Yeah, I think he's distorting the actual conversation. I don't know if anybody is saying that he made his career on Sandy Hook. No. More just that his actions in the avenue of his career, he profited by inflicting an immense pain on the people who experienced that tragedy.

So what's interesting here is that Alex has been dancing around actor ideas in terms of Sandy Hook. But now he's expressing that these kids are dead. He's not delivering the message to his audience that they're actors, but he's blaming the parents.

Some of that's possible, but if you want to look at it in the crassest way possible, like just like the most cynical approach, it's like this is market testing. Yeah, that's a good point. You can say A and B and see what the audience responds to more and then go with that.

And of course, one of the big sticking points for Joe not wanting to have Alex back on his show had been that he realized that Alex was lying even to him about what he said about Sandy Hook. Alex gave Joe the line that, like, oh, we just had debates. We just heard both sides. That sort of thing. And Joe, on his own show and past episodes, has made the point that one of the things that I had a problem with is that I heard the clips. I went back and I listened to stuff and I saw that Alex was lying to me about Sandy Hook. And so, right at the beginning of the show, they start discussing their fight a little bit and then get into, after this clip, the immediate elephant in the room that is Alex lied about Sandy Hook.

So when Hillary, a few months before the election, he leave a speech that says Alex Jones has a dark heart. He knows Sandy Hook kids died, but he says they didn't. And he sends people to their houses. He's the worst guy in the world.

The damage that I've done over and over and over again, that's not even really my fault. I was tricked. I was cajoled. I was all something that happened to me.

So now here's another thing: one thing that's super important to consider about Alex's protests that he didn't know how big his show was and that he had no idea he was hurting people is the fact that in late January 2013, Lenny Posner, the father of a victim at Sandy Hook, sent Alex an email. Lenny had been being harassed by conspiracy theorists already at that point, so he told Alex, Haven't we had our share of pain and suffering? I used to enjoy listening to your shows. Now I feel your type of show created these hateful people and they need to be reeled in. He was saying that in reference to the fact that he used to love listening to Alex. He was a fan of his show until it ruined his life.

In the same way, you can't duck the consequences of what you said about Sandy Hook. I don't care if you're saying it now. You did. You did then. And you had millions of listeners. You knew what kind of influence you were having on people. So it doesn't matter. Whatever you want to do now doesn't matter. The damage is done.

But then, in episode 1238 of his podcast, with guest Brian Redban, from February 4th of this year, Joe discusses how Alex is in a bad place, and that he still cares about him, but that Alex had lied to him. He talked about how Alex was lying to him about what he'd said in the past about Sandy Hook, and that Joe had seen all the videos. Of Alex saying that it was fake.

And then I started saying, you know, I think people died there because I was getting threatened by people that said nobody died and saying I was involved.

And he apparently claims that the mainstream media lies about him and he wants to start a dialogue directly with them, which is... Fucking no. That's abuse. That in and of itself is abusive to these families.