Welcome to Freezing Point
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All I do is smash heads, bro.
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Hey, everybody.
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Hello.
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Welcome back to Freezing Point.
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I'm Dan Freezing.
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Alongside me, I got my main man, my digger, my truth seeker, my fellow brain battler.
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Your partner in crime, in the war.
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For your mind.
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For your mind.
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Ladies and gentlemen, Marty DeRosa.
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Thank you, Dan.
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It's good to be here.
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It is.
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I want to make this statement.
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I didn't mention it yesterday because we're also, let's fucking pull down the curtain.
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We're recording this on the weekend.
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This feels weird.
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It is a little, I'm sorry.
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We've never recorded Saturday night.
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I don't think so, no.
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And it's strange to admit it publicly on the show, but I want to say this.
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This Sunday, so that would be tomorrow from when we're recording.
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Yes.
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If Sami Zayn wins the Intercontinental Championship in the Fatal Four Way match, I'm getting a new theme song.
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Okay.
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If he's a champion, I've got to get rid of him.
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Okay.
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I think you're going to be waiting until SummerSlam.
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Okay.
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It's possible, but I just want to make that clear.
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I feel like once he has a belt, we've got to.
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I love you, Sammy.
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I know you're probably listening.
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Sure.
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He's a big pointer sister.
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Yeah, he's a pointer sister from way back when.
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But I think, not to get too wrestling, but I think the story is going to be he's going to win that at SummerSlam, and it's going to be real cool.
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Do you think, yeah, I mean, who?
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I think KO's walking out with it.
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You think so?
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I think so.
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All right, we got a prediction here.
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I got another prediction.
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Yeah.
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It's another episode.
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That's what they want you to think here.
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That's why we're sitting here in the studio on this Saturday night.
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I'd like to thank everybody for all the rave reviews.
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Holy shit.
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Of the Alyssa Lamb episode.
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We freaked some people out.
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Inundated with tweets and emails from people about.
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We touched a nerve.
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And I think we helped push that conspiracy theory out into the world.
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I think we helped.
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I know that there are a lot of people who were like, I vaguely remember hearing about that.
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I mentioned this.
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Dave from Texas, a friend, he mentioned that he also thought it happened in like 2008.
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Yeah.
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So we might have found another Berenstein Bear time slip thing.
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And I know a lot of people were either at work and were like, holy shit.
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And coworkers were like, what are you watching?
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And they would show them the video.
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And then multiple people at work were listening to the podcast.
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I had people who were saying, like, far out wrote that he was in his car listening and being like, good morning.
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Night driving.
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Yeah.
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I showed a girl.
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The video, and I thought, I am blowing this date.
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I am going to freak her out because I don't know if I've told.
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I think I might have even mentioned on that podcast, I was telling a girl one time about my favorite.
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All your cereal curves.
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And she was like, I need you to leave my apartment right now.
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You're being very weird.
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It's usually an indication of this date ain't going well.
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Yeah.
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To a lady, especially if you don't know someone well, being like, you know what I like?
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I like this guy who likes to skin people.
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Yeah, I know.
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But what I think now is we gave a lot of the Pointer Sisters out there a new little.
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Ace up their sleeve when they're sitting around having those, you know, maybe smoke the little weeds.
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Sure, sure.
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And they're just sitting around going, I heard this, and well, I heard that, and they're going to go, You guys fuck with Alyssa Lamb.
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You guys know about cloaking technology?
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What?
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Oh, my God.
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Yeah, explaining cloaking technology to someone at three in the morning is very strange.
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After a weird pipe session.
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What's that?
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I don't know.
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I'm just trying to sound like a narc.
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Oh, whenever I talk about weed, I swear to God, I thought you meant sex.
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I'm like, that's weird.
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Yeah, a little pipe session.
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No, I always try and whenever I talk about weed, I say, like, you know, sex.
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Smoking grass.
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Sure.
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I just try and sound like a narc.
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Sure.
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Intentionally.
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Anyway, something that is not about narcing is this podcast, ladies and gentlemen.
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Welcome in to the second official installment of the third relaunch of That's What They Want You to Think.
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Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to That's What They Want You to Think.
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Close your eyes and open your third eye.
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We're about to tell you things you didn't think were possible.
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Because that's what they want you to think.
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Murder, mystery, people living on the moon.
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That's what they want you to think.
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Things are happening, cloak technology, murders.
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And there's an Illuminati always looking over your shoulder, listening, watching, checking out your emails, letting you think things because that's what they want you to think.
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I'm sorry.
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That's what I'm doing.
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I like how you had no rhyme scheme at all.
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No, no, that was real free formed.
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I imagine myself in a black leotard that comes up to my neck.
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And I was just dancing around as I was doing that.
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But you were also doing with your hand little, like trying to keep the beat, like little finger piano.
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I know.
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I know.
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Marty, today we're going to have another discussion that you have insisted.
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Insisted is the wrong word.
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This is inspired by you.
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You know, I felt this was also a companion piece with the Alyssa Lamb thing.
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And then, listen, guys, this is not going to be every week true crime.
The Boston Golf Crash Mystery
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No.
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This is not the murder podcast.
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This is not Dan and Marty's murder bull.
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I don't know why I want to say murder bull.
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I did too.
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Yeah, right?
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This isn't, you know, Dan and Marty's murder fiesta.
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No, no, no.
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But, you know, the first one had some sort of weird, it's hard to even call it conspiracy elements to it, but weird supernaturally kind of.
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Yes, and also I feel like this is a nice little prequel to what we were getting into with Alyssa Lamb.
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Mm hmm.
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Wait, this?
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This one today?
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Yeah.
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What are we talking about today?
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We're talking about the Black Dahlia.
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You're goddamn right, we are.
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Play the music.
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The Black Dahlia.
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She died for us to talk about.
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About.
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Then, just like some Limp Bizkit music kicks in.
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Yeah!
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Backdalia!
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Cut in half!
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90s radio!
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So, we, yeah, I just kind of was like, you know what?
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This is so close.
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Uh huh.
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I have some bad news.
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What?
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I did, in my research for this episode, your rationale for wanting to talk about it was that this also involved the Hotel Cecil.
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Yeah.
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Unfortunately, that is not true.
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I'm wrong?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Oh, you know what?
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Yeah, it was another hotel.
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That was baseless rumors.
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That were flying around because of the allure of the Richard Ramirez and all that stuff about the Hotel Seasaw.
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Strike one.
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People claimed that she had some connection or frequented that hotel.
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Okay.
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But there's no concrete evidence for that.
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Okay.
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There was another hotel that she got dropped off at and was seen last.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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That was, like, I think in San Diego or something like that.
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She was fucking around with that guy whose name was Red.
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We'll get into it.
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Yes.
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So, our girl.
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Our girl.
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Elizabeth Short.
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Elizabeth Short.
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I want to give a little bit of a background on her for everybody.
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She was born in Boston.
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Her name was Elizabeth Schorch, born in Boston in July 1924.
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She was the middle child of five sisters, all ladies in the family.
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Five sisters.
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Her dad was named Cleo Clem, something like that.
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I can't remember.
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It's not important.
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His job was he built mini golf courses.
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So awesome.
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Which seems like an awesome job, but also, what's the demand for it?
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I also feel like back then, that was the Halcyon days.
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You had no real TV to speak of.
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You barely had.
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You know, transit that would get you places easily.
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I feel like suburbs were being built.
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Yeah.
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White flight was beginning.
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All these suburbs, oh, God.
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And this guy East Coast, too.
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Oh, I guarantee this guy was just, like, knocking him out like this.
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Hand over fist on this town a lot.
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But see, here's the thing.
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It's like if you're in the East Coast, they were in Boston.
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Yeah.
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Mini golf courses are only viable half of the year.
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They are.
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So, I mean, you put one in in Boston.
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Yeah, unless you got an indoor one.
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It's a good point.
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Yeah, indoor golf course.
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Never really thought about that.
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I've only fucked around with outdoor mini golf courses.
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Not I.
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No?
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No, there's a great indoor golf course in Lombard, Illinois.
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Interesting.
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Yeah.
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I'll have to check it out.
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Unfortunately, 1929 happened.
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Right.
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And that was the stock market crash.
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And he ended up losing everything, getting very depressed, and he drove his car to a bridge and disappeared in 1930.
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That's what they want you to think.
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No, that actually really happened.
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That did happen.
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Everyone wanted to think that he'd committed suicide and jumped off the bridge.
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But it turned out a couple years later, he sent an apology letter to his family and said, Hey, I couldn't handle it.
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I'm sorry.
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I ran away to California.
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Yeah.
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And so that's a pretty fucked up life, you know?
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I feel like.
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She would have been five years old when the stock market crash happened.
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Two younger, two older sisters, single mom now, assuming that your dad is dead for a good bit of your childhood, only to find out that he's actually still alive.
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Very weird, but also something I think that without the advent of the internet and things like that, it was easier to slip away back then.
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Slip away!
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I mean, you know, people still do it to this day.
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Sure, you can disappear a little bit.
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You can absolutely disappear, and it happens, but I think back then, especially, you could go, you could start a new life somewhere.
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Sure.
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Documents for you, I think, was way easier.
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Oh, my God.
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You know, you can totally.
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All you needed, I think, was a magnifying glass, and you could forge any document you wanted.
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One of those little knives.
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Of course.
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Oh, a knife.
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Yeah, catch me if you can shit.
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Of course.
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Just carve it.
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Leo made it look very easy in that movie.
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That's what movies do.
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I mean, he took stickers off a plane and put it in a check and cashed it.
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That's pretty easy.
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Yeah.
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That's pretty awesome.
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So, in 1943, when she was 19 years old, Elizabeth Short, who I always wanted to call Elizabeth Smart, I do too.
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The whole time I kept going, Elizabeth Smart.
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Yeah.
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She was the girl who got kidnapped by that weird cult family in Utah.
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Yes.
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Elizabeth Short moved to Vallejo, California to live with her dad when she was 19 years old, but they naturally didn't get along.
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No.
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So they ended up fighting, and she ended up moving out of the house and moving to Santa Barbara.
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She got a job in a post office at Camp Cook Air Force Base.
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There, she met a bunch of fucking servicemen.
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Now, maybe got a taste for the servicemen.
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Are you insinuating that maybe by not having this father figure in her life?
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That she.
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She liked daddies?
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Well, I don't know about that.
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You know, there's definitely, and from my research, there was a woman on one documentary I was watching, and she's like, you know, this was kind of the arrangement back then.
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A woman would spend some time with a gal.
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You'd put her up in an apartment or pay for her food or things like that, and it was kind of just like a little agreement.
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There was an understanding.
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There really was.
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A gentleman would have with easy, virtued women.
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And they would have kind of the side girl.
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Mm hmm.
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You know?
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Oh.
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And it would be déclasse to talk about it.
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Absolutely.
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So, no, like, there would be open secrets within marriages and stuff like that.
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It sounded like that.
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And it sounded like, you know, you'd get them an apartment.
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You'd get them, you know, a lot of these girls didn't work.
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No.
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You get them an apartment.
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Or they worked in minimal ways at clubs or, you know, you walk around with, you're a cigarette girl or something like that.
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Yeah.
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Which I don't want to impugn cigarette girls.
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God bless you.
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But, believe me, they were very beautiful.
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I watched a lot of those Scorsese movies.
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It's hard to walk around.
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Yeah.
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And then, and then because the vibe I got was kind of like, She bounced around.
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Yes.
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And it did seem like there was a bit of that.
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Okay, and there might be a reason why.
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Which I don't want to, like, and even we'll get deeper into that, but as much as we may talk about that, judgment free.
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Judgment free.
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Not calling anyone's sexual or promiscuous choices bad or anything.
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Right.
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Totally fine.
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It's not what we're doing.
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Especially by the morality of today.
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That, yes.
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Totally cool.
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Back then, even, I wouldn't give a shit.
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We're also looking at the lifestyles of yesteryear with today's eyes.
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Yeah.
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So when she's in Santa Barbara, she's 19 years old.
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She ends up getting popped for a minor in possession charge.
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She's drinking booze underage and gets sent to juvenile court.
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At the juvenile court, the judge says, Well, we got to send you back to Boston to your mom, which is a crazy thing for a court to say.
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I know.
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But I guess it's like that or go to juvie or something like that.
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And so, like, well, I'll just leave Santa Barbara.
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So she's going to go back to Boston, but instead decides she's going to go fuck around to Florida.
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Because when she was younger, she had asthma and some other conditions.
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She had a lot of other conditions when she was younger.
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And she had a hard time with the Boston winters.
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So she had a history from her teenage years of going to Florida for the winter.
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So she had an established relationship with Florida.
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She decides to go there after juvenile court.
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Juvenile court.
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There she meets Major Matthew Michael Gordon Jr., who is another Air Force gentleman in the war.
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And she tells friends that he had written her a letter to propose marriage and that she had accepted, but then he ends up dying in a plane crash in August of 1945 in the war.
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And so she's just like, fuck it, I'm going back to California.
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And in July 1946.
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She goes back to California.
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Six months later, she is murdered.
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She is.
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Straight up murdered.
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Now, that's just my backstory.
► 00:13:23
That's just a fun little backstory.
► 00:13:25
Yeah.
► 00:13:27
Doing the research you did, what was the vibe you got about her?
► 00:13:31
Did you get kind of a uniform vibe of her?
► 00:13:35
It's hard to say because you're taking in a lot of different sources.
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Yeah.
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And a lot of people seem to have very different angles.
► 00:13:42
Sure, because sometimes it's focused on her, sometimes she's so insignificant.
► 00:13:47
It's just like, but it's all about the murder and it's all about, you know, this and that.
► 00:13:51
She's almost an object.
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It really almost is an object.
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And then, I mean, and I guess I could see where they could tend to do this because of the way she was murdered and displayed and all this stuff.
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And treated in the media.
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And treated in the media.
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And, uh.
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When you're called the something.
► 00:14:08
Yeah.
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That really dehumanizes in some way.
► 00:14:10
That's exactly what I was going to say.
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It dehumanizes you.
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And when you, it was kind of weird when you start hearing her name and you're like, oh, yeah, she has a name.
Shedding Trauma and Drag
00:09:26
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Mm hmm.
► 00:14:16
You know, and, and, uh, and some of the issues and things like that.
► 00:14:22
The sense that I got from her overwhelmingly was I felt like she wasn't a bad person.
► 00:14:33
That was the sort of like.
► 00:14:34
Did you get a little lost soul vibe?
► 00:14:36
Yeah, a little bit.
► 00:14:37
I mean, and maybe that's me projecting a little bit based on the childhood that we have, the description of that.
► 00:14:42
Yeah.
► 00:14:42
Like that would lead someone to be pretty wayward.
► 00:14:45
But then also the idea of being arrested for being drunk at 19 kind of leads me to believe you like to party a little bit.
► 00:14:52
Yeah.
► 00:14:52
Which, again, non judgmentally, I actually think that's pretty cool.
► 00:14:54
I mean, we're also talking about an era where if someone got pregnant and they weren't married, they had to move.
► 00:15:00
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:15:01
You know what I mean?
► 00:15:01
Like, you had to go in the woods and have your baby.
► 00:15:04
Now, you had to have a hill baby.
► 00:15:06
Oh, you had to go out in the.
► 00:15:07
Yeah, you had a shed out there, pregnant shed.
► 00:15:08
You got to go to the pregnant shed.
► 00:15:10
Also, and this is.
► 00:15:11
I don't know if you got this in your research, but one of the unfortunate products of her being ill as a kid was.
► 00:15:24
Her vagina was not fully developed or something like that.
► 00:15:27
She was unable to have.
► 00:15:28
This is also not true.
► 00:15:29
That's not true?
► 00:15:30
No.
► 00:15:31
Are you kidding me?
► 00:15:32
Well, there goes all my theories.
► 00:15:33
You got this.
► 00:15:34
I'm going to get out of here then.
► 00:15:35
I heard she could not have regular sex.
► 00:15:38
That's a persistent rumor that had been started that she had an undersized vagina.
► 00:15:43
Yeah.
► 00:15:44
And that was not true.
► 00:15:46
She did have some uterine issues.
► 00:15:48
Okay.
► 00:15:49
Which may have made it impossible for her to.
► 00:15:54
Carry a baby to term.
► 00:15:55
Sure.
► 00:15:55
Possibly, but in her autopsy, it was just described as, quote, female trouble.
► 00:16:01
Oh, nice.
► 00:16:02
I was going to say in her autopsy, the guy performing it went, Don't worry, everything works just fine.
► 00:16:07
And then drew a hand doing the okay symbol.
► 00:16:10
Yeah, that's that classic joke.
► 00:16:12
How does this get out there then?
► 00:16:13
Multiple sources said she could not have regular sex.
► 00:16:15
It's the same way that people put out the gerbil in the ass for Richard Gere and stuff like that.
► 00:16:21
It's these, whatever is the most titillating.
► 00:16:24
Next week on that, so they want you to think Richard Gere buttholed the gerbil.
► 00:16:27
I would honestly like to do an investigation of how that, everyone knows that.
► 00:16:31
Became a thing?
► 00:16:31
Yeah.
► 00:16:32
Like folklore, like Rod Stewart had to get his stomach.
► 00:16:34
Pumped because he had so much semen in it.
► 00:16:36
I want to know, but it'd be totally impossible.
► 00:16:38
Okay, so, motherfucker, how did I. Dan, I listened to so many podcasts.
► 00:16:43
Yes.
► 00:16:44
I watched so many YouTube videos.
► 00:16:46
But these are media forms that are incredulous.
► 00:16:49
I know.
► 00:16:49
They don't.
► 00:16:50
I watched the thing with Dan Rather.
► 00:16:52
Dan Rather?
► 00:16:54
Their vagina was.
► 00:16:55
Or not Dan Rather.
► 00:16:55
Yes, Dan.
► 00:16:56
No, not Dan Rather.
► 00:16:57
AJ Benza?
► 00:16:58
No, no, no.
► 00:16:58
Okay, I watched that one too.
► 00:17:00
The Black Dahlia.
► 00:17:01
AJ Benza.
► 00:17:02
Original gossip reporter.
► 00:17:03
Guys, we miss you, AJ.
► 00:17:05
Oh, man.
► 00:17:05
AJ Benza.
► 00:17:06
Shout out, Benza.
► 00:17:07
Never forget.
► 00:17:07
The fight with Stuttering John, he had on the Stern show.
► 00:17:09
AJ Benza, this old 90s, and it's so mid 90s.
► 00:17:13
He was an E, not true Hollywood story.
► 00:17:16
What was that?
► 00:17:16
No, that was just true Hollywood stories, right?
► 00:17:18
No, no, no.
► 00:17:19
E used to just have a gossip show, and it was much like TMZ, way ahead of their time with these gossip people, and they'd like cut to them, and they'd be in their office, and they'd be like, I'm AJ Benza here in New York, and boy, are people talking about Tom Selleck or whatever.
► 00:17:32
I don't know.
► 00:17:32
That guy seemed like an asshole.
► 00:17:34
Right, right, right.
► 00:17:35
Greaseback hair.
► 00:17:36
Yeah, just a real scuzzy guy.
► 00:17:38
But then.
► 00:17:39
It was a.
► 00:17:41
He hosted The Gossip Show.
► 00:17:46
Yeah, The Gossip Show.
► 00:17:47
And then Mysteries and Scandals.
► 00:17:49
That was another E show that he had.
► 00:17:51
I think it was E or maybe AE.
► 00:17:53
And then AJ After Hours.
► 00:17:55
Woo wee.
► 00:17:56
I think I watched all of these because he was on Stern, so I was in that.
► 00:17:59
If you're on Stern, I'll support you, Phase.
► 00:18:00
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:18:01
But yeah, this is basically him just walking around LA and being like, this was the last place she was seen, and then cut to a reenactment photo in black and white of a guy pushing a girl in an old TV.
► 00:18:11
Fog machines.
► 00:18:12
Okay, so, I mean, this is a good reason why we're doing this because it helps dispel some rumors and some myths.
► 00:18:19
It's debatable what female trouble means specifically, but the rumor that she had a tiny puss technically, the term is tiny puss.
► 00:18:29
Yeah, baby puss.
► 00:18:31
There's no evidence of that at all.
► 00:18:33
And affidavits and interviews with people who had had sex with her in the past indicated that that was not the case.
► 00:18:41
Okay.
► 00:18:42
And this is maybe the guy in me when they're like, Yeah, her vagina, she wasn't able to have sex.
► 00:18:46
So, a lot of guys threw her to the curb.
► 00:18:47
I'm like, there's still that butt.
► 00:18:49
Oh, come on, man.
► 00:18:49
Come on, girls, there's that butt.
► 00:18:50
I thought your angle was going to be different.
► 00:18:52
It's like, she has a tiny pussy.
► 00:18:53
Nah, I just got a big dick.
► 00:18:55
I know.
► 00:18:55
I thought you were going to be a little bit more decent.
► 00:18:57
Fellas, they call it a confidence builder.
► 00:18:59
Come on in here, Dahlia.
► 00:19:01
So, actually, yeah, that.
► 00:19:03
Let's get into the murder.
► 00:19:05
So, she was found in a vacant lot near the intersection of 39th and South Norton.
► 00:19:12
South Central.
► 00:19:13
Crenshaw?
► 00:19:14
I don't know.
► 00:19:15
I don't think it's Crenshaw.
► 00:19:17
I don't know.
► 00:19:17
I also don't know LA well enough to discuss even what that means.
► 00:19:21
I believe it's South Central.
► 00:19:22
It wasn't a totally developed area.
► 00:19:24
Not at all.
► 00:19:25
And the woman who came upon it was a lady who was walking around with her baby.
► 00:19:29
Yeah.
► 00:19:30
And pushing the baby in the stroller and thought it was a mannequin.
► 00:19:33
She thought it was a disposed store mannequin.
► 00:19:36
But then was like, oh shit.
► 00:19:37
It was not.
► 00:19:39
She was found.
► 00:19:40
There were houses nearby.
► 00:19:42
It wasn't like an empty field or anything like that.
► 00:19:45
No, it was a developing area.
► 00:19:46
Yes.
► 00:19:47
But this happened to be a vacant lot.
► 00:19:49
On it.
► 00:19:50
When this lady found the body, she called it in, and some photographers came, and then the police showed up, and they found that her body had been thoroughly washed.
► 00:20:01
It had been cut in half around the waist between the second and third lumbar.
► 00:20:07
So someone knew what they were doing?
► 00:20:08
Yes.
► 00:20:09
This gets into the suspect list.
► 00:20:11
She had been drained of all her blood.
► 00:20:13
This is that's.
► 00:20:14
Exsanguinated, as they call it.
► 00:20:16
Wild.
► 00:20:17
It had been given the Chelsea smile.
► 00:20:19
Yeah.
► 00:20:20
Which is the Joker smile where you cut.
► 00:20:22
From the lip up to the ear to create a very bizarre smile on a face.
► 00:20:26
Heath Ledger might have borrowed some of that with his rendition of the Joker.
► 00:20:32
And in theory, her body had been posed the two halves.
► 00:20:36
Yeah.
► 00:20:36
And the reason that I say in theory is that I did look at these pictures.
► 00:20:40
Yes.
► 00:20:41
Which I didn't want to do.
► 00:20:42
I saw them at the Museum of Death in LA.
► 00:20:44
We talked about that last time.
► 00:20:45
Very graphic.
► 00:20:46
They're graphic, but it also doesn't seem real.
► 00:20:48
I'm not as horrified by it as I thought I would be.
► 00:20:50
And they're black and white.
► 00:20:51
That helps.
► 00:20:52
That helps.
► 00:20:52
But the positioning of the body.
► 00:20:55
Is such that the two halves are close by each other, but a little bit separate.
► 00:21:00
Yes.
► 00:21:00
And her top half, her arms are in the air, or up above her head.
► 00:21:04
Right, but she doesn't care.
► 00:21:05
Right.
► 00:21:06
About being murdered.
► 00:21:07
Assume she cared a little.
► 00:21:08
Her arms are there, and people say that the angles that her arms are at mean something, or something along those lines, and that her legs were open.
► 00:21:16
Do you?
► 00:21:16
Now, go ahead.
► 00:21:18
No, no, go.
► 00:21:19
My feeling on it is it's possible that that was posing.
► 00:21:22
Yeah.
► 00:21:22
Or if someone was trying to carry the body, or trying to drag the body.
► 00:21:28
You would drag it by the arms.
► 00:21:30
Yeah.
► 00:21:31
You know, I mean, like.
► 00:21:32
But here's what I'm saying, though.
► 00:21:33
That half, it's not that heavy.
► 00:21:36
I don't think you'd have to drag it.
► 00:21:37
If it was the full body, I could see that being the case.
► 00:21:39
Which may be a rationale for why she was cut in half, also.
► 00:21:43
Maybe.
► 00:21:43
Could be a smaller person who couldn't carry the whole body.
► 00:21:46
Or an older man.
► 00:21:47
Right.
► 00:21:47
Some may say.
► 00:21:48
Some may say.
► 00:21:49
Any of these things are conceivable, non spooky explanations.
► 00:21:54
Right.
► 00:21:54
Do you have.
► 00:21:56
And this is hard to.
► 00:21:57
I'm just going to throw some stuff out at you.
► 00:21:58
Sure.
► 00:21:58
If you've got this as a suspect or something like that, let's get to that.
► 00:22:02
Uh, Did you come across any research where this might have been life imitating art?
► 00:22:09
Huh.
► 00:22:09
Are you familiar with the artist Man Ray?
► 00:22:12
No.
► 00:22:12
What's this one?
► 00:22:14
Oh, wait, wait.
► 00:22:14
I think I know what you're talking about, but go ahead.
► 00:22:16
There's a theory where one of our suspects, which I guarantee we're going to get into, had a friend who was an artist, a surrealist named Man Ray, who has a lot of art where the mouth thing and the body sort of being in half.
► 00:22:35
And the arm thing, and it was very similar to that.
► 00:22:40
I think I know who you're talking about.
► 00:22:42
Yeah.
► 00:22:42
I didn't find that to be all that compelling.
► 00:22:45
Okay.
► 00:22:46
He's my number one.
► 00:22:47
Man Ray?
► 00:22:48
No, no, no.
► 00:22:48
Man Ray's friend is my number one.
► 00:22:50
Okay.
► 00:22:50
Well, let's talk about that when we get into the subject.
► 00:22:52
Absolutely.
► 00:22:52
Because we're going to have to break all that down pretty extensively.
► 00:22:57
She suffered head trauma, but no fracturing of the skull.
► 00:23:00
Okay.
► 00:23:01
Which is interesting.
► 00:23:01
Can I ask you?
► 00:23:02
Yeah.
► 00:23:03
I don't want to jump ahead, but how do you think she died?
► 00:23:08
Do you think she was like suffocated, choked?
► 00:23:09
Well, the official report.
► 00:23:12
Someone fucked that tiny pussy to death?
► 00:23:14
Come on.
► 00:23:15
I'm so sorry.
► 00:23:15
I couldn't help myself.
► 00:23:17
We, you know what?
► 00:23:18
Sometimes when you're talking about the darkest of things, you got to bring some tiny pussy humor in for levity.
► 00:23:22
That's why I'm here, guys.
► 00:23:23
I'm the wacky second mic guy.
► 00:23:24
The official report said the cause of death was hemorrhaging from the cuts on her face.
► 00:23:29
Wow.
► 00:23:30
And from shock due to blunt force trauma to the head.
► 00:23:33
Holy fuck.
► 00:23:34
So the thing that's weird about that is the blunt force trauma to the head would not have been strong enough to fracture her skull, but it would have been hard enough.
Scary Moments of Bleeding
00:02:50
► 00:23:43
To cause shock upon death, which is interesting.
► 00:23:46
Like, it would be a very specific kind of amount of pressure that would be involved.
► 00:23:51
And then, on top of that, think about that.
► 00:23:54
Your cause of death, one of them is bleeding out of the face.
► 00:23:57
Fuck, I hate that.
► 00:23:58
See, this is another thing, too, when you read about this or you see it or you hear it and you see the videos and you watch these documentaries, but then it's like, okay, but still, she had to die.
► 00:24:07
Yeah.
► 00:24:08
It didn't just happen.
► 00:24:09
No.
► 00:24:09
It wasn't like, and now you're dead, you're cut in half, your face is cut.
► 00:24:13
And the idea of that's how she died is just like, goddamn.
► 00:24:18
Yeah, something that I can never get away from is the.
► 00:24:22
I would call it the banal moments of these types of stories.
► 00:24:26
Like, for the Alyssa Lamb thing, one of the things that fucked me up the most was the thought of her in the tank when she realizes.
► 00:24:33
Like, because she has to be alive when she realizes, I'm not getting out of this tank.
► 00:24:36
I know.
► 00:24:36
And so, like, that moment in your head when, like, death is imminent or something like that is so scary to me.
► 00:24:42
And the thought of, like, I mean, who knows?
► 00:24:44
If you're in shock, you're not thinking clearly necessarily.
► 00:24:47
But just, like, I'm bleeding profusely from my face.
► 00:24:50
I went even further back on this.
► 00:24:52
As I was listening to this, uhm, my, the YouTube channel or whatever, the YouTube video I was watching, the next thing it did was it went to some Ted Bundy, a Ted Bundy video, and it was describing how he would like, charm these women and then be like, and then kill, and it's just like that idea of like, and I, obviously I think this might have happened with her where she's just like, oh, I'm on a date with this guy or whatever, and then all of a sudden it takes a turn.
► 00:25:16
And that to me is just like, that is frightening where you're just like, oh boy, this is turning into my murder.
► 00:25:24
I mean, it's bad enough whenever you're out with somebody and then they're like, I like Trump or something like that.
► 00:25:29
That's bad enough.
► 00:25:30
But then when it's like, oh no, murder is happening.
► 00:25:32
Yeah.
► 00:25:33
And I mean, it's a whole nother level.
► 00:25:34
To me, that's just like, and then, goddamn, this idea of, yeah, you take a hit to the head and then all of a sudden somebody's cutting your face and you're just like, what?
► 00:25:43
I mean, that is.
► 00:25:44
Something that's super scary about life, too, is that there are tons of instances.
► 00:25:49
I mean, we've even probably gone through some of them ourselves and thankfully come out the other end.
► 00:25:53
But there's sometimes when it's almost impossible to tell if the train has gone too far.
► 00:25:58
Like, you know, is this possible to stop?
► 00:26:01
Yeah.
► 00:26:02
Like, you know what I mean?
► 00:26:02
Like, when you're in a situation and it's like, if I imagine being a young lady and being on a date with someone who may or may not murder me, right?
► 00:26:10
Or something like that, it's like, I probably may not run away immediately.
► 00:26:15
Yeah.
► 00:26:15
I might be like, I'm going to bide my time until I'm at a restaurant and then I can escape or something like that.
► 00:26:20
Somewhere where I'm in public where I can make an easier exit, you know, like, hoping that by that point it's not too late to run away or something like that.
► 00:26:27
You know, like, that kind of.
► 00:26:30
I know.
► 00:26:30
Horrible.
► 00:26:32
And also, too.
How Long to Bleed Out
00:09:43
► 00:26:33
Horrible thoughts.
► 00:26:33
And I don't know how they can tell this or whatever, but when they're releasing the information of a murder and they're like, they did this to them or this to them, they were still alive when they did this.
► 00:26:47
And you're just like, oh, God.
► 00:26:48
I don't know how they know that.
► 00:26:49
You can tell based on how the body reacts.
► 00:26:52
In terms of if it's stabbing or sexual stuff, generally you can tell by whether the body starts bleeding.
► 00:27:02
By stab wounds and how the clotting reacts, things like that.
► 00:27:06
Also, strangulation and stuff like that has to do with the way that a living body bruises differently than a dead body.
► 00:27:13
So, a lot of that stuff you can figure out scientifically, but it does make it worse to hear about.
► 00:27:19
It does.
► 00:27:19
And any time, I mean, murder is always horrific, but any time there are these extra things of like, you know, why this was done or precision in a murder.
► 00:27:32
You know, and when you're looking back at like Jack the Ripper, stuff like that.
► 00:27:37
Which I'd love to tackle down the road.
► 00:27:38
Who might be an Illuminati plant?
► 00:27:40
You mean fucking.
► 00:27:42
Might?
► 00:27:42
Yeah, okay, damn, might.
► 00:27:44
It was all a cover for rituals.
► 00:27:45
Get the fuck out of here.
► 00:27:46
But when there is that whole idea of, you know, like whoever did this really knew what they were doing.
► 00:27:53
Precision implies talent.
► 00:27:54
Right.
► 00:27:54
And that's where you start getting a lot of doctors or people who worked in a morgue and all this stuff.
► 00:28:02
Like, then you start getting them thrown into the mix.
► 00:28:05
In my mind, it's almost impossible to get away from that conclusion.
► 00:28:09
Yeah.
► 00:28:09
That whoever is responsible for this crime had at least some skill set.
► 00:28:15
At least.
► 00:28:17
A butcher's understanding of cutting meat, and at most a doctor.
► 00:28:20
Right.
► 00:28:21
And that's like with the Jack the Ripper thing, which is like people were like, oh, it was a doctor.
► 00:28:25
It was this and that.
► 00:28:26
But then someone was like, or it was just a butcher.
► 00:28:28
You would have the pretty much same understanding of where bones were.
► 00:28:32
And I think if you had the skills of a butcher and you just read a book on the human body, you could figure it out pretty quickly.
► 00:28:38
Yeah.
► 00:28:39
And then, and also to me, I mean, obviously, if you do this to somebody, you're out of your mind.
► 00:28:43
Yeah, conceivably.
► 00:28:44
But like, imagine, I mean, like, do these people just drop this body off?
► 00:28:50
Or, person, drop this body off and then just like go get breakfast at a diner.
► 00:28:55
Probably.
► 00:28:56
That's insane to me.
► 00:28:57
Well, one thing that we're going to get into a ton is that I think a lot of people compartmentalize.
► 00:29:02
I think a lot of people have a feeling of like, no, that wasn't me.
► 00:29:06
That was my alter ego.
► 00:29:07
That sort of thing.
► 00:29:09
I think that there are some suspects that we'll discuss who had sort of.
► 00:29:15
We'll get into it.
► 00:29:15
Sure.
► 00:29:15
Anyway, the reason she's called the Black Dahlia is because when they found the body, She was undi.
► 00:29:21
You couldn't identify her.
► 00:29:22
She was nude.
► 00:29:24
There was no information about her.
► 00:29:26
And so the newspapers caught wind of it and they started calling her the Black Dahlia after the 1946 noir film The Blue Dahlia that had just come out and was very popular.
► 00:29:36
And the Blue Dahlia in the movie is a location, which is weird to me.
► 00:29:41
It's a club.
► 00:29:42
See, I read a thing that said she used to walk around her neighborhood with the Dahlia flower in her hair.
► 00:29:46
That's entirely possible, too.
► 00:29:47
Yeah.
► 00:29:48
I mean, I love how there's so much weird information out there.
► 00:29:51
It's not impossible that she loved the Dahlia flower.
► 00:29:54
Okay.
► 00:29:54
Okay.
► 00:29:54
It's possible.
► 00:29:55
Okay.
► 00:29:56
But the newspapers were basing it off of this movie, this noir movie by Raymond Chandler that was just.
► 00:30:04
There's very little to do with the actual case.
► 00:30:07
Right.
► 00:30:07
But I guess it was a sort of.
► 00:30:08
Not like Dark Waters last week.
► 00:30:10
No, no.
► 00:30:10
That was crazy.
► 00:30:11
That was crazy.
► 00:30:12
This is interesting in the sense that it is about a young woman who's involved with army men.
► 00:30:17
That's true in the Blue Dahlia movie.
► 00:30:18
Yes.
► 00:30:19
Also, the young woman is killed.
► 00:30:21
And the young woman has a young child that she lost.
► 00:30:24
Okay.
► 00:30:25
Which is a theoretical parallel to.
► 00:30:27
To Elizabeth Short.
► 00:30:28
Yeah.
► 00:30:28
Because there are a bunch of reports that she would tell men that she had a young child that she had lost.
► 00:30:34
Oh.
► 00:30:34
Which was found to be not true.
► 00:30:36
Yeah.
► 00:30:36
She would lie to men about having lost a child, which is a strange thing to lie about, I suppose.
► 00:30:42
And it's even stranger that it sort of connects with the movie that her nickname is based on.
► 00:30:48
And I. One theory that I heard was she was pregnant and that needed to be taken care of.
► 00:30:55
Mm hmm.
► 00:30:56
Well, she was definitely not pregnant when she died.
► 00:30:58
Right.
► 00:30:58
That we know.
► 00:30:59
Right.
► 00:31:00
But.
► 00:31:01
How long does it take to bleed someone out?
► 00:31:02
But you know what?
► 00:31:03
What?
► 00:31:03
Female trouble could mean anything.
► 00:31:05
Yeah.
► 00:31:06
It would not be a pregnancy, but it could mean.
► 00:31:09
How?
► 00:31:09
It could mean a very poorly done termination of a pregnancy.
► 00:31:13
Could be.
► 00:31:13
Had caused some sort of scarring.
► 00:31:15
Could be.
► 00:31:15
Something, who knows?
► 00:31:17
How long would it take to bleed someone out?
► 00:31:23
I don't know.
► 00:31:25
Let's call my doctor for that.
► 00:31:25
This is a weird thing.
► 00:31:27
I don't know why I thought this all.
► 00:31:29
Did this all happen in one night?
► 00:31:30
Do they think it all happened in one night?
► 00:31:31
They do not.
► 00:31:32
But actually, let's get some actual doctor information.
► 00:31:35
Are you kidding?
► 00:31:36
Let's see if he answers the phone.
► 00:31:37
Oh, shit.
► 00:31:37
Yeah, this is crazy.
► 00:31:39
I didn't realize.
► 00:31:39
Oh, we have access to a doctor.
► 00:31:41
Oh, my God.
► 00:31:41
I love this.
► 00:31:43
I'm going to guess he's not going to answer the phone, and hopefully he doesn't identify himself.
► 00:31:46
Hope he's not with a child eating dinner or something, and we're just like, how does a phone just take a body to bleed out?
► 00:31:50
I texted him earlier today, so there's a decent chance.
► 00:31:54
No, no, not about that.
► 00:31:55
But some other stupid question I had.
► 00:31:58
I like to check in with him and ask about just dumb fucking questions.
► 00:32:03
I one time asked him why humans can't do photosynthesis.
► 00:32:06
He got really mad at me.
► 00:32:09
We're cool.
► 00:32:11
It's been forwarded.
► 00:32:12
God damn it.
► 00:32:14
Hey, Dan Friesen here.
► 00:32:16
So, uh, what's going on here is, uh, we tried to call my friend Dr. Gums on the, on the conspiracy theory, uh, show here about the Black Dahlia, but he did not answer the phone.
► 00:32:26
However, uh, immediately after when I was recording a different podcast, uh, which you would have heard yesterday on, on Friesen Point, he ended up calling, uh, while we were recording, and so we took that opportunity to field the call, and while Marty wasn't there, I did still want to get his opinion on our medical question.
► 00:32:45
So, here, I will now drop in the phone call that I had, uh, with my friend Dr. Gums, uh, along with Dan Drees and our guest Joe McMahon were there as well, uh, where we talk a little bit about the medical implications and, uh, his feelings about how long it would take someone to bleed out from the face.
► 00:33:03
Oh, we got a call coming in.
► 00:33:07
We do?
► 00:33:08
Yep.
► 00:33:08
Let's answer.
► 00:33:09
You're on the air.
► 00:33:12
Hey man, how's it going?
► 00:33:12
Not bad.
► 00:33:13
We got Dr. Gums on the line, my doctor friend.
► 00:33:17
I didn't realize I was going to be on the air.
► 00:33:20
I was just returning your phone call from yesterday.
► 00:33:22
Yeah, I did call you yesterday.
► 00:33:24
This is going to be weird because I tried to call you on a podcast that I recorded yesterday that will air tomorrow.
► 00:33:30
So there's a weird time shift.
► 00:33:32
Anyway, I was trying to ask you how long it would take someone to bleed out from the face.
► 00:33:40
To bleed out from the face.
► 00:33:42
Yeah, as a doctor.
► 00:33:47
From like a minor laceration, they got a cut on their neck near their carotid.
► 00:33:50
What are we talking about?
► 00:33:51
Let's say someone got a punch in the nose, fracture of the orbit.
► 00:33:54
What are we talking about?
► 00:33:55
Something closer to like the Chelsea smile.
► 00:33:59
I have no idea what that is.
► 00:34:00
That's like the Joker smile.
► 00:34:02
You know, that like cut from the lip up to the ear on your cheek.
► 00:34:06
Dude, you asked me the most ridiculous question.
► 00:34:09
That's true.
► 00:34:10
And I'm so embarrassed.
► 00:34:12
You know, like, I don't know.
► 00:34:13
I would say, you know, there aren't too many major vessels right there.
► 00:34:16
I mean, you would clot before you just bled to death unless you were like anticoagulated.
► 00:34:21
And you get cut up and you bleed out.
► 00:34:24
You'd clot, Dan.
► 00:34:27
Seems like you're wasting Dr. Gum's time with this question.
► 00:34:29
He seems unspent.
► 00:34:31
Well, we were discussing the Black Dahlia murder, and the cause of death that was listed on the coroner's report was hemorrhaging from the face.
► 00:34:42
Interesting.
► 00:34:43
Is that the kind of cut that she had, or the victim had, or whatever?
► 00:34:46
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:34:46
She had the Chelsea or Glasgow smile, as they call it.
► 00:34:51
And the cause of death was determined to be.
► 00:34:53
Hemorrhagic, like she bled out.
► 00:34:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what they were saying.
► 00:34:58
That's really weird, man.
► 00:34:59
I mean, unless it was like a super deep cut, I would assume you would clot off, you know, eventually.
► 00:35:03
Let's assume it was pretty deep.
► 00:35:08
This is based on no evidence based medicine or any journals or anything like that, but I would assume if, you know, I mean, we have about, what, six to eight liters of blood circulating in our body at a time, right?
► 00:35:19
Sounds good to me.
► 00:35:20
I've got three, full disclosure.
► 00:35:23
I don't know why you're asking me.
► 00:35:24
I'm a high school dropout.
► 00:35:25
You're a doctor.
► 00:35:28
It's a little more of a rhetorical question.
► 00:35:30
Therefore, like we have six to eight liters in the body, right?
► 00:35:33
Yeah.
► 00:35:33
So I would assume, you know, people go into shock when they lose about, you know, two to three liters acutely.
► 00:35:39
So if you blow it out, I don't know.
► 00:35:42
I don't know.
► 00:35:42
I would say maybe 30 minutes to an hour.
► 00:35:45
You know, you die if you blood that profusely.
► 00:35:47
Yeah.
► 00:35:48
That's a long time.
► 00:35:50
It's a pretty long time to have a pretty bad cut.
► 00:35:52
It's like an episode of Silicon Valley.
► 00:35:54
You're just bleeding through it.
► 00:35:58
That's a good comparison, a good relative time comparison there.
► 00:36:02
Yeah.
► 00:36:02
An episode of Silicon Valley.
► 00:36:03
I think that's how they measure things in Sin, by the way.
► 00:36:06
Whenever we do evidence based studies, we put an episode of Silicon Valley on.
► 00:36:11
I think that's smart and a way to keep the youth interested in science and medicine.
Bribes, Ether, and Certificates
00:15:12
► 00:36:17
Alright, well, maybe he'll call back and we'll figure it out.
► 00:36:19
I don't know, but it seems like it would be a while.
► 00:36:21
Do you think this happened in one night?
► 00:36:24
Do I think the murder and the exsanguination and everything happened in one night?
► 00:36:29
Yeah.
► 00:36:31
I would have to say no.
► 00:36:32
There was at least a week or so where she was unaccounted for.
► 00:36:37
Yeah.
► 00:36:37
So there is the possibility that she was Yeah, I don't know why I felt like at first I'm like, oh, this must have happened one crazy night.
► 00:36:46
One wild.
► 00:36:47
Boy, that night got away from us, guys.
► 00:36:49
Yeah, it does.
► 00:36:50
Well, I mean, because I think that's how most murders seem to be.
► 00:36:52
And.
► 00:36:53
There's a very limited time that it happens on.
► 00:36:55
Boy, oh, boy.
► 00:36:56
So, eight days after she's found, on January 23rd, 1947, the newspaper, the LA Examiner, gets a call from someone claiming to be the murderer.
► 00:37:08
Yes.
► 00:37:09
And he's like, hey, you guys are fucking assholes.
► 00:37:12
Why aren't you still talking about this murder?
► 00:37:14
I am pissed off that you are not covering it the way you're supposed to.
► 00:37:18
Which is what ended up getting the BTK captured his own hubris.
► 00:37:23
Well, yeah, like 30 years later.
► 00:37:24
I know.
► 00:37:25
But not feeling like he was getting the press he should have gotten and being in the league with the elite serial killers.
► 00:37:30
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:37:30
He's like, I'm up there.
► 00:37:31
I'm varsity.
► 00:37:32
Yeah.
► 00:37:33
So this dude is mad about that.
► 00:37:35
And the next day, a package arrives that has her birth certificate in it, photos, business cards, and an address book.
► 00:37:44
In it that belongs to someone named Mark Hansen.
► 00:37:49
His name is embossed on it.
► 00:37:50
It is his.
► 00:37:51
Okay.
► 00:37:52
He claims that Elizabeth Short had taken it from him and was using it as her own.
► 00:37:57
But this, all these personal effects and things are sent to the LA Examiner and it's signed the Black Dahlia Avenger.
► 00:38:07
Yeah.
► 00:38:08
Which is fucking creepy.
► 00:38:09
Very creepy.
► 00:38:10
Anytime you have a name, it's like, oh boy.
► 00:38:13
Yeah.
► 00:38:13
And then when the supposed murderer.
► 00:38:16
Embraces that name.
► 00:38:18
It's on hashtag brand.
► 00:38:20
Right, right, right.
► 00:38:20
And you're just like, ooh, I like that.
► 00:38:22
The Black Dahlia Avenger.
► 00:38:24
So, does this say anything specific to you, like this package being sent to the police?
► 00:38:31
I would, especially if I'm the police too, I kind of feel like you have to take everything with a grain of salt that you get.
► 00:38:39
And then, didn't the police also get some postcards saying that I'm going to turn myself in on this day?
► 00:38:46
I think they got a lot of stuff.
► 00:38:47
Yeah.
► 00:38:47
I think there were a lot of people who pretended to be the killer.
► 00:38:51
They did.
► 00:38:51
And then I, because I saw a documentary where somebody claims to know who wrote those.
► 00:38:57
This amount of personal effects seems to me like it's legit.
► 00:39:01
I feel like they probably had a thing.
► 00:39:04
Well, the birth certificate to me also indicates you didn't pick somebody up off the street carrying their birth certificate.
► 00:39:10
No, no, no, no.
► 00:39:11
Yeah.
► 00:39:11
You were in their home.
► 00:39:12
You were in their home or you had access to their home.
► 00:39:14
Yeah.
► 00:39:14
At some point.
► 00:39:15
Because no one carries their fucking birth certificate around.
► 00:39:17
And this is also one of those situations where, you know, and I'm sure this happens a lot with.
► 00:39:23
Crime or whatever, where you're just like, I don't know who the fuck that is.
► 00:39:27
And then they're like, dude.
► 00:39:28
Like, I've seen so many datelines like this where you're just like, Dan, do you know that woman who's missing?
► 00:39:33
And you're like, nope.
► 00:39:34
And they're like, Dan, we know you know her.
► 00:39:37
And you're like, look, I just didn't want my wife to know I was having an affair.
► 00:39:39
That stuff happens a lot too.
► 00:39:41
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:39:41
And I think there's probably a good amount of that as it relates to this case.
► 00:39:46
So, you know, you get all this shit.
► 00:39:49
And obviously, the clue that sticks out the most there is that fucking address book.
► 00:39:54
Yeah.
► 00:39:54
It's got the fucking dude's name on it.
► 00:39:56
Yep.
► 00:39:57
So, Mark Hansen becomes the first main suspect.
► 00:40:04
It turns out that this gentleman owns a club, owns a nightclub.
► 00:40:08
It's all starting to make sense.
► 00:40:09
He's real rich.
► 00:40:11
He's married.
► 00:40:11
He's a 55 year old dude.
► 00:40:13
Likes to get around, likes to swing some dick.
► 00:40:15
I love how a lot of these guys and, and like, known, known stud, known, known fucker.
► 00:40:24
Yeah, but it's great too because a lot of them, if you see the pictures of them or even hear people's descriptions, it's like, he didn't, he looked real boring, but he liked to fuck.
► 00:40:32
But oh man, did he like to fuck?
► 00:40:34
He was rich and he loved young girls.
► 00:40:36
Oh boy.
► 00:40:37
Yeah, it seems like LA in the 40s was full of that dude.
► 00:40:40
I feel like LA.
► 00:40:41
He was lousy with those dudes.
► 00:40:42
Yeah, LA in the 40s, if you looked like, Kevin from The Office, but you had money.
► 00:40:48
Kevin from The Office has been my new thing for so many people.
► 00:40:50
Sure, it's a good reference.
► 00:40:51
Kevin from The Office.
► 00:40:52
You were a planned, unattractive guy.
► 00:40:53
But you owned a nightclub, or you had a car dealership and you were a man about town.
► 00:40:59
You could get fucked a lot.
► 00:41:00
It seems like it's even before cocaine was really huge, too.
► 00:41:04
So it's not even like.
► 00:41:05
Just some good booze.
► 00:41:06
Yeah.
► 00:41:06
It's crazy.
► 00:41:07
Good booze.
► 00:41:08
Prohibition.
► 00:41:09
Oh, maybe.
► 00:41:10
Oh, what about, like, I don't know, ether?
► 00:41:13
You were doing ether back then?
► 00:41:15
I don't know.
► 00:41:15
Fuck yeah.
► 00:41:16
Hey, when the bar closes, we're going to do some ether.
► 00:41:18
You want to stay?
► 00:41:19
We got some rags back there.
► 00:41:20
Yeah.
► 00:41:21
Yeah.
► 00:41:22
So he was a gentleman who definitely did have a relation with Elizabeth in one way or another.
► 00:41:30
He had a house that he let people stay in, and he had boarders and what have you.
► 00:41:36
It's unclear whether she was a paying guest or just a guest.
► 00:41:41
We don't know if she paid rent.
► 00:41:43
Yeah.
► 00:41:44
But she stayed for, on one occasion, 10 days, and on one occasion, two weeks.
► 00:41:49
In the October and November before she died at his house.
► 00:41:52
Yeah.
► 00:41:52
So that's two, two and three months before respectively.
► 00:41:56
Uh, after the murder, Hanson, uh, Eric, or Mark Hanson, the guy who owned the club, he threatened to reveal how police accepted his bribes to allow, uh, mafia to hang out in his bar and like get away with stuff and all this shit, uh, if they didn't back off on their investigation.
► 00:42:13
And they backed off.
► 00:42:14
Yeah.
► 00:42:14
And I mean, this also brings in this whole, I mean, that really does.
► 00:42:18
It brings in this whole era of, A lot of filthy cops.
► 00:42:22
A lot of, if you had money, a city like Los Angeles was kind of your playground.
► 00:42:27
I mean, it's still kind of that cake.
► 00:42:29
You know what I mean?
► 00:42:29
Somewhat, yeah.
► 00:42:30
You know, it's one of those things where if you got money, you can kind of have people look the other way.
► 00:42:35
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:42:36
You get treated a different way when you have money.
► 00:42:38
This was when the mob still was the mob.
► 00:42:41
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:42:41
The mob.
► 00:42:42
The mob meant something for real.
► 00:42:44
It meant something.
► 00:42:45
And they were at specific bars just hanging out.
► 00:42:47
Just hanging out.
► 00:42:48
Known mob hangouts were a thing and speakeasies and all that stuff.
► 00:42:53
Yeah.
► 00:42:54
Bars with basements were always a little bit sketchy.
► 00:42:57
And I do like that idea of somebody just kind of being like, hey, back off.
► 00:43:04
And they're like, Sarge, we got to back off.
► 00:43:06
If you keep going with this investigation, I will tell them how you accepted my bribes.
► 00:43:10
Yeah.
► 00:43:10
And then that's the other thing, too, when it's all bribes and all this stuff, and it's, you know.
► 00:43:14
Now that looks bad.
► 00:43:16
But based on interviews and statements made by people who were familiar with him and with Elizabeth.
► 00:43:24
During their time knowing each other, it does not seem like he would be a suspect or a good suspect.
► 00:43:31
This is a very personal murder, it seems like.
► 00:43:37
Especially if someone's not doing this a bunch.
► 00:43:39
Like, if there was.
► 00:43:40
Right.
► 00:43:41
If this was this guy's MO and there was like 30 of them, he'd be like, all right, this is what this dude's into.
► 00:43:45
This is what he does.
► 00:43:46
Yeah.
► 00:43:47
This is, you know, there's a lot.
► 00:43:48
Also, too, I think from the very little I know about murders, but like when you're slicing up the face, it seems very personal.
► 00:43:57
Yay.
► 00:43:59
And then cutting in the half and all.
► 00:44:00
But like, I mean, it's just like you had some real rape.
► 00:44:04
And it's like one of those things where it'd be like, Yeah, he went fucking crazy one night.
► 00:44:10
Instead of selling cigarettes, she was sitting on this guy's lap, and he went crazy.
► 00:44:13
And there's no real story of that.
► 00:44:14
No, there really isn't.
► 00:44:15
From everybody who talked about it, they were probably fucking, probably involved somehow.
► 00:44:21
Sure.
► 00:44:21
And it seemed.
► 00:44:22
Anytime these guys have rooms that they let women stay in.
► 00:44:26
There's a reason.
► 00:44:27
I feel like there's a reason.
► 00:44:29
It's not generosity.
► 00:44:31
There are people who have indicated that they had feelings for each other.
► 00:44:35
It wasn't just like a.
► 00:44:37
Convenience situation, but he was also seeing other women too, and she was dating other dudes.
► 00:44:44
So the idea of like crazy jealousy doesn't really make sense.
► 00:44:48
Although, fuck, does he look good on paper?
► 00:44:50
I know.
► 00:44:51
He looks real good on paper.
► 00:44:52
There's a couple people that look pretty good on paper here.
► 00:44:54
So he gets off the hook.
► 00:44:56
All right.
► 00:44:56
And now the whole thing is wide fucking open.
► 00:44:59
Yeah.
► 00:44:59
Because that's the thing too, when it's not somebody, then it's like, shit, oh, well, it's not him.
► 00:45:05
That would have been a slam dunk.
► 00:45:06
And then also, time, as the more time goes by, You know, that show the first 48 ain't called the first 48 for nothing.
► 00:45:13
Nope.
► 00:45:13
If you don't solve a crime in the first 48 hours, a lot of times you ain't solving crimes.
► 00:45:18
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:45:18
Everything goes cold.
► 00:45:19
It's mad.
► 00:45:20
One of the things I read was during this time, for murder, for most police departments or whatever, there was like, I don't know if it was like a 50% or 75%.
► 00:45:39
No, 75%, that might be too high.
► 00:45:40
But basically, like, they solved 50% of murders to where now it's like, Way less.
► 00:45:46
10.
► 00:45:46
That's crazy.
► 00:45:47
That's something that I always think about.
► 00:45:49
It's like, if I ever committed a crime, you're goddamn right, I'm going to prison.
► 00:45:53
I'm bad at crime.
► 00:45:53
Well, but some people are good at crime.
► 00:45:55
Right.
► 00:45:55
That's the thing that freaks me out.
► 00:45:56
It's like, no, the reality is, if I did murder somebody, there's a good chance I'd get away with it.
► 00:46:01
I mean, think about.
► 00:46:02
Which is, I hate that thought.
► 00:46:03
Here's what I think about.
► 00:46:04
Think of how many people in this city of Chicago, which we live in, how many people have had their apartments broken into?
► 00:46:10
Tons.
► 00:46:11
And what do the cops basically say?
► 00:46:12
Eh, fuck it.
► 00:46:13
That's it?
► 00:46:13
Yeah.
► 00:46:14
I mean, murder, maybe it's a little different, but like, You kind of have to be real clumsy with a break-in in order to get arrested.
► 00:46:19
Right.
► 00:46:20
And one of the things that I was listening to an interview about this, and then they kind of started talking about those statistics versus today.
► 00:46:25
And he was like, first of all, back then, uh, it was a more, uh, person-to-person society.
► 00:46:30
We talked to each other more.
► 00:46:32
You knew your neighbors.
► 00:46:33
He said the cops had better, better, uh, communication skills, and like, that was the thing.
► 00:46:37
It was like, I know this neighborhood.
► 00:46:39
This is our neighborhood.
► 00:46:39
There was relationships.
► 00:46:40
There was relationships.
► 00:46:41
There wasn't no stop-snitching, uh, mentalities.
► 00:46:44
But also, there, and, and, and there weren't, You know, forensic files and all this shit where they've inadvertently helped criminals become better criminals.
► 00:46:52
Yeah.
► 00:46:53
Like a criminal knows now, like, hey.
► 00:46:55
Don't come everywhere.
► 00:46:56
Don't come everywhere.
► 00:46:57
Maybe don't brush your teeth with their toothbrush after you murder them.
► 00:47:00
Like, things, weird things like that.
► 00:47:01
Yeah, yeah.
► 00:47:02
Don't leave anything definitive.
► 00:47:04
Don't take a shit and not flush.
► 00:47:06
You know what I mean?
► 00:47:06
Like, there's things like that.
► 00:47:07
Even if that's your calling card, it's not okay.
► 00:47:09
Even if you're the shit killer.
► 00:47:11
Yeah.
► 00:47:12
The take a shit bandit.
► 00:47:13
So, after our friend Mark Hansen is off the hook.
► 00:47:19
You know, shit got wide open.
► 00:47:21
There were tons and tons of suspects.
► 00:47:23
Sure.
► 00:47:23
And to the point where to this day, over 60 people have confessed to doing that.
► 00:47:28
That's what I was just going to say.
► 00:47:30
Anytime you get cases like these, there's people who confess, which is, I would love to.
► 00:47:36
Here's what I would love.
► 00:47:37
I would love somebody to confess, and then years later, they get the proper therapy.
► 00:47:42
They're on the proper medication.
► 00:47:43
They're in a much better place.
► 00:47:45
And it's like, Dan, why did you.
► 00:47:47
First of all, Dan, you weren't even born for this murder.
► 00:47:49
Yeah, that's weird.
► 00:47:50
Why did you confess to the Black Dahlia murder?
► 00:47:52
You know, there's reincarnation is real.
► 00:47:55
Of course.
► 00:47:56
You know, I did it, and then I died, and I came back as me, but I still have.
► 00:48:00
The karmic debt of what I did in a past life.
► 00:48:02
Like, what's that?
► 00:48:03
Of course, I want to come clean about it.
► 00:48:04
What's that John Binet guy up to?
► 00:48:05
Ooh.
► 00:48:06
That weirdo who had his, like, pants pulled up to his nipples.
► 00:48:08
John Michael Carr?
► 00:48:09
Something like that.
► 00:48:10
Yeah.
► 00:48:10
Well, I don't know.
► 00:48:11
Who knows?
► 00:48:12
Let us know.
► 00:48:12
Wasn't he confessing to get out of, like, a Vietnamese prison, though?
► 00:48:16
I don't know.
► 00:48:17
I think that.
► 00:48:17
I think he was in some trouble for ladyboy business.
► 00:48:19
I think he was banging kids in Vietnam or something like that.
► 00:48:22
And he was like, I killed John Binet Ramsey.
► 00:48:23
Take me to America.
► 00:48:24
Get me out of here.
► 00:48:25
Before you bury me up to my head and have little kids poop on me for a prison.
► 00:48:28
Yeah.
► 00:48:28
I think that that sort of.
► 00:48:29
I don't know if that's what they do in Vietnam.
► 00:48:31
I don't think they bury up to your head and let little kids poop on you.
► 00:48:33
I've got There's a, yeah, I mean, I think confessions like that happen.
► 00:48:38
I think there's a lot of people who want attention.
► 00:48:40
Yeah.
► 00:48:40
Because also, okay, I confess.
► 00:48:43
Okay.
► 00:48:44
Let's just say there's been a serial killer in Chicago.
► 00:48:47
Okay.
► 00:48:47
You know, the CTA Brownline killer.
► 00:48:50
Okay.
► 00:48:50
And then I'm like, it's me.
► 00:48:52
Boy, I hope by the time this comes out, that has fucking framing myself.
► 00:48:56
I'll tell you a story.
► 00:48:57
Let's keep going.
► 00:48:58
I don't want to tell any stories.
► 00:48:59
I always regret telling stories.
► 00:49:00
Anyway.
► 00:49:02
And then I'm like, it's me.
► 00:49:03
And then they're like, No, it's not you because these were done while you were at comedy shows.
► 00:49:07
Yeah, we have video of you on stage.
► 00:49:08
Can I get in trouble for filing a false statement?
► 00:49:12
I think you can get a ticket or something like that, but I don't know if you can do time for that.
► 00:49:15
But also, it's kind of weird.
► 00:49:17
It's real shitty.
► 00:49:18
Marty, why did you do that?
► 00:49:19
I don't know.
► 00:49:20
I got my name out there.
► 00:49:21
I think that some people are mentally ill enough that they actually think they did it.
► 00:49:25
I think there are some people.
► 00:49:26
And that's a great point.
► 00:49:28
But that's not what you're talking about.
► 00:49:29
That's not what I'm talking about.
► 00:49:30
You're talking about just being a shithole.
► 00:49:32
And who knows?
► 00:49:32
Maybe some of these people who are mentally ill.
► 00:49:35
Yeah.
► 00:49:36
They get engrossed in this.
► 00:49:38
They're reading books.
► 00:49:38
They're reading the newspaper.
► 00:49:40
When this is like a new thing, they're reading the newspaper.
► 00:49:42
And maybe in their mind, they think, I did do this.
► 00:49:46
Sure.
► 00:49:46
Sure.
► 00:49:46
I'm sure they're like, look, I don't have the details, but I just know I did this.
► 00:49:50
There have been a number of cases that I have seen over my 32 years of life that are definitely people who think they did it and just absolutely, definitively didn't.
► 00:50:00
Yep.
► 00:50:00
It's very weird.
► 00:50:01
And I think it's a popular thing with kids.
► 00:50:03
Schizophrenia does stuff to your brain.
► 00:50:04
Of course.
► 00:50:05
And I think it's a popular thing of people in prison.
► 00:50:08
Two of being like, uh, I did it.
► 00:50:11
Come get me so I don't get executed or whatever.
► 00:50:13
Or gain credibility.
► 00:50:14
Or gain credibility.
► 00:50:15
You can become like a folk hero in the prison.
► 00:50:18
And I think sometimes there's probably like, I mean, obviously there's gossip in any, uh, any, um, uh, scene.
► 00:50:27
You know?
► 00:50:28
This prison is a scene.
► 00:50:29
I mean, I'm saying in prison, there's probably a lot of gossip.
► 00:50:31
Sure.
► 00:50:32
You know, a lot of times they'll put an undercover cop in the same cell with somebody and they'll help, like, or bug things.
► 00:50:37
Yeah.
► 00:50:37
Hey Dan, you ever, uh, you ever kill anybody and cut them in half?
► 00:50:40
And you'd be like, Actually, I'm the Black Dahlia killer.
► 00:50:43
Yeah.
► 00:50:43
The Avengers.
► 00:50:43
Did you ever kill anybody?
► 00:50:44
And by the way, if you don't, if you say you haven't, you're a punk and I'm going to fuck you.
► 00:50:48
Right, right, right.
► 00:50:49
So it's like there's that whole idea of, you know, there might be stories passed around or like, nah, we had a guy in here.
► 00:50:54
He knew he was in the cell one time with the real Black Dahlia guy and here's how they did it.
► 00:50:58
So then you might be amassing information.
► 00:51:00
You could be like, man, I did it.
► 00:51:01
Yeah.
► 00:51:02
Who knows?
► 00:51:02
Could be.
► 00:51:03
So another thing that I think is really fucked up is in addition to all these people who were confessing, there is a phenomenon of people blaming their dads.
► 00:51:11
Holy shit.
► 00:51:12
There is.
► 00:51:13
There's like three people who have written books about how their dad did it.
► 00:51:17
I. What do you think of any of these?
► 00:51:20
I tend to think the one guy who's a former cop.
► 00:51:22
You're talking about George Hodel.
► 00:51:25
I think his daddy might have done it.
► 00:51:27
You think so?
► 00:51:27
That's the sexiest one.
George Hodel and Molestation
00:15:01
► 00:51:29
That is the sexiest one.
► 00:51:29
Because he's got the house.
► 00:51:30
Right.
► 00:51:31
He's got the secret passageway.
► 00:51:33
He does.
► 00:51:33
He's a doctor.
► 00:51:35
Dude, I would love to have a secret passageway.
► 00:51:37
God.
► 00:51:37
I love the thing.
► 00:51:38
I wouldn't kill anybody.
► 00:51:39
They go, I just have, like, I don't know, a bong I didn't use back there or something.
► 00:51:42
They go, I didn't smoke weed.
► 00:51:43
I'd like that.
► 00:51:43
They go, what did your dad use this for?
► 00:51:46
Mostly hardcore pornography.
► 00:51:48
He goes, mostly hardcore pornography.
► 00:51:50
Which is cool.
► 00:51:50
If you have a family, like, why not have a jack room?
► 00:51:53
It was great.
► 00:51:53
They came into this, and it's iconic, it's from Frank Lloyd Wright's son who helped build this.
► 00:51:59
They call it, like, the.
► 00:52:00
Temple or something.
► 00:52:02
It's an iconic place in LA.
► 00:52:03
They filmed a bunch of movies and TV stuff.
► 00:52:05
And this was the house that George Hodel lived at.
► 00:52:07
Yeah.
► 00:52:09
And he.
► 00:52:12
So, yeah, in this documentary where they're there or whatever, he's like, I don't see a secret passageway.
► 00:52:17
And he goes, Let me show you.
► 00:52:19
Click, the bookshelf moves.
► 00:52:21
It's like out of Resident Evil or something.
► 00:52:23
What do you think if you're a contractor and you get the plans and you're just like, All right, Dane, get over here.
► 00:52:31
So, there's going to be a secret passageway, and you're just like, oh, another one of these fucking guys.
► 00:52:35
Well, I mean, think about the dude who made that hotel here, the murder hotel.
► 00:52:40
Jesus Christ.
► 00:52:41
About that book that I couldn't finish.
► 00:52:42
Triple H.
► 00:52:43
The original Triple H.
► 00:52:45
The Cerebral Assassin?
► 00:52:46
The real, just the assassin.
► 00:52:48
Talk about H.H. Holmes.
► 00:52:49
H.H. Holmes, coming soon.
► 00:52:52
Leonardo DiCaprio.
► 00:52:53
Oh, really?
► 00:52:53
They're going to make a movie of it.
► 00:52:54
Man, good, because I couldn't fucking read that book.
► 00:52:56
Battle in the White City is so boring.
► 00:52:58
He built a murder home.
► 00:52:59
But I think that he did that using multiple contractors, so people wouldn't realize.
► 00:53:03
That was his thing, and he didn't want to pay for shit.
► 00:53:05
Too.
► 00:53:05
He was a real piece of shit.
► 00:53:06
Just on the contract side alone, H.H. Holmes was a piece of shit on his contract.
► 00:53:10
Speaking as a union supporter.
► 00:53:12
Speaking as a union supporter and somebody who thinks you should pay for the work that's done.
► 00:53:16
Agreed.
► 00:53:17
He was a piece of shit.
► 00:53:17
But anyway.
► 00:53:18
So, George Hodel, though, I don't know about that.
► 00:53:21
Bill, I don't know.
► 00:53:22
If I were a contractor, I would be like, this is going to be a cool house.
► 00:53:25
Right.
► 00:53:26
But also, if it's a little suspicious.
► 00:53:27
I wouldn't be at all suspicious.
► 00:53:28
But if it's a little like, oh man, there's going to be some weird shit that goes on in this house.
► 00:53:31
Maybe fucking, maybe there's some fucking going on in this house.
► 00:53:33
You kind of want to be like, uh, Hey, babe.
► 00:53:36
Like before you go to bed at night.
► 00:53:37
Hey, babe, listen.
► 00:53:38
If anything ever happens to me, okay?
► 00:53:40
Uh huh.
► 00:53:41
God forbid I fall.
► 00:53:42
I'm at a work site tomorrow.
► 00:53:43
God forbid something happens.
► 00:53:46
Just know.
► 00:53:47
Just know.
► 00:53:47
If anything ever happens at that house I just finished over on Wabanzia, just know there's some secret shit going on.
► 00:53:54
There's some secret passageways in that house.
► 00:53:55
Yeah.
► 00:53:56
I mean.
► 00:53:57
Good night.
► 00:53:57
And then you go to bed.
► 00:53:58
Good night.
► 00:53:59
I love you.
► 00:53:59
It's a good way to keep up.
► 00:54:00
Kiss on the forehead.
► 00:54:01
I love you.
► 00:54:01
And now I'm going to make you squirt.
► 00:54:04
Oh, damn.
► 00:54:05
Sorry, I took it there.
► 00:54:06
So, I don't know.
► 00:54:08
However, Jor Total is.
► 00:54:10
A kind of creepy character.
► 00:54:12
Kind of creepy character.
► 00:54:13
He was accused by his 14 year old daughter of molesting her.
► 00:54:17
Yes.
► 00:54:18
And now here's the sentence that I read that I didn't like to hear.
► 00:54:21
Okay.
► 00:54:22
Three witnesses testified at his trial that they were present in the room and saw him having sex with his daughter.
► 00:54:28
Yeah.
► 00:54:28
What the fuck?
► 00:54:29
He was apparently had some pretty wild parties at this house.
► 00:54:34
Three people watched him have sex with his daughter?
► 00:54:36
Look, if you're going to have sex with your daughter, you might as well make it a show.
► 00:54:41
That's crazy.
► 00:54:42
But also, crazier, he was acquitted.
► 00:54:44
Yeah.
► 00:54:44
And I don't know why.
► 00:54:46
There's no real explanation for that.
► 00:54:47
From what I heard, they thought she was lying or something like that.
► 00:54:51
She told his son, who is kind of making a living out of telling people his daddy might have done this.
► 00:54:58
Not kind of.
► 00:54:58
He is.
► 00:54:59
He's got books out.
► 00:55:00
Yeah.
► 00:55:02
And he claims that this all started because he was talking to his sister after the father passed away.
► 00:55:09
And they don't have the same mother.
► 00:55:11
This dude had like eight kids or something.
► 00:55:13
Sure.
► 00:55:14
I mean, he, he, this guy, this guy was a, another one of these fuckers, man.
► 00:55:17
This guy was fucking.
► 00:55:18
He, he liked to get around.
► 00:55:19
He banged his, uh, he banged his professor's wife, got her pregnant.
► 00:55:23
Nice.
► 00:55:23
She had to get shipped away.
► 00:55:25
Sure, gotta move.
► 00:55:25
He likes shows up and he's like, I want to do the right thing.
► 00:55:29
Let me take care of this kid.
► 00:55:30
She's like, Get out of here.
► 00:55:31
You're a kid.
► 00:55:32
And then he just, everywhere he went, got women pregnant, married, got married.
► 00:55:36
He likes changed careers.
► 00:55:37
He likes changed careers.
► 00:55:38
I didn't know it was so easy to change your careers back then, too.
► 00:55:40
Yeah.
► 00:55:40
I think a lot of that is scamming, too.
► 00:55:42
You know, a little bit of.
► 00:55:44
Did I go to college for that?
► 00:55:44
Of course.
► 00:55:45
Yes, I did.
► 00:55:46
I have a friend currently who got a job as an insurance salesman who never went to college, said he did.
► 00:55:52
No one checked.
► 00:55:52
Catch me if you can.
► 00:55:54
I mean, but that's.
► 00:55:55
Who's checking, though?
► 00:55:55
Who's checking back then?
► 00:55:57
Who's checking?
► 00:55:57
It would be almost impossible back then.
► 00:55:59
Again.
► 00:55:59
Like, if you said you went to Harvard or something like that in 1946, they could call Harvard and then be like, hey, can you look this up?
► 00:56:07
And then be like, well, it's all physical records.
► 00:56:10
Right.
► 00:56:10
How am I going to.
► 00:56:11
I don't know.
► 00:56:11
Hey, dude, at Allstate, I don't give a fuck.
► 00:56:14
I'm working right now.
► 00:56:14
Yeah.
► 00:56:14
Do you want me to take a year to look through the microfiche or whatever?
► 00:56:19
I don't fucking even know.
► 00:56:20
The Dewey Decimal System?
► 00:56:21
So, Hodel, right?
► 00:56:23
Yeah.
► 00:56:23
Beyond that, he's a bad.
► 00:56:25
We can tell he's kind of a bad dude.
► 00:56:27
Yeah.
► 00:56:28
So, they.
► 00:56:30
The police took notice of him because of this molestation case.
► 00:56:33
Yeah.
► 00:56:33
And there was some sort of indication that he might have something to do with Black Dahlia.
► 00:56:38
So they bug his house.
► 00:56:40
They put in surveillance equipment and they catch him saying some really weird shit.
► 00:56:48
He says Clean your room or I'll kill you like I did the Black Dahlia.
► 00:56:53
He says Supposing I did kill the Black Dahlia, they couldn't prove it now.
► 00:56:57
They can't talk to my secretary anymore because she's dead.
► 00:57:01
They thought there was something fishy.
► 00:57:02
Anyway, now they may have figured it out.
► 00:57:04
Killed her.
► 00:57:05
Maybe I did kill my secretary.
► 00:57:07
What are you going to do?
► 00:57:08
I killed them all.
► 00:57:11
Very similar to the end of Jinx on HBO.
► 00:57:13
And who knows the context of these quotes and who knows the tone?
► 00:57:18
Those recordings didn't survive.
► 00:57:21
But he's referencing his secretary whose name was Ruth Spaulding and she died of an overdose, which is a little bit suspicious back then, especially when you work for a doctor.
► 00:57:31
Someone's taking their work home.
► 00:57:33
Yeah, this was in 1945.
► 00:57:36
So, what was that?
► 00:57:37
Two years before the Black Dahlia?
► 00:57:38
Yeah.
► 00:57:40
He was suspected of her murder because he was present when she died and burned some of her papers before the police arrived.
► 00:57:46
Always weird.
► 00:57:47
The indication that they had given was that she had figured out that he was misdiagnosing patients and basically committing fraud to overcharge them for things and stuff like that, and she was going to go public.
► 00:58:00
That is the sort of suspicion, but the case was dropped for lack of evidence.
► 00:58:05
So.
► 00:58:06
This is another, and I don't mean to cut you off real quick.
► 00:58:07
We'll get right back to what you were saying.
► 00:58:09
Oh, no, no, go ahead.
► 00:58:09
Keep that thought.
► 00:58:10
And this goes right back to Robert Durst from The Jinx on HBO, which is a great little miniseries to watch.
► 00:58:18
These people who have all these people dying around them.
► 00:58:20
Yeah.
► 00:58:21
Always fascinating.
► 00:58:22
Like, dude.
► 00:58:23
It's not a coincidence.
► 00:58:24
How many people have died under weird circumstances around you, Dan?
► 00:58:28
Huh.
► 00:58:30
None.
► 00:58:30
Okay.
► 00:58:31
Me neither.
► 00:58:31
Well, I mean, like maybe two steps removed or something like that.
► 00:58:34
I'm talking, you had someone on as a guest, and then you're just like.
► 00:58:37
Oh my God, Tommy McNamara died.
► 00:58:39
No, he just moved into the apartment.
► 00:58:40
Yeah, I'm so sorry.
► 00:58:41
I don't know how that happened.
► 00:58:42
And then it's like, okay, well, you know what?
► 00:58:44
He fell or something hit his head.
► 00:58:46
And then it's like a year later, it's like, oh, Dan Dries died.
► 00:58:49
How?
► 00:58:49
He was podcasting with Dan and something happened.
► 00:58:51
And they're like, come on, dude.
► 00:58:52
Now we've got two dead co hosts.
► 00:58:54
Certainly weird things have happened to people we know, but not in any way that we can.
► 00:58:58
But I'm talking about these guys who are like, dude, I know this address.
► 00:59:02
I've been here before.
► 00:59:03
What the fuck?
► 00:59:04
Or why does your name keep coming up?
► 00:59:05
I imagine like a cop saying that.
► 00:59:07
Like, I come and sit down in the interrogation room and you're just like, officer.
► 00:59:11
And I'm like, Dan Friesen, why do I keep hearing your name?
► 00:59:15
My name is Rings Out on the Streets.
► 00:59:18
There's like so much plausible deniability to all that shit that it's like, what's your evidence?
► 00:59:23
What proof do you have?
► 00:59:23
You know, I told you last night I was watching all these videos of the sovereign citizens people.
► 00:59:27
Yes.
► 00:59:28
And I want to talk about that at some future date.
► 00:59:30
For sure.
► 00:59:30
But it made me realize that if you're fucking aggressive to cops and you're white, they just kind of leave you alone.
► 00:59:39
Like, if you're a pussy about something that they're like, you know, bullying you about, they do have to hit quotas.
► 00:59:45
And it's much easier to deal with someone who's being overly cooperative.
► 00:59:49
I saw Dateline NBC where these cops were interrogating the fuck.
► 00:59:53
Out of this college kid.
► 00:59:55
They're like, you're a weirdo, you know, you killed this girl, you weirdo, you collect swords, you're a freak, and he just was like, fine, I did it, leave me alone.
► 01:00:02
He didn't do it.
► 01:00:02
Yeah, of course not.
► 01:00:04
Most confessions are bullied.
► 01:00:05
There's so, so much of that.
► 01:00:07
But if you do have that confidence.
► 01:00:09
If you're someone who is like, you're operating under maritime law, I am not a person.
► 01:00:14
What are we doing?
► 01:00:14
I, okay, we gotta let this guy go.
► 01:00:16
He's freaking out.
► 01:00:17
I am a living human being, not a corporation.
► 01:00:20
All this shit.
► 01:00:20
Oh man.
► 01:00:21
Oh god.
► 01:00:21
You gotta watch some of these videos.
► 01:00:23
I will.
► 01:00:23
In one of them, the guy arrests the judge.
► 01:00:27
The judge is like, shit, he's got me.
► 01:00:28
It's so great.
► 01:00:29
I love it.
► 01:00:30
There's one.
► 01:00:31
I don't want to go too far off.
► 01:00:32
Don't get too far off.
► 01:00:33
There's one where a guy is like a mountain man kind of guy.
► 01:00:36
He's got a crazy beard and a crazy curled mustache.
► 01:00:38
I say, I say, I say.
► 01:00:39
And he's just like, I was just foraging off the land like it is my God given right to do, and you are impugning on the common law of the Lord.
► 01:00:48
And he's just going on and on to the judge.
► 01:00:50
And the judge, after five minutes of listening to this and trying to ask a question, she's just like, I got to go check on something.
► 01:00:57
And just leaves.
► 01:00:58
And he is like, the judge has left the courtroom.
► 01:01:00
Case dismissed.
► 01:01:02
There is no one here to hold me.
► 01:01:04
And him and his people all just march out of the courtroom.
► 01:01:07
And a camera is following them.
► 01:01:08
And they pass the judge, who was just going to her chambers or something.
► 01:01:11
Yeah.
► 01:01:12
And they pass her, and she's just like, fuck.
► 01:01:14
It's like, she has abandoned the court.
► 01:01:16
So they leave.
► 01:01:17
And it's like this big victory.
► 01:01:18
Everyone's like, oh, they beat the judge.
► 01:01:20
It's like, no, he's going to be back in court tomorrow.
► 01:01:23
I saw another video of them walking through Target yelling about bathrooms recently.
► 01:01:26
The employee has abandoned the bath area.
► 01:01:30
The transgendered male has left the bathroom.
► 01:01:33
Yeah.
► 01:01:33
So I'm sorry.
► 01:01:33
I didn't really have a spin off on that.
► 01:01:35
But yeah, it is super weird when there are people who are like, why are there 18 people who have died suspiciously around you?
► 01:01:41
Explain yourself.
► 01:01:42
But under the law, you don't really have to explain yourself.
► 01:01:44
No.
► 01:01:45
Prove the evidence.
► 01:01:45
What if they just, like, look, I'm creepy.
► 01:01:47
I get it.
► 01:01:47
But I didn't murder anybody.
► 01:01:48
I'm really creepy.
► 01:01:49
I like knives.
► 01:01:50
I like swords.
► 01:01:52
So in the end, I don't think George Hodel did it.
► 01:01:55
Really?
► 01:01:55
No.
► 01:01:56
I think he's a creep, but I don't think he did it.
► 01:01:57
Do you think there's a better suspect than him?
► 01:01:58
I do.
► 01:01:59
Then why is his son going on and on about this?
► 01:02:01
Because his son wants money.
► 01:02:03
And.
► 01:02:03
I imagine his son was abused by his dad.
► 01:02:06
His son?
► 01:02:06
Because I do believe the daughter, I do believe that she was molested by him.
► 01:02:11
See, the son, when his dad died, got some of his belongings.
► 01:02:16
Yeah.
► 01:02:17
And there's a photo book.
► 01:02:18
And what kicked this all off was there was a woman in the photo book, and no one knows who she is.
► 01:02:23
And he starts saying, oh, that's the woman from the Black Panther.
► 01:02:25
It's Elizabeth Short.
► 01:02:26
And there's some, like, pimples, like freckles or moles or something.
► 01:02:31
And he's like, it's clear as day.
► 01:02:33
It's not.
► 01:02:34
I know.
► 01:02:35
There are times where you're like, God, you really want to believe.
► 01:02:37
This.
► 01:02:37
It's a bit of a stretch.
► 01:02:40
It's a long walk, is what I would say.
► 01:02:42
I think he knows his dad was not a great dude, so he doesn't feel guilty blaming him for this.
► 01:02:46
Nope.
► 01:02:47
As an investigator and a former cop, I would expect more of that.
► 01:02:51
As a PD detective.
► 01:02:52
Yeah.
► 01:02:52
That doesn't mean shit.
► 01:02:53
I know.
► 01:02:54
A lot of LAPD detectives were real bad dudes, too.
► 01:02:57
I know, but it's just like what a weird world to live in if that was the deal of just like, you know, yeah, I'm just going to blame my dad for this horrific murder.
► 01:03:07
My parents aren't great.
► 01:03:08
I know you don't have the.
► 01:03:10
Yeah.
► 01:03:10
But if they were worse.
► 01:03:11
Right.
► 01:03:12
And they were dead.
► 01:03:13
And I knew that there would be no consequences to them.
► 01:03:16
And there'd be some money coming your way.
► 01:03:17
I could make all the money.
► 01:03:19
Yeah.
► 01:03:19
By just sensationalizing a couple of vague details.
► 01:03:22
Yeah.
► 01:03:23
And being like, my dad was the Green River killer.
► 01:03:25
Yeah.
► 01:03:26
Or something like that.
► 01:03:27
Why not?
► 01:03:28
Why not?
► 01:03:28
Especially if you have a warped sense of morality and you are convinced.
► 01:03:32
Like, I sincerely do believe at least he was in some way emotionally or physically abused by his father.
► 01:03:39
Okay.
► 01:03:39
Because you don't have a dad like that who doesn't.
► 01:03:42
Branch out a little, let's say.
► 01:03:44
Well, I mean, he had all these different kids and, like, you're going to have to nurture a child.
► 01:03:49
Sure.
► 01:03:49
So there's got to be some bitterness and shit like that.
► 01:03:51
I'm making a little bit of an assumption.
► 01:03:53
I'm going to say that anybody whose dad was even falsely accused of, and I like how they called it incest.
► 01:03:59
That was weird.
► 01:04:00
Well, they were fucking.
► 01:04:01
But it's, I mean, child, well, I guess child molestation or whatever.
► 01:04:05
Incestuous child molestation.
► 01:04:06
Yeah, whatever.
► 01:04:07
But I mean, like, I don't think there's any, like, dad of the years who were like, look, that was all wrong.
► 01:04:11
Yeah.
► 01:04:11
I'm not that guy.
► 01:04:12
So the last person to see her alive was a guy named Robert Manley.
► 01:04:16
AKA Red.
► 01:04:17
Red.
► 01:04:18
He was a really good suspect for a while, but he had a good alibi.
► 01:04:22
He banged around with her like a week before she died.
► 01:04:26
But he claimed that he had left her, he dropped her back off after they had stayed at a hotel a ways away, and that all checks out.
► 01:04:34
You know, it's kind of cool.
► 01:04:35
He would be.
► 01:04:36
Oh, sorry.
► 01:04:36
Go ahead.
► 01:04:37
What I think is kind of cool about this time frame is, and maybe it's just from growing up watching old movies or even things like The Wonder Years, which happens years after this, you kind of feel like.
► 01:04:50
Nobody was just banging around.
► 01:04:52
But people were banging around.
► 01:04:53
People were banging around.
► 01:04:53
They were just discreet about it.
► 01:04:54
They were discreet.
► 01:04:56
They didn't tweet about it or write on Facebook.
► 01:04:58
Jesus, yeah.
► 01:04:59
It didn't put people's business on the street.
► 01:05:00
Front Street was very.
► 01:05:02
Somebody slid into DMs.
► 01:05:03
Front Street was a very lonely place.
► 01:05:05
Nobody was getting their business put on it.
► 01:05:06
I like that much more, though, man.
► 01:05:07
I'll tell you what.
► 01:05:08
That's the way I'd like people to live.
► 01:05:10
It is interesting to be like, yeah, we fucked a little bit and just nothing came about it.
► 01:05:14
Yeah, just we stayed at a hotel.
► 01:05:15
That's what they even say.
► 01:05:16
Didn't fuck, we stayed at a hotel.
► 01:05:18
Oh, that was a nice way of putting it.
► 01:05:19
Yeah, there was a nice slang.
► 01:05:22
So, also, Woody Guthrie was apparently a suspect.
► 01:05:26
You gotta love that.
► 01:05:30
Because he had stalked some women and sent them clipped out letters.
► 01:05:37
Yeah.
► 01:05:37
Like words clipped out of magazines and shit like that.
► 01:05:40
Like your classic ransom notes from the movies.
► 01:05:42
As did the Black Dahlia Avenger.
► 01:05:44
So people are like, fucking Woody Guthrie did it.
► 01:05:46
Also, Orson Welles was considered a suspect for a little while.
► 01:05:49
Listen, there's Orson Welles.
► 01:05:53
Oh, no, that's not Orson Welles.
► 01:05:54
I'm thinking of.
► 01:05:57
Who's the.
► 01:05:57
Oliver Platt.
► 01:05:58
Vincent Price.
► 01:05:58
Oh.
► 01:05:59
Who is notoriously a gigantic penis, so there's no way that was possible.
► 01:06:02
Oh, no, not a chance.
► 01:06:03
Orson Welles.
► 01:06:04
Yeah, every once in a while you hear some dark stuff about Orson Welles.
► 01:06:07
Yeah, and he had a real enigmatic sort of way of being.
► 01:06:12
One of the things.
► 01:06:13
Oh, sorry.
► 01:06:14
Just one of the things was he had a familiarity with magic.
► 01:06:18
He was very involved in the magic world, and the bisection of the body was something that people assumed was sort of like.
► 01:06:24
Which is weak.
► 01:06:26
One of the things that I was going to mention with the.
Bugsy Siegel and Magic
00:14:57
► 01:06:31
The way she was murdered.
► 01:06:32
Every once in a while, there will be murders, and it's kind of like, well, that might have been done to throw off the cops.
► 01:06:39
For sure.
► 01:06:39
You know, like, oh, like, you know, who knows?
► 01:06:43
And I heard one theory of like, it could have been a botched abortion, because this is when you had to do abortions under the table.
► 01:06:49
Yep.
► 01:06:49
Could have been a botched abortion, and the doctor went, oh boy, we got to make this look like it's some type of satanic ritual or something like that.
► 01:06:57
Because this was also a time where, you know, you bring up the occult or something like that, people get real freaked out.
► 01:07:04
You know, and it's one of those things where.
► 01:07:06
And the 40s spirits were hot.
► 01:07:08
Yeah, yeah.
► 01:07:10
So, it's one of those things where it could maybe, maybe you can throw the cops off.
► 01:07:14
I remember one, this was crazy.
► 01:07:16
Not to keep going off on these kids, but I remember a Dateline NBC years ago where these kids hated one of their teachers.
► 01:07:24
He was mean to them.
► 01:07:25
They thought, and they're like, let's kill him.
► 01:07:28
They killed him, they shot him, and he was laying stomach first on his front porch.
► 01:07:34
One of the kids had a shotgun and they put it to his butt and shot him like right in the ass.
► 01:07:40
Cops think, This is a gay crime of passion.
► 01:07:42
And they go a whole other direction.
► 01:07:44
These kids almost get away with it.
► 01:07:45
Yeah.
► 01:07:45
Because they find out this guy was gay, but he didn't tell them.
► 01:07:48
He wasn't out.
► 01:07:49
Oh, wow.
► 01:07:49
Then all of a sudden, any dude he hooked up with, they're like, you killed him.
► 01:07:52
And it's like, that was more on accident.
► 01:07:55
But then there's some where it's like, you know, I mean, I'm sure people have done weird, like, oh, let's see, what can I do?
► 01:08:01
I know what I'll do.
► 01:08:02
Like, we'll say it was like a robbery gone wrong or this or that or whatever.
► 01:08:06
And like, there's all those little things.
► 01:08:07
You mean in this case?
► 01:08:08
No, no, no.
► 01:08:09
Well, there's a part of me that thinks maybe this was a big smokescreen.
► 01:08:13
Well, let's get crazy.
► 01:08:14
Like, let's get crazy.
► 01:08:15
Because that is something that people have speculated in two instances.
► 01:08:20
One is that people connect it to the Cleveland torso murders.
► 01:08:24
Yes.
► 01:08:25
Which was around the same time between 1934 and 1930.
► 01:08:29
Copycat killers.
► 01:08:31
Or actually the same person.
► 01:08:33
On vacation?
► 01:08:33
The Cleveland torso murderer has never been caught.
► 01:08:37
That is unsolved.
► 01:08:38
It's LeBron James' dad.
► 01:08:39
Oh, just kidding.
► 01:08:40
Allegedly.
► 01:08:42
So what that dude did was he would.
► 01:08:46
Cut off, but he mostly fucked with hobos.
► 01:08:48
Yeah.
► 01:08:49
And would cut off their body parts and leave their torsos around.
► 01:08:53
Yeah.
► 01:08:53
And so there was disfigurement involved, and it's sort of.
► 01:08:57
There's a light connection to the two, but they never were able to prove any kind of connection, and that guy was never caught.
► 01:09:05
There was also a guy in Chicago, the lipstick murderer, who people connected to the Dahlia thing.
► 01:09:15
And that one.
► 01:09:17
It freaks me out a lot.
► 01:09:19
Do you know about the lipstick murders?
► 01:09:20
No, tell me all about it.
► 01:09:22
Okay, so there was a guy.
► 01:09:24
Let me pull up his name.
► 01:09:27
William Herons is his name.
► 01:09:29
And he fucked around and murdered a number of people.
► 01:09:35
He lived a life of crime.
► 01:09:36
He was a petty thief and would steal things and just was kind of like, from a very young age, involved in hooliganism.
► 01:09:43
In his movie, from as long as back as I can remember, I always loved crime.
► 01:09:48
Yeah, he had like, his family was poor and his parents fought all the time, so he'd always be out on the streets and from there.
► 01:09:53
Proud of his environment.
► 01:09:54
Real hooligan.
► 01:09:55
What year is this?
► 01:09:57
This would be, I mean, he was born in 1928.
► 01:09:59
Okay, so same time frame as the Dahlia.
► 01:10:01
Yeah, give or take.
► 01:10:02
This puts him in the right frame of mind.
► 01:10:04
Now, keep in mind, he confessed to these crimes, but also he later was like, I didn't do them.
► 01:10:10
That was a false confession.
► 01:10:12
Oh, the lipstick.
► 01:10:12
Yeah, yeah.
► 01:10:13
But he also died in prison, never being released.
► 01:10:15
Okay.
► 01:10:17
In June 1945.
► 01:10:18
43 year old Josephine Ross was found dead in her apartment on 4108 North Kenmore Avenue.
► 01:10:25
We know that area.
► 01:10:25
We know where that is.
► 01:10:26
We know where that is now.
► 01:10:27
Yeah.
► 01:10:28
Her head was wrapped in a dress as if to indicate that she was surprised by an intruder and was killed.
► 01:10:35
So there is pretty good indication that he was robbing her house.
► 01:10:39
Probably she was taking her dress off.
► 01:10:40
This all happened and shit went down.
► 01:10:42
She freaked out.
► 01:10:42
Okay, okay.
► 01:10:43
On December 10th, 1945, Frances Brown, a divorced woman, was discovered with a knife lodged in her neck and a bullet wound to the head in her apartment.
► 01:10:51
Jesus.
► 01:10:53
3941 North Pine Grove.
► 01:10:54
Holy fuck!
► 01:10:56
That's crazy.
► 01:10:57
We know that area.
► 01:11:00
So, yeah.
► 01:11:01
She had been savagely stabbed as a man.
► 01:11:04
And in lipstick, written on the wall, was written, for heaven's sake, catch me before I kill more.
► 01:11:11
I cannot control myself.
► 01:11:12
Holy shit.
► 01:11:14
Yeah.
► 01:11:15
So then the one that makes people suspect there's a connection to the Black Dahlia was on January 7th, 1946, six year old Suzanne Degnan was discovered missing from her first floor bedroom on 5943 North Kenmore in Edgewater.
► 01:11:32
After searching the apartment, they couldn't find her, blah, blah, blah.
► 01:11:36
They eventually found a ransom note that asked for $20,000.
► 01:11:40
Do not notify FBI or police.
► 01:11:42
Bills in fives and tens.
► 01:11:44
On the back of it, it said, burn this note for her safety.
► 01:11:47
And I guess they did not do that.
► 01:11:49
A bunch of people called and asked for ransoms and things like that.
► 01:11:54
And eventually, they found her head in the sewer and then gradually found her dismembered arms, legs, and torso in the sewers at various places.
► 01:12:07
So these two murders were active around the same time.
► 01:12:12
And some people have assumed or thought that maybe there was a connection.
► 01:12:15
Timing doesn't quite match in a good way to explain away this.
► 01:12:25
But it is interesting that in the mid 1940s, there were three people probably in the United States who were really into cutting up bodies.
► 01:12:34
Yikes.
► 01:12:35
That is frightening.
► 01:12:36
So you asked me what I thought the best suspect was.
► 01:12:39
Yeah.
► 01:12:40
And I believe the best suspect is a guy named Dr. Walter Bailey.
► 01:12:44
Did you run into this cat?
► 01:12:47
Wasn't he a little older, though?
► 01:12:48
He was.
► 01:12:48
He was 67 years old, just short of 69.
► 01:12:51
See, that's when, again, going back to that BTK.
► 01:12:55
That's a fascinating, I think it's an MSNBC special about the BTK murderer.
► 01:13:01
I'd like to do a whole special on how BTK killer is redundant.
► 01:13:04
That's what the K means.
► 01:13:05
That's why I just said BTK murderer.
► 01:13:07
Mind torture killer, murderer, whatever.
► 01:13:09
Still redundant.
► 01:13:10
Whatever, the BTK.
► 01:13:12
The ATM machine killer.
► 01:13:14
But with BTK, one of the things, and during this interview, not unlike the Iceman, the HBO, amazing HBO documentary.
► 01:13:23
You're not talking about that Chicago guitar comic.
► 01:13:25
Nope.
► 01:13:27
J.W. the Iceman?
► 01:13:29
No, the Iceman, who.
► 01:13:30
The Koklinski guy, right?
► 01:13:32
And let me bring this back to wrestling.
► 01:13:34
Stone Cold was watching that documentary back then.
► 01:13:36
Yeah, he was.
► 01:13:36
And he said, I got to be this ruthless killer.
► 01:13:40
And then the wife came in and said, Drink your tea.
► 01:13:41
It's going to get Stone Cold.
► 01:13:42
And the rest of fucking history.
► 01:13:44
But it sounds too perfect to be true.
► 01:13:46
Well, he was going to be the Iceman at first, and they started calling him that a little bit.
► 01:13:49
Like, they were like, Steve Austin, the Iceman.
► 01:13:50
And then he was going to be the Iceman.
► 01:13:52
Then he got this list of terrible names.
► 01:13:53
He got tag teams with the Yetay.
► 01:13:55
Yeah.
► 01:13:55
He got terrible names.
► 01:13:57
WB was like, let's give you some names.
► 01:13:58
One of them was Frost McCool.
► 01:14:01
Oh, boy.
► 01:14:01
And he was like, I was almost goddamn, the best you could come up with was Frost McCool.
► 01:14:05
Anyway, the wife's a drinker, too, it gets stone cold.
► 01:14:06
But anyway.
► 01:14:07
Also, by the way, while we're on the topic of wrestling, the reviews will be coming back soon.
► 01:14:12
Yes.
► 01:14:12
I just want people to know because I have not addressed that at all.
► 01:14:16
Yes.
► 01:14:17
So, both of these men in these interviews, very matter of fact, very much like, well, let me tell you why I did this.
► 01:14:25
But with the BTK, he talks about how when he started getting older, he knew he had to start targeting older women because he couldn't fight off younger women.
► 01:14:33
Interesting.
► 01:14:34
That's why when I look at these guys sometimes who are getting older.
► 01:14:37
Yeah.
► 01:14:37
Okay, let's go.
► 01:14:38
No, I mean, you do make a decent argument.
► 01:14:41
It seems like a young man's killing.
► 01:14:43
Yeah.
► 01:14:44
I mean, I see what you're saying, but I think that there's a way around that.
► 01:14:47
I think that there's a reason why, and we've already discussed it.
► 01:14:51
So basically, this dude was a very gifted surgeon.
► 01:14:54
So that puts him in the hopper, number one.
► 01:14:56
Number two, his ex wife lived a block or so, right about a block from the dumping spot.
► 01:15:01
Yeah.
► 01:15:02
Also, his daughter was the matron of honor during Elizabeth Short's sister's wedding.
► 01:15:09
So there is like a familial connection to the family.
► 01:15:12
Crazy.
► 01:15:13
Right.
► 01:15:13
So that doesn't look good.
► 01:15:14
You have a connection now to the family and to the location where the body was dropped.
► 01:15:19
Okay.
► 01:15:19
Because the location is suspicious.
► 01:15:21
You could have gone to the woods.
► 01:15:22
Right.
► 01:15:22
They didn't.
► 01:15:23
That seems like it means something why it was there.
► 01:15:29
It's a little either showboating or catch me.
► 01:15:32
But here's my whole thing.
► 01:15:33
And this is one of the things I read about this.
► 01:15:34
Yeah.
► 01:15:34
Why are you going to wait.
► 01:15:36
To do this, is this his first murder?
► 01:15:39
Possibly.
► 01:15:41
At 67?
► 01:15:42
Well, when he died, he ended up dying a couple years later, and when he died, an autopsy showed that he suffered from a fairly serious neurodegenerative disease.
► 01:15:51
So there's a decent chance that it was his first murder because he was starting to go senile.
► 01:15:56
Crispin Wastow.
► 01:15:57
Essentially, yeah.
► 01:15:58
He was starting to lose elements of his mind, which would also explain some of the particular overviolence of it.
► 01:16:06
It would explain.
► 01:16:08
The fucking really creepiness of it.
► 01:16:10
It would be weird to think from this wedding he just saw this girl.
► 01:16:14
He was like, hmm, she's cool.
► 01:16:16
Well, also, he had a mistress.
► 01:16:18
We do know that.
► 01:16:19
They all had mistresses.
► 01:16:20
He had a mistress.
► 01:16:20
I feel like if you were a doctor in LA back then, you didn't have a mistress.
► 01:16:23
You were a fucking nerd.
► 01:16:24
You weren't in the club.
► 01:16:25
It's like if you're the guy who shows up at 90s Raw without a sign.
► 01:16:28
Yeah, get the fuck out of here, dude.
► 01:16:30
You don't have a fucking.
► 01:16:31
Your local radio host, DJ, plus 316.
► 01:16:36
So, he did have a mistress, which indicates that he wasn't.
► 01:16:40
In his marriage.
► 01:16:41
He wasn't dedicated in his marriage.
► 01:16:43
So there's a decent chance that he might have had some interaction with her.
► 01:16:49
It's possible.
► 01:16:50
Of course.
► 01:16:51
Now, what is even more sort of intriguing to me is that Walter Bailey's mistress was apparently keeping blackmail on him of a horrible secret.
► 01:17:03
That's what Walter Bailey's wife said after he had died because she found out that when he died, he left almost all of his money to his mistress.
► 01:17:11
Yeah, she had to blackmail him because of that.
► 01:17:13
And the good money says that the thing that she was blackmailing him about was that he performed abortions.
► 01:17:20
Oh.
► 01:17:21
And that he was an abortionist, and then also theoretically that he had killed Elizabeth Short.
► 01:17:27
Now, the theory that I would operate is the one that we've already sort of talked about that he was an abortion doctor.
► 01:17:33
Elizabeth Short had a connection to him through being friends with the family, or her sister being friends with them.
► 01:17:40
Yeah.
► 01:17:40
May have known that he was an abortion doctor, found out that she was pregnant, needed an abortion, went to him.
► 01:17:46
He's going senile.
► 01:17:48
Something snaps or whatever.
► 01:17:50
Maybe fucks up the abortion like we were talking about.
► 01:17:52
That's possible.
► 01:17:54
It ends up killing her and framing her in a pretty crazy way.
► 01:18:02
That's the theory that I would go with.
► 01:18:03
That sounds pretty good.
► 01:18:04
Because, I mean, any of these suspects could have done it except for Woody Guthrie.
► 01:18:10
He didn't do it.
► 01:18:10
Do you think there's any chance that there were multiple people or this was some type of group ritual?
► 01:18:16
I think it's a murder on the Orient Express situation.
► 01:18:18
I mean, I don't know.
► 01:18:21
Any part of you thinking that this was two people?
► 01:18:24
Like, why not two people?
► 01:18:26
I don't know.
► 01:18:27
The reason I think that my mind doesn't go to two people is that, well, first of all, we're like, what, 60, 70 years removed from the event?
► 01:18:36
Yeah.
► 01:18:37
None of the documentation from back then has any good tag teams indicated.
► 01:18:42
Were there that evidence to go on?
► 01:18:43
Sure.
► 01:18:45
What I hate, and this is like what really, because the people who were around when.
► 01:18:51
Like JFK was assassinated.
► 01:18:53
I'm like, where are my deathbed confessions?
► 01:18:56
Well, it means what we talked about last time.
► 01:18:58
Maybe people know that an afterlife is real and that there's consequences.
► 01:19:02
Or, like, why make my son think I'm a piece of shit?
► 01:19:07
Sure.
► 01:19:07
I'm going to die.
► 01:19:08
Why be like, hey, I did something real crazy when I was a kid?
► 01:19:11
It would be hard to know that your legacy would be forever tainted to the people who you loved the most.
► 01:19:16
Yeah.
► 01:19:17
A lot of these things, like the JFK assassination or other topics that we may talk about eventually, aren't things that you'd be super proud of, but you may do in your youth.
► 01:19:27
It was interesting because I was watching they.
► 01:19:29
Wait, hold on.
► 01:19:30
I just said that a JFK assassination is something you might do in your youth.
► 01:19:33
Look, we're all crazy.
► 01:19:34
We kill presidents when we're kids.
► 01:19:35
But then we grow up and go, oh my God, I can't believe I did that.
► 01:19:37
So I had to call myself out on that.
► 01:19:39
The one, one of the documentaries I saw when they were, they went to, like, I don't know, a current LA detective and they were kind of like, hey, maybe it's this guy's dad.
► 01:19:48
And man, he was so dismissive about everything.
► 01:19:51
Yeah.
► 01:19:51
And, like, part of me is like, why are you so dismissive?
► 01:19:53
But then another part of me is like, okay, like, you clearly have a reason to be so dismissive.
► 01:19:57
I would imagine that the dismissiveness is based on, like, this guy's trying to make a buck off this bullshit.
► 01:20:02
Right.
► 01:20:02
And a former.
► 01:20:04
Colleague.
► 01:20:04
Who was a member of the Brothers in Arts.
► 01:20:06
Right.
► 01:20:06
Like, come on, man.
► 01:20:07
What are you doing?
► 01:20:07
Yeah.
► 01:20:08
You're a cop.
► 01:20:08
You know better than this.
► 01:20:09
What the fuck?
► 01:20:10
Putting the badge out on the stroll?
► 01:20:12
You really changed my mind there.
► 01:20:15
That's the.
► 01:20:16
Did you see anything that was like, get the fuck out of here?
► 01:20:18
This isn't it.
► 01:20:19
I heard something.
► 01:20:19
The Woody Guthrie?
► 01:20:20
The Woody Guthrie one.
► 01:20:21
I heard one where I don't know if it was Bugsy McGraw got her pregnant.
► 01:20:25
Bugsy Siegel.
► 01:20:26
Bugsy Siegel.
► 01:20:26
Yeah.
► 01:20:28
Bugsy McGraw might be a pro wrestler.
► 01:20:30
Bugsy Siegel.
► 01:20:31
Yeah.
► 01:20:31
It's a country artist.
► 01:20:33
Got her pregnant and she had to go.
► 01:20:36
The thing that I thought was the stupidest was there was someone who was.
► 01:20:43
They were taking the notes and stuff that were sent to the police and using cryptographic analysis on it.
► 01:20:50
And they figured out who the person was because of these letters and certain placement.
► 01:20:56
Anything like that just was like, fuck all this.
► 01:20:59
That's what the one guy, they were like, it's his dad because he says that he hired a handwriting expert.
► 01:21:08
Analyst or whatever, and he's like, and then one of them said, and he goes, How many did he hire?
► 01:21:12
Yeah, yeah.
► 01:21:13
And then he's got one, and now that's the expert.
► 01:21:15
Handwriting analysis and body language analysis are two things that are notoriously stupid.
► 01:21:21
Unless it's the jinx, and he totally spelled Beverly Hills wrong.
► 01:21:25
But that's not handwriting.
► 01:21:26
That's just stupidity.
Finding Jeff Connors
00:02:56
► 01:21:28
But I mean, that's the thing, too, where the.
► 01:21:31
The one that I'm particularly talking about is this person said that they had closed the case and they had figured it out, and it was this guy named Ed Burns.
► 01:21:41
Who's not the guy, not the actor.
► 01:21:43
No, oh shit.
► 01:21:44
But it was someone who.
► 01:21:45
I think that's where he's been.
► 01:21:47
While she was staying with Mark Hansen, she did have boyfriends and stuff like that.
► 01:21:52
He was.
► 01:21:54
There were records of her being walked home by dudes and stuff like that who were her boyfriends.
► 01:22:00
There was one named Maurice.
► 01:22:01
Who was the, like, worked at the hotel and he was a writer, like an aspiring.
► 01:22:04
Oh, dude, that guy was the.
► 01:22:06
That dude was fucked up.
► 01:22:07
Yeah, what was his deal?
► 01:22:09
That guy was Leslie Dillon.
► 01:22:12
Yeah.
► 01:22:13
Aspiring screenplay writer.
► 01:22:14
He was 27 years old, and when he heard about the case, he contacted the LAPD psychiatrist, and he wanted to talk about, you know, like, what are your theories about the sexual psychopath and stuff like that.
► 01:22:29
And he just, like, wanted to hang out with the dude.
► 01:22:33
So they got together.
► 01:22:34
Yeah.
► 01:22:34
Because you have to be like, well, this might lead to something.
► 01:22:37
Yeah, I guess.
► 01:22:38
Because I feel like a lot of these murderers, they like to be close.
► 01:22:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
► 01:22:42
Like, they might have been at a trial of a wrong victim.
► 01:22:45
A wrong.
► 01:22:47
You want to bask in it.
► 01:22:48
There's something about, like, I think sometimes too they'll say, like, when there's people around a crime scene, like, they might be there.
► 01:22:55
Sure.
► 01:22:55
I think that every time, I mean, that's one of the big reasons I think crime scenes are documented in such heavy detail.
► 01:23:01
Like, get faces of everybody who's here.
► 01:23:03
Faces of everybody.
► 01:23:04
So, what he did is he wanted to hang out with this doctor.
► 01:23:06
So, they hang out.
► 01:23:07
This Dr. J. Paul Deriver.
► 01:23:10
Probably not pronounced that way.
► 01:23:11
But they get to talking, and he's like, Oh, yeah, I didn't do it, but I think there's this guy named Jeff Connors you should check out.
► 01:23:20
Right?
► 01:23:20
So, they're like, Okay, let's meet him.
► 01:23:23
And the doctor had become convinced that Jeff Connors was a Figment of this guy's imagination, and that he was basically going to be meeting with the killer.
► 01:23:32
So he meets up with the guy and brings plainclothes cops.
► 01:23:35
All over, just reading newspapers, eating sandwiches, vans everywhere.
► 01:23:39
So they end up going to Vegas, and he's like, Oh, yeah, we got to find this Jeff Connors guy.
► 01:23:48
So they end up going to California.
► 01:23:50
They go to San Francisco to try and find Jeff Connors.
► 01:23:54
And they look around, they can't find him.
► 01:23:56
Uh, but in the process of failing to find this guy, he lets loose some details that he shouldn't know about the crime and that the police had indicated that only someone who was involved with the crime.
► 01:24:10
I love that.
► 01:24:11
I love that idea also in police work where it's like they kind of set him up a little bit or they'll say something like, yeah, it's weird they cut her pinky toe off too.
► 01:24:20
And you're like, who knows about the pinky toe?
► 01:24:23
I got chills when he said that a little bit.
Artie Lane and False Leads
00:02:09
► 01:24:24
Those moments.
► 01:24:25
That was good.
► 01:24:26
So they immediately handcuff him and arrest him.
► 01:24:28
Yeah.
► 01:24:29
And, uh, I don't know what the deal is entirely, but he couldn't be placed in town at the time of the murder.
► 01:24:39
They end up finding out who he was talking about.
► 01:24:42
Jeff Connors was a person who went by the name of Artie Lane.
► 01:24:46
Artie Lane from the Howard Stern Show.
► 01:24:47
Yeah, that's why he tried to kill himself.
► 01:24:48
That's me, Artie Lane.
► 01:24:50
That's why he's got demons.
► 01:24:51
Artie Lane.
► 01:24:53
He was in Los Angeles.
► 01:24:56
He was a maintenance man at Columbia Studios, which is somewhere as an aspiring actress, Elizabeth liked to hang out.
► 01:25:03
But he and this crazy Dylan guy could not be placed.
► 01:25:07
And there was no evidence that they were guilty.
► 01:25:09
And so they were let off.
► 01:25:11
That guy, that's one of my favorites of the, like, hey, I'm going to create this guy or just use the wrong name and start talking to the psychiatrist.
► 01:25:20
And then we're going to hang out in Vegas.
► 01:25:21
What a life.
► 01:25:22
So weird.
► 01:25:23
What a fucking life.
► 01:25:24
And these police officers have to indulge this maniac.
► 01:25:28
Sounds like a movie.
► 01:25:29
Yeah.
► 01:25:29
That sounds like a movie.
► 01:25:30
All of it does.
► 01:25:31
But also, the things that I. Took away from it is it's really easy to start rumors.
► 01:25:37
Sure.
► 01:25:38
Throughout the reporting of it, the idea that she had a tiny puss, incapable of having sex, it's strange that that got so wide.
► 01:25:46
Yeah.
► 01:25:47
Ironically, no pun.
► 01:25:49
No pun.
► 01:25:50
Also, that she was a prostitute.
► 01:25:52
Yeah.
► 01:25:52
That was a heavily circulated rumor, which there's no evidence of that at all.
► 01:25:56
I mean, just from the, because we talked about this just a short while ago, so I was like, all right, let's get some info.
► 01:26:01
I mean, I saw stuff that was put out by like legit sources.
► 01:26:05
Yeah.
► 01:26:05
Which were wrong.
► 01:26:06
I mean, granted, maybe some of the stuff was just proved, but it's like we're just proving stuff wrong recently.
► 01:26:10
But it's like some of the stuff you're just like, holy shit.
► 01:26:12
And I know as a wrestling fan.
► 01:26:14
Well, hold on.
► 01:26:15
Okay.
► 01:26:16
Back to the wrestling in a second.
► 01:26:17
Yeah.
► 01:26:17
But the idea that she had, let's say, a tiny puss and wasn't capable of having sex is a conclusion that you could take away from the coroner's report saying she had female trouble.
► 01:26:28
Right.
► 01:26:29
So that is like if you are some sort of like AJ Benza asshole.
► 01:26:32
You're trying to thread a specific narrative.
Rushing the Narrative
00:04:25
► 01:26:34
Right.
► 01:26:34
Then you could say that and point to that.
► 01:26:36
Right.
► 01:26:36
But what you're doing then is discounting.
► 01:26:39
The indications of people who did have sex with her.
► 01:26:40
Because what this guy was saying was one of the people who was discussing this was like, it's funny, she'd meet these guys and then she'd have to run away from them.
► 01:26:49
Like, they found out something, and they're like, What they found out was that they were spending all this money on her, and then they found out there was no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow because they couldn't have sex with her.
► 01:26:58
But some of that might have also been that she didn't want to fuck just everybody.
► 01:27:02
So maybe the horrible reveal is like, I don't want to have sex with her.
► 01:27:06
I know.
► 01:27:06
So there could be that.
► 01:27:07
Sure.
► 01:27:08
Secondarily, she came from this crazy broken home where she thought her dad had committed suicide when she was five years old, only to find out that he was alive the whole time and had abandoned them.
► 01:27:17
Yeah.
► 01:27:18
How much fucking emotional issues would that create?
► 01:27:20
Yeah.
► 01:27:20
You could only imagine that this is the type of person who might get involved with somebody and then be completely incapable of handling intimacy and run away really quick.
► 01:27:28
You don't need to come up with a tiny puss excuse for this one.
► 01:27:31
Yeah.
► 01:27:32
Anyway.
► 01:27:33
I dated girls whose dads liked their sister more than them, and they were a handful.
► 01:27:36
Sure.
► 01:27:37
Yeah.
► 01:27:38
I don't want to get into my family.
► 01:27:42
So, at the end of the day, I don't.
► 01:27:45
God.
► 01:27:45
I mean, maybe none of them die.
► 01:27:46
I don't know.
► 01:27:47
It's very possible none of them are guilty.
► 01:27:49
I don't know why I'm thinking this was a team effort.
► 01:27:52
It was two buddies hanging out.
► 01:27:54
I don't, I just get this feeling that.
► 01:27:57
Do you think it's two of the suspects that they have who work together and we just don't know it?
► 01:28:00
God, that's, that is a sexy idea.
► 01:28:03
Like maybe the two doctors could be, you only really need one doctor though in this case.
► 01:28:08
Yeah.
► 01:28:08
Or like the doctor had like a little, like, like this, that, and I mean getting into H.H. Holmes, he had like a sidekick.
► 01:28:15
Sure.
► 01:28:15
But he was a drunk.
► 01:28:16
And he would tell people, yeah, Watson.
► 01:28:18
And he would tell people like sometimes, like, you know what happens in that house?
► 01:28:22
And they'd be like, ah, you're just a drunk.
► 01:28:23
But then they're like, but he probably.
► 01:28:24
And he ended up killing him.
► 01:28:26
That's the hide in plain sight version of the killing.
► 01:28:28
And just that idea of, you know, these powerful men had assistants or people who would kind of like, hey, man, I'm going to just keep my head down.
► 01:28:38
What you do is what you do.
► 01:28:40
And it's just like, clean the back room.
► 01:28:41
And you're like, oh, there's blood everywhere.
► 01:28:43
Well, I'm not going to ask what happened back there.
► 01:28:44
It's not my place.
► 01:28:45
Yeah.
► 01:28:46
I mean, obviously, with the way the body was, they had to know.
► 01:28:52
I mean, I hate to say this, but like, hypothetically, Yeah.
► 01:28:56
I kill somebody, and it's like, all right, what do I, I'm going to cut them in half, and then I'm going to drain their blood.
► 01:29:02
Like, okay.
► 01:29:03
Like, I wouldn't know the first, I mean, I know what to do, but I wouldn't know, like, what to do.
► 01:29:07
I really wouldn't know what to do.
► 01:29:08
You're right.
► 01:29:09
You'd know the basic things.
► 01:29:10
Like, we got to poke a hole somehow.
► 01:29:12
Somewhere I got to start.
► 01:29:13
I got to start carving this turkey somehow.
► 01:29:14
I don't know.
► 01:29:15
Belly button?
► 01:29:16
So, I wouldn't know what to do as far as that goes.
► 01:29:18
You need a consult.
► 01:29:20
Yeah, and I'd need some sort of, obviously, I'd need knives sharp enough to do that.
► 01:29:24
Sure, you'd need equipment.
► 01:29:26
I don't know.
► 01:29:26
I think, That again, what we got back to, and I think that's why this is a popular story.
► 01:29:30
Why we're talking about a lot of doctors, somebody had to know a little something about medical or a butcher, of course.
► 01:29:39
It was Michael Timlin, yeah, and dear friend and butcher, Michael Timlin.
► 01:29:43
And you have to know, or you have to have a place where you can do this, sure.
► 01:29:47
That's the other part that really is crazy.
► 01:29:49
That, like, how much of a mess would it be to cut someone in half?
► 01:29:53
What is also so creepy, and again, this goes back to the whole idea of like, I mean, the fact that someone did this is very creepy, but also the fact that, like, She is in a van or a truck or a car.
► 01:30:05
In half?
► 01:30:05
In half.
► 01:30:06
They, oh, this is it.
► 01:30:08
This is the spot.
► 01:30:09
I keep thinking it's two people.
► 01:30:10
But anyway, that's it.
► 01:30:10
She was found at 10 a.m., so I mean, you could have found it any time in the middle of the night.
► 01:30:14
I would assume dusk.
► 01:30:14
You know, they pull up.
► 01:30:16
When the headlights wouldn't cause too much of a.
► 01:30:18
Sure.
► 01:30:18
And they pull over, and then they.
► 01:30:21
But it's like, motherfucker.
► 01:30:22
It's pretty crazy.
► 01:30:23
That's insane to me that someone's.
► 01:30:24
It would take two trips if you were alone.
► 01:30:26
Here we go.
► 01:30:27
Would it?
► 01:30:28
I think.
► 01:30:29
No.
► 01:30:29
You wouldn't want to carry two halves either.
► 01:30:31
No, no, no.
► 01:30:31
Well, I mean, you're going to go back to.
► 01:30:32
The van or something.
► 01:30:33
That's what I mean.
► 01:30:34
Two trips.
► 01:30:34
Two trips from the van, not two trips to and from.
► 01:30:37
And imagine you're not just dumping them and going.
► 01:30:42
No.
► 01:30:42
I mean, like, I remember when we used to drink in high school.
► 01:30:44
Probably sitting there, like, staring for a little bit and being like, is that angle right?
► 01:30:48
That's the other thing, too.
► 01:30:49
Cause when we used to drink in high school, we'd, we'd put all the empties in a, um, garbage bag and then we would drive by our, the football coach's house and throw them out the window.
► 01:30:57
Hell yeah.
► 01:30:57
And fuck yeah.
► 01:30:58
And drive away.
Next Episode Not True Crime
00:07:52
► 01:30:59
And that was, I mean, that adrenaline rush alone was great.
► 01:31:02
But I mean, imagine you got to set up a bar.
► 01:31:04
You just gave me a weird eyebrow raise when you said that, which is scaring the shit out of me.
► 01:31:09
What a rush, Dan.
► 01:31:10
But then to think like, oh man, they're, they're doing this.
► 01:31:12
Yeah.
► 01:31:13
They're positioning, which makes me think they have a lot of, Knowledge of that area and of like, Dan, we're not going to arouse any suspicion.
► 01:31:21
Which is Dr. Bailey coming from the audience.
► 01:31:23
Which is Dr. Bailey, but I just don't understand how this is your first.
► 01:31:28
I know the degenerate brain thing and all this stuff, but I think he was also the guy who was friends with the artist.
► 01:31:35
I think.
► 01:31:36
So, you know, that's I heard the Man Ray, do Man Ray Black Dahlia or whatever.
► 01:31:41
If that's the case, he's guilty.
► 01:31:42
That's him.
► 01:31:43
Because I just feel like this was a total shout out to Man Ray and like, you know, your art's coming alive right now.
► 01:31:50
Oh, uh, maybe.
► 01:31:52
Hmm.
► 01:31:53
How do you spell fucking Man Ray?
► 01:31:54
I have no idea.
► 01:31:55
Do, like, surrealism and then Man Ray and see what happens.
► 01:31:58
Okay.
► 01:32:00
Um, you know, these surrealists, like Salvador Dali.
► 01:32:04
Is Man Ray one word or two?
► 01:32:06
I don't know, and I wish I knew.
► 01:32:08
I think it's one.
► 01:32:09
God, I know.
► 01:32:10
This is what's my favorite part there's someone at home listening to this right now.
► 01:32:13
It's like, why don't you look this up?
► 01:32:14
Who's just like, oh, you guys are such idiots.
► 01:32:16
Yeah.
► 01:32:17
I mean, we are, but.
► 01:32:18
Can you not find it?
► 01:32:19
Uh, no, I can't.
► 01:32:20
I'm just trying to figure out who he was associated with.
► 01:32:22
To me, I just feel like, uh,.
► 01:32:24
And I don't know.
► 01:32:25
And I know we want, you just want, that's the thing about all these stuff, where it's like, man, I put so much, I don't know about time and effort, but I put a lot of thought into this stuff, and you'll never get an answer.
► 01:32:38
No, that's sort of something that we have to make peace with.
► 01:32:40
You'll really never get an answer.
► 01:32:42
And I'd love an answer with a lot of these things, but you just won't get an answer, and that's such a bummer.
► 01:32:49
But I think that, I just, I don't know.
► 01:32:53
I'm just not into this idea that it's some 67 year old's first murder, unless.
► 01:32:58
You know, he's a prolific serial killer, and this is just one.
► 01:33:00
He got away with all the others.
► 01:33:02
This is just one that we're hearing about.
► 01:33:03
Yeah.
► 01:33:04
I mean, that's pretty tough to get away from in terms of everything else we know about serial killers.
► 01:33:09
And then getting into the face slashing, like, why?
► 01:33:11
What was that all about?
► 01:33:12
But that's where the man ray thing comes.
► 01:33:14
Yeah.
► 01:33:15
I couldn't figure out that.
► 01:33:16
I think it was Hodel.
► 01:33:16
Do man ray and then, like, lips.
► 01:33:19
Do we not know the spelling of man ray?
► 01:33:20
No, I think it is two words, man ray.
► 01:33:23
Okay.
► 01:33:23
I don't give a shit.
► 01:33:24
Who cares?
► 01:33:24
Well, I care, and I want to crack this case open.
► 01:33:27
Well, why don't you look it up?
► 01:33:28
Okay.
► 01:33:28
I want to crack this case open.
► 01:33:30
Man ray lips.
► 01:33:33
Well, and they say that's what the guy was trying to simulate with the.
► 01:33:41
No, bullshit.
► 01:33:42
No?
► 01:33:42
You're calling bullshit on that?
► 01:33:44
Yeah.
► 01:33:44
Okay.
► 01:33:44
Bullshit.
► 01:33:45
I'm looking at these.
► 01:33:46
These are just big lips.
► 01:33:47
These are not the Chelsea or Glasgow smile, as they call it.
► 01:33:53
No, these are just.
► 01:33:55
This is a picture of man rays where it's just big lips in the sky.
► 01:34:01
And it's not anatomically weird, overdone.
► 01:34:04
Mouth.
► 01:34:05
Okay.
► 01:34:05
But I do think my final assessment is that this makes no sense as a murder.
► 01:34:13
But the arms up in the air, Man Ray has a popular one with a woman's upper torso with the arms up in the air, which is similar to.
► 01:34:22
But so is any celebration.
► 01:34:24
I know.
► 01:34:25
I mean, that feels like grasping straws.
► 01:34:27
Although, I just saw a picture of the.
► 01:34:30
That's from the lipstick murderer.
► 01:34:31
The lipstick murderer.
► 01:34:32
Oh my God.
► 01:34:33
Yeah, he apparently had some connection to surrealism.
► 01:34:36
But.
► 01:34:38
I would say that this murder only makes sense as something personal or something artistic.
► 01:34:48
You know what I mean?
► 01:34:48
Or both.
► 01:34:49
Yeah, those are the only.
► 01:34:50
Absolutely.
► 01:34:51
Because it doesn't seem like it is part of a serial killer.
► 01:34:56
There's no other sensible connections to other people who have similar MOs.
► 01:35:04
There aren't like a chain of Dahlia ish murders.
► 01:35:07
Except for the Cleveland torso murders, but that's even, I mean, that's way too far away for this one dot to be over here, and it's not the same.
► 01:35:15
I know, but there are some photos.
► 01:35:17
God, I'm like, we'll put this on Facebook.
► 01:35:18
No, I don't think we can put this on Facebook.
► 01:35:19
No, absolutely not.
► 01:35:21
But even that picture you just showed me is unconvincing in any way.
► 01:35:24
Yeah, I know.
► 01:35:25
I think that perhaps George Bailey had a closer relationship to her than is led on.
► 01:35:33
Yeah.
► 01:35:33
She may have gotten pregnant, needed an abortion, blah, That's sort of the.
► 01:35:37
Because anything else doesn't.
► 01:35:40
Also.
► 01:35:42
I don't know.
► 01:35:42
Fuck.
► 01:35:43
I don't know.
► 01:35:43
I don't know.
► 01:35:43
Who cares?
► 01:35:44
Not who cares, but like.
► 01:35:46
Yeah, I know.
► 01:35:47
We got to go.
► 01:35:48
It's just tough, and it's just.
► 01:35:50
Like I said, I want answers.
► 01:35:51
I want answers to you.
► 01:35:52
I do too.
► 01:35:52
I know you don't care.
► 01:35:53
You just love it being all ambiguous.
► 01:35:55
I was kidding.
► 01:35:55
No, no.
► 01:35:55
It's not that I don't care.
► 01:35:56
It's that we'll never get to the bottom of this.
► 01:35:58
I know, and I would love to.
► 01:36:00
I hope people thought this was a good episode.
► 01:36:02
I think they will.
► 01:36:02
Next episode, not going to be true crime.
► 01:36:04
Not true crime.
► 01:36:05
We're going to get off the true crime tip, and we're going to get into some real weird stuff.
► 01:36:10
Please do feel free to send us any topics that you'd like us to talk about.
► 01:36:13
How can they send that to you, Dan?
► 01:36:15
Either on Twitter, at.
► 01:36:16
Freezingpoint or at Marty DeRosa to you.
► 01:36:18
Yeah.
► 01:36:19
Also, freezingpoint.com.
► 01:36:21
I have a contact me section on there.
► 01:36:23
Please feel free to come check out all the podcasts and send me an email through there.
► 01:36:27
Also, MartyDeRosa.com.
► 01:36:28
MartyDeRosaWrestlingWithDepression.com.
► 01:36:31
Okay.
► 01:36:31
WrestlingWithDepression.com.
► 01:36:32
Yeah.
► 01:36:33
Also, your new weekly podcast.
► 01:36:35
Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling.
► 01:36:37
It's just taken over the game.
► 01:36:38
It's taken over the game.
► 01:36:39
No longer wrestling without depression.
► 01:36:42
This is confusing.
► 01:36:42
It's still in the wrestling with depression feed for just a few more weeks.
► 01:36:45
And then we have a very big announcement.
► 01:36:47
We are moving to a very sexy new home.
► 01:36:50
With a secret passageway.
► 01:36:53
Yeah.
► 01:36:54
Anyway, rest in peace, Elizabeth Short.
► 01:36:56
Yeah, I'm sorry I happened to you.
► 01:36:58
Yeah, that's a real bummer, but hey.
► 01:37:01
Probably lizard people committed the murder, and the government's behind everything, and I'm doing this wrong.
► 01:37:08
Yeah, you reverse it.
► 01:37:10
Reverse it.
► 01:37:10
Hold on.
► 01:37:11
You and I can never do this right.
► 01:37:12
Take two, Dan.
► 01:37:14
You know, it was probably a thing where she had a jilted lover who was mad that her pussy was too small to fuck, and he'd spent a lot of money on her.
► 01:37:22
And he was really mad, so he decided he'd take her out to this field and cut her in half and drain her blood.
► 01:37:29
And, you know, it was no big deal.
► 01:37:30
It was just a murder.
► 01:37:31
And the reason that they've never found a viable suspect or anything like that is because police were very bad in the 40s.
► 01:37:40
And, you know, they just weren't good at their jobs.
► 01:37:42
There's nothing really too weird going on here.
► 01:37:45
It's just a fucked up murder.
► 01:37:46
That's what they want you to think.
► 01:37:52
You've listened to That's What They Want You to Think.
► 01:37:56
Brought to you by Squaresoft.
► 01:37:59
Wait, the video game developers?
► 01:38:00
Squaresoft.
► 01:38:01
I don't know.
► 01:38:02
I think that's a podcast.
► 01:38:03
I mean, a way to make a website.
► 01:38:04
No, that's Squarespace.
► 01:38:06
Squaresoft, I think, made like.
► 01:38:08
Qbert.
► 01:38:10
You've just listened to That's What They Want You to Think.
► 01:38:12
Brought to you by Qbert.
► 01:38:13
Here's what I want you to do now smoke a joint, get online, Google Black Dahlia, plus Man Ray, plus photos.
► 01:38:23
Don't do that.
► 01:38:24
Get real creeped out.
► 01:38:25
Don't do that.
► 01:38:26
And when you're in your bed and you're listening to all this, Wait for the patented.
► 01:38:31
That's what they want you to think.
► 01:38:34
Knock on the door.
► 01:38:35
Guys, thank you so much for listening.
► 01:38:36
Marty?
► 01:38:37
Yes.
► 01:38:37
Thanks for joining me on this adventure.
► 01:38:39
Thanks for having me.
► 01:38:40
Let's go do a show.
► 01:38:41
Let's do it.
► 01:38:42
Guys, we will catch you next time right here in Boomtown.
► 01:38:45
But until then, I've been Boglejub, the White Mystery.
► 01:38:48
Now, please go out there and do your job, which, of course, is loving somebody.