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July 17, 2017 - Knowledge Fight - Bonus
01:27:02
Jack The Ripper

First Point hosts return to true crime after a fluoride detour, recounting Marty's surreal firing by Violent J at the Gathering of the Juggalos before dissecting Jack the Ripper's 1888 Whitechapel spree. They analyze the five canonical murders, from street stabbings to Mary Jane Kelly's graphic evisceration, debating suspects like Charles Lechmere and copycat theories while rejecting royal conspiracies. Ultimately, the enduring mythos persists not due to secret societies or folklore, but because the lack of definitive proof keeps the shabby killer's identity forever elusive. [Automatically generated summary]

Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Participants
Main
dan friesen
36:45
m
marty derosa
35:51

Speaker Time Text
Murdering Favorite Topics 00:02:11
unidentified
All I do is smash heads, bro.
marty derosa
That's what they want you to think.
That's what they want you to think.
That is what they want you to think.
That is what they want you to think.
And you to think.
We're getting back.
To murder all of your favorite topics.
unidentified
We got it.
Yeah.
Wait for it.
marty derosa
Prostitutes getting murdered, chopped into a million pieces.
Was it the work of one man or two men, or was it a member of the royal family?
dan friesen
All right, I gotta cut this off.
marty derosa
You'll just have to wait.
dan friesen
Hey, welcome back to First Point.
Sorry.
God.
Yeah.
Dude, here's why I had to cut that off.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
You're just telling the whole story in the intro.
That was basically like, you know, uh.
marty derosa
You want to re-record it?
dan friesen
No, it was great.
Uh, do you know, you remember like Will Smith whenever you do songs for soundtracks?
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
You just tell the plot of the movie?
marty derosa
It's perfect.
dan friesen
Like Wild Wild West is just the plot of the movie.
unidentified
Guess what?
marty derosa
Still saw Men in Black and still loved it.
dan friesen
Yeah, I know, but it's like, come on, man.
marty derosa
He really was like, I remember that too though for the Bobby Brown, uh, Ghostbusters 2 theme song.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
They in control.
You, you, you know it.
I don't even remember that song.
Like, he did the whole, he did the whole song.
I do like a good storytelling song.
dan friesen
Loveless, he didn't have a dime, nothing less.
Now I must put his behind to the test.
From the start of this, with Artemis, run in the game.
marty derosa
Is that from the pursuit of happiness?
dan friesen
That's, yep, that's from Rain Over Me.
That was Jamie Foxx.
Plotting Movie Soundtracks 00:04:59
dan friesen
Shit, I'm sorry.
unidentified
Oh, nevermind.
dan friesen
Uh, Marty, welcome back.
This is, that's what they want you to think.
marty derosa
Dan, it's good to be back.
Uh, I have, I have, uh, just been overwhelmed by all the, Outcry of support and love we got for that fluoride episode.
dan friesen
The fluoride babies are coming out of the woodwork.
unidentified
Oh, man.
dan friesen
Yeah, it's us.
Who knew?
Yeah, I mean, I know we got some positive feedback, but also people want us to get back to what we do best, which is talking about murder.
marty derosa
They said, guys, if we want to hear about fucking water, we'll listen to the water podcasts.
dan friesen
Which, by the way, you should check out on iTunes.
The water podcast is amazing.
They did a propel episode.
marty derosa
Oh, yeah.
dan friesen
Holy shit.
marty derosa
Yeah, propel.
What's up with that?
That was a great episode.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
But no, this is.
I don't know.
I think we're at our best when we're talking about.
dan friesen
Did you hear the Perrier?
Perrier!
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
marty derosa
Perrier or Perrier?
unidentified
Nay.
marty derosa
I do think we're at our best when we're talking about murder.
dan friesen
Creepy, spooky things.
Speaking of which, we talked about this in passing on the last episode, but I wanted to hear a little bit more about it.
Recently, you went to the Gathering of the Juggalos.
unidentified
I did.
dan friesen
Now, does this have any conspiracy implications, do you think?
Do you think it's a psyop?
Do you think it's a honeypot?
marty derosa
Please explain.
dan friesen
You don't know what a honeypot is?
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
Basically, it would be like when a really attractive woman would seduce a spy for the government and then try and get information or murder them.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
It's like you try and attract people that you're targeting to a place so you can.
marty derosa
Well, if that was the case.
No, it was very interesting.
It showed me.
dan friesen
So you don't think it's a honeypot?
unidentified
No.
No.
marty derosa
I think it's almost a utopia.
dan friesen
Conspiracy websites are often considered to be honeypots because you bring in all the like minded people and now you can tag them.
unidentified
Now we get to it.
marty derosa
Basically, yeah.
It was interesting.
It's in Ohio now.
It was in Illinois.
The police presence there was much more laid back.
In Illinois.
In Illinois.
dan friesen
Back in the cave in rock days.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
In Illinois, it was the cops were not allowed on the property.
It was private property.
dan friesen
So they would just post up outside.
marty derosa
They would post up, and we, meaning me and my wrestler friends, would leave for the night.
We had a hotel, then we'd come back in the morning.
dan friesen
You didn't want to camp out?
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
We had a hotel.
dan friesen
You're a weirdo.
marty derosa
We had a hotel.
dan friesen
Why don't you get the immersive experience?
marty derosa
Let's get a shower.
Let's relax.
dan friesen
You don't want to shower in Faygo?
marty derosa
I do not want to shower in Faygo.
dan friesen
But when we would leave, they would go, hey, by the way, there's fluoride in Faygo.
marty derosa
There's fluoride in the Faygo.
So they would be like, what are you guys doing?
Are you leaving?
Are you guys fucked up or not?
You know, and then we would leave.
This place in Ohio, Thornsville, Ohio, the cops were on the premises.
And I mean, you had people with signs like cocaine, marijuana.
dan friesen
The cops didn't do anything?
marty derosa
No.
One girl was arrested.
unidentified
Okay.
marty derosa
This was great, too.
dan friesen
What was she doing?
marty derosa
Well, we went up to the cops and we go, hey, can we ask you a question?
And they're like, sure.
We're like, what did you arrest that girl for earlier today?
And they go, she got in a fight, which I saw zero fights.
dan friesen
That's amazing.
marty derosa
I guarantee a Lollapalooza there were fights.
dan friesen
Oh, for sure.
marty derosa
I guarantee it.
dan friesen
You don't fight with family.
marty derosa
You don't.
And it was fun too because we were watching Violent Jay perform his masterpiece, Wizard of the Hood, which is his sort of ode to Wizard of Oz.
Stage production value off the charts.
dan friesen
Wait, it's a play?
marty derosa
It's essentially a play.
dan friesen
So it's basically like a concept album?
marty derosa
Yeah.
dan friesen
That's amazing.
marty derosa
And during it, someone shot a firework off kind of close to us, and everyone turned around, like if you were the guy who lit it off, everyone's like, hey, That's not cool.
And the guy was like, I didn't do it.
And then one guy goes, I saw you do it.
That is not cool.
And he just goes, You're right.
I'm sorry.
dan friesen
That's interesting that this lawless society over time has created its own self policing.
marty derosa
It was very interesting.
And there were nights where it would be like three in the morning and I was walking around and I kind of went, This might just be the future.
You know what I mean?
Like it was very post apocalyptic.
dan friesen
There's a commune aspect to it.
You have to tell me that only pops up once a year.
marty derosa
And for some reason or for some, somehow throughout their.
Almost 20 years now, they have sort of instituted some rules and some sort of common rules.
Rules, really?
Where it's like.
dan friesen
That's permission for the Nedden hole.
marty derosa
The what hole?
dan friesen
You don't know about Nedden?
marty derosa
What's Nedden?
dan friesen
You've been to the gathering of the Juggalos twice and you don't know about Nedden?
marty derosa
What's Nedden?
dan friesen
That's their slang for puss, bro.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
dan friesen
Talking about Neddens.
marty derosa
Oh, I'm sorry.
dan friesen
I'm a ninja.
Gotta get up in that Nedden.
marty derosa
Oh, that's why so many women were asking me if I'd enjoyed it.
Getting that netting.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
I didn't know what they were talking about.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
You're like, what?
Are you talking about a hammock?
unidentified
Netting?
marty derosa
That was the other thing.
I was just like, it's so hot here.
Who's fucking?
It was so hot.
unidentified
Everybody.
marty derosa
But I'll say this about the Juggalos.
dan friesen
I don't believe you didn't bang some Juggalos.
unidentified
No.
No.
What?
No.
marty derosa
Once again.
dan friesen
Marty's winking at me as he says no.
unidentified
Shut up.
I am not.
marty derosa
Once again, I'll say this about the Juggalos.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Free water.
The water was prevalent.
dan friesen
That's amazing because most festivals don't do that kind of shit at all.
marty derosa
Yeah, man.
dan friesen
They want to gouge you.
What Is Nedden 00:09:29
marty derosa
They were like, hey, it's real hot here.
So there's free water at this location, this location.
I mean, Also, the food was reasonably priced.
It was, it was, I enjoyed it.
dan friesen
That's great.
marty derosa
And you could bring your own food if you wanted.
dan friesen
It's amazing that you have such positive things to say considering you got fired.
marty derosa
The only negative thing I will say is I was unceremoniously fired by Violent J.
dan friesen
The way you described it, because you talked about this on your podcast, Wrestling with Depression, a little bit.
And the way it sounded to me was that he, Violent J didn't know you were even gonna be there.
marty derosa
I was, yeah, here's what I think happened.
Uh, I think happened Here's what I think happened.
Yeah, Violent J was unaware that I was hired to be the ring announcer for Friday and Saturday's Juggalo Championship Wrestling festivities.
dan friesen
JC Dub.
marty derosa
JC Dub.
dan friesen
Friday was Officer Colt Cabana in appearance.
unidentified
He was.
Yeah.
marty derosa
And I got fired right before I got to announce him, which is kind of a bummer because I thought that would have been a fun little thing.
So, I was ring announcing Friday night.
That wasn't tape.
That was just for the live crowd.
It was awesome.
It was real fun.
And then the next day was the one that was to be recorded for DVD sales.
And we're rolling.
I'm getting the hang of it.
I flubbed a couple things here and there.
It's interesting to be out of your element when you're used to doing a couple things that you're like, I can podcast.
I can perform stand up.
You get a little like, ooh, this is a little different and try and get stuffed in.
dan friesen
Doing the announcing is a lot of pressure because you're actually responding to.
marty derosa
Things right also, wrestlers, especially in these, a lot of these new wrestlers, ask me like where I'm from, what's my weight, or whatever.
Ask me, like, you're the ring announcer, which you should be.
Uh, Chicago, Illinois, what's your weight?
173 pounds.
Okay, all right, here's every guy there.
dan friesen
Uh, what's your weight?
marty derosa
Oh, no, no, oh, sorry, where are you from?
Uh, from the deepest regions of your mind's depths of Satan.
dan friesen
Yikes, how much do you weigh?
marty derosa
Uh, 173 and one quarter and a half.
pounds.
I'm just like, bro, you're fucking killing me.
One guy goes, you have to say and a quarter or otherwise I'll get hurt and that'll be on you.
I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ.
dan friesen
Wait, like, he was saying that you jinxed him and he was doing 204 and one quarter pounds.
marty derosa
I'm like, girl, he's, but if you got, you gotta say and a quarter because if you don't, I'll get hurt and that's fucking on you.
dan friesen
Well, you know why he was saying that is because he knew that his opponent would have to prepare for that quarter pounds.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And if he didn't, he would misjudge some of his moves.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
And that quarter really, I mean, that was also the other day I realized how dumb I am.
I go, God, I go, uh, I go half.
unidentified
A quarter.
marty derosa
I go, God, I wish there was something in between.
dan friesen
Well, there might be a few fractions.
marty derosa
Yeah, I know.
dan friesen
You know, it's fun, though.
That quarter is just, that's a burger right there.
marty derosa
Yeah, man.
Perfect.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Perfect.
Quarter pounder is perfect.
You don't need to be just big.
I'm not a big burger guy.
dan friesen
You don't want the monster burger?
unidentified
Nope.
marty derosa
Not interested.
dan friesen
You don't want the angry whopper?
marty derosa
I am ring announcing night two.
We are off to a ruckus start.
dan friesen
When you say ring announcing, you're doing the Michael Buffers.
marty derosa
Ladies and gentlemen, the following contest is a three way lightbulb match scheduled for one fall.
The only way to win is to smash a light bulb over it.
Man, the light bulb matches.
dan friesen
That sounds horrifying.
marty derosa
So I'm doing that.
Everything's good.
And then I was told there was going to be some violent Jay will be showing up at some point.
I was told he's going to induct Rude Boy into the JCW Hall of Fame.
dan friesen
Wow, that's a big moment.
marty derosa
Basically, I'd be handing off the mic to them.
And then there was some idea too of they have a regular ring announcer named Legs Diamond.
unidentified
Okay.
marty derosa
And he's a juggle, he's a psychopathic recording artist.
Psychopathic records recording, not a psychopathic recording artist.
dan friesen
Maybe there's overlap.
marty derosa
Yeah, that would be, uh, I'm trying to think of who's a maniac.
dan friesen
Uh, anybody killer?
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
Maybe?
marty derosa
Sure.
Uh, so I am, uh, I'm, I'm told that he might come to do the main event.
I'm like, no problem.
Uh, and then they're like, so then we're getting ready.
And there's a little chaos, you know, there's a little like, oh, they're not ready yet.
This is going to happen now.
Violent J can only be there for a certain amount of time.
He's got to go do other stuff.
dan friesen
I can't imagine how intense it would be to announce Violent J. At the gathering.
marty derosa
Well, I got to, I got to introduce Shaggy Toodope.
dan friesen
That's still pretty intense.
marty derosa
He's one of the ring announcers along with Kevin Gill.
Uh, and, and, uh, Kevin's a buddy of mine who's a podcaster as well.
He's the co host of Conan's podcast.
unidentified
Okay.
marty derosa
He has his own podcast.
Uh, so I'm out there, I'm doing my job, and then I come backstage.
I would kind of go backstage, check in, everybody ready to go.
Uh, and, and then I'm told, uh, uh, I hear like, that's, that's him.
That's Marty.
unidentified
Ooh.
marty derosa
Violent Jacob's walking over.
dan friesen
You never want to hear that.
marty derosa
Violent Jacob's walking over to me.
unidentified
Come here.
Come here.
marty derosa
I'm like, hey, what's up?
And he's like, I don't know who the fuck you are.
unidentified
Oof.
But you're done.
dan friesen
In this business.
unidentified
Yeah, basically.
marty derosa
And he's like, our ring announcer is Legs Diamond.
He's been our ring announcer since day one.
And I'm just like, and he's like, I don't know who told you you were the ring announcer.
Like, I just fucking went in there and decided, hey, you know what I'm going to do?
Like, I tied up Legs Diamond.
Yeah.
And I've got a fucking sock in his mouth and duct tape, you know what I mean, around it.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So I'm just like, you jumped him and stole his shirt.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
Like, oh, like, they pull my mask off.
unidentified
You ain't Legs Diamond.
marty derosa
And also.
dan friesen
Hey, I'm trying to be a little huskier and the voice got a little bit of a huskier voice.
unidentified
He does.
marty derosa
And he goes, uh, I don't know who the fuck you are.
And I've heard you've been doing a fine job.
unidentified
Oh, that's nice of him.
marty derosa
He's doing a great job.
I don't care.
unidentified
That's regardless.
marty derosa
Legs is the ring announcer.
And I'm like, okay.
At least he gave you that sort of like, but then we were having this little miscommunique where I think he thought I was upset.
And I was like, okay, I don't think he can hear great because of all the years of performing.
dan friesen
And Vicodin.
marty derosa
And he goes, don't get, like in wrestling, it's don't get hot.
unidentified
Uh huh.
marty derosa
Don't get mad.
unidentified
Don't get hot.
marty derosa
I'm like, I'm not, I'm totally fine.
dan friesen
I think he saw your tattoos.
marty derosa
I know you're getting, I was wearing a sport coat.
unidentified
Oh.
marty derosa
I know you're getting mad.
Don't get mad.
I'm like, I'm not mad.
You're mad.
I'm like, I'm not mad.
dan friesen
My favorite thing in the world is when someone is trying to talk you down when they're not mad.
unidentified
And I go.
dan friesen
That's just gonna make you mad.
marty derosa
Cause in my mind, I'm like, cool, I could take all this shit off, it's a thousand degrees, and I can go sit on the side of the stage and watch my friends wrestle.
unidentified
Yeah.
Fuck yeah.
dan friesen
The more important question I have is, was he in makeup when he wrestled?
marty derosa
Yes, and then I'm watching, and then, and then, as this is happening, I'm going, I'm getting fucking fired by a man.
In white clown makeup.
dan friesen
And the surreal.
marty derosa
And I'm like, and I'm looking, I'm like, he even paints the beard.
Like, the beard's even painted.
Like, this is fucked up.
dan friesen
It would be so surreal to be, first of all, fired by a guy in clown makeup.
But then the second part of it is like, don't get mad.
marty derosa
I know.
The clown being like, that's up there with, it looks cool.
That's up there with you leaving like a bar and someone's like, yeah, get out of here.
And you're like, I am leaving.
unidentified
I already want to leave.
marty derosa
Now I have to stay.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Just to prove a point.
dan friesen
You're getting punked for no reason.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
But that's probably not his intent.
Probably.
marty derosa
I know.
And I get it too.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
I get it.
It would be no different than if we were having, like, you know, the, the 10 year anniversary of Comedians You Should Know.
And I was like, why isn't one of us hosting the show?
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
You know, like, why, why is this new person hosting the show?
dan friesen
Maybe they're a new member of Comedians You Should Know.
And, uh, you know, the, the, the.
marty derosa
Listen, I don't know who the fuck you are.
dan friesen
Marty, that, by the way, is like, that's like a year and a half away, right?
Yeah, 10 years is fast approaching.
marty derosa
But I was just kind of like, okay, this is totally fine.
And it was just one of those, and what I talked about when I was discussing this, On wrestling with depression, was years ago that would have sent me into a bit of a tailspin.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
I would have felt disrespected.
I would have felt, ooh.
dan friesen
Years ago, you might have gotten hot.
unidentified
I might have gotten hot, Dane.
dan friesen
It's possible.
marty derosa
I might have.
dan friesen
Or anybody else who was in that position who would see it as, like, this is my next step or something like that.
marty derosa
And I know that this, and maybe this is a bit of a, I'm not trying to be a brag or whatever, but this isn't the biggest thing I've ever done.
It's not like you were like, hey, Marty, we're going to put you on TV to do stand up.
And then right before I did it, they're like, I don't know who the fuck you are, but you're not doing this.
That would have been different.
dan friesen
All comedian is Legs Diamond.
marty derosa
Right, If, like, yeah, if, you know, I'm about to.
dan friesen
Conan is Legs Diamond.
marty derosa
I'm about to go out on Conan and he's like, I don't know who the fuck you are, but you're not Legs Diamond.
He's gonna go out there and perform.
dan friesen
I would love it if for the rest of your life that's just a runner and Legs Diamond keeps taking away your opportunities.
marty derosa
I know, and then I, then I Googled Legs Diamond.
I had to see what this deal, what this guy's deal is.
unidentified
Uh huh.
marty derosa
Uh, I love what they did here, or what he did here.
dan friesen
Legs with a Z?
marty derosa
Legs with a Z. Love it.
The original Legs Diamond.
Old gangster.
dan friesen
Really?
unidentified
Love it.
marty derosa
I love that.
dan friesen
Okay, yeah.
marty derosa
Hats off to you, Legs Diamond.
dan friesen
Sure, like Carlton Fisk.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
Wait, that was a baseball player, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Never mind.
There was a rapper named Carlton Fisk.
marty derosa
I loved it.
Yeah, I like that.
I like the repurposed names.
dan friesen
Especially when it's someone like Legs Diamond is not Bugsy Malone.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
Like Al Capone.
marty derosa
It's good on so many levels.
dan friesen
Sweet spot.
marty derosa
Like, I imagine him with a notebook being like, I got a couple names here I'm going to throw at you guys.
And then one of them was Legs Diamond.
dan friesen
Right.
marty derosa
And they're like, What was that all about?
Oh, he was a gangster, German gangster in the.
unidentified
Don't get hot.
Don't get hot.
dan friesen
Now I'm just imagining Violent J assuming everyone's mad all the time.
marty derosa
I know.
dan friesen
His name is Violent J.
marty derosa
Yeah, can I get a number two with no cheese?
unidentified
Don't get hot.
marty derosa
And then you're supposed to come back at me like, What would you like to drink?
Repurposed Gangster Names 00:10:04
dan friesen
I'm sorry.
What would you like to drink?
marty derosa
Can I.
Oh, don't get hot.
dan friesen
See, now my mind, remember.
marty derosa
You're coming at me all wrong.
dan friesen
Do you remember the McDLT?
marty derosa
Yeah, I do.
With half on, cold on one side, hot and cold.
dan friesen
Don't get hot.
unidentified
Don't let it hot.
marty derosa
Leave the lettuce, the tomato, the bun on that side.
dan friesen
Yeah.
Well, I'm sorry that that happened, but I'm glad it sounded like a really awesome time.
unidentified
Ah.
dan friesen
You know, other than that.
marty derosa
Other than that.
dan friesen
And even the firing has led to some really funny things.
You know, like that story is hilarious.
marty derosa
That's something that will work its way into my stand up comedy routine, my sketch.
dan friesen
Don't get hot can be a quote for maybe the rest of your life.
marty derosa
Don't get hot.
unidentified
Don't get hot.
marty derosa
Also, I'm looking at him like, God, you've lost a lot of weight.
You look great.
dan friesen
That's great.
marty derosa
Also, he was like, yeah.
What?
He was bickering with this girl backstage, too.
He had a lot of stuff going on.
dan friesen
I'm bad.
marty derosa
Also, this is this guy's festival.
He's in charge of it.
He had a million things going on.
dan friesen
It's a billion dollar operation.
marty derosa
Then some jack offs ring announcing who he doesn't want to ring announce.
I understand.
dan friesen
Yeah, for sure.
You know what I understand?
It's time for us to get to the business at hand.
unidentified
Yes.
That's what.
I can't think of the year.
dan friesen
1888, ladies and gentlemen.
We take you back to 1888.
marty derosa
Do you remember the first time you heard of Jack the Ripper?
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
I remember.
dan friesen
I'm sorry that my answer does not lead to a good story, but no, I don't.
marty derosa
I remember a CBS miniseries back in the day when I was a little kid.
My mom let me watch it, and I remember being like, whoa.
dan friesen
So you're a wee baby Marty.
marty derosa
It was definitely one of the early.
Sort of tastes I got into the world of serial killers.
dan friesen
It's sort of like one of the first times you realize this shit can happen.
marty derosa
And being like, yum, yum, yum, I want more.
unidentified
Whoa.
marty derosa
Like I was like, I was fucking into this.
I remember even being like, can I go to the library and get a book on Jack the Ripper?
Like I was like, this is fascinating.
dan friesen
So you had like a taste for the macabre even as a very young boy.
marty derosa
Yes, but what I think helped was there was a bit of a disconnect with it being in the 1800s and you got your, you know, how.
Horse-drawn carriages, and it's London, it's not Cherville, Indiana.
So it didn't seem to me.
dan friesen
You had horse-drawn carriages in Cherville.
marty derosa
We did not.
dan friesen
No one could afford a car.
marty derosa
We had no brick streets or whatever, cobblestone streets.
No, it was, to me, it was just kind of like, it's, it was like.
dan friesen
It's a whole other world.
marty derosa
It was another world.
It was, it might as well have been watching Star Wars.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I had the same thing, but, uh, what really resonated for me when I was a kid was like, uh, people getting lost on islands.
Like Robinson Caruso, Swiss Family Robinson, that's what it was.
marty derosa
As primitive as can be.
dan friesen
Sure, Gilligan, even though that show frustrated me to no end.
I fucking hated that show.
It's like, what the fuck?
Marianne's so much hotter, first of all.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
They should just tie up Gilligan.
unidentified
You ruined everything.
You ruined everything.
No.
dan friesen
Every single plan they have gets screwed up by Gilligan.
Take him out of the equation.
You don't have to kill him, but lock him up.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Anyway, I had deep fantasies of going to an island and just being left there or something.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
My fantasies are about being left alone.
That's basically it.
But murder for me wasn't as viscerally as it is for you, apparently.
marty derosa
Yeah.
I really do remember it.
And I remember just like being like, wow, this is fascinating.
dan friesen
Was it a function of fear for you?
marty derosa
I think fear, but also like, I want more.
I want more.
Like, I think it was probably like, wow, this is actually a thing.
dan friesen
Who was your favorite serial killer growing up?
Did you have one?
marty derosa
Well, as a kid, I think definitely I probably talked about Jack the Ripper quite a bit.
But I think, like, I remember.
dan friesen
Were you an Ed Gein man?
marty derosa
I was not an Ed Gein guy.
dan friesen
Okay.
marty derosa
I was not an Ed Gein guy.
Uh, I was, I was big on, um, uh, fish.
No, uh, I would always, cause being from Chicago, um, the lipstick killer, Spectre.
Oh, no, not the lipstick killer.
You just fucking opened my mind up to that one.
We freaked a lot of people out with that one.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Down the street, my man.
marty derosa
Um, who's the, who's the sorority killer?
The, the guy who was the, Green River killer?
No, Uh, oh man, I can't, I'm fucking freezing on his name.
unidentified
I got nothing.
marty derosa
Uh, Spec, uh, Richard Spec?
Hold on.
Um, so anyway, he like slaughtered a whole fucking, Um, Richard Speck slaughtered.
dan friesen
You think of Spectre?
marty derosa
No, no, no.
unidentified
Oh.
marty derosa
Richard Speck slaughtered a whole fucking, uh, sorority house.
unidentified
How?
marty derosa
Uh, he just went from room to room.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
So it was functioning as a dormitory for student nurses, armed with only a knife.
unidentified
Um, damn.
marty derosa
So he murdered them.
I just basically went from, like, room to room.
He was high on both alcohol and drugs.
Uh, he made originally just, uh, was gonna do a routine burglary, but.
unidentified
And he helped.
dan friesen
He changed his plans pretty hard.
marty derosa
Spec held the women in a room for hours, leading them out one by one, stabbing or strangling them to death, then finally raping and strangling his last victim.
So, Spec now, but then, that's horrible.
But then, and I remember this as a young kid, there was a video that came out of him in prison, and he was taking hormones.
He had breasts.
He was getting all fucked up, and they were like, he was trying to transition, or some people thought he was like punishing him.
It was really weird shit.
But anyway, I remember seeing that and being like, whoa.
And then I remember, you know, hold on.
Yeah, like, there was a video they found from an anonymous attorney, and this was a big Bill Curtis.
unidentified
Bill Curtis.
marty derosa
He was a big Chicago news guy.
He's the guy who was on as the narrator of Anchorman.
dan friesen
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
marty derosa
Anyway, you know, they were just like this video of them in prison, just doing drugs.
Money was.
Being passed around.
dan friesen
Wait, Bill and him?
marty derosa
No, no, no, no.
He reported about this.
dan friesen
Oh, I thought my mind went to Bill Curtis and this guy.
marty derosa
Richard Specks in the middle performing oral sex on another inmate.
They're doing cocaine.
He's got silk panties on.
It was very weird.
dan friesen
That's not how prison should be.
marty derosa
They were smuggling in hormones to him.
But anyway, so that was a thing.
And then I remember hearing.
dan friesen
I don't know how that has never come to my attention.
That's a crazy story.
marty derosa
Oh, yeah.
And I think my mom.
dan friesen
We should have done that instead of fluoride.
marty derosa
Yeah, I know.
And then I think my mom, like.
Told me about that one one time, and I was like, woo, that's weird.
And then I don't know how, like, I was at the right age for Dahmer.
dan friesen
Sure.
marty derosa
And then my brother was living in Milwaukee at the time, and it was kind of like, whoa.
dan friesen
And Dahmer was such an against type of the serial killer stories we hear.
marty derosa
Yeah.
I was big on Ted Bundy.
I remember hearing about Bundy because I liked King Kong Bundy.
So the name rang a bell.
dan friesen
Bundy was the clown, right?
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
Who's the clown?
marty derosa
Doink.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
Not King Kong Bundy, the murderer.
marty derosa
Pogo the clown?
dan friesen
I'm talking about the murderer.
marty derosa
John Wayne Gacy?
dan friesen
That's it, sorry.
That shows my brain fart in terms of.
As much as we've covered weird death and stuff like that, it's really not my biggest cup of tea.
Watching shows about stuff like true crime and murder stuff often makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
I mean, not a pleasant uncomfortable.
The show Fear, that makes me uncomfortable in a pleasant way.
Watching kids freak out in abandoned buildings and stuff, that's fun.
marty derosa
I. What I think is interesting is that idea that, like, you know, these guys walked among us.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
And, like, in Chicago, if you talk to anybody who's lived here for a while, they'll be like, oh, I had a cousin who got grabbed by Gacy or almost got grabbed by Gacy.
dan friesen
Sure, sure.
I've heard a couple stories like that.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
Or Milwaukee, you'll hear some Dahmer related stuff.
That's kind of fascinating.
dan friesen
I think some of those people are lying.
marty derosa
Sure.
dan friesen
I think there's a bit of that.
marty derosa
Sure.
Or it's a bit of, like, You know, could you and I technically say we know somebody who knows this person?
dan friesen
Sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
Maybe.
dan friesen
It's that bacon game, but with murderers.
unidentified
It is.
dan friesen
Seven Degrees of Jack the Ripper.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
So, but going back to Jack the Ripper, that at the time, I don't know if my little brain could wrap around the idea that, like, this was a real person, or we'll get into that, but who really murdered people.
dan friesen
And never was caught.
marty derosa
Because I think also at that time, I think.
Jack the Ripper and my older brother would tell me.
I would kind of ask him about it.
He was kind of my Google or my Wikipedia at the time for stuff.
And we had encyclopedias, so I could look up stuff in encyclopedias.
So, you'd get kind of a sanitized version of some of this stuff, like Jack the Ripper.
And I remember kind of thinking, like, oh, there was Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolfman, Picture from the Black Lagoon, and Jack the Ripper.
dan friesen
Yeah, he almost goes into legendary status as opposed to a real thing.
marty derosa
Sure.
And then I think he's.
dan friesen
Well, but I mean, to be fair, Dracula is based on a real person, too, though.
unidentified
I know.
marty derosa
And we would have done that if you fuckers voted for it.
unidentified
Yeah.
One of these days.
marty derosa
And I also remember, like, in comics, I was a big comic book kid growing up.
And I do remember there was sort of that cartooned and almost movie version again of Jack the Ripper, top hat, you know, cloak, medicine bag.
You know, there were all that.
There was kind of that image, if you will, of like Jack the Ripper.
Sanitized Jack the Ripper 00:03:16
dan friesen
Yeah.
I just had a fun thought, but we have to talk about it off the air.
unidentified
Oh, jeez.
dan friesen
I'm sorry.
I was distracted.
That got dark.
No, it's a good thought.
marty derosa
Okay.
dan friesen
It's a fun idea.
marty derosa
Dan, we can't have an island where we murder people.
dan friesen
Ah, damn it.
All right.
Never mind.
I'm going back to the subject.
unidentified
So.
dan friesen
Jack the Ripper was a real thing, though.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
My man.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
He was around in 1888.
unidentified
Hell yeah.
dan friesen
In the East End of London.
marty derosa
Living in the 80s.
dan friesen
It was a trash heap of a place.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
This place was a dump.
marty derosa
Throw out your dead.
dan friesen
There were just poor people everywhere.
And it happened in an area of London called Whitechapel.
And as early as the 1500s, Whitechapel was referred to as, quote, the other half of London.
It was sort of the place where there were bars, there were slaughterhouses.
It was the sort of place that was very not appealing to the rich and the educated.
marty derosa
I believe one of the wrestlers at the gathering, I said, Where are you from?
And he said, The other side of London.
dan friesen
Yeah, here we go.
Fucking dick.
marty derosa
Hailing from the other side of London.
dan friesen
It might be Jack.
marty derosa
It might be.
dan friesen
In the 1800s, Whitechapel had become basically the definition of what's come to be known as Dickensian London, where it was just poor people.
Everywhere.
Everything is overcrowded and it is a dump.
Everyone is so poor that prostitution took off huge.
marty derosa
Sure.
dan friesen
At the time.
marty derosa
Because poor people gotta fuck.
dan friesen
They gotta fuck.
And it's a thing where even rich people will go to bad areas to fuck.
marty derosa
Yeah.
A little legacy.
dan friesen
Yeah.
There's destination fucking.
I mean, we still have sex tourism today.
It's just, it's usually people who wanna fuck children in the Philippines or whatever.
You know, this has gone off on a bad.
Gary Glitter.
We know Gary Glitter.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
We don't know Gary Glitter.
marty derosa
Who were those radio guys?
John and Jeff?
unidentified
I don't know.
marty derosa
They were these, like, middle of the night radio syndicated guys called John and Jeff.
unidentified
Uh huh.
marty derosa
And they were like, the third shift.
We're for you, the third shifters out there.
dan friesen
Hey, stand up, you weirdos.
marty derosa
And one of them was going over to Thailand for a little vacay.
dan friesen
So the sex tourism back then was booming.
They had at least 62 documented brothels just in Whitechapel.
unidentified
Jesus.
dan friesen
And 1,200 prostitutes.
marty derosa
That's, like, how they do now.
They do the, like, there's more, like,.
Marijuana dispensaries than Starbucks in Denver.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
It is that kind of shocking number.
unidentified
Whoa!
dan friesen
1,200 prostitutes in this small area of London.
And to give you some context, now population has changed.
It's not as overcrowded as it was back then now, but the current population of White Castle is 14,862.
So that would be 1 out of 15 people are prostitutes.
And if you consider like half the population is women, that's 1 out of 7 of the adult women.
They're, they do not even have to take out children.
marty derosa
Their number one comedian at the time, uh, I, I can't think of his name, but he had a funny bit where he would be like, you might be a prostitute.
And I was like, oh boy, here we go.
dan friesen
If you're living in White Castle.
unidentified
And you're a woman!
marty derosa
Yeah, I'm a prostitute.
White chat, you said White Castle a couple times.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
Yeah, I'm a prostitute.
dan friesen
You know why?
White Castle Population Stats 00:04:23
dan friesen
Hungry.
marty derosa
You know why?
unidentified
Chaboy?
Hungry.
marty derosa
You gotta crave?
dan friesen
Yeah, I gotta get a case.
marty derosa
Luckily, I got this case right here.
dan friesen
In that squalor.
marty derosa
Catch a case.
That should have been a White Castle.
unidentified
Definitely.
marty derosa
Don't catch that case.
Like, they should have hired, like, Master P or something and be like, nah, man, I ain't catching a case.
And they're like, what about this?
And he'd be like, nah, that's a case I can catch.
dan friesen
Get Johnny Cochran to do it.
That guy's a dick.
Was.
Sorry.
marty derosa
Oh, man.
I had such, not to go off on a tangent, but, uh, I thought about you.
And, uh, my friend that I was with when we saw the Book of Mormon recently, uh, not to spoil anything, but Johnny Cochran makes a bit of a cameo.
unidentified
Nice.
marty derosa
And boy, did my eyes light up.
She goes, boy, you lit up like a Christmas tree when you saw Johnny Cochran.
dan friesen
Well, Trey Parker and Matt Stone have a documented aversion to Johnny Cochran.
So that's.
marty derosa
They have a famous history of not liking Johnny Cochran.
dan friesen
Um, so between 1888 and 1891, there were at least 11 brutal murders.
Brutal.
Ridiculous murders in Whitechapel.
marty derosa
Not quite Black Dahlia style murders.
dan friesen
Some of them.
unidentified
But.
dan friesen
Were worse, I think.
unidentified
Really?
Ooh, okay, okay.
dan friesen
Uh, there was the, uh, I can't remember the name of the street, but there's one murder that was just the Dorset Street torso.
unidentified
Or, uh.
marty derosa
Oh, Jesus.
dan friesen
Because they just found a torso on the street.
marty derosa
Oh, I take back what I said earlier then.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Sorry, the CBS doc, the CBS miniseries didn't have it that graphic.
dan friesen
Well, that one is not considered to be a Jack the Ripper murder.
There were 11 in that three year stretch, grizzly murders, but six of them are probably unrelated.
So people who call themselves ripperologists now, like people who study it, I believe that there are five canonical murders that can be ascribed to Jack the Ripper.
Which still is a lot, considering they all happened within two months of each other.
marty derosa
Yeah, we're still, uh, are we at serial killer?
dan friesen
Five is definitely good enough.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
I feel like you have to have more than three.
unidentified
And they have to be.
marty derosa
In a certain amount of time.
dan friesen
I think even if you have two, I'll call you a serial killer if it's not two at the same time.
marty derosa
Can you look up the sort of working definition of a serial killer?
dan friesen
Yeah, sure.
marty derosa
I thought I had.
dan friesen
If you vamp a little, I can.
marty derosa
Okay, so going back to that whole idea of the murders and this and that, it was interesting and I wish I could go back and why.
I gotta try and find the miniseries or whatever.
Um, but I definitely remember, like, they did a pretty good job of letting us know these were pretty horrendous murders.
dan friesen
A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people, usually in service of abnormal psychological gratification, with the murders taking place over more than a month and including a significant break or cooling off period between them.
marty derosa
Okay.
Because otherwise, you're a spree killer.
dan friesen
Right, right.
You wouldn't call the Beltway Sniper.
marty derosa
I was just going to say those guys.
dan friesen
Yeah, that was like.
unidentified
Malvo?
No.
dan friesen
Yeah, that's right.
marty derosa
Malvo and Harris?
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
I don't remember the second guy, but Malvo was one of them.
That was the main guy.
In terms of Jack the Ripper, he's in the middle in terms of most murderers.
Number one, most prolific serial killer of all time is a Colombian gentleman named Luis Garavito.
marty derosa
Oh, yeah.
What was his nickname?
unidentified
I don't know.
dan friesen
La Batista.
La Bestia.
La Bestia?
I don't know.
unidentified
La Bestia.
dan friesen
Yeah.
He has proven victims, 138, possible victims over 300.
marty derosa
He's like a mean looking old guy, right?
unidentified
I don't know.
dan friesen
I don't want to look at him.
marty derosa
He's a bad dude.
dan friesen
The top three here on this.
marty derosa
See, it's the thing with serial killers.
The guys who really are the most prolific ones don't get a lot of the headlines.
dan friesen
The top three are all Colombian people, and they're all.
People who murdered children.
So there's a correlation there.
If you kill children, apparently you can do a lot more of it.
unidentified
The chupacabra.
dan friesen
The number one most prolific American serial killer is Gary Ridgeway.
It's the Green River Killer.
marty derosa
The Green River Killer.
dan friesen
Killed 49.
marty derosa
Jesus Christ.
dan friesen
That's insane.
I mean, one is insane.
49 is, that's a lot of people.
marty derosa
Nine is insane.
unidentified
49.
dan friesen
I'm going to stand by my claim that one is crazy.
marty derosa
I feel like those cops are like, there's probably a 50th, but they're like, we can't let it be 50.
Like, guys, we got to stop this guy.
unidentified
Yeah.
The Green River Killer 00:15:15
dan friesen
Ah, shit.
Someone just asked if it's too late to call in.
unidentified
It is.
dan friesen
Sorry, King David Lane.
He tweeted at me just now.
Can't take a call on past episodes.
marty derosa
Sorry, we don't have that technology.
dan friesen
No time travel, but that will be an episode eventually.
So, yeah, there are five murders that are ascribed to him.
marty derosa
Okay.
dan friesen
And I don't know.
I don't know how you want to approach this.
marty derosa
Talk about that first murder.
Take me to the first murder scene.
dan friesen
First murder was a lady named Mary Ann Nichols.
marty derosa
Was she a lady of the night?
dan friesen
She was.
She was 43 years old.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
She was a big old drunk.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
Give you a little bit of backstory on that.
marty derosa
So far, I love everything about her.
dan friesen
43, though?
That's out of your wheelhouse.
unidentified
Nah.
Come on.
dan friesen
Drop that shit 20 years.
No, it's a real thing.
marty derosa
She's got that accent.
That counts for something.
dan friesen
She was a drunk.
She got married in 1864, but had affairs, theoretically, with both genders.
Mmm.
marty derosa
This lady's getting cooler and cooler.
dan friesen
She got divorced.
She started hooking in about 1882.
And her ex husband got really mad about it and cut her off from whatever spousal support he was supposed to give, and so she's just fucking hooking around.
Doing a ton of hooking.
marty derosa
Yeah.
dan friesen
On the night of August 31st, 1888, she is seen leaving a pub at 12:30 in the morning.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
She then, at 1:30, is turned away from an inn, boarding house, because she doesn't have enough money, so she leaves to go hook to get some money.
marty derosa
Sure.
dan friesen
At 3 30 in the morning, she's last seen alive standing on a corner, and witnesses said she was pretty drunk.
At 3 40 in the morning, Charles Lechmere, also has given his name as Charles Cross, finds her body and is soon after joined by a gentleman named Robert Paul.
They leave to go get a cop and tell the cop, hey, you gotta go, there's a body over there.
Cop finds the body.
She's found to have had her throat slit, and there were several incisions on her abdomen.
There was not a ton of blood splatter around, which led police to believe that she was strangled and then stabbed, and her throat was slit after she was dead, because otherwise the carotid artery would have shot tons of blood out.
So, now the thing that's super interesting about this case.
marty derosa
It's wild they knew that back then.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Or maybe not that wild.
dan friesen
Maybe they didn't.
Maybe we only know that in hindsight.
I don't know.
I don't know what sort of policing they were doing back then, but it is unaffective.
unidentified
Okay.
So.
dan friesen
This leads us to our first suspect, and someone who's a pretty decent suspect throughout.
This guy, Charles Lechmere.
unidentified
Lechmere.
dan friesen
Or however you pronounce that name.
He, whenever they went to go get a policeman, he said a number of things that are dubious.
One of the things he said was he didn't know if she was drunk or dead.
Whereas before, when he was talking to Robert Paul on the street, he was arguing that she was dead.
No, he was arguing that she was drunk.
Paul was like, she's dead.
He's like, ah, she's probably just drunk.
marty derosa
Oh, like, let's leave her alone.
Let's not worry about that.
She's just a drunk person.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So they go and get a cop, and what he tells the policeman is a cop, another cop has requested your assistance over there.
So he lied that there was already a cop with the body.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
Which I don't know what that proves or I don't know what that says, but it is someone directly lying to a cop.
marty derosa
And as we've talked about before and what I've seen in documentaries and things like that, and one thing that I know police look for, a lot of times, these killers have been known to visit the scenes of the crime.
dan friesen
Sure.
marty derosa
Especially when they're investigating or when they're quarantining the area.
dan friesen
There's such a compulsion to go look at your work.
marty derosa
Yeah, it really is like, ooh, look what I did here and kind of like check it out.
unidentified
Okay, okay.
dan friesen
On a, I mean, I don't want to say that that's, But I think that there is a normal human impulse to want to witness things you shouldn't witness.
Like, everybody wants to see their own funeral.
marty derosa
Sure.
dan friesen
You want to be able to see what people say about you after you're dead.
marty derosa
Sure.
dan friesen
There is, I think, a little element of that in this.
Like, I want to.
This is really dangerous for me to be here, but I got to see.
marty derosa
It's reading iTunes comments.
dan friesen
I've got to see what effect I've had on people.
marty derosa
Reading iTunes comments.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
I don't want to.
Maybe I don't want to see this, but I got to see it.
dan friesen
It's so fucking dangerous.
I got to see it.
So, The working theory is that it would have taken about three to five minutes to commit this murder based on the wounds and all this.
It doesn't match up necessarily with the level of evisceration of bodies, the other people that we're going to talk about, but that makes sense because this Robert Paul guy showed up.
So people kind of are like, well, this matches up enough that it's pretty easy to think he got interrupted.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
dan friesen
So had Robert Paul not shown up, There's a decent chance she would have been sliced down the middle.
marty derosa
Yeah, and also, some might say this was number one.
dan friesen
It's true.
marty derosa
So he had to heighten it as he.
dan friesen
There is that thing that you hear about a lot the evolution of a pattern in serial killers.
They start, and then it gets more fine tuned what they do.
And that's certainly a possibility, too.
marty derosa
More fine tuned, but also sometimes the stakes are raised.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So we'll get more into Charles Lachmere as we go along, but.
That's, that's interesting that he was the first on the scene here at this first murder.
marty derosa
That definitely should cause some sort of like, and this is why when there are crimes and stuff like that, sometimes the people who are like, Hey, I was just here.
It's like, let's get your info.
dan friesen
Yeah, let's get all of your info.
marty derosa
Let's see what you're into.
That'll happen every once in a while, like the first 48 when someone's like, Yeah, I saw him go down that street.
And they're like, What are you doing here?
Yeah, like what?
unidentified
I did it.
dan friesen
Sorry.
marty derosa
Oh shit, I did it.
unidentified
You're right.
dan friesen
I'm caught.
Uh, so flash forward a week.
To September 8th, 1888.
A lot of eights in there.
A lot of significant numbers.
I don't know if that's the case.
Annie Chapman, age 47, is found dead at 6 a.m.
Her body is discovered.
She's a lady who had three kids.
Her youngest was born disabled.
Her daughter, her oldest daughter, died of meningitis at the age of 12.
And due to these tragedies, her and her husband became big old drunks and ended up getting divorced in 1884.
Her husband gave her an allowance, much like is sort of consistent throughout these, until 1886 when he died of drinking.
He died of a booze related death.
Everyone who knew Annie Chapman said that she was a very industrious and a gifted crochetist and sewer, except when she would drink and she was drunk a lot.
So when she was drunk, she would end up being like, I don't want to crochet, I'm going to be a prostitute.
She'd fuck around.
So at 1 45 in the morning, she also was turned away from a boarding house because she didn't have enough money.
At 5 30 in the morning, she is seen talking to a man in an overcoat with dark hair and was described as a shabby-genteel appearance.
6 a.m. Her body is discovered.
Her throat has been slit left to right, which would say left-handed possibility.
marty derosa
Left-handed, possibly.
dan friesen
Yeah, probably.
I mean, a lot of people believe that whoever Jack the Ripper was, was probably left handed.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
Because he's sinister.
Yep.
marty derosa
Take that, left handed people out there.
dan friesen
She was sliced down the middle.
unidentified
Ugh.
dan friesen
Her intestines were taken out and thrown over each shoulder.
marty derosa
Oh, my gosh.
Like a scarf, like you'd whip a scarf over each shoulder.
unidentified
Exactly.
dan friesen
Part of her uterus was missing.
But historians do not know if that was something he did or if whenever they took her to the morgue.
Someone there took her uterus to sell.
unidentified
Oh, Jesus.
dan friesen
Because of how bad record keeping was back then, and they didn't do a thorough examination on the scene, and it's possible someone stole her uterus later.
Although it does kind of fit with the pattern of his behavior, so it's reasonable to assume he took her uterus.
marty derosa
Now we're getting into, which is another serial killer characteristic, taking trophies.
dan friesen
Yeah, but it's usually like a pin or something like that.
marty derosa
I know, not an ID, a driver's license, not a bodybuilder.
But.
If there's somebody who's fascinated with science, maybe biology, the body.
dan friesen
Now we get to where I just don't want to go into all the details of people's past lives because it's all so similar.
Drunks, 40 year olds, basically.
marty derosa
This guy definitely has a type.
dan friesen
Drunk, old 40 year old prostitutes.
So on the night of September 30th, 1888, he strikes twice within a little distance of each other.
Definitely able to be.
Crossed.
There's no reason to think he wouldn't be able to pull it off.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Elizabeth Stride, aged 44, and Catherine Eddows, aged 46.
Both are murdered and found in the street.
Elizabeth Stride is found at about 1 o'clock, and Catherine Eddows at about 1 45.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
So they were both also cut up a bit, throat slit.
Catherine Eddows had much more evisceration done to her, which would match up because she was the second one.
Mm hmm.
So, there's also some belief that maybe he was startled when he had killed Elizabeth Stride, and that the second murder was because he didn't get to live out the reason for the killing.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So he had to go do it over or something like that.
marty derosa
That one didn't count.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
It didn't take.
dan friesen
And then his fifth documented or canonical murder is a massive departure.
Mary Jane Kelly, age 25, younger, way younger, also still a prostitute, drunk, and a drunk.
Is murdered in her home.
Which is weird because all the other people were killed in the street.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
She has a next level amount of evisceration done to her.
She's cut open entirely.
Her breasts are cut off.
Her legs and arms are partially detached.
He took organs and put them under her head and just moved body parts around.
He had a crazy bloody scene.
unidentified
He had.
marty derosa
More time and privacy.
unidentified
Yep.
Yeah.
dan friesen
And also, this was the case to a certain extent with the other murders, but in this way crazy.
Just pummeling of the face.
Like just cutting up the face to an unrecognizable.
marty derosa
Doesn't that usually say that there's some personal.
dan friesen
It somewhat implies that, or at least like a feeling of like this body is judging me.
That's sort of what I think.
It's like a don't look at me.
marty derosa
As you were describing.
The Bimes thing.
Imagine you're the one who finds that body.
dan friesen
You know who did find her?
Her roommate.
unidentified
Oh, man.
dan friesen
Yeah.
The lady who lived downstairs the next morning was knocking on the door and she didn't answer.
And then earlier in the night, someone yelled murder, and her roommate didn't wake up because it's such a horrible place that that doesn't even surprise you.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
It's like when we have friends who live in parts of town where it's just like, I heard a gunshot.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
It doesn't even startle you.
marty derosa
It's like, people yell murder all the time here in Chicago.
dan friesen
That's true, because there's murders all the time.
marty derosa
Because there's murders all the time here in Chicago.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So those are the five that we can say the Ripper is responsible for.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
All within about a month to two months of each other.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
They all seem to happen around the same area and towards weekends or holidays, which has led pretty much everyone who studies it to believe that it was someone who lived locally and had a job.
marty derosa
Remember the working class?
dan friesen
Yeah.
Or someone who wanted you to think that.
marty derosa
That's what they want you to think.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So, I mean, almost every piece of evidence is a good deduction or someone wanting you to go down that path.
It's almost impossible to tell.
marty derosa
Now, whenever there's a serial killer or a spree killer or whatever, there's always this idea of copycat killers.
dan friesen
Yes, and that I think is something you could ascribe a lot of the other six to.
I think there's a decent chance that, and even some people who have studied it have insinuated that at least one of these is not an actual murder of his.
You know what I mean?
There's people who think that Elizabeth Stride is one that some people who have studied it have been like, I'm not sure that was him.
Yeah.
marty derosa
Which I'm sure even, it's gotta be weird too if you're like a serial killer and you're like, guys, I did all of those, but that one, that wasn't me.
That was not me.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
It's like, I'm a bad guy, but I'm, I'm the worst and I take credit, I take responsibility or credit, however you want to put it.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
For all these, but that one, I swear to God, that wasn't me.
dan friesen
Yeah.
You almost have to believe it if a killer says that.
marty derosa
Right, right, right.
dan friesen
Um, so at the time, a lot of people were sending letters and that's how, uh, you know, The town, I mean, that place was in panic.
marty derosa
Tough time to be a prostitute there.
dan friesen
Sure, but people seem to not be dissuaded at all.
marty derosa
They should have gotten, and this is why I'm so proud that women are now on police forces and in the military.
I'm with Hill.
Here's what we would have done back then Put some undercovers out there.
dan friesen
Sure.
marty derosa
I've seen enough cops where they've put some officers out on the street.
unidentified
Uh huh.
Yep.
Yep.
marty derosa
When I put my hand on my head, that means come on in.
And then all these buggies with lights come with cherries and berries on a buggy come rolling in.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Um, There was tons of people taking responsibility.
marty derosa
That's another weird thing, too.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
Of, and we, we talk about this before.
We always bring up the fucking John Bonet guy and stuff like that.
But I mean, like, there are people.
dan friesen
But, this is different than the John Bonet thing because that guy had something to gain.
marty derosa
That guy had something to gain.
dan friesen
These are people anonymously taking credit.
marty derosa
But I think there are, there's always people who, and this is why police sometimes don't release all the info because sometimes that traps people.
But if, if I say like, you know, you come to interview me and I'm like, well, it's a, that's a bummer that Dan died.
It's too bad that, uh, You know, like, oh, what are you going to do with his one eyed cat?
And you're like, how do you know he has a one eyed cat?
And you're like, oh, fuck.
unidentified
Oh, shit.
marty derosa
I don't know.
But there's also the people who are like, oh, you did these murders?
And they're like, yep.
Like, oh, really?
So how did you do them?
They're like, I shot them.
And they're like, you didn't fucking do it.
dan friesen
No, wasn't you.
marty derosa
Wasn't you.
unidentified
Dick.
Yeah.
dan friesen
However, one letter that the Whitechapel, what's his official title?
Vigilance Committee.
George Lusk, the head of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, received a letter.
That's referred to as the From Hell letter.
And it's signed From Hell on the top.
One-Eyed Cat Red Flags 00:15:49
dan friesen
I don't know.
There's a lot of misspellings and weird stuff.
I fried and ate it.
It was nice.
I may send you the bloody knife that took it out if you wait a while longer.
Signed, catch me when you can, Mr. Lusk.
So that's the only letter that people who are looking at the history believe is kind of Probably real.
marty derosa
Oh, can I ask you this?
Where did the name Jack the Ripper come from?
dan friesen
It came from the media.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
People writing in magazines and stuff like that.
They started with a leather coat or something like that.
No, that's not it.
unidentified
Fuck.
dan friesen
I don't remember.
marty derosa
Old leather coats.
Add it again.
Story at 10.
dan friesen
Leather, not leather vest.
unidentified
Chap.
dan friesen
No.
marty derosa
Concho.
dan friesen
There's a.
Near one of the murders, they found a leather.
marty derosa
Shaw cape.
dan friesen
Leather apron?
marty derosa
Leather daddy?
unidentified
Yes.
dan friesen
That had just been washed.
unidentified
Oh.
dan friesen
And so they sort of ran with it in the media a little bit that, you know, like, hey, this is a, you know, leather apron is the guy we need to catch.
unidentified
Mm hmm.
dan friesen
But it turned out that it was just someone's mom had washed their leather apron and it was coincidental.
marty derosa
A leather apron, not unlike the one Bray Wyatt used to wear.
unidentified
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
dan friesen
That is definitely a nod.
So they called him Leather Apron and then it sort of evolved to calling him Jack the Ripper.
And that's why a lot of these letters that, They got sent, he signed it Jack the Ripper, and people were like, he wouldn't call himself a name that the.
marty derosa
Sure.
dan friesen
So a lot of that takes away credence from it.
Also, I love Saucy Jack.
I love that as a nickname.
marty derosa
Silly Jack.
dan friesen
Saucy Jackie.
marty derosa
Naughty Jack.
dan friesen
Yeah, so I like that nickname.
But yeah, so that was the one correspondence that did actually have half a kidney sent with it, which is fucked up.
marty derosa
Well, I mean, that's a little more evidence than just, hey, I did this.
dan friesen
But they didn't have DNA evidence back then, so we don't know if it was actually.
Her kidney, or anything like that, or it could be a ploy.
So, I mean, that again is unconclusive, but it's super fucked up.
marty derosa
Sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
Sure.
marty derosa
I am kind of just.
unidentified
Fuck.
marty derosa
It's fascinating, too, that there's that idea or part of this killer who wants to be in touch with the authorities or the media in some other cases where it's just like.
Once everyone wants to be caught, it all makes sense and it all adds up.
Like the BTK, he was caught by.
writing the newspaper and police again and being like, y'all forgot about me, you know?
So to me, and it's, it's the profile and it's the profile that was back in the 1800s and it's the same profile today that there's something in the DNA of these serial killers where they want to do this thing, they want recognition for it, they want to interact and they want to interact, yeah.
dan friesen
It's one part ego and I think that maybe this is from movies, maybe it's from Silence of the Lambs or something like that, but like this idea of wanting someone that they feel is on their level to hunt them.
unidentified
Right.
marty derosa
Like, you, Dan, you caught me.
You are a worthy adversary.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
I am now ready to go to jail.
dan friesen
I think that's a romantic notion of killers, though.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
I don't think they actually think like that.
marty derosa
Well, yeah, I'm sure it is a romantic Hollywood sort of version of.
dan friesen
Like a chess game of murder.
marty derosa
But also, those might.
Those Hollywood tropes might sort of teach the serial killers or the killers of tomorrow, oh, I do need a.
You know, like, I'm the Joker.
I need my Batman or, you know.
dan friesen
Yeah, how much of that is like.
marty derosa
A learned thing.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So, there's a lot of theories about who he is, but no one knows definitively who he is.
My favorite, I think, in terms of actual folks, is that Charles Cross, Charles Lashmere guy.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Because most of the murders fall on his route to work.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
He was a butcher.
unidentified
Yes.
dan friesen
So it wouldn't be uncommon for him to go to work and have blood on him.
marty derosa
Is he Polish?
Was he the Polish guy?
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
Here's some of the things I've heard.
dan friesen
That guy was like a.
No, but he was very cleared.
marty derosa
I've heard.
Okay, that's the guy who was just visiting or something.
And they're like, well, they all stopped when he was gone.
So some of the things you hear, and this again goes back to Black Dahlia, where it's like they had to have some form of training, some background in knife work.
Either they were a butcher, a doctor.
Yeah.
You know, veterinary, like something.
First of all, they had access to these weapons.
dan friesen
But they just had a knife.
Most of it was done by the same knife.
marty derosa
But were they just some knife or was that like surgical knives?
dan friesen
I don't think it was a surgical knife, but it was probably a nice knife.
unidentified
I think.
marty derosa
And now we're getting, can we get into some real sexy theories?
dan friesen
Yeah, but before you do, that thing about the butcher or doctor thing.
marty derosa
Yeah.
dan friesen
From the time period, the sources say that, like, Half of the people that looked at the bodies and analyzed stuff are like, this has got to be a guy who has some meat handling experience.
And then the other half are like, this is so clunky.
This guy has no knowledge of what he's doing.
marty derosa
Look at Jeffrey Dahmer.
He didn't have a background in any of that shit without a fucking chocolate factory.
dan friesen
I don't know how you, if you don't have any experience, I don't know how you take out a uterus.
marty derosa
That's what I'm saying.
dan friesen
That's pretty weird.
And that's not luck.
I wouldn't even know where to look.
marty derosa
If I gave you.
unidentified
Uh huh.
dan friesen
The uterus is in the titty, right?
marty derosa
Dan.
I mean, I get the cutting the boob off thing.
I get the, I get.
dan friesen
I get that.
marty derosa
I mean, for just like a maniac, like, I'm going to cut boobs off sexual, like that.
But when you start getting into things like the Black Dolly thing, how they drain the body and stuff like that, we're getting into some pretty expert level shit.
unidentified
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
marty derosa
Now, a thing like this, especially given over 100 years to let stories build and myths build and folklore build, one of the theories, and I believe going back to that miniseries that started all for me, They were hinting around that it was someone in the royal family?
dan friesen
Yes, that would be Prince Albert Victor.
unidentified
Yes.
dan friesen
The second in line to the throne.
He was the grandson of Queen Victoria.
And that theory, as that goes, is that he had knocked up Mary Jane Kelly, the last victim.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
And this is sort of like this has invaded pop culture.
And I believe it had some, that movie from Hell and Alan Moore's graphic novel has some overlap with this.
But the idea was essentially that he had knocked up this lady and she was a peasant gal and a prostitute, and you can't have that.
Nope.
Which would explain why the last killing does seem more personal.
It doesn't fit in the terms of the killing hookers in the street.
marty derosa
Access to her house.
dan friesen
Sure.
There's all kinds of levels of that.
marty derosa
And then the other ones were to throw people off.
unidentified
Yes.
marty derosa
That there was just a maniac on the loose, and she just happened to be just another victim.
Although, if that's the case, you'd think she'd kind of be in the middle, maybe.
But if you finally do kill who you need to kill.
Why risk killing more?
dan friesen
It would be distasteful work to kill more.
marty derosa
Yeah, and it's kind of like, hey, guys, I'm so sorry.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Also, he has an alibi for some of the murders, but then people are like, well, you can just have someone do it for him.
marty derosa
Which was another thing, I believe, that I've heard before that there were multiple people doing this.
There was a duo.
dan friesen
There's duo ideas, and then there's also ideas of ritualistic secret society murders and so on.
marty derosa
Oh, now we're getting into it.
dan friesen
But all that stuff, too, is just such as we go on this podcast.
unidentified
Yes.
marty derosa
And we will go on.
dan friesen
Yeah.
I'm Getting more and more of a distaste for things that, like, are unprovable entirely.
marty derosa
Like, you want a little closure?
dan friesen
Not that I want closure, but like theories that are so open ended that, like, they're not provable and they're not disprovable.
So who knows?
marty derosa
What I don't get, and I think, like, as JFK is a prime example, what I don't get is how we don't get more, like, deathbed confessions.
dan friesen
We've had a bunch with JFK.
marty derosa
But no one believes him because there's so many.
dan friesen
That's true.
marty derosa
And so many different ones.
dan friesen
Yeah.
But that doesn't, that speaks to your wanting them.
They're there.
marty derosa
To me, it's crazy with Jack the Ripper that it just.
This mystery just is dead with people who've.
dan friesen
Well, it's entirely possible.
marty derosa
They've taken it to their graves.
dan friesen
Some of the bad suspects that they have are people who died, and that's why the killing stopped.
There was one guy, a younger gentleman, who killed himself right after, and then the killing stopped.
He drowned himself in the Thames River.
Had almost no connection to any of the murders, but people just deserve a suspect because, like, hey, Wiggy died, and then it stopped.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
Which is kind of like.
Witch logic.
You know, like, well, we killed the witch and then the rain stopped, so she was doing it.
unidentified
I know.
dan friesen
So that doesn't, it's not all that appealing.
marty derosa
You can hear us crack open the Salem witch trials in a previous episode.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
Cracked them open.
This is going to be unsatisfying because we can't crack this open, I don't think.
But I think there's tons of theories about, like, Lewis Carroll, the guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
They believe he did it.
marty derosa
See, that's, to me, like, a classic good old fashioned, like, you know, who did the Black Dahlia murders?
unidentified
Mm hmm.
marty derosa
Gilligan from Gilligan's Island.
dan friesen
Bob Denver.
marty derosa
These unknown, yeah, these unsolved mysteries.
And then it's like, what if?
Like, those are just.
dan friesen
If you watch the show Doby Gillis, it was really all about the Black Dahlia murders.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
And, and, I mean, you know, it's, it's what draws us in to these murders and, and, and to that idea that, like, somebody who's such a nice person is probably responsible for something so evil.
dan friesen
He's beloved, but beneath the surface.
marty derosa
That idea that a member of the royal family, that's a sexy one.
dan friesen
Sure.
Cause there's all kinds of, like, You're living in squalor.
This whole area where people are shit on.
There's obviously going to be some sort of ill will towards the rich.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
There's always been social schism.
marty derosa
Ill Will was a rapper's name at the gathering who did the freestyle battle.
dan friesen
That was Ill Bill.
marty derosa
Ill Bill.
dan friesen
That's an actual rapper.
marty derosa
Ill Bill?
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Oh, this one's Ill Will.
We had an Ill Will there for real.
dan friesen
Oh, it's cool.
marty derosa
Ill Bill's a great name.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
He should always have that yellow jumpsuit on that she wore in Kill Bill.
dan friesen
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The widow.
unidentified
Yes.
Right?
dan friesen
The bride?
marty derosa
Black Mamba.
dan friesen
The bride?
What'd they call him?
marty derosa
The bride.
dan friesen
Bride, yeah, yeah.
My bad.
marty derosa
And Black Mamba.
dan friesen
So, also, Aleister Crowley, people have suggested as a.
unidentified
Oh.
marty derosa
Shout out to our boy.
dan friesen
The evidence of it really just gets down to, like, he is a weirdo.
unidentified
Awesome.
dan friesen
And he was around London.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And he has some interest in the case.
He'd expressed interest in the goings on around Whitechapel at the time.
But that does not prove he did it.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
Very weak sauce in terms of.
marty derosa
Yeah, and I just, I think that.
A lot of it is just like anything that, like, those murders that happen and then just go away.
It is fascinating.
And it is just like, why'd you go away?
I mean, like, with BTK, he went away because he started getting older.
And he was just like, then he had to start attacking older women.
And he was like, it wasn't as fun.
unidentified
Yeah.
It's not my thing.
marty derosa
And that, to me, is wild that, like, you kind of outgrow being a serial killer.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I mean, there's all kinds of things.
marty derosa
I don't do that anymore.
dan friesen
Cliff diving, that's a young man's game.
unidentified
Sounds like shit.
dan friesen
Yeah, that is super weird.
I think that the best explanation is that either there's a reason it stopped or it stopped because the person had to.
They were incarcerated for something else or died.
marty derosa
Look, Dan, we here, that's what they want you to think.
We subscribe to Occam's Razor.
unidentified
Yes.
marty derosa
Which is?
dan friesen
What a simplest explanation is usually right.
unidentified
Right.
marty derosa
So in this instance.
dan friesen
It's got to be Lewis Carroll.
marty derosa
It's got to be Lewis Carroll.
unidentified
No matter what.
dan friesen
You know the argument why people think it was him?
marty derosa
Yeah, why do people think it's him?
dan friesen
Because they took passages from, like, through the looking glass and used anagrams to, like, mix up the letters.
And you can readjust the letters to have a story about Jack the Ripper, which is crazy.
marty derosa
Number one, when has that ever been the case where it's like, you got me?
If you mix up the words in the giving tree, you can see that I'm a murderer.
dan friesen
If you adjust all the words in this podcast and just move them around, you can prove that we are the Green River Killer.
marty derosa
Come on.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I mean, that's so bizarre, but it shows the amount of fascination people have with this.
Grasp at straws that hard.
marty derosa
And now we're getting into this whole thing.
This reminds me of like, I mean, God, I remember years ago when it was kind of like, hey, why are they doing that in that music video covering their left eye?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
marty derosa
They're doing that.
And now it's just like, oh, people do it as a goof.
Yeah, they're doing it because people kept talking about putting in Illuminati sort of signals or, or, or, you know, paraphernalia or whatever you want to call it in their music videos.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Because like, it's the cool thing to do.
dan friesen
The symbology has its own life outside of the Illuminati now.
marty derosa
Back when Madonna.
Britney Spears and Christine Aguilera had that ceremony on stage.
That was authentic.
That was real.
dan friesen
It's back when pop culture was pure.
marty derosa
Now you get this fucking Lady Gaga up there going, Oh, what would the Illuminati do?
That's her motto.
dan friesen
Yeah, I'm going to cover myself in meat.
marty derosa
What would the Illuminati do?
You know what I mean?
It's just like, come on.
dan friesen
That's actually my bracelet that I have.
marty derosa
What would the Illuminati do?
I'm talking about a time back when rituals meant something, Dan.
dan friesen
Back in the Jack the Ripper days, man.
marty derosa
That's when Madonna picked Britney.
Remember that?
unidentified
Yep.
That's a fun thing.
dan friesen
It was a christening.
marty derosa
She christened her, not Christina.
dan friesen
It was a kissing.
marty derosa
You could see Christina be upset.
dan friesen
She's pissed.
marty derosa
I know.
dan friesen
So, what do you think?
marty derosa
I think it was a dude.
dan friesen
Okay, strong.
marty derosa
I think it was a man.
dan friesen
Well, I mean, a lot of people have suggested that it was Jill the Ripper.
unidentified
Yeah, that it was a woman.
dan friesen
A lot of people have suggested that it was a woman.
marty derosa
Hey, feminist, back off.
Let us have this one.
dan friesen
It wasn't a feminist.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle actually suggested it was a woman.
marty derosa
Why?
Killing the comp?
Well, competition?
Oh, what about this?
It's a pimp.
unidentified
Uh huh.
marty derosa
And he wants to scare other lady prostitutes.
dan friesen
So it's a message.
marty derosa
It's a message.
And it's getting some of the competition off the street at the same time.
unidentified
That's.
marty derosa
Follow the money.
What do we also say in this podcast?
dan friesen
BB Bono.
marty derosa
What do we also say in this podcast?
dan friesen
BB Bono.
marty derosa
Follow the money.
dan friesen
Money trails.
Money talks, bullshit walks.
marty derosa
How much of a bummer is it if you, back then, are just a guy who wants a prostitute?
unidentified
Uh huh.
marty derosa
You have to.
unidentified
Hey, hey.
marty derosa
Ma'am, sorry.
Don't even bother you.
dan friesen
Look, I'm not a murderer.
marty derosa
I'm not a murderer.
dan friesen
That's a red flag, by the way.
marty derosa
I, yeah, I know.
Oh, look, and I'm sorry, and I feel like a creep that I have to say I'm not a murderer.
I know that's not the best opening line ever.
dan friesen
It's a faux pas in these prostitution circles.
marty derosa
Uh, I have some money.
I would like to just have sex with you.
I promise I will not murder you.
There I go again, sounding like a fucking creep.
I am so socially awkward.
This is weird.
dan friesen
I feel like it's bananas that people didn't stop hooking for that month.
Like, it's crazy that people- I almost got a habit.
That people weren't just like, uh, listen, we gotta- and like, Or, if people are being murdered on the street, I understand that commerce and money runs the world.
But if you're an innkeeper and people keep getting murdered because they get turned away from the inn.
marty derosa
Do you think those innkeepers felt a little guilt?
London Fog and Innkeepers 00:08:55
dan friesen
I would.
I don't know if they did, but I certainly would.
I'd be like, I could have stopped that.
marty derosa
Right.
Or maybe if we're hooking, maybe we buddy system this shit?
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
I don't know if that would have helped, but.
Probably would have.
Because it seems like whoever was Jack the Ripper liked to take a little time.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Probably wouldn't have attacked two women together.
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
And then there's this idea.
Well, yeah, so with the Royal, there was the.
What was the Royal?
Did they say anything about like a kind of like a little buggy, horse drawn carriage where they would sort of.
dan friesen
What are you talking about?
marty derosa
That was in the miniseries, I remember.
dan friesen
Oh, no, I don't remember this.
I didn't come upon this.
I didn't see the miniseries again.
unidentified
It's so crazy.
dan friesen
This is your childhood memory.
marty derosa
Fuck, I know.
dan friesen
It's crazy.
marty derosa
Maybe it didn't even happen, Berenstein Bearstyle.
dan friesen
Yeah, might not have.
marty derosa
Berenstein.
dan friesen
My feeling is I love the Royal one.
unidentified
Yeah, it's true.
dan friesen
But it's not true.
marty derosa
It's a hot one.
dan friesen
I love it, but it's not true.
unidentified
I know.
dan friesen
I love it as fiction because it would explain why it stopped.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
It would, like, it would, it explains a lot.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
dan friesen
Like, you're trying to hide one murder in five.
marty derosa
I get it.
It makes sense.
unidentified
Yes.
marty derosa
In a way.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
marty derosa
It's crazy, but it makes sense.
dan friesen
And if you were trying to do something like that, killing old prostitutes is something that seems like it would be the easiest way to go.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
As sad as- Because also, think about this.
Back in the 1800s?
Mm hmm.
40 something?
dan friesen
That's 60 today.
marty derosa
That's like 60 or 70 today.
dan friesen
And a hooker 40?
marty derosa
And a hooker who's been drinking and having a rough life?
unidentified
Whoa.
Oi, oi, oi.
dan friesen
And if you catch them drunk, that's like, uh, come on.
Slitting the throat of a fish in a barrel.
unidentified
Come on.
dan friesen
You know, that's, uh, so whoever it is is preying on like very easy targets.
And that does imply, um, someone who's not, you know, it's weird that the Jack the Ripper has, Like, lived on this enduring legacy when he was really a bottom feeder in terms of what he was actually doing.
unidentified
Right, but.
dan friesen
It's not a.
Like, I would love it if the serial killers that we put on a pedestal were ones who were doing the triple Lindy of murder.
They were going for hard targets.
marty derosa
Sure.
Not women.
dan friesen
Do you know who, like, who's ever committed regicide?
Who's ever killed a king?
I don't know any names of people who have killed kings.
It's happened.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Other than, like, I don't even know who shot Archduke Franz Ferdinand and started World War I.
I have no idea.
I know Franz Ferdinand, but that's just because of the band.
marty derosa
That's the band.
Take me out.
dan friesen
That's the only reason I know.
I don't know who shot him.
marty derosa
I got to say, I really thought they were going to be bigger.
dan friesen
Yeah, they really looked like it for a minute.
marty derosa
Wow, did they fall off.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
That whole era had, like, them, the hives, the vines, the vines, the strokes.
Well, the strokes kind of did succeed for a bit.
marty derosa
Sure, but, like.
dan friesen
The rest of them just, like, they're the next big thing, and then nothing.
unidentified
Yeah.
Jet.
Jet.
dan friesen
Wolf Mother.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
marty derosa
I mean, that was that era of like, sorry, I just dropped a cap that sounded like I dropped a motherfucking.
unidentified
That was weird.
marty derosa
That was weird.
dan friesen
That was.
Yeah, the time was like, we're back to rock, guys.
unidentified
Yep.
marty derosa
Boy bands are gone.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
We're fucking back to rock.
dan friesen
Did not work out.
marty derosa
And then they all just farted off.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
I think this the reason why Jack the Ripper is as popular as it is is because a catchy name.
dan friesen
Sure.
unidentified
And.
dan friesen
What if he was Leather Apron?
marty derosa
You wouldn't hear about him.
dan friesen
Never.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
The enduring legacy of leather apron.
marty derosa
You wouldn't hear about him.
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
Also, Jack.
dan friesen
But Saucy Jack?
That's pretty good.
marty derosa
That's pretty good.
But Jack the Ripper is fucking perfect.
It's like a wrestling name of being like perfect.
dan friesen
Yeah, now you got it.
Syllables are all in.
marty derosa
It's perfect.
Also, this idea of, like, Google, Google image, Jack the Ripper.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
It's usually a silhouette.
marty derosa
It's a silhouette and almost like that Sherlock Holmes-y kind of look.
dan friesen
The top hat and the cloak.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
I mean, it's sexy.
It's a sexy story.
dan friesen
The visual imagery of a guy in like a cloak coming down an alley with a knife and a top hat.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
marty derosa
And it's a, it's a, I mean, like, if I, if I'm listening, if I'm talking to people at home and I say, kind of close your eyes and what do you think of when you think of Jack the Ripper?
You think of a quiet street.
You think of the footsteps down the cobblestone streets, maybe a horse drawn, a black horse drawn carriage.
dan friesen
Yeah, but a lot of that isn't real.
Like, that's the image that we've created.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
Like, even the reports of people who saw these women with men right before they died described him as, like, sort of shabby.
marty derosa
But that's not important.
That's, like, in the Bible.
What does the Bible say Jesus looks like?
dan friesen
Nothing.
marty derosa
Doesn't say he's Middle Eastern?
dan friesen
Like, I'm not sure it gives a physical description of Jesus.
marty derosa
A pair of, like, Wool or something?
unidentified
I don't know.
dan friesen
I'm actually in the middle of a reread of the Bible, so I'll let you know when I get there.
marty derosa
Are you doing an audio?
unidentified
No.
No.
marty derosa
But what do we all want to pretend Jesus looks like?
dan friesen
Whitey.
marty derosa
A fucking hippie dude, long hair, beard.
dan friesen
What do we want to look at him like Russell Brand?
marty derosa
What do we want to think God looks like?
dan friesen
Old man, white hair, white beard.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
So it's like we.
unidentified
Like a.
dan friesen
God is Colonel Sanders who's let himself go.
That's the vision we have, sort of.
marty derosa
Or like your 19.
dan friesen
Or Santa.
marty derosa
Or, like, we'd like to think that, yeah, God is like, let's see.
I was going to say Triple H from 2005 with cerebral assassin?
White hair and beard.
I don't know.
dan friesen
You know what is weird I've never thought about?
Why do we imagine God has age?
You know, like, we think of him as an old man.
Why would he have an age?
Like, why would he.
Like, all those images of him as an old man with kids sitting on his lap and stuff.
marty derosa
Because.
dan friesen
Why would he choose to be 70?
marty derosa
Because.
The idea that God is a four year old or a baby or something like that.
dan friesen
God is ageless by definition.
marty derosa
We link wisdom with age.
dan friesen
That's stupid.
Real dumb, guys.
marty derosa
And he's our daddy.
Daddy!
We don't want to make daddy mad.
dan friesen
We shouldn't do that because that gets into Trump stuff.
marty derosa
I think Jack the Ripper owes it all to marketing.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
marty derosa
I think whoever was the image consultant, that brand, the top hat, the shadowy figure, the London fog.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
London fog.
No, that was a clothing company back in the day.
dan friesen
It's also a type of tea.
marty derosa
London Fog.
dan friesen
Oh, it is, yeah.
marty derosa
I had a lot of those jackets, I believe.
I bought them at Burlington Factory growing up as a kid.
London Fog was like, oh, London Fog.
dan friesen
You know what else I think is if he had ever gotten caught, all that marketing wouldn't have helped.
Like, all of it would, like, it's the allure of the marketing plus the mystery of we don't know.
marty derosa
And a faceless man.
dan friesen
Yeah.
That's what the shadow allows.
marty derosa
Because with this idea of if I were to sort of get a room full of strangers and I was like, What do you think he looks like?
I bet people are going to be like, might be like a handsome guy.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
Suave, maybe.
I don't know why I think he's suave and handsome and wearing a.
I imagine him being very much like putting on these leather gloves.
dan friesen
Yeah.
As a button down vest.
marty derosa
Maybe a pencil thin mustache.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Meanwhile, all the reports are a shabby dressed guy with a cloak and a beard.
unidentified
Sure.
I don't know.
dan friesen
I mean, if you look at my last note here.
If you read the last thing on this page, who knows?
Yeah, who knows?
marty derosa
You should have thrown three question marks after that.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
I know, and I do know what you're saying, especially as far as this podcast goes.
I do really hate to not be able to say, like, here's what happened.
dan friesen
Yeah.
I mean, like I said, the royal one is hot as shit, but it's not true.
But the Charles Latchmere one is very plausible.
He is a guy who really, you can't say he did it, but it could very well have been him.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Because all of the crimes, except for one, happened where he would have.
Been on his route to work.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
I mean, and he would have gone in early in the morning.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
He discovered the first body in a state that it looked like he was being caught.
The other one that wasn't on that work path was near his mother's house.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I mean, there's just a lot of circumstantial evidence that looks pretty good.
He lied to the cops whenever he was that night.
It was a situation where the guy was close enough to him when he was with the body that he couldn't have run away.
marty derosa
I think that makes sense.
What a great, like, oh shit, someone's.
Someone has hurt this person.
dan friesen
We found this body.
Work Route Murders 00:11:55
marty derosa
You hurt this person.
You know what I mean?
You did it.
dan friesen
So we don't have closure, but that's comfortable for me, like thinking that was him.
You can't say it definitely, but.
marty derosa
What a bummer that we don't know for sure what happened.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
What a fucking bummer.
dan friesen
Yeah.
I mean, that's one of those things.
I was talking to my brother a ways back, and we're talking about what superpowers we would have.
And his was the one he would want is to be able to know, like just go back in time to be able to know what happened during certain things.
marty derosa
But you can't do anything about it.
dan friesen
Not like change things, but just have the knowledge of like, Oh, shit.
That's what happened there.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So, I mean, that is a very appealing superpower.
I went with telepathy.
marty derosa
Can you tell what I'm thinking right now?
dan friesen
Lame superpower?
marty derosa
That's what they want you to think.
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
I mean, I do that.
unidentified
That is.
dan friesen
But, but, but.
marty derosa
That's an issue.
dan friesen
I want to be clear.
marty derosa
Yeah.
dan friesen
I only want telepathy if it also means I can put thoughts in other people's heads.
marty derosa
Ooh, damn.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
So, I would say.
dan friesen
But that's only because I want people to be happy.
marty derosa
I know.
unidentified
I'll just be happy.
marty derosa
Do you want to know what they think about you, though?
dan friesen
Calm down.
marty derosa
Of all time.
unidentified
Don't get hot.
Don't get hot.
dan friesen
That's what I would be shooting into people's heads.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Calm down.
unidentified
Calm down.
marty derosa
If I was a member of the Psychopathic Records roster, I would be Jack the Ripper.
unidentified
Rippa.
marty derosa
R I P A.
dan friesen
I guarantee that's already a rapper.
marty derosa
Google it.
It's got to be.
dan friesen
Also, wasn't Rip the Jacka?
Wasn't that a cannabis album?
Oh, man.
I think it was.
I really hope that's true.
marty derosa
Jack the Rippa.
dan friesen
Rip the Jacka.
marty derosa
That's great.
dan friesen
Jack the Rippa with an A?
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
Search only for Jack.
Go to RappersName, officially rappersname.com.
dan friesen
Is that a.
marty derosa
Kelly Rippa?
dan friesen
Oh, that's great.
marty derosa
Kelly the Rippa?
Oh, man.
dan friesen
We're really hitting a wall here, buddy.
marty derosa
If I was a female rapper.
unidentified
Uh huh.
marty derosa
If I was a white, blonde, young female rapper.
dan friesen
LL Cool J has a song called Jack the Ripper.
marty derosa
I would call myself Kelly the Rippa.
unidentified
Ooh.
marty derosa
That's hot.
That's Legs Diamond's girlfriend's name, Kelly the Rippa.
dan friesen
Rip the Jacker.
Okay, please be a cannabis album.
Oh, man, this is sad.
The first thing that comes up is RIP The Jacka.
The Jacka was a Bay Area rapper who apparently was murdered.
That sucks.
I'm sorry about that.
That's a bummer.
Rip the Jacker, not with an A. Rip the Jacker, studio album from 2003 by Cannabis.
marty derosa
Cannabis.
Did Cannabis have a feud with LL Cool J?
Was he the one about the tattoo?
Pass me the mic.
dan friesen
I believe so.
marty derosa
He wanted to get the tattoo, the LL Cool J microphone tattoo.
And LL goes, nah, man, get your own.
What's wrong?
You're laughing so much.
dan friesen
I was just looking at the track list for Rip the Jacker.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
The first song is called Genobus.
marty derosa
Genobus?
dan friesen
Genesis Genobus.
Second track?
Levitibus.
marty derosa
Oh my god.
I love it.
dan friesen
I wish you had just kept that going, but he doesn't.
marty derosa
I actually saw him perform that whole album after Wizard of the Hood at the gathering.
dan friesen
Was there any other great album?
marty derosa
Warren G. came to just do Regulator.
dan friesen
Really?
Just a one song set?
marty derosa
A one and done.
dan friesen
He didn't do this DJ?
unidentified
Nope.
marty derosa
I was like, oh, what's he going to do next?
And he's like, bye, everybody.
And that was it.
unidentified
Bam.
marty derosa
Boy, Warren.
Nate Dogg is really missed without.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
We kind of handled the Nate Dogg version.
dan friesen
The whole crowd?
marty derosa
Part of it.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
That's kind of fun.
marty derosa
Yeah.
36 Mafia was supposed to be there.
dan friesen
They didn't show?
marty derosa
No, I think they did, but later.
dan friesen
It was just Crunchy Black who showed up?
unidentified
No.
marty derosa
They apparently have some type of super group now.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
I mean, they always have had the Hypnotized Minds Collective.
marty derosa
I don't know.
And then there was another group.
dan friesen
So it was sort of like a.
When I performed with Two Live Crews, just Fresh Kid Ice and some other dudes, it was like that?
marty derosa
No, no, no.
unidentified
Oh.
marty derosa
36 Mafia was supposed to show up, Juicy J. DJ Paul.
Yeah.
dan friesen
Not Crunchy Black anymore.
He left the group.
marty derosa
Kelly the Rippa.
dan friesen
She does a lot of chorus work.
marty derosa
They were supposed to do a song, but then they were also, apparently, from what I heard, they have some type of super group with some juggalos.
dan friesen
Oh, I was unaware of that.
marty derosa
Something.
dan friesen
That's smart.
marty derosa
Yeah.
dan friesen
Good marketing.
marty derosa
I tell you what, if you are a recording artist of note and your career needs a little shot in the arm and you feel the industry might be ignoring you, uh huh.
I tell you what.
dan friesen
Go over there.
marty derosa
There's a whole world waiting for you.
dan friesen
What's great about it, too, is you can go over there and people who aren't juggalos aren't going to hate you, but you'll get this huge group of people who will love you.
marty derosa
Absolutely.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
And I think, you know, it was fun.
dan friesen
I like to think that if Jack the Ripper was alive now, he'd have a great time at the gathering.
marty derosa
No, we wouldn't accept it because we're kicked out.
dan friesen
No, he'd be kicked out.
marty derosa
Murder is not allowed at the gathering.
dan friesen
That ain't in with family.
marty derosa
Like if he tried to kill his first person, I would be like, Jack.
And he'd be like, what?
And he'd be like, Jack.
unidentified
Jack.
marty derosa
Don't do it.
You'd be like, whoop, whoop.
unidentified
Whoop, whoop.
dan friesen
My bad.
My bad.
Let me get in that net.
marty derosa
I'm a little over, and this is going back to the gathering.
I wish I talked about this at the beginning.
I'm a little over the news crews, the reporters coming being like, what a freak show.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
marty derosa
Like, we're still doing that story.
dan friesen
That's lame as hell.
marty derosa
We're really still doing, like, my friend Nathan Rabin wrote a book.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
Great book.
About gathering.
dan friesen
You don't know me, but you wouldn't like me.
marty derosa
But you already hate me, or you don't like me, about fish fans and the ICP fans.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
And that, and this is a dude who is not just like, look at these fucking weirdos, which I've seen that story.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
Um, Rabin's book is really gentle and interesting.
marty derosa
Well, and it comes from a place of love because he's a fish fan and he's a juggalo.
dan friesen
Yeah, and there's a lot of humanity.
marty derosa
And he, and he's, he was there this year.
He's always like, he loves it.
dan friesen
The idea of people mocking it is also just as a whole is lame.
unidentified
Right.
marty derosa
And it's just a shortcut.
It's just, it's, it's, it's the stuff.
It's a stereotype.
It's just as dumb as saying like, All, uh, you know, Hillary voters are this, or all Trump voters are that, or all, all Jewish people are that.
dan friesen
It's, it's a stupid thing.
If you like rap, you're an idiot.
marty derosa
Sure.
unidentified
That sort of thing, yeah.
marty derosa
And, uh, again.
dan friesen
Generalizations are stupid.
marty derosa
Again, I will say that, uh, at no time, at no time there, did I fear for my safety, which people can't believe.
dan friesen
That's nuts.
I fear for my safety walking down the streets of Lakeview.
marty derosa
At no time.
unidentified
Dan.
dan friesen
I'm just scared all the time.
marty derosa
I've gotten in, I've gotten in almost more fights at, uh, at, uh, Ian's Pizza or Demos, whatever it is over here, the pizza place.
I almost got a fight there the other day.
dan friesen
Yeah.
Not at the gathering.
marty derosa
Not at the gathering.
Not at two times at the gathering versus one time getting pizza out of place.
dan friesen
That's nuts.
Well, on that note, Jack the Ripper, we don't know who you are, but I do think that you're this Charles Lachmere guy.
This is unsatisfying.
marty derosa
Dan, we might get sued by his estate for that.
unidentified
I don't think so.
That's what.
dan friesen
I don't think you can get sued for saying you think something.
unidentified
I don't know, but who knows?
dan friesen
Allegedly.
unidentified
I think Jack the Ripper is all marketing.
All sizzle.
No sauce?
What do they say?
dan friesen
All sizzle, no bacon.
marty derosa
All sizzle, no bacon.
dan friesen
I don't think that's it.
marty derosa
I don't know.
dan friesen
Um, so yeah, who knows?
This is slightly unsatisfying, but still fun.
This has been a good time.
marty derosa
Listen, Marty.
unidentified
Listen.
marty derosa
I could sit and talk to you about murder.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
All the goddamn time.
dan friesen
Damn right.
Uh, and you know what else people should do all the damn time?
Go to your Twitter over at Marty DeRosa.
marty derosa
And they should go to your Twitter over at Freezing Point.
dan friesen
Sure.
And please, website's Freezing Point.
Please subscribe to the podcast.
I'm going to do way less marketing in the future.
marty derosa
What's new over there at Freezing Point?
dan friesen
I mean, we got Buds on Film.
We've got some movie stuff.
I'm going to do some solo episodes regularly by myself.
marty derosa
Buds on Film?
unidentified
What?
dan friesen
Buds on Film?
Oh, no, Just the regular podcast.
Just me and people.
marty derosa
I will say this.
dan friesen
People can call in and talk to me one on one as well.
marty derosa
I will say this.
dan friesen
Yeah.
marty derosa
Those solo podcasts can't be easy to do.
dan friesen
No, it's a challenge, but it's fun.
I like it.
marty derosa
And you do a good job.
dan friesen
Thank you.
marty derosa
I'm a big fan.
dan friesen
I appreciate that very much.
I'm also a big fan of yours and your work over at Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling.
marty derosa
That's right.
dan friesen
And Wrestling with Depression, your two banner podcasts.
You can check those out over there.
marty derosa
Dan, if you would have told me one of those podcasts would have been mine, I would have said, You're crazy.
Let alone the fact that both.
No, I'm kidding.
dan friesen
Formerly number 33 in the sports ratings.
marty derosa
We're in the top 100, and we're very happy.
dan friesen
Entrenched.
marty derosa
We are entrenched.
dan friesen
Uh, people should go check those out over at WrestlingWithDepression.com and at the iTunes for, uh, the Marty and SarahLoveWrestling.
marty derosa
And MartyandSarahLoveWrestling.com.
dan friesen
Oh, you got that one?
marty derosa
Fuck yeah, we got that one.
dan friesen
Uh, also.
marty derosa
Got that on lockdown, baby.
Uh, Squarespace, what's up?
dan friesen
ComediansyoushouldKnow.com.
Your show every Wednesday night here in Chicago.
What, you okay?
You almost did a spit take.
marty derosa
I just took a sip and I, I, I have a bottle of, uh, honest iced tea and you know how you put it above your bottom lip?
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
I went below my bottom lip on that one.
dan friesen
Marty.
marty derosa
And it went all over my face!
dan friesen
That is Amateur drinking.
marty derosa
That's not how they want you to drink.
dan friesen
That's not how they want you to drink.
Also, please do enjoy Jam Sandwich.
Check that out.
Our friend Nick Rowley is playing the best over at manontop69.com.
You guys should check it out.
marty derosa
Dan, I love what you're doing.
dan friesen
Thanks.
marty derosa
I want you to keep doing what you're doing.
dan friesen
I'm going to try and do most of it.
marty derosa
You're winning the brain battle.
dan friesen
We've got to get better topics.
We really need to plan a little better on that.
This is probably an off the air conversation.
marty derosa
Oh, let's do this.
dan friesen
Okay.
marty derosa
Let's do.
That's what they want you to think, AMA.
dan friesen
Okay.
marty derosa
Sure.
I think that would be fascinating and fun.
dan friesen
I would be down to do it.
marty derosa
It would give us lots of.
It would give us the opportunity to hit a lot of subjects that we don't want to do a whole episode on.
unidentified
Sure.
marty derosa
You know, just quick little, like, hey, what do you think happened here?
Or what do you think about this?
And then if we feel like we're onto something, we'll put that aside and make that an episode.
dan friesen
We might do this.
We'll talk about it.
Anyway, this has been fun.
Barty, thanks for joining.
Uh, we already did some plugs.
We don't need to do that again.
marty derosa
I don't want to plug anymore, man.
dan friesen
I'm tired.
marty derosa
Listen, guys, there's a brain battle going on out there, okay?
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
We're all fighting in it.
dan friesen
Be on the right side.
marty derosa
Be on the right side.
Be on the kind side.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
marty derosa
Fight the power.
Fight the power.
unidentified
Um.
marty derosa
Don't fire people in the middle of the night if you're a clown.
Honor your contracts.
dan friesen
And don't get hot.
marty derosa
This is why you sign a contract with clowns.
dan friesen
Yeah, seriously.
They're notoriously wiggly.
Get out of those deals.
Uh, guys, thanks for joining us here in Boomtown.
We'll catch you next time here on the podcast.
But until then, I've been Bogle Jub, the White Mystery.
Now, please, get out there.
Go do your job.
Which, what is it, Marty?
marty derosa
It's to love somebody.
unidentified
Yeah.
marty derosa
And not murder them.
unidentified
Don't murder people.
marty derosa
That's what they want you to think.
That's what they want you to think.
That is what they want you to fucking think.
dan friesen
What do my neighbors think of us singing this song?
unidentified
They can't hear the background music.
Check the ripper.
marty derosa
He was a dude who probably just killed a couple women in the streets because he probably had some weird sex thing going on.
Weird Dick Theory 00:00:41
dan friesen
Weird dick, probably.
marty derosa
Weird dick, definitely.
Weird dick, possibly.
Fuck that weird dick, most certainly.
That's what they want.
You to think he had a weird crankbag.
What he didn't want you to see when he took his trousers and bloomers off.
You can't have bad teeth and a weird dick, Dan.
unidentified
No way.
marty derosa
That is a deadly combination for the ladies of the night.
dan friesen
Still, my family crest.
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