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March 14, 2024 - Sean Hannity Show
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Matt Towery the Insider - March 13th, Hour 3
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News Roundup and information overload.
All right, News Roundup and information overload.
Our toll-free telephone number is 800-941-SHAWN.
If you want to be a part of the program, I'm expecting the full decision from the judge in the Fonnie Willis case down in Fulton County, Georgia.
Seems like a lot of untruth was said under oath on that stand and the nature of the relationship with her boyfriend who had no experience on any of these criminal matters that came up in the charges against Trump and associates.
The developing story that is coming out of Georgia today is a judge now dropping some of the RICO charges against President Trump.
And anyway, it's just kind of a fascinating development.
Now, we usually have our friend Matt Towery the pollster from Insider Advantage on the show.
He's also got his own podcast about polling with Robert Cahaley.
We have a link on Hannity.com if you want to listen to it.
It's really well done.
But what many may not know is he once ran for lieutenant governor in the great state of Georgia and was a Georgia legislator for a number of years and was a TV star for a number of years.
But he's a lawyer by craft.
Also joining us with him is Chuck Clay, a former Georgia legislator and a former GOP party chair.
We're trying to get a little inside baseball here.
There's so many uncertainties regarding this case.
I've got to imagine the judge eventually has to disqualify her from being involved in this case.
And I would say that the charges that have been laid out in Georgia probably, if they want to bring them back up, they would need to get a new venue for fairness, number one.
And number two, what about all the people that made plea deals?
And people, you'd say, well, Hannity, they made it a deal.
They got to stick by it.
A lot of people make plea deals just to stay out of jail.
A lot of people make plea deals even if they don't think they're guilty.
They make the plea deal because the risk of going before a jury and risking jail time is just too great for them.
And that needs to be put in context.
Anyway, welcome both of you, Chuck and Matt.
Good to have you both on the program.
Pleasure.
All right, Matt, we get to use you in a new capacity, not as the great pollster and accurate pollster that you've been this entire campaign season, but now as we put your attorney hat back on, even though I know you've become an early bird special guy in Florida, which I'm not going to allow to continue.
And anyway, what's going on here with the RICO charges?
And what about all these people?
If Fonnie Willis is off this case and they have to start over again, what do they do with the people that pled guilty and made a plea deal because they didn't want to risk going to jail?
Well, you know, Chuck can speak better than that because he actually was a prosecutor at one time.
What I can tell you is going on right now is you had several counts that weren't pled with enough specificity, and that's required under Georgia law in order to move forward.
And so the judge set those aside.
And this case is just slowly but surely shrinking.
It's shrinking in terms of time because the issues that have arisen with regard to the relationship between the prosecutor and the individual she chose to handle this case has caused a delay.
And regardless of how the judge rules, and I will say this, Sean, I think Chuck would agree with me.
This judge has been very judicious.
He seems to be doing a great job.
And I don't usually comment on members of Georgia bar.
but this case is going to be delayed, delayed, delayed.
And I think what happened today is it going to be delayed or does the judge actually hit the reset button and say that there's too many conflicts of interest here and too many issues, uh, surrounding whether or not, uh, ethics were violated left and right, that in good conscience, this case needs to be thrown out and then it may be sent to a different venue.
If, if even pursued at all.
Well, I think the issue of it being thrown out is I think most Georgia lawyers would agree is unlikely.
But it being set to another prosecutor through a system that we have in Georgia to deal with that is a high possibility.
And certainly if they allow the new evidence, and I don't know if the judge is going to allow that or not, but I do think that Chuck would agree with me that most people feel like this case has gone from being a burning meteor to having a parachute on it going much slower and not quite so hot.
Chuck, let's get your position on this case, and where do you see the judge going here?
He will make his decision this week.
Well, you've got a slew of different levels, and I know time is always short, but you've got the RICO prosecution itself.
You've got the court of public opinion, assuming this case stays within this venue.
And I think anything, and Matt's alluded to this, I think that anything that sort of chips away at the credibility and the underpinnings of a RICO case is probably not positive.
Look, the new evidence that we all have heard and read about, there's motions before the court to reopen evidence in the hearings that the judge has just completed on the recusal.
I don't know how they cannot reopen it.
I'm not certainly stating that it's true, but if there are allegations of perjury, that is a different ballgame altogether.
You've got to remember on the RICO side, and being the conservative as I am and having handled the RICO case, both in pimping and multi-state theft, these were traditional cases, and it's an unbroken chain to get a successful prosecution.
When I was a legislator, I passed the last RICO bill because I was familiar with this area.
And we never intended, and I signed an affidavit to that effect, for the RICO statute to be utilized in a political arena.
That's not to say you can't charge.
I would have charged somebody if I thought the basis was there to do so as a defendant or co-defendant.
It's simpler, it's quicker, but it is not as headline-grabbing as this nefarious RICO allegation that this is some octopus extending around the country, unbroken, all working in concert and all knowing that what they were doing is wrong and violative of the law.
I'm skeptical of that.
Well, wasn't there sworn testimony in this case and this analysis of Fonnie Willis and the ethics case contradicting both her and her boyfriend's statements about when the nature of when this relationship began?
Wasn't there also other evidence, perhaps circumstantial, phone records, et cetera, text emails that show a very different, tell a very different story than what they testified under oath to?
Absolutely.
And if those matters get before the court and the evidence is reopened under the underlying motions to quash this.
Well, wait a minute.
Isn't this before the court now?
Isn't the judge that we learned this in his hearings?
Well, you've learned this in this hearing, but there has been extensive corroboration by others, former prosecutors, in fact, that would, in essence, rebut the statements made under oath, as you know, both of you, under oath in court, that there's a very specific timeline.
And if there's evidence that can be shown and proven in the courtroom, which I seem to think is probably true, then you've got a whole different ballgame.
And I don't see.
Well, let me pursue this a little further with you based on what we know, the testimony, for example, of Bonnie Willis's friend that said that their relationship started in 2019.
And then, of course, then you've got emails and text messages and phone calls and locations and very specific times and places, don't you?
I thought that all came out.
Well, let me say, to just put another side to this, each one of those, all that testimony, if they had someone to impeach it, doesn't mean it was right, but that they had a counter to it.
And as to the phone records, the issue is whether there was a true expert who testified and could make that admissible before the court.
That's going to be up to the judge as well.
I think what we could say about this case is, Sean, that it has gone from looking like a pretty significant, serious case to being one that's slowly chipping away, fading away, and becoming sort of obfuscated through outside situations that no one expected when it came down last spring.
So this is certainly a different situation than anyone expected when we first saw the indictment.
Let me just very quickly that there is ample evidence before the court to order her either a recusal or dismissal from the matter.
We have a process in Georgia for another prosecutor to be assigned and appointed.
They're already on notice to do so if the judge rules that way.
Being a politician, I guess both of us, I'm still skeptical that the judge might do so, but I think the credibility as you go forward, if she is not recused, is in tatters.
But shouldn't the entire office be taken off the case?
And wouldn't a new prosecutor have to start from scratch at this point?
Wouldn't that be the fair thing to do?
Yes, sir.
I think what they would do.
What about all these people, if you don't mind me asking you, Chuck, what about all these people that made plea deals in this case?
And in every case that I can remember, I don't think anyone got any jail time.
What about those people?
And you know this, and Matt, you know this.
Sometimes people make a plea deal because they've got to weigh their options here.
And it's either you want to go to trial and prove your innocence and fight for your innocence, but if you lose, you risk going to jail.
Or they offer you a plea deal with no jail time.
You make an apology to the people of Georgia.
Maybe there's some impact on your life if, for example, you're a lawyer.
Maybe you risk getting your law license suspended.
Whatever that happens to be, you pay a fine.
What about those people that made deals for that reason, not because they felt that they were guilty?
Do those cases now as a matter of justice have to be reopened?
It's very difficult to reopen criminal pleas that are done knowingly and voluntarily.
However, having said that, Sean, your point is well taken.
As a lawyer for one of those defendants, depending on what occurs in the next few days or weeks, I would seriously consider filing either a motion to reopen an extraordinary motion to set aside conviction, and that's going to further gum up the works as this goes forward, particularly, obviously, if this unravels further.
There is a recusal, other evidence is before the court, and it continues to unwind.
Every one of these folks, every one of these folks will be calling their lawyers and saying, what are my options?
Yes, there are options.
It's difficult, but there are extraordinary, and there are motions that could be filed to set aside a plea and reopen the matter and have it dealt with on the facts.
Wouldn't you say that these are extraordinary circumstances?
Because I would.
I would.
Yeah, Matt, I'm sure you would too.
Yeah, most definitely.
And I'll end with this from my side, and that is the irony of all this is that if you had a very enterprising prosecutor who was politically motivated and really didn't understand the nuances, the true intent of the RICO statute, then all this stuff that you're seeing before the court right now, they could weave a pretty good RICO action against the people prosecuting these folks.
So it shows, and I don't favor that.
I don't think that would be an appropriate stance, but it just lets you, I mean, public money involved.
You have two or more people involved.
I mean, it's all the things that they're alleging on one side that could easily be put on the shoe on the other foot.
And that's the irony of this case.
And you take the visibility and the perception out when you start, if it stays in Fulton County and you're striking a jury, they're going to know this.
They may say this.
They are going to know this if it goes to a jury.
All right, quick break.
We'll come back.
This is getting more interesting by the day.
What's going on in Georgia?
The parts of this RICO case now falling apart and the whole issue about Fonnie Willis and her lover.
Anyway, we'll get more insight from Matt Towery and Chuck Clay are with us.
800-941, Sean is a number.
We'll get your calls in as well as we continue.
It's the Sean Hannity Show: News You'll Never Get from the Media Mob.
Every individual charged in the indictment is charged with one count of violating Georgia's racketeer, influenced, and corrupt organizations act through participation in a criminal enterprise in Fulton County,
Georgia, and elsewhere to accomplish the illegal goal of allowing Donald J. Trump to seize the presidential term of office beginning on January 20th, 21.
All right, we continue with Matt Towery, and Chuck Clay is with us talking about the issue of Fonnie Willis and the judge, well, knocking off some of the RICO charges against President Trump as we continue to analyze that cluster down there.
Look, I lived as maybe you don't know this, Chuck, but I lived in Georgia four years.
Matt and I became friends during that period.
And I could tell you the one place if you're a conservative or a Republican, you don't want to be in a courtroom is Fulton County, Georgia.
And I don't think Donald Trump, Matt, can get a fair trial in New York, certainly not D.C. and Fulton County, Georgia.
They might be the top three in the country of choosing not to be on trial.
It's not the venue you want to choose if you're Donald Trump or any of these Republicans.
I could certainly say that.
Ma'am, they won't get a slammed on a jury.
And look, you got to get 12.
It has to be unanimous.
If you're using RICO, it has to be a clear, unbroken chain of conduct knowingly wrong at the time.
And they may not get an acquittal, but I'm not sure you can get a conviction either.
That's just my opinion.
Oh, it's pretty interesting times.
I'll tell you both that.
Thank you both.
Matt Towery and Chuck Clay.
Thank you both.
We appreciate you being here.
800-941 Sean.
By the way, don't forget Matt's podcast.
You can catch it with Robert Cahaley.
We have a link on Hannity.com.
It's called Polling Plus, if you want to listen.
They're always talking about numbers and polls, and it really brings you in the insight of that.
You know, based on the last two days of Christopher Ray, your FBI director's testimony, and we've played this.
You know, he said two days ago that, in fact, there were people connected to ISIS coming into our southern border.
And, you know, the threat level has never been this bad in our adult lifetime.
Warning of a veritable rogue, you know, gallery of rogue foreign terrorist organizations that are in this country.
That means he's saying terror cells are here, and the chatter has never been this loud.
And this is exactly what I've been warning you is the real clear present danger to this country right now.
And this is what Joe Biden's, you know, open borders, illegal, unvetted immigrants are bringing with them nearly 10 million coming from some of our most hostile regimes.
Now, the leader for the Democrats in the Senate, the guy by the name of Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, Chucky from New York.
Never liked me very much.
Never would take my calls.
We tried to get him to come on shows.
He would never come.
I have no problem in Florida now, my new home state.
But anyway, let's go back in time, shall we?
Let's go back to 2009, and here's Chuck Schumer sounding a lot like me.
Listen.
People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens, and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the U.S. legally.
Illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple.
Until the American people are convinced that we will stop future flows of illegal immigration, we will make no progress on dealing with the millions of illegal immigrants who are here now.
When we use phrases like undocumented workers, we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose.
If you don't think it's illegal, you're not going to say it.
I think it is illegal and wrong.
Yeah, Chuck Schumer, illegal immigrant.
You can't say they're undocumented.
That minimizes what it is.
Yeah.
Wow.
Is anybody in the mob and the media going to say, Chuck, do you still agree with what you said in 2009?
Nah.
Why would they ever do that?
Anyway, 800-941-Sean, our number, if you want to be a part of the program, West Virginia, Richard, next on the Sean Hennity Show.
Richard, how are you?
By the way, you know, your state got mocked on Super Tuesday by those idiots that were giggling on MSDNC.
You know, Joy Reed and circleback Jensaki and conspiracy theorist extraordinaire Rachel Maddow, the biggest conspiracy theorist in the country.
You know, when they said, oh, the number one issue on the minds of voters in the Commonwealth of Virginia is illegal immigration.
Oh, well, they're next to West Virginia.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
And by the way, tell that to the 14-year-old girl from Virginia that was raped by a Venezuelan illegal immigrant that's charged with raping a 14-year-old girl.
Or tell it to Lake and Riley's family.
Are they going to still giggle in front of their parents?
Anyway, glad you called.
Welcome to the program, Richard.
Thanks for taking my call, Sean.
Longtime listener, first on caller.
Here's the thing.
First of all, when it comes to making fun of West Virginia, nobody makes fun of it better than us that live here.
Okay.
And we're used to it.
It's like water off a duck's back because we know the truth.
It's a beautiful state, great place to live.
And yeah, I've been here.
I'm just an old hillbilly.
I've been here for 58 years.
And here's the thing.
When Biden said he was an illegal immigrant, it was possibly the truest thing Biden has ever said in his career.
Okay?
Because you can't call him undocumented.
Jose Abayara was stopped at the border and then released because he didn't have space for him.
He was arrested in New York for endangering a child and let go.
So obviously he was documented.
What he is is illegal.
And my public education, my public college tells, I have to ask the question, is coming here from another country to go on a crime spree, is that really immigration?
Is that what immigration means?
I mean, it's gotten so bad.
I mentioned this earlier.
And you know that California, they have a bill out there to protect violent, illegal immigrants from deportation.
Can you believe how insane that the left has gotten in this country?
Can you believe that Joe apologizes to the suspected murderer of Lake and Riley for calling him accurately illegal?
And so I should have said on document, I regret what I said, but never called the parents of Lake and Riley saying, I regret I didn't get your daughter's first name right.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
The times we're living unbelievable.
When you talk about that party changing, it's real simple.
I grew up in West Virginia.
My dad, my mom, they were raised, you vote for the Democrat because he's for the working guy.
Okay?
And what really made my parents wake up and change their mind was when somebody went through the church parking lot putting flyers under the windshield wipers outlining the Democrats stance on full-term abortion.
That made them realize, hey, maybe this is not the party of our parents.
You know, when you think about it, I got into this with Gavin Newsom, and I tried to push hard.
I'm like, are there any restrictions at all you would support on the issue of abortion?
And what Democrats usually say their talking point is, is nobody should be in the room with a doctor and the doctor's patient.
Do you support any restrictions at all?
Nobody should be in the room.
The answer then is no, they don't support.
Many of them don't support any restrictions at all.
And Republicans need to get that message out.
Now, there aren't many people, I'm sure, that think like that idiot, you know, former Governor Northam out of Virginia who said, well, first you deliver the baby and then you make the baby comfortable and then the doctor and the mother will have a conversation.
Nobody's that extreme, but I think Republicans are on defense on the issue of abortion too much.
This is now a state-by-state issue.
New York and California are going to have very liberal abortion laws in perpetuity as far as my eye can see.
And then there will be variations.
Now, politically, I think if Republicans take very, very hardline positions like no exceptions for rape, incest, or the mother's life, or if they have a very short window for people to get an abortion where maybe even women don't even know they're pregnant, I think politically, hear me now, I'm saying politically that it is an untenable position and they will lose elections because of it.
And they need to understand the Democrats, even if they support abortion on demand for the first trimester or like Dobbs 15 weeks, there's still going to be demagoguery by the Democrats.
They're going to lie about Republicans.
You've got to be ready to counter that lie.
That's what happened in District 3 in New York, which the Swazi over Mozzie Pillow.
And it'll happen in every race around the country.
I would argue that's why the red wave never appeared in 2022.
It was a big reason.
Anyway, do you agree with that?
Oh, without a doubt.
And here's the thing.
I am not a fan of it.
I believe that, you know, the baby was put in the womb by divine intervention.
And that, you know, if you have any belief, if you say that you're a Christian, how could you look at somebody and say, no, God was wrong.
I'm going to kill this child?
Listen, I just look at it in a different way.
I understand a political truth.
Whether you're going to like this truth or not, is abortion is always, in our lifetime, it will be legal in the United States of America.
States will have varying laws and restrictions, and some states will have basically no restrictions, but it's going to be legal.
In other words, anybody that really wants an abortion, they're going to be able to get one.
And for some people, it may mean travel.
They may be able to get it in their home state, depending on what that state's laws happen to be.
But, you know, being a believer in the sanctity of life, as you are, I support groups like Preborn.com because Preborn gives free ultrasounds.
And through the science of ultrasound, when they introduce expecting moms for free to the miracle of birth within them, the choice, if they were contemplating abortion, it goes down dramatically.
So I think that's where you appeal to people's hearts.
At the end of the day, it's going to be about hearts.
It's not going to be about whatever state you're in and whatever the law happens to be, because if you really want an abortion, you're going to find one.
That makes sense.
Do you agree with that?
Yeah, that makes sense.
And you and I basically grew up under Roe v.
Wade.
I didn't care for it because I have a pretty, you know, strong stance on it, but it was acceptable.
It was to it.
Well, it's really not any different, if anything.
I mean, it allows states to be more restrictive than Roe v.
Wade in some cases.
And maybe your state of West Virginia is one of them.
I don't know off the top of my head what West Virginia's law is.
If I had to guess, it's 12 to 15 weeks.
That's what my guess would be.
That seems to be where the consensus is in the country.
You know, Bill Clinton, of all people, said abortion should be legal and rare.
I would add legal, rare, and early if you're just looking at it from the political vantage point.
Again, politically.
So anyway, I hope that answers your point there.
I appreciate it.
Back to our phones.
We have Etha is with us.
Etha is in Washington state.
Etha, how are you?
Glad you called.
Hi, Sean.
Hey, listen, I was wondering why hasn't Congress invited David Sierra, who used to be the National Archives Director from 2009 until 2022.
It seems to me that this whole discussion in regards to Robert Hur and Jack Smith and everything, it's all putting, they're putting the cart before the horse.
Jack Smith and Robert Hur are the carts.
The horse is the National Archives.
Because David Sierra, why is it they get $400 million and why don't they have one staff member assigned to an outgoing president, be it Obama, be it Trump, be it Pence, be it Joe Biden from the Naval Observatory or from the White House?
Why doesn't the National Archives, they get paid a bunch of money.
They have only one darn job, in my opinion, to do, which is to make sure that there is classified documents taken and blah, blah, blah.
Now, these people are moving out of the Naval Observatory and the White House, and they're moving.
And so why isn't there somebody from the National Archives there?
So why doesn't Congress have David Fiero, who was the former National Archives person, as well as Colleen Shogun in front of Congress and questioning them.
What is your policy?
What is the National Archives policy to help?
I hear everything you're saying.
And the answer to your question is there isn't one standard.
There just isn't.
And because they've allowed this to happen administration after administration after administration.
And that's on them, frankly.
But this is the only time they actually raided a former president's residence, knowing that other presidents have had the same issues, knowing, frankly, that Joe Biden's problems were far worse and Hillary's was far worse.
But they didn't hold them to account.
Yeah, we're spending a lot of money.
And what do we have?
We have nothing but abusively biased institutions in government, just like the DOJ.
It's sad.
It's really scary, too.
All right, that's going to wrap things up for today.
We are loaded up.
We have more fallout from the her hearings, the Robert Her hearings.
I always say think Robert Ben-Hur, our former nickname.
Anyway, Jonathan Turley, we'll check in with Senator Josh Hawley tonight.
Bad economic news across the board.
We'll check in with Brian Brenberg and Mike Huckabee.
Also, the mob, the media losing their minds.
Joe Concha, Tudor Dixon will weigh in on that.
And my colleague Benjamin Hall will join us.
What a long road to recovery.
And what an incredible human being he is.
Say you DBR, 9 Eastern, Hannity, Fox News.
See you tonight.
Back here tomorrow.
Thank you for making this show possible.
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