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Aug. 20, 2021 - Rudy Giuliani
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UNDERWAY: A Counter-revolution to the American Revolution | Mark Levin | Ep. 164
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Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani, and I'm back with another edition of Rudy's Common Sense.
And today, we have the great honor and privilege of speaking to Mark Levin.
Mark is one of the most important voices in America, one of the most influential, and right now, one of the most critical, I think.
He's written seven books, almost all of which were bestsellers.
The new one is, I would say, a super bestseller, and maybe the most timely that he's written.
American Marxism.
He also, as you know, has a radio show every day.
He has a television show on the weekends, Life, Liberty & Levin, which has made a terrific hit.
And it's a good old-fashioned interview show, more like one-on-one instead of those big giant things, and he really can get into detail with people.
And before that, he was a lawyer in the Justice Department.
First of all, I'm doing great.
had the great privilege of working with Rush Limbaugh and you can see that that
really brushed off on him. And I can't think of anyone that is more important
to us right now because what we're going to talk about than someone like Mark and
in particular Mark. Mark how are you? First of all I'm doing great. I want to
thank you for that very very kind introduction and I want the people also
know how much I admire you, your courage, your principles, your steadfastness all
throughout your career and And I want to thank you for everything you've been doing.
Well, mutual.
So, Mark, you know, you and I, I know, agree that right now we are in the middle of, we can call it a broad-based attack on America, our values, our form of government, our way of life.
It shows itself in many different forms.
Attack on freedom of religion, attack on the right to defend yourself, attack on due process, double standard for Democrats and not necessarily Republicans, but anybody associated with Trump.
Oh gosh, we could go through so many things.
But I think the value of this book is, this isn't just coincidental.
It's not as if all these, probably 12, 13 different areas of attack are going on separately.
There's a plan, there's a focus to it, and I think that's why this book, number one, is so important.
And if I may say so, I think that's why it's doing so well, because there's a real need for it.
Can you explain how you came to write it and what it's intended to do?
You know, Rudy, it's a great question.
Depending on the situation at the time, depending on what I'm thinking about, I circle the subject for a while.
I don't just start writing.
I think about, okay, what do I want to say that matters?
What do I want to say that I should apply hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of hours of my time to researching and writing since I do my own research and write my own books?
And then to ask somebody to spend $16.80 on Amazon for a book, there has to be a reason, right?
So I don't write about myself.
That's not worth $16.80.
But that said, this book was a 16-month project.
Weekends, early mornings, late at night.
My poor wife and family had to put up with me.
And all that said, it wasn't until the last four or five months of writing it that everything came together, both intellectually and in terms of writing it and putting it together.
And this title came to me, American Marxism.
More research I did, the more it led me to the same place.
You know, we talk about progressivism, liberalism, democratic socialism, this-ism, that-ism, and all these isms seem to lead to the same place.
Progressivism, which really began in earnest with intellectuals about 120 years ago, late 1800s,
early 1900s. They self-identify and give themselves these lovely names like progressive when they're
not.
And I looked at each one of these men at the time, top leading intellectuals, whether it was John Dewey or Crowley or Woodrow Wilson or whomever, and they all were very taken by Marx or taken by Marxism.
And I realized some time ago, but I was able to really put it to paper, that these are basically the progeny of Marxism.
This is the American application of Marxism, that they hate the limits in the Constitution.
That's why they call it living and breathing.
That's why they're constantly attacking it, starting with the Bill of Rights, which of course we embrace.
Then I saw how they would attack the Declaration of Independence, which is basically a statement of embracing Western Enlightenment.
That's what the Declaration of Independence is.
Natural law, Judeo-Christian morality, and so forth.
They rejected them.
And as I read deeper and studied more, I saw an individual like John Dewey, who destroyed our education system, he was so key at the time to this movement, that he actually visited Moscow in 1928.
You know, when Stalin was a known commodity, a killer, and so forth.
He admired their educational system because he said it didn't focus on individualism, it focused on unity and the community and the usual stuff.
Not to get too deep in the weeds, Rousseau, Hegel, and then Marx, which is you have to surrender your individualism and your free will to the community, which really means the state.
That also means mobility, private property rights, all these other things that are defended and fought for at the founding, defended in the Constitution, And are based on our principles.
And I realized then that, uh, these people do not, this isn't just a debate on the fringes of the constitution.
This is a debate over fundamentals.
And, and then I started researching things that came to be, I didn't expect it to critical race theory, this transgender movement, so-called climate change.
It turns out it's a degrowth movement that grew in the seventies out of Europe.
All these different things.
And then you hear Biden speak and the others speak.
They always speak in class warfare.
Victim, victimizer, oppressed, oppressor.
They use the language of Marx.
And then if you mention Marx, they're, what, are you calling me a Marxist?
You know, that sort of thing.
Now, it's a little different, Rudy, in this sense.
They're not, you know, like the old Marxists, the old communists.
They're not, they're not claiming allegiance to the Soviet Union or anything of that sort.
The book's called American Marxism, because these movements are clearly Marxist movements.
BLM, they confess, they proudly celebrate the fact that the leaders are Marxists.
The climate change movement, the Green New Deal, these members of the Democrats, members of the House, they're cabal of Marxists.
You know, AOC and so forth, in so many ways.
So they're not about One degree change in the temperature or something like that, as if we can affect it.
They're about an attack on our capitalist system.
Now, why?
Because Marx particularly hated the American Industrial Revolution.
Because the American Industrial Revolution, under Marxism, was supposed to show that the proletariat would rise up, the workers, and overthrow the bourgeoisie, the industrialists, the landlords.
But what did it show?
It showed The American people rose up, created a massive middle class that loves their country and will fight to support their country.
So they demonstrate, and the Industrial Revolution demonstrates, that everything Marx stood for was wrong.
These are fraud.
So there's this constant attack on the American economic system, constant attempt to transfer wealth from the private sector to the government, constant use of the model language that Marx uses.
And I said, look, We kind of have the courage to call this what it is and stop pussyfooting around here because we're losing our country.
So that's a long way to answer your question.
Time to take a short break.
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Welcome back to our interview with Mark Levin.
No, no, I think you did answer it.
And the reality is we've come a long way that we can actually write about this and talk about it.
And, you know, sometimes I find myself when I'm on radio or giving a speech or answering a question, talking about the fact that this is basically a communist type revolution, that they want to completely change our form of government.
This isn't the old liberal Conservative debate.
They want to tax more.
We want to tax less.
They want a little more government.
We want less government.
We're tougher on military.
They're weaker.
This is... We don't want a Bill of Rights.
You can't have a gun.
We're going to take away the Second Amendment.
We're going to keep all the guns and you're going to have none.
Honestly, they really don't want us to believe in God.
And they'd rather us not be a family.
Because then the state can control the child.
And when you look at all the things that are happening in schools, we haven't quite gotten to the state taking over the child, but now children can be vaccinated without their parents' consent.
They can be given condoms without their parents' consent.
Who knows?
Pretty soon they'll be able to change their gender without their parents' consent.
Because the theory is the parent doesn't really know, the state knows.
So now I think enough of that has been obvious to the American people.
We actually can have this discussion without sounding like we're crazy old McCarthy nuts who see communists everywhere.
And that's why the book is so valuable.
It makes a connection.
And all of a sudden, something like climate change, which you would never think of, is connected to Black Lives Matter.
And Black Lives Matter, I think, has helped us.
In the sense that they've been so honest.
They're the one organization that is not afraid to say, Patrisse Cullors very proudly said, I'm a, not just a Marxist, I'm a very well-trained Marxist.
And then when you look at her program, it's take the child away at two years old.
You don't really need husbands.
They're kind of an appendage that just suppresses, religion suppresses, and you read it and you realize this organization that kind of captured these shootings to get attention has nothing to do with it.
It has to do with gender, and it has to do with politics.
It has nothing to do with black lives.
But they're getting pretty darn far.
On education, they've almost accomplished most of their goals.
And on media, they must control 70% to 80% of the media The censorship over the last year and a half, Mark, I've never seen that before here, and I think it may be worse than in some communist countries.
I know you said we have fewer rights now than we had on the George III, and a lot of people criticized that.
Isn't that correct?
Did you say that?
I said almost the same thing.
I believe, you know, in terms of censorship, There may be some dictatorships where people have a few more rights than we do.
You know, Rudy, I said that, and of course, the usual... I love it when you do that.
Same stuff Bush needs to do.
I poke them in the eye, they don't like it.
This American Marxist movement, they don't want to be questioned.
They don't want to be challenged.
So when you say something like I did last week, And I said, we have less liberty today than we did prior to the revolution.
They bring up slavery and indigenous peoples.
This is how stupid they are.
I'm talking about the attack on the civil society, the civil society.
I'm talking about the attack on Western civilization.
And that is when you have the attack that you have now on free speech, when it was understood back then, That it was a moral right.
And when you have an attack on representative government, that most of the laws being passed in this country aren't passed by our representatives.
And when you have an attack on the nature of the citizenry with an open border, intentionally by one party, and we know that because they don't let the Cubans in, but everybody else can come in depending on what they think they will register one day.
And down the list, one after another, after another, after another, I say this.
We're not really a representative republic anymore.
They pass omnibus bills.
We don't even know what it's in.
We don't even know what to say to our congressmen or senators when we vote.
We're not really a federal republic anymore.
You can see the attack on the states.
And we're not really a constitutional republic anymore, because you can see with a simple majority in the House of four or five and no majority in the Senate, where the vice president breaks the tie that they believe they can fundamentally alter the constitutional system.
I don't think the framers of the Constitution would think we have much of a system left.
Now, the American Marxists, they use the Constitution to try and destroy the Constitution, and they use liberty to try and destroy liberty, and they'll do whatever they have to do to advance their cause.
They'll use Olinsky, like the vicious assaults on you and me and others.
They'll use Cloud and Piven.
You see the overwhelming of the system on the southern border, the breaking of the system, and then blaming the victims, the American people for the system. You can
see the they use these communist ideals, these various tenured or living and dead professors,
their ideologies. This is the stuff that is taught day in and day out in our universities and
colleges and now is leached into our public schools and even into elementary schools.
And you can see them putting it to work.
It's that simple. They are. There's no question about it.
And one of the core assets that communism, Marxism, socialism has, they have no morality.
it.
Morality is irrelevant because morality is do whatever is necessary for the predominance of the state, including cheating, lying, stealing.
Well, and even in certain cases, killing.
So there's no, there's no 10 commandments.
There's no moral base.
You can justify everything as helping the state.
You know, we, you and I, particularly me, I grew up during the cold war.
So when I first went into the justice department, we were developing the FISA court.
And I spent my first two years doing FISA warrants, but for communist spies.
And that's almost like it doesn't exist anymore.
But I remember that, and about two years ago, watching what you're watching, it all started coming back to me.
Like, I'm seeing the same things I used to read about and had forgotten about.
And this next two elections, then, that's really the critical point, isn't it?
We're going to go in this direction, or we're going to make a complete reversal.
I think they're more critical than any in history.
Well, what's frightening, Rudy, is that if the Democrats had 51 or 52 members in the Senate, we couldn't stop them.
And so it's unrealistic to believe that we can win every subsequent election, because we're not.
So this is a very slippery glide path that we're on.
And there's things that need to be done to fight this and to fight these various institutions that have developed over time.
that have networked over time.
Because if the American people in the end don't want their liberty, there's not going to be liberty.
If the American people in the end keep voting for tyrants, then we're going to have tyrants.
If the American people in the end don't rise up against institutionalized corruption and criminality, which I think exists throughout Washington and so forth, then we're going to get more of it.
So the point of this book It's the longest book I've ever written, but it's got the fewest chapters, is the first six chapters is about informing.
I don't mean at a surface level, I mean going deep into what's going on in this country, in these various areas.
And then the last chapter is an attempt to galvanize and rally people who love this country.
I don't care what party, I don't care what race, I don't care about any of that.
If you love the country, that distinguishes you from these American Marxists.
If you love the country, if you love freedom, if you love a constitutional, honest rule of law, then you need to join us.
And we need to take on every one of these institutions, whether there's corporations, whether it's teacher unions, whether it's colleges and universities and how they tenure professors, whether it's what's going on on the border and so forth.
because if we don't stand up like past generations have, and even though this is in many ways more
daunting and complicated because it's internal, it's not, you know, foreign enemy with respect
to this, then we're going to lose because we're losing now.
We'll be back in a few minutes.
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Thanks for returning, you know the American liberal
That we grew up with or that I grew up with and you grew up with also
They were still there.
If there were still such a person left, it would be one of our strongest allies, even though they might disagree with us on a whole other area of our philosophy.
That would not be nearly as important as our right to free speech.
And the classic liberal was, I'll defend the right of someone I disagree with to speak, even more than someone I agree with, because that's the real test of your dedication to free speech.
You don't find that at all anymore.
That's actually a great point.
That's actually a great point.
We're fighting a totally different animal right now.
The old time liberals, I'm not that much younger than you, but the old time liberals we grew up with, They now, I guess, call them moderates and sellouts and all the rest of it, which is typical of the Marxist mentality.
You know, Marx hated socialists because he said these halfway measures are delaying the ultimate revolution.
And these socialists, they play footsie with the capitalists and they don't make the revolution inevitable and they delay it in some way.
So he despised socialists.
And what's interesting about that as a side point, The man who invented critical race theory, not critical theory, critical race theory, Derrick Bell, a law professor first at Stanford and then Harvard, he politely denounced Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement, the 64 and 65 Civil Rights Act, the Supreme Court decisions, all the progress that was made as a white man's ruse, as the white dominant society
Trying to paper over what took place and preventing the ultimate revolution.
And if you're not a white person and you're not quote-unquote down for this Marxist revolution, then they claim that it doesn't matter what your skin color is.
You have been colonized.
Your mind has been colonized.
You're part of the problem.
And so with the Marxists, you can never win.
They don't want free speech.
They don't want academic freedom.
They don't want an exchange of ideas, to your point about liberals and so forth.
They are on a mission, and their mission is conformity, uniformity, and to impose their will.
That's the bottom line.
I could find very few Democrats.
About a week ago, I tried to make the point Whatever you think of the case against Cuomo, either case, the women or the nursing home, and I think the nursing home case is being covered up by the Justice Department.
I can't say this definitively, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's already a deal for that to go away, because that case implicates three other governors, almost as much as him, Murphy, Newsom, and Whitmer.
So if that one—if they were to move on that one, of necessity, they'd have to go look at the other three.
The women, whatever you think of the allegations, some serious, some not so serious, it's kind of individual to him, and they've already done Me Too to everybody.
And I think they put the focus on that.
Now, here's what I objected to very strongly, the way she tried him by press conference.
An hour and a half press conference, laying out all the allegations of all these women, even doing things like pronouncing that they're credible.
The ABA has an actual rule that says that the one thing you can't do during a press conference about a case is announce your belief in the credibility of your witnesses.
Well, of course, you're taking over the function of a jury when you do that.
So I made this point.
The confusion it created was amazing.
You're defending Cuomo.
No, no, no.
I'm defending Cuomo as an example of why they should defend us for the same reason.
It doesn't matter if we're innocent or guilty.
We have a system for determining it.
We should respect it.
And the system is much wiser than we are.
It's been here for about 800 years with the Magna Carta.
And I found very few people, other than conservatives, who understood what I was saying.
They weren't even opposed to it.
They were confused by it.
They were actually confused by it.
Well, here's what I object to.
She issues this report, she has this press conference, and she takes no action whatsoever.
When it comes to Donald Trump, she aligns with the DA in Manhattan, a political hack, Vance.
When it comes to Cuomo, she didn't pick a single district attorney to work with on a criminal case.
She issues a report.
So I've been saying on radio and elsewhere, if she believes this, then she didn't do anything.
All she does is issue a report.
It's not the job of an attorney general is to issue a report and say, okay, there it is.
And so forth.
And of course you raise very, very good points.
And I, uh, I, the system Rudy is under attack.
The system is broken.
Uh, The end justifies the means, the old communist statement and motto, and that's what it is.
You know, Walter Durante worked for the New York Times and was a mouthpiece for Stalin in the 20s and 30s.
He was their bureau chief in Moscow.
He was the one who once said of Stalin, well, he has to break a few eggs to make an omelet.
Well, he broke more than a few eggs.
And the same New York Times, if I may, even though it's sort of a side point, They knew he was corrupt.
They knew he was on Stalin's payroll, stalling in girlfriends and food and all the rest.
And then, uh, shortly thereafter, the same New York times, whose bureau chief was sympathetic in Berlin to the third Reich.
And they covered up the Holocaust for most of the Holocaust up until 1944, even though the paper was owned by a Jewish family, the same New York times in 1959 through Herbert Matthews.
who breathed life into Castro's guerrilla campaign, and helped support his effort.
That's the New York Times that supported, in essence, Stalin, Hitler, and Castro.
And I've invited them to come on my program and debate me every step of the way.
So think about this, to make a long story, or to circle back.
Why the hell would they care about Duke process?
I mean, they have backed some of the most heinous, genocidal nutjobs the world has ever produced.
Ever produced.
Either through censorship or affirmative reporting.
And so, they want Cuomo out of... Look, I despise Cuomo.
I don't know the man.
I despise him.
But they want him out of the way because they want to bring a Letitia James in, or DiCameo in, or somebody who's so off the edge of the planet.
You know, he was a useful idiot for long enough.
And now they want to bring in somebody who's much more radical at this point.
That's my view.
We'll be back in a few minutes with Mark Levin.
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Let's get back to our interview.
It's the same New York Times that censored the hard drive.
I mean, I have never seen a more relevant piece of information to a presidential campaign.
It's seven years of text from the son of the presidential candidate, It is clearly his, you can identify his signature, all that nonsense about Russian collusion or Russian, it was a Russian product or Russian disinformation.
There's nothing Russian about it.
It came from a guy in Delaware, right?
And it could clearly be, it could be identified eight different ways.
So when I got it from my lawyer, Bob Costello, because the guy gave it to me because the FBI was sitting on it for eight months.
And he was watching television, and it's just a perfectly honest story.
He was listening to Biden lying.
Biden kept saying, I never talk to my sons, my son about his foreign business.
And the guy has all kinds of pictures and text messages between the son and the father about his foreign business.
He's got an admission from the son that 50% of the money the son makes goes to the father for 30 years.
And he's sitting there thinking, I'm not an FBI agent.
If they have this, why isn't this coming out?
He had a perfect explanation for the situation in Ukraine.
That's not coming out.
So when we got it, I had a heck of a time getting anybody to go with it.
Even the New York Post took 10 days to verify it.
They did a great job verifying it.
And once it came out, I thought, oh my goodness, it's going to be all over.
I've never seen that happen in America before.
Boom!
And of course, they had big tech to help them.
And you know what else, Rudy?
Honest to God, where the hell were the Republicans?
Other than going on TV and whining about it.
Other than a handful of them.
You know, the Republicans in the Senate did leadership.
I'm not talking about Ron Johnson and so forth, but the leadership No interest whatsoever.
It is shocking to me.
And as we always say, can you imagine if one of Donald Trump's kids were involved in this and they had all those emails and information on Donald Trump?
They had nothing on Donald Trump when they tried to chase him down.
That's why I represent him.
I know he was an innocent man.
And he is an innocent man.
And the amount of information on this Biden family is unbelievable, which is exactly why They didn't want to hear about it or hear from you.
And it's also, in my view, exactly why you're under attack.
Absolutely.
No question about it.
Well, just one last question, because I've got to run, but about could you possibly screw up what's going on right now in Afghanistan more?
How is it possible?
You worked in Washington.
I worked in Washington.
You have a sense of how the White House works.
How could the president not be in the Situation Room 24 hours a day?
I mean, that alone creates more coordination.
The whole purpose of building that room is so you don't have this chaotic response that we're having right now.
But the people who are worried about their lives, and I could probably die if they don't get out of there, they have nobody to coordinate with.
Makes you long for Donald Trump's tweets, doesn't it?
And not only that, he would not have put up with this crap.
have been put together.
I mean, this is, I don't even know.
Is this just total incompetence?
Or is there a purpose to this too?
Makes you long for Donald Trump's tweets, doesn't it?
Yes, I mean, he was a fabulous manager compared to this.
And not only that, he would not have put up with this crap.
He didn't put up with ISIS.
Even when he pulled out of Syria, he left some forces there.
And even then, when they were gazing their own people, he hammered them.
I don't think they would have done this to him either.
There's a certain feeling about Biden now, and now after this, it's going to get worse.
We can push this guy all around the world.
I mean, if we push him around, he'll go sit at Camp David.
He won't come out for five days.
You know, Kennedy came out.
Three hours after the Bay of Pigs.
Reagan came out one hour after the Marine barracks was bombed.
Even Carter came out six hours after the whole mission to get the Iranians was aborted.
This guy took four days!
And then he goes back.
Yes, that was the most ridiculous thing I ever saw.
Four days, he walks off and it looked like a scene from Peter Sellers and being there, walking on the water.
Let me just say this for a few seconds.
What's happened in Afghanistan is a disaster.
It's not only a human disaster, because these are barbarians.
They are absolute loathsome barbarians.
Uh, if Joe Biden had just viewed them as Republicans, he may have actually done something about it.
But that said, General, a commander, Richard Kemp, who commanded the British forces in Afghanistan for some time, he said to me, Pakistan.
I said, what do you mean?
Pakistan falls, they have nukes.
He said, and Pakistan is weak.
And they have infiltrated parts of Pakistan.
And you better believe that this is a huge problem for the United States of America.
China's moving in, not to attack, to align itself with the Taliban.
Al Qaeda's there.
The whole freak show is showing up.
And I said, and he said, you're right.
I don't ever remember Nation-state enemies aligning with terrorist groups.
We now have a situation where nation-states are aligning with terrorist organizations.
This is everything that's been done since 9-11 was thrown away in 72 hours.
You can't imagine how it makes not only me but my colleagues, because we're still very close to each other, we were all talking to each other the other night, On September 11, 2001, the Taliban ruled and dictated in Afghanistan, and that was the spawning ground for the attack.
So we're going to remember the anniversary of it by putting the Taliban back in charge.
It's pure insanity, and it's dangerous, because don't underestimate their patience and their sense of symbolism.
Remember Benghazi took place on September 11.
They work in very symbolic ways.
They're putting this back together again, and I have no doubt they're going to pull off some kind of an attack.
It may not be the same attack.
It may not be on New York.
Probably going to be on America or American interests.
But they want to be able to show that they can do it again.
Look, we had a 18-year war with them.
They wrote it out like they wrote out the Russians.
And they're back in power, and Biden puts them there.
Well, we've got to continue the conversation.
I listen to you on the radio.
You're terrific.
But you know what I really enjoy the most?
I like, I like the Saturday Sunday show because it's the old fashioned interview show where you really get into details as opposed to the person's on for five minutes and they can say a few sound bites.
That's a very, very, that's a very, that's a very, very good show.
A very substantive show and very valuable.
Thank you, Rudy.
And, uh, and it's, uh, my wife and I are really thrilled to be friends and associates with you.
Same here.
And to be on the same side of the battle for liberty.
So God bless you, Michael.
You can get them both ways, you see.
This is the book, and this is the Kindle.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
God bless.
Take care.
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