The Owen Shroyer Report's "DEBATE NIGHT" episode centers around the U.S.'s Middle East involvement, particularly regarding Iran and Israel. A lively debate ensues between Andrew Meyer, Owen Shroyer, and Zach Bonfilio, exploring the benefits of the U.S.-Israel alliance, the radical Islam threat, and potential consequences of U.S. intervention in Iran. Later, Shroyer and Bonfilio delve deeper into America's role, with Bonfilio advocating for supporting Israel to prevent Iran's nuclear ambitions, while Shroyer argues for prioritizing U.S. interests over regime change in Iran. Both agree that the MAGA coalition's support could fracture if the U.S. engages in another war, discussing issues like mass deportations, election fraud investigations, and economic concerns. The conversation also touches on Alex Jones' 9/11 predictions and the validity of related conspiracy theories. [Automatically generated summary]
I always accept debates for anybody that challenges me as long as they're, you know, I have a rule.
If you're a real person, if you're not an anonymous accountant, you have a decent following, I will accept any debate.
So that's why I'm here.
And as far as what the debate topic is, I guess it's really the issue that he was referring to.
We're, you know, talking about how if you want peace, then it doesn't mean you hate Jews.
Now, I don't know Owen that well.
I haven't watched this content.
I don't know if he hates Jews.
I don't think automatically that people who question Israel or question Iran hate Jews.
I know he works at Infowars.
I know there are people that are, you know, towing the line.
I know they have people on there like Nick Fuentes, who I would say clearly has a bias towards Jews.
But I think that a lot of people use their just asking questions as a shield for their bias towards the Jewish people.
Again, not necessarily saying that is Owen, but based off of his response to Laura Lumer, it's the same talking points that I hear.
So that's why I gave him that rebuttal.
So I'm going to go through a few things in this debate.
You know, I just wrote down some notes.
Like, for instance, the threats to the U.S. from Iran, which there's plenty of.
Khomeini, Khomeini, whatever the fuck you want to call him.
I hope they took him up.
There was rumors of that.
His tweets, calling America, you know, the great Satan.
I'm assuming Owen is probably going to jump in here with the talking point of Iraq versus Iran, where it's like, oh, it's just like Iraq with the weapons of mass destruction, even though it's not.
And we're going to try to really drill down on why I think that America being in a partnership with Israel, taking on radical Islamic terrorism and Iran, the number one state sponsor of terror, is a good thing.
Doesn't necessarily mean I think we should have boots on the ground, but I think that we need to do it because we need to send a message to the world that the old ways of appeasing terrorists, leaving money on tarmacs and making deals are over.
These people are fucking trying to infiltrate and take over every nation that they come into.
And they do, I don't care what anybody says, want to see every man, woman, and child in America either converted to Sharia law or fucking killed.
Well, I'll take a brief moment here, and then I can really just respond to some of the things that he laid out.
I think generally speaking, our relationship with Israel has cost us foreign policy-wise.
I think that it's more than fair for Americans to be critical of Israel, considering that we subsidize its entire existence.
We subsidize its health care, its education, and its military with our tax dollars.
And then on top of that, we provide additional military support as well.
And if you look at our foreign policy for the last 30 years, you could even argue 40.
It's been a disaster in the Middle East.
And I think that that's mostly because of the influence of Israel over our foreign policy.
Now, you could argue if this is just good intentions, the road to good intentions leading to hell, or you could argue that maybe Israel has something else going on with things like the Jeffrey Epstein client list blackmailing our politicians.
And of course, the influence of APAC over our Congress as well, which makes you wonder, if we do go to war with Iran, will Congress even vote for it?
Will it matter?
Will they say anything?
Or will their APAC handlers tell them to shut up and let it happen?
So I think it's time to reexamine our foreign policy.
I think it's time for America to re-examine Israel's influence on our foreign policy.
And I would say this is not opinion.
This is just a matter of fact.
And I don't know if anybody would disagree, but if you really care about Israel, or maybe more importantly, if you care about the people of Israel, then you have to realize that its current actions are putting them in a less safe position.
And if you realize that America and its support of Israel is a necessity for Israel's existence, you must realize that in the current trend, in 10 to 20 years, there won't be any support of Israel.
The boomers and the older generations that were propagandized into supporting Israel all this time, not to be morbid, but it's true, they'll be dead.
And the younger generations who now, you could argue, are probably anti-Semitic, some of them, they won't want any support of Israel.
So if you care about Israel, Netanyahu is the regime change that you need.
And if you care about Israel, then you better realize if you don't change tactics soon, 10 to 20 years, there will be no support from the United States of America.
And I'd hate to see what happens to Israel after that.
So one rebuttal on Owen's opening would be his statement that the U.S., I'm sorry, that Israel controls America.
I think he said through APAC.
This is a talking point that I hear all the time.
APAC, they're somewhere around number 20th in lobbying or 20th in donations, 199th to 200th in lobbying.
We have so many other PACs from so many other countries.
And I never hear the actual logical argument on how they control Congress, right?
It's just a theory.
It's a conspiracy theory.
But now, I will also say, I say this every time I make this point.
I think all PACs should be illegal.
So I do think that Israel does have influence, but so does the National Association of Realtors, the pharmaceutical industry, the healthcare industry, all these places, right?
And there's dozens of them, almost a dozen, two dozen before you get to Israel.
We have AAPAC, right?
The American Arab Political Action Committee.
Nobody bitches about them.
You have Qatar that comes through our college institutions, donates hundreds of billions of dollars over the past 20 years.
Nobody talks about how that is influencing the youth of America to create these free Palestine protests.
You'd have the influence of George Soros-funded organizations and NGOs that are literally destroying our country.
It's shit that we can see with our eyes, right?
You can actually see these things on the streets.
But you don't hear people, I don't know, I don't know if Owen's covered this, but you don't hear people like Owen outraged about the influence Qatar has over our country and how it's destroying our nation.
You only hear about AIPAC.
And APAC is a political action committee, right?
A political action committee run by Americans.
It's American Israelis.
And yeah, they're going to have their interests in Israel, just like the Italian PAC has their interests in Italy.
I just love, I love how Owens' debate tactic is a false equivalency off the rip.
So in Seattle, if you have some liberal that chants death to America, it's the same thing as these literal radical Islamic terrorist organizations that are continually showing a pattern of behavior of animus towards this country.
I mean, you just had a completely different radical terrorist group, but you had somebody in New Orleans that was rad or sorry, in Texas that was radicalized drive through New Orleans in January through a crowd of people with a fucking ISIS flag on the back of his car.
I don't understand why you people don't take their words seriously.
Like, where did their words hurt you?
Their words hurt you when they create action.
The fucking Jewish, the two Jewish, the Israeli ambassadors at the Jewish museum that were just shot a couple of weeks ago when some dickhead was screaming free Palestine, those words turned into actions.
And that's when they hurt us on American soil.
I have never seen somebody that's saying that they're supportive of Israel, shooting up people in America or blowing up people in America or doing anything that hates America because they don't chant death to America.
The reason why radical Islam hates us is because of our support for Israel.
Israel gets away with everything in the Middle East, any regime change they want, any death spree murder count that they want, and they get away with it all because here comes Big Brother America to back them up.
That's why they hate us.
That's why they call us Big Satan.
If we want to attack Israel and all of their wars and all of their death, then they wouldn't hate us.
Well, to get to the problem with Iran, you have to get to the, like you just said, get to the root cause, which is now you care about radical Islam, right?
Radical Islam, the people who chant death to America, the people that call us a great Satan, they hate Israel because they're Jews.
And yeah, you're right.
They hate us because we support Israel.
And they want, there has been, this is a 3,000-year-old holy war.
Every single attack in that region that has happened since, I don't know, like 1948 has been started by the Arabs, not the Israelis, right?
Since the Arab, since the Arab-Israeli war, every single attack has been started by the Arabs.
So if they're starting wars constantly and they're saying that they're showing you a pattern of behavior that they want war, they want to settle their differences with death and destruction, and then they chant death to America.
That's why I said I don't care why they hate us because I know that they hate us and I know how they solve problems with people they hate, you know, and letting them enrich uranium to the point where they might have a nuclear weapon.
A lot of people have this ignorant logical fallacy that they're not going to be able to fire a rocket from across the ocean at us.
They don't need to.
They can make a bomb, either put it with one of their cells that are already here or bring it over the border and they can blow it up in one of our cities.
So no, I don't want Iran to have a fucking nuclear weapon.
I will because it's a completely different situation.
You have George Bush, the corrupt cunt who wanted to do a crazy, like, I guess, service to his homage, to his father by lying and going in there and talking about weapons of mass destruction that weren't there and putting us into that region for 20 years, thousands dead.
It was probably a bunch of different parties that have interests in it.
And it did exactly what it was intended to do with you, to get you to support regime change in the Middle East, to get you to support never-ending wars in the Middle East.
And you sit here and you admit it was all a bad idea.
And yet you're ready and willing to jump into another one as if you're denying your own ideology and your own belief system.
Yes, but I believe the official, the official narrative is the CIA was involved in a bunch of shady shit, including regime changes and getting and nettling.
If you can't accept that reality with your own eyes, then you have propaganda brain and anything else you say should be completely discounted because you cannot think for yourself.
If I could cut in real quick, Alan was raising his hand.
I think he has a pertinent question.
Alan, go ahead.
unidentified
Oh, sorry, I muted myself.
I'm going to be 54 soon, and I watched it.
So I can, I just for the sake of argument, I have never, ever, ever seen anybody, but you can't deny that it's, you can't deny that it's a controlled implosion.
I mean, none of them.
Okay.
So they fall, they fall right in on their footprint, man.
But, you know, like I said, it totally makes sense.
Well, it makes a lot.
Well, it makes a lot more sense than putting controlled demolitions into a building that has hundreds of thousands of people in it without anybody knowing.
I don't know, but that's much more believable that it was already there and just waiting to be exploded, just explosives, just thousands of explosives in the trade center every day when pedestrians are walking around.
But hold on a second.
We're getting a little off track here.
I'd like to get back to the subject at hand.
Okay.
And I think that we need to focus on the issue, which is the relation between the United States of America and Israel.
That's the debate.
Again, if Israel wants to attack Iran and take out what they claim is their nuclear capability, which I think is a lie, they've been telling us since 1985 that Iran was moments away from a nuke and it's never happened.
I think Israel is blowing up the evidence right now because they know it's not, they know they know it's not true.
And Israel, which you could argue, has the best intelligence network in the world.
So good that they can penetrate Hamas and give them pagers to blow them up.
So good that they can penetrate Iran, build a drone base and do targeted strikes on military leaders.
But they can't give us any evidence, not a single scintilla of evidence of any proof of nukes, even though they've been telling us since 1985.
I don't believe that for one single second.
It is the same thing as Iraq.
They just switched it to Iran.
They switched weapons of mass destruction to nukes.
They switched Saddam to Khomeini.
It's the exact same playbook.
And because people like you still fall for it, they're going to do it again.
If somebody has all of the materials in their house to build a bomb in their house, right?
And let's say they just, let's say they just start saying a bunch of shit like, you know what?
I want to blow up that.
I want to blow up, I don't know, my neighbor's house, right?
Like they're tweeting about it.
They're calling their neighbor the great Satan.
And they got all the materials that they can to build a bomb in their house.
The neighbor might be inclined to go call the cops and be like, I don't think they should have the materials to build that bomb because they seem a little crazy.
And I'm afraid they're going to blow up my fucking house.
It's not like they want nuclear power for their country.
Now, you may not believe that, but again, if you believe they're enriching uranium, if you believe they're enriching uranium at least 30 to 60%, then there would be nuclear fallout when they bombed the enrichment facilities.
I don't want a single American soldier's boot to touch the ground in Iran.
All right.
I don't want their, I don't want them to touch ground in Israel either.
And they don't need us to, right?
Now, let's start off, if I can, real quick with the benefits of our relationship with Israel up until this point, right?
First of all, you have all these people that say, oh, the $350 billion in foreign aid.
It's like, okay, the in direct spending, over an 11-year period, there was a net positive for America based that offset our foreign aid to Israel of about a billion dollars a year, right?
Not a lot, but that's enough.
And then we have the strategic intelligence sharing operations.
We have all this other, all this other stuff that we can go into, but let's just go from a selfish monetary capitalist fucking viewpoint.
We make money off of our relationship with Israel because we sell them weapons.
I'm saying that if Iran fires all of their artillery at a country, a country the size of New Jersey and can only take out 11 people, what are we worried about?
They're constantly having to move to shelters and air raid sirens going off because they are constantly being attacked by, I'm going to say by proxy, Iran, right?
But I mean, we just go with the ones on the headlines.
You just had the guy that was like holding two Maltoff cocktails and fucking throwing them at Jews in an illegal alien who came in here because of a bad open border policy.
And what was his ideology?
His ideology was radical Islamic terrorism, right?
We had bad open border policy that brought radical Islamic in here.
There's probably terror cells in here.
And because of the wars in the Middle East, radical jihadists that hate us because we blew up their homes and relocated them that were never compatible with the West, now live in Europe and now live in the United States of America.
If their homes won't blown up, they wouldn't be here.
It sounds really great on paper, but when you, when you cut, when you just let your enemies just go run around and do their own thing, and you go, I'm out of it, they start conspiring against you.
They grow and they oh, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, then they come over here.
It's like I said, you're just you're just saying words that are like, oh, yeah, in this utopian scenario, which doesn't actually work pragmatically in reality, you're saying, okay, get everybody out of there, right?
By the way, that would also kill our trade, our resources, and all the relationships that we've built over the past, I don't know, 50 years.
But let's just, let's just, yeah, let's just get out of there.
Let's just cut that off.
unidentified
And then we hang on, hang on, hang on.
Because I'm old and I just want to check on something.
You said if we would get all the people out of here, it would kill our economy.
It wouldn't kill our economy, but I'm saying we have trade relations with a bunch of nations over there.
And we, like, like you said, we have a, we have military bases over there.
We have a lot of structure that we've got.
unidentified
I'm just going to point this out because, and here's the thing, because I'm different, but I'm just going to point this out.
I'm America only, meaning like if they don't, if it doesn't actually directly serve us, benefit us in some way, I couldn't give a fuck less about it.
Yeah, but I will say this: that like we don't need anybody, we're the largest economy in the world.
It's a privilege to do to do business with us, right?
Yeah, like it's it, if, if we close our, if we just became complete isolationists, we could in about a year just walk around the planet and take over the countries that collapsed.
Because if they don't have our trade, many countries would just collapse.
We could we could just cut cut Canada off and wheel our way up back up there in about six months.
Yeah, we are the largest, we are the largest economy in the world with the largest military.
We can we can all agree on that, but that's not our policy, and I'm not, I don't think we're going to get any administration to change it because that's the problem.
No, it's a we can agree there, we can 100% agree there.
Like I said, I don't like PACS, I don't like aid, I don't like giving money to anybody.
I don't think we should.
But if you ask, if you ask me a simple question, I'm going to give you a simple answer: What is the benefit?
The money that we get in trade and direct spending does outweigh the money that we give in aid.
So, that's a net positive for America.
So, our relationship with them, just from a pure monetary standpoint only, is a net positive.
No, what I'm saying is that if you have, if you have a partnership, like if you have a partnership with anybody, just like in regular business, right?
If you're trading product and they're buying product from you or, and you're, let's say, giving them discounts, right?
So, let's call the discounts foreign aid, right?
Like you give somebody a coupon code or something like that, and then the amount of money that they bring in through business, there's a net positive at the end of it.
look at the net gain and we have a net gain based on our relationship with israel in the past uh i think they they did it for 11 years i broke down all these figures well i don't know where you got your fingers the u.s trade deficit with israel is 7.4 billion and that's on top of the aid we send them so we're looking at about a 10 billion deficit with israel so it doesn't sound like a good trading partner actually now now look at direct spending in direct spending how much did we make i think it was 11 million and
sorry 11 billion sorry 11 billion so like i told you at the beginning of this you just you just got the number right it's 10 billion out 11 billion in which is a deficit adds all of this thing that's an aggregate we are at a deficit with israel and that's not even counting the foreign aid so when we count the foreign aid we're at least 10 billion dollars maybe 20 in the hole every year to israel bilateral trade was 50 billion annually in recent years you have um other like i said i'm not gonna i'm not gonna try
to but this is what we're off basic and this has nothing to do with the war in iran i know you asked me nothing to do with you asked me a question what's the benefit of being israel's ally and i just told you and we we can't and i think here's the realization here's the realization that everybody's coming to and maybe you'll get there maybe you won't i don't know the cost benefit of our relationship with israel is clearly a cost the the costs clearly outweigh the benefits it's not even close they make the united states less safe
we don't even do good trade with them they don't even give us their intelligence this whole oh we share intelligence the intelligence is used against us it's not used for us it's used against us and israel stood down intelligence on september 11th just like they stood down intelligence on october 7th so no it is not a benefit it is a cost to the american people and i'm sick and i'm tired of paying it and so is everybody else yeah you're you're making a claim that you don't have any facts to back up i mean you're just saying
words right like there's there's the medical research there's the um innovation and tech there's the innovation yeah we can but but there is a benefit that's damn right we could we can like you said right have this utopia of america only where we literally shut our doors and just go all right now we're gonna get everybody out and you're the one saying that you're the one saying i'm talking about america only i am i would i would gladly be an isolationist i'm not saying it's the best policy but yeah i gladly would be an isolationist i'm talking
specifically with israel this relationship has hurt us greatly it's hurt our foreign policy it's hurt our relationship with many of the countries in the muslim world and it's hurt us on the global stage because now people think we're evil because we're allied with israel that just keeps murdering their way through the middle east yeah they don't murder that's the thing yeah you're right you're right always if they're always being they're literally surrounded on all sides by people who want to kill them and who's fault is that it's not my
fault it's the people who try to kill them that's the thing you keep on trying to blame my problem if you saw my problem okay but look here's here's the deal the the outrage that i see from a lot of people on your side i don't see in in regards to canada right canada i'm not subsidizing canada like i am israel we and nobody hates me because of my money going to canada there's no countries that are like oh my gosh you're supporting canada i hate you i'm gonna blow you up that's only with israel yeah yeah but canada you would you agree that we are literally propping
up canada sure yeah cut them off so like billions and billions of dollars of american taxpayers money goes to making sure that stays a country yeah cut them off but you don't yeah now you're saying in response to me but i should see on your page and others canada canada canada but i see israel israel israel and now you're saying that the reason you haven't noticed it's like the biggest topic right now so yeah i'm talking about it yeah but i'm saying if you if you're honest who's canada hold on a second who is canada trying to get us to go to war
with well i mean I mean, there's a really good argument to be made that Canada's China, China.
I hate when people do the laughy thing without listening to the whole comment.
Look, the fentanyl that's coming into this country is being facilitated through Canada, right?
Canada and China together in their partnership are killing.
tens, if not hundreds of thousands of American citizens.
Israel isn't, right?
They're directly killing our fucking babies, and we don't have any outrage over it.
So who's getting us into a war?
If we get into a war with China, because Donald Trump's finally putting his foot down on this fentanyl crisis, Canada is one of the people that facilitated it.
So are they trying to get us into a war?
No, but are they going to be responsible?
Partially, sure.
Yeah, I would say so.
My brother died of a fentanyl overdose, by the way.
I'm saying, well, I'm asking you, do you think that Israel is responsible for all the conflicts in the Middle East or a lot of the conflicts in the Middle East?
There's been terror attacks in America from Islam for the past, I don't know, fucking 60 years, but that's only because they finally figured out how to get over it.
Well, when you have more technology and more resources to get over across the ocean and do shit, yeah, there's more ways to get over here.
I mean, bro, like you're not understanding what I'm saying.
These people, right?
They hate you.
It's a convert or kill.
It's a convert or kill death cult.
And they will spread and they will go to any fucking nation that is not Islam and not Sharia law and try to make it Islam and try to make it Sharia law.
And your ignorance of thinking that Israel is responsible for that.
Israel, like I said, Israel's, our relationship with Israel is just an allyship based off of a mutually beneficial relationship that we have with Libra.
unidentified
Gentlemen, hang on.
So is the premise that it's no matter what, all Muslims bad?
I think, I think that in America, because we're a Judeo-Christian nation, then you're you should at least conform to or respect our Judeo-Christian value system, right?
Uh, you said that you know, uh, we because we have Judeo-Christian values, uh, you're okay with, I guess, the Somali migrants.
When you see a video from like the mall of America and you see all these um, you know, uh, women in burqas walking around the mall, like it's all uh Muslims walking around the mall, you see that and you think that that's American?
So, Judeo-Christian value system and structure, right, is based off of the Old Testament with the Ten Commandments, which is what is what inspired our constitution.
You can cross-reference it to ignore the Old Testament and our country is retarded.
So, you're familiar with how I use it to point out how ridiculous it is, right?
You have to understand the actual theology behind the Bible, where he was telling these certain people not to eat shrimp, and that covenant with those people does not apply to people under a different covenant.
But we don't need to get into a theological debate today, right?
Owen, in the Zach scenario where the U.S. keeps all troops out of the war, that miraculously Israel does not need any U.S. intervention to accomplish their goals.
Do you see it the same way that you see the war in Iraq, or do you see it the way that Hezbollah versus Israel turned out to be more of a regional conflict?
What we've seen since the first strikes on Iran is that luckily, it looks like the world is going to mostly remain neutral or disassociated.
Thank God.
Because you could easily start drawing battle lines: Pakistan, India, Russia, Ukraine, you know, NATO, everything else.
It looks like for right now, they're kind of staying neutral.
And I think that's because everybody's kind of trying to wait and see what's going on.
Another factor would have to be China, considering China gets a third of its oil exports from Iran.
But I think China probably figures as long as we're getting our oil from Iran, we don't really care who the leader is.
But if they feel like that's threatened, then they could also have a battle line drawn there.
Here's what I think about politically.
So aside from the geopolitics shakeup of it, that is kind of maybe an unknown factor right now, but is still kind of remaining isolated just between Israel and Iran.
Here's to me what will undoubtedly happen with American politics if it goes the way of the Iraq war.
If Trump gets us involved in Iran, and whether it's boots in the ground or air support or whatever it is, the Republicans will lose the House in the midterms and they will lose the presidential election in 2028, just like they did after the Bush years.
And you will usher in a Gavin Newsom Cortez ticket because there will be so many MAGA people that are disenfranchised and pissed off with another foreign war.
They won't vote in the midterms and they won't vote for a Republican in the general election.
So any involvement, any further involvement in this Israel-Iran conflict will blow up the MAGA coalition.
It will blow up the populist leverage that we've gained politically in the last 10 years, and it will deliver power right back to the Democrat Party in two years and then the White House in four years.
And in the scenario where the U.S. stays out of it and it just stays regional, something like Hezbollah versus Israel, where Israel was able to handle it, the U.S. didn't get involved.
Do you look at it the same way?
Or do you look at it like maybe if it stays regional and the U.S. stays out of it, that it doesn't have blowback both onto the U.S. in terms of terrorism and onto the Republican Party and the MAGA coalition politically?
I think there was a chance that you could keep it all toned down and you could isolate it into the specific region, but not anymore.
I think now with the strikes continuing to go back and forth, whatever is going to happen in Tehran in the next 24 hours after the warning was issued by Trump, I don't think you can keep it isolated now.
Now, I have hopes that Trump can keep us out of this conflict, but right now it's a complete disaster.
This is really the worst Trump has looked probably since COVID or January 6th.
And Netanyahu has addressed our nation three times.
Three times we've been addressed by Netanyahu in front of an Israeli flag, not once from President Trump.
So Netanyahu is now controlling the narrative.
It does not look good.
I don't understand.
Well, I think I understand why Trump isn't talking because he knows.
He knows his base doesn't want this.
He knows he's hearing the blowback.
That's why he lashed out at America first.
That's why he lashed out at Tucker Carlson because he knows his base doesn't want it.
But now he might be in too deep.
Maybe he already decided we're going in.
And so it's not a good look.
So I would say it can't be isolated now.
It's going to get worse for Israel.
It's going to get worse for Iran.
And regime change is inevitable somewhere.
It might happen in Israel.
And that would probably be the best for the region.
It might also happen in Iran.
And that would be great for the Iranian people.
Either way, my argument is the same.
The United States of America needs to stay out of it and decouple with the Middle East until they can figure their shit out.
They've been warring and whoring for 3,000 years.
I'm out.
America is out.
It's time to make America great, put America first and leave all this nonsense behind.
Well, it's hard to say what would have happened if Kamala was president.
So I hope you don't get mad.
I'm going to pass at that since it's not a reality.
Thank God.
I think it's going to be hard for Trump to not take some of the blame.
And I think he kind of did it to himself by accepting that he green lit whatever Netanyahu was going to do.
But again, I think that I don't understand why President Trump feels any loyalties to Netanyahu.
He stabbed Trump in the back in 2020.
Trump in the 2016 campaign and really since the 1990s has been calling Benjamin Netanyahu a liar.
This is all on record.
It's all on video.
It's his own words.
So I don't understand what changed in that dynamic that all of a sudden Netanyahu is dictating the terms of the U.S.-Israel relations.
But I would say if Trump wanted to stop it, if he wanted to stop it, I don't think it would be that hard.
I think he would tell Netanyahu, if you strike Iran, all your funding is cut.
And you won't get another, you won't see a single dollar from the United States, and you will no longer get any military support from the United States either.
And I think that would stop Netanyahu.
I think it already did stop him previously, but then Netanyahu said, okay, after the 60 days, I'll strike.
I want to think that Trump wanted to go back to the negotiating table and Netanyahu undermined him with the strikes anyway.
And now the gravity of that is just going to bring us in.
I don't know.
Trump isn't telling us anything.
We're only hearing from Netanyahu.
But I don't think Trump wanted this war, but now it might be too late.
By intercepting these rockets that are going to be firing at Israel, I think what's happening is here, let me just put it this way, right?
Looking at it again, look at it through the lens of Trump, not Bush, and understand that this war isn't going to be the war that you think it is, even if it happens to escalate.
I don't think that we're going to lose the midterms if we take a stand against Iran.
But I do think that if we were to have boots on the ground and dead soldiers coming home in caskets, we would.
So I agree with Owen to a certain extent.
I just think that he's incredibly naive about how this is actually happening and what's actually going to be conducted in resolving this conflict.
Again, you take out the nuclear military facilities, you take out the top leaders, and there are enough people in Iran right now that are just that are tired of the regime that will overthrow it themselves.
All it really needs is a push.
And Israel, who just took out, who just took out all of these leaders, again, I got to give Israel credit.
Like this is a country the size of New Jersey, and they've taken out, I would say, 85% of Iran's top leaders.
And Khamene is nowhere to be heard from.
A lot of people think that he's already dead.
If you were to have this regime change, Owen's argument is they would just replace him with somebody just like him.
Maybe you're right, but that would give us enough time where they would just be like, you know, not trying to start waves and they wouldn't just pick up the mantle and immediately start conflicts, where I think that we would actually see a small period of not necessarily peace, but quiet in the Middle East, which could actually benefit us.
What do you think would happen if Israel just ceased to exist in the Middle East?
Like, what are you like, because I think that you're, I think that what you're, you're, you're coming from a place where Israel seems to be an instigator just by being there.
If let's say, let's just say, like, like Alex Jones asked Nick Fuentes, if you were to remove all the Jews off the earth and put them on the moon, do you think that like all the all the world's problems would go away?
And that idiot Nick Fuentes was like, yeah, a lot of them.
What do you think would happen if Israel just wasn't there in the Middle East?
What do you think would happen with Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Hamas, and all of the Iranian proxy terror organizations that are in that region right now that are fighting Israel, or at least mad at Israel?
What do you think would happen with them and the Middle East in general in that area?
I think it would be the exact same thing that would happen in Iran if there was a regime change.
There would be total chaos.
There would be a vacuum for power.
There would be bloodshed for weeks, if not months, and then there would be a power struggle in the region until so many people have died that there's a decision.
So it would be the exact same thing that I think would happen or did happen in Syria.
It happened in Libya.
It happened in Iraq.
It happened in Afghanistan.
It'll happen in Iran.
And it would happen in Israel, probably the exact same way.
Just like every regime change issue, every single one ends the exact same way.
A follow-up because you actually, you make a very good point there.
But do you think that if we were to back out completely, Israel gets decimated, and then there's a power structure.
And as you said, a bunch of death and destruction.
And I'm assuming it's going to be all over the news.
Do you think that would look good?
Do you think that a lot of people would actually think that that was a good thing that happened?
Where do you think Trump would get a lot of support for, I would say, being responsible for starting that death and destruction because we pulled out and we just didn't do anything?
I'm glad to hear you say that because I'm seeing a lot of people like, I don't know, like Candace Owens, Dave Smith, Tucker Carlson.
I'm seeing a lot of those people quiet on it.
And I see that there's this outrage over innocent people that die in Palestine, and it seems like it's… Well, certainly you understand the difference here.
No, what I'm saying is there's a disproportionate amount of outrage over the Palestinians versus all the other tragedies of the world.
And I've come out, and I got a lot of heat for this, where I said, I don't care about these dead, innocent civilians because, like you just said, it happens all the time, right?
You have hundreds, like not hundreds, thousands, I guess, of little regions in the Middle East that over the past, I don't know, decades have been slaughtered by each other, right?
Like this is the point that I was trying to make to you earlier.
If Israel wasn't there, they'd just be killing each other, and you agreed, thank you.
But these people slaughter each other because it's their ideology, right?
Yeah, well, if you follow the news all the time, but I think the general population, they're going to ride that Democrats pulling that Kamala move with Biden and everything for at least a few years.
What I'm saying is – what I'm trying to say is when the people who kill each other and kill their enemies and kill anybody that gets in their way and convert or kill and run to Europe and start raising the rape statistics and there's rape gangs and stabbing sprees and all this shit.
When they hate us and your solution is get out – like basically run away from the fight, get out, lock yourself in your own home, and just don't go over there anymore, right?
I don't think that you realize they know where you live, and they're going to just come to your home.
So I think that with the people that follow the news 24/7, like me, Owen, and everything like that, we're seeing a lot of divide in the MAGA party based off of the internet.
I don't think there is a divide in the MAGA party as a whole.
I think it's pretty much contained to what I call the woke right and the fucking MAGA right, where it's like there's the griper movement and there's the anti-Israel crowd and they're screaming.
And yeah, it makes it on the news sometimes.
But I think kitchen table issues are still what people, what's at people's forefront.
And I think that Trump, while he is devoting a little bit of time to this war in the Middle East, he's juggling so many plates and he's doing a bang up job.
He really is doing a fantastic job with shutting down the border.
That's what's at people's forefront, right?
If you know somebody who died of fentanyl and you see Trump shut down the border, get tough on China, get tough on Canada, and get tough on that, on that crisis, those are the issues that people are going to turn out for.
They're going to be like, I like what I'm seeing and I want to see more of it.
As far as the war in the Middle East, it's something that we're talking about.
It's not something I bring this shit up to my friends who don't follow the news a lot and they're, they don't really know what's going on, right?
They're only seeing the headlines on mainstream media.
unidentified
And on mainstream media, you're going to be real quick, by the way.
China has warned their citizens in Israel to get out.
I think that the, I think that the FBI needs to step it up and do those arrests.
But as far as what people are seeing, right?
Here's what I think people are seeing.
Here's what I think people have seen.
And I think people are tired of.
I think they're tired of free Palestine protests.
I think they're tired of the guy in New Orleans that drove over the crowd.
I think they're tired of the guy with the Maltoff cocktails in Colorado.
And I think that people are smart enough where they actually understand the ideology behind it.
And I think that they put two and two together and they go, you know what?
We have a problem with radical Islam.
So I don't think they see a war with not a war, but a conflict with Iran as necessarily a bad thing, because I think the vast majority of people, I know it's not you, I think the vast majority of people, they look at Israel, they connect Israel with Jews, right?
That's what they do.
They go, Israel, Jews, right?
I think most people do that actually.
And they go, I don't hate Jews, right?
So I don't hate Israel.
But then they see, they see the from the river to the sea.
They see the guy that chanted free Palestine after he shot a couple that was about to be engaged.
And they go, I don't, I don't not, I don't necessarily hate Muslims, but I don't necessarily like this.
So when I, when I, when I think of the majority of people who aren't on the internet 24-7 and how they're going to view this conflict, as long as Trump doesn't turn it into a boots on the ground war again, because I told you, if that happens, you're right.
But if he doesn't turn it into a full boots on the ground war, and it's more of like when he killed Qassam Soleimani and al-Baghdadi, and he kind of had that whole, hey, these people fucked around and I, and they found out, I think people are going to give him the same type of credence that they gave him the first time where they're going to actually support it.
If it played out like that, I would agree with you.
Here's two things.
First of all, the average American doesn't associate those protests with Islam or any country in the Middle East.
They associate that with liberalism, progressivism, and the Democrat Party.
So that's not really, that's not really helping you there.
Here's the problem, which I think because you said this before.
If you have a situation where let's say they do a very coordinated small strike and they remove Iran's power and they do a regime change, and let's say that's best for the world, best for the region, whether it's at Netanyahu's behest or not, let's just say that happens.
Okay.
Well, if there are radical jihadist terror cells already in our country, and you knew that, okay, so then what do you think is going to happen if we remove the Iranian regime?
Do you think there will be radical Islamic terror attacks?
Yeah, but do you think what is going to happen after that?
Well, I think that then we would probably have even more outrage than, and I think boots on the ground and it would be the Bush years all over again.
I don't necessarily think so.
I mean, it really does depend on how big of an attack and what the attack is, right?
If you have a small terror cell that does something like, you know, blows up, I don't know, a small, like 50 people die or something like that, then I think that it might just, they might just call it an isolated incident and they might try to tie it back to, you know, Iran.
And then they would say, hey, we just took out the fucking Iranian leader.
So it's not like we're going to go kill him twice.
So just as a question to both you guys, Iran has oil, right?
That's why this war isn't going to happen.
Yeah, we do, but Israel, like this is almost every war gets fought about resources or religion.
This happens to be both.
That's all.
And a lot of times resources are used to incentivize the religious people to get done through propaganda because all this, a lot of this is propaganda.
Even I would go argue that the protests that you were talking about, that's propaganda.
That's basically propaganda for leftists to our side to try to either incentivize support for one side or the other.
I swear it looks like to me the Democratic Party has really tried to inflate this issue between Gaza and Israel, which is a completely different thing.
My thing is like we keep acting like we keep acting like we should get involved because they don't like us.
I don't know if any of you have traveled the world, but that is not a like unique thing to not like America from just the Middle East.
France hates us.
Spain hates France.
France, they will see you.
France, they will hear you talk and pretend they don't speak English when you've just heard them speak English.
I mean, that's no shit, right?
I don't think it's about all around the world.
We are fairly hated by people in Beirut, in Lebanon, everywhere.
So if we're worried about terrorists from Iran, we should just wipe out everybody, right?
So do we just wipe out everybody in the world that says death to America?
Do we just go around from country to country in the Middle East and wipe them all out?
I mean, do we visit some islands in the Mediterranean too where they chant us?
Like, that's my thing, man.
Like, I don't want to like, it's favoritism with American lives, right?
Because us being involved in any war where somebody did not directly poke us in the fucking eye, attack one of our ships, attack the homeland, hold American hostages.
If anybody does any of those things, we should make their fucking entire country a parking lot.
But until then, we should sit our fucking happy asses at home and tell the rest of the fucking world to pay their goddamn tariffs so we can stop paying taxes.
If somebody hired, if somebody like the Al-Qaeda, the fucking Osama bin Laden.
You said earlier on the show that the CIA was what I said, what I said was there's there's evidence that there was like there was like regime changes and involvement and the CIA and fucking did this and did that.
Your entire argument is falling apart because your foundation is built on sand.
Yes, it is.
This is where your foundation falls apart.
You can't decide whether you believe in 9-11 or not because you know it's obviously bull crap, but yet your entire argument foundation is based off of it.
I'm saying there are plenty of countries around the world and plenty of Muslims around the world that Israelis hate and that they would glad to see killed.
You yourself said you don't care how many dead children are in Palestine.
So you don't think the Islamic world sees that and says, oh, maybe Israel shouldn't have a nuke?
Michael Springman worked for the U.S. government to do my little Alex Jones voice.
It's many, many, many sources have shown that the U.S. government was involved in 9-11.
And the missing pages of the 9-11 report that only got released after Trump took office the first time, it showed that the Saudi government knew what was going on, too.
So you have the Bush administration, the Saudi government, the Saudis.
I don't know if you know, they've been allies with Israel for decades.
The neocons in Bush's administration, very, very closely they work with Israel.
So the idea that Israel had no idea about 9-11 doesn't really wash with the other players involved and who was behind 9-11.
And then for Owen, just to try and put Zach's argument maybe in a finer point, Patrick Bett David was making the point the other day that, you know, the date you both keep putting on where a lot of these terror attacks coming from, you know, it's not actually the date of the creation of Israel.
It's the time when the new regime took over in Iran from the Shah and that they have been very radical.
That is not my entire worldview against the radical Islamic fucking terrorist ideology.
I've also looked at their behavior over the past fucking 20-something years.
And it's backed up my theory on 9-11.
So that's why I said the 9-11 thing doesn't matter because they're also terrorists doing terrorist shit and they haven't stopped doing terrorist shit since they fucking, since they, I don't know, since 1890.
The isolationist argument, it is a September 10th mentality, which I think that we are very dangerously flirting with, where if you do, if we take your route of just decouple, get out, come back here,
and then we have that big terrorist, hold on, and then we have that big terrorist event, you're going to get that thing that you just, that scenario that you just said, where you're going to have the same terrorist cells that you're afraid of like going off if we take out Iran.
They're also going to go off if we just decouple and leave.
So we're damned if we do, damned if we don't, as far as the, as far as the attacks, because they're going to say, oh, Iran just decoupled from the whole Middle East.
Well, before describing the event, predictions are funny because here's, I can make a prediction right now.
There's going to be a terrorist attack in America on American soil.
I can say that, right?
unidentified
And I can even, but if you, but if you say, but if you prename the terrorist that is going to be taking control, I'm going to wonder what the fuck's in your email, bro.
Something else you should look up after the debate.
You told Owen to look something up.
You should look up what Alan was referencing earlier, the great prediction made by Alex Jones of InfoWars that Owen works with, that Owen is a host for.
He predicted months ahead of 9-11 that there would be an attack on the World Trade Center, that it would be blamed on Osama bin Laden.
That is such a specific attack, such a specific timeframe.
It's not random.
It's incredibly impressive.
And when you look into how he was able to predict that, it's inarguable that the CIA, the Bush.
Well, you asked me if there's any economists that say that we have a net positive relationship from our relationship with Israel's Zv Excene on studies.
Studies on Israel monetary policy indirectly supports the idea of economic stability benefiting the U.S. trade through Israel resilient economy.
Doesn't necessarily qualify it as a net positive relationship, but it leads to it.
Now, you know, so I figured that when I came on, you know, because you guys know each other and you don't know me, that it was going to, it was going to kind of be like a team-up thing.
So I think it would be a good time for closing statements.
I think I'll make my closing statement first.
He can go last.
I will say this.
As I said, if we get involved in another war in Iran, and if it's boots in the ground, absolutely this will be true.
If it's like nuanced of, oh, just our military or just aerial support, whatever, it'll still be the same result.
We'll go back to Bush era politics.
Republicans will lose the House and then they'll lose the presidential election in 2028.
We've already been through this road.
We've already seen the playbook.
I'm not going to play that game again.
The MAGA coalition will be fractured.
And you can debate the merits of going into Iran and you can debate the merits of the relationship we have with Israel.
The result will be the same.
The result will be the exact same.
And here's the issue.
And this is why it's going to be so catastrophic for the Republican Party.
The MAGA base is now a populist movement, which you may not like if you're a conservative, but nonetheless, it has all the political momentum and it has all the political leverage right now.
It took us 10 years to get here and now we are here.
And it's going to be the Republican Party that sabotages the whole thing.
Everybody's talking about Israel and Iran.
Why?
Because it's Israel's issue and we're attached at the hip to Israel.
We should be talking about mass deportations.
We should be talking about investigating who's funding and organizing these riots on our streets.
We should be talking about who stole the 2020 election and how.
We should be talking about who ran Operation Crossfire Hurricane in a coup against President Trump.
We should be talking about who ran the autopen in a treasonous act against this country.
We should be talking about who opened the borders for an invasion of 10 to 20 million people.
And we should be cutting taxes and we should be addressing the trade deficit.
And now here we are again putting Israel's priorities first above America's, and it will destroy the MAGA coalition if we go down this road.
We can still turn it around.
We've had a bad car accident.
We're at the intersection and MAGA has had a bad car accident, but we can still heal this up and turn it around.
But if we get involved in regime change in Iran and if this war expands, MAGA coalition shattered, Republicans lose the House, Democrats win in 2028.
Okay, I think that Owen's given a lot more credit to this base that he thinks is the base than it actually is, right?
The America first movement, an anti-Israel movement.
It's incredibly small, right?
Trump is MAGA, right?
And the base is 77 million people that voted for him.
Then the vast majority of these people don't follow politics as closely as we do.
And while there may be a split on the X platforms where there's like all these people that are like, we got to get rid of Israel.
We got to decouple from Israel, blah, blah, blah.
The vast majority of people, they don't care about it.
They just see it on the news.
And it's not as big of a threat as he would think it is, as far as just the support goes.
Now, I do agree with him.
If there is a boots on the ground incursion into any country, wars are always bad for presidents.
Wars will definitely lose the midterms.
He's going to be president for four years regardless.
So I hope that there is not boots on the ground.
As I stated earlier, when I'm responding to somebody who says you want to go to war, and I go, yeah, I might be trolling them.
I don't want a full-out war.
I don't even want a war at all.
I don't want any type of real war with Iran.
But I do want America to make it very clear, even if that means through support, force, or supplies, that Iran is not having a nuclear weapon, period.
Point blank, no more fucking discussion.
And I don't think that we need to decouple from the Middle East or get out of there to do that because we've already set up all these, all these structures over there and all of this, you know, these trades and these relationships.
You can't just pull the fucking pin.
I think that would be worse.
And I think that that would actually destroy Trump's legacy a lot worse than maybe a conflict that lasts for a couple of months.
And we hope it does.
As far as the conspiracies and all the people want to know about the 2020 election and shit like that, I do.
I'm right there with you.
I want to know about the Epstein files, the 9-11, the blah, blah, blah.
I want to know all of it.
But most people, the vast majority of real people that really just kitchen table people, they've moved on.
They don't give a fuck about conspiracy theories.
They really don't.
And that's, I think, where a lot of these people are confused.
They think that they're, they think that their obsession, I would call it an obsession with some, this obsession with Israel is what most people are thinking about.
What people are thinking about, as we did talk about, as Owen agrees with me on, people are thinking about the border.
They're thinking about fentanyl.
They're thinking about taxes.
They're thinking about how they can put food on their table.
They're thinking about jobs.
They're thinking about their kids' college.
And I think that a lot of people do see a lot of the conflict that's going on here and a lot of the divide that's happened over the Israel-Palestine conflict.
And I would say that the vast majority of people that aren't in that little base that he thinks is, I think they're on Israel's side.
I think that they, I think that people are smart and they understand that a terrorist organization slaughtered, raped, murdered, and killed 1,200 people.
Israel's doing what any country would do.
If they did it to us, we'd fucking destroy them.
If they did it to if they did it to fucking even somebody that we didn't like that much, if something like that happened to fucking Russia, I think that we would probably say, yeah, Russia has a right to go over there and fuck them up.
But that being said, here's my close.
We are an ally of Israel and you guys got to get on board with that.
And it's not going to end anytime soon.
We've always been an ally and we are an enemy with Iran.
The big, beautiful bill, massive military spending, getting rid of the budget and setting up the biggest surveillance state in the history of America, combined with the giant army recruitment ad that we just saw this weekend for the 250th anniversary.
And the other thing, you know, if there is a path where Israel does their goal and America's not involved, this thin line, this is what Trump is aiming for.
Okay, that's what you're aiming for, Trump, where Israel is allowed to do its business and America's not involved.
If he wants to keep the MAGA coalition together and that's how he wants to frame the Middle East, he has to deliver mass deportations, arrests in the deep state, firings of all the people that were put in by the Biden administration, the Obama administration.
We are not getting everything that we were promised.
If he wants to deliver for the American people and get wins in 2026, he has to deliver everywhere else around to make up for the fact that we were told there's not going to be a big focus on war in this administration.