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Oct. 22, 2025 - Jim Bakker Show
28:15
The Jim Bakker Show with Kenza Haddock Part 2
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Setting Boundaries Against Narcissism 00:15:06
Welcome to the Jim Baker Family Show.
Today, our special guest is Kenza Haddock.
Our co-hosts today are Pastor Ricky Baker and Reverend Mondo de la Vega.
And now here is your host, Pastor Jim Baker.
And we have with us one of the most outstanding guests I've ever had.
Her name is Kenza.
Is that right?
Kenza?
Kinza Haddock, and she is a...
This is her book.
Unmasking narcissism.
You know what I think about narcissism?
Anybody that is upfront has to have a little bit of narcissism in them because to be an actor, a singer, a pastor.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing because you learned to self-control it under the blood of Jesus.
But when you meet a narcissist, oh boy, they hurt you.
And that's the thing.
So that's the difference between someone who is operating out of a spirit of excellence and someone who's going through that sanctification process because that is true.
If we are being real and honest, we all have selfish tendencies.
We all have narcissistic tendencies.
And so we have to literally surrender them under the blood of Jesus.
And I mean, just like it says in Philippians 2.20, do nothing out of selfish ambition, right?
And so we have to say, Lord, I need you to help me with this.
Because if not, and the reason the Lord wants to help us is because we don't want to start using, you know, like, for example, whatever assignments God has given us as something that feeds our identity.
That's when it turns into narcissism.
It's like, I need this, you know, for example, platform.
I need my kids to feed my identity.
I need my husband or, you know, for a man, a wife.
So we have to be very, very careful because the temptation is there.
But narcissistic abuse is really hard to define sometimes for people.
They don't understand what they're going through.
How would you define it clearly for our audience today?
Usually someone who falls, when it's a chosen relationship, what I mean by chosen, I mean like you're not in a relationship with like, it's not your boss where you're just, I mean, you're stuck there or like your parent.
You don't, you know, you don't choose usually.
And so usually when it's a chosen relationship, that person suffers from low self-esteem.
They don't have a healthy level of sense of self.
And because of that, they need someone who they look up to.
And that's usually where the narcissist comes in.
They love Bombom.
And then all of a sudden they're in this relationship that seems okay.
But before they know it, they're questioning their reality.
They truly believe the words that the narcissistic person speaks over them.
And they start believing those words more than they believe God's word.
So when they try to explain it to you, what do they go through?
Usually by the time I see them, they say, quote unquote, I think I'm losing my mind.
I'm crazy.
I have seen people who just don't want to get out of bed because they're experiencing so much depression because that narcissistic person has just, I mean, they destroyed their level of sense of self.
And so they experience so much depression.
They experience panic attacks because they don't know how to process their emotions.
They weren't taught.
And that's something we don't teach at school.
And I'm not talking about being led by our feelings.
But if a person just doesn't know how to process their emotions, just talk through them with a safe person, then they're going to bottle it all up.
And at some point, you know, our brain needs to release it.
And it releases it through panic attacks.
That's why people say, like, why did I just have this panic attack on a random Tuesday?
That's why.
Wow.
Are there different types of narcissism and how do they dynamically affect other people?
This is that people don't understand that narcissism doesn't just affect the narcissist.
It affects the people around them.
And that's a really good question to like to understand just because just like God made all of us differently, there are two main types, other subtypes, two main types of narcissistic people.
And those main types, they represent our personalities, right?
For someone who's more of an extrovert, someone who is more outgoing, it's going to come out through flaunting, through, like they will be very controlling.
They truly are like just communicating that they are God in their mind.
They may not say that.
I mean, think of Pharaoh, right?
When Moses approached Pharaoh and he said, hey, God said, let my people go.
Pharaoh said, who is God that I should obey him?
I mean, straight up, because they truly believe they are God in their heart.
Now, that one is more, It's easier to diagnose as a counselor.
The hard one is the undercover.
I refer to him as the undercover narcissist or her.
And a good example of that is Delilah in the Bible with Samson, right?
She manipulated him into revealing the source of his strength.
And so that's what the undercover does.
They use more self-pity.
They're more quiet.
They don't flaunt.
They use manipulation versus control.
But really, the manipulation is to control.
I love how you bring the Bible into this.
Because now you can see the different characters in the Bible for what they are.
How they manipulate it, how they undercover.
And listen, if you live with someone like that, if you have friends like that, I think key number one is identify it.
And I love how you're using the Bible.
And talking about the Bible, listen, we are in a generation that is filled with narcissism more than ever before, maybe more exposed to it.
But if you go back to 2 Timothy chapter 3, I'm going to ask you right now, Manda.
You know a lot about, I mean, you're married into the very famous family, and there's a lot of manipulation in the Hollywood world.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
This is what is scary to me: people put narcissism on other people.
They berate them.
They put them down.
Is that what you're talking about?
Absolutely.
Because in order to be able to, listen, I love the characteristics of when someone notices that a narcissist can make you money, what happens is they feed that eagle.
And then you wonder why people like Lindsay Lohan get out of control because they weren't born, but they made her that way.
The attention.
But listen, 2 Timothy chapter 3 tells us what narcissism is.
Can I read it to you real quick?
Go to the Bible.
I love the scripture.
And you love the scripture.
I love how you bring the scripture into this.
But it says, know this: in the last days, perilous times will come.
Men will be lovers of themselves.
Is that not narcissism?
Yes, it is.
Oh, man.
Lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, truth breakers, slanders, unrestrained fears, despairs.
I mean, this is describing narcissism at its best.
Yes.
And it would be so hard to experience joy when, like, I mean, think about all of the description that you gave.
It's so hard to experience that joy of the Holy Spirit if we're being led by all of those experiences.
It would be very hard.
So, even though the narcissistic person looks happy, or they may flaunt happiness, truly in their heart, they're not happy.
They're suffering from depression too.
When you're in a narcissistic relationship, what is the healthiest way to respond?
That's a good question.
So, a lot of times that narcissistic person has mastered the art of twisting things and also like of winning every battle.
They have to win every battle.
And so, you have to understand that.
Really, don't get into the fight with them.
You have to have what Pastor Ricky mentioned earlier: self-respect.
Really, you have to get to the point where you're respecting yourself and you say, Hey, listen, this conversation is not going anywhere.
And you're not being disrespectful by saying that, whether it's to someone older than you or younger than you, hey, this conversation is not going anywhere.
So, if you continue to talk to me like this, I'm going to have to hang up the phone.
And when they continue, because they will test you, you have to hang up the phone.
What if it's your brother or sister's narcissistic and they're beating you down with words?
Listen, hang up the phone.
I go back to then, then you have to walk away.
And here's the thing: a lot of people say, Well, that's dishonoring to mom or dad or brother, sister, cousin, uncle.
It's not because go back because they're like, Well, where's the boundaries in the Bible?
God set boundaries at the foundation with Adam.
He told them, You may eat from any tree except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That's a boundary.
That is a boundary.
And so, boundaries are biblical.
Wow.
Oh, my God.
Listen, you're bringing so much clarity to what every family is dealing with right now.
And I want you to know something that there's hope.
I love how you bring hope into this.
And there's boundaries.
You know, that was something that this young man yesterday after Bible study said, How do I forgive my father?
I said, one, create boundaries.
You have to create boundaries because, again, you cannot forgive and not be able to trust.
Trust is very crucial.
But don't ever say, oh, I'm going to forgive them, but I'll never forget.
That's not true forgiveness.
True forgiveness from the heart means you give room for a rebirth of trust, but it doesn't come without boundaries.
You can forgive the person.
Forgiveness also doesn't mean you have to restore the relationship.
So the restoration of relationship happens with changed behavior over time that you see.
So repentance marked by changed behavior.
Because if the person says, oh, I'm going to hurt you, but then forgive me, please.
Okay.
But then over time, you're going to start feeling like a doormat, right?
You're going to feel like, well, you know, does God enjoy me being abused?
No, he, no, no, no, no.
You can forgive them, and forgiveness really helps you, clears you out of that root of bitterness.
You can move forward and ask the Lord, Lord, help me set boundaries.
Because as you develop a healthy self-esteem, you'll set those boundaries and you'll feel okay with it because you understand that you are living in God's will.
You can be honoring to a brother or sister in the faith or a co-worker or a parent or a child and still set those boundaries and say, hey, listen, yes, you know, if they're trying to reconcile the relationship, you want to see just rehabilitation of behavior over a period of time.
You write in your book that people unknowingly enable narcissism.
How do we enable them to be narcissistic?
So someone who is stuck, we talked last time about the four traps of narcissistic abuse.
This is something that if someone, as they read through, if they identify with the trap of over-accommodating, that person is like a magnet to narcissistic abuse, especially.
Because that person's motto of life is, how can I make your life easier?
Whereas the narcissist motto is, how can you make my life easier?
And so they feed each other.
And so the person who's stuck in that trap has to know that, hey, listen, it is okay to set boundaries.
It is okay to practice forgiveness.
And it is okay for people to treat you well.
Some people can be mistreated so much, they believe that's what they deserve.
Yeah, that's a bad thing.
Wow.
What signs indicate that someone is beginning to heal and reclaim their identity?
I mean, you deal with a lot of people.
What's the good signs that they're getting healed?
Usually what I've seen is after forgiveness, sometimes people feel it instantaneously, and sometimes people, it takes them, you know, a couple weeks to a couple months after they practice that forgiveness and forgiving that person, they start literally just unconsciously saying, hey, you know what?
I'm not okay with being treated like this.
I'm going to set those boundaries.
And of course, like it is scary.
If you've never set boundaries, it's kind of scary to actually practice it.
And yeah, we practice it in the office and they go and set boundaries.
And then of course they start feeling like, oh, you know, did I go too far?
They start, it's called inappropriate guilt.
That's what we call it.
They start feeling guilty for actually standing up for themselves.
But that's part of healing.
Now, we can't just heal by practicing all of these steps.
We have to.
What has helped me in my own life is I've literally, and I still have it in my office, I have a list of God's names, right?
And it's Jehovah Shama, Jehovah Jire, Jehovah Names.
You know, all of, I mean, all of his names.
And I dedicated time to studying who God is.
Because we as people, we as human beings, we were born to have that loving relationship with God.
And if we don't know that he's loving, because I grew up not knowing that he's loving, once I started looking to him for that love, then just that grip of narcissistic abuse started loosening off of me.
How do you encourage readers to avoid pitfalls when rebuilding their lives?
And that's a part of it.
You have to, we never outgrow studying God's characteristics and God's word.
We never outgrow it.
We can never be so seasoned that we don't.
So we have to, well, and I'm a big believer, obviously, in counseling.
We need to have God's word on one hand and read about God's characteristics and go back to God.
And you know, even Psalm 62, 8 says, pour out your heart to him.
God is our refuge.
God wants us to pour out our heart to him.
He's not going to strike us down.
That's something that victims of narcissistic abuse struggle with.
They see God as someone who is going, who doesn't care about their quote-unquote first world problems.
Want to Share Something? 00:12:08
He cares about every detail of our lives.
And so we have to overcome that misconception.
And that's a huge part of it.
We have to spend time with the Lord continuously.
I want to ask you a very strange question.
Have you ever thought about having your own television show?
So the Lord has not given me that assignment yet.
Ricky's a TV expert.
But I think this kind of show would be there's so many people in the bondage of narcissism that if you were and your husband were on TV and Ricky can teach you how to do that.
In fact, you could be in our network if you want.
You can work that out.
But anyhow, so people can call in and talk over their problems with you and have your friends, have their friends in their family listen.
And I think it would be one of the greatest programs it ever was.
I think it's one of those, it sounds like a niche, but it's a broader problem than I think people know of today.
Get the book today.
Call the number 1-888-988-1588 or go to the website, jimbakershow.com and visit our affiliate page.
You can still write us today, but it's better for you to call and then we can help you place that order.
Because I want to tell you something.
You're looking for healing.
You're looking for hope.
Don't be stuck.
Don't get stuck.
Don't allow yourself to remain stuck.
The Bible gives us a way out.
The Bible says the truth will set you free.
There's something.
Can I tell you this?
Throughout this whole program, you've done something that Dr. Gary Smalley used to say that is the key to finding freedom.
And that is the word validation.
You have validated someone that has lived under an abusive, narcissistic relationship to the steps that we need to take by creating boundaries.
It is not easy.
It is the hardest thing because the Bible says, the Bible talks about honor.
Honor your mother and father.
Honor this.
But I want to tell you something.
God also honors boundaries.
God loves you so much that he brought Kenza all the way from North Carolina, South Carolina, to deliver a message to validate you, but also to bring you hope because we cannot live without hope today.
I think that social media has exploited this more than ever before.
We love ourselves too much.
And I want to tell you something.
It's a very, dad used to always tell me, always make sure you walk in humility.
Television has a way to feed your ego, but it can be under control when you allow God to humble yourself and walk in humility.
And the moment you wake up, you give him the glory.
God is not going to share the glory with you.
I want to tell you something.
And Ricky and I were talking about this this morning.
Revival only is going to come back when the glory goes back to him.
But when we start glorifying the man or the woman that God uses to bring revival through, God will remove his spirit and say, wait a minute, it's all about you now.
It's supposed to be all about me.
You made it all about yourself.
Now I got to go find someone else that has given me the glory.
What message do you have, Kenza, for that person watching that says, I don't know if I have hope anymore.
But there is hope, isn't it?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, like I was talking about in the last episode, my entire life, I mean, all the trauma that I experienced and everything, I reached a point in my life where I was like, okay, my parents don't love me.
I don't have, I didn't understand God's love.
And so I started experiencing suicidal ideations because when you don't have that hope, so I understand and I'm grateful the Lord allowed me to go through that because I can say, hey, listen, I've been there.
I know that.
But Psalm 30, 11, 12 says, you turned my mourning into joyful dance and you took off my sackcloth and clothed me with a garment of joy that I may sing praises to you and not remain silent, right?
And so God can, he has the power and ability to take you out of that hopeless state.
We have to be willing to say, okay, here I am, Lord.
I surrender my life to you.
Now help me.
And it's going to be some decisions you make are going to be difficult, like setting those boundaries, like forgiving.
Because forgiveness is like, it's like a crisis of our just will.
And because we don't want to, but we have to be willing to submit to God.
A lot of people use the verse, you know, it says, resist the devil and he will flee, right?
In James 4, 7.
But they don't quote the first part, and that is submit to God.
We have to submit to God first.
There's no resistance.
We're not resistant in our own flesh.
We're not, yeah, we can't.
Can't leave God out.
No, no, there is no resistance without submission first.
That's right.
It's the only reason we can flee is because we are submitted to God.
This is such a deep problem in America and in the world.
And I see the need for what you do going into every home because they don't know how to deal with narcissism.
That's why, get the book.
Unmasking narcissism.
Get the book.
For me, honestly, like when you, I don't have, if I could look at your Bible, like when you think about like, if anybody in this world had room to boast, it's Jesus.
And he didn't.
Because look at, I mean, one of my favorite passages, it's in Philippians 2, and it says, if there's any encouragement in Christ, if there is comfort of love or any fellowship of the Spirit, any compassion, mercy, then fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love.
And it goes on, and it literally talks about let each of you not only look to your own interest, but to the interests of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ.
Who, this is talking about Jesus, who being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but he emptied himself, taking upon himself the form of a servant, and he was made in the likeness of man, being formed.
And so it taught, I mean, if anybody, as I'm thinking, like, if anybody has had a reason to boast, it's him.
He was God in the flesh, and he didn't.
He emptied himself, and he literally submitted to God so much so that he died for our sins.
And so we have to remember, you know, whenever you're experiencing a sense of hopelessness, just remember this.
You have a God who loves you so much, he literally sent his son, God in the flesh, to die on your behalf.
And please don't take this lightly.
You don't have to earn salvation.
You don't have to earn your worth.
You don't have to earn your sense of belonging.
You don't even have to earn love because he loved you enough that he gave you that love.
We just have to be willing to receive it.
And we receive it by studying his word.
We receive it by being willing to receive the healing that he has given us because it's both spirit.
See, spiritual has to proceed emotional.
It's not the other way around.
A lot of times we want to switch them.
We want to say, oh, let me feel it emotionally so that I feel it spirit.
No, spiritual has to proceed emotional health.
Wow.
It's time to live close to Jesus.
He's coming very, very soon.
The Bible says, What shall be the sign of thy coming in the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ and shall deceive me.
And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars.
There's where we are right now.
See that you be not troubled, for all these things must come to pass.
But the end is not yet, for nations shall rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in many places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you.
And that's what they're doing.
And ye shall be hated for all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.
And iniquity shall abound.
The love of many will wax cold.
I would like to read the whole thing.
Read Matthew 24.
Jesus is coming, and that is a sign of the end time.
All the things that there are in this one verse, Matthew 24.
And then when you're through reading that, read all of Revelation all the way one through what's the last chapter, 22.
And I want you to read all of Revelation because we are living in that day right now.
We are living in Revelation days, and these events are taking place.
Jesus is coming soon.
Be ready.
Make sure your heart's right with God.
Make sure Jesus is living alive in your heart.
For God loves you.
Don't let anybody tell you he doesn't love you.
Jesus Christ died on the cross for you has come into your heart, asking him to forgive you of all your sins and ask him to heal your friends and neighbors and your children and all.
And especially on this subject of unmasking narcissism, it's something that many of you have needed today.
Order that book or take your times to support this ministry because it needs to stay on the air.
We've got to television was born for this hour, not for the hour we started 50 years ago or more.
It's time now because Jesus is about to come back.
All hell is about to break loose on earth.
But Jesus loves you.
Give your heart totally over to him and hold on to him.
Find a good Bible-believing church and go there and worship God.
Amen.
God really loves you.
Isn't that right, Ricky?
That's right.
He loves you so much that he sent his one and only son, his begotten son, to live a perfect life, fulfill every law, and endure the pain of crucifixion for the joy set before him.
Friends, if you have any ideas of, you know, you want, or you have an idea of what the joy set before him is, go find a mirror, look in the mirror, lock eyes with yourself and say, I am the joy set before Christ.
I was the reason you went to the cross, friends.
He wants to have a relationship with you.
If you need help praying the salvation prayer, call our number.
It's 1-888-988-1588.
We'll put it up on the screen for you.
You can call us.
Like Pastor Jim said, we'll help you find a good Bible-believing church in your area.
We'll pray that salvation prayer with you.
And I want to say, welcome to the family of Jesus Christ.
The best decision someone will ever make.
Amen.
God bless you.
God loves all of you.
Remember that.
Don't let anybody ever tell you that God doesn't love you.
They're a liar.
Amen.
God is truth in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Bye-bye.
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