| Time | Text |
|---|---|
|
Why I Took Your Case
00:04:32
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|
| Well, I want to get on, but do you I'd like to this is a kind of a crazy question, but why did you take my case? | |
| Why, you know, you probably didn't know who I was that much, but is it true you read about my case in the New Yorker magazine? | |
| Somebody told me that was, that you said that New Yorkers said I wasn't getting a fair trial, and that's how you contacted me. | |
| I read about your case in a lot of media. | |
| I was contacted actually by somebody in your behalf after I indicated that I thought the trial and the sentence was unfair. | |
| Remember, I grew up as a Jewish kid in Brooklyn. | |
| I was first in my class in law school. | |
| I was editor-in-chief of the Yale Law Journal. | |
| I was a Supreme Court law clerk, and yet I got turned down by 32 out of 32 Wall Street firms just because I was Jewish. | |
| And I understand religious discrimination. | |
| And when I read what the judge said in your case, I said to myself, that's the kind of religious discrimination that I suffered. | |
| We're of different religious faiths and backgrounds, but that doesn't matter. | |
| As George Washington wrote to the congregation in Newport, in America, all faiths are equal. | |
| And we do not believe in bigotry. | |
| To bigotry, we will give no sanction, Washington said. | |
| And so when I read the judge's remarks in sentencing you, I said to myself, there but for the grace of God go I. Anybody could be the subject of religious discrimination. | |
| And that's why I decided to take the case. | |
| Wow. | |
| Amazing. | |
| The judge in my case was known as Maximum Bob. | |
| And wasn't it unusual? | |
| You got the judge, actually, you got him thrown off my case. | |
| You not only overturned my case, but you got the judge thrown off the case. | |
| Because I knew that if the judge were resentencing you, he'd express the same bigotry. | |
| You know, he said something like, those of us who have a real religion, as if to negate your own deep faith in God and in religion. | |
| And it was so obvious and extreme that the Fourth Circuit, which is a very conservative court, very rarely reversed criminal convictions of sentences. | |
| But I remember when I argued the case in front of them and I quoted those words from the judge, those of us who have a real religion, I could see the judges sit back and say, oh my God, that's not what a judge, a federal judge, should be saying in regard to a criminal defendant, a man standing before him for sentencing. | |
| That's the most sacred task a judge can have is fairly sentencing someone. | |
| And he didn't fairly sentence you, and that's why we won the case. | |
| Wow. | |
| Amazing. | |
| It was a state of shock when the judge said I was going to prison for 45 years. | |
| And I mentioned it. | |
| I don't mean to be pushing books because this book's not even available in this miscarriage of justice book. | |
| But, you know, that I was given such a long trial, a long, long sentence, and not even, you know, murderers, some of them get off less than 45 years. | |
| And then when I read the book, Miscarriage of Justice about me, This man had interviewed every juror and every member of the jury says, we don't know what he was guilty of, but we know he must be guilty of something because all the government agencies was after him. | |
| And so this sentence that you got reduced was, you had said something that it was a wonderful victory. | |
| not only for Jim Baker, but for religious tolerance. | |
|
Case in Public Opinion
00:00:23
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|
| And is that right? | |
| Do you remember that? | |
| I do. | |
| I remember it very well. | |
| I remember coming down. | |
| There were enormous crowds in front of the courthouse. | |
| Some people supporting you, some people not supporting you. | |
| This was a case that was tried both in court and in the court of public opinion. | |
| And there were split verdicts in the court of public opinion. | |