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Feb. 24, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
35:22
365 Days of Ukraine War

It’s been one year since Russia invaded Ukraine. Charlie walks through the past year, and revisits what he said all the way back at the war’s outset. Then he turns to the future: What happens next, what risks still remain, and why our leaders are still hopelessly hooked on comparisons to World War 2. Most importantly, Charlie asks the question that our leadership is blatantly ignoring— Is helping Ukraine worth it for America?Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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America's Trillion Dollar Ukraine Cost 00:10:04
Hey everybody, we are one year into the Ukraine war.
What is America's national interest?
Why are we involved?
What does success look like?
These are important questions that we are not getting answers to.
Email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Subscribe to our podcast by taking out the podcast app and typing in Charlie Kirk's show.
Get involved with Turning Point USA Today at tpusa.com.
That is tpusa.com.
Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
Turning point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
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It has been one year.
It has been one year since Russia invaded Ukraine.
From the very beginning, we were clear that it is immoral for a larger country, a stronger country, to invade a weaker country.
We were also clear from the very beginning that this is not America's fight.
Remember exactly where I was and what was happening when I heard the news.
I was flying to CPAC in Orlando.
It's a long flight, got very delayed, landed around 2 or 3 in the morning, and my phone was just lighting up.
Russia has done it.
They have gone for it.
They have invaded Ukraine.
And it was the number one news story at CPAC.
Everybody was talking about it at CPAC.
Every single media row booth I went to, every person I talked to, it was all about Russia invading Ukraine.
Charlie, what are your thoughts on Russia invading Ukraine?
And I was saying the same thing over and over again, but little did I realize I was saying something that was actually rather heterodox, contrarian.
I was saying that, look, this is not right, which we've been very clear about.
You shouldn't use your power just because you want more land.
Now, there is an argument that people make, and I think there is some truth to it, but I think it's largely overblown that Russia was provoked into doing this.
With that, all that being put aside, you shouldn't invade a smaller, weaker country, even if you are provoked.
But the provocation is definitely something that should be talked about.
Poking the Russian bear, Lindsey Graham, coming out and saying we're going to play offense against Moscow.
So here was my speech the day after the invasion.
And I was ridiculed.
I was attacked.
I was called a Putin puppet and a Russian agent.
Now, mind you, many conservative commentators who are now saying we shouldn't send money to Ukraine, they were flying the Ukrainian flag.
They were doing the BLM thing only with the Ukraine thing.
They were showing the Ukrainian marker.
And on this program, I can say I am very thankful for our team.
I'm very thankful for you, the audience, because we told the truth.
We told the truth the entire time.
We said, this is not a good idea.
We shouldn't get involved.
This is a quagmire.
What does success look like?
We asked those questions for a year.
We asked the tough questions from Senator Kramer from North Dakota over the summer.
What amount of money, how much is too much money in supplying Ukraine?
There is no limit, he told us on our program.
And here we are a year later.
I could say that we definitely played a small role.
Tucker played a very big role.
This is an unpopular war.
Only 24% of Americans a year later want to see more support for the Ukrainian cause against Russia.
We are a war-weary nation.
It's taken a year, but we saw it for what it was.
We knew the deep state, the defense industrial complex, the military-industrial complex.
This was my speech at CPAC a year ago, and I was, oh, I was mocked.
I was ridiculed.
I was attacked.
There were multiple articles that came out attacking me for the fact I said this.
How dare you?
The Greta Thunberg lookalikes told me in the media, play cut 116.
You see, we are a nation in multiple crises right now.
The U.S. southern border matters a lot more than the Ukrainian border.
Now, I'm not defending the actions of dictators halfway across the world.
What I'm saying, though, is when your own country has fallen apart, I don't want to hear lectures about why we need to send our troops halfway across the world when we are being invaded.
That's a thought crime.
You're not allowed to say that, especially on the precipice of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
That was the day after.
And I remember, oh, the text messages I got.
They said, oh, we're not being invaded and all this.
It turns out I think public opinion has shifted on that.
The Associated Press has a new article.
Ukraine aids support for Ukraine softens in a U.S. poll.
By the way, Janet Yellen, amongst others, have come out and they're saying that we got to send more money to Ukraine.
Janet Yellen, just this week, said that we're going to send another $10 billion in economic assistance to Ukraine.
Not $10 billion to East Palestine.
Not $10 billion to try to help solve the mental health crisis in our country.
Certainly not $10 billion to stop the invasion of our own border.
No, but instead, $10 billion to Ukraine.
Play cut 80.
Economic assistance is making Ukraine's resistance possible by supporting the home front, funding critical public services, and helping keep the government running.
In the coming months, we expect to provide around $10 billion in additional economic support for Ukraine.
They really think you're stupid.
$10 billion here, $10 billion here.
By the way, Republicans are some of the worst offenders here.
We actually do not know the number.
Do you know a year later, we actually do not have a precise number of how much money we have sent to Ukraine?
We do not have a precise number.
We have a range.
It's somewhere between $115 and $200 billion.
How is that possible?
Just pause for a second.
How do we not know the number?
How is it possible that when you are spending literally billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars, you get approximations?
It's somewhere between this.
The CBO, the Congressional Budget Office, says it's $113 billion, but congressional leaders say it's as much as $200 billion.
So it's somewhere in the middle.
You got to have a little flex in the joints.
You got to have a lot of grease, a little bit of grease to be able to get the gears moving.
So it certainly makes you think, doesn't it?
It makes you wonder, why is Washington, D.C. and the regime so focused on this war in Ukraine?
Now, there's plenty of speculation about self-interest and the Democrat Party's ties to Ukraine.
And I do think that's somewhat interesting just from a 35,000-foot view.
Do you notice how Ukraine seems to be center stage, page 1A, of multiple major stories over the last few years?
Let me prove it to you.
Joe Biden, remember saying that I'm going to fire the prosecutor?
He's talking about the Ukrainian prosecutor.
Why did they impeach Donald Trump the first time for a phone call that he made to Zelensky?
A phone call, by the way, that was listened to by his own government.
I never got over that, by the way.
The fact that the national security apparatus is able to listen to phone calls from the commander-in-chief when he's trying to negotiate a diplomatic goal, somehow they're able to record that phone call and leak it and use it.
I never understood why that was acceptable.
But remember the entire impeachment trial with Alexander Vinman, who, by the way, is now soliciting the Ukrainian government as a defense contractor.
There is something about Ukraine that should have factored into our decision.
But obviously, Republicans say we have to fight Putin.
This is the most important proxy war since World War II.
You, their voters, think that this is getting wildly out of control.
This war is becoming less and less popular by the day.
Our predictions a year ago are coming true: that there will be no lid on the money.
We are on pace to spend a trillion dollars.
We are on pace to send a trillion dollars.
In fact, Ukraine is saying the World Bank has come out via Ukraine.
They said we need at least $350 billion to rebuild our country, at least minimum.
So, hey, America, you're going to have to pay for that.
Hey, get trains at work, a plane infrastructure that can get planes up into the sky, southern border that isn't porous economic assistance.
No, no, no, no.
What do you think?
You think you're Ukrainian?
The amount of Americans who believe the United States, I'm Republicans, I'm sorry, that give too much aid to Ukraine has steadily increased since March.
The popularity of the war is upside down.
I do want your thoughts, Freedom, at CharlieKirk.com because you're largely a conservative audience, but your Republican lawmakers are the most enthusiastic supporters, are some of the most enthusiastic supporters for this proxy war in Ukraine.
Rational Questions About World War II 00:07:26
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Jerry from Kentucky emailed us.
He said, Charlie, I've been following you for a couple of years from BLM to COVID to vaccines to Ukraine.
It seems like you're ahead of the curve.
Why is that?
And why do other commentators seem to follow the crowd?
Well, look, it's very simple.
It's because we follow a process.
It's a logical process.
You could call it the Socratic method.
You could just saying we're going to ask rational questions.
We also have an inherent distrust when the media and the government, celebrities, and private interests are all singing in harmony about the same issue at the same time.
And so we just, we've been asking the same questions from the beginning.
What is America's interest here?
Is Zelensky a good person?
Is it somebody worth protecting or supporting?
The same thing we asked the question, by the way, for ivermectin or for hydroxychloroquine or for treatments.
And so here's another very simple question: Has the risk of nuclear war increased or decreased because of our involvement in the proxy war?
Should we care more about our southern border or more about a foreign border?
Is Ukraine in our national interest?
Is Ukraine an ally?
That's an honest question.
Do they treat us like an ally?
I was asking for money.
We never got anything from them.
Is Ukraine corrupt?
Without a doubt.
Is Ukraine a bastion of freedom and liberty?
Not really.
They clamp down on opposition parties.
They restrict freedom increased newspapers.
They shut down churches.
So again, I ask the question without abstractions and without mentioning World War II.
Can you do this without mentioning World War II?
Because not everything is like World War II.
And let me take a second to address this.
The most common talking point that I receive in favor of America's role to support Ukraine against Vladimir Putin is immediately saying, Charlie, you're Neville Chamberlain and Vladimir Putin is Hitler.
Let's put that to the test.
Now, we've been very clear: Putin is not a good person.
In fact, some of you don't like it when I say that.
You've emailed me, freedom at charliekirk.com defending Putin.
I'm not going to do that.
It's not true.
He's not a good person.
He's a gangster.
He's a thug.
He also could be a very helpful thug against the CCP.
He's not a thug we should be fighting.
He's a thug that we should be neutral with and possibly even a soft ally with in the broader global picture.
But you have to know who you're dealing with.
This is not somebody that I would overly trust.
And invading Ukraine is wrong, period.
There is no spin you can offer to me that makes me think otherwise.
But just because that is wrong does not necessitate a couple things.
Is this the same situation as World War II?
Now, Tom Holland is a terrific historian.
He has a new book out called Dominion, where he talks about the Christian inheritance of the West.
He said something recently in an interview that really stood out.
He said, Americans and Westerners reference World War II way too much in their politics.
He said, World War II is obviously really important.
He said, but it creates fragile paradigms and really false premises.
The argument he was making in so many words is that not everything is World War II.
World War I said differently, World War II creates lots of bad understandings of international relations.
One of the main reasons is I think we do not properly appreciate Hitler's luck.
Yes, Hitler was a madman.
He was insane.
He developed new forms of military technology and forms of warfare.
But I think some of that is largely overblown, especially with his invasion of France.
He was just lucky.
It's like rolling the dice six times and you get snake eyes every time.
France had more men, had more tanks, and Hitler was just crazy enough to try to hit it.
And it just so happens he hit snake eyes six times in a row.
Now, why is that important?
Well, it's important because that's actually an important, that's a critical wrinkle as to is Hitler and Putin the same person?
I don't think Putin is necessarily rational in every decision, but he has shown and demonstrated some extraordinary restraint.
And the media loses their mind when I say this.
We bombed their pipeline.
Do you want me to prove to you that Putin is restrained?
Do you want me to prove to you that Putin does not want war against the West?
Joe Biden called Vladimir Putin before he took a train to Kyiv.
If you really thought Vladimir Putin was a madman and you really thought that he was Adolf Hitler, would you take a train to Kyiv and give him a heads up that you were going there?
No, the West in Washington, D.C. know that he is not Hitler, but they use that as a reason to try to justify your support of this proxy war.
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China Wants Peace Not Conflict 00:15:23
Let me just conclude the argument I was making and then I want to dive deeper into the Ukrainian-Russian situation and ask the question, if we were even to win the proxy war, what are you going to do at the country?
Do you really want to be in charge of a place like Ukraine?
Like, that's a very, very simple question.
So, well, be careful for what you want.
It would be called a Pyrrhic victory, which is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it's basically a defeat, similar to Afghanistan or Iraq.
Okay, but we talk about World War II way too much.
And I'm guilty of this.
I talk about Churchill all the time.
I talk about D-Day.
I talk about Pearl Harbor.
And I think there's a lot of reason for this.
I think World War II is legitimately one of the most incredible, one of the most dramatic, multi-continent, multiplayer, good versus evil moments in all of geopolitical and military history.
Really, nothing comes close to it.
World War I was an awful war.
It was messy.
It was dirty.
Lots of casualties, chemical weapons, trench warfare.
World War II was obviously messy, too.
It's not to say that one war was messy and one wasn't the other, but World War II had public dynamic players from Stalin to Mussolini to Hitler to Franklin Delano Roosevelt to Churchill.
I mean, you have almost a central casting there that makes it very interesting, easy to track.
Unlimited amounts of movies have been made about it, books, research papers, people talk about it a lot.
But not everything that happens today can be accurately compared to what happened in World War II.
And this is really important because NATO and the post-World War II order was an outgrowth of what happened in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
One of which, which is very important, is this idea of deterrence and trying to never appease the person that you hate.
Let me be very clear: Hitler was someone you should never, ever get close to appeasement with.
That was the right strategy.
But Putin is not him.
He just isn't.
Yes, he's a bad person.
No, he's not even close, not even in the same realm, not even in the same dimension of the evil that we saw in the attempted rise of the Third Reich in the 1930s.
And it's a sloppy comparison, and they use it to try to get themselves power.
Now they say, well, Charlie, you know, Adolf Hitler wanted to recombine the former Rhineland, the former German, the German lands and German-speaking people.
Doesn't Putin want to do the same thing?
That doesn't make him unique.
Almost every leader that gets into power wants to try to combine lands they think that is theirs.
Okay?
Xi Jiping wants to do it right now in China.
Heck, America, we fought lands over our territories too of things that we thought were ours.
I want to play a piece of tape here of Mersheimer, a professor.
We've played this a couple times on our program, and he accurately predicted six years ago why we should not get involved in Ukraine and Russia.
And again, if you are in support of giving Zelensky money, if you are in support of the war in Ukraine, I want you to send me an email, freedom at charliekirk.com, and tell me why, but you're not allowed to reference World War II.
Give me a moral or historical argument without mentioning World War II.
Play cut 121.
But I actually think that what's going on here is that the West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path.
And the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked.
And I believe that the policy that I'm advocating, which is neutralizing Ukraine and then building it up economically and getting it out of the competition between Russia on one side and NATO on the other side, is the best thing that could happen to the Ukrainians.
What we're doing is encouraging the Ukrainians to play tough with the Russians.
We're encouraging the Ukrainians to think that they will ultimately become part of the West because we will ultimately defeat Putin and we will ultimately get our way.
Time is on our side.
And how much would it cost to rebuild Ukraine?
No, American taxpayers are going to have to shoulder this.
Play cut 120, World Bank predicting the cost to rebuild Ukraine will be $350 billion, minimum.
Play cut $120.
But in the last year, the United States has already provided $32 billion in military aid, $13 billion in economic assistance to keep the bills paid, and nearly $2 billion in humanitarian assistance.
In all, Congress has greenlit $113 billion for Ukraine through September.
$113 billion.
And not a single lawmaker can come on this program and tell me why this is in our immediate national interest.
Why?
And the argument that my friend Dr. Gorka made on this program when we had a dialogue about this, he said, well, it's their 1776 moment.
I don't think that's true, but let's pretend that is true.
Is that still in our immediate national security interest?
And by the way, we're going to be the one left holding the country.
We're going to have to subsidize their rebuilding.
We're going to have to have a Ukrainian infrastructure project.
You break it, you buy it.
You know, it's really funny.
There was this expression that the neocons, and I just call them neoliberals now, used to make all the time.
And they said, well, you know, at Creighton Beryl, if you break it, you buy it.
This was their justification of rebuilding Iraq.
This is the lack, this is the sophistication of thinking in the neoliberal, neoconservative community.
I am not kidding.
You could fact-check me on this.
They actually cited Creighton Beryl.
And one of the most delicious and hilarious public relations responses was Creighton Beryl saying, yeah, that's not our policy.
All of these apparatches from Bill Crystal to the Weekly Standard was like, well, you know, just like they say at Creighton Beryl, if you break it, you buy it.
So you invade Iraq, you got to rebuild it.
And then Creighton Beryl comes back and they're like, yeah, that's actually not our policy.
You guys just made that up.
But we got to be very clear, though.
While Putin was wrong in invading Ukraine, we led him straight to the line.
We led him.
We invited him to the line.
The Minsk agreements were betrayed.
NATO expansionism poked the Russia bear.
Ukrainian neutrality, somehow not being on the table, that pushed it.
And we refused to negotiate at all.
Remember this?
This is Lindsey Graham with Amy Klobuchar and John McCain.
This was 2016.
This was seven years ago.
Seven years ago.
This was not frontline news.
This was December of 2016.
So like six years ago.
Yeah, okay.
Six and a half years ago.
Lindsey Graham and John McCain were in Ukraine.
And if you are Putin and you hear American senators talking like this, how on earth would you respond?
Play cut 122.
Your fight is our fight.
2017 will be the year of offense.
All of us will go back to Washington and we will push the case against Russia.
Enough of a Russian aggression.
It is time for them to pay a heavier price.
Now, let's remember some important context here of Lady Graham saying that.
We're going to push the case against Russia.
What happened just a couple months after that?
Donald Trump had a special counsel appointed against him, alleging that Russia interfered and manipulated the 2016 presidential election.
Is that a coincidence?
I don't know.
I believe firmly to get public opinion against Russia, they had to lie about Russia's involvement in the 2016 presidential campaign to try to get Americans to unnecessarily hate Russia because they didn't like Trump, but they wanted to say if it wasn't for Russia, Trump would not be president.
So then there's Lady Graham saying, we're going to go back to D.C. and build the case against Russia.
And 90 days later, Donald Trump has Robert Mueller looking into Russian interference in the Trump campaign.
That's very strange, isn't it?
And here he is.
I want you to imagine for a second.
You're not allowed to say this because the media gets really upset about it.
Imagine if a KGB agent, or let's just say a Russian equivalent of a senator, went to Mexico City.
Imagine if he went to Mexico City and was around the cartels and he said, your fight is our fight.
We are going to go back to Moscow and we are going to push the case against America.
We're going to give you weapons.
We're going to give you armaments.
We're going to give you support.
How do you think Americans would respond to that?
How do you think our government would respond to an adversary going to a neighboring country and saber-rattling like that?
The Chinese Communist Party, they are evil.
And they have issued, though, a 12-point plan to end the war in Ukraine.
They're calling for peace.
Biden doesn't want peace.
No, no, no, no.
Biden is bought by the security state.
He's being held hostile by the security state, especially with his document issues.
So he just does whatever they want.
And so they deployed Biden to be nothing more than a mirror of the needs, wants, and concerns of the CIA and FBI.
Isn't that interesting?
We haven't heard about Biden's document issue in a couple of weeks.
Isn't that something?
There's a reason for that.
They're going to bury it.
It'll be going to the distance.
Nothing, by the way, on Hunter Biden.
They're using all those things as leverage to get Joe Biden to get us closer to a war, a very, very hot war in Ukraine.
Washington, D.C. military elite would love nothing more than that.
They are just licking their chops.
So there's a 12-point plan that China has issued.
Now, look, you could call it full of lies.
You could say it's disingenuous.
But the fact that China is being more vocal about a peace plan proposal than the United States is a disgrace.
And U.S. taxpayers are footing the bill for this prolonged war.
Now, of course, China does not mention that Russia invaded a sovereign country because that would then jeopardize their soon military incursion of Taiwan, the beautiful isle.
It is literally Taiwan is known as, is actually used to be called by the Portuguese, if I remember correctly, the Isle Isla de Hermosa, if I remember correctly, the beautiful island.
And it is a gorgeous island.
And by the way, you got to be careful, China.
Do you really want Taiwan?
That is not going to be easy.
Invading an island is hard enough, let alone just the geographics, the geography, I'm sorry, the geography of Taiwan.
From what I understand, never being there, thousand-foot cliffs leading up.
I don't know if they, we'll see how sophisticated the Chinese military is.
Maybe more than we realize.
However, China now has this 12-point plan.
And they're basically calling for a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine.
Now, why would China be doing this?
Well, China is close with Russia because we decided to put them as partners, because we are fools.
To be honest, we're just fools.
And Russia probably wants peace.
So Russia wants peace.
China wants peace.
Not America.
We want war.
China says this.
Again, you got to take this with a pound of salt, not just a green assault, because it's the Chinese Communist Party.
They say we should respect the sovereignty of all countries.
Yeah, unless it's Taiwan.
Abandoning the Cold War mentality.
Okay, sure.
Ceasing hostilities, resuming peace talks.
This one, I totally agree with.
Why are there not active peace talks between Zelensky and Putin brokered by America?
Don't have Macron, okay?
Macron is a waste of time.
That guy has zero presence, okay?
And no offense to the wonderful French people, not exactly the best trek record in the last hundred years.
Okay, so France can be put aside.
It should be America front and center trying to negotiate this peace.
No, instead, we're trying to prop up a neoliberal project for reasons that are not in the best interest of our country.
China then says we have to resolve the humanitarian crisis, protect civilians and prisoners of war, right?
Sure.
Keep the nuclear power plant safe, reduce strategic risk, facilitating grain exports, stop unilateral sanctions, keeping industrial and supply chains stable, promoting post-conflict reconstruction.
Okay, I don't think the CCP believes any of this, but the CCP did this for a different reason.
Do you know why they did this?
They did not do this because of Russia.
They did this to humiliate us.
The Chinese Communist Party did this as an open memo, an open letter to the rest of the world to say there is a new leader of the world.
This used to be our role.
Our government isn't doing this.
The failed punk rocker Tony Blinken is too busy apologizing for being racist.
Joe Biden is doing whatever the security state tells him to do.
This used to be our role.
China doesn't mean any.
This is all a bunch of nonsense and gibberish and balderdash.
What they do mean, and what they're clear about is we're in charge.
And I guarantee you, this is plastered all over the countries they control in sub-Saharan Africa.
This is plastered all over the countries they control in South America.
That makes the Chinese Communist Party look like peacemakers, not war makers.
Isn't that something?
Meanwhile, Joe Biden is calling for an increase.
Janet Yellen is calling it for an increase.
No, this is not about peace.
It's not about the CCP wanting the conflict to end.
It's about showing the rest of the world that a page has been turned and that they're in charge and America is no longer.
Statesmanship would be nice, but our government has zero desire to end this war in Ukraine.
CCP Peacemakers Vs Biden 00:00:17
That's a tragedy.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thank you so much for listening and God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.
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