Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell details her research on autistic savants who, despite "expressive aphasia," accurately identify complex math equations across visual barriers and communicate in a shared meditative space called "The Hill." While confirming intelligence agencies' interest in these abilities, she rejects government funding to prevent exploitation as "psychic spies," advocating instead for public education. Powell argues these children possess pure hearts capable of solving global crises like climate change, urging society to protect their potential rather than classify their extraordinary cognitive functions. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, Qwen/Qwen3-ForcedAligner-0.6B, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Brain Activity and Psychic Evidence00:14:47
But I would say that one of the most impressive was this girl named Haley.
She literally did six different sessions, each two hours long.
I took a random number generator and I created random numbers, like five, six digits.
And then I would come up with an operation between them.
I'd either be multiplying them or dividing them.
And then I would ask her to give me all the numbers that are part of the equation.
When you say she would give you all the numbers, this is without seeing the numbers.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
It was 162 numbers, and she got all but seven correct.
And the seven mistakes she made, she got on the second try.
Because we're instantly sending and receiving information through space, does that imply that we might be able to perceive or even affect information through time?
Have you ever seen or heard of any examples of these children sort of interacting with something that, you know, for lack of a better word, is non human?
You know, I've heard accounts that they're, you know, they're.
That are evil ones, you know, and then that there are good ones, you know.
But I was observing some children who were really advanced in math and they were autistic.
And, you know, and I looked over at this one little boy's piece of paper.
And I mean, he had drawn the head of, you know, that looks like a gray.
I was just like, oh, that's kind of an interesting thing for a little six year old to be drawing.
Have you seen any interest from intelligence agencies when it comes to your work?
Welcome back to another episode of Debrief.
Today, it is my esteemed pleasure and honor to introduce to you a conversation that I've recently had with Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell.
Dr. Powell is a distinguished neuropsychiatrist, neuroscientist, and author renowned for her interdisciplinary research into human consciousness and psychic phenomena.
She earned her medical degree from Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, where she also completed a postdoctoral training in medicine, neurology, and psychiatry.
She has served on the faculty of Harvard Medical School and participated in a Think tank on human consciousness at the Salk Institute in LaHalle, California.
Now, throughout her career, Dr. Powell has explored the intersection between neuroscience and psychic phenomena, with a particular focus on telepathy in autistic savants.
Her groundbreaking work, known as the Telepathy Project, investigates reports of telepathic communication in nonverbal autistic children, aiming to understand the mechanism behind such abilities.
In her book, The ESP Enigma A Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomena, Dr. Powell presents a comprehensive analysis.
On various psychic phenomena.
But one of the most widely recognized and perhaps most topical contributions to telepathy is her involvement with the absolutely viral sensation of a project known as the Telepathy Tapes.
This is a series of recordings that documents remarkable instances of telepathic communication in her research subjects.
Now, these tapes have garnered significant attention recently, even so much as reaching a top five position.
On the Spotify charts with only 10 episodes.
It's filled to the brim, not only with evidence, a lot of evidence of telepathy, but also with just really interesting human stories about people who in our society have been a little bit discarded or suppressed.
Through Dr. Powell's work, they've literally given these people a voice.
I don't think I remember the last time I gave something such a hard push in real life.
Like everybody I come across, I'm like, you have to listen to the telepathy tape.
So do yourself a favor and go check that out.
And now it is my pleasure and honor to present to you a conversation between myself and Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell.
I am joined today by Dr. Powell, Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell, who has been doing amazing research in the field of psi for a very long time, namely recently on a very popular podcast that's taken the internet by storm the telepathy tapes.
So, first of all, thank you, Dr. Powell, for joining me today.
You're welcome.
It's a pleasure.
Dr. Powell, I want to start this interview with a giant disclaimer and propose that our conversation will be based entirely on the statement that psi exists and it is real.
I also want to say that any speculation derived from this statement will be for the sake of thought experiments and encourage lateral thinking.
I know that your time is precious and I don't want to dwell on skepticism too much.
Yes.
So, in your book, The ESP Enigma, a scientific case for study for psychic phenomena, you provide case studies and real world examples.
Of psychic phenomena, telepathy, and so on, demonstrated by people with autism, namely like savants.
You also demonstrated this during the telepathy tapes.
If I had to ask you, what is the most significant discovery that you've come across while working with these kids?
Boy, there's so many.
I mean, it's one of those things where it's really unfolded with one ability after another.
So, I mean, it starts off with a parent telling me that these kids have savant skills.
For example, they know things in science that they were never taught, or they have several languages that they can read, or a lot of them are nonverbal, so they can't speak.
But I'll hear these things, and I'm told that there was no exposure.
And that's something that is well documented as Savant Syndrome you can have people that know things and you don't understand how they know them.
And so that I was sort of expecting, but that.
The first thing that happened was the first kind of dominoed fall, if you will, was having parents say to me, and they're all telepathic, by the way.
And so I thought, oh, wait a minute.
Okay.
So that's a confounding variable because if I'm testing this kid to see if he's a mathematical savant and I'm there looking at the calculator to see if his answer is correct, then how do I know he's not just getting the information from me?
And I mean, some people would say, oh, well, you know, it's all non local information.
Isn't that interesting?
But the scientist in me, the theoretician in me wants to, if possible, really, you know, define these things, delineate them to really understand.
First, you have to sort of tease everything apart, and then you can see later if they're all the same thing.
If I saw the same brain activity common to all of them, I'd say, okay, maybe they are all the same thing.
Maybe it all is just navigating space time, but maybe there's something else.
And the neuropsychiatrist in me knows that there's this correlation between.
The EEG and what our inner experience is.
So, if somebody says they're visualizing something, you'll see heightened activity in the visual cortex.
Or if people who say that they're hearing something, I mean, there's a part of the brain, you know, the auditory cortex that you would expect to have more activity that you can pick up.
And so, there's this way in which I think, as a neuropsychiatrist, I'm thinking, okay, I. Wouldn't it be validating if you have somebody report, well, this is what's happening for me?
And then you see the brain activity is in correspondence with that.
And a good example of that is Laura Lynn Jackson, who's a famous psychic who also receives information as a medium.
And she reports that the information always comes in her right visual field when it comes from, like, it's either psychic or medium.
I oftentimes Get my left right confused.
But anyway, but one of them is where she sees the information that's psychic, and the other is where she sees the information that is mediumship.
And then when you look at her EEG, you'll see that the corresponding sections of the visual cortex to those visual fields actually show a shift in the usual brain activity.
And so that kind of, you know, that kind of science.
Can help to validate these abilities if you see that.
So, anyway, but I, you know, and I'm curious, you know, if somebody is precognitive, which was the next thing, okay, that, you know, that I, first of all, I heard that they were precognitive.
And then it's another thing to actually have examples in which it happens where they say, you know, something's going to, that they're concerned about something and then it does happen.
So, And then I'd say after that, then they start.
The next thing to kind of come up is that, oh, you know, by the way, I get visited by people that are on the other side, you know, and I can get a reading about this relative of yours who's standing over in the corner there.
I haven't been able to do, I know how to set up studies so that I could test for mediumship, but I, You know, at this point, that is really just anecdotal.
But what you see is that you just see, you know, if you think about the phenomena that's been described in parapsychology, I think all of them are described by many of these children.
You know, it's just that they each have their own sort of specialty.
But what they all share in common is definitely the telepathy.
That's fascinating.
And that's, I think, one of the biggest takeaways for me, especially listening to the telepathy tapes, is finding out that they all have this.
And everybody says this with such confidence, like they all have this.
And it's just so mind boggling to me that we can say that they all have this.
Like that is a big piece of data.
That we have to prove that this ability exists.
Like, that is a massive piece of data.
If they're all doing this, have you ever found within these, especially the nonverbal community, have you found that there is a correlation between the strength of the telepathy and their condition?
Yeah, well, that's an interesting question.
I mean, one of the things I'd like to do is I'd like to actually, in a formal way, Actually, test that.
I mean, we can easily do that.
But what I would say is that one of the reasons why, I mean, obviously, there's no way I've tested all non speakers.
But one of the reasons, besides the fact that you hear how emphatically somebody who's working as a speech pathologist has like five of these kids in their office every day, okay?
And they say, you know, emphatically, you know, they all do it.
You know, that bears a lot of weight for me because they would be the ones in the front lines telling you, you know, that this is what they're experiencing.
Another reason why I think it's possible, quite possible, is that really relates to this theory that I have that came from the fact that the ones who seem to be the most profoundly telepathic are the ones whose receptive language is intact.
And their expressive language was short circuited during development.
They were developing normally, and then something happens such that the area of their brain that's involved in speech expression gets excessively pruned.
Okay.
And therefore, they have what's basically an expressive aphasia, which a lot of neurologists are familiar with as oh, somebody has a stroke.
And they can still understand language, but they just can't express it.
And the expression goes for not just using your mouth, but using your fingers as well, because, you know, it's very connected.
And that's one of the reasons why babies who are deaf, I mean, they actually can babble with sign.
Okay.
You know, they're doing all these, you know, just like the baby blah, blah, blah, blah, babbling, you know, there's a certain babbling that occurs with the baby with their hand.
And if they're deaf, we see that, oh, they're using their hand and we try to.
Form it into symbols and language.
But we're so speech oriented that we then, you know, start working with them to get their lips to be that which can create a much more rich symbolism, you know, which we call language.
And so what you have here is you have this innate desire on the part of this infant to communicate.
And when it gets disrupted, then they become really good at what.
You know, what they've got left because the desire to communicate doesn't go away.
And I, what I think is that I suspect that telepathy, this ability to tap into the consciousness of those that are in our surroundings, that that is something that we're, it's innate.
We're all born with that.
And that ability to do that is a lot of how we then start to make associations between sounds.
Consciousness Survival Through Communication00:06:57
That we're hearing around us and some kind of meaning.
It seems so miraculous when you think, well, how did we know that we didn't always have Sesame Street teaching kids how to read?
And they're picking up the oral stuff first before we even think about teaching them to read.
And if you've ever studied a foreign language, it's like there's a lot to figuring out where one word ends and another word begins and the meaning of everything.
And not everything's a noun.
And so we're And they're somehow picking up all of that.
And as I'm saying, what this aha moment that I had was I was like, okay, the most profoundly telepathic are the ones who can't, they have no choice.
That's the only thing that they have, they just don't let go of the default means by which they entered into this existence able to communicate.
And what's frustrating for these kids is that people can't read their mind.
And so they're experiencing all of this information.
And yet, until they were actually given the ability to spell, which doesn't require as accurate a sensory motor system, you know, I mean, a lot of these kids' proprioception is off.
So they don't know exactly where their finger is in space.
And a lot of the physical therapy and occupational therapy that they get is trying to, and the spelling activity itself, Pointing to a big letter board is precisely to try to help to get them to have enough accuracy.
And then once they master it, I mean, then you'll see that they're not hesitating between each letter while they're trying to do the telepathy.
They're just going bing, bing, spelling out what it is that is being thought.
And you're like, how is it?
I mean, at first, I'm like, how is it that they can be spelling what their parent is thinking?
And then you realize, If they're tapping into their consciousness, they're not just getting the message, they're also getting the spelling too.
That's right.
Yeah.
Wow.
That is so mind blowing.
It is, I mean, so I have so many questions.
Do you think that, because obviously this sounds like, like you said, like this yearning to express oneself is what's responsible for this?
And I would say express oneself as opposed to communicate because.
The reception side is like, do we see that in people who have a hard time receiving that they would receive telepathic messages more, or is it more about expression, like self expression?
Do you think that we're more prone to develop these things if our ways to express ourselves are inhibited versus our ways to intake information?
Well, I agree with you that I think that there's just as much an innate sort of drive for self expression as there is for communication.
But if you think about what's going on with an early child who's totally dependent upon us for everything, you know, it's like they can't open the refrigerator door.
They can't.
Right.
They can't, you know, there's so much they can't do unless they learn how to communicate.
So it's survival.
Because a lot of things are, it's a form of expression to be throwing a tantrum.
Right.
You know, yeah, I'm sure expressing myself as I'm banging my head against the wall because I'm so frustrated because I can't communicate with you that this is what I want or need.
And so I think that, yeah, as we get older, the self expression becomes, you know, More critical.
I mean, you know, and that's, I mean, you get into the age of, you know, the even, even starting like the age of, you know, three, you know, the, you know, the terrible twos and threes, you know, where the kid says no and, and, and anything you, you say, it's, there's a no because they're wanting to see that they can, you know, at least, you know, oppose, you know, the program, even though it's really actually what they want to do anyway.
I mean, you know, you get into struggles with this, with a three year old over that stuff because they, you know, they don't really mean no 99% of the time when they say it.
Wow.
So, okay.
That is super interesting.
Yeah, I would.
I mean, yeah, it comes down to, I guess, survival.
And it reminds me a lot about the work that, you know, Dr. Edwin May did with Joe McMonagall, in that they would have the targets be more accurately described if, like, for instance, someone's life was in danger or if it involved children.
So it almost seems like it's consciousness's way of wanting itself to survive.
And it's doing that by any means necessary.
And by all means available to it.
Is that fair to say?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, consciousness is, I mean, yeah, the question is what is it that needs self expression?
You know, consciousness needs expression.
Yeah.
Right.
And so what happens is that in the first several years of life, I mean, particularly the first five years of life, I mean, the brain is undergoing massive, massive development.
And what's driving it is, um, You know, I mean, these things that we're talking about.
And if what happens is, if there's something goes wrong, there's so much plasticity, there's so much flexibility to come up with either a new workaround, you know, or to, you know, some kind of loophole or, you know, or maintaining a default system that, you know, that worked, but, you know, it wasn't perfect, you know, in certain ways, you know.
But basically, that consciousness is going to try to fulfill those drives and will.
Work with what it's got during that developmental phase to make that happen.
And so that's why I'm so interested in what's the brainwiring of some of these individuals who had their language disrupted and then they have these abilities?
How did they rewire their brains?
And how does that rewiring relate to their specific set of special skills beyond just the telepathy, the savant skills, which are more common in autistics than they are in other populations?
Rewiring Brains After Language Loss00:08:24
The other population that they're the most common in is the blind.
Both of those are circumstances in which you have something that gets disrupted, something that is usually used by us to navigate or to get around for survival purposes.
And an alternative is wired into their system.
Yeah, enhanced.
Yeah, they're even better at that.
I mean, like the.
The, I don't know if you're familiar with like the people who are blind who can echo locate.
Yes.
They can just click, you know, click and then detect the signal bouncing off of things and they can do all kinds of things that, you know, a lot of decided people be afraid of.
Exactly.
I remember seeing that on, I think it was like Ripley's, believe it or not, or something like a long time ago.
And I remember myself like in my room trying to click and closing my eyes and seeing if I could.
And yeah, it felt impossible to me.
So it was that much more impressive when I, you know, when I seen someone do it.
Okay.
I want to speak about this particular phenomenon that I've heard about through the telepathy tapes, which I think really captivated a lot of people and raised a million questions in my own mind.
The Talk on the Hill.
This is, I mean, this is like, it really feels like something out of a sci fi movie or a comic book or something.
It is genuinely, I think, for me, one of the most inspiring things that I've heard throughout this project.
And to give maybe people a brief summary, and maybe you can help me on this, but it's essentially a place where these mainly, I think, nonverbal communicators go to in a state of sort of meditation and communicate thoughts and ideas and teach each other things.
And if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of them who do this.
Is that correct?
Is that fair to say?
Yeah, yeah, that's fair to say.
What's interesting is that there's been more than one group of individuals who have brought up the hill before we had the telepathy tapes released.
So without it being that they heard about it and then said, oh, yeah, I go to the hill too.
And that's number one.
Number two is the fact that there's more than one hill.
And one person put it that there's hills for different ages, kind of almost like how high school, you've got junior high, high school, that there's different general age groups.
And that makes sense.
I mean, socially, birds of a feather flock together.
So if you were to open up a big playground and you had five year olds and nine year olds and 15 year olds, you know they're going to self assort by.
By age.
And then another thing that's interesting is that more than one child's described it as having a library.
And that makes a lot of people then think about, oh, is that the Akashic Records?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they're sort of like, they're studying.
And a lot of this is occurring while they're sleeping and dreaming sleep.
Which we know, dreaming sleep is more closely associated with psychic abilities than a lot of other states.
But some of them can also, I guess, during the day, they can just kind of go up to the bedroom and shut the door and kind of go to the hill and visit their friends.
But they need to be in a safe place like their bed to do it.
They're not just walking around, going to the hill.
I mean, it's my understanding.
Is there a specific example of some verifiable case that has happened?
So, for instance, someone went to go learn something and they came back with more knowledge than they had prior to going to the hill.
Has there been any form of telepathic communication between two individuals that was later confirmed, even though they didn't meet each other and know of each other, that they confirmed each other's existence?
Has there been any examples of that?
I've been told that that that there that that has happened.
Yeah.
I mean, I haven't been able to, you know, personally, you know, witness it, you know, do the controlled experiments that I'd like to do.
But yes, I've been, I've been told that definitely that, you know, there are these, there are friendships.
I mean, you know, so there are certain kids that have more of an affinity for another kid, you know, so it's not that they're just going to the hill and getting, Yeah, you know, and talking with everybody, you know, it's that they, you know, they have some specifically more that they want to see on the hill.
So there's that kind of thing going on.
And that, you know, and so that telepathy between two people, you know, whether it's happening on the hill or whatever, I mean, that's, you know, harder to say, but, you know, it's impressive.
It, you know, if there really is, you know, telepathy happening between them, which is, you know, there's no reason to, I mean, discount the people who were reporting that.
Sure.
But there's just so much about this that they're interconnected with one another.
There's just so much about this that just needs to be explored.
And so that's one of the ones I want to set up.
I mean, the experiment that I want to set up for the documentary is.
I wanted to make, I mean, I'm going to be doing other experiments, but I want it for the documentary.
I want to have the best possible demonstration of this phenomenon possible.
And to me, at this point, I think one of the best demonstrations would be to have two kids, totally separate individuals, you know, being, you know, where, you know, two different states, you know, across the country, whatever, but they're totally.
Apart from one another, they're each working with their best facilitator for their communication, but that's not the person who's holding the thoughts about, you know, that the kid's supposed to read.
It's let's see the two kids and communicate with one another and see what happens.
And so that's an experiment I really want to set up, among others.
Yeah, I mean, that sounds exciting.
And I'm sure everybody would be very excited to see something like that happen.
You know, it's so interesting how we're kind of sort of casually strolling by the idea that these kids are reading their parents' minds.
It's such a post psychic disclosure world that I feel like we're living in right now, which, and I didn't even get to revel in like this psychic phenomenon yet.
So I freak out from time to time just even thinking about this internally.
And it makes me very excited.
Could you perhaps, just for the audience that maybe isn't familiar, give one example of some type of test of the many, many tests that were performed?
One example and of the sort of variables that were controlled during this test and what the outcome was?
Sure.
I mean, so the child actually that I spent the most time, some of the children that I spent the most time studying actually aren't even part of the telepathy tapes.
Testing Telepathy With Numbers00:03:01
Those children that are in that are ones that Kai wanted to, she wanted to be there from the very beginning, you know, that she didn't want to see somebody I had already tested.
But I would say that one of the most impressive was this girl named Haley, who was somebody that she literally, She literally did six different sessions, each two hours long, with two separate therapists, where we had a barrier between them, a visual barrier between her and the therapist.
And she loved numbers.
And so, and she didn't like it to be just, you know, simple numbers.
And so, what I would do is I took a random number generator and I created random numbers, like You know, five, six, you know, digits, you know, different, you know, anything between, you know, you know, zero and, you know, 10 million kind of thing.
And then any, you know, whatever numbers came up.
And then I would, and then I would come up with an operation between them.
I, you know, either be multiplying them or dividing them or finding a key root or whatever, but those numbers.
And then I would ask her to give me all the numbers that are part of the equation.
Okay.
So what is the equation in the first place?
And then she'd Point on numbers, you know, and what is the operation?
When you say you would, she would give you all the numbers, this is without seeing the numbers, this is completely across the room.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
But, you know, the therapist would be thinking of, you know, the therapist would be looking at the mathematical equation I gave her, and let's say, you know, it was, you know, one five seven four times, you know, 302.
And so she would say those two numbers.
Okay.
She would also choose that it was times because she had the, you know, the, you know, on her stencil board, she had, you know, the thing for those kinds of operations.
And then, and then, and then I'd say, and what is that, you know, and the therapist said, what does that equal?
And then she would give you the correct answer.
And, and so if you add up, if you just treat all of those individual digits, both of the numbers that were part of the, You know, the mathematical operation and the numbers that were the answer.
She did, I tested her for, it was 162, it was 162 numbers, and she got all but seven correct.
And the seven mistakes she made, she got on the second try.
All in a matter of, gosh, you know, 15 minutes maybe.
Instant Communication Without Bandwidth00:04:30
I mean, wow.
Yeah.
And so that gives you, because she's not there trying to pick up some kind of subtle cue, you know, she's just going at it.
Like, okay.
This is fascinating.
I mean, this is, it does look like it is instant.
Communication, by the way, there's no bandwidth.
And that is something, as you know, I'm a magician.
I've pretended to have these psychic abilities, and I'm pretty sure I could convince someone that I have psychic abilities because I've been doing it for so long, right?
There is a moral and ethical line that I do respect.
But, you know, for me, it's always about dramatically playing up the idea that, oh, you're thinking I'm getting a two.
But these children are doing it instantly.
There's no hesitation.
Yep.
And so that brings me to the next question because when perceiving or sort of communicating information locally through remote viewing or through telepathy, like because we're instantly sending and receiving information through space, does that imply that we might be able to perceive or even affect information through time?
Oh, I, well, yeah.
I mean, I, you know, I look at both quantum physics and the theory of repetition.
You know, the theory of relativity tells us that our concept of time is an illusion.
It's not just moving like an arrow does in a single direction.
And so I think a lot of these parapsychological phenomena, what they tell us is exactly what physicists were telling us 100 years ago.
And that is that we're locked into our sensory system, has kind of fooled us into just.
Thinking that reality is just three physical dimensions and a very limited view of what time is.
And so we know that space time itself curves.
And it curves as a result of something called gravity.
We don't understand gravity entirely by any stretch of the imagination.
But we do know that.
That was, you know, Einstein's, you know, description of gravity.
And it really, you know, it holds up.
And so, you know, similarly, we know from quantum physics that you have certain conservation laws that if you have two particles that were associated with one another, they say two electrons, they have, and one has a spin that goes up and the other has a spin that goes down, that no matter how far apart they are,
if you switch the spin on one of them to the opposite direction, That other particle has to instantaneously switch as well.
Yeah.
Because they're really still connected.
I mean, that's what it's telling us.
And I think they're still connected by other dimensions.
You know, that's, I think, yeah, I think that the spookiness of entanglement goes away once you realize that things that we think are separate in this very limited view of reality, they're really not separate.
Similarly, you know, things that are, you know, we think of as being solid, we know are not solid based on how much space there is in anatomy.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, you know, there's, I think it was Einstein that said the only reason we have time is so that everything doesn't happen all at once.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's really that what that is, is it's a mental construct.
Yeah.
It's a human interface.
Yeah, exactly.
And so that's so much of what we're talking about.
Here is the human interface.
I mean, that's what drew me to neuropsychiatry because what it did was it put me in a position where I could have knowledge of the brain and at the same time spend hours talking with people who would describe what their reality was to me, what their experience actually was.
Time As A Mental Construct00:13:22
Talking with people who are diagnosed as schizophrenic is like talking to somebody who's currently in a dream.
Wow.
But the difference is that it's a dream they totally believe.
Right.
Yeah.
Why wouldn't they?
Yeah.
And so then the funny thing is that when you see these people that come in your office that are diagnosed schizophrenic and they come in with proof of their reality, and you're like, wow.
Okay.
Wow.
You have to think about, well, what does that say?
Is it that we're labeling people as having schizophrenia or psychosis?
Who just happened to, for whatever reason, be having these experiences more, but it's not that their reality is any less real than our reality.
I mean, is that what that says?
I mean, you know, it's these are the kind of questions that I think we need to ask ourselves.
But at the same time, there's some realities people could be living in that don't have good survival value.
And so then, you know, it's fine if they're, you know, a shaman in a cave, you know, or somebody who's a guru, you know, on a mountain, having everybody take care of all your basic needs so that you can be spending that much time in an alternative reality that might contain information for us that's valuable,
which is a lot of indigenous cultures, they valued these kinds of people.
What we did was we just automatically label everybody as insane who reports those experiences.
And so I think that there can be survival value in not ever having those experiences, okay, because you can always be on task.
So where you run into some problems is when people are a blend where they have those experiences and yet they're, in order to have any kind of life in our society, we also expect them to.
To be operating from a more embodied perspective than they're capable of.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, that's one of the, I think, more tragic sides of this phenomenon as well, is that they're, you know, these individuals are so gifted and we have so much to learn from them.
But, you know, I think with the help of people like yourselves and people like Kai and this documentary and your work, I think we'll be able to shed some light on their value as human beings in our society.
Because I think for, Just a long time.
This really, really made me very sad.
Was looking at how these individuals have been treated, not only in other countries, but in even the United States, North America, historically.
And it hasn't been, you know, it hasn't been too good.
And it's been appalling.
Appalling.
It's been appalling.
I mean, it's that, you know, people were using shock collars on these kids.
They would, they would do be adversive behavioral stuff when these kids were in institutions.
And that is a practice that, I mean, I don't think it ended that long ago.
I mean, it certainly was still being done during the course of my career.
Yeah.
There's, I mean, other countries have been known, you know, there's been, you know, people have been euthanized for these things, you know, and it's, it's just an absolute tragedy.
So, like, first of all, like, I mean, it's, It's so good that you're doing this, and I'm so glad to be able to help spread this message because it deserves the attention.
Okay, I do want to ask about something since we're playing thought experiments here.
I'm someone who definitely believes in non human intelligence.
And I wanted to ask, because you touched on this a little bit at the beginning of the conversation, but have you ever seen or heard of any examples of these children sort of interacting with something that, for lack of a better word, is non human?
Well, so I haven't personally witnessed it myself.
I've heard accounts and I've heard accounts that they're evil ones and then that they're good ones.
But they're putting it in terms of entities, which who knows what they are.
And I remember once I was actually somewhere, but I was observing some children who were really advanced in math, and they were in this math club and they were autistic.
And I looked over at this one little boy's piece of paper, and I mean, he had drawn the head that looks like a gray with those classic eyes.
And I was just like, oh, that's kind of an interesting thing for a little six year old to be drawing.
Wow.
You know, so, I mean, you know, so that's the kind of, you know, evidence that this is a possibility that I've seen.
And, you know, it's the kind of thing that, I mean, obviously, we're going to be wanting to know, you know, what is it that these children are experiencing?
We also want to know how we can support them best because a lot of their experiences are quite frightening for them.
I mean, it's, I mean, I just in the last, A couple of days.
I mean, I've had a couple of parents who've, you know, contacted me because they're desperate because they don't know what to do for their child because their child has had precognitions that have come true that were not good.
And they're having precognitions of things that aren't good.
And so, and but the problem is they don't that you know, it's like, is that going to happen tomorrow?
Is it going to happen a month from now?
I mean, around all of that, what do you do?
You can't, you can't lock your, you can't lock your father up or your, your, your sister, put her on house arrest because you're afraid she's going to go out the door and something's going to happen to her, you know, and it's like, so, so there's, there's a lot of different, um, aspects to all of this that with.
My background is both a scientist and as a clinician and a compassionate human being.
I want to see so much manifest so that we have the appropriate kind of support for these individuals, whether we're talking about their education or we're talking about their emotional support.
Because if you think about it, I mean, how would you behave?
If you experience the world that they do, yeah, I wouldn't even, I can't even imagine what it is that they're experiencing.
And that's just it.
That's the, I think part of my fascination with it too is that I want to understand because I think there is value there and there is, you know, something to appreciate on a human level from our existence.
There's so much to learn, you know, in a world.
I mean, we're at a place in the world where, We're the most disenchanted we've ever been.
And this for me provides real magic.
This, this is, it's just, it's given me a lot to look forward to, a lot to be hopeful for, um, for our species as well.
And I think, you know, I, I, I think I agree with you.
I think, yeah, more eyes, the better, the more work, the better, the more help, the better.
Um, yeah, I can't imagine what all of those things must be like.
And when you, when you touched on precognition there, It reminds me, I interviewed Graham Nichols.
Not sure if you're familiar with Graham Nichols.
He does a lot of out of body experience work.
And, you know, he's worked with Dean Radin and Rupert Sheldrake.
And he had a verifiable precognition that happened as well during an out of body experience.
He was surrounded by multiple people, five of his friends, and they wrote down, you know, he said there was going to be this explosion on this street in London, in Soho.
He doesn't know when.
But he's like, he felt like he saw the explosion and five days later it occurred exactly where he had said.
And, you know, when I heard something like that, you know, it begs the question like, is that something you can alter?
Is that, is there a reason you're getting this?
Is it because he, I don't think he would have been there.
So what was really the point of it?
And like, so I mean, there's, like you said, so many questions, so much to discover, so much to learn from.
And for someone like you to be in every single one of those directions, I mean, that's a lot of responsibility, that's a lot of work.
Yeah, yeah, believe me.
Yeah.
But, you know, to your point, you know, I just want to make the comment that I became really fascinated by this work by Phyllis Atwater.
And she wrote a book called Future Memory.
And the way that she, and I talk about this in my book, The ESP News, and the way that she describes future memory, it sounds like it's like she gets a glimpse into the future and it just plays like a movie and then it collapses down.
And she gets these visual shifts and different things before it happens.
It's like she sees a movie, then it shuts down.
And then sometime in the future, that moment arrives, and she knows exactly what somebody's going to say.
She knows exactly what's going to happen next.
It literally is like having had the movie from the future.
This is that idea of the block universe where the past, present, and past all coexist.
It really is like you've seen something from the future that's so vivid.
And then the question comes up.
When you realize I've been here before, can you alter the course of events?
And what she tells in her book is that sometimes you can, and sometimes you can't.
Sometimes you're in a situation where you can actually act on this recognition oh, this is where the bus is going to hit that lady walking across the street, and you can grab the lady's arm.
Or some things, Just seem to be part of whether it's a soul contract or whatever it is, something seems to that you can't prevent them.
It's like it's in the hard wiring.
And so I think that a lot of life is like that, that we have free will.
And yet at the same time, there's a lot of things that are already part of the script of why we're here.
And it can be hard to discern what's what.
But I encourage people to not think that it's all just locked in stone.
And, you know, it's like, okay, you know, I saw that into the future.
And that means it has to happen because I think that maybe it's part of why we get warnings.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a great point.
And it would be like sort of us warning ourselves in the past.
But, like, you know, it's, I read this book by Dr. Michael Newton, The Journey of Souls.
And I read a few of his books.
And, You know, he mentions as well because you mentioned soul contract, and he does mention something like that as well, where when these souls are choosing their incarnation or whatever it is, that they scrub through their lives.
And the further forward they go, the sort of blurrier it gets because of the amount of variables are just sort of increasing the further away you get.
So it's almost like it's a probability factor, but free will can still sort of impose itself to a certain extent in the future.
You can see the past probably with a lot more clarity than you could the future.
Okay.
Has any of the people you've worked with demonstrated any ability of PK or telekinesis?
Demonstrating Telekinetic Abilities00:02:39
Have you ever seen any of that in person or have you ever heard of maybe anecdotally of someone doing something like that?
Because I know they did some tests in the 80s in China and in Tibet with these children, you know, but that's so far away and it's in a time where.
You know, it's kind of nebulous.
Have you ever seen any evidence of that?
Well, so I haven't seen it in person, but what I have seen is there are at least two or three different individuals who are not children, they're adults, but they're on the spectrum who contacted me a long time ago, and they have sent me multiple videos of them doing things that would be considered PK.
You know, so for example, having like pinwheels where you have like, you know, maybe three or four different layers of different pinwheels, okay, and being able to move some of them this way and others that way, you know, through, you know, just making a hand motion like this.
And then, and then you'll see, you know, and the fact that it's what's important about it being multiple.
Pinwheels is that, you know, if it was just, oh, there's a fan behind her that I can't see, you know, it's like, but, you know, if you've got multiple pinwheels, obviously they should be going in the same direction, you know, if they're getting hit by something like that.
So, and then, you know, another form that I've seen in videos again is somebody being outside and pointing to the sky and having the cloud disperse.
Yeah, cloud bursting.
Yeah, I've seen that on video as well.
Yeah, these are, I mean, just more examples of amazing things that are left to be discovered and studied and tested.
You know, it's quite exciting because it does, you know, just the fact that this exists, that this sciability exists, I mean, it opens up an immense floodgate.
And, you know, I think to that effect, that's probably, you know, the reason why there's such a big pushback is that.
This completely shifts the idea of materialist science into an entirely new era of undiscovered, uncharted territory.
Challenging Materialist Science Paradigms00:03:32
And that can be daunting.
It can be shocking ontologically.
It can be all of those things.
But what better time than now, I think.
We might as well go for it.
100%.
I mean, 100%.
I mean, I think we're overdue for a paradigm shift, really.
And I think that my work is just, you know, the thing that's just kind of potentially push it over, you know, but it's been there waiting to be tipped over.
Yeah.
But what's interesting is it's kind of, it's almost like the, you know, the iceberg effect where, you know, the iceberg, the part of the iceberg you don't see underwater is melting.
Okay.
Okay, so you can be like, you can be in a, you know, Kodiak, you know, right near this iceberg, you know, and then all of a sudden the thing decides to flip on you.
That's a big thing to flip, you know.
It's not like a slow little thing like this.
It just goes overnight, totally different.
Yeah, I expect something like that to happen very soon.
I'll end with one final question here.
And, you know, feel free to answer this in any way you see fit, but I had to ask, Have you seen any interest from intelligence agencies when it comes to your work, especially in this particular field?
Well, first of all, I've always been self-funding.
And so I've never taken any money from any of the three-letter agencies.
And I've been, but the reality is, I've been too public about this work.
In scientific conferences where I know there's a high intelligence, I mean, just by definition, okay.
I mean, if you go to a parapsychological association, you tell me you don't think there's anybody that, you know, reports back to intelligence at what they learned.
I mean, you know, it's, I'd be naive to think that that wasn't the case.
And so, yeah, I, you know, I think that they're interested in my work.
I mean, there's, But I haven't had anybody come to me and offer me a position like that.
I mean, I've been working.
Yeah, I've been wanting to.
One of the things I have somebody who's interested in funding my research who says that one of the things that's the problem with being funded by the three letter agencies is that things remain classified and you have no control over it.
And so he wants to see private investors step up to the plate to fund research.
That then becomes the public's property.
You know, it's kind of that, because that's been part of the problem is that, you know, a lot of this stuff still remains classified.
Still secret.
And so, but, you know, the reality is that public perception has not diminished in terms of its belief in this.
If anything, you know, it's grown.
It's increased.
Funding Research For The Public00:03:31
Yeah.
Do you ever feel sort of apprehensive about these agencies approaching these children, perhaps like in the future?
Because, as someone who follows a lot of this stuff, and I've been, you know, I've looked at all the Stargate stuff and all the, you know, Grill Flame and it goes back and the MKUltra and all these things.
But, like, do you ever, are you ever like weary of that fact or cognizant of that fact that, like, you know, they might be approached one day?
Because I feel like that would be of great interest to a lot of these agencies.
Well, I mean, one of the things I'd say is that none of us want, we're very protective of these children.
None of us want to see them get exploited.
We really don't.
What we want is for them to have opportunities to get an education and make the contributions they want to in the world.
And rather than turning them into psychic spies or this or that, what they want to do is help.
Solve a lot of the big questions that we have that have to do with saving the planet, you know.
And, you know, they're very interested in making the world a better place.
And I think that that's a beautiful mission that we need to protect as much as we're protecting them.
Well said.
Yeah, I think that's a perfect way to end it.
You know, it completely.
Sort of exemplifies their mission statement and who they are.
I think you look at these children and even these adults, and the one thing you can tell for sure is that they're all pure of heart.
And I think that is the biggest gift that they have, showing us that amount of compassion, not only for each other, but for this earth.
So a beautiful message.
Thank you so much, Dr. Powell.
You've been just an absolute delight.
I I enjoyed picking your brain.
So, thank you for letting me do that.
You're very welcome.
Okay.
Thank you.
So, there you have it, folks.
That is my interview with Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell on telepathy and her work therein.
Just a fascinating human being.
And honestly, I commend her for her work because it has to be so challenging to not only get past the hurdles of communication with a lot of these people, but just even hearing their stories.
You know, listening to the telepathy tapes was such an emotional roller coaster for myself that.
I couldn't imagine being subjected to that on a daily basis.
It definitely takes a strong person to be exposed to this type of stuff on a daily basis.
Folks, I would love to hear your thoughts on all of this.
What in this interview was the most interesting thing that you took away from this?
Please comment below.
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