Chris Ramsey examines a 1987 John W. White document alleging MJ12 sold humanity to "little gray" EBEs in exchange for technology, suppressing abduction data while inserting monitoring devices into victims. The analysis details the 1979 Dulce Laboratory conflict where 66 soldiers allegedly died and explores William Moore's controversial claims of alien genetic engineering versus potential government disinformation campaigns. Ramsey speculates on a staged disclosure strategy to manage public "ontological shock" without economic collapse, noting FBI denials of MJ12's authenticity while questioning why scientists like Carl Sagan ignored potential cover-ups. Ultimately, the episode suggests the invasion may already be complete, urging listeners to distinguish between verified facts and speculative fear. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, Qwen/Qwen3-ForcedAligner-0.6B, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Paranet, John White, and Reverse Engineering00:07:15
On December 12th, 2024, around 6 05 p.m. Eastern, I walked right past my balcony window.
I live right across the river from the Newark FBI office, and I saw a massive 50 foot, approximately Vonta Black boomerang go right past my window.
Thailand floated right across the river, right through the buildings downtown Newark.
Three white lights, two red, in a line on the back, made no noise.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Debriefed.
My name is Chris Ramsey, and today we're going to take a good hard look at a document submitted to the Perronet website in 1987 by none other than the godfather of conspiracy, John Lear.
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And I'll leave all the links to that below.
Folks, we've paid the bills.
I think it's time to get into it.
Okay.
Before I read these out, I will give you a brief history on Mr. Lear himself.
So, John Lear is a former aviation captain, a commercial pilot, but also happens to be the son of Learjet inventor Bill Lear.
John Lear, until he passed away a few years ago, was One of the most prominent figures in the UFO landscape.
He not only had multiple FAA certifications, but also flew on several missions for the CIA, which inevitably made him a little bit more credible when he came out with the information that someone he knew worked for a secret facility within the United States government at Area 51 called Section 4, otherwise known as S4.
Yes, folks, he introduced the world to Bob Lazar.
He met with George Knapp and set up the most famous interview in ufology, I believe, to date.
Well, there's several.
Actually, nine flying saucers, flying disks that are out there of extraterrestrial origin.
However, over time, Lear's assertions became increasingly outlandish.
He would go on rants about lunar bases, the moon being a hologram, and mind control projects.
And while some admired him as a whistleblower, others felt his credibility waned as he got into more and more extreme conspiracies.
And say what you want about the guy, but this guy was talking about mind control things before.
MKUltra went public.
He was also talking about underground military bases where they were reverse engineering alien craft before we even heard of Area 51.
Now, there is an entire other side to this he potentially could be a psyop, meaning that the government used him in an active disinformation campaign, which would not be unheard of.
And in fact, John Lear admits to this.
He says that there is a potential that they fed him false information and that would muddy up the actual correct information that he was.
Able to leak out.
And that's the way a lot of these disinformation campaigns function they will put out a vast majority of truth and insert only one or two fibs.
But these fibs sounding so extreme and bizarre in nature that it makes you literally throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, Well, I guess they're lying about everything.
Now, what those lies are, I guess, is up to the public to decide.
And that's something we're going to try to get to the bottom of today as we're going to read through a statement that he put out so many years ago in 1987.
Detailing the government's involvement with EBEs or extraterrestrial biological entities, UFOs, the reverse engineering, and the government's role in future disclosure.
This all begins with a nice cover letter.
This is from John W. White.
If I'm not mistaken, John White is also a UFO researcher and he is just forwarding this document that was put up on their version of Reddit, essentially.
And he's saying the following Dear somebody, I don't know who that is, but it says, I'm sending this astounding document about UFOs to you because I feel.
You will be interested andor have a need to know.
I obtained it by downloading it from an electronic bulletin board called Paranet, which is headquartered in Arizona and has regional nodes.
Paranet is dedicated to disseminating information about paranormal phenomena and acting as a forum for discussion.
Memberships in Paranet is free and open to the public.
All it takes is a computer and a modem.
You can dial in at 603 837 0062.
Then find the original node nearest to.
So, your phone charges will be minimized.
Sincerely, John White.
And whoever this was directed to wrote underneath a few questions that my guess is he facts back to this person back then and underlining Paranet and saying, Who set this up?
Who sustains it financially and why?
Who benefits from those who really know things identifying themselves and their views via this bulletin board?
I smell federal deceit.
So, even the person that this was sent to back in 1987.
Thought that this also was a psyop.
Folks, we stand on the very shaky shoulders of a lot of conspiracy theorists before us.
Let's get into his document.
It starts by saying John Lear has requested that the following file be published on Paranet.
It is our philosophy to encourage debate on paranormal issues, no matter how controversial, and we welcome his input.
The information contained in this file has not been verified by Paranet, nor do the opinions expressed herein necessarily reflect.
Those of the administrator or other Paranet staff members.
We can state, however, that John is who he says he is and has numerous contacts and sensitive positions that could conceivably allow him to access information of this type.
And that, folks, has been known for a very long time that John was working in the CIA and did say on numerous occasions that he was being fed information by people who were on the inside or otherwise known as people in the program.
So here is the statement.
We begin.
This is December 29th, 1987.
Folks, almost 40 years to the day.
Walking Aliens at Bentwaters Air Base00:02:31
That is insane.
John Lear, a captain for a major U.S. airline, has flown over 160 different types of aircraft in over 50 different countries.
He holds 17 world speed records in Learjet and is the only pilot ever to hold every airline certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration.
Lear has flown missions worldwide for the CIA and other government agencies.
A former Nevada state senator candidate, he is the son of William P. Lear, designer of the Learjet executive airplane, the 8 track stereo, and founder of Lear Siegler Corporation.
Lear became interested in the subject of UFOs 13 months ago after talking with United States Air Force personnel who had witnessed a UFO landing at Bentwaters Air Force Base near London, England.
And three small aliens.
Walking up to the wing commander.
So the Lackenheath Bentwaters incident.
Now, when saying is it Lackenheath, Lakenheath, I'm not sure, but that does sound familiar.
Isn't that the current Air Force base that is being incurred by a lot of these unexplainable drone activities?
So the Lackenheath Bentwaters incident was a series of radar and visual contacts with UFOs over air bases in eastern England on the night of August 13th and 14th, 1956.
So it involved.
Personnel from the Royal Air Force and the United States Air Force.
I mean, some of these targets were detected approaching Bentwaters from the east at a speed estimated from 2,000 to 4,000 miles an hour.
It passed overhead, a rapidly moving white light was observed from the ground.
While the pilot of a C 47 at 4,000 feet over Bentwaters reported a similar light had passed beneath his craft.
At this point, Bentwaters alerted the U.S. tenanted RAF Lakenheath Base 40 miles to the northwest.
To look out for targets.
And then ground personnel at Lakenheath made visual sightings of several luminous objects, including two, which arrived, made a sharp change in course, and appeared to merge before moving off.
And so, what Mr. Lear is getting to here that it didn't stop with radar and visual sightings of a UFO, but that it continued with three small aliens walking up to the wing commander.
All right, we carry on here.
Note to the press the government of the United States continues to rely on your personal bravery.
Forty Years of Government Secrecy Exposed00:12:29
Professional gullibility to suppress the information contained herein.
Your cooperation over the past 40 years has exceeded our wildest expectations, and we salute you.
The sun does not revolve around the earth.
The United States government has been in business with little gray extraterrestrials for about 20 years.
The first truth stated here got Giordano Bruno burned at the stake in 1600 AD for daring to propose that this was real.
The second truth has gotten far more people killed trying to state it publicly than will ever be known.
That was a dark fact right there.
Wow.
But the truth must be told.
The fact that the earth revolves around the sun was successfully suppressed by the church for over 200 years.
It eventually caused a major upheaval in the church, government, and thought, a realignment of social and traditional values that was in the 1800s.
Now, about 400 years after the first truth was pronounced, we must again.
Face the shocking facts, the horrible truth.
The government has been hiding from us for over 40 years.
Unfortunately, the horrible truth is far more horrible than the government had ever imagined.
In its effort to protect democracy, our government sold us to the aliens.
And here's how it happened.
But before I begin, I'd like to offer a word in the defense of those who bargained us away.
They had the best of intentions.
We know that saying the road to hell was paved with good intentions.
Germany may have recovered a flying saucer as early as 1939.
General James H. Doolittle went to Sweden in 1946 to inspect a flying saucer that had crashed there in Spitsbergen.
In 1947, President Truman established a group of 12 of the top military scientific personnel of their time.
They were known as MJ 12 or Majestic 12.
The people that control this information is an organization that we know of as MJ 12.
Although the group exists today, none of the original members are still alive.
The last one to die was Gordon Gray, former Secretary of the Army, in 1984.
As each member passed away, the group itself appointed a new member to fill the position.
There is some speculation that the group known as MJ 12 expanded to at least several more members.
There were several more saucer crashes in the late 1940s one in Roswell, New Mexico, one in Aztec, New Mexico, and one near Laredo, Texas, about 30 miles.
Inside the Mexican border.
Consider, if you will, the position of the United States government at the time.
There are several crashes reported here, one of which is mentioned in Aztec, New Mexico.
And this is one I'm currently looking into as I'm reading a book on it.
And there seems to be a substantial and overwhelming amount of evidence of documentation of this retrieval to have happened and that this craft was eventually, potentially, brought into Los Alamos.
You know, by looking at the 4chan whistleblower, if you haven't checked that video out yet, I highly recommend.
But we did a deep dive on this person who said he basically worked for a secret branch of the government that did these crash retrievals.
But he would say that, yeah, near Mexico and New Mexico, that's where they would go down.
They avoid that spot like the plague currently.
But back then, they would find quite a bit of them go down in that vicinity.
It really, really makes you ponder that during that time, obviously, there was the Manhattan Project that came from this and, you know, Oppenheimer and all of that, where the Germans were racing.
Against the Russians and the Americans to try and build a nuke.
And during that time, you know, there was a ton of nuclear work being done and thus UFO incursions were happening at all these bases.
And namely, if you want to check it out, there's an amazingly brilliant video by YouTuber Jesse Michaels, American Alchemy, who put that out.
Go check that out.
What a fun rabbit hole to jump down.
He did a brilliant job on that.
So, think about this.
The government, we know that during the Cold War, when they even heard about psychics or Russia's sort of psychic activity into mind reading and mind control and all that, they started their own branches of the very same work because they said, hey, if this stuff is real, we can't take a chance and not look into it.
We have to at least pour some resources into it and look at it ourselves.
The same has to be said about the UFO thing.
I mean, Foo Fighters in the war were avoiding these things because they were almost colliding with them during their missions.
There had to be an extreme amount of research into this topic by both the Axis and the Allies back then.
You'd be a fool to think they weren't at least trying to uncover what was going on and militarizing it somehow.
I digress.
Consider, if you will, the position of the United States government at that time.
They proudly thought of themselves as the most powerful nation on earth, having recently produced the atomic bomb, an achievement so stupendous it would take Russia four years to catch up, and only with the help.
Of traitors to democracy.
They had built a jet aircraft that had exceeded the speed of sound in flight.
They had built jet bombers with intercontinental range that could carry weapons of enormous destruction.
The post war era and the future seemed bright.
Now imagine what it was like for those same leaders, all of whom had witnessed the panic of Orson Welles' radio broadcast, The War of the Worlds, in 1938.
We are bringing you an eyewitness account of what's happening on the Wilmeth Farm, Groversville, New Jersey.
Lord, they're turning into planes.
How the hell do you call it?
By the woods of Barnsley.
Thousands of Americans panicked at a realistically presented invasion of Earth by beings from another planet.
Imagine their horror as they actually viewed the dead bodies of these frightening looking little creatures with enormous eyes, reptilian skin, and claw like fingers.
Imagine their shock as they attempted to determine how these strange saucers were powered and could discover no part even remotely similar to.
To components they were familiar with.
No cylinders or pistons, no vacuum tubes or turbines or hydraulic actuators.
It is only when you fully understand the overwhelming helplessness the government was faced with in the late 1940s that you can comprehend their perceived need for a total, thorough, and sweeping cover up to include the use of deadly force.
When something this paradigm shifting on the Military battlefield is encountered, you have to acknowledge that putting this in the wrong hands can lead to devastating and obviously world changing consequences.
So, their use of deadly force to protect this secret, according to them, was justified.
The cover up was so successful that as late as 1985, a senior scientist with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, Dr. Al Hibbs, would look at a videotape of an enormous flying saucer and state the record.
I'm not going to assign anything to that UFO phenomena without a lot more data.
Dr. Hibbs was looking at the naked emperor and saying he certainly looks naked, but that doesn't prove he's naked.
Sounds a lot like arrow.
In July of 1952, a panicked government watched helplessly as a squadron of flying saucers flew over Washington, D.C. and buzzed the White House, the Capitol building, and the Pentagon.
It took all the imagination and intimidation the government could muster to force that incident out of the memory of the public.
I am here to discuss the so called flying saucers.
We can say that the recent sightings are in no way connected with any secret development by any department of the United States.
A pretty incredible incident.
Had that happened today, it kind of is happening today if you think about it.
Thousands of sightings occurred during the Korean War, and several more saucers were retrieved by the Air Force.
Some were stored at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
Some were stored at Air Force bases near the location of the crash site.
What I'm going to read to you next is interesting because this was actually echoed by Ross Coulthard recently, as recent as last year.
Ross had said that there was a giant UFO somewhere that was too big to move, so they built the base around it.
And that really made headlines in The UFO community.
People are going to question what I'm about to say.
What if some of that shit is so big it can't be moved?
So big they built a building over it in a country outside of the United States of America.
But in fact, John Lear, I mean, he's got it right here.
One saucer was so enormous and the logistic problems in transportation so enormous that it was buried at the crash site and remains there today.
The stories are legendary on transporting crashed saucers over long distances, moving only at night, purchasing complete farms.
Slashing through forests, blocking major highways, sometimes driving two and three low boys in tandem with an extraterrestrial load 100 feet in diameter.
On April 30th, 1964, the first communication between these aliens and the U.S. government took place at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico.
Three saucers had landed at a prearranged area, and a meeting was held between the aliens and intelligence officers of the U.S. government.
All right, folks, the Holloman Air Force incident is.
Pretty infamous in UFO lore.
And one of the reasons why is because there was a documentary actually put out by the CIA back in the day.
And at the very end of this documentary is about an eight second clip.
This eight second clip is what seems to be has a flying saucer coming down on sort of desert terrain and about to land, and the video feed cuts.
Turns out the director of that very documentary says that that video exists.
Uncut.
And that as the video goes on, this craft comes to the ground, lands, and exiting from it are multiple alien beings.
And that's where a meeting happened.
But hidden in plain sight, they decided to keep in footage in this documentary.
And here's a clip.
And in 1973, they go to Bob Amenegger and Alan Sandler, two producers in Los Angeles, and they ask them to do a UFO documentary.
And Bob Amenegger is a total UFO skeptic, said, What do you mean this is for real?
And at that point, the security manager, Paul Shardle at Norton Air Force Base, said, What would you say if I told you an alien ship landed at Holman Air Force Base at six o'clock in the morning in May of 1971?
And we filmed it from three different vantage points two on the ground, one in a helicopter.
And we will allow you to use the film for your documentary.
So he puts this documentary.
And then what happens at the end of the documentary is they say, we can't use the film.
We can't allow, it's the Watergate.
It's bad timing.
We can't allow you to use the film.
And they pull the film.
And then I find out that there's eight seconds of the Holloman Air Force Base film in the film.
So Bob's my friend.
I phone up Bob.
There's eight seconds of film in there.
And he goes, well, yeah.
And I said, you told me they've pulled the film.
Oh, no, he said, it's background.
And I said, background?
What do you mean it's background?
And he said, it didn't show anything.
And what it is, is you see the hills of Holloman, and you see this object, this brilliantly lit object at six o'clock in the morning coming over the hills, but it's in a distance.
So you don't see it close up, and you don't see the alien when the alien gets out.
That's the classified part.
So they want you to know that Holloman happened, and they allowed them to use this, the eight seconds of the film, but the rest of the film, the classified part, was pulled.
Make of that what you will, but that is one compelling story.
So during the period of 1969 to 1971, MJ 12, representing the U.S. government, Made a deal with these creatures called EBEs or extraterrestrial biological entities named by Detlev Bronk.
Cattle Mutilations and Mind Control Programs00:11:09
He was an original MJ12 member and sixth president of Johns Hopkins University.
Johns Hopkins University.
The deal was that in exchange for technology they would provide to us, we agreed to ignore the abductions that were going on and suppress information on the cattle mutilations.
And to further illustrate this point, here's a 1988 episode of Gumby.
From your kind to develop a stronger breed of people, because on our planet, radiation damaged our DNA so that we are dying off to extinction.
We'll help you, but you know, we need help too.
What do you need?
The people on Earth are suffering from many kinds of pollution.
We need your advanced technology to help us develop a clean source of energy.
The EBEs assured MJ 12 that the abductions, usually lasting about two hours, Were merely the ongoing monitoring of developing civilizations.
And here John lists out the purposes for the abductions and what they turned out to be.
Number one, the insertion of a three millimeter spherical device through the nasal cavity of the abductee into the brain.
The device is used for the biological monitoring, tracking, and control of the abductee.
This is something touched on in several books by thousands of abductees, actually, which is interesting.
You know, looking at the work of John Mack, David Jacobs, Bud Hopkins, this would come up quite frequently that this rod, which had a very tiny ball on the end of it, was inserted into the nasal cavity way far up.
And then when extracted, that ball was gone.
What's also interesting to me is that it says to control the abductee, which makes me think that these gray beings, maybe perhaps not the other beings, but the gray ones specifically, couldn't mind control you maybe without it.
Number two, implementation of post hypnotic suggestion to carry out a specific activity during a specific time period, the actuation of which will occur within the next two to five years.
Well, there's that.
I mean, this was 1987.
That would make it 1992 at the latest.
Maybe they did, I don't know, carry out some specific activity that is unbeknownst to us that has perhaps little or no consequence to our daily lives.
I don't know.
But that seems speculatory at best.
Number three, termination of some people so that they could function as living sources for biological material and substances.
Okay.
Number four, termination of individuals who represent a threat to the continuation of their activity.
In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues?
Yes, personally.
I just want everyone to note that he's coming forward in fear of his life to put in perspective if they were really not scared about this information coming out, why would someone be intimidated like that?
Number five, affect genetic engineering experiments.
Number six, impregnation of human females and early termination of pregnancies to secure the crossbreed infants.
Seems like the craziest, but honestly, this is the most widely reported among abductees the genetic engineering that has taken place on board.
And most of the time has to do with what seems to be some type of hybridization program.
Again, this isn't stuff that I'm making up, it's stuff that I've read and that's.
Quite expansive in terms of the literature that's out there and the documentation of this.
Like this has been documented extensively, mainly through post hypnotic regression, because for some reason, apparently the people who've been abducted, they just, you know, their memories are wiped.
But for some reason, I guess these EBEs don't have access to the subconscious.
The impregnation thing, I mean, that, again, that comes up quite a bit.
Does this mean all extraterrestrials are doing this?
No.
Does this mean any of them are doing this?
No, but it does suggest it.
With extraordinary claims, I mean, you require extraordinary evidence.
And the only evidence that exists that's out there.
Today, currently, is for the most part, at best, anecdotal.
And let's be clear, that doesn't imply that I'm invalidating this anecdotal evidence, but it is someone's word against another.
What is interesting is that there are thousands of these someone who are saying essentially the same things.
And I think when that happens and you gain enough human intelligence testimony, I think you have to start looking at it more seriously.
And I think that's what some of the work of a lot of these researchers did, including.
You know, potentially here at John Lear.
Believe it, don't believe it.
We're going to keep reading.
I think this is really interesting.
I'm not saying that this is what's going on, by the way, folks.
All right.
So don't work yourselves up for this.
I would love to hear your opinion on this, whether you think it's true or not.
But I would encourage you to at least do some research on it because you'll find that in the research that I've done with multiple people who have, you know, great educational backgrounds and varying degrees of credibility, have talked about this very thing for a very long time.
It's kind of like the dark side of ufology and the UFO stuff.
You know, there's the UAP, the drone, all this, but then there's like a deeper, more nefarious section to ufology that he's touching on.
And that's, it can be disturbing for some to look down that road and others choose just to ignore it completely.
And that's totally fine.
So, the U.S. government was not initially aware of their far reaching consequences of their deal.
They were led to believe that the abductions were essentially benign.
And since they figured the abductions would probably go on anyway, whether they agreed to or not, they merely insisted that a current list of abductees be submitted on a periodic basis to MJ 12 and the National Security Council.
Does this sound incredible?
An actual list of abductees sent to the National Security Council?
Read on, because I have news for you.
All right, here we go into what I assume is some speculation.
I mean, this whole document might just be speculatory, but regardless.
The EBEs have a genetic disorder in that their digestive system is atrophied and non functional.
Some speculate that they were involved in some type of accident or nuclear war, or possibly on the backside of an evolutionary genetic curve, meaning they're like devolving.
In order to sustain themselves, they used an enzyme or hormonal secretion obtained from the tissue that they extract from humans and animals.
Note that cows and humans are genetically similar.
In the event of a national disaster, cow's blood can be used by humans.
We've talked about this before with the EBO document.
The secretions obtained are then mixed with hydrogen peroxide, applied on the skin by spreading or dipping parts of their bodies in the solution.
The body absorbs the solution, then secretes the waste back out through the skin.
This sounds familiar.
Obviously, this document came out way before the EBO document came out.
Suggesting that the pores on their skin were made to sort of secrete whatever it was.
But what he says here is the secretions are mixed with hydrogen peroxide to disinfect.
Like, why would that be necessary?
The EBO document said that they assumed that they drank liquids.
What John Lear is alluding to here is that instead they dipped parts of their body or spread this solution.
Now, how can you tell the difference between what you're consuming and what you're excreting, like your body?
For instance, it doesn't make sense.
That's like feeding ourselves through our own anuses.
Like it just doesn't seem, obviously, it doesn't seem delectable, but it also doesn't seem very logical.
Yeah, who knows?
So the cattle mutilations that were prevalent throughout the period from 1973 to 1983 and publicly noted through newspaper and magazine stories and included a documentary produced by Linda Howe for Denver CBS affiliate KMGH TV were for the collection of these tissues by the aliens.
The mutilations included genitals taken, wrecked.
Victims cored out to the colon, eyes, tongue, and throat all surgically removed with extreme precision.
In some cases, the incisions were made by cutting between the cells, a process that we are not yet capable of performing in the field.
That's really interesting.
Wow.
How is that even.
How can you even verify that?
In many of the mutilations, there was no blood found at all in the carcass, yet there was no vascular collapse of the internal organs.
This has been also noted in the human mutilations.
One of the first of which was Sergeant Jonathan P. Louette at the White Sands Missile Test Range in 1956, who was found three days after an Air Force major had witnessed his abduction by a disc shaped object at 0300 hours while on a search for missile debris downrange.
The following is a little explicit, folks.
Forewarned.
Plug up to the colon, eyes removed, and all blood removed with, again, no vascular collapse.
From some of the evidence, it is apparent that this surgery is accomplished in most cases while the victim, animal or human, is still alive.
The various parts of the body are taken to various underground laboratories, one of which is known to be near the small New Mexico town of Dulce.
This jointly occupied CIA alien facility has been described as enormous with huge tiled walls.
That go on forever, in quotes.
Witnesses have reported huge vats filled with amber liquid with parts of human bodies being stirred inside.
Now, this, folks, sounds like a hellish nightmare.
Let's just stop here for a second because I do want to acknowledge something that John Lear has never seen any of this stuff.
This is absolute speculatory information at best, but he's given.
Spielberg Documentaries and the Grand Deception00:07:58
Zero sources know that I don't assume that this is the truth.
I do find it interesting that there are connections to cattle mutilation, that there are military sites here that are named, military personnel, as well as, I mean, many factors that would indicate that something is going on, but none of which proves anything.
Before some of you, you know, log off being scared of this and like this is frightening you, know that this might not be.
The situation.
And when disinformation happens, which I've mentioned before, a lot of times the truth is told and a few little lies are sprinkled throughout, of which are probably the most unbelievable things.
And so, you know, with this stuff, I look for the things that stand out.
And I say to myself, it's either an exaggeration, a misinterpretation, or disinformation, I think.
Like a vat mixing it with human body parts.
To me, that sounds completely ludicrous.
I'll be honest.
Is it real?
You know, maybe, who knows?
But to me, that sounds like you would add something into a story to try and incite fear, instill fear in someone.
And so maybe that's him regurgitating information that he was given to make him fearful of, you know, whatever's going on.
I don't know.
Your guess is as good as mine.
We're guessing here.
After the initial agreement, Groom Lake.
One of this nation's most secret test centers was closed for a period of about a year, sometime between 1972 and 1974, and a huge underground facility was constructed for and with the help of the EBEs.
The bargained for technology was set in place but could only be operated by the EBEs themselves.
Needless to say, the advanced technology could not be used against the EBEs themselves, even if needed.
Now, that is very interesting.
This part I find extremely interesting because if you were an advanced civilization, the last thing you would want to do is give your most advanced technology to the most primitive life forms that you've ever encountered.
Instead, you're going to bargain some deal where they can play with your toys as long as you can supervise it.
And in exchange, yeah, you'll get access to whatever you were going to get access to, anyways.
But it seems like you're playing fair.
You know, this even kind of corresponds to some of the claims that Bob Lazar made, whereas when he went to S4, especially on one occasion when he was giving a tour, He had a look down sort of this hangar hallway and saw one of these, what he refers to as children, having a conversation with Air Force staff or the staff that was present.
And, you know, this thing was very, very short and seemed like a child.
And so it would be interesting to find out that they are indeed working with them.
But I suppose if you were working with them, it wouldn't be under our set of rules.
It would be under theirs.
During the period between 1979 and 1983, it became increasingly obvious to MJ12 that things were not going as planned.
It became known that many more people in the thousands were being abducted than were listed on the official abduction lists.
In addition, it became obvious that some, not all, but some of the nation's missing children had been used for secretions and other parts required by the aliens.
In 1979, there was an altercation of sorts at the Dulce Laboratory.
A special armed forces unit was called in to try and free a number of our people trapped in the facility who had become aware of what was really going on.
According to one source, 66 of the soldiers were killed.
And our people were not freed.
Okay.
What source?
You know, according to a source, anyone can say that.
By 1984, MJ12 must have been in stark terror at the mistake they had made in dealing with the EBEs.
They had subtly promoted close encounters of the third kind and ET to get the public used to odd looking aliens that were compassionate, benevolent, and very much our space brothers.
So again, he's stating here that, you know, Close Encounters and ET, both Spielberg movies, by the way, were psyops to prepare the public, the general public, to sort of become aware of these benevolent, weird, strange looking creatures.
It is interesting.
It is interesting as well that in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, J. Allen Hynek has a cameo and I think was probably used as a consultant during that movie.
And I mean, Spielberg's fascination with UFOs goes on to today.
He's currently, I think, working on another UFO movie or alien or UFO related movie that is slated for, I think, 2026.
MJ12 sold the EBEs to the public, and we're now faced with the fact that quite the opposite was true.
In addition, a plan was formulated in 1968 to make the public aware of the existence of aliens on Earth over the next 20 years, to be culminated with several documentaries to be released during 1985.
To the 1987 period of time.
These documentaries would explain the history and intentions of the EBEs.
The discovery of the grand deception put the entire plans, hopes, and dreams of MJ12 into utter confusion and panic.
Well, these documentaries are still coming out.
You know, there was the recent one, which was, I believe, was it called Encounters or it was on Netflix and it was Spielberg once again.
So, very interesting.
So, meeting at the Country Club, a remote lodge with a private golf course, comfortable sleeping and working quarters, and its own private airship built by and exclusively for members of MJ12.
It was a factional fight of what to do now.
Part of MJ12 wanted to confess the whole scheme and shambles it had become to the public, beg their forgiveness, and ask for their support.
The other part and majority of MJ12 argued that there was no way they could do that, that the situation was untenable, and there was no use in exciting the public with the horrible truth, and that the best plan was to continue the development of a weapon so that it could be used against the EBEs under the guise Of Strategic Defense Initiative, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the defense for inbound Russian nuclear missiles.
As these words are being written, Dr. Edward Teller, father of the H bomb, is personally in the test tunnels of the Nevada test site, driving his workers and associates, in the words of one, like a man possessed.
And well, he should, for Dr. Teller is a member of MJ 12, along with Dr. Kissinger, Admiral Bobby Inman, and possibly Admiral Poindexter, to name a few of the current.
MJ 12 members.
Now, before the grand deception was discovered, and according to a meticulous plan of metered release of information to the public, several documentaries and UFO tapes were made.
William Moore, a Burbank, California based UFO researcher who wrote The Roswell Incident, a book published in 1980 that detailed the crash, recovery, and subsequent cover up of a UFO with four alien bodies, has made a videotape of two newsmen interviewing a military officer associated with MJ 12.
The EBE Capture and Los Alamos Facility00:15:06
And the cover up, the recovery of a number of flying saucers, and the existence of a live alien, one of three aliens captured and designated or named EBE 1, EBE 2, and EBE 3.
Being held in a facility designated as YY2 at Los Alamos, New Mexico.
The only other facility of this type which is electromagnetically secure is at Edwards Air Force Base in Mojave, California.
The officer names as previously mentioned, plus a few others Harold Brown, Richard Helms, General Vernon Walters, JPL's Dr. Lou Allen, and Dr. Theodore Von Karman, to name a few of the current and past members of MJ 12.
The officer also relates the fact that EBEs claim to have created Christ.
Now, this did come up as well in the blue documents that were read allegedly by Bob Lazar during his briefing at S4.
Him and Gene Huff had made a project about this, and this was really, really fascinating to a lot of people.
Extremely classified document dealing with religion, and it's about that thing.
That were containers.
That's how supposedly the aliens look at us.
That religion was specifically created so we have some rules and regulations for the sole purpose of not damaging.
The containers.
Meaning?
Well, the souls or the bodies, whatever.
Meaning, like, we're containers for souls that they're going to use at some other point.
Right.
And that they had something to do with different prophets and biblical figures.
Yes.
Supposedly, Jesus and two other beings were genetically engineered.
They were implanted in people on earth in biblical times, and their births were closely monitored.
Now, just some little connections to that that my wife had brought up were.
In the Bible, they said that the star had followed Mary wherever she went, and you know that all UFO sightings always start out as people, well, gee, that looks like a bright star.
And well, in fact, they said in the Bible, the brightest star in the sky followed her where she went, and it just made little connections like that.
The EBEs have a type of recording device that has recorded all of Earth's history and can display it in a form of a hologram.
This hologram can be filmed, but because of the way holograms work, it does not come out very clear on movie or film.
The crucifixion of Christ on the Mount of Olives has allegedly been put on film to show the public.
The EBEs claim to have created Christ, which, in view of the grand deception, could be an effort to disrupt traditional values for undetermined reasons.
That's a big one to swallow there.
I'm not going to go down this hole because I know I do respect people's right to belief.
I do understand that some might take offense even at the speculatory nature of this being true.
And I do understand that this can be blasphemous to those who do believe.
But for the sake of research, you know, we are going to entertain these ideas throughout this podcast.
Another videotape allegedly in existence is an interview with an EBE.
Since EBEs communicate telepathically, an Air Force colonel serves as an interpreter.
Just before the recent stock market correction in October 1987, several newsmen, including Bill Moore, had been invited to Washington, D.C., to personally film the EBE in a similar type interview.
And distribute the film to the public.
Apparently, because of the correction in the market, it was felt the timing was not propitious.
In any case, it certainly seems like an odd method to inform the public of extraterrestrials, but it would be in keeping with the actions of a panicked organization who, at this point in time, doesn't know which way to turn.
I mean, you want to talk about a panicked organization, you know, just look at the people in charge right now of telling us what the hell's going on with these drone incursions.
Moore is also in possession of more Aquarius documents, a few pages of which leaked out several years ago.
And detailed the super secret NSA project had been denied by them until just recently.
In a letter to Senator John Glenn, NSA's Director of Policy Julia B. Wetzel wrote Apparently, there is or was an Air Force project with that name, Aquarius, which dealt with UFOs.
Coincidentally, there is also an NSA project by that name.
NSA's Project Aquarius deals specifically with the communications with aliens, the EBEs.
Within the Aquarius program was Project Snowbird, a project to test fly.
A recovered alien aircraft at Groom Lake, Nevada.
This project continues today at the location.
In the words of an individual who works at Groom Lake, our people are much better at taking things apart than they are at putting them back together.
So, wait, this is 1987.
This is before the world was introduced to Bob Azor.
So, that person he's referring to might very well be Bob.
Moore claims he has a contact with MJ 12, feels that they have been stringing him along, slipping him documents, and providing him leads, promising to go public with some of the information on extraterrestrials by the end.
1987.
Certain of Moore's statements led one to believe that Moore himself is a government agent working for MJ 12, not to be strung along, but string along ever hopeful ufologists that the truth is just around the corner.
He has done nothing but collect the most outrageous rumor mill stories that are floating around on the grapevine.
But, says Lear, Moore may be working with the government and only exposing parts of the truth, parts aimed to mislead the truth seekers.
Well, consider this.
Number one, Moore states emphatically that he is not a government agent.
Although, when Lee Graham, a Southern California based ufologist, was investigated by DIS, the Defense Investigative Service, for possession of classified documents received from Moore, Moore himself was not.
Moore states emphatically that the cattle mutilations of 73 to 83 were a hoax by Linda Moulton Howe, producer of Strange Harvest, to create a publicity for herself.
He cites the book Mute Evidence as the bottom line of the hoax.
Mute Evidence was a government sponsored book to explain the mutilations in conventional terms.
Okay.
Moore does seem like he's seeming like a disinfo guy, seeming spooky.
Little spooky vibes coming off Moore.
Number three, Moore states that the USAF Academy Physics book, Introductory Space Science, Volume 2, Chapter 13, entitled Unidentified Flying Objects, which describes four of the most commonly seen aliens, one of which is the EBE, was written by Lieutenant Colonel Edward R. Thurkelson and Major Donald B. Carpenter, Air Force personnel, who did not know what they were talking about.
And we were merely citing crackpot references.
He, Moore, states that the book was withdrawn to excise the chapter.
Excise the chapter.
If the government felt they were being forced to acknowledge the existence of aliens on Earth because of the overwhelming evidence, such as the October and November sightings in Whiteville, Virginia, and recently released books such as Night Siege by Hynek, and taking into consideration the grand deception and obviously hostile intentions of the EBEs, it might be expedient for MJ 12 to admit the EBEs.
But conceal the information on the mutilations and abductions.
If MJ12 and Moore were in some kind of agreement, then it would be beneficial to Moore to toe the party line.
For example, MJ12 would say, Here are some more genuine documents, but remember, no talking about the mutilations or abductions.
This would be beneficial to Moore as it would supply the evidence to support his theory that ETs exist, but deny the truths about ETs.
However, if Moore was indeed working for MJ12, he would follow the party line anyway, admitting the ETs, but poo pooing the mutilations and abductions.
If working alone, more might not even be aware of the grand deception.
That's something that I've pondered myself recently.
Looking into the abduction phenomenon, it is terrifying.
It is scary.
Some people, you know, would say that it isn't even happening.
And to them, I would say the people who I've spoken to seem to be legitimately psychologically affected by whatever it is they believe had happened to them.
There are thousands of people like this.
That have come forward over the years, denying that what they said happened actually happened is, I think, just plain mean.
I think you have to look into it more than that.
I don't want to be this type of person that says, I believe that this person believes that they were abducted.
Even though that is the case, I do believe that they believe they were abducted.
Looking at all the evidence and all the testimony leads me to believe that they were.
But that is, as mentioned here, I think not a conversation a lot of people are ready to have, especially in a time where we're still debating whether or not UFOs are real.
It's very hard to bring up the topic that, oh, they are real and they have pilots and the pilots have a deal with the government and the government knows about these abductions and the abductions are still taking place.
That is a big pill to swallow.
And so, although Lear here says that they don't want anybody knowing about the abductions, which is true, I also think.
What benefit does it provide anyone if you were to go public with these abductions?
You know, it would just cause mass panic.
I'm looking at this from a devil's advocate point of view, by the way.
If you were the US government, you would probably find a way to disseminate this information in the most subtle manner, in a way that doesn't completely upend the entire economy and, you know, religious beliefs of its citizens.
It's such a touchy subject that the last thing you want to do is say, oh, and they also take you apart and like study you and like, Inject you.
And so I understand their reluctance to do that.
I do understand that.
But I also understand people's willingness to come forward and say that these things are happening.
Time will tell.
It is possible that Moore will go ahead and release the video interview with the military officer around the first of the year, as he promised.
People in the UFO community promising information and not delivering?
No.
That can't be true.
Who would do such a thing?
Who would say that something's going to happen and then it doesn't?
No, I don't believe any prominent figure in the UFO community would ever do or say such a thing and not deliver.
From MJ12's point of view, the public would be exposed to the information without really having to believe it because Moore is essentially not as credible as a source, say the President of the United States.
After a few months of digestion and discussion, a more credible source could emerge with a statement that, yes, in fact, the interview was essentially factual.
The scenario would cushion somewhat the blow to the public.
If, however, Moore does not release the tape by, say, February 1, 1988, but comes instead with a story similar to the following.
Okay, first of all, strategically speaking, that would make sense that if you put out something, have, you know, let's say today, let's take this example and apply it to today's landscape of social media.
If you were to put out a video of a craft that is so freaking clear or an alien talking or whatever it is, so clear.
Most of the internet would deny that it's true.
They would blame AI, CGI, actors, whatever, whatever, whatever.
Maybe half, but probably less than half of the people would believe that this is true.
In the UFO community, by the way, in general, most people would just dismiss it.
If the president came out later and said, oh, that video was real, it would lessen the blow because everybody's seen it and digested it already and toyed with the idea, oh, what if this was real?
You know, and just like kind of sat with that.
It would lessen the effect.
That this would have, you know, in terms of an ontological shock.
That's a valid strat right there.
Release the information by an uncredible source and then confirm it by a credible source later.
Wow.
You know, if I look at what one of those things might be today, maybe Bob, maybe what Bob Lazar is saying, maybe the Immaculate Constellation sort of documents that came out recently, those photos that everybody says were fake.
What if those, you know, oh no, those were true?
I don't know.
That's a cool way to put out information and cushion the blow.
So now he's saying if he didn't do that, he would have a story similar to the following MJ12 has informed me that they are definitely planning a release of all information by October of '88.
I've seen the plan and have seen the guarantee that this will happen, so I've decided to withhold the release of my videotape at this time as it may cause some problems with MJ12's plans.
This would, in effect, buy more time for MJ12, and time is what they desperately need.
Okay, now you ask, why haven't I heard of any of this?
Well, who do you think you would hear it from?
Dan Rather, Tom Broca, Sam Donaldson?
Wrong.
These people just read the news, they don't find it.
They have ladies who call and interview witnesses and verify statements on stories coming over the wire.
It's not like Dan Rather would go down to Wytheville, Virginia, and dig into why there were 4,000 reported sightings in October and November of 1987.
No one, but no one, is going to risk their neck on such outlandish ideas, regardless of how many people report sightings of 900 foot objects running them off the road.
They had a report, the sheriff's department did, of a car being run off the road by a round circular aircraft.
Just north of Withfield and Graham's Forge.
The sheriff himself confirmed that it was credible people and they were unfamiliar with the previous sighting.
So, therefore, there was no reason for a copycat sighting.
Other sightings would follow, one by a state police dispatcher.
So, two weeks after the first UFO report, a skeptical Gordon and his old friend Roger Hall decided to check things out for themselves.
It was about 600 to 900 feet long, at least.
We're talking humongous craft.
And we base that on he and I watched it go over a couple houses, the range style houses.
And if it had failed, it would have obliterated them.
That's how big it was.
It was absolutely no sound to it.
It was flying probably under 1,000 feet and less than 1,000 feet away.
The craft, as it went away from us, we noticed the dome shape in the back had three picture-winded-like lights in the back.
In the case of the Whitefill sightings, dozens of vans with NASA lettered on the side failed to interest newsmen.
Carl Sagan, NASA, and the Weather Survey Lie00:02:41
And those that asked questions were informed that NASA was doing a weather survey.
Well, I'll tell you one person who would do these interviews and doesn't mind a potential blemish on his career.
And that person is George Knapp, because George Knapp is, in fact, the person who John Lear went to and broke the story of Bob Lazar.
And if it wasn't for that collaborative event that took place in 1989, I think the UFO landscape as we know it wouldn't be as far along as we've come.
Well, then, you ask, what about our scientists?
What about Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov?
Arthur C. Clarke.
Wouldn't they have known?
If Carl Sagan knows, then he's committing a great fraud through the solicitation of memberships in the Planetary Society to search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
Another charade into which the U.S. government dumps millions of dollars every year is the radio telescope of Arecibo, Puerto Rico, operated by Cornell University with guess who? Carl Sagan.
Cornell is ostensibly searching for signals from outer space, a sign maybe that someone is out there.
It's hard to believe that relatively intelligent astronomers like Sagan could be so ignorant.
Okay.
Shots fired.
What about Isaac Asimov?
Surely the most prolific science fiction writer of all time would have guessed by now that there must be an enormous cover up.
Maybe.
But if he knows, he's not saying.
Perhaps he's afraid that Foundation and Empire will turn out to be inaccurate.
What about Arthur C. Clarke?
Surely the most technically accurate of science fiction writers with very close ties to NASA would have at least a hint of what's really going on.
Again, if so, He's not talking.
In a recent science fiction survey, Clark estimates that contact with extraterrestrial life will not occur before the 21st century.
If the government won't tell us the truth and the major networks won't even give us serious consideration, then what is the big picture anyway?
Are the EBEs having done 100,000 or more abductions, possibly millions worldwide, built an untold number of secret underground bases, Groom Lake, Nevada, Sunspot, Daytel, Roswell, and Pinetown, New Mexico, just to name a few?
Getting ready to return to wherever they came from?
Or, from the obvious preparations, are we to assume that they are getting ready for a big move?
Or is the more sinister and more probable solution that the invasion is essentially complete and it's all over but the screaming?
A well planned invasion of Earth for its resources and benefits would not begin with mass landings of ray gun equipped aliens.
A properly planned and executed invasion by a civilization thousands and probably hundreds of thousands of years in advance of us.
Forming a Clear Picture from Classified Docs00:04:29
Would most likely be complete before even a handful of people, say 12, realized it was happening.
No fuss, no muss.
The best advice I can give you is this next time you see a flying saucer and are awed by its obvious display of technology and gorgeous lights and pure colors, run like hell.
Wow, what a read through, dude.
For those of you interested in the Majestic 12 documentations, And the alleged proof thereof, by the way, which the FBI completely said was bogus.
Numerous times they doubled down.
They're like, this is not real.
This is not real.
But, you know, MJ12 has come up quite a lot.
Like it was all the craze in the 80s and 90s.
I will probably eventually do a deep dive on Majestic 12, looking into its members, looking into, you know, when it was formed, how it was denied, the FOIA requests, et cetera.
If that's something you want to see, just let me know in the comments.
Might get started on that.
I think the 4chan whistleblower was asked about MJ12 and he said, Oh, that's old news, but he didn't deny its existence.
He just said that that was not something that they were currently, like, that was old news.
It was just not something that they dealt with, which, you know, in this landscape could just be another psyob.
Who knows?
I think it takes, you know, in my closing statements here, I'm going to digest a lot of this information.
It's hard for me to really comment on the exact thoughts that I formed.
But I will say, it takes a brave person to publicly confront, you know, such an establishment.
That bravery can be confused for insanity if this establishment is non existent.
But it only takes a person with an open mind to listen.
And that's exactly what we've been doing here.
You know, from the beginning, I've stated this channel isn't about doubling down on an opinion that I have.
And just received a text from Chris Bledsoe, by the way.
Very fitting.
Yeah, this channel isn't about doubling down on an opinion that I might have formed or that I may be forming.
This channel is about telling a story and letting those stories fill in some of these potential gaps that we've inherited.
You know, through listening to other stories.
And those connections will be made by you, they'll be made by me, and this discussion continues in the comments on Discord.
And together, hopefully, we'll form a more clear picture.
But I will never assume that the picture will be complete.
There are things that I'm just unaware of that I will potentially never be aware of.
But I am in favor of the sharing of information.
And that is why we read through documents like these.
They are not to propagate some fantasy propaganda, and they are certainly not to instill fear within my audience.
I enjoy this because this brings me some weird type of sustenance in creative thinking.
All right, I'll leave it at that.
I've got nothing left to offer you today.
2024, especially the last six months of 2024, is really where I applied myself to this channel.
And in those six months, we've gained about half the subscribers that we have already.
It has been an absolute honor to be able to host these videos for you, for you to listen to them and comment on them, and for you to even join the communities that I've set up and to be a part of them is such a great feeling.
I will not express my gratitude enough.
And so, pardon me for being redundant, but thank you again for everything you do.
And I wish you all the best in 2025.
Let's just keep this conversation going well and alive, regardless of what you believe, and encourage that curiosity among one another as we move forward into the new year.