Nelson Dellis recounts a vivid DMT session at The SCIF, visualizing as an Egyptian giant before a green eye humbled him, contrasting this with his more rewarding sober meditative states and six-time US memory championship success. He debates whether DMT is a drug or reality technology, linking star-map visions to the Betty and Barney Hill accounts while sharing cryptid expeditions in Nepal. Ultimately, these experiences shifted Dellis from atheistic nihilism to welcoming death as an adventure, suggesting consciousness acts as a self-sustaining loop where individual lives are merely ephemeral blips on time's mountain. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, Qwen/Qwen3-ForcedAligner-0.6B, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Giant Falcon Self-Discovery00:01:36
To the waiting room and had a really beautiful experience with what I felt was some entity communicating with me.
And I got to a point where I saw what I think was myself as a giant.
I was like a giant and I had the head of a falcon.
There was like an ancient, ancient feeling of knowledge and power.
And then as I look to my side, everything got dark.
I just see this big eye in front of me, like this floating eye.
Like it's everywhere I look, it's green, and I felt my body.
Curl in front of it.
How many times have you been to Everest?
I think this was my seventh time this year.
But the lore and the legend of this creature is everywhere.
In recent trips, you know, I'd hear stories from Sherpas of an interaction with a Yeti.
This creature attacked her, she was knocked out.
When she woke up, all the Yaks' heads were twisted off.
This camera angle picks up my balding head perfectly.
Good thing it's not on my side.
Not yet.
We actually got one behind the glass.
That'll definitely, there's no hiding it in The SCIF.
Welcome to The SCIF, Nelson Dallas.
Thank you, man.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
We got a lot to talk about today.
Yeah, so much.
Where do we start?
Let me start by introducing you to the audience in case you're not familiar.
Yeti Attack and Memory Shifts00:05:21
Nelson's been featured on.
Many of the investigations.
He is an official field agent here at Area 52 reporting for duty.
You know, he's been involved with the initial investigation, which was the remote viewing project we did.
We then did the OBE thing together.
I'm going to go into my session and I'm going to have an OBE float over to her room, see the number, and then afterwards validate it with her that we have the same number.
So, technically, this would be my fifth out of body experience, including the Two that I had last year, and we go to the debriefing room.
I see the girl come down the stairs and she's holding the paper, but I can see with my eyes closed.
But suddenly I could see through my eyes.
And now we're, you know, investigating some other things.
But before we get into all that, also Nelson has a YouTube channel where he shares a lot of his memory techniques.
Because if you don't know, Nelson is now the reigning six time US memory champion.
Feels good to hear that.
Yeah.
It's been a few years.
Yeah.
It's such a cool thing for you to still be able to conquer.
I mean, let's get into that real quick before we get into anything else, because I think for me, anyways, I'm very fascinated with your infatuation with memory.
It leaked over to my space a little bit because I, as well, you know, learned a lot of memory techniques from you.
But it is endlessly fascinating.
Can you talk us through perhaps this latest endeavor where you got back into the championship?
Yeah.
And I took on the title.
Yeah.
Because my last time, the last time I won was 2021.
That was my fifth title.
And I had been chasing that fifth one for a few years.
I had lost a couple of times and it was frustrating because I wanted to win this or get this title.
Well, it wasn't a title, it was just a record of the most wins ever, which was five.
The previous, there was a guy with four and I was tired with him.
So I was like, I got to, you know, and once I had started going for that, I felt like I had to go out on a win.
So, Because I had, you know, I wanted to have a lasting legacy.
I didn't want to just lose and lose and lose and then be like, I'm going to pull back.
So I won that one and I was very happy with it, very satisfying.
And I said, okay, I'm good.
But then I was still involved with the competitions, doing commentating and helping with the production.
And every year I'd kind of be like, oh, I'd love to see if I could be up there and still compete.
And then I was like, no, no, no.
You know, I did my story is good.
It's got a nice little bow in it.
But then for some reason this year, I just felt like it was time.
There was a lot that lined up and it felt right to get back in.
And I felt like I was going, I don't want to sound too cocky about it, but it wasn't about that.
It was like I felt I saw myself as the champion, like a vision.
I had it in me there.
And I was like, I should go and get it.
This is, it's super interesting because where your journey has taken you throughout your life.
You are now in a place that is totally different than you.
You're a different person than you were when you first started doing this memory thing.
My God.
Yeah.
You know, you've gone through so much internally as a person and physically, even like with the endurance stuff and the hair loss and the hair loss specifically.
I was going to bring that up.
So, I mean, recently you said there was like you envisioned this.
Do you think that the Monroe experience and the remote viewing saga and all of this plays into.
That vision and plays into you winning this?
Like, do you think that was a big part of it?
Yeah.
I mean, on one hand, you're right.
I mean, this has been a journey of mine for like 15 years.
And I look back on the 2011 winner.
That was my first championship win.
And yeah, I was so much younger, 13 years younger, different person.
The stuff that I went through this year, the Monroe Institute, some of my belief systems were totally different.
You know, I had the motivation to train and be a champion back then, but in a different way.
You know, I recognized hard work and said, okay, this is what I got to do if I train for this and push, blah, blah, blah.
I'm going to get to this point, you know.
This year was so different and partly because of the Monroe Institute experience.
Because it was, yes, I still had to train, of course, but there was like a deeper self belief where, I was almost just relying on what was to unfold.
And of course, I recognize, you know, things can happen.
Other people are training too.
I don't know what's going to happen.
I could lose, but at the same time, I knew what I was doing in terms of putting myself in the mix for this competition that that's what I had to do this year.
And I felt like I saw myself at the end or in a position to be at the end, you know?
And I also used some of the relaxation meditation techniques that I learned at the retreat.
In between the events at the championship.
Interesting, like Focus 10 and that type of thing.
Yeah.
Did you put on headphones and like would go into it?
Finding Dimes and Synchronicities00:04:09
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
I was especially right before the finals, final event, which is the double deck of cards.
It's the last three of us.
Yeah.
We got to memorize two decks of cards in five minutes.
And it's on stage.
It's super stressful because you make one mistake.
We go one by one reciting the cards.
We each memorize the same two decks.
And if you make a mistake, you're done.
Very stressful.
No matter how many times I've practiced it, and I have practiced it a lot, I can do it in my sleep.
But on stage, it's a different story.
Everybody who's gotten to that point can say the same thing.
But I went outside and put on like a five to 10 minute focus 10.
Wow.
And man, it was calming.
It also helped me manifest what was about to go down.
And it happened the way that I saw it, which was kind of validating, you know?
I remember the text that you were sending me.
And I remember also feeling that.
I remember texting you being like, yeah, you got this.
Like, you're going to win.
And you had some interesting synchronicities happen with the dimes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's been happening since.
Monroe was going to be a thing, not right at Monroe, but actually, do you want to explain what that is?
Sure.
So, I've had this thing in my life where I've always found dimes.
And I've, at first, I didn't think this was a thing, but I've actually asked around and people say, oh, it's a loved one, you know, dropped in a little thing.
Yeah.
It's like the pennies from heaven kind of thing.
Sure.
People see dimes as well.
And I hadn't heard that.
Most people I've talked to, that doesn't happen to them, but a select few have told me they've had similar experiences with dimes.
But what's funny is in my life, that's always kind of happened.
And I've always superstitiously said to myself, oh, if when I find a dime and I put it in my little piggy jar, whatever I have of dimes, I get a gig or like some financial thing comes my way.
But I never gave too much credence to it.
You always thought it was money related.
Yeah.
And, you know, all the times I didn't find dimes and I still got gigs, you know, like I don't think about that.
It was just a fun thing to think about.
I didn't really believe in it much.
But then this year, ramping up to the Monroe.
We talked about this before, but I was supposed to go with you.
That didn't happen.
I went on my own.
And since then, I've found a dime maybe every week and a half.
You've logged this.
Yeah, yeah.
I have a small little jar now and I logged them.
I also log all the other coins I find, which is not that many comparatively.
I think by now I found 20 dimes.
Wow.
And I ask everybody around me, like, how many dimes have you found?
And they're like, what?
Nine.
Yeah.
I don't think I've found a dime.
I can't remember.
And it's so funny.
We were in New York City with my family.
They came up to see me and my brother, biggest skeptic ever.
When I tell him these stories, he rolls his eyes like his eyes go all the way over there.
And he's like, man, if I looked for a dime in New York City, I'd find one.
I was like, okay, we're there for two days.
You look, look hard everywhere, see if you find one.
You got to find one on the street, right?
He couldn't find one, of course.
I found one the next day, right before we were about to have breakfast with him.
I was like, Look, I found one on the way.
Wow, and it was right at the moment where I was like, Oh, I wish I could find one right now because we're about to see Spencer, my brother.
I could show it to him, not that it would change his mind.
And there it was, almost like, Yeah, oh, funny.
So, anyways, all these synchronicities have been happening.
Um, even before the trip, uh, to compete at this championship, I found a dime at the airport.
You sent me a text of that, yeah, in the airport, right before you're like.
I'm going to win.
Like, I, I, let me look at the text specifically because you said something akin to I felt your confidence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Through the text.
I don't even send you all the pictures of them because I feel like it's annoying, you know?
Um, but I do take a picture of everyone.
This is the one from Christmas that you sent me.
That was just the other day.
The other day.
Um, but yeah, like most of the pictures I have from you are just, uh, are just pictures of you holding a dime.
Airport Vibes and Quiet Weeks00:04:07
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I remember texting you back, be like, you pull that one out of your pocket.
Stop it.
Um, because if you, You know, people listening, it's like, oh, yeah, I mean, I find a coin here and there.
It's just a dime.
But sometimes the context in which it's found and the thoughts that are happening in my head as I find it and the situation are just so perplexing to me that it's more than just, yeah, that's the one.
Yeah.
So you said, you sent me a picture of a dime.
This is, I recognize it's an airport carpet, dirty with weird texture.
And you go, I was waiting to find one today.
I knew I would right before my competition tomorrow.
I said, dude, I was sending vibes already.
And then the next text I got from you is I go, How did it go?
You linked me to the stream and then you sent me a picture, which I'll put up now, is you with the trophy.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's pretty cool.
That's crazy.
And do you have you found a correlation between, and I have my own personal answer for this, but I want to hear yours, between, The intention of meditating and the amount of synchronous experiences or just things that happen around you.
Do you find a correlation like the more you meditate, the more synchronicities happen, like these dimes?
Yeah, it may not necessarily be for me the meditation, it's more the belief.
Because, yes, after the Monroe, I was meditating a lot, I was working off that high.
Now I find myself slipping out of it a bit, and it's like, I don't have the time or I'm tired.
Poor kids, it's hard to manage a 45 minute quiet session.
Yeah.
Like, see you later, wife.
I'm going to go have some time to myself.
Yeah.
Like a quiet FaceTime between us is when only one of your kids is yelling.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
I feel so embarrassed every time.
No, it's fine.
Like for you, it's like, oh, no, it's only one yelling right now.
Yeah.
This is pretty good.
But yeah, it's, you know, I dropped off that a little bit.
But I'd say when I'm really focused on observing these synchronicities and welcoming them into my life and understanding this belief of something bigger than me, that's when they're everywhere.
Yeah.
And yeah, when I was at the Monroe and as that tapered off, they were, I think, I've mapped some of them out, all these synchronicities.
I have a whole document now and the dimes, and there's a huge peak there.
There's a peak of that time.
And then the weeks after.
And there was a time, maybe a few weeks ago, where I was so distracted with other things and it was like quiet.
I didn't find dimes.
There was like a little stretch there.
Yeah.
And then the one that you just showed me at the Christmas party, most recently, was me kind of getting back into it.
And there it was.
And there were all these other synchronicities that suddenly popped up because I was looking for them.
Because your attention shifted to this phenomenon or to this.
Reality that these things can happen.
It's almost as if when you believe or you know that this reality is possible and you really believe that fundamentally, that's when things start to unlock.
And last time you left here, we did a podcast.
And I think this was the last time we did something together, it was a post Monroe thing.
When you got here, you told me that you had a meditation and you had asked, Whatever this entity was that was giving you information during this deep meditation, you called it like the architect or something.
But you had asked it, like, how do I deal with sort of reintegrating after Monroe?
And it said, you told me, Chris has the answer.
The Architect and Deep Meditations00:08:02
That's right.
Yeah.
And when you sprung this upon me, I've felt like, whoa, that's a lot of pressure.
Like, I don't know how to answer that.
I wish I had an answer for you.
You know, I wish I could be like, oh, yeah, I knew you were going to ask this because.
My guides also told me, you know, I didn't know what to say.
And I remember, I remember before you left, I said, Oh, did you ever read The Alchemist?
Yeah.
And you had said, You had said something like, Oh, during high school, it was like near misses.
Like you never read it.
You always intended on reading it and it was always sort of there.
And I had it.
And I said, Do you want the book?
And at first you said, No, because it's your book.
I'll just buy it myself.
Yeah.
And then before you left, you said, You know what?
I will take that book because I do believe you offered it to me for a reason.
What happened after you read that book?
Yeah, I mean, it had the answers that I needed.
Specific answers.
Yeah.
And to be clear, because I said this on the last, where we talked about this briefly, I don't, that book was not out in high school.
So I even misremembered what the book was.
I think I was thinking of The Giver or something like that.
I don't know, some book that you're supposed to read in middle school.
So, because that book came out, I think I was in late high school, right, even early college.
But I definitely heard about it.
But never any interest in reading it.
I don't read those kinds of books.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it was fascinating.
I don't necessarily want to share the questions and the answers.
It's very personal, but the answer was in there.
Yeah.
Now, I wanted to say one thing because I'm sure there's people listening thinking, yeah, if you look for stuff, you're going to find something.
Yeah.
You know, that's how it works, but yeah, exactly.
That's how it works, right?
Um, and I choose to give them meaning, yeah, not incredible meaning.
It's not like you know, oftentimes the synchronicities I write down are as I'm writing something or texting something, I hear that same word, sure, you know, and sometimes it's very light, like it's the word.
Like I was telling my mom about a show that I saw a preview for Land Man with John Hamm and stuff, and how she started watching it, and as she said land.
I passed a sign that said, like, huge, like, land.
Yeah.
You know, stuff like that, you know, but does it mean anything?
It is synchronized.
Yeah.
It's, it is asynchronicity.
And my, my definition, yeah.
Yeah.
No, and my view on these happening a lot is that it's kind of like a guide to say, like, you're on the right path.
Sure.
And that you're focused on the right things.
Right.
And even if it's just made up in my head, I think it, it serves me well.
And it, yeah.
It aligns me better with what I'm trying to do in life.
So, where's the fault in that?
Right.
Like, absolutely.
I'm totally fine to believe in something like that because it elevates everything I'm doing.
I think so.
I think, I think, I think you have nothing to gain by being skeptical and everything to gain by believing it.
Yeah.
And because, you know, I'm not saying, oh, by doing this, you have to follow this dogma and you have to, you know, do this ritual every day.
Like, there's nothing involved in that process other than just noticing magical shit.
Yeah.
You know, so.
I love that.
And for everybody else being like, oh, there's no meaning and it's just a coincidence and it's all this, it's like, cool.
So, you know, what does that help you?
Right.
You know, because if it does, then great.
If rationalizing these things brings you some type of inner contentment and joy, awesome.
It doesn't for me.
I do enjoy rationalizing them, but only because I want to see magic, right?
So I have to break it down to see if it's possible.
And just sometimes you have to let go.
Sometimes you got to let go and just kind of see where it takes you, be open to it.
And like in that book, The Alchemist, which is a great book, it's almost as if when you're aware of it, it opens itself to you.
Correct.
Yeah.
More and more.
It kind of rewards you for seeing it.
It's like the universal quantum consciousness is like, thank you for noticing.
Here's a gift.
Yeah.
You know, and for anyone out there saying, you know, is this real?
Is this not real?
Look at anyone you've ever looked up to or any person that has gained some modicum of success in their life and ask them about this stuff.
And there's a great chance, I'm not probably not 100%, but there's a great chance that a lot of people will say, no, there were signs and I listened to those signs or my heart guided me.
That's interesting.
Correct.
And so, you know, perhaps there is a correlation scientifically to all of this or statistically.
You know, that's very hard to prove, but I think that's the beautiful part of it is that maybe it isn't meant to be proven.
Maybe it is just a belief thing.
Yeah.
And leave it at that.
And you don't want to believe it.
That's fine.
Yeah.
You know, but it doesn't hurt anyone to want to believe it or to believe it.
Like you don't, there's no extra process.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I think it has added a lot more joy and fun to my days.
Like when I see a stupid coincidence like that or synchronicity, however you want to term it, it's like I feel like something's along the ride with me and it makes me just chuckle to myself, you know?
And I feel like I'm much more positive person because of these little things that I notice.
And I feel like I'm not alone, you know, in this journey with myself.
Yeah.
That's cool, man.
I think it's great.
I mean, I've had my own, I've talked about, you know, the 11 11 coming after Monroe wouldn't stop.
And then had this culmination moment at, you know, going to Washington for this UAP thing, which was wild.
Yeah.
And everything I looked into with 11 11 showed me that it represents change, right?
It represents like a great change is coming.
And I was like, okay, what change?
You know, what change?
And when I got that last message from Jesse, being like, we should go to DC, and I sent him the text of like the flights, and it was 11, 11 on the 11th month, the 11th day, it was like 11, like everything was 11 11 11, 11.
Now, in retrospect, after doing that, the amount of people I've met at that and what has come from it, the change in my subscriber base, everything shifted seismically for the positive.
And I think it was because of that.
I think that was a dramatic fork in the road for my career, at least, potentially my whole life.
And so I'm grateful that I noticed that sign.
Had I not noticed that sign, you would never have taken that.
I think that had a dramatic fork in the road for my career, at least, potentially my whole life.
Had I not noticed that sign, you would never have taken that flight.
This is the big change.
Now, in retrospect, after doing that, the amount of people I've met at that and what has come from it, the change in my subscriber base, in my everything, everything shifted like seismically and for the positive.
And I think it was because of that.
And so I'm grateful that I noticed that sign.
Yeah.
I don't know what would have happened.
Maybe something great would have happened on the other end.
Sure.
But this did happen.
So, yeah.
I haven't figured out.
I feel like the dime thing for me specifically is like your 11 11.
You just haven't found it yet.
I haven't figured out what it's for yet.
I mean, you won the championship.
That's true.
But there's still, there's still, you feel something else.
And I don't, I feel a sense that that wasn't what it was for along the way.
But, I've been playing around.
Like, I've started to think that it's maybe a way to communicate with whatever is placing them there.
Interesting.
Or getting them there and for getting me to find them.
So I asked it a question the other day.
It, the universe.
That's their pronouns, right?
They.
They.
What they asked it a question and said, you know, give me a dime.
Show me a sign.
Give me a dime in 24 hours if this is the, if this is a yes, you know?
I didn't find anything.
Rite of Passage Communication00:15:15
Okay.
So I don't know.
I'm playing around with seeing if there's some kind of system here.
Yeah.
Because I haven't been paying attention to like questions I've been asking myself or things I've been thinking when I found them.
But maybe there is some pattern, you know?
Yeah.
Well, the stones in The Alchemist.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
Huh.
You know, because, and he seldom asks them questions.
Yeah.
Because sometimes he doesn't like the answer, sometimes he doesn't want to know the answer, sometimes he's forcing it.
Yeah.
So it has to be right.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Either way, it's a fun little self side quest that will reveal itself in its time.
Probably, maybe I'm trying too hard sometimes, you know, to figure it out and it'll just unfold, just like you weren't looking for 11 11.
Yep.
So, all right.
This brings me, we'll put a nice ribbon on the synchronicity stuff for now.
And I do want to get into what we did last night.
Nelson and I became psychonauts a little bit last night, and we did DMT, dimethyltryptamine.
Okay.
Before I get into this, I don't promote the use of DMT or any other drug.
I do not encourage you to try it.
This was for educational and scientific purposes, it was for research.
We did it in a safe environment.
And everything was handled very respectfully and professionally.
But that being said, that was tripping balls, bro.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Do you want to start it off?
Sure.
I'll also start by saying I don't condone doing drugs.
I mean, you can make your own choices.
All right.
But I've never in my life really been one who wants to do drugs.
I've dabbled with weed.
If it's offered, you know, I'll take a hit, blah, blah, blah.
But I've never actively gone and found a dealer and said, I need to have weed in my house.
Like, that's fine.
I mean, I appreciate it.
I love it.
It feels great.
It's just, I'm working on other things.
It doesn't come across my life.
Anyways, but this psychedelics has kind of been on my radar in the last year or so.
I got the opportunity to try mushrooms earlier this year.
That was my first dive into that and had a really profound experience.
And it was kind of a stepping stone because ultimately I wanted to try DMT and see what that was about.
I mean, you hit a pretty heroic dose last we spoke.
You're like, you've never tried shrooms before.
And then you're like, I don't know, it was only like three grams.
I'm like, dude, I would do like half a gram.
Well, I wanted to do something substantial.
I was told that that wasn't the hero dose yet.
Yeah, but you're told that by like some type of hero.
Like that is probably an insane amount for anyone dabbling.
But, and here's the other thing I'm not trying to do this to get like a high.
I was trying to.
Look, what was behind the veil, you know, if anything.
And same with the DMT.
That was ultimately where I wanted to get to.
And I've heard some crazy stories, listened to many podcasts, read many books about it at this point.
But it also felt a bit scary.
It's like before being interested in psychedelics, it all sounded like hard drugs.
Like, oh my God, what's going to happen to me if I open myself to that?
But I'm seeing it as a door that I want to open up and look inside, you know, and see what's there and compare it to other experiences that I've had the Monroe Institute, the remote viewing, memory stuff, and see what it all means like in my head, where it lays in this landscape of human experiences or non human experiences.
So I had a friend who I'd love to introduce to you at some point.
He'd be great to have on the show.
Knows a lot about consciousness and DMT, and he helps kind of connect the dots.
The shaman.
I call him shamanic energy.
My personal shaman.
Yeah.
He's been awesome.
And yeah, he managed to point me in the direction to procure some of this substance.
And I wanted to do it with you.
And here we are.
Yeah.
So this was, first of all, we had a pen.
If you guys want to see, The full experience.
We pretty much documented the entire thing.
It'll be available for the interns on membership.
You can join below or Patreon.
And we put a weekly vlog over there.
So you guys can check it out.
It's five bucks a month.
You get access to all this stuff.
But it's something I can't upload on YouTube because it really does go through sort of our process.
And my brother even came over to deliver a laser at one point because I was like, well, we got to try this like Danny Gohler.
Sort of laser experiment that I've been hearing about, the discovery.
And so he brought that over.
He got involved and he's always been, you know, a bit of a psychonaut as well and dabbling quite heavily in psilocybin and, you know, does have a reverence for it, like myself.
I've had a lot of bad trips in the past, which is why I had such a strong reluctance and anxiety before.
Now, you brought this pen, it was a pen, so it's in the vape form.
And because of that, it is like low dose, and you can ease into the high.
You can, you know, you take a hit, you hold it in for 30 seconds, you wait, you take another one, you do this for like half an hour.
And eventually you scale up, and then you'll sort of blast off into like this waiting room, which, you know, we'll get into.
And then after that, if you choose to, you can go through that and completely disembody yourself and, you know, go into an alternate realm.
We had our first experience.
We each had pretty profound things happen during that first one.
I didn't, in retrospect, get to the waiting room in the first one because when I got there the second time, I was like, oh shit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Terrifying.
Yeah.
You know, but before we did all this, we meditated for 45 minutes.
Yeah.
That made a huge difference.
I think so too.
Yeah.
It dampened the anxiety.
And the excitement, even you know, you got here.
I'd prepared this whole office to be moody.
We had some music going, you know, sitar and drones.
Yeah, exactly.
It's awesome.
Yeah, vibey, very vibey, very safe.
Yeah.
And so I was really trying to make this space conducive to a proper good trip.
And I think I did that.
We were, we had water, we had our journals.
We, after the meditation, we wrote down our intentions, right?
Which I think was important.
We also wrote down a few numbers to see if we could psychically, telepathically connect during these trips.
And again, you can check all that out.
Yeah.
But then we had our experiences.
Yeah.
Do you want to, do you want to like just sort of share a general idea of your trip?
Yeah.
And to preface what I'm about to say, I did try, I think, free basing is the term with an herb infused DMT.
Through pipe, um, in the past, yeah, like a month and a half ago by myself, yeah.
Um, and I'm not a smoker, so like it was harsh, I coughed a lot, so I don't think I kept much of it down.
So the experience was mild, even though it like hurt, um, to do it, so I didn't love it, but I saw some very interesting things I was doing outside.
The stars like moved and connect, it was wild, um, but it was very temporary, and I was like, I thought it would go deeper, so I was instructed to try the vape version because I'd have more control, it'd be smoother, um.
And yeah, so that's what I brought to you.
In terms of the experience this time, I think I got a lot further.
I didn't break through, break through, as they say, into this other reality.
But I got to the waiting room, I shot to the waiting room and had a really beautiful experience with what I felt was some entity communicating with me.
Yeah, female entity.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was so interesting because it was playful and it was very sexual too.
Yeah.
And colorful.
Yeah.
And there was a lot of synchronicities kind of baked into the experience with the music and where we were and what was happening, what I was realizing that it just made this whole experience, at least that first time, seem so much bigger than what I ever expected.
And part of me was like, I wanted to go to the other side and see what's over there.
But I realized after a while, in this up and down of taking hits and kind of staying in the waiting room, that this being entity was.
Luring me in kind of gently, you know, for a reason, and that this is what I was going to experience this time.
Yeah.
You know, and she, cause she eventually disappeared, even though I kept hitting.
And I was like, okay, I think that's her saying, that's, that was the intro, buddy.
Right.
You know, come back for more another time.
Right.
Or that's it.
That's our encounter for life.
And now you know something that you didn't before.
Very profound.
How about you?
Tell me about your first.
Yeah.
I mean, I did not make it to the waiting room the first time.
And I realized that because of what happened on the second time.
So, we did two sessions an hour apart because you do have to wait because you grow some type of tolerance for it during that hour.
I am a little hungover today.
I will say that.
Like, my senses are a little, little foggy.
Yeah.
And I did have a slight headache.
It did feel, which I don't enjoy.
Yeah.
But I think that was because of the second.
Yeah.
If we had.
I did feel a little bit during the first as well.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
There's a residual feeling of.
It's familiar because if you do.
If you've ever done psilocybin.
You know, that coming down phase that kind of like lingers for a while, even though you're not, you know, spaced out or like seeing anything crazy, you're still kind of euphoric and that's that sense is still there.
But yeah, so I did this.
I was very apprehensive about this and I vocalized that to you a few times.
I was very nervous because I did, I've had some terrible experiences.
I felt bad.
I was like, are you sure you want me to?
I feel like I want you to.
No, it was like almost like a rite of passage for me.
You know, I haven't.
I've been sober from, you know, weed for almost a year now and, you know, vape for more than a year and alcohol almost a year.
So it's like been, it's been a good cleansing journey for me.
And I'm someone who in the past went heavy on a lot of things and experimented with pretty much everything in my youth and got into some crazy places, but it was never for the right reasons.
It was always for.
This is a message from.
It's my split flap.
I forgot to turn that off.
It randomly updates like my subscriber stuff.
But yeah, it was always recreational.
And it was always seen as like, I would always go into it as like, whoa, this is going to be fun and cool and rather than anything profound.
So this was for me the very first time that I've ever.
Done anything that was deeper than just some ego trip.
More intense.
Yeah.
Less desire for it to be fun.
Like more like, oh, there's a mission.
Or for like a high.
Yeah, exactly.
And so going into that, after the meditation, it did help me.
And then after the first like couple hits, I started realizing the euphoria and the familiar body buzz that you get.
Similar, not dissimilar, and I'm going to make a lot of connections here to meditating out of body, but not dissimilar to the pre OBE phase where you're not quite phasing in and out of your body yet, but you do feel a general sense of vibratory senses going around you.
I felt myself kind of swaying like this and up and down, like almost on a wave, but I wasn't moving, I was stable.
And so that's where I was like, okay, this I understand.
This I've been here before.
So it made me feel more comfortable.
As I kept hitting, I, you know, I kept expecting some like crazy fractal thing to happen.
It was, it was very subtle at first.
And as I closed my eyes, now this is the part that I don't know if this was my like imaginal sense or if it was my trip that was guiding me, but I kept seeing, you know, images of like from above.
It was very, very strange.
It had depth.
And that's something I keep coming back to is that every hit I took added depth.
Depth, it added like a 3D ness.
Yeah, because didn't you say at one point it was like a flat?
If I opened my eyes, kind of.
Okay.
If I opened my eyes, everything felt like two dimensional, like it was all in the same plane.
But when I closed my eyes, like every hit I took, it was like expanding that depth.
And I got to a point where I saw what I think was myself as a giant.
I was like a giant and I had the head of a falcon and I was like Eagle.
I think you said Eagle.
It was Eagle or Falcon.
It was like a golden beak and a black head.
And I was very tall, and I was in Egypt, and I was like in Egyptian garb.
The pyramids were very small compared to me, but I don't know if that's because I was in the air, but I felt I was still tall, even though I might have been in the air.
Were your robes to the floor, though?
I didn't have robes.
No, I had like, well, I had like between my like a loin.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And I was like, yeah, big black body.
It was weird.
And then as I look to my side, everything got dark.
And I was holding this big golden buckle with like an Egyptian symbol on it.
It was like an oval sort of buckle with like intricate.
And I look over here, and as far as the eye can see, there are people like me, but different, different heads, different whatever.
And over here, and they all had their own buckle.
And we were connecting them somehow to create some type of.
Manufacturing some type of mechanism.
Golden Buckle in Darkness00:03:17
And then as I hit it, it kept like getting more intense.
And then at one point, I just see this big eye in front of me, like this floating eye.
Like it's everywhere I look, it's green.
And it reminded me of like the eye of Sauron, the green, right?
And it was right there in front of me.
And I felt, and I remember I was, again, check out the Patreon, but I was giggling a lot.
I kept giggling because there was something.
There was a realization that all of this is so silly.
And I thought that was the funniest joke.
That, like, I can't believe, like, this is so beneath me.
Not me, but this being that I was inhabiting.
Yeah, before you went on this trip or whatever.
Yeah, like this being that I am in this vision.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
Yeah.
That this experience was beneath it.
And that's why I was giggling.
Okay.
Like, this is all just so petty.
Yeah.
Like, what are you doing?
Of course this exists.
Like, and I'm like, oh, chasing.
It's like, yeah, because this exists.
We know that.
And so there was this real feeling of something ancient within me that I was inhabiting, or something.
There was an ancient, ancient feeling of knowledge and power.
And all of this was just so little to me.
And I was giggling because I was laughing.
I was like, this is hilarious.
Until the very end, where this big eye appeared and I felt my body curl in front of it.
Like, I felt like I was being.
Like, I could not stop it.
I was like, whoa.
And, like, in my head, I was hunched over in half, bowing to like this omnipotence.
This, I think you said, like, folded in half.
Yeah.
I was like, just folded, you know?
And I felt humbled that although I felt all this power and all of this control and this, like, looking down on this experience and looking down on like all these things that I'm trying to accomplish in my life, like, it was just, Like, I was just like, this is also small.
Like, what do you, you know, that this exists?
What are you even looking for?
And then when this eye came up, I was like, whoa, had to bow to that, could not stop it.
And it humbled me incredibly.
Like, knowing all this exists, there's still that.
Yeah.
And that's when I decided to stop and pull out.
So it was a really profound, yeah.
It was a profound lesson, cool, because I felt like it was like a VR almost, like I was in an avatar and got to experience some type of incredible sense of power and importance and nobility and ancientness.
I felt that.
And it made me laugh at my human life quite a bit.
But I didn't break through.
It was just all, again, is this imagination?
I don't know.
And you didn't see any fractals or geometry, right?
I did.
Throughout, like a little bit, they were faint, but they weren't as real as the second time.
Faint Fractals and Near Death00:12:10
They were in the background.
They were kind of like almost the fabric of what I was looking at.
I see.
Was made of those fractals.
Yeah.
Cool.
It's still a powerful message.
Yeah.
It's so interesting.
Like, even the thing I went through, I feel like you're going to kind of see what is relevant to you.
These themes that keep coming up in your life, probably like the ancient thing.
Yeah.
You've talked about that a lot.
Mm hmm.
That's been important to you across all these experiences.
Whereas for me, you know, like I get it and it makes sense and I agree, but I've had other things that are themes, you know, and those that like grow and vibrate and come to fruition in my experiences.
As you know, it's so interesting how it like just amplifies what you're hooks onto what you're going through or your deep kind of concerns or feelings about things that you may not even be aware of are, you know?
Yeah.
And then, So we took a break.
Sure.
Should we do that?
No, we took a break before.
Okay.
I'm not taking a break now.
Maybe a bathroom break?
I don't know.
No.
Take a break later.
The SCIF, you're not allowed out, right?
No.
Until it's done.
Yeah.
The doors are locked.
Shit.
Okay.
Who's watching?
They're all watching.
Can I get my phone call?
The phones don't work in here.
Uh oh.
We took a break and I called my brother over because I was like, let's try the laser thing now that we feel comfortable.
And if you're not familiar, I'll leave the link below.
There's a trailer called.
For a documentary coming out called The Discovery by a guy named Danny Gohler.
And it is about looking into this type of laser while on DMT, you then realize that there's code.
You can see numbers or what look like symbols.
And those symbols have spatial awareness and permanence, they stay there.
So if you move the laser, it reveals those symbols.
And those symbols are there's depth.
Now, we looked at the laser sober.
Ish.
And we could still perceive depth into the laser almost like a magic eye.
Yeah.
So I understand that, but there was nothing to see there.
Yeah.
Anyways.
Yeah.
At first.
But yeah, he brought that over and we set it up just in case, you know, we weren't even sure if we really wanted to go.
Yep.
But we kind of felt like maybe there's a little more we could give to the experience.
Yeah.
And then Manny got in the mix.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Green.
Yes.
He, he, uh, I convinced him to try it because he's been very curious about it, but he's very scared because he also knows the dark side of these things.
And I told him there's nothing to fear.
It was mild, it was not that bad.
And so he went in, hit a haul, looked at me and said, This is fine.
Hit another one, another one, another one, another one.
20 hauls in.
I'm just like chilling.
I look back at him and he's just smiling at me.
He's done.
And he goes, Whoa, did it hit you like a truck?
And I go, No.
And he goes, It hit me like a truck.
And I'm like, What do you mean?
He's like, You let go.
He's like, I got to a place where I was hanging on to a dragon and it was flying through.
It was made of space of stars and it was flying.
I was hanging on.
And he had his eyes closed in his mind because this dragon was just rushing through.
You know, and I was like, what?
Yeah.
And he didn't want to say how terrifying it was because he didn't want to scare me.
I think so.
Yeah.
He knows you.
So then we went into it.
Yeah.
And I took like four hits this time, big ones and really like monster ones.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden, I felt a familiar, terrifying feeling of phasing through my body.
And this is where, when I realized, well, I realized this after, but it is, Exactly, almost exactly, like having an out of body experience.
It is a near death experience.
And I think that's what happens without a body.
I think it's the same thing.
I think we're all talking about the same thing.
You feel yourself phasing, you feel out of sync with your physical, like you're floating around inside your physical, and that you could just get out.
I think one more hit would have got me out of my body.
Because it was so familiar.
Yeah.
Terrifying, as terrifying as every out of body experience that I've had, where I am completely out of my element.
I feel like maybe I'm dying.
There's like a, it's just like anything you can imagine will happen in this state.
Anything you manifest will instantly happen, good or bad.
You want to fly?
You can fly.
You want to see shadow people with devil faces?
Guess what?
That's what you're getting now because you thought about it.
And it's like this instant manifestation realm that can happen out of body and that can happen during this trip.
Yeah.
I saw fractals.
I was in a tunnel filled with like concentric eyeballs.
And like it was all the visuals, you know, that people describe or like show you in these DMT trip things, like these magic eye type.
They're like, it doesn't really give it any accuracy.
Yes, it does.
That's exactly what it is.
Don't think it, okay, there's depth to it and dimension, but it's that.
It's this.
Yeah, they do a good job.
Yeah.
And they make visuals of it.
Yeah, that's kind of what it was.
Yeah.
So I got out of that feeling, you know, rather shaken up by the experience.
It made me want to do, it made me want to meditate thoroughly and achieve that same experience sober like I did.
Yeah.
The last thing I'll say is that, you know, when I mentioned my out of body experience, one of the biggest recurring comments after doing Monroe was, bro, if you think that's crazy, try DMT.
And my answer to that is if you think DMT is crazy, try doing it sober.
Yeah.
Because it is massively more rewarding.
And it's essentially the same thing, but safer.
Yeah.
I mean, less work involved.
Yeah.
Less.
Yeah.
It's clearer, but that's what makes it so rewarding, right?
Less work, but less control.
That too.
As well.
Like with DMT, you're kind of like, you're forcing it and it's kind of random and scary.
Yeah.
Whereas without a body, there's intent.
And there's meaning, but physically, and like that phasing feels the same.
It is, I believe, the same experience that you're having.
So I was happy to find that out that like it validated my OBE, you know, that, oh, that was real what you had.
But it was self induced in broad daylight while you were awake, you know, which is so much cooler to me.
Yeah.
And you can do it whenever you want, essentially.
And I'm sure as you practice, More meditation, you could get even better at that.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely felt a similar familiar feeling to some of the experiences I've had meditating and at the Monroe Institute.
There were some things that happened in the DMT space that I have yet to see in any of my other experiences, I'll be honest there, but it didn't seem so crazy that I think I could, you know, and I think I could create it myself without that.
Maybe not that intensely so quickly, but like, what am I after here?
You know, I want to see what's on the other side.
And if I can do that sober through my own means, which I love, obviously, as a memory champion, like I love that I can train my memory to do these things.
Yes.
I love the idea that I could train my mind to get to a place like that.
Yes.
Through dedication and practice, that to me is super rewarding.
Same.
It adds to the whole experience.
Yeah, we're both, I think, cut from the same competitive cloth.
We both have a natural urge to compete and to want to better ourselves to some extent and better, and just not only better ourselves, but like see things as benchmarks and try to beat that.
Like that's just a natural thing I think that we both kind of have.
And, you know, when you apply that to your personal health, your mental health, your physical health, I mean, you can be rewarded.
You know, by things that are much more meaningful than, you know, a paycheck or anything else.
Like you get deep, deep meaning and reward for that.
So I also just do want to say that I'm not poo pooing anybody who chooses to do these drugs.
I mean, I think it's beautiful and magical that these compounds exist in the world, and that if we ingest them, something happens within us.
I think that's so interesting and something that needs to be looked at and studied and explored more.
I think it's up to the person, you know, what you're after and knowing what's available.
Sure.
Yeah, I think it's great.
I think it's great that it exists.
And you said something to me that you'd quoted right before.
You said, Don't look at this as a drug, look at it as a technology.
Yeah, I heard that from Andrew Gallimore, who's very well versed in the psychedelic space, has some amazing books.
Highly recommend checking out podcasts or books by him.
But yeah, he said that.
And yeah, I feel like, and then there's still, he does a lot of research with DMT and that technology and how to access it and explore it deeper and for longer periods of time.
It's cool what he's doing.
I'm glad that I did it.
I'm glad that we did it together.
It was nice to be around someone who I trusted and, you know, who I'm experiencing this journey with.
So that was nice.
That being said, for me, like I could do it again, maybe in the future.
I could see myself maybe trying it again.
But I don't, now that I've seen it, I'm disenchanted by it personally, only because of the previous experiences that I've had without it.
And maybe that's because I didn't hit like a breakthrough.
Yeah.
But yeah, I still feel like leaving my body was more than this.
Yeah.
A little bit more.
And I feel like I could have gotten there with another, you know.
But yeah, very fun.
I'm glad we did it.
It was profound.
For me, not necessarily life changing, but definitely added to my life experience and, you know, gave me some much needed knowledge, you know, for this journey.
Yeah.
I still want to try to go to the other side at some point.
Yeah.
I'm not dying to do it tomorrow.
Yeah.
I think it needs some space for me to, especially process what I experienced, especially that first time.
The second time was good, but it just felt like a lot heavier and a little less direction than the first one.
I'm so intrigued by the entity, this lady that I saw.
Yeah.
She's like a Shiva.
Yeah, man.
She was, it's hard to even say she because it was just like a collection of.
It was feminine energy.
Yeah.
But it wasn't like a body.
Yeah.
It was just like shapes and she kind of had like a nose at times and beautiful eye, an eye.
But, like, she was like, luring me up, man.
Tantalizing.
I think I go write like a sex novel on it.
It was so weird.
I felt embarrassed because it's like, I'm next to you and I'm like, in a weird way.
I'm kink shaming you.
Yeah.
It was perfect.
Good luck finding that category on Pornhub.
I'd be like, Leah, I'd like you to dress up like a fractal with the head of an elephant.
Yeah.
Paint your six arms.
Multicolor.
Yeti Stories from Nepal Sherpas00:07:23
Yeah.
Can you wear like a bunch of googly eyes on your face?
Perfect.
That's the spot.
All right.
I mean, okay, we covered the DMT.
We covered a little bit of OBE.
Yeah.
We talked, we touched on remote viewing.
But one thing I'd like to bring up is the expeditions that you've been having.
And maybe this is a good time to bring up some questions.
So, as you know, as our channel continues to grow, we continue to add these lovely perks to the members and the interns, as we call them here at Area 52.
And one of those perks is to be able to ask our guests a question or the opportunity to ask our guests a question.
So we've set up a few here and we're going to get into these.
They're going to show up on the.
They'll show up on a split flat behind me.
How cool is that?
That's super cool.
It's like we're playing a game show here.
That's right.
Oh, cool.
Hex0811 asks, When did your interests in cryptids begin?
Oof.
Man, I remember in fourth grade going to the library and checking out books and finding ones on UFOs and Loch Ness Monster and other beings.
Yeah, I don't know necessarily Bigfoot or Sasquatch or Yeti or anything, but definitely Loch Ness Monster.
I lived in England at the time.
I was fascinated by that and aliens.
So I'd say maybe there at a young age.
The Bigfoot slash Yeti stuff in recent years, just because I'm constantly in areas where these stories come from.
The Yeti from Nepal and the Himalayas.
How many times have you been to Everest?
I think this was my seventh time this year.
Wow.
Yeah.
And that region, always to Everest itself.
But the lore and the legend of this creature is everywhere.
And we'll come back to that.
But then Bigfoot, even out where I live, which is not too far from you, upstate New York, is where Bigfoot lives in the Adirondacks, that area, Whitehall, New York.
And then you got, I guess the indigenous people might call it a Sasquatch.
Yeah, Western Canada.
Or is it more Western?
Yeah, that's Western Canada Sasquatch.
We'll call it Sasquatch.
Okay.
But yeah, in that corner as well, I've been out there as well.
And then that's, I did a race this summer called Bigfoot because where it is is where there's all this Bigfoot lore.
Wow.
But yeah, in recent trips, you know, I'd hear stories from Sherpas of an interaction with a Yeti.
You know, some yaks got attacked and they got their heads twisted.
Yeah.
A yak herder, for example, had five yaks with her and this creature attacked her.
She was knocked out when she woke up.
All the yak's heads were twisted off, which is like if you've ever seen a yak, that is it's like the most robust cow you can imagine.
Yeah, big football player looking thing.
Yeah.
So that's, I don't know how that would happen.
And even those are more in the last decade or so, or even a few decades ago, these stories.
But there's also legends that span hundreds of years that go back hundreds of years ago.
With some of the local monasteries and how there used to be so many Yetis and Everest excursions as well, like any size.
Oh, even that.
Yeah.
So that would be coming in the 50s and 60s and stuff.
They'd see footprints.
Even some of the guides that I've climbed Everest with have little stories and have seen footprints in places where there should be no barefoot footprints and large.
Sure.
You know?
So, who knows what's going on?
And that was kind of what I wanted to do on a recent trip is document some of that for this channel, which I'm working on still.
But fascinating stuff.
Even if it's nothing, the legend there is beautiful and it's so woven into the people of that region.
Yeah, that's amazing.
I was honestly never taken by any of this stuff just because, and I've used this metaphor, I haven't let it into my house yet.
I don't know it.
I haven't looked for it.
I don't know anything about it other than I hear people hunting Bigfoot and Yeti and The Abominable Snowman of Pasadena is like, you know, my favorite Goosebumps book.
But like that was the extent of my cryptid knowledge in that area.
But hearing about you going to Nepal, you know, and you brought this up to me, you said, Chris, like, because we talked about, you know, introducing you on the channel in a more official capacity.
And we were trying to come up with, An investigation for you to handle where you would go out and investigate something, and you had suggested, well, there's the Yeti in Nepal, and not very many people get to go to Nepal on such a regular basis, let alone attempt to climb Everest and be so familiar with the locals.
You know, they're good friends.
You've had some life changing experiences with these Sherpa and these people there.
So you have a really, really close connection that not very many people have.
Ever had the opportunity to foster.
And so it puts you in a really interesting position to be able to scratch the surface a little more.
Because if I'm not mistaken, one thing that I've heard from your excursions is these people don't open up easily about this stuff.
It's almost like talking to experiencers, they want to vet you first to make sure you're not going to laugh at them.
Yeah.
It was funny because I went into it saying, I'm going to ask everybody up the valley.
If they've had any encounter.
And as soon as I said the word Yeti, they all laugh at me, you know, as expected, I guess.
It's kind of weird to be like, what are we having for lunch?
Have you ever seen the Yeti?
You know, like, but what's funny is pretty much everybody, the locals, if I, they'd laugh at the question.
And then slowly as they warmed up to me, they had a story.
They had a story either from their childhood that their father had an experience or their mother, or they would talk about some of these ancient legends.
And it was funny to hear in different valleys.
The same story, but slightly different.
You know, like it was one major one.
I won't go too deep into it just for time, but it was about how the Yetis got extinct because apparently they were everywhere in the region.
And the story is kind of the same, but the little elements are different.
But it's clear that that had been passed down through different lines.
Yeah.
The story's kind of based in some same place.
Extinct Yetis and Ancient Truths00:14:48
There's a seed of truth there somewhere.
Yeah.
Wow.
So interesting.
I mean, that's super fascinating because it's, you know, it seems so, it seems so like childish to believe in something like that from like an external point of view.
But when you meet these people who are sound, sane adults and then you hear this recurring story, is there, do you feel like it's like the UFO phenomenon where it's like, if you're not introduced to it, it just feels silly.
But then the more you're in it, the more people talk about it, the more credible it becomes and the more like you're like, oh, there is something here.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
And even, you know, with things like that, they'll poo poo it and say, like, oh, that's silly to believe that.
But then they may have an experience that's unexplainable.
And it's, it's kind of the same thing we're talking about, you know?
So I think people, it's like, you know, you have scientists who are Christian.
They believe in weird someone walking on water and turning, you know, like water into wine.
Yeah, magicians.
But I also believe in the scientific method.
That's right.
That can't actually happen, but there's like this double belief happening.
So I think most people are that way.
It's they have their rational beliefs, but then they also have their pocket of supernatural that they believe also in some secret way.
I don't know.
And then trying to connect the two.
Yeah.
All right.
I think that's a good question.
Thanks for that question, Hex.
More on that in the future.
We got another investigation coming up.
This is from Picture a Secret Tunnel.
Or this is, sorry, this is from Tess, I believe.
Okay.
This is Tess.
Is this Tess?
Yeah, this is Tess.
Was the DMT realm experience like a trick of the senses?
Or did you feel a more fundamental connection with reality?
Good question.
And we briefly talked about this this morning that I didn't get to a point where I felt like this is the real, real.
And I've heard people who break through get that sense.
In some of the Monroe experiences that I had, I felt that definitely.
I was like, oh, Me laying in this bed, that's not really the real.
Like me in this other astral plane, this is real.
This is the real reality.
And so, sorry, I gotta shut that off.
Next question.
Do you like my answer?
No, it's cycling to this other thing that I have it set up.
I'm still learning how to use this.
It just wants me to keep seeing the number 69 over there.
That's right.
Yeah, I shut it off.
And space launch alerts are off as well.
Okay.
But what I was gonna say is so going into the DMT experience, like I've already accepted that this is some.
Kind of reality, or like at least where I got to the waiting room was like on the way there.
But it definitely felt real to me when I'm experiencing it.
I don't think it's a trick.
I think it's my mind creating a world model out of what is there.
I don't know what this DMT is showing me or something.
I don't know how to explain it.
But it's definitely introducing some confusion to my brain.
And my brain's just trying to make sense of it.
Do you think your brain's trying to make sense of it?
Or does your brain like stop trying to make sense of it?
Because it could be that.
Because I feel like when your brain tries to make sense of it, that's when you get a bad trip.
Because that's like you trying to stay grounded in this 3D world when your brain's like, no, we're going to disconnect.
We're going to actually take off.
Like we're going to get out of your body for a second.
Stop using your organs to limit your reality.
Right.
And experience life without physical, you know, and that's like if you, I always felt like if you try to hold on to that, that's when things get scary.
Yeah.
Cause then you're trying to rationalize these irrational things.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
No, I mean, when I did my first trip with mushrooms, I felt like what was happening to me was the veil was coming off and I was aware that I was about to see the real reality.
I didn't quite break through, but I had this feeling that over there outside of this was that truth.
And so now going into this DMT experience, I felt kind of the same that I'm being shown more of the truth.
And I remember even when I did the free basing experience, I was outside looking at the stars and I saw connections between the stars, like these green lines, as if those were like constellations or like how one travels from start, like they're all connected.
It was like, you know, when you see airplanes and you go, like it was that, like this one goes there.
If you can, you can.
I don't know.
And it felt like that's the truth.
I looked at that and I was like, oh, okay.
These are all connected.
I'm getting a glimpse of that now.
Wow.
That felt real.
It felt real.
And I'm also aware that it's a substance interacting with my brain, but I think it's not tricking my brain.
I think it's showing me the reality.
The star maps remind me of like the Betty and Barney Hill when Betty described like Zeta Reticuli and she said they travel here to here.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, just like that.
Interesting.
All right, let's go to another one.
I think we got two more here.
This is from Picture a Secret Tunnel, this one here.
This is a good question.
This is a great question.
The question is if you had to encode the entirety of human history into a single unforgettable mental image, what would that image look like?
Now, as a memory athlete who, like, if I say 628.
Yeah.
Oh, that's this guy, Mr. Silver, a teacher I had in high school.
If I say 212.
That's Andy.
No, not Andy.
It's, no, it is Andy from the office.
And what is he doing?
He's just being a dweeb with his little bow tie.
Yeah.
So, as a memory athlete, you associate numbers instantly, immediately, naturally, now, fundamentally to images.
And I feel like that's so cool.
When I did that with playing cards, it was so cool.
It was like a superpower that you could just line these images up and remember numbers.
And that's the basis of memory techniques encoding information into mental images.
We remember them better.
So, now this is a beautiful question.
Thank you, Picture Secret Tunnel, for this question.
I love this question.
What would you encode?
The entirety of human history, not reality, of human history.
I don't know.
My first instinct, and this is so cheesy, I feel like, okay.
I don't, it's hard.
Like when we're talking about a mental image, I'm almost being led to describe an object, you know?
Because if you think of an image, it should be, you're thinking of a thing.
Right.
And I get into this conversation with encoding and memory techniques that, You know, when I'm teaching someone, it's like if you're trying to memorize a list and a grocery list and you have broccoli, let's say, close your eyes, picture the broccoli.
How does it taste?
How does it feel?
Whatever.
If you eat it, you know, can you imagine all those things?
That's the image.
Yeah.
But as you get better at this, you really, there's none of that.
It's actually more of a feeling of something.
And so if I were to explain what my image for a broccoli is, I couldn't tell you.
And it's funny with the cards, some of the, when I train the cards, I'm super fast, like one of my best days, I'm in the zone.
I don't know what I'm seeing.
They just are.
It just is.
You know, it's not like I'm seeing a picture of Andy from the office dancing.
No, it's just like a feeling of that.
And I don't even need to recognize it.
It's just there.
So when I think about an image for that, it's hard to say like.
What's the fundamental base image you would start with?
Well, I was going to say love, right?
Right.
But like, what is that?
A heart?
I don't know if that would represent it enough.
So I'm trying to get away with an answer that's kind of like.
Nebulous.
One thing, but everything.
Right.
You know, um.
So what would be your representation of love?
What's the image there?
Yeah.
So I'm not seeing a heart.
It would be like a warm, colorful, I guess, reddish, just blob.
That sounds so bad.
It's more like it makes sense to me.
I mean, it's fine.
But like some kind of welcoming, warming blob.
Red blob.
Yeah.
But which maybe it's good because there's a lot of war and love in history.
So maybe that kind of encompasses it all.
But I feel like love is bigger than the bad shit and the evil shit.
So.
If I had to choose one, I guess maybe that.
What about you?
Yeah.
It's a terrifying question to even try and.
It's such a response.
You have such a responsibility.
Yeah.
What about this?
Let's say we know that there's a million angels.
I see like the Vitruvian man.
Oh, okay.
Sort of the Vitruvian man, but instead of a circle around him, it's the earth.
Yeah.
And he's sort of in a sphere.
Okay.
That's.
And so everything is happening on the earth.
Yeah.
Because all of human history has only ever happened on the earth, save the moon.
But, you know, so the earth would have to be for me part of that mental image because that's where it happens.
That's what it's about.
And then human history, the human side of it is like this retrieving man, which represents man.
Yeah.
And so that's the image that I would have.
Okay.
Well, I think more, but I'm not a freaking memory athlete.
So, yeah.
Well, I was going to say another idea.
I'm sure a nebulous red blob is a better depiction of human history.
Yeah.
But yeah, if maybe we're going to go with a.
Here's a thought experiment.
What if we have, you know, there's some like galactic federation and they're looking at all the planets, like say there's a hundred and maybe there's more, but each one has like a feeling like, oh, that's the one with the humans.
Or like a sigil.
Yeah.
That's the one with the schlurbs.
You know, that's the one with the schlooby doos.
We don't use that word anymore.
Sorry.
Yeah.
That was the old terminology for that.
But what would be the, you know, like what would they say about the humans?
Oh, those are the warmongering.
We'll see.
Yeah, maybe, but I feel like more they'd be like, oh, those are the like compassionate sweet ones.
Yeah, it's like a wasp's nest, I would think.
That would be the one for the.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, they're attacking.
They're always attacking.
They're even attacking each other.
It's wild.
Interesting.
Yeah.
They don't even attack us.
Yeah.
They just attack each other.
So strange.
Looking at it from third person is so strange.
Okay.
Let's go to the next one here.
Cool question.
Yeah.
Great question.
I should have.
We should have talked about this when we were high.
Yeah, definitely.
So here we go.
Massive Castles asks, How have your out of body experience shaped your views on death?
Oh, yeah.
Good question.
Totally changed it.
I, you know, I've always hoped that there was more to this.
I don't want to die and not be the end.
But for a large part of my life, I guess since like 10 years old, I stopped believing in God and became a devout atheist.
And through my teens to like 20, I loved arguing with anybody.
Same.
You're wrong.
This is it.
Actually, I'm the only thing that exists.
You're all figments of my imagination.
Stuff like that, you know, solipsism, whatever.
And I was okay with that.
You know, I convinced myself, like, I am all I need.
And, you know, I don't need a God to help me get through the days.
And when I die, I'm in the earth.
And that's.
Yeah, there's nothing.
There's nothing.
Yeah.
And it's not bad because there's nothing.
So what.
Like when I feel bad about it, right?
And so I've never really had like the fear of death to like instill a need to believe in something bigger yet, at least.
But after the Monroe Institute experience and having body out of body experiences, and also this thing that was drilled into us that we are more than our physical bodies, like I have no question that that is the case.
And I already started to have inklings of that because of the remote viewing stuff I got into.
Where it's like, well, if this is possible, how is it possible?
And that kind of opens doors to things that I was like, I don't know if I can believe in that yet.
But the out of body, you know, being able to get out and see and experience things in this other realm, I just got answers that gave me a belief, not more than a belief, sorry, a knowing, a personal knowing, you know, that there is more to this.
And I walked away from that experience, just not afraid, almost excited, uh, just to not, not excited to get to that point, but I am excited for the grand arc of whatever this is.
Yeah.
And noting that this is just a little blip of that entire thing.
Yeah.
And I can enjoy this more because it is so special for this fleeting moment that I'm here, you know?
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
I also get the sense that like, When you said that, like you're excited.
Like, I've shared that with friends and they get very concerned very quickly.
I'm like, no, I'm looking forward to dying.
And they're like, what?
They're like, are you okay?
Should I call someone?
I'm like, no, like I look forward to it.
Like, I'm not afraid of it at all.
And I can't wait to figure it out.
I can't wait to find out what happens.
I can wait.
I will wait.
And when the time comes, the time comes.
But when that time comes, know that I'm not going to.
I feel bad for everyone else because I'm the one that gets to find out.
You know, I'm on that bed and everybody's like, oh, you die alone.
I'm like, yeah, cool.
Well, you know, sucks to be you guys because you guys are still going to be like, what happens?
And I'm going to find out.
I'm going to go find out right now, real quick.
Yeah.
You know, and that's just a weird thought that I had like the other day was that, yeah, more people have died than are alive today.
Finding Out After Life Ends00:15:54
Yeah.
Right.
So more people found out.
Yeah.
There's a very small percentage of people that don't know what happens after you die.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a tiny percentage of mankind that doesn't know what happens after you die.
Yeah.
Well, actually, not that tiny.
I mean, there's no human that's never found out.
That's right.
That's right.
And so that's a comforting thing.
I, too, you know, have a similar arc where it's, you know, started off raised Catholic, became atheist, then agnostic, even believing again a little bit and then coming back.
But then eventually being, you know, just sort of open to this spiritual.
You know, realm and what it has to offer my human, sorry, my human experience.
And that's where I found that this human experience isn't figured out by the age of 20.
You know, it's so mind boggling when people are like, you know, because it's an arc.
Our lives are a story.
They're an arc.
Wild that after chapter three, you're just like, nothing ever changes.
Right?
That's a shit story, dude.
I don't want to read that book.
Your life sucks.
Like, I'm sorry.
So, what's chapter three?
Like, I'm atheist now.
Oh, I see.
Yeah.
Right?
I'm atheist.
Yeah.
I figured it out.
I'm like, wow.
Damn, you're so smart.
You're like, literally, maybe the smartest person ever that knows everything.
That's crazy.
That's crazy that you know everything.
You have everything figured out.
Like that to me is like, wow, you must be so learned and knowledgeable.
Rarely the case.
It's more like a Dunning Kruger effect where the confidence is the same level as someone who knows, but your glass is pretty empty.
So when I see people like that, and I don't want to judge because everyone has their own journey and I was there as well.
But in hindsight, an arc is beautiful.
It's beautiful when you watch a movie or when you watch an eight season series and you see the character arc completely change from this one person you hated and you're like, I will never love this person to now having an emotional attachment to them, see them grow and watch them die.
And now it makes you sad and like, that's beautiful.
And that's life.
It's these lessons that create us, that shape us, that we think we haven't figured out.
And then the rug gets pulled or something else, somebody comes into your life or you lose someone and it changes who you are.
And it's a beautiful, beautiful.
Constantly shifting thing.
Yeah.
And I think atheism is a mechanism to prevent us from being hurt.
I think it's something that stops us from wanting to.
So you saying, no, there's nothing and I don't believe in anything.
You're rationalizing this extremely surreal and irrational reality into this materialist box that doesn't really serve you on a deeper level.
But it does serve you on a shield as a shield for anything because it gives you an explanation.
Yeah.
And the unknown variables don't exist anymore.
Because they don't exist, you don't fear them.
Opening up now creates this unknown, it creates a fear, a fear of everything.
Yeah.
So, you know, when I had my experiences with out of body, it was a comforting acknowledgement.
I had prior to, I had my out of body experiences involuntarily, and I didn't know what to make of those.
You know, because as time goes by, you think back, like maybe it was just a fucking dream or something.
Although now I know it wasn't, but you know, that was my mindset.
And then I'd read Journey of Souls, and that really opened me up to the idea of this past life or between life or like incarnation thing where before I was like, well, I'm going to be a freaking beetle in my next life.
Like, what do I choose?
This all sounds like a silly Disney movie.
Looking back thousands of years, you know, many, many, many religions, many people, you know, come to the same conclusion that yes, there is like this life cycle and you forget every time you come back and you're here to learn lessons.
And so, looking into that and then having a voluntary out of body experience, seeing myself lying there with my eyes closed, confirmed all of these other things to me, for now at least.
And it creates this beautiful loop where it's like, whoa, I was forced to believe in God when I was, and now I believe in something greater than that word.
Yeah, it's not even about believing in God.
No, it's like an all encompassing thing.
And if you want to call it God, you want to call it consciousness, you want to call it information, whatever.
Yeah.
To me, anyways, it's not about God, G O D.
Yeah, but we're taught in the wrong way.
We're taught with like rules.
It's all human constructs.
It's all through the human interfaces we're taught this stuff.
We're not taught spirituality in a spiritual way.
Yeah.
We're taught spirituality through human contact and human rules.
And that's just a weird way to learn about something that's greater than humanity.
Yeah.
And so it's like learning, it's like learning about humans, you know, while on DMT.
It doesn't make sense.
Right.
So, yeah, it was a nice confirmation for me as well.
And that I don't fear it.
I welcome it.
I look forward to it when it happens, you know, not immediately.
I can wait.
But, yeah, I look forward to the day that I get to find out and that everybody else has to just chill here.
I'm like, yeah, dude, sorry, man.
I'm on an adventure.
On to the next.
Yeah.
The arc continues.
It doesn't end there.
There was a.
A talk by Ramdas that I was listening to that he was, I think, paraphrasing something the Buddha said about how there's this massive mountain, you know, six miles high, six miles wide, whatever.
And you can imagine there's a little bird with a little scarf, silk scarf that flies and drapes across the mountain, you know, back and forth.
And that our lives are every time it goes by and it's eroding this mountain.
Right.
If you can think of the whole lifetime of your lifetimes, right, is this mountain and that, you know, this flyover blip, you were a carpenter.
Right.
You were a memory champion.
Yeah.
You were a Chris Ramsey.
Yeah.
Right.
It just shows, if you think about it in that perspective, how quick and ephemeral, ephemeral these little lives are.
But they're important.
Sure.
They're their own things, but there's a bigger picture here.
Yeah.
I thought it was such a beautiful.
It's cool.
Yeah.
It's cool that we all, Desire meaning.
And I think that is a mechanism that doesn't seem conducive to survival.
Because I don't think, I don't know, but I think like many other beings that exist on this planet with us, and I'll call them non human intelligence because they are like a dolphin's non human intelligence, their meaning doesn't seem to be something that is important to them.
Right.
And it is to us.
Why is that?
Is it because we're just more a complex creature that has more access to this conscious field, this consciousness field, and that we're sort of touching the source a little bit because of that?
And that now we see this meaning.
But I do believe in this ongoing base theory of mine, which is this mining of consciousness.
Like we're here in the 3D realm to gain experience.
Individually, as this node that grew on this surface that consciousness sort of inhabits in a way.
And then when we die, we take that information that we've accumulated.
Our individualism dies as we become part of the whole, but we retain memory.
So memory is now stacked like we're creating this GPT model of consciousness.
And then we're fed back into another.
So, this consciousness machine is sending off little missions to collect data.
It's doing it inherently.
That's the side effect of it existing.
It wants to express itself.
It wants to grow.
It wants to learn.
Just like we do, because we are an extension of it.
We're an appendage.
Each lifetime, a person born and die having experiences that then gets enveloped back into the fold is bringing something positively gained.
Yes.
Correct.
Big.
Field.
Yeah.
It's, it's making it more complete, you know, or helping it attain this apotheosis or this like critical, you know, when it finally ends up, when consciousness finally becomes self aware.
Who's, who's it trying to impress?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who knows?
You know, and, and what happens when it does reach that point?
Yeah.
You know, or is it more like a Torah flux, like a Taurus of, of energy where new souls are shipped out and, It needs to gain all this experience in order to return to the source and keep powering this reality.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's all it is.
It's just like this big power plant of consciousness.
It almost feels like it can't just be gaining and gaining and gaining without any end goal.
It's got to, if that's the case, if there's nothing out past that, there's got to be some kind of cyclical self feeding purpose to it that maybe self sustains.
Yeah, it has to be a loop somewhere.
Yeah.
Because if not, then you have to acknowledge that there was a beginning.
Yeah.
And I don't think there ever was.
I think that's the paradox here is that, you know, if something's growing and reaches a certain point, that means at one point it was nothing and nothing can't exist.
Yeah.
So, well, and the purpose, like, why keep feeding, like, why does it need more information?
Well, perhaps because the information somehow, like you said, has to keeps it on, keeps the lights on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And perhaps there are an infinite amount of these Torah fluxes, and each one behaves, you know, similarly in that they, like, our reality is only dictated by our perception.
Yeah.
And that perception is anchored in time because of our brains and our bodies.
But, It exists outside of that too, which is unfathomable.
You know what I mean?
On so many levels.
So, does it have an equivalent of time that it is constrained by in regards to whatever's above it?
You know, what are you talking about?
Should we hit the pen?
I was going to say, guys, we are still high.
I love it.
It's like we're on our trip right now.
Yeah, this isn't real.
This has been so much fun, dude.
I enjoy these conversations.
Yeah.
You know, extensional existentialism and, and, and, you know, ontology.
It's just super fascinating.
Yeah, I love it.
Especially with someone like you who has such a, you know, from my perspective, and I think from their perspective as well, a refined, you know, mind.
Like you've, a lot of people out there train their muscles or, you know, run marathons or get good at certain skills and you've honed in on memory.
Mm hmm.
Being that skill.
Yeah, I've dedicated a big part of my life at this point to mastering some of this thing that's contained in my skull.
Which part of that brain there?
It's tucked in there.
Yeah.
The white parts?
No.
Well, I mean, it's all.
When we're memorizing, the whole thing is lit up.
Right, because it's visual, sensory, and smell.
That's always a fascinating thing when you see somebody memorizing, like an fMRI scan of somebody just memorizing with no memory techniques versus us.
Oh, really?
It's like, There's a very specific part of the brain that's lighting up for these folk.
And then for us, it's like the whole thing.
I thought it would be the opposite.
No, no, no.
I thought, like, as a memory athlete, you're more focused.
You can, like, this is.
Well, that's a good question.
I mean, maybe between memory champions, if you were to go scan me during that flow state I was mentioning a little bit ago, maybe, maybe nothing's happening there.
Right.
Or like less or something.
I don't know.
But in general, we're, because we're using spatial information, all this visual information.
Emotional stuff.
There's a lot of different parts of the brain being tapped in when we memorize, which is what makes the stuff stick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would, you want to stick around for the Patreon?
Yeah.
I wanted to say one last thing about this question because, and I think you felt this, but the first thing I thought when I left Monroe was, yeah, that was cool.
But second was everybody needs to go through this.
I think even if you don't believe, you don't want to believe, and you know, you may walk out of it still not believing, that's fine.
But I feel like there's so much to gain from exploring yourself that way.
Yeah.
Everybody would benefit.
I think everybody would be a better person.
I think we'd live better lives, optimal versions of ourselves.
Yeah.
You think the same?
Absolutely agree.
Yeah.
I think if you, I think if everybody had an out of body experience, the world would be a better place.
Yeah.
It doesn't necessarily mean you have to do Monroe Institute.
I think any type of retreat or time that you take to really be uncomfortable with yourself and self reflect deeply, which it's hard.
You know, like I don't get time with my kids and all that.
Like, that's why the Monroe retreat was perfect because I only had to do that for a week.
Nothing else.
No laundry, no cleaning shit out of diapers, no crying.
Yeah, you're focused.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
Highly recommend something like that for anybody.
Yeah.
If that's the part of your journey where you're at right now and you feel a pull towards this, I would say this is your sign to go forward and do it.
Yeah.
I would not force anyone to do this because we're all on different paths and it might not be the right time for you to even experience this.
And I think when it's your right time, you'll know.
Yeah.
Just like watching this podcast, you know, you watch these podcasts, you're here because this is interesting to you now.
Yeah.
You know, you wouldn't be listening to this if this wasn't part of your journey.
Something made you click on this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is, you know, where you're at.
You're here with us.
So we're going to, we're going to keep this going in the extra episode.
We always have little extra episodes here in The SCIF.
And I'm going to dive deeper into memory with you during that podcast.
You know, I'm a big fan of this memory stuff.
You know, I think Josh Foer's book is one of my favorites.
It was just such an interesting read.
And I have a lot of questions about that.
And I would also like to test out your memory in a bit of a memory test if we could do that.
Join the Investigation Journey00:01:36
Sounds good.
Yeah, check out Nelson Dellis.
I'll leave his socials below.
You can check out his YouTube channel if you're interested in learning more about memory techniques.
If you think your memory is bad, try memory techniques because you'll be quickly surprised at how good you'll be.
And you'll be impressed at how easy it is actually when you put your mind to it.
A lot of these things you can do.
Really, really quickly.
And that includes learning Morse code, learning a different language, learning the alphabet backwards, learning about all the presidents.
The list goes on and on.
Fun for you, fun for the kids.
He also has a kids book that is out that you can purchase for your children, which will, you know, give them a lifetime of knowledge.
So encourage you to check all of that out below.
Nelson, thank you so much.
Thank you, brother.
Thanks for having me.
Let's take a little break.
Okay.
And then we're going to continue this conversation in the Patreon.
Guys, join button if you want to keep it here on YouTube.
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