Editor-in-chief Kyle Mann and creative director Ethan Nicolle talk to Costi Hinn, nephew of notorious faith healer Benny Hinn. After leaving that ministry behind, Costi Hinn is now a pastor at Redeemer Bible Church in Gilbert, Arizona. He is the author of God, Greed, and the (Prosperity) Gospel. They talk about Costi's childhood living large like a Kardashian, learning about a different gospel from a pink study bible, and what goes on behind the scenes of a prominent prosperity gospel ministry. Topics Discussed Going straight into the deep end of Calvinism because of a pink MacArthur study bible A day in the life of Benny Hinn- what's it like to have a personal duster? On growing up as a Hinn was a Kardashian lifestyle The prosperity gospel vs the Biblical gospel On batting 0.068 slaying people in the spirit and only "healing" one guy What went on behind the scenes at these healing events? Not raising a hand against the Lord's Anointed, even if they happen to be creeps just claiming to have the anointing On whether prosperity health-and-wealth healers sincerely believe their own message or if they just cashing in On Benny Hinn's occasional "repentance" on the prosperity gospel New wave prosperity preachers and the old generals The Ten Questions See also: Benny Hinn is my uncle, but Prosperity Gospel is not for me A few Babylon Bee articles on Benny Hinn: Benny Hinn Holds Healing Service In Full Hazmat Suit Benny Hinn Loses Control Of Powers, Sends Audience Member Soaring Hundreds Of Feet Into Air Benny Hinn Spends Another Long Day At Children's Hospital Healing Kids Benny Hinn Attempts Jedi Mind Trick On IRS Agents Investigating His Ministry Benny Hinn Miraculously Removes Lump From Woman's Purse Benny Hinn Added To 'Smash Bros.' Roster Benny Hinn Masterfully Knocks Down Audience Members Arranged In Notoriously Difficult 7–10 Split I Honestly Can Not Believe I'm Still Getting Away With This To watch or listen to the full length podcast, become a paid subscriber at https://babylonbee.com/plans
I just have to say that I object strenuously to your use of the word hilarious.
Hard-hitting questions.
What do you think about feminism?
Do you like it?
Taking you to the cutting edge of truth.
Yeah, well, Last Jedi is one of the worst movies ever made, and it was very clear that Brian Johnson doesn't like Star Wars.
Kyle pulls no punches.
I want to ask how you're able to sleep at night.
Etha brings bone-shattering common sense from the top rope.
If I may, how double dare you?
This is the Babylon Bee Interview Show.
Well, everybody, today we are talking to Kosti Hinn, who...
I've heard that last name before.
Yeah, the name Hinn sounds familiar.
Ringing sounds.
I see people falling.
People are falling over.
Falling over.
Getting knocked over and being slapped in the head.
Yeah.
Huh.
Benny Hinn.
It just came back to me.
We've made a few jokes about Benny Hinn.
I think I did a search on our website.
Maybe it was two or three thousand jokes, probably.
Yeah.
A good half the jokes on the Babylon B are about Benny Hinn.
He's provided us with a lot.
So thank you for your uncle for that, I guess.
I do what I can.
Thank you.
I do what I can.
I really, I do what I can.
Thank you for being Benny Hinn's nephew.
We really appreciate it.
You're so welcome.
You're really welcome.
In my former pre-existent life in the spirit realm, whatever we used to teach, I specifically asked whatever spirit I was talking to if I could be a Hin and be anointed.
So you're welcome, basically.
I don't even know.
I don't remember that part.
So there really is a teaching about a pre-existent spirit life.
Is this true?
There actually is.
So let's get serious for a second.
Yeah, I'm curious.
I'm not playing around.
So then, okay.
One of my other uncles, who will actually remain nameless, taught and teaches that babies, when they, the reason they cry when they enter this world, I can see one of your eyes.
You guys are like, oh my goodness, what is he going to say?
So babies, when they come into this world, the reason they cry is it's the cry of humanity as they've left the presence of God and entered into, entered into a place where they're now away from God.
So babies are, I don't know what you'd call that, like a pre-incarnate almost, a pre-thing where babies are with the presence of God.
Their spirits are with the presence of God.
They enter the world.
This just got really weird and theological.
Yeah.
And they cry.
That's the cry of humanity, not because they're just gasping for air and they've left the ambiotic fluid and that's normal, but because like maybe they are, yeah, it's like, oh, I missed, I miss God.
I miss his presence.
And so that is like a real teaching.
I've sat in the service with that.
And I remember even as a young guy thinking, man, if that's true, that's really cool.
Like that preaches really well.
And now it makes sense all like why babies scream when they come in the world.
And we've had four.
We just had our fourth.
And so I'm like, yeah.
And that's cute too, right?
Babies came from, you know, being in God's presence and then they went into the womb.
It's almost Jesus-like.
So now we're into like the little God word of faith approach, but that's a real teaching.
So I'm being a little bit funny and cheeky about it, but I'm also that that's a serious thing.
It doesn't explain why they're such jerks.
Like, if they just were with God and they come here and they have such a bad attitude about everything, and it just gets worse till they're like two, and then they start to learn.
But yeah, I behave and they're not smart, they're really dumb.
It's true.
Although, the argument from that camp would be, and this is this is a real conversation I've had with a family member as well at a wedding, which is never good.
Always, you know, bring up politics and religion at that point.
Yeah.
And so, um, I made a joke once and was, and I had just come out of, I mean, I think I had read a book by Sproul, and then I had read a parenting book by John MacArthur.
So, like, you just basically took, you know, dynamite and plutonium and just stuck them together.
And total depravity was all I talked about.
And so, I'm at the wedding.
I'm like, oh, yeah, we just had our first baby.
And I said, oh, yeah.
And they were like, oh, that's so cute.
And I said, yeah, you know, those little sinners, you know, they just come out like a bunch of depraved little Hellions and you got to give them Jesus and pray for the best.
I was just joking because I was in cage stage.
Everything was total depravity, you know, like the worm in the dirt.
That's all the baby was.
You know, it's terrible to say now.
People are probably like, what are you talking about?
But when you first encountered total depravity, everyone's a wretch.
These, you know, little sinners, no matter how cute they are, if you gave them a handgun and they could, they would kill everyone, right?
They're sinners.
So I said that.
The whole table just stared at me.
And this one individual said, Excuse me?
What?
They're not little sinners.
They've not sinned yet.
They have just come from the presence of God.
They have entered in the world.
They learn to sin and then they'll sin very soon.
And I said, oh, no, no, no, no, I don't mean anything by it.
This is like, you know, the stain of sin.
This, you know, Ephesians 2, by nature, children of wrath.
And it turned into a war.
And I was quiet.
I mailed them all.
Yeah, I mailed them all John MacArthur parenting books.
That's really not a good idea as well.
And so these are real teachings.
I don't know why, how we started this way, but yes, all of that is not planned.
So if you're interested, we do have onesies available on the Babylon Fear store that say little bundle of depravity.
So we do.
This is just a sales pitch.
We're just trying to sell products to custom.
I should have sent them those.
And then also for my promotion right now, I expect a onesie for my little sinless daughter, Ruth, who's only a month old and is never, she's not sinful at all.
So, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, congratulations on Ruth.
So Ruth Joy.
That's huge.
So you kind of, so you went, you were basically like a cage stage Calvinist in Benny Hen's family.
Like you, I mean, you jumped, did you jump right into the deep end of the theological pool?
Because that's, that's crazy to me.
Yeah, some things.
So here's, I'll give you the, let me give you an elevator speech on how 60 seconds though to 120 seconds max on this.
I'll just give you the phases.
The things I was mad about and I would refuse to conform to, and then things that I was all on board with.
So I jumped on board.
Tulip made sense.
I'm going, okay, total depravity.
Yep.
And then the joke, everyone's like, yeah, you don't need to teach them to sin.
You ever teach your kid to say no?
They just come out sinful.
I'm like, that totally makes sense.
Unconditional election, I wrestled with.
I was like, well, then how do I save people?
And how do I, because we would even now be like, yeah, go save somebody, you know, go give them the gospel.
And then all the Calvinist, you know, hyper-Calvinist or angry people in the room are like, no, we don't save anyone.
Stop saying that.
I'm like, it's just, I just mean evangelistically.
Let's go save somebody.
Let's go reach somebody.
Or like Paul, that I might save some or win more.
But the you made sense.
The limited atonement, I was like, whoa, now, hey, we need to wrestle through that a little bit.
Like, by so the blood of Jesus is only for the electoral.
And then you wrestle through four and a half point, like you know, um, uh, sufficient for all, effective for the elect, all that.
So now we're, we don't need to go to war over that right now, but there's that.
And some of that made sense.
I'm like, okay, I get, I get both positions, but um, this all out, like Jesus just died for you and he's crossing his fingers that you'll believe.
Like, oh, please don't turn your back on the savior.
That made no sense anymore.
I'm going, what are you talking?
Like, God's up in heaven.
Like, oh, please pick me.
He's got your picture up on his refrigerator.
Seriously, like, go, maybe today's the day, Father, and the Holy Spirit's like, I'm going to keep working, fellas.
Like, let's get this going.
And the father's like, man, I sure hope that I see down the pipeline, but I'm just not sure how it all works out.
I, that, like, totally just gone.
I'm going, that's insane.
So that made sense.
At least the wrestling match between four and a half and five-point Calvinism.
And then irresistible grace, I'm going, yep, I experienced that.
Why in the world would I ever believe any of this or suddenly change my mind or fight?
I can't wrestle, resist the grace of God.
He just comes in like a flood and takes over.
And then perseverance of the saints totally made sense because now I'm going, oh, yeah, the four soils, the parable of the sower.
I used to think those are the four stages of the Christian life.
Like some of us were just hard-hearted, and some of you, you know, you're rocky soil and you just need to grow more.
And some of you are the thorny soil and riches are choking you out.
So resist the riches.
And some of us are just thriving.
That made no sense anymore either.
I'm going, oh, yeah, there's a hard path, there's shallow roots.
And some of those people don't end up panning out.
They never really were saved.
Then there's other people that go a long time in this and then all of a sudden they're choked out by the riches and cares.
So that makes sense because now they fell away.
They backslid, but turns out, like John said, they were really never one of us.
And then Jesus, Lord, Lord, we did this in your name, this in your name.
He's like, I didn't even know.
I don't even know you.
Who are you?
So that perseverance of the saints made sense too.
Oh, the truly saved will stay saved.
They'll sin.
They'll struggle.
There'll be things that go on.
But so all that made sense.
But here's what I was really not okay with.
My wife wanted a pink MacArthur study Bible.
We're in Lifeway and we have a marital spat.
Oh, she sees this pink one.
She has the, they used to give these 40% off coupons, life way all the time.
So 40% off life way in Tustin, California, like relocation that shut down.
We were really bummed.
But at first, we're in there all the time.
And I, I'm like, no, we're not.
I mean, you're not buying that.
And she, my wife is like five foot two, too little, and she just stomps her little foot, you know, the elbow on the hip.
I'm getting this Bible.
And I'm like, no, you're not.
This is the guy who like he doesn't believe in miracles.
He's right about some stuff and he's been really helpful for me.
But this is the dude that doesn't believe in miracles.
He's like anti-Holy Spirit.
There's this cessationist thing.
He hates women.
Oh, yeah.
Hates women and all of that.
I literally said my anniversary today.
You are happy anniversary.
Not turned to stealing.
No, you're not stealing anything.
That's a big moment.
She's hot.
So there you go.
Smoking.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Sorry, continue.
Sorry.
Are you guys done?
Can I keep going?
Yeah, keep going.
Tulip.
I'm kidding.
We passed the tulip.
John MacArthur, pink Bible, Tustin, we're in Lifeway.
We're coming.
We're in Tustin at Lifeway.
It's a hot day.
And so my wife stomps her foot, has to have this boat.
So I said, You are not putting that in my house and ruining, like, sullying my children with this belief he has.
And so she holds her ground.
Finally, I said, All right, fine.
You can get the Bible, but I'm going to highlight it everywhere that he's wrong, where he says there's no miracles.
I'm highlighting that.
And we're going to, you're going to know he's wrong.
And my kids are going to believe in that stuff.
A black highlighter.
Yeah.
Oh, totally.
Sharpie Jefferson Bible, right?
Just cut it out.
No chop.
Yeah.
Sir Marks a lot.
Yeah.
So the Bible ends up in the house.
And long story short, in a real funny way, two weeks later, who's reading that thing every day?
Me.
And so I've got this pink study Bible and I can't get enough of it.
So I start warming up to that.
And I realize I'm like, John MacArthur believes in healing.
John MacArthur believes we serve a supernatural God.
He just has some positions where he's like, no one's running around.
You know, the white jacket that your uncle flings around isn't actually healing anyone.
That's not the gift.
Like, calm down.
The jacket is magical.
Is that he knocks people over with the coat?
Yeah.
Oh, I thought he used his hand.
Well, sometimes it depends.
The coat?
I didn't catch it.
I didn't know about the coat.
That's cool.
No.
So you remember?
Yeah, it's like Dr. Strange's coat.
Let me go back a little more, even Bible style.
Elijah and Elijah, right?
Elijah throws the mantle and it lands on Elijah and gets the double portion anointing.
Okay.
So the teaching is: even, and my uncle has said this: even if a man is a devil, don't touch him.
Don't touch the Lord's anointed.
Don't come against him.
Because the office, his mantle is anointed.
Now you're like, you can excuse someone from basically being a cult leader or a heretic.
Yes, because they're in an anointed office.
It's like the chair I'm in right now.
Even if I could, I could be an adulterer, a thief, a schemer, but if I'm in my position, don't touch me, come against me, because my position is anointed.
So he would view like objects or offices, positions in his case as well.
The jacket, this anointed mantle.
And he's just, he's sending the anointing on.
In a hundred years, people look back when history will highlight that as one of the greatest scams and theatrical presentations, the greatest swooning of people.
People I'm sure, like thespians and actors, actresses alike will look at that and probably model their careers after the extraordinary acting and theatrics of my uncle and those services.
But yeah, that's the spiritual element behind the jacket.
There's a verse for everything, guys.
Okay.
So it's kind of like how we won't criticize Trump because he's president.
Absolutely.
He's anointed.
Do not come against him, or you will have the wrath of Paula White will come upon you.
Yeah.
Or he'll hit you with the Holy Ghost machine gun.
True story.
True story.
AR John 3:16.
You guys could probably keep going all afternoon.
We have a ton of, I mean, not that we don't want to downplay your conversion to real Christianity, which we appreciate.
We like that a lot.
And we recommend your book because you go into detail.
Kyle read your first book.
I read your second book.
So we're pretty even here.
But we really just want to get all the juice, like the juice, the dirty, the dirt.
I don't know.
What's that?
Okay.
We just want to hear about Benny Hannibal.
Do you have any cool stories?
Yeah.
That's the main question.
Got it.
We were just talking before.
We're like, we have questions, but we really just want you to just start telling stories about growing up around that.
Because nobody else, I don't know if you quite understand how what a bizarre upbringing you probably had.
I don't.
I keep, I want to veer us in.
Like, I'm going to reach over and grab my Bible.
You want to prove you're normal.
Yeah, let's beer.
We accept you.
Can I quote Spurgeon?
Like, will you guys finally believe?
Like, will someone just accept me?
We accept you.
But you have a window into a world we are so curious about.
Just picture that we're all sitting around the campfire with non-alcoholic beverages.
And we do have some quick guesses, though.
Like Benny Hannes' day-to-day, like when he makes an omelet, if he cracks an egg, does it immediately heal in his hand and he just can't do it?
Oh, you guys want like normal life window normal life and also the knocking people over just cool story.
Yeah, my uncle doesn't make his uncle doesn't make his own omelet.
He's got a guy who makes his omelets.
He makes the best omelet because he can't because he can't because he would yeah.
And so I want you to picture picture an oven, beautiful oven, gorgeous house, and picture picture a couple of little pans that are pre-greased.
You know, the good ones, they never stick.
And yeah, garlic in one of them because our family's really big on garlic, like it's healthy for you.
And with little breakfast potatoes, like home fries in one, and then an omelette.
You know, the kind of omelette that folds over.
It's so thin, it's perfect.
There's tomatoes in it, all of that.
That's how an omelette would be made.
And my uncle would never, he doesn't make the omelette.
Somebody makes the omelette for him.
I'm sure he has full-time right there.
Absolutely.
There's servants for everything.
So think Kardashians, like you really think that Kim Kardashian is going to iron Kanye's shirt and do his tie and be like, oh, go get him, honey.
No, there's for that.
That's the life that another one.
There's a duster.
It's actually the same guy who cooks.
A human?
Yeah, human.
There's a duster who he dusts is like his personal valet.
That would be a good example.
You ever watch Downton Abbey or one of those shows where the guy has a butler and then a valet and then a first footman and all that?
Is Cameron any of those?
I don't watch one of them.
So picture having guys that you're, you know, you got your guy that does your suits and pressing stuff and brings you food, all that.
He's a guy who feather dusts his car, his Bentley or his Benz or whatever he's going to drive it, feather dust it before it goes out of the garage.
That's kind of cool.
So that kind of stuff.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Does he have any dietary restrictions?
I don't know why I want to know that.
He is a super star when it comes to health.
I used to carry one of the, we had all Louis Vuitton luggage.
And so one of the Louis Vuitton bags is full of supplements.
I was taking fish oil when I was like 14 before any before it was a craze and you could get them in bulk at Costco.
I was taking fish oil because my uncle was taking fish oil.
I mean, he very healthy.
He's actually a guy you'd want to be around.
You want to work out with him.
You want to eat like him because he's very health conscious.
He's not just this gluttonous guy.
He's not like alcohol and all that.
Like you think some of the prosperity preacher stories you'll hear, these guys are drunks.
They're adulterers.
They're out there just being wild.
Party animals.
We all did that.
Like side note outside, like with the money we were making, the younger generation.
But we can heal.
You do.
Yeah.
He's when I say straight as an arrow, fellas, like the man follows the rules in all the ways that, and you're like, really?
So he's kind of like an honest thief.
Yes.
He takes care of his body.
He drives the speed limit.
He like never goes out.
He does not consume alcohol like a wild man.
He just is very regimented.
And like, so I actually modeled and learned a lot.
I modeled his lifestyle.
I still do.
Like I like a good ironed shirt.
I don't like preaching in a shirt that's just wrinkled and stained.
And like, I don't care how I look.
I'm not saying that it matters.
Jesus's word goes beyond how we look, but I prefer to wear a shirt that's been ironed.
Why?
Because I grew up around a culture that, you know, said, don't look like a slob.
Like, what part of it is part of that is because like so much of his image hangs on this, like, he can't get sick.
He can't, he can't get in a car wreck, like, any of that kind of stuff.
If it made the news, it'd be like, would that look bad?
Like, God, where is God?
I think it's both.
Where's his power?
It's both.
Okay.
My uncle, when he was as a young boy, he was like that already, tucked in shirts.
I was the same way.
My dad used to make fun of me and go, you're just like your uncle, because I wouldn't, I would like cry and yell as like a five-year-old if my shirt was untucked and it wasn't like in my tidy whiteys.
True story.
My mom still teases me to this day.
In the tidy way.
And that's my, yeah, my uncle is just that way.
So people sometimes say, oh, he.
not that you guys are doing this, but people try to read in a lot of, oh, he does that so that, you know, he can keep the charade going.
No, even if my uncle were a CEO, he would be very regimented, very healthy, and very disciplined.
And if you're late, that plane is taking off without you.
He doesn't care.
He's a strong personality, which you don't end up like him and have a power position if you're not at least dominant in some level.
He's very much like that.
I feel like I've been talking a lot.
Kyle, you got anything you want to ask?
I don't want to say anything because I feel like you're just going to steamroll right over here.
Steamroll?
I think his feelings are hurt.
Feelings are hurt.
Sorry.
We'll go to a therapist later.
I'm sorry.
We need to work something out for a few minutes here.
I guess.
Can you hold on?
We need counseling.
Yeah, you guys, you guys do what you got to do.
I understand.
If you need any pastoral counseling, I'm here.
Yeah, he's here.
Any of you guys speak any words of victory over us?
Anything like that?
So, I mean, so did you actually go to the Healing Crusades, like catch people, knock people over?
And what's the story there?
He stood off to the side.
He said in his book.
Sorry.
I did, but I also, remember, my job was a catcher.
So I did catch a lot.
Yeah, I was a catcher, personal assistant, all that.
Kind of jack of all trades when you're a nephew, you get hired and it's like write a passage type stuff.
So you do everything.
Was the duster present?
I actually encourage people in a weird, in a weird, sick way.
I liked the duster because I think it, but think about this, guys.
You, as a young guy, you're obsessed with like riches.
And you're living like your uncle's like LeBron Jaynes, like that level.
And you're, and my dad and him are close.
So I'm like the favorite nephew and I'm around and I'm in the garage.
I used to look around and I'm like, man, I can't wait till one day I have my own garage like this and it goes under and it's like, you know, the movie, like cribs, the back.
There's people that could live in my uncle's garage.
Like that's how nice it is and how pristine it is.
That level with cars parked a certain way and lined up in certain spots.
And I'm like, man, I can't wait.
Someone's going to dust my car one day.
I'm going to go out.
I'm going to be blinging like that.
So that was how I viewed it all.
But I was around all of it.
I was a catcher, et cetera.
And then I can honestly say, I think I'm one for, man, I'm probably one.
I'm probably batting like, you know, 0.068 on slaying people in the spirit.
I think I'm one for 40 on people failing when I prayed for them.
And I think it's because I really didn't sell it.
I just didn't have that charisma.
And one gal actually after, this is during my, I might have put this in the book.
This was during real, like real ministry transitional season where I was going through some stuff.
I did an altar call one Sunday.
And instead of doing the normal, like some in the Calvinist group to the camp, we tend to like just annihilate people that do altar calls or any type of response.
And, you know, I don't, I don't know if it's healthy to say, well, they're all a bunch of Arminian heretics.
No, there is something some churches do where they're like, if you really feel God moving in your heart right now and the Holy Spirit taking hold of your mind, if your mind has changed, I mean, using all proper terminology, we want to know, come talk to us.
We're going to walk you through what it means to be a real Christian.
So, come over to this room after we want to pray with you.
That's just helpful response time, giving people a bridge.
But I was doing those ones where come forward and I want to pray for you, and the anointing is going to hit you.
I really tried to go there and I was trying to be my family.
And I lay hands on people.
One gal falls, nobody else does.
So, I'm really stuck.
I'm like, okay, I got to sell this.
So, I'm just like, Yeah, Lord, Lord, just touch them and anoint them in Jesus' name.
Amen.
We love you guys.
We'll see you next week.
I kind of get out of there fast.
This gal comes up to me after and goes, Hey, let me tell you something right now.
And she knew me.
She was my babysitter when I was a kid.
She said, You don't got to do none of that.
The word's just fine.
And I was like, What?
Like, preaching the word is just fine.
Works just fine.
She said, Preaching the word works just fine.
And I was half embarrassed and half, half excited and relieved because people weren't falling from my hand.
They didn't view me that way.
I thought at the time I don't have an anointing.
So I, you know, was like, finally, I don't have to be pressured to be like him.
Then you come to find out more after and study.
And so that's my background on trying to slay people.
I never, I never had a lot of success with it.
And one guy, one, I've healed one guy, quote unquote.
This can, yep, somebody will blog about this now.
A guy came up to me on a Sunday.
I was in the Bible church world and he's like, Pastor, I just, man, can you just pray for me?
Like, I can't lift my arm and he couldn't lift his arm.
He's like, and I just want to praise God this morning.
I want to just be able to lift my hands and sing.
I'm not trying to put on no show or be all.
I just, I can't lift my shoulder.
Will you pray for me?
Oh, sure.
And so I prayed for him.
And after he just comes running up to me, he's like, You got to be kidding me.
Look at my arms.
And he's raising his hands and singing.
And he, he was homeless.
So he actually was one of those radical, like, people that got saved.
And I don't know what happened.
I think he still needed soldier shoulder surgery at some point after.
So it wasn't a miracle like God redid the tendons.
But that was the one time where I'm like, I don't know what happened.
The guy suddenly could lift his shoulder.
I don't start a healing ministry.
So those are my two.
I think one person fell and it was fake for sure.
They were just doing me a favor.
And one homeless guy could suddenly raise his hands on a Sunday and was just pumped to sing for Jesus.
And other than that, I've never healed anyone.
And I'm kidding.
I didn't heal him.
But that, those would be the only good stories I have for you guys.
Well, we're going to let John MacArthur know that you healed somebody.
We're going to notify you.
You listen to me.
Phil Johnson tells a story.
He prayed his knee, he couldn't even walk.
I think he busted his knee in a pothole or something.
He was preaching overseas.
He prayed and the pain went away, but he still had to get surgery after.
So he calls it a remarkable providence that God, in his kindness, relieved the knee.
He was able to do ministry.
And then he got home and still had to get his knee.
You asked Phil Johnson about that story.
And Phil, if you're listening, we're the same boat, man.
So you got demoted from the big leagues and they sent you down to like Triple A ball because you couldn't knock people over.
Yeah, I had to go down to a farm league.
I had no choice but to become a Calvinist.
I imagine the falling over is kind of like if you're a rock band and the people mosh, like that's the response you need to get validated if you're a prosperity gospel preacher, like you are the healing preacher.
You need that response.
And I've been to concerts where like I saw Lint Biscuit one time back in my sinful days.
There's a secular band.
There's secular band.
Before they were famous, they were opening for Primus, which people probably know Primus is.
And he was so mad at the audience for not moshing to their music.
He likes cussed everybody out.
So has Benny Kinn ever done an event where nobody fell down and he just cussed everybody out?
Like for no cussing, no cussing.
But here's the deal.
You guys can go on YouTube and you've seen this before.
And I've been taught this before.
I used to wonder why we sang for so long and why we wear everybody out, yeah.
And so you guys are laughing.
I'm dead serious.
That's the strategy.
I'm sorry.
Stop laughing.
Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, enough, enough, enough.
No, kidding.
So if you were to want people, if you want to get the response you really need from people, you've got to prime them.
And so we, all of that, and it was the power of suggestion.
When I pray for you, some of you are going to feel a tingling in your spine.
You know, all that stuff.
Okay.
That is all power of suggestion designed to ensure that people respond the right way.
Well, you'll see sometimes my uncle get angry.
I've had another family member do this.
And don't grieve the Holy Spirit.
You know, all that stuff.
That is all frustration as things aren't going and feeling the way that the leader wants it to.
And they start rebuking their people.
In fact, I've been in meetings after where someone will get named.
So so-and-so, you know, if I were to say, Kyle, yes, sir.
Don't let Jeff or Dan catch anymore.
I don't want them catching.
They're ruining the anointing.
That is that whole segment.
They're just dead.
No healings, no power, no prayer.
I shall have the Lord leave.
The Holy Spirit literally.
So don't do it again.
You tell him, or he's fired.
That happened.
I'm probably yelling.
Sorry.
That is how that's how it goes sometimes in the back.
Why?
Well, because things didn't flow as good.
And so you got to blame people, the atmosphere, the music.
This, you know, just like, you know, Fred Durst or Hearst, whatever his name was, right?
Gets up, yells at everyone.
It's the fans' fault.
It's the production team's fault.
You feel the Holy Spirit leave.
Oh, totally.
So it's everyone's fault as if, yeah, the sovereign God.
Again, the Holy Spirit's like, please play the right song so I can be here.
You know, that idea is just so like the Holy Spirit's like a frightened stray cat that you're trying to like get used to your house and just keeps trying to run away.
Dude, and you know what they do?
They play on, and remember, I said there's a verse for everything: the don't grieve the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit's like a dove.
Well, what do they do?
What's a dove like?
Doves are white, they're dainty, they're elegant, they're they're almost skittish.
And you can teach some inferred reality that's not reality about the Holy Spirit.
Now you're turning him into this nervous, skittish, don't grieve me.
I have feelings, you're always hurting me.
And they play that up.
And then what happens if you've not been taught proper theology or ever just loved on enough that someone would love you enough to tell you the truth?
You grew up with this idea that you're always on eggshells about the Holy Spirit.
So when some guy gets up there and yells, or one family member was screaming so loud once at the crowd and at the band and the choir, they refused to stop singing the same song and the same line in the song over and over.
And after I remember asking, why'd you do that?
And she said, it was a woman.
She said, Costi, you've got these people sometimes that are hard as rocks.
You got to break through until the anointing.
You got to find the anointing.
You got to sing until you find it.
You got to break through.
That's what we do.
We sing until we, like Jacob, we wrestle with God.
And I'm like, this sounds exhausting.
Sounds like a cult.
Well, I mean, I've had a session with cults that a lot of the stuff in your book, you've talked about like, yeah, that blaming people for their unbelief and stuff.
Dude, the thing with your uncle getting cancer and then it basically being ostracized as if because it didn't fit the narrative of the family or whatever, that was really felt very cultish, shocking.
Yeah, because he played softball on a Sunday or something like that.
I mean, all that was just, and got around negative people.
And it just, yeah, there's, it is.
And yeah, you're right.
I mean, it's all around a personality.
They don't need to read their Bible because he'll just give them the truth, right?
It's kind of then he will be the.
Yep.
And here's another.
Let me give you, let me give you something to add to that, too.
I, if you ever sat with my uncle just to help people, yeah, if you ever do, I'll tell you right now, his Bible is so worn out.
And fellas, he knows it.
He knows his Bible.
There's notes in the margin.
That thing is full.
So here's the thing.
There are guys now who drive Lamborghinis and never read their Bible and they're just fancy pants, you know, preachers of LA, whatever.
And they just throw out some random quotes, right?
Copy-paste.
John MacArthur.
Yeah.
My uncle, he is studies like crazy.
He just studies the wrong stuff.
And he loves the word.
I say that from the way he acts and the way he looks at it.
And he's really intense about it.
And he could teach about the, you know, the ephod and the priesthood and the temple.
And he could, he could take you to Israel right now and give you the best tour you've ever had and give you a historical background on all of the holy sites, verbatim quoting the old Testament and the new.
And that is what blows my mind and why I, I constantly would pray for him, or I, i'm like man, you gotta know.
Like you know, you're under pressure.
When you said you repent and you're done with all that and the holy spirit's mad.
Recently you got five to ten phone calls in the first hour, all from big name people because you're their cash cow, like you know.
You know you could just back out of this thing because you know the truth, but you are under so much pressure because you are.
You are the money man for so many people and you're the face of something.
And even people like Patricia King, that prophetess lady with the spiky hair, she walked it back.
You know what Benny means.
She didn't even talk to my uncle yeah, and?
And so what do they all do?
They got to mitigate for the front man because if he goes down and he goes, i'm out.
I'm just going to preach the bible.
This stuff's a bunch of baloney.
I went and just decided to quote Oral Roberts.
And you know my, my date bible.
And just try to be like Catherine Coleman, because I had, you know, fatherhood issues and I, my dad, said I wouldn't amount to anything, and so I attached to Catherine and I copied her ministry and I showed my dad that I could be something in this world as an immigrant.
It was all that.
But I know my bible and I probably should just teach it.
So i'm going to do that in my little studio and just love on people and give them the real gospel and not wear ten thousand dollar suits anymore.
If he did that, an entire market would would implode yeah so um, my uncle knows his bible, he knows the true gospel, he knows what things should be.
He's just in the wrestling match of his life right now, and so I I i'm constantly praying for God's grace to explode and just mess, mess the whole thing up.
But um, he's not one of those guys that doesn't know anything, he's a real smart.
Yeah yeah, that was one of the main questions our subscribers wanted to know was, yeah, how much of it does how much of the gospel does Benny Hin know and just reject, or is it, you know?
Is he just in it for the money and he knows the truth.
Yeah, he has a, he has a system of beliefs and he's very sincere in them.
But he's off like right, because I imagine some of these, I imagine it's a spectrum for anybody.
But I yeah, i'm wondering him.
I yeah, Justin Peters has said to me before, brother i've, i've heard your uncle preach a better gospel than some Baptist preachers.
You know Justin, with his southern jaw uh he, he has said that to me and I and we have we've heard my uncle preach a, a powerful gospel presentation.
It's the plus stuff, it's gospel plus, it's the after, it's the extra.
And to be honest uh, you know, whatever cliche you like, a broken clock is right twice a day or more.
Biblically uh, Paul writing to the church at Corinth.
Uh the the, the devil himself, looking like a angel of light.
His false prophets are uh, they look like workers of righteousness, like hears, heretics and false teachers.
Don't show up, you know, with a bunch of like demonic red minions around them with pitchforks and horns, and they're all like with fire, like super book.
The fire is coming off of them.
You know all that stuff, like some animated children's program, and they're like we're going to deceive you and you're going to be part of our cult.
They, they look good.
There's a.
You know it's a drop of poison in a barrel of truth.
You know that idea.
Um, so my uncle knows yes and, and like you said it's, it's a spectrum.
He I, I believe, now more than ever in the age and stage of life, just from the conversations I have with different family members and are around the the orbit of this whole situation he knows he's going to meet God soon.
Uh, he he's wrestling through his past and um, there are some people in the family that are very angry with me and they would prefer all this go away and no one ever talk about it.
And our pride as a family would prefer as well that it all go away and you just leave us.
Let us change and leave us alone.
You know we don't want to answer for anything, we just want to change.
And that's not real repentance right, that's remorse.
Let's make it okay.
Let's don't talk about it, let's just we're we're, we're not going to do that anymore.
That's just telling the cop.
Hey no, please don't put me in prison.
I, I just I won't kill anyone anymore okay, i'm just gonna, and I won't rob anyone and steal, i'll just just.
I know it's wrong.
So can this just be okay?
And unfortunately, repentance doesn't match that narrative.
Repentance is, i'm done like Zacchaeus.
Hey, here we go.
I don't care what you think i'm out, i'll pay you back if I can whatever, but i'm going to follow Jesus.
I'm different and I don't care what you think it's Paul.
I mean going from persecuting the church to getting, you know, mugged by the Pharisees and they, you got to be hated, you got to.
The pendulum has to swing the other way.
So he knows enough for that to be uh, a reality, at least mentally.
But you guys know, and I know God has to change the heart.
He's the only one who can, coming up next for Babylon, be Subscribers.
Well, and I know we're satire and funny and parody and Babylon Bee and John Macarth are dropping elbows from the rafters on Osteen and all the funny other things you guys do, but in the end right, it's all meant to trigger real thought.
That's what humor does.
We're adding comic relief to things that are deadly serious.
He's probably knocked over more people than Mike Tyson, though.
Yeah, it's true.
More knockouts.
Sorry.
That is true.
Has he ever knocked somebody over so hard that it actually made him worse rather than better?
I got you covered.
We're coming back to that because that's probably one of the best questions we've had.
So thank you.
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