In this episode of The Babylon Bee podcast, editor-in-chief Kyle Mann and creative director Ethan Nicolle welcome guest host Kira Davis who is editor-at-large at RedState. They talk about the difference between protesting and rioting, some problems Kira sees with the approach of Candace Owens, and how we need to have a reality show where everyone gets stuck in an elevator with someone they hate until we achieve world peace. In the subscriber portion, Kyle, Ethan, and Kira talk about Black Lives Matter (as an organization and as a movement), where peace is found in this world, how Kanye is buying up Wyoming, serial killers, sending kids off to college, and that Trump photo-op with the Bible. Kira can be regularly heard on her podcast Just Listen To Yourself. Pre-order the new Babylon Bee Best-Of Coffee Table Book coming in 2020! Get a Sneak Peak! Send your emails to podcast@babylonbee.com and maybe we will answer you in our next Mailbag segment! Show Outline Introduction Kyle, Ethan, and Kira talk about the weird "pacman" masks that allow the coronavirus conscious person to eat out at their favorite restaurant and how Kyle has never seen a Tarantino movie. Main Topics Kira Davis has some disagreements with Candace Owens. Kira Davis responds to Ethan's 13 year old daughter on issues of social justice, race, and protests. Paid-subscriber portion Black Lives Matter Trump Photo Op Also mentioned on the podcast: Just Listen To Yourself With Kira Davis- Episode 37- Black Lives Matter To watch or listen to the full length podcast, become a paid subscriber at https://babylonbee.com/plans
In a world of fake news, we bring you up-to-the-minute factual inaccuracy and a heavy dose of moral truth with your hosts, Kyle Mann and Ethan Nicole.
This is the Babylon Bee.
Fake news you can trust.
All right, everybody, welcome to the Babylon Bee Podcast.
This is a special episode where we have Kira Davis with us.
Yay!
Lucky.
Our fan favorite.
This is our first time on video with Kira.
I'm so sorry, but we haven't had a lot of live.
We started our video podcast and COVID has kept so many people away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I reschedule.
Plus, we live out in the middle of nowhere.
Because of COVID.
Yeah.
And we want everybody to know that we are all wearing masks.
Yeah.
But there are those invisible ones.
We're green, and then we just were having special effects, put our mouth back on.
Mine is just a mask of my actual face, and the lips are.
That's one of those animatronic flesh masks.
Yeah, exactly.
Animatronic flesh masks.
You can eat through it.
You don't need to worry about fully compliant.
Fully compliant.
It's creepy.
I saw those ones that you could eat through, and it was like the Pac-Man, and then it would open in the back.
That's when I was like, you know what?
This is over.
We're not going to lie.
This is it.
We're done with all this.
Ethan has a cigar smoking mask.
You just put like a hole.
You drill the hole right through it.
It kind of spirals open.
Oh, God.
I've seen one that was Carrie Washington, the actress, Carrie Washington's mouth, because she is very well known for her mouth expressions.
And I also happen to have a completely irrational and unfounded hatred for Carrie Washington as an actress.
Like no reason.
I don't even know who it is.
She was in scandal.
Any relation to Denzel?
No.
George?
No, that's fine.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I do know that she's everywhere and I can't stand her as an actress.
And again, it's completely unfounded and totally unfair.
It's just too.
Yeah.
I have no good reasoning for it.
So anyway, my friends keep John Assembly Carrie Washington Mouth Max.
Okay.
Yeah, I have no idea who she is.
All these newbies are listing.
Never seen them.
Django Unchained is the one that I recognize, but I haven't seen it.
You haven't seen Django Unchained?
I have never seen a Quintaranton film.
I've never seen a Tarantino film.
If I were to watch a Tarantino film, what should I watch?
What would be the first?
Holy cow, that is a tough one.
What do you think, Ethan?
The Gateway Tarantino.
I'm soured on.
I'm a little bit more dogs, probably.
And Kill Bill, I kind of got like, it felt gratuitous.
And I was just like, I'm kind of sick of this.
I don't know.
That's what he is, though.
Gratuitous.
Yeah, he is gratuitous.
There's something about it.
I don't know.
I'm not as much of a Tarantino, like, yeah, Tarantino like a lot of film people are.
Yeah.
But I mean, and the other thing is I loved pulp fiction, but it was as a high schooler when I was my tastes were horrible.
So I don't know if I watched it again, if it would be as good as I remember it being.
It's not.
I watched it.
I did rewatch it a couple years ago.
Again, I was in cool.
It was just so brand new and nothing like that.
Yeah, I've never seen like it.
It blew me away.
And then I watched it a couple years ago and I was like, I don't know.
It was the thing that all those weird alternative kids liked to me.
I was like, eh.
But then again, here's an interesting question.
Is it that the movie doesn't hold up, or is it that because it was so groundbreaking, we've seen it done a million times now?
That's true.
That's probably true.
That's like when you watch old comedy.
Exactly.
All those jokes have been done, but we don't remember.
Charlie Shaplan invented a lot of stuff.
It's so dumb, but it's called the Seinfeld is unfunny effect.
Because people will go back and watch Seinfeld and they'll say, oh, every sitcom has done this.
You know, well, they were the ones to do it first.
I guess so.
So, unless you think Seinfeld's unfunny, you gave me a look there.
No, I gave you the look.
It was like, I'd never heard that phrase before.
Okay.
Seinfeld is, of course, the funniest thing.
Well, you like Norm McDonald, so I figured you'd be able to do it.
But I tried to get my son to watch Seinfeld recently because he's been rolling through the Netflix cute.
Like, well, he refuses to watch Friends.
He won't do that because why?
Because it's problematic?
No, because all his friends are watching it.
He doesn't want to be like all his friends.
He's a friends.
Yeah.
And then, but I told him he's gone through the office, Parks and Rec.
He's on community now.
I keep telling him to move on to Scrubs.
But Seinfeld is the one thing he won't watch.
He won't watch it.
He's like, I don't have to watch it.
I've seen clips of it and it is the least funny thing I've ever seen.
I'm like, what?
It's a horrible thing to say.
No, it was a scratch.
Wait, was it Seinfeld or Friends?
You started on starting Seinfeld at the end.
He won't watch Friends, but Friends is kind of the thing that all of the kids are moving through now because it's almost like historical relic.
Some are trashing it as very problematic, but most are like, they've never heard that kind of comedy before.
They're not allowed to hear it.
So it's actually kind of a cult.
It's had a cult reawakening on Netflix with the kids.
Older comedies are bubbling up because they're probably so inappropriate now.
Yeah.
Even The Office.
Yeah.
It's considered an older comedy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We re-watch The Office all the time.
Like we're just constantly going through The Office.
No, I don't know.
And you watch the early seasons.
You're like, this would never get made.
Yeah.
But it's the best show.
It's still.
I don't think it's offensive.
And then obviously, like, the characters are supposed to be bad.
Like, that's the whole point, right?
Right.
And they always think that if you show it, you're approving of it.
Yeah.
You know, versus saying, like, this character is a bad person.
And that's why they're like, we're not even allowed to show the bad people, which is going to be really sucky for comedy moving forward.
Yeah, that's how you mock bad ideas and bad behavior.
We're not even allowed to talk about the bad ideas.
Right.
That's the thing we're not even allowed to even have the bad ideas represented in any way.
Like now we're looking at what's going on in our cities right now with police brutality and Black Lives Matter and everything.
But the overreaction has been to try to erase every positive representation of police officers in entertainment.
And so to even acknowledge that there are such a thing as police officers is become, I mean, we live in strength.
Jesus is coming back, y'all.
Any day.
If you had to guess, like date.
Yeah.
What would it be?
Yeah, like a date would probably be today at about 11.59.
Well, no one will see this then because it's coming out later.
Oh, well.
No time to add it.
Maybe we don't know.
There might be, you know, podcasts in heaven.
We don't know what it's going to look like.
We might actually have to take this and upload it to the cloud.
Oh, my gosh, ladies and gentlemen.
Wow.
So you're against canceling Paw Patrol.
Absolutely.
For chase.
And I know many, many mothers who are very much against it.
It is the only thing their children will sit still for.
So, no.
Once you cross the suburban mom demographic, get it.
No, they're not going for it.
Well, the thing is that Chase, the whole Paw Patrol thing is it's a private security firm.
Like the Paw Patrol Tower and stuff.
It's just this kid rider that had died all these dogs.
Fan fiction writer for Paw Patrol or something.
No, it's not a city service.
It's just Ryder and his pup sitting in their tower and they're just like, hey, we'll go save people.
Yeah, but one is a cop.
It's like the liberty.
He's not really a cop.
He's just like a security dog.
Oh, he's not really a cop.
He's private security.
They're not really dogs.
It's not really real at all.
Don't tell my four-year-old.
He's getting a little old, though.
Yeah.
I don't know how.
I don't know how we got here, but we had kind of a plan for some topics, but this is how it is with Kira.
We love Kira because it's just recording.
The episode is happening.
Is this thing on?
Are we even recording?
I'll tell you why I told you this, you guys, this the last time when I was in.
I get the most responses from appearances on the B podcast.
Wow.
I get the most conversions from like to Christianity.
No, no, I don't think so.
But to my podcast.
So people will hear me on your podcast and people find mine.
I get a lot of letters from people who are like, I found you on the B and I wanted to hear more.
But this audience I love.
There's something about this audience that translates well to my own audience.
So I love being here and I love chatting with you guys because I think, like life, there's just a lot of different interesting subjects to cover.
And I also get to talk about it in a way here that I can't, I don't have the same freedom in my political work, which is always faith-based.
And that's where I feel all the answers are.
So I can be honest about that and open about that.
Whereas other times I have to couch it in a larger discussion because I'll just get kicked out of the discussion if I leave with you need Jesus or y'all gonna hell.
But that people don't like it when you say that.
You can talk about hell as much as you want here.
Awesome.
Go off.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Well, you had some words to say recently about Candace Owens.
You want to talk about that?
Well, you guys heard?
Yeah.
I shared.
Yeah, I shared it.
And then I got reprimanded by some friends who are Candace fans.
Did you?
I saw you shared it and I was curious about it because I was like, I wonder what Ethan thinks of me.
I mean, she's technically a friend of the show in the sense that we did interview her.
And I know that Seth's a huge fan.
Is Seth a dish?
Because I saw, because I posted, I shared and I said, I didn't say get rid of Candace Owens.
I said less Candace, more Kira, only to say, we hear from Candace constantly.
And we don't hear from Kira nearly enough.
You need more retweets and shares.
So I like your message much more.
Thank you.
And I saw Seth shared more Candace.
So the nation's tagging Seth.
He didn't tag me, but I got the sense that he was responding to me.
Are we picking a side here?
I don't know.
Do we have to?
Should we shoot Kira or Candace?
No, you don't.
I'll pick Kira because I'm sitting here with her.
Oh, okay.
That's good.
Well, your mom likes me too.
And I think she's the one who shared your comments with Candace Owens.
It was, I wrote an article for those who don't know about Candace Owens the other day.
It's called The Trouble with Candace.
Something that's been on my mind for a while, but I didn't want to write it or talk about it because of, well, really, the same reason for all the criticisms I'm getting right now.
Is it like the trouble with Apu?
Oh, yeah.
Are you trying to cancel Candace?
This is what I'm hearing.
Oh, my gosh.
Right.
I'm trying to cancel Candace.
I'm trying to take away the my favorite isn't trying to strip away our First Amendment rights.
Like we're both in opinion, right?
We're both in the opinion industry.
So it's literally my job to have opinions on people.
That doesn't mean I'm trying to strip anyone of their First Amendment rights.
That's the first reaction of our die-hard conservatives.
You're trying to tear my free white track.
Freedom of speech.
I'm just talking.
Twitter.
Censorship.
I've grown more and more uncomfortable with Candace's approach and some of the things that she's saying as the longer she's been on the scene.
But I also believe, like a lot of people, that conservatives have a tendency to eat their own.
And I didn't want to like causing issues.
The few times I mentioned even the slightest thing, I was just attacked.
And so I was like, well, this isn't what I want.
I'm not gonna girls out there getting hers, good for her.
It's none of my business.
But as we've clearly devolved into the current situation we're in across the nation, it's become more and more clear to me that reasonable voices and healing voices need to step forward because we have some work to do to fix all this.
And that's the only reason I've ever done what I do in the political realm.
I've always had an idea that black Americans can have more access to prosperity, more access to success, education, the American dream by maybe diverting off of this path we've been following for the last 60, 70 years, voting the same way with no results.
And I believe that conservative values have the ability to provide prosperity.
That's why I'm a conservative quote activist, as some people call me.
And so in that respect, I have felt that Candace's voice wasn't helpful because it typically she leads with tearing black people down instead of I'm listening, I'm hearing a solution, and then here are my points.
Anyway, what inspired me to write it was Dave Chappelle's video the other day that he dropped.
I don't think we can call it comedy.
Yeah, but it was commentary.
And he talked about her, not very nicely, but he brought her up.
And it was the first time that I really thought my producer from my podcast, just listen to yourself, Hiro Davis, texted me the videos.
He's like, you got to watch this.
And I was like, you know what?
Maybe it's time for some other voices to step forward and tell people like Dave Chappelle, we're not all saying the same things.
I hear you.
There are some solutions to be had here from the right and from the left.
And not all of us think Candace is on the same page.
And I would say probably the majority of black conservatives feel like I do.
And we've never felt free to do experience.
But she's kind of become your spokesperson, which is already weird.
I can't imagine having a white spokesperson.
Right.
Like, I feel we need to get out of that whole idea that you need, you know, that you're all, oh, yeah, Candace Owens.
Yeah.
Nobody walks up and goes, oh, yeah, Sean Hannity or whatever.
Right.
Charlie Kirk.
And if they did, I'd be like, no, no.
I would be writing the trouble with Sean Hannity immediately in my blog the next day.
Will wit right here.
Will you got the you need to pop the collar a little more?
Papa.
So what I saw Candace had like a viral thing.
I didn't watch it.
What was she talking about?
What was Candace's?
Which one?
I don't know.
I thought you were responding to something.
No, I was responding to Dave Chappelle.
I was responding to Dave Chappelle.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, because he was Candace.
But what I was saying was that.
So you're responding to a response to a response?
Basically, this is all we do in this industry.
That's all this is.
I think his main thing he said about her was that she's the most articulate idiot, which is his words.
I'm not saying she's an idiot.
And I actually disagreed with that.
I don't think she's particularly articulate.
I think that she has a lot of talking points, some of which have merit, by the way.
Which I, you know, some of the things I say as well.
She quotes a lot of statistics that are true.
She's not lying about those things.
But what I see is a young woman who was thrust into the spotlight perhaps before she was ready.
So she doesn't have, and she was a new convert also to conservatism.
So she doesn't have the base of knowledge to back up her points or to have a debate or discussion about, okay, here's this number, but here's why this number is a problem or how we can fix this number.
She doesn't have the knowledge to discuss those issues.
So for instance, she did a forum with a lot of people, Katrina Pearson, who's Trump's on Trump's Black Outreach team and a friend of mine.
T.I., the rapper T.I., Killer Mike, like a bunch of pop culture personalities, her, Katrina, and I can't remember.
There's another black conservative on there, but I can't remember.
But it was, I watched the whole thing and it was difficult to watch because T.I. is an amazing producer and a very intelligent businessman, but he's in a realm that he doesn't necessarily understand.
He's not saying the most engaging, intelligent things, but even what he was saying, she couldn't really respond to.
And for me, it was painful to watch because I was like, oh, well, she's starting with the point.
She's making a good point, but she couldn't elaborate.
She just got eaten alive.
So she's better regurgitating than for now.
Again, it might just be that she's young and new.
Yeah.
For now.
But anyways, I wrote the article not to take apart Candace.
And I understand that it came off like that.
I don't know that there was a way that it could.
This is how everything's taken now, right?
Oh, you're taking that side now?
Yeah, right.
I don't.
So I did, I wrote it not to do that, but I wrote it to say that for those of us who are who are in this business to actually find solutions to actually reflect, I think of myself as a writer's mirror of what's going on.
She's making it difficult for us to go into our communities and make the case for conservatism, which I do believe is the best way out of poverty and traditional oppression for the black community.
And she's got this Blexit movement, but I don't think that it's really aimed at persuasion.
There's different personality types that there are people within the black community that do respond to her style.
I don't think it's many.
Not many.
I think a lot, my suspicion is a lot of the black people that I see, like with her at the White House and Red Hats and stuff, a lot of them were already conservatives.
So they've already had their own awakenings.
I'm not saying that she shouldn't be doing it or whatever, but in the article, and I know this is going to sound awkward, but I just have to like put it out there.
Got to be honest.
And I said this in the article.
We are a massive platform.
So get ready.
Ready for the blowback.
It will be.
Y'all are going to get a lot of comments on this one.
No, well, this is all her, just to be clear.
Okay, yeah.
We disavowed.
Solving Kyle and Ethan.
Slowly roll this way.
Sorry, continue.
If I look at who's responding most to Candace's appeals, it's white people.
It's not black people.
So when I, so if we're talking about who your audience is and what you're trying to do, I don't know.
It's something to think about.
If I have a criticism for Candace, I've got one black person in my timeline and a million white people.
But most of us in the black conservative community are offline chatting, we're texting, we're having phone calls, we're zooming.
Like we talk all the time about this, how we're not comfortable.
And maybe that's not her fault.
Maybe it's the audience's fault.
Oh, yeah, she's been lifted up to that.
I remember when we saw her.
Did I like not do it if someone did that to me?
No.
I mean, she's like a superstar.
Remember we saw her this at Prager event, and she was just signing autographs.
And just it's like, you know, the kid, there was junior hires at our table with young girls.
They didn't care about anybody.
Jordan Peterson walks by.
They're like, some old guy.
Deandis Prager's there.
Some old guy.
Ronald Reagan walks by.
All of a sudden, there's Candace Owens.
They're up.
They want autographs.
Didn't even seem like the, you know, they just knew she was on the internet a lot.
Well, we have a surprise for you.
Candace Owens is in the next room.
That'd be amazing if we didn't do that, though.
If we had prepared for that, I've gotten a lot of, why don't you reach out to Candace and mentor her?
And it's like, it's not my obligation to get along with every other black person.
You know, like, it's not my obligation to mentor her or reach out to her just because I'm black.
Yeah, like imagining somebody said to me, why don't you reach out and mentor to Sean Hannity?
White folks, white conservative pundits come to each other all the time, and there's no one telling them, why don't you guys just get along?
You're on the same side.
It's like, we're not babies and we're not arguing.
She's not even arguing with me.
I don't even know she knows who I am.
She's not arguing with me at all.
As far as I know, I'm not even on her radar.
So, but it's just a disagreement.
This isn't rage.
This isn't division.
This is disagreement.
But there is a sense on the right that those of us on the right who are black are not allowed to disagree with each other, which is infantilizing.
Yeah, totally.
So dumb.
So you wouldn't describe her as clean and articulate.
I mentioned that in the article too.
You did.
Yeah, I say how people describe her as articulate a lot.
And it makes me cringe because like white people.
So white people share posts and say, yeah, this girl's really articulate.
It's listening how smart she is.
No, they don't say how smart she is.
I hear so many white conservatives describe her as articulate, and it makes me cringe.
I find it reminiscent of how white liberals condescendingly fawned all over Obama as articulate.
Well, it wasn't that Obiden that called him clean and articulate.
Yeah.
Now he's running for president.
You read the whole quote.
It's really bad.
It gets worse the more.
No, it's like it never gets better.
Yeah.
So I, I, again, I'm, I feel like maybe we should move on.
I'm spending too much time talking about Candace.
I don't want, I don't have any ill feelings towards her, or I don't think she's dumb.
And I'm not like other, some people think she's a grifter, and I'm not in that camp.
I just think she's a new convert.
Like when I first became a Christian and I didn't know much about the Bible and I didn't know much about the arguments for the Bible, but the first thing I did, yeah, was like, went home and told my mother that if she didn't believe in Jesus, she was going to go to hell.
It was like, not because I wanted her to go to hell, but it was because I wasn't mature enough in my faith to know how that looked and to lead with grace, not lead with punishment.
And so I don't think it helps the cause of racial reconciliation and peace if we're if our rhetoric is always inflammatory.
I don't know how that is winning over black communities.
I want black communities to come over to the conservative side and start trying to implement conservative values in their in their policies and politics in black communities.
That's what I want.
I think it even goes beyond race.
Like whenever if we go to a conservative conference or we see people, you know, it's always like these young people that they elevate to be like the face.
It's like a supply and demand thing.
It's exciting.
There's not enough attractive young people.
So the ones they can find, they like elevate them up and like they hardly have even thought through their arguments.
Yeah.
They're making these dumb frustrating.
The church does it too.
You know, you find a young, young hip pastor and it's like, oh, he hasn't been to seminary.
He hasn't studied anything.
He just got converted last week.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Make him worship leader.
Yeah.
And yeah.
It's exciting.
We like to see these young people that share our views because we think it validates us.
Yeah.
You know, or something.
And maybe the race thing just adds on to that a little bit.
Well, and it really makes I think the leadership often really jazzes up the old people in the crowd and they see new people and they're like, oh, we're doing it.
We'll give some money.
And I don't even think it's all, it's not a dubious, like they're not doing it to get the money.
It's just maybe, but sometimes they are.
I think there's just a, I don't know.
I don't, I don't know what it is.
Well, no one's going to be lame.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
No one wants to be lame.
Conservatives don't want to be lame.
Churches don't want to be lame.
That's lame.
And so will be CP.
I like it too.
I'm cool with it.
But everybody, no one wants to be rejected.
And so when you're embraced by a culture that, whether that culture is youth or a different ethnicity or whatever, when you're embraced by that, there is a certain seduction in that as well.
I think that's why a lot of conservatives tend to get really excited when celebrities say conservative things.
And I'm almost like, I'm almost like, just leave this person alone.
Don't jinx them.
Well, and the fact they were always like, we don't care what celebrities think.
Right.
Until they're saying it.
Kanye's a conservative.
And I knew that was going to happen.
When Kanye came out and was like Trump, I was like, y'all conservatives, leave Kanye alone.
Leave him alone.
Stop writing articles about him.
Stop holding him up.
Stop posting videos about him.
I mean, he released that concept album last year, year before.
And it's his church album, right?
I never had so many old white conservatives listening to rap in my life.
And they were like, this is, oh, this is so good.
They never listened to any of Kanye's music ever.
And suddenly, they're like, this is so good.
And I'm like, you all are going to drive him away.
He will not be a spokesperson for these values because it's cringy.
Did his concerts change like the demographics?
So there's all these elderly folks.
That'd be interesting.
You might trick me.
And that's what happened between him and Candace.
She got way too excited about him because he blew up her spot.
Fair enough.
Oh, yeah.
I would have been blockers too.
But I kept thinking the whole time, every time I would see their videos together or see her talk about him, I would think she should be very careful.
She's starting to sound like she's attaching herself to him and that's going to drive him away because he's an entertainer.
He's not a politician.
He's not a politician.
And she's in politics.
And that's exactly what happened.
He was like, I don't like this.
I'm not comfortable with this.
So I'm separating myself from this.
I learned that with girls.
It took me till I was like in my 30s.
Still a little clinging with your wife to be.
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah, I married her.
Yeah, we need to think of some white super needy.
We need to find some white musician that we can convert to.
No, that we can convert.
Yeah.
And then Scott Stebbin's bowl.
No, they should be like liberal or kind of whatever.
And then oh, they convert him.
Oh, a liberal white person that you like musician or I don't know.
Yeah, once again, I like when you make the parallel of white, how weird it is.
It doesn't make any sense.
What about Celine Dion?
Like if we converted Celine Dion to conservatism.
And then cling to her.
Yeah.
And cling.
Yeah, she's sharing all our posts and stuff.
Yeah, these guys make a lot of sense.
She's like, I really like the way the Babylon B thinks.
Oh, yeah, that was the post, right?
Yeah, that was the post.
The post heard around the world.
Anyway, Candace, no heart feelings.
It's not a big deal.
It was something that needs to be, needed to be said.
And by the response, I think it did.
And then, and then that's that.
I don't have an obsession.
I'm not here to take down Candace.
I'm all for her going for hers.
All right.
Well, you talk.
Oh, sorry.
So, you're talking about not wanting to be lame.
I have a 13-year-old.
You have an 18-year-old?
I have an 18-year-old and that's soon to be 13-year-old.
Okay, so we're in somewhat of the same boat.
And I have a 10-year-old, so he's just kind of getting into this stuff.
But so, I thought it'd be interesting to do a portion called Respond to My 13-year-old's arguments.
Great.
Great.
Can this be ready for her respond to mine?
We do this all the time.
Yeah.
Let's try it.
This is the first time.
Okay.
I feel honored.
So she is all in on.
I mean, her name's Lily, by the way.
Hi, Lily.
She's, you know, she's passionate.
She's compassionate.
But she's also got the internet as a fire hose.
And now, I know, before you go on, I know at one point last year, you were a little bit iffy about social media for her.
What was the decision you guys came down on for that?
I mean, we wanted to trust her as much as possible.
So we pretty much let her have her Instagram account.
Now that she's older, too, you know, she's 13.
That's kind of the age we said she'd be able to have it.
Yeah.
We just as long as it's private.
I'm just Instagram at 13, which should be an awesome.
So as long as strangers can't contact her, as long as it's just friends that she's added.
So that's okay.
So it's just IG.
Does she have TikTok?
It's just friends.
Yeah.
Okay.
She does have TikTok.
Yeah.
Okay.
I ask you this because I think a lot of these questions are probably coming from Instagram and TikTok.
Oh, yeah.
My daughter is also totally.
She's regurgitating like stuff that I know, that I mean, I don't want to be condescending that no no no, I know that she's watched videos and she's saying things I've never like.
For instance, one of the first things she said was which I don't think she's ever thought about buildings having insurance but right saying sure, if you're more worried about these buildings being destroyed, they have insurance.
Okay, it doesn't matter that.
You know, the real issue is the black people are being killed right okay, so it's, you know that that's I caught.
I've never heard her talk like that, like that's okay, but that's.
But what to me?
Not to say it's not valid or an idea.
Yeah, that she read it.
It's not a discussion you're having at the dinner table, is what you're saying?
Her and my wife had that one.
Okay, it's interesting times, but I'm so interested in hearing what Lily thinks and I'd love to respond, okay.
So she started off.
She said everyone but white cisgendered men have gotten their opinions heard through protesting and riots.
It's part of American history.
What's happening right now?
Okay yes, I agree that protesting is not only a traditional way to get your voice heard.
It's also protected in the First Amendment.
Yes, rioting is not, and rioting is destroying the property and blood, sweat and tears of others.
So at 13, Lily might not be able to know, because she doesn't have the life experience that, what goes into building your own business, what goes into buying that piece of property that you put a taco bell in or a Kentucky fried chicken, which look like franchises to you but are actually owned by individual business owners who pay a franchise fee.
And so that business owner, it's very true, might have insurance, but the way insurance works is that it won't typically cover the full loss.
Most people who get hit will lose their businesses.
Many of those people are minorities or women owners, single moms.
And then what do you do from there?
So it's one thing to be out in the streets trying to be heard.
And that's what Dave Chappelle was saying in his comedy stand-up his thing, his Hannah Gatsby-ish thing.
His uncomedy stuff.
Yeah, that's probably the best way to put it.
He was saying, this is the streets talking.
And I've said that too on my podcast.
Don't dismiss the voice of the people just because it's not saying what you want it to say.
That's how we got Trump in 2016.
People dismissed the voice of the people.
So those people went to the ballot box.
Right.
So it's imperative.
Lily is absolutely right.
It's imperative that we remember that people need to be heard.
But people don't have the right to destroy each other, to destroy our hard-earned property, our hard-earned work.
And we don't have the right to take things from each other.
And so, you know, just be cognizant of that and don't break other people's things.
You know, that's one of the first lessons you learn.
And there's not a lot of forethought in these riots now.
So no one's going to black-owned businesses or Asian-owned businesses and going, hey, are you black-owned?
Okay, we're going to leave you alone.
That's not what's happening.
By the way, some of these riots have completely shelled out.
They're happening in majority black areas.
They shell out the neighborhoods.
They destroy these black-owned businesses.
And then all of the rioters leave.
And who's left to pick up the pieces?
Yeah.
It's the people there in the neighborhood.
Horrible.
So I appreciate Lily's point of view that protesting does bring change.
I do believe that.
We absolutely should.
That goes all the way back to the foundation.
I can't deny it.
I mean, especially on something this.
Certainly not.
Certainly not.
There's a difference between protesting and rioting.
I just want to say that we have a combination Taco Bell KFC.
Because this is America right down the street.
It's the most amazing country on the face of the earth.
And Kentucky Fried Tacos.
But what's the difference between the riots and like the Boston Tea Party where they're destroying stuff?
Because they threw stuff into the thing.
They did throw stuff in the thing, but they water, I think, is the thing.
It's water.
Stuff.
And it went in the thing.
The Boston Harbor.
Right.
They did.
But what they didn't do is then destroy the entire harbor.
They needed the harbor.
So it was like a targeted thing, we're protesting against this one thing.
So we're putting the tea in the harbor.
Making a big teapot in the harbor.
Yeah, I guess.
Yeah.
I guess the overall question, though, is what would be the equivalent today if these protests just went to the police station and like protested at the Minneapolis police station?
Like, is it equivalent to burning down our police station?
Right.
Throwing tea in the harbor.
I don't know.
I don't know if that's the hardest thing.
I guess the hard thing about it is I don't know if I thought about it long enough, but I don't know that it's a really great comparison.
Well, things were destroyed.
I guess it was now and as it was planned, right?
This is more like people go out to protest and then other people go and then it's just this kind of just becomes like a there's a difference between rage and rebellion.
Oh, I do think some it seemed like there was some planning going with certain groups.
Antifa and stuff.
Absolutely.
Why don't you read Lily's next?
Okay.
Let's see.
She said, there are white supremacists escalating these, causing the riots.
It's police shooting tear gas and rubber bullets that are making it worse.
You should have a degree.
Oh, so she's saying you should have a degree to be a policeman, like a doctor.
You should have to get like almost like a PhD to be a cop.
Okay.
And I wonder if I don't know if Lily knows what it takes to be a police officer.
So I guess if she was sitting in the front, we all kind of guessed and we didn't show that she knew where I knew.
Sure.
So, if I was sitting in front of her, I would just say, Well, tell me what it takes to be a police officer and how that it, you know, how we could improve that.
That's a question I'll ask, and I don't have the answer to either.
And then, also, I would say that I would ask, like, what is the line?
How far do you, if the police are, we're talking about a few bad apples in an institution that we absolutely need, I'm going to make an assumption here about Lillian and you guys and your lives.
It's my suspicion you have never really lived in a place where you depend desperately on the police to be there when you probably me more than her because I grew up in a very poor area of Oregon, a very small town known for its meth usage and there's a lot of crime.
So, we had had them call the cops a couple times.
We had stuff stolen out of our yard and stuff like that.
I never encountered murdering like that, but I know that it was happened regularly.
But yeah, I grew up in a different culture than my kids are up in because I grew up in, I grew up in low-income housing, you know, in a little dingy neighborhood.
Churches bring us food.
My dad's homeless.
So, yeah, so she, but yeah, not her.
And same for us, same for my kids, also, by the way.
But I tend to think that that is a point of view that comes from people who have never had to live in an area where the police are sometimes the only thing standing between you and absolute ruin or death.
So, there are a few bad apples, but that doesn't mean that the institution of policing is bad.
And police officers aren't a uniform, they're people too.
And so, if there are people throwing things, trying to set them on fire, trying to beat them up, if there are people trying to hurt innocent people, I would ask her to go look at some of the videos of people getting beaten in the streets, some to death.
Yeah, are the police, are the police supposed to stand by?
There are sometimes violence has to be combated with violence.
That's the only way.
I lived in an area that's why I'm actually pro-Second Amendment to this day when I used to be very anti-gun, because I lived in an area where it was very dangerous.
And I was alone with two kids.
My husband was off here in California for work and for four months.
And it was just me and the kids in the middle of the hood.
And we were having a rash of violent break-ins on our street, like the kind where they were taking old people and dragging them into the street and beating them to a pulp.
It was terrible.
And so, that was when I realized, okay, I have to be able to protect myself.
But there has to be some kind of law and order because if we aren't, if we aren't committed to protecting each other from violence, then that's chaos.
That's anarchy.
And a free society cannot operate on anarchy.
We can't.
And I don't know if she knows any cops personally.
I know I grew up because I grew up in the neighborhood.
Some of my friends became cops.
I just knew cops.
And there's a few people I know who very well that are cops.
So it at least helps them humanify.
Humanify.
Sure.
That's humanitization.
Humanitize.
Humanize.
That's humanize them.
I guess it sounds smart.
It's humanize.
We threw the stuff and the thing.
Hey.
What we humanized.
I would also thank Oli for like, but the underlying sentiment of that is that it's hurting her to see people speaking up and being seeming like they're being punished for that.
But that's actually not what's happening.
There are people in the streets who are protesting and there are people in the streets who are rioting and they're different people.
Yeah.
I mean, you have to, you see, just some of the footage of like, I mean, buildings are burning.
People are being beaten up.
There's things just rocks being thrown.
It's mayhem.
And I haven't heard of a, I assume there have been some cops shooting, actually, actual shooting at people.
I mean, I'm kind of amazed at the amount of restraint.
Yeah, so I think that's another word.
Well, what we're seeing, what we're witnessing now is a lot of police officers just refusing to do it.
A lot of them are integral, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't blame them as well.
Who wants to be a cop right now?
No.
You're truly a special person if you want to be a cop right now because now you're going to be held accountable for everything when your job is life-threatening every day.
I just, and cops are people.
Let's remember every, this is one of my appeals in the racial reconciliation conversation that I'm always having is that we, when we stop looking at the other person, whoever that other person is, the cop, your neighbor, your classmate,
when we stop looking at that, a conservative, a liberal, we stop looking at that person as a human being, as a purposefully created human being who has value totally outside of whatever their political views are, whatever their background was.
Once we stop looking at that person as a human being, then we have necessarily precluded ourselves from being a part of the solution because we're otherizing the people that we're supposed to be bonding with, that we're supposed to be finding solutions with together.
Police are part of our community too.
We need to find solutions with them, not against them.
If every human being in the world could accidentally get stuck on an elevator for a couple hours, trapped, and they'd have to get to know each other, just rotate out till we all do it.
The world would have perfect harmony, probably.
Reality shows that probably.
Is that your theory?
Probably.
Probably is my theory.
I don't know.
Is that a reality show already?
That's a great reality show.
You have a million seats.
I would love to do a reality show where they set up like, you know, like Ben Shapiro and like, who's like a far left, you know, somebody like Bill Maher or something.
I don't know.
I guess they'd talk.
They'd probably get along, actually.
Yeah, too reasonably.
Yeah.
And they get trapped in the elevator for like 12 hours.
And a transgender teenager or something.
Yeah, just like people that you want to see what happens.
And he'd absolutely clobber them.
They can't come out until they're friends.
Oh, geez.
I mean, there's some truly awful people out there.
Let's not pretend.
Everyone's a human being, but some human beings are grosser than others.
Yeah, what?
Hitler?
Yeah.
What about Hitler?
What about Hitler?
You stay in that elevator with Hitler?
He probably has some funny stories.
Oh, my God.
Flowerboy.
Okay.
Black Lives Matter, all in.
She's all in.
And also my 10-year-old son, all in.
He's got a t-shirt.
Yes, my daughter too.
On board.
Who happens to be black, by the way?
And if you're not all in, you're racist.
Right.
So we've set up.
What do you make of that?
Yeah.
We've set up.
Because you're at least 50% black.
At least.
Because you look black.
I don't know.
Again, I guess I would harken back to what I was saying earlier, which is once we stop looking at people as people and start looking at them as a label, whether that label is gay, whether that label is suburban housewife, whether that label is black or white, when we bestow people with labels, we make it harder to view them as people.
So I think at the heart of Lily being all in and your son and my daughter, which my daughter gets a lot of these ideas from TikTok and Instagram, I try to avoid politics in our home.
I want her to find her own way, but I'm realizing other people are going to be talking to her about this anyway.
So I've got to jump in there and take the lead.
I think the sentiment behind it is I care.
I want to see equality.
And that I like.
But again, There is a difference between saying, Hey, I believe that we haven't been compassionate enough towards black lives and American politics.
And I want to change that.
I want to be part of the solution.
There's a difference between saying that and saying that if you don't see everything the way I see it, then you are inherently evil.
We're setting up some very dangerous dichotomies here moving forward.
Um, because the thing is, is that you're Lily will find out as she grows up that she will not be able to escape that category as well.
When her kids get to be your age, even she will be the one who's out of step with culture.
Yeah, right now it seems inconceivable to her and to us, even like how much further can we go?
It seems inconceivable, but that is just the nature of time, of progression of time.
She will be the intolerant one at some point.
So you have to understand that the rules you set up for other people, Lily, will be the rules that will apply to you as well.
And the subject won't always be the same.
When you get older, you might feel like you're on the right side of this Black Lives Matter thing, but we may have shifted all the way to something else and you can't get on board with that, then you'll be evil.
So I think it's good advice for all of us.
The rules we set up will apply to us as well.
What about those adults that they're fully on board with whatever the fad is at the moment and they're all the way to like their 70s or whatever?
I don't know.
Like they're rare, like the same fat or the current fans.
Whatever the current one is, they're still and then they jump, they lily pad from whatever they live that life.
Don't say, don't trust those people.
Yeah, don't trust those people.
I'm trying to think what you're talking about.
Yeah, you should never trust people.
Like a youth pastor who's still skateboarding and wearing vans and stuff.
Just whoever, you know, an adult who they kind of just, their opinions and their politics just kind of are whatever is the current.
You will owe every one of them.
And then in 10 years, if you check in with them, they've changed it to whatever it is then.
Like it's rare, but they're sure.
I think it's mostly very immature adults.
Yeah.
And you're always going to get caught in that trap.
You'll always get caught in it.
It'll never be enough.
We're watching it now.
We're watching people being forced to apologize for things, like even because of what Lily is saying here, you know, hey, if you're not all the way, then you're not on board at all.
And life is full of nuances and middle ground and gray area.
That's the human, that's the human race.
Yeah.
And not everything in the world is like it is here in Ontario.
You know, not every other place in the world is like this place, California or the United States.
There's a lot of gray area.
There's a lot of culture and history that we don't understand.
At some point, everyone gets trapped in that.
And that's why it's so important that we have to understand that the rules we set up for other people are going to, we're all going to have to adhere to those rules at one point or another.
So do you want the rule to be the golden rule?
Or do you want the rule to be, and the golden rule, of course, is love thy neighbor as yourself and love the Lord your God with all your heart.
But, or do you want the rule to be whatever society says at that moment is good?
That's the side you're on.
And look back through history and when has that ever been like pretty much every fad of the time has been wrong.
I mean, that's one thing that I think that's one reason we cling to the Bible because it's a book that was written over thousands of years and it holds to the truths that stuck through all that time.
Believes wisdom is a real thing that God created and put into the earth into the into creation.
What is more helpful of a rule than, all right, forget everything else, love your neighbor as yourself.
Yeah.
Like what, that's what do you improve on that?
You can't, you cannot improve on that concept.
That covers everything.
That covers every sin.
And let's remember that racism is sin and sin is a heart problem, not a society problem.
And that's what a lot of people don't like to hear because everyone wants the easy fix.
Well, I appreciate all your messages.
Yeah.
It's here.
All right.
Well, thanks, Kira.
That was excellent.
Oh, are we at the end already?
Is it our time for this?
We're going to do another one.
We're going to do another one for later.
For later.
Save it for later.
I'm hungry, so let's go have some lunch.
Do it.
Let's do it.
I'm down.
Peace.
Did she get a chance to?
Oh, yeah.
Did you like promote all your stuff?
I've been like plugging myself this time.
I know she has the whole time, but we usually have like a well, go look me up on Twitter at RealKira Davis.
You can find my podcast, Just Listen to Yourself, which actually just hit the top 20 on iTunes for news and commentary this week.
So we're really happy about that.
And then, yeah, that's all I got going on for now.
It'll all be in the show notes, too.
Great.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, bye.
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