Art Bell and Richard C. Hoagland spotlight NASA’s moon negatives, revealing puzzling lunar structures—like a 20-mile-high vertical tower and glass domes—contradicting official dismissals, including NPR’s retracted mockery and Buzz Aldrin’s "crazy" label, while Hoagland pushes for private missions to unlock "next-century" tech. Meanwhile, Montana residents describe the Freemen as violent militants, not peaceful patriots, after years of threats, bad checks, and warrants, contrasting with outsiders’ Waco comparisons; Bell defends FBI intervention amid local distrust of federal overreach. Callers debate government flaws, genetic ancestry claims (like In Search of Eve), and conspiracy theories, while Bell tests a Vidian two-way video system and pivots to earthquakes and film critiques—all underscoring how misinformation and fringe narratives clash with verified local accounts, exposing deeper tensions between authority and public perception. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning across this great land of ours and beyond, actually, worldwide via the net.
And I'll tell you all about that in a moment.
And our 800 international line, we're going to give it another try tonight.
Thanks to AT ⁇ T, they've been working their high knees off, trying to get it working.
They may have it.
If not tonight, then within the next couple of days, they think they'll have it all straightened out.
I'll be telling you about that.
Richard Hoagland is here for an update to tell you what went on in Washington with Sarah McLendon and company.
So we're going to be doing that.
A lot of stuff is coming up, in other words.
The Montana standoff continues.
We'll get back to that.
And a lot more.
So it's going to be a full night of live, unscreened, spontaneous.
You name it, talk radio, and we'll talk about it.
That's the fun of it all, I guess.
Anyway, listen, where to begin?
Let me hit the international line right here at the beginning, just in case it might be working.
Here's the deal.
If you're in a foreign country somewhere, and that may well be the case because, of course, we're now carried on real audio by WPSL in Port St. Lucie, Florida, and WOAI in San Antonio, Texas.
The one radio station that probably doesn't need the internet but has it nevertheless.
You can pick us up on real audio.
If you have a computer and you have the appropriate program software, which is freeware, you can get it for free up on the net.
On my webpage, you can jump over and you can listen to the program from any obscure corner of the world from which you can access the internet.
So let me tell you about our international line.
Doesn't mean it's working.
They're working on it, but they might have it.
They might have it.
So if you are in a foreign country other than Canada or Mexico, try calling your AT ⁇ T America Direct Access Number.
And you can get that locally or you should know what it is.
Your AT ⁇ T direct access number.
Japan would be 0039111.
The United Kingdom would be 0500890011.
That's a lot of numbers.
Then I guess you will get a dial tone and then simply call our 800 number internationally.
1-800-893-0903.
Let me give that to you one more time.
1-800-893-0903.
I guess I better give it once more.
Internationally, if it's working, 1-800-893-0903.
And we'll see if we get any international calls.
They may not have it together yet, but we thought this morning we'd give it a try and see what happened.
Now, my internet webpage, which will contain some photographs that didn't go up very well the first time, but are up there just fine now.
Photographs of the moon that Richard Hoagland provided or the real audio network or whatever else.
By the way, the Portland book signing photographs are up there now as of tonight.
So there's a lot of new stuff on the webpage.
It is www.artbell.com.
That's www.artbell.com.
And by the way, also up there, I'm told by my webmaster, is an actual written summary, not summary, but word-for-word, verbatim transcript of the last time Richard Hoagland was on that you can get up on the webpage, all of it.
That's www.artbell.com.
If you have a web browser, just enter Art Bell and it will lead you forth.
In a moment, coming up, Richard Hoagland with an update.
I think we're going to look back and say, thanks to you, among others, this was the week that was in this investigation.
I think we have broken into mainstream.
One of the interesting developments that I literally learned at the gallery tonight, I just came from a gallery opening here in New York City down in Soho, where a large selection of very large format hard copy photographs, some murals as long as six feet long, went on display this evening with an appropriate reception and will be up for at least a month in New York City so that various people, media, you know, gallery goers, tourists,
people in your audience who are in the New York area, it's called the Archetype Gallery, which is very appropriate.
It's run by Iris DeMiro, who is a very remarkable lady in her own right.
It's at 115 Mercer Street in Soho, for people who know New York.
And I don't know the gallery hours offhand, but I'm sure we can update you on the website at some point.
The point is that we are presenting in this gallery premiere the actual negatives blown up as large-scale prints from the original NASA material without the intervention of a computer.
This is the actual negatives that the astronauts brought back from the moon a couple of generations down the road because obviously the originals are somewhere in Houston.
You can't put analog data on the web by definition.
And what's interesting is that tonight we had a whole bevy of photographers.
I have a feeling that about half of New York City is made up of photographers or would-be photographers or former photographers or people who know photographers.
Anyway, I had a rather remarkable evening because I had a lot of photographers throwing good photographic questions at me.
And the interesting thing is that they all came away extraordinarily puzzled.
Well, we're going to get to the Sarah McLennan thing.
But a week ago, when we had planned the press conference, the Sarah McLennan thing kind of came up wonderfully at the last minute serendipitously, and I'll get back to that.
We had planned as a companion event one week later, a gallery opening of the hard copy photography here in New York, which is the commercial media capital of the universe.
And it was extremely well attended, and we showed film, we showed video, I walked them through the pictures, we put everything on tape.
We're compositing that into this video, which will be what, number four in this series.
It's just such an interesting idea because it has been a heck of a week.
The key thing is these photographers who are used to looking at photographs and taking photographs apart were genuinely, honestly baffled, puzzled, and astonished by what they see in these photographs.
Because they know that what they're seeing in these pictures is not the moon that they've been told exists.
It's something else.
And that's what's happening.
There is a developing trend curve.
Now, in the middle of the night, as I'm going through all this with laser pointer in hand and cameras pointed in my face and people throwing questions, a friend of mine comes in off the freeway.
He'd driven up from Washington.
And he said, did you hear what NPR did a little while ago?
And I said, no, Stephen, I haven't heard anything.
I need to ask for some support from your audience.
If anybody taped tonight's All Things Considered and the NPR piece basically retracting the slanderous piece they did on us last week, I would like a copy of the tape.
And I have not heard any of this because I have been running about Warp 9, which is why we're calling this now the Enterprise Mission.
We don't drop below light speed until we get back to the moon.
We have not heard or seen really any of the press.
I've just been hearing reports, people secondhand, thirdhand.
I did see the piece in the Washington Post, which is incredibly libelous.
But I had not seen or heard anything else much.
And so when I heard secondhand that NPR had assigned a comedian to cover our press conference, I really was rather disappointed because I think a lot of NPR.
Apparently, this 90-second piece that ran last week, a week ago last week tonight.
Anyway, what NPR did tonight is to basically bite the bullet, and they said forthrightly that they had gotten a lot of mail, hundreds of letters, if not thousands, and that 99% of it was very negative and hostile, and told them basically they had been bad boys and girls, that they had not done a job on covering our press event that was up to the standard that they expected from NPR and All Things Considered.
And then, to cap it, and I've got to give them credit, they actually played a tape from a listener somewhere in the Midwest who said that his local paper, you know, just a two-bit local rag, had done a very fair and objective report in contrast to NPR's slipshod, demeaning effort at humor.
And then they apparently, to have the last word, had the comedian come on and he called up Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon.
Who basically said in the piece that I was crazy and there's nothing there and everything is fine and NASA's telling the truth.
And the comedian said, see, I've been vindicated.
And that was the end of the piece.
Now, for bright and interested and curious and intelligent Americans, obviously the national public radio does not go on the air and say, Maya Culpa, we blew it without a substantial amount of pressure.
What is really important is, and I don't know what the crossover is, but I would doubt that there are a significant number of all things considered listeners in your audience, if for no other reason than the times don't fit.
You know, you're a late-night person, and people who are up listening to you are up at night.
Now, there probably is some crossover, but not a lot.
So the reason this is important politically is that without any urging on our part, a lot of Americans listening to NPR realized that something was radically wrong, that they were not getting the full story, as Paul Harvey used to say.
And they let their voices be heard, and NPR responded.
Now, they haven't called us yet and asked for an interview so we can sit down and discuss data as opposed to accusations.
But the fact that they went through this hauler all this evening and even played a listener, you know, and his comments, I've got to give them credit.
And the credit really goes ultimately to the American people who are politically doing exactly what is expected.
Now, let me back into the Sarah McClendon thing, because you know that C-SPAN is the other holdout.
They, without prompting, then picked up their telephones and dialed C-SPAN in Washington.
And at 10.30, I'm standing at the podium, and I noticed this camera crew come galloping through the door, setting up their cameras.
It was C-SPAN.
And they recorded the last 45 minutes.
Well, of course, the big question is, when are they going to air it, if they ever air it?
So we've had a number of people looking at C-SPAN and making calls, and no one over there seemed to know what was going on.
So this morning in my breakfast meeting, which was supposed to be a brief touch-and-go to kind of thank her for the invitation last night with Sarah McClendon, which turned into a two-and-a-half-hour meeting on strategy in her apartment in downtown Washington.
I just kind of naively said, Sarah, do you know Brian Lamb?
And she says, well, of course, he's one of my best friends.
And I said, why don't you give him a call and find out when he's going to run the press conference?
And I gave her this whole story.
So while we're sitting there, Carrie Clark and myself and my cameraman who had come down to photograph last night's event, Sarah McClendon picks up the telephone and calls Brian Lamb and dictates to his assistant, he was at some meeting, a very lengthy memo.
The bottom line was, please call me back.
This is important.
I want to find out when you're going to run the Hoagland press conference.
Now, I have not been home.
I literally walked in the door five minutes ago before the phone rang and we went on the air.
I do not know what's going on regarding Sarah and Brian Lamb, but tomorrow I will find out.
This is a fast-moving story.
It has got interesting data points.
The American people, your audience, the mainstream is making their voices heard, and it's having an appropriate effect.
And I really wanted to stay up to the middle of the night tonight after the week that was to tell your people, to tell all you guys and gals out there, we really appreciate your support.
Morally, you have kept us going.
And in fact, this is why we're doing this.
We're doing it so we all can find out what's been going on.
You know, I am continually amazed at how darn sharp an 85-year-old lady is.
And we're having such fun now because we're kind of throwing little jokes back and forth.
She has said flatly that this is the most important story she has ever come across.
And because I respect her so highly, I think that speaks reams as to what we have done in terms of the data and to what we have done in terms of communicating the political importance.
And it was really funny last night because I went on for like three hours in this meeting that she had set up at the National Press Club.
And there were some very interesting events that went down around the meeting, which we'll probably get into after the next commercial.
But the bottom line is she said at the end of the meeting, she says, okay, Dick, now she says, tell us, why is this important?
Why should I care?
You know, she's a very bottom-line kind of person.
So we went through material science, radical scientific advances, American Renaissance, educational renaissance, spiritual renaissance, energy developments, knowledge that has been kept from the American people for 30 years by somebody for some reason that we haven't got access to and now needs to come out and needs to be put into play so that we basically move into the next century, kind of playing with a full deck, because we haven't been.
We've been doing this with one arm tied behind our back.
You cannot trip over the ruins of an extraordinary, stunningly advanced culture, even if it's millions of years old and long since gone, and not find libraries, not find recorded information, the wisdom of the ages, to use a cliché.
And she has asked me now to almost do a press release a day.
She says, you've got to get out there.
You've got to get this story out there.
You've got to do it bit, bit, bit.
You know, I mean, she's really bottom line.
And so what she's basically become is a kind of a friend of the family and advisor.
And when I have some questions about how to tackle the mainstream press, you know, I now have license to call her up and say, Sarah, what would you recommend that I do to get this information out, to get the message across?
And she has taken it upon herself to call certain people and to inquire as to what they're doing and to try to arrange for conversations to take place.
And a lot is going to happen, I think, because of her good offices and because of her interest.
And frankly, if I had five more people as sharp as Sarah McClendon on this team, we'd be on the moon the day after tomorrow.
Tonight at the gallery, I met, well, I can't tell you who I met because there are some confidences I have to keep, but I met somebody who has more money than God who wants to talk about the private mission.
That makes three people who I've met in the last two weeks who are serious, who have the resources, and who have come to me.
I think it's doable.
I've already talked with the engineering people in certain aerospace companies who are dying to have the chance to do this and demonstrate what they can do.
We're looking at a renaissance here.
We're looking at the space program that we really should have had.
Only this time, instead of government playing pussy with it, it's going to be those real people out there who really want to know who are going to get to go themselves or get to go with technology.
Richard Hoagland is with us for an update, and we're going to ask him in a moment about the photographs that are on the Internet and how to look at them.
I've received a lot of email, a lot of email, regarding the photographs that are up on my website.
And I want to preface what I'm going to ask by saying that I received first a piece of email, typical of some I have received, that have said simply, you've got to be kidding.
Well, for one thing, you have to understand that different monitors on different computers are showing these differently.
I discovered the other night when Keith Rollin and I were comparing notes that when I've been uploading them, I've been uploading them at a certain scale.
And because a lot of monitors have much less resolution than the monitors we're using, that they show up on the browser at twice the scale I've been putting them up.
So it's like standing up too close.
You are literally seeing pixels, and what you have to do is you have to capture them, put them into some kind of photo imaging program so you can reduce them, demagnify them, and look at them in smaller versions.
You know, it's that old song from Gigi: Have I been standing up too close or back too far?
Well, the Zond photographs are two images taken in 1965 on July 20th at a distance of approximately 6,000 miles from the center of the moon by a spacecraft that was flying by, sent by the Russians.
And they are part of a 28-frame sequence.
We have been able to secure now two of those 28 frames.
And the first frame shows in the upper right-hand portion of the curved lunar limb, the edge of the moon, at about the 1:32 o'clock position, if you're thinking of the moon as a clock, a tower, a striking 20-mile-high tower.
That's right, 20 miles.
And it is pointed straight up and down so that if you follow that long part, down, it would eventually go through the center of the moon.
In other words, this artifact, this thing on the photo, knows where the local lunar vertical is.
Now, what's interesting is that, of course, that is pretty intriguing because if it was some kind of photographic defect or artifact of the scan or the reproduction mechanism, what are the odds that this streak would know where lunar vertical was?
So you look for these consistencies.
The second thing, of course, is its height, 20 miles.
We know, because the Russians gave us the specifications, the distance of the spacecraft, the lens, all those things.
You look at the curvature of the horizon.
You can calculate the scale.
We know the size of the moon, which is 2,160 miles in diameter.
And by simple, very simple geometry that any textbook in geometry in high school will give you, you simply compare the size of that spike, that tower, with the curvature of the moon, and that tells you that it's got to be about 20 miles tall.
Now, what we don't know yet, because I have not literally had the time since we got this picture to figure it out, is where on the moon it is.
That's going to be a little more difficult, but we will probably in the next few days have that figured out.
What's very important is that this was the second of these exotic Zond pictures which came to our attention.
The first one is the other frame that's produced on that page, which is an earlier frame that NASA itself actually published back in 1968.
And if you look very carefully at the bottom of each picture, there are the sources for these pictures.
The first picture I just talked about came from Jane's Publishing, the same Jane's that publishes, you know, Jane's aircraft and Jane's ships and all that.
It's a big London clearinghouse for basically high-tech and military hardware.
Well, the Novosti or Novosti or TAS news agency, you know, was contacted many years ago by Jane's, and they apparently got a set of prints or negatives.
And we now have to have our people in London follow up because I've been looking, as you know, for more pictures in this series.
One of your listeners the other night, after they'd heard us do one of our shows, found a book in a bookstore somewhere out west, in the northwest, I think, maybe even Portland.
It was called Solar System Log, and it was published by Janes Publishing Company.
And in it was this little picture, including the schematic of the spacecraft and the trajectory and all that.
Well, I looked at it quickly, and I thought it was a duplicate of the one that we had procured a couple years ago.
And then I looked again and I realized, oh my God, it's a second frame.
If you look very carefully at what's on the frame, not the edge of the frame, but the actual structure on the moon, you will see that there is a systematic difference between image number one and image number two.
Well, what you see is, if you look carefully at the picture, and again, I will upload a better version.
We refined another version.
I will upload that shortly, you know, next day or so.
You can actually see between the two pictures extraordinary commonality.
And this, of course, is important because it means that the imaging from the Soviet spacecraft to the Earth, the transmission, the scanning, the reproduction, was very accurate because each detail seen in frame number one is reproduced in frame number two.
And what's really interesting, if you look carefully, there are vertical lines that connect craters that shift from left to right between the two frames.
Now, why is the shift important?
Because the spacecraft was moving to the left, and the lines, because of perspective, shift to the right.
Meaning, yes, exactly, that we're looking at a real, what we call parallactic displacement, a real geometry perspective change as the Zon was arrowing behind the moon in a curving path and taking a later set of pictures.
And what happened is between the frame we've got now from Jane's and the second frame, which was actually the first one that we found, they had moved several thousand miles around the moon further, and it was further in the sequence.
It wasn't the next picture.
It probably was two or three pictures later.
By which time the tower had set around the edge of the moon.
And another feature down south over the front side crater called Kasendi, which is on the front side of the moon on the northern part of a Maria called Mare Humerum.
You can see it with a decent-sized telescope.
That crater, Kasendi, shows a large 20-mile dome-like structure over it.
And that structure knows where down is.
It is radially pointed so that the dome and the sides of it are all perpendicular and aimed toward the center of the moon.
Now, what's really important in terms of consistency is these two anomalies are the same height, indicating that's the top altitude.
And that altitude, by the way, has now, we have checked it and found that it is the height of the glass of the domes that were photographed on the film that I showed to Sarah McLennan's group last night in Washington, shot by Apollo 10 as they made their lunar passes over the front side of the moon.
The dome altitudes now are about 20 miles.
We have that from American data and from Soviet data.
If this stuff had been there, don't you think we'd have wanted to tell the world that it would have been a wonderful PR coup for NASA and for the space program?
And I guarantee we would have told the world if we'd seen anything like Mr. Hoagland says is there.
In other words, all I want to do is to put on the record that we now have Alan Bean, esteemed military officer, U.S. astronaut, artist, on record to ABC, claiming there's nothing there.
We have photographs, and I'll get to the photographs in a minute because there's a new development on the photographic front, I must tell you.
We have photographs showing Alan Bean in front of incredibly interesting structures on the moon.
Even more interesting, maybe, we have Alan Bean on record to Newsweek two years ago when asked to describe what the lunar surface looked like in terms of the space itself above the moon.
He compared it to black patent leather shiny shoes, which if you were standing on the moon with a spacesuit heart, looking at this stuff, these glittering glass domes in terrible shattered ruins now, achingly years after they were built, it would look like black patent leather shoes, flickers of brightness against the dark.
We're driving from New York, and on a cell phone, we called our very important contact at Goddard, who sat in a parking lot for 90 minutes with this packet of pictures in his lap on the front seat, waiting to give the handoff to us.
He didn't trust even leaving them at the guard gate.
And on the way from Goddard into the press club, I am literally looking against the evening sky, you know, at these photographs.
And I have a news flash.
The photos that I showed at the press club on Thursday that are up on your website that came from an official NASA film called Apollo 12 Pinpoint for Science.
Yes, I now have color negatives, which when I hold them up to the light, I can actually see the dome structures on the color negatives from Goddard handed to me personally last night at 4 p.m.
Now, Mr. Bean has a very interesting quandary because, like Hillary Clinton, who had documents appear in her library and who claimed she didn't know how they got there.
Notwithstanding the content of that case, whether you believe her or don't believe her, the fact is on the prima facie circumstantial evidence, Ms. Clinton has a lot to answer for.
On the circumstantial evidence of these photographs and Bean's own statements to Newsweek, Mr. Bean should be very careful how he handles press comments in future.
Because a lot of people listen to this program, and they go up there and they download pictures, and they look at them and they say, oh, come on, I don't see anything.
It's that if you expect this to be a lead pipe cinch, you're wrong.
If you hang with it and understand that you're looking at something that is a ruin millions of years old, made of glass, photographed by 1960s technology, and that it requires an understanding of how to, you know, you've got to be able to transcend the limitations of expecting to see a sign on things.
You have to understand rectilinear geometry.
You have to understand patterns.
You have to understand when things are at right angles again and again and again, that ain't natural.
That things sticking up above the lunar surface are not natural.
Nothing should be up there.
The very fact that there is anything up there, if we can get past the obvious stupidity of its scratches or it's spots on the window.
If you're one of those people and you know something or want to share something and do it even anonymously at this point, we will respect that and we will abide by your wishes.
But please help us.
If you want to be of help with the media, continue making the calls.
It is having an effect.
The American people can make their wishes known by picking up the phone and dialing various media.
The NPR experience tonight is demonstrable evidence that you can make a difference.
I'm beginning to get faxes from people who have gone to their banks and they've got the new $100 bills.
The new $100 bill in the U.S. has been given wide attention.
However, listen to this.
The former Soviet Union has responded loudest as they use U.S. currency for real commerce there, the ruble being worth less than toilet paper.
And this faxer says, the thing is, the $100 bills now appearing in Russia are, get this, slightly different than the ones we're seeing in early releases of photos of the bills and from banks.
This has the Russians scared spitless that we will soon go to a two-tiered currency.
This will result from a bill currently in the house.
very very very very interesting
i'm going to begin on a lighter note and go to a heavier note because if i don't do that will never get any the lighter stuff in uh... because of what's going on of course in montana Now, first of all, I want to, one more time, I'm going to say this.
The telephone company has been really bending over backwards to pull out all the stops across the country, AT ⁇ T, to get us the first truly toll-free international line in the country.
And they are close, very, very close.
It might even be working.
They have not notified us of that fact.
But I want to give out the number again.
and instruct anybody anywhere else in the world how to try to dial us internationally.
Please try.
Call your operator or in one way or the other get the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
Dial that and you'll get a dial tone.
When you get that dial tone, dial our international 800 number and try it.
It is 1-800-893-0903.
Now, I don't know whether you've got to put the 1 in front of that or not.
This is all very experimental.
There has never been such a thing before, and in fact, there may not be now.
But I would like you to give it a try.
If you're anywhere in the world, dial the USA Direct AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number.
Get a dial tone.
And then call our 800 number, 800-893-0903.
And one of these days, it's going to start working.
They're going to get it.
They're working on software and hardware.
And who knows?
One of these mornings I'm going to be surprised.
Here's a facts I think you should hear.
Dear Art, I went by the UFO Museum here in Roswell this afternoon.
Max Little is a very good family friend.
I unluckily missed him and getting hold of that fragment by about 20 minutes.
I wanted to let you know, though, what Max told me is going on.
The fragment is now in the Chief of Police's safe at the Roswell Police Department tomorrow, Friday.
The chief of the Roswell Police Department is going to accompany Max to the School of Mines in Socorro, New Mexico, where this will be analyzed.
The college is one of the best mining schools in the country.
They have top-of-the-line equipment to perform metallurgical breakdowns and analysis.
Max is going to go up there and return tomorrow to be a hell of a drive.
On Saturday morning, I'm supposed to go and see both the fragment and Max and find out any information from the School of Mines.
There is something that needs to be said very quickly.
It is important to know that Roswell has two UFO museums.
These museums are like night and day when it comes to the attitude of the people who run the places.
The museum that Max runs is extremely skeptical of any UFO sightings and info.
The museum also does not have a full-time researcher.
It is a nice museum, but the general knowledge UFO of their workforce is not the best because they're volunteers.
Max told me we've got something that is either worthless or invaluable, how true that is.
Being a native of Roswell, I've had a chance to talk to many of the individuals who were around at the time and many who were involved.
It is my opinion that something did happen close to Corona.
It is also my opinion it was not a balloon of any kind.
Now, I don't know what crashed, where it was from, or who piloted it.
But with the rest of the citizens in the area, I'm interested in finding out just what did happen here.
As a kid, I used to ride my motorcycle out there all the time.
My family was friends with the people who owned the land, always hoped to find something out there, but to no avail.
I also remember as a child going to the airport that was the Air Force base airport.
The Air Force still had several hangars and storage places out there.
Warnings were posted that deadly force would be used to protect the areas, and heavily armed people could be seen at times.
I was very young then, but it's all very clear in my mind.
I'll fax you when I find anything out, keep you updated.
Possibly you could yet again break a historic story.
Love the show, Robert from Roswell, New Mexico.
And I want to thank KBIM, our affiliate in Roswell, for keeping me on top of this.
I want to thank the people at the museum, the local newspaper, who are providing me with a color photograph of this fragment turned in by somebody who did the cleanup at Roswell.
What a surprise, huh?
After all this time.
It was kept privately, secretly, framed, and is now in the hands of the police chief of Roswell, New Mexico.
So I wanted to keep you updated on that story.
We'll have the photograph for your viewing pleasure here in the next day or two.
I continue to follow that story.
Now, I guess we'll turn to what's going on in Montana.
NBC again ran this as their top story.
It's getting top-billing all over now.
NBC reported on the windswept, cold, bleak plains of northern Montana.
A standoff continues between, in the first paragraph, they used the word a militant group, you notice not militias, called the Free Men and federal officials.
But then in the next paragraph, they slid back, watching impatiently from the sidelines local residents and law enforcement officials who almost took radical action on their own against this militia.
Again, they slip back and use that word.
Even though some of those hold up in the compound are family or friends.
This is a fairly remarkable story.
And before you think that the people, the general population in Montana backs these people, you better understand the depth of fright, the depth of terrorism these people feel.
It was so serious that these folks, farmers, relatives in many cases of people hold up in the compound or farmhouse, whatever you want to call it, were themselves going out and buying assault weapons.
They had two secret meetings with the sheriff there, so damn concerned they were ready.
In fact, so was the sheriff, apparently.
They had two secret meetings and they were prepared to deputize a bunch of farmers heavily armed who would go in and do what the FBI hopes to get done eventually, and that is bring these people to justice without the U. In fact, they held two meetings, 20 to 30 farmers, heavily armed, now disbanded because, of course, finally the FBI did show up.
But you really ought to know that these are not viewed as heroic, anti-government, repressed people By the local residents there in Montana.
You really should know that, and I think any militias or groups around anywhere who are contemplating packing up their bags and heading to help these people, they ought to know that.
There's very little to no local sympathy whatsoever.
In fact, there's more fear and loathing than anything else.
The only question at this hour is how it will end, peacefully or violently.
And I would imagine, though the FBI is keeping its distance and trying not to engender a collision, I would rather imagine that it's going, in the end, to be up to the people in that compound.
If they fire on the FBI, it is not going to end peacefully.
It simply will not.
Now, they will wait.
They'll do the best they can, and they're not picking a fight.
It's clear the FBI is not picking a fight.
But at some point, no doubt, there'll be an opportunity for gunfire.
And that will be the point of choice.
Either this will end with peace and court, and they'll have their say with the courts, or there's going to be dead bodies coming out of there.
One of the two.
So it's not a good situation, either way.
But I really felt that you should, and that's why I opened up those lines to Montana last night.
You'll hear more tonight.
People in the Billings area, the FBI command center now is just outside of Billings.
And it's pretty tense.
No question about it.
Pretty tense.
So if you have continuing comments on that, you are welcome to make them.
We had some free men call in last night.
They're welcome to call, as everybody else is.
This program, it's an open forum.
I don't screen calls.
So I'll put you on the air.
And I've got, needless to say, endless facts on the free man situation.
We'll get to some of them.
The House has passed a health care bill.
This bill would allow small companies to get together and pool coverage and get coverage for their employees.
We'll see where it goes.
Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole is leading a Republican congressional rally for presidential campaign unity and urges Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot to abandon any thoughts of third-party challenges.
At an assembly of a few hundred House and Senate backers on Capitol Hill Thursday, Dole called on Buchanan to join his fight to unseat President Clinton, said Republicans would bring about the reforms Perot seeks.
He said, I hope Buchanan joins us.
Do you think he will?
So what I'm going to do now, I think, and I've got a lot more here, but I'm not going to open this up.
Let's see where it goes.
It's up to you.
Open lines.
You can talk about Montana.
You can talk about Richard Hoagland.
You can talk about Roswell.
Or you can talk about anything you want.
The numbers are first-time caller lines, area code 702-727-1222.
And it was taken by an astronomer, I believe, from New York, some university in New York.
And he at this time, and these weren't, these were real vivid photographs of metal structures, a tripod in, you know, and there were three and varying heights.
And he at that time said that he believed that they raised and lowered from below the surface of the moon because he had tracked that area of the moon before and had not gotten any.
And if any of your listeners can, I don't know how you do it, but don't they keep.
Take a careful and as much as you're able scientific look.
Do as Richard suggested and manipulate them to a smaller size and take a look.
In other words, make them less pixely.
Now, I thought what he had to say was critically important and scientifically verifiable.
And that is that there would be new photographs that offer second frames of many of the photographs we now have.
This is really truly important evidence.
People can laugh it off if they want to, but I don't think it's so easily done.
In other words, these photographs show the same structures that are shown in another photograph from thousands of miles further on in orbit, and yet they show the same structures.
That would seem to me to absolutely rule out the possibility of a photographic anomaly.
And so I think Richard, along with Sarah McLendon, is on to an important addition or piece of evidence backing up his story.
What you need to do is look for a model number on it.
And then there are various stores, electronic stores, where you can go and get manuals that have schematics and perhaps even full manuals on a lot of that equipment, and that will then lead you in the direction of what you've got to do.
Top of the morning to you, and I don't frequently do this.
I just don't do it.
I get a million faxes like this, but I want you to understand how serious it is.
There are, I guess I should say, quite a number of fax networks across America for these patriot groups.
In quotes, please.
One of them is the American Patriot Facts Network.
I just had one role in, and it's so typical.
It's so typical, and it's the reason I'm discussing what's going on, frankly, in Montana, and talking with the people of Montana so that you can hear what they say.
Nothing fed through the media screening system.
Nothing that got left on the cutting room floor.
But I've got my lines open to the people of Montana.
And the real thing, but just listen to what this American Patriot Facts Network wrote.
I'll read from about the last third of this news release entitled More Lies from the Media.
Did you see this?
It says, Sam Donaldson and ABC declare war on the people of the United States of America.
Did Sam do that?
It says, it is clear the Zionists, Zionists, who own ABC have declared war on the people, having chosen Donaldson and Jennings to be their generals to lead the charge.
They have chosen the public media, which they dominate, to launch a campaign of slander and half-truth.
They're talking about Montana now.
We must use our arsenal to destroy their economy.
By destroying their economy, we remove the ammunition for their media cannons and remove the fuel for their gigantic media engine.
It is clear that Donaldson, Jennings, and ABC must be commercially denied.
They must pay the price for their actions, and they must be added to the growing list of treasonous individuals who would bring our great nation to its collective knees.
The gauntlet has been thrown down.
The battle has begun.
The enemy has finally shown his face to the public and in the light of day.
Steady, men, steady.
We have finally seen the whites of their eyes, and it's time to let fly.
Let us match paper with paper and musketball with musketball if we need to.
So that's the kind of thing that's flying around in these facts networks right now about what's going on in Montana.
They perceive this as a relatively innocent group of people, men, women, and some children.
These men who have done nothing but are under a terrible assault from an oppressive, repressive, socialist government.
And, you know, that's just so much absolute garbage.
The people of their very own community were getting to the point where they were going to take legal action on their own.
They were to the point, friends, neighbors, even relatives of these people, where they went out and bought themselves assault rifles and guns.
They were going to be deputized.
And they were going to go in there and do what they thought the federal government wouldn't do.
I mean, that's what's really going on there.
And this is dangerous.
Very, very dangerous.
And I feel some need.
I'm compelled to let you all hear the truth.
Whether or not you're getting it from the major media is one thing.
But you're going to get it here.
You're going to hear from the people who are there.
Why don't you listen to them?
I mean, I get faxes from people who say, God, what a sellout you are, Belle, to the feds, you know, and the government.
No, I'm not.
I'm looking at this, I hope, and I think, objectively.
These people are not heroes.
These people don't fit my definition of a patriot.
And I think that is also true of the people who live in Montana.
And so those of you who would pick up your muskets and cannonballs or whatever it is as suggested in here, musketballs and muskets, you better listen carefully.
And you better be damn careful about what kind of banner you pick up and march off as to war against anybody.
Better know what you're defending before you decide to defend it.
Because a lot of people out there, in their blind and sometimes somewhat justified hatred and distrust of the federal government, will take up sides and issues with anybody.
Don't do that.
Know what it is you're defending.
Know whether there's been real crimes committed here or not before you go defending anybody.
The next best thing, I guess, thank you, would be to subscribe to our newsletter.
We're going to be getting them in there.
I realize there are many people who don't have computers.
The only other thing I can think to do as a way of getting all this out there is to put them in the newsletter and publish them and hope that they are then published by others.
So, naturally, anybody wanting to publish what we put in the newsletter needs to come to us and secure our permission to do so.
But we have been very liberal with that and will continue to be because the object is to get them out there.
So, if you want a copy of our newsletter, ongoing every month, we do more and more and more.
It's in there.
Subscribe.
The number is 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
Yes.
Hello.
I went to Idaho for a while, and while I was there, I had a girlfriend who her manager lived in Billings.
Well, there's a very great chasm of difference between the calls we get from people in Montana and those we get from outside Montana.
Typically, I'll get a call from Los Angeles or some other metropolitan area, and the people will be all on the side of these poor, suppressed, repressed, innocent free men.
But then I get calls from Montana, and they say, thank God the FBI is here.
It's about time.
We've been scared to death.
It's been sort of like a siege here.
It's been terrorism.
Thank God they're here.
We would have had to do something ourselves.
unidentified
Well, that's absolutely right.
I've been to Jordan.
I've talked to the judge out there.
And by the way, his name is Art also.
And he only has one sheriff and one deputy.
And they are, I am sure, because the way they have things done there, they try to keep things in-house as best as possible, but this has gone way out of hand.
And right now, I mean, when I listen to all your callers that are coming outside the area, I can see why they wanted to keep things within-house.
And right now, I don't blame them.
It's gotten way out of hand, and they are welcoming federal help out there.
And, you know, a lot of us that are watching them from here are thinking the same thing, too.
The allegations flying around in the fax networks are that the major networks, ABC, NBC, all the rest of them, in this one, ABC, are serving up nothing but lies to the American people.
Lies demonizing these poor free men.
And I think the American Patriot Facts Network and the other networks that are doing this are making a tragic mistake in backing these people.
I don't know why they're doing it.
I guess it's a knee-jerk kind of, quote, patriot, end quote, reaction without really looking into the facts of what's been going on with these so-called free men, without listening to the people in the area.
This is not Waco, folks.
Even though there were assorted rumors of child molestation and the rest of it at Waco, the great majority of the real news coming out of Waco, both before and after the incident from the people of Waco was that, well, the people out at the compound are not a problem.
We're not threatened.
Oh, there were a few gunshots on a range behind the compound at Waco.
But nothing serious.
The people of Waco basically were not disturbed about it.
I recall an interview with the sheriff at Waco saying, you know, I could have handled this.
They should have come to me.
They didn't have to do all of that.
So the community around Waco was not disturbed.
The community around Jordan is damn disturbed.
And these situations are not the same.
And yet these organizations like FBN and the rest of them, in a knee-jerk way, seem to be leaping to the defense of these free men.
It is a mistake.
It will affect their credibility, which I had already been questioning for a long time.
Instead of talking about that situation in Montana, let's talk about politics and the cycle.
Something else occurred to me recently.
We had Nixon and Reagan, two popular presidents who were both elected to two terms.
Of course, Nixon didn't finish his, but then they were in turn replaced by Ford and Bush, a couple of one-term losers who were stuck in there, and then they were in turn replaced by Carter and Clinton, two southern presidents.
Kind of a cycle that's all gone through.
And of course, if that cycle repeats itself, then Clinton won't win his re-election.
Apparently, our toll-free international line is still not fully operable.
I noticed they've got the lockout in this country pretty well taken care of.
That's nice.
And they may not have the gateway open just yet, but they're close.
I know they're close.
If you would like to try it internationally, who knows, somebody might be able to get through from some country out there.
It is toll-free from all over the world when they get it working.
It might work now.
So if somebody out there would try it, I would appreciate it.
All you do is call your ATT USA direct access number.
That's your ATT USA direct access number.
And then our 800 number.
If you get through, it will be toll-free.
The number is 800-893-0903.
That's 800-893-0903.
And it would be indeed grand if somebody managed to get through.
And one of these nights, folks, and I think soon, assuming they're able to work their magic, all of a sudden, it's going to open up and we're going to begin to get international calls.
It will happen.
It's just a matter of when.
Now, I jumped the gun a little bit because I noticed the lockout was now in effect.
They still, I think, don't have the gateway open, but give it a try.
All right, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, get the latest in news, and we'll be right back.
Definitions Clarified00:15:17
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast A.M. More somewhere in time coming up.
The drums are going tonight.
She has only whispers of some quiet conversation.
We take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Aren't your caller who described the succession of presidents got it right?
You did not understand.
Here's what the caller said.
Two popular presidents, Nixon and Reagan, well, I don't know, if Nixon was and is in some circles popular, I'm not sure that I'd bestow on him an overall popularity rating, were replaced with less popular one-termers, Ford and Bush.
Both of these were replaced by Southern Democrats.
Carter replaced Ford and Clinton replaced Bush.
The caller was trying to say that since Carter lost, so will Clinton.
Point is moronic and hardly worth noting, but he was trying to make a pattern.
What he forgets is that both Reagan and Clinton were extremely charismatic candidates.
He did not account for Dole's total lack of charisma.
Well, I guess that's true.
And if I misheard what that caller said, I'm sorry.
I just somehow I didn't get it.
I thought he was trying to tell me that somebody other than who he was suggesting was previous to Carter.
So I thought he had the chronology wrong.
If he had it right and I had it wrong, I'm sorry about that.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, I was calling in reference to a previous caller called from Montana about the Freemen.
Yes.
And I'm calling from down here in Houston, and it seems to me that those folks have been having serious problems, I guess, I guess for about three or four years now, and local officials have been threatened by these folks.
Yes.
And I'm kind of glad to see that the federal government has decided to step in and assist their local law enforcement.
But I'm kind of glad they've also waited this long to basically set up not quite a perimeter, but basically just to keep an eye on things.
Well, I guess they've got what they call, I guess they've got what they call rolling roadblocks, and so they're trying to keep people as best they can out of the area.
But, you know, they haven't set up a situation like they had at Waco.
unidentified
And I hope they can take and saw this in a peaceful, meaningful manner without having to reach that type of episode.
But if it does come to that, at least they have some people that can actually take care of the problem without it getting out of hand.
And I think in the end that it's going to come down to those who are holed up in that house or compound or farmhouse or whatever it is you want to call it.
We get all caught up in terms.
And the media does certainly a disservice by describing these people as militia people.
They're not, to the best of my knowledge, they certainly are not.
They are more aptly described, I suppose, as militants.
That's the word that I would have chosen.
It's the one NBC finally used.
And then in the second paragraph of their reporting, it was back to militia again.
Farmhouse or compound?
I don't know.
A place where people are presently holed up and won't come out.
What I want to prevent here is a misunderstanding of who these people are.
And if you read the various faxes that are flying about in the so-called Patriot Facts Networks, these are innocent, downtrodden, oppressed people the government has simply decided to move in on for no discernible reason.
And it's simply not true.
And if you want to avoid a tragedy, you will look into this and find that out for yourself.
It's not the, quote, what was it, Zionist media that's perpetrating all of this.
It just simply is not the case.
All right, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
I'm going to take care of a little bit of business here.
Then I'm going to let the audience at this hour hear a phone call.
I got from a man who declared himself to be a free man last night.
This call really must be heard.
So we'll be doing that in just a moment.
What I'm going to do, because it was key, and I realize you will hear in my voice some frustration.
And you may feel it yourself as you listen to the following telephone call that occurred last night from a man who said he was a free man in Montana.
Listen very carefully to the following telephone call.
Well, I've been in contact with the Freemen fighting, I guess, unlawful acts, what I would consider from agents, county government, basically on the right to travel.
Finally, I decided, all right, I have, there are literally hundreds of Supreme Court cases and other cases that says that we have the right to travel without a license.
I have, like I just said, there are literally hundreds of different law cases going back to, well, I guess since we had automobiles and before that, that we could travel, we could use the right-of-ways for our travel without license.
As you predicted, I've got something good to say about the gentleman in Montana, although I will tell you that I do not know any of them firsthand, and I at least know enough to say that.
He came out of retirement at 96 years old to write a review of that book for the spotlight, even though they'd already previously reviewed it.
He said it's a masterful analysis of the IRS code.
As a result, about a year later, when my mother had to pay a large, or was told by the IRS she had to pay a large capital gains tax, meaning about $40,000, and also to the state of California, she wrote the checks, and I said, Mother, what are you doing?
We've been over this already.
Sorry, you're not liable for that.
She stopped payment.
A little too late for California.
They got the check.
The IRS smelled blood because they got a check that now was stopped payment.
So they've been after.
First thing they told her was that they had a lien on her property.
Knowing that in about 1986, a congressman who was interviewed, who's interviewing the IRS, came out and told the press, listen, they just told me they operate a 90% bluff.
I called the county.
No lien.
False report.
Next thing, they then start adding on up to finally within the last few months about $32,000 or so thousand dollars in penalties, et cetera, et cetera.
My brother, who is her certified, or excuse me, her power of attorney, finds out, does Leroy's course, and serves the notice and lien, et cetera, does all the steps, and winds up by getting a warrant check for $72,777, which he sends off to them.
When the manure hit the air conditioner at the beginning of this week, we were thinking, uh-oh, are they going to come for us?
What came instead was a letter from the IRS to my mother today saying we are crediting your overpayment, the extra $10 beyond what you owed us, to some other account.
We know nothing because this is the first they've ever said about anything.
What can you tell us about what you know about the people in Montana, the people around you, the people right there that are experiencing all of this with regard to the free men?
unidentified
Okay, first of all, I have to applaud you, Art, because you are at least being honest and using common sense on this.
Most of the people in Billings on the local talk show here in the morning are, first of all, they're shocked that, you know, this is great as far as local press coverage, and now it's national press coverage of such a terrible event, and everyone has this misperception of what's going on up here.
Most people are absolutely opposed to what these freemen have been doing.
I mean, they've been basically terrorizing this area for about a year now.
Well, the first thing they did is about a year ago when they were in Musselshell County, which is just north of Billings in a little town called Roundup, about 50 miles here, they went into town, they went into a courthouse.
They wanted to hang one of the district attorneys there because he had ruled against them in a court case earlier.
Yeah, as a matter of fact, out on their compound right now, and by the way, their compound is a double-wide trailer, just for everyone's knowledge out there.
You know, they have a hangman noose out there along with a no trespassing and this would be the penalty if you do trespass on our property is you will be hanged.
I know they offered a million dollars in ransom if somebody would bring them was it your county prosecutor?
unidentified
Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of people they want to uh and of course they've been they they've issued and and this is not a common thing they've issued uh warrants for the arrest because they want to uh they want to arrest, try and and then hang or execute not just the county prosecutors, the district attorneys in Musselshaw County.
They also have threatened the sheriff and things of that nature.
But it is from the local area as opposed to the national press.
This is the local area.
This is common knowledge, is it not, sir, in your part of Montana?
unidentified
Yeah, it's quite common knowledge.
You know, Art, you just played a call from a guy yesterday that claimed he was arrested.
Right.
Which I find amazing.
If he was arrested, how was it he was calling you that same night?
And when they had these people in court, there was one gentleman that was, I believe he was from, he may have been from Gellatin County, which is Bozeman, but I believe he was from Missoula, that was arrested because he was violating his parole, and they told him if he leaves the county, he will be violating his parole, and he'll be arrested.
No one was attacked down at the array.
This is the courthouse.
This is four blocks away from my office.
I mean, if there was a riot or fights or anything like that, this is a small enough town.
I mean, Billings is a town of 80,000 people.
Everybody knows everything that's going on in this town.
Moreover, it is also true that prior to the arrival of the FBI, actual relatives of the people in the compound and neighbors, farmers, were arming themselves, had had two meetings with the sheriff there, and they were going to take matters into their own hands, deputize people, and go take care of it themselves.
That's how terrorized the people in that area are.
unidentified
Well, what they've done is they've made up their own name for their own town up in that area.
And you've got to understand, Jordan, Montana is a town of about 450 people.
It's in a county which is just a little bit smaller than the state of Connecticut.
The total number of people that live in this county are like 505 people.
So, you know, when you've got a bunch of people running around, they've set up their own court system.
They've set up their own make-believe town, and they're on their own ego trips.
Absolutely, these people in Jordan were not comfortable with them.
I'm only trying to get some kind of equity into this show.
Because, in fact, what's occurring is that this is being tried in the media.
Not just you.
You're probably being, frankly, I don't know whether you're being more balanced or not than the other.
I do know that I was the one who forwarded to you the APFN facts, and I was very disappointed in how you left out all the facts and only went to the op-ed part.
Brokaw reported straight out, factually, that their television camera and their videotape were taken at gunpoint with shotguns from men who pulled up behind the NBC van.
And that is, now for the second night in a row, I've been taking calls from people in Montana, right up there in the Billings area, right in the very area where all of this is occurring.
And not one of them, not one so far, has said, gee, these free men are really good guys.
The government's moved in on them.
It's going to be another Waco or it's going to be another Ruby Ridge to the person.
They have all said, thank God the FBI is here.
We've been terrorized up here.
And these are people in the area.
Now, I don't know how we get any closer or more accurate idea of what really is going on up there than doing what I'm doing.
And you're doing a public service to be doing what you're doing.
In that you've got the lines open.
That's good.
What I noticed was we're not hearing from any officials.
We're not hearing from anybody, I believe, as much as I've heard.
I've only heard a couple hours, who says, I saw this.
This happened.
You know?
That's partial.
That's one thing.
But, you know, you are, of course, you're doing a great public service in many ways, and keeping these lines open and encouraging people from the area to call in is very valuable.
And I'm not in any way, I hope certainly the other caller was not intending that I thought that we wanted another Ruby Ridge here.
But let me ask you, how many people in the press were saying good things about Ruby Ridge or Waco at the time?
The press coverage was absolutely biased with regard to Waco, and I noted it constantly at the time.
Ditto on Ruby Ridge, I did talk radio, sir, through both of those things.
And what I've been trying to press home is that my assessment of this situation, based on what I've read, what I can gather, and most of all, talking to people from the area, and this is the second night now we've done this on purpose, is that this is no Ruby Ridge.
And I sort of agree with the caller from Montana that there are a lot of people out there, including in these fax networks, and that's why I read that fax, who are almost aching for this to be one.
Or if that's the wrong word to use, then they are acting as though this is the same as Ruby Ridge or Waco.
And they're preparing for a confrontation as it was that.
And that ought not be.
Because, folks, it's not the same thing.
And so I will continue to hold my line open for people in Montana so the rest of the country might know the truth.
Now, it's true I'm not talking to Switzerland.
That would not be necessarily an objective point of view either.
I think the best thing we can do is have open lines, just the way we have right now, and hear from the people who are there.
Does that make sense?
Not from people necessarily in the Fremen movement, although that is interesting, and not necessarily hearing from people involved with the Patriot Facts Networks or the rest of it that are all set to go, Johnny on the gun, but the people who are in the community and what they have to say.
I think that's very, very important.
If you recall interviews prior to Waco, the people said there was not a problem.
The people, including the sheriff down there, said we can handle this.
understand i'm sure there would be a little droid red back and i'm sure there would have been not interest cross interest yes where he had not paid the taxes and he had proof that the taxes were not due to him on his property because they're illegal taxes.
Now the freemen have went and tried to balance checks.
It is a kind of a wild night, second one in a row, mostly talking about what's going on in Montana.
Back to it in just a moment.
This is Nick in Billings, Montana.
I'm a native Montanan.
I come from a ranching background, and I'm a gun owner.
I grew up in eastern Montana, about 100 miles from where all this is going on.
Montanans are very independent.
We prize this trait in ourselves and others.
I don't care if someone wants to belong to a militia.
I don't care if someone wants to call himself a free man.
America is a free country.
They can believe whatever makes them happy.
However, when their freedom begins to threaten my freedom or my neighbors, I begin to care.
This little group of freemen have been threatening local officials and private citizens for over a year.
They've issued their own arrest warrants for dozens of people.
On film, he emphasizes that, bold type, on film, their leader has stated they're authorized to shoot anyone who resists them.
About a month ago, they tried to buy over a million dollars worth of weapons and ammunition.
Only reason they didn't get the arms is they tried to pay for it with their make-believe money.
The gun dealer preferred to be paid in real money.
Your listener in Los Angeles can believe in conspiracies if he wants, but I don't want heavily armed people in my backyard who believe that they have the right to shoot anyone who disagrees with them.
And what, though, is dangerous about it is that America's kind of on a hair trigger right now because of what has happened in the past.
And a lot of people around the country, not in Montana, mind you, but around the country, are seeing this as just one more Waco, one more Ruby Ridge, and they're not listening.
They've just got anti-government fever.
And no matter what anybody says, I had Chuck on here a little while ago.
He's been following and preaching about Waco now ever since, with some good cause.
Even he doesn't believe what he's hearing.
He's saying, well, these people in Montana are just part of the greater American press that's making these people in devils so that they can pull in the tanks, you know.
Okay, but I think you can lessen the tension on this and have everyone on both sides not leap to judgment on this thing until we can see what can be done over there.
And it shouldn't trigger all these insecurities over these other areas and these other emotional issues and things like that.
However, the Montana legislature last time, which I will say is both houses are controlled by Republicans, they passed a bill to the Senate, to the governor, that every federal agent that comes into Montana must register with the county officers before they can investigate anyone.
So I don't know the status, the legal status of those who remain inside.
I can't tell you.
All I can tell you is that, as a matter of fact, that's a very, very good question, and I will pursue that, and we'll find somebody who can tell us that, all right?
unidentified
All right.
All right, then.
Oh, one more thing.
Yes.
I was kind of wondering if why didn't the sheriff just go about it the way?
As a matter of fact, the sheriff, of course, is only the sheriff and I guess the deputy, and they weren't about to go up there by themselves, not against that many men.
So they had deputized or were about to deputize a whole bunch of farmers in order to take care of this situation themselves, and thankfully the FBI showed up and prevented that.
unidentified
Well, I don't know about, thankfully, but see, I know, well, I spoke to my grandparents last night, and they kind of told me the situation.
Yeah.
And they said it's pretty much a big, just another same type of deal as Waco, but not agreeing with the tactics that the Freemen are using on their little, I don't know, bullying other people and such.
It is interesting to me, again, and I'll say this again, that most of the calls that tend toward wanting to support the Freeman, one way or the other, like this caller, said, well, it looks to me like another Waco.
These calls come from elsewhere.
The calls that come from Montana are not in support of them at all.
They're in support of the FBI being there.
Now, why do you suppose that would be?
Well, I've got an answer.
It's because there is a lot of anti-government sentiment out there, more than you can imagine.
And it's frustrated.
And with regard to this particular incident, I believe it is misinformed.
Yeah, first of all, let me just say that I agree with your points on these individuals in Montana.
I think what's really unfortunate is that, and what a lot of people don't understand, is that the actions that these people are taking are not hurting the federal government.
And I think the thing of it is, is that, you know, instead of these people calling themselves the free men or whatever they call themselves, they should call themselves the free loaders, which is exactly what they are.
And it's really unfortunate that these people do not understand that the government, the government could care less about them.
Let me say, lastly, on this guy who talks about space-faring civilizations, let me say that I happen to believe, I happen to believe as you do, and I take it from this concept, though.
Every single civilization will face the same type of tragedy no matter where they are, and that is that eventually their star is going to die.
It's going to start to expand.
The oceans are going to start to evaporate, and they are going to be faced with one decision: either to leave their planet, leave their star system, or become extinct.
And eventually, our descendants are going to have, who won't look anything like us, but they'll still be our descendants, will have that same choice to make.
So every single advanced technological society that survived long enough to the end of its star has to develop interstellar space travel.
Whatever that is, it will require that we not be here at the time.
And this will occur in other places as well.
And again, I do happen to agree with the Brookings Institution report.
If you get a chance, read it.
It's up on my webpage.
I think I'm going to do something for myself here for a moment.
I am going to put up the commercial two-way version of Vidian.
So if any of you out there happen to already have installed, and I know there are a number, the two-way version of Vidian, call now, and not only will you see me, but if it's operating properly, I will see you.
So for the next, oh, I don't know, 30 minutes, if you've got just the demo version, do not call.
It will not connect.
If you've got the full two-way version and have your camera hooked up, then call my Vidian number, the same one I've been using for the demo, and I've got the full two-way version on right now, and I would be able to see you as well.
That would be really cool.
All of you have been able to look at me for so long, and I've been unable to look back.
I would love a chance to be able to look back.
So, if you've got the commercial version set up, give me a call and we'll do a two-way here.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, hello, hello, Art, yes, sir.
We're on the air, we better be.
I'm sorry, my radio is down, and I'm calling from Montana.
Well, all right, I guess that's a fair way to put it: the lesser of evils.
unidentified
Well, that's maybe a little cryptic, a little on the edge there, but you'd like to think you can solve your problems without dragging the peds into it.
I'll leave it up for the, well, maybe I'll leave it up for a couple of hours, even after I'm off the air, for those of you that have the full commercial two-way version of fitting.
Have seen, I would say, movie 7, and we both agreed it was a total piece of crap.
What a waste of time and film, not to mention the money we spent on a Saturday night date.
It's films like that which make our communities and youth into the animals they turn out to be.
In nearly all cases, we agree with you.
Don't have a clue to what possibly you could have seen in that piece of trash.
There are plenty of good, decent movies to advertise.
Pick a movie with taste to talk about and encourage people to see.
Use your head.
Think.
David in Eagle Point, Oregon.
And I will say this, and I'll say it again.
Seven is one of the best movies I've ever seen in my whole life.
All right?
Let me be very, very clear about that.
It's one of the best movies I've seen in my whole life.
So I disagree with you, my friend.
But I will issue a warning, which Dan in Eugene, Oregon also says.
Art, the movie 7 makes Silence of the Lambs look like the Wizard of Oz.
You'd better warn your listeners, the film is very disturbing and not for all tastes.
It affected me like no other film since the original Night of the Living Dead did when I was very young.
Well, I wouldn't compare it in any way to Night of the Living Dead.
However, I guess I am not as affected by, you know, I don't want to go into I don't want to ruin the movie for anybody.
So I don't want to go into the plot and to discuss the nature of the violence in it, and there certainly is violence.
It's about a serial killer.
But it's not like any other movie you've ever seen, I guarantee, about a serial killer.
The focus, I just can't do it without giving away the plot, and I don't want to do that.
But the acting was Class A triple plus.
I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Or this.
Art, I just heard you raving, as well you should, about the film Seven.
I happen to have an extra copy of the original script, if you would like a copy.
Would I like a copy?
Would I like a copy?
I'd find a way to frame it or something.
I'm listening to the show now, so if you say yes, you want it, yes, I want it, and give me the post office box to ship it to, I'll be glad to get it out to you tomorrow.
In fact, I'll give you the whole address after I finish reading your facts.
I'm a writer here in Hollywood, and I do all of my writing at night while the mundanes sleep.
There are many times I thank the gods for your intellect and programming, keep the juices flowing, so to speak.
Another video I think you'd enjoy is The Prophecy.
I happen to have a post-production copy of the original film when it was titled God's Army.
Christopher Walken plays the Archangel Gabriel.
But I guarantee you, it's like you would never have dreamed of in a hundred lifetimes.
It'll keep you going almost as well as Seven.
Take care, I'll be listening.
Oh, yes.
Are you kidding?
These are both down my alley.
To have a copy of the script of Seven, I would be honored.
Seven was a remarkable, remarkable piece of work that I do not in any way consider to have been a display, as obviously of Faxer in Oregon did, a gratuitous display of violence.
It wasn't that.
Not in my opinion.
Maybe it was in the mood you're in when you saw it or something, but I have never been held as much on the edge of my seat as I was with Seven.
You take care, and I'll follow up on that and read the article.
And I said this the other night.
What was that on Dreamland?
I think it was on Dreamland.
The suggestion that the white people are descendant, or about two-thirds of them, I believe it was, are descendant of the Nordics, meaning not Nordic as we think of it, but Nordic, as in aliens, from another planet.
And that the actual inhabitants of Earth are brown and black-skinned.
To which I thought about that for a few moments, and I thought, gee, I'm an alien.
Married to an Earth chick.
Got to remember my wife is part Oriental, part Puerto Rican, part Hawaiian, part Chinese.
Well, I'm not so sure that that would cause a collapse because we found out, for example, they fed radiation to children, pregnant women in some cases.
So I'm not sure that would cause a collapse, but to find out that either there have been previous civilizations prior to ours or that there is an intelligence out there that has come to visit and or desires to have the real estate that we presently occupy, then you've got a problem.