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April 2, 1996 - Art Bell

02:50:11

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Euthanasia & Immigration - Open Lines

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and morning, as the case may be in all these many time zones, now actually worldwide, and I'll talk a little more about that tonight.
	Welcome.
	Good to have you.
	Coast to Coast AM is the show, but the coverage now It's sort of worldwide.
	It's actually amazing what's happened to this program.
	But, commercially, from the Hawaiian Islands, the Tahitian Islands, all the way across this great land, to the Caribbean, and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the pole, and worldwide via the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Gosh, it's good to be here, everybody.
	I want to get this out right away.
	I learned last night that Real Audio was down for a while on the internet, or if not most of the program, so there you are.
	Our international line works.
	Ta-da!
	AT&T has done it, folks.
	And we learned that throughout the evening, last evening.
	And we got it checked out from all kinds of locations around the world.
	And we'll give it out now.
	Along with the other numbers we have, we're now prepared to take free international calls.
	I say again, free international calls.
	We have, right here, right here in front of my finger, the first truly toll-free international line in the world.
	And AT&T did that for us, and I want to thank AT&T.
	Man, they have worked their butts off.
	And they actually did it.
	They didn't even know if they could do it.
	It was a challenge.
	And they took it up.
	So we have an international toll-free line.
	It will not cost you any money from anywhere in the world.
	And the way you call it... Now listen very, very carefully.
	It may vary a little country to country.
	In some countries, you're going to have to get the operator, like Hong Kong.
	But in many countries, all you've got to do is call up your operator and get the AT&T USA direct access number.
	Get it and dial it.
	And then dial 800-893-0903.
	It is going to take us a while, obviously, to develop this and for the word to get out.
	The new international line is now up on the webpage as well.
	But let me say it one more time.
	If you want to call internationally from wherever you are in the world, you're just toll free at that.
	Just an amazing thing, and I again, boy, thank you AT&T for all your work.
	Dial, and all the nasty things I said about AT&T.
	Dial your AT&T USA direct access number, and then our 800 8 9 3 0 9 0 3 number.
	That's 800 8 9 3 0 9 0 3 internationally when we begin taking calls.
	Now, the videotaped police beating of two suspected illegal immigrants has sparked outrage in Southern California's Mexican-American community.
	Trouble.
	It's also drawn condemnation from Mexico And concern from the White House, a statement from about everybody involved, Governor Wilson, who said it seems excessive force was used.
	Two sheriff's deputies were captured on videotape, beating the suspects, and they've been now suspended.
	It occurred in Riverside County, south of LA.
	And I began to see this story breaking last night, but intentionally did not comment on it, because it was simply too early.
	We didn't have enough details.
	We still don't have a lot, but we have a lot more.
	It was, of course, a high-speed chase on a California freeway.
	It was the police chasing a pickup truck, an open pickup truck, Loaded with what seemed to be illegal aliens at speeds varying from 80 to 100 miles an hour.
	It went on for an hour and a half.
	Then the truck stopped.
	The immigrants scattered.
	A man and woman who were in the truck were beaten with nightsticks.
	The man, receiving multiple bruises, possibly a fractured elbow, The woman dragged from the truck by her hair and then beaten.
	And beaten pretty hard with nightsticks.
	All of this was caught from above, of course, in the tradition of Rodney King by television cameras and replayed just like Rodney King was all day long Ad nauseum, I've seen that beating, I'm going to guess, 15 times.
	15 times.
	It's being investigated by the FBI and two Sheriff's Departments.
	The Riverside County Sheriff's Office is admitting they're embarrassed.
	They've put both deputies on paid leave pending an investigation of the whole thing and charges.
	In Washington, the Justice Department immediately moved, ordered the FBI in.
	All the illegal aliens who you saw scatter in the video are now in custody.
	They may be material witnesses.
	Everybody with a Rodney King mess on the mind moved quickly to prevent possible civil rights violations, and of course, to prevent angry community response.
	Nobody wants that.
	Now, the discussion going wild, of course, on talk radio is whether excessive brutality was used.
	Clearly it was.
	The ACLU, properly, is now wanting everybody to look into high-speed pursuits.
	What they call the high-speed pursuit syndrome.
	And I know exactly what it is.
	Now, you've got to bear in mind, this was no minor chase.
	It went on for an hour and a half.
	The people in the pickup truck threw things at the police car.
	Threw objects at the police car.
	The people in the truck began to pull parts of the truck apart and throw it at the police car.
	Two other innocent vehicles were sideswiped In the process.
	Now, we can discuss the details of what occurred.
	No question about it, police officers are human beings.
	And when they've chased somebody for an hour and a half, and people have been throwing things at them and trying to do violence to them and could have gotten them killed, and innocent people, by the way I might add, could have been killed on the highway, The problem is, once they were stopped, and I know the adrenaline by then is going crazy, the heart is beating a thousand miles an hour, and you're so damn angry at whoever's in that truck and wouldn't stop, that you're ready to spit.
	And you do.
	With your baton.
	So, here's what I'm prepared to say.
	You know, I've looked back over the years and I I have participated in law enforcement, uh, not as a cop, you know, as a dispatcher.
	And I know something about it.
	And these cops are human beings.
	They reacted to what was done to them.
	Maybe the danger to citizens, to the adrenaline of the rush, all the rest of it.
	Nothing justifies what they did.
	Because it seems like, um, the people were submissive.
	Now see, we couldn't hear what was going on on the ground, so we don't know what orders were being given, and perhaps disobeyed.
	We don't know the whole story yet, but it's pretty hard to deny that what we did see was not justified.
	That amount of force did not seem to be justified.
	That's my reaction, and I would assume that of most of you.
	Here's Scott.
	Hi Art!
	Just as the public's memory of Rodney King had begun to fade, the police in Southern California have shot themselves in the foot.
	In doing so, they reopened the wound in the public's trust and once again have cast all police officers in a poor light.
	In the seven years I've been in law enforcement, I've never carried a baton, nor have I needed one to subdue a suspect.
	That's not to say they are not a legitimate law enforcement weapon.
	Batons used in the manner in which they're intended are invaluable tools and often reduce the need to use lethal force.
	Ironically, I was just issued a collapsible baton yesterday.
	After a little soul-searching, I've decided I'll carry it.
	In the end, I have to trust in the training I've received and in myself to do the right thing.
	If I can't do that, then I shouldn't be carrying a baton, let alone a gun.
	So there you are.
	Scott, for the first time, called the program yesterday.
	And this, from Joan in Thousand Oaks, about Riverside, why isn't anybody addressing the safety and civil rights of all who were menaced by the illegals in the speeding, reckless driving, wreck-tossing truck, Now, that surely is a fair question.
	I mean, they tore across, they began to wreak havoc, they threw things, parts of the truck, sideswiped other cars.
	There were a lot of lives in danger here.
	By the way, it's just sort of loosely related, but I got this email and I thought you'd enjoy it.
	Just a note about our immigration problem.
	I am an agent at Brownfield Station.
	And almost all of the agents here listen to your show.
	I can say one thing for certain.
	Charlie is not an agent in San Diego.
	Every agent around here hates him more than anything else.
	Anyway, we're being overrun by aliens.
	And now the higher-ups are making us sit on X's.
	In other words, one stationary spot, and we can't move.
	So, when we see aliens run by, we call it in, and maybe somebody in a backup unit can chase them.
	I could tell you so many stories about behind-the-scenes action, or should I say, lack of it, in the San Diego sector.
	That's, of course, part of all this.
	Or another one, I've got lots.
	I'm writing to you due to the current firestorm of controversy surrounding the police beating that occurred yesterday afternoon in Southern California.
	I've watched the local and international news, and in every case, the top story is about this.
	I am a former deputy sheriff in Riverside County, now working for a federal law enforcement agency and was a classmate of Tracy Watkins, the deputy involved in the incident.
	Tracy has loved being a cop so much, he actually paid his own way through Southern California Peace Officers Academy.
	Following graduation, hired by the Riverside County Sheriff and assigned to the Lake Elsinore Station.
	I've never known Tracy to be heavy-handed, brutal, or unfair.
	He's performed his duties for the last five years in a manner that served the people of the community and his department well.
	Thirty seconds of a controversial videotape Does not equal five years of service to his community.
	And this is being overlooked.
	There is very little being said about the group of illegal aliens who were in the vehicle that was being pursued.
	The vehicle had been running since it ran a border checkpoint at Temecula, which is located north of San Diego on Interstate 15.
	It continued for about 80 miles until its conclusion With both the U.S.
	Border Patrol and Riverside Sheriff's Department involved in the chase.
	The media is not showing the occupants of the truck throwing everything from beer bottles to destroying, then following the entire camper shell, then throwing the camper shell.
	That's right, they were riding in at the police and other vehicles.
	The driver of the truck was driving extremely recklessly and even rammed several vehicles in an attempt to cause an accident So they could avoid being caught.
	So that gives you a little bit of perspective on all of this as you begin to prepare to comment.
	And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of comment about it.
	There's a lot of other news and I'm just not getting through it fast enough.
	In New York, A federal appeals court ruling on the right to die.
	This is a very serious ruling.
	The question is what is a doctor's obligation to a terminally ill patient who wants to commit suicide?
	Now what is that doctor's obligation?
	Answer from the federal appeals court is that The court shall not ban doctors, the Constitution does not ban doctors, from the practice of helping patients to die.
	Today's decision really leaves no doubt at all.
	Physicians have a constitutional right in helping patients to die.
	A constitutional right.
	The court said, quote, listen to this, Physicians do not fulfill the role of killer by prescribing drugs any more than they do by disconnecting life support systems.
	The Catholic Church, as you can well imagine, is not happy about this and they call it excessive judicial interference.
	The whole thing now is headed to the US Supreme Court.
	So we shall see.
	But I do believe that if you look at the decision in Washington, now New York, that there is going to be a decision from the U.S.
	Supreme Court that is going to rival in its controversial nature that of Roe v. Wade.
	This will be as big a decision in its own way as Roe v. Wade.
	And I would bet you the High Court rules and holds up the decision in Washington, now the one in New York, which basically legitimizes doctor-assisted suicide.
	The focus of all this has been on Dr. K, right?
	He's the guy who's grabbed the headlines.
	But as I've told you right along, This has been an issue far bigger than Kevorkian.
	Kevorkian is just one very public case.
	In America, doctors behind the scenes and quietly and without all the hoopla have been helping patients to die for as long as I've been around.
	They do that.
	It just occurs.
	In other words, in the progress of a fatal disease, AIDS, cancer, Whatever it would be in the final stages.
	It gets to the point where the amount of medication the doctor must prescribe to truly take away the pain is very close to a lethal dose.
	You know, right on the edge.
	And if the patient has that medicine around, obviously they can and do leave prematurely.
	Choosing not to go through the final agonizing throws The horrible throes, I might add, of a very painful death.
	And I have been on the side of this for a very long time.
	I know it's a slippery slope and I don't want to slide down, but I also see no reason to let people suffer.
	Do you?
	Do you?
	Is there a reason?
	My wife once told me there was.
	And I've been thoughtful about it.
	That a painful death is something that you are supposed to go through.
	And if you're supposed to go through it, and I've thought and thought and thought about this, that in essence there's a kind of a bad karmic end if you take the easy way out and it will destiny you to relive an even more difficult time In another life, or another existence.
	I don't know.
	The other way of looking at it is, you know, God intends for you to go through this.
	It is part of your individual life cycle, and you should go through it, and not shorten it.
	So I've been very thoughtful about it.
	It's a very thoughtful topic.
	I wonder what you think.
	Late report on the Freeman, quickly.
	They've got a lot of firepower, I guess.
	We're hearing now they've got a .50 caliber full machine gun.
	Now it may be somebody's got a license for that.
	I don't know.
	They haven't said.
	But it looks like they've got a lot of guns there.
	A lot of guns.
	Plus, they've got an explosives expert.
	Somebody who's worked with dynamite.
	So, if it comes to blows, it will be big blows.
	Okay, this is where we're gonna break at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	I have yet a little more, and then off into Talk Radioville we go.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2, 1996.
	This is a replay of the original song by the band, and I'm not gonna spoil it for you.
	I'm not gonna spoil it for you.
	to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	Oh, woe is me.
	Here come the faxes.
	And the response to the beating, I can already tell what it's going to be like, you're not going to believe it.
	Or maybe you are.
	Now I say woe is me because I know what this is going to bring.
	Art, instead of beating two illegal immigrants, how about shooting 2,000 of them?
	They'd get the message not to cross illegally, huh?
	Some of us taxpayers have had enough.
	CG in Pasadena, California, a nice reasoned, moderate response, followed by this, hi Art, beat them?
	Any piece of garbage who comes into this country illegally should be executed on the spot.
	End of conversation.
	Basement John.
	P.S.
	While you're at it, hang every S.O.B.
	in the A.C.L.U.
	Sheesh!
	Guys, why don't we start out with a nice, moderate response to all of this?
	Holy mackerel!
	I'm going to tell you what I think.
	It's the same thing I have always thought.
	And here it comes.
	I think the U.S.
	ought to build a wall.
	I have thought for years and years the U.S.
	should build a wall.
	We had the technology back in Nam to detect people crawling along a trail thousands of miles away.
	They could sit in Washington and they could watch the traffic and tell you how many footsteps there were trotting along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in the dark of night.
	I mean, we had that technology then.
	Imagine what we've got now.
	We have the power, and have had it, not the will, to close our border.
	And that doesn't mean keep all immigrants out.
	That means simply know who cometh and goeth.
	And if we would do that, we wouldn't have high-speed chases north of San Diego, past a checkpoint.
	That kind of thing wouldn't happen, because we would know who's on our highway.
	And if they want to stop it, that's how they can do it.
	Do we have a right to know who's bringing in cocaine and heroin, the majority of which comes from the Mexican border?
	You're damn right we do.
	That's a federal area.
	Our border is a federal area.
	And we should erect a fence, a wall, an electronic barrier, whatever it takes, and then this kind of thing would not occur.
	Or at least if it did, it would be damn rare.
	So, that's what I think.
	Do I think excessive force was used?
	Yeah, probably was.
	There was probably no need to subdue them in that manner, although even there is a little bit of a question, but anybody who watched the videotape can't be in great doubt.
	Well, I've got a whole lot more here, but not more time, so let me hit my international number one more time here, folks.
	I'm kind of proud of it.
	AT&T got the toll-free international line open so no matter where you are in the world you can call us toll-free.
	All you've got to do is call your AT&T USA direct access number, and if you don't have it, you can get it from your
	operator anywhere in the world.
	And then the following number.
	800-893-0903 And for you, anywhere, it will be toll free.
	So, get the word out.
	Relatives, friends living overseas, let them know.
	Whether you're listening on one of our great 50,000-watt stations broadcasting from this country, or anywhere else, you can call us toll-free now.
	The Internet.
	The USA Direct Access Number, then 800-893 0903.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening to you.
	Hi.
	I wanted to comment on your wife's musings about karmic debt concerning suffering at the end of life.
	Yes.
	And how, you know, you might come back and have to do it again.
	I perceive that along with Christian thought and Asian thought concerning karma, it's been very easy to point to the suffering as somebody's lot in life for their karmic debt.
	But in reality, I see it as more profoundly a societal karmic debt that causes such suffering
	for the masses as seen in overpopulation, etc., etc.
	And if it came to the conclusion about suffering, it would have been a death.
	I'm really unable to grasp, for my own consideration, the greater karmic thing that you're talking
	about with regard to society's behavior.
	To me, this is reduced to what I would do myself.
	How about you?
	What I would do at the end of life?
	Yeah, let's say that you had a fatal disease, cancer, AIDS, doesn't matter, whatever, it was going to end painfully and soon, and you were in the last throes of it.
	Should a doctor have a right to help you end it sooner than it would otherwise end?
	Prevent that horrible end suffering?
	Well, yes, I believe I should have access and probably would to morphine, as you were saying, and would be able to do that.
	And it's already being done.
	Well, the question is, the challenger here, is whether you think, and I've really thought about this for years after my wife said it to me, we had a talk about it, whether you are meant, in effect, by God or nature or whatever it is, whether you believe there's going to be another life or whether you believe this one simply must be concluded in its totality, including the suffering at the end, whether it's karmically proper you go through that, Or it's okay to take a shortcut, bow out, say goodnight, that's it, I've had enough, I'm out of here.
	Well I think naturally morphine is there to help alleviate suffering and people are able to utilize what is here for that purpose.
	I think that you should run for office because you answered a question with the skill of Well, Newt Gingrich.
	Oh, no.
	Yes.
	You like him, I don't, so I can't relate.
	Sorry.
	Well, you pick them.
	They're all about saying left or right.
	They're good politicians.
	They have the ability to answer a question without ever answering it.
	Well, I think I answered it by saying that more so it's societal.
	Karmic problem.
	Yeah, but I talked about you and asked about you and you talked about society.
	Uh-huh.
	Yeah, but that society is dictating what, you know, the individual does.
	All right, dear.
	Thank you.
	Well, obviously I'm not going to go any farther than that.
	On my international line, which is ringing... Hello!
	Hello there.
	Hello!
	I'm Kumi.
	Oh, where are you?
	In Japan.
	You're in Japan?
	Yes.
	Well, you are on the air.
	Yeah.
	All over the world.
	Yeah.
	Where in Japan are you?
	Do you know Fukui Prefecture?
	Say it again, please.
	Fukui Prefecture, near Osaka.
	Near Osaka.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And how are you hearing us?
	How are you hearing?
	Yes, how do you hear us?
	On a computer?
	No.
	I heard this radio program from my friend.
	I see.
	Well, your English is quite good.
	Thank you very much.
	I can't speak English well.
	Yes, you're doing fine.
	What did you hear on this program?
	Eh?
	What?
	No, I've never heard this radio program.
	Then how did you get this phone number?
	I heard this line from my friend.
	Maybe he is hearing this radio program?
	Yes.
	Now, he said to me, could you call this line?
	I tried to call this line 5 or 6 times.
	5 or 6 times.
	What is your friend's name?
	Huh?
	What is your friend's name?
	Name?
	Name.
	Ah, his name?
	Yes.
	Ah, his name is Dave.
	Dave?
	Well, good.
	Jerry.
	Jerry?
	Yeah.
	Okay, you can say, Hi Jerry.
	Hi, Daddy!
	And what is your first name?
	First name?
	Yes.
	Me?
	Yes.
	Ah, Kumi.
	Kumi.
	I'm Kumi.
	Kumi.
	Yeah.
	Okay, Kumi.
	Well, you said hi to him.
	Eh?
	I said, you said hello to him.
	That's nice.
	Hello, Daddy.
	Kumi, anything else?
	Hmm.
	Uh, yeah, Jerry, could you call me, uh, later?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	There you are.
	That's the message.
	Could you call me later?
	All the way from a prefecture whose name I did not quite get.
	Kumi.
	Oh, I could see this is going to be fun.
	This is going to be fun.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, I have a question on the man from Napa, Richard.
	Richard Hoagland.
	Yeah, I heard a tape of the program you did with him when he announced the press conference, and I haven't heard your program since.
	I was wondering... Oh, my sir, there's been about a thousand miles of water under the bridge since then.
	What I would suggest to you, we have the photographs on our website, so you can get them there.
	And take a look, or you can wait and see them in our newsletter, where they're going to be published.
	One of the two.
	Okay, did any NAFTA officials come forward with them?
	There was talk of me being an astronaut.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, they did.
	But one of the archive people who took care of the photographs came forward.
	So yes, but I really can't fill you in on all of this.
	Catch up with it on the website or our newsletter.
	I realize that.
	I'm amazed that the networks, The major networks haven't picked this up.
	Well, many of the major networks did pick it up.
	There was an article in the Washington Post, the Associated Press ran a story, CNN was running a story, so you missed it.
	Okay?
	Thank you.
	Thank you, sir.
	Sorry I can't kind of do a replay of the whole thing, but there was a very great deal that went on.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Eric.
	Good morning.
	You didn't tell us the most important news of the day.
	Where did you find Comet?
	Oh, yes, yes, yes.
	And almost had a heart attack in the process.
	We searched every corner of our house for this wildcat of ours, and he was not to be found.
	Just when we were thinking, well, maybe he figured out a way to get outside, impossible though it seems, because we couldn't find him.
	And so we went in and opened a drawer, In a chest of drawers, and somehow, somehow, he had crawled up behind the chest of drawers and crawled into a drawer, where he was curled up and happy.
	When we opened that drawer, sir, true to his name, like a streak of orange, he came flying out of that drawer, and both of us just about had a total heart attack.
	Well, you know, I was trying to get through to you last night, and that was one of the places I was going to tell you to check, because my cat used to do that.
	That's psychic?
	He's having this little internal fight with himself.
	He's living in the bathroom, and that's his safe place.
	And you'll hear his meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, like this.
	And what he's doing is, he's fighting with himself.
	It's like, I want to come out.
	I'm lonely.
	I really want friends.
	But, you know, I'm scared to death of you.
	And so that's exactly where it is.
	And he's venturing out now.
	He'll steal out from his room and walk around the living room a little bit.
	And then suddenly get spooked and go running back to his bathroom.
	And then you'll hear a meow and he'll fight with himself for a while and he'll come out again.
	And he'll look around.
	It really is pretty cool, actually.
	We're watching a completely wild animal discover a civilized world.
	And he's not banging into walls anymore, anything like that.
	He's walking.
	So, things are a-changing, and it's really, really fun to watch.
	But, man, if you could have seen that cat come shootin' out of that door... Whew!
	Heart attack time.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes.
	Uh, this is Jeff from Houston.
	Hi, Jeff.
	Hi, I wanted to talk a little bit about what happened in California.
	Yes, sir.
	Now, the ACLU is trying to say that those police officers violated their civil rights.
	If they were illegal aliens, they don't have civil rights.
	Yes, they do.
	They do?
	How, if they're not legal citizens?
	Anybody on our soil enjoys the same rough civil rights we do.
	Not all of them, but Yeah, they have civil rights.
	The right not to be beaten unnecessarily, have excessive force used.
	They have the right to, generally, to an attorney.
	They have the right to go through our judicial system and be judged as we would be.
	So, those are civil rights.
	Okay, let me tell you a little story about the ACLU.
	Now, here in Houston, they had a Holocaust Museum open up.
	And, uh, some of my friends went down there, and they were denied entry in there on the opening day.
	Why?
	Uh, well, they said that you need a special invitation.
	Now, before they went... Well, a lot of places, that's not unusual, sir.
	When you have an opening to something, uh, you have a special one-day, uh, invitation list of people, and then the general public, uh, gets to go the next day or something.
	Well, no, I had called that morning to make sure, and I asked them if it was open to the public today, and they said yes.
	And when they got there, I guess the manager, the owner, or whatever, had a police officer come over and kick them off the property.
	Mm-hmm.
	For the simple fact that they were proud white men.
	Now... What does that mean?
	Well, they were a member of an organization there just to observe what kind of lies the Holocaust Museum was portraying in there.
	What do you mean by proud white men?
	They were exactly what I said.
	Proud white men.
	That's all the key.
	What does that mean?
	And what's the organization you belong to?
	It's the National Socialist Organization.
	National Socialist Organization.
	Yes.
	And what is their view of the Holocaust?
	Well, that most of it's a lie.
	There were not 6 million Jews in Germany at the time.
	Do you think that it makes any difference whether it was 2 million, even 1 million, or 6 million that were killed?
	Yes.
	Do I think it makes a difference?
	Yeah, does it make a difference?
	It doesn't matter to me.
	The only thing is, they're lying.
	So not one Jew was killed, is that it?
	Well, what about the city of Dresden?
	Let's have you stay with my question.
	Do you think not one Jew was killed, and the whole thing is a lie?
	Do I not think one Jew was killed?
	And the whole thing was a lie?
	No, I'm not saying the whole thing was a lie.
	How much of it was a lie?
	How many Jews do you think were killed?
	I'd say probably no more than two million.
	No more than two million?
	Yeah.
	And what would you say about that?
	What would I say about that?
	The time of war.
	The time of war?
	Yeah.
	Alright, thanks for the call.
	Well, I think you told me basically what I suspected you would tell me based on what you said.
	Just a couple million.
	It's war.
	You know, when there's a war, why, you can march people in showers and gas them.
	You, sir, are a white Aryan.
	You, sir, are a white supremacist.
	You, sir, are probably, um, a Nazi as well.
	If not, have sympathy with Nazis.
	That's what I would conclude from what you, uh, tiptoed about and tried to say.
	So that's what I think.
	First time caller.
	Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	It's finally good to talk to you.
	How are you doing?
	I'm fine.
	Where are you?
	I'm TJ.
	I'm calling from Colorado Springs.
	Excellent.
	Excellent.
	I really enjoy your program.
	I was wondering if you'd ever thought of having Richard Bach.
	Do you know the author of Jonathan Livingston Segal?
	Yes.
	Anyone from the Loma Method?
	One of my truly all-time favorites.
	God, I love that.
	The reason I ask is that Gordon Michael Scallion had said something about the things he saw possibly being changed by people getting a positive attitude.
	Of course.
	And these are people that have really helped me to change my life, to think in a more positive way.
	And I just thought it'd be good to hear.
	You're right, it would make a good show and I'd love to have him on.
	So that'd be one interview that I would absolutely love to do.
	Sure.
	Listen, I've got to run.
	We're at the top of the hour in news time and all that stuff.
	Good to talk to you.
	I'm glad you called.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Alright, we are going to break here.
	I'll find out what's going on as if we didn't know, and we'll be right back with more.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2, 1996.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert series.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired April 2, 1996.
	That's exactly what it is.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	We also have our new international toll-free, that's right, toll-free line.
	No matter where you are in the world, or how you're hearing us, you can call us toll-free.
	And the way you do it is call your AT&T USA direct access number, You can get that from the operator.
	Just call the operator and ask her what is the USA access number.
	And then after you do that, call 800-893-0903.
	Once again, 800-893-0903.
	That's our new toll-free international line.
	0 3 once again 800 8 9 3 0 9 0 3 that's our new toll-free international line
	the first toll-free international line in the whole world there have been toll
	free lines from certain countries to certain countries but never have they
	opened up the entire world to toll-free calling It's cool.
	And it's working.
	Dear Art, regarding the virulent and vicious anti-immigrant sentiments, how many of these good humanitarians want to pick crops?
	I'd damn sure rather my tax dollars be used to educate the children of illegals than go to disgusting corporate welfare and obscene government waste.
	Liberal Sue in Illinois.
	Chiming in.
	Well, um, yes, but we need not have the problem as I explained last hour.
	There's no reason why we can't control our borders.
	We had the facilities, the ability to do that long, long ago.
	And, uh, so that's the answer to the problem.
	I mean, control the borders.
	Know what comes and goes, who comes and goes.
	It doesn't mean no immigrants to pick crops.
	We've had a bracerio program and could have another.
	We can let the people in we want in.
	No problem.
	But we need to guard the borders.
	Be a good mission for this president.
	Be a very popular one, too.
	Uh, then there's cops shouldn't lose control.
	And yes, we do have rights.
	We have rights to a secure border, we have rights to safe roads, and we have rights to an orderly society.
	Right on, Mike.
	And then the other issue we're talking about, because of the New York decision, aren't doctor-assisted suicide has legitimate arguments, both pro and con.
	But my fear, and maybe unfounded, is that how long is it going to be before the patient is not included in the loop for such decisions?
	Would we have euthanasia?
	Well, that is, of course, the bottom of the slippery slope.
	But I'm not sure that it's an absolute ride that would be taken.
	maybe even Hillary types, be making this private decision intentioned for the family and their doctor.
	Well, that is, of course, the bottom of the slippery slope, but I'm not sure that it's an absolute ride that would be
	taken.
	It's a long jump between a patient's personal decision and somebody else making that decision for them.
	To me it is.
	That's a big jump.
	All right, anyway, back to the phones.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello there.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Going on wild card line.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	It's Leonard of South Dakota.
	Well, you know what I wish?
	I wish you'd let me get on the air with you and sit down as a friend and discuss a few things instead of treating me as an adversary and cutting me off.
	Well, Leonard, I cut everybody off.
	Well, there's a few things I'd like to... Equal opportunity cutoff, Leonard.
	There's some things that some of your listeners would like you to see too, and you don't want to see them.
	You won't let anybody tell you.
	People tell me all the time, Leonard, but the only vision that there'll be will come from me.
	And despite all your best words, and all the best words of anybody out there, Leonard, I'm the one who's got to have the vision.
	Okay?
	Well, that's right.
	But don't you want to make the decision on the truth?
	I want to make the decision on my own, Leonard.
	Thank you, and there we go again with another equal opportunity cutoff.
	I don't want to be preached to.
	These are personal issues, and of course Leonard speaks of religion, that I'm working on myself.
	And we're here to do a talk show, not have a preaching session.
	If you want to do that, do it on Sunday in church.
	You know, I'll work it out myself, Leonard.
	No kidding.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hey, hi, Art.
	How you doing?
	It's Robert calling from Phoenix.
	Hi, Robert.
	You got through so fast.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, hi.
	I was calling to talk about this Montana thing.
	Okay.
	I hope that's the subject you're talking about.
	These are open lines, partner.
	Okay.
	Well, I have an idea of what they should do there.
	It's still going on, isn't it?
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah.
	Well, these people, they don't believe that they're Americans.
	And they haven't given their consent to be governed, and they think that they have a right not to be governed until they give their consent.
	So I think that what we should do is have Congress declare their property to be foreign soil and declare war on them.
	Why would you want to, in effect, cede the sovereignty of this country to a bunch of uh... a bunch of jerks what would be over in a short time they have to know you but what we don't need to do that without acknowledges their claim of sovereignty they don't have a sovereign anything there except as sovereign as any of us are on our own property well there's has been uh... uh... declared uh... they didn't pay for it uh... and there have been eviction notices foreclosures and
	That's the name of that tune.
	We don't need to declare them a foreign country.
	That's ridiculous.
	Well, then I thought we could declare all the freemen living in the United States as foreign agents and spies and clean them up that way.
	Alright, well, that's ridiculous.
	That would simply add weight to their worthless claims.
	What's in a name, Art?
	The standoff between federal officers and the freemen in Montana ...is disturbing on several fronts.
	The patriot jerks that have been defrauding merchants of bogus checks and generally being thorns in their neighbor's sides for more than a year, their arguments against law and order are specious.
	That part said, I do not understand the reasoning that makes it permissible or desirable to send in the FBI and BATF in a media frenzy.
	Average Americans write bad checks every day and don't risk such a reaction.
	Yes sir, but they don't threaten Local law enforcement officials.
	They don't defraud people.
	They don't take people's farms.
	They don't declare themselves to be sovereign when they are not sovereign.
	We are a nation of states in a union, aren't we?
	The United States of America.
	So the way to solve this is not to Agree with them that there are sovereign little fiefdoms and kingdoms within the United States.
	No way.
	West of the Rockies?
	You would have been on the air.
	East of the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Can you do that?
	Yeah, turn it off, Steve.
	Steve, turn it... Steve figures.
	Steve would have the volume up, of course.
	Anyway, where are you calling from, sir?
	Indianapolis, Indiana.
	Is this Art?
	Yes, it is.
	Oh, hey, how's it going?
	I guess there must be a delay, huh?
	Of course.
	It's called an Art Bell Career Protecting Delay.
	Oh.
	I didn't realize that.
	Well, my brother just told me about that I could get you on the W-O-A-I live feed over the Internet, and I just listened to you the last couple nights.
	There you are.
	That is really cool.
	It is cool, yes.
	Very cool.
	Now, all that goes worldwide, you know.
	Yeah, I heard Kumi.
	I heard Kumi just call it a little while ago.
	Yeah, she said hi to her boyfriend.
	You know what I was thinking about after she called?
	What's that?
	Um, it's nice to hear from these little Japanese girls and others saying hi to their, obviously, to their American boyfriends.
	But, um, you know, what if there's some wife out there, you know, sitting out there someplace, who would hear some cute little Japanese girl call in from some unnameable prefecture saying hi to her husband?
	Not cool.
	Just a thought.
	That's funny.
	Anyway, what can I do for you, sir?
	Well, my roommate just had to write the number down, so he was so excited he got through, I was like, I don't know what I want to talk about tonight.
	But I do really kind of, you know the organization Hospice, don't you?
	Yes, I do.
	You've heard of that?
	Well, I just read a really interesting article the other day here on the Indianapolis Star comparing Hospice to Dr. Kevorkian.
	You know, I just had a cousin that passed away recently, and I wasn't there when she passed away, but I know that it says, in lieu of sending flowers, give money to the organization Hospice.
	Sure.
	And I didn't even realize that it was about exactly what it was about.
	Well, it's not necessarily about assisted suicides.
	Hospice is a place where people go to spend their final days, although I suppose these issues are Certainly present in a hospice.
	In other words, as you increase the dose of painkiller or whatever required to control the pain, you get to the point where you're on the edge of a lethal dose.
	Right, right.
	And I suspected that it was the fact that that was maybe what happened and possibly Julie passed away before the disease really would have actually took her.
	Well, what are your feelings about that?
	Julie, you say, would you Rather now think that Julie suffered painfully until the very, very end or that she was helped or made a decision on her own to hasten it?
	I think the hospice probably helped her or let her make a decision to go ahead and increase the morphine or whatever.
	How do you feel about that?
	Well, I think that it's a lot nicer of a thing than In the back of a van in a parking lot with Dr. Kevorkian.
	Here, here.
	To be in your home, in your bed, with people around you that you love.
	Yes, sir.
	Thank you.
	Look, I... Dr. Kevorkian is just very public, but this is a far, far bigger issue and has been going on in this country for a long time.
	Very privately, between physicians and families and patients.
	And everybody knows it.
	It's just that we're now beginning to get court decisions that legalize it.
	Legalize it.
	We're in a very litigation-minded society, and there had to be a decision about this made.
	Now, the latest, of course, in New York, saying that a doctor has a constitutional right, a constitutional right, to help a patient end it.
	This is going to the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	The Catholic Church will find it every inch of the way.
	So, Dr. Kevorkian is just a name that is presently at the head of this list.
	And you really, really ought to know that it's going on all over the place anyway.
	And so I guess we've got to ask ourselves what we want in our society, whether we want a patient and a doctor to be able to make that decision legally or not.
	So what is your answer?
	Mr. Bell, the only way to gain a proper perspective on assisted death is to look into the eyes of a loved one who
	is lying there in pain, with a broken heart, and a broken heart.
	Brought on by one of God's wonderful diseases.
	Or be that person, Dave in Sarasota, Florida.
	It's kind of another slash at God, huh?
	Greetings from Memphis, just drifting off to sleep during the Dr. K debate.
	One thing to add to the pondering.
	Medical science has given us the ability to prolong life, which sometimes implies prolonging suffering.
	Should an individual not have the right to be able to ease that suffering and end their own life, which may conceivably be artificially prolonged in the first place, euthanasia is fair game for those incapable of making their own decisions.
	Why not for those who are capable?
	Enjoy the show quite a bit.
	Can't wait to upgrade my computer and catch you on Videon.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Mark.
	I'm calling from Vincennes, Indiana.
	Yes, sir.
	My name's Tim.
	Hi, Tim.
	I just had to turn down my 818CS.
	Ah, is that a fine machine or what?
	Yeah, I really do like it.
	I'm managing to get a little luck with the shortwave antenna, too.
	What'd you put up?
	I picked up Russia.
	No, I mean what kind of shortwave antenna?
	I just got the one that they sent with it.
	The older, the little one.
	Okay.
	Well, one day, one day, one day, take about 60 feet of wire, put an insulator on the end of it, throw it up in a tree or, you know, up to another side of an apartment or wherever you've got there, and it'll go nuts.
	I mean, you'll just hear ten times what you hear now.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	Hey, I'm the one that wanted to name your cat Cusco.
	Remember that?
	Yeah, and that was a close second, but it turns out Comet really does fit.
	Oh yeah, I agree.
	Especially with the antics Comet's been pulling.
	I like Comet.
	I mean, we're at the end of the line.
	Opened the drawer, and he had nestled himself in an underwear drawer.
	He was very happy there, but he came flying out of there like a shot out of a gun.
	And talk about having a heart attack.
	Sheesh.
	You know, it's like, you remember Alien?
	Yeah.
	Oh yeah, the little orange cat?
	Yeah, just like that.
	Believe me, the same, when you're in the movie and you saw it, your heart jumped.
	In real life, your whole body flexes.
	It was terrible.
	I had an experience with a wild cat one time.
	I caught a pigeon, and there was this wild cat, and I was in the Navy, and we were on Oh, an area where we shined our shoes.
	Yeah.
	And I caught this pigeon.
	Yes.
	And, uh, there was a wild cat sittin' there.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, it looked pretty dolpho.
	Boy, it looked like Comet jumped.
	Yep.
	Oh, man, I got near it with it, with that pigeon I caught, and the thing attacked it in my hand.
	Oh, no!
	There was, uh, there was, I forget what it was.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	My wife and I saw a movie in which, it was a comedy, remember?
	It wasn't even a movie.
	It was a comedy skit.
	In which all animals turned against their owners.
	And it was horrible.
	Dogs and cats jumping on people's faces, you know, and they're struggling to get the dogs and the cats off, and all the animals in the world that turned against their owners.
	Even goldfish were leaping out of bowls and doing unmentionable things to people.
	It was, uh, it was pretty funny.
	Well, let me see.
	What have I got to get done?
	Do I have anything I've got to get done?
	No?
	I think I'm clear.
	Don't forget our new international line.
	It's up and running.
	It's totally cool.
	Wherever you are in the world, we want to hear from you.
	If you're listening on the internet in Europe, in Britain, in Australia, it doesn't matter where you are.
	It's toll free.
	It won't cost you any money.
	So call us.
	Get the AT&T USA direct access number for America.
	And then simply dial 800-893-0903.
	Now, in some countries, like we found out yesterday in Hong Kong, you've got to call the operator, and she'll take the 800 number from you, and there'll be no charge.
	USA Direct Access, then 800-893-0903.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	I'm sorry?
	You're on the air!
	to the Rockies you're on the air hello sorry you're on the air why are you
	sorry I'm not sorry Okay.
	Go ahead then.
	I'll turn my radio down.
	I'm calling from San Diego.
	Uh, from, uh, San Diego.
	Yes, uh-huh.
	And I was wondering if you ever feel like you're working in a museum?
	No.
	Why all the people call up and say, is this art?
	Oh, that was a little funny, huh?
	Well, not too funny, I guess.
	What I'm calling about really is, um, I guess the President sent back the, uh, uh, long, uh, for the babies aborted and, uh, close to being birth, giving birth.
	Late-term abortions.
	Right.
	Uh, the bill the President, uh, said he would veto, yes.
	And he did.
	Uh, he sent it back to Congress.
	Uh, I was wondering if they were Well, it's a very good question.
	It's a very, very good question.
	in this matter how many uh...
	of the human rights groups would be around uh... fighting for that
	if they were doing prisoners in this manner no pun intended
	uh... well it's a very good question it's a very very good question
	first-time caller line you're on the air aloha
	Goodbye.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, this is Virginia.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Art.
	Yes, where are you, Virginia?
	I am in Greenville, South Carolina.
	Very good.
	And I was very interested in the facts that you received earlier about the big leap to euthanasia against the patient's will.
	Yes.
	I happen to be a registered nurse and this already has happened.
	I'm sure it has.
	There have been nurses arrested for what amounts to murder.
	This was what I would call murder by default.
	A patient that we had in the hospital that had essentially ruined his own life and had been in the hospital for many, many months would probably never be able to go home.
	I overheard the doctors in the hallway.
	Listen, hon, I want you to stop your story right there because we're coming up on a break, so hold on through the break.
	It's our nickel.
	We'll hold you and come right back to you after the break, alright?
	Okey-doke.
	Okay, stay right there.
	We've got a nurse's point of view on euthanasia.
	Or is it doctor-assisted suicide?
	Or is it murder?
	Well, we'll find out.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2, 1996.
	This is a compilation of the songs from the first episode of Coast to Coast.
	The first episode features a new song, which is a tribute to the late 1980s rock band.
	The song is called, Get It On, and it features a song by the late 1980s rock band,
	which is a tribute to the late 1980s rock band, and a song by the late 1980s rock band,
	which is a tribute to the late 1980s rock band, and a song by the late 1980s rock band,
	which is a tribute to the late 1980s rock band, which is a tribute to the late 1980s rock band,
	you're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	Once again, here we are.
	Live, that's right, live overnight talk radio.
	Right here.
	Now with sort of an international flavor, as we can get it going.
	The international line, dial AT&T USA Direct.
	Get that number.
	The AT&T USA direct number, access number, then call 800-893-0903.
	800-893-0903 internationally.
	Now back to a young nurse, you're back on the air again.
	Yes, I wanted, understood that this was a 35 year old man, the patient was.
	three internationally now back to a young nurse uh... you're back on the air
	again yes uh... i wanted
	and i think that that's what the thirty five-year-old man the patient left
	uh... that happened at a university affiliated hospital of very very well-known university at
	with a very well-known doctor who made the decision
	This man overheard the physicians in the hallway saying that they were no longer going to assist him when he was in a life-and-death situation with respiratory problems.
	No heroic measures, yes?
	None.
	We're not talking about a comatose patient.
	We're not talking about a vegetable.
	We're not talking about someone who was About to die.
	What was wrong with him?
	Well, he had abused alcohol and drugs, and he had just ruined his body.
	His heart was in bad trouble, his kidneys were in bad trouble, and he accumulated a lot of fluid in his body, which essentially suffocated and drowned him.
	And he needed help, very frequently, from respiratory therapy to survive.
	I've got you.
	And they made a decision not to intervene.
	Right.
	He overheard this and a nurse heard him crying in his room.
	She went in to ask him what the problem was and he told her that he was not ready to die.
	He did not want to die.
	He had heard what the doctor said and she went to the doctors concerned and told them what the patient said.
	He didn't want to die.
	The doctor's response to this was to go to his chart and write DNR, which means Do Not Resuscitate.
	They called his brother, who was a minister, and told him the next time he got into trouble, they would not be resuscitating him.
	And within 24 hours, he was dead.
	Well, that's quite a story.
	It's absolutely true, and if you like, I can send you a copy of the letter of protest written by the nurses, because I wrote it.
	On their behalf.
	I would appreciate that.
	Yes.
	I really would appreciate that.
	Would you send that, please?
	I absolutely will, if you'll give me the information.
	I don't know how to send anything to you.
	All right, you don't have a fax machine, do you?
	No, I don't.
	All right, then my address is Art Bell, Post Office Box 4755, in a strange-named town.
	I've been by it.
	Oh, you have?
	All right.
	Uh, 4755 Pahrump, Nevada.
	P-A-H-R-U-M-P, Nevada.
	Zip code 89041.
	89041.
	Dash 4755.
	Dash 4755.
	Okay?
	Yes.
	Alright, thank you very much, and I'll look forward to that.
	Uh, well that, uh, that would seem to be, although we don't know the medical particulars, that would seem to be Bit of a slide down the slippery slope on the face of it.
	That brings up the opposite point of view.
	Somebody who wants to live, who wants to live, expresses a vocal desire to live and is denied the measures to attempt to achieve that.
	So that's a pretty serious story.
	And I don't want that, and you shouldn't want that, and nobody should want that.
	But I don't know that that changes my view, which is that the New York and Washington decisions were correct.
	We just have to be very careful.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	This is Tom from Phoenix.
	Hi, Tom.
	Yeah, I was calling in regards to the acceptance of alien culture.
	cultures coming into it as far as that's concerned um...
	i think right now it is for you're right as far as um...
	people not accepting it well let's let's test you a little bit i'd say i'm an
	alien uh... the lead uh... i'm the leader of the lead ship of a
	large number of ships and i come to earth and i land
	and i say we've got news for you
	We've figured out, we think you're ready.
	We are your creators.
	We created you.
	We did a lot of DNA work, which we continue to monitor and do today, and we created you.
	There is not, as you understand it, a God other than us, you know, the gray guys here.
	We did the work.
	We are your fathers and mothers.
	Now, how do you think that news would be greeted?
	It would be very devastating to a lot of people.
	Or, if I came down and regarded you as a potato chip, you wouldn't be real happy about it, right?
	Nope.
	So, there are various possibilities.
	If I came down and I said, we're from the Pleiades, and we've been watching you for a long time, we've been around for thousands more years than you have, And we're just here to say hi.
	Even that would be extremely disturbing, so the Brookings Report, in my opinion, is probably correct.
	Yeah, I totally agree with you on that.
	Alright, well thank you.
	You know, Richard Hoagland holds another view, but I think that's more of his personal view.
	I think Richard Hoagland is ready, and a lot of other people are, and even I might be able to accept it, but I've been doing talk radio a long time, and I know there are a lot of people out there that are not ready.
	And I would presume that part of the decision that would be made by any alien culture would be to try to judge whether we are ready before they... Wouldn't we do that?
	If we found a planet... What do you think we would do if we found a planet that had man at about or just past the caveman stage?
	Or even a little further along?
	How would we handle that?
	What kind of debate would we have about whether we should or should not disturb their society, their civilization, whether we should help them, give them some of our technology, make them slaves?
	Oh, there'd be a great debate.
	Or just leave them alone, let them develop.
	I don't know.
	There would be a great, great debate.
	And so I would expect there would be one among any alien civilization, wouldn't there?
	Before contact.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	You know what I think we'd do if we were cannibals?
	If we were cannibals?
	Yeah.
	You know what we would do, don't you?
	What?
	Well, we'd probably, if we didn't want to frighten them too bad, we'd probably abduct them every now and then.
	Just have a snack every now and then.
	Yeah.
	You really have an interesting program.
	It really is thought-provoking.
	It's kind of hard to get through to, though.
	Well, where are you?
	I talked to you before, Malacca, north of Princeton, Minnesota, central Minnesota.
	Oh, yes.
	Have you ever been in that area?
	That's one area I have actually never been in.
	Okay, it's a beautiful, beautiful area.
	I've been all around the United States.
	I've been to Hawaii, and I keep coming back.
	It's gorgeous.
	It's still kind of cold up there now, isn't it?
	Yeah, it's about 10 degrees colder than normal, and it's been a cold winter all over.
	What's your temperature out there right now?
	I haven't heard for a while, but I suppose maybe 25.
	Maybe a little lower, but 25.
	Long winters, yes.
	Yeah, it gets really cold here, but what about global warming?
	Well, what about it?
	I mean, it's been a very long, hard winter.
	That's what I'm saying.
	So it's pretty hard to talk about global warming right now.
	Well, that's what I'm saying.
	It doesn't make sense.
	Well, maybe it's a new ice age.
	Well, that's not really what they're throwing out there.
	I wanted to ask you one more question.
	Have you changed your mind?
	I don't know if you recall talking to me, but have you changed your mind on Iron Mountain or Behold the Pale Horse yet?
	No.
	How long has it been since you've looked at either one of those?
	Oh, it's been a few years.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	It's pretty weird, but a lot of the stuff, like the woman Sunday night, it's all kind of strange.
	You got something, right?
	Something's going on.
	Oh, sure.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Central Minnesota.
	Where there are long, long winters, gotta like snow to live there.
	Art, I've had a strong desire, I have one, to comment on the right to die legislation being debated in our courts now.
	I feel very strongly that assisted suicide should be legalized.
	I've got a personal outlook on the subject.
	My mother died when I was 15.
	Now, that may not seem like that big a deal, but when your father is a quadriplegic from an auto accident, your brother is legally deaf, it kind of stiffens the blow, if you know what I mean.
	It left me at 15 to care for my family.
	If anyone would want to hold on to their loved ones, it would be me.
	The horrendous amount of pain that not only my mother went through, but my family was overwhelming.
	I slowly watched my mother lose her life.
	At the end, she had completely lost her cognitive and memory skills.
	Matter of fact, the cancer had eradicated her memory linearly.
	She forgot who I was, who my brother was, who my dad was.
	And I could go on with this, but I'm not.
	You see the road that he's going down.
	This deserves to be, I think, a great debate in our society.
	And I guess it's time that we had it, and these court decisions are going to rush that.
	Or this, as a physician trained in the field of anesthesiology, I can assure you are, doctors can relieve terminal pain without killing.
	We have drugs a thousand times more potent than morphine that alleviate pain very effectively.
	Naturally, once administered, respiration must be supported.
	And this naturally becomes another issue.
	Who wants to die on a ventilator?
	Well, to the terminal patient who is out of it, it doesn't matter much to them.
	It all boils down to what a hospital or doctor wants to expend in terms of money and time.
	Once you allow doctor-assisted suicide, it becomes a matter of managed care.
	To see to it, to save insurance companies and hospitals money, the doctors will have to provide this service or risk losing hospital privileges.
	If the doctor has steadfast religious or moral reservations about this, and Catholics definitely do, he could have his license pulled, or his right practice, as she sees fit, taken away.
	Why do I say this?
	Because when my chairman told me to administer anesthesia for a therapeutic abortion, and I refused, I came very close to losing my position on the medical staff.
	After all, since, in my opinion, abortions done without medical necessity are taking human life, this is similar to assisted suicide.
	Love the show art, Dr. Joe in Scottsdale.
	So there you are.
	This is an issue, by the way, all over the world.
	In many parts of the world, in Scandinavia, for example, it's been worked out for a long time, and there has been, quietly, even though there it may not be legal, Doctor assisted suicide.
	It looks as though the U.S.
	is going to take this on as a major issue and try and make some sort of decision about
	it and I'm definitely all for that.
	We may line up a debate between a couple of you in the next hour with regard to This assisted suicide business.
	It's now going to go to the Supreme Court, and we're going to make a grand national decision.
	One probably as big and with as much impact as Roe v. Wade.
	Law Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, good morning, Art.
	Good morning to you.
	How are you today?
	Fine.
	This is Andres, American Avatar from KOMO or KBI.
	Yes, sir.
	You know, a couple of things here.
	Did you hear about the child molester in Texas?
	Yes, the one who had requested to be castrated and is now due to be released, yes.
	Yes, and now Bush boldly vows to place a 24-hour watch on the molester and tail him and do whatever it takes, spend more money.
	Why don't they just castrate him?
	He wants it.
	Turn him into a little puppy dog.
	That's what we should do.
	There's not a lot of evidence that castration would, as you put it, turn him into a little puppy dog.
	I'm not sure.
	I thought that changed the testosterone levels, the hormones.
	Yeah, but let us first step back a little bit and see why he's committing these crimes.
	In other words, is it because of a sexual drive or is it a mental aberration?
	It doesn't have a whole lot to do with sexual drive.
	That's a very important question.
	Yeah.
	Well, wouldn't counseling find that out if he went into therapy?
	I really don't have answers to all of this.
	I think that the state of Washington had the answer, and I know it sounds awful, but they gave people like that man indeterminate sentences.
	In other words, they would just keep them in jail, For as long as they thought they were a threat.
	Now, that sounds like a horrible thing, I know.
	If it works, why not try it?
	But when you've got somebody saying, look, you let me out, I'm going to go molest another child, and I believe this man said, and then I'm going to have to kill the child, so I won't tell anybody.
	In other words, I'm going to do it again.
	He's saying right now, in jail, I'm going to do it again.
	But he wants to be castrated.
	Well, I'm not sure.
	Yeah, a lot of people also say he said that just to draw attention to his case.
	Well, I don't know.
	I think, uh, I think, uh, well, wait a minute.
	It works with, uh, with, uh, doesn't it work with animals?
	You have cats, don't you?
	Yes, but we human beings commit crimes, um, for a lot of different reasons.
	Witness the mother who strapped her children in the back of the seat and drove the car into the lake.
	Uh, you know, we have a lot of different motivations.
	Intelligence seems to Add to the pile of reasons why we kill.
	And that little kitty that saved her little kittens one by one in the flames.
	I know.
	She did that and then people throw their children out the window.
	I know.
	Thank you very much.
	We'll see.
	You just made my point.
	And so I'm not certain.
	I've always wondered about this.
	Whether castration really would affect the behavior of somebody like that.
	I don't even know that that's true.
	It might.
	If the drive were purely sexual, then it might.
	But I have this feeling that there is mental derangement that might make that crime completely eclipse what condition the plumbing happens to be in, if you follow me.
	I'm not sure about that, but rape generally is not thought of many times as a sexual crime.
	I mean, old women are raped.
	Not sexually attractive women, just old women.
	Why do that?
	It's a power trip, that's why.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Hey Art, it's Scott.
	Hi Scott.
	I'm calling from Houston.
	Yes sir.
	I was just called in about that rapist guy.
	Yes.
	That child molester?
	Yes.
	He had said, I found out on the news late tonight that they had said that they're going to, they're remanding about just letting him out.
	They said that they're either going to go ahead and castrate him, Or are they going to send him off to a halfway house far away from Houston?
	Well, it's a problem, no matter how you look at it.
	I don't know what they're going to do.
	Somebody just said your governor said he's going to put a 24-hour guard on the guy.
	Is that right?
	I haven't heard too much about that.
	I do know he was saying something about the indeterminants and everything and all that about how long it takes them to keep it in.
	Oh, really?
	I heard him say something.
	I was in class today and my professor was saying something about that they might have to do something like that to change the books about this case.
	Even if they do deny him parole or whatever it is, that his time is pretty much almost up anyway.
	Well, I heard earlier in the day they were reviewing his supposed good time to see if he really was eligible for parole.
	Yeah.
	But if you've got somebody who's saying he will go out and molest another child and kill that child, then the state of Texas, hard as it is, has an obligation.
	Because if it does nothing, it is then liable, I believe.
	If something happens to a child, which inevitably it will.
	Thank you very much.
	That's what I heard.
	There would be a liability actually incurred by the state of Texas.
	So it's not easy for Texas.
	I don't envy them this.
	Ah, modern America.
	Strange place, huh, folks?
	Strange time to be alive?
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2, 1996.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	The concert was held on April 2, 1996 at the San Francisco International Music Center.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	It absolutely is, and again, the only number not given there is our brand new international number.
	From anywhere in the world, anywhere in the world, you can dial your AT&T USA direct access number Then, our international line, which is 800-893-0903.
	And for you, it will be toll-free.
	We pay from anywhere in the world.
	Ha ha!
	It is the first truly international toll-free line ever in existence.
	And we've got it.
	So there you've got it.
	That's how to do it.
	Call the AT&T USA direct access number then 800-893-0903.
	Talking about many things.
	Assisted suicide because of the decision in New York and the Supreme Court case on the way.
	We're going to finally decide in this country.
	It's going to be a decision that will rival Roe v. Wade.
	The beating in Riverside County, California.
	That all of you should have seen no less than 10 times, if you're a news watcher by now, your feelings about that.
	Somebody just sent me a top 10 excuses that police types will give to justify the beating in L.A.
	10.
	We're only human.
	We make mistakes.
	2.
	9.
	We put our lives on the line every day.
	It's only natural if we get out of line once in a while.
	8.
	The officer was in fear of his safety from the fleeing felon. 7.
	Well, they put a lot of innocent people at risk.
	The police were just reacting to the way they were treated.
	Six.
	In light of what could have happened, they were lucky they weren't hurt worse.
	Five.
	The illegals were in full control of the situation.
	They brought those blows on themselves.
	Four.
	In my X number of years as a law enforcement officer, I've never seen a police officer act like that in any way whatsoever.
	It just doesn't happen.
	Three.
	I saw the tape.
	What it doesn't show is the felon reaching for what could have been a gun.
	Two.
	Everything the officers did was within department policy for justifiable use of force.
	And, number one, if you ain't a cop, you ain't got no right to bitch.
	You're not the one out there, day after day, dealing with the scum and slime on the streets, so you can sleep safe at night.
	You ought to thank us.
	The ten things that will be said, and that's not too far, Off the mark in a lot of cases.
	Or this.
	Art, the illegal alien beating by Riverside deputies bothers me greatly for several reasons.
	I'm a retired Border Patrol supervisor, 32 years on the job, who was in charge of several large Southern California stations between 1976 and 1990 when I retired.
	I was in charge of Indio, Calexico, El Centro, and then Campo.
	The Campo area is now the center of the alien and drug traffic.
	Campo was a five man station when I joined in 58, scheduled to be a 360 agent station by the end of the year.
	Shows you what's happening around here.
	There are twice as many officers in the San Diego sector as there were in the entire U.S.
	Border Patrol force nationwide when I joined.
	Wow!
	Well, I say again, For the third and maybe last time tonight, as far as I'm concerned, what we should do is put up a wall.
	There's no magic about that.
	I've been saying that for years.
	A wall.
	And whatever electronic equipment we need to detect movement on our border.
	I'm not saying we should not let legal immigrants in.
	A, we should know who comes and goes, and B, we should know what they're bringing with them.
	No little backpacks of cocaine and so forth and so on.
	We have a right to do that.
	It's our border.
	We've technologically been able to do it since I was in Vietnam.
	I'm well aware of what we were able to sense there, and that was all those years ago.
	Imagine what we can do today.
	I'm not a subscriber to the U.S.
	being some sort of safety valve for Mexico.
	No thank you.
	And even if you did subscribe to that, you still would have to say that we've got a right A duty to know who comes and goes across our borders.
	It's that simple.
	And if there's a big problem with people entering illegally, then we have every right to secure our borders.
	I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer.
	What has bothered me over the years is that our elected officials seem to have no inclination to want to do anything about it.
	Alright, back to the phones in a moment.
	Freeman, situation in Montana still going on?
	Put up signs telling the press to please, they did use that word, stay away about a half mile.
	News today about the firepower.
	The inevitable .50 caliber machine gun is supposed to be there, plus an explosives expert, and I guess they are very well armed and they're prepared to shoot it out.
	So, that continues.
	Maybe more people in there than we originally thought.
	25?
	who knows then we've got
	30?
	the new york thing A decision by the Federal Appeals Court in New York about assisted suicide.
	That one is going to the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	And America is going to have a great debate about this.
	Hey Art, did you hear about the Anchorage DJ?
	who started April Fool's Day rumors that the Atlanta Space Shuttle had been rerouted from its original destination and was scheduled to land at Elmendorf Air Force Base here in Anchorage.
	Well, anyway, about 200 fools gathered at the International Airport to try to watch the shuttle land.
	Boy, were they angry.
	matt listening to kate you know i i just found out that the judge he says p s
	that perform the marriage ceremony for me and my wife got recommended for a
	higher judgeship by bill clinton Does this mean my marriage is invalid?
	I would say, no, it doesn't, and such an impertinent question is likely to get you into big trouble, so I hope your wife wasn't listening.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Hello, yes, I was just calling to see what you thought about that.
	Art exhibit in Arizona.
	I believe it's Arizona.
	Yeah, it's Arizona.
	Flag in the toilet.
	Yes.
	Flag on the ground so you can walk on it.
	Log in.
	What do I think about it?
	I think it sucks.
	So do I. I mean, what else do you say?
	And I think that it might have been a little different in, I guess, it was last year when that amendment was going where it was making it unconstitutional or The amendment was going to be passed to make it against the law to desecrate the flag.
	Yeah, and I wish that would have passed.
	Well, I appreciate your call.
	It's down in Arizona.
	And that's something else we can talk about, as if we didn't already have enough.
	But yeah, I saw it.
	Sucks.
	You know, they've got... They call it art.
	They call it art.
	And the American flag is in a toilet.
	And it's supposed to represent the protest years with regard to Vietnam.
	But I'm sorry I saw it.
	I'm sorry I saw it.
	Now, I don't know about... I don't really necessarily support a constitutional amendment against flag desecration because... You know, to me, My protest is to just stay away.
	I wouldn't go to see that.
	I'm sorry I saw it on my television.
	And it just causes my blood pressure to rise and I get really angry.
	But I've thought about it.
	You know, a constitutional amendment?
	Nah.
	These are fools.
	Just absolute fools.
	Anybody would do that.
	It's just disgusting.
	So, you want to know what I think about it?
	That's what I think about it.
	It's really disgusting.
	And it raises your blood pressure, and I guess that's exactly what it's designed to do.
	So my way to protest it is I wouldn't go in there, they couldn't pay me to go in there.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	I just had a comment to make about aliens coming to Earth.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I just thought Christianity needs to be shook up a little.
	It does, huh?
	I think so.
	So you think it would be healthy for it?
	I'm just tired of getting the Bible shoved down my throat.
	Well, I guess I feel a little that way myself.
	I'm kind of private about it.
	I talk about it if somebody asks me about it, but then everybody... I guess it's a natural instinct for people who are believers and have great faith to want to convert and explain so others might understand and be saved, but it's a little...
	A tiresome for the person being preached to all the time.
	Oh, don't I know it.
	I get preached to every night.
	I'm getting really sick of it.
	Well, I tried to tell Leonard politely a little earlier that despite his best efforts, it would have to be, if it's going to be, my own personal light bulb that goes off, and he's not the guy with his hand on the switch no matter what he says.
	Yeah.
	He's well intended, but it does, it makes you crazy.
	I have my own personal religion.
	It has nothing to do with anybody else's, and I kind of like it that way.
	Well, that's fine.
	Yeah.
	I wouldn't argue with you, and if they had your phone number, you'd be sorry.
	That's exactly right, but I don't have a label for my religion.
	It's just fine.
	That's fine.
	But on the euthanasia thing, I think it ought to be legalized, too.
	I think it's going to be.
	Uh, but it's going to be over the great, loud objections of the Catholic Church.
	Well, it may be brought down a notch or two as far as I'm concerned.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much for the call.
	We may do a debate on that subject.
	It's a good subject to debate.
	It's time we did it.
	Um, Art, love the show.
	Why are you upside down on your web page?
	How odd?
	Well, My webpage people turned me upside down as our little April Fool's joke, and I had about a million messages yesterday about that, so that's the name of that tune.
	Presumably I'm right side up again today, unless I forgot.
	Speaking of internet humor, here's some material for the show.
	These are the best and worst of country song titles.
	Note, All of them are real.
	Do you love as good as you look?
	Or how about this one?
	drop kick me jesus through the goalposts of life uh... pop-up
	uh... is pop-up
	uh... if there really is so long by that name
	the next time.
	Dropkick me Jesus through the goalposts of life.
	Oh, get your tongue out of my mouth, cause I'm kissing you goodbye.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art, how's it going?
	Okay.
	Good deal.
	Say, uh, talking about these, uh, legal aliens, kind of, uh, brought something back to mind, which was, uh, excuse me, the, uh, guest you had on Dreamland Sunday?
	Yes.
	Well, I think it was a very good program.
	Happy, happy, joy, joy.
	She was very much enjoying her experience.
	Yeah, yeah.
	She's a very articulate person.
	It was very interesting.
	There was more reaction to that on both sides.
	And of course, I get a lot of follow-up after any guest on Dreamland, or even here.
	But on Dreamland, it's very intense.
	And I noticed that it was broken in half, the reaction.
	Half the people, like you, absolutely loved her, and the other half thought she was a total fruitcake.
	Well, yeah, that's one part of me.
	I thought she was very articulate and very interesting.
	The only thing I wanted to mention, there's just some things.
	to her beliefs and what she was saying that just kind of really shocked me and knocked
	me off my seat.
	I was thinking about the quickening and I feel that this quickening starts to quicken
	ever more so quickly.
	I really believe there are going to be literally hundreds of thousands of people like Mr. and
	Mrs. Gilberts that came out sharing those beliefs which I believe she was sharing with
	you pretty much stuck to a new age type of philosophy with the guise of extraterrestrials.
	And I think, hey, you know, when things start really getting out of hand all over the world,
	you know, with the quickening and to global proportions, hey, you know, I think we're
	going to need a way out, you know?
	All right.
	Well, I don't know that it is extraterrestrials, though.
	Thanks very much for the call, sir.
	Look, Joy Dreamland is a show intended to push the envelope in every direction.
	And that is what it will continue to do, and it has guests on there.
	Sometimes you're going to love them.
	Sometimes you're going to hate them.
	Sometimes you're going to think they're crazy.
	Sometimes you're going to think all kinds of things.
	It is a show very much like this one, only even more so designed To push the envelope, and that's exactly what we do.
	We push the envelope in all kinds of areas, and we will continue to do that.
	So I know it's just right when I get a hundred or two hundred responses, just general comments on a show, and people either intensely loved it or intensely hated it.
	That means that we're pushing just the right buttons out there and doing exactly what we want to do.
	That show, this one too, will continue to be all over the map.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes, Mr. Bell.
	You really hate, I don't know about you, but to kill, Mr. Bell, is to kill one made like God.
	And man is in God's image.
	And there's only one God, no other, than Jesus Christ.
	None.
	Okay.
	And your UFOs, Mr. Bell, They're just, uh, that's the devil.
	Uh, the devil's child is science.
	And UFOs are demons or angels' work.
	And the devil, Mr. Bell, has made technology that the Earth, uh, could, your mind could never behold.
	Do you believe, let me get this straight, stop, stop for a second, sir.
	You believe the devil, um, is responsible for technology, is that correct?
	Yes, it is.
	It's created for, it's, uh, The child of science.
	May I understand from you, may I understand from you where that began?
	In other words, technology began with fire, or the wheel, or, in other words, where did the devil begin to enter the picture when man first discovered fire or the wheel?
	Was that the devil's work?
	Well, it's all a lie, Mr. Bell.
	No, no, no, come on, I'm asking you, I am asking you a legitimate question.
	Now stop!
	Stop!
	You want to have a conversation?
	Or do you want me to leave the line?
	No, I said it began with the man.
	Man coming from monkeys.
	Man coming from monkeys.
	Yeah, that's your science, isn't it?
	That's not my science.
	It is science.
	Well, like I said, it's the devil's child.
	All technology.
	Yes, all of it.
	Some of it can be used for good, but when you're talking about UFOs, you're not talking about... We're not just talking about UFOs.
	The statement you made was technology is from the devil.
	Yes, science is.
	Science is.
	So... Well, we have nuclear weapons.
	We have all sorts of science things that will finish this, sir.
	What about cars?
	What about automobiles, sir?
	Are they from the devil?
	Is that a close call or is it the devil's work?
	I think it all is.
	It all is, alright.
	Alright, I appreciate your call.
	Thank you.
	Now that seems to me that would represent probably the Unabomber's position.
	Wouldn't it?
	All technology is from the devil.
	All of it.
	And if there are any ships up there, they're from the devil.
	And this caller was sent from heaven.
	Because he absolutely proves what I've been telling you about the reaction to anything new, anything that he wouldn't understand, is either magic, which is of the devil, or all technology, beginning with the wheel forward, is the devil's work.
	Now, think about it.
	What do you think that man would do if they ever showed up?
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art Bell?
	That's me.
	This is Laura from Denver.
	Well, hi.
	I wanted to speak about the assisted suicide thing.
	Yes.
	I'm the mother of six, grandmother of 12, great-grandmother of four.
	Wow.
	And revere life.
	I never wanted to be anything but a mother.
	And I've had a real struggle with the abortion thing, because although I don't believe in abortion, personally, I have been involved with it a couple of times, and I vowed that I would not be involved again.
	All right.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	We're at a break point, and I will keep you on hold if you wish to be through the break.
	All right?
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Well, mother of many and grandmother to even more.
	Back after the break.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2, 1996.
	Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
	The Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
	Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
	Tonight we're gonna make it happen you
	Tonight we'll put all other things aside.
	Given this time... Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired April 2nd, 1996.
	Morning, everybody!
	I want to love you, feel you, wrap myself around you.
	I want to squeeze you, squeeze you I just can't get enough, can it?
	You're real strong, I'll let it go I love this
	I'm so tired, and I'm just pissed I wanna get stuff going sometime, I'll tell ya
	I'm about to lose control and I think Get a set of headphones and just let a little of this go.
	It'll absolutely give you a different outlook on life.
	Got a couple of more titles for you.
	Heard Cheatin' Heart made a drunken fool out of me.
	Or How can I miss you if you won't go away?
	I don't know whether to come home or go crazy.
	And then this winter, don't want your body if your heart's not in it.
	All supposed to be country music titles.
	Alright everybody, one more item.
	Remember, our international line is open.
	They may be tinkering with it.
	And so we may not have it all the time, I don't know.
	Uh, it's being worked on?
	It's pretty much together, but there are blocks up, and we're trying to find out where it works and where it doesn't.
	Um, here's the way you do it.
	If you're in another country somewhere far away, and hearing us on commercial radio, or, uh, the internet, or wherever you're hearing us, it doesn't matter.
	You can call us by calling the USA Direct Access Number.
	Get it from your operator, she'll give it to you, or maybe even have to call your operator, it doesn't matter.
	It's a free call.
	Free, internationally, from anywhere in the world.
	Dial that USA Direct Access number by AT&T and then call 800-893-0903.
	Let me give it again.
	800-893-0903.
	And you're back on the air again.
	Hi.
	Oh, hi.
	0903. Let me give it again. 800-893-0903. And you're back on the air again. Hi.
	Oh, hi. I would just want to make a few points. I feel that I'm deeply religious,
	have a lot of moral values, but I also agree with your last caller, that Christians,
	quote, unquote, tend to try to force their beliefs on other people and force is just as immoral.
	Well, they feel compelled to do it.
	By persuasion, but not force.
	Persuasion is fine.
	You know, we all should feel obligated to do that.
	I don't think there's too much difference between the abortion issue and the assisted suicide.
	There is, though.
	There is.
	I mean, let's examine that a little bit, because it is important.
	An abortion involves the ending of a life, if you believe it is a life, without choice.
	The assisted suicide question involves the informed decision of a person with a terminal illness to end their own life, not that of another.
	So there really is a difference.
	Yeah.
	The thing that really shocked me a few years ago on public television, I watched a panel of doctors discuss, you know, the Hippocratic Oath and not being able to allow people to die.
	And then there were some nurses who came on and said, you know that there are lots of children who are born that really cannot live.
	Cannot accept nourishment for one thing.
	Yes.
	And the doctors by the Hippocratic Oath cannot terminate this child's life.
	They put those babies in the back of the nursery and let them slowly starve to death.
	Which we would not do that to our animals.
	Do you know what I'm saying?
	It was such a shock to me to think that their hands were tied.
	They could not medicate these children or nourish them or anything.
	They just... Alright, well this... I appreciate your comment.
	Look, this exact And several of the other calls that I've received tonight, I think pretty much vindicate my feeling that it's time to have a national debate and make a national decision about this.
	In other words, if it's going to be done, there have got to be certain guidelines or the slippery slope is going to be sled upon.
	And we're going to go sliding right down.
	So we have to decide As a nation, as a civilized country, whether or not we want to do this, and if so, under what conditions?
	Otherwise, you know, we're just going to have this mishmash of everything from Kevorkian to private stuff to outrageous stuff to the guy who didn't want to die, whose doctors told him that they would not resuscitate him or he overheard that, that kind of thing.
	Unless there are guidelines, unless it is discussed openly, and I've vacillated about this because it's been done privately for years, but I guess it's getting to the point where there have to be some guidelines, and the only thing that's going to bring that on is a national debate on the issue, and probably a decision by the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	Not easy issues.
	Huh.
	Not easy at all.
	Look, I would very much like to do a debate on this subject, so let's have one.
	Here's how we do it.
	I would like somebody to call me right now.
	I'm going to give out some numbers, and I'm going to screen the calls.
	And I want somebody who favors the right to die, truly favors the right to die, physician-assisted suicide, to call me at area code 702 727-1222.
	If you radically favor, you may even belong to the Hemlock Society or wish you did, really favor the right to die and would argue that, Area Code 702-727-1222.
	On all of the other lines, I want somebody who radically will argue the other way, doesn't believe in the right to die, Thinks the whole thing is a slippery slope, part of the quickening, end of civilization, will lead to ovens where old people go, and that kind of thing.
	If that's what you believe, then call me on any other line.
	You know the other numbers.
	and we'll do a debate here just a few moments
	okay i have not yet found my uh... person who wants to argue uh... who
	up poses the right to die and that's what i'm looking for so i'll just
	continue continue to do that right now We've got somebody who favors it on the line.
	Hello there, do you oppose the right to die?
	Oh, wait a minute.
	Wrong pot.
	There we go.
	Do you oppose the right to die?
	There.
	Now maybe you're on the air.
	Are you there?
	Yeah.
	Do you oppose the right to die, sir?
	Yes, I do.
	You do.
	No one gave life and no one can take it.
	Uh, good enough.
	All right.
	What is your first name?
	Uh, Dave.
	Dave.
	All right, Dave.
	Where are you?
	I'm in, uh, west of Portland, Oregon.
	West of Portland, Oregon.
	All right.
	Uh, let's go to our first-time caller line.
	And here's somebody who favors a right to die.
	What is your first name, please?
	John.
	John?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	It's Dave and John.
	John, where are you?
	Uh, Klamath Falls, Oregon.
	Klamath Falls.
	All right.
	Two Oregon calls.
	Ha ha!
	Uh, the right to die is the question, gentlemen.
	Go ahead.
	Okay, I believe that no one gave life, and according to my religious beliefs, I believe it's wrong to take life.
	And anyone that does is committing murder.
	Well, I respect your belief.
	And I also respect that it is your religious belief, and it is entirely your right to have that belief and to live your life accordingly.
	However, I am a citizen of the United States, which Constitution assures me That no person's religious belief shall interfere with my rights and that the religious beliefs of any group, whether it be a minority or a majority, should not dictate the law of this land.
	Well, if everybody was like Dr. Gaborkin and could just make decisions on putting somebody out of their misery and terminating them alive, Everybody would be up on murder charges and everybody else would too.
	There's no basis for taking your own life or taking someone else's life under any circumstances as far as I'm concerned.
	And anyone who does that, according to what the Bible says to me, that's committing murder.
	Again, you're quoting the Bible and you're citing as your authority and your source for your belief the Bible.
	It was not the intention of the founders of this country.
	To anchor the Constitution of this country upon any religion, whether it be Bible-based or any other basis.
	That's why I contest that, because our country was founded on the Gospel and God.
	Clear back to Thomas Jefferson, who quoted the Bible many times.
	that's where constitution was founded on and then people still lay their hand on the bible when they
	go into the courtroom to uh...
	for the people on the bible that they'll tell the whole truth and nothing
	but the truth everywhere you can see god in this country
	and uh... i think it's just it's silly for people go around because they're
	you think it's okay to take your life or
	agent taken from a lot of life uh... i don't know they could have a conscious
	to rest at night time to to think about uh... the life they've taken
	or be a participant in a such matter like that well i'm i'm not aware that doctor kuborkin specifically
	has actually taken anyone's life
	He may have assisted that only upon request of a person in a witnessed situation.
	Well, let's not be silly.
	Let's face the facts.
	I don't think my statement is silly.
	I think my statement reflects facts, and I think if you will look at the record of trials that have been forced upon Dr. Kevorkian, every jury That has sat in judgment upon this man, has agreed with me.
	These are a case of twelve men and women, American citizens, who have looked at the facts, been presented all the information that the prosecutor could present, and the defense has in every case so far One, mainly because the mind of the people who have been asked to sit in judgment on this man has been that it is an individual's conscience and an individual's understanding of his or her own relationship with the God of their understanding and not with the God of your Bible, sir.
	Well, you made a misstatement.
	You said that Keforkian didn't aid in the death of it.
	He set up the medicine.
	No, you said earlier that he killed them.
	Well, sure he did.
	He put that needle into their arm and turned that medicine on into their body.
	He's killing them.
	When he put that exhaust hook up from the car, a mask over their face, and turned that car on and says, go ahead and relax now.
	Everything's going to be better in a few minutes.
	He's killing those people.
	There's no other way around it.
	He aided in doing those.
	Put the mask on their face.
	He did that for them.
	Turned the gas on.
	I see.
	You're sitting in judgment on him as one individual.
	But no jury has agreed with you as yet.
	Well, the facts are the facts.
	And I'm sure there's people that will agree.
	Well, I'm sure the juries have had the facts.
	Have they not?
	Well, there's still cases pending.
	And he will be prosecuted eventually for murder.
	He's being prosecuted for murder every time he turns around.
	We've been found guilty of it.
	And these other cases are pending.
	And he continues to go in this way.
	evading people in their death.
	Well, he's a man who certainly is true to his beliefs.
	Well, when he executes people, he's just as much a murderer as a people sitting on death
	row or in any other situation like that.
	So, I'd say the Kevorkian is nothing more than a murderer.
	Anybody that takes their own life, or aids in someone else's life,
	is nothing but a murderer, and there's no other facts about it.
	That's just a plain fact.
	It was my understanding, sir, that the founder of your religion admonished people not to sit in judgment on others.
	Well, you know, like people say, people don't judge.
	A lot of energetically believing Christians really choose, and it's already been mentioned on this radio show tonight already, choose to spend their lives pointing fingers No, the word says do not commit murder, do not commit adultery, so on and so forth, the Ten Commandments, you know, and it says do not murder.
	And what does murder mean to you?
	Does that mean under certain circumstances it's okay to kill somebody but according to what you think your philosophy is on it or how do you feel?
	You either take it for what it says or you disregard it altogether.
	My conscience tells me not to murder and I expect never that I should murder.
	Okay, well then how can you sit there and condone what's going on with aiding someone that's dying?
	Basically, sir, I don't see it as being any of my business.
	Well, I do because... I know you do.
	And you should too because... And you have a lot of Christian friends who stand beside you with that, but I do not.
	I do not relish the idea of living in a nation that is ruled by the opinions of a bunch of religious zealots.
	Well, let's get away from the religious fact of it.
	Murder is murder.
	In this country, if you murder somebody, there's people sitting on death rows who have murdered people who are going to be executed.
	Yet this individual can go around and say, yeah, I'll help you.
	You want to die?
	Let's get the gas going here from the car.
	Let's go ahead and get some medicine injected into you.
	I'll set it up.
	I'll purchase it.
	I'll make the machine.
	Well, I'm sure you're quite satisfied with the veracity of that last statement.
	I just don't exactly happen to agree with it.
	around it. He executes and kills these people and he aids and abets it and anybody else
	that does such things are just as guilty as he is and there's no other way around it.
	Murder is murder.
	Well, I'm sure you're quite satisfied with the veracity of that last statement. I just
	don't exactly happen to agree with it.
	Well, you might not agree with it, but then you're disagreeing with the laws and the Constitution
	of our United States.
	Well, that hasn't been the wisdom of any jury that's set in judgment on Kevorkian yet.
	As I said earlier, there's cases pending.
	And if you also look to a little broader field, you'll notice that the assisted suicide law of the state of New York was struck down today by the second U.S.
	Court of Appeals.
	But you see, there are other cases pending.
	If you want to know, sir, what the law of the land is, ask a court.
	Because it is only the court that decides what the law of the land is.
	No court has yet upheld an anti-assisted suicide piece of legislation.
	They're being struck down at every opportunity.
	Two weeks ago in the state of Washington, just today in the state of New York, it also applies to Connecticut, and I believe another state back there, Rhode Island.
	And you will find these laws falling by the wayside.
	One by one, as every court that views the law of the land looks at them, decides upon them, and throws them out the window.
	them there are family members who are not and pros about the window could
	work and help murder that are very upset about this trip are pursuing this in a
	in a very you know aggressive way and i i don't think that many
	members of any person who whom
	jack of organ has assisted been a part of any prosecution or witnessed against him
	They've all been witnesses in his behalf.
	That hasn't been the case in some of the latest cases that the family members were upset that they went ahead and he assisted in death of their family member.
	And this is not going to be able to continue in our country with people at a free will setting up execution chambers to execute people.
	And some of the people that he assisted weren't even close to death and that he assisted in their death.
	And that's not right.
	Murder is murder.
	And if he's doing those kind of things, he's supposed to be a doctor.
	But doctors take an oath, in case you don't know it, to help us save and preserve life.
	He's doing totally the opposite.
	He's like Dr. Jekyll and Hyde.
	He's two different people in one, from what he represents himself to be.
	And doctors are never supposed to take life.
	They're supposed to assist in preserving and saving life.
	And you know that as well as I do.
	No, I don't.
	I don't know that as well as you do.
	Well, you should know that.
	Doctors don't take oaths.
	What do you think?
	They work in emergency rooms and save lives.
	Doctors all over this nation and all over the world have, from today back into time immemorial, assisted the grievous and terminally ill person to leave this life.
	No, they have never assisted in murder.
	They have been doing it forever, and it is only recently that you Christian zealots have become on this bandwagon.
	To start shaking their fingers at people choosing the time and manner of their own dying, which I think is entirely their prerogative.
	You have, in your judgmental and, let me say, somewhat limited range of vision, decided to start pointing and wagging fingers and sitting in judgment upon others.
	And I think you lie in violation of one of the prime One of the prime instructions given to you by the founder of your faith, Jesus the Christ... As I mentioned, let's get away from the religious aspect of it.
	Let's go to the Constitution.
	The Constitution and the laws of the land say murder is murder.
	In any state in the Union you want to go to, murder is murder if you exist in it.
	Murder is defining murder.
	Murder is taking someone else's life and putting it in such a state.
	Nobody has ever accused Jack Kevorkian In any legal court of law in this land of having committed murder.
	He has been accused in every case of committing murder.
	not a part of it if you know you are not going to want to bet whatever it
	was well i i don't know i'm not sure whether he has been point of fact
	he has been accused of murder What he meant to say is he has not been convicted of murder.
	That's right.
	No, Art, he has been accused of violating the Michigan statute against assisted suicide.
	He's been accused of murder.
	He's been accused of murder.
	Oh, no, I believe he has been accused of murder.
	He has not been convicted of murder.
	Okay.
	All right, listen, gentlemen, we're going to have to break it off there anyway.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you both.
	Two people from Oregon.
	And that represents a pretty good cross-section, really, of opinion and the way people are looking at this right now.
	So there you go.
	Not because of a federal appeals court decision in New York.
	It's moving that way.
	Now, it's going to move to the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	That decision will be no less important, in my opinion, than Roe v. Wade.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	She's coming in 1235.
	The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide her toward salvation.
	I stopped to know them along the way Hoping to find some old forgotten words
	Or ancient melodies He turned to me
	Art Bell, 1934 You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	Alright, well, I just noticed I'm not getting a dial tone on my international line, so there may be a slight glitch.
	Listen, we want you to give it a try, though.
	Keep trying to get through.
	If you're anywhere outside the country, this is, you know, still in the testing and development stage, but we are trying to get this international line going and uh... it's butters and goes and uh... i think adjustments are being made to it but if you're anywhere outside the country listening on the internet or any of our stations that reach far far away we have a toll-free line for you completely toll-free locked out of the u s canada and mexico so if you're way out there someplace call us toll-free
	I'm not so thrilled about this fax that I just got, and I want you to hear it.
	Because it points out what's going on now in this country, and it's not good.
	Art, since I was in kindergarten, it was jammed into my head that hating people because of the color of their skin or religion was wrong.
	It seems that people of color are not being taught the same way.
	The obvious lopsidedness of this issue is causing more and more anger in the white race, and all this anti-racist teaching is going to be for nothing.
	I worry, Art, my feelings toward other races have been changing over the past few years for the worse.
	I'm not alone.
	This is not good for America.
	The left is creating what they claim to be fighting against, God help us, an angry white Republican in Napa Valley.
	Well, of course, he's right.
	Sadly, he's right.
	And I don't know what we do about it.
	I'll tell you something.
	The anti-immigrant, anti-color sentiment is growing worldwide.
	It's not just in America.
	It's everywhere.
	It's literally everywhere.
	Worldwide.
	In Germany, It always has been, in Japan, in other countries around the world, anti-immigrant sentiment is growing, not lessening.
	It's a problem everywhere, and it's producing nationalistic cliques of race haters, and it's just growing and growing, and I don't know why.
	You would think, you would think, wouldn't you, that in modern America, or even in the modern world, That the trend would be going the other way.
	But it's not.
	It's absolutely not.
	It's getting worse.
	Anybody have any ideas on that?
	Shouldn't we all be getting consciousness, raising feelings, and shouldn't these feelings of prejudice be lessening, not increasing?
	But they're increasing.
	Why is it getting worse?
	Why in the modern world, with more communication, more understanding, is it getting worse?
	Anybody have any thoughts on that?
	It's a whale of a good question.
	Really is a good question.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	Hello.
	You know, I've never called a radio program before.
	I'm just an ordinary guy.
	I don't belong to anything.
	I'm just a grandfather.
	I try to make ends meet and play with my grandkids when I can and all that.
	I've been listening to you for a long time.
	I work at night, so I've been listening to you for a year or so.
	I hear you constantly giving us all your opinions about a lot of things.
	Most of the time, sir, especially when it comes to the laws of this land, you're off the wall and out to lunch.
	You really are.
	I wish that you would take the advice, sir, of our founding... Give me an example.
	Well, you have a lot of opinions about our laws and our history.
	Every time somebody calls you, who is obviously knowledgeable about our laws, You cut him off.
	I'm not cutting you off.
	So I'm not cutting you off.
	Sir, sir, sir, sir.
	I'm not cutting you off.
	I'm asking you to give me an example that we can discuss.
	Can you do that?
	Well, I could give you a thousand of them.
	I'm only asking for what I'm asking you to do.
	I'm only asking for one example.
	Now, now, wait a minute now.
	Now, wait a minute now, sir.
	It's got to be a discussion and you're not holding up your end of it.
	I'm willing to have a discussion with you.
	Give me an example of where I'm off the wall.
	Go ahead.
	Well, I'll give you one.
	Okay.
	It's the first one I can think of.
	Okay.
	There are so many, you know, it's hard to keep track of them.
	I understand.
	It's hard for you.
	I wish you would give people time to... I'm giving you time right now, sir.
	I'm giving you time now.
	Alright, sir, you're always telling us that this is a democracy.
	No, I'm not.
	No, sir, I'm not.
	I said it's a republic.
	Oh, no.
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, yes.
	No, sir, we are a representative democracy.
	That is a republic.
	Hello?
	Well, yeah, that's foolishness.
	It is.
	However... It is!
	We're not a representative democracy.
	If you were to take our founding fathers' advice, all of them told us that we should, as citizens, as responsible citizens, if we wanted to keep our republic, that we should all become knowledgeable in our law and in our history and never forget it.
	If you were to do that, then you might do a little easier on these guys like in Montana, You mean that I would understand the free men?
	The federal government attacks American citizens.
	Oh, I see.
	You might wonder where they get the jurisdiction to do that.
	Where do they?
	You don't think the FBI has jurisdiction to be in Montana right now?
	Where would they get that from, sir?
	I asked you.
	You think the FBI has no jurisdiction to be in Montana?
	Attacking American citizens?
	Because they claim they wrote a bad check?
	When did they attack the people in Montana?
	Well, I think they're attacking them now.
	They are?
	I didn't hear the news.
	I think they have a couple of them in a federal prison.
	That's what you said.
	Oh, you mean that they've charged them?
	Well, yeah, if you write bad checks, you can be charged.
	That's absolutely correct.
	They threatened the lives of public officials, allegedly.
	They're charged with that.
	They're charged with all kinds of things.
	A conspiracy to kidnap?
	Don't you think that laws like that should be upheld?
	Well, I doubt that any of that's true.
	Oh, you do?
	I really do.
	Well, wouldn't you think that the proper place to make that determination would be a court of law?
	What court?
	What court?
	Yeah, the federal court?
	If necessary, a federal grand jury.
	You see, sir, if you...
	Is the FBI and the ATF and the Army, are they going to investigate and arrest us for every charge in this country now?
	Alright, well I've had enough of that conversation and I'm glad that I was able to finally drag it out from you and see where it is that you stand.
	Look, you can make excuses until the cows come home for these people in Montana if you want to.
	I strongly suspect you're nowhere near Montana.
	If you had bothered to listen, which obviously you haven't, last week you would have heard probably, let me guess, eight, twelve hours, twelve, thirteen hours worth of calls from Montana, from the people in Montana, who are thanking God and the government that the FBI is there.
	That these people have been terrorizing the people of Montana.
	But you don't care about that, do you?
	You don't care about any of it.
	As far as you're concerned, people ought to do whatever they want.
	Make up their own laws, huh?
	Doesn't matter if they violate the ones that we've got, because they're not valid, are they, sir?
	Our laws aren't valid, are they?
	You're another one of these so-called patriots.
	You know, I think it's really screwed up and ruined the word patriot people like this have.
	Well, why don't you understand and understand about common law?
	And understand that they can be completely autonomous.
	That they can be sovereign if they want to make up their own laws.
	Banks write their own checks.
	You know, that's such a load of garbage that I'm glad I was able to keep you on the line Long enough to finally drag out from you what you're really all about.
	And you know what you're all about?
	You're all about the problem we're having.
	Part of the problem.
	You are part of the problem.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Andy calling from Minneapolis, St.
	Paul.
	Hi, Andy.
	How are you?
	Okay.
	You sounded like you got a little worked up over that last call.
	Well, I wanted to get... You know, he was just sort of generally... Why do you cut people off?
	I don't cut people off, and or I cut everybody off depending on how you look at it.
	Why don't you understand the law, he said.
	And then finally we get around to, well if you did, you'd understand that the free men are right.
	Can I give you what I heard in that conversation?
	Sure.
	I heard something that has become extremely common today.
	You asked earlier about why is racism and intolerance increasing when we have a culture where the dissemination of information is exploding.
	At a moment's glance, you might think, well, this should allow us to be more educated and enlightened.
	What I see over and over again, especially with this last caller, is that a lot of people today seem to be extremely committed to their current opinion
	even though they seem to be unable to substantiate them yeah it doesn't matter
	it doesn't matter and uh... they will throw back general arguments like
	well if you understood about our font a founding fathers if you understood about
	our constitution be understood about common law
	If you understood that the 16th Amendment was never ratified, I could really go on with a list.
	If you understood about the Federal Reserve, about our fiat money, I could make you a whole list.
	Then you would understand what the free men are doing.
	Yeah, well it's interesting that you asked him to give one example in which... I know.
	Well, what did you ask him?
	You asked him for one example in which you did not understand, uh, you know, you had a failure to grasp laws.
	Yes.
	He said, well, there's thousands of them.
	It could be one.
	Yeah, that's right.
	You know, and, uh, this seems to be all too common that people seem to be, uh, thoroughly tied up in their, their, uh, not necessarily religious convictions.
	Almost, almost, it's almost a religion.
	And then they've attached the name Patriot to it.
	Now, if the name Patriot was not attached to it, what would you otherwise call it?
	Simple lawlessness.
	Just simple lawlessness.
	But if you attach the name Patriot, then it becomes almost a religious experience for a lot of people.
	Yeah, I think you're in a tough situation there.
	You know, now that you've expanded your calling base to an international basis, I think you're going to get perspective from, who knows, the Muslim community in the Middle East?
	You may get people calling in from Kuwait.
	Who knows where people will call from?
	And gosh knows who will be denouncing you next Wednesday night, or what have you.
	Well, look, if I was a pincushion.
	Anyway, I've got to take off.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	It's fine.
	It's what we're here for.
	Look, the fact that a lot of people are, as this man so obviously was, just devoted to a cause that I believe firmly in my own mind that even he doesn't firmly understand because he couldn't really express it.
	There's no way to justify the complete flaunting of our laws and virtually anarchy.
	There's no way to justify it.
	So, after a while, If they stay on the line long enough for you to draw from them what it is they really mean, then they begin to reveal themselves.
	And they cannot explain themselves, because how can you explain calling for complete lawlessness?
	Or condoning complete lawlessness?
	The only way you can do it is by saying, look, if you were a patriot, damn it, you'd understand all this, and you're obviously not a patriot.
	Well, I'm not going to let that guy or anybody else attach that to me, because I think I do have an understanding, a very good one, of what patriotism is and what it is not.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Is that our bell?
	Yes, it is.
	Hi, this is Geneva, and I'm from Medford, Oregon.
	Hello, Geneva.
	And I have never called a show before.
	Really?
	No, but I've been listening to you for the last couple of weeks, and I think you're really right on.
	Well, that's kind of you.
	Thank you.
	And I just thought you were getting a bum rap tonight.
	Oh, that's okay.
	Look, it's what makes my life.
	If I didn't enjoy doing this, I wouldn't do it, hon.
	I really love it, and when they start getting in my face, I like it even better.
	Well, this is it, you know.
	Well, you know, I just wanted to call about that thing with Dr. Kovorkian.
	Sure.
	I've been raised a Christian, and I still have Christian views.
	I don't go to church actively, but I'm fairly versed in the Bible.
	We don't live in a perfect world, and when we don't live in a perfect world, it's really hard to come to these conclusions.
	We keep people alive.
	When you play God in the beginning, It almost forces us to play God in the end.
	And I think Jack Kevorkian is right on.
	Well, alright.
	I think that his cause is right on.
	I don't think Jack Kevorkian is right on.
	I think that is not the way to do it.
	I think that we must have a conversation with ourselves about the end of life and people's rights and people's individual choice.
	It's not the same argument as the abortion argument.
	The abortion argument involves, for those who oppose abortion, the taking of a life, because they believe it is that, of a human being that is not part of that choice.
	That delineates very clearly, for me, the argument about the end of life.
	Only that individual making the choice.
	There is a easy and very large gap to be seen there in the arguments.
	They are separate arguments, as far as I'm concerned.
	We'll be right back.
	A patriot is one who loves and zealously supports his country.
	That's Webster's definition.
	However, the question then arises, what is his country?
	Is it the government?
	Is it the people?
	Is it family and friends?
	Is it a compound in Montana?
	Apparently, we're becoming a nation of many countries, each with its own patriots.
	It's all very scary, my friend.
	That's Dennis in Kansas City, right on.
	Dennis, very scary.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	I'd like to clarify a word that you used.
	You called him a patriot.
	He's more on the lines of a parrot.
	He just repeats his theory mindlessly.
	Well, I thought it would be worth examining what the word patriot really means before we lose it altogether, because it's being attached willy-nilly now to anybody who hates the government, doesn't want to pay taxes, Or won't move out of a house because they're not paying their mortgage anymore?
	Or writes bad checks?
	Are these patriots?
	I wouldn't think so.
	I would think of more of veterans of 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam, even in the Gulf.
	Fiasco would be more on the lines of two patriots standing for their country and representing what their country means.
	And also the taxpayers that are out here Making ends meet and paying taxes and everything else.
	That's more of a Patriot than a... Some guy that thinks that making your own laws is okay.
	Because it isn't.
	Where are you calling from?
	Actually, right now I'm in Seattle somewhere.
	In Seattle somewhere.
	In your car, I guess, huh?
	Yeah.
	In a truck.
	Alright.
	Well, I appreciate your call.
	And I would add to that... What about the people out there just working every day?
	Are the people with families who go to work, and struggle, and try to be productive, and pay taxes, and want the best for their children, and try to send their children off to a college, try to achieve the American Dream, which I guess is trying to improve things for your children, have a reasonable, safe, reasonably safe anyway, life, Try to participate in your community at a local level.
	I mean, what is a patriot?
	Most people, I think, are patriots.
	Most people are patriots.
	And I think that right now that word is being subverted.
	It's being subverted to mean somebody who is not interested in the present laws of this land, not participating in our civilization, A not adhering to its rules, somebody who has given up on the system and wants to tear it down and wants something else.
	Is that a patriot?
	We'd better stop and think a little bit about what a patriot really is.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2, 1996.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM app.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
	It certainly is.
	Art, the so-called patriots of the Montana standoff, give true patriotism a slap in the face.
	As I understand it, these people have been pulling off a major scam for the last few years.
	Even the Founding Fathers realized that a centralized government was a necessary evil.
	Articles of Confederation bound the states loosely from 1776 until 1789, when the Constitution was ratified, providing for a stronger federal government.
	This was due to the fact that each state levied its own tariffs, coined its own money, and, in general, made its own rules.
	Due to the difficulties of maintaining a cohesive union under this arrangement, the Founding Fathers saw the necessity of strengthening the federal government.
	As added protection against an oppressive tendency by the government, the Bill of Rights was added.
	If only the politicians would follow these rules.
	Without a framework of laws, there is anarchy.
	A situation in which no one benefits except the hooligans and riffraff.
	Thank you.
	Or this, Dear Art, our founders were mostly Christian, but they did not all agree on what the Bible said.
	They don't today either.
	Jefferson even tried his hand at editing the Bible and getting rid of what he thought was not needed for the salvation of man.
	That's from Paul in Honolulu.
	Well, me, I think the Constitution works for everybody, whether or not they worship this God or that god or the god or any god the constitution works for the american people or at least it should that's how i view it and so i don't think that uh... people who are christian or any other faith have any special protection or should under the constitution but rather that everybody uh... who is a citizen of this country uh... enjoys those protections and onerous as it may seem uh... even
	Illegal immigrants, and it's a whole separate subject, but even those people enjoy the protection afforded by the Constitution.
	They do.
	Even though they're not citizens.
	That doesn't give anybody the right to beat them up.
	It doesn't give anybody the right to take their life without due process.
	In other words, they have all of the protections that we do.
	Now, having said that, we should stop and have every right to stop illegal immigration.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, Art.
	Hello.
	Yeah, Art.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art.
	Shall we dance?
	Yeah.
	I tell you, you had a hot show tonight.
	Well, it's just what we do.
	Yeah, I tell you, I'm an RN.
	This is Steven St.
	Louis.
	Yes, sir.
	And I've seen People that are in real bad shape in critical care units just wanting to die and for anybody to think they have the right to refuse that, I think that some of their families should be placed in that situation and they might think twice about it.
	Well, I guess I just look at it as an individual decision and as long as somebody is making it with mental faculties intact, I mean, we don't execute crazy people, and we don't allow crazy people to commit suicide, because they're not making a rational decision.
	As long as a person has their mind working and they're making a rational decision, then I think it's their life.
	And I'm working that side of the coin now, also.
	Right now, I'm a head nurse at a state psychiatric center, and that's true.
	We don't let these people make that kind of decision.
	We don't discharge them out to the street by themselves where they won't be taken care of.
	You're absolutely right.
	Those decisions are usually made by competent people along with their family and physicians.
	I just wanted to call.
	I can't believe I got through finally.
	I've been listening to you for about a year, work nights.
	Your show is pretty good.
	I like it a lot.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	It is whatever it is on any given night.
	I have only one very strong opinion about talk radio, and that is that it should be whatever it is, whatever it happens to be, and that will vary widely from night to night.
	This is not a cookie-cutter formula talk show, as you may have decided if you've been a long-time listener.
	It's just... Call us toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
	I want to make several points.
	Alright.
	Cut me off.
	I can't understand what you're saying.
	Oh, my name is Rafael from Bakersfield.
	From Bakersfield, alright.
	I want to make several points.
	I'm saying first, don't cut me off.
	Well, I'll make that decision.
	Let me hear your points.
	Okay, first of all, the founding fathers, when they created this country, trying to do it, they were running away from religious oppression.
	That's right.
	So this country was founded on the principles of freedom.
	Separation of the state and the church.
	Yes, freedom of religion.
	That means freedom to worship in any way you want or not at all.
	Right.
	So those that say this is a Christian country are wrong.
	It was created with trying to make it no religion whatsoever.
	The correct line is the majority of people in America are Christians.
	That's true.
	Yeah, that's true.
	But the principles of this country are not Christian.
	That's right.
	All right.
	Second point I want to make is about the right to life.
	I don't want nobody to cut my life, no matter what my condition is.
	All right?
	Yeah, but maybe you would like to make the decision yourself.
	At that time, yes.
	Okay.
	I think that it's difficult for anybody to try to make a decision for somebody else.
	So those that are opposing, you know, I think are not putting themselves in the right position.
	Well, alright, thank you.
	Now you're cut off.
	I am not in favor of anybody making a decision about anybody else.
	I don't think you can do that.
	That's part of the way down the slippery slope.
	Unless you have assigned that ahead of time, and you become critical.
	You're the only one.
	It's your life.
	Remember the movie, Whose Life Is It?
	Anyway, it's your life.
	And you don't want sons and daughters making decisions about moms, dads, grandfathers, etc., etc., etc.
	You don't want that.
	I don't want that.
	I don't know of very many people that want that, period.
	But if you're of sound mind, and your mental faculties are still in order, Then you can make your own decision.
	And I am in favor of that.
	A wild card line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art.
	This is Dan in the U District.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing fine.
	I'm really glad to hear you handling these people the way you are.
	To set them straight on this stuff going on.
	It's not setting them straight, Dan.
	Well, it's a good attempt.
	I know.
	Some people want to stay ignorant.
	I know.
	It is, however, revealing, and if they stay on the line long enough to reveal what they're really all about, then, you know, Dan, I don't have to do anything.
	I just have to draw them out, and what they're about is obvious to even a casual observer.
	Yeah, and the same with these people who go off the deep end with the religious stuff.
	Anyway, you're doing good and I hope you don't lose your hard edge.
	I think you're hard but fair and there's nothing wrong with that.
	Did you know that the Roswell Daily Record ran a couple of stories on that metal sample?
	I have both.
	Oh, you do?
	You got them?
	Front page.
	Well, I'm going to send for both Thursday and Sundays.
	I think those were the days.
	Yes, it's a big story, and if anybody wants a photograph of the piece of alleged wreckage picked up and turned into the Roswell Museum, we've got that photograph up on my webpage.
	My webpage is www.artbell.com.
	That's www.artbell.com.
	And there is Something of a story up there, I believe they put it up there, a little voice clip that you can download, of my explaining all about it.
	So, if you're able to download that, do it.
	We don't have the newspaper stories up there or anything, but I think there is a voice clip of me explaining about it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air, hello.
	Yeah, this is Rod from Sioux Valley.
	Okay, welcome to the show.
	You were talking earlier about the illegal immigrants and people that got beat up down by L.A.
	I found out on the news a lot.
	I've lived in Southern California my whole life and I'm like a quarter Hispanic.
	What I've noticed is people that I run into that speak Spanish come to me and they look like Hispanic and they get kind of mad at me.
	Because they try to talk to me in Spanish and I'm like, I don't know, I don't speak Spanish.
	What are you talking about?
	Yes.
	And then when I get around to white people, they think I'm Hispanic and they treat me like, you know, it's like I'm stuck between two worlds.
	Yeah.
	I'm like stuck between Hispanic and American people.
	My wife has exactly the same problem.
	Yeah.
	And it's really weird because it's people, you know, unless you really know them, You run into a total stranger and you get treated like, you know, well, where am I at, you know?
	I know.
	It's kind of weird.
	No, I fully understand.
	My wife has the same problem.
	She's half Filipino.
	Well, part Filipino, part Puerto Rican, part Chinese, and part Hawaiian.
	And so she looks a little bit of this and that and wherever we've been in the Far East.
	In Spanish-speaking countries, people will always approach her and try to speak to her in their native tongue.
	And she speaks only English.
	So it's hard.
	I know.
	It's kind of living in the middle of both worlds.
	And I guess that's just a cross you're going to have to bear because of your appearance.
	And so you've got to figure out a way to bear it.
	It is hard, though, I fully understand.
	We're in the Far East, particularly in Bangkok.
	Everybody thought that she was a Thai and tried to talk to her and it was tough.
	Anyway, we'll be right back.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	Good morning to you.
	This is Diane from ABC.
	Hi, Diane.
	I've got a song for you first.
	I've got tears in my ears from lying on back in bed crying over you.
	You know, you heard me read some of those, Diane.
	I'm curious.
	Have you heard some of those in country music songs?
	Yes.
	So it was a real list?
	Yes.
	They're outrageous.
	They really are.
	You heard the one I just told you?
	Yes.
	I wanted to talk a little bit about what happened out here with the freeway case, if I might please.
	Okay, so you have two sides of the story.
	They went 70 miles, sometimes going 100 miles an hour.
	Right.
	As they were going, they were trying to hit other cars to cause accidents.
	That's correct.
	And two of the people were interviewed already.
	One man had his brand new car for two hours and he got hit in the back in a fender.
	Another woman, they sideswiped her on the left side and knocked her into the right lane.
	And then off to the shoulder.
	If somebody was there, she would have got wiped out.
	Right.
	They were throwing beer bottles, tequila bottles.
	And parts of the truck.
	What they tried to do was take the shell off and throw the whole thing.
	But they couldn't.
	So they tore it up and started throwing parts out on the road.
	And this was going on for 70 miles.
	Right.
	So that is initially what happened here.
	There is, Diane, a syndrome that occurs in a high-speed chase, particularly one as violent and dangerous as this one.
	And that is that it's almost like shooting at a cop.
	I mean, they in effect were risking those lives, and there was a million terrible things that happened, and a million reasons for the cops to be highly ticked off.
	At the driver and at the other person in that vehicle.
	There were lots of good reasons, but not in the end, Diane, good enough to justify a beating when you had submission otherwise.
	Another thing is, the woman that was in the truck they think now was involved with the smuggling.
	And they showed a picture on Channel 2, or I should say last night, That showed her right after she was arrested and standing there with the other people, and she was in perfect shape.
	I mean, she was probably bruised, but she looked like there was nothing wrong with her.
	And then today, when she was interviewed, she was crying and spooked over and speaking of all kinds of problems.
	Oh, I know.
	That was probably after she got to talk to her lawyer.
	That's right.
	And now the Mexican government is demanding that this is going to be heard by an international court.
	Well, they can demand whatever they want.
	Well, things are pretty rough out here, I think.
	I know.
	Just one little thing might set it off.
	I know.
	With three million of them here now, the people are kind of getting outraged at the whole thing.
	Well, look, whether... Yes, okay, Diane.
	I'm sure that's true, and with some reason, Diane, because having said all of the things you said, and you're right, and I even understand it.
	Intellectually, I understand how Unbelievably angry those policemen were.
	But whether it's Rodney King, or a white guy, or brown guys, or any colored guys, there really is not justification to beat people up.
	Period.
	Now, a baton may be used to achieve submission.
	It cannot be used to dispense street justice.
	It's just as simple as that.
	So you can say a million different things in defense of what the police did, and in understanding how their adrenaline was pumping, why they were ticked off, their own lives have been at risk.
	None of it, though, justifies dispensing justice on the spot.
	And, look, I've seen that thing a million times, and that's basically what it boiled down to was a sort of a dispensing of justice right there on the spot, and I'm not in favor of that, and none of what you said really justifies that.
	So, hopefully the authorities, and it looks as though they are, will treat this quickly and fairly and justly.
	And if they do, then there should not be trouble.
	The trouble comes when there is no justice perceived.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yeah, this is Steve in Portland.
	Hi, Steve.
	And I've become convinced tonight and won over by the people who think that our founding fathers, you know, founded this Christian nation.
	And I think everyone should be Christian.
	Why?
	And I think only landowners should vote.
	And women should not be given the vote.
	And as frequently as possible, barefoot and pregnant, right?
	That's right.
	And we should all own slaves, too, like the founding fathers did.
	I think that you're consistent, Steve.
	That's right.
	And I'd like to put a bid on the guy who believes that technology is the work of the devil.
	Yes.
	Because I know he won't mind sleeping on a dirt floor or Working out in the field with just a hand tool.
	Well, we know a couple things about him.
	He had a radio.
	That's true, I know.
	The devil's tool.
	I was going to call it and say that until Bryn Maree got in ahead of me there.
	Then he called us with some level of telephone technology.
	And then he was distributed throughout the world by the internet.
	He's probably bashing his head against the blank stone wall right now.
	That's right.
	If God wanted to talk all over the world, he would have given us a cup and a string attached to our mouth.
	Oh, one of the best calls of the night, Steve.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	If God had wanted us to do all that, he'd have given us a string attached to our ears with a cup.
	That's right.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	Hello.
	I'm with Cusco.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Wisconsin.
	Wisconsin.
	Okay.
	With Cusco?
	Yes.
	Have you played any of their new albums as bumper music?
	Oh, yes.
	How new are you talking about?
	I've got a Pyramac 1 and 2, and the second cut on a Pyramac 2 is just wonderful.
	Oh, yes.
	I know.
	I play it all the time.
	Yeah, I know.
	But what are their new albums like?
	Excellent.
	And they've got another in the... It's going to be a trilogy that's going to deal with Native American music.
	I'm really looking forward to that.
	It'll be a Permac 3.
	Oh, neat!
	See?
	There's a secret for you.
	Where are you calling from?
	Kenosha.
	Kenosha, Wisconsin.
	All right.
	The Lip.
	Oh, The Lip.
	What a great set of call letters.
	I wonder if there's a CLIP.
	K-L-I-P.
	I don't know.
	There might be.
	There's a W-L-I-P, so there ought to be a CLIP somewhere.
	All right.
	And your bumper music on your Friday night or Saturday?
	Yes.
	Your, your, oh.
	My what?
	Oh, Joy.
	Yes.
	Is that a whole CD or is that one cutter?
	It's called the O of Pleasure.
	O of Pleasure, okay.
	And who does it?
	And that's the Dreamland theme.
	Yeah.
	It's Ray Lynch.
	Ray Lynch.
	Listen, you've got it.
	That's it.
	We're out of time.
	From Kenosha, Wisconsin, you know what to say.
	Good night, everybody.
	Come on, you know what to say!
	This has been the Art Thou Show!
	Good night America!
	Good night America!

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