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April 2, 1996 - Art Bell

02:50:11

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Euthanasia & Immigration - Open Lines

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and morning, as the case may be in all these many time zones now actually worldwide, and I'll talk a little more about that tonight.
		Welcome.
		Good to have you.
		Coast to Coast AM is the show, but the coverage now is sort of worldwide.
		It's actually amazing what's happened in this program.
		Commercially, from the Hawaiian Islands, the Asian Islands, all the way across this great land, to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide via the internet.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha, it's good to be here, everybody.
		I want to get this out right away.
		I learned last night that real audio was down for a while on the internet, or if not most of the program, so there you are.
		Our international line works.
		AT ⁇ T has done it, folks.
		And we learned that throughout the evening, last evening.
		And we got it checked out from all kinds of locations around the world.
		And we'll give it out now.
		Along with the other numbers we have, we're now prepared to take free international calls.
		I say again, free international calls.
		We have right here, right here in front of my finger, the first truly toll-free international line in the world.
		And AT ⁇ T did that for us, and I want to thank the AT ⁇ T, man.
		They have worked their butts off.
		And they actually did it.
		They didn't even know if they could do it.
		It was a challenge, and they took it up.
		So we have an international toll-free line.
		It will not cost you any money from anywhere in the world.
		And the way you call it, now listen very, very carefully.
		It may vary a little country to country.
		In some countries, you're going to have to get the operator, like Hong Kong.
		But in many countries, all you've got to do is call up your operator and get the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
		Get it and dial it.
		And then dial 800-893-0903.
		It is going to take us a while, obviously, to develop this and for the word to get out.
		The new international line is now up on the webpage as well.
		But let me say it one more time.
		If you want to call internationally from wherever you are in the world, you just toll free at that.
		Just an amazing thing.
		And I, again, boy, thank you, AT ⁇ T, for all your work.
		Dial and all the nasty things I said about AT ⁇ T. Dial your AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number and then our 800-893-0903 number.
		That's 800-893-0903 internationally when we begin taking calls.
		Now, the videotaped police beating of two suspected illegal immigrants has sparked outrage in Southern California's Mexican-American community.
		Trouble.
		It's also drawn condemnation from Mexico and concern from the White House.
		A statement from about everybody involved, Governor Wilson, who said it seems excessive force was used.
		Two sheriff's deputies were captured on videotape, beating the suspects, and they've been now suspended.
		It occurred in Riverside County, south of L.A., and I began to see this story breaking last night, but intentionally did not comment on it because it was simply too early.
		We didn't have enough details.
		We still don't have a lot, but we have a lot more.
		It was, of course, a high-speed chase on a California freeway.
		It was the police chasing a pickup truck, an open pickup truck, loaded with what seemed to be illegal aliens at speeds varying from 80 to 100 miles an hour.
		It went on for an hour and a half.
		Then the truck stopped, the immigrants scattered.
		A man and woman who were in the truck were beaten with nightsticks.
		The man receiving multiple bruises, possibly a fractured elbow.
		The woman dragged from the truck by her hair and then beaten and beaten pretty hard with nightsticks.
		All of this was caught from above, of course, in the tradition of Rodney King, by television cameras and replayed just like Rodney King was all day long with a nauseum.
		I've seen that beating, I'm gonna guess, 15 times.
		15 times.
		It's being investigated by the FBI and two sheriff's departments.
		The Riverside County Sheriff's Office is admitting they're embarrassed.
		They put both deputies on paid leave, pending an investigation of the whole thing and charges.
		In Washington, the Justice Department immediately moved, ordered the FBI in.
		All the illegal aliens who you saw scatter in the video are now in custody.
		They may be material witnesses.
		Everybody with the Rodney King mess on the mind moved quickly to prevent possible civil rights violations and of course to prevent angry community response.
		Nobody wants that.
		Now the discussion going wild of course on talk radio is whether excessive brutality was used.
unidentified		Clearly it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The ACLU properly is now wanting everybody to look into high-speed pursuits.
		What they call the high-speed pursuit syndrome.
		And I know exactly what it is.
		Now you've got to bear in mind this was no minor chase.
		It went on for an hour and a half.
		The people in the pickup truck threw things at the police car, threw objects at the police car.
		The people in the truck began to pull parts of the truck apart and throw it at the police car.
		Two other innocent vehicles were sideswiped in the process.
		Now, we can discuss the details of what occurred.
		No question about it.
		Police officers are human beings.
		And when they've chased somebody for an hour and a half and people have been throwing things at them and trying to do violence to them and could have gotten them killed, and innocent people, by the way, I might add, could have been killed on the highway.
		The problem is, once they were stopped, and I know the adrenaline by then is going crazy, the heart is beating 1,000 miles an hour, and you're so damn angry at whoever's in that truck and wouldn't stop that you're ready to spit.
		And you do, with your baton.
		So here's what I'm prepared to say.
		You know, I've looked back over the years and I have participated in law enforcement not as a cop, you know, as a dispatcher.
		And I know something about it.
		And these cops are human beings.
		They reacted to what was done to them.
		Maybe the danger to citizens, to the adrenaline of the rush, all the rest of it.
		Nothing justifies what they did.
		Because it seems like the people were submissive.
		Now, see, we couldn't hear what was going on on the ground, so we don't know what orders were being given and perhaps disobeyed.
		We don't know the whole story yet, but it's pretty hard to deny that what we did see was not justified.
		That amount of force did not seem to be justified, and that's my reaction, and I would assume that of most of you.
		Here's Scott.
		Hi, Art.
		Just as the public's memory of Rodney King had begun to fade, the police in Southern California have shot themselves in the foot.
		In doing so, they reopened the wound in the public's trust and once again have cast all police officers in a poor light.
		In the seven years I've been in law enforcement, I've never carried a baton, nor have I needed one to subdue a suspect.
		That's not to say they are not a legitimate law enforcement weapon.
		Batons used in the manner in which they're intended are invaluable tools and often reduce the need to use lethal force.
		Ironically, I was just issued a collapsible baton yesterday.
		After a little soul searching, I've decided I'll carry it.
		In the end, I have to trust in the training I've received and in myself to do the right thing.
		If I can't do that, then I shouldn't be carrying a baton, let alone a gun.
		So there you are.
		Scott for the first time called the program yesterday.
		And this from Joan in Thousand Oaks about Riverside, why isn't anybody addressing the safety and civil rights of all who were menaced by the illegals in the speeding, reckless driving, wreck-tossing truck?
		Now, that surely is a fair question.
		I mean, they tore across.
		They began to wreak havoc.
		They threw things, parts of the truck, sideswiped other cars.
		There were a lot of lives in danger here.
		By the way, it's just sort of loosely related, but I got this email and I thought you'd enjoy it.
		Art, just a note about our immigration problem.
		I am an agent at Brownfield Station, and almost all of the agents here listen to your show.
		I can say one thing for certain.
		Charlie is not an agent in San Diego.
		Every agent around here hates him more than anything else.
		Anyway, we are being overrun by aliens, and now the higher-ups are making us sit on exes.
		In other words, one stationary spot, and we can't move.
		So when we see aliens run by, we call it in, and maybe somebody in a backup unit can chase them.
		I could tell you so many stories about behind-the-scenes action, or should I say, lack of it, in the San Diego sector.
		That's, of course, part of all this.
		Or another one, I've got lots.
		I'm writing to you due to the current firestorm of controversy surrounding the police beating that occurred yesterday afternoon in Southern California.
		I've watched the local and international news, and in every case, the top story is about this.
		I am a former deputy Sheriff in Riverside County.
		Now working for a federal law enforcement agency and was a classmate of Tracy Watkins, the deputy involved in the incident.
		Tracy has loved being a cop so much he actually paid his own way through Southern California Peace Officers Academy.
		Following graduation, hired by the Riverside County Sheriff and assigned to the Lake Elsinore Station.
		I've never known Tracy to be heavy-handed, brutal, or unfair.
		He's performed his duties for the last five years in a manner that served the people of the community and his department well.
	30 seconds of a controversial videotape does not equal five years of service to his community, and this is being overlooked.
	There is very little being said about the group of illegal aliens who were in the vehicle that was being pursued.
	The vehicle had been running since it ran a border checkpoint at Temecula, which is located north of San Diego on Interstate 15.
	It continued for about 80 miles until its conclusion with both the U.S. Border Patrol and Riverside Sheriff's Department involved in the chase.
	The media is not showing the occupants of the truck throwing everything from beer bottles to destroying, then following the entire camper shell, then throwing the camper shell.
	That's right, they were riding in at the police and other vehicles.
	The driver of the truck was driving extremely recklessly and even rammed several vehicles in an attempt to cause an accident so they could avoid being caught.
	So that gives you a little bit of perspective on all of this as you begin to prepare to comment.
	And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of comment about it.
	There's a lot of other news, and I'm just not getting through it fast enough.
	In New York, a federal appeals court ruling on the right to die.
	This is a very serious ruling.
	The question is, what is a doctor's obligation to a terminally ill patient who wants to commit suicide?
	Now, what is that doctor's obligation?
	Answer from the Federal Appeals Court is that the court shall not ban doctors.
	The Constitution does not ban doctors from the practice of helping patients to die.
	Today's decision really leaves no doubt at all.
	Physicians have a constitutional right in helping patients to die.
	A constitutional right.
	The court said, quote, listen to this.
	Physicians do not fulfill the role of killer by prescribing drugs any more than they do by disconnecting life support systems.
	The Catholic Church, as you can well imagine, is not happy about this, and they call it excessive judicial interference.
	The whole thing now is headed to the U.S. Supreme Court.
	So we shall see.
	But I do believe that if you look at the decision in Washington, now New York, that there is going to be a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court that is going to rival in its controversial nature that of Roe v.
	Wade.
	This will be as big a decision in its own way as Roe v.
	Wade.
	And I would bet you the High Court rules and holds up the decision in Washington, now the one in New York, which basically legitimizes doctor-assisted suicide.
	The focus of all this has been on Dr. Kay, right?
	He's the guy who's grabbed the headlines.
	But as I've told you right along, this has been an issue far bigger than Kvorkian.
	Kevorkian is just one very public case.
	In America, doctors behind the scenes and quietly and without all the hoop-law have been helping patients to die for as long as I've been around.
	They do that.
	It just occurs.
	In other words, in the progress of a fatal disease, AIDS, cancer, whatever it would be, in the final stages, it gets to the point where the amount of medication the doctor must prescribe to truly take away the pain is very close to a lethal dose, you know, right on the edge.
	And if the patient has that medicine around, obviously they can and do leave prematurely.
	Choosing not to go through the final agonizing throes, the horrible throes, I might add, of a very painful death.
	And I have been on the side of this for a very long time.
	I know it's a slippery slope and I don't want to slide down, but I also see no reason to let people suffer.
	Do you?
	Do you?
	Is there a reason?
	My wife once told me there was, and I've been thoughtful about it, that a painful death is something that you are supposed to go through.
	And if you're supposed to go through it, and I've thought and thought and thought about this, that in essence there's a kind of a bad karmic end if you take the easy way out and it will destine you to relive an even more difficult time in another life or another existence.
	I don't know.
	The other way of looking at it is that, you know, God intends for you to go through This it is part of your individual life cycle, and you should go through it and not shorten it.
	So, I've been very thoughtful about it.
	It's a very thoughtful topic.
	I wonder what you think.
	Late report on the Freeman quickly.
	They've got a lot of firepower, I guess.
	We're hearing now they've got a 50-caliber full machine gun.
	Now, it may be somebody's got a license for that.
	I don't know.
	They haven't said.
	But it looks like they've got a lot of guns there.
	A lot of guns.
	Plus, they've got an explosives expert, somebody who's worked with dynamite.
	So, if it comes to blows, it will be big blows.
	Okay, this is where we're going to break at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	I have yet a little more, and then off into Talk Radioville we go.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April
		2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an Encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, woe is me.
		Here come the facts and the response to the beating.
		I can already tell what it's going to be like.
		You're not going to believe it.
		Or maybe you are.
		I say woe is me because I know what this is going to bring.
		Art, instead of beating two illegal immigrants, how about shooting 2,000 of them?
		They get the message not to cross illegally, huh?
		Some of us taxpayers have had enough.
		CG in Pasadena, California, a nice reasoned, moderate response.
		Followed by this, hi art, beat them?
		Any piece of garbage who comes into this country illegally should be executed on the spot.
		End of conversation.
		Basement John.
		P.S. While you're at it, hang every SOB in the ACLU.
unidentified		Sheesh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guys, why don't we start out with a nice, moderate response to all of this?
		Holy mackerel.
		I'm going to tell you what I think.
		It's the same thing I have always thought.
		And here it comes.
		I think the U.S. ought to build a wall.
		I have thought for years and years the U.S. should build a wall.
		We had the technology back in NAM to detect people crawling along a trail thousands of miles away.
		They could sit in Washington and they could watch the traffic and tell you how many footsteps there were trotting along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in the dark of night.
		I mean, we had that technology then.
		Imagine what we've got now.
		We have the power and have had it, not the will, to close our border.
		And that doesn't mean keep all immigrants out.
		That means simply know who cometh and goeth.
		And if we would do that, we wouldn't have high-speed chases north of San Diego, past a checkpoint.
		That kind of thing wouldn't happen because we would know who's on our highway.
		And if they want to stop it, that's how they can do it.
		Do we have a right to know who's bringing in cocaine and heroin, the majority of which comes from the Mexican border?
		You're damn right, we do.
		That's a federal area.
		Our border is a federal area.
		And we should erect a fence, a wall, an electronic barrier, whatever it takes, and then this kind of thing would not occur.
		Or at least if it did, it would be damn rare.
		So that's what I think.
		Do I think excessive force was used?
		Yeah, probably was.
		There was probably no need to subdue them in that manner.
		Although even there, there's a little bit of a question.
		But anybody who watched the videotape can't be in great doubt.
		Well, I've got a whole lot more here, but not more time.
		So let me hit my international number one more time here, folks.
		I'm kind of proud of it.
		AT ⁇ T got the toll-free international line open.
		So no matter where you are in the world, you can call us toll-free.
		All you've got to do is call your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
		And if you don't have it, you can get it from your operator anywhere in the world.
		And then the following number.
		800-893-0903.
		And for you anywhere, it will be toll-free.
		So get the word out.
		Relatives, friends living overseas, let them know whether you're listening on one of our great 50,000-watt stations broadcasting from this country or anywhere else, you can call us toll-free now.
		The internet.
		The USA direct access number, then 800-893-0903.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening to you.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to comment on your wife's musings about karmic debt concerning suffering at the end of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And how, you know, you might come back and have to do it again.
		I perceive that along with Christian thought and Asian thought concerning karma, it's been very easy to point to the suffering as somebody's lot in life for their karmic debt.
		But in reality, I see it as more profoundly a societal karmic debt that causes such suffering for the masses as being an overpopulation, et cetera, et cetera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I would, if it came to the conclusion about suffering at the end of death, I'm really unable to grasp for my own consideration the greater karmic thing that you're talking about with regard to society's behavior.
		To me, this is reduced to what I would do myself.
		How about you?
unidentified		What I would do at the end of life?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's say that you had a fatal disease, cancer, AIDS, doesn't matter, whatever.
		It was going to end painfully and soon, and you were in the last throes of it.
		Should a doctor have a right to help you end it sooner than it would otherwise end, prevent that horrible end suffering?
unidentified		Well, yes, I believe I should have access and probably would to morphine, as you were saying, and would be able to do that.
unidentified		And it's already being done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the question is, the challenger here is whether you think, and I've really thought about this for years after my wife said it to me, we had to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whether you are meant, in effect, by God or nature or whatever it is, whether you believe there's going to be another life or whether you believe this one simply must be concluded in its totality, including the suffering at the end, whether it's karmically proper you go through that or it's okay to take a shortcut, bow out, say goodnight, that's it, I've had enough, I'm out of here.
unidentified		Well, I think naturally morphine's there to help alleviate suffering, and people are able to utilize what is here for that purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that you should run for office because you answered a question with the skill of, well, Newt Gingrich.
unidentified		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You like him, I don't, so I can't relate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
		Well, you pick them.
		They're all about the same, left or right.
		They're good politicians.
		They have the ability to answer a question without ever answering it.
unidentified		Well, I think I answered it by saying that more so it's a societal karmic problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I talked about you and asked about you, and you talked about society.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Yeah, but that's the society's dictating what, you know, the individual does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, dear.
		Thank you.
		Well, obviously, I'm not going to go any farther than that.
		On my international line, which is ringing.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		I'm Kui.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, where are you?
unidentified		In Japan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You in Japan?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are on the air.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All over the world.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where in Japan are you?
unidentified		Do you know Fukui Prefecture?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say it again, please.
unidentified		Fukui Prefecture, near Osaka.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Near Osaka.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how are you hearing us?
unidentified		How are you hearing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, how do you hear us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On computer?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		I heard this radio program from my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, your English is quite good.
unidentified		Sorry to be worse.
unidentified		I can't speak English well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're doing fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you hear on this program?
unidentified		What?
unidentified		No, I've never heard this radio program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		then how did you get this phone number uh...
unidentified		i i think I heard this line from a friend.
unidentified		Maybe he is hearing this radio program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		now.
		He said to me, "Could you call this line?" Yes.
		Well, six times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five or six times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your friend's name?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your friend name?
unidentified		Name?
		Name.
		His name?
		Yes.
		His name is Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dave?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
unidentified		Jerry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jerry?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you can say hi, Jerry.
unidentified		Hi, Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is your first name?
unidentified		First name?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Ah, Kumi.
		Kumi.
		I'm Kumi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kumi.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Kumi.
		Well, you said hi to him?
		I said, you said hello to him.
		That's nice.
unidentified		Hello, Jerry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kumi, anything else?
unidentified		Yeah, Jerry, could you call me later?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there you are.
		That's the message.
		Could you call me later?
		All the way from a prefecture whose name I did not quite get, Coomi.
		Oh, I could see this is going to be fun.
		This is going to be fun.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a question on the man from NASA's Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Hoagland.
unidentified		Yeah, I heard a tape of the program you did with him when he announced the press conference, and I haven't heard your program since.
unidentified		I was wondering...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's been about 1,000 miles of water under the bridge since then.
		what i would suggest to you we have the photographs on our website uh...
		so you can get them there and take a look or you can wait and see them in our newsletter where they're going to be published one of the two There was talk of making them.
		Yes, sir.
		Yes, they did.
		But one of the archive people who took care of the photographs came forward.
		So yes, but I really can't fill you in on all of this.
		Catch up with it on the website or our newsletter.
unidentified		I realize that.
unidentified		I'm amazed that the networks, the major networks haven't picked this up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, many of the major networks did pick it up.
		There was an article in the Washington Post.
		The Associated Press ran a story.
		CNN was running a story, so you missed it.
		Okay?
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, sir.
		Sorry, I can't kind of do a replay of the whole thing, but there was a very great deal that went on.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, Harry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		You didn't tell us the most important news of the day.
unidentified		Where did you find Comet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes, yes.
		And almost had a heart attack in the process.
		We searched every corner of our house for this wildcat of ours, and he was not to be found.
		Just when we were thinking, well, maybe he figured out a way to get outside, impossible though it seems, because we couldn't find him.
		And so we went in and opened a drawer in a chest of drawers, and somehow, somehow, he had crawled up behind the chest of drawers and crawled into a drawer where he was curled up and happy.
		When we opened that drawer, sir, true to his name, like a streak of orange, he came flying out of that drawer, and both of us just about had a total heart attack.
unidentified		Well, you know, I was trying to get through to you last night, and that was one of the places I was going to tell you to check, because my cat used to do that quite often.
		That's the threat in the chest of, you know, where my clothes are.
		Somehow I get in behind and get in the drawer from behind somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Behind, behind.
		2020 hindsight psychic vision.
		Should have told me last night.
		Sheesh, I almost had a heart attack.
		Well, today, Comet is beginning to slowly come forth.
		It's really funny to listen to.
		He's having this little internal fight with himself.
		He's living in the bathroom, and that's his safe place.
		And you'll hear this meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, like this.
		And what he's doing is he's fighting with himself.
		It's like, I want to come out.
		I'm lonely.
		I really want friends.
		But, you know, I'm scared to death of you.
		And so that's exactly where it is.
		And he's venturing out now.
		He'll steal out from his room and walk around the living room a little bit and then suddenly get spooked and go running back to his bathroom.
		And then you'll hear him meow and he'll fight with himself for a while and he'll come out again.
		And he'll look around.
		It really is pretty cool, actually.
		We're watching a completely wild animal discover a civilized world.
		And he's not banging into walls anymore, anything like that.
		He's walking.
		So things are changing, and it's really, really fun to watch.
		But man, if you could have seen that cat gum shooting out of that door, heart attack time.
unidentified		"The cat is a little bit more than a cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Jeff from Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jeff.
unidentified		Hi, I wanted to talk a little bit about what happened in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Now, the ACLU is trying to say that those police officers violated their civil rights.
unidentified		If they were illegal aliens, they don't have civil rights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, they do.
unidentified		They do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		How if they're not legal citizens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody on our soil enjoys the same rough civil rights we do.
		Not all of them, but they have civil rights, the right not to be beaten unnecessarily, have excessive force used.
		They have the right to, generally, to an attorney.
		They have the right to go through our judicial system and be judged as we would be.
		So those are civil rights.
unidentified		Okay, let me tell you a little story about the ACLU.
		Now, here in Houston, they had a Holocaust Museum open up.
		And some of my friends went down there, and they were denied entry in there on the opening day.
		Why?
		Well, they said that you need a special invitation.
		Now, before they went...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you have an opening to something, you have a special one-day invitation list of people, and then the general public gets to go the next day or something.
unidentified		Well, no, I had called that morning to make sure, and I asked them if it was open to the public today, and they said yes.
		And when they got there, I guess the manager or the owner or whatever had a police officer come over and kick them off the property.
		For the simple fact that they were proud white men.
		Now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does that mean?
unidentified		Well, they were a member of an organization there just to observe what kind of lies the Holocaust Museum was portraying in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by proud white men?
unidentified		They were exactly what I said, proud white men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all a key.
		What does that mean?
		And what's the organization you belong to?
unidentified		It's the National Socialist Organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		National Socialist Organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is their view of the Holocaust?
unidentified		Well, that most of it's a lie.
unidentified		There were not six million Jews in Germany at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that it makes any difference whether it was two million, even one million, or six million that were killed?
unidentified		Well, do I think it makes a difference?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, does it make a difference?
unidentified		It doesn't matter to me.
unidentified		The only thing is they're lying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So not one Jew was killed, is that it?
unidentified		Well, what about the city of Dresden?
unidentified		We're forced to kill you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's have you stay with my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think not one Jew was killed and the whole thing is a lie?
unidentified		Do I not think one Jew was killed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the whole thing was a lie?
unidentified		No, I'm not saying the whole thing was a lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of it was a lie?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many Jews do you think were killed?
unidentified		I'd say probably no more than two million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No more than two million?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what would you say about that?
unidentified		What would I say about that?
		Yeah, the two million.
		Time of war.
		The two million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Time of war?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thanks for the call.
		Well, I think you told me basically what I suspected you would tell me, based on what you said.
		It's a couple million people.
		It's war.
		You know when there's a war, why you can march people in showers and gas.
		You sir are a white Aryan.
		You sir are a white supremacist.
		You sir are probably a Nazi as well.
		If not, have sympathy with Nazis.
		That's what I would conclude from what you tiptoed about and tried to say.
		So that's what I think.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		It's finally good to talk to you.
		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm TJ.
		I'm calling from Colorado Springs.
		Excellent.
		Excellent.
		I really enjoy your program.
		I was wondering if you'd ever thought of having Richard Bach, do you know the author of Jonathan Livingston Seagull?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Or anyone from the one of my truly all-time favorites.
		God, I love that.
unidentified		The reason I ask is Gordon Michael Scallion had said something about the things he saw possibly being changed by people getting a positive attitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		And these are people that have really helped me to change my life, to think in a more positive way.
unidentified		And I just thought it'd be good to hear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		It would make a good show, and I'd love to have them on.
		So that'd be one interview that I would absolutely love to do.
		Sure.
		Listen, I've got to run.
		We're at the top of the hour in news time and all that stuff.
unidentified		Good to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you called.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right, we are going to break here.
		I'll find out what's going on as if we didn't know, and we'll be right back with more.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April
		2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what it is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		We also have our new international toll-free, that's right, toll-free line.
		No matter where you are in the world or how you're hearing us, you can call us toll-free.
		And the way you do it is call your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
		You can get that from the operator.
		Just call the operator and ask her what is the USA access number.
		And then after you do that, call 800-893-0903.
		Once again, 800-893-0903.
		That's our new toll-free international line, the first toll-free international line in the whole world.
		There have been toll-free lines from certain countries to certain countries, but never have they opened up the entire world to toll-free calling.
		It's cool, and it's working.
		Dear Art, regarding the virulent and vicious anti-immigrant sentiments, how many of these good humanitarians want to pick crops?
		I'd damn sure rather my tax dollars be used to educate the children of illegals than go to disgusting corporate welfare and obscene government waste.
		Liberal sue in Illinois chiming in.
		Well, yes, but we need not have the problem, as I explained last hour.
		There's no reason why we can't control our borders.
		We had the facilities, the ability to do that long, long ago.
		And so that's the answer to the problem.
		I mean, control the borders.
		Know what comes and goes, who comes and goes.
		It doesn't mean no immigrants to pick crops.
		We've had a Bresario program and could have another.
		We can let the people in we want in, no problem.
		But we need to guard the borders.
		Be a good mission for this president.
		It would Be a very popular one, too.
		Then this cops shouldn't lose control.
		And yes, we do have rights.
		We have rights to a secure border.
		We have rights to safe roads.
		And we have rights to an orderly society.
		Right on, Mike.
		And then the other issue we're talking about because of the New York decision.
		Aren't doctor-assisted suicide has legitimate arguments, both pro and con.
		But my fear, and maybe unfounded, is that how long is it going to be before the patient is not included in the loop for such decisions?
		Would we have euthanasia?
		What if we're forced into government-controlled managed health care by some future Congress via Clinton's wouldn't the government, maybe even Hillary types, be making this private decision intentioned for the family and their doctor?
		Well, that is, of course, the bottom of the slippery slope, but I'm not sure that it's an absolute ride that would be taken.
		It's a long jump between a patient's personal decision and somebody else making that decision for them.
		To me, it is.
		That's a big jump.
		All right, anyway, back to the phones.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
		Going once, going twice, going.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Leonard of South Dakota.
unidentified		Well, you know what I wish?
unidentified		You could let me get on the air with you and sit down as a friend and discuss a few things instead of treating me as an adversary and cutting me off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Leonard, I cut everybody off.
unidentified		Well, there's a few things I'd like to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's an equal opportunity cutoff, Leonard.
unidentified		There's some things that some of your listeners would like you to see through, and you don't want to see them.
unidentified		You won't let anybody tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People tell me all the time, Leonard, but the only vision that there'll be will come from me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And despite all your best words and all the best words of anybody out there, Leonard, I'm the one who's got to have the vision, okay?
unidentified		Well, that's right.
unidentified		But don't you want to make the decision on the truth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to make the decision on my own, Leonard.
		Thank you.
		And there we go again with another equal opportunity cutoff.
		I don't want to be preached to.
		These are personal issues, and of course, Leonard speaks of religion, that I'm working on myself.
		And we're here to do a talk show, not have a preaching session.
		If you want to do that, do it on Sunday in church.
		You know, I'll work it out myself, Leonard.
		No kidding.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		It's Robert calling from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Robert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		I was just calling to talk about this Montana thing.
		I think that's the subject you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are open lines, partner.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, I have an idea of what they should do there.
		It's still going on, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, these people, they don't believe that they're Americans.
		And they haven't given their consent to be governed, and they don't think that they have a right not to be governed until they give their consent.
		So I think that what we should do is have Congress declare their property to be foreign soil and declare war on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you want to, in effect, cede the sovereignty of this country to a bunch of jerks?
unidentified		Well, it would be over in a short time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but we don't need to do that.
		That acknowledges their claim of sovereignty.
		They don't have a sovereign anything there, except as sovereign as any of us are on our own property.
		Well, theirs has been declared.
		They didn't pay for it, and there have been eviction notices, foreclosures, and last name of that tune.
		We don't need to declare them a foreign country.
		That's ridiculous.
unidentified		And I thought we could declare all the free men living in the United States as foreign agents and spies and clean them up that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's ridiculous.
		That would simply add weight to their worthless claims.
		What's in a name, Mart, the standoff between federal officers and the freemen in Montana is disturbing on several fronts.
		The patriot jerks that have been defrauding merchants of bogus checks and generally being thorns in their neighbors' sides for more than a year, their arguments against law and order are specious.
		That part said, I do not understand the reasoning that makes it permissible or desirable to send in the FBI and BATF in a media frenzy.
		Average Americans write bad checks every day and don't risk such a reaction.
		Yes, sir, but they don't threaten local law enforcement officials.
		They don't defraud people.
		They don't take people's farms.
		They don't declare themselves to be sovereign when they are not sovereign.
		We are a nation of states in a union, aren't we?
		The United States of America.
		So the way to solve this is not to agree with them that there are sovereign little fiefdoms and kingdoms within the United States.
		No way.
		West of the Rockies, you would have been on the air.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you do that?
unidentified		Yeah, turn it off, Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve, turn it.
		Steve figures Steve would have the volume up, of course.
		Anyway, where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Indianapolis, Indiana.
unidentified		Is this art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Oh, hey, how's it going?
unidentified		I guess there must be a delay, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called an Art Bell Career Protecting Delay.
unidentified		Oh.
		I didn't realize that.
		Well, my brother just told me about that.
		I could get you on the WOAI live feed over the internet, and I just listened to you the last couple nights.
		There you are.
		It's really cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is cool, yes.
unidentified		Very cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that goes worldwide, you know?
unidentified		Yeah, I heard Kumi.
unidentified		I heard Kumi just calling a little while ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she said hi to her boyfriend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I was thinking about after she called?
unidentified		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's nice to hear from these little Japanese girls and others saying hi to their, obviously, to their American boyfriends.
		But, you know, what if there's some wife out there, sitting out there someplace, who would hear some cute little Japanese girl call in from some unnamable prefecture saying hi to her husband?
		Not cool.
		Just a thought.
unidentified		That's funny.
		Yeah.
		That's funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, what can I do for you, sir?
unidentified		Well, my roommate just had to write the number down, so he was so excited he got through, I was like, going, I don't have nothing I want to talk about tonight.
		But I do really kind of.
		You know the organization Hospice, don't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
unidentified		You've heard of that?
		Well, I just read a really interesting article the other day here in the Indianapolis Star comparing hospice to Dr. Kvorki.
		You know, and the hospice, I just had a cousin that passed away recently, and I wasn't there when she passed away, but I know that says in lieu of sending flowers, you know, give money to the organization hospice.
		Sure.
		And I didn't even realize that it was about exactly what it was about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not necessarily about assisted suicide, sir.
		A hospice is a place where people go to spend their final days.
		Although I suppose these issues are certainly present in a hospice.
		In other words, as you increase the dose of painkiller or whatever required to control the pain, you get to the point where you're on the edge of a lethal dose.
unidentified		Right, right.
unidentified		And I suspected that it was the fact that that was maybe what happened and possibly Julie passed away before the disease really would have actually took her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what are your feelings about that?
		Julie, you say?
		Would you rather now think that Julie suffered painfully until the very, very end or that she was helped or made a decision on her own to hasten it?
unidentified		I think that hospice probably helped her or let her make a decision to go ahead and increase the morphine or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, how do you feel about that?
unidentified		Well, I think that I think it's a lot nicer of a thing than in the back of a van in a parking lot with Dr. Kvorkin.
		Here, here.
		To be in your home, in your bed, with people around you that you love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Thank you.
		Look, Dr. Kvorkian is just very public, but this is a far, far bigger issue and has been going on in this country for a long time, very privately, between physicians and families and patients, and everybody knows it.
		It's just that we're now beginning to get court decisions that legalize it.
		Legalize it.
		We're in a very litigation-minded society.
		And there had to be a decision about this made.
		Now, the latest, of course, in New York, saying that a doctor has a constitutional right, a constitutional right to help a patient end it.
		This is going to the U.S. Supreme Court.
		The Catholic Church will find it every inch of the way.
		So, Dr. Kvorkin is just a name that is presently at the head of this list.
		And you really, really ought to know that it's going on all over the place anyway.
		And so, I guess we've got to ask ourselves what we want in our society, whether we want a patient and a doctor to be able to make that decision legally or not.
unidentified		What is your answer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Bell, the only way to gain a proper perspective on assisted death is to look into the eyes of a loved one who's lying there in pain, brought on by one of God's wonderful diseases.
		Or be that person, Dave in Sarasota, Florida.
		It's kind of another slash at God, huh?
		Greetings from Memphis, just drifting off to sleep during the Dr. K debate.
		One thing to add to the pondering.
		Medical science has given us the ability to prolong life, which sometimes implies prolonging suffering.
		Should an individual not have the right to be able to ease that suffering and end their own life, which may conceivably be artificially prolonged in the first place.
		Euthanasia is fair game for those incapable of making their own decisions.
		Why not for those who are capable?
		Enjoy the show quite a bit.
		Can't wait to upgrade my computer and catch you on video.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Hark.
		Hello.
		I'm calling from Vincent's, Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My name's Tim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tim.
unidentified		I just had to turn down my 818 CS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, is that a fine machine or what?
unidentified		Yeah, I really do like it.
unidentified		I'm managing to get a little luck with the shortwave antenna, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What'd you put up?
unidentified		Oh, I've picked up Russia.
		knowing what i mean what kind of shortwave antenna product pain I ordered the little one.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one day, one day, one day, take about 60 feet of wire, put an insulator on the end of it, throw it up in a tree or, you know, up to another side of an apartment or whatever you've got there, and it'll go nuts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you'll just hear ten times what you hear now.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Wow.
		Hey, I'm the one that wanted to name your cat Cusco.
		Remember that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that was a close second, but it turns out Comet really does fit.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I agree.
		Especially with the antics Comet's been pulling, it sounds good.
		I like Comet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're at the end of the line, opened the drawer, and he had nestled himself in an underwear drawer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was very happy there, but he came flying out of there like a shot out of a gun and talk about having a heart attack.
unidentified		Sheesh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's like in, you remember Alien?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, the little orange cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, just like that.
		Believe me, the same, when you're in the movie and you saw it, your heart jumped.
		In real life, your whole body flexes.
		It was terrible.
unidentified		I had an experience with a wild cat one time.
		I caught a pigeon.
		And there was this wild cat.
		And I was in the Navy and we were on an area where we found our shoes.
		And I caught this pigeon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And there was this wild cat sitting there.
		And, you know, it acted pretty docile.
		But just like Comet jumped.
		Oh, man.
		I got near it with that pigeon I caught and the thing attacked it in my hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		There was, I forget what it was.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		My wife and I saw a movie in which it was a comedy.
		It wasn't even a movie.
		It was a comedy skit in which all animals turned against their owners.
		And it was horrible.
		Dogs and cats jumping on people's faces.
		You know, and they're struggling to get the dogs and the cats off.
		And all the animals in the world turned against their owners.
		And even goldfish were leaping out of bowls and doing unmentionable things to people.
		It was pretty funny.
		Well, let me see.
		What have I got to get done?
		Do I have anything I've got to get done?
		No, I think I'm clear.
		Don't forget our new international line.
		It's up and running.
		It's totally cool.
		Wherever you are in the world, we want to hear from you.
		If you're listening on the internet in Europe, in Britain, in Australia, it doesn't matter where you are.
		It's toll-free.
		It won't cost you any money.
		So call us.
		Get the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number for America.
		And then simply dial 800-893-0903.
		Now, in some countries, like we found out yesterday in Hong Kong, you've got to call the operator, and she'll take the 800 number from you, and there'll be no charge.
		USA Direct Access, then 800-893-0903.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you sorry?
unidentified		I'm not sorry.
		Okay.
		Go ahead then.
		I'm calling from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, from uh San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		And I was wondering if you ever feel like you're working in a museum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Why all the people call up and say, is this art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was a little funny, huh?
unidentified		Well, not too funny, I guess.
unidentified		What I'm calling about really is, um, I guess the president sent back the uh uh long uh where the babies aborted and uh close to being birthed giving birth late term abortion, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh the bill the president uh said he would veto, yes.
unidentified		And he did.
		Uh he sent it back to Congress.
		Uh I was wondering if they were killing prisoners on death row in this matter.
		How many of the human rights groups would be around fighting for this?
		And if they were doing the prisoners in this manner, no pun intended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very good question.
		It's a very, very good question.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
		Goodbye.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, this is Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Virginia?
unidentified		I am in Greenville, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
unidentified		And I was very interested in the facts that you received earlier about the big leap to euthanasia against the patient's will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I happen to be a registered nurse, and this already has happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure it has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have been nurses arrested for what amounts to murder.
unidentified		This was what I would call murder by default.
		A patient that we had in the hospital that had essentially ruined his own life and had been in the hospital for many, many months and would probably would never be able to go home.
		We overheard the doctors in the hallway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I want you to stop your story right there because we're coming up on a break.
		So hold on through the break.
		It's our nickel.
		We'll hold you and come right back to you after the break, all right?
		Okay, stay right there.
		We've got a nurse's point of view on euthanasia.
		Or is it doctor-assisted suicide?
		Or is it murder?
		Now, we'll find out.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		We'll be right back.
		Get it all in the car, get it all in the car.
		Music You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here we are, live.
		That's right, live overnight talk radio, right here.
		Now, with sort of an international flavor, as we can get it going, the international line dial ATUSA Direct.
		Get that number, the AT ⁇ T USA Direct number, access number, then call 800-893-0903.
		800-893-0903 internationally.
		Now back to a young nurse.
		You're back on the air again.
unidentified		Yes.
		I wanted to understood that this was a 35-year-old man, the patient was.
		This happened at a university-affiliated hospital, a very, very well-known university with a very well-known doctor who made the decision.
		This man overheard the physicians in the hallway saying that they were no longer going to assist him when he was in a life and death situation with respiratory problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No heroic measures, yes.
unidentified		None.
		We're not talking about a comatose patient.
		We're not talking about a vegetable.
		We're not talking about someone who was about to die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was wrong with him?
unidentified		Well, he had abused alcohol and drugs and he had just ruined his body.
		His heart was in bad trouble.
		His kidneys were in bad trouble.
		And he accumulated a lot of fluid in his body, which essentially suffocated and drowned him.
		And he needed help very frequently from respiratory therapy to survive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they made a decision not to intervene.
unidentified		Right.
		He overheard this, and a nurse heard him crying in his room.
		And she went in to ask him what the problem was, and he told her that he was not ready to die.
		He did not want to die.
		He had heard what the doctor said.
		And she went to the doctors concerned and told them what the patient said.
		He didn't want to die.
		The doctor's response to this was to go to his chart and write DNR, which means do not die.
		Do not resuscitate.
		They called his brother, who was a minister, and told him the next time he got into trouble, they would not be resuscitating him.
		And within 24 hours, he was dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's quite a story.
unidentified		It's absolutely true.
unidentified		And if you like, I can send you a copy of the letter of protest written by the nurses because I wrote it on their behalf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would appreciate that.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really would appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you send that, please?
unidentified		I absolutely will if you'll give me the information.
unidentified		I don't know how to send anything to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you don't have a fax machine, do you?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then my address is Art Bell, Post Office Box 4755 in a strange name town.
unidentified		I've been by it.
		Oh, you have, Art?
		4755?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		4755, Perump, Nevada.
		P-A-H-R-U-M-P, Nevada.
		Zip code 89041.
unidentified		89041.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dash 4755.
unidentified		Dash 4755.
		Okay.
		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much, and I'll look forward to that.
		Well, that would seem to be, although we don't know the medical particulars, that would seem to be a bit of a slide down the slippery slope on the face of it.
		That brings up the opposite point of view.
		Somebody who wants to live, who wants to live, expresses a vocal desire to live and is denied the measures to attempt to achieve that.
		So that's a pretty serious story.
		And I don't want that, and you shouldn't want that, and nobody should want that.
		But I don't know that that changes my view, which is that the New York and Washington decisions were correct.
		We just have to be very careful.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
unidentified		This is Tom from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tom.
unidentified		Yeah, I was calling in regards to the acceptance of alien cultures coming into as far as that's concerned.
unidentified		I think right now you're right as far as people not accepting it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's test you a little bit.
		Let's say I'm an alien, the lead, I'm the leader of the lead ship of a large number of ships, and I come to Earth and I land, and I say, well, we've got news for you.
		We've figured out, we think you're ready.
		We are your creators.
		We created you.
		We did a lot of DNA work, which we continue to monitor and do today, and we created you.
		There is not, as you understand it, a God other than us, you know, the gray guys here.
		We did the work.
		We are your fathers and mothers.
		Now, how do you think that news would be greeted?
unidentified		It would be very devastating to a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or if I came down and regarded you as a potato chip, you wouldn't be real happy about it, right?
		Nope.
		So there are various possibilities.
		If I came down and I said, we're from the Pleiades, and we've been watching you for a long time.
		We've been around for thousands more years than you have.
		And we're just here to say hi.
		Even that would be extremely disturbing.
		So the Brookings report, in my opinion, is probably correct.
unidentified		Yeah, I totally agree with you on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, thank you.
		You know, Richard Hoagland holds another view, but I think that's more of his personal view.
		I think Richard Hoagland is ready, and a lot of other people are.
		And even I might be able to accept it, but I've been doing talk radio a long time, and I know there are a lot of people out there that are not ready.
		And I would presume that part of the decision that would be made by any alien culture would be to try to judge whether we are ready before they...
		If we found a planet, what do you think we would do if we found a planet that had man at about or just past the caveman stage or even a little further along?
		How would we handle that?
		What kind of debate would we have about whether we should or should not disturb their society, their civilization, whether we should help them, give them some of our technology, make them slaves?
		Oh, there'd be a great debate or just leave them alone, let them develop.
		I don't know.
		There would be a great, great debate.
		And so I would expect there would be one among any alien civilization, wouldn't there?
		Before contact.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		You know what I think we'd do if we were cannibals?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we were cannibals?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You know what we would do, don't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Well, we'd probably, if we didn't want to frighten them too bad, we'd probably abduct them every now and then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just have a snack every now and then.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You really have an interesting program.
		It really is thought-provoking.
		You're kind of hard to get through to, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where are you?
unidentified		I talked to you before, Malacca, north of Princeton, Minnesota, central Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		You ever been in that area?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one area I have actually never been in.
unidentified		I'll tell you, it's a beautiful, beautiful area.
		I've been all around the United States.
		I haven't been to Hawaii, and I keep coming back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's gorgeous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's still kind of cold up there now, isn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, it's about 10 degrees colder than normal, and it's been a cold winter all over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your temperature out there right now?
unidentified		I haven't heard for a while, but I suppose maybe 25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		25.
unidentified		Oh, maybe a little lower.
unidentified		25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long winters, yes.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it gets really cold here, but what about global warming?
unidentified		Well, what about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's been a very long, hard winter.
unidentified		That's what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's pretty hard to talk about global warming, right?
unidentified		Well, that's what I'm saying.
unidentified		It doesn't make sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe it's a new ice age.
unidentified		Well, that's really what they're throwing out there.
		I wanted to ask you one more question, Art.
		Have you changed your mind?
		I don't know if you recall talking to me, but have you changed your mind on Iron Mountain or Behold the Pale Horse yet?
		No.
		How long has it been since you've looked at either one of those?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's been a few years.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I don't know.
		It's pretty weird, but a lot of the stuff like the woman Sunday Night was, you know, it's all kind of strange, but you got something right.
		Something's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		Central Minnesota.
		Where there are long, long winters.
		It's got a light snow.
unidentified		Live there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art, I've had a strong desire, I have one, to comment on the right to die legislation being debated in our courts now.
		I feel very strongly the assisted, that assisted suicide should be legalized.
		I've got a personal outlook on the subject.
		My mother died when I was 15.
		Now, that may not seem like that big a deal, but when your father is a quadriplegic from an auto accident, your brother is legally deaf, it kind of stiffens the blow, if you know what I mean.
		It left me at 15 to care for my family.
		If anyone would want to hold on to their loved ones, it would be me.
		The horrendous amount of pain that not only my mother went through, but my family, was overwhelming.
		I slowly watched my mother lose her life.
		At the end, she had completely lost her cognitive and memory skills.
		Matter of fact, the cancer had eradicated her memory linearly.
		She forgot who I was, who my brother was, who my dad was, and I could go on with this, but I'm not.
		You see the road that he's going down.
		This deserves to be, I think, a great debate in our society.
		And I guess it's time that we had it, and these court decisions are going to rush that.
		Or this, as a physician trained in the field of anesthesiology, I can assure you Art, doctors can relieve terminal pain without killing.
		We have drugs a thousand times more potent than morphine that alleviate pain very effectively.
		Naturally, once administered, respiration must be supported.
		And this naturally becomes another issue.
		Who wants to die on a ventilator?
		Well, to the terminal patient who is out of it, it doesn't matter much to them.
		It all boils down to what a hospital or doctor wants to expend in terms of money and time.
		Once you allow doctor-assisted suicide, it becomes a matter of managed care to see to it, to save insurance companies and hospitals money.
		The doctors will have to provide this service or risk losing hospital privileges.
		If the doctor has steadfast religious or moral reservations about this, and Catholics definitely do, he could have his license pulled or his right practice as he or she sees fit taken away.
		Why do I say this?
		Because when my chairman told me to administer anesthesia for a therapeutic abortion and I refused, I came very close to losing my position on the medical staff.
		After all, since, in my opinion, abortion is done without medical necessity or taking human life, this is similar to assisted suicide.
		Love the show art, Dr. Joe in Scottsdale.
		So there you are.
		This is an issue, by the way, all over the world.
		In many parts of the world, in Scandinavia, for example, it's been worked out for a long time, and there has been, quietly, even though there it may not be legal, doctor-assisted suicide.
		It looks as though the U.S. is going to take this on as a major issue and try and make some sort of decision about it, and I'm definitely all for that.
		All right, back to it we go.
		We may line up a debate between a couple of you in the next hour with regard to this assisted suicide business.
		It's now going to go to the Supreme Court, and we are going to make a grand national decision, one probably as big and with as much impact as Roe v.
		Wade.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning to you.
unidentified		How are you today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		This is Andreas, the American Avatar from KOMO or KBI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		You know, a couple of things here.
unidentified		Did you hear about the child molester in Texas?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The one who had requested to be castrated and is now due to be released, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
		And now Bush boldly vows to place a 24-hour watch on the molester and tail him and do whatever it takes, spend more money.
		Why don't they just castrate him?
		He wants it.
		But turn him into a little puppy dog.
		That's a way to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, first of all, there's not a lot of evidence that castration would, as you put it, turn him into a little puppy dog.
		I'm not sure of him.
		Yeah, but let us first step back a little bit and see why he's committing these crimes.
		In other words, is it because of a sexual drive or is it a mental aberration that doesn't have a whole lot to do with sexual drive?
		That's a very important question.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, wouldn't counseling find that out if he went into therapy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really don't have answers to all of this.
		I think that the state of Washington had the answer, and I know it sounds awful, but they gave people like that man indeterminate sentences.
		In other words, they would just keep them in jail for as long as they thought they were a threat.
		Now, that sounds like a horrible thing, I know.
unidentified		If it works, why not try it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when you've got somebody saying, look, you let me out, I'm going to go molest another child, and I believe this man said, and then I'm going to have to kill the child, so it won't tell anybody.
		In other words, I'm going to do it again.
		He's saying right now, in jail, I'm going to do it again.
unidentified		But he wants to be castrated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, a lot of people also say he said that just to draw attention to his case.
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		I think, well, wait a minute.
		It works with, doesn't it work with animals?
		You have cats, don't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but we human beings commit crimes for a lot of different reasons.
		Witness the mother who strapped her children in the back of the seat and drove the car into the lake.
		You know, we have a lot of different motivations.
		Intelligence seems to add to the pile of reasons why we kill.
unidentified		And that little kitty that saved her little kittens one by one in the flames.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		She did that, and then people throw their children out the window.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Well, see, you just made my point.
		And so I'm not certain.
		I've always wondered about this, whether castration really would affect the behavior of somebody like that.
		I don't even know that that's true.
		It might if the drive were purely sexual, then it might.
		But I have this feeling that there is mental derangement that might make that crime completely eclipse what condition the plumbing happens to be in, if you follow me.
		I'm not sure about that, but rape generally is not thought of many times as a sexual crime.
		I mean, old women are raped.
		Not sexually attractive women, just old women.
		Why do that?
		It's a power trip, that's why.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, it's Scott.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Scott.
unidentified		I'm calling from Houston.
		Yes, sir.
		We just called in about that rapist guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That child molester?
		Yes.
		He had said, I found out on the news late tonight that they had said that they're remanding about just letting him out.
		They said that they're either going to go ahead and cast train him or they're going to send him off to a halfway house far away from Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a problem, no matter how you look at it.
		I don't know what they're going to do.
		Somebody just said your governor said he's going to put a 24-hour guard on the guy.
		Is that right?
unidentified		I haven't heard too much about that.
unidentified		I do know he was saying something about the indeterminate sentencing and all that, about how long it takes him to keep it in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Well, I heard him saying something.
		They're talking.
		I was in class today and my professor was saying something about that they might have to do something like that to change the books about this case because even if they do deny him his parole or whatever it is, that his time's pretty much almost up anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I heard earlier in the day they were reviewing his supposed good time to see if he really was eligible for parole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		If you said that he was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, okay, then.
		If you've got somebody who's saying he will go out and molest another child and kill that child, then the state of Texas, hard as it is, has an obligation because if it does nothing, it is then liable, I believe.
		If, you know, if something happens to a child, which inevitably it will.
		Thank you very much.
		That's what I heard.
		There would be a liability actually incurred by the state of Texas.
		And so it's not easy for Texas.
		I don't envy them this.
		Ah, modern America.
		Strange place, huh, folks?
		Strange time to be alive.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April
		2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is.
		And again, the only number not given there is our brand new international number.
		From anywhere in the world, anywhere in the world, you can dial your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number, then our international line, which is 800-893-0903.
		And for you, it will be toll-free.
		We pay from anywhere in the world.
		It is the first truly international toll-free line ever in existence.
		And we've got it.
		So there you've got it.
		That's how to do it.
		Call the AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number then 800-893-0903.
		Talking about many things.
		Assisted suicide because of the decision in New York and the Supreme Court case on the way.
		We're going to finally decide in this country.
		It's going to be a decision that will rival Roe v.
		Wade.
		The beating in Riverside County, California, that all of you should have seen no less than 10 times, if you're a newswatcher by now, your feelings about that.
		Somebody just sent me a top 10 excuses that police types will give to justify the beating in L.A. 10.
		We're only human.
		We make mistakes, 2.
		9.
		We put our lives on the line every day.
		It's only natural if we get out of line once in a while.
		8.
		The officer was in fear of his safety from the fleeing felon.
		7.
		Well, they put a lot of innocent people at risk.
		The police were just reacting to the way they were treated.
		6.
		In light of what could have happened, they were lucky they weren't hurt worse.
		5.
		The illegals were in full control of the situation.
		They brought those blows on themselves.
		4.
		In my X number of years as a law enforcement officer, I've never seen a police officer act like that in any way whatsoever.
		It just doesn't happen.
		3.
		I saw the tape.
		What it doesn't show is the felon reaching for what could have been a gun.
		2.
		Everything the officers did was within department policy for justifiable use of force.
		And, number one, if you ain't a cop, you ain't got no right to bitch.
		You're not the one out there day after day dealing with the scum and slime on the streets, so you can sleep safe at night.
		You ought to thank us.
		The 10 things that will be said, and that's not too far off the mark in a lot of cases.
		Or this.
		Art, the illegal alien beating by Riverside deputies bothers me greatly for several reasons.
		I'm a retired Border Patrol supervisor, 32 years on the job, who was in charge of several large Southern California stations between 1976 and 1990 when I retired.
		I was in charge of Indio, Colexico, El Centro, and then Campo.
		The Campo area is now the center of the alien and drug traffic.
		Campo was a five-man station when I joined in 1958, scheduled to be a 360-agent station by the end of the year.
		Shows you what's happening around here.
		There are twice as many officers in the San Diego sector as there were in the entire U.S. Border Patrol Force nationwide when I joined.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I say again, for the third and maybe last time tonight, as far as I'm concerned, what we should do is put up a wall.
		There's no magic about that.
		I've been saying that for years, a wall.
		And whatever electronic equipment we need to detect movement on our border.
		I'm not saying we should not let legal immigrants in.
		A, we should know who comes and goes, and B, we should know what they're bringing with them.
		No little backpacks of cocaine and so forth and so on.
		We have a right to do that.
		It's our border.
		We've technologically been able to do it since I was in Vietnam.
		I'm well aware of what we were able to sense there, and that was all those years ago.
		Imagine what we can do today.
		I'm not a subscriber to the U.S. being some sort of safety valve for Mexico.
		No, thank you.
		And even if you did subscribe to that, you still would have to say that we've got a right, a duty, to know who comes and goes across our borders.
unidentified		It's that simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if there's a big problem with people entering illegally, then we have every right to secure our borders.
		I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer.
		What has bothered me over the years is that our elected officials seem to have no inclination to want to do anything about it.
		All right, back to the phones in a moment.
unidentified		Three-man situation in Montana is still going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put up signs telling the press to please, they did use that word, stay away about a half mile.
		News today about the firepower.
		The inevitable.50 caliber machine gun is supposed to be there.
		Plus an explosives expert, and I guess they are very well armed and they're prepared to shoot it out.
		So that continues.
		Maybe more people in there than we originally thought.
		25 30 who knows then we've got the New York thing a decision by the Federal Appeals Court in New York about assisted suicide that one is going to the U.S. Supreme Court and America is going to have a great debate about this Hayart did you hear about the Anchorage DJ who started April Fool's Day rumors that the Atlantis space shuttle had
		been rerouted from its original destination and was scheduled to land at Elmendorf Air Force Base here in Anchorage.
		Well, anyway, about 200 fools gathered at the International Airport to try to watch the shuttle land.
		Boy, were they angry.
		Matt listening to KENI.
		I just found out that the judge, he says, B.S., that performed the marriage ceremony for me and my wife got recommended for a higher judgeship by Bill Clinton.
		Does this mean my marriage is invalid?
		I would say no, it doesn't, and such an impertinent question is likely to get you into big trouble, so I hope your wife wasn't listening.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Yes, I was calling to see what you thought about that art exhibit in Arizona.
		I believe it was Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Flag in the toilet.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Flag on the ground so you can walk on it, log in.
		What do I think about it?
		I think it sucks.
		So do I. I mean, what else do you say?
unidentified		And I think that it might have been a little different in, I guess, it was last year when that amendment was going to be passed to make it against the law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Against the law to desecrate the flag.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And I wish that would have passed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate your call.
		It's down in Arizona.
		And that's something else we can talk about is if we didn't already have enough, but, you know, I saw it.
unidentified		It sucks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they've got, they call it art.
unidentified		They call it art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the American flag is in a toilet.
		And it's supposed to represent the protest years with regard to Vietnam.
		But I'm sorry I saw it.
		I'm sorry I saw it.
		Now, I don't know about, I don't really necessarily support a constitutional amendment against flag desecration because, you know, to me, my protest is to just stay away.
		I wouldn't go to see that.
		I'm sorry I saw it on my television.
		And it just causes my blood pressure to rise and I get really angry.
		But I've thought about it.
		You know, a constitutional amendment, nah.
		These are fools.
		Just absolute fools.
		Anybody would do that.
unidentified		It's just disgusting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you want to know what I think about it?
		That's what I think about it.
		It's really disgusting.
		And it raises your blood pressure.
		And I guess that's exactly what it's designed to do.
		So, my way to protest it is I wouldn't go in there.
		They couldn't pay me to go in there.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		I just had a comment to make about aliens coming to Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I just thought Christianity needs to be shook up a little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does, huh?
unidentified		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you think it would be healthy for it?
unidentified		Well, I'm just tired of getting the Bible shoved down my throat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I feel a little that way myself.
		I'm kind of private about it.
		I talk about it if somebody asks me about it.
		But then everybody...
		I guess it's a natural instinct for people who are believers and have great faith to want to convert and explain so others might understand and be saved.
		But it's a little tiresome for the person being preached to all the time.
unidentified		Oh, don't I know it?
		I get preached to every night.
		I'm getting really sick of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I tried to tell Leonard politely a little earlier that despite his best efforts, it would have to be, if it's going to be, my own personal light bulb that goes off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he's not the guy with his hand on the switch, no matter what he says.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's well intended, but it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It makes you crazy.
unidentified		I have my own personal religion.
unidentified		It has nothing to do with anybody else's, and I kind of like it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine.
		I wouldn't argue with you.
		And if they had your phone number, you'd be sorry.
unidentified		That's exactly right.
		But I don't have a label for my religion.
		It's just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
unidentified		But on the euthanasia thing?
		Yes.
		I think it ought to be legalized, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's going to be over the great, loud objections of the Catholic Church.
unidentified		Well, it may be brought down a match or two, as far as I'm concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much for the call.
		We may do a debate on that subject.
		It's a good subject to debate.
		It's time we did it.
		Well, my website is going to be a little bit more.
		I'm going to be a little bit more.
		about that, so that's the name of that tune.
		right side up again today unless they forgot.
		Speaking of internet humor, here's some material for the show.
		These are the best and worst of country song titles.
		Note, all of them are real.
		Do you love as good as you look?
		Or how about this one?
		drop kick me Jesus through the goalposts of life.
		Is there really a song by that name?
		Drop, kick me, Jesus through the goalposts of life.
		Oh, get your tongue out of my mouth because I'm kissing you goodbye.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, all right.
unidentified		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Good deal.
unidentified		Say, talking about these legal aliens kind of brought something back to mind, which was the guest you had on Dreamland Sunday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Joy Skilberts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joy, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, I think it was a very good program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy, happy, Joy, Joy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She was very much enjoying her experience.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		She's a very articulate person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was very interesting.
		There was more reaction to that on both sides.
		And, of course, I get a lot of follow-up after any guest on Dreamland or even here.
		But on Dreamland, it's very intense.
		And I noticed that it was broken in half, the reaction.
		Half the people, like you, absolutely loved her, and the other half thought she was a total fruitcake.
unidentified		Well, yeah, that's one part of me.
		I thought she was very articulate and very interesting.
		The only thing I wanted to mention, there's just some things to her beliefs and what she was saying that just kind of really shocked me.
		And knocked me off my seat.
		And I was thinking, you know, I was thinking about the quickening, you know, and I feel, you know, as this quickening starts to quicken ever more so quickly, you know.
		Yes.
		I really believe there's going to be literally, you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people like Mr. and Mrs. Gilberts that came out sharing those beliefs, which I believe, you know, she pretty much stuck to a new age type of philosophy with the guise of extraterrestrials.
		And I think, hey, you know, when things start really getting out of hand all over the world, you know, with the quickening and to global proportions, hey, you know, I think we're going to need a way out, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I don't know that it is extraterrestrials, though.
		Thanks very much for the call, sir.
		I was, look, Joy Dreamland is a show intended to push the envelope in every direction.
		And that is what it will continue to do.
		And it has guests on there.
		Sometimes you're going to love them.
		Sometimes you're going to hate them.
		Sometimes you're going to think they're crazy.
		Sometimes you're going to think all kinds of things.
		It is a show very much like this one, only even more so, designed to push the envelope.
		And that's exactly what we do.
		We push the envelope in all kinds of areas.
		And we will continue to do that.
		So I know it's just right when I get 100 or 200 responses, just general comments on a show, and people either intensely loved it or intensely hated it.
		That means that we're pushing just the right buttons out there and doing exactly what we want to do.
		That show, this one too, will continue to be all over the map.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, Mr. Bell, you really hate.
		I don't know about you.
		But to kill, Mr. Bell, is to kill one made like God.
		And man is in God's image.
		And there's only one God, no other than Jesus Christ.
		None.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And your UFOs, Mr. Bell, they're just, that's the devil.
		The devil's child is science.
		And UFOs are demons or angels' work.
		And the devil, Mr. Bell, has made technology that your mind could never behold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop for a second, sir.
		You believe the devil is responsible for technology.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
unidentified		It's created for...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I understand from you where that began?
		In other words, technology began with fire or the wheel.
		Or, in other words, where did the devil begin to enter the picture when man first discovered fire or the wheel?
		Was that the devil's work?
unidentified		Well, it's all a lie, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, come on.
		I am asking you a legitimate question.
		Now, stop.
		Stop.
		You want to have a conversation?
		Or do you want me to leave the line?
unidentified		No, I said it began with the man.
unidentified		Man, man coming from monkeys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man coming from monkeys.
unidentified		Yes, that's your science, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not my science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is science.
unidentified		Well, like I said, it's the devil's child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All technology.
unidentified		Yes, yes, all of it.
unidentified		Some of it can be used for good, but when you're talking about UFOs, you're not talking about nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The statement you made was technology is from the devil.
unidentified		Yes, science is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		science is.
unidentified		We have all sorts of science things that will finish this earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about cars?
		What about automobiles, sir?
		Are they from the devil?
		Is that a close call, or is it the devil's work?
unidentified		I think it all is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It all is.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I appreciate your call.
		Thank you.
		Now, that seems to me that would represent probably the Unibomber's position.
		Wouldn't it?
		All technology is from the devil.
		All of it.
		And if there are any ships up there, they're from the devil.
		And this caller was sent from heaven.
		Because he absolutely proves what I've been telling you about the reaction to anything new, anything that he wouldn't understand, is either magic, witches of the devil, or all technology, beginning with the wheel forward, is the devil's work.
		Now, think about it.
		What do you think that man would do if they ever showed up?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		That's me.
unidentified		This is Lyra from Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hi.
unidentified		I wanted to speak about the sister suicide thing.
		Yes.
		I'm the mother of six, grandmother of 12, great-grandmother of four.
		Wow.
		And Revere Life.
		I never wanted to be anything but a mother.
		And I've had a real struggle with the abortion thing because although I don't believe in abortion personally, I have been involved with it a couple of times, and I vowed that I would not be involved again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		We're at a break point, and I will keep you on hold if you wish to be through the break.
		All right?
unidentified		Yes, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, mother of many and grandmother to even more, back after the break.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April
		2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Night tonight, we're gonna make it happen.
		All of us think about Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		I want to love you, feel you, wrap myself around you.
		I want to squeeze you, squeeze you.
		I just can't get enough.
		And if you do the real slow, I'll let it go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love this.
unidentified		I'm so tired.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Want to get the stuff going sometime, I'll tell you.
		Get a set of headphones and just let a little of this go.
		It'll absolutely give you a different outlook on life.
		Got a couple of more titles for you.
		Her cheating heart made a drunken fool out of me.
		Or, how can I miss you if you won't go away?
		I don't know whether to come home or go crazy.
		And then, and then this winner, don't want your body if your heart's not in it.
		All supposed to be country music titles.
		All right, everybody, one more item.
		Remember, our international line is open.
		They may be tinkering with it, and so we may not have it all the time.
		I don't know.
		It's being worked on.
		It's pretty much together, but there are blocks up, and we're trying to find out where it works and where it doesn't.
		Here's the way you do it.
		If you're in another country somewhere far away and hearing us on commercial radio or the internet or wherever you're hearing us, it doesn't matter, you can call us by calling the USA direct access number.
		Get it from your operator.
		She'll give it to you, or maybe you even have to call your operator.
		It doesn't matter.
		It's a free call, free internationally from anywhere in the world.
		Dial that USA direct access number by AT ⁇ T and then call 800-893-0903.
		Let me give it again.
		800-893-0903.
		And you're back on the air again.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		I would just want to make a few points.
		I feel that I'm deeply religious, have a lot of moral values, but I also agree with your last caller that Christians tend to try to force their beliefs on other people.
		And force is just as immoral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they feel compelled to do that.
unidentified		By persuasion, but not force.
		Persuasion's fine, you know, but we all should feel obligated to do that.
		So I don't think there's too much difference between the abortion issue and the assisted suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is, though.
unidentified		Well?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is.
		I mean, let's examine that a little bit because it is important.
		An abortion involves the ending of a life, if you believe it is a life, without choice.
		The assisted suicide question involves the informed decision of a person with a terminal illness to end their own life, not that of another.
		So there really is a difference.
unidentified		Yeah, the thing that really shocked me, a few years ago on public television, I watched a panel of doctors discuss, you know, the Hippocraticos and not being able to allow people to die.
		And then there were some nurses who came on and said, you know, that there are lots of children who are born that really cannot live, cannot accept nourishment for one thing.
		And the doctors, by the Hippocratic Oath, cannot terminate this child's life.
		They put those babies in the back of the nursery and let them slowly starve to death.
		Which we would not do that to our animals.
		Do you know what I'm saying?
		It was such a shock to me to think that their hands were tied.
		could not medicate these children or nourish them or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, this exact thing and several of the other calls that I've received tonight, I think, pretty much vindicate my feeling that it's time to have a national debate and make a national decision about this.
		In other words, if it's going to be done, there have got to be certain guidelines or the slippery slope is going to be sled upon and we're going to go sliding right down.
		So we have to decide as a nation, as a civilized country, whether or not we want to do this, and if so, under what conditions.
		Otherwise, we're just going to have this mishmash of everything from Kvorkian to private stuff to outrageous stuff to the guy who didn't want to die, whose doctors told him that they would not resuscitate him or he overheard that, that kind of thing.
		Unless there are guidelines, unless it is discussed openly.
		And I've vacillated about this because it's been done privately for years.
		But I guess it's getting to the point where there have to be some guidelines.
		And the only thing that's going to bring that on is a national debate on the issue and probably a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court.
		Not easy issues.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not easy at all.
		Look, I would very much like to do a debate on this subject.
		So let's have one.
		Here's how we do it.
		I would like somebody to call me right now.
		I'm going to give out some numbers and I'm going to screen the calls.
		And I want somebody who favors the right to die, truly favors the right to die, physician-assisted suicide, to call me at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		If you radically favor, you may even belong to the Hemlock Society or wish you did, really favor the right to die and would argue that at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		On all of the other lines, I want somebody who radically will argue the other way, doesn't believe in the right to die, thinks the whole thing is a slippery slope, part of the quickening, end of civilization, will lead to ovens where old people go and that kind of thing.
		If that's what you believe, then call me on any other line.
		You know the other numbers.
		And we'll do a debate here in just a few moments.
		Okay, I have not yet found my person who wants to argue who opposes the right to die, and that's what I'm looking for, so I'll just continue to do that right now.
		We've got somebody who favors it on the line.
		Hello there.
		Do you oppose the right to die?
		Oh, wait a minute.
unidentified		Wrong pot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you oppose the right to die?
unidentified		There.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now maybe you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you oppose the right to die, sir?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do.
unidentified		No one gave life and no one can take it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough.
		All right.
		What is your first name?
unidentified		Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dave.
		All right, Dave.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in west of Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of Portland, Oregon.
		All right.
		Let's go to our first-time caller line.
		And here's somebody who favors the right to die.
		What is your first name, please?
unidentified		John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		It's Dave and John.
		John, where are you?
unidentified		Klamath Falls, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Klamath Falls.
		All right.
		Two Oregon calls.
		Ha ha.
		The right to die is the question.
		Gentlemen, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, I believe that no one gave life, and according to my religious beliefs, I believe it's wrong to take life, and anyone that does is committing murder.
		Well, I respect your belief, and I also respect that it is your religious belief, and it is entirely your right to have that belief and to live your life accordingly.
		However, I am a citizen of the United States, which Constitution assures me that no person's religious belief shall interfere with my rights, and that the religious beliefs of any group, whether it be a minority or a majority, should not dictate the law of this land.
		Well, if everybody was like Dr. Kaborkin and could just make decisions on putting somebody out of their misery and terminating them life, everybody would be up or he would be up on murder charges and everybody else would.
		See, there's no basis for taking your own life or taking someone else's life under any circumstances as far as I'm concerned.
		And anyone who does that, according to what the Bible says to me, that's committing murder.
		Again, you're quoting the Bible and you're citing as your authority and your source for your belief the Bible.
		It was not the intention of the founders of this country to anchor the Constitution of this country upon any religion, whether it be Bible-based or any other basis.
		That's why I contest that, because our country was founded on the gospel and God.
		Clareback did Thomas Jefferson, Who quoted the Bible many times.
		That's what our Constitution was founded on.
		And people still lay their hand on the Bible when they go into the courtroom to swear upon the Bible that they will tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
		Everywhere you turn, you see God in this country.
		And I think it's just silly for people to go around because they think it's okay to take their life or aid in taking someone else's life.
		I don't see how they could have a conscience to rest at night time, to think about the life they've taken, or be a participant in any such matter like that.
		Well, I'm not aware that Dr. Kaborkian specifically has actually taken anyone's life.
		He may have assisted that only upon request of a person in a witnessed situation.
		Well, let's not be silly.
		Let's face facts.
		I don't think my statement is silly.
		I think my statement reflects facts.
		And I think if you will look at the record of trials that have been forced upon Dr. Kavorkian, every jury that has sat in judgment upon this man has agreed with me.
		These are a juries of 12 men and women, American citizens, who have looked at the facts, been presented all the information that the prosecutor could present, and the defense has in every case so far won.
		The mind of the people who have been asked to sit in judgment on this man has been that it is an individual's conscience and an individual's understanding of his or her own relationship with the God of their understanding and not with the God of your Bible, sir, or the God of your Bible as you understand.
		You made a misstatement.
		You said that Forkin didn't aid in the death of it.
		He set up the medicine.
		Now, you said earlier that he killed them.
		Well, sure he did.
		He put that needle into their arm and turned that medicine on into their body.
		He's killing them.
		When he put that exhaust hook up from the car, a mask over their face and turned that car on and says, go ahead and relax now.
		Everything's going to be better in a few minutes.
		He's killing those people.
		There's no other way around it.
		He aided in doing those.
		Some of those people couldn't even put the mask on their face.
		He did that for them, turned the gas on.
		I see, you're sitting in judgment on him as one individual.
		Well, no jury has agreed with you as yet.
		Well, the facts are the facts, and I'm sure there's people that will agree with you.
		I'm sure the juries have had the facts, have they not?
		Well, there's still cases pending, and he will be prosecuted eventually for murder.
		He's prosecuted for murder every time he turns around.
		He will be found guilty of it, and these other cases are pending, and he continues to go on this way of aiding people in their death.
		And who certainly is true to his beliefs?
		Well, when he executes people, he's just as much a murderer as people sitting on death row or in any other situation like that.
		So I'd say the Kaborkin is nothing more than a murderer, and anybody that takes their own life or aids in someone else's life is nothing but a murderer, and there's no other facts about it.
		That's just a plain fact.
		It was my understanding, sir, that the founder of your religion admonished people not to sit in judgment on others.
		Well, you know, like people say that energetically believing Christians really choose, and it's already been mentioned on this radio show tonight already, choose to spend their lives pointing fingers.
		No, the word judges.
		The word says, do not commit murder.
		Do not commit adultery.
		So on and so forth, the Ten Commandments.
		And it says, do not murder.
		And what does murder mean to you?
		Does that mean under certain circumstances it's okay to kill somebody, but according to what you think your philosophy is on it?
		Or how do you feel?
		You either take it for what it says or you disregard it altogether.
		My conscience tells me not to murder, and I expect never that I should murder.
		Okay.
		Well, then how can you sit there and condone what's going on with hating someone that's dying in?
		Basically, sir, I don't see it as being any of my business.
	Well, I do because I don't know.
	I know you do.
	And you should.
	You have a lot of Christian friends who stand beside you with that.
	But I do not relish the idea of living in a nation that is ruled by the opinions of a bunch of religious elephants.
	Well, let's get away from the religious fact of it.
	Murder is murder.
	If the country is murder sent to the matter.
	Why get away from it?
	People sitting on death rolls and murder people who are going to be executed.
	Yet this individual can go around and say, yeah, I'll help you.
	You want to die?
	Let's get the gas going here from the car.
	Let's go ahead and get some medicine injected into you.
	I'll set it up.
	I'll purchase it.
	I'll make the machine and I'll do it.
	And he's the executioner, is what he is.
	And there's no other way around it.
	He executes and kills these people, and he aids and beds it, and anybody else that does such things are just as guilty as he is, and there's no other way around it.
	Murder is murder.
	Well, I'm quite satisfied with the veracity of that last statement.
	I just don't particularly happen to agree with it.
	Well, you might not agree with it, but then you're disagreeing with the laws and the Constitution of our United States.
	No, that hasn't been the wisdom of any jury that sat in judgment on Kevorkian yet.
	As I said, and if you will also look to a little broader field, you'll notice that the assisted suicide law of the state of New York was struck down today by the U.S. Court of Appeals.
	But you see, if you want to know, sir, what the law of the land is, ask a court, because it is only the court that decides what the law of the land is.
	That's right.
	A lot of family members who have an anti-assisted suicide piece of legislation.
	They're being struck down at every opportunity.
	We can go in the state of Washington, just today in the state of New York.
	It also applies to Connecticut, I believe, another state back there, Rhode Island.
	You're talking about two things.
	You will find these laws falling by the wayside one by one as every court looks at them and throws them out the window.
	They could help murder that are very upset about this or are pursuing this in a very aggressive way.
	Have the family members of any person whom Jack Kavorkian has assisted been a part of any prosecution or witnessed against him?
	They've all been witnesses in his behalf.
	That hasn't been the case in some of the latest cases that the family members were upset that they went ahead and he assisted in the death of their family member and this is not going to be able to continue in our country with people at a free will setting up execution chambers to execute people and some of the people that he assisted weren't even close to death and that he assisted in their death and that's not right.
	Murder is murder.
	And if he's doing those kind of things, he's supposed to be a doctor, but doctors take an oath, in case you don't know it, to help save and preserve life.
	He's doing totally the opposite.
	He's like Dr. Jekyll and Hyde.
	He's two different people in one from what he represents himself to be.
	And doctors are never supposed to take life.
	They're supposed to assist in preserving and saving life.
	And you know that as well as I do.
	No, I don't.
	I don't know that as well as you do.
	Well, you should know that.
	Doctors don't take oaths.
	What do you think?
	They work in emergency rooms.
	Doctors all over this nation and all over the world have, from today back into time immemorial, assisted the grievous and terminally ill person to leave this life.
	No, they have been afraid of the people.
	They have been doing it forever, and it is only recently that you Christian zealots have become on this bandwagon to start shaking their fingers at people, choosing the time and manner of their own dying, which I think is entirely their prerogative.
	You have, in your judgmental and, let me say, somewhat limited range of vision, decided to start pointing and wagging fingers and sitting in judgment upon others.
	Well, I tell you what.
	You lie in violation of one of the prime instructions given to you by the founder of your faith, Jesus the Christ.
	As I mentioned, let's go away from the religious aspect of it.
	Let's go to the Constitution.
	The Constitution and the laws of the land say murder is murder.
	In any state of the union you want to go to, murder is murder.
	Murder once there is defining murder.
	Murder has taken some account of their life and citizens and such.
	Nobody has ever accused Jack Kavorkian in any legal court of law in this land of having committed murder.
	He has been accused in every case of committing murder.
	Not of murder.
	Yes, he has been.
	Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I'm going to change a little bit.
		In point of fact, he has been accused of murder.
		What you meant to say is he has not been convicted of murder.
unidentified		That's right.
		No, Art.
		He has been accused of violating the Michigan Statute Against Assisted Suicide.
		He's been accused of murder.
		Accused of murder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I believe he has been accused of murder.
		He has not been convicted of murder.
		All right, listen, gentlemen, we're going to have to break it off there anyway.
		We're out of time.
		Thank you both.
		Two people from Oregon, and that represents a pretty good cross-section, really, of opinion and the way people are looking at this right now.
		So there you go.
		That because of a federal appeals court decision in New York.
		It's moving that way.
		Now, it's going to move to the U.S. Supreme Court.
		That decision will be no less important, in my opinion, than Roe v.
		Wade.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		She's coming in 1235.
		The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide the towards our patients.
		I stopped an old man along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words or ancient melodies.
		I stopped an old man along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words or ancient melodies.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Arch Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I just noticed I'm not getting a dial tone on my international line, so there may be a slight glitch.
		Listen, we want you to give it a try, though.
		Keep trying to get through.
		If you're anywhere outside the country, this is, you know, still in the testing and development stage, but we are trying to get this international line going, and it sputters and goes, and I think adjustments are being made to it.
		But if you're anywhere outside the country, listening on the internet or any of our stations that reach far, far away, we have a toll-free line for you, completely toll-free, locked out of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico.
		So if you're way out there someplace, call us toll-free.
		I'm not so thrilled about this facts that I just got, and I want you to hear it because it points out what's going on now in this country, and it's not good.
		Since I was in kindergarten, it was jammed into my head that hating people because of the color of their skin, a religion, was wrong.
		It seems that people of color are not being taught the same way.
		The obvious lopsidedness of this issue is causing more and more anger in the white race, and all this anti-racist teaching is going to be for nothing.
		I worry, Art, my feelings toward other races have been changing over the past few years for the worse.
		And I'm not alone.
		This is not good for America.
		The left is creating what they claim to be fighting against, God help us, an angry white Republican in Napa Valley.
		Well, of course, he's right.
		Sadly, he's right, and I don't know what we do about it.
		I'll tell you something.
		The anti-immigrant, anti-color sentiment is growing worldwide.
		It's not just in America.
		It's everywhere.
		It's literally everywhere.
		Worldwide, in Germany, it always has been in Japan, in other countries around the world.
		Anti-immigrant sentiment is growing, not lessening.
		It's a problem everywhere, and it's producing nationalistic cliques of race haters, and it's just growing and growing.
		And I don't know why.
		You would think, you would think, wouldn't you, that in modern America or even in the modern world, that the trend would be going the other way.
		But it's absolutely not.
		It's getting worse.
		Anybody have any ideas on that?
		Shouldn't we all be getting consciousness-raising feelings?
		And shouldn't these feelings of prejudice be lessening, not increasing?
		But they're increasing.
		Why is it getting worse?
		Why in the modern world, with more communication, more understanding, is it getting worse?
		Anybody have any thoughts on that?
		It's a whale of a good question.
		Really is a good question.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello?
		Yes, hello, Mr. Bell.
		Hello.
		You know, I've never called a radio program before.
		I'm just an ordinary guy.
		I don't belong to anything.
		I'm just a grandfather.
		I try to make ends meet and play with my grandkids when I can and all that.
		You know, I've been listening to you for a long time.
		I work at night, and so I've been listening to you for a year or so.
		And I hear you constantly giving us all your opinions about a lot of things.
		And most of the time, sir, especially when it comes to the laws of this land, you're off the wall and out to lunch.
		You really are.
		I wish that you would take the advice, sir.
		Okay, give me an example of our founding.
		Give me an example.
		Well, you have a lot of opinions about our laws and our history.
		Give me an example.
		Every time somebody calls you who is obviously knowledgeable about our laws, you cut them off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not cutting you off, so I'm not cutting you off.
		Sir, sir, sir, I'm not cutting you off.
		I'm asking you to give me an example that we can discuss.
		Can you do that?
unidentified		Well, I could give you a thousand of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm only asking for one example.
unidentified		What I'm asking you to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm only asking for one example.
		Now, wait a minute now.
		Now, wait a minute now, sir.
		It's got to be a discussion, and you're not holding up your end of it.
		I'm willing to have a discussion with you.
		Give me an example of where I'm off the wall.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Well, I'll give you one.
		Okay.
		It's the first one I can think of.
		Okay.
		There are so many, you know, it's hard to keep track of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's hard.
unidentified		I wish you would give people time to have stuff to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm giving you time now.
unidentified		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said it's a republic.
unidentified		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Oh, yes.
		We are.
		No, sir, we are a representative democracy.
		That is a republic.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Well, yeah, that's foolishness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		However.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not a representative democracy.
unidentified		If you were to take our founding fathers' advice, all of them told us that we should, as citizens, as responsible citizens, if we wanted to keep our republic, that we should all become knowledgeable in our law and in our history and never forget it.
unidentified		If you were to do that, then you might go a little easier on these guys like in Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean that I would understand the freemen.
unidentified		The federal government attacks American citizens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		You might wonder where they get the jurisdiction to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think the FBI has jurisdiction to be in Montana right now?
unidentified		Where would they get that from, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I asked you, you think the FBI has no jurisdiction to be in Montana?
unidentified		Attacking American citizens?
unidentified		Because they claimed they wrote a bad check?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did they attack the people in Montana?
unidentified		Well, I think they're attacking them now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't hear the news.
unidentified		They're in a federal prison.
unidentified		That's what you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean that they've charged them?
		Well, yeah, if you write bad checks, you can be charged.
		That's absolutely correct.
		They threatened the lives of public officials, allegedly.
		They're charged with that.
		They're charged with all kinds of things.
		A conspiracy to kidnap?
		Don't you think that laws like that should be upheld?
unidentified		Well, I doubt that any of that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
unidentified		I really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wouldn't you think that the proper place to make that determination would be a court of law?
unidentified		What court?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What court?
unidentified		Yeah, the federal court?
unidentified		if necessary a federal grand jury you see sir if you are All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've had enough of that conversation, and I'm glad that I was able to finally drag it out from you and see where it is that you stand.
		Look, you can make excuses until the cows come home for these people in Montana if you want to.
		I strongly suspect you are nowhere near Montana.
		If you had bothered to listen, which obviously you haven't, last week, you would have heard probably, well, let me guess.
		Eight, twelve hours, twelve, thirteen hours worth of calls from Montana, from the people in Montana who are thanking God and the government that the FBI is there, that these people have been terrorizing the people of Montana.
		But you don't care about that, do you?
		You don't care about any of it.
		As far as you're concerned, people ought to do whatever they want, make up their own laws, huh?
		Doesn't matter if they violate the ones that we've got because they're not valid, are they, sir?
		Our laws aren't valid, are they?
		You're another one of these so-called patriots.
		You know, I think it's really screwed up and ruined the word patriot people like this have.
		Well, why don't you understand and understand about common law and understand that they can be completely autonomous, that they can be sovereign if they want to make up their own laws, banks, write their own checks.
		You know, that's such a load of garbage that I'm glad I was able to keep you on the line long enough to finally drag out from you what you're really all about.
		And you know what you're all about?
		You're all about the problem we're having, part of the problem.
		You are part of the problem.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		This is Andy calling from Minneapolis, St. Paul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Andy.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		You sounded like you got a little worked up over that last call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wanted to get, you know, he was just sort of generally, why do you cut people off?
		I don't cut people off.
		Well, and or I cut everybody off, depending on how you look at it.
		Why don't you understand the law?
		he said.
		And then finally we get around to, well, if you did, you'd understand that the free men are right.
unidentified		Can I give you what I heard in that conversation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		I heard something that has become extremely common today.
		And you asked earlier about why is racism and intolerance increasing when we have a culture where the dissemination of information is exploding.
		And at a moment's glance, you might think, well, this should allow us to be more educated and enlightened.
		And what I see over and over again, and especially with this last caller, is that a lot of people today seem to be extremely committed to their current opinions, even though they seem to be unable to substantiate them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it doesn't matter.
		It doesn't matter.
		And they will throw back general arguments like, well, if you understood about our founding fathers, if you understood about our Constitution, if you understood about common law, if you understood that the 16th Amendment was never ratified, I could really go on with a list.
		If you understood about the Federal Reserve, about our fiat money, I could make you a whole list.
unidentified		then you would understand what the freemen are doing yeah what interesting that you have them to give one example of a give one example in which What did you ask him?
		You asked him for one example in which you did not understand, you know, you had a failure to grasp laws.
		And you said, well, he said, well, there's thousands of them.
		And you said, well, just give me one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		You know, and this seems to be all too common, that people seem to be thoroughly tied up in their not necessarily religious convictions, but almost, it's almost a religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they've attached the name patriot to it.
		Now, if the name patriot was not attached to it, what would you otherwise call it?
		Simple lawlessness.
		That's what they're just simple lawlessness.
		But if you attach the name patriot, then it becomes almost a religious experience for a lot of people.
unidentified		Yeah, I think you're in a tough situation there because now that you've expanded your calling base to an international basis, I think you're going to get perspectives from, who knows, the Muslim community in the Middle East?
		You may get people calling in from Kuwait.
		Who knows where people will call from?
		And gosh knows who will be denouncing you next Wednesday night or what have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, if I was a pincushion.
		Anyway, I've got to take off.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		It's fine.
		It's what we're here for.
		Look, the fact that a lot of people are as this man so obviously was, just devoted to a cause that I believe firmly in my own mind that even he doesn't firmly understand because he couldn't really express it.
		There's no way to justify the complete flaunting of our laws and virtually anarchy.
		There's no way to justify it.
		So after a while, if they stay on the line long enough for you to draw from them what it is they really mean, then they begin to reveal themselves and they cannot explain themselves because how can you explain calling for complete lawlessness or condoning complete lawlessness?
		The only way you can do it is by saying, look, if you were a patriot, damn it, you'd understand all this and you're obviously not a patriot.
		Well, I'm not going to let that guy or anybody else attach that to me because I think I do have an understanding, a very good one, of what patriotism is and what it is not.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Is it our bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Hi, this is Geneva, and I'm from Medford, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Geneva.
unidentified		And I have never called a show before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		No, but I've been listening to you for the last couple weeks and I think you're really right on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well that's kind of you.
unidentified		Thank you.
		And I just thought you were getting a bum wrap tonight.
		Oh that's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, it's what makes my life.
		If I didn't enjoy doing this, I wouldn't do it, huh?
		I really love it.
		And when they start getting in my face, I like it even better.
unidentified		Well, this is it, you know.
		Well, you know, I just wanted to call about that thing with Dr. Kvorkian.
		Sure.
		You know, I've been raised a Christian, and I still have Christian views.
		I don't go to church actively, but I'm fairly versed in the Bible.
		And we don't live in a perfect world.
		And when we don't live in a perfect world, it's really hard to, how do I want to say it, you know, come to these conclusions.
		But, you know, we keep people alive.
		When you play God in the beginning, then it almost forces us to play God in the end.
		And I think Jack Kvorkian is right on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		I think that his cause is right on.
		I don't think Jack Kvorkian is right on.
		I think that is not the way to do it.
		I think that we must have a conversation with ourselves about the end of life and people's rights and people's individual choice.
		It's not the same argument as the abortion argument.
		The abortion argument involves, for those who oppose abortion, the taking of a life, because they believe it is that, of a human being that is not part of that choice.
		That delineates very clearly for me the argument about the end of life, only that individual making the choice.
		There is an easy and very large gap to be seen there in the arguments.
		They are separate arguments as far as I'm concerned.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
		A patriot is one who loves and zealously supports his country.
		That's Webster's definition.
		However, the question then arises, what is his country?
		Is it the government?
		Is it the people?
		Is it family and friends?
		Is it a compound in Montana?
		Apparently, we're becoming a nation of many countries, each with its own patriots.
		It's all very scary, my friend.
		That's Dennis in Kansas City.
		Right on, Dennis.
		Very scary.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		I'd like to clarify a word that you used.
		You called him a patriot.
		He's more on the lines of a parrot.
		Well, he just repeats his theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
unidentified		You know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mindlessly.
		Well, I thought it would be worth examining what the word patriot really means before we lose it altogether, because it's being attached willy-nilly now to anybody who hates the government, doesn't want to pay taxes, or won't move out of a house because they're not paying their mortgage anymore, or writes bad checks.
		Are these patriots?
unidentified		I wouldn't think so.
		I would think of more of veterans of 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam, even in the Gulf, Pigasco would be more on the lines of true patriots standing for their country and representing what their country means.
		And also the taxpayers that are out here making ends meet and paying taxes and everything else.
		That's more of a patriot than some guys that think that making your own laws is okay, because it isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Actually, right now I'm in Seattle somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Seattle somewhere, in your car, I guess, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, in a truck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I appreciate your call.
		And I would add to that, what about the people out there just working every day?
		The people with families who go to work and struggle and try to be productive and pay taxes and want the best for their children and try to send their children off to a college.
		Try to achieve the American dream, which I guess is trying to improve things for your children.
		Have a reasonable, safe, reasonably safe, anyway, life.
		Try to participate in your community at a local level.
		I mean, what is a patriot?
		Most people, I think, are patriots.
		Most people are patriots.
		And I think that right now that word is being subverted.
		It's being subverted to mean somebody who is not interested in the present laws of this land, not participating in our civilization, not adhering to its rules, somebody who has given up on the system and wants to tear it down and want something else.
		Is that a patriot?
		We better stop and think a little bit about what a patriot really is.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
		Music by Ben Thede
		Music by Ben Thede
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Art, the so-called Patriots in the Montana standoff give true patriotism a slap in the face.
		As I understand it, these people have been pulling off a major scam for the last few years.
		Even the founding fathers realized that a centralized government was a necessary evil.
		Articles of Confederation bound the states loosely from 1776 until 1789 when the Constitution was ratified, providing for a stronger federal government.
		This was due to the fact that each state levied its own tariffs, coined its own money, and in general made its own rules.
		Due to the difficulties of maintaining a cohesive union under this arrangement, the Founding Fathers saw the necessity of strengthening the federal government.
		As added protection against an oppressive tenancy by the government, the Bill of Rights was added.
		If only the politicians would follow these rules.
		Without a framework of laws, there is anarchy, a situation in which no one benefits except the hooligans and riffrath.
		Thank you.
		Or this.
		Dear Art, our founders were mostly Christian, but they did not all agree on what the Bible said.
		They don't today either.
		Jefferson even tried his hand at editing the Bible and getting rid of what he thought was not needed for the salvation of man.
		That's from Paul in Honolulu.
		Well, me, I think the Constitution works for everybody, whether or not they worship this God or that God or the God or any God.
		The Constitution works for the American people, or at least it should.
		That's how I view it.
		And so I don't think that people who are Christian or any other faith have any special protection or should under the Constitution, but rather that everybody who is a citizen of this country enjoys those protections.
		And onerous as it may seem, even illegal immigrants, and it's a whole separate subject, but even those people enjoy the protection afforded by the Constitution.
		They do.
		Even though they're not citizens, that doesn't give anybody the right to beat them up.
		It doesn't give anybody the right to take their life without due process.
		In other words, they have all of the protections that we do.
		Now, having said that, we should stop and have every right to stop illegal immigration.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, all right.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shall we dance?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I tell you, you had a hot show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just what we do.
unidentified		Yeah, I tell you, I'm an RN.
unidentified		This is Stephen St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I've seen people that are in real bad shape in critical care units just wanting to die.
unidentified		And for anybody to think they have the right to refuse that, I think that some of their family should be placed in that situation and they might think twice about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I just look at it as an individual decision.
		And as long as somebody is making it with mental faculties intact, I mean, we don't execute crazy people and we don't allow crazy people to commit suicide because they're not making a rational decision.
		As long as a person has their mind working and they're making a rational decision, then I think it's their life.
unidentified		And I'm working that side of the coin now also.
		Right now I'm a head nurse at a state psychiatric center.
		And that's true.
		We don't let these people make that kind of decision.
		We don't discharge them out into the street by themselves where they won't be taken care of.
		And you're absolutely right.
		Those decisions are usually made by competent people along with their family and physicians.
		Sure.
		I just wanted to call.
		I can't believe I got through finally.
		Just listening to you for about a year, work nights, and your show's pretty good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		It is whatever it is on any given night.
		I have one, only one very strong opinion about talk radio, and that is that it should be whatever it is, whatever it happens to be, and that will vary widely from night to night.
		This is not a cookie-cutter formula talk show, as you may have decided if you've been a longtime listener.
		It's just call us toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
unidentified		I want to make several points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Cut me off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't understand what you're saying.
unidentified		Oh, my name is Rafael from Bakersfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Bakersfield, all right?
unidentified		I want to make several points.
unidentified		I'm saying, first, don't cut me off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll make that decision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me hear your points.
unidentified		Okay, first of all, the founding fathers, when they created this country, trying to do it, they were running away from religious oppression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So this country was founded on the principles of freedom.
unidentified		Separation of the state and the church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, freedom of religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That means freedom to worship in any way you want or not at all.
unidentified		Right.
		So those that say that this is a Christian country are wrong.
		It was created with the trying to make it no religion whatsoever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The correct line is the majority of people in America are Christians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
unidentified		Yeah, that's true.
unidentified		But the principles of this country are not Christian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		All right.
		Second point I want to make is about the right to life.
		I don't want nobody to cut my life no matter what my condition is.
		All right?
		So.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but maybe you would like to make the decision yourself.
unidentified		At that time, yes.
		Okay.
		But right now, I think that it's difficult for anybody to try to make a decision for somebody else.
		So those that are opposing, you know, I think are not putting themselves in the right position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, thank you.
		Now you're cut off.
		I am not in favor of anybody making a decision about anybody else.
		I don't think you can do that.
		That's part of the way down the slippery slope.
		Unless you have assigned that ahead of time and you become critical, you're the only one.
		It's your life.
		Remember the movie, Whose Life Is It?
		Anyway, it's Your Life.
		And you don't want sons and daughters making decisions about moms, dads, grandfathers, etc., etc., etc.
		You don't want that.
		I don't want that.
		I don't know of very many people that want that, period.
		But if you're of sound mind and your mental faculties are still in order, then you can make your own decision.
		And I am in favor of that.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Dan in the U District.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing fine.
unidentified		I'm really glad to hear you handling these people the way you are to set them straight on this stuff going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not setting them straight, Dan.
unidentified		Well, it's a good attempt.
unidentified		I know that some people want to stay ignorant, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, however, revealing.
		And if they stay on the line long enough to reveal what they're really all about, then, you know, Dan, I don't have to do anything.
		I just have to draw them out, and what they're about is obvious to even a casual observer.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, and the same with these, you know, people who go off the deep end with the religious stuff.
		It's really, anyway, you're doing good, and I hope you don't lose your hard edge.
		I think you're hard, but fair, and there's nothing wrong with that.
		And did you know that the Roswell Daily Record ran a couple stories on that metal sample?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have both.
		Oh, you do.
		You got them.
		Front page.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
		Well, I'm going to send for both Thursday and Sundays.
		I think those were the days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a big story.
		And if anybody wants a photograph of the piece of alleged wreckage picked up and turned into the Roswell Museum, we've got that photograph up on my webpage.
		My webpage is www.artbell.com.
		That's www.artbell.com.
		And there is something of a story up there.
		I believe they put it up there.
		A little voice clip that you can download of my explaining all about it.
		So if you're able to download that, do it.
		We don't have the newspaper stories up there or anything, but I think there is a voice clip of me explaining about it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Rod in Simeon Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, welcome to the show.
unidentified		Yeah, you were talking earlier about the illegal immigrants and people that got beat up down by L.A. I saw that on a news lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, I've lived in Southern California my whole life, and I'm like a quarter Hispanic.
		Okay.
		And what I've noticed is like people that I run into that speak Spanish come to me and they, because I look like Hispanic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they get kind of like mad at me because they try to talk to me in Spanish and I'm like, I don't know.
		I don't speak Spanish.
		What are you talking about?
		And then when I get around white people, they think I'm a Hispanic and they treat me like, you know, it's like I'm stuck between two worlds?
		Yeah, I'm like stuck between Hispanic and American people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My wife has exactly the same problem.
unidentified		Yeah, and it's really weird because it's people, you know, unless you really know them, you run into a total stranger and you get treated like, you know, well, where am I at?
		You know?
		Yeah, I know.
		It's kind of weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I fully understand.
		My wife has the same problem.
		She's half Filipino, well, part Filipino, part Puerto Rican, part Chinese, and part Hawaiian.
		And so she looks a little bit of this and that, and wherever we've been in the Far East and in Spanish-speaking countries, people will always approach her and try to speak to her in their native tongue.
		And she speaks only English.
		So it's hard, I know.
		It's kind of living in the middle of both worlds.
		And I guess that's just a cross you're going to have to bear because of your appearance.
		And so you've got to figure out a way to bear it.
		It is hard, though.
		I fully understand.
		When we're in the Far East, particularly in Bangkok, everybody thought that she was a Thai and tried to talk to her, and it was tough.
		Anyway, we'll be right back.
unidentified		Square
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning to you.
unidentified		This is Diane from ABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Diane.
unidentified		I've got a song for you first.
unidentified		I've got tears in my ears from lying on back in bed crying over you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you heard me read some of those, Diane.
		I'm curious.
		Have you heard some of those in country music songs?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was a real list?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		They're outrageous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They really are.
unidentified		You heard the one I just told you.
		Yes.
		I wanted to talk a little bit about what happened out here with the freeway cakes, if I might please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might.
unidentified		Okay, so you have two sides of the story.
		They went 70 miles, sometimes going 100 miles an hour.
		Right.
		As they were going, they were trying to hit other cars To cause accidents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		And two of the people were interviewed already.
		One man had his brand new car for two hours and he got hit in the back in a fender.
		Another woman, they sideswiped her on the left side and knocked her into the right lane and then off to the shoulder.
		If somebody was there, she would have gotten wiped out.
		They were throwing beer bottles, tequila bottles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And parts of the truck.
unidentified		What they tried to do was take the shell off and throw the whole thing.
		But they couldn't.
		So they tore it up and started throwing parts out on the road.
		And this was going on for 70 miles.
		Right.
		So that is initially what happened here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is, Diane, a syndrome that occurs in a high-speed chase, particularly one as violent and dangerous as the one, this one.
		And that is that it's almost like shooting at a cop.
		I mean, they, in effect, were risking those lives, and there was a million terrible things that happened, and a million reasons for the cops to be highly ticked off at the driver and the other person in that vehicle.
		There were lots of good reasons, but not in the end, I am good enough to justify a beating when you had submission otherwise.
unidentified		Another thing is the woman that was in the truck they think now was involved with the smuggling.
		And they showed a picture on Tonight on Channel 2, or I should say last night, that showed her right after she was arrested and standing there with the other people and she was in perfect shape.
		I mean she was probably bruised, but she looked like there was nothing wrong with her.
		And then today when she was interviewed she was crying and stooped over and seemed to have all kind of problems.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was probably after she got to talk to her lawyer.
unidentified		That's right.
		And now the Mexican government is demanding that this is going to be heard by an international court.
		well they can demand whatever they want well things are pretty rough out here i think just one little thing might set it off with three million of them here now the people are kind of getting outraged at the whole thing well look whether yes okay diane I'm sure that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And with some reason, Diane, because having said all of the things you said, and you're right, and I even understand it, intellectually, I understand how unbelievably angry those policemen were.
		But whether it's Rodney King or a white guy or brown guys or any colored guys, there really is not justification to beat people up, period.
		Now, a baton may be used to achieve submission.
		It cannot be used to dispense street justice.
		It's just as simple as that.
		So you can say a million different things in defense of what the police did and in understanding how their adrenaline was pumping, why they were ticked off, their own lives had been at risk.
		None of it, though, justifies dispensing justice on the spot.
		And look, I've seen that thing a million times, and that's basically what it boiled down to was a sort of a dispensing of justice right there on the spot.
		And I'm not in favor of that.
		And none of what you said really justifies that.
		So hopefully the authorities, and it looks as though they are, will treat this quickly and fairly and justly.
		And if they do, then there should not be trouble.
		The trouble comes when there is no justice perceived.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Steve in Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		And I become convinced tonight and won over by the people who think that our founding fathers, you know, founded this Christian nation.
		And I think everyone should be Christian.
		Why?
		And I think only landowners should vote.
		And women should not be given the vote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as frequently as possible, barefoot and pregnant, right?
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		And we should all own slaves, too, like the founding fathers did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that you're consistent, Steve.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		And I'd like to put a bid on the guy who believes that technology is the work of the devil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Because I know he won't mind sleeping on a dirt floor or working out in the field with just a hand tool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know a couple things about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He had a radio.
unidentified		That's true, I know.
unidentified		I was going to say that, so Bryn Murray got in ahead of me there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He called us with some level of telephone technology.
		And then he was distributed throughout the world by the Internet.
		He's probably bashing his head against the blank stone wall, right?
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		If God would have wanted us to talk all over the world, he would have given us a cup and a string and talked to our mouth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, one of the best calls of the night, Steve.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If God had wanted us to do all that, he'd have given us a string attached to our ears with a cup.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		With Cusco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wisconsin, okay.
unidentified		With Cusco?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Have you played any of their new albums as bumper music?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How new are you talking about?
unidentified		I've got a Pyramid 1 and 2, and the second cut on a Pyramid 2 is just wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I know.
		I play it all the time.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
unidentified		But what are their new albums like?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		And they've got another in the, it's going to be a trilogy that's going to deal with Native American music.
		I'm really looking forward to that.
		It'll be a Pyramac 3.
unidentified		Oh, neat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, there's the secret for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Kenosha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kenosha, Wisconsin.
		All right.
		The LIP.
		Oh, the LIP.
		What a great set of call letters.
		I wonder if there's a CLIP, K-L-I-P.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		There might be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a W-L-I-P, so there ought to be a clip somewhere.
unidentified		All right, on your bumper music on your Friday night or Saturday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		You're, you're, My wife.
unidentified		O of Joy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Is that a whole CD or is that one cut?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called the O of Pleasure.
unidentified		O of Pleasure, okay.
unidentified		And who does it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's the Dreamland theme.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Ray Lynch.
unidentified		Ray Lynch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		Listen, you've got it.
		That's it.
		We're out of time.
		From Kenosha, Wisconsin, you know what to say.
unidentified		Good night, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Come on, you know what to say.
unidentified		This has been the Ed Balshaw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, America.
unidentified		Good night, America.

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