Art Bell dissects a Riverside County police beating of suspected illegal immigrants under FBI investigation, debating civil rights while dismissing Nazi sympathizers in Houston. A New York appeals court ruling on physician-assisted suicide sparks tension—Dr. Joe and callers clash over medical ethics, religious objections, and government overreach risks. Bell rejects "patriotism" as a shield for lawlessness, contrasting it with veterans’ loyalty, while a Montana standoff caller defends "freemen" sovereignty. The episode ends with Bell’s firm stance: justice must prevail, even amid cultural clashes like 70-mph freeway cakes chases and debates over America’s Christian roots. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and morning, as the case may be in all these many time zones now actually worldwide, and I'll talk a little more about that tonight.
Welcome.
Good to have you.
Coast to Coast AM is the show, but the coverage now is sort of worldwide.
It's actually amazing what's happened in this program.
Commercially, from the Hawaiian Islands, the Asian Islands, all the way across this great land, to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide via the internet.
I learned last night that real audio was down for a while on the internet, or if not most of the program, so there you are.
Our international line works.
AT ⁇ T has done it, folks.
And we learned that throughout the evening, last evening.
And we got it checked out from all kinds of locations around the world.
And we'll give it out now.
Along with the other numbers we have, we're now prepared to take free international calls.
I say again, free international calls.
We have right here, right here in front of my finger, the first truly toll-free international line in the world.
And AT ⁇ T did that for us, and I want to thank the AT ⁇ T, man.
They have worked their butts off.
And they actually did it.
They didn't even know if they could do it.
It was a challenge, and they took it up.
So we have an international toll-free line.
It will not cost you any money from anywhere in the world.
And the way you call it, now listen very, very carefully.
It may vary a little country to country.
In some countries, you're going to have to get the operator, like Hong Kong.
But in many countries, all you've got to do is call up your operator and get the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
Get it and dial it.
And then dial 800-893-0903.
It is going to take us a while, obviously, to develop this and for the word to get out.
The new international line is now up on the webpage as well.
But let me say it one more time.
If you want to call internationally from wherever you are in the world, you just toll free at that.
Just an amazing thing.
And I, again, boy, thank you, AT ⁇ T, for all your work.
Dial and all the nasty things I said about AT ⁇ T. Dial your AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number and then our 800-893-0903 number.
That's 800-893-0903 internationally when we begin taking calls.
Now, the videotaped police beating of two suspected illegal immigrants has sparked outrage in Southern California's Mexican-American community.
Trouble.
It's also drawn condemnation from Mexico and concern from the White House.
A statement from about everybody involved, Governor Wilson, who said it seems excessive force was used.
Two sheriff's deputies were captured on videotape, beating the suspects, and they've been now suspended.
It occurred in Riverside County, south of L.A., and I began to see this story breaking last night, but intentionally did not comment on it because it was simply too early.
We didn't have enough details.
We still don't have a lot, but we have a lot more.
It was, of course, a high-speed chase on a California freeway.
It was the police chasing a pickup truck, an open pickup truck, loaded with what seemed to be illegal aliens at speeds varying from 80 to 100 miles an hour.
It went on for an hour and a half.
Then the truck stopped, the immigrants scattered.
A man and woman who were in the truck were beaten with nightsticks.
The man receiving multiple bruises, possibly a fractured elbow.
The woman dragged from the truck by her hair and then beaten and beaten pretty hard with nightsticks.
All of this was caught from above, of course, in the tradition of Rodney King, by television cameras and replayed just like Rodney King was all day long with a nauseum.
I've seen that beating, I'm gonna guess, 15 times.
15 times.
It's being investigated by the FBI and two sheriff's departments.
The Riverside County Sheriff's Office is admitting they're embarrassed.
They put both deputies on paid leave, pending an investigation of the whole thing and charges.
In Washington, the Justice Department immediately moved, ordered the FBI in.
All the illegal aliens who you saw scatter in the video are now in custody.
They may be material witnesses.
Everybody with the Rodney King mess on the mind moved quickly to prevent possible civil rights violations and of course to prevent angry community response.
Nobody wants that.
Now the discussion going wild of course on talk radio is whether excessive brutality was used.
The ACLU properly is now wanting everybody to look into high-speed pursuits.
What they call the high-speed pursuit syndrome.
And I know exactly what it is.
Now you've got to bear in mind this was no minor chase.
It went on for an hour and a half.
The people in the pickup truck threw things at the police car, threw objects at the police car.
The people in the truck began to pull parts of the truck apart and throw it at the police car.
Two other innocent vehicles were sideswiped in the process.
Now, we can discuss the details of what occurred.
No question about it.
Police officers are human beings.
And when they've chased somebody for an hour and a half and people have been throwing things at them and trying to do violence to them and could have gotten them killed, and innocent people, by the way, I might add, could have been killed on the highway.
The problem is, once they were stopped, and I know the adrenaline by then is going crazy, the heart is beating 1,000 miles an hour, and you're so damn angry at whoever's in that truck and wouldn't stop that you're ready to spit.
And you do, with your baton.
So here's what I'm prepared to say.
You know, I've looked back over the years and I have participated in law enforcement not as a cop, you know, as a dispatcher.
And I know something about it.
And these cops are human beings.
They reacted to what was done to them.
Maybe the danger to citizens, to the adrenaline of the rush, all the rest of it.
Nothing justifies what they did.
Because it seems like the people were submissive.
Now, see, we couldn't hear what was going on on the ground, so we don't know what orders were being given and perhaps disobeyed.
We don't know the whole story yet, but it's pretty hard to deny that what we did see was not justified.
That amount of force did not seem to be justified, and that's my reaction, and I would assume that of most of you.
Here's Scott.
Hi, Art.
Just as the public's memory of Rodney King had begun to fade, the police in Southern California have shot themselves in the foot.
In doing so, they reopened the wound in the public's trust and once again have cast all police officers in a poor light.
In the seven years I've been in law enforcement, I've never carried a baton, nor have I needed one to subdue a suspect.
That's not to say they are not a legitimate law enforcement weapon.
Batons used in the manner in which they're intended are invaluable tools and often reduce the need to use lethal force.
Ironically, I was just issued a collapsible baton yesterday.
After a little soul searching, I've decided I'll carry it.
In the end, I have to trust in the training I've received and in myself to do the right thing.
If I can't do that, then I shouldn't be carrying a baton, let alone a gun.
So there you are.
Scott for the first time called the program yesterday.
And this from Joan in Thousand Oaks about Riverside, why isn't anybody addressing the safety and civil rights of all who were menaced by the illegals in the speeding, reckless driving, wreck-tossing truck?
Now, that surely is a fair question.
I mean, they tore across.
They began to wreak havoc.
They threw things, parts of the truck, sideswiped other cars.
There were a lot of lives in danger here.
By the way, it's just sort of loosely related, but I got this email and I thought you'd enjoy it.
Art, just a note about our immigration problem.
I am an agent at Brownfield Station, and almost all of the agents here listen to your show.
I can say one thing for certain.
Charlie is not an agent in San Diego.
Every agent around here hates him more than anything else.
Anyway, we are being overrun by aliens, and now the higher-ups are making us sit on exes.
In other words, one stationary spot, and we can't move.
So when we see aliens run by, we call it in, and maybe somebody in a backup unit can chase them.
I could tell you so many stories about behind-the-scenes action, or should I say, lack of it, in the San Diego sector.
That's, of course, part of all this.
Or another one, I've got lots.
I'm writing to you due to the current firestorm of controversy surrounding the police beating that occurred yesterday afternoon in Southern California.
I've watched the local and international news, and in every case, the top story is about this.
I am a former deputy Sheriff in Riverside County.
Now working for a federal law enforcement agency and was a classmate of Tracy Watkins, the deputy involved in the incident.
Tracy has loved being a cop so much he actually paid his own way through Southern California Peace Officers Academy.
Following graduation, hired by the Riverside County Sheriff and assigned to the Lake Elsinore Station.
I've never known Tracy to be heavy-handed, brutal, or unfair.
He's performed his duties for the last five years in a manner that served the people of the community and his department well.
30 seconds of a controversial videotape does not equal five years of service to his community, and this is being overlooked.
There is very little being said about the group of illegal aliens who were in the vehicle that was being pursued.
The vehicle had been running since it ran a border checkpoint at Temecula, which is located north of San Diego on Interstate 15.
It continued for about 80 miles until its conclusion with both the U.S. Border Patrol and Riverside Sheriff's Department involved in the chase.
The media is not showing the occupants of the truck throwing everything from beer bottles to destroying, then following the entire camper shell, then throwing the camper shell.
That's right, they were riding in at the police and other vehicles.
The driver of the truck was driving extremely recklessly and even rammed several vehicles in an attempt to cause an accident so they could avoid being caught.
So that gives you a little bit of perspective on all of this as you begin to prepare to comment.
And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of comment about it.
There's a lot of other news, and I'm just not getting through it fast enough.
In New York, a federal appeals court ruling on the right to die.
This is a very serious ruling.
The question is, what is a doctor's obligation to a terminally ill patient who wants to commit suicide?
Now, what is that doctor's obligation?
Answer from the Federal Appeals Court is that the court shall not ban doctors.
The Constitution does not ban doctors from the practice of helping patients to die.
Today's decision really leaves no doubt at all.
Physicians have a constitutional right in helping patients to die.
A constitutional right.
The court said, quote, listen to this.
Physicians do not fulfill the role of killer by prescribing drugs any more than they do by disconnecting life support systems.
The Catholic Church, as you can well imagine, is not happy about this, and they call it excessive judicial interference.
The whole thing now is headed to the U.S. Supreme Court.
So we shall see.
But I do believe that if you look at the decision in Washington, now New York, that there is going to be a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court that is going to rival in its controversial nature that of Roe v.
Wade.
This will be as big a decision in its own way as Roe v.
Wade.
And I would bet you the High Court rules and holds up the decision in Washington, now the one in New York, which basically legitimizes doctor-assisted suicide.
The focus of all this has been on Dr. Kay, right?
He's the guy who's grabbed the headlines.
But as I've told you right along, this has been an issue far bigger than Kvorkian.
Kevorkian is just one very public case.
In America, doctors behind the scenes and quietly and without all the hoop-law have been helping patients to die for as long as I've been around.
They do that.
It just occurs.
In other words, in the progress of a fatal disease, AIDS, cancer, whatever it would be, in the final stages, it gets to the point where the amount of medication the doctor must prescribe to truly take away the pain is very close to a lethal dose, you know, right on the edge.
And if the patient has that medicine around, obviously they can and do leave prematurely.
Choosing not to go through the final agonizing throes, the horrible throes, I might add, of a very painful death.
And I have been on the side of this for a very long time.
I know it's a slippery slope and I don't want to slide down, but I also see no reason to let people suffer.
Do you?
Do you?
Is there a reason?
My wife once told me there was, and I've been thoughtful about it, that a painful death is something that you are supposed to go through.
And if you're supposed to go through it, and I've thought and thought and thought about this, that in essence there's a kind of a bad karmic end if you take the easy way out and it will destine you to relive an even more difficult time in another life or another existence.
I don't know.
The other way of looking at it is that, you know, God intends for you to go through This it is part of your individual life cycle, and you should go through it and not shorten it.
So, I've been very thoughtful about it.
It's a very thoughtful topic.
I wonder what you think.
Late report on the Freeman quickly.
They've got a lot of firepower, I guess.
We're hearing now they've got a 50-caliber full machine gun.
Now, it may be somebody's got a license for that.
I don't know.
They haven't said.
But it looks like they've got a lot of guns there.
A lot of guns.
Plus, they've got an explosives expert, somebody who's worked with dynamite.
So, if it comes to blows, it will be big blows.
Okay, this is where we're going to break at the bottom of the hour.
We'll be right back.
I have yet a little more, and then off into Talk Radioville we go.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April
2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an Encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Guys, why don't we start out with a nice, moderate response to all of this?
Holy mackerel.
I'm going to tell you what I think.
It's the same thing I have always thought.
And here it comes.
I think the U.S. ought to build a wall.
I have thought for years and years the U.S. should build a wall.
We had the technology back in NAM to detect people crawling along a trail thousands of miles away.
They could sit in Washington and they could watch the traffic and tell you how many footsteps there were trotting along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in the dark of night.
I mean, we had that technology then.
Imagine what we've got now.
We have the power and have had it, not the will, to close our border.
And that doesn't mean keep all immigrants out.
That means simply know who cometh and goeth.
And if we would do that, we wouldn't have high-speed chases north of San Diego, past a checkpoint.
That kind of thing wouldn't happen because we would know who's on our highway.
And if they want to stop it, that's how they can do it.
Do we have a right to know who's bringing in cocaine and heroin, the majority of which comes from the Mexican border?
You're damn right, we do.
That's a federal area.
Our border is a federal area.
And we should erect a fence, a wall, an electronic barrier, whatever it takes, and then this kind of thing would not occur.
Or at least if it did, it would be damn rare.
So that's what I think.
Do I think excessive force was used?
Yeah, probably was.
There was probably no need to subdue them in that manner.
Although even there, there's a little bit of a question.
But anybody who watched the videotape can't be in great doubt.
Well, I've got a whole lot more here, but not more time.
So let me hit my international number one more time here, folks.
I'm kind of proud of it.
AT ⁇ T got the toll-free international line open.
So no matter where you are in the world, you can call us toll-free.
All you've got to do is call your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
And if you don't have it, you can get it from your operator anywhere in the world.
And then the following number.
800-893-0903.
And for you anywhere, it will be toll-free.
So get the word out.
Relatives, friends living overseas, let them know whether you're listening on one of our great 50,000-watt stations broadcasting from this country or anywhere else, you can call us toll-free now.
And how, you know, you might come back and have to do it again.
I perceive that along with Christian thought and Asian thought concerning karma, it's been very easy to point to the suffering as somebody's lot in life for their karmic debt.
But in reality, I see it as more profoundly a societal karmic debt that causes such suffering for the masses as being an overpopulation, et cetera, et cetera.
And, you know, I would, if it came to the conclusion about suffering at the end of death, I'm really unable to grasp for my own consideration the greater karmic thing that you're talking about with regard to society's behavior.
Well, the question is, the challenger here is whether you think, and I've really thought about this for years after my wife said it to me, we had to talk about it.
Whether you are meant, in effect, by God or nature or whatever it is, whether you believe there's going to be another life or whether you believe this one simply must be concluded in its totality, including the suffering at the end, whether it's karmically proper you go through that or it's okay to take a shortcut, bow out, say goodnight, that's it, I've had enough, I'm out of here.
unidentified
Well, I think naturally morphine's there to help alleviate suffering, and people are able to utilize what is here for that purpose.
There's been about 1,000 miles of water under the bridge since then.
what i would suggest to you we have the photographs on our website uh...
so you can get them there and take a look or you can wait and see them in our newsletter where they're going to be published one of the two There was talk of making them.
Yes, sir.
Yes, they did.
But one of the archive people who took care of the photographs came forward.
So yes, but I really can't fill you in on all of this.
Catch up with it on the website or our newsletter.
unidentified
I realize that.
I'm amazed that the networks, the major networks haven't picked this up.
We searched every corner of our house for this wildcat of ours, and he was not to be found.
Just when we were thinking, well, maybe he figured out a way to get outside, impossible though it seems, because we couldn't find him.
And so we went in and opened a drawer in a chest of drawers, and somehow, somehow, he had crawled up behind the chest of drawers and crawled into a drawer where he was curled up and happy.
When we opened that drawer, sir, true to his name, like a streak of orange, he came flying out of that drawer, and both of us just about had a total heart attack.
unidentified
Well, you know, I was trying to get through to you last night, and that was one of the places I was going to tell you to check, because my cat used to do that quite often.
That's the threat in the chest of, you know, where my clothes are.
Somehow I get in behind and get in the drawer from behind somehow.
When you have an opening to something, you have a special one-day invitation list of people, and then the general public gets to go the next day or something.
unidentified
Well, no, I had called that morning to make sure, and I asked them if it was open to the public today, and they said yes.
And when they got there, I guess the manager or the owner or whatever had a police officer come over and kick them off the property.
For the simple fact that they were proud white men.
We also have our new international toll-free, that's right, toll-free line.
No matter where you are in the world or how you're hearing us, you can call us toll-free.
And the way you do it is call your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
You can get that from the operator.
Just call the operator and ask her what is the USA access number.
And then after you do that, call 800-893-0903.
Once again, 800-893-0903.
That's our new toll-free international line, the first toll-free international line in the whole world.
There have been toll-free lines from certain countries to certain countries, but never have they opened up the entire world to toll-free calling.
It's cool, and it's working.
Dear Art, regarding the virulent and vicious anti-immigrant sentiments, how many of these good humanitarians want to pick crops?
I'd damn sure rather my tax dollars be used to educate the children of illegals than go to disgusting corporate welfare and obscene government waste.
Liberal sue in Illinois chiming in.
Well, yes, but we need not have the problem, as I explained last hour.
There's no reason why we can't control our borders.
We had the facilities, the ability to do that long, long ago.
And so that's the answer to the problem.
I mean, control the borders.
Know what comes and goes, who comes and goes.
It doesn't mean no immigrants to pick crops.
We've had a Bresario program and could have another.
We can let the people in we want in, no problem.
But we need to guard the borders.
Be a good mission for this president.
It would Be a very popular one, too.
Then this cops shouldn't lose control.
And yes, we do have rights.
We have rights to a secure border.
We have rights to safe roads.
And we have rights to an orderly society.
Right on, Mike.
And then the other issue we're talking about because of the New York decision.
Aren't doctor-assisted suicide has legitimate arguments, both pro and con.
But my fear, and maybe unfounded, is that how long is it going to be before the patient is not included in the loop for such decisions?
Would we have euthanasia?
What if we're forced into government-controlled managed health care by some future Congress via Clinton's wouldn't the government, maybe even Hillary types, be making this private decision intentioned for the family and their doctor?
Well, that is, of course, the bottom of the slippery slope, but I'm not sure that it's an absolute ride that would be taken.
It's a long jump between a patient's personal decision and somebody else making that decision for them.
That would simply add weight to their worthless claims.
What's in a name, Mart, the standoff between federal officers and the freemen in Montana is disturbing on several fronts.
The patriot jerks that have been defrauding merchants of bogus checks and generally being thorns in their neighbors' sides for more than a year, their arguments against law and order are specious.
That part said, I do not understand the reasoning that makes it permissible or desirable to send in the FBI and BATF in a media frenzy.
Average Americans write bad checks every day and don't risk such a reaction.
Yes, sir, but they don't threaten local law enforcement officials.
They don't defraud people.
They don't take people's farms.
They don't declare themselves to be sovereign when they are not sovereign.
We are a nation of states in a union, aren't we?
The United States of America.
So the way to solve this is not to agree with them that there are sovereign little fiefdoms and kingdoms within the United States.
No way.
West of the Rockies, you would have been on the air.
It's nice to hear from these little Japanese girls and others saying hi to their, obviously, to their American boyfriends.
But, you know, what if there's some wife out there, sitting out there someplace, who would hear some cute little Japanese girl call in from some unnamable prefecture saying hi to her husband?
Well, my roommate just had to write the number down, so he was so excited he got through, I was like, going, I don't have nothing I want to talk about tonight.
Well, I just read a really interesting article the other day here in the Indianapolis Star comparing hospice to Dr. Kvorki.
You know, and the hospice, I just had a cousin that passed away recently, and I wasn't there when she passed away, but I know that says in lieu of sending flowers, you know, give money to the organization hospice.
Sure.
And I didn't even realize that it was about exactly what it was about.
Well, it's not necessarily about assisted suicide, sir.
A hospice is a place where people go to spend their final days.
Although I suppose these issues are certainly present in a hospice.
In other words, as you increase the dose of painkiller or whatever required to control the pain, you get to the point where you're on the edge of a lethal dose.
unidentified
Right, right.
And I suspected that it was the fact that that was maybe what happened and possibly Julie passed away before the disease really would have actually took her.
Look, Dr. Kvorkian is just very public, but this is a far, far bigger issue and has been going on in this country for a long time, very privately, between physicians and families and patients, and everybody knows it.
It's just that we're now beginning to get court decisions that legalize it.
Legalize it.
We're in a very litigation-minded society.
And there had to be a decision about this made.
Now, the latest, of course, in New York, saying that a doctor has a constitutional right, a constitutional right to help a patient end it.
This is going to the U.S. Supreme Court.
The Catholic Church will find it every inch of the way.
So, Dr. Kvorkin is just a name that is presently at the head of this list.
And you really, really ought to know that it's going on all over the place anyway.
And so, I guess we've got to ask ourselves what we want in our society, whether we want a patient and a doctor to be able to make that decision legally or not.
Mr. Bell, the only way to gain a proper perspective on assisted death is to look into the eyes of a loved one who's lying there in pain, brought on by one of God's wonderful diseases.
Or be that person, Dave in Sarasota, Florida.
It's kind of another slash at God, huh?
Greetings from Memphis, just drifting off to sleep during the Dr. K debate.
One thing to add to the pondering.
Medical science has given us the ability to prolong life, which sometimes implies prolonging suffering.
Should an individual not have the right to be able to ease that suffering and end their own life, which may conceivably be artificially prolonged in the first place.
Euthanasia is fair game for those incapable of making their own decisions.
Why not for those who are capable?
Enjoy the show quite a bit.
Can't wait to upgrade my computer and catch you on video.
Well, one day, one day, one day, take about 60 feet of wire, put an insulator on the end of it, throw it up in a tree or, you know, up to another side of an apartment or whatever you've got there, and it'll go nuts.
I mean, you'll just hear ten times what you hear now.
My wife and I saw a movie in which it was a comedy.
It wasn't even a movie.
It was a comedy skit in which all animals turned against their owners.
And it was horrible.
Dogs and cats jumping on people's faces.
You know, and they're struggling to get the dogs and the cats off.
And all the animals in the world turned against their owners.
And even goldfish were leaping out of bowls and doing unmentionable things to people.
It was pretty funny.
Well, let me see.
What have I got to get done?
Do I have anything I've got to get done?
No, I think I'm clear.
Don't forget our new international line.
It's up and running.
It's totally cool.
Wherever you are in the world, we want to hear from you.
If you're listening on the internet in Europe, in Britain, in Australia, it doesn't matter where you are.
It's toll-free.
It won't cost you any money.
So call us.
Get the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number for America.
And then simply dial 800-893-0903.
Now, in some countries, like we found out yesterday in Hong Kong, you've got to call the operator, and she'll take the 800 number from you, and there'll be no charge.
What I'm calling about really is, um, I guess the president sent back the uh uh long uh where the babies aborted and uh close to being birthed giving birth late term abortion, right.
There have been nurses arrested for what amounts to murder.
unidentified
This was what I would call murder by default.
A patient that we had in the hospital that had essentially ruined his own life and had been in the hospital for many, many months and would probably would never be able to go home.
That's right, live overnight talk radio, right here.
Now, with sort of an international flavor, as we can get it going, the international line dial ATUSA Direct.
Get that number, the AT ⁇ T USA Direct number, access number, then call 800-893-0903.
800-893-0903 internationally.
Now back to a young nurse.
You're back on the air again.
unidentified
Yes.
I wanted to understood that this was a 35-year-old man, the patient was.
This happened at a university-affiliated hospital, a very, very well-known university with a very well-known doctor who made the decision.
This man overheard the physicians in the hallway saying that they were no longer going to assist him when he was in a life and death situation with respiratory problems.
Thank you very much, and I'll look forward to that.
Well, that would seem to be, although we don't know the medical particulars, that would seem to be a bit of a slide down the slippery slope on the face of it.
That brings up the opposite point of view.
Somebody who wants to live, who wants to live, expresses a vocal desire to live and is denied the measures to attempt to achieve that.
So that's a pretty serious story.
And I don't want that, and you shouldn't want that, and nobody should want that.
But I don't know that that changes my view, which is that the New York and Washington decisions were correct.
Let's say I'm an alien, the lead, I'm the leader of the lead ship of a large number of ships, and I come to Earth and I land, and I say, well, we've got news for you.
We've figured out, we think you're ready.
We are your creators.
We created you.
We did a lot of DNA work, which we continue to monitor and do today, and we created you.
There is not, as you understand it, a God other than us, you know, the gray guys here.
You know, Richard Hoagland holds another view, but I think that's more of his personal view.
I think Richard Hoagland is ready, and a lot of other people are.
And even I might be able to accept it, but I've been doing talk radio a long time, and I know there are a lot of people out there that are not ready.
And I would presume that part of the decision that would be made by any alien culture would be to try to judge whether we are ready before they...
If we found a planet, what do you think we would do if we found a planet that had man at about or just past the caveman stage or even a little further along?
How would we handle that?
What kind of debate would we have about whether we should or should not disturb their society, their civilization, whether we should help them, give them some of our technology, make them slaves?
Oh, there'd be a great debate or just leave them alone, let them develop.
I don't know.
There would be a great, great debate.
And so I would expect there would be one among any alien civilization, wouldn't there?
Before contact.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
You know what I think we'd do if we were cannibals?
Art, I've had a strong desire, I have one, to comment on the right to die legislation being debated in our courts now.
I feel very strongly the assisted, that assisted suicide should be legalized.
I've got a personal outlook on the subject.
My mother died when I was 15.
Now, that may not seem like that big a deal, but when your father is a quadriplegic from an auto accident, your brother is legally deaf, it kind of stiffens the blow, if you know what I mean.
It left me at 15 to care for my family.
If anyone would want to hold on to their loved ones, it would be me.
The horrendous amount of pain that not only my mother went through, but my family, was overwhelming.
I slowly watched my mother lose her life.
At the end, she had completely lost her cognitive and memory skills.
Matter of fact, the cancer had eradicated her memory linearly.
She forgot who I was, who my brother was, who my dad was, and I could go on with this, but I'm not.
You see the road that he's going down.
This deserves to be, I think, a great debate in our society.
And I guess it's time that we had it, and these court decisions are going to rush that.
Or this, as a physician trained in the field of anesthesiology, I can assure you Art, doctors can relieve terminal pain without killing.
We have drugs a thousand times more potent than morphine that alleviate pain very effectively.
Naturally, once administered, respiration must be supported.
And this naturally becomes another issue.
Who wants to die on a ventilator?
Well, to the terminal patient who is out of it, it doesn't matter much to them.
It all boils down to what a hospital or doctor wants to expend in terms of money and time.
Once you allow doctor-assisted suicide, it becomes a matter of managed care to see to it, to save insurance companies and hospitals money.
The doctors will have to provide this service or risk losing hospital privileges.
If the doctor has steadfast religious or moral reservations about this, and Catholics definitely do, he could have his license pulled or his right practice as he or she sees fit taken away.
Why do I say this?
Because when my chairman told me to administer anesthesia for a therapeutic abortion and I refused, I came very close to losing my position on the medical staff.
After all, since, in my opinion, abortion is done without medical necessity or taking human life, this is similar to assisted suicide.
Love the show art, Dr. Joe in Scottsdale.
So there you are.
This is an issue, by the way, all over the world.
In many parts of the world, in Scandinavia, for example, it's been worked out for a long time, and there has been, quietly, even though there it may not be legal, doctor-assisted suicide.
It looks as though the U.S. is going to take this on as a major issue and try and make some sort of decision about it, and I'm definitely all for that.
All right, back to it we go.
We may line up a debate between a couple of you in the next hour with regard to this assisted suicide business.
It's now going to go to the Supreme Court, and we are going to make a grand national decision, one probably as big and with as much impact as Roe v.
But when you've got somebody saying, look, you let me out, I'm going to go molest another child, and I believe this man said, and then I'm going to have to kill the child, so it won't tell anybody.
In other words, I'm going to do it again.
He's saying right now, in jail, I'm going to do it again.
I've always wondered about this, whether castration really would affect the behavior of somebody like that.
I don't even know that that's true.
It might if the drive were purely sexual, then it might.
But I have this feeling that there is mental derangement that might make that crime completely eclipse what condition the plumbing happens to be in, if you follow me.
I'm not sure about that, but rape generally is not thought of many times as a sexual crime.
I was in class today and my professor was saying something about that they might have to do something like that to change the books about this case because even if they do deny him his parole or whatever it is, that his time's pretty much almost up anyway.
If you've got somebody who's saying he will go out and molest another child and kill that child, then the state of Texas, hard as it is, has an obligation because if it does nothing, it is then liable, I believe.
If, you know, if something happens to a child, which inevitably it will.
Thank you very much.
That's what I heard.
There would be a liability actually incurred by the state of Texas.
And so it's not easy for Texas.
I don't envy them this.
Ah, modern America.
Strange place, huh, folks?
Strange time to be alive.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April
2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
And again, the only number not given there is our brand new international number.
From anywhere in the world, anywhere in the world, you can dial your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number, then our international line, which is 800-893-0903.
And for you, it will be toll-free.
We pay from anywhere in the world.
It is the first truly international toll-free line ever in existence.
And we've got it.
So there you've got it.
That's how to do it.
Call the AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number then 800-893-0903.
Talking about many things.
Assisted suicide because of the decision in New York and the Supreme Court case on the way.
We're going to finally decide in this country.
It's going to be a decision that will rival Roe v.
Wade.
The beating in Riverside County, California, that all of you should have seen no less than 10 times, if you're a newswatcher by now, your feelings about that.
Somebody just sent me a top 10 excuses that police types will give to justify the beating in L.A. 10.
We're only human.
We make mistakes, 2.
9.
We put our lives on the line every day.
It's only natural if we get out of line once in a while.
8.
The officer was in fear of his safety from the fleeing felon.
7.
Well, they put a lot of innocent people at risk.
The police were just reacting to the way they were treated.
6.
In light of what could have happened, they were lucky they weren't hurt worse.
5.
The illegals were in full control of the situation.
They brought those blows on themselves.
4.
In my X number of years as a law enforcement officer, I've never seen a police officer act like that in any way whatsoever.
It just doesn't happen.
3.
I saw the tape.
What it doesn't show is the felon reaching for what could have been a gun.
2.
Everything the officers did was within department policy for justifiable use of force.
And, number one, if you ain't a cop, you ain't got no right to bitch.
You're not the one out there day after day dealing with the scum and slime on the streets, so you can sleep safe at night.
You ought to thank us.
The 10 things that will be said, and that's not too far off the mark in a lot of cases.
Or this.
Art, the illegal alien beating by Riverside deputies bothers me greatly for several reasons.
I'm a retired Border Patrol supervisor, 32 years on the job, who was in charge of several large Southern California stations between 1976 and 1990 when I retired.
I was in charge of Indio, Colexico, El Centro, and then Campo.
The Campo area is now the center of the alien and drug traffic.
Campo was a five-man station when I joined in 1958, scheduled to be a 360-agent station by the end of the year.
Shows you what's happening around here.
There are twice as many officers in the San Diego sector as there were in the entire U.S. Border Patrol Force nationwide when I joined.
Put up signs telling the press to please, they did use that word, stay away about a half mile.
News today about the firepower.
The inevitable.50 caliber machine gun is supposed to be there.
Plus an explosives expert, and I guess they are very well armed and they're prepared to shoot it out.
So that continues.
Maybe more people in there than we originally thought.
25 30 who knows then we've got the New York thing a decision by the Federal Appeals Court in New York about assisted suicide that one is going to the U.S. Supreme Court and America is going to have a great debate about this Hayart did you hear about the Anchorage DJ who started April Fool's Day rumors that the Atlantis space shuttle had
been rerouted from its original destination and was scheduled to land at Elmendorf Air Force Base here in Anchorage.
Well, anyway, about 200 fools gathered at the International Airport to try to watch the shuttle land.
Boy, were they angry.
Matt listening to KENI.
I just found out that the judge, he says, B.S., that performed the marriage ceremony for me and my wife got recommended for a higher judgeship by Bill Clinton.
Does this mean my marriage is invalid?
I would say no, it doesn't, and such an impertinent question is likely to get you into big trouble, so I hope your wife wasn't listening.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
Hello.
Yes, I was calling to see what you thought about that art exhibit in Arizona.
And I think that it might have been a little different in, I guess, it was last year when that amendment was going to be passed to make it against the law.
And it's supposed to represent the protest years with regard to Vietnam.
But I'm sorry I saw it.
I'm sorry I saw it.
Now, I don't know about, I don't really necessarily support a constitutional amendment against flag desecration because, you know, to me, my protest is to just stay away.
I wouldn't go to see that.
I'm sorry I saw it on my television.
And it just causes my blood pressure to rise and I get really angry.
I guess it's a natural instinct for people who are believers and have great faith to want to convert and explain so others might understand and be saved.
But it's a little tiresome for the person being preached to all the time.
Well, I tried to tell Leonard politely a little earlier that despite his best efforts, it would have to be, if it's going to be, my own personal light bulb that goes off.
And he's not the guy with his hand on the switch, no matter what he says.
And, of course, I get a lot of follow-up after any guest on Dreamland or even here.
But on Dreamland, it's very intense.
And I noticed that it was broken in half, the reaction.
Half the people, like you, absolutely loved her, and the other half thought she was a total fruitcake.
unidentified
Well, yeah, that's one part of me.
I thought she was very articulate and very interesting.
The only thing I wanted to mention, there's just some things to her beliefs and what she was saying that just kind of really shocked me.
And knocked me off my seat.
And I was thinking, you know, I was thinking about the quickening, you know, and I feel, you know, as this quickening starts to quicken ever more so quickly, you know.
Yes.
I really believe there's going to be literally, you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people like Mr. and Mrs. Gilberts that came out sharing those beliefs, which I believe, you know, she pretty much stuck to a new age type of philosophy with the guise of extraterrestrials.
And I think, hey, you know, when things start really getting out of hand all over the world, you know, with the quickening and to global proportions, hey, you know, I think we're going to need a way out, you know.
Well, I don't know that it is extraterrestrials, though.
Thanks very much for the call, sir.
I was, look, Joy Dreamland is a show intended to push the envelope in every direction.
And that is what it will continue to do.
And it has guests on there.
Sometimes you're going to love them.
Sometimes you're going to hate them.
Sometimes you're going to think they're crazy.
Sometimes you're going to think all kinds of things.
It is a show very much like this one, only even more so, designed to push the envelope.
And that's exactly what we do.
We push the envelope in all kinds of areas.
And we will continue to do that.
So I know it's just right when I get 100 or 200 responses, just general comments on a show, and people either intensely loved it or intensely hated it.
That means that we're pushing just the right buttons out there and doing exactly what we want to do.
That show, this one too, will continue to be all over the map.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Yes, Mr. Bell, you really hate.
I don't know about you.
But to kill, Mr. Bell, is to kill one made like God.
And man is in God's image.
And there's only one God, no other than Jesus Christ.
Now, that seems to me that would represent probably the Unibomber's position.
Wouldn't it?
All technology is from the devil.
All of it.
And if there are any ships up there, they're from the devil.
And this caller was sent from heaven.
Because he absolutely proves what I've been telling you about the reaction to anything new, anything that he wouldn't understand, is either magic, witches of the devil, or all technology, beginning with the wheel forward, is the devil's work.
Now, think about it.
What do you think that man would do if they ever showed up?
I'm the mother of six, grandmother of 12, great-grandmother of four.
Wow.
And Revere Life.
I never wanted to be anything but a mother.
And I've had a real struggle with the abortion thing because although I don't believe in abortion personally, I have been involved with it a couple of times, and I vowed that I would not be involved again.
Want to get the stuff going sometime, I'll tell you.
Get a set of headphones and just let a little of this go.
It'll absolutely give you a different outlook on life.
Got a couple of more titles for you.
Her cheating heart made a drunken fool out of me.
Or, how can I miss you if you won't go away?
I don't know whether to come home or go crazy.
And then, and then this winner, don't want your body if your heart's not in it.
All supposed to be country music titles.
All right, everybody, one more item.
Remember, our international line is open.
They may be tinkering with it, and so we may not have it all the time.
I don't know.
It's being worked on.
It's pretty much together, but there are blocks up, and we're trying to find out where it works and where it doesn't.
Here's the way you do it.
If you're in another country somewhere far away and hearing us on commercial radio or the internet or wherever you're hearing us, it doesn't matter, you can call us by calling the USA direct access number.
Get it from your operator.
She'll give it to you, or maybe you even have to call your operator.
It doesn't matter.
It's a free call, free internationally from anywhere in the world.
Dial that USA direct access number by AT ⁇ T and then call 800-893-0903.
Let me give it again.
800-893-0903.
And you're back on the air again.
Hi.
unidentified
Oh, hi.
I would just want to make a few points.
I feel that I'm deeply religious, have a lot of moral values, but I also agree with your last caller that Christians tend to try to force their beliefs on other people.
I mean, let's examine that a little bit because it is important.
An abortion involves the ending of a life, if you believe it is a life, without choice.
The assisted suicide question involves the informed decision of a person with a terminal illness to end their own life, not that of another.
So there really is a difference.
unidentified
Yeah, the thing that really shocked me, a few years ago on public television, I watched a panel of doctors discuss, you know, the Hippocraticos and not being able to allow people to die.
And then there were some nurses who came on and said, you know, that there are lots of children who are born that really cannot live, cannot accept nourishment for one thing.
And the doctors, by the Hippocratic Oath, cannot terminate this child's life.
They put those babies in the back of the nursery and let them slowly starve to death.
Which we would not do that to our animals.
Do you know what I'm saying?
It was such a shock to me to think that their hands were tied.
could not medicate these children or nourish them or anything.
Look, this exact thing and several of the other calls that I've received tonight, I think, pretty much vindicate my feeling that it's time to have a national debate and make a national decision about this.
In other words, if it's going to be done, there have got to be certain guidelines or the slippery slope is going to be sled upon and we're going to go sliding right down.
So we have to decide as a nation, as a civilized country, whether or not we want to do this, and if so, under what conditions.
Otherwise, we're just going to have this mishmash of everything from Kvorkian to private stuff to outrageous stuff to the guy who didn't want to die, whose doctors told him that they would not resuscitate him or he overheard that, that kind of thing.
Unless there are guidelines, unless it is discussed openly.
And I've vacillated about this because it's been done privately for years.
But I guess it's getting to the point where there have to be some guidelines.
And the only thing that's going to bring that on is a national debate on the issue and probably a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Look, I would very much like to do a debate on this subject.
So let's have one.
Here's how we do it.
I would like somebody to call me right now.
I'm going to give out some numbers and I'm going to screen the calls.
And I want somebody who favors the right to die, truly favors the right to die, physician-assisted suicide, to call me at Area Code 702-727-1222.
If you radically favor, you may even belong to the Hemlock Society or wish you did, really favor the right to die and would argue that at Area Code 702-727-1222.
On all of the other lines, I want somebody who radically will argue the other way, doesn't believe in the right to die, thinks the whole thing is a slippery slope, part of the quickening, end of civilization, will lead to ovens where old people go and that kind of thing.
If that's what you believe, then call me on any other line.
You know the other numbers.
And we'll do a debate here in just a few moments.
Okay, I have not yet found my person who wants to argue who opposes the right to die, and that's what I'm looking for, so I'll just continue to do that right now.
Okay, I believe that no one gave life, and according to my religious beliefs, I believe it's wrong to take life, and anyone that does is committing murder.
Well, I respect your belief, and I also respect that it is your religious belief, and it is entirely your right to have that belief and to live your life accordingly.
However, I am a citizen of the United States, which Constitution assures me that no person's religious belief shall interfere with my rights, and that the religious beliefs of any group, whether it be a minority or a majority, should not dictate the law of this land.
Well, if everybody was like Dr. Kaborkin and could just make decisions on putting somebody out of their misery and terminating them life, everybody would be up or he would be up on murder charges and everybody else would.
See, there's no basis for taking your own life or taking someone else's life under any circumstances as far as I'm concerned.
And anyone who does that, according to what the Bible says to me, that's committing murder.
Again, you're quoting the Bible and you're citing as your authority and your source for your belief the Bible.
It was not the intention of the founders of this country to anchor the Constitution of this country upon any religion, whether it be Bible-based or any other basis.
That's why I contest that, because our country was founded on the gospel and God.
Clareback did Thomas Jefferson, Who quoted the Bible many times.
That's what our Constitution was founded on.
And people still lay their hand on the Bible when they go into the courtroom to swear upon the Bible that they will tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Everywhere you turn, you see God in this country.
And I think it's just silly for people to go around because they think it's okay to take their life or aid in taking someone else's life.
I don't see how they could have a conscience to rest at night time, to think about the life they've taken, or be a participant in any such matter like that.
Well, I'm not aware that Dr. Kaborkian specifically has actually taken anyone's life.
He may have assisted that only upon request of a person in a witnessed situation.
Well, let's not be silly.
Let's face facts.
I don't think my statement is silly.
I think my statement reflects facts.
And I think if you will look at the record of trials that have been forced upon Dr. Kavorkian, every jury that has sat in judgment upon this man has agreed with me.
These are a juries of 12 men and women, American citizens, who have looked at the facts, been presented all the information that the prosecutor could present, and the defense has in every case so far won.
The mind of the people who have been asked to sit in judgment on this man has been that it is an individual's conscience and an individual's understanding of his or her own relationship with the God of their understanding and not with the God of your Bible, sir, or the God of your Bible as you understand.
You made a misstatement.
You said that Forkin didn't aid in the death of it.
He set up the medicine.
Now, you said earlier that he killed them.
Well, sure he did.
He put that needle into their arm and turned that medicine on into their body.
He's killing them.
When he put that exhaust hook up from the car, a mask over their face and turned that car on and says, go ahead and relax now.
Everything's going to be better in a few minutes.
He's killing those people.
There's no other way around it.
He aided in doing those.
Some of those people couldn't even put the mask on their face.
He did that for them, turned the gas on.
I see, you're sitting in judgment on him as one individual.
Well, no jury has agreed with you as yet.
Well, the facts are the facts, and I'm sure there's people that will agree with you.
I'm sure the juries have had the facts, have they not?
Well, there's still cases pending, and he will be prosecuted eventually for murder.
He's prosecuted for murder every time he turns around.
He will be found guilty of it, and these other cases are pending, and he continues to go on this way of aiding people in their death.
And who certainly is true to his beliefs?
Well, when he executes people, he's just as much a murderer as people sitting on death row or in any other situation like that.
So I'd say the Kaborkin is nothing more than a murderer, and anybody that takes their own life or aids in someone else's life is nothing but a murderer, and there's no other facts about it.
That's just a plain fact.
It was my understanding, sir, that the founder of your religion admonished people not to sit in judgment on others.
Well, you know, like people say that energetically believing Christians really choose, and it's already been mentioned on this radio show tonight already, choose to spend their lives pointing fingers.
No, the word judges.
The word says, do not commit murder.
Do not commit adultery.
So on and so forth, the Ten Commandments.
And it says, do not murder.
And what does murder mean to you?
Does that mean under certain circumstances it's okay to kill somebody, but according to what you think your philosophy is on it?
Or how do you feel?
You either take it for what it says or you disregard it altogether.
My conscience tells me not to murder, and I expect never that I should murder.
Okay.
Well, then how can you sit there and condone what's going on with hating someone that's dying in?
Basically, sir, I don't see it as being any of my business.
Well, I do because I don't know.
I know you do.
And you should.
You have a lot of Christian friends who stand beside you with that.
But I do not relish the idea of living in a nation that is ruled by the opinions of a bunch of religious elephants.
Well, let's get away from the religious fact of it.
Murder is murder.
If the country is murder sent to the matter.
Why get away from it?
People sitting on death rolls and murder people who are going to be executed.
Yet this individual can go around and say, yeah, I'll help you.
You want to die?
Let's get the gas going here from the car.
Let's go ahead and get some medicine injected into you.
I'll set it up.
I'll purchase it.
I'll make the machine and I'll do it.
And he's the executioner, is what he is.
And there's no other way around it.
He executes and kills these people, and he aids and beds it, and anybody else that does such things are just as guilty as he is, and there's no other way around it.
Murder is murder.
Well, I'm quite satisfied with the veracity of that last statement.
I just don't particularly happen to agree with it.
Well, you might not agree with it, but then you're disagreeing with the laws and the Constitution of our United States.
No, that hasn't been the wisdom of any jury that sat in judgment on Kevorkian yet.
As I said, and if you will also look to a little broader field, you'll notice that the assisted suicide law of the state of New York was struck down today by the U.S. Court of Appeals.
But you see, if you want to know, sir, what the law of the land is, ask a court, because it is only the court that decides what the law of the land is.
That's right.
A lot of family members who have an anti-assisted suicide piece of legislation.
They're being struck down at every opportunity.
We can go in the state of Washington, just today in the state of New York.
It also applies to Connecticut, I believe, another state back there, Rhode Island.
You're talking about two things.
You will find these laws falling by the wayside one by one as every court looks at them and throws them out the window.
They could help murder that are very upset about this or are pursuing this in a very aggressive way.
Have the family members of any person whom Jack Kavorkian has assisted been a part of any prosecution or witnessed against him?
They've all been witnesses in his behalf.
That hasn't been the case in some of the latest cases that the family members were upset that they went ahead and he assisted in the death of their family member and this is not going to be able to continue in our country with people at a free will setting up execution chambers to execute people and some of the people that he assisted weren't even close to death and that he assisted in their death and that's not right.
Murder is murder.
And if he's doing those kind of things, he's supposed to be a doctor, but doctors take an oath, in case you don't know it, to help save and preserve life.
He's doing totally the opposite.
He's like Dr. Jekyll and Hyde.
He's two different people in one from what he represents himself to be.
And doctors are never supposed to take life.
They're supposed to assist in preserving and saving life.
And you know that as well as I do.
No, I don't.
I don't know that as well as you do.
Well, you should know that.
Doctors don't take oaths.
What do you think?
They work in emergency rooms.
Doctors all over this nation and all over the world have, from today back into time immemorial, assisted the grievous and terminally ill person to leave this life.
No, they have been afraid of the people.
They have been doing it forever, and it is only recently that you Christian zealots have become on this bandwagon to start shaking their fingers at people, choosing the time and manner of their own dying, which I think is entirely their prerogative.
You have, in your judgmental and, let me say, somewhat limited range of vision, decided to start pointing and wagging fingers and sitting in judgment upon others.
Well, I tell you what.
You lie in violation of one of the prime instructions given to you by the founder of your faith, Jesus the Christ.
As I mentioned, let's go away from the religious aspect of it.
Let's go to the Constitution.
The Constitution and the laws of the land say murder is murder.
In any state of the union you want to go to, murder is murder.
Murder once there is defining murder.
Murder has taken some account of their life and citizens and such.
Nobody has ever accused Jack Kavorkian in any legal court of law in this land of having committed murder.
He has been accused in every case of committing murder.
Well, I just noticed I'm not getting a dial tone on my international line, so there may be a slight glitch.
Listen, we want you to give it a try, though.
Keep trying to get through.
If you're anywhere outside the country, this is, you know, still in the testing and development stage, but we are trying to get this international line going, and it sputters and goes, and I think adjustments are being made to it.
But if you're anywhere outside the country, listening on the internet or any of our stations that reach far, far away, we have a toll-free line for you, completely toll-free, locked out of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico.
So if you're way out there someplace, call us toll-free.
I'm not so thrilled about this facts that I just got, and I want you to hear it because it points out what's going on now in this country, and it's not good.
Since I was in kindergarten, it was jammed into my head that hating people because of the color of their skin, a religion, was wrong.
It seems that people of color are not being taught the same way.
The obvious lopsidedness of this issue is causing more and more anger in the white race, and all this anti-racist teaching is going to be for nothing.
I worry, Art, my feelings toward other races have been changing over the past few years for the worse.
And I'm not alone.
This is not good for America.
The left is creating what they claim to be fighting against, God help us, an angry white Republican in Napa Valley.
Well, of course, he's right.
Sadly, he's right, and I don't know what we do about it.
I'll tell you something.
The anti-immigrant, anti-color sentiment is growing worldwide.
It's not just in America.
It's everywhere.
It's literally everywhere.
Worldwide, in Germany, it always has been in Japan, in other countries around the world.
Anti-immigrant sentiment is growing, not lessening.
It's a problem everywhere, and it's producing nationalistic cliques of race haters, and it's just growing and growing.
And I don't know why.
You would think, you would think, wouldn't you, that in modern America or even in the modern world, that the trend would be going the other way.
But it's absolutely not.
It's getting worse.
Anybody have any ideas on that?
Shouldn't we all be getting consciousness-raising feelings?
And shouldn't these feelings of prejudice be lessening, not increasing?
But they're increasing.
Why is it getting worse?
Why in the modern world, with more communication, more understanding, is it getting worse?
Anybody have any thoughts on that?
It's a whale of a good question.
Really is a good question.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
Hello?
Yes, hello, Mr. Bell.
Hello.
You know, I've never called a radio program before.
I'm just an ordinary guy.
I don't belong to anything.
I'm just a grandfather.
I try to make ends meet and play with my grandkids when I can and all that.
You know, I've been listening to you for a long time.
I work at night, and so I've been listening to you for a year or so.
And I hear you constantly giving us all your opinions about a lot of things.
And most of the time, sir, especially when it comes to the laws of this land, you're off the wall and out to lunch.
You really are.
I wish that you would take the advice, sir.
Okay, give me an example of our founding.
Give me an example.
Well, you have a lot of opinions about our laws and our history.
Give me an example.
Every time somebody calls you who is obviously knowledgeable about our laws, you cut them off.
If you were to take our founding fathers' advice, all of them told us that we should, as citizens, as responsible citizens, if we wanted to keep our republic, that we should all become knowledgeable in our law and in our history and never forget it.
If you were to do that, then you might go a little easier on these guys like in Montana.
Well, I've had enough of that conversation, and I'm glad that I was able to finally drag it out from you and see where it is that you stand.
Look, you can make excuses until the cows come home for these people in Montana if you want to.
I strongly suspect you are nowhere near Montana.
If you had bothered to listen, which obviously you haven't, last week, you would have heard probably, well, let me guess.
Eight, twelve hours, twelve, thirteen hours worth of calls from Montana, from the people in Montana who are thanking God and the government that the FBI is there, that these people have been terrorizing the people of Montana.
But you don't care about that, do you?
You don't care about any of it.
As far as you're concerned, people ought to do whatever they want, make up their own laws, huh?
Doesn't matter if they violate the ones that we've got because they're not valid, are they, sir?
Our laws aren't valid, are they?
You're another one of these so-called patriots.
You know, I think it's really screwed up and ruined the word patriot people like this have.
Well, why don't you understand and understand about common law and understand that they can be completely autonomous, that they can be sovereign if they want to make up their own laws, banks, write their own checks.
You know, that's such a load of garbage that I'm glad I was able to keep you on the line long enough to finally drag out from you what you're really all about.
And you know what you're all about?
You're all about the problem we're having, part of the problem.
I heard something that has become extremely common today.
And you asked earlier about why is racism and intolerance increasing when we have a culture where the dissemination of information is exploding.
And at a moment's glance, you might think, well, this should allow us to be more educated and enlightened.
And what I see over and over again, and especially with this last caller, is that a lot of people today seem to be extremely committed to their current opinions, even though they seem to be unable to substantiate them.
And they will throw back general arguments like, well, if you understood about our founding fathers, if you understood about our Constitution, if you understood about common law, if you understood that the 16th Amendment was never ratified, I could really go on with a list.
If you understood about the Federal Reserve, about our fiat money, I could make you a whole list.
unidentified
then you would understand what the freemen are doing yeah what interesting that you have them to give one example of a give one example in which What did you ask him?
You asked him for one example in which you did not understand, you know, you had a failure to grasp laws.
And you said, well, he said, well, there's thousands of them.
You know, and this seems to be all too common, that people seem to be thoroughly tied up in their not necessarily religious convictions, but almost, it's almost a religion.
Now, if the name patriot was not attached to it, what would you otherwise call it?
Simple lawlessness.
That's what they're just simple lawlessness.
But if you attach the name patriot, then it becomes almost a religious experience for a lot of people.
unidentified
Yeah, I think you're in a tough situation there because now that you've expanded your calling base to an international basis, I think you're going to get perspectives from, who knows, the Muslim community in the Middle East?
You may get people calling in from Kuwait.
Who knows where people will call from?
And gosh knows who will be denouncing you next Wednesday night or what have you.
Look, the fact that a lot of people are as this man so obviously was, just devoted to a cause that I believe firmly in my own mind that even he doesn't firmly understand because he couldn't really express it.
There's no way to justify the complete flaunting of our laws and virtually anarchy.
There's no way to justify it.
So after a while, if they stay on the line long enough for you to draw from them what it is they really mean, then they begin to reveal themselves and they cannot explain themselves because how can you explain calling for complete lawlessness or condoning complete lawlessness?
The only way you can do it is by saying, look, if you were a patriot, damn it, you'd understand all this and you're obviously not a patriot.
Well, I'm not going to let that guy or anybody else attach that to me because I think I do have an understanding, a very good one, of what patriotism is and what it is not.
I think that we must have a conversation with ourselves about the end of life and people's rights and people's individual choice.
It's not the same argument as the abortion argument.
The abortion argument involves, for those who oppose abortion, the taking of a life, because they believe it is that, of a human being that is not part of that choice.
That delineates very clearly for me the argument about the end of life, only that individual making the choice.
There is an easy and very large gap to be seen there in the arguments.
They are separate arguments as far as I'm concerned.
Well, I thought it would be worth examining what the word patriot really means before we lose it altogether, because it's being attached willy-nilly now to anybody who hates the government, doesn't want to pay taxes, or won't move out of a house because they're not paying their mortgage anymore, or writes bad checks.
Are these patriots?
unidentified
I wouldn't think so.
I would think of more of veterans of 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam, even in the Gulf, Pigasco would be more on the lines of true patriots standing for their country and representing what their country means.
And also the taxpayers that are out here making ends meet and paying taxes and everything else.
That's more of a patriot than some guys that think that making your own laws is okay, because it isn't.
And I would add to that, what about the people out there just working every day?
The people with families who go to work and struggle and try to be productive and pay taxes and want the best for their children and try to send their children off to a college.
Try to achieve the American dream, which I guess is trying to improve things for your children.
Have a reasonable, safe, reasonably safe, anyway, life.
Try to participate in your community at a local level.
I mean, what is a patriot?
Most people, I think, are patriots.
Most people are patriots.
And I think that right now that word is being subverted.
It's being subverted to mean somebody who is not interested in the present laws of this land, not participating in our civilization, not adhering to its rules, somebody who has given up on the system and wants to tear it down and want something else.
Is that a patriot?
We better stop and think a little bit about what a patriot really is.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Music by Ben Thede
Music by Ben Thede
Thank you.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 2nd, 1996.
Art, the so-called Patriots in the Montana standoff give true patriotism a slap in the face.
As I understand it, these people have been pulling off a major scam for the last few years.
Even the founding fathers realized that a centralized government was a necessary evil.
Articles of Confederation bound the states loosely from 1776 until 1789 when the Constitution was ratified, providing for a stronger federal government.
This was due to the fact that each state levied its own tariffs, coined its own money, and in general made its own rules.
Due to the difficulties of maintaining a cohesive union under this arrangement, the Founding Fathers saw the necessity of strengthening the federal government.
As added protection against an oppressive tenancy by the government, the Bill of Rights was added.
If only the politicians would follow these rules.
Without a framework of laws, there is anarchy, a situation in which no one benefits except the hooligans and riffrath.
Thank you.
Or this.
Dear Art, our founders were mostly Christian, but they did not all agree on what the Bible said.
They don't today either.
Jefferson even tried his hand at editing the Bible and getting rid of what he thought was not needed for the salvation of man.
That's from Paul in Honolulu.
Well, me, I think the Constitution works for everybody, whether or not they worship this God or that God or the God or any God.
The Constitution works for the American people, or at least it should.
That's how I view it.
And so I don't think that people who are Christian or any other faith have any special protection or should under the Constitution, but rather that everybody who is a citizen of this country enjoys those protections.
And onerous as it may seem, even illegal immigrants, and it's a whole separate subject, but even those people enjoy the protection afforded by the Constitution.
They do.
Even though they're not citizens, that doesn't give anybody the right to beat them up.
It doesn't give anybody the right to take their life without due process.
In other words, they have all of the protections that we do.
Now, having said that, we should stop and have every right to stop illegal immigration.
And I've seen people that are in real bad shape in critical care units just wanting to die.
And for anybody to think they have the right to refuse that, I think that some of their family should be placed in that situation and they might think twice about it.
Well, I guess I just look at it as an individual decision.
And as long as somebody is making it with mental faculties intact, I mean, we don't execute crazy people and we don't allow crazy people to commit suicide because they're not making a rational decision.
As long as a person has their mind working and they're making a rational decision, then I think it's their life.
unidentified
And I'm working that side of the coin now also.
Right now I'm a head nurse at a state psychiatric center.
And that's true.
We don't let these people make that kind of decision.
We don't discharge them out into the street by themselves where they won't be taken care of.
And you're absolutely right.
Those decisions are usually made by competent people along with their family and physicians.
Sure.
I just wanted to call.
I can't believe I got through finally.
Just listening to you for about a year, work nights, and your show's pretty good.
I have one, only one very strong opinion about talk radio, and that is that it should be whatever it is, whatever it happens to be, and that will vary widely from night to night.
This is not a cookie-cutter formula talk show, as you may have decided if you've been a longtime listener.
And if anybody wants a photograph of the piece of alleged wreckage picked up and turned into the Roswell Museum, we've got that photograph up on my webpage.
My webpage is www.artbell.com.
That's www.artbell.com.
And there is something of a story up there.
I believe they put it up there.
A little voice clip that you can download of my explaining all about it.
So if you're able to download that, do it.
We don't have the newspaper stories up there or anything, but I think there is a voice clip of me explaining about it.
Yeah, and it's really weird because it's people, you know, unless you really know them, you run into a total stranger and you get treated like, you know, well, where am I at?
She's half Filipino, well, part Filipino, part Puerto Rican, part Chinese, and part Hawaiian.
And so she looks a little bit of this and that, and wherever we've been in the Far East and in Spanish-speaking countries, people will always approach her and try to speak to her in their native tongue.
And she speaks only English.
So it's hard, I know.
It's kind of living in the middle of both worlds.
And I guess that's just a cross you're going to have to bear because of your appearance.
And so you've got to figure out a way to bear it.
It is hard, though.
I fully understand.
When we're in the Far East, particularly in Bangkok, everybody thought that she was a Thai and tried to talk to her, and it was tough.
There is, Diane, a syndrome that occurs in a high-speed chase, particularly one as violent and dangerous as the one, this one.
And that is that it's almost like shooting at a cop.
I mean, they, in effect, were risking those lives, and there was a million terrible things that happened, and a million reasons for the cops to be highly ticked off at the driver and the other person in that vehicle.
There were lots of good reasons, but not in the end, I am good enough to justify a beating when you had submission otherwise.
unidentified
Another thing is the woman that was in the truck they think now was involved with the smuggling.
And they showed a picture on Tonight on Channel 2, or I should say last night, that showed her right after she was arrested and standing there with the other people and she was in perfect shape.
I mean she was probably bruised, but she looked like there was nothing wrong with her.
And then today when she was interviewed she was crying and stooped over and seemed to have all kind of problems.
That was probably after she got to talk to her lawyer.
unidentified
That's right.
And now the Mexican government is demanding that this is going to be heard by an international court.
well they can demand whatever they want well things are pretty rough out here i think just one little thing might set it off with three million of them here now the people are kind of getting outraged at the whole thing well look whether yes okay diane I'm sure that's true.
And with some reason, Diane, because having said all of the things you said, and you're right, and I even understand it, intellectually, I understand how unbelievably angry those policemen were.
But whether it's Rodney King or a white guy or brown guys or any colored guys, there really is not justification to beat people up, period.
Now, a baton may be used to achieve submission.
It cannot be used to dispense street justice.
It's just as simple as that.
So you can say a million different things in defense of what the police did and in understanding how their adrenaline was pumping, why they were ticked off, their own lives had been at risk.
None of it, though, justifies dispensing justice on the spot.
And look, I've seen that thing a million times, and that's basically what it boiled down to was a sort of a dispensing of justice right there on the spot.
And I'm not in favor of that.
And none of what you said really justifies that.
So hopefully the authorities, and it looks as though they are, will treat this quickly and fairly and justly.
And if they do, then there should not be trouble.
The trouble comes when there is no justice perceived.