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March 27, 1996 - Art Bell

02:54:33

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Open Lines - Freemen

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 27th, 1996.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, or in some cases, good afternoon.
	And welcome to another edition of Coast to Coast AM live talk radio throughout the nighttime.
	And boy, have we got a lot to talk about tonight, but I've got something special for you first.
	Madman Bob, who went ahead and went to Taiwan, is now in Taipei, in Taiwan, and he's on my telephone.
	So, as I told you I might do, we're going to bring Bob up and say, I think it would probably be good afternoon to him in Taipei.
	Would that be right, Bob?
	Is it afternoon there?
	That's correct, Art.
	It's afternoon.
	It's tomorrow, too.
	It's tomorrow, sir.
	It's very interesting.
	It's Thursday here.
	So it's the afternoon of Thursday at about what time?
	Oh, it's about 5 after 3 p.m.
	uh... look at it five after three
	uh... yeah uh... late afternoon
	well by that it'll get we've got a little bit of a delay here is that we're
	gonna have to have a work with that it's uh... it's it's
	It's really, really good to hear your voice and to hear that you are safe.
	What is going on in Taiwan?
	Well, right now I think there's a general sense of relief.
	China has really, their move, the military actions really backfired on them.
	President Lee, who got elected, They had four candidates and he took a 54% margin.
	That only could be considered a landslide victory and a mandate that China is going to have to back down on their tactics and treat Taiwan a little bit different.
	So, I think everybody here is quite happy about that.
	It's a very complex situation, which is not over, and will be fodder for the news for a long time to come.
	Very good.
	Well, I understand that you're actually at the Sanjean, I guess, group of factories.
	It's not just one factory, but there are many factories there, and you've been getting the grand tour.
	Is that right?
	Oh, I got to see an 818 CS made from start to finish from the acquisition of all the little parts and the incredible machinery they have to, you know, to insert some of the surface mount parts onto the circuit board and watch them through, believe it or not, 25 quality testing steps before it went to the quality assurance.
	So I was, to say the least, very impressed with what I've seen here.
	Tell everybody what you told me about then quality assurance or quality control where they literally beat some of them to death.
	It was amazing.
	They have a choice group where the average tenure here is 10 years.
	And they went ahead and they pull, I believe, something like 32 out of 100.
	And they go through and inspect it, not only with a fine tooth comb, But it gets to the point where they're banging the radios, they take them apart, test them.
	There are so many oscilloscopes and frequency meters here to check to make sure that everything's tuned up perfectly.
	Uh, the Quality Assurance Group has the ability to pull everything back until the product's right.
	It's really professionally made from top to bottom.
	Unbelievable.
	So in other words, they, due to the radios over there, even a more, a rougher treatment, really, than the average consumer would voice on it.
	Well, yes.
	They have, uh, I'm just, the quality assurance program they have here is, I can't believe how high a level they have attained here.
	I really can't believe it.
	Alright, are you managing to party in between factory tours?
	Well, we've been partying.
	It's quite interesting to talk to the owner, Sonny, and Kevin followed us over here from San Jean, America, too.
	They've been treating us to some wonderful, we went to a wonderful temple today that was literally hand carved, the whole piece was.
	Mongolian barbecues, really different things.
	We haven't had snake yet.
	They promised me we'll have snake.
	After Bangkok, I wouldn't be surprised if you would eat a snake.
	We never did quite figure out what you ate in Bangkok.
	Well, I think I did, but I don't want to talk about it.
	Now listen, what is your itinerary from Taiwan?
	Where do you go?
	Oh, tomorrow we're going to tour the other side of the island.
	We have a smaller plane to fly over there with.
	We'll stay there two nights, come back, and then we're going to go to Hong Kong and stay overnight there briefly, and then we're off to Red China to see the factory in Red China, which is a totally different type of thing, which you might guess.
	They don't use all the modern equipment, and it'll be very interesting to see what we have here.
	Well, I hope you manage to get some good vacation into the middle of all this, Bob.
	Well, I think at the end we're going to somehow land in Singapore, so that's going to be for me and Sue.
	So we'll do that for a few days, and that's our vacation this year.
	We're looking forward to that.
	Alright, well, then remember you've got another vacation.
	It's not your only vacation this year.
	You're going to Scandinavia with us, remember.
	That's right.
	I have such a horrible life this year.
	I've always wanted to travel.
	Boy, I'm getting... All right, my friend.
	Take care of yourself, and we will be talking to you.
	Okay, that sounds good and all.
	By the way, since it's tomorrow, I can do a prediction for you.
	It's going to be a good day.
	Have a good one, Bob.
	Okay, goodbye.
	Bye-bye.
	That's Bob C. Crane in Taipei, Taiwan.
	And... I'm sort of jealous.
	Be a lot of fun to be there, but... Now, I guess they can only do that kind of a thing from a factory.
	That's amazing.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	You know, in the days of our parents, they never would have questioned government.
	Nowadays, people are beginning to say, you know what?
	Something's wrong.
	I'm not happy with this.
	I mean, what's going on here?
	Why are they so obsessed with trying to control us?
	Well, I personally think there are tremendous numbers of people out there who know they're not being told the truth, and no one is talking to us, so we need to help each other.
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	First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
	Just phenomenal knowledge.
	I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
	But, you know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, Do you think George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
	I think we do.
	I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
	And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
	It's going to be bumpy along the way.
	It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
	That's my take, and you know what?
	As long as I can continue on the earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast-to-coast AM from March 27th 1996 last night we devoted I would say
	the greater part of the entire program to what's going on in Montana
	and And, incredibly, it has moved to the top of the news calendar today with a vengeance.
	As a matter of fact, NBC did the first 10 or 12 minutes of their entire evening newscast on the standoff now in Montana.
	It consumed the first good ten minutes and and here's why.
	Let me quote NBC in their evening news.
	Quote, tonight the standoff between federal agents and a militia group, check that out, a militia group called the Free Men continues and today an NBC camera crew was caught in the middle.
	What appeared to be members of that militia confiscated a camera and videotape at gunpoint nobody was hurt but the situation which has been festering for months is moving to a new and possibly more dangerous level the freemen are heavily armed and outspoken about their hatred for all recognized legal forms of authority local state and federal end quote
	NBC suggested the Freeman had some pretty hefty shotguns with them, and their words appeared prepared to use them.
	NBC reports the following.
	This will clear something up.
	Ten to twelve people are believed to be inside the compound, including, they believe, women and children.
	I repeat, including, according to NBC, Uh, women and children.
	Tonight, or beginning this last evening, there began to be what are called rolling roadblocks.
	Now that's, I guess, not where they, uh, you know, throw something up across the road and stop you.
	It's where they roll up behind you, I suppose, and tell you you ought not be there.
	However, cars have been seen driving by.
	Local residents in Montana, in the area, ...are divided, but the great majority seem very happy that the FBI is finally there and prepared to do something.
	Now, the Freeman have been creating, according to NBC, havoc for two years.
	The local prosecutor there, believe this or not, has been threatened, including a million-dollar bounty, if somebody will bring him in to the Freeman for trial On their property, in what they consider to be their sovereign nation, I guess, within a nation.
	It is not known yet whether negotiations with the FBI have begun.
	They've got a sign up at the edge of their property that says, Justice Township.
	Then there's a little picture of a hangman's noose there.
	And it says, No trespassing.
	This means you.
	There is presently a news blackout over the whole thing.
	Janet Reno says the FBI will not storm the compound, but will wait them out.
	Now, this is the same language that I recall prior to Waco.
	We'll wait, I think the guy said, the FBI spokesman on the scene till hell freezes over.
	Is that what he said?
	And I thought they were going to, but as you recall, they didn't.
	Now, Montana Senator, I believe it's Max Braccus, was on NBC and interviewed, and he said, look, these are very dangerous men.
	And frankly, I'm glad, and the people in the area are glad, that the FBI is there and beginning to take charge.
	Now, they asked the Senator whether Montanans have been too indulgent of this activity.
	And I would ask you in Montana the same question.
	Do you think that the Montanans, people in the area, have been too indulgent, allowing all of this to go on for too long, unchecked?
	Now, NBC repeatedly used the phrase, or the word, militia.
	It was my clear understanding that this was not a militia, that the free men, so-called, are a, at best, a splinter group, may have been in a militia at one time, but are not a militia.
	Now, maybe NBC used that word because they lacked any other to describe the free men.
	I don't know.
	Or maybe they are a militia, and I was unaware.
	My guess is, they are not, should not be called a militia, and NBC had it wrong.
	But that's just my guess.
	Now, I have lots of questions.
	The first is, bearing in mind there are women and children reportedly there, And I said that the other night.
	Somebody called up and said, no, why don't you get facts straight?
	There are no women and children.
	Well, NBC says there are.
	But that doesn't mean there are.
	But we have reports there are.
	So I think you almost have to assume, until you know otherwise, that there would be women and children there.
	Now, if there are, this certainly bears, I think, on how most people would judge the situation ought to be handled.
	And I would really, really like to know from you in Montana and elsewhere how you think this one ought to be handled.
	Now the free men are claiming a great deal of support.
	In other words, that there are a lot of people out there that are going to rush to their aid.
	I haven't heard that yet.
	However, If the federal authorities are going to do as they say and wait until essentially hell freezes over once again they didn't say hell freezing over but said they will wait it seems to me very likely that the situation is going to become infinitely more dangerous because inevitably even if the mainstream militias do not come to their aid
	There's plenty of all those hot dogs that I've talked to you about on the fringe or outside militias or militia wannabes or militia claim-to-be's or people that are in fact going to grab guns and go to their aid.
	Now that will occur as more time and publicity ensues.
	And now that it's broken nationally, I mean you take the first quarter of a national newscast and devote it to this and say it's coming to a head and Even if it wasn't, it will.
	So, what do you think about waiting?
	In other words, as you consider how you're going to handle this, you've got to factor in that wait.
	Yes, women and children, yes, wait.
	But on the other hand, if you begin to get information, as we heard, you remember the congressional hearings on Waco?
	They said there that one factor that caused them to move, if you recall, Was that they had word that other militias, or that militias and groups, were headed down toward Waco.
	And that is what caused them to move.
	Is there justification in your mind for these actions?
	The ones being taken now by the FBI.
	And yes, I would like to hear from people in Montana.
	And in a lot of ways, I feel very sorry for the people in Montana.
	that they have to suffer uh... the reputation that's no doubt going to be uh... enhanced or foisted off upon them as a result of the the standoff that is now occurring up there and for some time montana for a long time montana idaho uh... even my state uh... but to some degree have all suffered uh... kind of a reputation of uh... lots of uh... fatigue clad gun types that are running around claiming uh... autonomy and sovereignty and the federal government can come here can't do that can't do this we've been regarded as kind of rebellious i suppose in montana right now is going to certainly suffer uh... that uh... reputation i wonder how people in montana feel about it and so i'm going to open my line my
	West of the Rockies line to people in Montana.
	No.
	Are you glad the FBI is there?
	Now you see, that's the image the media, the national media right now, is painting.
	That the people of Montana and the area surrounding Justice, J-U-S-T-U-S Township, are pleased the FBI is finally taking some action.
	And I thought it might be entirely worthwhile to actually take Sort of a survey of the people involved right there in Montana and find out if you guys are glad and gals.
	I've got some more I can tell you about the free men and I will in a moment.
	We're at the bottom of the hour so here we shall pause and invite Montana callers only.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	This is a story about a man named Art Bell. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a
	ship called the Sailing Ship.
	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor
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	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor
	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor
	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor
	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor
	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
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	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
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	that she's a black magic woman.
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	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
	I've got a black magic woman, got me something I can't see, that she's a black magic woman.
	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
	on a ship called the Sailing Ship.
	I've got a black magic woman, got me something I can't see, that she's a black magic woman.
	He was a sailor on a ship called the Sailing Ship. He was a I've got a black magic woman, got me something I can't see,
	Black magic woman, black magic woman, black magic woman.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Howdy, everybody.
	Good to be here.
	We're going to no doubt talk about the freemen in Montana.
	It's turning into a suddenly very large story.
	Listen, a side note before we get into things here.
	Um, there is a new video demo up.
	As you know, Bob Crane's been doing a video demo.
	I'm doing a video demo.
	And now the man who runs my bulletin board, John, here in Pahrump, is also doing a video demo.
	And it's up and running 24 hours a day now, and I'm gonna give you the phone number, so if you've got Davidian program.
	I mean, obviously, the only reason to call this number is if you've got Davidian program.
	Otherwise, it's going to be meaningless and a waste of money.
	But if you've got Davidian demo program and you want to see yet a third demo, it's kind of neat because John has his camera focused on the bulletin board system.
	With respect to the ongoing topic art, from your board op at 1120 KPNW, Eugene, These people who think they shouldn't have to pay taxes are crazy!
	We have the best military in the world.
	We pay less in taxes than other countries that have less security.
	We don't pay taxes on the use of our TV.
	We don't pay taxes on the use of our garden hoses.
	We don't pay tax for every screen we have on our windows.
	In summary, if these men don't want to pay taxes, They don't deserve to live in the best and most secure country in the world.
	Love it!
	Pay your dues, or get out!
	Darren, that actually came through last night, as a flood of faxes on this topic have all day long.
	Now, to Montana, I believe, Bozeman, Montana.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Thank you, Art.
	I guess I've been in the middle of this whole For about a year, I was there yesterday in the arraignment.
	They physically attacked me as I was talking to some of the reporters there and hauled me to jail.
	Who physically attacked you?
	Oh, the Deputy Sheriff, the U.S.
	Marshals.
	I don't know, there was about ten of them.
	Why did they attack you?
	Well, they said that there was a warrant for my arrest out of Bozeman, which there had not been.
	One, because I've been fighting... On what charge?
	Leaving the county.
	Leaving the county?
	No, that's not against the law.
	Well, I know.
	Come on now, don't just fluff over this.
	People don't issue warrants for no reason.
	Now, were you ordered to stay in the county because of some prior offense?
	Well, they were trying to say that yes, there was an order.
	That order, if you get into the situation Of the Emergency War Powers Act.
	I don't know if you're familiar with... Don't hit me with emergency war powers.
	Tell me... Well, it all ties into that.
	Alright, fine.
	But let's keep it so that we can all understand it.
	Why was there an order for you to remain in the county, or why did they say there was one?
	On what grounds?
	Well, I've been in contact with the Freeman fighting, I guess, Uh, unlawful acts, what I would consider, uh, from, you know, agents, uh, county government, uh, basically on the right to travel, and, uh, I was... Please, sir, nobody disputes the right to travel.
	Yeah, well, they do.
	Uh, no, they don't.
	Now, now, come on, you're not leveling with me.
	Why was there an order restricting you to remain within the county?
	There had to be a reason for that.
	Well, probably because they didn't want me talking to the freemen, okay?
	No, that's not legal either.
	Well, I know it's not legal, but we have a saying up here.
	Yes.
	That is, they can't do that, can they?
	And they do it, and they do it, and they do it.
	Anyway, that's kind of what drove Leroy.
	Leroy came twice, came from the same area, went through the same battles that I've been going through for a year on the right to travel.
	Again, you're being very, at the moment, disingenuous with us because you're not telling us what this is really about.
	Well, nobody, they can't order me to not leave the county unless I have done something to justify it.
	The order has to be based on something that I've done.
	Maybe I'm charged or I've been convicted of something or for a specific legal reason.
	Lay that out for us, sir.
	What is it?
	Well, I don't know... I guess I don't know what you're asking for.
	I'm trying to explain it as good as I can.
	Well, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to do better.
	Now, there is a specific... Let me lay it out slowly and easily so you can understand.
	There has to be a specific reason for any court order that would limit your travel.
	In other words, you would have had to have been convicted of something.
	I was not convicted of anything.
	You were not convicted of anything?
	No.
	What did happen was it stemmed from an issue of a no driver's license.
	Aha!
	So you had no driver's license.
	Well, yes, I did have.
	I mean, not at the time.
	I've been fighting this thing for a year.
	Finally, I decided, alright.
	I have, there are literally hundreds of Supreme Court cases and other cases that says that we have the right to travel without a license.
	Oh, now wait a minute, now wait a minute.
	A right to travel, see now, you can walk anywhere you want.
	Nobody's restricting your right to walk anywhere you want, but if you want to drive, it's true.
	The state says, and my state says, and every state says, you must have a driver's license.
	So, you were then taking the position that you don't need a driver's license.
	Is that correct?
	Well, that is correct.
	I have, like I just said, there are literally hundreds of different law cases going back to Well, I guess since we had automobiles and before that, that we could travel, we could use the right-of-way for our travel without license.
	One quick question for you.
	Do you pay income tax or do you believe that that is also unconstitutional and illegal?
	Well, Article 1 section uh... nine further will be no direct pat so now but now but
	later but later wait a minute here
	you're a lumping taxes well i'll tell you why uh... because how do you think the roads get there
	do you do you well in this state we pay fifty two cents a gallon
	for every gallon of
	gap or people feel that we put into our automobiles i don't know what it is in
	Yes, we do.
	Well, in every state, sir, and I presume in Montana, you do have interstate highways, do you not?
	Yes, I do.
	You do. How do you think those get there?
	What did I just say?
	You said there was a tax on gasoline, but not all of the money to build those roads, sir, nor many other roads,
	comes from only that tax.
	It comes from general revenues and the highway appropriations bill.
	Do you pay a tax on every battery, on every belt that you put on your car, on every tire, on every car, on every truck, on every trailer?
	It could go on and on.
	There are excise taxes.
	Those are lawful, legitimate taxes.
	In fact, if you read the Constitution, it says that the lawful taxes are excise taxes, import taxes, and imposed duties.
	Now, we ran this country for 150 years without income tax.
	And it says specifically in the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 9, I think, that there will be no direct tax.
	Now, they tried back in the early late 1800s, 1900s to get an income tax.
	Alright, I am familiar with the arguments against income tax.
	Do you consider yourself a free man?
	Yes.
	You do?
	Now, in conjunction with that, I would like to read a couple of definitions here.
	Alright, read me a definition of a free man.
	Okay, this comes... You can go to Black's Law Dictionary or Bouvier's Law Dictionary What is a free man?
	One who enjoys liberty or who is not subject to the will of another.
	That's the first one.
	Second, one who enjoys or is entitled to a franchise or peculiar privilege.
	That's from Webster's Dictionary, 1828.
	Which definition do you subscribe to?
	Well, these are all part of the same thing.
	Those two came out of Webster's, I guess.
	One who enjoys a peculiar privilege.
	That's an interesting definition.
	Then, in peculiar, it said, God's peculiar treasure.
	Holy Scriptures.
	I don't know what that is.
	But anyway, let's go to Black's Law Dictionary.
	A person in the possession and enjoyment of all civil and political rights accorded to the people under a free government.
	Does that word free government ring a bell?
	Yes, oh it does and I believe that ours is a free government as close to the definition that is of one as exists in the world and I've seen a lot of them.
	Okay.
	There's another one.
	Have you, sir, I've had enough definition.
	Have you been to other countries?
	Have you seen other governments?
	Oh yeah.
	You have?
	Which one have you seen that you regard as freer than ours?
	Well, you know, you hear that kind of argument all the time.
	Well, no, no, do I answer the question?
	I mean, it's a good question, sir.
	Yes, it is, and I'm going to try to explain that.
	It's a relative term.
	There's no such thing as total absolute freedom.
	There are rules and regulations wherever you go and whatever you do.
	So my question is, which government have you seen that would be freer?
	Well, I guess I could say this.
	I haven't been to China, but I just had a good friend who returned from there, and he considered, I mean, you know, they're free.
	No, they're not.
	They're free to go where they want to do what they want to do.
	No, they're not.
	They cannot own property.
	They cannot.
	Oh, geez.
	You know... You know, you better take... Alright, listen.
	I want to thank... I can't take any more time.
	No, wait just a minute.
	I have something that's very important that I'd like to get out to the public.
	Alright, get it out.
	This is what's going on with Leroy Twyford.
	He is currently in the Yellowstone County Detention Center.
	Yes.
	They are trying to book him in.
	And he is, I guess, exerting his constitutional rights not to be booked in.
	Right now, they have... What have they charged him with?
	Well, I guess he was one of the two that was arrested at the... I'm aware of that, yes.
	Okay.
	They... I guess writing bogus checks or whatever, that's their charge.
	I see.
	Well indeed, you can be booked on such a charge.
	I mean, that's...
	You can be booked if you allow yourself, but you don't have to be.
	That's another thing you've got to volunteer for.
	Alright, thank you very much for the call.
	What a bunch of tripe.
	So there is, I think, a fair and good example, and I'm glad we got it right here at the beginning of the program, of exactly what we're dealing with.
	With the mentality we're dealing with.
	You've got to volunteer to be booked.
	And which country is it that you see as freer than the U.S.? ?
	China?
	China?
	Of all the countries that he might have tried to pick, as an example of some of the sons who look as free as the United States, China?
	You are out of your free man mind, sir.
	I've been to Communist China.
	I know what China is, and there really is no other China, much as Taiwan would like to think otherwise, having just talked to Bob.
	There's Hong Kong, that's going back.
	And believe me, I've been to China, and that's just absolutely beyond the pale.
	You don't have freedom of movement in China.
	You don't have freedom of political expression in China.
	They never heard of anything called the First Amendment in China, and if they want to come search your house, brother, they don't need pieces of paper or court orders.
	They just come and do it.
	This man is mixed up.
	Really mixed up.
	Don't try to feed me that one.
	China is about as free as my cat Comet right now.
	Locked in the bathroom.
	Boy, holy mackerel, where do people come up with that kind of thing?
	China!
	China!
	Good Lord!
	Take a break from this for a second, then we'll go back to the phone lines.
	I'm holding my West of the Rockies line.
	That was really a good phone call.
	And don't get me wrong, sir.
	I appreciate your having called, but I don't agree with one word of what you said, except maybe with respect to some of the definitions of what a free man is.
	but freedom is a relative thing and I can assure you that relatively we have a
	hell of a lot more of it here than there is in China.
	The new version of the Coast to Coast AM app is here now available for Android as
	well as iPhone.
	For Coast Insiders, it offers the ability to download the most recent shows, so you can listen to them at your leisure.
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	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 27th, 1996.
	March 27th, 1996.
	I want to remind everybody that Richard Hoagland's photographs
	in a repaired condition, in other words properly posted, are now on the website.
	Be sure and see the Zond Russian photographs.
	They're quite impressive.
	I've had another communication from Mr. Hoagland.
	We'll get to that in due time.
	Lots and lots and lots going on this morning.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, how are you doing?
	Fine.
	Oh, wow, great.
	You know, it's been interesting, your show the last couple days about all this malicious stuff.
	Well, there was a free man on the phone here a few minutes ago.
	What did you get out of that?
	Well, you know, I think that hopefully in this country we're still allowed to be able to express opinion and go beyond what some people consider to be the norm.
	Well, I let them do that.
	Yeah, oh yeah, you certainly did a good job of that.
	I was curious, now, what do you think of this thing about this conspiracy to take over the world with a one world government?
	Well, how does that... you think that has to do with the free men?
	Well, kind of.
	I think that a lot of people in the country are really scared that there's a force out there that is trying to destroy the American government and destroy us as a nation in order to implement a one world government.
	Well, you honestly think the attention being given to three men by the FBI and so forth is Part of this one world government drive?
	You really believe that?
	Yeah, in general I really do.
	I think that, you know, if you like read the Communist Manifesto and the... How about just U.S.
	sovereignty?
	In other words, we're a nation made up of states, right?
	And I don't know what the hell this has to do with the world.
	To me it has to do with the fact that people cannot set up little sovereign fiefdoms, kingdoms within That which was united long ago called the United States of America and
	It's not butchers, butchers, golly, going after the freemen.
	It's the federal law enforcement people, sir.
	Well, one thing that you and I cannot do, and that's confirm this racist stuff that we hear about, this militia, and several other points, we really can't do that.
	I'm not even prepared to call them a militia, nor am I prepared to call the farmhouse a compound.
	That's what the media is doing.
	I know, yeah, it's interesting how they like to use the word compound.
	The reason why I wanted to ask you about that, this One World Order thing, is because I have something that's called the Constitution for the Federation of Earth.
	Have you heard of that?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's pretty interesting.
	It seems that these people I talk to, the people that are organizing this and putting this out, if anybody gets a chance, they really need to read this and understand that there is indeed a push to try to... Why?
	I mean, it's absolute baloney.
	Why should anybody have to read it?
	There's not a constitution for the world.
	Hell, we can barely hold on to our own Constitution in this country.
	Exactly.
	When you hear people talking about rewriting the Constitution in this country after having taken an oath under God to protect that Constitution, it would make you wonder, wouldn't it?
	Well, it would make me imagine that not too many of us are going to take oaths to protect any Constitution in the world.
	That's baloney.
	Well, you know, Michael Knew thought that, too, when he got court-martialed.
	Michael Knew deserved to get court-martialed.
	For not surrendering his sovereignty to the United Nations?
	No, for not following orders.
	Look, I was in the military.
	I know I got that.
	As I did to uphold the Constitution.
	That's right.
	Excuse me?
	That's right.
	And PPD 25 made constitutional the order Michael knew got.
	Made constitutional.
	Now what constitution are we talking about here?
	The U.S.
	Constitution, sir.
	I've got to run.
	Under that Constitution, the President has the right and executive authority to do exactly what he did.
	And it is not, you know, a lot of us don't like what the U.N.
	is doing there.
	But it is not for the individual soldier to refuse orders.
	We'll be back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast am from march twenty seven nineteen ninety six
	and and
	and three-year network presents art bill somewhere in time
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 27th, 1996.
	Good morning, everybody.
	It's good to be here.
	I'm Art Bell, again.
	We're talking about The Freeman, and we'll get back to it in a moment.
	It's now the number one national story.
	Reuters, NBC did the first ten minutes of their newscast on it last night.
	It's now a big story.
	This is great music.
	What you're hearing is Cusco.
	C-U-S-C-O.
	They're a German group.
	I use them consistently as bumper music.
	Ended for about a year before the company that carries them, Higher Octave, finally called us and said, you know, you're selling so much Cusco.
	Might as well advertise with you.
	And so it is.
	If you'd like some Cusco, here's the offer.
	The Cusco 2000 album, plus Cusco 2002, and the best-selling album, Mystic Island, all three CDs, with a discount price of $39.95, or if you want cassettes, just $27.95, and this includes postage to get them to your home.
	Now listen, I'm not done.
	For a thin $5 more, they'll give you two more CDs of music, full CDs, Of music of the same genre, from higher octave.
	In other words, a total of five CDs for less than the cost of three, while the deal remains open.
	The number is 1-800-562-8283.
	That's 1-800-562-8283.
	That's Cusco.
	I'm Art Bell.
	six two eight two eight three that's one
	eight hundred five six two
	eight two eight three that's cusco
	i'm art bell we're talking again about the free man
	We had a Freeman on the air here this last hour.
	Those of you who just joined us, I'm so sorry you could not have heard it.
	You didn't hear it.
	You could not have heard it, I suppose, if you were just picked up in this hour.
	But through it all, a kind of a difficult conversation.
	Finally, I asked Mr. Freeman to cite for me a country that has more relative freedom than we do.
	And he decided to cite China.
	God, I was in China.
	I've never been in such a chilling place in all my life.
	More freedom.
	They watch every step you take.
	They watch every step their own people take.
	There is not freedom for Chinese to travel from province to province.
	China.
	Dear Art, the next time a free man calls up, please ask the following.
	If China is so free, then why are Tibetan refugees scattered all over the world?
	Why were millions killed in the Tibetan genocide?
	Derek from San Diego, yes, good question.
	From Chief in Wisconsin, listening to The Lip, W-L-I-P, Janirino will have the free men surrounded until they're low on supplies, then move in on them, in the so-called best interest of any children that are there.
	They will be in control of things and will manipulate them to their best interest.
	This includes the press.
	Guess they learned from Waco.
	On a couple of separate items before we return to this, I've got a couple of breaking, interesting stories for you.
	The first one probably carries more weight and I want you to be aware of this and that I am on it.
	I got a fax this morning from Don In Roswell, New Mexico, and Don said, Art, you should see the article on the front page of our Roswell Daily Record this morning.
	Someone turned in a piece of metal to one of our two UFO museums.
	The person was supposedly at the RAAF here in 1947.
	There's a color photograph on the front of the newspaper.
	This just may be the smoking gun we've all been looking for.
	It's going to be sent to a metallurgist for analysis.
	And so I kind of filed that mentally away.
	And then, lo and behold, arrives a second fax from my affiliate in Roswell, KBIM, News Talk 910, Roswell, the operations and news director of that station, says, Dennis, good night.
	He writes the following, 49 years after an unidentified flying object was supposed to have crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, a piece of it may have been returned.
	Volunteers of Roswell's UFO Museum say somebody has turned in an object which may be part of a spacecraft.
	Museum co-founder Max Little says the unusual thin sheet of metal has been stored by someone who kept it secret for a long time.
	As a matter of fact, it was kept in a frame.
	He said the story is it belonged to the man involved in the cleanup of material or a man involved in a cleanup of that material by the military in 1947.
	He passed this material on to another party in Texas who's taken care of it Put it in its present condition and pass it on to us Sunday now.
	He says, if it's the real thing, this could be the first hard evidence made public of spacecraft landing on Earth.
	If not, it could be yet another fluke in the endless effort of UFO researchers.
	And so, I followed the story up at that point.
	That was enough for me, of course.
	And I contacted Max Little, At the UFO Museum, and he said, yes, indeed, we've got it.
	I said, Max, what about the metal?
	What can you tell me about it?
	He said, well, it has unusual properties.
	I said, Max, remember the movie about Roswell?
	A lot of you will have seen that.
	The metal that crumpled up returned to its original condition.
	I said, you mean like that?
	He said, yes.
	So...
	I'm not sure what we've got here, but I didn't stop there.
	Since there was obviously photographic evidence of this, I called the Roswell Daily Record and spoke to Jerry McCormick there, the photographer who went out and took the photographs.
	And I talked Jerry into running out to a one-hour Photoshop and getting a print made Which he has said X-ing to me.
	Now I guess I don't have to tell you that as soon as I get my hands on it, it will be going in our newsletter, it will be going on my webpage, it will be going on our bulletin board.
	In other words, we will share it with the millions out there.
	So, not saying it is so, but they are saying They may have a piece of the spacecraft that allegedly crashed at Roswell, or was it Socorro?
	And I'm following up as best I can, and within a day or two, I expect to have that photograph for you, and you can take a look for yourself.
	That's one item.
	Another is, I have just been faxed an alleged picture of El Chupacabra.
	El Chupacabra.
	El Chupacabra As a JPG or GIF file or whatever.
	Get me a picture of this thing on AOL.
	Attach it on AOL.
	That's America Online.
	Send it to Art Bell at AOL.com.
	Or contact me with a telephone number and I will download it directly from you and also make it available for everybody to see.
	So that is where we stand with those stories.
	There's just an awful lot going on at once.
	Breaking news on a number of fronts here.
	Now, from Valencia.
	Uh, Veronica in Valencia.
	That's cute.
	Listening to KABC, the following art.
	ABC's Primetime did a piece on the Montana Freeman with a gentleman who videotaped a recruit meeting Who asked his identity be hidden for fear of retribution.
	The man was terrified.
	Couldn't believe what the freemen said that God authorized killing.
	They have orders to quote, shoot to kill and quote, anybody who gets in their way.
	The speaker announced a bounty hunt of ten groups of four men with automatics and any and shotguns to hunt down the sheriff, the deputy, A judge and somebody else.
	In the video, the free men also talked about Jews and blacks and claim these groups are fathered by Satan?
	Art, could you please remind these gentlemen, her word, that Jesus was a Jew and no matter how much their imagination can wander, he was not white and whites are not the chosen group as they claim to be.
	It was frightening to watch.
	It was pure evil.
	They're full of secret and paranoia.
	They've created this incident, and no matter what happens, they'll claim the government set them up, and they'll not take any responsibility for their actions.
	It's a scary world out there, and it seems that people are becoming more and more disoriented.
	What's going on?
	Well, what's going on, Veronica, in Valencia, is, um, Exactly what I have known has been going on for some time.
	And it's worsening, Veronica.
	It's quickening.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Well, hello there, Art.
	Hello.
	It's Shane in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
	Hello, Shane.
	Well, concerning this freemen thing, I just happen to be looking through this catalog, some classified ads, and there's a little thing.
	I wonder if the free men might use this to make their money.
	The IRS says income taxes are voluntary for U.S.
	citizens inhabiting the 50 states.
	Now I, of course, being interested by this and thinking they're all crazy lunatics anyway, I'm called in a hundred number that they supply for the
	fact that all that yes uh... and what you get well it tells you
	that uh... they have to follow from code and stuff like that and that is you know
	for information concerning how to go through all this and how to join
	something that uh... will keep and everything
	movement twelve dollars to the progress of twelve dollars a yeah but i thought it pretty amazing
	uh... well a lot of people that have followed that advice are now
	About $12 probably.
	Well, even more than that.
	A lot of them are consulting the law libraries within institutions all across the country.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	I think they're... Penal institutions.
	Penal.
	Very good ones.
	Very good ones at that.
	I think they're all, you know, a couple cards short of the deck myself.
	Did you hear the guy that was on last hour?
	Yes, I did.
	I don't know.
	I remember something about a License to operate an automobile?
	You need to be a licensed operator?
	Well, you know, the whole license thing didn't come out until I prided out of him.
	He was saying, well they've issued this order saying I can't travel.
	I can't, yeah, I'm not allowed to travel.
	Not allowed to travel.
	No reason.
	Yeah, no reason.
	And until I dug and dug and dug and dug, and then finally we got down to, well, there's something about a driver's license.
	And then we started talking about freedom around the world, and he cites China as freer.
	Yeah.
	Sounds like it.
	I can't trust anyone that's not gonna, you know, come on and tell me something, but they're not gonna give me the information you gotta pry it out.
	Man, I'll tell you, that's Looney Tunes.
	And then we jump from there to martial law and one world order.
	Yeah.
	You know what I thought, though?
	Well, I'm thinking a lot of people are in the penal code listening to your show, if they can.
	Oh, believe me, they do.
	I get more letters from guys in the joint than you can imagine.
	Oh, God.
	Well, you know what?
	They're all going to be, you know, saying, hey, I don't have to be in the jail.
	You know, if I allow you to book... Wait a minute.
	Now, I didn't volunteer.
	Guard, come here.
	I didn't volunteer.
	I'm a free man.
	All right.
	Take care, sir.
	Thank you.
	Guard, come here.
	I'm a free man.
	I didn't volunteer to be here.
	Let me out.
	I shouldn't laugh.
	It's dangerous.
	What's going on in Montana is definitely dangerous, and I'm holding my West of the Rockies line open for Montana.
	And you know what I want to know?
	I want to know... Now, you can't trust the press.
	I mean, they get it wrong.
	As far as I know, the free men are not a militia, and they called them a militia again and again and again and again yesterday.
	So they got that wrong.
	That really is not a compound.
	I suppose in the strictest sense you could call it that, because they're armed to the teeth, but it looks like a farmhouse to me.
	It's a farmhouse.
	But I suppose they could refer to it reasonably as a compound in view of the standoff and the amount of arms and, you know, the signs out there with the little hangman's noose saying.
	But you're allowed to do that.
	I mean, that's legal.
	But a lot of what they're doing obviously, obviously is not.
	I don't know that I trust the national press on this, thank you.
	I do trust all of you, and I do trust those of you in Montana.
	The press was saying that the people of Montana, in the area, are damn glad to have the FBI around.
	That the majority of them are.
	Not all of them, but the great majority are comfortable that something is finally going on, and they felt terrorized by these so-called free men.
	Now, is that true?
	Here, we have an opportunity to really learn the truth.
	Would you like to do that?
	I would.
	So, let's hear from the people of Montana and find out if that report was true or false.
	So, if you're in Montana, we're holding our 800 line open only for you at 1-800-618-8255.
	This always seems to happen to me.
	One day, I will do a show on something, and the next day, the whole thing blows up.
	Well, that once again was the case, so we're about 24 hours ahead of the curve.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM
	from March 27, 1996.
	AMC News.
	you Back to it we go, everybody.
	West of the Rockies, and I believe once again in Montana, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi there.
	Hi.
	Who would this be?
	My name's Barb.
	Okay, Barb.
	And where are you?
	I'm in Bozeman, Montana.
	Bozeman, Montana.
	Right in that very area.
	Well, what do you think, Barb?
	What do you think of the freemen movement?
	And I would like to know, most of all, Whether you're happy or not that the FBI and authorities have begun to take charge.
	I am relieved that they're here, that something is being done, that a couple of guys have already been arrested.
	I feel like we have a... I'm a native Montanan and I feel like we have a bunch of small-minded bigots that are lacking knowledge in many areas of life that are Just holing up and trying to prove themselves to the world.
	Well, Barb, this fellow I had on last hour, I'm sorry, but to me he sounded completely whacked out.
	Anybody who would cite China as a bastion of freedom, as compared to the United States, is not well traveled.
	I would like to invite him to move to China, because if you don't want to play by the rules here in our country, then move to another country.
	And that's, you know, if he can't travel, Gee, I'll help out with a bus ticket, a plane ticket, whatever, but we need this kind of mentality out of this state.
	Well, I can imagine that the people in this area, from what I've heard, and I'm trying to be objective about this, but from what I've heard, it's almost been like a sort of a reign of terror going on in this area.
	And I haven't been, you know, around the Jordan area much at all, but that's what it sounds like.
	And it may not be a compound that these guys have going, but looks can be deceiving.
	They could have a complete arsenal.
	Well, every report I've heard, Barb, says they're very well armed.
	Armed to the teeth, that kind of thing.
	And I would believe it.
	Oh, I believe it, too.
	And I saw the primetime thing tonight, and frankly, what I saw, the videotape, if it was actual footage, is frightening.
	It's frightening to think that people with this mentality actually live in this state.
	All right.
	Thank you very much, Barb.
	I appreciate it.
	And there's nothing like getting the truth, and the truth would seem to be, I think, so far demonstrated by the call we had from the man, which I think I had him on for 15 minutes, I would say, wouldn't you?
	And now, Barb, and we will hear from others in Montana.
	I mean, let the truth be known.
	If the truth is that these are a bunch of thugs and lawbreakers And people reigning terror on a community, then let that be known.
	If this is not another Waco, then let not the banner of Waco and the Patriot banner be raised in defense of these thugs.
	That's what I would say.
	And these are open lines.
	I'm not screening these calls except as to location.
	So, You can sit here and you can make your own judgments.
	I think it's just damn important that the American people know the truth.
	Not the twisted truth.
	Not the twisted whim of a story that we got about the inability to travel and how China is a free place and all the rest of it.
	I'm so glad that we got him on the air so that you could hear that.
	What in the world?
	What in the world would cause somebody to come to believe that, why, across the ocean in a place called China, they've got freedom?
	They can do what they want to do over there.
	They don't need license to travel.
	They can travel freely.
	It just simply could not be more untrue.
	And where people get this sort of twisted, total untruth in their minds, well, it's frightening, actually.
	Frightening.
	As I think what's going on in Montana is frightening.
	But the American people really, really do need to know.
	Don't raise any banners out there until you know what you're raising them for.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, tonight we're gonna make it happen.
	Tonight we'll put all of us in the prime.
	Give in this time and show me some resistance.
	We're going for those pleasures in the night.
	I want to love you, feel you, correct myself around you.
	I want to squeeze you, squeeze you.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 27th, 1996.
	Mart, I missed your bullet board number.
	Would you please repeat it?
	Don't have access to the internet yet.
	Thanks, Gary.
	Wherever Gary is.
	Gary, it was not a bullet board number.
	This number is for another Vidian demo.
	If you've already got the Vidian demo program, My friend John across town has got another Vidian demo up.
	And, uh, we haven't been giving those numbers out on the air.
	It's not gonna work unless you've got the Vidian program.
	But if you do, uh, you'll probably see John sitting there at about this hour in front of his bulletin board.
	Now, the camera is focused on the bulletin board equipment.
	The whole thing.
	So you'll get to see the bulletin board.
	It's kinda neat.
	Art, this is a real dangerous mess.
	I believe the feds should wait.
	There are women and at least two children, maybe on the news today, out of Billings.
	Already a leader in the Texas militia said some of them are going to leave immediately from Montana.
	Damn it, I knew it.
	To be sure that the feds do not rush the compound of the freemen.
	He said there better not be another Waco or Ruby Ridge.
	There's six inches of snow up here now.
	Maybe more in the area.
	Heavy snow due tonight and tomorrow.
	Roads may be shut down in parts of Wyoming tomorrow.
	That will slow them down.
	See, this is the one thing that I'm trying to prevent right now.
	And if you're in Texas or you're anywhere else in the country, and you're listening tonight, As a matter of fact, if I'd have thought twice about it, I'd have had that conversation with the free man recorded and played back.
	In fact, I'll work on that.
	Don't pack up and head toward Montana.
	Don't take up a banner until you understand the banner that you're raising.
	And until you understand what the free men are about, I suggest you sit home and listen.
	Listen, because you'll hear the truth unfold throughout the nighttime here once again.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	This is Tim from Bozeman, Montana.
	Welcome, sir.
	I seem to get a lot of calls from Bozeman tonight.
	Yeah, a lot of calls from Bozeman.
	Yeah, I'd just like to put in my two cents on this whole deal.
	Please.
	Like the lady from Bozeman did earlier.
	These guys are really out on an extreme limb.
	They sure are.
	Most Montanans wouldn't want to have anything to do with them, I don't think.
	Are you also pleased that the federal authorities are there?
	Well, I think they had to.
	From what I've heard on the local news coverage, and from what I understand, the local sheriff's department out there had to pretty much beg the feds to come in and talk to them for quite a while to get them to come in.
	I guess they were pretty gun-shy after Waco and Ruby Ridge.
	I understand.
	I understand, but I think it is important that Americans Texans.
	I mean, you heard me read this fax before you came on the air.
	Damn, the last thing we need is a bunch of militias figuring, man, this is it.
	We're going to have to go and be sure that nothing happens to these people.
	And you get a bunch of gun-toting folks around an area held secure by the FBI and local law enforcement, and there's going to be trouble.
	Oh, yeah.
	There definitely would be trouble.
	I would encourage them.
	Stay home.
	Not to get involved in the thing.
	I mean, after some of the stuff the FBI's involved in, everybody's watching closely.
	They're not going to pull anything.
	Right.
	You want to pick your fights carefully, and this is not one to be picked, in my opinion.
	Yeah, I mean, the only reason they really wanted to bring him in so much is Garfield County, where they're at, is a really, really small county.
	If you've never been up to Montana, I mean, there might be four or five thousand people in that whole county.
	They don't have the kind of resources to deal with this sort of thing.
	Well, they really didn't in Waco, either.
	So I appreciate your call, sir, and there's another Montanan who is glad the local authorities and the federal authorities are there.
	I sure would like to get that call played back.
	I'm going to see what I can do about that.
	The trouble is we have ongoing recording of the program, so I don't know.
	Art, your caller from Montana was a misguided fool.
	Although his heart's probably in the right place, he's a bit confused.
	His China comment almost makes him sound a bit damaged.
	Aren't they tend to side on the same side as this guy, but for different reasons?
	To put it this way, I support to an extent the Patriot arguments out there, but if the Freeman broke the law, damaged someone else, or violated somebody else's constitutional rights, then even as, quote, Freeman, end quote, sovereign citizens, or whatever other title they go by, they've got to be punished according to the law.
	Fraud His fraud, even if a free man does it.
	By breaking the law, they then become suspects slash criminals.
	If the free man did what is said, then they should be prosecuted like any other criminal.
	If they're not guilty, then any infringement on their rights, I adamantly oppose.
	Think of yourself as a, quote, patriot, end quote, does not mean that you are free from responsibility.
	You must still respect others' rights.
	Sovereignty is no excuse to break the law.
	You're damn right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	Hi.
	I'm Dana.
	I'm calling from Kalispell.
	From where?
	Kalispell.
	Montana?
	Yes.
	Welcome to the program.
	Glad to have you.
	Thank you.
	I am a militia member.
	Militia of Montana?
	Yeah.
	The militia of Montana is actually a very small group, but I'm I actually live in Washington.
	I'm in Montana right now.
	I just want to make a very important point that I've heard a lot of people referring to the Freeman as militia members and they are not militia members and there's a very important distinction between the two.
	NBC referred to them in that manner on a number of occasions during their coverage last night.
	You know, and that really makes me angry because that really stirs up a lot of... I know it.
	It makes me angry, too.
	There's no excuse for that kind of miscoverage.
	And I believe it is miscoverage.
	I've heard no credible report whatsoever tying these men, these so-called free men, to militias.
	And it was irresponsible to do so, in my opinion, on the part of NBC.
	Absolutely.
	You know, and I really feel like, you know, my fellow Militia members are law-abiding citizens who are concerned with preserving the sovereignty of our nation, not the sovereignty of our little separate acres.
	And I just think that it's very important to make that distinction, because these are not militiamen.
	These are freemen.
	I'm glad you did that.
	And having said that, now, what is your attitude about the federal people being there?
	Are you comforted by it?
	Worried by it?
	I'm a little nervous because I think that they tend to get out of hand.
	I think that we've seen that demonstrated on two separate occasions, and I know there are more occasions than that, but it was very evident on two separate occasions.
	I would urge people to wait and see exactly what's going to happen.
	I feel like if the federal government is going to blatantly Disregard these people's rights as they have done in the past with other people, then I do think that the militias do need to get involved because, you know, somebody's got to stand up and say, you know, wait a minute, you can't do this.
	And, and, uh, so, but, but I would urge people to wait and see what happens before they jump the gun.
	And well, that is what's scaring me.
	I get a fax like this from Texas saying we're packing up and we're headed up there.
	And, um, You know, no matter what else happens, if the FBI is saying they're going to sit this out with the other law enforcement officers and they're going to wait these people out and try to end it without violence, uh, if, if people begin heading in that direction, that's open country.
	If the guys start showing up with guns, there's going to be, it's, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know where that one goes.
	Right.
	But you know, I'll tell you, you know, if, and I've heard this on many occasion that it, you know, if there, Ever, anytime, is another incident like Ruby Ridge, or like Waco, then you will see a lot of militia members showing up, and I think that'll be a great deterrent, and really keep those guys in check.
	Yeah, but what I want to try to say to people, and what I've discerned, based on the calls I've had so far from the people in my panel, like yourself, and from that so-called free man here a little while ago, this is not Ruby Rich, this is not Wacoism.
	Right.
	These guys are breaking the law, and these guys are trying to make their own laws, and that's not what the law is about.
	The militia members are law-abiding citizens.
	These guys are not right in what they're doing, and they need to be accountable for that.
	Well, if we don't make that distinction very clear tonight, and every time we have an opportunity prior to whatever happens, Then the militias, because of the press, are going to take the rap on this.
	Yeah, like they have in the past, after the Oklahoma bombing, you know?
	The militias were deemed the, you know, country-hating people who just want to take down the federal government, and that is not the case.
	All right, dear.
	I appreciate your call.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.
	Yet, somebody else from Montana.
	We're holding our West of the Rockies line open for Montana for just this reason.
	It's too important not to do.
	So if you're in Montana, it's 1-800-618-8255.
	And we cover the great state of Montana with a great blanket.
	So we're heard throughout Montana, and I'm sure everybody on both sides of this is in there listening this morning.
	It'd be good even to hear from some law enforcement people in Montana, as we did yesterday.
	Okay, we'll be right back.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	You know, in the days of our parents, they never would have questioned government.
	Nowadays, people are beginning to say, you know what?
	Something's wrong.
	I'm not happy with this.
	I mean, what's going on here?
	Why are they so obsessed with trying to control us?
	Well, I personally think there are tremendous numbers of people out there who know they're not being told the truth, and no one is talking to us, so we need to help each other.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Music Now, back to the lines.
	And again, to the great state of Montana, open sky country.
	And who would I have on my line?
	Yes, this is Randy from Havre, Montana.
	Where is Havre, Montana, Randy?
	Havre is north-central Montana, about 40 miles from the Canadian border.
	All right.
	Welcome to the program.
	Yes.
	Mr. Bell, this is a small community, a highline community, similar to the area down there.
	However, there's no There's really no sympathizers here for the free man movement, at least that I can gather.
	All the news media and local media here really expresses no sympathy.
	No sympathy?
	No sympathy, and any letters to the editor are all negative.
	Yeah, the NBC last night in their report was trying to say that the free men are saying why they've got all kinds of sympathizers out there and people they're going to rush to their defense in this, and I'm not hearing that.
	Right.
	One thing I'd like to I'd like to pose an interesting comparison of the Native American Indian Reservations.
	When you set foot across the Indian Reservation line, it's just like being in a third world country.
	My wife is Native American, Chippewa Cree.
	When you go out there, If you so much as break their tribal law or impose yourself on any of the people out there, you are at their mercy.
	Well, I would say what the Native Americans have now is pseudo-sovereignty, but you're right.
	And that is established by treaty.
	There's no treaty that have given the so-called free men Any sovereignty greater than you have or I have here in Nevada?
	Yes, okay.
	One quick other point, I'd like to pose a challenge to any free man or militia group for a minority member to call in and just prove that there is a minority membership.
	Because as far as I know, I have never seen or heard any mention of any.
	Not too many black militia guys?
	Right.
	Or Native American or any other thing like that.
	Not too many Hispanic militia guys?
	That's correct.
	It is an interesting question.
	Yeah.
	So we'll pose it and see how many minority militia members we get.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Okay, thanks Art.
	Take care.
	I thought I'd have to dig it out here again.
	Yeah, here it is.
	This was really the most shocking facts of all, I thought.
	Art, this is again from Veronica in Valencia.
	ABC's Primetime did a piece on the Montana Freeman with a gentleman who videotaped a recruit meeting who asked his identity be hidden for fear of retribution.
	The man was terrified.
	Couldn't believe That the Freeman said God authorized killing.
	They have orders to shoot to kill anyone who gets in their way.
	The speaker announced a bounty hunt of ten groups of four men with automatics and any shotguns to hunt down the sheriff, the deputy, a judge, and someone else.
	In the video, the Freeman also talked about Jews and blacks and claimed these groups are fathered by Satan.
	Art, could you please remind these gentlemen that Jesus was a Jew, and no matter how much their imagination can wander, he was not white.
	Whites are not a chosen group, as they claim to be.
	It was frightening to watch.
	It was pure evil.
	They're full of hatred and paranoia.
	They've created this incident.
	No matter what happens, they'll claim the government set them up.
	And they will not take any responsibility for their actions.
	It's a scary world out there.
	It seems people are becoming more and more disoriented.
	Boy, do I agree with that one.
	Do I ever agree with that one.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	How you doing, Mr. Bell?
	I'm okay.
	Mr. Bell, about this Freeman situation.
	Sure.
	Where are you, by the way?
	Somewhere in Oklahoma.
	I'm an over-the-road truck driver.
	Yes, sir.
	I've recently, within the past couple of months, started to involve myself in some of this conspiracy, anti-government tax thing, and what I have found is that both sides of the argument, from the Internal Revenue Service, from these Patriot groups, are purposefully twisted to give only their side of the argument.
	Now, from what I have researched on my own... Oh, I'm sure there's propaganda on both sides.
	Oh, yeah, and it's just that people need to know that whatever these Patriot groups are telling them, they had darn well better go look into it on their own and be willing to, if they want to perform any type of non-violent civil disobedience, be willing to do it by themselves without a support group.
	and what i found it i have not been able to find one of the so-called patriot
	groups that are logic-based they're all either racially or
	religiously none of them are objective and give full disclosure over
	the argument well that's a pretty broad brush
	but uh...
	i i was think certainly a large number of them are as you describe but that that's a
	too broad a brush for There are some, no doubt, objective groups that are pretty mainstream.
	I have not yet found one.
	That may be.
	And I do appreciate your call.
	Thank you very much.
	And I think his advice is sound.
	Before you accept anybody's explanation of how everything that you don't like is voluntary, you better be damn careful.
	Voluntary taxes.
	Voluntary driver's license.
	Voluntary booking for an arrest.
	That was a good one.
	Well, you don't have to be booked.
	I mean, you have to volunteer.
	Only if you volunteer.
	There's a lot of people in the joint listening right now, I'm sure, who are saying, Hey!
	Hey, I didn't volunteer!
	Hey, jailer!
	Come here!
	Big news!
	Break it on the radio!
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, this is Art.
	Yes, it is.
	Okay, this is Lee from Bozeman.
	Lee from Bozeman.
	Bozeman's in here like a...
	Went crazy this morning.
	Welcome.
	Yeah, it is.
	Well, I'm a college student here at MSU, and I'm originally from Eastern Montana, and my family farms about, oh, about two hours from where all this took place.
	And basically, no, you know, about 99% of the people in Eastern Montana, and I think the rest of it for that matter, have no support for this group.
	They're all a bunch of disgruntled farmers that have lost their grasp on reality.
	By the way, that's another question that they asked the Senator from Montana on NBC yesterday.
	Is there any truth to the fact that these men have been unfairly screwed out of their property?
	And the Senator said, absolutely not.
	Oh, no.
	No, they haven't.
	The government did not run in and steal their property or anything else.
	No, they didn't.
	You know, uh, you know, farmers have, you know, they go through hard times and these particular ones just You know, I didn't know how to get through the hard times.
	Sir, a lot of people go through, our talk show hosts go through hard times.
	Look, can you stand by while we do some news?
	Well, I sure can!
	Alright, then that's what you're doing, standing by in Bozeman, Montana.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 27, 1996.
	American Music American Music
	American Music Now we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in
	Time.
	Welcome, I'm Art Bell.
	This is a program called Coast to Coast AM.
	And that kind of undersells it a little bit.
	Actually, it's worldwide, courtesy of the World Wide Web.
	If you want real audio, if you want the late corrected Hoagland pictures, if you want many other things, go to my webpage, World Wide Webpage, and there you will find them.
	My web address is www.artbell.com.
	That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
	That's it.
	If you have a web browser of some sort, just enter the name Art Bell.
	A-R-T-B-E-L-L.
	It will eventually get you to my webpage, and from there, the world.
	And also, uh, real audio, by the way.
	Uh, incidentally, to give you some idea, uh, this, uh, last weekend, when a lot of people were having trouble getting through to my webpage, there was good cause for it.
	There were, over the weekend, 500,000 hits on that webpage.
	So if you're one of the ones that experienced a slow-going web, uh, that's why.
	Our page actually slowed everything down.
	500,000 hits throughout the weekend.
	Anyway, if you want to make it up there, there you will find much information.
	And soon, by the way, you will find my photographs of the book signing in Portland.
	Even my signing of a bald head.
	Ha ha ha!
	That was great!
	And there's a photograph supplied by somebody who took it, a black and white, of my wife and I.
	That I think you'll enjoy.
	I really like it.
	It's one of the best pictures of my wife I've seen.
	And I hope you enjoy it.
	So all that will be up on the webpage shortly, if it is not already.
	So there's just a great deal going on up there.
	Don't miss it.
	It's www.artbell.com.
	Now, this morning, we're breaking all kinds of news and following all kinds of stories live this morning because the radio station you're listening to cares enough To have live talk radio on, and it's a damn good thing, because there are some serious things going on.
	The Freeman situation has blown up, uh, uh, all out of... I don't want to say out of proportion, because it's not really out of proportion.
	It deserves, I suppose, to be blown up.
	I just don't want it to be a blow-up.
	If you follow me, NBC sent some camera people there yesterday to the Freeman, quote, compound, unquote, uh, farmhouse compound, whatever you want to call it.
	And they had their cameras and videotape taken at gunpoint.
	At gunpoint.
	And they were wise to surrender them.
	And I guess they had to leave.
	They just left without their camera.
	And their tape.
	Probably an awful lot of money heisted away.
	And that, by the way, occurred out on an open road.
	You might want to know.
	Bunch of guys with guns in a pickup truck.
	Approach the NBC people who were on their way out and stole their camera and their videotape.
	FBI is on the scene.
	I had a free man in the first hour of the show call and you have absolutely got to hear that call.
	If you have a station that re-airs the first hour of the program or airs it for the first time, you're lucky because you're going to hear a call you won't believe.
	This man eventually got around to talking about relative freedom around the world, and I said, well, fine.
	Yeah, freedom is relative.
	Name me a country where there's more relative freedom than the U.S., and his answer was China.
	China.
	So we had about a 15-minute conversation with the free man right at the beginning.
	We are holding the line open for people in Montana, and I'm going to get back to that line and this caller in a second.
	Art, if you're a free man caller, Was typical of the group.
	It's obvious that one of the requirements of membership is a brainectomy performed pro bono by Dr. Granny and Jethro Bodine.
	That's from Jim in Tupelo, Mississippi.
	You're back on the air from Montana, sir.
	Welcome back.
	Oh, thank you, Art.
	And you're way up, let's see, you're in What is the name of that town again?
	Well, I'm in Bozeman.
	Oh, you're in Bozeman.
	Yeah, I'm a college student, but I'm originally from a town called Sydney, which is right about 10 miles from the Montana-North Dakota border.
	Okay.
	And that's up close to where this is taking place.
	And then my family has a farm that's about an hour and a half west of there, which is even closer.
	So I would say that our land is about two hours from this place.
	And, uh, well, yeah, I don't think, uh, I think these guys have totally just, just lost all perception of reality here.
	I mean, they, you know, I've known farmers in Eastern Montana all my life and, and I've never, you know, I've never met any that have this kind of attitude or think like this at all.
	It's just, uh, it's wild, isn't it?
	Yeah, it is.
	And, um, you know, as, as, as far as, uh, you know, the, the, Government officials up here infringing on our rights.
	I mean, this is by far the most lenient state in the country to live in.
	Well, that was one of the questions asked yesterday by NBC to the Senator from Montana, and that was whether the people of Montana have actually abided this kind of behavior too long.
	Well, yes, I think they have.
	Maybe just been a little too tolerant.
	Yeah, no, I've kind of been keeping up on this Freeman thing because I'm close enough to it.
	And I just think that, you know, people, most people I've talked to just thought these guys were kooks from the beginning.
	And, you know, like many people say, I think they're glad that the feds are here.
	Good.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	Thank you.
	And I want to follow up.
	And one of the reasons I'm doing this is because I just got a fax from Texas here a little while ago.
	And they said, all the militias down here in Texas are packing up and getting ready to go to Montana.
	To be damn sure that, uh, that the vets don't, uh, that we don't have another Waco or another, uh, Ruby Ridge.
	Don't do it.
	Before you raise the banner and start the march, you better sit down and listen to this talk program.
	You better listen to the people in Montana.
	Because that aspect of the reporting seems correct thus far.
	There's not a lot of sympathy at all for what they're doing.
	In fact, there's a lot of fear up there.
	And the people of Montana seem damn glad to have the feds there.
	And finally, something going on.
	And NBC said that these freemen have been literally scaring the people, holding them in a state of terror in that particular area.
	By issuing million-dollar bounties on people to be brought to the sovereign land of justice, J-U-S-T-U-S, where they might be tried.
	That sort of thing.
	You be careful about the banners you pick up out there.
	You sit down and you listen before you move.
	Engage brain, please, before picking up gun.
	A wild card line, you're on the air, hi.
	Yeah Art, how you doing?
	Okay.
	Okay, I think it's kind of amusing that you and some of these federal sheep calling in... Federal sheep?
	Yeah, are perfectly willing to entertain a ridiculous idea like bug-eyed aliens shanghaying people out of their beds and carting them off to the mothership.
	But they totally dismiss the idea that the federal government is becoming ever more unconstitutional and tyrannical.
	You think that this attention being paid to the so-called freemen Is the bug-eyed government tyrannically descending on poor, innocent citizens.
	Is that about it?
	Well, I mean, the Freemans specifically, I'm withholding judgment.
	I don't know that much about them, but the whole attitude... Oh, thank you.
	That is kind of you.
	The whole attitude that I'm getting the last couple of days is that, uh, how dare you question the federal government and, and, and the like, and, and... No, no, no, no, no, no.
	Come on.
	Don't paint a picture that ain't there, sir.
	Oh, come on.
	No, no, no.
	That picture isn't there at all.
	Nobody's saying, how dare you defy or question the federal government.
	Everybody questions the federal government.
	You keep your eye on the government if you've got half a brain.
	Right, right.
	But you don't grab a gun and go defend people who are simply breaking the law, do you?
	No, that would be crazy.
	Oh, thank you.
	But let's look at some items here.
	Item 1, a hard-working farmer in California is threatened with being thrown in jail on his property and his farm taken away because he runs over a damned rat.
	We're not talking about a guy who ran over rats, sir.
	We're not talking about that.
	The whole picture is people are lulled into thinking that There's nothing to worry about here, and item after item, day after day, the federal government is putting an increasingly tighter stranglehold upon its citizens.
	But, sir, the federal government is not always in the wrong, either.
	Well, no, it's not always in the wrong.
	The FBI is not always in the wrong.
	The BATF is not always in the wrong.
	I might beg to differ on that.
	Well, you might beg to differ all you want, but they're not always in the wrong.
	They protect a lot of us from a lot of bad things.
	Now I'm not saying they're always in the right either, and I thought they were absolutely dead flat wrong in the way Waco was handled.
	But I'll tell you something, this ain't Waco.
	Well, no it's not.
	It's not Waco, but the whole attitude that the idea of a radical Reorganization of government or resistance to government is un-American, is ridiculous.
	The founding fathers of this nation... Who said that?
	Who said that?
	Who said that?
	We have a constitution, sir.
	It allows us to reorganize the federal government every election.
	Well, why don't you tell the people in California that voted in Proposition 187 and then had a federal judge who wanted to indulge his whims, throw it out.
	Well... I'll tell you where the recourse is.
	It's in the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	That's where the recourse is.
	That's what I'm trying to point out.
	There is always recourse.
	It's built into the system.
	That Constitution that you claim to hold so dear?
	Read it!
	Oh, I've read it quite well, and obviously you haven't.
	Alright, thanks for the call.
	See, that's a crock.
	That's the typical hopeless, we-can't-do-anything speech.
	Bull!
	Bullcrap!
	That's just not true.
	And if a federal judge does something you don't like, then you take it to a higher court.
	You know, I think these people who wield the Constitution and lash the federal government with it themselves have not read it that carefully.
	You do have recourse.
	It's called the U.S.
	Supreme Court, highest court in the land.
	We'll be right back.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
	For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
	Listen on your way to work and again on the way home.
	Or listen to one of over a thousand archived shows from the past three years.
	As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Noory and special guests.
	The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	You'll sleep like a baby knowing you'll never miss your favorite guests and topics ever again.
	Remember, a one-year subscription comes out to only 15 cents a day.
	Sign up today at coasttocoastam.com.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	You know, in the days of our parents, they never would have questioned government.
	Nowadays, people are beginning to say, you know what?
	Something's wrong.
	I'm not happy with this.
	I mean, what's going on here?
	Why are they so obsessed with trying to control us?
	Well, I personally think there are tremendous numbers of people out there who know they're not being told the truth, and no one is talking to us, so we need to help each other.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 27th, 1996.
	On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
	On the first time caller line you're on the air.
	Yeah.
	Hello.
	Alright, I am the Chairman of Tri-State Militias.
	You're the Chairman of Tri-State Militias, alright.
	That's absolutely the largest networking group in America.
	And where are you located?
	I'm in New Mexico.
	In New Mexico, and you're the Chairman of Tri-State Militias, alright.
	Yeah, you had John Parsons ahead of my CIC on during the big flare-up over the idiots going to the border to defend it.
	I remember that well, yes.
	Okay.
	Okay?
	Alrighty, I want to hit this.
	Hit it.
	You know, because of work restrictions, I've had to listen intermittently tonight.
	Alright.
	But the one thing that has to be understood is this.
	Alright, look, I'm going to have to ask you, head of the Tri-State Militias or not, to turn your radio off, please.
	Okay, hold on.
	It's outside, actually.
	I'll wait.
	Hold on.
	Alright.
	So this should be worthwhile.
	This is the head of the Tri-State Militias.
	And we're going to find out which three states constitute the tri-state malicious, and then we'll go from there and we'll try and ask him his view of what's going on up near a place called Justice.
	Alright, are you back?
	Yeah, I'm back, Art.
	I know you've hit this point all night long.
	Alright, I just want to establish a couple more things, and that is, what constitutes, what are the three states that constitute the tri-state malicious?
	There's three states of mine, God, family, and country.
	Nationwide organizations networking about a thousand commands together.
	A thousand militia commands?
	Yes.
	All right.
	Okay, I think what really needs to be hit here tonight, and you have hit it, but I'm afraid it's going to get lost in the discussion, is that these individuals in Montana are not being charged for their political beliefs.
	That's right.
	They are not being charged for their freemen activities.
	They are being charged For what is clearly criminal activity.
	Right.
	And what I think these people and anyone who is emulating them across country need to understand that if it's my wife or my daughter that you wave a gun under their nose and attempt to get them to cash a phony check, the FBI is going to be the least of your problems.
	I hear you.
	And look folks, we made a promise of being a more Waco and the militias in this country stand behind that.
	But let's look at what made us angry about Waco.
	The things that made us angry about Waco were the warrants were sealed until after everything was over.
	These warrants haven't been sealed, they've released them.
	We know what they're charged with.
	Two, they were denied access to anybody except the FBI and no way to talk to the press.
	They have full access to the press, they don't want to talk to the press.
	The FBI, and I think primarily because of the work of the patriots across this country, are handling this thing in the best way that they can
	i really believe that i know they're going to be some inside my own movement
	label me a traitor just for saying that but guys we're winning here
	the pressure we put on them has changed the way they're doing business
	uh... and one works out that there's military on the ground it's not true we
	have a man on site right uh... local what i'm afraid of here is one
	big terrible project Mistake.
	And I got a fax a little while ago from a militia group down in Texas saying we're packing up, we're on the way, coming to your aid.
	Why don't you talk to that group and other groups like it that might be thinking of doing that?
	Okay, we've been doing that ever since this situation started.
	We've hit the so-called patriot networks, radio shows, things like that.
	We're telling them loud and clear, fellas, this is a bunch of crooks.
	Regardless of their political beliefs, this is a bunch of crooks.
	The FBI was asked to come in by state officials.
	These people weren't indicted by Janet Reno or the Patriots.
	These people were indicted by a grand jury made up of citizens of Montana.
	You know, let me ask you about something.
	Did you ever see a movie called The Bedford Incident?
	No, I never have.
	Never have.
	It was about a crew of a ship and a captain who had his crew so keyed up And was constantly going at him, 24 hours a day, constantly going at him, constantly going at him, and keeping them right on the very ragged edge, peacetime, Cold War conditions, and at the very end of the movie, the captain was in a discussion with somebody up on the bridge,
	And he said something about, well, if they do this, then we'll fire one.
	And the guy over on the console, you know, was sweat pouring off his face.
	He said, fire one!
	And hit the button, and off she went.
	And I worry that some of these patriot groups are so fired up, so fed with paranoid faxes, and I get them so I know what they are, that somebody's going to reach out there and go, fire one!
	And something awful is going to happen.
	That's what I'm trying to stop.
	Okay.
	Actually, Arlen, let me be real honest with you.
	We have folks on the fringe of this movement who are hollering fire at one all the time.
	Yeah, I know.
	Now, really and truly, you know, the patriot community is very, very responsible.
	We do have these loudmouths out here, but for the most part, everybody but the press ignores them.
	Well, I had one on the show a little while ago.
	Well, listening to him, I think he's probably a baby Freeman.
	Newly introduced.
	He does not understand the philosophy.
	Did you happen to hear the first hour of the program when the Supreme End called in?
	Yes.
	And that's exactly what you run into.
	You know, how many times do you have to keep bringing him back to the subject?
	It's almost a high priest syndrome where they come down and they sprinkle you with water and they give you a half a dozen Latin legal terms and your bulletproof son go out and sin no more.
	Uh, well, or, or, you know, there is coming the new world order and that eclipses... Listen, can you hold on during a break?
	Yes, sir.
	Alright, thank you.
	Please hold on.
	Uh, leader of the tri-state, uh, militia group...
	A great big group, by the way it sounds.
	There's something to say to all of you out there, and it's something you ought to hear.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	The End.
	I'm going to play a little bit of that.
	you I'm going to play a little bit of that.
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 27th, 1996.
	I've got the leader of the tri-state militia on the phone with me.
	Here's the facts I got, and I'm going to read it.
	We'll talk about what kind of mind this comes from.
	Art Bell.
	You were asked if there were Hispanic militias or black militias, etc.
	Have you ever heard of Asian gangs?
	The Jewish Anti-Defamation League, La Raza, Nation of Islam, Crips or Bloods?
	Only difference between them and the Freeman is, Freeman don't have the support and financial backing of the government.
	It's about time whites started fighting back.
	Rod in multicultural Cesspool, California.
	Now, what kind of a mind does that come from?
	Boy, you got me.
	We deal with these people all the time.
	To address that issue, the gentleman who called in said that he'd like to have some minority folks call in.
	I'm not about to call these guys and wake them up, but the head of the Ohio militias is nationally famous.
	He's black.
	My 3rd Brigade commander in my home state is Hispanic.
	Admittedly, there are folks out there who seem that every losing cause in America has done their best to attach themselves to the militias.
	And the thing is, the militias are here for one purpose, one purpose only, and that is to make sure that the Constitution remains the supreme law of the land, both for the citizens and the government.
	But that doesn't include the ability to say, driver's license?
	I don't need one.
	A license plate?
	I make my own.
	Income taxes?
	I don't pay them.
	And then when you question them about it, they say, one world government!
	Well, I think, you know, the one world government thing is something we're going to have to live with as we continue to hear the global this, the global that.
	You know, with Congress now considering attacks on the United States citizens to support the UN, things like that.
	Yes, sir, I know it is a problem, and I recognize, but it's not a global BS excuse for every law you want to break.
	Well, this is the terrible part about this whole common law.
	See, inside the militia movement, we refer to the freemen and those types as writ writers.
	It's a derisive term.
	The thing is, the whole thing of the Common Law Court was probably a good idea.
	But what it has degenerated into is we all meet down at the truck stop, we write out warrants on the back of truck stop napkins from militia leaders and county sheriffs, and we get our buddies on who's the judge to appoint 12 of our other friends to be jurors to forgive us legal debts which we willfully entered into.
	And it's a terrible shame, because I think the common law experiment was probably a good one.
	Well, because it undermines the whole concept, actually.
	Yes, it does.
	It becomes a self-serving... One of the other board members of Tri-State attended one of these meetings in Texas, and simply asked them, have you ever ruled against yourself?
	Hmm.
	Interesting question.
	But the horrible part is, is that these folks go off doing these things that alienate mainstream America.
	They do these things that are absolutely against the law, They issue warrants for militia leaders, but when they get their tail in a crack, like they are now because of criminal behavior, then they start screaming, the militia's going to come help us.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	If the militias are forced to deploy because of tyrannical government, I can assure everyone out there, it's not going to be over bad checks.
	I thank you, my friend.
	Yes, sir.
	And I would like to, if I could, Art, we have an excellent organization.
	People are welcoming it, and the only litmus test is you have to have the faith in that Constitution.
	And would it be possible to give out our 800 number?
	No, I can't do it.
	Only because if it should be wrong, and I have no way at this hour of checking it out, we'd be in a libelous condition because... Okay, I understand.
	Would it be possible sometime during this next hour to give your fax number?
	I'll give my fax number right now, so turn up your radio.
	All right.
	All right.
	Bart, thank you for your time, sir.
	Thank you for your call.
	Glad to give my fax number, and while I'm at it, let me tell you, do not send any more than three pages, because my fax machine, intentionally, for my own protection and that of the forests of America, digests everything into memory before it prints.
	And if it is in receipt of more than three pages, It erases it, and never prints it, and I never see it.
	So, you know, people call me up and say, oh, didn't you get my fax?
	And I'll say, well, what was it about?
	And I'll say, no.
	And I'll say, well, then, how many pages was it?
	It was 21.
	Well, my fax machine won't print that.
	So, do not send, including cover, any more than three pages, or it just never prints.
	but my fax number is area code 702
	727 849
	7-0-2.
	7-2-7.
	84-99.
	Then this, Art.
	I wonder... I wonder, wonder, if the million dollar bounty the free men are offering is paid by one of their certified checks.
	Or maybe it's in the form of goods valued at one million.
	In other words, TV cameras and stuff like that.
	Wild card line, you're on the air.
	Thank you very much.
	Hold on, let me turn off my radio.
	Yes, oh, by all means, get that done.
	Okay.
	Well, is this ours?
	Yes.
	Well, my name is Mark from California.
	Mark of California.
	And I am a Jewish Sovereign Freeman Militiaman.
	You are?
	Yes, sir.
	That's quite a title.
	Mark of California.
	Well, I'm trying to get it all in there.
	Sovereign Militiaman.
	Yeah, and I know exactly what these guys are doing up there, because I actually, according to the last gentleman who I do know, at least by name and voice, I guess I'm one of these writ writers.
	You're a writ writer?
	Yes, sir.
	This country is based on law, is that correct?
	No, no, no, no.
	Are supposed to be based on the Constitution.
	No sir.
	Excuse me.
	You're absolutely off base.
	Am I now?
	If there is a law that is regarded by individuals or states or groups as being unconstitutional, we have the right to challenge it through the system of courts set up to receive those challenges, including, finally, the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	The first thing you have to do is you have to go into jurisdiction of law.
	And what these guys are doing up there is the best thing that could happen to this nation.
	And the reason is now, their foibles on religion, what they want to call them, as long as they don't come into my neck of the woods and I don't have to deal with whether they want to be white, Christian, whatever, that's fine.
	They're only going to affect their local area.
	Here in California, We have a burgeoning sovereign community that is going out and reclaiming this country through law.
	But you have to understand that the Constitution is not this document that everything in the world falls under.
	And when you start to understand what the Constitution is, it is a limitation document.
	It is supposed to limit the federal government to 10 square miles of land in a few territories, a few arsenals and magazines, and some ports for naval vessels.
	That's it!
	Oh, would you think that would include the modern definition of defense of this nation as it is now?
	Well, if you're talking about a standing army, no.
	But if you're talking about a navy, yes.
	And if you're talking about how the states themselves, and the tri-state militia is a great example, The states themselves were supposed to take on the defense of the people, by the people, and for the people.
	Alright, well let's back up a little bit.
	You declared yourself to be, in effect, one of these free men, though, in California.
	Yeah, I've been using the comptroller warrants.
	I know how they work.
	Are you prepared to go up and defend these free men in Montana?
	Hey, these guys can defend themselves.
	You know, have you ever played that game Go?
	You know, the FBI's been watching their place for three years.
	And so the FBI just didn't waltz in there.
	They've known about these guys.
	I got a call from the FBI of Montana myself.
	And so they knew what I was doing, and they knew what they were doing.
	And if they were doing anything illegal, from what I heard, their very first charge, I had to write it down.
	The very first charge that they charged them with was criminal cynicism.
	Criminal what?
	Cynicism.
	There's no such charge.
	Sir, they had to drag it out of a 1945 law book.
	There's criminal conspiracy, not cynicism.
	You can't be charged for an attitude.
	On the news, on the radio, because I listen to talk radio, KSFO, Then, they came out with this charge, and the reason I knew about it...
	It's because I just watched Leroy and his tape of his people up there talking about the financial instruments that they use to try and take back this country.
	And for the last two hours I've been listening to you bash these guys, but you don't even know about what Law Merchant is.
	And I'm sure you don't know the UCC code, and I'm sure you don't know that this country Is based on not only commercial law, which is civil law, it's also based on common law, the right of the citizen to govern himself.
	Ah, to make his own license plates?
	Why would you even need a license to throw away his license and say I don't need a license to operate on the roads?
	Wait a minute, a license is only for a taxi cab driver?
	Wait a minute, to issue million dollar rewards for public officials?
	If you have a lien against the government for a hundred million dollars, why can't you put out a million dollar reward?
	Yeah, you're just like the guy that he talked about writing out rips on the back of napkins.
	Have a good night, sir.
	This is really dangerous.
	You've got a lot of people around with attitudes like this fellow, and you've got a very dangerous situation.
	But I thought, interestingly, the bottom line was, you're going to rush to the raid board.
	No, they can handle their own situation.
	Let them write their own wits.
	I'll be my own writ writer.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	You're on the air.
	Yes.
	Do you want to speak to Art?
	That's me.
	Oh.
	Yeah, I'm down here in Tampa, Florida.
	Yes, sir.
	And there's a lady here in Tampa, Florida.
	She's the editor and publisher of a newspaper that deals with judicial corruption.
	And she got very interested in this case up in Montana.
	She drove up there.
	In fact, the matter is, the only people that she was scared of What she told me was the people in the town and she had some problem.
	The Freeman didn't want to allow her to interview them and frighteningly they did.
	She spent three days there and she came back.
	She was afraid of the people of the town?
	She was more afraid of the people in the town.
	They didn't appreciate her being there investigating.
	I see.
	And she's got all together a different story and the story she's got to tell.
	Yes.
	There evidently is some extensive judicial corruption in that town.
	Really?
	It involves the county attorney who's in, he's the CEO for the phone company up there.
	He owns the bank.
	The way I understand it, Oh, well, maybe he does own the bank.
	Oh, now I see the connection.
	See, these guys apparently lost their farms.
	Not because anybody came rushing in in the middle of the night and took them away, because they couldn't pay.
	Well, anyway, this woman's husband, in fact, when we go off the air, I'd like to give you the phone number, because this lady... No, no, there's nobody here to take any number.
	I'm the only one here, so... Well, could I give you the number on the air?
	No, you can't.
	You can fax it to me if you want.
	But anyway, it's criminal syndicalism, and this woman's husband, William... Oh, that's different, sir.
	That's a syndicate in effect, not cynicism.
	There's no such thing as criminal cynicism.
	Syndicalism.
	Yeah, well, that's different.
	Okay, and Nick Marion was on Primetime Live ABC, and he bragged How there was these people, there was no crime that they committed, so they created the crime, the syndicalism, or whatever, and this particular statute was repealed in Montana 25 years ago.
	Alright, well, I appreciate it.
	You go ahead, you give me that fax number, and I'll follow up and I'll contact her.
	However, the crimes that I've heard that are charged are very common crimes.
	You cannot go around writing bad checks.
	You cannot go around being your own law.
	In other words, going and saying there is hereby a lien of a hundred million dollars against federal government for doing the following, and now we're going to begin writing checks on the bank that we have created, the Bank of the Freemen, and then start to write checks that bounce.
	You ought not go out and hold shotguns on Network television camera crews and steal their cameras.
	That's a real crime.
	That's an actual, real, chargeable offense.
	Criminal activity.
	So, maybe I'm being criminally cynical here, but that is the way I read it, that there is actual criminal uh... activity going on
	goes to go to a m sure sounds great in the middle of the night
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	Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
	First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
	Just phenomenal knowledge.
	I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to on radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
	But, you know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself,
	Do you think, George, that common citizens such as you or I really have any hope towards the future of any privacy or
	anything else?
	I think we do.
	I think eventually so many people will see the light.
	See what you see.
	See what I see.
	That eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
	And I think that we do have a future.
	And we're going to win in the long run.
	It's going to be bumpy along the way.
	It's not going to be easy.
	But we will get there.
	That's my take.
	And you know what?
	As long as I can continue on the airwaves and tell people this, I shall.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 27th, 1996.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Well, hiya, Kentucky.
	Hello there.
	East of the Rockies here, Oklahoma.
	Yes, sir.
	One of your callers last night gave you a little bit of incorrect information on that lunar eclipse.
	I know.
	It's going to be visible mainly in the eastern portion of the U.S.
	as a full eclipse.
	Right.
	And in the west to a lesser degree as you move west.
	Yeah, it's going to rise in totality, O.
	You guys out on the West Coast aren't going to get to see it.
	I know.
	We're always cheated out of everything.
	Elections, comets.
	Oh, I don't know.
	It's been raining for three days here, so we haven't seen any comets.
	It ought to be pretty good that day.
	Something about that day that's neat, if you're in a position to see it, is to stand where you can view each horizon because the sun will set and the moon will rise at exactly the same time on April 3rd.
	And the moon, of course, will be rising in totality.
	That ought to be something to see.
	Those guys at Montana ought to get out and look at the night skies and calm down.
	The rest of the country ought to do it, too.
	Well, they've got big skies out there.
	They've got good, clear skies, but boy, there's nothing calm about what's going on.
	Certainly not.
	It's just a mess.
	It is.
	And I hope that everybody listened carefully to that tri-state militia leader in New Mexico, because this is, you know, I can see what's going to happen here.
	This is building coming to a head.
	Number one national story now.
	And there are militias around the country and a lot of them are on the edge, as I described, and they're going to start moving toward Montana and the FBI is trying their damnedest to wait.
	One of the factors that made a move in congressional hearings, we know it's true, in Waco was the fact they heard people were headed their way with guns.
	All we can hope for is that we don't get a repeat of a couple of hundred years ago, you know, that little shot heard around the world that nobody knows where it came from.
	That's right.
	No, that's right.
	That's all it'll take.
	That's all it'll take.
	And even if it's something like this, which does not deserve a shot heard around the world, the shot might be made And so that's what I'm trying to do this morning, I guess, is to educate everybody.
	Listen carefully to the shots you hear, you know?
	That's true.
	Act carefully.
	Understand the banner that you're raising before you raise it with your gun and go off marching.
	That's very true.
	Does that make sense to you?
	It makes sense to me.
	Well, good.
	If it makes sense in Oklahoma, then it ought to make sense just about anywhere.
	Well, I would think so.
	Thank you, my friend.
	You have a good night.
	Take care.
	Oklahoma, center of the country.
	Kind of like Peoria.
	Maybe I ought to invite Peoria.
	If it makes sense in Peoria, or plays, excuse me, that's playing that you do in Peoria, right?
	Then it ought to play just about anywhere.
	Anyhow, that's what we're talking about.
	There are other stories I'm following and I'll try and update those for you after the news.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	Don't think you know me yet.
	Rain or shine!
	Oh, say! Can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
	Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly
	streaming?
	And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
	Oh, say! Can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 27, 1996.
	You're listening to the largest live overnight talk radio program in America.
	Yes, calling from Anchorage.
	Yes, sir.
	actually west of the rockies your on the air
	we're just not wildcard liner on the air hello
	is correct record yes sir does it just make sense that uh...
	the people who would fight hardest to see a conspiracy or that those who are
	part of it.
	Oh, I suppose you would say that those who are part of it would not acknowledge it.
	They would probably ridicule others who saw a conspiracy, wouldn't you think?
	Well, there are those who see a conspiracy at every turn.
	You know, we're a nation of corporate politicians.
	Well, we're a nation of business, yes, and so corporations have a... Corporate politicians.
	Very prominent... Yes, yes, corporate politicians.
	Politicians who pay attention and give more weight to corporations and to business interests in general, and rightfully pay a lot of attention, not exclusive attention, but a lot of attention to those with power and money.
	We are a nation moved by those with power and money, and yet A nation that still allows more individual freedom than any other that I know of.
	You know, there's one thing that bothers all these corporate politicians.
	When you start talking about the subject of honest elections and counting the ballots at the precincts instead of putting them in a machine so that the computer counts them, they get real nervous.
	Every one of them does.
	Really?
	It's just not a politically correct thing to talk about.
	Tell me something.
	No, we'll talk about it.
	I don't mind.
	We'll talk about anything.
	you think this last uh... a series of a republican primaries across the country
	or was vote fraud i think that uh...
	that's a great group of people that i have a straight bottomed out there that
	is a straight question It deserves a straight answer.
	I'm saying that if the politicians are sold out, then the whole system is sold out.
	I'll try it again.
	Do you think this last series of Republican primaries was vote fraud?
	It could well have been.
	Could have been?
	I can't say that it was, but one thing we'd know for sure, we'd know it wasn't fraud, if we counted the ballots at the precinct.
	Well, in a lot of states, sir, and localities, they were so counted.
	Pardon me?
	In a lot of states and localities, they were so counted.
	They should be counted everywhere that way.
	Well, but if the allegations, and I know exactly where you're coming from, and you know I know, if your allegations had any substance to them, Then in many, many areas where they were in fact hand-counted, there should have been at least a very significantly different outcome, or an outcome that would have shown more votes for Patrick Buchanan.
	How many places have they hand-counted?
	For Patrick Buchanan?
	Many.
	Many.
	Well, in what percentage?
	I couldn't give you a percentage.
	No, but they should be a hundred percent.
	It should be.
	You don't put them in a machine and say, the machine, our corporate politicians will make sure everything comes out right.
	Tell me something, you think Pat Buchanan was cheated out of the nomination by boat fraud, sir?
	I think Pat Buchanan is as phony as the rest of them.
	Oh, you do?
	Yeah.
	Okay, then if they're all phony, what difference does it make?
	If the election is phony, what difference does it make whether I vote or not?
	Goodbye.
	You know, um, so not only then is the electoral process itself, the election process itself, a fraud, but as far as you're concerned, all of the, uh, there were a lot of Buchanan supporters who thought vote fraud.
	So that's, that's why I was taking that angle.
	So I threw that name out.
	He's always a fraud too.
	So as far as he's concerned, all the candidates are frauds.
	And the election is a fraud.
	I'm sorry.
	No, I don't see a conspiracy around every political corner that you obviously see one behind.
	That's true.
	I certainly don't.
	I've got a couple things I've got to get done, so I better get to doing them.
	I'm very familiar with that argument.
	If you really got right down to it, he is the one he was talking about.
	He sees conspiracy behind every single corner.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	K. Kim Erfurt in California.
	Good morning.
	You know, Arthur, I thought that our government was based on a system of checks and balances.
	So it is supposed to be, yes.
	Well, that guy needs to go back to like 8th grade history.
	I mean, he claims to be so educated, but that's something I learned in the 8th grade.
	You know, and it's beautiful the way our government keeps its balance and meets out justice with the most equity possible.
	You know what I mean?
	Nothing's perfect.
	Our system of justice and courts and constitutional law is not perfect.
	Everybody knows that.
	Everybody knows you've got to keep a carefully cocked eye, not a cocked gun, cocked eye, on the U.S.
	government and what they do, state government, local governments, but somehow That has been perverted lately to mean it's time to go to war.
	Well, yeah, it's like they've fallen prey to this demon of paranoia that's snaking its way through our country.
	They're weak-minded.
	Demon of paranoia snaking its way through the country.
	You've got that right.
	I know.
	And you want to know what this whole New World Order thing smacks up to me?
	McCarthyism.
	Only now, this time, it's the citizens looking for every little boogeyman in every bush of the Federal government, you know, ready to jump out at them and take away their driver's license or whatever.
	Well, their driver's license or, you know, their license plates or, you know, the fact that they couldn't pay their mortgage and their farm got taken away and so it's the one world order.
	What a bunch of crap.
	Yeah, well, don't shoot, vote.
	Yeah, that's exactly right.
	Thank you very much.
	Listen to this.
	The following paragraphs are excerpts from an AP article that showed up on my service.
	Jordan, Montana, AP.
	Montana neighbors want militants out.
	Or if you're up near the Canadian border, out.
	Residents who had dismissed the Freemen as kooks or freeloaders began to get angry in 1994 when the group refused to pay taxes and bank loans, refused to move off foreclosed property, threatening to arrest or shoot neighboring ranchers who graze their sheep and cattle on the land, Before the FBI arrived, many people thought the ranchers would have to take matters into their own hands.
	The Freeman's cause has attracted right-wing militia members from outside the area, worrying and angering townspeople.
	So when the FBI finally, and finally is the word everybody used, moved against them Monday, the overwhelming reaction here was relief.
	At a community hall meeting Wednesday, About three dozen ranchers, some still wearing muddy coveralls smeared with blood from calving barns, delivered a blunt message to outside militia groups that want to join the standoff.
	You are not wanted.
	You are not welcome.
	That seem clear to you?
	Well, it seems like government propaganda to me, Art.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Charlie, Libro in California.
	Yes.
	Let me ask you a question.
	How do you think we got to this point concerning the divisions between those military types on the far right?
	Well, you've been a lot of help yourself.
	Oh?
	What do you mean by that?
	Well, I mean that you're so far out over on the other side that you've pushed people.
	Well, my thing is this, okay?
	This is a country of law and order.
	And I believe that even if you're on the far right, you have a right to say whatever you want.
	You can criticize the government.
	But when you start endorsing violence, you know, you can say, you know, I hate Bill Clinton, I think Bill Clinton's a lousy president, so forth and so on.
	But when you say, you know what, I think we should blow Bill Clinton's head off, or we should march into Washington, D.C.
	and start hanging congressmen, that's when you've crossed over the line.
	Way over.
	For some reason, I don't know when it happened, but there are more and more of these people who have made the decision to cross the line.
	And I don't think that that's our fault.
	I don't think... You know, I've worked for the federal government for... I know, Charlie, and you're calling for reason now, and that's fine.
	That's what I've been doing all night.
	But the problem, Charles, is that you're so damn far over the line on the other side, that you have pushed people that you're complaining about... See, because I don't follow you how I put...
	Individuals like myself push people.
	Maybe you can give me a clear example.
	Oh, I could give you so many examples that people throw up out there.
	I could do a montage of your calls in the past.
	Well, I can't recall ever.
	Maybe you can give me, if you've got that many, maybe you can give me one.
	Oh, Charles.
	You know, all I'm saying is that I've called... Oh, Charles of he would fight with anybody else's blood, but not himself.
	Look, I've called in the past and I've said, yes, if someone is collecting a large amount of weapons, yes, they should be investigated.
	Yes, that's right.
	If they decide to draw those weapons... Oh, Charles!
	Oh, Charles of the people at Waco got what they deserved.
	I mean, you wanted examples.
	I could go on.
	You know something?
	When people decide to declare war on the government, let's not forget, they were the guys who blew up those federal buildings.
	They were the guys like Linda Thomas who decided... That's Thompson.
	Thompson chose.
	He decided to make those radical, in my opinion, terrorist statements.
	They were the guys who drew first blood.
	As far as I'm concerned, you know, this reminds me of what was happening during the time of
	the Civil War when those radicals in the South were trying to blame the Federals.
	This is not the Federals' fault.
	They're the ones who started this.
	They are the ones who continue to press this issue.
	These guys are right now in that building refusing to come out, but they're the ones who said, hey, you know what?
	Let's go out and start killing officials in their state.
	Charles, I really can't do this.
	I know too much of your history.
	Stay right where you are.
	I'll find somebody for you here.
	I just can't do it.
	Can't do it.
	Now, what I would like is a free man or free man sympathizer to debate Charles.
	Should be educational, and if not, at least entertaining.
	What do you think?
	So, if you are a free man or a free man sympathizer, and I know there's lots of you out there, because I've sure been getting lots of calls, Call me now on any other line you can get through on.
	Everybody else hang up.
	I want a free man or a free man sympathizer to debate Charlie.
	Any other line.
	Everybody else hang up because I'm going to screen calls and you'll just be wasting your money.
	So, any line you can get through on.
	I want a free man.
	Maybe even the one who called earlier.
	The one who said that China was the freer place.
	Or somebody else who would like to represent the free man group more accurately, if you thought that was not accurate.
	Call now on any line.
	I will screen the calls during this coming commercial set, and we'll put you on the air with Charlie.
	and as I said, if it's not informative, it's bound to be entertaining.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	You know, in the days of our parents, they never would have questioned government.
	Nowadays, people are beginning to say, you know what?
	Something's wrong.
	I'm not happy with this.
	I mean, what's going on here?
	Why are they so obsessed with trying to control us?
	Well, I personally think there are tremendous numbers of people out there who know they're not being told the truth, and no one is talking to us, so we need to help each other.
	The new version of the Coast to Coast AM app is here, now available for Android as well as iPhone.
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	Okay, I'm continuing to screen calls now, and we'll see if we can find somebody who would like to debate Charles.
	Are you a free man sympathizer?
	the okay arm on continuing to screen calls now and uh... we'll
	see if we can find somebody who would like to uh... debate charles are you a
	free man sympathizer where are you?
	Newhall, California.
	Newhall?
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	Uh, what is your first name?
	David.
	David.
	And, uh, David, uh, what, uh, what is it that, uh, that you believe with regard to the Freeman?
	Well, first of all, there are constitutions that's about three levels of authority over this government.
	Okay, can you get closer to your phone or something?
	Sure, hold on a second.
	Okay, the Constitution sets about three levels of authority over this government.
	It sets about federal, state, and the commonwealth.
	Alright, alright, hold on.
	You sound like the right guy.
	So, you win the prize here.
	Will P. Alright, Will P. is right.
	Alright, Charles, are you there?
	Charlie?
	Oh, wait a minute here.
	There he is.
	Charlie, are you there?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Charlie?
	Charlie?
	No, just don't.
	Wait a minute.
	Hold on here.
	Let's see if we can get this all straight.
	Let's see.
	Charlie, I guess you're here, aren't you?
	Yes.
	You are.
	All right.
	Yes.
	All right, then.
	Let's see.
	Here is your debater.
	Gentlemen, it's all yours.
	Yes, I was simply saying that no society, no society can allow violent protest.
	We're a free society.
	We can allow We can allow people to say whatever they want to say as long as they don't get into the violent end of it.
	But when they start reaching that point and we allow it, our society will collapse.
	There is no question about that.
	The fact is that the ultimate authority over this country is the people itself.
	Alright sir, you're going to have to get close to your phone and speak up real loud or we're not going to be able to hear you.
	Okay?
	Okay, the ultimate authority over this country is not the government.
	It's the people itself.
	I agree with that.
	Absolutely.
	In the Constitution, Article 10 of the Bill of Rights says about three levels of authority.
	Federal government, state, and then the people.
	Now the people, if those officials of the federal government or the state are not acting responsibly, if they're violating the Constitution, the people have a right To take action against that.
	Let me ask you a question.
	Who are these people who arbitrarily decided?
	What if you have a group of 10 people or 50 people who arbitrarily decide, forget the fact that maybe millions of people think that it's not gotten so bad that we need to pull our guns out, that we can still go to the voting booth.
	But you have, say, 50, 60, 100 people who decide arbitrarily that it's gotten so bad that they need to pull out their weapons and start firing on federal officials, start killing city officials, which is what these guys in Montana wanted to do.
	You're telling me that that is constitutionally covered?
	I'm telling you, you're out of your mind.
	Constitution itself sets about the, uh...
	Punishment for treason.
	Oh, come on.
	You tell me we're in the Constitution.
	That's about the punishment for treason.
	Jefferson himself said about the punishment for treason.
	You tell me we're in the Constitution.
	Let me make my point.
	If the people decide that these people are acting irresponsibly, they have a right, a 1,000-year-old right, under common law, to set up a common court in order to try these people.
	And how the hell?
	We gotta bring them in, don't we?
	We have to arrest them, don't we?
	Don't we?
	People don't have to be arrested right now.
	Are you telling me that if I threaten the President of the United States, I say, you know what?
	I'm going to go out, I'm going to blow Bill Clinton's brains out, and then I'm going to go into the White House and start hanging U.S.
	Senators, and that nobody's going to stop me, and then I start collecting guns, that the U.S.
	government shouldn't do a damn thing about it?
	Have you lost your mind?
	Have you lost your mind?
	Have you read the Second Amendment?
	What is that amendment there for?
	Do you know why the shot that was heard around the world was fired?
	It wasn't fired because of...
	Hold it!
	it was a part of the thing that was going around patna before
	it was fired when the english troops went down there to take those
	people don't like that you've got the you can you can mumble jumble about it all
	you want part of the house i don't like this left-wing area caller colorado the
	matter is all that the carpool all that
	all that this is our the other part
	The two of you, hold on during the break, all right?
	Can you both hold?
	Sure.
	Yes.
	All right, good.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	I'm going to be hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	For more information, please visit www.fema.gov.
	ba da ba da ba daaa Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Can I pick the signs for my apocalyptic bumper music, or what?
	Alright, coming up a resumption of the debate.
	♪♪ We're talking about what's going on in Montana.
	Romeo and Juliet And elsewhere.
	Back to it.
	You two are back on the air.
	It's all yours.
	Go ahead.
	Well, I was simply saying that as a federal employee, I believe that I'm personally obliged to protect the people of this country.
	And protecting the people of this country means protecting them against extremist groups.
	Did you swear an oath to that?
	Or did you swear an oath to support the Constitution?
	I swore an oath to both.
	You swore an oath to support the Constitution of the United States?
	That's correct.
	Tell me, where in the Constitution does it allow Congress, the President, or anybody else to send federal police into Montana?
	Where in the Constitution does it allow them to do that?
	First of all, when there is insurrection in any state in this Union... Oh, it's an insurrection?
	Let me give you an example.
	I will give you a clear example.
	Do you remember in 1954, Eisenhower was President of the United States?
	We're not talking about Eisenhower.
	No, no, no, no.
	You wanted an example?
	Let me give you... I will give you an example, and this was taken in court... Who have they shot at up in Montana?
	I will give you an example.
	just tell me who shot at in Montana?
	I'm giving you the example of it. It's clear and simple.
	What happened in 1954 is that these black people...
	We're talking about 1996.
	No, no, no. We're talking... Let me give you an example.
	Who have these people shot at?
	These people have been... are clearly...
	They are the ones who are...
	They set up a common law court.
	Wait a minute. They are the ones...
	They set up a common law court and they tried officials for violating their constitutional rights.
	Oh, come on.
	Let's get this straight.
	These guys in Montana have threatened to violently attempt to overthrow officials who were duly elected.
	What is the punishment for treason in this country?
	Who were duly elected.
	Our system is that if you have a duly elected Government official, whether it be a state, whether it be a state governor, or whether it be a senator, is the way you get them out of office, you either impeach them for wrongdoings, or you vote them out.
	You do not kill them.
	Who set up that government?
	Who set, the people of the United States of America set up that government!
	Okay, so the people set up the government that's working for them, right?
	That's correct.
	Okay, now, and the Tenth Amendment says the power is not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, No, prohibited to it, to the state, so reserved to state and the people.
	And the people.
	That's three levels of authority.
	Now the people, those people in that township, in Montana, just this township.
	Hold it a second!
	Here's what you can't get through that thick skull of yours.
	We are not talking about the majority of people of the people of Montana.
	We don't know that.
	We're not there.
	We don't know that.
	We're not there.
	These people are out there in the middle of nowhere.
	They set up a township.
	They formed a government sitting right there.
	If you look at the signs that have been on TV, the signs say Justice Township USA.
	You're telling me that the majority of the people in the state of Montana want to kill their public officials?
	Is that what you're telling me?
	I'm telling you those people on Justice Township Have said that these people are violating the Constitution and they have a right to take them to a common law court and try those people under the Constitution.
	This is a group that does not represent the thinking of the foreign nation.
	Alright, alright, alright.
	Hold it guys, one at a time.
	This is a group that in no way, and I dare you, I dare you get on the radio and say that the majority of the people in the state of Montana are in favor of this type of violent activity.
	That is a bunch of crap.
	The majority of people in Nazi Germany was in favor of the Nazi Party.
	They voted a minority.
	Does that make the Nazi Party right?
	It makes any group, hold it, any group... Does that make the Nazi Party right?
	The Nazi, let me tell you something, the Nazi Party in this country, as long as they don't, as long as they don't talk about violence... We're talking Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler.
	As long as the Nazi Party in this country does not talk about violently overthrowing our system of government, the Nazi Party is welcome in this country just like any other party.
	But when you start to talk about violently overthrowing our system and actually start making steps to do that, yes, your butt is going to get arrested and taken in and you should get arrested and taken in.
	They are talking about trying people under the Constitution for treason in common law courts Which the Constitution itself gives them a right to do.
	You gotta arrest them to do that!
	Show me in the Constitution where it says you can't.
	Oh, that's what these federal guys are doing.
	They're going in there.
	Tell me why these guys should not be arrested.
	You tell me why these guys should not be arrested.
	Tell me why anyone who threatens public officials and then starts making steps to do that should not be arrested.
	Should they be arrested if somebody commits treason and they go after those people.
	If you commit treason, of course you should be arrested!
	Who's going to arrest those people?
	Who's going to arrest those people?
	Has somebody been beating you with a stupid stick or something?
	First of all, you sat there... You're out there with these left-wing ideals... First of all... You're going to support the Constitution... First of all, you sat there and you told me... If somebody commits treason... Hold it!
	Can I go and arrest that person?
	Hold it!
	First of all, you told me that the majority of people in Montana believe in violently over... No, I didn't say that at all.
	That's your left-wing theory, which is absolutely ridiculous.
	Now you're telling...
	I didn't tell you nothing about the majority of people.
	I told you the people on that township, on that ranch out there...
	Are supporting what they're doing.
	I don't give a damn what they're supporting.
	If you've got a mind... If you've got people who are threatening the United States with either the United States government or a state government, our government not only has the right to take action, they have an obligation to take action.
	Because they are protecting not only my interests, they're protecting your interests.
	If that government is operating illegally, by your own oath, You are obligated to go and arrest the people operating illegally.
	You're telling me that a group of say a hundred people out of the entire population of Montana they can sit there and with their high intelligence decide whether their government is going against them or not and the federal government should listen to that minority and not the majority of people in Montana who think that the election process in Montana still works.
	So you're telling me That they haven't proved to you that these people are acting treasonous in this area?
	I don't know.
	I'm telling you that there is enough information to take these people in.
	What article of the Constitution allows the federal government to send the FBI in there inside the United States What article of the Constitution allows the federal government to do that?
	The United States federal government has an obligation to act any time some group tries to violently overthrow either the state or federal government.
	And for you to sit there and say that's not true is ridiculous.
	Let me say something else.
	On the high seas, such as piracy, felonies committed on the high seas.
	Those are only laws that the federal government are allowed to enforce.
	Wait a minute.
	They cannot enforce any laws... According to your philosophy, maybe Lee Harvey Oswald shouldn't have been arrested, because he thought that the U.S.
	government had gotten out of control.
	He thought maybe if I killed John F. Kennedy, everything would be cool and dandy.
	Maybe Lee Harvey Oswald shouldn't have been arrested.
	But there's a difference between Lee Harvey Oswald and the free man up here.
	The difference is that those free men took these people to court.
	And if the government wants to say that's not right, then the government should have appealed their decision to a higher court to begin with.
	You're telling me that when some group goes out and threatens public officials that the only thing that we can do is take them to court?
	What threat did they issue?
	We have them on tape threatening public officials.
	They said that we're going to At least the way I've heard it is that they said we're going to bring these people down here.
	We're going to try them.
	If they're convicted, we're gonna hang them.
	What is the punishment for freezing under the Constitution?
	I don't know if you understand this concept.
	Do you understand what the Constitution is?
	I think it's still in force.
	Hold it a second.
	Hold it a second.
	I don't know if you understand this concept, but I've been told that hanging people is a violent act.
	That kidnapping people and taking them to some ranch somewhere and hanging them could be considered, oh, I don't know, violent?
	There's still a couple of states that allow hanging as punishment, I believe.
	Not by some group of people who get together and decide, oh you know what, we've got about 12 people here, and we think that Pete Wilson, the governor of California, is a communist, so we're going to just go up there and hang him.
	Are you like crazy or something?
	He's right over there with you, and it's nationalized.
	You know what, you are a perfect example.
	You are a perfect example.
	Tell me, where in the Constitution does it deny those people the right, the people that created this country, the people that created this government, to form Of course!
	This is what you can't get through your thick skull!
	You can't argue this because you can't point to the Constitution and say they don't have the right to do that.
	When it says right there they do have the right to do it.
	Oh come on, you're telling me... And you're a federal official sitting there... You're telling me... You're telling me that it's in the Constitution that any little group can get together and decide to kill a public official and that's perfectly okay.
	That's what you're telling me right now.
	No, they can take them to court and if they are convicted in that court of treason under the Constitution, under those rules which the Founding Fathers set down for being treasonous, And they can punish them exactly as they please.
	In other words, if Louis Farrakhan and say six of his guys got together and decided, oh, you know what, we think Bob Dole, who's on the right, is a radical Nazi, and so we're going to take him and we're going to hang him, that they have a right to do that according to the Constitution, even though the majority of American people don't think that's true.
	If they set up the courts in the right way.
	Under the common law.
	You are a 1,000-year-old common law.
	Alright, alright.
	On that note of obvious disagreement, I'm going to end this because it is never going to end on its own.
	Thank you both.
	That was, in fact, very entertaining.
	We'll be right back.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 27th, 1996.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yeah, I'm on the air now.
	That's true.
	Okay, this is Mike out of Missoula.
	Yes, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
	Okay.
	I'm going to take that out, because you started to give me a last name there.
	Okay.
	And we're going to start fresh all over again.
	It's Mike from Missoula, Montana.
	Yes, sir.
	The very state in question.
	Yes.
	Well, you're on the air.
	Okay, I just wanted to say that it sounds like Montana is getting a real bad name, and there's a lot of good people up here, and those people over there, Mountain's over there.
	They're doing the crime, so let them do the time.
	But there's a lot of caring people up here.
	And there's an HBO documentary out on Missoula that was filmed in Missoula about a hospice organization.
	And it shows that there is caring people here in Missoula.
	Of course there are.
	And yeah, Montana in general is getting a bad rap.
	You're absolutely right.
	But you know what, sir?
	Of all the phone calls, and I've taken billions of them from the state of Montana this morning, so far not one person has come on and said, boy, we're really behind those free men.
	Everybody has come on and said, thank God the FBI is here.
	It sure took an awful long time, but we're glad they're here.
	Yes, I am glad they're here.
	I hope they take care of this.
	They did the crime.
	I hope they have to do the time.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	That's Missoula, Montana.
	Heard from all over Montana this morning.
	And as I said, so far, all of the support for the ideas or ideals or whatever they are of this group have come from elsewhere.
	And without very much intellectual strength buoying them up, I might add.
	But if you listen to the people from Montana, They're glad the FBI is there.
	And this is not some great issue of freedom.
	This is an issue of a little town, a little area where some people have been terrorized, frankly.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Darryl from Portland.
	Hello, Darryl.
	Hey, number two in line at the book signing.
	Number two in line?
	Holy mackerel!
	That's better than two thousand.
	No doubt about it.
	Actually, the reason I was number two is obviously because of the two guys right up front, the one with the gun and the one with the mace that was kicked out and boosted us up there a little bit.
	I know, they said they had a basket of guns, a basket of mace, a basket of knives.
	Yeah, well I'll tell you Art, I carry a concealed weapon myself and have a license for it, but I can also feed.
	And so when they put the signs out, I put mine in the car.
	Well, that was the obvious thing to do.
	Well, you know, the two guys that were there in line, I think they were pretty nice guys.
	They probably, uh...
	I mean, no harm, but a lot of people were taking taxis and stuff and getting dropped off there.
	They probably had no place to put it.
	Well, the way I understand it, security was glad to hold anything like that for them?
	No.
	The guy, he asked the guy if he could put it in the security office.
	We stand it right there.
	Yeah?
	I see.
	But they didn't want to hold guns, huh?
	for any guns or anything like that.
	They may have took mace or something like that or pocketknife and held on to it.
	But they didn't want to hold guns, huh?
	No, they didn't want nothing to do with the guns.
	Well, I can't say I blame them.
	I'm carpooling here with my buddy.
	We're the carpool guys and I'd like to hand you over to Bill for a second.
	Hand me over to Bill, huh?
	Alright, being handed to Bill.
	Yeah, Art!
	Yes, Bill?
	Yeah, hey, I was the third in line, right behind Daryl.
	Okay.
	It was excellent, it was excellent.
	We liked it a lot.
	Well, if I could ask you a question about that, I had, uh, I bought the audiobook.
	Yes, sir.
	And, uh, did you sign any of those before that day?
	No, um, the only audiobooks I signed, I signed at the, uh, at the event.
	I'm the first guy signed.
	Well, that's a fact, then.
	That's excellent.
	That's excellent.
	Well, hold on to it.
	Maybe someday it'll be worth the price you paid for it.
	Why?
	It's not for sale!
	I'll just keep listening over and over and over.
	But that was an excellent day.
	Yeah, I would like to see you back here someday for whatever reason.
	Well, maybe it'll happen.
	All right.
	We'd like to hear that.
	All right.
	Take care, my friend.
	And I'm glad.
	It was a very enjoyable thing.
	Of course, nobody Possibly no.
	That it was going to be as big as it was.
	I sure didn't.
	It was incredible.
	Again, I apologize to those who didn't make it in after 4 o'clock when the convention center authority decided they had to close the doors.
	It was just... You have no way of knowing how many people were in there.
	That was at 4 o'clock.
	And there were enough people already in the building and snaking their way through the building Um, so that I continue to sign books fast as I could until 8.30 at night.
	So, I again apologize to those who didn't make it in.
	I'm sorry about that.
	Nobody could have anticipated it would be that gigantic.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	It's Leonard.
	Uh, I wish you and your listeners could have been enjoying their selected panel like I have tonight.
	It's really interesting what I've discovered.
	Well, Leonard, you're constantly calling us with new discoveries made via the Selective Tenor.
	Now, let me tell you what I've got tonight.
	The thing that we need to be looking for the most is what is going to bring democide on America like it did Russia.
	Now, how did you get that out of the Selective Tenor, Leonard?
	Because as I was listening to different radio stations, And I could pick out the different stations.
	If I was just trying to pick out some certain thing, like you got over the air tonight, you got a half a dozen different viewpoints of all the same thing.
	Now why the difference?
	And that's where the trouble comes in.
	Now when you start using your common sense, why your patriots love you, and when you start rambling off into human reasoning, you go around and around and they get disgusted with you.
	Well, Leonard, that's just the way it runs sometimes.
	You know, sometimes people love me, sometimes they hate me, Leonard.
	Well, let me try to get across what I'm trying to get across to you.
	Well, you just did.
	A white girl is one thing, and this other one is another.
	You're damn right, Leonard.
	Thank you for the call.
	But frankly, Leonard, I don't give a rat's behind whether people like me or not.
	I say what I feel.
	And I will continue to do that, Leonard.
	And you can select a way as you wish.
	But you will continue to hear me say exactly what I feel.
	And sometimes, Leonard, I'm sure you'll feel that I'm just making lots of common sense.
	And other times, Leonard, when you apparently disagree, as my interpretation of your comments would indicate that you just did, you will consider it trash.
	It's kind of like truth or trash, Leonard, and that's just something you're going to have to learn to live with on God's green earth.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi Art, I want to congratulate you on a very well written book and also I want to mention, did you get to catch a tape of Sunday's Mars show on the CBS network?
	No, but I've had a couple of calls about it and I hear it was very interesting and there was one point where A lady astronaut looked over and said something like, oh my god, or something.
	It was a Russian astronaut.
	Yeah.
	Or cosmonaut or whatever.
	Right.
	And everything goes blank.
	It's right up Richard Holmgren's alley.
	I know.
	I had several calls about that before the program.
	I missed the movie.
	I'm sorry I did.
	Maybe somebody will send it to me.
	That's what we're hoping, you know, to reaffirm that you do get a copy.
	I don't have a copy yet, so I'd love one.
	If I can find you a coffee, then we'll trade for the without warning.
	Without warning.
	All right, sir.
	Take care.
	Thank you, sir.
	Thank you for the call.
	First time caller on line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone with the wind.
	West of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	Hello.
	Yeah, I was just...
	Wishing you'd be a little more open-minded on this legal issue.
	This is as open as talk radio gets.
	Don't worry about my mind.
	You say what you want to say.
	Well, just to investigate some of these legal claims that some of these guys are making.
	Well, the best way to do that is in a real court of law.
	Well, researching it by going to the law libraries All right, thank you very much for the call and the little pep talk.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	We're out of time.
	You get the honors.
	You get to say goodnight, America.
	Goodnight, America.
	Where are you saying that from?
	Portland, Oregon.
	From Portland, Oregon and from the high desert, thank you all.
	Clock says we gotta go.

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