Art Bell - 19960328_Art-Bell-SIT-Open-Lines-More-Freemen-Debate
Aired: 1996-03-28
Duration: 02:45:21


=== Good Evening, York City (15:18) ===

[00:00:15]  Welcome to Art Bell somewhere in time.
[00:00:19]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 28, 1996.
[00:00:23]  From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning across this great land of ours and beyond, actually, worldwide via the net.
[00:00:34]  And I'll tell you all about that in a moment.
[00:00:36]  And our 800 international line, we're going to give it another try tonight.
[00:00:41]  Thanks to AT ⁇ T, they've been working their high knees off, trying to get it working.
[00:00:48]  They may have it.
[00:00:49]  If not tonight, then within the next couple of days, they think they'll have it all straightened out.
[00:00:54]  I'll be telling you about that.
[00:00:56]  Richard Hoagland is here for an update to tell you what went on in Washington with Sarah McLendon and company.
[00:01:04]  So we're going to be doing that.
[00:01:06]  A lot of stuff is coming up, in other words.
[00:01:09]  The Montana standoff continues.
[00:01:11]  We'll get back to that.
[00:01:13]  And a lot more.
[00:01:14]  So it's going to be a full night of live, unscreened, spontaneous.
[00:01:19]  You name it, talk radio, and we'll talk about it.
[00:01:24]  That's the fun of it all, I guess.
[00:01:25]  Anyway, listen, where to begin?
[00:01:28]  Let me hit the international line right here at the beginning, just in case it might be working.
[00:01:34]  Here's the deal.
[00:01:35]  If you're in a foreign country somewhere, and that may well be the case because, of course, we're now carried on real audio by WPSL in Port St. Lucie, Florida, and WOAI in San Antonio, Texas.
[00:01:50]  The one radio station that probably doesn't need the internet but has it nevertheless.
[00:01:58]  You can pick us up on real audio.
[00:02:00]  If you have a computer and you have the appropriate program software, which is freeware, you can get it for free up on the net.
[00:02:06]  On my webpage, you can jump over and you can listen to the program from any obscure corner of the world from which you can access the internet.
[00:02:15]  So let me tell you about our international line.
[00:02:19]  Doesn't mean it's working.
[00:02:21]  They're working on it, but they might have it.
[00:02:24]  They might have it.
[00:02:25]  So if you are in a foreign country other than Canada or Mexico, try calling your AT ⁇ T America Direct Access Number.
[00:02:39]  And you can get that locally or you should know what it is.
[00:02:41]  Your AT ⁇ T direct access number.
[00:02:45]  Japan would be 0039111.
[00:02:49]  The United Kingdom would be 0500890011.
[00:02:56]  That's a lot of numbers.
[00:02:58]  Then I guess you will get a dial tone and then simply call our 800 number internationally.
[00:03:05]  1-800-893-0903.
[00:03:11]  Let me give that to you one more time.
[00:03:13]  1-800-893-0903.
[00:03:20]  I guess I better give it once more.
[00:03:21]  Internationally, if it's working, 1-800-893-0903.
[00:03:33]  And we'll see if we get any international calls.
[00:03:36]  They may not have it together yet, but we thought this morning we'd give it a try and see what happened.
[00:03:44]  Now, my internet webpage, which will contain some photographs that didn't go up very well the first time, but are up there just fine now.
[00:03:55]  Photographs of the moon that Richard Hoagland provided or the real audio network or whatever else.
[00:04:03]  By the way, the Portland book signing photographs are up there now as of tonight.
[00:04:09]  So there's a lot of new stuff on the webpage.
[00:04:11]  It is www.artbell.com.
[00:04:17]  That's www.artbell.com.
[00:04:20]  And by the way, also up there, I'm told by my webmaster, is an actual written summary, not summary, but word-for-word, verbatim transcript of the last time Richard Hoagland was on that you can get up on the webpage, all of it.
[00:04:38]  That's www.artbell.com.
[00:04:41]  If you have a web browser, just enter Art Bell and it will lead you forth.
[00:04:46]  In a moment, coming up, Richard Hoagland with an update.
[00:04:50]  The Engstrom Science Award winner,
[00:05:11]  consultant to daddy, Walter Cronkite, science advisor, actually, and consultant to NASA, man with the photos.
[00:05:22]  His name is Richard Hoagland, and he comes to us from New York City.
[00:05:27]  Richard, are you there?
[00:05:28]  Good evening, Art.
[00:05:29]  Good evening, Richard.
[00:05:30]  Good to have you back.
[00:05:31]  And I understand there's a lot that's been going on.
[00:05:35]  There certainly has.
[00:05:36]  Remember the program that David Frost had a few years ago?
[00:05:39]  That was the week that was.
[00:05:41]  Absolutely.
[00:05:41]  I think we're going to look back and say, thanks to you, among others, this was the week that was in this investigation.
[00:05:48]  I think we have broken into mainstream.
[00:05:51]  One of the interesting developments that I literally learned at the gallery tonight, I just came from a gallery opening here in New York City down in Soho, where a large selection of very large format hard copy photographs, some murals as long as six feet long, went on display this evening with an appropriate reception and will be up for at least a month in New York City so that various people, media, you know, gallery goers, tourists,
[00:06:20]  people in your audience who are in the New York area, it's called the Archetype Gallery, which is very appropriate.
[00:06:27]  It's run by Iris DeMiro, who is a very remarkable lady in her own right.
[00:06:31]  It's at 115 Mercer Street in Soho, for people who know New York.
[00:06:36]  And I don't know the gallery hours offhand, but I'm sure we can update you on the website at some point.
[00:06:42]  The point is that we are presenting in this gallery premiere the actual negatives blown up as large-scale prints from the original NASA material without the intervention of a computer.
[00:06:57]  Oh, that's nice.
[00:06:59]  This is the actual negatives that the astronauts brought back from the moon a couple of generations down the road because obviously the originals are somewhere in Houston.
[00:07:08]  Sure.
[00:07:08]  And we are comparing them side by side with the computer enhancements that by definition have to appear on the web.
[00:07:16]  Sure.
[00:07:16]  You can't put analog data on the web by definition.
[00:07:20]  And what's interesting is that tonight we had a whole bevy of photographers.
[00:07:23]  I have a feeling that about half of New York City is made up of photographers or would-be photographers or former photographers or people who know photographers.
[00:07:33]  Anyway, I had a rather remarkable evening because I had a lot of photographers throwing good photographic questions at me.
[00:07:41]  And the interesting thing is that they all came away extraordinarily puzzled.
[00:07:45]  These are people who deal with light every day.
[00:07:49]  Sure.
[00:07:49]  Well, now they're living.
[00:07:51]  We've got to put this in perspective.
[00:07:53]  This was pretty much at the invitation of Sarah McLennan.
[00:07:57]  You've got to back up for this audience a little bit.
[00:07:59]  You had a meeting set up.
[00:08:01]  Well, that was last night.
[00:08:02]  Sarah McLennan.
[00:08:03]  That was last night.
[00:08:04]  That was in Washington.
[00:08:06]  But see, they didn't hear about that.
[00:08:07]  Ah, okay.
[00:08:08]  Well, we're going to get to the Sarah McLennan thing.
[00:08:10]  But a week ago, when we had planned the press conference, the Sarah McLennan thing kind of came up wonderfully at the last minute serendipitously, and I'll get back to that.
[00:08:19]  We had planned as a companion event one week later, a gallery opening of the hard copy photography here in New York, which is the commercial media capital of the universe.
[00:08:32]  And it was extremely well attended, and we showed film, we showed video, I walked them through the pictures, we put everything on tape.
[00:08:40]  We're compositing that into this video, which will be what, number four in this series.
[00:08:45]  Right.
[00:08:46]  And we may call it that was the week that was.
[00:08:48]  It's just such an interesting idea because it has been a heck of a week.
[00:08:52]  The key thing is these photographers who are used to looking at photographs and taking photographs apart were genuinely, honestly baffled, puzzled, and astonished by what they see in these photographs.
[00:09:07]  Because they know that what they're seeing in these pictures is not the moon that they've been told exists.
[00:09:13]  It's something else.
[00:09:15]  And that's what's happening.
[00:09:16]  There is a developing trend curve.
[00:09:18]  Now, in the middle of the night, as I'm going through all this with laser pointer in hand and cameras pointed in my face and people throwing questions, a friend of mine comes in off the freeway.
[00:09:28]  He'd driven up from Washington.
[00:09:30]  And he said, did you hear what NPR did a little while ago?
[00:09:34]  And I said, no, Stephen, I haven't heard anything.
[00:09:37]  I've been here.
[00:09:38]  He said, NPR issued a retraction tonight.
[00:09:41]  Oh?
[00:09:42]  After, you see, you hadn't heard this either.
[00:09:44]  That's right.
[00:09:44]  All right.
[00:09:45]  I need to ask for some support from your audience.
[00:09:48]  If anybody taped tonight's All Things Considered and the NPR piece basically retracting the slanderous piece they did on us last week, I would like a copy of the tape.
[00:10:00]  Please.
[00:10:01]  What was the manner of the retraction?
[00:10:03]  Let me tell you what they did last week.
[00:10:04]  And I have not heard any of this because I have been running about Warp 9, which is why we're calling this now the Enterprise Mission.
[00:10:11]  We don't drop below light speed until we get back to the moon.
[00:10:16]  We have not heard or seen really any of the press.
[00:10:18]  I've just been hearing reports, people secondhand, thirdhand.
[00:10:21]  I did see the piece in the Washington Post, which is incredibly libelous.
[00:10:26]  But I had not seen or heard anything else much.
[00:10:28]  And so when I heard secondhand that NPR had assigned a comedian to cover our press conference, I really was rather disappointed because I think a lot of NPR.
[00:10:40]  Apparently, this 90-second piece that ran last week, a week ago last week tonight.
[00:10:48]  I had a number of reports of it, so I know.
[00:10:50]  Okay, I've not heard it.
[00:10:51]  Anyway, what NPR did tonight is to basically bite the bullet, and they said forthrightly that they had gotten a lot of mail, hundreds of letters, if not thousands, and that 99% of it was very negative and hostile, and told them basically they had been bad boys and girls, that they had not done a job on covering our press event that was up to the standard that they expected from NPR and All Things Considered.
[00:11:21]  And then, to cap it, and I've got to give them credit, they actually played a tape from a listener somewhere in the Midwest who said that his local paper, you know, just a two-bit local rag, had done a very fair and objective report in contrast to NPR's slipshod, demeaning effort at humor.
[00:11:45]  And then they apparently, to have the last word, had the comedian come on and he called up Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon.
[00:11:54]  Yes.
[00:11:55]  Who basically said in the piece that I was crazy and there's nothing there and everything is fine and NASA's telling the truth.
[00:12:02]  And the comedian said, see, I've been vindicated.
[00:12:04]  And that was the end of the piece.
[00:12:05]  Now, for bright and interested and curious and intelligent Americans, obviously the national public radio does not go on the air and say, Maya Culpa, we blew it without a substantial amount of pressure.
[00:12:21]  What is really important is, and I don't know what the crossover is, but I would doubt that there are a significant number of all things considered listeners in your audience, if for no other reason than the times don't fit.
[00:12:36]  You know, you're a late-night person, and people who are up listening to you are up at night.
[00:12:40]  That's correct.
[00:12:41]  And all things considered is in the afternoon.
[00:12:43]  So there's a difference in shifts and schedules.
[00:12:45]  Now, there probably is some crossover, but not a lot.
[00:12:47]  So the reason this is important politically is that without any urging on our part, a lot of Americans listening to NPR realized that something was radically wrong, that they were not getting the full story, as Paul Harvey used to say.
[00:13:05]  And they let their voices be heard, and NPR responded.
[00:13:09]  Now, they haven't called us yet and asked for an interview so we can sit down and discuss data as opposed to accusations.
[00:13:16]  But the fact that they went through this hauler all this evening and even played a listener, you know, and his comments, I've got to give them credit.
[00:13:24]  And the credit really goes ultimately to the American people who are politically doing exactly what is expected.
[00:13:31]  Now, let me back into the Sarah McClendon thing, because you know that C-SPAN is the other holdout.
[00:13:37]  Yes.
[00:13:37]  That C-SPAN waffled and waffled and waffled.
[00:13:40]  And finally, at 5 p.m. last Wednesday, decided not to cover our press conference.
[00:13:47]  To the distress of many of us.
[00:13:49]  At 9 o'clock the next morning, apparently an awful lot of people around the country turned on C-SPAN expecting to see us live.
[00:13:56]  You bet.
[00:13:56]  And we weren't there.
[00:13:58]  They, without prompting, then picked up their telephones and dialed C-SPAN in Washington.
[00:14:04]  And at 10.30, I'm standing at the podium, and I noticed this camera crew come galloping through the door, setting up their cameras.
[00:14:12]  It was C-SPAN.
[00:14:13]  And they recorded the last 45 minutes.
[00:14:15]  Well, of course, the big question is, when are they going to air it, if they ever air it?
[00:14:20]  So we've had a number of people looking at C-SPAN and making calls, and no one over there seemed to know what was going on.
[00:14:25]  So this morning in my breakfast meeting, which was supposed to be a brief touch-and-go to kind of thank her for the invitation last night with Sarah McClendon, which turned into a two-and-a-half-hour meeting on strategy in her apartment in downtown Washington.
[00:14:41]  Sarah's apartment.
[00:14:42]  Sarah's apartment.
[00:14:44]  I just kind of naively said, Sarah, do you know Brian Lamb?
[00:14:48]  And she says, well, of course, he's one of my best friends.
[00:14:50]  And I said, why don't you give him a call and find out when he's going to run the press conference?
[00:14:54]  And I gave her this whole story.
[00:14:56]  So while we're sitting there, Carrie Clark and myself and my cameraman who had come down to photograph last night's event, Sarah McClendon picks up the telephone and calls Brian Lamb and dictates to his assistant, he was at some meeting, a very lengthy memo.
[00:15:10]  The bottom line was, please call me back.
[00:15:12]  This is important.
[00:15:13]  I want to find out when you're going to run the Hoagland press conference.
[00:15:16]  Now, I have not been home.
[00:15:17]  I literally walked in the door five minutes ago before the phone rang and we went on the air.

=== Renaissance Of Voices (04:53) ===

[00:15:22]  So I have not checked faxes, messages, whatever.
[00:15:25]  I do not know what's going on regarding Sarah and Brian Lamb, but tomorrow I will find out.
[00:15:31]  This is a fast-moving story.
[00:15:33]  It has got interesting data points.
[00:15:35]  The American people, your audience, the mainstream is making their voices heard, and it's having an appropriate effect.
[00:15:43]  And I really wanted to stay up to the middle of the night tonight after the week that was to tell your people, to tell all you guys and gals out there, we really appreciate your support.
[00:15:54]  Morally, you have kept us going.
[00:15:56]  And in fact, this is why we're doing this.
[00:15:58]  We're doing it so we all can find out what's been going on.
[00:16:06]  How would you characterize Sarah McGlendon's absorption of this information?
[00:16:14]  You know, I am continually amazed at how darn sharp an 85-year-old lady is.
[00:16:20]  And we're having such fun now because we're kind of throwing little jokes back and forth.
[00:16:25]  She has said flatly that this is the most important story she has ever come across.
[00:16:31]  And because I respect her so highly, I think that speaks reams as to what we have done in terms of the data and to what we have done in terms of communicating the political importance.
[00:16:42]  And it was really funny last night because I went on for like three hours in this meeting that she had set up at the National Press Club.
[00:16:48]  And there were some very interesting events that went down around the meeting, which we'll probably get into after the next commercial.
[00:16:54]  But the bottom line is she said at the end of the meeting, she says, okay, Dick, now she says, tell us, why is this important?
[00:17:00]  Why should I care?
[00:17:01]  You know, she's a very bottom-line kind of person.
[00:17:03]  Sure.
[00:17:03]  So we went through material science, radical scientific advances, American Renaissance, educational renaissance, spiritual renaissance, energy developments, knowledge that has been kept from the American people for 30 years by somebody for some reason that we haven't got access to and now needs to come out and needs to be put into play so that we basically move into the next century, kind of playing with a full deck, because we haven't been.
[00:17:33]  We've been doing this with one arm tied behind our back.
[00:17:36]  You cannot trip over the ruins of an extraordinary, stunningly advanced culture, even if it's millions of years old and long since gone, and not find libraries, not find recorded information, the wisdom of the ages, to use a cliché.
[00:17:53]  Sure.
[00:17:54]  And that wisdom has come back and has not gone to you or me or the American people.
[00:18:00]  It has gone to a handful of guys in the black budget who have been using it for God knows what.
[00:18:04]  And it's time we find out what they've been doing with it and we democratize it and put it to use in the general economy and culture of this planet.
[00:18:13]  So is Sarah going to herself write a story?
[00:18:16]  Yes.
[00:18:17]  And she has asked me now to almost do a press release a day.
[00:18:21]  She says, you've got to get out there.
[00:18:22]  You've got to get this story out there.
[00:18:24]  You've got to do it bit, bit, bit.
[00:18:25]  You know, I mean, she's really bottom line.
[00:18:28]  And so what she's basically become is a kind of a friend of the family and advisor.
[00:18:33]  And when I have some questions about how to tackle the mainstream press, you know, I now have license to call her up and say, Sarah, what would you recommend that I do to get this information out, to get the message across?
[00:18:45]  And she has taken it upon herself to call certain people and to inquire as to what they're doing and to try to arrange for conversations to take place.
[00:18:55]  And a lot is going to happen, I think, because of her good offices and because of her interest.
[00:19:00]  And frankly, if I had five more people as sharp as Sarah McClendon on this team, we'd be on the moon the day after tomorrow.
[00:19:08]  You think, well, what do you think of the prospects of getting a private return to the moon, Richard?
[00:19:15]  Is there any chance of that?
[00:19:17]  Tonight at the gallery, I met, well, I can't tell you who I met because there are some confidences I have to keep, but I met somebody who has more money than God who wants to talk about the private mission.
[00:19:28]  That makes three people who I've met in the last two weeks who are serious, who have the resources, and who have come to me.
[00:19:35]  I think it's doable.
[00:19:37]  I've already talked with the engineering people in certain aerospace companies who are dying to have the chance to do this and demonstrate what they can do.
[00:19:45]  We're looking at a renaissance here.
[00:19:48]  We're looking at the space program that we really should have had.
[00:19:51]  Only this time, instead of government playing pussy with it, it's going to be those real people out there who really want to know who are going to get to go themselves or get to go with technology.

=== Photographs And Updates (02:20) ===

[00:20:02]  All right, hold it right there, Richard.
[00:20:03]  We'll be right back to you.
[00:20:04]  This is Premier Networks.
[00:20:06]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[00:20:39]  We take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:20:44]  Hi, everybody.
[00:20:45]  I'm Art Bell, and it's good to be here.
[00:20:47]  Richard Hoagland is with us for an update, and we're going to ask him in a moment about the photographs that are on the Internet and how to look at them.
[00:21:14]  I've received a lot of email, a lot of email, regarding the photographs that are up on my website.
[00:21:21]  And I want to preface what I'm going to ask by saying that I received first a piece of email, typical of some I have received, that have said simply, you've got to be kidding.
[00:21:36]  This is just a bunch of blurry, gobbledygook.
[00:21:39]  What can we discern from these photographs?
[00:21:42]  Nothing.
[00:21:43]  So, what I thought it would be useful to do for all of you is to ask Richard how to look at these photographs, what they are seeing.
[00:21:53]  Take what you consider a couple of the best photos, Richard, and explain to the people, if you would.
[00:21:59]  It'll help a lot what they're seeing.

=== Alien Artifacts Revisited (15:20) ===

[00:22:03]  Well, for one thing, you have to understand that different monitors on different computers are showing these differently.
[00:22:10]  I discovered the other night when Keith Rollin and I were comparing notes that when I've been uploading them, I've been uploading them at a certain scale.
[00:22:17]  And because a lot of monitors have much less resolution than the monitors we're using, that they show up on the browser at twice the scale I've been putting them up.
[00:22:27]  So it's like standing up too close.
[00:22:29]  You are literally seeing pixels, and what you have to do is you have to capture them, put them into some kind of photo imaging program so you can reduce them, demagnify them, and look at them in smaller versions.
[00:22:43]  You know, it's that old song from Gigi: Have I been standing up too close or back too far?
[00:22:48]  So that's part of the problem.
[00:22:49]  All right, what are they seeing in the Zond photographs?
[00:22:52]  Exactly.
[00:22:53]  What are they looking at?
[00:22:53]  Well, the Zond photographs are two images taken in 1965 on July 20th at a distance of approximately 6,000 miles from the center of the moon by a spacecraft that was flying by, sent by the Russians.
[00:23:10]  And they are part of a 28-frame sequence.
[00:23:13]  We have been able to secure now two of those 28 frames.
[00:23:18]  And the first frame shows in the upper right-hand portion of the curved lunar limb, the edge of the moon, at about the 1:32 o'clock position, if you're thinking of the moon as a clock, a tower, a striking 20-mile-high tower.
[00:23:36]  That's right, 20 miles.
[00:23:39]  And it is pointed straight up and down so that if you follow that long part, down, it would eventually go through the center of the moon.
[00:23:48]  In other words, this artifact, this thing on the photo, knows where the local lunar vertical is.
[00:23:56]  It knows the gravity of the moon.
[00:23:57]  It knows where down is.
[00:23:59]  You're saying it is precisely vertical.
[00:24:01]  Yeah, it is vertical.
[00:24:03]  Now, what's interesting is that, of course, that is pretty intriguing because if it was some kind of photographic defect or artifact of the scan or the reproduction mechanism, what are the odds that this streak would know where lunar vertical was?
[00:24:17]  So you look for these consistencies.
[00:24:19]  The second thing, of course, is its height, 20 miles.
[00:24:22]  How do you determine that it is 20 miles high?
[00:24:25]  Oh, well, it's really simple.
[00:24:26]  We know, because the Russians gave us the specifications, the distance of the spacecraft, the lens, all those things.
[00:24:33]  You look at the curvature of the horizon.
[00:24:35]  You can calculate the scale.
[00:24:37]  We know the size of the moon, which is 2,160 miles in diameter.
[00:24:43]  And by simple, very simple geometry that any textbook in geometry in high school will give you, you simply compare the size of that spike, that tower, with the curvature of the moon, and that tells you that it's got to be about 20 miles tall.
[00:24:58]  Now, what we don't know yet, because I have not literally had the time since we got this picture to figure it out, is where on the moon it is.
[00:25:04]  That's going to be a little more difficult, but we will probably in the next few days have that figured out.
[00:25:10]  What's very important is that this was the second of these exotic Zond pictures which came to our attention.
[00:25:18]  The first one is the other frame that's produced on that page, which is an earlier frame that NASA itself actually published back in 1968.
[00:25:28]  And if you look very carefully at the bottom of each picture, there are the sources for these pictures.
[00:25:34]  The first picture I just talked about came from Jane's Publishing, the same Jane's that publishes, you know, Jane's aircraft and Jane's ships and all that.
[00:25:44]  It's a big London clearinghouse for basically high-tech and military hardware.
[00:25:49]  You bet.
[00:25:50]  And all over the world, people send photos to Jane's to get them published.
[00:25:54]  Sure.
[00:25:54]  Well, the Novosti or Novosti or TAS news agency, you know, was contacted many years ago by Jane's, and they apparently got a set of prints or negatives.
[00:26:05]  And we now have to have our people in London follow up because I've been looking, as you know, for more pictures in this series.
[00:26:11]  One of your listeners the other night, after they'd heard us do one of our shows, found a book in a bookstore somewhere out west, in the northwest, I think, maybe even Portland.
[00:26:23]  It was called Solar System Log, and it was published by Janes Publishing Company.
[00:26:29]  And in it was this little picture, including the schematic of the spacecraft and the trajectory and all that.
[00:26:35]  Well, I looked at it quickly, and I thought it was a duplicate of the one that we had procured a couple years ago.
[00:26:42]  And then I looked again and I realized, oh my God, it's a second frame.
[00:26:47]  If you look very carefully at what's on the frame, not the edge of the frame, but the actual structure on the moon, you will see that there is a systematic difference between image number one and image number two.
[00:27:02]  All the features are reproduced in both pictures.
[00:27:05]  All right.
[00:27:06]  Well, that's very important.
[00:27:07]  It's very well because people will say, inevitably, this is a photographic anomaly.
[00:27:14]  Well, maybe once, but not twice.
[00:27:18]  Well, what you see is, if you look carefully at the picture, and again, I will upload a better version.
[00:27:24]  We refined another version.
[00:27:25]  I will upload that shortly, you know, next day or so.
[00:27:28]  You can actually see between the two pictures extraordinary commonality.
[00:27:34]  And this, of course, is important because it means that the imaging from the Soviet spacecraft to the Earth, the transmission, the scanning, the reproduction, was very accurate because each detail seen in frame number one is reproduced in frame number two.
[00:27:49]  That's important evidence.
[00:27:51]  And what's really interesting, if you look carefully, there are vertical lines that connect craters that shift from left to right between the two frames.
[00:28:02]  Now, why is the shift important?
[00:28:04]  Because the spacecraft was moving to the left, and the lines, because of perspective, shift to the right.
[00:28:10]  Yes.
[00:28:10]  Oh, it's incredibly important.
[00:28:12]  Meaning, yes, exactly, that we're looking at a real, what we call parallactic displacement, a real geometry perspective change as the Zon was arrowing behind the moon in a curving path and taking a later set of pictures.
[00:28:27]  And what happened is between the frame we've got now from Jane's and the second frame, which was actually the first one that we found, they had moved several thousand miles around the moon further, and it was further in the sequence.
[00:28:39]  It wasn't the next picture.
[00:28:40]  It probably was two or three pictures later.
[00:28:43]  By which time the tower had set around the edge of the moon.
[00:28:48]  And another feature down south over the front side crater called Kasendi, which is on the front side of the moon on the northern part of a Maria called Mare Humerum.
[00:29:00]  You can see it with a decent-sized telescope.
[00:29:02]  That crater, Kasendi, shows a large 20-mile dome-like structure over it.
[00:29:10]  And that structure knows where down is.
[00:29:13]  It is radially pointed so that the dome and the sides of it are all perpendicular and aimed toward the center of the moon.
[00:29:21]  Now, what's really important in terms of consistency is these two anomalies are the same height, indicating that's the top altitude.
[00:29:31]  And that altitude, by the way, has now, we have checked it and found that it is the height of the glass of the domes that were photographed on the film that I showed to Sarah McLennan's group last night in Washington, shot by Apollo 10 as they made their lunar passes over the front side of the moon.
[00:29:47]  The dome altitudes now are about 20 miles.
[00:29:52]  We have that from American data and from Soviet data.
[00:29:55]  I've got to agree with you.
[00:29:57]  This is very important evidence, Richard, and bolsters your case.
[00:30:01]  Now, answer for me the following.
[00:30:04]  As you know, in the flush of publicity, and there has been a lot of publicity about what you've been doing.
[00:30:12]  Well, there's been some pretty interesting publicity.
[00:30:14]  I must tell you, this is a news flash.
[00:30:16]  Mel Gibson's personal assistant called me two days ago.
[00:30:21]  And this was before, no, it was right after he had won the director's award in Best Picture.
[00:30:27]  Yes.
[00:30:27]  They are considering a project with us on this subject.
[00:30:32]  All right.
[00:30:32]  Here's my question.
[00:30:34]  In all this publicity, astronauts have been contacted.
[00:30:38]  Alan Bean is an example.
[00:30:40]  Yes.
[00:30:41]  And he said, oh, come on.
[00:30:44]  If this stuff had been there, don't you think we'd have wanted to tell the world that it would have been a wonderful PR coup for NASA and for the space program?
[00:30:55]  And I guarantee we would have told the world if we'd seen anything like Mr. Hoagland says is there.
[00:31:04]  What kind of response do you want from me, Art?
[00:31:08]  Anything you'd offer.
[00:31:09]  In other words, all I want to do is to put on the record that we now have Alan Bean, esteemed military officer, U.S. astronaut, artist, on record to ABC, claiming there's nothing there.
[00:31:26]  We have photographs, and I'll get to the photographs in a minute because there's a new development on the photographic front, I must tell you.
[00:31:33]  We have photographs showing Alan Bean in front of incredibly interesting structures on the moon.
[00:31:40]  Even more interesting, maybe, we have Alan Bean on record to Newsweek two years ago when asked to describe what the lunar surface looked like in terms of the space itself above the moon.
[00:31:53]  Yes.
[00:31:53]  He compared it to black patent leather shiny shoes, which if you were standing on the moon with a spacesuit heart, looking at this stuff, these glittering glass domes in terrible shattered ruins now, achingly years after they were built, it would look like black patent leather shoes, flickers of brightness against the dark.
[00:32:15]  The photographs you have of Alan Bean, those are on the net now?
[00:32:19]  Those are on the net.
[00:32:21]  This is the new news, I must tell you.
[00:32:23]  On our way down to Sarah McClendon's presentation, my invitation last night, from here to Washington, we stopped by the Goddard Space Flight Center.
[00:32:34]  Remember, I had a team of people in December go in when Ken Johnston's photographs first came to my attention from his secret archive.
[00:32:42]  Right.
[00:32:43]  Mr. Johnston, former head of photo and data control at the Lunar Receiving Laboratory for Northrop Brown and Root.
[00:32:53]  I wanted to check.
[00:32:54]  I always want to check everything.
[00:32:56]  So the first instinct I had was: okay, here are Ken's pictures carefully preserved outside of NASA for 30 years.
[00:33:03]  Let's see what the National Archives, the NSSDC archives of current NASA data has to say.
[00:33:10]  Let's compare the photographs.
[00:33:13]  And it took us from December art until last evening to get our hands on copies, current copies from NSSDC.
[00:33:24]  Okay, you got them?
[00:33:24]  What are the results?
[00:33:25]  Well, let me tell you how we got them.
[00:33:27]  We're on our way down.
[00:33:28]  We're driving from New York, and on a cell phone, we called our very important contact at Goddard, who sat in a parking lot for 90 minutes with this packet of pictures in his lap on the front seat, waiting to give the handoff to us.
[00:33:45]  He didn't trust even leaving them at the guard gate.
[00:33:48]  It was that important.
[00:33:49]  Deep space.
[00:33:51]  And on the way from Goddard into the press club, I am literally looking against the evening sky, you know, at these photographs.
[00:34:01]  And I have a news flash.
[00:34:03]  The photos that I showed at the press club on Thursday that are up on your website that came from an official NASA film called Apollo 12 Pinpoint for Science.
[00:34:13]  Yes, I now have color negatives, which when I hold them up to the light, I can actually see the dome structures on the color negatives from Goddard handed to me personally last night at 4 p.m.
[00:34:29]  Well, you're going to have to get those reproduced and up there as soon as possible.
[00:34:32]  We will.
[00:34:33]  Now, Mr. Bean has a very interesting quandary because, like Hillary Clinton, who had documents appear in her library and who claimed she didn't know how they got there.
[00:34:44]  That's true.
[00:34:45]  Notwithstanding the content of that case, whether you believe her or don't believe her, the fact is on the prima facie circumstantial evidence, Ms. Clinton has a lot to answer for.
[00:34:56]  Indeed.
[00:34:57]  On the circumstantial evidence of these photographs and Bean's own statements to Newsweek, Mr. Bean should be very careful how he handles press comments in future.
[00:35:09]  Something is not right here.
[00:35:11]  Something is radically amiss.
[00:35:13]  And you have the evidence.
[00:35:14]  We have the evidence.
[00:35:17]  When a person looks at these photographs, Richard, are they going to be clear?
[00:35:26]  Is it going to be clear to a casual viewer what's seen?
[00:35:32]  Well, all right, this is an interesting philosophical point because it's like, is anything in life clear to a casual viewer?
[00:35:40]  It's a good question.
[00:35:42]  Because a lot of people listen to this program, and they go up there and they download pictures, and they look at them and they say, oh, come on, I don't see anything.
[00:35:49]  Because they don't know how to look.
[00:35:52]  That's why we have experts.
[00:35:53]  That's why we had a panel there at the press club of geologists, photo interpreters, engineers, scientists, architects.
[00:36:03]  I mean, we had people whose collective experience in various disciplines.
[00:36:07]  This is just Dick Hoagland, you know, on the radio, as I used to say.
[00:36:11]  This is a group of people who have put their careers on the line in front of the world and basically said to a man and a woman, this is important.
[00:36:20]  We've given this four years of study in various venues over a long period of time.
[00:36:26]  We've looked at them in the raw form.
[00:36:27]  We looked at them in the computerized form.
[00:36:30]  We have followed the progress of this research.
[00:36:32]  We have seen it deepen and broaden and get more serious.
[00:36:36]  And we now believe with our collective wisdom that there's something here that demands attention.
[00:36:41]  The idea that anybody can come in yesterday and look at these and make a snap decision is lunacy, pun intended.
[00:36:50]  You know, what people are expecting from me apparently is a McDonald's sign.
[00:36:54]  The newspapers, I noted, couldn't restrain themselves from the overuse of that word, incidentally.
[00:37:00]  Well, it does lend itself to that.
[00:37:02]  Yes, it does.
[00:37:03]  But what I'm impressed with is your viewer who said on second and third and fourth look.

=== Dial Into Facts (08:37) ===

[00:37:09]  It's true.
[00:37:10]  That's what you have to do, guys.
[00:37:11]  No, it's true.
[00:37:12]  He came back and actually apologized.
[00:37:14]  He wrote a very scary.
[00:37:15]  Well, he has nothing to apologize for.
[00:37:17]  It's that if you expect this to be a lead pipe cinch, you're wrong.
[00:37:23]  If you hang with it and understand that you're looking at something that is a ruin millions of years old, made of glass, photographed by 1960s technology, and that it requires an understanding of how to, you know, you've got to be able to transcend the limitations of expecting to see a sign on things.
[00:37:44]  You have to understand rectilinear geometry.
[00:37:46]  You have to understand patterns.
[00:37:48]  You have to understand when things are at right angles again and again and again, that ain't natural.
[00:37:53]  That things sticking up above the lunar surface are not natural.
[00:37:57]  Nothing should be up there.
[00:37:58]  The very fact that there is anything up there, if we can get past the obvious stupidity of its scratches or it's spots on the window.
[00:38:08]  Well, I think your recent evidence overcomes that one.
[00:38:11]  Let me give you an example that I think is important to keep in mind.
[00:38:14]  Well, the last week or two.
[00:38:16]  We're woefully out of time, Richard.
[00:38:17]  Look, we will continue to get updates from you.
[00:38:22]  We'll have you back on the program.
[00:38:23]  Somebody here wants your fax number, and we're very short on time.
[00:38:27]  201-271-1703.
[00:38:31]  Do it again.
[00:38:32]  2019.
[00:38:32]  201.
[00:38:33]  Right.
[00:38:34]  271.
[00:38:35]  271-1703.
[00:38:37]  1703.
[00:38:38]  And you would like anybody's help with either information or where do you have.
[00:38:43]  Well, we have had additional NASA people write to us and fax us.
[00:38:47]  If you are a NASA person, either with the agency or formally remember, there are people inside who are helping us because they know we're not crazy.
[00:38:56]  We are not kooks.
[00:38:57]  We are very serious.
[00:38:58]  Yes.
[00:38:58]  And we're going to get to the bottom of this.
[00:39:00]  If you're one of those people and you know something or want to share something and do it even anonymously at this point, we will respect that and we will abide by your wishes.
[00:39:09]  But please help us.
[00:39:11]  If you want to be of help with the media, continue making the calls.
[00:39:15]  It is having an effect.
[00:39:16]  The American people can make their wishes known by picking up the phone and dialing various media.
[00:39:22]  The NPR experience tonight is demonstrable evidence that you can make a difference.
[00:39:28]  All right.
[00:39:29]  These latest photographs that you've talked about that without enhancement show a lot of what you've been talking about are important.
[00:39:37]  They're critically important because it means two things.
[00:39:39]  One is it's really there, and two, no one has taken it away from us.
[00:39:44]  All right, so they should start with the photographs that are on the webpage now, and you'll have the other ones up there soon.
[00:39:50]  We were going to continue over the next several days loading new material and new explanatory material and comparisons.
[00:39:58]  You know, this is not something we do lightly.
[00:40:01]  We will do this right.
[00:40:02]  All right, so we could look for it in the next several days.
[00:40:06]  Yes.
[00:40:07]  All right, Richard, thank you so very much, as always, for being here.
[00:40:11]  And I wish you Godspeed.
[00:40:13]  I wish you good luck.
[00:40:14]  And by all means, be careful.
[00:40:18]  Wish me a good night's sleep.
[00:40:20]  Have a good night's sleep, Richard.
[00:40:22]  And I'm glad you got it together with Sarah McLennan.
[00:40:24]  She's going to be a big help.
[00:40:26]  She is a gem.
[00:40:27]  I am so pleased to have finally had a chance to talk with someone I've admired for many years.
[00:40:31]  She's everything I thought she'd be.
[00:40:33]  Thank you, Richard.
[00:40:34]  Say good night, Art.
[00:40:36]  Good night, Richard.
[00:40:38]  That's it, folks.
[00:40:39]  Wanted to get you an update.
[00:40:41]  I absolutely recommend you take a look at the Zond photographs on the webpage now.
[00:40:47]  To get to that webpage, you simply go www.artbell.com.
[00:40:54]  That's www.artb-e-l-l, no spaces in there, dot com.
[00:41:00]  Or in a web browser, just enter the name Art Bell, and it'll take you there.
[00:41:05]  We'll be back in just a few.
[00:41:07]  The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
[00:41:13]  More Somewhere in Time coming out.
[00:41:41]  Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
[00:41:47]  Tonight, featuring Ghost to Coast AM from March 28th, 1996.
[00:41:51]  Hi, everybody.
[00:41:52]  I'm beginning to get faxes from people who have gone to their banks and they've got the new $100 bills.
[00:41:58]  The new $100 bill in the U.S. has been given wide attention.
[00:42:03]  However, listen to this.
[00:42:05]  The former Soviet Union has responded loudest as they use U.S. currency for real commerce there, the ruble being worth less than toilet paper.
[00:42:16]  And this faxer says, the thing is, the $100 bills now appearing in Russia are, get this, slightly different than the ones we're seeing in early releases of photos of the bills and from banks.
[00:42:32]  This has the Russians scared spitless that we will soon go to a two-tiered currency.
[00:42:40]  This will result from a bill currently in the house.
[00:42:44]  very very very very interesting
[00:43:06]  i'm going to begin on a lighter note and go to a heavier note because if i don't do that will never get any the lighter stuff in uh... because of what's going on of course in montana Now, first of all, I want to, one more time, I'm going to say this.
[00:43:21]  The telephone company has been really bending over backwards to pull out all the stops across the country, AT ⁇ T, to get us the first truly toll-free international line in the country.
[00:43:38]  And they are close, very, very close.
[00:43:43]  It might even be working.
[00:43:45]  They have not notified us of that fact.
[00:43:48]  But I want to give out the number again.
[00:43:51]  and instruct anybody anywhere else in the world how to try to dial us internationally.
[00:43:57]  Please try.
[00:43:59]  Call your operator or in one way or the other get the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number.
[00:44:07]  Dial that and you'll get a dial tone.
[00:44:10]  When you get that dial tone, dial our international 800 number and try it.
[00:44:16]  It is 1-800-893-0903.
[00:44:23]  Now, I don't know whether you've got to put the 1 in front of that or not.
[00:44:28]  This is all very experimental.
[00:44:30]  There has never been such a thing before, and in fact, there may not be now.
[00:44:36]  But I would like you to give it a try.
[00:44:37]  If you're anywhere in the world, dial the USA Direct AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number.
[00:44:46]  Get a dial tone.
[00:44:47]  And then call our 800 number, 800-893-0903.
[00:44:54]  And one of these days, it's going to start working.
[00:44:57]  They're going to get it.
[00:44:58]  They're working on software and hardware.
[00:45:00]  And who knows?
[00:45:02]  One of these mornings I'm going to be surprised.
[00:45:06]  Here's a facts I think you should hear.
[00:45:08]  Dear Art, I went by the UFO Museum here in Roswell this afternoon.
[00:45:13]  Max Little is a very good family friend.
[00:45:17]  I unluckily missed him and getting hold of that fragment by about 20 minutes.
[00:45:23]  I wanted to let you know, though, what Max told me is going on.
[00:45:27]  The fragment is now in the Chief of Police's safe at the Roswell Police Department tomorrow, Friday.

=== Something Needs To Be Said Quickly (09:44) ===

[00:45:35]  The chief of the Roswell Police Department is going to accompany Max to the School of Mines in Socorro, New Mexico, where this will be analyzed.
[00:45:45]  The college is one of the best mining schools in the country.
[00:45:49]  They have top-of-the-line equipment to perform metallurgical breakdowns and analysis.
[00:45:55]  Max is going to go up there and return tomorrow to be a hell of a drive.
[00:45:59]  On Saturday morning, I'm supposed to go and see both the fragment and Max and find out any information from the School of Mines.
[00:46:09]  There is something that needs to be said very quickly.
[00:46:13]  It is important to know that Roswell has two UFO museums.
[00:46:18]  These museums are like night and day when it comes to the attitude of the people who run the places.
[00:46:23]  The museum that Max runs is extremely skeptical of any UFO sightings and info.
[00:46:29]  The museum also does not have a full-time researcher.
[00:46:33]  It is a nice museum, but the general knowledge UFO of their workforce is not the best because they're volunteers.
[00:46:41]  Max told me we've got something that is either worthless or invaluable, how true that is.
[00:46:48]  Being a native of Roswell, I've had a chance to talk to many of the individuals who were around at the time and many who were involved.
[00:46:56]  It is my opinion that something did happen close to Corona.
[00:47:01]  It is also my opinion it was not a balloon of any kind.
[00:47:06]  Now, I don't know what crashed, where it was from, or who piloted it.
[00:47:09]  But with the rest of the citizens in the area, I'm interested in finding out just what did happen here.
[00:47:16]  As a kid, I used to ride my motorcycle out there all the time.
[00:47:20]  My family was friends with the people who owned the land, always hoped to find something out there, but to no avail.
[00:47:26]  I also remember as a child going to the airport that was the Air Force base airport.
[00:47:33]  The Air Force still had several hangars and storage places out there.
[00:47:37]  Warnings were posted that deadly force would be used to protect the areas, and heavily armed people could be seen at times.
[00:47:44]  I was very young then, but it's all very clear in my mind.
[00:47:49]  I'll fax you when I find anything out, keep you updated.
[00:47:52]  Possibly you could yet again break a historic story.
[00:47:57]  Love the show, Robert from Roswell, New Mexico.
[00:48:01]  And I want to thank KBIM, our affiliate in Roswell, for keeping me on top of this.
[00:48:07]  I want to thank the people at the museum, the local newspaper, who are providing me with a color photograph of this fragment turned in by somebody who did the cleanup at Roswell.
[00:48:19]  What a surprise, huh?
[00:48:20]  After all this time.
[00:48:23]  It was kept privately, secretly, framed, and is now in the hands of the police chief of Roswell, New Mexico.
[00:48:32]  So I wanted to keep you updated on that story.
[00:48:35]  We'll have the photograph for your viewing pleasure here in the next day or two.
[00:48:44]  I continue to follow that story.
[00:48:48]  Now, I guess we'll turn to what's going on in Montana.
[00:48:54]  NBC again ran this as their top story.
[00:48:58]  It's getting top-billing all over now.
[00:49:01]  NBC reported on the windswept, cold, bleak plains of northern Montana.
[00:49:08]  A standoff continues between, in the first paragraph, they used the word a militant group, you notice not militias, called the Free Men and federal officials.
[00:49:23]  But then in the next paragraph, they slid back, watching impatiently from the sidelines local residents and law enforcement officials who almost took radical action on their own against this militia.
[00:49:41]  Again, they slip back and use that word.
[00:49:44]  Even though some of those hold up in the compound are family or friends.
[00:49:49]  This is a fairly remarkable story.
[00:49:52]  And before you think that the people, the general population in Montana backs these people, you better understand the depth of fright, the depth of terrorism these people feel.
[00:50:09]  It was so serious that these folks, farmers, relatives in many cases of people hold up in the compound or farmhouse, whatever you want to call it, were themselves going out and buying assault weapons.
[00:50:26]  They had two secret meetings with the sheriff there, so damn concerned they were ready.
[00:50:35]  In fact, so was the sheriff, apparently.
[00:50:39]  They had two secret meetings and they were prepared to deputize a bunch of farmers heavily armed who would go in and do what the FBI hopes to get done eventually, and that is bring these people to justice without the U. In fact, they held two meetings, 20 to 30 farmers, heavily armed, now disbanded because, of course, finally the FBI did show up.
[00:51:08]  But you really ought to know that these are not viewed as heroic, anti-government, repressed people By the local residents there in Montana.
[00:51:22]  You really should know that, and I think any militias or groups around anywhere who are contemplating packing up their bags and heading to help these people, they ought to know that.
[00:51:36]  There's very little to no local sympathy whatsoever.
[00:51:40]  In fact, there's more fear and loathing than anything else.
[00:51:46]  The only question at this hour is how it will end, peacefully or violently.
[00:51:54]  And I would imagine, though the FBI is keeping its distance and trying not to engender a collision, I would rather imagine that it's going, in the end, to be up to the people in that compound.
[00:52:09]  If they fire on the FBI, it is not going to end peacefully.
[00:52:15]  It simply will not.
[00:52:16]  Now, they will wait.
[00:52:17]  They'll do the best they can, and they're not picking a fight.
[00:52:21]  It's clear the FBI is not picking a fight.
[00:52:26]  But at some point, no doubt, there'll be an opportunity for gunfire.
[00:52:30]  And that will be the point of choice.
[00:52:32]  Either this will end with peace and court, and they'll have their say with the courts, or there's going to be dead bodies coming out of there.
[00:52:44]  One of the two.
[00:52:48]  So it's not a good situation, either way.
[00:52:50]  But I really felt that you should, and that's why I opened up those lines to Montana last night.
[00:52:55]  You'll hear more tonight.
[00:52:57]  People in the Billings area, the FBI command center now is just outside of Billings.
[00:53:06]  And it's pretty tense.
[00:53:08]  No question about it.
[00:53:10]  Pretty tense.
[00:53:11]  So if you have continuing comments on that, you are welcome to make them.
[00:53:17]  We had some free men call in last night.
[00:53:20]  They're welcome to call, as everybody else is.
[00:53:24]  This program, it's an open forum.
[00:53:25]  I don't screen calls.
[00:53:28]  So I'll put you on the air.
[00:53:31]  And I've got, needless to say, endless facts on the free man situation.
[00:53:35]  We'll get to some of them.
[00:53:37]  The House has passed a health care bill.
[00:53:40]  This bill would allow small companies to get together and pool coverage and get coverage for their employees.
[00:53:49]  We'll see where it goes.
[00:53:51]  Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole is leading a Republican congressional rally for presidential campaign unity and urges Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot to abandon any thoughts of third-party challenges.
[00:54:06]  At an assembly of a few hundred House and Senate backers on Capitol Hill Thursday, Dole called on Buchanan to join his fight to unseat President Clinton, said Republicans would bring about the reforms Perot seeks.
[00:54:22]  He said, I hope Buchanan joins us.
[00:54:26]  Do you think he will?
[00:54:30]  So what I'm going to do now, I think, and I've got a lot more here, but I'm not going to open this up.
[00:54:36]  Let's see where it goes.
[00:54:37]  It's up to you.
[00:54:38]  Open lines.
[00:54:39]  You can talk about Montana.
[00:54:41]  You can talk about Richard Hoagland.
[00:54:43]  You can talk about Roswell.
[00:54:44]  Or you can talk about anything you want.
[00:54:48]  The numbers are first-time caller lines, area code 702-727-1222.

=== Hi Richard, Comet Joke (06:29) ===

[00:54:59]  Wildcard lines, area code 702-727-1295.
[00:55:07]  West of the Rockies, it's 1-800-618-8255.
[00:55:15]  East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
[00:55:23]  And away we go.
[00:55:24]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[00:55:26]  Hi.
[00:55:28]  No, you're not.
[00:55:29]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[00:55:31]  Good morning.
[00:55:33]  Hello there.
[00:55:34]  Hello, Art.
[00:55:35]  How are you?
[00:55:35]  Okay.
[00:55:36]  On the front page of our Seattle Post Intelligence, which is the morning newspaper, there was the largest photograph I've ever seen on a paper.
[00:55:47]  And there was the banner of the newspaper, this photograph, and at the bottom of the page, about two inches in text across.
[00:55:55]  And it was a picture of three tower structures of different heights.
[00:56:01]  And I believe at this time they said that the largest was 800 feet high on the surface of the moon.
[00:56:08]  This was back in 1965.
[00:56:11]  Oh.
[00:56:12]  And it was taken by an astronomer, I believe, from New York, some university in New York.
[00:56:19]  And he at this time, and these weren't, these were real vivid photographs of metal structures, a tripod in, you know, and there were three and varying heights.
[00:56:33]  And he at that time said that he believed that they raised and lowered from below the surface of the moon because he had tracked that area of the moon before and had not gotten any.
[00:56:46]  And if any of your listeners can, I don't know how you do it, but don't they keep.
[00:56:50]  Oh, sure, on microfish.
[00:56:52]  You can go down to the paper or the library and get a copy of that.
[00:56:57]  Just go back to that date and get a copy, and I'd love to see it, so pass it along.
[00:57:01]  I thought what Richard Hoagland had to say last hour was significant.
[00:57:07]  And I would suggest to you that you get the photographs on the website, look at those, particularly, as I said, the Zond photographs.
[00:57:18]  Pick a good look.
[00:57:20]  Take a careful and as much as you're able scientific look.
[00:57:24]  Do as Richard suggested and manipulate them to a smaller size and take a look.
[00:57:33]  In other words, make them less pixely.
[00:57:38]  Now, I thought what he had to say was critically important and scientifically verifiable.
[00:57:44]  And that is that there would be new photographs that offer second frames of many of the photographs we now have.
[00:57:52]  This is really truly important evidence.
[00:57:54]  People can laugh it off if they want to, but I don't think it's so easily done.
[00:57:59]  In other words, these photographs show the same structures that are shown in another photograph from thousands of miles further on in orbit, and yet they show the same structures.
[00:58:15]  That would seem to me to absolutely rule out the possibility of a photographic anomaly.
[00:58:22]  And so I think Richard, along with Sarah McLendon, is on to an important addition or piece of evidence backing up his story.
[00:58:31]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[00:58:33]  Hi.
[00:58:34]  Hi, this is Richard Sacramento.
[00:58:36]  Hi, Richard.
[00:58:37]  Hi, I had a question about Hayokotake.
[00:58:40]  Yes.
[00:58:40]  The comment?
[00:58:41]  Yes.
[00:58:41]  Okay, it has a tail on it, but it's in a, there's no friction out there.
[00:58:46]  I'm wondering, how does it develop that tail with no friction?
[00:58:50]  Well, there is, in a sense, friction.
[00:58:53]  The tail are particles that are burned off from the comet.
[00:58:58]  In other words, the sun is the energy that's burning off, traditionally it is thought from a comet, little particles.
[00:59:06]  A comet may be hardcore with mainly ice and snowball, and little particles break off it, courtesy of the energy of the sun, and are left behind.
[00:59:20]  Yes, well, not the pull, no.
[00:59:22]  The heat energy of the sun.
[00:59:25]  And what's the diameter?
[00:59:27]  How big is this comet?
[00:59:28]  You know what?
[00:59:29]  I really don't know.
[00:59:31]  I really don't know how big this Japanese comet, Japanese comet.
[00:59:36]  Anyway, I went out there and I looked at it last night, and it's just, you know, it's raw nature.
[00:59:40]  You know, you're looking at raw nature there.
[00:59:42]  That's fact.
[00:59:43]  You know how fast it's going?
[00:59:45]  What, 100,000 miles an hour or something like that?
[00:59:47]  I don't know.
[00:59:48]  Fast.
[00:59:50]  All right, then.
[00:59:51]  All right.
[00:59:51]  All right, Art.
[00:59:52]  Thank you.
[00:59:53]  No, I'm not an expert on comets, so I'm sure somebody in the audience is.
[00:59:57]  No, I don't know how fast it is going.
[01:00:00]  But it's definitely trucking right along.
[01:00:02]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:00:04]  Hi.
[01:00:05]  Turning down the radio.
[01:00:06]  Okay.
[01:00:08]  Good morning, Art.
[01:00:09]  Good morning, sir.
[01:00:12]  Richard just blows me away every time I listen to him.
[01:00:16]  I have a question.
[01:00:17]  Seriously, now, what do you think?
[01:00:20]  I know about four months ago you were still questioning Richards, or at least the moon's evidence.
[01:00:28]  What do you think now?
[01:00:31]  I think he's got some strong evidence.
[01:00:35]  Doesn't he?
[01:00:36]  Yes.
[01:00:37]  It's strong evidence.
[01:00:39]  And anybody with any ethical look at this can't just joke about it.
[01:00:49]  And if they do, then the joke's on them.
[01:00:53]  Yeah.
[01:00:54]  Hey, onto something lighter.
[01:00:56]  Yes.
[01:00:56]  Someone donated me an old military ham radio.
[01:01:02]  Yes.
[01:01:03]  The big, it's like a box.
[01:01:04]  It weighs about 70 pounds and you can carry it around.
[01:01:08]  I don't have a power supply or is it still available?

=== Mistakes in Montana (15:20) ===

[01:01:16]  I mean, I think it still works.
[01:01:17]  I don't know what you have, sir.
[01:01:18]  So how can I answer that?
[01:01:20]  Oh, it's just a big green ham.
[01:01:23]  They're usually green, yeah.
[01:01:24]  Yeah.
[01:01:25]  What you need to do is look for a model number on it.
[01:01:30]  And then there are various stores, electronic stores, where you can go and get manuals that have schematics and perhaps even full manuals on a lot of that equipment, and that will then lead you in the direction of what you've got to do.
[01:01:46]  Oh, great.
[01:01:48]  Well, what if there's a commercial coming on?
[01:01:51]  Well, then, that means you've got to go.
[01:01:53]  Okay, well, good night in America.
[01:01:54]  Love you.
[01:01:57]  There's a commercial coming on.
[01:01:59]  We'll be right back.
[01:02:00]  This is Premier Networks.
[01:02:02]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[01:02:31]  Listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
[01:02:35]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 28th, 1996.
[01:02:40]  Top of the morning to you, and I don't frequently do this.
[01:02:43]  I just don't do it.
[01:02:44]  I get a million faxes like this, but I want you to understand how serious it is.
[01:02:51]  There are, I guess I should say, quite a number of fax networks across America for these patriot groups.
[01:03:03]  In quotes, please.
[01:03:05]  One of them is the American Patriot Facts Network.
[01:03:08]  I just had one role in, and it's so typical.
[01:03:12]  It's so typical, and it's the reason I'm discussing what's going on, frankly, in Montana, and talking with the people of Montana so that you can hear what they say.
[01:03:26]  Nothing fed through the media screening system.
[01:03:32]  Nothing that got left on the cutting room floor.
[01:03:35]  But I've got my lines open to the people of Montana.
[01:03:39]  And the real thing, but just listen to what this American Patriot Facts Network wrote.
[01:03:46]  I'll read from about the last third of this news release entitled More Lies from the Media.
[01:03:53]  Did you see this?
[01:03:54]  It says, Sam Donaldson and ABC declare war on the people of the United States of America.
[01:04:01]  Did Sam do that?
[01:04:03]  It says, it is clear the Zionists, Zionists, who own ABC have declared war on the people, having chosen Donaldson and Jennings to be their generals to lead the charge.
[01:04:17]  They have chosen the public media, which they dominate, to launch a campaign of slander and half-truth.
[01:04:23]  They're talking about Montana now.
[01:04:25]  We must use our arsenal to destroy their economy.
[01:04:29]  By destroying their economy, we remove the ammunition for their media cannons and remove the fuel for their gigantic media engine.
[01:04:39]  It is clear that Donaldson, Jennings, and ABC must be commercially denied.
[01:04:44]  They must pay the price for their actions, and they must be added to the growing list of treasonous individuals who would bring our great nation to its collective knees.
[01:04:56]  The gauntlet has been thrown down.
[01:04:58]  The battle has begun.
[01:05:00]  The enemy has finally shown his face to the public and in the light of day.
[01:05:06]  Steady, men, steady.
[01:05:08]  We have finally seen the whites of their eyes, and it's time to let fly.
[01:05:12]  Let us match paper with paper and musketball with musketball if we need to.
[01:05:21]  So that's the kind of thing that's flying around in these facts networks right now about what's going on in Montana.
[01:05:34]  They perceive this as a relatively innocent group of people, men, women, and some children.
[01:05:44]  These men who have done nothing but are under a terrible assault from an oppressive, repressive, socialist government.
[01:05:55]  And, you know, that's just so much absolute garbage.
[01:06:00]  The people of their very own community were getting to the point where they were going to take legal action on their own.
[01:06:08]  They were to the point, friends, neighbors, even relatives of these people, where they went out and bought themselves assault rifles and guns.
[01:06:18]  They were going to be deputized.
[01:06:21]  And they were going to go in there and do what they thought the federal government wouldn't do.
[01:06:27]  I mean, that's what's really going on there.
[01:06:32]  And this is dangerous.
[01:06:34]  Very, very dangerous.
[01:06:36]  And I feel some need.
[01:06:38]  I'm compelled to let you all hear the truth.
[01:06:46]  Whether or not you're getting it from the major media is one thing.
[01:06:51]  But you're going to get it here.
[01:06:53]  You're going to hear from the people who are there.
[01:06:55]  Why don't you listen to them?
[01:06:58]  I mean, I get faxes from people who say, God, what a sellout you are, Belle, to the feds, you know, and the government.
[01:07:08]  No, I'm not.
[01:07:09]  I'm looking at this, I hope, and I think, objectively.
[01:07:13]  These people are not heroes.
[01:07:15]  These people don't fit my definition of a patriot.
[01:07:20]  And I think that is also true of the people who live in Montana.
[01:07:25]  And so those of you who would pick up your muskets and cannonballs or whatever it is as suggested in here, musketballs and muskets, you better listen carefully.
[01:07:36]  And you better be damn careful about what kind of banner you pick up and march off as to war against anybody.
[01:07:45]  Better know what you're defending before you decide to defend it.
[01:07:49]  Because a lot of people out there, in their blind and sometimes somewhat justified hatred and distrust of the federal government, will take up sides and issues with anybody.
[01:08:03]  Don't do that.
[01:08:05]  Know what it is you're defending.
[01:08:07]  Know whether there's been real crimes committed here or not before you go defending anybody.
[01:08:17]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:08:19]  Hi.
[01:08:20]  Hi, it's Scott from Minneapolis.
[01:08:22]  I can barely hear you.
[01:08:23]  Oh, hi, this is Scott from Minneapolis.
[01:08:25]  Yes, Scott, what's on your mind?
[01:08:26]  Yeah, has there been any recent reports of any Bigfoot sightings or anything like that?
[01:08:33]  Not that I'm aware of.
[01:08:34]  Oh, any updated?
[01:08:36]  I have another quick question to you.
[01:08:37]  I just tuned in, and I was just wondering these photographs.
[01:08:40]  What are the evidence of?
[01:08:43]  You mean the ones on the website?
[01:08:44]  Yeah.
[01:08:45]  Large, mile-high, multiple-mile-high structures on the moon.
[01:08:50]  Really?
[01:08:51]  Really?
[01:08:52]  Wow.
[01:08:53]  If I am not able to get to the website, how can I obtain a picture of it?
[01:08:59]  The next best thing, I guess, thank you, would be to subscribe to our newsletter.
[01:09:03]  We're going to be getting them in there.
[01:09:07]  I realize there are many people who don't have computers.
[01:09:11]  The only other thing I can think to do as a way of getting all this out there is to put them in the newsletter and publish them and hope that they are then published by others.
[01:09:27]  So, naturally, anybody wanting to publish what we put in the newsletter needs to come to us and secure our permission to do so.
[01:09:36]  But we have been very liberal with that and will continue to be because the object is to get them out there.
[01:09:44]  So, if you want a copy of our newsletter, ongoing every month, we do more and more and more.
[01:09:52]  It's in there.
[01:09:53]  Subscribe.
[01:09:54]  The number is 1-800-917-4278.
[01:10:01]  1-800-917-4278.
[01:10:06]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:10:08]  Hi.
[01:10:09]  Yes.
[01:10:10]  Hello.
[01:10:12]  I went to Idaho for a while, and while I was there, I had a girlfriend who her manager lived in Billings.
[01:10:22]  Why did she have a manager?
[01:10:23]  Well, she worked at this pizza place.
[01:10:27]  And the manager there, he was from Billings.
[01:10:30]  I see, all right, yes.
[01:10:32]  And he and his uncle were both Freeman.
[01:10:37]  Okay.
[01:10:38]  And his name was Ralph, and the manager's name was Ralph, and his uncle's name was Fred.
[01:10:45]  And they, you know, they seem to be on shady side of thing all the time.
[01:10:53]  And I don't know.
[01:10:58]  They wanted me to come and listen to some of the things they were wanting to talk about and stuff.
[01:11:03]  Some of the things they said is just way out of hand.
[01:11:06]  Oh, so you went and listened?
[01:11:07]  No, no, no, not like that.
[01:11:09]  How do you know the things they were talking about?
[01:11:11]  When they would just talk like just in general to you.
[01:11:14]  I see.
[01:11:14]  All right.
[01:11:14]  Well, thank you.
[01:11:18]  That's sort of a second-hand or third-hand report.
[01:11:25]  Once again, I would enjoy hearing from the Billings area.
[01:11:29]  I think it's important.
[01:11:32]  I really do think it's important.
[01:11:36]  Because the stories and the facts and the paranoia is just flying around out there in the Patriot, so-called Patriot community.
[01:11:46]  You have no idea how widespread all of this is.
[01:11:52]  Just absolutely tremendous.
[01:11:58]  And it needs to be countered.
[01:12:00]  And the only way I think we're going to prevent some sort of awful tragedy is to get the truth out.
[01:12:06]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:12:08]  Hello.
[01:12:09]  Hey, Art.
[01:12:10]  Hello.
[01:12:10]  Hi, I've been just this Montana thing.
[01:12:13]  This is Jim from Great Falls.
[01:12:14]  Yes.
[01:12:15]  Yeah, I've been hearing about this.
[01:12:18]  I've been amazed by some of the callers that are outside of Montana.
[01:12:23]  Well, there's a very great chasm of difference between the calls we get from people in Montana and those we get from outside Montana.
[01:12:32]  Typically, I'll get a call from Los Angeles or some other metropolitan area, and the people will be all on the side of these poor, suppressed, repressed, innocent free men.
[01:12:44]  But then I get calls from Montana, and they say, thank God the FBI is here.
[01:12:49]  It's about time.
[01:12:51]  We've been scared to death.
[01:12:53]  It's been sort of like a siege here.
[01:12:56]  It's been terrorism.
[01:12:58]  Thank God they're here.
[01:12:59]  We would have had to do something ourselves.
[01:13:01]  Well, that's absolutely right.
[01:13:03]  I've been to Jordan.
[01:13:04]  I've talked to the judge out there.
[01:13:06]  And by the way, his name is Art also.
[01:13:09]  And he only has one sheriff and one deputy.
[01:13:15]  And they are, I am sure, because the way they have things done there, they try to keep things in-house as best as possible, but this has gone way out of hand.
[01:13:24]  And right now, I mean, when I listen to all your callers that are coming outside the area, I can see why they wanted to keep things within-house.
[01:13:33]  And right now, I don't blame them.
[01:13:36]  It's gotten way out of hand, and they are welcoming federal help out there.
[01:13:42]  And, you know, a lot of us that are watching them from here are thinking the same thing, too.
[01:13:49]  I appreciate your call, sir.
[01:13:50]  And there's a young man in Montana.
[01:13:55]  Let's do it again.
[01:13:56]  I guess there really is no other way.
[01:13:59]  The allegations flying around in the fax networks are that the major networks, ABC, NBC, all the rest of them, in this one, ABC, are serving up nothing but lies to the American people.
[01:14:14]  Lies demonizing these poor free men.
[01:14:22]  And I think the American Patriot Facts Network and the other networks that are doing this are making a tragic mistake in backing these people.
[01:14:33]  I don't know why they're doing it.
[01:14:35]  I guess it's a knee-jerk kind of, quote, patriot, end quote, reaction without really looking into the facts of what's been going on with these so-called free men, without listening to the people in the area.
[01:14:49]  This is not Waco, folks.
[01:14:52]  Even though there were assorted rumors of child molestation and the rest of it at Waco, the great majority of the real news coming out of Waco, both before and after the incident from the people of Waco was that, well, the people out at the compound are not a problem.
[01:15:11]  We're not threatened.
[01:15:12]  Oh, there were a few gunshots on a range behind the compound at Waco.
[01:15:19]  But nothing serious.
[01:15:21]  The people of Waco basically were not disturbed about it.
[01:15:25]  I recall an interview with the sheriff at Waco saying, you know, I could have handled this.
[01:15:31]  They should have come to me.
[01:15:33]  They didn't have to do all of that.
[01:15:36]  So the community around Waco was not disturbed.
[01:15:39]  The community around Jordan is damn disturbed.
[01:15:43]  And these situations are not the same.
[01:15:47]  And yet these organizations like FBN and the rest of them, in a knee-jerk way, seem to be leaping to the defense of these free men.
[01:16:00]  It is a mistake.
[01:16:02]  It will affect their credibility, which I had already been questioning for a long time.
[01:16:13]  So, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:16:15]  Hello.
[01:16:15]  Morning, Art.
[01:16:16]  Good morning.
[01:16:17]  Brian and Dana Point.
[01:16:18]  Yes, sir.

=== Nixon, Reagan, Ford, Bush, Carter, Clinton (02:27) ===

[01:16:19]  Instead of talking about that situation in Montana, let's talk about politics and the cycle.
[01:16:26]  Something else occurred to me recently.
[01:16:28]  We had Nixon and Reagan, two popular presidents who were both elected to two terms.
[01:16:34]  Of course, Nixon didn't finish his, but then they were in turn replaced by Ford and Bush, a couple of one-term losers who were stuck in there, and then they were in turn replaced by Carter and Clinton, two southern presidents.
[01:16:48]  Kind of a cycle that's all gone through.
[01:16:50]  And of course, if that cycle repeats itself, then Clinton won't win his re-election.
[01:16:55]  Well, you had the chronology a little out of whack there.
[01:16:59]  Could I do wrong?
[01:16:59]  Carter and Clinton?
[01:17:01]  They were replaced by Carter and Clinton?
[01:17:03]  Well, I'm saying there was Nixon and Reagan, who were in turn replaced by Ford and Bush.
[01:17:08]  I guess.
[01:17:09]  And then they were in turn replaced by Carter and Clinton.
[01:17:13]  No, Carter did not replace Bush.
[01:17:17]  No, I'm saying that.
[01:17:21]  I said, God, I've got me confused now.
[01:17:24]  I thought I got it right.
[01:17:25]  I don't think so.
[01:17:27]  Well, but you understand what I'm saying, that there was Ford and Bush were both the replacements.
[01:17:33]  I think Carter came before Reagan.
[01:17:36]  No, I know he did.
[01:17:37]  Well, not in your presentation.
[01:17:40]  I'm sorry.
[01:17:42]  Oh, he hung up.
[01:17:44]  Well, politics is at best difficult, and you just had it a little wrong.
[01:17:49]  That's all.
[01:17:50]  Not sure what you were trying to say, but I appreciate your trying to say it anyway.
[01:17:54]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[01:17:56]  Yeah, hi, Art.
[01:17:57]  Hello.
[01:17:58]  Steve from South Dakota.
[01:17:59]  Yes, sir.
[01:18:00]  Can I turn my radio down here?
[01:18:01]  I hope so.
[01:18:02]  Okay, thanks.
[01:18:04]  I was sort of disturbed and really surprised at NPR today because I heard that shoal.
[01:18:10]  And the interviewer asked Buzz Aldrin about those castles in the sky.
[01:18:15]  Yes.
[01:18:15]  And the interviewer was really sort of, he asked him sort of in a clownish way, you know, about it.
[01:18:23]  And Buzz Aldrin said, absolutely not.
[01:18:25]  It's ridiculous.
[01:18:27]  And he said the interviewer said, thanks, you've saved my career.

=== Gateway Open? (03:37) ===

[01:18:34]  You mean his career was threatened by his comedy routine, apparently?
[01:18:39]  I guess.
[01:18:40]  And I came home, and I wanted to tape this thing because all things considered here in South Dakota comes on twice a day.
[01:18:47]  Right.
[01:18:47]  And I couldn't get it.
[01:18:49]  And I heard Richard Hoakland tonight saying if anybody had a tape, he'd like to have it.
[01:18:53]  And I was just frustrated to death.
[01:18:55]  That you didn't have it.
[01:18:56]  No, I couldn't get it.
[01:18:59]  But I'm so fascinated by this whole thing, and I'd really like to help him out.
[01:19:06]  I have a telescope, but I don't have a computer.
[01:19:09]  I'm computer illiterate.
[01:19:11]  And I was reading, there's a friend of mine that has one, and he downloaded some material here from your web.
[01:19:18]  Yes.
[01:19:18]  And there's an address here to obtain high-quality prints or electronic copies of any photos presented on any page in your web.
[01:19:27]  And I'd like to give it on the air if I possibly could.
[01:19:31]  Well, it's a web address?
[01:19:34]  Yeah, it's for the Enterprise Mission.
[01:19:36]  Oh, the Enterprise.
[01:19:37]  Well, you don't have to give that out.
[01:19:38]  All they need to do is go to my website and click on the Enterprise Mission.
[01:19:42]  Well, there are some people that don't have computers.
[01:19:47]  Well, then they wouldn't be able to get there anyway, would they?
[01:19:49]  They could mail for the photographs, though.
[01:19:52]  All right, sir.
[01:19:53]  Thank you for the time.
[01:19:54]  You bet.
[01:19:55]  Thank you for the call.
[01:20:15]  Apparently, our toll-free international line is still not fully operable.
[01:20:21]  I noticed they've got the lockout in this country pretty well taken care of.
[01:20:25]  That's nice.
[01:20:27]  And they may not have the gateway open just yet, but they're close.
[01:20:32]  I know they're close.
[01:20:34]  If you would like to try it internationally, who knows, somebody might be able to get through from some country out there.
[01:20:41]  It is toll-free from all over the world when they get it working.
[01:20:46]  It might work now.
[01:20:47]  So if somebody out there would try it, I would appreciate it.
[01:20:52]  All you do is call your ATT USA direct access number.
[01:20:58]  That's your ATT USA direct access number.
[01:21:01]  And then our 800 number.
[01:21:04]  If you get through, it will be toll-free.
[01:21:08]  The number is 800-893-0903.
[01:21:16]  That's 800-893-0903.
[01:21:22]  And it would be indeed grand if somebody managed to get through.
[01:21:25]  And one of these nights, folks, and I think soon, assuming they're able to work their magic, all of a sudden, it's going to open up and we're going to begin to get international calls.
[01:21:39]  It will happen.
[01:21:41]  It's just a matter of when.
[01:21:42]  Now, I jumped the gun a little bit because I noticed the lockout was now in effect.
[01:21:46]  They still, I think, don't have the gateway open, but give it a try.
[01:21:52]  All right, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, get the latest in news, and we'll be right back.

=== Definitions Clarified (15:17) ===

[01:21:59]  The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast A.M. More somewhere in time coming up.
[01:22:07]  The drums are going tonight.
[01:22:10]  She has only whispers of some quiet conversation.
[01:22:35]  We take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[01:22:40]  Aren't your caller who described the succession of presidents got it right?
[01:22:45]  You did not understand.
[01:22:46]  Here's what the caller said.
[01:22:47]  Two popular presidents, Nixon and Reagan, well, I don't know, if Nixon was and is in some circles popular, I'm not sure that I'd bestow on him an overall popularity rating, were replaced with less popular one-termers, Ford and Bush.
[01:23:05]  Both of these were replaced by Southern Democrats.
[01:23:08]  Carter replaced Ford and Clinton replaced Bush.
[01:23:11]  The caller was trying to say that since Carter lost, so will Clinton.
[01:23:15]  Point is moronic and hardly worth noting, but he was trying to make a pattern.
[01:23:19]  What he forgets is that both Reagan and Clinton were extremely charismatic candidates.
[01:23:24]  He did not account for Dole's total lack of charisma.
[01:23:29]  Well, I guess that's true.
[01:23:30]  And if I misheard what that caller said, I'm sorry.
[01:23:32]  I just somehow I didn't get it.
[01:23:34]  I thought he was trying to tell me that somebody other than who he was suggesting was previous to Carter.
[01:23:47]  So I thought he had the chronology wrong.
[01:23:49]  If he had it right and I had it wrong, I'm sorry about that.
[01:23:51]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:23:53]  Hello.
[01:23:54]  Yeah, I was calling in reference to a previous caller called from Montana about the Freemen.
[01:24:02]  Yes.
[01:24:03]  And I'm calling from down here in Houston, and it seems to me that those folks have been having serious problems, I guess, I guess for about three or four years now, and local officials have been threatened by these folks.
[01:24:19]  Yes.
[01:24:20]  And I'm kind of glad to see that the federal government has decided to step in and assist their local law enforcement.
[01:24:28]  But I'm kind of glad they've also waited this long to basically set up not quite a perimeter, but basically just to keep an eye on things.
[01:24:39]  Well, I guess they've got what they call, I guess they've got what they call rolling roadblocks, and so they're trying to keep people as best they can out of the area.
[01:24:46]  But, you know, they haven't set up a situation like they had at Waco.
[01:24:50]  And I hope they can take and saw this in a peaceful, meaningful manner without having to reach that type of episode.
[01:24:57]  But if it does come to that, at least they have some people that can actually take care of the problem without it getting out of hand.
[01:25:05]  Quite correct.
[01:25:06]  I couldn't agree more.
[01:25:07]  Thank you very much for the call.
[01:25:09]  And I think in the end that it's going to come down to those who are holed up in that house or compound or farmhouse or whatever it is you want to call it.
[01:25:17]  We get all caught up in terms.
[01:25:19]  And the media does certainly a disservice by describing these people as militia people.
[01:25:24]  They're not, to the best of my knowledge, they certainly are not.
[01:25:29]  They are more aptly described, I suppose, as militants.
[01:25:35]  That's the word that I would have chosen.
[01:25:36]  It's the one NBC finally used.
[01:25:38]  And then in the second paragraph of their reporting, it was back to militia again.
[01:25:44]  Farmhouse or compound?
[01:25:48]  I don't know.
[01:25:52]  A place where people are presently holed up and won't come out.
[01:25:56]  What I want to prevent here is a misunderstanding of who these people are.
[01:26:01]  And if you read the various faxes that are flying about in the so-called Patriot Facts Networks, these are innocent, downtrodden, oppressed people the government has simply decided to move in on for no discernible reason.
[01:26:16]  And it's simply not true.
[01:26:20]  And if you want to avoid a tragedy, you will look into this and find that out for yourself.
[01:26:26]  It's not the, quote, what was it, Zionist media that's perpetrating all of this.
[01:26:33]  It just simply is not the case.
[01:26:36]  All right, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
[01:26:38]  I'm going to take care of a little bit of business here.
[01:26:41]  Then I'm going to let the audience at this hour hear a phone call.
[01:26:46]  I got from a man who declared himself to be a free man last night.
[01:26:50]  This call really must be heard.
[01:26:53]  So we'll be doing that in just a moment.
[01:26:56]  What I'm going to do, because it was key, and I realize you will hear in my voice some frustration.
[01:27:22]  And you may feel it yourself as you listen to the following telephone call that occurred last night from a man who said he was a free man in Montana.
[01:27:33]  Listen very carefully to the following telephone call.
[01:27:37]  Roll it, Tenna.
[01:27:38]  I believe Bozeman, Montana, you're on the air.
[01:27:41]  Good morning.
[01:27:42]  Thank you, Gart.
[01:27:44]  I guess I've been in the middle of this whole thing for about a year.
[01:27:50]  I was there yesterday in the arraignment.
[01:27:53]  They physically attacked me as I was talking to some of the reporters there and hauled me to jail.
[01:28:00]  Who physically attacked you?
[01:28:02]  Oh, the Deputy Sheriff, the U.S. Marshals.
[01:28:06]  I don't know, there was about 10 of them.
[01:28:08]  Why did they attack you?
[01:28:10]  Well, they said that there was a warrant for my arrest out of both, which there had not been one because I've been fighting.
[01:28:20]  On what charge?
[01:28:22]  Leaving the county.
[01:28:24]  Leaving the county?
[01:28:25]  No, that's not against the law.
[01:28:27]  Well, I know.
[01:28:28]  Well, no, no, come on now.
[01:28:29]  Don't just fluff over this.
[01:28:31]  People don't issue warrants for no reason.
[01:28:33]  Now, were you ordered to stay in the county because of some prior offense?
[01:28:38]  Well, they were trying to say that, yes, there was an order.
[01:28:42]  That order, if you get into the situation of the Emergency War Powers Act, I don't know if you're familiar with...
[01:28:53]  Don't hit me with emergency war powers.
[01:28:56]  Tell me.
[01:28:56]  Well, it all ties into that.
[01:28:58]  Well, all right, fine.
[01:28:59]  But let's keep it so that we can all understand it.
[01:29:03]  Why was there an order for you to remain in the county, or why did they say there was one?
[01:29:09]  On what grounds?
[01:29:10]  Well, I've been in contact with the Freemen fighting, I guess, unlawful acts, what I would consider from agents, county government, basically on the right to travel.
[01:29:31]  Sir, nobody disputes the right to travel.
[01:29:34]  Yes, well, they do.
[01:29:36]  No, they don't.
[01:29:37]  Now, come on, you're not leveling with me.
[01:29:40]  Why was there an order restricting you to remain within the county?
[01:29:44]  There had to be a reason for that.
[01:29:45]  Well, probably because they didn't want me talking to the freemen, okay?
[01:29:49]  No, that's not legally.
[01:29:51]  Well, I know it's not legal, but we have a saying up here.
[01:29:55]  Yes.
[01:29:55]  And that is, they can't do that, can they?
[01:29:58]  And they do it, and they do it, and they do it.
[01:30:02]  And anyway, that's kind of what drove Leroy.
[01:30:07]  Leroy came Sweitzer, came from this same area, went through the same battles that I've been going through for a year on the right to travel.
[01:30:18]  Now, see, again, you're being very, at the moment, disingenuous with us because you're not telling us what this is really about.
[01:30:30]  They can't order me to not leave the county unless I have done something to justify it.
[01:30:35]  The order has to be based on something that I've done.
[01:30:39]  Maybe I'm charged or I've been convicted of something or for a specific legal reason.
[01:30:46]  Lay that out for us, sir.
[01:30:47]  What is it?
[01:30:49]  Well, I don't know.
[01:30:52]  You know, I guess I don't know what you're asking for.
[01:30:54]  I'm trying to explain it as good as I can.
[01:30:58]  Well, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to do better.
[01:31:00]  Now, there is a specific, let me lay it out slowly and easily so you can understand.
[01:31:06]  There has to be a specific reason for any court order that would limit your travel.
[01:31:11]  In other words, you would have had to have been convicted of something.
[01:31:16]  I was not convicted of anything.
[01:31:18]  You were not convicted of anything.
[01:31:19]  No.
[01:31:22]  What did happen was it stemmed from an issue of a no-driver's license.
[01:31:29]  Aha.
[01:31:30]  So you had no driver's license.
[01:31:33]  Well, yes, I did have.
[01:31:36]  I mean, not at the time.
[01:31:38]  I've been fighting this thing for a year.
[01:31:40]  Finally, I decided, all right, I have, there are literally hundreds of Supreme Court cases and other cases that says that we have the right to travel without a license.
[01:31:56]  Oh, now, wait a minute, now, wait a minute.
[01:31:58]  A right to travel.
[01:31:59]  See, now, you can walk anywhere you want.
[01:32:03]  Nobody's restricting your right to walk anywhere you want.
[01:32:06]  But if you want to drive, it's true.
[01:32:08]  The state says, and my state says, and every state says, you must have a driver's license.
[01:32:13]  So you were then taking the position that you don't need a driver's license.
[01:32:18]  Is that correct?
[01:32:19]  Well, that is correct.
[01:32:21]  I have, like I just said, there are literally hundreds of different law cases going back to, well, I guess since we had automobiles and before that, that we could travel, we could use the right-of-ways for our travel without license.
[01:32:46]  Do you have no one quick question for you?
[01:32:50]  Do you pay income tax, or do you believe that that is also unconstitutional and illegal?
[01:32:55]  Well, Article 1, Section 9, says there will be no direct tax.
[01:33:03]  Now, but let's lay it.
[01:33:04]  Wait a minute here.
[01:33:06]  You're lumping taxes.
[01:33:08]  Well, I'll tell you why.
[01:33:09]  Because how do you think the roads get there?
[01:33:13]  Well, in this state, we pay 52 cents a gallon for every gallon of gas or diesel fuel that we put into our automobiles.
[01:33:21]  I don't know what it is in your state.
[01:33:23]  Well, in every state, sir, and I presume in Montana, you do have interstate highways, do you not?
[01:33:28]  Yes, we do.
[01:33:29]  You do.
[01:33:29]  How do you think those get there?
[01:33:31]  What did I just say?
[01:33:33]  You said there was a tax on gasoline, but not all of the money to build those roads, sir, nor many other roads, comes from only that tax.
[01:33:41]  It comes from general revenues and the highway appropriations bill.
[01:33:47]  Do you pay a tax on every battery, on every belt that you put on your car, on every tire, on every car, on every truck, on every trailer?
[01:33:58]  It could go on and on.
[01:33:59]  There are excise taxes.
[01:34:01]  Those are lawful, legitimate taxes.
[01:34:05]  In fact, if you really read the Constitution, it says that the lawful taxes are excise taxes, import taxes, and impost duties.
[01:34:16]  Now, we ran this country for 1 basically 50 years without income taxes.
[01:34:24]  And it says specifically in the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 9, I think, that there will be no direct tax.
[01:34:34]  Now, they tried back in the early late 1800s, 1900s, to get an income tax.
[01:34:42]  All right, I am familiar with the arguments against income tax.
[01:34:46]  Do you consider yourself a free man?
[01:34:49]  Yes.
[01:34:49]  You do.
[01:34:50]  Now, in conjunction with that, I would like to read a couple of definitions here.
[01:34:56]  All right.
[01:34:56]  Read me a definition of a free man.
[01:34:59]  Okay, this comes.
[01:35:01]  You can go to Black's Law Dictionary or Bouvier's Law Dictionary, and it says, what is a free man?
[01:35:07]  One who enjoys liberty or who is not subject to the will of another.
[01:35:12]  That's the first one.
[01:35:14]  Second, one who enjoys or is entitled to a franchise or peculiar privilege.
[01:35:20]  That's from Noah's Webster's Dictionary, 1828.
[01:35:25]  Which definition do you subscribe to?
[01:35:27]  Well, these are all part of the same thing.
[01:35:31]  Those two came out of Webster's, I guess.
[01:35:34]  One who enjoys a peculiar privilege.
[01:35:36]  That's an interesting definition.
[01:35:38]  Then in peculiar, it said, God's peculiar treasure.
[01:35:43]  Holy Scriptures.
[01:35:45]  I don't know what that is.
[01:35:46]  But anyway, okay, let's go to Black's Law Dictionary.
[01:35:50]  A person in the possession and enjoyment of all civil and political rights accorded to the people under a free government.
[01:35:59]  Does that word free government ring a bell?
[01:36:04]  Yes, oh, it does.
[01:36:05]  And I believe that ours is a free government, as close to the definition that is of one as exists in the world.
[01:36:13]  And I've seen a lot of them.
[01:36:15]  Okay.
[01:36:16]  There's another one out of Balanta.
[01:36:18]  Have you, sir?
[01:36:19]  I've had enough definitions.
[01:36:21]  Have you been to other countries?
[01:36:24]  Have you seen other governments?
[01:36:26]  Oh, yeah.
[01:36:27]  You have.
[01:36:28]  Which one have you seen that you regard as freer than ours?
[01:36:34]  Well, you know, you hear that kind of argument all the time.
[01:36:37]  Well, no, don't answer the question.
[01:36:40]  I mean, it's a good question, sir.
[01:36:41]  It is, and I'm going to try to explain that.
[01:36:44]  It's a relative term.
[01:36:45]  There's no such thing as total, absolute freedom.
[01:36:47]  There are rules and regulations wherever you go and whatever you do.
[01:36:50]  So my question is, which government have you seen that would be freer?
[01:36:55]  Well, I guess I could say this.

=== Listen Cannot Own Property (00:53) ===

[01:36:58]  I haven't been to China, but I just had a good friend who returned from there.
[01:37:03]  And he considered, I mean, you know, they're free.
[01:37:06]  No, they're not.
[01:37:08]  They're free to go where they want to to do what they want.
[01:37:11]  No, they're not.
[01:37:12]  They cannot own property.
[01:37:15]  They cannot.
[01:37:16]  Oh, geez.
[01:37:17]  You know.
[01:37:18]  You know, you better take.
[01:37:19]  All right.
[01:37:19]  Listen.
[01:37:21]  I can't take any more time.
[01:37:23]  I have something that's very important that I'd like to get out to the public.
[01:37:26]  All right, get it out.
[01:37:27]  This is what's going on with Leroy Schweitzer.
[01:37:29]  He is currently in the Yellowstone County Detention Center.
[01:37:33]  Yes.
[01:37:34]  They are trying to book him in, and he is exerting his constitutional rights not to be booked in.

=== Invest in Commodities for 800 Gold (03:48) ===

[01:37:45]  Right now, they have to be able to do that.
[01:37:48]  What have they charged him with?
[01:37:50]  Well, I guess he was one of the two that was arrested at the end of the day.
[01:37:58]  Okay.
[01:37:59]  They, I guess, writing bogus checks or whatever.
[01:38:04]  That's their charge.
[01:38:05]  I see.
[01:38:06]  Well, indeed, you can be booked on such a charge.
[01:38:10]  Well, you can be booked if you allow yourself, but you don't have to be.
[01:38:15]  That is your constant.
[01:38:16]  Another thing you got to volunteer for.
[01:38:18]  All right.
[01:38:18]  Thank you very much for the call.
[01:38:19]  What a bunch of tripe.
[01:38:22]  So there is another thing you got to volunteer for.
[01:38:25]  All right.
[01:38:25]  Thank you very much for the call.
[01:38:26]  What a bunch of tripe.
[01:38:27]  All right.
[01:38:31]  Yes, now that I listen to it, it reminds me how much tripe it was.
[01:38:35]  You can be volunteered to be booked.
[01:38:38]  They're going to booked you on a charge.
[01:38:40]  You don't have to be booked.
[01:38:42]  Only if you volunteer to be booked.
[01:38:44]  Do you have to be booked?
[01:38:47]  Gee, maybe that's true in China.
[01:38:51]  Economic survival.
[01:38:53]  It's becoming more difficult every single year.
[01:38:55]  So how do those of us without college degrees learn to become financially independent, take charge of our own lives?
[01:39:03]  The answer is simple, the commodities market.
[01:39:05]  And I know that for a lot of people, commodities is a dirty word because the press has made it so.
[01:39:12]  Ken Roberts, though, is a man who makes it a good word.
[01:39:17]  He's nationally renowned, internationally renowned, as being very ethical, very moral.
[01:39:25]  And he doesn't tell you what to invest in.
[01:39:28]  He teaches you how to invest yourself.
[01:39:32]  It's not a get-rich-quick scheme.
[01:39:35]  I've spoken with all sorts of people now who have been through his proven method.
[01:39:41]  It is a simple, step-by-step learning process.
[01:39:45]  You learn how to invest.
[01:39:47]  You do it on paper.
[01:39:48]  You don't risk a penny.
[01:39:50]  Then when you're ready, you begin using real money.
[01:39:54]  So listen to me closely.
[01:39:56]  This man is making you a real offer here.
[01:40:00]  It is a free money kit.
[01:40:04]  It'll tell you how he does what he does and how you can do it.
[01:40:09]  And all of this will not cost you a penny.
[01:40:13]  In fact, it might make you a lot of money.
[01:40:17]  So go at least this far.
[01:40:19]  Get the information on what this is.
[01:40:22]  Take a good look and decide for yourself.
[01:40:24]  It's a good offer.
[01:40:26]  From a very reputable company.
[01:40:30]  Call 1-800-GOLD K-R-C.
[01:40:33]  That's 1-800-GOLD, G-O-L-D, K-R-C.
[01:40:40]  1-800-GOLD, as in that which glitters, and then K-R-C, as in Ken Roberts Company.
[01:40:49]  They'll send you a free money kit.
[01:40:50]  The rest is up to you.
[01:40:53]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:40:55]  Would have been on the air.
[01:40:56]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[01:40:58]  Good morning.
[01:40:59]  Good morning.
[01:41:00]  Hi.
[01:41:01]  Turn your radio off, please.
[01:41:03]  I'm during that delay.
[01:41:05]  Hi.
[01:41:05]  Yes.
[01:41:06]  I've got four quick points, and I think you're going to find them interesting.

=== Richard Colling Defends (03:11) ===

[01:41:11]  All right.
[01:41:12]  This is Richard Colling from Los Angeles.
[01:41:14]  As you predicted, I've got something good to say about the gentleman in Montana, although I will tell you that I do not know any of them firsthand, and I at least know enough to say that.
[01:41:24]  All right, let's hear what good you have to say.
[01:41:25]  What I have good to say is this.
[01:41:28]  I'm afraid that pillory-ing Leroy Schweitzer as a shoot-em-up Yahoo not only fails to do him justice, it fails to do justice to the public.
[01:41:38]  I know of him through several people very close to him.
[01:41:40]  He's a highly articulate man, extremely well educated in the law, and the proof of it I got this afternoon from my mother.
[01:41:49]  All right, listen, here's what I'm going to do.
[01:41:51]  I'm at a break point here.
[01:41:52]  All right.
[01:41:53]  Can you hold on through the break?
[01:41:56]  Absolutely.
[01:41:56]  All right.
[01:41:57]  Well, you will not hear anything.
[01:41:58]  Don't let that worry you.
[01:41:59]  I've been trying to get ready for an hour and a half, so I can talk to five minutes.
[01:42:02]  Yeah, that's fine.
[01:42:02]  All right.
[01:42:03]  We'll be back to you.
[01:42:05]  And from Los Angeles, good words about the Freemen coming up.
[01:42:09]  Stay right there.
[01:42:10]  You are listening to our bell somewhere in time.
[01:42:14]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 28, 1996.
[01:42:49]  Tonight featuring Ghost to Ghost AM from March 28th, 1996.
[01:42:54]  And I have a gentleman here from Los Angeles.
[01:42:58]  Maybe it was prophetic.
[01:42:59]  I prophesied somebody from L.A. would call and defend the free men.
[01:43:04]  It would be kind of fun to get somebody from Montana, from the Jordan or Billings area of Montana.
[01:43:11]  So let me hold open my West of the Rockies line for that at 1-800-618-8255, the Billings, Jordan area, at 1-800-618-8255.
[01:43:25]  Somebody who's living with this right now would be very interesting to have.
[01:43:30]  But right now, back to Los Angeles, and I want to let you have your say, sir, so go ahead.
[01:43:35]  All right.
[01:43:35]  Well, I would volunteer to move to Montana, but unfortunately, it's a little late to have built up enough lifetime there to be able to tell you.
[01:43:44]  But my roommate from college was there, so maybe that'll serve.
[01:43:48]  Anyway, allow me a brief but pertinent lead-in will help establish my credibility.
[01:43:52]  First thing, you probably or may not know, Leroy does teach a course.
[01:43:57]  It's on video now in the filing of common law liens.
[01:44:00]  I have not personally studied it, but I do work closely with four extremely experienced people in the law who have the fruit on the tree.

=== IRS Sting Operation (15:16) ===

[01:44:08]  Right.
[01:44:08]  Here's the deal.
[01:44:10]  Here's the lead-in, and it's important.
[01:44:12]  Five years ago, I wrote a book, co-wrote it with someone else on detaxing America.
[01:44:18]  You're familiar with Dr. Martin Larson?
[01:44:20]  Remember him?
[01:44:20]  Yes, oh, of course.
[01:44:21]  All right.
[01:44:22]  He came out of retirement at 96 years old to write a review of that book for the spotlight, even though they'd already previously reviewed it.
[01:44:30]  He said it's a masterful analysis of the IRS code.
[01:44:35]  As a result, about a year later, when my mother had to pay a large, or was told by the IRS she had to pay a large capital gains tax, meaning about $40,000, and also to the state of California, she wrote the checks, and I said, Mother, what are you doing?
[01:44:50]  We've been over this already.
[01:44:52]  Sorry, you're not liable for that.
[01:44:54]  She stopped payment.
[01:44:55]  A little too late for California.
[01:44:57]  They got the check.
[01:44:58]  The IRS smelled blood because they got a check that now was stopped payment.
[01:45:02]  So they've been after.
[01:45:04]  First thing they told her was that they had a lien on her property.
[01:45:07]  Knowing that in about 1986, a congressman who was interviewed, who's interviewing the IRS, came out and told the press, listen, they just told me they operate a 90% bluff.
[01:45:17]  I called the county.
[01:45:19]  No lien.
[01:45:20]  False report.
[01:45:22]  Next thing, they then start adding on up to finally within the last few months about $32,000 or so thousand dollars in penalties, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:45:33]  My brother, who is her certified, or excuse me, her power of attorney, finds out, does Leroy's course, and serves the notice and lien, et cetera, does all the steps, and winds up by getting a warrant check for $72,777, which he sends off to them.
[01:45:56]  When the manure hit the air conditioner at the beginning of this week, we were thinking, uh-oh, are they going to come for us?
[01:46:03]  What came instead was a letter from the IRS to my mother today saying we are crediting your overpayment, the extra $10 beyond what you owed us, to some other account.
[01:46:16]  We know nothing because this is the first they've ever said about anything.
[01:46:19]  She's already stopped filing.
[01:46:22]  And it's gone.
[01:46:24]  These things work.
[01:46:27]  Well, look, there may be a lot of legal maneuvering that does work.
[01:46:32]  I'm not suggesting it doesn't.
[01:46:34]  I really don't know.
[01:46:35]  I'm not maneuvering art.
[01:46:36]  And I'm not defending.
[01:46:38]  Yes, it is legal maneuvering.
[01:46:39]  Listen, I'm not defending what is being done as far as any bullying is concerned.
[01:46:46]  I don't know, and I don't pretend to know.
[01:46:48]  And that's my concern about a person with your very articulate ability and your position there on the communication line that you don't know either.
[01:46:57]  You're getting hearsay.
[01:46:59]  Oh, you're absolutely.
[01:47:00]  All right.
[01:47:00]  Hold on.
[01:47:01]  Hold on.
[01:47:01]  All right.
[01:47:02]  Hold on one moment, all right?
[01:47:04]  Sure.
[01:47:04]  Here is somebody in Montana.
[01:47:07]  Hello?
[01:47:07]  That's still here.
[01:47:08]  Now, how do you know what it is, sir?
[01:47:10]  You haven't heard it yet.
[01:47:11]  Okay.
[01:47:12]  All right.
[01:47:13]  Hello there.
[01:47:14]  Yes.
[01:47:14]  Oh, you're in Montana?
[01:47:16]  That's correct.
[01:47:16]  Where are you?
[01:47:17]  I'm in Billings.
[01:47:18]  Billings.
[01:47:18]  All right.
[01:47:19]  Well, you're right there then.
[01:47:21]  What can you tell us about what you know about the people in Montana, the people around you, the people right there that are experiencing all of this with regard to the free men?
[01:47:34]  Okay, first of all, I have to applaud you, Art, because you are at least being honest and using common sense on this.
[01:47:41]  Most of the people in Billings on the local talk show here in the morning are, first of all, they're shocked that, you know, this is great as far as local press coverage, and now it's national press coverage of such a terrible event, and everyone has this misperception of what's going on up here.
[01:48:01]  Most people are absolutely opposed to what these freemen have been doing.
[01:48:05]  I mean, they've been basically terrorizing this area for about a year now.
[01:48:09]  Well, this caller just laid out sort of a success story from taking the Switzer class.
[01:48:23]  Now, let's get into bullying, and I don't think that's a good idea.
[01:48:24]  Okay, well, you said give us specifics.
[01:48:27]  So let's have them.
[01:48:29]  What specifically have these men been doing?
[01:48:32]  Okay, you want me to say?
[01:48:33]  Yeah, I do.
[01:48:34]  Okay.
[01:48:34]  Well, the first thing they did is about a year ago when they were in Musselshell County, which is just north of Billings in a little town called Roundup, about 50 miles here, they went into town, they went into a courthouse.
[01:48:48]  They wanted to hang one of the district attorneys there because he had ruled against them in a court case earlier.
[01:48:55]  You don't mean in a metaphoric sense.
[01:48:57]  You mean in a literal sense.
[01:48:59]  You mean really hang them.
[01:49:00]  Yeah, as a matter of fact, out on their compound right now, and by the way, their compound is a double-wide trailer, just for everyone's knowledge out there.
[01:49:09]  You know, they have a hangman noose out there along with a no trespassing and this would be the penalty if you do trespass on our property is you will be hanged.
[01:49:19]  So they wanted to actually hang?
[01:49:22]  Yeah, they've literally wanted to hang.
[01:49:23]  And apparently on this, how they caught these gentlemen is it was a sting operation.
[01:49:29]  These two gentlemen that were just caught.
[01:49:32]  It was a sting operation is what it was.
[01:49:34]  They were passing bogus money orders.
[01:49:37]  They probably just type them up either on a computer or something.
[01:49:41]  This last one, I guess, was for, from what I understand, it was like a bogus money order for a million dollars.
[01:49:47]  A million dollars.
[01:49:48]  I know they offered a million dollars in ransom if somebody would bring them was it your county prosecutor?
[01:49:56]  Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of people they want to uh and of course they've been they they've issued and and this is not a common thing they've issued uh warrants for the arrest because they want to uh they want to arrest, try and and then hang or execute not just the county prosecutors, the district attorneys in Musselshaw County.
[01:50:16]  They also have threatened the sheriff and things of that nature.
[01:50:20]  All right.
[01:50:20]  Um caller, did you hear that?
[01:50:23]  Sure, I did.
[01:50:23]  But it leaves me with this.
[01:50:25]  And again, I don't know these guys.
[01:50:27]  I'm not trying to take their part.
[01:50:29]  I am trying to take the part of common sense as far as evidence is concerned.
[01:50:34]  Which of these incidents does your has your caller from Montana personally witness?
[01:50:42]  Well, I haven't personally witnessed any of them.
[01:50:44]  So then it's all hearsay.
[01:50:45]  Well, I would say that is that a definition of hearsay, Art?
[01:50:49]  Yes, he did not personally witness it.
[01:50:53]  That's inadmissible.
[01:50:55]  But it is from the local area as opposed to the national press.
[01:50:59]  This is the local area.
[01:51:01]  This is common knowledge, is it not, sir, in your part of Montana?
[01:51:06]  Yeah, it's quite common knowledge.
[01:51:07]  You know, Art, you just played a call from a guy yesterday that claimed he was arrested.
[01:51:11]  Right.
[01:51:12]  Which I find amazing.
[01:51:13]  If he was arrested, how was it he was calling you that same night?
[01:51:18]  And when they had these people in court, there was one gentleman that was, I believe he was from, he may have been from Gellatin County, which is Bozeman, but I believe he was from Missoula, that was arrested because he was violating his parole, and they told him if he leaves the county, he will be violating his parole, and he'll be arrested.
[01:51:36]  No one was attacked down at the array.
[01:51:38]  This is the courthouse.
[01:51:39]  This is four blocks away from my office.
[01:51:41]  I mean, if there was a riot or fights or anything like that, this is a small enough town.
[01:51:46]  I mean, Billings is a town of 80,000 people.
[01:51:49]  Everybody knows everything that's going on in this town.
[01:51:52]  Moreover, it is also true that prior to the arrival of the FBI, actual relatives of the people in the compound and neighbors, farmers, were arming themselves, had had two meetings with the sheriff there, and they were going to take matters into their own hands, deputize people, and go take care of it themselves.
[01:52:12]  That's how terrorized the people in that area are.
[01:52:15]  Well, what they've done is they've made up their own name for their own town up in that area.
[01:52:21]  And you've got to understand, Jordan, Montana is a town of about 450 people.
[01:52:26]  It's in a county which is just a little bit smaller than the state of Connecticut.
[01:52:30]  The total number of people that live in this county are like 505 people.
[01:52:35]  So, you know, when you've got a bunch of people running around, they've set up their own court system.
[01:52:39]  They've set up their own make-believe town, and they're on their own ego trips.
[01:52:44]  Absolutely, these people in Jordan were not comfortable with them.
[01:52:48]  And, you know, they were arming themselves.
[01:52:52]  They're a threat to the community.
[01:52:55]  Caller?
[01:52:57]  I don't know.
[01:52:58]  He tells me that all of this is hearsay.
[01:53:01]  I only know that I don't know.
[01:53:03]  I'm only trying to get some kind of equity into this show.
[01:53:08]  Because, in fact, what's occurring is that this is being tried in the media.
[01:53:13]  Not just you.
[01:53:14]  You're probably being, frankly, I don't know whether you're being more balanced or not than the other.
[01:53:18]  I do know that I was the one who forwarded to you the APFN facts, and I was very disappointed in how you left out all the facts and only went to the op-ed part.
[01:53:29]  That was extremely unprofessional, Art.
[01:53:31]  Look, no, it wasn't.
[01:53:33]  No, it wasn't, sir, because I said exactly what I was reading of the facts.
[01:53:37]  Yeah, but you didn't say that you were leaving out the facts.
[01:53:41]  The facts that, and you said either last night or the night before, that they stole television equipment.
[01:53:47]  NBC.
[01:53:48]  Not CBS.
[01:53:49]  Not ABC.
[01:53:50]  It was ABC equipment.
[01:53:51]  No, it was NBC.
[01:53:52]  Was it NBC?
[01:53:53]  Brokaw reported straight out, factually, that their television camera and their videotape were taken at gunpoint with shotguns from men who pulled up behind the NBC van.
[01:54:11]  So that was NBC.
[01:54:12]  This ABC thing is a totally different story, sir.
[01:54:16]  Okay.
[01:54:17]  Okay.
[01:54:18]  However, if you were at NBC and they did that, what would you do?
[01:54:22]  What would I do if I was at NBC?
[01:54:25]  If somebody pulled a shotgun out.
[01:54:27]  If somebody pulled a shotgun out.
[01:54:28]  No, no, listen to me.
[01:54:29]  You didn't.
[01:54:30]  You do this.
[01:54:30]  You get part of an answer and you jump on it.
[01:54:33]  I said, you're back in New York.
[01:54:35]  You hear this happen to your guys out there.
[01:54:37]  Are you going to sit on it?
[01:54:37]  Are you going to let it happen?
[01:54:38]  Are you going to take some action right then?
[01:54:40]  Like what?
[01:54:41]  Like if the county police, excuse me, if the local police aren't up to it, and I don't know, there's still county sheriff.
[01:54:48]  There's a state marshal.
[01:54:49]  Where's this FBI coming from?
[01:54:51]  It doesn't fit.
[01:54:52]  There's something missing here.
[01:54:54]  That's all I'm trying to point out.
[01:54:55]  We don't have all the story.
[01:54:57]  And for you to say, how long can they hold out?
[01:55:05]  No, I only can't.
[01:55:06]  I didn't say that.
[01:55:07]  No, I didn't say that.
[01:55:08]  I'll bring you my words back, sir.
[01:55:10]  No, that's fine.
[01:55:11]  I said the only question is how this is going to end, peacefully or violently.
[01:55:16]  That's fine.
[01:55:17]  And that in the end, I believe it's going to be up to the people in that whatever you want to call it, farmhouse compound, double-wide, whatever.
[01:55:23]  Unfortunately, what I think has happened, what I find amazing, is how many people just, they want so bad for this to be another Waco, Texas.
[01:55:32]  They're looking for an excuse to have a shootout so they can point fingers and say, see, we told you so.
[01:55:38]  And I don't really, who knows?
[01:55:40]  They say there's between five and twenty people in the compound.
[01:55:43]  Apparently there are women and children there, but I'm not sure on the numbers or anything like that.
[01:55:49]  The two people that were arrested were apparent leaders of this Freeman group, I guess.
[01:55:56]  But you know, some of the rumors that they have spread.
[01:55:58]  For instance, one guy mentioned that Sheriff Maxwell here in Billings hogtied these guys and threw them down on cold cell floors.
[01:56:08]  And wrong.
[01:56:10]  No way.
[01:56:10]  That's not going to happen.
[01:56:12]  Not with the type of media coverage that's going on.
[01:56:15]  And if anything, especially the sheriff in Musselshall County, he played it very cool.
[01:56:20]  He said, look, I'm just going to leave them alone, which is what he did.
[01:56:23]  And I'm not going to mess with them.
[01:56:24]  And when they're ready to come down and surrender, they'll go ahead and do it because I'm not going to look for a confrontation.
[01:56:29]  So it's not like the authorities here are out there looking for a confrontation at all.
[01:56:34]  All right.
[01:56:34]  I appreciate your call, sir, in Montana.
[01:56:38]  Thank you very much.
[01:56:39]  I think he sounds like a reasonable man, and that's all to his credit.
[01:56:45]  I want to point something out to you.
[01:56:47]  All right.
[01:56:47]  And that is, now for the second night in a row, I've been taking calls from people in Montana, right up there in the Billings area, right in the very area where all of this is occurring.
[01:56:59]  And not one of them, not one so far, has said, gee, these free men are really good guys.
[01:57:07]  The government's moved in on them.
[01:57:09]  It's going to be another Waco or it's going to be another Ruby Ridge to the person.
[01:57:13]  They have all said, thank God the FBI is here.
[01:57:17]  We've been terrorized up here.
[01:57:19]  And these are people in the area.
[01:57:21]  Now, I don't know how we get any closer or more accurate idea of what really is going on up there than doing what I'm doing.
[01:57:33]  I'm not in a position you don't.
[01:57:35]  And you're doing a public service to be doing what you're doing.
[01:57:38]  In that you've got the lines open.
[01:57:40]  That's good.
[01:57:41]  What I noticed was we're not hearing from any officials.
[01:57:43]  We're not hearing from anybody, I believe, as much as I've heard.
[01:57:46]  I've only heard a couple hours, who says, I saw this.
[01:57:50]  This happened.
[01:57:52]  You know?
[01:57:53]  That's partial.
[01:57:53]  That's one thing.
[01:57:54]  But, you know, you are, of course, you're doing a great public service in many ways, and keeping these lines open and encouraging people from the area to call in is very valuable.
[01:58:02]  And I'm not in any way, I hope certainly the other caller was not intending that I thought that we wanted another Ruby Ridge here.
[01:58:10]  But let me ask you, how many people in the press were saying good things about Ruby Ridge or Waco at the time?
[01:58:18]  Afterwards, our hindsight is terrific.
[01:58:20]  All right, fair enough.
[01:58:21]  Thank you.
[01:58:22]  I've got to go.
[01:58:23]  You're right about that.
[01:58:25]  The press coverage was absolutely biased with regard to Waco, and I noted it constantly at the time.
[01:58:32]  Ditto on Ruby Ridge, I did talk radio, sir, through both of those things.
[01:58:38]  And what I've been trying to press home is that my assessment of this situation, based on what I've read, what I can gather, and most of all, talking to people from the area, and this is the second night now we've done this on purpose, is that this is no Ruby Ridge.
[01:58:56]  This is no Waco.
[01:58:59]  And I sort of agree with the caller from Montana that there are a lot of people out there, including in these fax networks, and that's why I read that fax, who are almost aching for this to be one.

=== Red Beckman's Montana Update (15:29) ===

[01:59:12]  Or if that's the wrong word to use, then they are acting as though this is the same as Ruby Ridge or Waco.
[01:59:21]  And they're preparing for a confrontation as it was that.
[01:59:27]  And that ought not be.
[01:59:28]  Because, folks, it's not the same thing.
[01:59:31]  And so I will continue to hold my line open for people in Montana so the rest of the country might know the truth.
[01:59:39]  Now, it's true I'm not talking to Switzerland.
[01:59:42]  That would not be necessarily an objective point of view either.
[01:59:46]  I think the best thing we can do is have open lines, just the way we have right now, and hear from the people who are there.
[01:59:58]  Does that make sense?
[01:59:59]  Not from people necessarily in the Fremen movement, although that is interesting, and not necessarily hearing from people involved with the Patriot Facts Networks or the rest of it that are all set to go, Johnny on the gun, but the people who are in the community and what they have to say.
[02:00:17]  I think that's very, very important.
[02:00:20]  If you recall interviews prior to Waco, the people said there was not a problem.
[02:00:25]  The people, including the sheriff down there, said we can handle this.
[02:00:30]  We don't need the feds.
[02:00:31]  That's not the story we're getting now.
[02:00:34]  So I implore you, please listen carefully.
[02:00:57]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:00:58]  Hello.
[02:00:59]  Hi, Art.
[02:00:59]  This is Brink in Billings, Montana, 9.10 a.m.
[02:01:03]  Excellent.
[02:01:03]  Welcome, Frank, and I want to thank 9.10 a.m. for giving us this window into what's going on there.
[02:01:11]  I went to some of the Red Beckman gatherings before they went and tore down Red Beckman's house.
[02:01:18]  Yes.
[02:01:18]  Red Beckman is a person that had fighting them on taxes for 18 years.
[02:01:25]  He had his case in court.
[02:01:27]  Yes, I'm familiar with Red Beckman and his case, but I don't believe he was a member of the Freeman.
[02:01:34]  I think that the Freeman, some of them also went to the Red Beckman gathering.
[02:01:40]  That will be not associating Red with the Valentine's Committee.
[02:01:43]  understand i'm sure there would be a little droid red back and i'm sure there would have been not interest cross interest yes where he had not paid the taxes and he had proof that the taxes were not due to him on his property because they're illegal taxes.
[02:02:01]  Now the freemen have went and tried to balance checks.
[02:02:06]  That's illegal.
[02:02:08]  Somebody has got to be, if I go to a bar and ask for a beer, they want a dollar for the beer.
[02:02:15]  If I don't give them a dollar, I'm in trouble.
[02:02:17]  Or if you take a service or a product and you write a check for it and it's a rubber check, you have stolen.
[02:02:24]  Yes.
[02:02:26]  Theft is theft.
[02:02:27]  Theft is theft.
[02:02:28]  Exactly right.
[02:02:29]  So they're liable for charges for theft.
[02:02:32]  That would seem to be the case.
[02:02:35]  I mean, they're charged.
[02:02:36]  Whether or not they're convicted, we'll wait and see.
[02:02:38]  But those are the charges.
[02:02:40]  You can't go around writing rubber checks.
[02:02:42]  And people seem to have proof that those are they have the documents saying that they wrote the checks and everything.
[02:02:49]  Another thing that you should not do is call for trying and hanging officials.
[02:02:57]  Well, that's under treason is what they're trying to say that.
[02:03:02]  Now, when our people were running for sheriff, they came on this same radio station here in town and got their time on the error.
[02:03:13]  Sure.
[02:03:14]  I asked the two people running for sheriff what their oath of office was.
[02:03:18]  And they refused to answer that it was to uphold the Constitution and defend it from all enemies for domestic.
[02:03:25]  All right, look, I'm going to have to break it off there.
[02:03:28]  Thank you very much for the call.
[02:03:30]  And we'll be back with more from Montana and the nation.
[02:03:35]  You're listening to wide open, unscreened live talk radio from the high desert.
[02:03:41]  I'm Art Bell.
[02:03:42]  This is Premier Networks.
[02:03:44]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[02:04:21]  Tonight's featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 28, 1996.
[02:04:26]  Got another good facts from Montana here.
[02:04:27]  I'll read you in a moment.
[02:04:29]  Good morning, everybody.
[02:04:31]  It's good to be here.
[02:04:32]  It is a kind of a wild night, second one in a row, mostly talking about what's going on in Montana.
[02:04:39]  Back to it in just a moment.
[02:05:03]  This is Nick in Billings, Montana.
[02:05:06]  I'm a native Montanan.
[02:05:09]  I come from a ranching background, and I'm a gun owner.
[02:05:13]  I grew up in eastern Montana, about 100 miles from where all this is going on.
[02:05:17]  Montanans are very independent.
[02:05:20]  We prize this trait in ourselves and others.
[02:05:25]  I don't care if someone wants to belong to a militia.
[02:05:28]  I don't care if someone wants to call himself a free man.
[02:05:32]  America is a free country.
[02:05:34]  They can believe whatever makes them happy.
[02:05:36]  However, when their freedom begins to threaten my freedom or my neighbors, I begin to care.
[02:05:46]  This little group of freemen have been threatening local officials and private citizens for over a year.
[02:05:54]  They've issued their own arrest warrants for dozens of people.
[02:05:58]  On film, he emphasizes that, bold type, on film, their leader has stated they're authorized to shoot anyone who resists them.
[02:06:09]  About a month ago, they tried to buy over a million dollars worth of weapons and ammunition.
[02:06:16]  Only reason they didn't get the arms is they tried to pay for it with their make-believe money.
[02:06:21]  The gun dealer preferred to be paid in real money.
[02:06:25]  Your listener in Los Angeles can believe in conspiracies if he wants, but I don't want heavily armed people in my backyard who believe that they have the right to shoot anyone who disagrees with them.
[02:06:40]  This is what it's all about.
[02:06:42]  Sincerely, Nick in Billings, Montana.
[02:06:46]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:06:48]  Hello.
[02:06:49]  Yeah, this is Bob from Helena, Montana, the capital.
[02:06:51]  I work with constitutional law and natives of the state and everything.
[02:06:55]  And I think you're using a good common approach on this.
[02:06:58]  I think you should emphasize, too, last night that Washington state militia leader said that they're not following what the militia believes in even.
[02:07:08]  And here's another little sign on that.
[02:07:10]  Last fall, the local police and sheriff brought in the head of the Montana militia from western Montana to advise them what to do with these freemen.
[02:07:19]  He went into the freemen's area, and they absolutely do not believe in the law, as you know, state and federal.
[02:07:26]  So he came out and advised the law enforcement people to cut off electricity and to get them out that way.
[02:07:33]  And they were so upset in the Freemen that they put a warrant out on him like they did everyone else.
[02:07:37]  That's what I heard.
[02:07:38]  Yeah, so that's kind of an interesting twist, too.
[02:07:41]  But, you know, this sort of hysteria has been in northern Idaho mainly.
[02:07:46]  And the group that really watches this is the Southern Poverty Law Center out of Atlanta, Georgia, on all these hate groups in the United States.
[02:07:54]  But this is a very small number.
[02:07:55]  The main thing I'd like to say is that this doesn't represent, you know, any significant portion of Montana's thinking on the state.
[02:08:02]  No, it does not.
[02:08:03]  And what, though, is dangerous about it is that America's kind of on a hair trigger right now because of what has happened in the past.
[02:08:12]  And a lot of people around the country, not in Montana, mind you, but around the country, are seeing this as just one more Waco, one more Ruby Ridge, and they're not listening.
[02:08:24]  They've just got anti-government fever.
[02:08:26]  And no matter what anybody says, I had Chuck on here a little while ago.
[02:08:30]  He's been following and preaching about Waco now ever since, with some good cause.
[02:08:37]  Even he doesn't believe what he's hearing.
[02:08:40]  He's saying, well, these people in Montana are just part of the greater American press that's making these people in devils so that they can pull in the tanks, you know.
[02:08:53]  Okay, but I think you can lessen the tension on this and have everyone on both sides not leap to judgment on this thing until we can see what can be done over there.
[02:09:02]  And it shouldn't trigger all these insecurities over these other areas and these other emotional issues and things like that.
[02:09:08]  However, the Montana legislature last time, which I will say is both houses are controlled by Republicans, they passed a bill to the Senate, to the governor, that every federal agent that comes into Montana must register with the county officers before they can investigate anyone.
[02:09:27]  Right.
[02:09:27]  And the governor vetoed that.
[02:09:29]  But, you know, that's a sort of mentality that encouraged these people, I think, to go on this anti-government thing.
[02:09:36]  And I think real hate radio has facilitated a lot of this ferment, too, which is unfortunate.
[02:09:42]  And we've got to cleanse our system out of that.
[02:09:44]  I think the government isn't the enemy in this country, and it's really sad to see that occur.
[02:09:49]  I agree.
[02:09:51]  You're doing a good job on that thing, and I think half the people in Montana want to get on your program tonight.
[02:09:55]  So we appreciate it.
[02:09:56]  And you come out here in the summer and have a nice vacation.
[02:09:58]  This is a great state out here.
[02:10:00]  It really is.
[02:10:00]  Thank you very much, my friend.
[02:10:02]  And we have more movie stars than Freeman, so don't worry about this, okay?
[02:10:05]  Thank you.
[02:10:06]  By the way, I saw a movie yesterday.
[02:10:09]  I'm going to stop right in the middle of all this.
[02:10:11]  And I'm going to recommend a movie to you.
[02:10:13]  And I don't recommend many.
[02:10:15]  I've recommended perhaps three or four in the years I've done radio.
[02:10:19]  And yesterday I saw one that set me back.
[02:10:23]  It was the most dramatic, incredible presentation of any movie of the genre I've ever seen.
[02:10:32]  It was called Seven.
[02:10:36]  Just what I needed yesterday morning.
[02:10:38]  I happened to have it.
[02:10:39]  I had heard, I think, on the recommendation of one of you in the audience that it was a good movie.
[02:10:43]  And it just appeared in the rental market.
[02:10:46]  So on the recommendation of somebody in the audience here a few days ago, I rented Seven.
[02:10:54]  And I was blown away.
[02:10:56]  Absolutely, positively blown away.
[02:10:59]  As far as I'm concerned, the acting in that movie, and I'm not going to give away what it was about, except to say it was about a serial killer.
[02:11:08]  Now, there have been many movies done about serial killers, and you probably roll your eyes and say, oh, God, not another one of those.
[02:11:14]  Well, it's not another one of those.
[02:11:17]  Seven was unique, different, intellectual, challenging, frightening, and kept you on the edge of your seat every second you watched it.
[02:11:28]  It's one of the best movies I've seen in years.
[02:11:31]  Do yourself a favor.
[02:11:34]  Go to your video store and rent Seven.
[02:11:37]  It's a movie called Seven.
[02:11:40]  Let me know what you think.
[02:11:43]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:11:45]  Hi.
[02:11:45]  Yes, all right.
[02:11:46]  This is Mike from Clarksville.
[02:11:48]  Hi, Mike.
[02:11:49]  My family has a ranch just down the road from where the Freemen are.
[02:11:54]  Yes, sir.
[02:11:55]  And that place there, all these people keep referring to it as a compound and such.
[02:12:01]  Right.
[02:12:01]  And it is nothing of the sort.
[02:12:03]  It's a regular ordinary ranch house.
[02:12:05]  Right.
[02:12:06]  I've seen it.
[02:12:07]  We all have.
[02:12:07]  And, you know, the use of these words by the media, compound, militia, they're not a militia.
[02:12:15]  No, I know.
[02:12:17]  I know them.
[02:12:18]  However, having said that, you heard the letter I just read, didn't you?
[02:12:24]  No, I never.
[02:12:24]  I was listening to you on the way home, and the stereo at home doesn't pick it up.
[02:12:29]  I see.
[02:12:30]  One thing that I was kind of curious about, CBS said there's no charges being filed, or I guess it was ABC, I'm wrong.
[02:12:39]  It was ABC on Nightline this evening, last evening.
[02:12:42]  Yes.
[02:12:43]  And they said that there was no warrants for anybody inside.
[02:12:48]  So I'm kind of curious, why are the FBI even there?
[02:12:52]  Well, I'm not sure of the status on warrants for people who are inside right now.
[02:13:02]  I know there have been two, some people say three arrested.
[02:13:06]  I've lately heard only two.
[02:13:08]  Schweitzer and Peterson.
[02:13:11]  Yes.
[02:13:12]  So I don't know the status, the legal status of those who remain inside.
[02:13:19]  I can't tell you.
[02:13:20]  All I can tell you is that, as a matter of fact, that's a very, very good question, and I will pursue that, and we'll find somebody who can tell us that, all right?
[02:13:30]  All right.
[02:13:31]  All right, then.
[02:13:32]  Oh, one more thing.
[02:13:33]  Yes.
[02:13:33]  I was kind of wondering if why didn't the sheriff just go about it the way?
[02:13:40]  They were about to, sir.
[02:13:42]  They should have been.
[02:13:43]  Well, they were about to.
[02:13:44]  As a matter of fact, the sheriff, of course, is only the sheriff and I guess the deputy, and they weren't about to go up there by themselves, not against that many men.
[02:13:53]  So they had deputized or were about to deputize a whole bunch of farmers in order to take care of this situation themselves, and thankfully the FBI showed up and prevented that.
[02:14:07]  Well, I don't know about, thankfully, but see, I know, well, I spoke to my grandparents last night, and they kind of told me the situation.
[02:14:17]  Yeah.
[02:14:19]  And they said it's pretty much a big, just another same type of deal as Waco, but not agreeing with the tactics that the Freemen are using on their little, I don't know, bullying other people and such.

=== Another Waco? (06:26) ===

[02:14:35]  Yes.
[02:14:35]  Not agreeing with that.
[02:14:37]  Well, on film, their leader has stated they are authorized to shoot anyone who resists them.
[02:14:44]  They tried to buy a million dollars worth of weapons and ammo with a bad check.
[02:14:48]  Yes, I don't agree with that neither.
[02:14:52]  As far as bad checks go, that's wrong.
[02:14:55]  Uh-huh.
[02:14:56]  All right.
[02:14:56]  Well, thank you very much for the call.
[02:14:59]  It is interesting to me, again, and I'll say this again, that most of the calls that tend toward wanting to support the Freeman, one way or the other, like this caller, said, well, it looks to me like another Waco.
[02:15:14]  These calls come from elsewhere.
[02:15:19]  The calls that come from Montana are not in support of them at all.
[02:15:24]  They're in support of the FBI being there.
[02:15:26]  Now, why do you suppose that would be?
[02:15:28]  Well, I've got an answer.
[02:15:30]  It's because there is a lot of anti-government sentiment out there, more than you can imagine.
[02:15:37]  And it's frustrated.
[02:15:39]  And with regard to this particular incident, I believe it is misinformed.
[02:15:45]  And it's just coming forth as it usually does.
[02:15:48]  Whoosh!
[02:15:50]  The government's doing this.
[02:15:51]  They're automatically wrong.
[02:15:53]  They're automatically baby killers.
[02:15:56]  There's going to be another slaughter.
[02:15:57]  It's the government doing another slaughter just like they did at Waco.
[02:16:02]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:16:04]  Hello.
[02:16:05]  Hi, Aaron.
[02:16:05]  How are you?
[02:16:07]  Where are you calling from, sir?
[02:16:08]  Los Angeles.
[02:16:09]  Okay, we're holding this open for Montana, but I appreciate your call.
[02:16:12]  Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
[02:16:15]  Charlie, liberal in California.
[02:16:17]  Hello.
[02:16:19]  Yeah, first of all, let me just say that I agree with your points on these individuals in Montana.
[02:16:26]  I think what's really unfortunate is that, and what a lot of people don't understand, is that the actions that these people are taking are not hurting the federal government.
[02:16:38]  They are hurting these people's neighbors.
[02:16:41]  That's right.
[02:16:41]  And they don't understand that.
[02:16:43]  They don't understand that.
[02:16:44]  As a matter of fact, to the degree that the neighbors had gone out and purchased guns themselves in self-defense.
[02:16:51]  They were going to have to be part of an official posse that was going to have to go and do the job themselves with the sheriff.
[02:16:57]  Exactly.
[02:16:57]  And I think the thing of it is, is that, you know, instead of these people calling themselves the free men or whatever they call themselves, they should call themselves the free loaders, which is exactly what they are.
[02:17:08]  And it's really unfortunate that these people do not understand that the government, the government could care less about them.
[02:17:17]  Well, it seems like a lot of people seem to think it's okay to write bad checks as long as it's on the government.
[02:17:23]  Now, if they personally received a bad check, they'd be screeching like a wounded owl.
[02:17:30]  Well, exactly.
[02:17:31]  And they picture the government as this big non-feeling type of whatever thing.
[02:17:37]  But they don't understand that their actions are hurting people.
[02:17:41]  They are making life terrible on people.
[02:17:43]  And those people are not the people in Washington, D.C. They're the people of Montana.
[02:17:50]  That's the thing that these individuals don't understand.
[02:17:53]  Although maybe they understand that and they just don't care about it.
[02:17:56]  Maybe they're so selfish that they care about only themselves.
[02:17:59]  Well, maybe they're so conditioned by some wrong things that the government has done, Charles.
[02:18:05]  And we could get into a whole discussion on Waco, which I don't really want to, that they're simply being reactive.
[02:18:12]  And I'm trying my best to give them real information from people in Montana.
[02:18:20]  Well, you know, the thing about it, the government, the government makes terrible decisions.
[02:18:24]  The government's run by human beings, and human beings make stupid decisions a hell of a lot.
[02:18:30]  But I don't think that human beings necessarily are all evil, whether they're in the government or anyplace else.
[02:18:38]  That's correct.
[02:18:39]  I don't think you can say that the government itself is evil.
[02:18:42]  I don't think the United States government is evil.
[02:18:44]  I don't say that.
[02:18:45]  I think there are some individuals who are just stupid, who make dumb decisions, but they're everywhere.
[02:18:50]  So I don't think you should place every people who place everything on the government and say the government is all evil.
[02:18:56]  I think they're terribly wrong on that.
[02:18:58]  Let me say, lastly, on this guy who talks about space-faring civilizations, let me say that I happen to believe, I happen to believe as you do, and I take it from this concept, though.
[02:19:13]  Every single civilization will face the same type of tragedy no matter where they are, and that is that eventually their star is going to die.
[02:19:23]  It's going to start to expand.
[02:19:25]  The oceans are going to start to evaporate, and they are going to be faced with one decision: either to leave their planet, leave their star system, or become extinct.
[02:19:36]  And eventually, our descendants are going to have, who won't look anything like us, but they'll still be our descendants, will have that same choice to make.
[02:19:43]  So every single advanced technological society that survived long enough to the end of its star has to develop interstellar space travel.
[02:19:55]  I don't disagree.
[02:19:55]  So I believe that they're out there.
[02:19:57]  The only problem is, though, is that these civilizations are looking for some place to inhabit, to stay.
[02:20:06]  So by that nature, which would mean that they would be rather aggressive.
[02:20:11]  And I think that that is something that's entirely possible.
[02:20:15]  It kills me to agree with Charlie, or to have Charlie agree with me.
[02:20:20]  He is, of course, correct.
[02:20:21]  Every star has a life.
[02:20:24]  Talking about the one that burns up there.
[02:20:27]  And eventually it will burn out.
[02:20:30]  Eventually, the ongoing nuclear fission process will be exhausted.

=== Two-Way Vidian Update (07:14) ===

[02:20:38]  And one of several things will happen.
[02:20:41]  Whatever that is, it will require that we not be here at the time.
[02:20:45]  And this will occur in other places as well.
[02:20:49]  And again, I do happen to agree with the Brookings Institution report.
[02:20:54]  If you get a chance, read it.
[02:20:55]  It's up on my webpage.
[02:20:57]  I think I'm going to do something for myself here for a moment.
[02:21:01]  I am going to put up the commercial two-way version of Vidian.
[02:21:06]  So if any of you out there happen to already have installed, and I know there are a number, the two-way version of Vidian, call now, and not only will you see me, but if it's operating properly, I will see you.
[02:21:22]  So for the next, oh, I don't know, 30 minutes, if you've got just the demo version, do not call.
[02:21:29]  It will not connect.
[02:21:32]  If you've got the full two-way version and have your camera hooked up, then call my Vidian number, the same one I've been using for the demo, and I've got the full two-way version on right now, and I would be able to see you as well.
[02:21:44]  That would be really cool.
[02:21:46]  All of you have been able to look at me for so long, and I've been unable to look back.
[02:21:51]  I would love a chance to be able to look back.
[02:21:54]  So, if you've got the commercial version set up, give me a call and we'll do a two-way here.
[02:21:58]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:22:00]  Hi, hello, hello, Art, yes, sir.
[02:22:06]  We're on the air, we better be.
[02:22:08]  I'm sorry, my radio is down, and I'm calling from Montana.
[02:22:13]  Yes, sir.
[02:22:13]  Where are you in Montana?
[02:22:15]  Missoula.
[02:22:16]  Excellent.
[02:22:16]  My name is Bill.
[02:22:18]  Okay.
[02:22:19]  And I can't say I'm a big fan of the feds, but I think everybody is glad to have them here.
[02:22:26]  That's what I keep hearing time after time after time after time from people in Montana.
[02:22:31]  If you chip the local papers, and I don't know you have access to the local papers, but if you chip the local papers, we're glad to have them here.
[02:22:39]  And like I say, it's a peculiar thing to say because you don't want the feds here, but it's the lesser of evils.
[02:22:50]  Well, all right, I guess that's a fair way to put it: the lesser of evils.
[02:22:57]  Well, that's maybe a little cryptic, a little on the edge there, but you'd like to think you can solve your problems without dragging the peds into it.
[02:23:08]  So it's a last resort.
[02:23:10]  Yes, it is.
[02:23:11]  Is this the opinion that you find when you talk to other people there in Missoula?
[02:23:15]  Absolutely.
[02:23:16]  Is it generally the opinion reflected on talk radio at other hours of the day?
[02:23:21]  Yes.
[02:23:22]  Yes, sir.
[02:23:23]  It is.
[02:23:23]  I want the country to hear this.
[02:23:25]  I really, really think it's so important because, you know, what I'm hearing is that, you know, it's another Waco, it's another Ruby Ridge.
[02:23:35]  No, but I will tell you this.
[02:23:37]  I've been here for a year and a half, and I moved out of the Midwest where the Patriots and the Constitutionalists were very strong.
[02:23:49]  And I rubbed elbows with a lot of them.
[02:23:53]  And because I don't think of myself as an anarchist.
[02:23:56]  All right, sir.
[02:23:57]  Look, I'm going to have to leave you at this point.
[02:23:59]  We're at the bottom of the hour.
[02:24:00]  Thank you for the call and the info.
[02:24:01]  We'll be right back.
[02:24:03]  This is Premier Networks.
[02:24:04]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[02:24:10]  Take you back.
[02:24:43]  Gee, what a treat.
[02:24:45]  I've got somebody on my Midian for a change.
[02:24:47]  I'm looking at them.
[02:24:48]  It's Bill.
[02:24:49]  Hi, Bill.
[02:24:50]  You bet I see you.
[02:24:52]  Bill has Bill's obviously a ham radio operator.
[02:24:55]  I can see his ham set in the background.
[02:24:58]  I can see what looks like Tahiti behind him.
[02:25:03]  It's a beautiful photograph he's got behind him.
[02:25:05]  I don't know how he's done that.
[02:25:06]  I'd like to figure that out myself.
[02:25:08]  That's what I need behind me.
[02:25:10]  Sort of a Tahitian background.
[02:25:12]  It looks like the ocean crashing in behind his ham rig there.
[02:25:16]  And Bill's giving me a big smile.
[02:25:20]  God, this is fun.
[02:25:22]  And if I had my audio on, which I don't, I can't really put it on right now.
[02:25:26]  I'm going to wire it eventually into the board.
[02:25:28]  I'd let Bill talk to you.
[02:25:30]  Bill and I are in a teleconference right now.
[02:25:33]  How totally cool.
[02:25:35]  I wonder where Bill is from.
[02:25:37]  Bill, hit your chat, or I'll put the chat up for you.
[02:25:40]  Let me do that.
[02:25:41]  And you can tell me where you are.
[02:25:43]  But I'm sitting here looking at Bill with a big broad grin on his face and his ham rig behind him.
[02:25:48]  And this is the first time that I've had a two-way Vidian.
[02:25:52]  Just type on your keyboard, Bill, where you're calling from.
[02:25:58]  You move that chat box if you want out of the way and type where you're calling from.
[02:26:02]  He says, okay.
[02:26:04]  And I wonder what city.
[02:26:05]  It's hard to know where Bill could be from anywhere, I suppose.
[02:26:09]  This is absolutely amazing.
[02:26:11]  What a beautiful, beautiful picture I'm getting.
[02:26:13]  It is.
[02:26:14]  Let me tell you how good this picture is, okay?
[02:26:18]  I can see the meter on his ham rig in the background.
[02:26:21]  And if I look carefully enough, I think I might be able to read it.
[02:26:24]  That's how good it is.
[02:26:26]  I can see the books.
[02:26:27]  He's got some books stacked over behind his ham rig.
[02:26:30]  I'll tell you, Bill, it's a beautiful, beautiful picture.
[02:26:34]  Let's see.
[02:26:35]  West Covina.
[02:26:36]  Okay.
[02:26:36]  Bill's in West Covina.
[02:26:38]  And he's got the full two-way version of Vidian.
[02:26:41]  It's the first time I've ever put it up, and this is a real treat.
[02:26:44]  You can't know how exciting this is.
[02:26:45]  I mean, you guys have been watching me now for two months.
[02:26:48]  The first time I've had a chance to look back at one of you.
[02:26:52]  He's a good-looking guy, too.
[02:26:54]  Hey, Bill.
[02:26:57]  Sheesh.
[02:26:58]  What a total treat.
[02:27:00]  All right.
[02:27:01]  I've got some information for you.
[02:27:03]  Art, according to Kogo, a 5.3 earthquake has occurred in Ecuador at Quito.
[02:27:09]  17 are dead.
[02:27:12]  This is from Derek in San Diego.
[02:27:14]  Thank you very much.
[02:27:17]  Now, a little review.
[02:27:19]  I'm so tickled at being able to see somebody else on video.
[02:27:22]  Ah, what a kick.
[02:27:25]  I'll leave it up for the, well, maybe I'll leave it up for a couple of hours, even after I'm off the air, for those of you that have the full commercial two-way version of fitting.

=== Remarkable Remarkably Poor (06:41) ===

[02:27:37]  God, this is a kick.
[02:27:38]  If you want the commercial two-way version, I'm going to be going completely to the two-way version, I would guess, oh, in about three more weeks.
[02:27:48]  And I just thought I'd throw it up tonight for the fun of it and see if I could draw somebody in who had the two-way version.
[02:27:56]  Sure enough, I did.
[02:27:57]  What a kick.
[02:27:58]  Sheesh.
[02:28:00]  Mr. Bell, what's the problem here?
[02:28:03]  Do you have rocks in your head or what?
[02:28:04]  My wife and I have seen the movie 7.
[02:28:08]  Have seen, I would say, movie 7, and we both agreed it was a total piece of crap.
[02:28:12]  What a waste of time and film, not to mention the money we spent on a Saturday night date.
[02:28:17]  It's films like that which make our communities and youth into the animals they turn out to be.
[02:28:23]  In nearly all cases, we agree with you.
[02:28:25]  Don't have a clue to what possibly you could have seen in that piece of trash.
[02:28:30]  There are plenty of good, decent movies to advertise.
[02:28:33]  Pick a movie with taste to talk about and encourage people to see.
[02:28:36]  Use your head.
[02:28:37]  Think.
[02:28:38]  David in Eagle Point, Oregon.
[02:28:41]  And I will say this, and I'll say it again.
[02:28:46]  Seven is one of the best movies I've ever seen in my whole life.
[02:28:51]  All right?
[02:28:53]  Let me be very, very clear about that.
[02:28:55]  It's one of the best movies I've seen in my whole life.
[02:28:57]  So I disagree with you, my friend.
[02:28:59]  But I will issue a warning, which Dan in Eugene, Oregon also says.
[02:29:05]  Art, the movie 7 makes Silence of the Lambs look like the Wizard of Oz.
[02:29:09]  You'd better warn your listeners, the film is very disturbing and not for all tastes.
[02:29:14]  It affected me like no other film since the original Night of the Living Dead did when I was very young.
[02:29:20]  Well, I wouldn't compare it in any way to Night of the Living Dead.
[02:29:24]  However, I guess I am not as affected by, you know, I don't want to go into I don't want to ruin the movie for anybody.
[02:29:38]  So I don't want to go into the plot and to discuss the nature of the violence in it, and there certainly is violence.
[02:29:45]  It's about a serial killer.
[02:29:47]  But it's not like any other movie you've ever seen, I guarantee, about a serial killer.
[02:29:53]  The focus, I just can't do it without giving away the plot, and I don't want to do that.
[02:30:00]  But the acting was Class A triple plus.
[02:30:04]  I guess it depends on how you look at it.
[02:30:06]  Or this.
[02:30:07]  Art, I just heard you raving, as well you should, about the film Seven.
[02:30:12]  I happen to have an extra copy of the original script, if you would like a copy.
[02:30:16]  Would I like a copy?
[02:30:18]  Would I like a copy?
[02:30:22]  I'd find a way to frame it or something.
[02:30:24]  I'm listening to the show now, so if you say yes, you want it, yes, I want it, and give me the post office box to ship it to, I'll be glad to get it out to you tomorrow.
[02:30:33]  Sure.
[02:30:34]  My address is post office box 4755.
[02:30:41]  4755.
[02:30:42]  In fact, I'll give you the whole address after I finish reading your facts.
[02:30:46]  I'm a writer here in Hollywood, and I do all of my writing at night while the mundanes sleep.
[02:30:53]  There are many times I thank the gods for your intellect and programming, keep the juices flowing, so to speak.
[02:30:58]  Another video I think you'd enjoy is The Prophecy.
[02:31:01]  I happen to have a post-production copy of the original film when it was titled God's Army.
[02:31:08]  Christopher Walken plays the Archangel Gabriel.
[02:31:12]  But I guarantee you, it's like you would never have dreamed of in a hundred lifetimes.
[02:31:16]  It'll keep you going almost as well as Seven.
[02:31:19]  Take care, I'll be listening.
[02:31:20]  Oh, yes.
[02:31:21]  Are you kidding?
[02:31:22]  These are both down my alley.
[02:31:24]  To have a copy of the script of Seven, I would be honored.
[02:31:27]  Seven was a remarkable, remarkable piece of work that I do not in any way consider to have been a display, as obviously of Faxer in Oregon did, a gratuitous display of violence.
[02:31:44]  It wasn't that.
[02:31:45]  Not in my opinion.
[02:31:47]  Maybe it was in the mood you're in when you saw it or something, but I have never been held as much on the edge of my seat as I was with Seven.
[02:31:58]  God, it was remarkable.
[02:31:59]  Just remarkable.
[02:32:20]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:32:22]  Hello.
[02:32:22]  Hi, Arrow.
[02:32:22]  How are you doing?
[02:32:23]  Fine.
[02:32:24]  Good.
[02:32:24]  I just got home, and I heard that you were talking about the movie Seven.
[02:32:28]  Yeah.
[02:32:30]  I know the writer of that movie pretty well, Andy Walker.
[02:32:33]  Really?
[02:32:33]  Yeah, I played cards with him a couple times, and believe it or not, he is one of the funniest, wittiest guys that you can imagine.
[02:32:42]  Well, you'd have to be a great intellect to write that.
[02:32:45]  You know, it was astounding, I thought.
[02:32:48]  Now, I do give that warning, and I'm sure you would agree with me, it's not going to be to everybody's taste.
[02:32:55]  Oh, definitely.
[02:32:56]  It's more of a, you know, people kind of walk out of it and they don't quite know what to think.
[02:33:01]  It's almost a movie they have to watch twice, but it basically is just a psychological thriller.
[02:33:06]  Yeah.
[02:33:07]  And the gore is almost unbearable.
[02:33:11]  It's unbearable, but it almost plays second fiddle to what's going on in the minds of killer.
[02:33:15]  It absolutely does.
[02:33:17]  And the ending is.
[02:33:20]  I'm just going to say the ending really surprised me.
[02:33:22]  Yes, well, that's fine.
[02:33:23]  You can say that.
[02:33:25]  We were sitting around one night and we're asking Andy, well, how's seven going?
[02:33:29]  He goes, oh, it's on there, Brad Pitt and Maureen Freeman and blah, blah, and it's going real well, and the whole production is going great.
[02:33:37]  And he goes, we're just filming the ending today, and even the actors were just freaked out by the whole thing.
[02:33:44]  Sure.
[02:33:45]  The way it ended like that.
[02:33:46]  I can believe it.
[02:33:47]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:33:48]  So I just want to let you know he's really a funny guy.
[02:33:51]  Well, I thought it was a tremendous movie, and if you know him, tell him I said it was absolutely astounding.
[02:33:56]  I'll let him know that.
[02:33:57]  Thank you.

=== Unbelievable Dreamland Scenes (11:22) ===

[02:33:58]  I am rarely, rarely blown away by movies.
[02:34:03]  I mean, just flat blown away.
[02:34:05]  This movie was so intense.
[02:34:08]  I'm not kidding you, folks.
[02:34:09]  I had to stop it about three times and just take a rest.
[02:34:14]  I literally had to stop the movie and take a rest.
[02:34:17]  You know, it was so intense that I just really couldn't go on with it.
[02:34:21]  So I would stop it, take a little rest, and come back to it.
[02:34:25]  And I've seen it all, believe me.
[02:34:27]  I collect movies.
[02:34:29]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[02:34:31]  Hi.
[02:34:32]  How are you doing?
[02:34:33]  Okay.
[02:34:33]  This is Rio from California.
[02:34:36]  Yes, sir.
[02:34:38]  You know, on your program, you had, what was that, Sunday, was it early Sunday morning or Monday, early Monday morning?
[02:34:47]  The guy that mentioned that about dark-skinned people or brown-skinned people being their originators, original raced on the Earth.
[02:34:57]  Yes.
[02:34:59]  I have something that might support that.
[02:35:02]  Okay.
[02:35:04]  Let me see.
[02:35:04]  In 87, 89, a Newsweek article called, excuse me, I'm a little nervous here.
[02:35:17]  In Search of Eve.
[02:35:18]  Have you seen that?
[02:35:19]  Not yet.
[02:35:21]  Sounds interesting.
[02:35:22]  It was a cover story.
[02:35:24]  Anyway, scientists from Berkeley University, and they had put in italicists white scientists from Berkeley University were doing studies on genes.
[02:35:36]  And they took genes from all the known living races of man.
[02:35:41]  Yes.
[02:35:42]  And they said they come to no other conclusion that Eve had to be black because the black gene was present in every other gene.
[02:35:54]  And no other gene had that characteristic.
[02:35:57]  No other race had that characteristic.
[02:35:59]  What got to me was the suggestion that whites have come from other planets and are a descendant of the Nordics and actually are aliens.
[02:36:12]  Yeah, that sounds a little bit far-fetched for me.
[02:36:17]  I don't know what to think about that.
[02:36:19]  But when he mentioned the part about brown-skinned people being the original race of planet Earth, that made me right there right away.
[02:36:31]  That brought back the article.
[02:36:33]  It was a cover story, too.
[02:36:34]  Name of it was In Search of Eve.
[02:36:36]  It was Newsweek.
[02:36:38]  I'm going to have to get it and read it.
[02:36:39]  I can do that.
[02:36:40]  I'll simply grab it online.
[02:36:42]  I thank you for the call, my friend.
[02:36:44]  You take care, and I'll follow up on that and read the article.
[02:36:48]  And I said this the other night.
[02:36:50]  What was that on Dreamland?
[02:36:52]  I think it was on Dreamland.
[02:36:53]  The suggestion that the white people are descendant, or about two-thirds of them, I believe it was, are descendant of the Nordics, meaning not Nordic as we think of it, but Nordic, as in aliens, from another planet.
[02:37:07]  And that the actual inhabitants of Earth are brown and black-skinned.
[02:37:12]  To which I thought about that for a few moments, and I thought, gee, I'm an alien.
[02:37:17]  Married to an Earth chick.
[02:37:19]  Got to remember my wife is part Oriental, part Puerto Rican, part Hawaiian, part Chinese.
[02:37:26]  So she has to be an Earth chick, right?
[02:37:29]  So I'm an alien married to an Earth chick.
[02:37:35]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:37:37]  Hello.
[02:37:38]  Art.
[02:37:38]  Yes.
[02:37:39]  Have you released the West of the Rockies line?
[02:37:41]  Yes.
[02:37:42]  Okay, this is Mitch, the Magic Christian, calling you from beautiful Ventura by the Sea.
[02:37:46]  Okay.
[02:37:46]  In beautiful coastal Southern California.
[02:37:49]  Uh-huh.
[02:37:49]  Yeah, the information that you had with Richard this evening was intriguing.
[02:37:53]  It's really a bonus, I think, that he's enlisted the alliance of Sarah McClinton.
[02:37:59]  I think that'll be a big plus in the future.
[02:38:02]  I quite agree.
[02:38:03]  And I also thought the additional evidence that he's come upon is very important.
[02:38:08]  You might imagine a photographic anomaly, or even a group of them.
[02:38:13]  But when you take the same frame and document the same thing from a different geographic location, that is not a photographic anomaly.
[02:38:23]  Exactly.
[02:38:24]  Have you seen that piece of film that has been spoken about?
[02:38:27]  No.
[02:38:28]  Boy, that sounds like, I mean, you had a caller a couple of days ago that called you about that.
[02:38:32]  I think he flew back and was at the press conference.
[02:38:35]  Yes.
[02:38:35]  And then he said that he was a friend of Richards and had seen, I think, privately that film, and he said it was mind-blowing.
[02:38:41]  I know.
[02:38:41]  I want to see it.
[02:38:42]  Well, I'll tell you what.
[02:38:43]  It's going to be a slow joggernaut in the press, it seems, because it seems like they're resistant.
[02:38:48]  Of course.
[02:38:49]  Of course.
[02:38:49]  But it doesn't seem like they're going to be able to stop this slowly building juggernaut from eventually rolling over them.
[02:38:57]  I quite agree.
[02:38:59]  Well, I just thought I'd check in, Art, and tell you to keep up the good work.
[02:39:02]  Okay, thank you.
[02:39:03]  And that interview, the one-hour interview with Mr. Hoagland is coming up just past the top of this hour in the first hour repeat.
[02:39:12]  So that really is one you don't want to miss.
[02:39:15]  We talked about the photographs, and some people have said, oh, gee, they're fuzzy or pixely, and I can't make this out or that out.
[02:39:22]  So I made Richard take the time to explain exactly what you're seeing and exactly what to look for.
[02:39:28]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:39:30]  Unbelievable.
[02:39:32]  Let me kill it.
[02:39:33]  Unbelievable.
[02:39:34]  I got through on a straight phone.
[02:39:37]  Well, good.
[02:39:37]  It's unbelievable, but you can do it.
[02:39:39]  Yes, you can.
[02:39:40]  Where are you?
[02:39:41]  I am in Leavenworth, Kansas, Art.
[02:39:42]  All right.
[02:39:43]  How are you tonight?
[02:39:44]  I'm fine.
[02:39:45]  I think the framemen are crooks.
[02:39:47]  Well, that is yet to be officially determined, I guess.
[02:39:50]  They are charged.
[02:39:51]  Oh, that's what I think they are.
[02:39:53]  And by the way, to answer a question for an earlier caller, there are two, apparently, two men still inside that have warrants for their arrest.
[02:40:04]  And there were three men arrested originally.
[02:40:07]  The third, well, I don't need to name him.
[02:40:10]  But there are two men still in there that have warrants out.
[02:40:14]  Can I ask you another question?
[02:40:16]  Yeah.
[02:40:17]  You're a ham radio operator, correct?
[02:40:19]  Correct, yes.
[02:40:20]  Okay, I bought a national radio.
[02:40:23]  Have you ever heard of national?
[02:40:24]  Oh, yes.
[02:40:25]  Are they any good?
[02:40:27]  A receiver or a transceiver?
[02:40:29]  I bought a receiver.
[02:40:30]  It's a great big radio.
[02:40:31]  It's got an antenna tuner on it.
[02:40:33]  It goes from way down below, I think all the way up to 40 megahertz.
[02:40:40]  All right.
[02:40:42]  Do you have?
[02:40:42]  It says it was made in 1947.
[02:40:44]  47, really?
[02:40:46]  Yeah, and I got it for $100.
[02:40:48]  Well, I used to own a couple of national transceivers, you know, transmitter and receiver.
[02:40:52]  Yes.
[02:40:53]  Uh-huh.
[02:40:53]  Well, this one's got the top.
[02:40:54]  You open up and it's got nine tubes inside.
[02:40:57]  Nine tubes.
[02:40:58]  And it's really a nice, nice little radio.
[02:41:00]  That's what I'm listening to you on.
[02:41:02]  Well, excellent.
[02:41:03]  It's a good radio.
[02:41:07]  It was the NCX series.
[02:41:09]  Yes.
[02:41:10]  Is that what yours is?
[02:41:11]  Yeah, it's that series, but I don't think the guy realized what he had.
[02:41:16]  And, you know, for $100, I had to buy it.
[02:41:20]  You know, it worked.
[02:41:20]  I plugged it in, and it's really got a good tone to it.
[02:41:23]  It's got you can put earphones on it and everything.
[02:41:27]  It's really a nice radio.
[02:41:28]  Well, you bring back memories to me, my friend.
[02:41:30]  Well, I love old radios, and that's what I do.
[02:41:33]  I collect old radios, and that's just something.
[02:41:36]  But I hear you always talk about it.
[02:41:37]  I'm going to have to talk to you sometime.
[02:41:39]  Of course, I can't give my callers over the air, but sometime I will catch you on what do you run usually?
[02:41:47]  You have 3522 or somewhere in that area?
[02:41:50]  You'll find me up around 3885.
[02:41:52]  3885.
[02:41:53]  How often do you get on?
[02:41:55]  Well, how does about 10 minutes from now sound?
[02:41:58]  That would sound good, but I'm wondering if I can hear you from Leavenworth.
[02:42:02]  Oh, that's right.
[02:42:03]  That's right.
[02:42:04]  Leavenworth, huh?
[02:42:05]  Yeah, I'm in Leavenworth Canada.
[02:42:06]  Well, it depends on what condition the band is in, but that's a pretty long haul.
[02:42:09]  What do you think about Bob Doe?
[02:42:11]  You think he's going to make it?
[02:42:18]  I'd give it not quite even money right now.
[02:42:21]  I'll tell you what, I think Bill will beat him in a debate.
[02:42:24]  Yeah.
[02:42:25]  The guy can't win.
[02:42:26]  It's impossible.
[02:42:29]  I'm afraid of that.
[02:42:30]  He's so dry, his humor is just not there.
[02:42:33]  No, that's not true.
[02:42:35]  That's not quite true.
[02:42:36]  No, he just seems that he's so dry, to me, he doesn't seem like he's got the spunk that Bill Clinton's got.
[02:42:41]  Well, maybe he'll rise to the occasion.
[02:42:43]  Listen, I've got to run.
[02:42:45]  You bring back memories.
[02:42:47]  Yeah, I'll jump on 3885 here.
[02:42:50]  You give me about five or ten minutes after the show, and I'll come up on frequency.
[02:42:54]  I have no idea what kind of condition the band is in, but that brought back memories.
[02:42:58]  An NCX3, I think, is what I had.
[02:43:01]  That's a long time ago.
[02:43:03]  I was KR-6BK on the island of Okinawa.
[02:43:07]  I was considered to be rare DXN, and I had an NCX-3 that I operated on the island, and talked back stateside all the time with that thing.
[02:43:16]  Great little radios.
[02:43:18]  It's all ham radio talk.
[02:43:20]  I'll jump on there, 3885 after the show.
[02:43:24]  But you've got to give me a few minutes to get prepared.
[02:43:27]  All right, let me see.
[02:43:28]  Where am I going?
[02:43:29]  Let's do it again.
[02:43:30]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:43:32]  Good morning.
[02:43:33]  Good morning.
[02:43:33]  This is Andrew.
[02:43:34]  Listen to KSD.
[02:43:36]  In St. Louis, yes, sir.
[02:43:37]  Hi.
[02:43:38]  Yes, I appreciate you trying to keep, I feel keep cool heads with this incident happening in Montana.
[02:43:47]  I just want to prevent misinformation, that's all.
[02:43:50]  And boy, there's a lot of it out there right now.
[02:43:53]  Okay.
[02:43:54]  And I'm thinking that as far as the release of the photographs and all that by Richard Hoagland, I think they're going to fight that tooth and nail.
[02:44:06]  Because I think if the reality comes out that there is life out there, it'll do more than I think they're going to lose their grip on power.
[02:44:15]  I think the way that things are set up, they haven't put it to their equation or their computer.
[02:44:21]  But if we find out that they've been lying to us for all this time, you know, I think we're going to lose faith in them.
[02:44:27]  Well, I'm not so sure that that would cause a collapse because we found out, for example, they fed radiation to children, pregnant women in some cases.
[02:44:37]  That's a big lie.
[02:44:38]  It went on for a long time, right?
[02:44:40]  Right.
[02:44:41]  So I'm not sure that would cause a collapse, but to find out that either there have been previous civilizations prior to ours or that there is an intelligence out there that has come to visit and or desires to have the real estate that we presently occupy, then you've got a problem.
[02:45:01]  I think they wanted to be in charge of all they could be in charge of and then be represented as when contact is made.
[02:45:09]  They think it's going to happen soon, or like an ambassador's going to be said, or something's going to happen soon.
[02:45:14]  Soon, I agree.
[02:45:15]  Sir, I've got to run.
[02:45:16]  Thank you very, very much for the call.
[02:45:18]  I just realized I'm backed up on things here terribly.