Whatever Podcast - EARTHQUAKE?! Feminist RAGE QUIT! Hex Witch?! Andrew Wilson vs. Super Feminists!

Aug. 7, 2024 - Whatever Podcast

07:59:30

EARTHQUAKE?! Feminist RAGE QUIT! Hex Witch?! Andrew Wilson vs. Super Feminists! | Dating Talk #185

Dating Talk is LIVE on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/whatever
[Read More]

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Welcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast, where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape.
	I'm your host, Brian Atlas.
	Thanks for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
	I appreciate that.
	We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California, every Sunday and Tuesday at 5 p.m. Pacific.
	A few quick announcements.
	This podcast is viewer-supported, heavy YouTube demonetization, so please consider donating through Streamlabs, which we have pulled up here instead of super chatting, as YouTube takes a brutal 30% cut.
	So if you super chat 100, YouTube takes 30.
	If you donate 100, Streamlabs only takes three.
	Streamlabs.com slash whatever.
	Link is in the description.
	We do prioritize messages that are made via Streamlabs.
	If you want to interact nearly instantly with us and weigh in on the conversation, consider sending a TTS text-to-speech message for the first, actually no, so we're just doing $200 an up triggers.
	TTS.
	TTS is via Streamlabs only.
	If your chat or TTS is too toxic, we reserve the right to skip it.
	Please see the description for all other triggers and full details.
	We have channel memberships.
	To become a member, hit the join button.
	Tier one is just $5 a month.
	We're also live on Twitch right now.
	Guys, pull up another tab.
	Go to twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow in the Prime sub if you have one.
	If you have Amazon Prime, you can link it to your Twitch.
	It's a quick, free, easy way to support the show every single month.
	Guys, it's been since yesterday since we last had a Prime.
	Must be bugged if somebody...
	Evil, thank you for fixing the bug.
	Thank you for clearing it out.
	Appreciate it.
	Jay, thank you for also clearing out the Prime bug.
	I don't know what's going on.
	Appreciate it, man.
	We got merch, shop.whatever.com.
	I'm wearing our whatever hoodie.
	If you like it, get your cell phone.
	Follow us on Instagram at whatever.
	Any girls who want to be on the show, DM out whatever on Instagram if you can make it to Santa Barbara.
	Also, if you live in Santa Barbara, only if you live in Santa Barbara.
	We're looking to add to the whatever team.
	If you live in SB and are interested, DM at whatever right here on Instagram.
	Follow me on Instagram, BD underscore Atlas.
	Check out my nonprofit movement, Big Labia Matter, or BLM for short.
	Really the pressing issue of our time.
	If you can't catch the full shows, we have Eclipse channel.
	Link for that's in the description.
	We have a private Patreon members only Discord, discord.gg slash whatever.
	Link for that's in the description.
	And our most, we're posting in this behind the scenes section.
	We got a lot of backlog that we're going to be uploading.
	But the most recent one, me and Andrew did a show with Craig Cray Desiree.
	And let's just say she, I don't know if it was an assault, an attack, I don't know what it was.
	There was a flashing moment.
	Me and Andrew are scarred.
	If you want to see us cope with the trauma, you can find it on discord.gg slash whatever behind the scenes section.
	Also, if you want to learn how to become a master debater, jokes aside, if you want to learn how to think, debate, and craft arguments like Andrew Wilson and like occasionally me, if you want to be able to debate like Andrew Wilson, you need to get his course, Verbal Combat, about six hours, about six hours of instruction, 80 plus different educational and instructional videos.
	You can find it at debateuniversity.com.
	There's also a members-only group, monthly live Q ⁇ As, which is separate from the Verbal Combat Program.
	Be sure to check that out, guys.
	DebateUniversity.com.
	Disclaimer, the views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever channel.
	With that said, without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves.
	So please tell us your name, age, location, and occupation.
	Hi, I'm Val.
	I'm 23.
	I'm a witch, and I live in Santa Barbara.
	Do you go to school at all?
	No.
	Okay.
	And you're what kind of witch are you?
	Well, I just want to.
	Are you a blood witch, a dark witch?
	What kind of witch?
	So I kind of specialize in like baneful magic, love magic.
	Baneful magic.
	Hexes.
	Hexes.
	Yeah, stuff like that.
	Justice workings.
	Tarot.
	Tarots.
	Psychic stuff.
	And you're also an astrologist and a psychic.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Psychic.
	Mostly just psychic.
	Okay.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So like when you say psychic, what does that mean?
	Like, have you seen those tarot cards videos?
	Yeah, I'm familiar with tarot cards.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I can like whip out cards and I can just tell you about your future.
	I don't know.
	People come to me.
	A lot of people want to know if they can get back together with their ex.
	So that's pretty much what I am doing right now.
	But yeah.
	Kind of just do a lot of different things.
	But like any other kind of psychic?
	Yeah, I do medium ship.
	Noise going to be a little bit more.
	I'm not sure what.
	Okay.
	So.
	Are you a psychic without the cards?
	Yeah, a little bit.
	I can.
	Can you predict the future?
	I don't.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So like when it comes to predicting something, every action you take in your life can rapidly change the life path you're going on.
	So when you're pulling on someone's life path, it's based on what is already coming into effect.
	For example, if, okay, let me think of a PG example.
	If I am like, okay, are me and my boyfriend going to get married?
	And then I decide to break up with him the next day, that's obviously going to change the path.
	So there's a sign.
	It's not a exact science, but, um, and is, is this something that's passed down from generation to generation?
	Like in your, no, I actually grew up in a, I grew up in a Christian household.
	Yeah.
	What denomination?
	It was a whole tea.
	It was like, yes, so there's like 12 members and they believed that if you weren't a member of their church that you were gonna get to make it to the afterlife.
	And I'd have to study the Bible for like six hours every day after school.
	It was like a really, really intense small church.
	But I think they're considered Lutheran.
	Lutheran?
	Yeah.
	And prior to coming on the show, did you cast a hex on me, Andrew, or the podcast?
	No.
	I don't even know you guys' names.
	I'm going to be real.
	I don't really know a lot about you guys.
	Do you need the name to cast a hex?
	Yeah, or like a photo.
	Can you only cast hex on people or can you cast it on like a company?
	I could cast on a company.
	Yeah.
	I guess I could have if I really wanted to.
	And like how effective are the hexes slash spells?
	I can give an example.
	The first ever hex I did was on this guy who I have like a really traumatic past with.
	And I work with the number three.
	So I wanted to send back three times the pain that he caused me.
	He fell off a three-story building, shattered three parts of his spine at three in the morning.
	About six months after I cast it.
	And was that three days after you cast it?
	No, it was six months.
	Yeah, yeah.
	That would have been cool if it was three days.
	I would have really sold the deal.
	But I mean, what evidence do you have that that's because you hexed him?
	Yeah, I guess I don't really have concrete proof or evidence, but the numbers with three.
	It just seems like a weird coincidence.
	I also do offer it as a service.
	So my clients have overwhelmingly positive reviews.
	So I don't know.
	Maybe it's a placebo, but I would say my clients disagree.
	And it's an overwhelming as a service.
	I offer hexes, love spells, tarot readings, money, magic.
	I'm really good at money magic.
	That's something that I'm really, really good at.
	So like law of attraction, money magic.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Word.
	Did you go to school to learn the witchcraft?
	No.
	I went to school for like graphic design for a year during COVID, and then I just dropped out because I didn't like online school.
	I have ADHD.
	I can't do it.
	Do you consider yourself like, you know how there's like journeymen, leather workers?
	Yeah.
	Do you like how advanced are you in the witching business?
	I've been practicing for about four years professionally.
	I do have like a mentor.
	She has practiced witchcraft for about 20 years.
	So she taught me a lot of stuff.
	I have taken like courses and then I just did a lot of like free workings for people until I felt confident enough to offer it as a service.
	Right.
	And but is there like did you learn any of it from TikTok or a little bit, TikTok, books, just I'm a very intuitive witch, so I pull from my intuition a lot.
	And so is there such thing as a like, what's the male version of a witch?
	A wizard?
	A warlock.
	No, so witch is like a gender neutral term, so anyone can call themselves a witch.
	You can be a witch?
	Yeah.
	I usually refer to him as warlock.
	Yeah, I'm actually like.
	Is a counter, what's a counter witch?
	Is that a wizard?
	I don't know.
	I don't think that is.
	I think this is getting like Dungeons and Dragons terminology.
	I mean, hold on.
	Me and Andrew are wizards.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	That's sick.
	So we actually, we would have detected had you tried to pre-cast a hex.
	Right, right.
	So I hexed you and then you had it.
	We knew you were coming, so we cast defensive spells.
	Yeah.
	We did the plus 10 glyph of defense.
	Plus 10 glyph of like defense and like magic resistance.
	Yeah, it's called warding, but you can call it that.
	Yeah, well, we did like a consecration spell, like, because we kind of like fuck with like paladin shit and stuff.
	Okay.
	Like, are you familiar with like paladin stuff?
	No.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, like paladins.
	What is a paladin?
	How do you not know what a paladin is?
	I've never heard of that.
	They use holy magic.
	Yeah, we use holy magic.
	Oh, okay.
	Cool.
	It's video games.
	So well met.
	Yeah, that's what I assumed.
	I'm like, I don't really know any of these things.
	No, no, it's not video games.
	It really were paladins.
	Yeah, for sure.
	Is it like DD?
	Can I ask you what your big three are?
	Because I dabble in tarot and stuff.
	Yeah, so, okay, that's kind of interesting.
	So technically, I was born as an Aquarius, but I don't like my birthday, so I changed my birthday.
	I figure, like, you know, you can change so many things about you, so I've changed my birthday.
	But I'm an Aquarius son.
	I'm an Aries Rising, and I'm a Pisces moon.
	But I guess technically with my new birthday, I would be a Leo son.
	Oh, so you identify with a different birthday?
	Yeah, I don't like my birthday.
	I just don't like it.
	It's a winter birthday.
	What?
	It's really not my thing.
	Oh, if you're an Aquarius, yeah, it's a winter birthday.
	It's so hard to do.
	I hate having.
	I was born in Colorado.
	But isn't that the age of Aquarius?
	Something like that.
	Sadly, wouldn't you want to be an Aquarius?
	Is this the age of Aquarius?
	I like being Aquarius.
	I just don't like my birthday.
	I feel like everything bad always happens to me on my birthday.
	Like, something bad always happens on my birthday.
	So I was like, nah, I'm just going to actually celebrate my half birthday.
	So I just celebrate my half birthday now.
	And I just told everyone, aha, today's my birthday.
	And then, yeah.
	Well, today's my birthday.
	Today might be your birthday.
	It is now.
	I just changed it.
	Sick.
	Awesome.
	Happy birthday.
	How old are you?
	Thank you.
	Well, I'm the same age I was yesterday.
	Oh, okay.
	But still, it's my birthday.
	Okay, cool.
	So when it comes to the witch stuff, I mean, is there like a go-to book?
	Like, are there books on this show?
	Cunningham is like a really good author for it.
	So I pretty much, just like encyclopedias of herb.
	You also can Google a lot of stuff, honestly.
	It's like the hot take.
	Can you buy it on Amazon?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You can get a lot of books on Amazon.
	Being a witch?
	Yeah.
	A to Z Library has like a lot of free downloads.
	So that's.
	My tarot cards on Timu, so I'm just curious, like, but I feel like a lot of witches would be like wokey SJW, like libtards or whatever.
	So they are.
	Yeah.
	Like, but like, I mean, do you think there's witches on Donald Trump's side?
	Because like he won the 2016 election, so they're probably like witches like helping him out.
	There was a witch day where they cast a universal binding spell.
	You didn't know that?
	On Trump?
	On Trump.
	Yeah, but Leich Day, how do you get universal binding spells?
	If it's so effective, you have to be able to counter that shit.
	Well, I'm going to tell you, there is one, there's like, there's one counter spell that you can always do that works.
	You can say, this is all bullshit.
	And that usually will counter all of it, just like that.
	This is all bullshit.
	Well, it's a fact that there's astrologists in the White House in the government.
	They work there.
	Yeah, there are people.
	You also have to understand as well, witchcraft is very tied into a lot of people of color's culture.
	So, like, very, very tied.
	There's a lot of different practices.
	More so religion is going to be wrapped into black.
	Wait, so just to be clear, are you saying Barack Obama won because of witches?
	No.
	I'm just saying there is a lot of even Supreme Court members.
	There are people who do practice, but they're very, very private about their practice.
	And there's a lot of different witchcraft and spirituality is just an umbrella.
	What court members do you think practice witchcraft?
	Just a few.
	I'm not going to name them out.
	There's a quote by J.P. Morgan.
	Do you think Sodomior?
	Do you think Sodomaur practices witchcraft?
	That's for sure.
	There's literally a quote by JP Morgan.
	He says, Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do.
	So if they're private about it, how do you know that they JP Morgan wasn't?
	Sounds like a completely fake quote, by the way.
	Well, I mean, you could check it, but.
	Yeah, sounds like a totally fake quote that J.P. Morgan would say that.
	Just based off of, and like he said, maybe none of it is real, but based off of my findings and my research and picking up on energy work, because that's pretty much what witchcraft is.
	It's just a manipulation of energy.
	It's just science that has not been proven yet as well, too.
	But basically, how I see it is there are some members, there are some people that are very high up that do have very specific spiritual practices in order to protect themselves.
	Moving on.
	Lastly, your pronouns are what?
	I don't really care.
	But I guess she, her, they, them.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, you have it in your Instagram profile.
	So what's a they, them, witch warlock called?
	Hold on, hold on, hold on.
	Okay, go ahead.
	Hi, my name is Morgan.
	My pronouns are she, her.
	I am 31.
	I'm from Chicago, and I'm a flight attendant.
	All right.
	Cool.
	Oh, how long have you been doing that?
	10 years.
	So from 21 to 31?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	I'm Vanessa.
	I'm 26, and I'm a content creator.
	What kind of content do you make?
	Adult.
	Like OnlyFans or?
	I'm porn.
	Okay.
	And you do, let me just look at my notes here.
	BGGG, BBG, solo, GGB.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	How many scenes have you shot?
	Like around 20.
	20?
	Okay.
	Started in November.
	All right.
	What were you doing before that?
	I was a mail lady.
	A mail lady?
	For USPS?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Did you go to school or anything?
	I did.
	For politics.
	You got your bachelor's?
	Oh, yeah.
	I got my bachelor's in political science.
	Political science?
	Okay, cool.
	What about you?
	My name's Chelsea.
	I'm 37.
	I am a business owner and am actually being hired on as a CEO.
	All right.
	Where are you from?
	Phoenix, Arizona.
	What kind of business?
	So it's non-medical home here.
	Grid one Motorsports has just tipped $200.01.
	Thank you, man.
	Evening, Brain.
	Can the witch predict which of the panel will rage quick tonight?
	Will it be her?
	She EAE it.
	I feel like she is more like a Tamu witch.
	Let's buckle in, shall we?
	Gonna get good.
	She.
	The sheep, the cheeu witch, it's definitely gonna be me.
	Yeah, grid one.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you for that.
	Looks like I made you a custom.
	By the way, I made you a little custom thing on a piece.
	Oh.
	Archduke Glocktavius, though, donated $200.
	Brian, here is a tip for all the BS you deal with.
	Appreciate all you do and the hard work.
	Never argue with stupid people.
	They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
	That is profound, Glocktavius III.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, you know, look, it's a lot of work putting on the show.
	Show days are like 16-hour workdays for me.
	So appreciate it.
	Thank you for the support, man.
	And thank you, everybody else who supports, including Grid One.
	Thank you.
	Was he asking predictions on?
	Yeah, I think I've got a good idea.
	Thank you, Gridwan.
	So I think, were you asking her a question?
	Yeah, I was just asking what kind of business do you have?
	Non-medical home care.
	Oh, okay.
	Cool.
	Yeah.
	What about you?
	Hi, my name's Riley Risa.
	I'm 22 and I'm from Florida, and I'm a recording artist with Hutchdown Records.
	All right, welcome, Riley.
	What kind of genre of music do you do?
	So what I have out right now is all pop, but I kind of switched over to like country pop leaning.
	Can we hear a couple bars?
	Sure.
	Okay, I guess I'll sing.
	This song isn't out yet, but about the worst highway in Florida, which is I-4.
	So okay.
	If it's your way or the highway, well, I guess I'll take I4.
	You're the captain of the ship, I'm jumping over.
	Before I leave, I'll make sure to slam the door.
	Coming soon.
	All right, cool.
	There you go.
	Nice.
	All right.
	What about you?
	I'm Lindsay.
	I'm from Colorado.
	I'm 40 years old and I am a salon owner.
	All right.
	Welcome.
	What about you?
	My name is Kayla.
	I'm also 40 and I am a restaurant manager.
	Where are you from?
	Baltimore.
	Baltimore, ma'am.
	Yeah, okay.
	Could I have you just tilt your mic down a little bit, just like that?
	What about you?
	Hey, friends, I'm Chrissy Clark.
	I'm the host of Underreported Stories.
	It's five stories.
	If you turned into CNN, MSNBC, or Fox, you would not hear about.
	I'm a Turning Point USA contributor, 27, and I live in Nashville.
	All right.
	What about you?
	Hi, my name's Peyton.
	I'm 27.
	I live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I'm currently a marketing manager for a small family-owned winery, and I'm writing my first book.
	What's it about?
	It's a romance novel, historical romance, mostly for fun and pleasure.
	Really?
	What era?
	Regency.
	Because I got mad about the Bridgerton thing.
	Gotcha.
	Okay.
	Andrew.
	Yeah, my name is Andrew Wilson.
	I'm the host of The Crucible.
	It is, to my knowledge, the fastest-growing debate channel on YouTube.
	I'm a political analyst, satirist, and I do like to do debates occasionally for fun.
	All right, welcome, everybody.
	So we're going to go around the table once more.
	What is everybody's current relationship status?
	So are you single?
	Talking stage, situationship, friends with benefits, relationship, married, polycule, sex, cold harem, whatever it may be.
	If you're single, how long have you been single?
	And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in, starting with you?
	I have a man and I'm looking for a girlfriend because we're polyamorous.
	Okay, so how long have you been in this relationship?
	We've been seeing each other since about November.
	Are you looking for a Timu witch?
	I don't know what a T-Mu witch is.
	Okay.
	Maybe an Etsy witch.
	Longest relationship?
	Thank you, JJ.
	Probably on and off six years.
	On and off six years?
	Yeah, when I was younger.
	And then which one of you wanted to open the relationship up, or did both of you?
	Both?
	Well, when he met me, I was dating a girl.
	So, and then she didn't really have a problem with it.
	He didn't really have a problem with it.
	Me and her ended up splitting off.
	And you're only looking for a girl?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I have enough.
	I'm a man.
	One's good enough for me.
	Your six-year relationship, you said it was on again, off again?
	How many times was it on and off?
	Oh my gosh.
	Okay, we were like either enemies or lovers and no in between.
	It was the most toxic shit I've ever been in my entire life.
	We probably would talk to each other for about one to two weeks and then something bad would happen and then we would go back to being enemies and blocked and then we'd go again and again and again.
	It was really toxic.
	I was young.
	I was a teenager.
	How many times was it on again off again?
	10, 20, 30.
	Probably like 30.
	Who was ending it?
	More often than not.
	Probably him.
	So like 90%, 80%, 70%?
	Probably 80%.
	80% he would end it, 20% you would end it.
	Who would like be the one kind of reaching back out to rekindle?
	Him.
	Always him.
	80%, 90%?
	100%.
	100%.
	So he'd end it 80% of the time.
	He'd always want to come back to you.
	He was on and off for about, you said about 30 times.
	Yeah.
	Was this the one that you cast a hex on?
	Yeah.
	That broke his back?
	Yeah.
	Shout out.
	Do you cast love spells to bring him back to you?
	No, I wasn't, I didn't practice witchcraft when I was in a relationship with him.
	I found spirituality afterwards.
	Yeah.
	And so is he, when you say he broke his back, is he like in a wheelchair or what's the severity of his injury?
	I have no idea.
	I just saw the post, like a GoFundMe posted by one of his friends.
	And then one of them reached out to me and told me and they asked me, they're like, did you, was this him?
	Like, did you hex him?
	And I was like, I'm not going to say anything.
	You realize how catastrophic a back injury is?
	Yeah.
	He.
	I mean, it's kind of interesting that you're smiling.
	Yeah.
	You seem a bit happy that somebody's going through a substantial life fallout.
	I can't really talk about it because the word is going to trigger you guys, but he essayed me multiple times and abused me multiple times.
	It was a very toxic relationship.
	So I don't feel bad if an abuser gets what's coming to them.
	That's actually what I stand for.
	I get justice for victims of SA disease.
	Would he agree?
	Would he say, would he say that he did that to you?
	I don't think most essayers would agree to that.
	I think most of them would deny it.
	I don't really know of any that proudly talk about it.
	Well, I think usually, you know, this is just me, but if you were SA'd, the way that you're talking about, especially, I'm guessing no police reports, nothing like that, right?
	No, I was 16.
	I didn't know any better.
	So, well, there's statute limitations, right?
	Like, you can still go later and do that, can't you?
	I don't really have proof.
	That's the situation that's really unfortunate is most victims do not get justice.
	I would say an overwhelming amount of victims, even when they do go through the court system, because I have gone through the court system for a similar incidence that's happened to me, they don't do anything.
	They really do not get any justice when you actually went.
	No.
	And it actually was more traumatizing going through the entire event.
	I would say even more than BNSA.
	Being someone who's been through it, I have to disagree with that.
	Well, I guess he broke his back.
	Everybody's experience is different.
	You can't speak for one person.
	No, I'm just disagreeing.
	Yeah, that's okay.
	Okay.
	You didn't feel like when you had to go to the hospital and went through that whole kit situation, that wasn't.
	No, I'm just disagreeing with the court process, with how it is.
	The court's not always about getting justice.
	It's also about hearing your voice and speaking and saying what happened to you and confronting your abuser.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And sometimes you may not get that result that you want, but it's about speaking your voice.
	So, okay, anyways, so you dated this man for six years.
	How early into your relationship was there this abuse?
	Pretty early on, I would say about two or three months into it.
	Was there an age gap?
	I think he was two years older.
	Yeah.
	So.
	I'm a little confused here.
	You said the abuse started very early on into the relationship, but you were with him for six years.
	That's a very, very common occurrence for most abuse victims.
	They stay with their abusive partner for a very long time due to trauma bonding.
	It actually becomes a severe addiction.
	If you look into trauma bonding and the science research behind it, what it basically does to your brain is you release an insane amount of dopamine with the love bombing phase.
	And then when they leave, you go through intense withdrawal.
	So when you leave an abusive person, you physically feel withdrawals.
	You physically withdraw from said person.
	Well, we don't know.
	Well, if you have an ADHD brain, too, you're like always chasing dopamine.
	One question, though, prior to the essay, had you guys had consensual sex?
	The first time we had sex, I was blackout drunk.
	Was he?
	No.
	Was he drunk at all?
	He had a little bit of alcohol, yeah.
	It was 420.
	I would have slept with him anyways, but him and his friends purposely got me belligerently drunk.
	He wanted to take advantage of me.
	It's about power.
	It's not about the sex.
	Wait, so and is that the essay that you're referring to?
	Yeah, I think there's about two other times in the relationship that essay occurred, but that was like the most traumatizing one, I would say.
	But you did have, at other points in the relationship, consensual sex with him.
	Like you were with him for six years, so I'm assuming many, many times you had consensual sex with him.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	And you said the first time, though, you were blackout drunk, but you would have had sex with him anyway.
	Regardless, yeah.
	He didn't have to do that to me.
	He chose to because it's about power and control.
	It's not about the sex.
	You said it was his friends that, was it his friend?
	We were all hanging out and they all encouraged me to drink.
	They were all a little bit older than me.
	I was very, very new.
	I was a teenager, so I didn't really know what I was doing.
	And yeah, I got blackout drunk.
	They all highly encouraged it.
	Two of them were in the other room when it happened.
	They knew about it.
	They didn't care.
	Because people just don't really care a lot of the time.
	Well, in this group of friends or whatever, were you guys like heavy partiers, heavy drinkers?
	Was it common to drink to this degree?
	Not to that degree, no.
	But they were drinkers, smokers.
	We were potheads.
	All right.
	Okay, so you're currently in a nine-month situationship.
	I would call it a situation, excuse me, relationship, but it's sort of poly insofar as you want to bring other women in.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	I'm dating.
	My last relationship was like two years ago.
	It was nine months.
	It was like my first actual relationship.
	And how long did it last?
	Nine months.
	Nine months.
	Your first relationship.
	So you've been you said you're dating now, so but are you consider yourself single?
	Sure, yeah.
	So you've been single for two years then?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	But you're dating.
	So are you currently romantically involved with anybody?
	Yeah.
	Multiple people?
	Sure.
	I'm not trying to be like whatever, but yeah.
	I mean.
	Yeah, how many people are you currently dating?
	That's pretty normal.
	People, when they're like a couple, like, and there's some that are like in and out.
	Like, you know, I feel like they always come back.
	So like there's some that I'm kind of not talking to.
	Yeah, so like there's some that like hook up with here and there.
	Yeah.
	Some.
	So like how many are you like talking to currently?
	Probably like two, three.
	Two or three.
	Okay.
	There's probably only one I'm really like sleeping with.
	Uh-huh.
	Yeah.
	And then what are the probably or there is?
	No, there is.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah.
	Well, and what about the other ones?
	Just, you know, texting.
	Have you like gone on dates?
	Yeah.
	You know, like bros in different area codes.
	Right, because you're a flight attendant.
	Yeah.
	So it'd be like someone I met and then, you know, like I won't see them for a while.
	Like I can, you know.
	But you hooked up with them.
	Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
	How many hoes and different area codes do you have?
	Like overall in my 10 years of being a flight attendant?
	Yeah.
	I don't keep track of that.
	Come on.
	We need the team.
	I mean, I can get.
	Do you want to name a city and I'll tell you yes or no?
	Just a range.
	I don't know a number.
	I really don't.
	Phoenix?
	Yes, I do.
	Tulsa?
	I could figure something out in Phoenix.
	Tulsa?
	Caltech?
	Not Tulsa, no.
	Not Tulsa.
	I could figure somebody out in Phoenix, I think.
	DC?
	No, I don't think so.
	Denver.
	O'Hare.
	I'm in Chicago.
	I live in Chicago.
	Denver, 12.
	Yeah, I could do O'Hare.
	Denver?
	Denver.
	I could figure out.
	Like JFK?
	JFK.
	Maybe.
	I can make something work out.
	More than 20.
	No.
	No.
	I mean, over 10 years.
	Oh, over 10 years.
	I mean, yeah, I guess around there, just, you know, I'm just living my life.
	And it's not like I don't date these people with intention.
	It just, I'll date them.
	And then if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out.
	But, you know, I'm not about to waste something if I'm in a city and I'm single.
	Like, I'll go see somebody and hang out with them.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	So the person that you are currently sleeping with, do the other two people that you're just kind of seeing, do they know about them?
	I'm not sleeping with them, so no.
	So they don't know about that?
	But you are dating them?
	I'm just like talking to them, texting to them.
	Talking to them.
	Yeah, like the one I met, he was...
	Do you think that it would change from their end how they would perceive the conversation with you if they knew that you were...
	How?
	How could it?
	I wouldn't think that would be fair.
	What do you mean?
	Like, so the one person, like, because I'm not exclusive with anybody.
	And we, like, kind of established that.
	So, I mean, there was one person that I went on a date with that was in Chicago and he was just visiting for a weekend.
	We went on a date and it was a really nice time.
	And then I thought it was going to be over and he wanted to continue to talk to me.
	Okay.
	So we were texting a little bit back and forth.
	I'm sorry.
	We were texting a little bit back and forth.
	And like, I'm kind of letting things sizzle out with that because I'm not sure if I like him.
	But then, you know, I have somebody that I'm kind of like hooking up, not kind of like, I'm hooking up within Chicago.
	And then there's.
	Is this pretty common with flight attendants, by the way?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	It's just, you know, it's kind of how the lifestyle is.
	How many flight attendants would you say practice kind of the same type of thing?
	Most of them?
	I think it depends on the situation.
	I once had a flight attendant that I flew with.
	She had just given birth six months ago and she wouldn't breastfeed because she wanted to drink.
	And she had a we were flying from San Francisco to Boston and she had a Craigslist ad out before we even took off a woman seeking man and there were like 300 pictures and she had a man set up before like we even took off and she hung out with him the whole layover but she had her baby dad at home taking care of the baby.
	She took some MILF.
	She sure is.
	RIP.
	She's no longer with us.
	With the airline?
	No, in the earth.
	Oh.
	Whoops.
	She was iconic.
	She really was.
	Iconic.
	In the best way.
	Six-month child.
	Yeah, we went outside and smoked menthol cigarettes in her little two-piece nightgown.
	It was amazing.
	So are you, do you do international flights or just domestic?
	I do international flights.
	So I'm just curious, what's the typical do the work weeks tend to be pretty similar or is there quite variety?
	So you might go to Hawaii, you'll stay there for this.
	I picked up a Santa Ana layover because it was the closest to Santa Barbara and then I rented a car and drove over here.
	So since I've been a flight attendant for 10 years, I get like kind of control over my schedule.
	10 years is still pretty junior at my airline just because it's like a legacy carrier.
	But they like I can you kind of just like you bid for a schedule every month and then you can trade and all kinds of stuff.
	So are you on like in like the pineapple lifestyle sort of?
	That's a like Hawaii?
	No.
	That's called the pineapple mafia.
	That's all the people oh pineapple like swingers.
	Yeah.
	No.
	I mean I don't I'm not opposed to anything.
	Like I live my life.
	Like you're not a unicorn out there.
	No, no, no, no.
	I don't even know what I'm doing tomorrow.
	That's just always how I've wanted to live my life and I really enjoy it.
	So what's the average work week hours-wise?
	So we don't get paid when we're on the ground.
	We only get paid like in flight hours.
	So I average about like 80 to 90 hours a month.
	But that doesn't include like time on the ground.
	It's really difficult to explain it.
	I could, but we'd be here for a while.
	A couple questions here related to this.
	So your home base is Chicago.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	How often are you in Chicago?
	Pretty often I like to do turns, so I go out and come back every night.
	This is the first like layover I've done in a long time.
	Okay, so you're back in Chicago every day, pretty much.
	Pretty much, yeah.
	Okay, I see.
	Okay.
	And then when it comes to the like the hose and different area codes, like will you knowing that you'll only be in the city for a couple hours or maybe just overnight or whatever, will you or like other flight attendants be on dating apps?
	I mean, I know you mentioned your girl.
	She was on Craigslist.
	Trying to set things up before even being there.
	Right.
	Is that pretty common with the female flight attendants?
	They're trying to set something up just for like a short-term thing while they're in a city.
	It was, it is like, you know, when you're younger, I think a lot of, you know, women do end up wanting like a marriage or, you know, some a steady partner.
	So yeah, let's say when they're starting their career.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's pretty normal.
	Like a lot of my classmates, like my flight attendant classmates, they were always on the dating apps.
	I lived in an apartment in San Francisco with 13 other flight attendants in like a two-bedroom apartment.
	It was like a everybody was on Tinder, everything.
	So I don't know if you've seen this.
	I mean, I know you've seen the show before a little bit, but I actually warned men not to date flight attendants.
	Yeah.
	No offense.
	No offense or anything, but it's a massive red flag precisely because you're constantly traveling.
	You're in a new city.
	Like multiple.
	I mean, there needs to be trust.
	Or you just don't date a flight attendant.
	Sure.
	I mean, the flight benefits are pretty nice, though.
	Yeah, if you don't, like, mind knowing that she's like slept with half the country.
	Do you know that?
	Not in half the country, literally, but in half the country.
	She slept in half the country.
	Well, I mean.
	Slept with dudes in half the country.
	I mean, that's not necessarily true.
	But isn't it hard to like, if you're gone a lot, wouldn't that contribute to making it difficult to develop a long-term monogamous relationship if you're gone all the time?
	Yeah, if all men have the mentality you do.
	Well, let's assume they don't.
	Isn't it the case that if you travel frequently for work, it makes it harder to have a long-term relationship?
	Not if you make it a priority.
	Like I'm home every night in Chicago now.
	Okay, but you've been doing this for 10 years.
	Was that the case even at the beginning?
	No, it was not the case in the beginning.
	Right, so for how many years was it not the kids?
	For a while.
	And some of that has to do with seniority, right?
	Right.
	But like, I mean, I knew that I wanted a job where potentially I could, you know, have a marriage and kids and be part-time, but also have a career.
	Because eventually, you know, I'm 31 now, so if I decide I want to get married and have kids, I can basically drop my schedule to nothing, but still have complete health care and like have all of that plus complete like free travel benefits for me and my family.
	So I mean, even if I've slept with half the country, that's a pretty sweet deal.
	For the husband?
	Yeah, don't you think?
	For you to work a part-time job?
	No, for me to not work at all, you get health care and you and your whole entire family travel for free.
	When you say don't work at all, what?
	I don't have to work if I don't want to.
	The only reason I work is because I have bills to pay.
	Like if the husband was the breadwinner.
	Wait, just one clarification.
	Yeah.
	You're saying at 31, for the rest of your life, you can just stop working and they will continue to pay your health insurance for the rest of your life.
	I mean, I would have to pay, like, I would have to pay whatever I pay for health insurance, like however many dollars a month.
	And like I'd work a trip or two just to like stay current and I'd have to go to recurrent training.
	But no, right now I don't have to.
	The only reason I go to work is to make money to pay my bills.
	I'm just a little confused about it's that flexible of a job.
	Well, I know airlines operate on shoestring budgets, right?
	So I'm finding it a little dubious that they would keep someone on free flights, that they would give them free flights.
	I mean, it's standby that you would get free flights and health insurance for your spouse, for you and your children, if you only did one flight a month.
	I just don't see the numbers.
	I could be wrong.
	I have no ideas about the airline.
	I mean, you pay for those things and you pay your dues.
	I've paid my dues.
	So you're in a union.
	Yes, sir.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Yes, sir, I am.
	Yeah.
	So that's the key.
	Yeah.
	If she's in a union, that's more than possible.
	Yes, I am in a union.
	And I love a pension.
	You just work one, you do one flight on your union contract, man.
	Well, I don't know the details.
	Do you have a union contract that can say anything you want it to say?
	A union and a pension and everything.
	It's pretty nice.
	So, okay, a couple questions here.
	So how many in the first year you worked, like how many different flights do you think you did?
	I could not even come close to telling you.
	Well, over 200, 300, 400?
	Not even an idea.
	But it's that crazy of a number.
	Right, but you must know above this.
	No, no.
	I was on reserve.
	They were called.
	Above 50?
	No, it wasn't below 500.
	Right, so above 100, 200.
	I don't, I, I, like, I'm not, I'm not going to be a jerk, but I really couldn't tell you.
	So for the average flight attendant in a given year, how many flights is she gonna do?
	I was literally just in a lawsuit where they were asking me the same question and I could not answer it.
	So I really cannot answer it.
	I don't know.
	It's because it's different because sometimes you take vacation, sometimes you're on a leave for whatever.
	It's different all the time.
	Okay.
	Well, how many different cities in the U.S. do you think you've been to?
	Probably most of them.
	Do you think you've been in every single state?
	No.
	Most states?
	Most of them, yes.
	Okay.
	I'm just trying to look.
	How many flights a year flight attendant?
	Yeah, see if you can find it.
	How many hours flight attendants can work?
	Oh, wait.
	65 to 85 flight hours per month.
	I'm not, there's nothing that's immediately coming up, but I mean, so you have to think about over the course of a career or even the first few years, if they're in a new city every night and they're on Tinder, I have to assume that they're like.
	It's fair to say thousands at least, right?
	Thousands of flights.
	Flights?
	Sure.
	But sometimes you're so they're not hooking up with people every night.
	Every time.
	No, of course not.
	But it happens.
	The opportunity is there.
	The opportunity is there, but it's not something that's like, I would say it's more not than often.
	But so, I mean, compared to a woman who...
	One times out of a hundred layovers.
	Well, right.
	But we're just looking at risk assessment.
	So if you look at risk assessment, you would agree with.
	Risk for what?
	Well, I'll explain.
	So if you had a husband who's a traveling salesman, his opportunity probably would drastically increase to step out without you knowing about it.
	Sure.
	Right?
	So if that is the case, if you present, if you're presented with opportunity over and over again, let's say, you know, you're on a diet against sweets, but your whole house is packed with sweets, right?
	Whenever you see the opportunity, right, it's much easier for you to grab something and eat it that you're not supposed to eat just because it's available.
	Same thing with like alcohol, right?
	If you have a house full of alcohol and you were somebody you didn't want to drink alcohol, your chances would necessarily increase that you would probably grab the alcohol at some point.
	So the thing is, it's just like with a traveling salesman, what Brian's saying, it's not saying that all flight attendants would do this any more than all traveling salesmen would, but just that the risk assessment would necessarily go up.
	I guess that doesn't make sense to me because my dad is a traveling salesman.
	Yeah, so your dad probably would never step out in a million years.
	No.
	But that really doesn't matter.
	It's just like saying there's tons of people who would have the self-control and the will not to eat the sweets or drink the booze or whatever, right?
	But just the fact that it's there opens up opportunity that normally would not be there.
	And so it increases the risk.
	And I've dated plenty of men that aren't in the airline industry and have still cheated on me.
	I feel like the factor is always there.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But I'm just saying that the risk would be higher in some occupations.
	Would you think the reward would be higher?
	What do you mean?
	Like with, like, I mean, I would think my value as a spouse would be higher.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Well, sure.
	I mean, depending on your occupation, your value could be...
	Yeah.
	Yeah, of course.
	But specifically when we're just talking about the idea of why would it be a red flag to date a flight attendant?
	It might be the same reason it would be maybe a red flag to date a traveling salesman.
	Sure.
	Because it just increases the opportunity for the amount of ex-people you could meet.
	So it increases the potential that that would be.
	Sure, but everybody has red flags.
	Yeah, but it's like a tier, right?
	So there's going to be some red flags that are worse than others.
	Like, for instance, if I came, if I went on a date with a woman and said, yeah, I just got out of the mental hospital yesterday and I'm admitted monthly, wouldn't that be a higher red flag than, oh, I recovered from alcohol 20 years ago and haven't touched it since?
	I mean, I don't know if that's, I think it depends because you can relapse from alcohol anytime.
	You could, but I mean, yes, you could relapse, but if you recovered, let's say 10 years ago or 20 years ago, it's showing a sign that your chance of you relapsing are very low.
	You just got out of a mental hospital yesterday, right?
	It's not showing that the chances of you being readmitted are very low, right?
	I mean, I like to meet people where they're at, so I don't know if I would make that assessment, but yeah, but it's reasonable to make that assessment, right?
	Yeah.
	That's all you say.
	But like, is flight attendant really that big of a deal?
	Like, is that that red flag of a career?
	Yeah, I think from a man's standpoint, yeah.
	That if you have women who are traveling often away from the man or the family unit or things like that, that yeah, that would be a big problem.
	But like I'm home every night.
	Well, now you are.
	You are now.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So.
	But if you weren't.
	Then that would be different.
	Yeah, that would be different.
	Oh, okay.
	Right.
	And this was a thing, too.
	Like, when did you start going back every single night?
	Just maybe the last time.
	Well, like recently.
	Yeah.
	I mean, now that I'm like, you know, not in my 20s anymore, like I'm ready to be an adult.
	Yeah, sure.
	So there's people who do long-haul trucking, same thing.
	They're home every night.
	Yeah.
	They do the same route every day.
	They're home every night.
	Yeah.
	I think that that, but what's the point of that, right?
	It also mitigates opportunity.
	Oh, yeah.
	And you got to be careful with those trucking guys.
	They like the lot lizards.
	What's a lot lizards?
	Is that like a gay joke?
	No, no, no.
	No, it's not a gay joke.
	You hang out at like truck stops and sleep with trucks.
	Wait.
	Just to be clear, so you object to this sort of bias against flight attendants, but you also have a corresponding bias against truck drivers.
	That was definitely a joke.
	But I mean, I don't not have the bias against flight attending.
	Hang on.
	But it's a joke based on a stereotype.
	Sure, I made a joke about a flight attendant.
	I said the same thing that I was sleeping around when I was a flight attendant.
	The joke itself exists based on the stereotypes, just like the joke about flight attendants being promiscuous.
	Did I not say bros in different area codes?
	I made a joke about myself too.
	Yeah, sure.
	And you said something, though, well, wouldn't the value due to me being a flight attendant offset these concerns about me not being as available to spend time with a partner or perhaps risks of infidelity or past promiscuity?
	Could you just clarify what you mean by this value?
	I'm a little confused.
	I mean, I feel like if we're doing a risk assessment, it's like, isn't there always like a pro versus a con?
	That's kind of what I was thinking that you were talking about.
	So I was like, well, if there's a risk, you kind of have to weigh it against a reward.
	So I was saying, like, but the reward is.
	What's the reward?
	I mean, I thought I already explained all that.
	Well, so, okay.
	All the perks and benefits.
	Yeah.
	The health insurance for spouse and child.
	Yeah.
	And then flights.
	Travel.
	Flights.
	And then, I mean, I could stay home.
	And then health insurance.
	And I could stay home and be like a full-time parent while still having a job.
	I'm not sure if free flights and health insurance juxtaposed to promiscuous past, chance of promiscuous past, higher risk of infidelity.
	I don't think those are going to outweigh the.
	And also men typically don't really prioritize a female's career.
	Well, I guess we wouldn't be a match, Brian.
	I'm not trying to date you.
	I'm just speaking in generalities.
	I don't.
	Do you speak for all men?
	Yeah, most men, I'd say, don't really don't really prioritize in terms of what they find attractive.
	You wouldn't prioritize a woman's career if she paid your entire health care, so you wouldn't have to go on your own.
	Well, I can get into that.
	So yes, I would generalize.
	Generally speaking, men, in terms of you making yourself more attractive to men, your career is not really going to be a major factor in terms of his.
	Traveling the world for free isn't a factor?
	Not really.
	No, not really.
	No, that doesn't sound fun to you.
	Then we definitely would not be a match.
	I'm speaking.
	No, but like if you want to travel with your partner, like wouldn't that be something you would want to do?
	Like, yeah, traveling's nice.
	You don't have to be a flight attendant to travel.
	No, but to travel for free, like you would get to go more places.
	So when you're talking about, so I agree with you.
	Yeah.
	Find some common ground here.
	So I agree with one point, and then I'm going to kind of disagree with a different one.
	Sure.
	So the point I'll find common ground with you on is, yeah, I think that everything's a given trade in a relationship.
	So I think you're right.
	Yeah.
	That you could look at it and say there's a lot of perks, right?
	Which outweigh these kind of non-beneficial things, right?
	But I would also argue that kind of the biggest, the biggest thing that nobody wants in their relationship is infidelity.
	That that is the big one, right?
	More than any other type.
	So if you're weighing anything against that, that's almost always going to win, right?
	Sure.
	So then if the thing that you're doing increases the risk of this big thing, which is the infidelity, then you can understand why men would see that as something to stay clear of.
	Sure.
	I think that's kind of like a worst case scenario.
	So, I mean, you know, for me, it would just be then if that's something that's important to them and they're not willing to give me a shot, then they're not my type of person.
	Yeah, that's fair.
	Yeah.
	Well, how would you feel if like the woman's unemployed altogether?
	Like it's that bad too.
	No, men don't give a shit.
	All right.
	Fair enough.
	They don't usually care if women are unemployed.
	It's not a big deal to them usually.
	I really don't know if that's how all men feel.
	I'm not going to put anything in a monolith and say all.
	Well, when you sit here and say men don't give a shit.
	Well, so when I say men, I am speaking in generality, but I'm not saying all.
	I would never say all to anything.
	I've never put anything in a monolith and say this always applies to everybody everywhere because there's no possible way to do that.
	So we're saying.
	But human beings do speak in heuristics.
	And so when I say things like, hand me all of that stuff over there, right?
	I'm not saying to hand me everything in the world, right?
	I'm just saying hand me all of whatever it is that you think it is that I want.
	Yeah, but all of these cups versus all the men in the world is a very different saying.
	Right?
	No, but like all of these cups or handing all of them.
	I'm not going to be angry about it.
	I'm just explaining.
	Yeah, but like if you don't want to be picking up it, the explanation of the heuristic.
	So I'm just saying the explanation of my heuristic when I say all, right?
	And I didn't even say all, but when I say men, I'm not saying every man.
	I'm just saying men in general.
	So you would probably find this trait more common in men than not in men.
	Let me give you an example, okay?
	Men have balls.
	Now, that's not all men.
	There are some men who have no balls.
	You and I would agree that that is true.
	But when I say men have balls, is there any confusion about what I'm talking about?
	Hold on.
	I can give a much more concern.
	I would like an answer to the question, though.
	Is anybody really confused about what I'm talking about when I say men have balls?
	Sure, but I feel like you're breaking down way what we were talking about a long time ago to men have balls.
	Yeah, that's their heuristic.
	All men because men have balls.
	Do I speak for all men when I say men have balls?
	You said men don't give a shit.
	How does that equate to men?
	I'm saying in general, if you look at what you're saying, I feel like you're creating a fallacy here.
	What men report as being preferential?
	What's the fallacy?
	Oh, I have all my fallacies written down.
	You can look it up.
	Tell me which one, which fallacy.
	Ooh, maybe it's slippery slope.
	So like if you're not.
	No, that wouldn't be the slippery slope fallacy.
	You know, the slippery slope fallacy is, well, thing bad is bad because, yeah, that's not the slippery slope.
	Yeah, I don't know if it's quite strawman yet.
	I know you like that one a lot, though.
	I don't think it's.
	It's definitely not a straw man.
	No, not yet.
	We might get there, though.
	Yeah.
	I'll let you know when you're going to get it.
	And if you feel like I'm strawmanning you, you just ask me to steel man your position.
	And then that way you know for sure that I'm not strawmanning.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So anyway, so when I so I'm clarifying the use of my language.
	So when I say all, I'm just speaking in generality.
	I'm not actually putting everything in a monolith.
	Okay.
	Okay, so I'm not saying every single man on planet Earth is supplies.
	So for me, so I understand better, how many men are you speaking for?
	Well, so general just over 51% would be general, right?
	Okay, and how did you get those numbers?
	So I would look at this from the operation of reports, what men report as preferences and don'ts.
	Where do you get those reports?
	Well, you get them from a variety of places.
	Sometimes you got to let me answer the question before you shotgun the next one.
	Sure.
	Look in your list of fallacies and read what Gish Gallop means.
	I don't have Gish Gallup.
	Oh, well, that's what you're doing.
	You've shotgun so many questions that I can't actually answer them.
	You're Gish Galloping.
	You should write that fallacy down.
	Sure, I will.
	Take my course, by the way, on fallacies.
	I would never take your course.
	On fallacies.
	I would never take your course.
	So anyway, you get these things from a variety of places.
	One place that we get a lot of these things from is Pew Research.
	Pew Research dives in, especially to dating, quite a bit.
	And we can pull these things up.
	So what you would be looking for for data like this, men don't give a shit about if women are working or not.
	You can look at the financial status of preferences that men are reporting in the financial brackets of what they prefer to date.
	And it turns out they don't really have a ton of preferences there, but women do.
	So we can kind of ascertain here in a general sense that men don't really care that much about women's financial.
	It's kind of like a hasty generalization, no?
	No, that's not a hasty generalization.
	No.
	Nope.
	No?
	Okay.
	That's a literal, that's a literal explanation for why it is I'm saying what I'm saying.
	It'd be the opposite of a hasty generalization.
	But like A plus B doesn't equal C. Not to me, I don't think.
	Well, no, this isn't.
	Well, first of all, this isn't A plus B equals C. You're saying like the this is so this I'm just telling you all I'm doing is regurgitating data at you.
	That's it.
	From Pew Research?
	Okay.
	So you'd find it from Pew Research, right?
	This particular set of data.
	You can find it in other places too.
	But it's not very controversial that men don't really date based around financial status of women, but that women do date based around financial status of men.
	Sure, okay.
	Yeah.
	Great.
	I'm just glad, like, I didn't know men give a shit.
	Like, I just wanted to make sure that.
	Yeah, but generally, they don't care that much, no.
	So I think we even granted that we're speaking in generalities here.
	Sure.
	I don't think, I even think I said immediately after I made my statement, I'm pretty sure I said, in general, men don't really, when it comes to what they find attractive, don't really care when it comes to women's status or their finances or their money.
	But you're asking, well, like, how do we come to this conclusion?
	I mean, do you, so, for example, do you think it would be wrong to say women generally prefer tall men?
	I don't know that.
	We love a short king.
	That's like a whole thing on Instagram.
	Like, women generally don't want to be hit by a man.
	Hold on.
	I mean, sure, that's a thing, but that's about anyone wants to be hit.
	Yeah.
	People don't want to be hit.
	But that's the same general.
	It's the same general.
	Okay, hold on.
	Hold on.
	It's really not that easy.
	Do you think that most people don't?
	Jyvanik donated to.
	I became an attorney, so my wife wouldn't have to worry about money.
	IDPAF what she makes because I make enough.
	Men don't care.
	Priority is she's attractive, Christly, and wifely and motherly.
	So you can, if you're looking at this, and I can see that you want to look at it logically, which is good.
	So if you're looking at it logically, let's do a quick logic lesson.
	If I say most people don't want to get hit by a car and die, do you know that?
	Sure.
	How do you know that?
	I mean, I would say.
	Because you're using intuition?
	Yeah.
	You're using intuition.
	So can I use intuition to say most women probably like taller men?
	I just don't think that's a simple.
	Well, if everything I see is women with men taller than them, why couldn't I intuit it?
	I don't see that, though.
	You don't?
	I don't think you're looking in the right place.
	Are men on average taller than women?
	Because if they are, then on average, you should see taller men with shorter women.
	I really don't need to belabor this point.
	Like, I understand coming from it night.
	I really need to belabor it.
	No, I've swiped through plenty of men who lie about their height.
	They're 5'9.
	They're not whatever.
	Like, I don't think that.
	But most of the time, when you see a man with a woman, he's taller than a woman, right?
	I mean, I don't know most of the time.
	You don't know if they're taller than the woman?
	What does tall mean to you?
	Does that mean shorter than the woman?
	Same height as the woman?
	Or does that mean is above the woman?
	I don't walk down the street and count he's taller, he's shorter, he's taller, he's shorter.
	No, but you do walk through an airport.
	Okay, hey, that's fine.
	I do walk through it all the time.
	But then sometimes I wear heels and sometimes I don't.
	Are men on average stronger than women?
	Sure, okay.
	How do you know?
	Okay, well, how do you know?
	So that's scientific.
	How do you know?
	Biology.
	I don't know.
	How do I know anything?
	I'm asking you, how do you know?
	How do you know it's scientific?
	Can you quote me the paper?
	Where are you getting that stat from?
	I didn't give a stat to you.
	You just said.
	So if you can't tell me scientifically how you know that men are generally stronger than women, how do you know that?
	Is it because you just kind of notice as you look around that men pick up heavier shit than women do?
	Now I feel like you're strawmanning me.
	So now I feel like you're breaking down my argument to something that was from before.
	I mean, that's exactly what it is.
	That's what I realized.
	A straw man would be, if I'm arguing against a position you don't hold, I asked you, do you think that men on average are stronger than women?
	Okay, hold on.
	One moment.
	Okay.
	Okay, so this is from Purdue.edu.
	Strawman oversimplifies opponent's viewpoint and then attacks that hollow argument.
	Yeah, so a hollow argument would be a position you don't hold.
	Well, a hollow argument would be like nobody wants to get hit by a car.
	Obviously, nobody wants to get hit by a car.
	That's hollow versus.
	Because nobody.
	Okay.
	I don't like, I mean.
	So it's okay for me to intuit things based on observation.
	It's okay for you to intuit things based on observation.
	I have an intuitive.
	Somehow when I make a generalization about these things, I intuit based on observation.
	That's bad.
	But when you do it, it's okay.
	Well, I think you are generalizing for a, like, a sex, and it's something that is like, I'm trying to think how I want to say this.
	Because I don't think, I mean, you know, even if I want to backtrack that to say that you're right and it's wrong to make generalizations about anybody, I can make generalizations that I don't know that nobody wants to hit by a car.
	If you say that it's wrong to make generalizations about anybody, aren't you making a generalization?
	Then how would I?
	I would say that it's wrong to make generalizations as a blanket statement.
	That would be a generalization.
	No, it's not.
	How is it not a generalization?
	Because it's wrong to make generalizations.
	But that's not general.
	That's not a general statement.
	No.
	So would it be wrong for most people to make general statements?
	No.
	It would be wrong to make a generalization.
	So for you to say most people to make a generalization, that would be a generalization.
	For me to say it's wrong to make a generalization, that is just a generalization.
	It's radio and he says, suspect, white, tall, heading southbound.
	He's wrong.
	That's, I said it's wrong to make a generalization.
	That's a generalization.
	That's a generalization.
	He's white and he's tall.
	That's a description.
	It's a general description.
	It's a generalization.
	General description.
	These are heuristics.
	White is a heuristic.
	Tall is a heuristic.
	Do you want to get out Webster's dictionary?
	Yeah, get it out.
	Bring it up.
	Get it out.
	Bring it up.
	Is this how you want to spend the whole podcast?
	Because I will sit here and do it.
	If you want to do pedantry, I'll do pedantry.
	I don't want to.
	Well, then, if you don't want to, then just say, if you want to make general statements that everybody can intuitively see are true, like that, well, men are taller than women, men are generally stronger than women, because we can intuit those things as being true generally.
	I can do that.
	I won't sit here and accept men don't give a shit about a woman's career.
	Okay.
	Would you accept that?
	Most don't.
	I just don't think that.
	Most being over 51%.
	I wouldn't accept that.
	Okay.
	So do you think that over 51% of men are selecting women based on how much money they earn?
	No.
	What do you think they're selecting them on?
	I wouldn't know.
	I'm not a man.
	So then, how could you offer refutation to anything I said if you just don't know?
	Because I don't think that you know.
	But even if I give you the stats, if you gave me the stats, I would believe you.
	That's it, though.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so then, Brian, can you pull up the stats on whether or not men are looking for a moment?
	Absolutely shake your hand and say I was wrong if you gave me the stats.
	Yeah, you can pull them up.
	They're pulling them up right now.
	Sure.
	Men definitely do not select women based on their finances, but the other way around is true.
	Okay.
	Is Nick pulling those up?
	I'm looking for them.
	Yep.
	I could have done this 10 minutes ago.
	That's all I needed.
	I mean, this, if it's kind of so, the thing is interesting is I wouldn't think that this would be the thing you'd want to challenge because this is beyond obviously.
	No, it wasn't.
	That's why I didn't mean to keep going.
	It's beyond obvious, but it's fine.
	We'll pull them up.
	We'll pull them up.
	That's why there's like actual sugar baby sites, you know, like a lot of apps just for women to find.
	They're sugar men.
	I feel like there's more ones for what about gay men?
	Is that a how are we factoring that in?
	I didn't for what?
	We're talking about men and women, not men and men.
	We were talking about sugar babies.
	Even if we were factoring in gay men, there's a lot of people.
	Well, they're not the same.
	I see what that is, I see how that's different.
	Very small.
	But we're looking for women who are concerned with somebody's finances.
	Yeah, we're just seeing if men generally are selecting based on finances or the fact that they want to have sex with the chick.
	I say that it's because they select for beauty.
	Sure.
	Not money.
	Okay.
	That would be their primary reason.
	So are we saying for sex or for relationships?
	No, they're selecting physical characteristics, not external, then physical characteristics.
	Meaning, if you're a really hot chick who makes really a small amount of money versus an ugly chick who makes a lot of money, most men will go for the attractive chicken.
	Sex or relationships are changed.
	I guess both socio.
	Hold on.
	I think you're actually setting this up perfectly with this question.
	So I'm actually prepared to say that when it comes to what Andrew's saying, that men select more when it comes to beauty, physical attractiveness, you're saying sex, casual.
	When you say sex, are you saying like just simply casual?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I would actually argue that when it comes to sex, men are far less selective, just sex.
	Absolutely.
	When it comes to looks.
	To get into a relationship with a man, he's going to be far more selective when it comes to looks.
	And other things.
	But he's still going to prioritize looks in the relationship.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	But I would also over the financial status of it.
	Would you think also that, let me pose a situation to you.
	If there was a woman, like a really beautiful woman, she was so beautiful, but like way in debt, $20,000 in debt, versus a woman who was like, you know, not quite as beautiful, but like, you know, there, you could fuck her, you know?
	Like, that's okay.
	You wouldn't mind.
	But like, she made a lot of money and you wouldn't have to worry about it.
	What would you do?
	So if you make a prioritization and we can say this value here, in this case, X is beauty, is the thing that they're prioritizing over all other things.
	It doesn't mean everything else is worthless as a value add.
	It just means this is the primary thing.
	So if you were to shift the primary value here and just slightly make it lower and then offset it with this secondary thing and make it way higher, they may select for that.
	Sure.
	I'm not disputing that.
	But it wouldn't change the fact that this thing here is still the primary thing that they're looking for.
	So you think that looks are the number one thing that men care about and not finance?
	Yeah, I think that physical attractiveness and beauty is a thing that they're drawn to more than any other factor.
	Do you think that finance is the number one thing men are looking for?
	What do you think the number one thing men are looking for?
	I'm not sure, because I think if I knew, I would probably like, I don't know, actually.
	Personality.
	I would say most men are looking for a partner to go through life and if I'm in their own line.
	Yeah, I would think it would be a mix of everything, you know?
	I don't think like some hot girl, like some hot bitch that's $50,000 in debt walking down the street, you're like, that's me, that's my wife.
	You know?
	So do you agree with me that procreation is necessary for humanity to continue to exist?
	No.
	Well, oh, to continue to exist, yeah, but I don't think humanity is exactly.
	Yeah, to continue to exist.
	So if that is the case, you do agree with me that this was done by a man and a woman having sexual intercourse.
	She became pregnant and then she had a baby, right?
	That's how that's done.
	Sure.
	So how would a man select for that?
	For who he wanted to impregnate?
	How would he select for that?
	What would be the thing within five seconds a man could look at instantly and go, want to put a baby in the family?
	Have you heard about the man riding the elephant?
	Like that theory?
	Okay, so before we get into that.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Would you agree with me that within a few seconds, right, men can utilize the standard of beauty to quickly ascertain whether or not they want to impregnate a woman?
	Sure.
	Yeah, sure.
	Right.
	So what's that?
	Women can also select off a look.
	Literally not disputing that at all.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	However, women might prioritize other categorizations than just this thing.
	Sure.
	When you look at somebody in the first five seconds.
	Hang on.
	So men's categorization for, okay, I see beauty, right?
	Whoa, beautiful, great, awesome.
	Women might look at other things.
	They might be like, ah, nice suit, nice car, nice this, nice set.
	They may have some other value add that they're looking for.
	But for men, they're looking visually very quickly, ascertaining very quickly, hot want.
	I think what you're talking about is like the like the nature of a man, right?
	Like his animal instinct.
	And I think that's the same for a woman.
	Like I think you're talking about like, like I said, the man riding the elephant, like the elephant's like the part of you that's like old and inherent and like the what you're doing in your subconscious.
	And I think like, okay, a man is seeing a woman.
	Oh, she's hot.
	I want to impregnate her.
	A woman is seeing a man, like strong features.
	I don't think in the first five seconds, like I'm not looking at a man and what he's wearing.
	Grid One Motorsports donated $200.01.
	Sorry, tons of fun.
	My wife had no money and had a master's degree to pay for.
	I married her because she was the only person I ever missed.
	It helped she's smoking hot and sexed me up like I like it.
	Yo, Grid One, appreciate it.
	We do actually have the data that you were asking for.
	It's from the Pew Research Center.
	Nick, if you can.
	Wait, where is it from?
	Pew, let's do it.
	Wait, from Pew?
	Where did I say it was from?
	Hell yeah, let's do it.
	Okay, Americans say a man should be able to support a family financially, but don't say the same about women.
	Percent of adults saying it is very important that the man-woman has each trait in order to be a good husband in the teal, green, whatever, and in the yellow-gold good wife partner.
	So on the second one, be able to support a family financially.
	I believe this is from women to men.
	So 71% of women to men say that they want a good husband, partner to be able to support a family financially.
	32% of men are saying that in order to be a good wife partner, the woman needs to be able to support a woman's life.
	You remember how you said earlier, if we pull this up from PewDiePie, you would say that you were wrong.
	Absolutely, I'm wrong.
	You're wrong.
	Yeah, I'm wrong.
	You're right.
	Who's wait?
	I was right.
	Okay.
	Yeah, you're right.
	Absolutely.
	Thanks for sharing the data.
	I really appreciate that.
	But just to make one thing clear: so we do speak in generalizations here.
	Like Andrew said, you can intuit some of these things.
	We're not going to be able to pull up statistics in each and every instance when we're just having sort of casual conversations.
	Like people can just throw out general statements about things.
	And we're not always going to be able to pull up the statistics.
	Again, they're just general statements.
	They're not facts.
	But like, do you need a study to do you need a study to show that, generally speaking, women prefer tall men?
	I don't want to belabor the point.
	Well, you could just answer the question and I can move it on.
	If I say yes, then I'm going to, then we're going to belabor the point.
	Like, there should be evidence behind what you say.
	I agree with that.
	So, sure, we can speak in generalizations.
	This is an informal podcast.
	We're not on Joe Rogan.
	We don't need to look at evidence all the time.
	Evidence can be intuitive.
	Sure, that's great.
	I really would love to move on from this.
	Okay, so how about this?
	Do I need like a study?
	For example, if I were to say that the sky is blue, do I need a study for that?
	Or can we just observe with our own eyes that it's blue?
	Do we need a study?
	I don't know.
	Is my blue different than your blue?
	How do we know what blue is blue?
	I'm not trying to do a gotcha on the screen.
	No, I know.
	Sure.
	No, we can generalize this.
	We're trying to just articulate that.
	Yes, we can say that the sky is blue.
	Certainly, there are people who are perhaps colorblind who registered as gray.
	Yeah, but I don't think it would be wrong to make a statement because the sky is blue.
	I am telling you, this is not something that I need to keep talking about.
	These women are way more interesting than this topic.
	I really don't want to keep talking about it.
	I mean, everybody deserves to have some time, but if you're going to.
	I mean, the point needed to be belabored because if we're going to have communication, we have to know how to communicate with it.
	We have to know how to communicate with them.
	I have a degree in communications.
	Yeah.
	So then you agree that we need to know how to communicate with people.
	Yeah, and I think that if you're going to quote a statistic that's not over, like overall inherent, like the sky is blue.
	That's something I think everybody could agree on.
	I didn't agree on that, so I asked you for research.
	We could have just done that in two seconds instead of a 10-minute argument of why I needed the research.
	Okay.
	That way we could move.
	But the thing is, is I still, so now it's my turn to say what I have trouble believing.
	Absolutely.
	Very difficult for me to believe in the current year that women don't know that men don't have much in the way of preferences towards women's finances.
	I don't know that.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I mean, you have to think of like where, like, I mean, where I'm, I live and in my like space, that's not you know.
	Can I ask you a question?
	So do you think, using you as an example, sure, that a man would prefer, how do I want to frame this here?
	I can't.
	So you're flight attendant.
	What men know, so I don't know.
	Well, you're a flight attendant, you get these perks, they would potentially benefit a boyfriend or future husband.
	Given that, do you think they would prefer you as is with your job?
	Or let's say you were somehow magically able to transform and be like three points more attractive, but you don't have a job and you're a barista and you make minimum wage.
	Do you think they'd prefer you as you are now with your really cool job or whatever, or three points more attractive, but you're just a barista and you make minimum wage?
	I mean, I think that's okay if somebody thinks that, but that's their opinion.
	Well, in terms of your romantic prospects, do you think you would do better in the dating landscape, the dating marketplace, with one or the other?
	I don't think it matters because I wouldn't want to date somebody that would want me to be three points hotter but be a barista.
	So I would rather be single.
	But in terms of romantic interest showing your way.
	Okay, so fine.
	You personally would not want to date a man who would find, who would want to partner with a woman of a lower socioeconomic status.
	You don't find that disgusting.
	That's fine.
	No, that's not what I said.
	Well, it's.
	I said that's not my preference.
	But you're.
	Okay.
	You said that.
	I said I value other things besides looks, so I wouldn't want a person that values looks over everything else.
	Yeah, I think that that's fair.
	I'm just saying the heart of the question.
	See, and you could have hit him with the straw man.
	That would have worked.
	That might have been a straw man.
	But anyway, the thing is, is the heart of the question, what we're trying to get at, is whether or not you would prefer that, right?
	We're trying to look at it from the other perspective.
	Do you think that men would likely have a preference towards one or the other?
	Didn't we just have this conversation?
	No.
	I can't speak to what men would like.
	Okay.
	Do you have no opinion on whether or not they would like to do that?
	Why can't women speak to what men like?
	I'm not a man.
	I don't know.
	But like, as men, we've kind of learned to some degree certain things that men, or excuse me, that women like in men.
	Women like confident guys.
	They look tall, successful, et cetera, et cetera.
	I don't think that this is really interesting.
	I mean, I sat here and said, I feel like I'm a valuable person because I have a great job and a lot of things to offer.
	And you just sat here and said, no, you don't.
	That's a straw man.
	I didn't say that.
	And you said, well, most men don't think so.
	It had nothing to do with your value as a person, but like when it comes to the money.
	Didn't you say that most men don't care about finances?
	Yeah, but so me saying most can't most men aren't dating around a financial preference has nothing to do with your value.
	Oh, okay.
	Why would that have anything to do with your value?
	Well, I guess not.
	Yeah.
	But I thought that my finances brought value to my dating.
	They will.
	That's what I thought.
	Of course, she's absolutely right.
	To somebody, I'm sure that they're.
	My partner along distance.
	Right.
	So, but most, most men.
	So I thought I knew what most men like.
	So obviously I'm wrong.
	So I really can't speak to what most men would like.
	That's what I'm saying.
	It's like, I was wrong.
	I told Andrew I was wrong.
	I'm wrong.
	I'm wrong.
	Let's get through the rest of the relationship.
	Please.
	Yes.
	Please, your lord.
	Go ahead.
	I'm single.
	I've been single for three years, and my last relationship was like five months, and he ghosted me out of nowhere.
	And sorry, longest relationship was five months, you said, or was it five months ago?
	No, that was my last relationship.
	My longest is three years.
	Three years.
	And so you've been single for five months?
	No, I've been single for like three years.
	But that relationship was like five months.
	The one that ended three years ago, it was a five month.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	All right.
	Got it.
	What about you?
	I've been married for 14 years.
	Hey, congratulations.
	I was the nanny.
	Okay.
	Any kids?
	Wait, what?
	We have three.
	We have four kids together.
	Three kids together, but we have four kids.
	Wait, wait, back up to the nanny thing.
	What, what now?
	I was the nanny.
	Was there a wife?
	Yeah, but yeah, which way did you marry?
	So I was my husband then, his ex-wife's nanny.
	Oh.
	And then.
	Were they married at the time?
	No, not when we got together.
	They were separated after Shanna Bear.
	Oh, gotcha.
	So, wait, you met your now husband when he was married to another woman.
	Correct.
	And you were working for them.
	I was nannying, yes.
	And was there, did you hook up with the husband?
	No.
	Not during the course of the relationship?
	No, no, no.
	Oh, okay.
	Not when I was nanny.
	Like, she ended up having an affair with my roommate and then they separated.
	And then he and I ended up actually randomly getting together like a month before the divorce was finalized.
	Okay, cool.
	Randomly.
	Interesting.
	Yeah.
	What about you?
	I'm currently single.
	I'm talking to somebody.
	And my last, well, my longest relationship was two years.
	And he broke up with me the day I got my wisdom teeth out while I was high on the anesthesia they give you.
	Yes.
	That's awesome.
	Wait, so.
	Definitely not awesome.
	Brutality.
	Yes!
	Wait, so you've been single for how long?
	Two years now.
	All right, two years.
	And this is the one that ended.
	Yeah, it ended two years ago.
	Okay.
	And we were dating for two years.
	Dating for two years, ended two years ago?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	He broke up with you on the day you got your wisdom teeth out.
	Any reason why?
	Did you talk to him about it?
	Yeah, we fought a lot, like a lot.
	But like, I don't really know why he chose to do it on that day.
	Maybe it's because I was more out of it.
	And he was like, oh, well, maybe it won't hurt as bad because she's high.
	But.
	When you said you.
	You just forgot you were getting your wisdom teeth out.
	No, he knew.
	And he actually, my mom, like, she offered to like take care of me when I got my wisdom teeth out because they say not to leave, like, leave the person alone.
	And he said, no, it's okay.
	I got her.
	Did you guys argue the night before?
	No, actually, the night before, he we have a, we have a dog together.
	He asked me if I wanted to get another dog with him the night before.
	We were not arguing.
	And you said you guys argued a lot?
	Yes.
	Everything.
	We just, like, he's.
	I know that sounds bad that he broke up with me because of my wisdom teeth, but he's not a bad guy.
	Like, we just have very different opinions on things.
	And.
	Like what?
	Just life in general.
	Like, I don't know.
	I feel like he's a very stubborn person and he can't really.
	It's kind of hard to explain.
	But we just didn't get along great.
	Who would start the arguments?
	Probably me.
	Yeah.
	Probably you.
	Yeah, probably me.
	Awesome.
	What's an example of an argument?
	Let me think.
	Hmm.
	Gosh, well, it's been two years.
	I don't really remember an exact argument we had.
	Oh, okay.
	So one time he was laying in front of me and he had his phone out.
	And he was on Snapchat.
	And like, I'm fine with him having friends that are girls and like talking to them.
	That's fine with me.
	But this girl posted a picture very clearly showing off her boobs.
	And in front of me, he commented on it.
	And he just said boobs.
	I know, like, he didn't put like hard eyes or whatever, but we got an argument about that because I was like, that's not okay, and why would you do that?
	It makes no sense.
	I heard that.
	Are you okay with that?
	I'm not.
	That's why I don't know.
	Like, why are you, like, what is it about them, like, a man that you're dating, having female friends that showcase pictures like that or something?
	Oh, no, no, no.
	I don't, I, I mean, I just, I know, I'm just curious.
	I'm okay if they're friends with somebody that does that as long as they're not hooking up with that person or commenting.
	But if we're establishing that men are their primary benefit of having women in their life is looking at them, wouldn't it be a red flag to you?
	Um, no, because I have a lot of guy friends that, like, I my primary benefit with them is like friendship, right?
	Like, I have guy friends too, too.
	Yeah, like, we all do.
	But that's not the same for men.
	Well, I don't, I don't know.
	I don't really think that way.
	I feel like, I don't know.
	I think that men can have women friends.
	That's just not a problem for me, to be honest.
	Okay.
	Well, one question.
	So, you, it seems like you had an issue with this.
	Do you, during the course of the relationship, would you post any sort of photos onto your Instagram, like bikini photos or anything like that?
	No.
	Well, bikini photos, but like he took them.
	So like he was fine.
	He didn't have a problem with me posting that type of stuff.
	Same for, I mean, he didn't really post on Instagram, but.
	But so isn't the counter to a guy who is liking other girls' Instagram posts?
	I don't care.
	I don't know.
	Isn't the kind of sort of equivalent a woman, like your girlfriend, posting that sort of content on Instagram?
	Personally, me, I don't think so.
	I don't honestly, I don't even know what I think when I post stuff like that.
	I kind of like my boyfriend to see it, but yeah, I guess I am posting it to my social media.
	Hmm.
	Because I mean, I don't think it's going to be a one-to-one with men and women because typically when it comes to at least romantic interactions on these social media platforms, so men, they're going to like, they're going to slide into the DMs.
	Women aren't really going to slide into the DMs.
	They're going to post a revealing photo or any photo in the hopes that that garners them male attention and then they'll receive that attention.
	They'll get a DM from a guy.
	Okay, well, at the time, I was doing, I didn't really post a lot.
	I think like I posted like one bikini photo that he took of me because I liked how it looked in the picture.
	Anyways, he broke up with you.
	Yeah.
	You got your wisdom teeth out.
	Maybe he was just doing it because he knew you wouldn't be able to have an argument with him.
	Oh, we still argued.
	We still argued.
	Really?
	Yes.
	That's an L for him.
	Well, you guys had intermingling of, you guys had an animal together.
	Yeah, well, yeah.
	But like when you break up with somebody, you don't really owe them anything.
	Yeah, but I kept the dog.
	Like, I don't think in a breakup situation, you don't owe the person closure.
	No, I know, but like, isn't it weird, don't you think?
	That out of all days he could have broken up with me, it happens to be the day that I just got my wisdom teeth out.
	I disagree.
	It's a little weird.
	Like, it's not outrageous, but it is a little odd.
	Fair enough.
	I just think ghosting is a really red flag.
	No, he's not ghosting.
	Yeah, he didn't ghost me.
	Just like, hey, I'm over it.
	He came home from work.
	Yeah.
	And she could have picked a day where she wasn't getting her wisdom teeth out.
	I know, like, the next thing that I'm saying.
	I think that I would hope that my partner would respect me enough for that.
	I agree with that.
	I just want to ask a question.
	At what point do you think you owe somebody closure?
	I mean, Longer you've been in a relationship, but um he did give me closure though, so we're on.
	I don't think if somebody feels uncomfortable with it, you need to like, oh, okay, let's have like multiple conversations about this.
	You want to continue having conversations about this.
	I think you can have a singular conversation about it, and I think it can be fine.
	Sure, agree.
	Depends on the situation.
	I don't know.
	Women do that shit all the time.
	That doesn't mean it's okay.
	Women ghost all the time.
	Doesn't mean it's okay.
	Sure.
	Men ghost all the time, too.
	Sure.
	It's just a people thing, you know?
	Sure, but it's, I've actually had this situation where I've had a girl break up with me and she wants to have the closure conversation.
	I'm like, hold on, it might be one thing if you're doing the breaking up and the other person wants the closure conversation, you know, like you're breaking up with them and they why.
	But if you want to break up with somebody and you want to have the conversation, I don't think they owe you a conversation.
	If you like, as a girl, if you're about to break up with a guy and say you're going to do it over the phone or something.
	Yeah.
	I don't think the guy needs to actually talk it through with you.
	He can just be like, I respect your decision.
	I wish you the best.
	It was nice knowing you.
	Click.
	I think that's totally cool.
	I feel like there's a really fun thing we can do right now.
	Like, raise your hand if you don't like to be ghosted.
	Who likes to be ghosted?
	No one likes it.
	Right.
	Don't raise your hand if you don't like to be ghosted.
	Now raise your hand if you've ghosted somebody.
	Like, oh, not somebody I was like, oh, but like I'm saying, like, we don't love it, but we do it.
	Sometimes it's easier.
	Like, I don't know.
	I think it's valid.
	Like, I'm just between ghosting and closure.
	Because to me, ghosting is different.
	Yeah.
	Okay, cool.
	I'm glad we're on the same page.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Anyways, relationship status, I think.
	Let's go.
	Married.
	Okay.
	Married for six, been together for eight.
	All right.
	This is your longest.
	No, I was previously married for 15 years.
	Off and on.
	Okay.
	Kids.
	Wait, did you say off and on?
	We were together off and on, yeah.
	Oh, off together.
	Okay, kids.
	So two kids from the previous, and then one from now, and then I have a stepdaughter.
	I am single.
	I've been single for about nine years.
	My longest relationship was 11 years.
	It was my marriage.
	We were together before marriage, I would say eight years, married for three.
	Okay.
	Kids?
	Kids, I have a daughter.
	I also have a son that's been given away an adoption.
	So I birthed two children, but one is my child.
	Okay.
	All right.
	What about you?
	I'm getting married in 60 days.
	So congratulations, guys.
	We met in Nashville through a mutual friend.
	And the longest relationship I had was my first relationship from seventh grade till senior year of high school.
	So I've been doing that.
	And how long have you been together with your current person?
	We met in August of 21, got engaged in June of 23.
	We didn't start dating.
	Sorry, timeline.
	August of 21, June of 22, we started actually dating.
	A year from the day we started dating, we got engaged.
	And then a year and some change later, we'll get married.
	So together two, three years?
	Yeah.
	And I will say, if anybody's getting engaged, like the wedding industry, the way they wait, make you wait so long to get married is just such crap.
	It's so awful waiting.
	would have married him the moment that he proposed to me and i just feel like a destination wedding It's awaited.
	It's so much better.
	It's just, it's so wrong to wait.
	I feel like it leaves so much wiggle room in the way that we have engagements in America right now.
	It's just so bad.
	So, not that I'm living through it, but I disagree with that.
	And what about you?
	I am married, been married for four years, together with him for nine years.
	We met in college.
	We did have a small little break in there.
	I met him when I was 18, 18, fiery, and just didn't have my stuff together.
	A lot of wounds from growing up with separated parents.
	After that breakup, he went overseas.
	He was in the military.
	We kind of reconnected like months, six months or so after, and then got back together and have never been apart since.
	All right.
	Congrats.
	Cool, cool.
	All right, we got everyone's relationship status.
	I do want to get into some of the pre-show notes here.
	Although, before we do, a little earlier, Stiffler, he does ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of one to 10, starting with you.
	How I do myself.
	Or I'm waiting.
	You got to do it into the sorry.
	I'm already myself, or am I ready to go?
	So you said your own looks.
	My own looks?
	I will give myself a 10 out of 10.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I went through a lot of therapy to get myself to where I feel like I'm a 10 out of 10, so I'm going to remove myself from this conversation because I'm not going to let a podcast undo years of therapy.
	Thank you.
	Wait, you're... Wait...
	You mean I'm a little confused.
	I had a lot of issues with self-esteem, and I worked through them a lot in therapy.
	And part of that is seeing myself a 10 out of 10.
	So I'm going to keep that delusion for me.
	Thanks.
	So just to be clear, if you were to engage in this conversation and on this podcast, it would totally be catastrophic to years and years of therapy.
	I just don't want to continue the conversation because I feel like it could be if we belabor the point like we did about what was going on before.
	Like to me, I think it's I'm a 10 out of 10, and that's all I need to say about that.
	Well, I want to actually explore this in terms of a mental health standpoint or how?
	Well, I just, if therapy is actually effective, how would having a conversation undo years and years of therapy?
	Because like a trigger can do stuff like that, like if you have a triggering situation.
	And so part of your therapy entailed viewing yourself in terms of your own physical appearance as perfect.
	It's along the lines of like hyping yourself up, you know, like, you know, you're like, you're a bad bitch, you're great.
	Like saying those affirmations are something that helped me a lot in my journey.
	Sure.
	You know, well, let me ask you a different question, Matt.
	Journey.
	Oh, yeah, you love that word.
	Did you?
	Have you ever seen a beautiful girl with a mid-guy?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Is that a phenomenon?
	Like, any other person?
	Didn't I tell you I don't want to talk about this because of my mental health?
	Like, I'm going to draw a boundary here and move on.
	Okay.
	If it affects your mental health, we'll just move on.
	I would like to move on, please.
	I mean, I was asking a different question, though.
	Other panelists, have you seen this phenomenon of like mid-mid guys with like beautiful girls?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Okay, I'll move on to you.
	Unfortunately, I haven't gone to therapy.
	I used to think of myself as a three.
	But with this job, I think I'm a six.
	With a what?
	With this job, like social media and everything, posting myself more often.
	Your job.
	So before the job, you were a three.
	Yeah.
	With the job, you're now a six.
	In terms of your looks, so your looks have increased because of self-esteem is a powerful thing.
	I thought you didn't want to talk on this topic.
	I thought you didn't want to engage anyway.
	Yeah, I feel like it has helped me boost my confidence, change what I look like to make myself feel prettier.
	So your face shape has transformed ever since doing porn?
	I guess.
	It's, you know, maneuvered.
	Change my hair, yeah.
	Yeah, but you could have changed your hair prior to doing the porn.
	Okay.
	So just to be clear, the question isn't about your confidence.
	It's just about physical looks.
	Six.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	I'd say an eight, maybe.
	Eight?
	Okay.
	I'd say about a six.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I would say a six.
	I think I'm like a three.
	Okay.
	I would have usually said a seven, but you can't say seven, so I'm going to have one with.
	Yeah.
	I'll go with eight.
	Okay.
	Eight.
	Andrew?
	Four.
	Give myself five.
	Give myself a five.
	Why are you guys rating yourself so low?
	That just makes me so sad.
	Yeah.
	That makes me so, so sad.
	It's always good to better yourself.
	Are y'all going to be a little bit more?
	You get to go on the scale, so 10 is like the most beautiful woman you've ever seen.
	Yeah.
	Would you feel that way about yourself?
	It's a reality.
	It's reality.
	If you don't feel that way about yourself, how's anybody else going to feel that way?
	It's not about how I feel.
	It's the actual looks.
	I'll just put this out there.
	This is the most honest woman I've ever seen on this podcast ever.
	The most honest.
	Yes.
	Most honest answer I've ever heard from a woman on the podcast.
	Grid One Motorsports donated $200.01.
	I agree with my fellow Nashvillian.
	Long engagements are stupid.
	Expensive wedding ceremonies that start your life together and debt our insanity.
	Question for the panel: Do you support feminism?
	Yeah, we'll get into that.
	Really quick, just going around the table.
	Do you support feminism?
	Yes.
	Not today's feminism.
	Yeah, it depends on what feminism means to.
	No.
	No.
	Fuck no.
	No.
	Okay.
	So going back to the whole 10 thing, I'm going to ask one other different question here.
	So do you think you'll be better looking in 10 years' time as compared to now?
	So you're 23.
	Do you think you'll be better looking at 33 than you are now at 23?
	I don't think I'm going to change much.
	I think I'll look relatively the same.
	Okay, what about, so same in terms of attracting this 33 to 23?
	What about 43, 20 years' time?
	I'll probably look more attractive, 33.
	Or 23, 33.
	Yeah, I would say 43.
	I'll look older.
	I don't think like older is less attractive, though.
	I think I just don't feel like that.
	So the question is not: will you still be attractive?
	You may very well still be attractive.
	Not making that claim at all.
	But the question is, just will you be more the same or less attractive as you currently are at your current age?
	The same.
	I would say, because I would say that that factor changes based on age.
	What someone considers like a hot 45-year-old is going to be very different than what they consider like a hot 25-year-old.
	So if I consider myself attractive at this age, I would consider myself attractive at 43 as well, too.
	Okay.
	What about so 53?
	Yes.
	63?
	Yeah.
	Look, there's grandmas that can still get it.
	There's I don't.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And then going to you, you're 31.
	Do you think you'll be more attractive in 10 years' time?
	I think this conversation is objectifying and disgusting.
	I'll pass.
	Well, how is it?
	Why is it disgusting?
	It's a simple question.
	We can answer it too.
	Do you think it's objectifying women or objectifications?
	I think it's objectifying in general.
	What's wrong with objectification?
	I'm not a fan of it.
	Do you wait?
	See, can I just pass?
	Do you really want to break this down?
	You could just engage.
	You requested to be on the show.
	I did.
	Sure.
	But like, I mean, there's like, there's the two things that I didn't want to do.
	I didn't want to rate myself on a scale of one to ten.
	And that's.
	All right.
	You promised those are the only two things you don't want to do.
	Yeah, and I don't want to, my body count, because that's it.
	Okay, so three things.
	No, I said rate myself on a scale of one to ten and my body count.
	Yeah, but this isn't rating, though.
	Oh, well, in 10 years, okay, I think there's the potential to do both because of plastic surgery and lots of things.
	Okay.
	Well, how about this?
	Do you think, what about 51 compared to 31?
	51, I don't, you know, I don't know.
	20 years time.
	Do you think you'll be better looking in.
	I don't know.
	I don't, that's not, I don't see things in that way.
	So when you, when you age, are there changes to your face, your skin?
	Sure, but like when I look at, like when I look at pictures of myself when I was 20, like, do I think I was beautiful?
	Yeah, but like I see myself now and like I think that things about me now, maybe if they're not like as physically attractive, I see them as attractive because it like shows things that I've like been through.
	What do you mean physically?
	Yeah, I don't know.
	Like, because I do think that like confidence and energy does come out physically.
	You know, the way you carry yourself, the way you hold yourself.
	So I think like as an insecure 20-year-old versus a secure 30-year-old versus a very secure 40-year-old versus like a glowing 50-year-old, I think there could be differences.
	Wait, a secure 30-year-old?
	Yeah.
	Well, how can you be secure if just having a single conversation on a rating would undo years of therapy?
	But it didn't because I drew a boundary.
	Yeah, so I mean, it doesn't sound like security, but okay.
	Well, I mean, that's, I draw a boundary for a triggering subject.
	That's actually what adults do.
	If it's something you don't want to talk about, you don't have to talk about it.
	We have many things that we're not supposed to talk about on this podcast.
	Yeah, but it's not because we wouldn't want to talk about them.
	It's because we're at the confines and the mercy of the platform that we're on.
	Not because I wouldn't want to talk about it.
	Why do you think those topics are not allowed on this platform?
	Because a bunch of fucking communists own the platform.
	Well, that's why?
	Yeah, anyway.
	Honestly.
	That sounds like a generalization.
	Well, yeah, it is a generalization.
	Specific generalization.
	I think we know who's going to rage quit.
	Andrew?
	No, I probably will leave early, though, because I got to go to work tomorrow.
	Oh.
	Not right now, but keep going.
	So much for the bad bitch.
	Did I say I was a bad ass?
	You did earlier.
	In your conversation, you rewind it.
	You said, that's why my therapist told me to be a bad bitch.
	Oh, you know what I mean?
	Bad bitches.
	Question on this.
	Question on this.
	Kind of rewinding a bit here.
	You're 31.
	Do you think you were better looking at 21 than you are now at 31?
	Physically sure, yeah.
	Oh.
	Physically sure.
	Yeah.
	Well, so, but why can't you answer the definitive, like moving forward in time?
	Because I don't know what's going to happen.
	Well, I mean, just looking at, I guess, trajectory.
	I don't know what's going to happen.
	Sure, of course.
	That happened.
	Do you have stocks?
	I'm sure I do somewhere.
	Well, it's possible that there could be total societal collapse and your stocks could end up worthless.
	But if you had to be a betting woman in 10 years' time, knowing what you know about the stock market, for example, over periods of time, it just goes up, even if we're currently going through a bit of a crash.
	But over time, it's just continually going up, even if there's periods of decline in the stock market, right?
	So, best guess?
	Couldn't tell, yeah.
	Okay, all right.
	Do you not have a mother to look at and say, this is my mother's like really beautiful?
	Well, yeah, so that's how you can possibly gauge how you'll look in the future, right?
	Yeah.
	By looking at your mother.
	But I could like gain 50 pounds, lose 50 pounds.
	I could get a whole lot of Botox, no Botox.
	I couldn't possibly show what you're doing.
	So you could make a generalization of saying yes or no.
	Right.
	Sure?
	Just curious.
	Okay, I could.
	That's how I look at it.
	Yeah.
	I look at my mother and go, that's how she aged.
	Am I age the same?
	Okay.
	All right.
	You are 26, better looking in 10 years' time at 36?
	I think so.
	46?
	Hopefully.
	56?
	Yeah.
	Better looking.
	Yeah.
	66?
	Anything could happen.
	Anything could happen?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	76, better looking at 76 as compared to now at 26.
	Hell yeah.
	If you were to remain in your current industry, do you think you, in terms of the money you can make, and the money goes up when you get older?
	You think there's more demand for 76-year-old porn stars as compared to 26-year-old porn stars?
	Okay.
	You are 37, better looking at 47 in 10 years' time?
	Or better looking now?
	That's a hard one because I'm at age.
	I would say maybe about the same, hopefully better looking.
	But the older I get, I would say it's probably go down.
	And you're 37?
	Do you think you're better looking at 27 than you are now at 37?
	No.
	Better looking at 27?
	37.
	Oh, better looking at 37 than at 27.
	Apparently, yeah.
	All right.
	And then better looking at 57 as compared to 37?
	I think it's starting to go down a little bit.
	22, better looking at 32 than now?
	Hopefully if I start working out.
	What if you don't?
	What if you don't start working out?
	And you stay the same weight?
	I think I'd probably be better looking now.
	Okay.
	And then what, oh, okay, so better at 22 than 32?
	Okay.
	And then for you, 40, better looking at 50 than you are now at 40?
	No way.
	Okay, and then were you better looking at 30 than you are now at 40?
	Yeah, my 30s were definitely my prime.
	Okay, and were you better looking at 20 than you were at 30?
	Nope.
	20s were definitely like party, don't care about yourself.
	30s were like 30s were the okay sure I was in my prime of weightlifting and all that, so.
	40, do you think you'll be better looking at 50 than you are now at 40?
	No.
	Into the mic, if you can.
	Were you better looking at 30 as compared to now at 40?
	No, actually, I think I look better now at 40 than I did at 30.
	Okay, and then better looking at 20?
	Better looking now than at 20?
	I think I, yes, actually.
	Better looking now than at 20.
	Okay.
	And really quick, going back to you, better looking at 20 than now?
	No.
	No.
	Okay, got it.
	And then, Chrissy, you're 27.
	Better looking now, or will you be better looking at 37?
	Oh, I'll look better now.
	Okay.
	And then better looking now, or will you be better looking at 37 10 years?
	Now.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	There you have it, folks.
	There are the answers.
	Thank you, Matthew, for the gifted five memberships.
	The 10 rating is an interesting one to me.
	You don't want to get into it, though, but you rated yourself at 10.
	You also said, though, you would be better looking in 10 years' time.
	So how can you be a 10 now, but also be better looking?
	Or excuse me, actually, just to be fair, I think you said you'll be the same.
	So I guess I can't make that argument.
	Yeah, but she also said she'd be the same at 50.
	Yeah.
	I think I really like old people.
	I think a lot of old people are really beautiful.
	You can see that they have a lot of life experience.
	I think a lot of people don't even make it to 50.
	And I think if you're lucky enough, you should really cherish the life you have.
	And yeah, I just, I don't know.
	I very cherish who people are as people more than I guess what they physically look.
	A soul is more important to me.
	My partner is considerably more attractive to me now that I know him more than when I first met him.
	Considerably more.
	Considerably more.
	So yeah, I think the more I get to grow and learn as a person, the better I'll be in a lot of different areas.
	And that's just me personally.
	I understand that, you know, not everyone's going to rate me a 10 out of 10.
	And I'm okay with that.
	Fair enough.
	Yeah.
	Will it, really quick, going back to you?
	Do you think all women are tens?
	I think it's whatever they rate themselves.
	Do you think all men are tens?
	One sec.
	Seriously, Shelby donated $200.
	Can we get the orca out of the room?
	Let's be honest, she doesn't want the truth and wants to be in the Lulu land.
	She needs the heat to see reality.
	First time donation, long time, watcher.
	All right.
	Seriously, Shelby, thank you for the TTS.
	Appreciate it.
	Are all men tens?
	It's whatever they think of themselves.
	Like, I think your self-esteem is really important.
	But why when earlier I asked if you've ever seen a mid-guy with a beautiful woman, you were able to make some sort of determination as to people's physical appearance.
	That you're making a judgment on their physical appearance.
	Otherwise, how would you be able to categorize the woman as beautiful and the man as mid or average in the looks department?
	And so I'm a little confused with that.
	Okay, what do you want to break down?
	Well, you do have some basis for being able to make determinations when it comes to physical appearance.
	Okay.
	Because you were able to categorize the man as mid and the woman as beautiful.
	Okay.
	And so I guess where I'm confused is how and why.
	What are you confused about?
	Well, you have these objections to the rating thing.
	You think it's objectification.
	You think it's disgusting.
	But you didn't seem to have any hesitation at all when it came to categorizing a man as a mid.
	So was your own categorization that you made of a man being mid?
	Because everybody has a preference.
	But you, I mean, is it objectification and disgusting on your end?
	No, because I'm not going to sit here and go around a table and say who's a mid and who's not and ask everybody to rate themselves.
	Sure, it could be somebody who's not even in the room, just something that's come into your mind through your even imagination.
	You could have made them up in your mind, might have not even been a real person you've seen.
	Sure.
	But is it disgusting and objectifying for you to be able to make a determination if a man's a mid in terms of his looks?
	I mean, I think there's inherent, like, maybe judgment off the bat, but I think to put it online and to like put it on a panel is objectifying and disgusting.
	Even if you're talking about the circumstance of why people do that.
	What do you mean?
	Well, so in this particular case, I think I'm trying to, well, I think I got to figure it out what your perception is.
	Tell me if I'm wrong.
	That you're saying, so yes, I have some factor for my own perception of what I consider to be good looking or not good looking.
	Right.
	And I can make those value judgments.
	Okay.
	However, it doesn't mean if I'm in a room with a bunch of people and you ask me to make that value judgment, even though I may be able to, that I actually will.
	Right.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	But what if the purpose of the conversation is to make the evaluation as to why people are doing that in the first place?
	Why is it that people have these value judgments?
	What is it that is shared about those value judgments so that people can either improve upon themselves or Eula sees the pagan donated $200.
	He's saying your hypocrisy is a huge ass your tonnage.
	So anyway, so the point is if the conversation is itself in regards to why it is that people view that, right?
	Why do they think these things?
	Why is it that your subjective preference actually may line up with other people's subjective preference far better than we kind of pretend that it does, right?
	Well, so you could say that everybody's preference for what they're attracted to is subjective.
	I'd agree with that to a degree.
	Sure.
	But I think that there might be overlapping characteristics that most people are attracted to, which would kind of take it away from just a subjective characteristic into a more, well, maybe there's reasons for this, right?
	Like maybe people prefer this body type because it gives a signal for childbearing, or maybe people prefer this because it gives a signal for that.
	You know what I mean?
	So the purpose of the conversation, even in the rating system, the rating system is not in and of itself to tell you, you know, nope, it's not true.
	You're ugly.
	The point of the rating system is to make a determination of whether or not you and your scale for what is or is not attractive matches up with what you see yourself as.
	So that's all it is.
	Okay.
	I mean, it can still be something I don't want to participate in.
	Sure, it can.
	I'm not saying it can't.
	I'm just saying that the point of that conversation itself is to get at the root, you know, of this idea of why is it that people make these kind of judgment evaluations on each other based on their looks?
	And maybe that goes a little bit deeper than just because we're fucking mean, right?
	Maybe it's because there's some type of shared characteristics that we all enjoy when it comes to the opposite sex.
	Like, for instance, that would be the idea of tall, right?
	When most women report that they want to date men who are taller than them.
	Well, I mean, I guess that's subjective, right?
	Because it could be, well, I only want one two inches or six inches or I want one ten inches.
	But what's shared about it is they all want one taller.
	So then we get into, yeah, but why is that?
	What is the thing that is drawing them to taller men?
	What would be the idea behind that?
	And the more you talk to women who have that shared subjective characteristic that they're after, you can get towards the heart of these answers.
	And so I think you do.
	I think you're actually shutting yourself down for no good reason because the conversation itself is not meant to be offensive.
	It's meant to dive into this idea.
	Okay.
	And so often I see people shut down, and I think that they often do it because they have a negative self-image.
	And they're saying, I don't want to make the claim that I have a negative self-image.
	And it's like, yeah, I guess, but that's not really what the point of the question is to begin with.
	You know what I mean?
	Well, we're going to move it on, but we're going to get into your notes, Morgan.
	So you do describe yourself as a feminist.
	You said in your notes.
	And your notes here, are these things you wanted to bring up?
	I mean, they're just notes I took.
	Or just stuff that I've noticed.
	Yeah, notes for myself.
	Because you provided some, but if there are any others that we don't have that you wanted to bring up, we'd be happy to go into it.
	You said, please put me on the podcast.
	I'm watching the live stream right now and I want to pull my hair out.
	Was that the Charlie Kirk episode?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You said you're a flight attendant.
	Leave Chuck alone.
	He did not.
	You said that you're a flight attendant, big old feminist.
	Yeah.
	And you said, I promise I'll come in guns blazing.
	Yeah.
	Well, you can't rage quit if you're going to come in guns blazing, guns blazing.
	You got to stay till the very end.
	Do I have to?
	Pretty much.
	Anyways, you said women shouldn't be drafted because the Equal Rights Amendment still hasn't been passed.
	Exactly.
	And women aren't constitutionally, excuse me, equal to men.
	Yes.
	This is the stuff I wanted to talk about.
	Sure.
	So why don't we dive into that?
	So your position is women shouldn't be drafted.
	You're a feminist, though.
	I assume you believe in equality.
	Yes.
	So how do you reconcile being a feminist and believing in equality, but being in favor of inequality when it comes to selective service?
	Because the Equal Rights Amendment has not yet passed.
	So women are still not constitutionally equal to men.
	So for that to pass, if that passes, draft me daddy.
	I'm ready to go.
	So when you say women aren't constitutionally equal to men, and you mentioned the Equal Rights Amendment.
	What do you mean?
	The Equal Rights Amendment.
	Well, assume there's a panel here who has no idea what that is.
	Assume there's viewers here who have no idea what that is.
	The Equal Rights Amendment is actually.
	Well, let's have her answer.
	Wow, I didn't think you wouldn't know what the Equal Rights Amendment is.
	Did I say I just wanted to say that?
	No, it's just that you, it would be an amendment to the Constitution that you can't discriminate on the basis of sex.
	You mean the 19th Amendment?
	Yeah.
	No.
	No.
	No, it would be the ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment.
	You can't discriminate on the basis of the American.
	What is the 19th Amendment?
	I don't know what the 19th Amendment is.
	Do you want to tell me?
	Can you pull up the 19th Amendment so we can read it?
	And but so this amendment, it's not clear to me how, because you said, so currently women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	So I suppose where in the Constitution would it indicate or show that they're not equal to men?
	You have the 19th Amendment?
	Okay, pull it up.
	Right, the citizens of the United States to vote should not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
	Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
	Meaning, you're equal to men when it comes to voting.
	And if you're equal to men when it comes to voting, then that means that you can elect whatever politician you want to enforce your will, just like we can.
	Totally equal.
	So then why didn't the Equal Rights Amendment pass?
	Because it's not about equal rights.
	It's about redefining the word woman.
	It redefines the word woman from biological woman with XX chromosomes to anybody who wants to identify as a woman.
	It is a change in the very definition of what we just have all agreed as a woman.
	So this said, there can be no discrimination based upon sex.
	There's only two.
	Even if you think a person can, whatever they identify as, they are that thing.
	Even the advocates for transgenderism would not say that they're the sex of.
	They would not say that they're the sex of.
	So a transgender female is not going to say that they have female genitalia.
	So the descriptor here for sex would work across the board for every child.
	A transgender female wouldn't say that she has female genitalia.
	They would not say that they are females biologically.
	She.
	They would not say that they're biological.
	That's correct.
	They would say there's only two sexes.
	There's only two.
	There could only ever be two.
	One sex produces OVA with big, large gametes.
	The other one produces sperm, which is small gametes.
	Okay.
	Yeah, so there's only two.
	Because there's only two, there's only two reproductive pathways.
	Even the major transgender advocates do not say that there's more than two sexes.
	They say that there's hundreds of genders.
	Okay.
	But there's still only two sexes.
	So that amendment, the 19th Amendment, says based on sex, which would cover every human being, every human being who currently exists in the United States, not a one that that would not cover, cannot be discriminated against based on sex when it comes to voting.
	Did you read the Equal Rights Amendment?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so then how was this confusing?
	What do you mean?
	Like, if you read the bill, then you would realize that, like, the point of the ERA is not to amend the 19th Amendment, but to pass legislation to change the definition of woman.
	So if you read it, like...
	Yeah, I'm for that.
	Okay.
	But why is women getting drafted contingent on whether you change the definition of the press?
	I just like, you know, I don't understand why that's a like, why would that be a difficult thing to pass?
	Like if the ERA is not a thing.
	Well, that's two separate issues.
	Is it?
	But wasn't that a big topic that like Phyllis Schlafly was all about?
	Like if the ERA passes, women are going to be drafted.
	It would open the door to them being drafted, I suppose.
	So you're already, but you're.
	The thing is, is the epitome of the straw man now, right?
	To create the arguments against people who never made them.
	So I most certainly never made such an argument.
	Brian most certainly never made such an argument.
	The argument that we're making is very specific.
	Okay.
	The argument is that if men can be drafted, right, and they can be, and they're forced to sign up for selective service, and they are, or else there's huge penalties against them.
	Yeah.
	If you truly believed in egalitarianism, why is it that you would not demand the same thing from women?
	Because I don't think it's enough.
	I think that there needs to be more.
	I think that if it truly was equal, then the ERA should have passed no problem.
	And I think that would that have to do with women signing up, though, for the sex, the biological sex of female who's allowed to vote.
	Why is it that the biological sex of female?
	I think we're getting into a different topic.
	I don't think we are.
	Children donated 200.
	No, I just wanted to say that 2020 Scotus Opinion Bostock v. Clayton already prohibits discrimination on the basis of orientation and gender identity.
	Quit playing, wanna be a lawyer.
	But we don't even have to.
	We don't even have to get that far.
	So pull up the 19th again.
	The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States by any state on account of sex.
	If that is true, then no human being inside the United States is going to not be able to vote, period, based on a sexual characteristic, period.
	Okay.
	So in your opinion, hold on.
	So we can get into the Equal Rights Amendment component of this, but you said that women shouldn't be drafted because the Equal Rights Amendment still hasn't been passed and women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	That's the second claim there is the claim that I want to investigate.
	You said women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	Can you articulate how?
	Well, like I found in my notes, the ERA's equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the U.S. or by any state on the basis of sex.
	I'm actually willing to go with this.
	Yeah.
	I'm actually willing to engage with this.
	So you agree that this has to do with redefining what a woman is, right?
	Yeah.
	Gotcha.
	Do you think currently that transgender men have to sign up for selective service?
	So are they assigned male or female at birth?
	They're assigned female at birth.
	And they transition to male?
	Yeah, even before they reach 18.
	Before they reached 18?
	If they're fully transitioned, then yeah, I would think so.
	They don't.
	Okay.
	They do not have to sign up for the selective service.
	And that should change.
	Okay, so what you have just demonstrated is that even if we're talking about the trans agenda, that trans men are also still not equal with trans women.
	They're still not equal with trans women.
	Because they're men.
	Trans men are women.
	If that's true, right, then how come they don't have to sign up for selective service?
	They should have to because they're men.
	Okay, they should have to.
	Because they're men.
	So then shouldn't trans women trans women should what?
	Shouldn't trans women, right, shouldn't they be exempt under this?
	Trans women shouldn't have to sign up for the even though they're biologically males?
	No, trans women are women.
	Biologically male.
	Trans women are women.
	Yeah, but biologically they're males.
	Trans women are women.
	Yeah, but you're not saying anything.
	I don't.
	You're not saying anything?
	No, I am.
	I'm saying something.
	Biologically, whatever, they're women.
	Okay, got it.
	So what you're saying here is that you think that trans men who are born female should have to, hang on, should have to sign up for the draft, but that the ones who are assigned man at birth, assigned male at birth, they should be exempt from the draft.
	If they are transitioned to women, identify as women, yes.
	Why do they have to transition?
	Why couldn't they just identify?
	Then they're women.
	Whatever point they are, if they're a woman, then they're a woman.
	Then it's equal.
	Great.
	Then it's equal between all of it, right?
	Because in this case, then biological men, if they say they're women, they don't have to get drafted.
	Sure.
	Throw that equal rights amendment up there and we're all equal and draft us all.
	So I just want to make sure I get this right.
	Right now, you agree that nobody can be drafted.
	I mean, nobody can be barred from voting on the basis of sex.
	Right.
	Do you think there's a third sex?
	No.
	I think that there are women and men.
	Yeah, do you think there's a third sex?
	How many sexes do you think there are?
	I don't think that matters.
	I think it matters.
	How many sexes do you think there are?
	I think that this is like, do you know any transgender people?
	Yeah.
	How many sexes do you think there are?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Do you think that's a whole to their whether it's okay?
	Let's assume for a second that I don't think that transgender people don't understand that you can have a conversation about biological sex without going in and aliving themselves.
	I don't think.
	No, it's not about that.
	It's that you set like a precedent where, well, you set a precedent of like, you know, violence where my friends don't feel safe going to like their places of work.
	Yeah, but what would that have to do with whether they're equal or not?
	Well, when you're saying, like, when you have these arguments that, like, don't like trans women are women, trans men are men.
	Fine.
	And when you break that down, even if I say that, nobody's going to dispute that there's only two sexes.
	If there's only two sexes, the 19th Amendment says that nobody can be denied the right to vote via sex.
	Sure.
	So all those trans people can vote.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So then what's the inequality issue here?
	That's what I said.
	So draft them all.
	So then you think everybody should get drafted?
	Throw the Equal Rights Amendment up there.
	Because if everybody's equal, then there should be no problem.
	You know what?
	If there's no problem and if we don't, like, we should have it then.
	Why is it such a big deal?
	I think this word will sum this up perfectly.
	Okay.
	Perfectly.
	Redundancy.
	So women already have, at least it's my position, are constitutionally equal to men.
	So even if you're not going to be able to do that, what are you asking for?
	What do we not get that you think we should detail the autonomy?
	Okay, we'll get into that.
	We'll get into that.
	But okay, so it's my view, though, that you're saying, well, we don't have this bill that is named and called entitled the Equal Rights Amendment, ergo.
	We don't have equal rights because a bill that is titled the Equal Rights Amendment was not passed.
	But this bill, and I'm not super familiar with it.
	I'm not entirely sure if it is a redundancy.
	But the current state of affairs, the 19th Amendment, constitutionally women are equal, but you made the claim women aren't constitutionally equal.
	So the burden is on you to articulate how women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	And you cannot point to a bill just by virtue of the title of the bill, it not passing being evidence that women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	How is something called the Equal Rights Amendment not passing?
	You can, okay, the title of the bill.
	Hold on, the title of a bill is irrelevant.
	Do you think that North Korea is really a republic?
	Because it's called the Republic of North Korea.
	Okay.
	It's a communist dictatorship, but it is called the Republic of North Korea.
	Okay.
	So that must be a republic then.
	The Inflation Reduction Act only boosted inflation.
	Okay.
	I just.
	But okay, so the contents of a bill might oftentimes have nothing to do with the actual title.
	Okay.
	So you did make the claim, and women, that's separate from the Equal Rights Amendment, aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	So you're going to have to articulate how women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	I think that if they were, then the Equal Rights Amendment should have passed.
	No problem.
	That's all I have to say about the Equal Rights Amendment.
	That's it.
	That's all I have to say.
	I can't articulate more than that.
	That's my point.
	And then I also think that women would be able to have more bodily autonomy.
	Okay, so we can get into that.
	Would you vote so that men couldn't vote on women's bodily autonomy?
	Men couldn't vote?
	Like, I don't understand in the context of the public.
	Do you?
	It would be yes.
	You would vote so that men couldn't vote on women's context.
	Abortion.
	Yes, I would vote that way.
	Okay, right.
	So that's the same reason that we vote that you don't have abortions.
	But, okay, well, there you go.
	Just like that.
	If you would vote that we couldn't tell you that you couldn't, but in a democracy, then we could vote in a democracy to tell you you can't, see?
	Sure.
	Well, then I do think that's wrong.
	Well, okay, voting's wrong.
	No, I think that I should backtrack my statement because I think that I think that everybody should have bodily autonomy.
	So if you, I guess, if you want to vote for my right to not have control over my body, I do think that's unfair.
	Well, okay, hold on.
	You know, and I probably shouldn't vote for you, dude.
	Not going to allow you to weasel out of this.
	So you can try to bring up abortion, but that's a different conversation.
	So you stated and women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	I don't think we are.
	How?
	You don't think so?
	But that's what I'm asking.
	That's what I'm trying to do.
	I want to be convinced.
	Hold on, just let her answer.
	It's okay.
	I remain unconvinced.
	So you don't think we are.
	In what ways do you think you are not constitutionally equal?
	I mean, I told you that I didn't think we were because the ERA didn't pass.
	Oh, can you give us an example?
	That's the example I gave.
	Okay, so if you don't like that one, then that's fine.
	If you don't like it, then move on.
	But like a real-time example.
	I gave you abortion.
	Well, may I ask?
	Because she explained what the bill was, but you never gave your explanation to what this means.
	So I keep wanting to know what do you mean this bill?
	Like, what is it to you?
	Like, what was denied?
	The right for trans men to be trans women and all of us to be the same thing?
	Because that's how she explained it.
	Is that it's to universal, like all of us, to make trans women women.
	That's what this bill is?
	No, it is.
	I mean, like, the definition of feminism is, like, to me, well, not even to me.
	It's literally the belief that women and men should be allowed to have the same rights.
	Which we do.
	And I feel like the Equal Rights Amendment says that.
	But isn't the 19th just for voting?
	But what I'm asking, like, what does it mean?
	So why can't we have that for everything?
	If the 19th is just for voting, so actually, hang on.
	This is a great question.
	And I would like to answer your question.
	If you can name a single right, a single right that you think that this is not applicable to, meaning men have it and women don't, Mauliers.
	You say that women can't do abortions, neither can men.
	Okay.
	I'm trying to think.
	Do you mind if I have some time to think about it?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	So wouldn't men be not as equal by not having a say in abortion as a woman does?
	The man was there to make the movie.
	I mean, it's both of the...
	I think that's a...
	Right.
	I'm...
	I'm just asking questions.
	While she's thinking, while she's thinking.
	It's not a debate.
	I'm just asking a question.
	Pull up the scroll up in the sources, the viewer count.
	All right, guys, there's 10,000 people watching on YouTube.
	Wow, big.
	And almost $2,000 over there on Twitch.
	If you're watching on YouTube.
	Jai Vanik donated $200.
	Ask her how she feels about violence against women acts.
	Federal laws in the U.S. that increase penalties for violence against women but not men.
	Your thoughts?
	Are you going to be mad if I make a generalization?
	Nope.
	Men are more violent than women.
	It's not a generalization.
	That's a data point.
	Yeah, that's got you.
	One which I dispute, by the way.
	Like the IPV rates.
	Yeah, the one-directional IPV rates.
	Well, actually, really quick on that, I know it's kind of getting a little bit off topic.
	So when it comes to romantic relationships, what about this data point?
	So if we're looking at homosexual relationships, for example, so you have heterosexual relationships, gay men and lesbian women.
	They've actually found that, ooh, okay, hold on.
	It's okay.
	We can keep going.
	Okay.
	Okay, we're fine.
	We're fine.
	Sorry, guys, there's a little slip going.
	So gay men have the lowest incidence rate of domestic violence.
	And then next up, in terms of couplings, you have heterosexual relationships.
	And then the highest rate, the highest incidence rate of domestic violence is actually in lesbian relationships.
	So what are your takes on that?
	Like, how do you reconcile that?
	If men are more violent, if men are more violent.
	But removing men from the picture entirely when there's two women in a relationship together and two men in a relationship together, the rates among gay men having domestic violence in those relationships is the lowest compared to both heterosexual relationships and lesbian relationships, and it's the highest in lesbian relationships even compared to heterosexual and gay male relationships.
	I would almost argue that it's unreported among gay males.
	Wouldn't it also be unreported?
	It's not incorrect data point, like for lesbian women.
	I just think it's no, because I think that like women would be more likely to report something like that.
	And I think that inside of your list of fallacies, did you write down the argument from incredibility?
	No.
	You did not write down your argument.
	No, Purdue didn't have that one.
	Yeah, it's not really an argument to say, well, I can't demonstrate this, but I just think that X is probably.
	Sure, okay, that's fair.
	But I also don't think that equating what's happening in a relationship is the same as what men being more violent overall.
	But this was in context of this domestic violence.
	Is that what the law is about?
	The violence against women?
	Violence against women.
	So that's a domestic, that's a law?
	I believe it's about domestic violence.
	But don't you guys stand on the point that men are stronger than women?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That has nothing to do with that.
	Wouldn't that be a thing?
	Don't you want to protect women against the menu?
	Doesn't make you more violent just because you're stronger?
	I would think that.
	For instance, there's going to be women who are stronger than other women, right?
	Sure.
	Would you then infer that that would mean that women who are stronger than other women would just be more violent because they're stronger?
	No, but I think that there's a testosterone makes men more violent.
	Okay, but there's going to be higher rates of testosterone and stronger women than less strong women.
	Okay.
	So this is.
	Yeah, if they would have more testosterone, then they would be more violent.
	Yeah.
	Do you think that testosterone is only going.
	So your inference is that testosterone equals violence?
	I think that it can.
	Yeah, I think that's a good thing.
	Okay.
	So can estrogen.
	Estrogen causes.
	Estrogen's a bitch.
	Nick, really quick.
	So, okay, guys, really quick, before we get back into it, have you had some time to think about the what rights?
	No.
	So what rights do women have that men don't?
	I'll give you a bit more time to think about it.
	Nick, can you pull up the view count really quick, guys?
	There's 10,000 of you, about 10,000 of you watching on YouTube.
	1672 watching on Twitch.
	Go to twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow in the Prime sub if you have one.
	Twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one.
	It's been one minute since we last got a prime, so I think it might have been like rebugged since a minute ago.
	So if you have a prime sub, can you do a little test in the chat?
	And thank you.
	Oh, Brian is gross.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Appreciate it.
	Brian is gross.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Call me Kyle.
	Guys, twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one.
	If you're watching on YouTube, open up another tab.
	Watching on Twitch, just drop us a follow.
	Thank you guys.
	Appreciate it.
	And then we do have a super chat here from Matthew Sch.
	Sorry.
	Matthew Schreck.
	Oh, can you hide that?
	Yep.
	All right, Matthew Schreck, plain and simple.
	Are we equal or not?
	Should all people, men, women, trans, et cetera, be held up to the same standards and responsibilities?
	Thank you, Matthew Sheck.
	Are we equal or are we not?
	I will concede on the fact that I can't give you more evidence, but I don't believe that we are equal right now.
	So I apologize that I did not come more prepared.
	Well, you don't need to articulate every single way in which you believe women are unequal.
	I would like to hear maybe one or two, though.
	I don't know if that's too much of an ask.
	I don't think that we are just in like societal ways.
	But hold on.
	I don't know if this is considered a thing, is like a shifting the wheel post or Mom and Bailey.
	So what do you want?
	Because your original claim was not societally, it was rights.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So you said women aren't constitutionally equal to men.
	Yeah.
	And I think that's even different.
	I think that's a higher threshold.
	The 19th Amendment applies to something.
	Let me just finish.
	Let me just finish.
	I think aren't constitutionally equal to men is actually going to be a higher threshold for you to prove than just rights.
	But so I'm even willing to go down to just speaking about rights.
	So what rights do men have that we're going to be doing?
	Well, maybe we could talk about like constitutionally then because like I told you I don't have the rights.
	I'm not more prepared and I'm very sorry about that.
	Actually I shouldn't be sorry.
	I'm just not more prepared.
	But it's your claim.
	Okay.
	So I mean that's what I'm saying is like I don't have that information.
	That's a really massive claim to make.
	Men have more rights.
	I did not say that.
	I said they're not, men are not constituted women are not constitutionally equal to men.
	I believe that because the ERA is passed.
	You disagree with that point.
	But I've already tried to articulate that.
	Well, I think that's fair.
	What about the ERA?
	What about the ERA will make women equal to men?
	It passing.
	Yeah, but what about the line is that?
	Can I ask you a question?
	Wait, wait, can I ask you a question?
	If there was nothing in the bill and the title of the bill was purely Equal Rights Amendment and there's just nothing.
	Women are equal to men in the Constitution and that's all it's in.
	Yeah great, pass it.
	That's what I'm saying, but you're still not saying what you feel like.
	You're saying why it didn't pass, like why it was political, and the name does not mean that that is what is inside of it.
	That's what this person was trying to bring up in the super chat about the violence against women act actually not protecting women, it's just a name.
	If you're involved in politics, if you follow this for a long time, you know that they pass these bills and they put these bills up solely that so Democrats can look at you if you're a Republican and say, Republicans don't believe in equal rights for women, and then people believe it, okay, so don't believe it.
	If the issue is societal too, what is like just passing a bill gonna do?
	If it's like a societal norm issue, I think it just.
	I think it starts at those, like at those base levels.
	Yeah, but how does that change your day-to-day life and be aware of?
	I actually have a question on this.
	If the ERA was passed, what tangible changes would occur.
	I think.
	Isn't it true that, like if the ERA passed, Roe Versus Wade would have been protected more?
	So what does that have to do with rights between men and women?
	Isn't that right to bodily autonomy?
	Yeah, men have no reproductive rights, so it's not a it's.
	You can't make this comparison.
	Men don't have a right to an abortion, or they don't have a right to prevent women from getting I don't know.
	My dad had to sign off on my mom getting her tubes tied.
	This is a feminist trope I hear about.
	I don't know.
	It's not a trope, it actually happens.
	I don't know if there's actually any validity to doctors requiring a spouse to consent to these things, perhaps in years past, I don't.
	I have no idea if this is still More considerably harder to get your tubes tied than for a man to get into vasectomy.
	Hold on, my dad had to sign a paper.
	Hold on, hold on, wait.
	That has nothing to do with the consent of the spouse.
	Getting your tubes tied is a far more invasive procedure than a vasectomy.
	Start the hair.
	They do often ask about spouse.
	They do often ask children, and they do play that.
	I've heard stories from men all over the country that when they went in to get a vasectomy, the doctor demanded that they come in and do counseling first with their wife before they made the decision to have the vasectomy.
	I don't think that's correct.
	Well, right.
	So, this is the thing.
	I don't think that it's correct to say that your dad had to sign off on the tube tying either.
	I'm saying that it happened, but it shouldn't have.
	It shouldn't have happened.
	Yeah, I'm not sure that it did happen.
	If we're just using incredibility.
	If you're just going to call me a liar, then I can just go around the table and call y'all liars all night.
	Okay, well, so that's why we don't use an argument from incredibility.
	If you'd say to me, I don't think.
	What about an argument from experience?
	I don't think that that happens.
	If you say to me, I don't think that happens.
	What if it actually happened to me?
	If it actually happens to you, that's different.
	But it didn't actually happen to you.
	It happened to someone else.
	But for you to say, I just simply don't think that that's true, if that you can assert that, then I just assert it about everything you say.
	Yeah, but I just don't think that that's true.
	Yeah, but I just don't think that that's true.
	All right?
	That's why you don't make assertions or claims unless you can either logically demonstrate them, empirically demonstrate them, or in some way demonstrate them.
	So the evidence, would you like me to get the paperwork or something?
	That would be evidence.
	Okay.
	I have to move off of the tube tying thing then.
	But back to this.
	So back to this.
	So if the ERA was passed, what would be the sort of tangible results when it came to the equality that women could expect to receive that they don't currently have that you can't articulate?
	I think that I said that Roe versus Wade would have been more protected.
	That's not true.
	Well, then, like I said, this is why I told you about the bill.
	Chrissy, do you know if in the ERA there's anything in there that has anything to do with abortion rights?
	I think they're just referencing making abortion legal at a federal level.
	But Roe versus the level of the level of the legislation, that's not what Roe versus Wade is.
	That's what it is.
	Then, yes, abortion would be legal at a federal level.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	So, aside from abortion, which it's not clear to me if that has really anything to do with a comparative analysis of rights between men and women, can you give me anything else that would tangibly change if the ERA was passed for women?
	No.
	Okay.
	So then is that a checkmate?
	That's it, yeah.
	All right, Navy Darkstar, thank you for the gift of 10 jobs.
	Yeah, I'm still a little confused, I guess.
	But this is called an AFF.
	You know what?
	That's my own coined fallacy.
	It's called an argument from feelings.
	You know what?
	I can actually think of one.
	Isn't it a bleeding heart liberal?
	Well, I mean, look, I've debated with a lot of liberals and a lot of progressives.
	There's a lot of smart liberals.
	There's a lot of smart progressives who don't make arguments from their feelings.
	Okay.
	And they're brutal to have drag out debates with.
	They're super smart.
	They're really well-informed.
	That is not what this was.
	Okay.
	I can actually think of one right that men have that women don't, although this is geographically specific because in some jurisdictions it actually is allowed.
	But men can go out into public shirtless, and in some areas women can't.
	Aside from that, and again, it's jurisdiction-specific.
	In some municipalities and cities, women can go shirtless.
	Can't really think of really any right that men have that women don't.
	Okay.
	But no, that would even be a wrong example because that wouldn't be a right.
	That would just go to the federal government not saying whether or not people can walk around nude or not, leaving it up in the 10th Amendment to the states.
	So the states allow their municipalities to govern themselves.
	Some municipalities say that women can do this.
	Some don't.
	Still wouldn't have anything to do with the right.
	Well, in some municipalities, women wouldn't have the right.
	That's not a right, though.
	That's just ordinance, right?
	So in this case, it's left up to the states, but there's no rights which are being actually violated.
	But I mean, if it's pushed back to municipalities in the states, and overwhelmingly, most municipalities and jurisdictions preclude women from going topless, wouldn't it, I mean, effectively in practice?
	No, it would be like a stop sign law.
	It would be like, it would just be a law like this.
	It would be you got to wear shoes or no shirt, no service or something like that.
	It would be an ordinance.
	That would not be a right.
	Well, in any case.
	In other words, there's no right defined that men can walk around with their shirt off.
	There's no right definite that women cannot walk around with their shirt off.
	There's local ordinances which prevent this.
	These aren't inalienable rights.
	Right, it's not a right.
	There's no inalienable right to walk around nude, right?
	And further, just, I mean, are you familiar with the legal term de minimis?
	So it's such a, I would consider it a fairly minor, at least in the scale of what when people typically have conversations about rights, this one would occur to me to be.
	Who would care anyway?
	You think that if they wanted to pass a constitutional amendment that women could walk around topless, that any fucking men would object?
	No.
	Nobody's going to object to that.
	They're not objecting for that shit.
	And there's no women out there advocating for that.
	So it's like, even that would just be a really poor example, ultimately.
	We have Brian Rookard.
	Women are already protected.
	The 14th Amendment already provides equal protection.
	Married Women's Property Acts were passed in 1839 and then thereafter Equal Pay Act passed in 1963.
	Fair Housing Act prevents discrimination in housing on basis of sex.
	So this is like when you're thinking about immutable characteristics, basically the law at the constitutional level has been completely changed so that people with immutable characteristics are protected via those immutable characteristics.
	That'd be sex, that's race, all of that.
	And gender now, because of boat stock.
	Yeah, these are things that are unchanging.
	So, well, except maybe that one, but actually immutable, right?
	You can't change them.
	The Constitution has compensated for all of those.
	So nobody is, you're not allowed to.
	You can't say you can't vote because you're black.
	Can't say you can't vote because you're white.
	Can't say you can't vote because you're female.
	Can't say you can't vote because you're male.
	Can't tell you you can't own a gun because you're black.
	Can't tell you can't own a gun because you're white.
	Can't tell you you can't have freedom of speech because of these things.
	So all of these across the board, it's protected.
	Two chats here coming in.
	We have Giovanni C-based blonde blue shirt.
	Bonus points for not butchering your baby, God bless.
	All right.
	Thank you, Giovanni.
	I appreciate it.
	And then we do have SS Salwalf coming in.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, man, for the TTS, or not the TTS, the Stream Labs Message.
	Howdy, longtime listener, first time donator.
	Hey, thank you, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	Welcome, welcome.
	Why do all the trouble guests sit in that spot?
	Question for the panel.
	If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?
	Are you able to scoot into the table just a little bit?
	So, what's the question?
	Can I let me say this really quick?
	I have obviously bitten off more than I can chew.
	No, you're good.
	No, no.
	Oh, you're doing great.
	Don't worry about it.
	You're a legend.
	You're a legend.
	You came in, guns blazing.
	You're doing good.
	Yeah, I tried.
	No, I really do appreciate the opportunity to be here.
	Wait, we got to get through at least all your notes.
	Hold on, hold on.
	Just stay for it.
	We'll get through your notes.
	I will fast track.
	Can you at least fast track?
	Oh, yeah, I'm leaving the booze.
	That's for you guys.
	No, I really appreciate that.
	I feel like that's a reasonable contribution.
	Yeah, I appreciate that.
	Wait, let me at least fast track.
	No, I gotta go.
	You gotta go because.
	Can this be a respectful quit?
	Like, thank you for everything.
	Wait, wait, you can't just.
	I'm not letting me go.
	I'm not crying.
	I'm tired.
	That's why.
	Tired?
	Yeah, I've been up since like three in the morning.
	Okay, but at least, look, he provided a lot of notes.
	Tell you what.
	I'm getting emotional.
	Hold on.
	I will fast track.
	Listen, but at least hear the offer.
	You gotta at least hear the offer.
	I will fast track.
	I will fast track your notes.
	I will fast.
	You said it was a rage quit.
	It's not.
	I think it was a rage quit.
	Thank you so much.
	I think it was a rage quit.
	I think you can't defend your worldview.
	You can't defend your worldview.
	I think you're a coward, to be honest.
	I think it's cowardly for you to quit because you've been absolutely demolished by Andrew.
	But leave the booze.
	You did a great job, Andrew.
	Thank you.
	Have a nice day.
	Thanks.
	You're not going to defend all your other things here.
	When you become a conservative, she left the booze.
	Total.
	I mean, I typically wouldn't revert to.
	Oh, yeah.
	The notes would have been cool.
	Yeah.
	There was like 80 of them.
	80 pages of them reading girls.
	I like reading.
	Yeah, leave the notes.
	At least leave the notes so we can look at them.
	Look, I mean, she provided a lot of notes.
	Liberals get angry and get called out.
	I mean, this is, I mean, she said that women don't have equal rights under the Constitution using a different sense of the word constitution.
	It's a very weak constitution to not be able to have a conversation without just shutting down every single time.
	By the way, the TPUSA girl wrecked her worse than I did.
	What did you say?
	I know.
	Yeah, next, if I can give it to you over there.
	I don't understand the point of coming on the podcast if you know what you're doing.
	Gunsblazing is saying then you're just going to leave.
	She said she was coming in guns blazing.
	80 pages.
	Shut down multiple conversations the moment that she got a little bit outclassed conversationally.
	But can we look at the price?
	We couldn't talk about it.
	She took up a lot of space on that side of the table now that we're going to be able to do it.
	She didn't talk about anything.
	You can't rape yourself.
	A lot of anything, everything.
	Now there's space over time.
	Conversationally.
	Yeah, conversational.
	Yeah, conversational.
	You can definitely.
	Okay, so we're going to.
	Yeah, we will move you guys a little bit here.
	So just figure it out.
	I think, why don't we?
	I appreciate the tequila, though.
	Yeah, I think honestly, easiest thing, we'll just have you get out of your seat, you in the middle, and you'll just take that seat right there, I think.
	Actually, here, let me have you scoot over one, and then we'll put you in that seat.
	We'll do that.
	All right, sorry, guys, we're just playing musical chairs here.
	Guys, the only reason I pushed back and I wanted her to stay is she had a bunch of notes, other notes I wanted to get into.
	Just kind of unfortunate.
	Oh, by the way, guys, we are, I guess, we are gonna.
	Nick, you good back there?
	Nick?
	They're still dealing with her?
	Okay, I don't know.
	Is he gonna be okay?
	Yeah, that'll be okay.
	Yeah, that'll be fine.
	She had a lot of other.
	I mean, I can just read the notes really quick for those who are curious.
	I'm interested.
	We won't get into it since she's not here, but I'll just read them.
	Charlie Kirk keeps saying that's not relevant.
	She did say she'd love to take on this little uneducated turd, a.k.a. Charlie Kirk.
	Charlie Kirk is a friend of the podcast, by the way.
	Charlie Kirk.
	Rude.
	Rude.
	I will defend Charlie Kirk.
	AB Check.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	She also said, I also have a theory that every pro-life argument you can make can also be made for the outlawing of guns.
	That's ridiculous.
	I would have loved to have got it.
	That's why I was pushing hard for her to stay so we could have gotten into the pro-life arguments can be made about out loud.
	The life of a gun starts at conception.
	She comes together.
	Are they putting down the standard?
	When the little cult is in the womb.
	Anyways, when the little Smith and Wesson, the little baby Smith and Wesson, it's a fetal Smith and Wesson.
	It's not fully.
	Not developed here.
	It's not fully, it's not a fully developed.
	It can't survive outside the womb.
	Can we take this moment to pull up debate university?
	Yeah, we could do it really quick, guys.
	DebateUniversity.com.
	DebateUniversity.com.
	It is a program to teach you how to become a master debater.
	And there's 80 plus videos about six hours of instruction from the great Andrew Wilson and a couple other, we have a couple other instructors, so be sure to check it out.
	DebateUniversity.com.
	Also, let's get some of these chats going.
	And we'll get into everybody else's notes.
	I appreciate you guys being patient.
	But it was interesting.
	It was interesting to get into that.
	That was really good.
	Rip.
	Okay.
	One sec, guys.
	Let me just make sure I got everything.
	Oh, I need to still do that chat about Christianity, which shouldn't take too long.
	He did ask: if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?
	Just, well, first off, who's a Christian?
	Show of hands.
	Okay.
	And then for you two, if it were true, would you become a Christian?
	Well, if it were true, it wouldn't be a religious belief.
	It would be a science.
	So it wouldn't, I guess.
	Work.
	Okay, what about you?
	I'm not religious.
	But if it were true.
	Sure.
	You don't think there's history though in the Bible?
	There is.
	Okay.
	So that doesn't make, you don't think that that brings any kind of validity to Christianity?
	There's no way to prove nor disproof prove any spiritual belief.
	That's why it's a belief and not a science.
	You can argue about whether the Bible does have some historical backing, and sure, you can sit there and argue about that.
	But there is no definitive proof of a God or a heaven.
	That is why it's belief.
	So there's no way to prove nor dispolute.
	Yeah, it's about faith.
	It wouldn't be a religion otherwise.
	But why else have a moral high ground if there's nothing to hold you back from?
	To be a good person.
	But why?
	That there's no moral high.
	If we have no faith, if we have nothing that matters for what our actions are, which for me, I, as a Christian, I live by my morals and values based on what I believe that God would like me to.
	But if I remove that, then where are my morals and values stand?
	I don't need them.
	Right?
	I can be a murderer.
	I can do this because it doesn't matter because there's no consequences for me after.
	So that is just my view.
	So you would murder someone if you didn't get spiritual reproduction.
	I'm saying what's the point of having morals and values of anything if there's no.
	To be a good human being.
	But why?
	To be a good human being.
	Why do you need a reason to be a good person?
	What is a good person?
	Why do you need a God to tell you to be a good person?
	It's about how do you determine what is good?
	That's based on every person.
	My moral, what I believe is morally right is to be a good person.
	They can't hold anybody to a standard then.
	I agree.
	So everybody can just do what they want.
	If you want to be a serial killer, be a serial killer?
	I guess.
	If that's what you decide you want to do, that's not what I would do.
	You wouldn't hold a serial killer to account?
	The law would.
	You wouldn't?
	The law would.
	Yeah, but you wouldn't?
	Depends.
	She would just put a hex on you.
	I mean, what would it depend on?
	I don't know.
	I like the.
	There was a serial killer that was a woman that went around killing rapists.
	And I would say that that's a pretty great, morally gray area.
	Anyways, I do have to move things up.
	I just want to ask one last question.
	So is the good.
	Sorry, I know I can't really stock talking on that subject.
	I'm sorry.
	Is the good the good?
	What is good good?
	Depends on who you ask.
	I'm asking you.
	What I believe is good.
	Is it good?
	I personally try to put out as much good energy and good towards people.
	Yeah, is what you believe is good what is good?
	I'm kind of confused on what the question is.
	You believe you have a belief in what is good.
	Yeah.
	Is that good?
	To me, yes.
	So the good is the good.
	Yeah.
	So you just made a circular argument.
	I do have to move the good.
	The thing it is, is what the thing it is because it's the thing.
	Yeah, I don't really understand your argument.
	Finishing up with the RageQuits notes here, she said, I wish.
	Fucking coward.
	Okay.
	Fucking 31-year-old fucking starting to cry because her worldview is getting fucking shit pushed in.
	Okay.
	Ryan, I've been off more than I can chew.
	They sent you a note that said that I'm a raw feminist.
	And I was going to wreck the entire panel.
	And then within 30 minutes, I started breaking down and crying because a girl told me, you haven't even read the bill.
	You fucking idiot.
	It's rough out here, Brian.
	I like how you defined it without even hesitation.
	And she had her notes.
	I was really sad when she walked away, not because I wanted to hear more of her stupid arguments, but because I wanted to provide an opportunity for her to ask questions so that I could tell her.
	Because one of the biggest lies that feminists get sold right now is that Roe versus Wade outlawed abortion in America.
	You wouldn't believe how many women believe this.
	And it's a lie.
	It's a flat-out lie.
	What it does is it gives rights back to the states.
	So in my home state of Tennessee, we can outlaw abortions.
	And in California, right here, you can abort your baby when it's born.
	That is what undoing Roe versus Wade did.
	And I would just love to prove that point to somebody or have, not even prove it, but just have a conversation with her about it as opposed to her.
	Yeah, but it should have outlawed it at the federal level, period, for all states.
	No, and you can totally believe that, but that's not what Roe versus Wade did, right?
	I just want to say that.
	No, I agree with that.
	So I'll just get, I'll do, for those who are just tuning in, Lady RageQuit.
	She had a couple more notes.
	I'll just read them.
	We won't actually debate them because she's not here.
	But she said, most men actually hate women.
	I think that he brings on guys that have this conservative mindset and talk down to women because they're insecure men at their core.
	I'm Catholic.
	Oh my god.
	God.
	This is why I also want to get into the abortion conversation because she's a pro-abortion Catholic.
	I'm Catholic and it's pretty disgusting how some of these guys quote the Bible to fit whatever narrative they want.
	These non-denominational Christians think they're the end-all-be-all because they can quote the Bible, but they wouldn't last an hour in a Catholic church.
	They literally cannot take our communion.
	The Old Testament is an equivalent to fairy tales.
	None of them are real.
	I was hoping.
	I'm not going to get to that because I'm Eastern Orthodox and I can't take their communion.
	They were meant to teach caution to people.
	The golden rule is do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
	And I don't think any of these men act that way.
	She also said, I had an ex-poop on my hotel room floor when I was taking a shower.
	How is that applicable?
	Come on, I'm finally heard that story.
	That's what I came on forever for.
	That was the other thing.
	There was a lot in there, though.
	I mean, it sounds like a very man-hating.
	Yeah.
	Very man-hating.
	Yeah.
	Well, she said most men actually hate women, but I was just confused about the whole like, I'm a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, but also pro-choice.
	There's a lot of pro-choice Catholics.
	Yeah, I'm Catholic and I'm pro-choice.
	I'm not like super religious, but then again, I'm also not like, I don't know, I think that there's like a limit.
	I think both parties should have to agree for abortion, personally.
	Now, the dogma of the church does not support that.
	So I can already hear in my head the raging, sheething Catholic demands on both the Crucible and whatever podcast going, no, we don't, Andrew.
	Listen, the dogma does not support it.
	Not saying the Catholic dogma supports it.
	Clearly doesn't.
	I'm just saying there's a lot of people who identify as being Catholics who are baptized into the church who support abortion.
	You can't argue with me there because it's true.
	Yeah.
	But doesn't it.
	Joan FD donated $200.
	The flight attendant is such in bad faith.
	I am reading the online instant comments and I agree with a lot of them that she is enjoying.
	Just want to be argumentative with no substance.
	Yo, Joanne.
	Joan?
	Joan, Joanne?
	Thank you.
	Appreciate that.
	TTS.
	Thank you.
	We won't linger too long on that specific topic.
	I would like to ask about.
	Well, maybe we can't, but I'd like to ask how you can be pro-choice and Catholic, though.
	We saw that.
	So is all that devil's lettuce?
	A little bit, yeah.
	All that devil's lettuce going.
	A little bit of devil's lettuce going.
	I'm pro-choice, meaning like there's an exception.
	Like if the woman's going to die from giving birth or something extreme like that, I'm not like, oh.
	Yeah, that's not an abortion.
	That's medically necessary.
	An entropic pregnancy would be a different category.
	But then again, I also think that there's a lot of problems with like the foster care system.
	And so, I don't know.
	I know.
	See, I see both sides as the problem.
	May I speak to that?
	Okay, so I gave a baby away.
	I'm actually in California visiting the child I gave away three years ago because I have a 13-year-old daughter.
	So obviously she was an old enough child to realize that I was pregnant whilst I was pregnant.
	And the thing that I didn't realize until I've had so many conversations, and you did.
	Jaivanik donated $200.
	It is a core tenant of Catholicism that you cannot be pro-abortion.
	I know.
	It is mandatory that you are excommunicated if you get one knowing that the penalty is excommunication.
	GTFO.
	Well, I personally wouldn't have an abortion because I wouldn't put myself in that situation to have a baby if I wasn't ready to have a baby and able to take care of a baby.
	But I think that there are certain circumstances.
	For example, we're not supposed to talk about it, but.
	Like in the circumstances of SA.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Let me ask you a question.
	So this is.
	I'm going to do.
	I hate doing this on behalf of big hat Catholics, but I'm going to do it anyway, okay?
	The Catholic dogma supports that life begins at conception.
	If you were to get SA'd horribly and then you went home to your already existing child and killed your already existing child, would that be justified?
	No.
	Why?
	See, that's.
	Hang on.
	Why?
	Because the child, I don't necessarily believe.
	I don't know.
	You got me there.
	Okay.
	I'll give that to you.
	That is a wildly different comparison.
	Is it?
	There's still other situations.
	Let's find out if the logic is the same in both cases.
	Wait, hang on.
	Let me ask the question to you.
	Assume for a second you believed life began at conception.
	Okay.
	If you were SA'd, could you go home and could you kill one of your children who was already born?
	Asking a woman to go through the trauma of giving birth to a baby that she was SA'd and going home and killing a child is a completely different topic.
	Yeah, so anyway, so back to my before we get to the obfuscation of nonsense, let's get into the actual question.
	Would you be justified if you believed life began at conception?
	This is your core belief.
	It begins at conception.
	Okay.
	If you were SA'd, could you go home and kill one of your children because of the trauma of the SA?
	Or would you be held responsible for that?
	You legally be held responsible.
	That's right.
	Well, and morally held responsible.
	So what is the distinction between that life and this life?
	Again, asking a woman to carry a child to term with her essayers child to term is considerably different than her going home and killing a child that she has no previous trauma with.
	If you start to have the conception of life, if it's justified for you to kill life, exit the womb because it's life.
	This is your belief.
	Then how would it be justified for you to kill it in the womb if this is your belief?
	Well, I don't believe in life at conception.
	I understand, which is why I gave you the caveat.
	If you believed X, if you believe that life begins at conception, what would be the distinction between killing it in the womb and killing it exit the womb?
	Again, the only thing that I would say is the trauma because you don't prior trauma with that child.
	But then if it was based on trauma, then why couldn't you then do it based on this same trauma to somebody who was already born?
	That makes no sense.
	If trauma is the justification for the killing of the life, then why couldn't you do it to somebody else?
	Because that child isn't causing you trauma.
	The child that's already home is not causing you trauma.
	Going home to a child after you got SA'd is causing trauma.
	Giving birth to someone.
	So you go home and your child looks just like your essayer.
	Even though they weren't born with them, they look just like him and it's causing you trauma.
	Are you justified in taking that child's life?
	No.
	Why?
	Because I believe that that is a human life.
	I don't believe.
	But if you believed that it was at conception a human life.
	Yeah, I understand.
	How could you reconcile these two positions?
	I understand why people are pro-life.
	However, I disagree on concept.
	Yeah, okay, I get it.
	I'm not talking about your belief.
	I'm saying a Catholic believes life begins at conception.
	That is a human life at conception.
	If you believe it's a human life at conception, how can you make an exception for SA?
	If you were SA'd and had trauma from that, you could not then go home and kill somebody who was not in your womb.
	What would be the distinction there?
	I just think it's a more nuanced topic.
	Yeah, I know, but can you answer to my question?
	And then we'll get into your worldview.
	Okay, let me put myself, so I'm a Catholic.
	I obviously wouldn't kill the baby because it's against your beliefs.
	Right, it wouldn't make any sense.
	It wouldn't make any sense to do.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	From your belief system.
	I understand that.
	I do think it is a different conversation.
	It's kind of comparing apples to the other.
	No, it's not.
	And I'll tell you why.
	Even from your worldview, it's not comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges.
	It would be comparing apples to apples.
	The idea here is trauma is the justification for the elimination of the pregnancy.
	Right.
	You give it a further justification, and you say, because it's also not a life.
	Okay, I can concede that you believe that.
	From the Catholic belief, though, they're saying the only justification can be trauma because they believe at conception this is a human life.
	So trauma is our only justification for the elimination of the life.
	So then why couldn't you do that outside of the womb?
	That makes no sense to me.
	It's just different.
	I have a question that might actually change my view.
	Okay.
	Does a fetus, like no matter how?
	Fetus means baby.
	Yeah, well, like, when it's in the womb, you know, no matter how long, like, do they, does the baby feel the abortion?
	You're talking about the gestation?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, like, do they feel it's a bad thing?
	It's actually one of the largest things I've ever had to go through and like witness.
	I didn't have an abortion.
	I said that really wrong.
	But when I was your age, I had the same position as you.
	Like, of course, I'm conservative, so therefore I'm like somewhat libertarian, and therefore I believe the government should not be involved in what I do with myself or my body, right?
	It's like actually a really normal line to come through.
	But yes, that is why heartbeat bills are wildly important.
	It's all across the nation.
	They're being passed because at a heartbeat, that is when the baby can feel pain.
	It's when they have a breathing heartbeat.
	I'm not entirely sure if they can feel it before the six weeks, but I am fully aware that I would have to say that.
	If it was proven that they can feel it before the six weeks, then I would.
	Let us assume for a second that they couldn't feel shit and that you had a quadriplegic couldn't feel shit.
	Grid one motorsports donated $200.01.
	Feminists always use the talking point, ignoring the fact that over two out of three pregnancies that result of SA are carried to birth.
	Less than 0.01% of 01% cases is the worst justification for murder.
	Yeah, perhaps perhaps Gruth.
	He's a brave and a decent man.
	He's a pioneer.
	A little pushback to you is that regardless of how few there are, that is the justification which needs to be contended with.
	So even in this case, when you say, if it couldn't feel pain before X day, what if the kid who you then went home and killed based upon the trauma that you received external to the kid also couldn't feel pain for some reason?
	Maybe they had no nerve endings.
	Or maybe someone's in a coma.
	Yeah, something like this.
	I just feel like it's different since that, like, you know, they already have like life experience.
	Why would the wait a second?
	Why would that be the determiner?
	Why would it make life more valuable because you've had more time to experience it?
	I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	See, this is what I'm saying.
	Like, I'm kind of on the fence with it.
	Well, how do we get you off the fence?
	What do I need to do to get you off the fence and on this side?
	Can I try something?
	Something that really changed my mind on this was a lot of black men will say that they feel the police are racist towards them or they feel the police are biased against them.
	Sorry.
	And when you actually dig into the data, like if you go to the Washington Post and you dig into the data, we as a country feel that way.
	And I think that's a general sentiment that even left right or center, you have felt that way in general based on the propaganda or the media that you consume.
	At the end of the day, if you go and you look at the statistics of unarmed black men who are shot by the police in, let's see, 2023, it was 10.
	And yet that warrants an entire health crisis, according to Duke University.
	And so sometimes there are things that we may not feel, or we as a society go, oh, you know, I really feel that way, or I understand it that way.
	But then you look at the data and it is not that way.
	And for me, that was how the pro-abortion to pro-life movement was for me, where I was just like, you know what?
	At a certain point, it does defy the way you feel.
	It is just logic.
	Sorry if I didn't speak close enough to the mic on that.
	I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
	Okay, talking about baseline emotion.
	Did I not make that?
	Was that not clear?
	Yeah, I think.
	Are you saying that because people have emotional responses based on societal programming?
	Is that what you're saying?
	The pagan donated $200.
	To the pro-choice advocates on the panel, how do you say with one side of your mouth woman's rights, but you're taking that right away from the female within womb?
	I need to do a little shifting.
	Thank you, Pagan.
	Appreciate it.
	I need to do a little shifting here when it comes to the seating.
	Is it possible for you to scoot in, but like scoot into the table, scoot into the table?
	You guys are a little far away from the mics.
	Can I have you scoot your mic to the very edge of the table?
	Yeah.
	And then tilt your mic down a little bit.
	Like that?
	Yeah, that's good.
	I'm just trying to get things a little fixed here.
	Sorry, guys.
	We moved, we did some arrangement after the guns blazing feminist left crying.
	So, guns weren't blazing very much.
	Not really.
	Let me do a couple chats here.
	She came in, I is crying, not guns blazing.
	Water log is.
	Nathaniel Cook, nope, Ryan, and some stroking out here.
	Municipalities, women have the right to sit at public parks alone on the bench, where men are banned from doing so.
	Women have rights that men do not.
	If we use that logic, is that actually the case that men are banned?
	That's right.
	There's laws that you can't shoot jackrabbits from trolley carts, dude.
	There's all sorts of bizarre laws in all sorts of municipalities and small towns all across the United States that have nothing to do with what are considered inalienable rights.
	That is an intriguing one, though, if there is in some places men are.
	I'd have to investigate that.
	There's probably laws on the book in some of these towns that men have to come in and tip their hat to women and not the other way around.
	It just like women used to have to be in certain places to breastfeed.
	I mean, it just yeah, we have Billiam the Mars Humpty Dumpty's logic.
	Had a great fall, Humpty Dumpty wobbled out in a ball.
	Okay, Billiam.
	All right.
	Thank you for the super chat.
	Appreciate it, man.
	If you guys want, get some super chats in.
	Oh, and we do have G.R. Gracie here.
	At a base level, believing in a God, a higher power, implies all of us are connected.
	You having abortion affects all of us.
	How can you be upset at the person fighting for your child's life?
	I'm not upset at that.
	I don't understand the question.
	Yeah.
	Gracie, you want to parse that out a little better for the panelists?
	It sounds like he's trying to ask: why do people get upset when people fight against abortion?
	Like, what?
	Because you hear that a lot.
	Like, people ask, why do you care if I abort my baby?
	It has nothing to do with my body, my rights.
	But it does because of a societal standpoint.
	Yeah, sure.
	Anyways, I'll move this on.
	I guess the final thing from that girl who left, she wanted to talk about women's rights, ERA, trans rights, weaponized Christianity, Project 2025, internment camps, communication theory, and logical fallacies and arguments.
	Parentheses, straw man theory in particular, Andrew's favorite.
	Okay.
	You know, she came with a lot of things she wanted to talk about, but when she showed up to the gun show, the showdown, I don't know.
	It's not the gun show, that's for sure.
	Yeah, the okay.
	All the complex topics, and then you ask one to ten, and it's over.
	But you're not even thinking about her therapist.
	What's wrong with you?
	Not even thinking about her poor therapist.
	It would have undone years.
	How many years of therapy do you think she's going to need because of tonight?
	Ten, at least.
	She's probably on the phone with them right now.
	She should just stop going.
	How many years of therapy are we going to need?
	Because of tonight.
	I'm going to need a lot of therapy, I think.
	Anyways, getting into some other show notes here.
	So, we have Belle.
	Speaking of hexes, so you're a witch.
	Yeah.
	You're a witch.
	Yes.
	We say a Catholic, too, right?
	No.
	No, okay, I thought you said exactly.
	I grew up Lutheran.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, she's Texas.
	Wait, just curious, are your parents still together or are they separate?
	They're separate.
	Separate?
	Separate.
	My dad's more atheist, I guess.
	Yeah, it was more my mom.
	Now, there's a couple things here.
	You have quite a few things on your TikTok.
	We don't have, there's so many, I didn't even bother looking at it.
	I post a lot.
	It's a lot of different things.
	We might go through the TikTok a little bit later, but apparently you hexed, you did a baneful hex.
	Well, it's just a hex.
	So baneful is just terminology for baneful.
	What is baneful?
	That's kind of like negative.
	Can I?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So it used to be called black versus white magic, but that brought up a lot of racial problems.
	So that's why we don't say it anymore.
	So baneful is just in reference to anything that's been caused by.
	It doesn't have anything to do with race.
	It does, because a lot of people of color's spiritual practices do get demonized often in the witchcraft community.
	It's like a really big, yeah, yeah, voodoo, hoodoo.
	And so when people were referring to black magic, they were primarily targeting people of color.
	And so that's why just witchcraft in general.
	But weren't they primarily practicing black magic?
	Yeah, but magic was considered evil.
	White magic was considered good.
	And that just gets into the semantics of race.
	Mike Davis.
	That's why we don't use it.
	Don't understand that.
	It's still very much used.
	Keeps simple.
	Any woman outside the kitchen is a woman escaped from her natural habitat.
	Just a fact.
	The furthest they can wander is around the home, one step out and shoot to kill.
	Wait till he hears about kitchen.
	And that's why Mike Davis is single and at home.
	With his mother.
	Yeah, so.
	Oh, shit.
	Mike.
	Baneful damage.
	That's Mike Davis, by the way.
	He's a troll.
	He's a resident troll.
	And he's probably single.
	Mike Davis, are you single or how many girlfriends do you have?
	Mike Davis, I think he's kind of like a stud.
	He's a stud.
	He's got like a bunch of girls, I think.
	He'd like polyamorous.
	He's got a roster, I think.
	No, so you said you hexed someone and they went bald and developed schizophrenia.
	And are you happy about that?
	Yeah, that was also an abusive relationship.
	I've gotten into, I've been in two abusive relationships.
	Just two?
	Yeah.
	Or more.
	Just two.
	They're pretty primary.
	That one was a two-year-long.
	We lived together.
	It was really bad.
	He threw oranges at me.
	He would just throw pelt oranges at me.
	I'm kidding.
	He played League of Legends all the time, scream.
	I can't even make that shit up.
	He would throw oranges at me.
	Like a store-bought or like they grew in the city.
	Like the cubies.
	And he would throw them.
	So you know how hard you have to throw an orange at someone to leave a bruise?
	You have to throw angles.
	Oranges are probably hard.
	You're supposed to hit people with oranges because it didn't leave bruises.
	Yeah.
	Well, it left a big bruise.
	He was doing that.
	It was a whole thing.
	I don't want to get into it because I don't want to.
	Is it wrong to ask somebody like, what did you do?
	Is that wrong?
	I was thinking the same thing.
	Like, what did you do to do that?
	It's not wrong to ask.
	It's like a whole bag of oranges.
	So you can have horrible things conducted upon you by other people and that are fucking terrible and that may not have been merited by specific behavior, but that does not mean that you yourself are a saint in the entirety of the relationship.
	I think it's totally fair to ask a person if they brought angst to the relationship or problems of their own, even if it didn't merit the response.
	Yeah, I would say from the dynamic from the beginning, I didn't want to be in a relationship with him and he continuously pushed it.
	I was in a very, very, like, I had very low self-esteem at the point.
	I was not in a good place mentally.
	And he was love-bombing me, and I knew he was love-bombing me, but I honestly accepted it and still went along with the relationship because it felt good.
	I was living in a really toxic living situation.
	I got randomly roomed with this girl who I don't think I can actually say it, a Yahtzee.
	I can't say exactly, but it was someone who was like putting it was a really toxic living situation.
	So I had to pick between living with someone with really crazy beliefs or living with a boyfriend that I was dating for about two months.
	So I moved in with him, and when I moved in, that's when the behavior started to rapidly shift and he changed pretty drastically overnight.
	It was pretty drastic.
	And of course, I'm not going to sit here and be like, oh, I was never toxic.
	I was never a problem.
	Because reactive abuse is like a very, very common thing.
	And so I can agree with that.
	I've been in a similar situation with that one.
	I have a switch of a flip.
	I got, he put, he pushed me because I usually don't hex people for personal reasons.
	I've only hexed three people in my life for personal reasons, and they pushed me to the brink.
	However, in each of these instances, it was never solely about me.
	So the first guy I hexed, I didn't hex him for about two years after that whole situation.
	I hexed him because I had a friend reach out to me and tell me that he did the same thing to her in the bathroom.
	Can you walk me through what you do for a hex?
	Okay, so I basically take a photo.
	I do usually a reading to pick pinpoint their weaknesses.
	Everyone has different weaknesses.
	There's areas where you're going to excel at, and there's areas where you're naturally not going to be as excelled at.
	So I usually target those weaknesses.
	Typically, I add specific herbs, specific broken broken glass is like a big thing, rusted nails, really nasty ingredients.
	Then I light a candle and I put my energy towards it.
	The energy you put towards it is really the biggest part of the whole situation.
	And then you could get the same results absent any ingredients, right?
	No, not necessarily.
	If you have a love spell and then you're using love spell ingredients, it's not going to correspond, so it's not going to be as effective.
	Yeah, but you don't need anything, right?
	You could cast a spell just by projecting your will.
	Yeah, there's part of it.
	A powerful form of magic?
	I would say using the correct...
	The round meatball donated $200.
	Who needs more therapy?
	Banshee or Max Raybow?
	Who?
	I think I'm the Banshee.
	Because isn't that a terminology for which?
	So I got to ask you a question.
	Wait, what's the question?
	Real Mr. Meepal.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Good to see you in the chat.
	Yo, can you, Mr. Meepal?
	Can you send me a DM on Instagram?
	Okay, go ahead.
	So you have no problem affecting other people's wills, obviously.
	When you say, do you believe in the idea of good and evil, bad and good?
	To a certain extent, I believe in something called comeuppance.
	So it's kind of what, yeah.
	When people talk about karma, karma is actually what happens in the next life.
	Comeuppance is about what happens in this life.
	So, for example, if you steal something for $20, usually something of $20 or less value might go missing from your house.
	That's like a sign of comeuppance, instant karma, as you will.
	So for every negative thing I do, I do try to put positive action out there as well.
	However, I personally don't view hexing in a really atrocious person as a negative for me personally.
	Do you believe that slavery is evil?
	Yes.
	Why?
	Because it's taking away someone's free will.
	So it affects their will.
	Yeah.
	How does your hexes not affect the will?
	It helps put the will back into the power of a victim.
	I bring power back to victims.
	How are you not affecting other people's will if your idea of slavery is that you're containing will?
	I don't view abusers as people.
	I don't view rapists as people.
	I believe that.
	So then would it be okay to enslave them?
	Well, I don't know.
	I'm not going to sit here and talk about slavery because slavery doesn't have an impact on.
	Yeah, I think we are because I need an entailment here.
	The entailment here is that I don't consider them people.
	And as long as I don't consider you a person, why would it be a problem to enslave you then?
	Because I'm not enslaving people.
	I'm not casting people.
	I thought you're a spell.
	I'm casting them.
	Forgive me.
	I'm sorry.
	You said that slavery, when I asked you what that meant, would be to hold someone against their will.
	There's a lot of things wrong with slavery.
	I don't think I need to sit here and say what's wrong with slavery.
	Do we really want to get into it?
	Yeah, I really want to get into it.
	What's wrong with it from your worldview?
	From slavery?
	Yeah.
	Considering the fact that it rips families apart, considering the fact what they do to slavery.
	Yeah, but that's all a side effect of containing someone against their will, right?
	There's a lot more to it, though.
	No, it's really just that.
	There's a lot more to it.
	What else is there?
	Holding a spiritual belief and owning slaves are not comparable.
	Oh, no, they're totally comparable if the logic's the same.
	So let's start with this.
	What is a slave itself?
	Forget ripping, because some slaves are not going to have their family ripped apart, none of that.
	What is a slave?
	Someone who is indentured to another person.
	They don't have to be indentured?
	They.
	It's just somebody controlling somebody else's will against their will, right?
	That's all slave is, isn't it?
	100%, yeah.
	What do you mean?
	What else is that slave?
	Give me a better definition.
	I'm not holding someone under my will forever.
	All I'm doing is I'm pushing what's already coming to you.
	So then it's okay to hold people as slaves temporarily?
	No, I would not.
	Well, then that argument makes no sense that you, well, I only hold their will temporarily.
	That's the same as me saying I hold a slave temporarily.
	I'm not putting away their will.
	I'm pushing slave.
	Wait, I'm sorry.
	Was it your ex's will to get a broken back and fall down three stories?
	It was the universe's.
	But not his.
	It was the universe.
	And did you affect the universe?
	Yeah, I would say so.
	So then if you affected the universe, then you contained his will.
	How's that not slavery?
	I personally believe if someone punched you in the face and you punched them back.
	That's not slavery?
	No, because slavery is not comparable.
	This is comparable.
	No, it's not a containment slavery.
	If I punch you in the face and you punch me back.
	No, that's a response to will.
	Right, so I responded to him.
	I'm not containing his will.
	You're containing the will.
	I took my power back.
	Right, by containing somebody else's will.
	Call it whatever you want.
	Call it slavery.
	How is it not slavery?
	How is witchcraft not slavery?
	Yeah, how is it not slavery to affect a person's will and get them to do things they ordinarily would not do?
	I guess you could call it that.
	It's manipulation of energy.
	Okay.
	And it's more nuanced than that, though.
	I don't think it is.
	If you either put a hex on you, would you consider that?
	It wouldn't land.
	How do you land?
	If it did, because it's based.
	Okay.
	Let's pretend it did.
	It's not going to land.
	I have people who try to hex me all the time.
	I'm just asking a question.
	I'm trying to get clarity because I don't.
	I'm just going to get clarity.
	Just like what's your question?
	Just what the difference is.
	Like, where you feel it would be okay to put a hex on somebody else and it's totally okay.
	But if somebody were to put that one on you, how would you feel about it?
	That's their decision.
	It happens to me so often that it really doesn't bother me.
	I have my protection set up and I believe if I genuinely did something to harm someone to cause them out, I think you need to understand the amount of anger, the amount of pain that a victim has to go to to the point where they want to go take spiritual repercussions.
	I've been assaulted as human beings.
	had been assaulted at one point.
	So you are angry.
	So I now understand the anger.
	Oh, of course.
	It's a way for me that I was able to take my power back after it was taken away from me.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So I have a question on this because you're trying to get justice for victims.
	Do you think in the justice system people are falsely accused?
	That is a factor, but it is considerably lower than I think.
	I don't think it's a big factor.
	You don't think it's a big factor?
	No, I would say majority of victims are not false reporting.
	I would say not false accusations over to you.
	I'll even grant that the majority of victims are not making false accusations.
	There's an overwhelming amount of women who don't even report what's happening to them.
	Okay, so will you concede that women do make false accusations?
	Yes, it does happen.
	And it's actually in this specific crime you're talking about, it's actually there's higher incidence of false accusations of this sort of crime where people have sort of misunderstandings of what is and what isn't.
	But so you said you only do this to abusers.
	How would you come to the determination that someone's actually guilty?
	That's a really great question.
	Or they just say he abused me and you just believe it in all instances?
	I have my spell set up so anything that you put out returns back to you times three.
	So if I hex someone and they didn't do anything wrong, it's not going to impact them.
	It's not going to hit them.
	I don't understand how that, there's like a, there's like an asterisk.
	There's an asterisk on your hexes.
	Yes, so you write a petition.
	A petition is a big part of it.
	You write petition specifically what you want to happen.
	And in my personal petition, how I personally practice, I put in the petition that if the person is not doing anything, anything that they're putting out, they're going to get back times three.
	So if they're not doing anything.
	No, no, go ahead.
	You go ahead.
	So if I asked you, for example, to put a hex on somebody and I tell you that they abused me, but they didn't, like, the hex wouldn't work.
	No.
	Not if you went to me.
	If you went to a different practitioner, maybe if they did it differently, but that's personally how I do mine.
	Interesting.
	Yeah.
	Fair enough.
	It depends on who you ask.
	Fair enough.
	But I would, I do believe the victim overall because I do think a vast majority of the people coming to me are not falsely accusing.
	I would assume most people who are going out of their way to pay for a service done, there probably is a reason there.
	I have an interesting question because you like to say a lot of things that are very nuanced.
	Have you ever stopped to think that a lot of abusers are also victims?
	And that because, you know, they, so where's the cycle end?
	Like, if you're saying I'm coming after you because you abused me, he abused you because of someone who abused, like, he is also a victim.
	Like, I don't know the situation, but like in a lot of situations, people hurt because they're hurt.
	Yeah.
	So why?
	Where's the justification of saying now I'm just going to push more hurt onto you here's how you are now acting out of hurt?
	Like where's the kindness?
	Where's the love?
	Where's the stop of it?
	Where does it end?
	More focused on getting justice, whatever way that see fit.
	And then there would be no end.
	So therefore, there's never going to be an end to violence.
	There's never going to be an end to abuse.
	Because that's just not how the world works.
	I really hate that the world works like that, but it's never going to be like that.
	The world is never going to be equal.
	It is never going to be.
	Wait, so to be clear, with these hexes, and there's, let's assume this person is being falsely accused and they're innocent.
	So you cast the hex, but so the hex doesn't work if they're innocent?
	Based on how I have mine set up.
	I'm a little confused by that.
	I mean.
	Well, you don't have any really knowledge of witchcraft.
	I have zero knowledge.
	Yeah.
	So it's kind of like that.
	I'm not trying to figure out.
	Yeah, so basically, it's like you write a fine print, if that makes sense.
	You write a contract.
	It's kind of the same thing as like a clause for marriage.
	We won't a prenup, right?
	You don't get 50% unless someone cheats.
	So it's kind of the same.
	It's like a prenup, I guess.
	I write prenups for my spells, if that makes sense.
	I can put it in that terminology, and I think that'll make more sense to everyone on the panel.
	We have Dane's wife, JC Dugard, 11-year-old kidnapped, espied for 18 years, has two children during captivity, rescued when children 14 and 11 couldn't abort because of captivity.
	Can she unlive those children or why not?
	No, and I also would like to say that I think my mind has changed a bit since hearing your argument.
	Okay.
	And also, if the arguments like that make sense.
	I never thought about it like that.
	Nick, do you mean this camera?
	Yeah.
	On my side?
	Yeah, no, that would be wrong.
	Okay, all right.
	Okay, then we have Giovanni C. Which girl says her motivation is justice, but also states her system is set up to repay wrongs done to her three times as much.
	Is that justice?
	That's an interesting question.
	It follows the law of three, which some which people practice, some people don't.
	Is there something in the Bible, sevenfold vengeance?
	Was pulled off the movie The Craft.
	Yeah, there is a lot.
	There actually is a lot of witchcraft in the Bible.
	There actually are a lot of witches that identify sevenfold vengeance that's in the Bible.
	I think it has to do with Kane.
	I don't, anyways, that's kind of besides the point.
	But is it justice, though, really quick, to get three times?
	So like I for an eye, but three eyes, I guess, instead of for yeah, I just have that set.
	I just work with the number three.
	I just feel very called to it, so that's what I do.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And then something about, I saw one of the TikToks start a roster.
	Something about hexing a roster.
	Wait.
	Oh, I don't hex rosters.
	The times three things.
	So if somebody kills a member of your family, right, then what would be the times three back?
	If someone killed a member of my family, I'm taking out their entire family.
	But I ride for the people I love.
	And that's justice.
	For me.
	I ride.
	I'm innocent.
	I ride for the people I love.
	Wait, so hold on.
	Let me ask you.
	That'll have to die for your revenge?
	Wait, so okay.
	A individual member of a family without any other of the family members being involved, lone actor, kills a member of your family.
	The other family is living on the opposite side.
	Let's say they're in New York and this happened in California.
	You're going to go kill the slots.
	I guess for I for an eye, I would just kill whoever killed my family member.
	Well, now you're walking back your position.
	But I don't know what I would do in that situation because I'd be highly.
	You'd kill the whole family.
	I might.
	I just might.
	Even if that family involved innocent children?
	No, I would never kill a kid.
	Oh, not the kids.
	No, no, no, not kids.
	Not unless it's doing the woman.
	What about the grandmother?
	What if it's a kid who killed your family?
	I've never on top of it.
	You can't control for that.
	It's a times three.
	Would you kill the kid?
	Would you kill a kid if it was a kid who killed your family member?
	No, because it's a child.
	Now, hang on.
	I just want to make sure I got this.
	I would never hex a child either.
	I would never hex anyone under age 18.
	That I got this correct.
	That following this law of three, okay, the three times, you know, that's what you get.
	You do believe that this actually works.
	I do believe my hexes land, yes, and they are meant to land.
	And you believe that this actually has an effect in the world.
	Yes.
	So you believe that you are actually doing this.
	Yes.
	So then, why wouldn't it not be justified if some member, let's say, of my crazy family somewhere, right, hypothetically, took out a member of yours for me to not note that you would do a spell that could then condemn me based on the belief that wouldn't I be then justified to come and take you out before you could do a hex?
	You could try.
	Yeah, no, but that's not my question.
	I know what a person could try.
	I'm asking about the justification.
	I mean, the justification of, oh shit, you took out this witch's husband, Paul, you know what I mean?
	Third cousin of mine.
	She's going to take out the whole family.
	Wouldn't they then be justified in doing something to you just based on your fact of belief that this is?
	Sure, yeah.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Yeah, sure.
	And you think that that's coherent and not madness?
	I think that if I genuinely hurt someone and they decided to cast on me, that that is justified.
	Not cast on you.
	They did something completely different.
	They just came and took you out because they believed like you did that your spell could have such an effect that it destroyed their whole family.
	Wouldn't they be justified?
	Murder the whole family or whatever.
	Yeah, wouldn't they be justified in that?
	I'm sure, I guess.
	And you think that's justice?
	I think what I do is justice.
	We do have your website.
	We wanted to pull it up, Nick.
	Could you get the website going?
	So it says custom-made intense hexes.
	excuse me, do we, okay?
	Yeah, I offer a couple of inserts.
	This is perfect for those looking to get justice or looking to remove someone out of their life.
	Scroll down, Nick.
	Scroll down.
	Scroll.
	No, scroll, keep going.
	That's my website.
	Huh?
	What's up?
	What?
	It was just tripping out.
	Is it, you mean the mouse wheel?
	Do you do this whole time?
	I know, but you got to use the, just use the little.
	Yeah, and I just got my best friend hired as well, too.
	So do you work for someone else?
	No, I work for people myself.
	That's good spell work.
	I find everyone online.
	Okay, so custom-made, and I read these from the website, custom-made, intense hexes.
	This is perfect for those looking to get justice or looking to remove someone out of their life, areas I can hex.
	Relationships, money, sex, health, baneful protection.
	Remove someone from your life.
	General negativity.
	Make them go broke.
	Hex or click on the book today for hexes and baneful work.
	Scroll down.
	Okay.
	So make them go broke.
	Or I don't know if this was in a different one.
	Oh, scroll down?
	Scroll down.
	Scroll up.
	Oh, there it is.
	Wait, wait, let me scroll down.
	Yeah, I want to fill the point.
	Scroll down.
	Okay, that's good.
	What are you trying to achieve?
	So make them go broke, hex their love life, protect me and harm them when they get near me.
	Remove them from my life, plus cause pain, help me win a court case, general negativity.
	Really quick on the help me win a court case one, what if they're not in the right with the court case?
	But everybody, you know, everybody thinks that they're in the right, you know?
	Yeah, that's not really.
	I'm just offering a service.
	So when someone books me for a justice working and they tell me, basically I'm just going to help it so that they can present themselves better in court so they have a higher likelihood a chance of achieving their purpose.
	Can I ask you a question?
	So let's say, would you work for a guy?
	Like if a guy wanted to hex?
	Yeah, yeah, I have actually, that's how I met my partner.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So if a guy came to you and said, hi, I've been falsely accused of SA.
	Can you put a hex on her to get her to stop her accusation?
	Yeah.
	Can you help me in the criminal case that's ongoing, the civil case?
	You would do that.
	But I thought most, I thought you would tend to not agree that false accusations occur when it comes to this crime.
	Yeah, but what my client is coming to me and telling me is what I believe.
	I'm being paid to listen to my client and deliver what my client is asking.
	So you're like a witch hitman?
	I guess you could call me that.
	So you don't even care what your target is.
	You don't do any research.
	You don't try to determine if it's true.
	You're just going to come and they give you the money and you're going to hex their ass and that's the internet.
	I think you were away when we talked about it.
	Basically, I have a clause set up in my spells that any negativity you put out will be returned towards you.
	So I have it set up so that if that person that I am targeting is easy or is innocent, it's not going to land.
	It's an asterisk on the screen.
	I have a fine print essentially that I put in.
	Yeah.
	But this all operates off perception.
	You could perceive that you've had great wrongs done to you, even if you actually have not.
	Who is the juror here?
	Who makes the determination?
	The universe.
	And how does the universe know?
	By what metric does the universe judge?
	I put the energy out there and the universe decides to do what they want to do with it.
	I never specifically asked for my ex to be put off a building.
	I said, I want justice and I want him.
	I need something to be done so that he stops hurting women.
	And he fell off a building.
	I never asked for him to fall off a building.
	That was what happened.
	Okay.
	Cause and effect.
	Well, we can come back to some of that stuff a little later.
	You said, yes, I'm currently dating a famous rapper.
	We're polyamorous.
	Yeah.
	You can talk about our connection.
	So, famous rapper, are you at liberty to?
	I don't think me and him are at a place where we want to publicize stuff, but yeah.
	How big is his following?
	About 2 million overall platforms.
	He's signed to Republic Records.
	2 million collectively?
	Yeah, I think he has like 1.3 over TikTok and like 700K on Instagram.
	Okay.
	Roughly.
	And when you say polyamorous, so you're seeing other people and he's seeing other people.
	We had it set up when we first started talking where he could see other girls, but then we did decide to kind of make things a bit more exclusive just because we are long distance right now.
	And I kind of want to wait until we're in the same city before I would feel comfortable with him seeing other women.
	But he's fully supportive of me dating, talking, doing whatever I want with women.
	He's like very, very supportive of that aspect of my life.
	Okay.
	Nick, just be careful with that, okay?
	Yeah.
	You saw what I was doing.
	They around me poll donated $200.
	Absolutely hilarious.
	All right.
	Thank you, Mr. McClee.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you, Mr. Meatpole.
	Yo, send me a message on Instagram, man.
	Good to see you back in the chat.
	It's been a while.
	Also, we'll get you, I think we've got to get you legendary status on our Discord.
	I think for people who've been like regular, and if you're not in our Discord, people who've been like regular contributors over the months, years, whatever, we'll get you complimentary Discord status.
	So shoot me a message on Instagram.
	Yeah.
	Judge, your love spells, for example.
	You put it on that, like, you can basically have, make someone fall in love with somebody else.
	Correct.
	Do you not feel that's holding somebody against their wall?
	No, so how I have love spells set up is it's like an aphrodisiac.
	So for example, if I put a love spell on Justin Bieber, does that mean he's going to leave?
	So he spiked their drink.
	That's not, I'm not.
	Well, if it's an aphrodisiac, right?
	You just like, no, that's not what I'm saying at all.
	I'm saying it's equivalent to wearing perfume.
	It's not, here's the thing.
	So if I put a love spell on Justin Bieber, would he leave his wife for me?
	Probably not.
	Never say never, but probably not, right?
	Because there's nothing to build on there.
	So, witchcraft builds on the energy that is already there and already present.
	So, in order for me to effectively cast a love spell on someone else, they already have to have a lot of feelings towards me, and it's just gonna naturally elevate that feeling and that communication and increase it.
	Isn't it awful convenient to think, even from your own perspective, that you could not hex somebody who is famous nor give them a love spell, which would actually move them towards the person who wanted them, in this case, Justin Bieber, by saying, Well, it's due to the energies of the universe rather than just the logical improbability that Justin Bieber is ever going to leave this really hot woman for this less hot nobody he doesn't know.
	That's just improbable, right?
	Yeah, you probably wouldn't leave it.
	So, the thing is, is like I'm not sitting there and arguing that.
	Well, so I'm just saying, why should we assume that this in any way works?
	And it's not just essentially you wanting to believe that it works.
	Either all of my clients are liars, or maybe there's something to it.
	And even if what I do does not have any impact, it's not convinced, though, when I have hundreds and hundreds of women coming to me telling me that they have seen differences in their lives while working with me.
	Well, do you think that maybe it's just because you put it out there for them, so then they're making more effort towards that person?
	I think that's a factor, yeah.
	Like a placebo effect.
	I think that there's a factor to that, yeah.
	I think there's a factor.
	I think it's really for placebo.
	It's kind of the same concept as manifestation, where if you don't put work towards something, it doesn't matter how well you manifest.
	However, you can put a manifestation out there, you still need to work towards that manifestation.
	So, then you personally aren't actually doing something, you're just like, hey, this has happened.
	Now you can go do that.
	I'm naturally in the universe, and now it's happened.
	Essentially, yeah, I'm building on the energy that's already present and already there.
	But on your website, Nick, could you pull it back up?
	So, you offer a there's a section that says love spell.
	And I was a mean, I was generally asking.
	I was generally curious.
	No, you can ask me to say that.
	It's the one just right next to it.
	It's called love spell.
	So, you can show it.
	Pull it up.
	Okay.
	Pull up the side.
	Okay, so click on love spell, book today.
	Custom love spell.
	Love spell.
	Actually, wait, hold on.
	Before on that previous tab, it just says, So, sorry, go back.
	Go back, Nick.
	No, you can show it.
	You can show it going back.
	Well, I didn't hit the error.
	Oh, there should be a button on the mouse that's like a back button.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Well, can you scroll back down to it, please?
	Okay.
	So it says, get the love life of your dreams.
	But that, I mean, that seems like a bit bigger of a representation than just it already elevates an existing thing.
	But then it also says, love spells increase.
	Oh, can you click on it?
	Yeah, a love spell.
	Yeah.
	Love spells increase communication, emotion, and will aid in helping you get your specific person and love life you deserve.
	If there's a third party involved, okay, spells get done within a week.
	Book if you want more communication, are in no contact, want an ex back, want them to desire and think of you more.
	Well, no contact.
	Where's the building on that?
	Would seem to indicate that on the prior connection that they don't want.
	Do you ever if they don't want it, then they're not going to come back.
	It doesn't matter.
	Can cast a hundred different spells if that person has no intention of coming back.
	But it's kind of like a thing of like, it's more me getting a little pay for it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, do you create a friend if it's not?
	If they want you, why the need for the love spell?
	Because it adds to the energy that's already there.
	But then you're taking somebody else's free will away.
	But it is then fine, right?
	You're not taking that contact.
	How is there even energy there?
	If they don't want that contact, that means they don't want that contact.
	That means they don't want that.
	Well, there's a lot of different situations why two people could be no contact, and it doesn't necessarily mean that both parties never want to talk to me again.
	We don't want contact.
	I have a question.
	So let's say a girl, like the guy, is hesitant to get intimate.
	But he likes her, she likes him, and they're like, okay, she likes her.
	Sorry, he likes her.
	She likes him.
	I don't think we should be offering.
	Okay.
	Take my hands on my popcorns.
	All right.
	Be okay.
	So he likes her.
	She likes him.
	He's maybe been a little hesitant to get intimate, right?
	But he likes her.
	And the girl wants, like, she's thirsting for this dude.
	She's down bad.
	Wants a ring on it.
	No, she wants the fuck, right?
	Would you cast a spell to further along the sex?
	Probably not.
	I don't really like getting into that kind of situation.
	That sounds a little.
	I don't really want to do it if she didn't.
	But that's the connection.
	She wants the intimacy.
	Yeah.
	I would build off of the emotion that's already there.
	I would, yeah, maybe throw a little bit of energy towards what she's asking for.
	But yeah, I've never been asked to do that personally.
	Do you send people proofs that you actually did the spell?
	Yeah.
	How?
	I take photos and videos of the spell, and then I send it to the client.
	And then I have them update me, tell me how things are going, and then from there we can develop a plan.
	I mean, it occurs to me that you could sell a spell and then just never do the spell.
	And then they could just say, hey, they could just say, hey, I have this result.
	And you're like, awesome, sucker.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't do that, but if it doesn't work, can you get a refund?
	No, but I have it stated that it's not 100% guarantee because I can never 100% guarantee results.
	What I'm doing is not an exact science.
	If it was an exact science, it wouldn't be witchcraft.
	And people know that when they book with me.
	And they're okay with that.
	It's just increasing the likelihood of something happening.
	Fair enough.
	It's not like 100% guarantee if it makes sense.
	Fair enough.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Thank you for asking.
	Yeah, no, I'm just curious.
	Yeah.
	So you've said you dated a huge drug dealer when you were 16?
	Yeah.
	What kind of drugs was he dealing with?
	Coke.
	Okay.
	Weed.
	Yeah.
	You said you've been in extremely toxic relationships.
	Yeah.
	You don't mind speaking on?
	I think we maybe spoken on them a little bit.
	Yeah.
	You've had sugar daddies.
	Yeah.
	Do you currently have a sugar daddy?
	No.
	No.
	I had two sugar daddies and I cut them off when I started getting more serious with my current relationship.
	How many sugar daddies total have you had?
	Probably like four or six around that?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And what were the ways in which they were giving you sugar?
	Like giving you money, I guess.
	I don't know if that's the right thing.
	Well, I did have to do a lot of things when I was like 16 because I was like homeless.
	I don't want to get into that.
	But I'm not going to get into that.
	But the other two that I had recently were one actually bought a love spell from my website, hit me up, and I was like, okay, send a photo of the person you want me to put a love spell on.
	And they sent a picture of me.
	And then I was just like, okay, I'm not casting this.
	But hi, what's up?
	And then they just bought me like a lot of rave clothes and stuff like that.
	They bought me a lot of different outfits, stuff like that.
	Did any of your sugar daddies ever just send you money?
	Here's 200 bucks.
	100 bucks, 200 here and there.
	I had one guy who would, we would play 8 ball over iMessage.
	This is kind of fucked up.
	I was like 17.
	Or no, I was like 19.
	Yeah, 19.
	When I lost, I'd have to send him nudes.
	I just would go to Pornhub and I would just screenshot and crop out the face and I would just send it.
	And I got a lot of money off of him doing that.
	And I'm not necessarily proud of it, but it was a funnel frost.
	Yeah, it was like a really, I'm not proud of it.
	I'm not sitting here and being like, wow, that was a great thing for me to do.
	Yeah.
	By the way, Durandolls, thank you for the gifted 10 subs.
	Okay, so any other girls here had a sugar daddy before?
	Any sugar daddies?
	You got sugar.
	You've had a sugar daddy, right?
	No, actually.
	You're too, I'm sorry.
	If you're going to speak, you got to scoot into the table.
	You got to do it into the mic.
	No, I haven't.
	I just started doing all this, but just set work and OF.
	Okay.
	Life on easy mode?
	Sugar daddies?
	I don't think there's a lot of male wizards.
	Like 23-year-old male wizards who are just racking in like female sugar daddies, you know?
	Yeah.
	You guys both scoot in.
	Warlocks.
	Yeah.
	I guess you.
	Oh, warlocks, excuse me.
	How long were you in the high-demand Lutheran religion?
	Like when you were younger?
	Like when did, because when did that, when did your parents or family get out of that?
	I think I was about 13 when I convinced them to like go to a non-denominational.
	And then we were Christian for like a few years.
	I think I fell out of Christianity probably when I was around like 15, I want to say.
	I was atheist for a little bit.
	My dad's never been religious.
	My mom's like an avid, I think she's still Christian.
	I don't really know.
	We're not in contact, but.
	And how long have you been doing what you're doing now?
	About four years.
	Yeah.
	Well, I found spirituality when I was like 19.
	So I've been practicing spirituality witchcraft itself about three years.
	Yeah.
	It started with like manifesting stuff.
	You said that your ex-girlfriend was a DJ who put you in psychosis.
	Yes.
	What does that mean?
	So that was why I kind of got into spirituality.
	I was dating this girl and I was like so in love with her.
	And we broke up and she told me like, okay, if you really work on yourself, we might get back together.
	She was super into something called star seeds.
	And it's like the belief where you're an alien.
	No, it's not the belief you're an alien.
	It's a belief that you reincarnated from like other planets.
	Nope, it's not even that.
	It's close.
	What would you consider the star seed belief?
	Because that's how she described it.
	And that was my experience.
	Star seeds are an impacting of alien consciousness into directly into a human being.
	Yeah.
	So you are born the seed of the stars.
	Right.
	Okay.
	But that's why, of course, they can't match up DNA or things like this because it's all consciousness bullshit.
	Right.
	So she got me heavily, heavily down that pipeline, down the twin flame pipeline as well, too.
	And it was during like 2020 as well, too.
	So everyone was stuck inside.
	So I just really.
	So you guys were just playing like a big game of who can believe the craziest esoteric bullshit or what?
	Yeah, I was really in love with her.
	So I was really...
	So you've got to be a star.
	I was literally...
	Wait, but how did you...
	Wait, so you were in love with an alien?
	I...
	I guess.
	Well, you wrote in your notes, convinced me I was an alien who needed to raise the vibes.
	Yeah.
	And then so when you say you went into psychosis, were you like 5150?
	No.
	Were you an alpha centurion?
	I didn't get, but I went in.
	Wait, I'm sorry.
	I got asked to.
	Alpha Centurion.
	Draconian.
	God, I'm trying to remember which one.
	I think, yeah, I'm trying to think of which one I identified as.
	I'm not.
	Which one's the one that starts with an L?
	Lee?
	There's like a liberty.
	I don't know what they are.
	Because I don't identify with that belief system anymore.
	But I was real deep into it in 2020.
	It was more the twin flame pipeline that fucked me up.
	I just was willing to believe anything to be back with this girl.
	You said she put you in a psychosis, though.
	What does that mean?
	She, I got sent into psychosis based off the whole situation.
	She pushed those beliefs onto me.
	It was just a really, really like toxic situation.
	And I ended up spiraling really, really badly based on those belief systems.
	So I guess it's more, I guess I should have worded it better.
	She didn't necessarily put me in psychosis.
	It was more the belief system.
	But that dynamic that me and her had put me into psychosis for a brief moment of time.
	It took me a while to like really find myself again after that whole situation.
	All right.
	You said after we broke up, I ended up working for a work cult to try and get her back.
	You did not get back together, but it's a great story.
	Can you give us the very brief story of the work cult?
	So there is this, it's MLM, and basically they set up stores outside of stores and they ask money for, I can't say the word suicide prevention.
	A lot of the people that set stuff booths out outside of stores, they're working for marketing companies.
	They're not working for the nonprofits themselves.
	I got sucked into that.
	It's very like a work cult environment.
	Your entire life has to be about this job.
	Your entire life has to be about serving them.
	They isolate you from your friends.
	They isolate you from your family.
	So I got really wrapped into that situation.
	They really got into me.
	They knew that my weak point was my ex-girlfriend.
	And so they convinced me.
	They were like, if you work really hard, you can come back and you can support her.
	You can, this is the only way that you're going to be able to get back together with her, essentially.
	Drink the Kool-Aid.
	Yeah, I drank the Kool-Aid.
	A lot of Kool-Aid drinking with you.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I grew up in a cult.
	Isn't that kind of what you're doing, though, when you cast the spells?
	Like, hexes.
	Yeah, sorry, hexes.
	How is that equivalent to being in a cult?
	Oh, no, I don't mean the cult part.
	I mean, you're making something happen.
	Or so, you know, you think you're making something happen, but you think that you were manipulated because this person lied to you and said, we might be getting back together.
	But you're also telling people when they pay you to do the hex, you don't know for sure, but you're telling them you guys might get back together.
	Yeah, it's never 100% guarantee.
	And I say that right off the bat.
	I also do not push and idol and the ideology of like twin flame because it's like it's very, very, very toxic.
	Twin flame is very toxic.
	The twin flame, it's so toxic.
	And the star seed is so toxic.
	It's so, so toxic.
	And it sucks people in.
	And it really does destroy a lot of lives.
	I don't know if you guys have.
	It's a lot of women.
	It sucks.
	It's a documentary.
	Yeah.
	So if you guys don't know, there's a documentary that they made on two people that started an entire cult based off of the twin flame belief because it really does have impact on a lot of different people.
	But primarily when you grow up in an environment where you're conditioned to certain beliefs, your red flags aren't going off.
	So yeah, it's really not surprising that I was involved in kind of an or cult considering my background and considering how I was raised because I wasn't raised to believe, oh, this is a red flag.
	Giovanni C says, ask which girl monogamous relationships definitionally have more value because the exclusive nature of it is inherently valuable.
	You don't have multiple relationships.
	You have zero.
	Your man's a cuck.
	He's a cuck.
	Definitely not a cuck.
	He just wants to see me happy.
	Will he let you sleep with other men?
	No.
	That's a cuck.
	Has he ever let you sleep with other men?
	No.
	He doesn't have control over my body, but he would feel very, very upset if I slept with a man.
	So out of respect to him, I would not sleep with another man.
	Would you say, though, that a man who allowed his woman on purpose to sleep with other men is a cuck?
	Yeah, I think that's a kink.
	I mean, people fall into it.
	Being polyamorous and being a cuck are like two separate things.
	No, I don't think so.
	Yeah, because cuck is like it's doing in front of you.
	No, polyamory is more nuanced than that.
	If somebody allows their significant other to sleep with other people for their own gratification.
	For their own gratification.
	In this case, you're happy gratification.
	How are they not a cuck?
	I would never call my man a cuck.
	I would just never say that about him because he's not.
	I didn't say that he was.
	I said, so this is what.
	See, I think there's something strange about this conversation because I asked, is he?
	He said, no.
	I said, have you ever slept with other or slept with other men then?
	You say no.
	But then when I get to the definition of what a cuck is, you're not willing to commit to it because I'm wondering if it actually does fall under it's happening right in front of you and there's a lot of people.
	Why does it need to be in front of you?
	Because it's kink-based.
	No, the root word of cuck, the root word of cuck was based around the idea of the cuckold bird.
	So here's what would happen: the bird would go in, it would lay their eggs unbeknownst to the male, and then the male is then taking care of the eggs, the offspring.
	Unbeknownst to him, that is not his offspring.
	Okay.
	So the idea here is all about offspring.
	So the idea is if you're sleeping with other men, period.
	Right.
	He's a cuckold.
	Right.
	I'm not sleeping with other men.
	Right.
	So would you, okay, that's fine.
	But would you agree with my definition that that is what a cuckold is?
	Sure, I had a different definition, but I guess that I'm not super educated on that kind of uncomfortable.
	That's not what it is.
	So there's a lot of polyamorous, right?
	So I agree with you.
	Yeah, I identify polyamory.
	I'm very new to polyamory.
	They are cuckolded against their will.
	Okay, for sure.
	There are men who are cuckolded against their will, meaning wife, significant other goes out, sleeps with other men.
	That is cuckoldry.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, I guess I just had a different definition of it.
	And then also, men who allow their women to sleep with other men also cuckoldry.
	There's multiple ways in which cuckoldry is applied.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I just had a different definition.
	Yeah, does he sleep with other women?
	He's allowed to.
	We made things exclusive about two months ago.
	So for right now, we're keeping it closed.
	But when we live in the same city, I'm honestly okay with him seeing other women as long as it's not having a detrimental effect on our connection.
	But that's just me personally.
	I understand it's not for everyone.
	You said that you're new to polyamory.
	How new?
	This is technically my first polyamorous connection.
	I've always kind of wanted to explore it, but I've never had the opportunity.
	I've always been with people who are very monogamous.
	No, I don't want to even explore that.
	So, this is my first experience really exploring it.
	Polyamory has actually built relationships with multiple people.
	Well, sleeping with other people, that's just kind of swinging.
	Oh, I want to call for you.
	Unless somebody has an own, I have to move it off.
	So, is there an own coming?
	I just want to curious with your history of constantly being in cults, and seemingly, and my heart hurts for you, truly, like hearing these bad things that have happened in your life.
	Have you stopped to question the move that you've made into polyamory when you've constantly made poor decisions about cults and cult-like things?
	Yeah.
	How do you not see a red flag in this conversation?
	Because I don't think joining a cult is the same thing as being in a polyamorous connection.
	Did you think any of the cults you joined were cults, though?
	No.
	And the first one I didn't join, I was born into it.
	Yeah.
	But how is Polyamory's not a cult, though?
	Any it's when you say, when you say any ideology which is foisted on you as being good for you and isolating you is cultish.
	I'm not being isolated by Polyamory.
	No.
	No.
	My relationship is not isolative.
	He's actually like.
	Yeah, I'm not sure that I would consider it a cult either.
	I'm just pointing out that.
	Yeah.
	I know.
	Okay, so that's the extent of your notes.
	I guess the last thing here, I noticed the shirt that you're wearing.
	Do you care to explain?
	I just thought it would be funny.
	My friend who wanted to come on here, she watched a couple clips and she was like, I'm not going on that podcast.
	I don't like them.
	I don't agree with them.
	The only way I want you to go on this podcast, she made a deal with me, and it's like, it's not because she has control over me, but she was like, I'll only allow you to go on that podcast if you wear this shirt that I buy you.
	And I was like, okay.
	But that's not control?
	No, because it's a joke.
	She wouldn't actually keep me from going on the podcast.
	But you wore the shirt, yeah.
	So that's the explanation as to how you came to be wearing the shirt.
	Yeah, I just thought it was.
	I'm not really interested in that.
	More interested in actually exploring what it's trying to communicate.
	So is that your position?
	No, not necessarily.
	I just thought it was funny to wear.
	It's not your position?
	No, I don't think we should ban free speech in general.
	I think everyone should have the opinion.
	I do think there is considerably too many podcasts.
	I think that a lot of people buy a microphone and then start a podcast.
	What's wrong with that?
	I guess there's nothing wrong with it.
	It's just a very oversaturated picture.
	What would be your friends here?
	I mean, they weed themselves.
	I am honestly.
	It's just like everything else in the market.
	Yeah.
	They weed themselves out.
	So the best rise up and then everybody else just kind of goes by the wayside.
	Yeah.
	Well, so it seems like your friend perhaps has more objections than you do.
	I suppose if she was here, what would she say?
	About what topic?
	About banning male podcasts.
	Banning the podcast.
	She said something along the lines of, I'm not going to go on that podcast because.
	She's very misandrist, I would say, overall.
	She's like very, very friends with her.
	Yeah.
	Best friends with a misandrist.
	Yeah.
	Do you consider yourself a misandrist in any capacity?
	No, I think we disagree on a couple of topics.
	I think it's okay to disagree with your friends on certain topics.
	Well, I suppose, but I don't know.
	I have a lot of very negative.
	Who's your best friend?
	I have very, very negative.
	Very, very negative experiences with men.
	She's had extremely negative experiences with men, and I think that she's reacting to a lot of the experiences that she's had.
	And it's not my place to sit here and tell her her beliefs.
	Right.
	Let me ask you a question.
	So I just want to make sure.
	I just want to make sure I get this right, just real quick.
	Can you tell me what a misandrist is?
	She does not like men.
	Just hates them.
	Yeah.
	Okay, and you don't fall under that boat.
	No.
	No, I love my man.
	I'm very deeply in love.
	I've never loved a man like this before, though.
	I honestly thought I was a lesbian before I met him.
	I will say that.
	And I do really, really love him.
	I definitely do have a bias towards men where I do feel a lot more unsafe in the presence of a man than a woman necessarily.
	But that's based on my personal experience and my personal bias.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But I don't hate all men.
	I don't hate anyone.
	I just don't really harbor hate necessarily.
	Is there something specific?
	I mean, other than your experiences with these certain men, is there something as a men as whole that you, I guess, hold to a lower standard?
	I mean, I think men make you feel unsafe or less safe.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm.
	Coming from someone who's been assaulted.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, so a lot of the time, women are very, very dismissed when they are assaulted and when something negative happens to them.
	They are often not believed.
	And I'm not even, not even women.
	Let me just say that.
	Let me just preface that.
	Victims in general oftentimes are not believed.
	I would say that.
	And I think that's a very, very big problem.
	I would also say that although there is a lot of like domestic violence cases in lesbian relationships, I do, I am nuanced on, I am educated on that.
	A lot of women that are in DV situations don't survive.
	There's a lot of women that get killed.
	Like I, and there's a lot of women that experience DV from a male partner.
	I think it's like very, I don't generalize it as all men are evil.
	I generalize it as if a man is walking down the street, I'm going to feel considerably less safe than if a woman's walking down the street.
	Because the likelihood of me getting attacked by a man is higher, and the likelihood of me surviving an attack from a woman is considerably also higher.
	The likelihood of me surviving an attack, if you attacked me, I'm probably not winning.
	If you attacked me, we maybe could maybe tussle, you know?
	I don't know.
	I don't know, but I would have a better chance at defending myself against a woman than a man overall.
	So you said.
	This is the perception of that.
	Yeah.
	You know, it's like fear.
	And I guess maybe it's trauma.
	It's a lot of trauma and a lot of fear.
	And I think a lot of women experience that.
	And I think a lot of women feel very ashamed to speak out about it.
	You said that your friend had bad experiences with men.
	And this has made her perhaps have a bias against men because of her bad experiences.
	You also said that because of what you know about men, you'd feel less safe around them at night, for example, or if you're crossing the street.
	I mean, one, will you at least acknowledge that while you may statistically there may be, I'll just grant that there's basis for this, is it still sexist to just like approach this, to approach things that way?
	Is it sexist?
	I think it's more of a survival instinct.
	I think if you're.
	Well, but is it sexist?
	Let's say it is a survival instinct.
	Is it sexist?
	No, I think it's a survival instinct.
	So let's change men for two females.
	You're mostly with females.
	Let me just tell you, let me have the back and forth, please.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Why don't we change it to race?
	So I had Speaking hypothetically here, if I had poor experiences with a member or a few members of a racial group, and because of these poor experiences, I am now, in all instances, when interacting with said racial group, I have hesitation, I feel uncomfortable.
	Would this be racist?
	No, racism would be if you acted on it.
	If you're not acting on it, I am acting, I'm avoiding communicating with them.
	If I see, for example, you see three men coming at you at night, maybe you cross the street to be on the other side of the street.
	Right.
	That would be acting on it, correct?
	Okay.
	So if we just replace that scenario and we just put in black people, is it racist?
	To cross the street and purposely avoid them.
	Let's say it's two men and two women.
	Based on your previous bad experiences.
	Yeah.
	Is that racist?
	Yeah, I guess there could be arguments for that.
	I would still say it's more like trauma-based more than anything.
	What do you mean?
	I think that what you're explaining to me sounds like it's very trauma-based.
	Sure.
	I think that a lot of people, like there are people who do have like preferences where they're like, I cannot date people from this certain background because I have trauma with that background.
	And I think it's like a very gray topic for me because I'm like, I can see instances where it could be considered racist, and I could see instances.
	Well, then you'd have to see it.
	But being instances of sexism, too.
	Statistically, I am safer with a woman walking towards me than a man.
	I really am because they have a physical.
	Are you sure you want to get into crime statistics?
	No, it's more about I have a physical advantage over a woman.
	I don't have a physical advantage over a man.
	Even though there's more domestic violence in lesbian relationships?
	Yeah, but if we get into how many people survive domestic violence and how many people die from domestic violence, I would say I would assume a high amount of the women that are dying from domestic violence, it's in cases with men because men have a higher likelihood of the ability to kill you.
	I do agree with that.
	I agree with that statement.
	So then wouldn't this be a good question?
	Wouldn't this also be a good analogy the other direction to say that high-profile men should avoid contact with women because the capacity for that woman to destroy their life?
	Sure.
	Sure, if that's, yeah, if that, yeah, I think my partner's pretty high-profile and he's.
	So if I were, let's say, a successful man who owned a factory, shouldn't my hiring practices be tailored towards not women?
	Well, there's laws against that.
	Yeah, but we couldn't do that.
	My question is, by this logic, shouldn't my hiring practices not be tailored towards women?
	People do do that with their business, though.
	Yeah, I know, but people do that constantly.
	Yeah, that's an is that's a descriptor.
	I know that they do.
	I'm asking if they should based on this logic.
	No.
	But I think that that's being, but me not giving an opportunity to someone versus me avoiding the same thing, given no opportunity.
	What opportunity are they giving by me walking down a street?
	So what's going on here?
	What opportunities are you going?
	Okay, there's three of you, or even one of you, right?
	Hello, man at night who's walking towards me.
	You're not giving him the opportunity to demonstrate he's not going to do anything to you.
	You're instead taking the choice, I'm not even going to take the chance by crossing the street.
	Right.
	How would that logic not apply to the factory owner?
	Doesn't want to hire women because that's completely different.
	That is giving a job and an opportunity to someone.
	The opportunity I'm taking away from the man walking down the street is the opportunity to harm me.
	Yeah, that's what they're doing.
	They're taking away their opportunity to harm them.
	Same thing.
	I guess.
	I would avoid anyone walking down the street, but I would especially avoid a man walking down the street.
	Right, so then I would hire anybody, but I would especially hire men over women.
	Okay, and people do that.
	But do you think they should?
	I think you're entitled to do what you want to do for your business, although the law would state that that is incorrect.
	Yeah, I know what the law would say.
	I'm asking about.
	So there's morally, I think you should be able to hire whoever you want to hire for your company.
	It's your company.
	So it's rational to you that if men said we don't want to hire women because they pose a greater threat to us just by them being in our vicinity.
	That is their decision for their business.
	However, that will have repercussions, obviously.
	That's going to cause riots.
	That's going to cause disagreements.
	And that could be very detrimental.
	Personally, from a business standpoint, I wouldn't recommend doing that because that's going to have a negative impact on the case.
	I mean, do you think if it were legal tomorrow for men to exclude women from jobs if they owned and do own these factories, don't you think that they would?
	Some, maybe.
	I don't think all would.
	Why would all?
	I'm not saying all.
	I'm asking if a lot more would than now.
	No.
	Yeah, I think they would.
	I think they would.
	Why?
	Because I don't think that they want the idea of women around who could potentially ruin their life or damage their company through the fact that they can get false witness, false allegations.
	They kind of already do that, though.
	Because the law says they have to.
	Okay, here's the thing, though.
	If I apply for a job, they can say, oh, we don't want to hire her for this reason, legally.
	They could decide to not hire me because I'm a woman.
	They just legally cannot say that.
	That happens all the time.
	It's like a very, very common issue.
	But you forget the other side of the coin, which is the incentives, where they say you need to have quotas or X amount if your clientele needs to be female or things like that.
	There's those laws as well, affirmative action for women, which say you have to have X amount.
	So the thing is, is like, can you imagine if I made a law that said, well, you have to walk by X amount of women?
	You have to.
	Even though your perception is they could hurt you, you say, well, statistically, they probably wouldn't.
	Would that be good enough for you?
	Why would I take that chance?
	Right.
	That's my whole point.
	Why would a man take that chance if he owned a factory?
	Why would they take the chance?
	Why wouldn't they just go, fuck that?
	I'm not doing it.
	They really don't.
	They don't take the chance a lot of the time.
	This is like a big issue.
	Unless they're forced by law.
	Yeah, and even then, there's still ways around it.
	People always find ways around.
	Yeah, but it's not as easy.
	You could be penalized.
	Companies are penalized.
	Yeah.
	Problems which happen.
	Why they decide not to.
	I don't get penalized for not walking by a man across the street.
	I don't have any repercussions.
	The point is, imagine if we had a law that said you would get penalized if you didn't walk by X amount of men on the street.
	Wouldn't you ignore the law?
	Yeah, I would.
	Yeah.
	And that's why I think that men are justified in ignoring the law saying that they should hire women if they don't want to.
	Okay.
	I am fine with that.
	I'm not hired by a man.
	I believe women should work for themselves.
	I fully support women.
	Well, I mean, not every woman's going to be able to be, you know, do hexagrams and shit on people, right?
	No, but I fully support women-owned businesses because I think we need more of them.
	Should we give incentives for that?
	Make laws tailored towards that?
	Not necessarily no.
	But I think we can advocate for that.
	And I think I personally boost brands and boost content creators that are women for that exact, because I want to give them that opportunity.
	I want to give them that platform.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But you don't think that there should be laws that force men to hire women, right?
	That's all bad, right?
	Because they're just protecting themselves by your logic, right?
	I don't think that it's the same thing.
	I think we're having to do that.
	Yeah, I don't see where you've made a delineation.
	It seems like it's exactly the same thing.
	I'm protecting myself from a statistical standard.
	I'm not going to hire women.
	Just never ever ever let yourself be alone with one for your own safety.
	Yeah, it's a safe point.
	It's a safety concern.
	That's his point.
	That's a safe point, exactly.
	Okay.
	Earthquake.
	Drop and cover.
	Seriously?
	It's an earthquake.
	Earthquake.
	It drops.
	It's going.
	You can see it in the water.
	Oh my gosh, I can feel it.
	I don't normally have never experienced it.
	It's going.
	It's happening.
	It's happening.
	Yep, it's an earthquake right now.
	I knew San Jose was going to happen the second I came here.
	It's going out.
	Relax.
	Relax.
	You're good.
	I'm just kidding.
	It's not bad.
	I told you guys I hexed you guys.
	I'm sorry.
	It's still going.
	I've just hexed up with holy water for the fall.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	You guys, your counteracting didn't work.
	Your protection magic didn't work.
	Sorry.
	I've been in hat pack hurricanes for an earthquake.
	Yeah, really.
	We just had an earthquake.
	I didn't feel anything.
	It just moved our water, but it said to drop and cover.
	So drop and cover.
	Water face.
	Isn't there like hackers show?
	Yeah.
	That must have been a 1.0.
	Isn't there like an aftershock or something?
	Was there a TTS that came in too?
	It was probably a three or four.
	Oh, little paladins.
	Okay.
	We do have another message from Jesus Horse.
	These.
	What's up?
	These spells are going to backfire on you.
	There's no innocence clause.
	That's not how magic works.
	You have no understanding on what you're doing.
	You are not King Solomon or Crowley.
	You are a fraud.
	Do you want to respond to that?
	I mean, they're entitled to their own beliefs.
	I personally, again, I have an overwhelming amount of positive experiences with clients.
	I would say nine out of ten clients that come to me leave with better results, with better lives.
	Okay.
	Well, I just want to point out that Aleister Crowley also was a fraud and that the Key of Solomon is a fraudulent book and complete nonsense and really has nothing to do with King Solomon at all.
	But just want to point that out.
	Yeah.
	I feel like it's a bit of a cop-out, though, when it comes to the shirt.
	Like, oh, I'm wearing a statement on a shirt, but I actually don't believe it.
	My friend told me to do it.
	Well, it's just a joke.
	Yeah.
	You'd have no objections, like, if I went to, like, if I walked around at UCSB, for example, and I wore a short shirt that says, like, ban female teachers.
	No, no problem.
	I really wouldn't care.
	Wouldn't care.
	Ban female guests on podcasts.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Perhaps if your friend.
	It's a joke.
	I'm not obvious.
	This doesn't have this hasn't more of an impact on you than I thought it would.
	It's just a funny joke.
	Don't think it's.
	I just think it's a bit of a Massandra statement.
	I don't, I'm not crying like the feminist who is next to you.
	I'm not either.
	Yeah, no.
	I mean, the big ol' feminist.
	Guns blazing.
	That's how she describes herself.
	Big ol' feminist.
	Big old feminist.
	All right, we're gonna get into some of some of the other show notes here.
	Oh, wow.
	Okay, thanks, Dave.
	Appreciate it.
	Let's do pull up Twitch really quick, then we'll get into the rest of the pre-show notes.
	Guys, go to twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Drops a follow and the prime sub if you have one, twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Guys, it's been 45 minutes since we last got a prime.
	I think it's bugged.
	Can somebody help out?
	Like, unstuck it, unbug it?
	I don't know what is going on.
	It's really weird.
	I don't know why they're, you know, it's strange.
	I think it's bugged.
	Somebody maybe can help out.
	Can we hex it?
	Appreciate it.
	I need to fix the camera in the center.
	It's a little off, but before I do that, I did want to pull up.
	Nick, could you pull up that Reddit post?
	We'll read it really quick.
	So this was posted on Reddit and legal advice.
	Could you scroll up to the top so we can see the title?
	Scroll down a little bit.
	Okay, do I legally have to bring my date back home if I took them out?
	It was quite a substantial distance that we drove.
	I matched with the girl on Tinder and chatted for a couple of days.
	She mentioned that there was a big event happening three states over and asked me if I wanted to join her on a short holiday for a week.
	I agreed, picked her up, we had dinner to see if we clicked, and then I drove to the event.
	When we reached the event, she ended up hooking up with another guy in the hotel room I'd booked.
	She scampered off and eventually returned to the hotel room very, very late after not seeing her for hours and very, very drunk.
	Obviously, I was pissed that I'd been used as a free travel ticket and I had to spend most of my time at this event alone.
	I wasn't expecting to be rewarded with sex, but at the very least, don't abandon me in another state while you go shacking up with other guys.
	It is still going on for three more days, the event.
	But can I legally just abandon her here and drive home, or do I have a legal obligation to take her with me?
	I'd rather not waste any more of my time, and I might be able to do okay, whatever.
	I think, oh, scroll down.
	Yeah, I told her I was going to leave, and she insisted that I had to wait for her, as I was the only way she could get back home.
	States involved are Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana, currently in Indiana.
	So, just as a brief, kind of more light break from the conversation at hand, your thoughts on this?
	Does he have any obligation to her to leave her?
	No, leave her.
	Leave her there.
	Why is he asking about legal obligations?
	Is there a legal law that would be a little bit more?
	That's why he's asking us to make sure he's not.
	I don't think that's a good question.
	I would say there's nothing.
	Butler donated $200.
	That was not an earthquake.
	It was the panel's genital warts violently bursting at the seams and shaking the entire state of California.
	Thank you, man.
	Brian, you're putting Andrew at risk, you bastard.
	Hashtag helpies.
	I do want to say we do, at least when it comes to the chairs, we disinfect them.
	Actually, we burn all the chairs after the show.
	Every show we have a new set of chairs coming in.
	Jay Butler, send me a message on Instagram.
	Okay, Jay Butler, it's been a while.
	I know you came back recently.
	You've been on the hiatus from the whatever podcast, but he's a brave and a decent man.
	Shoot me a message on Instagram, Ma'am.
	I need to talk to you, bro.
	We're going to get you hooked up on our Discord.
	So thank you, man.
	Okay.
	Let's get into some of the other notes here.
	We have Kayla.
	Kayla.
	That is me.
	You're a Christian, single mom, single for nine years.
	Within that time, you had one night stand that led to an adoption.
	You mentioned the adoption, and that was from a one-night stand.
	Correct.
	Okay.
	You say I've never had a ho-faz by typical standards and no relationships in my adult life aside from my ex-husband.
	So no, no ho-faze aside from the one-night stand pregnancy.
	I've had a few discretions since my divorce.
	Nothing that all of them one-night stands, nothing that was like a relationship.
	It's kind of me giving into the world, saying, go get it, girl.
	So I went and got it.
	And then instantly regretted it.
	And you said unique.
	Yeah, you already said this.
	I got pregnant off a one-night stand, gave the baby away through adoption.
	Relationship with ex-husband, unique, uniquely sad, do you think?
	But did you not want to get into that?
	I can't get into my ex-husband's relationship with myself.
	But I can talk about my relationship with my ex-husband.
	Yeah, you said the common story of a girl with low self-confidence staying with the wrong guy with a few extra twists and turns.
	Yeah, so if you want to give us kind of like the plot synopsis version, go ahead.
	Yeah, so I met him when I was 18.
	I moved to Maryland when I was 18.
	I went there for.
	Pull the mic a little closer.
	I can move with him.
	Yeah, you're good.
	So I moved to Maryland when I was 18.
	I went to culinary school, so that's what brought me out there from Indiana.
	Oddly enough, he just said he was in Indiana.
	And I met my ex-husband when I was 18.
	We worked at Bob Evans together.
	I pursued him.
	I was always the girl that went after the guys as like a young girl.
	So when I went off to college, I did the same thing.
	And we broke up a few times because he thought we were not puzzle pieces that like met each other, like we weren't meant to be, in his opinion.
	But I kind of kept pushing at it because, again, low self-esteem, you kind of find what you think.
	you're supposed to be finding and you kind of cling on to it and at the time that's what he was to me.
	He was just he wasn't a mean guy.
	He just wasn't a guy that loved me.
	And so I would sit there for years just doing all I could to prove to him like how wifely I could be, how solid I could be.
	I worked on my own.
	I lived on my own.
	Like we were together for eight years and we didn't move in with each other till six months before we were married because he wanted to make sure I was a solid person, a whole person on my own, before we could be whole people together.
	And he was just very narcissistic, very just like, I don't know, ignorant to my emotional sides, just like some men can be, but at the same time, I know it's very, he's not abusive physically, just very emotionally.
	Made me feel like my opinions didn't matter, my emotions didn't matter, and I was okay with it until I was married.
	And then we got pregnant on our wedding day, and I always say that when my daughter came out of my vagina, she pulled out my balls.
	Because after I gave birth to my daughter, I started realizing how I did deserve more than a man who thought I was just okay.
	I deserved more than a man who said I actually wasn't the most beautiful girl in the room and all those sorts of things.
	And we divorced because something came up with my daughter and I wouldn't just believe him.
	And he actually was the one that went to court and filed for divorce to me.
	So I didn't divorce him.
	He divorced me because I wouldn't just side with him.
	And that was my marriage in a nutshell.
	It was just, he was a whatever guy.
	Gaslighty.
	Very gaslighty.
	I don't know.
	He was just very much of a whatever dude, not a yes man.
	So we lived a life with no amenities.
	We had no credit cards.
	We didn't own anything extravagant.
	I wasn't allowed.
	We weren't allowed to have cable in the house.
	We didn't have the internet because it was...
	Sounds great.
	I currently actually still have no internet or cable in my house because once you remove yourself from that addiction, you realize how frivolous it is.
	And it's also an extra $120 in my pocket.
	But when you're in a relationship with someone who says like no to anything besides food, house, gas, job, it was very limited in life.
	And I just lived in that for a long time.
	It's kind of like how people lived throughout all of history?
	Pretty much, which I came from a very disgruntled and dysfunctional like family lifestyle dynamic when I was a child.
	So to me, it was very stable.
	Like the doldrums of our relationship, looking back at it, yes, it was boring.
	Yes, there was no like emotional growth.
	Yes, to a lot of things that didn't happen, but it was stable.
	He wasn't off the rails, crazy guy.
	He wasn't yelling at me all the time.
	He wasn't constantly moving.
	He wasn't constantly doing a whole bunch of stuff.
	He just wasn't doing anything.
	That makes sense.
	Do you miss being married?
	I don't miss being married to him, but I do miss being married.
	Like I always grew up thinking that I would be a married woman.
	I would be a woman creating children, someone fostering a household, nurturing a man, being behind a man, like filling up his cup as he fills others sort of situation because I feel like that's what wives are kind of meant to do.
	So I do miss that and I still do long for it.
	I know I'm 40.
	What was this breaking point with the daughter?
	Unless it's, that's like.
	She said she couldn't talk about it.
	It's stuff.
	Yeah, I'm like in a legal custody battle, so I'm not allowed to say things that might influence how people view him.
	But it came to a situation where I had a two-year-old coming to me saying a certain thing had happened in her life, and I had a choice to either listen to a two-year-old that had no reason to make up anything or listen to a man whose reaction to it was very angry.
	Normally, I find that if someone is presented with something that has happened, if they come at you with anger, that's normally guilt, which normally kind of says, yes, this has actually happened.
	I mean, it's a natural reaction.
	Actually, anger is a natural reaction to being an angle, right?
	I do agree with that.
	If there's a false accusation, I would get angry.
	Reactionally, yes.
	But after, I think, months of conversation, going through therapy, if the level of anger never subsides, it kind of...
	Okay.
	Well, one thing on that's interesting to me is like if somebody says you did something, maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but then if you, they say if you become defensive, but like, how do you ex do you expect people to not defend themselves if they've been falsely accused of something?
	That's why I don't understand.
	Like, isn't that the point?
	Like, you want to defend yourself, but people will use your defensiveness.
	Oh, you must have done something because you're so defensive.
	Well, I think it's this, it's kind of like the same way how some men view women when they become in conversation.
	Yes, you have every right to defend yourself with a defense if all it is is an emotional reaction and there's no anything behind it to prove it otherwise, besides emotional.
	I thought men were supposed to be more in touch with their emotions, I think when it comes to your child, it's that, that's it's.
	It's a hard line, though I mean assuming, taking making some assumptions about what sort of accusation this must have been.
	I mean, it seems like pretty catastrophic life-ruining, life-ending criminal potential, criminal prosecution, reputational destruction.
	I could see somebody getting emotional over their whole life potentially being ruined, but it puts a mother on the rock in a hard place it does put.
	So I can kind of speak to this as well, because my husband and I actually had this situation happen to us with my stepdaughter and he was put through the gambit.
	We had her like on rare bases and the mother put in false allegations against him that he like brutally beat her and we had to go through investigators and all sorts of stuff to clear his name.
	Like she took it all the way the DA, the DA and all sorts of stuff to have to clear his name and he was a hundred percent innocent and it was a really fucking and like, and I totally like, get that, and that's why like, I'm not even mentioning what it is, because I did not leave him because of those and we don't need this specific.
	Yeah, like I, the divorce didn't happen because of what had happened with my daughter.
	It happened because he filed for the divorce.
	Yeah yeah, it happened because he had filed for, but here's, but here's.
	So I'm thinking about this as you're talking about.
	So, if my, I'm thinking if, if somebody brought, from my perception, a false allegation Against me to my wife, and my wife believed it.
	You know what I mean?
	Wouldn't that feel to me like the ultimate act of betrayal, right?
	So as I think about it, I'm like, well, maybe I would do the same shit.
	Maybe I'd be like, well, you know, this is a pretty big deal.
	And the fact that you don't believe me and you're supposed to believe me, that's like, that would feel like a big act of betrayal.
	I think.
	I think that I could see myself doing something like that.
	You know what I mean?
	No, and I totally understand it because, yeah, and again, not to get into specifics.
	I tell my ex-husband even still that I don't believe it's not, because I'm being vague, it's kind of hard to say, but I'm not even to the point where I'm convinced and I want to ruin a reputation because again, it was on the word of a young child saying something might have happened or something did happen.
	Or I was scared of a certain situation.
	Let's say it that way.
	That's why I didn't go straight and filed for divorce.
	That's why I'm not wanting to mention it here.
	And I didn't even write it down in my divorce papers of like, this is why it's happening because I didn't want it to become a false accusation that became something that ruined someone's reputation.
	Because boy, howdy, do those things certainly do ruin people's reputations.
	But at the same time, if in a relationship, if you're saying, okay, especially when you have a child involved, because yes, mama bears, that comes out real hard.
	It's really hard for us to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, I feel like I need to protect my child.
	And yes, I understand.
	Like, I don't want to.
	And looking back, I really hate the fact that I had to kind of betray the trust of my ex-husband.
	And I had to sit there and go, is this even possible?
	Like, the man who I love and the man who I married, do I want to believe this?
	And the answer was no.
	And the answer still is.
	I don't want to believe that anything like that was happening or however.
	Sure.
	But I still have to sit back and say, well, this is how it affected my child and this is how it's going on.
	And I have to do the best for her.
	But again, I didn't really necessarily want a divorce.
	And he was the one that filed for it because I still was wanting to work through the matter where he just wanted it to just stop.
	And that's what led to divorce.
	It's just like, and I get it.
	But at the same time, I couldn't just turn off my needing an answer.
	Okay.
	Yeah, there's nothing wrong with you asking questions.
	Yeah.
	You know, getting to some questions.
	I feel responsible to ask questions.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, so you said, moving on, you disagree on the view Brian and most others have on single moms.
	So I guess what is the position that you think I or others have on this?
	Well, it might not necessarily be your point of view.
	Sorry, thank you.
	It's just point of views I've heard before on this podcast or other podcasts about how generally children of single mothers turn out to be the bad bunches of the world.
	And I get that.
	And I don't disagree with the statistics of it and all.
	I just, I guess where I disagree is putting solely the blame on the fact that it's a single mother and not necessarily a single parent in general.
	Because some of the turnout situations could still be the same if it was.
	When it's a single father at home, the problems and the outcomes are significantly better than when it's with a single mother at home.
	That's why it's viewed this way with so much social stigma.
	So the idea is not to say that women who are single, many times women can become single through no fault of their own.
	Perhaps they're in an abusive, an actual abusive relationship.
	Perhaps their husband dies.
	Perhaps, you know, there's any number of different situations which can cause it.
	But if you were looking to advise, if you're just, if let's say you had an entire pool of men to advise, then you were to look at the numbers and you go, okay, look, the amount of shit that you're going to put up with marrying a single mom versus not marrying a single mom is massive.
	You're going to be putting up with a lot more shit, a lot more trouble.
	Now you got exes involved.
	You got all of this involved, right?
	Babies.
	It's probably better if you have viable options external to a single mom to take those.
	Now, there's situations, many situations, where marrying a single mother works out fine.
	Dating single moms works out fine.
	There was no problem with that.
	But it's not often, right?
	Those are much smaller in the percentage of the pool versus the amount of people who end up in with catastrophic situations because now they have to not only deal with you, but they have to deal with children that are not theirs.
	And then the fathers of those children, the extended families of those fathers of those children who all want to be involved.
	That's where the viewpoint is.
	It's like, so if you were going to advise your son, if you had all of that data and there were options in front of him, and so option one is, I really like this girl, but you know, she has children from another man, but I also really like this girl, and she doesn't, right?
	It seems pretty clear that you would advise him, hey, maybe you should think if that option's available to you about going with that because there's less potential for damage to you if you're looking for the best for your own kids, right?
	Does that make sense?
	Oh, yeah, definitely.
	Before I have you answer that, I actually didn't hear you actually raise this from the context of dating.
	Now, perhaps it's your position.
	The only thing I heard was just you've heard people say that when it comes to raising children, the outcomes of the children when raised in a single mother household as compared to a single father household.
	But is it also just because Andrew's now in the realm of dating, right?
	Yeah.
	Are you also have qualms there when it comes to, hey, it's suboptimal to date single moms as opposed to childless women?
	Oh, no, definitely not.
	I definitely disagree.
	So Andrew, I think her position is simply just the whole single moms raising children, the outcomes for the children as compared to the single father.
	It's not really a dating friend.
	I mean, they're up front.
	They're much worse across the board.
	So they're much worse in criminality.
	And here's why.
	I'll tell you why this is the case.
	It's because of the external component of stepdad.
	So stepfathers are far more likely to abuse the kids.
	Stepdads are far more likely to have a revolving door, right?
	Or boyfriends, much more likely to have a revolving door.
	Single dads don't work that way, right?
	So if a single dad has another woman who enters in the kids' life, they have a lot more power to do something about any type of problem which may occur, right?
	Not going to have the same dependency issues.
	They're not going to have the same revolving door.
	And so the chances of abuse go significantly down.
	So for instance, if I single tomorrow and I was dating a woman and I saw some kind of abusive tenants, right?
	Very easy for me to be like, get the fuck out of here, lunatic.
	And what is she going to do about it?
	Nothing.
	But the other way might not be so easy, right?
	So this is why you generally have better outcomes with single fathers is because they can actually do something when it comes to this idea of abuse and they are far more likely, far more likely than the biological dad to abuse kids.
	Like overwhelmingly.
	Not all of them do it.
	In fact, probably most of them don't do it.
	Just saying that statistically, they're more likely to.
	So that's why the outcomes tend to be better with single fathers than single mothers.
	And isn't there data that per capita looking at children raised by single fathers as compared to single mothers, for example, incidents of criminality?
	Yeah, I brought that up.
	But that's why the incidences of criminality come.
	Sure.
	So me being single is better for my child.
	Like, you know, it would be worth it.
	I do have to move it on.
	But if you, so if you can make it, the chances are, and this is just raw facts.
	These are just raw facts.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	The chances of you introducing a new man into your child's life are likely going to be more detrimental than if you were in a relationship with the child's biological father for the course.
	Now, that doesn't mean that that's going to be true.
	I'm just talking about risk factors.
	The risk factors are higher, that's all.
	So yeah, so I'm saying like from my point of view, I've been single since I've been single.
	So from what you're explaining, that means that like my outcome would be slightly better because I'm not having that higher OTIP.
	Yeah, the outcome may be slightly better because you don't have other men coming in.
	However, it's still going to be suboptimal as to if you had probably stayed with the father.
	And so that's why, like you said, your Christian churches will often recommend: look, there's no abuse, there's no drugs, there's no stuff like that.
	You guys are just having a hard time reconciling some issues.
	You should probably still stay together to make sure that the kids have the best shot at life.
	Because after they're out the door, then you can do something different.
	You know what I mean?
	But that's often why even non-religious counselors will often advise this.
	Okay.
	You said also the viewpoint that women are more attractive at 20 than 40.
	So what was your thing there?
	I mean, kind of, you asked earlier about if I thought I looked better now than I did at 20.
	And I understand the whole man of point of view about like how they look, how when we're younger, we look more fertile and we are more fertile looking as young women.
	I just, personally, I believe that women look slightly better.
	Even men, we look better in that middle of age, somewhere between 30 and 40.
	When we have more matured features, we slightly don't look so babyish in our faces, not as young.
	And I just think that we look slightly better, slightly better.
	I think as women age, definitely their taste age when it comes to men.
	100%.
	Not confident that is the case the other way around.
	That women, or I'm sorry, that men aren't still attracted to younger women because all the data that I've seen most definitely shows that they are.
	As women, it seems that their tastes slightly deviate.
	Though they still, from a beauty standard point, still go, okay, 25-year-old men are still better looking on average than 45-year-olds.
	The men age like fine wine.
	Well, I think the tastes change because of the valuation of different things.
	They just value different things.
	Men at 45 are still looking at women as vessels and carriers of children.
	That's what the attraction comes from.
	So youth is associated with that.
	Of course, that's why you'd be attracted to younger women.
	Yep.
	I mean, it's not even really that difficult to understand.
	It's not, yeah.
	I don't understand.
	Do you have the study, though?
	Actually, we can bring that up.
	You can go to if you want to.
	I mean, I think it's not a vital understanding.
	A really good place to source a lot of this data, especially on the abuse in the home.
	You can go to my wife's substack, Rachel Wilson, and you can check.
	I mean, she's gone through and compiled huge amounts of data just to kind of go through these one at a time because she argues with feminists so much.
	Probably the best anti-feminist debater in the world.
	And Book, O Cult Feminism, it compiles some of this, but her sub stack has most of the kind of cultural battle statistics that we're kind of going over all the time, but especially in a case like this.
	And I think what happens is people often think that you're attacking them based on their situation.
	Yeah.
	When you're not really attacking them based on their situation, you're just explaining the distinction in risk assessment.
	You're like, look, if I'm going to advise somebody, if I were to tell a man, right, is it a good idea in 2024 to get together with a single mom if another choice was viable?
	The answer is definitely no.
	It is definitely no, you shouldn't.
	Okay?
	And what happens is because they're in the situation where they themselves are a single mom, they see that as an attack.
	But it's not an attack.
	It's just showing, look, this is what is true.
	It's not the case that it may be true in your situation or anybody's situation.
	But there is like a statistic here that we can look to that we can make these kind of general determinations off of based on outcomes.
	Is there a statistic that you know about two single parents?
	Honestly, the only reason I brought up statistics is because it was just a callback to the feminist who needed the statistic thing on everything.
	So I need to get through the rest of the notes here.
	We have Riley.
	Riley, you have a crazy hookup story.
	Yeah, I have lots, but I don't specifically want to get that.
	Oh, I have lots, but I have one specific one I'll tell.
	Okay, it's okay.
	So one time I met this guy at the beach and we decided to hook up.
	There's not much to it.
	Anyways, he kind of had like an offensive sense of humor, which is fine.
	Like sometimes that's funny to me.
	But we were hooking up and he said what I thought was a joke, but it turns out it wasn't.
	He asked me if I wanted to role play as Helen Keller.
	Helen Keller was not real.
	She was not real.
	No, she was not real.
	And I laughed at that and he like got mad and like put his hand over my mouth and told me to shut up, bitch, because Helen Keller cannot talk.
	And he was being dead serious.
	Oh, my God.
	Yeah.
	So that's one of them.
	That's probably the funniest.
	Okay.
	Whoa.
	Helen Keller's definitely the blind.
	Yeah, yeah.
	By the way, this was also my first time.
	It was.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Like, first time having sex?
	Yes.
	No.
	How long did you know the guy for?
	I was on a pilot.
	Like a week?
	So you just you're losing and but you did prove wait, hold on.
	Was it before having sex he asked you to do this or you guys had sex?
	No, like while we were having sex.
	Mid thrust.
	Yeah.
	He wanted you to be Helen Keller.
	Yeah.
	Did he know you were a virgin?
	Yes.
	What the fuck?
	Jai Vanik donated $200.
	This is Catholic.
	What's the Catechism say about beach hookups and Helen Keller and McLean?
	Well, I don't like.
	I only say I'm Catholic because when I was born, I was baptized and my family is Catholic, but I don't necessarily like practice.
	Yeah, practice or believe every single thing.
	But so are you Catholic?
	Are you religious?
	Do you believe in God?
	I believe in God.
	I'm still trying to believe.
	Are you a Christian?
	Yeah, I'm still trying to figure it all out.
	I just, I'm trying to figure it out right now.
	Are you on a journey?
	I guess so.
	I'm on a journey.
	You're on a journey of self-discovery?
	Yeah.
	I definitely do believe in God, though.
	Wait, how old were you for the Helen Keller virginity story?
	17.
	17.
	And was this like somebody you went to school with or were you on vacation?
	So I was on, I was at like my friend's birthday party, so kind of on vacation, and I met him at the beach, and we hung out, and then...
	How was he?
	He was also 17.
	Okay.
	And then we started texting and I went back out to see him and that's when it happened.
	But is this one of those things where he was just trying to be funny?
	No, I thought so.
	I thought so, but no, he wasn't.
	He was very aggressive with it.
	17 years old?
	He also left.
	I did.
	I left to the grave.
	God damn, bro.
	They get started early with the crazy shit.
	What the fuck?
	I'm not really sure how he even got into that.
	It's a very weird role play.
	Damn, bro.
	Can I go to a 90s school girl or something?
	17-year-old's doing some crazy shit.
	Yeah, no, I just...
	I had a similar...
	God damn, save that for your 20s at least.
	What the fuck?
	Maybe your 30s.
	I don't think that should ever be happening.
	Yeah, or yeah.
	Wait, you don't think what?
	I don't think anybody ever needs to roleplay Helen Keller during sex.
	I'm going to try to, but you can.
	Wait, so like you met this, but you hung out with him before, right?
	Yeah, like once.
	Was he also kind of like a little aggressive, like aggressive with his jokes or whatever?
	He made like jokes that some people would perceive as offensive.
	Like for example, my friend asked him how tall he was, so then he asked her how much she weighs.
	That's valid.
	I think that's valid actually.
	That's valid.
	And then also he also like, I'm a fucking legend.
	He also had like a poster in his like dorm room that his dorm room?
	Yeah, it happened.
	That was on vacation.
	It was, but he, okay, so I live in Florida.
	So like it was my friend's birthday and she was having it at like a hotel that was on the beach.
	So I say vacation.
	And he went to a college that's right next to it.
	So we hung out on the beach and then he we started texting and he invited me back and I visited him.
	Was it when you say dorm room, like I know some dorm rooms, there's like bunk beds.
	Yeah, it was.
	Like triple.
	Was it a triple or how many people lived in the room?
	Just two.
	Yeah.
	Was his roommate there at the time?
	No, no.
	Okay.
	I wouldn't have waited.
	So how much a sock on the door?
	How much time?
	So you met him?
	You said a week went by?
	I don't remember the exact time.
	But okay, so you met him once.
	Yeah.
	And then, like, timeline here, met him once, but you didn't hook up when you first met him, correct?
	Not late.
	Like, you got his.
	You met at the beach, got the number.
	Then you planned for a second meetup, which was in his dorm room.
	Yeah.
	So, second meetup in his dorm room, and then you pretty much got right down to business?
	No, we like watched a movie and stuff first.
	Okay, but that's when the Helen Keller thing.
	Wait, so just to be clear.
	Helen Keller doesn't talk.
	She doesn't talk about it being too loud.
	She never even.
	I started laughing and he got aggressive and put his hand over my mouth and said, shut up, bitch.
	Was he drunk?
	No.
	This is a peculiar story.
	Very peculiar.
	I know maybe when he's allowed and he's like, Dorman's not here.
	So wait, like what?
	At what point?
	Like, it was just in the middle.
	He was like, be Helen Keller.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So random.
	Normal, missionary.
	And then he just says, I want to roleplay as Helen Keller.
	Were you loud?
	Wait, did you tell him you were, you told him you were virgin?
	Yes, he knew.
	He knew.
	And so this is the guy you picked to take you.
	Okay, well, the reason I picked him is because I probably would change it if I could now, but like I kind of was scared for my first time, so I wanted to get it over with somebody I didn't know.
	So in case it was like embarrassing, it wouldn't like I wouldn't have to see that person again.
	Interesting.
	What in the game of women?
	I wouldn't choose that way now, but 17-year-old me, that's it.
	So like second date, then basically.
	Like second time meeting him, you guys.
	So how much, so he met you on the beach, got your phone number.
	He approached you or you approached him or how did it work?
	He approached me, but like we he had a friend with him at the time we met and then like him and his friend ended up hanging out with me and my friend whose birthday was.
	Like right then and there on the date.
	Yeah, and then we got the exchange numbers.
	Well yeah, we like went up to my friend's hotel room.
	We like played like cards against humanity.
	And then like when he was leaving.
	So how much time did you hang out that first time?
	Probably like five hours.
	Five hours.
	And then you went over to his dorm, watched the movie, and then Helen Keller.
	And I'm just curious, like, so you've, I mean, that was when you were 17.
	You're 23 now.
	I'm sure you've had other.
	22.
	I just turned 22.
	Wait.
	Are my notes.
	Oh, sorry, my notes got all out of order here.
	22, excuse me.
	So just turned 22.
	I'm sure you've had the other dating experiences.
	I'm just curious, like, because you said I just wanted to get out of the way, losing it, or whatever, the virginity.
	Would you, were you making, like, subsequent men wait to have sex?
	I don't know.
	I don't understand the question.
	Like, why are we trying to get over with it?
	The subsequent men that you hooked up with, I'm assuming you have hooked up with subsequent men.
	Like, would you make them, some women make one men wait for sex.
	Would you make them wait for sex?
	Like, now?
	Like, who I'm seeing now?
	Sure.
	Some of the people that you've dated, like, after that, how do you make them wait for them?
	I mean, I do that now because I feel like I just value myself a little bit better nowadays.
	So, like, I now make them wait, but like, back then, like, right after it happened, no, I was kind of going through like a phase.
	Right.
	So, when you say now you make them wait, what does that look like?
	Like, I would never like have sex on like the first date or like I don't make them wait like a long time.
	I'd probably say like five dates.
	Did you have any like five dates?
	Okay.
	Relationships prior to losing Virginia to him, like any boyfriends.
	So, what made you want to like get it over with and lose it with the random rather than with a boyfriend that you were dating before?
	Um, well, I don't even know.
	Like, I was, I was, yeah, I was a little bit scared because were you talking during the past or that?
	Were you being too loud?
	No, like doormates, like, sorry, continue answering their thing.
	It was normal.
	Like, he just randomly said it to me.
	So random.
	Yeah.
	Because someone in the chat said maybe she was just like talking not a lot.
	No, I swear I was not.
	I feel like most virgins are like doing dirty talk.
	And also, I like, I can, I, I understand jokes.
	Like, my sense of humor is offensive.
	So, like, I understand when it is a joke.
	Sure.
	And this was not a joke.
	And so you're currently seeing somebody or?
	Yeah, but we're not like officially together.
	How long have you guys been talking or whatever?
	A year, but like off and on.
	Whoa.
	Okay, hold on.
	Did you make this guy wait?
	Yes.
	Is he still waiting?
	No.
	Okay.
	I thought you said you've been single for two years.
	I am.
	But You've been seeing this guy for one year.
	Yeah, but we've never been official.
	Like, we've never put a label on it.
	So, you're having, but you're having sex with him.
	You're dating.
	Sometimes.
	Are you sleeping with other men?
	No.
	During your dating.
	During the one-year period.
	I have slept with other men while you've been in this one-year period with me.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Not only one other guy.
	How long?
	Wait, so how long did you make this guy wait?
	Yeah, I think it was like five dates.
	And then what about that one other guy that was in between?
	Yeah, that was like the first date.
	I don't do that anymore.
	This is what sometimes is kind of crazy.
	But that was also just for a hookup.
	Like, I wasn't trying to meet somebody to get away from me.
	Furthering the stereotype of all Catholic girls.
	I don't get this thing of like, okay, I don't actually have any qualms when it comes to sleeping with someone quickly.
	If it's just to hook up, I'll, well, of course, do it right away.
	But then the guy that is worthy of something longer term or continuous or even a relationship, he gets to wait.
	That's always confusing to me.
	And the other confusing thing to me is like, as a guy, look, you're free to do whatever you want.
	You lose your virginity within 30 seconds of meeting some total fuckboy.
	And then the next guy who comes along who you want a relationship with, I suppose you can make him wait six months.
	As a guy, though, I would be like, hold up.
	The first time you ever had sex, you were a virgin.
	And the expectation there would be, well, the first time you have sex, there would be almost an expectation that that would be the instance in which women choose to wait a longer period of time before having sex is when you lose your virginity.
	But women are doing this shit like in reverse almost.
	Like you lose your virginity just randomly.
	Yeah, I can't explain my 17-year-old lovers.
	I would like to ask you, like I said, I'm not like that anymore.
	That's fine.
	I just would be like, if some girl told me, by the way, Brian, I lost my virginity within 30 minutes of meeting some random dude on the beach who said some weird shit to me while we were fucking.
	But for you, Brian, now that I don't have my virginity, I want to wait till date number five.
	I wouldn't necessarily say like we have to wait.
	I kind of like that question around on you, though.
	Are you going to value a woman more, like date-wise, if you meet her and she fucked you the first hour?
	Exactly.
	Or if you went on cover dates and like she had, you felt like she had a little bit more morals.
	Are you more likely to end up dating her and staying with her because you respected her a little bit more?
	Exactly.
	That's what I'm saying.
	So that's, I kind of pull that question out.
	I mean, so in this specific situation, you had a woman who's a virgin here who slept with the guy relatively quickly.
	It has really no bearing.
	Well, I'm talking about just like her dating one at the year.
	Right.
	But so while I do think the quickness and rapidity with which somebody sleeps with you could be a marker for their promiscuity or past promiscuity or their body count, it doesn't necessarily like if a girl sleeps with you quickly, it doesn't necessarily mean that she has a high body count or she's promiscuous.
	Correct.
	It could just be that, but she probably does.
	No, actually, not necessarily.
	It could be a great indicator.
	But I mean, for me, I don't have any qualms with hooking up relatively quickly.
	Like, you wouldn't deep, it wouldn't de-value in your mind as far as how quickly she, like, whether you were dateable or not.
	No, I don't think it would have, it certainly wouldn't have any impact on my yeah, from all the guys like I've experienced going out with, like they usually don't want to date you if you have sex with them the first time because then they think you're like dirty or something.
	That's that's that's just gonna hoe into a housewife.
	Yeah, that's what I've heard.
	Um I can't speak for every man, but that's that's usually what I hear, and that's kind of why I've like because I do, I want to get married someday and I want to like I want a husband, you know, so I'm trying to.
	Well, I mean, but if so, here's the thing though: is that typically I don't think men are gonna do this game where they're going to, so they're gonna do, I don't think men are gonna do this test.
	So it's like they're going to do a test where they're going to attempt to sleep with you.
	And if you do sleep with him, you have failed the test.
	And had you not slept with him, he would have otherwise pursued you for a serious and long-term relationship.
	I don't know if that's like a thing a guy would do is to employ a test.
	I don't think that would be initial.
	I don't think they're like purposely doing that, but like just guys have told me that.
	I don't know.
	It's better to do that.
	I don't think they pick up.
	You can protect yourself a lot better.
	Isn't that like the idea of conquest?
	Isn't the idea like I'm just going to go get another notch in the old belt and it's not to pursue and they'll lie about it, right?
	But it's also like, yeah, I want you to go into a house.
	I want to have a long-term relationship with you, baby.
	I promise.
	Yeah, but they're less likely to lie five dates away.
	I promise, honey, I really do love you.
	And then they just like ghost you never talk to you again.
	But they're likely not to be able to integrate.
	It definitely happens, but I would say like what you're doing makes a lot of sense because guys who have the intentions of just sleeping with a woman are oftentimes not going to go on five dates with the same woman.
	They're oftentimes going to want to seal the deal for you.
	I don't know.
	That runs contrary to a lot of the stories I've heard from the women here where they're like, one chick was like the guy went after her for a year and then the second he got it, he was out.
	Yeah.
	Just like that.
	And it's like, I don't know.
	So I don't know.
	I think that's like the expression.
	I would say, but that's like an anomaly.
	Me and Brian have some disagreements in this arena, right?
	Which is good.
	But I would say that a really big indicator, and I think most men would agree with me and most women, that a big indicator of female promiscuity, if she sleeps with you immediately the first night, probably a pretty good indicator.
	But I mean, we have an example right here.
	I also have a low body count.
	I just want to point that out.
	But she was a virgin.
	Her body count was zero.
	She slept with a guy within they knew each other for a while.
	But it was a marker of promiscuity.
	So here, let me kind of like throw this back.
	It actually was a marker of promiscuity because she said after he slept with her, she went in a phase, a promiscuous phase, right?
	Where you slept with multiple men.
	That's what I was saying.
	Not because of that.
	Yeah, but it was a sign.
	How would that not be a sign of that?
	Wouldn't that be a sign of that?
	Like, if she was willing to sleep with him so quickly, and then as soon as that was done, she slept with multiple other men after that.
	It was more than a moment.
	But wait, wait, wait.
	Let me challenge Andrew on this.
	All right.
	Okay, but so in we have to look at this timeline-wise.
	Yes, she did go ahead, and afterwards, there was a string of what sounds like one-night stands.
	In that specific moment, though, when she had just lost her virginity, had she—I mean, time moves in one direction, so she didn't—like, that happened after the fact.
	So if you're first to arrive and then assume it developed into a long-term relationship, for example, it's not clear to me if— Yeah, okay, that's fair.
	I understand what you're saying.
	Let me counter, though, by saying, okay, you're guy two.
	Okay.
	And you go in and she tells you this story, okay?
	And then sleeps with you the first night.
	Do you think she's promiscuous or not?
	Wait, tells me.
	Tells this story, how the virginity is gone, sleeps with you that same night.
	Would you gauge this as being a woman who likely is going to be promiscuous going down the road or less promiscuous going down the road?
	And she's already done it.
	Yeah, so you're guy two.
	Guy two.
	Would she be promiscuous down the road?
	Yeah, would you take it as a sign she's going to be more or less promiscuous if after this happens with this guy, she sleeps with you immediately first night also?
	Or would you take it as a sign that she's going to she made a mistake and is going to be chased now?
	That was what I meant when I said I flipped the question around.
	Yeah, like I said, this is not how I act anymore.
	I was 17 during this.
	Yeah, I'm sorry we're talking about you like we're not here because we're totally having a sub-argument and just using you as the focal point.
	I'm sorry about that, but it's because we're trying to rationalize it, that's all.
	I don't.
	It would, I mean, certainly it is a bit more promiscuous than if I was the first one.
	If I'm number two and I'm hearing the story, losing your virginity within hours of meeting.
	Yeah, I'm just saying there wouldn't be a number two without number one, right?
	Because otherwise you're number one.
	Right.
	Why would it feel more promiscuous with number one?
	So I'm just saying it still would be a sign, I think, of promiscuity.
	Even if a virgin gives it up within, you know, six hours or whatever, that would be still a sign to me of promiscuity.
	Yes, before that, not promiscuous.
	So would it be a sign of promiscuity if she did sleep with the first man she ever sleeps with relatively quickly, but they actually ended up in a long-term relationship?
	And that wouldn't be a sign of promiscuity then, no.
	Okay.
	But if there's a guy two, I think that guy two would objectively.
	So guy two establishes the promiscuity if she sleeps with him quickly.
	Well, I think the fact that you give up the virginity at 17 in eight hours already establishes an idea.
	Eight hours.
	We were talking for like a week.
	Okay, okay.
	You're talking for a week.
	I'm saying in person.
	In person.
	In person.
	I still think that that would be a big red flag to any guy two that this would be a sign of promiscuous behavior going forward.
	So you would say not to date the woman or simply you would just be sign up.
	I would say that any reasonable man, I wouldn't, I don't know that I would say not to date her, but I'm saying I think any reasonable man who's guy two sleeps with her within a couple hours, let's say.
	This is all hypothetical.
	I'm sorry.
	So after a couple hours, right?
	Sure.
	I think that he would definitely, if he heard that story, go, okay, this chick, she's, you know what I mean?
	She gives it up real quick to a guy.
	I think that they would establish promiscuity from that, yeah.
	He would hit it and quit?
	Why the double standard, though, too?
	Because we value different things.
	But why not a woman view the man as I don't know?
	Well, I do know why women don't view it that way.
	So this.
	Why not?
	I mean, why shouldn't it be a red flag for us as well?
	Because, well, I think it should be.
	I think it should be a red flag for women if you have a promiscuous man, but it's not.
	In fact, what I hear is the story of if other women don't desire him and he's not sleeping around, I'm less attracted to him.
	Than if more women desire him, then I'm more attracted to him.
	That's what I hear more than anything.
	Yeah.
	For men, I hear the exact opposite thing.
	If she's out there sleeping around, I'm totally revolted by it.
	And so it seems like I'm surprised.
	I don't know why, but I do agree.
	Yeah, I tend to agree with you that promiscuity in men and women, bad.
	Totally against my religion.
	I think in like the men aspect of it, it comes down to like spreading your seed, right?
	Like, you do not have to be aware of yourself.
	I think you can make virtuous.
	I think you can make a good evolutionary argument for this, yes.
	And that the reason that men tend to stay somewhat revolted by promiscuous women is because of paternal establishment.
	So they think, if you're only sleeping with me, your babies are going to be mine.
	And I know that for sure.
	And so I can understand.
	Now, I have a different worldview than that, but I think that it's plenty acceptable for most people to at least be able to rationalize this this way.
	We all get our period sinking so we can all get pregnant at the same time.
	Wait, coming back to this, Andrew.
	Okay.
	Coming back to this.
	So spread them seeds.
	Well, so if I can just play a comparison here, because I think this sort of stemmed from my qualms about, well, you lose your virginity relatively quickly, but now you have this new standard of I'm going to wait five dates for new guys, but I would feel a type of way as a guy if I knew that she lost her virginity, but now she's making me wait five dates.
	I'm not telling people that.
	Like, well, I guess I just, hey, guess what happens?
	This guy, you've been, despite seeing him for a year, you guys aren't boyfriend, girlfriend yet.
	It's not clear to me if there's a component of monogamy.
	It's not, if he asked me to be his girlfriend, I would.
	Have you asked him?
	No, I'm scared.
	I mean, that should be on you, to be honest.
	Are you guys monogamous?
	I mean, I'm pretty sure he's seeing other people.
	Oh, so you're tolerating the whole situation?
	Kind of.
	Yeah.
	I mean, so he's getting his hag and eating it too.
	So you're not making, you're not giving him that ultimatum of, hey, either like we're doing this or we're not.
	You're a lot of people who are best of both worlds.
	It's kind of more like a friends with benefits.
	I also enjoy his company as a friend.
	And honestly, we spend more time hanging out as friends rather than...
	But you've never brought up, like, you don't have any qualms with him sleeping with other women.
	It doesn't bother you?
	I've like not seriously, no.
	Like, when he like brings up another girl, I like roll my eyes and I'd be like, oh, whatever, don't talk about that.
	So, but if I understand this correctly, it does.
	Yeah, it does.
	But then again, I'm not sure.
	I don't think I like him.
	I think I understand.
	Exactly.
	Hang on, hang on.
	I think I understand the situation a little bit.
	So while this is an undesirable situation for you to be in, you like him to the point, you like him enough that you are going to tolerate this undesirable behavior because having him in your life is more beneficial or more valuable to you than you losing him despite having this undesirable component.
	You're too far from the mic.
	I just don't do good like when things are awkward.
	So I don't want, like, he's also a good friend of mine.
	So I don't want to ruin our friendship.
	By sleeping with him.
	I think that that bus has left the depot, right?
	I don't want to, like, because I know if I tell him, like, that's how I feel, then he, um, it's going to be like awkward if he says no, but I still want to be his friend, like, because I enjoy his company.
	So I know that that's like kind of my own faults.
	And like, I'm trying, I've been trying to get better about that when leaving when the situation is like not beneficial to me.
	So I'm aware of it.
	It's just a matter of I know.
	This situation is completely not beneficial to you in your life in some shape or form.
	I know.
	I mean, yeah, I know.
	So, a couple things.
	So, are you?
	You said that one point you did see another guy.
	Yes, and he knew about that.
	Was he fine with it?
	Yes.
	Cuck.
	No, he's not.
	He's so good.
	He doesn't like saying, hey, he just doesn't give a shit.
	Yeah, right.
	He just doesn't think he just doesn't really care.
	Well, I think you need to take that at face value.
	Like, what's happening to you?
	Yeah, no.
	You know, to Brian's point, I would actually like to hear an answer to this question because Brian, he basically stalemates the board with this and pisses me off because I don't have a great, I don't have a great answer to it, right?
	I don't feel like it's a checkmate, but it's a stalemate.
	So Brian says this, and this makes sense to me.
	Okay, so in your early years, before you got to me, you were sleeping with everything that was around.
	And now you get to me and say, I really, really like you and hated all those guys, but you have to wait.
	From the perspective of the man, that's pretty brutal, right?
	That's a pretty brutal thing to say.
	It's like, wait, you like me, but I have to wait to experience this.
	But these other guys you didn't like didn't have to wait can make that make sense, right?
	And I actually haven't heard a great answer yet for this.
	I feel like a woman would be trying to do that to try to create value for herself in his eyes if she had done this before, but is like trying to change her ways and show this to him that he would value her more and be more likely to date her rather than, oh, I can just hit it and quit it tonight and never talk to her again because maybe she's really into Brian and really wants him to value her and see the worth in her.
	So she's trying to change her way in that way and have him value her.
	I don't think a woman by withholding sex has ever negotiated her way into a long-term relationship by simple virtue of her withholding sex.
	Because I think what would either happen is that if he's interested in you and he wants to, he'd be inclined to have a relationship with you.
	It's not clear to me if having sex with him will prevent him from still wanting to pursue a relationship with you.
	And I mean, that's been.
	But then wouldn't it just be a manipulation tactic?
	Could be.
	So isn't it a false?
	But this is where he stalemates it and why it pisses me off because of that answer, right?
	So that answer is, would it creates value for me in his eyes, right?
	Okay, but if it didn't, if that didn't, would you still sleep with him the first night?
	And the answer is, well, yeah.
	It's like, so then aren't you faking virtue?
	And that, that is when, and that's when Brian says.
	She doesn't want to sleep with him on the first night.
	No, I don't know.
	But hang on, hang on.
	So what Brian says here, right, as frustrating as it is, because I don't have the great response to this.
	How's that not faking virtue?
	If she ordered, and so remember, the entailment here is: I do this to create value for me in your eyes.
	But if that doesn't create value in my eyes, but instead sleeping with you creates that value, would you do that?
	The answer would have to be yes, because that's what you're creating the value for, right?
	And he says, well, then you're faking virtue.
	And it's like, I don't know how to get around that exactly.
	That's a good point.
	It's a good point.
	Like her level of comfort also makes sense, though, that she's not going to want to sleep with someone after her first date after what she's been given, the experience she was given.
	I'm not even disagreeing that that's true.
	Or not knowing what his value is.
	I'm not disagreeing with this.
	I think it's like a comfortable thing.
	I'm set a time limit where I tell them, like, I'm not sleeping with you until we go on five dates.
	I purposely don't on the first date.
	And like, if it feels right, not on the first date, but like if it, I don't put a time limit on it.
	It's basically what I'm saying.
	Well, listen, I understand because what you guys are doing is you're kind of individualizing this, which is fine, right?
	You can individualize it.
	Maybe their preference isn't this.
	I agree with you, right?
	But if it is that I'm making you wait, not because I wouldn't sleep with you if I thought that created the value, but instead of making you wait because I think it creates value to you for me that I don't do this, then I don't see how an entailment of that isn't I'm faking virtue.
	I just, I can't see how to rationalize.
	Can you?
	The only thing that makes me think the only way I can rationalize it a little bit, and I don't even think I agree with it.
	I'm just trying to put the pieces together in my brain is if you are going out with the intent to prove the virtue to yourself and not the man, you're going out there to prove it.
	Doesn't that cope?
	No, totally cope.
	That's what I'm saying.
	The only way I can rationalize it in my head is like you have, I don't know, some come to Jesus moment and you realize this is how you're going to rationalize it to yourself moving forward.
	But I think Brian's got us there.
	Yeah, it's a bad one.
	It doesn't, it does.
	So I'm going to destroy this argument.
	Not today, but I will.
	It is a stalemate because it's true, right?
	If the answer is, I would do this if I thought this was more pleasing, instead I'm doing this because I think to him it creates more value.
	He sees me differently.
	And if we took that out of the equation, I don't see how it's not faking virtue.
	But this also has to be, I'm sure.
	I'm also doing, like, I'm also doing it to not get myself hurt.
	Because for me, when I do sleep with someone, I normally get feelings for them.
	So waiting will help me see if this person is someone I actually really do want to date.
	But so here, here's where it gets complicated, right?
	So this whole waiting for sex thing becomes a bit more believable when a woman has a track record of upholding it.
	But you said that, so this guy who you've currently been seeing, you made him wait five dates, if I recall?
	Probably about.
	I didn't like say five dates, but estimating, yeah.
	Okay, but then in between that, you said there was one guy who you had a, you hooked up with immediately.
	Yeah.
	So it's not, it's not an actual value you hold.
	It's just sort of this arbitrary values change.
	Yeah, might have had a lot of things.
	Snap, snip, snap, back and forth.
	So that doesn't sound like a snip step.
	It sounds like she had a bad experience.
	No, no, no, but hold on, hold on.
	So this is the timeline here.
	And I don't know the full timeline because I don't know all the people you've dated.
	Lost your virginity quickly.
	Waited, then made this guy wait five dates.
	That was in a long-term relationship.
	But further, further, okay, I know, I'm excluding things.
	Then further along in the timeline, you reverted back to sleeping with somebody quickly.
	So that is a back and forth.
	Lost her virginity easily.
	Made this guy wait five dates.
	One night stand.
	One night stand or whatever it was.
	Yeah, and that's definitely like.
	That's a flip-flop.
	It is.
	And I've been trying to better myself in that way because I don't want to just give it up on the first date.
	So like I've been actively working on it.
	I want to have that value.
	But sometimes like my self-esteem gets low.
	And a lot of the times like when I have sex with somebody, it brings it up for some reason.
	I can't say exactly why, but that's just how it is.
	I know that that's not necessarily a healthy way of thinking, which is why I'm actively trying to change it.
	Well, so here's kind of, I guess, the perspective that I'm trying to get at.
	So if I can sort of flip the script a little bit.
	This would be like a guy saying when it comes to like, okay, you have casual sex with these guys in your past, and then the guy who you actually want a relationship with, you make him wait.
	Be like me saying, you don't understand.
	Those women were just for hookups.
	So of course, I have notes on this.
	I'm going to be reading off the notes.
	Of course, I bought them expensive stuff.
	I took them to the best dining places.
	I even paid their bills.
	But you're different from them.
	I actually see you as a potential girlfriend wife.
	So you have to wait for those benefits.
	So we should go out to McDonald's and you should pay, by the way.
	Once again, I'm not purposely making them wait.
	Are you just going on dates with women then?
	Yeah, I like that.
	Yeah, no, I understand your point as well.
	And I'm trying to explain myself like, my values have changed since that time.
	So, yeah, that's all.
	I think Brian got to get something on this.
	Did you have something on this?
	It sounded like you had something on this.
	You?
	Yeah.
	Healing is not a linear process, so it makes sense that she has to take steps back to take steps forward.
	Because we were talking about the flip-flops, but it's a very, very common occurrence when someone is changing their moral view that they're going to fall back on it.
	Sure.
	And they're going to change.
	Right.
	And that's okay.
	That's part of growth.
	Yeah, that's cool for her, but I'm trying to explain the male perspective and why a guy might view this as bullshit or frustrating.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, I totally see.
	I think of a child.
	She can do whatever she truly genuinely values you and wants to be with you, then he will be willing to wait.
	I don't think a man that is unwilling to wait, I think that says a lot about who they are as a person a lot more than the woman.
	I think a woman who truly likes you, even though she knows that you treated every single girl prior to her that you've been with, whether it was long-term relationship, or maybe we can even exclude long-term relationships.
	And she knows that you've had, you know, some casual hookups, one-night stands, and you would pay for the date for the casual hookups.
	You would bring them on trips.
	You would do all these things.
	You would provide, you would protect.
	But now that all of a sudden he really likes you and you really like him, he wants to actually pull back on providing.
	He doesn't want to pay for dates for you because you're the one.
	You're the one, but he doesn't want to provide.
	And you know that all his prior relationships and girlfriends and women he's hooked up with got far better treatment.
	You wouldn't be upset about that as a girl.
	Yeah, but I think that's a very different than waiting for someone to have sex with you.
	How is that priority?
	Because I don't think that.
	That's an analogy.
	So it's not a one-to-one.
	Yeah.
	It doesn't, what's the term?
	It doesn't like print on one-to-one.
	I just don't think it's fair to assume a woman.
	I don't think it should be expected of her to give it up easily on the first date because she made the mistake the first time.
	No, she doesn't have to.
	I'm just sharing the guy's perspective here.
	I understand the guy's perspective because I'm bi.
	I date women.
	If a woman came to me and told me her story, my first thought wouldn't be, man, it's so unfair that I don't get sex right now.
	I would think, that's so awful that you went through that.
	I'm so sorry that you experienced that.
	Who's saying that something awful?
	Who's saying that something awful?
	What she experienced was kind of awful.
	You think it was abuse?
	I've never said that.
	Yeah, I put words in my mouth.
	Quirky, yeah, I didn't get any trauma or anything.
	I mean, it was not trauma.
	It wasn't an ideal.
	She consents she had consensual sex.
	Why are you trying to paint it like pathologize the situation?
	I'm not pathologizing just a lot of people.
	I mean, you have a tendency to do that, but go on.
	Do not.
	That's you're saying what?
	It sounded like overwhelm from what she explained.
	It was not an overall positive experience.
	It's not how I personally.
	It's not abuse if you have a negative experience.
	I never said it was abuse.
	I never said that.
	You said trauma.
	Yeah, you can get trauma from something that's not abuse.
	So, like, having a like having a regret.
	I don't want to speak, I don't want to speak for her and say, I do not have trauma from her.
	Having weird for her.
	Let's say she really regretted it.
	Is that trauma?
	No.
	No, and actually, having shame is a very good thing in society.
	We have lost the ability to have shame about things that are shameful, and you cannot grow and you cannot learn without shame and regret.
	I agree.
	That's exactly why I've been trying to do it.
	Exactly.
	It's okay.
	My entire point was to not speak for her and whether her experience was traumatizing or not.
	My entire point was: if I heard from a person that I was interested in dating, that they had prior negative experiences, and they said, Because of my negative experiences, I want to wait until the fifth date, I would respect that.
	I wouldn't say that.
	Okay, as long as you're totally fine, if a man had a negative experience and you're saying that the woman is not allowed to feel a certain type of way if she finds out that a guy that she's dating treated his exes in this sort of way, bought food, bought gifts, paid for dates, took her on trips, whatever it is.
	I think it's like a very common thing.
	I think a lot of guys with their first loves, they do over-pour and they do over-gift and they do, and they learn from that situation and they do take steps back and they do pull back.
	And I think that's a very healthy response to being taken advantage of.
	I'm not sitting here and saying her situation, she got taken advantage of.
	What you're explaining is a man who got taken advantage of by their first love.
	So as a result, now going into their next relationships, yeah, they probably are not going to be going all out again because they're trying to protect themselves.
	And I think that's a really healthy response.
	I think what she's experienced, what she told me, it seems like she's having a very healthy response and learning from a mistake.
	Except you're including one component in here.
	I'm not saying in these scenarios, hypothetical scenarios, that the woman mistreated the man.
	Okay.
	I'm not saying that they had a bad experience because they did these things.
	Right.
	Okay.
	By getting a woman gifts, paying for dates, etc.
	Okay.
	I'm just saying a woman might feel like, hold on, does she really care, or excuse me, does he really care about me?
	Because in all his other relationships, he did the most for his girlfriends.
	Am I just like sex to him?
	Does he not really care about me?
	Because in all his other relationships, he did XYZ.
	I'm not getting XYZ.
	Am I less important to him because of that?
	What's going on here?
	So you would feel less important if a woman lost her virginity within eight hours and wanted to make you wait five dates.
	I would think it's a raw deal.
	I understand.
	I get more what you're saying now.
	I get more of what Brian's point is.
	Like, he has got a steal meat there.
	Yeah, I get the point, but don't you think it's good for people to learn from him?
	I think it's an enormous green flag because it can learn from your past, but it shows that she went through a past experience and she learned from it and she grew.
	And that, to me personally, is incredibly important when you're looking for a partner.
	You're forgetting the arbitrary nature with which she has this standard because she stated herself that she lost her virginity quickly, made this new guy wait five dates, and then after that, slept with somebody quickly.
	It's a totally arbitrary virtue or value.
	So, where is the growth there?
	If you make a guy wait three months to have sex with him, and then immediately, once you break up with him, you go and fuck a guy the first night after meeting him after the breakup.
	You would look back at that and be like, wait, why did I, she went and fucked this guy immediately, but I waited three months?
	So, it was never about virtue, it was never about value.
	It was just some arbitrary thing.
	She was trying to withhold sex to get compliance from me in some way, essentially a game.
	Fake virtue.
	No, I generally wasn't trying to do that.
	Like, I was genuinely trying to be better for you.
	You don't think you were.
	Okay.
	Did they just want to?
	So, just so you understand, and this is that thing I was talking about earlier, where sometimes when you're talking about a situation, I think it's directed at me.
	It's really not directed at you.
	It's just parsing this idea of the perception of how a man might feel under these situations, right?
	So, I can understand how a man would feel that he was getting the raw into the deal or that he was being emotionally manipulated or that a woman was faking virtue.
	I can understand.
	Whether that was your motivation or not, I just assume it wasn't.
	I'm just explaining that from the male perspective, I can understand why they would think that.
	I can assume.
	I can understand that more.
	Anyways, let me read a couple chats here.
	We have William the Mars.
	Thank you, man.
	One of the most valuable things a woman can give to a man is her purity.
	Once that value is gone, it's gone forever.
	Okay, Billiam, appreciate it.
	Thank you for the super chat.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Gone forever?
	Is it gone forever?
	I don't know.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Appreciate it, man.
	We have a lot of chats here, actually.
	Well, you can't get a green.
	You're not getting the behind.
	You can't get the virginity back.
	Okay.
	Props again to Blue Shirt.
	Wait, did I already read this one?
	Props again to Blue Shirt for visiting her child.
	She put up for adoption.
	W Woman, angels are rejoicing over you and your child.
	When is the Cumber Gremlin going to be allowed on?
	Andrew is a heretic.
	What is that?
	What's talking about destiny?
	Okay, Giovanni.
	I don't know.
	Maybe eventually we'll get him on.
	All right, we have Lol Paladins here.
	I did like how you softened the blow of heretic with Cumer Gremlin.
	That was amazing.
	Bad logic, Andrew.
	You just heard a perfect example of a woman that was willing to sleep with a man within an hour.
	Her body count was zero.
	This is why men prefer younger women easier, less baggage.
	Yeah, but I actually gross.
	But I actually brought that point up.
	Wait, why would that be gross?
	Yeah, wait, why is that gross?
	That sounded really gross.
	Okay, I'll pull back.
	You said that men prefer younger women because they have less fat.
	Yeah, that's a gross, thing to say.
	No, it's gross to target younger women because they have it's predatory.
	It's extremely predatory.
	Wow.
	How's it predatory?
	To target younger women because they have less experience.
	That's something that abusers and groomers purposely say they look at our victims that are less experienced.
	So this is the feminist loaded language.
	So you heard that green in your hair.
	So you use the term targeted, predatory, right?
	Yes.
	So couldn't I just say that women target wealthy and successful men and they're predatory for targeting wealthy and successful men?
	Yeah.
	Or is it just the reality, the sort of evolutionary biological reality that women tend to be attracted to men of status, men of means, for there's a couple reasons there.
	One, a guy of high status could have certain benefits to her and her children, right?
	So why is that any different than men preferring a younger woman who would be a better partner because she has not a better partner because she's younger.
	She's just easier to manipulate.
	That's genuinely, that's genuinely a thing that happens.
	I could actually make this other argument.
	Very, very often.
	Actually, so I can make another argument.
	So a woman who's, say, 33 and still single, she is perhaps because of the time clock when it comes to pregnancy.
	Look, you can get pregnant well into your late 30s, 40s.
	I can actually just make this argument about easier to manipulate.
	A woman who's a little more pressed to get into a relationship, she's easier to manipulate because she's like time's ticking.
	And I can manipulate.
	Hold on, let me make the argument.
	I can manipulate her better because she has a greater desire.
	Desire.
	No, there's another word I'm thinking of.
	A greater urgency.
	Because of her greater urgency to enter into a relationship, she must be easier to manipulate.
	That example also sounds like you're a gross person.
	That doesn't, that is not less gross.
	You're making them sound predatory.
	But you're saying that this person is purposely manipulating a woman that's not.
	No, he's not manipulating anything.
	No, no, no.
	You made the claim that younger women are easy to manipulate, but I could say that they are.
	Right.
	Hold on.
	I am making the argument that you could manipulate somebody at an older age for other reasons.
	Yes, that's also disgusting and predatory.
	But also.
	But that's also not an overwhelming problem in our society.
	Why do you jump to the conclusion that a man who airs?
	I got hit on considerably more by older men when I was 16.
	Okay, not interested in talking about that.
	Yeah, I'm talking about adult relationships.
	So we're talking about 18.
	Okay, so we'll talk fresh 18.
	Young woman means fresh 18.
	They just turned 18.
	Can they vote?
	Yes, but your brain is not fully developed.
	Then why are you voting?
	Why are you voting at 18?
	Because it's different.
	Why?
	Because, okay, so first of all, you can vote to affect my life.
	Do you know why that law is set into place and why 18 is considered an adult?
	It's so that they can enlist young people into the military because based on our physical young people or young or men.
	Men.
	Young men into the military.
	Because at 18 is when they are physically able to serve.
	No.
	That is based on 18.
	It is not based off of, oh, 18 is fully formed.
	Your brain is not fully formed until 25.
	You're fine.
	Now, I'm not saying that any 26-year-old going for an 18-year-old is predatory and problematic.
	However, that is a big issue that I do see often.
	I do see a lot of women, young women, 18 women, fresh into the dating scene, getting taken advantage of by 30-year-olds.
	How do you think?
	That is so what evidence, what evidence do you have that they're getting taken advantage of?
	Is it simply by virtue of them dating?
	Their experience.
	How is that?
	And they speak about their experiences.
	And they speak about it.
	Abusers and groomers specifically have been interviewed and have talked about the fact that they go for younger women because they are easier to mold.
	You have to stop making every man as if they're like being a pregnant person.
	Actually, I'm willing to.
	I'm totally willing to engage with this.
	I think that's fine.
	Not all men are abusers.
	Not all men are rapists.
	But an overwhelming majority of women have had a negative experience with a man.
	Totally agree.
	That is fact.
	So let's back up.
	I just want to make sure I understand.
	When should women be considered adults?
	I think women should be considered an adult and making adult decisions, probably around 25.
	Because of the prefrontal lobe?
	Because of the prefrontal lobe?
	Yes.
	The prefrontal lobe that begins degrading immediately after 25.
	I believe that a woman who is 25 is very different than a girl who's 18.
	That's so different.
	Wildly different.
	They have wildly different viewpoints.
	Why are they different?
	They have wild.
	They're inexperienced.
	Okay, but no, that's not what you're saying.
	Wait, wait.
	And the prefrontal lobe is also a matter of fact.
	Okay, so hang on.
	If you're going to make this justification, I need you to actually make it.
	Okay.
	Are you an adult at 25 because your prefrontal lobe is fully developed?
	I would say that's a factor.
	It's also experience.
	Okay, but experience is a dirty.
	A 21-year-old is like a young adult.
	But experience is arbitrary.
	You can have 19, 18-year-olds far more experienced than 25-year-olds.
	Yes.
	Because that is so, there's no way that we could base adulthood on experience.
	There would be no test we could give for experience.
	No.
	So if you're looking for physicality, the prefrontal lobe is it?
	For physicality, yes.
	Well, then, if that is the case, don't you think that women should not be able to vote until 25?
	I wouldn't say women shouldn't be able to vote.
	I would say...
	Well, we're talking about women being able to consent.
	So you don't think they should be able to consent until they're 25?
	I think voting, I'm not saying that no one can consent.
	I'm not saying no one can vote.
	But I thought they weren't doing that.
	I'm not saying that every single woman that is 30, she's 18, he's a 30-year-old.
	I'm not saying every single instance of women getting taken advantage of.
	I'm just following your logic.
	Are they adults at 25 or before?
	I feel like you're making a very broad blanket statement.
	I'm not making a broad based statement.
	I'm saying this is a problem that is happening.
	There are men that are doing this.
	Not all men.
	So when are women adults?
	When?
	When are they adults?
	I would say a human, I would consider an adult woman 25.
	If you consider them to only be adults at 25, why the fuck would you ever advocate that men or women can ever make any decision which would impact their life in the long term before the age of 25?
	Including consenting to sex.
	Because that's just the world we live in.
	That's not an answer.
	And also, but the age of consent is also not 18.
	It depends state to state.
	It's very, very different.
	Yeah, but I would guess that you would want to eliminate that for non-adults, right?
	It depends on the age range.
	I think an 18-year-old sex with an 18-year-old is very different than a 30-year-old.
	Sure, we'll go with that.
	I think it's very, very different.
	Yeah, we'll go with that.
	But if you're not smart enough or competent enough or experienced enough to make a decision about who you want to sleep with, regardless of their age, why the fuck would we give you consent to sleep with anyone?
	You're not experienced enough to make those decisions, right?
	Because it's not, it doesn't apply to all, and I'm not saying it applies to all.
	Again, I never said every single, I've never said that.
	I did say all.
	I've never said that.
	I asked you when all women are adults.
	When are all of them adults?
	I guess, okay, then I'll re-change my statement.
	It depends on the person.
	So how could you ever create a metric for it then?
	I think that people who are 25 should be going for people who are around the same age range.
	I think it's a very huge red flag when men who are 23 and older are going for 18 year olds, especially 18 year olds that are.
	There's 18 year olds that are still in high school.
	So they're graduating high school.
	So you think someone in high school should date someone who's a grown adult who has a nine-to-five marriage.
	When are they adults?
	It's weird.
	That's simple.
	It's weird.
	It's gross.
	It's weird.
	Just saying it gives you the ick.
	Yeah, it gives you ignorance.
	Can you give me an actual argument other than gives me the ick?
	Like an actual argument for why this is wrong.
	Yes, it puts a lot of women in having that blanket, it puts a lot of women in very, very uncomfortable situations.
	What are all the women that it's not?
	Okay, but that's you have it.
	Every relationship can be bad.
	They are choosing to make that decision.
	That doesn't mean that it's not gross.
	That doesn't mean that men that are purposely 30 years old targeting 18-year-olds are not a problem.
	Should mean they're not a gross.
	Do you think that based on the fact that they legally cannot be aware of that?
	Do you think that you should be able to outlaw it?
	No.
	Well, then how much of a problem could it be?
	Don't you usually outlaw behaviorality?
	All I said was gross.
	I said you.
	I don't disagree with it.
	I can disagree with an opinion.
	That doesn't mean we're going to base a law off of my opinion.
	Okay, so you...
	I don't speak for an entire country.
	Okay, so you don't think...
	I speak for me.
	So you...
	And I think that that's gross.
	Yeah, you just think it's icky.
	I think that's extremely icky.
	Yeah, sure.
	But you don't actually have an argument.
	Any 18-year-old, 19-year-old women that are watching this podcast.
	I agree.
	I would steer clear from I would say most men who are like 23 trying to date 18 year olds, it's because they're unable to get women their own age because they lack maturity.
	So let's move it back, okay, before you go off on these other diatribes, and we'll just stick with the one.
	Can you actually make a moral argument for why it would be wrong for a 30-year-old man to date an 18-year-old girl if they both consent to it?
	No, it's like a red flag.
	So it's not like it's kind of like you were saying with like a flight attendant.
	It's a red flag because there is flight attendants that maybe aren't sleeping with a bunch of guys, but there is a stereotype there that most of them are sleeping with a lot of guys.
	So, no, not all 30-year-olds who are dating 18-year-olds have negative intentions.
	However, I would say a lot do.
	There is a stereotype.
	I'm going to give you the caveat distinction.
	I would say that a slight or a flight attendant who is sleeping with a lot of men is doing something immoral.
	Right.
	Would you give me a 30-year-old advantage of an 18-year-old?
	Yeah, so I'm asking you to make the moral argument like I just did.
	That thing?
	Immoral.
	What about 30-year-old with 18-year-olds actually immoral?
	When they're both consenting.
	Yeah.
	It's just really.
	The fact that you don't see a problem with it is insane to me.
	Just say it's icky.
	It's insane to me.
	It's icky.
	It's insane.
	Oh, it's insane to me.
	A 23-year-old and I would never date an 18-year-old in high school.
	I think that's huge.
	He's not an adult.
	Well, first of all, at 18, they don't have to be an adult.
	What does a 30-year-old have in common with an 18-year-old girl?
	Why can't they date women?
	Why do you think that men and women have all this shit in common?
	They don't.
	They do.
	No, yeah.
	And my partner have a lot in common.
	What do you have in common?
	Witchcraft.
	We're both hot.
	We both are artists.
	There's a lot.
	They're both artists.
	Oh, but we both are.
	Okay, so then by this criteria.
	Hang on, you ready?
	By this criteria, we both have jobs.
	We both drive in cars.
	We both walk down streets.
	We both have hair.
	We have very similar passions.
	We have very similar desires.
	We both have the same viewpoints on marriage.
	We both have the same viewpoints on polyamory.
	We both have a lot of fun.
	And what do you do for fun?
	With him?
	No.
	What does he do for fun that you don't do for fun?
	Video games.
	Yeah, he plays video games.
	I play video games too, but we play different games.
	Yeah, but I mean, he plays.
	Yeah.
	He's a player.
	Hangs out.
	He's a player of the video games, right?
	Yeah, he plays video games.
	Hang out as a friend.
	Do you have the same friends?
	Not really like that.
	Like, it's like I'm friends with his friends, but they're his friends.
	If we broke up, I would never talk about it.
	What's the girliest thing that you do that he doesn't do?
	I don't know because he lets me paint his nails.
	I can put the eyeliner on.
	And honestly, he's the most attractive thing I've ever encountered.
	He's not a female.
	But if you put on eyeliner, that doesn't make him less of a man.
	If all it is is the idea of a commonality of interest, then I would just give you the same argument back.
	We both drive cars, we both have jobs, we both do this, we both do that, we both do all these things.
	We must have all this stuff in common.
	Not really.
	A commonality is not necessary between two people that they're interested in the same external things.
	That's not what creates a deep connection between human beings.
	For instance, if my wife really hated the type of food that I really liked, what the fuck would that have to do with us having anything in common?
	Nothing.
	Nothing.
	Honestly, that would have no bearing on whether or not we deeply loved each other.
	And I'm not sitting here and saying that there isn't 30-year-olds that are dating 18-year-olds and they have a healthy dynamic.
	I'm not saying that that is.
	I'm not saying you are.
	I'm just looking for this idea.
	If you tell me a flight attendant's out there sleeping with many, many men, I'm going to say that's immoral.
	I'm just asking you to say it's immoral for a 30-year-old to sleep with an 18-year-old and give me the justification for it.
	I wouldn't say it's immoral for them to sleep with an 18-year-old.
	I would say it's immoral if they're purposely targeting 18-year-olds.
	Okay, why would that be immoral?
	Because they're purposely targeting women with lower experiences, oftentimes because they're easier to manipulate and control.
	Let's just assume for a second that that's true, that these men like to have women around that they can manipulate and control.
	That's part of their dynamic.
	Do you agree with me that there's plenty of women who like to be manipulated and controlled?
	Or the younger women like to control dynamics.
	I think that that's a very, very rough topic because a lot of the women that put themselves in those situations come from very, very rough backgrounds.
	Yeah, I mean, so I think there is an argument to be made that maybe they had more respect for themselves.
	Yeah, and there's kinks that I disagree with.
	I'm not a kink shamer, but there's kinks that are yeah, I get it.
	But if you can't make, if you can't tell me why it's immoral, and you can just say, in a circumstance where this 30-year-old is targeting an 18-year-old, right, for nefarious purposes, then I would make the counter-argument that anybody targeting anybody for nefarious purposes, it's immoral, regardless of their age.
	So if an 18-year-old's targeting, or a 30-year-old's targeting an 18-year-old for a long-standing relationship, finds her to be beautiful, I think it's just more dangerous.
	What's the actual issue?
	It's more dangerous for an 18-year-old woman and a 30-year-old man than the other circumstances.
	I mean, what's the dangerous thing?
	While it would be more dangerous, there's also benefits, right?
	I guess there's benefits to an 18-year-old dating a 30-year-old.
	I would say overall for an overwhelming majority of people.
	Their round meatball donated $200.
	Thank you, Mr. Meepa.
	I'm on team 30 and 18.
	All right, he's on team 30.
	It's really amazing because there actually are really compelling arguments against the age gap argument.
	But the people who feel the most firmly against it never give any.
	They just say, it's gross.
	And I'm just like, you can't base your life on what's gross.
	If so, then we would have outlawed all sorts of things that you, you know, probably like LGBTQ.
	A lot of people find that gross.
	Do you think that that's acceptable?
	I think that that's a very different topic.
	Do you think it's acceptable that they do?
	Because zombie would find a dick.
	So it's, but I never once said we're going to outlaw 30-year-olds from dating 18-year-olds on the ground.
	I agree.
	You didn't.
	But if you have the response of telling people, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't.
	And you say, well, why?
	Why should?
	Because I think it's gross.
	That's what I said.
	I said, because a lot, a lot oftentimes, it sets women up for failure.
	It sets women up to being very, very toxic dynamic.
	Well, essentially.
	This is just something that we have.
	Essentially, every relationship now is set up in a toxic dynamic because most of these marriages are ending in divorce.
	So they seem like, regardless of the age group, they seem to be highly toxic because they're not lasting a long period of time.
	If you look at the UK, there's the Office. of Statistics in the UK.
	That's literally what it's called.
	Okay.
	They went through and they took all of the marriages that have ever happened ever in the UK, which included age gap marriages, to see if it was true that those types of relationships failed more than relationships within a similar age.
	They couldn't find any significant deviation whatsoever.
	Yeah, I would assume they wouldn't.
	Why?
	Because oftentimes the 18-year-old in question is getting groomed.
	Oh, well, this is interesting.
	Getting groomed.
	Wait a second.
	That's the case.
	Then I would expect to see those relationships work out more.
	Yeah, they would.
	They don't.
	There's no significant deviation between the people who are engaged in a similar age relationship and those who are in this age gap relationship of 20 years or more, by the way.
	No significant difference.
	If it was true that those younger women were being groomed or something like this by some type of super predator who brainwashed them, I would expect that you would see those relationships have a much bigger longevity than similar age with the same experience, but you don't.
	That's really weird.
	So my grandma actually left my grandpa for a man that was 30 years younger than her.
	They stayed married for 55 years and he was right there on her deathbed.
	How old was she and how old was he?
	He was, I think, 20, 21, and she was in her 40s, 50s, almost 50.
	Predator.
	Fucking primer.
	Predator.
	Predator.
	Yeah.
	Stalking through the jungle for the chest.
	Never met two people more in love.
	I mean, I never said it was every single circumstance, but it's something that we shouldn't put pressure on.
	I have something we shouldn't be putting out.
	It's something we shouldn't be normalizing, in my personal opinion.
	We're not normalizing it.
	We're just saying.
	Well, I have a personal opinion.
	But just a clarification, because I like when you guys talk and you want to define a word.
	So you keep saying the word grooming.
	So from what I know what the word grooming is, it's taking someone and slowly acclimating them to get used to something that is immoral, gross, disgusting.
	Right.
	So where in it does an adult and an adult groom an adult into a control adult relationship?
	Unless they're grooming them into now you're going to be a murderer, now you're going to be a thief.
	There's no grooming happening because I am an adult.
	Both people are adults.
	Grooming is a lot of people.
	An 18-year-old adult is different than a 30-year-old in a lot of circumstances because your prefrontal cortex has not developed.
	Okay.
	But here's the question.
	So let's get into the prefrontal cortex because this is an argument often used by leftists.
	Would you agree with me that your brain development is highly dependent upon body nourishment?
	Yes.
	And do you agree that poor people have worse nourishment than rich people?
	Yes.
	So then I have to ask you, would you ever recommend that a rich person gets together with a poor person because their prefrontal cortex is not going to develop correctly?
	Depends on people.
	It depends on the circumstances.
	But wait, wait, it's all about the prefrontal cortex.
	So I got to ask you to develop a prefrontal cortex.
	Yes, but not correctly, right?
	Not correctly.
	So, just based on nourishment alone, by your argument, okay?
	There could be women who are 25, as long as they're just in a lower socioeconomic position, they should not be dating, or rich people should not be dating them, even if they're in the same age group.
	Because I don't know that rich person's background, do you have no idea what they're doing?
	We're just going to say, on average, there's rich people.
	Why would that not be icky?
	Wait, why would that not be icky, though, if this person had all the right nourishment so that their prefrontal cortex developed correctly?
	And then the person who was poorer probably didn't have as good a nourishment, so it didn't.
	They could never be at the same level even if they were 25, right?
	So, they shouldn't date.
	I mean, there is a lot of circumstances where that does happen, and that is a big thing where women do get set up with financial abuse.
	They do get stuck in relationships where they are financially dependent.
	So, who the fuck is allowed to date who in your world?
	Yeah, anyone can date anyone, but I can say that there's red flags and there's warnings, and women should protect themselves.
	They should protect themselves from a rich man who's taking care of them.
	I think women should have their own financial security set up when they're dating a man because you never know.
	You could be with a man for 20 years and then he divorces you.
	And if you don't have, you don't have, say, you don't have a prenup, you don't have anything set up, you haven't worked your family.
	No, no, no, the red flag would be to the rich man, right?
	To say don't date poor women because their brain isn't developed correctly because their prefrontal cortex was stunted because they didn't get the correct nourishment.
	Most rich men don't want to date poor women.
	No, actually, oh, contra, they don't care because they're looking not at the prefrontal cortex that they don't give a fuck about, they're looking at how hot they are.
	I would disagree and they don't care about that.
	I would disagree with that.
	Because the social circles that rich people are in are very different than the social circles some people are in.
	I do need to do an intermission because we have a backlog of chats.
	I will, I don't think you got an answer from her on the grooming definition, so I will.
	I've made a note to get to that.
	We have Giovanni C. Is it a good idea to get to go on the perpetual medium with millions of views and talk about other scumbags porking you who would want to marry you after that so our kids can get clowns, stupid, or shameless?
	Um, I mean, whoever I end up with, um, I wouldn't want them to be put off by mistakes I made when I was 17.
	And I've already clearly stated that I've learned from those mistakes and I'm trying to better myself.
	So, I think that I will find somebody who respects me.
	We have lol paladins here coming in just a moment.
	Women are willing to be promiscuous for certain types of men.
	Be that type of man, they'll morph to be what you want as a man.
	The same woman will be both a 30-0 and also make other types of men wait.
	Interesting one, lol paladins.
	Thank you.
	This is back in our discussion about waiting for sex.
	Lol Paladins also said this was my entire point, though.
	A woman neither has more or less virtue based on how quick she will sleep with you.
	It's the same woman that will sleep quick or slow, same virtue, different durations.
	All right, lol paladins.
	And then he has another one coming in.
	Thank you, Louis.
	Thank you, Lil Paladins.
	Appreciate it.
	I'll play your noise here while.
	Oh, actually, hold on.
	Is it coming?
	The variable is not how virtuous the woman is.
	The variable is the type of man that she is with.
	She will still give it up quick for some men and not give it up quick for others.
	She learned nothing.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	That's a sound.
	He gets a special sound.
	We have, again, lol paladins.
	Gross pot, meat, kettle.
	She is just upset because she knows she's full of baggage, that no high-quality man wants her.
	She gets what she deserves.
	She's only someone's side piece and never more.
	I think this is to you.
	Me?
	Yeah, I think.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, you don't know why you weren't even coming on that.
	I'm in a relationship, though.
	I think he's mentioning the side piece component of the whole non-monogamy.
	Oh, well, right now we're actually exclusive because I just said I wanted to take a break from dating.
	Well, I wanted him.
	I don't really want him talking to other women.
	He doesn't care if I talk to other women.
	So that's kind of our dynamic right now.
	Okay.
	All right.
	We have more chats.
	Maybe if you weren't so much damaged goods, you wouldn't get so upset that I'd prefer any other woman other than you.
	I don't know who that man is.
	You don't know Lol Paladins?
	I don't know who that is.
	He's a paladin.
	Actually, Lol Paladins.
	I don't know if you were here earlier on in the show.
	So she's a witch.
	We are, me and Andrew are paladins casting protection spells.
	Well, it didn't work because that earthquake hit.
	That was my ex.
	Oh, shit.
	No, it did work because your earthquake didn't take us out.
	Oh, shit.
	It should be a warlord 69 U-Woo says, What happened to your magic gypsy?
	Does it not work in this scenario?
	Does Leonardo DiCaprio give you the ick?
	Because he's with a really young woman.
	Oh.
	Or, Nick, you want to pull up that infographic for Leo?
	I think it's in the infographic.
	I think he has like a history of that.
	It is in the.
	Yeah, I think it's icky.
	I think it's icky.
	You think everything's icky.
	I think certain situations are icky, yes.
	Unless it comes to open relationships, that's fine.
	Everything else, fucking icky.
	Yeah, because I don't see how an open relationship is.
	Yeah, but you can find an open relationship.
	How is it not to be sleeping with multiple people?
	That seems pretty icky.
	Oh, the decision.
	Yeah, and I say stated my opinion.
	You guys agree or disagree with it?
	I'm not here to tell people what they should or shouldn't believe.
	We have a chat from Lol Paladins.
	By the way, the only advantage that younger women have is less baggage.
	If I met an older woman with less baggage, I'd love it.
	You are disgusting because of your baggage, not because of your age.
	Witch.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	And then one sec.
	Hold on.
	There's two more coming in.
	We have Giovanni.
	His account's going to be great.
	Giovanni Andrew is witch's man not a cuck if her man lets her bang other girls.
	I guess I'm a feminist because I don't allow my chick to date smash anyone regardless of gender.
	Cuck is egalitarian.
	Yeah, I don't think cocklery applies to females.
	So the female can cuck a man, but I don't think that men that wouldn't go with the distinction of the words.
	Is it different too when like when both parties are allowed to do that?
	No, I know that's still cocker.
	It's still cocky.
	So a man can be sleeping with other women.
	So I'm sorry, I got to redirect here.
	I got to redirect.
	So Leonardo DiCaprio refuses to date a woman.
	Hold on, let me read this.
	Media government and older women are grooming young women to hate age gap relationships due to the collapsing economy, prevent them from adopting conservative views.
	Plus, old women are bad for long-term relationships.
	That's from Final Way Feminism.
	Thank you for your message, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	We have Leonardo DiCaprio refuses to date a woman over 25.
	So this is his relationship history.
	Actually, recently, I think this is somewhat dated.
	He just finally dated a 26-year-old.
	Wow.
	Big day for Leo.
	Good job, Leo.
	50.
	He did it, boys.
	But as you see, he's not really, when it comes to his relation, has not dated over 25.
	Is this the question from the question was, does Leonardo DiCaprio give you the ick?
	A little bit.
	Okay, good to know.
	We have Randon.
	But they're 25 and her prefrontal cortex is all developed, though.
	Yeah, I know.
	I still think that like in general, you should date people.
	Isn't this witch lady advocating for harming other individuals willingly?
	That's wild.
	Question for the panel.
	How do we feel about this age gap rule for men?
	Date half your age plus seven.
	But you missed a checkmate.
	What do you mean?
	She said it was icky, and she says, but wait, the prefrontal cortex is developed at 26, and she still thinks it's icky.
	He's 40.
	I think it's considerably less icky.
	Oh, but still icky.
	Considerably less.
	I think that you should be dating people your own age.
	Why?
	Why does that matter?
	I don't even know why that would matter at all.
	I think women should only date men.
	How old are you?
	23.
	I think women should only date men because not the same age.
	We're pretty close.
	So women should only date men.
	Women seem to have a preference for men who are funny.
	Despite their lack of humor themselves, I think it's icky that women aren't funny, but they have this huge desire for dating funny men.
	From your purview, you're only allowed to essentially desire traits in a partner that you yourself possess.
	So you need to be look, it doesn't have to be like the same birthday.
	What do you mean?
	How is it not a trait?
	It's different than a personality trait.
	You changed your birth date.
	How is it not a trait?
	Done.
	Okay, that's okay.
	You decided to change your date to see it.
	And it's not a trait.
	Where's the new person?
	That was brutal.
	Boom.
	Roasted.
	Before I get into the, I guess, the grooming thing, really quick, so putting aside or even granting your arguments that it is icky, gross, creepy, predatory, whatever.
	Can you actually make a compelling argument in terms of the benefits to the man for why he should date, for example, a 35-year-old over a 25-year-old, assuming he's, say, 35 himself or 40?
	And I think a lot of people want to date people that are at the same level as them.
	And it's kind of a thing of like.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Women don't.
	I would say.
	Women don't.
	I do.
	I would.
	No.
	I do not want to date an 18-year-old and like.
	Whoa, whoa, hold on.
	The same level.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Hold on.
	The same level.
	Why am I doing a fucking time?
	Tumor Gremlin.
	You're just trying to do it.
	Okay, hold on, hold on.
	Okay, hold on.
	Tell us a...
	Tell us about the status of your boyfriend.
	What do you mean?
	You said he's a famous rapper.
	Who is he?
	No, no, no.
	Look, this is a little literally a checkmate.
	But I'm a little bit.
	You've just been checking.
	I can say that.
	I'm talking about status.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	You say people should date on their level.
	You're literally in a relationship with a guy who dwarfs your status.
	You have no idea.
	You're predatory for pursuing a man.
	You are predatory for pursuing a man more successful than you, more money, more clout, more followers.
	You said he's got millions of followers across social media.
	He dwarfs your social media status.
	Okay.
	Well, you fucking clout chased him, you predatory clout chaser.
	He slid in my DMs.
	Right, so?
	Wait a second.
	Wait, so what?
	Okay, if an 18-year-old slides into my DMs, I'm 35.
	No problem.
	She slides into my DMs.
	Less creepy than a 30-year-old that's going out of their way to try and slide into 18-year-olds, DVDs.
	But there's such a power dynamic in your relationship.
	What if he had slid in?
	Hey, on, I'm sorry.
	You wouldn't be dating him if he had slid into your DMs?
	What do you mean?
	Wait, you slid into your mind?
	I wouldn't slid into yours.
	I slid in mind, yeah.
	Well, that's really predatory.
	Now, this is predatory.
	Your boyfriend is predatory because there's this huge power imbalance because he has more status.
	He has a bigger following.
	He's a famous rapper.
	Rappers make a lot of money, right?
	And you don't have the same life experience.
	You're a witch.
	Literally.
	So, why did you, despite your views of like asymmetry in relationships being predatory or creepy or icky, why did you then choose to be in a relationship with him?
	You have no money.
	I have a lot of money too.
	I have a lot of things going for me as well.
	More than a rapper with 1.2 million followers or whatever?
	I want an extremely huge lawsuit.
	Extremely huge.
	Okay, cool.
	You're a huge lawsuit.
	You came into your room without very good investments rolling.
	We both are.
	We both are concerts.
	We both are content creators.
	He's got more status than you.
	There's asymmetry in your status.
	Sure.
	That's conversations we've had.
	And it was a red flag.
	And from the get-go, I didn't trust him from the get-go.
	I did not trust him from day one.
	He had to build that trust with me.
	I've never once said every single 30-year-old that goes after an 18-year-old is a creep.
	I'm saying it's a red flag.
	Him being a rapper?
	Yeah, kind of was a red flag when we first met.
	And here you are in a relationship.
	Yes, because we connected.
	Oh, and how about if a 19-year-old connects with a 30-year-old?
	Then that's fine, but that's something that the 19-year-old should look out for.
	No, I'm okay with that.
	You still think it's icky?
	I think it's icky to purposely target younger women as a 30-year-old man.
	I think that that's icky.
	That was what the comment was originally.
	I mean, I did it.
	That's what I replied to you.
	I still don't understand why that would be icky.
	Targets them for what?
	A relationship?
	Because they're beautiful.
	Like, what is the problem?
	It's weird because I think a lot of the time attracted to each other.
	A lot of the time, a 30-year-old who's going for an 18-year-old is because he can't get women his own age.
	Yeah, actually, wait, can I make this argument really quick?
	So, if you're 22, then that means your prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed, so then maybe you shouldn't be dating it.
	Hold on.
	I'm dating someone who's my age, so it's a very fine.
	I'm not dating a person.
	I'm not fully developed yet to make that decision.
	You should wait till you're 26 and revisit it.
	Hold on.
	So, you're you do.
	Okay.
	I just want to point this out.
	So, I would actually make the argument that a man who's 30, who's able to, say, regularly attract 18, 19, 20-year-old women, is probably really attractive to 30-year-old women.
	Because it's for you, for you as a guy at 30 to get attraction from an 18, 19, 20-year-old, bro, you got to be bringing something to the table.
	No, it's not these average 30.
	You think average 30-year-old dudes, they're bringing something to the table.
	And if they're attractive, if you're a 30-year-old guy and you're attractive to 18, 19, 20-year-olds, trust me, you're attractive to 30-year-olds, too.
	I would say that's a good idea.
	Bro, it's harder as a 30.
	Let me ask you a question: Is it easier as a 30-year-old man to pull like a baddie 19-year-old or to pull a baddie 30-year-old?
	Which is harder?
	I think it would be harder for them to pull a baddie 30-year-old.
	Because I think the 19-year-old's going to be considerably more impressed because he has considerably more life experience than him.
	He more than likely has considerably more money than her because he's been in a position where he can do that.
	She's going to be a 19-year-old is going to be way easier to impress than a 30-year-old who's been around the block.
	Yeah, a 30-year-old who's more mature and has a free frontal cortex.
	He's developed and can make those informative.
	I would say you have a lot more experience than me.
	Which one?
	Man's age aristocracy.
	Nah, that's okay.
	That's okay.
	I think I would say, as a person who's gone through those ages, that at 23, if somebody would have came to me who's 35, I would have said you, because you're old.
	But then at 30, I would have looked at that same person and been more attracted to them because I understand more of what they have to bring.
	Right.
	Jaivanick donated $200.
	Andrew, can you give your logical reasons against age gap relationships?
	You keep alluding to it.
	Last chat, sorry for spamming.
	Yeah, thank you, Giovanni.
	No.
	You can't give the enemy ammunition.
	No.
	Thank you, Giovanni.
	Appreciate the thing.
	Really quick, going back to the best.
	But they're really good and they're not the ick.
	I would like to hear them.
	I know.
	I'm sure you would.
	I don't say any of them.
	You got to give me a bunch of things.
	One day there's going to be a argument, but you don't think it's, but you don't think it's ick.
	So I'm like, one day there's going to be a feminist on that side of the table, and she's going to make compelling arguments.
	She's going to back me in a corner.
	And then I'm going to just obliterate her with why age gaps are wrong.
	That day is not today.
	Why they are wrong.
	Okay.
	Right, but you said that.
	Okay.
	All right.
	That day is not today.
	So, really quick for you, you asked her the definition of grooming.
	What's your definition of grooming?
	I think she worded it perfectly.
	I really, really liked how she worded it.
	Okay, so you agree with her definition?
	Yeah, I agree with the definition.
	Okay.
	And then I think, did we do this one?
	Oh, we didn't really get an answer, I think.
	How do you guys feel about date half your age plus seven as a benchmark for that's for the whole panel if anybody wants to weigh on?
	I'm doing like the mental gymnastics right now.
	Well, I do have to move off of the age gap.
	Oh, last thing.
	Man, I'm good.
	Okay, so last thing on the age gap thing.
	Or no, I already asked it.
	I think I was just, no, I already asked, like, what would the benefits be to the man for why you should date a 35-year-old over a 25-year-old?
	And you said more experience?
	Yeah, and also, oftentimes, you're probably going to have more money as a 30-year-old.
	Woman?
	Man or woman, they're going to have more money than an 18-year-old.
	So, I guess this brings us back a little bit to the conversation we're having with the flight attendant.
	Do you think men?
	Send in a champagne pop, and then I'll tell you the argument.
	Women care, and that's a good argument.
	That's why I think women get in positions where they will go for a 30-year-old.
	They will overlook a lot of restaurants.
	Right, but so because that man has an apartment, he has a good job.
	And a lot of 18-year-olds, they're adults, but they're not really.
	Wait, but earlier in the conversation, you said what are the benefits of dating an older man?
	You've just made the argument.
	I've never said there wasn't benefits of dating.
	I think you said something along the lines of why would they date them?
	What are the benefits?
	No, I don't understand why a 30-year-old would purposely target 18-year-olds.
	I don't understand the benefit from that.
	Because they don't want a single mom and they don't want a bunch of fucking trauma and they don't want a bunch of bullshit.
	Okay, there's plenty of 30-year-olds that are the pool is ever shrinking as to how much baggage-year-old brings to the table.
	Does this 30-year-old man also not have trauma?
	Significantly less, generally.
	So don't you feel like that's something that should be discussed?
	Why do women have significantly more trauma than men?
	Well, I think And saying women should defend themselves and women should prioritize their own people.
	I think that women over everything.
	Well, I also think that women tend to overplay what is actually considered traumatic to them versus what is not.
	I don't think that what's considered traumatic to me, that's my experience and that's my definition.
	And you're not able to do that.
	It's my truth.
	It's my truth.
	It is, because what I go through, my trauma, it's going to have an impact on me.
	Shall we challenge this?
	Shall we challenge this and see if this is actually true?
	A guy breaks into a convenience store.
	Okay.
	He breaks into a convenience store.
	While he's there, there's a woman there and there's a clerk.
	Okay.
	He goes over to the woman and he just damn near bashes her head in and then essays her right there.
	Okay.
	While the guy's on the ground, he doesn't see any of it.
	Then he also steals a candy bar.
	And she gets up and she says to the police, I can't believe what he just did.
	This is awful.
	It's horrible.
	And he goes, Yeah, and he stole my Snickers bar.
	That was traumatizing to me that he stole my fucking Snickers bar.
	Just as traumatizing as what happened to you.
	Yeah, you can't, you can't, you're going to tell me you cannot make the distinction as to which one of them actually has more trauma from this because it's internalized and it's subjective.
	And so it's possible in your worldview that the guy had the Snickers bar stolen is every bit as traumatized as the woman who was just half beaten and essayed.
	Yeah, I would say that there are people up where I think some people are able to handle a lot more than other people.
	And some people, what they go through considerably hurts them more than other people.
	Then, if that's the case, you're arguing.
	That's a woman versus me.
	I think that's a human.
	Then you're arguing against yourself.
	So then my argument to you would be that women are a really tiny cup and that men are a big cup.
	We have just as much trauma, but we can just really fucking deal with it better.
	I would highly disagree.
	Well, you could maybe make that disagreement if you hadn't just gotten done telling me that trauma is just a subjective metric.
	And if you steal my Snickers bar, it's just like you getting essayed if I feel like it is.
	I never said that.
	If.
	Wait, you didn't?
	I never said it was the same.
	Well, no, it could be.
	Wait, I'm sorry.
	I think it's a weird hypothetical.
	Is it logically about a woman getting brutalized?
	How's that a fantasy?
	I don't know.
	I just don't have thoughts of that crossing my mind.
	I think it's a weird thing.
	He's talking specifically.
	How would that be a fantasy?
	Somebody being traumatized by one app.
	That's a weird.
	I think the ticky.
	So, anyway, back to the hypothetical.
	You do theorize that I could experience as much trauma from that Snickers bar being stolen from me as this woman who got SA'd, correct?
	I don't know.
	I'm not a therapist.
	Okay.
	Oh, my gosh.
	I guess last thing.
	I feel like you did.
	I don't know if you're shifting the goalposts a little bit because initially you just said blanket statement: age gaps are gross, icky, predatory, whatever.
	But now that you feel like it's a bit more defensible position for you to say, well, it's not age gaps, but it's when 30 or older year old men specifically target 18-year-old women.
	You've kind of shifted your position to be, you feel like that's a bit more defensible.
	So, I mean, do you still take issue?
	For example, let's say a man has a dating app, and in the dating app, he sets his age range from, he's 30, from 18 to 35.
	Do you have objections there?
	He's not specifically targeting 18-year-olds, but he may very well encounter match with 18-year-olds.
	I think that's less weird.
	Less, but still weird.
	Yeah, I just think it's weird when they're not weird.
	But he's not specifically targeting them because he's set his age range.
	I think it's weird when they're not.
	Okay.
	But he's set his age range from 18 to 35.
	So he's not specifically targeting 18-year-olds.
	Maybe you want to be able to get it.
	I just think it's younger.
	I just don't.
	I personally cannot understand finding an 18-year-old attractive.
	I do not find any 18-year-olds attractive.
	I would say that's a good idea.
	I definitely don't like dating younger.
	I'm bisexual.
	I would say it's very different for me.
	And you still don't, right?
	You don't prefer to date a person.
	I would never know.
	I would want to date a woman myself.
	You would make that special that you're bisexual.
	How would that, how would that even relate to this?
	Because I would say that I have a different viewpoint.
	I think women, a lot of women don't want to date younger men, but that's like a very like that's like in the straight dynamic.
	As a bisexual, there's a lot of bisexual women that I'm sure want to date younger women.
	Me personally, as a bisexual woman, I wouldn't want to date a woman.
	Then I don't even understand why this would apply because you can't speak to anybody else's experience, only your own, right?
	I can, yeah, and I can state my opinion.
	And I can state and say that 18-year-olds should be on the lookout.
	And if a 30-year-old's interested in you, it's a red flag.
	And that doesn't mean that he's a bad guy.
	That doesn't mean you don't have to date him, but it's a red flag.
	And it's something you should keep an eye out.
	Is that only a red flag in straight 25?
	And we come back to the argument.
	Is that only a red flag in the straight world?
	Because you just said.
	No, I think it would be a red flag in any circumstances.
	It's still icky.
	Man-on-man win-on-woman.
	I still think it would be gross either way.
	And do you know which orientation has the widest age gap relationships?
	Oh, I'm sure it's probably lesbians.
	Gay men?
	Oh.
	Is that because you think they're predatory towards boys?
	I don't know.
	I am not a gay man.
	Now suddenly you can't talk about anybody else's experience.
	You have an opinion, and you can state your opinion until it comes to this.
	I just don't have an opinion on gay men.
	Oh.
	The only thing you don't have an opinion on.
	Two chats here.
	Two chats.
	Lol Paladins.
	Remember, experience is woman code for how many pee has she had in her mouth.
	Brian does have a point.
	It is harder to attract young women as an older man, way easier at 30 than 40.
	And then he also says, Thank you, Lol Paladins.
	appreciate it.
	Thank you, bro.
	He also says, Let me assure the witch, as a 40-year-old man, it's impossible to find a 30-year-old woman who doesn't have crazy amounts of baggage.
	If I could, I'd be supporting her instead of supporting Brian.
	Hey, Lol Paladins, he's like my internet boyfriend, pretty much.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	I'm like sugar.
	He's my sugar.
	What the?
	Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
	You're his sugar baby.
	I disavow.
	Okay.
	But, I mean, so, for example, you said like as you get older, you have more, get more experience, right?
	And then I'll move it on after this.
	I mean, we had the 31-year-old flight attendant there.
	I mean, you're younger than her, and I mean, credit to you.
	You've been able to have these disagreements and conversations without really faltering at all.
	I think you've actually made some good arguments.
	You've maintained your composure.
	She completely floundered, at one point, started crying.
	Andrew had the kid gloves on with her.
	Andrew had the kids.
	He was treating her with kid gloves.
	Yeah, it was sad.
	And she was only age quid.
	And she, not only that, she came in the most prepared of any of the women here, had notes in front of her.
	We've had that maybe three times.
	We've had over a thousand guests.
	Most people don't bring notes, whatever.
	She had notes in front of her.
	Guns blazing.
	Guns blazing.
	Big old feminist.
	Big old feminist.
	Shoes links.
	Couldn't even.
	She couldn't, despite her being a big old feminist, could not even come up with one way in which to validate.
	Men have rights that women don't.
	Couldn't even come up with one.
	So it's not clear to me that her additional life experience has better prepared her for coming on this podcast, whereas you're 23.
	So I don't think age is necessarily going to be an indicator.
	No.
	That's why I said it's not every single circumstance.
	It's a red flag.
	Right, but I would almost think, like, if a I know you're not inclined to date older men or whatever, but like if a 33-year-old were to date you, I would almost point out, given her conduct here, she did not seem particularly strong in her constitution.
	You could actually make the argument that would it be more icky to date her at 31 than to date you, for example, at 23, given her instability in her.
	I mean, that was unstable.
	I mean, I don't want to like, I will never speak negatively about another woman because I'm a girl's girl.
	But I'm not sure if I can do it.
	Fuck it, bullshit.
	Privately, I never say anything about any other experience.
	I only hex someone you pay me to.
	Go ahead, go ahead.
	And then I'll move it on.
	Come on.
	I don't really like talking negatively about women, but she doesn't seem like she should be in a relationship with anyone right now.
	Because it seems like she has a lot of work on herself that she needs to do.
	So I don't think she should be dating.
	Yeah, I actually do offer healing spells and self-love spells.
	She's a little robon for her.
	We still have to do that.
	I will.
	I'll do that for anyone who's on the podcast.
	Just DM me.
	So we still have quite a few notes to get through.
	I will try to get through them quickly.
	Going back to Riley, you said you agree with the show on most topics.
	We already kind of talked about that.
	On most topics, except for abortion.
	We already talked about that.
	Yeah, we already talked about that.
	And I was already kind of.
	Did you have your mind changed by Andrew?
	It's I think so.
	I think so.
	I have to think about it.
	All right.
	Think about it.
	Yeah, I think so.
	She did.
	She did the mindset.
	Oh, she did it.
	She did it mostly.
	Oh, okay.
	Right from Christy.
	Credit where credits do.
	I made the word buy and run out.
	She changed the mind.
	That was my one goal comment.
	Also, there was like a comment that kind of stumped me when they asked, like, oh, if I would kill my disabled child.
	No, that was me.
	Oh, no, but a comment said it as well.
	Yeah, you've also said it, yes.
	You said that you're, I think he's talking to you.
	Oh, if you can, just scoot into the table a little bit.
	You said your ex is insane.
	He also broke up with me the day.
	Oh, we.
	Yeah, we talked about that.
	Oh, also, one time he said to me, if Japan is a day ahead of us, why didn't they warn us about 9-11?
	Yes, he said that.
	What?
	Oh, he's working.
	Okay, I don't know if I necessarily call him insane, but like, he wasn't the brightest.
	He wasn't the sharpest tool in the shit.
	He wasn't the brightest.
	Were there like red flags?
	Did he ever seem like weird when we first met him?
	Or like.
	There was lots of red flags.
	The first of the red flags I've ever heard in my life.
	Well, okay, but this wasn't.
	Was this the first date?
	Because wasn't there like this was like six months in.
	Oh, okay.
	Did you say that's not how that works?
	Yeah, I did.
	Well, I laughed.
	I thought he was joking, but going to Payton.
	It's like a time portal.
	Oh, I also posted.
	That was the case.
	I'd be calling across the country all the time.
	No, I also posted a TikTok about that in the comments.
	People were like confused.
	I literally had to explain time zones to people in the comments.
	It's hard out there.
	And would you say that you had more of a female audience?
	I think it's like if you were on TikTok, you were.
	Well, no, because mostly, like, I usually just promote my music on TikTok.
	If it's TikTok, it's mostly a female audience, though.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, so I'd say I said so.
	All right, Payton, you said, I'm interested in being on the show to rep the normal, normal suburban girl who had a somewhat promiscuous past, nothing online, but got my stuff together before it's too late.
	Yes, I did say that.
	Oh, that was.
	Sorry, I was trying to prompt you to continue.
	Say more.
	Yeah.
	Like a little prompt.
	Expand.
	Well, I feel like online, the internet would have it portray that everybody hates each other, right?
	Everything is so extreme.
	Either you're all into the trad wife movement or you're extremely feminist liberal.
	It doesn't seem to me like there's a lot of normal, which I feel like this panel in comparison to some other ones I've watched is a little bit more even kill.
	But whenever I watch these shows, I always think to myself that our media, our culture doesn't show a lot of you can't have your KKD2, you can't have it all at all at one time, but you can live a normal life, I guess.
	It's just what I wanted to portray.
	Sure.
	You said that you had a somewhat promiscuous past.
	Yes.
	Are you able to get into the degree to which your past was promiscuous?
	Yeah, sure.
	So I met my husband when I was 18.
	Like I said in the very beginning, hours ago, it seems like now.
	How old was he?
	He was 22.
	Yeah.
	And we started dating.
	I just, I mean, I was, I hate to just stereotype 18-year-olds, but I was just kind of a crazy 18-year-old.
	Like the whole nine yards, like birth control, hormonal, just all of it.
	And I picked all the fights.
	I was very clingy, had no concept of God really at all at the time.
	He broke up with me, surprise, surprise, because it was very unstable.
	And he was also leaving the country, so why would he trust me while he's gone, right?
	So he left the country for a while, like off to the military, broke up with me over phone call.
	Wouldn't talk about getting, I guess it wasn't ghosted, but he basically called me up and was like, we're done.
	I'm not doing this with you anymore.
	No explanation, no closure, any of that, blocked me, the whole thing.
	And that was the period of time where I had a little bit of a promiscuous activity.
	So just things like casual dating, a couple of one-night stands.
	Ultimately, I feel that it brought me further away.
	I mean, looking back on it now, it's always 2020, but it ultimately brought me further away from my ultimate goal of wanting to have peace and a full family unit because I didn't have that growing up.
	And I just kind of realized that all of those one-night stands chipped away a little bit at my soul, if you will.
	I don't want to be dramatic, but I do believe that my soul was tied to those people.
	I had to do a lot of spiritual work, a lot of prayer to kind of move past that.
	Yeah, what can I say after that?
	So months pass.
	We finally get into contact over, you know, just subliminal social media.
	Funny enough, I posted a picture on social media from Halloween, and he saw it and slid in back into my DM.
	So that's actually how we reconnected.
	So I totally agree that women are, that is how women advertise to kind of drop the prophetic or proverbial handkerchief, if you will.
	You said also marriage should be a priority for women 20 to 30.
	Yes.
	Does the table agree with this table with the closest?
	I want to present this really quick.
	Won't linger, but should women prioritize marriage.
	Want to be married in your 30s, then you should prioritize dating to get married in your 20s.
	You have to be forward-thinking about this.
	I'll add that too.
	If marriage is something that you want, which you know, you could get to a point where it's too late, you look back and you want to take it back, and it might be hard to take it back.
	If marriage is something that you do want, then yeah, I mean, that should be your number one.
	I mean, outside of work, should be if you want to have children.
	That too, yeah.
	It's way easier for women to do when they're younger, way harder when they're older, which is why we're they one of the most developed countries in the entire world.
	Might be some other fucking Swedener bullshit you can point to, but one of the most developed in the world, and we have a really high mortality rate when it comes to women in childbirth, which is very, very strange.
	The reason for that is because they're having kids in their 30s.
	That's it.
	That's why it's been on the incline, that's why it's been going up because the age at women have children is going up.
	You said modern feminism is a lie.
	Yes, so I've been referring that to my friends.
	I have a lot of friends that are starting to get married and wake up, and they're realizing, wait, I'm married now, and you know, he's this great guy and everything, but I'm still working, and now I have to still do all of the wifely duties.
	So, I call that the lie, which is feminism.
	You've been sold.
	Oh, you guys are going to get in this relationship, it's all going to be equal, you're all equal, everything is interchangeable, and then you get married, and you at least I realize, oh, it's actually not.
	He's still, I'm so sorry, dear.
	He's still gonna leave stuff in the dishes.
	Like, there's just stuff that I would attribute to mostly being male behavior that I kind of come in and compliment him in that way.
	And I feel like a lot of my friends, specifically the ones that are working, still in the workforce, feel very overwhelmed, I guess, by having to be it all.
	You got to be the girl boss, you have to be the wife, you have to be the mother, you have to do it all at one time.
	So, you're more like against like 50-50 relationships in general?
	Am I against them?
	Yeah, is that more of like that?
	Sounds like more like what you're speaking on.
	I don't know if I'm against them so much as I just think it just is kind of how the dynamics work.
	And I think feminism sells.
	You can just work, you can work your tail off and you can have it all, and you're going to be this girl boss, and you're also going to be able to come home and be you know, Suzuki wife with perfect hair.
	And the at least that's what I felt.
	I was kind of sold.
	Okay, I agree with you on that point.
	You said women feel like they're drowning due to full-time work and caregiving.
	But moving on from that, you said I agree with most of what Brian says, though he's harsh on makeup.
	Also, curious about his Myers-Briggs.
	Yes, oh my gosh, I would love to know your Myers-Briggs.
	Honestly, I mean, so here's the interesting thing: I took it I took it when I was 18 and I got typed as ENFP.
	There is no way I'm an ENFP.
	I haven't taken it since.
	I'm probably IS, I think I'm like IST P or J would make sense.
	I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	Anything.
	You said he's harsh on makeup.
	So what specifically?
	Okay, I do get to.
	We'll pull that up in a sec.
	Go ahead.
	I know what you're about to pull up, and I know that point that it can be incredibly deceptive.
	However, if women are supposed to, you know, get guys based on our beauty, should we not do maybe some things here and there to enhance our beauty without being maybe fully on deceptive?
	You know, is there a way to do makeup, I guess, that's not deceptive?
	I mean, I don't think it's always deceptive.
	But if it wasn't changing your appearance, women wouldn't wear it.
	Like if it wasn't actually doing something to alter how you look in some way that you perceive as improving how you look, what would be like imagine if you could just put on makeup, but your face looked exactly the same.
	Would women do it?
	No.
	No.
	I don't think they would.
	You're right.
	But isn't that also like?
	Like someone who's wearing pants that are very unflattering to their body, they're going to look more attractive if they just wear pants that are flattering to their body.
	Makeup naturally accentuates what's already there and it brings out those beautiful features.
	But there is a bit of an asymmetry there in that men typically don't wear makeup and if they did, while there are some women who I guess might be okay with it, I'm in love with her.
	I would say most women would be severely like red flag turned off.
	This is not a masculine man.
	This is a feminine man.
	Why is he wearing makeup?
	Why is he insecure?
	So there's an asymmetry there in terms of the means by which we can elevate our physical appearance.
	I think that is very, very different considering if you're asking a conservative woman what she's looking for in a relationship and what may be more like a matter of honestly I don't even think liberal women want to date men with makeup.
	A lot do.
	I would disagree with that personally.
	Even liberal women seem to still want some of the more traditional aspects of masculinity.
	Yeah, all they ever complain about on their TikToks is how they can't find masculine men because all these soy boys.
	Well, I want a guy to chivalry and I want a guy to pay for dates, but I'm a fucking- I don't think a man putting on eyeliner makes him less of a man.
	I don't think that I don't understand how putting on eyeliner makes you less or more of a man.
	I don't think that it has an impact on you like that.
	Especially because considering back in the day, men used to wear heels.
	Men used to wear dresses.
	Well, they didn't wear heels, but they wore lifts.
	That's true.
	Heels were, yeah, heels were invented for men.
	Yeah, for lifts.
	Society and makeup was primarily used.
	But I want to be careful about loaded language, right?
	Because, no, they didn't have heels.
	Heels is an invention, a recent invention to accentuate women's legs.
	Okay, that's what a heel is, and the shoe shape and contour is designed for that.
	No, men weren't wearing heels.
	They were wearing lifted shoes.
	The reason progressives call them heels is because they want it to seem like it was gender neutral.
	It wasn't gender neutral.
	I would say that's like pretty equivalent to women wearing platforms, though.
	Platforms, I would consider like platforms to be more effeminate.
	Same with dresses, like in skirts.
	We've seen all throughout history, men have worn skirts, men have worn dresses.
	So here's the thing.
	When you have a technology for, and I would consider dress even technology, forms of technology.
	I can understand why a kilt or something like this, depending on the type of environment that you're in, the type of culture that you're in, you could say these are more masculine or more feminine.
	That's fine to say.
	But inside of the cultural norms that you find yourself in right this second, that is not the case.
	And so when we associate masculinity and femininity to things, well, you could say things like culture have social constructs in them for those things that may be true, but it does seem like men do gravitate towards things which suit masculine outside of just the social construction aspects of this.
	So yeah, I can just kind of grant, yeah, sure.
	There's always been men who've worn makeup.
	In fact, I liked watching glam bands.
	I thought they sounded awesome.
	Like watching rock stars.
	They're wearing makeup all the time.
	News anchors are wearing makeup all the time.
	That's true.
	But it doesn't seem like there's a huge preference from women to have men around who are wearing makeup because it's not perceived as being masculine.
	Yeah, I would also say there's not like a huge preference for traditional men.
	I would say they probably wouldn't go for women who dress like me either.
	I think the way you present yourself is going to attract people who, you know, totally agree.
	You know, the way I dress.
	Yeah, you're sending out a bad signal.
	Yeah.
	I'm not going, I'm not trying to attract men like you, and I don't mean that in any disrespect.
	I'm trying to attract men like my partner because, you know, he's emo.
	He loves wearing eyeliner.
	He's what emo rappers.
	Okay, he used to be emo.
	He's more like he started with emo rap and now he's more like a mainstream.
	Okay, but in any case, what I'm saying.
	I asked a question.
	What I'm saying is, is like, let me give you, let me give you an example of something that we would agree on would not be a social construction in a beauty standard between men and women.
	I don't think you can point to a culture where men wanted their women to have beards.
	No.
	No.
	But definitely, in almost all cultures, it was considered masculine to have a beard.
	Yeah, I also think makeup's kind of different, though, because a beard is if a woman is growing a beard, it's not a matter of time.
	All I'm saying is that there can be kind of what you would consider these gendered social constructions which map on that are socially constructed, but there's also ones that aren't.
	Well, I would assume that most men would find a woman with a beard unattractive because it shows that she has a severe hormonal imbalance.
	And if we just go back to evolution, men and women are going to go for a healthy mate.
	No one is going to go for a sickly looking mate.
	I'm willing.
	I'm willing to even agree.
	I just don't think it's really all that relevant.
	So when you're talking about makeup in the perception of society, right?
	Femboys are what is associated with makeup, not masculinity in any way, shape, or form.
	And it's because, so I would argue that you could perhaps make makeup even masculine from a socially constructed standpoint if it wasn't for all the feminine men who wore it instead of the masculine men who wore it.
	But he's like very, very masculine.
	I'm not saying your particular instance that you don't have the most masculine guy liner wearing guy on earth.
	I'm saying that most of the dudes who are out there wearing guy liner are femboys.
	Sure, but there's also a lot of grudge makeup.
	There's also, there's a lot of different like subcategories when you come to men wearing makeup.
	I just don't think like we talk about normie people though.
	Like, yeah, okay, goth people are going to want to date other goth people.
	It's not really like, so it doesn't really do anything to rebut the general statement that generally speaking it's deceptive.
	Like, well, that women would not find men who wear makeup attractive.
	Or they might, even if the man, even if the man is attractive, absent makeup, if he were to wear it, she would perhaps question, this is a bit strange.
	I got something I got to ask, though.
	Oh, this is going to be brutal.
	I wonder if I should even ask it to Brian, but I have to.
	Brian, do you ever wear makeup on camera?
	Huh?
	Do you ever wear makeup on camera?
	What do you mean?
	Do you ever wear makeup on camera?
	Like powder your face or anything like that ever?
	You've never done it?
	A lot of actors do.
	Never?
	Never.
	Not translucent, nothing.
	You think that it's not masculine to do?
	What do you mean?
	Like if people do, before they get on camera, actors, anchors, things like that, if they put on makeup?
	What do you mean?
	Do you think that it's not masculine for men who put on makeup in those roles?
	Where are you going?
	I'm just asking if you think if it's masculine or not.
	I'm not sure.
	I don't know what this has to do with anything.
	Well, is it or isn't it?
	Why are you asking?
	I don't know.
	I feel like I'm walking to a trap or something, bro.
	I feel like walking through a fucking track.
	Stage makeup and everyday wearing makeup.
	Totally different.
	Because you're going to have your actors in your play and your rocks are not going to be a bit more.
	But if the objection is deception.
	That's a character, right?
	Yeah, but it's still a deception, right?
	Like you don't want your news anchors to look ugly, right?
	Nobody wants to watch it.
	Soak up the oil.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	I've never wear the makeup.
	Like, I've never cared about the makeup thing.
	It's never been a thing for me.
	But I know that there's men who are way into this idea of no makeup on women.
	Okay, so anyways, moving back to the makeup thing from you, harsh on makeup.
	So you were saying that, well, why, what was your thing?
	Me?
	Oh, if women, if we are attracting men based on our appearance, shouldn't we do what we can to enhance that in Pirates?
	And maybe not deceptively.
	Yeah, so I think you said something along the lines of, okay, so if men care so much about makeup, then, or sorry, if men care so much about physical appearance, what is wrong with us trying to improve by wearing makeup?
	Right, especially if it's not, you know, a super permanent augmentation.
	If you get to know this female and you are intending to marry her, you will inevitably see her without makeup.
	So, I mean, couldn't you just make the argument, like, okay, well, women really care about a man's wealth or status.
	So, well, it's okay for a man to lie about his job or occupation because women really care about this in an effort to get women more attracted or attracted, period, to them.
	There's justified reason for a man who works at McDonald's to just say, well, I'm a lawyer.
	Logically, that makes sense.
	Isn't that very different?
	Because if you see a woman with eyeliner, do you just assume that she always has black lines on her eyes?
	You wouldn't assume that, but if you're lying about your job, why would I assume that you're lying about your job?
	The reason that this is gendered with makeup, what I was getting into, the reason that it actually is, is because women wear makeup to make themselves look younger.
	That's why they wear it.
	And because the reason that they want to make themselves look younger usually is because that's a status for attraction, is that you look younger.
	That's what makes you more attractive.
	Even women seem to think so with other women when they judge each other's makeup, right?
	You look so beautiful.
	You look so vibrant.
	You're glowing.
	Yeah, this is all signs of youth, right?
	And I have never seen a woman, in other words, do her makeup to make herself look older ever.
	They always do their makeup to make themselves look younger.
	And that's why it's actually gendered is because we, men, care, again, about youth and beauty of women.
	They don't really give a shit about that with us.
	So when you're talking about the deception, the deception of makeup, to verbalize why I think Brian and many men like him object to it is because they feel like women are deceiving people about what they actually look like, what their real age is, what their real youthful appearance is.
	So they feel like they're getting horn swoggled.
	I just think it's very obvious when a woman has a high amount of makeup.
	And I think you obviously know she's not going to look like that when she takes her own.
	Really?
	No.
	Let me, but you should see this cool video that we can show you right now because, no, I've seen women wipe a whole different face off.
	Yeah.
	Nick, do you want to?
	I can tell when a woman's wearing a lot of makeup.
	What about this?
	Makeup is not a line.
	It just accentuates her natural features.
	Doesn't even look like the same person.
	Looks like a dude.
	But also, she's posing very, very differently.
	Oh, come on.
	I do think that's a factor, but it's like, I mean, she does look a lot hotter in the right.
	I'm not going to display it.
	What do you mean, different?
	It's like you expect people to be in the exact same thing.
	No, because it looks like, in that one, she posed.
	There's also lighting that's a factor in that one.
	And this one, it looks like it was like a screenshot taken oddity.
	Her eye, her eyebrows, her lashes, everything is different.
	It's the same angle.
	Her face is tilted the same way.
	Like I said, I said on the right, she looks more attractive.
	I'm not going to dispute that.
	Which one looks older?
	I think they look the same age to me.
	Okay.
	If you're asking me personally, I think they look the same age.
	Do you like, do you usually associate baldness with youth?
	Baldness?
	No.
	No?
	No.
	Usually associate that with age?
	Yeah.
	Same thing.
	What about lines under the eyes?
	You usually associate that with youth or age.
	Yeah.
	You associate lines under the eyes, sagging eyes, wrinkles.
	You associate those things with age.
	Overall, yes.
	Okay, so then why don't you take a look at that and tell me why she wasn't putting bags under her eyes, why she wasn't adding wrinkles.
	No, I don't think.
	It's because she was trying to make herself look younger.
	Well, I think she just made herself look prettier.
	I wouldn't necessarily.
	I don't know.
	I don't know because when I put on makeup, when I put on makeup, I don't know.
	That's how they make it.
	I guess I just don't do that with makeup.
	I don't put on, I don't do super big wings to make myself look younger.
	I just do it to make you feel like you're still pretty.
	You're still pretty young.
	But you can understand that women in their 40s, there's tons and tons of wrinkle remover cream.
	Have you ever seen wrinkle addition cream?
	Because I've never seen it.
	Never seen that shit ever.
	Because I don't, I don't, I mean, maybe it exists in the abstract for some movie or something, but I don't think you can go to a makeup counter and say, can you give me the add wrinkle cream?
	I'd love to look older, please.
	Yeah, no women ever.
	I'm ready.
	And I said, no woman ever.
	It is ridiculous.
	Like the things that I do.
	I mean, you can ask my husband, he's like, why are you putting that shit on your face?
	Moving things on here.
	Wrinkles.
	Right.
	And then the last thing from you, Peyton, you said dressing to attract the right man, avoid fillers.
	Are you talking about face fillers?
	Yes.
	I agree with that.
	Agreed.
	Okay.
	Agreed.
	And then the dressing to attract the right person.
	We already touched on that earlier.
	You dress what you want to attract.
	Sure.
	Vanessa, you said you went on the first date with a guy who ended up just crying in your arms most of the time.
	Yes.
	Did you consider that masculine or feminine?
	Feminine.
	I'm sorry.
	Into the mic.
	I felt like a man in the moment.
	And this is why.
	When I was the one driving.
	Probably not a great feeling, probably.
	No.
	No, probably not.
	You said he begged you to go back to his hotel room together to fuck.
	Yes.
	And ended up just.
	What?
	I don't know.
	It's just funny.
	She.
	That shit was funny.
	She.
	Oh, it is funny.
	I just keep kidding.
	Is that what happened?
	And you ended up, he ended up just continuing to cry once we got back to the room just to be with me forever that we would be the perfect, and he was saying you guys would be the perfect couple.
	Yeah, and what made it worse is he was my boss in the porn industry.
	Oh no, this was politics.
	Oh my, why was he crying?
	Just because he was, he's just like in love with me.
	I guess I was like I don't know what I did to you.
	I'm so mean to you.
	I made that one.
	He got a haircut once and I was like yeah, it looks fine.
	He's like, no, you think I'm ugly, so I'm addicted to that.
	Interesting, right?
	Okay, you said picturing a guy laying in your lap crying the whole time in politics.
	Yeah, okay.
	Was he a Democrat?
	Were you guys running politics for Democrats?
	No, it wasn't Democrats.
	No.
	He was a Democrat.
	No, Republican.
	Huh?
	Do you assume he's a Democrat because he cried?
	Yeah.
	No, she said it was a Republican.
	What's that?
	He was a Republican.
	Do you guys have takes on men who cry?
	Like, do you think men shouldn't cry?
	Yeah, I don't think men should cry.
	Democrats be the only person who's not going to be able to do that.
	Everyone should have an appropriate time for men to cry, and that's when a family member dies.
	Maybe a dog.
	I think that's really sad.
	Agreed.
	No, not even at a birth of a child, I wouldn't say.
	Hold on, though.
	You don't think a birth of a child makes sense.
	I think you should maintain stoicism even at the birth of a child.
	It's crazy.
	So I can't.
	Okay, hold on.
	Agreed.
	She's already crying enough for the both of you, you know?
	I agree.
	I agree.
	Okay.
	You said, why is it okay for men to sleep with as many people they want, but suddenly it's terrible if a woman does the same?
	Yeah.
	It's the same thing at the end of the day.
	She's got a point.
	What do you mean?
	Like, if you had sex with 100 people and I had sex with 100 people, it's different.
	Is it though?
	It's the same thing.
	You're both ran through and use the same rate.
	Well, I guess it depends on how you're viewing it.
	So in terms of like what the objection is to being raised.
	For example, it is different, and here's one way.
	One way it's different is it's actually very easy for women to sleep with men.
	So I think, but I'm not sure if this is the objection that you're raising.
	For example, why is it like a man is big upped if he's able to sleep with a lot of women, but a woman is deemed a slut, for example?
	I'm not sure if that's your objection, but I think my statement of it's easy for women to sleep with a man, it's relative, comparatively harder for men to sleep with women.
	I think that would defeat the objection there, but I'm not sure if that's the objection you're raising.
	Kinda, yeah.
	But it's also different for me because my line of work.
	Yeah, just if you can, a little closer to the mic.
	Oh, it's different for me because like my line of work, like I'll work with like 10 different people a week, and then like they're like, oh, like if I sleep with like someone else, like that's like making up for you doing all that all week.
	I'm like, no, it's not the same thing.
	Oh, well, that's a different conversation.
	So now you're talking about...
	It's just a matter of...
	Well, are you talking about, so you're dating civilian men, and they have an issue with you fucking men on camera, but then if they say, well, I should be able to fuck other civilian women because you're fucking men on camera, you're saying, no, that...
	that's different.
	Yeah.
	Just so I want to make sure I understand.
	What's different?
	Because they're choosing, but like, I'm talking about also body counts.
	Like, how.
	You're choosing.
	What do you mean?
	Like, do you want to choose who you want to sleep with?
	And I'm not really.
	I'm just working.
	So choosing who you sleep with.
	Yeah.
	But you're choosing porn.
	Like, sleeping with them and you're not.
	Wait, that's the weirdest argument that I've ever heard.
	So to get this right, he's choosing, but you're not choosing?
	How are you not choosing here?
	The only difference is you're getting paid.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, but hang on, let her answer.
	Hang on.
	How are you not choosing, though?
	Like, I'm not choosing who I'm working with.
	I don't know.
	But you are choosing the kind of work you're doing, which there's going to be a necessary entailment of the work you're doing.
	You cannot do corn if you do not do corn, right?
	So wouldn't an entailment of doing corn mean that you're going to be sleeping with people?
	So I mean, how are you not choosing that?
	I guess it's just choosing on who you sleep with really like at the end of the day.
	So then by this logic, if your man came to you and said to you, listen, I just want to let you know, I am going to be sleeping with other women, but my best friend's going to pick them for me.
	I have no choice.
	Would that make sense to you?
	Would you say sure?
	Sure, why not, I guess.
	I don't know.
	It's the same thing at the end of the day.
	So as long as he just, so as long as he's not picking him, but his best friend is, no objection.
	I guess.
	I don't know.
	But if he's picking him, then you object?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	Yeah, why is it when a woman sleeps with a bunch of men, she's called a slut.
	But when a guy does the same thing, he's called gay.
	It's fucked up, man.
	Fucking double standards, bro.
	Bullshit.
	I still like that old key analogy, the master key analogy.
	That one's my favorite.
	She doesn't like that one.
	No.
	She doesn't like it.
	Well, I just think it's equivalent to a pencil.
	I wouldn't want to use a pencil that's been used over and over and over until it's dull and unusable.
	I think that's the same thing as like the key argument.
	Because the key argument is like one.
	Okay, explain the key argument to me.
	I'm not able to verbalize it.
	So I'll explain the key argument.
	Explain the key argument.
	Yeah, the key.
	Well, it's not an argument, right?
	Well, for one.
	It's just like a funny thing to say.
	But here's the key argument.
	It works like this.
	It says, a lock which can be opened with mini keys is a shitty lock.
	But a key which can open any lock is a master key.
	You genuinely believe that?
	No.
	Oh, okay.
	But I still think it's fucking hilarious.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I just think it's fucking hilarious.
	I just think it's funny.
	I mean, I think, I don't think this was really her argument.
	I think it's perhaps this double standard exists somewhat because, again, it's easy.
	It's easy to get laid as a woman.
	Not so easy as a man.
	So you're saying that men are easy when you say that statement.
	You're saying that men are very, very easy.
	Yeah, they are.
	That's crazy.
	I just wanted to clarify that.
	Do you disagree?
	You don't think they're easy?
	Yeah, I would agree with your statement there.
	I just didn't know if that was easy.
	So why is that a crazy statement?
	I just, most men would disagree with that take.
	Most men would agree.
	Most men would not say that they're easy.
	Most men would actually argue that women are easy.
	Hold on, you're individualizing this.
	So I think most men would be like, is it easy for a woman who wants to fuck a guy for the woman to fuck the guy?
	Yeah, most men would say yes.
	Yeah, so men are easy.
	But you're saying most men would not say that men are easy.
	Hang on, you're talking past each other.
	What's meant by easy?
	Like, just ease of sleeping with ex?
	Yeah, I mean, it sounds like men.
	So if that's the case, I can guarantee you if that's what the standard is, there's no man you're ever going to meet in your life who you ask this question.
	Is it easier for a woman to sleep with a man than a man or woman who will ever answer anything other than yes?
	It's always easier for the woman.
	I agree.
	I think that's because men are easy.
	every man on planet Earth is going to agree with us.
	But you think men...
	But you said you don't think men would say that.
	That statement, if you agree by that, you're literally saying that men are easy.
	So men are obliged to counter the message.
	It just seems based off that statement, men give it up easy.
	That's what it seems like you were saying.
	Yes, I do.
	So I don't understand how.
	I don't agree.
	I don't, I'm confused.
	Do you agree?
	Yeah, I just wanted to clarify it.
	Because I think most men would disagree with that.
	Okay, so let's just make sure that we're sure that you just said most men would disagree with this.
	Yeah, I would say like most men that I've had this conversation with.
	So then, so then I just want to make sure that you think that if you asked a random man, is it easier for a woman to sleep with a man or a man to sleep with a woman, that they would say that it's harder?
	No, I think if I made the statement and I said men are really easy and men give it up really easily.
	Oh, yeah, but that's really kind of weird.
	So what you're doing though, right, that's very sneaky and underhanded to load the terms, which is why I unpacked your term.
	Because once your term is unpacked, right, this is really typical sloganeering by liberal progressives too, right?
	Ah, we want the right to choose.
	No, you want the right to kill kids.
	We want the right to have bodily autonomy.
	Nope, you want the right to kill kids.
	We want the right to, nope, you want the right to, so it's all sloganeering.
	When you say easy, that's a slogan.
	When it's unpacked, you go, well, no, most men would agree that it's easier for women to sleep with men than men women.
	So it's like, so you're, so what you're doing is it's a very sneaky way for you to create a slogan.
	When you say easy, you're using loaded language.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Sure.
	Very loaded language.
	Sure.
	So going back to Vanessa, this one should be pretty interesting.
	Wait, I'll read this.
	She just wanted to get a dig in at men because she thought calling men easy was an insult.
	Her misander is obvious.
	Yeah, it was.
	It was just a joke.
	Kind of like the key analogy.
	I would argue that that.
	I would argue.
	Oh, sorry.
	I was just making kind of like a counter to the key joke.
	I'm also making a joke.
	I obviously don't.
	I don't believe that men are easy.
	Beat up like four minutes.
	You don't believe men are easy?
	I was kind of making a joke.
	Yeah.
	I don't know if.
	So I'm trying to figure this out.
	Do you think men are easy or not?
	I don't think all men are.
	Oh my God.
	I don't think the right man is.
	Andrew's going to go take.
	Wait, Andrew, you might want to stay for this next part.
	All right.
	You might want to stay for this.
	Okay.
	That's okay.
	We can move on.
	I just.
	Oh, we're moving on.
	We're moving on.
	As a man, I've been able to tell the woman that I've had sex with 400 plus women and women still want me for relationships.
	Lol Paladins, you got the whole behind the scenes cast laughing there.
	If a woman said the same thing, she'd be rejected regularly.
	We aren't the same.
	We aren't the same.
	I mean, I don't get rejected, but.
	Wait, ask you.
	Yo, Lol Paladins, Nick wants me to ask you if you've ever Helen Kellered anybody.
	Lol Paladins, let us know.
	So, Vanessa, you said women should be allowed to have an abortion at any stage of pregnancy they like.
	Yes.
	So, like an hour before they would otherwise give birth?
	Yeah, because like what can happen after, like, she might mistreat it or something, you know, or kill it herself.
	What about a whoa, okay, what about a minute before she would otherwise give birth?
	Yeah.
	What about as the baby is like midway through the vagina, the head is crowning, she can kill it?
	I don't know.
	What's the meaning?
	That's pretty late, but if she wanted to make that decision, most of the time I wouldn't do that.
	I've got it in crowning.
	Like, what draws that line?
	Wait, and so before we get into it, a couple clarifying questions.
	Her, so her life's not in danger.
	There was an essay, there was an incest.
	Let's just say she's on the birthing table, or I don't know what it's called.
	She's in the hospital, 30 minutes away from otherwise giving birth, and she just, it came to her.
	I just don't really feel like being a mom.
	I mean, it's her choice.
	Is that enough?
	Is that enough pretext and justification for then essentially having an abortion right then and there in the hospital?
	By ripping it to pieces.
	Let's get her answered.
	It's her choice, but she should just give it up for a doctor.
	Into the mic.
	It's her choice.
	No, but you hold on.
	But your claim, your original claim was: women should be allowed to have an abortion at any stage of pregnancy they like.
	I mean, about to give her.
	Oh, it was kind of crazy, but.
	Well, okay, fine.
	A day before.
	She's not in the hospital yet.
	She's not in the hospital yet.
	Okay, we'll pull it back up later, guys.
	Okay, we'll pull it back up later.
	Okay.
	So.
	She's not in the hospital yet, a day before she would otherwise give birth.
	That's her choice.
	I don't know.
	I wouldn't do it personally.
	But if she wants that decision, sure.
	How come you wouldn't do it personally?
	It's just not something I would do.
	Why?
	It's really late.
	Would you consider that?
	Would you consider that to be a human being at that point?
	Basically, it is, yeah.
	So then how is she not murdering at that point?
	I don't know.
	It's not really murder.
	Have you thought this?
	It's not really murder.
	Is that what you're saying?
	They come out murder.
	Like, they come out crying and breathing.
	Okay, Andrew's always.
	He needs a smoke after that one.
	Okay.
	I mean, can you give us a little more detail here on, I guess, why you think that?
	I don't know.
	I mean, I wouldn't do it.
	That's insane.
	But I didn't expect that kind of question to come up like last minute.
	Giving an abortion.
	That's crazy.
	You wrote it in your pre-show notes.
	Oh.
	I'm getting through the pre-show notes.
	Yes, it's coming up right now.
	Yeah, I guess I wrote that.
	I'm just a whore.
	What do I know?
	You're just a what?
	A whore, I guess.
	Oh, well.
	Yeah.
	Let's discuss it.
	I can't believe you even said that on YouTube.
	You see, you just said on YouTube.
	I'm sorry to the world.
	Please don't listen to this.
	I'm sorry for her.
	I'll pray for her.
	Are you okay, bro?
	Look, okay, so you wrote it.
	Do you want to actually present an argument?
	Apparently not.
	I mean, you don't have any...
	You don't have anything?
	I ain't got nothing.
	What's going on up there?
	Is there?
	It don't work.
	Don't work, okay.
	I don't even know how to like.
	She just doesn't have an argument, I guess.
	Okay.
	So do you just want to concede and walk back?
	So you think women should not have abortions then?
	Period.
	No, they should have abortions.
	Just not like the third trimester.
	I don't know how to do it.
	Why?
	But why should they have abortions?
	Can you just speak into the mic?
	You got this.
	I believe in you.
	You can do it.
	You said what?
	Just pretend.
	I asked why women should be allowed to have abortions.
	Oh, God.
	Because they can?
	I don't know.
	I'm moving on.
	I can't answer it.
	I lose.
	Just.
	I'm going to need a cigarette.
	But it's not a matter of you losing or winning a conversation, right?
	Like, it's a really big deal to have an opinion on abortion pro-life, however.
	So you have an opinion.
	Women just could have an abortion whenever they want, and that's about it.
	You got to talk into the microphone.
	Pretend it's a penis, okay?
	You're right.
	Thank you.
	My question for you, and I don't want to categorize you as this.
	Like, I'm talking about the argument, not you.
	It feels when people make this argument, in my opinion, it's incredibly misogynistic to think that women can't figure out that they're pregnant until the third trimester or that they're not smart enough to know what to do about what's going on, or take it even a step back that they're not smart enough to understand preventative birth control in 2024.
	So I just don't get this idea that it's women empowerment to tell women you're so stupid, you might need up until the moment of birth to abort your child.
	Do you see what I'm saying?
	Yeah, I feel like most women do know like the first month or two, like, where's my period?
	Or like, there's something wrong with me.
	Like, realize in the first few months.
	So you don't have my goal here isn't to get you to go, oh my gosh, I'm pro-life after this.
	But the majority of Americans have agreed on somewhere between a six to 15-week abortion ban.
	That feels right, right?
	Like that feels right.
	So maybe beyond that's like kind of crazy.
	Right.
	Okay, cool.
	Yeah.
	We've made a massive improvement from how you walked in here.
	I'm cool with that.
	Right, but so your original claim.
	But who's asking me, like, like the crowning and one day before?
	Like.
	Okay, but so your original claim was women should be allowed to have an abortion at any stage of the pregnancy.
	I'll even walk it back because I'm using a.
	I mean, other women can, like, I am personally just not.
	Okay, but I'm so using a bit more of an extreme example.
	Let's just say a week before she would otherwise give birth.
	Still crazy, but if she wants to, she can.
	So I walked back from this crowd.
	I wouldn't do it.
	Wait, wait, I want to make sure that I got this right.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So she's having an at-home birth.
	Okay.
	And her husband's there to deliver.
	Okay.
	Baby's head comes out.
	She says, I don't want any more.
	He grabs a kuju and bashes the fucking head.
	Bam, bam, bam.
	I want to hear from you that that's her choice.
	I mean, that's murder, but.
	Oh, that's murder.
	Okay.
	What do you think happens when they have abortions?
	I do.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	I'm sorry.
	Nick, we need to do the dating apps, and then we can come back to this because, Nick, you need to leave in a few, right?
	Yeah.
	Unless you can extend?
	No, I don't.
	Okay.
	I forgot to send my thing.
	I forgot to DM my dating apps.
	I thought you did.
	I don't think I did, unless I'm losing it.
	I sent mine in.
	I know I took a screenshot of them, but I don't think I sent them, actually.
	There's a curry guy's out there.
	Is he up?
	No, he probably went to get one.
	What do you mean?
	I'm just going to say you said.
	Okay, I'll do some chats.
	Yeah, her joke wasn't funny.
	She was trying to imply that men's penis is a pencil that gets worn down the more it is used.
	It's not a good analogy, stupid.
	Okay.
	I don't think that's a good analogy is good either.
	That's why I used it.
	Because I think they're both kind of poor analogies.
	They're both jokes, though.
	I wouldn't, you know.
	I've had to put my hand over a woman's mouth and tell her to be quiet because she wouldn't stop prattling in the middle of sex.
	Hashtag Helen Keller.
	Sorry, she started to hashtag Helen Keller.
	There it is.
	Hashtag Helen Keller.
	She's the new Hawk Talk girl.
	I had to hella kill her that bitch.
	Sounds kind of shit.
	She's literally the new Hawk Talk girl.
	Please no.
	I guess he technically started it.
	He's what I did.
	Oh my gosh.
	I might have occasionally met a random woman at the beach or Tinder and had sex with her within a few hours of the marriage.
	Hashtag Helen Keller.
	Not saying it was me.
	Okay, maybe this is the guy.
	Who knows?
	Maybe this is the guy.
	She probably does watch this podcast, honestly.
	He probably does.
	Next, Nick.
	Do we have it?
	Yeah, I have Morgan's.
	Were there any other sentence?
	Wasn't there the one?
	What about the girl who rage quit?
	Yeah, that's what we were going to do.
	Yeah, we'll just.
	Yeah, I forgot to send mine.
	Sorry.
	It's okay.
	Next.
	I want to know what her quick rant is.
	Green flags I look for.
	OMG, this is the girl who rage quit, by the way.
	We'll still put up her.
	There's green flags.
	I've never seen one up close.
	Surprising.
	Wow, look at this.
	All right.
	Next.
	Next.
	Me listening to you describe your finance job like I've never seen Wolf of Wall Street before.
	Okay.
	I go crazy for, oh, baby, I don't have to go anywhere.
	I've already arrived.
	She's saying she's already crazy.
	She isn't going to be.
	I'm not sure if that's what she's saying.
	Joke about her being a flight attendant.
	She's like, go crazy for, I don't have to go.
	I've already arrived.
	Being crazy.
	Okay, yes.
	Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's what every guy wants is a crazy woman.
	Yeah, next.
	Agreed.
	That's what they all get.
	I keep this extremely old photo that barely looks like me here for two reasons.
	I love 80s music.
	Everything is a costume party.
	Okay, next.
	Try to strangle my friend because he made me take a picture before I got to get another beer.
	Next.
	That's a wonderful thing to put on your dating.
	Okay.
	Next.
	And then we have whose?
	Who do we have?
	I'm looking for.
	I sent one in too.
	Yeah.
	Send away Tinder.
	While we're doing that, I guess that came in from David.
	Thank you, David.
	Hashtag Big Labymatter.
	Really the pressing issue of our time.
	Twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Like the video.
	Guys, if you want to get in your last TTS, get it in.
	Get it in, boys.
	Get it in, good sirs.
	Don't, Helen Keller, get it in.
	Get it in.
	Get that shit in, boys.
	Get it in.
	Don't put your hand over its mouth.
	Let it go.
	Just let it go.
	While he's pulling that up, I guess going back to Vanessa, you said you dated a guy that unalived his mom or dated a guy in the military who cheated on me by not bringing condom.
	Wait, what?
	Whoa.
	It was New Year's Eve, and some girl texted him, bring the condoms, and then, like, we broke up shortly after that, and then he ended up having two kids.
	So I was like, I guess he didn't bring the condoms because it was shortly after she got pregnant.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Cool.
	What's it about killing his mom?
	Cool story.
	Oh, that was someone else.
	That was somebody else.
	Okay.
	That's it.
	No, it was someone else.
	I was, he, that's the one that ghosted me, and then I was like, oh, what happened?
	And then I found out he unalived his mom.
	What the fuck?
	Well, at least he had a good excuse.
	So he didn't ghosted, he went to jail.
	Wait, he didn't get ghosted.
	Is we gonna have to choke a bitch?
	Yeah, his mom got ghosted.
	Oh, damn.
	Interesting dating in the past.
	I haven't dated dating up really quick, Nick.
	Okay, this is Belle.
	I want someone who is nice.
	LMFAO, just be nice to me and feed me.
	Want to go to a rave sometime looking for friends and maybe a girlfriend?
	I'm Polly, Philly Vegas.
	I still get texting on here.
	Ask for my number next.
	What the fuck?
	That's new array, next.
	Next.
	Next.
	Oh, and that's.
	I know how to cook.
	I'm hot and I'm hilarious because I was ugly when I was younger.
	Perks of dating me.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And then, Nick, there's last thing since you're just able to control the pull-ups.
	There's one more, but oh, that one?
	I think that's mine.
	I think I was just a re of everything that I had.
	There's, Nick, there's an Instagram post from her I wanted to pull up really quick if you could get that going.
	Excuse me.
	You want me to just follow her on Instagram?
	I think it should be the post.
	Oh, got it.
	Okay, I got it.
	Sorry, guys.
	I may be a mess, but I'm also very hot.
	Yeah.
	Hot mess.
	She belongs.
	Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to press that.
	My bad.
	What do I have?
	Hold on.
	We need that.
	Erroneous!
	I don't know.
	Erroneous.
	Okay, all right.
	Sorry, I had to.
	Okay, Carly.
	That's like a really old one when you need it.
	I know.
	I really wish you guys would have let me brought on my iCarly remote.
	What is that?
	I have an iCarly remote.
	Have you ever watched iCarly?
	No.
	This girl named Sam from my Carly and Shizz's remote, and it has sound effects too, where it has a boo button.
	So I had it, just in case you guys were going to say something that I just didn't want to answer, I could just press the boo button.
	Okay.
	Kind of like your little sound effects, too.
	It's kind of like the same thing.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	You can always bring in a no button.
	A what button?
	No button.
	I can bring in a no button.
	Sick.
	The one I'm going to do.
	What was her name?
	It basically was a no button, except it would just go boo.
	Like you would just say an opinion I didn't agree with, and I would just go boo.
	So moving on to Chrissy, you said, semi-traditional, I'm a Christian, but I grew up most of my life living as a secular person with libertarian values.
	You said you've dated a ton of toxic losers, but my now fiancé and I dated differently.
	Uh-oh.
	Okay.
	Withhold sex until marriage, go to church, give back to our community.
	And it was crazy how when you change your dating style, you ultimately change the dating outcome.
	And so just a question for you, Chrissy.
	You said that you dated differently, but you.
	So with your current fiancé, have you withheld sex?
	So you guys have not had sex?
	No.
	Sorry, what?
	No.
	No?
	Okay.
	But you have had sex before.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	You're both Christian, though.
	Okay.
	He's in the same situation.
	I know it's not ideal.
	And like, I get it out.
	Yeah.
	I don't actually have as strong of an objection if it's Within a religious context here, because it actually makes a little more sense to me.
	Although we've had religious Christian women who come on who will say that they frequently make mistakes, and it always just makes me think: well, are you a vegan if every week you accidentally eat meat?
	Or, well, not even accidentally.
	Like, you know, you accidentally would be like somebody, I don't know, you've got a veggie burrito and there's a piece of chicken.
	No, you willfully, are you a vegan if you willfully once a week eat meat?
	No.
	And I think the answer is no.
	No.
	No.
	You regret it, though.
	But then the very next week you have another T-bone steak.
	But you regret it.
	And then you commit yourself.
	You recommit yourself to veganism.
	Except a week later, you have a chicken breast.
	Anyways, I don't know.
	That's cool, though.
	Congrats.
	Cool, cool.
	Since you've been married?
	Does Andrew get an invite to the wedding?
	Absolutely not.
	Oh, wow.
	Damn, okay, sorry.
	I'm so sorry.
	You said you don't agree that sim culture in men is as bad or prevalent as some of the guest co-hosts would say?
	I said this?
	Chrissy Clark?
	I think these are in your notes.
	I don't think I would ever.
	Could have been from a long time ago, though, because we've been trying to get this for like two years.
	For a while.
	Don't agree that sim culture in men is as boundary.
	I mean, if you don't hold that position, we don't have to.
	I don't really hold that position anymore.
	Okay.
	Sim culture is terrible.
	Okay.
	Moving to Chelsea.
	Chelsea, you said your life in your Instagram.
	Your life.
	What the hell?
	Life seems to be built on a series of, ooh, look, a cliff, I'm going to dive off it.
	And you can't make the shit up moments.
	It seems to be like that.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Very impulsive.
	Literally, like, there's a cliff dying off of it.
	In your pre-scale.
	In your pre-show notes, you said something about a set of twins, or maybe this is somewhere else.
	A set of twins, a pippy long-stocking wig, pineapple life.
	Yeah, I've lived a bit.
	Oh my god, my husband needs to cover his earbas.
	There was in college, there's a set of twins.
	I didn't know that there were twins at first.
	It was Halloween, and we slept with one of them, and he had a pippy long stocking wig on.
	It was really awkward.
	Then I ended up sleeping with his twin brother by accident because I thought it was him.
	Thank God.
	Damn.
	Okay.
	Pineapple life.
	What's that?
	Those.
	Oh, those.
	Swinging.
	Yeah, so it was not actually into it.
	But, well, I guess I made out other girl a couple times, but I guess that's not really actually my pineapple life.
	So we can move on from that.
	Were you a swinger?
	No.
	No.
	Uh-oh.
	I don't think making out of the girl is actually swinging.
	Okay.
	You said the historical culture for women and today's destruction.
	You wanted to talk on the historical culture for women and today's destruction of women by women at a man's expense.
	So, like, today's modern feminism and just the way that women seem to like hate on men now in today's culture just seems to be so different.
	Like, it seems, I don't even know how to word it.
	Feminism now, it seems like it's changed so much to where it's gotten so extreme that it's almost embarrassing to be a woman.
	It is become feminism has become hating men and not necessarily like about equality and about having those things.
	It's more about being demeaning against the opposite sex or in from what I've seen about modern day feminists, it just seems to be about men hating.
	And for me, I or that they don't have any worth or value when to me they have some of the most worth and most value.
	Yeah, I guess that's just my position on that.
	All right.
	We talked about the nanny stuff.
	So basically, I mean, just to reiterate, for those just tuning in or who didn't, who missed this part, your now husband, you were the nanny for the now husband and his ex-wife.
	Correct.
	Okay.
	Were you like, did you have the hots for him when you were the nanny?
	No, we didn't even talk.
	I thought he was an asshole.
	Is he still an asshole or no?
	Sometimes.
	Do you like the asshole thing, though?
	Sometimes.
	Okay.
	You said that I feel they, I suppose me and Andrew or the show, can be a bit harsh regarding the worth a woman puts out, but I feel they neglect to reflect on the history of women and a man's need to pay to see us naked or more.
	Playboy Penthouse, which my mother was on the cover of, BTW.
	Women have been paid, thought of, and treated as chattel since the frontier days.
	Or how about the red light districts, etc., etc.
	While I'm against and disgusted at this OnlyFans era, men are equally to blame for the destruction of a woman's image.
	Well, two things there, and I think Andrew might have some thoughts on this.
	There's so men are equally to blame for the destruction of a woman's image, but before that, there was women have been paid, thought of, and treated as chattel.
	Am I saying that word right?
	Yeah.
	Since the frontier days.
	Andrew, do you have any thoughts there on the frontier day chattel thing?
	Yeah, I mean, prostitutes.
	Yeah, poor houses.
	So, I mean, yeah, if you're going to prostitute yourself, you're going to get John's.
	I'm not sure that that's – see, that's the thing, though.
	It's a name.
	I'm not sure that that's objectification or that's treating a woman like chattel if they want to be a prostitute because it's easy money.
	It's more or less they pay for or I mean, I assume, have you ever looked at porn, you ever looked at Playboy?
	Of course, sure.
	But then if you look down on a woman for it, then isn't that kind of a double standard?
	Well, I mean, I guess, but not really.
	So if I tell my kid, because I'm a smoker, not to smoke, is that double standard?
	No.
	Because your health is a little bit different, cancel that.
	But if you're paying, if you're paying attention, so another word, but then you can do a bad thing, right?
	And still know it's wrong for another person to do a bad thing you're doing, right?
	No, I'm talking about men demeaning a woman for doing something that he is enabling as well.
	Yeah, sure.
	Well, I mean, absent of John, there could be no prostitutes, and absent of prostitutes, there could be no Johns, right?
	Yeah, I understand that.
	I guess what I'm saying, though, is absent this material being available to begin with, absent even being available for you to view, nobody's going to have slip-ups, right?
	It's not there to slip up on.
	Correct.
	That's kind of the point that I'm moving towards, right?
	But the enabling of female promiscuity and then later pornography came out of feminism in the sexual revolution.
	This was not a thing that men were pushing.
	They might consume it, and they do consume it, but they definitely weren't pushing the sexual revolution at all.
	And I'm more almost like looking down on women who do porn, not that I like that I would do it or that I agree with it, but then simultaneously watch it.
	So it's kind of a hit.
	Well, I think there's a distinction between doing behavior currently and have ever done the behavior.
	So when the internet came out, all there was.
	Kids in my age bracket was, it was everywhere.
	Yeah.
	You couldn't even avoid looking at it if you wanted to.
	It's not to say I've never viewed porn with intent, right?
	Perfect.
	I'm sure every one of us has viewed porn at some point with intent.
	But that doesn't mean that because that is true, that that means that that should be something you advocate for or are doing or currently still do.
	So I think you have a stronger case.
	Somebody's currently, you know, like a porn fanatic while at the same time being angry at the women who are producing the porn, right?
	Or who they're looking at.
	Yeah, I think maybe you have a point.
	But then let me ask you this: what if you're dying from lung cancer and you're really mad at the tobacco company?
	It's the same thing.
	Yeah, I mean, but I mean, it seems reasonable that you could be mad at the tobacco company.
	You could be sucked into something or this addictive behavior or whatever.
	And I think you can still blame them even if you're viewing the thing.
	Though I understand your stance that it's a little different, right?
	Like, especially with the OnlyFans are now, because the women are getting rich off of it and it's getting them that enabling them to want to do that more and looking more for those lines of work because it's easy money and it's steering them kind of that wrong direction.
	But at the same time, it's being enabled because people are paying for it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, there's nothing more dangerous than the North American simp.
	Nothing.
	It's like the most dangerous creature on earth is the North American Simp.
	So the thing is, I agree with you.
	You got to get rid of simps who are enabling women.
	I mean, it's such a parasocial relationship, too.
	It is.
	It's so gross.
	Now, that's gross.
	What's gross is having a parasocial relationship with a woman through a screen for sexual fear.
	That's disturbing on many levels.
	Yes.
	But no, I don't think it's hypocritical that if men have ever viewed porn, that they're against porn or women.
	No, I just mean if they demean them for it, but then like simultaneously pay for it.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, that's that.
	That's well, now you're getting into like weird fetishes that people have in your life.
	It was like, if you kind of demean them for it, but then simultaneously paying for it, then you're kind of enabling it.
	No, I agree with that.
	Yeah.
	Totally agree.
	I don't know where Brian was going with this, but I can come back.
	I was just posting a story.
	Oh, you got your notes up?
	I could go through them.
	You got to stay up.
	Well, I can really briefly rejoin just to engage in that really quick.
	So just one thing on the whole, like, well, men consume porn, but they have this judgment of women.
	Would it be wrong for a man who consumes porn to refuse to date a woman who does porn?
	Is that like hypocritical or is that a little bit what you're getting at?
	I'm saying if they're going to engage in it, then like you're kind of enabling it, but then don't demean them for it too.
	Well, let's say you don't demean the woman, but as men, say you watch porn every single day.
	Do you think it would be wrong for a man who watches porn every single day to not want to date a woman who does porn?
	Absolutely not.
	I think that is a valid yeah.
	Her stance is just yeah.
	Her stance is just you probably shouldn't be raging about the thing you're consuming, right?
	Sure.
	Let's see, Lindsay.
	I'm a married mom of four girls, part of a blended family, and I can speak on the trials and tribulations of being a mixed family with the exes.
	That won't stop at anything to destroy the sanctity of my family.
	I've had court battles in two different states going through the legal system and seeing how corrupt the system actually is.
	So when you say the system is corrupt, what do you mean?
	As far as that, it's just like there's a lot of people go into like, I'm going to get divorced.
	I'm going to, the woman's going to win, you know, all these things.
	And really what it's about is like it is 50 shades of gray.
	It's not black and white like people think.
	So just if you're going through that situation, think about those things and be smart about it.
	And it's like, so the two different states thing is that my ex lives in Texas and I lost my court battle because the judge didn't like people from Colorado.
	So they were berating me in court, calling me a pothead.
	And I was an Olympic weightlifter going through USATA and WADA, which are the anti-doping agencies.
	And he's calling me a pothead in court for no reason.
	Because Colorado legalized weed.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And so did you lose the custody dispute because of that?
	It wasn't specifically because of that, but it was I lost because, okay, my now 18-year-old daughter, who was 15 at the time, was struggling in school.
	And so they thought that she would do better in school in Texas, even though she had spoken to the judge.
	And like, it's a whole mess.
	We're still kind of going through things, so I kind of have to dance around stuff.
	But ultimately, I lost the case because they thought Texas's school system was better than Colorado's.
	Wait, and just curious, when it came to the weed thing, the judge came to this conclusion simply by virtue of you having lived in Colorado, or did your husband present an argument or evidence that you smoked weed?
	No, all on his own because I lived in Colorado.
	The husband didn't make any accusations of drug use?
	That's peculiar from the judge.
	Yeah.
	I'll grant you that.
	Okay, you said you have an 18-year-old daughter who's going through her own issues, and watching her having to sort through the pool of boys as possible boyfriends is incredibly heartbreaking.
	I can go down the rabbit hole of the nonsense she has to choose from.
	Fortunately, unfortunately for her, she has grown up with a dad who is an alpha male, or you could call him a man's man.
	And everyone she possibly wants to date needs to come meet him.
	And he is a 6'2 bearded man that is very masculine.
	And these boys show up and can't even have a conversation with either of us, let alone give a proper handshake.
	It is so sad the generation of boys that is coming up who can't even figure out if they are if they're male or female.
	Okay.
	All right, that's another thing.
	But so your experience seeing the, I guess, the guys that your daughter's dating, they're wimpy, no handshake.
	Yeah.
	So we live in the communicate.
	They can't do it.
	They don't look you in the eye.
	They don't even understand how to have a little handshake.
	They can't even understand how to have a bad thing.
	Yeah, half of them won't even come inside.
	Text for the car come out.
	Yeah, and it's super sad for her because we live in the forest, so we're out bucking trees and she's got her own chainsaw and all these things.
	So she knows she is capable and can handle things, but she can't find, you know, a boyfriend that can.
	Thank God for those Santa Barbara cars.
	So yeah, so she struggles with that and it's really sad because you're like, she knows what she wants because she's grown up with her, you know, her, well, stepdad, but he adopted her.
	So her dad now, who is extremely masculine, can do all these things.
	And she's like, I just, there is nobody out there like that.
	Or that she's found.
	So it's sad.
	Would that be a good argument for an age gap relationship?
	Yeah, she probably need.
	Well, we've had that conversation with her because she's like, well, maybe I need to go older.
	And I'm like, well, maybe you do.
	You know, as long as they are willing to have that conversation with us and be a part of our family and it's not ick or weird, you know, he's not trying to abuse her, then we'll totally accept them into our family.
	Sure.
	Yeah, I understand the exact struggle you're talking about.
	It's sad.
	Yeah.
	You understand you have that too, Andrew, with your kids?
	I can't say the proper word to describe it.
	Because we're on YouTube, there is a word I would normally say to describe the type of young men who have been suitors for my daughters.
	But I can't say the word.
	It starts with an F.
	I know.
	Feminine.
	But anyway, yeah, feminine.
	Exactly.
	Feminine.
	It's just a lack of socialization skills.
	They don't have them.
	Oh, absolutely.
	They don't know how to communicate at all.
	Oh, no, not at all.
	I mean, they're constantly on their phone.
	But this is not, by the way, if you experiment with this, if you actually take this just outside what you've noticed with the suitors for your kid and go to like fast food restaurants, shit, like none of them can socialize.
	Oh, I know.
	She works that one.
	Well, she did.
	It's insane.
	This is a different one, but.
	It's yeah, they just don't know how to socialize.
	No.
	Like they're scared to order?
	No, they literally.
	So like, okay, here's an example.
	Make eye contact.
	I think the first job I ever had was at a, it was like an after-school job at a McDonald's, I think.
	Okay.
	He didn't really have to train me to do much because it was a really easy job.
	So if you were working drive-through, nobody had to tell me to say welcome to McDonald's.
	I'd heard this a million times, right?
	Here's your this, here's your that.
	Have a nice day, sir.
	Come again, you know, that type of thing.
	And I just open the window.
	You know, like, hey, can I get, can I get some, you know, can I, how about some ranch?
	And I'm just like, open your mouth and say something, you know what I mean?
	But that's how it is.
	It's sad.
	Yeah, it is sad.
	Yeah.
	Yep.
	So I get the struggle.
	You got it, Andrew?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	We're good.
	We have, let's see.
	Okay.
	Well, I think that's all the notes.
	So here's what we're going to do.
	Any chats?
	We'll do a roast session, and then we'll wrap up the show here soon, guys.
	It was a good show.
	We went a little long, but good show, guys.
	Good panel.
	It would have been good if she had stayed.
	She should have stayed.
	Favorite.
	I mean, luckily, you gave some pushback.
	That was good, but we needed her.
	We needed to get her.
	She didn't bring notes, though.
	She brought notes.
	She should have brought notes on notes.
	If you cast a spell, could you bring her back?
	Try.
	If you pay me.
	We should have left us a note.
	Maybe if we get you.
	You know how to get to my website.
	If we get you back on the pod, maybe next time you can show us how to cast a spell or whatever.
	Yeah.
	Or cast a hex.
	That's what I'm saying.
	No?
	I'll get on that, man.
	No?
	You're not, you don't want to.
	No.
	He'd be horrified to see what's in the middle.
	Do you believe?
	I thought you said it was full of shit.
	You'd be horrified.
	Something that you'd like to do.
	He would be horrified by my girl purse.
	That's true.
	I did say that.
	Yeah, you say it's bullshit, so I shouldn't.
	You still shouldn't dabble with shit like that.
	Yes.
	Yeah, I wouldn't want to do anything that makes anyone uncomfortable.
	But I did bring tarot cards because I wasn't sure.
	Is that okay, Andrew?
	Are you okay with tarot cards?
	No, not even.
	Nope.
	I thought you said it was bullshit.
	A lot of Christians are very avidly against.
	When we have, by the way, most of the time people are witches, it's because they hate Christians.
	No, I would disagree with that.
	Totally true.
	You know, Christian witches exist.
	No, they don't.
	They do.
	No, they do.
	No, they don't.
	No, they do.
	Okay, you know what?
	Leprechauns and unicorns exist too.
	Well, that's very different than Lizzie.
	If you take a horse and you call it a unicorn, it's now a unicorn.
	Practicing witchcraft is a spiritual belief.
	It's not a religious belief.
	Okay.
	You can be atheist and you can be a witch because believing in witchcraft doesn't mean you believe in the power of a God.
	What is a religion?
	And I'm not a Christian witch, so I can't say that.
	Let's back up and see if we can untangle that.
	They do exist.
	Just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they don't exist.
	Okay, well, then I guess you can just call whatever you want, but that doesn't make it the thing.
	If I say that's a horse and you say it's a horse and it is a horse, we agree, right?
	But what if I look at a horse and I say, ah, it's a fucking unicorn?
	Am I right?
	No.
	Okay, what makes me wrong?
	Science.
	But when it comes to religious, hang on a second.
	What do you mean?
	Science.
	Science didn't name it horse.
	What makes it a horse is a characteristic and set of traits which only a horse can have.
	Can't be a dog because otherwise it would have traits.
	There are Christians that work within the Bible and they practice witchcraft and they I'm not saying whether it's hypocritical, but I'm saying that they exist.
	Well, I'm not saying, I'm not even talking about hypocrisy.
	I'm saying that for a thing to be a thing, it has to have traits, characteristics, something that defines it as the thing.
	So I would say that they do because they wholeheartedly follow and avidly follow Jesus.
	You can't do that and also be a witch.
	Okay, imagine saying, well, why can't witchcraft is just a study of energy?
	Hang on, so why can't I say that I'm an avid follower of Jesus Satanist?
	Because that's too completely different.
	Right, so it'd be contradictory to the position, right?
	And so therefore, Satanism is a religion.
	Christianity is a religion.
	Satanism is not a religion.
	It's a religious belief.
	Satanism is a religion.
	The Church of Satan is a secular organization that means it's non-religious.
	There's also non-secular Satanists.
	That's true, but I'm not talking about them.
	I'm talking about Satanists.
	Why can't I say that I am a Jesus-loving Satanist?
	I guess you could say that.
	And that would be a true statement based on your belief.
	Christian witches exist, single bachelors exist, five-sided triangles exist, men who bang men and are straight exist prophets.
	In other words, if anybody can characterize anything they want as whatever they want, then the meaning of the thing no longer has any meaning.
	So if you say, I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in Jesus Christ, what would actually make you a Christian?
	They do believe in Jesus, though.
	Yeah, but what would make you Christian if you said that you don't?
	I don't fully know because I'm not a Christian witch.
	I don't identify with that.
	But they do exist, and it's actually really fascinating.
	Well, so here, I'll concede some ground that there are people who call themselves Christian witches who exist.
	Whether they are Christians or not, that's debatable, but I can't debate it with you because you say you don't really know what a Christian is.
	I know what a Christian is.
	What is it?
	I would, a Christian, someone who believes in Jesus.
	They believe in heaven and hell.
	Well, it's not believing in Jesus.
	You also have to follow the teachings of Jesus.
	Yeah.
	And what is the following teachings of Jesus Christ when it comes to you utilizing magic or anything other than the use of way of Jesus Christ himself?
	Oh, I understand that.
	Way on what is it?
	What is the teachings around this?
	Oh, I know they're against witchcraft.
	Okay, so if that is true and Christianity is following the teachings of Jesus Christ, then how could you be following the teachings?
	People wildly disagree on the Bible.
	That's why there's so many different branches of Christianity.
	They do disagree on different topics, though.
	Oh, you know what?
	Let's do this.
	It's okay.
	I'm not going to sit here and defend a Christian witch because I'm not a Christian witch.
	Anyway, in any case.
	So I'm not going to.
	But it is interesting for people who are.
	TTS is 69, guys.
	If you want, you can get another Roast in 69 TTS.
	Actually, Walnut, I just pulled it up since from Pagan.
	Women's body count is mostly called out by other women.
	These women are the ones sleuthing.
	Women, woman, woman, women.
	The girls are now getting me confused.
	Women, woman, woman.
	Wait, he's doing it.
	Woman, do you screwed me up, Pagan?
	Women do this because it has a social impact.
	Ho men don't care if called out.
	So blame the matriarchy.
	Speaking of body count, thank you, Pagan, for bringing that up.
	Do you guys think body count matters?
	This is what I want on my iCarly remote for.
	Why?
	I was going to say, yes, it matters.
	I'll just say it all already.
	We didn't ask you what it was, though.
	No, but I just think body count's a really stupid topic.
	Stupid topic?
	Yeah, I think it's a good question.
	So you would think, for example, or you would say, men who do care about body count are what?
	Not the man for me.
	Insecure.
	Men that can't get it in real life.
	No, not the man for me.
	That's their moral ground.
	I just don't think someone's determination and who they are as a person and their character is necessarily defined by their body.
	Especially because there's a lot of women who maybe slept with a lot of men and then decided that they decided they wanted to be a Christian.
	But there's no disagreement with that.
	There's no disagreement that just the amount of people that you slept with is the entire definition of who and what you are.
	No, but I think a lot of people will have judgments around you doing this, sure.
	But that doesn't mean that we're saying that's the entirety of what you are.
	So the question is, is it important when it comes to dating?
	Clearly it seems to be important when it comes to dating.
	To some people, to me it's not, but that's my personal opinion.
	Yeah.
	What about you?
	It doesn't matter.
	Does it matter?
	Yeah, I think it does.
	Okay.
	I think it matters.
	I think it matters if it's an insane number.
	I think it matters.
	Yeah, you can guess.
	It matters.
	Body count?
	Yes, it matters.
	So going back around the table, starting with you, body count doesn't matter.
	What's your body count?
	I don't know.
	Range?
	Probably like 30.
	Okay.
	30.
	Ish?
	Ish.
	Yeah, but mainly women.
	Like, I think it's, like, been around 20 women, men, probably 10.
	So 30-ish.
	30 to 40.
	30 to 40.
	Fair to say.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	I don't know.
	Higher, women.
	Higher, higher.
	Into the mic.
	So how about, let's start with the scenes you've done.
	So how many scenes have you done?
	Between collabs and professional scenes, it's a lot.
	Over 100?
	I have no idea.
	Over 200?
	I would just say around like 100 to 200.
	100 to 200?
	Wait, between men and women.
	You said 30 earlier, yeah.
	Yeah, you said like way lower number earlier.
	Because she was leaving out the other part.
	She was thinking just straight corn scenes instead of collabs, right?
	Like that you shoot or they shoot.
	I was talking about mainstream a lot.
	Oh, yeah.
	But between collabs, it's different.
	Oh, I should try to specify that.
	If, anyways, over 100?
	She said 200 and 200.
	And some of these scenes, though, involve multiple men, correct?
	Yeah, and there's also women, and I also count women, I guess.
	Sure.
	And what's the most amount of men that you've had in the scene?
	Have you ever had like three men in the scene?
	Unfortunately, not yet.
	Only two.
	Two is the most.
	Yeah.
	Okay, two men in the scene.
	So, and then what about civilian?
	And you, you, wait, how long have you been doing OF slash porn?
	I started out OF like almost two years ago.
	Two years.
	And then you got into porn more recently.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I see.
	Okay.
	And so.
	Wait, and so that's, you said over a hundred men?
	So have you racked all of this up in the last two years?
	I've had a high body count before this.
	Oh, okay.
	So from the civilian angle, then.
	Yeah.
	The civvies.
	Yeah, but now I no longer do it civilians.
	How many civvies is we're going to have to do this?
	How many civilians?
	50 or 60?
	Hold on, I'm trying to do the math here.
	So it's safe to say somewhere around 170 to over 200 men.
	Like around 150, maybe.
	That's if we add up all the civilians?
	Yeah.
	I'm including women too, like, I don't know.
	Okay.
	50-50 maybe Sorry.
	No.
	Between men and women, you mean?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	If anyone going around the table, I guess I can open it up to the people who say it does matter.
	Body count?
	Seven?
	Okay.
	My husband and I'm not.
	Real Trump donated $69.
	Brian, when the talker flight attendant left, I thought you lost half the panel.
	Turns out it was just her.
	I bet when the gate attendant sees she's on the flight, they add 30 minutes to the arrival time.
	For sure, at the end of the day, or feed her, but she'll never see that.
	All right, thank you for the TTS, man.
	Honestly, if it wasn't for you.
	Jimmy donated $69.
	Ick queen age gap doesn't mean men aren't mature.
	Most women 18 to 20 in the Midwest are just weird.
	My cousin dated a girl who would get upset and say I'm just a little girl in public.
	They were two-year gaps.
	Yo, Jimmy, thank you for the TTS.
	I do think, though, she might...
	I don't know if it was the...
	There were a couple of mean chats that came through.
	We were granted, I think, some of the supers we didn't show just because they were pretty nasty.
	But I think it was maybe you guys, you guys went a little hard in the chats.
	It didn't help our cause for keeping her on the panel.
	Just saying.
	Just saying, guys, you know.
	They don't give a shit.
	They give a shit by it.
	I just want to talk shit.
	Cool.
	Wait, so what?
	Oh, body count?
	I would say, my husband and I never talked about it, but I would say it's pretty close to Lindsay.
	Okay.
	10.
	Also, 10.
	Single digits.
	Less than 20.
	Okay.
	Multiply it by three, and that's the real number.
	For all of you.
	Just kidding.
	I'm kidding.
	Just a joke.
	Just a joke.
	Okay.
	Let's see.
	What else do we have to?
	I think we got through everything.
	Oh, we did buy a count.
	Well, I guess the last thing was the bear thing, really quick.
	We won't linger on it, but I'm just collecting data on this at this point.
	Would you rather be in a forest with a random man or random bear?
	And the scenario is there's not motivations as to why the man is in the forest.
	It's just you get like randomly teleported, transported, transported into a forest.
	Same with the bear, same with the man.
	That was not a teleporting sound.
	It's you don't watch Dragon Ball Z?
	Oh, yeah.
	That is the teleporting sound.
	You're right.
	Yeah.
	The Goku.
	Do you pick bear or man?
	We pick.
	Man, because I would rather kill a man than a bear.
	I wouldn't want to harm an animal.
	That's pretty heavy metal.
	Okay.
	Are you a vegan?
	Oh, I can't.
	I'm allergic to tofu and soy.
	She'd rather kill a woman.
	And my ex-girlfriend tried so hard to make me.
	So what do you mean you wouldn't?
	I can't eat vegan food.
	It makes me like violently sick.
	But then you kill animals all the fucking time.
	I have to.
	And it makes me really sad.
	I tried going vegan.
	I tried going vegan for three years.
	I cannot do it.
	It's a dietary restriction.
	But if you kill the bear in the forest, you could eat the bear.
	You're not going to eat the man, are you?
	She's now a cannibal too, I guess.
	Survival at that point.
	Why do you have to kill either one of them, though?
	That's what I'm confused about.
	Well, it doesn't really matter who you're in the woods with.
	David Tuzekiak donated $69.
	Roast, wake up, grab a brush and put on all a little makeup.
	Pie the scars to hide up the shake-up.
	I want a free first hex or love spell, please.
	Respect to fight attendant.
	W flight attendant.
	W flight attendant.
	That's a big F to the flight attendant, but big fat L she took today.
	Big L. Andrew had the kid gloves on, too.
	Kid gloves.
	Guns were not blazing.
	Guns not blazing.
	Big guns.
	They were blanks.
	Big, huge, fat L she took today.
	They were blanks.
	She had so many notes.
	It was a big L.
	She had so much potential.
	Mayh.
	A large L. By the way, man.
	Mayhem.
	Man.
	Yeah, man.
	Rather than bear man.
	This is what we're doing.
	Man.
	Oh, well, yeah, we'll go around the table.
	Which do you pick?
	Man, what would I do with a bear?
	Like, scary.
	Man, for sure.
	man man man man man wasn't it i was not i was not expecting man from you but Okay.
	That's a good one.
	Before we wrap up, any final thoughts from anybody?
	Any final topics or quick things you wouldn't like to hit on before we wrap up?
	Speak now forever.
	Hold your peace.
	I would like to say something.
	No.
	Okay.
	Kidding.
	Go on.
	Go ahead.
	I mean, it was part of why I wanted to come on here because it is a conversation that I hear that's brought up a lot.
	It's the whole abortion versus keeping situation.
	I watch a lot of different things.
	I watch a lot of your podcast and I wanted to come on.
	How do you do that with no internet at your home?
	I have on my phone.
	I watch my phone.
	So you still have internet?
	I have that kind of internet.
	I don't pay for Comcast because I don't have Comcast.
	All right, go ahead.
	But the one thing I don't hear in any conversations that I listen to, whether it be on your podcast or any other one, is like the third option, which is adoption.
	And earlier, even when she was giving out her reasons for why she thought people should abort, she started to bring up the whole foster care situation.
	And it's a very large misconception that people think that children who come out of pregnant women's bellies, children go to foster care because they don't.
	Like the baby I gave away went straight into its family, like straight into the family.
	And a lot of people I've talked to, it like flabbergasted them.
	And I was just wanting people to know that when you give a baby away from adoption from your womb, it goes straight into a family.
	Another thing I think a lot of women should know is as the person, I actually denied it, but you can make an N-word up to between $40,000 and $70,000 just for being pregnant.
	Because the family who's adopting your baby is going to pay for your rent, pay for your car, as a surrogate.
	Well, you are a surrogate too.
	You're being a surrogate.
	Because you are a person who's become pregnant with your own egg.
	And so now the adopting parents, they're paying for a lot of things.
	Because I hear a lot of girls say, well, I can't afford the food while I'm pregnant or the doctor visits or I'm going to have to buy all these clothes.
	And no, you won't.
	No, you won't.
	And if you're afraid that the struggle is the struggle and that's why you can't just stay pregnant and give life to a family in need of life, then there's a whole, you just don't know this situation.
	We don't usually get a chance to move over to any of the adoption arguments because we're stuck on whether or not this activity is even murder.
	So if it's not murder or even if it's more charitable, it's not killing, if that's what the belief is, if you don't believe that it is, why would you ever waste your time with adoption?
	Because you think you're just eliminating non-life, right?
	To them, it's like burning a table.
	It's just, it's meaningless.
	So you have to establish the principle of life first before you can go on to the solution of what to do.
	Yeah, and I've always, and I was really hoping that you would bring up a reason because a scenario that I always think of when people say, well, it's not a life, it's not a life.
	It'd be like going to a farm and digging up all the plants that were just planted because they're not plants yet.
	Like saying that a baby inside of a belly is not a life, it's not a human because it hasn't reached certain stages or it's not come out of a womb yet or it hasn't breathed air.
	I always think that's just so ridiculous to say that because there's so many things that aren't quite what they should be because they're in a development stage.
	And for us as a society to look at a growing human being and there'd be a 50-50 split between some of us who say no, that's a life and other people who say no, that's just a clump of cells.
	It's not a human even though it's growing inside of a human.
	It just blows my mind.
	And I just wanted to come on here and talk about how I think that that's a bad argument to make.
	And the reason I'd say it's a really bad argument to make is because you're not going to be able to make any kind of moral justification for why it would not be okay to go dig up seeds.
	Daria donated $30.
	TTS is now $30.
	Chi Chi to Brian and Andrew, you guys are the best.
	Please do the bow video.
	We can do that.
	Also, to all the girls, would you bother your eyeline FM boys?
	So guys, TTS is now 30.
	Oh, Jimmy.
	Jimmy's donated $69.
	W. Brian.
	Good show, as always.
	No crazy attackers tonight long.
	Prove women have violent tendencies.
	Andrew, I would love to pick your brain one day.
	Always learn something when you're on the show.
	Good, man.
	Yo, Jimmy, I appreciate the TTS, man.
	Thank you.
	Daria, I can, I'm going to have to go behind the scenes to get the valve video set up, but we can do it kind of here at the end.
	We have Matthew Harder.
	Hey, thank you for the $100 soup chat, man.
	Thank you so much, Matt.
	Church of Satan and secular Satanists who follow Paradise Lost are all Satanists.
	They both violate the first commandment of pride.
	I, me, my, I me, my, mine.
	Yeah, I don't disagree with you, but as you know, part of my argumentation style is just to grant arguments to show the absurdity of them.
	Thank you, Matthew Harder, for the big $100 super chat here at the end of the show.
	Really appreciate it, Matt.
	Thank you.
	I think that's their new name.
	First time super chatting, maybe?
	Thank you, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	Guys, $30 TTS last call.
	Get the roast in.
	Roast session.
	You know, she was big on dunking on these predatory, these.
	She thinks these predatory men dating women three years younger than them.
	That was not audible.
	Predatory? I said to her.
	She thinks a man who dates a woman who's like a day younger than him, predatory.
	She thinks they're predators.
	So if you want to roast her, you can.
	She'll put X on you.
	There's way better things you can roast me on.
	She also.
	There's way more things you can roast me on.
	Okay, like what?
	Oh, she has a thing.
	Wait, I don't know.
	Don't engage in our king.
	Actually, roast her.
	Go ahead.
	What should they roast you about?
	The whole like you can have an abortion a day before you otherwise.
	I wouldn't do it.
	I wouldn't do it, but y'all can do that.
	You want to do that?
	That's your choice.
	What should they roast you on?
	Your gigantic hoop earrings?
	Actually, they're not that big, to be honest.
	You can't put a thing in it.
	I don't know.
	They could roast you on the like the triple.
	It's one, but it looks like the three.
	They're gonna roast Helen Keller, the whole thing.
	It's just gonna $800.
	All Paladins donated $30.
	Just when I thought you had somehow found every single crazy woman in California, you somehow still find a way to get new guests onto your show.
	W, Brian, L for all of us.
	Juxtaposo 3 donated $29.99.
	Remove humanity from a person.
	This is the only way one could justify in their deluded mind that nursed is okay.
	Once you dehumanize, there is no limit to the evil you could commit.
	That's correct.
	God bless Andrew.
	100% correct.
	Real Trump donated $29.
	Brian, I keep trying to imagine the talker sitting in the tiny jump seat on the plane when it takes soft.
	She has to get that fat strap to buckle me quickly.
	GMD Jim donated $30.
	The first time we find a microbe on another planet, they will call it life.
	But this evil world will not call a baby in the womb a life.
	This world truly deserves to burn.
	All right, thank you.
	Billy Infamous donated $30.
	Thank you, man.
	Voldemort, Christian witches are called heretics.
	Witchcraft is satanic.
	Boom roasted.
	Owned.
	Checkmate.
	Sure.
	Boomerasted.
	Witch.
	Sylvalf donated $30.
	Thank you, Wolf.
	This is why I asked the question: if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?
	It was to test your logic and to see how willing you are to converting.
	They're not willing at all.
	Thank you, Wolf.
	Not willing.
	I'm willing.
	Mr. Bullet donated $30.
	Patriarchy Inquisition Communique.
	Grand Inquisitor, Brian has failed to deliver the autographed blue white cup with certificate of authenticity.
	Where is it?
	My inventory audit confirms this.
	Execute order 66.
	After our little debate, we have a debate.
	For the Prong Star, I'd love to roast you, but you've already been spit roasted more than I care for.
	W for all the pro-life women of the panel.
	Fight the death cult woke mind virus.
	Well, Paladins thank you.
	Jaivanik donated $30.
	Base told a married women.
	Based blue shirt blonde.
	Younger blue, nice voice.
	Bad idea to pronounce the D-Gen.
	Yellow, generic basic conservatism is cringe.
	Witch.
	Pornstar quit it.
	What is pronounced?
	Reap what you so donated $30.
	Okay.
	By the witch's own logic, no one should take what she says into consideration because she has no life experience and her prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed.
	She cooked herself.
	Yo, Richard, thank you.
	That's very cool.
	The Roth Thunderscore PSA donated $30.
	The panel rating increased by six when the flight attendant left, so you are all tens now.
	$1,000 for a champagne pop, but how much for a lint roll?
	PSA, I'll do it.
	Just drop 99.
	Why not?
	I'll do it for $69.
	You know, I'll give a little discount.
	I will lint roll the shit out of Andrew.
	What the fuck?
	I will.
	I will.
	Yeah, why would you do that, Brian?
	Why would you say that?
	I'm an enthusiastic lens roller.
	What?
	You want someone to half-ass lint rolling, Andrew?
	You want me to half-asscore PSA donated literally?
	I'm going to lint roll Andrew.
	I'm going to literal the shit out of you, Andrew.
	All right, put your arm out, bro.
	Put it out.
	Show me your tubby, Andrew.
	Show me your tubby.
	Skew it.
	Woo!
	Excuse me.
	Wicked Wally donated $30.
	Ryan, I have to help Andrew.
	Sorry, Rachel.
	Feminism is the lowering of standards.
	No aspect of feminism doesn't lead to lower standards for women.
	You're appealing to feminism for sex if she won't put out.
	Wait, what?
	Boston's fans of Bidenated $29.99.
	Who McGremley needs me for breakfast?
	Bastard.
	Jimif donated $30.
	If I got Helen Keller die DB traumatized, I can't wait to hear the rest of the stories lol.
	If Queen is descendant of the one that didn't get caught during the trials, Salem one escaped.
	Salem created a term.
	Helen Kellard.
	Well, I think that there's that one song by 303 that's like, Jush, girl, shush your lips.
	Do the Helen Keller.
	And talk with your hips.
	That was Loki written about you.
	I want to go home.
	There's going to be shirts tomorrow that says, I got Helen Keller.
	Oh, God.
	You need to get like a witch cackle.
	That would be silly.
	Do I have?
	I don't know if I have.
	Can you do one?
	I can try.
	It's probably not going to be good.
	Try to sound one.
	Try to sound like a witch.
	Okay, hold on.
	Oh, that was trash.
	Dolphins.
	That was trash.
	That was trash.
	All right, I'm done.
	That was most trash.
	I do know a chick who can read your mind.
	Oh, we're in a carpet.
	Well, she sat right here.
	She could speak dolphins.
	Yeah, she could speak the dolphins.
	We should get you guys linked up.
	There's a dolphin girl?
	Yeah, we had the dolphin girl on the show recently.
	Oh, okay.
	She can tell us she could, well, she can communicate.
	Like, she actually communicated.
	To dolphins.
	Oh, okay.
	All right.
	What do you mean?
	Oh, okay.
	Like, oh, that's unbelievable.
	What witchcraft is believable?
	Okay, that's very different.
	But I thought you meant she was like a marine biologist and she knew the different sounds of dolphins.
	I'm autistic, so when you bring up like dolphins and sharks, I get real.
	They just do the wom, wom, wom thing, and they just come up to the shore, apparently.
	I think there is something to it.
	Isn't that echolocation?
	Telepathically called dolphins.
	No, it's not echolocation.
	It's not echolocation.
	She uses dynamic telepathy.
	Yeah.
	She's sick.
	You guys should have had us on the bottom.
	Real Trump donated $30.
	Brian, on the plus side, you did have the talker working your flight and your plane ditched you wouldn't have to scramble to find a flotation device.
	I'm sure a pod of her friends would come save you.
	Oh my god.
	Wow.
	There we go.
	Oh, that super chat was heavy, bro.
	Yeah, it was brutal.
	Yeah, it was.
	Yeah, it was that.
	It was that.
	All right, guys, get your last little chatties in.
	Oh, we'll do the battle video really quick.
	Are you able to.
	Watch the bound video.
	This is what I want in a girl, you know.
	This is what talking about dating.
	Boom!
	Excuse me.
	Log Paladins donated $30.
	Damn it, Lol.
	She realized the dog woman was just crazy, but yet somehow can't look inward to her own delusions.
	Well, unless it's all just a grift, and it's just her version of that doesn't involve nudity.
	I fully support and believe in witchcraft.
	It is not a grift.
	But you fully supported and believed in star seeds.
	Yeah, I think witchcraft is a little bit different.
	It's not really that much different.
	It's very different.
	Juxtaposo 3 donated $29.99.
	Thank you, man.
	Question for the women in the panel: If all men in the world changed their preference today to never interacting with you again unless you became traditional/slash Christian, would you shout out Crucible?
	No, I would just continue dating women.
	No, this would go for whatever your sexual preference was.
	What?
	Oh.
	So, both men and women, I guess.
	A woman.
	So, okay, so a woman would want me to be traditional Christian.
	I guess whatever she's into.
	Yeah, I guess it's still do it for a woman, not a man.
	What about you?
	Log Paladins donated $30.
	I also fully believe in you get paid to tell people that you believe in witchcraft.
	One autist to another, stop the cap.
	It's also my religious belief.
	Well, more of a spiritual belief.
	I fully believe in witchcraft.
	Just because you don't believe in witchcraft doesn't mean I don't believe in witchcraft.
	And it's something that can't be proven nor disproven.
	Also, paganism is like very, very prevalent in our culture.
	Do you realize?
	Do you know why Christmas trees are a thing?
	Oh my god, who the hell cares?
	Okay.
	David Tuzekiak donated $30.
	Brian, my brain short circuit on roast options with you grooming Andrew.
	Please, witchy woman, give me a free love spell and a hex on in and out burger for Brian.
	Gosh.
	Not free.
	We can buy it on the bottom.
	Name attempt donated $100.
	Regarding girls who rate themselves 10 out of 10, perhaps rephrase the question.
	If you put your best-looking photo on the website hotornot.com, what score do you think the community would give you?
	That's a 20.
	Do you guys want to go around the table really quick on that?
	Probably like a 7 or 8.
	I like that framing.
	Okay.
	What's that?
	7.
	Um.
	Well, I think I'll stay with my six.
	I'd say six or seven.
	Sam, I'd say probably seven.
	How would I be rated?
	Like a two.
	If people are brutal on those websites, I'd go down like six.
	Yeah, go down.
	Probably six, seven.
	Word.
	Thank you, name.
	Oh, thank you, name taken.
	Appreciate it.
	And then we have.
	Log Paladins donated $30.
	Just give me $200 and I'll cast a spell for you.
	It's super different from Only Van's Grifters.
	Wait, so really quick, I want you guys, if you guys are down, not the panel, the viewers, you guys need to roast the shit out of this fucking House of the Dragon finale.
	Oh my.
	Anybody here watch House of the Dragon?
	They do, but I haven't seen the finales at all.
	Don't spoil.
	Don't spoil.
	I don't think me saying.
	I didn't realize it was the finale as I was watching this.
	You watched it?
	Yeah, because I was like.
	I knew it was the finale.
	I knew it was the finale because I've been keeping track of things.
	But yeah, only eight episodes season.
	First season was 10.
	I won't do any spoilers, but holy shit, that was so dog shit.
	What a dog shit filler season.
	House of the Dragon.
	What the fuck, HBO?
	You're gonna ruin.
	You already ruined your fucking most, the biggest fucking franchise since Star Wars.
	You ruined Game of Thrones, the biggest franchise since intellectual property, since Star Wars.
	You butchered it, and you're now going to, you redeemed yourself with season one, House of the Dragon.
	You're butchering this shit again.
	We have to wait two years for another two years.
	Really?
	Huh?
	Really, son?
	Really, Andrew?
	Really?
	It takes them two years to do a fucking season now?
	What happened to this?
	Back in the 90s, they would do 30-episode seasons of fucking Seinfeld Friends, all this shit.
	They'd put out two seasons in a year.
	We got to wait two years, two fucking, we got to wait two fucking years.
	We got to wait two fucking years.
	Call it.
	Paulie, come on.
	You gotta wait two fucking years for 10 fucking episodes?
	Are you fucking crazy?
	Game of Thrones, the first fucking six seasons.
	These fuckers, they put out the season, beautiful seasons, the best season, 10 episodes in a year.
	It's crazy.
	But he turned into fucking coffee tall for a little bit.
	These fucking paladins donated $30.
	House of the Dragons got one thing right.
	Don't die an old woman.
	Have your kids while you're young.
	Word.
	But god damn.
	Oh my god, this freaking guys roast the shit if you watch the season finale of House of the Dragon.
	Roast the fucking shit out of it, boys.
	Holy fuck.
	They had, they gave, they could have done, they could have done a battle.
	There could have been something.
	You've been building this shit up for the whole fucking season.
	You did nothing with it.
	It was a fucking filler episode.
	It was a good episode.
	It wasn't a good finale.
	It could have been a good episode eight for an episode ten finale.
	There are no episode ten, no episode, no episode nine, no episode ten.
	It's an eight episode fucking season.
	It's fucking bullshit.
	Let me tell you.
	Fucking bullshit.
	I'm very upset by this.
	How you doing, Andrew?
	You doing okay?
	He's doing great.
	Don't worry about it.
	So listen, listen, and this is what I got to tell you guys, okay?
	They introduced Andrew.
	I'm almost done with my Autistic Rant.
	Yeah, I'm almost done.
	So get this right.
	They spend 10 minutes on fucking Thailand.
	Thailand Lannister, this fucking guy.
	Thailand fucking Lannister.
	Who gives a fuck about Thailand?
	He's in fucking Tyrosha, some bullshit.
	It's fucking upsetting me.
	Very upsetting.
	Let me tell you this much.
	I'll tell you this much.
	And he, what, his fucking love prospect is some fucking trans YouTuber?
	What the fuck?
	John Vanik donated $30.
	It was so bad I went from generic conservative libertarian cringe-like yellow shirt to full-on culture war crucible-pilled.
	Brian, the fake Italian American accent is offensive.
	Fucking cancel.
	Oh!
	I don't like that kind of talk.
	Fucking Giovanni.
	I am Italian.
	I can do it.
	It's okay.
	So anyways.
	Oh, get this right.
	This is the fucking bullshit.
	10 minutes.
	10 fucking minutes they spend developing a fucking side quest for Thailand fucking Lannister.
	It's bullshit.
	Okay, I'll tell you why.
	I'll tell you why.
	Is this cringe?
	Is this cringe?
	Is the voice cringe?
	I don't know.
	Okay, fine.
	I'll go back to my normal speaking voice.
	Yeah, no, like 100%.
	They could have dedicated 10 minutes to like, and remove a few other things to actually putting a bit of action in the finale.
	Do a war.
	Do some sort of battle.
	But instead, we get Thailand, irrelevant Thailand side quest, flirting with like a veneer-having pirate woman, and they mud wrestled, bro.
	There was a mud wrestling scene.
	They could have put that budget towards an actual battle, but there was a fucking mud wrestling scene with, I'm not saying this to attack.
	It's like a woman, but it's like a trans man.
	What did that have to do with the mud?
	Okay.
	The whole scene you're describing is.
	I'm doing a lot of mental gymnastics just in the picture in my head.
	I'm just confused, like what?
	Like, I'm not, it's not.
	I'm just confused by the whole thing.
	You seem very passionate about this topic.
	I like, I'm a big Game of Thrones fan.
	I can see this.
	And I'm just confused.
	Very, very passionate.
	Okay, we're going to wrap this show.
	Sorry, I had to get it.
	It pissed me off, okay?
	I was upset.
	I needed to.
	You needed the ramp.
	You just needed a yes.
	I needed to get something off my chest, okay, guys?
	I was, it was a moment of vulnerability.
	I needed to get it off my chest.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	We're going to, let me do a quick Twitch raid and then we'll wrap the show.
	Who's streaming?
	We're not going to be able to pull it up.
	I'm just, those of you who are watching on Twitch, I'm going to raid Ampy.
	playing uh world of warcraft oh he's just like farming for hold on let me see if there's somebody else uh-huh Ah, fuck it off.
	I'll raid Ampy.
	Let's see here.
	Okay, we're all caught up on chats.
	Matthew Harder.
	Okay, Andrew, I'm going to throw the bear argument back at you.
	If you're stuck in the woods with a grizzly bear, giant hair, gay man, also called a bear.
	What would you choose?
	I'd still choose the gay man.
	Log Paladins donated $30.
	Really got to fill out the 8-hour runtime, don't you?
	Oh, I got to wrap them.
	I don't want to say that.
	I don't know.
	If I had to choose between two Predator, I don't know.
	Fuck.
	All right, guys, like the video on your way out.
	Follow us.
	I'm not able to pull it up, but twitch.tv slash whatever.
	If you're watching on Twitch, drop us a follow.
	If you're watching on YouTube, open up another tab.
	Twitch.tv slash whatever, drop us a follow.
	And then if you have a prime sub, see if it's ones available, if you can drop a prime sub.
	And then I think that's pretty much it, guys.
	GG, well played to the panel.
	Wait, final call to action.
	Can we get you to stop doing sex work?
	No.
	Okay, anyways, GG, well played to the panel.
	Last, can you scoot into frame?
	Last call, hit the like button, please, on your way out.
	Thank you for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you were here with me.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you to everyone who super chats, donate, supports the show.
	We will be live again tomorrow.
	We're doing a debate.
	Assuming they don't flake out like cowards, we're going to be doing a debate.
	Then we'll be back Sunday with our dating talk.
	Any girls who want to be on the show, DM out, whatever, on Instagram.
	If you can make it to Santa Barbara, 07's in the chat.
	07's in the chat.
	I hope you guys have a good night.
	Let me do the raid over there on Twitch.
	We're gonna raid Ampi.
	He's playing World of Warcraft classic.
	Thank you guys for watching on Twitch.
	Raid Scent, and then, oh, hold on.
	Sorry.
	Did not get sent.
	One sec, guys.
	Sorry.
	let me make sure he gets the rain here and then yeah that was everything Yep, everything.
	Okay.
	All right, and then, no, we're wrapping, boys.
	Okay.
	07's in the chat.
	I hope you guys have a very good night.
	Boldman Marine donated $30.
	Pot is okay.
	Still means nothing since gottending his dog shite.
	Arya kills the Night King, so what's the point of any Targaryen and the damn prophesy?
	It's salt on the wound.
	That is true.
	All those, well, I don't want to spoil anything from hot D, but.
	Fucking Game of Thrones.
	What it wet down?
	Okay.
	All right.
	07 in the chat, guys.
	I hope you guys have a good night, and we, sorry, I have to do this manually here.
	Where is it?
	Okay.
	07's in the chat, guys.
	I hope you guys have a really good night.
	And we'll see you tomorrow.

▲