Whatever Podcast - Toxic Man Hating 10/10 "Goddess" EXPLOITS Men?! (KICKED OFF) Andrew Wilson DESTROYS Misandrist?!

Aug. 5, 2024 - Whatever Podcast

07:07:34

Toxic Man Hating 10/10 "Goddess" EXPLOITS Men?! (KICKED OFF) Andrew Wilson DESTROYS Misandrist?! | Dating Talk #184

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	Welcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape.
	I'm your host, Brian Atlas.
	Thanks for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
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	We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California, every Sunday and Tuesday at 5 p.m. Pacific.
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	Also, if you live in Santa Barbara, we are looking to add to the whatever team.
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	Really the pressing issue of our time.
	Anyways, if you can't catch the full shows, we have a clips channel.
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	We have a backlog of some behind-the-scenes stuff we're going to post.
	Now, me and Andrew, it was two, three days ago, we did this kind of debate show with Cray Cray Desiree.
	And so we had to cut out when she did this during the actual live stream.
	The live stream is available, but she attacked us, mostly, I mean, mostly Andrew.
	It was a full-on assault.
	I bring out the best in people.
	Full-on just an onslaught.
	It was carnage.
	If you want to check it out, Patreon, or excuse me, discord.gg slash whatever.
	Also, if you want to learn how to become a master debater, if you want to learn how to think, debate, and craft arguments like Andrew Wilson over here, oh, is that not, do we not have a tab for it?
	Oh, okay.
	Go to debateuniversity.com.
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	80 plus videos, about six hours of instruction.
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	We also have a members-only group.
	Disclaimer, the views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever channel.
	With that said, without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves.
	So please tell us your name, age, location, and occupation.
	Go ahead.
	Hi, I'm Courtney.
	I'm 34 and I work at Emergency Animal Hospital.
	All right.
	And you're also a stand-up comedian, is that correct?
	I do stand-up.
	Okay, how long have you been doing stand-up for?
	Like five years.
	All right.
	And you said you're an emergency vet tech, is that?
	I'm not a vet tech.
	You work at the reception.
	Reception, okay.
	Gotcha.
	Okay.
	And where are you from originally?
	Toledo, Ohio.
	Okay.
	How long have you been in?
	How long have you been in Santa Barbara for?
	About three years or so.
	All right, cool.
	Welcome.
	Yeah.
	My name is Lucy.
	I'm 26.
	I'll be 27 in 16 days.
	And I live in Phoenix, Arizona.
	Currently, I'm a bartender, and then I do financial domination on the side.
	And you're from where again?
	Sorry.
	I'm originally from Wilmington, Delaware.
	Okay.
	And you do.
	What is financial domination?
	Yeah, FinDum?
	Yeah.
	It's basically power exchange through money.
	It's part of the BDSM community, so it's like a kink.
	And how do you find your clients?
	I have Twitter, I have loyal fans, Instagram.
	I don't really use Reddit.
	Loyal fans?
	Yeah, it's like OnlyFans, but different, yeah.
	So I'm still confused.
	What is it now?
	What do you do?
	So I basically play into certain kinks for men, and they give me money for it.
	Sometimes it's just the kink of financial domination, which they get off to give you a lot of money.
	And I'm still confused what financial domination itself is.
	What is that?
	I just said it's when men get off to giving me money.
	Oh, they get it.
	Okay.
	Oh, yeah.
	Gotcha.
	What is your Twitter username?
	Just curious.
	Lust for Lucia.
	L-U-C-H-I-A.
	L-U-C-I-A.
	Okay.
	I wouldn't bring it up though.
	There's some not safe for work content on there.
	Yeah, we're not going to follow that up.
	Okay, cool.
	Lust for Lucia.
	Okay.
	Yeah, Lucia.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	Hi, my name is Rihanna, and I'm 27 years old.
	I am from Thousand Oaks, California, about an hour away here from Santa Barbara.
	And I'm a poet, author, novelist, and business owner.
	Age?
	Sorry.
	27.
	27, okay.
	Sorry, your Twitter, it's with a F-O-R or for?
	For, like, the number.
	The number.
	Okay, yeah.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	Hi, I'm Enya.
	I'm 18 years old, and I'm from Austria.
	All right.
	What brings you to Santa Barbara?
	I make a language trip.
	Okay.
	You go to EF?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And how long are you in Santa Barbara for?
	Two days.
	I arrived for.
	How long would you be.
	So you arrived two days ago?
	Yes.
	And you'll be staying for how long?
	Two weeks.
	Oh, only two weeks?
	Yeah, only two weeks.
	Okay.
	And then you go back to Austria back and you're going to go to university?
	Just normal school.
	Okay.
	All right.
	What about you?
	Hi, my name is Natalie.
	I'm from Orange County, California.
	I'm 18, and I'm going to the University of Missouri for health sciences.
	All right, welcome.
	What about you?
	I'm Gracie.
	I'm 18 from Orange County, and I am a student at San Diego State University.
	Oh, what do you two study?
	What do you study?
	I'm studying kinesiology for pre-physical therapy.
	And I'm doing health sciences.
	Pre-professional.
	All right.
	Got it.
	What about you?
	Hi, my name is Kishwan.
	I'm from San Diego, okay?
	And I'm 30 years old.
	And right now, I'm actually a waitress at a high-end resort, but I also do personal training on the side.
	All right.
	Andrew?
	My name is Andrew Wilson, the host of The Crucible.
	It is to my knowledge the fastest growing debate channel anywhere on YouTube.
	I'm a political analyst, political satirist, and occasionally I like to engage in debates.
	All right, welcome everybody.
	So we're going to go around the table once more.
	We're going to get everybody's current relationship status.
	So are you single, talking stage, situationship, friends with benefits, relationship, married, polycule, sex cult, whatever it may be?
	If you're single, how long have you been single?
	And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in?
	Go ahead.
	I'm currently in a relationship.
	The longest relationship I've ever been in is probably close to seven years.
	Not the current one.
	The current one's like 10 months or so.
	All right.
	And orientation?
	I'm bi.
	Gotcha.
	And your current partner is a woman?
	Man.
	Man.
	Okay.
	And you said your longest was seven plus years.
	Okay.
	With a man or a woman?
	With a man.
	Got it.
	What about you?
	I am currently single, kind of in a few situationships, I guess.
	What was the other question?
	Longest relationship?
	A year.
	You said you're in a few situations.
	I actually just ended one, so I guess, yeah, one.
	Just one.
	Yeah.
	But you were.
	I just ended one this week.
	You had two.
	Yeah.
	What's the most amount of people you've been seeing in any given time?
	Maybe like three.
	Three?
	Okay.
	At like the same time, yeah.
	So your remaining situationship, how long have you been in that situationship?
	Like six months.
	Six months?
	What about the one that just ended?
	Like six months, yeah.
	Around the same time.
	Around the same time.
	And in the six-month period, have there been any other people kind of coming in, going, short-term?
	I had like a five-year-long situationship that I ended in like January, but it was very complicated.
	Complicated, how?
	He had substance abuse issues.
	You know, we were long distance.
	Things just didn't work out.
	I still have a lot of love for him, though.
	So long distance.
	So was it off again, on again?
	On again, off again?
	Yeah.
	And which one of you ended the situationship?
	I did.
	I blocked him.
	You did.
	Okay.
	Were you at any point considered, like, did you consider each other boyfriend, girlfriend?
	No, we never put like a true label on it, but we were pretty like emotionally invested in each other.
	Okay, so it wasn't monogamous?
	Again, we didn't put a label on it, so I mean, I don't know what he was doing behind the scenes, but he was a pretty decent person, I think, so I don't know.
	Well, isn't a situationship a label?
	I mean, yeah, it's a label, but like I don't think he would call it a situationship.
	Would he call you his girlfriend?
	No.
	So what would he call it then?
	I don't know.
	We were involved together.
	You guys were just seeing each other?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And you said that it was five years, but long distance.
	On and off, yeah.
	On and off.
	You said he was pretty good when I asked you about if it was monogamous.
	So was he loyal to you?
	Again.
	Is that kind of what you're doing?
	I don't know because I don't try to look too far into that, like unless we're actually dating.
	Like actually boyfriend, girlfriend.
	Were you monogamous with him?
	Yeah, I was really into him.
	I didn't know that.
	For the top five years?
	I mean, obviously it was on and off, so no.
	But when we were engaged with each other, yeah, we were.
	All right.
	And I had actually one question, kind of going back a little bit to your intro.
	You describe yourself in your Instagram as a devilicious alpha bimbo evil genius.
	Yes.
	What does that mean?
	I'm a little confused.
	I mean, it's kind of up for like viewer interpretation.
	Like, what do you think a devilicious, alpha bimbo, evil genius is?
	Like, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I think it's pretty strange.
	Well, let's start with devilicious.
	Do you consider yourself a diva?
	Yes.
	What makes you a diva?
	I don't know.
	I don't really, like, put up with anyone's bullshit.
	Like, I'm kind of, like, sassy, prissy, you know.
	And you said you're an alpha.
	I don't know if there's a difference between an alpha and alpha bimbo.
	There's also other, there's alpha bimbo, evil genius.
	A lot of descriptive words here.
	Yeah.
	Evil genius.
	So are you evil or are you an evil genius?
	Or both?
	Both.
	So what makes you evil, I suppose?
	The way you treat men?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So what are the evil ways in which you treat men?
	I mean, regarding like my financial domination and also femme dom, I guess you could call me evil because like I have them do pretty bad things to themselves, like hurt themselves.
	So you're talking like BDSM?
	Well, I mean, there's some component of consent there.
	There is consent, yeah, but you could call me evil.
	So you're a sadist?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Are you a sadist for your own pleasure or simply for the money?
	Kind of both.
	I mean, I definitely like think it's fun to watch someone hurt themselves for me.
	But like this is like men.
	Like I would never like want to do that to a woman.
	Why is that?
	Because I prefer women.
	Romantically or no, just like as people.
	Why is that?
	Because I think I'm a woman.
	I think I'm more aligned with female values.
	Which are what?
	Being feminine, divine femininity.
	I don't know.
	What is the?
	I'm sorry.
	I don't mean to ask you a million questions, but what is divine femininity?
	It's just basically being like a boss, like just believing in yourself and having competence and I don't know.
	Okay.
	And you also, well, okay.
	You describe yourself as alpha.
	Yes.
	What does that mean?
	I'm dominant, so I'm alpha in most situations.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And going to your Twitter, thank you for providing that.
	You call yourself a fatal seductress.
	What is that?
	I am pretty good at seducing men, and for some, it can be a very fatal attraction.
	Maybe not like fatal in the literal sense, but I mean fatal to their finances.
	Sure.
	Well, we'll get into that actually, but you said you're pretty good at seducing men.
	Yes.
	So isn't that just kind of the life of a woman?
	I mean, I don't think all women like try to seduce men.
	Well, but I mean like essentially you're saying I'm really good at getting men.
	But like isn't that just the default setting for women?
	I mean sure if like if that's how you look at it, yeah.
	But like that's like a woman who says she has game and she's able to sleep with a lot of men.
	It's like no shit.
	Any woman can sleep with a lot of men.
	There are femme femmes out there.
	I actually don't even believe that's a thing.
	I mean there's plenty of people that identify the femme communities.
	Well they identify people who identify as being dogs too.
	True, very true.
	I'm seeing them.
	Yeah, so the thing is when he says when he says femcell, so the opposition of incel.
	The male incel, the way that it's perceived is they want to have a relationship with women, but they're not capable of doing so.
	So they're trying to, but they're just not succeeding.
	They're striking out over and over and over and over and over.
	So when you say femcell, this would be the same exact thing applied to women.
	Yeah.
	But what Brian's saying is he doesn't think that there are women who, if they decided to go, for instance, and sleep with a whole grouping of various men, they're probably going to be able to do it if they chose to do it.
	Whereas if men choose to do it, they may not be able to.
	I think it's all just like it depends on standards, too.
	So, I mean, some people have high standards.
	That would be incel.
	Don't you have that?
	Because isn't inceled.
	Disregardless of their standards, like whatever.
	They just can't do it.
	They can't close the deal, as it were.
	Again, I mean, I think there's someone for everyone.
	So I don't know.
	It's kind of like good, pull it up.
	I'm so lonely.
	Right?
	I mean, that's what a femcell is, essentially.
	But I mean, if we look at the actual terminology, so incel involuntarily celibate, it's not clear to me if a woman just got on a dating app, even if she was remarkably unattractive, if she just made herself available for sex, she could get sex.
	It's not clear to me if that applies to like a remarkably unattractive man.
	If he makes himself available for sex, he's going to be able to get it.
	I can give you kind of an easy thought exercise for this.
	Let's say you take one of the most unattractive men that you've ever met and one of the most unattractive women you've ever met.
	You put a sign in their hand, and the sign just says, first car that pulls over, I'm sleeping with whoever's in it.
	Okay, that's the sign.
	The guy goes out with the sign versus the woman.
	Who gets stopped for first?
	I mean, again, it depends.
	Depends on a lot of factors.
	Okay, so but I gave you the scenario of the ones that are the most attractive, you know, so we have that factor, right?
	We have the factor of it's going to be an equal amount of men probably to women passing them, or even more men than women.
	They're holding the sign, so we know what the scenario is.
	Inside of the scenario, who's going to pull off for which sex more?
	I guess women.
	Yeah, women.
	So that's the idea behind why Brian's saying being a femcell likely isn't anything other than a standards issue versus I actually maybe have no standards and still can't close the deal, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I think there's outliers in every situation.
	I agree.
	Look, I agree.
	I'm just saying that even if we take the outliers, I think that the outlier females would still be able to get some outlier dude to sleep with them, but that might not be the case in the opposite direction.
	And then a follow-up question on that, and this might not be the way you move, but if you were inclined, like you made a decision, you woke up, you're like, you're in a brand new city, don't know anybody.
	If you're in a brand new city, but you're like, I want to sleep with somebody tonight, how like certain do you think you could pull it off?
	100% certain I could.
	I mean, that's not like that.
	Like, even good-looking men can't wake up and be like, I'm going to fuck a new girl today with certainty.
	They don't, even good-looking guys can't.
	Like, they could maybe have 50-50, who knows?
	No guy, maybe some guys, very few men.
	Even good-looking men can't definitively say, I'm going to go out and I'm 100% closing tonight.
	Almost most women, if they were inclined to, could.
	Fair enough.
	Anyways, you said when it comes to the fatal attraction, fatal seduction, you're fatal for their bank accounts.
	Have you bankrupted any men?
	Not yet, but I do have one that he's teetering on a very bad plane right now.
	He's not doing very well.
	He's financially supporting you.
	Not supporting me.
	I mean, I have a bartend, so this is like supplemental income.
	But he's teetering, and that's part of his financial insecurity is part of the kink or whatever.
	Yeah, but I mean, if you're like, I don't know, true to the practice, then you're not really going to want to truly bankrupt someone.
	And again, I mean, this is all consensual.
	So like he has the freedom to close his laptop or block me or whatever if he really wants to.
	Okay.
	Do you associate a person who would be willing to bankrupt themselves to be mentally ill?
	I mean, possibly, but again.
	So like, aren't you kind of playing with mentally ill people?
	I mean, we go over like, you know, consent.
	Only a mentally ill person consent.
	I mean, I'm not here screening them for mental illness.
	I'm not a psychiatrist.
	I'm not a psychologist.
	Do you need to screen a person for mental illness if they want you to bankrupt them?
	Doesn't that scream not well?
	I mean, it's a kink.
	Yeah, I get it's a kink, but you can understand that even through a person's perceived kinks, that would maybe be a good sign of mental illness.
	It could be, but that's really not my place to judge, you know?
	Well, I think it is your place to judge.
	If you're the one who says, send me the money on behalf of your kink, and this could bankrupt you, who the hell else would be the judger here?
	Who else could make the judgment but you?
	I mean, if they have voiced that opinion to me, maybe, and if we have like a good relationship, but again, like some of these guys will approach you and then just fuck off for like months, years.
	sometimes they'll never come back so it's like yeah no i understand that but i'm talking about this specific case Got a guy who's teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
	I mean, I don't force him to send me any money.
	I understand you're not forcing him to.
	But what I'm asking you is, if you have somebody who has the perception, at least a perception of mental illness, and you allow them to do thing X on your behalf knowing that they're mentally ill, how are you not responsible for that?
	Well, I mean, then we'll have a conversation about that.
	But he has never come forth and said, I'm mentally ill.
	Again, it's a kink.
	So.
	Yeah, but I mean, if you want to teeter on the edge of bankruptcy on purpose because it makes you fucking get off, right?
	Wouldn't that be a sign to a normal person that that person's not well upstairs?
	It could be.
	Just not to you?
	I mean, again, like, it's really not like my responsibility to be monitoring someone's mental health.
	Again, if they bring it up to me and if they tell me that, you know, this is enough, like, I've had enough, cool.
	Like, you know what I mean?
	But I'm not going to sit there and baby them.
	Like, this is a kink, a consensual kink.
	We're both adults.
	And if he's meant, I mean, I'm pretty sure a lot of people in the BDSM community would qualify for mental illness.
	You know what I mean?
	So there was a guy, let's say he was 55 years old.
	There was a woman who was 19, and she had a lower IQ.
	But she was considered an adult and functional member of society.
	And he was online, and they're both adults, and she was consenting, and he was having sex with her.
	Would you find that to be an appropriate relationship?
	I mean, I think 19 is pretty young, and I really don't like engaging with anyone under 21 in terms of that anyway.
	I mean, repeat the question again.
	Do you think that if she's kind of under average IQ, but she's still a functional member of society, she's still an adult, she's still consenting, right?
	She can consent to a car loan, she can consent to a cell phone bill, right?
	Do you have any issues with this guy taking advantage of her for sex?
	I mean, I think it's fucked up if you're 55 years old.
	Try, but that's his kink.
	He likes to take advantage of 21-year-old girls and have sex, but he likes it.
	It gets him off.
	It's his favorite.
	That's what's the problem?
	Oh, it is.
	What's different?
	I mean, you just said that she has a lower IQ.
	So, I mean.
	Do you think I think that this guy who sends you enough money to bankrupt himself has a high IQ?
	I mean, he has a good job.
	So, the point is, though, is that she's still a consenting adult.
	It's not his responsibility to worry about her IQ, right?
	I mean, I guess you make a fair point.
	Again, I don't really care.
	But in that case, do you think he should care?
	Sure.
	If he wants to care, then care.
	Do you think that that's a double standard?
	I mean, I've talked to him for six months now, more than that, longer than that.
	And we've had, you know, personal conversations.
	We've had kink-based conversations.
	And when he tells me he doesn't have money to send, I don't make him send it.
	So, and he'll send me like a small amount or something for coffee.
	So imagine this going back the other direction of, yeah, he's 50, and she's a little bit low IQ, but she's a consenting adult.
	It's not for him to worry about whether or not she's under IQ or not, because she can consent, right?
	She can consent.
	And so, you know, the thing is, is he just doesn't really worry about what might happen to her as a position of him sleeping with this woman who is 21 while he's 50 or 19 while he's 50 and who has a lower than average IQ.
	He just shouldn't worry about it because she can consent.
	Does that sound reasonable to you?
	I mean, it's a different situation.
	Again, you have a baseline conversation when you accept the submissive into your life.
	You go over terms and conditions.
	He did that.
	He's like, look, I don't give a shit about your IQ.
	I just want to have sex with you.
	And she's like, okay.
	Jai Bannock donated $200.
	Not sure if Red Head's too stupid to understand the depth of her evil or she doesn't just like it.
	I encourage viewers to pray for her, but more importantly, her victims, as she's a literal predator.
	Yeah, so let's go through the.
	So they agree to this.
	They've agreed.
	They're both consenting.
	Sorry, guys.
	One sec.
	We're letting the TTS come through.
	John Slater, 1990, donated $200.
	Hey, Brian, just wanted to drop you some support.
	You get a lot of hate, but you're a good guy and one of the few who advocate for men.
	Oh, thank you.
	Cheers to you.
	John Slater, thing for the TTS, man.
	Also, Giovanni, thing for the TTS?
	Yeah, a lot of stuff goes on behind the scenes that we don't really talk about.
	But thank you, John Slater.
	Really appreciate your support.
	Thank you, man.
	Go ahead, Andrew.
	Anyway, yeah, so they both consent.
	So that part, they had the conversation.
	They're both consenting.
	She is an adult.
	She is a functional member of society.
	She's just kind of dumb.
	Okay, I mean.
	Not his responsibility, right?
	Don't dumb people need sex too, though.
	Okay, fair.
	No responsibility, right?
	Mentally ill people need to get some.
	I mean, again, I'm a financial dominant drag, so obviously I have some responsibility in it.
	But again, I'm not sitting there forcing them.
	I'm not.
	Neither is he in this case.
	I'm not approaching them.
	Like they approach me.
	So imagine a guy saying this exact same thing.
	But he's a man.
	I didn't force her.
	I'm not telling her she has to.
	I'm not doing any of that.
	She's consensually at 21 with her low IQ sleeping with me.
	What's the problem here?
	He's a man taking advantage and he's 55.
	And he has.
	He's taking advantage.
	Are you taking advantage?
	I mean, sure, you could look at it like that.
	So then I don't see how you can make the moral equivalent say he's doing something wrong if you would not accept that you yourself also are doing something wrong.
	Do you think she accepts that she's doing something wrong?
	I want to hear from her.
	Oh, okay.
	Sure, I accept that I'm doing something wrong.
	Okay.
	But she doesn't care.
	Yeah, doesn't care.
	Well, I can't be quotes.
	If you actually do think that, then it's not wrong.
	It would just be wrong, right?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	I have a question.
	Do you like continue the relationships if they're not paying?
	I mean, like, you're saying it's not force, you're not forcing them to pay.
	No, do you continue talking to them if they're not paying?
	I mean, if they've sent a good amount, like they're my submissive and I've taken them on as that, then sure, I'll talk to them.
	All right.
	Do you think society?
	What do you think society would say to a guy who was openly having a relationship like that with a 21-year-old dude?
	How do you think they would judge him?
	Just society in general?
	They would tar and feather him.
	I don't know.
	I mean, honestly, what do you think they would do?
	I think a big factor to consider in the hypothetical situation is the age gap.
	Because, like, what's the age gap between you and this guy?
	He's like 47, and I'm 26.
	Okay.
	That's something to consider.
	Still a massive age gap.
	But the question still, I'm just asking, what do you think the perception would be?
	I already said it would be a bad perception.
	It would be a bad perception.
	Why do you think it would be that way?
	Because men have a bad reputation for a good reason.
	What's, well, I mean, I literally have not heard yet a man, not once yet, tell me that they have teetered women on the brink of financial ruin and they don't give a shit.
	I have not heard that one time.
	But I have heard this story that you're telling me dozens of times on this show.
	Yeah, I think you're omitting the fact, though, that, again, it's a kink and I'm being approached and this is what I do.
	Yeah, but in that case, it would just be a kink.
	There's plenty of kinks out there that people would view as taboo and wrong, and people still do them anyway.
	Yeah, I know, but that doesn't mean that they're correct.
	So this idea of saying, well, it doesn't matter because it's a kink, though.
	What is correct?
	Well, if we apply that to them.
	I mean, I think correct is a very subjective word.
	Do you think that morality itself is subjective?
	I mean, yeah.
	Well, then if morality itself is subjective, then why would you ever get mad about what anybody ever does at any time, at any place, anywhere?
	Sure.
	Like a serial killer.
	What's wrong with that?
	Subjective.
	Subjective.
	I mean, you're reaching right now.
	Is it subjective or objective?
	I mean, a serial killer.
	I mean, yeah, serial killers.
	It's subjective or objective.
	If it's all subjective and it's all just moral relativism, then you could never make a judgment, a value judgment, on a serial killer being bad because that's just relative, right?
	Sure.
	So then, yeah, I don't really know this idea of it's subjective.
	It doesn't mean much to me.
	That just means you're saying that there is no standard for morality at all when clearly you don't think that.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Otherwise, you wouldn't say, you'd say it's okay to be a serial killer, right?
	I mean, I think we all know the answer to that.
	It's not okay to be a serial killer.
	Why not?
	If it's just subjective.
	Because it's morally wrong.
	And these are my morals.
	Everyone has different values.
	So, if it's just your morals versus their morals or subjective, then from his standard, the serial killer, they're not doing anything wrong, right?
	Well, he's a serial killer.
	Obviously, he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong.
	He's doing it.
	So, you can't, you have no standard from which to say he's doing anything immoral, right?
	I'm not negative underscore $200, donated $200.
	Yellow top kind of looks like a Scargian.
	Look it up.
	Like a what?
	I don't know what that is.
	Tell me more.
	Okay, all right.
	I'm not sure what that is.
	Is that like a Star Wars thing or something?
	I don't know.
	Yeah, I'd love to respond to you.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	A couple other clarifying things here, but I do want to get everybody's relationship status.
	You do describe yourself as evil on your Link Tree.
	No, that can't be true.
	Subjective.
	Subjective.
	You also referred to yourself as Empress Lucia.
	Lucia.
	Lucia.
	And goddess Lucia.
	So can you explain the Empress and the Goddess part?
	I mean, it's a title.
	Also, Princess.
	Also, Princess.
	Princess.
	Sam Dom Princess.
	Yes.
	It's just an honorific that everyone in the community uses.
	They pick which one they like.
	I started out as goddess.
	I decided I wanted to change it up, make it empress.
	I liked the sound of it, and that's about it.
	But do you consider yourself like a goddess, just generally speaking?
	Sure, yeah.
	Okay.
	And then also on your Twitter, it says, I heart exploiting your desires and reveling in your tears.
	Yes.
	Just like an essay on how to write I'm an awful human being.
	Sure, if that's everything that's stated.
	But it's a kink.
	Can I ask a question?
	Do you enjoy the money aspect of it or do you genuinely enjoy what you do?
	I enjoy the money aspect of it.
	And I think it's funny.
	Like I think it's fun.
	I have a great time doing it.
	I mean, all my friends get a good laugh out of it.
	I get a good laugh out of it.
	And there's days where I'm having a bad day and my sub just wants to punch himself in the balls.
	So you enjoy watching that though.
	It's funny, yeah.
	When you say you get a laugh out of it, what do you mean?
	Like when they do.
	When you laugh at them?
	When they do humiliation stuff.
	Yeah, it's funny.
	And they encourage me to laugh at them.
	They love my laugh.
	Okay.
	Well, we can come back to some of that stuff.
	Yeah, let's get to the other girls.
	I don't want to take up all this time.
	What's your relationship status?
	My relationship status is single.
	I've been single for a little over a month.
	And my longest relationship, I've had a few that were like right around a year.
	Okay.
	And you said you've been single for about a month?
	Yes.
	Who ended it?
	I did.
	Why?
	He yelled at me in a store.
	We had been dating for a few months.
	And that was like the, I think there was a couple red flags, actually, that I was kind of letting go.
	And then at that point, I was like, I don't deserve this kind of treatment.
	So I was just like, I think we should go our separate ways.
	And how long had you guys been together?
	Just like three and a half months.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And he yelled at you in the store.
	Yeah.
	What happened?
	So we were going on a camping trip to Grand Teton National Park.
	We were running a half marathon.
	So we were like splitting the cost of everything, you know, like, oh, I'll buy this gas, you buy that gas.
	Like, let's split the groceries.
	And he had lost his job.
	And then I was like tight on money, but I'm also tight on money as a business owner.
	And so money, I think, was a stressor.
	And then he had owed me money from whatever the last transaction was.
	And so then he was like, oh, I just want to make sure that you're going to spend exactly $12, including tax, not excluding tax.
	And I was like, penny pinching me.
	And then it annoyed me because I was just like, well, if we've been on this whole trip and not paying attention to cents and dollars, why are you doing this?
	I was like, if money is that big of an issue, we should have just bought our own separate things.
	And then we got to the checkout line and he was like doing two orders.
	So I was just confused.
	I was like, wait, why are you doing two different orders?
	And then he was just like, oh, you are so unhealthy.
	I can't believe how unhealthy you are.
	And there was this little seven-year-old behind us.
	And I was like, this is really embarrassing.
	You don't even know me well enough to yell at me.
	Unhealthy?
	Yeah, that's what he yelled.
	The fuck does that mean, unhealthy?
	I don't know, but I took it as a sign that he was unhealthy because if he's yelling at me like that.
	Sounds like some fucking liberal shit.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Oh, sorry.
	Yeah.
	So then, yeah, it was like embarrassing and awkward.
	And I was just like, I just got out of a relationship with, like, not just, but my last relationship, it was like very reminiscent of what I was in when I was 25.
	And so then I was like, oh, I'm just, thank you.
	So, yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	What about you?
	Right now I'm single, like for six months.
	Six months?
	Yeah.
	And my longest relationship was one and a half years, I guess.
	Okay.
	Have you met any guys here in Santa Barbara?
	Any?
	Not yet, because I arrived two days ago.
	Still now?
	Yeah.
	And you're only here for two weeks.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So.
	And then you're going back to Europe or are you staying in California for a bit?
	Back to Europe.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	What about you?
	I'm single and I haven't been in an actual relationship, really.
	I mean, like two days, but I don't really count that.
	So, but you have maybe had short-term.
	Talking stages.
	Yeah, short-term.
	So what's the longest period of time that you've had anything with a guy?
	Like you met him, and then you guys were hooking up or whatever it was, then you stopped talking.
	Probably like four or five months.
	Four to five months, okay.
	I think.
	And would you call that friends with benefit situationship?
	Not even situationship, just like no, like really like, I don't know, talking.
	It's a talking stage of a situation.
	Talking stage.
	Yeah, sure.
	Situationship.
	Situation ship.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And what about you?
	I'm single, have been for about eight months, and my longest relationship was six months.
	All right.
	Six months.
	And the six-month one, is that the one that ended eight months ago?
	Yes.
	Who ended it?
	It's kind of confusing because I initiated it maybe like three months in, and then we had a discussion.
	It happened on New Year's Eve, and it just, it ended amicably at first, and then just kind of like blew up after that.
	But it was, it ended fine.
	We just no longer speak.
	Something blew up?
	Yeah, I. What was the blow-up?
	Out of respect for him, I don't really want to go into details of it because it does have to do with his own mental health that I thought that I understood.
	And it definitely put a damper on our entire relationship.
	But in the very last moments of it, it just definitely ended it.
	What about you?
	So I'm currently single.
	I've been single for four years.
	I've been celibate for two and a half.
	And I am dating on and off.
	My longest relationship was a year and a half.
	And you said you've been celibate for 2.5 years.
	Mm-hmm.
	Okay.
	Mm-hmm.
	Congratulations.
	Okay.
	Was that a faith-based or personal decision for some other reason?
	It was start off personal.
	Because I would say that a lot of people define celibacy differently.
	Like a lot of people will say that they don't even want to masturbate, things like that.
	I just did it because I just don't see a point of a guy touching on my body in a sexual way if we're not together.
	I personally, I just don't see a point in that.
	Like what am I really getting out of that?
	So you're not waiting necessarily for marriage, but for a committed relationship.
	It has to be a commitment, a committed relationship.
	It doesn't have to necessarily be marriage.
	I don't even think I could wait that long.
	Like if I'm attracted to the guy and we're actually he met my parents and everything, I don't think I could wait that long.
	I don't think you should.
	Well, it depends.
	It depends.
	I'm saying that now, but who knows?
	I might want to decide to wait till marriage, but it depends.
	But I'm definitely, I'm not doing anything.
	Okay.
	Outside of a committed relationship.
	Yeah, nope.
	Okay.
	I don't see a point.
	All right.
	We're going to get into some of the pre-show notes here.
	So I think actually before that, I know some of you may not have watched the show prior to your appearance, but for those of you who have, any disagreements from anybody?
	Maybe you've seen the show, maybe you've seen clips.
	Why don't we start there if you have any disagreements?
	Oh, I love that.
	With the show itself or something?
	With you?
	Either something I've said, something Andrew said.
	Or the show, the show's format, anything in regards to it.
	Any criticisms, anything?
	With this podcast in particular, no.
	I agree.
	No.
	Not that I've seen.
	I mean, and I've watched a lot of your videos.
	Are you surprised, by the way?
	No, I've seemed to be able to do it.
	She said this podcast in particular, which makes me think other podcasts of its type, she'd have criticisms for it.
	Yes, of course.
	I don't agree with that.
	There's so many.
	Yeah, there's a lot.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Let me see where we can start off then.
	Actually, there's a, maybe we'll just go to this.
	We have a news article from the New York Times.
	Nick, if you could pull that up.
	The dating woes of Ukrainian women.
	War shatters the dating scene for women in Ukraine.
	While the pursuit of love might seem secondary to dealing with the horrors and privations of the war, many Ukrainians say they need romantic relationships to help them cope.
	Nick, can you scroll down a little bit?
	All right.
	There's some woman smokes ahookah at Forsage Nightclub in Kiev last month.
	Many women in Ukraine say they have a difficult time meeting men now because of the war.
	Men at war, women most affected, of course.
	For the past two and a half years, Katarina, blah, blah, blah, wanted to meet someone special, but war always gets in the way.
	How is this not, this must be ironic?
	There's no way that, okay.
	She met a soldier.
	I don't think it is.
	But then he, she met a soldier, but then he was sent to the front.
	She traded text messages with another man, but those fizzled out.
	Because he was in no mood to meet, fearing he might soon be drafted on the dating app, Bumble.
	She liked the looks of a hipster, but when she scrolled through his photographs, she noticed his amputated leg.
	I looked at his profile for 15 minutes and I felt so sorry for him.
	Miss Barakna, 35, a marketing director for a clothing brand in Kiev, can you scroll down?
	Said in an interview, she wondered if she could handle a relationship with a maimed war veteran.
	Yeah.
	Tough.
	What?
	That's hard for her.
	Then she swipes left, removing him from potential matches.
	I feel I'm not ready for that.
	Scroll down.
	Russia's full-scale invasion has upended nearly every facet of daily life in Ukraine.
	Okay, scroll down.
	Is there more people?
	Scroll down, scroll down.
	Okay, well, whatever.
	I think we get the gist of it.
	So what are your guys's reaction to that?
	Is it hard there for the Ukrainian women?
	Do you feel for the Ukrainian women that they're struggling to date because of the war?
	Don't you have like vigor issues?
	Yeah, I was just about to say, to be quite honest, I can care less about what's going on.
	This might sound bad, but in other countries, if we're not where we need to be out here in the U.S., I really don't care what's going on with anyone else.
	Sorry.
	Well, not really the question, but even with dating, I honestly don't care about what their dating life is going on out there in Ukraine or Russia.
	I don't care.
	But you could assume, I guess the point of him reading the article is, because I agree with you, but you can assume that if there was a war or the United States had a draft, that women could be set in the same situation that they are in the Ukraine.
	So if we were to kind of take this and hypothetically map it on to the United States, then Brian's saying, should we really feel all that bad for the women who are suffering privation from the fact that their men are off fighting a war mostly on their behalf?
	I think that's what you're getting across here, right?
	A little bit.
	He should have just done a shot from the waist up and catfished, I feel like.
	If the women, if that's like any representation of how the women are going to be, I don't know.
	Just spring the amputated leg.
	Right, yeah.
	I mean, there's worse things that have happened with a catfish.
	Why not?
	You know?
	Yeah, well, what she could do is she could show up with a cane and then just say like you have a war wound, right?
	Yeah.
	And so that's why you kind of walk this way.
	You don't have to actually tell them what the wound is.
	That's what you're saying.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you don't have to do that.
	And at dinner, you just take a leg off.
	I mean, hey.
	It would make for an interesting and memorable date, that's for sure.
	But no, I don't feel bad for women for being horny and not getting it.
	Because at the end of the day, it's the men that are really struggling.
	What is she?
	She just doesn't have anyone by her side.
	Big whoop.
	These guys are literally dying.
	She has to pay for her own meal, okay?
	Oh, my gosh.
	You know what's more risky than starting a relationship with a soldier?
	Being a soldier?
	Being a soldier?
	He's worse, but she is.
	These poor women can't get laid because men are dying on the front.
	Damn.
	So hard.
	It's hard out there for Ukraine women.
	Hard out there.
	Anyways, I just thought that was, I saw that today.
	Thought it was interesting.
	Yeah, men being forced to become meat shields.
	Dying in Ukraine.
	Dating scene for women must affect.
	Okay, let me read these chats.
	Actually, who wants to be our dedicated?
	Maybe I'll have you be our dedicated reader.
	So you just read?
	Sure.
	If you can read this.
	SS, thank you for the, I believe this is a Turkish currency.
	Thank you for the 3,400 Turkish currency.
	It's called Turkish Lira, I think it's called.
	I think that's what it is.
	Go ahead if you want to read it.
	Here to support the show mostly.
	In addition, raising three daughters right now.
	And it's damn hard with so many skanky internet influencers and bullshit information spreading around.
	Missed the times when we would go to our parents for the truth.
	Salaam from Turkey.
	Hey, thank you, man.
	Appreciate you watching all the way from Turkey, man.
	Thank you, thank you.
	Then we have another one from Order 55.
	Also, congrats on the three daughters.
	Yeah.
	I bet Red would try to swindle elderly people in a hospice if it meant her getting a payday.
	You're sick.
	Go ahead, roll your eyes and keep justifying your evil.
	Again, it's a kink.
	Do we say evil kink?
	I'm not even going to lie.
	I'm watching guys punch their balls and you're just like, whoa.
	Like, I think that's.
	Oh, I don't say whoa.
	I just laugh.
	I know, but that's not worse.
	I'm slow laughing.
	Wait, you just what?
	I don't say whoa.
	I just laugh.
	Okay.
	And then also, guys, just a reminder, I know you're sending some of these in via soup chat, so appreciate it.
	We do recommend doing it via Streamlabs.
	That way, YouTube doesn't take their brutal 30% cut, but thank you, guys.
	Really appreciate it.
	Guys, like the video if you're enjoying the show so far.
	Now, I do want to get into some of the pre-show notes here.
	So, let's see.
	We have why don't we start with Natalie?
	Yes.
	So, you're 6'1.
	Yeah.
	And you said you recently lost almost 70 pounds on a similar drug to Ozempic.
	Yeah.
	Oh, Ozempic.
	And you'd love to talk about your experience with how you were treated with men before and after the weight loss, the 70 pounds.
	So yeah, why don't you tell us about that?
	I'd like to clarify first.
	It's like Ozempic.
	It's a GLB 1 and 2, but it's for insulin resistance and PCOS, so not just for weight loss.
	But it makes you lose your appetite.
	Yeah, no, I mean, I'm on the lowest dosage, so 2.5 milligrams, which is like the starting dose.
	It doesn't really like I eat very normally.
	So yeah, not really.
	Yeah, but if you're eating above what normally would be and you take that drug, does it put your appetite down to what you would now consider normal to be?
	I was eating normally before, too.
	Okay.
	So it wasn't like, I didn't take it to lose weight.
	I took it for the PCOS and insulin resistance.
	Okay.
	Gotcha.
	What was the question?
	Sorry.
	You're before and after.
	You didn't really eat it.
	Or before and after.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	I mean, before, I feel like a lot of it was a lot of male attention that I would get was more from like kind of like in a gross like way.
	Like more, I feel like it was easier to be sexualized when I was bigger than now, which is something I find like surprising.
	I think now the like quality of guys is a lot better.
	I would say you were sexualized more when you were heavier?
	Yes.
	Like because usually the people that it would attract were more like were what?
	Well were they?
	Older and grosser?
	Older and grosser.
	I think the audience knows what I'm saying.
	Okay.
	I'm sorry.
	They weren't buff chiseled Chads.
	No, they were not.
	Yeah.
	I mean if you had the buff chiseled Chad who approaches you versus this the other type of guy who approached you, even if they had the same line, wouldn't one just still appear to be icky from your perspective versus the other one?
	Both would be icky.
	It depends what they pull, like what they're trying.
	What do they say?
	I don't know.
	Just like something gross, pretty or something like that or beautiful or whatever the fuck it is they say.
	I don't know what the fuck they say.
	I mean, sure, thank you.
	If it's something gross, then it's just as weird from both sides, I feel like.
	So did just the more unattractive guys just have worse pickup lines?
	No, I'm not saying that at all.
	What I was saying is before when I was like overweight, it just seemed that majority of the guys that came up to me were more like coming straight off of from like a sexual value and that was it, like not from like getting to know me kind of perspective.
	And I don't know if that's a difference from me being more confident now in how I hold myself or if that's from actual appearance base-wise.
	Not because one subset of those guys just kind of gives you the ick and the other one doesn't.
	Well, no, because it can be.
	You don't think that plays into it at all?
	Well, like, I feel like, I mean, a lot of what I could say is that the guys even say it's like, what did you say, chiseled Chad?
	If they give me this, like, a gross pickup line, I'm still going to think it's gross.
	Yeah, right.
	But what I don't understand is I wouldn't think that there would be a variant in like a more unattractive guy versus a more overly attractive guy in the way that they would approach a woman.
	What would be the variant there exactly?
	And the way that they like what makes one creepy over the other one?
	What they say.
	What they say.
	Yeah, well, what would they say?
	I don't know.
	I've gotten a lot that's more based off height.
	Like, can I climb that tree?
	Like, I think that one's gross.
	I don't like that one.
	I think more so what she's referring to is the quality of a relationship that a guy is looking for when they approach her.
	And having seen it personally from other people in my life, I think that it boils down to guys seeing particularly older girls physically as not relationship material or not taking them as seriously as smaller women.
	Yeah, she articulated that way very well.
	Yeah.
	Is there anything actually wrong with that though?
	Not necessarily.
	It's just not what I was looking for now or then.
	So, yeah.
	I mean, it makes sense.
	You got more attractive, right?
	You got better treatment from the opposite sex.
	I think just, yeah, better treatment from society in general, too.
	I think people are a lot nicer to you after you've lost weight.
	But yeah.
	That's just my personal experience.
	I mean, it could be different for everybody.
	No, it's true.
	Yeah.
	Because let's be real.
	A lot of the times when we look at someone that's physically fit, we're like, oh, wow, they look great.
	I wonder what they did to get to that, to get to that, to how they look.
	They look fantastic.
	When you look at someone that's overweight, you're like, ugh.
	I mean, a lot of times when we look at someone that's overweight, we don't look at them like, wow, they look great.
	We just don't.
	A lot of people will say they look great, but you wouldn't want to look like that person.
	You know, you wouldn't.
	It's just what it is.
	No, I 100%.
	Agree.
	It's just like a nice lie, basically, is what you're saying.
	Yeah, it's just a nice lie.
	And it's just like, I mean, unless they ask you for your opinion, you don't have to say anything about how they look physically, but if they ask you for your opinion, I mean, you can be honest.
	And I don't think that's inherently a bad thing.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I had a guy tell me to shave my arms once.
	Oh, no, I saw that.
	It's probably.
	Did you?
	Did you?
	Yeah.
	Did I shave my arms?
	I did not.
	No.
	He wanted me to show him my stomach, too, which was also weird.
	Is this on stream or in person?
	Kill of Cereal.
	I can't say I don't want to ask.
	I only get one per panel.
	What is your most embarrassing moment on.
	Sorry, let me get that pulled back up here real quick.
	What is your most embarrassing moment on the data romantic encounter or describe your ideal perfect man in detail?
	Brian, you can pick.
	I think I'll go with the second one.
	So describe your ideal perfect man in detail, but also try not to try to keep it relatively brief if you can.
	Go ahead.
	Just describe your ideal man.
	Yeah, by the way, do you have heterochromia?
	I do.
	Yeah.
	Partial, though, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	You didn't use your lesbian joke.
	I know.
	Yeah.
	You're right.
	I shut up.
	People ask me if I've heterochromia.
	I'm just like, no, I'm bisexual.
	I like it.
	It's good.
	Thank you.
	My ideal man.
	I guess I would have to describe my boyfriend, right?
	Isn't that what I should do?
	So I like a bald guy, 5'9, blue eyes.
	Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm with a really great guy.
	That's what he looks like.
	He's really supportive.
	And are we describing physical features?
	Or maybe a couple physical personality traits.
	He's a musician, which is cool to be with someone also in a creative area.
	I sing, it's kind of how we met through musical comedy.
	But yeah, he's got a great work ethic, very honest, someone who stands by his values and lives up to them.
	Yeah, and I think we have a very healthy relationship where we support each other but don't have to be like attached at the hip.
	We have our separate time.
	We're good communicators.
	I feel like he's very honest.
	I feel like I lucked out.
	So.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Cool.
	What about you?
	Tall, usually not blonde or ginger.
	I know, ironic, right?
	Makes a good amount of money.
	No mommy issues.
	Let's see.
	Usually, I mean, like creative, but I would rather not date like an artist or anything like that just because I find that the artists that I have dated in the past are not generally good people.
	I've had that same experience.
	Yeah, so someone more, I think, pragmatic, maybe in the business world, like something like that.
	When you said bald.
	Yeah.
	He's bald.
	Yeah, I get that you're describing him.
	But that's not your, I mean, ideally, if you're thinking of your ideal man, baldness wouldn't be a deal breaker.
	Like, you wouldn't be like.
	Sure.
	Well, I'm not going to date you because you just have way too nice a hair, right?
	Like, that wouldn't happen.
	I suppose I'm not specifically looking for a bald guy.
	He just so happens to be bald.
	But I like it.
	I like a smooth head.
	Feels good.
	Freshly shaved.
	Yeah, sure.
	Sure, if he had hair, that'd be great.
	I just didn't think it would be a deal breaker for some reason.
	No.
	But to have hair?
	Yeah, to have hair.
	It's like, I need a bald hair.
	I hate people with hair because I'm completely bald.
	They know their wax is on a personal level.
	I like going out into nature a lot, so I would prefer to be with someone who likes a more outdoorsy lifestyle, hiking, backpacking, camping.
	As I mentioned earlier, I write books, so someone who also can have deep intellectual conversations with me, maybe read my books, be one of the early readers of my books, someone who is artsy.
	You guys are just saying, like, no arts, like, oh, arts, creativity, dancing.
	I'm learning Spanish as a second language, so maybe someone who speaks Spanish.
	I do tend to like Latino men, so someone I can speak Spanish with and learn with.
	Yeah.
	I don't think I could say any like necessary physical features.
	I've dated a lot of men from a lot of different backgrounds, but I do tend to really like Latino men usually.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Like prunette hair.
	Tall, of course, and brown or blue eyes.
	And he also has the same humor as me because we have to talk and the character is also the same.
	Has to be the same.
	Preferably taller than me.
	I'm 6'1.
	So brown hair.
	That limits your options right away.
	I know, I know.
	It's brutal.
	I know.
	I mean, I'm not like.
	Actually, no.
	Yeah, I'm pretty against guys that are shorter than me.
	Yeah, don't forget.
	I'll be honest.
	So it's just a no.
	I mean, not necessarily like a no-no.
	Like, if you're like my height, maybe a tiny bit shorter, it's fine, but like, maybe not for marriage.
	I would like to find it.
	Well, then, if not for marriage, for what?
	I mean, like...
	Casual sex?
	No.
	For what, then?
	I don't know if they're just nice.
	I would get to know them and stuff.
	But they have to work.
	I mean, yeah, they'd have to work harder.
	If you're shorter, you have to work harder.
	That's what I'm saying.
	She would lead them on.
	I mean, so when you're 6'1, you said so, bare minimum, your height, so they have to be 6'1.
	Yeah.
	But I'm assuming you'd still prefer taller.
	Yes, I would much rather prefer taller.
	So like what would be like, I mean, I'm assuming 6'3, 6'4.
	Ideal height is like, if I could pick any height, it would be like 6'7.
	But that's really limiting your options.
	I know, but that's not very like realistic.
	Have you tried the NBA?
	Yeah.
	I mean, swimmers?
	I gotta do it.
	Yeah.
	Actually, yes, swimmers, yeah.
	Yeah, they're really.
	Yeah, they're awful.
	I ain't heard that one.
	Yeah, and dark features.
	Okay.
	So, 6'1?
	What is the per what is the one per like bottom one percentile of female weight?
	Bottom one?
	Yeah.
	Like if a guy was like, I will only date women under 100 pounds.
	Okay, actually, this is okay.
	This is, I've heard you guys talk about Esmond Plagueis for comparing height to weight.
	I feel like that's like a not great comparison because height is something you cannot control.
	You're born that way.
	Weight is like, but yeah, I think it's a good idea.
	So it's more acceptable to judge.
	Yeah, that would be worse.
	I think it's more acceptable to judge on weight than it is height, in my opinion.
	I agree.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, so I mean, wouldn't that make a worse case for women than because well, because then men be like, well, if you're overweight, you can change that shit, but I can't change how tall I am.
	And so if women are looking preferentially for men who are taller than them.
	But there's a lot of guys that won't date me because I'm taller than them.
	No, no, I understand that, but I'm just saying from a preference standpoint, you're saying it's okay to criticize based on weight because it's changeable, but not height.
	No, I think it's fine to criticize on both, honestly.
	But yeah.
	Oh.
	Yeah.
	Because I thought you said the opposite.
	Well, I was just saying that I feel like it's like an uncare, like guys get, will be like, well, you can't judge me on my height.
	Like, because like I'll judge you on your weight kind of thing, but I feel like it's not.
	It's fine to criticize both, but I feel like it's just not a super fair comparison.
	Because if you have a preference towards more fit girls, that's fine.
	Preference toward taller guys, it's fine, but girls can change their weight.
	Yeah, but again, wouldn't that still be worse than the preference, right?
	Because you're saying, because you can actually do something about that.
	I can't do anything about that.
	It's completely fair, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	I mean, and have you looked at the percentage of men that fall in me?
	Yeah, like I think you said 6'3, 6'4, but ideal, like up into 6'7.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, 6'7, you're getting into like just a few thousand at this point.
	Yeah, I want a D1 baby.
	Oh, damn.
	She's gonna get it.
	Yeah.
	The percentage is probably very low.
	I don't know what it is.
	Yeah, well, I think so.
	6'3 and up, it's less than 1%.
	believe it yeah i mean out of like globally or like in the u.s It's probably globally even.
	It probably isn't much more than that.
	I feel like globally it would be lower.
	That's why I'm asking.
	Yes, globally it would be even lower.
	But in the US, it's less than 1%.
	What about you?
	I would say top five qualities would be somebody driven, smart, funny, kind.
	Nick, can you open it?
	Yeah.
	And supportive.
	And then brunette.
	That's quality sex.
	What about you?
	For me, he has to be athletic.
	I like at least 5'9 or taller.
	He has to be family-oriented.
	If he does not want to get married or have kids, then there's no point in us even speaking.
	I would like for him to have a good relationship with his family because if you could treat your mother well, you're going to treat me well.
	That's just how I see that.
	He can't smoke.
	I don't like smoking cigarettes.
	Weed, I don't really care much as long as you're not addicted to it.
	You're not addicted to alcohol, no substance abuse.
	But yeah, and he, I like darker features.
	Black men, I like white men too.
	White men are good.
	They look good.
	I mean, I don't judge as long as you look good.
	I just like physically fit in general.
	Did you get any prospects from your last appearance?
	No.
	No prospects.
	Okay.
	And then the guy I was talking to during that time, him and I ended things because of lack of communication.
	He was living in Seattle.
	He met a different girl and he didn't want to tell me that.
	So I was like, okay.
	Maybe this time.
	And he was my type.
	He was buff.
	He was Hispanic.
	And I was like, damn.
	But then found someone else on another on the way.
	Bummer.
	Yeah.
	Flat into her DMs.
	Going back to hopefully.
	Going back to Natalie here on your notes, you said that you mainly agree with a lot of what Brian says and his views, but I do disagree sometimes with his views on subjects like body count and other aspects of dating life.
	So we can definitely get into the body count thing.
	What do you know what some of the other aspects were that you disagreed with?
	I think it's not necessarily like certain points.
	I think it's more how it's presented.
	What do you mean?
	The tone.
	I mean, sometimes, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I feel like.
	Well, tell me how it's presented.
	I don't know.
	Sometimes in like a little bit of a pushy manner.
	Not that I necessarily disagree with it, like when girls would come on not wanting to share.
	Like I get because this is like a podcast about dating life, so it's something like that.
	Like not share what?
	Body count, whatever it is.
	I usually don't.
	I mean, I might ask them like a secondary way, like, oh, okay, if you don't want to give a number, what about how about the range?
	Yeah.
	I typically don't push, though.
	I mean, the only pushback I also might give is if they make the argument that body count doesn't matter at all, but they have hesitation to revealing what their body count is, then I agree with that too.
	That's the only pushback I give, but I really don't think I tend to.
	Somebody doesn't want to answer that question.
	I don't think I put up too much resistance.
	Was there anything else?
	I feel like I agree with a lot more than I disagree.
	Let's talk about what you disagree.
	I don't know.
	This is hard.
	I like other aspects of dating life.
	What are the other aspects?
	Is it the big labia matter?
	You disagree with that?
	Oh, no.
	Who here's bi?
	Who's bi?
	I'm bi.
	Do you guys have a labia preference?
	I've actually not been with a girl, but I believe I would be, yeah.
	So if that comes into my speaker, like does it.
	Do you think you would have a labia?
	A big labia.
	I don't know if I would.
	You don't have to do it.
	You haven't crossed the threshold.
	Brian, is that something that you ask?
	Like, is that a prerequisite for a date?
	Like, yeah, I think you should ask that, like, third message.
	Not kidding.
	I'm kidding.
	That's how you get them.
	Yeah.
	But I do think, yeah, like if a girl's like into me and she's just like BTW.
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	Is it like a weird Christmas for you?
	Like every time it's just a different reveal and you're like, ah, oh, what?
	That's the wrong one.
	Sorry, it's the wrong one.
	It's the wrong kind.
	No, I mean, I'll like still date a girl who hasn't any, you know?
	Like, I can work with it.
	I can work with it.
	But I mean, like, yeah, this is a nice little surprise.
	Like, if it's just in that one.
	You really are perfect.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, I think women should lead with that though.
	That should be like a Tinder question, like a Tinder problem.
	Well, it's like women, y'all have your preferences when it comes to how big a guy is.
	I'm just, I'm like the only dude in the world who seems to want a girl who has to talk her leave.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, she's got a, she can like tie the knots too.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Sign me up.
	Yeah.
	But you're bi, right?
	So do you have a labia preference?
	You prefer innies or outies?
	No, not really.
	I don't care.
	We're in all shapes and sizes.
	I suppose if it's on the bigger side, that's cool.
	There's more to work with.
	You know?
	More to work with.
	Okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	Anyways.
	So you're on the BLM side of this thing.
	I think so, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Hashtag BLM.
	Yeah.
	Big labia matter.
	Yeah.
	I might identify as a BLM, so, you know, I can't knock them.
	Can't knock them.
	Can't knock them.
	Any, well, I mean, any girls here, like, have you ever been shamed?
	Shamed for the labia?
	No.
	Shamed?
	Shamed?
	Nope.
	Shamed?
	Shamed?
	Anybody?
	I feel like when I first started.
	Are you saying shamed?
	No.
	Okay, just checking.
	What I think, maybe not for the labia, but I think- She's like, no.
	No.
	We need direct eye contact for each hour.
	I think, no, I was just going to say, I think when I was very young and inexperienced, there were certainly, and was with young and inexperienced guys.
	Oftentimes, there would be guys who didn't want to go down on me because they thought it was gross.
	But I don't think it was me.
	I think it would have been any female.
	Wait, are you saying because you have an Audi?
	No, no, no, no.
	I just think I came across that a handful of times.
	I mean, I guess it could have been.
	They never specified, but I think it was more of a...
	Well, I feel like if you're a guy who doesn't want to go down, it's not because you have an in-ear out.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	Anyways.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, wait, Natalie, going back to you, you said you disagree with his views on subjects like body count.
	Yeah.
	So I guess what specifically do you disagree with?
	Okay, I would say I think that a lot of times when people are like, oh, I don't, like, I don't really care about, I don't think it should matter, but then don't care to share.
	I understand like that's contradictory.
	But I also think that to an extent it doesn't matter, but it does.
	So I think that it's contradictory, but it can both be at the same time, if that makes sense.
	Well, I mean, I guess to argue the other person doesn't make sense.
	Well, here, Andrew.
	To argue the other person's side, Andrew.
	So you could think something matters, but also not want to reveal it to the broader public.
	But then why would you say it doesn't matter?
	Because I think it's more of a general term.
	It doesn't really matter.
	But at the end of the day, it's more between the partner and you.
	So then it matters.
	I think it's more so being like the number doesn't matter, but telling this amount of people is what matters.
	Yeah, I agree.
	Then it matters.
	Yeah.
	So here, I think it's a bad way to put it that it doesn't matter.
	Let me give a counterexample, if this is true.
	So I understand what you're saying.
	What you're saying is: look, to the broader public, this may matter, right?
	But to me and whoever my potential partner is, it doesn't matter.
	But let me give you a thought exercise to see if this is true.
	Do you think you would be more likely to reveal your body count if you had slept with zero men versus 20 men?
	Yeah, no, I understand.
	Well, then it matters.
	It matters a lot.
	Whether or not you want to admit that it doesn't matter, clearly it matters.
	Because otherwise, why would you reveal it zero?
	Right?
	Because then there's no shame, right?
	Well, I mean, to actually think about it.
	I think there also is shame in 2015.
	For example, someone might, if we're talking about how much money somebody makes, and in a dating context, for example, do you care about somebody's finances?
	And they say, doesn't matter.
	I don't care.
	My financial situation doesn't matter at all.
	Oh, okay, well, how much money do you have in the bank account?
	Someone might not want to reveal that.
	Yeah.
	Not having anything to do with whether it matters or not, just because they prefer to keep that private.
	Yeah.
	If I can understand the other side's position on this.
	Yeah.
	Like, they don't want to.
	Then it matters.
	Because they don't want to get rid of it.
	Right, no, no, no, sure.
	Sure.
	I wouldn't want to say that.
	I think it's more that it doesn't matter in like a general context of who you're dating and who you're talking to.
	But when you're on a platform like this and there's a bunch of people watching it something that you would want to keep private, I guess.
	Yeah, but in that same situation, if you in the personal finance department made $35,000 a year, yeah, maybe you don't want to reveal that to the public.
	If you made $20 million a year, I don't think he'd give a shit.
	I think he'd be like, yeah, make $20 million.
	But wouldn't you also be kind of like scared of putting security?
	Yeah, it's a big guy.
	I mean, that's true.
	They don't care.
	The point of it, I still would contend is that it matters.
	It clearly matters, and clearly people think it matters.
	Otherwise, they would have no problem revealing it.
	I think the number matters less and like where you are now in life matters more.
	Like if a guy had slept with 70 people in his early 20s and now is like, you know, not living that same lifestyle and is ready for like a locked down relationship, I think that's fine.
	I think that I'm going to agree with you that it seems to me from talking to many, many women that men who were promiscuous and now are not promiscuous, they don't seem to give a shit very much.
	The opposite is not true.
	Men seem to care a great deal about whether or not a woman was promiscuous or not promiscuous.
	So while I agree with you in principle, right?
	So I would agree with you, or I would even make the claim, stronger claim, that promiscuity in men and women is equally as bad.
	But they don't view it the same way.
	I agree, I think.
	And they hold each other to the standard, right?
	So women don't view male promiscuity the same way men view female promiscuity.
	I think society validates guys being like, oh, good on him.
	I don't think it's just a form of social stigma.
	I think that it mostly comes from the idea of paternity.
	So the idea being, you know, paternity testing is recent.
	So all throughout human history, the best way that you could assure that you knew that that's my kid is if you knew that chick was only sleeping with you.
	That's, you know, how else could you determine it?
	And so that's how I think that revolt kind of or disgust is built in with promiscuity when it comes to women, but not for men.
	They just don't view it the same way.
	I think it's a fair argument, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think with the body count, though, when you think about it, you should realistically divide it by how many years you've been sexually active.
	Because when you do that, it really doesn't seem that bad.
	I mean, depending on the number.
	Like if you do have a judgment on it.
	Because I think if you have like a high body count, but you've been sexually active for like 20 years, you know, it really a couple people a year.
	It's like when you think about it.
	Yeah, but so again, I can agree with you in principle, but not in the practical.
	So again, let's look at it from a man's perspective.
	Well, they're not going to do that.
	They're just going to see the full number.
	Is that what you're saying?
	I think that they could even kind of engage with what you're saying, right?
	And you could even hold them to the same standard.
	But they still want, if they're going to settle down with you, generally they want children, right?
	Just generally speaking.
	Maybe not all of them, but generally they will.
	The idea of pair bonding or can you stay with me in the long term, if you've been with way less men, they think that that number goes way higher.
	If you've been with way less men, your chances of bonding with me forever and ever and ever are going to be way higher than if you've been with 100 men.
	And think of it from their perspective this way, on the logic of what do you have to compare me to?
	So this is why virgins, for instance, who get married, they often do report higher sexual satisfaction and they stay together for way longer.
	And when social scientists investigate this, they go, okay, why?
	That's kind of odd.
	Well, there's nothing to compare it to.
	So let's say even the sex in this relationship was bad from your perspective, having been with 50 guys, let's say, but hypothetically.
	Would they both have to be virgins?
	Yeah, both of them in this case.
	If you have nothing to compare it to, I'm sure it's the best sex in the world.
	Right.
	Right?
	So that's one of the good reasons why having a low body count, probably really good for longevity instead of bad.
	I would also agree with her.
	So if you take, for example, a 30-year-old who has a body count of 10 versus an 18-year-old who has a body count of 10, clearly the promiscuity is greater than the 18-year-old.
	I mean, it's the same body count, but...
	I'm going to have to argue this one.
	Okay.
	So let's say it's two women who are 30, right?
	And one racked up 20 bodies from the time she was 18 till the time she was 30.
	And one racked up 30 bodies at 20 and then slept with nobody else till they were 30.
	I don't think a man would give a shit.
	I think that they would still look at the totality of the body count and be just as horrified either way.
	Yeah, that's a fair point.
	That's a fair point.
	But I mean, if the comparison is, for example, if the man is choosing between these two women, say a 20-year-old who slept with 10 men in a period of two years versus a woman who's 30 who slept with 10 men over the course of 12 years, it could indicate two different things.
	Yeah, I agree, but I would say if all things were equal, they were the same attractiveness level of this and that, they would probably go for the 30-year-old.
	But if they have the same exact body count and they have the choice of the more virile 19, 20-year-old, I still think they would go for that one if they had the same body count.
	Yeah, but she wouldn't be seen as like faithful.
	Because if she's still the case, but in terms of like the actual his thought process when it comes to the promiscuity component of it, he can still determine like, well, on this specific metric, the 30-year-old edges out the 18-year-old, but I'm still more attracted to the 18-year-old.
	Yes, if all things are equal, yes, I agree with that.
	I just think that in that case, if you're just going between these two isolated cases, I guess I can agree with that in spirit.
	But I think when this is applied in a broader scale to how men engage, or at least how I've heard them talk about how they engage with relationships, they're looking at the overarch and they say, okay, the amount of number of men you've slept with is definitely going to determine how loyal I think you're going to be to me.
	That's definitely in their mind.
	Hey, yo.
	Hey, Nick, we're going to do a shout out for Peyo here because we have a little, this is a perfect transition.
	Payo, thank you for the raid.
	Hope you had a good stream, man.
	Nick, pull up Twitch really quick.
	Guys, and also we're going to pull up.
	Guys, drop us a follow.
	Thank you for the raid, Payo.
	If you have a...
	By the way, guys, it's been 26 minutes since we've had a Prime sub.
	I think it's...
	It's bugged.
	Help, Maddie.
	Help.
	Help.
	Yo, Payo.
	Thank you so much for the stream, man.
	Guys, if you're coming over from Payo's stream, we are going to start playing World of Warcraft here soon in a couple minutes.
	We're going to talk about the dating, like online dating and World of Warcraft.
	So if you're coming from Payo, just drop us a follow, guys.
	We always talk about dating.
	Also, we're going to have the girls rate on Gulch dating.
	Exactly.
	We're going to have the girls rate, yo, donkey, thank for the prime, rate Payo on a scale of one to ten.
	Would they date him?
	And also, we're going to show them the keyboard video, okay?
	All right, thank you for the raid, Payo.
	Nick, so can you find the keyboard video?
	Can you find his Instagram?
	Because we're going to Peyo's single guys.
	He's a very, he's a big streamer in Canada.
	He's French-Canadian.
	He's French-Canadian.
	So, in fact, because he's French-Canadian, I'm going to change the TTS voice to hold on.
	I'm trying to change it to Canadian.
	One sec.
	True Canadian.
	Where is it?
	Where is it?
	Is there an English Canadian?
	There is a Canadian voice.
	Okay, I'm going to do French-Canadian.
	We're going to call it Liam.
	Okay, so if any TTS is.
	No, you got to call it Gary Eppy.
	Nick, can you pull up his Instagram first?
	Okay.
	Can we get his Instagram going?
	All right, here he is.
	All right.
	He lives in Quebec.
	He's a Quebecois.
	Quebecois.
	All right.
	Scroll down.
	Okay.
	So, skate order, obviously.
	You know.
	He's obviously, you know, this is some World of Warcraft footage on his personal Instagram.
	Next.
	Scroll down.
	Wait, go back up.
	That has that's AI.
	The one with the beard?
	No way.
	Click on the one of him cleaning a pool.
	Look, so he's like kind of domesticated.
	Like, he'll like, if you guys have a pool, he'll, you know, maintain the pool, I guess.
	Next.
	Also, look at the tricep.
	He's obviously been like working out a bit.
	Scroll down.
	He kind of looks like Elon Musk.
	He kind of looks like Elon Musk.
	The photo over there, if you scroll back up, it kind of looks like a little bit of a dude.
	I'm on the one where he's shirtless.
	Can we see that one?
	Okay, next.
	I feel like you're trying to make sure that these girls.
	Do you ever date this guy?
	How old is this again?
	How old is he?
	He's like 40.
	No, I don't know.
	I think he's like 20.
	He's not 40.
	He's not 40.
	No way.
	36?
	36.
	Wait, hold on.
	Wait, click.
	Do the shirtless one.
	Scroll down?
	Scroll and keep scrolling.
	He's been posting a lot on Instagram.
	He's been dropping thirst traps.
	Click the sword one.
	So this is him with like Thunder Fury on if you guys like Blessed Blade of the Windseeker.
	So he had it on like two of his rogues in classic.
	Like no easy feat, right?
	So he's obviously like a parser.
	Like he's a pumper in the raids and shit.
	Like he's but honestly like his PvP and duels way better.
	Like PvE, he wasn't big on PVE.
	But like when it came to like PvP, like solid, like big on duels, but also like PvP.
	Like he'll just smoke somebody.
	So going around the table, like let's just say if you're single, would you date Peyo?
	One day there's going to be a chick here who has spent years playing World of Warcraft and is just going to start spurging at Brian when he does one of these rants.
	And I'm going to be here for that day.
	I'm going to be here when that day comes.
	Lower it.
	Lower it.
	Lower.
	So going around the table, would you date Peyo?
	I'm sorry, but no, I would not.
	No.
	Were we supposed to do it at scale one to ten also or no?
	No, just maybe.
	I thought he was cute.
	Oh, payo.
	Okay.
	No.
	No.
	Is it because he speaks French?
	No, French is cool, I think.
	But I don't find him attractive.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	No.
	Why no?
	Oh, I don't think we got answers here.
	I said no.
	I said no.
	Oh, okay.
	No, thank you.
	Andrew?
	Thank you.
	You do?
	If you're single.
	Like, that's.
	He's straight.
	It's taking him a really long time to answer.
	Sorry, Andrew.
	Okay.
	He's really contemplating.
	He's like, hmm.
	And Nick, just really quick, just maybe this will turn things around.
	Can you show us the keyboard video?
	Okay.
	And then mute the.
	I have no idea.
	I think.
	Can you work on that?
	That's why I muted abstract timing.
	So, Peyo, thank you again for the raid.
	If you're watching on Twitch, can you guys drop us a little follow in the chat?
	Twitch.tv slash whatever.
	He's trying to find the keyboard video.
	While we're doing that, why not?
	We'll just get into this.
	Stiffler, ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of one to ten.
	You can't pick seven starting with you.
	Go ahead.
	Rating my own look?
	Yeah.
	Oh, a ten.
	Ten?
	Okay.
	Ten.
	Ten?
	I'm going to go for an eight.
	Eight?
	Yeah, eight.
	Eight?
	Can we go like seven point something or no?
	No sevens on it.
	No sevens on it.
	I'm just talking about that.
	On like a really good day.
	Eight.
	I think an eight.
	I was going to say seven and a half, but eight.
	Yeah.
	Today?
	Okay, Andrew, what do you reach yourself?
	Four.
	I give myself a five.
	So 10, 10.
	Eight.
	Eight.
	Okay.
	This is like solely appearance, right?
	Nick, do you have a leader?
	For today.
	For today?
	No, just your appearance.
	Oh, as a whole, how you see yourself.
	Oh.
	I probably look.
	I mean, no, I find out a ten.
	Just your physical appearance only.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I like him.
	I like him.
	Okay.
	Can we get the video going or?
	It's going to have any like just looking up on the web.
	I mean, it's honestly, if you go to his Twitch, I think it's one of his top clips.
	I'm pretty sure.
	Maybe.
	Hold on, let me see if probably the Twitch chat is going to help us out here.
	Hold on.
	All right.
	Hold on.
	I'll see if I can.
	Actually, I don't know if they can put URLs in the Twitch chat.
	Sorry, guys.
	We're trying to find his video.
	Because all the girls except kind of you said no for Peyo.
	But I think if I show you guys this video, it's going to totally change your mind.
	All of you.
	No, not you.
	It's going to change the guys who said no.
	How are we doing on the video?
	The keyboard?
	Yeah, I'm looking for.
	I literally just typed in Peyo keyboard video.
	I think I've already found it.
	Oh, a question.
	Do we know how tall Peyo is?
	Yeah, I'll put, I mean, he doesn't look like he's over 6'1.
	Okay, found it.
	Definitely not next.
	Keyboard video might be tracking.
	No, he's actually like, I'm pretty sure he's like 6'3, honestly.
	He's a tall guy.
	We'll decide after the keyboard video.
	Okay.
	Alright, Peyo.
	Is he still in the chat?
	Is he still in the chat?
	Peyo, are you still in the chat, dude?
	Peyo, are you in the chat room?
	I'm trying to hook it up.
	Yeah, play that.
	Play that.
	Yeah, put the sound on all the way.
	Oh, wait.
	Yo, is it a...
	Is a rice?
	What is this?
	We got a new friend.
	No, I think it's a rice.
	I'm not sure, man.
	I don't want to touch it.
	No.
	So, hold on.
	You might think your knee-jerk reaction is that's gross.
	But is it gross?
	Or is that his commitment to being a top-tier gamer and streamer that he doesn't clean his keyboard?
	He's so dedicated, so focused.
	He has no time cleaning his keyboard.
	He doesn't have time to do it.
	Does he shower?
	Does he shower?
	Like once.
	Does he kiss himself while he's playing?
	Like, I think he showers like once a week or something.
	That's fucking disgusting.
	No way.
	I feel like that video made it worse.
	Yeah.
	I thought that would help.
	No.
	I mean, I appreciate the commitment.
	That's like good values, you know, but it just.
	He reminds me of my cousin.
	Yeah.
	I was going to say my brother.
	He has a fun laugh.
	Yeah, he's got a great laugh.
	You threw him under the bus, Brian.
	You threw him under the bus.
	No, I thought it would help.
	Because the girls would know, like, that's dedication.
	If your keyboard's that dirty.
	I thought initially when it was blurry that it was like weed.
	And that I would have maybe have been more acceptable.
	No, it was like crumbs.
	But also, Peyo, I will buy you a new keyboard.
	I will buy you any keyboard you want.
	All right.
	Make more videos and dedicate him to Brian of the keyboards that look like that just so that we can watch Brian Sperg for hours about it.
	Exactly.
	Okay.
	Make his OCD go nuts.
	So going back to this one, we have two tens at the table.
	Billy?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't think other people would say I'm a 10, but I got to wake up every day and feel that way about myself.
	Who do you think the prettiest girl in the room is?
	I would say I think you're very pretty.
	Thank you.
	So why do you think she rates herself less than you rate yourself if she's the prettiest?
	I don't know.
	I think that'd be a question for her.
	Yeah, I know, but you're bisexual, right?
	So it's easy for you to rate women, isn't it?
	Sure, I suppose.
	But I'm not tending to.
	So what are the features on her that make her prettier than you, even though you're a 10?
	I didn't say she's prettier than me.
	You said she's the prettiest girl in the room could have been you.
	Oh, I thought you meant outside of me.
	I mean, I suppose, I don't know.
	I don't really like, well, you want me to say what makes her prettier than me?
	If you think she's the prettiest girl in the room.
	Well, I think she should rate herself higher.
	I definitely think that.
	I just think she's pretty.
	And the prettiest girl in the room.
	So what makes the other girls here?
	Maybe I'm a nine.
	Okay.
	It's not that they're less pretty.
	Well, sorry, I'm trying to reconcile the possibility here.
	If she's prettiest, then all other people who aren't as pretty must be less pretty because otherwise she can't be the prettiest.
	All right.
	That's fair.
	Sure.
	So what makes the other girls less pretty?
	I think maybe for me, and I hope I don't offend you by this.
	I think it's more I'm attracted more to her.
	Based on what features, what phase.
	I think she has a nice style.
	Her eyes are very pretty.
	Thank you.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I tend to be attracted more to women of color than white women.
	Okay.
	It's just a preference.
	Okay.
	So who's the second prettiest girl?
	This is so foul.
	Why?
	I just don't like rating people in general.
	Right, but this is the thing that this question is asked because women often, when they are rating themselves, they're not actually rating themselves based on beauty.
	They're rating themselves on all kinds of other shit, which is tangential to the question that we're asking.
	We're not asking you about your feelings.
	We're not asking you about if this is a day where you woke up with extreme confidence and on a Tuesday you would have rated yourself a six because you felt less confident on a Tuesday.
	Just purely physical attractiveness.
	That's all we're asking.
	So if that is the case, that you're able to objectively rate people like this, including yourself, as a 10, then I would assume that there's features that you have that make you a 10 that other women do not have who are not 10s.
	I don't know how objective it is because I think if I'm rating them, it's subjective.
	Yes, but what do you say?
	Sure, but objective to you.
	Even if it's subjective from their standpoint, it would still be objective from yours.
	Only you know what you're attracted to.
	Sure.
	So then that would be an objective standard from your perspective.
	You could not be subjectively attracted to something, could you?
	I guess that's fair.
	Yeah.
	I mean, my eyes, I would say, is a big one.
	I don't think anybody else has two different colored eyes.
	I think it's a unique feature.
	I like that.
	Yeah.
	That's the big distinguishing factor is that you have different colored eyes.
	I mean, it's one of them.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	So who's the second prettiest girl, you think?
	This is so annoying.
	I don't know.
	I would say, like, she stands out to me the most.
	It'd be hard for me to, like, level anyone else outside of that.
	Is there a possibility that you think that saying out loud what you actually think could potentially hurt somebody's feelings?
	And so that's a motivation for why you don't actually want to say anything about it.
	I mean, certainly, yeah.
	Do you think that it's reasonable for me after being around thousands of women and hearing them nitpick each other to death, especially the second one gets up and leaves the room, that most women likely can ascertain the beauty standard in comparison to themselves with other women almost instantly, but never actually want to say it to anybody or say it within the earshot of other women?
	Why is that wrong?
	I'm not saying it's wrong.
	I'm just asking if it's true.
	It is true.
	It's 100% true.
	100% true.
	Is it true?
	Yes, true.
	Repeat the question.
	Isn't it true that women can very quickly ascertain if another woman is prettier than them or has features that they wish they had almost instantaneously, and then will often nitpick the shit out of them when they're not around based on those standards?
	I mean, sure, but I think that is just like a matter of your character, right?
	Maybe the nitpicking part, but not necessarily the, I do have a view.
	Yeah, that's what I mean.
	You see what I'm saying?
	Yeah.
	And so you would say that most women have a view of this and can very quickly ascertain if another woman is more or less attractive than them.
	Yeah, sure.
	I mean, beauty's in the eye of the beholder.
	Sure.
	Even if it's from your subjective standpoint, you would still have that standpoint, right?
	There's also things that are like objectively attractive.
	If you're very symmetrical, you're going to be more attractive.
	I agree, but I just would prefer to take that off the table of universal standards because people don't like to deal in universals.
	They like to deal in, especially when it comes to things which could potentially hurt somebody's feelings.
	You know, it's really subjective.
	It's really just kind of up to the beauty of the behind the beholder bullshit, right?
	So I just like, okay, we'll just go with purely that.
	And if that is the case, then you still do have a standard for what you think is attractive or not attractive.
	And so if that's the case, I just am always wondering why so many women lie when you ask them this question.
	They're going around a table of women like this, right?
	Why would you say that the prettiest girl in the room rates herself lower than you who claimed that you were one of the most beautiful, possibly in the world, at a 10, right?
	That's putting yourself at the highest possible metric for all the beautiful women who have ever existed on planet.
	Okay, I'm a four.
	Do you want me to lower?
	Designed to break you down or hurt your feelings.
	Designed instead to see if the answer that you're giving is based around what you actually think or what you think people want to hear.
	That's what it's really for.
	I suppose, well, I suppose if we're, it is the looks question.
	So it's just, I guess I'm not with the, I'm not intending to lie.
	Well, I'm not even saying you are.
	Yeah.
	But I think that socially, these things are built in, especially to women, where they think one thing, but they're not going to verbalize what that thing is that they think.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Because it's not part of be nice, right?
	Sure.
	I don't think every, well, I guess we already kind of covered this.
	I don't think every woman, like, we can definitely see the other features that make women, you know, more attractive than us.
	But I don't think that means that every one of us is going to go nitpick them, you know?
	No, I'm not saying that you would nitpick them necessarily or that you or talk shit, but that you would be able to ascertain quickly if this woman's more attractive than you or not.
	Sure.
	Yeah, that's all I'm saying.
	Okay.
	And so if I know that you agree that that is true, and every woman here seems to agree that that is true, then if I asked you to honestly rate the woman next to you, would you?
	Do you want me to?
	Yeah.
	You want me to rate her?
	Yeah, honestly.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Well, then I'd have to also start by lowering my own because I suppose I wouldn't be a 10 if we're talking, you know, I feel like a 10 myself, but I suppose based on looks.
	Maybe I'd be, well, I'm not allowed to say a seven.
	So I would, I suppose I would do, I mean, I think I'm very pretty, but I suppose I would do an eight.
	An eight.
	I suppose I would do an eight for you as well.
	And one next to her?
	I mean, they're all probably going to be eights.
	All of them?
	Yeah, everyone.
	I mean, I think it's a pretty attractive example of women.
	Think of a woman who is a famous woman that you can think of who's under an eight.
	Lizzo.
	That was real quick.
	I don't know why that's.
	Melissa McCarthy popped in my head randomly.
	That's a really weird one.
	That is a really weird one, yeah.
	Oh, like a four, five, four.
	I don't really think that I would rate anyone too, too low, but that also might just be because it's socialized in me, you know?
	Right.
	So as far as the hurting the feelings things go.
	Sure, yeah, yeah.
	And so the reason this question is asked, it's not actually ever asked to be offensive.
	It's asked to determine the delusion level.
	Like, what is the delusion level?
	If I'm comparing myself to the most attractive men on planet Earth, right?
	Tens?
	Yeah, I'm a fucking four.
	Of course.
	Of course that's true.
	Fucking old, right?
	Haven't taken great care of myself.
	I'm a four for sure.
	Brian, he's delusional.
	He's a five either.
	But the thing is, it's like, okay, at least a five is more rational and reasonable than I'm a 10 on par with the most beautiful women in the existence of the world, right?
	Doesn't that sound delusional when you think about it?
	And doesn't it sound narcissistic from people hearing it?
	Doesn't it actually have the opposite effect when you think about it?
	I mean, I think we all have to be a little delusional to get through our lives as the physical being that we are.
	But sure, I'm sure.
	You think we have to be delusional?
	I mean, I don't think anybody is waking up and the first thing they say to themselves is like, oh, man, I'm a four.
	Let me go about my day.
	Yeah, you know, I think that's where I'm going to disagree.
	So I think that there are tens of thousands of men who do exactly that.
	They wake up and say, Okay, I'm at the lower end of the socioeconomic tier and the physical attractiveness tier, and I need to change that quickly.
	Yeah.
	Well, I'll let you, yeah, you could take it from there.
	Well, I was gone for a bit, so I don't remember where things left off.
	But yeah, that's all I'm saying: is that I think that men do, because they have to operate in a hierarchical system, they do actually have to be objective and non-delusional about this.
	Their attractiveness level, their socioeconomic status matters to them in a daily way that doesn't seem to apply to women.
	And so, no, I don't think they're that delusional about it.
	I think that they do indeed get up and go and look at the mirror and go, Whoa, I really don't look very good.
	And I'm really broke.
	And I need to do something about that.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I think that that's kind of the distinction.
	That's why the question is asked and why men are constantly stunned by hearing that this podcast seemingly has the most beautiful women in the entire world on it all the time.
	Well, I also, it's no, that's fair.
	That's fair.
	It's hard for me to just do looks with myself, though, even when the question is asked about looks, you know?
	But anyway.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Well, question for the whole panel.
	Have you guys, what do you think is more common?
	A mid-guy with a beautiful girl or a handsome guy with a mid-girl?
	What's more common?
	Mid-guy, beautiful.
	Let's start over there.
	I'd say mid-guy with a beautiful girl.
	Mid-guy with a beautiful girl.
	Mid-guy with a beautiful girl.
	Yeah, we can all agree on that.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Now, this might be true, but one of the issues that I have with it is there's a couple things.
	On one hand, if you see your female friends or just women you don't even know and you're like, why is she with that guy?
	He's mid or whatever.
	I actually think women make awful appraisals of men's attractiveness as well as their own attractiveness.
	And so social pressure is a very big thing.
	So if you have like huge swaths of women who think, whoa, all these women are settling, you're probably going to like be telling your girlfriends you could do better.
	And that's going to instill in your girlfriend's head, who's otherwise in a good relationship, who's otherwise in a relationship with somebody in her league, you're going to start putting things in her head.
	She's going to have things in her own head thinking, I settled for this guy.
	I'm better looking than this guy.
	Because if 80% of women appraise themselves higher than they actually are, and you have a far smaller subset of men who have this delusional self-appraisal, then you're going to have women who find themselves feeling contempt essentially for their partners because they feel like they've settled when actually they're in a relationship with somebody who is their equivalent.
	And also, not to mention, you guys have the benefit of makeup, which, and you'll judge yourself.
	Here's how I look with filters.
	Here's how I look with filters.
	And sorry, I got distracted.
	Here's how you look with filters and makeup and all this shit.
	And you think that that's how you actually look.
	That's not the way you actually look is how you look without any makeup, just stepped out of the shower.
	That's how you look.
	Now, the other thing is, when it comes to this, how do I want to frame this?
	Well, I would take this even easier, and kind of an easier way to rationalize it for me is I think the opposite.
	I think it's way more common to see the attractiveness switch.
	So you think that it's mid-women, or I'm sorry, mid-men with beautiful women, right?
	I got a lot.
	I guess.
	Yeah, I think it's the opposite.
	And the reason I think it's the opposite is because of just how high I hear women rate themselves.
	So I think if they're, if you're, for instance, it's no offense to you, no offense to you either, but if you're rating yourself on par with the most beautiful women on planet Earth, then what fucking guy isn't in comparison to be mid?
	You know what I mean?
	And so if you're looking at every woman as a comparison to yourself and saying all of them are on par with you and that makes them a 10, or if that's, because I would consider that pretty average, right?
	But if you're considering that to be a 10, then what fucking guy wouldn't be a mid, you know what I mean?
	But I think it's the other way around.
	I think I usually see guys who are way, way out of women's leagues with part women.
	That's how I perceive it.
	I just think that women's estimation of themselves is way too high.
	Another question for the panel.
	So how do you think men treat women who they think they are settling for?
	Do they treat them well, or do they tend to treat them poorly?
	Poorly.
	Poorly.
	Poorly, yeah.
	Poorly.
	Do you have an answer?
	Oh, I, uh...
	It's so tough because we're talking strictly based on looks.
	And it's like relationships.
	Yeah, there's more to it than that.
	You know, like, if you're a mid, my consideration, I mean, if we're if we're solely looks, then that's fine.
	Yeah, we're not talking about that.
	I don't know.
	I think they treat them similar to how they treat themselves.
	Well, I mean, we have a woman here who said her treatment totally changed when she became more physically attractive.
	She used to weigh more.
	She now weighs less.
	The treatment has totally changed.
	And so taking her anecdotal example here, I would say this equally applies to women.
	Women treat men who they're more attracted to better than they treat men who they're less attracted to.
	I think that's just a subconscious thing.
	Right.
	But if as a woman, let me ask you a question.
	If you think you're more attractive than you actually are, how are you going to treat the men who are actually in your league?
	You're going to just outright reject them.
	You're going to ignore them.
	Or if you do end up in a relationship with them, you're going to view it as settling.
	And invariably, you're not going to treat them very well.
	Not in all instances, of course.
	I'm not saying all women are inclined to treat people worse off, but it occurs to me that we do tend to treat people differently based on our sense of how attractive they are.
	If you settle for somebody, you might do less for them.
	You might not treat them as well.
	Sure.
	That's fair.
	I think a lot of it for girls too is like a lot of attractiveness.
	I know we're talking solely based off looks, but a lot of attractiveness is from personality.
	I've seen guys that I like know that before I get to know them, I can be like, they're not very cute.
	They're not that good looking.
	But once you get to know them and their personality, it can completely change.
	And I'm notoriously known to go for guys that the rest of my friends don't find very attractive, but solely because of their personality and how they hold themselves.
	Or wait, are you asking?
	Yeah, so were they still 6'3, but they weren't good looking, but they're not?
	No, not necessarily.
	I mean.
	I thought you only dated 6'1 and above.
	My height and above's like, yeah, almost 6'1.
	Yeah.
	I mean, height's a big thing, but I think that their personalities are more like the thing that gets them across.
	If a guy's funny and like hold himself with confidence and stuff, it goes well.
	Right.
	Are all men funny?
	What percentage of men do you think are funny?
	And what percentage of men hold themselves with confidence or have charisma?
	Probably a pretty high amount, but I think there's a fine line between confidence and charisma and like ego.
	Sure, these are all different things, but I always said that, oh, sorry, go ahead.
	Well, I mean, I was just going to say, I agree that men can make up for deficiencies by having outstanding personality, humor, etc.
	They can make up for it.
	I still think some component of physical attractiveness needs to be there.
	Yeah.
	But, yes, sure.
	If they can.
	But what if a guy doesn't have those things?
	Doesn't have the physical traits?
	No, he doesn't have the humor or the charisma or the personality.
	It's probably a no-guy.
	I find that when people don't hold themselves in confident ways, don't have the charisma, they become less attractive to me.
	Okay.
	Even if they're like a 10 out of 10, there's just something about them that will always be less attractive to me.
	The way you think really matters.
	Yeah.
	There was a guy that I was talking to.
	He had an eight-pack, beautiful, but he was a liberal.
	And I was just like, I can't do it.
	Just the way that he, the things that he would say, I just couldn't do it.
	You did the right thing.
	I'm telling you, he was sexy.
	His biceps were insane, but he was just stupid.
	Not big enough.
	It really does matter.
	My first boyfriend, he actually was ugly.
	He was not attractive.
	People tell him all the time, how the hell were you able to get Kashwan?
	He's just my personality.
	And it's true.
	He was a conservative.
	No, I was like 17.
	He's in prison now.
	I didn't really choose the best guy this first time around.
	He dodged a bullet.
	I mean, I guess going back to my point, so if women tend to have a delusional and inflated sense of self as it comes to their physical attractiveness, they'll rate themselves higher than they actually are.
	They rate men lower than what those men actually are.
	I mean, how is this just not a recipe for disaster where women will just be perpetually chasing after men who are out of their league and rejecting the men who are in their league?
	So, I mean, that's why I think this rating question is important.
	Frankly, I think most women are trying to date well above what their looks, prospects, and personalities warrant.
	I say some women, not all.
	I agree.
	I especially think the issue of women chasing men is rampant right now.
	I don't know if I entirely see the correlation between it, being because they rate themselves more highly and tend to avoid men who you say are in their league.
	But I definitely think that it's a problem when women demean themselves to the point of chasing men, whether they recognize they're doing it or not.
	Well, I think that the script has slowly been getting flipped with Gen Z.
	So the idea of egalitarianism, the movement towards we're just interchangeable widgets, which has become socialized in society.
	It seems to be rejected pretty heavily by a huge subset of Gen Z.
	A bunch of them embrace it, don't get me wrong, but a larger subset of them say no than you would ever imagine.
	And so they seem to look at this and go, ah, you know, if you really think we're equal and you really think that you're awesome, and you can pay for the fucking dates and you can fuck off.
	And it seems to kind of reverse the script, right?
	Now the women kind of have to chase them.
	They're just like, eh, you know, we don't really want to get involved if this is going to be a lot of work and a pain in the ass and this type of thing.
	And there seems to be a much larger subset of that now than there was definitely for millennials.
	Just one point of clarification, Gracie.
	When I say chasing, I don't mean that they're necessarily like doing the proactive things that men do to get women, although they are, but so when I say chasing, I just mean like the men that they want to be with.
	So the man could still be taking initiative because men will shoot their shots with women below their league.
	But the women will view this purely sexual interest and think that this is somehow equating to like long-term romantic interest.
	And so a really attractive guy might pursue a woman who's less good-looking than him.
	Doesn't mean that she'll ever get commitment or anything like that.
	That's why women often complain about fuckboys and the like.
	Because there's just a differential there.
	And you typically, it does happen to men, but you typically don't hear men complaining about, well, I slept with her once and then, I mean, look, there's some there's some women who do this, but I slept with her once, I wanted more, but she didn't.
	Some women do this, but it's not a common complaint among men.
	And the differential is: so, as a man, if we can sleep with a woman, there's a very high likelihood we can get her in a relationship.
	It's not clear to me if the reverse is the same.
	It's not clear to me if a woman, just because you can sleep with a guy, that you can, with certainty, get him into a relationship if that's your goal.
	I'm just, doesn't that make sense though, based on what you just explained?
	So, like, a guy, I'm like, did I hear this right?
	So, a guy sleeps with a girl and thinks he could get her in a relationship.
	Is that what it is?
	But then it's not the same as that.
	Yeah, like as men, if we can sleep with you, if we want a relationship, there's a pretty good chance we can get that girl in a relationship.
	It's not clear to me if a girl sleeps with a guy that she can, in all instances, get the guy in a relationship.
	I think that's fair.
	It's true.
	Because here's one of the reasons.
	So, in order for us men, in order for us to sleep with a girl, typically, from the girl's perspective, from the woman's perspective, we have to be at least attractive enough to be in a relationship with you.
	So, if you have, and it goes sort of very opposite ways.
	So, for you to sleep with a guy, even if it's casual, you'll typically want the guy to be like you'll go out of your way to find like a super attractive guy to do that.
	Yeah, it's a fly, cool.
	Whereas when it comes to women, or excuse me, when it comes to men, we'll sleep with a girl who, just on the basis of her looks alone, we just want to have sex, whatever.
	She'll never get commitment.
	She'll never get a relationship.
	We'll still sleep with her.
	Like, just on the basis of her looks, like, we'll sleep with her, but based off of her looks, we would never be in a relationship with her.
	She'll never get commitment.
	She'll never get a relationship.
	Does that make parse for you?
	Like, so, for example, if a guy's trying to get laid, like, he just wants quick sex, he'll lower his standards.
	Whereas women, if they want to just get sex, they'll actually typically, they're not going to lower their standards looks-wise.
	They're going to raise their standards looks-wise.
	They're going to be like, well, if I just want casual sex, I want it to be the hottest guy I can get it.
	Whereas for a relationship, they might recognize, well, I can't get that hot guy into a relationship because he just wants sex.
	So I have to be more realistic when it comes to the physical attractiveness of a long-term partner.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, that's fair.
	But yeah, I don't know that every, well, God, this isn't going to apply to every woman, but like, I feel like if I wanted sex, I would go just sex, I would go for someone who I felt was in my league and or above, you know?
	Yeah, so the most beautiful men on planet Earth, right?
	For sure.
	Tens.
	Tens, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, listen, after discussing, I lowered my number, okay?
	So don't shit on me.
	But I'm just, I'm just saying, from the perspective of a woman who says I'm a 10, they say, well, I'm going to go out and get a guy who's in my league.
	That's every fucking guy who exists, right?
	Sure.
	But I do think after hearing all this discussion, like, I think there is one thing to admitting or saying out loud that you're a 10 and then actually internalizing that and feeling that way.
	It seems like more women just ask the question, like myself, would say, yeah, I'm a 10.
	But then realistically in their everyday lives, I don't think they actually.
	Neither do we.
	We think the exact same thing.
	Well, no, not that.
	So we're saying, so we're saying the exact same thing, right?
	It's that, yeah, you're correct, that most women will identify themselves at an outrageously high number.
	Eight, nine, ten, you know, something in this category.
	But I don't think that they're being honest.
	And when you start to reduce why they're not being honest, you start to recognize these kinds of patterns that it has more to do with how I feel, more to do with how I want to present, more to do with that than how they actually think they rate compared to other women.
	Right.
	So then if that's the case, I don't know that everyone would delusionally go after the most attractive guy.
	Does that make sense?
	Right, but that would make our point for us.
	It would be saying, so if you weren't going after the most attractive guys, but you're going for whatever was in your league, then this idea that you were a 10 and amongst the most beautiful on planet earth clearly can't be the case.
	So that's the point, right?
	No, and I think I got around to the point.
	We have a chat here from Giovanni C. Can I have you read it for us?
	Thank you, Giovanni.
	Brian is spitting.
	A male 10 will sleep with a three to five for any number of reasons, drunk, bored, etc.
	But that three to five will then believe they're in the same league just because the 10 bottom helped for them, okay?
	So I don't know why it stayed up for such a short period of time.
	I need to fix that, but yeah, so really good-looking guy sleeps with ugly chick.
	Now ugly chick thinks they can have a relationship with a really good-looking guy.
	That's his point.
	Women hold more value over sex than guys do, I would say.
	Generally.
	Or like, how do you think?
	I mean, women, women.
	Women, yeah.
	Woman, yes.
	That's what she said.
	It sounds like you're saying woman.
	Woman.
	Women.
	Women.
	Women, sorry.
	Women.
	Okay.
	Women, yes.
	Because I think they tend to have a more like have emotional connection when it comes to sex than guys do.
	Like chemically in the brain, scientifically, that happens too.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Oh, last question on this.
	Do you think you will be more physically attractive in 10 years' time, starting with you?
	No.
	Okay.
	Do you think you're more physically attractive now at 34 than you were at 24?
	I guess not.
	Thank you.
	Guess not.
	What?
	No, I suppose I was more attractive at 24.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	In 10 years, I'll stay the same.
	Okay, so you're 26.
	You'll be not more attractive, but you'll be just as attractive at 36 as you are now at 26.
	I mean, who's to say?
	Maybe I could get more attractive, but yeah, I think I'll probably stay the same.
	So minimum, same, possibly more attractive.
	What about 46, 20 years' time?
	46?
	Probably the same, yeah.
	I mean, just based on like genetics, how my parents and aunts and uncles and stuff have aged, I think so, yeah.
	Okay, 30 years, 56.
	Sure, yeah.
	Are you just trolling?
	I'm not trolling.
	I'm being friendly.
	Okay.
	10 more years, 40 years?
	I think we'll probably cap out at 66.
	66 is the peak, you think, of your attractiveness?
	Yeah, sure.
	Okay, and so I'm just curious.
	So you said you'll be just as or more physically attractive at 56 as you are now at 26.
	Why do you think that is?
	Because I'm pretty.
	Because I'm going to age well.
	Wait, can you just repeat the question to me just so I know you understand the question?
	What's going to make me more physically attractive?
	Is that what you're asking?
	What?
	I didn't say what.
	Okay, repeat the question.
	Well, okay.
	The initial question was: do you think you'll be more physically attractive in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	That is your understanding, right?
	So why will you be more physically attractive at 56 as compared to now at 26?
	Why?
	Because I'm going to be the same person I am, which is a pretty girl, and I'm going to, I don't know.
	So I'll just grant you that people can obviously, you can still be attractive in your 30s, 40s, 50s.
	But that's not the question.
	The question is, will you be just as or more attractive as a comparison?
	Answer still yes?
	Yeah, yeah, still yes.
	Robert Tanner, thank you for the gifted 50 memberships.
	And are you, you are familiar, I am with aging?
	Yeah.
	The whole aging thing?
	That thing?
	Yo, thank you, Pagan.
	Which he has no idea why.
	Because he notices they don't ever confuse men at pluval.
	Interesting.
	Hey, Pagan, thank you, man.
	Appreciate the TCS there.
	This is a good observation by this good observation.
	Saying, for some reason, women can say men fine, but say woman for women all the time.
	I don't understand that.
	That's really weird to me.
	Confusing.
	It is very confusing.
	It sounds similar.
	Women and women?
	It doesn't sound that similar.
	Women, women.
	I feel like it's easier to slip up a little bit.
	Yeah.
	So I'm a little confused, though.
	You said you were 10.
	How can you possibly be a 10 now if you'll be better looking in 10 years' time?
	Because I'll be an 11 in 10 years' time.
	I don't know.
	I don't know what's going to happen.
	Are you aging in good faith or just troll?
	I'm not trolling.
	I'm being friend.
	Right, but so on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the maximum, you can't be an 11.
	So that's not really productive.
	We can't break the scale.
	No?
	Okay, fine.
	You can.
	You can break the scale by saying that you will be the most beautiful woman on planet Earth who exists currently.
	That would be the 11.
	Okay.
	And that's a good faith answer.
	Yeah, it is a good faith answer.
	I mean, this is what I think personally.
	I'm a Martian.
	Did you know that?
	I come from the planetary.
	Did I see your credentials?
	No, you don't need my credentials.
	It's a good faith answer.
	I'm being for real.
	You're being for real.
	That at 36, you're going to be the most beautiful woman on planet Earth.
	That's a good faith answer, Andrew.
	Hey, even Beyonce don't look as good as how she used to be in her 20s.
	I think she looks great, but I mean, again, beauty as she used to.
	She was insane.
	Adriana Lima, she was like the most beautiful person on earth.
	She has kids, stuff like that, like you wrinkle, you Angelina Jolene.
	And there's beauty in that, don't get me wrong, but that's your key, but not as good as when they were in their peak.
	I don't know what my peak is going to be.
	I haven't gotten that far.
	But I do know that I'm attractive, and I'll probably be attractive 10 years from now.
	But that's not, okay, that's not the question.
	I can just grant, like, sure, you'll still be attractive.
	I know what you're saying, but I'm just saying.
	I mean, like, that's my answer.
	I don't know why that's not good enough.
	Well, because you say, well, I will still be attractive in 10 years' time.
	But you understand that's not the question.
	More attractive.
	Yeah, you said just as or more physically attractive.
	Yeah, I said, yeah, just as.
	Okay.
	But so, I mean, knowing what you know about aging, do people get wrinkles as they age?
	Sure, they do, yeah.
	Does this impact if somebody is very wrinkly or what have you, their skin isn't as whatever, youthful as it used to be?
	Does this tend to make someone more attractive or less attractive?
	I mean, I think I don't know why that came in as a TTS.
	She's a witch.
	May we burn her.
	Okay.
	She might let you if you give her your life savings.
	True.
	Yeah, I mean, again, I think maturity, some people are into that.
	Okay.
	So that's my answer.
	I'm going to stand on that.
	Some people are.
	Okay.
	I'm struggling here a little bit.
	So if you think you'll be, when do you think the peak is?
	46, 36, 56?
	Probably the peak will be like 30.
	I mean, can we like not do like 10 years?
	Like 31.
	30, flirty, and thriving.
	So if I could wave a magic wand that only advanced your outward physical appearance, it didn't, you know, you wouldn't pass away five years earlier.
	You wouldn't, if you were to get cancer at a certain age, you wouldn't otherwise get it five years sooner.
	Just your outward physical, and you live to the be, you know, you still live just as long.
	If we could wave a wand, advance your physical appearance five years, six years, you would take it?
	I mean, I'm enjoying the age that I'm at right now.
	I'm not in any rough state.
	It's just your outward physical.
	You're being the same age.
	Okay, sure.
	Why not?
	You would take it.
	Yeah.
	The crucible will pay for that surgery.
	An age.
	No dude.
	Okay.
	You would take that?
	Sure.
	I mean, it's only $10,000 and they can add all sorts of wrinkles and make you look way older.
	Beautiful.
	Then we can really.
	Would you actually do it?
	Would you commit to doing that?
	I don't think anyone's going to say that they're going to commit to doing that.
	Because the answers weren't good faith.
	And you don't actually think that in.
	Or two things can be true at the same time.
	Let's start with the first truth statement then.
	Do you believe that you're going to be the same attractive level that you are right now in 10 years?
	Sure, yeah, I do.
	If that is the case, you don't think you're going to be a smidgen more attractive?
	I think there is a possibility.
	I can't see the future.
	I don't know what's going to happen.
	Sure, you can't see the future.
	You're just guessing right now, right?
	Yeah, educate a guess.
	If you're going to be just as attractive then as you are right now, what would even be the harm of you doing an age advancement surgery?
	Because I don't want to go under the knife for no reason.
	But it has the potential to make you yet even more attractive.
	I just said I could be just as attractive or I could be more.
	We don't know.
	So why would I take that gamble when I'm happy the way that I am?
	But you did say that you would peak at 31.
	Possibly.
	I said possibly.
	So now you don't think you'll peak at 30?
	What did you say?
	30, sassy and flirty or some shit?
	30, flirty and thriving, actually.
	30, flirty, and thriving.
	Again, I don't have a crystal ball.
	I can't see into the future.
	I do know that I have seen plenty of women that have just gotten more attractive as they age.
	And there's plenty of women that I'm sure think that they are less attractive as they age.
	Yeah, can you name one that you think who's a famous one who has gotten more attractive as she's aged?
	God, I can't pull it out of my brain right now.
	I mean, on the spot, Charlotte Johanson has not gotten hotter as she aged.
	I don't think.
	I think she's pretty attractive right now.
	Pretty attractive, but not hotter as she aged.
	I cannot pull one out of my ass right now, but let me think about it for a little bit.
	Okay.
	Oh, up to me.
	You'll have to repeat what the question was for the panelists.
	Do you think you'll be more attractive in 10 years' time?
	I think I will not be more attractive.
	I think the peak is probably between ages like 25 to 35, and then you start getting wrinkles and aging.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Well, you guys are 18, so.
	Well, I guess I could still ask you, do you think you'll be better looking in 10 years' time?
	No.
	Okay.
	28?
	No.
	No.
	I think my standard for beauty will probably change, but I'll probably rank myself similarly.
	So better looking at 28?
	I think like the same.
	Same?
	What about 38?
	Probably less attractive than 28.
	Okay, what about you?
	No, I don't think I'll be as attractive.
	I thought I looked great in my early 20s.
	Like I was damn near perfect, I thought.
	And do you think now?
	And so you're 28.
	You're 28.
	Do you think you were better?
	I'm 30.
	Oh, wait, why did I put 28?
	You're 30?
	Yes.
	Okay, do you think you're better looking at 20 than you are now at 30?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	My stomach?
	Oh, my God.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	There we go.
	WK in the chat.
	WK.
	I'm not worried about age, though, just because how my parents look, but realistically, when I was in my early 20s, I was fire.
	I was good.
	I feel like 20 is 6 to 28 for me.
	Yeah.
	Because you lose, like, you have, like, at least for me, when I was in my young 20s, like college, I have, like, a round face.
	Right.
	And it starts to, like, thin out the older you get.
	I don't know.
	I think it depends where you see yourself too, like, in 10 years.
	I mean, for me, I considered that, like, I would want to have kids by that age.
	And I feel like physically wise, it's probably less.
	Like, your body changes a lot when you have kids.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, I mean, you got to think like 10 years of accrued sun damage, stress, even if you took perfect care of yourself, your diet was perfect.
	You refrained from like staying out in the sun too long, healthy lifestyles, zero stress.
	You were just getting like you had servants that were fanning you with like a palm tree branch and they were feeding you grapes and shit.
	You're still just naturally through the aging process, wrinkles, etc.
	And then most people don't go through 10 years without no stress whatsoever.
	Stress does tend to age you a bit too.
	I also wanted to check into this a little more, because since we've been over this, I don't know how many times with how many different women have very similar answers.
	So I went and I went back and looked at legends, folk legends about the fountain of youth, right?
	And I found hundreds, hundreds of legends about a fountain where you go in or something similar to this, where it reverses the aging process.
	Couldn't find any about a fountain of age or people seeking to age their bodies.
	Could basically find almost no folklore on that.
	A couple of stories, but usually it was like evil and nefarious, right?
	That was the idea behind it.
	Why would you guys think that would be that people would always be seeking to reverse the aging process, but they're never seeking to accelerate it?
	Why do you think that would be?
	Youth is beauty.
	I think it's pretty simple.
	Why else do women get Botox?
	They know that youth is beauty.
	That's just what it is.
	Tighter skin, no wrinkles.
	We all know this.
	And the association then for white men would be attracted to younger women is because they're beautiful.
	Yeah, I don't think I'm ugly.
	But I mean, but that's why, right?
	The general kind of idea that men are attracted to younger women is because they have beauty.
	And that's what they're after.
	Also, I mean, on top of that, if you look at products, they tend to attempt to repair skin damage that is accrued as you age.
	There is no cream out there for women that will give you wrinkles.
	There's anti-wrinkle creams.
	So it's like, well, you wrinkle as you get older, but you're trying to fight against the wrinkles.
	So, you know what I mean?
	You know what I mean?
	Anyways, we have a couple chats here.
	Robert Tanner.
	Oh, is it not?
	Hold on, let me see what's going on here.
	I don't know why it's not coming up.
	One sec.
	That's peculiar.
	Oh, I know why.
	I apologize, guys.
	This got turned off.
	Not sure why that happened.
	Okay, one moment, guys.
	Let me get these out.
	All right, we have Robert Tanner.
	Hey, like the channel, been supporting for a bit.
	Honestly, let me know how I can best support.
	If it's through subs, donations, or combination of both, this goes for Andrew's channel.
	Also, let me know.
	The best way you can support the Crucible is to become a member of the Crucible.video.
	You can see our back catalog there.
	It's not very expensive.
	It's only about 15 bucks a month.
	And yeah, I mean, if you just want to support, honestly, just watching, that's super helpful watching the videos.
	And if you feel inclined to, you know, send in a super or TTS, super grateful for that.
	But yeah, honestly, liking the video, watching the video, et cetera.
	Appreciate it, guys.
	We have SS here.
	Hey, thank you, man.
	Rape, Maddie, and the rubber doll.
	Don't have a nicer way of saying this.
	Redhead, you are barely three, so STFU, please.
	You're giving me psycho vibes.
	Do you want to respond to that?
	I'm not a psycho, and I want to see what you look like.
	Damn, shots fired.
	Shots fired.
	Okay.
	They're not, I don't know why they're only showing up for a very short period of time.
	Let me see if I can fix that, guys.
	Hold on.
	That's peculiar, but okay.
	And then we have, I'm going to pull up the super Nick.
	Billiam the Mars, delusional ginger, the only scale you're going to break is weights.
	Damn, bro.
	Please eat a salad and run on the treadmill for once.
	I do go to the gym and I do eat fairly healthy, but you have PCOS, or you did.
	I don't know if you reversed it.
	I have PCOS, so there's that.
	But I think I look great.
	All right, Billiam the Mars.
	Thank you for the super chat, I guess.
	I did want to come back to some of your stuff.
	Lucia, did I say it right this time?
	Lucia.
	Lucia, did I?
	I don't know.
	You had some tweets that I thought were interesting, and we're going to pull those up.
	Actually, Nick, before we do really quick, let me just do a quick little check, double checky.
	Can you just double check them all really quick, make sure they're all okay.
	Guys, if you want, get a TTS in, get a read-in.
	Be sure to get those in, guys, if you want.
	And are they all good, Nick?
	Yes.
	All right, we got some tweets.
	We got some tweets we have to react to.
	These are interesting for sure.
	Okay.
	Can I have you read them?
	Yeah, I'm in a shitty mood and I want to take it out on a stupid man.
	I'm in the mood to cause permanent damage to your bank account and your balls.
	Watch!
	Permanent damage to the bank account.
	Yeah.
	And balls.
	Yeah, don't leave that one out.
	I actually had a dude give me a fair amount of money to make a custom clip talking about how I wanted to make him infertile and render his balls useless.
	Again.
	Are you a feminist?
	Just curious?
	I wouldn't market myself as a feminist.
	No.
	I mean, I believe in rights for women, sure, but would I call myself a feminist?
	No.
	No.
	All right.
	Well, we can get into that a bit later.
	We'll get through all the tweets and then we can.
	Can I just have you read them?
	Yep.
	I love going to the pool at my apartment because heads always turn when I walk in.
	Yes, I'm a beautiful red-headed goddess.
	And what of it?
	Stop the cow.
	Okay.
	They turn the other way.
	That's very funny.
	I'm like a goddess.
	I am a goddess.
	Thanks for repeating it.
	This is hilarious.
	I want to see more.
	Okay.
	Go ahead.
	Men were created to provide.
	That's literally it.
	Doesn't matter if you consider yourself a fin sub or not.
	I stand by that.
	That's all men are good for is in your view is to provide.
	It may be make me laugh every now and then, but I think I'm funnier.
	Men do a lot.
	Yeah.
	Men created this table, them chairs, they fire in the wars for us.
	Women do that too.
	Who?
	What woman do you really think women are on the front lines?
	Like really?
	Erroneous.
	I don't know.
	I'm not.
	I don't know what to do with this.
	Honestly, you think if a man were to get shot in the front lines, a woman would be able to pick up his body and take him to safety.
	No, I don't.
	I'm just saying that you're like kind of erasing the fact that there are women that are not.
	No, I never said that.
	I never said that there aren't women, but honestly, do you ever see a woman, construction worker, a woman on the skyscraper building cleaning the windows?
	Do you ever see a woman?
	I mean, I've never seen a car.
	Do you ever see a woman out on the streets working on the paper?
	All of those are fair.
	My mother's a lot of people.
	I see the woodworker.
	How often do you see that, though?
	I think you see it more and more.
	But especially, I agree generally with what you're saying.
	Women choose to be in different, like, easier job titles.
	Teachers.
	I'm not saying being a nurse is teaching.
	Teaching is not easy.
	Yeah, teaching is very hard.
	Teaching is not easy.
	It's a very safe, easy job.
	Men don't really have a choice.
	They have to do these hard jobs because who else is going to do it?
	We're not going to actually choose to be an electrician.
	We're just not.
	We're just not.
	I don't know.
	If you had to choose between being an electrician or being an at-home wife, you're going to be an at-home wife and get taken care of.
	We all know this.
	I think it's also a lot of how men and women are raised.
	Like men are taught from a young age how to fix things and stuff like that.
	Whereas maybe some girls are too.
	I mean, my dad does fix a lot of things.
	It doesn't stop us, but we can still definitely do it, but we're not going to choose to do it.
	It's also not instilled in us from a young age like it is from men, so it comes more naturally to them, I would say.
	Well, I don't think you should generalize that.
	Like, maybe you don't, and I personally don't want to do those jobs.
	I'm not going to lie, but there are women that do fix cars, that do woodwork, that do build stuff, that do fight in the military.
	So, I mean, come on.
	When it comes to harder jobs, men do that.
	Would you, like, honestly, if I were to choose between a man or a woman to babysit my child, I would choose a woman.
	We just have, like, there's certain things I would trust women to do better than men.
	Well, sure.
	And men better to do that.
	Hey, Nick, can you go into the infographics tab?
	It's just called Dangerous Jobs One.
	Go ahead.
	Kay, continue.
	Oh, no, I was just going to say that when it comes to like certain job titles, I mean, we would trust women to do certain things versus men.
	I mean, I would trust a man to save me if someone were to break into my house.
	I mean, I know how to shoot a gun, but I'd rather a man try to jump in front of the bullet besides myself.
	I mean, I agree with that, but also who do you think is breaking into your house, a man or a woman?
	A man, but who else are we going to need to get rid of that guy?
	Like, I mean, not everyone.
	I just think it's pretty stupid to just assume, to just think that men and women are on the same level.
	We're just not, we're not even going to be able to do that.
	I never said that.
	I never said that they were on the same level.
	I just said that it is capable that women can do this stuff.
	It is, but I mean, you wouldn't, you'd prefer a man to protect you.
	Realistically, we all would.
	A man would rather prefer a man to protect them.
	I mean, it is what it is.
	Sorry.
	I mean, that's your take on it.
	I mean, isn't it your take too, honestly?
	Because aren't you just pointing out?
	Because there's outliers, there's exceptions to the rule.
	Doesn't mean that there's a lot of people.
	Yo, Robert Tanner, thank you for the gift of 50 memberships, Nick.
	Go ahead, pull it up.
	Thank you, Robert Tanner.
	I mean, these are the top 20 most dangerous U.S. occupations.
	So if you look at the far right, the percentage male logging workers, fishing workers, aircraft pilots, roofers, refuse collectors, truck drivers, iron and steel workers, farmers and ranchers, agricultural workers, recyclable material workers, mining, landscaping, construction workers, cement and concrete manufacturing, electrical, power line workers, police, maintenance and repair workers, taxi drivers, chauffeurs, support activities for mining, mining.
	These are.
	Now, let's get into that even more, even.
	So if you bring that back up real quick, Nick.
	If you look at taxi drivers and chauffeurs, you'll note that in comparison to most of that chart, there's actually quite a few more women than you would think.
	But why would that be?
	If you had to guess why women would enter into that occupation to the point where it would drop it from the 95 percentile down to 85 percent, why do you think that would be just for that particular career?
	I don't have a guess for that.
	I don't know.
	Do you think maybe it's because driving is really fucking easy and the entry, the barrier to entry is really low to just drive?
	I mean, I think there's more to it than driving.
	Well, let's see.
	Let's look at the rest of the chart.
	If you were to go over, for instance, to roofing, you see how that's 98.3% and fishing workers, 99.9%.
	Do you say that those have a massive barrier to entry based on physical qualities, characteristics, and knowledge versus driving a taxi?
	I mean, sure.
	It's a different profession.
	Right.
	So the thing is, is that even in these professions where you see that men are not in this 90th percentile, you see the barrier for entry physically would be far, far, far less, and that's why.
	So that's why these distinctions, when you point out outliers, if women can sometimes do X, nobody disagrees that women can sometimes do X, but most women cannot do X.
	And also because we have children, I mean, a lot of the times where who else is going to go, like, we have kids we have to take care of, we're not going to be able to go mining or do any of the stuff the guys are doing.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Because they have to get out and do it.
	We have to take care of the kids.
	But didn't I just say that men are providers, so they should be doing these jobs?
	Like, it shouldn't, like, I mean, if a woman wants to, by all means, because she can.
	But I'm just saying, men are providers, so go do that job.
	Go learn a trade, go do something, you know?
	Well, you said that that's what that's all they're good for.
	Yeah.
	And what are you good for?
	A lot of things.
	Like, I'm funny, I'm smart.
	You haven't demonstrated that yet.
	I'm a.
	Okay, well, that's your view.
	I'm a musician.
	I dance.
	You do.
	Yeah, the list goes on and on.
	What a great quality.
	You can dance.
	What do you bring to the table, though?
	What do I bring to the table?
	I'm smart.
	I'm funny.
	I'm attractive.
	I have talent.
	What talent in?
	I just said, I'm a musician.
	I dance.
	What kind of music do you play?
	I play a lot of different music.
	I play my guitar, so I play like a drink.
	There's a guitar here.
	Can you play a tune?
	And show us how talented you are.
	I don't want to do that.
	Don't want to?
	I mean, I could.
	You're an amazing goddess, talented goddess.
	I am talented.
	But I also don't really want to serenade a bunch of people that didn't ask me serenaders.
	I don't know if men are so useless that their only job is to be providing for you.
	It sounds like you're just a typified eater.
	Like, I don't know what you're really bringing to the table.
	You're just kind of consuming resources, right?
	But what does that even mean?
	Can you at least cook?
	It means I don't know what you're doing.
	I can cook.
	I know how to.
	I mean, I don't want to hear the building of society.
	The answer that I could be domesticated and I can cook and clean and do all that.
	I can.
	I can.
	No, that's not what I'm asking.
	What I'm asking is what value are you bringing to society?
	I can get to society.
	Like nurses do.
	I mean.
	By being me, Animal.
	I don't do so.
	By being you.
	I'm enough.
	I am enough.
	Okay.
	Let's do the rest of the tweets.
	How many are we doing?
	Let's do them all.
	Yeah, let's do all.
	Let's put us bigger.
	Can you read it?
	Life is always better when you have a male punching bag to abuse whenever you need it.
	And you're referencing these mentally ill men that you take advantage of.
	These are recent.
	These are recent.
	Yeah, that was a few days ago.
	Yeah.
	Pull that one up again one more time then?
	I just like about men.
	Also, you got to clear the business.
	I mean, I understand this is an account that's based on kink, like BDSM.
	So, I mean, but do you actually work for work?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Is it networking work, or do you actually really think that?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I can't really answer that.
	Like, sure, sometimes I say stuff that might have a little bit of truth behind it, but also, I mean, this is a job for me, too.
	So you're playing into the kink a little bit.
	So is that the character you're playing, or is that you?
	I mean, I don't really think I play a character.
	I am me.
	And I'm.
	Then that's you.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Pull that same one up again, real quick.
	Male punching bag to abuse.
	So when you say to abuse, how do you abuse your male punching bags?
	I punch them.
	Oh, like physically?
	I mean, I have, I've like kicked a guy in the balls and he's enjoyed it.
	So yeah.
	Okay, we'll get through all of them and then I'll give my...
	Okay, go ahead.
	It's always the fugliest normie man that assumes I'm a witch and that I'd ever waste my energy doing a spell on him.
	Pack it up, Miss Delusional.
	Go take a hard look in the mirror.
	Fuggliest normie men.
	Interesting, okay.
	Are men concerned?
	You're doing spells?
	I've gotten a comment before.
	Do you do spells?
	I can neither confirm nor deny.
	And that's just being real.
	I don't like, I think, like, spells, like, I mean, anyone can do a spell without outwardly saying they're doing it.
	Like, so, what would, if you're casting a spell, what would be a spell that you would cast?
	When God damn love you.
	I mean, like, abundance.
	An abundance spell.
	Like, I have an altar.
	I sit in front of my altar.
	I light candles.
	I kind of meditate and manifest abundance.
	Sure.
	You could call that a spell.
	But I mean, do you ever cast a negative spell?
	No, I don't believe in a spell.
	The dark spell or something.
	Well, wouldn't all spells be a negative?
	No.
	Well, you say you cast a spell of abundance, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so let us assume that you cast a spell for more money.
	How could you ever receive more money without somehow interfering with the will of other people who ordinarily would not produce whatever the situation would be necessary for you to get that money?
	What do you mean by that?
	Well, so like, let's, for instance, pretend that you're in front of your altar and you cast a spell for a bike.
	Well, unless you believe that the clouds are just going to open up and drop a bike, I assume that you think a bike will come to you through some other mechanism.
	Somebody still had to build it.
	They still had to do X, Y, and Z.
	So if somehow this bike gets to you and it ordinarily would not have gotten to you absent this spell, how would you not be affecting other people's wills?
	I mean, I'm not affecting other people's wills because it's just a means for me to get closer to what I want.
	Like, how is that affecting someone else's will?
	Well, I just explained it to you.
	So let us assume for a second you wanted a glass of water that you would not ordinarily get.
	This is why you cast a spell.
	Your neighbor comes over and he gives you a glass of water, right?
	He ordinarily would not have given you the glass of water absent the spell, or you wouldn't need the spell.
	Didn't you affect your neighbor's will?
	I mean, maybe he just wanted to give me a glass of water.
	I don't know.
	Well, then why would you need the spell?
	Because it's just a spiritual practice.
	So it doesn't work?
	How do you know, though, that it does work?
	If it does work, then I don't see how you get around the fact that you are affecting people's will.
	I don't know how manifesting abundance for myself, which is very vague, honestly, would interfere with someone else's will.
	Because I don't know how you would get the abundance, right, in any other way than affecting people's will, or I don't see why you would need the spell to begin with.
	This is the big downfall and pitfall of the logic of magic.
	It's why, out of all religious practices, it makes the least amount of sense.
	Because magicians and witches always say that they practice white magic, the magic of abundance or growing or nurturing.
	But I don't see how you actually could do that without affecting the will of the things that are around you.
	I don't even see how that's possible.
	How do you know that it's not the will of those things to be affected, though?
	You know what I mean?
	But here's the thing: if it's the will of those things to be affected, why do you need the spell?
	It's not that I need it, it's that I choose.
	No, no, no, hang on.
	No, I mean, like, like, it was the will.
	I don't even know if I can make this make sense, but it makes sense in my head.
	Like, no, I see what you're saying.
	It was the will that she was going to do this spell to then impact the will.
	So, it's still impacting, but it's still impacting the will.
	Yeah, but it was like always supposed to.
	Then, why would you need the spell?
	Yeah, you wouldn't need this spell.
	You wouldn't need the spelling.
	So, you always go back to ground zero.
	How do you translate this to like prayer?
	Prayer, you're asking God for something in his will, not trying to change the will of someone else.
	But I never said I was trying to change the world.
	So, when you're praying to God, the assumption is God is omnipotent.
	So, when you're praying, you're only asking to execute the will of God, never the will of you.
	Never the will of anybody other than the being of God itself.
	Witchcraft's the opposite.
	Witchcraft is asking universe, whatever the hell they are praying.
	Sometimes it's the idea of this universal constant, which then delivers the thing unto you that you want.
	Sometimes it's called the law of attraction.
	Sometimes it's called other things.
	But that's basically what it's doing.
	I have never been able to rationally figure out how that could be possible without affecting the will of other people.
	And then how do you think meditation plays into that?
	Because, well, I guess, are we talking, we're talking about impacting the will of ourselves or others?
	This is getting slightly confusing.
	She was asking for abundance, so that would be the will of others.
	Or how would that be the will of others?
	Are you asking about yourself?
	Oh, yes, abundance for myself.
	That could be literally giving me the strength to go another level and do something for myself.
	Like, I never said I was going to affect the will of others.
	You're putting words in my mouth.
	Well, no, I don't see how you would receive abundance, though.
	What I said specifically was externally, ever, externally, unless you were affecting the will of other people.
	I just don't see how that's possible.
	Well, maybe you just say, if you just say, well, I light a candle so that I get up and motivated to go to the gym the next day, right?
	Fine, I guess, but I don't even know why that would require a spell exactly.
	The idea of spelling is old, right?
	I mean, it's a spiritual practice.
	Yeah.
	Everyone engages in their own spiritual practice.
	Wouldn't it you call more it manifesting then than a spell?
	Yeah, what do you manifest?
	I mean, yeah.
	You can call it manifesting.
	There's multiple words for it.
	What's another word for it?
	Spelling.
	Spells.
	Yeah.
	So the spell is designed to manifest?
	Sure.
	Well, then if you're manifesting, then I just don't see how you would manifest X thing, external, dominating external will.
	I just, I don't understand how that can be done.
	But we can agree to disagree.
	Yeah, but no, we can't agree to disagree.
	I actually just need, I need you to agree to agree or give me an argument for how I'm wrong.
	I literally just gave you an argument.
	What is the argument?
	I told you that I'm not affecting the will of others.
	I'm affecting my own will.
	Does that make sense?
	So you only do spells and say specifically that this spell is for personal motivation to do X thing and make it happen.
	Only if it comes from you.
	Wouldn't that just be self-recognition then?
	You can call it whatever you want.
	I mean, I don't know why it's such a big deal, to be honest.
	Oh, it doesn't.
	Well, I only would think it was a big deal if a person ordinarily would not think that it was okay to affect the will against other people's will.
	Didn't I just say in that tweet though that I wouldn't waste my time even trying to affect the will of him or said person, whoever else told me?
	Yeah, but that might be a different way that you view that situation than you do magic or witchcraft.
	Sure.
	So, yeah, I'm just, I'm untangling the ideas.
	So, no, it's not, it's not actually, though, an argument to say, well, no, I only do it as a manifestation of things which will come from me unless you're telling me you only make spells and craft them and pray to whatever the thing is that you're praying to for self-motivation to actualize things from your own personal perspective, which I doubt.
	I mean, again, it's meditation.
	It's just sitting there focusing my thoughts, pinpointing what I want to work on, manifesting, like you said.
	Do you ever manifest stuff you want?
	I mean, sure.
	Well, how do you manifest stuff you want without affecting external will?
	I don't care if I'm affecting external will.
	There we go.
	I don't care.
	That's what I was looking for.
	I don't give a shit if you have a will, which ordinarily would not be affected by me, that I affect to get the shit I want.
	But I'm not a psychopath.
	What if?
	Not a sociopath.
	Like, what if we were to take this on like a positive note, though?
	Because when people meditate, oftentimes it's with good intentions to impact others and to impact their will.
	You know what I mean?
	So what she's talking about is different than meditation, though.
	But hang on, but I want to engage directly with what you're saying, because you're making a good point, right?
	What if the will I have is positive on somebody else?
	So let me give you a demonstration of how I think that you wouldn't really believe this, okay?
	So if you were to, let's say, do something horrible to your partner from their perspective, but from your perspective, you're only doing this thing as a way to be positive.
	It's helping them in some way.
	But from their perspective, it was awful, right?
	An example of this might be something as simple as, I don't know, slipping their medication into their drink at night so that they were taking their medication, let's say.
	I think I'm coming from a more...
	Yeah, but hang on.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Right?
	To engage with this directly, I would like to know: isn't it also true that if somebody doesn't want their will affected and you affect it even if your intention is positive, that you would still think that that was kind of fucked up or wrong in some way?
	Well, I suppose what I'm maybe because what I'm thinking more is like if you take it from a perspective, if you're looking from like a spiritual perspective and meditating, like I wouldn't, I'm not talking about slipping a pill in anyone's drink to help them out.
	I'm thinking about, like...
	No, I'm just giving you an example of how you can have a positive intention.
	Right.
	But your positive intention, if you are affecting the will of somebody else, right?
	Even from your perspective, I think you wouldn't think that was okay.
	Sure, yeah.
	I'm just thinking more about spiritual practice with meditation and like, but I don't, we don't really need to get into a whole like religious spiritual.
	I mean, that's fine.
	We can move it on from there.
	Yeah.
	We got more tweets.
	I love hurting men.
	Or sorry, you should say it in your own words.
	I love hurting men.
	Heart.
	Now, does this extend beyond the Findom?
	Like in a general sense, do you love hurting men?
	No, I mean, if I have a partner, I would never want to hurt him.
	No, what about you?
	It's not a partner, just men in general.
	I mean, if they're not getting into the kink, then no, I don't really like.
	I don't sit here and I'm like, hmm, I just want to hurt someone today.
	Like, again, this is kink-based.
	Didn't you say that you enjoy it?
	Like, you find it funny?
	Yeah.
	I do find it funny, but they're giving into the kink.
	I mean, this, this.
	But the tweet itself doesn't say anything about, like, here's an asterisk disclaimer.
	This is specifically about a kink.
	Your tweet lives on its own.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It does.
	And I mean, anyone that's looking at my account usually is within the community, so they would have an understanding of it.
	Like, Twitter profile, anybody could stumble upon your thing.
	I mean, even in your profile, there's no such asterisk or disclaimer that says, by the way, these are satirical, or this is only within the context of this kink.
	And even if, I mean, so you're not really disclaiming a way that you are talking about just all men in general.
	Because I don't have to disclaim.
	If you want to look at that tweet and get offended, that is on your own volition.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, I'm not sitting here being like, who am I going to hurt today?
	I mean, you don't think that that's an offensive thing?
	I mean, sure, it's offensive, but people say offensive shit every day.
	What if the rules were reversed?
	Like, what if it said, what if a guy tweeted, I mean, I love to hurt women.
	Then you, I mean, everyone has the ability to argue against something.
	If you feel that strongly, say something.
	And if you don't, whatever.
	Well, I'm just looking for a concession that it has absolutely nothing to do with your kink.
	And this is actually just how you genuinely view men.
	This is my kink.
	Your kink or your...
	It's not your kink, right?
	Well, I mean, like, I'm.
	You're just doing it for money.
	It has nothing to do with your sex.
	I mean, I'm into it in an extent of, like, it's a practice.
	Like, it's BDSM.
	Like, if you're in a DOM space or, like, for some, a sub-space, like, this is what you're into.
	But it doesn't mean you're into it all day, every day.
	Like, you leave, like, subs, they leave sub space where they work in the military.
	I have plenty of subs that have done, you know, pretty important, like, crazy jobs.
	You know what I mean?
	But it's not your kink.
	It's their kink.
	I mean, my kink is financial domination.
	I'm also into, you know, like the humiliation.
	Like, I enjoy humiliating men.
	think it's fun yeah so you derive sexual pleasure by saying things on twitter such as pull it up The last one.
	Yeah, the last one.
	I love hurting men.
	You derive sexual pleasure from either saying or doing those things.
	I mean, if the situation is like a submissive is like getting off to that, then yeah, I think it's hot.
	No, but you said it's your kink.
	So you're deriving pleasure simply by virtue of saying that.
	Yeah, I get pleasure from it.
	I get pleasure from tweeting like that.
	I think it's fun.
	like it so if somebody had a kink for example where they did because like i don't think you can explain away behavior purely and and here's the pretext or justification of a behavior It's a kink, it gives me sexual pleasure.
	There are certain things that can just be deemed objectively wrong.
	So like hurting animals.
	Would you agree that that's wrong?
	Yeah, that's right.
	What if somebody derives sexual pleasure from hurting animals?
	Then that's fucked up.
	How's this any different than you saying you like hurting men?
	Because they're men and men, a lot of men like hurting women.
	I'm not sure I totally follow there.
	What was hard to follow?
	Well, so your justification is: well, men do bad things, so I can also do bad things to perhaps even innocent men, because there's bad men out there who do bad things to conceivably innocent women.
	These aren't innocent men.
	They're coming to me for this.
	You know what I mean?
	Nobody came to you on your Twitter.
	That's just you putting it out into the evil.
	Well, yeah, it's called marketing.
	So then you don't actually believe it.
	No, she does believe it.
	I do believe it.
	It's her.
	So then it's not just marketing.
	I mean, it is marketing.
	I am marketing myself.
	I'm putting that out.
	So here, X person, X person.
	Hang on, hang on.
	This was...
	Wait, wait.
	She brought up...
	She brought up the kill shot here.
	So the logic is I do believe this.
	No, I don't.
	It's marketing.
	Okay, well, then it can't just be marketing if you do believe this.
	I said, I didn't say I don't believe it.
	I just said it's marketing.
	No, but you said that you enjoy it.
	And that you do enjoy it.
	I enjoy humiliating men.
	It's not just marketing, yeah.
	I mean, sure, you could call it not just marketing, but in that sense, where I'm tweeting something general like that, that's marketing.
	Okay, but you also believe it.
	Sure.
	Then it's not marketing.
	It's not, well, not just marketing, right?
	It's something you believe.
	Right, but then it's marketing your set of beliefs.
	Yeah, in a context of BDSM, I enjoy humiliating men, yeah.
	Not external this context?
	I mean, in my everyday life, I'm not going to go up to a man and be like, you're fucking ugly.
	Like, fuck you.
	Like, for no reason.
	Well, I mean, the evidence already exists.
	You post misandrist comments on Twitter.
	Is this.
	Sorry.
	Is this account, though, specific to that?
	Yeah, I don't use that account for anything.
	It's not like a personal account.
	You would consider it like a BDSM account.
	Yes, yeah.
	That it's labeled as that.
	I mean, that's a really easy way to try to like shield from what we're trying to get at here.
	But so when it comes to the marketing component, in the example I previously provided, where if somebody was sexually gratified by harming animals, if they just defended it while it's marketing, that still is not a defense to the abuse of animals.
	I mean, I don't co-sign the abuse of animals.
	I love animals.
	You're abusive men.
	Sure, I co-sign.
	Okay, well.
	Do you eat animals?
	Huh?
	Do you eat animals?
	I do, yeah.
	Can't hear that much about them.
	But so you're comparing, though.
	And maybe you're not.
	Maybe you're just comparing general belief system, but you're comparing hurting men to hurting animals, whereas hurting men in the context of sex is like a thing.
	You know what I mean?
	But is that not the comparison you're making?
	You're just making it like that's the personal preference.
	Actually, he's kind of going with what you're saying here.
	So Brian's, again, just trying to untangle the ideas.
	No, so to untangle it, is the idea here that this is just a character?
	She's just playing a character.
	And if you're just playing a character, fine, right?
	Okay, we can concede you're playing a character and that's all you're doing.
	But it seems every time we lean into is this just a character, we get, no, this is actually what I believe.
	I said it was a kink.
	I mean, obviously, you can call it a character if you want.
	I mean, there are men that I enjoy humiliating, like in person.
	Like, I was in Vegas about a month or two ago.
	Some guy tried to photobomb my picture.
	I said, get the fuck out of my fucking picture, bitch.
	Like, you know, I thought it was funny, and it was.
	Yeah, I mean, I could see that being funny to tell somebody to get the fuck out of your picture shot.
	Fine, sure.
	But what we're asking here: is this you or is this a character that you are playing?
	I would say it is a character 85% based on who I am.
	Okay.
	So then, I guess the last question, I'm going to try to give you the easiest out possible.
	So, if there was never money exchanged in hands again, right, would you do this for fun?
	Um, well, FinDom is my main kink, so it would depend, but no, I probably wouldn't give out free kink for no money.
	What's the fun in that?
	With a partner or something?
	Like, do you mean, personally, I wouldn't want to be partnered with someone like that?
	Yeah, I want to be partnered with someone that's confident.
	And that's a character.
	Then that's a character.
	Sure, it's wrong.
	I don't really care.
	Yeah.
	I'm going to kill shots on this side of the table tonight.
	I'm still not convinced that it's a character, though.
	I mean, I just think this is just your genuine self.
	Demeanor, yeah.
	I mean, I don't have to convince you.
	I mean, you can believe what you want to believe about me.
	There's plenty of people in my life that can attest to my great character.
	And I'm sure there's people that couldn't.
	Okay, next tweet.
	Let's close the doors, Nick.
	Maybe there wouldn't be a loneliness epidemic for men if they all knew their place as inanimate objects devoted to my financial pleasure.
	Okay Why the girls laughing at this Because it's just like a kind of outrageous statement to me.
	Yeah.
	That's kind of crazy.
	Sure.
	Call it crazy.
	Do you genuinely believe that's all that men are good for?
	It's just fun.
	I think it's situational.
	Yeah.
	Like, do you want a husband one day?
	Maybe.
	I haven't really decided on that yet.
	Oh, go ahead.
	Because honestly, like, realistically, if a man were to see that, all the tweets that you post up and you say, This is my job, he's just only going to use you just to have sex with you.
	That's it.
	He will never take you seriously.
	He will never give you children.
	He'll never give you the home that you want.
	I don't want children.
	So, you're saying that now.
	But once you get older, you're going to start to feel a lot more lonely when you start seeing all your friends, all your family settling down with their kids, with their dogs, their cats, their kids going to their sporting events, they're cheering their kids on.
	You're going to feel lonely.
	I won't because I can vicariously live through them, you know, be an aunt, whatever.
	Like, I don't need to have kids to feel fulfilled.
	That's what makes women feel the most fulfilled.
	That's not true.
	Like, that's your opinion.
	Like, when women meet up with each other, one of the first, especially if you're married and you have kids, how are the kids doing?
	I mean, I saw Mike at his basketball tournament.
	He did a great job.
	And then the guys will talk about whatever the guys want to talk about, but they always talk about kids.
	Whenever women meet up and they have families, that's what we talk about.
	Because kids make us feel happy.
	I want to be a mother one day.
	I don't ever not want to have children.
	I want to have a husband.
	I want to have all those things.
	That's just what's going to make us feel whole.
	That's literally the main two things.
	Okay, well, I have decided that I don't want children.
	I don't think it would make me feel whole.
	I'm happy with myself.
	I'm happy with what I do.
	And if a man decides to come along, which that's actually not true, there's plenty of women in this industry that are married, that are in happy, healthy relationships.
	And some of them do have kids.
	So, I mean, that's not true.
	There are childless cat ladies.
	It's going to be a different perspective for everyone.
	I mean, I think to say that what you think is just fact, that's what's going to make every woman feel fulfilled.
	That's just not true.
	And I mean, two things can be true at once.
	You can have your belief, I can have mine.
	You know what I mean?
	Nobody wants to die alone.
	I never said I was going to die alone.
	But if you don't have children, you don't have a man.
	You're going to die.
	By definition, you're going to die alone.
	You're not going to have anybody.
	Your parents are not going to be afraid of that.
	That's not true.
	I mean, nobody can't.
	I can agree with the children.
	Like, because you, like, on your dying bed, you want to see all that you created, the family that you created.
	You want to see your kids and your grandkids, them all surrounding you on your last moments.
	That's what, just like, you just, you just do.
	You don't want to be sitting there.
	That's what you want.
	You don't have to do this for me.
	Like, you don't ever want to have to be in that position.
	That's what you want.
	And I have plenty of great friends.
	Like, I also, I'm choosing not to be in a relationship.
	There's plenty of guys that I've been seeing that I've been like, hmm, don't really think I see a future with you.
	And like, that's on my own volition.
	Like, sure, have there been guys that like things haven't worked out with and it's kind of a whatever, like on their terms?
	Like, sure.
	But I'm just saying, I don't feel like I need to be with a man to feel fulfilled.
	And I know plenty of women that are in their 30s, 40s, 50s that don't have partners or children, and they're just fine.
	No, they're not.
	No, they're not.
	Those types of women are going to keep women like us, the younger women, in that position.
	They're not happy.
	They want to see other women unhappy just like them.
	I guarantee you, what they want is that man and the kids.
	They weren't able to get it because of their own bad decision making.
	What about lesbians?
	They don't want me.
	Yeah, but this is a podcast about straight couples.
	No offense to the gays.
	I mean, you guys do what you want, but at the end of the day, a man and a woman together, we create population.
	We create the economy.
	Two girls doing this, two guys doing this.
	That doesn't create population.
	It doesn't.
	This is like for straight people.
	No offense to gays.
	Should I not be on here then?
	I think it's like if you're creating fulfillment.
	I feel like it's in a different way.
	Can I ask if you've ever had a span of time where you haven't been searching for a relationship or wanting something and like genuinely just sat with yourself and figured out what you want?
	Yeah, I have.
	Plenty of times.
	How long was that?
	Like six months to a year, but I'm not seeking out a relationship right now.
	Again, I'm very happy by myself.
	I have some men that I talk to here and there, but I don't really place much importance upon them unless they prove to me that they are important.
	So, if you met a guy that was the one and he said, you need to take all that stuff down, you're not doing that anymore.
	Would you stop doing it?
	No.
	Okay.
	Wait, do you not?
	You said you don't place much importance on men.
	I mean, but removing it from the sort of micro level in terms of romantic prospects here, you would at least admit that on a societal level, and I'm not even talking for reproduction, that you very much need men.
	I mean, I guess if you want to get like scientific about it, sure, you need men to reproduce.
	No, I excluded reproduction.
	Okay, sorry, I missed that.
	So.
	I mean, I think that men are valuable in the sense that they provide.
	That's about it.
	What if they don't provide?
	Then they're not valuable in terms of money.
	They're not valuable to me.
	Well, but I'm not saying on the micro level.
	What do you mean by that?
	You're saying like large scale in society.
	So you're saying if a guy doesn't provide for me, like money, resources, right?
	Now they might be providing in some sort of way that you're not aware of.
	Okay.
	Well, okay, so men are unilaterally responsible for every bit of comfort and security that you're currently ungratefully enjoying.
	Then let me be ungrateful.
	I don't know what you want me to say.
	Like, I'm pretty firm in my beliefs.
	Okay, so are we going to get into like the if all men disappeared thing?
	Oh, we went last.
	So essentially, like everything that allows you to free everything that allows your life to be comfortable.
	Yeah.
	Men are unilaterally responsible for that.
	Yeah.
	Everything.
	Providing.
	Yeah.
	Well, I think when you say providing, you're talking about like a sort of direct financial compensation to you.
	Not really.
	I mean like providing, you know, a house to live in, provide, and I don't even mean that in the financial aspect.
	I think like building it, providing, you know, safe infrastructure, et cetera, et cetera.
	Okay, I suppose at least you acknowledge that.
	Let's do the next tweet.
	You're not a man.
	You're a hopeless, pathetic gooner under the spell of dominant brats.
	All Brat Summers.
	Is this directed at a specific person or just men in general?
	That might have been directed towards a specific person.
	I mean, I agree with that tweet.
	Like if you hire a dummy mommy, I think you're just a fucking gooner.
	Yeah, I think you're just a gooner at that point.
	Next.
	The only time I will ever be mean to another woman is if she disrespects me or someone I love.
	Baseless hate only brings you misfortune.
	Do you feel like that goes for everyone?
	Yeah, that goes for everyone.
	Kind of, yeah.
	You hate men?
	I mean.
	But you want them to provide for you?
	Hold on.
	You rely on men for money, but you hate them.
	I don't rely on men for money.
	I'm a bartender.
	That's literally your actual profession.
	No, that is a side gig.
	I'm a bartender.
	I provide for myself.
	What's the male versus female clientele at the bar?
	Honestly, men be drinking.
	There's plenty of women that come together.
	That's what I asked, though.
	Is it more men than women?
	No, I wouldn't do it anymore.
	No, I would say it's equal.
	I work in a restaurant.
	I understand.
	A lot of men drink.
	I mean, yeah, a lot of men don't drink, yeah.
	That was a good call out.
	But I do want to dive more into this.
	You said you hate men, kind of.
	Yeah, I mean, I think it's, again, situational.
	I mean, there's some men that I don't hate.
	I would say you're in my world with men, you're guilty until proven innocent.
	Did something happen?
	Is that why you have a certain amount of money?
	Yeah, because something must have happened.
	I mean, I don't, sure, something probably did happen.
	Because a woman, if men in your life have always treated you right or treated you kind, you wouldn't be thinking the way that you're thinking.
	You wouldn't even have the job that you have.
	Do you have any brothers?
	I do have a brother.
	I have an older brother, yeah.
	Do you hate him?
	No.
	Is his only worth to provide for you?
	No, he doesn't provide for me.
	He's my brother.
	I love him.
	So he has worth outside of providing for you?
	Yeah, he's my brother.
	What about your father?
	Same thing.
	He's my father.
	So he has value outside of just every other man except your immediate family.
	They're not valuable unless they're providing for you.
	They're not valuable until they prove to me that they're valuable.
	By providing for you.
	Sure, it could be providing for me, yeah.
	What are the other ways they could prove it?
	No, actually, I think it's just providing.
	Right.
	Not support?
	I mean, I don't really look to men for support.
	I have plenty of women in my life.
	Okay, well.
	They're supporting your, you know, if you need to buy groceries, they're supporting your habits with food and all that.
	I mean, they're paying for everything.
	They're supporting everything.
	But they're not.
	I just said that that's supplemental income.
	I mean.
	But you even said a couple minutes ago you wouldn't stop your profession, even if a good man came into your life.
	You need those simp-ass men, those weak-ass dudes, to pay your rent, to feed you, to clothe you.
	I do.
	Well, you know what's funny is that I enjoy the community.
	Like, I have friends in the community.
	I enjoy the community.
	You don't respect those men.
	But there's other women in that community that I really respect and I enjoy.
	I don't date those women.
	No, but they're my friends.
	And your friends are.
	You know, as you get older.
	No, you're 26.
	I was going to say, as you get older, you're going to drop a lot of your old friends.
	No, my.
	You're stuck.
	I have plenty of friends that I've been friends with for like 10 plus years.
	And they support what you're doing right now.
	Yeah.
	They don't see anything wrong with it.
	They don't.
	They love it.
	Maybe you shouldn't.
	Those aren't real friends.
	I'm sorry, girl.
	No, they're real friends.
	What you're doing is not something that you would actually show to your parents.
	Hey, my mom.
	My mom and dad, look at what I'm doing.
	I made this guy punch himself in the ball.
	My mom knows about this stuff.
	There's no way you're actually happy with that.
	I wouldn't be happy with that.
	I'm very happy.
	No.
	I've done music videos that I shouldn't have done.
	I'm not happy with.
	I mean, let's be real.
	We're not all happy with the things and the choices that we've done in our lives.
	I mean, sure, I've stolen from Walmart in the past.
	You're not happy with what you're doing.
	You know, you're not.
	There's no way.
	I'm pretty happy.
	There's no way.
	Do you ever wake up just tired of hating men?
	Like, that must be exhausting.
	No.
	I wake up pretty fulfilled.
	I have a question.
	Do you think that part of why you're single or have like a harder time dating men is because of what you do?
	I never said I have a hard time dating.
	Do you say it hasn't worked out or like it hasn't been the one that you're looking for?
	Yeah, because I haven't.
	But do you think it's because of the kind of men that you attract?
	Yeah.
	I mean, sure, I might attract some shitty men, as all of us probably have.
	But no, I've attracted some really great men.
	Like, and it just hasn't worked out.
	What?
	Time, place, like, there's timing is everything, you know?
	Are they okay with what you do?
	Yeah.
	No, they're not.
	They would have wiped you if they were okay with it.
	I don't want to be wiped.
	I'm not out here being like, please choose me, pick me.
	Like, that's not like.
	It's not trying to be a pick me, though.
	It's a natural inclination to want to be.
	But that's natural for you.
	Like, I am, I've always been independent.
	Like, no, I mean, like, biologically speaking.
	Yeah.
	Biologically speaking, I don't want children.
	The pick-me's are smart because the pick-me's go, pick me.
	And then the women who are bitter about it are like, yeah, pick them.
	It's like, It seems like it works out really well for the Pikmies because not only are they the ones who get picked because they're Pikmies, but then the women who are always seething go, yeah, you need to pick them.
	So it's like it just works out double well for them.
	I mean, I'm not seething.
	I'm pretty like content.
	Okay.
	Next tweet.
	Oh, yeah.
	I love stealing a man's soul and his wallet.
	Heart.
	I mean, not sure if much explanation is needed on that one.
	I mean, that's like kind of regurgitated from the other type of shit.
	Mm-hmm.
	Next.
	Men fear me because I'm hotter, funnier, smarter, and more interesting than them and their wives.
	He, he, L-O-L.
	Oh, no, family and all that.
	Oh, yes.
	I mean, that's playing into the kink, honestly.
	Like, I won't even lie.
	Like, I'm not really into the home wrecking stuff, but I was playing into the kink that day.
	So you never willingly knew that you were messing with a guy that was married.
	I mean, a lot of these guys are probably married.
	That's not good.
	Okay.
	I'm literally, like, I can't help that.
	This is what they're into.
	And it's not really my like.
	You're choosing.
	I wouldn't even cross a curtain.
	I said, I can't help what they choose to do.
	I can help what I choose to do, and this makes me happy.
	It doesn't.
	It makes you happy seeing people with wives beat into their fetish and get cheating on their family.
	I never said that.
	And first of all, if their shit makes me happy, you're taking that out of context.
	Seeing implied in what you're saying.
	Yeah, I just said I wasn't into homewrecking.
	Wait, you have something?
	It looks like you were.
	No, it looked like you were about to talk.
	She said it's awesome.
	Oh, we got to give you a chance to talk here.
	Go ahead, say it.
	Say it.
	Even if it was already said.
	You can say it in German.
	How about that?
	Yeah.
	Say it into the mic and German?
	Yeah, say you're from Austria.
	You don't speak German?
	Of course I speak German.
	Say it in German.
	Can you say something?
	Yeah, just say it in German.
	Okay.
	Wait, I have to think.
	Or like Austrian.
	Wouldn't Austrian.
	Well, they speak German.
	I know they do, but isn't Austrian its own language too?
	I think it's in a different dialect.
	German too.
	Like Germany.
	I'm just asking.
	I don't know.
	Trying to get culture.
	Go ahead.
	Because she said that the men are looking for themselves, even if they are married, and they can do what they want, but they don't have to do it if they are married, but they should still say no to them.
	I 100% agree.
	Boom.
	Nice.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Next tweet.
	Next tweet.
	I think we did this one, but it helped it.
	Men are punched.
	Yeah, we saw that one.
	Yeah, we did that one.
	Did we?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	No.
	I think it was something similar, though.
	It was probably something exactly.
	That one was way too many.
	It was similar.
	Yeah.
	Next one then.
	I really have only been in the mood to play Fortnite and make men cry lately.
	Okay.
	And is it on the Fortnite part?
	Cool.
	Glad you do.
	You guys have something in common?
	Lots of Fortnite cars.
	It's kind of sad when you think about the fact that the patriarchy literally indoctrinates women to hate other women for being women.
	You look like a clown.
	The patriarchy.
	Is that the last tweet, Nick?
	I believe so.
	Okay.
	Just double check if it is.
	So while we get into the patriarchy stuff, and then we'll get into more actual dating stuff in a bit.
	It's related.
	It is.
	You know, the patriarchy has a lot to do with dating.
	Sure.
	So I asked earlier if you consider yourself a feminist.
	You said no.
	I wouldn't label myself as that.
	I'm sure I align with feminist values, yeah.
	Right, because you you oh my god, I'm having like a stroke tonight or something.
	I don't know what's going on.
	I'm out of it.
	You use a lot of feminist-coded language.
	Sure, yeah.
	Patriarchy, for example.
	So, what is the patriarchy?
	Actually, wait, before I have you answer that, I do want to ask everybody at the table.
	I'm all over the place tonight.
	I don't know what I didn't sleep well tonight yesterday.
	Oh, my.
	I'm all over the place today.
	So, just going around the table, do you consider yourself a feminist?
	I don't know.
	I guess.
	I feel like this is how I feel about it.
	People who say they're feminists and want equality always talk about how women should be like executives and CEOs and stuff, but like they don't consider that there's low jobs that they should also have if we truly want equality.
	Like, ain't no girl out there flashing her titties in a park for equality.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Like, you got a lot of public flashers that are dudes.
	Like, I'm interested in seeing a woman, you know, take that stand.
	So, well, I mean, a ton of women do march in the nude for women's rights.
	That's not what I'm saying, though.
	I'm saying, like, public flasher, public masturbator, like, where are we at?
	You know, it's a joke.
	It's a joke.
	Chill.
	Chill out.
	It's a joke.
	Absolutely.
	Sure.
	I guess I'm a feminist.
	I don't know.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And the greater side.
	Make me laugh, funny lady.
	Well, I can't get a word in.
	So, yes, feminists?
	Sure, yeah.
	Okay.
	I think you said no.
	Rock and roll.
	What about you?
	No.
	No.
	Absolutely not.
	Oh, whoops.
	Did not mean to press that.
	No.
	No.
	Okay.
	All right.
	But you did mention the patriarchy, so while we go into that, what is the patriarchy?
	The system of beliefs held by men who are, you know, overly in power to basically just set their standard of what society should be.
	Mm-hmm.
	Based off their beliefs of, you know.
	Are they in power because they're men?
	I mean, sure, probably.
	And so what percentage of men are in power?
	A lot.
	I don't know.
	That's a very specific question.
	But I mean, do you think it might have more to do with like their class or status than the fact that they have a penis?
	No, I think it usually starts with them having a penis.
	I think they will get ahead in life a lot easier if they're men.
	No.
	No.
	Way hard.
	Men actually have to work to become something.
	We are just, we're just here.
	Like, to be quite honest with you, we could get into clubs without having to pay for shit.
	We could get bottle service without having to pay for anything.
	But can we get paid the same as men?
	We do.
	If we didn't, that'd be an issue.
	What are you talking about?
	Women Women do not pay as much as you can.
	If a woman cannot do the exact same amount of work as a man, you can't expect that woman to get paid the same.
	If a woman construction worker and a man construction worker, we're working right now together.
	The man is carrying 100 pounds of weight, the woman can only carry 50.
	Why the hell would that woman get paid the same?
	What about a man who's an executive and a woman who's an executive?
	Is she putting in the same amount of work?
	Yeah.
	I wouldn't, I mean, let's be real here.
	If that woman is an executive and let's say she gets pregnant, should she deserve the same amount of money as the man that's actually still going to be at the work at work?
	Besides, you're at the mercy of the firm's argument, which is if it were true that what you're saying is true, that women who are not in these construction jobs and this type of thing, but rather are in kind of comfy AC-related jobs like the men and they're getting paid less than them, then why wouldn't a man create an entire firm of women and then destroy their competition because they're now paying their staff way less?
	Yeah, why not?
	But am I wrong that women get paid less than men?
	Because I don't think I am.
	I think that's pretty common.
	Yeah, but if that is the case, right?
	So this is what I'm questioning is the basis for this case, right?
	If it were the case that that were true, which it is.
	If it is, then why doesn't a woman even or a man just hire a firm of these women and pay them less than the firm that are hiring men because they would make a killing with an all-woman staff?
	You tell me.
	I don't know.
	I'm not a dude.
	I'm not making that decision.
	If I hired a firm full of women, you bet I would pay them just as much as I'm like, I'm not going to pay them less.
	That seems backward.
	But you would think a man would, right?
	Potentially.
	I mean, I don't know who's been paying us less.
	I don't think it's women.
	Well, then, if it's men, then why wouldn't a man just have a firm of all women and pay them less if they get the same amount of work out of them?
	I mean, that's a question for a dude.
	I can't answer that.
	Why couldn't you answer that?
	Why wouldn't a man have a firm of all women and pay them less?
	I don't know.
	I mean, because then they would destroy the competition who's paying the men more, right?
	Okay.
	So, I mean, why don't we see that then?
	Because it's not the case that men are making more in those positions than women are.
	If it was the case that you could pay women less to do the same job, then why wouldn't you just make a firm and pay all of them way less for the same job?
	So, you're talking about the wage gap, right?
	So, why don't you tell us what your sense of the wage gap is?
	Because there's these numbers that get thrown around.
	Women make 77 cents on the dollars compared to men.
	Is that what you're talking about when you say the wage gap?
	Yeah.
	So, what is the number that you think it is?
	It's around that.
	Like 80 cents a month.
	Something like that.
	And then women of color make even less.
	Yeah, Nick, we have something on that too.
	So, two things, Nick.
	The pay scale website on the wage gap.
	And then there's also, just do Google PayScale, wage gap.
	And then also in the infographics folder, there is the, hold on.
	There's the wage folder, and in it, you mentioned women.
	You mentioned in women of color.
	So, Nick, you're going to pull up just, it's in the wage gap folder, the Asian women one.
	But it's not number two, it's the one in the middle with the more straight, the straight lines.
	Do the Asian women first, then we'll do Pescale.
	Okay, so you mentioned women of color.
	Actually, Asian women out-earn white men.
	This is the median weekly earnings of full-time workers, white men versus Asian women.
	That's two minority categories.
	Higher-paying jobs, is what you're saying.
	No, across the board.
	Am I doing a comparison to comparison?
	So it's my understanding of how this is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
	They just take all the earnings of men, all the earns, all the earnings of white men compared to all the earnings of Asian women.
	Now, these are all full-time workers, mind you.
	Now, the wage gap that you referenced earlier, that encompasses all the money that men bring in and all the money women bring in.
	So, it could be making a comparison of a woman who has a part-time job as a parista.
	And part of that data is also comparing it to men who work on oil rigs who get hazard pay.
	And then, where are you guys pulling your stuff from?
	Nick, you can pull up Payscale.
	Payscale is a fairly, it's actually pretty, I think it's actually pretty left-leaning.
	It's a fairly reputable company.
	Can you scroll down, Nick?
	There should be like a circle chart.
	Scroll down.
	Okay, can you scroll in on that one?
	You might even be able to right-click and I don't know if it's an image.
	The gender pay gap in 2024.
	So, the uncontrolled gender pay gap, which is what you're talking about, women earn 83 cents for every $1 earned by men.
	Well, this is where you're not factoring, you're not controlling for anything.
	So, it's all the money that women make, all the money that men make.
	But it's not factoring in for the fact that, for example, men, all men collectively work more hours than women.
	They're more likely to work hour or excuse me, overtime.
	They're more likely to relocate.
	They're more likely to work hazard pay, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
	Well, you pull it back up real quick.
	The controlled gender pay gap.
	So, this measures median salary for men and women with the same job and qualifications.
	All men and all women.
	All men.
	Well, it's same job, same qualifications.
	So, if you actually control for each of these things and you start removing these variances like hours worked, different job field, different choices, it shrinks down to 99 cents.
	It's still the right, but it's, I mean, it's still.
	You make a penny less than a man.
	Man, that's rough.
	But let me ask you this.
	Just out of curiosity, I always wondered this question.
	Even if it were true that men who owned firms of some type or another did hire women at a lesser wage than they hired men, who the fuck cares?
	Why is that even a problem?
	If they're just like, I just don't want these fucking women to make as much as the men that I hire, why is that actually a problem?
	I mean, it's a moral problem.
	What is the moral problem?
	I mean, that dude's like a piece of shit.
	Why?
	Why would it make him a piece of shit?
	Because he doesn't value women as much as he values men.
	He doesn't value their labor as much.
	But if it's the same labor?
	Even if it's the same labor, he just doesn't value it as much.
	Well, then I think that says something about how he values women.
	Yeah, but how would it actually be immoral?
	Like, why would it be immoral, for instance, if you own a business, you said, right?
	Why would it actually be immoral for you to be like, I just don't want to fucking hire men at all?
	I just don't want to even fucking hire them because I don't like their faces.
	Why would that even be actually immoral or problematic?
	I think it's problematic because you're not considering different perspectives that can contribute to the work that you're doing.
	But it's yours.
	Why do you need to consider other perspectives?
	Like, fuck the other perspectives.
	It's your shit, right?
	Like, if you found a business, right, and you built it up for 10 years and you're going to start hiring people, and you're like, I don't fucking like women.
	I just don't like them.
	I don't like them.
	So I'm not going to hire any.
	I was thinking about this and I was trying to figure out what's actually immoral about that.
	I mean, I guess I just think it speaks to like the person's values, essentially, like that they don't.
	John Smith donated $200.
	Hey, John, thank you, man.
	The reason these feminists and angry women are so upset is because they don't have a man to tell them to calm down and relax.
	Are you going to do it, John Smith?
	Calm down.
	Calm down.
	Relax.
	Oh, my God.
	Relax.
	I think I just came.
	What the fuck?
	Oh, my God.
	Anyway, what the?
	Yeah, so I was just wondered if you could elucidate me why you would actually think that that was immoral.
	I get that you're not going to be able to do that.
	You're saying, I don't like women.
	I don't want, like, that's such a, like, I don't think that that's like good moral standards.
	It kind of relates to all the shit that we've been talking about with her and how she wants to hurt men and shit, right?
	Like, it doesn't feel so far away from that.
	Yeah, I mean, maybe not, but let us assume that a man goes, you know, a woman's labor, right, it's worth as much as a man's insofar as the labor she actually does and the labor he's actually doing is about the same.
	But they just cause so many fucking problems, right?
	They cause all sorts of issues.
	They complain a lot.
	They're always at the HR department because they got too flirtsy with a guy at work.
	They're just a pain in the fucking ass to deal with.
	They're just a pain in the ass.
	And if I have an all-male workforce, I don't have to deal with any of those fucking problems.
	But you have to have a lot of things.
	That seems like it's a really justified and reasoned way.
	Are you saying that all women are like that and that women are just causing problems in the workplace?
	Because I don't think that's going to let them work with that.
	Most women aren't like that.
	Okay.
	But I'm going to assume that there's enough of them that are that you're still gambling.
	And if it's even 20%, I can understand the rationale and could not say it was immoral for a person to be like, yeah, I don't want to fucking deal with all that.
	I literally just don't want to deal with it.
	To not hire them.
	Yeah, to just not hire them.
	Yeah.
	I have my own business.
	If I, I mean, I don't plan on hiring anybody.
	I like just working for myself, but I could see that if someone was like, oh, I just don't want to hire them.
	I don't think that that's an issue.
	But if it was like, oh, I'm going to hire them.
	They're doing the same work, but I'm paying them less because I think that they're doing more complaints.
	Like, you know, I don't know.
	I think that, sorry, I lost my train of thought.
	But I just don't think that like all women are just inherently like going to cause problems or like these complaints.
	Okay.
	That's why I wanted to.
	100% agree.
	But let's say it's 10%, which is a lot.
	That's a lot.
	Can you just fire the one who is?
	That's like one in 10 women that you hire.
	Well, but the problem's already caused, right?
	The issue is already there.
	And you're like, ah, you know, in this factory, right, I can have a hot dog put, or a guy put the fucking hot dogs on the little pallet and then it goes up, or I can have a woman do it.
	They do it about as fast.
	They do about as much work, but I never have to deal with the.
	There's a little bit of inherent sexism, though, in that.
	Like, I think there's like a little bit of inherent sex.
	Yeah, but my question is not whether or not it's sexist.
	Okay.
	My question would be, who cares if it is?
	Why would that be a problem to be sexist under those circumstances?
	I just don't know.
	So in other words, sexism itself, I'm not sure, is immoral in and of itself if it's indicating a behavior that you're trying to avoid.
	So for instance, wouldn't it be sexist?
	Well, I'll explain.
	Wouldn't it be sexist, for instance, for you at night to walk across the street if a group of men are moving towards you?
	Oh my God.
	Yes, because I would not walk.
	I would not change what I was doing if I saw a group of women.
	If I saw a group of men, I would be a million times more likely that I'm going over the moment.
	So are you sexist?
	I think it's just a matter of time.
	Are you sexist?
	Well, for my own protection in that case, I would say yes.
	For your own protection, in that case, yes, I will be sexist.
	Aren't we saying the exact same thing?
	Although mine could be life or death, yours is not a life or death.
	Are those different?
	Or, right, it could be the life and death of your business.
	And yeah, that's basically to the financial ruinations, your life, family, everything else.
	I agree that maybe the stakes are slightly higher from the physical aspect, but the principle is the same.
	I'm sexist towards this group because even though most people in this group aren't going to do this, enough of them will that I feel like crossing the street probably a good idea.
	And do you think men would blame you for doing that?
	No.
	Fuck no.
	They're like, go across the street.
	We know that there's predatory men.
	Fuck yeah.
	So why would men get blamed for not wanting to hire women per day?
	That's my thing.
	That's why I'm like, is it immoral?
	I have a question.
	You said men do the like you're saying that when you say 10 or 5% of women cause problems in the workplace.
	We're just assuming it.
	For the sake of the hypothetical.
	Would you not say the same thing about men?
	No.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	What about the men that can't keep it in their pants that work in?
	Yeah, yeah.
	But are you going to have that problem if you have an all-male workforce?
	But you're saying, but what if it's an all-woman workforce?
	Yeah, but if it's an all-woman workforce, then you have caddy backstabbing fucking all sorts of others.
	You don't have the, oh, my dick is bigger than yours.
	Like, I sell more than you.
	Then let's test this, okay?
	Do you think that at all female private schools versus all male private schools, there's more complaints from the students who are men or more complaints from the students who are girls?
	I just.
	If you had to guess.
	Probably the girls.
	Wait.
	Wait.
	Why do you think that?
	I think that girls are also just more vocal about it, though, their complaints.
	So then they're going to cause more.
	So wait a second.
	So if I have a workforce of men who have complaints but shut their fucking mouths about them versus a workforce of women who have complaints and don't, which one would I want to hire?
	But I think the all-woman workforce and all-men workforce have equal amount of problems.
	They're just different.
	Yeah, no.
	If you're saying that one of them's complaining constantly and the other one's not complaining constantly, that's already a huge problem.
	Women necessarily complain that they're not in the workforce.
	I think there's some level of professionality that women have when it comes to working that they're just not going to be sitting there complaining 24-7.
	Really?
	Well, let me ask you a question.
	A competent woman, yes.
	Let me ask you a question.
	And give me your honest answer.
	Okay.
	Let's assume you had two different offices that you could choose from.
	One office employed 300 women.
	The other office employed 299 men and you.
	Okay.
	299 men plus you.
	Which office would you prefer to work at?
	Which one's better?
	Are you saying they're equal?
	They're equal.
	They give you the same pay, right?
	I don't think it really matters.
	I mean, at that point, it would be which one I would be happier with.
	Yeah, which one do you think you'd be happier with?
	Depends on who the boss is.
	The boss is a man in one in both cases?
	No, in the other one, it's a woman.
	I don't really think there's a difference.
	No, you wouldn't care?
	I wouldn't care.
	There would be no preference.
	I mean, maybe if, like, the male one, because I'd feel like, oh, you know, I'm kind of special.
	But, like, that's it, because I'm the only woman that was hired.
	Like, I'm, you know.
	But, like.
	And you don't think that that would have anything to do with the fact that there would be way less caddy bullshit, backstabbing, bitching, whining, complaining, telling you all about how it is.
	The second she walks out of the room to you, and you have drama clicks all over the place.
	I don't disagree with that.
	What I'm saying, though, is men have equal issues.
	No.
	Just in different ways.
	Here's what happens on a girl.
	If you're one woman, I would feel way more comfortable with a bunch of women.
	I would feel more women.
	I would be more motivated.
	Here's what happens on a construction site, right?
	Or something like this.
	They're all fucking exhausted from working their asses off, and they don't have time to whine and complain and click and do all that shit.
	They just don't.
	Inside of office spaces, sales spaces, things like that, yeah, there's a bit of that for men.
	But to say it's anywhere on par like it is for women, you talk to women who are in these sales jobs, and they're like, oh my god, these fucking bitches are awful.
	They're backstabbers, they're connivers, they click up.
	If you're not part of the click, they, you know, they're just horrible, insufferable.
	I think that's like putting a very big stigma on women.
	I don't think, especially in a woman.
	It is putting a very big stigma on, but the question is whether or not the stigma is deserved.
	I think, no.
	I think, especially that's like one thing that I said, like, I would say I disagree with the podcast that the women that are selected to usually be on this podcast are somewhat kind of like that and represent a different kind of like the more problematic side of women, which I agree a large majority of women can be problematic.
	Have you ever talked to a hairstylist before?
	I mean, yes.
	Have they ever told you what it's like to work in the beauty industry?
	I got my hair done three days ago.
	She was talking to me about how all the sororities girls come in and they talk shit all on each other and she just hears it.
	All day.
	All day.
	Every day.
	I'm not disagreeing with that.
	Yeah, but that's the thing, that's why the stigma exists.
	The stigma, hang on, the stigma exists specifically because of the application.
	So what I'm saying to you is: if she's willing to cross the street based on her sexism, there's this low percentage of men who are actually predatory.
	In fact, almost every man you walk by in the middle of the night is not going to do anything to you.
	Do I blame you for crossing the street though?
	Not really.
	Not really.
	Because I can understand, I can rationalize in my brain why a woman would want to do that.
	And I'd recommend to my wife to do it.
	She's walking down the street in the middle of the night under some circumstance, cross the street.
	Do you have a wife?
	Totally rational.
	Yes, I have a wife.
	Totally rational to me.
	Okay.
	But it's equally rational to me then to say, okay, if I had a firm, right, and there was some inbuilt sexism based around the stigma, would it be rational for me to only want to hire men?
	I think it's rational to say I only would want to hire men.
	I don't think it's immoral that a person would move down that thought pattern of I'll only hire ex based on social stigmas, which can cause serious problems to their business for their own protection.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Yeah.
	I don't even disagree that the stigma is not partially deserved.
	It is.
	I'll be the first to admit it.
	Like, all of us have gone through high school.
	You know what girls are like there.
	It's not like it's partially deserved, but I think it's.
	It's that mean girl shit, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't disagree with it, but I also think that there's a good majority of girls that aren't like that.
	There's plenty of men with the mean girl mentality, too.
	I mean, I work with, I would say, equally men and women, and usually it's the men that are starting the problems.
	And all the women that I work with have acknowledged this.
	Like, we're all really, really cool.
	We have our problems every now and then.
	But I would say, like, mostly it's the men that are causing problems.
	And they are just equally as catty.
	And maybe you're basing this off a standard of men pre-social media, perhaps.
	But I think with the way that men are socialized today, a lot of them are mean girls.
	I think it's also a big thing is that men probably have less problems with men than women have with women, if you get what I mean.
	Totally agree.
	Like men.
	So anyway, so that would be a justification for stigma, though.
	Yeah, I don't disagree, but also in a workplace where it's men and women, I feel like there'd be less problems than having a full male staff or a full woman staff.
	Well, then answer me this: Do you think that there's less problems socially if you send kids to an all-boys school and an all-girls school than if you put them in a co-ed school?
	I think co-ed schools have less problems.
	They don't.
	Well, it doesn't non-co-ed schools have less problems.
	That's also because they're private schools, more funding and more the public schools tend to have a lot of people.
	You have private co-ed schools you can compare it to.
	It would be different kinds of drama.
	Different kinds of problems.
	Okay, let's go through what you think these different problems would be.
	I think women tend to, yes, have more caddy drama and play more of a mental game with each other, but men are more likely to have physical altercations over something like stupid.
	Exactly.
	And women like it, I think that's girls like to be caddy.
	They like the drugs.
	I totally agree.
	So men enjoy being violent with each other.
	Totally agree.
	Can't women like being conniving catty bitches with each other.
	Couldn't agree more.
	Okay, I'm all.
	I think catty bitches is a little bit of a damn thing.
	Yeah, that's a little extra.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	I want to make a point.
	What's the difference between me being violent towards a man, but men being violent towards each other and making it okay?
	They're both bad.
	They're okay.
	Fair enough.
	But why is that?
	Like, you're saying, like, men just like this shit.
	And you're justifying it.
	Dads are violent by consent.
	Yeah.
	There's a reason I think that the UFC exists.
	And as long as they're violent by consent.
	It's all good with you, right?
	True.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You can do whatever you want.
	As long as it's by consent.
	So, anyway, the point is, though, is that if I'm looking at the standard of understanding why you would want to cross the street, you'd have that innate sexism, which is put in you, that this person potentially could harm me greatly.
	Then all I'm saying is that I understand why it is that men would have the same exact feeling, the opposite.
	This woman could destroy me.
	I understand why men would adopt the, I don't go around women without another man or another woman present who I trust, or I don't go to private lunches with women unless there's a woman with me.
	Or I don't go around women without my wife.
	I totally understand that.
	It makes a lot of sense to me.
	It does make more sense to me now.
	I mean, I guess it was not something I had ever thought of.
	Yeah.
	But having this conversation, it definitely is like there's things connecting in my brain that I'm like, ooh, that is really interesting.
	And like, not the perspective I've thought of before.
	I think it makes sense.
	Yeah, once you absent the propaganda and you just have the conversation.
	Yeah, it's interesting.
	Yeah, it's interesting.
	Yeah, it is interesting.
	I think as a woman who has broken out of that, like caddy, like, because I was, I was, I would say, like, as in high school, I would like say that I was one of those meeting girls.
	I was trying to eat the top of this food chain, whatever.
	And since growing out of that, leading to the-super highly competitive, too, right?
	Oh, so competitive, guys.
	I don't think I won.
	But like, I went through a lot of growth, especially in my early 20s.
	I like moved away, you know, and it's like I went on a very like spiritual path of growth out in nature.
	And like, so hearing that, like, it is disheartening only the fact that, like, I don't believe that in a workplace I would cause problems.
	Like, let's say that would be like my dream job, but like someone is only going to be hiring men.
	I'd be like, no way, but like, I promise I'm not going to cook.
	Like, I wish that I would still be able to get that chance to prove myself.
	Sure.
	You know, that's the only thing.
	But I do understand what you're saying.
	Yeah, I understand.
	But that would be the same way that the men walking down the street who were just walking over talk to you.
	He's like, I just want to prove to you.
	I just want to prove to you that I'm not a horrible predator.
	Yeah, you got your nace ready, everything else, right?
	But I was just trying to prove, and you would rather go, I could let you prove it and take the risk.
	Right.
	Or I can cross the fucking street.
	That's really interesting.
	That's really interesting.
	That was actually, it was fantastic.
	Yeah, menu.
	Right.
	Andrew.
	Yeah, two things really quick, then we'll get into the next topic.
	Nick, could you pull up the view counter?
	We haven't done that in a while.
	Guys, there are how many we got?
	We got 7,600 watching on YouTube.
	Almost 10K total.
	So, guys, if you're enjoying the video on YouTube, like the video.
	And if you're watching on Twitch, drop us a follow and a like sub at twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow and a prime sub.
	Guys, it's been 15 minutes since our last prime sub.
	If you guys could drop a oh my god, they are on fire.
	Look at these follows.
	Yo.
	Oh my fire.
	You're Ezekiel.
	Thank you, man.
	Big live thing for the prime.
	Manic thing for the prime.
	Guys, I think the Prime is bugged.
	Can somebody try to like, you know how you used to like hit a TV and get it to work?
	I think we need somebody to test out a prime and see if the prime sub is gonna work.
	I think it's bugged, boys.
	So if somebody can drop a little prime, certainly with oh, they're Cajun Tater.
	Thank you.
	You fixed it, Cajun.
	And then look at all these.
	You fixed it for Cougillon, Cuijon, and Screamin' Bullets.
	Thank you guys for the Primes.
	Appreciate it, guys.
	That may be Cajun.
	Son of Vulcan could be.
	Thank you, Vulcan.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you guys for the primes.
	Appreciate it.
	What's that?
	We have to shamelessly plug.
	Yeah, we'll do a little mention.
	Guys, debateuniversity.com.
	Shameless plug.
	DebateUniversity.com.
	The program is called Verbal Combat.
	There's 80 plus videos, about six hours of content.
	If you want to learn how to become a master debater, you need to get this program.
	You need to get this program.
	Three different instructors, mostly headed by.
	It's a funny play on words.
	Yeah.
	Mostly headed by Andrew Wilson.
	And if you want to learn how to debate like Andrew, you should definitely check out this program, Debate University.
	It'll help your arguments in all aspects of your life and also show you how to think correctly when you're having engaging conversations with people and you're challenging their presuppositions, the pillars from which they look for why they have their presuppositions to begin with and how you can untangle those concepts so you can get to the heart of what it is you want to talk about.
	That's why we had such a great exchange this evening is because we were able to both question the pillars from which we're operating from.
	All right.
	Here I'm going to put that in the chat.
	Good job, by the way.
	All right.
	Not you.
	You did terrible.
	But she did good.
	Oh, no.
	All right.
	Maybe she needs the course.
	She could have laughed.
	You know, she could have laughed.
	I think a total icebreaker.
	I think a good transition point here, based off of the previous conversation, here's the scenario.
	Would you rather be so?
	Here's the scenario, right?
	Would you rather be alone in a forest with a random man or a random bear?
	But so you get randomly dropped.
	You get randomly dropped.
	Spawned.
	Randomly spawned.
	Spawned.
	Good word.
	You get randomly spawned in a forest.
	And it's either a totally random bear or a totally random man.
	So the man, why is he in the forest not really part of the equation?
	Why is he alone, not part of the equation?
	Just a random man plucked from the United States.
	Only the U.S. only the U.S. bear the other thing in the forest.
	Or a bear.
	So you pick between a random bear.
	I feel like a bear would be cute.
	Or a random bear.
	So go ahead.
	What's your question?
	How big?
	Into the mic.
	How big is this bear?
	Random.
	Randomly.
	So it could be like a cub.
	Adult bears or a bear.
	Cubs are still bad.
	No, no, no.
	Hold on.
	It's going to be an adult man or adult bear.
	But it could be a black bear.
	It could be a grizzly bear, brown bear.
	Polar.
	Polar bear.
	Sure.
	It can even be a polar bear.
	So, starting with you, which do you pick?
	Man.
	Okay.
	I'll probably go with a man, yeah.
	As someone who goes out on solo trips out in nature, I feel that I could see both scenarios.
	You guys all know Pocahontas, okay?
	And Brother Bear.
	No, I really would want to try and connect with the bear, though, on a soul level.
	I really would do that.
	You guys are giving me the looks like I'm the craziest person in my life.
	I do think.
	Actually, I've heard of this before.
	Let me see if I get it correct.
	Okay.
	You can picture things in your head and then tell that to the animal.
	Like, okay, no.
	Like a dolphin, for instance, perhaps.
	Like telepathy, you mean?
	More like just obviously, you can't communicate with words, you know what I'm saying?
	But like being in the same entry, like it's like we all talk to our dogs, you know what I'm saying?
	Like my dog can understand things, not every word that I'm saying, but like me and my dog have a connection.
	I'm saying I would like for humans to like rebuild our connection with these other animals.
	That like that would be my reasoning for being like, that could be interesting.
	But like in terms of survival, I would pick a male, a male human.
	But hang on, because you brought up something else interesting.
	I got to ask about.
	Yeah.
	Do you feel like you can have such a connection with an animal that the animal can actually, in a way, speak to you?
	Like bond.
	Yeah.
	I believe so.
	I believe I have a bond with my dog.
	It's never been with words or her barking, you know what I'm saying?
	But like I believe that there is a love between.
	Yeah, do you think that through this type of medium of communication that you can create consent between animals and humans?
	Like consent, as in like, please don't kill me, bear, like that?
	Sure.
	No, only because, let's say, a cub comes along or like something, like as soon as their instincts kick in, that animal could then obviously turn and be like, I'm protecting my cub and kill me.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Even if you've built up this.
	I just like being around animals.
	I want to witness them more and be on nature more.
	That would be more.
	So you can't actually talk to them through telepathy, or can you?
	No.
	I think you can connect, though, soul to soul.
	I think I could look in an animal's eyes and like feel their essence.
	I believe that.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm even willing to grant that, but I'm just not sure what that means exactly.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	Like, even with trees, though, like, trees are alive.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You could be touched by a tree or a field, and like you can get an essence or like a the only word I can think of is like a vibe, you know what I'm saying?
	Like, just like, wow, or like be touched by something.
	Well, I understand you can partake in the essence of something.
	Yeah.
	I get what that means.
	That's that's a religious, deeply, religiously rooted concept.
	Yeah.
	I understand that.
	Yes.
	It's what that means exactly.
	Like, what can you do with that?
	Right.
	Can you make the tree grow different ways?
	No.
	Oh, no.
	No, no, I think it can transform your own, like, your own self-awareness, though, or your awareness of your consciousness next to other consciousness, you know what I'm saying?
	Or like, just like, I've had deeply profound experiences in nature, just in the desert.
	I'm by myself, I'm sitting on a rock, and I'm like becoming acutely aware of my life.
	What are you doing?
	Drugs, the tree.
	No.
	No.
	No psychedelics ever.
	Never done any psychedelics.
	Oh, I have.
	I knew you did.
	I went, yeah.
	Did you see the DMT elves?
	I've never done DMT.
	I did shrooms once when I was 18, and that was like a crazy.
	Yeah, that was a whole thing.
	And then I micro-doched on shrooms a few times, but like these experiences were all my solo trips out in nature from summer time.
	Sorry, I do have to psychotech.
	I do have to interrupt.
	Let's get back to the question.
	That's my fault.
	That's okay.
	That's okay.
	Yeah.
	Sorry, what was the bear or man?
	Oh, that question.
	Yeah.
	So I'm going to go.
	For survival, I'm going to go with a male human.
	I would say men.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Because I love to talk to random people, and it would never be boring when it was with a stranger.
	I'm going to go man too.
	Same man.
	Hmm.
	All man.
	Nobody said bear.
	Because, like, even a man, you can defend yourself against a man to some extent.
	You're not defending yourself against a bear.
	I was actually thinking about that this very thing you just said because we have so many people answer man.
	But the question is random man, random bear, right?
	But if you had a random man, actually the chances that you would get a man who is really physically fit and in the prime of their life would not be very high.
	Very slim.
	Yeah, it would not actually be very high.
	And the chances that you would get a bear that can kill you is way higher.
	Way higher.
	I was also thinking from the means like, I'm taller than most men.
	Like I feel like I'd be the bandit.
	The chances that you would get randomly selected, since you have an aging population, which far outnumbers now the non-aging population, that the chance that you would get a man prime of his life, physically fit, and wanted to do you harm for no particularly good reason is super low.
	Like that would be super low.
	Whereas with the bear, the chances that if you're in a confined space with a bear, confined even a forest.
	Yeah, you could be dinner.
	Maybe you could vibe with the bear.
	I do, Andrew.
	I do want to show you a video that we can perhaps pull up another time, and you can tell me if you think this would be a good argument to make for future shows.
	So, Nick, just play the video really quick and I'll give the context for why I would show this specific video.
	So, just this segment here, when there's people like slowly moving in the car, and there's just like a bear kind of chilling.
	And then that's pretty much the extent of the segment.
	And like, I think the way I would frame the argument, I know nobody here picked bear, would be, well, if it was just a random man in place of that bear, would you be more likely to exit the vehicle if it's that bear who's just strolling along in that car ride?
	Or just if it's a random man?
	You're absolutely way more likely to get out of the car if it was a man than that bear.
	Absolutely.
	I'm thinking in that specific argument.
	You should just put up a get you what you should do if you want it to really hit home, get another video of just a random guy walking across the street in the same scenario.
	Be like, which one would you get out of the car for?
	But I would think most people, if they're in a car, if they're in a car, they would feel far less safe exiting the vehicle in that scenario if it's just like a stack of cars, whatever, and the bear just walks by.
	I don't know.
	I thought that might be a good video for future episodes.
	Let me read a couple chats here.
	We have, let me start with the Streamlabs ones.
	We have I think we should have the Austrian girl read.
	And your name's Enya, right?
	Yes.
	Are you named after the band?
	Enya?
	Or is that?
	No, she's a musical artist.
	I think that's she.
	Yes.
	You're named after her?
	Yeah.
	What's her sail away?
	Is that one of the songs?
	What's the other one?
	That's such a Caribbean.
	That's a good song.
	It's a terrible song.
	Don't, hey, don't dog on Enya.
	She's like, Andrew.
	You're like, no.
	There's Caribbean Blue.
	What's her other banger?
	Hold on.
	Enya.
	That's been in like every grocery store in the 90s forever.
	Only time.
	Only time, Orinoco Flow.
	Wait, yeah.
	Only Time, Orinoco Flow, Caribbean Blue.
	Anyways, okay.
	So we're going to have you read.
	You get to read, right?
	You're here to learn English.
	We're going to practice your English reading.
	So you read that.
	Go ahead.
	The delusional.
	You got it.
	Oh, yeah, I can't.
	I can barely read it too.
	The delusional.
	You got to do it into the mic.
	Speak into the mic?
	Sorry.
	The delusional redhead is only dumb because men allow you to be dumb.
	You're, I don't know how.
	I don't know why.
	I can't say that.
	You got it.
	This is obviously very overestimates their position and value.
	Everything you know was spilled by men.
	Well done.
	That was really good.
	That was good.
	EF classes are paying off.
	All right.
	Thank you, Gillies.
	And then we have SS.
	Please know World War II references, please.
	Okay.
	Go ahead.
	My life is settled married, self-employed, so I'm not in the pool of marketing myself for gold.
	Diggers, guessing you are a single, not late to get in shape morally and physically.
	Wait.
	Damn.
	And then the last part, you missed it?
	Yeah, because this part.
	Oh, there's the last part, like this part?
	This spark dot.
	What?
	Sparta!
	No, it's okay.
	You're doing good.
	I'm wondering if there's a way we can.
	Wait, Nick, so you can actually just quickly resize it, I think.
	And then you would just control Z it.
	So just like shift and then go into the corner.
	No, shift.
	Hold shift.
	And then put the mouse over the corner.
	Red dot.
	This one?
	Yep.
	And then just hold, make it bigger.
	That might help.
	Maybe.
	I'm not sure, though.
	We'll see.
	You might have to.
	Okay.
	God damn, that was a tip.
	Are you sure you're holding shift, sir?
	Maybe control shift, try control shift.
	Scuffed.
	Does.
	You want to resize that?
	Are you talking to George?
	Isn't it shift to like make it so it doesn't change the, uh, just try it.
	Just try it.
	Oh.
	So shift bro, that's weird.
	Normally shift will.
	Okay.
	All right, we're going to have you read this one.
	Have your OBS guy, my OBS guy.
	I will say things I don't agree with because it may make me money.
	Regardless of the damage it does on others.
	Ah, fuck.
	You changed it in the wrong one.
	Okay, can you put it just control Z?
	Control Z.
	Okay, now do it.
	Okay, go ahead one more time.
	Sorry, guys, we're trying to get her some like English in.
	We've teamed up with EF to as a sponsor.
	We've teamed up with EF to help people learn English.
	Okay.
	All right, let's try now.
	Because I have no values and money is my only God, because I have no very sure.
	Thank you, Giovanni C, appreciate it.
	Read by the wonderful Enya.
	Okay, we have Robert Tanner here coming in in just a sec.
	Thank you, Giovanni.
	Appreciate it.
	Go ahead.
	Andrew, can you please back to about objective truth?
	This is a huge comment and heart of much of these arguments.
	Subjective reality, we all perish.
	Look at the name.
	How do we say that?
	Nazis.
	Wait, you don't know this one?
	Yeah, I don't know how to speak correctly.
	Who felt their truth was correct?
	You can switch it back, Nick.
	Damn, that was crazy.
	Andrew?
	Well, you can, but I'm not trying to make these streams philosophy heavy.
	So we're just trying to get into the ideas around dating and this type of thing.
	Sometimes a bit of philosophy comes up, but I don't think you want to get into objective versus subjective morality in a dating podcast.
	Probably not the best idea.
	Save them for debates.
	In any case, Robert Tanner, thank you for the message and thank you for your.
	I think you sent in previously some gifted memberships on YouTube.
	So thank you, man.
	We have Jess White here.
	Are you able to see this one?
	Okay.
	Yes.
	Someone get red a pineapple to sit on.
	She needs a break from her head being stuffed so far up there.
	A3 at most with an ugly attitude.
	She will be alone with her cats like the rest.
	Only time will tell.
	Do you have cats?
	I do.
	I have two.
	Hey, I have two cats.
	Wait, Nick, why did you play that, bro?
	But also, wife and kids.
	Okay.
	All right, Jess White.
	Shout out to Australia.
	She is from Australia, Andrew.
	Just saying.
	Uh-huh.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	I'm just thought I'd let you know.
	Who is?
	Jess.
	The one.
	Okay.
	Do you have any Australian currency?
	Any?
	Any.
	Any Australian currency on you?
	I don't know what we're talking about.
	Okay, let's get into it.
	I'm going to try to get through all the pre-shows.
	We have.
	What's that, Nick?
	Dating apps also.
	Oh, dating apps.
	We have got people's dating apps.
	We'll get to those, guys.
	So we have some dating apps from the girls that we'll review.
	We'll get into that a little bit later.
	So let's see here.
	Why don't we go to Courtney?
	Courtney, you're a stand-up comedian.
	You wanted to talk about, or I don't know if you wanted to talk about dating as a bi woman.
	In any case, you said it's rough out here.
	You got to really advocate for yourself and stay safe.
	Guys lie about shit and they for sure don't get tested regularly.
	I don't think it's just guys.
	I just think, like, if you're going to sleep with someone, you can't trust on faith that they're being honest about whether they're clean or not.
	Sure.
	That's kind of.
	That's valid.
	That's fair.
	You said that you.
	Oh, wait.
	My notes did not update.
	That's unfortunate.
	I'm going to have to pull it up via Instagram.
	Did anybody send me pre-show notes like this morning?
	Oh, no.
	Courtney, I know you sent me something nobody.
	I did yesterday.
	Where do you do stand-up?
	Anywhere I can.
	Locally, there's a lot of spots in Santa Barbara.
	I've traveled as far as like Temple Ten and Tuscadero, done some festivals, Long Beach, LA.
	You think female comedians are as funny as male comedians?
	I think it depends on the comedian.
	Not just on average.
	I don't think there are as many female comedians, so I don't think.
	That's why we would use the average.
	Yeah, I'd say so.
	Yeah.
	From what I've seen.
	Okay.
	I feel like a lot of woman comedians, it's more laughing at.
	They kind of suggest themselves being laughing at instead male comedians.
	It's actual.
	So here's my ultimate question to prove if this is true or not.
	Just from my perspective.
	In any part of your bit or your act, right?
	Do you bring up your vagina?
	There are some bits, sure.
	Every single time.
	Every time, well, every time I tune in to a female comic, they're always talking about their views.
	I have no idea why.
	It's not my go-to.
	I have files and files of jokes in my head.
	sure some of them are going to include my vagina like just as I've seen dudes talk about their dick I don't really feel like it's yeah some some male comics do I've noticed, though, that most of them don't.
	Most of them talk about everything.
	In the world, though, like, you see what you see on TV.
	I see, like, everything that nobody sees on TV.
	And like, I can, like, there's a lot of dudes that talk about their dicks.
	Kevin Hart always jokes he's shock stick.
	Like his size.
	I feel like it's pretty even.
	Kevin Hart's not a very funny comedian.
	Didn't say he was, I was just saying.
	Well, anyways, to get into your notes here, so you sorry, I just lost it.
	These stories are probably wild.
	I don't know why my drop box got scuffed.
	Sorry, guys.
	Okay.
	You said that you don't not to look past red flags under the guise of being progressive.
	Oh, what does that mean?
	That's taken out of a full-ass story.
	But so I dated a guy very briefly who exhibited a lot of red flags very early on.
	But I was like, that's fine.
	I'm progressive.
	So like, for example, he told me he had four kids.
	It's like, yeah, he's in his 30s.
	I understand that anyone I date in my 30s is probably going to have some kids.
	So I was like, I like kids.
	I could be a stepmom.
	We can move past it.
	Then he tells me he has four baby mamas.
	Yeah.
	It's a lot of justification that happens.
	Was he black?
	He was.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	What kind of stereotype is that?
	I mean, yeah, so that's that's all I'm saying is like I well, and I have like, I was working on a bit about this of like, it's 2024.
	Like, you know, you can have four kids.
	They can be with four different baby mamas.
	Like, and then it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
	So yeah.
	Okay.
	And you said, let's see here.
	Hold on.
	Tinder isn't what it used to be during the COVID days.
	And you have a great joke you do about dating how guys are tired.
	Oh, yeah.
	So what's the thing with COVID?
	What's the thing with COVID?
	I was very successful on dating apps.
	Perhaps maybe more successful than I've ever been.
	Although I haven't really been on dating apps historically, like for long periods of time.
	I think people were looking.
	I guess success is what we define it as.
	But in terms of getting hookups and meeting people I wanted to meet.
	And yeah, I had a lot going on.
	That's all.
	I probably would not do as well today.
	Which is fun.
	And what about guys are tired?
	Yeah, this is just a joke.
	Well, don't tell us it's a joke.
	I mean, it is.
	I don't actually.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	Basically, like, if a guy comes first, like, that's okay.
	You know, like, he just needs to like replace it with something.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, a vibrator, a dildo, like, his big toe.
	Like, I don't care.
	You know, just like wash your big toe because I'm really sick of getting an athlete's pussy.
	There's not like a tenactin for that, you know.
	Joke about your vagina.
	There you go.
	I pulled it out just for you.
	I pulled out just for you.
	Okay.
	Good times.
	Good times.
	It's fun to bomb here because like it doesn't bomb in a crowd full of people.
	But I also don't start it by saying this is a different setting, you know?
	Let's see.
	Something about the meth guy.
	Same guy.
	7-Eleven.
	That's the four kids, four babies.
	Same guy, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	What about the murder date?
	Can you give us the really short version of the murder date?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I went on a date with a guy.
	We went to get sushi.
	The sushi place was closed.
	So we took it to go to a second location.
	He said he like did real estate, which I found out later was not actually true.
	So I don't know how he knew this property or he'd get into it.
	Either way, we drive up like a windy ass road for like a long time, which at that point I was starting to get uncomfortable.
	And he's also just driving kind of like maniacally.
	We get to this house.
	It's like an unfinished house on a hill.
	I think the intention was like to have a like kind of romantic sunset date, but I just kept getting like terrible feelings.
	Like, like we get there.
	There's like, this probably doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.
	There was like a jug of water in the back of his car.
	And like, I don't know if there's like a shovel on the property or what, but there was like some stuff.
	And so we walk into the house and it's like unfinished.
	It's like kind of like a spooky room.
	And I look back and the door is like about to close and I had like a panic attack.
	I was like, this door closes.
	Like this is the last time I'm ever going to see a door basically.
	And I just, I freaked out and like told him I didn't, you know, to take me back.
	I didn't want to continue this date.
	I was really freaked out.
	You know, and he was like, I'm a good person.
	He just kept talking about how he was a good person, which I don't think ever helps in those situations.
	You know, he's like, you can ask anyone.
	I'm a good person.
	I've worked with homeless people before.
	And I was like, can you just give me some space?
	Like, it just like, it looked like the scene out of a horror movie.
	And I like saw myself above.
	Like, are you going to get murdered?
	Like, so, I mean, that's all it was.
	And it's crazy because I found out later I'd met another girl that he like had done this with another girl and like taken her to this spot.
	And it just, it was just weird.
	It was just very.
	Was it his house?
	No, it wasn't.
	I don't know who, I don't know whose property or if I was.
	Did the other one stick it out?
	I don't remember.
	I just remember like that beginning conversation about this.
	Yeah, this guy does this or something.
	It was just takes women to a nice picnic spot.
	It certainly wasn't.
	You haven't finished the whole story.
	No, I know.
	And I know, and I'm not proud of it because we did hook up later.
	So that's on me.
	Very regrettable.
	But in the moment, I was like, and maybe that's what made it hot later.
	I don't know.
	It's kind of like a weird, fucked up thing.
	But maybe what?
	Yeah, not like, not my proudest hookup, but I felt way safer when I was.
	Was this the same day that you went down the windy road to the house, spooky house?
	Yeah, yeah.
	This was all within the same.
	Yeah.
	So.
	Yeah, you said, you said, of course, my dumbass ended up hooking up with him anyways.
	Yep.
	Mid-hookup, he says what?
	Oh, yeah, he called me daddy.
	I know.
	Yeah.
	I'm like, I don't know what about me says daddy.
	I could see it.
	Yeah, and I like told him right away.
	I was like, please don't.
	I know.
	I was like, please don't.
	Like, please don't.
	And then he calls me mommy, like, shortly after that.
	And I was like, do you just have, like, are you little, like.
	That's fucking disgusting.
	Yeah.
	Like, are you orphan annie?
	And I'm like, daddy Warbucks.
	Like, get the fuck out of here.
	It was wild.
	So.
	He called you daddy?
	He called me daddy.
	And then my told me at like a, he called me mommy.
	Wait, so you said, I don't like it.
	Then his idea is.
	Let me try the other one.
	His idea is to try mommy.
	Yep.
	He's definitely a gooner.
	Wait, ladies, which would you prefer?
	Which would you prefer?
	Being called daddy or mommy?
	Is that a question?
	Mommy?
	No.
	I don't know.
	I basically was like, go back to daddy.
	Jaivanik donated $200.
	Why talk about getting poked by some potential serial killer when you have a boyfriend?
	Do you have zero respect for your man?
	Imagine clowning your man like that on a platform.
	They weren't together.
	Yeah, that's kind of a dumb point.
	I'm on a dating show.
	Am I only going to talk about my current relationship?
	It'd be pretty boring.
	I mean, she already talked about her vagina.
	Right.
	That's all I talk about.
	It's all fair game.
	Giovanni.
	Okay, all right.
	So then he called you daddy.
	And then you said what to him.
	I said, I don't like that.
	I think I said something like, please don't call me that.
	Oh, right.
	You already said the orphan anything.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And then he texted you again.
	I didn't mean to say no.
	Okay.
	Okay, that's an interesting one.
	And did you continue to date him after?
	No, that was the one experience I ever had.
	No, that was just it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like he said, he texts me and asks if I want to hang out.
	I said no.
	Interesting.
	I was very ashamed that I hooked up with him.
	Ashamed.
	But, you know, we all make mistakes.
	By the way, Nick, remind me about the dating apps.
	Make sure I don't forget about those.
	Going to Rihanna?
	Is that how you say your name?
	It's Rihanna.
	Rihanna.
	Okay.
	You have Bachelor's in Psychology.
	Yes.
	You said hot takes on dating, love, and respect yourself enough to leave at the first red flag.
	Maybe you two have something in common there.
	Okay.
	Definitely a daddy.
	Yeah, I'd put the red fuck on.
	Yeah, that's why I'm going to do it.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Tell us about the bowling date.
	Oh, God, this is so funny.
	So I moved to Vegas last summer.
	I like leased apartment.
	It was the first time I moved out on my own.
	I was like freshly single, had some new self-respect and self-worth.
	So I'm just dating, going on dates.
	I had been seeing this guy for, I want to say maybe like almost two months.
	We like made it known that we were like exclusively seeing each other.
	I don't know if we were like boyfriend and girlfriend, but we were like, oh, we were like exclusively seeing each other to see where this goes.
	And then we were bowling and he's like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom.
	And I'm like, okay, sounds good.
	And I'm like doing my bowl and I'm waiting for him.
	He comes back with his super bright red face and he's like, oh, gosh, he's just acting weird.
	I'm like, oh, like what?
	What's going on?
	I've never seen him like this.
	And he's like, I just, I drank two beers right before he walked in here.
	And I'm like, oh, and I'm like, that's weird.
	That doesn't seem like you.
	Like, I was like, okay.
	And then he's like, and then that's why I like, I accidentally texted you when I texted you when I meant to text my brother.
	And I'm like, what?
	And then he's like, yeah, like I said, I sent a text.
	It was supposed to go to my brother, but it went to you.
	So then he goes to take his bowl.
	And I'm like, okay, like just now in the bathroom.
	So I go to my phone.
	And then the text that he sent to me, which was supposed to go to his brother, quote, said, I can be there at 10 p.m. love.
	Wait.
	And how long were you dating him for?
	We were dating for like almost two months.
	And we had probably like, I want to say like three weeks before that, like been like, oh, this is going really well.
	And we're going to exclusively just see each other now.
	Okay.
	And then he said, yeah.
	Okay.
	And so did you keep seeing him or was that the end?
	Oh, no.
	This is actually where it gets funnier on my end.
	Like, just like, you know, making mistakes stuff.
	So I like really just have too much trust in people almost.
	Like I just believe them when I shouldn't.
	So I was, well, at first I was like, oh, we better hurry up this date so you can go get to your 10 p.m. love.
	And then he was like, no, like I really meant to send that to my brother.
	And I was like, this is so silly out too.
	I'm like, that's just so crazy.
	But I was like, I was like, look me in my eyes and tell me that you really meant every brother.
	And he's like, I really meant that to my brother.
	And I was like, okay, like, I believe you.
	And so then I saw him.
	I never slept with him or anything.
	We just had only ever made out.
	That was it.
	Wait, you guys were dating for two months?
	Yeah.
	And you didn't smash?
	No, didn't smash.
	But did you have a question?
	Yeah, you didn't know that he has a brother?
	So he's making a lot of fun.
	Two younger brothers.
	But the message was not meant for the message.
	It was for another girl, yeah.
	Yeah, for another.
	Wait, y'all were dating.
	Oh, shit.
	Robert Tanner donating $1,000.
	Pop champagne.
	FYI.
	Stock market is collapsing and I am making a fortune.
	Yep.
	Do not drink champagne.
	A lot of people soon are going to be unemployed.
	As I am right now, help those that are all about to suffer.
	Can I get a paper of talent on there?
	Yeah, but here's the thing.
	Hang on, Robert.
	If I may, if I may make this argument to you for why this is a good thing that the stock market is collapsing, because we'll probably get Donald Trump in office if it does.
	We'll probably end up with Donald Trump getting elected if the stock market crashes.
	So it's not all bad news, bro.
	Not all bad news.
	Hey, Robert Tanner, you're a fucking legend.
	You want Trump?
	He's a fucking idiot.
	I want Trump.
	He's a pioneer.
	Hell yeah.
	Wait, you want Trump?
	No.
	Oh, okay.
	Hold on.
	This is from Harris Hooker.
	I'm a fucking legend.
	You're a fucking legend, Tanner.
	Yes!
	About time I get a fucking lucky break in this fucking game.
	Motherfuckers, and I caught the goddamn grenade launcher.
	That's fucking right.
	All right.
	Sorry, it's going to take me a million years to get this open.
	You were, wait, telling us how it got funnier?
	Did you?
	Oh, the funnier part was the fact that I believed him, that it was truly sent to his brother.
	So then I still saw him for like a week, but then he did something like he said we were going to, we had a plan, and then he like bailed on me.
	Wait, hold on.
	Y'all were exclusive, but not having sex?
	Yeah, I were.
	Are you religious?
	No.
	You wait two months to...
	I think I wait longer.
	I've waited four.
	What the fuck?
	Yeah, I wait a long time.
	It depends how comfortable I am.
	You're bonding your soul.
	It takes a while.
	Yeah, and, like, well, if you do that too early, like, you get into your head too early.
	You're like, oh, wow.
	Have you ever heard of soul bonding with dragons?
	Magic.
	Or the liquor palace?
	I've not.
	Take that shit.
	That's a thing.
	Take that.
	Soul bonding with dragons with dragon.
	Yeah, it's soul bonding with dragons.
	Supposed to be the best kind of soul bond.
	You mean like avatar?
	No.
	When they soul bonding, just a little champagne.
	No champagne.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Nothing can do.
	Champagne.
	Champagne.
	Yeah, I'm not going to deny that.
	It's just these three who can't drink here.
	These three can't drink.
	That's us in the middle.
	You can.
	Huh?
	What?
	Yo, Robert Tanner.
	We have to do cheers once everybody has their alcohol.
	Wait, so hold on.
	Two months?
	In what way are you exclusive?
	Well, we were exclusively dating each other.
	We just hadn't worked up to moving on to those sexual things yet.
	And you're not religious?
	I'm not religious, no.
	And are you like a virgin?
	No, not a virgin.
	So you're not religious?
	Not religious, not a virgin.
	You're not a virgin.
	Who am I?
	But you're waiting.
	You know who am I game?
	Just a high-value.
	I'm just curious.
	I'm just curious.
	Wait, have you?
	What's the longest you've ever waited to have sex?
	With someone I was seeing?
	Such a coomer, Brian.
	How is that strong?
	How is that stronger?
	They're waiting for a significant amount.
	Yeah, I was going to say, like, four months, five months.
	Okay, now, have you ever hooked up with people quicker than that?
	When I was in my early 20s, there was like a few people that it was just like not, I mean, they were people I knew, but it was just like, oh, I like you.
	You never like hooked up with somebody the first day you met them?
	No.
	Did you go to college?
	I did go to college.
	Where did you go?
	To school?
	The first two years, I was a very small Christian school, actually.
	I played soccer, and then still soccer at the second school, but UNC Asheville was a bigger school.
	But they were small schools in North Carolina.
	He's not buying my sorry.
	He's like, I don't buy this.
	I believe it.
	I was a virgin for a very long time.
	I was a virgin until I was like 21.
	I was like a junior in college, and then all my friends were like, girl, you need to have sex because you're crazy being a virgin.
	And I was like, many name.
	Like, you know.
	Oh, your friends changed you.
	Cheers to Tanner.
	They want nice friends.
	Cheers to Robert, the great Robert Tanner.
	Cheers.
	Salute.
	Cheers.
	Thank you, Robert Tanner.
	Your patronage is very much appreciated.
	Thank you, man.
	And okay, anyways, I was just getting off track there.
	I know, bad friends.
	Me and my mom were just talking about that the other day.
	Oh, well, live and learn.
	Yeah.
	But so you said you did have, like, always trying to pull the ladder up, you know?
	Yeah.
	You did say you had some indiscretions, though, when you were younger.
	Yeah, like when I first had lost my virginity when I was 21, then I. Wait, hold on.
	Yeah.
	When you lost your virginity, you lost it.
	To a boyfriend.
	Oh, I thought you were about to say, like, you lost your virginity.
	It was like a guy you met like two days prior.
	Oh, no, no.
	We were dating.
	We had been dating for like three or four months before I had slept with him.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Fair enough.
	Fair enough.
	Back to your notes in any case.
	So there's the guy, the texting guy, whatever.
	He's gone.
	You were on a date where a guy got pissed after you outsmarted him.
	This is funny.
	Okay, you go ahead.
	Okay.
	So this was shortly after I was done dating the bowling guy.
	And I had met this guy playing pickup soccer in Nevada.
	I thought he was cute.
	He had a camping tattoo on his arm.
	So I was like, oh, we can bond over camping.
	So I had invited him over to my apartment one night.
	And I was like, oh, we can go to the store, buy like a board game and like play a board game, you know, get to know each other, have fun.
	So we went to the store, we decided on Battleship.
	And there is some strategy in Battleship.
	You know, you can like either like, well, what I did was I put all of my ships all together in one clump.
	And then that way, if you like have one of like the four ship, but it's connected to the three, in certain ways, you might think that you hit a different ship than you actually hit.
	So then they're looking or thinking that they need to look for something else, right?
	So he wasn't like catching on to what I was doing.
	And then he was like, I don't understand.
	Like, you don't have the two ship left or like whatever.
	And then I was like, well, I do.
	And then he was like, show me your board.
	And I was like, okay.
	So then I show him the board.
	And then he's like, so we need to restart.
	But I won that one because I had sunk more ships.
	I was just like, okay.
	Like he just was having like this big ego about the game.
	Like I was just like, okay, whatever.
	So we play again.
	And then like, you know, when you get vulnerable with someone, you like to talk about your insecurities.
	So I was like telling him how like, oh, when I was younger, like I, well, I still have bad BO, but I really, I had really bad BO when I was like a little kid.
	So I was like telling him this like funny story that I thought was just funny.
	And then he was like, yeah, speaking of, like, you smelled so disgusting the other day at soccer that when I went to hug you, I literally almost puked and I turned and I was like, and I like really almost was gonna upchuck.
	And I was like, okay.
	So then he left.
	Well, no, then he kisses me.
	I know.
	That's so mean.
	So then he kisses me and leaves.
	And I'm fucking disgusting.
	Yeah.
	So then I walk in the bathroom and I like look in the mirror and I start crying because that made me like it hurt my feelings.
	And then I call my mom and I'm like, Mom, what do you think of this?
	That's so silly.
	So then I texted him because he had just asked me to be his girlfriend.
	I told him I was thinking about it.
	And then I said, I do not want to be your girlfriend.
	And then I never talked to him over again.
	Kind of funny.
	But also sad.
	I like it.
	Battleship and B.O.
	Yeah, I like didn't deter him, though.
	Like, he was still about it.
	Yeah.
	I know.
	Yeah, I don't think playing board games is a good idea.
	Really?
	Like, Monopoly?
	Bro, if you want to, like, have enemies for life, bro.
	You can't play a Monopoly with somebody.
	That is so true.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	You don't get competitive over that shit.
	No.
	Bro, you know how frustrating, you know how easy it is to get tilted playing Monopoly?
	No, you spent, dude, you spent a fucking game, dude.
	Who cares?
	You spend two fucking hours, two fucking hours developing your board, and just from pure RNG luck, the other person just got better fucking roles.
	Two hours playing this goddamn slow-ass game, and then they're just like smoking you because your RNG sucks.
	No.
	Okay, good.
	I don't see it.
	Good talk.
	Let's see what else here.
	We going back to Natalie.
	Yes.
	No, if they're feeding you at video games, that's different.
	Fair enough.
	Especially if it's a fighting game, they're just button mashing.
	That's bullshit.
	That is bullshit.
	They're just button mashing.
	You're like, you don't know what the fuck you're doing.
	You shouldn't have won that.
	That's bullshit.
	That's a strategy.
	I mean, just a random shit.
	Going to Natalie, you said I also would love to debate about subjects like the importance issues of Christianity.
	I'm not going to talk about that other one.
	Being a traditional woman and Shmushmor Shin.
	Oh.
	So what's the.
	Are you Christian?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	What denomination?
	Being.
	Presbyterian.
	Okay.
	Being a traditional woman and shmushmorshan.
	So you're against shmushmorshan.
	Abortion.
	You're against it?
	I'm sort of a middle ground here.
	Are we, should I explain?
	I think from like a religious standpoint, I have issues with it, but I also know that we live in a world where not everybody is religious and we don't live in a perfect world and there's a lot.
	I think since everyone's not under the religious belief that they should be entitled to their own opinion, that I do think there should be way, way, way, way more restrictions on shmushmorshman.
	Well, I don't understand though.
	Let's back up.
	Yeah.
	Let's untangle some ideas again, right?
	Yeah.
	So idea one, from your Christian purview, abortion is murder.
	It is.
	That's kind of where I struggle.
	From your Christian worldview.
	Sure, yes.
	Is it from a Christian standpoint and what the Bible is?
	Yes.
	Yeah, from your Christian standpoint, it is murder.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Then why the fuck would you make murder legal?
	Because I know that everyone doesn't have the same views that I do.
	Why would that matter?
	So now we're back to the idea of the serial killer again, Ruby.
	Remember earlier when we were saying that's subjective, so you can be a serial killer if you want to.
	Well, you can based on that view.
	You're actually enabling that view.
	I think that it's just not realistic to say that.
	I don't think.
	Is it your duty to be realistic?
	Is it your duty to be realistic?
	Is it your duty to say we're going to run the world based on just sheer pragmatism?
	That's not Christianity.
	That's something else, right?
	No, I agree, but I think that I don't believe that day of conception, but that is life.
	Well, when is it?
	Yeah, when is this struggle?
	This is why I am kind of.
	I think that there should be more restrictions in the fact that there's girls that I've heard from that have gone and gotten multiple abortions.
	And yeah.
	It's not good for your body.
	It's not long-term.
	Or the baby.
	And why I struggle to say that abortion shouldn't be legal is when it comes to like the woman, the mother's health perspective, which I know is a small majority.
	That's not pregnancy.
	In a topic, pregnancy and abortion are two completely different things.
	In a topic, pregnancy is literally when the baby has grown outside of the uterus.
	That is a life-saving procedure.
	Yep.
	Those two are two completely.
	No dispute there.
	That's because an abortion, you don't want the baby.
	In a topic pregnancy, you wanted that child, but the child just grew outside of you.
	So those aren't the same.
	So when you say it's life-saving, it's not.
	You're literally killing a life.
	Well, and the thing is, is even if we were to grant that it was, we're just going to grant it for the sake of argument that in this particular case, you have to choose between two lives.
	You're trying to make the best decision you can.
	Fine.
	We'll grant in that case, the mother can always have more kids.
	But in this case, if you try to have that kid, it could kill them both, right?
	So we can just kind of grant that and say it's a wash, right?
	And just even allow those.
	Yeah.
	I still don't, since that's not even close to the representation of almost every abortion done on planet Earth, I'm not really sure that bringing that up has any merit.
	So moving over to when life begins, when does it begin?
	It begins at conception.
	You got me a chop, I'm not going to lie.
	Because when people say, oh, it's just a fetus.
	Literally go and Google.
	The definition of fetus is baby.
	That's literally what it is.
	Yeah.
	No, I think it is.
	I mean, I'm more so on the pro-life side, but when it does come to like, you know, grape and incest.
	Yeah, that's where I'm just like, but literally, if you go on Google, it's free.
	It's there.
	99% of abortions are literally because women are being reckless.
	They make mistakes.
	The baby's an inconvenience.
	You chose the wrong dude.
	Literally, less than 1% is because of incest and grape.
	And in the perfect world, I would love to say that.
	I'm not willing to grant that, though, either.
	That is.
	No, no, no.
	I'm not willing to grant that it would be okay under those circumstances.
	So let me give you, maybe I can clear this up for you, right?
	Let's do just like a kind of a basic logic exercise.
	Okay.
	If you, right, in this hypothetical, were horribly essayed, could you then go home and kill your son?
	So I'm not speaking of that.
	Hang on.
	No, I'm not.
	I want you to answer the question.
	Could you do that?
	What do you mean?
	How come?
	Wait, I don't understand.
	How come this trauma which happened to you doesn't make it okay to kill your son?
	That's fine.
	It's growing.
	My baby's growing in.
	No, Your son is out of me.
	Oh, out of me?
	Oh, that's because you can't murder your child.
	That's like a living, breathing.
	And when do you think it's a child?
	Literally, right.
	Yeah, I know.
	So then, so then, wait a second.
	So then, how could you be for abortion even during SA?
	Are you saying that the son is a product of?
	No.
	So then, how is that connected?
	I don't understand.
	Well, because if you're saying this is a life and this is a life, if you're SA'ed, are you allowed to take a life?
	The answer is no.
	So if you say life begins at conception, then this would mean directly after the SA, this is now a life, then you would have to explain that justification, and she knows that there's no possible way she can.
	And so for her to be consistent, she would actually have to say no, even during or even as a result of SA, you would not be able to abort.
	That's the only really consistent.
	I understand the feeling of it.
	So do you want children to grow up in loveless households or in the system?
	Because that's what is a result if women get raped or incest.
	I mean.
	Well, I think that a person who would end up a dominatrix probably grew up in a loveless household, but I don't want to abort you.
	Shit.
	I mean, that's your opinion.
	I'm just saying, like, ultimately, no.
	I don't think that because you're poor, you have lesser value as a human being.
	I don't think because you're a woman or your race or anything like this, you have a lesser value as a human being.
	I think that human beings have an ontological value.
	And so I'm a Christian, and I've always believed that this is true.
	Even before I logically reconciled my beliefs in a God, I always knew that human beings intrinsically had value.
	I'm not ever going to say that because you're poor, you have no value.
	But that's not what I'm getting at.
	It is what you're getting at.
	They're of lesser value.
	How can you say?
	No.
	Okay, well then, why do you want to kill them?
	I'm saying a child would grow up in a loveless household if they're, I mean, I've read plenty of- So they have lesser value, right?
	To society?
	No, I'm saying there's parents that are regretful and that don't want children.
	So you would want a kid to be raised in an environment like that?
	But would you like to be a good person?
	Hang on, hang on.
	I mean, honestly, I wouldn't want to be raised in an environment that you'd rather be dead than raised in a loveless household.
	Okay, no, but I'm saying as a fetus.
	As a fetus.
	You don't have that, obviously.
	But let us, hang on.
	I'm just going to engage with this the best way I can to kind of walk you through the logic here.
	Not the logic.
	Let us assume for a second that you could read the mind of cows, okay?
	That you could.
	A cow is born specifically for the purpose of being eaten.
	Now, it's going to have a three-year life cycle or two-year life cycle until it gets as big as you can get it, and then you're going to humanely put it down.
	You're going to eat it.
	If you could ask these cows if they would rather exist for the two years or not exist for the two years, even knowing at the end of it they're going to get eaten, which do you think they would pick?
	I don't think they would pick.
	Like, I just don't, I mean, I personally, like, if I knew that my parents didn't want me, I probably wouldn't want to be alive.
	Then let's ask you.
	If you could live 20 years of your life, right, knowing that at the end of that 20 years, the lights would just go out, but you would get eaten by aliens, let's say, would you still choose to be alive if you had a good quality of life?
	No, I wouldn't want to subject myself to that.
	You wouldn't?
	No.
	Okay, so then why is it you subject yourself to any suffering?
	I mean, I think there's different levels of suffering.
	I mean, you're a dominant matrix.
	You literally perform suffering on people and think it's hilarious and fun.
	I mean, yeah, true.
	But I'm saying that in the context of a family, a kid that is growing up in an abusive environment by no fault of their own.
	That's suffering, yeah.
	Yeah, it is suffering.
	And for some people, they don't ever win that battle.
	For some people, some people are stronger.
	But can you agree with me that when it comes to trauma, if you're alive, you at least have a shot of moving past trauma?
	Sure, you do.
	But there are people who are dead.
	You have no shot of moving past trauma.
	That's fair, but I think growing up knowing that you are the product of grape or incest, that can't be an easy weight to bring around with you.
	Yeah, but that's a trauma which can be surmounted.
	Death cannot be surmounted.
	I don't think that's so important.
	In other words, why would I want to embrace a doctrine of death instead of a doctrine of life?
	I want the doctrine of life.
	I want, even if it is so, that the conditions are not going to be optimal for a child who's born.
	I still think that we don't get to determine to kill them just because we think perhaps they might have a bad quality of life.
	People can move past suffering, but they can't do it dead.
	I mean, I think people can move past suffering, but I think there are levels of suffering that you're going to have to just live with, but you're never going to heal from.
	Maybe, but at least you're alive.
	And many people carry the scars of suffering that they never completely heal from.
	A death of a loved one, for instance, would be one such category of this.
	And isn't it still better to be alive with that scar than dead?
	I just think the context is a little bit different when you're bringing in the fact that you are the product of incest or grape.
	Like, that's not a great feeling.
	And also, you have to be afraid of the person who's a good person.
	Can a person with a product of incest and grape go on to do amazing things?
	Sure, they can.
	I'm not saying that they can't, but I'm not sure.
	All I want is the potential.
	All I want is the potential.
	Even if it's horrible, I just want the potential of knowing that they can to allow them to try.
	Jaivanik donated $200.
	There are thousands of people who were conceived through SA.
	Tons.
	Are they lesser than you?
	They're not.
	Is it your worth based on how much your parents desired you?
	So I never said that I was better than anyone that was conceived through SA.
	I obviously know that that's not a killer.
	I never said I wanted to kill that.
	I'm saying that there are some people that can't live with that pain.
	Yeah, here's the thing: the vast majority of them can, and humans are resilient.
	Humans go through horrific things, and they're able to move past those traumas.
	Knowing that that is true, that you've gone through suffering, that's horrible, and so is everybody at this table, and you're going to.
	You're going to keep going through suffering.
	That's part of the human experience.
	It's still awful.
	It's preventable suffering.
	Yeah, but you know, you're still going to be suffering in your life, aren't you?
	Yeah, you're still going to feel.
	Yeah, but in a different way.
	I think that, unfortunately, like you, this is preventable.
	Like, you can't say that, like, me going through something like a death of a loved one is the same as those are two completely different traumas.
	Have you ever heard this is an old quote?
	It's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
	Yeah, I have heard that.
	What do you think that means?
	I mean, I think I take it for face value.
	It's better.
	Well, if you had never loved, you could never go through the suffering of losing love, which is one of the worst types of suffering: losing a kid, losing a parent, losing a sibling, even losing the love of your life to another man or woman or whatever, right?
	It's still better and preferable, in other words, to go through the suffering of losing that than to have never positioned yourself to suffer at all.
	Do you agree?
	I mean, that's fair.
	That is a fair statement, but I'm saying that I don't think you should subject an innocent child to that type of situation.
	And not even just like the sense of you were the product of grape or incest, but the fact that your parents, some not all, but some parents resent that.
	And I've listened to this girl talk about regretful parenting.
	And she reads stories that people post on Reddit and whatnot, or just send to her individually.
	And they talk about how much they regret their children.
	And like, that's not fair.
	Wait.
	That's not fair to the children.
	All of these people who exist currently, who are the product of SA, why aren't they unaliving themselves if their suffering is insurmountable?
	Because they're not suicidal.
	Because their suffering's not insurmountable.
	Meaning, they must have something that they're continuing to live towards and moving towards, right?
	That makes their suffering surmountable to that of life.
	Otherwise, they could and do always have the option of ending that, but they don't.
	So that seems like it's powerful evidence that a person even conceived under those circumstances would still prefer to be alive than dead because the people who have been aren't unaliving themselves.
	I mean, I'm sure there are some that are.
	Sure.
	But it can't be the vast majority, nor even close.
	I mean, I understand your statement, but I still stand on how I feel about it.
	And I'm just saying.
	Negative underscore 200 donated $200.
	Wilson, how do you reconcile your Christian opposition to abortion with the historical involvement of religious groups in wars that have resulted in the loss of many lives?
	I don't see how those two things would need to be reconciled.
	So saying that you are essentially assassinating a child in the womb, because that's what I think you're doing from my perspective, though I understand that's politically charged language, is far different than fighting a war of opposition.
	Sometimes this is done defensively, sometimes offensively, but justifications for wars are completely different than justification of killing innocent children.
	I mean, it's still unnecessary carnage, you know what I mean?
	It's not always unnecessary.
	Sometimes it's necessary carnage.
	Necessary is a loaded word.
	You got to be careful with it, right?
	Like, it's not necessary for you to be a domi mommy.
	I mean, I wouldn't call myself a dummy mommy.
	Yeah, but it's not necessary, right?
	I mean, sure, it's not necessary.
	It's not necessary.
	It's not out of necessity.
	That's a very loaded.
	It's a very loaded word.
	Okay, fair enough.
	Kind of backing up here.
	I would like to kind of challenge this just a little bit more before we move on.
	The idea of if you and I can agree that most people conceived of the condition of SA are not unaliving themselves, then don't you think that they've been able to surmount the very suffering that you want to eliminate the potential of them even being able to face?
	I mean, sure.
	Of course, there's going to be people out there that are able to move past their suffering and make something of it.
	But I mean, I'm just saying in the sense of if you can prevent any sort of suffering that doesn't need to be had, I mean, part of life, like you're going to lose a loved one.
	That's inevitable.
	But this is something that can be avoided.
	But I want you to think about the logical conclusion of this statement.
	Suffering can be avoided, right?
	And you're saying death is the ultimate way to avoid suffering.
	So then the extension of this would be if you wanted to eliminate suffering in the entire world, what would you do?
	Just kill everyone.
	Right.
	Does that make sense to you?
	I mean, yeah, it does make sense to me.
	Yeah.
	So you wouldn't want to do that, right?
	Of course not.
	So when we kind of take this to its logical conclusion of we want to make sure people can avoid suffering, well, you say we can do this by killing them.
	I agree.
	I guess that would avoid all future suffering.
	But the extension of that is if suffering is the thing we're trying to avoid, why wouldn't we just do that with everybody?
	I got that.
	I know.
	But I mean, I think there's, you know, certain types of suffering that do make you like, quote unquote, stronger.
	I mean, you got to appreciate it.
	Like most kinds.
	Most kinds of things.
	Yeah, most kinds of suffering.
	Again, I just think that that's something that is avoidable.
	And that's where I stand on that, you know?
	So I can't sway your mind even with logical argumentation.
	Like, even, is there anything I could do with logical argumentation that would sway your mind away from how you feel?
	No.
	I feel the way I feel, and I've felt this way for a long time.
	Do you think that feeling should trump logic?
	I mean, what is logic?
	Logic would be the proper and reasoned way in which to ferret out a position which is coherent.
	So you can imagine that without that, nothing in this world would work, including how you get up.
	Like you use logic daily and reasoning daily just to get through your day, right?
	Fair enough, yeah.
	So, I mean, you don't want to trump that with emotion.
	Making an emotional argument would be, that would be counterintuitive, right?
	You could have all sorts of terrible results from just like, listen to my emotions.
	That would be, you don't want people to listen to your emotions, right?
	I mean, I think emotions are valid.
	Sure.
	Not saying they're invalid.
	I make tons of emotional decisions.
	If I pick a blue-colored truck versus a red-colored truck, that's probably an emotional decision.
	Yeah, it's not because I'm getting any like extra performance out of the blue.
	I just emotionally like blue.
	Actually, though, you could use logic for that because, you know, like, I think they say red cars get pulled over the most.
	Yeah, I'm just saying in this case, I'm not.
	Yeah, I don't.
	I just like blue more.
	Fair enough, right?
	Fair enough.
	But that doesn't really require a logical justification.
	Nobody's going to ask me to justify why I want a blue over a red truck, right?
	That's not really a big deal.
	So I'm willing to concede to you that I use emotions tons, right?
	But when it comes to a position of life, death, things like this, reason should probably trump emotion, shouldn't it?
	I'll allow you each one final response on this and I have to move along.
	Yeah, move it along.
	I mean, I think we're going to keep moving in circles.
	Repeat it.
	I just want to know if you think ultimately, even knowing that I do think that emotion is valid, that doesn't mean that we should use it in lieu of reason, but we should usually use reason in lieu of emotion if we're making big decisions.
	I mean, technically you're correct, but I think it stems a lot deeper when it comes to this subject.
	Okay.
	All right, going back to Natalie, you said that a guy asked you on a date, told you that you post and wear, what you post and wear, what?
	You want me to just explain?
	Okay.
	Yep.
	Short, please.
	So basically, I, this is, I think, second date with the guy, and we were at a mall, and I said, like, something like, oh, I have that shirt or something.
	He's like, you wear that?
	Yes.
	It was a tank top, by the way.
	It wasn't anything very revealing.
	And he's like, you wear that?
	And I was like, yeah.
	He's like, I wouldn't let you out like that.
	Okay.
	Like, why are you out with me then?
	And then continued to proceed to tell me that he doesn't like what I post on Instagram or what I wear, but asked me out on a date.
	So I just feel like it's a little contradictory.
	Yeah.
	Also, he was obsessed with his ex, but.
	Just red flag after red flag.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't think there's anything, actually, anything wrong there, to be honest.
	The obsession with the ex, that's kind of.
	Yeah, he would like talk about how he did nothing wrong in this scenario with the ex and like show me receipts and this was our like second date.
	Oh yeah, he was not.
	Well, okay, we got to do these one at a time.
	So you were on a date with a guy and you were wearing an outfit.
	You were wearing the outfit or you were.
	No, no, no.
	We were at a mall and I said like, oh, I have that top.
	It was literally just a tank top.
	It was like probably very similar to what I was wearing.
	I'm wearing right now, just like cut off.
	He was like, I wouldn't let you wear that.
	If you guys were in a relationship.
	I mean, I'm assuming that's what he meant.
	Well, can I ask you a question?
	So if you attempt to prevent your boyfriend from wearing skin-tight jean shorts?
	I feel like yes, because that's very unattractive.
	That would be a very fun more than anything else.
	Right, but couldn't that apply to your situation?
	But I think his concern was it being attractive.
	Like it being appealing to other guys, I think, was his concern.
	Yeah, sure.
	Yeah.
	I think he was alluding to the fact that he thought I was a slut or something.
	Right.
	Well, I mean, so you were on the second date.
	Fight the icebreaker.
	Second date, yeah.
	Well, I mean, so prior to dating, you had these photos on your Instagram.
	What do you mean?
	I don't know.
	I didn't date him.
	I did not date him.
	Like, I went on dates, but I didn't, like, he was not my boyfriend.
	Right, so he's trying to establish very early on what his boundaries were.
	Yeah.
	Right, so prior to dating, I suppose he had no problem or absolutely no authority to say, you know, you were engaging in what he considered a single behavior.
	But assuming the relationship developed to the point where you guys were actually in a relationship, once you started dating, he wanted you to act in a way more commensurate with and more consistent with being in a relationship.
	And most women have no male guidance when it comes to this at all.
	I think that's fine if we were in a relationship, but I feel like that's weird.
	Right, but then women will also argue: well, if it was such an issue, you should have told me sooner.
	You should have told me up front.
	Well, I agree, but that's why I partially ended it, besides him being obsessed with his ex.
	I just wasn't comfortable.
	I think that to an extent, if I'm going out and going to parties and wearing something that's like very risque for male attention, I'm in a relationship, I don't think that's right.
	But if it's for you to do, for me to do, I don't agree with that.
	But like, I feel like the shirt would need to be shown for it to be like for an example because it was just something that was very like not anything that I think like anybody would really at this table oppose to or call like over sexual or something like that or risque even.
	I think it was very normal top, which is where I kind of had the problem, amongst other problems that I had with him.
	But that one just was kind of laughable.
	Yeah, he said he like opened with this.
	Yeah, we were in, we were in the mall, and I'm like, oh, I have that.
	And it worked.
	You went on two dates with him.
	It worked.
	No, I think she was on the second date.
	This was a lot of data on the second date.
	And the thing, the bigger part was with me: I said to him, I was like, I post this stuff.
	He found me through Instagram, like through mutual friends.
	You saw my Instagram.
	You liked it.
	So it obviously worked.
	What's the.
	So again, though, prior to dating, he had no problem with you engaging in that sort of behavior.
	But now that he met you on a second date, he probably wanted to see things further along.
	He was starting to lay out his boundaries for what he considered acceptable behavior from a potential girlfriend.
	Sure, I feel like there's just better ways to go about it than being like.
	Well, men are blunt communicators.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I think he sounds insecure, you know, and especially what I think.
	I mean, it sounds insecure because especially if she's saying that it was similar to this.
	It was very modest.
	It wasn't, I don't go out wearing things that are like outrageous.
	Like, I really, I don't.
	And I have, I just think that well, we don't know what it is.
	Is there a photo of it somewhere on the screen?
	Yeah, I think it's on my own.
	It was like a basic urban outfit or just think of a tank top.
	It was a tank top.
	I always find this idea odd of insecurity, though.
	I think it's insecure in the sense that, not insecure, but I think it's a lack of trust that you have in your, say, potential girlfriend that you think that I would be going out and wearing these things to attract other men.
	Yeah, but when I think of insecurity, I would think the opposite.
	I would think that saying upfront what it is that you want or don't want would be a sign of security, not a sign of insecurity.
	I think it just wasn't.
	The sign of insecurity to me would be like, I want to tell you this, this preference or this thing, but I'm going to be passive-aggressive or I'm just going to lead hints or things like that.
	That would lead me more towards the thought of insecurity versus here's what I want and here's why I want it.
	That sounds like somebody who's secure in what their preferences are.
	Well, what about brooding over your ex-girlfriend?
	Like, that's insecure.
	Hang on.
	Again, we're going to untangle the two ideas.
	Totally agree with you on the obsession of the ex-girlfriend thing.
	Red flag, I'd get the fuck away from that.
	But on the idea of moderate dress, to Brian's point, I don't think that that could be insecurity.
	That seems like a secure person would say it's more of like the way that it was said and like the other comments that have been made, I think, is like kind of the thing that we're missing here.
	Where it was like, you dressed that way for male attention, which did you?
	No, not at all.
	Like, if you, I feel like it's hard to explain without seeing the top in question, but like no different to what I'm wearing right now.
	Was he kind of saying that in the context of the entirety of your social media?
	It was like kind of two separate conversations where I started it with like, like, I don't wear that for male validation, blah, And he was saying that, like, the stuff that I've had on my Instagram.
	He's like, you're telling me that's not for male validation.
	It wasn't in my head for male validation.
	I think that's kind of where I had the issue with it.
	I see.
	We're saying that he thinks that I'm only posting this stuff and stuff like that for male validation.
	Gotcha.
	Where in my head's like a lot of the stuff I post, especially after losing so much weight, it's like, I'm really confident in how I look now and I'm proud of how far I've come.
	Let me show you that.
	Well, we'll pull up your insight.
	But I mean, that's for validation, though.
	Right?
	That would be definitely validation.
	Not in like a sexual way.
	Just being like, I'm proud of how far I've come.
	I'm proud of what I look like.
	I'm going to show it off.
	But not in a sexual way.
	No.
	Not in a way that would bring sexual attention.
	Really?
	Okay.
	Scroll down a little bit slow, please.
	This is for you women out there.
	This is not at all.
	I can show you the top of question.
	Put us on the other side, Nick.
	Put us on the other.
	The top in question is, no, go down.
	Is it the one where you're at the table there?
	No.
	Scroll down.
	It is at the wall with the cup of coffee, the white strip, the black shirt.
	The one where I'm wearing like a cardigan over there.
	Top left corner.
	That one.
	That was the exact top.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I kind of agree with him.
	That you wouldn't.
	What?
	No.
	You think that's not modest?
	Well, I don't think.
	You think that I post that?
	First of all, no, I would say that no, that's immodest.
	But even if I were to concede that it was modest, after looking at your social media, if you're going to tell me that you're not putting those pictures up because you want validation for men, I'm very skeptical.
	And so maybe I'm wrong.
	And that's all for women.
	You just want to show women the transformation you're about.
	Maybe that's true.
	Okay.
	I'm not in your head.
	I can't tell.
	That's fair.
	But I can definitely understand why a guy would be skeptical of that.
	I think that's fair, but I think that's a conversation to be had instead of just being a blanket statement.
	We're assuming that I'm a slut.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah, but I mean, what would the conversation be?
	It would be you saying, no, this is for the validation of a bunch of women.
	I want a bunch of women to look at me and validate me.
	And so he's going to be like, look, I just don't believe that.
	And there's no, it's not falsifiable, in other words.
	He can't be like, that's not true because he can't read your thoughts.
	You're telling me, though, if you say right now, lost a shit ton of weight, got a six-pack, best shape of your life, that you wouldn't want to show that off?
	I would not, no.
	In fact, it'd go out of my way.
	You wouldn't be proud of it if it's something that you worked for?
	I might be proud of it, but there's a difference between that and trying to put myself in a situation where I was being sexually provocative towards the opposite sex.
	Can I ask you that question as someone that does fitness?
	Yeah, I was thinking.
	So, honestly, I don't agree because I've seen so many men that have had huge body transformations and then they take their shirt off finally because they never felt comfortable doing that in the first place.
	And they like how they look.
	They're proud of the results that they've got.
	Yeah.
	And same with women.
	A lot of women, they lose a lot of weight and then they, you know.
	Look, I also know ortho bros, okay?
	One of which, his name is David Patrick Carey, Church of the Eternal Logos.
	And this guy is fucking shredded.
	And he does not post sexually provocative pictures of himself, even though he's in, and he definitely had a body transformation.
	He just doesn't do that.
	And the reason he doesn't do that is because he knows that that's going to lead towards validation from the opposite sex, which he doesn't want.
	But I don't, what's provoking?
	If they choose to validate it, they like to see it.
	Good for them.
	That's not why I post it.
	I get that.
	I totally understand.
	And I even believe you.
	I'm trying to take myself and put myself in the shoes of the onlooker.
	So from the outsider's perspective, looking at it, there's no reason for me to conclude that any man who was viewing that wouldn't think that you were trying to get the validation in a two-piece bathing suit.
	None of the bathing suit posted up at the time.
	Okay, I got it.
	But there's no reason that I would assume that any random man viewing that wouldn't think you were looking for sexual validation from men.
	There's no reason for me to think that.
	I think, I see what you're saying, but I think that's also like if you want to get to know me and separate that from my story and why I post that kind of stuff, because I'm proud of myself.
	What about this idea of red flags?
	The whole idea of the red flag is that just based on XXX behavior, whether you try to justify it, for instance, she goes up on the house on Haunted Hill where this guy's fucking serial axe murder her.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	She's like, if this fucking door closes, I am doomed.
	My life is gone.
	This guy's going to hack me up.
	He's going to put me in little pieces and put me in his freezer, right?
	That's what she's thinking in her head.
	Am I wrong?
	Oh, no.
	Massive red flag, right?
	Did he even do anything wrong, though?
	Not really.
	He didn't actually do anything wrong, but he gave like a feeling, a red flag vibe.
	On the daddy thing, that was crazy.
	It was fine.
	That's why I'm like, I don't know.
	No, no, no, no.
	It really wasn't fine.
	When they discussed it, she said he was like, but I'm a good person.
	You can talk to my besties.
	They say I'm the greatest.
	They say I'm phenomenal.
	They say I'm Finn.
	And she wasn't buying none of that shit.
	She was like, nope, I don't fucking believe a word that you're saying.
	And so she's thinking from an outsider's look in, same thing, right?
	They're probably going to think, ah, big red fucking flag.
	I see how it's contradicted.
	You see what I mean?
	I'm not disagreeing with you.
	Well, it's not contradictory.
	I'm just saying that you haven't contradicted yourself.
	I totally believe you.
	You don't post any of those pics for the purpose of male validation.
	I really don't.
	100% believe you.
	But if we can flip the coin for a second.
	I could see the perspective.
	And I don't think that it was inherently wrong.
	I think the way that it was presented was wrong, where he was saying, like, so you don't just post pictures of your boobs for like validation in men.
	Like, that's all you want from it kind of thing.
	And then him assuming from that that I've slept with a bunch of people and all that stuff and deciding not to believe me when I told him no.
	You know what I mean?
	But I don't think there's actually anything wrong with men looking at certain cues that tend to be associated with female promiscuity and just jumping to those conclusions.
	Like if a woman is blasted in tattoos, sternum tattoos, dresses a certain way, I'm going to assume, for example, she's not a virgin.
	We actually had a woman on a show like two weeks ago.
	Andrew, you were there.
	Three girls claimed to be virgins.
	I don't know what the truth was.
	One of them on her Instagram had a sternum tattoo and like a full thing on her side.
	I'm like, could a virgin be blasted in tattoos like that?
	I suppose you don't need to have sex in order to get tattoos, but I'm just going to jump to conclusions anyways as a guy and be like, yes, the red since when does a woman with a sternum tattoo, like, how are you a virgin?
	You think because I post that, it alludes to that I'm not a virgin?
	No, And he wasn't even conflating.
	It was about the sternum.
	Yeah, he's just saying from my perspective, this entire tattoo thing would be a massive red flag that would cause me to disbelieve your motivations.
	Okay.
	Or disbelieve the things that you're saying.
	And so in the same case here with this guy that you're dating, he's thinking the same thing, right?
	Sure.
	Oh, yeah, sure.
	That was for girls because you wanted to show your body value.
	You know what I mean?
	From his perspective, of course you're not going to think that because every other woman who's posting similar pics like this is we're pattern recognition machines, right?
	Yeah.
	And most of them are out humping everything with a penis.
	So they're like, ah, I'm not sure, right?
	Yeah, I could see how it was presented.
	That way, I think it was more the way that he said it is what I took offense to, and the not believing me after conversation was like one of the many red flags that happened all on that same day.
	Gave you the ick.
	He gave me the ick several times.
	He's also just a very not insecure because of the potential slut shaming, but insecure in the fact that he was actually just a very insecure.
	Can you look right at the camera and say, he gave me the ick.
	Which camera do I look at?
	That one.
	That one.
	Which one?
	Which one do I look at?
	Look at this one.
	This one.
	Center?
	Nope, this one.
	Ready?
	We're good?
	There you go.
	One, two, three.
	He gave me the ick.
	The major ick.
	The major ick.
	I do have to move things on here.
	Going to Gracie.
	You said your first boyfriend situationship cheated on you while you were out of town for your sister's wedding.
	You found out through other people texting, asking if we were together and sending me pics of them together.
	So you said first boyfriend/slash situationship was working out well.
	So it was your boyfriend or not your boyfriend?
	On and off, but it was like a high school sophomore year relationship, very immature.
	I didn't know very much.
	He didn't either.
	But we were dating at the time of this happening, but we were like on and off affiliated with each other for like a year, a year and a half.
	So were there any overt communications about monogamy?
	We're just seeing each other.
	This is exclusively.
	We were exclusively seeing each other for the whole like year and a half that we were affiliated.
	Was there an overt conversation about that?
	Yes, multiple times.
	Okay, so we're monogamous, we're just seeing each other.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I mean, he cheated on you.
	So I'm from California.
	My sister lives in Utah.
	She's like nine years older than me.
	She was getting married.
	And once again, like this was in high school.
	So there was an upcoming dance.
	I think it was homecoming or something.
	And in the weeks leading up to the dance, I was like, oh, dang it.
	Like, I can't go.
	My sister's wedding is happening.
	Blah, blah, blah.
	I communicated it.
	And what set it off immediately as just weird was that he asked if he could bring another girl.
	And I was just thrown off in general.
	I was like, first of all, why would you want to?
	Second of all, I don't understand the point because everybody in the group they were going with didn't have a date.
	Like all the guys, if they didn't have a girlfriend, they didn't bring anyone.
	And I would say it's like 50-50 who didn't have girlfriends.
	Wait, he asked you if he could bring another girl.
	Yes.
	He asked me if I could bring another girl and I was like, to the dance.
	Or to the wedding?
	To the dance.
	I was going out of town for the wedding.
	And I was already bummed because, like, again, this was my first guy who's ever really shown interest in me.
	So I was so excited to have like a dance, a guy to go to a dance with, you know?
	But besides the point, I was way more excited for my sister's wedding.
	So I go, I'm just like, okay, I'll make the most of it.
	Like, this is such an exciting thing to be at.
	And the reception and ceremony happened to be the exact same day as the dance.
	So like nighttime rolls around, I'm at the wedding party.
	And I start getting these texts from people.
	And Utah is one hour ahead of California time.
	So I'm getting texts, like the night is winding down while the after party for whatever dance was going on is happening.
	And multiple people like from different friend groups start texting me like, are you guys dating officially?
	Because everybody kind of knew that we were at least affiliated or just with each other and weren't seeing other people.
	So it was just like a weird vibe, I'd imagine, seeing from an outsider's perspective.
	So I was receiving all these texts, just kind of thrown off.
	And I didn't want to talk to him about it immediately because I was just like, this is going to ruin the night that I'm having.
	Like, I don't want to ruin my sister's wedding over this, you know?
	So I let it be.
	And then eventually when I got back to my hotel room, the party was still happening.
	So being a girl that I am, I made a fake Snapchat account.
	Nobody knows this, not even my sister.
	I made a fake Snapchat account.
	I added him.
	And of course, he added me back immediately.
	And I started snapping him like black screens, like trying to talk to him, like engaging in conversation with him.
	And maybe like four snaps in, I'm like, oh, do you have a girlfriend, by the way?
	Just to see what he would say.
	Because I was like, what is he telling this girl?
	Which, by the way, if I'm with a guy at a party and he's snapping a girl he just added on Snapchat, that is so weird.
	Just a bajillion red flags going up regardless.
	But he responds to that with, I don't have a girlfriend.
	And I was just like, okay, I'm lighting his ass up.
	Like, this is not happening, whatever.
	But I decided to, again, keep it calm until I got back home to actually talk to him about it.
	But everything kind of unfolded once I got back home.
	I was just kind of over it.
	And I saw photos from both his phone and two other people who, again, weren't in the same friend group, just happened to snipe them together at the party because they were like, this is wrong.
	She needs to know about it.
	And yeah, I went over to his house, yelled at him to the point where his mom came out and was like, I think it's time to go.
	Like the neighbors can hear you.
	But yeah, that was the end of that.
	And I'm typically not very angry as a person.
	So it took a lot out of me.
	But yeah.
	How did you yell at him?
	Like pretend I'm your ex-boyfriend.
	Oh, I was.
	Go ahead, yell at me.
	I had a whole, like, it wasn't even.
	Let's do it.
	Go ahead.
	I would have to really dial in right now.
	Yeah, dial in.
	I'm trying to think.
	Because I had a whole like list.
	I had a list of things that I was going through that bothered me, that hurt me, just everything.
	And I was just one after another, you know?
	There were bullet points per person.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I had bullet points.
	He got a couple words in, but there wasn't much for him to say anyway.
	But yeah.
	I don't even think I could reenact it.
	How about just the tone?
	What was the tone?
	I don't know.
	It was very therapeutic.
	I can say that.
	But.
	Were you yelling?
	You said you were yelling.
	I was yelling.
	I was yelling.
	Because it started as just a conversation because I genuinely wanted to hear what he had to say.
	To me, it was funny at that point because I was so over it.
	But yeah, the Switch definitely flipped and I started yelling at him pretty like pretty angrily.
	What did he say?
	What does he make?
	He started profusely apologizing after, well, at first he was trying to.
	So he was with, was he just with a girl?
	Like redoing things?
	Yes.
	He like they made out or something.
	Something like that.
	I don't, that's the issue is I still don't even know what fully happened, but I did see a like photo of them like making out.
	So that at least I know that happened.
	You know, exactly.
	Yeah.
	Next thing.
	Okay, your boyfriend lied to you about not being a what?
	So this was my most recent boyfriend.
	And the only like.
	Can you just condense?
	You got to try to condense it.
	Okay.
	So this is the guy I dated for about six months.
	At the beginning of the relationship, he seemed pretty insecure, just like kind of questioned a lot of stuff about me.
	And one of the things he tried to bring up a lot was just like sex and body count and that type of thing.
	And I don't know if he was trying to impress me or show me that he was like experienced or something, which to me kind of put me off.
	But he said that he had, I don't even remember what number it was, but like a decently, like a moderately high body count.
	And I was just like, okay, like I don't really care about that.
	I understand.
	I don't really care.
	And come to find out after everything unfolded that he was a virgin and just never told me.
	And not only did he not tell me, he would like make up stories about these girls.
	And a lot of them I like personally knew because this was a guy who went to the same high school as me.
	So I would like go out and see these people and be like, oh, so he's like had sex with her, he's had sex with her.
	Like, okay, noted.
	And then just, I found out through his friend after we broke up that he was a virgin.
	That's true.
	Which isn't a problem.
	Is not a problem at all.
	It's easier to lie if you lie about it.
	Why are you talking about stories about it?
	Exactly.
	Why would you lie about it?
	Women lie about being virgins all the time.
	But telling in-depth stories with name drops is a little wild.
	But even so, woman or man, like, why would anyone?
	You know, like, he just throw it out like, well, women.
	No, I think that's so crazy.
	Stop, stop, stop.
	One person at a time.
	Go ahead.
	Oh, no, I just think that that is crazy, man or woman doing that.
	That someone would be like making up stories about who they're.
	Oh, and I slept with her, and especially telling stories in depth, like man or woman, that's wrong.
	Yeah.
	It was off-putting to say the least.
	Well, I mean, men would lie about it so that he can be seen as more experienced.
	And then women will lie in the opposite way so they can come off as more innocent or pure or whatever.
	So both are wrong, though.
	Like the best thing is just people to tell the truth.
	I think you should be honest.
	Tell the truth about how many you slept with.
	I think it's also one thing to be like, say it to number, like, oh, like, I slept with two girls, but telling like in-depth stories and saying people that you know and we all know are the ones that he had slept with.
	Were you a virgin?
	Yes, at the time, yeah.
	You were both virgins.
	No.
	Right?
	Okay.
	Yeah, they're both virgins.
	Because I could maybe, like, I could sort of understand the justification of a man, like, if he's dating a girl who's not a virgin and he's a virgin, he wouldn't want, like, again, I think you should tell the truth, but I can sort of understand, understand it a little bit.
	Not saying it's right, but you said love bombing and how easy it can be to be blind to it.
	This is the same guy.
	Okay, can you be brief, though?
	Yeah.
	I mean, it's just kind of general stuff.
	Again, he was like the second guy who gave me a lot of male attention, and I thought it was great, whatever.
	Like, he's really into me.
	This is great.
	He like acknowledges things that I don't think most people see about me.
	And I just felt really seen and understood and supported.
	And it ended up being a lot of manipulation that I was kind of blind to until it was way too late.
	And then even at that point, like, this is the guy I tried to break up with like three months in.
	At that point, even after I broke up with him, because subconsciously, well, not subconsciously, consciously, I knew that it was not good for me, that something was going wrong.
	After I tried to, I was like broken down and I didn't, like, I genuinely thought my life was like going to be nothing without him, like, all these just toxic thoughts.
	And after a lot of like thoughts on that, I realized that it was all just love bombing.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You said specifically for the women dating to decide if you like the guy, not if he likes you, or trying to fit the mold you think he wants you to fit.
	Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of says it all.
	It's super easy to go out with somebody and be like, oh, do they like me?
	Like, I wonder what they think about me, especially as a girl.
	Like, we are taught to appease people, especially men just growing up.
	And I think it's really easy to fall into that instead of thinking, like, oh, how will this guy be able to further my life, you know?
	Well, hold on.
	But it's not clear to me as a woman if you would even give a fuck if, like, you wouldn't, if you don't like the guy, why would you give a fuck if he likes you or not?
	So the only scenario where you would come to this, like, does he like me thing?
	Because I hear this thing of like, you shouldn't worry if like the guy likes you.
	You have to think, do I like the guy?
	Right?
	Because that's what you wrote, dating to decide if you like the guy.
	But you're only going to be thinking that if you like the guy.
	No, no.
	Can I add something?
	You're going to just try to fuck a guy you don't like?
	No, no.
	I think that what, no.
	I think that what that means, what that means is some women, let's say they are.
	Oh, no, I'll let you say your thing.
	Yeah.
	No, let's say someone's going for validation that maybe they are liking this validation they're getting from this person, giving them this attention, this love bone, they're going, wow, this is so great.
	Oh, like, because they are receiving this love.
	So the question is, rather than just looking, oh, and am I pretty enough?
	Am I good?
	Am I skinny?
	Am I this enough for this person?
	Hey, take a pause, woman.
	Look at this guy.
	Who is he?
	What does he do?
	Do you like it?
	Do you guys have things in common?
	Rather than getting caught up in the fact that he's giving you all this love and attention.
	That's, I think, what the core is of all that.
	Okay, hold on.
	This is crazy.
	Right?
	Am I right?
	Exactly.
	Thank you.
	That was part of that.
	No, no, no.
	That's actually crazy.
	That's actually crazy because women are bombarded with attention and validation.
	And you guys have no issue curving, ignoring, and rejecting those men.
	Right?
	Bro, like, you think if I just show interest in a girl, that's enough to get her to like me back?
	Hell no.
	Women are way more picky than men are.
	Women ask for way more than men do.
	So how could it possibly be the case that I don't even see how that makes any sense?
	Well, I don't know if I could necessarily explain it further, but literally every single one just nodded like, oh, yes, it's 100% relatable.
	If anyone can add on to it, it's like platitude.
	It's like an empty platitude.
	You got to figure out if you like the guy.
	I think.
	Not like, does he like, like, it doesn't make any sense.
	It's more like, do you, not based off of like, not just initial attraction.
	We're talking about people I think in general, if we can all agree, that were already initially physically attracted to.
	It's, do you like the attention that they're giving you and the validation and they're saying the right things to you?
	So it makes you think, oh, like I can really see a future with this guy.
	If you want to him, you wouldn't care.
	But we're not saying that fucking the guy.
	We're talking about like going into a relationship, like seeing if it's worth going into a relationship with, right?
	But if the things weren't there that made you attracted to him, there would be no questioning.
	But we're saying like on a deeper level, not just physical.
	Like is he not just giving me attention and validation?
	I find him physically attractive.
	Is there something deeper here?
	Can we have good conversation?
	Is he a man that I could see being in my future?
	Or is he just giving me the attention that I need right now?
	I think that's the kind of difference.
	You get what I'm saying?
	I mean, is that confusing?
	A little bit.
	A little bit.
	Because I think the part that's throwing you off is like, or does he just like me?
	It's more like he's saying the right things and giving me the attention and I am physically attracted to him.
	But is there something like deeper here like that?
	And an actual connection.
	And is it just word without action backed up?
	And then now you as a woman are projecting all these things into the future.
	And oh, and what the wedding's going to be like.
	And then it's just like, whoa, pull it back.
	Look at this guy.
	What does his Monday through Friday look like?
	Is he just playing video games 24-7?
	Does he have a job?
	Like, are these words just empty words with no promises?
	Is he saying that to seven other women right now?
	Like, you know what I'm saying?
	Like, it's like a man could be giving me attention, and I could be like someone could have like a hole in their heart almost, like, there's something missing.
	So then a man's giving you this attention.
	You are almost for a time, it's this, it's an instant gratification.
	Oh, yay!
	Oh, that, oh, that's great.
	But it's like, rather than just jumping into a relationship with that person, which people can do because it feels good, this instant gratification, you can pause and actually assess who that person is.
	And is there something more there?
	Or is this someone who you're, in a way, just using to fill a void where you don't have to face yourself and whatever struggles you're facing inside?
	Bars.
	Don't feel like that's dating.
	It's like liking the idea of a guy versus actually liking him.
	So just dating, I just don't understand this whole, like, I shouldn't be focused on if he likes me.
	I need to figure out if I like him.
	Yeah.
	Like, I think it's just easy to get lost in the idea of like, oh, this guy's into me, so I have to be into him back.
	Women are, hold on.
	This is maybe something that can apply to men, but women are bombarded with sexual and romantic attention.
	So you guys have no problem curving and rejecting guys who are into you.
	You do it all the time.
	So I don't understand that.
	You're saying every single guy who shows interest in you, you end up dating them?
	No.
	You're an attractive woman.
	You're all attractive women.
	Well, hold on.
	I'm one of us is a tens.
	Everyone's.
	Sorry.
	You're all tens.
	You're all tens.
	Damn.
	You're all tens.
	Brutality.
	You're all attractive women.
	I'm sure you have a lot of potential suitors.
	I'm sure you have a lot if you're on Instagram dating apps, in person, whatever.
	I'm sure there's no shortage of men who find you attractive, who'd want to date you.
	I'm also sure that there's no shortive of men.
	No shortage.
	God damn.
	Sorry, I swear, it's the champagne.
	I'm drunk.
	That strong ass.
	It's actually German champagne.
	So there's no shortage of.
	Why can't I say this word?
	There's no shortage of men you just reject.
	But we're saying only if we're not going to have initially.
	We're saying only guys that we find attractive initially, though.
	And then you're going to have a different men.
	It's like, do you like him on a deeper level?
	Oh, no.
	You're attractive.
	You like a guy who you find physically attractive.
	Heaven forbid.
	No, no, we're not talking about just like sleeping with the guy.
	We're talking about having an establishing actual relationship.
	I think you guys are arguing past each other.
	So you're essentially saying the same thing, just in different ways.
	So Brian's right.
	He's saying, listen, if the attraction in this type of thing wasn't there to begin with, then you wouldn't give a shit if this person had any reciprocal interest or not.
	And so that's true.
	I don't think that there's any way that that cannot be true.
	But if what you mean by this is even if that interest is reciprocal, I still have to make a decision as to whether I actually do like him, then I don't think that there's any conflict here.
	I think that that makes sense on both angles.
	Is that what's going on?
	Yeah, I think.
	That's like literally what going on a date is.
	You're going on a date to find out if you vibe with someone.
	I don't care how it's like a 10-minute discussion.
	Anyways, I will move it on a little bit.
	But going back to more of your notes, Gracie, you got some bombs in here.
	You just kind of intuit some things, right?
	It's like, yeah, what is she right?
	She's got bombs.
	Some of them I may not want to elaborate on.
	Sure.
	You think women and men play very different roles in relationships, and leaning into a role is what can make a relationship long-lasting, healthy, and fulfilling for both parties.
	So what are the different roles?
	I mean, I think we kind of went into this with like the whole chasing whatever type of thing, but especially when it comes to like women just naturally being more emotional, like I think it's important for women to tap into that and allow for a man to be a like supporter, you know?
	Like what do you mean?
	I don't want to say supporter, more like a provider.
	I'm listening to you bicker.
	No, I kind of mean it the opposite way.
	Like women should emotionally support men while women can.
	Like we have a strong suit in emotionally supporting people as a whole and specifically men.
	Well, they typically would provide.
	And I think that is great.
	Why did you laugh at that?
	I wouldn't have much of a podcast.
	I thought you were laughing at the whole like women emotionally supporting men.
	You wouldn't have much of a podcast if we all just sat here quiet, though.
	True.
	Oh, I'm not talking about that.
	I'm talking about in a relationship.
	In general, I don't argue about dating dynamics with like if I'm dating a girl, it's the last thing I want to do when I'm dating somebody.
	But it's okay.
	Women, they support their man.
	Isn't it the opposite, though?
	Men are like, women are emotionally.
	You cheated on me in a dream.
	Oh, fuck you.
	Oh, you cheated.
	It's your fault.
	I dreamt of you cheating on me.
	Yeah, I've done that a couple times.
	Oh, you've done it.
	Yeah, I was dating a girl once, and she was like, now make me feel better about my dreams.
	Now make me feel better about my dreams.
	But I think it's important to feel that and to like, not that specific example, but to tap into your emotions as a woman.
	Wait, so what are the different roles, though?
	Like, so the woman emotionally supports.
	I don't have a fully fledged out argument on this.
	you think about that I think that in a marriage I think that well who said anything about marriage I think in a marriage.
	I need it on the first date.
	Nick, pull up the mouth video.
	Oh, my gosh.
	I need this on the first date.
	First date.
	I think it depends on the type of woman to begin with, but typically.
	Tip it down.
	Go ahead, Arnold.
	Like, for myself, I would be so happy to raise children and be fulfilled in that way.
	But once again, I can't speak for every woman, and I don't mean to, you know?
	Well, you can still be submissive before you're married.
	But you think I'm here to learn and change my mind, so please.
	How do you say submissive in German?
	I don't know.
	You don't know?
	I don't know.
	You don't know?
	Do you know what I'm talking about though?
	Say it in another one.
	Well, why did you laugh?
	What was funny?
	Because you're looking at her and then.
	Wait, I'm what?
	You were looking at her and then the irony of me being dominatrix.
	We're talking about submissive women.
	Wait.
	Is that?
	I don't think that was.
	No, I was just curious.
	I didn't even make that connection.
	I don't know.
	Was it the way I was looking at her?
	I'm not sure what's going on.
	I was looking at you?
	No, I just.
	I just started laughing because you were looking at her.
	Oh, like from five minutes ago?
	From five minutes ago?
	Yeah.
	Like the 10 thing, and then I'm.
	I'm so fucking lost right now.
	I don't know what's going on.
	It was like a delayed.
	Hold on.
	It was like a.
	Like, five minutes later.
	No, it's good.
	Wait, it's okay.
	That's kind of all I have to elaborate on.
	But like, should women be submissive to men?
	Like a guy.
	I don't want to take a polarized stance on that because I think take a polarized stance.
	I don't want to.
	You can, though.
	but I don't want to.
	And I think that like the hot button issue being submissive.
	I don't think that's pretty tame.
	I just don't want to speak for people who might feel differently than me, you know?
	You can.
	For me personally, for me personally, I would love to be a stay-at-home mom and be submissive to my husband.
	But I'm not going to say that that's right for every woman.
	No, you can say that's it.
	I don't want to, and I'm not going to.
	Say it with your chest.
	Disagree.
	I'm not going to.
	Say it with your chest.
	Well, let me ask it a different way.
	Do you think that the results for most women, if they followed the idea of being a stay-at-home mom and submission to their husband, that the results for most of them would probably be good?
	Yeah.
	I think in general, that is what brings women the most fulfillment.
	Yeah.
	But I do think that that may be different for some people, and that's why I don't want to know.
	Now, Brian, another way that this could be said, just so you know, is that she thinks most women should be submissive.
	I just want to let you know that.
	Okay.
	So now both of you got what you want to do.
	Thank you.
	Wait, is it like, is that a bad thing to say?
	No, we're trying to say it.
	That's what I'm saying.
	You can say it.
	I just don't want to speak to people who are.
	I think that you could also be submissive and have a career and be a woman.
	I think you're right.
	I think you could be submissive and have a career unless your husband said, I don't want you to have a career.
	I think being submissive and independent.
	I'm not going to be able to him, that would be what?
	That would be the opposite of submission, right?
	What I would define submission as is that it's a discussion between the, like, say there's an issue, it's a discussion, but ultimately, if the man is financially responsible for the family and is the leader of the family, that he takes doesn't sound like submission.
	If he makes the final decision, how's that not submissive?
	Well, because what if he doesn't want your input on the decision?
	Okay, then no.
	Okay, well then I don't know.
	Well then, hang on, that's really weird.
	Because that sounds like, it sounds to me like if he doesn't want your input on it at all, and then he goes, not on everything, but just maybe one thing or two things.
	That's fine.
	If he's just like, yeah, I don't fucking care what you think about this.
	I'm going to do this.
	I think it depends on what the matter is.
	If it's like where the kids are going to school or where we're living, I would like to have some sort of opinion.
	Yeah, but what if I think that's just a lack of respect?
	I'll say a lack of respect.
	I don't think it's submission.
	How is it lack of respect?
	If you are not giving a fuck about what your partner thinks in some instances, yeah, I wouldn't give a shit about it.
	I would not want to.
	I thought about all kinds of things.
	I wouldn't about what she thought about all sorts of different things.
	I wouldn't give a fuck.
	But here's the thing: why should I?
	Why ultimately if ultimately I'm the decision maker, if there's certain things that I don't want her in.
	Because you don't care about how she feels or her opinion then?
	Because ultimately, regardless of how she feels or her opinion, I'm going to do it anyway.
	I mean, I think that's a lack of respect.
	Why is that lack of respect?
	Because you're not respecting her feelings or what she would maybe want.
	Even though it's ultimately a feeling of a feeling.
	Well, then it sounds to me like you don't really want submission.
	You want equality.
	And then that's fine.
	It's equality where he pays for everything.
	And then occasionally you'll let him have the final say.
	Isn't that kind of?
	No, occasionally.
	No.
	I'm still saying he can have the final say as long as if it's a conversation that we can have.
	Well, let's find out.
	So you're with your husband.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And you're like, I want the kids to go over here because it's 15 minutes closer.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And that's going to make my day possible.
	Otherwise, I'm going to have to rearrange everything.
	It's going to be a big fucking pain in the ass.
	Blah, I want him to go here.
	And he says, yeah, I want him to go to this other school, though.
	Why?
	Yeah.
	And he says, because I do.
	Sorry, buddy.
	Ah, yeah.
	So that doesn't sound like submission to me.
	That sounds like I have to convince you that I'm right and have you okay it.
	That's what that sounds like to me.
	This is the thing.
	I would like to play a more submissive role in my marriage.
	Maybe not complete submission, but a more submissive royal role.
	No, that's not submission.
	That's just egalitarian bullshit.
	You're masking as submission.
	When I give you an example of a time where he says, I don't need to justify this.
	This is what's going to happen.
	Say, ah, well, it's not going to happen because you gave me no justification.
	Hang on, let me finish and I'll let you talk.
	You gave an example where he says, I don't need to give you a justification for this thing.
	I just need it done, and I'm the decision maker.
	You said, Nope, that ain't gonna fly.
	I never said it's not gonna happen.
	I just think I wouldn't want to be a part of a marriage with someone that doesn't value my marriage.
	Yeah, that you have to submit to.
	I get it.
	But I would want to submit to them, just have as long as they did exactly what you want.
	You would submit.
	Fantastic.
	I'm saying that I'm fine with them making the ultimate decision if it coincides with everything else.
	I would like there to be some logic behind it.
	Them just saying, Because I want to is not like how wait.
	Why does a person you're submitted to need to justify their logic to you?
	Because I think that's basic respect.
	Oh, okay.
	It's basic respect.
	But even if they say, I don't want to justify the logic to you, I just want this done, right?
	You say, No.
	I'm not doing that unless it's within the purview of what I want.
	You're missing.
	I'm not saying no.
	What I'm saying is I wouldn't be in a marriage with someone.
	Right.
	That you would have to submit to.
	No.
	So it's not passed down.
	Submission.
	Sorry.
	I think you can have that is fine.
	She's allowed to have her own definition of marriage.
	She can have a definition of submission as long as submission doesn't mean submission.
	I'll admit that it's not complete submission, but I would like to be a more submissive role in my marriage.
	Is that a good stance?
	Oh, yeah.
	If you say I'd like to be more submissive, but I would just kind of add the qualifier: as long as you can justify to me what it is that you want to do and I agree with it, then that's the kind of marriage because that's what you're actually saying you want.
	I feel like it's beyond just that.
	It's basic respect, like she said.
	What's that?
	It's basic respect, like she said, which I know that you disagree with, and that's fine, but if you're not going to, at the end of the day, that is.
	I don't understand.
	What about the respect the other way for the person who's to have an open conversation about it?
	We're having an extra point.
	The most respectful thing you can do is adhere to my word.
	So if that's the most respectful thing you do is adhere to my word, not question it, then how are you respecting me as my wife?
	I'm asking for different definitions of respect, different definitions of respect.
	No, we have the same definition of respect.
	I'm saying that respect means one thing to you when it comes to how you're treated.
	I'm saying that there's also treatment the other direction.
	You're assuming that a man wants to be respected the same way you do.
	He doesn't.
	He has a whole different value structure of how he wants you to respect him.
	How do you show respect to your wife?
	Yeah.
	Oh, all sorts of ways, right?
	I basically give her whatever the hell she wants.
	I adore her.
	Absolutely adore her.
	Give her whatever the hell she wants, but you have the ultimate decision.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, but here's the thing: the reason that I do this is because if I say, this is what ultimately is going to happen, that's the last word in it, and I don't even want to have the fucking conversation.
	We don't.
	We don't.
	Now, she may really want to, and I can tell sometimes that she really does, but I don't fucking care because it's my decision ultimately.
	So you don't care about how she feels?
	Oh, no, I didn't say I didn't care how she feels.
	I just don't care to have her question my authority autonomy over the marriage.
	I don't have her.
	I don't care to have her.
	Was there an initial conversation prior to that, or is it just like, we're doing this, don't ask me?
	It depends on the context.
	I would say more for like bigger decisions in life, not necessarily like little things.
	Like, I think it's even larger decisions.
	If ultimately, I were to say, let's say I went home and I said, we're moving to Nevada in three weeks.
	Get your bags packed, and I'm not going to have a fucking, I don't want to hear a word about it.
	You're doing it, and that's the way it's going.
	You think that's respectful?
	W I think that ultimately it's my choice and not hers.
	Okay, and how she shows me respect.
	Yeah, that's how she shows me respect.
	That's how that feels.
	That's respectful.
	What the?
	I mean, I don't think that's what I'm saying.
	I don't think we're going to change each other's opinion.
	So I think it's fine.
	Well, okay, from a biblical worldview, what does submission mean?
	Being true in faith that man has the ultimate decision.
	Yeah.
	And hang on, hang on.
	Does it say that a woman is to adhere to the word of her man like she would unto the Lord?
	It does say that.
	And does the Lord need to justify fucking anything to you?
	He does.
	What?
	I think the whole Bible's a justification of his moral.
	Wait, so if the Lord came down and said, I need you to walk down the fifth avenue.
	Absolutely not.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait, hang on.
	Why?
	Then I don't understand.
	How are you submitting to your husband?
	Because hang on.
	Like you are unto the Lord if the Lord doesn't have to justify himself, but your husband does.
	Because I have complete and full trust in the Lord and He's a perfect person.
	So aren't you supposed to obey your husband like you're supposed to?
	The Bible also says we're not perfect people.
	So you're basically just your cop-out is, yeah, God wants me to, but I'm not perfect.
	That's your cop-out.
	No, I'm saying my husband isn't perfect.
	But what does God instruct you to do with your husband?
	What if there was something that?
	But what does God instruct you to do with your husband?
	I'm not going to let you avoid it.
	What is he instructing you to do?
	Be completely submissive.
	to be completely submissive.
	But what I'm saying is if you came, I'm assuming you and your wife are both Christian.
	Yeah.
	What if there was something that was just such like goes completely against the Bible that you wanted to do and she tried to explain to you?
	Well, then in that case, it would not comport with reason or faith.
	And so, like, if my...
	All I want is reason behind it.
	So, for instance, well, no, it's not a lack of reason to tell you to do thing.
	That's not unreasonable.
	Even not giving you a justification is not unreasonable.
	What would be unreasonable is if he was like, we're going to go out tonight and we're going to take a baby and sacrifice it to Satan.
	That would not comport with the reason and the nature of God.
	So that's a huge distinction.
	But what if she can't say no if she's supposed to be completely submissive to her husband?
	No, she can say no if it doesn't comport to the nature and reason of God.
	Yeah, she can say no.
	But that ain't going to be where your kids go to school, is it?
	That ain't going to be where your kids go to subject.
	But if I think that God's really calling me that they need to go to this Christian school and they need to do this, and my husband said, nope, sending them to public school.
	Well, if you think that God married you up to the person who he also told you to submit to, but wants you to question him every chance you get and have him justify his decisions to you, right?
	And then you go to him and say, God told me X. That's fair.
	God told me he wants him to go here.
	What if your husband says, oh, well, God told me you're stupid and wrong and they're going over here?
	What would your justification then be from your reasonable brain?
	What would you say then?
	Well, I feel like that's an unreasonable statement.
	Oh, I feel like it's unreasonable to go to him and say, God told me X against your will.
	And he says, that's great.
	But there's logic behind that.
	Being like, I want my kids to be raised in a Christian school and this, that, and that.
	You get what I'm saying?
	Yeah, but the logic also is the computation of adhering to your husband's word.
	But I'm not saying that it's a definite no.
	I'm not saying that.
	I'm saying I would like to say that.
	No, no, no.
	What do you mean?
	It's a definite no.
	It's not your decision.
	It's his decision.
	What I'm saying is, I would like to be a part of the conversation and him make the ultimate decision.
	And you know what?
	That would be awesome if he lets you be part of the conversation.
	What a great and swell guy.
	Yeah.
	But he doesn't need to if you're submitted to him.
	That's the point.
	I'm not saying he does.
	Yeah.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm just saying I would like to.
	And I think that a man that I would want to marry would keep me a part of that conversation out of kindness and respect.
	Right.
	So you just, you would move over to your preference of liberated woman, right?
	No.
	Okay.
	Well, two things, Nick.
	Pull up the umbrella thing, then I got to move it on.
	So I guess this is the biblical order of the family.
	Christ, husband, wife, children.
	Do you agree?
	Do you agree with this chart?
	This is like what's priority in your life?
	Or what do you mean?
	So my explanation for this would be that Christ and the adherence to Christ word would be the top in the hierarchy of the family unit.
	Yes, I'm hoping that.
	You and I would agree on that.
	I would 100% agree on that.
	The next would come that the representation of Christ in a marriage is the man who is the head of the marriage.
	Oh, so that was like who's in order of like the marriage?
	Yeah, so I'm just to explain it, though, is that the woman represents the body of the church and the man the head.
	100%.
	And so the man is representing the head of Christ.
	That's his representation role in the marriage.
	And then the woman is representing the body of Christ.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And so then the woman's direct responsibility is the children and the husband, husband's responsibility is a flagship decision maker for all of that.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So then.
	Disagreement, no.
	So then put that chart back up.
	Do you ever need to justify, or does the top of that list, the Christ head, ever need to justify shit to you?
	No, because he's perfect.
	Okay.
	It never needs to justify anything to you ever, right?
	Christ?
	Yeah, the top of it.
	Absolutely not, no.
	Okay, what comes next?
	Husband.
	Okay, now explain to me why your husband does have to.
	Gracie, why are you dissing Riley after two years?
	Bro's innocent.
	He ain't do nothing.
	Also, Natalie, do you need some food?
	Ain't no way this 40-year-old bum with gray hair talking to these girls, Brian, a blank for real?
	Okay.
	Wait, Natalie, why do you need to?
	I don't get that.
	I don't get my part, but...
	Oh, wow.
	Okay.
	Hey.
	That's the, I've gotten that joke a lot, Natalie, too.
	Oh, definitely.
	My last name's How, but people mispronounce it Hawk.
	They spent their own money on that.
	That's what I was thinking.
	I was like, why do you have friends to get it?
	Hey, Riley, hey.
	Okay.
	Cool.
	Anyway.
	What were we talking about?
	Nothing on there.
	On the husband head, why does he have to justify to you again?
	Because I think, again, not saying he has to, but I think it would be very respectful and kind.
	Yeah, well, I mean, I agree.
	It would be nice if it wasn't.
	It would be nice.
	And I think someone that I would want to marry.
	I'm not advocating that they need to.
	Not necessarily.
	Yeah, okay.
	Yeah, that was it.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Let's do the dating app reviews.
	Let's start with, let me read this.
	Actually, I got to read two chats.
	She already had the chance of submitting to a man.
	He wanted her to dress modestly and remove provocative photos off her Instagram.
	She chose to call him insecure instead, egalitarian bullshit.
	never called him insecure for not wanting what I was wearing.
	I was also not I was not girlfriend and boyfriend with him.
	I would submit to a man if he's girlfriend.
	So you got to pay on the first date?
	Yeah.
	So why do you have an expectation that a man fall into his traditional gender roles immediately, first date, but if he's starting to have these expectations of you on your end, you have objections?
	When you submit to a man, it should be someone that you trust and you know is so why should you pay for a girl on a first date?
	Well that that actually avoids his question though.
	The question is if the expectation is that he falls into a traditional gender role, that's the expectation from your end.
	Why shouldn't his expectation be immediately on the first date you also do?
	Because we have no sense of loyalty to.
	Oh wait, you're saying like, why wouldn't I submit to him initially?
	No, if your expectation, I'm not asking for commitment submission.
	Yeah.
	But if the expectation of gender role is from their perspective Christian like your own, then they would expect that you not dress provocatively, et cetera, et cetera, right?
	So after talking to a guy for like a week, I'm just supposed to delete every single thing I've seen.
	Only if your expectation is that he falls into a traditional gender role.
	So you're saying that a traditional gender role for a woman would be that they don't have these things posted?
	That's what I'm kind of confused.
	I mean, probably not, but even if we were to grant that they did, just the dressing provocatively and this kind of thing, if they said, okay, well, my preference is for you not to do that even on the first date, if your expectation is that they pay, that seems fair.
	That seems like the expectation of gender role is at that point complete, right?
	That he expects me to dress more modestly.
	Sure.
	If your expectation is that he fucking pays for everything.
	I'm not saying he pays for everything.
	Well, what do you pay for on a date?
	I wouldn't be offended if he asked to split or anything.
	Oh, man.
	He just went.
	He just went real modern.
	You just went real modern.
	Okay, no, no, no.
	Here's the thing.
	I wouldn't be like, if he was like having trouble with money or whatever it is, like, maybe let's not go out.
	Maybe let's go somewhere else.
	Like, I'm open to things, but what I was, I just don't see how that correlates.
	Because of the expectation of the gender role.
	I would like to hear you.
	Oh, I probably wouldn't be able to explain it better than he did.
	I mean, it's just like, if you're expecting him to pay on the first date and do all the things that a man is supposed to do, he's supposed to just automatically just do it.
	Why can't you just automatically do what you're supposed to do?
	Is what he's saying.
	So you're saying as a woman, I'm supposed to dress more automatically.
	Like, if he expects you to dress more modestly, it would be kind of like that.
	It wouldn't be an automatic submission because the idea of marriage, because marriage is a sacrament.
	It's not just, you know, from the Christian worldview, it's sacramental.
	Yes.
	So, no, you're not going to do a sacramental marriage with a guy in the first date.
	But if the expectation is that you follow a more traditional female gender role, then shouldn't you be, I don't know, a bit more meek?
	Let him not only lead on the date, but kind of, you know, in this way also not dress as provocatively.
	Like, those would be all the kind of typical traditional gender.
	That's what I'm kind of confused about.
	On the date, I wasn't dressed provocatively, and I wasn't actively posting that.
	No, no, no, but I mean, you, that's your view.
	If his determination, in his mind, if he deems it to be provocative.
	But on the other hand, I mean, do you think your bikini photos are provocative?
	I wasn't posting that.
	Okay, no, no, no.
	Just answer that question, though.
	You probably don't think they're provocative, right?
	Not really, no.
	Right, so your sense of what, just by, I know you posted those after your date, but your own sense of what is provocative and what is not provocative does not compute with what he finds right.
	So he would probably say that is provocative to post bikinis photos.
	I mean, that's fair, and he's looking for different things than I was, and that's why I didn't.
	Right, but if you're going to be submissive, your idea of what is provocative or not provocative is irrelevant.
	I agree, but I will only be submissive when I'm in a committed relationship with someone else.
	Right, but so here's a question.
	Let's say you are in a committed relationship, and the man says, I find these photos to be provocative, and you just ideal it, in your head, you're like, no way, that's not provocative.
	I 100% disagree.
	I don't view it as provocative at all.
	Will you be submissive to him even though you disagree with his assessment of the provocativeness?
	I think at a point where I'm in a committed relationship like that, probably won't be when I'm this age and like ought to be able to do that.
	So I don't think I wouldn't be posting that in the first place.
	You didn't answer the question, so let's try again.
	So you have photos posted to your Instagram.
	You don't say take them down.
	You don't think they're provocative.
	He does.
	If it's something that really upsets him, yeah, I would take him down.
	No, it doesn't even upset him that much.
	He just doesn't want you to have them up.
	Sure, if he's uncomfortable with it, I would take it down.
	Would you fight him on it?
	Because you have a difference of view when it comes to it.
	If it's something, if I really respect him and want to be submissive to this guy and I really trust him, I think that he's a faith-based man of God, then if he said that he's uncomfortable with it or whatever, I would take it down.
	Okay.
	Did you want me to have a different answer?
	No, no.
	I'm still confused, though, about like you had objections to him having these comments.
	I mean, you kind of already just went over it, but you'd want a guy to pay for the first date, do all these things, et cetera, et cetera.
	You expect that immediately, but you took issue with him kind of trying to put in a boundary there when it came to your.
	But it wasn't, I think, where we're having like differing here is that it wasn't said in a like, this is something that makes me uncomfortable or whatever.
	Like, it was more of a like, basically, you're a slut.
	Fair enough.
	You know what I mean?
	It wasn't like a conversation.
	It was just, you're a slut.
	Okay, then why are you on a date with me?
	I would like to note, though, before Brian moves it on, just this one last thing.
	When we're talking about submission from a religious Christian sense, would you agree with me that the reason that this is in place specifically is so that if decisions are made that you don't like, even with or without your consent, essentially, that the purpose of this is to say it doesn't matter because ultimately you're putting your trust.
	Ewas sees the pagan donated $200.
	Blonde you just admit that you're a closet feminist and brain hum was him saying bullshit.
	I'm not a feminist.
	Thank you, pagan.
	Let that be known.
	Go ahead then.
	Oh, I was just saying that the purpose of this for why you almost it's blind submission in a way to your husband.
	Yeah.
	That specifically it's so that when these big decisions do come up, that you may fight him tooth and nail on because you can be such an influence on his decision making.
	That the reason that you really shouldn't question the decision making much is because it actually hampers his ability to lead properly.
	I agree with that.
	And I was talking about this with literally my parents the other day.
	My mom would have said that.
	Two butting heads and that didn't work.
	Yeah, but if you agree.
	That's why I would say if it's okay.
	But if you agree with that, then even by the standard of how you view reason, it does actually comport with reason for him to make decisions and not discuss them with you.
	Sure, I've never looked at it that way, but yeah.
	Right?
	Sure, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	All right, really quick.
	We have some supers to read, but first, Nick, could you pull up?
	Actually, just go to Twitch.
	Guys, twitch.tv slash whatever, drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one, twitch.tv slash whatever.
	By the way, it looks like a crucible rated us.
	Oh, in the YouTube chat?
	Yes.
	Oh, awesome.
	I don't know if that was Rachel or somebody else.
	Yeah, that was Rachel.
	Oh, awesome.
	Thank you, Rachel.
	Appreciate it.
	Good to see you guys in the chat, Crucible Crew.
	Guys, twitch.tv slash whatever if you can get that pulled up.
	Guys, if you're watching on Twitch, drop us a follow.
	If you're watching on YouTube, drop us a follow, open up another tab.
	Also, drop us a prime sub if you have one.
	Drop us a prime sub if you have one.
	It's been an hour since we last had one.
	I think it's bugged.
	Help?
	Help?
	Yeah.
	And then, cool.
	And then I need to.
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	Hold on.
	No time.
	Okay.
	Maddie, can you read these?
	Sure.
	Thank you, Andrew, for fighting against their brainwashing.
	These women don't even realize the extent of it, starting from Sesame Street on humans making babies are bad.
	Humans that don't are smart.
	Actually, Lil Paladin, he makes a good point against the kind of anti-natalist mindset which has gripped society.
	You know, Lil Paladins, you're a really good contributor to the show, too.
	I appreciate that, man.
	It's very kind of you.
	Yeah, thank you, man.
	And then he has another one.
	Question for Brian.
	How many male comments does she get on her Instagram versus how many women comment on her sexy photos?
	Who is really validating her?
	Can I answer this?
	Yeah.
	Zero men actually comment on that.
	If you want to go look at the posts, it's usually just all my girlfriends.
	Yeah, there's usually no male comments.
	But you can check it if you want.
	Okay.
	All right.
	We have Lol Paladins again.
	Hey, thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	She already had a chance of submitting to a man.
	He wanted her to dress modestly and remove provocative photos off her Instagram.
	She chose to call him insecure instead, egalitarian bull.
	We already read that.
	We already read that one.
	And also, the insecure was separate from the dressing model.
	You already explained.
	Yeah, I don't even know what that is.
	Let me get into more of the notes here.
	We had the dating apps, but one was from Yellow.
	Or who were the dating apps from?
	Okay, just pull them up.
	We'll do those quick.
	Huh?
	The bow radio?
	We could do the bow, but let's do the dating app first.
	Okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	You check these, right?
	They're fine.
	Yeah, they are.
	Okay, best travel story: dance off with a crackhead at the pirate bar in Tampa.
	Okay, next.
	Oh, who the kick.
	26, micro-celebrity.
	You're a micro-celebrity.
	Yeah, known by many, but not by most.
	Okay, cool.
	Next.
	Jack off all trades.
	Jack off.
	Joke, yeah.
	Green flags I look for.
	Okay.
	My simple pleasure, having a full pack of dude wipes.
	Okay, nice.
	Next.
	Or is that it?
	What the fuck is a dude wipe?
	It's like a wet wipe, but for dudes.
	Whatever, I don't know.
	Oh, wait.
	Say pencil, but replace the sill with his relaxed liberals.
	It's a card.
	Dark humor.
	Okay, all right.
	Wait, liberal?
	Are you voting Trump?
	No, I'm not.
	Man, I thought there was hope.
	Thank you all for that.
	Thank all the people that asked this table.
	Was there a question?
	Okay.
	What was the next dating app?
	Next dating app?
	I don't.
	I'm not even registered to vote yet.
	Okay, it wasn't.
	Okay.
	I need you.
	Let's have you read the prompts.
	Okay.
	So there's a picture of me.
	Then it says, a life goal of mine, travel to all the national parks in a campervan and write my novels whilst doing so, little smiley face.
	Okay.
	27.
	Not political.
	Figuring out my dating goals, monogamy.
	Bye.
	Okay.
	Voting Trump.
	I don't know who I'm voting for.
	Probably not Trump.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I don't really know a lot about politics.
	Pictures of me.
	I'll pick the topic you're sorry.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	Is that it?
	You can read these.
	Okay.
	It goes on the next picture.
	It has the full thing.
	The hallmark of a good relationship is growth mindset, being aware of ego, know how to apologize and take accountability, humor, laughter, gratitude, spontaneity, some similar hobbies, some different hobbies.
	Don't try to change the other person.
	I don't know, man.
	That sounds like a lot of work.
	Damn.
	Okay, cool.
	You really think you shouldn't try to change another person?
	Change in terms of growth.
	Sure, you guys are going to impact each other and you're going to grow being together.
	That's what's going to happen.
	But like not change.
	What I mean by that is like if I have been with someone and then my mental health and my personhood is actually getting worse because that's not the right relationship with me.
	Like so instead of trying to like change someone to be different than who they are, you know what I'm saying?
	Yeah, but I think the idea of self and who you are, you probably agree with this, is pretty wide, right?
	There's a lot of variables that make you you.
	So I would say, like a person who has no ambition who wakes up with ambition is a different person.
	Right.
	Wouldn't you?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So that would be positive change in a relationship.
	Yeah, so but it's change.
	Yeah.
	But couldn't you run into this problem when you say positive change, right?
	Of trying to give them positive change when it's not actually positive.
	Oh, that can definitely happen.
	Yeah.
	So when you say don't try to change each other, you don't really mean don't try to change each other.
	Yeah, you're right.
	I should change that because that's not what I mean.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Makes sense.
	point.
	Okay.
	Let's see.
	Going back to some of the notes here.
	Actually, no, why don't we do the bow video really quick?
	Was that it for the dating app stuff?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	I think this is a good example.
	Hold on.
	Stop.
	Start from the beginning.
	They weren't paying attention.
	Go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	Boom.
	Huge bow.
	I think this is pretty submissive, I think.
	Like pretty submissive, you know?
	All right.
	You know, just dinner's ready.
	Come home from a long day at the podcast.
	Opening the beer for me.
	Stirring the noodles.
	It's like, great.
	Boom.
	Good technique.
	Okay, boom.
	And then one more time.
	Let's see the bow one more time.
	Boom.
	Huge bow.
	So, just curious for you, I guess.
	Anybody else here think like they would be submissive?
	They want to be submissive to boyfriend?
	I might have to raise my hand again.
	Yeah.
	Would you, if your husband wanted you to bow, would you do it?
	I mean, I mean, if he's, if that's really what he likes, sure, yeah.
	I don't really see the point in the bowing, but he just was like, he saw that video from my podcast.
	He's like, oh, that'd be cool if like my girlfriend or wife did that.
	Would you do it?
	I would laugh and do it, but yeah.
	You'd laugh and do it?
	Because I think it's kind of funny, yeah.
	Okay.
	But you'd do it.
	I mean, sure.
	So going around the table.
	I see no harm in it.
	Yeah, that we're going to karate fight.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Gracie?
	I don't think I would.
	Maybe laugh about it.
	I would want to understand why he would want to be bowed to first.
	He just wants it.
	He wants a bow.
	You have to explain.
	I mean, I'll harm in it.
	I would laugh.
	Just do it.
	I would laugh.
	I wouldn't do it.
	Namaste.
	But you wouldn't do it.
	I would laugh and do it after.
	Okay.
	But what if he was like, I want you to do this every time if you're just at home, like, and he comes home from work every time he comes home from work?
	I wouldn't do that.
	You wouldn't do that?
	No, I wouldn't.
	But you want to get married, right?
	Yes.
	Here, before I get into that, I'll have everybody answer.
	Would you do that?
	Would you hit the bow?
	You think so?
	Yeah.
	Based.
	Based Austrian.
	It'd have to be the right person, otherwise, no.
	Okay.
	Would you do it?
	No.
	Okay.
	All right.
	She would ask him to bow.
	All right.
	Wait, so going back to you, Gracie, you want to get married?
	Yes, I do.
	Would you want a man to get down on one knee to do it, to propose?
	How much would you want him to spend on the ring?
	I don't really care about that.
	You'd be fine with like a cubic zirconia, like a $20.
	Yeah, I honestly think that some principles are kind of really cute.
	Wait, would you be fine with a CZ?
	Yeah, genuinely.
	So your whole friend group, all their husbands, spent thousands of dollars on a ring and you get a $20 CZ.
	Well, honestly, I would probably be marrying somebody who is hardworking enough to be able to afford a nicer ring.
	Sure, he could afford.
	Well, okay, for example, I could afford a $7,000 steak.
	I'm not spending $7,000 on a steak.
	I couldn't afford a $7,000.
	Yeah, you can, Andrew.
	You're doing that.
	Okay.
	So yeah, but my husband would want to spend something on me, I assume.
	Right, but so you would be dissatisfied if he did not spend a sufficient amount of money on the ring, correct?
	Maybe I would be.
	So you would?
	Yeah, I would be.
	So then, wait, to be clear, you want a man to get down, looking up at you, get down on one knee, kneel in front of you, which I think is far more submissive.
	Submissive than you're still standing, you just hit a bow.
	Well, yeah, it's traditional to get down on one knee.
	It's not traditional to bow in how I was raised.
	It's not traditional to bow to a man that walks into a room.
	Okay, so tradition aside, what's it matter?
	What do you mean?
	Well, you can desire things that are not.
	I mean, if we really can go into tradition, like do you, are you, I mean, is the woman a virgin on her wedding night?
	Is the husband a virgin on his wedding night?
	I mean, we can have a conversation about what's traditional, what's not traditional.
	In any case, a lot of women's expectations when it comes to the proposal is that he get down on one knee with a ring of a certain expense.
	Look at, oh, will you marry me?
	So you want, you're okay with the guy doing that?
	I like how it goes.
	I don't think it's wrong to like that.
	Will you marry me?
	Andrew probably stood there, threw the ring at her.
	You're my wife now, Rachel.
	We're married.
	Threw it, right?
	Yep.
	No, I didn't do that.
	But I like it.
	I really wanted to lean into it.
	I really wanted to lean into it.
	You know, it's really funny, though, bringing up my wife because she's watched that clip now, I don't know, like a dozen times.
	And she says that Brian's way off base, that that's not submission, that that's just basic, basic.
	She calls it basic bitch shit.
	She says, who gives a shit if this fucking, this is her words.
	I'm just paraphrasing her, right?
	Who cares if this stupid broad bows and cooks his noodles?
	That's basic.
	That's basic.
	Wait until he makes a decision that she doesn't like.
	Then we'll see if that chick is submissive or not.
	I think that that's a really valid point because it's like what she's saying there is, you're not really asking for shit.
	You're not asking for nothing.
	You're just like, oh, okay, with my cup of noodles, give me a bow.
	In the comparison to the expectation on the other side, I think you better bow.
	I mean, honestly, I think you better bow.
	And I think that that's what she's getting at with that.
	That's all.
	That's a really good point.
	It is a good point.
	Like asking for a bow that takes like no effort.
	You burn like a quarter of a calorie doing it, probably less.
	It'll please your husband or boyfriend or whatever if he wants it, I guess.
	I don't really see what the issue is there.
	I don't see any issue.
	I don't see the harm in it.
	It's just like, okay, like you want to bow?
	Sure.
	I agree.
	I like what your wife said.
	There's some basic shit.
	But you want a guy to get down on one knee?
	Well, and that's what she's saying.
	She's like, and if they won't do that basic shit, that chick ain't going to do nothing.
	She ain't going to do nothing.
	If a girl won't bow for you, she won't do anything.
	What's crazy?
	Wait, actually, what's crazy?
	Remember that Trad Cath girl?
	She went home and she was like, okay, I'm going to do it just to do it.
	Yes.
	And she made his meal and she put it down and she bowed.
	And he loved it.
	And he was like, what the fuck was that?
	And she told him and he was like, well, do that more.
	That's awesome.
	Okay, I'll tell you this.
	I'll tell you this.
	We've shown this video for 50 episodes now at this point.
	The amount of women who have DM'd me and said, I tried that with my boyfriend, tried that with my husband.
	99% of them will say the husband, the boyfriend loved that shit.
	One of them will, a couple of them will be like, oh, you thought it was kind of like, what the fuck are you doing?
	Are you okay?
	But then, like, they still liked it anyways.
	So, but here's the crazy thing, Andrew.
	The same women who will be like, who will say, I wouldn't bow for a man will let a guy jizz on your face the first time meeting.
	Just saying.
	It's true, bro.
	The same girl who's like, I wouldn't bow for a guy.
	What are you raising your eyes for?
	You make men punch themselves on the balls for you.
	I mean, I wouldn't let a man jizz on my face the first time I met him.
	That's just, I mean, I honestly like.
	You got to punch him in the nuts if you just.
	Don't touch the girl.
	Don't touch the family.
	You don't think there's women out there that have one-night stands and get blasted?
	I'm sure there are, but I'm not one of them, you know?
	But she can punch them in the nuts.
	Sorry.
	Bro, I'm telling you.
	I don't have to do that.
	They won't bow.
	They won't bow for you, but they will literally let you inside of them on the first date, bro.
	That's crazy.
	That's crazy.
	I got to get up for a bit.
	Can you?
	Oh, actually, before I get, I get up.
	I get up.
	Going to Keshwan?
	Kishwan, yeah.
	Kishwan.
	Her notes.
	You're going to like this one, Andrew.
	I know you can't stay for too long, but you'll have enough time to get into her with this.
	She says, men 30 plus dating 18-year-olds.
	I don't agree to that.
	Going around the table, what are your thoughts on age gaps?
	I can't wait to hear it.
	So your position, really quick, we'll get the rest of the panels.
	Oh, you want me to do it quick?
	Well, I just, I guess we're going to get everybody's input on this, but you can start since it was your point.
	Okay, so the reason why I said that was because I would say that a girl, because she's still a teenager, just fresh out of high school.
	I don't think that an 18-year-old that is fresh out of high school is going to say, you know, I'm ready to go get married and settle down.
	That's just not where she's at mentally.
	Okay, so, well, what if she's 19?
	21 is the youngest I'd go to.
	2021, 2021.
	Well, before we get into it, we'll let everybody share their opinions.
	Go ahead.
	I think it depends on where both people are at in life and if it like coincides with where each other are at.
	Here, maybe I can just throw out a number.
	25-year-old or 35-year-old should I do?
	We'll just say 19-year-old.
	I don't think that's, I don't like that.
	Don't like it?
	No.
	Okay.
	Why?
	Look in the camera.
	Just not something I would personally do or encourage my friends to say.
	What about Ryan Reynolds?
	Would you date Ryan Reynolds?
	Oh.
	He's 47 or something.
	I wouldn't date Ryan Reynolds.
	No.
	You would smash Ryan Reynolds.
	He's married.
	Yeah.
	A lot of issues to bring out of here, if he was single.
	If he was single.
	Or what about who's the guy who plays?
	I don't like the hippie.
	What about the guy who plays?
	Thor?
	Oh, he's sexy.
	Chris Hemsworth.
	What about I think the oldest I would go is like Kelly Oubre.
	Who the fuck is that?
	Kelly Oubre.
	Justin Jefferson.
	They're like mid-20s, though.
	Mid-20s.
	This is the oldest.
	25-28, right?
	Justin Jefferson's like 25, I think.
	All right, that's fine.
	Okay, so Tiki, not cool with 35, 19.
	Okay, what about you?
	I think it depends where you are in life, but like as a blanket statement, probably not.
	Probably not.
	Yeah, okay.
	Probably not cool with it.
	Okay, what about you?
	19 and 35 are.
	19 and 35, did you say?
	Yeah.
	No.
	No?
	What about you?
	Yeah, say no.
	That's too big of an age gap.
	No.
	Hmm, interesting.
	Okay.
	And then really quick, just what's the going back around the table?
	What's like the oldest that you would date?
	So just say your age again, and then say the oldest that you would date.
	Kay, starting with you?
	I'm 30.
	The oldest out of date is probably like 45.
	Okay.
	I'm 18, probably 20, 21.
	I'm 18 out to like 21, 22.
	I'm 18 and 20.
	I'm 27, and I'd probably date up to like 35.
	I'm 26.
	I'd probably go up to like maybe 36, 37.
	Okay, so I'm 35, right?
	So you would all object to me dating a 19-year-old?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Why?
	I mean, why would you date?
	19?
	Yes, legally an adult.
	Why would I want to?
	Because I would.
	Wait, no, you said that.
	Oh, go ahead.
	I feel like your lifestyles would be so different.
	How would it be different?
	A 19-year-old, like, I'm thinking of my life right now, like going into college.
	I would not, first of all, want to be dating anybody, but second of all, like be in the position to be in a relationship with somebody who is already like secure in their lifestyle, knows what they want, is working on their career, like that type of thing.
	I would need time and space for myself to do that.
	I mean, when I brought up some of those men who are really attractive, high status, even though they're far older than I am, you seem to consider it.
	I was curious.
	The only person I said I would consider is somebody who's 25.
	I mean, you were pausing there for Ryan Reynolds.
	I paused.
	I thought about it.
	But no, my.
	So you're saying Chris Hemsworth steps to you, super rich, handsome, status, A-list celebrity.
	You're turning a 20-year-old.
	I think I would genuinely question why me.
	I just think it would be weird.
	Because you're attractive.
	I think it would be weird.
	Why would it be weird?
	Because there are so many other women in his same stage of life and in his circle, I'd imagine, that are single and would be interested.
	Okay.
	Like, why would you have to step down to somebody my age, you know?
	So the only reason why I'm against it is because, like, I don't mind a big age gap.
	I don't care.
	But I would say that when you're like 20 and older, it's fine.
	Because my dad was 32 when he met my mom and she was 21.
	That's a 12-year age, Grant.
	Are they together?
	Oh, yeah, they're still married, yeah.
	So, I mean, you have an example in your own life.
	So, why would you object to it?
	Well, I said, like, 20 and older.
	Like, 18, 19, you're literally fresh out of high school.
	You're probably about to go to college.
	Your parents expect you to probably finish school, to start college.
	They don't expect you to meet a 35-year-old dude and get married.
	And realistically, a lot of fathers would not accept something like that.
	Sure, that's fine.
	I'm not saying women are obliged or forced to date older men.
	In fact, most women don't want to.
	But I don't see anything wrong if the woman wanted to.
	No, yeah, if she wanted to.
	I can't actually think of anything wrong with it.
	So I've never, in other words, I've never, this is what I would say.
	I've never actually heard a compelling moral argument for why it would be wrong if the age of adulthood is considered 18 for somebody with a significant age gap relationship to date or marry an 18-year-old.
	I've never heard a compelling moral argument against it.
	So what is a 35-year-old, like when you look at it, when you're a 35-year-old man, you see an 18-year-old girl that can't even, she can't drink, she can't legally do a lot of things at her age.
	She's just an adult.
	She can vote, sure.
	She could go into the army, whatever she wants to.
	She could do all those things.
	So she's an adult.
	But at 18, she can make decisions like that for her career and stuff, but as far as like But she can't determine who she wants to be with?
	She can just run the country.
	So she can vote to run the country.
	She can join the military.
	She can sign a contract.
	She can buy a house.
	She can do everything in the world except decide who she wants to date.
	She can't do that.
	But I didn't say she didn't have to.
	I just said, I just personally, I don't agree with that type of an age gap because she's literally fresh out of high school.
	Yeah, but let's say high school.
	But let's say high school lasted until you were 20.
	Then would the fresh out of the high school thing, because that's good rhetoric, right?
	To say fresh out of high school.
	But if it lasted until you were 20, would you still say fresh out of high school?
	No, you're 20.
	Yeah, right.
	So the high school thing is not relevant here.
	It's not high school, right?
	The idea here is that you think that there's some kind of ick factor from you as to why this is icky.
	I get that.
	Totally understand.
	I think age gaps are fucking icky too.
	But I can't make a moral argument against them.
	Can I try that?
	Yeah, I'd like to hear one.
	Okay.
	So if I'm thinking of me at age 18 versus me even now at 27, mentally, what I'm able to understand, how I'm able to articulate myself, the type of decisions I'm making are completely different.
	I'm going to tell you why this is a bad argument.
	Okay.
	Because that'll be the same case when you're 37.
	So why should we let you date right now at 27?
	So at 27, I shouldn't date a 40-year-old because.
	So what I'm saying, though, which I think does have a good argument, is don't you think an 18-year-old, like, their prefrontal cortex is not fully developed yet.
	Like, why should they be more, like, morally, don't you think that would be wrong of the 35-year-old to be, like, I see it as almost like that's a little bit of a prey type thing.
	It's double behaved.
	Is your objection that the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed?
	Yes, like, I wouldn't consider myself actually being an adult until I was 25.
	That's the year I'd say, wow, I actually think I was an adult.
	By this logic, women should not be able to vote till they're 25.
	Well, I wouldn't say that I can say the same thing for men, but I would think that we would be able to vote at the same time.
	My objection is not that men should not be able to at 18 date 40.
	I know.
	I just didn't want it to be that an 18-year-old boy could vote and a 25-year-old woman couldn't vote.
	That's all I had to do.
	Why not?
	Because you're not saying that men shouldn't date 40-year-old women at 18 because they're not.
	I think they also shouldn't.
	I don't know.
	I can't get in the brain of a brain.
	Do their prefrontal cortexes develop at the same rate?
	No, no, men's are slower.
	Slower.
	Men's are slower.
	So you, so you want, so, so, wait.
	So, so men can't make the decision to date until what, 28 in an age gap relationship?
	Well, who's saying that?
	She said.
	Well, I'm not saying that it's like they absolutely shouldn't and it's illegal, but I'm saying when you were saying, oh, I don't know if there's like a moral standpoint.
	I sound like I've heard a moral standpoint.
	You say, so if you say, if you're going to make this claim, I'm not an adult till I'm 25 because my Abdullah Ablangada is not completely developed yet.
	It's like, okay, that's fair.
	Why the fuck would I let you do any adult shit then?
	Why would I let you vote?
	Why would I let you buy a house?
	Why would I let you?
	Why would I let you join politics?
	Honestly, though, that could be true then.
	Okay, so then if it doesn't develop until 25, then, okay, you wanted to raise the age of consent to 25 because that's when you're an adult.
	I'm all for it.
	All I need to hear from you is: women are incapable of giving consent until they're 25.
	That's all I need to hear.
	And then I'm with you.
	I can't speak for all women.
	Oh, well, then I guess you can't say it's a mental health.
	No, I can't.
	I can only speak for me if I put myself in, and I know that I'm a bad person.
	So you couldn't consent till you were 25.
	No, I know that if I was 18, that absolutely would have not been a healthy or morally correct situation for me to be with a man who's 35 years old.
	So yeah, so the idea here is.
	That's funny.
	I have a master's degree, so in creative writing.
	I thought you had something in psychology.
	I do have a bachelor's in psychology, a master's in creative writing.
	Oh, nice.
	Okay, so anyway, the idea here is that's fine.
	I'm willing to cede the ground that we should wait to call people adults till they're 25.
	But that means the entailment of that is we have to treat them like they're not adults until they're 25, which means no voting, no age of consent.
	They can't have sex with somebody who's 26 then until they're 25.
	If they're 24, they can't have sex with a 26-year-old.
	It'd be like a 16-year-old screwing an 18-year-old, right?
	It'd be the same exact thing.
	So you would have to raise the age of consent.
	You'd have to raise the voting age.
	You have to raise all of that.
	If you're fine saying that that's what you want, then I can agree to it.
	Right.
	Then I would say I'd have to know on the back end more research of why it's actually 18 right now.
	You know what I'm saying?
	So I don't know.
	Because physiologically, it's completely undamaging for females at age 18 to 21 to have children.
	That's why.
	You can make the argument 17, 16, 15 on average, you're going to incur more damage.
	18, usually not.
	It's a healthy age for child rearing, just like 19 is 20, 21.
	The reason they want to start early is so that you can have as many children as possible.
	This is the idea behind it.
	So your fertile years are in front of you.
	So it makes sense, actually.
	Okay.
	So you don't think it's ever just a sex thing?
	You're 35 looking at age.
	I'm absolutely certain that most men at 35 who wanted to get married to an 18-year-old would be doing it specifically.
	The primary reason would be because they wanted to have lots and lots of sex with them and make babies.
	Yes, absolutely.
	I would concede that 100%.
	Just not sure what the problem with that is.
	That's the thing that gets me: how do you construct a moral argument that that's incorrect for them to do if they're adults?
	So if they're 35, they're 18, they're adults.
	What's actually incorrect if that is their most fertile years between 18, 20, let's say 26?
	It's almost compelling the other way.
	But any person's going to question it.
	Like, how long were you guys dating?
	How long were you like looking at my daughter for you to even say, you know what?
	I want to have a child.
	She's 18.
	Like they would ask the same questions at 29.
	Yep.
	Okay, but just granting.
	Yeah, they would.
	Like your dad would be like, how long have you known this guy before you married him, regardless of your age?
	18 dating 35.
	How long were you talking to her for you to be like, let's just grant they met?
	They first made contact.
	She was 18.
	Yeah.
	First made contact.
	18.
	So are you literally just scouting out just 18 year olds or you just met her randomly one day?
	I'm going to assume that she's just scouting out 18 year olds.
	They just adore them.
	But you just don't think that's like a little weird.
	You don't think that that's like a fetish?
	Regardless of if I think it's weird or I think it's ick or I think it's gross or any number of different things, right?
	The Orthodox, my religion, don't even endorse age gaps that wide, okay?
	So I can actually make a moral argument, but ultimately, I cannot think of why if it gives you the ick, that makes it immoral.
	A counterexample.
	If I were to say LGBTQ gives me the ick, right?
	Would you accept that as being a valid argument for why they shouldn't be LGBTQ?
	What would be the reason?
	Yeah.
	Would you accept that?
	Fuck no, you ain't going to accept that.
	So if you wouldn't accept that, then why the fuck would a guy ever accept that it gives you the ick as being something valid for anything?
	You know what I mean?
	Yes, but I don't think that my point about an 18-year-old potentially being too young is about an ick at all.
	I think that someone who's 36 has double the amount of life experience as an 18-year-old.
	Why should they?
	Because a 26-year-old and a 26-year-old, one of them can still have double the life experience of the other.
	And you know this.
	That's true.
	So the thing is, it's like...
	So an 18-year-old could have...
	Can I ask you a question?
	So hang on.
	So would you make the objection, the same objection, if there's two 26-year-olds, one of them had double life experience of the other one, would you make the same objection?
	I know you have a point there.
	So if I wouldn't, or I'm sorry, if you wouldn't make that same objection, then it gives you the ick.
	Okay.
	There's got to be an ick factor, right?
	I'll have to think on it.
	Okay, that's fair.
	I was going to ask sort of almost a similar question as you, Andrew, on that.
	So you could have, for example, if you had a 40-year-old man who was a rock star, traveled the world, had all these experiences, sexual experiences, whatever, and then he wants to date a 40-year-old woman who worked, who lived in a small town, dull life, never went outside of her town.
	That's still double the life experience.
	That's the point.
	The life experience is so asymmetrical.
	Or you can also have it the opposite direction, where you could say the 19-year-old girl, right, partied hard in high school and traveled the world with her family and all sorts of shit, gets married to a 35-year-old fuddy-duddy churchgoer who really hasn't had much experience outside of just gets up and goes to work every day.
	So you could even make the case the opposite direction that it's possible for the younger person to have more life experience than the older person.
	Though I would grant probably not the case, right?
	Most certainly is in the case of most people that I've met who get married around the same age that one is far more mature than the other.
	That is definitely the case.
	So it doesn't actually give me the ick.
	My thought then is if the 18-year-old was mature enough and had the capability to meet at the intellectual level of the 35-year-old, then yes, I think that that could work.
	Then it can't be immoral for a 35-year-old to marry an 18-year-old.
	I don't understand the meet with the intellectual.
	It just means that they're equally yoked somehow.
	Yes, because I can hear an 18-year-old girl speak.
	Jesus.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, we have three at the table.
	But by the way, they were very artistic.
	No, no, And then that's another part of, you know, where I'm thinking they like, well, I was just thinking when I'm thinking of me at 18, holy hell, no way is that going with the 36-year-old.
	Well, and let's say that.
	But I can't speak for everyone.
	This is the same thing when you think about the idea, because we argue this, right?
	But the truth is, it's like basically nobody does this.
	This is the fringe of society.
	Ultimately, most everybody dates within about three years and marries within about three years, right?
	But if you are going to kind of talk about the fringe cases because they're interesting, and that's why we're talking about them, right?
	Then ultimately, I think we better have something more than that's just kind of gross, you know?
	I think we do.
	Is it really all that fringe, though?
	I mean, plenty of women have anecdotes about, you know, maybe not all the men they've dated are significant age gaps, but a lot of women have age gap, have had age gap relationships, especially when they were younger.
	But the overwhelming majority of them don't.
	That's what I mean by kind of the fringe.
	The overwhelming majority of them, they really are dating within the view.
	And this actually, the reason this makes a lot of sense is because you're a product of the people that you're around the most.
	And usually it's going to be this friend group you're with in high school.
	And you meet people through them.
	They're going to be around the same age.
	If you're at work, it's probably going to be around the same age.
	If you're working at Starbucks, you're probably not going to be 50.
	You're probably going to be 20.
	Right.
	So people tend to kind of meet each other around those same ages.
	So it kind of makes sense why that occurs.
	But I'll tell you something really interesting.
	In the UK, they did a study where they took, and this is the Office of National Statistics.
	They took every marriage which had ever occurred in the UK, which was recorded, to look for a deviation in divorce rates.
	The assumption here being because some stupid ass study in the U.S. came out saying that age gap relationships fail at this massive rate.
	It was all total bullshit.
	They went through and looked for the deviation to see if they couldn't find whether or not there was a significant difference in the divorces between age gap and non-age gap relationships.
	There was no significant difference at all.
	None.
	Which means they worked out just as much as the ones that didn't.
	Which kind of makes sense because it wasn't that long ago that age gaps, even when my dad was a kid, very common.
	My mom, like same thing, my mom and dad, just like yours, massive age gap.
	Worked out fine.
	Worked out fine.
	Anyway, it sounded like everybody was.
	Oh, you got to take off.
	Okay.
	Thank you for coming, Andrew.
	Appreciate it.
	We're going to maybe move the chairs around a little bit.
	We'll try to raise it.
	Nice to meet you guys.
	Nice to meet you.
	Have a good night, Maddie.
	Thank you for coming, Andrew.
	Appreciate it.
	Appreciate it.
	Us two are going to have to leave pretty soon, too.
	We have a commute.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And then I think we're going to move chairs around a little bit.
	So I think what we're going to do, Maddie, I'm going to put you back over here.
	And I'm just going to have you four shift down.
	Actually, wait, let's just do this.
	You two stay there.
	You take that seat, and then you take that seat.
	So just shift over one.
	I'm just kind of fixing the angles here a little bit.
	Sorry, guys, one sec as we readjust things here.
	Appreciate it.
	Appreciate it, guys.
	All right.
	Mods, you can honestly, any mods, you can just perma-ban people who are saying they're going to leave too.
	You just perma-ban them, mods.
	Go ahead, mods.
	So, okay.
	Let's see here.
	I need to do some super chats here.
	Maddie, can you read these?
	Spent $11,000 on a wedding ring.
	Two years later, she wants a divorce, and I find out that gifts like a wedding ban can't be split in a divorce.
	Never again.
	Jesus.
	$11,000 is a lot.
	All right.
	That's a lot on the ring.
	Thank you, old man Marie.
	Appreciate it.
	We have another one coming in from him here.
	What would you say to that relationship of the 18-year-old and a 35-year-old if they stayed married for 50 plus years?
	Would you still have a problem with it?
	I just don't agree with that type of an age gap when you're a teenager.
	If it's 21 and older, I don't care.
	I mean, if they last for that long, then good for them.
	What do you think like the big jump is between like 18, 19 to 20?
	It's just maturity level.
	That's just what I think it is for me personally, is maturity level.
	Like you think after 19, everyone just like gets mature, and then at 20, you're like, I don't know, do you know what I'm saying?
	Yeah, I know what you're saying, but it's just, it's probably also just how I grew up, and then the way that a lot of us are raised is to like, they want us to go to college and do all these things, and then the last thing that they want to see is a 35, 40-year-old man hitting with an 18-year-old.
	Hmm?
	There's an angle.
	Do you want to adjust it?
	Just adjust her?
	Yeah, so can you scoot this way?
	Like, scoot your chair, you scoot your chair this way, you, scoot your chair, move your chair.
	Did that change anything?
	Yeah, I mean, I fed it.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	I was just saying, it's just basically just, I would just say, just how I grew up and how we're all raised.
	The majority of us is like to go to school.
	Like we have like a whole like plan for our lives that our parents set for us.
	And then seeing like a 35-year-old dude hidden on your 18-year-old, you're gonna be like, eh.
	That's a little weird.
	That's just how we grow up.
	It's just like a teenager, it's just weird.
	But if they laugh, then that's good.
	It's good for them, I guess.
	Okay.
	And then we have one more chat here.
	Hold on, let me pull this up.
	Yeah, no, no.
	Good.
	Women moving on to different men if they don't conceive is normal for a species.
	Birth control has destroyed the natural order.
	If she's not getting pregnant, finding a new man is good for species.
	I do want to, I mean, I'm going to keep it on age gap a little bit there because I had to get up for a moment.
	So, I mean, you do OnlyFans, correct?
	Me?
	Yeah.
	I do loyal fans, but not in that context.
	But I'm assuming you don't have any issue with sex work, right?
	No, I don't.
	Okay, so should 18-year-old women be allowed to do sex work?
	I mean, I don't think I would co-sign it, but again, I mean, I guess you're a legal adult.
	I mean, I do see a problem with it just because, I mean, you're 18, 19, like you're still a teenager, regardless of whether you're a legal adult or not.
	I don't understand, like, if there was a word that described an age range from like 10 to 30, right?
	I don't see how that's really helpful.
	Because, like, you'll, when this age gap conversation comes up, you'll use loaded language, like, but they're a teenager.
	Yes, a 19-year-old is technically a teenager, but so too is a 13-year-old.
	Now, can we agree that dating, like, if someone wanted to date a 13-year-old, that's way more objective, like that's, first off, it's criminal.
	Yeah.
	I think that's reprehensible.
	That's so different than dating a 19-year-old.
	Like if you're 22 and you're dating a 19 year old, she's, she's a teenager, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, but using the word teenager is very like, it's, it's the, it's a very intentional spin.
	I mean, I get what you're saying.
	No, you're attempting to pathologize it by using loaded language.
	No, I mean, I was just stating a fact.
	Like, you are talking about.
	Yes, factually, you are a teenager.
	Yeah.
	But you're going to frame it as in a way, why would you want to date a teenager when a teenager can also encompass a 13-year-old?
	And that's like P-word territory, right?
	Yeah.
	But you're not a P-word if you want to date a 19-year-old.
	I still think it's weird.
	Like, I just don't.
	Right, but I'm just pointing out the way in which you use the load.
	I get what you're saying.
	Do you know marketing spin?
	Do you know the term spin?
	Yeah.
	So when you spin, it's like, okay, there's the truth, and then you're going to try to like shift kind of the perception of something by using certain language.
	Okay, well, that wasn't really my intention to use.
	I was just stating a simple fact.
	I still think it's weird.
	I don't agree with it.
	Right, but I mean, so teenager is simply represent like, so teen, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, right?
	It's a term that applies to a very wide age range.
	So if there's an equivalent term that equated to like the age from 10 to 30, I'm sure you would agree that this really means nothing.
	Oh, you want to date Quebbles?
	You want to date a Quebble, and that's from like 10?
	That a Quebble is from 10 to 30.
	Oh, so you want to date a, you're 33 and you want to date a 30-year-old.
	I don't think anybody here has any objections to that.
	But if somebody wanted like a 30-year-old wanted to date like a 10-year-old Quebble, I just made this shit up.
	I don't know what the fuck.
	I don't know.
	It would not be useful.
	It would not really be useful for the sake of conversation.
	So just pointing out while they're a teenager, okay, that's not really an argument.
	You're still young, you're still impressionable, and I don't think you have enough life experience at that point to be able to make those informed decisions.
	And that's my view on it.
	I think it's a big voting thing.
	Yeah, he talked about it.
	Okay, so then, I mean, I wasn't here, but so then women should just not be able to vote at 18 then, right?
	I mean, I would say you can't say like women.
	I would say just all people.
	I feel like 18 is pretty young because I don't think that a lot of 18-year-olds really have a concept, a good concept of politics.
	Or the economy, really.
	Or the economy.
	So knowing this, like knowing that younger people tend to lean more liberal, especially women.
	I mean, they tend to lean more liberal in general.
	But knowing this, like let's say when should the voting, what should the voting age be?
	25?
	No.
	Younger?
	Yeah, I would say like maybe 21.
	But again, I don't really have any authority to even come up with that.
	So 21, you can date any age then.
	21, you can date 50-year-old.
	Yeah, 21 is at the age where you've, I think, dealt with enough things in life that you can, you know, hold your own as an adult.
	You probably have a plan by then, but 21, like to get your life started.
	Maybe if you want to, you're like, you know what?
	I just finished college.
	I want to start dating.
	I want to have a family.
	I don't see a problem with that.
	I would just say 18, you don't know what you want to do with your life yet, majority of 18-year-olds.
	Unless you're very religious, which is fine, or if you're from the country or the South or something.
	But when you're 18, you don't really know what you really want to do.
	I mean, we just don't.
	We have no idea.
	We change our minds all the time.
	Okay.
	What does that have to do with who you can or cannot date?
	So, okay, just should 18-year-olds not be able to sign contracts to?
	No contracts?
	Can't.
	Well, don't they need a parent if they want an apartment?
	Is that where you're going?
	Well, that's, I mean, as an 18-year-old, you can legally enter into a contract.
	Whether people will enter into a contract with an 18-year-old without a co-signer, for example, that's another conversation.
	But at what point do we start, you know, removing agency from what society has deemed as an adult?
	So you can't legally enter into a contract until you're 21.
	You can't get student loans.
	You can't do all these things.
	Like, at what point?
	Well, I'm pretty sure you, to get student loans, if I'm not, or maybe it's something else.
	But I think you have to be 24 to be considered like an independent from your parent when it comes to getting like certain grants and stuff like that.
	So I think a Pell Grant.
	I don't know about Pell Grants, but I'm pretty sure an 18-year-old can get student loans.
	Well, yeah, they can get student loans, but there are certain grants that you just can't get as an 18-year-old.
	You have to have your parent like co-sign on that.
	I'm just saying.
	I mean, you can't rent a car under, what, 25?
	Yeah, but there's no, I don't think that's a law.
	These are just companies that, I don't know the specifics when it comes to car rentals.
	There's no law that precludes a company from renting to people who are under 25.
	These rental companies perhaps have made a determination.
	And I think you might be able to actually, I don't know precisely, but they've just made a determination that it's a liability to them to rent to under 25.
	Majority of them, you can.
	You just have to pay like larger fees.
	Like you have to do a $300 cover for it.
	You're more liable.
	So, yeah.
	I don't know.
	I just haven't really heard a compelling reason on this.
	I mean, that's fine.
	I mean, what do you want me to say?
	Majority of artists.
	But so, like, what's the, like, what are the actual arguments?
	I mean, like.
	It's just something that I personally just don't agree with.
	And let's be real.
	Majority of parents would not agree with that if they saw their daughter that's 18 trying to marry someone that's 30, 35.
	Sure.
	Initially, they probably wouldn't agree with it.
	Maybe over time, once they get to know the man, they get to know his intent, what he plans to, like, if their values mesh, then sure.
	But initially, a lot of people just don't know.
	Well, let me ask you a question.
	So you have a 20-year-old daughter, 19, we'll say 19-year-old daughter.
	We'll keep her a teenager, I guess, whatever.
	Would you prefer to see her go to college and just have a string of men her age fuck her once and never talk to her again, or see her in a loving, committed, monogamous relationship with a 30-year-old who treats her well?
	Which would you prefer?
	Well, obviously, the second one.
	You're saying that she's going to get used while she's in college.
	Isn't that what happens to most women in college?
	Am I wrong?
	No, that's not.
	Am I wrong?
	Most college boys who are in their age range, a lot of them don't want a relationship.
	Some do.
	Plenty of women will find relationships in college, but I think a lot of women's experiences.
	They jump from guy to guy to guy.
	They have a string of one-night stands.
	The guys are fuckboys.
	They don't want to commit.
	It was also the way you raise your child.
	Like, what are the values that you instilled in your daughter?
	Because not all college girls are like that.
	I honestly was not like that.
	I wasn't just hopping from wiener to wiener.
	I just wasn't doing that.
	And it's just like, I'm not a lot of people.
	You never got played by a guy?
	Oh, of course.
	You never got played by a guy who was like, oh, I want everything, blah, blah, blah.
	He fucks you and then it's over.
	You've never had that.
	It was in two relationships.
	Yeah, it was just horrible.
	Have any of the girls here had that?
	Have you had that?
	Of course.
	What's the question?
	Have you had that?
	Been played by a guy.
	Huh?
	Just been relationships to a guy in general.
	Right.
	You got played by a guy.
	He was your age.
	You've been played by a guy?
	And a lot of times we do dig in our age range.
	It's like this idea that, okay, if I date guys, you're just as likely to encounter toxic guys, abusive guys.
	Actually, I would argue that, comparatively speaking, you're probably a little more likely to run into a fuckboy at your age than if a guy's a little bit older.
	I think.
	Anyways.
	So.
	Well, I don't disagree with that.
	But I'm just like, okay.
	Now, I'll even grant, though, like, if the comparison is, okay, long-term monogamous, healthy relationship with a guy who's her age versus a guy who's 30, I don't think there's anything wrong if you were to say, I'd prefer it with a guy her age.
	But also, if women's, a lot of women's experience is, okay, well, I'm getting mistreated by the men who are my age.
	I don't actually think there's any objection if they meet a guy who's a bit older and he's like wants a long-term relationship.
	I think that that's a probably better position to be in than to be just getting like a string of like fuck boys and one-night stands.
	No, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
	Like initially, it doesn't matter who you are, you're going to think it's odd.
	But as you get to know the guy and you get to see like, you know what, maybe this guy is actually good for my daughter.
	And I trust him with her life and her safety and they want to have, you know, they want to take things further, then that's fine.
	I'm just saying initially, nobody's going to really, they're just going to think it's weird.
	It's odd.
	I also say it's better in comparison.
	It's not necessarily better in general.
	Like in comparison being played after play, but not necessarily a good thing.
	I mean, it can be.
	Like, well, you're just comparing it to them getting like ran through, basically.
	I feel like in comparison, yeah, obviously the better option is an older man.
	Well, yeah, of course.
	But it's like it's not necessarily the case that it's either being run through or a 35-year-old man.
	Sure, that's not always like going to be the case.
	And it could be the case that the 35-year-old, 40-year-old, whatever it is, just wants sex and never wants to talk to you again, too.
	That could be the case.
	But presented with that situation, I mean, a lot of the complaints we've had over a thousand women come on the show.
	A lot of the complaints that we hear from girls who are in college, 18, 19, 20, 21, is these guys don't want commitment.
	They don't want to commit.
	Blah, blah, blah.
	All this stuff.
	Fuck boys, blah, blah, blah.
	Hear it all the time.
	And so, yeah, I don't know.
	Anyways, talking about my specific situation.
	So I would never be in a situation where I'm like going and hanging out at college parties or some shit.
	Like I would date a girl who's older than me, too, but I actually don't see anything wrong with dating a girl who's 20 and I'm 35.
	I don't see if they're not daddy.
	Also, I don't think that's.
	Well, okay, how about she's 19 then?
	Me.
	Is that what?
	Okay, she's 19.
	20?
	Go ahead, Brian.
	19.
	Hold on.
	Fucking weirdo.
	I think it depends like what kind of 19.
	Like 19, like freshman year of college or like.
	Like, what are we talking here?
	Like, like, how young are they really?
	That's what I'm saying.
	It's more like where they are in life than like the actual age itself.
	Because you could have an 18-year-old that's still in high school.
	And then you could also have one that's like a junior or sophomore in college.
	Like, if when I was on dating apps, I would put the age range from like 18 to 40.
	So I'll date older, I'll date younger, you know?
	To me, but it's not like, I think some of your objections would be like, oh, what if this dude, like his age range, he's 30 something, and it's like 18 to 20 only.
	He only is like going in for that.
	Whereas I guess it's kind of like casting a wider net, you know?
	Yeah.
	So, I don't know.
	What about, okay, how about this scenario?
	I'm not even on date, if I'm not on dating apps, whatever.
	What if a 19-year-old girl slid into my DMs?
	Which happens?
	Well, if she's ready for commitment, she's not trying to use you for a come up, then what's the problem?
	Bro, no girl can use me for a come up because I'm not.
	I mean, I don't know.
	No, if I'm dating a girl, bro, she's not, she's not getting on the show.
	She's not getting any clout.
	That's it.
	Okay.
	So I'm not, yeah, I'm not really worried about that.
	Okay.
	Why are you laughing, bro?
	It's funny.
	You're like, dating girl, she's absolutely not coming on.
	I'm the word, bro.
	You can't clout me.
	You can't really clout dig me.
	Right.
	I would just laugh at you.
	Like if you're trying to date me so you can get clout, I guess.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Like, that's why I laughed.
	I'm not going to like just to separate immediately.
	Like, you already know then that that girl's not coming at you for the clout because you could let her know in front.
	Like, you're not, you can't use me for clout because you're not coming on the podcast.
	Yeah, you're not like, I'm not going to post you anywhere.
	You're not, we're not going to do vlogs or some shit.
	Like, if I got a girlfriend, I could have had a girlfriend for the past two years.
	Nobody would know about it.
	Right, until the engagement.
	Nobody, like, nobody who watches the show would know about it.
	Until the engagement?
	Yeah.
	Are you getting it down on one knee with a $12,000 ring saying, will you marry me?
	$12,000 ring is not.
	I'm not getting married.
	That's a whole bunch of money.
	I ain't getting married.
	Hell no.
	No marriage.
	Why?
	Oh, no, fine, I'll, if she's, I was going to make a joke.
	Never mind.
	What if she's Christian?
	What's that have to do with it?
	And we'll bow to you every single day.
	It lasts longer, right?
	I guess.
	Here, let's finish up the notes here.
	We'll try to wrap up pretty soon, hopefully.
	You had some beef with pearly things.
	Yeah, I just didn't agree with, because she was saying that men are better parents than.
	Can you put that mic on the ground?
	Which mic is that, Nick?
	Can you mute that mic?
	Yeah, just put it on the ground.
	Five.
	Okay, I guess so.
	Go ahead, sorry.
	It was just that she was saying on another podcast that men are better parents than women.
	And you disagree?
	I disagree.
	I just, I wouldn't even say one is better than the other.
	I think we compliment each other.
	But the reason why I would disagree is because a lot of the times when we're as children, when we're sick, who do we go to?
	We go to mom.
	And we need to help with homework.
	We go to mom.
	Mom, my stomach hurts.
	We just go to our mom for literally everything.
	And a lot of times when we ask our dad for something, go ask your mother.
	Like, she's literally the mothers are the main ones that literally come to all of our sporting events.
	Anything that has to do with school, if we're sick, whatever the case may be, whatever, if we're in trouble, she's the first one that we call.
	So you think women make better parents?
	I wouldn't.
	Oh, sorry.
	I'm not even saying that even mothers make better parents, but as far as the disciplinary goes, you think it's the same.
	Men, huh?
	So you think it's the same?
	Yeah, I think we compliment each other.
	I don't think one is better than the other, to be quite honest with you.
	Well, can I ask you a question?
	Sure.
	So if we compare single mothers to single fathers, who tends to raise parents?
	Oh, the dads.
	I'm talking about a two-parent household, though.
	Oh.
	A two-parent household where you literally have the mother and the father.
	That's what she was talking about.
	I'm not talking about single mother, single, that's a whole different conversation.
	I'm talking about better parents in single-parent households.
	Wouldn't it also apply to two-parent households?
	A single-parent household would apply to them.
	Well, I mean, you said that single fathers tend to do a better job raising children than single mothers.
	No, for when it comes to discipline, that they're better at disciplining their children.
	Mothers are way better at nurturing.
	And then they're literally always there for us 100% of the time.
	Even when they're busy, when they're tired, when they're taking a shit, it's always there.
	Right, but I mean, this is not something I've really given a whole lot of thought aside from the single-parent component.
	No, yeah, the single-parent household, that thing is, I would just say, like, a lot of the times they do not have to be a lot of people.
	I think both people play a very important role.
	Yeah.
	So Pearl was arguing, though, that men, even in two-parent households, play a more important role.
	That's what she was saying.
	Yeah.
	Did she say why?
	She was saying, oh, according to statistics, it says that men are just better at being parents.
	And it's just like, Pearl, you know damn well, like all the things I listed, like when we're sick and everything, we always go to our mom.
	We're hungry, we go to mom.
	Like, that's just what we do.
	We just go to our moms 100% of the time.
	So when she was saying that, it didn't make any sense to me.
	I even asked my mom about it, and she's like, what?
	She's like, your dad was out working a majority of the time, and I was always at home with you girls.
	And my mom also had a job, too.
	So I just didn't understand what Pearl was coming at with that.
	Well, I think she was probably making the argument.
	I think I maybe saw part of the clip.
	She's essentially just saying, well, okay, when it comes to single parents, who does a better job, single fathers, single moms?
	And so she's applying that metric to, well, it's probably somewhat applicable even in a two-parent household where the dad's role is potentially more impactful.
	I don't know if I agree with it, but that's probably what she's arguing.
	She's also saying that dads are more nurturing than the mothers.
	I don't understand how that even makes sense.
	I'm not sure.
	Dads tell us to shake it off when we get hurt.
	They say, oh, you'll be all right.
	That's just how they are.
	The moms will literally get on their whole nurse outfit and try to help fix the problem.
	That's fair.
	Okay.
	Well, she's not here.
	No, yeah, I'm just saying that's just not my position, but.
	Yeah, I just didn't know where you stood on that.
	I don't really, I don't think I really have a position.
	I'm talking about a two-parent household.
	Let's see.
	We have, we need to get back to Gracie.
	We have more notes from Gracie.
	Let's see.
	She's ready.
	I think the normalcy of cheating has made it so women in particular have very low standards because nowadays everyone has a story about cheating that a man Caring in the slightest feels like wait, what everybody about cheating that a man caring in the slightest feels like princess treatment.
	I think I don't even think this is very much of a hot take.
	It's just like I think all of us can agree that we have either personally been cheated on or know someone very closely who has been.
	And it's been really normalized that now that's all really that we have to compare relationships to is like how shitty one guy has treated either you or your friends in the past that you're like, oh, he like opened the door for me.
	This is amazing.
	You know, it just has lowered standards in general, I think.
	Yeah.
	I'm not sure I buy into this.
	So you're saying if a guy opens a door for you, that's like, whoa, okay, I'm going to fuck him.
	No.
	He's just shocking.
	That's not what it is.
	Brian, I ever opened a door for a girl and she's like, want some pussy?
	Oh my God.
	I've never had a girl like I, oh, that was so nice of you, Brian.
	Let me throw you a pussy.
	I'm saying comparatively, when somebody treats you decently, it feels better because all you have to compare it to is the idea that men treat women shitty.
	Or is it the men that you go after, that you date, that you choose to be in relationships with, that you choose to hook up with?
	They treat you shitty.
	Yeah, it is that.
	But I think that it's a lot more common.
	Who's to blame?
	I'm not saying that it's entirely like men's fault or anything.
	I'm just saying, as a topic of conversation, it is something to consider.
	So why is there a trope of, and even women will admit this, they're attracted to bad boys, they're attracted to jerks, they're attracted to assholes.
	Is it any surprise that you get cheated on and mistreated by the same type of men that you're intentionally pursuing?
	That's not what I'm really trying to get at.
	But that's the type of men you find attractive.
	Sorry, most women find attractive.
	I'm more so trying to get at the idea that, given that commonly women do go for that, and especially now I think that that has become more common, it also has made women's standards for men lower because when we think about how our last relationship treated us, typically we'll have like horror stories from it, you know?
	And then that'll automatically horror stories.
	Well, to be dramatic.
	Horror stories.
	To be dramatic, you know?
	But a guy you were on in an on-in-again, off-again situationship, not really clear if you guys are even dating, he was with another girl.
	Like, that's your horror story.
	I'm being dramatic when I say that, obviously.
	But I'm just saying that overall, we have lowered our standards.
	I personally disagree.
	I think women have inflated their standards and expectations on men.
	Okay.
	You're talking about normal, like normal girls?
	Like, like normal.
	Mine have always been.
	No.
	I literally always dated guys on my level.
	The amount of money that I was making, if I made like 20K a year, I just always ended up with guys that were literally making around the same amount.
	I don't, I've never went higher like I should have.
	So wait, but like, okay, who do you think is pickier, men or women?
	Women.
	Well, we have to be women.
	We have to trust that you're even going to be able to be a good father to our people.
	But so, like, your standards can't, like, how are they low if you're so picky too?
	I think the standards are still really high.
	They just accept bad behavior more.
	Yeah.
	That's a good way to put it.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	No, but all of you, just curious, who here has ever friend zoned a guy?
	Can somebody translate to German, please?
	Do you know friend zone?
	Yeah, of course.
	Yeah.
	Have you had a friend guy in the friend zone?
	Like, so right.
	So, you women will have men who, if you wanted to, like, men don't often have, like, multiple women in the pocket that they could, like, go to at any given time and just be, like, I want a relationship with her right now.
	And you think women do?
	Yes, your friend zone.
	All the dudes in your friend zone, if you go to them, I want commitment, I want a relationship, they'll give it to you.
	But you don't have girls in the friend zone either.
	Guys don't have girls in the friend zone.
	You think guys, just like average dudes, have like five chicks in the friend zone that want to fuck them and be in a relationship with them?
	Well, I'm not saying I have like five guys just on my phone being like, oh yeah, we're in the friend zone.
	Like, you know what I mean?
	Okay, all of you take out your phones right now.
	I want you to text one of your male friends and be like, what's the best framing for this?
	Hey, what do you think about being more than friend?
	Or how do we typically do this?
	I'll do it right now.
	Oh, yeah, I did that last time and he called me gay.
	Oh, but that's your like, okay, that doesn't matter.
	Exactly.
	What's the call?
	Corey.
	I would literally do that.
	I'll do it right now.
	Do you want me to?
	I can call him even if you want to.
	No, I can't call, but you can text.
	The way we have it was, have you ever thought of being more than five?
	Oh, yeah, that's better.
	Wait, hold on, wait.
	There's a few clarifications here.
	Does he know you're on the podcast?
	Yes.
	I mean, I posted all my story.
	Okay, secondly, is he single?
	Yes.
	And is he straight?
	Yes.
	Because girls will do this to like dudes who have a girlfriend.
	You got to do it to like a single male friend.
	He's single and very single.
	Very single.
	No hate.
	No hate.
	Look, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
	But what we, actually, just for the sake of time, we can't really do it.
	But we've had women who've done this on the show.
	They text a guy, and the guy's like, I'm down.
	That's so funny.
	But you're saying that, like, do you think that if, like, and do you have girlfriends?
	Like, girl space friends?
	Like, you both aren't friends?
	Yeah, you guys aren't friends?
	We're co-workers.
	Oh, yeah.
	I also have a boyfriend.
	Okay, he knows.
	Do you have girl space friends?
	No, I don't.
	Honestly, you don't.
	Yeah, but her boyfriend did, though.
	She's trusting her around you.
	Like, her boyfriend trusts her around you.
	He's my boss.
	I know.
	Yeah, but he's still got a penis.
	What the fuck?
	Okay, do you have guy friends?
	Sure, yeah.
	And do you think they're all attracted to you?
	Probably, yeah, actually, yeah.
	Would your boyfriend allow that?
	Allows that?
	Well, my boyfriend is friends with them also, but my boyfriend is like, this has the same stance.
	He thinks that any guy in the friend zode would be with any girl if they could.
	I'm pretty confident, like, even the guys who know she has a boyfriend, they might even know the boyfriend.
	They might know her boyfriend.
	If Maddie was like down, they'd probably take it.
	Sorry, Maddie.
	They probably would.
	Maybe like one, but like, maybe not all of them.
	I think.
	But, like, there's probably like a dude who would.
	And then if you broke up with Frankie, does that number change?
	Probably.
	They're like trying to hit.
	Probably.
	You're trying to hit.
	They'd probably go to the bathroom.
	No, I wouldn't, but yeah.
	Probably.
	They would.
	Anyways, I don't know how we got to the friends thing.
	How did we get to the friends thing?
	We were talking about what?
	Your thing.
	Oh, the cheating and the expression.
	Standards, the standards.
	There's this thing called hoeflation.
	So I actually think the reverse is going on.
	So like the quality.
	Do I get into the hoflation thing?
	I forgot even how it goes.
	It's like something like, so how does it go?
	How does the hoflation go, guys?
	I've totally forgot it.
	I haven't argued this in like over a year.
	What is it, Nick?
	Are you googling hoflation?
	Hoflation.
	Okay, let's look at hoflation.
	The increase in price men have to pay for lower value women.
	So men have to pay for women.
	Well, not literally, like with money, but women are bringing less to the table.
	They're more promiscuous.
	And their expectations of men are way higher.
	It's true, bro.
	I would agree to some of that, yeah.
	I feel like Grease point, though, is not that the expectations are higher, but it's that we accept shittier treatment, right?
	Oh, you're attracted to the guys who treat you shittily.
	Shittily.
	I'm not saying me, I'm just saying in general in general.
	I don't know.
	Most of these guys, a lot of guys who, oh, you've never heard a girl say he's too nice.
	I mean, yeah.
	He's good looking, good personality, treats me well.
	But there just wasn't the click.
	There wasn't the vibe.
	There wasn't the chemistry.
	You guys are looking for a guy who triggers your anxious, like something like you want a guy to kind of be like a little treat you a little poorly.
	It's fucked up, bro.
	We had a guy on the show who said something.
	I don't cosign this, but he says, if you treat them like dirt, they stick to you like mud.
	Oh, God.
	I don't co-sign that, but that's what he said.
	Oh, God.
	Well.
	Don't cosign.
	Disavow.
	Disavow.
	But what, you guys never heard about this?
	The nice thing?
	Ho-flation?
	No, the whole thing.
	The nice guy thing?
	Huh?
	Or the nice guy?
	The nice guy thing?
	I think the nice guy thing.
	Look, I just think this whole like, I don't know, the whole like click thing, it basically boils down to he doesn't trigger your anxious trauma response, which you confuse for love.
	Right.
	Boom-roasted.
	That was really good.
	Boom-roasted.
	Yeah.
	That was some good shit.
	Good shit.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	Did you have more thoughts on that?
	You think the standards are way too low for the dudes?
	Not really.
	I think that was a good discussion on it.
	I don't have anything to add.
	Come on, you can give a little pushback.
	Go ahead.
	I mean, honestly, I'm here to hear other people's point of view, so I really don't have anything.
	All right.
	That's valid, I guess.
	I just, I don't know.
	Like, what are the standards, though?
	Like, the standards are so low.
	I'm just trying to hear like what the standards are, the low standards.
	I mean, not responding quickly, I guess.
	That's just an example that came to mind.
	What's wrong with that?
	Just not, like, showing general interest as much.
	So if a guy doesn't respond to you within three hours, it's...
	No, I think three hours, that's, like, fine.
	But I'm saying, like, maybe.
	Maybe he's busy.
	Maybe.
	Yeah, maybe he is.
	But also, I'm busy too.
	Like, people are busy.
	No, like multiple days, like a week.
	Then I think that's just kind of like...
	I would say if you're dating a guy and you don't hear from him at all for a whole day, that's a problem.
	A whole day.
	You don't even tell me, oh, hey, I'm just want to let you know I'm thinking about you, but I won't be able to get back to you today.
	I mean, if you at least say that, like a whole day and you're actually actively dating that person, that's a problem.
	That's it.
	Word.
	Word.
	Hold on, guys.
	Maddie, can you ask the BC question?
	And then, uh.
	You want me to ask me the two questions?
	Yeah, sure.
	I'm gonna, we're gonna go into row section, and then we're gonna wrap the show here pretty soon.
	Guys, I'm gonna lower the TTS trigger here, and then we're gonna wrap it up pretty soon.
	Uh, TTS should be at 30 now, FYI.
	Then we're gonna wrap the show.
	Go ahead.
	Does body count matter to you?
	Let's go.
	Starting with you going around, I guess.
	Do you mean by a guy for me?
	Body count.
	Yeah, I know, but okay, hello, hold on.
	So, do you think it's insecure for men to care about a woman's body count?
	No, I don't think so.
	Okay.
	Um, I mean, yeah, I feel like if you don't know, like, especially if you don't know her, like, prior, like, what who she was with, like, it doesn't really matter.
	Like, she has life experience, like, she does shit.
	You know, why be insecure about that?
	Okay.
	Um, I don't, I think that he can care about it.
	I think it's normal to.
	I think it would be normal for anyone to be curious about who their partner's been with and what kind of life they've led before them.
	Mm-hmm.
	Okay.
	That's the same thing, yeah.
	Yeah, I agree with Rihanna.
	Like, it matters to an extent.
	Yeah, I think body count matters for a woman too, yeah.
	Well, I mean, so, really quick clarifying question, though.
	Would you object to a man refusing to date a woman because he deems her body count as too high?
	Do you think that's wrong?
	You don't think that's an appropriate metric to disqualify somebody on?
	I think it's fine.
	I think it's up to them to determine, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's a preference.
	I mean, it's the same thing like me saying I have a height preference.
	I don't think it's like no, yeah.
	Go ahead, Maddie.
	What's everybody's body count?
	Starting with you?
	One.
	Like 20 something, probably.
	I don't know.
	I don't have a ledger.
	I don't really count.
	Mine's nine.
	One.
	I'm not going to share that.
	Four.
	I've shared mine a million times.
	Multiply it by three, and that's the real number.
	No, mine released.
	Mine's released one.
	Yeah, so it just mine.
	Wait, but you said body count does matter or doesn't matter?
	I think it does, like to an extent.
	It does.
	I see.
	Okay.
	Go ahead, Maddie.
	Ask the other BC question.
	Birth control.
	Oh.
	Is anyone on birth control?
	I'm not even having sex even be on it.
	I have an IUD, but it's for like health.
	Like non-concerns.
	Yeah.
	Non-hormonal.
	No, I'm not.
	And I'm also.
	Or have you guys ever been on it?
	Jaivanik donated $30.
	This stream completely changed my conceptions of women.
	Entire panel was a W, including two 18-year-olds.
	Only Elle was red-headed Paul Black Predator.
	What does that even mean?
	Okay.
	Wait.
	Wait, so like, have you ever been on it?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	When I was in a relationship, I was on it.
	Which way were we going?
	Are we starting?
	Oh, okay.
	Gotcha.
	So both relationships I was in, I was on it.
	I was on it for four days because of my PCOS, and it fucked up my body, so I stopped going on it.
	And I really don't love it or the idea of it in women because I think it fucks up your hormones.
	Yeah, over time it does.
	Over time, it does.
	Being on it for a long period of time.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it does.
	Yeah, I had the same issue when I was on it when I was younger.
	It was like to try and regulate my period, and then I ended up having like hair loss, weight gain, a whole bunch of things.
	Oh, so then I'm not on it.
	Yeah.
	Haven't been on it.
	And then also just learning about it, it's like very unhealthy for the human body and not natural.
	Yeah, I was on it for five years from like 17 to like 22 around that, and I got off of it.
	And like, again, like it just fucks your hormones up.
	I do not recommend what was the question we agree.
	Or are you on birth control?
	Or have you ever been on it?
	No, no.
	What other questions do you have, Madison?
	Would you want a girl to be on birth control?
	Would I?
	Yeah.
	Would you care?
	I mean, to be safe, it's probably a good idea, but there's non-hormonal options like copper IUD that don't.
	I mean, there are some side effects, there's certainly side effects to it, but it doesn't like fuck her hormones.
	So.
	What are the side effects to those?
	Of a copper IUD.
	Yeah.
	I mean, there can be increased bleeding, spotting, etc.
	Pain sometimes, but I suppose that's better than getting pregnant, you know?
	That's probably preferable.
	But, well, how about kids?
	What's that, Maddie?
	All right, never mind.
	Wait, what?
	I was going to say, unless you want kids, but I guess if you're going to sleep with a girl early on, you're not going to want kids right away, so that makes sense.
	Let's go around the table on this question.
	Who do you think is the primary victim?
	Oh, my God.
	Who do you think is the primary victim of war?
	Men or women?
	Somebody in the chat asked me to ask that.
	It wasn't my idea.
	They forced me to.
	Primary victim of war?
	Here.
	Men or women.
	I don't know.
	Okay, we'll skip.
	Go ahead.
	I think both.
	I think they're equally primary victims.
	Well, you have to choose one.
	I'm not going to take a stance.
	What about, like, okay, really quick, the Ukraine war.
	What do you think about for the Ukraine war?
	I think both.
	I think they're both victims of war.
	All right.
	Men?
	Okay.
	Men.
	I'd say men.
	Men, because they're getting blown up.
	I think men also.
	Really quick for you.
	So I guess really quick, we won't linger on this one.
	By the way, guys, the TTS is 30 if you want to get your final messages in before we wrap up here.
	So what was I going to say?
	Oh, so I guess like what?
	Why?
	Why?
	Like, why do you think they're both the primary victim?
	Because they're both being affected negatively by war.
	Like it doesn't like.
	Tariq donated $30.
	I bet the redhead has a hairy butthole.
	What the fuck?
	You want to find out?
	Whoa.
	Yeah, I think they're both primarily affected.
	I mean, they're.
	Valdev donated $30.
	Caught up on the day episode.
	Hats up to you, man, for unironically and unintentionally making a perfect documentary of what men are trying to avoid in this modern dating hellscape.
	Love white top.
	Which one?
	Oh, she was.
	Is Valdev the one who always sends a TTS in when the person's like up from the table or whatever?
	Okay.
	Thank you, Valdev.
	Appreciate it.
	I'm going to pause that temporarily just so we can get through it.
	But if you guys want, TTS will be paused just temporarily to get through a couple things and then we'll let them come in and then we'll wrap the show.
	So, okay, really quick.
	So, negative impacts on both men and women, I actually agree.
	There are negative impacts to war for both men, women, children, etc.
	But is maybe worse for one gender over the other?
	I mean, no, I'm still going to stand on both.
	I think that both are negatively affected.
	I mean, yeah, men are getting blown up.
	But, I mean, women have to deal with, like, if they are relying on a man, they have to deal with not having the man in the house to help them.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, so can I ask you a question on this?
	So, who's the, I guess, when it comes, so you're talking about suffering, kind of, right?
	Men suffer, women suffer.
	Does when a woman gets pregnant and goes through pregnancy, childbirth, is the woman the primary sufferer or is the man, like the husband?
	The woman.
	Because it's really hard for me to see my wife or girlfriend.
	It's hard for me to see her in pain and she, you know, she's going to squeeze my hand really tight when she's going through labor and she might give me a bit of carpal tumbling.
	Ah, my hand, you know.
	She squeezed my hand really tight.
	I don't have the biggest hands, whatever.
	That's not the same concept, though.
	I mean, like, the woman and the children are being negatively affected, and you also have, like... I'm being negatively affected by you going through the pregnancy.
	Mmm.
	I mean.
	Yeah, he can't do much about it.
	He just has to sit there and watch.
	Yeah.
	Fair enough, but because wouldn't you say that the majority of the people fighting are men?
	Sure.
	So then women.
	But they're the primary ones.
	But isn't that your role as a man to protect, to fight?
	So why are you complaining about it?
	Yeah, so they're putting their lives.
	But they're the primary.
	Then you couldn't do it.
	They should.
	They're not complaining, though.
	They're just asking, do men.
	So let me ask you this then.
	So typically when it comes to war, now there will be ramifications, but let's say that you're 19, well, let me think here.
	World War II.
	So if we're looking at this from the perspective of the United States, so we went to Europe and we went to the Pacific Theater in World War II.
	Were we involved in the Africa theater at all?
	Anyways, that's besides the point.
	Aside from Pearl Harbor, there was not really any military action geographically in the United States.
	Actually, funnily enough, the Japanese, like here locally in Santa Barbara, they bombed an oil derrick or something like whatever.
	That's besides the point, though.
	We were fighting in other countries, and those were primarily the men.
	Now, the women, they lost their husbands or brothers or sons, whatever.
	Hard for them, right?
	But like in this instance, where because for example, you could make a stronger argument if, well, if they're fighting on your turf and the women are also like civilian casualties.
	Well, that's what I was going to say after that.
	I mean.
	But so if we're looking at, for example, when it came to the U.S. involvement in World War II, who would you say was the primary victim of war among United States citizens for World War II?
	I mean, there wasn't, I mean, other than Pearl Harbor, there wasn't anything going on on American soil.
	So, I mean, primarily when you're talking about the physicality of it, sure, men were the primary victims.
	Okay.
	Now, if we're in the U.S.
	Now, so let's even bring this, though, and apply it to you're a woman and you live in a country that's being invaded, right?
	So, there is a chance there for you to be, especially if you're close to the front, there's a chance there for you to be bombed or there's civilian casualties.
	Civilian casualties do make up both men and women.
	But if we look at the Ukraine war, for example, so all the Ukrainian men had to stay in the country, whereas women were allowed to flee.
	So, if you're a Ukrainian woman, you can just pass into a different country.
	You're going to end up in Austria.
	You're going to end up in Germany.
	You're going to end up in London, Stockholm, wherever.
	All the women could leave.
	All the men had to stay.
	Some of those men were drafted into military service.
	Not sure the exact numbers as far as how many of those drafted men died.
	If that was sort of the general thing that occurred in war, so men had to stay in fight, women were able to retreat and flee, would that not be?
	I mean, sure.
	I mean, if you, again, if you're talking about like in the physical sense of being a victim, yeah, obviously.
	But, I mean, I'm sure there's still women affected by it, like, physically.
	I mean, you also have the issue of like your whole entire life being derailed, and you don't know, like, the circumstances.
	We're gonna wrap in like 10 minutes.
	Can you just?
	It's kind of urgent, like, we have to get home time.
	Can you just finish up the show?
	We're gonna wrap in like 10-20 minutes.
	It really is urgent.
	What's urgent?
	You just have to be calm soon.
	Like, it's our parents are getting stressed out about it.
	They're getting home because I have class tomorrow.
	But right, but 10.
	You guys can't spare 10-20 minutes?
	I don't think that's a big ask here.
	It's just not something that's in heart.
	I'm sorry.
	We have to go.
	20 minutes is also much long for me.
	Okay.
	Now?
	I mean.
	I mean, there's still like notes and we gotta let the messages come through, but you can't even stay for 10 minutes.
	I'm sorry, like, we have to go now.
	There's an emergency.
	I mean, I don't have my phone or anything, so.
	What's the emergency?
	Just curious.
	What's the urgent?
	Our parents just really want us come for two hours.
	Yeah.
	No, you can't.
	Look, you're free to leave.
	I'm just.
	Sorry.
	Thank you so much.
	What do you think?
	All right, I'm just gonna let the chats go in.
	Mike Mafia donated $30.
	Is the redhead even real?
	Talking about birth control, make sure she gets back on it.
	Maybe you should go on birth control.
	Uh, Mike, thank you, man.
	30 donated $30.69.
	Question to all the girls on the panel: Israel or Palestine and why?
	You woo $69.69.
	Okay, thank you.
	Josh donated $30.
	Of course, the Austrian doesn't know about war victims.
	Wonder what her grandfather or great-grandfather was doing from 1933 to 1945.
	Ed Gudgens donated $29.99.
	Boss Mai asked Maddie.
	We all know this is your operation.
	You're a CCP spy trying to sow discord in the West and undermine Western woman, worsening our reproduction.
	Nice try.
	Sorry, I was not listening.
	Church underscore of underscore Scientology donated $30.
	If a man gets blown up, the woman will be sad and hurt.
	And find a new man.
	But that man cannot move on with his life and be unlonely.
	Oh my god.
	Rob underscore B donated $30.
	Thank you guys.
	Austria 8.5 Redhead 5.1 Adventure Chick 7.2 Blonde 8.3 Brunette 7.5 African Queen 7.9 Maddie 10.0 Brian 69.0.
	Alright, thank you man.
	William donated $30.
	Miss Piggy, if it's men's role to protect women, then it's women's role to have our children.
	Two can play at this game.
	Okay.
	Squadown donated $29.99.
	You said isn't that the man's role?
	Why would he complain about it?
	Isn't your role to have children?
	Why are you complaining about it?
	That's the role that they want.
	Walking Roscoe underscore on underscore YouTube donated $33.33.
	Good morning from Germany from a retired Iraq war vet.
	Grateful to be alive today by the grace of God.
	Brian, you and Andrew Rock.
	May Christ save you all.
	Ladies, name three branches of U.S. government.
	Anybody?
	Three branches?
	Legislative, judicial, executive.
	Boom.
	Kay Sean came in with the clutch.
	Fucking clutch answer.
	And I'm black.
	Wait, what does that have to do?
	What does that have to do with anything?
	Okay.
	All right.
	Appreciate it walking, Roscoe.
	Thank you guys.
	Let me see if there's anything else here before we wrap up the show.
	We'll get a Twitch raid going.
	One sec, guys.
	I think I should have freed the chat if you guys wanted to.
	Urgent.
	We must urgently urgent get home.
	Old man Marine donated $30.
	What of the single men in a war?
	What women in their lives are really being affected?
	I would like you to look a wounded soldier in the eye and tell them that you're a victim of war as much as them.
	Okay, I probably would.
	Oh, don't do that.
	Don't do that.
	Okay.
	Not sure what that was about.
	Let me see about let me just check who we're going to do.
	We don't want to disrespect the vets.
	I mean, I don't, but they actually get hurt.
	Like, they get lucious.
	Oh, we didn't even do Lucia.
	Okay, we have to do Lucia.
	Lucia.
	We didn't do all your notes, Lucia.
	So we'll do those.
	Then we'll wrap the show.
	You said your ex-boyfriend had another girlfriend without you.
	Jaivalik donated $30.
	Let the Austrian chick go home.
	She did nothing wrong.
	We're going to wrap up.
	We're wrapping up here in like five minutes.
	So really quick here thing.
	Here, I'll pause the messages so you can get through it.
	Yeah, I was 20 years old.
	He was 24.
	He was dating a whole other girl.
	But the funny thing, this is back when Instagram, like you could see who was liking stuff and whatnot.
	And he was liking all these girls' pictures, not hers.
	So I thought it was another girl.
	I had no idea.
	I had a hunch.
	And then she reached out to me.
	She explained her story.
	We became friends.
	And she told me all these lies that he said about me.
	And then he tried to, I think, hurt her physically.
	So yeah, he was a piece of shit.
	And she and I are cool.
	She actually just reached out to me pretty recently.
	Oh, wow.
	You said why ugly men have high standards for women.
	Yeah, I think it's very strange.
	Like, it's always the fugliest men have the most to say, in my opinion.
	And you're still a 10, right?
	Just checking on that.
	Yeah.
	Well, like, but who are you to appraise men of how they look?
	What if they think they're a 10?
	Well, again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
	I mean, what I might think is a 10, someone might think is, you know, a five.
	But, like, maybe these men who you think are ugly, like, actually, a lot of the women, a lot of women think they're tens.
	Okay.
	And so wouldn't it be fair for them to have high standards?
	No.
	Also, what's wrong with having high standards if, like, even if you're not attractive?
	I mean, I just think like you need to take a good hard look in the mirror and be like, all right, I'm a fugly man, and I shouldn't have such high standards.
	That's my take.
	Should fugly women also think that way?
	I don't think women are fuggly.
	I think some are.
	There's no, so there's fuggly men, but not fugly women?
	Absolutely.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Interesting how that that works.
	So, all are all women tens?
	Sure, yeah.
	Are all men tens?
	No, hmm interesting how that works.
	Um not even really it's fine, yeah.
	Um, I mean, it pretty much just plays into the arguments I made during the 10 segment, but yeah, um, you said that you disagree with a lot of things about the show, but usually the pick-me culture that gets encouraged on the show.
	Yeah, I just think like if you agree with whatever, obviously, you or like uh your other male ho or co-host, I don't know.
	Um, I think that you get a cookie, like it's like okay, you're automatically liked, you know what I mean?
	Or you probably don't know what I mean, but well, I mean, I invite, I actually give uh when it comes to booking people for the show, people who disagree actually get uh preferential uh treatment when it comes to slots and booking on the show.
	So, I'm actually very open to having my views challenged.
	In fact, one of the first questions I think we asked was, who has disagreements?
	Let's dive into it.
	But so, um, obviously, isn't that just human nature?
	Oh, yeah, cool, you agree with me?
	Oh, you disagree with me?
	Isn't that just like I mean, yeah, but I think too, it's like uh some of the values that some women have, like, it kind of contradicts like what it means to be a woman.
	Like, there's a lot that goes into like femininity, and I don't think that like some women respect themselves enough to like truly stand up for like objectively what is right, which is, I guess, subjective to some people.
	So, what is that?
	I mean, that's a lot to delve into.
	Well, I mean, and honestly, like, I'm over this conversation.
	You're over the conversation.
	I mean, it's um, like we can leave.
	Okay, fine.
	You can leave.
	I'll let you leave early then.
	I also have to leave.
	Yeah, just hang tight.
	You get to stay.
	We're going to wrap the show.
	I just, she gets the kick out right before the show.
	Oh, hold on.
	Because I have class tomorrow.
	No, just this is Sparta.
	Farmed.
	Peace out.
	Peace out.
	You too, homie.
	Cool.
	Okay, let me let the chats come in and then we're wrapping the show.
	This is how the old man Lauren donated $30.
	Hi, Kay.
	How are you?
	Can I take you on a date?
	I would move back to SD for you.
	You're beautiful and based.
	Much love.
	Light brown skin.
	Kissing face.
	Redhead.
	You're the devil.
	And not harsh.
	Oh, that's a good idea.
	You're a 10 if the scale is out of 1,000.
	Speaking of scales.
	Wow.
	All right.
	David Tuzekiak donated $30.
	This is not my opinion.
	I respect everyone that debates.
	My buddy, who is a vet from Afghanistan, says I can't take advice from these women.
	But I do personally respect people's opinions.
	Respect.
	Damn, bro.
	It's hard to put some shoes on there.
	Shit.
	All right.
	We're going to do a raid, guys.
	We're going to raid somebody.
	Who are you going to raid?
	Over there on Twitch.
	Let me see who we have.
	Broke.
	Okay.
	Here's the.
	Yo, you're.
	Look, I'm trying to be nice.
	You're 18.
	Have you ever gone out to a party?
	Don't Austrians go out to the club till like 4 a.m.
	Bro, you can wait two minutes.
	It's cool.
	It's fun.
	Bro, these 18-year-olds.
	It's 11.50.
	11.50.
	I'm at y'all party until like 3 in the morning getting fucking drunk and cross-faded.
	You can't sit in a high-rise apartment and just let me like be respectful.
	Let me wrap the show that I'm trying to do.
	Thank you, everyone, for staying through the whole show.
	Thank you, Brian Smith.
	This is an early one for putting on the great show as always.
	Maddie remains the most ideal woman in the room, though.
	Much love.
	All right.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Here, we're not even going to.
	I'm just going to raid somebody.
	We're not going to even show it.
	Those of you watching on Twitch, we are going to raid.
	I guess we might as well show because I have to do my outro shit.
	But we'll just do Woe Grandma.
	We'll just raid Woe Grandma.
	Let me get through the outro if you guys want.
	Last call, get your TTSs in.
	Okay.
	One sec.
	Let's wrap.
	Oh, last thing, Twitch.
	Nick, could you pull up Twitch?
	Guys, just go to twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow, drop us a prime sub.
	Twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow, drop us a prime sub.
	Guys, it's been 26 minutes since we last got a prime.
	If you can drop us a follow before you leave, drop us a prime sub before you leave.
	Really appreciate it.
	If you're watching on YouTube, just open up another tab, drop us a follow in the prime sub.
	Hey, DesiBro, thank you for clearing up the Twitch bug.
	Appreciate it.
	Drops a thing for the Prime Minister.
	Thank you.
	I thought it was bugged, but appreciate it.
	Okay.
	GG, well played to the panel.
	Last call, hit the like button, please, on your way out.
	Thank you for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you to everyone who super chats.
	Donates, supports the show.
	We will be live again Tuesday, 5 p.m. Pacific.
	Any girls who want to be on the show, DM out whatever on Instagram if you can make it to Santa Barbara.
	We're looking to expand the whatever team.
	If you live in Santa Barbara, you can also DM us at whatever on Instagram.
	If you live in Santa Barbara, you want to join the team, whatever.
	Nick, let's get the raid going.
	Do you have Woe Grandma pulled up?
	Okay.
	Thank you guys for watching on Twitch.
	Oh, sorry.
	Sorry.
	Last thing.
	Also on our Discord, pull up the Discord really quick, Nick.
	Guys, so we did a debate with Cray Cray Desiree on Thursday, and she, like, I don't know what you would consider it a flash, a assault, an attack.
	That's available on our Discord.
	Discord.gg slash whatever.
	Speaking as a fugly man, I am highly offended by Redhead.
	Can't believe he would disrespect his own like that.
	I mean, W, she gave me a, I mean, she just let me clip farmer, so she could have just kept it cool, but she gave me the kick, so farmed like World of Warcraft.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Thank you guys who watch on Twitch.
	Drop us one last follow.
	And we're going to raid Wo Grandma here.
	I'm going to send the raid now.
	Thank you guys who watch on Twitch.
	We're going to do the raid.
	Then we're going to wrap.
	Dang it.
	All right.
	She's playing World of Warcraft Retail.
	She's playing retail there.
	She's 83, guys, so be nice to her.
	Be nice.
	She's 83.
	Just tell her she should come on the show, please.
	Tell her she should come on the show.
	Well, it's not there now.
	It's a World Quest.
	That thing said World Riverbend, but it had added names.
	I'll never get that.
	Honestly, guys, I should not.
	I should just start playing World of Warcraft instead of doing the dating podcast.
	What do you think?
	Chat, what do you think?
	Should I just play World of Warcraft instead of the show?
	Whatever.
	Some more whatever.
	All right.
	All right.
	That's cool.
	Okay, cool.
	We can leave it.
	Oh.
	Hello.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I think that's it.
	Just double checking.
	Are we good on everything?
	I think we're good.
	Think that's everything, right?
	Not forgetting anything?
	Pretty sure.
	Oh, okay, fuck it.
	You got to pull it up really quick.
	Just to be safe.
	Lol Paladins donated $30.
	Come play sod with me, bro.
	Maybe, maybe once I'm done.
	Once I retire from this, I'll do it.
	Okay, pull up the thumbnail really quick.
	Yeah, I do want to apologize.
	The girl on the left and the right, same girl.
	She flaked.
	No-showed.
	We had another girl who no-showed.
	Super frustrating.
	These people just no-show.
	It's very frustrating.
	Anyways, she's in the thumbnail, so we have to do a quick reaction to it because she's in the thumbnail.
	On one hand, she's wearing a cross, but also titties out.
	Is that like, kind of like, doesn't make sense, you know?
	Also, a bit too much makeup.
	I would say, a bit too much makeup on the left and on the right.
	Way too much makeup.
	Not really commenting on the girl in the middle.
	She was here, whatever.
	Don't care.
	Too much makeup.
	The eyelashes.
	I don't know you guys know the fake you got fakes you got fakes I don't know.
	The fucking fake eyelashes.
	I'm not about it.
	It's kind of crazy.
	Madison, do you wear fakes?
	I have the same stuff.
	I don't like the fake eyelashes.
	Don't like the fake eyelashes.
	Don't like the lip filler.
	I think this chick has lip filler.
	A little too much makeup for my taste.
	You know what I'm saying?
	A little too much makeup.
	A little, the eyelashes.
	I don't know.
	Not really my thing.
	Look, big.
	A little too much.
	A little too much.
	Anyways, okay.
	All right.
	She was in the thumbnail.
	She no-showed.
	So fucking scumbag.
	All right.
	Okay.
	07's in the chat.
	Good night, guys.

▲