Whatever Podcast - 4v4 Debate GOD Andrew Wilson vs. Feminists! Virgin GIGACHAD! Jaquan! Farha!

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Dec. 4, 2023 - Whatever Podcast

05:57:47

4v4 Debate GOD Andrew Wilson vs. Feminists! Virgin GIGACHAD! Jaquan! Farha! | Dating Talk #124

Dating Talk is LIVE on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/whatever
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	Welcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast.
	Thank you for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
	I appreciate that.
	We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California every Sunday and Tuesday at 5 p.m. Pacific.
	I'm your host, Brian Atlas.
	I'm joined by my co-host, Kiki.
	She's a bit shy.
	A few quick announcements before the show begins.
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	Without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves.
	So please tell us your name, age, occupation, and where you're from.
	Go ahead.
	Hello.
	My name is Rosie Jean.
	I go by Quirky Love Rose on the internet.
	I am 32, just had my birthday a couple weeks ago.
	I am a full-time patient care advocate for a specialty pharmacy specializing in oncology, as well as a part-time vlogger on YouTube and just on social media hanging out.
	Okay, welcome.
	What do they?
	Hi, my name is Farha Khalidi.
	I'm 24 years old.
	I'm a content creator on TikTok and Instagram, but my best content is on onlyfans.com.
	Hi.
	Haram!
	Oh, age?
	Sorry, I missed that.
	28.
	24.
	24.
	Okay, my bad.
	Go ahead.
	Misty Marie.
	I just had a birthday too.
	And I'm an actress plus model.
	And what else was the question?
	Name, age, occupation, and location.
	Where are you from?
	Oh, I'm from Seattle, but I reside in LA.
	Okay, all right.
	Hello, my name is Kimberly.
	I'm 22 years old.
	I'm a caregiver slash babysitter.
	Can I have you tilt your mic down a bit?
	There you go.
	I'm a caregiver slash babysitter.
	Sorry, age?
	22.
	22.
	Okay.
	And I'm from Indio, Bicoachella.
	Okay, very cool.
	My name is Madison.
	I'm 19 years old.
	I'm from San Diego, California.
	I'm a full-time student at Santa Barbara City College studying business.
	I work for the Whatever podcast and I'm a host at a bar.
	The Q Phil, 30 years old, behavioral scientist, certified relationship coach, YouTuber influencer, book author.
	Mason Gregoire, as always, primarily a Christ follower.
	I am a mechanical engineer, content creator, competitive powerlifter, 27 years old.
	All right, welcome.
	Name is Andrew Wilson.
	I'm the host of The Crucible.
	So I guess I'm mostly a content creator now.
	I also work kind of in the same type of field, except in robotics.
	I'm 39 years old, happily married.
	All right.
	Welcome, everybody.
	So we're going to go around the table once more.
	What's everybody's current relationship status?
	So are you currently single?
	Talking, say, situationship, friends with benefits, relationship, married, polycule sex, cold harem.
	If you're single, how long have you been single?
	And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in?
	Go ahead.
	All right.
	So I am currently single by choice.
	I've been single for two years after exiting an eight-year-long relationship I spent the majority of my 20s in.
	And so I've just been choosing my own healing over relationships.
	And I've been almost almost two years free of dating apps.
	Two years free of dating apps.
	And your most recent relationship was the eight-year one.
	Is that correct?
	And that ended, did you say how long ago?
	So two years, three years?
	We ended.
	It ended a couple times, but it ended.
	Oh, it ended about June 2021, I believe.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So what, that's two and a half years ago?
	Roughly, yeah.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	Cool, cool, cool.
	By the way, do you want to do your reveal thing?
	Yeah, I guess you're going to have to Stevie Wonder.
	Here we go.
	Take the hat off.
	Thanks.
	Hi, face.
	Yay.
	Do you want to pop your glasses off too?
	I don't know.
	They had this coordinated thing going on here.
	They wanted to do it.
	That's what it was.
	They called me Stevie Wonder last time because I wore a hat.
	I was like, I'll wear my sunglasses in solidarity.
	It's sunglasses, solidarity.
	There you go.
	Farah, why don't you take off yours while they're?
	No, it's okay.
	They're not corrected, right?
	They're just like very real.
	There's no lens, right?
	So I'm single.
	I've been single for about a year and a half.
	Just fucking.
	I'm single.
	Curve that answer.
	Curve that question.
	I'm single and obstinate.
	My longest relationship was three years, and I've been single for a year and a half.
	Single and fabstinate.
	Obstinate, like fabulously obstinate, yeah.
	Okay, good times.
	I am also single.
	I've been single for about four years now.
	My longest relationship was probably off and on like six, seven years.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I'm single.
	I've been single for a year and a half, and my longest relationship was two years.
	You said single for a year and a half, longest relationship two years?
	Okay.
	I am not single.
	I'm in a relationship.
	My current one is my longest relationship.
	It's been about a year and three months.
	Okay.
	I'm single as in not married.
	I actively date longest relationship was three years.
	Wait, didn't you have like a main chick last time you were on?
	Is that?
	Still involved with her?
	Oh, okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	Ride or die.
	Mason, what about you?
	Currently single.
	Longest relationship a year.
	Yeah.
	Any lady friends sliding into the DMs after your last appearance?
	A few, you know.
	Okay.
	A couple.
	And want to educate, I suppose, the panel and the people that are watching who aren't familiar with you.
	Tell us a little, you know, little details about your situation.
	Little details about my situation.
	Yeah, so I'm a virgin.
	I'm sure that's what Brian's trying to get out here.
	Yeah, it's for religious reasons.
	I mean, as a Christian, it's something I'm convicted of.
	I mean, the Bible speaks on it all the time.
	So that's the stance I take on that, and I take it seriously.
	And more so that you're also waiting until marriage.
	Yes, I'm also waiting till marriage.
	Yeah, that's more so what I'll say.
	Exactly.
	There you go.
	Cool, cool, cool.
	Andrew, what about you?
	I've been married for a long time.
	Okay.
	Long time.
	Long time.
	Gotcha.
	All right.
	Cool.
	So, where do we begin?
	First, I just wanted to say this panel is a little somewhat impromptu.
	We had three other people that were scheduled to be on, but they canceled a couple hours before the show.
	So unfortunately.
	I got a statement from Gabby, too, by the way.
	She's got a text if you want me to read it for you.
	There's a statement.
	Yeah.
	It's not against you.
	It's just like her current dating situation.
	Oh.
	What do you mean?
	I thought it was an apology statement.
	I might accept an apology statement, but certainly not a here.
	My DMs are open.
	She had to work.
	She got booked on a paid gig.
	Oh, what?
	Yeah.
	That's fucking bullshit.
	That's bullshit.
	She works.
	You know, she's modeling for Nike now.
	Yeah, but we scheduled this with her like a month ago.
	Plus, not only, because she was going to be the ride for somebody else, she didn't come either.
	No, I think I was going to be the ride for that other person.
	I think they, you know, she just kind of got the other girl and maybe got nervous.
	I don't really know what happened with that because they were going to ride with me.
	Oh, they were going to ride with you?
	I'm getting so many different.
	I know the viewers probably are not privy to what's going on here.
	Well, I don't know.
	But she said that she was going to ride with Gabby, so I'm getting very different stories from everybody.
	Maybe I don't know.
	And you know what's crazy?
	That girl that was going to come with you, Shannon, she asked specifically for me to make this panel.
	Because we were going to do a plus-size panel.
	She was going to do it.
	She didn't tell me she was going to.
	I was going to come with Gabby.
	No, I mean, and we're pretty thorough with our reminders and check-ins, and we send her this.
	She's like, I'm going to book last minute.
	Sometimes that can happen when you're doing it.
	Well, yeah, but what Shannon said, Shannon told me that she, are you friends with Shannon?
	But she didn't tell me that she had booked this with you.
	Shannon told me that she wasn't comfortable coming with you.
	Oh, I don't know.
	Yeah, I'll literally read you the messages.
	So somebody, I believe you, frankly, but I think Shannon is lying.
	I don't know.
	Gabby told me she had an emergency, but you're telling me she had a booked.
	Oh, is Shannon the other girl that was supposed to come?
	I don't know her.
	That's probably why.
	Oh, I thought you did know Shannon.
	No, I was just going to be the ride.
	She was like, oh, it's my friend.
	So that could be.
	Okay, everything's changing.
	I thought you're talking about a different Shannon.
	I didn't know that her name was the other girl's name was Shannon.
	Hold on, let me just, let me look at the, hold on.
	I'm just curious.
	I'm going to look.
	Yeah, Shannon.
	In any case, she had an emergency.
	She had to.
	She had to go make money, right?
	That was a good idea.
	She told me she had an emergency, but she got a paid gig.
	But then that domino effect resulted in, and then we had another person flakes.
	So it's just.
	That's okay.
	There's people that flicked last time, too, and it turned out really good.
	Did it, though?
	Yeah, I like it.
	She did it, though.
	I like it.
	All right.
	Well, it is what it is.
	We're going to run with it.
	Okay, so It kind of throws my notes that I prepare it all because I spent three hours yesterday.
	In any case, we're doing it live, folks.
	Okay, so where do we begin?
	Oh, I mean, question.
	So this originally was going to be a plus size panel.
	So I want to ask the plus size women here, would you date a plus size man?
	Starting with you.
	Go ahead.
	Maybe I should.
	I don't know if you date women.
	I do have a limit, just not out of like not finding people of certain sizes attractive, but just frankly, logistically.
	Like, because I'm not just fat.
	I'm like fat, fat, and I'm very aware of that.
	And I just feel like, I don't know.
	I just feel like it's sometimes the aspects of dating make it's more difficult.
	So you're saying like if the other person was like also too heavy, there would actually be logistical problems.
	Yeah.
	Are we talking like sexually?
	Yes.
	Sexual influence.
	Yeah, I mean, like, I'm just going to keep it 100.
	You know what I mean?
	We appreciate that.
	We appreciate that.
	That's exactly what it is.
	So it's not.
	So it's like I mean like dad bods are awesome Like, plus-size guys are great.
	But, like, once it gets to a certain point, like, if I lost more weight and I was dating someone who was heavier, then it would probably not be as difficult.
	Yeah.
	Could have you tilt your microphone down just a tad?
	Perfect.
	Like that?
	That's perfect.
	That's perfect.
	Have you run into logistical problems like that before?
	I mean, not that I can think of.
	I mean, I have a pretty great sex life when I'm having one.
	I'm just currently not.
	Is it theoretical logistical problems?
	Like you suspect, like speculative, you haven't tried it with like a really big guy, but you just anticipate.
	Did you anticipate that there would be.
	I mean, basically, yeah.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So then the guy you were in an eight-year relationship, was he more like a dad bod type guy?
	I mean, there were points in our relationship where he was working out and he was in shape and then points where he had more of a dad bod.
	Yeah.
	I mean, okay.
	I don't really, I mean, I'm also like bisexual, like queer.
	So for me, in the aspects of dating, the attraction is important, but I have many different types and I'm not, I'm very non-judgmental and open-minded.
	So would you have the same logistical issues if it was a girl?
	I mean, probably not.
	Wait, so I guess to answer the original question though, would you date a plus-size guy also?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I would just like, because like in the like categories, there's like different categories for plus-size people and what I'm considered is like a super fat.
	And so when you're just, I'm just a lot heavier.
	What are the, just because I'm curious and I don't know, what are the different categories?
	Is it actually?
	It's like mid-size.
	And there's another, there's like something in between super fat and mid-size, and I just can't remember what it is.
	And then above that is infinity fat.
	Yeah, that's like the thing with fat accepted space.
	Infinity.
	Infinity fat.
	Yeah.
	Infinity fat.
	I've never, has anybody else heard that?
	I've never heard of that.
	No, wait, you're not saying infinity.
	You're saying infinity.
	No, infini fat.
	Infinite.
	Infinity fat.
	Infinity.
	Wait, what is what is infinite?
	Someone who's above a 6X.
	Wait, infini fat.
	6X.
	Like at that point, it's just stretch clothes.
	So is that like an American 6X?
	Is that like a Japanese 6x?
	There's fate.
	Japanese 6x.
	Do Japanese 6x.
	Exactly.
	Fair enough.
	Is that what they're called?
	I've just Googled it.
	Yeah.
	I searched it.
	That's like the terminology within fat acceptance movements.
	Yeah.
	I've recently been speaking out against my experiences.
	I was a part of the body positivity spaces since like 2013.
	Yeah.
	And I had a TikTok that I was a part of from another podcast interview I did that went really viral.
	And that experience was crazy.
	But that was like, that interview happened right before I did a collaboration with Obese to Beast.
	And like right before I really have been, I've been on this trajectory of a healing journey, like mental health wise.
	And now I'm like working a lot more on my physical health.
	From my highest, I'm down like, I think 60 or 80 pounds.
	Okay.
	And actually, like, I'm documenting all this on my YouTube, but I just got approved from Anjaro and I'm like starting that process.
	And I left the fat acceptance movements like officially a couple months back because the fat acceptance movement.
	Yeah, like there's a lot of problematic aspects to it, but it did a lot of good for me in other parts of my life and like learning to love myself and accept myself because you have to be your own best friend, you know?
	So you're trying, you're trying to, do you have a goal weight in mind?
	Not really.
	My goal is to go horseback riding and ride roller coasters.
	That's my goal.
	Okay.
	What's the tip?
	Does anybody know the thing?
	I think the typical horseback?
	I don't know, horseback.
	I think it's like probably around 250.
	I think it's 250.
	And so I pulled it up here.
	The fate agories, not rude.
	Yeah, just.
	I mean, I prefer to be.
	I don't want to get it.
	I prefer the term fat versus bullshit, like chubby and fluffy and shit like that.
	I like being called chubby respectfully.
	Okay.
	Oh, okay.
	All right.
	So fat's going to be per person.
	You know what I mean?
	So, hey.
	Per person.
	I'm chubby, like Minnie the Pooh.
	But also, look at me.
	I'm not chubby.
	So, and I pulled up.
	You know what I mean?
	I pulled up the, for the, the, the fat spectrum, there's small fats, mid-fats, large fats, super fats, and infinifats.
	Yes.
	Wow.
	Interesting.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	Is there incentives to stay in those categories?
	Is it like, maybe if you're talking to a feeder?
	What's a feeder?
	Somebody will try to pay you to eat.
	They like, they like, they think it's hot and they try to get you to eat and they like give you money for it.
	Yeah, I'm an XOF model.
	Oh.
	I left.
	What does that mean?
	I used to be on OnlyFans.
	I used to be in those spaces online.
	I thought of that.
	Tara Colab in the works.
	Yeah, let's do it.
	Collaboration.
	Yeah, no, no, no, I think I've actually seen your TikToks.
	Like I said, you look familiar.
	And then when you said, I was like, oh, yeah, I think I've seen you on my free.
	What was the TikTok that you said went viral for you?
	On the We're All Insane podcast.
	Was it about the incel?
	Actually, the one that went viral, viral was me talking about being groomed into feederism by my stalker.
	Oh, shit.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	That's a whole thing.
	But I was, I mean, and the big misconception on the internet is that that's what I blame my weight gain on, which it wasn't.
	I joined when I was already where they pretty much want you to be.
	I don't have, we had another clip from you pulled up, but we don't have the one about the feeder thing.
	Okay.
	So if you want, how long is that TikTok?
	It should be only a minute.
	It's a minute?
	Do you want to just tell us basically what you say in the TikTok?
	Oh, man.
	It's been a while since I've watched it, but I basically just talked about, like, I just basically explained what feederism is.
	And actually, more specifically, death feederism, which was like hyperfixation with my mother.
	Maybe we just pull up the TikTok.
	Yeah, we're all insane is like her and TikTok name.
	What should we, oh, she posted it on her TikTok?
	Yeah, that's what that's what it went for.
	If you're able to look that up for us, it's called We're All Insane.
	Yes.
	Her name is Tevora, by the way.
	She's amazing.
	She gives people platforms to discuss on their more serious topics.
	Like, it's pretty heavy.
	She seemed like a good piece of it.
	I watched some of it.
	Yeah, she just kind of sits back and lets you talk.
	Is she in the LA?
	No, Maryland, actually.
	Maryland, though.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Out in the States.
	Well, I flew up there for that, and it was a really great experience.
	She's so warm and welcoming.
	I love her.
	Gotcha.
	While Nick gets that pulled up.
	Yeah.
	Oh, you think you got it?
	The install one or the other one?
	I'm patient assistant.
	Okay.
	Hi, my name is Rosie, and I was groomed into feuderism.
	Feederism is a kink.
	Like a sexual kink regarding feeding someone generally for the purpose of them being fat or getting fat or gaining weight.
	There is a big umbrella when it comes to feuderism.
	And the thing about this guy is I think he was into what's called death feederism.
	And death feederism is what it sounds like.
	It's feeding someone to the point of getting so fat and so big that they die.
	That's like the movie Seven.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Wait, where did you see that at?
	Where's Seven?
	Where can you watch that?
	Yeah, that's Brad Pitt, I think.
	There was a scene in the movie where they made a serial killer guy made him eat to do to eat himself to death.
	I mean, that's the like.
	That's incredible.
	That's like the torturous, like, darkest, like, twistedest version of the most dramatized version.
	That's a little bit extreme.
	Right.
	And that's the point.
	Like, death feuderism is the most extreme version of it, but really, it's like the accumulation of like what the smaller parts of it that seem more innocent, more incestuous.
	And that was the relation.
	Your eight year?
	Was that your relationship?
	No.
	Oh, okay.
	I had a stalker.
	It was the same timeline.
	And it's a long story.
	I won't be bothering getting into here because I'd be dominating conversation.
	But I just have one question.
	How do you know the difference between the person who wants you to die from feuderism and the regular feuderism?
	Does it seem like they all would want you to die?
	That's a great question.
	And yes and no.
	Yeah.
	Because most of them just don't care about whether or not you're going to die because they're getting the rocks off.
	So it's not an aspect to them.
	Some of them are turned on by the extremity and the, I guess the control of some sort.
	Yeah, it is.
	And I mean, what a lot of people present it as is like, it's like being nurtured and cared for.
	But what it is, is it's actually like the toxic version of that because the real incentive is there's aspects of it where some were, and it's not, I'm not speaking for everyone because some people, especially in the community, hate me because I talk about my experiences and how I really feel about it now since I've left it.
	But they like worse parts within that sphere, it's like trying to hold someone down.
	Or because of society's perception of women's bodies, they see it as like a, oh, like other men won't find her attractive.
	It's like, you know, the incentive of being immobilized or whatever is like about control.
	And that's for the worst and the darkest parts of it.
	But unfortunately, it's very prevalent in like the communities.
	I'm not going to say the name of the website for several reasons, but there's a specific website where like you really see it in extremity.
	And the community within feuderism allows people to really just kind of sit in their like, you know, what's the word I'm looking for?
	Like it's a lot of my head, but basically like well, I have a question for you.
	Yeah, sorry, I lost my question.
	Yeah, that's totally fine.
	So, you said the guy who was trying to feed you to the point where you could potentially croak.
	Well, what I said was...
	Did you date?
	Did you date that guy or something?
	He was my stalker.
	So I met them.
	I met my ex and my stalker within three days of each other.
	We met offline, and I really quickly realized I wasn't into the other guy and wanted to start to the other guy.
	He blackmailed me.
	He basically made it to where I couldn't remove him from my socials or he showed me his abilities to clone phone numbers, like hack people.
	It was insane stuff.
	And so I'm just giving you the really brief version because I don't have to.
	How long ago was this?
	So I met them some, I think at some point in 2012, 2013.
	And I met them separately.
	And I was very, it was basically one of those things where I was just like talking to people to potentially date.
	And I think that's a good idea.
	So that's a stalker?
	I picked who I wanted to date who wasn't the stalker.
	Yeah.
	And then the stalker, I mean, in 2021 was when he like hacked my cash app and cloned my phone number and did a whole bunch of stuff because he played the long game.
	finally blocked him that's when he he kept his word to me.
	Is he still?
	I scared him off because I got background checks.
	I got his information.
	The police didn't help me.
	So I let him know I was going to blow his life up if he didn't leave me alone.
	Well, sorry to hear you went through that.
	How was he grooming you into feederism?
	I'm going to be careful what I say because of how the topics go.
	I talk about this in detail on that podcast, but essentially, in the coercion of things that happened, I was forced to meet him in person when I didn't want to because I had family in a city where he lived.
	And if I didn't, things were going to transfer.
	Yeah, we don't need to go.
	But anyway, basically, but that scenario had something happen related to the topic.
	And then in the conversations where I was forced to talk to him and I knew that I couldn't not talk to him, he continued those conversations and the nagging and several other things.
	The man knew I was.
	Yeah, and we can definitely try to revisit it.
	I just want to get misty in here.
	So would you date a plus-size guy?
	I have once.
	Are you attracted to plus-size guys?
	I'm attracted to intelligent guys who have active lifestyles who will treat me like a princess.
	Doesn't really answer the question, though.
	Yeah, because I don't really believe that it's going to be like, you know, like I can say no and then someone could like change my mind.
	And so then I was wrong.
	Well, do you remember, like, for example, last episode, we had, I forgot her name.
	What was her name?
	The girl that was sitting there.
	Do you recall?
	I'm not the name girl, but she was really sweet.
	Yeah, sweet girl.
	But she said, she was also plus-size and she's like not attracted to overweight, plus-size guys.
	So.
	Yeah, what she was talking about was more of a self-esteem issue.
	She said she didn't want to be like that.
	So she thought that that was going to lift her up and like make her something.
	For me, I don't, I don't know.
	I just.
	I mean, you say you could change your mind.
	Doesn't that infer that right now, though, you wouldn't?
	It would depend on the person.
	It really would.
	It would depend on the person.
	The dates that I've gone on recently haven't been.
	So, like, if it was just in a vacuum, just their looks.
	So, I mean, obviously, if you meet somebody online, you're probably going to ask them a couple questions to figure out, do I like this person?
	But so, I guess just looks-wise, would you be attracted to someone who's plus?
	It really would depend.
	It really, really would depend.
	It really would.
	Genuinely, generally, I'm attracted to like athletic tort built.
	My exes, I've all been pretty athletic, and the guys I'm talking to now are athletic.
	So, but that's also because I was an athlete growing up, and so I was always very active.
	I was also chubby then, but so that's just part of my lifestyle.
	So, I think that's probably what I'm around, like what I see at the gym or.
	So, I guess it would have to be like, so I just tell me if this is a fair assumption.
	So, you probably say that you're not inherently attracted to plus-size guys, but you would be attracted to the other things that they would be able to offer.
	So, like, say that would depend, though.
	It really would depend on the.
	Because there's plus-size men that are really, really attractive.
	Well, can I take a stab at this maybe?
	So, assume that you had two men, and they all had the same personality traits that you just loved, but one was super fit and one was not, right?
	If you had to choose one of those, even though they're personality traits, you love them the same, which one would you choose?
	Who has the bigger who's got the bigger digits?
	Okay, they have the same size dick.
	I guess the one who could go longer.
	No, okay.
	They both go the same length.
	Well, then I guess it wouldn't matter.
	Can I have them both?
	No, you just get one.
	Which one would you pick?
	I don't know that I would, I don't know.
	Like, that's for me, that's the what-ifs are so crazy, but like, I don't know, like, right?
	Because I'd have to have it happen.
	And, like, in what world would that happen?
	Well, I mean, it doesn't need to map onto reality.
	It's just testing the preference, right?
	Yeah.
	So, but I just, I couldn't tell you.
	Like, I would really, it would have to happen for me to be like, yes, for sure.
	Because life, and I'm a strict believer in like universe and everything happens for a reason, has so many times shown me the exact opposite of something I thought that I don't, I'm not going to claim to be like, oh, no, not this.
	Huh?
	So, I mean, and to be fair, I mean, I've also changed men's mind about they don't want to date a plus girl, and they're like, but I'm into you.
	So, I'm, I'm, I don't know, I just you love those looks, Brian.
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	Uh, okay, so the answer sounds like a no.
	You can call it what you want to call it.
	I'm not not into it, I just it depends.
	I'm avoiding saying no.
	Are you on dating apps?
	I am on dating apps.
	So, the people that you're swiping right on, are they, would you say that they're?
	I would say I'm looking at how tall they are, what is their job, and what is their like picture showing.
	Um, I've swiped yes to both sides.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Especially if we look like if they say things that are going to make me like feel good, like you know, I'm a nice guy.
	I don't know what they would say, but something that would make me be like, oh, he seems cool.
	She got a paid gig.
	She got a paid gig, and she knows it hours before the show.
	Sorry, I'm just still caught up on that.
	Inspector Gadget over here.
	Like, wouldn't you, and she got a paid gig on a Sunday?
	I know that she loves you so much, though.
	Sorry, I'm just salty about this.
	I'm still confused about the Inspector Gadget.
	Yeah, that got me.
	Because he's trying to make his wheels turn to try to figure something out.
	You guys never watched Inspector Gadget?
	No, I wanted to know in advance if there's a paid gig.
	And how many gigs are on Sunday?
	Oh, man.
	I would say, like, Sherlock Holmes.
	Okay, that would have been cool, too.
	Yeah, usually, like, say Inspector Gadget because there's gadgets involved.
	Exactly.
	Because, like, arm pops off.
	That comes to my mind.
	So, were you, your answer to the would you date a plus-size guy?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, okay.
	And fuck it.
	We'll just ask the whole table.
	Would you date a plus-size guy?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I. Is there any room for you?
	Is it too tight?
	We are super tight.
	Okay, that's fine.
	That's fine.
	Just go ahead.
	I have like a limit.
	Like, I like dad bods.
	Okay.
	I like dad bods.
	You like dad bods?
	All right.
	Truthfully, no.
	What if, so you're currently dating Frankie, right?
	What if Frankie just like chow town and just I would never let him get to that point?
	What if he what do you mean?
	Frankie's a giga chad alpha man.
	What do you mean you wouldn't let him get to the point?
	He's just like, I don't care what you have to say, Madison.
	I'm gonna eat Chick-fil-A every day.
	Frankie, are you listening?
	Bro, just start eating a bunch of pizza.
	What if Frankie just started putting down the pizzas?
	I feel like Frankie's gonna stay, but still, I would never let him.
	Frankie's gone.
	What do you mean, let him?
	What if he just did?
	What if he just started?
	I'm the person that feeds him.
	I'm the person that cooks for you.
	You cook for him?
	I'm not gonna.
	Oh, yeah, you guys live together, right?
	Yeah.
	What if he was like behind your back when you went to work, he like had a bunch of snacks and shit, and you didn't know about it?
	He does eat a lot.
	He just has an issue with gaining a lot of weight.
	So it's not even like I have to get it.
	I could put him on my diet.
	There you go, yeah.
	You guys will get along very well.
	I'm getting a little chat.
	Okay, all right.
	So, but if he got, let's say just he happened to, you know, he had like some storage unit somewhere and during the day, he would just run to the storage unit and chow.
	That's fair.
	Yeah, maybe.
	I would think about it.
	Okay, all right.
	And asking the men here, would you guys date a plus-size woman?
	No.
	No, Chikwan?
	No?
	Nor?
	Never?
	What about a thick girl?
	Depends on how you define thick.
	Thick is very different from plus thick.
	Yeah, it depends on how you define thick.
	I mean, I like a good waist to hit ratio.
	I like a little bit of thick thighs, I guess you could say.
	I need a little bit of recoil, but not recoil.
	Yeah, I need a little bit of recoil.
	Okay.
	I need a little bit of recoil back shot.
	It's got to look crazy.
	But in terms of like the midsection, like arm flap, things like that, I'm not attracted to that.
	Okay.
	Nason, what about you?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I probably wouldn't.
	I mean, like.
	What if she was a like a Christian virgin, though?
	Well, that's what the other girl was last time.
	She was a virgin member.
	Yeah.
	And she was Christian.
	So this would have been perfect.
	A match made in heaven.
	Yeah, facts.
	So, like, I don't know.
	The way I kind of look at it, so I mean, gluttony in the Bible is defined as a sin.
	And it's not just like, it's not gluttony just in the sense of eating a ton of food.
	It's like also partaking in other things too much.
	So, but it can pertain to food.
	So in that sense, it would be like, so you have the sin of gluttony, but then you take it all the way to its final stage, which is being overweight.
	So I would say it's a heart issue, but also there is like, it is like an illness or disease.
	So like there are, there are mental things that play into being overweight that have to be taken into account.
	It's not just as simple as eat less and exercise more.
	I mean, it is as simple as that, but it's not as simple as that.
	Because if you did those things, you would lose weight.
	But at the same time, you have to take into account the psychological effects.
	So I understand that.
	But then, so I see it as like a sin issue.
	I also have a pretty active lifestyle.
	I want someone to be able to do stuff with me.
	Someone who takes care of their body, that's a high priority for them because it's high priority for me.
	It's also just what I find attractive.
	So it's just all of those things kind of put together.
	So if they had like some sort of illness that predisposes them to be obese, so they're not sinning, they're not being gluttonous, maybe they consume less calories than you.
	Would you take that into account?
	Or are you still just not attracted to it?
	So, okay.
	It's impossible to be in a caloric deficit and gain weight.
	So if they're eating in a caloric deficit, it is a physical impossibility to gain weight.
	Is that true?
	I'm pretty sure you could just have a super low metabolism.
	That's just CLS.
	Well, so that's caloric deficit means that you are eating less than your body is using.
	So you, in order to be in a caloric deficit, you have to be using more than you're consuming.
	It's like saying that I could, if I put less gas in my car than it needs to actually make a trip, that it could make that trip.
	That's impossible.
	Right, so maybe they're not in a caloric deficit, but they're also not being gluttonous, is my point.
	Well, so if they are overweight and say they're just in a maintenance stage, like they're maintaining their weight.
	But if they are overweight, it's also in the Bible, we're called to steward things well, steward things wisely, our health as well as our finances, all of our resources, whatever.
	So I want them to steward their health well as well.
	So if there are plenty of negatives to being overweight in the area of health, and I would want them to work with me so that we can hopefully get that down.
	Because I want them to be around with me for a very long time.
	I want them to see my, like our grandkids, maybe great-grandkids.
	That'd be pretty sweet.
	But yeah, I think being overweight would limit their ability to do so.
	Okay, so you'd feel like equal repulsion to someone who's also like unhealthily underweight.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And if you were married to a woman and she birthed your child and then she had some trouble pushing off the weight afterwards, would you be lenient with her?
	Oh yeah, of course, I mean.
	Would you consider her gluttonous for maybe like spending a few years, I don't know, just enjoying her mommy weight?
	Well, so I don't know.
	Well, if she's, I would want her to probably maintain her active lifestyle.
	So like there's a lot of research that's been done into, so people or women who have, as they're pregnant, studies into is it safe for them to exercise while pregnant.
	I know in the powerlifting world, so squat bench and deadlift, it is perfectly safe to maintain your habits in the gym as long as there's like no discomfort.
	Like if it's it's painful, okay, maybe we'll like change the exercise selection.
	But it's safe to maintain physical activity while pregnant and then afterward, like, of course, I'm not going to like dump my wife if she gains a little weight after she's pregnant.
	Like I'm going to try to work with her on that.
	Because I love her more than just like her physical appearance.
	And I appreciate you saying the aspect about the being mental and not just down to caloric, because that's the mechanics of it.
	But the entire compassing issue, especially, I mean, like I, for me specifically, it is far more complicated than just eating less.
	Because, I mean, I do, I have multiple eating disorders.
	I have multiple chronic illnesses and invisible disability.
	I mean, I'm considered disabled with the diagnoses that I have.
	And that's not my weight.
	Outside of my weight, I'm disabled.
	Yeah.
	Whale underscore whale underscore whale donated $200.
	My sprinkler goes like this.
	That's really funny.
	What a great thing.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	That's good.
	$200.
	Make it longer next time.
	Just to say that.
	We could do a beat so we can rap to it.
	Whale, whale, whale.
	All right, we have Brady Beard here.
	Brian, I don't even know what to say.
	LOL, you've really outdone yourself with this panel from Maddie to the left.
	It's nice to see you all.
	Based, Christ is Lord.
	Okay.
	There you go.
	Thank you.
	Whoops.
	Hold on just one sec.
	Well, you're married, so I don't know if it's fair.
	That's fine.
	I speak to it.
	My wife put on some weight after she's had many children.
	So, yeah, she put on some weight.
	Took her a few years to burn it off.
	Now, I might just have different preferences because I didn't know.
	I just didn't even really notice it very much.
	That's just me personally, right?
	But it could be that frog in the boiler effect where just because it happened gradually over time, I just didn't really pay much attention to it.
	But then she burned most of it off.
	So, you know, I just didn't think much about it, honestly.
	There you go, folks.
	Are you the same just out of curiosity as you were?
	Are you the same as you were?
	Yeah, I haven't really fluctuated much in weight my whole life.
	Okay, not much.
	How about you, Brian?
	Would you date a plus-sized lady?
	Would you date a plus-sized woman?
	If they have a big labia, plus-size labia.
	The biggest one you've ever seen.
	The biggest one I've ever seen.
	Yeah.
	How plus-size are we talking about?
	Do all plus-size women have plus-sized labia?
	No, no, that's not how that works.
	That's like asking about a guy's baby.
	Yeah, yeah, for labia.
	You know, sometimes it's not that good.
	Labia is good.
	Maybe I give it a chance.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	It's got to be that.
	You changed your tune a little from last time.
	Last time you were like, hell no, we won't go.
	I mean, I'm still pretty much on that.
	Oh, well, I don't know.
	That's not what the people just heard.
	Being a hypocrite?
	I don't know.
	Not a hypocrite, but who knows?
	You threw in the caveat of she has, like, for example, if she was also like a billionaire and she's like, Brian, let me just retire you, marry you without a preen up.
	I might have to go for that.
	You might.
	You'd be like, yes, mommy, take me, stop.
	You Oprah?
	Any billionaire.
	Are you kidding?
	What's the lifestyle like?
	You got to wear a collar and be on your knees.
	Uphold my.
	Whoa, okay.
	No, no, no.
	I ain't doing the.
	You're not going to do that.
	That's the billionaire.
	What do you think?
	What do you think?
	You won't do for your billionaire.
	For a billionaire?
	Yeah.
	No, no, no, no.
	He's got a bad.
	I can't be a what?
	What's that called?
	A sub or whatever?
	No, no, no, maybe you're different.
	For that.
	I don't know.
	Chat, would you guys do it?
	Would you like, let's say you run into a billionaire woman who will retire you?
	So let's say you're a bricklayer making, I don't know, $70,000 a year, maybe more, maybe less.
	And you don't have to do that back-breaking work anymore, but.
	No.
	But she wants to, three times a week, walk you around a collar around the house.
	That's going to be a yes.
	Yes for me.
	I don't think so.
	I don't think so.
	Okay.
	What did you say you were into last time?
	What if it's shorter Asian?
	You said short, chubby Asian ladies.
	You said you kind of like.
	I could see.
	I think she's going to want to do it.
	A little chubby.
	I can do a little chubby, but like, I don't know if I could date.
	No, no hate or anything.
	Just my personal preference.
	I don't think I could date like a plus size woman.
	A little belly fat, that's okay.
	A little chubby.
	Yeah.
	I can do it.
	I don't know why I'm talking like Tony Soprano now.
	That's how Inspector Gadget talks.
	Exactly.
	Yes, exactly.
	I like Inspector Gadget.
	It's my kind of go-to.
	You're right.
	Oh, there's no hate on Inspector Gadget.
	Are you a singer?
	Oh, it sounds like I do, but no.
	Oh, okay.
	I can like hum pretty fiercely.
	I was going to see if you can sing the Inspector Gadget theme song.
	Do, do, do, do, do, Inspector Gadget.
	Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
	Nice.
	I can already tell that I don't like you.
	Okay.
	I like you.
	I missed the whole go gadget go part.
	Go, gadget, go.
	Good time.
	Wait, oh, okay.
	So, okay, we got single, single, single, single relationship, and then single, single, single.
	Okay, good.
	So you said you've been single for two years, correct?
	Yes, about so.
	Okay.
	And by choice, by choice.
	You said you used to do OF.
	Are you still doing it or not?
	I used to do it.
	Well, I used to, so before I actually made an OF, I did like, I've always compared it to like the high-end escorting version of virtual content creation where I just kept like a Google Drive and I would only sell privately through me for like, and I wouldn't go below a certain monetary number.
	Like you had to spend minimum this much and you would get what you paid for.
	But I didn't have streaming services like OF or any clip sites because I had had some issues with people on the internet in the past.
	And so I just felt it felt safer, even though it's technically not.
	But I did eventually create an OF and then not long after that, I left because I left those communities like entirely.
	Right.
	Well, so you've been single by choice for two years, but in that two-year period, I mean, have you been, maybe you didn't have a boyfriend, but were you dating, any situationships, friends with benefits, anything like that, or not?
	I mean, I have like a couple, like long-standing situationships if they come to like fly to see me.
	Okay.
	And it's like one of them I saw like in February, just because life's busy, you know, they have like a high-paying, like important job.
	So I always used to see them like more regularly, but eventually just kind of like fizzled out because I used to also live closer to them.
	So that changed things too.
	Okay, so you, you, it sounds like you have currently a couple ongoing.
	Yeah, like if we talk, we talk and like it's so good terms.
	And in the past, you know, couple years especially, I've just been more hyper-focused on myself.
	And like, I want to have like a long-standing, committed relationship.
	That's my goal, whatever that looks like.
	And I also have just kind of realized that like the frivolous dating, the like dating app games, the meeting for coffee and like going on dates every other week, life is just not what I want.
	I want something a lot more like real and emotion-based.
	And the current dating field and dating game just grosses me out.
	And it's just something that I don't want to put a ton of energy into.
	And it's just like people playing games or whatever.
	You mean, you know how it is.
	I know how it is.
	Yeah.
	It's terrible.
	If you've ever been on dating app, you know what it's like.
	They've commodified more.
	You got Bumble Hinge, all these apps.
	Farmers Only, Christian Mingle, these apps.
	Maybe, have you tried that one, Mason?
	So when's the last time you were on the date?
	Recently?
	Any recent prospects or not so much?
	Not recent, but I did go on dates like once I moved to Florida.
	So I moved to Florida in October of 2021.
	And so my initial thought process was kind of like getting under someone to get over them.
	And I did that for like a month or two.
	And then I was like, I'm out.
	This is done.
	Wait, get under someone to get over them.
	Oh, yeah.
	Like, I had that mindset.
	And then I realized that That's not healthy.
	And you said that lasted for like a month, a month period?
	A couple, like month to couple months.
	Like, because I was like on Facebook dating and Bumble specifically.
	And so, how frequently were you going on dates during that period?
	Um, sometimes it was like two a weekend, sometimes it was like every other week.
	It just kind of depends.
	I mean, I, um, I was, I think I was working a part-time job at that point because I was still kind of recovering from some stuff.
	Yeah, I like took a break from working for a little bit.
	And so, how long?
	Um, so you said you were going on a couple dates.
	Um, you said get under someone to get over someone.
	So, we're talking kind of like just casual hookups type stuff.
	Well, like the first couple times, yes, like because the first guy I met up with, um, he had a really weird name.
	His name, I don't want to say it, but it was, it was, it was fish.
	Fish.
	His name was Fish.
	Fish.
	Deadass.
	Like, his legal name.
	Like the animal.
	His legal name.
	I mean, did I ask for an ID?
	No.
	But he went by fish.
	And I was like, yeah, like, it's just fish.
	Was he pescatarian?
	By chance?
	We didn't get to know each other that well.
	I was still emotionally very unavailable at that point.
	So pescatarians don't eat fish.
	Yeah, yeah, you're not.
	Yeah, that's Terry.
	That is what I eat.
	Seventh day at Venice.
	Wait, so question for the ladies related to fish here.
	If you were dating a guy named Fish, would that make dirty talk a little difficult?
	Oh, Fish.
	Yes.
	Feels so good.
	No, by the time that's happening, I probably like you a lot.
	I'm probably getting used to your weird name, so I'm probably going to have fun with it.
	If I was dating a girl named Fish, I would have to change her name.
	I'd have to call her like F Dog.
	That would be better.
	Yeah, really.
	I think it would be better.
	I think it'd be better.
	Oh, F Dog's better than O Fish.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Okay, I didn't think it through.
	I didn't fully think it through.
	Wait, so okay, the first guy was named Fish.
	And any other situations?
	I think the most, this is just thinking to, this isn't even when I was dating in Georgia, but because my ex and I, we broke up for nine months, like four or five years into the relationship.
	And that was a time.
	But in Florida, I think the most notable date, because like I went on like a couple ones, like with the dinner dates, whatever.
	Especially like, because like my first couple dates, I was just kind of like, like I said, that was my mentality.
	And then I was like, I'm out.
	And then I started trying to do like more like structured dating.
	Like actually trying to find something serious.
	Yeah.
	And then I was like, oh, I'm not ready.
	So that's when I backed out.
	I was like, because I'm not totally.
	Yeah, that's when I quit dating apps.
	I've been, it's been about a year, at least a year and a half.
	I don't see, I just one day out of the blue decided to quit dating apps.
	And I didn't even realize it that I was going to make it a thing for a couple months.
	So I don't know.
	I don't remember the exact pinpointed time.
	Right.
	But I know it for sure a year and a half.
	And but the other one was when I went out with a guy with one leg.
	Damn.
	Yeah.
	Dating in Florida is weird.
	Amputee.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Dating in Florida is weird.
	That's the problem.
	It's where I live.
	And that was another reason why I was like, I'm out.
	Where are you meeting guys if you're not using dating apps?
	At the time, I was using them.
	And that's this.
	So those were my stories before I quit.
	Because I decided, I didn't just quit dating apps.
	I quit dating, period.
	And I did some like light talking phases, but nothing stuck.
	And I've only been like feeling like in the past couple months that I might even be ready to start dating again.
	I've just been, I've been flirting with the idea of downloading the apps again, but I just haven't like during your get under someone phase.
	How many people did you get under?
	In Florida, a couple.
	A couple.
	One leg was one of them?
	Yes.
	You got under one leg guy.
	You talk about logistics.
	Well, yeah, did that create logistical problems?
	Actually, it made it easier.
	Oh.
	Easier.
	I could kind of see that.
	Me too.
	It's one less lip.
	Yeah, but how did he get leverage?
	There's ways.
	When there's a will, there's a way.
	He just crawled on top of you.
	When there's a will, there's a way.
	He has a, what's it called?
	A prosthetic.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	No, he didn't.
	No, she mean like one leg.
	Oh, okay.
	No, I mean, I mean, at least during he didn't.
	Wait, so not two legs then.
	I kind of would date an amputee.
	I mean, me too.
	That's what I'm saying.
	It was chill.
	Well, it's easier for us.
	Again, I was just so emotionally not of age.
	Have you been with?
	No, I'm just saying.
	Like, hypothetically.
	Like, logistically.
	No, it's just easier for us.
	Yeah.
	To date an amputee than an amputee date.
	Yeah, because, yeah.
	I would go for a double amputee.
	Oh, my God.
	Whoa, Nick.
	Jesus Christ, this guy's going to get me.
	Fucking canceled over.
	It's not even on the show.
	Like, would it have to be a configuration, though?
	Could it be like both arms or both legs, or does it have to be one leg and one arm?
	I'd want double leg.
	That's what he was meaning.
	I'd want double leg amputee.
	Okay, what?
	Do you object to my sexual preferences?
	Hello?
	Really?
	Not at all.
	Go for the gold.
	Please don't discriminate against people who are disagreeing with.
	Abelism.
	That's very ableist of you to.
	Ladies, he's screaming your name.
	If you have missing two legs, Brian wants you.
	Yeah, I'll accept one missing leg because I'm a nice guy.
	It's only because you'll be under four feet.
	I'd prefer two missing legs.
	But I'll do so she can't run away, Brian.
	I couldn't help it.
	I couldn't help it.
	He set me up for that one, man.
	Good talk.
	Wait, so okay.
	Now, and right now you're not dating at all, pretty much.
	You're just kind of doing your own thing.
	Well, like I said, I've been like before you reached out, I was, I started like probably about a month prior.
	I was like thinking about it, realizing I feel like I'm ready, but I've just been like dealing with a lot of other stuff.
	And I have other things that are higher priority to me.
	And I'm really kind of subscribed to the belief that like what's meant to be will be.
	And I'm not trying to force anything.
	I'm not desperate for a relationship.
	I would much rather be single and die alone than be in an unfulfilled, unhappy, or abusive relationship.
	And so for me, it's like the right person, the right connection will come if it's meant to be.
	And I feel like you have, you've got Riz.
	So like, thank you.
	If you wanted to, do you think you could like pretty quickly like get a new guy?
	I know that if I didn't give a shit about the quality of the relationship, I could get a boyfriend in five seconds.
	In five seconds.
	I do.
	And people, if you want to think I'm delusional, I mean, not you, just people.
	If people in general want to think I'm delusional, I know that they're wrong and they live in a very like binary understanding of love and attraction.
	And they're not willing to see things like outside of a different perspective.
	So people who are like committed to misunderstanding me or the plus love experience, I have no interest in debating the validity of my right to have love and relationships.
	After you're kind of, you've had some viral moments recently, did you get a lot of people DMing you like with a romantic interest?
	Like they wanted to slid into the DM.
	Not to sound cocky, but that's something that continually happens.
	And so I just don't take it seriously unless I think it's like, because I have standards.
	I have things that I want and things that are important to me.
	And like attraction is important.
	And also just other certain things.
	So I believe that both people should mutually be super excited to be together.
	And if that's not there, then I'm not interested.
	I see.
	And you mentioned you've got standards.
	Do you consider yourself picky?
	Yes and no.
	I feel like I just know what I want and I'm not going to settle for something that I find boring or uninteresting or not the right fit.
	Yeah.
	And you mentioned you kind of know what you're looking for.
	You've got standards.
	So I'm just curious, like kind of what are your standards?
	What are you looking for?
	And we're going to go around the table for everybody on this.
	What are you looking for?
	What are your standards?
	If there's any like, trying to think of the term here, must-haves, you know?
	Some people have the bare minimums, you know, height-wise, income, stuff like that.
	Personality traits.
	For me, personality traits are the biggest.
	For me, it's like I want us to have similar moral compasses.
	I, you know, I'm an ex-Mormon, so I'm not really interested in being with someone who's like super religious of any capacity because, and like, that's like, I respect other people's beliefs, but my lived experience, I think that would be difficult for like a committed relationship.
	So when you say moral compass, you mean a lack of moral compass?
	No, I mean I'm a very spiritual person and I didn't.
	I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as an insult.
	No, I know.
	You bring up, you say this person X was hyper-religious, right?
	So yeah.
	So you don't want that quality.
	So if that's not the quality that you want, then it seems like you're looking for an absence of, okay, so what would be the morals you're talking about?
	What I'm looking for is someone who has a moral compass that's driven by the desire to do good and be good without needing someone telling them to be that way.
	Because you can be an atheist and be the most kind, philanthropic person, but that does not mean that you can be hyper-religious and not be evil.
	Yeah, I agree, but does that mean you're looking for an atheist?
	No, I mean just someone who's not hyper-religious.
	If they're Christian, but they're not hyper-religious, I would be fine with that.
	They were spiritual, they were Jewish, they were atheists, ethnostic.
	Even when you say this, sorry to just kind of want to dive in on this a little bit.
	When you say not hyper-religious, what does that mean?
	Like they don't go to church every Sunday.
	fanatical or i mean um if they went to church every sunday but they weren't trying to convert me that'd be fine as long as i wasn't forced to go to church like so to me it's just so you don't so what it is is you don't want a partner to uh move their morality towards you that's or Or expect me to align with their religious beliefs because I believe registered beliefs and moralities do not have to be intrinsically tied, even if they are for a lot of people.
	Okay, so you're not looking really for a person who shares your morals, but just a person who won't force their morals on you.
	Correct, but I would want them to have a certain level of right, but just like not a serial killer or that type of thing.
	But I'm just not necessarily like boxing on like they need to be Christian, they need to be this.
	Okay.
	They need to, you know.
	What about height?
	Height?
	I mean, I have a preference.
	Sure.
	But.
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	I mean, I prefer, like, you know, I'm 5'6, so 6 and up is like perfect, but I dated someone for a really long time who was 5'9.
	That was great for me.
	Okay.
	But yeah, just a little bit taller than me is my bare minimum preference.
	But I would date someone if everything else was perfect and they were shorter than me.
	Like being short's not a deal breaker.
	Okay.
	Farah, what about you?
	What are you, what you're looking for?
	I don't care too much about height, build, or physique.
	I do want someone with super high sexual discipline.
	So a guy who has a low body count, preferably, since I am waiting to marry, and I prefer a guy, or no, this is a deal breaker.
	I wouldn't date a guy.
	Grid one motorsports donated $200.
	When the only thing you can bring to a relationship is being fat, selling your fatness online, and ebbing on disability, how much of a moral compass can you possibly have?
	If you think my fatness is a negative quality, that's not my problem.
	I'm not here to please anybody.
	I'm here to be me, share my story.
	I am employed.
	I do a lot, and I'm disabled.
	And if you're disabled and unemployed, that's okay too.
	The bottom line is what I choose to do with myself and my interactions with other people defines who I am.
	And I really just, I am not interested in people who are committed and misunderstanding me.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	We'll come back to you, Farah.
	Also, let's just avoid any sort of name calling if we can with the chat and the TTS guys.
	Thank you.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, high sexual discipline.
	I wouldn't date a guy who watches porn or goes to strip clubs or anything like that.
	And ideally.
	But you wouldn't date a guy who watches porn?
	Nope.
	But you 2OF?
	Is that a...
	Seems like maybe a double standard.
	Is it a double standard?
	No, it's not.
	I could be a college professor, but not date students.
	I could work at a soup kitchen and not date a homeless guy just because I monetize off a demographic doesn't mean I have to date them.
	Well, let's get into this.
	Let's get into it.
	Let's start with why do you prefer that they not watch porn?
	Because it affects parabonding.
	It desensitizes you to your partner.
	It can lead to erectile dysfunction, all those things.
	If you were responsible for causing those things in a man, would you be doing an immoral action?
	Potentially.
	And are you participating in doing those immoral actions to men?
	No, just because I think maybe you're less of a good romantic partner, that doesn't mean you're less of a moral person.
	No, no, no, that's not my question.
	Because I don't think you would be a good husband for me doesn't mean I'm deeming you degenerate or a bad person.
	You just said that all of those are bad qualities that you said that you were for me personally.
	What I'm looking for is finish.
	You said that any person who was causing those problems in men would be doing something immoral.
	No, I didn't say that.
	So is it if a person's contributing to causing that in men, are they doing something immoral?
	So if I'm a lesbian and I only want to date women, don't ask me a question.
	Don't ask me a question.
	Answer my question.
	No, I'm giving, I'm explaining to you.
	Okay, listen.
	Listen.
	Don't ask me questions.
	Is this inconsistent?
	I'm going to ask you a question.
	If I'm a lesbian and I only want to date women, try to make OnlyFans content for men.
	Is that inconsistent?
	I think she's trying to.
	No, she's asking me.
	No, he's evading my point.
	She's asking the question, not answering my question.
	Then I'll answer your question.
	Your question has no bearing on.
	This is just a message.
	Then answer it.
	What was your question?
	Okay, one more time, since you tried everything to avoid it, if you contribute to those same problems that are against your preference in a mate, okay, those same issues, are you doing something immoral?
	Nope.
	No.
	Same way, like I just said, if I'm a lesbian who puts out pornographic content for a man to consume, it's not inconsistent or wrong for me to only date women.
	I can have a preference for someone while monetizing off an entirely different demographic.
	That doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong.
	So.
	Am I doing something wrong for indulging straight men if I don't want to date women?
	I think you are.
	I think so.
	That makes no sense.
	You're creating a contribution towards the immorality, and you know it's immoral because I don't think it's immoral to be heterosexual and I'd be indulging heterosexuality while personally being homosexual.
	Preference alone is against it.
	Why is your preference against it?
	Isn't there a problem?
	Why would sexual orientation be against it?
	No, answer my question.
	Why is it if I was a lesbian and I want to date women, but I put out pornographic content that indulges heterosexual men, is that inconsistent or am I contributing to that?
	All of that, literally all of that would be immoral.
	I would say that that's still an immoral thing, whether or not you're not.
	It is not a reason that you're being inconsistent there.
	I didn't make an inconsistency argument.
	I asked you about whether or not it's moral.
	You said if I don't want to date a certain pool that I'm contributing to, does that mean I'm creating a problem?
	Yeah, no, I'm just asking, is it immoral for you to contribute to that at all?
	No.
	It's not.
	It's not immoral for me to contribute to traits which I personally would not date.
	No, that's not my question.
	My question is.
	Is it immoral for you to be contributing towards those traits like the negative side effects in men?
	Is that immoral to do?
	No, because not everyone has the same goals as I do.
	Not everyone's waiting to have sex until they're married.
	Some people view sex and relationships completely disparately than I do.
	But why wouldn't you?
	Those are all negative side effects.
	You'd agree with that, right?
	It depends.
	Some people, I know a lot of women who don't want to get married.
	I know a lot of men who don't want to get married either.
	The side effects of like ED, things like this.
	Well, that side effect doesn't happen to everybody either.
	I'm not saying it does.
	I think it depends.
	If certain men want to live a hedonistic lifestyle, I'm not going to deem them immoral for.
	I think people have totally different purposes and goals.
	It was, and I answered it.
	My question specifically was, if you contribute towards that, that's harmful, isn't it?
	And isn't that the standard you use?
	It's harmful if it's congruent to their goals.
	If their goal is to be a hedonist, then that's fine.
	But their goal is not my goal.
	Okay, but here's the thing.
	If their goal is to jack off to as many girls as possible before they die, they can go for it.
	Because if it's hedonism, right, you still have a harm principle.
	So even if a person is doing a thing and they say, I'm going to do this thing because I don't care about the harm, you are still supposed to care about the harm that you cause, right?
	No.
	No, you're not?
	Because they have a totally different moral rubric than I do.
	If their goal is to fuck as many girls as possible because they think that makes them more alpha or male male, here's what their moral rubric is.
	You're the consequentialist.
	What?
	So you are supposed to care about the harm you do.
	I'm not a consequentialist.
	We've been over this so many times.
	Oh, what are you again?
	I said I was a moral absolutist.
	You're a moral absolutist.
	Yeah, probably more that than a utilitarian.
	Exactly.
	You're not a subjective person.
	You're not.
	No, no, you're not a moral absolutist.
	It's ridiculous.
	What is that?
	It means like you're not necessarily looking at the consequence of an action to deem its morality.
	My point is people have totally different goals.
	Okay, so is porn always wrong?
	No, absolutely not.
	Okay, is it always right?
	No.
	Well, moral absolutists.
	If it was a moral absolute, it would either be always right or always wrong because it's absolutely true, it varies.
	Give me an example of a moral absolute that's not yes or no, right or wrong.
	I would love to.
	With porn, for example, porn will disaffect your relationship if one partner is okay with it and one is not.
	That will affect cheating and compatibility.
	If both partners are proponents of pornography consumption, that it'll actually increase your sexual intimacy with each other.
	What does that do with anything I just said?
	My point is you're looking for like a black or white answer as porn or bad.
	It depends on the party's business.
	What do you think absolute means?
	You don't know what absolute means.
	I know what absolute means.
	But what is it?
	I think you're intentionally being obtuse.
	No, I think you're intentionally evading.
	What do you think absolute means?
	No, answer my question.
	What do you think absolute means?
	Definite, finite.
	Finite and definite at the same time?
	At the same time.
	That's what you think absolute means.
	Absolute means definite.
	What do you think a moral absolutist is?
	It means you have certain moral principles that you think take precedence over the consequences of those actions, and you want to be a proponent for those moral principles, even if there is an increase in harm over help.
	Okay, so it's not about consequences.
	What?
	It's not about consequences for you at all.
	It's not about consequences.
	It's about looking at the fact that people have different aims.
	If a certain man wants to prioritize his sexual pornography consumption over getting married, because he personally doesn't think getting married is a net good for him, who am I to say that's wrong and I'm contributing to a problem?
	Are they ask a single question, right?
	You would agree with me that the age of consent is arbitrary, right?
	Would I agree with you that the age of cons.
	Is this TOS, Brian?
	No.
	Okay, the AOC is arbitrary, right?
	Is it arbitrary?
	Yeah.
	Not really.
	Then give me the moral imperative for it, real quick.
	The moral absolute statement for that.
	The moral imperative would be that it's generally wrong to say that.
	It's not based on the consequence, though.
	What?
	It's not based on the consequence.
	This is an absolute.
	So why should the AOC absolutely be X-H?
	It's not.
	It varies.
	Why should it be?
	You're a moral absolutist.
	I don't even know if I would subscribe to that.
	You wouldn't subscribe to your own worldview?
	I don't even know if I would subscribe that there is a certain age of consent because it varies by state.
	So you're not an absolutist then?
	You're evading from my whole.
	You said that it's hypocritical and it's inconsistent and it's kind of immoral.
	I'm contributing to a moral problem to put out porn consequences.
	His question was whether or not there's a problem.
	No, you're the one who interrupted.
	You're going to have a double standard.
	I asked you about the morality of a thing.
	Yes, and you said I'm creating a problem by contributing to traits that I personally would not date.
	Yeah, and that's completely uncomfortable.
	And now I'm inside of your worldview.
	And now I'm trying to get away from that.
	And I want you to address the analogy I created between that and meeting a lesbian and wanting to date women.
	I'll explain it.
	But not wanting to date strangers.
	Yeah, I can explain it.
	Because if the foundation of your worldview on its own is incorrect, then I don't care about the rest of what you even just had to say.
	If the foundation of what you're saying makes no sense at all, any claims that you make past that are not even relevant.
	So explain to me how you're moral.
	Tell me what a moral absolutist even is.
	I don't even know what this has to do with anything.
	Your rebuttal to me was that because I don't want to date certain traits that I may contribute to, that I'm being hypocritical and I'm creating some moral problem.
	And then I give you a perfect analogy.
	If I was a homosexual woman and I dated women, but I contribute to indulging heterosexual male pornography consumption, is that wrong?
	And you have yet to address that point.
	I don't need to.
	Why can't you?
	I'm going to explain it to you.
	If the underlying foundation for which that current worldview you just want to do is stop talking far, it's my turn far.
	It's my turn far away.
	But then it means that I'm being hypocritical.
	Calm down, stop spurging.
	Stop spurging and listening.
	Wait, let's not use that word.
	Let's not use that.
	It's probably TOS.
	Sperging's not against TOS.
	No.
	So you can tell me.
	So listen, if you have a foundation for an ethical system, and then you tell me a thing that you ought or ought not do, and I find out that your ethical system itself is inconsistent, you don't even know what it is, why would I ever listen to a word you had to say about ought to be?
	Because this is your chronic evasion of every point.
	Is when I give you a perfect analogy and say, C, this will make you concede on your rebuttal, then you're like, oh, no, explain to me from A, B, to C, your exact moral worldview.
	Yeah.
	Why is that a problem to me?
	Because then we're going to go all the way backwards, and you're like, let's talk about where rights come from.
	Let's talk about where duties come from.
	Let's talk about all the things that you're going to do.
	Let's talk about the foundation of the things you believe.
	Isn't that crazy?
	How was the universe started?
	Let's talk about that, right?
	What's your go-to argument?
	Are you going to answer to what a moral absolute is?
	You want to answer my initial question, which is why was that a false analogy between making a whole argument?
	I'll just concede the whole argument there for the purpose of you.
	Don't concede.
	Actually, give me an answer.
	Answering this question.
	I just concede it for the purpose of the argument.
	What's a moral absolute?
	What's a moral absolute?
	No, no, no.
	I just conceded it for the purpose of the argument.
	Stop saying for the purpose of the argument.
	Why not?
	Genuinely.
	I can't.
	I'm sorry.
	I can't test your consistency by conceding the argument just for the purpose of testing the worldview.
	That's the same thing.
	That's a preference.
	And you created a rebuttal, and then I gave a perfect rebuttal.
	Yeah, and I'll just concede it for the sake of argument.
	Where are you from your rights come from?
	Where do your ethics come from?
	I'll just concede it for a while.
	What's the moral absolutist?
	It's fine.
	Every word in the dictionary for me is conceded.
	Enough for the sake of the argument.
	I'm genuinely asking you, why is it a false analogy?
	I'm just conceding it for the sake of argument anyway.
	Any concern for the sake of the argument?
	Let me get back to what you because I need to.
	No, I'm not interested in talking about it.
	But I actually didn't talk about the foundations of your own ethical system.
	Ethical system.
	We're talking about sexual and romantic preferences.
	But why would I care what your preferences are if you can't give me any type of ID for why it's ethical or unethical?
	So I should just never talk if I can't flesh out to you how the universe started.
	You should never make an opt claim.
	Where whites come from.
	You should never make an odd claim unless you can say you ought to do this based on the same thing.
	You made the odd claim.
	Let him talk.
	You cannot say, Andrew, you ought to do this.
	And when I say, why ought I do that?
	You go, I don't fucking know because I really feel like it's.
	It's so funny because you're the one who made the odd claim.
	I'm saying, I want to date a guy who watches porn.
	And then you said, then you ought not to contribute to that problem if you don't want to date a guy.
	I ask you if you should.
	Yeah, so you created the odd claim.
	I'm saying my preference is completely correct.
	If you'd like to know my worldview, yes, it's all total degeneracy.
	I hate it all.
	I think it's all immoral.
	What's a moral absolutist now?
	Can you answer the question?
	My point was that I'm not sure.
	I'm not saying that this creates certain traits.
	That doesn't mean I think it's morally wrong.
	Answer the question, what's a moral absolutist?
	A moral absolutist is someone who has certain moral principles that they think take priority over the consequences of those actions.
	And they think those should be honored with precedence over a utilitarian worldview.
	So, why is it then that you're giving me an argument from the consequence?
	How did I?
	Because you're saying.
	Baby check, thank you for the gift of 20 memberships.
	Go ahead, Andrew.
	You're saying.
	Okay.
	So what you're saying here is.
	I didn't even give you a consequence.
	You say pornography, not immoral, right?
	Not necessarily, yeah.
	Not necessarily.
	But if we try to discover why it's not, the reason that you say the reason it's not always immoral is because there's some consequences that I think are better than other consequences.
	That's why.
	Even then, that has nothing to do with morality.
	It would for an absolutist.
	If I prefer a partner who's six foot over 5'10 and I'm preferring the consequence of their height, that doesn't mean I think 5'10 men are immoral.
	Unless you're short.
	Or there's something morally wrong with being short.
	You wouldn't say, I'm a moral absolutist.
	I believe that this X thing is absolutely always immoral.
	I'm asking you why are we conflating romantic preferences with a moral rubric?
	Because it's an odd claim.
	No, it's not.
	That is.
	Same way if I said I prefer a tall guy over a short guy, that's not me saying, oh, then, you know, it's bad for me to contribute to something that decreases height in men.
	Yeah, but that would be a preference.
	In this particular case, you're not talking about a preference.
	I'm asking you about the morality.
	I'm not talking a preference.
	Same way again, if I could be indulging heterosexual men while being a lesbian.
	We can go back and talk about that.
	Yeah, okay, fine.
	So we'll just do, you think it's moral because your preferences, and I think it's moral because my preference is, but you're a moral absolutist.
	I didn't say moral.
	I literally said morality has no bearing on my romantic preferences in this instance.
	You're the one bringing that morality for no reason.
	Same way again, I can like a guy who's a certain race or a certain height, and that doesn't mean I'm claiming all other men are immoral.
	Then Farah.
	If I prefer women as a woman, am I calling men immoral?
	All we're talking about is I like water and you like lemons.
	Yes.
	Right.
	Then why, if we're making the discussion about these things which are going on inside of consistency issues, things like this, like he was talking about, or you claiming you're a moral absolutist, things like this.
	We're now outside the realm of preference.
	We're now into the realm of Farah's worldview.
	So I'm trying to figure out.
	I'm not sure if you're a romantic preferences and I'm saying why does romantic preferences even fall within the worldview of morality?
	Because what if you're a romantic preference?
	If I prefer a guy with a big dick over a small dick, does that mean I think guys with small dicks are immoral?
	I'll tell you.
	Because what if you indulge in your preferences and they're actually against your own morality?
	Then are you doing something immoral by following that preference?
	Right, and I'm saying I'm not deeming those guys who watch porn or go to strip clubs immoral.
	I'm saying for what I'm seeking in a romantic relationship, those are not traits that would be preferred to be available.
	Right, so you're saying they're not immoral, and I'm trying to show you that I think you think that either A, you're right and they're not immoral and you're a consequentialist, or I don't think it's immoral.
	I would be friends with guys who watch porn.
	If I actually thought it was immoral and I thought it was like akin to an actual moral wrongdoing like murder or the R-word, then I wouldn't be friends with those people.
	I wouldn't be friends with girls and guys who watch porn or go to strip clubs.
	How do you determine whether something's morally positive or negative?
	It would be case by case.
	I can't flush out a perfect moral possibility.
	Would it be based on the consequences of that action?
	I'm asking you, what does morality have to do with a romantic preference?
	Don't you have to listen?
	That's a bait and switch.
	It's not.
	That's my question arose.
	I think when I ask you a question, you answer with a question.
	What he asked you specifically is, how do you know something you're doing is moral or immoral?
	I don't know.
	I don't have a pure moral framework at this point.
	So you're not a moral absolutist.
	No shit.
	I said I probably subscribe to the moment.
	There you go.
	You're a consequentialist.
	You're a consequentialist.
	You took murder and you take all of these other things based on the consequences of what happens in that scenario.
	So murder.
	Okay, if someone commits murder, it's a negative.
	I'm pretty sure moral absolutism is against murder.
	Come on, just let me finish.
	So if you commit murder, the consequence is negative because you take someone's life.
	You take human life.
	So that's a consequence.
	So you're looking at the consequence and you determine it's bad.
	You don't take, you're not pulling from an objective standard.
	And you are taking your interpretation of the consequence and then conflating that with negativity.
	If you think moral absolutists wouldn't object to murder, you're deranged.
	Then tell us what your standard is.
	For why someone should be against murder that doesn't fit the consequences for your standard of what your morality is based on.
	I don't even know why we're talking about morality.
	I know that you don't know, but now why...
	You're using this as an evasion because you don't want to concede on the point that my preference is completely...
	Here's what you're actually saying.
	You're not saying, I don't know why we're talking about morality.
	You're saying, I don't know the answer to your fucking question.
	Yeah, I don't have an answer for what is your perfect moral framework.
	Your moral framework is based on something you don't even know.
	Don't even know.
	Yeah, you don't even know.
	You can't write 300 pages to flesh out their morality.
	They can't give you a two-sentence quip on the whatever podcast.
	No, they say you say the foundation.
	No, because if I asked you, you'd probably say, like, oh, I subscribe to Christianity, but then you probably have some exceptions to that.
	And you could maybe flesh those out by giving me an internal critique, which I'm fine with because I follow Christian ethics, which is exactly what I'm doing to you.
	Can you explain how this pertains to my romantic preferences?
	So you just told me, you said, I have a worldview.
	I can't justify my worldview.
	I don't even know how I came to the worldview.
	I don't even know what my standard is for morality.
	But this thing over here, that's not immoral.
	What the fuck are you talking about?
	I'm saying, how does morality, can you explain to me why morality even pertains to this conversation of romantic preferences?
	Because if we're talking about pornography, we're coming at it from two different standards.
	I'm saying that the standard is immoral.
	You're saying the standard is moral.
	I'm saying I'm going to justify morality.
	You say you can't justify your morality.
	I want people to listen to the guy who can justify their morality and not to the person who absolutely wants to.
	Here's my two-sentence, cute little answer.
	I think generally people should aim to self-actualize and genuinely they should like seek to fulfill their autonomy.
	So if someone has a certain goal for themselves that generally is not harming someone else, and for instance, like they want to fuck as many people as possible.
	What does self-actualize mean?
	You know, live up to their potential.
	I don't know if that's congruent with a Christian framework.
	I don't even know what that means.
	I mean, all this is consequence-based.
	It's dependent upon the outcome.
	That's not true.
	It is, though.
	Self-actualization is consequentialist-based.
	I think you can self-actualize and maybe not have nothing to show for at the end of the day.
	But I think an absolutist with a little bit of the effort and the intention.
	That's literally what an absolutist is.
	Okay, you're giving a preference.
	You're just saying you're just talking about the absence of negative outcomes.
	So, I mean, it is consequentialist.
	Consequentialist just because it also happens to overlap with consequentialism.
	I'm asking for the standard and you're just giving us preferences.
	Why is it that my romantic preference has anything to do with morality or why is it inconsistent?
	I know it sounds bad to say I do OF, but I went to a guy who does X, Y, and Z.
	But genuinely flesh it out because right now it just sounds like you guys have an unjustified visceral reaction to the fact that I sound like a hypocrite.
	You can actually flush it out.
	Okay, so let me flesh it out for you one more time.
	Flesh it out without just asking, oh, right, give me a two-sentence moral framework.
	I'm not even going to ask you a question.
	I'm just literally going to flesh it out for you.
	If I ask you why you wore a blue shirt over red, and then you said, I just prefer blue, where I say, okay, then it's immoral to wear red, then why is mine not a preference?
	You would have to make a justification for that.
	Unless you're saying that your entire moral framework is just a preference.
	So if you were to say I look better in a blue shirt than a red shirt, and I were to say, I looked at the black.
	Oh, then you're selfishly motivated.
	Why are you only interested in what you like?
	Maybe you should survey the panel to make a good argument.
	Find out what we prefer looking at.
	We're the one who's going to have to stare at you for four hours.
	But when you say, that's kind of a weird rebuttal to why you chose a blue shirt over a red shirt.
	Is that your argument?
	I'm showing you how ridiculous it is.
	No, my argument's not ridiculous.
	What is it?
	It's completely ridiculous.
	Then stop talking.
	Let me make my argument.
	What you're saying is just a sequence of preferences.
	You're saying, Andrew, why did your preference to do this thing, which you have a preference to do, that nobody considers immoral, including you and I, why did you do that thing?
	I say, well, because of preference.
	You go, oh, okay, makes sense.
	It's a preference.
	All you're giving us right this second for the entire standard, for your entire morality, is your preference.
	Not morality.
	I'm saying my romantic standards are more akin to why you chose a certain shirt over another.
	Almost done.
	Almost done.
	You let these male guests blow vape, but if I talk for more than two seconds, then she's made so much.
	Oh, it's so unfair.
	Disrespectful.
	I didn't say it was unfair.
	And it never stops you guys for her ever.
	Well, because this is what the male audience.
	Okay, coming up.
	I'm sorry.
	You know what, Farah?
	I know I was just about to lay the entire groundwork for my epistemology and you don't have any, but you go ahead.
	I'll chill out.
	Is that what you think I was having rebuttal to?
	I was saying the fact that he will always cut me off after two sentences, but let any male guests on this panel blow vibe for like three minutes plus, even if it's not related to the conversation.
	And I cannot.
	Nobody's going to be afraid of that.
	I'm not making a fight with you.
	No, no, no.
	I equally, I make fair attempts to let everybody speak.
	I will pay someone to comb through this and create a chart of how much you're going to reflect.
	You go ahead.
	Talking about dating preferences.
	I'm so lost.
	But he knows that he can't let us slide.
	If I'm an OF girl and I say, I went to watch, like, date a guy who watches porn, so he has to know how to dunk on me ethically, even though it doesn't pertain to ethics.
	Let's continue.
	Let's continue on.
	So Andrew is making a point.
	How does it not hurt?
	He got so angry.
	How does it not hurt?
	How does it not pertain to children?
	How does it not pertain to ethics if you tell me that you're doing something that's unethical?
	It's like this.
	I didn't say, did I sound unethical?
	Anyone in my initial answer?
	Did I say I wouldn't do it because watching porn is unethical?
	That's what your argument is.
	What your argument is, you go to me and you're like, hey, Andrew, I'm about to go commit murder.
	And then I go, wait, you can't do that.
	And here's why.
	And you're like, I didn't want to have a conversation about my ethical standards.
	I just wanted to tell you that I was going to go commit murder.
	That's your argument right now, Farah.
	It's not.
	My argument is exactly akin to saying maybe I would wear a blue shirt over a red one.
	And I'm saying it's a preference.
	No, I'm saying from my standpoint, you doing OnlyFans is immoral.
	You agree that that's true?
	But that wasn't even the argument.
	If you want to discuss the morality of sex work, I'd love to get into it.
	Did you say you're on OnlyFans?
	Yes, but that wasn't your rebuttal to me.
	Your buttle to me was that I'm contributing to something wrong while not preferring a partner.
	But the reason I wouldn't prefer those traits in a partner is not because I think it's not a problem.
	I think it's because it would create a partner that wouldn't be as pair bonded to me.
	That was the whole point.
	And what did I tell you?
	The point was of me saying, wait a second, you're contributing to X thing by being on OnlyFans, right?
	Yes, I am contributing to X thing.
	That doesn't make X thing immoral because I went date early on.
	So now we can get into why X thing is immoral.
	Let's do it, but then concede that that doesn't mean I was calling X thing immoral.
	I literally told you for the purpose of the argument.
	For the purpose of the argument.
	Like, why won't you let it move on?
	Because you didn't even dress you were wrong.
	You created a rebuttal.
	That's what I was saying.
	And then completely switched the topic.
	I'm still trying to get into the ethics of this thing.
	But we can get to the ethics of the family.
	So are your ethics?
	I would love to.
	Is it just a preference?
	Is it just a preference?
	Is what a preference?
	The fact that you say that OnlyFans is moral, the fact that you say, like, apparently, I guess prostitution is moral.
	When did we say moral?
	Stop.
	I didn't mean to say that.
	Stop, Cara.
	I just let you talk, right?
	So are you saying that OnlyFans, you're making the claim, OnlyFans, moral, right?
	No, I did not say that.
	And I know you know I didn't say that.
	I literally said we can discuss the morality of it.
	I was saying there's nothing.
	It's immoral.
	Immoral?
	As a moral absolutist, is it immoral?
	Sorry, is there no such thing as moral neutrality, such as you wearing a flannel versus him wearing a leather jacket versus him wearing a fetch?
	You can say moral neutrality.
	It's morally neutral.
	I'm fine with that too.
	I would say it's morally neutral.
	It's morally neutral.
	Well, it depends case by case.
	Is it absolutely morally neutral?
	No, that's why I said case by case.
	Are you absolutely sure?
	Same way I could probably find a way to say maybe you wearing these certain shirts aren't exactly morally neutral because maybe a child sewed that shirt and then we could get into it case by case.
	But generally I can say it's morally neutral for you to have different shirts that you're wearing.
	Is that fair?
	Sure, it's morally neutral for me to have.
	Is it okay for me to ask you to justify the morality of your shirt?
	So hang on.
	So OnlyFans to you is just like me wearing a shirt.
	It's morally.
	I said it's case by case.
	Same way exactly.
	I don't know.
	Maybe if you had a four-year-old make that shirt for you today, then we can get into it.
	So we get into it's a case by case.
	So is it based on the model, the consumer, the relationship?
	So inside of OnlyFans, how would you evaluate absent bad consequences, the things inside of OnlyFans that you would consider moral or immoral?
	Probably the ethics of sex work.
	So typical things like whether the model is being groomed into it, whether the consumer.
	Next.
	Whether the consumer is honest with his romantic partner about it.
	That's not consequence.
	Then why would you value it?
	Why would you value it absent negative consequences?
	I think if you're looking at something like dishonesty and integrity, if anything, that pertains more to moral absolutism than it does consequentialism.
	Why would it be?
	Because if the partner doesn't find out, then technically that's fine by consequentialism because maybe he got to jack off to a model and keep his relationship going, but I would still say that's wrong.
	So it's okay.
	Even though he's lying to his wife.
	So it's okay to tell a lie if it saves a life?
	What?
	Can you tell a lie if it saves a life?
	I think it depends.
	It depends on the consequences, Farah?
	What?
	No.
	No, it depends on the lie itself and the severity of the lie.
	You know you're pivoting.
	I'm not.
	This is literally to your point.
	I'm testing your logic.
	So my logic is to say I think you're consequentialist.
	I think all the things you just named are consequence-based for negative outcomes.
	No, it's literally not.
	Literally, this is how I can demonstrate it for you.
	Can we moderate a little bit?
	This is how I can demonstrate it.
	I'm more of a free flow kind of.
	Yeah, this is.
	Are you playing solitude?
	This is how I can demonstrate it.
	This is how I can demonstrate it.
	Okay, let's go.
	I know you just want to prattle.
	I'm going to change the topic.
	Wait, okay, here.
	Let's let Farr hug.
	Thank you so much.
	It's not like I gave two hours for this.
	Okay.
	Anyways, as I was saying, it's not consequential.
	I flew too, okay?
	It's not consequentialist because I was literally saying, even if that man who's watching the OF content is lying to his wife, but it improves the status of his relationship because now he's more likely to have sexual intimacy with his wife, but he knows that he's transgressing his wife's sexual boundary.
	I still think that's wrong.
	So that's 100%.
	No, it's not.
	No, it's not because that's increasing the pleasure in his relationship.
	That's moral absolutism, literally, because I'm still saying that's a wrong deed.
	If it was reversed, but if it was reversed.
	If it's reversed, then that completely changes the situation.
	Right now, because the consequence is reversed.
	The consequences are not.
	I'm not too on purpose.
	I literally said, even if it's a net good in terms of pleasure, because maybe his wife is now enjoying him more.
	She's like, wow, my husband's so happy lately and jolly and cheery.
	And he's more happy lately.
	Maybe now he can actually last longer in bed.
	If he's transgressing her boundary, I still think it's wrong to lie about being subscribed to an OF.
	Because I'm, you know, prioritizing honesty, integrity, you know, honoring your vows over a consequentialist.
	Yeah, why?
	Why?
	I think that's the, I think that's the end, the dead end of moral absolutism is I'm valuing honesty and integrity.
	Yeah, why?
	Why?
	Because I think those are good traits.
	I have a question.
	So they're preferences.
	So the entirety of Farah's worldview.
	What are you talking about?
	I'm going to explain.
	Yeah, I just.
	So this is really simple.
	Really, very simple.
	What you say is this.
	You say it bottoms out at moral absolute on truth and on this and on that, things which you prefer.
	On justice, integrity, things that you prefer.
	That is the weirdest evasion I've ever heard in my life.
	No, no, it's not the weirdest evasion because ultimately what he's trying to get to is saying that you are the one who's determining whether it's moral or immoral.
	It's a preference.
	It's not a preference.
	That doesn't make it consequentialist.
	It does in this case because all of the things in which you value seem to be based around the consequences.
	I literally said it's not.
	Even if it improves their relationship and makes it so that they don't get divorced and they have a happier marriage, I still think it's wrong to transgress someone's boundaries.
	Fair enough.
	So then what we could say instead is this.
	Maybe you're right, and it's not that you always value the consequence.
	We would just say that the entirety of Farah's entire moral system comes from her preferences.
	How is that a preference?
	Because you said that moral absolutism bottoms out at truth and at these other values that you have, which you have a preference for.
	Which I think most people have a preference for.
	The legal system, the courts, most moral doctrines.
	Whatever the majority of people think that's what's going on.
	So the most people determine morality then?
	No, I didn't say most people.
	I said specifically the institutions, which we've entrusted our justice and our legal systems with.
	That's nothing to do with most people.
	If anything, that's probably a best thing.
	The majority of people believing that.
	I didn't say majority.
	I literally said it could be a minority, but we can look at the syllogisms of why they've arrived at this conclusion of why they're not.
	Tell me what they are.
	I just love that we've detoured so much because this proves my point that it's not inconsistent for me to do only fans.
	Why is you had to detour like 30 times now?
	Wait, wait.
	Why is it important that she determines the morality of men that she wouldn't consider dating?
	That's what I don't understand about the entire premise of this conversation.
	Why is it the audience?
	Her responsibility to determine the morality of the men that she wouldn't consider dating, consuming the content that they would consume, regardless of how they got it, is a consenting person creating the content.
	She runs her own business.
	She's ethically creating her own content.
	Why is it ethical?
	Because she's consenting to the creation of her content.
	Why is that ethical?
	Because that is less consumption happening of content that people are not consenting to making.
	Yeah, but you just are repeating it, right?
	The consent is what makes it ethical.
	The problem is what I'm trying to do is get to the foundation of why you think things are ethical or unethical.
	That's the point.
	Why do you think things are ethical or unethical?
	Why?
	Based on, I mean, that depends on the conversation.
	No.
	Why do you think things are good or bad?
	I mean, I don't do that off of any religious aspect.
	Usually spiritual and good and usually we do positive and negative.
	It's basically like the do no harm.
	So you think that things are bad if they're harmful.
	And harmful is objective.
	That's your principle.
	Yes.
	Harmful is subjective.
	But for me, I make that determination based on my lived experience.
	Okay, so what you're trying to avoid then, this is the principle we're just trying to get at, which far evaded a million times, is that for you, you're just looking at things through the outlook of you don't want there to be harm cost.
	Correct.
	And then, of course, with any decision in any business, there are risks of harm factor.
	You know, you can be a CEO making $100,000 a year, doing beyond unethical damage to the environment, to the society at large, to several factors, and not using sex to do so.
	So her doing that, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and there is no ethical consumption.
	There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
	Correct.
	There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
	Well, that would mean that capitalism always does harm, right?
	Not always.
	Well, this is not the same.
	And you can't say there can be no ethical consumption and then say, but except for the times there can be.
	Well, they both exist.
	So there are things that can be ethical and things that can't be, but you cannot experience consumption without there being unethical aspects that are outside of our control as an individual.
	And those are immoral.
	Okay.
	Right?
	I mean, dependent, yeah.
	Dependent on what?
	If it causes harm, it's immoral, right?
	Yes.
	I lost what it was.
	Sorry.
	Then every single time somebody does something which is harmful, it's immoral.
	We've established that.
	And you said that there's no chance they can never be ethical consumption ever, not even one case, inside of capitalism.
	That means capitalism is always harmful, right?
	See, you're trying to boil it down to white and black thinking.
	Yeah.
	And that's just not subjective also.
	Are we talking about capitalism?
	Well, it can't be subjective.
	It can't be subjective if you say it's not.
	We could.
	We can talk about it.
	Well, no, but see, look at that.
	It's not subjective.
	Sex work is the commodification of sex.
	That is a part of capitalism.
	That was the point from which I was deriving from.
	What was the point?
	What?
	Sex work is the commodification of sex.
	The commodification aspect is what I was aligning with capitalism and making that statement.
	So then sex work is immoral under capitalism.
	I don't understand that line of logic.
	You just said that it's sex work's a commodification under capitalism.
	And any type of transaction under capitalism is immoral.
	It's not exclusive to capitalism.
	So therefore, sex work is not exclusive to capitalism.
	I didn't say, all I asked you was, so sex work in capitalism is always immoral.
	No.
	So then all things which are commodified and transactions made under capitalism.
	I'm on the side here.
	I don't moralize sex work.
	It's a borrowing.
	So then there are transactions under a capitalist society which are moral.
	Yeah.
	Okay, but then why did you say that there can be no ethical transactions ever under communism or under capitalism?
	No, you said that.
	No, I did not.
	Okay, go ahead and repeat your spiel about communism again.
	Capitalism.
	Capitalism, sorry.
	There can be no what under capitalism.
	Maybe there's a better way of phrasing it.
	But what did you say?
	What did you say?
	The exact phrase, I believe, is there is no ethical, like when you're saying it's a simplified phrase.
	There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
	That is what I said.
	So then OnlyFans under capitalism is unethical.
	Or morally neutral, which you keep forgetting exists.
	But she can't.
	She said all, all transactions under capitalism are unethical.
	All of them, every one of them.
	She didn't say unethical.
	She said no ethical consumption.
	That's the latest.
	Are you consuming OnlyFans?
	Ethical consumption.
	Are you consuming OnlyFans?
	She said it was commodified.
	She said it's commodified.
	So if somebody's consuming OnlyFans, by her logic, it has to be unethical.
	She didn't say unethical.
	She said no ethical consumption.
	It could be morally neutral.
	So then if somebody's consuming OnlyFans, that would be unethical.
	Or ethically neutral.
	It can't be ethically neutral if she says every single time.
	She said no ethical, not unethical.
	Those are two different things.
	Yes.
	So everything under your worldview, then, when it comes to capitalism, is either immoral or morally neutral.
	There's no moral goods?
	I'm sorry, please repeat that question.
	I want to make sure I understood that.
	Under capitalism, can you do anything that is a moral good?
	I mean, yes, because I don't go into the absolute.
	Then now, right, are you still going to make the claim, Farah, now that she said, yes, you can at least do positive things, right?
	She did say that under her ethical system, repeat it again, I just want to make sure I get it right so that I'm not straw man.
	How about the capitalism quote?
	There is no ethical consumption under capital.
	Or no, that's what you said.
	There is no ethical consumption.
	That's what you said the first time.
	And I may have misquoted the phrasing.
	Honestly, I'm dyslexic.
	So honestly, I could have misquoted what I meant to say.
	So, yeah, so that's very plausible, third point.
	Good talk.
	Dating podcast, by the way.
	Right.
	I think we're going around saying our preferences.
	That was about mine.
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	I love going back to that.
	Yeah, so preferences.
	Did you finish?
	Oh, did.
	Oh, well.
	You sure you want to go to finish?
	I would love to have her finish just to be curious not to have someone rebut off of her preference.
	Thank you so much.
	Yeah, I think I pretty much detailed it already.
	I would like someone intelligent, someone who doesn't watch porn, doesn't go to strip clubs, and has super high sexual discipline.
	Well, that's morally.
	Is my turn now?
	Yep.
	Okay, fun.
	I think that I'm probably also looking for someone who's got similar spiritual beliefs as me.
	Which are.
	I'm spiritual.
	I was raised Catholic, but I grew away from religion, just learning a lot of things and experiencing things.
	So someone who wasn't super locked into, she mentioned hyper-religious people here don't love that term.
	I don't mind that.
	But I don't want that either.
	I wouldn't actually.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And you said that you want an athletic guy.
	Do you want a technical person?
	I would like someone who likes to be athletic.
	Yeah, like I mean, ideally, it'd be nicer for them to be.
	I like to wear heels a lot.
	Okay.
	So normally like.
	I'll tell you.
	I'm 5'7, 5'8 if I'm doing runway.
	And so bare minimum height for a guy?
	My first boyfriend was probably 5'7, but after that, it's been like six feet, 5'11, 5'10.
	Okay.
	So would you say bare minimum is like 5'10?
	Ideally, yeah, 5'10 and taller.
	Like when I'm looking, I'm like, okay, yeah, especially on dating sites because there's more to view, and I can be a little bit more specific.
	I'll be like, okay, yeah.
	And you prefer like guys with large pins, it sounded like.
	That was a preference.
	They prefer me, but yeah, I'm not sure.
	They prefer you.
	Okay.
	All right.
	There's like a mutual understanding.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	For me, I think I would like want someone that.
	Because I don't go out.
	Like, I don't go out to clubs.
	That's not like my thing.
	I get like anxious and stuff.
	But I would want someone that would want to go out to the movies or to do arcades or something like that.
	Okay.
	So like dates and stuff.
	Yeah, but also something serious because I know a lot of people, like on dating apps, they say, oh, let's hang out and this and that, but they don't want to hang out.
	They just want to hang out to like sex.
	Yeah, basically.
	And like, I'm not trying to.
	Wait, when's the last time you went to the club?
	I don't go.
	Oh, you don't go at all?
	Like, the last time I went was a couple months ago, but that's because my friend invited me.
	But I don't usually go out like it's not my area.
	Madison, I guess.
	My preferences are someone who is very committed, honest, loyal, in a relationship.
	I feel like they have all my attention, so I want to have their attention as well.
	And I don't really like when people cheat, doesn't mean my preference is for you not to cheat.
	Doesn't mean I'm going to contribute to cheating as well.
	But yeah.
	I prefer a cute face, nice waist to hip ratio.
	Emotionally stable.
	I can't do the highly neurotic women.
	They're crazy.
	I like this sweet, innocent, introverted types.
	High in conscientiousness.
	I like a dutiful woman.
	Okay.
	Mason.
	Yeah.
	So she has to be Christian.
	And not just by name.
	They actually have to live that out.
	And what that looks like is she has to subscribe to what the Bible says.
	Is that a Chino?
	Huh?
	A Chino?
	A Chino.
	Like a rhino, but Christian in name only.
	You're not like Republican in name.
	Yeah, I got you.
	I got you.
	Yeah.
	I mean, a lot of people will claim Christ, but not live like it.
	Yeah.
	So I think there will be, as Jesus said, there will be many on that day that say, Lord, Lord, did we not do all these things in your name?
	And he said, depart from me.
	You practice lawlessness.
	And I never knew you.
	But it's somebody who loves the Lord, subscribes to what he says, and practices that.
	So that's got to be there.
	Other than that, she's got to be active.
	She's got to be marriage-minded.
	So not sleeping around.
	I want her to save herself from marriage.
	If she had a past, I can work with that.
	Brian doesn't want me to lower my standards for that.
	Yeah, because I am your eternal wingman, Mason.
	Exactly.
	There's some women who've previously attempted to convince you to date women who might not also be virgins.
	Exactly.
	They might be prostitutes even.
	That was a stretch, I feel like.
	But Mason.
	Brian is my gatekeeper.
	I am.
	Any women out there, you want to get to Mason, you got to come through me.
	Yeah.
	Not like you don't have to sleep with her.
	Yeah, that's the only thing that could come off of it.
	That seems counterproductive.
	That would be just a little counterproductive.
	You know, very counterproductive for Mason.
	But Mason.
	But you, if Mason, if you even come to me, you come to me with a woman who's not a virgin.
	You're going to sabotage it.
	I'm going to clam block.
	All right.
	Or is that?
	I don't know what the term is.
	Oh, boy.
	But yeah, I want her to be like, I want her to desire to be a mother.
	I want to have a large family, so she's got to have a similar desire.
	Some good things.
	I want her to support, not support me financially.
	He said Christian.
	Yeah.
	Would you convert?
	I need someone with a.
	I need somebody that actually has a basis for their moral standards.
	Yeah, sorry, Farr.
	Can't just be a preference you'd be like, exactly.
	There's got to be some basis.
	But yeah, so I want someone to be able to build a home.
	Got to build a home.
	If you can't build a home, what you really got?
	Can't build a house.
	Is it going to be a townhome or a two-story?
	What?
	I want to add a couple things.
	All you do is say big peen, and I didn't get to say anything about intelligence or like if they can apply.
	You said if they could put it down good or something.
	Like, yeah, led by you, but like there's other things to have.
	Yeah, very good.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like a big brain.
	Big brain?
	Yeah, being delicious.
	That's good.
	That's always good.
	All right.
	I mean, you're married, of course, but you know, when before you met your wife, what were you looking for in a partner?
	What's referred to as a unicorn?
	So I was looking for somebody who had.
	Wait, isn't a unicorn a lesbian that's added into a couple?
	Or a virgin, I think.
	I just learned that.
	Or it could be a mythical rare creature.
	Which one do you think I was referring to?
	Why do we have to sexualize my mythical creature, right?
	So anyway.
	I mean, I really didn't know.
	I don't know you.
	Yeah, I get it.
	I get it.
	I just think.
	Yeah.
	Anyway.
	So for me, my preference for a woman was somebody who prioritized duty over herself.
	And that's what the unicorn part is.
	I have in most of my experience with women is that they do not prioritize duty over their own self-interest.
	What is duty?
	Yeah.
	It would be a level of responsibility that you would move towards over whatever your personal preferences were.
	Interesting.
	And you haven't been able to find women who do that?
	I feel like that's us by the way.
	Other than my wife, my wife has always prioritized duty over her own preferences and what it is that she wants.
	And if we were to really get into it, right, like you might disagree with what I'm saying.
	But if you want to get into it, I can explain to you and probably reduce for you how likely in your situation you don't really believe in duty or responsibility, but most of your preferences just revolve around your sense of self and what it is that you want.
	I wouldn't argue with that.
	I'm single, but that's not how I function in a relationship.
	Well, what are your duties in a relationship?
	I guess it would depend on who my man is and what he's expecting.
	I would really like to get to know him and get to know what are the things that make him happy.
	But in general, I really like you were talking about, I really like to cook for my man, like to have him a place that, you know, he likes to come home to, up to be like a space that could lift him up, enlighten him if he's going through a hard time, be that person he can talk to and encourage him, rub him down.
	You know, if he wants breakfast at 3 a.m. and we're tired, I'm still going to do those kinds of things.
	That's what I see.
	And then I guess if he's got any particular things he wants and it's something that's feasible for me, and I love him, I'm going to try to do it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	What about things that he might want you to do that you don't want to do?
	Yeah, we tried fifth and once.
	Yeah.
	Well, no, I'm not talking about sexually.
	I'm not either.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So out in the world.
	So let's assume for a second that he tells you that he wants you to stop talking to your mother because it's causing a serious issue inside of your relationship.
	Yeah.
	And you think that you talking to your mother is not causing a serious relationship or an issue in your relationship.
	Would you defer to him?
	Are we married?
	Yeah.
	I'm deferring to him.
	He's my husband.
	Okay, always?
	It's my husband.
	I mean, hopefully we're at the place where if I am his wife, we have a common understanding of communication.
	We'll respect each other.
	But yeah, I mean, he's the leader of the house.
	Okay.
	And why do you think he's the leader of the house?
	Yeah.
	Oh, hopefully because he's providing and protecting.
	So what if he wasn't providing?
	I wouldn't be in that situation.
	So I can't address that.
	Well, you could be where you're with a man who can provide.
	Okay, but hang on.
	Just hear me out.
	So he's providing for you for a few years, and then he's in a situation where through whatever means he can't provide for you anymore.
	Yes.
	You would not put yourself in that situation?
	No, I mean, I'm already in that.
	Once I'm married, I'm going to do what I can do to keep that together.
	Yeah, okay.
	But what if he couldn't provide for you anymore?
	Okay.
	Would you still stay with him?
	I would not be with a man who doesn't have the motivation to pick up.
	So if, yeah, he fell off for a little bit, I'm going to be right there to pick him up in any way, knowing that it's not going to be like that forever.
	Because at the end of the day, I'm hoping to be able to carry children, and I won't be able to do both provide and carry children.
	Yeah, but what if he's maimed and he can't?
	He's maimed and he can't.
	I guess they will handle that when it happens.
	Yeah, but if he was, if he was maimed and he couldn't, would you prioritize him over you?
	I mean, I would be taking care of him.
	I'd be maimed.
	Sickness on his own.
	Yeah, so he's maimed in a way.
	What I'm saying is that he's maimed in a way where he can no longer provide for you.
	Yeah, that's the man.
	If I love him, like, obviously, I love to the soul, so it wasn't about the physical, which is why he was trying to point out, like, this, but for me, there's more.
	There's more.
	Okay, so you would stay with him even if he couldn't provide for you.
	Yeah, I mean, here's the thing, though.
	I'm going to be honest with you.
	If it was a situation where it changed who he was, and I do mean, I'd mean like sometimes people will go through catastrophic events and who they are as a person completely changes.
	And I feel like there's definitely an amount of time that I would give to help that person.
	But if it eventually came back to something that would destroy me, I've been in situations where I did let it destroy me.
	I hope that I've grown right now to attract someone who wouldn't.
	So your greater duty is to yourself?
	I guess I would depend on the situation.
	Well, in this situation, you just said your greater duty is to you.
	If it was something that was to destroy me, I don't know because I just told you that I've let it destroy me in the past.
	So, I mean, I'd like to think that I've grown out of that, but maybe not.
	But you just got done saying to me, to be perfectly honest with you, if I knew that this was something that was going to destroy me, you're going to exit the situation, right?
	And I also just stated to you that in the past, when I thought that I might have done that, I still let it destroy me.
	So I'm hoping that, yes, I would make that choice.
	But given my past exam, my past history, that's not something that I would do.
	When it destroyed you in the past, did you leave this situation?
	He got another girl pregnant.
	Did you leave this situation?
	I mean, it was after that point, the girl's calling me, and she's, I mean, I didn't have a choice.
	Yeah, all the qualifying.
	I'm just asking if you left the situation, though.
	I didn't have a choice.
	Right.
	So based on the pattern of the thing, your wife would, you leave her, you cheat on her, and she's still going to be like, I'm down.
	I'm saying that your wife's greatest priority as far as her duty goes is obeyance to her husband and taking care of her children and taking care of her family as the priority.
	So your point right now is to prove that I'm not, I would not be duty.
	I would not.
	No, it's not.
	I'm not saying that you wouldn't be dutiful.
	That's not really what my preference here is.
	What I'm saying is that the thing I look for in a woman is somebody who has a greater duty to me than to her.
	That's why I think it's a unicorn.
	I agree.
	I think that the way that you know that is by being shown it, not by asking.
	I don't know what that means.
	What do you mean?
	I think that was pretty self-explanatory.
	The reason why you know that is because she's shown you that she's dutiful.
	You're asking me if I would be dutiful.
	Those are two different things.
	I can sit there and say one thing or the other, but my actions speak for me.
	Okay, that's fair.
	So, I mean, within the confines of the point, though, I guess I'm just trying to kind of flesh out that that's what I'm after is a woman who prioritizes duty over self.
	And to me, there's just almost none of them who do that.
	I feel like a lot of women I know, that is our biggest problem, is we put you guys before ourselves.
	and so it's interesting that you say that and teach their own but that's what i feel like i've encountered a lot with my how are they putting i don't know i I think if you take just divorce statistics and the amount of just cause divorces as opposed to no cause divorces.
	So just like preference, like this person is not making me happy.
	The vast majority of divorces are happening by women because they're just not happy anymore.
	Lack of commitment.
	So it's lack of commitment.
	So it's, I mean, I would say that the evidence suggests otherwise.
	Most women don't want to be in a relationship because they're not happy.
	And they would rather prioritize their happiness over the health and the health and growth of their family.
	But wouldn't their happiness contribute to the happiness of the family?
	Hold on.
	And to speak to his point, you also said earlier, somebody who treats you like a princess.
	That tells you that's what Andrew's referring to.
	What is it?
	Because I didn't specify what that means.
	So what do you mean?
	You didn't, and I wanted to ask you what that meant, but that statement in itself, somebody who treats me like a princess, as opposed to you saying a guy that I want to be a wife for.
	Oh, yeah, that was just a short and sweet thing.
	I didn't get to delve into anything specific.
	Okay, but that's what he's talking about, though, with the dutifulness.
	And then with women talking about themselves, like that statement is a selfish statement.
	It's a self-centric.
	The statement is selfish, but it wasn't neglecting.
	It's like saying like, oh, Black Lives Matter, me, no other matters.
	No other things matter.
	It's like, no, I wasn't stating that I wouldn't treat someone like a king.
	It's just that I would like someone who also treats me like a princess.
	She was making a comparison.
	Wait, what are you doing?
	She's making a comparison.
	She was making a comparison.
	To what?
	She said something about Black Lives Matter.
	You heard BLM and you perked up.
	Yeah.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I thought you were talking about my non-profit organization, big labyrinthia.
	Speaking of, I think I should share my preferences and standards.
	That's a good point, by the way.
	Here.
	And I've written a bunch of notes because I don't want to forget because it's a very long and exhaustive list of all the things that I want.
	So let's see here.
	First off, let's talk about race.
	Any race is fine, but slight preference for Asian women and white women.
	I'm just going to be honest, that's my preference.
	I don't know if you guys play World of Warcraft.
	There's like best in slot.
	Okay, then Brian, I probably shouldn't.
	When you say white women, you mean white-looking women?
	What do you mean?
	That's a good question.
	What's the difference?
	I'm talking like Latina.
	Well, I'm mixed.
	Like Hispanic.
	Like, my skin color is black.
	How do I identify black women and my wife?
	How do you identify?
	Your experience is as a white woman?
	No, my experience is of a black woman, but being raised, I was raised by a white woman, and I also understand that experience and what that is.
	And so I'm also, because I'm literally half, I'm also a white woman.
	Like, I don't have the experience.
	You're throwing your hat into the ring here.
	I mean, I'm just saying, I know people come at me with that because I don't have that experience, but to an extent, I know the experience, but I don't have that myself.
	I don't think he cares about the experience.
	I'm saying it's looks.
	But I'm saying so.
	That's what he looks.
	Primary looks.
	Don't get me wrong.
	He doesn't care about the heritage.
	I'll date a black woman.
	I'll date a Latina woman.
	I'm just saying.
	Slight preference, ever so slight.
	Very small preference.
	Petite, fun size, short women.
	The shorter, the better.
	What size is that?
	5'4?
	That's 12.
	Is that tall?
	It's a bit tall for me.
	That's tall for you.
	Her height is a little bit different.
	But you did say you like little people.
	How tall are you?
	He did say that last season.
	6'1, 6'1-ish.
	Well, you're not supposed to see that.
	Yeah.
	Are you actually serious?
	Yeah, he does.
	I prefer the short women.
	I know what she just said.
	Yeah, what did you say?
	You said you liked little people last season.
	Last session.
	It's not so much that I said you like that.
	Would I get with the dwarf?
	You said a preference.
	I would get with a dwarf.
	I'll get with the dwarf.
	Do you have a preference?
	It's not that preference for dwarves.
	I'm saying I would date a woman who is a dwarf.
	Oh, okay.
	But I'll also date a woman who's got appropriate normal proportions, who's also like 4'5.
	There's like 4'9 women who are just.
	I just like when people say, put this around normal.
	Normal?
	It's their respective surgery.
	Well, no, but there's like, you can be short and considered legally a dwarf for a moment.
	What are they quoting those quotes?
	In general terms.
	I don't know.
	What are you quoting?
	What's that thing that the guy from Back to the Future has?
	Tourette's, I don't know.
	Michael, what's his name?
	Michael J. Fox.
	Michael J. Fox.
	I think that's probably what's going on.
	I probably shouldn't joke about that, but okay.
	Wait, what?
	What?
	Don't worry about it.
	Is it what is okay, never mind?
	So short women, natural body supremacist.
	And obviously I care about hygiene and grooming, but strong preference for no plastic surgery, no makeup, no scents perfumes.
	Yeah.
	You know, I wonder that last part, because I heard you say that the last show.
	Which one?
	The no plastic surgery or anything.
	Is that because you think that that is a sign of vanity?
	Yes.
	Well, there's a few reasons.
	There's a few reasons.
	But you prefer it because of vanity because you don't like the way it looks and feels.
	Well, no, not vanity on his end.
	No, I know.
	But he's looking at it.
	Well, wait, wait, can't we apply your same double standard objection to your double standard here?
	Right, wait, wait.
	No, we can just apply Farah's double standard application here, right?
	He's not attracted to women who get plastic surgery because of vanity.
	He just personally doesn't like the look because it's uncanny.
	Well, no, there's a few reasons.
	He said vanity.
	What are the reasons, Brian?
	Tell us all.
	Oh, man.
	Okay.
	I mean, where do I even begin?
	Don't tell about it.
	It's purely aesthetic.
	So purely aesthetic?
	Wait, what?
	Suddenly you were going to say a long story.
	It's going to be very long.
	I do think that somebody who's inclined to get plastic surgery, that could be proxy for mental illness.
	And I don't really want to date somebody who's mentally ill.
	No offense or anything, but I'd rather...
	Don't know women.
	Is that a thing?
	Did you say no women?
	No women.
	Wait, what?
	Is there actually any correlation between cosmetic surgery and mental health?
	Of course there's correct.
	There is a little bit of a surprise.
	Of course there's correlation.
	Well, because you're essentially suffering from body dysmorphia.
	You're so unsatisfied with your outward-facing physical appearance that you're going to spend tens of thousands of dollars, that you're going to undergo anesthesia, which, granted, I...
	most plastic surgeries occur without any issue.
	However, anytime you go under anesthesia, there is a risk of potential long-term damage or even death.
	So to me, unless a surgery is absolutely medically indicated and necessary, for you to simply go under the knife for purely cosmetic reasons, I think is, to me, would be evidence of body dysmorphia.
	Although I suppose you could argue that you might not be suffering from body dysmorphia, but the woman sees some sort of economic benefit for like, okay, if I get fake.
	Or if I get fake boobs, then that could help me in my career doing OnlyFans or in dating too.
	She might not necessarily have body dysmorphia.
	She just might look at it from like, okay, this might help my odds.
	So you wouldn't date someone with BD even if they didn't get cosmetic surgery.
	Like they just had an ED, but we're all natural and stuff.
	Had a what?
	Eating disorder?
	Like body drugs.
	Yeah, so you wouldn't date someone who has body dysmorphia but is all natural for the same reason because it's mentally ill.
	Would I not like they have body dysmorphia?
	Or they haven't had plastic surgery.
	I suppose it depends the severity of the impact on their day-to-day life.
	I mean, if they have it, but it's not otherwise interfering with their life or with the relationship.
	don't think that that necessarily would be an issue.
	Acted on, I think acted on mental illness by getting the plastic surgery, that would be...
	What about like an acted on ED?
	If this is TOS, you can tell me.
	Eating disorder?
	I think it's fine to talk about that, I would assume.
	I don't know.
	So you mean like bulimia?
	Yeah, is that acted on?
	I mean, I would say that.
	I suppose that would be a red flag.
	Because I feel like there's other things that are lingering in the shadows, typically.
	I mean, so when you're talking about the vanity portion, this was the question I was getting at earlier.
	I was curious about.
	Is it because you think that if they're prioritizing for vanity, that that's a sign that they're not going to prioritize for you?
	In the sense that it's very self-centered.
	I've never thought about it like that, but that's actually a good point.
	I just, I like modest women, and so hyper-focus on one's own appearance to the point that you're going to spend tens of thousands of dollars and undergo dangerous and unnecessary surgery, that's a hyper-focus on one's own appearance.
	It seems like that would be something that would lead them to prioritize maybe themselves over you, right?
	Yeah.
	And just on its own, aside from whether they're prioritizing themselves or me, I just don't find it an attractive personality trait, just vanity.
	I prefer modesty.
	I much more prefer modesty, both in personality and in appearance.
	So I have a question then.
	I'm just out of curiosity.
	So it seems like you seem to deem that more so on the decision than anything.
	So if you met someone and got like semi-intuit, you know, three, six months in, found out they had pretty invasive surgery, but had supernatural results and you had no idea, would that impact your desire to stay in that relationship?
	That's a good question.
	Well, I think I have fake titty vision.
	Well, I mean, is it the boob job that's the issue or like rhinoplasty, jawline, chin implants?
	Yeah.
	Fillers of all kinds.
	I don't like any of it.
	Obviously, though, I would say there are some procedures that are more invasive than others and that tend to change.
	But there are amazing plastic surgeons and new surgeries all the time.
	So is it plastic surgery as the concept or the boob job?
	it's not well it's I think it's everything I wouldn't even say so like when you think about what he's saying right If you take a woman, let's say she was a bad burn victim, okay?
	Right.
	Yeah, she goes and gets you plastic surgery, right?
	The reason he probably wouldn't mind that if like there was a burn on the arm and then, you know, skin grafts and all this and plastic surgery.
	Right.
	Because really it's prioritizing towards the vanity.
	It's like there's something here.
	I don't prefer it.
	It looks fake.
	It is fake, but maybe it's sending off other signals at the same time.
	And that's totally understandable.
	I guess like what I'm just curious about more than anything is if you're so focused on the like mental decision factor, which is valid.
	I think that's really valid.
	But if you're focused on that, then you find out it's something that isn't the boob job or a burn victim or an extremity, but it was just someone who simply was like, I don't like my chin.
	Here's a chin implant, but you can't tell because things like that can appear natural if done expertly.
	Yeah, I mean, again, I think it's the degree.
	One thing that would occur to me is: okay, well, I think both men and women will select partners to some degree based, perhaps to a great degree, based on physical attractiveness.
	So there's a misrepresentation there.
	And obviously, I think one of the reasons, whether this is something that's conscious or subconscious, the way in which we find people attractive, one of the things that's a thought process there is what are our kids going to look like?
	And so, and so if there's some, and I think there's been stories about this of people who've had excessive amounts of plastic surgery.
	In Asia, there was a guy who sued his wife.
	His wife.
	I think there might have been the story that came out that that was a post.
	But it certainly could be the case that the woman's had so much plastic surgery that she's just moving in the world so deceptively that not only is it going to have an impact on your attractiveness to her, but if you're looking to have children with her, because why do we ultimately find physical beauty attractive?
	And I think aside from our own selfish reasons from a physical attractiveness level is we're going to have physically attractive children who will be more capable, who will maneuver through the world perhaps better if they're more physically attractive.
	I definitely can see that, but I guess to go back to my original question, I was just curious, would that be a big potential deal breaker or a diversion in our relationship three to six months in?
	Because that's a very fragile time where there's emotional involvement, but there still can be fallout very frequently from those types of missed signals.
	So would that be either hard deal breaker or a potential deal breaker?
	Well, the most egregious forms, they're probably not going to like that term, but the most egregious forms of plastic surgery, so I would say breast implants, BBL, and lipo.
	Guys, I just saw one on TikTok where this guy got his knees and now he's taller, just throwing that out there.
	I don't think men should be crazy.
	So when you're talking about offspring, like let's say I fall in love with this guy thinking he's six feet tall.
	No, but I get it.
	And then I get your type.
	Wait, what?
	Oh.
	No, but if a woman objected to a man because women are attracted to tall men, they hope that they're just going to be aware of that.
	I don't think that I, I don't know if I would.
	Oh, you would in mind?
	I mean, here's the thing.
	I think men are not.
	I'm not having to marry my kids, so I don't know that I would care.
	I would actually argue, though, that women, like if you found out a guy had, I think plastic surgery is far less accepted in men than it is in women.
	So for example, there's obviously different cosmetic surgeries that men undergo.
	But like the one I could maybe think of is like, what if a guy, and it frankly doesn't look realistic at all, but they get the injections.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Mason, do you know what it's called?
	I don't know what it's called, but it's essentially oil.
	They inject it into your biceps so your arms look bigger.
	There's also the thing.
	Or just implants, not actually implants.
	Yeah, and there's this old, like 20-year-old MTV documentary where this guy was insecure about his calves.
	Yeah, I saw it.
	I saw it.
	I forgot what that show was called.
	I can't remember what it was.
	But I'm sure a lot of women would like clown on that.
	I'm like, you got fucking swimming.
	I don't know that I would clown it.
	I don't know that I would necessarily know when I saw it, but when I saw it, I would be like.
	Yeah.
	But to go back to your point, like the most egregious one, so for me, I think that's, I mean, maybe there's a figure.
	The type of surgery seems to be a factor for you, which makes sense.
	Yeah, I mean, if she's had, like, if she had a deviated septum and got a rhinoplasty, well, first off, that would be medically indicated.
	And that's not even on that table then.
	And that's a fairly, the shift, the shift, even if it's cosmetic rhinoplasty, the actual change in your physical appearance isn't that significant.
	But, like, when it comes to fake tits, BBL, lipo, I think it's probably in the order of BBL being the most invasive.
	That would be...
	What about teeth?
	Everyone's getting their teeth noticed too.
	Yeah.
	I don't like to know.
	That would make me mad.
	I don't know about the knee thing so much, but if I don't know that I didn't have that choice, I would want to know that.
	Don't they have to grind your teeth down?
	Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
	They have different ways of doing it, I believe.
	Are you suggesting braces?
	Oh, wait, what?
	I don't know.
	I guess braces is kind of the same thing, though, but you can't make them white when they're not white.
	Braces is more akin to getting a bone set, right?
	I just don't think I would get in.
	I mean, I don't want to say it's 100% a deal breaker because, I mean, I would have to meet the woman and she's wonderful, but she had fake breasts.
	But I mean, I just think it's there's a lot of fish in the sea, and just somebody who has plastic surgery, it's a sub-optimal dating choice.
	Right.
	It's not 100% a deal breaker, but like generally speaking, I certainly don't gravitate towards women with like BBLs and fake tits.
	Like, I much prefer, like, I'd much prefer a girl who has like an A-cup than like big fake titties.
	So, yeah, that's totally.
	You're right.
	I guess I was just curious because you seemed to be really invested in the mental part of making that decision.
	And that, and like I said, I can see the validity in that.
	I mean, I'm pro, do whatever the hell you want.
	Like, if you want plastic surgery, get it, you know, in terms for me.
	And it wouldn't be too much of a deal breaker.
	Like, if I found out I was dating a man who got like hairline surgery or like the roots, like for me, that wouldn't be a deal breaker either or things like that.
	I just, because I just think if you want to do something to make you feel better or improve yourself, that's your right.
	But it's also your right to choose not to date someone if they did that for whatever reason.
	Well, I think we as men have a duty to because I think both men and women, but more so women, have been sold this lie by advertisers that you ought to look a certain way.
	You need to buy a certain foundation and a certain lip gloss.
	And you need to, you know, get, look like Kim Kardashian.
	You need to have this hourglass figure, whatever.
	I think advertisers have women chasing a aesthetic and a physique that is very costly or just not attainable.
	And I think we as men have a duty to fight back against the corporate greed from the cosmetic industry and the, I suspect, the billion-dollar plastic surgery industry.
	Because we as men are protectors, and I think protection doesn't just mean like some immediate physical threat, but also threats of mind and body.
	Not just immediate, like not just an immediate threat if somebody's trying to mug you, but like, okay, how is the world trying to damage women to the point where they feel compelled to go under anesthesia, get these dangerous and unnecessary and expensive medical procedures for purely aesthetic and cosmetic and vanity reasons?
	So I think we as men have a duty to protect women from.
	Let me ask you something now.
	I'm just curious.
	Yeah, sure.
	Let's say you had a daughter and she was a four.
	A heart.
	She looked like a four?
	Yeah, she was a four.
	And she had really low self-confidence.
	Okay.
	And it was like eating her up.
	And you knew through a series of cosmetic surgery that that would increase her to like a seven or an eight.
	Okay.
	And her confidence would shoot up.
	And she'd be more likely to attract a mate, right?
	Like a good high-status mate.
	With plastic surgery?
	Yeah.
	Well, if it shot her up to a seven or an eight.
	Her mind would still be a four, though.
	Would you recommend that she I don't know.
	There's a lot of women, a lot of women I've met who've had a bunch of work and suddenly they think they're hot shit.
	But let's just say, you know, it shoots her up to a seven or an eight.
	Would you recommend she do it?
	If she came to you and said, well, you know, I have confidence issues, this kind of thing.
	It's not clear to me, though, if because that it would shoot her up to a seven or eight?
	Well, not even that, but like it would fix her confidence.
	Like a girl who's a four, but she has fake titties is still a four.
	Yeah, but she was able to get a system of different types of plastic shoots.
	I don't know.
	Maybe I just have, maybe, maybe I have a different view, but I've asked a lot of men on the show.
	Like, I think most, like, lip filler looks bad.
	Fake tits, I don't know.
	It doesn't look, I don't really like it, whatever.
	I just, I don't know.
	Like, the lipo belly does not, I'd prefer a girl with a little belly fat than lipo belly.
	It looks weird.
	Like, and these girls that, I don't know if there's a procedure to something in the.
	Would you, so you would kind of like tell her stay a four?
	You think?
	Would I or would I tell her that?
	I don't know.
	I would say that's a good idea.
	He's necessarily rating his daughter.
	I would say, first off, I intend to breed with a very attractive, I get it, I get it.
	No, no, no.
	But I would encourage her that there will be a man who will find her beautiful and attractive and sexy the way she is.
	And not to do any of that shit.
	And you don't need to do any of that.
	Yeah, I think that's the right answer.
	And what I would say, what I would say also is, hey, you can make yourself more physically attractive.
	Get in the gym.
	That's what I was about to say.
	Get like a nice, you can get a very attractive body.
	I mean, face, there's not much you can do, but obviously grooming, hygiene, but get in the gym.
	Because you know what's crazy?
	I know you want to come in, Mason.
	I'll just finish this up really quick.
	A lot of women spend so much time on their beauty through like makeup and getting manicures and all this stuff.
	And they spend a lot of money buying makeup and shit.
	And I think you could improve your physical attractiveness orders of magnitude more and probably spend less money by just going to the gym.
	Like you, you guys want to cheat with your beauty.
	You want to cheat and let me just put on the face of makeup.
	No, just like get in the gym.
	You say cheat with beauty as if the gym is the only thing that can make you beautiful.
	Well, the gym is probably the most powerful tool that can make you beautiful.
	Like personally, personally.
	No, no, just so personally.
	Well, just like, so before I started getting really into the gym, I would say I was probably around like I was pretty average, like five and a half, six.
	I mean, I got an okay-looking face.
	I'm an average-looking dude.
	But then when I got in the gym, like, all of a sudden, that just changed.
	Double bicep?
	Can we see?
	Double bicep?
	Hercules, Hercules.
	Byron.
	I just think that.
	Oh, sorry.
	Oh, yeah.
	So, yeah.
	And I think, so with the gym comes, I think something subconscious that happens in someone who sees somebody that goes to the gym.
	But like when I'm sitting in the gym and let's say I'm sitting in this honesty room and I'm like relaxing and I'm sitting next to a guy who's got a physique like you and I look down at his toenail and it looks like haggardly haggard.
	I don't give a F about his body.
	Okay, yeah, it kind of misses the point.
	Well, so we're missing.
	So, okay.
	Well, think about it this way.
	So and not have disgusting toenails.
	That's true, but I'm just saying that's like the only thing that can be done.
	Generally, when.
	So, if we're gonna speak in, like the majority of cases, so someone, a population of people that go to the gym, there is something subconscious that happens in people who see them where like, they're assuming that you can tell someone goes to the gym by looking at them.
	You wouldn't look at me and be like oh, she goes well, okay.
	No, that's true, we wouldn't.
	That's true, but I do so.
	No okay, but so people who, who go to the gym follow a, a well-designed program?
	No no, I didn't think, but absolutely there is something about like should, because I don't right, but it's that's the point you're supposed to be able to tell, because I don't know.
	It's not the way.
	It's the energy.
	You're literally your skin, what the fuck it's the?
	It's your skin.
	It wouldn't be just like your visit, because I see dad boxers, all kinds of different bodies that go to the gym 100.
	I can tell by just like the way you're moving, the way you're carrying yourself, your skin radiate.
	It's not.
	I don't know what any of that shit means.
	Well, that's some of the things that come from the gym as well.
	When you're going to date out of working out, the sweat clears out your, your skin.
	You're going to have more radiance okay well okay, so movement, because you're stretching, this goes.
	This goes exactly into my point.
	So there's something that is hard earned by putting in hard work.
	So when you go to the gym I do go to the gym I get what you're saying exactly.
	When I go to the gym, i'm like, even if their mindset is like in a better place well yeah so obviously yeah, I mean just mindset alone.
	It's like one and a half times more effective than uh drugs, happier people exactly, I agree.
	So the gym provides all of these positive benefits okay so uh yeah, working out.
	So it provides all of these benefits like, just simply cosmetically as well like, and so your attitude, your confidence, you do stuff that is difficult to do, like that that you people perceive that and they see it, and that is something that's hard-earned.
	And there's something subconscious that happens in somebody where, if I was to look at somebody who bought all of their physical attributes, so bbl lipo, those people are in the gym too.
	We see well okay so, so.
	But somebody who's doing that generally is like okay, I want to get this quick, I just want to solve this problem immediately, or they think that's not something they can attain.
	Like some people just are not going to have ass, they're cheating.
	Some people are just not going to have lips.
	You can't work your lips out well, well they're.
	So be happy with your lip, be happy with your small.
	You should be happy with your body and just trying to be healthy.
	It always kind of moves towards anytime we're talking these generalities kind of moves towards an extreme, towards the outlier.
	It's always a move towards the outlier.
	It's like in so the general population to not kind of engage with what's being said.
	It's like obviously, the spirit of what's being said is, if you go to the gym, for most people it's going to improve your appearance.
	I don't think anybody's going to disagree with that right yeah, because even if it's not necessarily about weight loss, you know muscle, muscle distribution, like your ability more active, like there are other factors.
	Um, I think a healthy way of looking at going to the gym is just about consistent yeah, consistent maintenance.
	Like yeah, I mean, maybe if you have goals for weight loss great, then that's what you should do.
	Also, another thing with the whole plastic surgery thing is like, if this is going to be a long-term Partner, and if she's expecting you to provide, like, this is going to be a much higher maintenance woman than a woman who is not particularly vain.
	The upkeep on her is going to be much higher, for example.
	My understanding, when it comes to breast implants, for example, you're going to need those replaced, I think, at minimum, two or three times in your lifetime.
	So, that's you're going to need you to get.
	Aren't you the 50-50 guy?
	Huh?
	Don't you go 50-50 on dates?
	Well, that chick is not going on a date with you, Brian.
	What are you talking about?
	Anyways, like, she's just not going to go on a date with you, anyways.
	You don't have to worry about her maintenance because she's already going to know from date number one.
	I'm fine with 50-50, but I'm also fine.
	She's not going to be, not if she's got to get breast implants every five years.
	She's going to look for someone who's going to pay for everything.
	Which is precisely why I would, even if, but even if I was, let's say I was inclined, and I do think I actually am okay.
	Like, I would be okay with a stay-at-home wife, but I would also be okay if she wanted to work, and I would be okay with that.
	However, shit, sorry, I lost my train of thought.
	So, oh, she would be high maintenance, right?
	So, okay, so what's the cost of a, you know, you need to get the breast redone.
	Okay, that's $10,000 a pop.
	And then she's going to want other shit.
	She's going to want, like, I don't give a fuck.
	You know, like for me, for a girl, you don't need fake nails.
	You don't need to wear makeup.
	You don't need any plastic surgery.
	You don't need to wear perfume.
	You don't need like nothing.
	Do not give a fuck.
	I don't like perfume.
	What is that about?
	I kind of like, I don't like the scent.
	It can be overpowering later.
	Pheromones are more attractive.
	No, it's just I don't like it.
	First off.
	So you're going to have pheromones or perfume.
	So what do you mean, no?
	Wait, what?
	Pheromones are like your natural body smell.
	I don't even...
	No, he's not talking about things like women wearing deodorant, things like that.
	Deodorant's mother.
	He's talking about like hormusk.
	You know what I mean?
	No, what is hormus?
	Hormusk.
	I just don't like perfume.
	So you're walking through.
	This happens at restaurants.
	I'm not talking perfume.
	Yeah, yeah, I got you.
	You'll be walking through a restaurant.
	Everyone didn't want to be.
	You're just put off by the strong smell.
	Some chick will walk in my hand and be like, oh, allergies.
	So she's instantly hormonal.
	I have allergies.
	It tends to linger.
	That's hormus.
	I don't like the smell.
	That's hormus.
	Because she's a woman and she's got a smell.
	No, don't worry about it.
	No, it's the perfume.
	There's a specific perfume.
	They're saying that if they put like too much power.
	He's saying at all.
	He don't want it.
	No, I don't want any perfume.
	Look, obviously, grooming, hygiene, very important.
	Deodorant's fine, but I do not like, I don't like perfume.
	Let's talk a little bit about, let's talk a little bit about personality traits, though.
	I've talked a lot about physical.
	So let's see.
	I like women with, well, this is kind of physical.
	Women with nice voices.
	I like women with soft, pleasant, soft, pleasant voices.
	Let's see.
	Oh, personality.
	Okay.
	I would say moderate preference for introverted women.
	Quiet, calm, soft-spoken, a little bit shy, a little bit nerdy.
	Modesty is huge.
	I don't like women with like big, big egos who are super vain, divas.
	Got to be the main character.
	What's that?
	Got to be the main character.
	Me?
	No, I'm saying, like, women who want to be the main main character syndrome.
	Brings me peace, doesn't quarrel, doesn't party, doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't go to bars or clubs, low body count, no current or past promiscuity.
	Undivided romantic and sexual attention, the earlier the better.
	For some reason, I wrote down has a praise came.
	Isn't that a mark of promiscuity, though?
	Wait, what is it?
	If they give you the undivided sexual attention and they do it quickly.
	No, I meant well, undivided.
	So it's not so much the rapidity with which they give it, but when I say undivided romantic and sexual attention, that's more so pointing towards they're not giving it to other guys.
	Anybody but him the first time?
	Immediately.
	He's a unicorn basically.
	Even if I haven't met her.
	So it's like the assumption is that most women will give their attention to multiple guys.
	He just wants a girl that will give it to like one at a time.
	Yes, essentially.
	Yes.
	But if she sleeps with you early on, isn't that a good signal?
	It could.
	Like if you had to guess.
	If you had to guess.
	No, you're a bitch, man.
	I don't actually think.
	I actually don't think the quickness with which a woman sleeps with you necessarily is an indication of promiscuity.
	Yeah, I get it necessarily, but if you had to bet.
	But in the general population.
	Comparing, say, a woman who sleeps with you on the first date versus a woman who does it by the second, even does it by the second?
	Yeah, even if they do it by the second.
	Like if you were to bet about, if you were to take bets on the women who won't sleep with a man over an elongated period of time versus those who jump right into bed with him very quickly, if you had to bet on the promiscuity, you would say that it's a good idea.
	Yes, it would definitely be more likely.
	It would be more likely, but yeah, you know.
	Let's see, what else?
	We're still doing your preferences?
	Yeah, yeah, so it is a long way.
	Let's see.
	Oh, a girl who helps me in my mission, a girl who's attentive, a girl who scratches my back.
	Are you advertising right now?
	Is this related to the press?
	No, this isn't an extended dating profile.
	He had his written down.
	I'm not that picky though.
	I'm really not that picky.
	We should just have like a spotlight.
	Let me read a couple chats here.
	I got to read a couple chats.
	We have Kranix.
	Salute to the true hero of this podcast, the hardest working and long-suffering, the Chad, the one, the only, the absolute unit of a chair.
	Hi.
	Who's that?
	I'm talking about my chair.
	I did.
	That totally whooshed over.
	Okay, all right.
	All right, Krannix.
	All right.
	We have Stephen.
	Stevens have really good chairs in here.
	Stephen, are they?
	They're okay.
	Stephen Carrera, no such thing as ethical S-work.
	The women and their worldviews caused by indoctrination and brainwashing via the global satanic death cult.
	Okay.
	These women need Jesus.
	Andrew, you are a warrior of truth.
	Christ is king.
	Fortunately, you stepped out here for a sec, but I'll let them know you said that.
	Thank you, Stephen Carrera.
	Save that one.
	And then we have Octo, kind lady, earned your dating preferences themselves based off of the consequences of those actions.
	I guess that's directed at you.
	I can look at the consequences of it without saying that it has to do with morality.
	Like, you could be a consequentialist with something outside of ethics.
	You don't even know what I'm talking about.
	Yeah, this is too hard.
	You're changing shirts.
	Big brain for me.
	I don't know.
	He'd gotten to three different outfits during their little past.
	All right, we have Goblin here.
	What in the Gorlock?
	Be careful she might eat the whole next.
	What?
	Oh.
	I'm hungry.
	What?
	Are you just playing dumb on Apple?
	What?
	Are you playing Dumb on purpose?
	What do you mean playing Dumb?
	They met hostess.
	wait what like they're not even they're talking about me anyways I'm the hungry one.
	No, don't shoot the messenger.
	This is actually a little bit lost in the head sometimes.
	What the fuck, Madison?
	How are you going to throw me onto the bus like that?
	Oh, okay.
	You're supporting me?
	Wait, lost about what?
	By telling him he's special.
	What?
	I love that.
	Don't shoot the messenger.
	I'm forced to read these things.
	Yes, you are.
	I mean, like I said, I don't engage with people that are related to misunderstanding me.
	Wait, me?
	No, the commenter.
	Oh, my God.
	Sorry.
	I'm like, if all someone's like, like a gross fat person, I have no interest in, like, trying to prove my humanity or, like, prove my existence or my worth because I know my worth.
	So, yeah.
	I mean, you got to read your free super chats.
	They paid you.
	Good job.
	Period.
	Funds the show, right?
	Period.
	I have a bone in my mind.
	I mean, I'd have to care to be a funder.
	Let's read more.
	Is there more?
	I'd have to care to be offended.
	I like it when they leave messages.
	Fuck, I can't find whatever.
	Hey, Andrew, this one came up.
	Andrew, you are a warrior of truth, Christ is King.
	Yeah, King of Kings.
	Boom.
	And Lord of Lords.
	Boom.
	I'm not getting into a contest, dude.
	All right.
	I'm just finishing the Bible verse.
	I've got some questions.
	Wait, what?
	Oh, yeah, we'll do Twitch.
	Guys, go to twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow and a prime sub.
	Hey, Madison, can you thank all of those followers?
	Or sorry, not the follow-up, the prime.
	Thank you for the prime.
	Why are the names so weird?
	Like, how do I know that?
	You got it.
	You got it.
	You got this.
	Like, thank you for the prime.
	Oh, wait, that was a, yeah, that was a tier one.
	Burn your wishes.
	Thank you for the prime.
	Angel of War, thank you for the prime.
	Twist, thank you for the resub.
	Killer, thank you for the resub.
	Premature.
	Whoa, okay.
	Thank you for the prime.
	Jordan, thank you for the prime.
	Shadows.
	Thank you for the tier one.
	Thank you guys.
	Twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow.
	Drop us a prime sub.
	I had a question.
	I want to go around on this.
	Does anybody here have or previously have had a roster?
	Oh, God.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Especially when I was, I had, so I didn't really go to college, but when I was 27, I had like what I would consider my party phase.
	Ah, absolutely.
	Party phase?
	Yeah.
	I went to like different like BBW parties when I lived in Georgia.
	Okay.
	I got some notes on that, I think.
	What's BBW?
	That stands for Big Beautiful Woman.
	It was originally started as a porn category and eventually was co-opted as just like an identifier that fat women, some fat women use.
	I used to, I don't anymore.
	They have parties for that?
	Well, like the cat are them and people who like them.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So you had a roster.
	So what was the size of the roster?
	Depended.
	Into the point where I got, oh, it depended on the situation in the beginning.
	It was a bit longer.
	But like when I was living in Georgia at the time, I had my own party.
	Were you in Atlanta?
	Close.
	I was like North Metro Atlanta, like on the outskirts.
	But I would go down to different events in the Atlanta area all the time.
	But yeah, I was like, it was during my first breakup.
	Like I mentioned, me and my ex, we broke up for nine months.
	That was during 2019.
	And that was like when I first really co-opted, like I mentioned earlier, the get under to get over.
	It didn't work the first time, so I don't know why I tried it again.
	Well, how big was the roster?
	Two guys, three guys, four guys, a couple.
	You said you're by, right?
	So maybe a couple of people.
	Yeah, I mean, that was when I explored my sexuality.
	So I did hook up with a couple girls.
	But five guys?
	I would say, I would probably say it was anywhere between like Madison.
	What do you do?
	I'm just like getting delusional right now.
	I haven't had much to eat today.
	There's whatever cookies over there.
	Thank you.
	There's a way.
	Yeah, I mean, there was a few people, but for me, it was more like situationship.
	But I was just kind of like way too casual.
	But hey, I was like doing stuff that I would never do now.
	I had my moment.
	I learned my learning.
	What was your moment?
	What is your moment?
	Well, so some of the parties were like regular parties, but some of them were swinger parties.
	Okay.
	How was that?
	Fun, but problematic.
	That's the best way to answer it shortly.
	How many, because in my notes here, I think you mentioned BBW poly parties, sex parties.
	How many of these parties would you say you went to?
	Just a couple or like random parts of the world?
	Over the span of six months, when I was in the thick of it, they had basically parties every other weekend.
	Okay, and you would go pretty much.
	For about at least four months, I did.
	Four months.
	I mean, I didn't always do something at the party.
	But you'd go.
	But it would depend on if I had invited people I already knew there or if I met someone whatever happened.
	At these parties, do people typically just like, will they hook up?
	Maybe they don't hook up at all, but if they do hook up, is it with just one person or will they like multiple person?
	Like, for example, you, did you ever hook up with like two dudes in a night or three dudes in a night?
	Yeah.
	More.
	Yeah.
	More.
	There's a specific high number for the most I did in one night, but let's hear it.
	You got this stuff in such a long time.
	You got it.
	I just want to, before I go into this topic, I do want to say this isn't who I currently am.
	Totally fine.
	I'm talking about a password in myself that I would not make these decisions now, but at one night, 10.
	Was that like an intentional goal?
	Like you went in?
	No, it actually was kind of accidental.
	I just like, I was, I was very laissez-faire about life at the time.
	And it was something where I had been like, I felt very repressed.
	And like my first real relationship lasted eight years.
	I had one before that, but it only lasted five months.
	And so when we, or at the time, I'm sorry, it would have been about six, but six years.
	Was that after your eight-year relationship ended?
	In the middle.
	So I had two.
	I had, we broke up for nine months.
	Oh, okay.
	And then when we got back together and we broke up officially, that was like in 2021.
	Okay.
	How does that, well, how does it happen?
	Like, honestly, how does that?
	You just, I'm depressed.
	I'm going to go get involved in the moment.
	I mean, it wasn't.
	I mean, was I self-actualized in the moment about that?
	Not really.
	It was just more like, you know, very repressed childhood.
	Didn't, I never really let myself go crazy.
	And I basically let myself like have my wild fun free because I was in an environment where I kind of felt like I was not only supported, but like really wanted, desired, which I had had experienced, obviously, because I've been in a relationship, but not in like that type of casual way.
	And so I got invited into it by someone.
	And I didn't know what I was getting into.
	It's kind of like it felt good, though, to have that.
	I met people who like I'm still friends with.
	Like I met people who are in their life.
	Most of them have walked away because once you're in it for a little bit, you do like start to really not only see the toxicity around you, but within yourself.
	And it took me going through a couple other things post this experience that made me realize that like I was chasing like a high.
	Like I was using sex in ways that weren't healthy.
	And like it made me self-reflect.
	It made me change.
	If you could go back now, would you do it?
	Would you just do the same thing?
	I've thought about that question a lot.
	And honestly, I think I would because I am the kind of person to live my life with no regrets.
	And I believe that everything I've been through, everything I've done and every decision I've made has led me to where I am at my heart as of today.
	And while I wish I could have done things better and I could have had better results in certain aspects of my life, I love myself and I love who I am.
	And I, I sorry, I'm not laughing at you.
	Okay.
	And I love how I can turn.
	But is it a regret?
	And again, that's one of those things where it's like, yes, and it's like, I don't want to have a lot of people.
	Like, I understand the mindset of that.
	I wish I could have learned lessons in a less reckless way.
	Let's say that.
	I wish I could have learned certain lessons in a less reckless way because I feel like I was reckless.
	I was recklessly digging.
	I was recklessly living.
	I was at that point in my life in that situation.
	That's not how everybody was in those scenes, but that's how I was.
	So you said you would do it again?
	I'm the kind of person where I wouldn't want to go back and change anything about my life because I want to be who I am.
	Well, that's kind of entailed in you would do it again.
	You said you would do it again.
	Yes.
	So how, so I'm just curious because you said you're not that person anymore.
	Yeah.
	So where's the nuance in that?
	She's not saying that she would do it now.
	She's saying the person that she has become today and the reason why she might not choose to do it anymore is because she already had that experience and she decided it's not something she moves forward with.
	And I've learned life lessons from it.
	And that is I've lived my life being the kind of person that has to learn from my own mistakes and learn from doing things.
	And I struggle, I feel like, for things to fully click or land until I've experienced them for myself.
	Do you think it's a healthy process, though, to so I understand the mindset of saying live without regret, right?
	You can't dwell on regrets.
	That's true, right?
	Eventually people have to move forward from things that they've done, this and that.
	Is it also though still healthy to have things that you regret?
	Isn't that how you progress?
	Yes, and that's what I'm saying.
	Because like, I mean, do I regret the recklessness?
	Yes.
	But yeah, I don't like to dwell on them.
	And I try to live on the thing of like, I don't want to hold shame within regret because what I'm trying to say of regret is so negative.
	Like, how can it be something like a lesson learned?
	Like, for instance, I hear what you're saying, and there's definitely things where I'm like, dang, like, that probably wasn't the best choice.
	Or if it presented itself right now, I would definitely choose different.
	But acknowledging that what had happened in the past made me who I am today, made me as strong as I am today, or made me as soft or whatever the positives were, that had to happen to be who I am today.
	So I can, but it probably instead of regret, maybe just respect.
	Respect that it happened.
	So this might be like a difference in worldview too, but I think that regrets are necessary for us to move forward in life.
	And here's what I mean by this.
	Okay.
	I mean that you should look on some of the things you've done in life in a negative way for yourself and negatively view yourself for having done those things.
	And that's the only way to reconcile them to move on from them.
	Yeah, we definitely.
	And I definitely disagree in that.
	But I also, I was raised really, really religious, and I know that that's part of the religious standpoint is that, you know, sins and.
	Well, it's actually kind of, but there is absolution, right?
	But absolution comes with the confrontation that the thing you did was wrong and it should never be repeated and you know it was wrong.
	That's where absolutely.
	For sure, but acknowledging something is wrong and regret are not necessarily the same thing.
	How do you know what's wrong with it if you don't regret it?
	You can look at the outcome of it.
	You can look at the intention of what your action was.
	I'm a type of person who believes in positive, negative.
	And so I'll look at more of the intention of it and lesson learned is still going to happen.
	But I don't need to look at it necessarily as a negative to make it be something that I learned.
	But that feels like it's just a way to avoid responsibility.
	You say avoid, but I still learn from that.
	Yeah, but it's still by saying like there's no real, this is negative, but I don't regret it.
	This is negative, but it wasn't bad.
	This is negative.
	No one said it wasn't bad.
	Well, bad's a moral claim.
	So that's why I said the word bad.
	So I'll try to use a different word.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	But what you're saying is, I don't regret this thing.
	There was a negative outcome, and so I'll avoid it in the future, but there's no regret.
	What I'm saying is that that would, from my perspective, stimulate the growth.
	So the way that you grow as a person is to actually focus on the things that you have done which are incorrect.
	That could be better.
	Otherwise, you can't actually repent for those things in order to move forward anymore.
	There's something to be said about the fact that we're still humans and this is a human experience.
	We're growing and we're learning.
	Yeah.
	So there's going to be, right, so there's going to be an amount of, yeah, you're going to make a mistake.
	For me personally, if I harbor regret, I'm living in the past.
	I'm living, living in the present.
	And me living in the past gives me anxiety.
	It doesn't allow me to do that.
	But it's supposed to be a little bit different.
	So I think what has to happen is you have to come to the position where I regret that decision.
	I'm doing that moral, or I'm just doing that battle within myself, like sussing out what was good about the situation, what was bad.
	But then after you do all of that work, then you can move on.
	But when someone asks you about that point in your life where you made that regretful decision, you can discuss with them, this is what I sussed out.
	This is how I worked through it.
	And this is how it has led me to where I am right now.
	For me, I think about the word regret.
	I think about something.
	But when I think about the word regret, I think about something where I wish this didn't happen.
	That's what I was trying to say.
	And the problem is, is that when I say I wish this didn't happen, I don't acknowledge of what I learned from it.
	Yeah, but if you, if you, no, it's not an I wish this didn't happen.
	It's an acknowledgement.
	That's what regret would be.
	I did this.
	That's my understanding of water.
	Yeah, me too.
	That's my understanding of regrets.
	I think it's wrong.
	That's why I regret it.
	Well, I also don't believe in wrong.
	I believe in positive energy.
	And that's what I said, right?
	So for me, from my perspective, it looks like a way to avoid responsibility by saying I didn't do anything wrong.
	Not, no, no, absolutely not.
	I think that...
	But then what you just said, you only believe in positive...
	It wasn't about doing something wrong, right?
	It's like, okay, so let's say, for instance, something I called a regret in my past was I had this big crush on this guy when I was in Mexico on a vacation, and we're under the waterfall and I could have kissed him and I didn't.
	And I look back and like, I regret that I didn't just make that move.
	I was scared.
	I regret.
	And what I took from that is, okay, when I have a moment that I want to do better, I will make that jump.
	I will not be scared and I will have the confidence to do it.
	And I told myself I don't ever want to have regret again because it doesn't feel good to have that sort of thing.
	And so I would look at it instead as like, okay, that was a moment that I wasn't at this level.
	I had to learn to become this level and now I am who I am today.
	Yeah, so I think we're talking, like, if you're talking about a level of regret, it could be scalable.
	So there could be things that you can do.
	Yes.
	So there could be things that I regret, like maybe I die and say, I regret not climbing Mount Everest, right?
	Yeah.
	But I think that the things that stick in our brain for the things that we regret the most generally coexist with things that we knew we were doing in the time, which was wrong.
	You know what I mean?
	And those tend to be the things that we actually dwell on.
	And that's again of those.
	In my mind, like when I'm trying to think back, like you're all right, because you only believe in positive and negatives.
	Yeah.
	So that's why.
	When I think about something like, oh, like I said, I shouldn't have done something better.
	I shouldn't have said this or done this.
	I think, okay, well, you were in a place where clearly you didn't know or you didn't make that assessment.
	Now you do know.
	All you can do forward now is make it better.
	Now, if you don't make it better, then you're not choosing to be living in your most positive aspect.
	And that will be something we won't necessarily agree on there.
	But I want to live at my highest vibrational level, which means that I'm going to be positive to people.
	The energy they put out, I'm going to expect to receive, which means that genuinely I'm going to not try to do bad things onto others because I know that's going to come back to me tenfold.
	I need to move on just so I can get through my notes here.
	But let's see.
	We had, well, I do want to come back really quick to the whole BBW poly party sex party thing.
	Of course we do.
	So tell us, I mean, there's a lot of people.
	I mean, I'm not really one to get super salacious on the internet about specifics.
	Shoot.
	But he wants an invite, I think.
	Oh, yeah.
	I think that's what I'm saying.
	I'm sorry.
	He definitely seems to be the type of BBW.
	Just the party.
	Just the sex party part.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I mean, they have them for all types, all types of people.
	I would actually never go to a sex party.
	There's a lot of people.
	No matter how attractive the women were, that's party just for you, just all Asian Petit women with no.
	Oh, just for me.
	I mean, I can get behind that one.
	But at that point, that's just an orgy.
	I can get behind that, but like, if it's like swingers and like.
	You don't want anybody to watch you.
	No.
	I get all the women to myself.
	Yeah, sure, I'll take that.
	Never, never going to happen, but I'll gladly take it.
	Okay, so you would, you went to a bunch of these parties over the course of a couple months.
	Now, when you said you did 10 in a night, would it be like was it group sex or would it be like one after the other?
	And it was like individual sex.
	Okay.
	Good times.
	Good times.
	In a very like rapid physical way, yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And let's see.
	Well, the original question was a roster thing.
	So we're going around the table.
	Do you have or have you ever, excuse me?
	Do you currently have or have you ever had a roster?
	No, I'm like disgustingly monoamorous.
	I get like tunnel vision on the first day and I'll like delete dating apps if I like someone.
	Okay.
	So annoying.
	I am similar and I'm trying to annoying that I do that as well.
	Oh, oh.
	Like I hyper-focus, like I'll tunnel vision someone, which I've actually had to get out of doing because dating conversation.
	Oh, sorry.
	They just say you shouldn't do that.
	So I've been trying not to.
	Roster, roster, roster.
	I tend not to have a roster now.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	No.
	Please speak into the mic if you can.
	Nope.
	And the guys don't need to answer.
	I don't handle that right now.
	Of course.
	So is that across the board?
	Yes.
	Is that what that is?
	Well, and I will say, I definitely don't feel like my future/slash current goals are not roster-based.
	In fact, the people that I've had situationally, they've fizzled out because I've kind of just, I'm just not interested in that anymore.
	I'm looking for a completely different dating experience.
	That's just like where I was once at.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And let me get into some of my notes here finally.
	So let's see.
	Okay.
	You said you had some insane stories to tell us, Rosie.
	Is this related to the BBW sex swinger groups?
	Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, like with the group sex and stuff.
	Like, Nick, could you close that door?
	But I.
	The rest of the world doesn't need to hear this.
	More or less.
	I mean, it seems like the audience here is pretty not interested in hearing about those types of things.
	They might be.
	No, this audience is not.
	They might be going to be.
	Because the door was open.
	No, no, it's just getting cold.
	That's why.
	It's cold.
	The young children outside.
	Yeah, the young children outside don't need to hear this.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Yeah.
	Well, I just think that I'm trying to think, because I probably should have thought this more thoroughly.
	Because I was thinking about, like, I mentioned some of those different dating experiences.
	But, like, I mean, I met people who I like during that time, the closest thing I had to a relationship because I was like extremely emotionally unavailable was someone that I met through what they called like the vanilla parties, which were like the non-sex parties.
	And he ended up like going to them and stuff.
	And we would hook up probably like, you know, a few times a week, I'd say.
	And like once he and I became more of a thing, I like backed down to the parties and then some stuff started coming up.
	And I started really understanding like the dynamics of the parties and like how kind of predatory and weird they were set up.
	And I started waking up to like basically realizing what I was doing because I was, at the time I was living my life on autopilot and I was just kind of like, yeah, yeah, whatever, like nothing matters type attitude towards everything.
	So once I started like thinking things through and then I was like slowly backing out of the parties and then something like major like personally in my life happened that had me completely back out of it.
	Okay.
	You said in your notes here that you're currently celibate by choice while on your healing journey.
	You're no longer casually dating.
	How long have you been celibate for?
	So the last time I hooked up with someone was in February.
	Or no, I'm sorry.
	No, that's wrong.
	Since June.
	But that was kind of like a return thing with you recycled?
	It was like going back to somebody.
	It wasn't like a new dating experience.
	It wasn't a new body.
	You recycled the body.
	Sure, if you want to use that kind of language.
	Recycling.
	That's what it's called, recycling.
	If you don't want to add to your recognition, you don't start doing it again after you've already done it once with them.
	It's like you're recycling a body.
	Okay, all right.
	No, you don't, you object to that?
	It's just such a deranged way of looking at, like, human relationships.
	Well, I mean, that's...
	They're talking purely sex.
	Like, it's illegal.
	But you're so obsessed with the quantity, you'd rather just say recycle a body.
	Like, it's just.
	That's the terminology.
	That's the terms people don't fucking voluntarily.
	Wait, what?
	Like, that's just like not like people who normally date and see each other aren't using these terms.
	It's very like dehumanized.
	I've never used it.
	It's not dehumanizing.
	It's like you're studying romance from afar from like an incel community.
	Oh, yeah.
	So it's all insults.
	How dare they?
	How dare.
	Well, how dare people use something that's obviously triggered by that word.
	This is actually a terminal.
	But stop.
	They're haypicking for him or something.
	Let me talk, please.
	This is a term I've actually heard originating from women.
	Women use this term.
	Oh, I'm recycling a body so it adds to my body.
	It's like the pressure of this obsession to always have a low body count.
	So I've heard women say too, like, I'm recycling bodies, so my body count doesn't.
	You've heard it from women too.
	So why are you saying that it's like, it's like this incel community?
	It's like from men.
	I mean, women insults exist.
	No, I'm not sure.
	That's not true.
	I disagree.
	I don't think a woman can be an incel.
	Why is that?
	Like, genuinely, I'm curious.
	Because men will do anything with two legs.
	Because if any woman was so inclined to get laid, she could, regardless of her personality, regardless of her level of physical attractiveness.
	I would definitely call that.
	I guess I think I would agree with that.
	There's no...
	It's the belief system.
	Well, for example, there was a Reddit community dedicated to femme, women who considered themselves involuntarily celibate, and it was bombarded with men who were propositioning these women with sex.
	The reverse is not the case.
	There's not just women flocking to incel communities to fucking.
	If there was a male version of you, he's not having sex at sex parties and having sex with people back in June.
	It's not going to happen.
	You think at sex parties, why would you disagree with me?
	He's going to go to the same sex party.
	I would say, well, what I would argue, though, is that a man who's obese is going to struggle far more when it comes to purely getting sex than a woman who's obese.
	That's the point, yeah.
	Well, you're not really an insulin.
	You can go to Nevada and book a prostitute if you want to.
	Well, but that would still be involuntarily because in that case, prostitution doesn't matter.
	He's talking about.
	Yeah, he's talking about sex between two consenting adults absent money where you're not paying them for it.
	That's the point.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Because in that case, it's like, oh, well, I mean, you could just go buy a prostitute.
	The difference of what we want is different too.
	Like, women want the money.
	I mean, we'll be okay with having money.
	And men, like, the drive is also very different.
	Just in general.
	You mean the sex drive?
	Yeah, like, for instance, like, a man doesn't necessarily, like, a man would pay for sex, but a woman won't necessarily have to pay for sex.
	But there's other things that we might do that will have to, like, that will work for intimacy.
	Exactly.
	That may not be the point.
	Like, when we talk about incels, like, they could book a prostitute, but typically, like you were saying, they're looking for someone who's like enthusiastically consenting to it.
	So typically, they're not just looking for sex because they could go to a hooker.
	They're looking for some level of intimacy.
	So, analogously, fem cells, yes, they could be propositioned by those guys on the Reddit, but they're looking for someone who actually cares about them and they're not going to be aware of that.
	But comparing them all, this is also a bad presupposition for a different reason.
	Another reason this is a bad presupposition is they may not be going to a hooker not because they don't want to or they don't just want sex, but because they may have religious convictions or other values which conflict with doing something like that.
	So, if they have that strong of a religious conviction, they shouldn't be so hell-bent on being an incel.
	Almost done, calm down, calm down, Farah, before you start Sperg talking and turbo talking.
	Let me just finish the point.
	Everything I'm saying is sound.
	Yeah, that's nice.
	It'll be just as sound when I'm done.
	Maybe let's just, we just got to avoid these ideas.
	I'm sorry, I have to moderate myself.
	Anyway, just chill out.
	I'm almost at that.
	Chill out.
	Chill out, Farah.
	Yeah, chill out.
	I'm almost at that.
	When they say calm down, yeah.
	So I didn't say calm down.
	You calm down.
	So anyway, what I was getting at here was just to say there could be other convictions.
	There could be other convictions which are here that they adhere to.
	Now, most popularly, what I see online with people referred to as incels is that their standards are extremely high because they have those religious convictions.
	They can't find a woman who can meet those standards.
	Why would they go buy a prostitute if their religious convictions prevent them from doing it?
	You have to voluntarily still be an incel because he can't find a woman who matches his values.
	That's literally voluntary.
	That's voluntary.
	That's like me saying I'm an incel because I can't find a guy who's six foot, makes a million dollars a year and wants to date me.
	That's ridiculous.
	When you're talking about somebody who is incelibent by choice, would you say then, right, or I'm sorry, celibate by choice.
	If you're just talking, anybody who can just go have sex with anybody, right?
	You can go get a prostitute or this type of thing, okay?
	Obviously, a person who's going to have sex with another person is going to go for their preferences, right?
	Isn't that generally what they're going to do?
	They're going to be happy to choose if they're not going to be able to do it.
	Yes.
	And like we're saying, there's two different metrics for male and female preferences, but suddenly you're now using the default as the male preference.
	So even if he doesn't want to fuck a girl because she's assuming his values, why is that different than me saying, even though guys are propositioning me on Reddit, they're not the type of guy I'm looking for.
	So therefore, I can still deem myself a femcelle.
	Yeah, I'm assuming it both ways.
	So I assume it on the other way, too, that you believe femcells exist.
	Well, yeah, I'm not.
	I said that you didn't.
	Well, I have a different definition.
	So you think fem cells exist?
	If it's from the religious connotation, yeah.
	Just religious.
	Well, I have a different.
	I'm not from the idea of, yes, I could fuck this guy, but I won't enjoy it.
	I won't be attracted to him.
	It'll feel very good.
	Yeah, I think that all those things could be true, but it would be from a religious standpoint.
	No, but you can have that without being religious.
	Yeah, generally speaking, a religious standpoint.
	I have feelings like that, and I'm not religious.
	So if I'm very unattractive and I can only fuck guys who are like disgusting to me, but that's not for religious reasons that I'm unattracted to them, wouldn't I still be a femcelle by your definition?
	If you were super, like, super ugly, you mean?
	Like, just a super.
	Yeah, I mean, I guess.
	So you think the person's a punch?
	But I'm talking in generalities here.
	So I'm just saying generally, that's what I would fit in that criteria.
	Wait, what's your question?
	So you think the appearance is the majority factor of whether or not someone is an incel?
	Usually for a man, it's more than their appearance.
	Usually it's the inside.
	I think that there could be two categories here.
	Yeah.
	Because there's incels that look just like any one of you guys, and they're feeling like they don't have sex.
	And the reason why is because we're so turned off by their inside and the first thing that comes out of their mouth, we couldn't possibly have them doing anything with them.
	Yeah.
	I'm not clear.
	Well, okay.
	First off, my sense of what an incel is, is it's involuntarily celibate.
	So this is somebody.
	I would argue that, and maybe, Andrew, this is where I disagree.
	If, say, you're a Christian man and you're waiting until marriage, I would consider that to be voluntary.
	Yeah, I have a hard time with that because then Farrow would like, would you apply that to SA?
	So wait a second.
	They're involuntary.
	Why couldn't they just go essay a chick, right?
	They could do that.
	And then they would be involuntarily.
	Why?
	Because sex and essay are not comparable.
	No, but what I'm saying is that if it's not just a barrier based around personalization, right, and preferences, then you're looking at the same thing from the religious to if you were looking at it from the, and the argument against the religious is, well, no, this is voluntary because you could just go get a prostitute.
	It's like, well, no, it's involuntary.
	They want to do it, right?
	But they have a barrier from doing it, just like the lack of the essay portion would be the same thing, a barrier from doing it.
	I genuinely don't think a lion's share of incels are opting out of booking a hooker for religious reasons.
	I'm pretty sure a large number of porn consumers are incels.
	So if they were opting out of sex for religious reasons, they wouldn't be like consuming so much porn.
	Yeah, so you don't think that people who are heavily religious would like to have sex, that they might have those wants to do?
	That's not what involuntary means.
	Yeah, I think, but this is where I'm drawing a distinction with you.
	Because if your argument for, no, that's not involuntary, it means if you say involuntary, they could just go get a sex worker, then why couldn't I just respond by saying, well, if it's involved, why couldn't they just go assault a chick, get the same result?
	How would it be involuntary for you?
	Because if I call someone homeless, I'm saying, yeah, they could squat somewhere technically illegally, but I would still consider them homeless.
	What does that have to do with what I said?
	It's an analogy.
	Yeah, but how's the analogy apply?
	Because doing something unlawfully doesn't now make it sex.
	Well, wait a second.
	Wait, wait, back up.
	What is it then?
	I'm saying if they're an incel person.
	It's just unlawful sex, right?
	My point is, if they're an incel and they're complaining that they just can't get sex, they can book a hooker, but that's typically not what they're doing.
	Yeah, they could also essay a chick.
	They're looking for a level of emotional.
	But this is what I'm saying.
	There's a barrier.
	They're both what you would consider.
	One's a barrier legally, the other one's legal.
	Yeah, but they're both barriers as possible.
	I don't think people are opting out of hookers for religious reasons.
	Why?
	You don't think so?
	No.
	Why?
	Well, maybe some are, but I'm saying an incel who's going to do that.
	An incel who's jumping off the corner every day isn't now drawing the line at prostitution.
	I've now created two different categories of incel for you.
	I'm saying that one, I believe that both of them are involuntarily not.
	I think what the actual incel community, the people on Reddit, were not a person who's a person who's a person.
	I believe that that is a national person who's waiting until marriage to find a goddamn life.
	Have you ever heard of the trad cast who self-ID as incels, for instance?
	The reason that they self-ID as incels is because they say, yeah, sure, we would love to be rolling around and having tons of sex with women, but we don't, right?
	Because we have this ex-belief.
	So would he be an incel if he struggles to find a virgin?
	Like if every single woman at his college has had sex and his standard is he wants to marry another virgin, is he now an incel?
	No, that's voluntarily celibate because you've set a standard for yourself.
	That's kind of interesting.
	I might be getting on board with what you're saying, Andrew.
	Non-examinable God is so naughty there.
	Yeah, well, no, I'm trying to suss this out in my head.
	And I'm thinking about it, like, okay, yeah, so there is a law stating that SA is illegal.
	Right.
	So in the, if I'm looking at a, coming from a biblical framework as a Christian, I determine that the Bible is my foundation for morality and is how, is law in my mind.
	So just the same way that SA is illegal in, I mean, it's illegal in the Bible, but it's illegal in our society.
	It is, to co-opt the verbiage, it is illegal in God's mind, in God's eye, to say to have sex before marriage.
	Right.
	So I actually kind of agree.
	So you can't actually alleviate what you want, even though you want to, because there's this barrier.
	But you're choosing to abide by the barrier.
	Yeah, but you would be doing the same thing with SA.
	That's the point.
	Because it's a choice.
	It's a choice.
	Does it just end at religious convictions?
	Can I say female dating strategy tells me I should only fuck guys who make more than me and because I earn a lot?
	It's hard to find those guys.
	Therefore, I'm a femme cell.
	Well, the religious conviction fast doesn't make your arguments better.
	It doesn't.
	My arguments being correct is that.
	That's my argument.
	What's your argument?
	I bet you can't even repeat it.
	I think I can.
	Do it.
	I was saying, why are you just drawing the Bible to be akin to law?
	But why can't I say my preferences could be akin to law too?
	So suddenly I'm a femme self.
	You could, yeah, yeah.
	Okay, so I'm a fem cell because I can't find a guy who makes more money than me and I'm not.
	I'm saying that you could make two different categories here, right?
	But you would still have to categorize them.
	So is it involuntary?
	I guess what we're really discussing is what do we mean by involuntary?
	You think that it's voluntary, absent barrier, and so do I.
	So I don't know what we're arguing.
	Okay, so far, as far as just real quick, though, if you have SA, that's a, you're going to get a physical repercussion for that.
	You deciding to abide by the Bible, you're not going to get a physical repercussion.
	Yeah, but he believes you would.
	Yeah, that's the point.
	Your belief in actual physical harm happening to you is not the same thing.
	Okay, so you're not going to go to jail.
	God is not going to put you in jail.
	But you could also, let's envision for a second that you knew you could do it and could get away with it and not go to jail.
	Okay?
	It would still be a barrier.
	The absent consent would still be a barrier.
	And so you wouldn't do it.
	The chance of you actually being able to go to jail versus not are two different, very big things.
	Yeah, it has nothing to do with the point.
	How does it not?
	Because what I'm saying is let's remove that for a second, that you would even be able to.
	But you're deciding that the Bible is the top thing that's going to be a bad thing.
	Yes, and you're deciding that the law is the top thing that's preventing you.
	I'm not.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm just saying as far as overall, you can believe in the Bible.
	That's fine.
	But no matter what, Bible or not, you still got to respect the law.
	So you're encompassing the law.
	You don't have to respect the law.
	No, it's always like if you're going to be law-abiding or even just of any laws.
	So your choice is to respect the law.
	But everyone has to be under the law.
	Not everyone has to be under the Bible.
	Yeah, but your choice is to respect both.
	You don't have to respect the law.
	You don't choose to respect the law.
	Nothing stopping it is voluntary stop signing.
	Nothing stopping you from grabbing that mind hitting me in the head.
	The difference is the repercussions at the end of the day are different.
	Yes, there might be that there's you saying that you have a perception of a repercussion distinction, fine.
	We can remove that barrier by saying if we could assume that there was no repercussion for you, would you just start essaying people?
	There is.
	Yeah, but that's not the purpose of explaining this this way.
	The purpose is to show you that even if that barrier was removed, you still wouldn't do it.
	There is a barrier which is there, whether it's religious or it's legal.
	These two barriers still very much exist inside of your mind, which is the preventative measure for doing the action.
	But okay, so if you sexually assault someone, you're then affecting that person's life.
	If you abstain for sex because of a religious belief, you're not affecting someone else's life.
	What if you were to essay?
	What if you were to essay a chick who was in a debated?
	Who was in a coma, who was in a coma and would never know, and it was impossible for her to get pregnant.
	There was a man who was raping a lady in it.
	I think we actually agree.
	Right, he wouldn't co-sign on it.
	No, it was awful.
	Right, that's my whole point.
	No, I think we agree.
	I think we agree.
	I was having a rebuttal to Brian saying that, like, oh, incels exist only for men, but never for women because someone will always fuck you.
	And I was saying, in theory, you could fuck someone as a man, but it's not to these, you know what I mean?
	There's that barrier there.
	So I was saying, even for women, even though some guys with poverty are some credit, you can't be afraid of the creativity.
	I would just say that.
	So here's why I would make the two distinct categories.
	So I think you would agree with this too.
	So in the distinct category one with the men, I think it's much easier for men to be in that one category of incel, right?
	Whereas for women, it's not very, it would actually be difficult to be in that category, which is on the religious end, I would say that it could be equal.
	Okay, what about this?
	What about this?
	So let's say you have a man and a woman, neither are religious.
	They're both physically unattractive.
	Yeah.
	They want to have, they don't care about, they just want to have sex immediately, like that night or whatever, or within a short period of time, say a week.
	I would argue that almost any woman, if she was so inclined, could get sex, whereas it's not clear to me if any man could just go out and immediately get sex.
	I agree.
	I totally agree.
	I agree, but that's typically not what femcell refers to.
	Like, I don't think femcells are actually arguing, I can't fuck anybody.
	They're saying I can't fuck anybody who would care.
	Same way those men, in theory, those incels could fuck each other, but they're not going to be attracted to each other and enjoy it.
	Hold on.
	But if the definition of femcell is a female incel.
	I actually need you to repeat that.
	Do I even hear her?
	No, I didn't.
	She has meth mouth.
	You got to talk slow so I can understand what you're saying.
	The reason I talk so fast is because I keep getting cut off.
	It's not to try and cut you off.
	No, I know.
	I'm just saying in general.
	But anyways, my point was, yes, a femme could get sex from anybody.
	Okay.
	But the point was, men in theory, those incels, they could get sex from each other in theory, but they won't enjoy it.
	Yes, in theory.
	Yeah, he's talking about the opposite sex.
	No, I know, but I'm saying the same way a femcell might not enjoy having sex or even find any little bit of attraction to the guy who's propositioning her on Reddit, those guys won't enjoy having sex with each other.
	So that's why I'm saying it's two different messages.
	That's ridiculous.
	When you said male and female sexuality is incredibly different.
	Do you get what I'm saying?
	so let me just we'll go ahead I'm sorry.
	No, yeah, I was just about to ask.
	So does the act of sex require that there's enjoyment in it?
	I'm saying femcell has a slightly different definition than incel.
	I'm not actually sure.
	Okay, well, it's involuntarily celibate, which means no sex, regardless of how you feel about it, if you enjoy it or not.
	If you're having sex, you're not an incel.
	Right.
	With other people.
	No, because if your goal is to find sex and you are able to find it, that is by definition not celibate.
	Regardless if you enjoy it or not.
	Yes, and like I said, you could find it in Nevada, but obviously we're talking about certain barriers and guys want it from a woman who's maybe enthusiastically consenting and a woman maybe wants it from a guy who isn't just looking at her as a whole.
	So that was my only point.
	So I don't understand why each one of those criticisms couldn't be applied back.
	So you say incels could have it with each other, well, so could femme's.
	Yeah.
	So I don't understand how the criticisms wouldn't be equal.
	It's not equal.
	Do you agree that femcells exist, even though they could in theory fuck someone?
	And the same way an incel could in theory fuck someone.
	Yeah, I would say by this criteria, though, what he's trying to draw is that when he says not exist, right, be the same way that you and I would say something in the commons.
	It doesn't mean there's none who exist at all on planet Earth, but rather if you make the comparison between the amount of male versus female, it's overwhelmingly going to be male versus female when it comes to this.
	You would agree with that in that category.
	I would, but you would also agree that male and females look at sex entirely differently.
	So when someone says I'm a femme, you understand that she's not saying nobody will fuck me.
	She's saying nobody, maybe I'm having difficulty finding someone who will fuck me and actually asking my name.
	So, okay, but if that's the case, then they have just changed the meaning from how we mean it.
	So it doesn't mean anything.
	Yeah, I don't think anyone thinks they have identical definitions.
	Yeah, I know, but from our definition, you would agree we're correct.
	That men have a harder time procuring sex?
	Yes.
	Yeah, and that the incel from our perspective has a way harder time procuring sex.
	Okay, than the femme.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I would agree with that too.
	Okay, but sex to the same bases of attraction, then I would describe it.
	Because it's typical progressive pedantry, and you have to literally kill back all the layers until you get to where you need to be.
	No, it's not.
	It's because we're talking about sex that we're talking about sex they wouldn't be disgusted by.
	And like I said, the guys could, in theory, fuck each other, but they would feel disgusted by that if they're straight.
	And the woman, the femcelle, could in theory fuck some random like Redditor proposer, but she might not enjoy it.
	That was my point, Brian.
	What was there?
	He left, so I had to direct it at you.
	Okay.
	Well, okay, when I think femcell, like I think female incel, because I know there's this definition of femcelle where it's like, well, I'm just not finding the right guy that I want to have sex with.
	And to me, when I think of incel, it's just somebody who wants to have sex, but like, can't.
	There's not all these strings attached to it.
	There's not all these terms.
	The guy doesn't have to be some magical unicorn.
	Like, I'm sure most men who are incels would be happy to have sex with a woman who's even probably below their standards or whatever that might be.
	So all right, okay.
	And I do think when it comes to incels, first off, it's kind of the euphemism treadmill where a word starts to lose its meaning, like Nazi and fascist.
	Oh, yeah.
	Where it just ends up being used as a generic insult rather than a word that has actual meaning.
	I do think incels, a lot of times they get made fun of.
	I actually think they need empathy, understanding, and compassion, not hate and more isolation.
	Because you certainly don't make a scared dog more calm by beating him with a stick.
	And also to your point, you said that it's not because of their physical attractiveness, but because of their personality.
	And perhaps I've seen some incels.
	Well, let me just finish my point.
	Oftentimes there's this idea that these incels are just, certainly there are women hating incels, misogynistic incels, absolutely.
	However, it's not clear to me if misogyny is the cause of their lack of sexual connection because there are plenty of misogynistic men who are highly sexually successful.
	I don't think it has to be that though.
	It could be as simple as like, I don't like myself.
	Oh, I mean, sure, I guess.
	Like, that also is unattractive.
	I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of, like, some of the most toxic women haters there are are probably who act like assholes towards every woman are having it.
	Yeah, I'm saying like there's probably like more than just physical that they're not getting said yes to.
	Like it's not going to be just physical because the way women work, genuinely we fall in love with the inside, even if the outside is important.
	I mean, yeah.
	Okay.
	You can, you can go, for instance, you can go to school with someone or go to be a work at someone who's definitely not your type.
	And you keep seeing them over and over again.
	You see the cute little jokes and then you kind of start seeing them as being cute and funny because their inside made you be like, actually, like I'm actually kind of digging that like weird nose thing he does or his ears are a little big, but I actually kind of like that part about him.
	So we just, we, we work differently in that way.
	And so I would say that it wouldn't have to necessarily be a man who hates a woman, but it could be like, well, he could always be talking bad about himself, or maybe he's level on the spectrum where he doesn't know how to communicate and like talk to people.
	There's many different things that it could be, but I would say that it probably has to do more with the inside than just the out.
	Yeah, I'm actually trying to remember how we got onto that because I think I was asking you about your celibacy and then roster and incels.
	You said that.
	You were like, what's the definition of incels?
	You said recycling bodies.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, great.
	Okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	And you were like, no, no, I don't like that language.
	I don't like it.
	Under the purview of my progressive analysis, I don't feel like that that's how people really analyze this situation.
	That type of shit, right?
	I was saying that.
	That's exactly what it was.
	That's exactly what you did for.
	There was a specific word I was avoiding using, but I was saying that's like kind of a weird way to view romantic relationships.
	How so?
	Oh, God.
	It's just not romantic.
	It's just not romantic.
	I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
	I just thought it was funnier.
	Yeah.
	Like, it's just, it was ironic, yeah.
	It's just a descriptor.
	Yeah, it's not necessarily wrong.
	It's just kind of depersonalized, maybe.
	It was just funny.
	It was amusing how you depersonalize it.
	I think that's it.
	It's not necessarily negative or positive.
	It's just an observation outside or ways actively.
	Yeah.
	Oh, it's a calculator way of viewing it.
	All right.
	All right.
	Good talk.
	All right.
	I have a note here from Kimberly.
	Kimberly, you say, I feel like most men want to be taken care of instead of them taking care of the ladies.
	As far as the guys I've dated, I've always been the one to plan, pay for the dates, or I've put in too much effort and not the same energy in return.
	It's always a what you doing message instead of taking the initiative to plan a date.
	These guys, these guys are just honestly kind of childish.
	You got to raise your standards.
	LOL.
	She's got to raise her standards.
	She's allowing them.
	That's her right there.
	Oh, you got to raise your standards.
	I'm glad you're here.
	I know.
	You guys thought you control that.
	That's why I accept that.
	I haven't been talking to guys recently.
	Wait, so reminder: you're 22, correct?
	Yeah.
	But you said your longest relationship was for two years.
	So your two-year relationship, is that how that two-year relationship looked?
	No.
	That one was, well, it just didn't end well.
	But I don't want to get into that.
	But what I was saying.
	Sorry.
	What I was saying is that that's why I didn't.
	That's why I don't want to talk to guys anymore.
	Your mic?
	Wait, hold on.
	Let me see what's going on here.
	Yeah, your mic's way too shifted.
	It's blocked.
	Your mic, Maddie, your mic is blocking her.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Well, from the past two relationships that I've been in, relationships, one of them, it went well.
	The thing was that when I met him, he was barely coming from a different state and he didn't have much here.
	So I helped him out in the beginning.
	I had my own car and he would use it and stuff.
	But he ended up cheating on me anyways.
	Good times.
	Yeah, he ended up cheating on me.
	And I found out because I went on Facebook.
	Oh.
	And he had posted a picture, and I was going through the likes, and I seen some girl had hearted his picture.
	And so I clicked on her profile, and then I seen a picture of them together on her header.
	So how many of the men that you've recently been dating have been, you've been taking care of them?
	You've been paying because you said most men want to be taken care of and that you've dated men that you're planning dates and you're paying for the dates.
	Yeah.
	And you put in too much effort.
	What?
	And that was my also the last guy I was talking to.
	Basically, when I met him, he was leaving his BM and BM to Maybe.
	Maybe mama.
	I didn't know there was like a acronym for drama because she didn't like me.
	And like, I was like, it's not my fault that he started texting me, you know.
	He had told me that they weren't together and they weren't together.
	So I were paying for keeping a man who like cheats on his girl for you, though.
	No, he wasn't with her.
	No, he wasn't with her when we were talking.
	He wasn't with her.
	But yeah, he would like, he had to come to Ontario.
	And I live in Indio.
	So I would be the one coming and going.
	Can you show your nails again?
	They're fire.
	They're cute.
	How do you wipe?
	Oh, God, okay.
	Wait, do you have to do the mitt method?
	Do you do the mitt?
	That's what I've heard.
	I've never been a long nail girl, but they call it.
	Whoa, wait, hold on.
	Put your hands.
	You should play piano.
	God damn.
	You're not supposed to have long nails to play the piano.
	Yeah.
	I know, but you've got long fingers.
	I don't know.
	I do care.
	You have the piano.
	I have to wipe these old people, but what the fuck?
	Yeah.
	Wait, you do what?
	Caregiving.
	Oh, okay.
	You wipe old people.
	Yeah.
	Like a nurse's aide?
	Yeah, like a babysitter, but for older people.
	Okay, so, all right, so oh, wait, did you answer if you've had, have you roster?
	Did you guys answer that?
	Yeah, we did.
	Did we go around?
	Okay, good.
	Check it out.
	Shitty memory.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So you also wrote that you feel like I'm kind of both a feminist and traditional.
	Yeah, because I feel like if I want to have a job, like I want to work, I want to make my own money, but at the same time, like, I want to be.
	If I find the right guy, I would be, yeah.
	You want to stay home?
	Yeah, if I find the right person.
	But if not, I'm not going to be able to do that.
	So, okay, do you want to get married?
	That's a good question.
	It's because before I would say, yeah.
	But now, I'm just like, I don't think there's going to be.
	You don't think there's a guy who's going to want to marry you?
	No, I just don't think that there's a guy that would because I guess I'm picky.
	You're picky?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You have to find a guy.
	How are you picky?
	Well, like I said in the beginning, I don't like going out to clubs and stuff.
	So I would like to talk about that.
	That's not picky, though.
	I don't think that's picky.
	Really?
	Perception?
	But how else are you picky?
	I'm sure there's more than just that.
	Are we talking looks?
	No, I mean.
	Did we talk about, did you say height thing?
	Did you.
	Did we go around on that?
	I've dated shorter guys than me.
	Well, I've not really dated, but I've went.
	I'm 5'7.
	Okay, did you say you have a?
	I forgot if you mentioned your high preference.
	No, I don't have a high preference.
	Well, I've dated shorter guys than me.
	How are you picky?
	I don't know.
	I just, I guess, I don't know.
	Guys, when I'm with somebody, they just ask them for stuff and they don't.
	Such as what?
	But it's not really picky, huh?
	It's just that.
	I was going to ask you, do you think you're picky or do you just talk about your standards?
	What are your standards?
	Because I think there is a difference.
	Or do you mean that so far you've met guys and there's been something about them that you haven't liked and so you feel like you're picky?
	It's probably that I don't like it, but they don't think it's an issue.
	So that, so they think that I'm picky, but such as what?
	Like, um, when I was with the, when I was talking to this one guy, I would ask him, could he not like be following other girls on Instagram or liking their pictures while we were talking?
	But he was like, oh, my mom said that I have to explore my options.
	I was like, whoa.
	I was like, your mom told you you had to explore your options.
	I was like, okay, that's fine, but maybe I told him not to find me because we'll explore his options.
	I wasn't expecting the mom told me to.
	It was not a moment.
	He literally told me.
	He literally said, my mom said that I have to explore my options.
	Are you guys laughing because you think he made that up?
	Or do you think that's a good idea?
	Of course he made it up.
	No, you're laughing because she probably, she might have, and like he's doing it.
	Like, what is the point of that?
	Well, that holds up the situation.
	Yeah, absurd.
	Yeah.
	It's just funny.
	My mom's there.
	Okay, so you're regardless.
	So I got a semi-related question on that topic for the men at the table.
	Do you guys think that confidence or modesty is a more important trait in your dating life?
	From a woman?
	And I'm genuinely just curious.
	Modesty.
	Modest transfer.
	Modesty.
	Modesty by far.
	I mean, here's one way to perhaps look at this.
	If a girl were to approach me, I don't know it.
	Like, she wanted to hit on me or something.
	Not that that might be the best way to go about things, but oftentimes I think women would prefer a guy to step to them in a really confident manner versus like maybe their eye contact isn't great or they're a little shy or bashful.
	I would say for me though, I would prefer a girl to step to me and she's kind of like a little nervous about it than if she was like pie.
	A little bit of both.
	Well, it's because she shyly walks up to you.
	I'm sure Mason will agree with me on this too.
	So from like the Christian standpoint, we would consider these are it's a neutral trait, confidence, right?
	But we would say that men have it way more than women have it, or at least that something that is push for men to have, right?
	As that sort of trait.
	Socially, I absolutely do.
	Yeah, is that sort of trait?
	So we're not looking for masculine traits in women.
	If we were to say that.
	So wait, are you attributing confidence?
	Almost done.
	Okay.
	I was just, sorry.
	Yes.
	I'm attributing that as a more masculine trait than modesty.
	Okay.
	That's the point, right?
	Okay.
	It's a neutral trait, but it's a more masculine trait than modesty is.
	So if you were to talk to, you know, like priests or you were to talk to clergy or things like this, the things that they have a hard time with men on are things of like matters of pride, matters of that type of thing.
	You know what I mean?
	So we would maybe attribute it more that way too.
	We're not looking for masculine traits in women.
	We're looking for feminine traits in women.
	I guess I just don't like gender those types of traits like from my viewpoint.
	It's a neutral.
	I'm just saying you can look at both traits though and see which one society, you know, that we would attribute towards towards which sex more, right?
	Yeah, that's an interesting perspective.
	Speaking of masculine and feminine, you're attracting feminine men.
	Yeah.
	That checks.
	Wait, do you have a type?
	Like, what's your type?
	White guys?
	No.
	Latino guys?
	Yeah.
	You wouldn't date a white guy?
	I mean.
	Asking for a friend.
	I have it.
	I would, but I never have.
	You've never dated a white guy?
	No, I've really only dated Mexicans.
	But that's because that's like Any black eyes in there?
	go on it's because no i've never dated a black guy No, I've never.
	What about I would?
	Native Americans?
	Any Native Chumash?
	No.
	No Chumash?
	Mexican.
	Mexican.
	Do you have a Catholic upbringing?
	Mm-hmm.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Kind of figured.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Here, we have some notes here.
	I need to.
	Oh, we had a video from you that we've got to react to.
	Oh, well, we already kind of hit it.
	It was the incel topic.
	But, I mean, fuck it.
	Let's just pull it up.
	Let's pull it up because we were just talking about bring the subject back.
	Let's bring it back.
	Nick, if you're able to get that.
	This was posted to be like a funny bit.
	It was meant to be lightheartedly.
	There's already a disclaimer, so I already had a lot of fun.
	No, I'm going to say the reaction wasn't fully that when it got reposted on Red Pill Internet, but that was, it was, I was just like trying to be jokey.
	All right.
	Disclaimer.
	All right, go ahead.
	I'm just saying.
	That's what it was.
	Oh, I've seen this.
	Hello.
	No, that's.
	So, no, because trust me, I have met a mini incel and they all hate the people.
	They even aren't.
	They can pretend they're a lawyer.
	They can pretend they're a therapist.
	They can pretend.
	It's most people that like hate you behind it.
	If you're hiding behind a screen and you have zero followers and it's a hidden profile, I just refer to anyone like that, incel.
	Exactly.
	Like, they can cosplay that in their daytime, but that's who they are at.
	Is that what you're taking your time to do?
	It's beset.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I could never.
	Great, great.
	I love that.
	Anyway, I can see that being a TikTok clip.
	What is an incel?
	And there it is.
	Lee.
	Oh, hello.
	Got my headphones flying off.
	My goodness.
	The drama of it all.
	Okay.
	I very quickly realized I wanted to be with my ex, and we had a lot more in common.
	And I met him online, too.
	It was like on Reddit.
	Okay.
	Actually, my ex, ironically, was like my biggest chipper on the chat of the website, but I didn't know.
	I think she did that cut.
	No, you kid.
	Nick, you skipped way forward.
	Oh, yeah, it's on a different topic.
	Yeah, it's on Etcson stuff.
	The clip starts at 3320.
	You must have skipped forward somehow.
	Yeah, it was at 35.
	That's what you were talking about.
	I was a little confused together at this point.
	I thought it was just a...
	Also, for the video, can you put us in the corner?
	Is there in the corner?
	You said 3420, right?
	No, 33.
	3320.
	What?
	What?
	I don't know why.
	Where did you start?
	The time, it should have been 33.20.
	I didn't touch it.
	Okay, just but it no, but it midway through it skipped forward.
	Go ahead.
	3320?
	Yeah, started at 33.20.
	Beam me up, Scotty.
	I'll put us in the corner.
	Yeah, this one.
	Yeah, that's better.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	What does this mean?
	What does this mean?
	Yeah, so an incel is just like someone who is involuntarily celibate.
	And it just essentially has morphed into its own slang term that kind of describes that loser sitting on Reddit for 23 hours a day with cheetah dust and empty Mountain Dew cans all around them.
	And it just has a real stank smell that is involved with these people.
	I'm just going to paint you an image and like the fedora is a little crusty and the neck beard is strong, but the facial hair is weak.
	And there's a bald spot in the back.
	And you can just see the fedora covering it.
	Dear life.
	And he's sitting there muttering under his breath about how Jessica Alba's ugly.
	Right.
	You know, like, that's what you're talking about.
	Yeah, like bottom of the barrel.
	That was like a really good description.
	Thank you.
	It's like, I just wanted to paint a little word picture for the people at home.
	So, no, because trust me, I have met a mini incel and they all can pretend they're a lawyer.
	They can pretend they're a therapist.
	It's most people that like hate you behind it.
	If you're hiding behind a screen and you have zero followers and it's a hidden profile, I just refer to anyone like that, incel, incel.
	Exactly.
	Like, they can cost by that in their daytime, but that's who they are.
	Is that what you're taking your time to do?
	It's beset.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I could never.
	Great, great.
	I love that.
	I did just want to say this one thing, if you don't mind.
	Right at the end there, you said, I would never.
	What were you referring to?
	I would never behave toward people the way that incels behave toward me.
	Because it sounded like you were saying I would never like, I would never sleep with somebody like that.
	That's what it sounded like to me.
	Oh, no, I wasn't referencing like living with.
	So, I mean, I would not want to date an incel, correct?
	Because the people that have been the way off here, or did that sound like she was like, I would never, like, never the whole thing.
	I would never, like, behave that way.
	That's what I intended.
	The whole encumbrance of her.
	Yeah.
	But, but related to what I already said, this whole euphemism treadmill thing, I mean, even that, I don't know her name, the host of the podcast.
	She said it's Devorah.
	She said it's insulin is just a term for anybody that talks shit online and has no followers.
	Well, she said, What's wrong with fedoras?
	Hello?
	Well, they're all on the bottom.
	It's the meme.
	Like, growing up on the internet.
	I wear it better than anyone, clearly.
	The lady.
	I mean, my bad.
	What's up with the bald spot, though?
	What's wrong with bald spots?
	I mean, look, I get roasted all day every day for existing as a fat woman on the internet.
	Body positivity.
	I mean, I'm more down with body neutrality, but that's just me.
	We shouldn't shame men for balding.
	It's natural.
	Yeah, and does the neckbeard at least connect?
	I think she's clapping back to what they've already said to her.
	She's, this is not like everyone.
	Look at my TikTok comments.
	Look at my YouTube comments.
	I'm allowed to make a joke at their expense once or twice if they dedicate hours of their time to try to tear me down because they can't handle seeing someone like me be confident in myself because it makes them question why they can't be confident within themselves when they fit in the Americanized standards of certain whatever.
	And I am an outlier.
	I'm someone that they wish to be not seen nor heard.
	And I put myself out there and I hold myself to a standard of what I think is a good human being.
	And how I proceed with that.
	Just give you a little pushback here.
	Yes, I can agree with a portion of what she says.
	The first portion of what you said is if these guys are going to continuously make fun of me, right, and this is the group it's coming from, I'm going to hit back.
	Okay, that's fair.
	Okay.
	But then you kind of moved on into this whole, but you see what it is, is that I don't deserve to have any criticism and this is all projection because this is how they really feel, not how I am.
	And it's like, that's when I go.
	Criticism is not calling me Michelin man.
	It's not calling me Gorlock.
	It's not making fun of my body.
	What's not constructive about that?
	Do you think that that encourages encourages healthy behavior when it feeds into the eating disorder mindset?
	The constructive criticism.
	The constructive criticism is not for you.
	The constructive criticism, it's a shaming tactic so that everybody who sees a person like you out there trying to say that it is not constructive.
	It is constructive.
	It's constructive to all of society to say.
	I'm trying to explain anytime you're ready to let me.
	So anyway, how this is really important to society as a shaming tactic, the same way that you might take a politician, if you were the system, for instance, and completely throw him in jail and do all kinds of horrible things to him, make an example to everybody else.
	That's what shame does.
	Hang on.
	A shaming tactic that's used in this way is to say, listen, if anybody else is going to come out and be like you are, right, and say that unapologetically, this is okay, this is good, blah, They're trying to instill a sense of shame so that if other women see that, they don't go that road and instead try to do something about it.
	So you think that my existence is a right to be a political statement toward other people's views of their own body and that I'm to be used.
	You're a public figure.
	That's right.
	You're a public figure who goes out and saying I'm unapologetic, right?
	I've slept with all these guys.
	I mean, that's not my platform.
	I'm a big fan of it.
	That's part of my past.
	But yeah, but part of your platform is the whole big, beautiful, you know, bullshit.
	Not anymore.
	Do you know my platform?
	Do you know my platform at all?
	Do you know my story at all?
	Here's the thing.
	That's what it is, right?
	No, it's not.
	What is it?
	What is your story?
	My platform is that I have lived through a lot of experiences that have led me to be in this body and to be who I am.
	And that I am on a journey of loving myself into my health.
	Yeah, you're loving yourself.
	There's no excuse for that.
	There's no excuse.
	And because there's no excuse for it, that's why you're getting shamed.
	There's no excuse.
	There's no excuse.
	There's no excuse for what, me existing?
	No, for you to look like that.
	What?
	Okay, question.
	Everything you said could be a byproduct, but do you think when a guy is saying Gorlock the Destroyer and when Brian titles this video?
	It's a shame tactic.
	You think he's really doing it to like mitigate obesity?
	It's a shame tactic.
	Oh, it's never going to be a title.
	Do you believe that you're with that?
	Whoa, whoa, why you got to do that?
	That could be my product.
	Why you got to throw me under the bus?
	Because you're the one who titled it that.
	Well, first off, it was only recently changed.
	And did you do that because you were like, I want to mitigate obesity in America?
	Was that your...
	It was for the clicks and the sensationalizing of it.
	Everybody's searching for the...
	Everybody DMs me.
	Brian, where's the Gor.
	Which one's Gorlock episode?
	And I'm like, I get 20 DMs a day.
	Brian, I can't, because it was titled Rage Quake Kiko versus Chase, round two.
	There was not, Ali Alweezy was not in the thumbnail.
	So I just titled it, Gorlock the Destroyer, makes it easier for people to find the video.
	Okay, I made it.
	I tried to make it.
	People are wondering.
	Brian, I get the point.
	Where's the Alweezy video?
	I put in the title so people can find it.
	I'm a nice guy.
	I'm concerned.
	I'm trying to save people time.
	Okay, so it could be a byproduct.
	My question is: do you actually think that people, Andrew, like leaving those comments are doing it with those intentions?
	Or do you think it's like, could you concede there's a little bit of like Shadow Freud in there?
	Yeah, I think that the overwhelming majority, I wouldn't say all.
	I'm not putting everything in a monolithic.
	Like people who comment hippo.
	Trying to finish.
	Okay.
	Okay, so do I think, do I think, yeah, even that comment I think is legitimate.
	Because what's the point?
	The point is to make the comparison to this big, ginormous animal, which you're not, right?
	It's a shaming tactic.
	The whole goal of it is to tell the person, stop the behavior.
	If other people see what you're doing, this is bad.
	We used to have shame in society.
	It was good.
	It's good to be able to do it.
	They did a study.
	I'm so sorry.
	Oh, they did a study.
	What was the methodology in the study?
	It's on, I think it was on Netflix.
	What's the methodology?
	Can I just finish my question?
	No, I just want you to tell me the methodology.
	I'm going to tell you my statement first.
	They did a statement on the students.
	I never even read the study.
	You don't know anything about it.
	Anyways, that humans actually respond better to positive affirmations and positive encouragement rather than possibly.
	What was the methodology for what was positive in the study?
	They were doing like, they did a study of like, it was like 100 humans or whatever.
	Yeah, what was the methodology for what they considered positive in the study?
	They had people up on stage and they like had them do a task.
	And to some of them, they told them they did a really good job.
	And to the next group, they told them they did a really bad job.
	And the next time they had that same group study come in and they encourage them to do one thing.
	And they've done so many of this, where they encourage one and they don't encourage the other.
	And the ones that they haven't encouraged after they bring them back to do the exact same thing, the ones that have been encouraged those past two times excel and the ones that have not do not.
	They have done plenty of studies on that.
	So you're saying you're waiting for humans thrive better from positive from positive encouragement.
	They do.
	Here, I'm going to read some chats.
	I'm going to read some chats.
	All right.
	Andrew and Farha have the highest IQs out of everyone on the show and their philosophy debates are pretty interesting.
	would be cool to see far back on the crucible for another long-form debate did what was the wait hold I'm going to save it for later.
	But what was the big thing that you guys was about rights to do?
	Women's suffrage?
	Oh, was that the women's rights?
	Yeah, women's rights.
	Is that a TOS thing, you think?
	Why are you asking me?
	Why don't you use the money?
	There's nothing in violation of TOS for that.
	Can I make one more point about the conversation we just had?
	I'll keep it really short.
	I'm going to move on right after you said it, so go ahead.
	Okay.
	So do you think that you're saying because they're calling them fat or hippo, the goal is that they can actually change that behavior so it's beneficial?
	But what about the guys who leave certain comments just calling a girl ugly and it's not related to things she can change?
	Like I feel like they stem from the same place, which is why I was saying I feel like the intention tends to just be sadism.
	Yeah, I think there's some of that.
	Okay.
	Cool.
	All right.
	We have Bender the Offender.
	Ladies, do you think mandatory paternity testing would hurt or help women in today's society?
	Do you want to stay for this, just this question and then?
	Can I be?
	I have like three red bulls.
	Okay, I'll give you wings.
	Ladies, do you think mandatory paternity testing would hurt or help women in today's society?
	I don't know.
	I feel like that's such a broad question because I feel like in some ways it could be harmful, but in other ways, I think overall it would be helpful in terms of, you know, child support and knowing it.
	But it's like, that's odd because it's like, what's the circumstance?
	Is it just like for every birth, there's a paternity test?
	Yeah.
	In what ways would that be harmful?
	Yeah, I was going to ask.
	Because like, if like the person is an abuser, someone who's like, you know, doesn't necessarily, they don't want to be tied to the person.
	Well, I mean, if that's that person.
	Yeah, but do you have a right to hide paternity based on the fact that the other person's abusive?
	I mean, I would want to do anything to get out of it.
	Do you think so?
	I do just because if you're abusive to me, what are you going to do with the child?
	Yeah.
	That doesn't, okay.
	Listen, you don't have a right to hide the paternity from a father based upon whatever your analysis is of abuse.
	I've heard things as ridiculous as this.
	Emotionally abusive.
	Which means nothing.
	It means nothing.
	That's crazy.
	No, it's not.
	No, it's not crazy.
	It's not.
	Emotional abuse is nothing.
	Yeah, it means nothing.
	It's not analysis.
	It's not subjective.
	It's subjective.
	Wow.
	That's an interesting question.
	Well, listen, it is subjective.
	Give me an objective standpoint.
	I mean, I don't think that's subjective in the terms of psychology at all.
	Yeah, it is.
	It's most subjective in psychology.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	It's a subjective analysis.
	So like, let me give you an example.
	I can give you a really easy one.
	Okay.
	Let's say that you're going out and you're overspending from my perspective.
	Like, let's say married to a woman.
	I say, listen, you're overspending.
	Okay.
	And you say, well, listen, I really need to spend this because I need X, Y, and Z for the household.
	You think the paper towel holder and this and that is very important.
	Maybe it is.
	Maybe it is important.
	And I think it isn't.
	So I go and I cut off your access to that threshold of money and give you a lesser threshold of money that I think is appropriate and you don't think is appropriate.
	Is that abuse?
	In that specific scenario, there's just like several factors to whether or not something is or isn't financial abuse.
	Because it's subjective.
	That's why.
	And it's predicated on how the woman feels.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Hold on.
	Hold on, hold on.
	Go ahead.
	And it's predicated on how the woman feels about what you say.
	Like a lot of women just don't take kindly to being criticized at all.
	They don't take kindly to a guy.
	Even if a guy gets moderately upset and he raises his tone a little bit, you have women who will consider that emotional abuse.
	That's not a problem.
	I don't.
	I mean, to me, emotional abuse is like verbal, like verbally saying really degrading, horrible things and like a systemic thing over time, a systemic thing over time, excuse me.
	And so, I mean, maybe I didn't initially understand the point you were trying to make with the suggestive, because the subjective sorry, I'm just startering early bad.
	But in terms of emotional abuse being a factor, I think is important, though it is suggestive.
	Subjective.
	Thank you, subjective.
	Even though it is subjective, it is something that, I mean, it had long-standing effects on both parent and child.
	But when my initial point, I was thinking more so abuse of the other aspects, because emotional is impactful, but it's not as dangerous to like the health of the child versus the other ones.
	So let's move into, okay, if you fair enough, you say, okay, when it comes to this, it's subjective, so maybe we wouldn't hide paternity on that.
	But if we move over to physical abuse, let's say, right?
	You think that that's cut and dry.
	Well, what if this guy is convicted of physically abusing the mom?
	Then shouldn't we be able to hide paternity?
	If she says, yeah.
	I still say no, and here's why.
	Because plenty of people get accused of doing domestic violence or doing things like this, and they haven't actually done it.
	And so we're going to yield to the word of the woman in this case and hide the paternity of that man's child for something which could easily be a falsehood.
	That's immoral to the utmost in my worldview.
	Okay, and I see that, but for me, it's like if you're talking about a mandated paternity test, then at that point, that's the government getting involved in between the relationship and the personal affairs of people.
	And I am the kind of person that prefers to step off of unnecessary government.
	Wait, you're a communist.
	You want the government involved in it?
	They lied.
	Literally, every single aspect of the people.
	I felt that I was a communist.
	You did.
	Win.
	I thought earlier, didn't you?
	No, you asked him about capitalism and you said the word communism when that word never left my mouth.
	So, socialism?
	I mean, first, I'm not really here to debate to help help you.
	Okay, I'm just asking this.
	I can't remember.
	Are you a socialist?
	I mean, I consider myself a leftist.
	Okay, yeah.
	You don't care if the government's involved in your life for all kinds of stuff.
	Did you care if the government was involved in my life when there were certain mandates going on around?
	You didn't give a shit.
	But now, suddenly, you care about what mandates can you invest in?
	Hold on.
	I can't get into that.
	But you know what I'm saying?
	Yeah, okay.
	I do now.
	Yes.
	Wait, I have a question.
	You said when it comes to you wouldn't want the government involved with mandatory paternity testing.
	Like over people's autonomy.
	But let me ask you a question.
	Let's say, do you want kids one day?
	No.
	Oh, okay.
	So this is honestly, to me, this is just like a thing that I don't really want to do.
	I mean, that was kind of an asshole move, but let's keep it nice.
	That was a real asshole move.
	Let's keep it nice, guys.
	Let's keep it nice, okay?
	Because some people are smart enough to know what's best for them.
	And for me and my life, I don't want to have children.
	Just let me ask the question, okay?
	But I would, if I wanted to, be a good mother.
	Okay.
	So my question is, though, do you think you said you wouldn't want the government involved when it comes to paternity testing, whatever?
	So are you not in favor of child support?
	Women receiving child support, for example?
	So I believe that whoever has the child should have support from the other partner regardless of their gender.
	I think that if a single father has the full custody of the child, which I believed by, which is enforced by the courts, the state.
	The government.
	But you said you don't want the government involved with mandatory paternity testing.
	So I'm just confused.
	Well, I mean, look, the government has its role.
	All right.
	The government has its role, and I don't.
	I mean, at the end of the day.
	But you do realize that, like, for example, in a child support dispute, that the government would actually require if they're if the man's not a case by case basis, but when you're putting in a mandated paternity test, then that is adding a complicated layer of paperwork and testing.
	No, it's just literally as the, it's, you're already in the hospital.
	You're, it's actually the perfect scenario to married groups.
	Here's my further questions: it's like, does that apply to married couples or couples that are still together?
	Or are we, okay.
	Yeah, everybody.
	Okay.
	Anyways, here, let's just go around the table.
	Do you think mandatory paternity testing would hurt or help women in today's society?
	Would mandatory paternity tests hurt or help women in today's society?
	That's one of the super chat questions.
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	I mean, I don't have any children, but I don't see why it would be a problem.
	Okay, Madison.
	I feel like with the way not all women, but a lot of like a majority of women are moving nowadays, like it, it could be very harmful to their children and the man.
	What would be harmful?
	Paternity testing, like if they found out the child's dad was not the guy that she was with, like that would be breaking their family apart.
	From a mandatory place.
	I mean, I see your point.
	I see your point.
	I don't.
	What about the truth?
	No, I think the truth is great.
	I think.
	Yeah, no, absolutely.
	Everyone should know the truth, but I think it's going to be terrible for the children if the truth is.
	Oh, so you're in favor of favor of the way a lot of women are moving nowadays.
	They're probably like a lot of children aren't going to be having dads anymore.
	So it would be bad for women, but you don't object to paternity testing.
	No, not at all.
	I'm for it.
	So you acknowledge.
	Okay, I see, I see, I see.
	Are you in favor of that, Andrew?
	It sounds like.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, I think that the rates of paternity, which are lied about, is wildly understated.
	Wildly understated.
	And yeah, absolutely.
	I think that if mandatory paternity testing was done, there would be significant problems for women, but the kind of problems that I think they should see, which is responsibility.
	Forever, forever inside of human society, men did not have this.
	We've never had the luxury of being a, we had to always take the word of the woman as to paternity.
	We don't have to do that now, and we absolutely shouldn't do it now.
	And even if it's not mandatory, everybody should get one no matter what, always.
	Period.
	And it's worse.
	And I have a hundred.
	Look, I have what I would consider 100% faith and trust in my wife.
	But I told her, I told her these words exactly.
	You're going to get the fucking test.
	And if not, I'm out the door.
	Period.
	Well, also, that's not emotional abuse.
	Well, there's also emotional abuse.
	Yeah, that was going to be considered emotional abuse.
	Exactly.
	I was not 100% trust and favorite.
	I mean, it's your prognostic to do that.
	Okay, well, it's not for her.
	It's for me.
	Well, it's also, there are also cases where the hospital will jumble up babies.
	No, it's not.
	It's as much trust as I can get.
	It's as much trust as I can get.
	Yeah, because you can't confirm it.
	There's no way for a man to confirm it.
	That's not trust.
	Well, where's the trust back the other way?
	Just being like, okay, yeah, no problem.
	Wait, Andrew.
	If it was ever any resistance.
	That's how that works.
	That's how trust works.
	What is the, like, what's the pitch to, like, how would you say that?
	Because I feel like if I were to say that to a girl, I could see her like my wife or when I'm having kids.
	What could she put?
	What possible argument could a woman have towards asking you to get a paternity test other than it makes her feel bad?
	Because she's unfaithful.
	Or like, you don't trust her.
	Other than it makes her feel bad.
	What could the argument possibly be?
	Give me a single argument other than because it makes me feel bad.
	I want to hear it.
	But why would you want to make her feel bad?
	So that's I feel bad.
	If you're worried that she'd be cheating on you, why would you even want to?
	So that's I feel bad.
	It's I feel bad.
	Clearly we don't have a strong foundation.
	Sorry.
	That's I feel bad.
	No, it's not saying we don't have a strong foundation.
	Why would that matter if it didn't make one of them feel bad?
	Because she could say, like, if you don't have a strong foundation of trust, because she makes her feel further.
	No, she'd feel neutral about it and still be like, oh, so if she's not going to be able to do that.
	So maybe he's going to be, maybe he's going to be constantly.
	If she feels neutral about it, if she feels neutral about it, if she feels neutral about it, who cares?
	I'm going to finish her point.
	Say your point.
	If she feels neutral about it, then who cares?
	I'm saying if you don't have trust in a relationship, typically that will lead to a bad relationship, regardless if the party's in the relationship, feel bad about it or not.
	That was my only point.
	Yeah, but that's the only argument is feel bad.
	No, it's not.
	I literally said it doesn't matter if they feel bad or not.
	You can object and say, clearly we don't have a strong foundation.
	KTA donated $200.
	Love your hair, Maddie.
	GL with your marriage.
	Brian, love the Andrew Marathon.
	Shout out Crucible.
	K thanks.
	Yo, Bo Man, thank you, man.
	I appreciate it.
	Welcome.
	Good to see you back in the chat, man.
	Go ahead, Farah, with your point.
	I completed it.
	Yeah, so the only reason that the trust variable is there is because it would make one feel bad over the other.
	That's it.
	So the only argument you would make for the trust is, you don't trust me, and that—what, Farrah?
	You don't trust me, and that makes me— But it doesn't have to make you feel bad.
	I'm going to— But then why would it matter?
	Why would it matter?
	Because if it's not And why is it a foundation this it's about based maybe you don't care or not You're completely apathetic to whether your wife cheats on you, but maybe you still don't want her to do that, even if you have no emotional reaction to it because you think that creates an unstable foundation for a relationship.
	Even if you're completely apathetic and maybe you're a cuck and you get a bad person.
	But why would you care about the paternity test?
	How would that be an argument if it's just a neutral?
	You were saying, what is an objection to your boyfriend asking you for a paternity test?
	And I'm saying you could say we're missing an important tenant of our relationship, an important pillar that isn't contingent on me feeling good or bad about it.
	That was my only point.
	Then if you don't feel good or bad about it, why would it be an important pillar?
	Same way I told you maybe if your wife's cheating on you, but you don't necessarily care, wouldn't you agree that that could have adverse effects on the relationship, regardless about how you feel about it personally?
	Those would be like the adverse effects that you would be talking about are like her getting pregnant.
	No, not necessarily.
	Her getting even if she was infertile.
	Her giving you V D what is that?
	Venereal disease?
	I don't think those would be your only objections to your wife stepping out of your life.
	Like how that makes you feel, then I don't understand the objective.
	I mean, you're religious.
	From your Christian point of view, you could probably outline a plethora of reasons for why you wouldn't want your girlfriend or wife to be sleeping with other people other than it makes you feel bad.
	You'd probably think it has adverse effects.
	Yes, that's true.
	I could appeal to an objective standard, yes.
	Yes, and most people in relationships.
	What objective standard are you appealing to?
	Usually the tenets of trust in a relationship.
	That's not an objective standard.
	It's a subjective standard.
	Most relationships subscribe to that.
	Obviously, people can deviate from that.
	Yeah, but that's a subjective standard.
	And at the end of the day, the only reason you appeal to that subjective standard is because if I don't trust you and you don't trust me, one of us feels bad.
	I just told you there's many instances where you might not feel that.
	Not a single one of those that doesn't really boil down to it made the other person feel bad.
	And so in your opinion, feel bad.
	He just disagreed.
	No, you even created a hypothetical neutral.
	So you said, hypothetically, what if neutrally it didn't make you feel bad for your wife to go out and do this thing?
	What would be her objection?
	Okay, what if I found out my husband cheated on me and I genuinely have zero emotional reaction to it, but I still want to dump him?
	Did I dump him because it makes me feel bad or because I feel like we don't have a strong foundation because there's dishonesty and there's a lack of trust?
	Why would I don't understand?
	Why do you want the honesty and the trust inside of the relationship if you don't care if he cheats?
	It's not about don't care.
	I can care without it making me feel bad.
	Yeah, but okay, so you care, but it doesn't make you feel bad?
	That could happen, yeah.
	How?
	You can't control your emotional response to something.
	Maybe you find out someone cheats on you or you found out your husband, you know, texted another girl and you're like, okay, this violates my boundaries.
	I don't care about that because it makes you feel bad.
	People have boundaries that aren't always directly purely correlated to their feelings about it.
	Oh, really?
	So if guy is texting and you don't care, that means...
	It's not about don't care.
	It maybe doesn't make me feel bad.
	Oh, if it doesn't make you feel bad, then you don't care, right?
	I don't agree with that.
	You don't?
	No.
	So you care if a guy's texting another person even if it doesn't make you feel bad.
	I would still care.
	Even if in that moment I felt apathetic about it, I would still end the relationship, even if I personally didn't cry about it.
	Even though you didn't care.
	Even if I didn't cry about it or something.
	Why would you do anything?
	Why would you do anything at all if you didn't care?
	That makes no sense.
	That's the stupidest thing I've heard out of you tonight.
	Why would you do anything if you didn't care?
	Because reversely, I wouldn't set boundaries purely based on how I feel about it.
	So, for instance, if I was overly jealous about my husband having a female coworker, I wouldn't then say, quit your job because this makes me feel bad.
	So, it goes both ways.
	But that's something you care about.
	Yes, it's both of them.
	I get what you're saying, but hypothetically, what you're saying is you can have values without having emotion tied to those values.
	Yes.
	Typically, they are correlated, but not always.
	So, the same way I can, you know, value honesty and trust.
	And maybe I have a visceral reaction to you having a female coworker, and that could be irrational.
	So, I'm not going to deduce my boundaries from my emotions.
	And likewise, I'm not going to always deduce it.
	What is that emotional from the boundaries?
	Where does that actually happen, especially in the context of a relationship?
	Yeah, the distinction here.
	Well, the distinction here is care.
	I'm feeling irrationally jealous about my husband having a female coworker.
	It happens every day.
	The distinction here is care.
	So, what you say is rational.
	Sorry, go ahead, man.
	What?
	You said irrationally.
	You feeling irrational.
	That was my whole point.
	I can have rational boundaries and standards that don't always correlate to whether I feel good or bad because people feel bad all the time about things that are irrational, such as your husband having a female coworker.
	Yes.
	So I went and say, don't do this thing because it doesn't make because it makes me feel bad.
	So that was my whole point.
	Yes, you can.
	I'm saying you can't in this context.
	So the problem that you made with this particular hypothetical, when you reverse it, you introduce care.
	And I'm saying, fine, you can introduce care.
	It works in that hypothetical.
	The opposition hypothetical doesn't because I'm claiming that any of the standards that you would appeal to for why you would not take that test are going to appeal to care and therefore feel bad.
	I disagree, and I already laid it out.
	Nope, you gave me a hypothetical where you just reintroduced the word care again and said, in this case, if I did care, then blah, blah, blah.
	I'm saying people set boundaries in relationships that are completely disparate from whether they feel good or bad.
	So same way again, I may feel bad if my husband has a female coworker.
	I'm not going to then say you can only work with men or you can only go to an all-male gym.
	Yes.
	And likewise, I might say don't text other girls and don't sex with other girls, but whether I break up with you isn't going to be contingent on whether when I find out I cry about it or not.
	No, no, no.
	Why don't you feel disrespectful?
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Why don't you disrespect is maybe the variable here?
	Yeah, before you even cry about it, why did you set the standard to begin with?
	Because of certain values in the relationship?
	Because things you care about.
	That's what I would say.
	Care about, but not feel good or bad.
	You said whether it hurts her feelings.
	How could you care about it if you don't feel good or bad about it?
	No, you really didn't.
	In this context, that doesn't work.
	why would you set the standards if you didn't care about the standards because you felt good or bad about the standard?
	Because I can think there's certain- Shut up.
	I can think there's certain pillars.
	Sorry.
	I could think there's certain pillars that breed a stronger relationship regardless of whether or not I personally feel good or bad about it.
	And I know you agree with me.
	But why do you care about the stronger pillar?
	Because I want a strong relationship.
	Because you care about it?
	Because you value the relationship.
	You want it to have.
	Because you care about it.
	I didn't say care wasn't a variable.
	I said feeling good or bad.
	And I'm saying you can't have the feel good or bad if you care about something you have to have to feel good or bad.
	I gave you an example in which you don't.
	That doesn't have to be the case with the coworker.
	You actually didn't.
	What you do in that example is you just say, yes, in that case, for care, I do feel good or bad.
	And then I set reasonable boundaries.
	No, I said you don't.
	You don't deduce the boundaries from feeling good or bad.
	I think you do.
	Nobody does that.
	Everyone does that.
	Everybody does that.
	Every jealous wife says you can't work with other women.
	No, no, no.
	But the reason that they would say that or not say that is because they care about it.
	And so therefore, the fact that they care about it is why they set the boundary for good or it makes me feel good or makes me feel bad because I care about it.
	Yeah, the emotional business.
	No, because I said they still feel bad about it, but they still let their husband work with other women because they realize that they don't feel bad about it.
	The reason that they could still feel bad about it and allow it, but they still feel bad.
	I know you see my point.
	And I'm saying that from your perspective in this particular case, why shouldn't a man, or why shouldn't a woman take the paternity test if a man asked her to other than I feel bad that you asked me to do that?
	And I told you why.
	Her feelings are irregardless of the fact that maybe she wants to have a strong pillar of having trust and faith in the relationship.
	Same way, maybe I don't personally feel good or bad if my boyfriend says share your location with me.
	But maybe I'll say like, okay, but if you don't trust me, then this probably isn't going to be like a sustained relationship for a long period of time.
	And okay, the word trust there, doing a lot of heavy lifting for your point.
	So I feel like you wouldn't trust.
	Let me finish.
	I just like to.
	No, I just want to say, I'm not even disputing the fact or like the request of requesting a paternity test.
	You were just asking, what are some other objections?
	Yeah, but I think it's your prerogative to ask.
	But even in that, even in that, you're using the word trust there.
	It's doing a lot of heavy lifting for your argument.
	Am I to assume that you care about trust then?
	Yes, I never know.
	I said feeling good or bad.
	Stop, stop.
	Why would you care about the trust?
	Why would you care about the trust?
	Because having a strong sense of trust in a relationship leads to a healthier relationship regardless of whether I feel good or bad.
	So even though I may feel bad about the fact that my husband has a female coworker, if I have a strong sense of trust, that takes precedence over my feelings of good or bad.
	Yeah, okay.
	Forget the absent analogy.
	Inside of your relationship, without qualifiers, right?
	Without going, just like the just answer this single question.
	What's so funny, Brian?
	Just answer this scene.
	No, no, Brian, tell me what's so funny.
	No, no, answer this single, just answer this single question.
	Trust inside of this hypothetical, okay?
	Inside of your own hypothetical.
	The paternity one or the other?
	Yeah, the paternity one, which is doing all the heavy lifting here.
	The word trust there implies you care.
	We agree, right?
	That you care about trust.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	And do you care about the trust?
	Because if you can't trust the other person, right, it would elicit a negative feeling in you.
	No.
	No.
	Okay.
	Wow.
	And there's nothing I can do.
	Nothing you can do.
	There's nothing.
	What do you mean, wow?
	It doesn't make sense.
	It literally does.
	It doesn't.
	It doesn't make sense.
	It doesn't make sense because psychologically, that's just not how it requires.
	You have a strong, healthy relationship.
	Don't you feel good?
	Can you grab that?
	Yes, and I'm saying you could have a strong, healthy relationship and still get feelings of jealousy that have nothing to do with whether you trust the person or not.
	Yeah, but you but people get jealous if like a waiter hits on their husband, even if they know their husband will never in a million years sleep with that waiter.
	It doesn't make sense.
	Yeah, but all that is tinkered by the feelings.
	Yeah.
	Well, I mean.
	You're all missing my point, okay.
	We're all missing my point.
	We're sorry.
	You just came in and started laughing at him as if you understood what he said.
	I got it.
	We're not, we're not, yeah, it is.
	It is, because at the end of the day, anything that involves two people being together is going to be predicated on emotion, regardless.
	Regardless.
	I think no matter what happens, like there is a negative or positive response.
	And you have the same thing.
	I see, I think you do have the choice.
	Summarize the argument for me, Brian.
	I think you do have the choice whether you're going to express that or not.
	Yeah.
	Like you internally are going to have a positive or negative.
	You're going to have a physiological position.
	But sometimes maybe you won't express it.
	Tell me anything you deduce from that conversation.
	Just anything.
	Those come in and laugh and laugh.
	Before I was that the distinction you was making?
	Not like they feel it, but they don't act on it.
	You can feel jealous.
	Typically, people create boundaries in their relationship that are completely disparate from how they feel.
	Because I might feel jealousy towards my husband, even being around another woman, but I'm never going to actually realistically ask him to work in an all-male office.
	So likewise, I may feel offended, or I may care about the fact that we don't have trust in a relationship without it making me necessarily feel bad.
	Because that was all in response to him saying, what would be the only objection to asking for a paternity test other than it makes my wife feel bad?
	And I said she might recognize that there's a lack of trust in the relationship, which is a necessary pillar for a long, healthy relationship.
	Yeah, I don't, I don't think that's a good idea.
	So yeah, well, I got a question here.
	First, we got a chat here from Lum Desky.
	Thank you for the Canadian 100 men.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Preferences are not aching to law like religion because we believe that God holds us accountable to his laws.
	Your preferences are not enforced by an external entity and are ultimately within your control.
	Andrew, I respect your conviction.
	Unfortunately, I always, I'll wait until he's back.
	Here, we have another chat, though, while we wait for Andrew to come back.
	Stiffler, ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of one to ten, their looks.
	Physical looks, scale one to ten.
	We'll start with you.
	We'll go around the table.
	Go ahead.
	Eight.
	So eight point five.
	Eight, eight point five.
	I'm a ten.
	Seven.
	Eight.
	Six point five.
	I'd say seven point five, eight, four.
	That's lower than last time.
	I used to say six.
	I'm a five.
	In front of all these beautiful women, how could I ever not humble myself down to a four, really?
	Proud of you, Andrew.
	Yeah.
	I'm a five.
	I give myself a five.
	So wait, eight point five, ten, seven?
	Eight?
	Okay.
	All right.
	Brian, you rated yourself lower than usual.
	Yeah, I've dropped six and a half.
	See, now that's humble.
	Yeah, that's humility.
	That's humble.
	That's humility.
	Right?
	That's the thing that's usually harder for men to do.
	Just say it.
	Just point it.
	I've noticed a pattern here.
	I think men tend to fairly accurately self-assess their own level of physical attractiveness, whereas I've heard more self-esteem issues than women do.
	What's that?
	I've heard men have more self-esteem issues than women do.
	I feel like I disagree a little bit.
	Why would you say that?
	And I also heard that they're also more emotional.
	Are they?
	Who have you heard these days?
	Yeah, because, well, I mean, you guys will act off based off of pride, and that is going to be like an emotion thing.
	Not necessarily like that.
	Do you think men or women have more cosmetic surgery?
	I think probably women.
	Yeah, probably women.
	Do you think that that's because they have way more self-esteem than men?
	I don't think that necessarily what I'm talking about is the same thing.
	I just need to.
	Well, I think it is.
	Well, for instance, for instance, you just rated yourself a four, right?
	Yeah.
	And maybe people may not agree with you.
	And I just rated myself a 10 and people may not agree with me, right?
	But we're just talking about simple self-esteem.
	My self-esteem is clearly higher than you.
	No, I'm not sure that we are.
	I think that what we're talking about is a value judgment.
	And I think that I'm making a way better value judgment than the value judgment that you're making.
	So the value judgment that I'm making is this.
	I'm old and I'm married and I'm out of shape and I smoke, right?
	And I'm not a very pleasant person to be around for long periods of time, especially for the opposite sex.
	Like I know all of these things about myself.
	So my value judgment overall is a four.
	Tell me the value judgment of how you came to a 10.
	Oh yeah, I just think that in general we should think that we are great.
	Right.
	So you just decided it with there's no value judgment there.
	You just decided it.
	Yeah, he asked me what I would rate myself and because it's my opinion about myself.
	Just looks like I am, it took a long time for me to love myself and I do now.
	And so yeah, I think that like, you know, I'm a C10.
	I have a question for you.
	Hold on just one sec.
	Do you think you're a 7.5?
	I said 8.
	Oh, yeah, get it right.
	How did you come to that?
	How did you come to that value judgment?
	Because I don't put within my value within a rigidity, a rigidity?
	That's not the right word.
	Rigidity.
	Rigidity.
	Rigidity, yeah.
	I don't put that within that rigidity of certain, I guess.
	Value judgments.
	More subjective opinions about what value is.
	Because I know my value.
	I know my worth.
	And I know my beauty that I hold within myself for myself and that is appreciated by other people.
	Because at the end of the day, beauty is subjective.
	And it is absolutely within my right to hold myself to a higher value in how I conduct myself in the world around me.
	Yeah, but when you're talking about the value judgment here, my wife, I'm sure that she has a way higher value judgment of me than I have of me.
	I would agree that she probably should from her subjective assessment.
	She probably thinks I'm a great provider.
	She thinks I'm a great father.
	She thinks I take care of all of my responsibilities and duties.
	She can 100% trust me.
	So she probably has this really high value judgment of me.
	But when I'm doing an actual assessment of me, like Andrew Wilson, the person, my looks and how it's reflected outwards to other people, right?
	I'm adding this value, like a mathematical formula to come up with.
	That equals four.
	What are you doing to come up with that other than I just think that we should have high self-esteem so that we, because I just think so.
	Because I know I'm a good person.
	Because frankly, if we want to get aesthetic, I don't have a busted face.
	I'm fat.
	And if people want to reduce my value because of my fatness, that's not my problem.
	And that is not the ideology I hold for myself.
	I am someone who is pursuing weight loss, not for aesthetics, not for looks, but for my health.
	And it is something I'm moving forward with because I have been, for the past two to three years now, working on my self-love and loving myself into a place to care enough about myself to take my health back into control when I was being consistently shamed when I was gangstocked on R slash fat people hate.
	In 2015, when I have to do it works because you're going to change.
	You're really great at over talking and being disrespectful and I'd love the opportunity to get my point across.
	Okay, but just just to cut in here a little bit.
	The original question was rate your looks, because you mentioned your personality.
	You have a great personality, or whatever it is, and I and, like I said, my fatness doesn't devalue me.
	Why so?
	I'm an age.
	Why doesn't it?
	Because I think that fat can be beautiful.
	It's my assessment about the perspective yeah, but why is it that your own assessment of your looks has nothing to do with how the external world perceives you?
	That's my problem right, because you don't care.
	So there's no real value judgment.
	I don't care about other people's opinion than living in a value I want to myself.
	Yeah, if you don't live that way, that sucks for me.
	If there's a value judgment of how you would self-assess your own looks.
	The only Possible conceivable metric I could even think of would be the perception of how other people view you for your value judgment and other people.
	I was in a relationship for almost eight years with someone who thought myself that was perceptible.
	And he had told me that more often than not.
	Go ahead.
	He had told me that more often than not.
	Yeah, he had told me that more often than not.
	I have been pursued by many men who think I am gorgeous and beautiful.
	That perception exists whether you have it or not.
	Okay, so assume for a second, I can assume inside of like I can envision a world where you're the only human being who's inside of the world.
	And guess what?
	I'll never be the only one who thinks I'm hot and I know that bugs the shit out of you.
	If you're the only human being who's inside of a world, I can perceive that I can come up with whatever metric I want for myself because I have nothing to compare it to.
	So if I have nothing to compare it to and I have nobody else's value judgment, then I can say I'm the most beautiful person who's ever lived.
	And that would be true.
	But if I have the value judgment of hundreds of millions of people to compare the standard to, and I know that I'm below that threshold and just decide that I'm above that threshold anyway, I'm not the only person.
	It's not based on anything objective.
	You're just making shit of money.
	No, I'm going to ask us our opinion.
	So yes, it was a made-up opinion from us.
	Yeah, it is.
	For sure.
	Yeah, but that was overstated.
	That was the point.
	The only person who does not have your perception of your truth is not the same for myself or anything or anyone else.
	Yeah, what is, I mean, what is truth in a world that you're an eight?
	And what's societal standards in which country?
	I must say that.
	Every country on planet Earth, she's not an eight.
	You're ridiculous.
	It's ridiculous.
	In different places because people like different things.
	Yeah, he's so combative, bro.
	It's wild.
	He gets very upset.
	I agree with reality.
	And he finished the bottom line here, and I've been respectful.
	It's not disrespectful.
	I'm just telling you what's true.
	Oh, what was the energy?
	I don't know about me being a mother, bro.
	That was me.
	I have been taking it respectfully for hours now.
	But to be fair, also, it's interesting to claim to be so religious and so close to Jesus and be so negative.
	To tell the truth?
	No, I'm just saying, just to be so.
	What would Jesus do?
	He'd be like, you're a 10, sweetheart.
	I wouldn't turn the other cheeks.
	I believe that he would turn the other one.
	He would love me as one of God's children.
	He would have known that if my turning and my mind is not a good thing.
	But you know you're fat too, whether he loves you or not.
	You know what?
	Being fat is not bad.
	It's embarrassing, though, to claim the religion.
	We just.
	Just fucking crazy.
	There's going to be other people who are going to be like, I don't claim this because it's like, this is part of the reason why you're hypocritical.
	You're claiming to love and be this one big thing.
	And then to be so negative instead of encouraging or say even anything in actuality.
	It's a destructive way.
	You kind of just get pink and start yelling.
	The only way.
	The only way that I can get a word in when you shrill harpies are screeching is for me to talk loudly.
	Well, no, you, I mean, you're really great at overtalking.
	That's one of your best dogs, you're scared of yourself.
	Well, I have to cut into cut down on the prattle.
	That's true.
	I'm a terrible moderator.
	I'm a dog shit bother.
	Okay, hold on.
	Let me just come in really quick.
	Let me just come in.
	All right, put your swords away for just a sec.
	The views expressed by the panelists do not necessarily reflect the views of me or the whatever podcast.
	Now, you said.
	Okay, I have a question for you.
	I have a question for you.
	I think you said women should view themselves.
	Not just women people in general.
	In general.
	But so do you think all women should view themselves as tense?
	I would love them to, yes.
	And not because everyone also agrees with them.
	Let me ask you a question.
	Are all women tense?
	I have it.
	I'm attracted to men.
	No, I'm not saying whether you're attracted to them, but I'm sure you can.
	I'm sure you can recognize a beautiful, like a beautiful woman.
	It's perceptible.
	But do you think all women are tens?
	In their own right, for sure.
	Not sure what that means, but okay.
	Are all men tens?
	In their own right, for sure.
	No, but do you think all men are tens?
	In their own right, for sure.
	I don't really understand in their own right.
	For sure.
	I can appreciate things that I'm not necessarily attracted to.
	Does that make sense?
	But do you?
	Okay, do you think?
	So, in your eye, are all men tens?
	Like, just aesthetically, so just by looks.
	I be cutting.
	And women.
	Okay, because I know that someone thinks they're a 10, in my mind, that's good enough to be part of the 10.
	Yes.
	Would I necessarily date them?
	Maybe not.
	But as far as like believing they're a 10, I know, for instance, is ice cream bad just because someone doesn't like the ice cream?
	No, everyone's going to have their different opinion of it.
	And so the fact that someone likes green mint ice cream, for me, it might not be my perception, but does it make it bad ice cream?
	No, it could still be good ice cream.
	So for that person, I don't, maybe they're not necessarily if I date them, but do I believe they should think they are a 10?
	Is what I said earlier.
	Yes, I believe they should think they are a 10.
	Okay, I just think they should, I think all people should love themselves.
	So if we ask the question, it sucks so much to not love yourself.
	You said if you mapped it onto reality, if you just mapped it onto reality, then what?
	Yeah, what would you say then if you mapped it onto reality?
	What do you mean?
	Are all women 10 if you mapped it onto reality?
	Rather than how you kind of subjectively feel like they should feel about themselves, if you were to map it onto reality outside of that subjective.
	I think it would vary depending on where I'm at.
	You're in Kazakhstan.
	I don't know what the women are.
	So what would you say?
	For example, what would you say Scarlett Johansson would be aesthetically, cross-culturally to most men?
	Do you think most men would find her attractive?
	Russian milk?
	I'm only talking from someone who you guys all would not find to be attractive.
	Like, I'm not someone you're into, but I know there's men who think that I'm the shit.
	And of different countries I go, like, like we were talking about last time.
	Like, I might be like, and someone was clowning.
	They're like, she's not a Seattle 10.
	But, like, I think it really depends on where you're at.
	What country could Scarlett Johansen be considered not pretty in?
	I don't know.
	I haven't been to all the countries.
	Could you even envision that there is one?
	I could, yeah.
	You could.
	What would you speculate?
	I would speculate.
	She's okay.
	The area where it would be attractive would be in a culture where the people look like that.
	Sweden.
	So you don't.
	Scandinavian.
	So would you say Europe?
	Just Europe?
	I mean, sure, it depends on.
	I mean, I just think.
	You don't think Africa either?
	It depends.
	I'm probably South Africa.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I mean, it just depends.
	Like, I'm going to go different places and people are going to receive me different.
	I was considered to be beautiful in China, but not necessarily someone they would be attracted to, if that makes sense.
	And when I went to Trinidad, I was the shit.
	In California, people don't really care that much because I'm not necessarily their societal standards of beauty.
	So I really think it depends on where I'm at or where the person's at.
	I'm not going to, I'm not trying to be mean here, but I don't think you're a 10.
	I know you said that.
	What did she say?
	Seven.
	See, Catholic.
	That's why it's Catholic.
	I was raised Catholic.
	What does that have to do with anything?
	Here, we have another conversational thread here that we can get into.
	Misty, last time we were on, we got into a big fun debate.
	We were talking about the patriarchy and systems and oppressor, oppressed.
	We talked about white men.
	You remember?
	I can't remember.
	Now, I have the ultimate representative here of the patriarchy.
	And I was hoping that you guys could have a calm and collected conversation about Patriarchy and systems of the oppressors and the oppressed, white men.
	You want a white male to have a conversation about who's oppressed with a black female?
	Yes.
	That sounds dope.
	Not gonna lie.
	The white half of you.
	I don't know that I need to have.
	Thank you.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I know.
	I just don't know that I've got that off my mind.
	I came here to talk about dating.
	I don't want to talk about that with my grandfather.
	Wait, who's your grandfather?
	Sorry, my grandfather's also a white male, so I was just like, I don't want to have that.
	did you just say something rather ageist no i'm talking i'm deeply offended that you would refer to andrew as a i just i was raised by a white male and a white female And so the experiences we have are so vastly different that I'm just not even interested in going down that road.
	It's like standpoint theory.
	I'm just, it's a lot.
	For me, it's just, it's a lot emotionally to have to like unpack that.
	And I know you make us not understand, but it's no, I understand.
	It's called standpoint theory.
	Oh, okay.
	So feminist standpoint theory that you went back through and rewrote all of American history.
	Literally, I'm not kidding.
	They rewrote all of American history from the perspective of women because they felt like just giving a detailed actual historic analysis wasn't fair because had to come from the perspective of women.
	So that's what you're talking about is called standpoint theory.
	I don't know that I was talking about that.
	Well, it's the same exact thing.
	You're saying, because my experience is so vastly different, our perspectives are going to be vastly different, right?
	But then the question comes down to, well, which perspective should we?
	No, no, no, it's not that.
	It's just that I don't want to.
	No, okay, that's fine.
	Well, maybe we can get back from the middle of the middle.
	I don't want to talk about dating.
	Oh, let's talk about dating.
	That's actually related to dating.
	Sure.
	Well, feminism, you know, I think that's very much related to dating because feminism, you know.
	The feminism.
	Okay.
	So here, you want to talk about dating?
	Let's talk about dating.
	Let's talk about dating.
	Let's talk about body count.
	Let's talk about body count.
	Should do you object?
	Because a lot of times men care a lot about this.
	Do you object to men caring about a woman's body count?
	Starting with you.
	I just think body counts are arbitrary.
	Arbitrary.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Farah, what about you?
	I think I've said before, if the man is also highly selective and disciplined, I think it's totally his prerogative to prefer a woman with a low body count.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	Yeah, I don't have an issue with it.
	Is it immature?
	I'm sorry?
	Is it immature for a guy to care about body count?
	The past is the past.
	I just, I really believe that you should get what you want.
	And if that's something that you want, go for it.
	Now, would it make me feel sad if I decided if I wasn't part of your crew and I liked you and I, because of my body count, you were not interested?
	For sure, but will I live?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I mean, you know, you're about to be asked a question.
	You could have started this.
	There's not room here.
	Yeah, there's no room.
	I feel like Is there room for you once and let's come this way a little bit?
	Narr.
	If he takes his leg out, then yes, but I'm not sure.
	I feel like it's up to the person, to be honest.
	Like the girl.
	I mean, if she doesn't mind.
	Wait, it's the guy, right?
	How do you feel about men who care about that?
	Do you object to men having a preference in body count?
	No, because it's their choice.
	All right.
	I cannot object.
	Okay.
	You said it was arbitrary.
	Yeah, so to go back on whether I object or not, I just think that at the end of the day, it's their individual right to choose if they care about that aspect or not.
	Because for both sides, it's like an aspect I don't care about from my perspective.
	So if someone has that, then it's not a compatibility factor for us, and that's fine with me.
	Well, arbitrary means without system.
	So it's not arbitrary.
	We have a system in place to know what this is, which is how many men a woman's been with.
	That's the system.
	So it's not really arbitrary.
	You make a distinction that it doesn't mean anything or it's not important to you, but it's definitely not arbitrary.
	So just like backing up, I'm just curious.
	Why do you do you think from the man's perspective, if the preference is to hold the double standard, which is that we find it to be very important, you don't find it to be important, do you think we're holding a double standard?
	I think this double standard exists if a man has a high body count and refuses to be with women with a low body count.
	That doesn't make it wrong.
	It is a double standard.
	It's a double standard, but it's by definition.
	It's what they choose to do.
	And I'm just not really in the business of telling men what I think they should or shouldn't do if I'm not interested in having them as friends or partners.
	So it's just like, well, going around the table once more.
	So some of you said body count doesn't really matter.
	Don't object to, or you do object perhaps to men caring about body count.
	You think it shouldn't matter so much.
	You think it shouldn't be such a big deal.
	What's your body count?
	I don't have an exact number.
	I have an idea.
	Range is fine?
	Probably somewhere between 50 to 60.
	50 to 60?
	Okay.
	Farah?
	Zero.
	Into the mic?
	Zero.
	Okay.
	Now, just real quick, because after the last panel, when you said that, a ton of people went nutso in my Discord and said that they had video of you saying the opposite of that.
	And that you basically are just LARPing and just pretending that that's true.
	And I just, I'm not saying that they're right because I don't know.
	I'm just saying that that's what they're saying.
	If I had to guess what they're responding to is I make skits on TikTok, kind of like satirical skits about discussions of gender.
	So I have like an off-screen male voice, so he'll ask me a question or I'll read a question being like, what's your body count?
	And it's all scripted and I'll say something like, um, eight, and then he'll say, like, that's disgusting.
	And I'll ask him like a question response.
	So they're responding to like, yeah, skits.
	Okay, because every time I've talked with you, it's always been the same.
	So I have no reason to doubt it, but I had seen that, so I thought I'd ask.
	Oh, I don't share.
	Range?
	You want to do a range?
	Range.
	I don't share.
	Okay.
	Probably like eight.
	Probably like eight.
	Or nine.
	Or ten.
	Eight or nine.
	Or ten.
	No, not ten.
	Eight or nine.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Not ten.
	I will not be sharing.
	Maddie.
	What?
	Okay.
	Well, you've shared before.
	Yeah.
	She has a boyfriend.
	I do.
	Multiply it by three, and that's the real number.
	You just go somewhere.
	So wait.
	Yeah.
	To be clear, I wouldn't, I mean, if I'm saying that I have a number, if it was higher, I would say it was higher.
	Just to be clear, I don't think that's this situation.
	Next time you have to say 20, because you know they're already going to multiply it.
	Who's in the sofa?
	Actually, it's 20.
	Okay.
	So, okay.
	Got it.
	Cool, cool.
	Good talk.
	How many are you at?
	We just skipped you, and we skipped all the men out there.
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay, fine.
	We'll do the men.
	We'll do the guys.
	Yeah, what do you mean?
	Why would we not do the men?
	I don't know.
	I'll always count.
	I've been around a block.
	Have you said it before on the show?
	Yeah, I have said it.
	What is it?
	I said it was probably between 50 and 60.
	Wow.
	Multiply by three.
	You guys got something in common.
	I think the quote in the movie is like divided by three for men.
	Oh, really?
	Because men will lie.
	You should have said 150, bro.
	Mason?
	Zero.
	Oh, I'm married.
	I can't disclose that kind of information.
	If you're not willing to.
	I'll tell you what, I'll go if you go.
	No, I won't be doing that.
	No, no, I'm not married.
	I'm not doing that.
	When I walk something down, then we can come back here.
	I got you.
	That's funny.
	Wait, what?
	I don't know what it has to do with anything.
	I'll definitely go if you go.
	I don't really share it with you.
	Did you save yourself for me?
	If I show you yours, you show me mine.
	Okay, all right.
	Good times.
	I'm curious, going around the table.
	That wasn't even like a thing when I was younger.
	Who here considers themselves a female?
	Did you say your number?
	I missed it.
	I'd rather not speak about that.
	All right.
	Going around the table, who here considers themselves a feminist?
	Can we have the definition before you ask that question?
	Somebody who hates men?
	Not me.
	I'm straight.
	Huh?
	I said, not me.
	I suppose you could still be straight.
	I hate men.
	I don't know.
	I mean, there's a lot of men.
	They are difficult.
	I'm not going to lie, but no, I don't hate men.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I'm being a little facetious.
	Well, we went by your definition.
	A feminist, somebody who believes things that aren't true.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm not being very sad.
	Well, then I definitely am a feminist.
	I'm not being very generous here.
	Yeah.
	I believe all things untrue.
	All right, here.
	The most generous definition.
	Somebody who advocates for women and the rights of women.
	That's the most generous definition I can give feminism.
	By that definition, for sure.
	Yeah.
	So far, it's been no, yes, no, yes.
	So it depends on what your definition, I suppose.
	That's the most generous definition I can give of feminists.
	Well, by going by that definition.
	Do you have maybe a counter definition for feminism?
	No, I don't.
	That's the thing is like when he says that, I want to be specific what it is because of the debate that he's trying to get into.
	So I just want to be specific.
	Well, okay, so my view of feminism is, and I don't object to women's advocacy or women's rights, but because by definition, but what I they're trying to paint it as this, again, there's nothing wrong to fight for women's advocacy or women's rights, but they claim to be fighting for equality.
	And that's very different than women's rights or women's advocacy.
	So my view is, for example, if there is some form of equality that does not stand to benefit women, said feminists will not fight in order to secure said equality.
	Where feminists or women do not stand to benefit from some form of equality, they will not fight for it.
	I guess by that definition, I'm not them because of that.
	So it's not clear.
	So I guess when it comes to feminists saying they're for equality, it's not clear to me if they're for equality.
	We have different strengths, so I wouldn't believe that we could be equal.
	Like we do have different strengths.
	And I think we should be celebrated for those different strengths from each other.
	Wouldn't it be, in the way that we've equalized a lot of things in society, given women equal rights, wouldn't it be equal to make women subject to military conscription?
	That would be equality, but I'm not sure.
	I don't believe either of you.
	I've never heard of feminists object to that.
	No, feminists would say we want to do away with military conscription, which is just not politically tenable for any.
	It's never going to happen.
	You can't do away with military conscription.
	I'm pretty sure feminists will say that they want to be drafted.
	You're thinking of maybe like trad wives, but feminists trad women.
	Most feminists.
	Even with very traditional feminists.
	What about this?
	In Florida, in Florida, there was a bill to each other.
	Why do you think feminists would say that?
	No, Tradwell.
	Oh.
	Do you think feminists have fought to want to enter male-dominated spaces, even if they don't benefit them?
	Maybe not, like, all of them aren't.
	Only they don't.
	Like, for instance, feminists don't fight to go and have teams against professional male NFL players, do they?
	But they.
	No, no, that's a men's space.
	Do feminists try to go and advocate that they can have teams of women go play football against male NFL players?
	They literally do, and then people laugh at them, which is somewhat justified in my opinion, and people say like.
	They literally don't.
	They literally are not out there advocating for that.
	They're out there advocating for their own teams against women, but not really teams against men in contact.
	Brian, have you never heard a feminist say that there should be desegregation of gender in sports?
	Yeah, but they're talking to the T issue.
	They're not talking to that.
	No, no, no.
	I don't even mean in terms of T issue.
	Have you heard feminists say that, like, oh, we as female athletes want to compete with male athletes?
	Because I feel like that is something that they say, and I think that's a more laughable point of feminism.
	It's possible they've said it, but I've never heard that.
	That's for you.
	I've never even seen what I've seen feminists do is move legislation towards having their own teams, having their own leagues, having the female version of the WNBA, having all of that.
	I've never seen them advocate to have teams actually go up against the male.
	I've never seen that.
	With the T issue just questioning as that progresses, and I don't know how we're going to end up, but I mean, that's going to end up being in question.
	Yeah, but the feminists are against the Ts.
	Some of them, but some of them are not.
	Most of them are.
	Most of the feminists are against the Ts because of this, because they say, we fought all this time to get our own leagues, now you're going to let men in them.
	That's why they're so mad, right?
	Yeah.
	So, yeah, I think that this is an incorrect analysis, honestly.
	I think I'm just too deep in the feminist discourse.
	So, like, feminists go after TERFs and TERFs go after people who say that.
	So, I think IOC.
	Well, TERFs are the feminists.
	The other ones aren't feminists.
	The other ones are postmodernists, and they just kind of call themselves feminists.
	But TERFs are actual feminists.
	Those were the ones who were in the 60s, who were burning their bras and doing all that shit.
	So I think it's kind of counterproductive to even say, oh, do feminists do this or this?
	Because even within feminist discourse, they all hate each other, each other's principles.
	But that doesn't mean that there's not certain principles they both go towards.
	So, well, in this case, egalitarianism, that would be one of the major ones.
	And the assumption that men and women can be interchangeable widgets, whether or not they advocate and move legislation towards something that makes sense, like if we actually were interchangeable widgets, should women's team go up against men's NFL teams, they may not push that way, right?
	Instead, they push towards having their own teams, this and that.
	But definitely there's core underlying principles that they're doing.
	I completely disagree.
	I feel like I'm just way too deep in it.
	Like, I just always hear them butt heads.
	It's like whether we should have a category for female Jeopardy winners, or some feminists think that that's super degrading to women.
	I just, I see all the conflicts.
	Okay, so when I'm talking about principles, let's make sure we clarify this.
	You and I would agree on what egalitarianism is, do you think?
	Or would we need to define it?
	Yeah, could you?
	What's that?
	Yeah, could you give your definition?
	Of egalitarianism?
	It would be like a form of movement towards equality.
	Right, but even that's kind of vague, right?
	Because there's so many different ways people can interpret it.
	Yeah, but I mean, at some point, we're going to have to reduce it to something we can agree on.
	So what do you think egalitarianism is?
	Would that work for this or no?
	No, it would, but like I'm saying, like, feminism, again, is also a definition of pushing towards women's rights and equality, but then there's so much conflict about how you actually achieve that and what it means.
	We should get more specific.
	What I'm saying with the principle, though, like the principle of egalitarianism, you're not going to say that modern feminists and TERFs and all of them don't believe in the principle of egalitarianism.
	You're not going to say any of them do.
	That's one core for the analysis of the whole that you would say is a principle they have in common.
	I'm not even trying to be devil's advocate.
	I'm genuinely disagreeing because I think a lot of TERFs will say like we need our own spaces because we're physically weaker.
	Like we need to be a protective.
	That's the whole egalitarianism.
	Okay, so then egalitarianism just feels really broad right now.
	Well, no, there could be an analysis of which way you move for what is equal, but they still believe in the principle of the thing.
	Okay, I just disagree.
	Like I said, I think a lot of TERFs will say that like we are a weaker gender.
	We need to be protected.
	You think TERFs will say I don't believe in egalitarianism, honestly?
	I would, yeah.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Which ones?
	Like I just said, the ones who think we should be a protected class.
	They're like, we fought for women's rights and equality and egalitarianism.
	And now the T's are coming in and wrecking all that by allowing men into women's space.
	That's their whole thing.
	Right.
	And typically they're saying it on the premise that women are the weaker physically gender, and so they want to be a protected class.
	They want to have locker rooms to themselves in which you get what I'm saying?
	Yeah, but they're saying if men can have their own teams, we can have our own teams.
	That's egalitarianism, right?
	I'm just saying, I've seen so many feminists say that they want to compete with men in sports.
	I've seen so many feminists say we want to be a protective class.
	I've seen some say we don't want a separate category for like female awards and intellectualism and the principle would still be overlapping all of those.
	I guess, but then the principle seems kind of irrelevant to the conversation because it doesn't actually get at any of the issues that are being discussed.
	Then one of the favorite things that you've said all night then is that egalitarianism is so broad, we don't even know what the f ⁇ it means.
	Okay.
	So I'm fine with that.
	We have a chat here.
	I pulled this up earlier, but it was directed at you, Andrew.
	Andrew, I respect your conviction, but you can be nicer.
	That's from Lum DeSky from Canada.
	I feel like people often conflate that when you're having a heated argument or discussion or you say things which are uncomfortable, that that's meanness.
	Do I like this?
	I associate, I associate.
	Yeah, I associate, I don't care what a woman's analysis on what kindness is or meanness.
	I have a different standard clearly on what those things are.
	I don't think that it's cruelty or being unkind or being mean to say things which are obviously, objectively true that people just don't want to hear because it makes them uncomfortable.
	That's not objectively true.
	That warrants.
	That I shouldn't have children.
	That is not objectively true.
	I didn't say you shouldn't have children.
	You were like, yes.
	Nope.
	Your movement is very important.
	What happened was she said, I don't want to have children.
	And I went, yes.
	Your movement was an indication of her.
	But that action alone is what we're talking about.
	And that's what I'm saying.
	What's wrong with that action?
	It's not kind.
	Why is it unkind?
	That's what she said.
	Because you did it with malice.
	Thank you.
	So it's in the tone, not what is said.
	That's my point.
	Oh, come on.
	You can at least concede that you did that to be aware of that.
	Concede.
	Nothing.
	I mean, you literally said it was an asshole move.
	So you literally said it.
	We rewind.
	Like, literally.
	I'm not saying you shouldn't do it.
	I'm just saying, but you did it to be a chef in a little bit.
	Yeah, so the thing is, is like, was it hilarious?
	Yes.
	But was it mean?
	No.
	It wasn't mean.
	Was it hilarious?
	Mediocre at best.
	Yes.
	Then why were you laughing?
	I wasn't laughing.
	Though you should have been.
	I didn't.
	I know, but she was.
	Okay, well, there you got one.
	She just popped her one.
	Okay.
	I'm not going to do that.
	So anyone have anything dating related they'd like to get off their chest here?
	I'd like to talk about dating for a little portion of the show if you guys don't.
	Don't mind.
	You're mediating now.
	I love that.
	I'm trying a little bit.
	You're trying to imagine.
	You were clicking a lot.
	Are you playing solitaire?
	Are you playing solitaire?
	No, I've never seen it.
	I literally can't hear you click.
	I see them now.
	I'm working on 12 hours and so.
	Don't worry about it.
	Don't worry about it.
	All right.
	So, and does anybody have anything dating related that they would like to get off their chest?
	Maybe for the ladies, men are pissing you off in some way.
	You know, they're not buying you your dinner, you know, whatever it may be.
	Is there anything, anything you guys want to talk about?
	Dating related.
	Maybe what about the orgasm gap?
	We can talk about orgasm gaps.
	What is that?
	Apparently, women are not coming as much as men are.
	That's in sexual encounters.
	I have a dating topic.
	You mean per sex, per person are they going to be talking about?
	What are you talking about?
	I've been wondering about this, bringing this topic up, if women think that the sisterhood is stronger than the brotherhood when it comes to dating.
	So meaning, you think women are more unified around keeping secrets and supporting each other and things like this when it comes to the dating market than men are.
	Well, men talk a lot, though.
	They talk way more than we think.
	No.
	No.
	They create podcasts where they talk.
	I feel like women will ensure each other that everything is okay no matter if it's right or wrong You mean that toxic best friend stuff?
	Yeah, exactly.
	I would argue that women for example the offender donated $200.
	You could talk about how more women are cheating than men now.
	Is that true?
	Is it true?
	No.
	I've heard some studies.
	I don't cheat.
	Perhaps it's the case.
	I don't go around the table and see who cheats.
	I'm not cheating more than men, though.
	I mean, I would say, though, when it comes to who talks more, for example, after an encounter, the first time having sex with somebody.
	Hold on.
	Hold on, guys.
	In the study, you look up a shower.
	Look, are you lying?
	No, you don't.
	Can you stop interrupting, please?
	Okay.
	First time encounter.
	A woman is going to tell her best friend all the details about the encounter.
	They're going to tell them the penis size.
	They're going to share intimate details.
	Whereas men, most men, I would say, aren't sharing those details with their friends.
	Like, for example, I would have to be dating a girl for like three to six months before I even, before any of my friends even know who she is.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	That's valid for mature adult men.
	Yeah, like men are like, yeah, girls will be like, after having their first sexual experience with a new guy, will tell their girlfriend or girlfriends everything.
	How big was his dick?
	How long did he last?
	All these fucking details.
	I refuse to share with my male friends any sexual details.
	They won't even know if I've slept with the girl.
	I will not disclose because I don't want to, I'm very discreet.
	I would not disclose any detail, any intimate details to even my closest male friend.
	Oh, you hung out with Becky yesterday.
	How was it, Brian?
	Oh, it was good.
	That's it.
	That's all my male friend is getting.
	All of you guys agree with that?
	What if it was like a famous Instagram model that you and your friend have like talked about?
	As you just thought, if it was like a famous IG model who you and your friend have like talked about.
	I don't date famous IG models.
	But if they were, I mean, like if some guy who, or some girl, since you're famous, if like some girl who you and I. Am I famous?
	I don't think so.
	I'm hyping you up.
	If some girl who like you and your friends, boys have like talked about, I'm like, this girl's so hot.
	I don't talk to my male friends about, oh my God.
	But don't you think a lot of guys?
	Becky is fucking.
	I was just racking my brain thinking about it as he was saying it.
	And even when years and years ago, if I had engaged with a woman and I was talking to my friend, it would just be something as simple as like, yeah, yeah, I plowed her.
	That was about it.
	I wouldn't listen to that detail.
	I wouldn't listen to that.
	There wasn't any of that.
	Which year was this that you were plowing?
	A long time ago.
	Long time ago.
	In my experience, if I even DM a guy innocuously, like, I will hear about it through the grapevine.
	See how you laughed at my joke?
	I was laughing at your joke, all right.
	Good answer.
	Wait, what?
	Oh, you guys.
	What about you guys?
	Say.
	You guys don't talk about it?
	No, my friends just assume I smash every girl they see me with.
	But they don't get into details.
	You guys don't need to talk about it.
	Yeah, I don't need to say it.
	They just know.
	It's just assumed.
	You definitely hit that.
	It's assumed.
	Well, generally speaking, I'm probably not going to be discussing those things.
	What about if you touch a boop?
	Do you tell your friends if you touch a boop?
	Have you touched a boop?
	I don't kiss and tell.
	No, yes.
	Wait, Mason?
	Mason.
	No, okay.
	They feel like sandbags, Mason.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Yeah.
	I'm not going to dish out details.
	I might tell a guy the vague generalities, but no, it's not going to be like- Yeah, we are more specific.
	Huh?
	We're more specific.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, I might hit on keynotes, like...
	What's a keynote?
	I don't know.
	She's pleasant to be around.
	I'm not going to be very descriptive.
	It's going to be like, okay, this is generally how her demeanor is.
	I really like her.
	Yeah, I like her.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's cute.
	I would almost go to the point of if I was with a girl and I found out that she had told her female friend group intimate details about our first encounter, that actually might be grounds for me dumping her.
	Even if she's praising it.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	And she was like, this was the best sex I've ever had.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I suppose that's better.
	I suppose that's now.
	that I think of it if you were to have a like talking to your friend about that would kind of be gay right because you're you're basically Then you have to picture your friend having a bad person.
	That's not what we do.
	That's not what we do.
	That's a lot of things that that's what we want to talk about.
	Yeah, that's what I think.
	I don't want to know.
	I don't know.
	No, it's more like you just, you're just excited for your friend.
	Like, okay.
	I feel like it's just, it's disrespectful.
	It's disrespectful to share private, intimate details with your friends.
	But it's something that's super common among women.
	Like, I would say majority of women.
	This is like the most intimate act you can have with a human being and you're just like airing that out to anybody and just like almost indiscreetly the way that indiscriminately.
	That's what I'm trying to say.
	The way that it biologically works, we work out is different, though.
	Women get, we get a brain energy surge from doing things like you'll see monkeys go pick at each other.
	So we get a brain energy surge from having these conversations about those types of things.
	By betraying your partner's family.
	You call it betraying, but we call it, it's like a sense of community.
	It's biological.
	Yeah, by betraying your partner.
	Yes, because we don't care about you guys.
	That's what it is.
	I mean, that is practically what's happening.
	We just see it differently.
	We're not trying to.
	It doesn't matter how you see it.
	But it's so common that women don't even realize how kind of problematic it is to be sharing these intimate details about their partners.
	It's the status quo.
	Like, I recognize that it's just viewed as the normal social behavior to be sharing this thing.
	Are we talking about partners or just people that we've like either?
	Because I feel like your partner, the rules are slightly different.
	But if you're a woman who doesn't wait long periods of time before having sex with a guy, he might end up become, I would argue most adult relationships in today's day and age, it's not let's wait 10 dates and then have sex.
	It's have sex fairly early on, continue seeing each other continue hooking up, and then we find we like we both like each other.
	We find ourselves now in a relationship.
	So of course, I mean, even if that's the case where it's like, well, what if it's just a casual hookup?
	That casual hookup could end up becoming your boyfriend and you've already disclosed to your close female friends his penis size, all a wide variety of various intimate details.
	But you guys also don't even have names at that point.
	Like you're an elevator guy.
	So like by the time you're my boyfriend, that's even worse.
	I mean, I'm not talking about hooking up.
	I'm just saying like for instance, like I used to have a guy at I Crush at the Gym.
	So he was like Jim Bae.
	And then there was like a really cute guy at the grocery store.
	He was like grocery store bay.
	And it wasn't someone I was like interested in.
	But that being said, I could be like, yeah, he was wearing this shirt of like whatever.
	They don't even, they don't have like a place yet until they do.
	And then I feel like a relationship's different.
	Yeah.
	I mean, look, I get it.
	I get that it's just something that women do, but.
	You guys feel betrayed by it.
	That's interesting.
	Like, if I'm meeting, if I'm meeting, imagine if I disclose to my male friends, like, I told them something about your pussy or something.
	Like, wouldn't you feel a little uncomfortable meeting my friends?
	Like, if you knew that I told my male friend, oh, her pussy was like this.
	And the lips were like this.
	I mean, there's a bit of a stench.
	And like, you know, how would I feel like betrayed to some degree?
	How would I know that you told them?
	I mean, what if you found out, though?
	That's the point.
	Here's the thing.
	If he said something bad, then we probably shouldn't be together.
	And if he said something good, I will feel flattered.
	Oh, who can't?
	I mean, I guess.
	What if he showed the nudes?
	No, absolutely fucking not.
	I wouldn't be able to do that.
	That's the equivalent.
	What if he's describing it?
	He's describing it and giving them the visual.
	Okay, so actually, so this is interesting.
	So men are extremely visual creatures.
	So, but women are extremely emotionally descriptive creatures.
	So like male pornography is very visual.
	Female pornography is descriptive.
	So it's like if you read pornographic novels, that's like the equivalent.
	So you're the equivalent indulgence in what you're saying as you're describing these things, that is the equivalent to sharing a nude for men.
	I think that it would have to be if in my relationship, I would just respect my boyfriend.
	Like whatever relationship I would respect.
	So if he felt like that, for sure.
	Maybe I screwed up and he was elevated guy at first and like he might have got a descriptor before then.
	But once he becomes my man, I'm hoping that I'm going to respect what he wants and we've had that conversation.
	And hearing this all from you guys is actually the first time I've ever thought about it because we do use that as bonding.
	And we don't necessarily, I know when I'm hearing or talking about it, it's not really even about that person.
	It's about my experience with it.
	How did you feel with it?
	How did it make you feel?
	What was your situation with this?
	And that's kind of what we kind of bond over.
	I guess, yeah, yeah.
	I mean, it's nice to hear like where, like, your thought process as you're having those discussions.
	But kind of going back to the point of, I want to find a woman.
	So as Andrew was talking about, I want to find a woman who's going to put my needs above her own.
	I want her to think about how is this going to make me look in front of her friends.
	So yeah, I really appreciate that you're acknowledging like this is not something I thought about.
	Yeah.
	And maybe it's going to be something that you'll consider during the road.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And I also don't like talking about my relationship with.
	Is there going to change?
	Yes.
	Is there anything going to change?
	I mean, I think they people change.
	I grow up.
	I grow and change.
	Maybe it's something that you regret that you've done in the past.
	I don't think that I've done that.
	Most men can say we don't like it when the women that we've hooked up with or even our potential future girlfriends disclose to their female friend group various intimate details that, in our view or in my view, ought to remain private between us because they are just that intimate details.
	I think it's probably the case that even if we were to articulate this, that women are still going.
	You guys enjoy this kind of sharing these details.
	It's the tea, it's the gossip.
	You guys like talking about the really?
	Yeah, like that's a little bit different.
	So, what he's saying, yes, like maybe if it's my boyfriend, I will do it out of respect.
	But, like, for instance, I recently had a rendezvous with someone who I think is interested in me.
	And the place that we rendezvoused was a very unique place.
	And so, like, I did.
	I told my roommate, like, and I told him that I told my roommate.
	And he was like, oh, you're telling the girls.
	And it wasn't girls.
	It was just my roommate because, like, we're both single, and sometimes we like, we'll talk about our dates.
	And so, yeah, I mean, I did, but I told him as well.
	And now that I'm thinking about it, he might have had like, you might be having a thought, like, well, if you do something, I don't know if he's even thinking that far ahead because we're not like that yet.
	But it's just interesting because I'm like, now I'm thinking, like, I wonder if he's right.
	And just to add sort of to Mason's point here, if a girl sent me like a sexy photo or nude photo, I would never share that with anybody, my eyes only.
	My eyes only.
	So unsolicited gets shared with everybody.
	Just that.
	Well, okay, I get if there's like a I think that's a bit different though.
	Are you talking like a guy who you like who's sending a dick pic?
	I don't believe, I don't think men should do that, by the way.
	I don't do that.
	I've never sent a nude photo or a dick pic or anything.
	Well, good.
	Granted, I would not object to receiving pussy pics.
	I'm just saying, ladies, if you want to send me a pussy picture.
	This is the last episode too.
	I'm for it.
	I'm for it.
	BLM, Big Laby Matter.
	Would you like to join my organization?
	I wouldn't actually fit into your group.
	Yeah.
	Because I don't support solidarity.
	Hello?
	Yeah, I just, I wouldn't.
	Yep.
	Is it because you don't?
	Yes.
	I see.
	Yes.
	Sorry, I didn't.
	So I don't want to.
	I hope that wasn't too prying.
	I want to take it away.
	No, but you can still be solidarity.
	I want you to be happy.
	So whatever that means, I'm down for that.
	You know, anybody?
	No, I'm kidding.
	Okay.
	Good to talk.
	I don't.
	Rip.
	Did you guys talk about that?
	Do girls share?
	We don't really talk about that, but I can tell you the first time I saw one, I was like, what the fuck?
	What the fuck?
	And then she was like, yeah.
	And I was like, wow, I didn't know they came in different shapes and sizes like that.
	You guys are going to be talking about that.
	Is this something that you talk about, Maddie?
	Like with your girlfriend?
	You guys just go into the.
	Is that what you guys do when you go into the bathroom together?
	No.
	Yeah, I don't talk about it.
	Good talk.
	Do you guys talk about penises?
	No.
	No, not really.
	That's why I'm sick.
	Like, dude, mine's like an immature thing.
	Like, only teenagers do this stuff.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I was a teenager with it.
	I'm not going to look into this.
	You brought it up.
	He just looks at you.
	Were we going around the table on are you a feminist?
	And then you asked me for a definition.
	Somebody asked me for a definition or something.
	No, and then we were talking and we felt like.
	Oh, did we get everybody said?
	Oh, geez, I'm done.
	We were talking about.
	You now had brought up if we talk about interactions with our men's, with our women.
	Word?
	That's what you had moved to.
	Word.
	Anybody, anything dating related they'd like to get off their chest?
	Anything?
	I was initially going to say earlier when you asked a similar question is I feel my biggest issue when it comes to dating is just emotionally immature people in general, like that being a running theme of lacking communication,
	lacking the desire to process emotions outside of either unhealthy coping skills or in ways that are just not conducive to healthy relationships.
	And I find that to be like my biggest barrier and even being interested in someone.
	I see.
	Oh, we have a Reddit post we need to react to.
	Nick, if you can pull up the Reddit post, this kind of went, gone, I think it was on the New York, the New York Post reacted to it.
	Yep, can you scroll up so it's readable?
	Are my dating deal breakers too strict?
	Can you put us on the other side?
	I'm a 29-year-old.
	Can you make it a little bigger?
	All right.
	I'm a 29-year-old straight man who has been actively dating since I turned 18.
	In that time, I've met a wide array of women, and I've constructed a short deal-breaker list to help me determine suitability early in the dating stage.
	I showed this to a friend who said it was too strict and quite discriminatory.
	Here it is.
	Has cheated in a past relationship, takes recreational drugs on a regular basis, has an incurable STD, is currently in a situation ship or has a friend with benefits, has low standards of hygiene, is a sex worker, whether online or in person, has extreme political views, is a single mother to one or more children.
	That's a good list.
	They said it was too strict.
	Do you guys think that's too strict of a list?
	Great list.
	Great list.
	I agree.
	It's a great list.
	Solid list.
	I don't have an opinion about the list, but I don't think it's too strict.
	That's honestly what I feel too.
	I just think like it's like, you know, at the end of the day, that's his prerogative.
	If those things were to cause contention or negative aspects within the relationship from the foundation of it, then those are his deal breakers and that's his right.
	That's a great question.
	Would you guys recommend them though?
	I'm sorry.
	Recommend what?
	Like, let's say, I'm sure you said great list, right?
	And you do relationship coaching.
	So you would recommend that list to other people, right?
	Like, you should adopt this.
	Yeah, you should do that.
	Would you guys do that?
	Would you tell people they should adopt that list?
	Absolutely.
	There are things on that list that I would recommend, but as a whole, I mean, there are things that I don't think are deal breakers, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because I would only recommend something that was something I would co-sign.
	And I personally don't co-side.
	Like I said, some of those things I would.
	Some of them are not deal breakers for me.
	So like, for example, a single parent, my ex is a single parent.
	So like that's not a deal breaker to me.
	Yeah, that's so kind of the point of this is to say the reason, let's say he was guilty of everything on the list, everything, but in his capacity as a coach, recommended to other men to follow that list because that would be in their best interest most of the time.
	That's the kind of the spirit.
	Yeah, that's the spirit of what we're talking about.
	So pretend for a second, if you were a relationship coach for men, would you recommend this same type of list that he would recommend is the question?
	My biggest thing is I don't think single mothers as a whole should be a deal breaker as a generality.
	Or someone who's cheated in the past because sometimes people like, you know, they've made a difference.
	They grow, they change.
	And that's a case by case.
	Probably not the majority of experience, but it is enough of an aspect to take into account.
	That's actually one of the predominant factors that predicts if someone will cheat, though, if they've cheated in the past.
	So, that's just something that's not.
	I'm not saying it's not.
	I'm not saying that that's objectively true or not, but I'm just saying that there are cases where that's not true, and I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt if I like them enough and trust them enough and their current version of self.
	And I feel that people can prove like actionable change within themselves, not necessarily just physically, but mentally, emotionally, through therapy work, other aspects as well, career change, several factors that can embolden them to stop toxic cycles.
	And it's unfortunately a rare thing that occurs in current society, but it does happen.
	And I want to give someone on an individual basis that chance.
	So, a deal breaker for me is an absolute.
	And meaning that if there's the possibility that that could be a situation that I could work with, then I wouldn't consider that a deal breaker.
	I would consider that like a pink flag versus a red flag.
	You see what I'm saying?
	Yeah, I get what you're saying.
	I think I disagree.
	I might be able to adopt, I could adopt that position, but I don't think I'll be able to adopt that position if it were someone that holds your point of view on your idea of regret.
	Collaborate?
	So, okay, so if someone is engaged in the activity of cheating, I want them to be able to have regret for what they've done, recognize that that was wrong, it was evil, and it was destructive to that relationship or to future relationships.
	I want them to have done the emotional groundwork to work through that, understand, suss out what was wrong with that, be able to come to me and show me, like, I toiled over this.
	I see where I messed up.
	It was wrong.
	I regret that decision.
	I wish I did not do it.
	And, like, there is tangible evidence to that effect.
	Then I could get on board.
	Yeah, and you know, I'll be honest, when it comes to regret, that is a topic in my life I think I have flip-flopped on and I have struggled to understand my relationship with because I've had, like, you know, from being born to 18, I was a Mormon.
	And then I had a few years in my early 20s where I was just angry at the world.
	And then I had like a very committed, monogamous lifestyle relationship.
	And then I threw myself into another extreme.
	So I've had these like sections in life from like very, from like operating from very different perspectives and very different like modalities, places within myself.
	And so I just feel that essentially, based on what you just said, it really does make me want to reflect my perception of regret.
	Okay.
	So I think that's what I think.
	Yeah, I think that that's, and that I am the kind of person where like I really do continually like self-actualize myself.
	I'm very self-aware.
	Wait, can you just speak?
	Sorry, yeah, I'm very self-aware.
	And so I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong or when I think I can improve upon something.
	And I am the kind of person that wants to strive to better myself, even if I don't necessarily know how or how to overcome certain disconnects I have because of like aspects of myself, my identity, my, you know, I got no more fun.
	So guys, we're going to do about 30 more minutes.
	So I lowered the TTS and the read threshold.
	It's 50 and 100, 50 to, or sorry, excuse me, wait, hold on.
	50 and up to read, answer, 100 and up now triggers TTS.
	Nick, I think we just keep the lights on, to be honest.
	We don't, I guess it's the after show, but we'll keep the lights on as is.
	So I don't know if we get back into this.
	We need something juicy here at the end.
	We need to get into some juicy topics here.
	Juicy topics.
	We've got 30 minutes left.
	Let's get into it.
	Let's.
	Keep stalling, yeah.
	Just keep going.
	Okay.
	Fuck it.
	Can you be sexist against men?
	That was some good timing.
	Good timing.
	Comedy.
	I believe that sexism, racism, these general large topics have systemic impact.
	Okay.
	And because of that, I believe that discrimination can happen to anyone, but these systems that are in place for things like sexism have an oppression factor from the systems that are set in place and people that benefit more versus the other.
	And so I believe that men can be discriminated against, but I do not believe that women can be sexist towards men.
	Can men be sexist towards other men?
	I mean, they can be like, what's the word I'm looking for?
	I guess like misandrous towards men.
	Well, can women be sexist towards other women?
	Yeah, internalized misogyny.
	Yeah.
	Okay, a lot of buzzwords coming here.
	Before I have anybody respond to that, I want to get, I'll go around the table.
	And you also said, I'll just double up on the question, can you be racist towards white people?
	If you can, just straighten into the mic.
	By the very definition you just used.
	Well, just go ahead.
	I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not really super interested in having a heated back and forth debate on my beliefs on this because they're just my beliefs.
	And I could be related to dating somehow, you know, if you were dating.
	I mean, I don't, I personally were dating a white person.
	It could be related somehow.
	What if the sexism question definitely is?
	I personally do not use race as a factor of attraction.
	So, like, I will, I would date any race.
	Race is not something that is a yay or a nay.
	It's just an aspect of someone's person.
	And I am the kind of person.
	So should I just call it ethnicity?
	Is that okay?
	Are we not all just human?
	Yeah, I mean, yeah.
	Race and ethnicity are different.
	Correct.
	And we are.
	Okay, I can agree with that.
	Should I just assume that your answer is no, you cannot be racist against white people?
	That's my belief, yes.
	Oh, you could have just.
	So wait.
	Yeah.
	I mean, in short, yes.
	Do you want to just say it yourself just so I'm not, I don't want to speak for you?
	I mean, I'm agreeing with your point.
	I don't know why I have to verbatim or say it.
	You know, okay.
	Varu?
	Yes, I think you can be sexist against men and racist against white people.
	Okay.
	Why you look at, don't look at me that way.
	What the fuck?
	Start with, can you be sexist against men?
	And can you be racist against white people?
	The way that, I mean, what she's saying, the way that it's supposed to be set up, or my understanding of it, and I find to be corrected on this, but my understanding that is that I don't really know that much about sexism as far as like if they're the exact same just via sex, then okay.
	Racism, you have to hold the hierarchy in a society because then you benefit from the constructs that were put in the society.
	So that's the reason why you could be racist.
	So if you're not benefiting from it, then you couldn't be racist from it.
	So if those are the same, then I guess by that definition, no.
	But I would have to do further thought on that.
	I would say no, you can't be sexist to men, and yes, you could be racist to a white person.
	So you can't be sexist towards men?
	No.
	I feel like you just want to be different.
	No.
	I think it depends where you're at, too, right?
	And I feel like.
	I thought she was a based Catholic.
	She was.
	Until she said that.
	Until she said that.
	So wait, you can't be sexist towards.
	I guess it depends on where you're at, right?
	So like if you're in Trinidad, you could be racist towards a white person.
	Okay, so location matters.
	Yes.
	Well, I feel because I've been like, well, where I'm at, where I stay, there's like people that are like racist to white people.
	They could, they probably.
	But okay, but what, but it seems like you acknowledge that you can be racist towards white people, but I'm trying to delve into the can't be sexist towards men.
	I just feel like I don't know how to explain myself that well.
	I don't know.
	I just feel like you can't.
	Like, I just don't think so.
	You know, I don't know how to explain.
	How might somebody be sexist towards a woman?
	Can I skip?
	Skip?
	You want to skip?
	Yeah, I'm getting it.
	Would it be easier to do it in Spanish?
	It's okay.
	No?
	Can you say it in Spanish?
	I can understand you.
	Oh.
	Can you say?
	You speak Spanish?
	No, not at all.
	I was going to wait for her to do the whole thing in Spanish and then tell her I didn't speak Spanish.
	I just thought that would be hilarious.
	You can't skip unless you're men.
	I just thought it would be funny.
	You can go.
	But it didn't work out.
	Madison.
	That's how you can be sexist.
	It didn't matter.
	That's how you can be sexist towards Asian.
	There we go.
	Exactly.
	Yes and yes.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And yeah, absolutely.
	Yes to both.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yes to both.
	For sure.
	Yes to both.
	So, okay, we obviously, clearly, there's a few people who disagree here on both of these.
	Let's talk it out here.
	Let's see what we can arrive at.
	I have a quick question, maybe to kick it off.
	When you say, I understand, I think kind of like your general argument is to say white people have maybe like institutional or systemic power, and you can't be racist unless you have that power.
	Okay.
	That's what I was saying.
	But you could be bigoted.
	For sure.
	Okay.
	Morally, is being bigoted and being racist the same?
	Well.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Like, are they the equivalent?
	So if you're bigoted towards somebody or you're racist towards somebody, is one worse than the other?
	Can you define what the definitions are for?
	Well, for you, bigoted would just mean you're doing what the white person would be doing to the black person that's racist in reverse, but that can't be racist, so you're calling it bigoted.
	so that's how i would describe that phenomenon but i think that so like let's say let's say um if somebody said the n-word towards a black person you would consider that racist right um If a white dude said like the hard R N word to I would consider him to be racist.
	Right.
	So that would be, so he would be racist.
	But if the reverse happened and they said like, you know, cracker.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You would just say that that's bigoted, right?
	Well, the thing is, is that when you, I mean, sure, but I think the difference is that when you call someone a cracker, they could be like, oh, you're offending me, but it's not going to stop them from moving forward, where historically the other word does.
	Yeah, I get, okay, I understand the argument there.
	But what I'm asking is, are they morally equivalent or is one worse than the other?
	Because I associate racism with violence, for me, yeah, but I mean, bigotry could lead to violence.
	For sure, but I don't associate them.
	Like, I just, I don't, like, they might be, that's why I asked you what your definition is.
	Yeah, well, I mean, by your definition, if somebody was doing the racial thing in reverse, but you can't call it racism because there's no systemic power.
	That's a good word.
	Right.
	They could definitely be doing that and have done it for violent reasons.
	Right.
	So the association is definitely there, right?
	So as far as a moral equivalency goes, I'm just trying to figure out how is one worse or more immoral than the other one.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, it's for me, that would still be a negative, yes.
	Yeah, but are they equally immoral?
	Or is one more immoral than the other?
	I think it would depend on the action.
	Like, if you call me the N-word and I call you a cracker, I think yours probably would be more moral than mine.
	Should we say the C word?
	Is that wrong?
	I feel like we got it.
	I think you can't be racist.
	You can't be racist.
	We should probably say the C word.
	I'm also white, so I think that's what I'm saying.
	Right, well, you can't do that on the bottom.
	It might be.
	Yeah, that might be the same thing.
	I didn't know.
	She didn't be pickleball fools.
	Let's just be careful.
	Yeah, so you think that the racism in that point is worse than the bigotry.
	It's morally worse.
	Because of the history that comes with it, I probably would feel that way.
	But what's interesting about this, and this is why I asked this, for any other action that I can think of, and I've thought about this a lot, if there's any other action which comes up that you just kind of rename the thing, which is the same exact thing as the other thing, you just don't give it the same qualifier.
	They're always equally immoral.
	I can't think of a single one that I can make that application to where it's not equally as bad because we're basically just calling it something else, even though it's exactly the same set of actions.
	Can you think of any?
	Like, for instance, if a husband cheated and a wife cheated, that's equally bad, right?
	But if a woman hurt a dog and a man hurt a dog, that's equally bad, right?
	But if a white person is racist and a black person is racist, you say bigotry for the black person being racist, that's not equally bad.
	I don't think it's not, I think that when someone's being negative, I just, it's already bad.
	Like, I won't encourage that.
	But with the history that comes with it, there's just even like epigenetics, like there's certain like feelings you'll even get that's going to be deeper rooted.
	And the connotation that comes with it is just going to be more like, for instance, if someone calls me fat, I can decide to give that word, like, I can decide to give that word meaning and that could hurt my feelings.
	Or I could be like, oh, it doesn't really matter.
	And I feel like when you're white and you get called that, you have the choice of being like, oh, it doesn't really matter.
	And when you're black, you don't really get that choice.
	What prevents you from having that choice?
	The way you feel about the word, how the word, the history of the word, the history of the things that you're saying.
	The way you feel is not a choice.
	But the way you feel is still going to be affected by what happened.
	Yeah, that's true, but isn't how you feel the choice.
	It's still going to be affected by what happened.
	Yeah, but I don't understand, though, because what you said earlier, just like seconds ago, was it's not really a choice.
	And I said, why isn't it a choice?
	You said, because it's how you feel.
	And I said, isn't how you feel a choice?
	You say, yes.
	I mean, the choice, it's not really a choice as far as like the history that already comes with the word.
	So like that's already a staple.
	There wasn't people being murdered based on the C word.
	There wasn't people being our word based on the C word.
	There wasn't whole civilizations being wiped out based on the C word, but there was based on the N word.
	So I'm more curious about the sexist thing, though.
	Wait, I want to say one thing.
	Kind of an analogy.
	I'm not saying I subscribe to this, but I think the argument is more like it's not like one person hitting another.
	They see it more like if certain races have been subject to like systemic discrimination, they see it more like you've already been hit 10 times.
	And if one more hit is going to hurt you more than someone who has never been hit, you will be charged differently for that.
	So I think that's how they.
	But how come you don't ascribe to that?
	Um.
	Because I don't know if every single person is carrying that like historic load.
	I'm just saying that's the argument.
	Right.
	So they don't have to be able to do that.
	So in other words, what she's saying, and this is a good point.
	If somebody came over, let's say, who was not in the United States, let's say for more than six months, right?
	You would agree with me that that word would have to impact them less than, right?
	Yeah, it does, actually.
	Yeah, so I mean, if it does, then does that mean that you can be, or that person, if that particular person, could they be racist to white people?
	For sure.
	For sure.
	Because I mean, depending on where they're there, they're so black people.
	So then black people can be racist towards white people.
	I never said they couldn't.
	My statement was that it depends on where they're located.
	Well, they're located here.
	Right.
	But if they're not from here, if they're from Dominican Republic, then them being out here and them being out there is going to be different.
	But they're still black people, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, well, then black people can here be racist to white people.
	Not if they're, for me, my understanding of the word racist means that you have the systematic benefit hierarchy.
	And so that's my understanding of the word racist.
	I have a question on that.
	That would really still be the bottom of the.
	I do have one question.
	You're talking about a hierarchy, right?
	So for example, could, let's say when Barack Obama was president, could he have a racist view against a white homeless person?
	The president of the United States, who's arguably the most powerful person in the world, could he have a racist view on, say, a white homeless person?
	I guess, yeah.
	Is that, I don't know if that's a good.
	I don't understand.
	I don't know.
	Well, I guess that makes sense because the person that sits atop the hierarchy is black.
	Therefore, during his administration, white people could not have been racist against black people, but black people could have been racist against white people because he sat atop the hierarchy.
	The system was still set up by white people.
	Having a police officer subscribing to a white system.
	But the systemic issue.
	I'm asking specifically him as an individual, as a black.
	He's not subscribing to a white system.
	He's still living by the president of the United States.
	He's still a person.
	Who's the most powerful person?
	Also, and we know the president doesn't make the end.
	I mean, there's a whole Congress.
	And there's whole checks and balances on the bottom of the city.
	Do you think a white homeless person has more power and privilege than a black president of the United States?
	I think in some people's eyes, yeah, which is unfortunate.
	White homeless person.
	I think that's why that's racism.
	Like, there's many people, many KKK people are going to appreciate the white homeless person.
	Oh, the power of the people.
	The KKK have no power in this country whatsoever.
	I'm just talking about racism, but that's racism.
	Well, they don't have power, though.
	So, by your definition.
	But they do have power.
	The KKK have the full administration for sure too.
	Hey, Nick, can you pull up the podcast?
	That would be like saying, though, that if there was a white president and the Black Panthers didn't like it, it's the same argument.
	But Black Panthers are not the same, even close to the same kind of group as the KKK.
	Yeah, that's not a dish folder in the future.
	I'm not even disputing that.
	That's historically, factually true.
	You're right about that.
	But it's still the same argument to say the reason that we would value this more still is because there's some people in society who would still value the white bum more than the black president.
	And it's like, okay, but that's going to be true the opposite way, too.
	So that makes no sense.
	The system still only benefits one side.
	I have only mainly, mainly benefits.
	I've got a couple photos that we can react to that are related to this.
	Nick, so I want you to pull up the, I believe these should be ordered the same for both of us.
	They're the third one, fourth one, fifth one, and sixth one.
	The first one starts with CSU V. Do you see it?
	So just load the third, fourth, fifth, sixth.
	Is it a good cookie?
	Man, not that great.
	The cookies are not that great.
	It's taken you like an hour to eat that.
	You got a new people as even.
	Just do one to just get the first one going.
	All right.
	The world, according to a feminist.
	So you got the women.
	Can you make us a little bigger?
	A little bigger?
	Put us on the other corner.
	Corner.
	Just corner us, corner us.
	Corner.
	Is there another corner?
	No, it's this one.
	Okay.
	Just give us, do the small one, please.
	Small, small, small.
	Yeah, and make it bigger.
	Okay.
	The world, according to a feminist, all those, look at those women, and then there's the guy, the homeless guy, privileged.
	Okay, all right.
	That's you have to understand, though, that all of the systems are set up for him.
	Yeah, apparently.
	They are, and the fact that he failed is incredible.
	Oh, my God.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I guess if it worked like that, I mean, like, just no notes.
	Well, hold on.
	First off, there's affirmative action for women.
	So that's a system that benefits women.
	Thank God.
	What system helps men?
	It's not clear to me.
	Here, pull up.
	There's more.
	There's more.
	The Constitution.
	White male privilege.
	The Communist.
	Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
	Let's be careful there.
	All right.
	What in the Constitution benefits white men specifically?
	Created equal.
	Wait, does that not include black men?
	What do you guys think about this?
	This is a time.
	Does anybody know the sign that's not the same?
	Men were three-fourths of men, and black men became a menu.
	If you want to talk about the intent, it also didn't include.
	We'll come back to it.
	It included some white men.
	That's it.
	So if we talk about the intent of the founding fathers, the intent, and you can go to Thomas Jefferson's letters to specific individuals talking about how he wanted to make the language in the Constitution more broad to include literally every single person.
	Well, he was an abolitionist.
	Yeah, and so exactly.
	He was an abolitionist.
	He hated slavery, and he actively tried to release all of his slaves, but was legally not allowed to do so until he died, in which he did.
	So there is this Pervasive verbiage in usually the left side of the political spectrum that likes to paint the founding fathers as extremely racist and writing the Constitution as something to oppress minorities and oppress the specific gender, so women, which is not the case.
	You have them with the intent to release those people of those systemic oppressions that they experienced in other countries.
	So, like in England, I mean religious oppression, the slave trade, all of those things.
	They wrote the verbiage in the Constitution so that eventually we would get to a point where we sit in here today where people would be able to read that verbiage and see all men are created equal.
	And we can sit here and know they meant all men are created equal.
	There's some more photos.
	You didn't even see that second photo.
	Nick, if you can pull up the photo, thank you, Kate, for the 10 memberships.
	White, white, we often hear male privilege, white privilege.
	You know what?
	I think every feminist should watch All Quiet on the Western Front and then decide if there's male privilege.
	Wait, there's more photos.
	We got more photos.
	that's the d-day landing that was i don't know if that's i mean to be fair to that one there was a lot of black men who fought in world war ii Absolutely.
	That is true.
	I'm not sure.
	Yes, there were.
	There was the Harlem Hellfighters and World War I. Nick, pull up the, please.
	Oh, there's this chat here.
	I'll just read.
	They have done the studies on the DNA test.
	Wait, no, no, no, no.
	Okay, just pull up the photo.
	I'll read it later.
	The world, according to a feminist, oppressed, privileged.
	Yeah, that's also true.
	There's actually a lot of truth.
	The theme of these photos is just the complete degradation of nuance.
	They just lack nuance in its entirety because the whole aspect of oppression versus privilege, when you speak about privilege, people like to hyper-focus on the standard definition of privilege being about how much money you have, how much access you have to resources, things like that.
	Wherein privilege, much like much of the English language, is a word that can have multiple meanings.
	And in this context, privilege is more about the societal, systematic aspect, which is a generality and not down to the individual.
	And these are focusing on the individual stereotypes and archetypes.
	Well, ecological fallacy.
	Everyone started talking at once.
	Are you basically calling it an ecological fallacy?
	I don't want to say yes because I'm not sure what that means to me.
	When you take the individual and then you attribute it to the general public.
	Okay, well, then I would say yes.
	I'm just not familiar with the term.
	Are you talking about apex fallacy?
	No, it's the ecological.
	Ecological?
	Ecological.
	It's the ecological fallacy.
	Okay.
	Well, okay, I can see how the word derives.
	Yeah, okay.
	That makes sense to me.
	Yeah, it sounds very good.
	Well, here, pull up the last photo and then we got the last one.
	I think there's one more.
	We got one more.
	Scroll up, make it bigger.
	Yep.
	So, I don't know.
	A lot of truth in that one, too.
	Stop oppressing me.
	So, you know, you know.
	Male privilege.
	And he even apologizes about something he didn't do wrong.
	Because class privilege and oppression is not about race, but they all are factors within each other.
	The point isn't that he's at work.
	The point is the kind of work he's doing.
	The kind of work he's doing is not the kind of work that women do pretty much ever, anywhere at any time for any reason.
	That's the privilege.
	So the privilege is, are you systematically oppressed while your sewers are taken care of for you, while you have air conditioning, while you live in modernity and all modern technology and every dangerous fucking job on planet Earth is done by men.
	Is that oppressive?
	Having a baby is a pretty dangerous job or something.
	No, it's not.
	It's a very safe job.
	How are you going to say that?
	Because I can look at infant mortality rates from pregnant women and the mortality rates of the mothers, a very safe job.
	Very, very safe for women to have.
	And respecting the differences is okay.
	Like, you're doing that.
	That's your job.
	And then we've got our own job.
	Like, that's okay.
	Yeah, you do.
	You have a job, but you demand to have also egalitarianism inside society between the sexes.
	And the thing is, is like your job is clearly far less valuable than our job because without us maintaining the entirety of the infrastructure for which women's pampered asses can even exist inside of society, they would collapse.
	And how do I know this?
	Because I have 2,200 years of history to look at to watch the progression of them literally folding like cheap chairs and being passed between enemy armies like it was nothing.
	They were literally chattel if we decided that they were.
	And instead, we have massive amounts of technological advancements which have allowed for women to even exist in modernity.
	And instead of being praised for it, men are treated like absolute garbage.
	I think you guys are great.
	Brian, you should have brought up my video that I had responding to this.
	Wait, I had a video.
	I posted a video a woman was asked who did she think was better or who was stronger or what were women better at than men.
	And she said everything.
	Everything.
	And I responded to that.
	Wait, was it on the show?
	No, no, I posted, I had responded.
	Is it on your Instagram or Tokyo?
	Yeah, it's like a one-minute reaction.
	Is it pretty.
	We can pull it up.
	I can send it.
	I can send it to the DM to the whatever DM.
	Yeah, or we can just try to search for it.
	It's on your Instagram?
	Yeah, it's on my Instagram.
	Is it pretty close to the top?
	It should be.
	Nick, just pull up his Instagram.
	That's probably the easiest.
	You can also send the actual video to the whatever Instagram, and Nick can also pull it up that way.
	Oh, yeah, I found it already.
	Okay.
	Oh, he's already got it.
	Yeah, you can send it through.
	He's on it.
	He is on it.
	Good talk.
	Good talk.
	Okay.
	So what do you guys think about birth control?
	Show of hands, who's on birth control?
	Just curious.
	Anybody on birth control?
	I've never been on birth control.
	Anybody?
	Birth control?
	Birth control?
	I did the IED once.
	I'll just send it Nick.
	All right, Nick, if you can pull that up.
	That's not a funny thing.
	Oh, while Nick is pulling that up.
	Oh, hold on.
	We have very fucking awful.
	Theota cost donated $200.
	Both the KKK and Black Panthers were co-opted by the FBI, COINTELPRO, in order to divide the races.
	They have a lot in common.
	Oh, Theotokos.
	Thank you, man.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	It's actually a pretty good point.
	Now that I think about it.
	All right.
	We have.
	Hold on.
	I'll just show this one really quick and then we'll pull up the video.
	We have Joe the Giant.
	They have done studies on the DNA test conversation from earlier.
	It showed 33% of children are not with their real fathers and the fathers have no clue.
	I just want to, just so we can be factual here, the numbers that you're referencing, it's not looking at the entire population.
	The study is they're looking at the cohort of men who have seeked to get paternity testing.
	So, of course, that's going to likely yield a higher.
	They see in their partner attendance, their behaviors, that would lead them to indicate that there's been right.
	And I don't think it's 33% among all married couples, but of the men who do challenge paternity, it is uh, I don't know if I'm just gonna take your word for it that it is 33, but yeah uh Nick, you got the video.
	But that would show though, that it's, it's likely, vastly underreported.
	Yes yeah absolutely, absolutely it does.
	It does give up me reason to be like, okay, I want a paternity test.
	Oh, hold on, hold on, we'll just.
	Andrew, how can you say having a baby is a safe job?
	Almost every woman I know that's had a baby has ended up in the hospital because of the pregnancy.
	what was I thinking safest job ever sorry most unsafe they all ended up in the hospital all right we can pull up the video so safe the hospital wouldn't be needed but okay I mean it's not you can have your babies at home we did it for thousands of years Yeah, the infant mortality rate was usually due to infections and post post mortem right, and that's what the hospital prevents.
	Yeah okay, but you can prevent it now too, because you have this cool thing called an alcohol pad and you understand how infections work, and so the thing is, it's like plenty of women go ahead and have babies at home and the post-mortem not really a problem.
	I would actually be fascinated to see, like in the?
	U.s now, for the people who choose to have their babies at home, what is the infant mortality rate compared to having it in the hospital.
	Well, they still have pretty well, have probably a midwife too.
	They're not gonna be interested to know that midwife really does it by themselves, especially with, especially with like current legislation, like we would be held liable if things went wrong.
	Well no, all i'm saying is like I just want to like given like uh, having solute, like medical solutions at home, like I know, I know people specifically who choose to have home birth, if I ever, I want to yeah yeah, so like I just i'm intrigued to know what that statistic would be, just so I could be able to like to see if anything's changed, or like what.
	Yeah, I get yeah, I mean I?
	I agree, I would be interested too.
	Did you mean postpartum instead of post-mortem?
	Oh yeah, post-partem.
	Yeah, just wanted to.
	I saw some chats that just wanted to clarify, um okay, but is this the one?
	Yeah yeah, i'll just break it down and ask a simple question.
	Yeah, audio would be helpful.
	You'll probably need a re-ref.
	Can you make it a little bigger?
	Also uh, Instagram's so fucking whack.
	Their audio player it's fucking dog shit.
	Or their video player, my bad.
	Women are better than men at everything.
	Everything guys are super.
	Now i'm not gonna respond to this all crazy.
	But what we are gonna do is create a scenario.
	Let's say that everything that a male human has ever discovered built, constructed just a little bit thought of innovated renovated created gone, obliterated instantaneously everywhere on the face of the planet technological advancements transportation, the power grid infrastructure stem, medicine all of it gone eradicated, not to mention law and order and protection.
	I'm talking Dog Breeds, Newton's laws of motion and energy held, a Pythagorean Theorem gone.
	Even the animals, including the predators that men drove to extinction, reintroduced.
	And now women have to reconstruct society from the ground up without the aid of a man or anything that a man invented.
	That includes instructions as well, and women have to accomplish this, either pregnant or menstruated.
	Men are incapable of doing anything to help.
	Now, what becomes of society and humanity within just one year thing Okay.
	Okay.
	Also, we had a chat here that came in from Theotokos.
	Thank you, man.
	Lumber workers have 10x higher death rates than mothers.
	Everything is a lie.
	Q, did you want to add anything to the video?
	No, no, it was all laid out right there.
	Okay.
	So this is a thought experiment, and it's an excellent thought experiment.
	And so I've made similar thought experiments as well, and so have thousands of other people who are just kind of saying, you had a wand and all the men were gone tomorrow for whatever reason.
	How could society maintain itself absent men?
	And when you really start to break down the thought experiment, you start to dive into all the jobs that they do, everything that they're into, the distinctions in just skill base, not to mention the physiological differences, like the fact that women really can't do a lot of the men's jobs.
	That's one of the big things that is a big lie, too.
	Women really can't.
	They're not even physiologically equipped to be outside for long periods of time doing things like roofing, asphalt laying.
	Their body can't even regulate temperature the same way.
	So what happens is society after one year to answer to your thought experiment is completely destroyed and 99% of the life on it is gone with it.
	That's what I think.
	Or human life.
	I think animal life flourishes.
	It's got plenty to heat now.
	That's why I say the predators that we drove to extinction reintroduced.
	Yep.
	Farah?
	I thought you had thoughts on this topic.
	I said you could be sexist towards men.
	Oh, what?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	No, no, but what Andrew just said.
	I guess I would hesitate.
	You put too much emphasis on it.
	You dunked on me.
	You did a little clip on me because I was like, I said, oh yeah, shit would hit the fan if all men disappeared.
	You get so mad at me.
	I'm not mad at you.
	I'm not mad at you.
	I'm not mad.
	I'm just reeling you into the conversation.
	Now that you've had six months to digest our argument, you want to bring it back up.
	What do you, what?
	Wasn't that six months ago?
	How's that relevant at all?
	I don't know why it's fresh on your mind.
	I'm literally talking about the topic at hand.
	It just seems kind of fresh.
	Yes, I'm deeply, I'm deeply triggered by six months waiting.
	It's just like you have a show three times a week with 10 new people and it just seemed like, I don't know, elephants memory.
	It kind of seems like any compliment that he remembers it even after doing shows where there's 10 people.
	I'm just accusing him, but yeah.
	I mean, I would agree with you.
	I think men are generally undervalued.
	And I think feminists do kind of absorb and regurgitate a lot of buzzwords without understanding where those arguments actually came from in feminist literature.
	I would hesitate to put too much emphasis in male bronze because the labor force, you know what I mean, is shifting towards valuing brains over bronze.
	And I think that's why we're destiny argument.
	I didn't get it from him.
	Yeah, but he's wrong.
	I didn't get it.
	And just like you're wrong about it, it's actually not.
	The fact of the matter is we're not really able to replace Braun very well at all.
	For instance, where's all of our robotic roofers?
	Have you ever seen one?
	I'm sure we'll get there soon.
	Oh, wait, really?
	How?
	How do you think that you're going to get robot roofers to go to people's individual houses and patch roofs?
	We have like military robots now.
	I wasn't even just saying that.
	Military robots.
	I was just saying that men should be valued more.
	I was more so just saying that like I think the reason men are struggling partly is because they're feeling like a sense of cultural redundancy because a lot of the labor market is focusing on brains over bronze and women are out of business.
	Nope, what actually happened was that women were told to go to college.
	College was highly overvalued.
	And now as everybody can do it, the market is becoming inundated because it's tailored to the lowest common denominator.
	Meaning, if you lower the standards so that everybody can do it, right?
	The standards necessarily become lower to accommodate the most amount of people.
	So more and more people got a college degree.
	The market's completely saturated with it, but it wasn't before.
	So women accelerated.
	But you'll see that that gap, it's closing.
	It's closing quickly.
	And you see the gap in pay with trades between even STEM fields, that's closing quickly too.
	It's going to continue to close because we can't actually get rid of the big thing, which is the brawn.
	The thing women can't bring to the table, which is they can't do road work.
	They can't do roofing.
	They can't do any of the really intrinsic or hard bronze-based labor.
	Don't you think a lot of those jobs have diminished over time because now things are getting built and they're like architecture is sustaining for a long time.
	So I feel like those jobs are becoming smaller.
	Top two jobs that you would say for men that you would want immigrants to come in and do.
	What do you think?
	I don't understand the wait.
	What do you think that male immigrants, when they come in for work, you would want more of them to come in and work and expand the economy?
	What would you say the male immigrants usually do?
	Usually do?
	I genuinely don't know.
	What would you think?
	You're in California and there's kind of something famous.
	Yeah, the general stereotype of what immigrants who come in from south of the border are doing is what?
	Dishwashing?
	No.
	Something paid under the table.
	They work in farms.
	They literally work on farms.
	It's like the most famous thing California ever is.
	But even that number is going down.
	Like it used to be 90% of Americans are farmers.
	And my point is like now it's shrinking.
	It's much more far.
	Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But my point to you, Bach, is that it's an ever-expanding field, a necessary, ever-expanding field because people need to eat.
	Wait, expanding?
	Yes, because the amount of people that are necessary to feed the amount of people necessarily grows.
	So it's expanding, expanding, expanding.
	Now, with the birth rate contraction, we might have problems with that later, and we will.
	But what I'm saying is that with that expansion of people comes the expansion of necessity of houses and all those other things that grow the GDP, that progressives like you and Destiny would love to have happen so much, which means that, no, you're going to have to actually expand the brawn.
	And that's what you're going to see.
	His projection, totally wrong.
	And that projection there of eliminating the brawn or moving away from brawn, that's not true.
	We're moving towards it again.
	There was a limited market saturation.
	Now that's changing again.
	I genuinely have not heard him say that.
	Like I do my own research and reading.
	Come on, Farah.
	I genuinely don't.
	I'm kidding.
	I'm joking.
	That was a funny joke.
	No, I just feel like I always have to wipe his piss off of me because I feel like people think, because we're friends, I like absorb his arguments.
	But like, we do not co-sign on each other's arguments.
	All right, well, that's a destiny argument, just so you know.
	Okay.
	I'm not saying that you got it from him.
	I'm just saying something I hear him regurgitate when he's arguing.
	I mean, we probably read some of the same stuff, but yeah, like I said, I wasn't trying to undervalue the necessity for like bronze and like manual labor.
	I was more so saying that like I think just treating the value of masculinity as just being synonymous with bronze, I feel like is just only responding to like a very marginal percent of like what men are doing is my point because that's going down.
	Yeah, we're not really associating masculinity with brawn as much as talking about the necessity of brawn in society.
	Butler donated $100.
	Brian, how can you let the girl in red tell you 10 men ran a train on her without mentioning condoms do not protect from genital herpes?
	And she definitely has it.
	I've been in the CDC incoming nuke.
	Isn't that the dude who always makes the every show?
	He's about late.
	You're a little late, Jay Butler.
	I was wondering where you were.
	The nuke?
	Hold on.
	Okay, there.
	There it is.
	All right.
	The nuke has been sent.
	All right.
	Here, we actually have a couple videos kind of related to this.
	Nick, if you can go in the videos tab, the men tab, Iron Workers One, Oil Rig, Power Line, Snow, Roughnecks, and then Electrical Worker.
	Why don't you pull those up?
	We also got one.
	Did we do the Burj Khalifa one?
	Nah, it's okay.
	We don't have to do that one.
	If you can get all those pulled up, Videos Men, and then Iron Workers, Roughnecks, Electrical Worker.
	I'll show you, but I don't see men.
	It's podcast videos.
	No, you're in the wrong.
	It's podcast videos men in the Dropbox folder.
	So, hold on.
	While you do that, I'm going to get some.
	I'll do some chats.
	Nick, can you pull up the OBS, please, so we can.
	Oh, wait, hold on, I'll come back to that.
	Okay.
	Being cheeks, does far aware frames without glasses?
	Liberals are not intellectuals with your social media talk on sex.
	You keep outing yourself as being non-virgin.
	You can keep up the act for simps, but real man, real man, see through the BS, not real men.
	Also, is your dental hygiene bad?
	I never see you smile.
	I feel like I smile sometimes.
	If I was trying to keep up some act of being a virgin, why would I be currently turning out content of skits where I talk about having a high body count?
	Like if it was an act, why would I be putting out the content that he says counteracts me being a virgin?
	It just doesn't make any sense.
	Like, hide out right in the open.
	Right?
	They're just like referring to like skits I put out.
	Yeah.
	They're not taking in the context.
	Okay.
	It's Iron Workers, Power Line, Snow, Roughnecks, Electrical Worker, Oil Rig.
	That's five videos.
	They're all kind of right in close proximity to the other.
	Here, okay.
	While you do that, Bean Cheeks, the KKK does have power, but in the form of the Democrats.
	If you do not know that, look up the history on the party that created the KKK and then tell me if you are still a left-leaning Democrat.
	If so, you fully support the KKK as they oppress blacks from beating cheeks.
	There you have it, folks.
	Thank you.
	Cheeks appreciated.
	Brothers.
	We have Llama Desky, Mayor C. Baku for the Canadian 50.
	I've worked in tech for years.
	Braun will not be replaced because it's still cheaper to hire a man roofer than to operate and maintain an advanced robot to do the job to the same level.
	It's actually easier to replace the simpler brain jobs.
	That's very true.
	Yep.
	Okay.
	Interesting.
	Thank you.
	Thank you there.
	You got them, Nick?
	Iron Workers app, Iron Workers, Empire State Building.
	Those we pulled up, and then you said Steel Workers, local steel workers.
	And then what else did you want?
	Wait, read them one more time?
	I got Iron Workers.
	One.
	What?
	Wait.
	Are you in the Videos Men folder?
	Yeah.
	You said Iron Workers, I thought.
	Yeah, pull it up for me.
	No, you're podcast videos men.
	Podcast videos men.
	Podcast videos, man.
	Come on, Nick.
	Come on.
	I said it multiple times.
	Okay, here.
	We have another chat here.
	Modest Acama.
	We know some of the panel doesn't live in reality already.
	Panel, what is a woman?
	I guess we'll go around the table on this.
	What is a woman?
	I feel like I'm walking into a trap with this crew of people here.
	You're s***.
	You said trap.
	But I would say being a woman is more than biological.
	I think that's female versus male.
	I think being a woman is an identity and something that, you know, I don't quite know how to explain it.
	just feel like it's something that, yeah, I don't know.
	I'm blanking, actually.
	I'm sorry.
	You're asking me.
	I'm going to pass for now.
	What?
	A woman, someone was born with the correct chromosomes.
	Correct.
	That makes them a woman.
	I agree with Misty.
	Misty.
	A woman is someone that is born.
	You know what a woman is.
	Fash the Stampede donated $100.
	Oh, there you have it.
	It's an adult female.
	It's not.
	It's not.
	You're wrong.
	It's an adult human female.
	Adult human female.
	Okay.
	There you have it, Modest Common.
	There you have it.
	Nick, do you have the videos?
	That's an awesome name, though, Vash Stampede.
	Trigon.
	Excellent.
	Yes, Trigon.
	Good anime.
	Make it one bigger, I think.
	Could be zoomed in.
	One bigger?
	Well, can you start from the beginning?
	We got some iron workers here.
	Wait, just mute the audio.
	Just mute the audio.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Scary.
	It's scary, right?
	Yeah.
	I see two men, probably.
	All right.
	Okay.
	And then you have the operators.
	Next video, Nick, you can pause that one.
	Oh, I just wanted Iron Workers 1.
	Which videos do you have pulled up?
	Just X out of that.
	Tell me which ones you have pulled up.
	Iron Workers 2, and then Oil Rig, and then the last one was.
	Okay.
	I need, here, we already looked at Iron Workers 1.
	I need electrical worker, oil rig, powerline snow, roughnecks.
	Just, can you get one going?
	One of them going?
	Yeah, yeah, I have over here.
	Such a juicy after show.
	it sounded sarcastic all right we got look at the there's a look at that you can Maybe one bigger so it's full screen.
	I think you could probably go one more.
	Is it moving or just the ocean around it?
	Both.
	Yeah, I think it is.
	Currently, it's moving.
	It's probably all men on there.
	Okay.
	Well, I think the camera's moving.
	Next one.
	No, so the actual platform itself is moving.
	Yeah.
	It's something.
	So, yeah, no, it's center of mass is below the surface of the ocean.
	So it doesn't like wobble side to side, but it goes up and down.
	Go ahead, Nick.
	You can next.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Oh, that's...
	No, no, no, no.
	All right.
	All right, so here's a guy on a power line.
	I believe he's in, I believe this is in China.
	And it's snowing.
	And he's connected to it.
	It's probably, what, 100-plus-foot drop?
	Probably more.
	I can't really crap myself.
	That's so scary.
	And he's connected.
	Oh, is he disconnecting himself from his...
	Oh, right.
	I don't know.
	I can't.
	Yeah.
	Oh, he's disconnecting himself.
	Reconnect himself on the other side.
	Yeah.
	How far down does that look?
	That's pretty far.
	Yeah, hundreds of five.
	So, oh, he is somewhat, you know, in the snow.
	Okay, he's fixing something on the power line.
	Okay, next one.
	We got another one.
	We got another one.
	We got another one here.
	What do we got?
	Got the, you know, the other ones.
	You know, the other ones, definitely.
	these men are like willfully doing these jobs or are they like just they just have Yeah, they pay really well.
	It's not even clear to me if they pay all that well, but here, electrical work or roughnecks.
	In China, I don't know, man.
	They might be forced to pay for it.
	It's more like they got a snipe around the ridge, and if you don't do your job, you might not see your family.
	That's how it looks.
	That's so sad.
	I mean, they gave him a safety harness.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, it'll be fine.
	Yeah.
	A loop around the beef might fall off of is not skip to like a minute 25.
	Even that would break something.
	Make it better.
	Oh my gosh.
	Especially in the cold.
	Play it.
	Skip forward just a little bit.
	Yeah, that's good.
	Oh, my gosh.
	So he's on a helicopter fixing a power line, I guess.
	And I guess he's now attaching himself.
	Power line.
	Okay.
	All right.
	There's that.
	Okay, all right.
	And then just the roughnecks one.
	Make it.
	Okay.
	My god, bro.
	And then skip for, I think.
	You know, some of that.
	All right.
	I'm into it.
	These guys look hot.
	Oh, my God.
	Skip forward a little bit to see the.
	Alright, so this is they're thrown around heavy machinery.
	If their hands get caught in it, they lose the hand.
	You know, all right.
	They're doing that for, you know, what, 10 hours a day or something.
	So not sure why I brought those videos up.
	I would love to know.
	I don't know.
	It's because we were just talking about infrastructure.
	Yeah.
	Well, so as society increases and the amount of technology that's needed to sustain society as it increases, you're going to need more guys just like that to be able to maintain like the power grid to maintain how much oil is necessary.
	So as we are increasing our electrical need, so when we're starting to incorporate all electric cars, so as we're moving to more electric, then okay, whatever.
	Butler donated $100.
	Brian, she's giving you the angry herpes stare.
	Be careful, this strain is airborne, possibly deadly.
	It could be the end of California.
	Maybe it's the only way Gavin Newsom can be stopped.
	Hashtag herpes.
	Hashtag herpes.
	Hello?
	Oh my gosh.
	Is that the stare?
	Is that the stare he's talking about?
	I don't know.
	I wasn't looking at you.
	He's got to be staring at her to know that she's staring.
	Let's just.
	Yeah, Jay Butler, stop staring.
	I just, I don't really want to entertain the you literally have a fan.
	He's paying money.
	Yeah, I know.
	Like, he's, yeah, he hasn't only fans if you want to follow.
	Maybe you can.
	I actually am an ex model, but I do have an Instagram.
	I'm very sad about that.
	So if you want to go watch my vlog, yeah, Jay Butler, slide into the DMs.
	Or do what you got to do, man.
	All right.
	Theoticus, what is a woman requires knowing there's a difference in the sexes.
	Women will have to rescind their current false exaltation by the managerial class.
	Women are always used for revolutions.
	Look up.
	There you have it, folks.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Theotokos.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	All right, guys.
	I think we're.
	Did you have a little more to add?
	No, it's okay.
	I mean, I think I got my point across.
	Okay.
	Any final thoughts before I wrap up here, fine folk?
	Thanks for having us.
	Thank you for coming.
	That was an interesting conversation.
	Can I read what Gabby wrote now?
	What did she write?
	The apology?
	No, it's not.
	Oh, what did she write?
	Can I read it?
	She sent you more text.
	Wait.
	Oh, God.
	I'm curious what it is.
	This is not what you okay.
	Ready?
	Uh-oh.
	She said, read that out loud.
	Okay.
	The five guys I asked to be my boyfriend in the last episode.
	Wait, what?
	I don't care.
	I don't care.
	No, you won't have her.
	I don't care about that.
	She should have just stuck to her commitment to come on the show instead of last minute taking.
	Imagine how, like, if she had said a week ago, hey, I'm getting a book, I'm going to take a different gig.
	She didn't know until the day of we'll be on like hold and then we'll get the booking that day.
	And you got to tell your agent yes, and they drop you.
	And respectfully, I mean, you would probably say this, do the same.
	What do you mean?
	Her agent would drop her if she had to do it.
	Yeah, because basically they know, because like she get a $1,500 job, you say no to the job.
	That's their 10% that they're missing out on, 20%.
	Yeah, but as somebody who's familiar with the entertainment industry, you as the talent have the agency to pick which gigs you do and do not do.
	Right, but when the agency gets you a gig and you already said yes to it and then you book it, then you have to say yes to it.
	But she had already committed.
	We had booked this with her like a month.
	I don't know exactly when, but a month in advance.
	I don't know what it really was.
	Right, but if you've already agreed to be on a show, you should hold to your commitment because that should have, like, I get that she wants to make like a $1,500.
	In any case, I would argue that the right thing to do would be to say, even though she stands to make more, supposedly more money.
	No, you don't.
	Yeah.
	You said if it's a last-minute thing, she's perfectly within her right to say, I've already made a commitment.
	That's not how it works.
	Of course, that's how it works.
	The booking, the booking was last-minute.
	Bro, you, as the talent, you're the king.
	You are the king.
	Your agent, no, no, your agent does not get to dictate if you take a shoot or not.
	If they're a good agency, you don't want to risk losing them.
	No, that's not how it works.
	They work for you.
	They do work for you.
	They work for you.
	You're the talent.
	Who's had an agent for over 10 years?
	I'm telling you, that is how it works.
	I don't know how long you've had an agent for me.
	I don't have an agent.
	So then we're this.
	I do my own thing.
	I do my own business.
	All I'm telling you is that I promise you.
	But I've grown up in Southern California my whole life.
	Like, I know, I'm familiar.
	Yeah, like, so it's bullshit.
	It's bullshit.
	Well, I'm here, and I love you.
	Think, well, I do at least want to give you credit because when typically what we have happen, when like a friend group, if one girl cancels, the dominoes just so I'm at least giving you credit for you showing up despite the things I say I'm going to do happens.
	And I appreciate that.
	If I appreciate that.
	I've never done a paid job.
	You would have flaked last minute.
	That's incredibly rude.
	I understand that.
	I would have, but I also probably would have let you know: hey, look, I may be up for a booking this day.
	I cannot, I cannot fully commit.
	I would tell you, probably.
	But I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Well, I wouldn't have.
	I mean, I would have just another day.
	No, well, I would have just booked other people, but it's like if you're letting us know day of, it's not enough time to secure other guests typically.
	You did a great job with everybody.
	Huh?
	You did a great job.
	Okay.
	It's just like.
	I know you're upset.
	I'm sorry.
	And Shannon, the other, like, I would have.
	I know her.
	I know, but it's just like.
	And I offered her a ride, and she told me that she should have at least still come.
	I thought she would.
	She told me that she, I don't remember what she said, something about she wasn't going to be able to make it.
	And I was like, okay.
	Okay.
	I mean, she's full of shit.
	She just probably got cold feet or something.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I don't know her at all.
	No, it's not your fault, but it's just because you decided to bring up Gabby again.
	I thought I could read a lot, Jean.
	I thought you might want to hear about it.
	No, I don't.
	If she would have had the decency and the etiquette to stick to her commitment, then I would have been happy to hear all of her dating hijinks.
	Got you.
	But if she's not here, you don't want to hear it.
	I don't give, frankly, I don't give a fuck.
	I'm not considering her for rebooking.
	I'm not considering Shannon for rebooking because if you're going to do that to us, there's no guarantee that you're not going to just flake last minute again.
	So I cannot consider them again for future shows.
	It's incredibly rude and disrespectful.
	It's what Shannon did is even worse because I still think what Gabby did is bad.
	To just, you've made a commitment.
	Something, just because something better comes along, if you have the opportunity to turn down that other opportunity and it wouldn't sour anything, and whereas it would sour the existing commitment that you have, then I think you ought to stick to the commitment that you made.
	For example, for example, let's say I agreed to meet somebody for a date, and then a hotter chick comes along and says, Brian, I would like to hang out with you on the exact same date that you already have a date.
	This is a hypothetical scenario here.
	Bear in mind.
	I would hold my commitment to that person.
	And then if I wanted to go on the date with the other person, I'd say, maybe there's another time we could go on the date.
	What if they said there was no other time?
	You have incredible integrity, though, that you should be proud of that.
	I guess.
	I mean, it just, whatever the paid gig was, I think it does more.
	It interferes more.
	The harm is better than the gain, I guess.
	Because by flaking last minute on the show, the issues that it causes for our production, I think, is a greater negative than it is a positive.
	Well, okay, whatever.
	It's just, we deal with fucking flakes all the time, and it's super fucking annoying.
	And she didn't, she claimed she had an emergency, but now you're telling me that.
	That would be an emergency.
	An emergency?
	Yeah.
	How's an emergency?
	Well, if you, you mean, we got to do it.
	But when I think, when somebody tells me it's an emergency, I think they're having some medical thing.
	There's something going on with a family member.
	So not only did she flake on her commitment, she also lied about it.
	Which people frequently do.
	Maybe she was lying to me.
	I suspect she's more likely to.
	I'm not lying about it.
	I suspect she's more likely to lie to me than she is to lie to you.
	I mean, I don't know, but I can tell you that I know she felt really badly about it.
	Yes, I'm sure she felt absolutely terrible about it.
	She loves your show.
	She's very excited about it.
	I know, like, she was hyped and very excited.
	She's been checking in and making sure I was going to show up for the longest time because I was like, yeah, I'm going to come, but I had a rehearsal before.
	So I know that her thought process is she was very excited about it.
	It's just like the Shannon girl who's friends with her.
	Shannon was the one who was pushing for us to do another plus size panel, which that completely fell apart.
	Had she been on before?
	I don't know that girl.
	No, she had not been on before, but she reached out to us asking to be on the show.
	And like, it's just shocking to me.
	She wasn't prepared to take a ride with you.
	She was going to ride with Gabby.
	She has her own car.
	I don't believe.
	She has her own car?
	She was going to see Gabby and come to my house.
	Really?
	Bro, there's lies upon lies here because she told me that she was having car trouble.
	Oh, maybe.
	So I don't know what the truth is.
	I don't know what's true.
	What's not?
	Look, anyways, it's just we deal with one of the major issues that we deal with on the show is people being flaky.
	And it just causes so much disruption to our production.
	It's stressful.
	So it's just annoying.
	So, yeah.
	Anyways, I just got tilted because you brought her up.
	So whatever.
	Okay.
	Let me read the final chats.
	And then here we have Trenton.
	Welcome back.
	Madison.
	Show isn't the same without you.
	You ever going to put on that jacket, Farah?
	Let's go grab some coffee sometime.
	Cool.
	All right, we have Pradeep here.
	Pradeep, I don't know what is this, anyone know what currency that is?
	Divorce rates are increasing in 50-50.
	Is because men are insecure of career women, or 50-50 makes people compare deliverables, and no two people can do the same job with the same zeal.
	On contrary, workload, excuse me, workload on housewives is then career woman in comparison.
	Bro, I don't know what the fuck you are saying, dude.
	Thoughts.
	He paid to say it.
	What?
	Can anybody parse what he is saying here?
	Divorce or answer?
	Wait, can you pull up?
	She's like her own.
	She will come here.
	Okay, whatever.
	I'm going to wrap the show.
	I'm going to wrap.
	Okay.
	All right, guys.
	Last call.
	Hit the like button, please, on your way out.
	Twitch, guys, go to twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow.
	Drop us a prime sub if you have one.
	Thank you for whatever.
	Thank you for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you to everyone who super chats, donates, supports the show.
	Thank you to Grid1, LPE, Monstacama, Jay Butler, Nickelodeon.
	Thank you to the wonderful panel.
	Be sure to check out everybody's socials.
	That's linked below.
	Check out Andrew Wilson's channel, The Crucible.
	The link is in the description.
	Check out Q's channel also.
	The link is also in the description.
	Any girls who want to be on the show, DM out whatever on Instagram.
	If you can make it to Santa Barbara, if you're interested in sponsoring the podcast, you can also DM out whatever.
	We'll be live again at 5 p.m. on Tuesday.
	And I think we're also going to be doing another Thursday show.
	It's going to be earlier, though.
	We're going to be doing a debate, debate show.
	So be sure to tune into that.
	Let me just double check here and make sure we're not missing any of our chats or anything.
	I'm just double checking here, guys.
	No, I think we're good.
	Okay.
	Oh, I need to see 07s in the chat, guys.
	07s in the chat.
	Tuesday, 5 p.m. Pacific.
	Got some good stuff coming on Tuesday, guys.
	So be sure to tune in.
	Yeah, good times.
	Okay, guys, we'll see you guys next time.

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