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July 24, 2023 - Viva & Barnes

02:07:37

Interview with Tamara Lich! One of Canada's Many Political Prisoners - Viva Frei Live!

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	I want to end today by speaking directly to kids once again.
	I know many of you are in virtual school again.
	Many of you have made more sacrifices over Christmas, over the holidays, not seeing your friends, not seeing your loved ones.
	This is not easy.
	And I know almost half of kids across this country have gotten their vaccine from ages 5 to 12. There are people who've probably gotten very sick from vaccinations.
	We know there is a risk, a very small risk, one in 5,000 that may get myocarditis, for example.
	Very small risk.
	Please ask your parents if you can get vaccinated.
	Getting vaccinated protects yourself, protects your family, protects your grandparents.
	By the way, I can't listen to this crap anymore.
	Pfizer COVID vaccine.
	Well, we'll stop after this.
	Forget it.
	Can't do it.
	Half of what Justin Trudeau said right now, Right there.
	I think qualifies as misinformation under YouTube's new opaque bullcrap rules.
	Everybody, I'm sorry to start off with that level of torture, but for the torture that the guest today, Tamara Leach, has gone through, we all have to suffer through another minute of Justin Trudeau in order to understand exactly what the hell went down in Canada over the last few years.
	Okay, hold on.
	Sorry, yeah, it's off, Leo.
	I'm not going to do much of an intro because we have a guest.
	She's in the backdrop.
	I've been waiting for this.
	I don't know how it's been close to two years now.
	I've been waiting for this since that, call it famous, call it infamous, call it iconic photograph of Tamara Leach, and I double-checked as to the four variations of the pronunciation of her name.
	Tamara Leach.
	Being arrested, I think it was...
	I'm fairly certain it was a Friday night.
	Cold February Friday night.
	Quiet streets of Ottawa.
	Tamara Leach being handcuffed and hauled off for indefinite detainment.
	And I had to sit here arguing with some of these Trudeau-supporting idiots on Twitter.
	It wasn't indefinite.
	She got out.
	Yeah.
	It's indefinite when you don't know when you're going to get out.
	Pat King went through a lot more than her just saying.
	I've talked a lot about Pat King.
	This is not a victim oppression Olympics right now.
	And Pat King went through less than the coots for.
	It's not a question of that.
	We're living through a period of absolute political insanity that is being normalized, tyranny that is being normalized, tyranny that's being democratized.
	And Tamara Leach is perhaps the most iconic We haven't been able to do this interview for
	the longest of times because as part of Tamara Leach being released from prison.
	From jail, from pretrial detention on non-violent mischief charges.
	She had a totally logical, rational, constitutional prohibition on free speech, prohibition on gathering, going on social media.
	We're going to get into it.
	And if you don't know who Tamara Leach is, you're going to know because my interviews are in-depth.
	We've got some time and we're going to start.
	Start a childhood, as always.
	All right, Tamara, enough of the intro.
	Everyone's trickled in.
	Share the link around.
	Rumble is there.
	You know what to do.
	All right, I'm bringing in the woman of the hour, the person of the hour, the guest of the week, Tamara Leach.
	Tamara?
	Hi.
	At the risk of asking the obvious, how goes the battle?
	It goes.
	It goes well, actually.
	You haven't, I mean, I don't know.
	You seem to always be smiling despite.
	And so it is encouraging, almost inspiring when someone does not lose a smile after having gone through what I know that you've gone through, but the world is going to know in great detail.
	30,000 foot overview before we get into the minutia of the detail of the history that has been your life.
	For those who don't know, who are you?
	Well, my name is Tamara.
	I was a part of a little thing called the Freedom Convoy that happened about a year and a half ago.
	And yeah, I called Chris Barber one day and said, hey, I want to help you guys.
	This is what I can do.
	And boom.
	All right.
	Nobody saw what happened coming, except for those who were planning it all along.
	We're going to start all the way back at the back.
	Are you born and raised in Medicine Hat?
	No, I'm born and raised in Saskatchewan.
	Little towns all in Saskatchewan.
	My dad bought grain for the wheat pole when I was young, and those positions, they moved you around quite a bit.
	I've lived in a few small towns in southern Saskatchewan, and I moved to Medicine Hat in 1998.
	And I asked for permission before we started, how old are you?
	And this is only, it's relevant to the story, people.
	It's not just, you know, curiosity.
	Oh, yeah.
	I'll be 51 in September, September 19th.
	51 in September, born and raised in Canada.
	And I say 51, you are, unless I'm mistaken, you're not just a mother, but a grandmother as well.
	Yes.
	Yes, I am a grandma.
	This becomes relevant.
	For what I'll call the inhumanity of what you went through.
	How many generations has your family been in Canada?
	And where are they from?
	Where were your parents from?
	What did your parents do?
	Well, I was adopted.
	So my birth parents were from Cold Lake, the Cold Lake area.
	They're Métis.
	Or my birth mother was Métis.
	My grandmother was Cree.
	And my grandfather was Métis from the Frog Lake Reserve in, I believe it's Alberta.
	And my adopted family is Norwegian and Irish.
	So they've been here for generations.
	Okay, I'm going to unpack a bit here because this is actually fascinating.
	Metis and Cree.
	Metis is part, I don't know if we say native or indigenous anymore, but part native, part European, and Cree is from northern Canada.
	Mm-hmm, yeah.
	Well, Saskatchewan, Cree were Plains, Plains Indians.
	May I ask, do you know the story of your being put up for adoption and adopted by the family?
	Like, how did that happen, if you know, and when did you find out in your life?
	Well, Mom and Dad always made sure that I knew because they didn't want it to be a surprise to me later on.
	You know, they were always very honest about it and open.
	And I have five other siblings in my family, too, and I was the only one that was adopted.
	So my parents at first were told that they couldn't have children, so they adopted me, and I guess I brought them some good luck because then they had five more of their own.
	That's so good.
	You were the first of their children adopted, and then they had, through whatever miracle that happened, five kids after having...
	My mom had three miscarriages before they adopted me, so yeah.
	So yeah, so I always knew that I was adopted.
	And then when I was 18, I went to an organization called the Triad Society.
	I had a closed job.
	Adoptions have really changed in 50 years.
	They're not, you know, they used to be very private.
	But if you wanted to meet your birth parents, then you would send a letter to this organization.
	And if they wanted to meet you, they would send a letter to this organization.
	And so I met her actually in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan when I was, I think, just...
	19 years old.
	Okay, before we even get there, because if you don't mind, I have to ask a bunch of questions about that.
	Growing up now, so you're the oldest of six, always known that you were adopted.
	How young in the spacing of your five brothers and sisters?
	Well, there's myself and then my brother, he's two years younger than me.
	And then there's 11 months between him and my next sister.
	And about three years between her and my next sister, and a couple years between her and my next sister, and then I think it's seven.
	My youngest brother was a surprise.
	That's amazing.
	So you got Norwegian twins in there somewhere, or the Irish twins.
	And your parents, what did they do?
	What was life like growing up?
	Well, like I said, my dad bought grain for the wheat pole when I was really young.
	And he also had his own trucking company for a little while when I was very young.
	And then he worked a lot in the oil patch and on farms and stuff.
	So we moved around a lot.
	I think I went to five or six different schools from kindergarten to grade 12. So we moved around extensively, which teaches you to become rather adaptable, you know.
	The moving around, in hindsight or in retrospect, do you have resentment for it?
	Or did it end up being a positive in that you met more people than you otherwise would have ever met had you stayed in one spot?
	Well, I can't really compare the two because I don't know what it would be like to be in one spot.
	But, I mean, we were always the new kids in school, right?
	Which did have its challenges sometimes, of course, especially as we got older and became teenagers.
	You know, looking back, I think it is positive.
	It did teach me how to be adaptable and it did teach me how to, you know, make friends and learn how to talk to people.
	Now, for someone who grows up to be a rebel of an adult, were you always a rebel as a kid?
	Did you get into trouble?
	Were you defiant of authority?
	Or were you, you know, a perfect angel of a child and then suddenly said enough is enough to authority as an adult?
	No, I was definitely not an angel.
	I've been a rebel for a long, long time.
	I think the last time we moved, I was in high school.
	Yeah, I was just going into high school and we moved at that point to a small town in Saskatchewan.
	And, you know, I didn't want to move anymore at that point.
	And so I did start rebelling a little bit, you know, not listening to curfew.
	I ran away from home a couple of times.
	Just like nonsense, just stupid nonsense stuff, right?
	Okay, now before we get into education, so at 19 years old, you've always known since consciousness that you were adopted, and there is a program.
	I recall there being something similar under Quebec adoption law where the parents, when they put the child up for adoption, can say, I'm amenable to being contacted later on if they so choose.
	So you chose to do that.
	How old, if I may ask, how old was your mother when she had you?
	Did you discuss the circumstances of the adoption?
	And the obvious question, Any resentment?
	Or is it nothing but love and understanding by the time you meet your biological mother?
	Oh, no resentment whatsoever.
	She didn't tell me a lot.
	She's a very private person.
	But she was 18 years old when she got pregnant with me.
	And what happened was she was going to university in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and she met a Scottish man in the military.
	And so they hung out.
	For a few weeks and then she found out she was pregnant and when she told him she never heard from him again.
	And I did find out later that my grandparents really wanted her to keep me.
	She was quite adamant that she wanted me to go to a good home and be raised by two parents in a stable household.
	And I found out afterwards that my grandparents had really wanted to keep me if she didn't want to.
	But that would still prove quite challenging and be hard for her.
	I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason, and I came down this road for a purpose, and I don't have any resentment for sure.
	I don't know if she explored this.
	It would be a question that I would have asked, but the decision for her to not abort the baby, on the one hand, I say a lot of people are going to commend that because I suspect it would have been an easy option back in the time, but I'm maybe not sure because it's a relatively long time ago.
	It was 72, so I don't know how.
	I'm not sure how accessible they were back then.
	Did you ask her or did she say what it was like the day when she actually delivered and then had to put you up and actually physically give you to new parents?
	Yeah, it was a difficult decision for her to make for sure.
	I'm not sure how long I was with her in the hospital but I don't think it was for very long and I went straight into foster care for two months before I was taken in by my parents and then I was adopted.
	I was born September the 19th and I was adopted on November the 24th.
	So I kind of have two birthdays.
	And since having met your biological mother, any lasting relationship or has it sort of gone your separate ways?
	We're not especially close, but you know, anytime I would go to Edmonton, I would go see her or stay with her or whatever.
	I haven't talked to her too much since the convoy happened.
	And an aunt that I have that lives there, she's very close to me in age, actually.
	I think she's only six years older than me.
	And we get along famously.
	We're a lot alike in a lot of ways.
	But she works for the federal government.
	So, you know, they haven't really said anything.
	They kind of just wanted to stay away from this.
	And I don't like to push, you know, I feel like...
	They have my number.
	If they want to talk to me, they can reach out.
	I don't like making people feel uncomfortable, believe it or not.
	I'm not here, Justin Trudeau.
	Okay, so that's 19. What do you study in university?
	What did you end up doing in life before having your own family and then before getting into the decade?
	Shit went mad.
	What did you end up studying in university and what did you end up doing professionally in life?
	Well, I had a daughter very early.
	I was just turning 18 years old when my first daughter was born.
	And I went to Hair Design Academy in Moose Draw for a while and worked in the trade of hair and aesthetics for a couple years.
	And then when I went to college, I took emergency communications.
	And that is what really brought me into logistics.
	So I went to college in Saskatchewan.
	And then my ex-husband and I moved to Medicine Hat, where I worked as a 911 operator for a while, and then I got into logistics in the oil patch.
	And so, yeah, that's kind of my logistics background.
	I worked predominantly in the energy industry in Alberta since I've lived there.
	Tamara, I'm a nosy bastard, and you say one thing, and I have to.
	You worked as a 911 operator, or the person receiving the emergency calls.
	Yes, yeah.
	That's the course that I took at college.
	It was called Emergency Communications.
	How many years?
	So I was there for about a year and a half, yeah.
	Is that as exhausting, burnouting, and traumatic of an experience as I imagine it would be?
	You know, that was, it was high stress, you know, high demand.
	It could be very intense sometimes, just like the oil patch, actually.
	What I found was I was good at it.
	I discovered, you know, I was in my early 20s and, you know, trying to find my place in the world.
	And, you know, I'd been a waitress.
	I worked in the service industry.
	And all of a sudden I had this job where I discovered I worked really well under pressure.
	And I worked really well on tight deadlines.
	And so...
	It's just something that I like organizing things and putting everything into place, you know what I mean?
	And doing it under pressure.
	Again, I have to ask and we'll move on to something else.
	Do you have one distinct or one specific memory of the time you spent as an emergency responder?
	Or the, I forget now, I just lost the term, but do you have one particularly memorable event of that year and a half?
	I do.
	I'll tell you, one of the ones that sticks out in my mind the most was I took a call from a lady who was phoning for the police because she thought there was somebody in her home.
	It was late at night, probably 11 or 12 at night, and she thought she heard somebody in her house.
	And so, of course, I took the call.
	We dispatched the police to her house.
	I stayed on the phone with her and just kept her calm.
	You know, told her what to do.
	Obviously, there's a bunch of protocols in place.
	And, you know, the poor thing, she was so scared.
	And then when the police got there, you know, I'm on the phone with her.
	The police are arriving.
	They're in your yard.
	They're looking here.
	They're looking there.
	And she actually called me back after that call was resolved.
	It turned out she was not in any danger.
	And she called me back to thank me.
	She was just so grateful that, you know, I listened to her, which...
	It was so touching for me because it was my job.
	And just that she felt compelled to express her gratitude for something like that, I just thought was so sweet and kind.
	That's amazing.
	Okay.
	And so you did that for a year and a half.
	By the time you move out from that or move on from that, how old are you and what's your life like?
	When do you have kids?
	When do you get married?
	Yeah, well, I had my first daughter when I was just turning 18, like I said, and my second daughter came four years later, and then my youngest was born in 2002.
	So, yeah, I went straight from there right into the oil patch, and I just absolutely loved it, too.
	My ex-husband worked in the oil patch also, so I was quite familiar with a lot of it.
	And I just loved it.
	I loved working with the crews.
	I loved working with the other dispatchers.
	All In Medicine had.
	I worked for some, and I had some great managers.
	For someone who has never worked in the oil fields, I think I've seen them when I drove through Texas.
	What does that type of work consist of?
	I mean, it's high risk, I know, but I presume that that depends on what positions you hold.
	But what is life like working in the oil patches?
	It's hard work.
	It's long hours, working in extreme weather conditions.
	But it's exciting.
	It's usually, you know, fairly, most things are fairly fast-paced, which is great.
	Again, deadlines.
	I mean, the type of work that I did, I was in the office, obviously.
	But, you know, the great thing about the Canadian oil packs, you know, is that they're very safety conscious.
	They take that very, very seriously.
	When I hear Stephen Gilboa talking about our terrible dirty oil or Justin Trudeau, it really infuriates me because we really do have one of the most environmentally friendly extractions of our resources in all of the world.
	We are efficient and we are environmentally friendly and we do look after the environment through reclamation or whatever afterwards.
	It makes me very frustrated when I hear that industry here in Canada being demonized when we should be singing its praises.
	One thing I've only recently become very sensitive to or understood is the Wexit movement and the resentment of the West to the East.
	I was, you know, I'm familiar with certain things.
	I forget what the re...
	What's it called?
	The payments?
	The equalization payments.
	Equalization.
	Which is, you know, every province pays up to the federal and then the federal divvies it out.
	Provincially, but not proportionally to what each province pays up.
	And so there ends up being a transfer of wealth from the resource-rich provinces of the West to the purportedly poor provinces of the East.
	But that might only be because the Eastern provinces are not exploiting the resources that they have.
	And the West has been resentful of that.
	How long has the Wexit movement existed as a concept?
	How long has it been around for?
	2019, I think, is when it first started.
	I can't remember.
	It was shortly after Brexit.
	And I think that was around 2017-18, if I remember correctly.
	But I think the Wexit movement here in Canada was about early 2019.
	So you're working in the oil fields.
	And for anybody who doesn't know, there is the demonization of the West, the tar sands, the oil.
	It's dirty and yada, yada, yada.
	The flip side is...
	You know, you have to transport.
	If you don't produce it, you have to transport it.
	You end up with disasters like the Megantic disaster for transporting things along rails.
	You don't produce it at home.
	You end up having to buy it from tyrannical regimes, whether it's Saudi Arabia or Venezuela.
	And you end up crippling your local economy for nobody's benefit except for, you know, the virtue signaling that comes along with saying we're net zero as a country, but we still have to buy our stuff from awful, awful countries.
	Has the demonization of the West and the natural resources there gotten exponentially worse in the last decade, or has it always been bad, but we just haven't been paying attention to it?
	I would say it's gotten much worse, yeah.
	Much worse, yeah.
	And I was in the same boat.
	What we hear in the West is how much the East hates us, and like you just said.
	Doesn't want our dirty oil.
	And, you know, we live in a country where I think to be successful, we need to support each other, not just individually or in communities, but, you know, as an entire country.
	It doesn't make any sense to me.
	And like you said, we're importing it from countries that have abhorrent human rights violations.
	So, I mean, there is definitely a sentiment there.
	But that's one of the great, the first eye-opening experience I had with the convoy was when I was talking to the Quebecois, you know, within three days they had a thousand trucks ready to go and I'm chatting, you know, Google Translate and chatting on my monitors and these people were just like me.
	They had the same concerns as me, they had the same dreams as me, they had the same heartbreak as me, you know, and they really I mean, well, look at what happened to Quebec during the pandemic.
	I mean, those guys were rightfully angry.
	We're going to move this over to Rumble.
	I just want to read a few of the Super Chats because there's a bunch that are coming in.
	Dance Dance Revolution, that was the corner intersection in downtown Ottawa where they had the dance party.
	We're going to get into all of those people.
	This has just been the intro.
	Tamara, you are one of my heroes.
	Thank you for being here and for hanging in there.
	Oh, we're going to get into that because I need to know what prison is like.
	I have to know what you went through.
	Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
	And we've got Alex Davey Duke, $100 super chat.
	Hi, David.
	Thanks for interviewing my favorite person.
	We're going to carry this over.
	Thank you, Viva, for still trucking for Canada.
	Freedom Convoy brought brings hope.
	Let's never forget.
	We're going to get into, unfortunately, the lesser.
	Pleasant side of the convoy.
	But come over to Rumble because we're going to get into your pre, I'll call it activism, but your pre-political involvement that preceded the convoy because some people might not be aware of your progression and then the convoy.
	So over to Rumble right now, people.
	Doesn't change anything from our end tomorrow.
	And I'll put the entire interview up tomorrow on YouTube.
	Three, two, one.
	See y 'all there.
	All right.
	So now, have you always been...
	I say an activist.
	Have you always been politically involved?
	I know it started a little bit with the natural resources, the oil issue.
	Were you politically involved at all before these issues came to the fore?
	No, not really.
	I thought politics was boring.
	I didn't really understand it.
	When it came time in social studies class in middle school to start learning about Canadian Parliament, I didn't even listen to most of it.
	I'd fall asleep.
	It was so terribly boring.
	But it was about the time of just before the sponsorship scandal happened.
	And then I really started paying attention.
	You know, I followed politics kind of loosely through that period.
	And then the sponsorship scandal happened.
	And I just couldn't believe.
	You know that nothing was happening and nobody was being charged and everything it was just it was just a well just like what happens today it just gets brushed off and you're talking about billions of dollars of taxpayers money that were completely you know that that was a huge huge scandal nobody even ever went to jail over it and and then I started you know turning on question periods and and I couldn't believe what I was watching like there's more Professionalism and
	maturity in a kindergarten class.
	I mean, wouldn't you rather turn on your TV and see two sides of the house sitting down actually solving problems instead of this...
	It's theater.
	It's a soap opera.
	I was never...
	I too hated politics.
	I found it divisive.
	It always ends in a fight.
	And so I was never really involved and might explain why at one point in my ignorant, stupid life I voted for Trudeau, I think back in 2015.
	I voted for him once.
	I know I voted Liberal once.
	I'd never watched parliamentary debate.
	I think they've gotten exponentially more idiocracy-type idiotic, but watching the parliamentary debate where nobody's talking to each other and they sure as hell are not answering the questions that have been asked and it's almost an insult to human intelligence.
	It is.
	So when did you get politically involved or activist-like type behavior?
	Well, I would say, I know, I don't like calling myself an activist because that's people with axes that go after the LNG pipeline and stuff like that.
	That word is infused with a bit of hysteria and a bit of, what's the word?
	Zealot-type conduct.
	When did you get involved?
	It's not me.
	So about 2018, 2019, I think you'll probably recall there was some legislation that the Liberal government put through.
	One was Bill C-69, which was also known as the No More Pipelines Bill.
	Basically, what they did was they made it feasibly impossible.
	I mean, nobody is going to invest.
	It just wasn't going to be feasible for them to do so.
	And there were so many regulations put in place that there's no more pipelines.
	The second big piece of legislation they put to it about that time was Bill C-48, which was also nicknamed the tanker ban, Alberta oil tanker ban, on the BC coast, which is ironic because every other ship is allowed to leave the BC coast, come and go as they please, unless it's carrying Alberta oil.
	So it became pretty clear early on that Justin Trudeau and his government were trying to shut down our livelihood.
	I mean, in Alberta, that would be like coming to Ontario and trying to shut down the auto industry.
	You know, that's the biggest number one livelihood of Albertans.
	And so I started going to some local rallies.
	And about the same time, I think you'll remember, there was the yellow vest movement that happened in France.
	Yep, absolutely.
	And so I joined a little group in Medicine Hat and they were the yellow vest Medicine Hat at that time.
	They were kind of popping up all over the place.
	And we started just going out every week, you know, holding our signs against C-48 and C-69 specifically.
	And then we had a provincial election about the same time.
	So I volunteered with my local MLA to help him with his campaign.
	And then after the 2019 election, Wexit had started.
	I got a hold of Peter Downing after Trudeau won again.
	And I said, I can't stand by and do nothing.
	I said, I will.
	We'll be your Southeastern coordinator for Wexit, and we'll start having events and going out and talking to people and stuff like that.
	So that's basically how I got started.
	It's amazing.
	The cultural, not divide, but the cultural contrast between the East and the West, it is amazing.
	And I can only understand it looking backwards, but had to live it forwards.
	When Trudeau comes into power, From the East, from Quebec, it's just another liberal government.
	Oh, the war on firearm ownership in Canada, it's not really one that concerns Quebec and Ontario.
	Maybe a bit more of interest to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, but certainly more of an interest and more of an attack on the West.
	Then you got the attack or the war on gas and oil, which is an attack on the West.
	I mean, I understand the resentment, not just of Trudeau, not just of the East that seems to elect the government that then comes in and enacts legislation to basically suffocate the West.
	So you start getting involved 2018-2019.
	Who else was getting involved at that time as well?
	I think it's going to come into play.
	Relative to the convoy and who got involved in the convoy.
	So 2018, 2019, you're involved because of these issues.
	And then 2020 hits and the shit hits the fan.
	You know, not literally, but pretty close to literally.
	Do you remember the day where you were, the day they said shutting everything down two weeks to flatten the curve?
	Go home.
	I was working, yeah.
	We weren't sure what was going to happen.
	It was March the 6th.
	And the reason I remember that is because Brad Paisley was supposed to play in Medicine Hat.
	And me and my husband were just like, we can't believe Brad Paisley is going to play in Medicine Hat.
	And they shut that concert down that day.
	And I believe that was also the same day that I was sent home to work from home.
	And about two weeks later, my husband and I were both laid off from our jobs.
	For details, your husband, you're not...
	When did you get divorced, or is this the second husband?
	Yes, yeah.
	2012, yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah, so Duane and I have been married since 2017.
	Okay.
	And he was also working in the oil patch at the time.
	He was working as a pump jack mechanic for a little company there.
	So they shut down, I mean, look at the oil patch.
	It's not like you're, I love the idea they shut down golf as if golf is like a game where you don't automatically necessarily social distance.
	But when you're working in the oil patches, it's pretty, is it not isolated work to begin with?
	Well, it depends.
	Not necessarily with what we were doing, because we have frat crews that were out of our shop.
	So, you know, you have a frat crew with anywhere between seven and 30 guys.
	It just depends on how big your job is.
	And then, of course, we were in the office, too.
	But, I mean, the majority of their work is all outside.
	But, yeah, it was...
	And that's the thing, Viva, is that...
	You know, the legislation like C69 and C48 and then this is stuff that happened and we were already in a downturn.
	But what people don't see is that these aren't statistics and these aren't numbers.
	These are human beings who lost their jobs over this.
	And, you know, one of the most things I'll never forget when I was at STEP, you know, two weeks before Christmas, I remember a gentleman bringing me his resume and he was begging me to take it and give him a job.
	Two weeks before Christmas, and he had a mortgage and a family, and he had just been laid off.
	I'm going to pry a little bit, not that I want to know too much of finances, but you and your husband have a job.
	You work in the oil fields.
	I don't know what savings you have that you say, okay, well, we're not going to work anymore.
	What goes through your mind when this happens?
	When they say, okay, we're shutting down work.
	You're not getting paid.
	I mean, it goes without saying at this time.
	And we didn't know about the $2,000 a month that the government would print out of whole air.
	But what goes through your mind in terms of savings, in terms of finances, in terms of supporting your family, paying mortgage?
	What happened?
	Well, thankfully, my kids are adults.
	So, I mean, I can't imagine having little kids right now.
	I can't imagine what that would have been like, especially going through that whole pandemic.
	And I was laid off.
	The bulk of us at the shop that I worked at were laid off.
	So we knew that we would be eligible for EI.
	We'd be able to apply for EI.
	And my husband was laid off also.
	But yeah, it is scary.
	And no, I didn't have a lot of savings.
	Honestly, I had a little teeny, teeny bit.
	And we blew through that during the pandemic too.
	So yeah, I mean, and again, I didn't work in the field.
	I wasn't out in the field.
	I worked in the office.
	You know what I mean?
	So yeah.
	And how long were you shut down for?
	Was it the whole time?
	Or did that aspect reopen, if only partially, shortly after the shutdown?
	It did, actually.
	So we got laid off in March.
	We decided to take a drive out to visit my daughter in Manitoba because there was nothing happening in Medicine Hat.
	It was all shut down.
	We got to the farm and found out that she was expecting.
	So we essentially drove back to Medicine Hat, packed up a bunch of stuff, and we went and stayed in Manitoba for about 19 months and helped out on the farm.
	I ended up getting a job with a local municipality out there.
	So that was March 6, 2020.
	In October of 2021, both of our companies that we worked for contacted us and offered us our jobs back.
	So we ended up moving back to Alberta in November of 2021.
	That's fantastic.
	Now, okay, and we're going to get into the Ottawa thing, but just your experience through COVID, you know, in as much as you have a distinct memory of your time working the call, you know, the emergency call, do you have the recollection of the day or the moment when you said, holy crap, none of this makes any sense whatsoever?
	I had so many of those, Viva.
	First of all...
	I worked in fitness.
	I was a personal trainer and an educator for a Canadian fitness education company.
	And the first thing they started doing was shutting down gyms.
	And, you know, I know a little bit about the human body.
	I mean, I'm not a doctor or anything, but I mean, immediately that didn't make any sense to me, especially when shortly after that they started coming out and saying, you know, one of the most detrimental comorbidities if you have COVID-19 was obesity.
	Like, there was a major country, people that were obese, you know, were more susceptible to passing away from it.
	And I just thought, well, that really doesn't make any sense.
	There was so much of it that didn't make any sense.
	Masks didn't make any sense to me.
	Again, I'm not a scientist, but I know what you have to wear in a virology lab, and it's not a little cloth mask with sparkles on it, okay?
	I mean, it wasn't serious.
	But the most...
	I think the most telling tale was the propaganda.
	I mean, it was fear porn just coming at you on the radio, on the TV, signs at the bus stop, on the signs of buses.
	You know, the arrows in the grocery stores and the plexiglass.
	I mean, none of it made sense to me.
	To go back and just watch the news broadcasts from the time they had the death count in the...
	Is it a Chiron or a Chiron?
	I always get mixed up on that.
	That little banner on the screens, they had the death count.
	Then when the death count, I guess, wasn't going up fast enough, they had the case count.
	Then they had the variants.
	And I remember learning, as things went along, one story would break where...
	We eventually found out that Trudeau gave away 16 tons of personal protective equipment in February as he knew this pandemic was coming to Canada, gave it to China.
	Then when that story broke, the justification was it was expired anyhow, as though masks are going to somehow expire from one month to the next.
	Then we find out, I don't remember when the story broke, that they were using propaganda.
	They saw the pandemic as a great time to test propaganda on Canadians.
	And you basically learn that every step of the way, they weren't just wrong.
	And they weren't fractally wrong.
	They were deliberately wrong.
	I mean, some might say.
	And you nailed it.
	My mind just went totally blank here.
	I remember saying to my husband.
	I said, you know, if they're going to name all the COVID deaths every day, list that.
	I want to know how many people died in a drunk driving accident that day, how many people died of cancer that day.
	I guess we eradicated the flu, so nobody was actually dying from the flu.
	But you know what I mean?
	Like, why were they just specifically throwing that out there every single day?
	But I remember the answer was, well, they're not contagious.
	And the retort to that was, we had winters where the flu, there was one in the States that killed 80,000 people, nobody batted an eye.
	It was, in retrospect, the most incredible campaign of propaganda, of fear porn you could ever, ever imagine.
	And it all makes sense in hindsight as to why.
	So you get shut down.
	You move to see your daughter.
	You end up staying there for, did you say 19 months?
	Yeah, 19 months, yeah.
	So you were all able to cohabitate together for 19 months?
	Well, we did from, I guess, April until November, and then they had their baby, so we moved into an old farmhouse that he had on some property just down the road.
	Just damn beautiful.
	I remember the ridiculous thing is I lived like a kilometer and a half down the street from my parents, and I think I saw them during COVID a couple times, you know, like front door because everyone was just, you know, some people were more scared than others.
	It was insane.
	Now, okay, we'll get to the testimony during the convoy, but I know you have a number of particularly traumatizing memories of the whole event, and I don't remember when they occurred exactly.
	You know, your parents...
	Parents not being allowed into restaurants or being told to mask up in order to socialize.
	What were some of your more traumatic memories of the two to three years of absolute COVID insanity?
	Well, it was.
	I think it was a traumatic experience for everyone.
	I think, you know, while living at my daughter's house while she was pregnant, you know, during COVID.
	You know, when she would go to the hospital and her boyfriend wasn't allowed in with her or, you know, she couldn't get to her appointments or they would cancel her appointments.
	I mean, she couldn't see a doctor.
	Like, you know, how do you have checkups when you're pregnant without actually going in and physically seeing a doctor, you know?
	So, I mean, there was that.
	There was, you know, people that I knew that weren't allowed to see their parents when they died or their parents were locked up in long-term care homes.
	My grandma Who was 92 when this started or 93. She has just a tiny little apartment in a little town in Saskatchewan and she wasn't allowed out of it.
	You're talking about ladies that get together and gossip and do whatever grandmas do.
	They couldn't do that.
	And so the stories were appalling.
	My own kids, you know, there are stuff that they went through.
	It was terrible.
	Absolutely terrible.
	How people were treating people.
	That's the shocking thing where the joke is that in the heart of every liberal is an aspiring tyrant.
	And I don't know that it's necessarily of liberals.
	I just noticed the petty tyrant in a lot of society really...
	Flourished during COVID.
	What was the transformation of the town in which you were living like?
	I mean, I presume you noticed it because I think you did.
	What was it like seeing neighbors turn into enemies of one another?
	Well, it's incredibly sad.
	And, you know, small towns, I think, well, it was terrible for everyone.
	But if you think about a small town, and I grew up in them, you know, these people, this is their community.
	They're always involved in things together.
	So when you start creating that type of division in little communities like that, and I talked about this in my Jordan Peterson interview.
	I remember working at the municipality, and it was Christmas time.
	And the municipality that I lived in has a great big resort.
	It was just right outside of Riding Mountain National Park, so a big resort area, lots of cabins and everything, Airbnbs.
	And I took this call one day from this lady who was really upset.
	Because there was four cars parked across the street at the Airbnb.
	And, you know, I took the information and passed it on as I was supposed to.
	But I'm thinking, you know, it's Christmas time.
	Who knows the last time this family got to see each other?
	And why is it your business?
	No one's asking you or making you go over there.
	Like, maybe they just want to have a nice Christmas.
	But, you know, that was the snitching part of it.
	You know, a lot of really good people turned into bullies.
	And that's the irony of the whole thing.
	I mean, the people that are crying not to bully people or they're most offended by bullying are the ones that are doing the most bullying.
	We call that confession through projection or accuse others of what you are doing.
	So we don't need to...
	We'll skip over the whole...
	It was crazy.
	Just thinking about it in retrospect, you had...
	2020 was the shutdown in March.
	Magically, they get this jab thing ready by, it was almost the end of the year, but early 2021.
	What was, now hold on, which province are you in?
	You're in Saskatchewan.
	You're in Manitoba.
	Damn it.
	So what was life like in Manitoba?
	Like in Quebec, we had our petty tyrant gone nuclear, locked it up.
	We were under curfew for five and a half months, one year, another month and a half the next year.
	What was the day-to-day life like?
	What were the mandates like in Manitoba during COVID?
	They were pretty strict.
	The mask mandates were very strictly enforced everywhere that I was ever at anyways.
	But, you know, that was the great thing about being out in the country is, you know, we kept our circle small, but we didn't stop living our lives.
	You know, Duane and I still jammed with friends and, you know, we still had get-togethers.
	We went fishing.
	There's a big lake right behind my daughter's house, so we spent a lot of time out on the lake.
	Excuse me.
	But in the communities themselves, yeah, we were by a little tiny town called Sandy Lake, and you couldn't get groceries if you didn't wear a mask.
	All right.
	Okay, so now poo-poo hits the fan.
	I forget what year.
	The convoy was February 2022.
	Yeah.
	So let's, I guess, fast forward a little bit.
	I don't know what we're going to miss in terms of COVID, but the convoy.
	So you had had your experience already protesting some of the legislation, which was killing the industry in Alberta.
	And Canada is suffocating, to put it mildly, spiritually, metaphysically, in every respect.
	I'm sitting here in Quebec.
	We were under curfew.
	And I remember walking the streets, doing my Viva on the streets, and I would see in the chat, Viva, why aren't you talking about the convoy?
	And I'm like, what the heck are you talking about?
	What convoy?
	And then I Google it, and there's only a CBC article about a convoy in British Columbia from, I think from Whistler to Vancouver or something, protesting road conditions.
	And then I discover the cross-country convoy, and then it goes from, what's the convoy to, we're under attack, they're invading from all corners of Canada.
	How did the convoy get started?
	Yeah, that was crazy, right?
	The media were hilarious.
	So how the convoy got started, Chris Barber from Swift Currents, Saskatchewan actually, he lives not too far from where I'm from, I discovered.
	Trudeau had come in with the trucker mandate where they were going to force them to have vaccine passports to cross the border or they'd have to quarantine for 14 days every time they came across the border.
	So that was kind of the last straw, I think, for a lot of the people in the trucking industry, specifically because he had just gone around and hailed them as heroes and likened them to soldiers at Vimy Ridge for the last two years, and all of a sudden they were public enemy number one.
	And they had families to feed.
	So that was quite serious.
	He had met through social media a lady from Wallaceburg, Ontario, I think, who was also a trucker.
	And she had had some issues at the border, I think, with her mask, wearing a mask.
	She had, like, PTSD or something.
	So anyways, they met on social media and had started chatting about doing slow rolls, a convoy to Ottawa, a shutdown across Canada, whatever.
	And I'm not sure exactly how long they've been doing that before I entered up, but I called Chris Barber on January the 13th.
	And I set up the, I just said, look, my background is logistics organization and administration.
	You guys are going to need social media.
	You're going to need some funding.
	I want to help you.
	This is, you know, a little bit about me.
	And Chris and I hit it off immediately.
	He's a fantastic guy.
	He just has really great natural leadership qualities.
	He cares about people.
	You know, he's got a great sense of humor.
	And we hit it off immediately.
	And so the next day, January 14th, I set up the Facebook page, the Twitter account, and a little GoFundMe to raise a little bit of cash.
	And yeah.
	Now, I want to say one thing before I ask my next question.
	First of all, it's not paranoia.
	It's not delusion.
	I have no doubts there, RCMP or whomever, someone from the government watching this, just waiting to catch you in something that they can hold against you.
	To them, I would swear at you, but I'm a polite boy, so I'm just going to say...
	You know what I'm thinking right now is what I'm going to say.
	So I'm always nervous that you...
	I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble.
	I'm just going to ask my questions.
	You know what...
	If I push too far, you'll let me know.
	And I will still say piss off to anyone who's watching with that in mind.
	Now, with that said, the second question was organizing the convoy.
	So that's right, the mandates.
	Some people say, what's the big deal?
	People have to appreciate Trudeau was hailing...
	Frontline workers for having worked through the thick of COVID without any protection, risking their lives to bring us what we needed, etc.
	Heroes.
	This mandate, what's the big deal some people are going to say?
	The policy was as absurd as saying if you cross the border 14 days quarantine, some of these truckers who, by the way, work, if not in total isolation, pretty much in relative isolation.
	I did not fully appreciate that the truckers...
	Don't stay in hotels.
	They have a cabin in their truck where they sleep.
	So they drive alone.
	They deliver.
	They pick up.
	They sleep in their trucks alone.
	That's their job.
	The idea of making them quarantine for 14 days just for passing a magical fictional line between two countries where some of them are doing daily cross borders, it was effectively nothing short of financial and time coercion to submit to this jab, which...
	The other argument was, so many of them are vaccinated, just do it, there's only a few of you left.
	That was the last straw.
	I want to ask, how did they just say enough is enough?
	Where was it that they just said, this is dumb, we're not putting up with this anymore?
	And who was it within the truckers to represent them and say, enough is enough?
	Or is it just totally organic?
	They all say, among each other, this doesn't make any sense, let's do something about it.
	Well, my first contact was with Chris.
	Chris Barber.
	I'm sure they had been talking with other truckers and everyone was just frustrated with it.
	Like I said, until the 13th of January, what they had been doing before then, I wasn't involved in.
	What I did discover from Chris was that TikTok is the most popular Form of social media that truckers use.
	I didn't realize it was really, I didn't really understand it until the convoy happened, actually.
	So, you know, they had a network of people that way and a lot of friends.
	And I think that's how a lot of the road captains ended up coming in was, you know, people that Chris knew or, yeah, so, you know, throughout their friend group or whatever.
	And so you start the GoFundMe, which I call GoFME because nobody should ever use them again.
	You start the GoFundMe and, I mean, I know the answer to the question, what was the plan?
	I mean, what was the plan, Stan?
	You guys say, okay, we'll set up a GoFundMe.
	We'll try to raise some money.
	What were you hoping to accomplish by setting this up?
	And what was the plan?
	Well, I remember when we set it up and I asked Chris, because I said, how much should we make the target for?
	And in the back of my mind, I just had like $20,000 sort of made.
	I was hoping we could raise that, which I was prepared to handle with my...
	Very limited and feeble accounting skills.
	And Chris had said, I can't remember if he said $200,000 or $250,000.
	And I remember saying, no way.
	That is outrageous.
	It sounds greedy.
	We're never going to make that much.
	I said, I'll set it at the target at $100,000.
	But I said, I feel silly about that, basically.
	I said, I don't even feel good about that.
	And yeah, within 24 hours, I think we'd blown past $124,000.
	And the idea was raising the funds for gas accommodations to drive there and drive back.
	Yeah, fuel, food, and lodgings.
	Yeah, if needed or whatever.
	Logistically, I mean, we know what it turned into.
	From a logistics perspective, you start off with a small group of people.
	We're going to raise some money.
	You raise a ton of money, and then you get a ton of truckers saying, we're coming in from...
	I don't know if anyone came in from Newfoundland, but I suppose they did.
	But they certainly came in from the far east of Canada.
	When do you realize, holy shit, this is more than what we anticipated?
	Well, it was definitely within that 24-hour period because I set up the Facebook page too, right?
	And instantly started getting messages from people, messages of support, messages from people that wanted to join, messages of people that wanted to donate food or a bed along the way, messages of people with some horrible stories about what they went through during the pandemic.
	I actually ended up creating a subpage or a subgroup just for the support people because we needed to get the donations and everything kind of streamlined a different way because there was just so many messages.
	So I immediately recognized that we were going to need a finance committee to make sure this money was handled professionally and properly.
	And to put, you know, processes in place for that.
	And a social media committee, because I just couldn't handle all the messages that we were getting.
	So we got those in place within the first few days.
	And you know, it's like, I'm trying to think, when you're a kid, and once upon a time, I was in Mount Royal, and I was with my friends, we were going down this mountain, and we see a big boulder, and we push the boulder.
	Because we're idiots.
	And then we see the boulders start picking up speed and it gets more momentum than we ever thought it could have.
	And we're like, holy cow, this is out of our control now.
	And this could be a disaster.
	Flip side, in a good way, once this starts gaining momentum and you're like, holy crap, apples, this has a momentum of its own.
	Nothing like what I could have anticipated.
	Do you get scared?
	No, I wouldn't say that we got scared, but we recognized very early on that we needed to make sure that our message got out there, you know, because we knew, like you said, like it just grew so fast.
	So obviously safety became, you know, one of our number one concerns.
	Safety for the truck drivers, safety for the people that were with us, safety for the people, you know, that were supporting us.
	They're going to be standing on the side of the road.
	Safety from infiltrators like Antifa, because, I mean, it happened.
	You know, and so, and that's why in our videos, you know, we started talking a lot about, hey, you know, we're only coming to Ottawa to protest peacefully.
	And if you see people that are acting in a threatening or aggressive manner, call the police and report them or let somebody, let one of us know and we'll report it because they are not with us.
	And so it was almost daily, I think, that we got that message out.
	And we knew, we recognized how important that was right off the bat with all that support that was coming in.
	Because obviously it's social media.
	We're not just getting like messages of love and peace.
	We're also getting messages, you know, why don't you just die?
	You know how sweet some people can be on social media.
	Well, absolutely.
	Although, you know, I've been relatively fortunate on social media, but along with the snowballing of the support of the momentum comes, you know.
	Not outside forces, but other interests trying to co-opt it.
	And let me just see if I can lift my computer without getting too risky.
	See this?
	I got the bumper sticker here.
	Oh, yeah.
	Canada Unity.
	Now, I wasn't aware that they ended up not being one of the problems, and I'm saying this absolutely with no judgment.
	They put out that Memorandum of Understanding, which caused some problems because some people were reading it like it was a memorandum to overthrow the government.
	You had some interests co-opting it, and I'm...
	Definitively not trying to sow discord or bad talk other players.
	And there's no but, I should just say.
	You had other interests trying to co-opt this.
	What was the internal discussion or how did you go about trying to make sure that the message would remain consistent and that other interests wouldn't co-opt the movement itself for their own purposes and try to co-opt some of that sweet, sweet money that you had raised, which was well beyond expectations?
	Well, you're absolutely right.
	There was a lot of different groups.
	That came in and, you know, tried to take over or infiltrate or influence.
	And I think, and even still to this day, Viva, I think that everybody that came to Ottawa came there because they were concerned about their country and they really came there for the right reasons.
	I just think that some organizations or people that came also had their own agenda, like maybe wanted to use it to further their own brand or stuff like that.
	You know, and I'm sure there was some that had nefarious intentions, but, you know, we were very successful at keeping them at bay and keeping them out of our core group.
	And so, yeah, there was a lot of concerns about a lot of these people, but we mitigated it and beautifully, I think.
	You know?
	When did they land?
	When did they land on Ottawa?
	They arrived on a Friday.
	What date was the Friday?
	We all got in on January the 28th.
	Friday the 28th.
	Okay, so everyone arrives on January the 28th.
	What was the plan?
	We're going to slow roll through or park and wait?
	Well, from the West, we parked and waited.
	We parked out at Arnprior.
	I think the convoy from the East, a lot of them had come in on that Friday and had headed up to park around Parliament Hill.
	But all of us from the West parked out at Arnprior and then drove in to lunch the next day.
	I know what happened.
	Explain what happened with the GoFundMe funds.
	You reached your first million.
	It got up to...
	What did the GoFundMe...
	It got to $10 million.
	And I'll clarify for everybody out there.
	It got to $10 million.
	I believe it was 90% of it.
	The vast majority of the donations to the GoFundMe came from Canadians and came in small amounts.
	That statistic was a little bit different with the Give, Send, Go because by that time when GoFundMe tried to screw the convoy, it pissed off a lot of Americans who then said, well, now we're donating to this because we're pissed off.
	And so I think it was like 50% of the Give, Send, Go.
	Came from America.
	But what happened with the GoFundMe?
	When did you realize that there were problems with the monies that were raised in the GoFundMe?
	Well, I actually felt that there was problems, you know, fairly early on because I felt like they were really dragging their feet.
	I mean, of course, they have to do their due diligence and make sure that they're not, you know, we're not a terrorist organization, which I totally understand.
	And they actually had people emailing them and telling them that we were a terrorist organization and that we were going to, you know, be January 6th.
	Insurrectionists and stuff like that.
	So, you know, but I felt fairly early on that, you know, they were really dragging their feet.
	We'd answer their questions and then they would come back with, you know, even more questions and we'd answer all those questions and they'd come back with even more questions.
	And basically, you know, once we hit the road, the finance committee had the bulk to do with them.
	You know, like I stayed on top because I was CC'd in all the emails and, you know, we chatted often.
	But, you know, I had to really hand a lot of that over to the finance committee because we were so busy on our way to Ottawa, like constantly taking calls or doing interviews or, you know, people were reaching out to us for this or that or all the rest of it.
	So it was chaos.
	There were some days, I swear, if Chris and I got to talk to each other for five minutes, it was a good day.
	You raised the first million was by January 14th, 15th?
	Is that a little too early?
	I think that's too early.
	The first million, I think, though, was within the first week.
	It was well before you arrived in Ottawa.
	I want to say the 18th, but I could be wrong.
	Okay, and then...
	It gets up to $10 million.
	They did disperse $1 million of the $10 million from GoFundMe?
	Yes, they did.
	And that went to a TV account which ultimately got frozen, I think, under the court order?
	Yes.
	It was frozen immediately, pretty much.
	Now, when do you find out that there's politics afoot and that what's the guy's name from Ottawa who was meeting with GoFundMe?
	Oh, dear goodness.
	The mayor of Ottawa.
	What's his name?
	Oh, Jim Watson.
	Yeah.
	So we now know because of the hindsight and the inquiry that I believe it was Jim Watson and others meeting with GoFundMe to pressure them to shut down the GoFundMe on the basis that this was funding violence.
	You only found out about that well later on, right?
	That's exactly right.
	Although we did know, I mean, we had a meeting with GoFundMe, I think it was a Thursday night right after the lawyers flew in.
	And we had a meeting with GoFundMe and their lawyers.
	And it went fantastic.
	We answered all their questions.
	Everybody was happy by the time we completed this meeting.
	And then I think it was, you know, the next morning, late morning or early afternoon, we find out that they froze our campaign.
	And we were kind of shocked because we'd left this meeting.
	And felt like we'd satisfied all their questions.
	They were happy with all of our answers.
	Everything was good.
	They were going to release all the money.
	And that's what happened.
	We found out later.
	I remember living it in real time where they froze it twice.
	The first time was for some additional details.
	The second time was the last time.
	They froze it.
	And then they said...
	We're keeping it, and we're shutting it down, and we're giving the monies to a charity of our choice.
	And I remember, first of all, I mean, I talked about it at the time.
	You want to talk about a massive class action lawsuit, that's one right there.
	And then they said, okay, well, we're going to reimburse to those who request a reimbursement, and whatever's left over, we're going to give to a charity of the committee's choice.
	There was still outcry.
	They said, okay, fine, we're just going to reimburse all of it.
	But meanwhile, they denied the $10 million of...
	Peaceful money that Canadians rightly gave, willingly gave, knowingly gave.
	They reimbursed all of it.
	And that's when you were simultaneously setting up the give, send, go.
	And you didn't find out that it was the result of direct political influence from Jim Watson.
	Do you remember if anybody else was involved in that meddling?
	I think that the Ottawa Police Service was also involved.
	So they meet with GoFundMe.
	They say, you better shut this down.
	It's being used for violence.
	And this is now contemporaneously...
	You see how it all fits together with what I call the...
	What's the word?
	The trumped-up charges out of coots.
	It's all part of the same scheme.
	Just a little parenthesis tomorrow.
	In Canada, we labeled the Proud Boys a terrorist organization.
	The Proud Boys, I don't think anybody even knows what they do or what they've done because it's nothing.
	But legally...
	It allows for a much more expedited seizure of assets when you're seizing the assets of a terrorist organization, which explains why there was the allegation of...
	I saw that in Chrystia Freeland's notes.
	Flesh this out.
	This is what I wanted now.
	Flesh this out.
	What did you see in Chrystia Freeland's notes as relates to the convoy?
	Her notes were exactly what you just said.
	Label them as terrorists and seize their assets.
	I tell you, it's Kierkegaard.
	It only makes sense backwards.
	You live through it forwards, and I'm sitting here saying, what the hell did Justin Trudeau just name the Proud Boys a terrorist organization for?
	On the one hand, he did it.
	Anybody who knows the law, it facilitates seizure of assets because you can skip a whole bunch of due diligence.
	Second thing, he was trying to give the little impetus to Joe Biden in the States.
	Let's label the Proud Boys a terrorist organization.
	Canada did it.
	Third...
	When did you discover that Chrystia Freeland in her notes said, here's the strategy, label them terrorists, it makes it easier for us to seize assets?
	This is only during the commission.
	Yep, this is only during the commission, yep.
	There was a lot of evidence that came out of the commission, and it's really unfortunate that it's not getting the attention that it deserves, especially after all the disgusting lies and false accusations that we face.
	You know, when you have the superintendent from the OPP Intelligence Division, the top dog...
	Saying the lack of violence in Ottawa was shocking and that the intelligence that he was gathering didn't match what he was hearing coming from the politicians and the media.
	You know, and I asked somebody last week, because we were talking about this, and I said, do you know who Pat Morris is?
	And they said no.
	And I said, well, that's part of the problem, isn't it?
	This guy has some pretty compelling evidence at the POEC, and you don't even know his name.
	It's part and parcel of the strategy of the POEC.
	Make it last for six weeks where nobody, even those who are interested in myself, could possibly hope to follow this day in and day out for six weeks.
	Give a four-volume, 5,000-page, whatever it was, ultimate report that hinges on one piece of evidence to justify the invocation of the act, that being the Coutts conspiracy for murder of an RCMP officer.
	Okay, so the GoFundMe.
	They froze it once.
	You do some due diligence.
	Then they freeze it a second time once you hit 10 million.
	There's a bit of a debacle because they say we're going to keep them like the ball.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm trying not to say the audacity that they think they could get away with that.
	They shut it down.
	They reimburse all of it.
	I gave 50 bucks to the GoFundMe.
	And then when they shut it down and refunded me, I gave a thousand bucks to the Give, Send, Go because screw whoever thinks they're going to tell me who I can support.
	What was it like?
	Trying to deal with that because you have 10 million bucks in there.
	You got, I don't know, however many thousands of trucks there who have been there paying for their own gas, paying for their own lodging, paying for their own food.
	What's the panic like and what is the strategy to try to use Give, Send, Go to effectively use it for the purposes that you had the GoFundMe for?
	Well, we started the process with the Give, Send, Go before GoFundMe, before that whole thing collapsed because we saw the writing on the wall.
	And GoFundMe, or sorry, GiveSendGo was, it was lesser known than GoFundMe, but it was very Christian-based.
	So, you know, anyways, we've done some investigation into that, and they seem like a really good organization.
	And they are a fantastic organization.
	So, I don't, you know, for myself, Eva, there's maybe, I didn't panic about the money being gone.
	I mean, as we were driving across Canada, You know, it was really bittersweet because, you know, we were taking in a million dollars a day in donations.
	And so, you know, somebody from the finance committee would be watching the GoFundMe throughout the day and they'd call me or text me and say, you've got to bump it up another million.
	It's almost at another million.
	And so I'd be like, okay.
	And I'd go in and I'd raise the target again.
	But it was really bittersweet because it was really exciting.
	What an exciting thing.
	But at the same time, You know, even I know when you start talking about that kind of money, there's lawyers coming.
	Somebody is coming after you for that money.
	And so, you know, when it was all refunded and everything, it was almost a relief for me personally.
	You know, it was my name that was on it.
	I mean, we did add Benjamins later on for the GoFundMe, but, you know, that was a massive responsibility.
	And that's one of the reasons why I started doing those videos right away.
	I'm not a podcaster or, you know, this is not what I do.
	But I felt it was really important to get onto Facebook and keep people informed every step of the way and what we were doing and why and what our intentions were.
	The drive out there and then the arrival and the experience itself.
	I've never driven across Canada.
	Tell the world who might not know.
	I've seen the pictures.
	I went to some of the overpasses in Montreal.
	But tell the world what the drive itself is like, but then the drive coupled with...
	You know, people amassing at overpasses, waving flags, encouraging on.
	What was that experience driving down like?
	And what was the arrival at Ottawa like?
	It was one of the most beautiful experiences of my lifetime.
	The unity that we saw, the happiness, tears of relief.
	I mean, I shudder to think.
	I actually just thought about this a couple of weeks ago or last week.
	I said to somebody, I wonder how many tears were shed, you know, by grown, hardened men driving across camp, you know, on that number one highway.
	I mean, everybody was crying the whole way.
	None of us could, you know, fathom, you know, what was really happening and the support that we had.
	And, you know, people that were just so grateful, so, so grateful.
	And the one word that we heard the most was hope.
	Everybody would thank us, you know, for bringing them hope again, or we were giving them hope again.
	And the irony is that they were giving us hope too.
	You know, because we were all, you know, fed up and, you know, just had enough of the two years of depression and anxiety and, you know, being told our family wasn't allowed in our own house.
	You know, so it was, and to see the unity, you know, it didn't matter what color your skin was.
	What part of the country you lived in, what god you worshipped, what your income bracket was.
	Everyone was a Canadian, period.
	And so I think, honestly, that's what scared the government more than the money.
	And you get to Ottawa.
	I don't remember when the money went back, but...
	I mean, you walked the streets, and what was your feeling?
	What was that like?
	Even driving up there, when we got up to the hill, there was a massive crowd there already.
	I don't know how many people there were there, but there were so many.
	I mean, basically, once we got out of the truck, Chris parked Big Red right in front of the Supreme Court.
	And, I mean, we got out and were mobbed.
	So we were pretty much just, we didn't make it past there, you know?
	I did walk over to the Swiss Hotel at one point that afternoon.
	Or that evening.
	But it was just so many people and happiness and hugs and, you know, happy tears and, you know, healing tears.
	Little kids.
	You know, it's crazy.
	You get there.
	I know I'll skip some of it.
	Procedural stuff, you federally incorporate, you incorporate a federal not-for-profit, you make a board of directors, you got the lawyers, and you're turning this into something much more formal than it had been hitherto.
	When do you get slapped with the first lawsuit?
	Like, when does that injunction come down to stop the honking, among other things?
	Lexi Lee's lawsuit.
	Oh, yeah, Lexi's lawsuit.
	Well, the Horn injunction, the lawyers flew in on, I think, February the 3rd.
	And I think they were served the next day or it was either the Thursday or the Friday.
	It was almost immediately after the lawyers got there because they didn't stop, basically.
	So, yeah, they were in court for that right away, almost immediately within a day or two.
	We were serving that injunction.
	And then, of course, we found out shortly after that.
	I don't know the exact date that we were served with Paul Champ's lawsuit, but it was just ironic that...
	We had $10 million at that time in GoFundMe and all of a sudden there's a magic $10 million lawsuit against us.
	And he went out and found somebody.
	He had to go out and find someone to put their name on his lawsuit.
	Paul Champ is the lawyer for Zexy Lee.
	And Paul Champ, for those who don't know, he's the guy that was the lawyer during the Convoy Commission who had a sticker on his computer.
	I forget what the sticker said.
	It was something along the lines of Tax the Rich or something along those lines.
	Paul Champ is an activist of a lawyer.
	That's fine.
	So Zexy Lee Su's, there's a $10 million class action lawsuit for the organizers.
	Your name is on it.
	That lawsuit is still pending, correct?
	Yes, and it's actually grown considerably.
	It's now $406 million.
	And he's included some businesses, business organizations in downtown Ottawa.
	He has just expanded it.
	I think he's trying to add a donor class now.
	So if you donated money over, I think it's $1,000 or something to the convoy, he feels that you should have your name added to this lawsuit.
	Could you imagine the precedent that that was set?
	It's a frivolous lawsuit that deserves to be dismissed and...
	I would say the plaintiff sanctioned, possibly a lawyer who does it.
	But we've gotten into such a level of politics.
	They'll twist and turn to make it make sense.
	Suing the donors because there was lawful or unlawful activity, the honking of the horns.
	$406 million, they've added additional defendants, Tamara.
	Yes.
	Okay, it's amazing.
	Like $400 million.
	I mean, give me a break.
	You know, let's keep it in the realm of reality here.
	There's not one single one of us on this lawsuit.
	We're like blue collar.
	You know what I mean?
	It's ridiculous.
	Well, it's a $1.6 billion judgment against Alex Jones for words.
	We're in a different realm of lawfare.
	And Zexy Lee is her name, by the way.
	I'm not making fun.
	There's an interesting question as to who's financing this lawsuit because it's amazing.
	I don't think it has a snowball's chance in summer of success.
	It's one hell of a lawfare, you know, destroy you with the process in the meantime.
	So you're still facing that lawsuit.
	Yeah.
	Everybody knows the injunction said we'll stop honking our horns between certain times and certain times.
	No train horn type things.
	By and large, the crowd was good at respecting it.
	Okay, so what else momentous happens during the protest prior to the most, the violent suppression of the peaceful protest?
	Have I forgotten anything?
	You get give, send, go.
	And then give, send, go.
	You raise 10 million bucks, what was it, overnight or within a day or two?
	It was a very short period of time, yeah.
	And then what do they do to that money?
	Well, what happened was we couldn't get it.
	We couldn't get access to it because as soon as he was going to try and get it across the border, because they're based in the United States, the government would have seized it.
	It would have been completely seized.
	So he ended up refunding most of that.
	I think there was about...
	There was money in the payment processor called Stripe.
	And I want to say it was about $3 million.
	So that was seized.
	That wasn't returned.
	And then there was the e-transfer money.
	Because I didn't know a lot about GoFundMe when I started this, obviously, or I never would have used them.
	But a lot of people messaged us right away after we set up that campaign and said, well, I'm not going to send money to GoFundMe, but, you know, could you have an email address?
	So we set up an e-transfer.
	So people could donate that way too.
	So anyways, yeah.
	To sue the donor class for monies that the convoy never even received for activity that was perfectly lawful in the first place, it's stupid.
	It's just stupid.
	There's no other word for it.
	All right, before we get to the violent suppression, memorable events of the three weeks occupation of Ottawa.
	Wow.
	Okay, there's so many.
	But I will say one of the most ironic experiences that I had there was February the 14th.
	And Keith Wilson and myself and my husband had left the Swiss Hotel.
	We were on the way to meet with Mr. Brian Peckford.
	And it was when we were on the way that we found out that Trudeau was going to be invoking the act.
	So we go up and meet Mr. Peckford in the Lord Elgin Hotel.
	And Keith Wilson informs him that the Emergencies Act has just been invoked and that Mr. Peckford's charter is about to be stomped all over.
	What was Peckford's response?
	Were you there when Peckford reacted?
	What did he say?
	He just said, "Dear Lord." And then they started chatting about what this meant and if they were going to invoke all the provisions and everything.
	But what a surreal moment to be in the room with the last surviving signatory and crafter of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
	You know, it was quite a moment.
	And then there was so many feel-good moments, too.
	And a lot of, you know, it was great.
	So many people, you know, were able to tell their stories or, like I said, you know, we'd be down at the hill and they'd come up to thank us.
	They want their pictures taken and tell their story and say, you know, how much we had had hope.
	So many people, so many people, Viva, told us that they were planning their suicides all across Canada.
	To this day, I hear that.
	You know, until the convoy started, you know, we were planning our suicides.
	And so to see these people coming together like that, you know, was...
	Overwhelming, almost.
	Like I've said it many times, I was never a crier, really, before.
	But, you know, right as soon as that convoy started, I cried every day.
	Every day.
	February 14th, if I'm not mistaken, that's Valentine's Day.
	So you find out that...
	I remember reading a tweet from Kian Bexty, and he said, I have a feeling Tristan Trudeau is going to do something that's going to...
	Tear the very fabric of Canada.
	And I can't find the tweet to temporalize it with the invocation.
	I suspect that's what he was finding out.
	You hear murmurings and then you know what's going to happen.
	What goes through your stomach, your head?
	This is like, you know it's over.
	The party's over now in a big way.
	Peckford says, dear God, dear Lord.
	And what do you do that night?
	Well, we just basically...
	I'll tell you what I saw when I was in Ottawa.
	I didn't honestly know what to expect at this point because we get to Ottawa and we get down to the protest zone in front of Parliament Hill and there's little groups of police officers basically standing around doing nothing or they're talking to the protesters or supporters, families, whatever.
	And then the City of Ottawa engages their emergency order and I just saw little pockets of police officers, you know, grow a little bit.
	And so I saw more police officers standing around doing nothing.
	And then Doug Ford, you know, does the emergency for the provincial emergency and goes snowmobiling.
	Clearly it was an emergency.
	And same thing.
	I just saw these groups getting bigger and bigger.
	So we didn't know what to expect, what they were going to do.
	We certainly, or at least for myself, never in a million years thought they were going to crack down on Canadians.
	Peaceful protesters the way that they did.
	I mean, that's the stuff that I grew up watching on TV that happened in third world countries.
	Not in Canada.
	February 14th.
	I don't remember what day of the week it was.
	It was Friday to Saturday.
	It was a Monday.
	I remember I was going back every day virtually to see this because I was being told, you know, you have to come down to see this because what you're reading about in the news is absolute rubbish.
	And I went down and...
	Don't need to tell that story again.
	The live streams are out there.
	The week after they invoked it, I remember seeing massive police presence.
	They were fencing off the corridors, so to speak.
	People were saying they're getting ready to kettle, etc., etc.
	And we know how it ended.
	It was a violent, tyrannical...
	For all the critique of Russia and Putin, it was as tyrannical a crackdown of a peaceful protest as you can have in a Western society.
	Your infamous arrest now.
	That occurred the Friday night before the Saturday of the crackdown, right?
	That was a Friday night.
	It was a Thursday.
	I'm going to tell you, this is an iconic photograph.
	It looks like it was snapped with a phone.
	Yes, it was.
	A desolate Ottawa street.
	Tell us how you get arrested.
	How does this even happen?
	Where were you?
	Did they give you an advance notice?
	Did you know it was coming?
	Well, excuse me.
	We had an idea that it was coming.
	We'd heard that there was arrest coming.
	But I mean, we always heard that.
	That's the thing about being at the convoys.
	There's rumors from the day that we got there, right?
	But anyways, we'd heard some rumors that we were taking pretty seriously that there was a good chance that we were going to be arrested.
	You know, Chris and the guys were working diligently still to try and move these trucks, even though they called off the deal that we made with the city.
	I've spent the day the afternoon walking around talking to people with my husband and and we got back to the Swiss hotel and I want to say it was probably it was after four for sure four or five o 'clock maybe and we've been in the Swiss hotel for just you know 15 20 minutes and all of a sudden everybody's phone started buzzing and we found out that Chris Barber had been arrested so we were pretty sure did you find out for what?
	No, I didn't know right away what he'd been charged with.
	We just knew he'd been arrested.
	Like I said, ironically, even though they didn't know who to talk to, they stayed because they weren't sure who the leaders were.
	They definitely knew who to arrest, didn't they?
	And just also, you mentioned the settlement that was rejected because it came out during the commission through the six weeks.
	There was a negotiated settlement to start removing the trucks in an orderly fashion from the occupation, from Ottawa.
	It was rejected if it even got to Trudeau because the decision had been made to invoke the Emergencies Act and the settlement would have impeded with that.
	This is evidence-based realizations that came out during the commission.
	So there was a settlement.
	It was effectively rejected so that Trudeau could invoke the Emergencies Act and then the arrests start coming down.
	They arrest Chris Barber, phones start buzzing, and you know the hammer's coming down on you.
	Yeah, Danny Bulford and I were pretty sure that we were going to be next because we were both quite visible also.
	So we made the decision to leave the Swiss Hotel because we didn't want that kind of drama happening at the Swiss Hotel.
	I mean, the lady that runs that is such a sweetheart.
	Both of our spouses were there and we didn't want them to have to see.
	You know, that I would think that would be a fairly traumatic experience.
	So we went out to present ourselves to police.
	And the first police that we approached and presented ourselves to said that they weren't looking for us and they didn't want to arrest us.
	And I remember it was really weird because Danny did all the talking.
	We're talking to this gentleman in a suburban.
	And these were two suburbans that were parked on Metcalfe with their headlights facing Parliament Hill.
	So we come down, we walk down, go present ourselves.
	No, we're not looking for you.
	And I remember I said, okay, well, if that changes, we're just going to be right up here.
	Just be right up here.
	And then we started walking back towards the hill, myself and Danny and two others.
	And I turned around and I saw the Suburbans backing out and leaving.
	And I remember I said to Danny, well, that's weird.
	Like, why would they leave now?
	They've obviously been sitting there and sitting there and sitting there and right after they talked to us.
	So I thought that was kind of strange.
	And then, of course, where I get picked up, which is only, I think, two blocks from Parliament Hill where there was tons of people and lights and activity.
	We stopped down at the Ark Hotel to warm up for a minute and so that one of the guys could grab his phone or something or a charger.
	And then we headed off to head back to the hotel that we were going to because we'd been out there for a few hours and hadn't been arrested.
	And then as soon as we stepped into that dark, I'll bring this up here, I think.
	Yeah.
	I'm not here to rest.
	Well, you will be.
	What's up?
	Good night.
	Good night.
	Enjoy yourself.
	We'll see you soon, Tamara.
	Hold the line.
	that's That's the arrest.
	How does it feel looking at that, watching that video?
	I mean I guess you watch it enough, but how does it feel watching that?
	It's surreal.
	I mean, this is just not my life, you know.
	But, yeah, you know, again, everything happens for a reason.
	And that had to happen for a reason, too.
	And I wasn't worried about it.
	You know, I did that video the night before.
	And that's one of the things I wanted to reassure people is that, you know, we were concerned that there could be a ref coming, but I just didn't want people to worry about me.
	Specifically, because I would be okay and I wasn't afraid.
	And it just proved to me that there was more that needed to be exposed.
	And we had inadvertently, unintentionally exposed so much already.
	You get hauled off.
	Where do they take you?
	What happens over the next few days?
	Because they get you on a Thursday night, but they certainly don't get you in front of a judge for a little while.
	And then, well, where do they take you immediately?
	To the police station on Elgin Street, first of all.
	We went straight there.
	I was searched out in the parking lot.
	There was two male officers that picked me up, obviously, so we had to wait till the female officers came.
	And we were just outside in the parking lot there at the police station, and they just emptied my pockets and took all my stuff.
	But I made sure, I don't know if you've heard about my Freedom Pants Viva, but...
	When I was walking around, I had some cargo pants there and I had a Bible in one pocket, braided sweet grass in another pocket.
	I had a rose quartz heart.
	I had a card that a little kid, a thank you card that a little kid had made me.
	I had a letter from a man who had lost everything during the pandemic and was living with his family in his car.
	And I had a copy of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms because I knew, oh, and I also had a cameo of the Virgin Mary.
	Because I knew somebody was going to have to inventory every single piece of, you know, everything I had on me.
	And I just thought that would be so poignant.
	Did they let you keep the Bible in prison when you were in there, in detention?
	No, they took everything.
	So they take you to Elgin.
	And then, I mean, where do they put you to hold you?
	And how many days were you held before you even got to see a judge for the first time?
	I think I was at the police station for two nights originally.
	So yeah, I was arrested on Thursday night.
	And I think my court date was Saturday morning.
	No, Friday morning, sorry.
	It's getting to be a long time now.
	You know what I mean?
	So I know Chris had had his hearing first, and they sent him home, and it was a long weekend, so she heard my bail hearing and then reserved her, you know, was going to make her decision on Tuesday after the long weekend.
	So, which I think was part of, you know, because she came down on me.
	I was shocked, really, at her behavior towards me.
	And, you know, but she had the whole weekend to see this horrible, horrible takedown of the Canadian people and listen to the news talk just, you know, about what a bunch of terrorists we were, which is awful.
	I think people have to understand this.
	This is enraging to me.
	They keep you in jail until Tuesday while the judge who had heard your case, what's the word, adjudicates, provides a decision.
	So what do you do?
	You're in what type of cellar for the next?
	Friday, Saturday, Saturday.
	For the next three or four nights while the judge sits and pontificates.
	Well, the police station cells are the worst, honestly, because that is literally a giant cement slab.
	And so, you know, when I was taken in that night, I'd been walking around all day and it had been drizzling and it was cold and I was wet.
	And that's what I had to wear, basically, you know.
	They don't have blankets in there.
	You don't get a blanket in there.
	I was lucky that one of the officers there had a sweater that he gave me because I did ask, you know, for something.
	So, and then I was hauled off to the detention center and then that was just a whole new experience for me too.
	I was, the first few days I was in solitary confinement at the Ottawa Carleton Detention Center because that was their COVID policy for quarantine.
	And that was, that was unreal.
	I've never, I call it the dungeon.
	I've never seen anything like it.
	It's literally, it was in the dungeon.
	Dark, dreary, teeny little window about, I don't know, 12 to 15 feet over my head.
	You know, terrible, horrible graffiti on the walls.
	It was just so disgusting.
	And I basically slept for the first day or two because I hadn't slept in weeks, really.
	And then I just thought, okay, well, I need to make this.
	If I'm going to live here, I need to make this space my own.
	And I started washing the walls and meditating in there and praying in there.
	Wrote out the national anthem and drew a Canadian flag and kept a little calendar on there because I could see how days could get away from you in there, right?
	So...
	When you say the graffiti was horrible, do you remember what any of the graffiti said?
	Was it like self-harm type things?
	Like, I'm going crazy, why am I in here?
	Or was it just, you know, people carving it?
	Oh, it was...
	Yeah, lots of F-bombs and like...
	Drawings of naked women and just obscene things.
	There was some graffiti there that I left, though, because as I was cleaning it, I came across it, and it actually choked me up and made me cry.
	And I can't remember exactly how it was worded, but it was something to the effect of, you know, please be strong and hang in there.
	The first 14 days of quarantine are the hardest.
	Brighter days are coming.
	And then that's when it hit me.
	I mean, I never even thought about the people that were in our prisons during the pandemic that lived in those conditions for two weeks or more at a time.
	You know, it was terrible.
	It's not a nice place to be.
	And so you're in there solitary, 20, 22 hours a day?
	Like, when do you get out?
	Shower, calls, lawyers, socialists?
	We were out down there.
	I think it was 30 minutes a day.
	So, yeah, to shower.
	That would be to shower and make all your phone calls.
	I was, it was a couple days, I think.
	So I was arrested on Thursday.
	I believe it was the Sunday when I finally got a hold of my sister and she told me about what was happening.
	About what was happening out on the street.
	And about Candace getting trampled.
	I'm sorry.
	It's traumatizing though, right?
	And I just couldn't believe it because we couldn't.
	I couldn't get a newspaper in there.
	We couldn't watch the news.
	And so to hear, you know, what was going on out there was absolutely crazy, especially knowing that, you know, we were peaceful and to know that, you know, the law enforcement would turn against their people like that and the government would turn against their people like that.
	The only reason we went was just to be heard.
	You know, this is our country too.
	And there's another side to this story that nobody's talking about and nobody's listening to.
	And it's hurting real people and real families.
	And so, you know, for them to have just, you know, brushed their hands of us and, you know, crushed us.
	What I love, during the commission, Trudeau said they didn't want to be listened.
	They didn't want to be heard.
	They wanted to be obeyed.
	And I'm sitting there shouting at my computer, like, how the hell would you know you never listened to them in the first place?
	You're in jail in solitary because of COVID, because that's the safe thing to do.
	Waiting for your decision from this judge who is taking her long weekend.
	I didn't know it was taking her long weekend to make sure she gets it right.
	You get in front of the judge after this horrendous weekend of both living conditions and learning how the convoy ultimately was suffocated.
	What happens in the judge's ruling?
	Well, in her ruling, she said my community 12 times.
	She felt like I was too dangerous to be let back into her community, her community, her community, which I felt was unusual language for a judge.
	Unusual language for the capital of the country.
	It's her community.
	It's not our capital.
	Exactly.
	And I was literally shocked at how she just came down on me and tore up one side of me and down the other and was talking about having a lengthy prison sentence.
	I was shocked.
	Chris had gone in.
	I think he spent a night in jail and he was released and sent on his way the next day.
	So I think I was sort of expecting that that same thing was going to happen.
	And nope, she denied me bail.
	And back to jail I went for another 18 days I was in jail for in the wintertime.
	She denied you bail.
	What were your charges?
	The initial charge was counseling to commit mischief.
	I just want to say it again so everybody understands this.
	Counseling to commit mischief.
	It's not committing mischief, which itself can be lesser or greater mischievous behavior.
	Counseling to commit mischief.
	It's nothing but an Orwellian thought crime.
	Everybody, I'm not hiding.
	This is not bias anymore.
	This is an educated opinion.
	It's nothing but an Orwellian thought crime.
	Counseling to commit mischief, what are the charges?
	Because they can't keep you in on mere speech crime.
	Well, that's what they originally charged me, and then it was a few weeks later that they actually charged me with mischief, because I guess it's really hard to charge someone with counselling to commit a crime that didn't exist, right?
	You could have told people to do something.
	They didn't do it, but you still go to jail.
	No bail.
	Oh, I'm trying not to swear.
	No bail for counselling to commit mischief and mischief.
	Not attempted murder of a police officer.
	Not running a van into protesters who got bailed.
	You're in jail, and so you're in for 18 days before they give you your freedom under conditions which can hardly be called freedom.
	Well, it definitely wasn't freedom.
	I mean, I was released from jail, but I'm not free.
	I'm not free.
	So, 18 days, what were those 18 days like?
	Were they better conditions, or was it solitary because you're still in there for COVID, so two weeks, 14 days, you've got to be alone because of COVID?
	Well, it's funny how their policies change depending on, you know, if they need the space or not.
	It's very pragmatic, COVID.
	It is.
	Yes, it is.
	And so I was down there.
	I think I was in solitary confinement for about a week, four or five days, I think.
	And then there was a lady who was also named Kamara, actually, that came in about the same time that I did, and she was in the cell next to me down in the dungeon.
	So because, you know, science, because we came in at the same time and we weren't showing any symptoms, they took us up to cell block.
	And then we were in cell block for a little while there, too, before we went to dorms.
	And I remember they came and she'd been vaccinated so she could go ahead and go and they came to ask me if I wanted to go to dorms and I just had to take a test and I said no thanks I'll stay here.
	That was back when they were telling us that the jibby jab would prevent you from contracting.
	Oh, my goodness.
	18 days.
	How does it end up that you actually get out?
	I think I remember the time you appealed the refusal, or was it a separate motion for reassessing the bail?
	We did a bail review.
	We had a bail review hearing.
	So, yeah.
	And then we ended up winning that one.
	I can't remember what that judge, I think his name was Philip.
	No.
	That's so many.
	I've had such a way to keep track of all my judges.
	It's just like my lawyers.
	18 days, the bail that they gave you was you could go.
	You had to go back home.
	You had to have a certee.
	There was some debate over the certee.
	There's still some publication ban issues, which we don't need to get into.
	I think you could not come to Ottawa unless it was to see your lawyers.
	I'm not sure.
	I think that was you or other detainees, political prisoners.
	You had to put down some money.
	You couldn't attend any political rallies.
	You couldn't organize anything.
	You couldn't go on social media.
	You could not discuss anything of the situation.
	How long were those terms imposed on you for?
	Well, a lot of them were amended so that I could go to the POEC.
	Well, the Ontario and the Ottawa ones, because I was actually banned from Ottawa and Ontario.
	And so we had to have that changed because I was offered...
	The JCCF wanted to present me with the George Jonas Freedom Award.
	And also at that time, my youngest daughter had applied to university in Ottawa and was accepted.
	So we had another bail hearing to go back.
	I can't remember what it's called now.
	Sorry, it's been a while.
	Material change of circumstance.
	So we filed a material change of circumstance to try to have some of those changed.
	The social media ban, for one.
	Obviously, the Ontario and Ottawa ones.
	And they were changed.
	They were amended a little bit to let me back.
	So I'm now allowed to come to Ontario, which I just got here today.
	They were changed.
	Some people might suggest deliberately to entrap you because they allowed you to go to the JCCF Gallup to accept your award, but there were still some restrictions on it.
	And your attendance at that award, where I think you talked to Tom Marazzo, who's another individual who got caught up in all this, resulted in...
	What's that prosecutor's name?
	I can hear his voice, but I don't want to remember his name.
	Karimji.
	Karimji.
	Seeking to have you re-incarcerated for alleged breach of your bail terms because you talked with Tom Maratzo, even though counsel was present.
	And I remember listening to that.
	I remember where I was in Montreal.
	It was down on Green Avenue in St. Catherine.
	I'm sitting on a bench, and I cannot believe what I'm listening to.
	A prosecutor seeking to have you put back in jail because you took a photo with Tom Marazzo and had a discussion with another Canadian.
	But we had a hearing in May where he actually wanted me arrested on breach for just agreeing to accept the award.
	For just agreeing to go and accept the award because he felt like that was supporting the convoy.
	Well, there was no convoy left to support.
	There was also the issue about you having received that necklace in the mail that said...
	Are you wearing it?
	I wear it all the time.
	I think I feel bad at the time where there was some discussion that it was either a reckless donation or attempt to sabotage you.
	Have you been in touch with the people who gave you the necklace and are they of good faith in your view?
	Oh, no.
	She was the nicest lady.
	Never intended for that to happen whatsoever.
	She is a Canadian citizen that lives in Thailand.
	She was not allowed to come and see her kids.
	She hadn't seen her kids in two years.
	And she had a jewelry company.
	And so this is the first one she made and she sent it to me.
	And no, there was absolutely nothing nefarious about that.
	That was just like a...
	No, because I remember some people were saying it was sort of, first of all, everybody's a grifter on the internet apparently, but they were saying that this was an attempt to grift off.
	Okay, good.
	So if you've made peace with her, then nobody else should have any cause for grief or for suspicion.
	No, there was no nefarious intention there at all.
	She just asked for the photo.
	And when did you get hauled back to jail for breach of your, you did get hauled back to jail.
	I did on June 27th.
	Actually, a year ago today, I was still sitting in jail last summer.
	How long did you get kept in there for that time?
	30 days last summer.
	For what reason?
	If you can tell the world that we'll not believe your answer.
	I was allegedly for breaching my conditions because of that photo with Mr. Morazzo.
	I cannot rage hard enough at the fact that you...
	It's non-violent mischief charges because there are different types of mischief.
	Detained for 18 days initially.
	Denied bail.
	You cannot leave jail.
	You've been accused of mischief, not convicted of mischief.
	You can't leave jail.
	Then they get you allegedly on alleged breach of absolute hogwash of restrictions for your bail.
	And then they haul you back in front of the 30 days.
	And I remember listening to this thinking that Karimji was prosecuting the Bernardos.
	He was prosecuting the crime of the millennia in Canada.
	30 days.
	What's that like?
	How do you get through 30 days?
	What I said earlier on, I was going to ask your age, your mother, your grandmother.
	Not that you deserve special treatment.
	You sure as hell don't deserve persecution.
	How do you get through 30 days away from your kid, away from your grandkid, and what is that like, and how do you survive that ordeal?
	Lots of praying and lots of meditating and lots of patience.
	A day at a time, honestly.
	Sometimes it's an hour at a time.
	I read a lot.
	I read the Bible when I was in there.
	I kept a journal this time when I was there.
	Once I got to dorms, dorms is a little bit less.
	There's other girls in there and there's games.
	You can play games.
	You can watch TV.
	You can use the phone.
	So you have a little bit more freedom, if you want to call it that.
	But it was long, yeah.
	But I made sure I kept a diary and I wrote everything down.
	And it was really difficult for me to call my kids because I don't think it matters who you are or why you're in jail.
	You know, that's not a proud moment to ever call your children from a jail cell, you know?
	Do you wake up sometimes thinking you're still in jail?
	I'm not trying to be funny.
	Is there a lingering trauma that something sets you off, a smell of that cellar that you were in for the first time?
	Are there things that trigger distinct memories and almost traumatic flashbacks?
	I don't think I'm traumatized.
	I mean, not yet.
	I've got a long ways to go yet.
	We still have a lot of stuff that we have to get through.
	You know, honestly, I probably need some therapy, but I feel okay.
	I feel level-headed and I feel okay.
	And I don't think I still have actually sat down and just had my holy crap moment.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, after all of this, I just haven't had that, like, what was that?
	So I'm sure it's coming.
	But for right now, I mean, I need to stay focused.
	We've got a big trial coming up and I need to stay focused and I need to stay positive.
	So, let's get to that.
	I mean, there's two things.
	You've written a book about this, which, full disclosure, I haven't read because I can't read anymore.
	So, when the audiobook comes out, I'm going to get it, if it hasn't already come out tomorrow.
	As soon as I get it finished.
	So, you wrote a book.
	It's called...
	Hold on, I have it in the backdrop.
	It is called Hold the Line.
	Yes.
	Oh, I was going to say as a joke, like when they added a charge, was it because you said hold the line as they're hauling you off?
	That was aiding...
	Counseling mischief.
	Because hold the line is mischief.
	Honk honk is an alliteration for Hail Hitler.
	And any language that the far right uses, however innocuous, is a threat against humanity.
	You wrote the book.
	And the other issue is you still got a trial coming up.
	So first of all, writing a book, did you take your notes from when you were in jail?
	I mean, was it like amassing a diary?
	Or do you go sit away for a couple of weeks and just put it all down, let it all out?
	Well, I had a ghostwriter who helped with it.
	And so we would meet every day and just discuss everything that happened and go through everything.
	I did supply him with a copy of my diary.
	So there is parts of my diary from my last arrest in it.
	And it was very therapeutic.
	It was a very therapeutic experience.
	And again, because of all the lies that were told, it was just so important to get that story out.
	I think it's such an important story for, you know, I mean, one of the biggest things that happened was the freezing of the bank accounts with no parliamentary oversight and no court order from a judge.
	And I don't think anyone ever thought that they would see that happen in Canada.
	And so if that can happen in Canada, the most peaceful and polite country on the planet, it can happen anywhere.
	It's nothing but Chinese dictatorship.
	Period.
	And, you know, when Justin invoked the Emergencies Act, he says, here's what it does not mean.
	We're not suspending charter rights and freedoms.
	Bullshit.
	That's all that it was.
	We're not bringing in the military.
	Bullshit.
	You didn't bring in the military.
	You bought in a highly militarized police, drones, armored trucks, you know, stormtroopers.
	You did everything you said you weren't doing and then some.
	And freezing of the bank accounts with no due diligence, not no due diligence, sorry, no due process, no oversight.
	No court authorization.
	And immunizing the banks for doing it, it's nothing but the basic dictatorship that Justin Trudeau admires so much in China.
	And I think people understand that.
	And I've seen an interview you gave with Ruben.
	You highlighted the crux is that that might have been the bridge too far because there was a massive run on the banks, which, from what I understand, did lead some of the higher-ups to call Trudeau and say, What the hell are you doing?
	We don't have the money in the back to give the people who are pulling their money.
	That's my understanding also, yep.
	If you meet a ghostwriter daily and talk about it, that's therapy.
	That might be even better therapy than you'll get from a therapist because therapists are crazy and they tend to want to prescribe drugs that are probably best off to avoid.
	Now, you've still got a trial date coming up.
	Do you have a trial date for your mischief and counseling mischief?
	Yes.
	Chris Barber and I will be traveling to Ottawa in the end of August, and we start trial on September the 5th.
	Damn it, I kind of want to attend that, but I'm going to be back down south of the border by then.
	How many days is your trial scheduled for?
	Well, I just found out yesterday they're trying to add some more days, so now it looks like we'll be going into November.
	So we sit the first three weeks of September.
	There's a two-week break, and then we've got three days, and then I guess there's going to be another break, and then we're going to go into November.
	So you have an aggregate, a one-month criminal trial on mischief charges.
	Some murder trials last longer, or shorter.
	Oh my god, but nothing's too good for our tax dollars then.
	Squandered political persecutions.
	Chris Barber and you were standing trial together as co-defendants.
	Are you using the same counsel?
	No, we have separate counsel.
	We did start off with the same counsel, but my concern is because Diane is a fantastic lawyer and I love her.
	But my concern was because this was such a huge, huge file.
	I mean, you know, you're a legal professional.
	You can understand and appreciate how much work it is just for one client going to trial.
	So, you know, we made that call and I found a different lawyer.
	My main concern always is ethics and conflict of interest.
	And the issue is, although you might be ideologically and even defensively aligned, conceivable you might have defenses that might run contrary to the interests of the other.
	I don't know what agreements you've signed in terms of renouncing any throwing the other under the bus, so to speak, or attributing to the other what is being accused of you.
	That's ridiculous.
	Okay, so I didn't realize the trial was going to be that long.
	I know people are going to be there following it, so I'll know who to contact for this.
	Okay, so you got your criminal trial coming up.
	That's a long time since you've been arrested.
	You still got the civil trial.
	What stage of the proceedings is the class action at?
	Has it been certified?
	I don't think so.
	No, not yet.
	It hasn't been certified yet, no.
	So I don't really know what's going on with that.
	I mean, we haven't heard anything for a while, so...
	Because, I mean, if it's a class action, it's got to get certified unless it's just going to be a joiner of actions from a bunch of plaintiffs, in which case, wow, okay, amazing.
	You wrote the book.
	How did it feel writing the book, and what has been the reception thus far?
	Well, like I said, it was very therapeutic, I think, writing it, and I'm just so pleased.
	You know, I remember when we were talking about it, and we thought, well, it's...
	I think Ezra said he wanted it to be about 200 pages, and I was like, there is no way, there is no way we can fit this into 200 pages.
	I mean, it's just too massive of a story.
	And we did.
	I'm really proud of it.
	I love the resource links.
	You know, if you don't believe what I'm saying, you can go to the website, it's right on the bottom of the page, and you can check it out for yourself.
	And the reception has been absolutely incredible.
	I've done a few book signings already.
	And people just are coming out in droves to, you know, to meet me and talk to me and buy the book and get it signed.
	And it's just, it's been an amazing reception.
	And so now I'm back in Ontario to start another, we're going to be doing about 10, 12 days worth of book signing events around Ontario.
	I presume you have good counsel.
	Not I presume.
	I know you have good counsel.
	You're operating within the limits of what you're under in terms of restrictions.
	What are the restrictions that you're still under pending your trial?
	Well, I'm still banned from social media.
	I am not allowed to post.
	I'm not allowed to log in, post, or ask somebody to post on my behalf to any social media.
	I surely have to go through my devices.
	And make sure that I'm not on social media, that I'm not talking to anybody that I'm not supposed to be talking to or breaching my conditions in any way.
	I am not allowed to move out of my rented house until I have to either live there or in my 30s basement.
	I'm not allowed to organize a rally or attend a rally or a protest or a convoy or anything like that.
	Yeah.
	Just so people know, it's Kafkaesque Orwellian madness.
	Nothing short of it.
	Tamara, you stayed longer than we had anticipated.
	If I may go over to Rumble, there's a bunch of these things called Rumble Rants.
	Do you have a few more minutes?
	Yeah, for sure.
	Okay, awesome.
	Let me see these.
	I cannot not read these.
	Nike7 says, much love, Tamara.
	You are the spark that saved the heart of Canada.
	Canada's mom, Nike7.
	Maggie today says, thank you for all you have done for Canadians, Tamara.
	You and all involved in the Trucker Convoy United Canucks from coast to coast.
	Hope your book is delivered by Transports.
	Shisco is requesting charter rights called being an activist.
	LOL.
	Did police guide you to park and then block you in Shisco?
	I guess that means when you were arrested.
	Did they guide you to the park and then block you in?
	I don't know if that means that.
	I think what you're talking about is when we first arrived in Ottawa and like when we had been planning the convoy, we had planned to have the bulk of the trucks parked outside.
	You know, there was lots of farmers that had cleared, you know, some land for us in different places where we were going to park.
	And then we get to Ottawa and the cops led us straight up to Parliament Hill and all those residential streets.
	Like they gave us maps and showed us where to park.
	People are asking, isn't this social media?
	You're obviously allowed doing interviews?
	Yes, yeah.
	Okay.
	I had asked beforehand, people.
	Okay, then Alex David Duke, another wonderful chat, says, Alex, again, David, thank you for interviewing Tamara, Canada's greatest hero since Terry Fox.
	Sen Jouadama says, hey, Tamara, can you talk about the organic part of the convoy, how people were naturally inclined to reach or support in any way?
	What made people so engaged?
	I think we got to that, but what do you think?
	I mean, what made people so engaged?
	Well, I think, you know, after two years of living like that, people had had enough.
	More and more evidence was coming out against, not against it, but, you know, that there could be different options, different treatments.
	The rest of the world, I mean, a lot of other countries were starting to ease the restrictions when the Liberal government started imposing even harsher restrictions on us.
	And again, I think, you know...
	So many people were suffering.
	You know, they were close to suicide.
	They had developed addictions.
	They were lonely.
	They were depressed.
	And when they saw this happen and they saw, you know, people doing something, they really threw their support behind it.
	And I think, you know, even people that donated money, everyone wanted to feel like they were a part of it somehow.
	And if they couldn't drive in the convoy, they walked out to the highway or they went to an overpass.
	And if they weren't able to do that, they donated money.
	Everybody really wanted to feel like they were a part of it, I feel.
	It was so organic.
	It was organic.
	And then what really got the Americans in was having a government shut down your fundraising and saying, sorry, you don't get to make political contributions or donations to a federally incorporated not-for-profit.
	Oi!
	Honk the sound of freedom from Shisco.
	Shisco says, It's incredible friendships and uniting that's been born from the Freedom Convoy.
	Run, Scotty Run, Table 19, War Campaign, etc.
	Honk, East, Met, West.
	Canada is beautiful to see.
	Shisco Convoy gave us hope.
	It's not going to be taken away ever again.
	Thank you.
	Touch the Riot says, I tried two times to donate to the convoy, but they were rejected by Go F Me.
	And give send go.
	Mrs. Leach, you're a true inspiration.
	Any way to donate, To you or the convoy still, I'm in Texas.
	God love you.
	Tamara, don't answer that, but you can get the book and get the book, and that's not a donation.
	That is a piece of history.
	Kevin says, Revin Kevin from Shisco.
	Shisco says, I've got sand in my eye.
	Great video, folks, from Yamaha.
	Nike7, I wanted to troll you, Viva.
	That day mowed your lawn.
	You did better, so props.
	And then says, I'm buying your book, Tamara.
	Greatest women in our modern times.
	I care.
	And then I got it.
	There's a few questions in our locals community here.
	We've got another here.
	Let's see.
	We've got Steve Britton says, as someone who attended and live-streamed from the convoy protest in Milk River, I am disgusted by the way you and the Coots Four have been treated.
	Keep up the good fight, Tamara.
	Mandelichi says, Ancestry.com found a longtime mystery cousin was adopted from my mom's side.
	It was a surreal moment from my brother, whom did his Ancestry background for shits and giggles.
	Promoting growth of any part of Canada other than Ontario, And Quebec is forbidden by the Liberals.
	It creates economic migration and voters in writings outside of those two hegemonic provinces potentially jeopardizing their stranglehold on power.
	Interesting.
	I suspect this is why they always regulate BC forestry, Alberta oil, and Eastern fisheries out of business.
	That's from Big Bad Teddy.
	That's a very interesting idea, actually.
	Mandelichi says, did Tamara get debanked?
	Yeah, well, are you debanked now or you had your bank account frozen?
	It was frozen, yeah.
	PayPal kicked me off their service.
	PayPal kicked me off their service last summer.
	I had been actually in the process of leaving TD Bank right around the same time the Convoy started because I was not a fan of the big five.
	I think they're all corrupt organizations, and so I was leaving.
	The bank that I did go to is actually owned by one of them.
	I didn't realize that at the time.
	But it's one of those, you know, no fee, everything's online things.
	You boycotted Bud Light to get, I don't know, what's the other one there?
	I can't think of another.
	Stella Artois.
	It's like, it's what Tyler Durden described in Fight Club.
	It's like, the same corporations own everything.
	You have no choice, and they have total control over you.
	But other than the freezing...
	Actually, what I find even more scary about my bank account being frozen was Jeremy McKenzie's girlfriend.
	It's alarming enough that Jeremy was debanked, but then his girlfriend is debanked?
	Why?
	Just for being his girlfriend?
	People don't get outraged about this.
	I'm going to have Jeremy back on because I had to double-check the tweet that I saw.
	I double-checked him.
	Yeah, just like that, debanked.
	Now, you're fortunate.
	They only froze your account.
	You're not debanked.
	But can you imagine that?
	It's not an essential service to have a financial institution.
	I bet you Paul Bernardo's got a bank account.
	I bet you Carla Hamalka's got a bank account.
	I was rejected when we got back.
	I went to try and open an account at a provincial bank in Alberta.
	I was rejected.
	They wouldn't let me open an account.
	I don't know how you find the strength that you found or you retain the optimism that you have.
	Do you remain optimistic for the future of Canada?
	Absolutely, I do.
	And I will address that quickly.
	A lot of people do come up to me and they say, well, how do you stay so positive and happy?
	And I said, well, what are my options?
	What is my option?
	I can give you an option.
	No, just get angry.
	But I can be angry and still be positive.
	You know, you can still be angry and channel it in a healthy way.
	And I don't think I'm an angry person.
	I mean, don't get me wrong.
	I'm not a pushover and I can lose my temper.
	Just ask my husband.
	But, you know, level heads prevail.
	And I need to be logical and less emotional right now, I think.
	But I do have a lot of hope.
	And I'll tell you why.
	Because we're being hammered in Canada right now with all this crap.
	Stephen Gobert, Bill C-11, Bill C-18, C-36 in D.C., all this stuff is just the proposed gun legislation.
	It's almost mind-boggling, but it's all coming now, which tells me that these people are panicking, and they're going to try and ram through as quick as they possibly can.
	And if they're panicking, they're going to make a mistake.
	I think that's a good thing.
	And they should be panicking.
	They should be afraid.
	You know?
	Canadians are beautiful, caring people, but we do have a line.
	We do have a line.
	Well, this, and I know, so no one misunderstands this, I know you mean this in a political way, which actually leads me to the next question.
	You must get asked this all the time.
	When are you running for office?
	And for what position?
	I mean, I don't know that anybody wants to...
	I did it.
	And I did it so that no one could say you didn't do it before you made your own life decisions.
	A life of politics is only slightly more disgusting than a life of law.
	Nobody should wish it on their worst enemy, but you might not have a choice.
	Do you see that in your future?
	Well, I sure hope not.
	I agree with you.
	I mean, I've always said the problem with politics is it's full of politicians, and that's just something that I never wanted to be.
	And I think it would hobble me too much, you know, unless the way things are done change somehow, you know, unless there is maybe, you know, the rules change or something.
	But I think I'm better in a support role and throwing my support behind, you know, somebody that I feel is a good leader for this country.
	I'm just not sure about who that is yet.
	I mean, I'm sure who it isn't.
	And I'm not going to ask, I'm not, I don't, you know, the infighting, if you, I'm not going to ask, it's none of my business, but I think we can all agree, Justin Trudeau is the worst person in the history of Canada.
	And that includes, that includes two other infamous names.
	We've got one more, it's Steve Britton in our Locals community says, hold the line, and that is his opinion and his opinion only.
	And then we've got Martha says, Tamara, thank you so much for all you gave to us.
	I am a nurse who was forced to take the shots while pregnant.
	My baby girl was born at home on my bed because my husband was not allowed in the hospital where I work due to being unvaxxed.
	She was born on Friday, January 28th.
	I hope this doesn't make me cry.
	This is 2022.
	I watched the trucks arriving in Ottawa through the streamers on the ground, and it felt like you were there for us.
	I didn't look up the meaning of Caroline before naming her.
	It means free man.
	And Mandelichi says, Stay strong, Tamara.
	It will make you a better person and guide those being quiet.
	Much love to you.
	Okay, Tamara.
	Did I forget anything?
	I think I've been pretty thorough.
	Have I forgotten to ask you anything that I'm going to kick myself in the butt when we're done and say, Frank, what did you do?
	Is there anything we didn't talk?
	Oh, hold on.
	It's coming back.
	There was something else.
	It had to do with going back.
	Oh, forget it.
	I'll get it in a second.
	Is there anything that I should have been asking you that you want to say that I haven't asked you?
	I think we've just about covered everything.
	That was it.
	Faith.
	I didn't ask you this.
	Faith as a young person.
	Were your parents religious or, I say not a newfound faith, or is the faith not born out of necessity, but is it a new thing?
	Were you a religious family growing up?
	I used to go to church every Saturday night and Sunday morning when I was younger.
	And I went a lot of times by myself.
	I was baptized Roman Catholic and Saturday night I was a part of the CYO, the youth organization in Saskatchewan in the town that I was at.
	And, you know, just a local group.
	And then, of course, as I got older I drifted away from church and stuff.
	But we've been going back, you know, my husband actually went to two years of Bible college after he graduated from high school.
	And so we started going to church actually through the pandemic in Manitoba when we could, because of course it was week by week whether it was shut down or you could attend.
	But because for me this was just such a divine experience, I've always been spiritual.
	I'm a Reiki master teacher.
	You know, I've always believed in healing, and so I have a bit of a different belief system, maybe.
	But what I have decided, and nobody really knows this, but what I have decided, we've been going to a church in our community in Medicine Hat, the only church, as far as I know, that stayed open.
	They were threatened with fines, they were threatened with arrest, but our pastor refused, and so...
	We're going to this fantastic church, and I've just asked them about becoming a member and perhaps getting re-baptized.
	It is beautiful.
	Pam Walker from our Locals community says, "Tell her we will be praying for her." You're going to have a month-long trial where even a conviction...
	I don't know.
	I don't know how long anybody could reasonably think they can send someone to jail for counseling mischief and mischief.
	I don't even know what the facts of the mischief are.
	What are they alleging you did by mischief?
	Raise money?
	Organize this protest?
	I mean, that's the mischief.
	Oh, Tamara.
	I don't know.
	It's all nonsense.
	It's just nonsense.
	It's rubbish.
	It's rubbish.
	Canada has been...
	Destroyed from within, from the top down.
	It's going to be built back from the bottom up.
	And you are that catalyst.
	You are that force multiplier.
	At the protest, one of the military guys called me a force multiplier.
	And I had never heard the word before.
	And I think it's probably one of the greatest compliments that I've ever heard.
	You are a force multiplier in that you are...
	I hope people are becoming not sensitized, but rather awakened to what you went through and the treatment that you have.
	I still know too many people who think You're a bad person.
	I don't know what it takes to wake them up.
	It's going to take the boot on their neck and not just the neck of their neighbor.
	What do you have planned next?
	You're going to do a little more book tours.
	You did Jordan Peterson.
	You did Dave Rubin.
	Who else did you hit up in the States when you were down there?
	I did a lot of radio shows down there.
	It was fantastic.
	I'll be on Dave Ramsey.
	I'm going to be interviewed by him tomorrow.
	That's pretty exciting.
	And yeah, and then we're going to be busy traveling around Canada for this book tour.
	We've got a couple weeks out here, almost a couple weeks here, and then heading to BC, and then basically getting ready to head back to Ottawa.
	For your one-month trial on mischief, my goodness.
	I was going to say, like, the things I did as a teenager that I never, you know, it was a different time, and but for the grace of God, if I had gotten caught, you know, my life might have been different.
	Far, far worse than...
	Okay, I'm making jokes now.
	Well, and I joked with my parents.
	I remember when I first called my mom and dad from jail, you know, you were asking if I was a bit of a rebel.
	I mean, I was not a horrible kid doing a lot of illegal activity, but it was funny.
	When I called my mom, I'm like, well, mom, we knew this call was coming one day.
	We just thought maybe it would be like 30 years ago.
	No, it's amazing.
	You said you're never proud calling family from prison.
	Under your circumstances, it's a badge of honor, but I don't think people understand what they did to you and what they're doing to the coups for.
	People can justify the coups for because the charges are more serious than mischief, but trumped up politicized bullshit charges will always be trumped up politicized bullshit charges, whether it's conspiracy to murder.
	And I know I'm prejudging a little bit.
	I'm prejudging it because I've seen what they've done on the mischief charges.
	It's the same system.
	Okay, I'm going to go relax now.
	I've been told to meditate, but I'm my own worst enemy.
	I can't do it.
	I try.
	I feel crazy when I meditate.
	Tamara, you'll keep me up to date, and if there's any news, you'll let me know, and come back on whenever you can, whenever you want?
	Absolutely, I will.
	Yeah, we should definitely touch base just before or during or right after the trial, definitely.
	Oh, let's go before.
	I'll follow it during, because you don't want to talk about it during a trial.
	Right, true.
	Yeah, post-mortem afterwards.
	Okay.
	Look, I'm in a struggle between belief in God and some faith or just a broader optimism.
	I'm trying to remain optimistic, but I really feel that black pill creeping up more and more every day.
	But I'll try to remain optimistic, looking at you, remaining optimistic after all you've gone through.
	I know our community will be praying for you.
	I'm told that that has cosmic effects.
	So know it.
	Know it, and they're all doing it.
	We'll keep talking.
	We'll keep letting the world know what's going on and screaming into that abyss.
	Awesome.
	Fantastic.
	Thank you so much.
	Stick around.
	Thank you.
	Stick around.
	We'll say our proper goodbyes afterwards.
	Everyone out there, locals, Rumble, thank you.
	Go spread the word.
	Spread the story.
	Snip, clip, and share away.

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