Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

July 24, 2023 - Viva & Barnes

01:59:31

Live with Jason Lavigne - Couts Four

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Watch us all go to sleep And any who woke We're just counting cheap But the end is near And all we see is Our hate is a disgrace We don't
	have time to waste If we don't learn to love again It's all over for us Good morning, good morning, good morning everybody How you doing?
	Well, I'm not Viva.
	There's a whole bunch of you who are expecting Viva.
	I'm not Viva, but Viva's here.
	I'd like to thank Viva, first of all, for allowing us to go ahead and stream and join our show this morning.
	If you're wondering who we are, we are the KOOTS4 team who are exploring the political prisoners here in Alberta and the entire situation around them.
	You get to see them right here.
	We've got Jerry, Tony, Chris Leipzig, and Chris Carver.
	And what we're doing here is we're trying to bring the truth to everybody.
	They're in trial this week.
	They get to start at 2 p.m. today on Monday.
	We get to start a trial.
	So we're here to find out what's going on, bring this information to you, and have a good chat about it.
	And today we got the pleasure of having Viva Frye join us, and we also have Harrison Faulkner from True North joining us.
	So we get to talk about the details, what's out there, what's not out there, and get some of the stuff correct.
	I was on Viva just a couple days ago, and as a good, responsible journalist, I made a couple errors.
	I made a couple errors.
	And we don't like fake news.
	Not at all.
	So we're...
	Clean it up.
	This is going to be the correct the record episode where we go ahead and touch on the items that we got wrong.
	And for starters, I got my own age wrong.
	We make mistakes as journalists.
	So yeah, we'll be correcting that as well.
	We have Donald Best joining us.
	We have Granny McKay and we also have Danielle who's going to be making sure we get all the facts straight.
	And we've got some breaking news.
	We were going through Danielle's notes last night, and there was a particular thing that happened that she wasn't quite sure about the terminology, but then when she shared it with me, it's amazing news.
	So we'll be breaking that with you this morning as well.
	Now, are you aware of the COUDS 4?
	If you're not, if you're on Viva's channel, you might not know who it is.
	But these are four gentlemen who were arrested during the COUDS blockade, and they were charged with conspiracy to commit murder, among other charges.
	And they're still currently being held.
	This is day 526 of being held in reman, which is a type of purgatory.
	Because it's not prison.
	It's before prison.
	And it's a little bit harsher, a little bit less set up for living.
	And that's where they are right now for 526 days.
	And what we're doing here is we're trying to get the truth out.
	Because for quite some time, the media said that there was a media ban.
	We looked into it.
	We're now doing our 21st episode on this particular matter because there is no media ban.
	There's a publication ban on a couple items, but not a straight-up media ban.
	So thanks to Viva and Newsweek and others, and True North who's joining us today, we're able to get this information out.
	Now what I'm going to do is I'm going to go ahead and bring in the core team, and then we'll bring our guests in.
	So good morning, Granny.
	Good morning, Donald.
	Good morning.
	And good morning, Danielle.
	How's everybody today?
	I haven't had my coffee yet.
	You're in a different location.
	You heard my story.
	3am, I'm sorry.
	I'm not as bad as Donald, but I got some go-go juice.
	Well, it looks like three of us are not in our normal location, so I'm not in my studio.
	So I'm on the road.
	I'm in Lethbridge.
	I'm normally up on my fifth wheel that has a studio.
	Granny, you're in a car, so you're not at home either.
	So you're down here in Lethbridge.
	Yes, I am.
	And then, Danielle, you're outside, but you're home.
	Is that your home?
	No, I'm in Lethbridge.
	So look at that, three of us travel to Lethbridge.
	Don, you're not in Lethbridge, are you?
	No, no, but you know my story.
	We looked at each other last night and said at about 10 o 'clock, we're responsible human beings.
	We can watch just the first episode of the new Indian detective series and then we'll go to bed.
	Honest.
	Yeah, how'd that work out?
	You saw my 3am email.
	Yeah, okay.
	Yeah, you're researching, right?
	That's research for another story.
	Research.
	More coffee.
	Indian Cop Series.
	You got me.
	Excellent.
	Well, good morning, Don.
	Thanks for being here.
	So we're going to go ahead now and bring in Harrison Faulkner from True North Media.
	And then I'll change the screen up a little bit.
	And good morning, Viva Frye, who happens to be in Canada right now.
	Good morning, Viva.
	How's it going?
	Morning.
	Good morning.
	It's an early one for you, right?
	It's earlier than normal.
	But Jason, just check your mic.
	You might be not on your Shure mic.
	Oh, thank you.
	Let me check that right now.
	It's possible.
	I don't know.
	The sound is good enough.
	You're correct.
	You're correct.
	Well, I read the private chat.
	Someone else picked it up.
	There we go.
	How's that?
	Is that much better?
	And Harrison.
	So first of all, Granny, we met and we've been texting each other and I have not put two and two together because I didn't have your contact as a saved contact in my phone.
	You are the person that we texted.
	Yes, we actually met in Ottawa.
	No, that much, I recollect vaguely, there were a lot of people there.
	I remember Harrison.
	I definitely ran into Harrison a couple of times at various protests.
	Good to see you again, Viva.
	The same, the same.
	And good morning, Harrison.
	Thank you for joining us.
	And you reached out to us a few days ago.
	You created a video where you're starting to talk with the Coots again.
	So thank you very much for reaching out.
	Of course.
	Well, thank you guys for covering this so diligently and being in communication with these four men.
	It's the kind of thing that, although we didn't spend as much time covering it leading up to this week, now, if ever, is the time to really pay attention to this.
	So thanks for having me on.
	Happy to chat with what's going on.
	Thank you very much for joining us.
	And then, Donald, thanks for joining us as well.
	Do you want to kind of give people a little update on who you are?
	There's a big audience here who may not know who you are yet.
	Sure.
	I'm a former sergeant detective with the Toronto Police.
	Then I spent about 20 years as a private investigator and traveling the world, doing undercover jobs against organized crime, same as I did when I was a police officer.
	Oh, yeah, I spent 63 days in prison, solitary confinement, for contempt of court in Canada.
	I was vindicated, fully vindicated, but I spent 63 days in solitary.
	Sorry about that, Donald.
	And yeah, it's quite an interesting story.
	If you haven't heard that yet, you can check some of our previous episodes.
	Good morning, Granny.
	And you want to kind of let everybody know who you are.
	I think we lost your audio.
	There we go.
	Got her.
	Yes.
	Well, I ended up being the...
	I call myself the surrogate to the four men that are in jail.
	I became the grandma that was screaming from everywhere in every corner of Canada trying to get detention for an hour.
	And I do say they are our four Alberta family man.
	We will get them back.
	So if you can share, share, share, and keep sharing and sharing until they get out.
	So thank you.
	Yeah.
	And then Danielle.
	Granny's never normally tongue-tied.
	That's pretty interesting.
	So, Danielle, you're on mute.
	And good morning, Danielle.
	You want to let everybody know who you are?
	Good morning.
	Just to make it easy for you, there's 1.1 thousand people watching on Beebos Channel.
	And I'm like half awake.
	Good morning, everybody.
	I've known Tony my whole life.
	And, you know, we were in contact in Coots.
	And when he didn't come home...
	After everybody else did, it just kind of sparked something in me where I just had to find out what the truth was and got to know the other families and from day one just started kind of documenting everything I could and getting involved in that way and recently kind of pulled everything that I had together and started sharing more and, you know, sat in court and took notes the whole time and really got kind of involved in learning about the law.
	What was normal in this and what wasn't normal in this?
	I don't know how else to describe it.
	It just kind of snowballed from the second he didn't answer my text on February 14th.
	So here we are.
	It's incredible.
	Yeah, until everybody knows.
	And that very day, as we're kind of wondering where Tony was at and why wasn't it?
	We're hearing rumors about what happened in Coots.
	The Emergencies Act had been invoked, and oddly enough, I was watching Viva's show throughout all of that in Ottawa and saw some things with my eyes live that completely changed me.
	And I was on Viva, and we found some errors, so we're going to go over those.
	But you also found some interesting news last night when we were going through your notebooks, because you take very good detailed notes while you're in court.
	Do you want to kind of tell them what word we found in there?
	And then I'll go ahead and have maybe even Viva explain to us what that means.
	Oh, yeah.
	I was looking through the notes for something else and kind of came up on the mention of a reclusion application, and it was in regards to an application that the defense had made.
	And I just kind of mentioned to Jason, well, what is this reclusion application?
	Recusal.
	What am I saying?
	I was just about to Google that term because that was a foreign legal concept.
	Recusal is something I'm a little more familiar with.
	What was it saying?
	Something else is early for you.
	That's fine.
	But what we found out their visa was the defense made a recusal application for the Crown, both of them.
	They actually did it on consent.
	So the Crown did it on consent.
	So he's actually been recused from the case.
	So I didn't know until then whether or not he was off officially or just off for now.
	But with the recusal application being on consent, he's off.
	He's off.
	And not just him.
	You might want to back it up a few steps.
	Now, everybody in your channel knows what's going on.
	Everyone on my channel should.
	By the way, Jason, just checking the numbers from the Friday episode.
	It started off with Dr. Shiva Ayyaduria.
	And both of us, 150,000 views on that video.
	So most people watching even on my channel now probably know.
	But the 30,000-foot overview is the four individuals.
	There's two Chrises.
	There's two Chrises.
	There's Tony.
	And there's Jerry.
	The last names.
	I know there's Lysak Carbert.
	Tony's last name I get mixed up.
	And Jerry as well I get mixed up.
	Four men who were accused with conspiracy to commit murder.
	Back at the Coutts blockade in Alberta, back in the early stages, early days of the protest of the Ottawa blockade, have been in jail since.
	Now, the next step that I was going to say is they've been in remand, pre-trial detention, and everybody knows that.
	Now, the recusal is taking someone off of the case, prosecution or judge.
	This is new.
	The recusal, correct?
	Correct.
	So on June 29th is when we kind of found out that this was happening.
	So on June 29th, the Crown, Steve Johnson, was not there.
	And we were trying to find out what was happening with him.
	But now that we checked Danielle's notes, she actually took detailed notes.
	And yeah, there was recusal and it was on consent.
	So the Crown didn't even challenge.
	Well, that might be good.
	That might be bad.
	Because if they're recusing the prosecutor, I presume?
	Yes.
	They're going to have to find another prosecutor who might say, we're not ready to proceed to trial now, so give us another delay while these four men sit in jail.
	Sure, there may be new delays.
	Now, the hearing that's scheduled for this week is also not the trial date, Jason, correct?
	Correct.
	We're still pre-trial motions, and yeah, we're not looking at trial until May, June 2024.
	Those are the months that...
	Both sides are currently canvassing for new dates.
	So yeah, we're still pretrial motions here.
	Yeah, that's absurd.
	I guess also some news.
	I'd never gotten a prison call before, but I got a call Saturday and Sunday.
	My phone was ringing with an 866 number, and I got a call from...
	I thought it was going to be one of the four in jail, but it ended up being all four of them.
	And it's interesting.
	I've never had a prison call before, but they're limited to 20 minutes.
	You get a call.
	It's an automated voice saying you're getting a call from an inmate.
	And they said inmate.
	I wanted to make sure that I remembered it correctly.
	Inmate at Lethbridge Correctional Facility or Lethbridge Detention Facility.
	And then you accept the call.
	And I started talking at first.
	It was Chris Lysak, then Chris Carvert, then Tony, and then Sunday Jerry called.
	And calls are limited to 20 minutes.
	As you get to the 19th minute, an automated voice comes up and says, you have one minute left, and then it cuts you off, and they can call you back or they can't.
	And it was interesting.
	I mean, all four sent like they're in as good spirits as humanly possible under what I think are inhumane conditions.
	And it's not to say like...
	People go to jail, they get convicted, and they do a crime due to the time.
	But pre-trial detention without a conviction, having been denied bail on the basis of conspiracy to commit murder, and conspiracy, two or more people conspiring, plotting together to commit an unlawful act.
	And from what I understand, Jason, I know you guys have talked about it extensively.
	The evidence, or at least the disclosures of the conspiracy, consists of two statements from RCMP officers.
	I'm not sure what exists by way of text messages.
	From what I understand, it's nil.
	Emails, written correspondence, recordings, nil.
	It's two RCMP officers who say...
	What exactly do the RCMP officers say as far as you know and as far as you're allowed to disclose, Jason?
	Well, I'm going to bring Danielle up for that because Danielle has some good information on that one.
	Danielle, you ready for that?
	Sorry, could you just repeat what you said for the last little bit?
	What did the undercover informants say happened?
	Because it's not recorded, but they have some statements.
	Right.
	Well, and they were, yeah, the undercover, they were RCMP officers that were undercover.
	And you're wondering...
	What's the extent of what the undercover officers say was the conspiracy?
	Like, when did it happen, as far as you know?
	Was it at the protest?
	Was it murmurings between the four?
	There's nothing specific.
	I can't see anything specific that would aim towards conspiracy, and that's just from what I've seen.
	So there was an incident, I guess that would have been February 9th, the evening of February 9th, where Tony had been in contact with one of the undercovers, and there was some chatter and this and that, and they went to go and pick up a delivery.
	And in the media, it says that this delivery...
	The girls had suspected that that was a bag of guns that was coming in, in a hockey bag.
	So you can see this kind of peppered throughout the mainstream media.
	So that would have all been done by notes.
	This incident would have happened kind of around February 9th.
	So something I found interesting is that the media really painted it like this picture where there was going to be this exchange.
	Out of Coots, it sounded kind of like, I don't know, even I had it pictured in my head, like this dark railroad track, you know, and nobody's around.
	Because the undercovers before going in and seeing what things needed to be helped move in.
	So you've got to understand, in Coots, they were all blocked off.
	There was checkpoints, people weren't allowed in.
	So when you needed supplies coming in, people had to drive to the checkpoint locations and walk everything across.
	An inn and somehow get it back into where it needed to be and into the protest area.
	So it was a lot of work whenever something got delivered into the area.
	So I had that picture in my head that the girls had been writing notes about this incident where they were supposed to go and help deliver something in.
	And they were told by their Undercover operator cover, like it would be the person who was kind of in active communication with them while they were there.
	They were told to leave before actually going and doing the delivery of guns, right?
	And I thought, well, I guess that kind of makes sense if they were unarmed and it's dark and it's late at night and they're scared.
	Well, maybe that kind of made sense that they would have been told to kind of take off.
	They ended up taking off and not actually witnessing anything.
	And I did kind of learn later down the road that the point...
	Then I learned about this checkpoint that they had been to.
	So it wasn't just some dark...
	You know, train railroad track, like in a scenario that had been painted, it was an actual armed checkpoint.
	And if you see videos of coots, like they're heavily armed checkpoints.
	There's cops everywhere.
	They're all ready.
	You know, like they're not.
	It was quite apparent that there was something going on there.
	So when I learned that, I thought it was very odd that they would have been told, A, to turn around and leave.
	But none of those checkpoint officers were notified to go and check out this alleged hockey bag full of guns.
	So nothing was ever witnessed.
	Nothing was reported along the chain into the other teams, I don't believe.
	Because otherwise, why wouldn't somebody have said to these checkpoint officers, I'm mad about that.
	I'm like, well, if you really honestly suspected this hockey bag full of guns was about to come in, you just took off?
	And so, you know, like, that makes me feel unsafe.
	That would have made me feel unsafe if I would have been in the protest and you legitimately just did that, right?
	And those officers' lives could have been at stake.
	There was an easy answer to all of that.
	You could have had those heavily armed men and women, you know, that had protection on to go and check the bags.
	So from that incident, that was the evening of February 9th.
	She was briefed.
	They were briefed the next day.
	It was the evening of February 10th at a briefing around 6 p.m. that the officers were briefed and kind of mentioned, oh yeah, this kind of happened last night.
	So it was like the very next day and within an hour, within two hours, there were people getting called in to start...
	Talking about and setting up a 184.4, which is like an imminent harm wiretap, an unauthorized imminent harm wiretap.
	So this goes, we don't need a judge for this one.
	This means imminent.
	This means something's happening right now.
	And if you look it up, it kind of says, you know, bomb threats, child abductions, imminent things that are happening right now where we can't go look for a judge.
	This is crazy.
	Let's just do it.
	So, yeah, like a day later, they start talking, over 24 hours later, they start talking about imminent harm, and let's go in over this, you know, let's go in over this.
	So this will be on February 10th?
	This is the evening of February 10th, and the first wiretops were put on.
	Tony and Chris Carvert, early morning, we figure about 5, so 5.30 in the morning, kind of on February 11th.
	And then another one of the men...
	The following day and another one the day after that again.
	So there's a judge available in Alberta 24 /7 and they were able to get a judge's signature on February 13th, the day they applied for those search warrant at Joanne Pearson's house.
	They got one for that day when they applied for it that day, right?
	Yet this imminent harm that kind of went above and beyond them having to get a judge's approval.
	I mean, the incident was February 9th, so really by the time they were arrested, if you honestly thought, they had just brought a bag of guns in.
	And Roberta McHale was questioned on that in another interview.
	I'll try to find it maybe for another show, but she was being questioned on a lot of things that kind of pertain to like, well, if you thought there was such a threat, then why weren't you doing something sooner?
	If you were that legitimately concerned, then...
	Why are we talking days and days and days later before?
	And it was an incident-free arrest.
	It wasn't like they were doing anything that caused their arrest at the time of the arrest.
	So that's a whole other story, kind of the way things trickled down the line that night.
	So to wrap it up quickly, so February 9th, there was a gun-and-bag incident where the two informants didn't stick around, and it was at a checkpoint.
	And then on February 10th, they got an immediate warrant for tapping without a judge signature.
	And then from the 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, they were watching them.
	But what information do you have that the informants have provided?
	There's just clips.
	It's little sound bites, right?
	There's not a lot.
	There's really nothing.
	It's pieced together, just like how the news is.
	It's all just little sound bites of stuff, right?
	Like somebody, Tony might have been saying something about, you know, one of the undercovers kind of made it seem like she was right into guns and real, a right winger and a real redneck.
	You're laughing because they actually use those words.
	Yeah, we've seen them use those words.
	It was like, you know, I think that kind of...
	Got a conversation going in the direction where, you know, and I've said it too, where I'm like, well, we're in rural southern Alberta.
	Like, at any given moment in the country, especially, like, you're around probably 100 guns and thousands and thousands of rounds of ammunition.
	Like, there's no way you're not.
	Like, I'm not a gun person myself, but I've been around here for a really long time, and that's just the way it is, you know?
	I grew up with, you know, there's always a gun in the truck.
	Gopher gun or buckshot or whatever in a, you know, something under my dad's truck.
	It was just kind of the way.
	And so, yeah, I think that's kind of how that conversation had gone.
	And I think, you know, there was mention of that kind of like there's, you know, hundreds of guns in the area.
	And I think that's kind of where they went with that.
	Like as far as, oh, these guys have hundreds of guns.
	You know, there's hundreds of guns.
	Can you tell Viva about the thing behind the seat where they said it was body armor?
	Can you tell them about that part?
	Speed organizer.
	I wonder if I could pull it up.
	Well, you can describe it.
	The infamous picture with all of the guns and the vests, do we know if those were ballistic vests or were they just like fly fishing vests?
	We do know.
	So the bottom two, one of them looks like it came from army surplus.
	None of them had Kevlar and none of them had plates.
	The one on top of the table, that one I believe required a PAL and it was acquired with a PAL.
	So it was required legally.
	Again, for those who might not be too familiar with this, that infamous picture that was posted all over the CBC of all of the cachet of weapons, or I should say the cachet of firearms, and these vests, and the one that had the diagonal patch on the top.
	Again, I don't know everything.
	In fact, I know very little about certain things.
	But some of those vests look like they could have just as easily been fly-fishing vests with pockets and you put stuff in them.
	And the suggestion at the time was that this was a cachet of weapons, unlawful weapons, although it seems that only one was potentially unlawful.
	And then the other ones required licenses and the other ones were unrestricted.
	But that those vests were not...
	In Canada, for those who don't know also, you cannot own...
	Bulletproof vests.
	So I'm fairly certain that's true.
	I'm going to double check in a second.
	But those were not even ballistic vests as far as it went.
	One of them required a license and was procured with a license.
	Correct.
	And in Alberta, you do need a permit to own them if they are ballistic.
	But you can get the non-ballistic ones as well.
	But yeah, you can legally get them in Alberta, even if they have plates.
	You just need a permit for it and a reason, really.
	So it is available.
	But none of them had that permit.
	None of them needed it.
	And they're used in hunting a lot.
	They use these vests a lot in hunting as well.
	Yes, I'm looking here.
	It's just from a random website, but it says a person who buys a bulletproof vest must have a valid PAL, RPAL.
	That's for Nova Scotia.
	So I guess it might be provincially determined.
	It's similar here in Alberta.
	Okay.
	For those who don't remember this whole thing, I mean, it's...
	I say it's outlandish on its face.
	Everyone on your channel knows these individuals had no meaning.
	They had no criminal record, three of the four.
	One had a, I won't say meaningless, but had a...
	Well, I think Granny can touch that, I think, a bit more, Granny, actually.
	Or was it Danielle?
	So, Granny, let's start with you.
	Do you remember their charges from the past?
	No, that's Danielle's thing.
	She wrote all that down.
	I'm just the grandma that talks about the man.
	Okay, sorry about the grandma.
	No, I don't have that.
	Well, Danielle, three of them had no...
	But you can talk about it.
	It was some youth charges, one of them.
	From our understanding, it was some stuff from youth, but I don't have it handy, no.
	Sure, but we can talk that three of them had clean records, one of them had a juvenile record.
	Yes, I believe that.
	That's correct.
	And we can also refresh everybody's memory.
	It was as peaceful a protest, not just in fact, but in spirit, where even in Ottawa, you know, the people were shoveling the streets, salting the sidewalks, and deterring any overtly improper conduct to the extent that there was any.
	I wasn't at Coots documenting, but I guess everybody on the...
	What side is that?
	All five of you can confirm Coots was the exact same spirit.
	We saw some footage from it.
	Harrison, were you there?
	I remember seeing a lot of footage from Coots.
	Yeah, no, I wasn't on the ground at Coutts, but to your point, Viva, I saw photos of protesters hugging RCMP officers on the road at Coutts.
	That was one of the famous videos that made it through.
	And we also were able to get some footage from inside that bar, which sort of operated as the HQ for that protest.
	And there was, at least from what I could see, a willingness to engage with the RCMP.
	From the people on the ground there, understanding, of course, that they have to do their job and the people there are there to protest peacefully.
	I think just for my audience, Jason and everyone on this call, what if we just bring everyone up to speed about what we can expect to see today, Tuesday, and what these pretrial hearings are going to bring if they bring anything for people who are really trying to pay attention to what's happening on the ground, not to try and jump.
	Jump the gun here, but what can we expect this week, at least from your guys' end?
	Yeah, it's going to be an interesting day.
	So today at 2 p.m., there's going to be the results of an application for Chris Carver.
	And we'll let Danielle speak exactly what that application was for.
	And then tomorrow is when we get the results of the CC1 application.
	We believe we get the result of the CC1 application, because that's where we left off on June 29th, was that application was brought forward.
	And we should get a decision or at least find out what's going on with that application.
	And just to let your viewers know there, Viva, we don't know what's inside that sealed envelope.
	So we don't know specifically what the application is for, but we do know it led to the recusal.
	And we do know that there's going to be some sort of decision on it.
	So, Danielle, if you want to go ahead and speak on what Chris Carbert's, what we're doing here today, 2 p.m., and then we can get into a little bit more about tomorrow.
	Sure.
	Can you pull up my share screen, Jason?
	Sure can, yeah.
	There we go.
	The application was for, it's called voluntariness of statement.
	So to make sure that, let me just get back over here.
	There we go.
	Can you, is it moving when I do this?
	Yes.
	Okay, cool.
	So this is voluntariness of statement.
	And so we did do, we started three of those at the last pretrial motions.
	One for Chris Carbert, one for Chris Lysak, and one for Tony.
	And this is to make sure that the officers who were doing their, they call them interviews, after they were arrested, were following these rules, right?
	So there has to be certain things that are met before their statement is considered valid.
	And it's certain things here like threats or promises.
	They can't be under oppression.
	They have to have operating mind.
	And there has to be no evidence of police trickery.
	So, with this particular application, Chris's lawyer had contested the operating mind and the oppression clauses of this rule, the Confessions Rule, they call it.
	I'm going to get back into my screen because this is weird.
	No problem.
	So this is related to the confession and interview and whether or not it's allowed or whether or not he had his rights violated during that.
	Yeah.
	From what I can kind of read, it kind of looks like your rights are violated if you are interviewed under any one of those circumstances.
	Now, without dropping into too much detail about why that application was done, it was due to medical reasons.
	He was being denied some medical attention.
	Yeah, on that, I'll say that the contesting was done on the operating mind and the oppression.
	The operating mind, the judge had kind of mentioned, you know, that's a pretty high standard for that.
	Like, you pretty much have to not know where you are.
	Maybe blackout drunk or having a...
	A mental health breakdown to the point where you don't understand what's happening.
	The oppression, I think, is what is going to be is being contested.
	So we're up to the point right now where witnesses have spoken, the cross-examinations have been done, and the closing arguments are completed.
	So I believe that tomorrow, and I mean, anything can happen, we've kind of learned that you can't predict what you're walking into.
	And when you're walking out of there, you just stop.
	You give up.
	Granny's not.
	We stopped trying to explain too much.
	I'm guessing that there's maybe just the decision left with Chris's application because that's seemingly all they have left with that one.
	So 2 o 'clock it might be quick and maybe, who knows, they might continue with something else.
	But I don't know.
	I can't predict anything other than that.
	So that's a continuation of something that was filed before June 29th incident happened as well.
	So it looks like they're just finishing up previously.
	June 29th.
	Well, the incident wasn't June 29th.
	The incident, as far as the disclosure getting, because that application happened first.
	They did the publication ban application and then the disclosure application.
	So that disclosure application was right, like, day two.
	So that kind of brewed through the whole thing to by the end is kind of when we found out that the CC1 was being developed.
	Okay, so today is not about the CC1.
	Tomorrow is?
	Tomorrow is not about the CC1.
	Tomorrow is probably the judge's ruling on the oppression clause of that voluntariness application.
	That's today.
	Oh, that's today.
	Oh my gosh!
	Yeah, that's today.
	So the oppression decision is today.
	Yes, sorry.
	And then tomorrow, the Tuesday, is when they're doing the CC1.
	Yes.
	Yes, correct.
	Okay, so now we're on track.
	So I've got two questions just about the process.
	I know that you've mentioned on a few shows, Jason, that the decision to go to trial potentially, obviously we don't know the trial date, but the decision to go to trial potentially as late as June of next year has been agreed upon on both sides.
	Could you explain a bit about why...
	The defense would want to spend that amount of time as well, keeping the trial date that late.
	Yeah, no, the defense is not asking for any delays at this point.
	That would be the court creating that delay, not even the prosecutor.
	So the court is the one that has to provide the scheduling.
	And that's when they have some availability.
	So it's not the defense slowing anything down or even the Crown at this point.
	It's the court.
	And it's too bad that they can't schedule faster.
	I can't comment on why.
	But the defense is not asking for more time.
	They're ready to go.
	Danielle, is that correct?
	Yeah.
	Well, the problem is, too, there's a lot of applications made.
	So at the beginning of this pretrial motions, like at the beginning of those three weeks, even, there was 15 applications submitted, and now there's something like over 50. So I think the more that the lead lawyer has kind of been digging into stuff, The more that's coming up.
	And unfortunately, in this system, there isn't some magic king that comes in and says, oh, Crown, you did this, and that's not right, and that's a charter breach, so away you go.
	You have to make applications and pay your lawyer and go through the process to make those things even come to light.
	So I think for me, it's really made me realize like how many things never come to light because the person, the accused just simply has a poor lawyer or can't afford to keep paying for applications, you know, that kind of way they do.
	They do try to dry out.
	They try to hope that after 500 plus days, nobody's got any money.
	Nobody's got any energy.
	Everybody's burnt out.
	Your family's burnt out.
	You're hoping for, I don't think they, they didn't think we were going to, They're trying to get a deal, are they?
	Deal?
	No deals.
	I'm trying to refresh my memory in criminal law, what the unreasonable delay is after which you can...
	30 months.
	Some criteria say 18 months, but people have to appreciate what makes these delays unconscious.
	First of all, for a relatively...
	I won't say this is relatively simple charges.
	It seems to be relatively simple.
	There's four people and the charges is conspiracy.
	It seems all the evidence they had would be evidence that they had up until detention.
	So it's not like the last...
	What are we now?
	19 months.
	It's not like they've gathered much new evidence after detention for conspiracy.
	Yes, they have.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Flesh that out.
	What they've done is they've kept an open investigation on the file.
	On people that, I mean, have never even been questioned or anything like that.
	So because they left an open investigation on the file, they are able to continue to collect evidence.
	They'll listen in on the men's phone calls, on the jail phones.
	They've been talking to people around in the communities.
	So you've got to understand, like even from September, there was four ITOs in September that were submitted.
	We're up to ten now, and I'm talking September 2022.
	There was four, and now there's ten.
	So they keep dumping.
	And it's repetitious.
	Like the judge pointed it out in court.
	He kind of did the publication ban on five and six.
	And he added a bunch of paragraphs.
	And after that, he said seven and eight are a repeat of five and six.
	Nine and ten are a repeat of the entire thing.
	So there was no extra.
	So they were dumping disclosure on these men when it was time to go.
	Somebody would lose a lawyer.
	It was time to go to bail hearing.
	Or the media, it was just the right time.
	Like right up before the...
	POE, you know, the inquiry, it was like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, bunch of stuff comes out around then, right?
	And so it was, there was piles and piles and piles of it.
	Old stuff, stuff they'd found from before, or it wasn't ready, or we had to get a, you know, all these different things.
	Kind of the point, what I was trying to illustrate just as the absurdity of this is like the older stuff or stuff that they already had.
	And when they say, you know, like you have to have a trial within a certain reasonable delay, it's A, finances, B, justice for the individuals, but also C, the reliability of the evidence nearing on two years out.
	Witnesses, memories, witnesses might, you know, not be available.
	It's just the passage of time.
	And in the interim, just so people understand how absolutely absurd this is, they had the public order emergency.
	The POEC is the public order.
	Emergency Commission.
	The government had its entire trial on the invocation of the Emergencies Act, which was predicated on the conspiracy to commit murder in Coots.
	They had that...
	How long was it?
	It was two months, that POEC, give or take?
	Yeah, it was six weeks.
	Six weeks.
	They had that entire trial.
	They drafted the findings.
	Commissioner Rouleau drafted his...
	I don't know how many hundreds of pages, or thousands it was, four volumes.
	They did that.
	Can't have a trial for four defendants who have been locked up in pretrial detention.
	That's what really the world has to take away from this.
	In D.C., you've got your January 6th gulags where you have people who had been detained for two years.
	Some of them might have been violence-related charges.
	Others were not.
	Pretrial detention, denied bail.
	I think I can anticipate why these four men were denied bail by this system.
	But who would be the best answer as to why the rationale of them being denied bail was?
	Flight risk or danger risk?
	Danger risk.
	It was danger risk.
	And it was the same stuff that was used for the POEC.
	So it was in camera.
	So we don't really have that full information.
	But it would be the same thing that Rouleau based his opinion on, on how dangerous the coup situation would have been.
	So it was not flight risk.
	It was based on...
	Community danger.
	And we don't see that danger.
	They don't have any previous record.
	They're not dangerous men.
	They didn't actually cause any harm to anybody.
	So we don't understand what that dangerous risk is, but that is what's under the in-camera stuff.
	And I'm just going to touch on the Jordan ruling.
	So Jordan law, or not law, but the Jordan ruling is what causes the 30-month delay.
	And we just had a pedophile not too long ago get off on this particular one.
	And this is 30 months from the date charged, minus any delays by the defense.
	So whatever it takes, minus the delay of the...
	fence.
	If it's 30 months, you're out.
	Have they made a renewed application for bail?
	I mean, I guess it's almost pointless at this point, but have they done that?
	A change in the conditions, life circumstances?
	I don't know.
	So Danielle, I think she'd be kind of Lester.
	I don't know, but right now we're going through different applications this week.
	So Danielle, are there any pending bail applications?
	No, two of the men went for bail reviews recently.
	So, you know, just before, I guess it would have been a few months ago now.
	And they, that was an unfortunate story.
	They ended up going through the entire process, paying their lawyers to kind of put through these applications, spent, you know, a good month kind of getting everything together and got in front of the judge.
	And the judge says, well, this is a bail review.
	You have to go back to your original judge that, Denied the bail for this bail review so they both lost a lot of money and a lot of time and that should have been done when the application was submitted to the courts that like somebody should have said to them like oh wait like typically you've got to go back you know you're going to be requested to go back to the original to the original judge so those two you know they're they weren't denied bail again technically they were just Requested to go back to the original
	judge that made the order that did their bail hearings in the first place for the review.
	That's interesting.
	And depending on what happens here this week, you know, who knows, stuff might get thrown out of, you know, the disclosure and make it a little bit harder for things to be presented in a bail review.
	You know, this is maybe new evidence in that sense, right?
	Okay.
	So, yeah, so not denied is just delayed.
	Correct.
	Redirected.
	Redirected.
	Justice delayed is justice denied.
	It's a core tenant of law.
	Yeah.
	And I can talk about it.
	I won't get into the details of what we talked about on the phone.
	And I presume, you know, I forgot to mention, when you get the call from the Lethbridge Correctional or whatever detention facility, it says, no three-way calls.
	It reminds you of that twice.
	It comes up and says, no three-way calls, and then louder, no three-way calls, and it says that this call could be monitored, and I presume...
	I think it says will be monitored, not could be.
	No, I think it said could be, because if it said would be, I would have recorded it myself on my end.
	Okay.
	And I didn't.
	Oh, gosh.
	Now the government knows I didn't record it.
	So I'm sitting there talking to the guys, and my concern is, I think they presume and also know that it's going to be surveilled in whatever they say can and will be used against them.
	Justin Trudeau's court of law.
	I spoke with Chris Carbert first, Chris Lysak, Tony, then Jerry.
	And they sounded up in good spirits.
	I don't know how...
	It's an amazing thing.
	Your world becomes that microcosm in which you live.
	And I asked what they do on a daily basis.
	And I forget who said what because the calls overlapped a little bit.
	But keeping busy, working within the facility, making...
	Artsy sort of like crafts and sending them out and using them to raise money, reading.
	And I think all four pretty much said faith.
	They had either found faith, renewed faith, and that was keeping them sane while in there.
	So, I mean, it's interesting that a couple of them also said that they are thankful for what everybody else on the outside is doing.
	To have gratitude and to have faith under those horrible circumstances is something else.
	And they describe it, you know, the facility in Lethbridge.
	I asked my nosy questions because I'm just curious.
	I've never seen this before.
	But like demographically, they said 40 to 50 percent of Lethbridge itself is...
	Native American and drug addicts, and it's just like a turnstile system.
	People come in on charges, they let them out, they get out, they go to shelters where they procure more drugs, and then they just end up right back in there.
	They said they saw some of the same people six, seven times.
	And you realize, when you have such a...
	This disparate or disproportionate demographic within these institutions, something is fundamentally broken within society.
	These four gentlemen are revealing what's fundamentally politicized and broken about the system now.
	The whole system is fundamentally broken to begin with.
	And I forget now, again, who it was, but they said the injustice of what goes on in this system is something that they were never fully aware of.
	They see it now from a totally different angle, and it seems to be the common recurrence of non-criminal People who are dragged into the system, who witness the cruelty of the system, and then come out realizing it's fundamentally broken inside and out.
	But it was interesting to hear what life was like at these facilities and how it's just a conveyor belt that does nothing to actually help anybody.
	It's just an endless vicious cycle.
	Well, let me ask you, Eva, how did you feel after the first call, especially with Chris Lysak?
	Did he talk about his daughters?
	Did he go down that road with you?
	I'm reluctant.
	Jason, I asked you afterwards.
	I don't want to reveal too much about what we discussed.
	No, just your feelings.
	I can't imagine anything harder than being separated from family.
	For the two who have children.
	I know two of the four have children.
	I think three of the four have children.
	Life is hard without being locked up unjustly for nearly two years.
	Family is complicated.
	Life is complicated.
	You get sucked into jail.
	And the upending that that takes on a normal set of circumstances, they miss their kids.
	They're missing two years of development.
	And two years of a young kid's life is a disproportionate amount of that life.
	And there's an interesting analogy.
	Two years of a young developing kid's life is a significant portion of that young developing life stolen, can never be returned.
	As you get older, two years of a later stage of your life is two years of what's left of your life.
	That's a big proportion of what's left of your life.
	So they're stealing irreplaceable, excessive proportions of life, time, on both ends of these guys' lives.
	And it's disgusting.
	It's time stolen that they don't get with their kids.
	They'll never get back with their kids.
	Their kids are growing up now.
	They were explaining it's difficult on the kids.
	You go to school and teachers treat your kids...
	This actually also is a recurring theme in the January 6th stuff.
	Teachers treat the kids like they're the children of terrorists.
	And the way charges can be weaponized in certain circumstances, the way they can be weaponized to demonize people, to badmouth them on social media when they're locked up and they don't even have access to social media, it's hell on earth.
	Solitary confinement, hell on earth.
	Locked up in prison, hell on earth.
	One of them was describing the food.
	And I forget.
	Who was it that was sent to Medicine Hat and then brought back?
	I'm not sure if that's...
	Granny, who goes to Medicine Hat?
	Which one goes to Medicine Hat?
	Tony.
	Tony came to Medicine Hat.
	Not that it really matters.
	One of them was shipped off to Medicine Hats and then brought back and describing the different facilities.
	I forget which one had better food.
	They're describing the food and saying, well, at one facility, the food was good.
	And I said, well, good compared to what?
	And they said, well, A, we had proportions or portions that satisfied a stomach, and B, it tasted like something.
	The soup tasted like soup, but the other place, it tasted like slop.
	Yeah, it sounds like Jerry.
	I'm trying to be very, very vague, not to get into the details that we discussed, but like, yeah, prison food.
	These are things that normal human should never have to think about.
	And people who have been convicted of crimes, maybe it's a bleeding heart Canadian, but even people who are convicted of crimes need to be treated with a minimal degree of human decency.
	We're not even dealing with people who were, in fact, convicted in a fair court of law.
	Just charges, just locked up.
	Correct.
	Two years ago.
	Yeah, this stage is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.
	So we don't like the fact that they're being punished through the process at this stage.
	And yeah, they'll get time served or credit later, but that's not really the point.
	The point is they're being punished during the process here.
	Granny, can you kind of talk on who's in solitary for how long and where?
	Because that was kind of some of the information I got incorrect on how long and who's in solitary.
	Can you touch on that?
	Yes.
	So when...
	Jerry and Tony go back to Lethbridge.
	And you've got to remember, Tony was in Medicine Hat, Jerry's in Calgary, and then they have to be shipped to Lethbridge.
	There's no place to put them.
	It's a smaller remand.
	So immediately, Jerry and Tony went into 22-hour lockdown with two hours out.
	There's been a lot of...
	Well, Jerry's actually been writing letters to...
	His wife is actually here with me.
	Jacqueline, who was Jerry writing letters to?
	Do you want to bring Jacqueline on?
	Jacqueline, can you just come here?
	This is Jerry's wife.
	Yeah, she...
	There we go.
	Scooch in here and we'll cuddle up.
	There we go.
	Good morning, Jacqueline.
	Good morning.
	Oh, just a second.
	If you turn your phone, Granny, it will help.
	Testing, testing.
	Can you hear me?
	Can you have Granny turn her phone horizontal?
	Can you hear?
	Can you turn it horizontal this way so that they can see us both?
	I don't know if it'll work that way.
	Try it.
	It will.
	It'll auto-roach it.
	Oh, we're upside down.
	Fantastic.
	You're good, you're good.
	No.
	It'll catch up.
	Go ahead and start talking.
	No, it's not.
	That's all right.
	Honestly.
	Cease this and kicking in again.
	Now we're lost.
	All right, ladies.
	We can hear you.
	You can just start.
	Yeah, so Jerry was writing letters.
	Oh, are we good?
	Yeah, we still hear you.
	There we go.
	There we go.
	Sideways uses too much Canadian bandwidth.
	This is using too much of my bandwidth right now this morning.
	Good morning, Jack.
	Good morning.
	So Jerry Wright was writing letters to pretty much everybody that he could under the sun, you know, that was writing to him.
	But he wrote letters to, like, to myself, his daughter, to people that were helping us to fundraise.
	But then at one point, they stopped letting the letters go through.
	They said that there wasn't enough postage for them, but you could only get, like, a prepaid postage envelope of whatever it was, like $1.37.
	Or whatever the postage amount was on there.
	So they started getting held up.
	It was funny.
	I actually just received three letters that were sent in April just two weeks ago, actually, in the mail all of a sudden out of nowhere.
	So it's funny that it clogs it up and then eventually they let them through for whatever reason.
	So he is getting his letters out.
	No, that's good.
	But he has 22 hours and sometimes, is it 20 hours?
	Was it?
	Was it Jerry that got a little bit of extra time this week?
	Yeah, so it's hit and miss.
	He said that it depends on the manager that's looking after his unit, but he's had a couple of days since he's been down there where he hasn't had to be in 22-hour lockup.
	They've let him out into, it's like a hallway, I guess, is how he explains it, to be able to watch TV.
	He can clean, which he always volunteers to clean, so that he can get out and spend time out of his cell, so he will clean the other.
	Solitary cells and it can be pretty nasty though.
	I'm really proud of him that he volunteers to do these because the solitary cells are usually feces and vomit that tends to be the prevalence in those cells.
	So he volunteers, he goes and cleans and he can get out and possibly see some sunshine and talk to people so that he's not sitting there with his own thoughts.
	As crazy as it is, he's getting conditioned to it.
	You know, he knows what to expect now.
	This will be his third time being shipped to Lethbridge, where he has to stay in solitary.
	And we anticipate this for every court date, so he's getting used to it.
	But I mean, the mental fortitude that he's building going through this is, you know, you're not going to get it anywhere else, I guess.
	So, you know, we're proud of him because...
	You know, he handles it very well.
	And like I said, it's building strength in him.
	So he's way less shaken up about it this time, which is very helpful for everyone, for him and all of us.
	Yeah, that's not something we're supposed to get used to, eh, Viva?
	No, I always think back to the episode of Joe Rogan.
	I forget who he was.
	I think he was talking with Phil Damaris, the walrus whisperer.
	He says, you know, like, there is no greater torture for a human than being...
	Alone.
	I mean, you can pull out toenails, you can break arms.
	Denial of human interaction is the most cruel torture that you can inflict on a human being.
	And I think the context was also on a porpoise or a whale, you know, the orca that's in solitary.
	And, you know, I ask, they're in solitary.
	When they were totally alone, I forget the extent of time that they were, but, you know, how grateful they were just to be able to walk around and interact with people.
	And then it was explaining how they got...
	Not to social media, to a very limited, select library of media, which was MSM.
	It was a funny discussion.
	He's like, I read MSM because I wanted to recommend a Rogan podcast with this Duncan Trussell, I think his name is.
	An amazingly insightful spiritual podcast, but they can't get Joe Rogan.
	That would encourage that bad thought.
	He says, I'm reading MSM, but I now know how to read MSM.
	Read these stories.
	You see the spin.
	You see the lies.
	You see where it's all coming from.
	But at least, you know, there's some human interaction at this point and access to books and, you know, doing anything to keep busy for the 24 hours a day where they're in prison.
	Yeah, one of the interesting things was, you're right, so they have an iPad that only has mainstream media on it, but they consider Newsweek mainstream media, so they were quite surprised and pleased to see their article come up on mainstream media from Gord McGill because...
	There it was.
	It was in front of them.
	It was like the real world all of a sudden starting to open up for them.
	And now some of their truth is making it there.
	So that was something that they were very excited about.
	Jacqueline, can you maybe touch on that?
	Or it was Granny that was telling me the story about the men finding it on Newsweek and then their excitement around that?
	Yeah, that was Granny.
	So I'm going to give you right back to her.
	Okay.
	Because that was a touching story to hear them excited to find it on Mainstream Media.
	And somebody has some music in the background.
	Yeah, it was Jacqueline's alarm.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Okay, what was I talking about here?
	Sorry, too many distractions going on around here.
	So the gentleman saw, yeah, they saw the Newsweek article on the iPad.
	Yeah, I thought I was going to have to copy and paste as I've done, like when I did Donald's article there, I had to copy, paste, copy, paste into different screens for them.
	But Newsweek was actually on their iPads.
	So that is as close to mainstream media.
	And you can only imagine how it felt for them to pick up that iPad and actually see an article about them for the first time in a year and a half.
	Like, I can't even imagine what that felt like, but it gave them hope, gave them faith that people are actually waking up and standing up for them.
	Because it's been a long haul for these guys, and keeping their mental health strong, that's where my heart goes, is the mental health, and that's where the letters came from.
	So anything that can help them get through day by day, knowing that people are out there standing up for them, when nobody was there at the start except for a few friends and their family, everybody turned and ran.
	Everybody left them and abandoned them and threw them away like garbage.
	That's how these men felt.
	So, Viva and True North, thank you for stepping up.
	You have no idea what you're doing for these men right now.
	Harrison, I think we've talked about it periodically along the way, but it's one of those things where there's no news, so it doesn't resurface, and then it's one incident, and I say one injustice after another.
	People have to remember this.
	Like, in the early stages of the protest, conspiracy to commit murder charges, I mean, it was a serious allegation.
	So, okay, get arrested.
	And then the rest of the protest goes on.
	And then you get arrests for mischief and lengthy detention, pretrial detention for mischief, nonviolent mischief charges.
	People focus on that.
	Then you have, you know, the pastors getting arrested, Pavlovsky.
	And it's just one injustice after another.
	And then you, it's not that you forget or don't care.
	It's almost like it's impossible to keep up.
	And then lo and behold, two years later, it resurfaced again during the POEC.
	And then you realize that these people are still sitting there rotting away.
	And it's no skin off Trudeau's back.
	He gets to use these as political pawns to justify everything.
	And man, did they testify at the POEC?
	I'm trying to refresh my memory.
	No, they did not testify at the POEC, but they brought the evidence forward in camera.
	So yeah, they didn't testify directly in the POEC.
	No, they used them for the POEC and then come out in that report where everybody in the public consciousness still says, oh, well, you know, it's a serious charge.
	They deserve to be locked up, forgetting all of the precedent about pre-trial release.
	We talked about it Friday.
	I've talked about it at length.
	You know, the dude who runs over four people in Winnipeg let out on bail.
	It was attempted murder on a police officer in Ontario, let out on bail.
	Pedophile out in Nova Scotia, charges dropped because it took too long to bring him to trial.
	And I'm trying to find the article to see how many months it was.
	But it's time to make a stink because it seems that maybe perhaps the public outcry about Tamara Lich had some impact, but I don't really think it did.
	Pat King sufficiently demonized that the general population didn't really care about him as an individual because they might have Thought they knew what they knew about him, so he got what he deserved type thing.
	And then in the meantime, by the way, you have your January 6th people in the States, and you have one thing after another.
	It's impossible to keep up with it.
	But screaming into the abyss sometimes does something, just as long as you don't look into the abyss for too long.
	Well, what I find interesting, Jason, is that I've just done some Googling to refresh my memory, and really, this has been the only thing that has really stuck.
	With the federal government since the invocation of the Emergencies Act, if you recall, it was not just through the POEC, but it was through the House of Commons testimonies where the claim that there were loaded weapons found at the Ottawa protest.
	was found out to be not true, and the government relied on that.
	Mendocino also relied on other things.
	I'm pretty sure he also at one point relied on this claim that members of parliament were being threatened with, even to go so far as threatened with rape.
	And then when members of parliament asked him to clarify, he said he didn't have any, when journalists even asked him to clarify, he said he didn't have anything there.
	And at the POEC, the CSIS confirmed that it didn't reach the threshold of a national Security concerned.
	I'm not sure if I have that wording right.
	But everything else has fallen.
	All other justification has fallen.
	But that didn't stop Rouleau from clearing the government on invocating the Emergencies Act.
	And it's astonishing that this has really been the only thing that the government has been able to stick on.
	Now, I just want to confirm one thing with you.
	Now, you said that it was Jerry and Tony who are in solitary confinement.
	All four of them are in solitary confinement or it's Jerry and Tony?
	And if it is, is it because he's been moved to a different jail?
	I'm just trying to figure out the condition that these men are in and why they're in solitary confinement and who is in solitary confinement.
	Well, Granny just lost her connection.
	She has that.
	But I'll ask Danielle if she knows about Chris and Chris in Lethbridge.
	So Chris and Chris in Lethbridge, they normally are in Lethbridge, so they've just stayed in their normal units and their normal cells.
	Tony, who's coming from Medicine Hat, Jerry's coming from Calgary.
	So Tony's actually been moved to Calgary and been in Calgary for quite some time, since the 29th.
	So now, because they've moved back and there's an order in by the judge saying that none of them can talk during...
	During these motions or anything like that, that that kind of means, well, if they're all going to be here, then these guys are already on the two units that we have.
	So then now the only other options is solitary.
	So Tony and Jerry, when they come to Lethbridge, goes into solitary?
	Yes.
	And they were in solitary for, so they got moved into Lethbridge a week before those three weeks of pretrials.
	So June 12th, I guess that would have started.
	Is that right?
	June 12th.
	So they were in the week before that.
	So they were in solitary and then for probably four or five days after.
	So like a month.
	So Chris and Chris are not in solitary and have never been in solitary confinement?
	No.
	None of them have been otherwise, other than this situation.
	As far as I remember, I spoke to the four on the weekend, none were in solitary.
	The issue is that they can't interact with one another, so when they go for hearings, it's effectively solitary.
	They're put in the exact same location as somebody who had done something wrong in jail and got put in solitary confinement as a punishment.
	It's exactly the same thing.
	It's for a different reason, but it's the exact same conditions.
	And I shared in our private chat here the article from the CBC where the accused pedophile had his charges stayed because it took more than 18 months to come to full trial, and it hadn't.
	And yet in this case, charges...
	I don't know how you can compare conspiracy to commit murder to charges of pedophilia, but they're beyond the 18 months now.
	And the recusal, I'm actually not so encouraged about the recusal because that seems like it's going to add potentially or be used as an excuse to add more delays to the prosecution.
	Although, you know, maybe that'll play into the Section 11B charter violation or charter motion.
	And what else did they mention that might be of interest to people?
	They get...
	Oh, God, what was it?
	In the early days, maybe Danielle can...
	Elaborate on this, but they said the early days were the worst when they got in there?
	Danielle, in terms of isolation, lack of exercise, lack of interaction?
	The early days of solitary?
	No, no, the early days of detention.
	That's when it was the worst.
	Well, I really only knew Tony kind of in the beginning, and then Chris Carver kind of got involved with them shortly after, but I mean, they weren't okay.
	Nobody had any idea why they were in there for a very long time.
	It was adjournment after adjournment.
	I'm not so sure the conditions are any different than they are now, but Medicine Hat apparently is the nicer.
	Tony says the guards are nicer, he's got a window, the food's better.
	Lethbridge is kind of seemingly in the middle, and then Calgary's the absolute worst.
	But there's a lot of violence in Calgary as well.
	They're on gang wards, so there's a lot of lockdowns.
	And you've got to think lockdown's just like basically, it's basically solitary as well.
	So as soon as somebody has a fight and that goes down, these guys are locked down.
	You could be locked down for the rest of the day just because of somebody else's fight, right?
	Calgary's by far the worst as far as food, violence, cleanliness, all of it.
	So Jerry, I mean, Jerry's been in there the whole time.
	So Jerry's, I think, probably even being moved back to Lethbridge, he's now getting used to the shuffle.
	But oddly enough, like Jacqueline said, he gets used to it.
	And Jerry was so used to Calgary that even getting moved to Lethbridge, as lighter as it was, he was still shaken, right?
	It's like moving, like you move your house, right?
	And you don't have your stuff, and you don't know anybody around you all of a sudden.
	So it shook Tony up really bad to get moved from Medicine Hat, which was the nicest facility.
	I shouldn't say nicest facility, but the easier facility.
	The lesser discussion.
	Tony's never been around violence, so that's probably his biggest struggle right now, is when he was in Calgary, was actually being...
	We're physically close to some pretty gang-related violence.
	We're rural.
	We both lived in the same small town our whole lives, so it's just not...
	For him, that's been the hardest part, I think.
	Jerry, I don't know.
	It's just going to change them a lot in that sense.
	Hey, Donald.
	I was just going to say, when I was on the phone with, I think it was Chris Lysak, one of them, we get on the call, and he's like, I've got to go.
	We're going into lockdown, and I'll call you back when I can.
	Yeah, that's sad when that happens to you.
	It happens to me as well.
	He's like, I'll call you back if I can, as soon as I can.
	It's like, okay, go ahead.
	Donald, you, of all the people in here, you know what solitary is like, and you know what's on the walls, and you know what's all that.
	So let me ask you to just kind of touch on that quickly, and then also tell us how you came into this matter with your detective eyes, your police eyes, and where you started on this matter, and now where you are on this matter.
	Sure.
	Look, I went into solitary confinement.
	It was the only place that could keep me alive in the Central East Detention Center.
	And I thought, hey, I'm a 60-year-old guy.
	I'm stable.
	I've got family waiting outside.
	I'm a tough ex-cop.
	Piece of cake, let me tell you.
	They closed that door on me, and there was nothing but feces and blood and the tortured writing of years.
	Of people.
	And we have replaced our psychiatric hospital system with the prison.
	And half of the inmates, maybe more, in solitary confinement are absolutely crazy.
	I saw people eat their own feces daily.
	I saw people and heard them run against their cell door a thousand times until they fell down trying to kill themselves.
	They have signs over the cell doors so that the officers know what they're dealing with.
	Biter, throws feces, suicide risk over every cell door, something like that.
	And it's unbelievable.
	It is torture.
	The lights were on 24-7, just like the Nathreys used to do, just like was done in Guantanamo Bay.
	It's torture.
	And I was only in there for 63 days.
	That's nothing.
	When you come out, you're changed.
	And I don't mean you're crazy or you have PTSD or something like that.
	Even if you're stable, you come out, you have a different appreciation of everything.
	And so that's what that did to me.
	Okay, I was vindicated afterwards.
	The Commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police.
	I swore in an affidavit that one of his men took a bribe from three crooked lawyers to create false evidence against me.
	And a corrupt judge was involved in it, too.
	And that's all sworn to.
	I was all vindicated.
	Great.
	I still did my time.
	So that's my time in solitary.
	How I came here?
	Look, when these guys were arrested, these four men...
	They were terrorists.
	I saw the photo that everybody saw on February 14th, just mere hours after they were arrested and the search warrants were done.
	I'm looking at it right now.
	There's weapons laid out on the table.
	And I saw that and I thought, lock them up and throw away the key.
	Look, I've arrested.
	I have said you're under arrest for murder twice in my career.
	And I just said, lock these guys up.
	But when Jason came to me 500 and some odd days later and said, they're still in jail and there's been no trial, I said, what?
	How could that possibly be?
	Because right now in Toronto, we have an accused cop killer out on bail.
	Everybody makes bail.
	So then I started taking a look at the case.
	First thing I saw was that photo.
	That was shown to Parliament so everybody would approve the Emergencies Act.
	It was all staged.
	They staged the photo because it was more important than professional evidence handling, right in the middle of an ongoing investigation.
	You can read that in my article.
	They did not do fingerprints or DNA examinations on Anything on this table.
	And my reasons are professional and I can tell that that would happen.
	So I took another look at it and, you know, here I am.
	And as a result of examining all the information and the evidence available to us about the COOTS IV, I have grave doubts about the quality of the investigation and its integrity.
	And I believe that the investigation and the charges and the denial of bail to the COOTS IV That's all motivated or impacted by a political agenda.
	And when you inject politics into policing, you just destroy justice.
	And that's where we are right here, right now, with these political prisoners.
	We haven't heard the evidence.
	I don't know if...
	You know, each one of them is innocent of each of the charges.
	There's a number of charges, some small.
	I don't know that.
	But I know that they are political prisoners.
	That's my take.
	That's my professional opinion.
	And that's my personal opinion.
	And here we are, 500 and how many days later, where we have a cop killer out on bail with an ankle bracelet, and these men are still locked up.
	They're locked up.
	As far as I'm concerned, they're locked up for three reasons.
	One is to act as public evidence that the Emergency Act was justified because these people are so dangerous.
	I'm going to bring up the photo of the guns for you, Don.
	Do you want to tell everybody why you think this is staged?
	Sure, sure.
	Okay, well, first of all, if you're going to...
	Do a professional investigation.
	The first thing you do is you bag everything separately where it's found.
	And you keep it apart so that the evidence does not contaminate each other.
	Now, don't forget, we were told constantly that there were other people involved in this so-called conspiracy.
	And they didn't know the names of them.
	And they were searching to find that out.
	That was in the announcement.
	When they announced their arrest in the morning of February 14th, just before the Emergencies Act was invoked.
	And so they were looking for other people.
	Well, if you're looking for other people, you take care because any one of these items on the table...
	Could have come from another person.
	So you bag it separately and you fingerprint it and you do DNA.
	You don't put it on the table besides something else where a hair or a flake of skin would get onto something else.
	You don't position firearms, long arms, as these are.
	Barrel up.
	Yeah, fragilely against the table where one bump of the table and they fall over.
	We have the RCMP.
	This is done in a garage, not an evidence facility.
	This is done for impact, for political impact.
	It is a staged photo.
	We have the RCMP in the back, so you know exactly who's responsible for this magnificent result, these terrorists.
	And that's what it is.
	Whoever's controlling this picture, can you zoom in on the machete on the bottom?
	Yes.
	The orange handle.
	It's not zooming well.
	There's a gardening machete in there.
	Or a camping machete.
	When I first saw this, I have to remember the timeline.
	This is as much of a staged photo, like Donald is saying, as when the FBI came in and seized the classified documents from Trump.
	And in the middle of an investigation, Flays it out on the floor.
	Sends it or leaks it to the media.
	In this case, they just publish it so the media knows exactly what to do with it.
	And it's to taint public opinion.
	Because people are going to look at this and see a scary but absolutely lawful and unrestricted firearms.
	You go and you take the two-day course.
	You can own these things.
	You don't know who they belong to.
	You hear there's four men and you see a cache of weapons.
	That's too much for four men to have.
	They must have been up to no good.
	And like the honorable thing.
	Hypothetically, anybody else is involved in this and says, oh my goodness, I see something there that I can recognize.
	I'd better do something to go on the run.
	It's all preposterous, but it was all part of a PR campaign that was being aided and abetted with the aid of the government subsidized media so they could make the whole public think...
	These men were violent criminals.
	You know, think that people were defacing monuments in Ottawa, that people were, you know, urinating and defecating on the cenotaph in Ottawa.
	And they successfully convinced a general population to tolerate indefinite pretrial confinement.
	And not just of, I mean, a conspiracy to commit murder is one thing.
	They got them to accept it with Tamara Lich for nonviolent mischief charges, Pat King, Chris Farber.
	And the same twisted Kafkaesque logic where you have these politicized judicial officials saying the public would lose faith in the administration of justice if we were to release these people.
	People arrested or charged with non-violent mischief charges.
	It's ass backwards, the carriage in front of the horse.
	Upside-down clown world.
	But people have to understand, this is not how anyone is supposed to do anything, especially when this was published in the context of a live investigation.
	It's transparently, superficially politicized nonsense.
	And Donald, do you want to touch on how the Nova Scotia incident contrasts to this and maybe talk about Brenda's lucky involvement in that one?
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	For those who don't know, we had a terrible mass murder.
	A man dressed as an RCMP officer with a phony RCMP car and drove throughout Nova Scotia, murdering people, including a police officer.
	And that was a horrific, horrific series of homicides, serial killer.
	And right in the middle of that, only a few days in, the commissioner of the RCMP came to the people in charge of the homicide investigation, these officers.
	And ask them to release photos of the weapons to further the Liberal government's political agenda.
	And it was said just like that.
	And they refused.
	They had enough integrity to refuse.
	They said, no, we're in the middle of an investigation.
	Where did these weapons come from?
	We don't want to alert anyone.
	No.
	And they refused and they recorded her.
	As a matter of fact, they even threatened her.
	That if she didn't stop, it would be obstruct police and they would come to Ottawa and arrest her.
	That's the story I get from the inside.
	And I believe it.
	They refused.
	But here?
	No.
	We laid out all the photos.
	Even if it destroyed the ongoing investigation, the purported ongoing investigation into these other conspirators that have never been found.
	To this date, there's no other conspirators, quote conspirators, nobody else charged or named at this point.
	No, absolutely not.
	And I do want to make one point that I do know about the evidence, and that's this.
	There were a number of undercover officers, we know that, that were sent in, just as they did in Ottawa and all the rest.
	Okay, fine.
	But they sent in two good-looking girls.
	The good-looking girls saddled up to these four men, or some of them, and the beer was flowing, and who knows what was said, but I'll tell you what was, I'll tell you, much of the warrant and the, in fact, the invocation of the Emergencies Act all flows from what was purportedly said to a couple of these good-looking girls.
	And you know?
	They were not wearing recording devices.
	That's amazing.
	No, it's not amazing.
	It's convenient.
	They made a decision to not wear recording devices.
	Now, these days, an Apple Watch, a pen, I'm holding up a recording device right now.
	Looks like a Duracell battery, right?
	Sure.
	You can build them into bras.
	They have cameras that are pens and watches.
	And I'm talking technology five years ago because I used it every day in my undercover and deep cover work.
	These officers made a decision to not record it.
	Let me ask folk here.
	We've been at this for an hour and 20 minutes.
	Does anybody remember the third sentence that Viva said when he came on this show?
	I don't know, but I'm certain I have it.
	Give me the words.
	It had an ominous, for sure.
	Huh?
	What is it?
	It had an ominous.
	What was the fourth thing that Granny said?
	Give me your words.
	Thesis is messing up my connection.
	You cannot.
	And you know, it's called...
	Oh, am I still there?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Look, I am not saying that they deliberately lied.
	I don't know that.
	But they deliberately made a decision to not record it.
	And this whole house of cards relies very much on what was said to these two good-looking girls over a couple of beers that they wrote down, what, 10 hours later?
	Come on.
	There's a word for it, and every police officer who's watching this knows it.
	It's called scripting.
	But we'll get to that in another show.
	Absolutely.
	So Harrison, do you have any more questions at this point?
	And what are you thinking about your article and your coverage?
	Yeah, I mean, one thing I want to try and get from you guys, since you guys have been following it, and Donald, since you're...
	You're well into this and really are honing in on the details.
	What do you guys think is going to happen here?
	Do you guys think that these men are going to get...
	Well, I guess the application for bail hasn't been submitted, so I guess that's not coming.
	But playing this out, do you guys think that they're going to try and just kick this down the road, hit that 30-month mark, and then let them go and never get their day in court?
	Or do you think that eventually they're going to take this in and have at it?
	I mean, what do you guys think is going to happen here?
	Well, let me start with Granny on that, and then we'll work way down.
	Honestly, this is such a bigger picture.
	We know what it's attached to.
	It never fails.
	We know what it's attached to, and it's a bigger picture.
	And again, it's hour by hour, day by day.
	I'm sure they want to make it disappear, but can they make it disappear?
	Because the truth is with the four men.
	And we keep saying that.
	When these four men come out, the truth comes out with them.
	So, I don't know.
	You're not sure.
	Danielle, what do you think it might happen here?
	It's been our worry for quite some time that the Crown is going to try to get pushed into that Jordan Act as much as they can, because I kind of believe that they think, well, as soon as we're...
	Over that line, we can just call it a technicality.
	And unfortunately, there was just way too much evidence.
	We couldn't process it in time.
	There's an excuse.
	It goes away.
	Like Granny said, well, we won't let it go away, but it doesn't get put in the books.
	You know, it's not in the...
	Um, case law, you know, at that point it goes down, it can go down in the public cause any way they want to spin it.
	So, uh, it actually was mentioned in the pretrial motions when they were trying to do some scheduling and the crown started throwing out the dates of, uh, like next June.
	Right.
	So you got to think like when we talk about trying to schedule a date, we've got four defense teams, we've got three, three.
	Crown prosecutors.
	We've got a judge.
	And all of these people have other people who may also be in remand centres at the time.
	So there's a bit of an odd little dance that they have to do.
	The judge definitely was like, we need to push this along.
	When the dates of June started getting thrown around, he says, I don't want to let this get anywhere close to that.
	And obviously he probably has to say that because it's his job too.
	But it was getting mentioned kind of earlier on when the scheduling was being talked about.
	And we are kind of landing close.
	It is in the notes from the courtroom that the judge did confirm or reiterated that the dates for the trial were, I believe it's May 27th to June 28th of 2024.
	So we're getting really, really close.
	And nothing's normal with these hearings.
	They're going on way longer than what's considered normal.
	And that's been apparent.
	The judges made that very clear.
	It was clear to the new Crown prosecutor that kind of got put into play at the very end.
	He's like, well, why would we need four days for this next application?
	That doesn't make sense.
	And we're all like, oh my gosh, I don't even know if that's enough.
	Like, I'm a little nervous that that's even not enough for this next application because it's just, I don't think the Crown prosecutor, it's very, very sloppy at this point.
	As far as organization and everything, and it's on the Crown's behalf, that was pointed out by the judge.
	It has become very clear.
	I don't like to point fingers in the court.
	It's become very clear about who's holding things up.
	You know, little things.
	Technicality.
	He's got to play a video and nothing's working.
	Oh, we can't find this and we can't find that.
	Oh, here's another big dump of disclosure.
	Like, they did it twice in three weeks at our pretrial motions.
	Dumped two piles of disclosure on the defense.
	Right in front of the judge.
	And I mean, it was hard for him not to see how this is getting pushed and pushed and pushed.
	Okay.
	And then Don, what about you?
	What do you think might be the outcome based on what you've seen so far?
	Well, according to what we've heard, this recusal motion, they used the words gross misconduct in relation to the Crown who was recused.
	Gross misconduct.
	And they also said that some RCMP officers have to lawyer up.
	You put those two things together, frankly, I have never heard in all my years, in and around the courts, someone stand up and say, the Crown's gone because of gross misconduct, and he is probably a witness, and he may well be a defendant.
	Holy smokes!
	That was said in court.
	I don't know what's going to happen this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
	But these men deserve to be...
	These men deserve...
	To be out on bail, at the very least.
	They deserved a trial six, eight months ago.
	And, you know, this is all political.
	Bail was withheld politically.
	The evidence was not processed for a political reason, just to stage it.
	This is just one of the most disgusting cases I have ever seen.
	I would agree with that for sure.
	Jason, we know that For most of this, there's been not a lot of media attention at all to what's been going on.
	How much has the lack of media attention, in your guys' opinion, played into the delay we're seeing now?
	If, for example, we had Newsweek articles and American media and perhaps British media picking this up, making an example of Justin Trudeau as someone who's locking up his political prisoners.
	Do you think that the fact that media haven't been paying attention to this has played a role into what seems to be a serious delay?
	Yeah, actually I was going to touch on that because what I was going to say that I think may happen here is I think their original plan is going to be scuttled now because of us.
	Just like in the convoy because Viva and Vought.
	Zot and other people were walking around streaming.
	I think that scuttled their entire plans in the narrative.
	So I think they're going to have to redo their plans because now there's a lot more people paying attention.
	If we didn't do this and they had the same media...
	You know, not covering it at all.
	I think they would have continued maybe with delays and maybe went all the way to the Jordan law and then came out and said, hey, it was a technicality, the courts, COVID.
	They would have blamed a bunch of reasons for delays and spun it in such a way that it looked like the guys got off on a technicality or a loophole.
	But now that we're covering it and the information is coming out with Newsweek, Viva, Clyde Do Something, etc., etc., I think they're going to have to change their plans and their strategy and maybe...
	Take this seriously and maybe give us a real trial at this point.
	Because I don't think we're going to drop this.
	And if the trial is in 10 months, that will be 27 months that these gentlemen are in there without bail.
	So if they don't get bail and they're all the way to that trial date, they'll be 27 months.
	I don't think the world, I don't think Canada, and I don't think Alberta will just ignore this anymore.
	So thank you to Viva, thank you to Harrison, and thank you to everybody else for bringing this forward.
	Because I think, honestly, without this exposure, they may have had a different plan, which would have been to have these guys kind of quietly go away, but never really have the public understand what happened.
	I think that was their original plan.
	I remember now, it was Sheila Annette Lewis' situation which came to an abrupt resolution once there was a certain amount of traction in social media.
	Look, I'm not so optimistic in terms of what happens here.
	I've noticed an unfortunate...
	It's not a pacification of the Canadian population.
	It's an indifference of the Canadian population for those who are even aware of it.
	And for those who are aware, they've justified this to themselves.
	You know, don't play stupid games.
	You won't win stupid prizes.
	Not realizing this can and has happened.
	I think we can highlight the abuses of the system here.
	The only problem is, and it was my black pill of the year.
	When Commissioner Rouleau came down and ratified Justin Trudeau's conduct invocation of the Emergencies Act, relying, if not heavily, virtually exclusively on the pretext of the Coutts' conspiracy to commit murder to illustrate the violence, that was sort of a setback, to say the least, in terms of changing the public sentiment as to the treatment or accusations against these men.
	I'll be on various platforms this week, which might have an even bigger reach, and I'm going to raise bloody hell about this because it's atrocious.
	Let's assume they're found guilty.
	They should have had a trial by now.
	I happen to know what I think about these charges.
	They're as bogus as all of the other charges of Artur Pawlowski.
	Who's the other pastor?
	I don't want to forget his name like he's not as...
	It's not as egregious as the other ones.
	It was another...
	Oh, there you go.
	Coates was the other one.
	There's three of them.
	These charges, those charges are patently absurd on their face.
	They don't mix in any sort of meaningful violence.
	And notwithstanding that...
	People were still, yeah, lock Tamara Lich up.
	It makes total sense.
	If we let her out, she's going to talk.
	If we let her out, she's going to go on social media.
	If we let Pat King out, he's going to go on social media and organize another protest.
	This is the level of insanity that has infiltrated the minds of too many Canadians.
	So I think people need to understand this is not how even a broken system works.
	And if they're going to be found guilty...
	They ought to have been found guilty within the 18 months of their pretrial detention, and they ought to have been released like every other alleged much more serious criminal in Canada.
	So the disparate treatment is inexplicable, and it should be outrageous or outrage everybody out there.
	So that's it.
	Let's see what public sentiment can do by way of raising awareness and maybe...
	What's the word?
	Responsibilizing is not the word I'm thinking in French.
	What is it called?
	Making those who are supposed to be carrying out their duties here do it with diligence.
	And if they're screwing up and there's gross misconduct, make it loud and clear so that everybody knows the system is fundamentally broken and it should be held to account, not just swept under a rug.
	Absolutely.
	And Harrison, from your side, from the media side, what was your perception and why didn't you guys cover this sooner?
	What was kind of holding you guys back?
	Sorry, Jason.
	Was that directed to me?
	Yes, please.
	Yeah, so Harrison, why was the media, from your perspective, holding back?
	You guys didn't know about it.
	You guys thought the media ban was fully in place.
	What was kind of your perspective?
	Yeah, so from our perspective, we were under the impression, well, frankly, we didn't even really know for a while that this was the condition they were in.
	And then it just also ended up, as I think Viva pointed out earlier, other things come up.
	You know, other things like the case of Tamara Leach, the case of these other people come up, and then you just get buried down.
	And then all of a sudden, you hate to say it, but you just basically almost forget about it.
	And of course, the very idea that Canada has political prisoners rotting away in jail without being able to have their day in court.
	Isn't something that we remind ourselves of, and so it's not something that we end up looking into.
	So it wasn't really anything other than the fact that other things had come up, and this had gotten pushed down, I think, on a lot of our radar.
	But of course, what I don't understand is the hesitancy from these traditional large legacy media outlets, other than, of course, they're on the take from the federal government.
	And reporting on this story accurately, the way Newsweek did, the way Viva has done, the way we just did last week at True North, that would, of course, jeopardize their bottom line.
	That, I think, is an astonishing reality.
	And so when you factor in the idea that most of us just don't even...
	The very idea that we can have this situation in Canada doesn't compute for a lot of people.
	It doesn't even come up in our heads.
	And then you take the idea that these large-scale legacy media outlets...
	They're dying, but they still have a loyal reader base, at least.
	When they don't want to touch it or they go the opposite side, then you really get into a dangerous situation.
	So it wasn't really anything other than the fact that other things had come up.
	But now, if ever, as I said before, now, if ever, is the time to really pay attention to this and make sure that Canadians are aware of what's going on.
	Jason, I'll just add one thing in here.
	I've had Jeremy McKenzie on multiple times where we talked about this back in the day, and it's the dearth of information that says, okay, well, there's nothing to report on, and so when something happens, the news will come up, and when we have more details, we'll talk about it.
	But just to hammer home something that Harrison just said, I had been talking about the insidious corruption by design in government influence over the media.
	CBC directly funded.
	Radio Canada directly funded by the government.
	All the other ones indirectly funded.
	If it's not through subsidies for print media, it's through advertising.
	And we've seen how they flex that muscle.
	When Pablo Rodriguez comes out and says, oh, Meta and Facebook, you're not going to agree to our link tax?
	We're going to cut advertising revenue to you.
	Well, that doesn't work on Meta where their advertising revenue from the government represents, I don't know, one-tenth of one percent of their revenue.
	It does work on CTV Global.
	National Post, Toronto Star.
	It does work on those flailing, crappy outlets who rely not on the traffic they generate through quality reporting, but on subsidies to keep them afloat.
	So they don't cover it.
	And hammer this so that everybody understands this.
	New Democrat member of provincial parliament, Joel Harden, at a protest, lied about being the victim of a fake hate crime.
	Lied about it.
	It was busted by the aggregate knowledge of the internet.
	Did you see any Canadian media cover a member of provincial parliament lying about being the victim of a hate crime?
	No.
	Did they help bust the story?
	No.
	It took independent media, who are not reliant on government handouts for their existence, who succeed and thrive based on the accuracy of the information they provide, to call it out.
	The media doesn't touch it.
	They don't touch these stories that are embarrassing for the government.
	They have become the government lapdogs and not the government watchdogs.
	And the way that that happens is you make them dependent on the government for direct and indirect subsidies, and they will never dare bite the hand that feeds them.
	And that's what the Canadian media has failed to do in this story and many others.
	Absolutely.
	And that's also what Canadians have failed to do because Canadians themselves are not standing up and demanding it.
	It's a small group of independents and people that are outraged, like Granny and Danielle, who keep pushing this.
	And one thing that Danielle's been doing a lot of, Viva and Harrison, is reaching out to media when they do have a little trickle of information that they put out, but it's always wrong.
	So Danielle has to reach out to them and tell them to correct it.
	For example, they would say they were in trial, but they're not in trial.
	They're in pretrial.
	So Danielle's actually been very active, like an ombudsman almost.
	Going around trying to correct every little piece that's coming out as small of a trickle as it was.
	And I think, Viva and Harrison, this is concerning to me because a true democracy needs to have well-functioning media so that we can hold people accountable and understand what's going on.
	This is very scary that it's...
	Now becoming the citizen's job to police the media.
	And Harrison, I'm going to go to you quickly here.
	How do you think this might actually change media going forward?
	Is there going to be a lot more citizen journalists?
	Are there going to be a lot more independent journalists?
	And then what is True North going to be doing to kind of change going forward so that they don't get left in the dark and not know what's going on?
	Because you're 100% right, Harrison.
	This is what most Canadians did.
	We forgot.
	Let's just be honest.
	We just forgot.
	It wasn't in the news anymore.
	We moved on to other things.
	The POEC was quite the distraction.
	There was other things that were quite the distraction.
	But these four gentlemen, they were sitting there the entire time.
	So Harrison, can you maybe, and I'm not asking you to have a crystal ball and put this in stone, but how do you think media is now going to change because of stuff like this and work from Viva and us as well?
	Well, it's tough to see exactly.
	I think we're already seeing a big evolution in media here.
	I think it's safe to say that a growing number of Canadians, and it grows by the day, are just giving up on their traditional forms of media, the sources that they used to rely on.
	None of them are, frankly, reliable these days because all you have to do is do a Google search and figure out who's on the take from the government.
	What we saw during the Freedom Convoy has become, it launched a bunch of careers.
	It also gave people the idea that all they had to do was just show up on the ground, show Canadians the truth, put themselves in the middle of what's happening.
	And there's an appetite there.
	So once people realize that there's a market, there's an appetite for people who want to just see the truth and don't want the clean polish.
	Of a fancy, big-name title on a traditional newspaper, then more people are going to start to do that.
	And so, I mean, to predict what's going to happen, I think that we're going to see more of what we already have, which is independent creators creating their own, making their own content, getting themselves on the ground into the story.
	And once people realize that there's an audience there, it's going to keep happening.
	And then I guess the hope is...
	Although maybe some of us would like to see these legacy media news outlets crumble and not be operational, I think the hope is that these legacy media outlets realize where they've gone wrong and they make their own changes.
	That's what we hope to see.
	And I don't know, I guess we can hope that, but I'm not sure if we're going to get that.
	No, that's a fair...
	Yeah, go ahead.
	A democracy requires a free and independent media.
	It's the literal definition of fascism, like Mussolini's fascism, when enterprise, media, and government are all working together for the same interests or at the very least in some incestuous relationship to protect each other's interests.
	Corporate media cannot go bankrupt soon enough, fast enough, but people have to really understand.
	I never understood the hashtag defund the CBC until a few years ago.
	Hold on a second.
	It was in our chat in Locals.
	People have to understand how bad it is in Canada.
	Some people don't.
	But someone said, Danielle Smith, the Premier of Alberta, needs to be embarrassed about what is happening here.
	When you find a politician with a conscience, and it's rare, I only say what I do publicly, but I was publicly shaming Danielle Smith.
	Whether or not it had any impact whatsoever on the situation of Sheila Lewis, who knows?
	But when a politician has a shred of dignity...
	Public shaming, which is nothing more than calling attention to the injustice, might work.
	When they don't have a shred of dignity, and you're talking about the Justin Trudeau's of the world, the true, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'll call him a narcissistic psychopath, whatever.
	When you're dealing with those, what impacts them is not a public shaming them, but rather a public shaming that causes public opinion to turn, and they say, oh, well, now it's popular to do X, whereas before I thought it was popular to do Y. That's when public shaming tends to work.
	all around.
	And then sometimes also where it works is publicly shame them in front of the European Parliament where they lash out and do something stupid and then make a mistake.
	So public shaming can be very fruitful, but the media deserves it.
	The media needs it.
	Shame the CBC for what they do cover and how dishonestly they do cover it, but also for what they don't cover.
	Shame them all.
	And those with a conscience might change and those without a conscience might change due to the pressure of...
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, like you mentioned there, the media and corporations and the government getting together, that's fascism.
	So I'm going to ask a question for Harrison and then you, Viva, because Harrison has to run and then we'll wrap this up around the two-hour mark.
	So Harrison, C-11, which is a bill in Canada which basically forces Canadian content onto internet providers and platforms.
	And then Bill C-18, which is another one, which is forcing news aggregation and payments for news, which is causing people like Facebook to drop news in Canada altogether.
	And we even saw an image of the CBC News on Twitter.
	So, Harrison, we'll get this from you, and then, yeah, okay, you have to run, so thanks for your time.
	But what do you think C11 and C18 are going to be doing to media in the future, and how is that impacting True North right now?
	Is there any things that you have to make sure of, Canadian content-wise?
	Or, yeah, how is C11 and C18 impacting you right now, Harrison?
	Yeah, well, certainly.
	So C11 is designed to, as the government says, promote Canadian content.
	Now, there's nothing that True North produces that is not 100% Canadian content.
	The news we report on is Canadian.
	All of the journalists writing it...
	Everything we do is Canadian, but I can guarantee you that we are not going to be deemed as Canadian content by the federal government.
	So what happens is, of course, the CRTC, the government regulator, then forces these social media companies like YouTube and Facebook and all these big social media players to force legacy media content on top of your feeds and then put content like True North videos, like Jason Levine's podcast.
	They're going to force that down everyone's feeds.
	And then C18 is forcing these Facebook and Google to either pay up for news links, or as they say, Google and Facebook will just stop news from being available on Google, or as we're seeing right now on Facebook and Meta, on Instagram, excuse me.
	And right now on Instagram, I'm not sure if you can see it.
	It was on my phone.
	You had CBC News, Global News, all of these major, basically all these major propaganda outlets for the federal government are being blocked for Canadians, which is one of those backfire things.
	Now, you ask about how it's going to happen or what's going to happen with True North.
	The biggest thing that is going to happen with us is that we have to reach our audience directly.
	So we're talking through emails and other notifications.
	And that actually, I think, is going to help legacy media in a strange way.
	It's going to hurt, but it might actually help us because what it does is it actually forces our audience and ourselves to stop relying on big tech to get our audience to our work.
	I think that ultimately, we can't trust big tech and we can't trust the legacy media.
	And the federal government is trying to wage this phony war against big tech, but in reality, They're both working for the same outcomes.
	We know that YouTube censors content that shouldn't be censored.
	Google, Facebook, Twitter before Elon Musk has censored content that shouldn't have been censored.
	Another federal government is censoring content, reaching the same goals.
	It's going to force our audience to not rely on big tech to get to our work, which I think in a long way might be good for us.
	But these two pieces of legislation are certainly...
	I think designed to promote legacy media, promote the propaganda message, and of course try to stop and stunt the growth of independent media like True North, like other people who are growing at a rapid pace, and giving the government lots of headaches, lots of problems.
	They've never really had to contest with an independent media quite like this, the way they're seeing it now with all of these new outlets and all these creators.
	So it's no surprise we're seeing these pieces of legislation come through.
	There's also one more that's going to come through as well, online hate speech legislation, which will basically make it illegal to post what the government determines to be hate speech.
	In the UK...
	Basically, what happens is cops show up at your door if you post a meme that is too close to the target.
	That might be deemed offensive by the police.
	So that's what the federal government is trying to do.
	It's not been introduced yet, but that has been publicly announced that the federal government is trying to do that.
	We're going to have this, I call it the trifecta of censorship legislation, which is really going to reshape our media landscape in this country.
	But hopefully it does actually stop or hopefully it pushes the Canadian audience to not rely on big tech and go straight to the source, go straight to our sources here, which one can only help, right?
	Yeah, and thank you very much for that answer.
	It was a wonderful answer, Harrison, a very honest one.
	And yeah, these are the things that we're looking at.
	Yeah, thanks, guys.
	It's been a pleasure, and I will be staying close to this story.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	We'll look forward to hearing from you, Harrison.
	Harrison, see you soon.
	Now, Jason, I'm going to run as well, but let me answer another part of that question, which Harrison alluded to.
	That link tax, everyone also has to understand what exactly is intended with that link tax.
	It was intended to compel Google and Meta, Facebook.
	Sorry, hold on one second.
	It's Meta is, I forget which is which now.
	It's Facebook.
	Meta is Facebook.
	Meta is Facebook.
	Google is Google.
	It was to compel them to provide a payment.
	Simply for linking through to the original source.
	So you go to Google, you find an article, CBC News, link to it.
	Oh, now Google has to pay CBC News for linking through to the original source.
	And some people say, well, why?
	Oh, it was to help small news outlets?
	Bull crap.
	The small news outlets or the ones that succeed off their own traffic have their own revenue.
	It would be nice to get that, but that's not what it was for.
	What it was actually for, in my humble opinion, my assessment, was to find a surreptitious, indirect way to get even more money to those who would pop up in Google search results, the government subsidized MSN media that the government can no longer subsidize directly or indirectly through COVID ads and whatever.
	And so a third way of surreptitiously funding flailing MSN media was Bill C-18 and the purpose of it.
	Now that they say, well, we're just not going to link through to them.
	Oh, who does that hurt?
	Well, it doesn't hurt the government-subsidized media.
	It only hurts the more independent ones.
	And so it was a win-win from the government's perspective.
	Either they find another way of indirectly subsidizing their already fully subsidized government lackeys, or it shuts off access to information, in which case the government has even more control over who sees what in Canada.
	So it was a wonderful win-win situation for the government and a lose-lose to Canadians.
	Yeah, and a challenge for me, because I don't get to opt in or out, so I can't opt out, which means I won't be suppressed.
	Because what we noticed on Twitter over the last two months or so, there's been a dramatic drop in reach for anybody that's doing journalism.
	And we think that Twitter did turn on some sort of C18 limiter, because they may have to be paying for all of these retweets and stuff.
	So I've noticed a dramatic drop, even as we're expanding everywhere else on Twitter.
	And I think that...
	The reason the government is doing a C-18 is to slow down our reach.
	Without consent, we don't get to opt out.
	We can't say, no, no, no.
	We don't want C-18 payments and protection.
	We want to opt out of that.
	We just want the natural, organic reach.
	We don't even get that choice.
	And then at the same time, Viva, we don't become accredited media.
	So they get to put us on the C-18 list for distribution, trying to raise money for us as small independents.
	But yet we can't be accredited media at the same time and go into the parliament and have access.
	But you'll be considered Canadian content for the Online Streaming Act, where they're going to say, if it's not sufficiently Canadian, if you're talking too much about Trump, we'll downgrade you, we'll demote you.
	And meanwhile, CBC talking about Brittany Griner's memoir, they'll get boosted because CBC is CanCon.
	It's all by design.
	Now, you're working a lot with Rumble, who relocated, I believe, because of the C-11.
	Is that correct?
	They've got offices in Canada and in the U.S., so they're hedging their bets, but it's a real risk in terms of what they're going to be able to do in terms of operating in Canada once all this crap gets going through.
	And also, once what is otherwise free speech protected in the States becomes outright criminalized in Canada.
	They'll have to make some decisions.
	But they operate both in the States and Canada, with offices in both countries.
	Right.
	But we can certainly agree, this is not free media.
	Especially when you have bills like this in place.
	This is not free media.
	It's not a free country.
	Canada's not a free country.
	It's not as bad as, I don't know, if you want to compare it to other countries, it's not a free country.
	And for our own protection, that justification only goes so far.
	It is, however, the difference between Canada and the US.
	It seems that Canadians prefer...
	A safe prison versus the risks of the wild, to oversimplify it.
	Well, just like the convoy and your work in Ottawa, Viva, anything you do with this, any amplification you do on this is going to go a tremendous way for us.
	And I believe we just became a thorn in the government side in Alberta on this matter.
	I think they wanted it to stay very quiet.
	And anytime the government wants to do something, it's almost my instinct to do the opposite of it.
	So if they want us to be quiet, we're going to get loud.
	And if they want us to stay away, we're going to come close.
	So I'm in Lethbridge this entire week, Viva.
	I'll be in the court sitting with...
	In the media section, probably sitting beside Rebel and other people.
	So I'll be reporting back.
	So I'll keep giving you the information.
	And if you want, from time to time, I can jump on your show.
	You just hit me up.
	We'll do what we can.
	Absolutely.
	And this afternoon, there's been a bit of a delay, but I'm going live with Tamara Lich.
	So we're going to talk about her book and everything.
	Anytime.
	I'll be live daily, as I typically do.
	So you pop in and out, or we do something specific on the issue.
	Sounds great.
	We'll work with whatever.
	There's no Bill C111 that stops us from talking right now.
	Not yet.
	Not yet.
	Don't give them any ideas, right?
	They don't need us to give them the ideas.
	They're reading George Orwell.
	They've read 1984.
	They know what to do.
	Fair enough.
	It's supposed to stay fiction, but I think all libraries are moving that to fact now, so we'll check that out.
	Thank you very much, Viva.
	It was a very valuable time.
	I really appreciate that a lot.
	Gentlemen, enjoy the rest of the day, all of you.
	Thank you very much.
	Yeah, you'll take care.
	We'll talk to you soon, Viva.
	All right, bye-bye.
	Bye.
	And then, yeah, I'm going to go to the team here.
	We're going to wrap up because we're almost at the two-hour mark.
	So we're going to wrap up.
	We've got a lot of work today.
	We've got a court to get to.
	So I'm going to start with Danielle.
	So, Danielle, how did you find that session?
	And are you feeling a little bit more optimistic that media all over the world now is really, really taking a closer look at this?
	Yeah, it's pretty exciting.
	I mean, we, I guess we've been in it for so long and we've been so by ourselves that it, I mean...
	We're trying to shake a little bit of bitterness off at the same time, if I'm going to be totally honest.
	But we're also very grateful that it's coming for the men's, you know, in their best interest at the right time.
	It's all about the timing.
	So I do encourage everybody to go back into Jason's, into the morning show's background.
	He's been doing them for quite some time.
	I encourage everybody to go back and start watching from the beginning, and there's a lot of information there, and moving forward.
	And keep hitting share, because that's really helping.
	It shows that it's a big thing.
	So please do that if you can.
	Sharing is caring, for sure.
	And Granny, do you feel more optimistic, and is Jacqueline still with you?
	Maybe she can say some final comments?
	Well, I'm standing out in the bushes right now, beside the house, because I couldn't get a signal again.
	So she's inside the trailer.
	I can't get to her because I'm running out of power.
	So, yes, I'm feeling better.
	And I'm like Danielle.
	I feel a...
	I try not to focus on that people weren't here from the start, but they're here now.
	So we need to hang on to that.
	And I want to ask people to go to the Alberta Political Prisoners page on Facebook, and you can find all kinds of information about the men and what's going on.
	And any kind of updates will also be placed there.
	And if you can help out with sending some money to the e-transfer or the Give, Send, Go, please go there.
	Every little bit helps.
	And again...
	$5 can make a difference if 10,000 people donate.
	So never underestimate the small donations.
	They do add up.
	So love you all and thank you and keep sharing.
	And can you tell I've had coffee now, so I can talk.
	That's awesome, Granny.
	And then, Donald, when I reached out to you, there was no viewers.
	There was no articles.
	There was nothing really going on other than Granny ringing the bell and Danielle sitting there collecting the information.
	Now, I'm looking at the numbers between VivaStreams and all our other platforms.
	We had over 3,000 concurrent live viewers watching this, and there's going to be hundreds of thousands of people that watch this throughout the day.
	And, Donald, this kind of stems from your first article.
	So you did a bunch of research, sat with us, went through the information, dug around, read all the mainstream articles, did everything, brought it together, gave your opinion.
	So first of all, thank you very much for taking the time to look into this.
	But did you ever think this would happen so quickly that so many people would care this much and then show up daily?
	This is their 21st day now of doing the show and it's been growing every single day.
	Did you see this coming and how do you feel about it now that it's kind of here?
	I'm very optimistic.
	But when you reached out to me, I had no idea these guys were still in jail.
	These four men were still in jail.
	And I was just shocked.
	And then when I learned the whole situation, look, Canada has political prisoners.
	We've got four of them sitting in prison right now.
	They're there because they are political prisoners.
	And I just hope that this message keeps growing.
	And I'm very optimistic it will.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Don.
	And me as well.
	I think that we came in at the right time, whether it's divine intervention or it's just the way it works.
	We came in at the right time.
	Granny got connected.
	We decided to do a show.
	And at first, I think somebody may have said to comment, would we have enough?
	I think it may have been you, Don, that said, would we have enough to do here?
	Would we have enough for the show?
	And I think you now see that not only do we have enough, it's a bit of a calling.
	We kind of have to do this and get this information out.
	Do you feel that way there, Don?
	Oh, absolutely.
	And the more we learn about this so-called evidence and the so-called magic invisible co-conspirators that were never found, yeah, we see what happened here.
	And we just want the world to know these men deserve, they deserved a trial eight months ago, but they sure deserve bail tomorrow.
	Yes.
	Let's see what happens.
	Yeah, so we're going to be reporting all week.
	So we'll be setting up some special shows.
	I won't be doing any interviews except for Friday.
	So on Friday, I have Dr. Peter McCullough on.
	So we'll continue that one because it's a very important interview about detoxing the vaccination harm.
	So we'll be doing that on Friday.
	But the rest of this week, after court, we'll go live and we'll give updates on what's going on.
	I've been asked now by True North, Viva...
	Newsweek and possibly Fox News to continue to provide the information to them.
	I did reach out again to some more media today.
	That includes the New York Times.
	That includes the Edmonton Sun.
	That includes a whole bunch of smaller organizations that we identified.
	So I hope we'll continue to get this message out and continue to grow the amount of people who are amplifying this.
	So thank you all very much.
	We're going to wrap up because we've got a lot to do.
	We've got to get ready for court.
	I know Granny's got to get ready.
	Danielle's going to be there as well.
	So thank you all very much.
	I love you all very much for being here.
	And I'm going to give a little special shout out here at the end.
	So thank you all very much.
	Well, folks, if you're on Viva's channel, this is the first time for you to see Good Morning with Jason.
	We do this every morning, 6 a.m. Mountain Time, 8 a.m. Eastern.
	So you can feel free to come and subscribe and join us again tomorrow.
	As you heard there, Viva's going to be staying on top of this.
	He's going to amplify this.
	He's your man.
	You know what he's here for.
	I see about, let me go take a look here, 2,500 people on Viva's channel watching us right now.
	So if you can all go and jump to my channel as well, give me a follow, give me a subscribe.
	You can follow me every day.
	And if you can go ahead and share.
	Share, share, share.
	If each one of you shared it just once, that would be more shares than we've had since the very beginning of this.
	So thank you all very much for hanging out with us, to pay attention to this.
	And if you can do something, go to the Facebook page or you can go to grannymckay.ca and get started.
	You can send letters to the men.
	You can reach out and let them know what you're thinking.
	We have some links about how to reach out to the Minister of Justice to let them know what you think.
	There's a link right here.
	For contacting the inmates as well.
	You'll need their number that's beside their name and the ticker.
	But yes, if you want to send some sort of hope to the men, they would love to hear from you.
	So Canada, thank you all very much.
	And around the world, thank you all very much for being here today, taking the time to find out what's going on with the coots four and to know they're not forgotten.
	Okay, Canada?
	I love you all very much.
	Thank you very much to Viva.
	Thank you very much for Harrison.
	The cat's out of the bag now, officially.
	Love you Canada, all of you.

▲