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Feb. 24, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

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Edition 794 - Adamski, UAPs And Dreams

Three guests from a recent radio show - J M DeBord on some new research about external interactions with dreaming people... Gary Heseltine from ICER on a new initiative to help pilots report UAP sightings... And Glenn Steckling talks about his family's long involvement with the work of George Adamski - world-famous 20th Century Ufologist and contactee...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	And I am definitely hoping that everything in your world is good.
	The Northern Hemisphere seems to be swinging towards spring.
	Here in London, we've had this kind of faux spring, this kind of phony spring going on for about a month or more now.
	And over the last 24 hours or so, we had torrential rain.
	I stupidly went out to the shops yesterday and wasn't properly dressed for the rain, and I got absolutely drenched in the space of about 10 minutes after leaving home.
	So, you know, that'll be a lesson for me then.
	It'll teach me not to take an umbrella with me.
	At the moment, the sun is beating through my window, and there is every indication today that we are maybe flipping over into spring like we used to.
	But we used to do that around about March.
	So we seem to be about a month ahead of ourselves.
	But enough weather talk.
	Thank you very much for all of your support and the nice emails that you sent.
	Don't forget, of course, when you get in touch with me to tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
	And also if your email requires a reply or a response, then please tell me.
	I did this on the radio show, but I want to do it here too to make sure that he hears it.
	John in Colchester, you've had a lot of hospital involvement, haven't you, John, for seven weeks or two months now.
	I hope that things are now turning the corner and improving for you.
	But I just wanted to do that.
	That very quick shout out for John in Colchester to make sure that you know it.
	Wherever in the world you are, please know that I get to see every email as it comes in.
	I may be a little slow on the response if you need responses, but you do get responses when they're required, and I read them all as they come in.
	That's how I spend my nights.
	Exciting life I have, hey.
	Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his ongoing hard work on the show.
	Thanks, Adam, for everything that you do.
	Three items from the radio show on this edition of The Unexplained.
	First one is about sleep and dreams, a fascinating piece that I read, and the details are actually on the piece from the radio show, so I won't go into great detail about them.
	But we get dream analyst J.M. Debord, Jason DeBoard in America, just to give us some brief thoughts about this, the idea that you might be able to interact with people when they are in the dream state.
	I think we're getting very, very close to the day when we'll be able to actually see, read, and maybe project people's dreams.
	I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
	It's just part of the tapestry of modern science that we're in, but it seems to be coming.
	Item number two, first of two ufological items.
	Number one is Gary Heseltine from ICA, I-C-E-R, and also the founder of UFO Truth magazine.
	ICE is the International Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research.
	Vice President is Gary.
	We talk about a new initiative that they've started, a website, a place to go, if you're a pilot and you have things to report.
	That is sorely needed.
	So Gary Hesseltine, guest number two.
	Then a longer guest, Glenn Steckling, will talk about him and his family's involvement with the controversial and amazing character who was Georgia Damsky, a man who was around in the 1940s and 1950s, claimed to have had direct contact with extraterrestrials,
	traveled to their planets in some cases, and a man who had very high-level contacts and was also, for example, invited to Europe by the Queen of the Netherlands in 1952, I think it was, Queen Juliana.
	So a remarkable man, and Glenn Steckling and his family have been almost curators of his legacy for many decades.
	We'll talk with him as the third item.
	So that's what's going to be the bill of fare on this edition of the...
	They would say, and tonight's bill of fare on BBC2 goes like this.
	But, you know, tonight's or today's rundown on the unexplained is, first of all, JM Deboard about dreams, Gary Haseltyne about his new initiative for pilots reporting UFOs, UAPs, and then Glenn Steckling talking about George Adamski.
	So three interesting items from a recent radio show.
	Thank you very much for supporting me in all that I do.
	I couldn't do any of it without you.
	We are coming up to the 8th, or is it the 8th?
	Yeah, the 8th anniversary of the TV show and the 18th anniversary that happens to be in the same month of the podcast.
	If you remember back that far, the podcast had quite a slow start.
	I think I was doing something like one show a month in those days.
	And we've gradually cranked it up and increased the output, and then it was all joined by the radio show, which is still running eight years ago, exactly.
	And thank you for supporting me every step of this very interesting, sometimes difficult route.
	Okay, I'm going to shut up now and get on to the items.
	Item number one is J.M. Debord, Jason DeBoard, and we're going to go into your dreams here.
	These last couple of weeks, for reasons that I cannot determine, and I'm not the only one, people I know have been through this too, having trouble sleeping.
	And then when I do, I have the strangest dreams.
	For some, you know, bizarre reason, I have dreams that make no sense whatsoever.
	And that seems to go in phases for me.
	And talking to my friends, those few I have, they seem to be going through this too.
	So what is this all about?
	There's a bit of research that was carried in the conversation, and it was also retailed by another website as well.
	Some French researchers.
	Research suggests it's possible to interact with volunteers while they are asleep and even converse with them at certain key moments.
	We already knew lucid dreamers were capable of sending information from their dreams, but can they also receive it?
	In other words, is it possible to talk to a lucid dreamer?
	These people who did this research in France, and you can see this piece in the Conversation website, we exposed a lucid dreamer to tactile stimuli while he was asleep.
	We also asked him closed questions like, do you like chocolate?
	Yes, I do.
	He was able to respond by smiling to indicate yes and by frowning to indicate no.
	Lucid dreamers were also presented with simple mathematical equations verbally, And they were able to provide appropriate answers while remaining asleep.
	So it seems from this research that you might be able to reach people while they're asleep.
	Or might they be partly awake anyway?
	I'm confused.
	Let's try and clarify the confusion.
	J.M. Debord, Jason, is here, author and teacher of Dream Interpretation and Analysis.
	Jason, nice to have you on again.
	How are you?
	It's great to be back, Howard.
	I'm doing great.
	Interesting subject for tonight, huh?
	Terrific subject.
	You know, there is nothing more mysterious, I think, in this world than your dreams, because it is a completely different, almost like a kingdom.
	It's a reality beyond this reality, isn't it?
	Yeah, it's like living a second life.
	You have another life that's in your dreams and in your sleep, where you can do things and be even another person and live an entire another life in your dreams.
	It's fascinating.
	And sometimes, certainly at periods like the one that I've had, and as I said, I'm not alone in this, sometimes they can be extraordinarily realistic, but bear absolutely no relation to what has been going on, I think, in my life at the time.
	So it makes it all very strange.
	But what about this research?
	The claims that you might be able to actually reach people and get responses from them while they're actually asleep and perhaps as part of the dreaming process for them.
	I don't understand that.
	How would that work?
	Well, in these studies, in that study that you mentioned and others that have been done, the people who are in the lucid, they're dreaming and they can induce themselves into a lucid state and they're able to respond to stimuli that they're given.
	Mostly it's through like questions, which you mentioned.
	But there have also been experiments and other things, such as using smells and other types of sounds, like say the sound of an ambulance, and the see if the dreamer can recognize it.
	Now, one of the things to know about this is that it's a very rare skill, the ability to become lucid and to control and stabilize the environment, like these few people who were chosen as the test subjects.
	Pretty rare thing to be able to do.
	But you know, Howard, they've been able to do these experiments also in a more randomized environment.
	There was a study by the Association for the Study of Dreams at their annual conference where they had a person in the study who were there at the conference, and they wrote down the imagery from their dreams that night.
	And they've had some really remarkable hits.
	Dr. Claire Johnson is a Brit, and she was one of the people in the conference.
	And the image was a tree.
	The broadcaster was sending out just this image, and she was concentrating on being like a radio broadcasting tower.
	All the receivers are the people who are dreaming.
	And Claire picked up on the image of the tree and actually spoke with in that lucid state, the person who was the sender from the dream or the sender from the experiment.
	So this was one of the most spectacular hits in the history of this experiment that they run annually.
	And they've done it more than 20 times and have produced some really spectacular results.
	I think it proves that you can receive messages, whether images or words or other types of sensations in your dreams.
	Does it mean that you're just not sleeping?
	This is a really dumb question, okay?
	Forgive me for it.
	But does it mean, Jason, that perhaps you're just not sleeping very deeply?
	Well, there are times that you can pick up things when you're not sleeping very deeply and it's going on in your environment.
	You could hear a sound and it translates.
	You hear it.
	Your body, your mind has to maintain a certain awareness level while you're sleeping because there could be some kind of a danger situation if there's a fire that started or something like that.
	You need to be able to hear the smoke alarm.
	If you're dead asleep, you're not going to be able to wake up out of it.
	So even when you're in intense dreaming, there is part of the mind that's maintaining a certain level of awareness of what's going on around you.
	And it does make it possible that people are actually a little bit awake while they're receiving these quote-unquote messages in their dreams.
	But if it was a good study, and I'd have to go through it to see the particulars, I just read the summary of it.
	They would have them hooked up to an EEG and they can measure brainwaves that can tell whether or not you are in a dreaming or awake state.
	So if the test subjects were actually awake and hearing and responding, kind of faking the test a little bit, you'd be able to tell from their brain waves.
	Okay.
	And I suppose just at the end of this, and I'm sorry, this time it's a very short conversation, but we'll do a longer conversation too.
	The real interesting stuff, and this is being talked about and experimented around now, would be the idea to use technology to be able to go into that dream state and actually observe and realize what the person is experiencing.
	Now, I don't doubt, and if you'd said it to me five years ago, I'd have said that.
	I would never be able to do that.
	That's a private state.
	It's within your head.
	It's never going to get beyond that.
	But actually, it's starting to look that way, isn't it?
	That we might be able to enter people's dreams.
	Yeah, it is.
	And in fact, as a moderator at the r slash dreams at Reddit.com, I've kind of tuned into the pulse of what people are dreaming about.
	And we have a number of people who've come in and said, I left my YouTube playlist running and I could swear that there were ads that were being delivered based on what I was dreaming.
	And it does really sound too far out to possibly be true, but one of the biggest new areas, hottest areas of marketing is how to reach people subconsciously while they're sleeping and dreaming and be able to insert things into such like a YouTube playlist, for example, to be able to insert things into it, like the sound of a can of Coke opening, that sound.
	Or other beverages.
	Or other beverages, yeah.
	And it triggers that memory, that image of the, and your associations with that brand.
	And this is a hot thing in advertising right now, and there's a lot of money going into it.
	So I wouldn't be surprised if it's already being deployed on the public and people don't realize that.
	JM DeBoard, Jason DeBoard, thank you so much.
	Author and teacher of Dream Interpretation and Analysis.
	We're going to get him back on here soon.
	But I just, I find anything to do with dreams really fascinating because it is such a mystery realm, isn't it?
	That's what it is.
	It's a mystery realm that we don't fully understand.
	I meet people in my dreams who I have never encountered before.
	And sometimes, you know, I shake their hand.
	They are three-dimensional.
	They are effectively real, but I don't know them.
	Where do they come from?
	How can they be?
	That's for another time.
	And my thanks to Jason DeBoard, J.M. Debord, for his analysis of that.
	I'm sure we will hear more about science interacting with us in our dream state.
	Whether that is a good thing or whether you should be allowed the privacy that you deserve in all aspects of your life in your dreaming state, or whether those dreams are profound or communicative in some way.
	And we need to access them to understand, if we are communicating, what is going on.
	I've had the weirdest of dreams lately.
	Another phase of it, I had a phase of it last year.
	And I don't know whether somebody up there is trying to communicate with me somehow or whether it's all just random nonsense because I've got a lot to worry about at the moment.
	I simply have no idea, but I would love to get a handle on it.
	The next item, one of two ufological items here from my radio show, Gary Hesseltime from ICER, the International Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research.
	Gary will talk about a new initiative that they've come up with to allow pilots to be able to safely and comprehensively report their UAP and UFO experiences.
	Unexplained Mysteries reported this.
	An unreleased video reportedly exists that shows an unknown object interfering with a nuclear missile.
	Now, we've heard about this from as far back as the 1960s, haven't we?
	According to reports, the tape that was filmed in California September 15th, 1964, was viewed by U.S. Air Force officers, Lieutenant Law Jacobs and Major Florence Mansmann, who were part of a team who'd been tasked with recording missile test launches using some special equipment.
	The video itself, which has not been released to the public, allegedly shows a saucer-shaped craft circling what is believed to be an unarmed dummy missile after it is detected, or detached rather, from its booster.
	It can then be seen firing some sort of laser beam at the missile, apparently disabling it.
	In a letter, Mansmann later described the object as a classic disk.
	The center seemed to be a raised bubble.
	We've heard that before.
	The entire lower saucer shape was glowing, seemed to be rotating.
	At the point of beam release, the object turned like an object required to be in a position to fire from a platform.
	But again, this could be my own assumption from being in aerial combat, he added.
	We might talk or try to talk with Robert Salas about that.
	He's written an awful lot about these things.
	The Sun newspaper, a pilot has claimed he saw a UFO twice the size of a city during a flight before it disappeared.
	Captain Arturo Sucido said his plane was plunged into total darkness in the sky before he noticed the gigantic spacecraft.
	He was flying over the central Mexican state of Quatero, heading to Los Angeles, when he encountered a strange light in the sky.
	He immediately thought it was human-made, possibly a Starlink satellite or something like that.
	Mr. Sorcido said suddenly we were plunged into total darkness with only the panels lit up.
	I then saw a beam of light that I first thought was something from Starlink as I'd seen some images about Elon Musk's company, basically a line of satellites that shine brightly in the sky.
	The pilot said the object was so large, it appeared twice the size of the city of Quattrero, which he could see lit up 35,000 feet underneath him.
	So Cedo said, I should clarify that a UFO is not necessarily alien.
	It is an unidentified flying object.
	Yes, but what is that big?
	We're used to seeing things that are common to see, but this was not at all common.
	We've heard stories of this nature before, which brings us to UK UAP researcher Gary Heseltine, who this week has launched a brand new website that is going to be right up the street, I think, of people like Captain Sucedo.
	Gary, thank you very much for coming on.
	How are you?
	I'm fine, Howie.
	Thanks for having me as a guest.
	Hey, we haven't talked for a long time.
	So what's going on with you and the International, what is it, Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research, of which you are the vice president?
	Very, very busy.
	You know, we're doing lots of stuff behind the scenes.
	ISA really is recruiting more countries.
	We're looking at another three countries that may join the existing 30 because we think that the UAP subject should be dealt with on a global basis.
	I've been very busy, obviously, promoting my book on registered forest and on human, which you very kindly introduced a long time ago in February when it was released.
	I've been busy working on my police book that I started originally before my Reynolds book, but then got put on hold to do the Reynoldson book.
	And I'm now going back to the Preforce Police Database with my police cases that I'd started to work on.
	So I'm hoping to get that finished this year.
	But one of the things that I've wanted to do for quite a while, but it's really just a question of fitting the time in to my busy schedule, is to, I think we're missing a trick in the UK, and it's well underreported, is that there is still no standardised system of reporting UAP sightings for both military and commercial pilots in the UK.
	When we look at everything that's happened since 2017 in the United States and the congressional hearing that was last year featuring a couple of pilots that were on there, David Favour and Ryan Graves, who gave excellent testimony, I've no doubt that what's happening in the US has been replicated in UK space.
	So it's been a question of trying to figure out how, if I was going to do this, how would I do it?
	I didn't want to go into this alone.
	So I've got three trusted colleagues who were excellent researchers.
	A couple of them have worked in the aviation industry.
	One of them is a private pilot himself with hundreds of hours of flying experience.
	And all excellent researchers who I can trust implicitly, Dave Hodrian from the Birmingham UFO Group, a guy called Chris Gaffney, who's based in Ireland.
	He's an FOI kind of expert.
	He's very much into trying to make an inroads with the EU on the UAP issue.
	And a friend and research colleague who I've known for 15 years or so, Alan Foster, who lives in Wales.
	So we kind of like geographically, we can cover cases.
	But the thing is, because there is just no standardised reporting system and there is no media coverage on this either, and obviously in America, we've seen the whole issue of air safety raised and several near-misses, especially with military pilots.
	I've no doubt those happen in the UK, but the UK unusually have not followed the path of America, our special friend, as it were.
	Historically, we usually follow on what the American Lead is, but since 2017, the UK is conspicuous by its inaction on the UAP issue, despite all these kind of legislations that's been passed in the recent bills over the last two or three years in the United States.
	Absolutely nothing in the UK.
	And nobody is addressing this issue of UAP.
	It's a very serious issue.
	Countries are starting to have congressional hearings.
	Mexico's had one.
	Brazil's had one.
	I spoke at the Brazilian one.
	You know, there's now been a couple in the United States and further things are planned.
	It's now losing the stigma that's, you know, issue for many decades, but that's finally receding.
	We now have changed the terminology.
	And indeed, just to jump in, Gary, in America, they've actually said, haven't they, to military pilots and others involved, you know, please come forward.
	And they've given them a way to do it.
	And we don't really have that here, which brings us to what you're doing.
	Yes, yeah.
	And I've spoken to on a couple of Zoom meetings with Ryan Graves face to face, who is the guy who's created the organization Americans for Safe Aerospace, that's referenced actually in the press release that we put out on Monday.
	So basically, they're now at the stage of at very high level, a couple of, I think it's senators or congressmen have come on board and are putting a bill forward based on this communication with American pilots that have contacted Ryan Graves, who was a pilot himself, military pilot.
	And they're going to look at trying to get this standardised reporting system for civil and military.
	And if they can do it, why can't we?
	In fact, why can't every country have a standardized system?
	And ideally, because it's such an unusual subject that has been so dogged by misinformation, disinformation over many decades.
	In an ideal world, which we don't live in, but in an ideal world, there should be one system standardised for every country in the world.
	A bit like pilots talk in English all the time and the communications are all in English.
	That kind of system should be introduced to cover the reporting of UAP.
	It's a much bigger and more important issue than anybody in the UK has ever given credit for.
	we have to start addressing it so that's what uk pilots reporting uip the new website is all about is is that is Is that the official title of it?
	Yeah, UK Pilots Reporting UAP.
	That's the actual website, ukpilotsreportinguip.co.uk.
	It couldn't be any simpler.
	My email is just Gary Esseltine at the same UKpilotsreportingup.co.uk.
	So we want not just pilots, we want British pilots.
	This is aimed primarily at British pilots, but I'll give us some caveats to that.
	So British pilots reporting UAP in British airspace.
	International pilots reporting UAP whilst transiting to and from in UK airspace.
	So that is another area that can capture international reports.
	And that would indeed include the pilots.
	There was a Virgin plane and I think an American Airlines plane over the west of Ireland that saw something.
	Well, good luck with it, Gary.
	You know, we don't have a ton of time to talk about it.
	Just quickly, has anybody reported anything to you yet?
	Have you had reports in?
	Not reports yet.
	We launched on Friday.
	We're obviously doing a motion drive over the next couple of weeks.
	We've got articles that will come out in the national media within, I think, a week or two.
	We're still putting the information out there.
	We're now contacting aviation groups, aviation industry, that kind of thing.
	That's the next stage.
	So that'll happen in the following week.
	But I have no doubt, like I did with the launch of ProofOce in 2002, police officers reporting in UFOs, or as it was then UFOs, that many pilots, I think a lot initially will be retired pilots, but if you're still a serving pilot, we can offer you confidentiality.
	I've done it with police officers.
	I've never revealed anybody's identity that needed to be covered up for that obvious reason to protect their jobs and careers, pensions, whatever.
	We're going to do exactly the same.
	So they can come forward, even if you're serving.
	We'll not give any details out that will lead to your identification, but we will get your account and we will get the story out and we want transparency.
	And then we can go to Parliament and say, look, you need to start doing something about this.
	Well, it's about time.
	I know they've got other things to think about.
	Gary, thank you very much.
	Good luck with it.
	Keep me posted about it.
	Gary Hesseltine, UK UFO Researcher Vice President of the International Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research.
	Thank you, Gary Hesseltine from ICER.
	He will keep us posted about that and other research that he is doing.
	Last item here is a conversation with a man called Glenn Steckling.
	Now, the Steckling family, as you will hear in this conversation, has been heavily involved in the researches and the archives of a man called George Adamski.
	George Adamski was a remarkable character, and I have to tell you that I'd forgotten about him.
	I think I probably talked about him years ago on the show.
	But he was around in the sort of 1940s, 1950s, when there was a lot of ufological activity in this world.
	And he claimed to have got photographs of strange craft, to have met extraterrestrial beings and even to have gone to their planets.
	And he was taken so seriously that he was invited to Europe, and I believe he went and met and had an audience with Queen Juliana of the Netherlands in the 1950s.
	But he was taken very, very seriously by people.
	And that's why it's important, I think, that his legacy and his research and the debate that he prompted is carried on.
	Glenn Steckling is doing exactly that.
	He is item number three on this edition of The Unexplained.
	This is Glenn Steckling talking about George Adansky.
	I'm going to talk about a man called George Adamski who's been referenced on this show before.
	Who was controversial, yeah.
	And remarkable, too.
	One and the same thing at the same time.
	Glenn Steckling is director and copyright holder of the 60-year-old George Adansky Foundation, one of the oldest enduring UFO organizations, discusses his family extensive history with the UFO field and their association with George Adansky.
	This includes the Steckling family's pioneering lunar anomaly research in the 70s and 80s and its concerns regarding the development agendas of misinformation focused on the revisionism of UFO history and perceptions.
	In other words, I think we're not being told the truth.
	Let's get Glenn Steckling on now.
	Glenn, thank you for doing this.
	How are you?
	Very good, Howard.
	Thank you for having me on your excellent show and for all your listeners to tune in.
	I think you're pretty unique, and there is so much to encapsulate here, Glenn, but let's have a try at doing it.
	I think, first of all, we need to explain who was Georgia Damsky and why was he important?
	And also, I haven't heard of a case like this, your families and your extensive involvement with his archives and his research.
	Talk to me about those things.
	Well, Georgia Damsky was considered one of the early pioneers that came forward with this UFO information already in the 1940s, bits of it already in the late 1930s.
	And he was unique because he had taken telescopic photographs of these crafts and multitude of them, and which he offered to the military and the scientific community and the general public.
	Whoever came by the property, he gave them the information free of charge.
	And he was recognized by the government.
	He accompanied President Eisenhower into the desert to have a contact with one of these craft landing on the tarmac in a military base in 1954.
	He did the same with John Kennedy in 1962.
	And he traveled the world giving lectures in which you received no fee for.
	In those days, as a foreign speaker, you could not come into a foreign country and make money and sell tickets for profit.
	So he did this all on his own time.
	And when he was in the UK, his sponsors were Lord Monbatten, everybody recognizes that name, Lord Dowden, and also Desmond Leslie, Sir Desmond Leslie from the Castle Leslie Estate in Ireland.
	And so his exposure was worldwide, Queen Juliana, Pope John XXIII, and his photographs and motion picture footage of these craft around the world are unparalleled, even in today's UFO community.
	Colonel Freeman at the Pentagon, when my father went there in 1966 by invitation, said these were some of the best films he had ever seen in civilian hands.
	And just not to belabor the point, but just to underline that point, that so many people took an interest in him and his research at the highest level.
	You know, that he was, as you said, he says that he was communing with U.S. presidents, but he was personally invited by Queen Juliana of the Netherlands in, I think, 1952 to go there and brief her, as you said.
	That was in 1959.
	He was also scheduled to see the British royal family as well, but they were apprehensious of the controversy behind it, and so they declined.
	Although everyone knows that Prince Philip was extremely interested in this subject, in fact, Lord Clan County, Lord Clan Cardy, delivered my father's book to Prince Philip after he addressed the Select Committee of the British House of Lords in 1983.
	And so, and also from British history, you know that Mountbatten, Lord Mountbatten, had one of these ships over his property.
	And Lord Dowden came out openly and spoke about as being the chief Lord Air Marshal that he absolutely believed in them and had seen them and knew that they were interplanetary spacecraft.
	So the UK has a long and wide history, of course, in this subject, and so does mainland Europe and Italy.
	All during that time, fleets of ships were seen over London and Paris and Rome for a multitude of days photographed and witnessed.
	So anyone who says that these crafts or these extraterrestrials are hiding from us in order not to scare us doesn't have the total picture for sure, because if they were hiding, they were doing a very bad job of it.
	Two questions in one, Glenn.
	This is fascinating, but two questions in one.
	Why do you think that if these craft were presenting themselves to us earthlings, why did they pick him?
	Why did they go to him?
	And also, why do you think that people at this high level, like Queen Juliana and the British royal family, took him so seriously?
	Why?
	Well, because his photographs were irrefutable.
	I mean, there was no way that you could fake this material.
	A telescopic shot leaves, it has a graying effect as you look through the ocular of the telescope, which causes an off-flowing graying effect of what you are looking at and photographing.
	And so people like Perv Marley and Hollywood, John Ford, the producer, so many people came forward with affidavits that said that this is no way that this stuff could possibly be faked Because the circumference of the craft was at least 35 feet in diameter.
	In fact, your English author Leonard Cramp, who wrote Space Gravity and the Flying Saucer, did the first series of tests on them, orthographic projections, between George's pictures taken in 1952 and the Dobbinshear or Coniston photos that were taken in 1954 of the exact same type of craft.
	And so while many try to belittle George or come up with ridiculous ideas that these were water coolers or chicken feeders and all of this idea, they have all been refuted.
	The problem is, of course, that the accusation is on the front page, and then the retraction is on some back page in the far bottom corner years later.
	But I would say anybody who was serious in this subject, and my father took these films to both NASA, 22 scientists, by invitation, also to Colonel Freeman and the Pentagon, also the British House of Lords through Lord Clancarty.
	So, and many scientific communities, I have done the same thing since, and none of them have taken them lightheartedly or skeptically.
	They knew exactly what they were.
	In fact, these scientists knew where they were, what they came from, and how the electromagnetic propulsion works.
	Interesting.
	I don't think we've got to the bottom yet, and let's just spend a couple of minutes doing this, explaining who this man was, though.
	You know, I asked you, why was he singled out in this way?
	How come he was the focus and apex of all this?
	But he must have been special in some ways in order to be at the center of this vortex.
	Yes, that's true.
	There are a couple of reasons that.
	He got his first telescope in 1938, and the person who gave it to it, her son, was a professor, Joseph Johnson, at Caltech, and he was responsible for the mapping of the Mount Palomar 200-inch telescope, finding the location geographically and the star location for the building of that.
	And so when George was already starting to take photographs of the night sky and objects in it, Professor Johnson came to him and said, hey, move to the bottom of Mount Palomar.
	There's a lot of activity.
	The observatory is going to go up, and we're going to get a lot of information.
	In fact, some of the pictures that were released in Europe only, and I can make available to you, I've already sent you some uploads.
	These pictures were taken in October of 1949 for a period of one week by the astronomical staff of fleets of both UFOs and individual UFOs flying around the observatory.
	These were all collected by Project Blue Book and kept secret until about two years ago.
	And also the reports by George Adovsky of cigar-shaped craft.
	Was George unique?
	I would say yes.
	He was both unique, and he happened to be the right person in the right place at the right time.
	And all of those measured up together in order to produce a furtherance of the information officially and publicly, and also to support the truth of it, because we were coming into the space age during those days.
	A lot of people, of course, to this day don't buy it.
	A lot of people accuse Dansky of being a hoax at Par X-Along.
	Are there any photographs?
	You said that he had meetings with two American presidents.
	Are there photographs of those meetings?
	Oh, of course not.
	When the president comes and flies across country in order to meet with somebody and go secretly in order to have an activity of something like that, they're not writing it down in the logbook and taking publicity pictures at the front gate of the military base to say, oh, look.
	I mean, come on, that's not even logical.
	But as far as the White House access card George had in his wallet, many people saw that.
	And he had access to the Kennedy administration and used it on several times to bring them very pertinent information.
	And I would say that due to the information that he passed on along to certain administrations, that it helped us to step away from nuclear confrontation.
	Just like astronaut Edgar Mitchell said, I believe it was Apollo 15, a couple of years ago, he said he knows of two accounts where the space visitors helped us walk away from nuclear war.
	So anybody who wants to criticize George, I can only say he put up $5,000 reward for anyone who could disprove those pictures.
	Now remember, 1952, you could buy a new car for about $1,500.
	So $5,000 was an incredible amount of money.
	And nobody, no takers, no successful attempts.
	The pictures themselves have gone through every decade of analysis.
	Orthographic projection with cramp.
	Biometric radiation next, which shows that there's a light magnetic and radiation field surrounding the craft.
	That's impossible to do with a model.
	Then they have had pictures that were pixel analysis recently.
	There's a book called The Georgia Damsky Story by Renee Oltson there in Denmark, a good friend of mine I work with to help produce my YouTube videos on the channel.
	And he went through and pixelized from the original negatives in films and examined these pictures.
	And the results are astounding.
	There's absolutely no one who can prove them false.
	And there's an old saying that the Admiral used in the Pentagon recently, put up or shut up.
	Back to Blen Steckling in the U.S. We're talking about George Adamski, a most remarkable man in a most remarkable era.
	George, talk to me about your family.
	And we are talking about a lineage here, your family's involvement with him.
	Yes, I just recently released a New book that took years to compose.
	It's called The UFO Reality: Can Truth Prevail?
	And the first half of the book composes the entire situation of how we became involved and how we met George Damsky.
	A long story short, my parents had seen many of these craft during the war.
	And as you recall, the flying saucer fleets flew over Europe, London in 1954, Paris in 1954, over the Vatican and Rome for a week in 1954.
	So it was worldwide news.
	And so we tracked that.
	When we came to the United States over downtown Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, we witnessed one of these bell-shaped craft maneuvering above us about 1,200 feet.
	30 other witnesses, plus a newspaper reporter for the Washington Daily News, reported it and put it in the newspaper the next day.
	My father, who had seen a number of these craft, said, I'm going to the Library of Congress, starting alphabetically, A. Adamski, there's the books, Flying Saucers Have Landed with Lord Desmond Leslie as a co-author, and then Flying Saucers Have Landed.
	And inside were exactly the same photographs that we had seen these ships of before.
	My father wrote to Adamski three months later.
	He was coming to the U.S. Capitol to lecture to the Air Force Reserves.
	We met him, became close friends, contacts, and co-workers of him.
	He introduced us to some of his space contacts, which we carried on those introductions for a number of years thereafter.
	And of course, once again, the most in picture films taken around the world of these craft maneuvering, doing 90 degree stops and starts and maneuvers far exceeding anything that our conventional aircraft and aerodynamics can even conceive.
	Sorry for that.
	But I think it's important that we clarify this.
	How do those pictures compare with what we are seeing today?
	If you think about the Tic Tech fighting, the USS limits, if you think about the things that people are reporting every day, how do they tie in with the stuff that we are seeing in our newspaper today?
	About 65% of what we see today is Terran manufactured, or in other words, research and development by multiple government and intelligence communities.
	Anything that's triangular, acorn, square, diamond-shaped, that has appendages to it, long landing gear, these type of shapes, this is all our own manifestations because the electromagnetic free energy propulsion system requires a ship that is allowing the energy to flow along the ship and through the skin.
	Very much like in our SR-71, it leaks fuel until it gets up into higher altitudes and where the temperature changes enough in order to seal those leaks.
	So porous skin is something we are familiar with as well.
	And so these craft, about 65% of them, drones and UAVs and all these others, is ours.
	And a certain amount of it is misidentification weather-wise, standing lenticular clouds above mountain ridges that look like they're lenticular.
	This has nature to do with it and severe turbulence.
	After being a pilot for 45 years, I know these phenomena well, ball lightning, horizontal, and vertical.
	So there's a great difference.
	So there's 15%, I would say, of actual UFO extraterrestrial craft.
	This also coincides with NICAP's findings, the 12,000 they submitted to the government in the 1960s.
	And then, of course, the other studies as well, the military studies by Captain Rupold and Colonel Freeman and all these other people as well.
	And so I would say that the Tic-Tac is ours, although the military, the 2006 photographs from the fighters, that certainly looks genuine.
	But look at what a farce this so-called carrot, this bait of disclosure is.
	That film was in 2006.
	We're almost 20 years later, and they still haven't said anything of anything value about it.
	The government will continue to keep the disclosure secretly.
	And anybody that they vet, anybody that they agree with, and that's all military personnel, whether it's the Ministry of Defense or any Pentagon or anywhere else in any country, when you join these organizations, you sign the secrecy documents for life.
	And there are no ways out of it.
	And they vet everything that you say.
	You cannot release information unless they predetermine, scan it, and authorize it.
	So you're saying, Gwen, that we are never going to get disclosure.
	And I'm sorry that we've got this instance of the digital delay between the United States and the telephone line and me, so it makes it sound like I'm interrupting, which I am to an extent.
	But you're saying that we're never going to get disclosure of the kind that a damnity would have liked.
	No truthful disclosure.
	Absolutely not, because that would change the fabric of our society.
	The very simple idea of free energy, electromagnetic propulsion, which is generated by the planet itself, that can energize every appliance, airplane, car, all our energy needs.
	We don't want that.
	We want to micromanage the affairs on this world, whether it's political, militarily, or economically.
	So the only way we will get bits and pieces is that if the military tries to make it aggressive or harmful, if they can convince people that somebody's coming here to do them harm or to do horrific things to them, then we will unify as one, as a military configuration, and all the money will go spent for that.
	And the status quo of our economies will remain the same.
	No one, no one traveling hundreds of thousands of millions of miles through space or light years And 4,000 years higher technology.
	None of them come here to take your chickens, steal your cows, or cause alien abductions.
	There may be abductions, but they certainly are not alien.
	And I've put in that in my book.
	Your father thought that this was very important, got involved with it, knew Adamski.
	You are continuing with that tradition.
	You're curating his material, his archives.
	What do you think should be happening now then about this material?
	Because it doesn't seem to me that we have a modern-day equivalent of Adamsky.
	Well, no, we don't.
	What we have is we have, unfortunately, and this is one of the reasons that I wrote this new book, is that the second half of that book is called Reality Check, and it has numerous chapters addressing the current sorry state of the UFO community and what type of poisonous material is being perpetrated upon the public in order to keep them fearful and imbalanced.
	And so I work tenaciously against that.
	And I don't know how many of the others.
	I know Dr. Stanton Friedman, the late Dr. Stanton Friedman was also desirous of that kind of revelation.
	And it never ends.
	It never ends in this UFO field, the attempt to scare or horrify people with Halloween-type creatures.
	I don't think everybody involved in ufology is trying to do that, but I hear what you say.
	Damsky himself claimed to have met Nordic-style aliens, and I think, according to some accounts, he claimed to have traveled to other planets, didn't he?
	Well, the Nordic description has been perpetrated by those who wished to push the Nazi agenda of these type of replicant crafts onto the UFO scene in order to make people believe that these aren't extraterrestrial crafts that came from the Nazis.
	Well, they didn't do their research too well because there's pictures over Europe of these same type of craft already back to 1918.
	And as we all know, as historians, the National Socialist Party didn't come into power until 1933, and Penamunda didn't become operational until 1939.
	And their replicants didn't even come out until 1941.
	And they did not maneuver.
	They could not fly at the speeds.
	They were highly unstable.
	This, too, I mentioned in the book, in order to give a good review of that.
	And Timothy Goode, who is a UK author, and I'm sure well known by many of you, he's also sustained the same attitude.
	And I've known Tim since the 1960s.
	Okay, well, without going too deeply into that issue, Adamski, didn't he claim to have met aliens?
	Yes, of course.
	November of 1952, if you go onto my YouTube channel, you will see that we just recently released a video revisiting Desert Center, which is in the California desert.
	And in December, pardon me, November 20th, 1952, he was out there with six other witnesses, and they saw a cigar-shaped craft and many small scouts flying around.
	More importantly, there were military aircraft flying around, and they reported that to Project Blue Book, and those reports are available as well that they witnessed UFOs in that area.
	The craft landed.
	He had an exchange with the person who came out.
	That person was not Nordic any more than you and I are Nordic.
	That person happened to have light hair or blonde hair, but his skin was olive colored like Mediterranean, and he had green eyes.
	And so it never fails to amaze me how the unsubstantiated opinions are just thrown out there for people to make assumptions about something that is completely not true.
	He discussed many other types of colors of people and colors of hairs and eyes and women as well.
	And yes, he was taken on a flight later on and flown around the moon, and he described the moon.
	He described the water, the light atmosphere, the clouds, the mist, all the things the Apollo astronauts also revealed.
	And that is in our first book, We Discovered Alien Bases on the Moon 2, in which we did in the 1970s due to my father's contacts with the scientists at NASA, came available to first-generation copies from the Lunar Orbiter and Apollo missions.
	And the book contains over 100 photographs.
	And it shows conclusively that the gravity of the moon is greater.
	And all these other manifestations are there exactly as George described in 1955.
	George described the firefly effect in space, which was not described until 1963 by astronaut John Glenn.
	So once again, the information that this man imparted was beyond reproach.
	Right.
	I'm aware of the firefly thing, and I think there are videos on YouTube about this, but this was the glowing effect in space that we wouldn't have known about until John Glenn.
	But you're saying that Adamski knew about this before that was public knowledge.
	Last question, then, and I'm sorry this has been a short introduction, Ben, but I'm glad we've had this conversation.
	Just in a couple of minutes, if you could.
	What did Adamski believe the aliens wanted of us?
	They have been coming for thousands and tens of thousands of years.
	There is not a single ancient record from any civilization that does not talk to them.
	The Tibetan kings, the first Tibetan kings, the seven of them, were said to be able to travel back and forth into space at will.
	You have the Polynesians, the Mexicans with Quetzaquato, the Incas, the Mayans, the Egyptians.
	Every single society of our ancient world has had interactions with these space people.
	Always benevolent, always of bringing a betterment of understanding, peaceful life, increase in agriculture and science to help us along.
	And that was what George was, shall we say, chartered to do by his space connections to continue that information to the military, the government, and the church.
	And Pope John XXIII, two weeks before he died, when George delivered a sales message from the space people to the Vatican, the Pope awarded him the gold medal of honor, which I have in the vault.
	Okay.
	And very quickly, are the aliens as described by Adamski still coming here?
	Yes, yes.
	In fact, one of the scientists on the panel my father talked to, the scientist asked my father, how many human aliens are amongst us now?
	My father wrote down a number.
	The scientist wrote down his number.
	They changed papers, and they basically have the same number.
	These are human beings, people like you and I, and any exobiologist or biological chemist, astrochemist, like Cyril Padampura, The Origins of Life, will tell you that that is the case.
	There are no monster creature features.
	And my thanks to Glenn Steckling, Gary Hesseltime from ICER before that, and before that, The World of Dreams, analyzed by Jason DeBoard, aka JM Debord.
	Check him out online.
	Very interesting person.
	Thank you very much for being part of The Unexplained.
	Don't forget, if you have an idea for a guest on this show, I think I've said so many times before that the thing that I find the hardest is not doing the interviews, but it's actually booking the guests, all the admin.
	I'm really bad at that.
	So if you have an idea for somebody who perhaps you know who would be good and is somebody who wouldn't be the kind of person who would get me banned from the internet or sacked from the radio show, and sometimes those suggestions get made, but if it's somebody interesting, somebody good, and somebody that I can talk with, then by all means, please suggest them.
	Go to the website, theunexplained.tv, follow the link, and you can send me an email from there.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of The Unexplained Online.
	So until we meet again, the sun is still shining in through here, which is good news.
	Please stay safe.
	Please stay calm.
	And above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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