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Feb. 24, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:10:09
Edition 795 - Karin Wilkinson
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for your involvement with my show, for being here and for being there for the last 18 years of this show.
As I record these words, it is a crisp, cold and bright day.
We had a ton of rain yesterday and rain the day before, but things seem to be changing.
Okay, so it's cold today, but clear, and the weather forecast for London that I looked at just before I started recording this tells me that the forecasters believe it's the last week of winter.
Let's see if that actually happens.
Thank you very much for your emails and communications.
I see and read everything that comes in.
You can email me through the website, theunexplained.tv.
If you have made a donation to the show to allow this to continue, these are tough times and it is difficult to make this happen, to make anything happen these days.
So if you can, that's great.
If you can't, I understand.
And if you have, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
You know who you are.
Thank you very much to Adam, my webmaster, for his ongoing work on this show.
Now, the guest on this show is somebody who will be controversial.
I don't think all of you will believe what she has to say.
Some of you will say, I don't buy it.
Some of you may have been through it.
And some of you will be, as I am, intrigued by Karen Wilkinson's story.
And you have to make your own decision about what you hear.
That's always been the case with the unexplained.
However, this conversation I have to say to you, listener discretion advised.
So I don't think this is a podcast for the kids.
I don't think they should be hearing some of the detail in this.
If you are squeamish about detail, if you don't like this kind of thing, if it's a worry to you, please turn off now.
So I'm saying it very clearly.
There are some details in the conversation that will follow that require me to say listener discretion advised.
Who is Karen Wilkinson?
Well, she's the author of Stolen Seed Evil Harvest, a regular contributor and writer at Elie Mazzuli's monthly newsletter.
We know that we've had Elie Mazzouli on this show before.
Karen is a wife, mother, grandmother living in Texas.
She worked a regular job in the software industry for years and left it to raise her family.
She is a serial abductee.
In other words, she says that she has had disturbing connection with aliens, presences, her whole life.
And you will hear that story here.
And I have to tell you, if you believed that E.T. was a soft and cuddly thing, as depicted in movies and cartoons, that ain't always the case, as you are about to hear.
You have to make your own judgments about what you hear.
I think it's a fascinating story.
But with the caveat that listener discretion advised, I'm not going to say any more now.
So let's get to Texas.
Karen Wilkinson is there.
And Karen Wilkinson, thank you very much for coming on my show.
How are you?
Oh, thank you so much, Howard.
I am very well today, and I am just so pleased to be here with you.
Thank you so much.
Well, I understand that you are married to a Brit.
I am.
I am happily married to a Brit, yes.
Okay.
And so you persuaded him to go to Austin.
I did.
I think it was the weather that brought him here with me.
But I would happily be there if he wanted to go back to England.
So, you know, it's my second home and I absolutely adore England and every part of it is wonderful.
Now, Karen, the one thing that struck me about you above all others is that you strike me as being a very balanced individual.
I normally do not do a lot of reading about the person that I'm going to speak about.
I do enough research to be knowledgeable about the subject.
I don't want to know too much because then I won't ask, you know, what may be the right questions.
And I tend not to listen to or watch other people's podcasts.
And I broke my rule with you.
I saw a few minutes of one interview that you did.
And the thing that came across more clearly than anything else about you is that you just seem to be a solid, ordinary person who's been through, from what you say, some truly extraordinary things.
Yes.
Well, thank you for that.
Yes, it has been, there have been some truly extraordinary things, and it has taken me a long time to be able to process all of it and get to a point where I could talk about it.
But as my life has gone along, I've worked very hard just to have a normal life for myself, for my children.
And what I have found out along this journey is that I'm not unusual.
There are many, many, many other people just like me with similar experiences, with similar life stories, who you wouldn't pick them out of a crowd.
We're just your neighbor, your friend, the person you work with, the person you know from the school, what have you.
Do you gain comfort, do you gather comfort, from knowing that you are not alone?
Absolutely, I do.
And that's why I encourage my watchers and listeners and readers to reach out to me if they want to through my website.
Because I found after Elie Marzuli introduced me to the other members of his fourth movie that I was in on the UFO abductions, that I suddenly had a sense of peace and camaraderie and fellowship, knowing that I have friends who've been through the similar or same experiences that I have.
And I didn't feel alone.
I felt okay, a little bit normal almost.
The few minutes of this podcast that I watched, and I stopped it at the point where you said that you were not going through and you had been accused of psychotic delusion.
And I was completely on your side at that point because the sincerity in your eyes, and I'm not a great one for video, I'm not a video guy, not really.
I did 18 months of this show on television.
I vastly prefer Being in sound because I think it's more expressive.
But I looked at your eyes and you looked absolutely sincere about that.
And you basically said as the reply, if I was to truncate it, for those who say what I've been through is psychotic delusion, try living my life and the life of people who've been through this.
Yes, exactly.
Well, thank you for that and for your kind words.
Yeah, it's a very difficult journey and a very difficult path, but, you know, we have to make a choice.
Do we want to be able to live and live as normal a life as possible or give in to the pain and give into the tragedy?
And there are so many other people who've dealt with so many other different types of tragic events in their lives and horrific events in their lives, and they managed to find the strength to go on.
And I have been blessed with being given the strength to go on as well.
And, you know, I have nothing to gain by sharing this story.
The reason I share it is because I feel it needs to be shared because it's such a common occurrence, but everyone acts like it's this strange, unique thing that has never happened to anyone else.
And that's just not true.
And I think you're going to be here to tell us that, as I assumed over many years from hearing many, many stories, that actually your impression of ETs and aliens or whatever they might be is garnered mainly from old TV shows that turn it into a comedy.
When I was a kid, there was a thing on TV called My Favorite Martian.
That's going, but please don't ask me how long ago that is because that's an awful long time ago.
And E.T., please phone home.
I've got a little model ET right in front of me at the moment as I'm recording this.
You're here to tell people who think that that is what ETs are and that's what they do and that's how they comport themselves.
They're wrong.
Absolutely.
That is correct.
That is not a true visualization.
It's not a true actualization of who and what they are.
And the public perception that they're some friendly little green entities that all come out of a ship and they all look the same and they're just here to help, that's not true at all.
This goes back a long way with you as many of the people that I've spoken to over the decades I've been doing this have told me and informed me that your experiences began in childhood and these are not experiences that you later related, perhaps by reading things and being encouraged to remember, or were brought out of you by somebody putting you in a hypnosis chair or something like that.
This is stuff that you carried with you for all of your life.
Absolutely.
Yes, that is correct.
They are memories that I've always had.
And there are some memories that are fuzzy and they are not clear.
And some memories are extremely clear.
But they've been with me my whole life.
I haven't had any type of regression or hypnosis therapy or anything like that.
They're just the memories that I have.
And I have also since found out that I'm not unusual in that either.
There are many, many people who remember these types of things happening to them throughout their lives.
We've just been conditioned not to speak about it.
Before I ask you, what happened when you were a kid?
Were you a happy child?
Generally, yes.
I was a little withdrawn, quiet, shy, and reserved due to the things that I've been through.
But other than that, you know, it was a mostly normal childhood, if you can call it that.
All right.
The reason that I'm asking you that, I think you probably worked that out anyway.
The reason that I'm asking it is that in some cases that have been documented, and some people have made assumptions that maybe they shouldn't have been making, kids have had a not nice childhood.
They've had difficult times at school.
Maybe they've not had the best of parents or they've had difficulties at home, broken families, all those sorts of things.
And their experiences of life are what generated what they think were alien experiences.
But you're doing it the other way around.
You are saying that the alien experiences generated any difficulties that you may have had.
Absolutely.
I didn't come from a broken home.
I grew up in a middle-class, normal American household in a normal neighborhood with normal schools and friends and things going on.
It wasn't anything unusual.
I was very blessed in many ways.
And it wasn't perfect, but no one's life is.
But it certainly wasn't tragic.
What happened and how did it start?
Well, my earliest memories are of being taken by these entities.
I have memories when I was very small of being afraid of my father's family because they had this similar look to them as some of the entities that I was encountering as a very, very tiny child.
My father's family was tall and blonde with big blue eyes and they were thin and they looked like what I later learned are called these Nordic entities.
People refer to them as a Nordic entity.
They are non-human alien entities.
They have very large eyes.
They look almost human.
They're similar to us, but not.
And they weren't nice to me as a little tiny child.
I was terrified.
And so anytime I saw anyone with similar features to that, I was just terrified.
And they couldn't understand at two or three years old why I was just terrified of certain people.
And then as my memory solidified around kind of five or six years old, that's when I have the memories of the actual abduction experiences.
And what were they like?
So a typical night for me around that age would be I would look for someplace to hide before I went to bed.
And I remember my sister and I talking about it one night.
And these are two little kids, kind of five and eight years old, talking.
And she's like, you can't hide.
You know, they can see us through the house.
And I'm not little kids have conversations like that.
You know, it was, you know, but I would, but there was nowhere to hide.
They always found me.
Typically, I would wake up at night and feel a change in the room, just feel a presence, an evil presence, a scary presence.
If we were in the countryside, the crickets and cicadas would get Quiet and just stop.
And sometimes there would be a light coming through a window, either my window or maybe a window down the hall that would just shine through.
If I was in the room with someone else, like sharing a room with a sibling, that sibling would be just in a sleep state where I could not rouse them.
No one in the house ever woke up when these things happened.
Everyone was in this just really hard sleep state, as if they were put into a state of deep sleep.
I would get scared.
Sometimes I would whip the bed because I knew it was coming.
And in my room would appear at least two, sometimes more, of what people refer to as a typical gray alien entity.
They were about three feet tall, you know, size of a child.
They had big bulbous heads, black screen-looking eyes.
Their eyes didn't move.
It looked like just a screen, a lens, almost.
And kind of shiny, like a shiny lens.
They didn't move.
It was just stationary.
And they had just like a slit for a mouth that I never saw open.
They were very thin, scrawny, frail looking.
Some of them smelled putrid.
Some of them had a smell of sort of a sulfur, rotting flesh, urine, feces almost.
Some smelled worse than others.
And there was just a feeling when they entered the room that I cannot explain, but to this day, if something like that is around, I feel it.
And it's a feeling that is unlike anything else I ever have experienced.
From that point, I would be put into what I call waking paralysis, where as soon as I noticed them, I would be unable to move my body.
But I was still awake, very awake, very aware, senses I could see and smell and hear what was going on.
I would get levitated up off the bed, if I was in the bed or on the couch or wherever I was that night.
And I would be taken up through a ceiling or out a closed window.
And I know that sounds crazy, but when they would take me, there was this kind of low hum that was like a deep bass, almost like holding onto a speaker, but without noise of a speaker.
And I would just feel my body start to just vibrate almost and felt like I went into just a million bazillion pieces.
And I'd get right up to, like, say, a ceiling, and I could see every little detail on the ceiling, whether it was the lines in the wallpaper on the ceiling at my grandma's house, and some of the edges were brown and curled, or whether it was the bugs in the square light fixture, or on a screen in a window, how the little squares weren't even and some were broken and things that were just crazy little details that stick in my head.
Did you try to scream or call out?
Absolutely.
I did.
And initially, you know, like I said, the people in the house would just be in a sleep state where I could not rouse anyone.
And then at that point, once they put me into a waking paralysis, I could no longer scream.
I couldn't do anything.
I might have tears rolling down my face, but I couldn't even cry, you know, with noise.
It was terrifying.
And to be restrained like that was absolutely terrifying as a little kid.
You know, and there's no one saying, hey, this is what's going on.
Don't worry, don't be scared.
Oh, no.
I was totally at their will, and I had no choice.
And that was terrifying.
Did you tell your parents?
Presumably you did.
Did you tell your school teachers?
The reason I ask that question is if somebody reported that in this country, even going back 20, 30 years, I think they probably would have involved experts.
They would have tried to get to the bottom of why this was being experienced by you.
You might have seen the school psychiatrist.
Did any of that happen?
Absolutely.
That's a great question.
I did try to tell anyone who would listen.
The thing, and this is in the 60s and 70s when I was little, the problem with it was I didn't have vocabulary for who and what these things were.
I didn't have, you know, I wasn't watching any alien shows.
There weren't any podcasts or books or movies for me to reference what was happening as such a small child.
I called in the little ones, the ones who came to get me.
They keep bothering me.
They're touching me.
They're taking me.
And, you know, as parents, and I would go and, after I would come back from, be returned from one of these abduction incidents, I would go and sleep under my parents' bed or at the foot of their bed or anywhere I felt like I could maybe get a little safety.
And I would tell them those things that, you know, they keep coming to get me and they just thought it was bad dreams.
You know, I might wake up in another room.
My pajamas would be in another room or inside out or, you know, it just, you know, so many things that were odd and unusual.
But they didn't have a frame of reference for what was happening to me to even put those pieces together.
And I talked about it at school as well and tried to talk to kids about it, you know, but again, without the proper vocabulary, it just sounded like I was making things up.
And as I was trying to talk about it, these entities warned me not to talk about this anymore.
And they, one night when I was taken, they walked me out into the backyard of my grandparents' house.
And there's a clothesline going down the middle of the backyard.
And I remember just how, you know, cold and prickly the grass was under my feet and how cold I was that night standing out there.
And they showed me, and we call this a screen memory because they showed me something that wasn't real but looked very real.
It was like today we have virtual reality like VR goggles that you could wear that make something look so real.
Well, that's what they were doing then, but we didn't have that back then.
So how do you describe that to someone when you don't have the technology to even understand It.
They showed me my family being walked out into the backyard on the other side of that clothesline.
They sprayed something on the backs of their necks and they said, Be good.
Don't talk about this.
Don't cross the line.
And they showed me my family being beheaded in front of me.
And I was just a little kid.
I was like six years old.
And you're sure that that wasn't a, I mean, that's, I don't know how a kid could have a nightmare like that.
Are you sure that that was not some kind of dreadful nightmare?
I'm positive because I felt physically, I knew I was there.
You know, physically, I felt the grass under my feet.
I knew I was there.
This wasn't something new being with these entities.
And there's no way at that age that I would have seen or been able to make something like that up or, you know, conjure that into a dream.
It was so real.
It was so real.
And did you ask the question that even a little kid would ask?
I'm sorry for just jumping in, but it's important we get this thing.
You know, even a little kid, I remember what I was like when I was eight, nine, 10, whatever.
I'd have said, why are you doing this to me?
Yes, I was only six years old.
And I'm like, exactly.
You know, why are you doing this?
And that you're special.
They kept telling me, you're special.
We need you.
You're special.
And I, at that point, came to a realization that I was trapped.
No one understood what I was talking about.
I was still trying to talk to teachers, the nurse, my parents, friends.
And now I'm being warned against it.
And I felt as if there was no rescue for me.
There was no one who was going to help me.
And I had a breakdown at six years old in school.
This is when I really had just a break from it.
And I really disassociated from what was happening with these entities and my life.
And I just split those things in two.
They found me huddled in the corner of a bathroom stall, holding onto my knees, just rocking.
I wouldn't get up.
I wouldn't talk to anyone.
I wouldn't move.
So they had to call my mom to come and get me.
And she coaxed me out of the bathroom.
And I just kept saying, I just don't want them to take me.
I just don't want them to touch me.
I just don't want them to take me.
I kept, you know, repeating.
And just she took me to the doctor because she's like, okay, well, if someone's touching you, I'm going to take you to the doctor and make sure you haven't been hurt or abused.
And you have to remember back then, you know, abuse situations weren't handled the way they are today.
And they noticed some bruising and some odd marks on my body, but nothing that caused them a great deal of alarm.
But I do remember what the doctor said.
He said to her, she's young.
She'll be fine.
She'll forget.
Whatever has happened to her, she will forget.
She's young.
And they didn't think at that point of, they would today, of calling the police.
Yeah, no, not at all.
No, not then.
No.
Have you ever, in the years that followed, have you ever asked anybody that had authority over you, the school, whatever, why didn't you get a further investigation of this?
You know, no, I didn't go back to that school.
Obviously, you know, that was a long time ago because I wasn't even able to talk about this with anyone until several years ago when I went through some PTSD therapy that allowed me to be able to handle these memories in a safe place in my own head, in my own heart.
Because before that, it's too difficult to speak of, to think about, to even try to work through.
So there's a lot of denial on my part of what had happened.
And I did ask my mom about the, you know, later in life about the doctor visit.
And she felt really bad about that.
She felt very bad about that.
But she didn't know.
She said, you know, I had no idea.
I didn't know.
And she thought she was doing the right thing as a parent.
What the doctor said to you, I didn't stop you at that point, but it almost sounded to me like, I mean, this is, I don't think this is possible, but like that old TV show, The Invaders, which maybe you never saw, where there were lots of human people who were involved and in on the thing.
What the doctor said to you sounded strange.
If you recounted it as he said it, it didn't sound right.
No, it doesn't sound right, but I think it was just that doctor wasn't that concerned.
I think you might find doctors today that might say something like that just to not get involved.
So everywhere you turn then, Karen, you're not getting the recognition of this thing that's happening to you that you deserve.
Now, that's a real hard thing to take.
It was.
It was very hard.
That's why I had my breakdown.
That's why I just had to dissociate it.
I had to just pretend that it wasn't happening and just let it go.
And it's kind of a form of personal salvation, you know, where if I didn't, I don't think I would have been able to live any semblance of a normal life at that point.
Okay, before I ask you any more questions, can I just ask you, I think you're tapping the table or bumping it slightly.
It's giving us a little, tiny little bit of knocking noise.
Just for the benefit of my listener.
Now, I'm like that too.
You know, when I'm declaiming and making a point, you know, I forget everything else.
So that's fine.
Okay.
Now, to take this forward, I think we have to go into a little bit of these childhood experiences and what happened to you as far as you can recount.
You said that you had some bruises by the accounts that we have today.
If we read accounts of people having abductions, some of them, but the ones that I know of, are adults, but they talk of things that sound like their experiments or sample taking or whatever.
It is horrendous.
It is horrible.
But are those the things that you can recall or can you recall nothing of that?
Yes, I can recall some of that.
There are times I would wake up on a steel table.
It seemed like steel, you know, and it was cold.
And they would be taking, there were needles.
Sometimes there was a needle I remember that went into my neck and one that went into my chest once.
And I remember going to school, that was when I was still trying to talk to kids about it, saying, They put a big needle in my chest.
And everyone's, you know, that didn't happen, you know.
Did you have a mark there?
No, not that I know of, but I do have other marks.
And I still have a, after one particular incident, there was a triangle-shaped, what felt like a burn on my back, but it never scabbed over like a burn.
It's never looked like a burn.
It's still there.
It's quite large.
And I put a picture of it in my book for the readers to see so that they could see that I wasn't, you know, making that up, you know, that that's real.
And it burned for a long, long time.
It doesn't really anymore.
I can still feel where it is.
But that was a very visible mark.
I don't know what they did there that night.
I don't remember getting it, but I remember when they dropped me off, my back just burning.
And I did tell my parents that morning, and they, it's so weird.
There's this thing called UFO brain fog that people get when these entities are around.
And the excuse for it was, you must have leaned up against a toaster.
And I'll never forget that because I'm thinking, and we had a toaster sitting down low.
And I'm like, how would I lean up against a toaster?
But I just, at that point, I had just been so resigned to it that I'm like, okay, fine, you know.
But you're saying that this went on for a period of years.
And here I am interrupting again, but again, it's important to just insert this.
You're saying that this went on for a period of years and the people closest to you were just trying to say, well, we don't really understand what's going on with you or trying to rationalize it by saying, well, you must have touched the toaster.
Right, exactly.
I think there's a lot of cognitive dissonance that goes on where it's too weird for anyone to accept.
Plus, remember, I didn't really have good vocabulary to explain what was happening.
I couldn't say the gray aliens or, you know, any underground facilities or things like that because I didn't have that vocabulary to use.
Underground facilities.
Yes.
So when I was taken, quite often I would wake up from when after they put me through a window or out through a ceiling.
At that point I would usually go into a sleep state, maybe passing out.
I'm not sure how that worked.
No one ever explained that to me.
But I would wake up standing at a bank with others at banks of elevators.
And they would put me in an elevator, and still the gray entities at this point.
And it would just go down and down and down.
And then I would get on what I called the sideways elevators.
And they would go side to side or diagonally up, diagonally down.
And they had benches in them.
And I called them elevators because they were silent.
And at the time, modes of transportation, whether it was a car or a bus or a train or what have you, in my life in the 60s and 70s, they were loud.
And this was silent.
So I thought of it as another elevator that just went side to side.
Realizing now it, you know, obviously there's some other type of mode of transportation.
It was cold.
I remember the seats were some kind of leather or vinyl with the stitching in them because I remember I'd dig my fingers into the stitching and just things like that.
Little snippets of memories of things that are very strange that I remember.
Okay, so there were elements of this that were almost like regular.
Those seats that you described, you could find those in a movie theater, I guess.
But it wasn't all kind of woo-woo and alien style and out there.
I'm asking this for a reason because you talked about underground facilities.
And I think we know that governments and various other organizations have these.
They do, yes.
And, you know, I never didn't realize that until much, much later in life, that people were being made aware sort of of these things.
But when I was there, it wasn't just all these different types of non-human entities that were with me.
There were humans there, too, working alongside these entities.
And then there were other abductees.
And we were all kind of in this foggy brain kind of capacity.
So we weren't making, you know, we weren't thinking clearly.
I wasn't thinking clearly.
You know, they have this effect, and people call it UFO brain fog, where you don't necessarily make the clear, rational, smart decisions you would make in everyday life, where you might say, I'm going to go talk to that person.
No, instead, you're just, you're blindly, I would just blindly be going along with whatever I was there for them to do to me at that point in time.
You said there were humans there.
If I was a kid and I saw people that looked like me, you know, two legs, two eyes, hair and all the rest of it, I would ask them first, what's all this about?
Even if I was a bit foggy and a bit, for want of a better word, drugged feeling, I would ask the people who were there, what's this all about?
Did you do that?
Well, no, I wasn't able to because they weren't in a place where I could ask them.
They weren't standing next to me or they weren't working on me.
And I was under the control at that time when I would see them of a different type of alien entity, like maybe one of the bigger grays or someone else who was, you know, another entity that was doing whatever they were doing to me that time, whatever kind of, you know, medical or experiments or what have you.
You know, of course, they didn't explain to me all the little things they were doing.
But these people were never like standing right there where I could look at them even in a foggy state and say, hey, help me.
And these people were also, and I've later on, I had some incidents where I heard these people, the people working there, not necessarily the same ones every time, but in general, the humans, being told not to talk, don't talk to the other, you know, to those of us who were being there, not to talk about what they'd seen.
And they utilized us in ways to say, you don't want this to happen To your friends, your family, your loved ones, your daughter, your wife, etc.
So, this was threatening.
They were threatening you.
They were threatening the people that worked there.
All right.
But did you feel threatened by this?
I have to tell you, whatever age I was or had been, I would have felt threatened whether I was six or sixty.
Of course.
I mean, they had shown me my family being beheaded.
And as a little kid, I did not want to risk being the reason that someone I loved was hurt in any way.
And, you know, I think that's a common way of when children are trafficked in any form of gaining the control over that child.
Because the innocence and the innocent love of a child for a family member, that will stop a child from talking.
I'm saying this respectfully, but hearing this story and the detail that you're giving me of what happened to you as a kid, I can't really understand how you didn't, and I'm glad that you didn't, but you didn't end up with serious psychological issues.
No, I went through a lot of different types of therapy and counseling, and I do, I have had and do have a lot of serious psychological issues from it, trust me.
You know, it's easy to look at someone and say, well, you look like you're just fine.
You look like you're doing all right, but it's not easy.
I cry a lot.
I have to deal with this over and over again.
Obviously, I'm getting more used to talking about it with people because I think it's important to share the truth about this.
But psychologically, I mean, the number of times that I've not wanted to be here on this earth anymore is shattering.
And it is only by the grace of God, and it is only my faith, that I am still here and that I have been able to even walk through this slightly.
Was this also happening to your sister?
You referenced your sister and your siblings.
I will not speak for other members of my family who have not come forward.
I don't feel that that's appropriate.
But I will say that there were other family members who were affected, yes.
As you got older, and inevitably, you know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, we head towards our teenage years, our perception of the world, our understanding of the world, changes.
We learn more.
We understand what motivates things that happen around us.
We get what's going on a bit more.
So talk to me about the process, if it did continue, the continuing process of you being abducted and things being done.
Yes.
So as I got older, you know, I'm becoming more and more used to being taken.
I'm not even trying to remember or be aware sometimes when it happens.
I'm like, just, I don't want to think about it.
I don't want to remember it.
I want to block these things out.
I have blocked a lot of things out and I don't care to remember them because they're too difficult to remember.
But they're there.
You know, they're on the, it's one of those things where I'm not going to allow myself to fully remember something because I can, the memory that I have is just so difficult.
But as I'm getting older, what's happened is I've been conditioned by these entities and basically groomed to just go along with what's going on and be a part of what they're doing.
You used a very specific term there.
You think that they were preparing you for something.
Absolutely.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
The abduction occurrences weren't as frequent through that kind of 10 to 14 years old range in there, maybe eight or nine.
They started to really slow down.
They weren't there as frequently.
And although it still happened, and things were just more kind of taking blood from me when I would go in or doing things I didn't understand what they were doing exactly and what they were taking from me.
And when I would be, if I would wake up during an exam or during a time when I was taken, quite often, as soon as I would wake up, they had this way of just waving their hand over my eyes or over my forehead, and I would go back to sleep.
And then the next thing I know, I'd wake up back in my room.
And I was okay with that because I didn't want to experience whatever was going on.
And they never at any stage, you know, you go to the dentist when you're a kid.
I can remember my dentist used to sing speed bonnie boat to me when I was five.
And, you know, in those days, they were using anesthetics and he'd sing speed bonny boat.
And the next thing I'd wake up and whatever horrible dental work had to be done, aged five, six, seven, eight, had been done.
These creatures who were doing these things with you, did they never try anything that you might regard as empathetic?
Because you're a child.
You're young when these things are happening to you initially.
They never gave you any comfort.
The only comfort that I could say they gave me was just saying things like, we're not going to hurt you.
You're special.
You're important.
And the thing where they would wave their hand over my eyes or my forehead and I would not feel pain and I would kind of go to sleep and be put into a sleep state.
So to me, that's the extent of empathy that I felt I was given from them.
You say that these were ongoing experiences.
They slowed down.
When you got towards your teenage years, I am presuming, but you should never presume that they picked up again at one point.
You talked about, and I said to my listener at the beginning of this, you wouldn't have heard me do the introduction, but I said to my listener, listener discretion, advise this is not one for the kids.
You say that you were effectively raped by them.
That is horrific.
Yes, it was.
It was absolutely horrific.
And it Affected my relationships, how I have relationships, what I thought about relationships, what I thought about sex, and everything else.
It skewed everything for me.
And it took a long time for me to heal from that and to be able to have a healthy relationship.
And I'm still working on that every day.
But yes, I don't know why they needed to do that.
It seemed so ritualistic to me.
And it seemed like they were just obsessed with humans and sexuality and their own sexuality.
And they used it as a form of control over me.
They used it as a form of control over the people working there to say, you don't want this to happen to your daughter, your wife, your friend, what have you.
And it was done on a public manner, which was disgusting and horrifying.
And I had no, you know, I was restrained.
I had no way out.
I had no, there was, there was nothing I could do.
I don't know how you don't know how you come through that, right?
I am presuming, and again, never, ever presume, that this is all to do with, if we follow the narrative, with, as you said, their interest in physiology, sexuality.
We've heard before in other accounts from people that they're interested in our, for want of a better word, bloodlines.
They're interested in what makes us us, what makes us tick.
Yes, absolutely.
I know, you don't come out of something like that, and you don't ever really heal from it, and it doesn't ever get easier to talk about.
But what it does is it creates a space where other people can come forward and say, yeah, that happened to me, but if you can get through it, I can get through it.
If you can heal from it, I can heal from it.
If you can find a way, I can find a way.
And that to me is worth sharing something so painful because it's not something I ever in a million years thought I would share.
But I see worth in doing it for other people.
I see worth in doing it because I wish someone had been there for me to say it's okay.
After school, did you go to work?
Did you go to college?
And whichever of those it is, did these things keep happening?
Yes, both.
And yes, they did.
After school, I did go to work and I did go to college and I got married.
And then I got pregnant.
I was very excited.
We weren't trying to have a baby.
It was unexpected.
But I got pregnant and I went to my doctor's appointments and got my prescription for my vitamins because back then that had to be a prescription.
And, you know, had everything confirmed because we had to do blood tests for confirmation then as well, things like that.
And about somewhere in the end of the first trimester, it's hard to always pinpoint, you know, exactly how far along you are in the beginning.
I woke up one night and I was spotting just a little bit.
I wasn't bleeding.
Nothing bad was coming out of me, but my abdomen hurt so bad.
I just had such horrible pain.
And my husband took me to the emergency room and they couldn't find a heartbeat.
And they did an ultrasound and there was no baby.
And they did a DNC and there was no fetal tissue in my uterus at all.
But I had still testing positive.
I, you know, had those hormones in my blood.
And they couldn't explain it.
They're like, well, you must have lost the baby at home.
And I'm like, I would know if I lost the baby at home.
And were they telling you we've never seen this before?
No, they didn't say that at all.
They just said, you must have lost the baby at home.
Are you sure you were even pregnant?
I'm like, well, you just did the test.
You know, how does that happen?
And no one could explain it to me.
I didn't get to mourn that baby properly.
I didn't get to know if it was a boy or a girl or what happened to it or where it went.
And this happened, you know, again over the years.
And because of your history, was your head telling you you knew what happened?
Yes, absolutely.
It was.
And there was a time after that where I was taken, and I was in this facilities.
These underground facilities that I was taken to were huge.
They were massive.
There were just, imagine football stadiums and airports and everything all put together and schools and stuff because there are hallways and massive rooms and small rooms and stairs and elevators and waiting rooms and examination rooms and all kinds of things.
You know, it was so, but there's no way I would ever be able to find my way around in the places they took me.
It was just so big.
But one time when they took me, they walked me down this particular hallway.
Everything is very darkly lit as well.
Either sort of a red or a blue or a violet kind of backlighting where it's not bright in most of the rooms.
There are bright lights that they would shine on me, but the rooms themselves in general, most of the hallways, were extremely dark.
This particular hallway was very backlit in a red color.
And it was a long hallway and very high ceilings.
And both sides of the hallway were lined with what looked like aquariums in a fish shop, in a pet shop.
And in those aquarium-looking things were what I could only describe as fetuses of some sort.
I don't know what type they were.
They were all different sizes and shapes.
They looked kind of human, some of them, but, you know, I don't know exactly what they were, and I couldn't see the ones that were over my head, over my vision.
And I'm just like dumbfounded as they're walking me down this hallway.
We get to the end of that part of the hallway where those aquarium things end, and there's Just a regular hallway going forward.
But at that point, there's a door on either end side of the hallway.
And they open one of those doors and motion for me to go in.
It's the size of a large closet, maybe.
And there's a woman in there, and she's on the floor, a human.
She's on the floor pretending to give birth, and she has what looks like a strange, odd baby in her hands.
And I was just like, what is going on?
And then there's a gray and a Nordic alien with me at that point.
And the gray hands me a little baby and says, this is your baby.
It's a good baby.
Hold your baby.
And I take this baby and I'm looking at it and it's very red-purple in color.
It's very small.
I hold it up to me, up to my chest, up to my shoulder, my chest area.
And it won't cuddle into me like a normal baby might.
It didn't respond to me at all.
And I'm like, what's wrong with this baby?
If this is my baby, what's wrong with it?
It doesn't look like a normal baby.
And it's not responding.
And I got very, very upset.
And they're like, it's a good baby.
Just hold your baby.
I'm like, no, something's wrong with it.
And I'm getting more and more agitated and upset.
And so they're like, okay, okay, you have to go now.
And I'm like, no, no, I want my baby.
I'm keeping my baby.
And at that point, they did that thing where they just shut me down, turned me, you know, to sleep mode.
And the next thing I know, I woke up back in my bed without that baby.
And I was so upset because I knew it wasn't human, but I also, as a mom, I just wanted to fix it, to help it, to make it right.
Of course.
I didn't understand.
Do you believe now, Karen, that you were a part of, again, we write about and we think we understand more about these things now, if we do.
Do you think that you were part of some kind of hybridization process?
Yes, absolutely.
I do.
Absolutely.
They told me it was my baby and I knew it was mine.
You know, I just, I could see it.
I could feel it.
I could, I knew it was mine and I wanted it back so badly.
And years and years later, I'm still praying about, you know, God, if these children exist, I want them.
I want to see them.
I want to have them back.
And it didn't line up with what my faith tells me that, you know, that is basically what you might call a modern-day Nephilim.
I never understood that until recently, but it was, you know, a hybrid.
It's not human.
But I didn't care.
If they were alive, I wanted to see them.
As a mom, I wanted them.
I wanted to see them.
I wanted them to know I loved them.
I prayed and prayed about it.
And I woke up one night.
And at this point, to not skip ahead too far, but I have figured out that, you know, I was, I was, I found my faith when I was about 18, 19 years old.
And then I fell away from that.
And then about eight years ago, seven, eight years ago, I found it again after my near-death experience.
I just found my way back to it.
And that's when I realized how to stop these unwanted abductions.
Okay.
Two things to ask about that.
The near-death experience, we need to know, I think, a little bit about that because I think it's material to it by the sounds of it.
And also, you refound your faith, you said.
Yes.
Did you ever tell a pastor, a clergy person, whatever you call them in the United States, did you ever tell anybody to do with the church about this?
Oh, gosh, no, not at the time.
No one in church has ever talked about anything supernatural or unusual.
You know, it was just come in, sit down, pray, learn, and go home.
And I'd never met a pastor or anyone who would speak of such things.
Now I have.
Now I do.
But at that time, my goodness, no, I was afraid they would think I was crazy.
What do they say to you now?
Now I have amazing, a few amazing pastors and people in my life who are extremely supportive and kind and loving.
They absolutely believe me.
They point to passages like Genesis 6.
We have a very clear understanding of what we think happened and who these entities are.
And it's amazing that there is support in the biblical Christian community.
Okay.
And the near-death experience.
Yes.
So I was going in for surgery, a back surgery.
I've had many of those.
A lot of unexplainable issues with my bones and my back, things doctors are like, we don't know why this is happening.
So I've had to have a lot of rods, wires, plates, and things, screws and things in my back.
I went to have another one of those surgeries.
They're major surgeries.
I've been with the surgeon twice before already.
They prepped me for surgery and I had two IV ports in, but I wasn't hooked up to any machines or any IVs or any monitors yet.
And they took me into the operating room, but they kind of made a mistake.
No one was ready for me yet.
So the nurses were in there, but the doctor wasn't ready.
So I am in an operating room.
There are two nurses, and I'm still not hooked up to anything.
A woman comes in with a white lab coat on, short dark hair, and she says she's an anesthesiologist or a nurse anesthetist.
I can't remember which one.
Leans over me and she's got a pocket full of syringes and she pulls one out and pushes it into my IV port.
And I'm thinking, this is my sedative.
Now I'm going to feel really good and just drift off while I wait for them to get ready to start the surgery.
And she turns and walks away.
And She had given me a paralytic, and I lay there, and suddenly my body was like cement, and I was back in a very familiar and uncomfortable scenario where I couldn't move and I couldn't speak and I couldn't motion for help and I couldn't breathe.
And there was nothing I could do.
I was helpless.
And I never saw this woman again.
This is the only time I ever saw her.
As I'm laying there, and I can't breathe, I'm dying, I just remember in my head saying, dear God, please help me.
And I heard an audible voice that said, it's okay, you can let go now.
And in the blink of an eye, in an instant, in the snap of a finger, less than that, I was out of my body and watching everything.
I could see what was happening in the other rooms, where the doctor was, where he was getting things ready for the surgery.
I could see the hallways, things like that.
I felt the most love and peace beyond any explanation.
We have nothing like it.
It was the most profound love and profound peace.
It was the most beautiful, beautiful feeling in the world.
There's nothing to just, no way to even describe it.
And the thing that I noticed most was that I was still me.
I was still my personality.
And that shocked me more than anything.
And that, you know, I just felt that love and that peace, and it was so beautiful.
And I knew everything I needed to know.
Like, I had to stay right there by my body.
I knew I was going back into my body at some point.
Like, there was never a question of, do you want to stay or do you want to go?
I knew I was going back in at some point.
They went forward with the surgery, and I am okay today.
Thank you very much.
I have had, I think, one, two, three, four or five more surgeries since then.
It's just, it all seems to be related back to this lifetime of being taken because there are just some medical things that are like, we just can't explain this.
But then while I was writing the book, I was doing research because, you know, I've never really researched ufology or UFOs or anything before because I was just never comfortable with the subject because it was too difficult for me.
I couldn't watch a movie or a show or read a book about it.
It was just too terrible, too hard, too hard.
When you've been in that, you're not going to immerse yourself back in it, you know.
And I found this report, and I published it in the book because it came out in 2022 called Anomalous, Acute, and Subacute Field Effects on Human Biological Tissues.
And it confirmed all the things that have happened to me.
On April 6th of 2022, Brett Baer on our news, on our Fox News channel, aired a report where he said, I feel like we should have the X-Files music here, but they say the truth is out there and it might be terrifying.
A just uncovered Defense Department summary of UFO-induced effects ranging from abduction and paralysis to electrical shocks and even sexual encounters is shocking the world tonight.
Presumably you saw that and said, hallelujah.
That's the truth.
I said, now people are going to see what's really happening.
You would think that the whole world would be up in arms on that.
There was crickets.
Nothing happened.
Nothing.
That report even talks about the unexplained missing pregnancies.
I have to say that I never saw that, but that's interesting.
Look, as you got older, you developed, didn't you, if I've got this right, a different relationship with whatever it is that was abducting you, taking you, and working with you in the way that they were doing?
Because, you know, you have accounts of you being trained by them, trained to pilot UFOs by them, having a handler, having somebody who is working specifically with you.
So how did that relationship, which seems to be a relationship of violence almost with you, how did that relationship change to where they're teaching you things and guiding you in some ways?
Right.
You know, it's funny.
It was like an abusive relationship where you learn to accept this bad behavior as normal behavior.
And every now and then, they'll do something nice to kind of keep you on the line, if that makes sense.
A lot of people stay in abusive relationship ships for a very long time because it's what they know and it's what I knew.
All I knew my whole life was this, that I was being taken, that this was just a part of my life and other people's lives.
So I thought it was, you know, it was just, to me, it was normal, as weird as that sounds.
Because it was.
But they trained you, they schooled you.
Like, you know, I got lessons from my dad who taught me to drive a VW Beetle.
You're saying that they taught you to fly a UFO.
They did.
They did.
You know, I had a person I called my handler because that just kind of defines who and what he was to me.
He didn't have a name.
It was like an imprint, like a mind imprint, like a knowing.
Everyone there didn't have names like we do.
They had, it's so hard to describe, but it's almost the way animals know each other, you know.
And I called him Toby when I was little, just because I gave him a name.
And he was always with me, and that relationship continued to grow to a Stockholm syndrome type relationship as I got older.
And I felt a genuine type of affection for him in that respect.
And he, they did like these data downloads to me where I would just learn stuff without having to open a book.
You know what I mean, it was just they would give me information.
School was very easy for me.
I didn't have to open a book.
I just, you know, went in and did what I did and took the test.
They're like, oh, you're so smart.
You know, and I'm like, well, not really.
And then I don't talk about the ship thing a lot because I don't like to glamorize what they did.
But they did teach me how to pilot these little ships.
There are little ones that kind of come off the ends of the bigger ships.
It's almost like a little bubble popping off the end when you're in it.
So there's a mothership and there are smaller ones.
Yeah, there's a bigger ship.
I don't know if it would necessarily be a mothership, but I'm sure there are motherships.
But there was just like a bigger ship that kind of holds the littler ships that pop out of the ends of it, almost like little bubbles pop out is the best way I can describe it for visual.
And so they would put me in one of the seats, and then there's a seat behind me with another entity, usually some sort of a gray.
And the seat, when I sat in it, it was kind of like the, it was kind of an egg-shaped seat.
I don't know if you've ever seen those ones that look like an egg almost.
The first time I saw something like that on TV, I just about peed my pants because I was just like, ugh.
Star Trek style, yes, I know.
Yeah, kind of.
But it looked like, you know, almost like a half an egg and you'd sit in it and it would just form to my body.
So I was just like in one with the chair.
It was like a living chair.
And it came around me and around my hands and everything.
And then the vehicle, ship, whatever you want to call it, moved by the slightest body movements and by thoughts.
It's like it was alive and I was just communicating with it.
And there was always another entity there with me too.
And it was like, even though it had walls and a form all around me, you could see through it, through the top, the bottom, the sides.
Not like plexiglass, but like, so hard to describe.
When you wanted, you could just see through it.
Just wherever you looked, that would be transparent.
So it's like the transparency almost kind of moved with your vision.
Why were they teaching you these things?
I really think to keep me interested, to keep me involved, to keep me from fighting, to keep me from, you know, I think the more, if I, they knew that I had already had my religious, my connection with God and fallen away.
And I really feel like they were worried that if I started getting upset, I would find my way back to that and I would figure out that they had no hold over me.
Okay.
Where are we at today?
Is this stuff still happening to you?
No.
They, not for lack of trying.
They have tried, but they can't touch me anymore.
They know they can't touch me.
They know they can't come for me.
They know that I understand that they have the same creator that I do and that they answer to the same creator that I do and that I can call on my creator and they have to listen.
So you believe that calling on God almost like, you know, what is it that they use for, it's garlic, isn't it, for vampires.
You know, that is, I mean, I don't want to trivialize this, not at all.
But you believe that the fact that you have that shield of your faith stops them from coming to you?
It does, yes.
I've watched it over and over again.
It stops them in their tracks.
They absolutely have to leave the second I call.
And it can be me calling on Jesus, calling on God in my head and my vocally, just my knowing.
But the second that I do, they're like, oh no, and they're gone.
Right.
So you're safe now.
But nevertheless, you have carried on with your life.
You started work.
You married a nice British guy.
You have, to all intents and purposes, a perfectly normal life.
But there are aspects of it that we both know are absolutely abnormal.
I'm not sure how you're able to do that.
You know, kudos to you for being able to do it.
How do you think you do that?
How do you manage normality when so many aspects of your life from what you say are clearly not normal?
Right.
I wouldn't say that my life has been normal.
You know, I would not say that at all.
There have been moments where it feels normal, moments where I don't think about all of this.
Those are few and far between.
It hasn't been normal.
It's been everything but.
And it's a constant struggle and a constant fight.
But I give all glory to God because I would not even be able to take one step with this if he weren't holding me up.
I'm just, it's too much.
Do you believe that those creatures that have been involved with you over these years from wherever they come, and maybe you can tell me where they are from, but from wherever they come, do you believe that they're a manifestation, because you are religious, a manifestation of the devil?
Not really.
What I believe is that there are entities that were created before man.
And this goes back to Genesis 6 in the Christian Bible and in other historical ancient texts and documents around the world.
There are similar stories where the sons of God fell away from God, the ones that he created before us.
Saw the daughters of men were beautiful and took of them wives of all that they chose.
The seed war started in Genesis 3, 15 and it continues on today.
So whatever it is, they're outcasts.
Yes, they are fallen.
Okay.
Now, the difficult part, and I'm saying this respectfully, because I have listened to with rapt attention every single word that you said.
You know, and I know I've said this before on this show, that there will be people listening to This say, saying that this is the most outlandish story.
This couldn't have happened.
Why have you got this person on your show?
And all of those things that I'm inevitably bound to hear.
Yes.
How can we know that this really happened, Karen?
You know, you can't, and that's the point.
I have nothing to gain by sharing this story with you.
You're not paying me.
I'm not getting anything from this.
You don't make a lot of money from writing a book.
That's not why I'm doing this.
I'm putting myself out there, and I'm putting myself out there to ridicule, but I'm doing it because it's helping other people.
And I feel that's very important, and I feel that that's my calling now.
And I have no reason to expect anyone to believe me, and you don't have to.
That's fine.
But these are my memories.
This is my life.
This is what happened to me.
And I am a victim of some very terrible things, and I am still healing.
And it's okay if you don't believe me.
But if you hear someone else talk about this, please don't, please don't hurt them.
They're already going through enough.
And have you contacted any of the abductee contactee groups?
Because, you know, they're strength in numbers and there is support there.
Right.
I have many people that I talk with regularly who have been in the same situation.
I am not a member of any of the other groups because I had not found one that fits into my belief system, but I am working on creating one that for people that I can just offer free, unabashed, you know, kindness, love, companionship, camaraderie, where people can come together and just have that someone who understands.
Because if you haven't been through it, it's very hard for someone to understand how difficult this is.
Does your husband understand this?
He does.
He's amazing.
He is absolutely amazing.
But he sees, you know, he doesn't see the brave face that I put forward or the, you know, the makeup and the hair done and trying to look presentable for people.
He sees the everyday.
He sees the hard stuff.
He sees the really difficult parts of this and he understands.
Obviously, the story is not over for you.
It impacts you.
I mean, look, I've been able to hear every nuance of the emotion in your voice.
And yeah, this isn't a video podcast.
And I think it's better in many ways because I think it's better to assess the person.
And I think you can make a better connection with somebody that you're speaking with by not actually seeing them.
That's a strange thing, but I've worked in sound all my life.
So I can hear distress is the wrong word, but I can hear that understandably, if this stuff happened, how affected you must be by all of this.
Is there anything that you would like to do or to happen to be done for you to help you through this process?
I don't know who could do that, but is there something that you would like?
You know, I have been so blessed on my journey that I have been lifted up by good, wonderful people who have just shown up to be there for me in my life.
My husband among them.
Wonderful people like you.
People like L.A. Marzuli, who has been a huge, and his wife have been an amazing support system for me.
So, you know, for myself, no.
But for others, yes.
You know, I want to be able to offer help and have other people be able to find just to know that it's okay if this has happened, that you can stop it and that you can heal and that I believe you.
They're important words, I believe you.
I've spoken with an awful lot of people who've had experiences that have been derided and criticized and mocked and all sorts of things by other people.
But those words, I believe you, I guess to somebody like that and to whom those things really have happened, they're very important words.
Yes.
The book is Stolen Seed Evil Harvest.
Is it selling well?
Is it doing well?
It's doing great.
Yeah.
We're selling it just exclusively at lamarzuli.net right now.
So we've just come out in October, so it's just really, really just now getting out there.
And yes, I'm very pleased with the fact that it's been received extremely well, and I've had just wonderful compliments and comments from people, and it's been able to actually help some people.
And that is the best part.
That makes me so happy.
It's quite a story, Karen.
It's a real roller coaster.
Thank you for sharing it.
Oh, thank you so much for your kindness and your support and just for listening and for sharing this.
It means so much to me.
Thank you.
You've been hearing Karen Wilkinson.
Your thoughts.
Welcome, of course, through the website theunexplained.tv.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of The Unexplained.
So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained online.
And whatever you do, please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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