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March 2, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:01:34
Edition 797 - Paranormal Bigfoot
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, still is, and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for being part of the worldwide family that is The Unexplained.
It's so nice of you to get in touch and tell me how you use the show.
Various stories, from people walking the dog in Western Australia to people on the public transit systems of America and Canada.
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So thank you very much for being part of it.
You know, it is a low-budget operation, but we seem to be hitting some kind of spot with it.
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On this show, we've talked many times about Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yaoi, the African variant, the Yeti, many, many times.
And sometimes when we've had those conversations, we've talked about the paranormal aspects of the phenomenon, the fact that these creatures seem to know where we are, seem sometimes to be able to get into our thoughts and communicate with us telepathically.
There are many odd aspects to the whole phenomenon of Bigfoot, Sasquatch, whatever you want to call it.
Some of them are to do with UFOs and orbs and that kind of thing.
So it's a particular delight, I think is the word, to bring you a conversation about a new documentary made by Tob Johnson and Brett Eichenberger, who've been into this subject before.
But this latest edition is A Flash of Beauty, Paranormal Bigfoot.
And it talks about all of those things, some of which defy science as we know it, that are attached to this phenomenon.
And also talks to the very sincere people who've had those experiences, ordinary people, it seems to me, just like yourself and myself, who've had the most remarkable experiences that literally are unexplained.
It's a great documentary, and I've just finished watching it so that I could do this conversation.
And I was spellbound by every moment and every guest, so I definitely recommend it.
I don't have to say that, but I do, and I mean it.
It's a flash of beauty, paranormal Bigfoot, and I definitely recommend it.
Thank you very much for being part of my show and part of this family.
Please keep the communications going.
I want to be able to take a little bit of time away from things at some point.
I know I keep saying that, don't I?
But I find myself, because it has been 18 years and, you know, sometimes you have to give a little bit of time to yourself.
So I might take a little bit of time away at some point just so that I can sleep a bit and not be, I probably will be anyway, but not be thinking about the show all the time.
But I will let you know when that might be.
Okay, let's get to the two guests then.
We're going to talk about the paranormal aspects of the Bigfoot phenomenon.
Tob Johnson and Brett Eichenberger, thank you very much for coming on my show.
Thanks for having us.
So listen, because there are three of us here and we're doing this in sound, I think maybe it would be good if I could just introduce you individually.
Tob, first of all, you talk to me about your background and where you're at on this project.
Well, I grew up here in the Pacific Northwest, and as a matter of speaking, you know, Sasquatch always comes up as a topic of conversation, mainly around the campfires, but also the locals around Oregon, Washington, and California have been talking for years about Sasquatch.
And it just got me thinking, man, oh man, can I have an experience myself?
It turns out that pretty much anybody that looks into the matter here can find more than folklore happening.
And you can look into the subject matter and have your own experience along the way.
And that's kind of how Brett and I met was based upon a property in a little town in Oregon where I was looking into the subject matter of Sasquatch and coming up with all sorts of strange conclusions.
Indeed.
And the people who guessed on the documentary very much add to the case, add to the story here in a way that I personally haven't seen before.
So Brett, you're the guy behind the visuals here.
Explain the procedure because this is very nicely shot.
You seem to put people very well at their ease.
Thank you, Howard.
I appreciate it.
That just comes back to experience.
And, you know, I've been doing this more than half my life.
And so my goal is to make these folks feel comfortable in front of the camera.
And this isn't an easy thing to do because of the stigma attached to it.
You know, a lot of, as you well know, a lot of paranormal witnesses are reluctant to come out and talk about these things.
But I want to assure these people that there are other people out there, and this has been verified ad nauseum.
There are other people out there that really look to these eyewitnesses to kind of get a sense of the fact that they're not crazy, in other words, you know what I mean?
And I've also found, we've also found that some of these eyewitnesses kind of see this as therapy.
If they can kind of relax and just get the details out and tell the story, it feels like it's a burden that's come off their chest.
And so it's great all the way around, you know, for people looking for guidance and verification that what they saw was real to the folks that are talking about their own sightings.
And I think that's important.
There is a sense, and I'm glad that you brought that up, Brett, there is a sense in the eyes of the people who talk on this that I don't see very often in documentaries of this kind.
And as you can understand, I get to see quite a few.
You can see the sense of relief that, hey, I'm talking about It and I'm able to give this experience to other people who I don't necessarily know.
And finally, I'm able to, I guess, unburden myself.
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
There's a lot of trauma that occurs after one of these sightings.
It completely changes your worldview.
And we talk about that in the first documentary, a Flash of Beauty, Bigfoot Revealed.
And we actually talked to a psychologist, a clinical psychologist, who gets into the workings of the brain and how the brain processes some of this trauma.
And that's one of the things that we went into these documentary series, you know, really looking to expose was how the fact that these people just aren't the same people that they were prior to this, you know, sometimes 30-second experience.
And to me, that's very telling as to how these things can affect you and manipulate you.
Tob, the thing that strikes me about it is that this is a very different production.
I thought when it was suggested that I do this conversation about a new documentary to do with Bigfoot, I just thought, okay, here we go again.
Hairy, smelly, found all around the world, very mysterious, but there's no evidence.
And that's basically how a lot of them come out.
What I wasn't ready for was the discussion, in fact, the focus on the paranormal aspects, which of course is in the title of the documentary.
But it is something that is skirted around, I think, by a lot of guests I've had on this show.
Talked about obliquely.
Oh, yes, they appear and disappear.
That's why they're so elusive.
That's why they have that strange impression.
They give that strange impression to people because, you know, you can't go out and find them on any particular day.
They're going to behave mysteriously.
And in a way, they seem to know more about us than we know about them.
So this is an aspect of the entire phenomenon that doesn't get a lot of coverage.
And kudos to you for doing this.
Well, you know, if we look at the story of Sasquatch from the First Nations point of view, we get to that conclusion a lot quicker.
You know, this is what they told me early on is that they come from the worlds between, right?
That they are set apart for a reason.
They are animal-like, but they are human in nature with these puzzling powers.
And so I took the long way around about seven years from about 2005 to around 2012, let's say, where I came to my own conclusion that something else was happening.
And for me, the tipping point was, and for a lot of people, are seeing these unusual lights in proximity to where Sasquatch is.
Now, once you wrap your mind around the fact that these orbs and these lights exist in and around Bigfoot activity experiences and sightings, it leads you into a whole different type of understanding and some for a very uncomfortable type of understanding that Sasquatch probably will never be figured out.
It is an experience to have, much like a UFO experience.
If there is a day of disclosure, like the day that is now slowly unveiling based upon all this UAP-UFO stuff, it may take shape years down the road.
But I tend to think that this is just, you know, a consciousness-based thing that we're all experiencing, that we have experienced throughout our lifetime.
And there's only a certain percentage of people that really want to look at this issue and begin to investigate it.
And, you know, thank God for people like Brett, Jill, and Mike, the filmmakers here, that took this artistic, patient, almost ceremonial approach to looking at Sasquatch.
Well, of course, Tobe, you say that there is a limited number of people who want to take a look at this.
But as we discover as the film goes on, there are people into whose life it comes, whether they want it or they don't.
Well, correct, but it's what you do with that initial sighting.
You know, oftentimes these are five-second experiences in the night, and yet it leads to a lifetime of chasing that experience.
You know, oftentimes this is like an adrenaline rush for the male to basically prove to his coworkers and his family that, yes, he had an experience and he's going to prove it to the world.
And I think we all kind of start from that place of excitement that, hey, I'm going to be the one that gets closest to this element here.
And really at the end of it, you know, what I write in my book and what Brett expresses in this documentary is that if you chase this issue too hard, at the end of it, all you have is, you know, shadows and basically plaster of, you know, Paris on your hands from casting footprints.
The tangible evidence that we all seek is always so elusive.
And I think it's time we ask why.
It is.
And it brings us back to a point that I made at the very beginning of this, probably in a very clumsy fashion, but there is the impression that they simply know an awful lot more about the way that this world works, functions, always has, than we do.
Well, I think so.
I mean, they're having a somewhat human experience in human areas here.
And part of what we get into is this idea that these the takeaway for me is that getting to know Sasquatch takes an introduction from a human.
As crazy as that sounds, you seem to have to be embedded, kind of like Jane Goodall's style, in the Sasquatch hotspots, i.e.
a place where they frequent that is all their own, basically their living room, which is, you know, in this case, the Pacific Northwest wilderness, or in a remote farm house like we experienced at the Al Moon Lab, which is a place where Sasquatch seems to come more frequent on, you know, the residents of humans.
And this is where the strangeness really takes off.
And this is, you know, part of the difference from the story that I tell is that we had the opportunity to basically have them come to us as where most of the people are chasing after the evidence, sometimes years after.
When it comes to you, it brings, gosh, a whole plethora of strangeness with it beyond typical Bigfoot stuff.
And this is moving ahead a little, but I'll still do it here because I think it fits.
The idea that it can Be aware, the Sasquatch, the Bigfoot, can be aware of what you're thinking of, what you need, what you want.
And once it's in Sympatico with you, it can actually bring you those things.
There's a case in the film about somebody being brought a cell phone and various items being brought appropriately to the residence, to the home.
Well, this is what First Nations, again, the native indigenous people have been saying they've been gifting with the wild man, Sasquatch.
They all have different names for what we call Bigfoot, right?
And that they've been gifting them back and forth.
There's almost like these treaties where they would bring them, you know, dried salmon and leave the salmon out on a stump or leave it in the smokehouse.
And then Sasquatch would come back with like a skinned deer and hang it in a tree for them.
By the way, these are like recent stories I've been getting from natives out here in the Pacific Northwest within the last five years.
So these things still occur on the reservation land where I think they feel more comfortable.
But think of like a house, in this case, a little place, you know, tucked away in the woods, five acres perhaps, is its own kind of reservation, its own little area where they feel comfortable with the land and possibly the landowners.
And so this is what, you know, Flash of Beauty really gets into is these are the stories that Bigfooters tell when the cameras go off, when the microphones get turned off.
They talk about these experiences and we're just talking about them out loud.
Yep.
I thought when I saw the title, A Flash of Beauty, I wondered, you know, paranormal Bigfoot, A Flash of Beauty, how does that fit here?
But as you watch the, I guess you could call it cinematography unfold in front of you, as you watch the visuals, Brett, it starts to make sense that this is not just a bunch of stories.
This is a group of experiences told to you from people who experience.
If it's okay with both of you, I've got a couple of audio clips.
They're only a minute long from the soundtrack that I took.
Please tell me if you don't want me to use them either, Brett or Tob.
But the first one that I've got is Raven Wolf, a Native American.
And Brett, I thought that you positioned him.
In fact, you positioned all of these people in this documentary beautifully, but you positioned him beautifully for the filming.
You could see that he was completely at ease.
And you could also see that he was saying things that he does not routinely say.
There isn't the opportunity to say them.
So if you don't mind, Brett and Tob, I'm going to play this cut of Ravenwolf now, and we'll just hear what Ravenwolf has to say.
I ask you forgiveness for talking so plainly, talking so openly.
I hope that you can find it in yourselves to allow me to speak of these things.
These beings have been here a lot longer than we have, and they despise us because we have broken the rules, the laws, the universal truths, the spiritual way of being in balance with creation.
But they too have a language, a culture, ceremonies.
They take care of their own.
They don't want to be seen.
They don't want to be known.
They just want to live.
This world that we live in is both spiritual and physical.
Some people like to use the terms interdimensional, but it's all the same thing.
They can seamlessly move in between.
And they do have ways from what we understand to emit maybe ultra-low frequencies to stun us so that they can move out of the area.
And that is the core of it, really, Brett.
That they seem to inhabit a realm that we do not inhabit, but they have the ability to cross over into ours in a way that we would find difficult to cross into theirs, if I put that properly.
Yeah, that's correct.
That's correct.
And we really build towards that, towards the end of the documentary when we get into Harold and Cody's case, because the traditional idea that these things, or maybe it's not a traditional idea, for us it is anyways, that these things just kind of walk in and out of portals is shattered.
What Harold and Cody see and what they experience on a roadside in Oregon is mind-blowing to say the least.
But these things have complete control over time, space, over nature.
They can come and go as they please anywhere at any time.
And sometimes that means that they are there in physical form and or, you know, like we've got, you know, both Tob and I have heard dozens of reports of them being in an invisible form, you know, almost like a ghost.
So they're, I mean, what they're able to do really kind of plays with our minds.
It's hard to digest, but we also get into that aspect of it with Dr. Simeon Hine and some of his theories and how this relates to, you know, wild ideas involving dark matter and quantum physics and ball lightning.
I mean, there is the notion that comes through the documentary in the scientific portions of it.
And again, we come back to this thing that they know more than we do.
They understand the way things work.
And the idea that perhaps we only appreciate a tenth of what is going on around us, and there is 90% that is unseen but nevertheless is there.
And Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yaoi, Yeti, whatever you want to call it, inhabits that portion.
And that portion may be capable of things that because of our scientific rationalism, if you want to call it that, they're capable of things that we are not capable of.
Correct, correct.
As a matter of fact, Henry Franzoni is a scientist.
He was in our first film, A Flash of Beauty, Bigfoot Revealed, which is more of a traditional case study of Bigfoot.
And Henry Franzoni recently did an updated interview for us for our YouTube channel.
And he talks about his understanding of Bigfoot as being scientists.
And whereas humans are good at some things, most, you know, specifically mechanical things, Bigfoot and the like are better at, you know, the physics side of things.
You know, They're fully into the Einstein realm of relativity and, again, manipulating time and space and whatnot.
So that's his understanding.
And that's not something new.
I mean, we've heard, you know, again, both Tob and I have heard shades of that from many other people from across the country.
And this ability seemingly to get into your mind, I think that is the thing that I've heard talked about before.
I've done sound interviews with people.
But to hear people on your documentary talking about the way that they seamlessly seem to integrate into your mind and talk to you, you know, without using words that you can hear, but you can sense them in your brain.
It is quite literally mind-blowing as a concept.
It really is.
It really is.
And I think that there are, you know, this is kind of a different, what's the word I'm looking for, a different experience with everybody.
Some people report seeing pictures and images.
Other people report hearing a voice.
And so, you know, they kind of meet you where you're at.
Other people have had paranormal experiences and they've never had the mind speak experience.
So they've had this phenomena occurring quite often, but, you know, for whatever reason, there's no telepathic connection.
And again, you know, going back to what Tob said earlier, this comes back all the way full circle to the UAP phenomenon and the abduction phenomenon.
There seems to be this ability with, you know, whether it's extraterrestrials or Sasquatch, there's definitely this ability to get into our mind and speak with us.
I want to take you, Tob, back to Ravenwolf just for a second there, because there was a point that he made that shocked me.
And the point was that they, I think the word was, despise us.
That scientific rationalism that we work from.
They really don't think much of that because they seem to take the opinion, and they may well be right, that we don't understand everything there is to be understood.
And that is reflected in everything we do and all the mistakes that we make.
So the idea that they are attuned to us to the point where they will despise the way we do things was a bit of a shocker to me.
Well, and I think that might be the overall case, but, you know, I leaned in pretty heavy to what I would call these Sasquatch contactees that, you know, the reason you call them that is due to the overlap of the UFO issue blending into the Sasquatch issue.
And what these contactees were saying, or these habituators, is that Sasquatch is having this kind of back and forth relationship with them.
There is this initial gifting process that begins.
And then there is this communication, however, that happens through, you know, late night visitations, sometimes sightings, and these strange lights, which for the most part are not off-putting.
They're quite stunning, actually, to see these self-illuminated organic lights appear as a kind of a beautiful angelic thing for the most part.
But there is this personality profile that fits into humanity where we have people that can suddenly be a problem, can go to jail for it.
And I think those kind of things happen in this world as well.
But yet they are set apart.
There is, and I love the fact that Brett brought this up regarding Sasquatch using their mind as the form of tech instead of engineering things.
And here they are.
We picture them as being so limited just based upon the anatomy and possibly how they survive.
But yet there is this overwhelming data set that is being ignored about what they can do with their mind as far as influence humans to and from them.
And certainly what he brought up regarding infrasound, this is one of the things that Sasquatchers talk about quite a bit, being zapped is what they call it behind closed doors.
And that's literally the ability of these beings being able to infiltrate somebody's mind and send a grown man down the hill crying.
I've witnessed this myself.
At that point, yeah, you would believe that they despise humanity or at least that individual.
Can they, do they have the ability to make you forget you've ever seen them?
That's a great question.
Sorry to jump on your toes, Toe, but I'll just jump in here real quick.
That's a great question.
And psychologically, and this is why I'm butting in here real quick.
Psychologically, the answer to that is yes.
Yes-ish, I should say, because the human brain sometimes, in order to deal with the trauma, will suppress these sightings.
And after a number of years, it wonders if it really happened or if it was just a dream.
And I'll let Tob continue on with that.
Well, before you do, Tob, let me just say this.
This whole idea that came out very, very early in the documentary, and again, it was a real surprise to me.
And I thought, I'm going to have to watch every minute of this now.
This idea that you can only perceive them or see them almost as if you've been vetted to be okay by them or somebody has, as you said earlier, introduced you to them.
In other words, there will be people who go to the same bit of forest at the same time and don't see anything and other people who will go at the same time of night to the same part of the forest and will see something.
It is a phenomenon that is dependent on the balance between the Susquatch and the human being.
Yeah, and doesn't that sound a lot like the UAP-UFO issue?
It's the same phenomenon.
It's hard to tell the difference most times when you look into this issue.
And I mean, you're really right.
Like, I have to hang out generally when I go Bigfooting with these people that have these experiences all the time.
I'm not myself, not a magnet.
I need to be around people that are kind of the magnet and kind of host off of them and see what the experiences are with them.
And sometimes that takes a whole, you know, lot Of time to find somebody like that, and they could be from a different subsect of society and have a different schedule than you.
But when you go out into the forest with them, I'll be darned if the legitimate experiences don't start to happen.
So, in a way, I mean, yeah, to your point, yes, I mean, you can go a lifetime and not remember these experiences and then suddenly start having experiences.
And, you know, the dream state, right?
Like, we didn't really get into that in the documentary, but dreams are a big thing as far as interacting with this phenomena.
Also, the UFO phenomena.
Are these dreams, are these experiences, are they dealing with you in some kind of different plane of existence where you're more malleable, you're in this liminal state?
I tend to think so.
Let's hear a clip now, if this is okay with you both, of Rick Taylor.
Now, I would describe Rick Taylor as an outdoorsman.
He's a man who's very comfortable in that environment.
And if you don't both mind me playing this, I'm going to roll it right now.
This is Rick Taylor, who I think is about 20 minutes, 25 minutes into the documentary.
As clear as I'm speaking to you, the words, expression, the thought, very clear, said, why are you carrying a gun?
When that came through my head, I kind of freaked out.
I'd never had an experience like that.
And my thought to myself was, Rick, you're losing it.
You're hearing voices in your head.
And I tried to ignore it.
And whoever was speaking to me knew I was trying to ignore it.
And the profound volume or intensity was cranked up 10 times, you know.
And the words repeated, why are you carrying a gun?
And the second time it went through my head, I knew they're talking to me.
Absolutely, they were.
And he had to formulate his response, didn't he?
He formulated a response that told them, well, I have this for protection, essentially.
It's not to get you.
Yeah, you know, Rick Taylor, that case is really interesting.
And he knew better than to fib in that circumstance.
I mean, they're in his head.
And, you know, he was very honest with them.
But what I thought was fascinating, this is a little bit of a spoiler alert, is they were very concerned about the safety of their friend Arla, who happened to be there at the same time.
And Rick was on Arla's land as this was occurring.
And she was the kind of ambassador for him.
Correct.
Correct.
She was the ambassador of him.
And this kind of goes back to one of the overall arching themes of both of our films is that these things are not monsters.
These things do care about humanity.
You know, Ravenwolf obviously talks about how they despise us.
And I think going back to that for just a brief second is there are many things, obviously, that humans are, shall I say, sloppy at, maybe, for lack of a better word, you know, climate being one of them.
We're not really the greatest caretakers of the Earth.
And I think that a lot of what TJ is saying, TJ Ravenwolf is his full name, I think a lot of what he's saying is that they're really just not happy with our behavior.
And, you know, that's understandable.
But going back to Arla and Rick, that interaction really kind of had a profound effect on me when I first heard it because they did care about her.
They were interested in revealing themselves.
And I think that his story really is profound in the way that it played out in its entirety.
And if they decided that you were a threat to them, would they simply make themselves scarce and disappear and not be visible to you by cloaking themselves?
Or have there been any cases of them, I've heard of them throwing rocks, for example, but not much more than that.
Cases of them actually presenting a physical threat to a person?
Do you want that one, Brent?
Yeah, there has been many cases, Howard, of them really kind of driving home the point that you're not welcome in their quote-unquote living room.
What's fascinating to me is that these things have impeccable aim as far as rocks go, because I have yet to meet a person who has ever been hit by one, but they land awfully close.
But, you know, we interviewed Elaine Miles, who was actually an actress on the show Northern Exposure back in the 1990s.
And she's currently on her YouTube channel right now.
It was an interview specifically for YouTube.
And Elaine talks about how they were floating down a river a number of years back in an area of Northern California when all of a sudden boulders, she called them boulders, started flying in from off the bank into the river.
And it was, I mean, just seconds thereafter that they saw a Bigfoot standing on the bank.
But none of these things have harmed a person.
I don't have actual, I don't know, you know, I don't know that Tob has, but I have not heard actual accounts of people being physically hurt by these things.
And with that being said, the little disclaimer is that there are a number of people that go missing in the wilderness of most predominantly the western United States.
And David Pilates has done a great job on that research.
Whether those are Bigfeet or UFOs or people in the wrong place at the wrong time with wild animals is to be determined.
But there is some indication that some of that could be Bigfoot related.
Why are they never seen?
They can be diverse.
Why are they never seen in urban areas?
You know, we have a lot of urban areas in the United Kingdom that are fringed by what they call green belt, country areas.
I live in one of them.
It's very close to the greenest parts.
How come these things are never experienced, as far as I know, in our urban built-up environment, bearing in mind that that environment is encroaching on their environment all the time?
I think Tobes got a great response for you in that regard due to some breaking news.
Yeah, so they do access greenbelts.
The problem is that there's such a stigma talking about Sasquatch, let alone if you saw one in your own neighborhood.
So these greenbelts are all over where I live.
They're all over the Pacific Northwest and they back up to houses, right?
And of course, there's these power lines, which are longtime Sasquatch intersection zones and wildlife zones, and also UFO hotspot zones are these power lines that flow through these green belts because there's riverways there.
There's often rare or interesting rocks, including quartz and things of that nature out in that area.
But to answer your question, I think the data set might be off a little bit by presuming the fact that they are not in greenbelts.
In fact, we just took a report here of one that came out in the little town of La Pine, Oregon, where it was watching somebody empty their garbage and then escape through a greenbelt.
That was just last Monday.
So they do exist.
I myself may have activity on and off around where we live here in the Olympic Peninsula.
Certainly the last place we lived was even more populated.
We were near a naval base and we were having activity and there were witness reports all around this major highway and this naval base.
So it does happen.
Of the people that you spoke with, and you spoke with a great range of people, and all of them had sincerity, as far as I'm concerned, painted all over their faces.
Either of you really, how do you believe that they were changed by their experience?
Because it's clear that with people like Rick, it was profound.
Yeah, it was absolutely profound.
And, you know, Tob and I, one of the things that we have in common is the film, A Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
We use this example quite often because Stevens Bielberg nailed it with the character of Roy Neary and how his one night UFO, you know, 30-second experience changed him so profoundly that he left his family and went into pursuit of these things, of this phenomenon.
And it is no different with Sasquatch.
Regardless of whether it's a paranormal experience or just a physical experience or both, these individuals need and want to have this experience again.
That's not true with all of them.
Some folks are so paranoid that they're afraid to go into the wilderness again.
And we're talking about seasoned hunters.
We're talking about avid outdoorsmen.
But many of them become researchers because they need to understand what they've experienced and they want to know more about it.
So it absolutely does have a profound effect.
I mean, it's 100% life-changing regardless of what that person's actions is after the experience.
Why do you think, and this is one for either of you in just the couple of minutes that we've got in this segment, why do you think, bearing in mind they know so much and they're not entirely against us, they don't think much of the way that we live our lives, why don't they engage with us more?
Why don't they come into our world and explain some of the things that we perhaps sorely need to know?
Well, we were just talking about this, whether or not the phenomena is rare.
And I happen to think that this is not a rare phenomena.
The deep interaction stuff, I think, is probably what's rare.
The speaking about the interaction and let alone just the sighting of these things is somewhat rare due to the stigma.
You know, we think that people are having Sasquatch experiences far more than they're having mountain lion experiences, maybe even bear experiences.
They're just, it's such a prevalent issue here.
The population doesn't seem to be slowing down or growing down.
I don't even know if we're encroaching on their wilderness, to be honest, to the degree that people talk about.
Certainly out here in the Pacific Northwest, you don't see a lot of evidence of that.
There's plenty of area for them to elude us, yet they seem to want to make contact.
And yet, behaving as we do with our world, which we build on, we don't treat particularly well.
I don't think you have to be a Philadelphia lawyer to know that.
Unless we learn some lessons and maybe from them, we're going to ruin the world that they exist in, surely.
Well, that is true, yes, and certainly.
And you can see evidence of that, of course, as well.
You know, and they seem to be remarkable at picking up trash after us because a lot of these gifts that they bring people look as though they've, you know, rummaged through an old trash pile that they've found out in the forest.
So maybe that's a little nod that we need to be more good stewards.
So, Brett and Tob, there is talk of the vocalizations, these mysterious noises that Bigfoot Sasquatch, whatever you want to call it, makes.
There is one account of a vocalization that is so powerful that it makes the person's body tingle.
You know, these are quite a phenomenon in themselves.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, the vocalizations are, you know, it's very hard for most people to understand what a Sasquatch vocalization may sound like.
But beyond vocalizations is the feeling that you have penetrating through your body.
Most witnesses will say, I felt the sound as much as I heard the sound.
And they're not appreciating it from what is called spectrogram, where you can actually see visually where these sounds lie on the spectrogram meter, which is kind of like a sonar detector.
It shows how impossible these sounds are, A, to hoax, and how they don't match anything in the data set.
But then we fast forward to or rewind to Ron Moorhead's story of Sierra Sounds or his book, Voices in the Wilderness, where, you know, these group of hunters in the high Sierras back in the 70s and beyond claimed that they had these prolonged experiences in this remote high country of the Sierra Nevadas with Sasquatch speaking to them.
And so this is where the Sierra sounds or what is known as samurai chatter initiated from was really from Ron Moorhead bringing it to the public.
So here's the deal is that if these things can make a sound, that's great.
But if they have a language, then they have a culture because there are no languages without a cultural implication.
And once you establish that they can speak and that they, they have a culture, well, we have a different kind of human, right?
We have an undocumented human roaming around with us here.
And that gets into a sticky situation.
Like, you know, how do we deal with this as humanity, you know, dealing with this idea that we've had these undocumented humans running around with us for forever?
What about the link to orbs, for example, and UFOs that are frequently connected with orbs and glowing balls that appear in the sky?
You make that link very clearly in the documentary.
Yeah.
Go ahead, Brett.
Yeah, Dr. Simeon Hine really does a great job of trying to connect this with the science.
And the science is complex because it's based on quantum physics.
I think there's a lot of theories as to what's going on.
I mean, one of the theories is that there's a lot of electromagnetic energy that is occurring in these situations.
One of the most common situations is for batteries to drain.
Whether a researcher is utilizing a camera or a FLIR device or something of that nature, night vision, it happens quite often.
Now, with that being said, we have never had that happen.
We've had some interesting technical issues.
We've had some strange stuff appear on camera that we highlight in the documentary.
But it seems as if they're able to kind of pull the electricity out of the air and utilize it.
There is a lovely quote, and I forget who in the documentary it was from, one of your scientific contributors, and I wrote the quote down.
What seem to be constants to us are variables to them.
That's how they function in their world so much better than we function in ours.
Tob, could you address that for me?
You know, what appear to be constants in our world are mere variables to them.
Right.
That's Dr. Simeon Hine here.
I'm looking at his book on my desk, and it is a brilliant quote because, you know, that is what they seem to be able to do through flesh and blown to this vibrational interaction that they have where they can somehow seemingly vibrate themselves into view.
You know, one of the stronger points of that evidence is based upon the footprints that they leave behind.
Oftentimes, Bigfoot researchers, you know, even the Dr. Jeff Meldrum types who have looked at this through hard science, say that the footprints somehow, some way seem like they're too deep or too shallow given the substrate that they're in.
And one of the case in point to that argument is that we're finding impressions in the gravel that would push the gravel rocks down into the hard pan based upon what seemed like a footprint standing still.
Now, if that's the case, then it's kind of a smoking gun case point, data point that, A, they're vibrating at a frequency that we can't understand and can't duplicate.
That would give them, I guess, the possible interaction of coming and going as they want through different substrates.
But then again, now we're back into the world of the UFO where we have these craft that can go through water without delineating speed and without a splash for that matter.
And I think there is this crossover of what's going on in the sky and what's happening in the forest.
And the piece de resistance of the entire documentary, which appears at the end of it, and it's always difficult doing these conversations because I don't want to give away all the good stuff from this.
But it's got to be seen.
Get the documentary so that you can see this properly.
The two people who are in a van, we reference them at the beginning of this conversation, on a country road, and something appears in front of them that does much more than shape-shift.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Harold and Cody's experience was mind-blowing.
And when I first heard it, I said pretty frankly to Harold, I said, look, if Cody wasn't there with you to witness this, I don't know that we could feature this in the documentary because it's borderline absurdity, you know, when you really get into the nitty-gritty of it, I guess.
But, you know, those guys are steadfast in what they saw and they couldn't be any more credible as people.
And, you know, Harold was very forthright with me when he said, look, I didn't believe in any of this stuff, but I know what I saw and I'm willing to go on camera because human beings need to understand what's out there and what's happening.
And what happened to them was that something stepped out in front of them.
We've heard stories like this from places like Australia with Yaoi, tall and hairy, no surprise in the Bigfoot world.
What is the surprise is what this thing then morphed into, and that was effectively a square orange thing of light.
Yeah, and that's what was so strange is that it, you know, nature doesn't really work with straight lines and geometry like what they witnessed.
And it doesn't seem like it would be a very, what's the word I'm looking for?
It doesn't seem like it would be a great way to travel, in other words.
But it did go through some sort of a metamorphosis, a glowing metamorphosis that was, you know, it's really truly sci-fi in nature.
I mean, this whole incident kind of led me to believe that truth is stranger than science fiction.
And again, Brett, you have to look at their faces.
You have to look at their faces to understand the impact that this made upon them.
Quite understandably, if that happened to me while I was cycling in the park, local to me, you know, going around the trees and suddenly that happens, it is something from which you will not come back the same.
And Very much again, and that's the advantage of having pictures that you have, it's written on their faces.
It absolutely is.
It absolutely is.
And, you know, we get into the fact that Harold really wanted to memorialize this.
And so, you know, he found this really talented painter just by chance, although I believe nothing is by chance, but he found this man named Jose to do a painting, a panel painting of this incident because of the profound effect it had on him.
And I've spoken with Harold, you know, numerous times since we did the interview in August of 2022.
And he tells me every single time I talk to me, he says, look, this thing still affects me every single day.
You know, I don't know what I saw, but I know I saw it, and I know it was real.
And I just want people to understand what is going on out there.
And Brett Old Tob, either of you really, I mean, it's an amazing story and it's beautifully told.
And, you know, we get to see that painting too.
Did either of them, have either of them contemplated why whatever this was presented itself to them at that time in that place?
Why were they chosen?
You take that.
I think that's, yeah, I think that's really the number one question that they want to answer, Howard.
And I don't know that they're any closer to that than the moments after the sighting.
Clearly to me, this thing was of superior intelligence, and this thing would have absolutely had to have known that those guys were coming down the road.
And it's like, you know, Harold makes a point.
Why them?
Why there?
And, you know, he talks about what are the chances?
Billion and one, you know, two billion to one?
You know, it just seems to me like this, something like this didn't need to happen on the side of the road.
It could have happened anywhere in this, you know, heavily forested area.
So, you know, did it know that they were coming?
Was this something that had been prearranged without Harold and Cody knowing it?
You know, so I think it really asks a lot of questions as to why they were there at that moment in time to witness that spectacular sight.
Truly remarkable story, one of quite a number of remarkable stories in the documentary.
And Tob, you said at the beginning of this that some people are affected to the degree that they want to experience more of it.
Was it the case in those two people's instance where they experienced this thing that shapeshifted before their very eyes on a lonely country road?
Did they want to go back and research that some more?
Well, my understanding, Brett, you can tell me if I'm wrong here, is absolutely not.
In fact, we premiered this film in September 2023 in the little town of Vernal, Utah, just outside of Skinwalker Ranch.
And one of the guests in the show, I don't know if it was Cody.
I think it was Cody, right?
He showed up all the way from Oregon to Utah, did a day trip and just watched the documentary on his own in a private audience screening and then left.
Didn't want any publicity, didn't want any fanfare above it.
I mean, that's an incredible drive if you don't know from Oregon to Utah just to watch a two-hour doc and leave.
And this is often the case.
We have a few people in the documentary besides them that don't want anything to do with the subject matter, but yet privately, they're still hounded by this image that happened to them.
And they privately chase after this here.
And you have to wonder why.
What is it about this nagging influence of the sighting that makes you want to have another one?
And this metaphysical aspect of it, this aspect that is beyond our rational science, is something that you've definitely opened the door on in this documentary.
But it makes me wonder, both of you, maybe Brett, once you've done this documentary and you've done this research, it gives you the taste for more of it.
But I'm not sure how, other than tell a lot of others, which would be very interesting to see a lot of other stories from different people.
How do you take this forward?
Really, Howard, I think it's just, it is about telling more stories.
And it is about just showing, like Tob said earlier, how quote-unquote common this phenomena is as opposed to what you might believe in mainstream science.
What is happening is called a hidden event in sociology.
And what that means is that there are massive amounts of people, relatively speaking, across North America and across the world that are talking about this privately, but it's not being acknowledged.
It's like a secret.
It's almost like a secret society that these people are indoctrinated into.
So I think one of the things that we're going to do to answer your question is we've started doing the Ron Moorhead Sierra Sounds documentary because that's a phenomenon that folks have heard and recorded voices in other parts of North America, but not in the way that the Sierra Sounds were recorded.
I mean, there's hours and hours and hours of these things, and they've been independently verified as being authentic.
And so we believe that if we go back to the kind of the root of the story and the fact that these things, although they have these paranormal abilities, they do take a flesh and blood form, if you will, and they do communicate.
I mean, these things are not just talking to each other back and forth through their heads.
They do communicate with a language like Tob was talking about.
And so we really want to take a new and fresh look at what happened in the Sierra Mountains and really kind of dive into it.
And I also think, too, Howard, I also think that we might be able to start utilizing artificial intelligence to maybe transcribe these voices and maybe decode them for the first time in nearly 50 years.
So I think that, you know, as far as moving ahead and showing the world that these things are real, you know, we just need to find creative ways of doing it.
I suppose a scientist, not the scientists who appeared in your documentary, but scientists who work on things that are more sort of tangible, the kind of proof that they would want is the kind of proof that neither of you can deliver, isn't it?
That is the ability to go to a place and actually summon this phenomenon in a demonstrable way.
That, just like UFOs, that's, well, there are some people who say they can do that, we know that, but it doesn't seem like that's going to be possible, does it?
No, I mean, really, all you can promise is that if they look into the issue privately and kind of hound the issue, look into these sighting reports, go to places on the map that sound like they're indicative of incredible stories like Devil's Ridge or Spirit Mountain or Bigfoot Lake, these places actually exist on the map.
And this is how you initiate the issue is just by the question, can I have an experience?
Are you real?
And within, you know, I would say within the first four or five, you know, research moments that you have out in the woods, you can start to gather a little bit of evidence that adds on to a greater experience.
And this is the way you do it.
You can't really press the issue with cameras.
There is this permission slip that doesn't seem to exist with bringing cameras out into their area.
We'd experienced that ourselves where game cams would be disarmed or taken off the trees.
They seem to know precognitive what you're going to do, what your intent is.
And cameras are just certainly a no-no.
They're almost like bringing a gun in, really.
They're the same kind of equivalency.
However, audio equipment and going to what Ron captured in these sounds here, I think points to a larger story is that there seems to be this permission slip where you can record them with audio equipment.
Now, is that less tangible, less hard evidence?
I don't know that it is.
Now with AI influencing us on everything coming out through social media, we really don't know if we can believe our own eyes.
But we can measure things with by, you know, through spectrogram, understanding the science of what you're hearing.
And I think that that might be the way forward is leaning into listening to Sasquatch rather than looking for them.
And Brett, if we can establish some kind of communication with them, that is decoding their messages using artificial intelligence and maybe find a more efficient and regular way of communicating with them.
It's an intriguing thought and that's all it is, that perhaps we might open the door to understanding what it is about their world, their universe, you know, the place that they inhabit.
Perhaps they will be able, if we're able to have that two-way conversation, they will be able to show us some secrets, some things that will really blow our minds and, you know, blow the doors off.
Yes, absolutely.
And, you know, honestly, Howard, that's occurring already.
And it's occurring with folks like Arla Williams, who we feature in the documentary.
And she has some on her land that she communicates with.
And, you know, Arla could tell you a great deal about these things.
I mean, we could do a whole documentary on her experiences going back to, I think she's in her mid to late 60s now, and her experiences go all the way back to her childhood.
I think her first sighting was at five or six years old.
And, you know, I mean, she gives an example, not in the documentary, but she gave an example when we were out interviewing her of her garden was basically being taken over by the Sasquatch.
They would come and they would just kind of take whatever they wanted.
And so she went out, she went out and she kind of just spoke into the woods and she said, look, you know, this food's for me and, you know, and my husband, and we need to be able to eat it.
So I want you to eat two, but take half.
And from that point forward, that's exactly what they did.
They took half of the food as she specified.
But going a little bit deeper down the rabbit hole, we've had a number of reports that the U.S. military, and this is going to sound very conspiracy-esque, if you will.
We've heard a number of reports that there's been active communication with the U.S. military, kind of along the same lines as the communication that's starting to come out with slow disclosure with extraterrestrials and U.S. military.
Whether or not that's occurring in other parts of the world, I don't know.
We haven't heard a lot about that.
And what is the tenor of communication?
Sorry to jump in.
What is the tenor of that?
Is it get off our land?
What is it?
It can be.
It can be.
Most of it is, you know, like with Arla and some of these people that have had these habituation scenarios, it's been a variety of different things.
It's been sharing knowledge.
It's just been a mutual respect for one another.
You know, I've heard wild theories, you know, in regards to their work with the U.S. military from everything from nuclear to, you know, other types of technology sharing.
So, you know, it all depends.
I mean, Tob and I have about heard it all from various resources, you know, including, you know, kind of the standard, you know, outsider's impression of Bigfoot being this wild and crazy beast that kind of runs through the forest, destroying things and, you know, causing havoc.
We've heard those explanations too.
So, you know, like I say to a lot of people out there, I said these things are just like people.
I mean, they have varying different degrees of personalities.
They seem to vary by region of North America.
So there's, I mean, just such a tremendous amount to learn about them.
I love this documentary.
You resist the temptation to use flash cuts and gee whiz.
You don't do that.
You let the people tell their story and you let the visuals tell their story too.
And I think that is very much to your credit.
So, Toby, my last question to you then, Toby, if you don't mind, What do you think?
Maybe this is the hardest question of all.
I'm not sure.
What's the takeaway point?
If there's one takeaway point that you would hope that your audience would get from this, what might that be?
Well, that Sasquatch is a land spirit.
It is of the land.
It is of the spirit.
But so are we.
What we do in death, they do in living.
And that is how you kind of figure out what you're messing with here.
Now, in looking at this issue, looking into the abyss, the abyss will look back at you.
And sometimes other things will look back at you as well.
This isn't only connected to Sasquatch.
So there is a bit of hesitancy talking to people, looking into the subject matter because of all the other phenomena that seem to enter and exit through the Bigfoot door.
So I say proceed with caution, keep an open mind, and never get so obsessed with this that you kind of lose your mind or lose yourself or lose the loved ones around you.
There is a darker tale to this Sasquatch story, and it has to do with the human element and ego.
We haven't really had time to get into that, but this is a beautiful subject matter if you let it be.
It's a beautiful documentary, A Flash of Beauty.
Paranormal Bigfoot is it.
Brett, how do we get it?
People listening to this now, if they want to be able to see this, where would they go?
The best way to find it is on Amazon, especially in the UK.
We've had a number of folks reach out to us in the UK that love seeing this film.
It's also available on Amazon in North America and virtually on, I should say virtually around the world on Amazon as well.
We've had a number of people reach out to us from Australia, from New Zealand even.
So that's the best way to find it.
If you can't find it for some reason in your country, your area, then connect with us on Facebook.
If you go to a Flash of Beauty Bigfoot Revealed on Facebook, you should be able to find and join our page.
We also have quite a YouTube presence as well.
And you can contact us through either of those pages.
And we try and do our best to respond to every single message.
So let us know if you can't find it.
Tob Johnson, Brett Eichenberger, only one word to say to both of you really at the back end of this.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Howard.
Appreciate it.
I really enjoyed that conversation.
I hope you did too.
Tob Johnson, Brett Eichenberger, the documentary is A Flash of Beauty Paranormal Bigfoot.
And I loved every moment of it.
And I definitely recommend it to you if you like that kind of thing.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of the Unexplained.
So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online.
Please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and please stay in touch.
And by the way, if you've made a donation to The Unexplained recently, thank you very, very much for doing that.
And if you haven't, please consider doing so.
All right.
Thanks very much.
Take care.
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