The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 790 - Hawaii Ghosts, Neuralink And UAPs

Feb. 9, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

42:02

Edition 790 - Hawaii Ghosts, Neuralink And UAPs

Four guests from a recent radio show... Ghost investigator Lopaka Kapanui on the "Nightmarchers", Larry Magid on Elon Musk's Neuralink progress, a UAP update from Philip Mantle at Flying Disk Press... Plus Malcolm Robinson on haunted pubs and a new and exciting Loch Ness Monster expedition for 2024...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This is the Unexplained.
	Hoping that everything is good with you in your world and thank you very much for all of the emails wherever you are in the world.
	My thoughts are with you and thank you for telling me your story about your journey through life.
	And some of you say that this show has affected you or helped you in some way and that really makes me feel that it's been worth doing for these last 18 years.
	I'm going to keep this very brief for a reason.
	The weather at the moment is playing games with us again.
	In some parts of the UK, it's very, very cold and incredible amounts of snow at the moment outside my window.
	I'm just looking.
	You probably heard me disappear for a second.
	Or get quieter.
	Yes.
	I'm just looking just to confirm that we've got heavy rain that looks a bit sleety out there.
	So it is not pleasant, not exactly cold, but that's the way things are looking here at this particular juncture in February.
	I'm not going to say any more about that.
	One of the emails that I had recently, and it was only one email, told me that basically they didn't want to hear me talking about the weather, anything to do with me.
	They just wanted me to say, hi, here's the show.
	Here's the guest.
	Now, from a personal perspective, I get that.
	And it would be easier for me to just say, hello, this is the unexplained.
	Here's Joe Smith, and we're going to talk about ghosts.
	Joe Smith, tell me all about ghosts, and then just shut up and do that.
	I don't know whether that makes it a presentation anymore.
	I think one of the things about this show has always been that it's a personal thing.
	And I am the first person to understand because I worked in commercial radio for years and have worked in commercial radio for years.
	And you have to be as good as you can be, as honest as you can be, and then carry on, I think is the thing.
	But this was one suggestion that I drop any details of weather, anything that's happening here, anything that is relevant to the time that I'm recording it.
	If that's what you want, and over the years you've told me it isn't, but please let me know because I wouldn't want to be going on in ignorance here, doing something that isn't required, isn't wanted, that all you really want is me to say, this is the unexplained, I'm Howard Hughes.
	Here's Joe Smith talking about ghosts.
	So, you know, if you want to, you can email me through the website, theunexplained.tv, and just mention what you're emailing about in the subject line.
	We'll take it from there.
	Okay, thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his ongoing hard work on the show.
	Thanks, Adam.
	Four things from the show on this edition of The Unexplained, and they are these.
	Philip Mantle with an important UAP update.
	Philip Mantle, of course, my friend from Flying Disc Press.
	That'll be followed by Larry Maggid, technology broadcaster and journalist in the United States, and a man who campaigns about internet safety.
	And boy, do we need those campaigns now, don't you think?
	So Larry, old friend of mine for many, many years, will be up here second.
	A general update about the state of the internet, and more particularly, a talk about the Neuralink implant.
	You know, Elon Musk gave us the world an update about that very recently.
	So Larry is item number two.
	Item number three, Malcolm Robinson, my good friend in Scotland, paranormal investigator across the world, in fact, not just in Scotland, but originally from Scotland.
	Malcolm will be here talking about Aberdeen's most haunted pub and the Loch Ness monster.
	Two things in one here.
	He's got an update that I don't think anybody else has heard about that.
	And then the last item is somebody I had on the show years ago and I've wanted to get back on for a long time.
	On Oahu, Hawaii, Lopaka Kapanui.
	He is the go-to ghost guy there.
	What a nice man.
	What an interesting man.
	So Lopaka Kapanui, the last man on this show this week, the last person on this edition of The Unexplained.
	This particular edition, which is recapping some of the items that I had on my radio show for posterity.
	So item number one then, let's get to it.
	This is my friend Philip Mantle from Flying Disc Press and a UAP update.
	Most of the news missed this this week.
	Nick Polk told us this was going to happen.
	This dropped on John Greenwald's Black Vault website.
	A couple of days back, the Department of Defense Office of Inspector General DODOIG, led by Inspector General Robert Storch, has released an unclassified summary of a previously classified report called Evaluation of the DOD's Actions Regarding Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena.
	This disclosure follows a full version of the classified report, which of course was put out last summer.
	Inspector General Storch remarked, given the significant public interest in how the DOD is addressing UAPs, we're releasing this unclassified summary to be as transparent as possible with the American people about our oversight work on this important issue.
	One significant concern is the absence of an overarching UAP policy within the DOD.
	That means there is no assurance of identifying and mitigating potential national security and flight safety threats posed by UAPs.
	I'll say that again.
	No assurance of identifying and mitigating potential national security and flight safety threats posed by UAPs.
	The DOD OIG emphasizes the need for a unified policy to address these shortcomings.
	We have proposed 11 total recommendations to various defense bodies, including the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security and the Director of RO, the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office.
	There's more to that than I have read.
	That is all you need to know.
	Let's talk now with Philip Mantle here in the United Kingdom, get a perspective from over here.
	Philip, thank you very much for doing this.
	How are you?
	I'm fine.
	Thank you, Howard.
	Nice to speak to you.
	Good to speak with you.
	Just a quick thought about that.
	They're basically saying, well, you know, we haven't got much of a policy for collating this information and dealing with these things.
	Surely by now they should have.
	Well, I mean, it makes you wonder, doesn't it, Howard, what these people are doing, whether this is done on purpose, whether it's just being incompetence, or is it because it's, you know, a brief, we haven't got all the details.
	Are there bits missing that we're not aware of?
	And we have to remember sometimes as well, Howard, that you know, classified information, it's not always the information itself that's classified, it's how they've gathered it.
	So, you know, there may be bureaucracy in this somewhere as well.
	It all sounds like red tape.
	I mean, if you watch any of the sort of spy movies in America, it sounds like one of those.
	You know, the FBI isn't working with the CIA and the CIA won't cooperate with the FBI and the FBI overrules the local police.
	This sounds like this at the Department of Defense, you know, via the back door.
	Really confusing.
	And it doesn't give you any sense that there's any purpose here, does there, Howard?
	I mean, you know, if you were a military aviator in the US and you'd seen something or filmed something, does this kind of thing give you confidence that you actually want to report it in the first place?
	I mean, without being a conspiracy theorist and without going over the top here, does it give the population of the world confidence?
	Because America is still in the driving seat of the world's, or certainly the Western world's defense, you know, one way or another.
	As much as we like to say that we have a big part to play in it, when push comes to shove, if something big happens, we look to them.
	You know, I'm not sure that if these things are some kind of threat, we can rest too safely in our beds.
	But, you know, I await hearing more.
	I got a news release, Philip.
	It dropped two hours ago, and it came in on a couple of my email addresses with the Paradigm Research Group's heading on it, and it was laid out exactly like they lay them out.
	So I am assuming, and let's treat this with a small degree of skepticism, but he's already said this kind of thing before, about seven months ago, I think, to the Hill.
	But this news release from PRG Steve Bassett, quoting Robert F. Kennedy, independent presidential candidate, the quote is, whatever your views are on unidentified aerial phenomenon, we believe the United States government should come clean with the American people about what they know and what they've been hiding.
	Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has promised to disclose what the government knows, what they aren't sharing.
	Most importantly, if we do have knowledge and possession of beings and craft of non-human origin.
	As I say, that came through to two of my email addresses tonight from an email address that is used by the PRG, the Paradigm Research Group.
	So, you know, we'll check in with Steve Bassett on that and talk some more about it.
	But, of course, these are things that if I go back here on my phone to last year, that RFK said such things to the Hill from what I can see here a year ago.
	In fact, I've got...
	So, Philip, you know, it's all getting really interesting.
	On one level, this issue seems to be going absolutely nowhere.
	And on another level, we're still waiting with expectation.
	Just, you know, quickly before we move to other things, what do you think?
	Yeah, well, you know, he's a high-throat, high-profile, you know, person.
	And it wouldn't surprise me if, you know, if he's joined in the debate.
	He's not the first one, of course.
	You know, Bill Clinton wanted pretty much the same.
	And I believe Jimmy Carter did as well.
	So he's not going to be president.
	It's unlikely, you know.
	But we have to remember as well, Howard, you know, this year is going to be running up to the elections in the US.
	So could the UFO subject be a political football, shall we see, even for those who are not in the running to be president, like JFK Jr.
	It'll be interesting to see how this pans out, but he's not the first high-profile politician to express an interest and request more to be done.
	And it will add weight to the disclosure movement.
	Say we've got such a high-profile person on our side, so to speak.
	Yeah, because his profile, from what I'm reading in the political press, is rising as an independent.
	So, you know, we'll see what that means, if it means anything.
	And I'm just looking back over that interview that he gave on video that you can see on YouTube with the Hills video outlet, you know, the Hiller, a big political organ in the United States where he basically says, quotes, I will declassify all alien and UFO intelligence on day one.
	And of course, a lot of people commenting on that interview saying, well, previous presidents have tried to find out all they can about this.
	And there's no great evidence, as you suggested, Philip, that they have.
	Foo fighters, Philip, what do you know about Foo Fighters?
	Because they've been in the, as you might have seen, they've been in the news this week.
	An explanation from a bunch of academics for that phenomenon.
	But how would you define them?
	Yeah, I mean, it was in the Daily Telegraph, I believe, the newspaper.
	I did read it.
	And I think it's fascinating.
	You know, Foo Fighters were things seen by both the Allies and the Axis forces during the Second World War.
	They were luminosities that flew close to, you know, aircraft, military aircraft on various missions.
	And it's been reported and logged.
	I mean, I've seen, you know, official logs from the Second World War.
	So we're unaware of what Foo Fighters are, but they say some kind of plasma that for whatever reason was attracted to the aircraft in question.
	Two things is that you're trying to explain one unknown phenomenon with another unknown phenomenon, i.e.
	these mysterious plasmas.
	However, having said that, Howard, if you go to our own Ministry of Defence, Dr. Ron Haddow was the guy who was commissioned to conduct the Condine report, which was an MOD summary of what UFOs may or may not be.
	And he came out with the same conclusion.
	I think it was published in 2000.
	It was classified at the time.
	It was released under the Freedom of Information Act by Dr. David Clark.
	And it says in there that these are unknown plasmas that could cause interference with navigation communication systems of aircraft.
	And he recommended that the MOD look into this further.
	Of course, the Condine report lay in the files just gathering dust, and nothing else was done.
	So there's kind of supporting testimony, if you like, for this kind of theory.
	But again, whether they're right or not, it's nice to see that we have a group of academics, of other academics, getting involved in the subject and voicing their opinions and their research.
	The University of California, Arizona, Harvard-Smithsonian.
	We'll try and talk more about it next week.
	Also, very, very quickly, I don't know if you can just do this in 30 seconds.
	It's really hard to do that, I know, but Ireland Sunday World reported this.
	UAP researchers have identified an alleged flying saucer parked up on an island in Antarctica for possible, quotes, exploration.
	It's a simple question that may or may not have a simple answer, but do you buy into the idea that Antarctica might have been some might be some kind of base?
	There is something there that perhaps the authorities know about and they don't want us to know about.
	Yeah, the only anglions in Antarctica Howard are penguins.
	And that is it, mate.
	If you're looking for anything else, I'm sorry.
	There's penguins.
	Tell which pole is post.
	There's penguins at the North Pole and there's polar bears at the South Pole and that's it.
	I can almost hear somebody singing Pandica on the streets of London.
	Philip Mantle, listen, thank you very much indeed.
	Keep up the good work with Flying Disc with a K-Press.
	And my thanks to Philip Mantle.
	You can check out his latest publications at Flying Disc Press.
	There is always something good there.
	And of course, Philip is a diligent campaigner for many, many years and investigator on these matters.
	We will talk with him again.
	Of course, we will.
	Coming next, somebody else I've known for more than two decades now, 25 years or so, Larry Maggid, former CBS technology correspondent, campaigner on internet safety, broadcaster, and writer these days in Silicon Valley, where he lives.
	Larry and I discussed Elon Musk and the latest developments in Neuralink, the brain implants, and a number of other issues related to the internet and technology.
	So here is Larry Maggot from the last edition of the radio show.
	Larry, thank you for doing this.
	This was the biggest news story in tech this week.
	What do you make of it?
	Well, this, along with Apple releasing their new headset.
	But yeah, no, it's a big deal in not only tech, but also in medicine, because it means that people who have disabilities where they're unable to get their brain to send the signal to the part of the body that they want to move, like lifting something with their arm, theoretically can now do so by having an electronic impulse sent to that muscle or that part of the body.
	It basically deals with, helps mitigate a number of potential neurological problems.
	And you mentioned Stephen Hawking as an example, somebody who could speak normally without an aid in theory, I suppose, as a result of this type of technology.
	So it's a huge promising.
	Look, I have my criticisms of Elon.
	I'm not thrilled with all of his Twitter shenanigans or X shenanigans.
	But when it comes to a lot of innovations, he's very much on top of it.
	And this is extremely impressive.
	But how far will it go, though?
	You know, I suspect you don't have to be a Philadelphia lawyer to know that it will also go into the realms eventually of enhancing maybe our capabilities, which may well be a good thing and giving us perhaps functionality that we lose as we get older.
	I know all about that.
	You know, maybe that's a good thing too.
	But this all has to be kept a check on.
	And I wonder if anybody's actually doing that.
	Well, it's a very good point.
	And it also comes at an interesting time, as we've talked about in this program in the past.
	We're in an era of generative AI and AI in general is going to enormous leaps.
	And it's really along the same lines of a technology which can be enormously beneficial, but very, very scary.
	If you think about the idea that AI could actually outmaneuver human beings and human beings could be, in a sense, controlled by a computer.
	I mean, if you've got a chip in your brain, I mean, in theory, do that mean that everybody who has one is going to want to go out and buy a Tesla because Elon Musk pumped that into their brain?
	I'm being a little bit facetious and maybe paranoid, but it's not outside of the realm of possibility.
	Do we want to trust companies to put devices in our brains that could affect our thought pattern theoretically?
	I mean, that is the issue here.
	And the other thing that I just floated when I was doing the handover with Mark, who was on before me, is the thought that as you and I have discussed before many times, Larry, this thing is here now, but it may become, when it becomes, if it becomes an enhancement technology, it may be the kind of thing that those with enough money will rush and get it.
	And the rest of us who seem to be getting poorer every single month, I certainly am, and millions of us here in the United Kingdom are, you know, we're going to be left behind in the queue.
	This means that in a dystopian future, we might have a bunch of people at the top who have loads of money, which they already have, plus super abilities and the rest of us left behind.
	That's a worry.
	It's a very legitimate worry, and it's always been the case that the wealthy have access to every new innovation, including, sadly, preferential medical treatment.
	Let's face it.
	I mean, for example, if you're wealthy enough in America, you can't buy your way to the top of a list of organ recipients, but you can apply to every state in the country and fly somewhere, or for that matter, another country, on a private ambulance and get that service as billionaires have done in the past.
	And so there's all sorts of ways in which wealthy people will have benefits.
	And I'm sure this is one of them.
	And it's one of the reasons why politicians need to think about this.
	I mean, I used to be kind of libertarian when it came to tech regulations, and I'm no Longer thinking that way.
	I think governments have a role in regulating tech to make sure that things are fair and unbiased and for the benefit of the people.
	Not to say you can't, shouldn't be able to make money or charge money.
	But when it comes to life-saving technology, I would love to see this available to everyone who needs it.
	And of course, Musk is not going to be the only kid in town on this stuff because I read also this week that China is developing something similar.
	China is, France is, it's going to be a global phenomenon.
	And, you know, this is why, I mean, sorry for the shameless plug, but this is why I started Connect Safely.
	Not because I had any odd thought about Neuralinks, but I thought many years ago that we have to have a watchdog on technology in a way to give people the tools they need to navigate the technology so that it works in their favor and not against them.
	Okay.
	Facebook, I understand, is 20 years old today or thereabouts.
	And Mark Zuckerberg, astonishing, and I don't think it made too big news here, and I think it should have.
	He was pushed very vigorously at a big hearing for tech bosses to answer to lawmakers.
	He was pressed by a man called Senator Josh Hawley very hard to turn round in the session, in the hearing, address the families of those who suffered online harm and effectively apologize to them.
	Now, I'm not going to play that sound because the microphones weren't facing that way, so nobody really got it properly in a way that you could put on radio.
	You can just about hear it, but I'm not going to inflict that on people.
	But he did turn around and he did apologize.
	Significant, don't you think?
	He apologized, but the way he said it was, I'm not saying it's my fault.
	I'm saying that I'm sorry that it happened, you know, and that I'm doing everything I can to prevent it.
	So it's sort of like being General Motors saying, I'm really sorry that you had a car crash, but it wasn't our fault, but we're going to make airbags better.
	So if it happens again, you know, you're less likely to get injured.
	So it was kind of an apology.
	But, you know, there was also, it was a gotcha question.
	And I have mixed feelings about this whole way in which Congress is approaching.
	I don't know.
	You know, I think it's the same thing in your parliament, the way legislators want to kind of get the guy on the other side, whether it's a witness like Mark Zuckerberg or somebody from the other party.
	And it was one of those moments.
	But look, he at least said the right thing, and I give him some credit for that.
	And he certainly, Josh Hawley, that is, the senator, haranged him in a way that I've very, very rarely seen in any, you know, in any public forum of that kind.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	No, it was.
	It was, he was very aggressive.
	And the problem with these Senate hearings, they also asked for yes and no answers.
	And, you know, this is nuanced.
	And by the way, Howard, I should point out that Tuesday everywhere in the world, especially in the UK and the United States, is Safer Internet Day, February 6th.
	It's when the world is supposed to take a little break or take a moment to think about internet safety.
	Now, Connect Safely runs it in the U.S. There are groups called Child International in the UK and Southwestern for Learning in the UK that run their programs.
	But our programs, although they're aimed at the U.S., are designed for anyone in the world.
	And anybody who goes to connectsafely.org now will see on the front page links to Safer Internet Day and resources and videos and parent guides, most of which apply to folks in your country as well.
	So I would urge you to check out connectsafely.org's resources, but also Child International and the other organizations, wonderful organizations in the UK that are doing this work as well.
	And your organization is Connect Safely, isn't it?
	ConnectSafely.org.org.
	ConnectSafely.org.
	Thank you to Larry Maggott.
	And as you heard, you can check out his work online there.
	There will be much to talk about.
	And the big question being, how far should the interface between ourselves and technology go?
	Maybe it is a train that is unstoppable and that nothing that we say or do and any attempts at regulation will be fruitless.
	It will progress as it will progress.
	We'll see.
	Next item, Malcolm Robinson.
	He is a man, of course, for many, many years, has investigated paranormal happenings, UFOs, ghosts, and many other things in Scotland and around the United Kingdom and around the world for that matter.
	Malcolm, of course, was on the cruise last year, The Unexplained Live.
	I caught up with Malcolm about a couple of things, including the Loch Ness Monster, but we spoke first about Aberdeen's most haunted pub, as reported by a number of newspapers a week or two ago.
	Here's Malcolm Robinson.
	From Unexplained Mysteries this week, is this Aberdeen's most haunted pub?
	Regular customers and staff members have shared encounters with the paranormal at the Old King's Highway.
	It opened in 1714.
	It's widely considered to be the city's most haunted pub.
	A former employee who worked at the pub in the 90s recalled using the facilities one day during a particularly hot summer day, only to find the cubicle in the loo was freezing cold for no apparent reason.
	In the corner of my eye, I saw a white shadow.
	I could have sworn it was a young girl, they wrote.
	To this day, I've never gone back into that toilet.
	Otherwise, others, meanwhile, have had possible physical interactions with the pub's ghostly inhabitants.
	We're always up for something like that.
	Malcolm Robinson is here, my good friend, international author, founder of Strange Phenomena Investigations, or SPI.
	Malcolm, nice to talk with you.
	How are you?
	A very good evening, Howard.
	I'm very well indeed, sir.
	It's always nice to be back on your show.
	What is it with Scottish pubs being particularly chillingly haunted, including this one in Aberdeen?
	Well, I mean, obviously, it's not idemic to Scotland as a whole.
	We have haunted pubs the length and breadth of the United Kingdom, but clearly the Old King's Highway in Aberdeen has been making quite a stir in the Scottish press over the past few weeks.
	And as I say, it doesn't stand alone.
	You mentioned earlier there about some of the things that's been transpiring in that.
	I mean, there have been a whole range of paranormal phenomena.
	This actual establishment actually opened its doors to the public way back in 1714.
	And since then, you know, the staff members have been experiencing ghostly shadows.
	They've had taps on their shoulder when nobody's been there.
	They've had their names being called.
	There have been a pot of paper clips that was seen to fly off a desk.
	And the traditional lights flickering on and off has been a facet of this haunted pub as well.
	It was actually investigated, I should state for the record, it was investigated by the Wonderful Group, East of Scotland Paranormal Group, and they've been doing a number of investigations, not just in Noel Kings Highway, but various other haunted locations throughout Scotland.
	But yeah, I mean, it's consistent.
	It's consistent with the haunted pubs.
	And we could ask ourselves the question, why is that?
	You know, what is the reason why this is going on?
	Is it a publicity stunt?
	You know, sceptics would suggest, well, they're just trying to get people in the door.
	And it's my job and fellow investigators' jobs to sort the wheat out from the chaff and find out exactly what's going on.
	Well, and which you do quite brilliantly with all of your books, of course, of which there was one released last year that we talked about on my podcast.
	The Loch Ness Monster is of perennial interest to those of us who are interested in these things.
	And there's never a week goes by without a story.
	There was one in the Metro.
	A tourist has poured cold water on the idea that the monster of the deep is green.
	Jared Strong says he was flawed after spotting Nessie, and it turned out it is in fact dark grey.
	Okay, well, this is assuming that it exists.
	The latest official sighting happened on the 21st of October last year, but was only recorded officially on the 24th of January this year.
	Jared was close to Urquhart Castle on the banks of the Loch near Inverness when he allegedly spied a Verbist.
	It now means there were 10 so-called sightings in 2023, the highest number since 2020.
	I don't know whether you can say much about this, but when we spoke on the unexplained cruise at the back end of last year, which seems like a million years ago now, but in fact a couple of months ago, you said that you might be getting involved in something to do with Nessie this year.
	Are you able to tell me any more?
	I can tell you a little bit more, Howard.
	It all depends on financial details, etc., and sponsorship.
	But the main aim of what we are trying to do in 2024 is as follows.
	And that comprises of we now have a boat enabled with the best sophisticated sonar and lifting gear, etc.
	We've got that, we've got a crew, and we aim to traverse up and down Loch Ness.
	We also hope to have a small remote submersible.
	Now, the idea, and it is a bit fanciful, but you know, why not?
	The idea is to lower a cage or a large net with fish puree, you know, like mashed off fish, etc., and just descend that into the depths of the loch.
	Surrounding that will be a submersible submarine with video cameras.
	Now, we do expect obviously we probably will get fish and eels, etc.
	It's not just at one location of the loch.
	We'll do that in Vermoriston, Johnny Drocket, Fort Augustus, etc.
	And who knows, you know, maybe, just maybe, we might get something else other than fish and eels nibbling at this big net of fish beauty.
	So it's we that the bottom line is many, many people are looking for Nessie above the waters.
	We want to go below the waters into its own habitat.
	Needless to say, I do believe that there's something in Loch Ness.
	It's not a monster.
	It's not a plesiosaur of that nature.
	But we have to remember, and your readers and your listeners should remember, that the celiocant fish, which was an ancient fish, prehistoric fish, was found alive off the coast of Madagascar in 1938.
	This prehistoric fish.
	So it's not within the bounds of reason that something strange is ongoing in Loch Nets.
	Yeah.
	Keep me posted, Malcolm Robinson.
	If people want to check you out online, where might they go?
	Yeah, if you go to my Facebook page, you'll find out a little bit more about our society.
	We have the Scottish UF1 Paranormal Conference ongoing in June the 17th in Glasgow University.
	It would be nice to get some of your listeners there as well.
	Malcolm Robinson, thank you to Malcolm for being a good friend to this show.
	Check him out online.
	Malcolm Robinson is his name.
	And I certainly look forward to finding out more about that Loch Ness monster.
	Hunt?
	Well, certainly investigation.
	A new initiative on that is always interesting and will always make the newspapers.
	Last on this edition, but by no means least, is from my radio show Lopaka Kapanui.
	He was on the show a few years ago when technology wasn't quite as good as it is at the moment, so you could tell that it was a conversation that was recorded, I think, as a Skype call in those days using the technology of the time.
	Things have improved now and the sound quality is better.
	I speak here with Lopaka Kapanui about the story that ran in some newspapers, including the New York Post, about so-called night marches.
	Very terrifying ghostly presences that appear and are seen by many, many people at all positions in society, as they say, in and around Hawaii.
	So, Lepaka Kapanui is based on Oahu, and I caught up with him last Sunday as I record these words to talk about night marches and other ghostly occurrences in and around Hawaii.
	They are the spirits of warrior chiefs whose job it was in life to form a long procession, sometimes 20 abreast, in front of another chief that was so high-ranking that in their presence, you couldn't wear clothes and you had to lie face down.
	You couldn't look at them.
	If you did, you'd be killed.
	Right.
	So what were they there to do?
	What was their role?
	Protection.
	Protection.
	And sometimes to circumnavigate each island, collecting tax and tribute.
	And on some nights, we have just the march of spirits.
	And on the night of no moon, it's the march of all the gods In our pantheon.
	So, in ancient times, no one could be out and about, and you had to keep your animals and your children quiet.
	If one peep was made, that household would be found and they would be completely wiped out.
	How awful.
	I mean, it's such a laid-back place, it's hard to imagine such things happening, but we know that they did in history.
	So, these were very tough, iron-willed people of power, people of strength, more than power, people of strength.
	Do you think that that is what it is about them that has made them return and made people report seeing them, rather like the person, I know it's from a few years ago, but it's made the papers again, rather like the person that I've been talking about in the story the newspapers here and in America have been running?
	Yeah, essentially, in ancient times, and probably the same thing for your ancient culture too, your job was your job all the time.
	So there's no nine to five, no vacation, no weekend off.
	It's what you did all the time.
	Your job was also passed down in your family.
	And so this is what the night marchers are, essentially still doing the same thing they did in life, but now in the afterlife, like cognitive spirits, you know, that know they're dead.
	They know there's a point they can't move beyond, but they're very aware of the living.
	And in the case of night marchers, they can interact with them if you don't do what you're supposed to do.
	Are they regularly seen and experienced by people?
	Here's the thing.
	What I find interesting is the reason this is not lore or myth or fable is because I personally know people who work in the governor's office who've seen night marchers, persons who work for the state attorney general, people who've been educated and have the kind of lifestyle that doesn't allow them to believe in things like this, but yet they've had this experience.
	So in that capacity, that tells me there's something happening.
	And a whole bunch of questions in one here.
	To those people who've experienced them, how do they look and how do they make the person who's experiencing them feel?
	Is there awareness on both sides?
	Is the person who's seeing this aware of what he or she is seeing?
	And is the night marcher aware of the human being in this dimension that they're contacting with, connecting to?
	You know, for that brief second that the living person gets to see them, they realize what's happening.
	And of course, they have to hide their face.
	Even a police officer, a friend of mine, when I was teaching at a charter school, told me when he saw it on duty as a police officer in this park in Waikiki, he said it was so, so vivid.
	He could see the sheen of sweat on the skin.
	He could see the detail in the feathered helmets and the capes, how red the torchlights were.
	And just, he said it was a lot more real than what real is, you know, you and I talking, seeing what color clothes we're wearing, you know, the color of our flesh, but just 10 times more vivid, if that makes any sense.
	And then they do what they have to do, hide the face, lie face down.
	In fact, I'm going to go further to say that people have told me the night marches are coming.
	They do what they're supposed to do, not look.
	And they said, you know, I have a sense that the procession has already passed.
	And one woman said when that happened to her, she just looked up.
	And she said, toward the end of that procession, she saw the spirits of Hawaiian people in military uniform from as far back as the Civil War, the two world wars, Korea, Vietnam, you know, the Middle East.
	There was a great story that I was told when I was on Maui for that one beautiful week.
	Back in 1996, unfortunately, Lopaka, a long time ago now.
	But I will never, as long as I draw breath, forget it.
	And the story was about, and you can tell me whether this was a true story.
	The person who told me this swore that it was true.
	About a golf course that had been built.
	And you get a lot of Japanese tourists there, a lot of American tourists there, and some Brits as well.
	But this was a Japanese tourist who went to play golf and was scared off the golf course by warriors who rose up from the golf course.
	Is that a true story?
	That's a true story.
	That golf course is built over a mass burial of ancient Hawaiian remains.
	It was controversial when it was being built and still controversial now.
	And there's a known night marchers procession that goes through that golf course, and they appear during the day too.
	As long as their particular moon phase is in play, they will make an appearance day or night.
	Do they appear more at times of crisis?
	You've had some crises there.
	You've had eruptions there.
	You've had weather problems there.
	Are they reported more at those times?
	They basically appear during their particular moon phase.
	So if it so happens the volcano is erupting and they're there, it's sort of a, I don't want to say a coincidence.
	It's just, it's their appearance and the volcano just happens to be erupting.
	There just happens to be a tidal wave or a hurricane.
	What's the spookiest thing that you've experienced?
	I hate using that word spooky.
	I know it won't appeal to you.
	I'm trying to think of another one.
	But, you know, what is the weirdest thing that you've experienced?
	Two things.
	The first thing is there's this place on the windward side of my island called Kionole Road.
	And back in the early 2000s, I had about 40 people and we parked the bus.
	We're walking up this road that's no longer used, you know, canopy of trees covering it.
	And all of a sudden, we hear the drums, the conchelles, the chanting.
	We see the glow of torchlights coming down the road.
	And I yell at the entire group of 40 people, get back to the bus now.
	Go back.
	And everybody knows what it is.
	And they're saying, oh my God, night marchers.
	So the peril of the whole thing is I have to be the last person to get on the bus.
	And I have to make sure these 40 people get on before me.
	As we're running toward the bus, the bus driver's got his head down in his arms in the steering wheel.
	He looks up and his facial expression was priceless.
	It was just pure horror.
	And he put the bus in reverse and started leaving without us.
	So I can't really blame him, but I think he should have been Doing his duty on that day.
	So that was pretty damn scary for all of those people who were there at that time and for you too, I'm guessing.
	And what was the second one, the second occurrence?
	The second occurrence was when I first began taking this thing over for my late boss, Glenn Grants.
	And we stopped at a strip mall and we're talking about a ghost with no face.
	And as I was talking about it before we got off the bus, I have a good talent at noticing people in the group.
	So I think we had 35 people.
	The short story is when we're done, we get back on the bus and the bus is taking off.
	And I told the bus driver to stop.
	And I asked everybody, oh, we have to go back.
	And they're looking at me, go back for what?
	I said, that young Japanese girl, she was wearing a black sweater, a white blouse, pearl necklace, and black slacks.
	And everybody said, no, there wasn't anybody like that.
	I said, no, she was here from the time we started.
	And I swear to you, before we got on the bus when it started, you know, I talked to her.
	I said hello.
	I asked her who her name was.
	Her name was Claire, where she lived, what she did.
	Very, very detailed.
	And no one saw her.
	And she was not, it turns out she was not on the list.
	She didn't make a reservation.
	And no one appeared to you.
	I wonder who she was.
	We'll never know, perhaps.
	Well, it turns out this bus that we used and they failed to tell the owners.
	During that time, there was a slew of hit and runs.
	So people in this particular area of Oahu were being run over.
	And everybody described the driver driving the bus, driving it at 80 miles an hour and talking on his phone.
	And so the owners of the bus company didn't tell us that this was the bus that was doing that.
	And Claire, the Japanese girl, was she hit?
	She was one of them.
	Oh, what a story.
	Well, may she rest in peace, Lopaka.
	And may you have a good and peaceful Sunday, because I know that you've got, because of that time difference thing, you've got all of Sunday still to go, haven't you?
	Absolutely.
	I have to go and tell ghost stories at one o'clock.
	Oh, boy.
	Okay, well, as we're recording this, that's not too far away.
	Lopaka Kapanui, I hope we speak again.
	And what do people say for goodbye?
	I've forgotten on Hawaii.
	We say ahuiho, which means we will meet again.
	A lot of the elders don't use aloha as a goodbye because aloha means we'll never see each other again.
	That's it.
	We don't want that.
	Ahuiho.
	Lopaka Kapanui on Oahu, Hawaii.
	Before that, Malcolm Robinson, before that, Larry Maggot, and before that, Philip Mantle.
	We have more great guests on the unexplained coming soon.
	So until we meet again, and hopefully the winter is well on the way up by that time, but here I am talking about the weather again, please stay safe.
	Please stay calm.
	And above all, please, you know, stay in touch.
	When you get in touch, tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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