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Feb. 9, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
51:35
Edition 791 - Dr Kathleen Ball
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes.
This is the Unexplained.
Thank you for being part of my show.
The weather in London remains changeable.
That is all I'm going to say.
It can either be very cold or it can be remarkably like spring.
No more weather talk.
Thank you to you for all of your emails, for getting them to me.
Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his continued hard work.
Did that pretty quick, eh?
The subject on this edition of The Unexplained is the subject, and I have to say, to my shame, I don't know very much about it and them.
The Knights Templar and their history.
Now, I know that listening to this will be a lot of people who are very, very into history and very into this part of history.
So I suspect you are going to know more than me about this subject.
All I do know is that as far as I know, the Knights Templar made their presence felt in places like Yorkshire and north of London.
I think, is it Hemble-Hempstead area?
Known in that area, known in France, known in Portugal, known in the Holy Land area.
But the person we're going to talk with is going to tell you and me that they also made their presence felt, although unknown until now, in South America, in Brazil, but not only there.
This person has written a lot about this, made films, written a book about this, and her name is Dr. Kathleen Ball.
So a different subject for me.
I'm going to do some learning here, just to say that the quality of the connection, the sound quality, is not as good as the usual.
So if you find that a problem, I totally understand.
And please, just tune out and the other podcasts will give you higher quality.
I can understand what is being said.
I've tested the line.
So that is the way we're going to do it.
Please check out my Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with How It Used.
My website is theunexplained.tv.
Let's get to the United States now then.
Dr. Kathleen Ball and the unknown part of the Knight Templar.
Kathleen Ball, thank you very much for doing this.
How are you?
Oh, I'm wonderful.
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
I have absolutely no knowledge of you at all other than your great biography and the first line of which says that you're a researcher, traveler, and explorer of ancient sites.
I'm sure there's much more to it.
Maybe you could tell us.
This whole thing with the cave, you know, that I discovered in 2015, everything really was sort of jump-started in my life.
I had a lot of, you know, spiritual experiences as a child and, you know, through my teens and things, but really intensified my connection with source, whatever, I'm not sure what you want to call it, but when I had a near-death experience on March 11th, 1990, which has been just almost 34 years ago.
And after that experience, I mean, just all sorts of synchronicities happened all the time.
And, well, okay, so I had been studying, researching the Knights Templar as a result of many other studies and research that I had been doing in ancient mystical belief systems, spiritual belief systems after studying world religions.
So this is where the rabbit hole was taking me.
And I found the Templars.
I found something on the Templars back in the 90s when I was studying Kabbalah.
And I just happened to find something about the Templars and was fascinated with this group.
I knew that there were many, many esoteric groups, organizations that have what I believe brought, you know, the esoteric and mysticism forward throughout history.
But I had never heard of the Templars.
So I was just really intrigued with this group, but I could find bare, I mean, next to nothing on them.
There just wasn't much out.
You know, I did read a couple of books, Lynn Picknett and Prince, or Clyde Prince.
That was an eye-opener.
And then, of course, you know, Dan Brown's novel came out, which just lets you the doors wide open on all of this stuff.
It put esoteric beliefs in everyone's living room, basically.
And then when the film came out in 2006, I was in Rome when that came out and there was a huge backlash.
The Catholic Church actually, they tried to sue Dan Brown to keep it from, keep that film from ever being seen.
So that really made me curious because why were they putting so much effort and money into shutting this guy down?
What were they not wanting the public to know?
And that really got me on a, you know, on my, all my red flags went up and I said, okay, I really have to find out about these guys, the Templars, and this whole idea of a floodline with Mary Magdalene.
So that's kind of what, you know, what, how I sort of evolved into this research.
Up until then, I had really been more involved in ancient sites, specifically all over the world.
Where did you go?
I had been to Egypt and I had been to India.
And well, no, actually, not at that time.
I hadn't been there.
I had been to Machu Picchu and I had done a lot of, I'd been on a lot of archaeological digs to Petroclyph sites and, you know, all through France and Spain and North America.
And, you know, I was studying indigenous cultures at that point and their indigenous belief systems.
And those are what I found those to be the core or the roots of all the other religions that I was studying.
So that kind of, you know, helped me to push forward into the Masons and the Pauli desion and, you know, some of these other mystical organizations.
So, in 2009, this is what really jump-started this whole, you know, my real, real serious interest in the Templar, and that I really, there was really something there that I could, you know, that I could really sink my teeth into.
My husband and I were in France, and we were there on our honeymoon, and our travel agent had booked us on just this impossible great race.
That's all I can say.
And so we canceled the plans, but I had to go up to Dôme, France, to find an internet cafe to cancel the plans.
So we were in Dôme, France, and there's a grotto there that there's some pictographs, and it's just, it wasn't real impressive.
But anyway, we went in and we were coming up and the curator from this little museum comes up to me and he says, Madame, do you know anything about the Templars?
And I said, yeah, I do.
And he says, would you like to see the dungeon where they were held before they died, before they were murdered?
And I said, absolutely, I'd love to.
So he hands me the keys to the dungeon and walks us over there and tells me, bring the keys back when I'm done.
So this was really big for me.
So I go into the dungeon and it was a real interesting space because I'm so sensitive to energy.
I was picking up on just a lot of energies in the space from the Templars.
It was everything from despair to peace.
And it actually brought me to tears in a few moments because I just felt their despair so deeply.
But it was really interesting because it ended up into a sense of peace where I think they were really at peace with their, you know, with their imminent death at that point.
But anyway, so I photographed all the graffiti in there.
There was, you know, a number of crosses and just all sorts of things on the walls that the Templars had left.
And that, if that hadn't happened, I would have not just, I would not have recognized the cross above the cave six years later when I went into Brazil.
So a number of things happened on that trip.
I also connected with a nun in Marseille who claimed that she had been waiting for me since college.
She learned English so that when I came, she could speak with me.
She told you that she knew of you.
Yeah, she sent me on a little mini quest up to Saint-Baume in France.
And I connected with Mary Magdalene Energies and a spiritual experience took place up there.
That's going to sound pretty astonishing to people who, of course, are listening to this.
So the woman that you met, you didn't know her.
You hadn't been primed.
I've never met her.
I had never met her before.
And she said, I had been told that you were coming.
Yeah, she had some idea that I was coming and enough to where she was motivated to learn English when she was in college.
And she had to have been in her late 50s.
So she'd been waiting for me for a long time.
What was she told you were coming to do, Kathleen?
Yeah, so she asked me to come into her office, her little back office, and she drew me a map and she said, you will be instructed.
I want you to please promise me that you will go to this, you will go to this place and you will go into meditation and you will do as you're instructed.
So I did.
I did.
That's exactly what I did.
And it was a very spiritual experience.
I really felt connected to the energies of Mary Magdalene.
Turned out that this place was where she had stayed in a little grotto for somewhere between 12 and 17 years.
There's a lot of speculation on that.
But in intercessory prayer, after she had evangelized with Lazarus and Martha and Mary and the children that we believe existed were raised.
They had come to adulthood.
So this is where she went and she stayed.
And you really can, if you're sensitive to energy, you can really pick up on her energy there.
It's a very beautiful, very beautiful energy.
When would this have been?
This was in 2009.
No, no, no, no.
When would she have been there?
Oh, she would have been there right after the crucifixion when they landed.
They landed on the coast of France near Marseille, and they came into Marseille and then evangelized throughout Europe.
From what I understand, made it all the way down into the UK.
And then she went back.
She ended her life in France and the other people, Lazarus and Martha, they dispersed to different parts of the area, you know, different areas.
But she remained, she stayed in France at that time in her older years.
And do you believe that you were taken to France in order to be able to disseminate this information?
Yeah.
Well, I have just gotten so many synchronicities that have been connected to this ultimate, ultimately to this discovery.
And there's still so much more.
You know, there's still so much more.
So in 2015, when I was in Brazil, I was not there looking for Templar anything.
I was not there looking for, I was there because I had had liver cancer for four years.
And I was there to meet with a girlfriend who convinced me to come see John of God that she thought he could help her.
Okay.
That's why I was in Brazil.
Well, of course, John of God is somebody who a lot of people visited, as we know, very controversial.
But so you went out there for that reason.
You weren't looking for anything else.
I think what we need to do, just so we don't confuse people who are new to the subject, I think it's important to give an idea, and we haven't up to now, as to who the Knights Templar were.
Now, I've got to tell you that I was not a big history guy at school.
Even though I was at school in the United Kingdom, we didn't do an awful lot of ancient history.
So, what I know about them is not very much.
I believe they go back, their history goes back to what, about 1100, maybe before then.
Yeah, it's not often that I, you know, am able to do that because, you know, a lot of people do know.
But anyway, so from my research, what I've discovered is that the Knights Templar organized sometime between 1040 and 1070 in Greece originally.
And their original, there, well, original 9, 11 members, that again is controversial.
I believe that there were 11 members.
Freddie Silver agrees with me, but other people do not.
So it's somewhere between 9 and 11.
And they originated in Greece.
And I believe that these were some of the same families that were part of an organization of knights that had been organized in 600 BC by Zerarubabel to protect the builders of the temple, the second temple.
This is where my research is leading me at this point.
Anyway, so fast forward, 1090, they're in Constantinople by this time, and they're, what I believe, trying to gather mystical and esoteric documents and information to bring the, you know, bring enlightenment to Europe.
I think this was their goal.
They hooked up with Bernard de Clarau in the 1100s, and he, of course, was started the Cistercian monks, the stem of the Catholic Church, in an attempt to purify the Catholic Church from corruption.
So at least they're, you know, they're Cistercian monks of it.
So they're very, very connected to Bernard de Clavaux, who is the one that got in 11, what was it, 1128, 1129 in Jerusalem, by the time the Knights were in Jerusalem, he was the one that pitched them to the Catholic Church to get their blessing so that they could become what we, you know, what we have come down to us in history as the Knights Templar, you know, the Temple of Solomon.
So their origin is still kind of murky because all, you know, all the records, not all, but many, many, many of the records were destroyed during the Inquisition.
The Inquisition attempted to just completely obliterate all memory of the Knights Templar from the public consciousness.
But anyway, so 1190, here they are.
They're in Constantinople.
Right about that same time, the Pope has gathered this ragtag army and the Kingston of King of Constantinople had convinced him that he needed their services in Constantinople.
So here the knights are, here are these ragtag, you know, soldiers, basically starving peasants is what they were.
Many of them died before they got there.
Then from there, three years later, they ended up in Jerusalem and they've loosely formed the Knights Templar.
And so, and for the purpose, I mean, historically they say that these Templars were created, this order was created to protect the pilgrims going back and forth to Europe.
I mean, going back and forth to Jerusalem from Europe and, you know, back and forth.
However, at that point in time, there was still only 11 knights and this ragtag army.
There was no organization.
That took place after.
So I think that, you know, the Templars went into Jerusalem and they went right straight to the Temple Mount, by the way, where there remains the Temple Mount and they stayed in the, you know, in this, in the above the Temple Mount in the, I'm trying to think, where they keep the horses, the stables.
They stayed in the stables.
They didn't stay in the castle.
These are rich men.
These are men that all came from very wealthy families.
They gave up their wealth to go on this quest and this crusade.
It just doesn't make sense, you know, that they were there for gold.
Many people think that under the Temple Mount, there were lots of relics and gold and blah, blah, blah.
I think they were after family records, Phoenician maps.
And, you know, and Freddie agrees with me on this.
You know, ancient maps and that's, you know, those sort of things and relics, whatever was there.
But the first thing they did was go in, stay in the stables, not in the castle, where there were comfort.
And then they went down into the tunnels and began excavating.
And I think they may even have come away with one of the Arks of the Covenant, possibly.
I'm not sure.
I do know that they were back and forth with the king of Ethiopia.
They had a very strong relationship with the king of Ethiopia, especially in Portugal, the Templars in Portugal, because he was going back and forth to Chomar to meet with them.
And the Templars were going back and forth to Ethiopia.
So, you know, and there's a lot of, of course, awareness that it's very possible that there is an Ark of the Covenant, one of them at least, in Ethiopia.
So there's that connection.
They seem to be remarkable people, not only because of the fact that they appear to have a quest that they were on, they were very organized for the time, but also their ability and facility to travel.
As you said, France, you know, all the way back to the Holy Land and the United Kingdom, France, in the United Kingdom, they were known in Yorkshire and north of London very much.
They did have a network that was almost like the Romans, it seems to me.
Yes, well, not really.
I mean, not a conquering empire, but they had a network.
They were less aggressive as far as the population than the Romans, but they did conquer Portugal to become Portugal, because Portugal wasn't even a country.
They actually were the ones that created Portugal.
They went in, they fought the Moors, they fought Islam, pushed Islam back.
But what they did, though, which was interesting, and this is something that is, you know, that I'm very interested in about the Templars, is that when they did go into Portugal, which was in, we find records that go back as early as early 1100s, once they conquered a Moorish castle, they invited them to stay in the lands and gave them land.
The same thing with Islam.
And then they also invited when the church considered, decided that the Druids and the Celts and the Jews and everybody were heretics, they invited them into Portugal.
So here we have a nation that's made up of Christians, Jews, Islam, Moors, Druids and Celts, and whatever other indigenous cultures were already there.
And so I think, I really believe that this was their goal.
And, you know, I've talked to Timothy Hogan at length about this, that they had an intention of creating a sovereign nation of tolerance and acceptance of all cultures and belief systems.
Why did they disappear?
They never did.
They were, of course, you know, King Philip the Fair in France went after them in 1307.
So we'll get up to that in just a second.
So here they are.
They're fighting, you know, a partial, part of their membership is involved in the Crusades, but there was always an inner circle.
And they were the ones, they were the scholars, they were the mystics, they were the ones that were gathering all this, you know, this priceless genealogies and archaeological discoveries, relics, and, you know, any and maps and whatnot.
And that's what they brought back to Europe.
Okay, so in 1290, after the last war that they lost, and it wasn't just the Templars.
You know, there was the Knights Hauspitler were there.
The Order of Sion was there.
There was several orders of knights at that time.
Everyone thinks that it was just the Knights Templar in Jerusalem, but it was not.
There were numerous orders of Knights in Jerusalem fighting those crusades.
So basically when 1290 happened and they lost the last war with Islam and Islam came back in and took over the temple, took over the area, Jerusalem, et cetera, which they had had control of for since 700 AD anyway.
Then they came back to Europe.
There wasn't really a need for them.
All the kings, all the monarchs were broke at this time.
They didn't have any money.
They had spent all their money trying to take Jerusalem back.
That had failed.
The Knights at that point, the Knights Templar organization, were the richest organization in all of Europe by this time.
They taught the people in wherever they were living.
They involved the population.
They taught them animal husbandry.
They taught them, you know, they built mills.
They had massive lands.
They were the first banking system.
They developed a banking system so that people could deposit money in their, you know, deposit wherever they had at that time in Europe, say in England or in France or wherever.
And then they could go on their pilgrimage into Jerusalem, into the Holy Land, and they could meet with Templars there and have access to their money.
So this was the beginning of the first banking system that in our common history that we know of.
They were, I mean, we use the phrase globalization.
They were, in a way, globalizers.
Absolutely.
What I believe is that their intention, the global, the Templar intention, what they wanted to do was create a global organization, basically a global world of tolerance, peace.
And, you know, they thought that they had the, you know, they thought they had the best idea of how to move forward as a collective species on this planet with some peace and tolerance, religious tolerance.
They were very, you know, well, today it's referred to as bringing about a new heaven and a new earth.
I mean, that's basically the way it's described now.
And I believe that that agenda is still in place with the Templars and the Templars never went underground.
I mean, they never disappeared.
They went underground.
There's a tremendous amount of evidence now.
I've just found some records in Portugal.
I'm going to be in Portugal in two weeks that I'm going to be researching and having a friend translate for me that shows the Templars never disappeared.
They just went underground.
And they waited.
There was a prophecy that 700 years after Jacques Di Molay was burned at the stake, along with his fellow Templars, that they would come back in 700 years.
And here we are, 700 years.
I was actually at the procession in Tomar in 2019, commemorating the reorganization of the Global Templars.
So it was phenomenal.
It was absolutely phenomenal.
So, there you are for another reason in Brazil.
Obviously, you discovered there whatever you would discover, but you found yourself discovering what you believe is a site that was occupied by or visited by the Knights Templar.
And of course, the obvious question about that is, how would they have been able to travel that distance and go to Brazil of all places when we knew them in Portugal, we knew them in France, we knew them here in the UK?
Right.
Well, they had plenty of motivation, that's for sure.
In 1307, you know, they were being hunted down.
But I actually believe that they were in South America earlier than that.
They came away from the Holy Land and that whole, you know, just that whole area between Constantinople and their visit and stay in the Holy Land.
I believe they had gotten their hands on the Phoenician boat building records and the Phoenician maps.
Because what happened?
As soon as they got back to Portugal and back to Europe, but in Portugal specifically, they started building seaworthy boats.
They were the first ones to build ships, seaworthy ships, ocean, you know, oceanworthy ships.
Okay, and this is this is early on.
This is flare back to, I think, as late as, or I mean, as early as the early 1100s in the first probably decade, second decade of the 12th century.
So, okay, so what's happening?
All the kings in, all the monarchs in the 1300s are broke.
They have no money.
But the Tibblers, I believe at this time, had been traveling back and forth to South America.
They were bringing back silver and gold.
And King Dennis in Portugal is the only monarch that's got any money.
Okay, so he's still building.
He's still creating a naval force.
In fact, he's building a naval base in Paniche.
He built a naval base in Paniche.
He's still showing signs of having wealth.
Nobody can figure out where he's getting all this money.
I think that they were bringing it in for South America.
And one of the proof of that is that in 2018, when I went back into the cave to do some more research, I found out that it was a gold mine.
So the original use for this cave that I discovered in Brazil was a gold mine.
It had been hand dug.
All the tool markings were very similar to hand dug caves that I've seen in Europe and in other parts, you know, some areas in North America as well, hand tools.
And it was mined.
I mean, there was nothing left in it by the time I discovered it, but a lot of quartz crystal scattered about a half an acre in front of the mouth of the cave.
That was just, you know, riddled with quartz crystal.
But when I went there in 2015, like I said, I was not, I was there for healing to see John of God, who was, that was a joke anyway.
That was, you know, it was baloney.
The guy was, he was not.
You can, you know, just to jump in, if you want to read about that, and we're not talking about that here.
Right, right.
You can just put the name into a search engine and see what comes up.
But you were there for a reason.
Right.
So I was there for that reason.
And so here I am.
We're hiking.
We decided, okay, we'll make the best of it.
So we decided to go up into Chapata and go visit some of these waterfall sites.
They're just magnificent.
The whole area is just filled.
It's got probably 25 waterfall sites that are just magnificent.
So we hike down to Agua Fria and we come back up.
And the owner of what they call a puzzada, camping puzada, which means camping motel, hotel, he invites us to lunch and he asks us if we want to see the property, the adjacent property, where there's this huge crystal vein going through the middle of it.
It's about a meter in height, about a meter in width, and it runs about two and a half kilometers through the middle of this property.
So we, yeah, you know, of course we do.
There's crystals laying all over.
You can take some with you, blah, blah, blah.
So we go over there.
We meet with the guide.
The guide takes us about a four and a half kilometer trip.
We see this crystal vein.
It's wonderful.
We're collecting crystals.
And he says to us, it's really hot.
And he says, you want to go into this cave and rest for a little while before we go back up and we can have snacks and whatever.
So we go down towards this cave and he lifts up the branches.
And I kid you not, I just, my mouth just wide open.
And I just said to him, oh my God, what is a Templar Cross doing above this cave out in the middle of nowhere?
And he rattled off a bunch of stuff in broken Portuguese, which I got on tape and I had it translated later.
And basically what he said was that old women had gone and used this cave for prayer, meditation, and to do magic of all this.
But anyway, so I got into the cave.
It was really dark.
I got into the cave and I fumbled.
I found a little flashlight that I had, turned on the flashlight, and I'm surrounded by spiders and bats.
So I tailed it.
I got out of the cave as fast as I could, get the spiders off of me.
And I didn't go back in on that instance, but I did get to see some graffiti that looked very much like what I had seen in Dome, France.
Now, mind you, this whole experience was synchronistically, I believe that it was, I was destined to discover this cave because A, I had no intention of visiting Alta Pariso at all.
I didn't know anything about it.
B, my girlfriend, we made our hotel arrangements for Cabal Cranche, which was a town about another hour and a half away from Alta Pariso.
But she, I didn't have a driver's license with me.
She had a driver's license.
She didn't know how to drive a car with a clutch.
She went through two clutches in three hours trying to get up this site, right?
Which kept us delayed.
And so we had to stop in a closer town.
And the only one that had puzadas was Alta Pariso.
Right.
So in a way, you think, almost meant to be there.
The person who introduced you to this place as a resting place, what did he know about it other than what he told you about the fact that it might have been used for magic and it was used as a place of rest and recuperation, relaxation, whatever it might be?
Did he know himself anything about the history of it?
Why it was there?
Who'd put it there?
No, he didn't know anything.
He didn't know anything.
And, you know, I have talked to a couple people, fellow researchers.
We want to, you know, we'd like to get some DNA testing done out there on the locals, because if you look at some of these locals, they have very European, you know, characteristics, facial features and whatnot, and blue eyes, you know, green eyes and stuff like that.
I would love to do some, you know, do some DNA testing.
But anyway, but many of the other locals are familiar with Templar presence in that area.
And I did interview in my first film.
I interviewed a woman, Leona.
She was a wonderful kick in the past.
She was a great, great woman.
Anyway, she believed that the property that her great, great, great grandfather, who was a ship captain and came from Portugal after searching for gold, by the way, was an area where the Templars had claimed or colonized.
That's what she believed.
There were palm trees.
It was like a little mini paradise.
It's beautiful.
I mean, it is.
All the Pariso is just, there's mango trees and pineapple trees and palm trees and these amazing, huge avocados.
And it's just, it looks like a paradise in the middle of Brazil.
It's just bizarre.
It's really bizarre.
So in that community and around that community, are you saying that this was almost a given, a common knowledge between people that the Knights Templar had been there and were part of the scenery there?
And it's just something that we all know, but we don't really talk that much about unless somebody asks us.
Yeah.
And there was another researcher, fellow researcher that I was introduced to who is a Mason and came from a family of Templars.
And he was very, you know, he was very convinced that the Templars had been in that area enough so it was really interesting because he recreated what he called Camelot.
He created this pusada that was designed after what his vision of Camelot was, and he named it Camelot.
Anyway, he was a descendant of the Templars.
His whole family ancestry was all background was all Templar.
But he came from Portugal later.
His family came later.
But he believed that the Templars were in that area as well.
And many of the people, many of the locals that I spoke to believe the same thing that the Templars were in that area.
So Kathleen, this is a hell of a story.
I don't know what you would do next from this.
I suppose the next logical step would be to find out if they were there, then they couldn't only have been there.
They must have been somewhere else.
And I guess your next task is to find the somewhere else and try to find out what they did.
Yes.
Well, my next journey is to go back into Portugal again.
This will be my third trip to Portugal.
I have been over there, connected with the Templars over there in Tomar, and they have corroborated that my cave, my cross is definitely Templar.
And that's on my film too.
That's in the documentary.
I met with Gerald Guindiero.
He's a very connected Templar, but he's also a cross expert.
So I interviewed him.
And so I'm going back into Portugal.
And one of the main reasons I'm going back into Portugal is I found out from a source there that Paniche was the place where they left from.
I knew it was somewhere on the coast.
And my last trip there, I drove all up and down the coast trying to find the spot.
But apparently it was Paniche, and Paniche was an island at that time.
And coincidentally, King Dennis had procured funds to or and ordered a naval base that was secret built on Paniche.
So there's that.
And also there's a chapel, there's an old cathedral there that has some mason, what they call mason marks, but we now believe this was a code.
Anyway, that are the same that are in my cave.
So I'm very, very interested to see some of this stuff.
And this source is also, he's also a descendant of Templars himself and has family records that he's opening up to me, three books of family records that he is translating for me that give a great deal of history of what was going on back in the 1300s with the Templars, with his family, at least.
There are a lot of people researching history.
A lot of people research history in this world.
Have you been in touch with any of those academics and talk to them about what you found and what you want to do?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm very, you know, I stay connected with Freddie Silba, Timothy Hogan, Scott Wolter, you know, several other people.
Gretchen Cornwall is we share a lot of research, she and I. And this is brand new research.
People don't know about this.
This has never been brought to light, just as my cave had never been brought to light.
But I do believe that it is my destiny to bring these things to light, that for whatever reason, I am led to places and connect to people that give me information that, you know, just nobody gets.
So I'm following every lead that I possibly can.
I also have a source in Peru that has found some Templar relics and artifacts.
He sent me some photos showing Templar presence in Peru, which is also where there was a great deal of silver.
So that would make sense.
So anyway, I'm just following every single lead that comes down the pike.
You know, I did find out that there was also a path from another source in Portugal, that there was a path from Bahia all the way through the Amazon jungle from the Atlantic that ended on the Pacific end that was created by the Templars with the assistance of the Amazonian tribes.
So, and I've interviewed in the Amazon tribes, I've interviewed a chief and some of the Amazonian tribal members, and they're well aware that there were Europeans, and you know, their dating system isn't like ours.
It's like they can't tell you, oh, well, this happened in 1250 or 1320 or whatever.
But they can say in their past in this time and this time that this was going on in their life, you know, that's how they associate.
They don't, it's a very different mindset to, you know, our modern mindset.
Wouldn't these people have been buried somewhere, Kathleen?
If they'd lived there, if they'd made their way there, Brazil, Peru, surely they would have burial sites.
Yeah, well, this is what I'm looking for is burial sites.
I didn't find a small burial site that was not very far.
It was probably about maybe four or five kilometers, if that, from that Leonia's ranch, which I told you about, where she believes that, you know, that her great-great-grandfather had founded it, that it was a Templar location.
There is a grave site there.
But again, you know, the Templars didn't have lavish gravestones.
They, you know, very simple.
So all I've seen there are simple crosses.
I know that the cemetery itself, that the plot of land itself goes back several hundred years.
But again, we'd have to really do some excavation to prove whether or not there's actually Templars buried there.
I suspect they are, but I, you know, suspecting and proving are two different things.
So we have more research that has to happen before we can prove that.
And here comes another dumb 21st century question.
And that question is, how did they do this, if they did all of this, without getting into substantial wars and battles and bloody fights?
With the Amazonians?
Well, with anybody that they encountered.
Well, they would have been, the Amazon tribes were, you know, they were probably the biggest group of people there.
And from what I understand from my chief, that his basic ideals, their basic beliefs are very similar to some of the indigenous and the mystical belief systems that the Templars had at the heart or the core of their organization.
The Templars, when they were in Jerusalem, they got along with the, you know, they hobnobbed with the Sufis and Islam.
They learned from their inner core was very interested in learning about the esoteric and indigenous cultures.
That's why they took in the Celts and the Jews and they learned from them too.
So it just kind of stands to reason.
Timothy Hogan believes that specifically in North America, that this is exactly what happened.
And he's actually found tribes in North America that had a handshake that is the same as the Templars, which later became a Mason handshake.
So they knew each other by this.
So there had to be, you know, there had to have been Templars.
They had to have had some connection early on, much earlier than we're aware of, either with the Vikings or, you know, early Templars to develop these relationships.
And again, they were not aggressive.
They were not there for the purpose of conquering or colonizing in the sense that it's come down to us in history.
They just wanted to find places that they could reestablish what they believed was an ideal world away from the grasp of the Catholic Church.
And so this would have been, you know, this would have been acceptable to the indigenous cultures, people who wanted to live alongside them, interact with them, and not conquer them.
So, you know, I think that they were accepted and I think they had a relationship with them just as they did in the Holy Land and in Constantinople and in Portugal.
It's quite a tapestry that you sow here and have brought together.
And if this all comes together in the way that you might like, what needs to happen?
What do we need to do?
What do we need to know?
If it all does come together, we would have a beautiful world, that's for sure.
You know, I mean, that still remains to be seen, but anything that they can do to balance the forces of good and evil, however you want to describe that.
But, you know, we have we corruption is to such a level in this world right now.
It is, it's, it's like, I mean, it's like we're looking back in time at Rome before it fell, you know?
I mean, we are at that level.
We need to have some balance at least, even if it doesn't, even If the Templars don't succeed in creating a new heaven and a new earth, at least if we could have a spiritual and materialistic balance.
Otherwise, we're going to destroy ourselves on this planet.
Before you started doing this research and before you went to Brazil, were these the things that you believed?
What did I believe before I went to Brazil?
Yes, because you sound like a great advocate for the Knights Templar.
Did you know of this?
Did you believe all of this beforehand?
No.
Right.
No.
I really didn't have any idea.
I had my own, from my near-death experience in 1990, I had my own belief.
I decided that I would come back and that I would be a part of, that I would contribute everything that I could to bringing about this exquisite future.
And that, when I came out of that experience, I came back into my body, I couldn't breathe and my heart was not pumping.
And I freaked.
I was just like, oh my God, I'm trapped in a body and I'm dead, but I, you know, I can't.
Anyway, so I prayed at that point.
I want to live more than anything.
I will please, I want to live more than anything.
So slowly I started, I started to catch, I caught my first breath.
I felt my heart pumping again.
And I was just, I was just filled with a tremendous joy at that moment.
Just, I felt so grateful to be alive.
And I felt so grateful to have something, some hope for a better future.
And then I could actually be, participate in that happening, participate in that, bringing that about.
That's where you're at now.
Yeah.
This was March 11th in 1990 when I came out of this experience, when this experience happened.
And from that day forward, the synchronicity is just, I mean, all kinds of things have happened.
It's a whole program in itself of just the mystical experiences that stemmed from my sensitivity to energy, my openness to source prompts, I guess is the best way to put it.
I'll be, just for instance, just quickly, I'll mention, I was in San Francisco when I was in graduate school at this point.
And this was in the 1990s.
And I was after the near-death experience.
And I was walking to go get my lunch.
I was art department.
So I was walking to get my lunch quickly so I could get back to my studio because I was working on this huge installation.
And I come upon this young man who's sitting in a corner like many people in San Francisco.
But this, there was something different about this man.
And I knew he was young.
He was probably maybe 19, 20 years old.
And I get this prompt to go up to him and hug him.
And so I do.
I did it.
And I noticed he's like got bugs in his hair and stuff.
And I was like, oh, God.
But I get it anyway.
I hug him and he starts crying.
And then I get this prompt.
Give him every, give him all your money.
Give him all the money that you have.
Because apparently when it happened, he was out there begging and no one, it was like nobody saw him.
Hits what he told me.
He's just like, nobody saw me until you came.
And he's crying and he's sobbing.
And I take out my wallet and I give him all of my money.
And it was like $7 and something.
You know, it was just enough for my lunch.
And he burst into tears.
And he said that was the exact amount he needed to get on the BART train to get to his mother's.
So you changed his life in that moment.
Okay, that's a great story.
Listen, Katie.
I didn't change.
Just my action did, but I was just simply a conduit.
But this is what I'm talking about.
These kind of things happen to me all the time.
So the nun in France was not a surprise to me.
My husband was surprised.
He was not surprised.
Well, my belief about life is that there are very few coincidences.
Kathleen Ball, I wish you well with your work.
Please let me know how it goes.
If people want to read about you and what you do, where do they go?
Well, they can go to amazon.com and get a Grail Quest, Discovery of a Mysterious Knights Templar Cave in Brazil, or they can go to my website, www.templarsinbrazil.com.
And also find me on Facebook, The Templars in Brazil, or Kathleen Ann, A-N-N-E, Kathleen Ann Ball on Facebook.
I'm on Instagram, Templars in Brazil.
I'm on TikTok, and I'm on LinkedIn.
So there's a number of ways that people can get a hold of me.
And if you do want a signed author's copy, if someone wants a signed author's copy, you can contact me on Facebook.
It's the fastest way.
Well, you've done the full marketing job there, Kathleen.
There's no doubt about that.
Thank you very much indeed.
You're very welcome.
Have a wonderful evening for you, I guess.
It's evening, right?
It is indeed.
Thank you, Kathleen.
Bye-bye.
Dr. Kathleen Ball, your thoughts about that conversation, welcome.
And I'm sure that Kathleen Ball would welcome your thoughts too.
Very interesting.
A little bit of hidden history.
And as you know, as I've said, I am not a history person.
So that was mostly new to me.
I knew, of course, the name, and I've seen television programs and a couple of documentaries, but for me, basically, that's it.
But the idea that these people made their presence felt in areas where we didn't know they'd made their presence felt, I think that kind of topic is always interesting, don't you think?
Your thoughts, welcome, as ever.
More guests in the pipeline, great ones here on The Unexplained.
So until we meet again, here very soon.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online, and please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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