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Feb. 18, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:03:20

Edition 793 - Zenka Caro

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	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
	My name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
	Hoping as ever that life is good in your particular portion of the world, wherever you happen to be.
	Keep the emails coming.
	I get to see them as they drop into my inbox.
	Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his ongoing hard work.
	Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and check out the, oh boy, library of shows that I've got there.
	800 hours or so of podcasts were coming up to edition 800.
	I'm still making plans for exactly what I'm going to do with that.
	But your thoughts about what I should do?
	Still welcome.
	So that's theunexplained.tv, the website, and the Facebook page is the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
	If there is any news on the broadcast show, the radio show that is, or anything to do with the podcast that you're listening to, you will hear that information or see that information, experience that information on my Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes, which is a unique page, and I recommend checking it out and tell your friends about it too.
	Okay, I think that's said everything, hasn't it?
	If you have made a donation recently to The Unexplained, thank you very, very much for doing that.
	These are hard times, and thank you for your generosity, and thank you for thinking that I am worth supporting.
	I've tried to keep this show free, but as the time goes by, it's getting harder and harder and harder to fund everything.
	But, you know, I'm still doing it and have been doing it for 18 years, so we'll see how we go.
	But if you've donated, which you can do through the website, theunexplained.tv, thank you very much indeed.
	Every so often, we have a very different kind of guest.
	That is going to be the case on this edition of The Unexplained.
	Zenka Karo is here.
	And we're going to talk about the joy and science, I'm quoting here, behind spoon bending and how people can contact ETs using technology like ham radios, pheromins, which I think is that instrument that Brian Wilson for one used on Pet Sounds, but you would also hear on countless spooky TV shows in the United States and around the world, tube TVs and old cell phones.
	Zenka Karo, founder of LightNet, a collective intelligence think tank centered around consciousness.
	Karo is a pioneer in mind-over-matter consciousness research, an expert in spoon bending and electromagnetic radio ham radio contact with ETs and past loved ones.
	Sounds interesting.
	It is a little different from the stuff that we normally do here, but I think we have to mix it up.
	That's what I think.
	If you can imagine that I've got a kind of plastic washing up bowl full of little bowls here, different colors, every so often you have to throw them up in the air and catch them back into the bowl and see how they land.
	I love the variety of things that we do on the unexplained, from the hardest of hard science.
	For example, on the Sunday radio show, as I record these words, I'm going to be talking about nuclear fusion, amongst other things.
	But we'll also talk about the spooky stuff and the cryptozoology and all those things, because I believe it's a unique mix, and I believe that people are interested in this stuff.
	So Zenkakaro is the guest in the United States we're about to speak with.
	And I hope that you enjoy that.
	Please stay in touch with me.
	Let me know what you want out of this show.
	And guest booking is always the most difficult thing that I have to do.
	And I'm always chasing my tail on it.
	So if you have a good guest, and when I say a good guest, I mean somebody's got an interesting story to tell, somebody who is not going to get me taken off the internet or fired from the radio station, then by all means, let me know through the website, theunexplained.tv.
	Tell me who they are.
	And if you know how to contact them or you know them personally, that's great.
	And, you know, I'm willing to look at anything, really, although we've got to have good, solid material to deal with.
	So, you know, if somebody's got one little anecdote to tell, it's nice to see and we can mention it, but we couldn't base a whole show around it.
	So it's got to be something fairly meaty and all the other caveats taken on board, then we can progress with it is what I say.
	Enough talking from me.
	Let's get to America Now, Zenka Karo is here.
	Zenka, thank you very much for coming on my show.
	It's a pleasure to be here.
	So, Zenka, you do a whole range of stuff, right?
	Tell me about you.
	How would you describe yourself?
	Well, you know, I'm a typical person that was in technology.
	I did augmented reality and ran tech companies.
	And then I had some extreme experiences that made me completely question how consciousness and reality worked.
	And that tumbled me out of my whole life and into a new life of being a citizen science and inspiring other citizen scientists to start to investigate the phenomenon that seems to be present in our reality.
	So I started bending spoons with my mind.
	I started having radio contact with extraterrestrials.
	I started getting the lights in my house to go on and off in codes to talk to people in other dimensions.
	I mean, doing teleportation experiments.
	I mean, it has been a curiosity that has gotten me up in the morning every day, had me changing careers and really inspiring others, you know, to find each other so that we can get deeper into why things work the way they work.
	You said that you were in tech and something happened.
	What was the something happened that changed the way you look at things?
	Part of it, well, someone had done a Reiki session on me and I had woken up the next day.
	I threw up and all of a sudden everything was synchronized.
	Everything.
	You know, when you see a synchronist and you say, oh, wow, that's interesting.
	Well, this was on steroids.
	And I was very confused.
	And I started going, thinking to myself, what just happened to me?
	And I don't know if the energy centers in my body were suddenly lined up in a way that they'd never been Or that I had a massive amount of energy running through my body.
	But that was a big change for me.
	And then I started researching the spoon bending.
	It literally grabbed me and said, This is the funniest, most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
	I want to try it too.
	That's interesting.
	I have, in all the history of this show, and it goes back 18 years online, and I did my first radio show on these sorts of topics 20 years ago, and I've been doing a radio show for eight years.
	In all of those years, the only person that I've ever spoken about spoon bending with is Uri Geller, who I know pretty well.
	If I was coming into all of this and if I was starting to investigate the world beyond the world that we see, I don't think spoon bending would be the first thing that I would go to, but it spoke to you.
	How come?
	Well, I ran into the website of a famous spoon bender, not Yuri Geller, though he's amazing and he's impressed with our citizen science and what we've been able to do.
	But I started reading.
	I don't know.
	I just landed on this website.
	There's something about when you're in life and you're walking around and all of a sudden you see something that just grabs you.
	And I swear to God, the world stood still.
	Maybe some people feel that when they see that girl that they fall in love with or something like this.
	For me, the entire world stood still.
	And Jack Hauk, whose site it was, had passed at that point, you know, but he had taught 16,000 people how to do it.
	And I was completely captivated.
	And it made me happy every time I thought about it.
	And I started reading his entire website from cover to cover.
	And he's a scientist.
	So he has all these detailed accounts of how to do it.
	And so I did it.
	I secretly went, you know, to the thrift store, started buying spoons.
	And he said that you had to have 15 people.
	So then I had to convince, I was living in an apartment in LA where we couldn't be screaming at the top of our lungs.
	I had a child as well that was making a lot of noise.
	So I thought, this is not going to go over.
	So then I had to convince someone in my ceramic studio to let me do it at her house and have her not think I was not completely crazy.
	And she was, she said, okay.
	And then I had to convince 15 other people to come, which I did.
	And then I always tell this story.
	I, you know, Jack Helk said, you need someone that can bend at the party because what happens is the first person bends and there's an instantaneous belief change that cascades through the whole group.
	And all of a sudden, in that moment, everyone starts bending.
	But you need someone to kick that off.
	And I wasn't able to do it.
	And I was even scared to try because I had to look like I knew what I was doing in order to lead confidently that they could do it too.
	So I started calling around bookstores and mystery schools in LA.
	One mystery school basically almost hung up on me.
	They're like, no, no, no, we do this meditating.
	You can't be screaming up and down.
	And then this one bookstore, there was a woman and she said, well, yeah, I can spoon bend and I'll come to your party.
	And she canceled the day of the party, four hours before the party.
	She canceled.
	And I was horrified.
	And I was at the park with my son and playing in the sand.
	And literally, I was bearing him to his neck.
	And all of a sudden, I was digging in the sand and I kid you not, I lifted out a white plastic spoon that was bent at a 90 degree angle.
	And at that moment, someone walked by with a t-shirt that said, just do it.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, all of that could have been coincidence.
	And of course, a plastic spoon bent.
	Well, anything could bend a plastic spoon.
	Couldn't it?
	But it was just hilarious because.
	No, I know you're saying this was symbolic.
	Plastic spoon.
	Yeah.
	So this is, so this goes back to my core belief that when you're in a higher vibration frequency, however you want to call it, you're more coherent.
	So you're living almost closer, one step closer to heaven, however you want to say it.
	Your life gets better as you evolve.
	And in that moment, I was evolving in a powerful way that was aligned to why I'm here, to my greatest curiosity, to my heart's desire.
	And so things became synchronized at that moment.
	And I got to the party and there wasn't 15 people there.
	There was only 13.
	And I was like, well, we can't do the party.
	And so my friend called her parents and they came and we bent and we bent without touching and we bent and I couldn't sleep that whole night.
	I couldn't sleep.
	I was just, it literally broke my brain.
	I was just like, what?
	So, so Zenka, did you, I'm just curious as to how you invited, I'm not sure how you do invite people.
	How do you invite people to a spoon bending party?
	Do you say, hi, Allison, whatever your name might be, I'm having a spoon bending party.
	Would you like to come and bend spoons?
	Is that what happened?
	Yeah, and you know, I had, it was also kind of interesting because when I had that weird experience where everything started to be synchronized for two weeks straight, I was at my ceramic studio and I kid you not, people started talking to me about consciousness.
	And I'd been working with these people for months and it was highly bizarre that they would bring that stuff up just when I needed to talk to someone.
	And so I believe that your environment is somehow, you know, a reflection of your interior state.
	And in that moment, that Is what I needed.
	So, I'm a big believer in that, but I'm a believer in that on a mundane level.
	If there's something that I want, maybe something that I want to buy, I've given this example before, but I was a great one for, you know, Abercrombie sweatshirts, American ones.
	I used to love those things.
	But the old American style ones are very hard to get.
	They don't make quite the same style as they did in the early 2000s.
	And I loved those chunky ones that they used to do.
	And I had a few of them.
	And I think one of them got stolen at a hotel that I was at.
	And the others I lost along the way.
	And for years I tried to find them.
	And I focused on, I'm going to find these things.
	And the next thing I'm searching on a well-known auction site, and I'm sure you know the one that I mean, and I find two of them, both in the UK, both my size.
	One red, one blue.
	I bought both of them.
	I've been looking for those for years, but I never really tried with my mind to find them.
	Now that, I've given it before, is a trivial example, but I'm kind of on the same page with you, Zanka, that I think, you know, what you need, if you focus for it, tends to come to you.
	I don't understand because I'm not clever enough how that might work.
	Well, exactly.
	And that's what I've been researching.
	And that's why I've set up this nonprofit to gather people together to start comparing notes because we call it blooming.
	So we had a waking-induced lucid dreaming research team.
	And we started to give assignments to people to what we call bloom.
	So kind of like your sweatshirt would be a bloom because you said, I am looking for the sweatshirt.
	I would love it if it appears.
	Now, the trick to this that we found is you declare it, right?
	I'm looking for the sweatshirt.
	And then you kind of have to let it go.
	And what happens in spoon bending is when someone declares, so we yell, bend, bend, bend, and then we say, let it go.
	And if the person is concerned, like, ah, I don't think I can bend.
	I'm a Reiki professional, but I should be able to bend.
	Why can't I bend?
	What's wrong with my spoon?
	When is it going to happen?
	What's wrong with me?
	Do you see how all those things are taking you screaming in the wrong direction, right?
	So when you say bend, bend, bend, let it go and start thinking about something that makes you happy, going to the park, then you allow for that to come in because you're not injecting a bunch of thoughts that are worrying that you're never going to find that sweatshirt, right?
	So if you believe that every time, like every time I go to the grocery store, the things I need are on sale.
	So because I believe that, it always happens.
	So when you say, I'm the luckiest person, I apply for every job that I get.
	Every girl I ask says yes when I ask her to go out.
	Whatever the example is, if you believe that that's your nature, then it tends to come true.
	Your reality tends to match that.
	What happens is that oftentimes we don't even know when we apply for that job that in the back of our minds, in our subconscious minds, we think, I'm not good enough, actually smart enough to get that job.
	And so that's where you run into it.
	I get you.
	So this is good old-fashioned positive thinking.
	Kind of.
	It's it's yeah, and it's building a deep seated belief.
	So back to the blooming thing.
	So we we decided now this was delightful and light and fun.
	Nobody's, you know, life was on the line.
	And I think that's probably why it worked so well is because it wasn't a desperate need that had any sort of anxiety.
	So we decided to bloom purple cars because my 10-year-old son said, I don't believe in magic, mom.
	I'm not going to believe in magic until you bloom 10 or five purple cars.
	And sure enough, we didn't see any purple cars.
	I mean, we saw some maroon ones.
	We were like, oh, that's a purple car.
	He's like, nope, it has to be crayon purple, standard purple.
	And I thought, wow, okay.
	And sure enough, two days later, I'd pull out to pick him up at school and there is a purple VW.
	And then I'd pick him up at school.
	There's another purple car and we're talking bright purple.
	And so we started seeing a ton of purple cars.
	And so then we constantly would change it.
	We'd say, oh, I want to see red dots.
	And one time I walk into a hotel at the end of that week where we were all manifesting red dots and literally the entire wallpaper to the entire restaurant of that hotel was red dots along with artworks that was red dots.
	So you often have to get out of your normal zone sometimes to manifest things.
	If you're in your house all day long doing the same thing you always do, it's hard to meet that person or see that thing.
	I mean, I don't know how often you go on eBay, but or whatever auction site you were on, excuse me.
	So then, you know, you were giving the universe a chance to dovetail your desire there.
	All right.
	Now, I've got to add a little note of balance and skepticism into this because I remember my dad.
	It was always a big event when my dad bought a car.
	He would deliberate and deliberate and budget and bargain.
	And eventually we got a new car.
	And then the first trip out of the new car would always be a fantastic thing.
	And I can remember if we got a blue Vauxhall, which is a GM, if we got a blue Vauxhall car, you could bet your bottom dollar that the next five cars we would see would be exactly like the one that we'd got.
	And we've never noticed them before.
	Are you absolutely sure that you think there's more to that than mere coincidence?
	Oh, yeah.
	Because partially because I live in a town of 10,000 people and I don't recall ever seeing a bright purple car.
	In fact, I thought it was even impossible.
	So I would suggest that everybody listening come up with a bloom.
	And I do animals and people too.
	So I attach, like there was a guy that was a scientist that used to visit me and I associated him with praying mantises.
	And every time he would come, I would have six praying mantises on my, on the screen window.
	Then the other time, there was five, five or so on the garage door.
	And then another time he came, they were on the front porch.
	So you can attach meaning is what drives the universe.
	That car was meaningful to you guys because you saved, because you were excited, because it was a big deal.
	If it didn't have meaning to you, the universe's math wouldn't have delivered it into your field.
	So give something in meaning.
	I mean, we had some, this couple come over and we're telling them about blooming and they said, oh, well, I was like, well, let's pick an object, an animal or an object.
	And they were like, well, let's pick a $100 bill.
	And I was like, whoa.
	It's like, okay.
	The next day, two days later, actually, they text us and they go, you're never going to believe this.
	We were climbing a mountain in Sedona and we found this $100 bill on the top of the summit.
	And it ended up being a pamphlet of a guy who said there's biblical evidence in the Bible that ETs existed.
	So it was just some random guy advertisement.
	I go to watch the video and he's got $100 bills that he's got all in the video.
	And then my son finds a $100 bill in his backpack.
	So it's just a matter of us understanding because if we're in a, we're doing research right now on what we call lucid living.
	So it's kind of like lucid dreaming where you go, hey, wait a minute, I'm in a dream.
	I could just decide what car I want to drive.
	Or, you know, in that lucid state in your dream, you say, hey, wait a minute, anything is possible.
	Well, we're trying to figure out, can we practice dreaming awake here?
	And is this a space?
	Are we in a space where anything is possible?
	If we unchain our mind, if we get out of the cage, if we allow ourselves to believe that anything could be possible.
	Well, there's got to be a cosmic break on those things, I would have thought, because some things are just not practical, are they?
	It's one thing to say, and I've done it myself with the example of the purple car.
	I remember telling my sister once years ago, and my listener's been bored with this story before, at Wood Green Shopping City in London, I remember saying to my sister, there are no parking spaces this morning that you can see, but I know that on a floor up here, there is one parking space next to, curiously enough, an awful purple-colored VW.
	It's a really, it's a bad, bad shade of purple, but it's next to that car.
	It was there, okay?
	So those things happen, I think.
	I'm not entirely sure what the mechanism is.
	You know, do you thinking about it, put it there?
	Is it there?
	And you just divine that it's there by thinking the knowledge is brought to you that it is there already.
	But there has to be practicality about it.
	If I said to myself, I've got a Starbucks half a mile from where I live, which I do, I'm going to go there tomorrow and I'm going to walk in and sitting at the table just to the right of the door, nice new pine table, will be Jennifer Anniston.
	Now, you and I both know that Jen Anniston is not going to be in a Starbucks in a London suburb tomorrow.
	So even if I think that, it ain't going to happen.
	if that's what you believe deep down.
	See, that's where we have to take a look at how this works, because I believe people That example would never work.
	And you got me super excited because I was thinking in my mind, I'm like, he needs to go to Starbucks tomorrow and see what happens.
	Right.
	But then you tanked it because you said, but there's no possibility.
	So you've completely destroyed the mathematical probability of that happening.
	Now, back to the theories.
	So one theory I have is that, you know, it does, your inner world is your outer world.
	So everything that you see, every person, everything, every object, every experience is your own experience.
	You're in your own universe.
	So am I. And that it is a mirror, so to speak, of your own learning.
	And it's a self-recursive algorithm that is constantly learning.
	The second theory is that there's beings on the other side that can actually place things in your reality to have a conversation with you.
	So they can actually make these things, the cars come or that.
	And then the third option is that it's a combination of your desire, so your internal world with an external world that is driven by the math of society.
	So in order, I can cancel meetings whenever I want.
	If I don't want a meeting to happen, I don't know why statistically it's like always possible.
	Maybe I've created a belief around it.
	But I can always cancel a meeting if I don't want to go to it, no matter how many people are involved.
	Now, if society, so we have a levitation lab that we're working on where we're interviewing 100 people that have levitated.
	So obviously society, the probability of you thinking that you can levitate is very small because you probably think it's impossible.
	I don't know.
	But we found eight people who levitated.
	How do you know that they've levitated?
	Because they told you?
	Well, so that's the idea: is that we're interviewing people that do impossible things and then we share the data with the world.
	So we're interviewing people who got out of wheelchairs, got off a heroin, found their purpose, levitated, etc.
	So yeah, you have to take their word for it unless they can replicate it.
	You know, Yuri Geller, speaking of Yuri Geller, he teleported.
	And you think that is absolutely insane.
	And it is with our societal mathematical probability.
	But 10 years from now, that might not be so crazy.
	And you might be able to do it because the society has like there's a reason why children bend spoons without touching all the time.
	And I'm not sure why.
	But I think it's because they don't have all of that programming saying that's impossible.
	Okay.
	Now, you've got these people who say that they can levitate and they say that they've done that so you believe them.
	That's not very scientific, though, is it?
	You need, in order to be able to take this forward and show people that these things can actually be done, even if you think they can't, you've got to be able to prove it to a scientist.
	You need to be able to prove it to the quizzical and skeptical community.
	Otherwise, it's just what people say, isn't it?
	Yes, but it's important for people like me and people in our community, the Starseed Academy and LightNet, to come together because, you know, a lot of doctors will tell people that are paralyzed that they're never getting out of that wheelchair.
	And when you look up at a doctor and they say that, you probably won't.
	But we've interviewed two people that have been studied massively by doctors, like thinking they wanted to keep them in the hospital two weeks after they got up.
	And they're thinking, how did this?
	And they used consciousness to do it.
	So you have to allow for people like me to do what I call dragnet research.
	And dragnet research is saying, I'm going to study 100 people who levitated.
	Kofi Rain, who's on our staff, is leading that.
	And we're going to look for a pattern.
	And if 50 people say that they were, like we've only done eight, so there's not really a pattern yet, but three or four of them said that they asked to do it with the other side.
	They actually asked.
	And maybe that increased their belief system.
	Maybe there is no one on the other side.
	I have no idea, but maybe it increased their belief system.
	But that's a pattern.
	And then we invite people to try it at home.
	So, I mean, we're working on a teleportation experiment right now, which I probably shouldn't even talk about because I don't want the other people listening to start not believing in the experiment because that could affect the experiment.
	But that's a vital part of it.
	Here I am jumping in.
	Forgive me for that.
	But I think it's just important that we clarify this.
	That's a vital part of it, isn't it?
	If you have, for example, levitation and people telling you that they can do it, and then you work out there are some commonalities in, say, of 100 people, you want to get 100 stories.
	Say in 30 of them, 30 people all did one particular thing before it happened for them.
	They say.
	Then the next stage of it is to put on a big experiment where you do all of those things and lo and behold, you're floating off the ground.
	Exactly.
	And that's why I've designed the Star State Academy and Lightnet to do just that.
	So we put people into groups of eight to 12 using Lynn McTaggart's math to say, if you have eight to 12 people all focused on one thing, you have got a very strong probability of succeeding.
	Now, to all the listeners, I get it.
	Levitation seems absolutely out there.
	And that's partially why we want to include it in our research, because it is so sensationalistic.
	But I don't believe it's impossible.
	And talking to people, I mean, I don't think I can share.
	I don't know if I can share these people's names, but two of the people that have levitated are high-end scientific researchers.
	And one of them is a very grounded investigative reporter.
	Okay, and did those people do it because they were specifically researching that thing?
	They scientifically wanted to know that it could be done.
	No, no.
	One person was sleeping and his roommate threw him out of the house because when he would sleep, he would levitate off the ground.
	And another one was landed on her feet at the side of her bed, standing up.
	So she flew through the air off of her bed.
	And another guy said that E.T.'s, he has full recall of the experience, lifted, levitated him off his bed, moved him into the hallway, and then tipped him to his feet.
	So again, you know, if Yuri Geller says that he teleported, and we're doing teleportation right now with cameras and all this sort of evidence, you know, Carolyn Corey style.
	But if Yuri Geller said in his, you know, Gaia movie, he talked about teleporting from downtown New York City to the suburbs 30 miles away, if everyone just said, oh, didn't happen because there's no proof, because I've asked Yuri, could you do it again?
	And he says, I don't know when it happens.
	I can't do it on demand.
	But if just because he can't do it on demand, we're willing to put our curiosity far, far away and never ask a question about it.
	No, I think we should be asking the question, but the standard of scientific proof, and I Have got some very skeptical listeners who will be hearing this and some people who, like me, are intrigued by it.
	The standard of scientific proof, of course, is being able to repeat it and do it again.
	There are some people, as you will know, in California, I had them on my show, who are offering, is it half a million dollars for anybody who can demonstrate something paranormal?
	I think levitation teleportation would certainly fit within that realm.
	If you're able to do that, then you're going to be half a million dollars richer, I would have thought.
	I would love to do that because I get it.
	So I, you know, I'm a scientific mind.
	I get this craving for legitimate proof, which is why I set up this statistical database of consciousness.
	And there's two experiments that we're doing right now that really have physical proof that really appeals to all you guys out there that are left brain type of people.
	So one of which is that somehow, and I don't know how this happened, every time I go to a restaurant, the fork that's at my place is bent.
	And so I have 50 of them labeled with the exact restaurant name, the date, and everything else.
	And so tell me for just half a second.
	Do you presumably you say to the people at the restaurant, may I take the fork?
	No, I just take them because my son got so mad.
	He's like, you're stealing.
	And then he realized how insane it was because these forks just get more and more bent.
	And so he's like, just take it, mom.
	Okay, well, can I just say, I know this is obvious.
	Can I just say to my listener, we are not, and I am certainly not endorsing that you do anything like that because even though it's only a fork, it is theft.
	But however, I'm hearing what you say.
	Well, so sometimes I even ask the waiter, like, because sometimes they're so bent and they get sent back, like I forget to pull them off.
	And they, and then I say, oh, can you go get that fork that you just took?
	Because I need to keep it because I'm bending forks.
	So, I mean, I agree with you.
	I think it's very important to maintain a coherent thing.
	You know, I spend my whole life working on this nonprofit and really I feel like the tables are balanced.
	And I think it's important that people understand that there is proof, you know, more than just a picture.
	I want to hand them the fork.
	I want them to feel it.
	I want to have this collection.
	But the other thing that we're doing is radio research with ETs and past loved ones.
	All right.
	Just before we get off the forks and the spoons, we'll move.
	And here I am.
	And I am sorry for jumping in, but I just want to ask two quick things, really, before we get off that side of it.
	The spoon bending is interesting.
	How do you do it?
	Now, remember, we're on radio.
	This is not television.
	So what is it that you do when you bend a spoon?
	If I hadn't asked that question here or before here, somebody would have emailed me to say, you never asked her what she's claiming you do to be able to bend a spoon.
	Do you hold it in your hand and think about it?
	I've got spoons.
	I could go and get one now.
	We could do it together.
	But, you know, how do you bend a spoon?
	If you would like to do that experiment, let's do it.
	But how do you bend a spoon?
	Okay, so here's how we do it.
	And I follow Jack Hauk's methodology, right?
	The scientist who taught 16,000 everyday people how to do it.
	And we do it in four stages.
	So kindergarten bending is the first stage.
	But before I tell you the different stages, I'm going to tell you the methodology.
	So 15 people is best.
	So only 50% of people can bend the spoon after the party alone in their quiet room.
	So there's something about the thrust and energy and enthusiasm and belief of those 15 people.
	Right.
	The power of the collective.
	Yeah.
	Lynn McTaggart says you need eight people.
	Now, now, I think because spoon bending is what I call extreme reality creation, having 15 is better.
	Now, we know from science that, and Jack Hauk, he said that if you've got a skeptic, you've got to put them next to get, next to the bigger benders, the people that really can bend, because their thoughts are actually adding into the field.
	So, and he said the best ratio is 50% open-minded people, 25% kids, and the rest can be skeptics.
	But that's the thing, you know, so opening up your mind is a good first start.
	That would be a good thing to start with.
	Getting in a group.
	Now, we do these once a month at starseedacademy.org.
	Join.
	You can just come on Zoom, get in there, be with 15 people, get your spoons, and do it.
	Now, the second thing we do is we, which I already told you, we say bend, bend, bend three times, and then we say let it go.
	And what we do is we cause massive amounts of chaos in the environment.
	So I start bending, I start screaming.
	Anybody who bends, we have them jump up and down, like in Zoom, they're just talking over each other because that shuts down your logical brain.
	At some point, there's so much chaos that you can't even think straight.
	And that's exactly what has to happen in order for you to bend a spoon because your thinking mind is going to block it.
	Your thinking mind thinks, well, if I could do that, this is, you know, it gets in your way.
	Whereas your gut instinct and your, you know, I don't know what it is, but that knows how to do it.
	And so we cause chaos.
	People, like, you know, just like when you're dancing or just like when you're like those churches that are like doing tongues and everyone's going crazy, they're not thinking in that moment.
	They're in the flow.
	They're in the moment, right?
	So that's important.
	Okay.
	And then sometimes we reprogram people's thoughts using theta commands.
	So we take anybody who didn't bend on the first round and we use a pendulum and we say, we have them say, I'm allowed to bend a spoon.
	It is safe to bend a spoon.
	I know how to bend a spoon.
	And a lot of them are getting no's.
	And it's because of their subconscious programming, seven generations of, you know, witch hunts or this or that or religion or whatever got in their way to say, this isn't okay.
	So we erase those beliefs by doing a prayer command and then we retest them to make sure the beliefs have changed.
	And then typically they can bend.
	Now, the final piece of it is that we go through four different practices, sometimes five.
	Because someone might not be able to do the basic one, the easy one, and they can do the hardest one.
	I don't know how that works, but it does happen.
	So the first one is called kindergarten, where it's called warm forming.
	You have one hand on the bottom of the spoon, another hand on the top, and the spoon gets totally soft and malleable like rubber for 15 seconds.
	And in that moment, you do a twisty twist with the spoon.
	And then it gets hard and you can't do it anymore.
	High school bending is where you bend the buckle of the spoon, which is almost impossible to do with, you know, your physical force.
	And then graduate school bending is where you're holding the spoon in a hand and you're not touching it and it's bending.
	Then we do seed sprouting in your hands.
	So we sprout a mung bean.
	It comes out, the shell breaks out open, the little, like the first little seed part comes out.
	And that sometimes people can't do the spoons because it's metal and it's this and it's that and this is more natural and whatever.
	And they can do that.
	Right.
	So you say that seeds sprout in your hands because you think at them.
	And it's not just because of the warmth and potentially moisture in your, in your palms?
	I don't know.
	I mean, that could be the case.
	We've had different scientists from all over come to Sedona to observe these experiences.
	And we've had thermal cameras and we've had, you know, we've done all sorts of things.
	One of the things they did was they sent us tungsten, $200 worth of tungsten.
	And they said, try to bend this.
	And I said, okay.
	And I couldn't do it before the party.
	I could not do it myself.
	And so we had this guy there.
	He was one of our donors.
	He couldn't bend it either.
	But what was happening was he was breaking his spoons.
	So oftentimes one person can affect the crowd.
	So we had 50 people in a live event and a guy, this guy broke his spoon in half.
	And then all of a sudden, 10 or 12 more people broke their spoons literally in half.
	And I was thinking, wow.
	So I handed him the tungsten.
	He couldn't do it, passed it to Adam.
	Adam was like, oh, just pretend like it's clay, passed it back.
	And sure enough, he broke it.
	It shattered.
	And I was completely freaked out.
	I hadn't gotten on camera.
	And I thought, these guys are going to be upset because we didn't get on camera.
	And I had another camera set up to do it.
	So I go and I said, well, Andrew, at least explain how you did this.
	And he did explain it.
	And then he did it again, which we got on camera.
	I sent it back to the scientist, all the materials.
	And he was like, Zenka, this is impossible.
	He said, he said, you know, this would be 10,000, like the physical strength.
	Or no, 1,000 times.
	He said, there's 10,000 DPI or some sort of pressure measurement of that metal.
	And they said it's 1,000 times more force than a human could ever exert.
	And I said, well, thank God you didn't tell me that because you would have closed my mind to the possibility of being able to do it.
	So we put ourselves in our own cages.
	And yeah, it's not easy to get your mind to open up to what's possible.
	But when it does, you can achieve all sorts of things.
	Okay, I get it.
	And it's rather like those people you see who in crises where perhaps somebody is trapped underneath a car, they say, can you lift a car?
	Of course I can't lift a car.
	But somehow, on occasions when they absolutely have to do it, there are people who gather up their strength, summon up whatever it is, and they lift the car off the person, which theoretically is not possible unless you are Superman and your name really is Clark Kent.
	You know, most people can't do that.
	Everybody can't do that, I would say.
	I'm going to get email now telling me I did that.
	But, you know, unless it's a tiny little fee at 500, I think it's probably impossible to lift a car.
	So you're talking about channeling the same thing.
	You've got to believe it.
	If you believe it, you can achieve it is what the famous group, the Brand New Heavies, once saying.
	Exactly.
	You know, and it's getting out of our thinking mind a little bit more.
	So because it's not about bending the spoon.
	Who cares if you bend a spoon?
	This is actually about your life.
	This is about you saying, I always wanted to be an author, but I never did it because X, Y, Z. When I was seven, I wanted to be a architect, but I never did it because of XYZ.
	This is about you going deeper than your logical mind consensus reality saying a poor kid from the inner city can't be an architect.
	This is about overriding your mind, the voices in your head, because you have a board Of directors in your head, and one part of the board of directors saying, Go for it, like just get in architecture school.
	And the other voice is saying, You're never going to make money, it's not going to work out.
	You have to override those voices sometimes and go with your desire, your heart.
	That's what manifested, manifest things.
	Nobody is more into this stuff than me because I've made this stuff happen in my life.
	So I'm kind of on your side here, but I have to be balanced about the thing.
	And you have to say that if everybody gets what their desire is, say, I don't know, 25%, 20% of the population wants to be a millionaire.
	There's not enough money for that to happen for everybody.
	If everybody wants to achieve, I don't know, they want to be a concert pianist.
	There probably aren't enough vacancies for concert pianists.
	If everybody dreams or focuses on being a concert pianist, there's just too much scarcity.
	How do we overcome that?
	Well, that's a great question.
	You know, I've been grappling with this idea that there might be a chance that we live in a holographic reality that's in a symbiotic relationship with our consciousness as sort of a school that we're in.
	So in that sense, there's no limit.
	The only limit is where you're willing to go.
	So whether I have my own copy of the universe and you have your own copy of the universe, or whether we're all in here together collaborating, there is no such thing as limitation.
	There's enough mansions that will be created in order to have that learning reflection for the person that's trying to achieve that.
	So I don't see the world so materialistically.
	It's a symbiotic, perhaps, you know, hologram, holographic sound stage that is designed to evolve your soul.
	So you're saying, I think, tell me if I'm wrong, that it expands to match your desires.
	Is that right?
	You know, the amount of stuff available, the amount of fulfilled dreams increases to match the number of people who are wanting to fulfill their dreams and using the right techniques to do it.
	Exactly.
	And remember, this is a learning environment.
	So sometimes the things you think you want are not always what you end up wanting.
	And there's always an interesting kind of a learning thing.
	But I do believe that if you stay consistent, a lot of people want one thing and the next year they want another thing and then the universe has no idea what you're trying to do because you're constantly changing your mind every five minutes.
	I'm completely on side with you with that.
	But look, there's good and bad here, isn't there, though?
	What happens if somebody wants something that's bad for them or bad for somebody else or bad for society?
	Well, I think that the only requirement is actually the truth of your desire, like what you truly want.
	So a lot of times you'll be creating things in your life and you'll be thinking, I didn't want this, but it's where your focus is, or maybe there's a part of you inside that says, I don't think I can get that job.
	Even though you say you want the job, there's a part of you that's running out the back door as a scared little girl.
	So there's a coherence that has to happen between all of your parts.
	Okay, I want to move forward with this because we don't have a lot of time left, Zenka.
	Question to ask before we do move forward, and this is a question held over from just before because I didn't want to keep interrupting you.
	Who put $100 in your son's backpack?
	I don't know.
	Oh, okay.
	So it might have been there when you bought it?
	You don't know?
	No.
	I mean, that's the thing.
	You know, when we start believing in miracles and children tend to believe more than we do, because I admitted to you that when my friend was like, oh, we're going to bloom $100, I was like, that is, I wanted to say, I was like, that's not a good idea.
	That's impossible.
	Like, who's going to leave a dollar bill on the ground?
	I mean, $100 bill on the ground.
	Like, this is a difficult challenge you guys have created for yourself.
	And then it happened in this weird, funny way.
	So there's, you know, and that's, I guess, the, the, the thrust of my life is to see how far we can take it.
	Like, how far does this go?
	I have a feeling when we die, someone's going to put their hand around our, you know, our shoulder and go, well, you could have done anything.
	It's, it's ourselves that limit ourselves.
	It's kind of like those elephants that get chained as babies to the, the, you know, the, the, the tree, and then later they unchain them and they don't even run because they don't, they don't even believe that they even could anymore.
	It's like learned helplessness.
	We're facing the biggest challenge we've ever had to face as humanity, and we need to believe in our potential in order to make magic happen in this coming renaissance.
	Okay, well, I think we can agree on that.
	Let's move forward here in the 10 minutes or so that we've got.
	How does all the stuff that we've talked about up to now tie into communicating with ETs?
	First of all, you have to believe that ETs exist.
	Then you've got to communicate with them.
	How do those things meld?
	So again, you know, I didn't believe in any of this.
	You know, I would completely roll my eyes when Someone would be like, ETs, I was like, absolutely not.
	I didn't believe in reincarnation.
	I didn't believe in anything.
	I didn't believe in any of this.
	I came from a very computer, you know, software developer background.
	And there was this guy who had an antenna array.
	His name is Jimmy Blanchette, and he was sending pictures through sound way up into space and asking to see craft at a certain time and date.
	And it was working.
	And so he started using these ham radios.
	And I started, and so he shared the frequency with me, which is now completely public.
	So all you citizen science can go on Amazon, buy a ham radio and turn it to 144.101.
	And what happened is so fascinating because we would get 20 to 21 radios all lined up, all on that same channel, right?
	So they should be hearing the same thing.
	Just like your car radios on 101, you're listening to the cars.
	I'm on 101.
	I'm listening to the cars.
	We're listening to the same song.
	We're on the same channel, right?
	These radios break the laws of physics because the ETs can isolate one radio and make noise and isolate the fourth radio and make a different noise.
	And we've developed a code system where they can answer yes and no questions with us.
	And it's been one of the most fascinating, anthropological, mind-breaking adventures I've ever been on.
	Okay, who are they?
	And what are they saying?
	Well, so I have my radios marked.
	So some of them I lock out.
	So I say only Andromedan can use this radio, et cetera, et cetera.
	So I have one as a past loved one, another are different ETs, right?
	And then I have some that are completely open channels.
	And so the way that you know who they are is you can ask them.
	So the first time we developed the code, I was in a park and Jimmy had asked me to do a little documentary about the research.
	And it just occurred to me, I said, all right, radios, give me one beep if you're Andromedan, two beeps if you're Palladium, three beeps if you're Syrian, four beeps if you're, you know, and pretty soon they were like, they were doing like four beeps.
	And you're sure that that wasn't, I mean, I don't want to sound like Mr. Skeptic here because, you know, I really, I want to believe, okay, but Mr. Skeptic would say, if he was here, are you sure that wasn't random local interference?
	Well, no, and I, and we have video proof of all this stuff too.
	So I was just put, I need to put together a playlist on our YouTube, our LightNet, where people can actually see because we've got a bunch of videos, but they're all and here I am jumping in, but it's important.
	You can get specific answers to specific questions by doing this.
	What is the wildest thing?
	Well, you know, look, if that happens, that's amazing.
	It is amazing.
	And it's just this, it totally changed the way that I conceptualize reality because I have a feeling that they can see us.
	Like, I have a feeling that it really is what the scientists are saying, that there's different frequencies that this light field exists, like a holographic field.
	So we're in one situation where we can see and feel and touch certain things.
	And they're in a slightly different, you can kind of think it like a radio, like a different channel in a way.
	And so when you can shift to that or they can downshift, they can be in this reality with us and we can upshift into theirs.
	So it's not easy to develop that capability.
	But what we're using is like an in-between medium.
	The radios offer a chance for us to say, yes, use it to communicate and they can use it.
	And it's absolutely fascinating because like I said, nobody can explain.
	I mean, we've put these things in Faraday cages.
	Faraday cages block out every single electromagnetic field in existence.
	Like you can't even get the phone call or the radio signal to even come.
	All you should get is white noise.
	Right.
	And they're making noises.
	So it's sometimes we have to really think beyond what we know in physics.
	You know, I mean, quantum physics is already breaking our brains, but this is like an introduction to the fact that it's good to stay open-minded because we don't even, we're not even grounded in how the physics work in this reality yet.
	Okay.
	Well, I don't know whether it's feasible, but again, the ultimate test would be to arrange to ask somebody who's passed on maybe, or an ET who knows all things about everything.
	Maybe you could say, look, we've got the Super Bowl coming up, who's going to win it?
	Or here in the UK, we've got the cup final coming up in soccer, football here.
	You know, who's going to win and what's the score?
	If you're able to predict that, if you're able to get a superior intelligence to tell you that stuff, and you can show that you've done that before the event, then you've got a story that's going to be on the front page of everything in every language and every continent.
	If only it was that easy.
	So one of the things that they don't do is that they don't answer questions about the future.
	So I have noticed that because people have asked that, have often asked that.
	And I believe it's because they, it's, there's, you know, and this again gets back into mind-breaking, brain-breaking physics is that there may be alternate versions of you having alternate experiences.
	So in one timeline, the Super Bowl is won by this person in another.
	So they don't, it's like a question, and this happens a lot sometimes when you ask them questions from our point of view.
	We have a code that's three beeps, which means rephrase the question, ask another question, because it's just phrased in a way that they that it doesn't even, it can't even be answered in a yes or no question.
	It would be both, right?
	So they both win and they both lose, depending on the collapsed, you know, event time, you know, the physics of the observer in that moment, right?
	So they also clap.
	So they have four beeps is clapping and they get very excited about stuff and they tell us about our school, their schools and what they look like and how things work and how to make ET contacts.
	So they do answer a lot of questions, but that's one thing I have noticed.
	And by the way, I encourage everyone to search right now on Google the Martin Scores Saze ET UFO Super Bowl ad because it's a beautiful ad and it talks about all the ETs are coming, all the UFOs are coming and everyone's watching cat videos and celebrity bacon diets and nobody's paying attention and they're like so depressed.
	And they say, this is so sad.
	We want to come.
	We want to interact with you.
	So anyway.
	Oh boy.
	Well, listen, I don't know where to go from there.
	I think we could probably talk for another hour, but I think it's fair to leave my listeners with what they've had so far and then they can think about that.
	Now, I'm going to have a lot of people who will think that what you've said is completely outlandish and is mumbo-jumbo and it's got no basis in anything.
	But I think the kernel of it is stuff that people have been talking about and I've been talking about for years.
	And that is the thought that what you see and the run of events as you see them doesn't always have to be like that.
	You can make it change.
	Collectively, we can make it change.
	Whether that, I don't know, whether you can get 15 people together and Ben Spoons, it's interesting that Uruguay seems to be able to do it by himself.
	But leaving that aside, you don't have to accept what is.
	You can make a change.
	And I think if we take that away from this conversation, then we've taken away something important.
	Whatever you might think of what went before, I'm talking to my listener here, Zenka.
	Whatever you might think of what you've just heard, have a think about that and see if you can relate that at all to your life.
	I hope that conversation has been okay for you, Zenka.
	Yeah, that's beautiful.
	That's a great way to close it.
	And I would just say, get out there and experiment in small ways.
	Get out there and do the rockstar parking experiment where you say, everywhere I go, I always get a great parking spot and see what happens and give yourself a chance to get the hang of it and create new beliefs around it and just get in there and try it.
	Don't take my word for it.
	You know, come to a spoon bending party, do rockstar parking, whatever it is.
	Like the first time you experience it, you go, that was a fun.
	I don't think they have spoon bending parties in London, Zenka.
	Maybe I should start one.
	I don't know.
	I think them online.
	It's playing.
	It's easy.
	Okay.
	Well, listen, we've got to talk again.
	You know, I think it's fascinating.
	And I know there'll be skeptics, and I quite understand that.
	I'm quite skeptical about stuff myself.
	But like I said, I think there's a kernel of something here.
	So, you know, like they say at the end of TV dramas from patent place to whatever's on today, to be continued.
	Thank you so much for all the work that you're doing in the world.
	What a great program.
	And you certainly have stayed consistent and created a massive ripple effect with your conversations.
	So thank you so much for doing what you do.
	If I can get close to that, I'll be a happy man.
	Thank you, Zenka.
	As they used to say on the TV shows, you've been hearing Zenka Karo.
	Your thoughts on her and all of my guests on The Unexplained, gratefully received.
	You can go to the website theunexplained.tv, follow the email link there, and you can communicate with me directly.
	If your email specifically requires a reply, please can you put that in the subject line?
	And don't forget, I'm still looking for ideas for Edition 800, which is coming soon.
	How soon is it?
	Very soon, Howard.
	Thank you very much.
	Okay, so until next we meet.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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