The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 93 - Wynn Free

Oct. 3, 2012 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:14:49

Edition 93 - Wynn Free

This time we talk to Wynn Free in Arizona, USA – a man with a remarkable life-story... Wynnsays he has been in contact with a higher intelligence. Also, he wrote a book about a man claimed to bethe re-incarnation of modern-day prophet Edgar Cayce.

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	As ever, thank you for keeping faith with the show.
	Thank you for your great emails and also for your vital, vital donations.
	If you'd like to get in touch with me about the show or make a donation to it, go now to the website www.theunexplained.tv.
	That website devised and designed by Adam Cornwell, very talented guy at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, who also gets the show out to you.
	So that's the way to contact us.
	And if you're hearing this through iTunes or any other portal, please put a hit on my website.
	Absolutely.
	Very, very important that you do that.
	Now, I was going to give a shout out to an awful lot of people who've emailed recently.
	But unfortunately, we're going to have to leave that until next time because the guest this time is so damn good.
	His name is Winfree.
	You might have heard of him.
	Winfree believes that he has connected with an intelligence higher than ours.
	Now, that's a story that you've heard here before, I know.
	But his take on all of this, I think, is pretty, very interesting.
	And I don't know how else to describe this.
	Also, Winfree wrote a book about a man who he says is the reincarnation of the prophet Edgar Casey.
	Read about Edgar Casey.
	It's spelt C-A-Y-C-E if you don't know about him.
	Very, very famous.
	That's interesting, and we could have done a whole show on that alone.
	But we're going to cross to California, USA, in just a second to connect with Winfrey to talk about his work.
	Fascinating, amazing time, this.
	The Curiosity probe on Mars might have discovered the remnants of flowing water up there.
	I think we're going to hear much more in 2013 from that.
	And I think we're in for some revelations if they're allowed to get out, that is.
	And that's it, really.
	It's autumn time here in the northern hemisphere.
	The leaves are beginning to fall.
	Lovely time of year.
	Temperature about 18 degrees right now.
	But I know next month, November, December, going to get an awful lot colder.
	So that's where we are.
	Thank you very much for being part of this show.
	Please stay in touch with me.
	I feel like, you know, you're my family in a way.
	I really, really am pleased every morning when I turn on the computer to get your email response to the show.
	So thank you for that.
	Right, let's cross to the United States now and connect with Wynn Free.
	Wynn, thank you for coming on The Unexplained.
	Hey, Howard.
	I am so honored to be here with you today.
	I like you already, Wynn.
	Hey, listen, how's California?
	Howard, I'm in Arizona.
	What?
	I am in Sedona.
	What's happened?
	Have you moved or something?
	What's going on?
	Sedona, Arizona has more wackos per square capita than California.
	Believe it or not.
	Hey, I'm glad you said that and not me, but that's the indication that some people could get reading about it.
	But, you know, I'm not getting into that debate.
	I don't even fit here.
	Really?
	So the logical question then, Wynn, is what are you doing there?
	You know what?
	The answer to that is so far out that I'm not going to tell you.
	But ask me, if you have me on a second time, you can ask me, but not the first time.
	That's no good.
	That's leaving me in suspense.
	That's keeping me dangling.
	That's right.
	Look, I'll get it out of you, okay?
	I've had years of training to do that.
	Now, Winfrey, you're on here because, like a lot of people now, my listeners suggested that you would be a great guest to have on.
	So I emailed you and you got back to me very, very quickly.
	And that's exactly why we're doing this now.
	Tell me a little bit about yourself.
	What is your story?
	Well, just to go back very quickly, at one point I was a physics major at UC Berkeley, and I thought I wanted to be a professor.
	And then I became a songwriter, and I traveled around the country, and I had a rock and roll band, and I had songs recorded.
	And then my life fell apart for about 20 years, and I discovered this guy that said thought he was connected to Edgar Casey.
	And I was so compelled by his story and the information that was coming through him that I decided to write a book about it.
	I had never written a book before.
	You did.
	And I want to talk about Edgar Casey in more detail later.
	But let's just say for people who've never heard of Edgar Casey, and there are some, could we call Edgar Cayce in his era a prophet?
	Well, he was often known as the sleeping prophet.
	He would go into a trance, and while he was in a trance, people would ask him questions, and he demonstrated virtual omniscience in his ability to diagnose people's illnesses, recommend alternative cures that worked, that no one had ever discovered, and tell people who they were in their past lives.
	And he died in 1945, and 500 books were written about him after he died from the people who researched his readings.
	So there's books called Edgar Casey on Atlantis, Edgar Casey on the Life of Jesus, Edgar Casey on Attitudes and Emotions, Edgar Casey on Reincarnation.
	Well, he didn't write the books, but they were all compiled from his readings.
	And when I was in college, I was a nerd.
	I was a physics major.
	And my first real girlfriend in college was into metaphysics and all this stuff.
	And she had all these Edgar Casey books around.
	And it was in reading Edgar Cayce that I became open to the idea that there was more to life than met the eye.
	There was no way that Edgar Cayce could have been a fake, a trick.
	He actually did this.
	He had witnesses.
	And he did 15,000 readings.
	And so I probably read 20 Edgar Casey books.
	And then when I met this person that I discovered their website and I studied it, I said, this guy has to be Edgar Casey, reincarnated.
	We can talk about that later.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, to claim that somebody is the reincarnation of somebody quite that famous is staggering.
	And I know that you have a belief that there is much more to that, and there are more people like that in this world who've been reincarnated in that way.
	And that's why I want to touch on that.
	Well, not touch on it, expand on it in a little while.
	But your story, as far as I've read it online, is quite fascinating.
	The story of how you made contact, you say, with energies and beings, for want of a better word, completely beyond our comprehension here, if you know what I'm saying.
	I know what you're saying.
	Well, actually, what happened was I was in the middle of writing this book, and it was 2002, and I had a new friend, a personal relationship.
	I'd been instructed not to call her a girlfriend, so I'm not saying that.
	Okay.
	Strong lady, eh?
	It's politically incorrect.
	Okay, well, I don't want to put you in any danger.
	And so we were driving from Los Angeles to Portland, Oregon, and it was pouring rain, and the driving was treacherous.
	And so we decided to do a little prayer protection for safe driving.
	And so we did this prayer.
	And at the end of the prayer, like a joke, I said, does anybody want to talk to me?
	And I said it because I was writing this book.
	And she answered and she said, we're here.
	Do you have questions?
	Well, I thought she was kidding me, but I asked some questions and she answered them.
	And it didn't sound like her, but I still thought she was kidding.
	And after a few minutes, she said, that's the strangest thing that ever happened to me.
	Hold on.
	So up until that point, this lady had no idea that there might be more to her than met the eye.
	This was her first experience of something.
	Well, you know, she used to live in Northern California, and she used to do readings at a metaphysical bookstore.
	She had the ability to be intuitive and psychic, but nothing like this had ever happened.
	And so we continued.
	I didn't know what to make of it.
	I didn't know if she was making it up, if she was crazy.
	But we continued to Portland three days later, and we were in a hotel.
	And I said, do you want to try that again?
	So I took a tape recorder out and I said, does anybody want to talk to me?
	That was my opening line.
	And again, there was an answer through her and said, we're here.
	And I said, how come my girlfriend can do?
	Oh, I said it.
	I said the G word.
	Oh, you're in for it.
	How come my personal relationship can do this?
	How come my significant other?
	Right.
	And they said that Daphne was from another dimension.
	She incarnated into this realm to bring these messages through.
	And this was a very important connection.
	And actually, they said it in a much more sophisticated way.
	I mean, it was so sophisticated.
	I couldn't imagine she could make it up.
	Now, I have to say, an awful lot of us, you know, Wynne, in that situation, those of us who are on the sort of more grounded plane, would be inclined to find ourselves another significant other at that point.
	You know, we would, a lot of us be out of that door so fast, you wouldn't be able to see us for STEAM, I would have thought.
	But you didn't do that.
	Well, I didn't do it.
	No.
	In fact, the next thing I asked them is I said, how do I know she's not crazy?
	Can you guys predict a newspaper headline?
	And they said, yes.
	And I said, go ahead.
	And they said, watch for this headline in two weeks.
	And two weeks later, the headline appeared.
	And what was the headline?
	When?
	You know what?
	People are going to have to go to my website and look at my little 15-minute video where I have the headline up there.
	And, you know, I want to encourage people to download my book.
	I have a free book.
	I am so, this is influencing so many people that all I can do on your show is to make people curious.
	Oh, no, that's cool.
	And we can do the references, the website links, all the rest of it right at the back end of this.
	You've got to tell me the headline or at least give me a clue what it might have been.
	Well, they predicted kind of a semi-disaster of something that was going to happen in two weeks.
	And it was a little cryptic, and I didn't understand it.
	But two weeks later, when it happened, it was so precise that I said, okay, they were on.
	Well, for the next six months, she would be tapping me on the shoulder and telling me, those guys want to talk to you again.
	I'm pulling out my tape recorder and I'm asking questions.
	And I'm asking questions about everything under the sun.
	But in particular, I was asking them who they were.
	And then I was asking them about the book I was writing and the premises of the book.
	Because although I was sure this guy was Edgar Casey and the source that was speaking through him was very, very wise.
	And I knew they were wise.
	You would know they were wise if you read the book.
	It's just like the cosmology, I couldn't prove.
	I mean, I didn't know how to accept the cosmology except to tell people, here's what they say, you decide.
	Okay, so there you were, just like Patrick McGoon in The Prisoner, you know, that old TV series, and you're saying, you know, whose side are you on?
	Who are you?
	And all the rest of it.
	And are they giving you answers that make any sense?
	Well, they're giving me answers that are kind of blowing my mind, okay?
	It's like I couldn't believe them initially, but they didn't ask me to believe them.
	They said, just keep asking us questions.
	So they said they were the council of Elohim.
	And I googled the word Elohim, and I found a couple of references, lots of References where it said it was the name for God in the Old Testament.
	It was the name for God that the Mormons use, and that they were the creators of the physical universe.
	Now, just remind us again, you said the first experience was in 2002.
	Remind me, and there's a reason why I'm asking you this, when this was, would that have been 2003?
	Was it still the same year?
	Still the same year.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Well, you know that now 10 years later, there are an awful lot of people, including some that I've talked to on this show, including some that I know and have not and will not talk to, who claim that they are connected to the Elohim.
	It seems to be the big idea that's floating around.
	But from what you're saying, it sounds like you were there first.
	Well, I'm sure there were other people.
	There may have been other.
	Let me clarify something about channeling, because this is something I learned and that very few people understand unless they hear it.
	When a voice speaks through somebody, it doesn't matter who they say they are, because they may not be who they say they are.
	There is a huge amount of spectrum in other dimensions filled with negative beings who have agendas, and they will imitate, mimic positive beings.
	So if somebody says they're Jesus, test it out.
	If somebody says they're talking to the yellow hem, don't believe it.
	Test it.
	Hold on, though.
	Assuming that the yellow heme exists and assuming that darker negative energies exist as well, how are we here with our capabilities able to put them through an exam to test them for whether they are correct, whether there's any veracity there, whether there's any truth?
	Well, the best way to do it is, first of all, follow your gut reaction.
	A positive source has no agenda.
	It does not create fear.
	And a negative source may look that way.
	This is where it gets tricky.
	The best way, if you're attracted to something, never ever decide it's credible.
	Give it a few months of checking it out.
	It's kind of like, you ever run into a con man?
	I'm sure you have.
	One or two.
	Con men always look good at the beginning, but over a period of time, who they really are presents itself.
	And also, I know I'm a little bit sensitive in this way, but whenever I've met people like that, and I have to say some of them have been connected with the radio industry, which will be no surprise to people who are in the radio industry, you always get, or I always get, that feeling about them at the very beginning.
	And then, hey, a little down the track, I'm proved to be right.
	Right.
	So it's the same thing with channelings.
	And the bottom line, if something is a positive source, it should be delivering something to you that you can use, that you can apply to your life, and you see a positive effect from it.
	If it's saying follow me or fear, or if you don't do this, you're going to go to hell, it is most definitely not a positive source.
	All right.
	Well, look, you were given a piece of information through that newspaper headline that came right.
	That thing happened.
	You say it was very specific.
	I'll take your word for that.
	Why didn't they give you some positive news, some upside news, some good news for you?
	Maybe, why didn't they tell you that you're going to find a $50 bill?
	Is there a $50 bill?
	I guess there is.
	In the street.
	Why didn't they tell you something good like that?
	Well, a funny thing is, is when they did that headline, and we were really struggling for money at the time, and I decided, I thought this might be really important.
	And I asked them, couldn't you guys help me with the horse races?
	No, that's more like it.
	And what they said was, they said, that would bring me back into patterns of past lives, which were not in the best interests of what my mission was going to turn into this lifetime.
	And in retrospect, I can see that.
	Because if I kept asking them and they told me how to make money, it would make me not a spiritual influence on people.
	You know, there's no secrets.
	Everybody knows everything.
	Yeah, but it wouldn't make you rich.
	And that's not all that bad, is it?
	Well, you know what?
	I'm not against being rich, but the deal is that if you're going to be a...
	Very hard.
	People are so skeptical.
	And part of what I'm doing now requires to win people's trust as a human, not just as a deliverer of extra ET out of this world data.
	Because it's the trust as a human that makes people reach for this other information.
	Can I ask you, though, what did the LOEM, and we've heard them referred to here before for various reasons, but people listening to the show will remember that if they've listened to them all.
	What did they tell you they were?
	And what did they tell you they were here to do?
	And what did they tell you about what they were there to do with you?
	Three questions in one.
	Well, let me see here.
	They explained that they were a group of energies.
	They're not bodies, they're energies.
	And they're energies at, for lack of better understanding, the center of the universe.
	And one of the themes of this work is that the universe is made of one energy.
	It's subdivided and subdivided and subdivided.
	And in many parts of the universe, and particularly at the level of the Elohim group, the energies, the individuated energies, are aware they're part of each other.
	It's kind of like if you're married and you feel your wife, you know you're part of your wife.
	If you have a good marriage, she's part of you, and you live in that awareness and it makes you a lot happier.
	And if you're alienated and separated, you feel lonely, you know, you're depressed.
	And so, in our realm, in the earth realm, because of the way the universe evolved, people have ended up losing this connection with the oneness, the connection with each other.
	When you can, not in your head, not in your brain, not as an idea, but when you can actually experience that you are part of other people, the end result is compassion and care.
	And this realm, to a large extent, has lost that quality where people are competitive, they're against each other, it's dog-eat-dog.
	And so the Elohim have an energy that we can become one with their energy, just like we can become one.
	Now, let me ask you this, and let's just ground it one more time.
	And I find what you're saying absolutely fascinating.
	Of course I do.
	However, if the Elohim were there and were that powerful, then they let all that stuff happen.
	All that individual stuff, all that dog-eat-dog, all that garbage that we come across every day in our day-to-day lives.
	They stood by and let that happen, didn't they?
	Well, yes and no.
	And I'll tell you how that occurred.
	My book actually explains how they created the universe, which no one will understand, but you'll be very impressed because you say, where did this information come from?
	Prior to the universe, the Elohim were millions of individual souls or entities or energy units that were kind of like in this floaty space.
	They didn't think of themselves as God.
	They were just, you know, their experience of each other was like our experience of each other down here, except that they were aware that they were part of each other.
	But there was no persistence.
	Persistence was something that everything was there in the moment and gone there and gone there and gone.
	So their challenge was, they said, how do we create persistence?
	And so they were experimenting on how to combine energies, frequencies, and they found out that if the two of them created frequencies aimed at something, it would create a node, and the node would become an independent point in space-time that would exist outside of them.
	So as this was creating, this was the beginning of the universe, and as beings were in the universe, they were creating free will.
	They did not want to control it.
	And because of free will, and I don't think they knew exactly what was going to come, that's what made it interesting for them.
	So hold on, this is a little bit like they were doing what we're trying to do now, and we're trying to create and have to an extent succeeded in creating AI, artificial intelligence.
	You're saying they got to a stage where they created this node that was a piece of artificial intelligence, i.e.
	us, that then began to think and feel and act independently of them.
	Well, you know what?
	It's more complicated than that.
	You know what?
	This is one of those things that we could do a whole show on, and it is really fascinating, but I'll try to give a little bit of feeling for it.
	I mean, the first node was not a person.
	It was probably a galaxy or a planet or God knows what.
	But the creation of humans had to do with the beginning of DNA, and the DNA became something that could be programmed with energy so that there was an independent being that was starting to evolve in this realm.
	And so they didn't just say, let there be man.
	They're very scientific.
	It was very complicated.
	And they wanted to let these beings evolve of their own nature.
	Now, the thing that screwed it up, the reason it got screwed up was because in this realm, because of possessions and because of power, the beings started to separate themselves because unlike in the other realms where it's just all spirit and there's nobody owns anything, in this realm, either I own it or you own it.
	And it was the competition for money, for women, for power, for recognition that started to create alienation and all the downside of this realm.
	Now, look, I have a lot of people who are very sympathetic, as indeed am I, but I do have a lot of skeptics listening to this show, and they will say, and I can almost see them typing their emails now, they will say, you were looking for an explanation as to why so much in this world and this life ain't so great.
	And between you and your significant other, you deluded yourselves into believing that this is how things are.
	Well, you know, we have, there's parts of the story here that we jumped over.
	And I think we should go back and I should tell you some things in the story.
	And, you know, the idea is that in the highest experience of being in a body, you are an energy field that can actually go into the higher realms and be connected to the Elohim or other high beings up there, or even negative beings.
	In other words, everybody has a body with an energy field.
	And our senses are designed to pay attention to our body.
	And we have to learn about our energy fields indirectly.
	I mean, you know, when you're Talking to a guest.
	Some guests, there's great energy, and some there isn't.
	And it's like thud.
	But you probably pick your guests carefully so you have good energy.
	Can I let you into something just to interrupt very, very briefly?
	You're so right.
	And you know how I tend to do it?
	Instinct.
	And most of the time, I won't say all of the time, but that feeling is a guide.
	And that's how I do it.
	I do it by instinct.
	I do it by gut feeling.
	And quite often, that little voice that says, this person's going to be okay.
	This person's going to be entertaining.
	This person will make the audience think.
	And that's how I do it.
	So, yeah, I get that.
	And what is the instinct?
	Or you could call it intuition.
	That is your interface with other dimensions.
	Okay.
	It downloads as a flash.
	It downloads as a gut level feeling.
	And you have that mastered.
	So in a sense, you are already interfacing with your higher energy bodies.
	All right.
	Here's another crazy example.
	I used to do a lot of news on the radio in London.
	And sometimes I would do things that hadn't really been done before on the radio here.
	Very complicated mixes of audio, guests bringing them all together.
	And I'd do them in no time at all.
	And sometimes I'd set myself massively high targets.
	This is when I was working on the biggest morning drive show in London.
	And I would kind of reach beyond myself.
	And my colleagues thought that I was nuts, and they might be right.
	And I would kind of say, okay, I need this to happen.
	I don't quite know how it's going to happen.
	I need this to happen.
	And quite often I come off the radio.
	This is absolutely true.
	And I've told people this many times, you know, off air.
	Sometimes I come out of that little booth where I was broadcasting from and I'd say to people, I don't know how that happened.
	That's an example, I think, of what you're talking about.
	It's plugging into something.
	What happens is, as I've come to understand it, is that when you create an intention, intention is one of the most powerful tools that a human has for changing themselves and changing the world.
	Because an intention penetrates the veil of separation.
	Actually, the negative uses intentions just as much as the positive.
	And intention starts working in other dimensions and it starts attracting synchronicities.
	I'll bet you've had a lot of synchronicities, have you not, Howard?
	Oh, yes.
	Yes.
	How do synchronicities work?
	It's a mystery.
	Well, this is my best way of explaining it.
	You've created an intention, and on the other side, your energy is moving around.
	And then, I mean, I used to have these all the time.
	And I drive through town and say, I'm going to stop in that restaurant.
	I don't know why, but I'm going to stop there.
	And then I meet somebody in the restaurant who was answering something I wished would happen to me.
	So it's like a back and forth flow of information where you don't even realize it's happening.
	You get an intuition, you get a hunch, you get a flash, and you do something.
	And suddenly something happens that shouldn't have happened.
	It's so unlikely.
	I totally get exactly what you're saying because that has happened a thousand times to me and I just expect it now.
	But, you know, my more rationalist listeners and my friends who are very rationalist will say that is known as coincidence.
	Well, you know what?
	It's like you have to look at statistical improbabilities.
	It could be coincidence.
	If it happened one time, it might be coincidence.
	If it keeps happening, then it's more than you can't pass it off a coincidence.
	I could go into a whole story here of all the events that happened in my life when I was younger that convinced me of this.
	I didn't understand it in the way that I'm explaining it to you now, but convinced me at the time that there was a lot more going on in the universe than my conscious mind could even begin to comprehend.
	I'll give you an example.
	I'll give you an example of one of the things that happened to me.
	You know, I don't know if you read this about me, but I'm a songwriter.
	I write great songs, and for a long time, I wanted to change the world through music.
	And I used to hitchhike around the country, and I used to stop in little coffee shops and bars.
	And my life at that time, when I was hitchhiking, was in a constant state of miracle.
	I couldn't believe it.
	And it's like what happened was I let go of all my grounding, and I just said, I'm casting my faith to the winds.
	And I didn't know what would happen.
	It was scary when I first did it.
	I said, if there's a God, I want to prove it.
	And so it did.
	And then I went to Los Angeles and I decided I was good enough to be successful.
	And I had some songs recorded.
	And I ended up having a liaison with one of the most famous songwriters in the world.
	His name was Brian Holland.
	And he wrote, he was part of the Motown team, Hollandozi Holland.
	Hollandozier, yeah.
	Hollandosia Holland.
	He wrote all the songs for the Supremes and the Forts.
	Fortunes, yeah.
	So what happened was I dropped a tape off in his office, and then I went down to the coffee shop about two blocks away, and I'm looking like a hippie.
	If you look at my website, you can see some of my old hippie pictures.
	And I sit down as a counter, and I'm drinking coffee, and there's this guy next to me, and he looks at my raggle-taggle guitar case, and I'm telling him all these stories of how I was hitchhiking around the country, and I came to LA.
	And he says, I write some songs.
	And I said, oh, did you ever have anything recorded?
	And he says, my name is Brian Holland.
	And yeah, I had a few things recorded.
	Well, now, that could look like coincidence, right?
	It was a coffee shop two blocks away.
	Well, he said he was going to listen to my tape.
	We ended up getting into a rapport.
	I would come into his office.
	We would start writing some things together.
	He took me under his wing, and I was sure I was going to be successful.
	And about six months later, I used to take a walk on Venice Beach.
	Oh, I know it well.
	How lovely.
	This one couldn't be coincidence, no chance of it.
	I was at the end of my walk, and it was a very hot day, and I went into a bar, which I never do, and I drank a beer, which I never do.
	And I started talking to the woman next to me, and she was really friendly, which never happens.
	And she took me home with her.
	It's the one time in my life that I ever went home with a woman in a bar, okay?
	And her name was Pat.
	Okay.
	And I started seeing her.
	I liked her.
	And so about a month into it, she was moving into her girlfriend's condo, which was in this very luxurious place called the Marina City Club in Marina Del Rey.
	And I continued to see her.
	One day, I left her house or left her unit, and I'm walking down the hallway, and I glance at the door of the unit next to hers, and there was an envelope on the door addressed to Brian Holland.
	Okay.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Now, you know, I told him that.
	He knew that I had a girlfriend that was next door to his condo.
	And in his mind, God must have sent me.
	How could I possibly do that, right?
	Of millions of people in LA.
	I pick up a woman.
	I actually say she picked me up.
	I wouldn't have the courage.
	And there's that circular connection.
	Listen, Wynne, just before you tell me the rest of this, can I ask you, there's a little bit of knocking going on at times.
	Are you banging a table or something?
	is you making points.
	It tends to happen as you're Maybe you're just kind of knocking the mouthpiece, but whatever.
	It's not serious, but okay, so there you are.
	Brian Holland.
	You met him.
	Then you meet this woman in a bar on Venice Beach, and there is a complete circular tie-round to him.
	I don't understand how that could happen.
	Well, I mean, if I was trying to reverse engineer it, okay, I would say that she already had the girlfriend that lived next door to him.
	I was attracted to going to the bar because somewhere on my high self-level, I was picking this up, but nowhere in my conscious self.
	I sat next to her and we had an affinity.
	And she already had the girlfriend, and maybe it was in the cards that she was going to move, and somehow that occurred.
	And this is the way synchronicities happen, these totally random events that suddenly have complete statistical improbability.
	But there are people who call that the collective consciousness.
	They say that we're all linked in this way because our minds are far more powerful than we believe.
	I don't understand where the LOE and beings beyond us come into that.
	Well, I'm going to tell you.
	I'm glad you asked.
	Here's what I've learned.
	I had totally disconnected.
	I was fairly disconnected from what you could call consensus reality.
	In other words, I was a gypsy bum writing songs, okay?
	And that's all I was doing.
	And all I wanted to do was write songs that changed the world.
	I had experienced this so much stuff and I was trying to convert it into music.
	And my intention was working.
	It brought me into Brian Holland's sphere.
	Well, if two people, when you're trying to break into a more rigid structure like consensus reality, it's very hard because your intention starts going against other people who have their reality system and they don't allow this stuff to occur.
	Well, if two people have the same intention, if three people have the same intention, it creates a group energy and it creates far more power in making an intention manifest.
	And both the negative in this realm and the positive use this as a vehicle to bring about things they'd like to happen.
	What does the negative do?
	They have satanic circles, group intentions.
	What do witches do?
	I mean negative witches, witches that want to control people, create spells.
	They create covens and they create intentions.
	Now, group energy makes intentions more powerful.
	If you learn to connect with a very high source like the Elohim, the Elohim actually have an energy that you can feel if you learn to pick up their frequency.
	Now, it took me quite a few years to figure this out.
	It's not something they told me.
	I figured it out just by situations.
	And I'll tell you one of the situations, the first one that blew my mind.
	But let me just go with the principle, then I'll go back and tell you.
	They have an energy that they can flow into this realm, but they need a receiver.
	They need someone to feel it, to connect.
	And when somebody connects, it becomes like if you create an intention for the high, their requirement is that your intention is for the highest good of all concerned and honoring free will.
	Those two things, they can add to your intention.
	And so now you don't just have you, or even if you have a group of people coming together, creating a group intention, if you create a group intention and you can bring in their energy, you have an enormous power in your intention.
	And you can see how the idea of God got started and how prayer got started, because that is how that actually works.
	The Elohim Is a group soul of millions and millions of individual entities that they were the beginning creation of this realm and they saw it going south.
	They saw it screwing up and they saw all the stuff that was happening and they wanted to make themselves available to help shift things.
	So they needed to create someone down here who could pick up their energy and then share that energy with other people because it's like psychic.
	It's kind of like when you're connected with something, then that's in your space if you're really connected.
	Like if you're married, you know how it feels if you have a good marriage, you're connected to your wife, and you feel better because of that connection and she feels better.
	Group energy is like one of the key things in this realm that can help people grow, do better, have miraculous things happen.
	And when you have group energy and then you connect with a source like the Elohim who can do that, then you have a miracle-making machine.
	And what happens, you said there were negative entities, and many people I've spoken to on this show would, for different reasons, concur with that, yes, there are.
	Presumably then, there is a way to use, as you said, with all those rituals, satanic rituals and all the rest of it, there is a way to tap into the other side of it and make bad things happen.
	And if that is so, then there are two opposite poles here.
	Who's going to win?
	Well, here's the way it works.
	The negative has the ability to lie, to misrepresent, masquerade, fool, and create fear.
	But the positive, the high sources are much more of them than the negative.
	But they have to come in in a different way.
	If enough people were connecting to these sources in this realm, the realm would transform.
	And what happens is when they make a connection with someone, and it's a real connection, and the person is using that connection in the highest manner, and we could look at religious figures throughout history.
	They would always say, we're all brothers, which is another way of saying we're all from the same energy.
	Shortly thereafter, the religion gets corrupted.
	Why does it get corrupted?
	Because negative sources start talking to people.
	I know this happens down the line, you know, 50 years later, 20 years later, and they say, we're the same source that spoke to Jesus, and we've chosen you, and we need your help, and you're the chosen religion, and we need you to change the world.
	And, you know, this doesn't ever get written in history, but this is why things get corrupted so quickly.
	It's so hard for them to create the positive impact in this realm that is the potential.
	Now, I was going to tell you how I discovered their energy.
	This started in 2002.
	And for two years, I was just asking questions.
	Every other day, and also I didn't mention this, so I should include this.
	Daphne, who was this person I was on this trip to Oregon with, after six months, she left me.
	But we had one very profound incident before she left me.
	And all this period of time, I was just asking questions, and I'm thinking, they really can't be who they say they are.
	Before we went our separate ways, about two months before, I got a call from my brother-in-law, and he said, my sister was going in the hospital, and they didn't think she was going to survive this operation.
	Well, I decided, I'm going to ask them, can you help my sister?
	Now, this was like a test.
	I didn't expect anything to happen, but they answered and they said they could.
	You had this called about your sister.
	Yeah, and so my sister survived the operation.
	And I said, well, this is just coincidence.
	She was going to survive anyway.
	And I went on.
	I wasn't about to say that they did anything.
	And then a few weeks later, I got another call from my brother-in-law.
	And he said something really strange happened.
	And that was Joanne had to go in for tests to see if the cancer was coming back.
	And the nurse said she's totally clear of cancer, but there's something wrong with the test.
	And then they kept retesting her, and they couldn't make the test come out differently because her lupus disappeared.
	And lupus never goes away.
	Well, that's when I just said, okay, I think that I don't know if they're the Elohim, but I think they did something.
	And I went back and I asked them, I said, how did you guys do that?
	And they said, we projected a filter into her blood and we filtered the lupus out.
	And I was really struck.
	I said, that's who am I talking to?
	I've never heard anyone, the channels or anyone say, report anything like that.
	And did you tell her doctors that that is what had happened?
	Well, I told my sister and my brother-in-law.
	Up to that point, by the way, they had no idea I was having these conversations.
	I was not talking about it.
	I didn't tell her that they said they would help.
	I didn't, you know, there were very few people I talked.
	I was already, put yourself in my shoes for a moment.
	I'm writing this book, The Reincarnation of Edgar Casey.
	And two years into writing it, the book's not published yet.
	I don't have a publisher.
	Two years into writing it, I'm talking to this voice that said they created the physical universe.
	And it sounded like I was the biggest wacko out there.
	I thought no one will take me credibly if I tell this story.
	And so I didn't tell my sister, but I did Tell her after this happened.
	And I said, they said they did it.
	And another interesting thing, another interesting point, when my sister got out of the hospital for the first operation, she went to a rehabilitation home and I started calling her every day and I started telling her jokes.
	And I called myself the cheer-up committee.
	And I told her she had to repeat the jokes to the nurses.
	And she did.
	And she became like the most popular patient there.
	And when I further queried the Elohim about this, they said, if I didn't do the cheer-up committee, they couldn't have done the healing with her.
	And they said that allowed the energies to flow, allowed her to become joyous enough so she could connect with their energies.
	So, you know, there's a two-way street here when it comes to interaction with them.
	It's not like, God, please do this, please do that, and that they can do anything, although I'm still exploring and learning this.
	Well, I wanted to mention when the reincarnation of Edgar Casey came out, which was two years later, I gave my first talk on the book.
	And I was not talking about my personal experience.
	I had no idea how to broach it, how to bring it in.
	So I gave a talk in San Diego about the book.
	And while I was talking, I could see this energy in the room.
	Huge energy.
	It was like surrounding the room.
	It was dancing around people.
	As people were filing out of the room to buy books, they were coming up to Terry.
	And I haven't even told you about Terry.
	I should go back and mention that.
	They were lining up and they were saying, I could see auras in the room.
	I never saw auras before.
	That must be light when people talk about light.
	And it happened the second time and the third time I gave a talk.
	So finally, I did a session and I asked them, I said, could you explain that light that people were experiencing in the room?
	And they said, that was us.
	We were helping you.
	And I mean, I went into shock.
	I said, they were no longer just an intelligence speaking to me.
	They were an energy that they could project from where they were into the room.
	People would file out of the room and say they could see it.
	They could feel the energy.
	It wasn't just me.
	Now, you might have been hearing some noises, not very loud ones, but just like sort of bumps, like somebody tapping a table during our conversation and win.
	We've tried to get rid of those, but it's nothing that's happening at your end, is it?
	That's what you told me.
	Right.
	So what do you think that might be?
	I got no idea.
	But all I know is that what I'm putting out is very provocative, very controversial, and it's stuff that can free people.
	This is what I've learned, I believe, can free people from some of the contraction in this realm.
	Hold on, hold up.
	Contraction in this realm.
	What does that mean?
	Well, you know, I talked about energy fields, and everyone has an energy field that can expand ad infinitum.
	There's something around the earth which some people refer to as the veil, and it keeps people contracted, and it keeps their energy fields close to their bodies or in their near vicinity.
	It doesn't allow it to move into celestial realms easily.
	And this is by design of the negative.
	Television, media, all this stuff keeps you contracted, creates a reality system that doesn't really allow for the possibility of what I'm talking about.
	And that it is possible for someone to break out of this reality system.
	And the easiest way to do it is to feel the energies of these celestial sources, which are out of this system.
	That's the greatest benefit someone can have.
	Isn't that a kind of new age way of putting something that people have been saying for years?
	And that something is, if you believe it, you can achieve it.
	Well, that's not necessarily true because you can believe, well, maybe it's true.
	But my experience is that the best way to learn how to expand is to be around a situation where someone else is doing that.
	Because then there is an intuitive psychic interchange that you start to feel and you start to entrain to these new energies.
	And that's how you learn how to do it.
	For example, if I told you to meditate and you haven't learned how to do this, the chances are you'll sit there and meditate.
	You'll be bouncing around in your own little prison no matter how long you meditate.
	And where's God?
	You can't get out.
	You're in your box.
	You need a reference point of how it feels to be out of your box.
	Some of you have gone to a group meditation and felt energy.
	Some of you have been to a movie that was very inspiring.
	And that inspiring movie creates a group energy in the audience.
	And everybody leaves that movie and they're expanded.
	And you look at everybody and you can feel the psychic interchange of how the movie created a certain state of oneness.
	So I'm suggesting that you can create that without an external influence provoking it.
	And that, you know, when I started to learn about what was happening in the room, and what was great about it is people were exhilarated.
	It wasn't just an energy.
	They came in depressed and they would leave not depressed.
	And I asked them, I said, could I do this on a conference call?
	Could you work with people on a conference call?
	And they said they could.
	So I started experimenting doing conference calls.
	And right now, I'm doing three conference calls a week.
	I actually talk to them live in front of people.
	It's actually broadcast on the internet three times a week.
	And on our Sunday morning call, it's designed to bring in the energies.
	And I learned how to do this.
	I didn't know how to do it.
	I didn't know if it would work.
	It was a bunch of experiments on my part.
	And I get emails from people all over the world who are expanding right on that call.
	Their depressions are leaving.
	They're thanking me.
	I'm helping them.
	I'm not helping them.
	I think what I do best is show up.
	I'm not doing it, but it's happening in a co-creation with these guys.
	And somebody has to experience it themselves to understand what I mean, because it's not a normal worldly experience.
	Now, the skeptics who listen to my show, and they bend my ear quite a lot about some of the guests that I have on here, and some of them say, you let that woman or that guy off the hook far too easily.
	These conference calls, the skeptics are going to say, well, of course he's saying that, but he's only doing it to make money.
	He's trying to spread a little happiness and get a few dollars in.
	I'm not charging for the calls.
	They're free.
	Really?
	Okay.
	Well, that gets rid of that one, doesn't it?
	In fact, you know, I don't emphasize making money from this.
	I have people that sometimes give donations.
	Sometimes I sell things.
	And oftentimes things that I sell, like we have an hour conversation with them.
	I say it's $3, but you can put in your own amount.
	Make it zero.
	Just get it.
	I don't care.
	Because I don't want to create a bait system that says you have to spend all this money to make this connection.
	I'll let people be touched and moved, and then they'll decide if they want to buy something or not.
	And even if they never, ever buy anything, I give so much stuff away for free, they don't need to.
	I'm not telling people, spend money and you'll make this connection.
	Okay, well, that sounds absolutely fine.
	And I think, I'm sure I'm going to be told that I'm wrong, but I think that's probably answered that point.
	What do you think about people who very clearly, though, are making cash from this kind of stuff?
	I mean, the LOEMs seem to be the big thing at the moment.
	An awful lot of people think or say or believe that they're connected.
	And I don't believe that all of them are.
	Well, I think that if you start using this as a business, you lose the intention of service.
	Now, I can make money on this.
	I mean, I got like a bunch of people on my list.
	And if I have 10,000 people spending $3, which I never have, but if I did, I'd say, wow, I'm making a lot of money.
	But it's all in such a way that it's pretty voluntary and that people can get things for free or very little.
	In fact, except for a hard copy of something where I have to spend money and put it in the mail, like my reincarnation of Edgar Casey book, everything is downloadable.
	And so I never turn anyone down that says, I really want that.
	And I just say, get it, take it.
	So do you believe, and I think if you do, it's a very good philosophy, that you're not primarily out there to be making money, or even primarily, it's not a factor in the equation at all.
	But if you're doing good work, then you'll be looked after.
	You'll be okay.
	Well, you know what?
	It's taken me 10 years, actually.
	If I told you what I did in the 10 years, at the point that I realized it was real, and I said, and I realized it was important.
	For example, there was a guy that was doing these expos all over California called Holistic Living Expos.
	And he was endeared to my work.
	And he said, Wynn, anytime you want to come give a talk at one of my expos, just let me know.
	And if I have space, I'll put you on.
	I was driving all over California, sometimes sleeping in my car, and I was learning how to talk about it because I didn't know how to talk about it.
	You're hearing me at the top of my game now, Howard.
	But, you know, when I first started, I was almost apologetic.
	I mean.
	Well, we've all got to learn.
	Yeah.
	How do you go up in front of an audience and tell them you're talking to the source that created the universe?
	How do you do that in a way?
	And this is how I learned that if I'm introducing this to people, I tell them my story.
	And, you know, I don't try to tell them to believe anything.
	In fact, I usually say the voice that identified itself as the Elohim.
	And let the person do their own investigation and research.
	Read my free book.
	Read the free material on my website and let it develop a resonance with them.
	But seeing is believing.
	And we don't have an awful lot of time left on this.
	But seeing is believing.
	So I think a lot of people, including myself, would say, okay, I'm going to believe this if I can make some material change by way of proof in my own life.
	I mean, in my own case, it'd be nice for me to say to them, okay, you may well be out there.
	I've had this problem with my ears for months now.
	Can you help me with that?
	That doesn't sound like an unreasonable request, but would they be able to help with that?
	You know, if they did that for me and got me back on track, then, you know, they've got a believer.
	Here is somebody who would be committed to it.
	And that's just a personal example.
	There are going to be people listening to that who will feel exactly the same.
	Make something happen for me, show me, and then I believe.
	Well, you know what?
	There's an interesting comment from these higher sources.
	And what they said was, now I do have lots of people having miracles that come into my phone calls.
	And sometimes we have this thing where they send an intention to someone else who needs a healing.
	And that person doesn't even know what's Going on, and something changes.
	Like there was, I got an email last week from a lady who had two children that never got along, and they fought like cats and dogs.
	Now they're adults, and she had put this, our terminology is putting it in the light.
	Can my children get along?
	And a few days later, she gets an email from her daughter saying she got a text message from her brother that was all loving and let's make up.
	Now, you could call that coincidence or you could call it a miracle.
	From their point of view, and understand this, they don't want.
	What they said was, they said, we've done miracles in the past, and miracles are not the best way to reach people, because it turns people into blind believers, and that their best way of connecting with this realm, and they're learning themselves, they say, is to make people curious.
	Because within curiosity, it causes people to reach back.
	And the reaching back starts the energetic connection, not giving your power away to a source that can create miracles.
	So that's almost like helping the third world, isn't it?
	When we talk about helping the third world, they say, all right, well, I can give somebody who needs to eat a few dollars and they can go and buy some fast food, or I can show them how to grow their own food, and then that'll keep them fed for life.
	Same deal by the sounds of it.
	Right, right.
	When I asked them at one point, I said, do you guys really like to be worshipped?
	And they said, no.
	They said, you know, we're just a higher aspect of you.
	And you can consider us like your friends.
	And that develop a friendship with us.
	And then it enables us to work with you.
	And are you convinced that the Elohim and these beings are not a creation of our own psyche to try and rationalize an aspect of ourselves that we don't understand?
	Paradigm.
	Well, I think everyone should consider everything.
	Personally, there's been too much evidence.
	There's one thing I didn't share with you, which, you know, I said that Daphne left me after six months.
	And then a few weeks later, after being depressed and feeling heartbroken, I called my old personal relationship up.
	See, I'm being politically correct.
	And she came over and spent the night.
	See, this is where it gets so crazy.
	It becomes like, this can't be real.
	She came over, woke me up in the middle of the night, and said, get the tape recorder out.
	And this voice came through her and said it was the same Elohim, that they hadn't left me.
	What I was doing was really important.
	And I could reach them through Terry.
	So for the next couple of months, I didn't believe.
	I thought she was jealous.
	I said, there must be some other explanation.
	And I asked question after question after question.
	And I said, I think it might be the same source.
	Then at a certain point, I asked them, I said, was Terry ever anybody famous?
	And I didn't expect an answer.
	They don't answer things just because I'm curious.
	They really look at it and say, is it in his best interest to hear this?
	It's neat to know, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	I need to know.
	They said, look up St. Catherine of Siena.
	And I never heard of St. Catherine.
	I did a Google search.
	I find the story of this young woman who would go into a Catholic church in Siena, Italy, and they would write down everything she said because they thought God was speaking to them through her.
	This was St. Catherine's Dialogues with God are still available in bookstores on Amazon and became officially recognized by the Catholic Church.
	And if you read St. Catherine's dialogues, you'll find this intelligence that is trying to correct the in the Catholic Church through her.
	Sorry, we lost a word there.
	You said trying to correct.
	Correct the corruption.
	The corruption.
	Yeah.
	Now, the amazing thing is, and you can look at, I urge everyone who's skeptical to look at my website.
	Terry was the spitting image of St. Catherine.
	Spitting.
	Okay.
	Now, ask yourself, what are the chances that I ask this voice and they give me a name?
	And this person was doing a similar thing to Terry's doing this lifetime within the context of the Catholic Church.
	And she was the spitting image of St. Catherine.
	Which brings us very nicely to Edgar Casey.
	And I want to do another show with you about Edgar Casey, but just tell me in the minutes that we've got left here the connection between you and Edgar Casey.
	Edgar Casey was this prophet, this person who predicted all kinds of things, this amazing person.
	And you met somebody, you say, in this life right now, who you thought was the reincarnation of this person, just in exactly the same way.
	And you came to write the book.
	And that takes us kind of in a full circle back to the beginning of this conversation.
	How many minutes do we have?
	No more than 10.
	No more than 10.
	Well, that's enough to tell the story.
	Okay.
	Somebody sent me an email referring me to a website.
	And here is this guy talking about putting channelings up.
	He's 27 years old and had a little section, the Edgar Casey connection.
	He never said he was the reincarnation of Edgar Casey.
	He said he had a resonance with Edgar Casey.
	I read his story, and I said, if this guy is telling the truth, he has to be the reincarnation of Casey.
	And then I got a reading from him.
	And then at the time, I was writing articles for a magazine, a metaphysical magazine, and I told my editor, listen, I have the breakthrough story of the decade, and I think I've discovered the reincarnation of Edgar Casey.
	Well, she looked at his website and she said, Wynne, I think he's some kind of wacko.
	But I said, he may be a wacko, but I don't think I'm making a mistake.
	So she said, you can interview him, but I'm not going to promise to run the interview until I read your story.
	And so I wrote the, did the interview, sent her the story.
	She calls me back and she says, Oh my God, you're right.
	He has to be Edgar Casey.
	And I think you're the guy that's supposed to write the book about it.
	And that's what put the bug in my ear to write the book.
	And I'll tell you a little bit of the story that convinced me that he was Edgar Casey.
	He was living, his name is David Wilcock, and you may have even heard of him.
	He's gotten very famous.
	And actually, he never puts out his Edgar Casey thing as his frontline.
	He doesn't put out his channelings anymore as his front line, but he did when I met him.
	When the book came out, he felt his strongest suit was to present this information on the shift.
	And that's a whole other show that is really important.
	What is the shift all about?
	To present this in a scientific way.
	And also, I think he was scared of the responsibility of having been Edgar Casey because people would all think he knew all the answers, which he didn't.
	But the way the story goes, he was living in New Pulse, New York.
	He had graduated college and he became interested in dreams.
	And he started, decided he was going to keep a journal of his dreams.
	And he put a pad by his bed, and he would wake up and write things down and then go to sleep, wake up, write something else down.
	And in the morning, when he looked at what he had written down, he found out there weren't dreams.
	It seemed as if somebody was talking to him.
	And they were giving him kind of wise guidance about how to improve his life.
	And he became fascinated with this process.
	After about a week, he called it his dream voice, told him, gave him a prophecy of something that was going to happen to him.
	And they said the day it would happen and exactly what would happen.
	And it happened.
	And at that moment, he knew that whoever he was talking to was not a product of his own imagination.
	So he developed his ability to get these messages.
	And instead of writing sentences, he was writing paragraphs, full pages, and this tremendous wisdom talking to this guy.
	And his voice, his dream voice, asked him to move to Virginia Beach, which is where the Edgar Casey Institute is.
	So he moved to Virginia Beach, and people started staring at him because it turns out he was the spitting image of a young Edgar Cayce.
	And his gut started to ache.
	He started to think, uh-oh.
	Well, after about two months, he asked his voice a question, and he said, why do I look like Edgar Casey?
	I'm just paraphrasing approximately.
	That's what he said.
	And they said, because you were Edgar Casey.
	If you study Edgar Casey, you'll see all the parallels.
	But this lifetime, we'd like to ask you not to emphasize doing readings, but to be a public figure and explain to your planet this shift that's going on right now.
	Well, David freaked out.
	He started studying Edgar Casey.
	He was there right there at the Casey Institute.
	And he found out not only was he the spitting image of Edgar Casey, and by the way, in all my study of metaphysics, I never came across the idea that people looked like their past life.
	And that's because most people have no idea who they were.
	But the way it apparently works is when you die, your soul picks up your DNA imprint and holds it in its space.
	So when the soul comes into a new body, in addition to other influences, your parents, astrology, et cetera, you have the imprint of your past life in your new body as the soul comes in.
	And so I've proven myself this many times in my own unfolding, particularly like Terry was one good example of someone that was the spinning image of St. Catherine.
	And when you look at these pictures, which I urge you all to do, you'll see it's not just the physical resemblance.
	It's the eyes.
	It's the feeling of the person.
	You can actually see it in the two pictures.
	Well, David is now studying Edgar Casey.
	He finds his father looks like Edgar Casey's father.
	His friend looks like Edgar Casey's wife.
	Other people in his life look like people in Edgar Casey's life.
	Then he finds out that Edgar Casey predicted in his own readings and dreams that he would return in 1998, live in Virginia Beach, and may be a liberator of the world.
	Is that documented?
	Yeah.
	You know, it's documented in the Casey readings, okay?
	Well, if that's documented, then that is probably the greatest story ever told, isn't it?
	That's right.
	And not only that, his so now we have this source on the other side that is making this prophecy come true, that's contacting David and telling him to go to Virginia Beach.
	He ends up in Virginia Beach in November of 1997.
	And then David's astrology chart, five personal planets were in the same sign as Edgar Cayce's.
	One chance in 260,000.
	Okay, if that's all true, that is amazing.
	We're running out of time.
	What is he doing for us right now then as we come to all these planetary changes and whatever the human race may have to face on this planet?
	And I think some of us think it might not be very nice.
	What is he doing, David, now?
	Well, when the book came out, he started emphasizing science and explaining to people the scientific backup to the shift that's going on, not channeling.
	He did not want to put himself Out as a channel.
	And he wrote a book last year, I believe, called Source Field Investigations, which became a New York Times bestseller.
	And it was based on showing how all the ancient prophecies and scientific stuff indicating we're in a transition that has never happened in the history of the human race.
	So where we have to park this conversation is that David Wilcock is there to, as you say, save the planet.
	He's got a bit of a race against time on, hasn't he?
	Well, you know what?
	He's very controversial.
	I don't necessarily agree with everything he's done since the book came out and how he does it, but he's definitely influencing millions of people.
	And I want to make sure that I recommend the book, The Reincarnation of Edgar Casey.
	It's been translated into four languages.
	It's available on Amazon.
	I have a website where you can hear.
	I actually did a channeling.
	What's the website?
	Returnofedgar.com.
	Okay.
	And if you get the book on the website, you can either click through on Amazon and we get 50 cents or you can get the book with a 45-minute conversation I had where David was channeling, talking about the shift.
	Okay.
	And that's a little more money.
	Can you get me a conversation with David?
	No.
	We don't even talk anymore.
	We're in separate directions.
	You have to try yourself.
	Then on my website, my official website is intelligent-infinity.com.
	And on the first page of that website, there's my little 15-minute video, which you saw.
	And there's the opportunity to download for free my book called The Creator Gods of the Physical Universe Want to Talk to You.
	And half the book is my dialogues with them, where I ask them how they created this realm, how does prayer work, with no religiosity attached to it.
	Wynne, listen, well sold.
	Thank you very, very much.
	Lots that we've talked about, lots that we still have to talk about.
	I have to wrap it up there simply because we don't have any more time.
	I've pushed the boundaries, I think, of a webcast, podcast just about as far as you can.
	But very, very good to talk to you.
	You've certainly expanded my mind over this hour and whatever it is so far.
	Let's talk again.
	Remind people of the website to reach you.
	Intelligence-infinity.com.
	Winfrey in Arizona.
	Thank you so much for talking to me on The Unexplained.
	Boy, some food for thought there.
	The work of Winfrey there.
	And he's a guest that you suggested.
	There'll be a link to his website from my website, www.theunexplained.tv.theunexplained.tv.
	Thank you very much to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, as ever, for the superb work that he does on the website and for getting this show out to you, Adam.
	Don't know what I'd do without you.
	Thank you very, very much.
	Martin, don't know what I'd do without your theme.
	Tune, please keep in touch, my friend.
	And to you, above all, thank you for your suggestions, your support during this trying year of 2012, and for the donations that you made to the show.
	Please keep those coming.

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