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Aug. 9, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
48:48
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Britain's Utilities Crisis 00:02:37
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Jeremy Cowell, Baksunak or Trust in Trusts.
We're here live from both frontrunners to be Britain's next Prime Minister.
The heat is on in Britain's heat wave, but millions then face having to switch it off this winter.
Tonight will take on the utilities crisis.
Plus, as the FBI sensationally raids President Trump's Florida estate, I'm joined live in the studio by his former senior advisor.
Good evening, my friends.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I'm Jeremy Carl and later on more from those Tory hustings in Darlington with leadership candidates Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss.
But first tonight, let's talk water, drains, gas, electricity, heating.
These of course are the basic things we all need to exist in our homes.
The fact that we have them for me is the most basic mark of living in a developed country.
So what does it say about the UK in 2022?
That for millions of people, access to them is now seriously under threat.
You'll have heard me say hose pipes will be banned perhaps until October.
Families are being ordered to take shorter showers and turn off the taps whilst brushing their nashes.
They tell me there's a drought and sure it's hot, but there was no drought in North London yesterday as a burst water main turned this street into a boating lake.
And I have to say, I don't think there'll be a drought if the UK's nine water companies didn't waste, check this, 3.2 billion litres of water in leaks, just like that one in London.
They waste that every single day.
And those same failing companies, by the way, paid out 48 million quid to their execs in the last two years, including, unbelievably, 27 million quid in bonuses.
We wrote this.
These aren't fat cats, they're water rats.
See?
Honestly, when the summer sun subsides, the real coming storm is going to be the cost of energies.
Now, prices already have rocketed.
Last October, the bill for a typical household in the UK, covered by that price cap, was 1,277 quid.
Six months later, by April this year, that had rocketed to almost £2,000.
And look at this, by October, it's now expected to be what can only be described as a ridiculous 3,500 quid.
Today, we find out by next January, this could hit £4,200.
That is, for every family, 355 quid a month.
Soaring Energy Bills 00:09:30
Quick memo from this show to energy bosses.
It's supposed to be a price cap, not a target.
We have really grim choices ahead.
And I think for many people, they're thinking, what are we going to do about it?
Today, Labour's Angela Rainer put the absolute blame front and centre on the government's inaction.
I think it's disgraceful that Boris Johnson, as the Prime Minister, has said, it's not my responsibility anymore.
He said he needed to carry on until September.
Well, where are you?
How dare you let people down when they need you so much?
They voted and elected for you and you've just literally laughed at them when they need your support right now.
I think it's absolutely disgraceful and shows you the difference between Gordon Brown as the Prime Minister, who has come out now and said we need to do something urgently to help people and the current Prime Minister who says, not my problem.
Got to say you agree with Rainer there.
You know, our government seems to have disappeared.
We're a rudderless ship.
I'm joined now by a financial expert every night this week, Gemma Godfrey, along with former Chief Executive of Energy UK, Angela Knight.
Actually, let's start with you, Angela.
I've tried since the first day to put this in layman's terms.
There are millions of people the length and breadth of this country who will see their energy bills rise by what, £3,000 a year.
All we hear is figures and excuses.
The supply is less because of Russia, you know, French reactors.
How is it in 2022, Angela Knight, that massive companies can report billions of pounds worth of profit and not be forced by the government or other people to give that back to the consumers?
Because I don't understand it, and nor do the people watching this program tonight.
No, I agree with you.
It's a very difficult situation that we're in.
And whether we like it or not, we're caught in a world problem.
The companies that have been making a lot of money are those who take the oil and the gas out of the ground.
And they've got a certain amount of fixed cost.
And at the moment, what they're seeing is huge prices that they're being able to get for their oil and gas because the global market, the wholesale market, is as high as it is.
We buy as domestic consumers our gas and electricity from suppliers.
They're not really the drillers.
But I think that the point is a very valid one.
And that is who should be contributing to assisting people, and particularly those who are on the poorest incomes and pensioners.
And I do know that, first of all, the gas and the oil companies, that which they pull out here in the UK and where we're able to get at them from tax purposes, we're making them pay about 40% corporation tax at the moment, rising to 65%.
So between two and three times the tax that normal companies pay.
So there is something that is being done.
But Angela, that's all well and good.
And I go back to what I said at the beginning.
You said there that they get the people that take the electricity and the gas out to fix their cost.
I don't believe that morally that is right.
I believe that any business survives because of its customers.
What you are going to have in the United Kingdom are millions of people who literally cannot afford to pay this ever-increasing bill.
As a business, you would think they would go, well, we're going to lose all our customers.
So why don't we, for example, I mean, you saw me, I don't know if you heard me, 48 billion in bonuses and wages to nine water companies, 3.2 trillion water leaks a day or so.
It's utterly ludicrous for people watching this program to think, how can I stump up my bill when I'm getting nothing?
I'll bring in Gemma Godfrey with us all week.
Do you understand people's frustration, Jem?
Yeah, what happened was the government had a windfall tax to try and make sure that more money was coming from the energy providers that were making lots of money.
But then they also gave them a rebate and said, but actually if you invest in your own growth, ideally renewable, but if you invest in that, then actually you don't have to pay it.
So actually it was offset quite a lot and it isn't reaching people.
It isn't actually helping people.
And what we also saw is a lot of small suppliers, and I agree, we're not talking about the drillers here, the suppliers, but still, a lot of the smaller suppliers still went bust because they couldn't make it work.
So there's less competition in the market at that end as well, which means that when people go online and they try and find more deals, there aren't as much deals.
Over the last 12 months, whenever I've talked about the cost of living crisis, we talk about people who are struggling, people who are on benefits.
I'm always quite fixated on what we call jams, which is just about managing.
The people who don't get a handout from anybody, the people who work around the clock, probably got a couple of kids, they pay all their bills, they get absolutely no support.
I want somebody to say to me, if that family can't afford £4,200 a year, what's going to happen?
Their credit line will be destroyed, they'll be evicted.
Why aren't companies saying, unless we now, why aren't the government saying, you've made all that profit, give it back to the consumer, to sustain the business long term?
I know, and what they've done is they said, fine, we're going to give families £400.
That's the payment that people are going to get in October.
And that's not enough.
To say to people, oh, you know, take a shower rather than a bath, that'll save what, pennies, pounds?
I mean, increased by thousands.
This 400 quid, if I can bring Angela back in, if that's okay.
This 400 pound, is that across the board?
Is that for every single person in the United Kingdom?
Is that the government's idea, right?
Jeremy, it's household.
And by the way, I'm not here to defend energy companies.
I'm not here to defend water companies.
I'm here to try and give a little bit more information, which I hope will be helpful for what is for all of us, I entirely agree, a very difficult situation.
What I do expect, I mean, by the way, that £400, of course, if you're in more difficulties, you do get more than that £400.
What I'm expecting to see is another round of assistance that will start to be talked about towards the end of this month and the beginning of September.
Because whilst it's entirely correct that there's a leadership election taking place, and I absolutely agree with people, that is not helpful.
At the same time, there's still a lot of ministers in their roles.
There's still a lot of civil servants in there working.
And what will be happening, as I know from the days when I was a junior minister, junior, I say, unfortunately, you know, wasn't a senior one.
I was left with all the bad gigs to do.
But certainly when I was there, and it's exactly the same to this day, what is happening is that there will be a lot of options being worked up and worked through.
So when this leadership election is through, then there's not just choices and you think, oh, well, what do I do?
There's choices there which are known what they're going to cost, who is going to benefit, and also, and very importantly, how to put them into operation.
Because that is vital.
It's no use saying, jam tomorrow, because tomorrow never comes.
I really agree with the Angie, and I think Gemma would as well.
I mean, I don't think I haven't met anybody, by the way, who thinks that this leadership race should continue.
We have, I mean, I have a degree, I've said it already, I have a degree of sympathy for Boris Johnson because he's not allowed constitutionally to do anything fiscally between now and the 5th of September.
So we are, in many people's opinions, this ruddlish ship.
And of course, there might well be ministers and civil servants, not according to Jacob Reese Mog, they're all at home.
There might be some still working, but those decisions to hand out money.
One thing for you, Gemma, this 400 quid, this will go down like a lead balloon, it goes to everybody.
Those the hardest off get more.
But why are we giving 400 quid to millionaires?
Why are we not giving more to the jams and the people who are struggling to make ends meet?
And then people say you can't talk about means testing, Jez, but you can, can't you?
Well, and also it gets even worse than that because the payment goes to the person that's on the, they're named on the utility bill.
So people that have multiple homes are going to get multiple payments.
And people that are renting are going to have to rely on the goodwill of their landlord.
So landlords that, again, have multiple properties can also keep it.
And I'm quite interested about that mechanism because people say to me, well, it's the easiest way.
So I'm not having a go.
Sunak will get 1200 quid because he's got three houses.
And somebody who's poverty struck, you know, can't afford anything will get 400 quid.
To me, that's not well thought out.
And I, you know, just very quickly to finish, I mean, we do this every night and I'm delighted to have you on.
Is there any constructive advice you can give people at this time in terms of utilities?
Absolutely.
Constructive advices don't just not pay because missed payments and being in default and in debt, it can affect credit scores and things like that.
So what I would say is there are six things I'll run through quickly that utility providers should do.
First of all, they should review your payments to make sure it's affordable.
Secondly, they can reduce the payments if they're not.
Thirdly, give you more time.
Fourth, they give you access to hardship funds.
Fifth, they can give you advice on how to use less energy and water.
And finally, if not, if you're vulnerable, they should be able to give extra support as well.
So that's a very important thing.
This is, of course, all constructive if you can get through on the phone to them.
But whether you can or not, literally, we wanted to start with this tonight.
It's affecting everybody.
Angela Knight, former chief executive of Energy UK.
And Gemma, Godfrey, financial expert, back tomorrow in the studio.
Both of you, thank you so much indeed for taking part.
Tomorrow night actually we're going to talk about the cost crisis continues.
An expert panel will break down the impact on the NHS amid severe warnings today of a staffing emergency, a backlog of councilled operations and a surge, this is unbelievable, in DIY dentistry.
This is 2022.
There are people taking their own teeth out because they can't get a dental appointment.
Broken Political Promises 00:15:34
Unbelievable.
Right, next and uncensored Liz Truss, Foreign Secretary and frontrunner in the Tory leadership and Richie Sunak live from those hustings in Darlington, only here on Talk TV.
We're coming right back.
Welcome back, my friends.
Now we've looked absolutely everywhere and we just can't find it.
We've scoured the streets, we've scaled the hills, we've scanned the skies, we've retraced all of our last steps.
All of us here have emptied our pockets, we've turned the sock drawer inside out and we've even scraped around in that crusty bit at the back of the sofa.
Ladies and gentlemen, the British government cannot be found.
Britain is a rudderless ship, a plane without a pilot, a homing pigeon with no home.
Do you like that?
Boris Johnson is still the PM, but he can't do anything because he's about to be kicked out.
And apparently nobody else can do anything because the Conservative Party hasn't decided who's going to move in.
Whoever does though get into number 10 on the 5th of September will be entering the House of Horrors.
And I'm not talking about Carrie's Golden Wallpaper.
The intro for Britain's next Prime Minister looks like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
Inflation heading for 13%, a war in Europe, 4 million waiting for surgeries, a migrant crisis in the channel.
We've got no trains, no dentists, no water apparently.
And even Piers Morgan's on strike.
And looming large above it all, the big theme of our show this week, of course, the cost of living crisis that's hammering each and every one of us.
And it's happening now, today, not in September.
I'm beginning to wonder why either Liz or Rishi even want the job.
Never mind what they're going to do when they get it.
Tonight, we might just find out.
Both contenders are currently speaking to Talk TV's matinee idol, Tom Newton Dunn, at a hustings show down in Darlington, who wrote that.
In just a moment, we'll hear live from frontrunner Liz.
But first, here's what Rishi Sunak had to say earlier.
What I won't do is pursue policies that risk making inflation worse and last far longer, especially if those policies simply amount to borrowing tens and tens of billions of pounds, putting them on the country's credit card and asking our kids and our grandkids to pick up the tab.
In a moment, we'll be crossing to Darlington, where Tom Newton Dunn will be speaking to Liz Truss as I said.
But first, let's speak to Jesus Jonos, Marina Perkis, and Emma Webb.
Ladies, welcome.
I'm going to start with you, Marina.
You're going to love this.
Richie Sudak, the gloves are off, has just said, and I quote, Boris Johnson was responsible for his own downfall because he lied to the government.
That's what Sunak's just said.
Enables Boris Sunak and the rest of them, though.
I actually feel like, well done, Sunak, you're actually saying something there, but let's not forget he was loyal with him until the point when it wasn't beneficial to him.
And then he cut his tires.
These lot, they're as loyal as their options, as their career options.
I wouldn't trust a single one of them.
Really interesting.
Welcome.
Lovely to see you.
Sunak's campaign's quite interesting.
To me, it's not been proactive, it's been reactive.
I know about the problems with Liz Truss, but seemingly with Sunak, he sort of got the MPs behind him, looked like he thought it was a cakewalk, and then has sort of panicked and is coming out.
I mean, that's a massive thing for him to now be criticising Boris Johnson, who's criticised by everybody.
But as Marina quite rightly said, he lived off his coattails for years and then did what he did.
And I said, and we haven't spoken since for many reasons, but I always thought that the person who actually did the dirty would never be trusted by the Tory faithful, would they?
Never.
I think it's interesting because one of the issues that is at stake here for the Conservative Party is an issue of trust.
And so, in many ways, Rishi Sunak is very close to Boris Johnson.
He is perceived as being very close to a lot of the scandals that unfolded around that particular government and that particular cabinet.
And what I find very interesting about this is that it almost and in many ways this is another problem that the Conservatives face is that it takes the voters for granted in a way.
It seems to at least portrays the appearance that the electorate are being taken for being stupid.
We can see through that.
Well, people can see that this is a career politician at work.
Well, this is what I would really love, and I know Tom's going to stand by just a tick to talk to Liz Truss.
I don't know if politicians understand the depth of misery, worry, and concern in this country.
More than half of households, this is a fact, will be plunged into fuel poverty by January.
That is half of the people leaving this country.
Now, much as this race, in my humble opinion, has gone on far too long.
I don't, I mean, I hear about tax cuts and tax rises, and I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and I'm going to support the great spotted owl competition.
What about the people, as I said earlier, who are literally, literally not going to be able to pay what they apparently owe, whilst these fat cats are making billions?
It doesn't work, does it?
Jeremy, they aren't the people voting in the next PM.
This is what happens when you've got two PM candidates who are basically speaking to 0.3% of the electorate who aren't the ones that are going to be hit the hardest from this cost of living crisis.
So they don't need to speak to them.
They don't need to appeal to them.
But they do forget that, you know, the rest of us, we're watching and we can see that your measures that you're being forced into proposing is like having your house on fire and chucking a bottle of Evian over it.
They go nowhere near far enough.
And as you touched upon earlier, nothing's targeted.
They are wasting so much money.
So Liz Truss, with her proposed national income reversal, that's going to cost £13 billion in the Treasury, £13 billion.
Six of every seven pounds of that goes towards higher income or higher income earners, basically.
It's a complete, they're not thinking this through this.
It's like just touring lack of joint thinking.
It looks like it's made up on the hoof.
I think, listen, my colours are out.
Liz Trust will end up in 10 down his streets.
Sunak will never be trusted.
He's at it again, though.
I've just heard Amir.
This is brilliant.
Sunak opened up tonight by saying, I declare war on those lefties.
I against all this woke.
We're cancelling our history and we're cancelling our women.
He's got more circles than a bag of pretzels, this man, hasn't he?
To be fair?
He's a random change changer.
What's that all about?
The public can sense sincerity.
And I think the issue here, and I go back to the point about career politicians, is that people can sense when a politician is taking a position because they believe that it is politically advantageous to do so.
And that's what Rishi Sunak lacks.
Whereas in most cases, I think Liz Truss really does have a political philosophy and does, for the most part, believe in what she's saying.
However, the issue really here is that these two candidates that are going to be presented to the public are not the candidates that the Tory membership wanted.
They're not the members' choice.
The members' choice was between Penny Morden and Kemi Badenock, and Kemi Badenock being a very principled politician with a political philosophy.
And so I think actually that there's a real deep problem in our politics in that our parties across the board do not represent the electorate and that that is going to cause trust problems across the board from a lot a much much further down the road than just this leadership election.
Marina, if you're right, both are tainted by association with Boris Johnson.
You've heard my conspiracy theory.
He'll become the envoy to Ukraine for two years and then come back when it's a hung parliament.
Kemi Badenock, I thought, did such a great job in those leadership campaigns and was real and something new.
And for you, I mean, you'd have them all gone.
I get that.
And I listen, more than anything, and I get told I know nothing constitutionally.
I'm very much with you, Marina, how 180,000 people paying 25 quid to be a Tory member can decide on the next prime minister or government in this country.
And I know the manifesto was about the Tory party, but that was blatantly ignored.
Boris Johnson got 14 million votes.
I've always believed that if you get rid of your leader and you shouldn't install them in number 10, there should be an election.
Oh, no, that doesn't work like that.
Well, how does it work when 70 million people are looking like a bunch of privileged Tories going, well, why you're all deciding for me and I can't afford my bills?
It's not a great look.
And I actually think that this, this cost of living crisis and this taking the electorate for granted is going to cast the Tories into the wilderness for years.
And my fear is that horrible woman up north is going to start, isn't she?
What's her name?
Nicola Sturgeon.
She'll be in power in a minute.
What's going to happen then?
If you were a Scot, wouldn't you want to be breaking away from this lot?
I'm quite happy if they want to break away, but don't start me on her because she annoys me.
Don't start me on her.
She's ignore her, apparently.
Well, do you not think so?
What's she got to do with anything?
She doesn't want to be part of this country and spends her entire time criticising it, telling everybody.
She's trying to break away.
Well, let her go then.
I don't want to.
She's being denied the opportunity by Conservative prime ministers.
Do you think she's important?
I loved what Liz Truss said, Justice.
She's of absolutely no importance or interest to me.
That's pure Boris speak, isn't it?
She's so nice, someone.
She is a democratically elected First Minister of Scotland.
Yeah, she's a democratically elected leader of Scotland who asked for a referendum, got it, and the Scottish people said no.
Shut up and deal with it because that's the fact, not you, her.
That was almost 10 years ago, Jeremy.
Why do you want another one?
Do you understand how many broken promises are you?
Yeah, but you're one of those people that would have had 47%.
10 years, how should this generation?
What they were told, what the Scots were promised by the Conservative government, they were told they would stay in the EU, for example.
They were told there'll be this northern powerhouse rail and you know, everything was all scrapped.
Their welfare was, some welfare system was scrapped, not scrapped, but lowered.
They have had broken promise after broken promise.
Are you a Nicola Sturgeon fan?
I'm not a Nicola.
Look, I don't dislike her.
I'm not in the game, really.
But all I think is the Scots should be allowed another referendum because so much has changed.
What do you think?
I actually think that this is one point where I am absolutely behind Liz Truss.
I don't think the Scottish should be allowed another union.
It's a prison.
No, because they voted in 2014 to be a part of the United Kingdom.
And that means that they are subject to the democratic decisions of the United States.
They promised that they would stay within the European Union.
This is supposed to be a one-time.
One-a-generation vote.
We cannot have a situation constitutionally where we have parts of the U.S.
It wouldn't be accepted in the US.
It wouldn't be accepted in places like Canada, for example, where Quebec wanted independence at one point, or Catalan in Spain.
It wouldn't be accepted that parts of a country would keep getting to vote on their membership of that country over and over again.
It's not a result of the...
Again, we're talking about Liz Truss, who is like missed sovereignty, hell-bent on sovereignty, was so pro exiting the European Union, denying the Scots the opportunity to leave the Union.
Liz Truss was a remaining.
You know, actually flip-flopped.
And you said actually the Remainer.
Yes, exactly.
She flip-flopped.
But now, because she's a career politician, she'll go wherever she needs to go.
In fact, I find it interesting that you say she's probably the person that's got, you know, decision.
Can we, lovely, Mr. Jonas?
Can we agree on one thing?
Whoever gets into number 10, as I said, it's going to be an incredibly difficult drubber, a fragmented country, a government whose record has been tainted by a lot of the things that went on.
Most importantly, as I started this show tonight, a cost of living crisis that is cutting deep to all levels of people.
And I personally am, you know, people that are pro this and pro that.
I think right now, you know, at this moment in time with still four weeks to go, one of these people, Liz Truss, Rushi Sunat, needs to understand that the people of this country are on their knees.
They do not understand what's coming next and they need some, I don't know, there's some advice.
They need somebody to come out and speak about it and tell them it'll be okay.
Because right now, many, many, many people do not think it's okay.
And it's all well and good to play politics.
We're talking about real life.
Right, if you two are happy to stay, let's cross now to talk to you.
These Tom Newton Dunn.
Oh, just being told, couple of secs.
Okay, he's with Foreign Secretary and Tory leadership frontrunner, Tom and brilliant.
No, it's not.
It's Richie Sunak.
Take a listen.
That's what I did as Chancellor, and that's what I'll do as Prime Minister.
That is it.
Rishi Sunak, thank you very much.
Thanks very much for talking to me.
Thank you, George.
Good to see you.
So that's Rishi Sunak.
Tom sat there.
Timing is the essence of great comedy.
Liz Truss, who is the leader.
I have to say to you very quickly before Liz comes out.
Still, the polls show she's 60-40 in front of Suna.
I know you don't want any of them, but do you see Liz Truss winning?
I want her to win.
I think out of the two, I would prefer her to win because I think she will be a gift to the opposition if they can get them back together.
A gift to the opposition.
There's a question for you, right?
Genuinely.
We're in the worst economic crisis this country's seen for years.
We've got a government that's just thrown out its Prime Minister for being a liar.
And you're talking about us going and looking at the Labour Party.
Here we go.
Liz Truss.
Tom Newton, done you live on Talk TV going.
Thank you.
Good to see you.
Thank you.
Take a seat.
Liz, welcome to stage.
Let's get straight to the big story of the day.
I think it's a big story of the entire contest: the cost of living and those energy bills.
Now, Rishi Sierg has just told me he's prepared to match the sort of generosity he showed in May with direct support, government money straight to people's bank accounts to help them pay bills to the tune of billions come the autumn.
Will you do the same thing?
Well, what I want to do is make sure, first of all, we're reducing taxes because that is needed to drive economic growth.
Currently, the country is predicted to go into a recession.
That will be a huge problem.
We know what recessions are like.
People lose their jobs, there are fewer opportunities, wages are lower, and we need to avoid that.
And at the moment, we have the highest taxes in 70 years.
So, what I would do is immediately reverse the national insurance rise.
I'd also have a temporary moratorium on the green energy levy to save people money on fuel bills.
I do that from day one.
But also, what I would do is keep corporation tax low because we cannot tax our way to growth.
And I believe in conservative economics.
I believe in a growing economy.
And a growing economy actually brings in more tax revenue in the future.
So that's a really fundamental principle for me.
Now, we are facing great difficulties with energy.
And I understand people are struggling with their bills on fuel and food.
But the first thing we should do as conservatives is help people have more of their own money.
What I don't support is taking people, taking money off people in tax and then giving it back to them in handouts.
That to me is Gordon Brown economics.
And, you know, frankly, we had years of that under Labour.
And what we got was a slow growth economy.
And we didn't get the opportunities.
We didn't get the enterprises.
We didn't get the new jobs in places like Darlington, which is one of the reasons people voted conservative.
They voted conservative because they want to see enterprise, they want to see new opportunities.
And that is why it's so important that we don't raise taxes, that we keep taxes low, and also we abolish these EU rules that are holding back investment into our country.
Get on to that.
Let me just clarify something.
Gordon Brown economics.
You're accusing Rishi Sunak of having Gordon Brown economics.
What I'm saying is that.
Well, I was actually responding to your question, Tom, which is what I'm here for, which is what I'm here for.
Low Taxes and Growth 00:11:21
Which is, you know, do you just think about there's a fixed pie, we have to share out the pie, and we have to give out money and handouts.
My view is we can grow the pie.
That there is a having lower taxes actually helps us generate more income into the economy, so there is more money to go round.
And what I fundamentally don't agree with is putting up taxes and then also giving out benefits.
I think that's the wrong approach.
Okay.
Now, here's the thing with tax cuts, and you know these numbers as well.
What you're proposing, that the NICS cut, well, stopping the rise again, saves people about £170 a year.
Stopping the green levies, £153 a year, that's a total of £323 a year.
Now, energy bills, according to today's predictions, are going up to £4,400 a year next April.
They're currently at £1,900.
That's where the price cap is.
So with your giveaways, without your handouts, as you just put it, you're leaving a lot of money.
But this is the problem with the way that every question is framed.
Well, excuse me for framing the question by a way, but can I just frame the question?
You're framing it.
You're framing it in a left-wing way, Tom.
I'm afraid the whole media does this all the time.
We're all left-wing stooges, and you're trying to count down the clock.
Let me put the question to you.
You're leaving with your tax cuts people some £2,000 out of pocket.
I ask you again: are you prepared to help them with government money, call them grants, call them support, call them handouts at any stage in your premiership for them to pay those energy bills?
Well, I think the important word in your sentence was today.
That is the prediction today.
This leadership election is about who is going to be the Prime Minister in September.
And what's important is the Prime Minister at the time and the Chancellor looks at the situation.
And of course, my first priority is reducing taxes.
I think it's important people keep more of their own money and it's important we grow the economy and we avoid recession.
My second priority is dealing with the supply issue.
And the number one thing we can do to end this energy crisis is to stand up to Vladimir Putin in Ukraine.
Because that is what is causing the global price spike.
And that is why it's so important we are investing in defence and we're doing all we can to stop Vladimir Putin.
And I also want to make sure we're exploiting all of the gas reserves and the capacity we have in the UK.
So we should be fracking.
This is important, Tom, because there are three.
Let me go on to the three things.
There could be three things.
Let me ask you.
No, no, no, no.
But it is important we increase the supply of energy.
And there are more resources to be used in the North Sea.
There is more we can do on nuclear and there's more we can do on fracking.
We should do all of those things.
But of course, in any budget, the Chancellor has to look at the situation people are facing across the country.
I think that's a good question.
And that decision is ruling out handouts.
Am I right?
I am not going to say in the middle of August what is going to be in a budget later this year.
But what I am saying philosophically is I always favour people keeping more of their own money first.
And what I think is completely wrong is the idea that we take huge sways of people's money, hard-working people, and then give it back to them and then claim it's a giveaway and it's our money.
That is completely wrong.
That's completely wrong, Tom.
And I don't believe in it.
Okay.
For record, you didn't rule out handouts.
I wonder if it was a handout when Rishi Zunak did it in May, that 15 billion.
But I think we've done enough on handouts, as you call them.
The CBI Address General, Tony Danker, I put this question to Rishi Sunak a minute back.
He wants you, Rishi Sunak, and Boris Johnson to get into a room, agree a policy right now to help people pay those bills.
Not on the 6th of September, when you get into office on the 21st of September, which is apparently when your emergency budget is going to be, right now.
Would you agree?
And do you want to get into that room with Rishi and Boris tomorrow?
Well, first of all, I am Foreign Secretary, and I'm focusing my energy on dealing with the very serious foreign policy issues we face: the issues in Taiwan, the issues with Russia and Ukraine.
And that is rightly my focus.
We have a Chancellor, Nadim Zahawi.
We have a Prime Minister who are in those jobs until September.
And I think it would be constitutionally deeply undesirable to try and overrule them with a sort of made-up committee of the CBI, me and Rishi Zunak.
I mean, I just find it an extraordinary, you know, Nadim Zahawi, not just because he's a supporter of my campaign, and he is, is a fantastic chap.
Boris Johnson, you know, he's done a great job as Prime Minister delivering Brexit, delivering on the COVID vaccine, standing up to Putin.
They are capable people capable of making these decisions.
This kangaroo committee you're proposing sounds bizarre.
Okay.
It was Tony Danker and Gordon Brown proposing it, not me.
For the record, sorry.
We're going to go on to Gordon Gabran again.
Let me ask you about something quite serious.
Again, something I put to Mr. Sunak, I'm really interested in your views on.
State spending is not immune to inflation.
Inflation could pass 13% quite soon.
That means government budgets are going to need a lot more money spent on them.
Are you prepared to keep the NH budget where it is now in real terms?
In other words, spend quite a bit more money keeping spending in real terms where it is now.
Well, just to be clear, I am committed to the additional spending on the NHS, the 13 billion.
I want more of it to go into social care.
I want more of it to go directly to councils, which is answering the question because that is the NHS budget.
And I do think the NHS budget will have to continue to go up in real terms.
But I'm not going to pre-judge the spending review, which I want to be committed alongside the budget.
All right.
Let me ask you something that's been rumoured.
Is it true your team are in open access talks already with the Cabinet Office about what your premiership looks like?
No, that's not true.
Okay, thank you for clearing that one up.
I want to ask you about your character and judgment.
Okay, Liz Trust there with Tom Newton done.
Let's get back to Jessica's Journalist.
Emma Webb, Maria Pikas.
Can I just throw this out to both of you?
Liz Trust, we've got the highest taxes in 70 years.
I'm going to cut the green levy, keep corporation tax low because you can't tax to grow.
I'm going to frack.
I'm going to increase nuclear power.
I'm going to spend more on social care, support the NHS.
My question very simply to you is, where was all of that when she was in Boris Johnson's cabinet, or am I missing the point?
No, you're not missing the point.
She voted for all of those tax increases, by the way.
She voted 15 times for them in the last two years, Jeremy.
So that's the thing with Rishi as well.
He was in power.
He is the person that put these policies in place.
But even so, if we just distill what she's talking about here, it's nonsense.
It's almost like feeding, what is it, Peter to what's it robbing Peter to pay Paul, but it doesn't work.
What I hate is how she's trying to use the term handouts in a derogatory way to make people feel ashamed or it's a bad thing.
What's good about handouts, if you want to call it that, is that they are targeted.
Tax cuts.
All tax cuts do, by the way, is put more money in the pockets of the more wealthy people.
And then you've got that, which isn't going to impact inflation when the Bank of England is then working opposite that to try and increase interest rates to try and curb inflation.
It doesn't work.
Emma, it seems to me to be a bounty of promises.
Promises that were in the manifesto, which were blatantly ignored whilst Johnson was in power.
But then we're going to talk about the pandemic, we're going to talk about the problems of Brexit.
I'm sort of with Marina in that there's a I'm not sure how sort of genuine I feel that all of these promises are.
I just, you know, she said I'm foreign secretary.
Yeah, you are, but you're at a hustings almost on a daily basis and having a debate on every television channel.
I don't see you doing anything on Tawan or anywhere else.
I think you're concentrating on getting to number 10.
She poo-pooed Tom's idea about an emergency budget right now.
What's your thought on that?
Because the CBI say we need to act now, not in six weeks.
I'm not sure what my thoughts are on an emergency budget.
I do think something needs to happen now, and I think that now is a very, very bad time for the Conservatives to be having a leadership election.
But I think fundamentally, going back to what you were saying, is that part of the problem here is that even though Liz Truss is my favoured candidate, she's very scripted in the way that she delivers her answers, and that doesn't strike a chord of authenticity.
And going back to Kemi Badenock, who was my preferred candidate, when Kemi Badenock speaks, yes, but I think that she's a good example of what a politician should be.
But Marina's right, she's not in the game.
We have got two people, tainted, if you like, by Johnson Association, who are making promises that were made in the manifesto three years ago.
And, you know, we don't share the same politics, but I'm talking about people watching this tonight are going to go, but you said all that before.
You talked about social care.
You talked about...
Why would I think it?
And the thing that enrages me, I think Liz Truss will win.
I think that she will not give Sunak a job.
I think that the Tory party will be in open warfare.
But I'll make the point again to you that I was cut off, as I said, to Liz Truss.
Your party, with the greatest respect, with open warfare and the Tories losing seats left, right, and centre, thrown out their Prime Minister.
They're not getting any traction.
Nobody in this country trusts the Labour Party specifically because they still believe that the Labour Party isn't fit to govern.
That is true, isn't it?
Why are you not right ahead in the polls?
You should be.
Fuzzy, not my party.
Well, you know what?
I will just say, I will vote for whoever I need to to de-seat the Tory in my constituency and I implore other people to do the same.
You can answer the question, though.
Why isn't Starma streets ahead?
Come on.
I actually think Starmer has missed so many open goals, and I am really getting disappointed with the best.
He's about as exciting as that glass of water.
It doesn't resonate, does it?
It's care for someone to be exciting.
I'm quite happy with Gordon Brown.
He could step back into the rock.
But you weren't when he was in power.
He wasn't very good, was he?
I think I was a bit too young to even remember what was going.
That's implying I'm old.
I remember everything, me.
They should be ahead, but I also think you need to bear in mind, and maybe this isn't the place to talk about it, but the media skewer the left.
If there is anything going on, like Kier Starmer, 12 front pages in the Daily Mail for a non-illegal curry and a beer, and yet you've got Boris Johnson.
Don't start me on that, because we'll disagree.
A beer and a curry in a house with 30 people and a piece of cake on the way to a meeting in your office with 12 people.
I'm going to decide that that's wrong.
No, I'll tell you what I think is wrong.
It's getting rid of a prime minister for a piece of cake.
But Boris Johnson got he got rid because he was rid of because of Pincher.
Well, even more ridiculous.
Kemi Badenock, out of the game.
Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak.
You both say Liz Truss.
Wowsers.
You both say Liz Truss, yes?
I will be voting for Liz Truss.
If you had to vote, come on.
Truss.
Awful.
All right, two years down the line, a hung parliament, Starma still doesn't get through to the British electorate.
Bit of a hung part.
And that woman from Scotland could hold the balance of power.
A woman who doesn't want to be associated with this country.
Trump Legal Retribution 00:09:43
It's a nightmare, isn't it?
It is.
And you know, it's a nightmare, and it's the making of what?
Who made this?
12 years of Tory government.
Can I just ask people, if you're not happy with things, right, try something new.
But there isn't an alternative, is there?
Really?
Well, where is the alternative?
Well, what's the alternative?
What do you think would happen to the country if Keir Starmer's Labour did get into power?
What do you think would happen?
I think we'd probably rejoin the EU in time, but let's agree to disagree.
Emma Webb, Marina Perkis, I love you both.
Thank you for being on.
That's Jesus Jonas, and next and uncensored.
Here's an exclusive.
Could the FBI's raid at former President Donald Trump Trumpel, Trump's Florida resort, oh goodness, help him in 2024?
I'll be asking his former man, senior advisor to President Trump, Jason Miller.
He's here after that.
President Trumpel, we're coming right back.
Don't go anywhere.
There you are, my friends.
Welcome back.
Now, before the break, you were witnessing my greatest TV humiliation.
I described him as Donald Trump, President Trumpel, and not too figure from a children's television program one day in the future.
Right.
In the future, this is true.
The heads of the Justice Department and the FBI will no doubt be brought to Capitol Hill to testify about the historic decision to raid a former president's home.
You see, late last night, Trump's private residence was raided.
Now, we don't yet know too much about what was in that search warrant, but we do know that the raid concerned the removal of classified documents from the White House that Trump allegedly took with him when he left office last year.
This is what Trump said in a statement.
I love this.
These are dark times for our nation as my beautiful home in Palm Beach, Florida, is currently under siege, raided and occupied by a large group of FBI agents.
Nothing like this has ever happened to a president of the United States before.
Such an assault could only take place in broken third world countries.
Sadly, America has now become one of those countries corrupt at a level not seen before.
They even broke into my safe.
So what was in that safe?
I'm joined now by President Trump's former senior advisor, Jason Miller.
How are you, Jason?
Jeremy, good to be with you.
I'm sorry about my inability to say his name.
Let's cut to the chase.
How long did you work with Donald Trump?
So I worked for the president both the 2016 campaign and the 2020 campaign in them for about five or six months after he left office.
Quite possibly the most divisive, like Johnson, but on a far greater scale, loved and loathed in equal measure.
I remind people in this country that 74 million people voted for him in the last election.
Now, currently under investigation over that Capitol Hill riot, last week we saw a situation where Nancy Pelosi went to Taiwan, apparently nothing to do with Biden.
Last night, the FBI raid an ex-president's residence.
Biden's hand in this or not?
I don't think Biden directly, this is not going to help Biden.
If anything, it's going to backfire.
But I do think that it's the political appointees that Joe Biden has put at the DOJ and other places that had a hand in this.
I mean, the fact that this happened, we've never had something like this in American history.
This is what happens in Venezuela or Cuba or with the CCP in China.
We're now a laughingstock of the world at what we're doing for political retribution.
You talk about political retribution, presumably from this side of the pond.
I would look at it and go, they're doing everything they can to prove that he broke the law, which means he won't be able to stand for public office.
Would that be fair?
That's absolutely true.
That's what we're seeing with the January 6th hearings.
That's what we're seeing with this effort with the FBI agents doing their raid last night.
It's what we see with the Democrats on Capitol Hill going after his tax returns.
They're going to do everything they can to stop him for 2024.
What a lot of folks might not realize, he's leading in the primary, President Trump is, and also a lot of polls show him leading Joe Biden.
So Joe Biden's in a pretty bad place right now, and Donald Trump is setting up for a victory.
That's why I think the deep state, that's why I think the bureaucracy, they're coming after him with everything they have.
It's interesting though, isn't it?
You said to me during the break that I said, is he going to stand?
I think he'll stand.
What do you think?
Do you think he'll stand?
you said after last night the Republicans are absolutely raging.
Absolutely.
I think the before last night, I'd say it was maybe in the 60-40, maybe 70-30 range.
I think after last night, I think it's almost certain that President Trump runs again.
And I think the reason being is he realizes that once you start attacking the swamp, once you start trying to change things, they're never going to stop shooting at you.
Isn't it true to say that any candidate that would try and take that nomination from him would need his acceptance, his support?
He has this amazing control over the Republican Party.
But what would you say to the critics who say he left office in disgrace?
I mean, I read something today, apparently he flushed evidence down the toilet.
You don't say toilet.
I don't know what you say.
Lou, whatever.
Bathroom.
Apparently, there is indeed the very toilet that President Trump allegedly flushed evidence down.
Just man-to-man, you and me.
Is he as devious?
Is he as duplicitous as everybody makes out?
What's the real man?
You know the real man.
I do.
I think he's one of the things that he's the exact same off-camera as he is on.
And I'll tell you, that's different from any other politician I've ever worked with.
And I've done that for much of the last 20, almost 30 years.
You always know where you stand with Trump.
There's no guessing game.
He'll tell you to face.
There have been plenty of times he said, Jason, this is a great idea.
There's plenty of times where he said, this is a terrible idea.
There's never a guessing game.
But the thing about him going and running, I think a lot of people forget this point.
Not only does he have a firm grip of the Republican base right now, keep in mind, in 2020, he actually set the modern record for votes with Hispanic Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans for Republicans, best ever since 1972.
I don't think that there's another Republican that can win in blue states, Democrat states, the same way that Trump can.
Does he demand total loyalty?
There was something in a newspaper I read the week.
You know, the New York Times, I think, said, you know, he demands his generals support him.
It was just this extraordinary rhetoric.
I mean, again, from this side of the pond, you know, he sacked almost everybody all the time and yet leaves office, okay, left office, didn't win, made a big thing about that.
Did he?
I mean, there's so much that's, it sounds a terrible thing to say, fascinating about this man.
But if you look at what happened, we're sat here and we're saying if there was an election in the United States of America tomorrow, he would be the next president of the United States.
What does that say about the American people?
What it says is the American people, at the time in 2020, they were told that if you just stop tweeting mean things, if we just restore sensibility in a really nice guy like Uncle Joe, everything is going to go back to normalcy in the world.
We're not going to have invasions.
We're not going to have a crisis at our southern border.
There'll be no inflation.
Well, guess what?
The exact opposite has happened.
I want to go back to a point that you said a moment ago about the absolute loyalty, because I think if you're trying to understand what Trump is about, if you're in the room with him, you're expected to have an opinion.
He'll go around, doesn't it matter?
You're the most senior person, the most junior person.
He'll look you in your eye, say, what's your opinion on this position?
He's fine if someone stands up and says, no, I think you're wrong.
If you have a good idea or a solution to go forward, it's easy for someone who works for a politician to say no.
But if you have nothing to back it up, then he'll tell you to get lost.
He's box office, isn't he?
I mean, he's one of those people that, as I said at the beginning of our chat, Jason, demands 100% loyalty.
You love him or you loathe him.
So let's say he stands.
You think he will?
I think so.
And if he wins, will the call come to Jason Miller?
Will you go back and work with him again?
Well, the call will come before he actually wins.
It will be to help him.
I've already told him that if he runs, I'll be there to help him.
Absolutely.
I'm always his number one biggest wingman, and I'm ready to go into battle again.
Do you think that the American people can forgive January the 6th?
Do you think enough of them can put that behind them?
Because we haven't got long.
You're right.
Again, from this side of the pond, Joe Biden's been a huge disappointment.
Kamala Harris has disappeared out of view.
So that's a really smart question because there's always the matchup.
Are you going to go with the Joe Biden who tanked the economy, allowed Putin to roll in the Ukraine, China just a matter of minutes, I'm guessing, until they took over Taiwan.
Maybe it's by the end of this show.
You stack that up against what Trump was able to do.
And people say, you know what?
We can go and we're going to pick how does it impact me and my family.
That's what it all comes down to, the pocketbook.
Look, the wealth disparity is still getting bigger and bigger.
People, the inflation, not just hurting folks here in the UK, really crushing people in the US.
They're going to say, hey, I'm not going to say that what happened on January 6th should be swept under the rug.
It was a terrible day for America.
But the bad actors, the people who went planned and plotted this thing, they weren't part of a Trump movement, a Trump agenda.
He has no time for the lawlessness and the craziness.
If you broke a law, if you assaulted someone, very, very quickly, could he have been more vocal in criticizing and trying to stop it?
That's the question, surely.
Sure.
But do I think it fundamentally would have changed the outcome on that day?
No.
Could he have spoken out earlier?
I do think so.
So if he wins in 2024 and you get a job, you'll come back on the show, will you?
I'll always come back.
A real pleasure.
Seriously.
I'd love to have had more time.
Jason Miller, that raid last night on Donald Trump's home, Jason says, and this is really interesting, will galvanize, galvanize the Republicans behind Trump.
He said to us just then, you know, before last night, maybe 60, 40, Jason is convinced that Donald Trump will stand again in 2024.
And judging, judging by what we see in the polls, not only would he stand, he'll win.
Maybe Johnson will come make a comeback.
Listen, thank you so much indeed for watching tonight.
We've got there eventually.
Thank you to Tom, Newton, Dunn and Liz Trust.
That's it from me.
Just remember, wherever you are, keep it uncensored.
Have a great night.
We'll see you tomorrow day.
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