Cory Sandhagen is the #2 ranked UFC 135lb-er and in many people's eyes a future champ. Theo and Cory talk about evolving your tools for survival, what it felt like to knock out a legend, and what Cory would be doing if he wasn't fighting.
https://bit.ly/theo-von
Follow Cory: https://instagram.com/EnterTheSandman135
This episode is brought to you by: Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/theo Fabletics: https://fabletics.com/theo Manscaped: 20% off + free shipping at https://manscaped.com/theo The Zebra: https://TheZebra.com/theo Liquid Death: https://liquiddeath.com
Music: “Shine” - Bishop Gunn http://bit.ly/Shine_BishopGunn Hit the Hotline 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: http://bit.ly/TPW_VideoHotline
Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovonFacebook: https://facebook.com/theovonFacebook Group: https://facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiEKV_MOhwZ7OEcgFyLKilw
Producer: Nick Davis https://instagram.com/realnickdavis
Producer: Sean Dugan https://www.instagram.com/SeanDugan/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
He is a traveler and an adventurer in the physical realms and in the mental realms as well.
You know, this is a man that is trying to divide himself and conquer the different parts that make us up as humans.
He is the number two-ranked bantamweight fighter in the world.
We are honored to have Mr. Corey Sandhagen.
Shine that light on me I'll sit and tell you my stories Shine on me And I will find a song I'll be singing just so I'll be singing just so
I'll be singing just so I'll be singing just so Taste it here, bro.
Yeah.
It's a good water.
It's a good water.
Look at this fucking mountains, bro.
From the mountains, like you, bro.
Great question.
Great question.
Fucking Death Mountain, bro.
Yeah, that's a good question.
Yeah, that's true.
This shit could be from a questionable mountain, man.
I didn't think about that, man.
They don't really tell you what mountain.
This shit could be from West Virginia.
This shit could have a literacy in it.
Is that where you're from?
Virginia?
I'm from Louisiana.
Louisiana.
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, man.
from down in Louisiana, man.
Got the kid in here today, right there.
There you go.
Oh, shit.
Sugar Song gave me those.
Oh, nice.
You had him on, too?
He came on a while back before he hurt himself.
Yeah, nice.
Before he got hurt.
Hurtened up, man.
He's a cool dude.
I met him a couple times.
Yeah, he's a super nice dude.
He's a...
You know?
He sprouted that kid out of nowhere, I think.
He's got like a gym in his garage and everything.
his house does look cool when you're kind of watching him.
It seems like he's on like a...
Or he just has like a really cool domicile.
It's like a fantasy factory.
Yeah, it seems like he's got some real space to him.
Corey Sanhagen, man, dude, thanks for being here.
Yeah, man, absolutely.
Thank you, man.
It's crazy, dude.
It's crazy to be around.
Because I feel like when I was a kid, I would be so afraid to be around somebody that could fight, you know?
Like, unless they were my friend.
Like, otherwise, it was like fighter dudes, you always like, like, if you were in the hall at school and somebody could fight, you always had to kind of keep a beam out of the side of your eye.
Yeah.
When you were in high school, was there like a fight?
Was there like a kid you remember growing up with like, oh, that dude can fight?
Not really, man.
Like, I would say that, so I grew up in Aurora, Colorado, which is like, you know, not like a rough area because it's Colorado or whatever.
But like, as far as Colorado goes, it's maybe like one of the more, you know, like rougher areas or whatever.
But dude, I had this friend, Thomas Johnson, who he was about my size.
I was really little growing up, too.
Like, I was supposed to be five foot two, the doctor told me my whole life.
And you beat it?
I beat it, man.
Fuck it, dog.
Thank you.
That's awesome.
Nick was premature baby, man.
Nick's doing great.
Damn, nice, Nick.
So we got a lot of comeback kids up in here.
What's up?
No, bro, but this dude, Thomas Johnson, I never seen him throw a punch once in his life.
Because anytime he would get an altercation with someone, the move he would do, because he was little also, is he would start looking around, bro.
Like he would start looking around, and it would freak people out because he'd be like, because he'd think that, you know, the other person thought that he was going to smoke him, like, because no teachers were watching or anything.
Oh, so it was a bit of a kind of pomp and circumstance kind of.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When you're a little, man, you got to have like little tactics.
Like, I would look on the ground for stuff.
If I felt someone was going to, you know, go off on me, I'd start to like look at a stick or look at a cone or something, you know?
So what you can do is strategize a little bit or something or just have some like, maybe, oh, he's not looking at me right now.
Like, he must be thinking something, like, just something.
Or like, or, yeah, just confuse him, bro.
It's the art of war, you know.
Anytime you can create some chaos in the other person's mind, you do it.
Damn.
Do you use, like, is that something that you still kind of go on today?
Like, because some guys do a lot of like peacock, you know, Sean's kind of a peacock kind of guy.
Sugar Sean and Connor actually is one of the more famous ones.
Do you, that doesn't really seem to be your vibe as much.
Do you feel like there's stuff like that when you get right into the octagon that you're doing?
Or is there subtle things that maybe that we wouldn't notice unless you told us?
I think that people carry around energy, obviously.
And like pretty much the entire time I'm in fight week or definitely when we're facing off or anything, in my head, I'm thinking, I'm going to kill you.
Next time we see each other, I'm going to try to kill you.
So I try to carry that energy with me all the time because, you know, I think that while it's subtle, I think, you know, people pick up on that for sure.
Oh, I can feel it right now, dude.
Even though you're just kind of like, you know, putting it in the air just to kind of show it, it's kind of crazy because I really can feel like, not that you're trying to kill me, but just that you're putting that thing out there like this, like this force field almost.
You know, this thing, like, I'm going to let this sit in the air because it's an ambiance that I built inside of me and it has fucking arms that can reach out into the air.
That's crazy, bro.
Yep, yep.
It does.
I think one of the, you know, most interesting things that one of my buddies said to me one time is he goes, he goes, man, like you're a really nice, like, quiet guy, you know, soft-spoken.
But like, it wouldn't surprise me if you were out there like being a serial killer or something.
I was like, thank you, bro.
Thank you, man.
That's what I'm trying to put out there, you know?
Dang, man.
Did anybody, when you were growing up, was there anybody that had that, like, a vibe that you didn't ever know how they were feeling?
Like, they...
Like she was always just working real hard, but I never knew when she got home if she was going to be like in a good mood.
I just never knew really what was going on with her.
Did you have like, was there anybody in your life like that growing up where you just kind of and there doesn't have to be.
I'm just kind of I don't think so.
I don't even really think that you know you can definitely pick up on energy when you're about to fight someone, you know, like where they are in their in their headspace.
I think that your body goes through some type of like survival mechanism also where like it's it's reading the other person a little bit closer.
Then I think that, you know, like right now when we're just having a conversation, I think when you're about to fight, you're able to read body language a little bit easier.
And I think that they're able to read theirs a little bit easier.
So as, you know, I think that that's a big part of the sport though is like, yeah, that like body language reading, you know, that energy type of reading.
But no, growing up, I definitely didn't have that skill.
So I don't really grow up, yeah.
So it wasn't something, so did you think of yourself as like a tough kid growing up?
I knew that I was tough.
Like I was a very like physical kid.
Like I was really aggressive.
But like I said, man, like I had to be humble because I was so little.
I think that the people in the smaller weight classes have to be humble because look, man, I'm a 135er and like I noticed that there's a different way that 35ers act and like the littler weight classes act versus like the 170 and up because like us, even though we can be more skilled than a lot of the other people or the heavier weight classes, like those people, you know, like the law of nature is the bigger animal usually beats the smaller animal.
So like I think just growing up smaller, you have to be a little bit more humble in those ways.
Right.
Yeah, I could see that.
Yeah, it's just kind of like, yeah, even the wrestlers in school had a different energy than the foot, had to have a different energy than the football team.
Like the football team kind of got a lot of the looks and the accolades and like they got to really be boastful and wear the Letterman jackets.
But the wrestlers had to have almost this more like quiet vibe.
Yeah, literally a hungry vibe.
Literally.
And be more of like a quiet commander of themselves, kind of, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you play anything?
You're a big dude, man.
I didn't expect you to be that big.
Really?
I'm just pretty much regular size.
You look dense, bro.
Yeah, I'm fucking dense.
I'm built like a gingerbread man.
When you pull up a gingerbread cookie there, I'm definitely built like a gingerbread cookie.
That hair looks way better in real person, too.
Oh, thanks, bro.
Yeah, man.
I was going to try to grow one out, but you messaged me too late, bro.
You got to give me a couple months next time.
Have a rat tail next time?
Dude, I could see you maybe with a rat tail.
That's how I'm built.
See, I got that body physique like a gingerbread man without the sugar art on it.
But yeah, I'm really just close-knit, bro.
Not a ton of dexterity.
I'm built like a Conestoga wagon right there, bro.
That's exactly how I'm built.
Narrow body, dude.
Not like, you know, yeah, like I can go over some bumps, dude, but I'll easily go off a cliff, you know, if I get a little too close to the edge.
What would you play, bro?
I play basketball.
Oh, nice.
I played basketball growing up, too.
Oh, you did?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
I read that somewhere.
Yep, yep, yep.
So I got to ask this, man.
We'll show this picture that we show a lot of me playing some hoops right here.
There we go, right there.
That's me on the squad right there, bottom left.
And a lot of these men, dude, had children, had a lot of these men had jobs.
Like a college dude?
A D3?
No, dog, this is fucking...
You were big back then, too.
Dude, I was a fucking long guy, bro.
I was doing a good, carried a lot of weight in my ears back then, dude.
Ears and nose.
Bro, that's what my, yeah, my ears only got bigger after the cauliflower ear.
That's crazy.
So how long does it take to start that cauliflower ear?
How long does it take to really sprout?
It's like a, you know, it's like, because it's the skin and then like your cartilage.
The skin gets away from the cartilage by getting like banged up or whatever.
Fills up with blood.
And then, you know, depending on how well you take care of it, it depends on like how much you have.
So like some guys you see have like nice cauliflower ear.
This one, bro, was like the size of a ping pong ball in there.
And I would just drain it and drain it and drain it because I didn't want to stop training.
And I definitely didn't want to wear headgear.
So I would just keep draining it and draining it.
And then one day I wasn't able to drain it anymore because the King Supers I used to go to to get the syringes because you do it with the syringe.
Oh, daddy quit giving me syringes.
They were like, no, kid.
Yeah.
They're like, no, kid.
Like, you've been here every day for the last two months.
You don't get any more needles, you know?
Like, this kid's putting heroin into his ears.
Or maybe they were doing it for the drug addicts, actually, now that I think about it.
Maybe like, hey, man, we're running out of needles, man.
Some people need those.
Yeah, it could have been, man.
Maybe, yeah, maybe people, the wire might have been put back on HBO.
I remember using steroids, and we'd have to go to like a place and convince them to give us the needles when I was in high school.
And that shit was always awkward.
The lies we would make up.
It's for a dog, as we would always say, dude.
One kid said it was for this is the worst, dude.
My friend was such an idiot.
He said it was for his voodoo doll.
Like, well, fucking just get some regular needles.
You don't need fucking hypodermic syringes.
Unless your voodoo doll is fucking really going through some tough shit, you know?
Dude, you're really becoming like a star in your sport.
Have you always felt, what are some of the things that happen with ego and stuff like that that start to happen that come with popularity?
Because that's a real thing.
And it's out of your control.
Some of it's out of your control, like that more eyes start to see you and more people are curious about you.
Like there's nothing you as a person can do about that.
You're just achieving your goals.
What's it been like kind of like noticing some of that And responding to it.
Yeah, I mean, I'll answer, and then I would actually like to hear your answer to the same thing, to be honest, because I don't feel like I'm near the caliber of something that you're at, but one day I would like to be too.
But I think, man, I got really fortunate in one, the coach that I'm with right now, who his name's Christian Allen, who taught me a lot about all of that way, way from the beginning, where I was kind of being, you know, prepped and primed in order to kind of like, not deal with success, but just to deal with the everyday egos of life and stuff.
So, man, I lost my first fight maybe like five years ago now.
And when I lost that fight, I had to do a lot of soul searching because I had put a lot of my identity in being a fighter and being this like, you know, prospect and, you know, up and like I was supposed to win.
Every single fight I went into, I was supposed to win because I was supposed to be the guy.
And I had always come from a really good gym.
Like, I came from Grudge, where like some really, really top-level guys came from.
Brendan used to train there, all of those guys.
So when I lost my first fight, I had to really do some searching, you know.
I spent about six months, probably, you know, Thursday to Sunday every day in the mountains, either camping or hiking or both.
And that's kind of where I learned to like meditate, learn to silent my mind and just kind of, you know, like listen to that little ego that's inside your head because it'll chirp off, you know, like it still chirps off no matter how much I feel like I do still, you know, of course.
So man, like I know that it's in there, right?
Like I know that, you know, it's in there.
Like it wants power.
It wants to conquer.
It wants things, you know, like every need is an ego to feed.
There's, you know, a Bob Marley from a Bob Marley song.
But it's still in there, man.
But I think it's just more about like how do you respond to it best in a way where it doesn't impact relationships with yourself and with other people.
Because, I mean, at the end of the day, man, like we're humans.
We're social animals.
Like, I think that that's more or less why we're on the planet is to interact and to love each other and all of that jazz.
And I think that if you let your ego get in the way of those types of things, that's where the ego really is taking over your life.
You know, so I just try to keep it right underneath that.
But right at the level where it's like, nah, but when I go in the cage, I'm still trying to win and get all the things I want because I want a lot of things in my life.
Right.
So still able to just kind of almost corral it, like at least have some control over it.
Sure.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I think meditation is probably really, really key to that kind of stuff.
Do you do it?
I don't do it as much as I should.
And I can feel when I'm not doing that.
I can feel like the uneasiness inside of me, the uncertainty.
Yes.
And I can feel it start to push from the inside of me out towards onto my, like the inside of my skin.
Yep.
So it's funny when I know I have more control over that.
Like things roll off my shoulders easier.
I don't give into like a lot of the traps of my brain and of society.
And I'm a little bit more in control of myself.
And then I feel like I can also do my best work then just as a human.
Not even as like a comedian or podcaster, but just as a human, as a brother, as a son, as a friend, as a co-worker, all that kind of stuff.
How do you make the clutter go away then?
I think a lot of times I'll use yoga right now.
And then I just started getting into doing jujitsu.
I'm white belt.
Hell yeah.
So they give it to you when you get there.
But I am certified white belt.
So, yeah.
So that's been cool, man.
I never realized how much anger I had.
And this goes back to what you were asking me about.
My answer to that question was, man, when I, like about two years ago, I kind of got into a space where I was just getting more popular.
And I think something, I had a lot of anger.
I got a lot of anger because I think I always thought inside of myself when I got to a certain level of achievement, whatever we view achievement as or success, whatever, and it doesn't have to be monetary success, but it could just be a platform or finally having your voice heard or finally achieving your physical potential.
When I got to a certain level of success that I was going to feel a level of accomplishment that matched it or that, I don't know, that the world was going to be different.
Suddenly the problems, the uncertainties, the low self-worth, all that shit would be completely gone.
And I think when I started to arrive at some of those places, it wasn't.
And I realized you're still just stuck with just life.
It still pisses you off when someone cuts you off.
Yeah.
Everything's still.
It's never going to go away.
You're still...
There's never that thank you for your effort.
I think there was something inside of me, I think, it got so angry because there wasn't like a, you know, you don't get the golden orb or whatever, that quiddage ball.
You don't get, you know, there's no big thank you for your effort.
And that made you angry?
It made me angry.
And I didn't know it was going to.
It was just inside of me.
And so I think I got so angry and I was having trouble finding a place to put it.
And then since I started going to the jiu-jitsu gym, man, I get it literally has to come out of me because I'm fucking caged up by some 50 or 60 year old man.
Yeah.
And I can't fucking do anything, you know?
Or they put me against some fucking, you know, spastic Adderalled out 6'5 guy.
The white belts are the most dangerous guys, bro.
They're the most dangerous dudes.
I'm fighting a guy that drives a bread truck all night.
He hasn't even slept and he's in there.
The guy's fucking jacked up.
You've taken caffeine pills before, bro.
That's a real thing, man.
We got a couple guys like that, too, at the gym.
It's crazy, bro.
So, but just me wanting something and not having any control over it.
That's those moments where I'm just caged up.
I can't move somebody.
I can't.
And I'm trying with muscles in my nut, muscles I didn't even know were in my body.
I'm trying with, and having no, and there's no return from the world.
And it's like it kind of answered that question that I had where I wanted some return.
And then it's like jiu-jitsu shows you that there's just, there's no return, but it's kind of okay.
And you go back to a place where you each shake each other's hand and it's all good and you try and learn a different way next time.
Yeah, so jiu-jitsu is good for that, man.
Jiu-Jitsu is good because I think that, you know, like, so I don't know how closely you've followed all of my fighting and stuff, but in the last two fights, I've really like come to find, you know, I don't want to call it like anger, but that place where like I know that I have to go out and be a different person than like when I'm walking day to day.
Oh, your confidence has changed.
Even from the alga fight, your confidence seems different when you are in there, when you're entering.
As a viewer, it seems different.
Yeah, what do you attribute that to, kind of?
I upped the meditations.
I upped the visualizations.
I started feeding my brain different things.
Because like I said, man, I like to think that a lot of life is about relationships and loving each other and this and that.
I've done my fair share of reading on Eastern philosophy and eliminating the ego, eliminating desires and all of that jazz.
And I realize that that's really great to be able to conquer some peace inside of you and be able to do that.
I think after you do that, though, if you're going to be in the world that I'm in, you need to also conquer war, and you need to learn a lot about that.
And you need to know how to get there.
The point that I was bringing up, man, is that that's inside of everyone.
The same type of anger and let me get this out type of feeling, I think is inside of everyone.
I don't think everyone gets to experience it.
And I don't think that everyone gets to see it as a positive thing.
And because I always saw it as not a positive thing.
And when someone would walk out or after a fight, act like an arrogant idiot, I would judge that person.
And then I got to thinking after I lost, I was like, man, there is a level of peacocking happening.
There is a level of intimidation.
There is a level of manipulation.
There's a reason that warriors in the past used to torture each other.
It's not because they liked it.
It's because if I torture this person and I peacock because that was kind of their version of peacocking, that's going to scare the other side.
Right.
The other guys sitting around the ring who are fighting me next or who I might run around the next corner, they're going to see me differently.
Yep, they're going to see me differently.
It's true, man.
It's true, man.
And I think there's a lot.
That's like a separate art in itself is just like being able to get yourself to a state where it's like nothing else matters except for beating this person.
Nothing else matters.
And that's where I've been going in the last couple of times, you know.
And I attribute it to a lot of meditations, but I'm doing different kind of meditations.
I know everyone kind of throws that word around and I'm not a guru or anything, so I don't know the terminology or whatever.
But in my experience, there's a lot of different kinds.
So now I'll do some where it's like, instead of making myself really peaceful, now it's time to go on that other end of the spectrum and be able to, you know, if I can quiet my mind, great.
But now let's kind of like wake it up, you know, or not wake up the mind, but wake up the body to a point where it's like, when it's go time, like I can actually go.
And so a lot of it is that, man, and just figuring that out.
It's an interesting philosophy, really, to create that angst in you.
Because there's one thing about getting ready for something, getting hype.
There's one thing about getting hype for something.
Like you could play basketball in high school and stuff and get hype for it.
That's a different, let's go.
You're excited.
You got, you know, you've done some warm-ups.
There's a different thing about how do I make myself that a victory is a necessity.
You know, how do I get the part of me that when someone does something to me and I can't do something back to them, that vitro that arises, how do you create that in a moment?
Because the power of that is so much more tangible and real and vicious than the power of, okay, let's just get hype.
Let me fucking hi-fi my buddies.
You know, it's just, that's a different world.
So to have a meditation for war, that's kind of fascinating.
I never even thought about that.
It's all survival, man.
You know, it's all survival.
Survival, that's a great word.
I think that all of our lives, man, because I used to work at a trauma facility too for like for kids that had like histories of trauma and stuff.
And I went to school for psychology at CU Boulder.
So, you know, I'm no expert by any means.
You know, I was just an on-call.
I would just fill in or whatever, like for the people that were actually doing a lot of the work at this place called Mount St. Vincent's.
Wow.
It's a pretty powerful place.
It's a super powerful place, man.
I think that I would attribute a lot of what I've learned in life to that facility.
Wow.
I used to be there a lot more, man.
Like I said, it was an on-call position.
So it was like I pretty much would make my own hours.
So back before I was in the UFC, and even while I was in the UFC, actually, I just resigned maybe a couple months ago just because I still liked having it be a part of my life.
But yeah, I was working there for a while.
And you learn a lot about just like how the brain works, obviously.
But you learn that, man, we're all just doing things in order for us to be able to survive better.
You know, like the kids that I was working with, they developed a certain amount of behaviors because in their environments they needed them.
And you're preaching to the choir.
We talk about this all the time on this podcast.
I still suffer from survival skills that I needed from trauma as a kid that I still use today that affect me negatively now.
And that becomes the problem is when you have a certain survival set in this environment, but now you're living in this environment.
And it's like, man, I don't need those anymore.
But for me, man, Like, I need a different level of survival techniques in order for me to go out into the cage and to be able to perform at the highest level that I can.
And, like, I've learned what those survival techniques are, you know, and I'm still figuring it out, man.
Like, even in the last fight that I had against Frankie, like, I felt way more powerful, you know, when I was like, I felt way more powerful than even I did when I was going against Marlon, which was another really good fight of mine.
You have Marlon Moraeus?
Yeah.
People say his last name different.
People should meet before and decide how they're going to say his last name.
You know what I'm saying?
Let's fucking do that next time.
But no, man, great.
I mean, both of them were great fights.
But no, it's interesting to see.
So starting to recognize that there's other skills you can still master outside of, and not even master, but start to learn and navigate outside of just the ones that would seem like the most the most popular for fighters.
Yeah, that's everything to me, man.
Like everyone's good, bro.
Like everyone that I'm going to fight for the rest of my career is going to be good.
It's going to be good, bro.
I know, bro.
I had that moment.
I had that moment.
I forget when it was, dude.
I think it was like, dude, it must have been.
That sucked.
Like one or two years ago.
I was like, I'm not wrecking her.
I'm not wrecking anyone anymore, bro.
I remember I had the moment.
I was sitting there and I was thinking, I was like, man, I need to just get used to this shit, bro.
I had an internal battle, bro.
I was like, man, every single dude for the next probably 10 years is going to be at this level, you know?
That's crazy.
Yeah, it sucked to come to that conclusion, but, you know, I've settled into it.
It was, let's get that question up, Nick, about the hours, minutes, and months before.
And Chris Jallen's here.
That's your coach.
Yep, yep.
That's awesome, man.
Yeah.
That's cool of him to come out.
Yeah, yeah.
Me and him are best friends, too.
Oh, just a coach, yeah, yeah.
Dude, I would like to see you guys do a tag team versus freaking Sugar Sean and Tim Welch one day, dog.
For charity, that'd be fun.
Yeah, what kind of match?
Like a slap hop?
It would be whatever, bro.
Like, it could just be video games if you want.
What are those things you take to the pool?
Slip noodles.
It could be noodles.
Yeah, noodles.
There we go.
You know, recently I realized I was paying $300 for car insurance, and then I did some adjustment.
Now, I'm not even joking, I'm paying $53.
Now, is something wrong if I get in an accident?
Am I actually covered?
I have no idea.
I need to check more.
But the bottom line is that it has been reported that Americans overall are spending $21 billion on our auto insurance.
Overpaying that much.
Overpaying $21 billion.
That's insane.
Thankfully, thezebra.com is the nation's leading car insurance comparison site.
You can do a comparison and know what's going on.
Before, you couldn't do it.
You had to ask somebody and you had to ask somebody else and you had to drive back and forth across town.
You know, somebody's doing hate crimes.
You got to hope for the best.
But that's all changed.
Thezebra.com, the only place you can compare quotes side by side from over 100 providers and choose the best for you in 90 seconds or less.
Plus, they will never sell your information to the spammers.
TechCrunch calls the zebra kayak for auto insurance.
You can save up to $670 a year.
How much can you save?
Can you save on car and home?
Insurance, go today.
Start saving.
Thezebra.com slash Theo.
That's thezebra.com slash T-H-E-O.
Spelled T-H-E-Z-E-B-R-A dot com slash Theo.
Why not?
You know, these time of year, I honestly, I don't know sometimes what's going on with my body and with the weather.
And sometimes it's snowing or it's raining and your body's full of hair and your dick ain't right.
But everything can be changed now.
Thanks to Manscaped.
They are here to provide the best tools for your grooming experience, offering precision engineered tools for your family jewels.
That's right.
We've all tried to shave ourselves and not cut our bag or jimmy out a labby or whatever.
But now the lawnmower 3.0 trimmer is the best hygiene tool for the modern man.
Do what you need.
Get your body tight.
Manscaped's performance package is the best buy of 2021.
You can get 20% off and you can support this podcast.
We need support.
We need to stay in business.
You can get free shipping by going to manscaped.com slash T-H-E-O.
That's 20% off with free shipping by going to manscaped.com slash Theo.
Thanks, Manscaped, for making our winter wieners look good.
Here's a guy right here sending a question.
All right, here we go.
Theo Vaughn, I'm taking a shit for you, and this question is coming from the shitter.
Corey Sanhagen, what's going on, man?
Much love.
What's the mindset?
Quick question.
What's the mindset going into a fight, going into a UFC world-class fight against world-class fighters?
What's the steps that you take weeks before the fight, months before the fight, and hours or minutes right before you walk out to prepare your mind?
Whether that's meditation or I don't even reading type of like warrior books or I don't really know learning about conquistadors.
I think that's what Mike Tyson used to do.
So I'm very curious as to what your mental state is and how you try to keep a strong, positive, but motivated, very focused mental state going into a fight.
So Gang Gang, thank you so much.
Corey, what's going on?
Gang, bro, thanks for the question.
And you answered some of it with the meditation and some of the trying to perfect a different mindset outside of the fighting exact fist body, the body set and more of a mindset.
But yeah, going into like a, once you learn what the fight is, what's kind of the process from like, okay, this is who I'm fighting.
Now it's a week Before, and now it's the day of.
Yep.
So I usually do 10-week camps.
Okay.
And this is actually something that my training partner Carrington Banks helped me a lot with.
He's also in my corner, too.
He's my wrestling helper.
I don't call him a coach because he's still fighting himself, but it's like a peaking process, man.
Like as you get closer to the fight, it's a peaking process.
So 10 weeks out, I'm still doing meditations every day.
I'm still doing breathing exercises either before, because before sparring, I'll do a lot of breathing exercises to get to that level of body awareness and stuff.
Will you load up on, will you do that, like, will you load up and so you can hold your breath for a long time?
No, no.
It's similar to Wim Hoff type of breathing where it's like really big or a really big long inhale and then quick exhale.
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty similar to that.
Have you ever tried that?
Yeah, I have, man.
I held my breath one time for like three and a half minutes.
Yeah, it makes it like all tingling and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm a fish.
It's pretty much like that, though, because it wakes your body up, man.
It gets like oxygen all around or whatever.
So it's that.
Like I said, man, it's feeding your brain the right stuff.
That's funny that he brought up Mike Tyson because I watch a lot of Mike Tyson's interviews too.
And just because I like seeing how really high-level competitors think.
And he'll talk about like Napoleon, you know, like all of those generals and back in the day.
And that's what I was talking about too, is the feeding the mind.
Like feeding the mind war stuff is, you know, part of my survival now.
So I do a lot of that.
Did he have something else to do?
Okay, so that was kind of like in it.
So that's early in advance.
So then once you get like, you're going through camp, you're getting close to a few weeks out.
Does anything change or does camp just stay the same up until like the day of the fight?
I would say about three weeks out.
And I don't know that I really do it on purpose.
I think that when you stay like connected with like, you know, your, your, your you inside of you, you know, I think that things just happen naturally the way that you want it to.
So about three weeks out, man, I don't, for whatever reason, every single stressor in my life doesn't matter anymore.
Wow.
But up until then, like, I'll still, you know, because I'm hungry.
I'm training hard.
So I'll be like pissed off about like little shit.
Like I'll come home.
I have a roommate that lives downstairs and my girlfriend that lives with me.
And I'll get home sometimes, man, and they'll be in the kitchen like, you know, going flirting with each other, bro.
I'll walk in and get so mad because the energy is just like too high, you know?
Like that's, that's why I'm mad about like about like three weeks before I'm just like, I'm going on a walk.
I'm walking this.
It's like you just got home.
Like turn this energy down, you know?
It's too happy in here, bro.
It's too fucking happy in here.
I'll knock some shit over.
Just no room.
Put apocalypto on or something.
This shit is too high.
I do start watching a little bit more violent stuff as it gets closer too.
But yeah, man, about three weeks away, for whatever reason, things stop mattering to me.
And it's all just like, let's get this done.
You know, let's get this done.
But I think that that comes just from, you know, staying checked in, not letting myself get cluttered.
You know, the more I feel cluttered, the less I just feel connected to myself.
And so.
Yeah, man, it's that stuff.
You know, I can really, in a weird way, sometimes some of that reminds me of what you're saying, like with comedy when I'm on stage.
If I'm in a space where I'm not tied to a bunch of other shit that day before I get on a stage or something, and I'm really just feeling like part of the universe a little bit and like locked in and wanting to have a good show and make sure these people have fun.
It's not exactly the same, but it's just on the same wavelength of like I'm not attached to too many other things.
Man, then I'm almost, I'm almost just my skills are already there, are there.
You know, they definitely can always be better, but I'm just working off this energy that's in the world and it's just a fucking, it's like I'm just juggling this dope shit that fucking God put out there.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like, you know, like you're just where you're supposed to be.
Yeah.
Dude, I saw you in Denver not too long ago, man.
I have to say, just because I'm a fanboy too, bro.
It was probably like last year, bro.
Yeah.
Because I hadn't seen your stand-up until probably your Comedy Centrals.
Did you have anything on Netflix too?
Yeah, I did a Netflix post about five years ago.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that was the last one that I watched.
And then I watched you in Denver, and it was like way different than the stand-up that you were doing before.
Oh, sweet, bro.
Dude, it was sick, man.
Was it good?
Yeah, bro.
It was so creative.
Oh, thanks, man.
It was like, I don't know.
Yeah, because I'm really interested in comedy.
I'm like a big fan of comedy, too.
Oh, sweet.
I like all the different styles that all you guys have and stuff.
And like, yeah, man, I was just like, whoa, that was weird.
And it was like so good, you know?
Thanks, bro.
Dude, it was super good, man.
Yeah, was that at the something north or whatever that place was?
Yeah.
The one that's outside of town a little?
Outside of Denver?
Yep, yep, yep.
Yeah.
That's a fun.
That room is really funny.
You're almost like in the round, kind of?
Yeah, that's what everyone says.
Dude, thanks for coming out, bro.
That's awesome.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, man.
That's cool, man.
Yeah, dude.
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
I appreciate you.
I appreciate you coming out.
You know who I got to meet at a show one time, too?
Was Anthony Lionheart Smith came out to a show, which was pretty cool, dude.
He's a cool dude, huh?
Yeah, this was like three or four years ago.
Yeah, such the nicest dude.
And then Poirier came and had a show in New Orleans about three years ago, and he came.
And literally the whole time he was, this is back when he was still like, he's definitely like, still, can be as angry as he wants to be.
But he was almost like posted up at the edge of the, at the edge of the, he's the only person not in a seat, bro.
Just ready to fucking go to a war.
Back against the wall.
Totally back against the wall.
Checking, bro, like Thomas used to do, dude.
Yeah, yeah.
It was pretty, it was pretty, it was interesting, man.
He's a cool dude, too, huh?
He's a nice guy.
Is his hot sauce good?
It is good, bro.
I'll get you some of it sent, man.
How many are there?
Like, 10 different flavors?
There's a lot.
No, he just has his own one flavor, but it is good.
He's cool, man.
I think he was talking about some anger after his last fight.
Remember after seeing him in the cage against Connor?
He was like, he was happy, obviously, because he'd won, but he was like upset.
He's like, I don't love this shit no more and stuff.
I think a lot of it was, yeah.
I think a lot of it was like.
I think first, I don't know.
This is all speculation.
I think some of it was like that belt in their weight division, it's kind of become this ornament and not a real reflection of who is at the top.
Dude, I've almost always felt like chasing a belt is kind of, you know, it's a goal, but it's like, man, you can only control so much in that world, man.
Like, what if, you know, what if Dustin doesn't fight for the belt next, you know?
Right.
So what if I just control?
Right.
Or what if I don't?
You know, like that doesn't, that doesn't feel like as in control as maybe it used to be, or maybe it was an illusion.
And now that I'm here, it's like, oh no, there's like a lot of other factors that go into winning a belt other than just me beating people.
Right.
So it's kind of weird, man.
And it's just a weird place in the sport, too, where it's like, you know, it's kind of the fame game a little bit.
You know, like you got to be a little bit up in like your social media account and all of that jazz in order to kind of get what you want.
Or at least to be able to call a little bit of the shots.
Right.
Which is fine.
That's the world that we live in now.
Yeah, it's a business.
I think in you guys' business too.
In you guys', I think the longer you're in it, the longer you're in anything, it's more of a business.
Like I used to go to the comedy clubs and I was just excited if people were there.
And then you've doing it for 15 years.
You're like, well, did we sell tickets?
You know, it's like some of that gets in your head somewhere.
You know, like is the audience happy?
Like you just, you're just, you start to have more concerns.
I used to think some of that's just life.
But yeah, I mean, you guys are in a business that was like everything's a business.
Society is just kind of like this structure of things that were put together by people, you know.
When you we got a question right here from a young fella.
What's up, Theo?
What's up, Corey?
Dallas from Staten Island, New York here.
Huge fan of both of you guys.
Theo, me and my wife, got to see you about a year ago out in Red Bank, New Jersey.
The show was crazy.
Hoping we can see you again real soon.
Oh, thanks, brother.
Corey, my question for you is, how well do you really know Brendan Schaub?
Because he's always talking about, he's texting you, he's talking to you at FIFAs.
Besides, Food Truck Diary, I know you guys are from Aurora, Colorado.
Let them know.
People are doubting.
I'm not a doubter.
I know you guys know each other.
Let the world know.
Gang, gang, saying move.
There you go, dog.
Are people doubting that?
What is there to doubt?
People doubt.
Brendan gets doubted a lot, I think.
So I think people want to know.
Yeah, he has that look, bro.
Yeah, I think Brendan just has that.
Yeah, he has, and he has nine different shows.
I think people just start to doubt him, you know?
He's a chef.
He runs a food.
He said something different on each one just to accommodate to each different audience.
So I think people are like, what is the truth here, Brendan?
You guys never fought each other, right?
No, no, no.
Hell no.
No, when I was 17 or 18 years old, we were all training at this gym called Grudge.
And it's like where all the really good guys train, like Shaw was there, Ludwig was there, Mark Quart was there, GSP would stop in, Rashad Evans, like all of those really, really big names.
And so I used to train there when I was like, you know, like a 140 pounds, like soaking wet, you know?
And probably, you know, maybe shouldn't have been in that room at that time.
But yeah, I mean, we were all in that room together.
And I think that, you know, while me and Brendan were never like, you know, I was 17 years old, he was fighting in the UFC.
It's not like we were hanging out.
Right.
That would be a little weird, actually.
Yeah, because he would be an adult.
That would be illegal also, probably.
But I mean, nah, man, we share that, like, those same Aurora roots, you know, like it's just, like I said, man, it's like a community.
Aurora feels like a community.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Was he the kind of guy, if you went and asked him for a suggestion, he would get like advice or something, he would share it?
He was definitely.
I think so.
Yeah.
Everyone was pretty cool at Grudge.
Yeah, Brennan was definitely like one of the superstars there for sure during that time.
It's so funny because I don't know, like, to me, I don't know him at that as that at all.
Like, I don't ever even see that look in his eyes anymore.
Like, you know, what it takes to be a fight.
Like, not that he doesn't have it.
I'm not saying that.
But he doesn't ever turn that on in any environment that he and I are ever in.
It's no longer part of his survival.
Yeah, it's probably true.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's probably no longer part of his survival, man.
Dude, this was heartbreaking, man.
I remember I put a comment on your IG after your last fight, and it was barely even like, I was like, way to go.
good job or something.
It was so like...
Bro, that's how I feel.
It was so supportive.
I was trying to be supportive, but also it was like Frank Yeager's just like beloved by humanity, and I know by you as well.
How hard is that, man?
Like, is because no other, like, I guess there's other sports where that kind of stuff happens, but how hard is it to go out there and fight like a guy?
Well, here, is he asking it right here?
We'll let this guy ask it, so, because he sent it in.
Hey, Corey, being a fighter, you know, you're going to every fight trying to win, of course.
But as a human, as a human being, how did it feel knocking a legend like Frankie Edgert out?
That shit would shook me for sure.
A lot of people were still sharp.
Gang, gang.
Gang, bruh.
Yeah, man, like I said, man, there's two different people for me, man.
Like, there's, you know, I got to be a type of way when I go in the cage, and I can be a different type of way when I'm out.
You know what?
The craziest part of...
No, no, no.
It's okay.
No, no, I don't mind at all, bro.
I'm not curious about you hurt.
I'm just generally curious about the sides of it.
Yeah, yeah.
So once I'm done, you know, with that adrenaline dump that happens, I mean, I almost felt like crying when I was in there.
Well, one, because, yeah, man, like, Frankie's a legend.
I know he's a good dude.
You know, and I know that he's trying to provide for his family and stuff.
And so that sucks.
What trips me out the most about something like that is that not because I'm worried about Frankie, because I know that we're all really tough dudes, you know, like we can handle it.
But just like knowing that he has loved ones that are watching and that I was a part of that and that I probably created, you know, like some definite sadness in that, that's what, like, you know, makes you want to cry.
Yeah, because we're all tough dudes, man.
But, like, I remember having that thought when they were raising my hand where it's like, man, like, his kids saw it, you know, like, his kids are probably worried about him.
His wife is probably worried about him.
And, like, that part really sucks.
Yeah.
That part really, really sucks.
You know, there's no getting around how much that sucks.
Yeah.
But you know what sucks worse?
Huh?
Is that happening to me?
Right.
Damn.
That's what sucks worse.
And that's some of the truth of it.
That's the truth.
And that's, I mean, that's kind of like, you know, Poirier always talks about that's like the beautiful thing about it.
He's like, there's this, it's just this, it's this inescapable, like, it's almost like how the world was started, like this big bang theory.
Like, you know, things broke apart for something to be made.
Like, it's just, I don't know.
It's just.
It's sad, man.
It's sad when you lose.
I know what it feels like, man.
Like, I was choked out by Sterling.
Like, I know, I know what it feels like, man, to open your eyes, see the person running around the cage, excited, like, you know, pumped that he won, and to have the doctor lift you up and sit you on the stool.
Like, I know how that feels, man.
Like, it sucks.
And who was y'all's ref No Nonsense, Keith Heaterson?
For the last one?
Yeah.
I think so, yeah.
Why you like him the most?
I would fight him.
You're a lot bigger than him, bro.
I'll fucking lose weight.
I'll cut a leg.
What would you do, bro?
What would be the strategy if you had to fight someone?
If I went in against No Nonsense, NNKP, first I would probably, I would try to, I'd probably try to wear him down.
How would you do that?
I'd get him up against the cage.
First, I'd run him.
I'd run him until I got tired.
Oh, okay, yeah.
I'd run Chase you.
I'd run him until I got tired.
And then I would get him up against the cage, bro.
And I'd probably...
Stomp on his feet, hold him against the cage and stomp on his feet until he can barely move his feet.
And then I'd fucking hard scarf him, dude.
I'd sneak up behind him.
I'd get him distracted, and I'd sneak up behind him.
Have somebody wave a cigarette or something in the distance, sneak up behind him, and put him in the hard scarf, bro.
What's the hard scarf, bro?
Sit fucking until you finish him out, yeah.
But anyway, and look, I'm just joking, Keith Peterson, unless we're like raising money for charity.
I'm a Keith Peterson fan.
Yeah, me too.
He's a good ref, man.
I like the refs that don't say anything.
The refs that talk, man, I can't stand the refs that talk.
Really?
Yeah, I can't stand it, man, just because it's like, man, no one came to watch you, bro.
It's nonsense.
No one.
You know, that's nonsense, man.
I like to think about it.
It's zero nonsense, bro.
Zero nonsense.
Zilch.
Do bigger fights get bigger refs?
Is there like a ref order that feels like it?
I think that there is.
There definitely is.
Because Herb Dean gets a lot of the big ones, right?
Yeah, he gets a lot of big ones.
No nonsense gets a lot of the big ones.
I like most of the refs, but there's a couple refs where I'll be watching on the TV and I'm just like, just shut up.
Like he's not doing what you're saying because I've been on the other end of that where a ref has been like, quit grabbing his shorts.
And it's like, in my head, I got to be like, I'm not grabbing his shorts.
What's he talking about?
And then that just distracts you.
And when it's like a game of inches, it's like, dude, shut up.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, shut up, dude.
Nobody.
Yeah.
No one came to watch it.
Yeah, you weren't there training with this.
You don't know anything about it.
Yeah.
I could see that.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's, yeah, that's interesting, man.
It's kind of a, it's, it's a, I think it's definitely a different and comforting thought, though, to know that there's some level of that within the fighters that there's all, like, yes, that could also be me.
And we both came into this knowing that that kind of thing can happen and that there's some sense of like care or concern for the person's family, you know, or for the people that are caring about them watching him, you know?
I think you have to be a little bit on the other side or at least have had to experience it to kind of like fully understand that.
Because if you look at ancient samurais, like ancient samurais, you know, they're known for like, you know, obviously being like badass fighters, but they're also known for like the way that they used to live.
And the way that they used to live is like very honorable, very respectful to everyone else.
And like, it got me thinking, it's like, man, like, how can these really brutal soldiers who slash people up with swords also live in a way where it's like, oh, okay, I have honor and I have respect for fellow human beings.
And I'll do this, this, and this to show that.
Or I'll even go as far as to stab myself to keep honor of whatever.
I think it takes a level of having to go through all of those brutal feelings and understand that this is not always fun in games like Poirier said in order to kind of like fully respect the other side of it, which is like life and like when you actually win, how to be a winner because you know what it's like to be the loser.
And I think that that's important, you know.
But that's interesting that Poirier said that it's not fun to him anymore.
He actually says a lot of interesting stuff.
Dude, that's a funny thing.
And that's one thing I always liked about Dustin since I met him was that there's so much more to him than a fighter, you know?
And I think for a lot of guys, it's interesting to see them get to come into whatever else they are as humans.
And I think the world has really gotten to witness that of Dustin over the past few years, you know, like just through his charity and through, you know, through his journey to get paid through the organization.
Like just, you know, like I know when he and Tony let that fight go, it was because of money, I believe.
I think he said that.
I don't want to be talking out of school, but so yeah, to try and stand on some sense of honor and still, you know, grow up.
And yeah, I just think it's interesting.
I think it's interesting why people fight.
You know, I was always like afraid to fight as a kid.
So I'm like, like, and then, but then we're all fighting for something in some way.
You know, we're all trying to like find some way to express ourselves.
So I guess sometimes I wonder if fighting is just a way that you guys express yourself.
I always wonder.
Does it feel like that?
I always wonder this.
I always wonder like, okay, Am I working harder than other people in other professions?
Or is me winning feel better because of, you know, it's fighting?
Or does it feel worse to lose because it's fighting or whatever?
And I think that anything that you try to do at like your best, if you don't reach that, it's still going to suck for everyone.
So I think that it's like, yeah, it's like this expression of yourself or whatever.
But I think that, yeah, man, it's just like, I don't know why people want to play the piano all day, but there's some people out there that want to play the piano all day.
And then there's like some people that want to like do math equations all day.
And like to me, that seems like hell.
But like, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know what that is in different people or what, but like, that crosses my mind all the time.
It's like, man, you couldn't have chosen something different for me, bro.
Podcasting or something.
You could have done drywall or something.
Have you ever drywalled, bro?
That shit's worse than fighting, bro.
It's a gateway drug, too, dude.
There's no way you start drywall and don't end up doing drugs, bro.
That's true.
Here's a question right here.
Wait, is this my, is this, what's this guy's name?
Does he say it?
Yo, Theo, Nick, Corey, what's going on, guys?
It's your boy Chico from St. Louis, Missouri here.
Got a couple quick questions for the Sandman.
Corey, first off, congrats on the huge knockout of Frankie Deanster.
Edgar had to have felt fucking crazy knocking out a legend like that.
But congrats again.
I'd love to know what you think of the matchup between Al Jermaine Sterling and Peter Jan.
I know you lost to Al Jermaine, you know, a couple months ago, and that was your first loss in 2017.
So what do you think of that matchup?
And also, are you itching to get a rematch to Al Jermaine?
So who do you think is going to win that fight?
And who do you want to win in that fight?
Much love to you guys.
Gang, gang.
Take care.
Yeah, how do you feel like that?
Aljermaine's such a nice guy too, man.
How do you feel about their fight coming up?
Are you excited to watch it?
Yeah, I'm super pumped to watch it.
I think it's going to go like the entire five rounds.
So like from a strategic standpoint, I like to like, you know, I think that I'll get like a lot of in college.
Yep.
But I don't know, man.
I flip a coin every single time.
Like every time I get asked, I just change my answer depending on the day.
So I think stylistically and like technically better, I think Jan's probably the better technical fighter.
But being a technical fighter doesn't mean that you're the better fighter.
I've been in the cage with Al Jamaine and he has a level of intensity like we were talking about before with the energy that's a lot different than everyone else that I fought.
So I think that he really has that going for him.
And I think Al Jamain's been really open about his strategy about this.
He keeps talking about how he's going to wrestle the guy for five rounds.
I don't know how smart it is to reveal your strategy like that, but he must be really confident in it.
And I do think that his grappling and just him in general is really underrated.
Like I think he's definitely way up there as far as fighters go in the UFC.
And I don't know, man.
If you had to ask me for whatever reason, I just like, I like Al Jermaine a little bit.
So I always, you know, I root for people, not for him.
It's fun to cheer for.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's something about him that's very fun to cheer for.
Yeah, that's going to be interesting, man.
Y'all's division is getting so interesting.
They're good too, man.
Everyone's really, like we were talking about, man, everyone's good, bro.
Yeah.
Everyone's good.
It's crazy.
Does it start to get scary to think that you might have to fight for like the next 10 years?
Does that start to ever get spooky?
It was spooky, bro.
It was pretty spooky until I accepted it, man.
Like I told you, it was just like this moment where I was like, I think it was after I fought this guy.
Do you know who John Lineker is?
He don't fight in the UFC anymore, bro, but he's like 5'2, built like a brick, and like his head is, you know, like this big.
And he like cracks, bro.
Like he cracks.
It was my third fight in the UFC.
I was so scared to fight that dude.
And then after I beat John Lineker, I was like, damn, man, like every single fight.
Yeah, yeah, that's John.
Oh, yeah, dude.
I've definitely seen him at Panama City Spring Break before, dude.
And he was not happy.
He's the one running sprints in the sand, bro.
Yeah, dude.
He's doing fucking sprints at the bar.
There's always that guy, man.
He's doing push-ups in the bathroom, bro.
I'm just joking, dude.
Wow.
Yeah, so after I fought him, because he was in the top 10 for my third UFC fight.
And after I fought John, that's when it kind of hit me where I was like, yep, this is going to be hard for the next 10 years of my life.
It's kind of like playing punch out after you beat, or like a boxing game, after you beat a hard guy, you have to pause it, and then you kind of go get some water or something.
You come back, you're like, fuck, man.
They're all going to be really hard from now on.
Yeah.
And dude, you know what else too?
It's like everyone will be like, ah, like, cool.
You get to take a little break after your win, blah, blah, blah.
It's like, no, I don't.
You know, like, I kind of do just from like the warrior part of me.
Like, I can be a lot less competitive now.
But as far as like me getting better, man, like, this shit only gets harder, bro.
Like, it only gets harder.
The better people I beat, the harder I got to work.
It's like, I thought it'd be the opposite.
I thought I'd get into the UFC.
I'd start, you know, I'd start winning and like, I'd get into a groove and shit would be easier and more routine.
But like, man, like, it's just harder.
Every time I win, I'm just like, all right, well, that was the last easiest fight of your life.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
That sucks.
Now that I just said it, that sucks.
But hearing that, to me, it makes perfect sense because that's the thing inside of you that makes you what you are anyway.
It's that thing.
It's like the next, there's always something else.
You know, I'm always going to have to learn.
There's always more to learn or more to do.
Yeah, it's the challenge, bro.
Like this is why it interested me when Poirier said, this isn't even fun for me anymore.
Like, I almost feel the same way.
Depending on how you define fun.
If fun means like, oh, I'm enjoying myself, it's not fun to me.
I'm not enjoying any part of that process.
I see people, even the week of the fight, it's like, oh, like, okay, this is my taper week.
Like, I can kick back and like, I can enjoy my fight week and I'll go like jet ski or, you know, visit this or visit that or whatever.
And it's like, dude, during fight week, I lay in bed and I just think about the fight and what I'm supposed to do.
And that's all I do.
Like I watch maybe one or two hours of TV.
I maybe, if I'm getting a little overwhelmed in my head, we'll go like hang out with my coaches and stuff.
But other than that, man, I'm laying in bed resting my mind and like getting myself ready to like do this.
It's like not enjoyable, bro.
even camp.
Camp isn't even that enjoyable.
I would say the most enjoyable part for me in this whole thing is just coming up with my own shit and me and Christian working together and me and Carrington working together and me and some of the jiu-jitsu guys that I work with like inventing or like at least like trying to get really good at like the things that we're doing.
Like that's enjoyable for me.
And like the winning part is enjoyable.
But man, like everything else is just challenge.
It's not like fun.
Right.
Yeah.
I think there's something that happens with in success, man, where some things kind of become like that.
And that starts to become the next battle in some ways.
Any more water?
No, I'm good.
That starts to become the next battle in some ways is like, how do I make where I'm at now as enjoyable as an experience as possible?
Did you go through that?
Yeah, man.
I think it is.
Is it still enjoyable?
There's moments that are enjoyable, but I had a lot more.
Like, I remember, dude, when we were getting Dustin Fourier on, dude, we were so excited.
You remember that?
Dude, we were so excited.
He had salon quality hairstyle was his nickname.
And he was, we were so fired up, dude.
And I still get ways.
It's not that things aren't exciting.
It's like I think some of it is you just get used to some stuff.
And there's nothing you can do.
That's just experience.
There's nothing you can do to kind of go back to that level of excitement you had like when you were probably first training and doing well against a guy at grudge.
Yeah, I mean, my scariest fight was my first fight.
Yeah.
My scariest fight was my first fight.
Really?
Yeah, probably, you know, because it's like your first one.
Was your white belt?
Or what was it?
Or is it not even like that?
Dude.
The white belt's just jiu-jitsu.
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't consider jiu-jitsu matches fights.
There's enough fights.
There's seven years of my life, bro.
But no, respect, bro.
Yeah, for real, bro.
I'm just fucking around, bro.
But no, no, no.
Totally, I feel you.
Dude, I fought in this place.
Bro, I'm pretty sure it was like a house, dude.
Like a gutted house, bro.
I'm almost positive it was like a gutted house.
It was in the neighborhood, bro.
Oh, dude.
That's man.
When you pull up to the fight and the driveway's full.
So, dude, it was this morning.
Was it sanctioned?
No.
It was a more tight tournament.
I think I was 18 years old.
Dude, I'm not kidding you, bro.
The ring was probably much smaller.
Actually, the ring was probably about this size, bro.
It was probably like an 8x8, dude.
In like this gutted house.
And like, it was matted.
8x8 ring.
Everyone was warming up.
You sat on the floor if you wanted to watch the fights.
You just crowded around.
You watched the fights.
And yeah, that was my first fight or first tournament.
And so that was one of the scariest moments?
Yeah, that was one of the scariest moments because it's just like, you know, I had never really been in a fight against, you know, like an actual real fight.
I had never been in before.
How real is this stuff they talk about Ring Rust?
Is that a real thing?
I don't know.
I don't think I've ever been out long enough to have experienced that.
But I do think, though, that when I fight, you know, four months apart, three months apart, I can kind of, I feel a little bit different.
Like I feel a lot more comfortable than I do if I'm on an eight-month break.
So with the upcoming match, you have to wait to see what happens with one of these guys, if that's the guy you choose to fight, or that's the guy that they want to match you with?
I hope so.
But there's not somebody else from...
Would they try and offer you somebody that is in the rankings that's beneath you currently?
I think that me and Dillashaw, if they don't do...
Yeah, you forgot about him.
They're bringing him back.
They got a cheat code or something.
Yeah, so that would be crazy, huh?
Yeah.
I mean, I think if it's not the winner of their fight, then it's got to be Dillashaw because, I mean, Garbrandt's going down.
I don't know what Aldo's doing.
Font's really good, but he's kind of in the same position I was in maybe like three fights ago where, you know, I think that Font's really good, but I think he needs to string like, you know, some top five wins together before I think they start considering him for a title shot too.
Is there somebody from the past that you wish was like somebody you would like to have fought or fought?
Not even out of anger, just out of like pure, like, it would be awesome, like somebody from the past that you grew up watching or anything like that?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, Cruz.
Cruz was definitely in that conversation for a long time.
He might fight.
He looks like you climb over the cage and fight any day most of the time.
Who, Cruz?
Dominic Cruz?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, he's always pretty.
Did he retire?
What happened?
I think he might actually have something scheduled.
Casey Kenny.
Yeah, he's fighting Casey Kenny.
When is that one in March?
When he gets sometime in March.
I like him, man.
I like watching him.
Yeah, when he's because you kind of never know what he's going to say.
Sometimes he'll get a little bit angsty with the other sportscasters and shit.
He's, you know, like, he has something about him that's, you know, intimidating.
Yeah.
I like that.
It's cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's on 259.
Nice.
Wow.
That's the 13th?
6. Oh, he's on that one.
He's on that card?
Yeah, that card is insane.
Yeah, my teammate Dober's fighting on that card, too.
Yeah, who's on that card, man?
That's bananas.
Three title fights.
Santos Rockic.
Oh, Maka.
Yeah, this fight is insane.
Or card is insane.
What do you think about that Blockovic fight and Adesanya?
I'm going to go with Adesanya just because.
I think honestly, Blakovich definitely has power, bro.
Like, that's different.
And Adesanya's going up a weight class?
He's going up a weight class to 205.
So what can happen when you go up a weight class?
What are some Things that can happen, not even specifically to them, but what are some things that could be good or bad?
I mean, the bigger animal, it's like the law of nature.
The bigger animal usually beats the littler animal.
But I think.
So that's kind of a little bit of a natural kind of pitfall.
Yeah, I mean, there's weight classes for a reason.
Like, if someone has 30 pounds on me and they're, you know, not nearly as good as me, you know, they have a better chance against someone who's my weight for sure, you know, just because they're bigger.
Right, they can lay on you and hold you down.
Yeah, and it's harder to move them.
Like, I think that there's two types of strength in jiu-jitsu.
This might help you a little bit too, but there's the type of strength where I can move you really easy, and then there's the type of strength where I make it so that you can't move me very easy.
There's those two types of strength.
And at my weight, I can move people, you know.
But if someone's 30 pounds heavier than me, like it's, you know, I can't move them as easy.
And like, that makes things a little bit harder.
So yeah, so that's one thing.
But I think that that dude has different level of power that I think Israel's not dumb enough to overlook.
You know, I think that Israel's like a super smart dude and I don't think he's going to leave any stone unturned or like lie to himself in his head.
Like I see people do that all the time in fighting just because I like going back to the ego stuff.
Like I'll see them say some stuff where I'm just like, you're only saying that because it helps you sleep at night.
Oh, this guy's slow or oh, this guy can't grapple.
It's like, man, you're only saying that so that you can feel a little bit better about yourself.
And I notice that right away, you know?
Israel, I don't notice that in, you know, where Israel doesn't, he's not like, oh, this guy's slow.
It's like, or no, he doesn't have power.
He like acknowledges the strengths in the other person.
And I think that that's a really obvious sign that like the person is intelligent.
You know, I think it's really unintelligent to just overlook everything that your opponent has that they do well and just create an excuse for it.
Yeah.
But I think he's real smart enough, man.
And I think he has enough experience.
And I'm sure that he's had plenty of fights in kickboxing where he's fought really big dudes too that like we have never even heard of because the dude has like a million kickboxing fights.
Especially in New Zealand.
Yeah.
Everybody there is a pretty big dude.
Yeah, bro.
Hooker used to fight at like heavyweight or something.
Really?
Yeah.
I used to train with Hooker, bro.
He like demoralized me.
Did you?
Yeah, when he used to be.
He's funny, isn't he?
Yeah, he's funny.
He used to.
Like humorous.
I'm not saying, Dan Hooker, that there's anything wrong with you.
I just mean he's an entertaining guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He used to, he's actually a really quiet guy, I think, in person.
Is he?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm a fan of a fan.
Yeah, yeah.
When he used to train with us or whatever, dude, he would whoop me, bro.
Really?
Whoop me, dude.
Why were you guys?
Was we guys faring for fun?
No, he was like on, he was like training with our team and stuff back then.
Well, but not the same weight.
I was a 45er back then, and he was a 45-er back then, bro.
Yeah.
And I was like, that's why it demoralized me is because I was like, dude, I'm never going to be fucking able to fight these guys, dude.
What?
Are you kidding me?
It's like, I got to be a 25er to beat these guys if they're going to be this size.
He's wearing you like a backpack.
He's putting pencils and pens in your pants.
He's fucking putting his school books in there.
They used to tell me, though, like, Hooker was never used to break his diet.
I mean, I'm sure at 55, it's maybe a little bit different, but yeah, some guys on the team that like knew him a little bit better would be like, yeah, man, like, he never breaks his diet.
And I was like, wow.
Fuck, man, he needs to go up so that I can feel a little better about myself, man.
And so that's when you were at 145?
Yeah, I used to, my debut was at 45 because I didn't want to, I know how the UFC works.
Like, you get a short notice call, and that's how you get into the UFC.
Like, very rarely do guys ever get into the UFC by, you know, like, hey, here's an eight-week camp and here's your first date in the UFC.
That's not how it works, bro.
Like, someone pulls out and then, and then, so actually, I fought in Phoenix a week before my UFC debut.
So I fought on Friday, and then I won that fight as I'm taking off my hand wraps.
Someone from the commission is like, hey, man, like, UFC is on the phone.
They're like, hey, can you fight next week?
And I'm like, I guess I'm not partying tonight.
But yeah, I mean, I'll definitely, you know, I'll definitely do that.
And was that an exciting call to get?
Oh, dude, it was so exciting, man.
So exciting.
Was that like the best?
Was that like the call?
It was the call, bro.
It was the call.
And like, for whatever crazy.
Yeah, bro.
For whatever reason, man, like, I get really pumped knowing that I made my loved ones really proud.
Yeah.
You know?
And I remember, like, it's one of my favorite parts.
Like, when I do the visualizations, I do a lot of visualizations of what happens after the fight, too, because it really motivates me, you know, and it makes me feel nice.
Like, I'll imagine FaceTime and my family and my girlfriend.
And, you know, and like, you know, they're super pumped for me and stuff.
So that's what that was for me.
I remember I was on the phone with my sister and for whatever reason, like, it was my sister, but I called my sister and I was like, hey, like, I did it.
Like, they want me, you know, next week.
And then I was like, yeah.
And then I remember talking to Christian, and I was like, I was like watching his film because I was like, fuck it.
If I get a contract, I don't care how tough the guy is.
I don't care if he beats my ass as long as I get a contract and I watch the guy.
This is when, you know, my confidence wasn't like where it is now.
And I was like, oh, shit, I think I'm really going to beat this guy.
Like, it was like some surprise.
You know, Christian was like, yeah, dude, they're calling you for a reason, dumbass.
Oh, so you think they thought you would beat the guy?
I don't know if they did or not, but that dude fought on the contender series.
And they just needed a replacement fight.
Like, they have to put a certain amount of fights to fill their TV slot or whatever.
And yeah, that's how you get signed to the UFC pretty much is like some short notice like that.
Damn.
Yeah, it was cool.
Dude, I remember the time I got a text from Joe Rogan to come be on his podcast.
And that was that for me.
Nice.
It was like the best thing out of Sherman being like, what?
What am I going to do?
I brought him a bag of oranges, dude.
I didn't know what to do.
People said he likes diet or something, so I fucking diet.
So I bought him like a bag of clementines and brought him over there.
They thought I was ready to party, bro.
I fucking showed up with a bag of orange.
How'd it go?
It went fine.
It wasn't scary.
It was so scary, bro.
Really?
Why wasn't it?
It was like, dude, honestly, I think going and that would almost be like going and being in a fight, man.
Yeah.
It was so scary.
Were you like, were you more like, were you like, don't fuck this up?
Type of?
I was just scared.
It was like I knew other people that had been on it, like famous people, educators.
That was the part that really.
I don't know.
Joe doesn't care if you say that you're going to be on his show either, right?
Uh-uh.
Yeah, I'm going on his show next week.
Yeah.
No way.
Bro.
Bro, so I got a text from him or an Instagram message.
I know, bro.
It just came randomly from him.
Yeah, yeah.
You know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, dude.
I was like, guess you text me, you know?
Like, I was super pumped, but I was like, in my head, though, I'm just like, yeah, man, there's fucking real legit people, you know?
Yeah.
Like smart, you know, like legit people that are like the foes on their fucking alien on their last leaf.
Yeah, they're like changing the world and shit, you know?
I'll be honest, I just had a sip of Diet Coke.
And I'll also be honest that I have mental health issues.
And, you know, we're all fighting something.
And sometimes we're fighting demons from the past.
BetterHelp.
That's right.
Better Help is here to help you if something is interfering with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals.
BetterHelp will assess your needs and match you with a licensed professional therapist.
That's what they do.
There's a broad range of expertise available.
You can do it on the phone, over text, over FaceTime.
They're committed to getting great therapeutic matches.
It's easy and free to change counselors if you need to.
BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today.
Visit betterhelp.com slash Theo.
That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash Theo.
Join the over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health.
This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp.
And this past weekend, listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash Theo.
You need help, get help.
Look, you want to look good, right?
You want your body to look nice.
And as a man, it's hard.
It's hard to get your body.
Your body's lumpy.
You got a lump in the front that wean.
It's hard to get tight.
Your shoulders are round.
You don't know what the hell's going on.
Well, Faboletics, men, represents for every guy who wants to look and feel his best without breaking the bank.
You can't spend $2 million on a chiffon shirt.
Keep it simple.
That means Lululemon quality for half the price because they know guys deserve nothing less than the best gear on the market.
Go to fabuletics.com slash Theo for access to an insane deal.
Get your first two pairs of shorts for just $24.
That's right.
$12 a pair when you become a Faboletics Men VIP member at checkout.
All styles, all colors, no exclusions.
It's an insane deal because they know that once you try their gear, you will be hooked.
To get the best activewear at the best prices, get at least 20 to 50% off retail prices every time you shop.
Faboletics.
Faboletics men get free shipping on all orders over $49.
Free returns and exchanges within 45 days.
We're talking top quality at half the price.
Each month, VIP members can choose to be billed $49.95 for a member credit.
Members can use that credit toward any item or kit up to $80.
That's right.
Get billed $49.95.
Get a credit that costs something up to $80.
Or you can skip the month and pay nothing.
There's no limit to how many times you can skip.
That's right.
Go to faboletics.com slash Theo for the insane deal.
That's awesome, man.
Yeah, dude, it was so much fun.
And then also, I think for you to be able to go in there and talk to a guy that just knows so much about what you guys do.
And yeah, that's awesome.
I think I was just, I'm intimidated by Joe as a person.
And it's nothing he does.
It's just who I am and where I kind of come into relationships sometimes, I think.
But so I think I was probably kind of nervous about that, maybe.
What else?
Do you still feel that way?
If I went back on still, I would feel that way.
I think some things make me feel a little bit...
Oh, yeah.
Live feels very nervous, you know?
Like, I wish you guys at least that's what I feel bad for you guys.
Like, damn, this is live.
Like, if you get fucking hit, you can't ask them to edit it.
Like, hey, can you just edit this so it just looks like a square dance between two people?
But that's awesome, man.
I feel like being alive, that's like the call to get, like, getting to go there.
And you get to go to Austin too and see the new place.
That's fucking cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Dude, that's so cool.
Yeah, man, I don't really, you know, I don't see myself as someone that's like, you know, I don't know if this is the advice that I would give every fighter or whatever.
But like, man, I remind myself all the time how much I suck at this.
Like, I remind myself that all the time.
So, like, when you messaged me and was like, hey, can I come on your, I was like, pumped because like, to me, in my head, still, I think, because of the, you know, what helps me survive is that, like, I still don't think I'm like any good.
Yeah.
You know, like, I know that I'm good comparatively to everyone else, but I still don't feel like I'm like good because I understand like what good actually means in my brain.
And so, like, when I get a text from you or like, Joe or whatever, and that happens, and I was like, oh shit, dude, I don't really think I'm Good enough for that.
Right.
Yeah, maybe there's probably some of that when I'm thinking back on that.
Well, I'm trying to think if I had some of that.
Yeah, I think, well, it's also interesting because a lot of the life is bandwagon.
A lot of people are bandwagon.
As much as we don't want to think that we are or that other, like, you know, it's like, but also some of it is you have to get, it's so hard to get people's attention.
Yeah.
So it's not like that people didn't care.
A lot of times it's like people's attention is divided by a million.
So to get 5% of that for, you know, for a day or whatever, it's like, it's just hard to get people to see you in the world because there's so many people.
Yeah.
But dang, that's awesome though, dude.
That's really cool.
Just because, yeah, Joe introduced, actually, the first fighter I ever met, I think, was from Joe, and it was Al Jermaine Sterling at the comedy store.
Nice.
Nice.
And I remember thinking that this guy's a fighter?
Not thinking that he wasn't.
You always think fighters of like, you know, these big, like from 300 or something.
And then they're just kind of like in stature from sight.
He seemed like a totally normal, nice guy.
Yeah.
So I used to go to Alpha Male a little bit.
You know, Team Alpha Male?
Like where Garbrandt Faber, all of those dudes.
Oh, damn.
Garbrandt Faber, Dilla Shaw used to train there.
Benavidez used to train there.
So like some really good names.
So anyways.
Faber has the heaviest handshake, dude.
You try to shake his hand?
Who, Faber?
You better work for Law than you.
The dude is a guy.
Fucking my God.
Bro, it's like you had four hands in each hand.
Like, how many hands do you have, dude?
Dude, so I went out to there because for whatever reason on our team, it's like a bunch of tall, lanky guys.
Like, we don't have that build where it's like short, stocky, strong guys.
So I go out.
I wasn't even a professional yet.
I had just gone out to help Dillashaw train for his fight against Barrow.
Yeah, I was still an amateur, actually, back then.
But I go out to help him, bro, and I like get there.
And everyone's this tall, bro.
I was like, what is going on?
Because the cage, so, bro, the cage at most of our gyms are like six feet high, you know?
But the UFC cage must be like five foot eight or something, whatever it is.
So like when I walk into the UFC cage, I feel like a monster, you know, because I can, yeah, because I. That we see?
Yeah, yeah, because I can kind of like look over the cage a little bit, you know?
But the cages that we all use to train in are much higher.
So like I thought that all of those people were like the size of that cage, you know?
So when I got there, I was like, all these little guys jumping rope, like, you know, I was like, what are these guys?
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's funny.
But yeah, the UFC cage is actually pretty cool because that's a squad right there.
Yep.
Oh, damn, yeah, dude.
This is like Menudo.
This is like a Latino boy band, bro.
No offense either.
No offense.
Just everyone's jacked to this, bro.
It was funny, bro.
It was funny my first time out.
I was like, Dilla Shaw's in Y'all's weight division?
Yep, he's a 35er.
And what about Henry Cejudo?
He is?
Yeah, he won the 35 belt.
And he's gone.
What happened to him?
He went to fight where?
He went to another planet or something.
Where is he?
He retired.
He went on another planet.
I think he's retired.
I think he wants a lot of money, man.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, Dana doesn't pay to his man, bro.
That's the facts, dude.
Yeah, you got to be a McGregor, I think, to get the money that he's asking for.
Wow.
But at a certain level, you got to decide, yeah, is it worth me doing this again?
Yeah.
But you also know what's cool in MMA too is that, like, Cejudo could come back in a couple of years.
Like, that's a real thing.
Yeah.
Like, what sport is like that?
You know?
Where it's just like, yeah, I'm back.
You know, guess what?
Yeah, like, Foreykman just comes back and they put him in a game.
Fuck no.
That's really true, bro.
Yeah, there's no other sport like that.
And it's been fascinating that during this pandemic that you guys were able to get it done.
I mean, it's really because it's like the sport has progressed so much, so many new eyes on the sport.
I mean, the amount of like followers and supporters that people are getting now.
I mean, it's huge.
And it's allowing, and I feel like this is one of the ways that God even things out, is that a lot of guys not getting paid fairly via the organization.
And you don't have to agree with that.
That's my own summation of it.
And I'm just a fan and I don't know very much.
But now a lot of them are able to do other marketing things and do other things where they're able to make some extra money because their followings are also getting so big.
Sure, sure.
So that's really like such a blessing for those guys, you know?
Because to go out there and put your fucking, I mean, a guy comes out of there with one eye, you know, and it's like, and he's got fucking $11,000.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're right.
You know, dude, if I wasn't able to fight in the last year because the UFC had to shut down, I don't know what I would do, man.
I would be half crazy, bro.
What would you have done?
What's a job you would have gone into?
And we'll pull that question up right now.
Is this it, Nick?
Boom.
This question's for Corey, but Theo, you can answer it too if you want.
I was wondering, what would you do as an occupation if you weren't an MMA fighter for the UFC?
Thanks.
Gang, gang.
Gang, bro.
So that would have been it, man.
What would you have done, you think, in this time if shit would have gone away?
You gotta do something more.
I mean, I told you I was working at that residential treatment facility.
Yeah, so I was working there.
I mean, I probably would still be doing that, you know, like before the UFC when I was actually getting paid.
Like I was doing that, bro, like overnights, Saturdays, Sundays.
Wow.
I was working 12s.
You know, I'm not going to say it was like I was grinding a 60-hour week.
You know, like it was probably like 20 to 25 hours a week, but that was on top of maybe like 20, 25 hours of training and then like another probably 10 or 15 hours of like holding myths for people and trying to make money that way too.
So I'd probably be doing something in social work is my guess.
You know, like that like kids, bro, I'd much rather have a conversation with a kid than I would like an adult any day of the week.
Like I just get along with them better.
I think that they have more, you know, advice that maybe is a little bit better than a lot of adults' advice.
You know, and I like learning from kids, man.
Like that's a, that's my second thing in life.
You know, it's fighting, and then it's probably, you know, just hanging out with kids in any type of setting.
I think when I was 16, even, I used to work at this daycare center.
I would leave high school, boom, go to there.
It was at the elementary school that I was with.
I would work there until 6, and I was doing that five days a week.
And then I went off to college, and then right after college, I went and got that treatment facility gig.
And then, yeah, so I've been around kids.
I'm teaching the kids program at high altitude martial arts and really?
Yep.
Dude, that's dope, bro.
Yeah, man.
I just like hanging with them.
They must be so psychful.
Dude, they only started giving me respect when I got into the video game, bro.
Oh, they don't leave.
Yeah, bro.
They're in the video game now?
Yeah.
Damn.
Yeah, that's what that's, bro.
All of them come up to me.
They don't know it.
You know, like they watch my fights now, but before it was just like, you fighting John Cena?
When are you fighting John Cena?
I'm like, shut up.
And they wouldn't, you know, like they would listen, but they wouldn't really listen.
And now that I'm in a game, and now they all chirp to each other that I'm in a video game, like now it's like, you know, I got some juice.
Now I get a virtual man.
Yeah.
The guy's fucking, he's got a hologram, dude.
It brings you up to those top notch.
Have you seen those basketball cards that are out now?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You see this?
Let's bring this up.
Top-notch?
Christian, I'm sure you probably did too, man.
Collecting some type of a card, baseball, basketball, football.
Now the cards are virtual.
It's a top shop.
Oh, bro, I heard that they're doing like virtual art also, where you can earn or buy virtual art.
Really?
I think so.
I sometimes just make stuff up, though.
I would believe something like that.
I mean, this is, you get a card.
Can you show us what one of the cards is in it?
Yeah.
This is it right here.
So just an example.
You can get a Tyler Harrow sop shot, and it's basically just a play.
You own.
They have a limited number of these that they make.
And if you get that in your pack, then you get that.
You buy it like a pack of cards for a certain amount of money.
You open it up.
It has a certain number of these in it.
And instead of just an image of them doing something, you have a video of them doing something.
So you could eventually, at some point, you could have a top shot.
How do you feel about this?
You know, I will admit that I set an alarm this morning to get up and buy some and slept through it.
Where you got to wake up to get them?
Well, yeah, they only release it at 9 a.m.
That's what they're doing right now.
So I think that's where I'm at with it.
I'm curious, but I'm also willing to continue to get some rest.
And he's eventually going to lose $5.
Do you still watch basketball?
I don't watch basketball anymore.
No, me neither.
It got away from me, I think.
It was one of the sports that got away from me during the pandemic.
Even before that, I wasn't that into it.
So what are you buying then?
That's a good point.
I would just be buying just for the novelty.
Oh, yeah.
That's what I would do is just for the novelty.
I think, yeah, during this pandemic, I got a lot more into watching you guys' sport.
It's weird now, right, to not have a fight on a Saturday.
Like, I don't know when that happened, but like, for me, at least in my life, like, it's like, oh, there's no fight this Saturday.
Like, that's like a weekly thing.
It's like a weekly thing.
It was a big thing a little bit to me.
Yeah.
From end of December to like January 22nd.
It was three Saturdays in a row.
It was fucking horrible.
Yeah, it was weird, right?
And there's like little things that are just kind of funny.
Like I'll remember every time he fights, I'll remember that it's Glover to Cher, not Glover.
And that always fucking blows my mind.
Just like little things that kind of keep me excited about the sport, you know?
But it's fun to like see guys and then go back and watch their old fights and just kind of learn like just some of the history of what goes on.
It's fun to go to classes and then like and like kind of get to have a better idea of like why people are kind of doing little things in the inside of y'all's ring.
The punching part still kind of really spooks me out.
Yeah, it just makes me a little fucking nervous.
I just don't know if I'm ready for that.
But I think part of me wants eventually to get out there and really just get beat up, you know, and just fucking go through that, you know?
Because I think there's something, there's a more unique me on the other side of that.
And so, you know, that's, yeah, like, I think some of that's kind of intriguing to me.
And it's funny because three, four, five years ago, that never would have been something coming out of my mouth.
So it's interesting to see an effect, like somebody like Joe Rogan has had an effect on so many comedians of wanting to learn about mixed martial arts and just bringing eyeballs to it.
And then also, I think it helps with a lot of trauma.
I think it helps people get rid of like just deep-rooted like uncomfort and anger.
It makes me realize that I can interact with another man and be okay.
I'm not going to like, I can fight, technically fight, but still also be okay.
And there's going to be a level of respect.
Whereas I think when I was growing up, nobody was teaching me any kind of lesson of like, you know, you can hit somebody or hit them, they can hit you back, and you can still then be free.
You know, there was nobody was teaching me any level of human interaction that had to do with or how to manage any kind of anger.
So I just think as an adult, it's like, it kind of sucks because I'm having to learn like a lot of like stuff from childhood late in life.
But that's that, there's nothing I can do about that.
That's just my life.
But I do think it's fascinating how going and getting on the mats and like there's a level of camaraderie.
There's a level of tough guys that accept you.
Whereas when you're growing up, the tough guys are always like, it's the, that's the bully.
That's the guy you're afraid to be around, or at least you think you are.
So I think there's so many little levels of like helpful human interaction that go along with it.
That's fascinating.
That's why I think it's fascinating that the childhood trauma, I bet that that kind of stuff can probably be so helpful to those kids.
I mean, I don't do any of that with the kids, but yeah, man, I think it's interesting to listen to you talk because I think everyone does it for like a different reason, you know?
And I think that that's part of like the really cool part is that there could be a number of different things and different paths or whatever.
And like, like you said, man, it's like it can help with like a lot of things.
And like there's a level of camaraderie to it.
And yeah, all of that good stuff, man.
It's good.
I think, bro, and like you watch any animal.
They're all doing it.
They're all little, when they're puppies, bro, they're all fighting each other.
Like puppies fight each other.
Little baby anythings are always like wrestling and fighting each other, you know?
Yeah, it's funny.
we take our kids and fucking let them just sit there and eat cookies, fight these motherfuckers.
Even little kids, though, even little kids, if you put two little kids in a room together and you leave nothing else in there, they'll probably start wrestling with each other, you know?
We need to fucking encourage them, man, dude.
It's inside of everyone, bro.
Like, that's a, I'm a big believer of, like, us, bro.
We're just an animal species that is, like, this much smarter than all the other animal species, bro.
But we're still that animal species.
And, like, we still do, like, we still want more.
Like, we still want to take territory just like every other animal.
We still want to gather more resources and more food just like every other animal, you know?
And we still want to fight just like every other animal.
Yeah, dude.
It's weird, too.
I don't know.
You said you haven't started punching and stuff.
No, no, no, no.
You got an Irv.
Irv over there is a coach that teaches that.
So let me know after you do that.
How I feel, man.
Well, I just want to know if you're able to hit someone.
Okay.
Because I have a lot of people that I coach where they're like, man, it's so weird to hit someone.
It's like weird for me to hit someone.
And I'm like, yeah, because we were told not to do it our whole lives.
You're told not to hit someone your entire life.
Like, it's not going to feel normal to throw a punch.
Have you ever had a dream like that where you go to punch someone in a dream and you can't do it?
Yeah, everyone.
I have that dream.
I've had a million dreams where I can't even, I can literally get my fist to right here and it won't go anymore.
I've had it probably 200 times.
It's weird, huh?
And it's weird.
Yeah, and I'll feel like I'm trying it again and it will not do it.
It's weird, man.
And there's some like, it's like a wall that's like connected to like my feeling.
I don't know what it is, but there's some.
That's crazy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think everyone has that dream.
Or at least a lot of people that I've talked to, at least at the gym, and it's like, yeah, because we're told not to do this.
Or maybe we're like innately really nice creatures and we don't want to hurt people.
But also, I think that it's like we're told not to do it our whole lives.
Like it's weird hitting someone, man.
Like it's weird.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it'd be interesting, man.
I'll have to update you, dude.
But I'm trying to think if we covered everything, Nick.
Yeah, I think so.
I did actually.
Did you plan – you probably planned the knee because, like, everybody's saying, like, Frankie bobs his head when he's – Did you plan the wheel kick?
Was that something you guys talked about?
Or did you just do that in the moment against Morais?
Yeah, that was just in the moment.
Everything was kind of just in the moment.
Yeah, it's a lot of not thinking and just letting the system play out.
I think a little bit with Frankie is there was maybe a little bit more quick thinking going on where I didn't know what he was going to do when we were fighting.
I knew that he'd be eager to wrestle because everyone likely thinks that my wrestling is terrible just based off of my fight with Sterling, which is really the only wrestling exchange that I've had in the UFC.
So I thought he'd be a little bit quick to wrestle.
And then he threw a couple combinations and I was like, oh, this guy, he's going to at least throw a few punches.
And then I threw the kick and I heard his corner say, that's it, Frankie, that's it.
And he was excited that he got out of the way of something that I threw, you know, because not that, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but if I'm Frankie fighting me after I beat Moraes that way and just based off of my other performances, I'm probably a little bit, you know, maybe not the most confident guy in the world, being that Frankie got knocked out a couple times before his fight with Munoz or whatever.
So anyways, when I heard his coach praise him for him missing, I saw like a little bit of spunk in him, you know, and I was like, ah, he's either going to try to shoot or he's going to try to attack again.
Because that's a reaction when people get a little bit of heightened energy.
One of the first reactions is to then do something.
Yep.
Yep.
He's like, oh, I'm doing good.
And I noticed every time he got close to me, he was trying to do something.
He was trying to hit.
I think he kicked me one time too, but there was no playing there or seeing what I was going to do.
It was just like, hey, when we get close enough to this guy, try to hit him.
And he did that twice.
And then I was like, okay, he's probably going to do it a third time.
And that's when I threw that.
Because you'd thrown it against Maraeus, but it didn't land, right?
I've thrown it a number of times.
You know, because I mean, I fight everyone that's shorter than me.
So, like, it'd be stupid for me not to throw something like that.
It's really just like an uppercut with your leg.
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, uppercut with your leg.
But damn, man.
Yeah.
So that just looked dramatic.
Yeah, it was vicious.
Yeah, it was nasty.
Fuck, Jesus Christ.
Still fucking makes me sad, bro.
I mean, I think, yeah, maybe that's why I can't punch people.
That just fucking makes me sad.
Is it hard for Christian to keep challenging you?
I know your coach is here, so I'm going to give you one question about him.
Is it hard for him to keep challenging you?
Like, what do you guys do?
Like, what's kind of different about as you evolve as a fighter and as you kind of put some wins together?
What does coaching look like?
Is it harder for you to learn?
Do you feel like less of a pupil?
Any of those questions land with you?
Yeah, I think it's a little bit more cooperative in the way that we work together.
It's more of like an interaction opposed to him telling me what to do.
But it was never really like that anyways.
I will say, like, Christian's a really interesting guy, you know, and I think that he lives by his own set of rules.
He's like a super, don't think.
Just don't think.
You know, he's very radical in the idea of like just be present and don't think.
And I think that that makes him super, super creative.
And I think that it makes it so that he doesn't view things in a way that is old or is damaged by any other way of doing things.
You know, it'd be like if you went out and did a comedy stand-up and hadn't watched any stand-up before and you just tried to make people laugh.
Like, I feel like that's how he approaches a lot of things.
And obviously, that's more or less impossible.
No, but that's kind of fascinating.
Yeah.
But that's how he looks at stuff.
So like, man, like, I'm totally grateful.
Like I said, man, he's one of my best friends.
you know, like, he's taught me how to be the way that I am and to view things in the exact same way.
And I've worked with like a lot of coaches, and I mean, he's, you know, he's the most creative guy in martial arts that I've ever met.
It's interesting, and it really fits your style, I think, in your sense of capabilities, you know.
Even Sugar Sean's kind of that same way.
You guys are both such kind of malleable, capable, almost like cool to see on a video game type of fighters because you have moves that are kind of a little bit unorthodox or unique or rare.
Like when I watch your fights, I'm always like, I wonder what, if there's going to be something new that I'll see out of him that I haven't seen before.
And that's kind of interesting because you don't always think that about different fighters, you know?
That's good, man, because every time I want to look different, bro, like, I was actually really excited in the last one to show off a bunch of the wrestling and grappling stuff that I had been working because it's really cool.
Like, it's really, really cool.
Like, some of the stuff that I've, I don't know how much he wants me to say his name or whatever, but Ryan Hall.
Do you know who Ryan Hall is?
I know Kyle Hall, but I don't think they're this a different this.
I mean, obviously, it's a different guy, but out of that, they didn't know each other.
So Ryan also fights in the UFC.
He hasn't fought in a couple years, but man, some of the grappling stuff that I'm doing with him is just so cool, bro.
And like, I think it's going to be super exciting when I actually get to do it against, like, hopefully for a world title.
You know, like, I'm pumped for that.
Is it kind of disappointing sometimes?
Because you guys have all these plans.
You go into the fight and then sometimes the fight ends so quick.
You're like, fuck, dude.
Never.
We didn't even get to do that.
Never, dude.
Really?
Never.
No, no, no, no.
Any, bro.
Anytime it can go like how it went last time, dude.
Sign me up for that shit every single time, dude.
Every single time.
Yeah, I guess, because I would always be bummed like, damn, dude, we didn't get to do any of the freaking headlocks, you know?
That's how I feel like that would be.
But yeah, maybe you're right, dude.
Maybe you're right, man.
Corey Sanhagen, man, bro.
Thank you so much for coming in, dude, and for just letting somebody who doesn't know much about fighting just kind of freely talk about you guys' sport, you know, and not like, you know, it's just nice to be able to, you know, if I get things wrong or not get them right or something, to not like feel like I'm, you know, being disrespectful to what you guys do, you know, because it's hard to learn and talk about things at the same time.
But it's exciting, man.
So thank you guys.
Congrats on your success, bro.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, excited to keep watching it, dude.
Yep, cool.
Thank you.
Yeah, thanks a lot for having me on, bro.
You bet, man.
Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
I must be cornerstone.
Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found I can feel it in my bones.
But it's gonna take a little time for me to set that parking break and let myself hold you way
