Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

Dec. 23, 2020 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

01:44:32

E314 Jimmy John Liautaud

Theo sits down with Jimmy John Liautaud, the founder and former CEO of Jimmy John's, to talk about how he took a sandwich shop in a tiny, remodeled garage and turned it into a billion dollar chain. They also discuss their views on the entrepreneurial spirit of America today, and Jimmy gives advice on how everyone can find happiness and fulfillment in whatever they do. New Merch https://theovonstore.com This episode is brought to you by: Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/theo Headspace: https://headspace.com/theo BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/theo for 10% OFF your First Month Magic Mind: https://magicmind.co and use promo code THEO for 10% off Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/theo Grey Block Pizza: https://greyblockpizza.com Music: “Shine” - Bishop Gunn http://bit.ly/Shine_BishopGunn Hit the Hotline 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: http://bit.ly/TPW_VideoHotline Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiEKV_MOhwZ7OEcgFyLKilw Producer: Nick Davis https://instagram.com/realnickdavis Associate Producer: Sean Dugan https://www.instagram.com/SeanDugan/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Today's episode is brought to you by Gray Block Pizza.
	1811 Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles on the way to the beach.
	Gray Block, get that hitter.
	Today's episode is brought to you by Magic Mind as well.
	You know, flow state now comes in a bottle.
	A lot of times procrastination gets you.
	Well, change that.
	Coffee's not doing it for you.
	Change it up.
	Magicmind.co and use promo code Theo for 10% off.
	Today's guest is entrepreneur, business owner, creator, hard worker, and human.
	Mr. Jimmy John, Leah Toe.
	Shine that light on me I'll sit and tell you my stories Oh shit.
	Shine on me And I will find a song I'll be singing to Just wait.
	You got started.
	My mother's from outside of Peoria, Illinois, but you got started in Illinois.
	And so take me through a little bit of how Jimmy Johns got started.
	Oh, okay, cool.
	So I graduated in May or in June of 1982, and it was about March.
	And my dad said to me, he's like, hey, man, he said, Jimmy, what are you going to be doing after high school?
	Because you got to do something.
	You can't live at home.
	And he said, you need to start applying to college.
	You got to start figuring out what you're going to do.
	And college really wasn't an option.
	I didn't do why graduated second to last of my high school class.
	Who was last?
	Do you remember?
	Yeah, Craig Schumacher.
	Great guy.
	He was last?
	Yeah, Craig Schumacher.
	The Lovemaster?
	Craig Schumacher.
	Oh.
	Yeah, he was a classmate of mine, Craig Schumacher.
	Not the comedian.
	No, not the comedian.
	I'm thinking of a shoemaker.
	No, okay, different guy.
	But yeah, so I grew up.
	So anyway, long story short is my dad was an entrepreneur, and he said, look, you're not going to college.
	You can't live at home.
	You know, start a business.
	You got to do something.
	So I said, well, I kind of would like to open a Chicago hot dog stand.
	I love a Chicago portillo hot dog and a tamale and a French fry.
	And I said, I'd love to open a hot dog stand.
	He said, I'll tell you what.
	He says, I'll lend you $25,000.
	Dang.
	Pretty good deal.
	He says, and here's the deal.
	He said, you get $25,000.
	If it makes it, I own 48%.
	If it fails, you go to the Army for two years and you don't have to pay me back.
	He really wanted me to go to the Army.
	He fought the Korean War.
	My big brother Greg drove an armor personnel carry.
	My little brother Robbie was a ranger out in Fort Ord, California.
	So you were, you're the odd duck.
	Total odd duck.
	Total odd duck.
	All three of those guys are fighters.
	And every time I got in a fight, I just got the shit beat out of me.
	I didn't know what to do in a fight.
	Open up a concession stand.
	That's what you do, apparently.
	That's what you do.
	You open up a sandwich shop.
	So anyway, I graduate high school, and so I go to visit hot dog stands.
	In two weeks, I visited 50. I knew what I had to have on the menu.
	I knew what equipment I needed to have, and I made a list.
	I made a menu list and my equipment list.
	And it was easy.
	I went to the library and got yellow pages.
	We didn't have technology.
	We didn't have Google.
	And they had the yellow pages in the library.
	And I Googled restaurant equipment and then used restaurant equipment.
	And I found places in Chicago that had it.
	And I drove my car down to the city.
	And I found a section, which is now the West Loop, which is the hottest area in Chicago, but storefront after storefront of entrepreneur-owned little used restaurant equipment houses, right?
	So I had to list some equipment for my hot dog stand.
	And the cheapest price I got was $43,000.
	So I drive back home to Carey, Illinois, and I say, Pop.
	He's, yeah, what's up?
	I said, I need more dough.
	He said, what are you talking about?
	I said, I need $43,000 just for the equipment.
	I got a fryer, a steam table, a hood.
	I got a grill.
	I got a flat top.
	I got a milkshake machine.
	He said, hey, dude, it's $25,000.
	Damn.
	And I'm like, the bus stops here, huh?
	You're serious.
	He's, I'm serious as shit, son.
	He said, so this is like mid-June.
	And so just, it was random, but I was going to go visit a buddy at Southern Illinois University that next weekend.
	The Salukis, right, is it?
	Yeah, it is the Salukis.
	It is the Salukis.
	So I drive down there and I'm partying with my buddy.
	He says, let's go get a sandwich at Booby Sandwiches.
	I'm like, what's it?
	It's a little sandwich shop.
	It's great.
	So I go to this little sandwich shop.
	Theo, literally, it's got a refrigerator, a Coca-Cola refrigerator.
	There's vegetables in it.
	There's meats in it.
	And there's beer in it.
	And there's soda in it.
	It's like Coca-Cola gave it to him, but he was using it.
	All in the same fridge.
	All in the same fridge.
	He had a little make table, half the size of your desk, a little refrigerated make table, a meat slicer, and he was making, and it had bags of bread and a cash register.
	The guy's making sandwiches.
	So I just came from fryers and steam tables, milkshake machines, and all this shit, all this equipment.
	And here I'm like, there's a refrigerator.
	I said, I can do sandwiches.
	Wow.
	So just like that.
	So you went from, so before that it was hot dogs.
	And you just, and that moment just changed it for you?
	That moment changed my head.
	I just came from 18, 20 pieces of equipment for $45,000.
	I knew I could get a used refrigerator for $400,000.
	I knew I could get a used Makeline for $500,000.
	I knew I could get a refrigerator for $250 or a cash rich for $250.
	And I knew I could get a new used meat slicer for $600, $700.
	I just bent through every restaurant warehouse in Chicago.
	Oh, and I bet, especially in that area, you're going to have probably the best opportunity because so many restaurants in Chicago have even getting into that kind of stuff.
	Here's a video question that came in right here.
	We'll go to one early that came in for you, John, right here, actually.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	What's up?
	This is a question for both of you.
	Theo, Jimmy John.
	You guys are two very successful business owners.
	And I just want to know, what is it that motivates you the most, that gave you that drive, that gave you that edge?
	I'm looking forward to your answers.
	Either way, Merry Christmas, happy holidays to both of you.
	Gang Gang, Jimmy Jones.
	Thanks, baby.
	Gang Gang.
	And I'll tell you this, and I'll kind of add into what I was going to ask, and thank you for that, young man.
	And yeah, because I was going to ask you, so to go from, to switch from hot dogs to sandwiches, so it wasn't really about the, Was it still about the product as much, or was it about because some people are like, I'm selling hammers, that's it.
	And if you show them a screwdriver, they're not going to change to that.
	So, was it about business?
	Like, did you realize at that point, like, oh, I just want to do business, or is it just food business?
	Like, because that's kind of a pivot.
	I mean, that's a you know that was a real pivot, but it was a critical pivot.
	But my homework was done.
	And when your homework is done, the answers were obvious.
	I knew how much I could buy used equipment for.
	I knew how complicated the hot dog stand was.
	I knew how many items were going to be on the menu.
	And when I saw refrigerator, meat slicer, cash register, boom, three pieces of equipment.
	Man, I knew instantly that I could do that.
	Especially with that first, when that third one is the cash register, you're like, okay.
	I'm like, yeah, this all makes sense.
	Absolutely.
	Because that other list probably didn't have a register on it, and that's the one you need the most.
	Absolutely.
	So that's interesting.
	So then suddenly you're like, oh, this is a pared down kind of, did it feel like, okay, this is a more pared-down version of what I want to do?
	Or this is.
	No, it was another option.
	And so what I did is I just pivoted and I went and looked at other sandwich shops that were, and even at that time, Subway wasn't baking in their own stores.
	They were getting bread delivered one or two or three days a week.
	So they weren't baking.
	So I went and I and I, instead of just looking at hot dog stands around Chicago, I went to Milwaukee, went to Madison.
	I started looking at other sandwich shops.
	And I found a sandwich shop in Milwaukee that bake their own buns.
	And they bake their own bun and you bought your sandwich on this homemade bun.
	And you got a soda pop in a 16-ounce returnable bottle.
	When you gave them the bottle back, they gave you your dime deposit back.
	That was before your time.
	But the best thing about it was the bread.
	And so after visiting enough sandwich shops, I'm like, damn, I got to figure out how to bake bread.
	So I went right back to the library.
	It's now July.
	I'm right back to the library, and I got books on baking bread.
	I bake bread in my mama's kitchen and figure out how to bake bread.
	And then I figured that out.
	So that was the next step.
	So, okay, so you get to your bread.
	And what are your parents doing during this?
	Are they kind of impressed?
	I mean, they must be impressed with your desire, huh?
	You know, my parents were, I don't know that we were raised.
	I think we were basically fed.
	You know, my dad was working.
	My mom did.
	I mean, we got four kids, and we're all 13 months apart, and there's four of us, three boys and a girl.
	So we weren't really, it wasn't really, you know, we didn't have any sort of traditional raising.
	There was a lot of love in the house.
	We just didn't have a, there just, there wasn't a lot of time to nurture.
	So I was really on my own.
	The feedback was, you know, what's this guy doing?
	You know, I think they were probably shaking their heads.
	And my dad was just hoping that I would just hang it up and go to the army.
	I think that's really what he was hoping was going to happen.
	I mean, like, when I think about it right now, I think that's what he was thinking about, man.
	But were you like, so let me get a little bit more of what you were like then.
	Were you like, because you weren't a dumb, you did not well in your grades and stuff, but you weren't a dumb kid.
	No, I wasn't a dumb kid, but I couldn't read and comprehend.
	So it's called dyslexia.
	You've heard of it.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	One of my best friends has it.
	Good.
	So I just can't read and comprehend.
	So even now, married to Leslie, like if something comes in and it's a letter, somebody wrote it to us, even a Chris, Leslie reads it to me.
	I close my eyes and I listen to it and I can take it all in, but I just cannot read and comprehend.
	So I was sharp enough to do stuff.
	I was good at math, but I just, yeah, I just, I couldn't read, man.
	And I think it pissed the teachers off, too.
	And I think they got angry because I thought they probably thought that I should be able to comprehend.
	And because I wasn't, I must have been, you know.
	Oh, yeah, screwing around.
	Yeah, screwing around.
	And I wasn't.
	I just couldn't comprehend, you know?
	It's like, dance, son.
	Well, I can't dance.
	Well, then you're a shithead.
	No, I'm not.
	I just can't dance.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And then they think if you're not dancing, you're just loitering or something else.
	You're just doing something.
	Yeah, you're kind of ruining the vibe then.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So I was, but then what happened then, I think teachers got a little angry.
	They would rib me a little bit and be angry and be pissed at me.
	And I was sharp enough to be, to stick it right back to them.
	And I think that's probably what pissed the teachers off and made them angry because I could see what they were doing.
	And I didn't know why they were angry at me because there was no, but when they were ribbing me, I would give it right back to them.
	I was, you know, that's just what I did.
	Were you funny in school?
	Were you like a funny guy kind of?
	Yeah, I was funny.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I had a good time.
	That's cool.
	For sure.
	For sure.
	Were you goofy funny or were you word funny, like saying stuff that was funny?
	Or were you like, were you like truffle-shuffle-funny kind of guy or like just say stuff?
	No, I don't know.
	I think I was, I don't know what any of those things mean, really.
	I don't know what truffle, shuffle is.
	Were you like a goof?
	Were you like, you would get up and do something physical or were you just you would the way you could.
	More verbal.
	Verbally funny.
	Like I could respond to shit quick.
	I could say it quick.
	Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, I could have a good time with stuff.
	And school's a fun environment, dude, because you basically have kind of an audience every day if the curriculum doesn't really engage you that much.
	Yeah.
	Which sometimes dyslexia to me is just that it's kind of like the world of curriculum, it's not as engaging for some people.
	And so your brain just doesn't leech onto it.
	So it's almost like dyslexia.
	Sometimes it can be like a blessing.
	It's like, oh, what am I missing learning all this shit that I don't really care about, you know?
	Yeah.
	So anyway, so we're at the bread.
	So you got the bread recipe, which being from Louisiana, man, I respect that more than anything, dude.
	Like a po-boy sandwich, people are always like, what makes a I'm like, you have to have good bread.
	Like, I don't care.
	Other cities, you have one in Salt Lake City, this dog shit.
	I want, you have to have good bread.
	You got to have good bread.
	New Orleans has great bread, great po-boys down there.
	So got to have the great bread.
	So I figured that out.
	So you got the great bread.
	Got the great bread.
	Now, was there a day where you knew it?
	Because like I've read Michael Lindell's book.
	You ever read his book?
	No.
	He wrote the, he's the My Pillow Guy, right?
	And he has a moment where he finally gets the fluffing right in the pillow and he just can't, I mean, he loses.
	He just, it's a great moment.
	Right.
	Did you have that moment where you're like, this is the bread?
	I had a moment and I got a great story about the moment.
	So I got the moment.
	I got the bread.
	I'm baking the bread.
	The bread's good.
	I'm going back and forth to the grocery store.
	And I lived in Carrie and Dominic's grocery stores in Crystal Lake.
	And I'm going back and forth buying meats and coming home and making sandwiches on the bread.
	And I'm walking past a freezer section one day and I see this frozen bread dough in the freezer section.
	It had like four like one pound loaves of bread this big in a freezer bag.
	It was rich's frozen bread dough.
	And I grabbed a bag and I threw it in the cart.
	So remember, I had all My meats, and then I had this frozen dough.
	I take the dough home to the house.
	I thaw one of these loaves out, and I cut it in quarters and stretch it out and bake it off into a loaf.
	And I bake the bread.
	It's way better than the bread that I came up with.
	And I looked at the bread bag, it said Rich's Frozen Products.
	I think it was Poughkeepsie, New York.
	And at the time, the entire New York theory code was 212.
	So I dialed 212-555-1212.
	And I said, can I have the number of Rich's Frozen Products Poughkeepsie, New York?
	And directory assistant says, sure, one moment, please, and gives me the number.
	So I call Rich's Frozen Products and I said, hello, may I speak to Mr. Rich?
	The lady says, one moment, please.
	No way.
	I swear to God.
	The guy gets on the phone and says, hello, this is Bob Rich.
	I said, hello, Mr. Rich.
	He says, yes, ma'am.
	My voice was, you know, it's pretty squeaky now, but it was squeakier then.
	Yes, ma'am.
	What can I do for you?
	I just went with it.
	I said, listen, I said, I'm opening a sandwich shop in Illinois.
	And I said, and I just tried your bread dough.
	And it's way better than the bread dough I made.
	Can you supply me my bread dough?
	He says, you're opening a sandwich shop in Illinois?
	He says, give me your phone number.
	Let me call you back.
	So I hang up the phone and he calls me back in five minutes.
	He says, you know where Schaumburg, Illinois is?
	I said, yeah, I live in Cary, Illinois.
	He says, well, my friend Lou Gannella is building an addition on his frozen dough factory right by you.
	And you go see him.
	Can you be there tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock?
	And he'll go set, you go see him at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
	I said, really?
	He said, absolutely.
	Here's the address.
	Here's the phone number.
	You go tomorrow morning.
	You go see my friend Lou Gannella.
	And how old are you?
	I'm 18 years old.
	18 years old.
	Dude, so I had a Chevy citation, man.
	The hatchback?
	The car was called a citation?
	It was a Chevy citation, man.
	It was awesome.
	Front wheel.
	That's a ticket.
	That's a parking ticket.
	I could spin it backwards.
	You know, I could do 360 donuts.
	It was killer.
	So I go to this factory.
	It's a construction site.
	I walk in the front door, and there's a woman there, a receptionist, and there's two yellow hats there.
	And one says Jimmy John on it, construction hats.
	And one says Lou.
	So I go in there and I go in there.
	Excuse me, Ron.
	His name was Ron.
	And he was Lou's nephew or something like that, but Lou owned it.
	His name was Ron Lucchese.
	It was Ron and Jimmy.
	So one minute, Ron comes out.
	He says, son, put that hat on.
	Come on with me.
	I go into this kitchen and here they got like 20 different breads all lined out fresh out of the oven.
	He says, come on, let's play with some bread.
	Let's eat some bread and see what you like.
	And we'll make some bread dough.
	And they had mixers over here in about six hours between he and I. And I said, I like this one pretty good.
	He's like, well, then we'll make that bread dough for you.
	I'm sure there's no way in a million years did he ever, ever think that it would be what it was.
	Sure enough, I called him three months later.
	I said, I got my location.
	I'm going to do it at Eastern Illinois University.
	And son of a gun, if I didn't end up loyal to that family and that company, and we are now their largest customer.
	And I think there's over 100 Ganela family members that are owners of this company.
	And I think we are their largest customer now.
	So it was an incredible experience.
	And it was so random that I called that phone number.
	And the dude was, there was a Bob Rich, and he picked up the phone.
	I mean, what if he was at lunch?
	Yeah.
	And just the, I mean, that just makes me think about like when you do something hands-on for somebody, a lot of things in life, it takes somebody doing something hands-on for you to really believe that you can do it.
	For sure.
	So I can't even imagine you walking in at that age, at that moment, where you're already kind of a little bit excited.
	You're like, here's adults.
	They're talking to me.
	They know about bread.
	What's even going on?
	I drive over.
	The hat's there with your name on it.
	Like they went that extra step.
	And I wonder if they couldn't be thinking this guy's a big sandwich entrepreneur.
	Dude, I was 18 years old.
	I didn't even have hair under my arms yet, man.
	I was late bloomer.
	He called me ma'am.
	I mean, no clue.
	I'm sure.
	So you didn't know if you were going to get hair under your arms if they're calling you ma'am.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	I'm sure he's out.
	That's right.
	And, you know, and my dad was thinking the same thing.
	But when I had this bread dough and then I started making sandwiches on that bread dough, man, I knew.
	And I had, I came up with six.
	It's now August.
	Came up with six sandwiches, invited my family over.
	They voted on four.
	And it was August.
	And anyway.
	It's so kind, though, just the kindness that I feel like they showed by just saying, okay, here's just somebody who's young and curious, and I'm going to extend some time to them, you know?
	Absolutely.
	I got to tell you, a magical moment.
	I met a grandson of Mr. Rich, who has now passed away.
	And I spend the majority of the year in Key Largo, Florida.
	And I was in Key Largo, Florida, and I met a grandson of Mr. Rich.
	And I told him the story of his grandfather.
	The family also has a home down in that area.
	And he was blown away.
	He was blown away.
	It brought me so, it warmed my heart to share how that man literally, without that phone call in that moment, I wouldn't have pivoted there, which would become the foundation of the Jimmy Johns brand for 36 years before I sold it.
	So it was an amazing moment.
	And I got lucky.
	I got lucky.
	But it was in the bullseye, and I hit it.
	And so you got the bread now.
	It's really interesting to hear starting, especially like a sandwich shop, starting any business in a college town, I feel like it's such a strong move because if you can get a market that's excited, that's young, and it's something that's hip, then you know already other towns it's going to work in that exact type of place, you know?
	Yeah, that's exactly right.
	Yeah, when you look back at that moment in your life, kind of at that young moment, so some of the cards were kind of laid out for you.
	It was like you weren't really, college probably wasn't going to be your thing.
	Right.
	Your dad kind of gave you this amount that didn't really work out with, you know, with the, with the list that you made.
	When you fingers a go to the army.
	Yeah.
	He's looking for you.
	He's like, geez, put the oven down and pick up a fucking gun, you know?
	But what was, when you look back at that moment in your life, was it just some natural gifts that got, do you just think it was just some innate things?
	Like, what are some things that...
	I really believe my dad.
	I mean, my dad was a badass.
	He was a tough, tough, tough man.
	He was tough.
	And I knew that I was out of there, and I knew I had to figure it out.
	So I really didn't spend much time about anything except I wanted to get a location.
	I wanted to go to Eastern Illinois University.
	The reason I chose Eastern, my brother was coming out of the Army in November.
	He was going.
	And I had two cousins that were there, Mike and Steve.
	So I said, I'll go to Eastern.
	I'm going to have family there.
	I'll open up the sandwich shop.
	I'll prove to the school that I'm worth a shit, and I'll get the sandwich shop going, and then I'll go to college and get a degree and sell it and go get a real job.
	Wow, interesting.
	So that was my plan.
	And did you have a lady in your life at this time?
	What was the love life like at this point?
	I didn't know what love was.
	Really?
	No, I didn't have a lady in my life at all.
	Not at all.
	So not much ladyluck in the high school time?
	No, not at all.
	Okay, so you get over to Eastern Illinois.
	You got the first sandwich shop, beautiful locale.
	Is it still there today?
	It's right across the street.
	It's a tattoo shop now, the original.
	It was only 630 square feet.
	It was a two-car garage.
	It was a house that was converted into a Dixie Cream donut shop, had a two-car garage attached to it that was a failed pizza joint.
	I rented that garage for $200 a month.
	And there was a bar behind me.
	There was a bar to the left of me and a bar in front of me.
	So I put my sandwich shop right in that garage.
	So when the bars closed, they came to Jimmy John's.
	So I chose that site.
	The rent was $200 a month.
	And I, anyway, August, when I went, I was going to do it.
	You know, you said, like, what was your family saying?
	I got the bread.
	I figured it out.
	I had my sandwiches.
	I drive down to Eastern Illinois and I came back with two leases, the garage and I rented an apartment.
	And I said, pops, I got to fund the account.
	I'm doing this.
	And I still really didn't have much feedback from him at all.
	And then he funded the account and he gave me a checkbook and said, you pay for everything COD.
	So you live in reality.
	You start with $25,000.
	So I did.
	So I bought my equipment.
	I bought a used refrigerator.
	I bought a used meat slicer.
	I bought a Sears chest freezer to hold my bread dough.
	My mom gave me her oven mitts, her rubber-made cake spatula.
	And she gave me her Tupperware to keep my tomatoes and lettuce sweet.
	And yeah, man.
	And I opened up in this little tiny two-car garage at Eastern Olympic.
	At 19 years old?
	I opened up my 19th birthday January, a day after I turned 19, January 13, 1983.
	I opened up my first store.
	So you knew, so the $25,000 does come into play.
	So that money, at this point, he's funding the account.
	So you have some money to help you go.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, I had to remodel it.
	I had to build a counter.
	I had to put paneling up.
	I had to plumb my sink and get my bathroom done.
	So I did.
	And then I did.
	I spent $23,871.
	I needed $1,000 for inventory, and I remember the numbers.
	And so anyway, yeah, I opened up January 13, 83, and I had a $1,300 balance to start with, and started out, man.
	That was it.
	Damn, dude.
	And how many Gary Vee Varnerchuk videos did you watch to help start all this?
	None, I bet.
	I don't even know who that is.
	It's this guy, Gary Vee.
	It's like they sell this entrepreneurial spirit to a lot of people online a lot of times.
	Okay.
	It's not bad or anything.
	It's just like, it's kind of the same thing.
	It's just like get entrepreneurial, you know, like, get entrepreneurial, you know?
	Shit.
	I wish, I wish it was like it.
	You know, one of the kids asked, he said, you know, what is it?
	What is it that drives an entrepreneur?
	What is it?
	I think it's fear.
	I think it's fear of failure.
	I think this was all driven by fear.
	You know, that's really what drove it all.
	That's what, you know, fear of the army, fear of the army, fear of moving out.
	I had to keep the ball rolling.
	I had to get funded.
	I think really the fear of failure is what really motivates, is the original motivator.
	You know, I just didn't want to fail, right?
	And I failed my whole life.
	So I think that was a real motivator.
	Because what the hell else was I going to do?
	And I didn't want to go to the army.
	I mean, there's no way I was going to get the shit beat out of me in the army.
	Yeah, I mean, it probably would have been, yeah, it probably wouldn't have been stoked, especially if you don't want to go.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's if you don't want to be in the army.
	You don't want to be the guy in the army who doesn't want to be in the army.
	I think that's kind of the bad, the tough vibe.
	You know, you need stress relief that goes beyond some quick fixes.
	And a quick fix is something that just fixes you, but it's, is it good?
	Is it bad?
	Who knows?
	It was probably made in China.
	So you need something more realistic, and that is headspace.
	You know, there's so many things that is trying to get our attention these days on our phones and in the world and stoplights and go lights that we don't have any space in our head.
	Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app.
	You need some help falling asleep?
	Headspace has wind-down sessions their members swear by.
	That's right.
	You're settling down.
	The kids are in bed.
	They're on some headspace.
	Relax.
	You can even tell your husband or wife, hey, I'd love to chat, but I need the Headspace.
	Headspace is backed by 25 published studies on its benefits.
	600,000 five-star reviews and over 60 million downloads.
	You deserve to feel happier and Headspace is meditation made simple.
	Go to headspace.com slash Theo.
	That's Headspace.com slash T-H-E-O for a free one-month trial with access to Headspace's full library of meditations for every situation.
	This is the best deal offered right now.
	The best one right now.
	Head to headspace.com slash T-H-E-O.
	I use Headspace and I thoroughly enjoy it.
	The holidays are upon us, but the season goes after Christmas.
	It's not just one day.
	But the best deal in wireless can only be found at Mint Mobile.
	Right now, when you switch to Mint Mobile and you buy any three-month plan, you get another three months for free.
	That's a six-month of plan.
	Mint Mobile lets you safely order from home and maximize your savings with plans starting at just $15 a month.
	That's right, just $15 a month.
	Mint Mobile, their best offer of the year is here for a limited time.
	Buy any three-month plan, get the extra three months.
	Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan so you don't have to change phone.
	You don't have to change number.
	Keep your same number with all your contacts.
	If you're not 100% satisfied, Mint Mobile has you covered with their seven-day money-back guarantee.
	For a limited time, buy a three-month Mint Mobile plan and get three more months free by going to mintmobile.com slash T-H-E-O.
	That's M-I-N-T-M-O-B-I-L-E dot com slash Theo.
	Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash Theo.
	Here's a question right here from some young gentleman right here that we got.
	What's up, Theo?
	What's up, Jimmy John?
	This is Mark coming at you from New Jersey.
	As you can See, my face kind of busted up right now.
	Got some of that Caucasian abrasion from slipping on some black ice earlier.
	My question is for Mr. Jimmy: What's it like running a company with your name on it?
	Does it put extra pressure on you?
	And does it ever make it difficult for you to separate your personal life from your business?
	Gang, gang.
	Gang, man.
	That's a good question, man.
	That's a really good question.
	So Jimmy John is a character, right?
	And I'm really Jimmy Leoto.
	And I know Papa John really, really well.
	Papa John loves being Papa John.
	He really does.
	That's his sweet spot, and he just really loves it.
	But I'm done with Jimmy John's.
	I sold it.
	I'm Jimmy Leoto.
	It was a 36-year career.
	It was extraordinary.
	I don't know if you've ever been divorced before.
	I have.
	My new wife is the love of my life.
	My ex-wife, God bless her.
	She's remarried and she's doing terrific.
	But I like my, you know, I really like my life.
	So I like, I'm really Jimmy.
	For me, it was a character.
	It's easy for me to separate, but I think it's different for different people.
	So that was a really, really good question.
	For me, it's not hard.
	But so some guys like being the character.
	Yeah.
	When did the character start to become like, yeah, when do you start to become the character?
	Like, when does that happen throughout this journey?
	You know what?
	It started to happen.
	I think that, you know, wow, you're Jimmy John.
	Wow, you're Jimmy John.
	Like, since it wasn't top of mind for me, you know, I was like this dude working my ass off all the time.
	You know, yeah.
	And then I would forget that I'm Jimmy John because I'm working my ass off all the time.
	I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, that's right.
	I'm totally Jimmy John.
	Yeah.
	How is it?
	Oh, it's awesome.
	We get up at five in the morning and we work till three in the morning, seven days a week, and we clean puke out of toilets and we reinstall the urinals on the wall when the dudes tear them off the wall.
	It's great.
	It's awesome being me.
	Come on and be me for a while.
	It's the best.
	So I was always taken aback by it because I really, it was never top of mind for me.
	I never like, you know, I never sort of, you know, we were, we were, we, we, we, I spent 10 years in 10 different cities and and opened 10 stores.
	And that was my first 10 years.
	Wow.
	And I didn't know how to do a bank loan or get a bank loan, so I'd save up my money and replace myself at the sandwich shop and then, and then move to another city and open up another store.
	And then in order to have the experience be like it was when I was there, I learned way back at an early age to cut my manager in on a piece of the action.
	Right.
	So then they have some vested interest.
	So then they got invested interest.
	So so, you know, I just, I never, you know, so like when did I start being Jimmy John?
	I would say probably 2000.
	We started growing 2005.
	We had 200 stores.
	2010, we had 500 stores.
	And then when it got to be really big, you know, yeah, I'm Jimmy John, but, you know, it's not that sexy, dude.
	I mean, we got refrigerators and meat slicers and salamis.
	I mean, if you're impressed by that, that's fine, but it's nothing but a grind.
	Right.
	Yeah, at that point, but at that point, probably you start to make your way out of the actual store that you're in.
	And I'm sure you get into more of the corporate side of stuff.
	But I want to go.
	So when you make the, so you guys are, things are going well.
	Things are going well.
	You're right there, positioned by the bars.
	Yeah.
	And you decide to do a second shop.
	Yeah.
	So does it feel like, like, was that a risky move?
	Are you just, were you trusting your instincts at that point?
	Were you trusting the numbers?
	Like, where did the, where does it come from to take that move?
	So here's what happened, Theo.
	Just simple.
	So I open up in January with two of my buddies and me.
	So there's three of us.
	January, February was great.
	Then one guy quit.
	So you have seven day shifts and seven night shifts, essentially.
	So then one dude quit.
	So I took seven days.
	The other dude took seven nights.
	Jeez, this is like the Bible.
	Then March came and the night dude quit.
	And I get a call at like 4.30 in the afternoon.
	I'm in the sub shop and the dude says, hey, man, listen, I quit.
	I said, you quit?
	He said, I said, why you quit?
	He says, because you're an asshole.
	Wow.
	And I said, okay, so what time are you going to be in?
	He says, no, no, I'm out of here.
	And the customers came in and the phone rang and one thing led to another.
	It's 2 in the morning.
	So I got up and so I closed the store at 2 in the morning after, and then opened it up again at 8. And this is like April of 83. So I'm working this thing open to close, 8 in the morning.
	I didn't even know you could work from 8 in the morning until 2 in the morning.
	If you ask the National Labor Relations Board, they'll tell you, no, no way.
	You got to sue somebody for that, right?
	OSA would have some issues.
	That's right.
	But the first week I did it, it was really hard and I was freaking out.
	But the second week, man, I'm like, whoa, I can do this.
	And by the third week, Theo, I am starting to know my customers, who they are, what they like.
	If they're chubbier like me, I gave them a little extra mayo.
	If they were skinny like you, I took a little off.
	I used to use the ends of the meats that weren't so pretty, but they were still salami and ham.
	I'd sell those after one o'clock in the morning because nobody knew what they were eating anyway.
	So I figured out how to utilize the waste.
	And I really started getting into running the sandwich shop after everybody quit.
	I survived.
	I just made it happen.
	Then I learned I could work open to close.
	And then I started keeping, remember my dad said, keep your bank balance every day, pay for everything COD.
	And I'm watching this bank balance go up and I'm watching it go up every day.
	And I finished the semester in May and I started the semester with $1,300 and I had $18,000 in the bank.
	And I'm like, man, I'm a millionaire.
	And so I totally started paying attention to this checkbook.
	And so the end of the first year, I did $156,000 in sales and made $40,000 profit.
	I split it with my dad.
	Okay.
	$4,852.
	And then the second year, I did $180,000 and made $55,000.
	I split it with my dad.
	And I saved all my cash.
	I got paid $200 a week.
	That's what my pay was.
	And I saved all the money, less the tax.
	So I bought my dad out in May of 1985 for the 25 grand plus 10% interest.
	So I had exactly 30,000 bucks.
	And I took it out of the bank in cash to go pay him off and own it.
	He's like, dude, compound interest.
	I'm like, what's compound interest?
	He's like, dude, you owe me another $1,300.
	Give me a break.
	So he got the $20,000 the first year, $25,000 year two, the original investment back.
	Then I owned it myself.
	Then I worked another year and then I replaced myself.
	I moved to Macomb, Illinois, Western Illinois University, opened my second store, 86. I moved to University of Illinois.
	My third store, 87. I moved to Michigan State, Lansing, Michigan.
	And so that's what I did.
	Okay, so at that point, then you're on the go.
	I'm on the go.
	You're on the go.
	And go back to the question where the guy calls and says, you're an asshole.
	Were you an asshole?
	I'm an asshole.
	Sometimes I started out as just being like fun and everything was fun.
	And then once you get into business, man, the adjustment sometimes is really tough.
	And I have to think with another side of my brain, and I have to be a business person sometimes.
	And it goes totally against whatever the fun side of things.
	Were you an asshole?
	What made the guy say?
	Here's what I learned.
	Here was the deal.
	No, because I'm just not an asshole as an individual.
	I love people and I love life.
	But I didn't know what a boss had to do.
	I took the easiest shifts for myself.
	I took the easiest jobs for myself.
	I sliced the easiest meats myself.
	I cleaned the easiest toilets myself and gave everybody else all the tough shit to do.
	And then what I learned is that the boss takes the toughest shifts, the hardest jobs, sets his people up to succeed.
	When they fail, it's the boss's fault.
	Typically, it's not the individual's fault because people really want to do a good job.
	All they need to know is why.
	And if you catch them doing it right, and the more often you catch people doing things right and say, man, I really appreciate the time you took to clean that bathroom that way.
	There was not one hair left anywhere in that bathroom.
	You took the time to do it.
	You're a rock star.
	And if you are, as a boss, take the time to thank somebody for that effort, they will say, thank you, sir.
	And they will do it again.
	And I had to learn that.
	My guys quit because I just didn't know how to be a boss.
	Then I learned how to be a boss, man.
	And then I read a couple of books on one-minute manager and leadership and the one-minute manager.
	And I learned that I had to lead by example, that people do what I do, not what I say.
	And so again, it was out of fear or survival.
	I mean, I had to do it and I learned to do it.
	And then once I realized I could do it, I'm like, man, I can do this.
	I mean, I'd never been successful with anything in my life.
	And I was killing it.
	So it was cool, man.
	Now, were you like when you have the success?
	So outside of working, which I don't know how there's any time, what was your social life like?
	Like, did you start dating in college?
	I mean, there's more women in college.
	Did you get a girlfriend?
	Did you, you know, like what were you doing kind of for fun during that time?
	SIU is a freaking fun town, bro.
	Yeah, Charleston is a fun town.
	But I was working, you know, at first I was having a lot of fun.
	And then I was working.
	And then I was really in the restaurant 24-7, 365.
	You know, that's how we made 40 grand on $150,000 of sales.
	Well, when your labor is 8% and I'm getting paid 82 cents an hour, it's really easy to make that, to have that.
	So I was really in the store.
	But yeah, I dated a little bit and I had a couple of girlfriends and I had a bit of a social life, but nothing where I could really, I always, anytime the sandwich shop called, anytime they needed anything, I was there.
	I was there because I had worked so hard to get it where I got it that I, you know, I had a kind of a social life, but not a college social life.
	But it was fine.
	It was great.
	You know, it was whatever.
	It was fine.
	What about like your first kiss?
	Let's just go, we ask everybody this.
	Oh, my God.
	Do you remember mine?
	I think, and mine is a question, so I'll put mine out there too.
	Mine, this girl, I lost my Virginia behind a bowling alley.
	Everybody knows that, but my first one was this girl.
	She had kind of like a chipped tooth a little bit named Chrissy.
	And she had, her mom used to cut her hair like one of the singers from Leonard Skinner.
	Like she would literally put a picture up of, I don't even know who it was.
	Maybe I don't even know who.
	And then she would have her sit next to it and cut her hair just like it.
	So she literally had her hair looking just like one of them.
	And some people just kind of, we were the same age in the neighborhood.
	We were both kind of shy.
	And they locked us in a room together one time and we had to kiss, you know, and so we did, you know.
	But my first girlfriend was Peggy.
	I remember my first girlfriend was Peggy.
	I forget her last name, but I remember that really, really good.
	From college?
	Yeah.
	Cool chick or no?
	Yeah, at the time it was, it was what it was.
	You know, for me, it was awkward, but it was what it was.
	Where did you guys meet at?
	Do you remember?
	Yeah, we met at the bars.
	Oh, yeah?
	Yeah.
	What were good bars that were because they used to have a comedy club?
	Did they have a comedy club there?
	We had Rocks, we had Mothers, we had Ike's, and we had Chinks, where we'd go there and do these slammer shots where you'd get half whiskey, half seven up, and they'd slam it, and you'd go to Chinks and hit one of those.
	And God, Marty's, Marty's, we had Marty's.
	The comedy club in Charleston, I don't, God, I don't remember a comedy club in Charleston.
	I mean, I really, socializing wasn't a huge top of mind for me.
	Right.
	It's just interesting to be that young and to be that, like, even when I think of college now, or if I think of just meeting someone now who's 21, 22 years old, and they're that focused on business, and maybe it's just because of the times now.
	That would seem very obtuse.
	It would seem very unique.
	Sure.
	Was it that unique at the time, or did a lot of young men that were just out of high school when they started small businesses?
	Dude, I don't think that I was thinking about it the way you were thinking about it, man.
	I was surviving.
	Right.
	Buddy.
	I was surviving.
	I was paying my rent.
	I was getting the money to the bank.
	I was getting the sandwiches delivered.
	I was figuring out how to deliver, figuring out how to buy an ad, how to make an advertisement, how to maximize my dollars in the advertising spend.
	I'd save up my money.
	And, you know, I said, well, if I'm going to put an ad in the newspaper, I need to have a headline.
	And if I have a headline, it'll grab their attention.
	And so I would make up these poems.
	And so I would have a headline.
	Remember, I wrote when the headline was party.
	It said, you plan it, you love it.
	You can't wait till it starts.
	It's dance and romance, and then time to depart.
	But alas, you just met a cutie that says your beauty.
	If that is your fate, it's never too late to impress that new love with a Jimmy John sub.
	Jimmy John's, we deliver.
	So it would say party, all that fill in the middle, and then Jimmy John's, we deliver.
	And then, and then, and then I, you know.
	And you just made these up?
	Yeah.
	And when I did, I did, I did no green, no zits, no pits, no Dale bread, no grease, no fries, great subs instead.
	And I put these ads in the paper, but I had to think about this shit.
	Right.
	And I, and I, and I wanted it to be somewhat adorable or somewhat like it was worth it if you were going to read it.
	You could just smile.
	And they all looked the same.
	So I had to figure out how, because I had to save up my money and buy an ad.
	So I was surviving.
	I wasn't really sort of like in a scene, man.
	I was like surviving and figuring out how to survive.
	Yeah, the ads, it's very charming.
	It's charming.
	The ads are very charming.
	You're a very charming guy.
	Have you always had that?
	Has it always been a gift?
	I think there's something that's nice, especially when you're in high school, to be able to laugh, But also engage with the teachers.
	There's a level of intelligence that's behind it, but there's a level of charm that makes it more palpable for everyone a lot of times.
	Have you always thought that that's a gift that you had being charming?
	Dude, I don't know that I really ever thought I was gifted.
	I mean, I was a fat kid and I was raised in a crazy household.
	We went through two bankruptcies.
	My dad was, you know, we ran out of milk, dude.
	We drank powdered milk.
	And I mean, we had love and we made it.
	And my dad ended up being a successful guy.
	But my childhood, like, I didn't have a foundation.
	I never really thought about, you know, that I was a charming anything.
	I just was.
	You know, I really never really, it was never in my head.
	I just was doing what I was doing.
	So I wasn't thinking about it.
	Right.
	You weren't thinking about it, but some of you had survival instincts that were helping you.
	Hell yes.
	Was one of them, do you think, just being a charming guy?
	Well, dude, if it helped me out, you know, I mean, I can talk to people.
	If it helped me out, I'll take it, right?
	I can cook, I can add and subtract, and I can smile, and I can tell it like it is.
	I don't care.
	Yeah.
	Now, what about the like the striving to be good in business?
	Do you feel like you were trying to like impress your dad?
	Do you think in the end?
	For sure.
	Yeah.
	For sure.
	I wanted my dad's approval more than anything in the world.
	Are you kidding me when I think about that, man?
	Oh, are you kidding me to have your dad approve you?
	Oh, man.
	You know, there's nothing like it.
	And, you know, my dad was hard.
	He was a really tough, tough, tough, tough guy.
	Why is that, man?
	I mean, yeah, even me just thinking about it, man, it kind of makes me a little bit emotional.
	But like, yeah, like, there's times where you do well in your life and you think, man, is your dad still alive?
	No, he passed 16, 2016.
	Yeah, and it's like, man, you're like, man, my dad would be proud, you know?
	There's something, there's some innate thing.
	And for me, I start to feel it in the back of my soul.
	Is your dad still alive?
	No, my dad was 70 when I was born.
	He was an old man.
	But so he passed away in 96. Gotcha.
	But yeah, there's sometimes a moment where it's like, man, there's still this weird connective tissue almost where I feel like if I make him proud that he can feel it, even though he's not here, which is really, I think that's what makes it the feeling so unique.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it's a deep feeling.
	And it's deep-seated, especially if you had a connection with your father.
	Yeah.
	And I had an amazing connection with him.
	And he was a great man.
	Do you think he was proud of you?
	I think inside he was.
	I think inside he was.
	I think to other people, he was very proud of me, but to me, he was hard on me.
	And it just was the way it was.
	It just was the way it was.
	And my dad was old-fashioned, and he was very macho, and he was very gregarious and outgoing.
	And he probably thought a lot of those things that you asked me.
	He was charming, and he was witty, but he believed, with me, I'm just like, okay.
	But my father totally believed he was.
	He walked into the room.
	He's like, yo, I'm in the room.
	And I walk in the room.
	I'm like, hey, man, nice to see you, Theo.
	You know, whatever.
	Just a little bit different.
	What are some fun things that did your family throw like a party every year?
	Was it like a thing that your dad like, what was?
	Fourth of July.
	We have a camp in northern Wisconsin.
	Yeah, you told me Bishop Gunn performed there.
	Yeah, Bishop Gunn played two years in a row there.
	And what a band is Bishop Gunn.
	Oh, my God.
	You guys get your asses back together, man.
	Work it out.
	Get it together, Travis.
	They're so good, man.
	Unbelievable.
	Dude, they're so good.
	So, yeah, but we would do a 4th of July, and my dad was in charge of the fireworks.
	And man, I remember the first year my dad in charge of the fireworks.
	He got a couple of styrofoam surfboards, and he put all like the, what are those balls that go up in the air?
	Where they shoot the balls up, they go, and it shoots a ball up.
	Oh, and it's up like 10 of them.
	Yeah, it's not a bottle rocket.
	It's not that.
	Well, he had bottle rockets and these other things where you could hold them.
	You put the ball in there?
	Yes.
	And the ball would go up.
	And then it would blow up.
	And he wired all this stuff together.
	And I remember the first year he did it, he had these two surfboards and he lit them both.
	And he spent like two days before taping the wicks together and making doing that.
	My dad was an engineer, just doing all this shit.
	And he lit them both and pushed them, both of them just blew up.
	And then it was a total dodge show.
	And then he figured out those cannons and then they would get those tubes, you know, with the three-inch mortars, and they figured out where to go get them.
	I'm sure they were buying them illegally in Indiana or wherever.
	I don't know why I'm saying Indiana, but I remember something about Indiana.
	A lot of illegal shit in Indiana, bro.
	And we'll say that.
	It's okay to say that.
	All right.
	That's cool.
	So anyway, but that was my dad's deal.
	The 4th of July party was great.
	And I remember my dad would take us to his company Christmas party, and it was the only thing fancy.
	You know, it would be fancy, and we'd go to a company Christmas party.
	It sounds like in hindsight, like, it sounds like maybe when you were young, and I'm not trying to get in your life or anything here.
	I'm definitely fascinated.
	I'm curious about stuff like familiar relationships and how that kind of plays into how we behave and stuff.
	Because I wondered a lot about it in my own life, and I still figured that out a lot.
	I feel like I had a lot of childhood trauma, so I'm still kind of figuring that out sometimes.
	But it sounds like you were almost most like your father in a lot of ways, even though when you were a kid, it seemed like your brothers probably were.
	You know, I think that my brain was a lot like my father, but my father had a natural confidence that he just, you know, we were just talking about Bobby Kidrock.
	You know, Bobby walks into a room and he just owns it, right?
	And my father was very much like that.
	That bravado kind of just bravado and just owned it, you know, and he and I just don't have whatever I have, I've earned and I've earned and I pay and I and it just doesn't come naturally.
	You know what I mean?
	I've earned it.
	I work on it.
	Because there's a lot of insecurities being a fat kid, being a poor kid, or going through what we went through.
	There's a lot that comes with it.
	And I think it comes with you forever.
	And then I think that I fought the business so much.
	And the business went from being the little sandwich maker guy into this giant behemoth $3 billion company.
	And so I went from making people smile and here's your sandwich and thank you, sir.
	Can I sell you some chips?
	To the evolution was that at the end, it was all I can remember is litigation.
	It was just one lawsuit after another, right?
	You're freaky fast.
	You must speed.
	No, Mr. We don't speed.
	Well, but you say freaky fast.
	I know, but we only deliver.
	It's a five-minute drive time during peak traffic and our computer system won't take an order out of our delivery area.
	We don't speed.
	We design the delivery system that way.
	Well, but you, but people speed.
	And, you know, it was so hard to convince because we got sued often for crashes and shit.
	Oh, really?
	Absolutely.
	Well, you're freaky fast.
	But then the people, we were freaky fast, not because we were freaky fast, because I made the delivery areas small.
	And I made the delivery areas small so we could be really, have really good service.
	And I wanted to be the really good service guy instead of the great sandwich guy.
	And so I focused more on the service than I did the speed.
	But at the end, it just changed a lot.
	And that's why I just, you know, I just, it was uncle.
	It was time for me to be out of it.
	But it changed a lot.
	You know, it was really romantic at the beginning.
	There were long nights, but problems I could solve.
	And then it got to problems that I couldn't solve.
	And it just became a behemoth.
	It was a big, big company when I sold it.
	And we're vertically integrated, right?
	We supplied all the food to all the stores.
	Oh, wow.
	So kind of like that Ray Kroc model kind of.
	Kind of, yeah, yeah.
	I think, didn't they?
	Yeah, they ended up supplying.
	Supplying all the stores.
	A lot, yeah, supplying all their own stores.
	The majority of the products we supplied.
	Now, at what point did you start to study other business?
	You know, was there a point where that were you like, where you started to become, okay, I'm not a sandwich maker.
	I am a businessman.
	Like, does that kind of start to happen at some point?
	Yeah, for sure.
	No, the first time is I'm learning how to make sandwiches.
	Then I learned how to be a boss.
	Then I learned how to do math.
	Then I learned how to be an accountant.
	Then I realized, you know, I got to sell these things.
	Then I figured out how to deliver.
	And then I figured out, you know, how to print a menu.
	And then I figured out, then I had to write a menu.
	And then I had to get the menus printed.
	And then I said, you know what?
	I'm going to take these menus.
	I'm going to print them on a sticky card and people can tear them off and stick them on their dorm desk.
	And so I had my menus.
	They were sticky menus and they were all over the campuses.
	And people love stickers.
	So I made my menus into stickers and I saw my stuff all over the place, right?
	I mean, I had dorm rooms decorated with my Jimmy John's menus.
	I figured out how to do that.
	Then I figured out, you know, how to do an ad and I placed an ad and it didn't work.
	And then I started doing these big headlines.
	So I figured out how to place an ad, and then I figured out how to buy an ad.
	So then I went through that.
	Then I went, then I had to find real estate.
	Then I had to figure out what is good real estate and what works and what doesn't work.
	And then I had to figure out what a lease is.
	And you figure out what a good lease is by getting burned on a couple of bad leases.
	Then you figure out what a good lease is.
	And then you get good locations, then you get good leases.
	And then you got a, and then from there, you know, then I had to figure out franchising.
	I had 10 stores over 10 years, and I wrote the opening and closing procedures, and I did that during those 10 years.
	So all of those 10 stores could be operated the same way, and my customers had the same experience.
	Whether I was there or not, I compensated my manager with a piece of the action.
	So that we were all copacetic, all symbiotic.
	Everybody's happy.
	So you had to figure all that out.
	And then as that grew, when I started franchising Theo in 93, I joined this organization called Young Presidents Organization.
	And they said, as a founder, you got to give up your power or give up and put a professional in to run your company because you're an entrepreneur.
	So I took that advice and I hired some professionals from a large restaurant company to run my franchise company.
	And Dumb Me stayed running the company stores.
	So in 93, I hired two execs and we started franchising the Jimmy Johns model.
	So I had to learn that.
	I had to save up the money to do it.
	And then I had to learn what a franchise contract is, what a FDD is, which is a federal disclosure document that the feds make you create.
	I had to learn what that was.
	Then I had to write one.
	Then I had to write a bad one to write a good one.
	So I figured out how to write a good FDD, you know, and then I had to figure out what a good franchisee was.
	And so from 93 to 2003, we opened, we had 176 Jimmy Johns franchise stores and had 23 company stores.
	And this is a relevant part of this story.
	My 23 stores at that time were making me about 4 million bucks a year, just those 23 stores, profit.
	And I had no debt.
	I didn't have debt because I didn't know how to get debt.
	And my sales were going straight up in my 23 company stores.
	My 176 franchise stores, sales were going down and had 76 of them failing.
	So 93 to 2003, I was in denial.
	I was taking the franchise fees.
	It was intoxicating.
	Yeah, how much do you get on the franchise fee?
	$25,000 a pop.
	So that was intoxicating money.
	And finally, James North, who's my president, he came to me and he said, Jimmy, he said, we got to stop selling franchises, man.
	Why?
	He says, because we got nothing.
	We got half the stores are failing.
	And why was it?
	What was the number one cause of why the stores were failing?
	Well, we stopped selling franchises.
	But why were the ones that were failing?
	Oh, right.
	The answer to the question is they weren't following systems and procedures and they didn't put our process on a pedestal because the company, the people that I hired from this other company didn't have such systems and procedures that we had at Jimmy John's.
	Jimmy John's is the most consistent chain that, I mean, Jimmy John's SBA loan was the highest performing, lowest failure rate SBA loan in the country because we were, did you?
	I have.
	That's the reason for it.
	So they weren't following our program.
	We were.
	So we fired all those guys.
	And James and myself literally went on the road in 2003.
	Freddie was two years old.
	Lucy was three.
	These are your children.
	My children.
	And here I'm going to go on the road again now.
	After I'm on the road 20 years, I'm going to go back on the road again and turn around 76 sub shops that were failing.
	So he and I did.
	We went on the road.
	It was a 12-month plan.
	We ended up on the road for 18 months, and we turned around 70 of 76 stores ourselves with our own hands.
	And from that point forward, when we got back 2004-ish, late 2004, I said, I'm going to tell every single person that wants to open a Jimmy John's that this is a lifestyle.
	This is nights.
	This is weekends.
	This is no weddings, no funerals.
	You can't get the sniffles.
	You can't have hurt feelings.
	This is a brand that if you buy into this, it's like having children, man.
	And so I told people the truth about it because I didn't want to do that again.
	I was done.
	I didn't have another one of those in me.
	And when you say another one of those, what do you mean?
	Being on the road for 18 months, 24-7 again?
	Did that ruin your marriage, you think?
	No, no way.
	No, shit.
	No, I got divorced back in 93. So I was with my current wife.
	And no, it didn't ruin my marriage.
	But it made me.
	That's a lot, man.
	And when you say it, it reminded me of stand-up comedy.
	Like, so many of my friends' funerals I've missed.
	So many of my friends' weddings I've missed.
	And it adjusts your friendship.
	When you don't make somebody's wedding, man, it adjusts your friendship with them a little bit.
	And it's kind of weird because sometimes you get to the end of some of the line and you have this career that's nice, but you've definitely there were a lot of stair steps that you missed along the way, a lot of social ones and emotional ones with other people.
	For sure, for sure.
	But after we got back from that and we did that road trip and we turned the stores around, literally, you want to open Jimmy Johns?
	We told you the truth.
	I was making enough money.
	Remember, I said my 23 stores.
	Okay, so before you're just kind of handing them out.
	Yeah.
	A little bit.
	Yeah, but not anymore.
	So now, what do you have to change in the documentation on y'all's end to assure that people will run it a certain way?
	Is there anything legally that you have to change?
	No, but what I did is I had a conversation like we're having, Theo.
	I'm Jimmy.
	You're Theo.
	We're going to have a conversation about real stuff.
	And I would sit down just like this and say, look, it's nights.
	It's weekends.
	It's not forgiving.
	It's not flexible.
	There are no days off.
	Do you really want to do this?
	Okay, if you do it, we'll give you one store.
	Great.
	We train you.
	We made it really hard.
	We had to come to Champaign, Illinois, train for three weeks, and then do a two-week internship somewhere else in a city like their store is going to be.
	Made it really hard for them to do.
	You know what I mean?
	And then they did that, and then they opened up and we helped them.
	And then if they were really good at it, and they wanted to do another one, we let them.
	And if they hated it, we'd get them out really quick.
	And so we teamed up with people that really wanted to do it.
	You know, I was in the selling business.
	I was hustling.
	So then I realized, well, I'm hustling, but I'm hustling bullshit, you know?
	And so I quit, you know, I started just telling it like it is.
	And remember, I was in this beautiful situation because I didn't have debt.
	I was making the dough from my company-owned stores.
	So I said, if I'm going to have this growth vehicle, it's going to be solid as a rock.
	Amen.
	And that's what I wanted, man.
	And you owe that to Mr. Northcott a lot?
	Oh, for sure.
	Absolutely.
	That was his idea to do that.
	And Jay, he's brand president right now working for Inspire Brands.
	Was it hard?
	Oh, wow.
	Was it hard for him to stop to get your attention?
	Because it wasn't.
	No, when he talked, I listened.
	And when I talked, he listened.
	Greatest partner in the world.
	He's one of the greatest guys I ever met.
	I mean, he's trustee to my children.
	I mean, he's a world-class man.
	Met him in Cold Bay, Alaska in 1999.
	He was a high school kid.
	And I just met him.
	I said, come on to America and I'll teach you to be the greatest sandwich maker in the world.
	He said, tell me about your sandwich app.
	I said, it's great.
	We're open from 10 to 2. He says, shit, I'm just out of college.
	I'll come.
	Were you open to 10 to 2?
	He says, I'll come.
	So he comes all the way from New Zealand to join me.
	He says, I didn't know you meant 10 to 2 a.m.
	He said, I thought it was 10 to 2 p.m.
	He's like, oh, shit, I'm here.
	So anyway, that's a true story.
	So he's still there running it.
	Oh, that's hilarious.
	Yeah, it's funny.
	Today's episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
	BetterHelp will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist.
	You can start communicating in under 24 hours.
	It's not a crisis line.
	It's not self-help.
	It is professional counseling done securely online.
	You know, I remember a couple of, hello, probably about a year, a year and a half ago, I pulled off the side of the road.
	I said, I need some dang help.
	I was in my car and I couldn't get any help.
	So I said, I need better help.
	And I got on the phone.
	The next scene on FaceTiming with a licensed therapist.
	Right there on the side of the road, people honking, people calling me the F-word, people calling me dirty names.
	Creepus!
	But I was getting help, man.
	BetterHelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches that make it easy and free to change counselors if you need.
	Visit betterhelp.com slash T-H-E-O.
	That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.
	And join the over half a million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional.
	Special offer for this past weekend listeners get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash Theo.
	Look, if you want to put that, you know, an athlete is something that's active, something that's moving, something that is creating beauty, something that is making things that is in motion.
	And what I'm talking about is athletic greens.
	They basically took an athlete and put it into greens, baby.
	One of the ways I've taken ownership over my health is with athletic greens.
	You take it in the morning.
	It's easy.
	You mix it in.
	It's a great mix.
	You mix it right into water.
	Boom.
	I throw an ice cube in there for that temperature of comfort.
	You get that temperature at the same spot you need it at.
	Today's program is brought to you by Athletic Greens, the most comprehensive daily nutritional beverage.
	It has everything in it.
	75 vitamins and minerals.
	Do you know how long it would take you to take 75 vitamins?
	It could literally take you an hour and a half.
	They have whole food source ingredients, multivitamin, multimineral, probiotic, greens, superfood blend, and more.
	They all work together to fill the nutritional gaps in your diet, increase energy and focus, and aid in digestion.
	Yep.
	Go to athleticgreens.com and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs.
	When you use athleticgreens.com slash Theo, join health experts, athletes, and health conscious go-getters around the world.
	Again, simply visit athleticgreens.com slash T-H-E-O and get your free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs today.
	AthleticGreens.com slash Theo.
	We have a question right here that came in from a young man.
	Theo Vaughan, hello from England.
	Before I get on to my question for Jimmy John, Mr. Jimmy John, I'd like to say to you thank you for your consistent rare light shining through dark times, making these uncertain times a little bit easier to deal with, a little bit less of a struggle on a daily basis.
	So thank you from the bottom of my heart for that.
	And to you, Mr. Jimmy John, when I was over in Boston working over there, I got a taste for that freaky fast, freaky fresh hitter, the Vito.
	And I was wondering when you plan on bringing your sandwiches over to England at all.
	Mainly because at the moment all we've got is Subway.
	Oh.
	Which sucks.
	Yeah, and I made love to a girl near a subway once.
	So did I. Jimmy John's freaky fast, freaky fresh international.
	Is it a possibility?
	Thanks, guys.
	Gang, gang.
	Gang, brother.
	And thanks for the nice words, man.
	Merry Christmas to you, man.
	I love you.
	And thanks for being a part of this podcast.
	Send me your address, and I'll FedEx you some sandwiches anytime you want.
	I'll tell you what.
	I'll do it for you once a month.
	You just send me, you can get my email address from Theo and I'll hook you up I'll FedEx them with ice packs and you'll get them fresh in England.
	I don't own it anymore, buddy.
	Yeah, we'll send you some though.
	That's very sweet of you.
	That'd be great.
	Hey, look, man, it's a Christmas gift for you from Jimmy John himself, man.
	You know, you guys group does good, though, man.
	They set me up with a lifetime membership.
	Oh, really?
	Yep.
	I've been a long time Jimmy John East.
	I'm a Turkey Tom guy.
	And so I would get the Turkey Tom, and I would just talk about it on Snapchat or on Instagram story.
	And then, yeah, one day they wrote me back.
	And I remember I took the card to the guy here, and the guy's like, dang, I don't even know if I've ever even seen one of these.
	He was like all stoked, you know?
	Dude, I thought I was the only one that gave those out.
	So good, my guys were doing the right thing.
	I don't think they're giving them to everybody, though.
	No, they're not.
	It was nice that they did it, though.
	You still got it?
	I still got it, yeah.
	Sweet.
	We just shot a sketch this morning with Brett Favre Jr., actually, and we were doing, we gave the card to my buddy, GoTreater, ready to lunch.
	Oh, nice.
	And everybody came over here.
	Okay, so let's get into a little bit more of like, so you have the business.
	What changed for you when you became, were you guys rich when you were a kid?
	No, I told you we were poor twice.
	So, but we were bankrupt in 72 and 76, and I left home in 82. And then my father, I would say he started, he got out of debt in 76. And when I was in high school, my father had a Cadillac.
	So I don't know what your definition of rich is or what your definition of spicy is, but he had a Cadillac, you know.
	And then when I left home, and he became way more successful after I left home, you know.
	What business did he get into?
	So my father was a book salesman, and then he was a plastic molder.
	My father invented the process of molding molten plastic around metal.
	It was called insert molding.
	It was a technology that he really created the technology.
	And essentially what it did is anytime you could take metal out of a part and make the majority of the part plastic and just make the metal contact metal, and you could remove cost out of a part.
	So it was a great technology.
	And so the first time he just didn't do his books right.
	And in 76, he developed a CB antenna.
	And to make a CB antenna, you had to coil copper wire around a magnet.
	And it was your antenna base.
	Well, my dad molded it.
	And by molding it, he could make them very consistent, made them perform better.
	And his top salesman, top accountant, top engineer split, stole the design, and went and opened up a competing business and bankrupted him.
	And that was in 76. And that's how he got bankrupted the second time.
	And the government and the courts were so slow that by the time he got to the courts and got in suing him, the antenna.
	Technology had passed him.
	Well, the CB business had been flying.
	And yeah, basically.
	And so, but anyway, he learned and had a little humility and worked his ass off.
	That must have been heartbreaking, though.
	You have your family going, you know, you're working so hard on something.
	You're inventing.
	You're creating something.
	It's like a baby.
	It's like you're a thing.
	And then somebody burns you like that.
	Somebody burns you.
	But welcome to the club, right?
	It's a business, man.
	It's also business.
	It's life.
	It's life.
	It is life.
	But from that, my father created a product called the K40 CB antenna that was guaranteed to transmit further and receive clearer than any other antenna.
	And he sold them over the telephone to independent dealers.
	And that became a successful business.
	And so, yeah, dad ended up doing well.
	But I was gone.
	I mean, like I told you, I was raised.
	We didn't have stuff.
	We had a lot of love, but not stuff.
	I think my younger brother and sister had a little cushier time than my older brother and I. Do you think your dad felt achieved by the time he passed away in his life?
	My dad was very achieved.
	Do you think he felt it, though?
	I understand that he was.
	Yeah, I would say.
	Was he content, you know, as content as any man can be?
	Because contentment, you know, contentment is fleeting.
	It's temporary, right?
	Perfection's a journey, not a destination, right?
	So, you know, I would say at moments he felt, but my dad was pretty proud of himself.
	He just was naturally.
	But to be able to feel that, I bet to be able to be it and then to actually kind of stuff it with the right cotton, you know, by the end of the line, I bet that probably felt pretty cool.
	Yeah, I would, yeah, my dad was proud of himself, and he should be.
	He rocked it.
	I mean, he set the foundation for me to do what I did.
	And I would listen to him when I was a kid.
	He was working all the time.
	He's on the phone all the time.
	And doing his books after he didn't do his books right.
	And, you know, I learned to do my books because I knew I had to know my books.
	And I know one of the kids said, you know, what do you got to do to be successful?
	You got to have a better product than everybody else.
	You got to know your cost, and you got to outwork the competition.
	And if you can do those three things, you can be successful.
	But you got to be willing to do it.
	You can't just Google it.
	You got to do it.
	You got to get in there and be uncomfortable when most people don't want to be uncomfortable, right?
	That's how you did it.
	So I don't know where I'm going with that theme.
	No, it's a good point.
	Look, I mean, I remember walking out of, you know, Joe Rogan's studio and being like, man, that guy has it made, you know, and then I remember thinking, well, how could I do that?
	And I started doing some podcasting in my kitchen, you know, and just kind of built it in and built a camera.
	And I would get one on my, you know, bought a camera and got just a thing on my desk.
	And then my computer would record also, stay up, edit it, put in the music.
	And then one day, people started listening, you know, putting it out there, putting the product out there.
	And then a guy called me from this place called Greyblock Pizza.
	It's a small pizza place in LA and Bend, Oregon.
	They have a branch, and they were our charter sponsor for years, and they still are.
	And really?
	That's where the term get that hitter came from, which is now one of our main merchandise pieces.
	And he's still right now your guy.
	Yep.
	He's still my guy.
	This guy Thomas.
	And he said, you know what, man, I believe in you.
	He goes, what you need to get, you need to get a studio.
	And he goes, I'll give you $1,000 a month.
	And I said, well, man, if you give me $1,000, I'm going to keep that $1,000.
	I'm not spending on a studio, man.
	You know what I'm saying?
	I'm going to take that $1,000.
	I'm going to go retire.
	That's where my brain was.
	And he goes, no, man, you can't see it.
	He goes, you can't see it.
	But if you get to here, you're going to be fine when you get there.
	He goes, you've just never been there.
	And it wasn't a big jump, But it was, yeah, getting a place.
	And then we bought a studio.
	Man, the first studio we released was Take Away This Little Enclave, and it was just as big as this room.
	And, man, we had some amazing guests came in there.
	Dustin Poirier came in.
	Jordan Peterson, who's one of the premier speakers and orators and brains of our time.
	Burt Chrysler, Tom Segura.
	We had amazing guests in this little bitty space.
	Was it in Bend, Oregon?
	No, this was in LA.
	In LA.
	This was in L.A., yeah.
	But yeah, we moved from our kitchen over to another place.
	And then now we have two studios now and we have two podcasts.
	And it's definitely a lot more work now.
	you don't get to just sit there and be the fun guy sometimes.
	You don't get to be the...
	You're the guy in the middle that everybody around you is telling the jokes.
	And sometimes I think some of business starts to get to be like that.
	You don't get to be as much the goof anymore 100% of the time because you got to be the glue a lot of the times, you know?
	Or you got to be both.
	You got to be both.
	And it's different things at different times, right?
	Sometimes you need to love.
	Sometimes you need to motivate.
	And sometimes you need to correct, and sometimes you need to celebrate.
	And it's a balancing act, man.
	It's spinning plates.
	And I think we have a very similar story.
	I think a very similar story, just different medium.
	I was doing sandwiches.
	You're doing what you're doing with your intellect and your comedy.
	Yeah, and it's the thing of self-serving.
	It's like, how do I put out something that's good?
	How meticulous am I?
	Were there times where you were too meticulous?
	Because I find that in myself sometimes, I'm too on top of people about things.
	And it almost just, it like debilitates me sometimes where my focus is.
	Sure.
	That overall it hurts things.
	100%.
	You know, was I ever too meticulous?
	I was very much penny-wise and pound foolish.
	So when the business got to be, you know, approaching $3 billion in sales, almost 3,000 stores, 1,900 in the pipeline.
	I mean, this thing was, we were opening 30 stores a month, selling 45 new deals a month.
	I mean, it was a monster.
	I wouldn't even go to sleep if I was doing that.
	I couldn't.
	It was crazy.
	It was driving me nuts.
	And when I actually talked to James North today, who's the current brand president?
	And as I talked to him today, he's a real strategic, big thinker.
	And I'm an operator like, okay, shit's bad.
	Okay, let's go get more drivers.
	Let's bake better bread.
	Let's clean the store better.
	You know, let's make the lights brighter.
	You know, I'm a real sort of a pragmatic operator.
	And James was a real strategic thinker.
	So I was focusing so much on little stuff that I was missing sight of the big stuff.
	You follow me?
	And so for me, at the time that, I mean, how I got it as big as I got it, I have no idea.
	I got so lucky and selling it and doing the final deal in October of 19, you know, before COVID and everything, I got lucky.
	But I was not, I got way caught up in the minutia.
	The lawsuits were personal.
	And for big companies, lawsuits aren't personal.
	For me, it was another attack on me, another attack on me, like the shark, another attack on Jimmy, another attack on Jimmy.
	That's not me.
	That's not me with the shark.
	Oh, yeah, that's Jim.
	No, it's not me.
	But the attack, the attack.
	Yeah, that's you killing these drivers.
	That's not me, man.
	It's like we just have an advertising plan.
	That's right.
	Wow.
	So when you take things personally, if you work real hard and you start it from the grassroots, it's all personal to you.
	It is personal.
	It's extremely personal, man.
	Yeah.
	So I'm just getting over that now.
	And I'm actually, when the sale first went down, it was weird, man.
	Because you got sold for what?
	$150?
	What did you guys sell for?
	Dollars?
	$150 billion, I was going to say.
	No, you know what?
	That's an insane amount, isn't it?
	I'd love to tell you, but I'm so excited.
	You can't tell me.
	But it's confidential.
	Now, when you sell, then, let's go to this.
	When you sell, what does that mean?
	You sell what?
	Are you still a chairman?
	Are you still doing sometimes, man?
	Let me tell you how it works.
	So you said, like, Jimmy, when did you start to think about getting in other businesses?
	You asked me that earlier.
	In 2007, I sold 28% of the business, and so I had a chunk of dough, and I didn't know how to invest.
	So I bought farm ground and I bought gold.
	Okay.
	And let me tell you how naive I was.
	My brilliant Jewish partners that are awesome guys, Michael Lazarus, he says, he says, oh, you bought gold.
	What gold fund did you buy?
	I said, what's a gold fund?
	He says, you took physical possession of gold?
	I said, yeah, man, I bought 400-ounce bars.
	And he said, you just buy a fund.
	I didn't even know what a gold fund was.
	But I understood farming.
	You buy the seed.
	So I started thinking about other businesses.
	And at that time, I sold 28% of it.
	And then in 2006, I gave my employees 7% of the company.
	And I still own 65%.
	In 2016, I sold 30 points of my 65 points to a company called Rourke Capital.
	And they have like 30,000 restaurants.
	They own Aunt Anne's, they own Carvell.
	They have an offshoot, Inspire Brands, who we merged with.
	They have Arby's, Buffalo, Wild Wings, Sonic, and Jimmy Johnson.
	Now just bought Dunkin' Donuts, right?
	Oh, wow.
	So I sold 30 points to them in 2016.
	And then 35%, I merged my final 35% with Inspire Brands.
	And so now I'm a large shareholder of Inspire Brands.
	And so that's how it works.
	And that's how it works for me.
	It's not how everybody does it.
	It's how I did it.
	And that way just worked for me.
	Are you pleased with how you did it looking back?
	Yeah?
	Are you kidding me?
	I think, I mean, come on.
	I mean, are you kidding me?
	But when you're perfection, when you are someone who's to the minutiae, are there things you would have done any differently looking back?
	Because look, man, I'll be laying in a fucking gold coffin complaining about something.
	I got rid of the gold bars, by the way.
	I sold them at the right time, too.
	Oh, thank God, man.
	Yeah, that's a tricky business.
	But, you know, are there things that I wished I did different?
	Gosh, yes.
	You know, I wish I wouldn't have.
	There's a lot of things I wish I would have done different.
	But, you know, that's the beauty of life.
	And that's the beauty of age and wisdom.
	And with wisdom and with experience comes some peace.
	And my brain, I got a side of my brain that's been able to grow now that wasn't growing because of the noise.
	The noise was so intense.
	And the noise was just so intense.
	I mean, my resting heart rate when I wake up in the morning now is under 60 and I weigh 275 pounds.
	And it was like 100.
	So the noise is gone and the peace is here and my family's here.
	And life is good.
	And my timing, I got lucky with my timing, Theo.
	Give me a break.
	Get out of here.
	I got lucky, okay?
	I'll take it, right?
	I'll take it.
	Sometimes you put 100 bucks on red when you spin the wheel and you hit red.
	I'll take the 100.
	Take the fucking red, yeah.
	So there you go.
	Yeah, that's a good point.
	Yeah, sometimes there's even this weird thing about taking like luck, you know?
	It's like it feels like it wasn't like yours.
	But yeah, it's like you got to take that, man.
	That's life.
	It is life.
	Because it could just as easily go the other way.
	And it does.
	Yeah, and it most often does.
	Absolutely.
	It most often does.
	Let's take a question right here from a young fella right here.
	Come out.
	Jimmy John, one question.
	What do you get at Jimmy John's?
	Fucking mind-blowing.
	You like some way better.
	Right on.
	So I love a turkey tom with onions and oil and vinegar added to it.
	I love a turkey tom that way, but if you get it that way, you got to eat it immediately.
	You can't wait.
	My go-to sandwich is the new East Coast Hoagie.
	So you got to get the new number seven East Coast spicy hoagie.
	That is my favorite one right now.
	For sure.
	I think it's the best sandwich that we've ever done.
	I like the Frenchie a lot, but Inspired Brands got rid of it.
	Did you have the little Frenchie?
	Nope, I never had it.
	Nope, I never had it.
	I've always gotten the Turkey Tom, except for the last couple times I went, I got a club.
	Italians?
	Yeah, Italian nightclub.
	Yeah.
	Number nine.
	So, but I've been a Turkey Tom guy my whole life, man.
	I'm a real, I kind of stick with what works for me.
	You know, so you're 40. Yeah, I'm 40 now.
	You know, now that I, I'm just sitting here thinking, Jimmy John's just part of your whole life.
	Oh, 100%.
	Jimmy John's was only part of half of my life.
	I have a hard time with the obvious.
	I just realized you grew up with it.
	Dude, it's crazy.
	So if I'm a touring or I'm in a different city and wherever I get, the first thing on my way into town, I will see if they have a Jimmy John.
	I'll just have them bring one right to the hotel.
	So when I get there, I have a Jimmy John's, man.
	It's one thing that I do feel about Jimmy John's is it is as reliable a food that exists out there.
	Every time it's going to be the same and it always gets there fast, man.
	It's just there.
	It's like, it really is.
	It's just there.
	The other shit, I don't know what's going to happen.
	Somebody might get shot on the way delivery.
	I have no idea.
	But with Jimmy John's, it's straight up.
	Now, I had, I actually got, I had, got a, I hooked up with Jared from Subway's sister a long time ago in the French quarter.
	This is a long time ago.
	So I've had some unique interactions with some, you know, with some sandwich experiences over my life.
	And then I used to talk about Quiznos a lot of times.
	Now, Quiznos went under, right?
	Yeah.
	And here's why I think, and this just is a straight male, you know.
	Quiznos, I would go into Quiznos, right?
	And you get the toasted sandwich.
	It's toasted, right?
	Which I liked.
	It's cool, you know?
	But the problem with Quiznos was there was just men in there eating them.
	So when you have a toasted sandwich and you're like bringing it up to your mouth and it has like this kind of like, this big open mouth kind of vibe and you're just sitting there and there's other men in there just looking at each other.
	It had this extremely homoerotic vibe for me at Quiznos.
	And I wouldn't, bro.
	And I think I really believe that it hit a lot of men that way.
	And it just, it kind of made it too tough for me to go get Quiznos.
	And sometimes it would burn my mouth.
	It would kind of chat me up a little bit.
	And it just felt kind of homoerotic eating those in there because it was only men in there.
	I think they only really cater to men.
	I have no idea.
	I never, this is the first time I ever heard this in my life.
	Oh, this is a big theory out there, but a lot of women won't go get a toasted sandwich.
	It just is a good toasted sandwich as potbelly.
	It's not dainty enough.
	I like potbelly.
	They don't toast them too hard, right?
	I like that.
	But anyway, those are just some sandwich experiences that I've had.
	But did you, was there another sandwich place that you really enjoyed over the years or another business that you watched grow over the years?
	Yeah, I think that what businesses?
	I think Pretimange does a great job.
	I'm not even familiar with them.
	They're London-based.
	McDonald's owned them.
	And then they opened some stores in New York.
	They do a really good job with sandwiches.
	I think Portillo's Hot Dogs did a great job.
	I lost his go.
	They're out of Chicago, right?
	Yeah, out of Chicago.
	So my friend Dick Portillo, he sold about the same time, just about a year before I did.
	So another great guy.
	I love Portillo's a lot.
	What else do I respect a lot?
	I really respect Chick-fil-A.
	How can you not respect Chick-fil-A?
	I mean, what they do.
	I mean, my pleasure is getting a little old, but I respect it.
	And it's what they do, and it's what they say.
	I guess Freaky Fast could be getting pretty old, too.
	But I think Chick-fil-A is incredible respect.
	I think McDonald's new quarter pounder with cheese with the fresh burger.
	I think it's an incredible product.
	I think I've had that yet.
	Yeah, they're using a fresh meat patty now.
	Really?
	It's really a big difference.
	It's big time.
	Yeah, you ought to try it.
	How can you not respect In-N-Out?
	I mean, it's kind of a grilled cheese sandwich flavored with vegetables and a little bit of meat patty, but it's still pretty damn good, and the price is really, really, really good.
	Yeah.
	What else do I really respect a lot?
	Was there a good brand that came through that didn't make it that you were like, man, what happened here?
	Because this thing was...
	KFC, I do not.
	I don't, I'm a Popeyes guy, you know, but.
	It's a chicken sandwich.
	Their chicken is just.
	Bro, if they made a heroin, I would buy it.
	It's so good.
	Popeyes is good.
	Bro, if Popeyes made a heroin, dude, I don't think America would exist anymore.
	But yeah, there's just something about there.
	Did you ever meet that guy?
	What was his name?
	Al Copeland.
	Yeah, and his son.
	Really?
	What was that like?
	Because I'll tell you this.
	So growing up in that area, he put the big Christmas lights up by the edge of the lake, and people would get pissed because they had to drive their car by him.
	And people were like, I'm getting old.
	I can't see the end of the bridge.
	So he was always this flamboyant, like larger than life.
	That was like my dad.
	But go ahead.
	Yeah, he was just like that.
	He was like larger than life, like the big Christmas lights and we're doing this and we got to...
	He was just larger than life.
	He was.
	He was.
	I used to watch his offshore powerboat racing.
	Remember he did that?
	Dude, the cigarette boats.
	He would take hot girls back and forth from our town over to New Orleans and then bring them back like a month later.
	A month later.
	But I love that stuff so much.
	And I ended up creating or being part of an offshore powerboat with the Jimmy John's offshore powerboat.
	And we won the world championship three years in a row.
	And that was all inspired by that dude, Al Copeland.
	I thought it was so cool.
	I thought it was the coolest thing in the world, man.
	he was a hero.
	Remember his sunglasses and his gold chains?
	Oh, yeah.
	His big black hair.
	Oh, yeah.
	He was killing it.
	I don't know if he was Italian.
	I don't know what he was.
	Copeland.
	I'm not sure.
	He wanted to be Italian.
	Yeah, he wanted to be.
	For sure.
	Great call.
	Yeah, he was the legend around our area growing up because he was just, he bought this big place right when you got off the Causeway Bridge in New Orleans.
	And they had, he put all of his boats and his truck.
	Everything was big.
	He put it just, it was in these big glass windows.
	You could just see when you drove by for no real reason.
	But just to be like, hey, this is what I, you know, here's what's going on.
	Here's my shit.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	Did you, were there some, what are some other big entrepreneurial type guys?
	I'm sure you, that's one thing that's probably happened that maybe you didn't even expect is like you probably got to cross paths with just some amazing entrepreneurs over the years.
	You know what I have?
	And, you know, can I do a shout out to somebody?
	Sure.
	So it's 1987, and my father knew this guy named Jamie Coulter, who's a pizza hut operator out of Wichita.
	And my dad asked him, and he met him, and my dad was in this YPO group I told you about.
	And my dad asked Jamie to visit with me and talk me out of these dumb little sandwich ops that I had.
	I had three of them at the time or four of them at the time.
	So I met Jamie Coulter, and Jamie had 25 pizza hut stores.
	I met him, and at the time he made twice as much money at his pizza huts than the chain average.
	And we're talking together, and he called my dad, and he said, Big Jim, he says, I'm sorry.
	He said, your son believes in what he's doing here, and I'm going to champion him and support him because he believes in it and he can do it.
	So Jamie Coulter ended up building those 25 pizzas to 125, sold them, created Lone Star Steakhouse, created Sullivan's, and then bought Del Frisco's.
	And Jamie's been my mentor since 1987.
	And he's now just turned 80 years old.
	And he is a young 80. And he has coached me my entire life.
	He's taught me how to tie a tie, how to drink wine, how to talk to people.
	He's taught me about life.
	He was with me.
	So, Jamie, I love you, brother.
	And he's an awesome, awesome dude.
	And he and I are partners in a new brand that's called Seven Brew out of Northwest Arkansas.
	So we have nine little drive-through coffee shops.
	And so he's my partner in that.
	So that's a new venture that we're doing.
	So, Jamie Coulter, and then I have met so many of the great entrepreneurs in America.
	I mean, Dick Portillo from Portillo's Hot Dogs.
	And I mean, I've met the Koch family.
	And I met Henry Kravis from, you know, the KKR and George Roberts from those guys.
	And James Coulter from TPG.
	And so many.
	I mean, it's endless how many entrepreneurs.
	And then I was fortunate enough to be nominated to the Horatio Alger Association.
	You guys won it, right?
	I won it two years ago.
	And just in that alone, I mean, it's me.
	It's the CEO or Warren Buffett's right-hand guy.
	It's Roger Penske's there, Peyton Manning.
	You know, it was just crazy company, Oprah Winfrey.
	You know, it's like, whatever.
	How did a sandwich guy get here?
	Like, you know, are you a magician?
	Yeah, maybe.
	Do you find it hard to talk to some of those people in certain circles?
	Or is it not really, yeah, what do you find?
	Do you find, because like, what are you going to, I don't know what I would even say to folks.
	They, let me tell you something.
	They are so refreshed by refresh people that don't have an agenda.
	I'm not, I'm not, I'm, I, I'm not beholden to anybody.
	I don't have any debt.
	I don't owe anybody anything.
	I have everything I own is mine.
	And, and I, and I'm always help when I can be helpful.
	I'm not virtuous, but I'm just a, just a, just Jimmy.
	And so when I talk to somebody, I think when you talk to them real, I think their guard goes down.
	And then I think they kind of want to peel off and like hang with you and say, you know, hey, what's up?
	Hanging out?
	What's up?
	You know, what are you doing?
	What's new?
	And they are very endearing to me when I meet high-level people.
	I seem to be able to just talk to them and I talk just like this.
	And I don't think that most people talk just straight up like this, right?
	And I find that it's really, really easy to, the more you are you, the more they can be them.
	And they realize you don't have an agenda and they just shine.
	Yeah.
	And I think that's with any human being, not wherever they are.
	I agree.
	I think all human beings react to authenticity and genuineness and real, man.
	And that's all people want.
	It's a fair shake.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	There's something new about, I think, especially in this day, in this age, about vulnerability and how that is becoming like a commodity, you know, or just being able to relate, you know, or, hey, I think vulnerability, just saying, look, this is kind of where I'm at.
	This is like some of my things that are going on.
	This is some way I can relate to you.
	This is some way.
	I think it's why podcasting has done so well because there's just more of a conversation.
	Like there was some, like, part of me for a long time wished that Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump would have been on the same ticket because I felt like they were such opposites, but it would be great to see such opposites on the have to work together.
	That is fascinating.
	To then make a move forward, right?
	How about that?
	And I've always thought that maybe why does the vice president just get to be the same?
	Like, let's pick the, let's give an antithesis so that there's some real vitro between the two heads before they really make some choices.
	But.
	Boy, that is amazing that you, what a way to think.
	That would have been a fascinating team.
	And you know what?
	I think Bernie and President Trump might have really done a great job together.
	I agree too, because I think Trump had an inability to kind of just, he just, he was just a, I don't know.
	And I don't want to get into that.
	But talking to people that are, when you're authentic, people dig it, dude.
	People dig when you're real, and they know if you're real or you're not real.
	They know.
	People tell.
	If you really care, people know you care.
	And if you care, people will talk to you and they'll respond.
	As long as they're in a place of being too.
	And I think that the people that are more present and living in, those are the people you want to talk to anyway.
	Those that are so caught up in this world of electronics and all that, as much as they are the new, the word you told me, it's the new fossil fuel.
	Yeah, tech is the new fossil fuel.
	Tech is the new, that's my gem that I got from Theo today.
	That is incredible.
	So, you know, but I think when people are living real, they respond to real.
	And I think that everybody at different times in their life has different, you know, they're at different stages of their life.
	Yeah, you have to be, Not only do you have to be in front of something that's going to affect you, but you have to be open to it.
	That's the funny thing.
	A hundred people can tell me the same thing, but it's that one moment where it just gets through whatever the chasms are, the way they're lined up, and where it really hits.
	How'd you meet your second wife?
	How did that come across?
	Leslie, you said her name was?
	Yeah, Leslie.
	So I was at McCormick Place, and my buddies have a beef jerky company called Jack Links Beef Jerky.
	And it's from up in northern Wisconsin where our camp is, where Bishop Gunn played, right?
	And it's in Minong, Wisconsin.
	So they were at McCormick Place, and I had Bulls tickets.
	I was living downtown Chicago, and Michael Jordan was playing.
	This is back in the late 90s.
	The best time.
	The best, dude.
	I saw strong every single game, dude.
	I was there.
	Really?
	Yes.
	And went home, home in Chicago.
	Yes, for sure.
	And your brand wasn't doing good then, no?
	Yo, shit.
	Well, I had like 17 or 18 stores in the late 90s.
	I had all those deposits.
	I was making money out of my company stores.
	I've been rich for a long time.
	I thought it was later than that.
	I didn't know that your business aligned, some of your early success aligned with when the Bulls were still playing.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, remember, I had my company stores, and even though the franchise stores, I had 76 failing stores, I was still getting paid because they had to pay me a royalty.
	I said, look, we're going to run out of fuel.
	We need to stop this truck, and we need to refuel it.
	So they were two separate entities.
	So my company stores always made money.
	So anyway, I'm at McCormick Place at a grocery store show, and the Link boys have their beef jerky booth, and they're hustling jerky at their grocery store show.
	And so, and I said, and I had four Bulls tickets, so I always kept two and sold two, and it paid for my tickets, right?
	So my buddy Jay says, he's listening, he said, we're going to the Bulls game.
	He says, I got this girl that's working at Wells Blue Bunny ice cream booth right there around the corner.
	I want to take her to the Bulls game.
	He said, you know, I said, okay, well, let's go check it out.
	So we walk over there and this red-headed girl is there and with this blonde-headed girl that Jay was going to take and they were friends.
	And I said, would you like to go to the Bulls game?
	She says, yeah, but, you know, just friends.
	I said, for sure, 100%.
	Just friends.
	So we all four go to the Bulls game that night.
	We went to the Bulls.
	Yeah, I'm not starting at lovers.
	Yeah, that's right.
	We went to the Bulls game.
	And at the United Center, they sold these Bob Chins Mai Ties.
	And you could get an extra floater in there on the top for an extra buck.
	So by the second one, I was irresistible, and I got the hand on my knee.
	And so I was just irresistible.
	So listen.
	That's funny shit, man.
	So anyway, I got the hand on my knee, and we went to Gallagher's on the corner of Racine and Racine and Altgeld in Chicago to Gallagher's.
	And we went to the bar after the Bulls game.
	And walking back to my house, we totally made out.
	And then she came back the next weekend for the restaurant show, and she was doing the Wells Blue Bunny ice cream booth at the restaurant show.
	Did you have a booth at the restaurant show or no?
	No, no, no, not yet.
	So I go, so I took her out Friday night and I said, listen, it's 10 o'clock.
	I need you to take you back to your hotel because I just can't do this.
	You've got a boyfriend and I just can't do this.
	And I'm going to take you back to your hotel.
	So I drove her back to her hotel.
	I called her at 3 o'clock in the morning.
	I said, you up.
	I can't sleep.
	I said, I'm coming to get you.
	So I came to get her, and then she moved to Chicago a month later.
	I asked her to move in with me.
	She's like, dude, I'm not moving in with you.
	And she had a four-year-old son.
	Wow.
	And his name was Spencer.
	And she was 22. She had him as she was a freshman in college and had a child.
	So she got a job at WS.
	How old did she go to, you know?
	She went to southwest Missouri State.
	Oh, you'll get a four-year-old there.
	You'll get a four-year-old there.
	She got a four-year-old there.
	And I was lucky enough to adopt him.
	So he's my oldest son.
	Oh, that's cool.
	But anyway, it just all worked out, man.
	We got engaged the following Valentine's says, Leslie, and we've been through it all.
	We've been through everything that a couple can go through, dude.
	We've been through it.
	We earned it.
	We love the shit out of each other.
	And we're rolling.
	You know, we got this thing.
	So that's my story and my love.
	Dude, that's awesome, man.
	So if you, after, let's go to this question real quick, and then I'll ask one more and we'll finish up.
	What does this guy have here?
	Thank you for calling, brother.
	Hey, yo, Dio Jimmy.
	It's Dave from Louisville.
	I just wanted to hear you guys' thoughts on this tattoo I've had for about 10 years now.
	Shout out to Jimmy Jones on the subhan.
	Gang, gang.
	Dude, gang, gang, that rocks.
	Nice work.
	I guess that's a hand he eats his subs with that left-handed sub-eater.
	I hope that's the hand he eats his sub with.
	Yeah, me too, bro.
	Who knows what else he's doing, man?
	That's beautiful, man.
	Actually, I feel like they could have done the artwork a little bit better, if I'm really going to be honest with them.
	But at the same time, I totally respect it, man.
	Right on, buddy.
	Have you seen a lot of people over the years that have done some weird things like that for you?
	And I'm not saying you're weird, brother, but are there people that have really shown up with some tattoos and stuff?
	Buddy, I used to do a convention in Vegas every two years, and we'd have 3,000, 4,000 people in Vegas at a convention.
	And I'd give away prizes and Rolexes and recognize great performers and bring in rock stars.
	Kid Rock would come play, or Zach Brown would come play.
	Bishop Gunn had come play.
	And, man, I saw some big Jimmy John tattoos in some crazy places.
	And I'm sure that they're sorry that they put those JJs where they put them because I saw some shit, dude.
	Yeah, I've seen a lot.
	I've seen a lot.
	Anyway, it is what it is.
	You've seen some stuff that's not on the menu.
	I've seen some stuff that's not on the menu.
	For sure.
	All right, let's take one more here, and then I'll hit you with a question and we'll finish up.
	What's up, Theo?
	What's up, Jimmy?
	Hey, buddy.
	So my question for you is, what's the craziest customer experience that you've ever had?
	I think mine would be when I worked at Jimmy John's in downtown Wilmington.
	It was the first night, me and my manager, you know, working there till 3, 4 in the morning.
	We got those bar drunk people coming in and one guy had ordered and he comes back up and he goes, hey man, I think some naked guy just came in through the back and went upstairs.
	And I'm like, are you serious?
	He's like, yeah.
	And so I go get my manager and next thing you know, he goes upstairs and he's bringing out some naked guy.
	And I'm like, what is going on?
	Subs are making people crazy.
	Hey, man, free smells, dog.
	Right on.
	Did you ever have any wildness like that?
	I'm sure you do right there.
	And anything that stands out?
	Buddy, there has been so much wildness that I have seen 36 years on college campuses with sub sandwiches.
	Buddy, I've seen porn on the internet done in Jimmy John's bathrooms, Which has been nicely emailed to me.
	I have seen stuff.
	I have seen, I mean, I don't know where to go with it.
	It's overwhelming.
	I think it's just human nature.
	I don't think it's Jimmy John's.
	I think that you mix alcohol and late night and people, I think that people just, like, Mike is they turn into raccoons and they start doing, you know, they start crawling around and doing weird shit.
	Oh, you'll find your fucking cousin in the recycling bin, dude.
	And if there's enough drugs and booze around.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, sir.
	What about, so in life, you know, you've, I feel like for me, I noticed in my life, there's like a, I found like an, like I, in the past two years, I've started to make a little bit of money in my life, and I never had any money.
	Yeah.
	And money was always, and I think in a lot of people's lives, it's always, it's a goal, it's a motivator, it's a, and I don't know if it was my motivator.
	I think some type of a success was maybe my motivator, and I've achieved some success.
	Hell yeah.
	But I felt like it's not as there really isn't, it's not as joyous as you would, it doesn't pay off really exactly like you've kind of, for me, it hasn't paid off exactly like I felt, like I felt like it would.
	Like you thought it would.
	Yes.
	It's not what you thought it would be.
	Let me tell you, so I'm 16 years.
	I'm 56. You're 40, right?
	Yeah.
	So here's, here's, if happiness is hard work, brother, and it's hard to make it, it's five times harder to hold on to it.
	That's number one thing with money, okay?
	It's five times harder to hold on to it.
	Number two, money doesn't bring you happiness.
	You want to be happy?
	You got to watch your sugar.
	You got to drink a lot of water.
	You got to exercise in the morning.
	You got to keep your house in order, keep your life in order.
	And I have to hang around people that I aspire to be like or want to be like because it rubs off on me.
	You got to have a presence of discipline.
	You got to have a presence of balance.
	And you got to have a little bit of fun.
	And you got to forgive yourself for being human when you overseason your steak, which we happen to do once in a while as human beings.
	And you can take that any way you want to take it and forgive yourself so you can get back on the track of happiness.
	And happiness is hard work, man.
	It is.
	I'm obviously a billionaire, right?
	But you can have 10 cars and 10 boats and 10 houses and you can eat yourself three chocolate cakes and six Big Macs and six Jimmy John subs, and you're going to feel like shit, okay?
	And it's going to be horrible, and you're going to be one horrible rich motherfucker, okay?
	And so really, happiness is hard work.
	And genuine, genuine happiness.
	I mean, real, not baloney bullshit, you know.
	You can party, that's fine, but real contentment and happiness, man, it's hard work.
	And it takes work every single day to do that.
	And when you do it, you know, when you do it every day or have a presence of it, and then you have better weeks, and then you have better months, and you have better quarters, and then you have better years, you know.
	I wish I would have known this 10 years ago.
	I'm learning this now since I don't have all the pressure of Jimmy John's.
	So I'm learning this stuff now.
	And this is for me.
	I don't know what's for you, but this is the wine I like to drink.
	I'm not going to tell you what kind of wine you like to drink, but this is, you know, I had a wine class one time.
	I paid $200.
	He says, okay, you ready for the class?
	Good wine is wine you like.
	Great.
	Class over, let's drink.
	Wow.
	So I'm like, thanks, man.
	What's all that shit they're doing in the restaurant?
	He says, that's all bullshit.
	They're making all that stuff up.
	Because I felt so stupid with wine, right?
	Now I own a couple wineries that we do very well.
	But that's beside the point.
	So, you know, it's just whatever it is to you.
	But for what I found is, you know, I've been rich for a long time and in my world, rich for a long time.
	And I made my first million dollars in 93 and had no debt, you know?
	And having no debt is huge.
	Huge.
	I didn't know how to get it.
	I didn't know how to fill out the paperwork.
	Well, it's funny your dad said that, you know?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And those bankruptcies scared me.
	And I was poor and I didn't ever want to be poor again.
	And so I was a real saver and still am.
	I'm very conservative.
	I only invest in things that I totally understand, you know, or a person that I totally understand.
	I really tend to bet the jockey, not the horse.
	Interesting, man.
	Yeah.
	So that's the list, people.
	The list is if you want to have happiness in your life, I feel like you started off by making a list of the things you needed in your kitchen.
	And I feel like you kind of ended up by giving us a list of your experience of the things that we need if we want to have some sort of happiness, you know?
	Do you feel like that's where a lot of your motivation is spent now kind of these days?
	Like finding just feeling good, finding some happiness?
	100%.
	I think contentment, Theo.
	I think that, you know, private planes are convenient, but you can be miserable in a private plane.
	You know, all those perceived, you know, Kardashian amenities, right?
	Or whatever Hollywood amenities, all those things are great.
	But to feel good, you got to feel good.
	And it's hard work to feel good.
	And so I'm filling in a lot of gaps that I wasn't able to do because I was fighting the battle for 36 years, and I was just overwhelmed at the end.
	It was just so big.
	I was like drinking through a fire hose.
	And now, you know, really being addressed, my weight, my health, and really every single day through this hunting season and Thanksgiving and Christmas and really trying to balance myself, man, I've done a better job this year than I've ever done in my life.
	Like this is the best life that I've ever lived and I'm in a great direction.
	And I think a year from now, if we had a podcast, I think you'll see me 20 or 30 pounds lighter.
	And it's just what I'm doing right now.
	And it feels good.
	It feels good to sleep good.
	It feels good, man.
	It feels really shitty when I drink a bottle or two of tequila, which I did last week with Bobby and Clint Boyer.
	We went hunting deer in Texas, and we drank a lot of tequila, man.
	And man, I paid the price for three days.
	I mean, hangovers at my age are a week now.
	It's almost not worth it.
	Yeah, oh, hangovers, your stock will dip, you know, online.
	So anyway, yeah, man, I just see, you know, a little peace and contentment and relationships with my kids.
	And I just moved to Franklin, Tennessee in June, and I love it.
	Congratulations.
	It's like old America here.
	It's the neighbors, we get to our house.
	We're at our house three days.
	The neighbors bring over a fire pit made out of iron that a local guy welded and ate Adirondacks chairs and a stack of wood and set it up and brought a cooler of beer and said, welcome to the neighborhood.
	Wow.
	Lit a fire.
	I mean, this is where I live.
	I live in America, man.
	This is America where people love each other and help each other and look after each other.
	And that's how I felt coming here to Nashville and Franklin.
	And it's just, it is, it's an awesome place.
	And yeah, I'm going to bring my whole, I'll bring everything down here.
	And so, yeah, we're definitely dipping our toe in it for sure and seeing what that feels like.
	We wanted to kind of make this like a have a different option.
	You know, we had a mortician come on from Kentucky, and he was like one of our best gas averages.
	Really?
	Oh, he said, look, bro, he said, if you kill somebody, man, kill them in like kind of a rural area because a lot of times it goes straight from the policeman to the mortician.
	So there's not a lot of interior detective work.
	So if you can trick that first policeman into thinking, oh, this is a natural cause, dude, it's straight to the mortician and then it's straight to the ovens, bro.
	You know, that guy's making a different kind of bread.
	But anyway, so just some of the things.
	We had a female trucker on.
	That was a really amazing episode.
	We're just trying to get back into just like people that are hardworking people that, you know, just capturing a strong bit of a sense of America that's still left, you know?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Do you believe that entrepreneurial spirit in the American dream is still alive?
	You know what I do?
	I think it is still alive.
	I think that there were some unintended consequences of some decisions that were made by some people that didn't run businesses but made business decisions.
	And I believe everybody deserves happiness, right?
	But I think happiness is hard work, right?
	So, for example, the minimum wage, you raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks, okay?
	And then you throw COVID on top of it.
	Every small mom and pop business in America is done.
	And so they wanted to make sure that the small guy could make a living wage at $15 an hour.
	Their hearts were in the right place.
	Beautiful.
	Thank you.
	Such virtuous thinking.
	But look, who's got all the money now?
	Jeff Bezos got all the money.
	And then every time one of these little mom and pop shops is selling on Amazon, as soon as it reaches a certain level, Amazon just knocks it off.
	And then the mom and pop shop is gone.
	So was the minimum wage really a good thing?
	Well, it was a good idea, but the function, wait till you see what happens after COVID, Theo.
	So there's some, you know, I think the entrepreneur spirit is alive.
	And I think that it's going to be there always.
	You know, as long as everything is fair and we're playing with the same set of rules and elections are fair and it's real and that everybody has to play with the same set of rules.
	As soon as there's two sets of rules, that's when there's going to be problems.
	So we need to get back to, you know, we need to, you know, fences make good neighbors.
	We need to have the same set of rules, I think.
	So I believe that.
	Do you feel like something that what will happen to entrepreneurs after we come out of COVID?
	Do you think there's going to be a good opportunity for people that want to start something?
	Absolutely.
	I think there's going to be a huge opportunity.
	You know where Theo?
	The opportunity is also in the trades, man.
	The electricians and plumbers and construction workers and the reel and the pipeline of these guys.
	The opportunity in that stuff is going to be astronomical.
	It's because things, no matter what, things have got to get built.
	So I think that the wage in that stuff is going to be up north of $100 an hour.
	So I think that's huge.
	I think that entrepreneurs that haven't got their ass kicked really hard and aren't licking their wounds, they're going to be ready to go.
	I'm jumping back into this new coffee business, and I'm really excited about it.
	Seven, that's what it's called?
	Seven Brew.
	Seven Brew.
	He said Northwest Arkansas, they just started.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So do you guys want to support a Jimmy John brand or it's Inspire Brands?
	Well, Inspire Brands is Jimmy John's.
	Seven Brew is myself and Jamie Coulter, my mentor, and a couple buddies.
	That's cool, man.
	That is cool.
	So yeah, the entrepreneurship's alive.
	Absolutely, it's alive.
	Look what you're doing.
	Look, I'm here, dude.
	I know.
	Look, this is amazing.
	Look, it feels good.
	Bro, it's so funny.
	All the dream guests that we've wanted over the years, we've had three of them, and they've all happened now, which is really interesting.
	Wow.
	It's interesting.
	But you're right, though.
	And no, it's just good to hear it from you because I feel like you've been through.
	It's just like you said, you have to get burned in a few leases to know if the lease is good.
	Like you've been through the burned leases to be able to look at the rest of us and say, hey, guys, things, you know, it just hits us in the spirit.
	Like, you can still do this, you know?
	You can.
	You can.
	Jimmy John, thank you so much, man.
	This has been awesome, man.
	And I appreciate you being here.
	And we'll have to go do some fishing sometime or something.
	I'd love to do that.
	It's really a pleasure to be here and a real honor to be here.
	My kids think you're a rock star, and you are.
	You're a real humble, smart, witty guy.
	And I appreciate your interest in having me here.
	I really do.
	I've never done this before.
	So thank you very much.
	You bet, man.
	And when Bishop Gilling gets back together, we'll go to one of their shows.
	Let's do it.
	Now, I'm just floating on the breeze.
	And I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
	I must be cornerstone.
	Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take a little time for me to set that parking break and let myself online shine and
	tell you I've been moving way too fast on the runaway train with a heavy load of past.
	And these wheels that I've been riding on, they're once so thin and empty, damn near gone.
	I guess now they just weren't built to lay.
	Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jonathan Kite and welcome to Kite Club, a podcast where I'll be sharing thoughts on things like current events, stand-up stories, and seven ways to pleasure your partner.
	The answer may shock you.
	Sometimes I'll interview my friends.
	Sometimes I won't.
	And as always, I'll be joined by the voices in my head.
	You have three new voice masters.
	A lot of people are talking about Kite Club.
	I've been talking about Kite Club for so long, longer than anybody else.
	So great.
	Hi, Sweet.
	Anyone who doesn't listen to Kite Club is a dodgy bloody wanker.
	Jamain.
	I'll take a quarter powder with cheese and a McFlurry.
	Sorry, sir, but our ice cream machine is broken.
	I think Tom Hanks just butt-dialed me.
	Anyway, first rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kite Club.
	Second rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kite Club.
	Third rule, like and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or watch us on YouTube, yeah?

▲