Sept. 28, 2025 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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Radio Show Hour 2 – 2025/09/27
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the political cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Well, welcome back, everybody.
James Edwards and Keith Alexander here on TPC First Hour.
We were talking about the Charlie Kirk Memorial.
It took place last Sunday, so we had to wait a week to sink our teeth into it, but we tried to give it a good treatment and issues attendant to that.
While also, as we wrap up our third quarter fundraising drive, reading some of your letters and handwritten notes, this listener, of all places, Edwardsville, Illinois.
First time donor, in fact.
James, thank you so much for TPC.
I listened to the entire show.
I even listened to the commercials and the news breaks.
I've told so many friends about it now that we're able to talk about your guests and the stories we've heard from the show.
And yes, my friend, we will be sending you that autographed copy of Culture of Critique, even after 15 years since it was released, a requested autographed copy of racism, schmacism.
They don't move like they once did, but we've still got some in stock.
And we're going to send that to you and a couple of other good things as well.
And thank you for writing and thank you for contributing and thank you for listening to the show and enjoying our guests.
Boy, do we not enjoy our guests.
We have the best guests and they're a lot more than that.
They are friends.
They are family.
They are brothers.
And we've got one of the very key ones here right now over all these years, Brad Griffin at Occidental Descent, OccidentalDescent.com.
Brad has spoken at the last two TPC conferences earlier this year and last year as well and has been a regular on the show for forever.
Brad, it's great to have you back tonight.
If in fact we do have you.
Yeah, there he is.
There he is.
If in fact we do have him, but we do.
Okay, no, it is great to have you back, Brad.
And let's just start here, my friend.
You were on a couple of weeks ago for that panel discussion about the Kirk murder and the murder of Arena Zarutka on that show.
I'm going entirely off memory.
Steve King, Steve Stockman, Peter Bringlow, Jared Taylor, yourself, Kyle Rogers, Paul Kersey, Kevin Deanna.
I think that's everybody that was on that show two weeks ago.
And so we have talked about the Kirk murder, but I wanted to have you back on tonight.
And it wasn't really even until yesterday when I called you that it sort of crystallized that I needed to have you back on tonight for a specific reason.
When we talked yesterday on the phone, I told you, and I say this, I tell this to Keith a lot as well.
We're not going to do it as well on the show as we did it on the phone because it was a pretty good conversation.
But explain to the audience what I called you about yesterday and what I said we needed to talk about tonight.
Well, we're basically been talking about what we've come on there almost to every episode for the last five years to talk about, and that's how mainstream conservatives are increasingly radicalized and are moving our way.
And I remember when I first brought up this topic, it was January, February, 2021, five years ago.
And it seems like with each new time we talk on the air, it's another milestone to celebrate.
And this latest milestone is really the culmination of that trend in a complete identification of our traditional enemy being Antifa with what ordinary conservatives see as their enemy, Antifa, to the point where, you know, Trump has declared them a domestic terrorist organization and has Stephen Miller, you know, has put executive orders and presidential memorandums in front of him, which have, you know,
from NGOs down to the foot soldiers has declared them domestic terrorists.
And now we're seeing troops being ordered into Portland.
And it's just stunning, like how there's been a complete ordinary mainstream conservatives have completely embraced the people like our definition of who is the enemy.
They're using the full force of the federal government to crack down on it.
But at the same time, the reason we talked about this is, you know, as this new milestone has happened, you have people like who are increasingly, you know, I would say kind of like revealing this true colors and like what they really believe in have flipped, you know, have said, you know, well, actually, you know, it's better to have Antifa around.
You know, they're not the real enemy.
They're, you know, they're also critical of Jews.
And it's just been stunning.
The backflip, the 180, you know, I've seen over the last week or so.
That's what we're doing.
Well, you know, Brad, this is Keith.
We've been to all those Amran conferences together, and always there was an Antifa cadre out there protesting.
Every year.
We knew about them 10 years ago.
Well, it's a lot.
It goes back.
Yeah, it goes back a lot longer than that.
The Anti-Racist Action Club, Brad, which was basically the precursor to what we now know as Antifa.
And of course, John Brown and his ideological descendants go back all the way to the 1800s.
But this is, I mean, you've written about this.
These people have been around forever.
Trump basically introduced them to the world at Charlottesville or after Charlotte.
Right, but for 25 years before, for 25, 30 years before Trump was elected president, we were fighting with these people.
They were doxing us.
It was a time I remember vividly.
Like I told you, my own wife, you know, got in two physical fights with them twice.
One time when I think she was like 13 or 14 years old, they attacked a picnic in St. Louis.
This was in the 2000s.
So we've been dealing with these people for people have been, I mean, skinheads fought with these people in the 90s, long before even I got in the movement.
They've always been our enemy.
They have the definition of our enemy.
They're our oldest enemies.
And now they're our government enemies.
See, Keith, that's a great point.
Isn't it?
Isn't it, though?
I mean, that is exactly right.
These were the enemies of the far right back then, and now they are the enemies of the regime.
But also the parents of the regime before the regime changed.
And if you do not believe, if you do not believe that there is a difference between Kamala and Biden and Obama and Trump, I don't think you're being sincere.
You're not in this same planet as us.
I mean, listen, I mean, on some levels, you can be.
I want to be fair, and I'm not going to punch right.
And, you know, we don't beef on this show, and we get along with everybody and always look for the good and the commonality.
But if you think that there's no difference or that the other side would have been better for us in some way, I just disagree.
And I couldn't disagree.
I couldn't disagree more, Brad.
Yeah, I completely agree with this.
And we were talking about it, and I said, well, I mean, it's been obvious for a while.
There are people who are in the far right who are just there for temperamental reasons.
They're disagreeable.
They're contrarian.
I guess, you know, there's a strong anti-social streak to it.
And what's happened is, and you know, we've been talking about this for the last five years, it's a tree.
We can go back in every episode.
I remember back in May, we talked about Shiloh Hendrix and dropping the M-bomb and that raising hundreds of thousands of dollars, another sign that conservatives were radicalizing.
I spoke about this at the conference.
And, you know, boy, has it, you know, just escalated, especially the last month.
You know, with the crackdown of black crime in the streets with the National Guard and sending to Memphis and DC, and great.
But it seems like our positions have been completely adopted.
Like, there's a one-to-one identification now.
Like, this is what we would do.
We would use the government.
Okay.
This is what we talked about.
This is one of the things that we talked about.
Why do we do any of this?
Why do I do a radio program?
Why do you operate a popular website?
Why does Jared Taylor do it?
Mainstream our ideas.
There it is.
I mean, why does Jared do Amran?
Why did Duke run?
Why do the Council of Conservative Citizens, all of those who have come before us, all those who are doing work now?
Why do we do it?
Why do we do it?
To influence society?
To have our ideas permeate up to ranks above and become government policy.
Is that not why we do it?
And now, as it is happening, how can we justify saying, well, we need to stake out another position over here that keeps us regulated to the fringe?
I do not understand that.
A lot of people being popular.
A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people have done that.
For them, it was always about, you know, being contrarian, being antisocial.
And one of the most striking examples of it to me is around 2022, 2023, when around the time Charlie Kirk, of all people, now I remember, we all remember how Charlie Kirk was as recently as 2019.
But as of 2022, 2023, he would say stuff like, you know, yeah, there's the war on white people in the West.
And he was increasingly talking like that.
And at the same time, people who were supposedly radicals who define themselves as far right, you know, they were saying, oh, well, you know, these people are white boys and creek shitters and hicks.
And, you know, it's like, it's like as the pro-white rhetoric became fashionable in the mainstream right, a lot of people decided just out of sheer anti-social tendency that they were going to embrace like the anti-white rhetoric that was you know the conservatives old gig.
And it's just, I don't know.
This week has really like driven that home where people can do a complete backflip 180 on Antifa.
Oh, ANSIF is not our enemy.
You know, there's a small.
Well, look at this, Brad.
Let me put it this way.
Remember Richard Spencer?
Remember Haas Rager?
Remember all these people?
My hamlight.
Oh, I remember.
Remember all of these people, and they've passed into oblivion.
But we were always trying to change, you know, make friends and influence people and get people to think like us.
All right, we got to go.
Now we are mainstream.
We got to take a break.
We'll be right back.
Brad Griffin, occidentaldescent.com.
I mean, those guys said some good things to it.
Did some good things too.
We'll be right back.
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All right, we are back with Brad Griffin, and I'll tell you why we are back with Brad Griffin.
I called Brad yesterday.
We talked for 30, 45 minutes on the phone about a lot of things, but including tonight's show.
And I said, Brad, I saw this article you posted at OD.
President Trump designates Antifa Domestic Terrorist Organization.
And of course, Brad breaks down that story, but he offers some commentary.
And I said, this commentary that you wrote there is something that this is a conversation we need to have on the radio.
I wasn't planning on having Brad back tonight until I read that.
He was, of course, again with us most recently as two weeks ago.
The question is, where did people like Charlie Kirk get their new ideas?
They got them from us.
Well, I mean, Brad and us and people like us.
Well, at least I could name names there.
I like specifically like what are the reasons that happened?
But let me read this.
This is what you write.
There is no alternative to Trumpism.
I'm going to break down this because I thought it was profound, your take here, and we'll break it down paragraph by paragraph.
It's not only profound, it's common sense.
First, the Trump administration, you write, has responded to Charlie Kirk's murder by declaring Antifa domestic terrorist organization and vowing that a more sweeping crackdown on the violent left is coming.
Conservative Incorporated is becoming more radicalized and willing to wield power to crush its enemies.
Meanwhile, the response from activists, and you can explain to the audience what you mean by that, the term activists, has been to make excuses for Antifa, to say it is better to have them around, to say that we should focus on appealing to the left and that there is no left or right.
They cling to this delusion that Kirk was murdered for being a fascist.
They are angry because the government's cracking down on Antifa, which should have happened years ago, is a distraction from their obsession with Israel.
Let's pause right there.
Israel is, and Brad, I know you would agree, a very important issue.
Jewish power and influence is a very important issue, maybe the most important issue.
However, to focus only on that, only on that, to the exclusion of everything else, is also missing the forest for the turning.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, Israel may be the forest.
It may be the tree.
I don't know in your analogy, but it is important.
Let's break down that right there.
But to say that Israel is the only issue, I believe that there are good things that can happen outside of that.
And they have been, and they are.
I mean, I could make a case that, yes, Trump bombed Iran.
And, you know, now if we have fixed principles, we can say, you know, that is, if Trump went to war with Iran, that would be objectively bad.
And we're not going to be contrarians where if he actually did that, we'd be like, oh, that's great because we're going to change our position in reaction to whatever Trump does.
But even there, right, since he did that, like over the summer, there has never been like, in my entire career of going back 25 years, there has not been more criticism of Israel on the right than there has been since the bombing in June.
Like the issue, the taboo on it crumbled.
And I believe it was yesterday or the other day, Netanyahu spoke in front of the United Nations.
The whole United Nations walks out on Bibi Netanyahu.
I mean, even if you look at that, there's a lot to celebrate there.
People are waking up.
Like as the ADL admits itself, over half the world dislikes Israel.
Over half of Americans are no longer pro-Israel.
There's been a tremendous change on that issue just since the end of 2023, since my youngest son was born in the hospital.
I think we can take credit for a lot of that, Clark.
Right, right.
So even if you, I mean, I was kind of like, you know, bitter over the summer, like when he did that.
I want to talk to you about that.
Yeah, but finish this thought.
I want to ask you about that.
But go ahead.
Right.
I mean, because I have fixed views.
I mean, I do know.
I've never liked Israel.
I've never supported wars in the Middle East.
But it's a good thing, you know, we didn't go all the way in.
I'll give them that.
And hopefully we'll stay out of it.
Well, just a very brief departure from what we're talking about right now because I noticed that about you, and it was a pretty abrupt about face with regards to your opinion of Trump.
Now, again, it was warranted because of the action that was taken there in June.
It was very interesting.
The timing of it all was that, Brad, you gave a great speech at our will to power conference at the end of May in South Carolina.
It was two weeks later that Trump took that action, and you had reversed your opinion in a pretty big way.
And your commentary on OD reflected that.
But now, I mean, again, you're waiting for things to happen.
And as things happen, you adjust your opinion as they do.
Exactly.
I mean, I always knew when I supported Trump last year, he would do things I would violently object to and disagree with.
Which I would vehemently hate.
We all knew he would do that.
The question at the time was how far he would go.
Now, over the summer, I mean, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, see, we have fixed views.
I mean, the Epstein, the way he handled the Epstein thing was horrible.
The attack on Iran was horrible.
And that's because we have fixed views.
We don't change our views in response to the.
We're not going to throw the baby out with a bath wall.
Well, I mean, it's as I said, right?
I mean, he can be good.
Trump can be good.
These are not mutually exclusive attributes or detriments.
He can be good on domestic issues.
He can do things we like.
And he can also be in the tank for Israel.
And he is.
And that's just something.
I mean, that's just something that you know and you deal with.
And it's widely expected that Israel is going to try to start the war up again with Iran.
And I'm sure we'll have to revisit that issue in the months ahead.
But meanwhile, I don't see how anybody could say, you know, designating Antifa a domestic terrorist organization isn't a complete and unalloyed good thing that Trump has done.
Right.
We have to give him credit for that because Antifa are objectively a sworn enemy.
Exactly.
Sure, they are.
I mean, I asked Keith before we played this clip that Ricardo Deshane had marked from Trump's speech at the UN.
I said, Keith, I mean, you know, President Pat Buchanan would have never said anything further than, you know, more than this.
You know, could you ever imagine having a president who would say and yes, do and act on things in this manner?
It's just that I think Trump has an idea of where his spiritual power is coming from, and it's coming from people like us.
Well, and well, I mean, again, going back to his campaign against Buchanan for the Reform Party nomination, which we on this program and at our conferences have documented and noted.
But Brad, I want to continue on here with this as we continue to read from your article at OD and have you break it down, the author breaking it down live and in real time tonight.
You're right, activists responded by taking Kirk's grieving widow, by excuse me, by attacking Kirk's grieving widow for being a Christian.
This highlights the fundamental flaw in their ideology.
It appeals only to weird antisocial Spurgs who have no interest in capturing power or wielding it.
It simply cannot reach outside that narrow demographic, the alienated, secular, antisocial white male to a broader audience.
What's even more damaging, though, is the ability of Conservative Incorporated to co-opt their most popular issues.
Now, this is something I agree with you on as a Christian.
This is a Christian show.
It is at once a Christian show.
It is a pro-white show.
It is a pro-Southern show because that's how I was born, and that is who I am, and that's what I'm about.
And everybody who's in it.
And those Spurgs you're talking about are basically the right-wing equivalent of Antifa.
Well, I mean, they're not really going out and doing that kind of stuff, but I think I have to go to that extreme.
What do you mean by activists, Brad?
When you say activist, you mean that as certainly.
Yeah, I should clarify that because, I mean, I know plenty of activist.
When I'm talking about activists, 99 out of 100 times, I'm talking about people who identify themselves as National Socialist activists because that's overwhelmingly the quarter where it comes from.
It's not people like Jerry Taylor.
It's not people like Peter Brimlow.
They're the people that think that if you don't offend people, you're not doing the right thing.
And it's, I mean, it's just, I get so frustrated with it because, I mean, especially, you know, attacking, you know, the widow, attacking the grieving widow.
I mean, it's just an obvious bad taste move.
And it just goes to show, like, that's why, you know, I mean, if you want my honest opinion, there's certain personality types of white people which are completely devoid in those circles.
And then there's other personality types that are like dramatically overrepresented.
The sociopaths, for example.
And that attitude is just, you can see why.
I mean, I just thought that was a poignant example.
Well, and again, and again, everything is nuanced.
I mean, you know, this whole thing about, you know, yes, there is an obsession with Israel there that sort of makes the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Israel is an important issue.
Jewish power and influence is an important issue.
Even to call them national socialists, well, I mean, you know, what does that mean?
I mean, we certainly take a contrarian view.
We certainly take a view here on this program that wouldn't be welcome in any sixth grade history class.
I'd be going to tell you that.
I need to make an important point on that.
Much of Europe and Canada has essentially embraced anti-Zionism now, right?
Much of, I think the UK recognized the Palestinian state, right?
And has criticized Israel and opposed Israel.
Yeah, but they're also knocking people's doors in and arresting them for mean racist tweets.
Like the idea that that's the one issue, the be-all, end-all, is, you know, if you believe that, you know, the great UK or Canada would be a great place to live right now.
I'll tell you, Keith, this is where we can work in an oldie analogy.
As the monkey said, it's a little bit me, it's a little bit you.
Right?
I mean, you know, there is good and there's bad and there's nuance.
And again, I said, Brad, with the people who are actually providing the energy on the right, there's no space in that quarter for people who believe that the good guys won World War II.
I mean, there is a lot of awakening on this issue.
Certainly, since Pat Buchanan wrote his book, Churchill Hitler and the Unnecessary War, which was really avant-garde back then and edgy.
I mean, it's almost a common sense position here to question, you know, World War II and Holocaust mythology.
But that's not what you're saying.
You're not suggesting that because they are right about that issue, that they are wrong about that, that there is something wrong about that.
What you're saying is that with these activists, that by making that your only issue and I won't even concede that that's the only issue.
I believe if Trump completely came out and denounced Israel, they would change their position again.
They would find something about it.
They would find someone criticizing.
That's right.
Well, that's what we'll talk about.
Wielding power.
How do we get power?
How do we put our chips on the table and bargain and take a piece of it for ourselves?
We'll talk with Brad about that, but we've got a five-minute break.
Stay tuned.
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President Trump is asking the U.S. Supreme Court to uphold his order on birthright citizenship.
President Donald Trump is asking the Supreme Court to uphold his order declaring that children born to parents in the U.S. illegally or temporarily are not American citizens.
Lower court judges have blocked the Trump administration's citizenship restrictions from taking effect anywhere.
Any decision on whether the high court would take up the case is probably months away.
On the first day of Trump's second term, he signed an executive order that would upend more than 125 years of understanding that anyone born in the U.S. is a U.S. citizen, according to the Constitution's 14th Amendment.
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Fresh Realm, the food producer that distributed the products, says tests show that pasta and the meatball meals may be contaminated with the same bacteria tied to a recall of chicken fettuccine Alfredo this summer.
That outbreak killed three people and sickened at least 17.
Keith Peters, Washington.
The clock is ticking on a government shutdown, and the White House says there may be mass firings if it happens.
President Trump canceled a scheduled meeting with top Democrats last week to discuss resolving a standoff over a temporary funding measure.
Congress has just three days left to agree on a stopgap bill to keep the government fully funded passed this Tuesday.
More on these stories at townhall.com.
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And we are back.
And we are back with Brad Griffin, the Luther Enjoyer.
I'm back on Twitter now, as you know, Brad, and thank you for helping me give a boost, give a boost when I got back a few days ago, a couple of weeks ago, however long it's been, less than a month.
But you can follow Brad at Luther Enjoyer, and he is talking about the real Martin Luther at Luther Enjoyer.
And I always enjoy your takes, Brad, on Twitter as well.
And I will tell you, my friend, I have actually been to the little city in Germany where Luther was tried.
And it is still, well, I have, you know, it was about 20 years ago now, before I was married, but it was still then as picturesque as you could imagine.
This little town on the Rhine, right out of a postcard or a it's just an incredible thing.
And that's we fight to preserve it all.
But at Luther Enjoyer, they're on Twitter.
And anyway, Brad, great to have you back tonight.
Oh, thanks.
I appreciate it.
What do you want to talk about?
Well, let's talk about this.
Let's talk about this very quickly.
We were talking about what you call activists, and we were talking about not focusing on any singular thing and just looking at things on a balance.
And, well, let's talk about this for a moment.
Let's go back to your talk in May at TPC's conference that the Conservative Citizens Foundation played a huge part in making happen.
And we can't mention everybody who was there, but when it comes to wielding power, when it comes to why do any of us do what we do, let's get back to that conversation.
You know, what would you say about that particular conference and the gathering of speakers that we assembled and how it is now being wielded into taking our side to the next level?
Because you're taking real political power.
You know, some of the things we're working on behind the scenes that we can't share with the audience right now, Brad, but hopefully soon we'll be able to.
So talk about all of that.
Vis-a-the-V, the other side.
Yeah, because the conference was spectacular.
And, you know, I was, you know, this was at, this was, you know, at height of Trump's unblemished first six months in office when I gave that speech.
You know, he got like off track during the summer.
And the reason, you know, I said in that article that there's no alternative to Trumpism is because whenever he does get off track, dips in the polls, you know, people are getting negative.
They just, it seems like it just lurches even further in our direction.
And we saw that over August with the, you know, you remember the reaction to Arena Zarutska's murder in Charlotte?
And the North Carolina legislature actually got off its bum and passed Arena's law to, you know, crack down on cashless bail and stuff like that in North Carolina.
And, you know, President Trump was waving her picture in the Oval Office like a bloody shirt.
So the reason there's no alternative to Trumpism is because, I mean, as soon as you, you know, you step off the train, it's done like taking, it's done gone 100 more miles in your direction, you know, by declaring Antifa a terrorist organization, you know, completely.
This is what I was talking about.
They keep co-opting our issues.
And, you know, they've actually co-opted our own enemy now.
They've made it their enemy.
And some people now, because of that, don't say Antifa's not the enemy.
But it's just going to keep marching further in our direction.
Go ahead.
What I was going to say is this.
Think back at what happened at Columbia University and some other Ivy League universities where the people that were the advocates of, for example, in Michigan, there are communities that are adopting Sharia law for the law of their county or their city.
Now, Trump wanted to get those people out of the country because they were offensive or dangerous to Jews.
Well, quite frankly, if that's the reason, let it happen.
You know, we'll take care of that group today, and next year, let's take care of Jewish power and influence.
But, you know, you've got to be willing to accept what you can get.
You know, we need to, you can't say, I'm not going to support Trump until he does everything that I want him to do.
And those are the people that are dangerous and counterproductive to our overall well-being.
I completely, yeah, I mean, I completely agree.
I mean, it's frustrating and as maddening as some of the stuff Trump has done over the summer, looking specifically at the Epstein thing and the Iran strike.
Still, you know, he managed to still he manages to bounce back like on the crime issue, on Antifa.
There's still a lot of room for good, you know, even like when you're ready to write him off.
Getting back to the whole point of this, exactly what you're saying there.
Again, I go back to your piece at OD.
Today you have Benny Johnson and Matt Walsh calling for a national emergency, mass arrests, and pressuring Trump to put Antifa into concentration camps.
Mainstream conservatism continues to advance our most popular issues and talking points.
Activists, as you call them, repudiate their old positions, and this is key.
Because everything, a lot of the things Trump and conservatism so-called is doing today are the things that in 2016, when it was all still ahead of us in the Trumpian era, these people were, this was their wildest dream.
But as you right now, they repudiate their old positions out of an antisocial, contrarian, reflexive posture.
When conservative figures like Charlie Kirk started saying there is a war on white people in America, activists started dumping on rural whites.
When conservatives started demanding that Trump crush Antifa, activists rushed to their defense.
Psychologically speaking, Brad, how do you reconcile that?
You know, I mean, as I said earlier, I think it's just a temperament.
I think some people want to be like permanently depressed, always contrarian, you know, always, you know, thumbing their nose.
Yeah, they want to be permanent outsiders.
And then no matter how the mainstream right redefines itself.
And what I was getting at in that article is that not only has the mainstream right redefined itself to unbelievably to include like pro-white rhetoric to waving around Arena Zarutska's beautiful white shield-baden martyr who was struck down by a black criminal or crushing Antifa.
Not only that, but the fringe reacts to that.
I should say everyone, but like some people whose temperament is just antisocial and contrarian, they cast aside their old positions and redefine themselves against whatever is going on to be the permanent outsider is really talking about it.
Well, I mean, Brad.
No, no, no, but this is key.
Because you and I are contemporaries.
We are in the same season of life.
We are in the same stage.
We are nearly the same age.
We have wives.
We have kids in the nest at home.
And we've been a part of this our entire adult lives.
It isn't as though one of us joined this thing 20 years ago and the other two or three years ago.
We've grown up together.
And again, I say, I mean, could you have imagined 20 years ago, we're about to celebrate our 21st year on the air, and I've been in this a quarter of a century this morning.
I mean, but could you have 20 years ago imagined it actually realizing itself in this way and us finding ways or some of our folks finding ways to wielding real political power?
Well, we're going to talk about that.
We haven't even really gotten to that yet.
We're about to get to that, but people would still find a way to be upset about where we are now comparing.
Here's the way I put it on X.
I said, can you imagine going back 20 years ago to the year 2005 to Stormfront Forum or VNN Forum or your show, Political Sessable, and telling your previous self 20 years younger that one day the President of the United States, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense were going to declare an anti-domestic terrorist organization.
It was going to use the full force of the federal government to crush them, and that people would be somehow disappointed and saying, you know, oh, this is a bad thing.
Can you imagine telling your, can you imagine like trying to explain that to yourself 20 years ago?
Never, never.
Everything blows the mind.
I posted a picture on my very new, you know, I never got reinstated.
Brad, how many, I don't even know how many accounts you're on now.
How many times have you come back to Twitter?
I've only come back once.
You've come back like a Return of the Living Dead marathon.
This is the second one I've had since Elon took over, and that's because the first one was banned by as soon as he got after he got rid of Yoel Ross, that's when I've made this current account, and it's laughed at ever since.
So he was the problem at X.
Well, yeah, I don't even know.
I mean, it's all arbitrary and it's nonsensical, but I'm back now after two and a half years, and we still have got a fraction of the following.
But listen, it's a good time.
And it really is amazing to see how far everything has gone.
The conversation, I mean, especially if you go back 20 years and you say this is what's going to be happening 20 years from now.
I would have thought we would have won or had won everything.
Speaking of the debate, and this is another point, the debate over, you know, what should our strategy be?
Should it be tried to make our ideas more mainstream or it should be, you know, building a compound somewhere and waiting for the turn of Hitler?
Yeah, we don't even have to do that.
But I mean, doesn't this settle the question that like where the mainstream right takes ANSIFAR, our enemy, and defines it as their enemy and is willing to go all out, like full force the government to crush them.
Doesn't that prove that, you know, we can like convince people to embrace our perspective, that we can persuade people that our ideas, you know, to be taken up.
I mean, if that doesn't like settle the question, I don't know what does.
Well, what I was going to say is this: as long as you're polite and rational and thoughtful and you present our ideas in that context, you will change the conversation.
Your ideas will become mainstream.
That's what the past is, the past 10 years has shown.
Okay, there are several things I want to get to.
I've got several pages of notes here that we're not going to be able to get to, but I have to hit on a couple of things.
Where things are going, even the Jewish question, yes, the Jewish question and trends there.
But this whole thing, we have to be clear.
Being absorbed into the Republican Party is not our destination.
It's not the worst thing in the world either.
Well, no, I mean, well, it could be.
I mean, depending on the situation, but it is, that's not our terminus.
I am for, Brad, I have said consistently, I'm for advancing every opportunity.
I am a southerner.
Of course, I am a secessionist.
And we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
If we don't have an opportunity to wield state power, if we have an opportunity to wield state power against our enemies, then I'm for a strong centralized government.
I am for whatever works, whatever is best for our people.
And that can include trying a couple of different tactics or even several different tactics simultaneously.
But with regards to wielding power, how does an activist come to power?
How does someone who operates a web zine or a radio program or a podcast or whatever, an advocacy group, how do we affect any sort of positive change for our people except to build ourselves up to the point where they need us or that we are influencing them.
And I see that as the case now.
I think I saw it as the case earlier this year at our conference where we had, I mean, these incredible, this really incredible lineup of speakers that I haven't seen anybody else bring together mixed with people like you and others, you know, Sam Dixon and others who were there speaking simultaneously.
It seems like something is happening right now.
I mean, for your old guard, is it part of it?
You know, they haven't been shut out of our order.
We are the old guard.
I mean, they are us and we are them.
But, I mean, articulate what I'm trying to drive at, Brad.
For the people who weren't there at that conference in May and where we are now and what we're working on, you know, that project we're working on that we talked about a couple of, you know, yesterday.
Where is all this going?
And is it real?
It's completely real.
I mean, we've, I mean, we go on about, you know, how the Overton window is moved and how things are possible now that, you know, weren't possible.
I mean, but I mean, even when we talked about it two weeks ago, you know, I said that the Kirk shooting, you know, it was the most radic, it's going to be the most radicalizing event of my adult lifetime.
And we haven't even begun to see, glimpse the fallout of how much that radicalized people.
And so this is what that's one of the reasons I said in that article, there's no alternative to Trumpism because Trumpism is just going to like the rate it's radicalizing is going to eclipse any kind of alternative you have in your mind that you're going to go out and create.
I mean, by the time you even get that off the ground, like Trumpism will have gone to work 10 in terms of radicalizing.
And so what do you think?
Do you think there might be any kind of violent resistance by NCFOs or the government?
What's going to happen?
Well, I mean, we can only hope.
Well, I mean, there already has been.
If they start getting shot, there's blood in the streets, something that could be happening while we're speaking.
I haven't checked.
X.
Well, I mean, yeah, it's all happening in real time right now, hour by hour.
We missed something.
And, well, I would ask you that.
I would sort of turn that question back around to you.
People would say, well, Trump hasn't done enough.
It's been two weeks now since Kirk's assassination.
There should be doors knocked down.
I can't necessarily disagree with that, but I do also understand things do take a little bit of time to organize.
I mean, do you believe that we will actually see, Lou Moore was talking about this, and he was brilliant about this on that panel discussion two weeks ago.
The things that they could do, what they should do, what we hope they might do, and what they're likely to do.
Well, I mean, you know, so where does it all, where does it intersect?
I mean, what do you think we will actually see?
Because that's going to be a big tell because they've got all the political capital and momentum in the world.
Yeah, let's discuss that executive order.
Not the executive.
It was the executive order that declared ANCIF domestic terrorism.
But that memorandum, which was released the other day, I think the day before yesterday, is even more important.
It spells out that, you know, even NGOs like the Southern Poverty Law Center that engage in organized doxing campaigns are domestic terrorists and they're going to be dismantled.
So the scope of what Stephen Miller set out in that presidential memorandum goes far beyond The most face of it, like violent street thugs in Portland, Oregon.
I mean, it's sweeping that thing he put out the other day.
So he's proposing a sweeping crackdown.
So do you believe that the president is operating in good faith on behalf of issues that would benefit us?
And that is the unapologetic, unadulterated, pro-white movement that we have been a part of, Brad, again?
Yeah, I would say that there's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Charlie, they took the people in charge, like Stephen Miller and Trump, and they took Charlie Kirk's assassination personally.
This isn't some kind of gambit to distract attention or some kind of conspiracy to take attention away from Israel.
No, they took that like that killing Kirk like that.
He was basically family to them.
They took that personally and they're reacting emotionally to this.
And they really do intend to completely use every ounce of power at their disposal to crush these people.
It was like a proposal.
Yeah, I mean, this was, Kirk was basically like family to Trump.
And they really are reacting emotionally.
This is not some kind of scheme.
I mean, they struck at the heart of power there.
That was the final straw for Trump's inner circle.
Well, we can hope.
And time will tell, and we can hope, and we can admit that we may be disappointed.
The courts are going to weigh in on this.
They're going to try to chew it up.
We all know that's going to happen.
But I still do think Stephen Miller and Trump will use everything that they have at their disposal to crush these people.
And Trump has been doing good at the Supreme Court level.
I want to read one more thing that you wrote with regard to the Jewish question.
You write that it is going through a similar shift.
It is gradually becoming mainstream on the right to be critical of Israel.
Charlie Kirk epitomized the shift from being a Zionist gatekeeper in which support for Zionism was a litmus test from being a respectable conservative to allowing so-called both sides to argue about Israel at his turning point USA conferences.
He refused to throw Tucker under the bus for his donors.
Kirk himself opposed the Iran strike earlier this summer before falling in line to maintain his standing.
You conclude, Brad, by writing, it used to be edgy to talk about the Jewish question and to criticize Israel, but now Israel's public image has taken such a beating that the so-called dissident space is full of people who are saying outlandish things to harvest and monetize engagement.
This is another example.
French has a bad set of issues.
Yeah, I mean, you got to think like, I mean, the polls, the ADL itself collect, you know, over half the world dislikes Israel right now.
So think about that's your market.
Over half the people on earth, and even over half of Americans dislike Israel.
So the bottom of the market is a little bit more than that.
Did you see that 20 years ago?
I mean, again, things can ebb and flow a little bit on a trajectory, but if you look at it at a five-year or a 10-year or a 20-year pace, you have to admit that things are moving in another direction.
Yeah, two years.
I mean, yeah, my son, I remember when October 7th happened, because my little boy was born in the hospital like a week or two, like a week or two, I was watching the response from Israel when he was born in the room at the hospital when he was born.
He's not even two years old yet.
And that just goes to show how there's been that tremendous shift of opinion against Israel.
It's only two years old, less than two years old.
And that's how fast things are moving.
And like I said, like we were talking about on Twitter, like it's moved so fast now that the incentive is to say there's a huge market for saying completely schizo schizo things, right?
Brad, I mean, Brad, I mean, we talk, we all love Pat.
Trump is going further than that.
I mean, there was this clip about him sort of insinuating that, you know, look, I mean, we just may have to kill these immigrants.
I mean, he didn't say that, but I mean, you could insinuate that.
You could read between the lines and infer him thinking that, Keith.
Well, the thing I'd like to talk about is one of the things I'm not willing to give up on is the potential secession.
You know, what would happen if we seceded?
America would be half as large, half as likely to get involved in these foreign adventures, and more likely to be like, you know, something more like Australia in terms of international influence and America.
And quite frankly, I see all those as good things.
I do not want to get involved in everybody else's business.
I do not want America to throw its weight around in behalf of Jewish power and influence or anyone else, Muslim power and influence.
I want us to do that.
That's where the enemy, that's where our real opposition is going to come from.
There are people on the right that want to be a powerful country.
Me, you, particularly.
Me, you and Brad are southern nationalists at heart.
We are southerners.
We are proud southerners.
We are proud descendants of Confederate veterans.
But the only people that think about seceding right now is the left.
It's California.
You know, they should secede if you have power.
They should have took us up on our offer like when we made it like in 2014.
Yeah, in 1861.
Yeah, that's right.
I'm afraid if they get power again, we really wish we could because they'll be sending people like us to the gulag.
Well, that's exactly right.
But we always knew that.
And so, again, I mean, I say, yes, I am for secession.
I'm a southern nationalist.
There's no doubt about it.
But at the same time, if we have the upper hand, I want to see a centralized state government crush the, as Kevin Deanna put it two weeks ago, crush the spine of our enemies.
Kevin Deanna said, if you have political power, you've got to use it.
It's not my ideal solution.
It's like my second or third or fourth solution, but whatever.
You know, at the end of the day, what we're looking for is what works for our people.
How do you wield power?
How do you parlay our web zines and our publications and our programs and our networks and our communities and our conferences and our whatever into actual change?
Well, I think you do it by being trustworthy, by building trust and growing relationships, and then by latching on to people, not latching on like a leech, but by working with people who have an opportunity to take you to the next level.
Brad, I think that's what we're doing here.
I mean, you know some things we're working on behind the scenes.
The music is playing occidentaldescent.com.
Do you believe, I mean, we talked about this yesterday.
Do you believe that there are things working that the audience does not know about yet that could potentially be a very big thing for our side?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
We've passed the point where we're mainstream.
We should just go after power now.
That's been our focus for last year, too.
That's it.
We use that power to defeat our enemies.
Of course.
I mean, what else would you use it for?
Thank you, Brad Griffin.
Always good to talk to you.
And it's occidentaldescent.com.
I'm there every day.
And Brad has been an integral part of our team here at TPC and a great personal friend.