The Political Cesspool - James Edwards - Radio Show Hour 2

Aug. 17, 2025 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards

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Radio Show Hour 2 – 2025/08/16

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	You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
	The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
	And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
	And welcome back, everybody.
	The second hour of tonight's special three-hour live broadcast with Eric Orwald in studio in Memphis as we broadcast this Saturday evening, August the 16th continues now.
	And we're going to bring in my friend and co-host and colleague Keith Alexander for the rest of the program.
	Keith, you were here listening intently when Jared was on and with the first hour with Eric.
	And we're just getting started tonight, so I'll turn it over to you, my friend.
	Thank you, James.
	Now, am I coming through loud and clear?
	You don't have your headset on, but you're grouped.
	Yeah, let me just ask you this, Eric.
	We have focused on the racial aspects of this community, but you have other requirements and other characteristics you're looking for in potential inhabitants of your place.
	Tell us what you're looking for in potential inhabitants so that we can figure out exactly what this is all about.
	Yeah, of course.
	We do want to keep it a big tent so that different groups who also value their European heritage can all have a place and also share resources, legally speaking, making it easier to lobby for our interests as a block.
	And if one of our communities is sued, we'll have this big fund that we can all help each other.
	So for that reason, we think a big tent is a good way to go.
	So we're welcoming of Christians as well as European pagans.
	So there's no one religious denomination that we all subscribe to.
	We all believe in traditional European values.
	And when you ask, you know, what does that mean exactly?
	What you see in the traditional European religious and philosophical texts, you know, there's a lot of continuity between the morality of Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, what you see in Marcus Aurelius, right?
	What you see in Christianity, what you see in a Norse pagan document like the Habamal.
	There is a shared sense of what it means to be a virtuous person in this world that comes from our shared Indo-European roots, as well as our shared roots in the Neolithic farmer civilization.
	And I think because we have such continuity of ancestry, we have this beneath the level of any one ideology, we have a shared sense of virtue and what's right that we try to appeal to.
	Now, it's hard to pin down.
	So on particular issues, we'll say, you know, for example, you can't support LGBT lifestyles and be for traditional European values.
	Clearly, you have to be for monogamy and a traditional nuclear family, things like that.
	Would a Muslim be welcomed into your community?
	We only accept people who practice traditional European religions or loose agnosticism.
	By the same token, if you were a militant atheism, an atheist rather, we would see that as foreign to the European tradition.
	Would communists be welcomed into your organization?
	Well, I mean, that's a political ideology.
	We don't really have a lipnist test for political views.
	Most of us obviously are conservative.
	I'm not well researched enough into communism to infer whether there's some kind of social policy or value system baked into it.
	Maybe there is.
	I can say we don't have any communists.
	And if one did show up, we'd have to consider it very carefully.
	No, I didn't expect to.
	But then, on the other hand, you know, are you looking for a, for example, a prototypical southern white fundamentalist, or are you looking for casting a broader net?
	Is there any particular groups that would be disqualified out of hand?
	We're looking for free white people of good character.
	Just like the founding fathers are looking for.
	Just like the founding fathers.
	All right.
	Well, we have this comment that is.
	That actually begs a question I wanted to ask you.
	This is sort of trivial in terms of everything, comparatively speaking, with everything else we've been covering and will continue to cover.
	But living in the South, what do you think about the weather today?
	Oh, man.
	Mention a sore subject.
	It's fine.
	I mean, it's hot in Southern California.
	I'm used to the heat.
	I'm not used to this humidity.
	I just have to take breaks in the shade.
	That's all.
	Well, you know, it sounds to me, Eric, that what you want is exactly what the founding fathers prescribed as, you know, requirements for citizenship.
	You're looking for a person who, you know, is has traditional, you know, what were the requirements, James?
	I was just thinking about that.
	It's 21.
	Well, you're a holder of property and not a convict of a felony, basically, right?
	Right.
	And we do background checks.
	So if you've had like a drunk driving incident when you were, you know, 20 and you're 35, it's not necessarily a deal breaker, but we do look at that.
	We have a comment here.
	I don't know if this is a question or a comment, but this is one we pulled earlier from a listener who is tuned in right now from Arkansas, Dumas, Arkansas.
	White people must realize, this is a comment he wants me to share with you.
	White people must realize that we are not here to save the United States because it's terminal.
	We are here to save a portion of our race so that a future renaissance of our people becomes possible.
	He actually writes a little bit more, and I'm going to read that as well, but I think that's a good stopping point.
	I mean, have you considered that?
	I mean, is that something that resonates?
	Agree or disagree?
	Well, yeah.
	When I first became aware of the state of our demographics, it became immediately evident that we cannot save the whole country.
	And past a certain point, if things remain on their present course, which it seems like they will, we're going to have a uniparty.
	So a political solution at a national scale is very difficult to envision.
	And the only way I think to get there is by first focusing on saving some portion of our race, fortifying ourselves in strongholds where we control our own education, we can lift each other up economically and then build up the real political power to one day kind of return at a national scale.
	But there's a lot that we can do in the private sphere.
	You know, before you set about trying to create the perfect state from the top down, why don't you create a working neighborhood?
	And if you can do that, then build up to a town, then build up to a city.
	You know, we don't really have skilled administrators just yet.
	We don't have a ready administration, even if we did take power.
	All right.
	He continues on with this, and then we'll toss it back over to Keith.
	The idea that we're going to save America from sea to shining sea is a fantasy.
	Whole portions of the United States are lost to us forever, such as the American Southwest and even parts of the deep south.
	But I would rather live in a smaller, racially homogenous nation than I would a huge heterogeneous empire like the United States.
	My ideal ethnostate is a combination of Irania and Switzerland with the homogeneity of Iceland.
	Well, I think you're getting close to that, right, up there in Sharp County.
	Yeah, we'll have to grow quite a bit to match that scale, but absolutely.
	I think a network of white intentional communities across the South where, you know, there's a political climate that won't try to shut down these movements and where, in general, it will be fairly warmly received by the local people.
	You can't try to do this in an all-blue area for the sake of being sued, but also because you don't want to be somewhere where your neighbors don't want you there.
	You know, we have to move into these key areas that are already receptive to it.
	But just imagine if we had, you know, 12 or more of these little settlements and we got together for big conferences or maybe a sporting event.
	We have our own Olympics.
	And these are all young people and families who have been online.
	We're a fairly young movement.
	I mean, older people, of course, are welcome as well.
	But we have been online.
	We have access to all these new tools and resources, AI.
	We can start experimenting with how we're educating our children.
	A lot of us are in tech.
	So just imagine these kind of prosperous, high-tech settlements sprinkled throughout the South that change the culture over time and create their own kind of network effect.
	Basically, what you're talking about is putting the civil rights movement into reverse, which was based on outlawing and gaslighting white people about racial segregation.
	Basically, segregation is normal and natural.
	Everybody does it.
	Birds with a feather flock together.
	But the civil rights movement was based on outlawing that for white people, but only for white people.
	Now, how can we, you know, create a new awareness about the rights of white people being the same as others?
	Yeah, there is a lot of confusion on this issue.
	When people think about the Civil Rights Act, they think about the Fair Housing Act.
	Immediately they think that non-white people have been discriminated against.
	They've been kept out of the housing market and so forth.
	And so, therefore, we can't have these communities for the sake of these marginalized groups.
	But we've gone from one extreme to the other, and there's a middle point that we have to clarify for people.
	Return to the land.org.
	That's what you need to know right now.
	We do have to take this break.
	We will take it, and we'll be back in two minutes with more of your questions and comments and much more conversation.
	We're not even halfway done yet.
	Stay tuned, folks.
	We'll be right back.
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	Well, we're back with Eric Orwell, of course, and he will be with us for the remainder of the night.
	Still so much more to get into, and I'm having a great time.
	I'm having a great time in conversation with this man.
	I'm having a great time listening to him explain his vision.
	I have heard him do that several times now on other programs, and it's great to have him doing it here tonight on ours.
	But Keith mentioned in the break as we were talking off the air about how the establishment or the enemy or the media or whomever have gaslighted white people about segregation.
	And it makes me go back to my first time on CNN back in 2007.
	This was this hour-long roundtable discussion.
	I was there with Jesse Lee Peterson and then on the other side, two black people.
	This was Paula Zahn.
	And the entire show was about segregation, self-segregation in schools, self-segregation in churches, self-segregation in communities for a full hour, prime time.
	And of course, I was there to basically defend the concept.
	Of course, it makes perfect sense.
	The word segregation has become so toxic, you wouldn't want to say, you know, I'm a segregationist, but in fact, you know, I am.
	I don't have a problem saying it because I'm just a talk radio host.
	But, you know, it is important to choose your terms and your packaging carefully.
	But when it boils down, when everything else fades away and you boil down to the bottom line, why wouldn't you want to live with people that you have something in common with?
	Why should you be forced to live in a community where everyone has conflicting visions?
	It was Jared Taylor, Eric, who once made the quote years ago.
	And I have committed it to memory and used it ever since.
	The history of race relations can be summed up in one word, and that word is conflict.
	You will have conflict if you are forced to live or share living space with people who don't share common heroes, common language, common faith, common folkways, common music, common anything.
	You know, that is not a pathway or a recipe for harmony.
	Your type of vision is certainly closer to a harmonious vision than that.
	I don't know if you want to use the word segregation, but it makes perfect sense that you would want to live with people that share common visions, common values.
	Well, of course, according to the basic meaning of the term, we're all segregationists, right?
	Everyone puts themselves in a neighborhood where they feel comfortable, whether that's based on segregation by wealth or by race or by culture.
	Koreans, when they move, religion, yeah.
	Koreans, when they move into the country, tend to want to live around other Koreans.
	The same for all these other ethnic groups.
	If it's not race, it's something.
	The same for the term discrimination, right?
	Discriminating means being able to discern differences between categories.
	If you don't let people discriminate on any basis, don't let them segregate on other basis.
	What do you have?
	Disorder by definition.
	If you want to order things and organize things, then you put things where they belong in these groups, in these categories.
	And we have to do with people too.
	People naturally segregate.
	And quite frankly, it's ironic, but the two groups that really drove the civil rights movement, Jewish power and influence and blacks, have the strongest segregationist instincts of any group.
	That's true.
	Yeah, I mean, there are Jewish communities all over the world, have been.
	I mean, how did they survive as a diaspora people for 2,000 years without a state?
	Because they self-segregated time and time again.
	Ghettos were not enforced upon Jewish people.
	Jewish people enforced ghettos on themselves because they wanted birds of a feather flock together.
	They like manipulating language.
	So for that reason, I tend not to use the term segregation.
	I agree.
	I agree 100%.
	It should not be used.
	No, no, no, no.
	I say that.
	I mean, you know, we're talking about the exact same thing.
	It's not a word that's going to play well.
	And it is important to package yourself in a way that sells, in a way that, you know, for whites especially, you have to have the moral high ground, as you know.
	But yes, indeed.
	I mean, the Jews, I mean, look at Israel as an apartheid state.
	I mean, it's just a wonderful thing for them.
	And, you know, I wonder if it might not be a bad thing for us as well.
	But in any event, yes.
	Yes, a thousand times over on that question.
	And, you know, they're also committing genocide in Israel against strangers in their midst.
	Now, we wouldn't go that far, but on the other hand, we think that it's natural and normal for people to seek to live among their own people and to seek to build communities that reinforce their traditional values.
	And I don't think we should apologize for that.
	I think, in fact, it's going to be raised whether we raise it or not.
	So we might as well be prepared for it.
	Well, sure.
	Yeah.
	I like to emphasize free association because it's talking about the same thing, but just inherently putting this spin on the issue: are groups of people free to voluntarily group together to protect their identity, protect their values, or are they not?
	And if the establishment really says no to free association, what is the implication?
	It means we are not free.
	If you're free as an individual to decide what kind of toothpaste you want to use, but you're not free as a group to have a community that reflects your values, that's a fake freedom.
	All right.
	I want to go back to this that we were reading from earlier.
	We've got a lot of other people that we need to get to in terms of questions.
	Now, let me find it.
	Just to, this was the comment from the listener in Arkansas.
	We're going to give him special privileges tonight because that's where you are in Arkansas.
	And he writes, I've been to Iceland and Switzerland and I've seen how a future white ethnostate could function in the world.
	After all, if I have to pick between saving the United States or saving a portion of our people as a foundation of a future white ethnostate, the United States loses.
	And I agree with that.
	I consider myself a white man first and a European first and whatever else we are.
	A southerner second and an American third.
	But that's just me.
	That's just me speaking for myself and not for Eric and not for his community.
	But this listener in Arkansas writes, I would rather live in a white ethnostate than a heterogeneous empire that makes war on the entire world while simultaneously inviting the entire world to come live here.
	All these are great points.
	Thank you for your comments.
	But I think, again, what he writes is important with regards to an ethnostate.
	People idealize a future ethnostate.
	You're not going to have that until you first have at least one community.
	Am I right?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	If you want to organize at that scale, you need the ability to have organizations.
	And right now, we don't even have lobbying groups.
	We don't have think tanks.
	We have a few media programs, such as yours, you know, excellent media programs because our freedom of speech is very secure in the United States.
	But our freedom to organize is under severe threat.
	And so unless we push back and go ahead and try establishing the organizations that we can legally establish, we will never start operating in a larger scale.
	We're getting some great questions in real time from the audience tuned in live.
	And this is a great one.
	I hadn't even considered asking you this myself, but we were sort of touching on this a little bit before during the pre-show.
	And that is conflicts and infighting amongst even people who subscribe to a lot of our beliefs, people in our ranks.
	And this is a question.
	Intentional communities are usually based on shared beliefs and values.
	Take Orthodox Jews, for example.
	This listener writes.
	We see how divided white nationalists are online.
	How does Return to the Land handle internal conflict?
	Sure.
	I mean, of course, we've already had our fair share.
	People have a tendency when you're not.
	And I want to just say, it's not unique to people who share our beliefs.
	This is just human nature.
	You get any group of people.
	If you get the Lions Club or the Rotary Club, you're going to have conflict because that's just human nature.
	Human nature is to accentuate the negative.
	Unfortunately.
	If your goal is to create a community with no drama or friction, you're never going to have a community.
	That's just the way it is.
	But we've talked about conflict resolution procedures.
	One really important thing when you have a large number of people in an organization is that you don't tolerate just back channel communication gossip that sometimes sullies people's character behind their back.
	So our policy is if you have an issue with another member, you address them first.
	You know, go to your brother first.
	That's biblical.
	I mean, that's in the Gospels.
	Yeah, that's absolutely in the Gospels too.
	If you have a conflict with a brother, go to your brother first.
	If that conflict cannot be resolved, go back with two or three other brothers.
	And if it cannot be resolved, still you take it to the church.
	Now, this is, of course, from a Christian perspective, that's in the New Testament.
	But to your point, and I don't know if that's a novel thing to Christianity.
	It's just common sense.
	Right.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I think it's a good practice.
	And I am a Christian and endorse that because it's a Christian teaching, but also because it's just common sense.
	Of course, if you have an issue with someone, why wouldn't you give them the respect of bringing it out into the open?
	And once that happens, if the behavior persists, then we say go to the board of managers.
	And the board of managers will then try to mediate the situation.
	And if the behavior persists or the problem persists on either end, well, then it's fair game to bring it up at a public meeting, but not to just start telling people arbitrarily about the issue from your perspective.
	Because one thing I've learned is that when people have issues, they're not telling the full story.
	No one is telling the full story.
	You only get the full story when there's open discourse.
	So, in our public meetings, if one of these issues has gone through that initial phase, the board has intervened, and things are still persistent, then we have a public discussion about it, and everyone's allowed to say their piece.
	You know, this is radio, not television, and so people can hear us, not see us, but I can see you.
	And you may be, in fact, and this is a Christian program.
	This has always been something we've talked about every Easter and every Christmas.
	We bring the message from the gospels, and this is just part of our identity here on the radio.
	But you, my friend, may be my favorite type of Christian, a Christian wearing a drazzle t-shirt.
	So, this is, you know, Eric the Red and King Olaf.
	And, you know, there's a rich tradition there, too.
	And this is something that, you know, has been a part of our European tradition.
	It's a beautiful thing.
	Yeah.
	And this shirt is from the Golden Ones Company.
	Highly recommend it.
	Very good.
	And by the way, you may see this shirt at your X account because I believe you may have posted a picture just a few minutes ago before we went on the air.
	Yeah, we were looking good in that one.
	We'll be right back, folks.
	Now we're at the halfway point.
	Lot more questions, lot more comments, lot more to get into with Eric Orwell.
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	The talks in Alaska may not have concluded with a ceasefire, but President Trump says he and Russia's Vladimir Putin did make great progress toward ending the war in Ukraine.
	There were many, many points that we agreed on.
	Most of them, I would say, a couple of big ones that we haven't quite got there, but we've made some headway.
	Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, meanwhile, will be meeting with President Trump Monday at the White House.
	Former Trump Deputy National Security Advisor Victoria Coates says she understands why Israel is pursuing a military solution to fight with Hamas.
	I think everyone in Israel was horrified by those videos of the hostages emaciated, digging their own graves in the terror tunnels beneath Gaza.
	Time is running out for them.
	So the notion that you're not going to go in because something might happen to the hostages, I mean, we either get them out now or we don't.
	Intelligence expert retired Colonel Tony Schaefer says anti-Semitism lies at the root of many of the European leaders' belief in a two-state solution for the Palestinians.
	And somehow these nations believe that giving some sort of a deference or recognition to Palestine, you're going to actually have a positive effect in helping the Palestinians.
	I would argue it's the opposite.
	Erin has rapidly become a category five hurricane in the Caribbean, currently north of Anguilla, winds up to 160 miles per hour.
	Forecasters say the storm is moving west, but forecast to turn northward in the coming day or two and could affect several islands, raising concerns about flooding and landslides.
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	They claim it was all very professional.
	More on these stories, townhall.com.
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	Welcome back, everybody.
	We are at the halfway point.
	Still, the second half to go, and it begins now with this question from a lady in, of all places, Springfield, Missouri, who has tuned in as we speak.
	And she writes, James, very cool that he drove all the way to Memphis.
	And she asks, Is the new facility planned in being planned in Missouri for homes or just a recreational gathering?
	That is yet to be determined.
	I would like it to be all of the above by bringing together people looking for community with people looking for a campground, something recreational, a community center with people nationwide who see that it would be to our advantage to have a shared space that we can improve over time.
	Instead of being reliant on a national park or something like that to host our events, we can build our own space.
	And every year we can see it get better.
	We can raise funds.
	We don't have to pay our money out to outside vendors and outside companies.
	We can keep it in our community.
	Now, by bringing in the residential component as well, we can make it a larger community event.
	We can support the development and also get larger pieces of land.
	You know, when you're shopping for land, you'll notice that trying to find a good five acres by itself is nearly impossible.
	If you want good land, you want to be buying 200, 300 acres.
	So, by bringing residential community together with campgrounds together with a convention center or something like that, I think we can have a space that people will want to congregate in all around the country.
	How are you navigating the exploding prices of real estate?
	We were talking about that earlier tonight off the air as well.
	The fact that in you know, five years ago, when you bought in here, the interest rates in 2020, around the time Biden was being inaugurated, were like two or three percent.
	And prices were still very reasonable compared to what they are now.
	Everything's at least at least double down here in the south from what it was only five years ago, right?
	A lot of that is driven by immigration, housing, people fleeing the blue states coming down here, and COVID had a lot to do with that.
	But you have a lot of people.
	I mean, you could sell a shack in Los Angeles for a million bucks, you know, a run-down ramshackle house for a million, two million dollars, and you can come here still and live like a king.
	Well, that's true.
	That's true.
	There's also the other kind of immigration, though, from outside of the country.
	Well, that's true, and that's increasing demand for housing specifically.
	It has not yet increased demand for real estate quite as much.
	So, it's still possible to find undeveloped land for 2,000, 3,000 an acre in some parts of the U.S.
	And that's what it's at right now.
	So, it's gone up.
	Well, and again, that's about double.
	So, I think you said five, six years ago you were buying in at $1,500 an acre, now it's $3,000.
	That's still, you know, for a lot of the country, very, very, very affordable.
	Right.
	And we have to count our blessings.
	I mean, it's 10% what it would be in some place in Europe.
	You know, it would be very difficult to try to do something like this in Europe.
	We have so much great land at a good price where we're legally allowed to develop.
	So, I think we have to really count our blessings as Americans.
	Well, one thing I was thinking about, Eric, is that I think you're going to have a hard sell getting a lot of people from the left coast moving to the south.
	There are areas in.
	I know.
	Well, the thing is, we want some of them, but we don't want most of them.
	Okay.
	And let me say this: there are affordable lands out there.
	And I was saying nobody ever talks about this.
	What about northern Nevada and places like that?
	They would seem to be ideal.
	What do you think about that?
	I was just in Nevada for the Hodge Twins podcast.
	I'm not the biggest fan of the state, but I have been to some of those areas you're talking about.
	And it would be interesting dealing with the state government in a place like Nevada.
	You know, I would rather be in Arkansas, but Nevada is very hands-off on some things.
	Well, okay, that's another question.
	So we were talking about sort of like the big three that are like ideal spots theoretically and increasingly in practice for what you're doing.
	And that's Appalachia, the Ozarks, and up there in Northern Idaho, the Pacific Northwest.
	But if you had to expand the realm, what would be a couple of other contenders?
	Keith mentioned one, but I mean, Utah, are there any other places?
	Yeah, I mean, the deep south, northern Alabama, Appalachia obviously encompasses a lot of territory.
	Maine, we've discussed Maine, even Michigan.
	The Upper Peninsula of Michigan has a lot of really great land at a very good price.
	Really?
	You can get a good price up in Michigan.
	I was just actually up there for a talk back in March or April.
	I made the mistake of going up there in August for a vacation, and we rented for the family a big condo, but we didn't counter or we didn't Expect to run into what we did, which was they're having a heat wave where the temperature is in the 90s, and nobody up there had air conditioning.
	Yeah, right.
	Well, they usually don't need it.
	The Upper Peninsula is beautiful.
	Michigan's beautiful.
	Yeah, it is.
	People sleep on that.
	I mean, you think of Michigan, you think of Detroit if you've never been, but it's just like every place else.
	I mean, you know, when I went to Michigan the last time, I drove up through Illinois.
	Illinois is just all farm country, you know, outside of Chicago.
	I mean, there's beautiful parts of this country that people sleep on.
	Yeah.
	We've all seen the maps.
	Most of this country is really thinking our way, geographically speaking.
	Not the population, but geographically speaking.
	Well, Chicago sinks Illinois, Portland sinks Oregon.
	I mean, you know, Detroit sinks Michigan.
	Well, Michigan still went for Trump, but I'm just saying, I mean, you know, most counties, but you look at the national map and it's, you know, blood red outside of, you know, the urban centers.
	Exactly.
	Go ahead.
	I was just going to say the statement I've heard is that you don't have blue states and red states.
	You have red states and red states with blue tumors called certain cities, basically.
	No, that is the case.
	You do have to think about the state government, though, because like in our case, it was the state attorney general who looked at it.
	It wasn't a county official who looked at the legality.
	And in Arkansas, and I can tell you, because I live right next door in Tennessee, Tennessee has, as far as it goes, a pretty stout-hearted and agreeable state legislature.
	And so does Arkansas, and so does Mississippi, and so does Alabama.
	Exactly.
	This is a totally different thing than some of these other states that have great counties, but you're going to get sunk on the state level.
	Right.
	We want sites all over the country so that people from California don't have to move all the way to Arkansas.
	We may even one day have some kind of community center or camp or something like that.
	Maybe not a full-time residence community, but something in California for those people.
	Because we don't just need these communities where people will raise their children.
	And we also just need places to get together and have some sense of common identity beyond just X.com and places like that.
	Well, what you have in California, as I understand it, is that all the badness is in the coastal counties.
	The interior counties tend to be red counties.
	That is true.
	Yeah.
	I mean, California was a red state in the 90s.
	But the state's still going to kill you.
	I mean, you know, you could find a county that has everything, you know, a lot, I wouldn't say everything, but you could find an agreeable county, but the state's going to kill you in California, right?
	True.
	Yeah.
	Unless you had an informal network, which I have now talked to several of these networks around the country, and I think that's a really good thing.
	You can vet people carefully over time and then know the officials in the county and know that you're not going to get pushback from the judge that might hear your case if it's informal.
	But if it's an explicit organization like ours, then yeah, it probably will go to the state government and you have to be in a friendly state.
	But then on the other hand, the fact that, see, this is a larger reality about the American federal system.
	Sovereignty is in the federal government and in the state government.
	Cities have no sovereignty of their own except what the state gives them.
	Basically, to have a city, you get a municipal certificate of incorporation like a business would be.
	And the state can revoke those.
	In fact, Memphis has had its city charter revoked once before during the yellow fever epidemic.
	And the state could do that now if they wanted to.
	See, Memphis is very unique.
	It's the only majority black city in Tennessee.
	And the reason is we're the informal capital of the Delta, both the Arkansas Delta and the Mississippi Delta, which is where all the blacks were sent because it was easy to farm.
	You didn't have to be a talented farmer and you could get big crops and you could have economies of scale.
	But see, that's what, you know, if you get into a red state that has a state legislature like James was describing here in Tennessee that's not afraid to roll up their sleeves and get busy, that's a great advantage for your type of organization.
	They can be protected by them.
	And he's got that in Arkansas.
	I mean, Tennessee is different than Illinois and Oregon, whereas, yes, we have the Tumor of Memphis, but it doesn't bring down the state legislature.
	The state legislature repeatedly defends Confederate monuments and Confederate—anyway.
	Go ahead, Eric.
	Yeah, that's true.
	We have to start in those states where the state legislature has at least a good chance of being on our side and then start to push beyond that.
	And right now, I mean, at the federal level, the Department of Justice might be looking at our case.
	And if a ruling comes down in either direction from the federal government, then that tells us how to kind of play this on the ground at a state-by-state level.
	But I think in general, going from the deeper red to the lighter to the blue eventually is the course.
	Arkansas is a great state in terms of its politics.
	I mean, no, they're not identitarians in the state legislature.
	The music playing, we'll be right back.
	But if you're going to make a play, it's one of the best states you can make a play in.
	We'll be right back.
	Eric Orwell, return to the land.org.
	It's just getting better.
	Stay tuned, everybody.
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	All right.
	Well, welcome back to TPC where the best part of the program takes place during the commercial breaks.
	If you could only just be here in studio tonight.
	Well, we've got a question that's come into you about media.
	And that makes me want to just remind the folks that you have been on one hell of a media tour.
	I mean, you have been certainly on the circuit.
	As I mentioned, I think in the first hour, just earlier today, as we broadcast live tonight now at 7.48 p.m. Central Time, at noon, you were with Greg Johnson, our friend, at Countercurrents for two hours.
	You got off there, immediately got in the car, drove down to Memphis, and here you are now for three hours.
	And that's not necessarily atypical for you in the last couple of months, is it not?
	No, it's not, unfortunately.
	When I was a smaller presence on social media, I made it a big point to always be willing to talk to anyone.
	I was a believer in open discourse.
	And when you have a YouTube channel with 5,000 subscribers, it's actually achievable.
	Now it's backfired, and it is definitely not feasible to go on this way forever.
	Hopefully the attention does die down.
	I don't think this is a permanent state of affairs.
	But while people are looking at the case, I think it's the right time in the cultural climate to have that national conversation.
	And for those who say that, you know, creating these communities is running off to the woods or retreatism or something, we have had a bigger impact on the national conversation just because it's such a defensible position.
	We just want to be left alone.
	We're not saying we want control over the government.
	We want a neighborhood.
	That's it.
	Well, okay, so this is, again, all the people you've been with.
	One second, Keith.
	You were with the Hodge.
	I'm trying to think of everybody you've been with.
	And that's going to be a fool's errand because I'm going to leave out somebody who should be mentioned.
	But I know you were on with our friends Henrik and Lana very recently, the Hodge twins.
	What are some of the stops you've made?
	Elijah Schaefer, basically everyone in our spheres.
	You know, Greg Johnson today, as you mentioned, and a lot of mainstream media as well has visited the community.
	On Monday, someone from the New York Times came out, actually.
	Oh, boy.
	Yeah, we know the media.
	We've done a few things with the New York Times.
	It's never been favorable, of course.
	But that's actually, well, you know, I got another question about the media that's come in that I want to get to.
	And it goes back to that Sky News.
	I mean, that was just a, I don't know why the media from Australia pierced the veil so much, but that was really one that just sort of got everybody talking about it.
	But you have certainly been making the rounds and you've been talking to folks.
	And, well, let's just get to the question.
	I'm curious to hear Eric's response from criticism regarding inviting normal news outlets to go into the community, Sky News, for example.
	Why did he invite them in when we normally know how these hit jobs go?
	What was his objective?
	And actually, you commented about this with Greg Johnson earlier today.
	I had the opportunity to listen to that in anticipation for tonight's program.
	But you do address that.
	You understand, and you even mentioned that you understand that these people will lose their jobs if they cover you favorably, but you know that nobody is going to cover you favorably, but yet you still grant these interviews.
	What is the objective there?
	Yeah, I mean, I had a good enough read of the situation, I suppose, to anticipate the reaction to these stories because I understand the framing of our position is so rhetorically easy, as I was just saying.
	All we want is to be left alone in our own neighborhood.
	And the fact that that's the ask, average people are siding with us.
	If you go through the comments on any of these pieces, some of which have, you know, millions of views at this point, it is overwhelmingly positive or in some cases neutral.
	And they're saying, well, why not let them?
	So I saw that it was a battle that the media would try to attack us and they would lose.
	So, you know, I might have miscalculated that and then brought all this heat on the community and not handled it well.
	Luckily, though, that's not been the case, and we've handled it just fine, and the people are actually on our side.
	We have to have this battle, though.
	You know, I talked to my uncle, who was the editor-in-chief of Travel and Leisure for a while.
	When this was starting, I called him up and asked for his recommendation on what to do with the media because he'd been on TV and, you know, dealt with these people.
	And his immediate response was, don't talk to the media.
	Of course, you know, he assumed that they would drag me through the mud.
	And I explained to him, it's like, well, Frodo didn't want to go to Mordor.
	Frodo wanted to stay in the Shire, but if he just stayed in the Shire and minded his own business, there wouldn't be a Shire.
	You know, this is a battle that has to happen.
	So what are the benefits then of this?
	What have the benefits been?
	Not theoretically.
	What have the benefits been, if any, to this crush of media attention that you've received in the last couple of months?
	Because again, as I say, everybody's talking about this project.
	Right.
	Well, that conversation is the biggest intangible benefit.
	I think it is changing people's minds.
	First, before people become explicitly pro-white or ready for a return to white leadership and a white majority in the country, they have to first be willing to allow white people freedom of association.
	It's a much smaller ask.
	It's a humble claim.
	And so I think we've sort of skipped that step.
	People on our side for a long time.
	Some people had good foresight and understood the significance of these communities a long time ago, like Jared Taylor.
	Others have always focused on this kind of white nationalist approach where we need the government to represent our interests.
	It's our country.
	And that's just something that was going, it was always going to encounter pushback.
	So that change in the national conversation, I think, is extremely valuable.
	And we'll see where that goes.
	As far as the actual direct tangible benefits, we have gotten a lot of support and specifically for our legal campaign.
	So we have, if you go to our website, we have a donation tab.
	And one of our campaigns, the most important, is our legal fundraiser.
	Right now, that's all going into research.
	And we have multiple lawyers specialized in different areas of the law working to improve our documents, improve our legal structure.
	And changes are being made slowly and steadily so that, you know, if this, say, the DOJ decides to put it off until the next administration and then they attack us, well, by that point in time, we're going to have a much more thoroughly researched and airtight position.
	What I think the real problem is, is the veneration of the civil rights movement because that's what they will always hit you with first is how, you know, for example, what you're doing is contrary to sweat versus painter, things like that.
	That is, you know, that in other words, you've got a restrictive covenant by another name.
	You're right, but see, our biggest problem is that because of the civil rights movement, a lot of people, and of course, the mainstream, lame stream conservatives, the Sean Hannity's, the Bill O'Reilly's, people like this, they all worship at the shrine of the civil rights movement.
	And if you worship at the shrine of the civil rights movement, then you will lose this argument.
	You've got to be able to tell them the civil rights movement was wrong and this is why, because it was based on gaslighting white people about segregation when everybody segregates, in fact, and no one else will admit to it.
	But that's the key.
	If you can get them off of this thing that segregation for white people is bad, then the way to do it is to say segregation is either bad for everyone or bad for no one.
	That's the way to win this argument, in my opinion.
	And oh, let me just tell you the other thing about I was telling you about Greta Garbo.
	If you were a boomer like me and grew up in the 50s, you would know who Greta Garbo was.
	She was a famous Swedish actress in the 20s and 30s who was famous for being very reclusive.
	And she was asked famously one time, what is it that you want out of life?
	And she said, I want to be left alone.
	That's what you want.
	That's what white people want, right?
	So use that as an analogy when you're doing this and you'll at least get a few old-timers to get their brains working.
	Greta Garbo, huh?
	Okay.
	No, I think this line has to be refined in a way that is salient to the American people at large.
	And a reactionary take on the civil rights movement is a difficult pill for a lot of people to say.
	And so is the word segregation, which is not one that should be used.
	So I think the line is making it clear that there is a balance between respecting the rights of minority groups to have access to the housing market, because that's the principal concern.
	That's why people want to shut this down.
	Because in the past, the claim was that African Americans and other groups could not have access to decent housing.
	And the important distinction to make is between the public real estate market and private communities.
	And the decision on restrictive covenants really blurred that line.
	So instead of just protecting minority groups and their access to commerce, which that is the role of the government, right?
	Keeping markets working for people, all citizens.
	So instead of just protecting their rights, they infringed on our right to freely associate.
	And the way to draw that fine distinction is to have the government protect the rights of ordinary citizens to access markets in the public sector, but also the government has to protect the rights of American citizens to freely associate in the private sector.
	And if you want a private community, it is your constitutional right to found that.
	And your example for that should be the Amish.
	You know, are the Amish to give up having their own distinct communities because of the civil rights laws?
	You know, they obviously haven't been challenged on that.
	But basically, if you believe that it's bad for white people to have segregation, then the Amish should be, you know, on the target list.
	And I don't think anybody wants to target them.
	I think that it's very important.
	See, it's like a country club.
	You can have a country club.
	And that seems to be all right, but it would violate those sweat versus painter type of principles if you spread them out too far.
	Sure.
	All right.
	Well, we're coming up on the break of the second hour.
	A third hour is still forthcoming.
	One more hour with Eric Orwald, who has traveled down to Memphis to be with us tonight.
	I hope you are enjoying it, ladies and gentlemen.
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