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May 13, 2025 - Tim Pool Daily Show

01:03:39

Liberals OUTRAGED As White South Africans Enter US As Refugees

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ernst roets

20:56

tim pool

33:36

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scott jennings

01:12

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ashley allison

00:39

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Speaker	Time	Text
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Since the beginning of the Trump era, Democrats seem to have been completely in favor of any and all refugees.
		Donald Trump, of course, was concerned about illegal immigration, and so he wanted deportations.
		Despite the fact that Barack Obama was called the deporter-in-chief, Trump became the bad guy.
		Now, we all knew, and I say we as in those who have paid attention to what is going on, the corporate press has been lying about basically everything.
		Especially this empathy narrative of these poor refugees.
		Letting in tens of millions of individuals from third world countries unvetted was just the right thing to do.
		Until Donald Trump said about 50 or 60 white people from South Africa will be welcome in this country as well.
		Let me repeat that.
		About 50 or 60. I think the number is 59 white South Africans.
		Come to this country as refugees, fleeing persecution, threat of death, and the left is apoplectic.
		They have found the one refugee group that must be turned away, white people.
		My friends, I find South Africa to be very, very interesting.
		Did you know that there is very serious crime in South Africa?
		And some of this is so abhorrent.
		I'm going to wait to discuss how awful and evil some of these crimes are.
		Crimes spiked in the late 90s.
		And it seems to have only gotten worse.
		There's a period where it went down a little bit, but it seems to have gotten worse.
		And it's sad, but this is a fact.
		During apartheid, South Africa was a leading industrialized nation.
		Since then, they have become I don't even—some of these things are hard to discuss.
		They have become the center-most location for what is called infant rape, among other very serious crimes.
		The question is why.
		There's a lot of reasons.
		We can break those reasons down.
		There's a lot of blame to go around, and there's debates of the history of this nation.
		But what I can say— And what I can speak for is this country in the United States, this country, the United States, that, let me just say this, my friends, I can't speak for every conservative right-wing individual who's out there.
		I certainly can't speak for any of the left liberals because they just lie and they're desperate to be in their cult.
		But as a disaffected liberal myself, I am in favor of bringing in asylum seekers and refugees.
		Indeed I am.
		And you know, honestly, I don't really care where they come from.
		We can see that Nigerian migrants tend to flourish in this country.
		My issue is with unvetted, unfettered, third-world, illegal immigration masked as refugees, masked as asylum seekers.
		That's what the Democrats were bringing into this country.
		And I'll say it now, and I said it before, if you apply legally through your consulate, To come to these United States as a refugee or asylum seeker and it is granted and approved?
		Okay.
		I'm for that.
		Not these people flying from Africa to Brazil, traveling through all of these safe nations to come to the United States and then claim asylum at the very last minute.
		As for these South African individuals, they applied, it was granted, and they've come to the United States.
		It's that simple.
		To be fair, The Trump administration was trying to pause refugee resettlement and said that these individuals will be able to assimilate much more easily.
		So there is a question about race and ethnicity and culture and things like this.
		But I'm going to say it again.
		Democrats may try to take the moral high ground on this one, but they have nothing, nothing.
		Their entire worldview as it comes to the morality of refugees and asylum seekers is race based.
		And I've got the clips.
		To show it.
		The statements and the news story that the Episcopal Church is shutting down a $50 million a year deal because of a couple dozen white people?
		I kid you not.
		Today, we'll be joined by a man from South Africa who's actually been appearing quite a bit around.
		He's going to break down for us.
		His name is Ernst Roots.
		He's going to talk to us about what's been going on in South Africa and this persecution.
		And we even have people here at Timcast who are from South Africa.
		So it comes up from time to time.
		So we will be talking about all that, my friends.
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	I also want to give a shout out to Stephen Crowder and the Mug Club.
	Welcome to the Rumble morning lineup.
	I have your noon hour as we transition into that beautiful afternoon.
	I am Tim Poole, your host.
	You can follow me on X and Instagram at TimCast.
	This is going to be a doozy and not for the faint of heart.
	We're going to have some, you know, I'm warning you now.
	When I was younger, I met some people from South Africa.
	I watched a movie called Stander.
	It came out in 2003.
	It's about a man named Andre Stander, a bank robber.
	He's like the Dillinger of South Africa, and you should really watch that movie because it's amazing.
	And the story of the Stander gang, it really is something.
	Not that he was a good dude or anything, but it got me interested in apartheid and what had happened to this nation.
	How did South Africa go from a leading industrialized nation to the baby rape capital of the world?
	It's an interesting question.
	And the bigger question for us right now in the United States is, will we accept white South Afrikaners to come as refugees to this nation?
	Are they facing persecution?
	Let's start here with the liberal view.
	Episcopal Church refuses to resettle white Afrikaners, ends partnership with the U.S. government.
	Now, this story has been massively viral, and for that reason, I'm not going to go into the greatest of details, but give you the gist of things, because many of you probably already know, but for those that don't.
	In a striking move that ends a nearly four-decade-old relationship between the federal government and the Episcopal Church, the denomination announced on Monday that it is terminating its partnership with the government to resettle refugees, citing moral opposition to resettling white Afrikaners from South Africa who have been classified as refugees by President Donald Trump's administration.
	In a letter sent to members of the church, the Most Rev, Sean W. Rowe, The presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church said that two weeks ago the government informed Episcopal Migration Ministries that under the terms of our federal grant we are expected to resettle white Afrikaners from South Africa whom the U.S. government has classified as refugees.
	The request, Roe said, crossed a moral line.
	What moral line?
	You got some refugees.
	You take their word for it, right?
	Let me ask you a question.
	If someone came from Guatemala and said I'm a refugee, do you stop there and say, whoa, wait a minute, you're not being persecuted in Guatemala, you're a liar.
	Or do you say, okay, come here, tell me your story.
	Right.
	The only play here that is very obvious to everybody is that these individuals are white.
	Now the question is, are they facing persecution, prosecution, and discrimination?
	I think the answer is plainly yes.
	There have been numerous reports about farmers being murdered, but you know what?
	You know what?
	I need not bring up that story.
	I need only show you this video on YouTube.
	Let me play a little bit of this for you.
unidentified		This South African song has been igniting quite the firestorm online.
		Once deemed a struggle chant, modern adaptations of it have kindled cries of white genocide.
		So, why is this song so controversial?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Now, you notice the woman speaking didn't tell you what the name of the song was, but they do show it right here.
		Shoot the Bower.
		Really?
		Well, for those that don't know, boers are the white settlers who came to South Africa, and if you haven't figured out, to shoot them means to cause serious bodily harm, and in many instances, cause them to not be alive anymore.
unidentified		Well, it's mostly to do with this lyrics.
		The poor!
		The farmer!
		That chant about killing the Boers, the descendants of Dutch settlers in South Africa, Dubu Libunu, which translates to shoot the Boer, was born in the throes of apartheid-era South Africa in the early 90s.
		Apartheid, which is the Afrikaans' word for separateness, was pretty popular among white voters who sought to preserve their dominance over South Africa's black majority.
		The chant had roots across the political spectrum and was brought back into the public sphere by politician Peter Mokaba after the African National Congress Youth League was reconstituted in 1991 when it grew into a rallying call against apartheid.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The lyrics, let me make sure you can see that.
		Cowards are, only cowards are frightened.
		Shoot, shoot, shoot with the gun.
		Shoot the farmer bower.
		Shoot with the gun.
		Those are the lyrics.
		They chant those even now.
		So if you are a descendant of the farmer and the bower and you see stadiums full of people singing songs about how they want to murder you, perhaps I think it's fair to say you are facing serious persecution and a risk to your life.
unidentified		call against apartheid.
		Dubul Ibunu is one of a number of Struggle songs?
		That is, political anthems that were a key part of the fight to end white rule over non-whites in South Africa.
		As ANC lawmaker Gwede Mantashe put it in 2010.
		We're not talking about whites.
		We're talking about the system of apartheid.
		The biggest problem I have is when journalists interpret Dubul Ibunu as killed the boar, killed the farmer, which is a vulgarized interpretation of the song.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's a literal interpretation of the song, but sure.
unidentified		Apartheid ended in 1994, but the tradition of singing anti-apartheid songs didn't exactly fizzle out.
		Driving the resurgence of Dubulibunu in the early 2010s were some familiar faces.
		Then-President of South Africa and the African National Congress, Jacob Zuma, and Julius Malema, the leader of the far-left economic freedom fighters.
		Both leaders faced repercussions in court for those actions by right-wing and rights groups over hate speech.
		In 2022, though, a court ruled that singing the song is tantamount to free speech and that banning it would curtail freedom of expression.
		So why has Dubulibunu been experiencing a resurgence?
		Well, apartheid may be over, but inequality is far from its finish line.
		As one South African told TRT World, I honestly think that we are far from being economically free as black South Africans.
		The majority of the land and the wealth are still in white hands.
		Indeed, whites own more than 70% of farms held by individual owners, according to a 2017 government audit.
		That's even though the white population only makes up 7.7% of the population.
		Such inequality has served to galvanize support for the EFF, which, according to Melema, is the fastest-growing party in South Africa, garnering support from much of the country's Black youth.
		Melema has been using Diboulibuno to market one of the EFF's core policies, that is, land expropriation.
		This article puts South Africa's land issue in perspective.
		With the population growing rapidly and migration still ongoing, the land issue has exploded.
		There are millions upon millions of people with nowhere to go in a country where everywhere you look, there are vast tracts of wide-open, white-owned land occupied by nothing but sheep and wandering guinea fowl.
		Deborah James, an anthropologist, says this on land and restitution in South Africa.
		Land is not only understood literally, but has become a fulcrum for social and moral disputes.
		The controversial nature of the song hasn't won it many fans, particularly among the white community.
		It's actually helped fuel a conspiracy theory that claims a white genocide is in progress, wherein Africana farmers are murdered by the black public.
		But this claim is patently untrue.
		In fact, it has been called a myth.
		The proliferation of this claim is partly owing to this man, Simon Roche, the face of the Swedelanders, a Christian survivalist group.
		Roche has disseminated claims that the issue of land expropriation is linked to the alleged targeted killings of white farmers.
		But there is no evidence to back up this allegation.
		While farm murders do happen, they aren't usually linked to land reclamation, most of which occurs peacefully, according to POG.
		And critics say South Africa's generally high crime rate should not be conflated with land occupation.
		So what do you think?
		Is singing Dubbo Libuno counterproductive to solving South Africa's long-standing land issues?
		Or is it a necessary evil?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You know, I just want to say I don't think it should be controversial to tell people don't sing a song about killing one particular group of people.
		And that should be enough, right?
		But I do love this assessment.
		When they say that, yes, white farmers are being killed, but it's not related to land expropriation.
		Therefore, the idea that white farmers are being killed is wrong, despite the fact that they are being killed.
		Huh?
		Okay, so here's how the general idea works.
		We know for a fact that white farmers, the Boers, are being murdered in South Africa.
		It's terrifying.
		It is happening.
		Many of the crimes being committed that we see are like robberies.
		There will be, I mean, it's an 80 some odd percent black nation.
		And then the way they phrase things in South Africa is black means you are purely black.
		Colored means you are of mixed race descent.
		So it's around like 90 some odd percent non-white.
		We'll put it that way.
		Typically, what you then see is the people who are killing the white farmers are black.
		They torture them.
		They steal things.
		They kill them or maim them and leave them to die.
		Now, while I think it's fair to say not all of them are related to land expropriation, that's kind of obvious.
		You're not going to have a ragtag group of bandits going to a farm and being like, after we murder these people, we'll own the land.
		This is not the 1700s anymore.
		No, but the disdain they have for white people and the callousness they display is largely attached to the national sphere of influence.
		When they chant, kill the Boer, there are criminals who are like, no one is going to come after us and be angry if we do this.
		They're literally calling for it.
		It's an opportunity.
		So, when a powerful political faction...
		In a stadium is chanting to kill white people, and then people go out and actually do it.
		It doesn't have to be because they were trying to steal the land.
		However, there's also a myth in the claim of the myth.
		Some of these individuals that are killing the white farmers may be doing it not to take the land for themselves, but because they know once they kill the landowners, the government just takes the land.
		Therefore, when it comes to the filing, they say this wasn't related to land expropriation.
		Just a murder.
		Just a routine murder.
		Ah, well, now the landowners are gone.
		I guess the government will take the land?
		All right.
		What a horrifying reality.
		The New York Times has this story, and I got some clips for you.
		White South Africans granted refugee status by Trump, what we know.
		Now, there are a few things that I do want to bring up.
		Trump did seek to suspend refugee status, the refugee admissions program.
		It was blocked by a judge.
		I think we have the story here.
		Seattle judge temporarily blocks Trump's refugee executive order.
		Many on the left are saying this proves the hypocrisy.
		Trump said no more refugees, but then let's white refugees in.
		I mean, that can be countered very easily with around the same time Trump said a pause on refugee resettlement.
		He also said, but we'll issue an executive order specifically as early February for white South Afrikaners.
		And the number is, I believe, 59 people, not the 12. Thank you.
		Thank you.
		white South Afrikaners can easily assimilate into this country.
		And so they're going to accept it.
		Me, I say it's negligible.
		Fifty nine people shouldn't even be a blip on the radar.
		But the left has made it such an issue.
		Kind of proves the point.
		It proves they never actually cared about refugees.
		They just hate white people.
		But don't take my word for it.
		Let's watch CNN and see what they have to say.
ashley allison ▲ ● ▼		And part of that is that the people who are native to that land deserve their rightful land back.
		That is not what the Afrikaners actually want to have happen, which are the white Africans, and so who are not originally from Africa, who colonized South Africa also.
		And so that is what they are saying is discrimination.
		Now, if the Constitution in South Africa is discriminatory, they have their checks and balances in that land, just like we do.
		And that is for them to...
		So if the Afrikaners don't actually like the land, they can leave that country.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		They are.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		They're leaving to come here.
unidentified		No.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		These refugees are coming here.
ashley allison ▲ ● ▼		They can actually leave and go to where their native land is, which is probably Germany.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		Are you against them coming here?
unidentified		Holland.
unidentified		Holland and Germany.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Ma 'am, there is a logical danger.
		In what you have proposed that I fear many white nationalists and identitarians are absolutely going to jump on and agree with you on.
		You see, this is a former National Coalition's director for Biden-Harris in 2020 who is black, saying that if you don't like the country, go back to your ancestral homeland.
		You know what?
		You know what they're going to say to you, right?
		They're going to say, I completely agree, ma 'am.
		Can I pay for your flight back to Africa?
		Now, she can make every excuse she wants, but this is the problem.
		This individual would call you a racist if you were to suggest we pay for her return to her native homeland.
		While meanwhile saying Boers, white people in South Africa, many of whom who can't afford, they're farmers, they can't afford to go migrate to Germany, should be denied the right to seek refugee status in another country.
		I think they should be able to get refugee status in Germany or Holland, for sure.
		But my only point here is, ma 'am, you don't want to go down that path.
		Scott Jennings has a statement on this.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I do think it's not alleged discrimination that these people are facing in South Africa.
		I mean, the law there absolutely allows their property to be confiscated.
		They are subject to racial discrimination.
		Some have been subject to violence from some reports that I have read.
		I mean, we're talking about 50-something people, and the people who seem to be angriest about this today had no problem with 20 million coming here, some of the worst people in the world coming here, including gang members and so on and so forth.
		So I don't have a lot of sympathy for the folks who are outraged today after what happened to this country over the last several years, over 50-something people who are clearly being discriminated against in South Africa.
		Well, the previous administration had priorities about who to let in.
		Including, you know, all kinds of folks who I would argue shouldn't be here.
		This administration, I guess, is going to set priorities about who and who not to let in.
		But let's just be honest about what those priorities are, right?
unidentified		And by the way, I'm a Democrat here.
unidentified		I did not defend the Biden administration on immigration.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		But you voted for him.
unidentified		That doesn't mean that I defended him on immigration.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		And you voted for a continuation of it in 2024, did you not?
unidentified		I did not vote for his policies on immigration.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		You voted to extend the immigration policies of the last administration.
unidentified		No, no, no, I did not vote for that.
scott jennings ▲ ● ▼		The point is, you're in a party that opened the borders, and I'm in a party that closed the borders, and I think the American people prefer our way.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		I think I have another clip.
		We have a statement from Matt Walsh.
		He says, the great replacement is real.
		If you had any doubt, this story about the South African refugees should clear it up for you.
		The left wants unchecked third world migration because they want to make America less white.
		That's it.
		It's that simple.
		That's why they oppose the white refugees, because white refugees defeat the whole purpose of the program.
		Interestingly, it's only 59 people.
		Now I went to my good friend Chet GPT over here for some context I'd like to read for you.
		Is there serious crime in South Africa?
		I asked.
		Yes, South Africa has a serious crime problem.
		It consistently ranks among the countries with the highest rates of violent crime in the world.
		Key issues include high murder rate, over 27,000 murders were reported in 2023, averaging about 75 per day, widespread robbery and assault, rape and sexual violence, one of the highest rates of reported rape globally, police corruption and under-resourcing.
		Despite strong laws, enforcement is inconsistent, and many crimes go unpunished.
		Some areas are significantly more dangerous than others.
		Okay.
		Simple question.
		When did this crime begin?
		You know, was it always this way?
		They mention, serious crime in South Africa has deep historical roots with significant increases observed during the late apartheid era.
		1948-94, crime.
		However, they say, while some data suggests lower crime rates during this period, it's important to note that many crimes, especially those affecting non-white populations, We're not adequately recorded or addressed.
		In other words, they say crime stats were skewed due to systemic underreporting in black communities.
		OK, what they're telling us is that during apartheid in the black communities, there was significant crime that was not being stopped and was not being reported officially.
		So it seemed like crime wasn't all that bad.
		But it was bad in the black community.
		Post-apartheid crime trends.
		Following the end of apartheid in 1994, South Africa experienced a surge in crime rates.
		The murder rate, for instance, peaked in the late 1990s, but saw a decline in the early 2000s.
		However, recent years have witnessed a resurgence in violent crimes.
		In 2022, the country reported a murder rate of 45.53 per 100,000 people, ranking among the highest globally.
		They mentioned several factors.
		Socioeconomic inequality, unemployment, urbanization and housing, and policing challenges.
		Now, I think these are often excuses, and I'll tell you exactly what caused the spike in crime, and it was the end of apartheid.
		Yeah, I know the left is going to scream and screech and say it's racist, but I actually don't think that race is the issue.
		I think culture and the social fabric are at play here.
		You cannot have a white developed—I shouldn't—you know, we don't even say white.
		You can't take a developed, educated culture and then allow in 10 times the amount of the population who lack that same education and cultural development.
		This has nothing to do with being white or black or anything else.
		There will be many people who completely disagree.
		The argument is largely you had a wealthy, educated, industrialized nation.
		That kept out black people.
		These people didn't have access to the same degrees of education, cultural development, and thus crime was higher in the black community.
		When you end apartheid and all of those people then move into the other space, the crime that existed in their community transfers over to the white community.
		Race is a surface-level issue.
		It was used largely as the basis by which they segregated, but it is not the factor for the crime and the decay.
		Tangential.
		To a greater degree.
		Now, personally, I think, obviously, race is a component of genetics.
		I believe that there's a mix between nature and nurture.
		Obviously, if I tell the story, I go to Thailand, I can see over everybody's head.
		I'm taller than everybody.
		I go to Sweden, I'm shorter than everybody.
		These things play a role.
		If you're going to bring a bunch of, like, if you literally went to Thailand and grabbed a whole bunch of the worst criminals and brought them to Sweden, The people there are much bigger, right?
		And so this is going to have a different dynamic.
		I'm not saying the Swedish people are going to physically beat anybody up or anything like that, but the dynamic will be very different.
		The point is, yes, the background and races play a role, particularly in perception, and racism exists.
		Everybody's racist to a certain degree.
		Every country has a degree of racism and in-group preference.
		What you get then...
	When you have two groups that are visibly distinct is going to be the end of apartheid, resulting in the crime from the black community, which Chetipiti said was real, coming into the white community.
	And with in-group, out-group biases, it's going to be largely like what we're seeing now.
	White people are being targeted and they're being attacked on farms because they're not part of that community.
	They're being othered.
	I then asked it, Chetipiti, about the...
	The epidemic of infant rape, to which it said, this content may violate our usage policies.
	Yeah, it doesn't.
	I'm asking a legitimate question.
	JGPT says, infant rape in South Africa is a deeply distressing and persistent issue reflecting broader challenges related to child protection, societal myths, and systemic failures.
	The facts are, this is not prevalent among the white community.
	Again, I don't think the core component of that is that they are white.
	It's that they are educated and they have a higher degree of social development.
	This is why Nigerians who emigrate from Nigeria who are black and come to the United States also don't have these issues because they are wealthy and educated and they can afford to come to the United States.
	They tend to make six figures on average.
	So race isn't the issue.
	It's cultural development.
	However, in-group, out-group bias will be affected by this.
	The terrifying reality is that since the end of apartheid in the late 90s and 2000s is when South Africa went from a leading industrialized nation to the baby rape capital of the world.
	However, I do think it's fair to point out what Chet GPT says.
	These crimes were already happening in the black communities in South Africa.
	Just wasn't anybody's radar because they did not care.
	So this crime is now persisting and it's spreading.
	It's interesting, my friends, to see what's going on.
	Now, we are going to be joined in just a moment by Ernst Rutz, who is a, I guess you can call him a South African activist, and he's particularly prominent in the politics.
	I believe he sued Malema.
	I could be getting this wrong.
	There's a lot to talk about in terms of the history of South Africa, so I'm particularly excited to speak with this man.
	They say that, let me see, he had sued Malema for the song Dubul Ibunu, Shoot the Bower.
	And one, the court found him guilty of hate speech.
	So smash that like button.
	Share the show with everyone you know.
	Thanks for hanging out for this opening segment.
	We will wrap it up here.
	Follow me on X and Instagram at TimCast.
	And you can find the interview at youtube.com slash timcast or rumble.com slash timpool to different channels.
	Thanks for hanging out.
	Thanks for hanging out.
	And we'll see you all then.
	For everybody else that is watching live, we're actually going to pull up that interview in just a second.
	But there are many interesting things.
	I want to open this up with just a general approach to what's currently happening in South Africa, reiterating this for people who may just be joining for the interview portion.
	We have this story from the AP.
	The Episcopal Church says it will not help resettle white South Africans granted refugee status in the U.S. The left is arguing there is no persecution of white Afrikaners.
	The New York Times South Africa says there's no persecution.
	The South African government said the U.S. allegations that Afrikaners are being persecuted are completely false, the result of misinformation and an inaccurate view of its country.
	It cited the fact that Afrikaners are among the richest and most successful people in the country and said they are amongst the most economically privileged.
	Afrikaners are the descendants of mainly Dutch and French colonial settlers who first came to South Africa in the 17th century.
	So they're saying it's not actually happening.
	But the issue that I see, my friends, is that you can certainly point to the fact that, indeed, many of the wealthiest people in the country are white and have been white.
	There are many poorer people.
	Who have no means to travel, no means to leave, and no means to defend themselves from violent crimes.
	So we are going to pull in a political activist and an individual with first-hand experience, Ernst Rutz.
	Let me see if I can get this pulled up for you guys right here as we enter into this video.
	Let's see.
	It looks like not loading.
	We'll try again.
	There we go.
	There we go.
	My bad.
	Had to hit refresh.
	And get it to load one more time.
	And there we have it.
	Let me pull this in.
	And sir, can you hear me?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I can hear you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to introduce yourself for those that are not familiar with you and your work?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, thank you very much.
		Thank you for having me on the show.
		So I'm Ernst Rutz.
		I am the executive director of...
		A newly established institution in South Africa called the Pioneer Initiative.
		And the Pioneer Initiative is an institution that seeks to or that pushes for political reform in South Africa to work towards a more decentralized political system to get the government closer to the people and to give the various or the variety of communities that live in South Africa a much higher degree of self-governance over their own affairs.
		So other than that...
		I'm an author, I'm a documentary filmmaker, and I'm a scholar in constitutional law.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So I assume you are there in South Africa now?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm speaking to you from Pretoria, the capital city in South Africa.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right on, right on.
		I guess my first question before we go into all the hard details, are there concerns that you have about speaking politically on these issues, particularly related to the persecution of white farmers and things like that?
		I mean, could you get in trouble for this stuff?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want to say no, according to the legal system and the fact that we have freedom of speech in South Africa.
		But to a certain extent, the answer is yes, we are concerned about speaking about this, because the South African government and people within political parties, major political parties, including within the ruling party in South Africa, those in power, have recently started to declare.
		what is happening in South Africa are committing high treason and should be prosecuted for high treason.
		So, several complaints of high treason has already been filed, although the names of the people who are being investigated for high treason, as far as I know, hasn't been disclosed.
		I believe that it is four of my colleagues from another institution who recently went to America to talk about problems in South Africa.
		So, there are these threats of prosecuting people for committing high treason for doing, for example, what I'm doing with you right now, talking about the crisis in South Africa.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This is what I was concerned about in having this conversation because, you know, I've...
		I'm nowhere close to any kind of expert on South Africa, but I've probably read a bit more than the average person.
		I had met someone from South Africa some 25 years ago, got me interested in what had been happening to your country since the end of apartheid, and obviously with apartheid too.
		My first question then, just to get into the thick of things, the United States is bringing in some refugees.
		Is there a persecution or discrimination against white people in South Africa?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		It's undoubtedly the case.
		And it's really alarming the extent to which minorities in South Africa, but especially white people, and you could add, especially the Afrikaner people, the Afrikaans-speaking, broadly speaking, the Afrikaans-speaking white community, or the Boers, as we are also known, are being persecuted.
		And when we say persecuted, we mean that this is happening on a variety of levels.
		The one and the most obvious is through legislation.
		South Africa, as we speak, is as far as we could determine the country in world history with the most discriminatory race laws.
		There are more than 140 race laws currently in place in South Africa that seek to discriminate against especially white people.
		But that's just one way of looking at the extent to which there is persecution.
		Other than the laws that we have in place currently and the racially discriminatory laws, there is a very aggressive push by the ruling party in South Africa to erode the property rights clause in the South African constitution to empower the state to confiscate private property without compensation.
		They call this EWC, expropriation without compensation.
		And they have made it very clear that they want to take property that belongs to white people.
		But that's just one way.
		And then we have South Africa is a violent country in general, and we have a variety of problems when it comes to violent crime.
		One of these problems is a very particular and a very unique problem, which is the targeting of farmers.
		Through what we call farm attacks or farm murders.
		And it's not just farmers being attacked and killed, but being tortured and in the most grotesque ways you can imagine.
		But then on top of that, what we have is politicians, very influential politicians, openly chanting.
		Chants such as kill the boer, kill the farmer, talking about how minority communities have to be exterminated and so forth.
		And then we have the president defending them.
		We have the justice system defending them with the court, for example, recently ruling that there's nothing wrong with chanting kill the boer, kill the farmer at a political rally.
		And then we can go further than that when we talk about persecution.
		We can give examples of, for example...
		The former president publicly saying that everything that is wrong with South Africa and that is wrong in South Africa should be blamed on white people.
		Publicly saying that a democracy works like this.
		If you are part of the minority, you should have fewer rights than the majority.
		The current president going on to an international platform in New York City saying that there are no farm killings in South Africa, there's no land grabs and so forth.
		They're just blatantly lying.
		And then publicly talking about how property has to be confiscated from white people and given, as he says, to our people.
		So we have the president of the country using the term our people to refer to a very particular section of society.
		And these are just a few examples.
		If we can elaborate on the extent to which minorities are being targeted.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've read a lot of stories about these farm killings.
		The press in the United States, particularly right now, the Associated Press.
		When they ran a story saying what you need to know about these refugees, they said South Africa says there currently isn't a persecution of white people.
		And many of these outlets are saying that the farm killings are unrelated to land expropriation.
		So have there been any instances where white farmers were killed specifically because of their land?
		Or how does that work?
		What's going on there?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Firstly, the farm killings, the problem with that is it happens so often, these attacks and the killings.
		So one way to measure it is, I actually wrote a book about this.
		It's called Kill the Boer.
		It's available on Amazon with more than 1,000 source references.
		So it took me three years to really study this phenomenon.
		One way to look at the numbers is to look at police, official police statistics.
		And over a period of two decades, that's about 20 years, According to the police data in South Africa, there were on average two farm attacks every day in South Africa, during which two people were murdered every week.
		And so that's the extent of the crisis.
		And now the thing is, as I said, it happens so often that surely there would be cases that would be what some people describe as robbery gone wrong.
		Someone goes in to steal a television and then they get caught.
		By the farmers, they thought maybe the house was empty, there's an outburst, there's some form of a scuffle and someone gets killed.
		And then these commentators are always very eager to point to such cases and say, well, this was robbery gone wrong, so there's no evidence of political motivation.
		When the fact is that there are many cases when there are, in fact, evidence of political motivation during these attacks.
		We see this, for example, with farm attacks where the attackers...
		Chant political slogans while attacking their victims, while torturing them in some cases.
		We've had the worst case was an elderly couple, an elderly woman and her daughter who was also an elderly lady.
		Both of them were severely tortured on a farm.
		And the attackers took the blood of the victims and wrote the slogan, kill the boer, on the wall.
		of the farmhouse with the blood of the victims.
		And so we have people literally writing kill the boer with the blood of the victims.
		And then we have politicians chanting kill the boer at political rallies.
		And then we have the constitutional court in South Africa saying, well, they don't see anything wrong with chanting kill the boer.
		So it's very, very alarming.
		We have attackers.
		Using the names of politicians during these attacks, saying, like Julius Malema is the one guy who keeps chanting, kill the Boer, one of the many, at political rallies.
		And we have had cases of the attackers chanting things like, viva Malema, die white man, as they attack farmers.
		And so for us, for someone like me...
		Within the Afrikaner community, having grown up in an agricultural community, knowing many farmers, knowing people who have been murdered, knowing people who have been attacked and who survive, to read these kind of reports that are published in places like America by the media, but also in South Africa, trying to pretend that this is a non-issue, people should not be focusing on this.
		It's really bizarre.
		And we live in the era of offensive Olympics.
		Everyone tries to be the most offended by...
		Just imagine how offensive this is.
		If a member of your family, your father or your child or your mother or someone who's close to you was murdered during one of these attacks.
		And then you read in the New York Times, for example, that this is a non-issue.
		There's no political issue here.
		People should not be talking about this.
		What could be more offensive than that?
		And so I'm very grateful for the rise of alternative media and podcasts such as yourself that are shedding light on this very serious.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Have you considered seeking refugee status or fleeing the country?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And this is a very important point, that we have a very rich history.
		The Afrikaner people in this country.
		We arrived.
		The settlement, the first settlement that eventually led to the, what you could say, origins of the Afrikaner people was in 1652.
		My great-great-great-great-grandfather, the first roots of whom I dissent, who came to South Africa.
		He lived about the same age as George Washington.
		He was older than George Washington.
		I believe he was about a teenager when George Washington was born.
		And so we've been in this country, you could say my personal family has been in this country since the founding of America.
		And we have a very rich history.
		We've had many existential crises because we're a small nation and small nations often face existential crises and we face one now.
		And there are people who want to leave the country and we believe if it's possible for them to go, it's good if they have the opportunity to go, but we need to find a solution for the communities in South Africa who have been here for hundreds of years and who want a sustainable future here in the Southern tip of the African continent.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm gonna assume on this next question that I'm, I'm not nearly informed enough to have this opinion, just to be honest.
		From what I've read and from what I know, again, being limited, it seems like crime began to skyrocket in South Africa after the end of apartheid.
		And not just crime, but very serious crimes like infant rape and things like that.
		And so, you know, my view of things is you had a problem, obviously, with apartheid.
		But the end of apartheid has resulted in just different kinds of problems with, now you're mentioning, there's already many, many different race-based laws on the books targeting different groups, targeting white people predominantly.
		It seems like the way that apartheid ended was probably the wrong way to go about it, though it wasn't a good system.
		Maybe I'm wrong, but just to put it simply, when I look at the history of South Africa as a leading industrialized nation, And then you start to read about the explosion of crime after the end of apartheid.
		It seems like however it was dismantled just resulted in the problem being worse.
		You still have racial tensions, racial animosity.
		It's not gone away.
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm very happy that you frame it as such.
		So there was a press conference in the year 1990 just after...
		The legislation such as the Suppression of Communism Act and so forth, which was in some ways the backbone of the apartheid system, was rescinded.
		And the ANC, of course, has always been a movement.
		The ANC is the ruling party in South Africa.
		They've always been a movement committed to the promotion of communism and socialism.
		And so as a result of these...
		This legislation being repealed and the negotiations starting for a new South Africa, as they called it, the new South Africa.
		The president of South Africa at the time, F.W. de Klerk, was asked at a press conference, how will you know if you made the right decision?
		And he responded with, we will see what happens with the violence.
		If the violence increases, it would have been the wrong decision.
		If it decreases, it would have been the right decision.
		I wholeheartedly agree with you that the apartheid system should have ended.
		And even though you would find a lot of people in South Africa referring to certain aspects of society having been better under the previous system, such as service delivery, fewer crime levels and so forth, almost everyone agrees that we should have gone past that.
		That system didn't work and we needed to move beyond that.
		But it is the case.
		What is very interesting, the ANC, the governing party in South Africa, Has been committed to a violent revolution for some time, and they were involved with setting up paramilitary movements back in the 1980s and so forth in an organization called Mkantui Sizwe, which was the military wing of the ANC.
		And a little-known fact is that this military movement, the military wing of the ANC, that had an explicit policy of targeting farmers in the 1980s and 70s, they were...
		The legislation that declared them in a legal organization was repealed in 1990, and they came back because they were in exile all over Africa.
		They came back to South Africa in 1990, and that's when the farm murders started.
		You can trace it back to when did these attacks start, and it started in 1990.
		And so, yes, the system should have ended, the previous system, but we have this bizarre false dichotomy in South Africa that you can either choose between one of two options.
		You can either have apartheid or you can have what we have in South Africa.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Man, it is very interesting to see the difference between How colonization ended up in South Africa versus, say, New Zealand, the United States.
		You know, my view largely right now is the system of segregation that you guys had, there was already racial tension and racial animosity.
		It's not gone anywhere.
		But I view it largely as an emotional reaction.
		The system was bad.
		But having a large population of individuals with a high crime rate, low education rates, immediately ending apartheid resulted in now what we're seeing as higher crime rates.
		It's persistent.
		So it doesn't appear to have been an actual solution to the problem, which is now resulting in white Afrikaners applying for refugee status in the United States.
		Now, one of the things we've heard on CNN...
		A former Obama-Harris staffer, she is a black woman, and she said that these white Afrikaners should just go back to Germany or Holland.
		And it's a bit ironic considering, you know, I think it's a dangerous logical position she'd be taking considering many white nationalists in the United States would tell her as a black woman to go back to Africa.
		What do you think about that argument that...
		The Boers just decolonize, go back home.
		Why can't they go to Germany or Holland?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Well, firstly, that just smacks of ethnic cleansing.
		This idea that the solution to this territory is to get rid of a certain section of society.
		Just get out of here.
		And so the term genocide has been used a few times with regard to South Africa.
		I don't think that that's the appropriate term to describe what is happening.
		And we should be cautious of using very particular legal terminology that could get you entangled in a legal debate about what is the application of the definition and so forth.
		But I do think that we should...
		Without necessarily saying that what is happening in South Africa is ethnic cleansing, it certainly is a threat to ethnic cleansing.
		And the difference, of course, genocide is just killing people and just murdering them in large numbers.
		Ethnic cleansing is a bit broader.
		It's killing people.
		But it's also targeting them through legislation.
		It's saying things like go back to Europe, go back to Holland or go back to the Netherlands, even though we've been here for centuries.
		We've been in Africa since before the Enlightenment.
		And now suddenly the solution is just to cleanse the country of our existence or of our presence.
		It's a really, really dangerous thing to say.
		And now if you consider things like calling on people to leave.
		Pushing them out through racial discriminatory laws, murdering them, chanting songs about murdering them, publicly saying that they should have fewer rights.
		It becomes increasingly difficult to see how this is not ethnic cleansing.
		And it should be called out and we should take a stance against this.
		And our friends abroad in America and in Europe and in other countries should be much more outspoken against what is currently happening in South Africa.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There was a similar phenomenon in...
		Other African nations, which I'm sure you're familiar with, where white farmers were chased out of the country, and it resulted in, let's just say, a short supply of food and then a celebration upon their return.
		Is there a concern for South Africa that if these farmers keep getting killed and attacked this way, food production could be at risk?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		So I grew up in the north of South Africa, in what is now called the Lampopo province, in an agricultural community, very close to Zimbabwe.
		And as a child, that's the reason actually why I'm speaking with you right now.
		I became an activist because I grew up seeing the farm attacks happening around me as a child and seeing on the news what's happening just a few hundred kilometers away.
		Across the border in Zimbabwe.
		And just on my wall here, I have a framed $100 trillion note.
		It's a Zimbabwean dollar from, I think, 2003.
		And I believe it still is the world record of highest inflation ever.
		Just how that country, and it's really a tragedy what happened in Zimbabwe or Rhodesia, as it was called before then.
		Just how that country was completely destroyed.
		By land reform, by the Zimbabwean government in a very aggressive way, targeting the property belonging to commercial farmers for racial reasons, chasing them out of the countries, doing the things that politicians in South Africa are threatening with at the moment.
		Yes, we really do have some of the best farmers in the world.
		The commercial farmers in South Africa are extremely productive, are very good at farming.
		We export food.
		We're a significant foundation to the economy.
		Even though the economy is very large and agriculture is a small part of the economy, a significant section of the South African economy is dependent on agriculture or linked to agriculture.
		And it's very sad and tragic and dangerous.
		To see just the extent to which these commercial farmers are being targeted, are being villainized, politicians chanting about murdering them.
		When they are murdered, the president pretends that it's not happening and so forth.
		So yes, we are concerned about that.
		I do think we're a bit better equipped than the people of Zimbabwe were in the sense that we have a much more well-organized civil society in South Africa, which they didn't have in Zimbabwe.
		And so I think we have well-organized communities who are armed, who are driving patrols in their own communities, who can defend themselves.
		And I think I'm not so convinced that a Zimbabwe-type scenario would play out in South Africa, although that's possible.
		I am concerned that we will just have continued deterioration over time, up to the point where South Africa becomes a next Zimbabwe, but without having had the very significant crash that Zimbabwe had in the early 2000s.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that many people have big fences around their properties.
		They hire private security on call for the crime.
		And I've also heard that in some houses, people actually have gates guarding certain rooms in case someone breaks in.
		Is that true?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's absolutely the case.
		So where I live, I live in what we call a security estate or a security complex.
		It's very difficult to get in.
		And a lot of people aren't able to do that.
		And so it's common, it's standard for houses to have big walls around them with electric fences on top of the walls and then some form of beams, an alarm system in the garden, the front lawn, so that if you walk in the garden, there's an alarm that is triggered that immediately connects to an armed response.
		And then on top of that, having these Security gates at the front door and between rooms.
		So you often find, especially in farms, like in every farm, you will see the security gates, for example, between the kitchen and the hallway that leads up to the sleeping areas where people sleep.
		And then they would put on the electric fence at night, they would put on the alarm.
		That activates when someone somehow passes the electric fence that is on top of a wall.
		They would lock the front gate and then they would lock the gates inside the house.
		It's a very common thing to see in South Africa.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You know, I had met a couple that was from South Africa about seven years ago.
		And they were in South Korea and they told me, what they said was, crime's really not that bad.
		People think it's really, really bad, but I've only been carjacked, I think, five times.
		And, you know, as someone who grew up in Chicago on the south side where crime is pretty bad, I was like, I've never been carjacked and I'm from like a really bad neighborhood.
		I wonder if, you know, the South Africans have just largely adapted to the expectation of crime.
		It seems normal.
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're absolutely right.
		It has to a large extent become normalized.
		It's very, very difficult to find someone in South Africa that wasn't.
		The victim of some form of violent crime, like being mugged, being carjacked or something like that.
		I personally, with my kids two years ago, my entire family was in an armed robbery in a restaurant.
		It was my son's birthday.
		We went out to have ice cream.
		And as we got up to pay, there was armed robbers starting to shoot people in the restaurant.
		Duck, dive below the tables next to a dead body.
		And there are people who have had much worse experiences and there are people who have not had that bad experience in South Africa.
		But it has become normalized.
		We do have, you could say, islands of safety, like the security estates.
		are certain neighborhoods that are quite safe, very comparable to European cities.
		I live in Pretoria, the capital city.
		I mean, I drive around every day.
		But you do know that there are certain areas that you have to avoid, there are certain streets that you have to avoid, and you don't want to be driving around at night, especially in some areas where you would be almost guaranteed to be a victim of crime.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But broadly speaking, it's certainly Well, my last question for you is, what can people in the United States do?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		A different country?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm happy that you asked that.
		We have just started this new initiative.
		I mean, I've been involved in this for decades, but we're starting a new initiative now that we are calling the Pioneer Initiative.
		It's sort of a preliminary organization that will take on a more final form in the coming days.
		And I really want to encourage people watching this if they support the idea that South Africa needs systemic reform.
		To support the pioneer initiative.
		And so what we mean when we say systemic reform is the problems that we experience in South Africa today are not simply a result of the fact that the wrong...
		It's because of underlying systemic problems with the political system that is detached from reality.
		So we need a political system that is more realistic, that is more in tune with reality.
		And the reality in South Africa is that it's a very diverse country with a variety of communities.
		That see things differently in many ways.
		And it's not necessarily because one is right and one is wrong, but because of different cultures, different languages, traditions, and so forth.
		And so what South Africa needs is a decentralized political system with higher levels of self-governance for the different communities living in South Africa, as opposed to this very strong centralized socialist government.
		And that's what we're going to promote, what we are promoting with the Pioneer Initiative.
		And if people want to support that, we would really welcome that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right on.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Ernst, where can people find you?
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		So we're on social media.
		All the big platforms are under my name, Ernst Rutz.
		But then also the Pioneer Initiative is easy to find.
		I'm sure if people just Google Pioneer Initiative, they'll find it.
		But other than that, if they want to go to the URL directly, it's pioneerinitiative.org.za.
		ZA is the abbreviation for South Africa.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right on.
		Well, thank you so much for the insight.
		Thanks for hanging out and letting us know what's going on.
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much also for speaking about this.
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		Take care.
		Thank you.
ernst roets ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely amazing and insightful and terrifying.
		I was unaware of the high treason cases.
		I think there was four, so I'm definitely going to be looking into that.
		I'll see if you guys have any quick rumble rants we can get in before we can just send you all off to our friend Russell Brand, who is currently getting ready to go live.
		And we got this.
		KJ Doar says, Tim, we can argue all of this all day with the left.
		The real thing I worry about is what is the long-term solution on de-radicalizing people who can no longer tell their butt from their elbow?
		I don't know, man.
		You know, I was thinking about what's going on in South Africa.
		And, you know, as Ernst is speaking, I don't care which group of people is being targeted and killed based on their race.
		It's all bad.
		If, you know, we're looking at what's going, like Boko Haram, for instance.
		We all generally find it bad that there's a group of people that is killing even black children.
		It's not a race thing.
		But to the left it is.
		To the left it is.
		And that makes it a challenge for all of us when we want a working solution for South Africa.
		They don't care if they're black or white or whatever.
		But the problem is you have deep racial animosity.
		It's not going anywhere.
		How do we solve for that?
		The media is going to claim that nothing bad is happening to white people.
		White people are oppressors.
		They're going to claim that white people have everything, despite the fact that most poor people in the United States are white.
		Because to them, white is rich.
		A white homeless man has more power than Oprah Winfrey.
		It makes no sense.
		Me, I just want people to be able to live their lives.
		Don't commit crimes against other people.
		Do the right thing.
		Have a family.
		Enjoy some wings and a nice slice of pizza while watching the game.
		Be it an Asian person, a black, a Mexican, Latino, whatever.
		I don't know how we solve for it, my friends, but I have long heard about the stories of South Africa, so I hope for them the best, and it is sounding pretty sad.
		We're going to send you all over to hang out with Russell Brand, so gear up for that raid.
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		Stories like this.
		When you guys come and join each and every individual who smashes that like button, shares that show, joins Rumble Premium, promo code TIM10, of course, and our Discord server at TimCast.com, you are building this space up.
		If every single person who watched this show shared it on social media, we would be bigger than all of the cable news shows.
		We'd be the biggest show, and we would make that difference.
		And it's not just about me, of course.
		It's about the whole Rumble lineup.
		So I ask you guys this one thing.
		Thanks for hanging out.

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