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Feb. 4, 2023 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool
02:02:38
Timcast IRL - Virginia REFUSES To Ban Child Sex Changes, Jeff Younger Joins To Discuss His Story
Participants
Main voices
i
ian crossland
10:51
j
jeff younger
45:45
l
libby emmons
17:21
t
tim pool
46:30
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Speaker Time Text
tim pool
A lot of people were hoping that Glenn Youngkin was going to fix Virginia, but just because
the governor is a Republican doesn't mean that they can change the legislature.
And as long as there are Democrats in Virginia and a lot of influence, yeah, you're not gonna get everything you want.
So now we have this story.
The Virginia Senate has rejected three bills that would ban sex changes for minors.
And we're going to talk about that, plus a bunch of other stories pertaining to what's happening with kids in schools, with critical race theory, with gender theory, gender ideology, and things like that.
Because joining us today is a man who has a personal stake in this fight and personal experience.
We are joined by Jeff Younger.
jeff younger
Hey everybody.
tim pool
Do you want to introduce yourself?
jeff younger
Yeah, my name is Jeff Younger, my son is James, and my ex-wife has been trying to transition to a girl since he was two years old, and recently the Texas Supreme Court allowed my ex-wife to move my son to California to transition him.
tim pool
And that's, is California a sanctuary for gender transition?
jeff younger
It's a sanctuary state.
It's Senate Bill 107.
tim pool
So we are going to talk about that, plus a bunch of similar issues, because actually the post-millennial had a bunch, and Libby's hanging out with us today as well.
libby emmons
Hey, what's going on, everybody?
This is Libby Emmons with the Postmillennial.
Glad to be here.
tim pool
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And we also got Ian Crossland hanging out.
ian crossland
What's up, everybody?
Happy to be here.
I'll be here.
Maybe we'll play it later on the show.
I see some deepfakes of my voice going around.
tim pool
So a friend of mine sent me a deepfake voice generator.
It is the creepiest and scariest thing I've ever seen.
It took two seconds to upload a clip of Ian's voice, and we can make Ian say anything.
ian crossland
And they will.
Oh, they will.
tim pool
Now here's the best part.
When I tried it on me, it didn't work.
ian crossland
Why not?
tim pool
I have no idea, but I'm glad it didn't.
Really?
Yeah, it didn't work.
ian crossland
It just sounded bad?
tim pool
It doesn't sound like me at all.
unidentified
Wow.
tim pool
It weirdly just doesn't sound like me.
And I'm like, okay, that's a good thing.
Maybe I got a weird voice and I talk like a weird person.
ian crossland
You're immune to the matrix.
tim pool
Well, maybe there's something like most people talk a certain way.
So the AI takes a person's voice and applies it to like a standard set of like an algorithm that applies to most people and then generates it.
And for me, it just didn't really work.
ian crossland
Cool.
Maybe we can listen to those later.
tim pool
We will, we will definitely play those.
We also got Serge pressing the buttons.
jeff younger
Yo, what's up everybody?
tim pool
How you guys doing?
At Serge.com.
Let's get started with your story, actually, Jeff.
For those that don't know what's happening with you and your son, do you want to give us the 101?
jeff younger
Sure.
So, starting about two years old, my ex-wife decided to transition my son to a girl.
We were still married at the time, and I told her she couldn't do that.
She's a pediatrician, and she forced me out of my house, filed for divorce, and then began to really, in earnest, try to transition my son.
She began to present him to the world as a girl.
She changed his name without my consent, with no legal basis to do that.
My son eventually, at three years old, we're still heading towards divorce, tells me that Mommy says I'm a girl.
So I took the first iPhone video I'd ever taken.
And if you go on YouTube, you can find it.
Just search for Mommy Says I'm a Girl.
It went everywhere.
I'm an Orthodox Christian.
So it also went all over Eastern Europe, and Russian television got a hold of it.
They were all perplexed.
Like, they think of Texas as a Bible Belt.
How could it be?
How can this be happening in this religious part of the country?
So then we get to trial.
The psychology community turned completely against me.
All of them lied at trial.
So far, I've been able to prove all these psychologists have lied, so all their testimony has been thrown out.
tim pool
What were they lying about?
jeff younger
Whether my son wants to be a girl or a boy.
In the initial psychological investigation, they tried to cover for my wife by saying she wasn't trying to transition my son.
And on that basis, that I had made a false accusation that she was trying to transition him gave me less than standard possession time with my son.
So then we go to another trial in 2019 after the school started transitioning my son behind my back.
So I take my son to school and in boys clothes they give him a dress, make him use the girl's restroom.
And it turns out there's a loophole in all the 50 states around psychology that allows psychologists to not inform parents.
Parents actually don't have a legal right to the medical and psychological records of their children.
I can explain that later.
So they used that law to transition my son without my consent, and I found out about it.
I filed grievances with the school district.
They said they did not violate my parental rights by transitioning my son without my consent.
So we wound up going to a 2019 trial in this little courthouse in Dallas, Texas, and the top experts in the world on transgender science from both sides showed up in this courtroom.
Only my experts testified because the depositions that I gave The experts on the other side were so devastating, they would never put them in front of a Texas jury.
I'll give you an example.
Johanna Olson-Kennedy, who runs the largest gender clinic in the United States, I directly asked her, how do you justify cutting healthy body parts off of children?
And she said, well, if they're causing psychological distress, they're not healthy body parts, so we cut them off.
I asked, how many total mastectomies have you referred out for pubescent girls?
And she said, over 250.
So they didn't want to put that in front.
tim pool
How many hands and feet did they chop off of body dysmorphic individuals?
jeff younger
Body dysmorphic people, yeah, exactly.
libby emmons
Well, Joanna Olson Kennedy also said that if girls end up wanting to have their breasts back, they can just get fake ones when they grow up.
tim pool
Yep, she did.
But let's go back to the beginning.
I mean, how does this begin?
How did your wife decide that your son, in her mind, why is she saying that your son is actually trans?
jeff younger
Well, I first noticed it when she would put him into timeouts and she'd say things like, you know, don't be a boy, the monsters only eat boys and weird stuff like this.
Oh, yeah.
unidentified
What?
jeff younger
Yes.
Oh, yes.
tim pool
But why is she doing it?
jeff younger
But she testified in court to this.
This is what she's testified.
I don't believe this answer, but I'm going to tell you what she swore to in front of the judge at the 2019 trial.
She said, first, James asked for a girl's meal in a McDonald's Happy Meal.
The girl's toy in a McDonald's Happy Meal.
Second, a few days later, he asked for a silver purse at Target that had a multicolored unicorn on it.
And James is a painter.
He's still a painter.
And so he wanted this purse.
And at that point, she thought he might be a girl.
That's what she testified to.
tim pool
Because he liked unicorns?
jeff younger
I don't believe any of these answers.
tim pool
Boys don't like unicorns?
unidentified
Yeah.
ian crossland
I mean, I used to pretend I was Wonder Woman.
I would dance around in my backyard swinging the invisible whip because I wanted to be an actor, because I'm creative.
And my parents had freaked out and been like, maybe that means... No, you're creative.
Yes, you can pretend to be anybody.
Anything you want to be.
jeff younger
Yes, you can.
And children will conform themselves to their parents' wishes in all sorts of ways.
And my son has told court-appointed psychologists, four of them, that the reason that he... Here's the other fact that's really important for you and your audience to know.
My son only presents as a girl with his mom.
He's never presented as a girl with me or anywhere else at church or anywhere.
It's only when he's with his mom that he does this.
So he's just told them straight up, Mommy doesn't love me if I'm not a girl.
He's told them that over and over again.
ian crossland
Told the judge that?
jeff younger
Told the court-appointed psychologists.
ian crossland
Um, what happened?
jeff younger
They all recommended that he be transitioned to a girl.
All of them.
ian crossland
Mommy doesn't love me if I'm not a girl?
This is what he said?
jeff younger
Yes.
ian crossland
That's like, that implicates the mother.
jeff younger
I know.
What precipitated me losing my sons, all contact with my sons, last year in July?
Was my son just straight up told his counselor that he doesn't want to be a girl, he's getting embarrassed wearing dresses at school.
She didn't even acknowledge that he said it.
So he had an Apple watch and he recorded himself.
He said, I'm going to record telling you this.
tim pool
Your son did?
jeff younger
Yes.
And she totally freaked out, threw him out of the office and initiated a CPS investigation against me and told the court that I had forced him to say that.
tim pool
How old is your son now?
jeff younger
Ten.
Ten.
He was nine when he said that.
Yeah.
ian crossland
Did you force him to do it?
jeff younger
No.
unidentified
No.
jeff younger
He did ask me if he could record.
And I said, Texas is a one-party recording state, but our family's not sneaky.
So if you're going to record people, you should tell them that you're recording them.
So just tell her that you're going to record her.
tim pool
So where is the story currently at now?
Your ex-wife took him to California?
jeff younger
The judge allowed her to move to California.
She doesn't have to tell me where my sons are.
So all I know is that they're in L.A.
County.
The only way for me to see my sons is to arrange for supervised visits in L.A.
County.
Okay.
And it has to be someone that's acceptable to the court.
So the judge will be able to pick who that is.
No matter who I pick, they won't let me do it.
She doesn't have to tell me any medical procedures that she's doing.
She doesn't have to tell me where they go to school.
I'm actually prohibited from even knowing those things.
unidentified
Wow.
jeff younger
Yeah.
So I haven't seen him in about a year and six months now.
ian crossland
Why both kids?
So two kids, you said one's 10 and then one is- They're both 10.
jeff younger
They're twins.
Yep.
And they're not identical.
tim pool
And so she's saying one is and one is not trans?
jeff younger
Yeah.
And this is something that she did with her daughters.
So if you want to know when I realized I was in trouble, It was during her pregnancy.
We made a decision to have children.
We're about two and a half years into the marriage and I discover everything she told me about her daughters was a lie.
So she had told me that her daughters were adopted.
Well, her younger daughter was adopted from her brother, who's a three-time convicted felon in California, had to flee the state because if he gets convicted again he'll get life, who exposed this child to methamphetamine in the womb and when she was a newborn.
Why not?
I had all these developmental problems, so I didn't know that.
I probably would have still married Anne knowing that, right?
Because it's good to adopt orphans like that.
I'm all for that.
But her other daughter was from a sperm donor, and I would not have married her had I known
that.
libby emmons
Why not?
jeff younger
Why not?
Well, it was, it would be like, she wants to have kids without a man, without a father.
libby emmons
Interesting.
jeff younger
Yeah.
And both of the girls, I didn't know this either, Anne's sister is a lesbian, and both of these girls had been raised only around women.
I remember going out and running foot races with the girls, because she basically abandoned her girls to me, so I'm the one who had to take them to school, do all their homework.
You know, everything, all the chores in the house.
She worked 80 hours a week at her practice, right?
And so I got these girls that I had to raise.
So we'd go out and run foot races and stuff like that, and they just couldn't believe that I was winning.
Like, they didn't know, like, boys can run faster than girls generally.
unidentified
Wow.
jeff younger
They just had not been around any men.
And Anne thought that was actually very funny that they were learning that and didn't know that.
But they were 10 years old and just discovering that for the first time.
tim pool
Sounds a lot like that book that we bring up periodically.
The one that's in front of you.
jeff younger
Yeah.
tim pool
Genderqueer.
Yeah.
Have you read that one?
jeff younger
I have not read it.
libby emmons
I bought a copy of that and read it myself.
Yeah.
tim pool
Yeah, it's a story of how this woman, she says she's non-binary, but it's an abuse story.
She couldn't read until she was 12.
She had to use old crusted pads with blood flaking off, and she smelled so bad because of it, the counselor called her in and said, you have a hygiene problem.
So it's no wonder she ends up distressed.
libby emmons
Well, and the book ends, like, the most triumphant part of the book is when she's deciding that she's going to come out to her middle school class and, like, tell all of her students that she's non-binary.
Which is, like, why does anyone need to do that?
tim pool
Why do these people want to be around children so much?
Odd.
libby emmons
It's odd and sort of distressing, yeah.
tim pool
I remember when the story first broke about the court case and the videos with your son and all that stuff.
But your son's 10 now.
I mean, 10-year-olds have a decent amount of lucidity.
So is he resisting?
Is he rejecting this?
Is he complaining about it?
jeff younger
Well, remember, the last time I saw him was when he resisted.
And they took him away from me permanently and gave me supervised visitation.
I get less visitation than convicted pedophiles in Texas.
libby emmons
You know what's crazy, too, though, is early on in the story, I remember reading in the Federalist, there was a woman who was the mom of some friends of your son, who said that when he was over at her house, he wanted to wear boy clothes, and she gave him boy clothes, and he just wanted to do rough-and-tumble boy things.
jeff younger
That's his normal state.
libby emmons
And her testimony, she was not allowed to testify to that in court.
No, she wasn't.
They wouldn't let her speak her piece.
Why would they not?
I don't know why they wouldn't let her do it, but they wouldn't accept her.
jeff younger
Yeah, so a lot of people don't understand how family courts work and what the incentives are in family courts.
People think of them as, you know, an objective judge and this sort of thing.
But the way that family courts are managed is they prevent you from presenting contrary evidence.
That's why I've never been allowed to select a psychologist for my son.
The courts will never allow me to do that.
The courts pick the psychologist who will then present the evidence to the court, right?
Now fortunately, I've been able to record them, I've been able to gather evidence and actually prove that they perjured themselves, so they've had to throw out all this evidence.
But it's taken a lot of work and it's cost me a lot of money to do that, right?
And most people can't do that.
So family courts basically work off of fabricated evidence.
That's number one.
Number two, there's really no appeal from family courts.
So family courts, unlike normal like civil courts or criminal courts, there's almost no appellate options out of a family court.
So the judges operate with no oversight and just do whatever they want.
And third, and this is the big one, There are massive federal programs that were instituted in the late 1970s that pay states trillions of dollars to tear families apart.
So it's so innocuous when I tell you, be like, this is a great program.
But like in Texas, we get 66 cents on the dollar put into the Texas Treasury for every dollar of child support that's paid.
Right?
So the state is now highly incentivized to issue the maximum amount of child support.
That's why almost all divorces got 50-50 prior to the 1980s.
And there was this skyrocketing of divorces where one parent loses custody.
And that was to maximize Title IV-D reimbursements to the states.
In Texas, it's half a billion dollars to the Texas budget.
ian crossland
If the state is profiting off of child support?
jeff younger
Correct.
And in most states, the judicial retirement fund is funded from this money.
So the more child support that's issued from the family courts, the larger the judicial retirement.
And it's a massive program.
It's the size of the largest defense programs.
So the incentives are absolutely huge.
ian crossland
To get people to pay child support?
jeff younger
Correct, correct.
ian crossland
Even married people, to get them to break up and then have to pay each other child support?
jeff younger
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
So, because you would think the best child support would just be 50-50 custody and let people raise their kids.
The best child support is to raise your own kid.
That's the best child support.
But they don't do that.
Most states actually have laws prohibiting the courts from doing that.
Texas has a family code in which it's assumed to be in the child's best interest that one parent get 24% of the time.
And the reason 24% was chosen, precisely, is it maximizes Title IV-D reimbursement to the state at 24%.
ian crossland
How does the maximization function come out at 24%?
jeff younger
So it has to do with how the state calculates child support.
So Texas has one of the worst child support systems in the state.
It doesn't take into account the income of both parents and it doesn't take into account the amount of time you spend with the child.
So there are fathers out there with 49% of the time that are paying maximal child support still.
ian crossland
Wow.
jeff younger
But again, that maximizes the reimbursement to the state.
I have a friend of mine, him and his wife came to an agreement to do 50-50 parenting, no child support, because he watches the kids a lot while she travels for her work.
And so it all worked out and they decided it's just better to do it this way.
The state of Texas sent an attorney.
To argue in the case that they should not be allowed to do 50-50 custody.
tim pool
I read a story about some celebrity guy who had to pay massive child support, and then he and the wife both went to the court together as friends and said, hey, he's no longer working and doesn't have this money anymore, so we both agree it should be lower, and the court said no.
jeff younger
They won't do it.
tim pool
Because they get a cut.
jeff younger
They get a huge kickback, yeah.
unidentified
Wow.
jeff younger
Now there's an even more evil program that's related to this Title IV-E.
Title IV-E pays the states to adopt out orphans.
libby emmons
What do you mean adopt out orphans?
jeff younger
So whenever CPS takes a child from someone and then adopts them into a good family, they get Title IV-E reimbursement funds.
And it's a lot of money.
It's like $50,000 per child.
libby emmons
The state gets that money?
jeff younger
Yes, it goes into the state budget.
libby emmons
And where does it come from?
jeff younger
Federal government.
libby emmons
Interesting.
jeff younger
Yep.
So what will happen in Texas is some satellite office of CPS will get low on budget.
And they'll go and find a white baby, under two years old, no medical problems, from working-class parents who can't afford a lawyer, and then they take the child and adopt it out, and then they get $50,000 for their budget.
That's how they do it.
unidentified
Wow.
jeff younger
There's massive incentives to split up families in this country, and that's why you've had the explosion of divorce and rancor.
So now you have the majority of children in America are being raised in fatherless homes.
We passed 50%.
tim pool
It sure does seem like there is a system in place, whether intentional or not, to reduce the population.
jeff younger
Unquestionably.
You talk about this, you call it a conspiracy theorist, right?
But they're blatant about it.
They're absolutely blatant about it.
But I think the agenda is not only population reduction, But also to reduce the political power of the middle class.
Right?
You've been to Europe.
Most of you have been to Europe.
I've been to Asia a lot as well.
Nobody cares about free speech there.
Nobody cares about gun rights there.
There's one place in the world where people care about free speech and gun rights, and that's the American middle class.
They have to disempower the American middle class to get rid of these things.
And so the best way to do that is to take fathers out of their homes.
tim pool
Yeah, well that's where you start breaking society down.
jeff younger
That's right.
tim pool
Destroy the family unit. 100%.
libby emmons
I mean, there's also definitely marriage disincentives.
tim pool
I blame Reagan.
libby emmons
We were talking about no-fault divorce.
But there's also tax breaks for you if you're a single parent.
And then if you're married, you don't get those tax breaks.
And it's a lot easier to get on to state-sponsored health insurance programs unless there's two of you.
If you're married, it's harder to get on them because you automatically make a little bit more money.
But if you're single, you can.
jeff younger
Yeah.
libby emmons
You can't get on the state plan.
ian crossland
There was something about this, I learned earlier, that in Texas, I believe it was you need both parents to consent to some sort of transgender surgery for a child, but then your wife or your ex-wife took the kid out of the state in order to bypass Texas state law.
So at that point, you would think Texas would be like, hey, hell no, that we're going to the federal government.
Come on, step in.
You can't just Leave our state and then break our law against the will of one of our state's citizens.
I would think that that would be the case.
jeff younger
Yes.
So, my case has been carefully reverse-engineered by leftist lawyers, it's very clear, to prevent me from taking a federal course of action.
What they did was, since my judge issued an order allowing her to move to California, it's very difficult for me to go into federal court and challenge a local judge's ruling.
There's something called the domestic relations exception in federal court.
A lot of people don't know this.
But the federal court just has a rule.
They don't take family court cases.
They just don't take them.
Like I told you, there's no appeal out of family court.
You're doomed.
Whatever the judge says goes.
And federal courts won't take them.
There's a very narrow exception to that on civil rights grounds, which I might be able to pull off.
ian crossland
What would that be?
jeff younger
So there's a really good US Supreme Court decision called Troxel.
And Troxel establishes 14th Amendment protections for parenting your children, and all of my judge's rulings violate Troxel.
So I'd have to get into a federal court, and the big challenge in federal court is it's very easy to dismiss federal cases.
Under Rule 12 of Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
So I'd have to really build an airtight case that would survive a dismissal challenge.
I'm thinking about that right now.
ian crossland
A violation of the 14th Amendment?
That's right, yeah.
jeff younger
And what's interesting is in my 2019 trial that I won, I got 50-50 custody, no child support, and I got 50-50 on all the conservator rights.
So she couldn't do any medical procedures without my permission.
tim pool
I think I remember hearing about that in the news.
But then how did she end up getting to move to California?
jeff younger
Here's how it worked.
So she retained the most powerful law firm in the state of Texas, a family law firm named Kunz Fuller.
They're also the largest donor to political campaigns.
So Texas has a loophole that you can buy judges, essentially.
As long as you donate to political campaigns.
Political activity is protected, and law firms cannot be recused from representing in a court even if they gave them a lot of money.
So they gave my current judge over $30,000.
Okay?
unidentified
$30,000.
jeff younger
So in a transparently corrupt recusal proceeding, they bought a judge emeritus to hear a recusal hearing, and all the judge where I won the trial, her name, it's a 255th District Court.
All she did, she went onto Facebook on the official page of the court and said, everyone in my court got a fair trial.
Which judges are allowed to say things like that.
They're allowed to assure the public that they're performing their public duty.
That's not recusable.
But on that basis they recused her, and then I wind up in this other court that this law firm gave $30,000 to, and this judge then systematically stripped me of all my parental rights using temporary orders.
Which is not legal in Texas, but I have no really course of appeal.
In Texas, you actually cannot appeal family court decisions.
You can only mandamus them.
You can't actually appeal them.
tim pool
So using these temporary rulings, she's... Systematically.
And what's interesting... But then she moves to California as a temporary right?
jeff younger
Yeah, and so they want to go to final trial now and establish that as a permanent right.
That's the idea.
libby emmons
Well, and the thing with California, too, is California has decided that they have no obligation to follow the laws of any other state.
jeff younger
That's correct.
libby emmons
By some miracle, you ended up having a Texas court say that your sons should come back from California.
California would refuse on the basis of their own law.
jeff younger
They won't send them back.
They are obligated by law to give my son gender-affirming health care.
They have to give it to him.
And a judge can consent without either parent consenting.
libby emmons
That's a Scott Wiener.
jeff younger
Yep.
libby emmons
State Senator Scott Wiener.
tim pool
Do you know if they've begun any medical procedures?
Chemical or?
jeff younger
No, because I don't get any information.
So she's been there since end of December and I have no information on my son at this point.
ian crossland
This is a federal, we need the federal government to step in.
libby emmons
The only issue with the federal government stepping in is you have the President of the United States who is in favor of child sex changes.
And the entire Health and Human Services Department.
And the Surgeon General.
tim pool
Let me pull up this article right here.
We have this article from the Postmillennial.
Biden's Surgeon General warns that 13-year-olds shouldn't use social media because they are still developing their identity.
Chris Elson wrote, So I think this shows the hypocrisy.
Yes, it does.
Yeah, clearly.
is too young for children to be on social media platforms because kids are still developing
their identity, what about puberty blockers, Vivek?
So I think this shows the hypocrisy.
Yes, it does.
Yeah, clearly.
libby emmons
Really fully.
Just straight out hypocrisy.
Yeah, so you have Vivek Murthy saying that children should not be on social media because they're still developing their identities, but he would also tell you that girls who are minors should be able to get abortions without parental consent and also that children should be able to determine their own gender identity.
tim pool
So I'm sure, Jeff, you're familiar with the story of John Money?
jeff younger
Oh yes, absolutely.
tim pool
Do you have concerns?
I mean, obviously you have concerns for your children over this.
jeff younger
Yeah, I mean, the way I put it to the jury when I was put on the stand was very simple.
I said, you know, if my sons go with me, they have a chance at a normal life.
If they go with her, they have no chance at a normal life and a good chance of living a life of despair.
And that's the choice, that's the Hobson's choice that we're giving all of these children, right?
And they're so obsessed with puberty blockers because the cure for gender dysphoria is called puberty.
Puberty is the cure for gender dysphoria.
Puberty is the process by which you come to identify with the social, psychological, and physical aspects of your sex.
That's what puberty actually is.
And so they desperately have to block puberty to maintain the gender dysphoria.
Over 90% of these kids, if you just don't do anything, just grow into normal adults.
A small proportion of them become gay in line with the normal population.
And then a small percentage of them continue to have problems.
tim pool
This feels like, at least to a certain degree, some of this is experimentation.
Like, we know from the story of John Money and what he did to, what was it, Brian and David were their names?
jeff younger
Brian and David.
tim pool
They both ended up killing themselves in different ways, and it's a horror story.
Now, that story is particularly horrifying because John Money was forcing them to simulate adult activities on each other when they were very young children.
So for those that aren't familiar with the story, I think most people are, but if you're not, basically you had twins, I think they're identical twins, were they?
jeff younger
They were identical.
tim pool
Yeah, and there was a botched circumcision, so John Money convinced the parents, you know, we'll raise one as a girl and one as a boy, and then I think almost immediately, it was, was Brian or was it, it was David.
jeff younger
David.
tim pool
David was the one who was made to live as a girl.
David knew that he was actually male.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
The whole time, and it caused great distress, so That's my fear.
In that thinking, though, there is the argument made by the left that that shows gender identity is inherent in the individual and that if a child is born male but has a female identity or wants to identify socially as a female and you don't do it, you'll end up with that situation.
jeff younger
Well, I have a kind of an unusual take for someone on the right.
I'm definitely on the right.
And that I do think gender is, in many ways, socially constructed.
And this always freaks people out, right?
Like, well, how can you be a right winger?
I believe that.
tim pool
Well, the social characteristics that we have built up around the biological sexes.
jeff younger
Correct, yeah.
And, in other words, you're born male, but you have to learn to be a man.
Your father teaches you how to be a man.
You follow in the footsteps of your forefathers and you learn how to be a man to assume your duties and rights and responsibilities as a man in your society.
And that has to be taught to you, right?
That kind of thing has to be taught to you.
But like everything else, the left wants to make it either or in these very strange ways.
You know, sure, there is a genetic component probably to gender identity.
There's a genetic component to all human behaviors, right?
It comes up a lot in the context of being gay.
People say, well, people are born gay.
They're not born gay.
There is a genetic component to being gay.
They know exactly what the genetic contribution is, because billions of dollars have been spent on it.
It's approximately equal to your food preferences.
And you're totally in control of what you eat.
So just because something has a genetic component doesn't mean it's outside of your volition.
ian crossland
Yeah, your genetics can be altered by your environment.
They can be turned on and off.
tim pool
I think this is phthalates and PCBs.
I've had the conversation with a lot of conservatives.
jeff younger
You're bringing up good stuff.
tim pool
We've had people on, I think even James Lindsay.
And I've talked to a lot of these people who say there's no such thing as trans kids, and I say, I disagree with that.
I think we've already seen the stories.
There was a birth control that women were taking that resulted in their female babies masculinizing in the womb, and then invariably, as they tracked them, they grew up to become lesbians.
And they're like, hey, we just realized that this birth control was actually doing this to the babies in the womb.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
In the event the woman got pregnant, despite being on birth control, they had masculinized female babies.
And so you take a look at the plastics.
This is why we've been using glass bottles for all our work.
We do have plastic bottles because some people just don't care, but I prefer to put everything in glass.
Because you have phthalates and PCBs, and that's just a couple of the endocrine disruptors that we've got research on.
So my hypothesis on this is, you know, you had Bill Maher who said, Why are we seeing so many trans kids?
You've got so many in California but not in Ohio, so either, what did he say, either there's something wrong between the states or we're creating them or something to that effect.
And I'm wondering if the reason we're seeing a massive spike in this is, I do think there's a social component, because we've actually seen that in research, but I think another component of this may be that We've expanded the use of plastics.
Plastic is over everything.
unidentified
It is.
tim pool
So, phthalates and PCBs in all of our food.
Then, you've also had these stories about birth control getting in the water supply.
Can't be filtered out, and then people are drinking it.
I think we are living in piles of our own filth in cities, which is making dirty water full of endocrine disruptors of any kind, and you're going to end up with people who are in the womb developing, and their brains are forming, and either through some kind of hormonal imbalance, some kind of chemical alteration through phthalates, a baby is born, and they have an inverted gender identity that doesn't match their body.
libby emmons
You can't discount the social contagion, though.
I mean, we're seeing like a 4,000% increase in girls who are deciding that they are actually boys.
We're seeing clusters of girls all transitioning together.
tim pool
And there are a lot of stories about people who have taken their children away from the school environments and their kids immediately detransition.
libby emmons
And it's also very trendy in some places.
Where my son had been going to school in New York City, trans was very trendy and some of his friends were coming in, like one day they were furries and the next day they were lesbians and then they were actually trans and then somebody else was trans because his girlfriend was trans and she was a lesbian now and like it would be a whole, it was a whole thing.
It was like a constant, every day there were like different identities going around and it was very trendy to be part of the whole identity thing.
ian crossland
It's really empowering to get people to believe you're someone you're not.
That's part of why I became an actor.
It's incredibly empowering.
They love it.
I love it.
And then you get paid for it.
But then these kids, I think they just want that empowerment.
libby emmons
Part of it, too, though, is we're talking about puberty, right?
So, Jeff, you brought this up.
We were talking about puberty.
What is puberty?
Puberty is the process by which it's, you know, development.
It's the process by which a child becomes an adult.
It's a coming-of-age process, right?
We've taken away so many of the coming-of-age rituals.
We've killed our gods, so, you know, we don't have coming-of-age rituals in our religion anymore at this point in the United States.
That's not common.
We don't have a lot of confirmations anymore, bat mitzvahs or anything like this.
So what we have for our main coming-of-age ritual in our country right now is coming out.
You can come out as something.
That's like the only American… It's the American coming-of-age Right, it's our rite of passage, right?
You come out as part of your rite of passage.
ian crossland
I thought it was getting your driver's license.
libby emmons
No, it used to be getting your driver's license, but now that's 16, it's 18.
tim pool
Isn't it like Quinceañera thing?
libby emmons
Quinceañera, yeah, that's like a... In Mexico, right?
Yeah, in Mexico, that kind of thing.
tim pool
Is there a male version of that?
I don't know what they do down there.
libby emmons
Well, you know, you do like a 16th birthday party, but it's not the same kind of thing.
You know what I mean?
Like this is our main rite of passage.
It used to be, I remember when I was a kid and the whole thing, like everybody wanted to lose their virginity as quickly as possible.
tim pool
But that's very different from like a bar mitzvah.
libby emmons
Right.
Yeah, it's very different.
But now you can go through a rite of passage of coming out.
And what are the things you get to do?
You get to change your name.
You get to start choosing your own clothes.
You get to dictate how other people are going to treat you.
You're going to call me by this name.
You're going to refer to me even when I'm not there with these very specific phrases.
tim pool
It feels like a lot of RPG video games, your character will start off as like training mode or whatever.
So actually this reminds me of MapleStory, which I don't know if it exists anymore.
But your character starts in like levels 1 through 10.
You have no specialty.
And then once you get to level 10, you get to choose your class.
Like, what are you?
What are you going to be?
It feels very much like what they're trying to do.
jeff younger
Well, there's one thing.
I think video games do play into the social contagion because a lot of boys play girl characters in FPS shooters mainly because you just don't want to look at a guy's ass when you go to third person.
You want to see a girl's ass when you're playing, right?
tim pool
Third person.
jeff younger
Yeah, if you switch to third person, you can play it with a girl character.
It's more pleasing to you.
The other thing though, you mentioned these PCBs.
We can actually objectively quantify that.
So the United States Marine Corps has grip strength data going back to the Revolutionary War.
They administered grip strength tests at Tons Tavern when they commissioned the Marine Corps.
So it literally goes all the way back to the very beginning.
So they have the ultimate longitudinal data set.
Grip strength among men today is 30% what it was 50 years ago.
Oh no.
That's rough.
tim pool
Not me though, I got good grip.
ian crossland
Hell yeah.
tim pool
I actually act like a guitarist.
jeff younger
It turns out grip strength is one of the best proxies, physical proxies, for testosterone levels.
unidentified
Wow.
jeff younger
So the Marine Corps won't even let you go to recruit training anymore unless you show up for a year of physical training to prevent training deaths.
That's how bad it is.
libby emmons
So the handshake, the handshake test, that's real.
jeff younger
It's a legit thing.
It's a legit thing.
tim pool
It's plastic, man.
ian crossland
I've heard that hanging is some of the best things you can do for a person, like hang from a tree branch and just hang.
jeff younger
Well, that's what the Marine Corps has you do.
If you have weak grips, just hang.
unidentified
Really?
Yeah.
jeff younger
Hang for 20 minutes before you get chow.
You don't get to eat until you hang.
tim pool
Wow.
jeff younger
That's what they make you do, yeah.
tim pool
Well, sperm count's also on the decline.
jeff younger
Yeah, which is another great marker.
A completely objective marker of testosterone levels.
tim pool
This is the crazy thing.
So, if you look back at, like, we used to drink mercury to try and cure syphilis.
These things didn't work, but the hope was that you'd poison yourself so much that I don't know what they were thinking.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't understand this.
Like, the people would just die from drinking it.
What made them think in any way it would help them?
Or like, oh, well, the syphilis must have got them.
But then we have asbestos.
Yeah.
And asbestos actually is fine until you disturb it.
But then we started realizing, like, hey, if we're going to start clearing out these buildings and doing remodeling, all of a sudden people are getting mesothelioma.
So we get rid of it.
Now, here's the problem with PCBs.
They've warped our minds.
We are now in a, as a society, in a delusional state.
And when a person, let's say a person gets hypoxic, you cannot save yourself.
That's why they say put on your oxygen mask before putting the mask on somebody else.
If our society has been plagued by PCBs and you wonder why it is that you've got to divide between urban and rural, why the Democrats in the cities believe this and people in the country don't, perhaps it's because the people in the cities are gargling and swimming in endocrine disruptors that people who are on well water are not.
jeff younger
And I grew up on well water in a farm and ranch in Texas.
tim pool
So what happens then is, as a society that is assuming the endocrine disruptors are doing this, if half of the mind of our society, this body, has been altered in some way, how will you make a sound decision to
correct the behavior?
unidentified
A person who is... I actually never thought of that. That's a great point.
tim pool
Right, our minds... so it's not just this issue, I mean it's also drugs and
libby emmons
everything else. Sure. So it's like if you can't think, you can't think your way out
tim pool
of it. Right. If you were on a plane, the reason they say put on your mask before
someone else's is because if you're all hypoxic, you die.
If one person can get their mask on, they can think straight, they can save everybody.
But we're in a place now where half the people aren't wearing their mask and so when you're with your mask on saying put the mask on, they're swinging at you and they're in a rage and then just collapsing.
You can't vote your way out of it.
jeff younger
Yeah.
ian crossland
You gotta appeal to the gut.
That's the only way.
If the brain can't understand or isn't capable from desensitization, you can get through the gut.
jeff younger
You know, we talked a little bit earlier about the depopulation agenda.
You know, I have friends in Europe and they always make fun of us in America for some of the crazy stuff here.
The wokeness.
The fact that we pay 3% on our own money.
Interest on our own money and our own treasury is bizarre.
They laugh about these things.
And I just tell them, I just tell them like, Maybe you should have some mercy, because we're probably the most heavily propagandized population in the history of the world.
The most sophisticated propaganda regime ever launched against a people has been launched against Americans.
And they can't actually see reality right in front of them.
They'll deny the evidence of their own senses.
It's a bizarre experience.
And I can tell you, running for office, talking to normie conservative Republicans, Many of them actually still believe the Constitution constrains the government, and that we should make constitutional arguments to restore the Republic.
And you're like, the Constitution hasn't constrained the U.S.
government in a hundred years.
It's a completely irrelevant document.
How can you still keep saying these things?
It's because they're heavily propagandized.
We should not underestimate how effective the propaganda has been to warp people's visions.
tim pool
Well, the issue is you've got prominent Individuals who make a lot of money just agreeing with whatever the machine wants them to agree with.
So to go back to the oxygen mask analogy, if half the people in this country are inundated with PCBs and other chemicals that's damaging their brain or causing them to just have alterations to their mindset, neurodivergence as it were, then someone comes along and says, I don't know about that, but if I agree with them, they'll give me money.
That's what's happening.
jeff younger
The famous observation that it's hard to get a man to change his mind about something if he's being paid to believe it.
tim pool
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's a good one.
jeff younger
It's a very simple concept.
But, you know, the basic operation of modern propaganda is to demoralize people.
But I don't mean it in the sense of making them feel bad.
I mean to literally remove morals.
tim pool
Yes, I was going to ask.
Because people often talk about demoralization and half the people think you're talking about low morale.
jeff younger
Exactly.
tim pool
When you're talking about the removal of morals.
jeff younger
The removal of morals.
Because you can't understand reality without moral reasoning.
This is also something that Heidegger talks about.
This is why artificial intelligence is impossible.
Because moral reasoning is required It's required to make judgments about the world, right?
tim pool
I wouldn't say impossible, I would just say it's not going to turn out the way we want it to.
libby emmons
A big part of what's been going on, though, is that the... No, I'm sorry, go ahead.
jeff younger
No, no, it's okay.
libby emmons
I think that in a lot of cases the goal of, you know, whoever's doing this is to remove our ability to make judgments.
jeff younger
That's right.
libby emmons
You know, they want us to not be able to differentiate between right and wrong or good and bad.
ian crossland
Simply because they want the order to maintain?
libby emmons
Well, because they want to get their thing across, you know?
jeff younger
Well, it turns out that discriminating between right and wrong is important to discriminating between red, white, and blue, falling down, going upstairs.
Like, the apprehension of physical reality is informed by morality.
It turns out there's a reflexive relationship between the two.
And by removing this moral judgment, you can remove the ability of people to understand what's happening to them.
libby emmons
And that's what's going on, too, with the drag story hours and everything.
You have kids come in, they look around and they're like, this is super creepy.
And then the parents are like, no, this is totally normal and good.
tim pool
But explain the AI thing.
Why do you think it's not possible?
jeff younger
So what we're really doing with AI is we're doing fancy curve fitting.
So, and we put a nice name on it, we do all this stuff, but what it is basically doing is curve fitting to very complicated functions.
And it can mimic a lot of the decision-making abilities of humans.
It can be really effective if it's layered, so-called deep learning, where it's layered.
So you're doing essentially curve fitting on curve fitting on curve fitting on curve fitting.
But what it can't do is things that humans do. It cannot look at its environment
and make judgments independently about its environment. Like one of the
hardest problems in AI is to teach a system to just recognize a kitten. It's a notoriously
difficult problem to get it to just optically recognize a kitten, something which a two-week-old
newborn can do.
tim pool
What do you mean it can't recognize a kitten?
jeff younger
It turns out that kittens have a fuzzy enough look that it's very difficult for them to discriminate it.
But yet a child with the kinesthetic perception, once it holds... Remember, we're talking about two-week-old infants that don't have object permanence.
So when you remove it from their sight, they think it doesn't exist anymore.
That's why you can play peek-a-boo with kids, because you appear again out of nowhere, right?
They don't have object permanence.
But you could teach a child that age to discriminate a kitten, but you can't teach AI.
It's very difficult to do.
tim pool
We'll get there, I think, though.
jeff younger
And also one of the harsh problems is called the The location problem.
What if you just plop an AI down in a hallway and get it to recognize where it is?
Figure out where it is.
This turns out to be extremely hard without the contextual information provided by innate human knowledge about the world.
In some sense, what Kant was talking about, that there are categories of perception by which we structure knowledge.
That's not possible for AIs.
tim pool
Well, I think we just haven't developed the technology to get there.
I think it's possible that, have you seen like the Boston Dynamics robot?
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
I think you can put some kind of algorithmic learning system within it and let it mill about and eventually it'll start discovering and mapping things and then understanding and all that stuff.
jeff younger
No, I actually don't disagree that it would do that.
But what I'm disagreeing with is whether that's intelligence.
unidentified
Yeah.
jeff younger
Let me give you an example.
tim pool
I suppose that goes to the question of the soul then, ultimately.
jeff younger
Sort of, but actually we can just restrict ourselves to just mathematical logic.
You know, in mathematical logic there's two separate categories of research.
One is called model theory, one is called proof theory.
When your computers here do mathematics or arithmetic, they don't understand what the numbers mean, right?
So it turns out that what mathematicians are actually doing is they're creating what are called formal languages.
And these formal languages have three particular elements that make them up, and they've been thoroughly studied.
Mathematical logic is like the linguistics of mathematics, and studies these languages.
They have one particular property that natural languages don't have, and that is that every grammatically correct sentence is guaranteed to be true.
tim pool
What do you mean by that?
Elaborate.
jeff younger
So, if you follow the rules of algebra, you don't need to know what the numbers mean.
You'll get the right answer.
As long as you followed all the rules, you'll get the right answer.
tim pool
You could see symbols on a page.
jeff younger
And know that that was enough.
That's called proof-theoretic reasoning.
We're just using grammar rules.
tim pool
To simplify, if I understand that three, as a symbol, represents three objects, and you can represent that with, say, sticks, even if I did not know what those represented, if you knew the rules of how the numbers play with each other... You'd still get the right answer.
jeff younger
So that's how computers do mathematics.
tim pool
Right.
The computer doesn't know that two would be represented by two physical objects.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
It doesn't know what two means.
jeff younger
It doesn't know what it means.
But humans usually do mathematics using model theory.
Where the number means something.
In mathematical logic, a model is when you actually assign meaning to the undefined terms.
So if you're doing geometry, you have points and lines, you give them some meaning.
Say a point is a dot on a page and a line is a straight ruler on a page.
You give it a meaning.
Well, here's the amazing thing about formal languages.
That any sentence that's grammatically true, just for proof theory without any meaning to the terms, is guaranteed to be true in all models.
So it turns out no matter how you define points and lines, if the axioms are true in that model, all of the sentences will be true too.
So all the theorems are true.
That's not true in natural language.
So what the AIs are really doing is a kind of proof-theoretic way of trying to make their
way in the world.
It's not, doesn't understand the meaning of what it's doing.
This is a, that's what you find terrifying about them.
tim pool
I find the whole thing terrifying because I think where we're headed is, I saw an ad
for a program that can generate any video.
So everybody's been playing with these various AI model, model, uh, art programs.
There was like Stable Diffusion.
We did a bunch of bits on the show where we like, you know, Donald Trump hugging Joe Biden, and the photo's awful and doesn't really work.
But now you've gotten, what's that really popular one that everybody's using?
ian crossland
G-P-T?
tim pool
No, no, no, no, the picture generator.
unidentified
Oh my god.
jeff younger
I use Nightcatcher.
It's called Mid-Journey.
tim pool
What was that?
You just bumped us off?
unidentified
It's because I took the mic off and I just hit the wrong button.
tim pool
Everybody's using Mid Journey, but there's another app that can make videos.
Now, obviously, there's a big controversy over Deep Porn, where that streamer was watching it, and so I think where we're going is Right now, what we can see, based on the tools that exist, it is entirely possible to combine these things and say, okay, give me the scene, it's a bar, and there's three guys, and they're about to have a fight.
You could create the AI models, then tell the machine to make this scene with these models, and it will.
You will be able to write a movie and then press go, and it will apply the script, the character names, the description of everything.
jeff younger
I agree.
tim pool
The script can be put in, and this is possible literally right now.
All we have to do is combine the components that already exist and are purchasable.
You can then take an existing script file, name, description, character, sound of their voice, it's all in the script, and then the machine will render that for you.
But here's the thing.
That's technology today that we simply need to connect.
It already exists.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
Where we will actually go is you will be sitting in your room and you'll be like, uh, computer, Make me a movie about cowboys in 1870 and they awaken a dragon and he's got to save his son.
And the machine will just generate everything instantly for you.
The scary thing to me about how nightmarish it is, is We are going to, especially with Neuralink and VR, we are going to tell the computer, generate for me a world where I am the king and everyone loves me and I have to fight a dragon.
And then you put that set on and you go into this soulless, masturbatory fake reality.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
That's where we're headed.
libby emmons
Yes, that's where we're headed.
jeff younger
Yes.
I agree with all that.
libby emmons
The question then becomes, what is humanity?
And what do we want humanity to be?
And what do we feel our value is?
And do we have a value beyond how we can entertain ourselves?
tim pool
I read a great quote a long time ago, and it said, if humans ever shake hands with aliens, they will be congratulating each other not because they've overcome nuclear weapons, but because they've overcome the Xbox.
That is, everything that we are doing as humans is to trigger our dopamine.
You take a look at how humans used to live, and we talked about this with Jack Posobiec, I think.
It used to be the norm that you would be out in the middle of nowhere struggling to find food, that you wouldn't always have everything you needed.
Then we figured out how to basically isolate everything.
So what do we do?
We take pure sugar, combine it with pure fat, and then we guzzle it down until our hearts stop working.
ian crossland
Speak for yourself.
I'm done with that, Craig.
I don't either.
tim pool
I stopped doing that a while ago.
ian crossland
Thank God.
tim pool
I mean, a dessert here and there is fine, but imagine this, that we've taken beets and we've extracted the sugar and hyper-concentrated them.
We took an orange, which is delicious and healthy, and we smashed all that juice.
That one wasn't even hard.
So what we're doing is whatever feels good, but we're just basically electrocuting ourselves, overstimulating until we die.
ian crossland
That makes me think we were talking about earlier about morality, because I think some people conflate morality and pain.
They think that if it's painful, that means that it's not moral.
But the reality is a lot of painful things are the moral thing to do.
tim pool
I want to bring something up in this vein.
So this is something my friend sent to me earlier today and I get this text message with a very weird audio clip of my friend telling me that he's obsessed with Joe Biden.
And I'm just like, what are you, what is this?
It's like not a very political guy.
And then he sends me a link to 11labs.io where you can add anyone's voice.
I put my voice in and I'll just leave it at this.
I don't want to name anybody because I don't want to, I don't, This is a creepy thing.
But there are a variety of different podcast hosts.
I've uploaded, I took a sample of their voice, and I was able to deepfake their voice in two seconds.
I'm not exaggerating.
I clicked add voice, drag and drop mp3, thumb snap, and it does it.
So first, I'll show you this.
This is speech synthesis from Eleven Labs.
This is their generic atom.
It's what their default is.
I typed in, this is not a real person talking, it's a deepfake.
Let's generate, see what it sounds like.
ian crossland
We need volume.
tim pool
Do we have volume?
unidentified
Uh, yeah.
tim pool
It's generating, though, so it takes a second.
ian crossland
Oh, cool.
tim pool
Yeah, gotta give it a second.
ian crossland
This is so freaky.
I heard my own voice earlier today.
tim pool
And we're gonna play your voice.
unidentified
This is not a real person talking.
ian crossland
It's a deep fake.
tim pool
Let's try that again.
unidentified
This is not a real person talking.
It's a deep fake.
tim pool
There you go.
So, you can type in basically anything.
And, um, when I first heard this, I went...
Well, that's really cool.
I've heard robot voices before, I'm not super concerned about it.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
But then, we decided to, uh... Oh, which one should I play?
ian crossland
Play them all.
tim pool
Here we go.
unidentified
Hi, I'm Luke Rudowsky, and I don't know how to pronounce my own last name.
ian crossland
That's Seamus Coghlan, by the way.
Well, it's a deepfake of Seamus Coghlan.
tim pool
Of Seamus?
ian crossland
That's Seamus, yeah.
tim pool
That was Luke.
ian crossland
That sounded like Seamus.
tim pool
That was Luke.
ian crossland
Play that again.
unidentified
Hi, I'm Luke Rudowsky, and I don't know how to pronounce my own last name.
ian crossland
I'm gonna go with Seamus.
libby emmons
I think that's Luke.
ian crossland
Hey, what's up, guys?
I'm Ian Crossland, and I'm not wearing any pants today.
That sounds like Chris Poole!
jeff younger
No, that sounded just like him.
ian crossland
And I'm not wearing any pants today.
Ever.
Ever.
I really like that guy.
unidentified
That does sound- He did some really great things, like bringing peace to the Middle East.
tim pool
You gotta let it play, Ian.
ian crossland
Trump is the best president ever.
I really like that guy.
unidentified
He did some really great things, like bringing peace to the Middle East.
tim pool
So we have a whole bunch of different... Should I play it?
ian crossland
Yeah, play it.
It's so weird because I'm not responsible for what comes out of that guy's mouth.
Dude, don't tell Wesley I told you this, but we kissed last night.
I think we're in love.
I do love Wesley, by the way, but not like that.
tim pool
So, I don't want to play other people's voices that aren't affiliated with this company or the show, but let me just tell you, name your favorite high-profile personality.
It is freaky good on some of them.
ian crossland
You got all those voice clips from one MP3 that you sent the machine?
tim pool
I took like five to ten seconds of different people's voices, uploaded it, there was no rendering.
jeff younger
Five to ten seconds if you do it.
tim pool
There was no rendering time.
jeff younger
That's amazing.
tim pool
No rendering time.
You just upload it, and then I pressed, the rendering is when you type in the text, and we were able to make Ian say a whole bunch of stuff.
jeff younger
Did you try your voice?
tim pool
My voice didn't work.
ian crossland
Do you have an example?
unidentified
What?
No.
jeff younger
Why would that be?
tim pool
Because it wasn't, I have no idea, I wasn't able to do it.
I put in a, not that large of a file, because 10 megabytes is the maximum, and what came out sounded just kind of like someone trying to impersonate me by talking quickly, but it didn't sound like me.
And my brother tried it, it didn't work on him either.
So I'm glad about that, by the way.
This really freaked me out because some of the voices we were able to generate, and again the reason I'm not naming these people because you have to imagine what it would be like if someone were to play your voice.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
It is freaky.
libby emmons
So what's the upshot of all of this?
There's no upshot.
So once we have everybody's voice and deep porn and like all of this stuff, how are you ever going to tell somebody who you are as opposed to who the fake you is?
tim pool
People are going to Take the voice of a famous actress, and they're gonna put it in this, and they're gonna generate her saying things like, I love you.
libby emmons
Sure.
tim pool
I will marry you.
Oh, your dream come true.
libby emmons
Sure.
tim pool
Yes, exactly.
That's the vanilla version.
Then they're gonna put their face on the body.
libby emmons
Of course.
tim pool
And they're gonna put the VR headset on.
And that's where we're headed.
libby emmons
That's exactly where we're at.
tim pool
So, real life, and now imagine Neuralink, where you can actually trigger sensory perception.
So now people are just telling the machine, create for me Celebrity X, and we're on our honeymoon, wink wink, you know where this is going, and then... Oh dear.
libby emmons
Well, you wouldn't even have to say wink wink, you would just do the thing.
tim pool
I'm saying wink wink to the audience here.
libby emmons
Oh, I see.
tim pool
I get it, you get it.
libby emmons
What concerns me, I think what you were mentioning earlier, Jeff, is that... Because people do weird stuff when they're by themselves.
ian crossland
Like the...
How the AI doesn't understand context like humans do.
So if the creator of the program wants to alter the definition of a word, you're like, I want to go out for a horse ride with my favorite.
And they're like, OK, change what a horse means slightly.
And there's no way to contextualize.
Could the AI not look at all horses across all time and decide what a horse is?
jeff younger
Yeah, that's what I mean by curve fitting.
It can kind of generate A general image of a horse.
It can even look at particular aspects of horses and do that.
It just doesn't understand what it really is.
ian crossland
Yeah.
jeff younger
And it can't deliver that thing that is like reality.
Even with Neuralink, I think, it won't be able to quite do that.
tim pool
Well, that's what I think Cypher said in Matrix, the reason everything tastes like chicken.
Cypher said that, right?
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
Everything tastes like chicken because the robots didn't know what they didn't know what it tastes like.
unidentified
Yeah.
libby emmons
So the thing then becomes, too, who's going to maintain the machine?
jeff younger
That's the ethical AI question that comes up a lot.
tim pool
I talked about this on the show a bit, my sci-fi TV show idea.
I'll give you the simple version.
Did you hear me talk about this before?
jeff younger
I have, yes.
Go ahead.
tim pool
So the general idea is it's like the last city on earth, and for some reason the world is disrepair and destroyed.
It's post-apocalyptic.
Nobody in the last city knows why.
There's maybe like 10 million people.
And so they sent out scouting parties.
One day a scouting party comes across strange, slender, humanoid beings, super thin and tall, in like chrome suits that have advanced technology that just wipe them out and kill them.
And then the central conflict is between these groups.
The humans think these are aliens that came and wiped out all of humanity.
The end of the season is the revelation.
And it's like, if this was ever to be made a show, it'd totally be ruined by me telling you this.
But the revelation is that these are actually humans.
And what happened is, around the end of the 2000s, 2099 or whatever, Humans began rapidly migrating to pods with Neuralink, just like how cell phones were adopted in a matter of a year or two.
Everybody had one.
Everybody eventually switches to the digital economy and lives in pods where all of their desires are maintained.
So all the cities start falling into disrepair because the only thing you need to maintain is the machines that have feeding tubes into people's bellies
like the matrix to keep them alive as they experience paradise however they want. But
periodically scout groups have to go out to maintain the machine, refuel it. Humans who did not
go into these systems don't know what happened because think about it this way.
If you were trying to understand the world right now but did not have the internet, would you know what was going on?
libby emmons
No, you'd have very little idea.
tim pool
Exactly.
So if all news migrates to the metaverse and the people who, outside of it, don't have access to it, people who refuse to join for religious reasons or because they lived in the middle of nowhere and didn't have strong internet, just didn't care.
libby emmons
So this is like, so the city as it exists in your scenario is like a few generations down the road.
tim pool
A few generations after, so like 2150.
libby emmons
After the pod thing, yeah.
tim pool
So there's no records.
Right.
They're going online and they're like, for some reason all internet records just cease around this point and newspapers stop getting printed.
Something wiped out humanity, we don't know what.
libby emmons
But it's not that they got wiped out, it's that they're like... They migrated.
Right.
tim pool
They migrated to a place where they weren't interacting anymore.
Right now, people in cities have cell phones.
You still know people exist in cities.
You can still get a newspaper.
You can still drive to the city.
But if everybody left the city, went underground into a pod to live forever, or for every 70 years, you would never see them.
All you would know is one day you walked into the city and there were very few people.
Nobody's working.
libby emmons
This is the plot of the Machine Stops, the E.M.
Forrester.
novella was written in what, 1911?
That everybody goes underground?
Yeah, everybody goes underground, and they are fed and cared for by the machine.
And they, they basically like mating happens by machine hookups, and all of this stuff.
And then the machine, it stops.
It stops.
tim pool
A hundred years later.
libby emmons
And then a whole bunch of wacky stuff happens.
tim pool
People are being born in pods who've never experienced the real world and will never leave.
And there's only specially designated humans who are reality scouts to make sure the machine is functioning who go out periodically.
jeff younger
Got it.
tim pool
With advanced technology because once everyone's in the machine, scientific simulation is rapid and exponential with all the power of the AI that they have.
So then they have automation which can synthesize and replicate and advance beyond people who live outside the machine.
libby emmons
We're looking at a situation where we're going to have Neuralink, we're going to have all these deep fakes and whatnot so that you can create your own reality inside your own pod, and we're going to have world government that keeps us specifically from moving around so that we don't mess up the environment.
jeff younger
You'll own nothing and be happy.
libby emmons
We'll own nothing.
We'll be in our pods.
tim pool
You could be in it right now.
libby emmons
We'll have no freedom of movement.
tim pool
You could be in it right now for all you know.
libby emmons
And then you're going to have one person who's Winston in 1984 or the Sun character in The Machine Stops or K in The Trial or The Castle.
You're going to have this guy who's just looking around trying to figure it out.
tim pool
Or you're in it right now.
libby emmons
Well, I don't think we're in it right now.
tim pool
You wouldn't know.
jeff younger
Have any of you seen a classic sci-fi film called Forbidden Planet from the 1960s?
No.
It's about a civilization that did this, essentially.
They created machines that could satisfy their every desire merely with mental stimulus.
And they developed from that machines that had near-infinite power.
It just, you know, in the 1960s all that all happened on Mars, right?
And so you find out that they destroyed themselves towards the end of this movie because what they didn't count on was the Id.
The monsters from the Id.
The subconscious mind began to make another reality, a terrifying reality, that destroyed them.
Because one of the things that in such a world where you're in a pod and you can make any world, your unconscious mind could take control and build things in the AI that you don't necessarily want.
And I always remembered that phrase from that movie, The Monsters from the Id.
tim pool
Elon likes to talk about simulation theory.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
And the general idea is that... He thinks we're in one.
Well, the idea is that within the next 10 years, we will be able to create virtual reality indistinguishable from base reality.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
And if that's the case, it stands to reason It's already been done before us.
Or that if we did and were to create it, it could have been created and we could be in it.
So there's a simple mathematical formula.
libby emmons
There's very little differentiation between saying that we're in a simulation and it's all been created and saying that there's a god.
tim pool
Identical.
Identical in every way.
jeff younger
I have to point out, this is Nietzsche's idea of the eternal recurrence, by the way.
tim pool
Yeah.
jeff younger
What is that exactly?
It's the same concept.
He says, look, everything that's been done has been done before, and it occurred exactly the same way.
libby emmons
Well, in the 90s we just said everything was derivative.
jeff younger
Yeah, yeah.
tim pool
So what I say is it's not a simulation, it's an MMORPG.
What's that?
A massive multiplayer online role-playing game.
libby emmons
Yeah, yeah.
My son was telling me the other day he thinks we're living on the edge of the simulation.
And I was like, why do you think we're not in the simulation?
tim pool
It's not a simulation.
It's a game.
Yeah.
I think it's like, if it if it, you know, people say simulation, simulation, and I'm like, right.
I don't know.
I think I put my my bet on MMORPG, meaning a large number of people are players and a large number of people are non playing characters that facilitate the existence of the game.
jeff younger
I actually don't think that there's... The NPCs would explain a lot.
tim pool
Exactly.
libby emmons
Yeah, I don't think that there are any NPCs.
I think that does a disservice to humanity and our relationship with a higher power.
Well, I think there are NPCs.
Have you seen this recent spike?
tim pool
Animals are non-player characters.
libby emmons
I understand why you would think that there are non-player characters of human beings.
But I don't think it just does those people a disservice.
I think it does us a disservice in our understanding of humanity.
tim pool
That moral argument doesn't change my perspective on people being NPCs.
libby emmons
I don't want to believe it.
tim pool
They're not truly non-human.
They have personalities.
jeff younger
Have you seen this recent research that about a third of human beings don't have an inner monologue?
ian crossland
Yeah, what's up with that?
I don't know how to confirm or deny that.
libby emmons
That freaked me out.
tim pool
That's what I'm talking about.
And have you ever seen the test of mental imagery?
jeff younger
No.
tim pool
They say, when you're told to think of an apple, what do you see?
And then they showed varying pictures of apples.
Some people can't visualize anything, nor can they think words in their own mind.
libby emmons
My son was asking me the other day, he was like, Mom, do you think in sentences, like, you're talking to yourself?
And I was like, yeah.
And he was like, yeah, me too.
unidentified
I was like, okay.
ian crossland
I think you gotta learn.
tim pool
It's called an inner monologue.
Some people don't have one.
libby emmons
I think that's wacky.
How do you go about life and figure out how to make decisions if you're not constantly in communication with yourself?
tim pool
So I was reading this story a long time ago, and I was hanging out with my friends, and I was reading, and I was like, whoa.
I was like, they're saying that a third of people don't have an inner monologue, and then one of my friends said, what's an inner monologue?
And I said, like, when you're thinking, sometimes you're thinking like you're speaking, almost.
Like, in your mind, you have a train of thought that is various words.
And then my friend was like, I don't know what that is.
Here's the other thing, too.
I've got multilingual friends who will explain their inner monologue switches back and forth because they speak in different languages.
And I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
And then there's some people tell me they don't have one.
And I asked my friend, like, then what are you thinking?
And they're like, I don't know.
And I'm just like, what's in your mind?
Like, do you see pictures?
Because the craziest thing for me is, you know, when I do these videos where I'm like just talking in a stream of consciousness, I'm actually on a multi-track mindset.
Sometimes when I'm reading articles and talking, I'm imagining, like, I'm scheduling my day, I'm doing a bunch of things.
unidentified
Wow.
tim pool
Yeah, so, to hear that some people don't even have a single tract was like, how do you function?
Is it, like, stimuli?
This is why I think that, not this solely, I don't think everyone who doesn't have an inner monologue is an NPC, but I think this is indicative of the fact that some people are NPCs, and we talked about on this show, there's this, I can't remember who brought it up, maybe you know it, Ian, the theory that there's a finite number of souls, And that there's too many humans on the planet, so not every person is in soul.
libby emmons
That's horrifying.
That's a horrifying thought.
ian crossland
Yeah, I think it's more of a resolution.
tim pool
You might not want to believe it, but there's no argument to believe or disbelieve.
ian crossland
I think it's like a resolution scaling system where, like, I used to picture an apple, it was red, round, apple.
But now I picture, like, a highly refined, I can see the light shimmering off it when I visualize it, only because I've developed my brain and my ability to, by letting go of my shame and stuff like that.
So, I think it's not that they don't have it, it's that they can't really see it, because they don't understand what it is.
But it's there, communicating.
Their subconscious is constantly in communication.
unidentified
Think about this.
jeff younger
If you believe in the subconscious.
I'm a skeptic on the subconscious.
tim pool
Do you believe animals have souls?
No.
jeff younger
I'm an orthodox Christian.
tim pool
Exactly.
A typical Christian belief, only humans have souls.
Right.
Play a video game like GTA.
Do animals... Or no, no, let's do... Let's play Skyrim.
jeff younger
Okay.
Do the animals have... Let's just play on that yesterday.
tim pool
Do the animals in that game have souls?
unidentified
No.
tim pool
Well, nobody's playing them.
There's no... No one is in control.
They just do this programmed-based thing.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
Now, for a single-player game like Skyrim, no one but you has a soul, because all the other things, you know... Now, in an MMO, you know that many of these people that are running around doing things, these other players... They're people.
They have souls.
There's a player behind it.
But there are also animals running around that have no soul.
I look around at the planet, and I look at animals, and I don't see them as having souls.
I like Bucko.
I don't think he has a soul.
ian crossland
How do you define a soul?
tim pool
A player character.
I do not think animals are player characters.
ian crossland
Do you think they're conscious?
tim pool
I think there's varying degrees of what we define as consciousness, but I do not believe that animals have souls.
ian crossland
Do you think they're sentient?
tim pool
Well, perhaps elephants and maybe dolphins and some larger whales.
ian crossland
Someone was saying Jesus is alive, Jesus Christ is alive, and I was like, I think what you want to start saying is Jesus Christ is sentient.
Because his body died, so he's dead, but his soul lives on in the form of sentience, this like field of magnet—of whatever it is, if it's plasma or something greater than that, that's still there interacting with us.
jeff younger
Well, in orthodoxy, we reject the ghost-in-the-machine idea.
So, we don't believe that a soul and a body are separate things.
unidentified
So, the way I have tried to describe this… So, would you say that you're like a physicalist?
jeff younger
Yes, in a way.
The way I've tried to explain this to secular people is, you could look upon a soul as a transmitter, right?
And the software program that runs the hardware that does the transmission is the soul, right?
But you could also look at the soul as a receiver.
There's a transmission from God, and your body is capable of receiving this transmission, and understanding it, and even interpreting it in certain ways.
And when you die, the signal doesn't go away.
The signal doesn't stop.
ian crossland
That's what I'm thinking.
I think so, like you've got your own magnetic field that's interpreting the greater field, and then that would be… That's why we believe in bodily resurrection.
jeff younger
The body will be resurrection, otherwise your soul wouldn't be resurrected, because we're embodied beings.
tim pool
I think about simulation theory in terms of video games, and you were mentioning, Libby, there's no difference between a simulation and saying it's created.
And we've talked about this before, I completely agree.
jeff younger
The world is created.
Do you think the world's created?
tim pool
Created?
Well, I don't know.
So, I don't know.
Agnostic, for the most part.
I'm not atheist, though.
I do believe in God.
But created, I guess.
I guess the simple answer is yes.
And perhaps the process of whether you're believing in solid state theory or big bang theory, whatever you want to believe, all of that is the process of creation.
ian crossland
Well, it's just transmutation.
Nothing can ever be created or destroyed.
libby emmons
That's what I – when I was teaching CCD at my church, I had a kid come in and his mom was making him go to – it's like catechism.
It's when you're preparing for confirmation, which is – I'm glad to hear that still goes on.
jeff younger
It's great.
libby emmons
One of the sacraments.
Yeah, and so his mom was making him go, and he was like, I'm an atheist.
And I'm like, okay, kid, you're 13.
Like, that's cool, being an atheist.
And he was like, I don't believe in an afterlife.
And I was like, okay, so what about that energy can neither be created nor destroyed?
And he was like, yeah, okay, I believe in science.
And I was like, okay, so what happens to your energy when you die?
And he was like, I don't know, it goes back into something.
And I'm like, right, so it doesn't die, right?
So your energy in some form, even in your scientific atheist understanding
of the world goes somewhere.
It has to continue on without it.
ian crossland
It might be true that energy can be created or destroyed, I just, we think it can't be at this stage.
libby emmons
We think it can't be, sure.
And he thought it couldn't be, so I got him on it.
jeff younger
What's your favorite video game?
I actually still like Skyrim, especially with the new updates.
I was just playing it with some of the plugins.
tim pool
Skyrim, great.
What's the White Run?
ian crossland
Yeah, that's one of the main cities in the game.
tim pool
Did anyone build those cities in the game?
Like, when you go into the game and walk up to the city, did any of those characters actually chop down the trees and construct those buildings?
jeff younger
Uh, no.
tim pool
No, they didn't.
It was created by the creator of the game.
jeff younger
Even the house I live in in Whiterun, in the game.
tim pool
But to the characters, they're in buildings that, according to the lore, were created.
So I think it's funny when talking about simulation theory, because the idea of a simulation versus a constructed or intelligently designed universe, or a creator, is they're all the same idea, and then you consider this.
Dinosaurs and fossils.
When people say, they were always there, I don't believe that the Earth has been around that long, many secular individuals or atheists will laugh and say, that's absurd, we've done carbon dating, etc.
And it's like, yes.
And just like a video game, if we're in a simulation, they were drag and drop and placed there for purposes of the game for some reason.
libby emmons
Well, and you have Christians who say that that's what happened with archaeological finds, that they were placed there to be part of our understanding.
tim pool
Like in a video game, the buildings are placed there and no one built them.
jeff younger
There's an excellent book called Forbidden Archaeology.
There's a shorter paperback version of it, but it's just an analysis of about 1,500 archaeological digs in which, when they do carbon dating, humans have been here way, way longer.
They actually correct carbon dating to accord with evolutionary theory, even though the physical evidence contradicts it.
And this happens a lot.
ian crossland
So like, what I've heard is if something's been exposed to the air, and you carbon date it, it's gonna have a way later, or I think a later date.
jeff younger
Right, like we have these famous footprints in Texas, where we have dinosaur footprints, it's Dinosaur Footprints Day Park, you know, and human footprints are also there.
Dated to the same time.
ian crossland
Someone was just saying 2 million?
jeff younger
But they say it can't be.
They say it can't be because of evolutionary theory.
ian crossland
I think it was Randall Carlson might have said that 2 million years?
He thinks humans have been around for 2 million years?
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
Why does he think that?
ian crossland
It just keeps getting older and older.
He didn't get any evidence at the time.
libby emmons
But aren't they also not necessarily human beings?
Like, there are all these other humanoids.
ian crossland
Hominids, yeah.
libby emmons
Yeah, hominids, that's the word, that like came before us, like Neanderthals and all these different kinds of… It's actually, you guys, you're overthinking it.
tim pool
It's actually much simpler.
Life originated on Venus, but a runaway greenhouse effect destroyed the planet, so the last humans, as the planet was falling apart due to a greenhouse effect, which led to, you know, sulfuric acid rain, built the Ark Project, which took the DNA from two of as many animals as possible.
The military then launched it before the planet was destroyed, and they came to Earth, which they'd been terraforming for some hundreds of thousands of years, and, you know, then disseminated the genetics to create life.
That was around the Precambrian area, which is why we see the Precambrian explosion.
That's when the Ark Project deposited all of the new animals because we needed to now
start colonizing Earth.
Unfortunately, Venus was destroyed and now we can't go back and check because the density
of the acid destroys our satellites and probes when they land.
libby emmons
When I was a kid I used to think that all of the planets had been consecutively inhabited.
I see what you did there.
It was Earth's turn.
Mars had been inhabited, but it had lost its atmosphere, and so Mars was no longer inhabited.
And now it's Earth, and then it'll be like one by one.
tim pool
You know, I was gonna say, a great movie, because The Great Flood is on Venus, not on Earth.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
And I was reading about how Venus may have once had an Earth-like climate, because it's relatively close enough to the sun, but they do say a runaway greenhouse effect caused sulfuric acid buildup, which destroys everything.
And so I'm like, you know, It's a fun idea.
ian crossland
When the sun was smaller, it wasn't as hot on Venus.
It just expanded and then essentially cooked the planets.
Like Venus, they thought those were like a compact, comet impact, all these craters on Venus.
But now what they think is that the planet got so hot that it cooked and exploded out all this goo out of itself, basically baked and then exploded because of the sun.
But the reason I think that life originated on Earth in this solar system is because of the moon.
Because this weird moon like Thea smashed into Earth four billion years ago came out, ball of magma that cools down into this moon that pulls on the tides and causes for all this unique gestation of life.
tim pool
That's not what happened.
What happened was, when Earth was forming, God clicked and dragged and dropped the moon.
And then typed in the parameters for stable gravitation, and that's why the moon and the sun line up perfectly, creating an eclipse.
libby emmons
And then put a whole bunch of water on the planet for the moon to mess with.
jeff younger
Well, physicists recognize this.
tim pool
For the moon to mess with.
jeff younger
I mean, I get in conflicts with physicists all the time, because being a math guy, you know, we don't trust the existence of their abstract math entities, and they believe these things exist sometimes.
But they have this idea of this, what do they call it?
The strong anthropomorphic principle.
That the universe does appear to have been designed for physicists to understand it.
tim pool
I love it.
jeff younger
And they don't know what to call it.
All these constants could have been all these different ways, depending on how the Big Bang went, but they all fell this way that human consciousness could figure it out.
There's a strong and a weak version of that principle.
ian crossland
Is it a joke?
jeff younger
No, it's serious.
ian crossland
Because I think people developed sensors to be able to read the universe.
That's why we are sensors.
tim pool
Or at the very least, we're only having these conversations because we developed the ability to understand the universe.
So, like, otherwise we'd be rabbits running around just going, meh, meh, at each other.
libby emmons
Well, that would be the Garden of Eden, right?
I mean, when people talk about the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden, I'm always like, I'm super grateful for that.
Otherwise, we would actually not be the conscious beings that we are.
It's like a, you know, discussion of how human beings became conscious.
I was recently listening to a podcast about the theory of evolution and how when Darwin came out with his theory What happened was it was broadly accepted relatively quickly, and all other theories about the, you know, origins of mankind were just tossed out as fake.
ian crossland
Interesting.
I wonder if he knew somebody.
libby emmons
Yeah, I wonder about that as well.
Like, how did this theory, how did it explode and become the only theory that we consider?
tim pool
You know what the worst religion would be?
jeff younger
What's that?
tim pool
That we're in a video game and when you die you wake up at a Dave & Buster's.
Like Blitz and Chips.
libby emmons
And you're like out of chips on your card.
tim pool
Like Rick and Morty, the Roy game.
You just wake up and everyone's like, that was a pretty good run.
What did you do?
You were editor-in-chief for an independent media outlet?
jeff younger
I always thought Conan's religion was interesting.
You know, he worshipped Chrom, the god of strength, and if you were ever weak enough to have to call on his aid, he would kill you anyway.
libby emmons
I like in Klingon religion, the Klingon warriors killed all of the gods hundreds of years ago.
ian crossland
What is your trade?
Like, you're saying you're a math guy?
jeff younger
Yeah.
ian crossland
What is your main, like, studies and focuses?
jeff younger
I was trained as a topologist, but you can't feed a family on that.
So I do statistics, like most people, which leads me into AI.
But I'm more interested in topology.
ian crossland
Meaning, like, the study of the Earth's surface?
jeff younger
No, no.
Man, what's a way to explain this?
So there's a set theoretic definition of this, but that will not be helpful.
Okay, so imagine that you have a geometry.
Could be Euclidean geometry, whatever.
You have a geometry.
And you take out the ability to measure distance.
All right?
So now you could think of everything as infinitely stretchy.
There's no concept of distance.
ian crossland
I got it.
Relationships.
jeff younger
Well, in that kind of a scheme, a circle and a square and a triangle are all the same shape, right?
Because you can stretch them into the same shape.
So instead of using a congruence relation like you would in... Basically, you could define branches of mathematics by their identity relations, right?
So a congruence relation in the geometry says if you overlay the two objects, they have the same exact outline, right?
In algebra, equality is the identity relation.
It has to be the exact same number.
A homeomorphism is the identity relation in topology, and it's basically, can they be stretched into the same shape?
tim pool
Wow.
Real quick, a lot of people have been mentioning throughout the show that the balloon exploded over Montana.
jeff younger
Really?
tim pool
We didn't bring it up because as much as I'm checking, all we have is a video and it is confirmed, well it's not confirmed, but it's reportedly BS.
libby emmons
Yeah, because I thought it was actually moving east.
I thought it was over Missouri at this point.
tim pool
So there's a video going viral showing something coming down, and everyone's saying, explosion, explosion, this is it.
And Ryan Saavedra says, video's likely totally BS.
Billing says we're not aware of any explosions.
And defense officials tell Fox News the balloon over Montana has not been exploded, was not shot down by videos, and videos are fake.
libby emmons
Yep.
ian crossland
And it's still over Montana?
tim pool
Well, it's moving.
libby emmons
No, it's moving east.
tim pool
And apparently there's more.
libby emmons
And for some reason the Pentagon is just letting it move east.
I mean, it's so humiliating.
I feel humiliated by our government, that they're just letting this happen.
Like, blow the thing up!
Just blow it up!
ian crossland
I want them to capture it.
libby emmons
Just take it down!
ian crossland
I was thinking what happens is the Chinese were running a border scan across the southern Canadian border and got blown off course.
libby emmons
Well, Canada was talking about it, too.
jeff younger
Are we sure it's Chinese?
tim pool
I mean... Yeah, no.
unidentified
It is.
tim pool
China said it was theirs.
They just said it was a civilian mistake.
libby emmons
They said, don't worry about it, you guys.
It's totally fine that we're doing this.
jeff younger
How can we let it stay up there?
It makes no sense.
libby emmons
It's humiliating.
ian crossland
Like, they gotta at least bring it down and study it.
tim pool
I'm so, I have so little faith in this government, I'm just like, I'm chillin'.
jeff younger
Is that a PSYOP though?
Could it be ours and they're just saying- It's not ours.
tim pool
I don't know, China released an official statement saying it's a Chinese civilian aircraft that veered off course.
ian crossland
But that could be a joint declaration by the US government and the Chinese government.
libby emmons
You know, the DOD has $1.9 trillion budget and we can't take down a- A balloon?
ian crossland
We can, that's the thing.
libby emmons
Well, we won't.
tim pool
A drone could probably do it.
libby emmons
$1.9 trillion.
For real?
ian crossland
I think there was confusions because it said it's over MO, the state MO, which is Missouri.
libby emmons
Missouri, yeah.
ian crossland
But that's in the other side of the world compared to Montana.
libby emmons
No, that's because it's going east.
It's moving east.
It's a balloon.
It travels.
ian crossland
Yeah, but Missouri's got South Dakota, Nebraska, and Iowa between Montana.
tim pool
Yes, it moved.
ian crossland
It's on the jet stream.
To Missouri?
It's in Missouri now?
unidentified
Yes.
jeff younger
I thought it was in high atmospheric orbit.
I thought it was like 80,000 feet.
tim pool
Yeah, something super high, and I guess they said that it was moving towards the center of the country.
That's what the Pentagon said.
libby emmons
They said it was moving east.
tim pool
Yeah, it's the jet stream.
That's what happens.
jeff younger
This makes me remember Japan in World War II.
tim pool
Those bombs.
jeff younger
They built balloon bombs.
I mean, this would be a way to deliver a large, huge explosive.
tim pool
I watched some documentary, I was watching a documentary show where some little kids in like the 80s found an unexploded bomb and they like hit it with a rock and it blew up.
And what had happened is they explain how Japan would make these balloons that had a mechanism for when they got hot and got too high, then it would like release pressure.
But then if it got too low, a bag would fall off and it would go back up and it would make it across the jet stream and start dropping bombs on the United States.
Yeah, crazy.
jeff younger
It makes me remember that.
libby emmons
They found kids after World War Two in England found unexploded ordnance.
It was always an issue.
ian crossland
I'm so concerned about this balloon. Fugo balloon bomb. Not the balloon itself,
it's the behavior, the response to having a Chinese spy balloon. Yes, that's the concern.
libby emmons
That's the concern. Why are we not doing anything? Why is the government just like,
hey, it's totally cool. It's totally cool that we have this spy balloon. And you know what else
the Pentagon said? The Pentagon said, you know, China already has spy satellites, so there's
nothing that they can see now that they haven't been able to see with the spy satellite.
tim pool
Yo, they built 9,300 of these.
These balloon things?
And of the ones that made it to the U.S., only six people were killed by them.
They were extremely ineffective.
unidentified
Wow.
tim pool
Yeah, they just didn't work.
jeff younger
Wow.
They probably had no guidance mechanism, right?
It's just random.
tim pool
Just the jet stream.
So it bombed Oregon, I guess.
libby emmons
But this Chinese balloon probably has some way to guide Well, this Chinese balloon also is giving China a whole lot of information about how stupid we are and we don't respond to anything.
It's like, here's a major threat, we're not going to respond to it at all.
ian crossland
A lot of people are saying because they have low-earth satellites, this isn't that big of a deal, but like, how do you know that?
You need to break that thing apart and look at the nanostructure of the materials used to build it.
It could be sensors, it could be all these sensors feeding like infrared data.
libby emmons
Plus, even symbolically, even symbolically, like get the Get it off the sky!
ian crossland
Yeah, it makes me want to get a gun.
Yes!
Protect myself in case the Chinese send another balloon over my house.
libby emmons
Yes.
We should all have like RPGs take this thing down.
tim pool
It's not going to make it.
jeff younger
There's like this whole pattern.
tim pool
You need to send up another balloon.
libby emmons
Another balloon to take it down?
tim pool
To be able to get that high up, what, 80,000 feet or whatever?
High atmospheric...
libby emmons
But we have people who do that.
those guys who go all the way up to the top of the, you know, way above the
atmosphere and they jump off platforms.
unidentified
They're like, oh, I'm a thrill seeker.
libby emmons
All right.
We have one guy.
tim pool
And it's really dangerous because it's dangerous.
unidentified
Yeah.
libby emmons
It looks pretty dangerous.
tim pool
If you start spinning, you can't stop.
unidentified
Right.
libby emmons
And there's no wind.
Then you're done.
ian crossland
What were you saying about the structure of it?
You saying something bothers you about the structure of this?
jeff younger
Well, look, I mean, there's a pattern here.
Like we don't protect our Southern border.
Right?
We know we could interdict all these drugs.
We don't.
Right?
We can drone people all over the Middle East, but we can't drone drug dealers in Mexico.
Now we're not protecting our airspace from just blatant intrusion by Chinese spy balloons.
libby emmons
We have an incredibly old, doddery man as president who doesn't seem to care at all.
jeff younger
Yeah.
There's just like a whole program here.
I actually don't believe that the president's in control of the military.
Ever since Trump.
Trump is what proved that to me.
tim pool
Well, because Trump tried to pull our troops out of Syria and they lied.
jeff younger
Even on small things they refused.
He ordered military parades every year of his presidency and they refused to do it.
libby emmons
I would have loved to see a military parade.
That would have been badass.
jeff younger
Milley actually gave him the middle finger and put a tank out there and just let it sit there.
unidentified
Wow.
jeff younger
I mean, they literally gave him the middle finger.
ian crossland
I was heard that Biden wanted to shoot it down.
I don't know if he gave the order, but he wanted to.
tim pool
Pentagon said not.
ian crossland
Pentagon said not a good idea.
libby emmons
Biden was asked about it when he was talking about some garbage, stupid thing that he's got planned right now.
And instead, he just looked at the reporters and walked out the room.
jeff younger
It's so strange how we give China, in some ways, we're so militant towards China by rhetoric.
libby emmons
Well, we can't decide if they're competitors or enemies or allies.
jeff younger
Just never do anything.
libby emmons
It's odd. Meanwhile, they have, China said that their military needs to be ready by what was it
2027 to invade Taiwan. And Biden has said that we will militarily defend Taiwan. So now we're
we're literally looking at in our lifetimes, a two front war against China and Russia.
This is a disastrous situation.
I mean, if Obama was talking about the managed decline of the United States, this is the managed destruction of the United States.
It's not even a decline.
It's just like, hey, let's just destroy ourselves.
tim pool
I called it this, and I did a video leading with Jack Posobiec's story about how his neighborhood fell apart.
It's a slow-motion controlled demolition.
We've said it tons of times.
jeff younger
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Yeah.
ian crossland
I get the vibe that the Chinese are terrified we're going to invade them.
And so they're like, if they invade us, we need to know what their northern border is secured like, because we will have to send troops through Canada.
tim pool
We're not an invasive force.
We don't have the ground troops for an invasion.
libby emmons
And we also don't have the base.
tim pool
Right.
The United States is an air superiority military.
That's how we win.
So we've got missiles.
jeff younger
Exactly right.
tim pool
What they're concerned about is Taiwan.
They're, I think they're getting ready to invade Taiwan.
libby emmons
That's why we just put a bunch of, we're putting a bunch of stuff in the Philippines now.
tim pool
And I think these balloons most likely are, they need as much data as possible.
And so, you know, there's a lot of questions like, why aren't they using satellites?
Satellites have to keep moving for the most part.
I mean, there's geostationary orbit.
libby emmons
Yeah, this is going very slowly.
tim pool
They have to crisscross to be able to track different areas.
This balloon can move around.
And I think most likely, Like I said yesterday and on my show earlier, the guy robbing a liquor store doesn't care that he has a gun illegally because he's already planning on committing a greater crime in robbing a liquor store.
China doesn't care if we're mad about a balloon.
They're already planning something that's going to piss us off, so screw it.
jeff younger
Well, there's all kinds of ways of doing reconnaissance.
Like, their satellites could be looking at all of our electronic emissions trying to detect the balloon.
And learning all about our electronic detection systems.
This is the kind of stuff that goes on, right?
The Russians are actually masters of that.
ian crossland
You want to be like, almost like, oops, we accidentally pulled the balloon down somehow.
tim pool
Just shoot it down.
libby emmons
Then you got no evidence.
jeff younger
Maybe they can't.
Why could they not?
tim pool
Because it's 80,000 feet and it's not something where it's just like, dispatch X to go do it.
jeff younger
You need an ASAP missile.
unidentified
Right.
jeff younger
You need an anti-satellite missile to get it.
tim pool
Yep.
It's too high for a jet.
So what do you do?
Another balloon.
ian crossland
Yep.
tim pool
Another balloon carrying a bunch of blades or something?
libby emmons
Listen, if we have a $1.9 trillion defense budget and we can't take down a balloon over our airspace, that is so stupid.
tim pool
It's that we can't deploy anything right now.
libby emmons
No, I understand that.
tim pool
So we have to build it, which you can't just do instantly.
libby emmons
Well, that's dumb.
jeff younger
And we've outsourced all of our production to China.
tim pool
Can you build an anti-balloon?
libby emmons
Which is also so stupid.
I mean, Trump at least was like trying to get drug manufacturing back in the U.S.
He was trying to convert, what was it, the Kodak factory up in Rochester?
jeff younger
Yeah.
libby emmons
To turn it into like, uh, what was it like for basically for ibuprofen or whatever?
tim pool
Lasers could take it down, people are pointing out.
But you still have to get within a certain range for the laser to be effective.
You do.
I mean, 80,000 feet is still- You mean some space lasers?
jeff younger
That's a long ways.
tim pool
That's a long way for a laser.
But maybe they could get halfway up with some kind of high altitude drone, and they do have those.
jeff younger
Supposedly we have ASAT missiles that can shoot satellites.
tim pool
I don't know if there's a laser that can- But do they work?
Hit 40,000 feet.
libby emmons
Maybe we gave them all to Ukraine.
jeff younger
I'm actually skeptical that a lot of our technology works.
unidentified
I agree.
jeff younger
Our 777 artillery.
Very simple machine.
It's just absolutely inferior to Russian artillery.
The Ukraine conflict has proved that, right?
I think a lot of the stuff is made to enrich the defense companies, not to actually kill the enemy.
libby emmons
Well, that's why we had to have a war with you.
That's why you had to help Ukraine's war, was to line the pockets of the people who... 100%.
tim pool
ICBMs are in disrepair.
jeff younger
And yet Russians have hypersonic missiles that we know they've launched in Ukraine and work.
And they're 100% stealthy and undetectable by radar because of the plasma that develops in front of them.
tim pool
Oh, awesome.
jeff younger
So they're stealthy and hypersonic.
libby emmons
And our cities are just really vulnerable.
jeff younger
And they're shooting, what, 64,000, I think was what Colonel McGregor was saying?
64,000 artillery rounds a day.
unidentified
Wow.
libby emmons
And they're gonna blow up all our tanks.
jeff younger
And Ukraine can barely muster 5,000, and they've wiped out the artillery round stores for all the NATO countries.
Like, we're not industrially prepared for war anymore.
libby emmons
No, we're not.
It's ridiculous.
tim pool
Russia knows it.
libby emmons
We've done a very poor job.
So does China.
jeff younger
And I think there's something to be said for innovation.
There's an old saying in manufacturing that innovation happens on the shop floor.
So when you outsource manufacturing, the innovation goes over there.
Because it's from solving real world problems that you learn how to innovate.
The Russians have never outsourced.
And the sanctions, paradoxically, forced them to develop their own internal industries, which I think bolstered internal innovation.
libby emmons
Well, and China outsources, but only for the purpose of gathering resources.
unidentified
100%.
ian crossland
I was thinking about France in World War II, because they were like the superpower on earth next to Germany and Japan.
And then they were just taken off the table in the early days of the war, like if the United States, if China were to invade the United States in like three weeks with tactical nuclear strikes on the coastal cities and invasion of the capital.
The thing is, we can work decentrally now, so it's a lot harder to nullify a country by taking the capital.
But like, we think like, if there was a world war between the United States and like, the United States could be removed from the game in the first days, if we're stupid.
jeff younger
I mean, land warfare, we, I don't, I don't actually think the NATO alliance could possibly beat Russia.
We don't have enough guys!
ian crossland
In naval warfare?
jeff younger
In land warfare.
libby emmons
We just don't have enough stuff.
jeff younger
But I don't think the Ukraine thing is attacking Russia.
That's what I differ from a lot of my friends on the right.
They think that we're trying to attack, I think we're trying to destroy Germany.
unidentified
Oh.
That's what I think.
libby emmons
I don't think that's very smart.
ian crossland
Like they're trying to bankrupt and destroy Germany?
jeff younger
Like they were doing to Austria without reserve?
Deindustrialize Germany.
To deindustrialize Germany, which was the program in World War I and World War II.
libby emmons
Yeah, but then we paid to rebuild them.
jeff younger
Yeah, we did.
libby emmons
So why would we want to corrupt our investment at this point?
jeff younger
For the same reason World War I started.
We will not allow an alliance between Germany and Russia.
libby emmons
You mean it wasn't Archduke Ferdinand?
jeff younger
Yeah.
You mean killed by the Black Hand Society, financed by the British Foreign Service?
Sure.
Yeah.
But the Mackinder thesis, you can look that up, but it's a long-running sort of foreign policy idea, a British foreign policy idea, that there are land peoples and sea peoples.
And Anglo-sphere foreign policy has been completely directed toward prevention of an alliance between Europe and Russia.
So there's always got to be – and so the Nord Stream pipelines directly threatened that.
It was creating an alliance between Germany and Russia.
Wow.
And Russia was actively attempting to come into the Western economy.
They were moving away from China into the Western economy.
And Anglo foreign policy cannot allow that.
And it's historically, literally since the 1600s, been completely directed at preventing that.
That's what World War I was actually about.
It was, and so we're literally de-industrializing Germany with high energy costs right now.
libby emmons
Yeah, and we killed that whole pipeline.
We're also destroying England with high energy costs.
jeff younger
Yes, we are.
libby emmons
More people freeze every year because of extreme temperatures than die of any kind of heat exposure.
tim pool
All right, let's go to Super Chats.
If you haven't already, would you kindly smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends, and become a member at TimCast.com to support our work.
And you get access to a massive library of uncensored members-only shows and support our cultural endeavors.
But let's read what you guys have to say.
We got JTTV.
Scott says, release the code.
Meaning your entire network of influencers.
Ian has the most honest roles.
Oh, very nice.
jeff younger
Hey.
tim pool
So we have a lot of comments early on where people are saying it looked like the balloon was shot down, but it's... I see.
Yeah, seems to be not the case.
All right, let's see.
Okay, Alex says, this man's story is extremely important and needs to get out.
Meanwhile, the chat is spammed with Eliza Blue nonsense.
Respect the quartering, but y'all need a life.
Well, you know, it is what it is.
We're here to talk about Jeff's story.
Matthew says, I've been trying to tell people about Jeff Younger, but all the liberals tell me I'm lying or the mother has the right to do that.
I'm sorry for the situation.
I would be mortified.
ian crossland
Yeah, what is the next on the horizon now for you legally?
jeff younger
They're going to push me into an early trial as soon as they can.
The judge will probably clear the docket and let it get done because they want to get this trial done before Texas passes a law requiring parental consent.
And then what will happen after that?
It will happen probably, I'm guessing, right at the six-month mark is how the judge will do it.
And then it's possible for the California courts to take over jurisdiction since she will have lived there for six months.
And then my kids fall under California laws.
But if Texas passes the law that gives both parents... I'm going to try again to get an order to have them return to Texas and give me emergency jurisdiction over them.
tim pool
All right, here's one.
This is actually seemingly insulting, but also actually kind of respectful.
Zach Harrington says, Ian's willingness to say things that would embarrass a normal person is absolutely inspiring.
But actually, I think that's a compliment.
unidentified
It is.
ian crossland
It's so key.
tim pool
I agree.
Because there are a lot of people that should say something, but are worried about what other people think and won't say it, and Ian will say what he thinks.
jeff younger
He will.
ian crossland
It's freeing, too.
Like, they laugh at first, and it's like, oh, I hurt, I hurt, but then eventually you realize, like, they don't laugh as much anymore.
tim pool
Steven says, ask Jeff if he ever considered getting a bishop or priest to do an exorcism on his wife.
jeff younger
Well, we converted into orthodoxy and prior to conversion we went through an exorcism and then at baptism another exorcism.
And then when my sons were born, we have what's called a churching period.
So the children and the mother are not allowed in church for 40 days, and then they come and are exercised and brought into the body after 40 days.
So that's three of them.
ian crossland
What was the exorcism like?
jeff younger
The prayers of exorcism, one, require that you spit on the devil's name.
You literally spit to the west.
And that's to determine if you're under his influence.
And they ask for the Holy Spirit to remove any infernal influence.
And it's prayed, the exorcism prayers are prayed by the entire church.
ian crossland
Do people cry?
jeff younger
Sometimes, yeah.
ian crossland
It's like you're literally exercising the soul.
jeff younger
Yeah, yeah.
But you know, orthodoxy is somewhat different than Roman Catholicism in that we do not generally approve of moving the passions in church.
So, yeah.
tim pool
Blue Collar Henry says, this is the exact reason MGTOW exists.
No marriage until law changes.
jeff younger
Well, yeah.
If you go to my Twitter feed, you'll see that I was swarmed by feminists when I suggested that men may have to start using surrogacy and adoption if they want to have children.
And a lot of conservatives and religious people are really mad at me right now over that.
libby emmons
Well, surrogacy is an abomination.
And surrogacy should be entirely illegal, commercial surrogacy.
ian crossland
What about someone else hosts the baby?
libby emmons
It's not someone else, no.
It's when you rent a woman's body, jack her full of drugs, and then take her baby once it's born.
unidentified
Oof.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
Brutal.
jeff younger
I call it pre-adoption, so I don't think it's as bad.
libby emmons
I call it… it's extremely… well, you've never been pregnant.
I mean, I could not imagine.
It's absolutely a horror.
ian crossland
But it's someone else's egg?
The woman is hosting someone else's egg?
libby emmons
Yes.
jeff younger
Usually.
libby emmons
Which also, in order to host someone else's egg, you have to take drugs to prevent organ rejection, the same kind of drugs that you would to do that.
You have to go through IVF drugs.
I mean it's like it's an insane process and it's very much like prostitution except you're getting screwed for nine months.
jeff younger
But unfortunately it's the only way for fathers to be secure in their posterity under the law.
libby emmons
There's absolutely no reason.
jeff younger
I think we should change the laws.
libby emmons
There's absolutely no reason that women should be subjected to men's whims and have their bodies forced into that for money.
ian crossland
There's absolutely Well, it's consensual if they're getting money, ideally.
I mean, I agree that no one should be forced into it.
libby emmons
Sure, it's consensual to buy women.
Yeah, you can buy women with money.
You can definitely do that.
You can definitely do it.
But that doesn't make it right, and it certainly doesn't make it something that should be legally sanctioned.
ian crossland
You're only renting, Libby.
libby emmons
I'm so opposed to surrogacy, you have no idea.
unidentified
Leasing.
ian crossland
It's a lease.
jeff younger
But are you as opposed to the single motherhood?
libby emmons
I'm as opposed to single motherhood by choice where you would get a sperm donor and do that.
I'm 100% opposed to that.
jeff younger
What about getting pregnant naturally but not getting married or rejecting the father, those kinds of things?
libby emmons
I don't think that's great.
I don't think that's a great situation.
But if you get pregnant and you keep your child, you know, and you do right by your child, I'm in favor of that.
tim pool
Alright, Patriot says, I sympathize with Jeff.
I went through the same thing with two daughters and a drug-abusing ex-wife, who'd have gang members, dealers, and drugs caught on tape leaving them for hours, and drug deals with them present, berated by judges for suing for full custody.
jeff younger
Yeah, in general, because of the money interest, I told you about Title IV-D, The family courts generally give the child to the dysfunctional parent because the responsible parent will pay.
tim pool
And make money.
jeff younger
The drug dealer will never pay the child support and they'll never get the money.
So they tend to give the child to the dysfunctional parent and the functional parent will pay.
ian crossland
Is that only if the dysfunctional one happens to be a woman?
jeff younger
No, no, no.
There's tons of mothers this has happened to in Texas, believe me.
libby emmons
I had custody of myself awarded to my father.
So I was raised by my father.
And then I had custody awarded to his ex-wife, who was not my mother.
ian crossland
You did that by choice?
libby emmons
No, no, it all got very screwed up.
The whole thing was very crazy.
But I mean, I've been through so many divorce processes at this point.
jeff younger
Yeah.
In Texas, the stats are that in a divorce, this isn't general, this is of divorce couples, 94.3% of the time the father will get every other weekend.
It's largely a father problem, but increasingly it is affecting mothers.
As men become less responsible, mothers become the more responsible party, so the courts say she'll be the one to pay child support.
unidentified
What the heck?
ian crossland
That makes no sense, that you would give the kid to the less responsible parent.
jeff younger
It doesn't for the child's benefit, but it does for the state budgets.
ian crossland
And at that point, don't the people have a duty to step up and tell the state, you've gone wrong?
jeff younger
Every time I stand up and talk about the problem of single motherhood and the way that the child support industry promotes it, Republican women go absolutely insane on me.
They go insane on me.
It is not a popular topic even among Republicans.
ian crossland
What is it specifically that they go insane about?
jeff younger
They say you're anti-woman somehow because you're for traditional marriage.
Like, I want to get rid of no-fault divorce.
I think you should be able to get divorced if one of the five faults are present.
But no-fault divorce needs to go away.
tim pool
If you want to date someone, date someone.
If you want to get married, marriage is something different.
jeff younger
And the arrangement outside of marriage should be 50-50, custody, no child support, unless one of the parents is unfit, which does happen.
ian crossland
What are the five faults?
jeff younger
Abandonment, denial of affection, which is basically you don't have sex, right?
Fraud.
libby emmons
What would fraud be like?
You have another family?
jeff younger
Yeah, bigamy would be one.
Bigamy would be a form of fraud.
tim pool
It's widely... Hiding money and resources and stuff?
jeff younger
Well, or it could go the other way.
It could be that you say that you have more money than you did, or whatever.
You tempted someone to marry you under a lie.
tim pool
Ah, I see.
jeff younger
Abuse, and then neglect.
Abandonment.
Abandonment.
ian crossland
Oh, abandonment is different than neglect?
tim pool
You said that already.
ian crossland
Yeah, abandonment was the first one.
Abandonment.
Yeah, go through those again.
jeff younger
Okay, so maybe let's see if I got this right.
So we got, let's go with infidelity.
tim pool
There you go.
jeff younger
Infidelity, yeah.
Infidelity, fraud, abuse, abandonment, and denial of affection.
ian crossland
Denial of affection, I love it.
jeff younger
No, you have a right to sex in marriage.
Prior to no-fault divorce, you had a right to that.
tim pool
Wow.
All right, let's see what we got.
McChillis says, a man has to be absolutely insane these days to get married in the U.S.
jeff younger
I agree.
tim pool
Many would caution against even cohabitation due to common law marriage.
jeff younger
I agree.
tim pool
Wise up men, MGTOW, free top G, repeal the 19th.
libby emmons
You know what it is?
It's like reverse.
tim pool
Common law is not real, though.
People misunderstand common law.
It's not a real thing.
What is it?
It's this urban legend that if you live with a woman for a long enough period of time, you are now legally married, but that's just not real.
jeff younger
That's not true.
Texas does have a common law statute, but it requires that you represent yourself as married three times in public.
ian crossland
Yeah.
tim pool
And it's because you are choosing.
What does it look like to represent yourself as married?
jeff younger
You say you're married.
libby emmons
Oh, you say it.
tim pool
The idea is you're inadvertently married and you go, oh no, now I'm married because we lived together.
We were roommates.
That's not how it works.
jeff younger
That doesn't work.
tim pool
You have to assert your marriage, you have to file claims against your marriage, and then after some amount of time you can legally seek benefits.
But if you don't, then you won't.
jeff younger
But living with a woman could still be very dangerous because you have no rights if you're not married and you have a child.
Your rights are even worse if you're not married.
tim pool
All right.
LaCouva says, deadlifts are great for grip strength.
Ian, look into the starting strength program.
It's great for beginners.
Also, when Luke comes back, you should try to get the program's founder, Mark Ripoteau, on.
jeff younger
Yeah, Mark's a cool guy.
tim pool
Cool.
ian crossland
Thanks.
tim pool
All right, Alex Schott says, just think, not too long ago the biggest peer pressure kids had to worry about was, hey kids, do you want to go smoke and get drunk?
Now it's, hey kids, do you want to take hormone blockers and cut off your junk?
jeff younger
Yep, and the schools are pushing it.
That's the difference.
The schools were against drugs, but the schools are all pushing this.
tim pool
That's scary for a lot of these kids.
You look at these detransitioners, these kids are going to grow up and it's going to be really horrifying.
jeff younger
Yes, it is.
It's already horrifying if you've met any of them.
ian crossland
Have you been in touch with Chloe Cole?
jeff younger
No, I have online.
I have online.
But I have good friends of mine in Texas who are detransitioners.
ian crossland
They already are DE transitioners?
jeff younger
Yes, yeah.
In fact, have you guys seen the video of me at UNT when Antifa attacked me?
libby emmons
With Kelly Neidert, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I talked to Kelly about that.
She was terrified.
She was like locked in a closet for a while.
jeff younger
Yes, yes.
I got a rib broken.
unidentified
Whoa!
jeff younger
The guy tried to choke me out.
libby emmons
They wouldn't let you speak at all.
Did you end up speaking at all?
jeff younger
Yeah, they eventually saw.
Because I'm not like these these limp-wristed normie conservatives.
So Antifa shows up, right?
I'm like, okay, I got an hour and a half.
I'm gonna make you yell for an hour and a half.
Go for it.
And I had a microphone so I could always yell louder than them.
So I was like, is this all you commies got?
The red guards are better than you guys.
So they got all pissed and then they were worn out after about half an hour.
You just can only bang tables and yell for so long.
And then one of the shot callers from Antifa, there's always a shot caller, right?
The shot caller comes over.
And he stupidly posted this on YouTube.
The shot caller posted all of his radio and chat comments to all the other guys.
It's funny.
He comes over and says, you know what this guy's doing?
He's making us look stupid by making us chant like this.
We probably should let him talk.
So then I started my talk and then they surrounded the building with about 400 people.
Whoa.
Three or four hundred.
And then they threatened to burn the building down and then the police evacuated.
tim pool
Nazis.
Yeah, that's what they were.
Neocoms.
I call them neocoms.
jeff younger
Some guy got a good shot of me.
The cop put my head down and then somebody, I don't know if it was a knee or something, but a guy broke my rib on my right side.
Guy tried to choke me, I had to gable grip out of it.
ian crossland
Were you like, they were taking you through a crowd or something?
jeff younger
Yeah, to get to a police car.
libby emmons
And this was all because you were trying to protect your children.
ian crossland
Yeah, that's it.
jeff younger
I was running for political office in Texas.
I was running to be a member of the Texas House, and Kelly Nider's organization, the Young Conservatives of Texas, invited me to come speak about my campaign.
And because of the anti-trans stuff.
So I'm like on the top 10 list for Antifa in Texas.
Like when I go to the Capitol, they have armed people follow me around.
tim pool
You know, and people are all like, you should move to Texas.
You should move to Florida.
I'm like, dude, West Virginia is MAGA country.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
So I have to say this, because we've got people who issue threats and stuff.
If they came out to the mountains of West Virginia, my warning to them is, like, please don't because we don't want you to get hurt.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
Like, I'm just saying, you're going to come to some mountain and there's going to be some right-wing nut job with, you know, an AR on each shoulder and pistols on each, you know, all over his body and he's going to be yelling yeehaw as he sees it rolling up.
Like, don't do it.
Don't come out here, man.
jeff younger
Yeah.
You know, it's like... Antifa's all over the urban areas of Texas.
tim pool
Yeah, you come out here and, uh, nope.
The posts on social media scare me, honestly.
jeff younger
Which posts?
tim pool
The posts where they're like, I hope they come here, it would be awesome, make my day, and I'm like, no, guys, you don't want to hurt, like, we don't want anybody getting hurt, we don't want Antifa showing up, because then they're going to be leaving in body bags, and that's bad, bad, bad, do not come out here.
Ain't nobody out here is gonna tolerate that.
And we've seen these videos from a few years ago where like Antifa showed up to a residential neighborhood, and it was in a suburban area.
And then people came out of their houses and it was like, it was like union guys.
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
And they just started shoving them and pushing them.
libby emmons
Then you see videos where people- That was in West Virginia?
tim pool
No, no, no, no.
It was just some suburb.
I can't remember where it was.
But they're pushing on the antifas like, stop!
Stop, man!
Leave us alone!
Yeah, they can get away with this in cities where the police run cover for them.
jeff younger
That's what I was gonna say.
tim pool
But you come out into the countryside where you walk onto someone's property with a weapon and self-defense and castle doctrine kick in real quick.
Please do not come out here with malintent.
libby emmons
Well, they didn't in Missouri with that couple that stood outside.
unidentified
That was in St.
tim pool
Louis.
libby emmons
Yeah.
tim pool
That's St.
libby emmons
Louis.
tim pool
The police protect Antifa.
jeff younger
They do.
Antifa only operate in permissive environments.
And so that tells you a lot about the political structures where you live.
So I live in Denton County, Texas, in a town called Flower Mound.
And it's very instructive that they will not operate in Flower Mound, but they will operate in Denton, the city, which is in Denton County, because the sheriff is permissive.
unidentified
Yep.
jeff younger
And the police chief in Denton is permissive.
That's all you need to know about your elected officials in law enforcement, is if Antifa operates there, they're allowing it.
tim pool
Yep, hands down, because it's no surprise they don't operate out here.
jeff younger
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
tim pool
Because the cops out here, they're not actually like far right or anything.
We've worked with them because of the threats that we've gotten, and they're just kind of regular dudes, but they don't tolerate it.
But more importantly, the attitude out here is kind of like, well, you know, it's West Virginia, it's constitutional carry, and if someone shows up and there's a threat to someone's life, they have a right to defend themselves and their property.
That's why I'm like, I'm actually worried for these people if they came out to the mountain, because you look at these message boards for the neighborhood, and it's just people salivating, being like, make my day.
And I'm like, oh man.
jeff younger
If he'd only stepped over the line, I could've got him, yeah.
tim pool
Don't come out here, man.
But that's why it's like, Texas, I don't want to go to a dense urban environment where I have to rely on cops.
I'd rather be in my constitutional carry state.
We have security guards, we have armed stuff, but we have laws that allow us to defend ourselves.
unidentified
I love that.
tim pool
And you have neighbors who don't take kindly to people from driving all the way out here, far left wing nuts.
jeff younger
Sure.
tim pool
Yeah, nut jobs.
jeff younger
I love it.
tim pool
All right.
Agamemnon's Gym Bag says, We're literally living in the plot of 99 Red Balloons, but all I care about is your son's welfare.
Jeff, I'm not a praying man, but you have my prayers tonight.
Lukenbach is no longer a destination to move to.
jeff younger
Yeah.
Yeah, Texas is a very conservative population that is ruled by extremely left-wing Republicans.
ian crossland
Was it always like that in the last decade?
jeff younger
Pretty much.
People forget, until the mid-90s, Democrats ran Texas.
It was a Democrat state until the mid-90s.
tim pool
California was Republican until the late 80s.
jeff younger
All they did in Texas is they switched from being Democrats to being Republicans, and they run as a Republican, but they're still liberal.
libby emmons
Did anyone else have 99 red left balloons running through your head all day?
jeff younger
Nina?
unidentified
99.
tim pool
Sean says ATF has begun a 120-day amnesty period to register your braced pistols and waive the $200 tax.
If caught with a braced pistol after 120 days, you'll be fined $250,000 and sentenced 10 years in prison.
Uh, I'm pretty sure the ATF does not have legislative powers, so this is completely unconstitutional and will likely be overturned very quickly after the volley of lawsuits fired off by every single gun rights organization.
So, uh, you know, we'll see.
I have a feeling this is gonna get shot down in the court, an emergency injunction within a matter of a week, but we'll see.
To stress, the ATF can't decree legislation that you will go to prison for a thing that was not made illegal by Congress.
So, good luck.
jeff younger
Right.
tim pool
But you know, take it seriously, because I'm not saying the government ain't corrupt.
They certainly are.
They'll certainly try.
unidentified
All right, what do we got here?
tim pool
We'll grab some more.
Dusty Firebird says, Libya's a rock star.
Thank you for fighting for kids, Mr. Younger.
This episode is why I watch every night.
I film birds in exotic locations.
Follow me if you love nature, too.
jeff younger
Very cool.
ian crossland
What's the name?
tim pool
Dusty Firebird.
jeff younger
Dusty Firebird.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
All right, where are we at?
A lot of people mentioning the massive explosion in Billings, Montana, but what I could see is probably nothing, you know?
Alright.
Guardsman Norheim of the 10th First says, Tim's voice didn't work in the deepfake because he's not an NPC already programmed in the machine.
You know, I don't know but I will say this.
I have been told By comedians, it's hard to impersonate me.
jeff younger
Interesting.
tim pool
I think Seamus was trying to do something from Freedom Tunes and he was like, I couldn't figure out how to get Tim Pool, I don't know.
Someone asked him on the show, I think, can you do a Tim Pool voice, and he was like, I don't know, I can't figure it out.
And I've heard that before.
jeff younger
Interesting.
tim pool
I don't know, that's just me.
unidentified
Wow.
tim pool
Joe Rogan is also really hard to impersonate.
People, like, look, Trump is moderately difficult, but people nail Trump.
Tom Cruise, pretty easy to get.
Ian McKellen is easy.
You can nail these impersonations.
Dr. Fauci, I think, is pretty easy.
libby emmons
Dr. Fauci has the same accent as my grandmother did.
tim pool
Yeah, he's fairly easy.
But Joe Rogan has a weird voice.
That's like Bensonhurst, Brooklyn.
If you ever notice this, a lot of parodies with Joe Rogan will just get nowhere near sounding like him.
It's weird.
libby emmons
He's always posting on Instagram pictures of tattoos people get of his face.
tim pool
It's kind of weird.
libby emmons
I'm always like, what is the deal with this?
jeff younger
It's the weirdest thing.
ian crossland
He didn't post it first.
I think he was weirded out.
And then he was like, you know what?
I'm just accepting my life.
This is real life.
libby emmons
And some of them are wild.
Some of them have like a third eye.
tim pool
All right.
The Pool Sheriff says, you'll have to buy an official character in the metaverse so people know it's you and your truth will not some fake, kind of like a blue checkmark.
Well, I think what it'll be like is there will be the default avatars the poor people will have, where there's like seven models and they all look the same but with like different colors.
And then there'll be the premium models that cost, you know, 15 bucks a month or whatever.
ian crossland
And then everyone will subscribe and... Or you'll be able to rent your premium clothing in the game just by spending time in the game.
tim pool
In the game, there will be no skins.
ian crossland
Yeah, you'll get free skins if you spend 40 hours a week.
tim pool
If you live and work in the metaverse, there's no crime, there's no theft.
No one can mug you.
You have no fear of violence or anything like that.
libby emmons
Yeah, but you have no idea what's happening to your actual body.
tim pool
No, you're in the pod.
It's locked.
libby emmons
Oh, you're in the locked pod.
tim pool
Sensory deprivation.
ian crossland
They could also do it as augmented.
libby emmons
Like in the Mitchells vs. the Machines.
Did you see that movie?
That's actually a good Netflix... Have you seen Surrogates?
No.
tim pool
Bruce Willis, you've seen it?
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Everybody has a surrogate robot version of themselves.
They don't leave their houses, they go in pods that control the robot, and the robot goes and does everything for them.
libby emmons
Oh, I had a friend of mine who's severely disabled who was telling me that he really wanted one of those.
tim pool
Well, it's like an avatar.
The dude was paralyzed, so he got to be the, you know.
jeff younger
The movie did a good job of presenting the creepiness of the robots, though.
The robots were creepy in that movie.
tim pool
Oh, right, yeah.
Plastic-looking.
And then there's the scene where it's like the hot chick is making out with the guy, and then gets killed, and they're like, let's go find the operator, and the operator's like a 400-pound morbidly obese guy.
Yeah, that's the future.
If we go circuit, I think it'll be Metaverse.
Like, building complex androids seems like too much work.
libby emmons
Metaverse would be easier.
jeff younger
Yeah.
tim pool
But nobody has legs in the Metaverse right now.
libby emmons
Oh, really?
I haven't checked it out.
tim pool
Yeah, I've never gone in the Metaverse or used the Metaverse, however you pronounce it or describe it, but there's no legs.
ian crossland
We really need treadmill.
tim pool
People just float around.
libby emmons
Treadmills in the Metaverse?
ian crossland
Yeah, VR treadmills where you strap into, like, a bouncy harness.
Yeah, but they're not quite good enough.
I want smooth feet where I can run full speed and jump.
Yeah, but I haven't found a really good one.
If you guys have a good one, you tell me.
tim pool
The one with the bowl?
ian crossland
I don't know.
tim pool
It's a bowl that's a touchscreen, and you're wearing a waist harness that goes around your waist, and you run, and when you run, your character moves.
I was at VidCon seven years ago, and they had it set up, and people were playing an FPS, a first-person shooter, and you're watching these people in these pods up high, and they're running full speed, strapped in, and then going like this and shooting at each other.
ian crossland
I've seen a lot of them, but they're only running like they can't have a full gate,
like they can't because the bases aren't that big. Once you can get it big enough where you
can run full speed and jump and land without hurting yourself.
tim pool
They have a treadmill that moves in all directions that you can run on.
ian crossland
Dude, and then you get haptic feedback, shirt, gloves, you can feel stuff hitting you.
It's going to be so good.
tim pool
And you can feel other things too.
You sure can!
libby emmons
This sounds like hell to me.
ian crossland
And you can swim, like if you can go like prone and like swim kind of like where you're held, but then you got gravity.
That's a big part of it is the underwater stuff is hard to mimic right now.
jeff younger
Right.
libby emmons
I think we need to bring back appreciation for the real world.
jeff younger
Yeah, I'd say go to a boxing ring.
Do something real.
libby emmons
I'm probably not going to do that, but... All right.
tim pool
Someone in the chat said that Metaverse graphics is like PS2.
Yes.
It's not good.
And it's because the lenses are high resolution, but super zoomed in so it can work.
jeff younger
Got it.
tim pool
So we need to get to like, you know, 16K resolution before it starts becoming, you know, better.
jeff younger
Did any of you do Second Life?
Have you ever been in Second Life?
libby emmons
I remember Second Life.
tim pool
I played that one time for a little bit and I was kind of whatever.
ian crossland
I watched some gameplay footage of it.
jeff younger
I bought some land in Second Life and had a server in it for a while.
I was experimenting with it.
There were some universities that had put up like university areas where they were like actually doing lectures and stuff.
It actually looks better than the metaverse.
libby emmons
I had some friends who were Italian architects and they were obsessed with Second Life.
jeff younger
Because you could build stuff in there, yeah.
tim pool
I used to play World of Warcraft and I will tell you this... Night Elf?
unidentified
I was.
tim pool
Human Rogue.
ian crossland
Night Elf Druid.
tim pool
What about you?
jeff younger
Night Elf Druid.
Most powerful in the whole game.
ian crossland
He's just so versatile.
tim pool
Well, the versatility was good.
jeff younger
Paladins are good too.
ian crossland
Yeah, they're amazing.
jeff younger
I think they're a little overpowered.
tim pool
What I always found funny was that when I would play Rogue and do PvP I had no problem You guys used to piss me off.
People would complain that warriors were too strong and rogues couldn't kill them.
So they patch it and make rogues stronger.
And I'm just like, this is the most ridiculous thing ever, just because these people didn't know how to play.
But what happens is Blizzard keeps going in and seeing like, well, we gave them the tools to play the character properly,
but they couldn't figure it out.
So they're not having fun.
So we better change the game to make it fun.
It's made it easier.
jeff younger
Rogues are so deadly.
I remember standing out with my night elf, shooting out arrows, you know, to catch their invisibility.
tim pool
Just aiming randomly?
jeff younger
Just aiming randomly, because I don't know where they are, and they just keep backstabbing me over and over.
tim pool
Oh, and see, Vanilla was the best with preparation.
Because then you'd, like, the bleeds.
So, like, I never had a problem with warriors.
You would just, like, you'd go up, you garrote, you hemorrhage, hemorrhage, you bleed, then you vanish, then you just wait.
You wait as the warrior's screaming and swinging at nothing.
And then once the bleeds go down, you go up and do it all over again, then you prep, then you vanish again, then you wait.
And I'm like, it's the easiest thing in the world people complained about.
ian crossland
The problem is because it's capture the flag.
If it was just one on one, you could handle a rogue.
tim pool
What do you mean?
ian crossland
Well, I could handle a rogue one on one, but I had a goal I had to go do.
So I had to forget about the guy behind me.
unidentified
Yeah.
ian crossland
And I couldn't stay on the rogue.
jeff younger
It was the invisibility.
You could not, you didn't know where to attack.
ian crossland
They needed to be, like, shimmery so you could at least see them.
unidentified
Oh, no.
tim pool
That ruins the purpose.
ian crossland
They changed Heroes of the Storm.
It was brutal.
jeff younger
Absolutely brutal.
ian crossland
It was OP.
jeff younger
I can't believe we're, like, bonding over WoW here.
tim pool
But here's the thing.
Vanilla, right before the release of Burning Crusade, was the best it ever was.
That's it.
And then once Burning Crusade came out, it sucked.
And then what was next?
Like Wrath of the Lich King or something?
jeff younger
Yes.
tim pool
I was done.
I just stopped.
ian crossland
I liked flying.
jeff younger
It's the last one I played was Wrath of the Lich King.
tim pool
I think flying kind of ruined it.
Because it used to be when you couldn't fly, there was so much to do.
And me and my friends would go glitch hopping and find all the exploits and then risk getting banned and we'd get warnings.
But we would go underneath Stormwind and then Yeah, because there was an area where you could glitch through the walls.
jeff younger
Yes, I remember this.
tim pool
I used to go on top of Undercity, and they took all of that fun stuff away.
It was like they created this universe that you could go into and play games and had missions, but there was also, we'd look on the map and we'd be like, hey, has anyone ever realized this portion of the continent we've never been to?
jeff younger
Right, right.
tim pool
We go there and there's no way in, so we start glitch hopping,
basically jumping until we find a way to break through, and then we're in this big flat space
with literally nothing in it, and we're on the map.
Then we message our friends being like, look where we are, look where,
and then they took it all the way from us.
ian crossland
Did you get into the center of Duskwood?
You know, there's that big, where you see stitches for the first time,
you guys know what I'm talking about?
Yes.
There's that big mountainous area in the middle.
Yeah.
jeff younger
Is there something in there?
I never found anything in there.
I went all around it.
People are calling us soy boys for playing World of Warcraft.
I didn't fly, so you could probably go up there now.
tim pool
It just ruined it.
And that's why I think when people started releasing the vanilla versions, the classic, that people got really into it.
And then Blizzard got mad and sent lawyers to shut them all down, then launched their version.
And I tried playing vanilla, and I'm like, they lost it, man.
It's not there.
All of the fun shenanigans were just lost.
ian crossland
I'm just going to harvest so many peace blooms until I want to blow my freaking brains out.
I'm like, what am I doing with my life?
I could be making a TV show.
tim pool
They need to stop doing expansions and literally just do WoW 2 and start a new game from scratch, which is something new and fresh, because now the economy's ruined, the whole game makes no sense, and I just stopped playing it.
I played Legion, and then I've played like every expansion and then given up really quickly.
ian crossland
You know, I cannot find an MMO that's good.
I think it's got to be the next Evolution of video gaming, which is VRAR, where you are in the reality.
jeff younger
I really enjoy MMOs, but the cheating just drives me away every time.
Like, there's just so much cheating that goes on.
I play DayZ, for example, a lot, and just, like, cheater after cheater after cheater.
ian crossland
Like aim bots?
jeff younger
Yeah.
I just give up.
And they can see you through walls, and, you know, people doing, like, headshots from 200 meters with pistols.
tim pool
Yeah, it's all cheating.
We'll grab a couple more here.
Okay.
MF Damien says, Rogan used to have a thick Boston accent and trained it out.
Maybe that's why.
Yeah.
He's got a unique voice.
It's like, you know, I don't know.
Some people could probably do it.
It's just some people are easier to impersonate than others.
ian crossland
A lot of it's the body, structure of the body.
So like, unless you have Rogan's body, you're not going to have that horny sound when it comes out of the mouth.
tim pool
We got one more real quick.
Todd B says, have you heard the insane idea that they are floating of using brain dead women as surrogates?
libby emmons
Yes.
jeff younger
No, I've not heard that.
tim pool
News story, they said women who are brain dead could donate their bodies for surrogacy.
libby emmons
I did read that this morning.
There's also this really innovative idea where they're talking about taking the wombs from transitioned young girls and implanting them in men who want to have the full female experience.
It obviously won't work, but that didn't stop the NIH in the UK from putting a bunch of money behind this plan.
tim pool
They keep saying it, but men don't have the pelvis for this.
libby emmons
No, obviously not.
But the NIH was doing research and throwing money at it anyway.
jeff younger
It's like the Sex is a Spectrum stuff.
ian crossland
It's all this.
tim pool
All right, everybody.
If you haven't already, would you kindly smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends, become a member at TimCast.com to support our work directly.
You can follow the show at TimCast IRL.
You can follow me personally at TimCast.
Jeff, do you want to shout anything out?
jeff younger
Yeah, you can look for me on Twitter at JeffYungerTX.
You can also find me at my sub stack JeffYunger.substack.com for long form stuff.
tim pool
Right on.
libby emmons
I'm Libby Emmons.
I'm at Libby Emmons on Twitter, and you can check out what we're doing at ThePostMillennial.com.
jeff younger
I love The Post Millennial.
ian crossland
Yeah.
Shout out to The Post Millennial.
libby emmons
Hey, thanks guys.
ian crossland
Jeff, thanks for coming, man.
That was awesome.
I pray for your wife, your ex-wife, and your kids.
The best for everybody involved.
This is great.
jeff younger
Thank you.
ian crossland
It's really wonderful to see you, dude.
jeff younger
Thank you.
ian crossland
Yeah.
Bye, everyone.
jeff younger
And I'm Serge.com.
Sorry for the error there, guys.
unidentified
I just had to grab the mic.
I was trying not to talk too much, and I pressed the wrong button.
It happens.
tim pool
All right, everybody.
Thanks for supporting us.
Thanks for watching.
We're going to have clips up all throughout the weekend, so you can watch those.
And other than that, we will see you all back again Monday.
But I think we're having some really big shows next week.
Stay tuned.
I think our Wednesday show, I can't say too much, but we'll be in a special location.
That's what we're planning.
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