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Feb. 24, 2021 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool
02:16:23
Timcast IRL - Twitter SUSPENDS Crowder After Claiming PROOF Of Fake Voter Addresses w/Mike Cernovich
Participants
Main voices
l
luke rudkowski
14:23
m
mike cernovich
56:09
t
tim pool
01:01:00
Appearances
i
ian crossland
02:38
Clips
l
lydia smith
00:22
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
unidentified
you you
tim pool
you ladies and gentlemen I've got here a special logger
I'm going to crack it open.
Pour one out for our good friend Steven Crowder.
No, I'm not really going to pour it out.
I don't want to get beer all over my studio.
I'll actually drink it.
Crowder got locked out on Twitter.
Oh, now I spilled it.
You see what happens when I try and do a stupid bit?
luke rudkowski
Like Marco Rubio.
tim pool
Crowder got locked out!
Like Marco Rubio.
Is that what he did?
He spilled beer?
unidentified
He had the little baby bottle and he was very awkward about it.
tim pool
So Crowder goes on Twitter.
He has a segment where he sent some, I guess you can call them investigative journalists.
To look into voter addresses that were in a database and turns out there are a bunch of parking lots.
He had them hold up a newspaper from this week and Crowder is saying he can prove, this is what Crowder is saying, that many of these addresses in these databases don't actually exist.
That's all he's saying.
He tweeted that.
Twitter has locked him out for 12 hours.
I'll tell you what's really annoying.
I tweeted that he's been suspended.
I put in the title of this video, he's been suspended because that's what suspend means.
Suspend is temporary.
But Twitter likes to claim suspension.
They use that word because ban is so harsh and it's bad press.
So they'll suspend you permanently.
Yeah, okay.
Permanent suspension.
That's dumb.
It's a temporary suspension.
He'll be back, and he'll probably have a ton to say, but we're going to talk about what he found, and I'm sure many of you saw his segment from the morning, so I think there's a lot to talk about in this regard, and what happened with the Supreme Court, because Clarence Thomas basically dropped a hammer saying, it looks like there was a good argument from these Republicans in Pennsylvania about mail-in voting.
We'll get into all that stuff.
We've got a bunch of other articles, obviously.
We always do.
We'll talk about Coca-Cola, because LinkedIn is now panicking after Coca-Cola said, try to be less white.
Now LinkedIn is getting flack for it.
So we'll get into all that stuff.
We also have something tweeted by Matthew Iglesias.
He's one of the co-founders of Vox.com.
He tweeted something about how he wanted to, like, just cause drama.
And it's a poll about men and women and who wants to be working at home and who wants to be working.
And so obviously, no matter what the poll results are, he's trying to light the internet on fire.
But I think it's a good subject.
We'll talk about it.
And we actually have someone here who is probably a good person to talk about a lot of this stuff.
We got Mike Cernovich.
mike cernovich
Thanks for having me.
tim pool
Do you want to introduce yourself?
mike cernovich
Yeah, Mike Cernovich.
Just got in town.
Long trip.
It's good to see everyone.
tim pool
You seem wiped out.
mike cernovich
No, not wiped out at all.
It's just whenever it's somebody else's show, I like to let them pace it.
tim pool
Yeah.
mike cernovich
Because I just don't believe in going into someone else's show and be like, you know, here we are.
tim pool
Oh, well, do it to it, man.
mike cernovich
Yeah, you gotta find the rhythm with the other person or else they'll... Well, how would you describe yourself for those that might not be familiar with you?
You know, at this point, I don't even know, man.
I just hang out with my kids all the time now, but I'm still sort of an entity that exists that can get attention and move the needle on certain things.
But I started off primarily doing mindset work, guerrilla mindset.
pull up a little bit yeah yeah I primarily started off doing mindset work
gorilla mindset start off as a lawyer that rain into you the first time at the
I think you were with Fusion.
And that was your, I think, early iterations.
That was where everybody was like, don't talk to that guy.
That guy's at Fusion.
Avoid that guy.
unidentified
They're woke.
mike cernovich
Avoid that guy.
tim pool
I was hanging out with Luke.
luke rudkowski
I remember meeting you there too.
Some guy lit himself on fire.
mike cernovich
Yeah, we got that great video of the person burning a flag and then somebody went to kick the flag out and then it got caught in a woman's dress, actually.
She had this long flowing dress.
And then that was where I just got into the carnage of the media political world and probably, you know, at the conventions.
And I'd done other little things here and there.
And then, you know, I just kind of like became a thing, plugged along.
My friends got all hired in the White House.
So then I had all the, like, the best stories and sources and everything.
So then we'd break all that stuff.
and then you're like a movie but I mean hey I was in your movie you guys are the best parts yeah Bilderberg yeah Luke Bilderberg so you guys are it's weird cuz I'm the oldest guy but you guys are like ancient in terms of having been around much longer in this world I was like, wait, that was Luke at Bilderberg in, I don't know, 2012 or something.
unidentified
2007.
mike cernovich
Yeah, a long time ago.
tim pool
I think it's interesting how you gained a lot of prominence as one of the highest profile Trump supporters, but then you started calling out.
It's going to be interesting as we get into, you know, talking about Crowder and stuff.
You started talking about how, like, it's over, basically.
You're like, these people are duping you who are claiming that there's going to be some magic turnaround.
People got mad at you for it.
A lot of Trump supporters were mad, but you were right.
mike cernovich
Yeah, because I came from, you know, like a law background, law school.
I knew all the Federalist Society people.
I know how elite people kind of think.
I was actually chapter president in law school for my own society.
So I've done all these little things, met all the right people, the white shoe people.
And I'm just like, this is not the way the world works.
And people get mad because one thing Trump did that was amazing is he brought out what they call low propensity voters, but people who don't actually vote.
So this was their first election.
So they come in and they want to like tell me things and I'm like, what you're telling me is wrong.
Everything you're telling me is wrong.
Everything from how the Supreme Court operates to how the Supreme Court, because if you talk about the Clarence Thomas dissent from denial of certiorari, the idea is the Supreme Court is an institution that makes political decisions.
It isn't just a bunch of judges looking up the law and making these choices.
They're saying, well, after January 6th, do you want to risk the legitimacy of the court to side with Trump who Right.
Does anybody really like him anyway?
tim pool
We'll get into all that, especially with the Crowder stuff.
We also got Luke.
He's hanging out.
luke rudkowski
Welcome back, beautiful and amazing human beings.
This is Okudowski of WeAreChange.org.
I like a high pace, as you can see here, with my conversations.
And I think the shirt I'm wearing, I need to clarify, statistically is correct.
And it says, for your information, the government is way deadlier than any virus.
Historically, that's true.
And if you want to support me and get the shirt, you can on thebestpoliticalshirts.com.
Thanks so much for having me.
I love the conversations here.
ian crossland
What up, guys?
I'm Ian Crosland coming at you from the internets.
Mike, you mentioned Guerrilla Mindset.
I just wanted to show this book.
This is your book, and you wrote this in 2015.
Can you tell me, what is this exactly?
mike cernovich
Yeah, I mean, it did well, too.
It actually did a lot.
It was a mindset book for men, but it was more like manual.
By manual, I mean like a manual.
Versus, hey, get rah-rah, get hyped up, get motivated, because the genre of self-help or self-development is largely YouTube videos of a guy saying, and then he dragged me into the water and was gonna drown me and said, but you want success so much that you're gonna drown, then you really want it in your heart.
And I thought, that's just kind of dumb.
You're sitting around watching YouTube videos all day.
What's an actual specific a step-by-step program that you can take and apply.
And it's largely written for introverts.
There's a lot of stuff there about self-talk, a lot of there about rewiring memories in your mind, rewiring your thought processes.
So it's about going deep into yourself on a mindset level.
And that one I did in, that came out in 2015.
ian crossland
Where's the best place people can get these?
tim pool
We'll definitely get to that later.
So we also have side-patch lists.
lydia smith
I am here pushing the buttons.
I'm going to love this conversation.
I can tell already.
tim pool
And before we get started, head over to TimCast.com to become a member.
We've got a bunch of exclusive members-only podcasts.
We just did a full hour with Sydney Watson the other day.
She was here on the show.
And then we just started talking about kangaroos for whatever reason.
And then we also have, we have just basically three back-to-back full bonus episodes.
So go to TimCast.com, become a member.
You can watch those episodes.
And it just helps protect us in the event that we eventually get nuked because we're going to be, we're talking about this a lot, I guess.
Steven Crowder is locked out of Twitter and, you know, so.
Sign up and make sure we don't, you know, lose it.
That being said, let's jump to the first story.
I tweeted this.
Steven Crowder has been suspended from Twitter after saying he can confirm that people voted at addresses that do not exist.
He stated the same in a video.
So you may have seen the video.
It came up earlier this morning.
He, uh, did this on his morning show.
He literally sent people to addresses.
Let me see if I can pull up, like, a screenshot.
I'm trying to find it.
There we go.
Wait, we just lost it.
So, there we go.
Is that?
Let me see.
I'll just play a little clip from this, from his bit.
So, you can see they're holding up the newspaper.
They go, and they find these, like, well, this is just like, looks like a house.
Here we go.
Empty parking lots?
One of them that was really interesting was that they're holding up a newspaper and they show an empty parking lot and apparently there was supposed to be an apartment number 409.
Now, I'll put it very, very simply.
Crowder claimed all of this on YouTube.
He straight up said that he can prove it and he will testify under penalty of perjury that this is true, these addresses do not exist.
I'm simply saying, he's saying it, I'm showing you what I saw.
It looks compelling.
I wouldn't need to actually check the addresses because, I gotta be honest, I'm just seeing Crowder's video, but I don't think he'd go and he'd make this up.
The crazy thing is, Crowder did not say, he actually clarified this very, very clearly, that he's not saying this is evidence of any, you know, bigger scheme or anything like that, just that they found evidence of addresses that don't exist.
That's all it is.
It doesn't mean the entire election is bunk or anything like that, but they should certainly be looked into, right?
That's...
Well, that's as far as any reasonable person would go until you get to like courts or adjudication.
Twitter took down, locked his account because he tweeted this.
That to me is absolutely insane because he actually has video showing this.
So he did put up an article on his website and he says, proof we went to fake voter addresses.
He talks quite a bit about it, but that's the gist of the story.
You should check out his bit too because it was pretty funny where he kind of talks about Mike Lindell having this bad information.
believing this Dominion stuff and I was getting sued over it. But he also mentions that, you know,
Mike Lindell has this documentary called Absolute Proof and Crowder did the segment called like
Absolute Proof 100% Fair Trade Definitive and all that stuff. So I actually I think, you know,
considering Mike, you're a lawyer, I'm curious what your thoughts are, because we should we
should definitely talk about the Supreme Court as well and Pennsylvania. Yeah, the so that was
mike cernovich
another reason that I clash so much with the first time Trump voters is they were coming.
They were saying all this Dominion stuff.
I'm like, no, that's not how it works.
There was no shootout.
Like I'm like, why am I the debunker?
My job.
tim pool
You mean in Germany?
They claimed servers were being airlifted.
Yeah, it's crazy.
luke rudkowski
Satellites in Italy.
Someone was telling me that.
I'm like, huh?
mike cernovich
Are you kidding me?
And I hate doing that because Trump supporters are so attacked on every side.
The last thing I want to do is shoot inside the bunker.
But I don't want people to believe things that are wrong.
And the problem here, to tie you to that point with Crowder, there was a guy, you guys would know his name, I forget it right now, but he went through and did an analysis like this of nursing homes, halfway houses, other areas, and by the way, I'm not making any claims.
But it showed like, oh wow, so there's a hundred votes came out of here.
Some of them are supposedly mail drops.
There were a lot of things that you could look at, like Crowder looked at, but instead everybody now thinks the narrative is that a few goofballs on the internet, or in the case of Mike Lindell, a successful entrepreneur who believes what he said, which as a lawyer makes that a really interesting case because usually, as you know, To sue someone for defamation, you have to show actual malice.
Malice doesn't mean that you didn't like the person.
Malice means that you didn't actually believe what you were saying.
Or you entertained doubts about what you were saying.
tim pool
That Michael Lindell knew what he was saying was false.
The dude believes it all.
mike cernovich
Yeah, he believes.
And he's like, hell yeah, you're suing me.
This is amazing.
I can't wait to see you guys in court.
So as a lawyer, this is actually a newer area of law, like how do you actually get him for defamation?
But the problem is that became the whole narrative of it where now Mark Elias and other people say, oh, the Trump people filed a hundred lawsuits.
None of them went anywhere.
This is proof there was nothing there.
And it's like, no, they filed like a couple.
One of them was the Pennsylvania one that didn't get heard.
And when you look at the issues that they tried to resolve, they were quite interesting.
Or if you look at the evidence that was presented that Crowder is presenting, it's quite interesting.
It's the kind of thing that makes you go, hmm, maybe you should think about, but that's been completely hidden in the squid ink of this Dominion stuff and all the weird conspiracy.
I rarely call someone a conspiracy theory, but there's no other word for that kind of stuff.
tim pool
If I had to have a conspiracy, it would be that the conspiracies are the conspiracy to derail the actual conspiracy.
You see?
You see what I did there?
mike cernovich
No, I believe that.
I'm not saying it's true.
tim pool
I'm just joking.
mike cernovich
No, but I actually vacillate between, because there's some people that are so, they lead people down such a bad path that you think in life, you get lucky.
You're going to have some wins and you're just a loss after loss after loss.
So I'm a little COINTELPRO conspiracy oriented to where I do think a lot of people do set you up.
luke rudkowski
Well, you don't need to have a conspiracy here.
We have Cass Sunstein, Obama's information czar, that literally wrote the playbook on disinformation, and he talked about creating fake conspiracies to make anyone questioning government look insane.
And he did this specifically with a lot of family members and rescue workers in New York City after the 2001 events.
He wrote it in his own bylines, in his own published paper.
I asked him about it.
He denied even writing it, even though it's still up there on the internet.
Where is it published?
It was published in one of scientific journals that he wrote about how to combat and fight disinformation and one of his ways was infiltrating groups in real life and online and making them look crazy.
tim pool
And that's what I kept complaining about when these people come out with these really absurd conspiracies about like C.I.A.
agents storming German servers and then like Italy and whatever.
I'm like, who cares?
Who cares?
We've got a constitutional legal battle happening in Pennsylvania that's more important and could have a bigger result.
mike cernovich
You had credible testimony under oath in the Michigan hearings.
I actually watched the hearings and my jaws were dropping.
You had credible Normal, decent people providing eyewitness testimony of what they saw, but nobody watched the hearings.
The Pennsylvania hearing, that didn't really get covered.
The Michigan one, which I found quite persuasive, wasn't really covered.
So now when people think of, you know, I don't want F-R-A-U-D of the election, then...
That's what they think is all this really kooky stuff, when actually there were issues.
There were issues with people changing the rules midstream, which is what happened in Pennsylvania.
Whereas you aptly tweeted, if they change the rules and you sue, they go, well, you don't have standing, nothing bad has happened.
And then the rules are applied, and then you sue, and they go, well, it's too late now, it's moot.
Right?
It's like Catch-22, yeah.
tim pool
That's a horrifying precedent.
And that's basically what we got with Clarence Thomas, in his dissent.
He said, we failed to, you know, Right, and that was a legitimate legal issue.
mike cernovich
That was a legitimate case that should have been heard.
But the Supreme Court justices, I think Kavanaugh and Barrett, I think they would have heard it had January 6th not happened.
And moreover, had there not been all of these, the Linwood stuff and all this other things that people brought up, you don't want to be caught up in that net of, here's all the kooks and the kooks are in the net, and now you're a Supreme Court justice and you're in the net with them.
tim pool
I hear you, but man, talk about cowards.
I wouldn't care.
I don't care.
mike cernovich
Okay, well, I'll make the case for them, then.
I'll make the case for John Roberts as an institutionalist.
The way that John Roberts would say it, if you were being candid, is that this is how you learn it in federal courts and law school, and the Supreme Court is a co-equal branch of government, just like the Congress and just like the executive branch.
They had to fight and scrape for all their legitimacy and all their power.
The Supreme Court was not powerful at all, actually, before the Warren Court in the 1950s.
So what do they have?
They don't have guns.
They don't have a budget.
They don't have any real power.
All their power is soft power.
So if you're going to enter an area where there's such a narrative that's already set so strongly, as there is now with this election stuff, then you're attacking or you're going to make the institution weaker by doing it.
Now, you would come back and say why you don't agree with that, and I would agree with you.
But that would be what John Roberts would argue.
So when people talk about John Roberts, a lot of conservatives, people especially, he's an institutionalist.
So fundamentally, even Comey was the same way.
Comey was way worse, crooked, so maybe not the right example.
The idea is you protect the institution, the institution of the Supreme Court.
That means you have to pick your battles.
And if you're going through the calculus, you're thinking, yeah, you know, do we really want to get involved in all this stuff when there's talk of insurrection?
tim pool
It could be that it's a fight they knew they weren't going to win anyway, so they said it was moot.
mike cernovich
Yeah, exactly.
And some people call it a cop-out, which is a fair point.
Other people will say that you have to protect the soft power of the Supreme Court.
And there's a fair point to that, because a lot of our institutions have lost soft power.
ian crossland
When you say that he would fear that it's going to weaken the institution, is that that it will weaken the perception of the institution through the media?
mike cernovich
Well, yeah, through the collective hive mind.
So the idea is that the Supreme Court can't cut anyone's budget.
But Congress, if they wanted to, could cut the law clerk budget.
There's all these different ways that they could mess with them.
The Supreme Court, if they want to have an order in force, they can't have the FBI kick down the door and take power.
Their rule is by reason.
Their rule is by soft power.
Their rule is by people saying, that's the Supreme Court opinion.
That really means something.
After Bush vs. Gore, you got to remember, if we hadn't had 9-11, Bush vs. Gore would have been four years of Bush being the orange man.
The institution of the court, the soft power of the court, had declined significantly because it was a close opinion on partisan lines, and it was a little dodgy even by my assessment of it.
So you had a loss of institutional power, a loss of soft power, the idea that this is the Supreme Court, this is an edict, you should follow it because Ultimately, if the Supreme Court issues a ruling that an executive officer doesn't like, the president could just say, well, who cares, right?
There was a, I believe it was Andrew Jackson, who said the Supreme Court has issued their ruling, now let them enforce it.
That, all that historical background is swirling around.
And it is fundamentally true.
If the Supreme Court issued a ruling and Trump didn't want to follow it, he could just say, we're just not going to abide by this rule.
What are you going to do?
I have my Praetorian Guard.
So there's a lot of conflict there.
And soft power is kind of an amorphous term too, which is how do people rule?
Well, the Supreme Court, they don't have any hard power.
Congress has hard power, right?
unidentified
Like what?
tim pool
Subpoena power?
mike cernovich
Well, by hard power I mean they can actually do things to you, like you don't have a budget, the lights aren't going to work, they can pass laws making something a crime, they have an enforcement mechanism, whereas even the media, to put a different example, the media has no hard power, it's soft power.
As more people just say, we don't really care.
As Elon Musk tells the Washington Post, I don't care, I'm not going to answer your articles.
And as more people say, we like Elon, we don't like the media, who cares?
The media doesn't have any power anymore, right?
The power is only in that ability to shape public opinion, the ability that, oh, this is in the New York Times, this must be matter, this must be true, this is how we're going to live our lives.
So that's the Supreme Court, even though it's a branch of government.
luke rudkowski
Elon's response was pretty telling today because the Washington Post quoted him as saying, quote, give my regards to your puppet masters when they asked him for an interview.
So he didn't just like shun them away.
He made sure to send them a message, especially to the Washington Post, which is being seen more of an institutional establishment kind of paper of record for the intelligence agencies.
tim pool
I won't.
I won't do interviews with any of these people.
I won't.
I ignore them.
And honestly, even in, like, smaller independent and, you know, whatever, you know, channels, I won't do that for the most part either.
There's very, very few anything I'll do with anyone else.
The whole system is just, man, is a clown show, to put it mildly.
mike cernovich
Right.
And their soft power has declined.
So here's what I mean by that is it used to be that a hit piece would actually kind of damage you, right?
You got hit, you got written about it, said bad things.
People say, Ooh, I don't know if I want to talk to that person to be around that person.
And then it changed the point where I don't even respond.
Only kind of boomers like Jordan Peterson respond to hit pieces.
Oh, read this mean thing they said about me.
Everybody else knows your people aren't even gonna read it.
99 of them aren't even gonna read it, first of all.
The ones who do read it aren't even gonna believe it.
So even if the media writes something about you critical that's true, Your own followers are gonna say, oh, they probably just made the whole thing up, the whole thing's fake.
That's a change, though, and that's what I mean by the soft power, the ability to shape narrative, the ability to shape public perception.
tim pool
I gotta be honest, if that's, I hear what you're saying, and I understand it, and that sounds to me like the Supreme Court is a bunch of cowards, they're weak, they're pathetic, they have no real power anyway, and it sounds like you've got these three branches of government where they pretend the Supreme Court is co-equal, when in reality, they're like the loser kids in the corner of the playground And their only claim to power, they're like that little kid in recess who would suck up to the teacher, is just crossing their fingers and hoping you listen to them.
If they're not actually going to stand up for anything, then what's the point of having it in the first place?
mike cernovich
Well, they would say that they're just a check on government and that checks should be used in exceptional circumstances and under limited circumstances.
That was the idea.
That's why when people talk about judicial activism, they're talking about the court taking a very active role as the Warren card.
Oh, there's a right to this, there's a right to this, there's a right to that, there's a right to that.
These rights are protected.
The other rule, or rather the other view of the court is a more conservative one, jurisprudentially, not necessarily politically, which is that the Supreme Court shouldn't get involved in this kind of stuff.
So I'll give you a great example.
If the Senate had convicted Trump and Trump had tried to sue in the Supreme Court, there's
something called the political question doctrine, which holds that they would just say, this
isn't for us to decide.
This is a political question.
So there's things called abstention doctrines, which is a little bit different from standing.
But the idea of abstention is, even when the Supreme Court has jurisdiction, they won't
hear the case under these various doctrines.
So you're right in the sense that they're not the most powerful, but somebody like John
John Roberts would maybe cheekily respond, That's the point.
We are the little kids.
We're not the one who's supposed to exercise this power.
tim pool
If that were the case, and it sounds like it is, then that means serious trouble for this country.
It means there's no resolution to serious disputes.
It means that the conflict that has been escalating over the past several years will have no resolution.
Your hope is that this council of legal experts and elders can step in and say, we've heard the arguments and we will now be the tiebreaker, the referee in this one.
Instead, they said, you've complained.
You've actually brought up some interesting arguments.
Shove it.
luke rudkowski
Yeah.
I mean, look at the way Andrew Cuomo treated the Supreme Court.
They told him, they ruled his lockdown orders were unconstitutional.
He said, I don't care.
I'm just going to do new ones that don't apply to this specific one.
So, you know, seeing Andrew Cuomo do this really kind of signals that the Supreme Court is not going to be your savior, like many people expect them to be.
ian crossland
I think the Supreme Court is like a lens that's focusing the law for the American people to see clearly.
And it's up to us as the people to enforce what they can kind of show us.
But that's all they really do is pass through ideas.
tim pool
It's meaningless.
mike cernovich
Well, I would say this though, as critical as I might be the Supreme Court or federal judges, especially in federal courts, I would trust a federal judge.
If I had to choose some kind of like gambit, do you trust this random member of Congress with your rights?
Do you trust the president with your rights?
Trump or Biden?
Or do you trust a federal judge with your rights?
I would trust the federal judge the most.
tim pool
I think you'd be better off choosing a partisan member of your tribe in a political party.
mike cernovich
Yeah, but we're doing a Rawlsian veil of ignorance thing, though.
We're saying that you can't get to pick.
Like, I would obviously, you know, choose.
If you could choose the referee, you can't.
But if you're looking at just in terms of the system, I would still say the courts
are better equipped and more likely to to vindicate or care about individual rights.
And the flip side, too, is the January 6th.
I mean, if you're an adult and you watch that, you say that's a bad thing, you know.
But 9-11, 9-11.
We live in a childish world where every adult's gonna be like, yeah, this is bad.
You know, you need to suss out who is doing what.
But we have to, we're supposed to basically pretend, which I say we ought, we live in like the age of pretend, which is, oh my, that was a 9-11.
Holy cow event so it's this fake emotion and the Supreme Court they're sensitive to that the idea that it's 9-11
But in a way it's worse than 9-11 because the 9-11 terrorists all got pro-bono legal representation by the
most elite lawyers in the country Yeah, none of those elite lawyers are gonna do anything for
tim pool
these Trump supporters these MAGA moms outside of that people who have been detained in
Guantanamo Bay will get these very high prestigious pro, you know pro bono lawyers
luke rudkowski
ACLU donating their time.
tim pool
But you get Bernice from Oklahoma who's being charged with two misdemeanors for trespass, and a lot of them are, and the lawyer's like, I'm not going anywhere near that.
mike cernovich
And what's worse about that is they're being held This is the thing where, if you're a lawyer, you're, like, screaming on the inside, because... In federal courts, a little different than state, there's something called the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, and it varies, like, mathematical.
Is it your first offense?
Was it a non-violent offense?
What did you actually do when you get your, like, time?
Most of the indictments I've read are Bernice, some MAGA grandma, you know, read some weird thing on the internet, showed up, didn't know there was a riot, because she's just following the crowd, walks in, oh, hi, everybody!
And she's just smiling and thinks nothing happened.
Well, that's trespass.
That's a day in jail, maybe.
But they're being held without bail.
Right?
So they're actually going to do more time pre-trial as opposed to the opposite because you're presumed innocent.
tim pool
This is the scary thing about what we're seeing, right?
So there's some other stories we can maybe get into a little bit, like the FBI seizing congressional phone records saying that members of Congress are now suspects.
You've got Naomi Wolf, she recently went on Tucker Carlson saying totalitarianism is here, and we'll jump into those and get into those in fuller detail in just a second.
But what's scary is The Democrats will not stop.
They won't.
The Republicans are worthless.
Republican leadership is an oxymoron.
And they're basically just like, you know, Democrats, do your thing.
The Democrats are basically saying, we will use the most insane interpretation of anything that we saw.
We will use every bit of power we have.
And the Republicans would never do that.
They're too weak.
So the Democrats are going to start steamrolling people.
People who... There's some video where the cops opened the door to the Capitol and people just walked in confused.
Confused and bewildered.
Those people are now facing serious jail time.
Then you have the year of riots, where people literally burned down buildings.
What did Merrick Garland say?
Well, it's extremism because it happened at night, but it's terror because it was during the day or something like that?
I understand going after... Going after, like, the Electoral College vote count is very, very serious.
But don't you think burning down buildings and destroying cities and what the 19 plus dead directly from the riots as well as the chas where they pumped for 10 minutes hundreds of rounds into an SUV with two teenagers in it.
These people shouldn't many of them be facing jail time as well.
mike cernovich
Well, but that's a quaint view of American equality, right?
Will Chamberlain talks about how the media, these people in DC, they're like the patrician class and we're kind of like the peasant class.
I call it the new Jim Crow, which is a little absurd given, you know, what had happened there, but, you know, it all starts a little bit early.
The idea is like, I know that I'm a second class citizen.
I just know it.
I accept it.
That's why I'm not on the internet.
Why can't I tweet out?
Because I can't.
Because I'm not fully human to them.
I fully understand it.
I might not like it, but I get it.
So when you understand that if you're perceived as conservative or right wing, you are not a human being to these people.
Then, they don't care if your building's burned down.
They care that their capital building, which is, by the way, taxpayer-funded.
As an American, I'm way more outraged that some mom can't feed her kids because her business was built down than they care that some, like, taxpayer-funded building is gonna have to be repaired.
That's all taxpayer money, anyway.
But that's a very outdated and archaic model of all of us being equal as Americans.
tim pool
No, that's... I agree, and I say it all the time, like, what's the point of me doing a video where I'm like, look at this double standard?
Duh, we all know it.
These... now, I mean, granted, we're seeing this really hilarious thing with the New York Times and Slate, you know, personalities are getting fired.
They're losing that protection as well.
So I will say there is some optimism in that regard that they're eating themselves faster and faster to the point where they might just not be whatever it is they're doing.
The establishment media, the soft power, will be going away.
mike cernovich
Well, if all you do is hypocrisy, then yeah, you're like, that's a conservative cliche.
There's that meme, here lies conservatism.
Then the headstone says something like, imagine if it were a Democrat.
But there's this other...
Lindsey something-or-another.
I realize people on Twitter don't even know their names, but he said the idea is you're putting sand in the gears.
So the idea is I know for a fact that it annoys Chris Cuomo and Jake Taper and these people.
They do get annoyed.
Now are they going to change their minds?
Are they going to be better?
Not really, but it annoys them.
And sometimes all you can do, as a second-class citizen, as somebody who's essentially without institutional power, you can just annoy these people a little bit.
And then you have, you know, an instance like Chris Pomo, where he melts down on a guy, threatens to throw a guy down the stairs, and, you know, is completely losing it.
So you know that he's bothered by it.
That's sometimes all you can do, and I think that's worth doing.
But for someone like you, or other people like Ben Shapiro, or you, Luke, or just anybody with a big platform, when that's all I see in your time, I'm like, oh my god.
Go do something, especially when people have money.
That's when I get really triggered.
Like when it's Trump campaign people, it's like, okay, you guys raised $250 million post-election to investigate whatever you're going to investigate.
Why don't you take, I mean, you know what it costs.
Take $25 million and you could hire a full army of investigative reporters.
Like, oh, well, why doesn't CNN cover this?
I don't know.
Why don't you hire 50 reporters, though?
unidentified
They don't really care.
mike cernovich
No, they don't.
Exactly.
That's a scam.
And that's where I get into it with MAGA people, because you know what it costs.
I know what it costs.
Everybody here knows what it costs.
So we're like, look, they got $250 million, dude.
You're going to give them more money?
You are an idiot.
That's what I tell them.
And people don't like to hear that, but I don't really care.
tim pool
They could take a million dollars.
and hire eight, nine, ten reporters. I mean, you don't got to give them a six figures,
hire 20 and give them all 40 something thousand a year and people will do it.
Right now people have lost their jobs. You can find people to do this, but you're right,
they had $250 million. I don't think they actually really cared. More importantly,
I think Trump cared, but people around him certainly did not and weren't there to help
him. They were there to extract as much as they could from him. And well, he fell for it.
mike cernovich
I mean, he fell for it, but moreover, the problem that I had is like the donors fell for it.
I'm always like, demand more of your leaders.
I think that's why, again, I differ from a lot of Trump people is, the idea is like, if you go to bed tonight and you wake up, you're not gonna be like, oh god, I just had Mike on my show and he's tweeting and bombs.
unidentified
What?
mike cernovich
Indigestion.
You're never gonna wake up with indigestion.
That's how you should be if you're Trump.
You should just realize, okay, I don't want my people to wake up with indigestion.
I know people like to have a lot of fun.
I know that we should keep it light.
I know they like a little bit of trolling.
But I don't want people just to wake up with the complete case of, you know, what did I really do?
And Trump would kind of do that over and over again, and that's where he became his own worst enemy.
Or even stuff like, early on I never liked, was the beefing with LeBron James.
Like, you're president now, dude.
You can beef with LeBron James in 2015.
In 2018, guess what?
You don't get to do that anymore.
luke rudkowski
Or slam Duncan on Rosie while his supporters are being kicked off the internet.
There's this famous saying that there's a meme about that says people who believe in politicians think that strippers actually like them.
They don't.
Politicians don't like you either.
And a lot of them, sadly, are being used for their personal benefit.
And a lot of it is not being done for your benefit.
tim pool
Well, let's do that.
Let's use that to jump into this next story, which I pulled up the best source imaginable for this.
This is the Independent Women's Forum.
They say feminist author and former Bill Clinton advisor Naomi Wolf warns of totalitarianism because of pandemic emergency rules.
It's really interesting because Naomi Wolf voted for Joe Biden, then came out later saying if I had known he was in favor of lockdowns, I wouldn't have done it.
The dude was screaming high heavens he was in favor of lockdowns.
luke rudkowski
He was the plexiglass president.
tim pool
Yeah, literally.
luke rudkowski
That was what he was named after.
So it was surprising to see this kind of tweet.
It did go viral because it did garner a lot of attention.
But, you know, there's a lot of things we could criticize them.
But this is a moment where she's finally coming out and actually speaking some bigger truths out there.
She was just on Tucker Carlson, and some of the points she's making are right on the head.
And I have to agree with her when she says that lockdowns are, as the Mexican president said, tools of totalitarians.
tim pool
What I find interesting about this is One, I will always give credit where credit is due.
Calling out totalitarianism and the lockdowns and all that stuff is a good thing.
But I do have to at least have some critical view.
I mean, does she really care or is she just making money off of anti-establishment sentiment?
When it was Trump in office, Trump was bad.
And then immediately the day after they call it for Biden, she goes, oh, oh, oh, oh, Biden is bad too!
Oh, yeah.
Like, the reason I bring this up is because, Luke, you made that point about strippers.
That, you know, the people who trust politicians are the same people who think that strippers like them.
Is Naomi Wolf just another one of these personalities who's going to try and say whatever she has to say?
luke rudkowski
I would I would contest that from my own personal experiences understanding that the anti-establishment
Dollar is not really a high dollar. It's not really valued a lot and now the the establishment dollar
Which means talking about their narratives and their talking points that pays a lot that has a lot of gigs
so I think she's actually putting a lot on the line by criticizing biden because she's one of the few that
actually does and there's Not many other people like her and I don't think I honestly
mike cernovich
think she didn't know the um, my wife's
Parents my in-laws I guess you call them then because they're from iran cnn has actually good reputation internationally
The the biggest problem cnn isn't domestic. It's internationally people actually believe that stuff and it
really is harming the country and the country's interests So they don't know they'll come over and bring up things
and we're like, yeah, you know that this thing happened I have no idea that it happened. So I do believe people
like naomi wolf are so secluded That she didn't know.
I mean, something came out too, Robbie, so I've tweeted it out.
I think SkepticMag did the survey.
But if you ask most Biden voters, how many unarmed black men do you think are killed a year by police, they're gonna say a thousand.
tim pool
Yeah, I think we actually have this.
luke rudkowski
There's a story you tweeted about that.
tim pool
Zach Goldberg tweeted about it.
Interestingly, there's this graph.
I also posted on Instagram.
They asked people in 2019 what percentage of people killed by police were black.
Very liberal people said 60%.
They thought 60% of the people killed by police were black.
Conservatives said 37.
The real number, 23.
Even conservatives were overestimating.
But the crazy thing you're referencing is, in one of the graphs, if you ask a very liberal person how many black men were killed by cops in 2019, 31% of very liberals will say about 1,000.
30% will say about 100.
And then among conservatives, 46% say about 10, 40% say about 100.
I think the real number was 27.
mike cernovich
And that's where, you know, this is probably where the mindset work comes in is a lot of persuasion or mindset is meeting people where they are.
So I know that if I'm talking to a Biden person like Naomi Wolf, I'm meeting her where she is, which she believes that literally there's a thousand unarmed black people being killed and that's why they're so Because I'd be freaking out, too.
If there were a thousand unarmed black people being killed a year in the country, I would be marching with them, too.
Right.
I would be right there.
But when you actually look at it, you're like, well, I mean, it's 19 to 25.
Twice as many white people are actually killed.
Nobody knows their names.
There was actually a bit of that in the hoax movie, was ask how many people name one white guy who was killed.
The best I can do is I think it was in San Bernardino.
A homeless guy got beat to death and you could see the pictures of his face swollen up.
But that's the closest that I can come.
to finding the name right even though numerically you we should know at least as many but we really don't so when you look at the numbers You have a different perspective on how things are going, so you have to meet people where they are, and this is what they believe.
tim pool
So this could just be Naomi Wolf getting the red pill.
Basically, she's been eating up mainstream media trash, and then something happened after the 7th where she saw some news that she trusted and said, wait a minute, what?
And she finally woke up to what was really going on.
luke rudkowski
Well, she's been anti-establishment for a while.
She also said a lot of supportive things for the Second Amendment and told people to reconsider their thoughts on the left about Being able to defend yourself and bear arms.
I interviewed her before.
So there is a shifting, but I think again, we have to stop thinking between the left and the right.
We have to start thinking establishment versus anti-establishment.
And overall, I think she's been on the anti-establishment trend.
And I think she'd be someone interesting to talk to about this specific issue.
To get into her mind and understand where she came from and what changes her opinion.
ian crossland
You just said it's anti-establishment to support the Second Amendment.
The most established document in the United States somehow is anti-establishment.
tim pool
That's true.
ian crossland
That's insane.
tim pool
That's a real problem.
Every one of these politicians are doing everything in their power to destroy it because it constrains them.
ian crossland
Then it sounds like they're not in our best interests.
tim pool
It's like over the past several hundred years, the people have had a giant shield, the Constitution, and every day a politician is just battering against it, trying to destroy it and justify their ability to do so.
If we don't, I guess, I don't know the exact quote, if we don't defend the Constitution, then the Constitution will no longer defend us.
ian crossland
It's just like multinational corporate bribes.
Yeah.
tim pool
But in that regard, Naomi Wolf is absolutely correct about the totalitarianism, and I'm glad at least some people are waking up to it.
Joe Biden is going to be doing all of these things that they complained about with Trump.
You know, kids in cages?
Congratulations, that's all back.
It's actually back with a vengeance.
Now they've got more facilities.
Before, it was Donald Trump using what was it, the Homestead facility in southern Miami, and that was built under the Obama administration.
They complained about it.
mike cernovich
And as a lawyer, too, not to interrupt, just to chime in, under the law they actually have
to.
That was something left out of the reporting.
There was something called the Flores decision, which is that you can't keep kids and adults
together in the same facility.
So the whole thing, as you said, started with Obama because of this Ninth Circuit ruling
carried under Trump, and Biden's doing it, but it's like they're doing it.
tim pool
So Trump inherits the Homestead facility.
And the left is screaming and complaining.
He's got kids in cages.
And they kept accidentally posting photos of Obama-era stuff.
But Joe Biden just opened a new one, didn't he?
They have these new mobile units with bars on the windows.
mike cernovich
They look like an air-conditioning overflow facility.
tim pool
Migrant Youth Overflow Facility.
Now, here's a funny thing.
I'm going to defend Joe Biden on this one.
When Donald Trump, under his administration, you had these kids being separated from the adults.
We don't know who their parents are.
mike cernovich
Right.
tim pool
So do you really want these kids to potentially be with strangers?
Because strangers do that.
Sometimes it's horrifying.
We want to make sure families are not separated.
But what if you have some dude who can't prove who his kid is and the kid says, that's not my dad.
So they separate the kids and then the left gets mad.
Joe Biden is doing the same thing.
The left is complaining about Joe Biden doing this now, and I'm going to say the same thing.
We can't just assume because some guy said, that's my kid.
That's true.
And we got to be careful about trafficking.
So what do we do?
unidentified
Yeah.
luke rudkowski
Being in Mexico many times, you see all these wanted posters and all these missing children posters all over the public streets.
And there's an epidemic of missing children in Mexico.
That's a lot higher than a lot of people even understand.
And covering the border crisis, specifically in Tijuana, there's been many stories of children being stolen so they could use it as a way to get across the border and to get sympathy.
And there's this fake news being spread around that if you come across the border with a child that you're going to be allowed in, allowed through, without any problems, without any questions, as long as you have a child.
There's stories like this.
It doesn't always 100% of the time happen, but it does happen and it does need to be addressed.
And sadly, the child trafficking and kidnapping in Mexico deserves to be a lot of a bigger story than it actually is.
tim pool
I guess the main issue with everything we've been talking about is people... Look, you said it was establishment versus anti-establishment?
I don't even think that's true.
I think it's people who only watch mainstream media versus people who actually think critically.
luke rudkowski
Zombies.
mike cernovich
You have to look deep, though.
Again, I have a lot of compassion for people.
Imagine if you...
Don't go into the weeds and look into everything yourself.
It's like a full-time job, practically.
That's why they attack YouTube and everything else.
The idea that you're a working mom or a working dad and you come home after a long shift and you got three hours and you hope to see your kids before they go to bed.
And you're going to say, oh, I wonder what really is going on with these overflow facilities.
Oh, there was actually a ruling called the Flores decision.
You can't have unaccompanied minors because human trafficking.
And there was a report, actually, to your point, Luke, there was actually a report that showed that hundreds of children had been human trafficked and had been let go back to their traffickers.
So this is all not conspiracy.
It's all true.
But you're just trying to get by, man.
You're just trying to live.
And that's why I I think that's because I grew up very poor.
I think that's why I loathe the media in a way that I take it personally, which is people are just trying to work, man.
People are just trying to get by.
People are trying to live the best life that they can and be moral and be compassionate and you're lying to them.
You're creating hysteria.
You're making people think that if you're a black guy and you leave your house, you might be hunted down by the police that day because thousands of people are being killed every day.
You're creating Horrible, horrible mental state for people.
And I resent that.
luke rudkowski
Trauma, fear, pain.
And once you put that in someone's mindset, once you attract them, once you make them think that they're a victim, I mean, they're going to start acting like it.
And your mindset is critically important.
That's why, you know, you wrote your book this way.
But another thing that kind of gave me hope recently, and I started my video today with this, it was a clip from the Australian Open.
And it's a clip of a lady talking about how great the vaccine is, and we're all going to go back to normal because of the vaccine, and the crowd erupted.
unidentified
Boo!
Really?
luke rudkowski
Huge boos at the Australian Open, and then she said, we want to thank our government.
Bigger boos, bigger.
I tweeted the video also.
Luke, we are changing if you want to pull it up, but the video is eye-opening and mind-boggling to see so many people during the Australian Open just absolutely Boo!
As loud as they can, this person trying to thank the government and the vaccine for bringing life back to normal.
And it was something that literally awestruck me and made me really consider, like, hey, maybe people are far more awake than we understand.
I don't know if you could play the full clip because of copyrights.
tim pool
Oh yeah, maybe not.
luke rudkowski
You should be careful with that.
But when you play the video, I mean, the boos are so loud, there's no even questioning it.
I think you can play the first 15 seconds.
unidentified
It's been a time of deep loss and extraordinary sacrifice for everyone.
And with vaccinations on the way, rolling out in many countries around the world, it's now a time for optimism and hope for the future.
luke rudkowski
Yeah.
unidentified
Wow.
luke rudkowski
It was even bigger boos when she was like, we want to thank the government.
They even went crazier.
But don't play the full clip because, you know, you've got to be careful.
But seeing that clip gave me chills because it's like, wait, wait, people are far more awake.
People are far more aware than we give them credit to.
And we're seeing a perception of reality that's catered to us by algorithms, by big tech billionaires.
And that's another perspective we need to entertain.
tim pool
You know who I think the most dangerous man right now in the country is?
Well, okay, that's hyperbolic.
I shouldn't say that.
But you know what?
You want to know who I think is one of the most dangerous people in the country?
Dr. Fauci.
mike cernovich
You know why?
tim pool
But let me tell you exactly why.
He is going out saying that even if you get the vaccine, nothing will change.
You still have to social distance.
You still have to mask.
You still can't reopen your business.
The people that are saying That the vaccine will not do anything for us are telling people not to get it.
And that's Fauci doing that.
So I talk to people and I ask my friends, are you gonna get the vaccine?
They're like, why?
What's the point?
And I'm like, what do you mean?
What's the point?
So who cares?
Fauci said nothing's going back to normal.
And I'm like, why is this guy saying these things?
He's making people not want to go and actually take care of themselves.
mike cernovich
Well, he was telling people, too, in March 2020, nobody believes me, and then I say, here's the article.
Oh, you can go on a cruise ship.
Everything's fine.
So if you look at anything that he said, the guy's kind of an idiot.
I think Jordan Schachtel or whatever.
I'm really bad with names, as you'll learn.
Actually, people thought it was a bit where I'd mispronounce names to be like Alpha.
No, I just really don't know names.
I just really am that bad.
luke rudkowski
Same.
mike cernovich
And Fauci has just fallen upward his entire government career.
He's actually not an impressive person.
When you watch him talk more than one time, beyond that, all he can do is talk in buzzwords.
Oh, you know, the world's not going to turn to normal.
Talk about math.
Talk about the numbers.
Talk about the models you gave.
He's not going to do it.
And like you said, he unintentionally presents a case against vaccinations because you're like, ah, do I really want to do this?
I was on the line.
Nothing's going to change anyway.
I'm going to keep doing it.
That's government, though.
I mean, the lesson of Corona, honestly, man, was, you know, you watch those movies, Independence Day, the world rallies together, competent people rise up.
You have a kind of a solution to things.
Our technocrats are just idiots.
They're just not even competent at being technocrats.
And Fauci's a great example.
That's who we'd be ruled by.
I'd rather be ruled by Biden, to be honest, than Fauci, if I had to choose.
tim pool
Yeah.
luke rudkowski
Well, he keeps contradicting himself.
Even recently with the mask thing, he said, there's no evidence that you should wear two masks.
Now he says you should wear two masks.
unidentified
Hold on.
tim pool
The first thing he said was, it's just common sense that two masks would be better.
luke rudkowski
Yeah.
tim pool
Then he came out later and said, well, there's nothing saying that two masks would be better.
Then he came out again saying two masks are better, and then the CDC issued a guideline saying wear two masks.
luke rudkowski
Yeah, he also said that the vaccines will be available for everyone by April.
He now changed that to June.
He was telling everyone not to wear masks.
He was talking about airborne transmissions.
He was talking about so many things that he was absolutely wrong on, and yet he's still being played by Brad Pitt.
He's still being portrayed as some kind of religious god figure to some people.
I mean, the worship of this man is absolutely sickening.
mike cernovich
They have to, though, which is, to your point earlier, The propaganda wouldn't be necessary if they were winning.
It's just so unbelievable.
These people are so dumb.
tim pool
Think about how crazy it is that Fauci literally came out and said... Fauci said this.
Don't wear a mask.
He said, no, you don't need a mask.
You don't need to go do that.
And then he came out later saying, oh, you gotta wear a mask.
Then he came out saying, wear two, then don't wear two, then wear two.
Now the CDC says wear two.
Wouldn't any regular person, like you described, Mike, who just wants to go home, spend some time with their kids, eventually be like, I can't take it anymore.
You can't tell me what is going on or why, and you keep changing everything.
At a certain point, you'd be like, there's no way you expect me to do both.
mike cernovich
Over 30 people are.
So that's the divide I notice, is there's an outdoor gym.
Because Orange County is pretty much life as normal where I live.
Because the sheriff's like, we're not gonna ticket people and arrest people for, you know, Governor Newsom.
Sorry, not gonna do it.
So we have an outdoor gym.
And the boomers rarely wear their masks, except you have to when you check in and you check out.
The under 30 people, in between their little sets, they're wearing their masks.
So the majority of the people, especially if you're not even red-blue, but just the majority of the people are done with it.
Majority of the people are, what do I gotta do?
Okay, do I gotta wear a mask to check in?
I'm gonna check in.
But they don't actually respect fallacy.
But you go to LA, you go to these deep blue areas, 30-year-old people, they're actually enforcing Imagine being a 30-year-old man, and you're yelling at someone to wear a mask.
tim pool
Or you're wearing a mask, and then you lift your mask up, take a bite of a cheeseburger, and then pull the mask down while you chew, and you're getting food bits all over your mask like some kind of moron.
That's insane to me that they're doing that.
ian crossland
You see evidence that COVID exists in ice cream and just let it go right past you because of your cognitive dissonance.
Like, it's in the food supply.
tim pool
Get over it.
My point about Fauci is that I don't expect the average person to do all the research that I do every day.
They're not researchers.
They're plumbers.
They're custodians, or carpenters, or computer technicians, or managers, or car salesmen, whatever.
I work all day reading this stuff, so I know.
And then many people come to this show to try and get a critical assessment because that's not their job.
I wouldn't think I could go on the internet and learn how to be a plumber.
I can try and do a tutorial.
I'm gonna hire a plumber, to be honest.
I need the expert to do it.
So what I'm saying is, there are people who could, you could turn the TV on, and you have Anderson Cooper sitting there with his glasses, and he's like, Dr. Fauci, you say don't wear a mask, and Fauci goes, don't wear a mask, don't wear a mask, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, that was crazy.
You need to.
Then he comes out later saying to wear a mask.
Then he comes out saying to, then don't wear to, then wear to, then the CDC says wear to.
Wouldn't a regular person at some point just be like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do anymore because they keep changing what I'm supposed to do?
mike cernovich
I think that's where they are though.
I guess that's what I've observed is that that's where the average kind of regular person is.
And it's only the people who live in these information silos, the woke kids in Brooklyn.
Because again, just as a meta point is, I remember when you're a 30 year old man, if you'd have told me to wear a mask, and I was probably more liberal when I was 30, I would say, what are you doing?
Like, do I have to do it?
I guess I will because you got to do what you got to do.
Me being a man and yelling at another man when you're walking outside, walking your dog, you need to wear a mask, is another bigger problem.
But if you look at just public sentiment, public sentiment is where you is.
People are kind of tired of it.
tim pool
Have you seen that video where there's a woman, she's in a store, and there's a guy basically harassing her?
And it reveals everything when he goes, does anybody else think it's messed up that she doesn't have to wear a mask but we do?
Now you know what the guy was really mad about.
He's mad that they got their boot on his neck, and he can't do anything about it, so he harasses some five foot tall woman who's not wearing a mask.
mike cernovich
Yeah, crabs in a bucket.
Crabs in a bucket mindset.
They don't want to do it, but everybody has to do it.
They're gonna do it.
But yeah, sentiment's changed, man.
People are mad.
That's why they're doing more and more of suppressing information.
That's why people like the New York Times, unfettered conversations are happening.
This is bad.
You shouldn't have to scold people.
If your message is credible, because most people can kind of observe the world.
Like, even if you work, and you work hard, and people tell you, okay, man-made global warming is caused by carbon emissions, and you're like, okay.
But wait, but you're flying a private jet.
You have yachts.
tim pool
Buying beachfront property.
mike cernovich
You're buying beachfront property, but wait a minute, you're going to be underwater here in Martha's Vineyard, and you just spent $15 million on your home.
So there's such a disconnect between the messaging from the ruling elite, and how they actually live their lives, that more and more people are frustrated.
tim pool
Do you think these regular people who are kind of just like getting shocked out of the system because the media is full of it, do you think they're going to reject all this wokeness?
Because it kind of feels like it's just sweeping over everything, the critical theory and all that stuff.
mike cernovich
Well that's why they're again trying to push it in an educational thing.
That's why the media is pushing it so hard and having their little purges because You know, because we read media, even though we read it critically, we're gaslit.
We're still victims.
Because we still think this is overrepresented, because that's what we look at all day, even to say, like, this is wrong.
We're still, like, gaslit.
So, for example, if you read the internet, I'm a pretty, like, hated guy, right?
tim pool
Oh yeah.
mike cernovich
I get recognized almost every day, even in these little smaller areas, and it's always positive.
Even if it's negative, a guy just kind of, like, laughs.
Nobody actually really thinks I'm a scary person.
People would be like, oh, Cernovich, ugh.
You know, kind of like one of those things.
But on the internet, I'm like a very scary guy.
But that's gaslighting.
That's not how people actually think.
In microcosm, that's the same thing with the macrocosm.
People are like, this is a lie.
tim pool
One of my favorite things is how if you, right now, state... You've tweeted before you're in favor of universal health care, right?
mike cernovich
Yeah, yeah.
Pretty, you know... People are like, oh, Andrew Yang, universal income.
I'm like, well, you can read a political article about me in 2017 where I was talking about universal basic income and my problem with that more was like the incentives it creates versus the idea That I think it's good to give poor people money, but that's far right.
tim pool
You can come out and publicly state ten left-wing positions, and then criticize critical race theory, and what will happen is on Wikipedia, people will say, hey, Mike Cernovich has a whole bunch of left-wing populist positions, and they'll say, well, he's not a good source, you can't use him as a reference, is there a credible article?
And then you will tweet, critical race theory is a bad thing.
And they will use it and say, well he said it, so it's what he believes, we better include it, he's a far-right, alt-right, whatever.
What you say only matters if it's bad for you, if you're saying things against the cathedral.
mike cernovich
Well yeah, what the cathedral does though is, that again though is part of the gaslighting.
So the gaslighting is that, if you're me and you believed the internet because you read the news, even though you know the news is a lie, you'd be like, oh man, people don't really like me.
And then you're like, where are these people?
You know, literally, where are these people?
I've walked down Manhattan.
Never had... I've been in the most populous, like, lefty areas.
And I get the El Chapo kind of irony, bro.
Like, who you throwing a bitch?
Or something like that.
Nobody's like, oh my god, that's a scary person.
Because the idea when they carcature in the media, which is so funny, is if I were a scary person, you would not write about me, right?
You don't see these people, these woke boys in Brooklyn, writing about actually scary people, like prison gangs.
tim pool
They're not writing about Charlie Hebdo.
mike cernovich
Yeah, exactly.
They're not writing about Charlie Hebdo.
They're not even writing about, like, even these people who are like, oh yeah, there's all these, you know, racists everywhere.
Then go write about the Aryan Brotherhood.
Go knock on the door.
tim pool
MS-13.
mike cernovich
Yeah, go write about MS-13.
So if they were actually afraid, then they wouldn't even write about it.
So that, again, translates to everything, which is...
the media they they lie so much that even when you're criticizing them you
still have a form of a victimization of your mind because you're like oh yeah
this is predominant opinion
no this is that this is a new prominent left wing of the critical race theory
unidentified
is not a prominent left wing I went to Portland I was actually kinda worried when I went to Portland
tim pool
because I've been to Berkeley. Berkeley where Berkeley was kind of creepy, but I walked around with Berkeley with no problems at all.
Although someone did try starting a fight with me at a skate park, which was crazy, and then some other didn't intervene.
But I went to Portland.
Portland is like Antifa Central.
And I was worried.
I was like, I'm gonna get some- someone's gonna yell at me.
And guess what happened?
So this guy starts walking up to me, and I'm like, oh man.
Oh, here we go.
And he walks up and he goes, oh, Tim Pool, nice to meet you, man.
And shakes my hand and he's like, big fan.
I love what you do.
And I was like, I appreciate it.
And I was like, is that like, you think a lot of people in Portland feel that way?
He's like, oh yeah, definitely.
A bunch of my friends watch your stuff.
And I was like, oh, that's really neat.
I go to a restaurant.
I'm sitting at the bar.
And I order like a spicy chicken and bacon.
I'm like, oh, I'm excited.
And the guy brings my sandwich out.
It looks amazing.
And he goes, hey, aren't you Tim Pool?
And I went, oh, I can't eat this now, this guy.
And then he was like, I'll be right back.
And I was like, oh, dude, what?
And he comes out and he gives me a free bottle of hot sauce.
He's like, dude, I love your stuff, man, it's fantastic.
And I was like, oh, wow, thank you.
And I'm like, all of these people online who say all these nasty things, where are they?
You know what it is?
It's really simple, actually.
What the internet has done, let's say every city in the country,
let's say there's 100 cities, and 60% of the people in these cities
are regular middle-of-the-road people, and then 30% are more politically active,
liberal or conservative, but still fairly normal.
And then you have one person who's crazy extremist.
That one person goes online and finds the one person in every other city and creates a network of a hundred people to harass you.
You then start feeling like there's a large group coming after you, but when you go out these places, most people are like, oh yeah, I heard about you.
Yeah, cool.
How's it going?
And it's just totally normal.
ian crossland
Do me a favor, guys.
Tweet out some love to Tim and Mike and Luke.
tim pool
I don't care.
ian crossland
I think the negativity gets shouted out because you feel it, you're angry, it's easy, you're motivated.
But the love, it's important that you send that too.
mike cernovich
I've been on ayahuasca too many times.
I've been confronted with all of the things, known and unknown, by God telling me this is what you need to work on.
So then when people on the internet are nipping at me, it doesn't...
On an emotional level, it just doesn't have any kind of impact.
tim pool
And I gotta say something too, like, there's no need to do that.
I don't check my mentions, maybe like once or twice periodically, if I tweet something and it shows me the tweet and the thing, you know, messages come in.
But I, why do I care about what like, you know, some anime cat girl on Twitter thinks about what I should do with my business?
Like this person with 14 followers who says dumb things, I'm like, you're doing great for yourself.
I think I'll take my own advice on this one.
mike cernovich
Well, what it does though is, Yeah, I guess to your point, it does gaslight you a little bit.
Oh man, there's a lot of people on the internet being mean to me.
I'm really sad.
But it's more like, wow, I'm a really hated guy.
You start to believe it, right?
Because that's all you see.
Like, wow man, people really do hate me.
That's true.
Because I'll be a shut-in where I hardly ever leave my house.
And then leave my house, people are like, Oh man, love your stuff, blah blah blah.
So it does create this kind of construct where you, because you only hear one messaging,
even though emotionally it doesn't regulate or mess with you.
tim pool
That's true though, there was a really funny moment where you retweeted something from me.
I tweeted something and it was not, I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't like super pro-Trump
or anti-Trump.
It was a political thing that was like cultural and I thought it was more like a libertarian issue.
It was something about freedom of free speech.
You retweeted it and then some lefty started responding saying like, Look at all the people who are responding to you, all of these, you know, far right, whatever.
And I was like, I said something like, uh, people retweet tweets.
Like I don't, people follow whatever they want to follow.
And they said, if you really did believe in freedom, then you would have left-wing people coming in here and commenting.
And then all of a sudden there were like 50 to a hundred responses from people who follow me saying, Oh yeah, I'm a liberal.
I follow Tim.
We just don't tweet.
We like mind our own business.
Regular people aren't trying to scream at you on the internet.
And so, what do you see online?
The lunatics.
The ones who are screaming the loudest.
And I gotta be honest, that includes each and every one of us in this room.
We are more likely to be egocentric or narcissistic than the average person.
That's a fact.
luke rudkowski
That's a good point that you're making here and I was going to add that to Ian.
Also, just like negative comments hurt you, too many good comments hurt you as well because they build up your ego and this perception and this identity that you're perfect and you have no imperfections and that everything you do, your farts smell like roses no matter what you eat, no matter how many Taco Bells you go to, it doesn't matter.
tim pool
But I think for the most part, the internet is a negative place.
luke rudkowski
Of course.
tim pool
You're not getting a lot of people saying like, dude, I really love you, you're so fantastic.
You get them sometimes.
What's the angry hate?
mike cernovich
It's the same thing though where if you go through life and you get like good service or something you rarely write like a thank-you card to the person because one of the exercises I did early on when I was an angry guy maybe I'm 19 you know you do these at-home DVD or CDs that's how you had to do it and one exercise was like a gratitude exercise so if you went to the airplane and like somebody was really nice to you you would write a letter to the manager but it was like a good letter.
tim pool
Say one good thing about Antifa.
mike cernovich
Oh, they have a lot of money.
unidentified
I don't know if that's a compliment.
mike cernovich
I will say, I'll say this actually, there was a guy, he actually went to jail, went to prison.
He attacked someone outside of one of my events in New York, and he apologized to the guy he attacked.
He still felt morally justified in what he did, and he said he didn't regret it, but it was more like, oh, I didn't realize I was hitting a civilian, you know, kind of thing.
But when I read his stuff, he wrote with a great level of sensitivity and a great level of...
Empathy.
But he just believes things about the world that aren't true.
And that's, again, where they read things on the internet, they don't actually talk.
I'm like, hey dude, you can give me a call, bro.
Like, you can give me a call and you can say, hey Mike, do you believe these things before you want to riot?
And I'll honestly tell you what I believe or what I don't believe.
So, some of them do have above average amount of literacy, above average amount of compassion, above average amount of cultural awareness, midwits.
But, you know, the thug element, you know, because if you're like white and you want to be in a gang, you join Antifa because you can kind of get away with it, right?
It's like a life hack.
Do you want to be violent?
You can join the Hells Angels, which you're actually around really tough guys and that maybe you're not tough enough to do that.
Or you can join Antifa and you have a license to beat people up and you're going to even be defended by Merrick Garland.
unidentified
There you go.
tim pool
Celebrities will endorse you and support you.
I'm partly kidding with the Antifa thing, but I've said it a couple of times because I really don't like what these people have done.
A lot of them, the violence.
But I also think it's really dangerous if we only ever go down the path of demonization.
We have to recognize these people, you know, the saying goes that the left, the right thinks the left is misguided, but the left thinks the right is evil.
And we need to make sure that there's always, I think there's always a path to redemption.
Well, I think, typically, there's a tendency towards a path to redemption.
Some people are just like, it's too far gone, and you're like, You know, I don't know what we can do for this person.
But I look at a lot of these activists, and I... I had a conversation with an Antifa guy in Berkeley.
He was screaming at, like, some right-wing dude.
And I was filming.
And then once things started to calm down, I asked him, you know, tell me what was going on, what were you saying?
He started explaining.
He's like, well, so this guy's here, and I'm saying this.
And then we started walking back down towards the park, where they were doing that rally.
And he was like, these people are all fascists, man, you gotta understand.
And I said, you think these people are all fascists?
And he's like, yes, I do.
And I said, do you think these people love the Second Amendment?
He's like, well, yeah, of course.
I was like, why do you think they love the Second Amendment?
They're always complaining about the government trying to take over.
And I was like, well, that sounds like they're scared of fascism.
And he was like, wait, what?
I mean, no, they're fascist.
And I was like, bro, I think they're as scared of fascism as you are.
And he was like, oh.
I'm like, that's that moment.
No one ever told him that.
So maybe, maybe there's a chance to like, you know, these people aren't getting real news.
Like Naomi Wolf, right?
She's getting this bad information.
And then she goes on Tucker and she's like, I can't believe how wrong I was.
And I'm like, thank you very much.
Welcome to the fight.
That's the, that's the right thing to do.
mike cernovich
Or they could go to Boeing.
They could go to Boeing's house.
There's just so many, you could go to the Raytheon CEO house.
They wouldn't even know they're... Yeah, right.
That, to me, is why all of this stuff is sort of empty, is at least when they were doing the WTO protests in Seattle, okay, you're actually fighting the system.
You're actually fighting the establishment.
I don't agree with your tactics.
I don't agree with writing.
But hey, I can actually see that.
But going to disrupt Andy Ngo's book sale, Paul Books, is to me just, okay, you're not fighting the system, bro.
unidentified
Right, right, right.
tim pool
He's just like, dude, he's the child of immigrants who wrote a book.
He's one guy.
He has no institutional power.
Well, let's do this.
Let's talk about the gaslighting.
Because we did briefly mention this, but I want to dive deeper into this story.
Because a lot of these Antifa people are motivated by fake news.
So, earlier on, we were talking about this.
We have this poll.
This is from Zach Goldberg.
He says, A recent nationally representative survey commissioned by SkepticMag asked respondents to estimate the number of unarmed blacks killed by police in 2019.
Overall, 44% of liberals guessed 1,000 or more as compared to 20% of conservatives.
This calculation is based on the crosstabs shared with me by the researcher.
This is crazy, man.
I watched a PragerU video.
And it was Wilwit.
I think it was Wilwit.
And he's at the Venice Skate Park in California, and there's three black dudes, and he asks them, how many black people do you think were killed by cops in 2019?
And one guy goes, thousands, man, thousands.
And he was like, you think thousands?
The other guy's like, yeah, probably thousands, maybe more.
And then he was like, 19.
Depending on which statistic you use.
So this SkepticMag used the higher number of 27 because they take into account more circumstances.
I think the official number of unarmed black men shot and killed is like 13.
But then when you take into consideration like maybe like chokeholds and stuff like that it goes up to about 27.
unidentified
27.
tim pool
Each and every one of those unarmed individuals who died is a nightmarish tragedy.
I don't even believe the death penalty, man.
I really don't.
I think if you've subdued someone, then we have to deal with, like, how... I don't have all the answers.
I'll just tell you this.
I think if we got someone locked in a box, and you're like, now we're gonna kill you, I think that's insane.
They're no longer a threat.
You got them locked in this prison.
So I'm opposed to that.
So if a cop comes out, and gets into a situation, and someone dies, that's a nightmare scenario.
Because we have a constitution, we have a Bill of Rights.
We're innocent until proven guilty.
But I also recognize that these cops, Aren't going out hunting people down.
Well, that's the narrative you're getting from the media.
These young people then believe it.
The craziest thing about the story, this other chart we brought up, check this out.
When they asked conservatives, what percentage of people killed by police were black, the conservatives said 37.8%.
That's, the number is actually 23%, 23.4%.
23.4% of the people who were killed by cops in 2019 were black.
The number is actually 23%, 23.4%.
23.4% of the people who were killed by cops in 2019 were black.
Even conservatives overestimate the total total number by about 50%.
So whatever is going on with the media that even conservatives are skeptical of,
they're still buying into these narratives.
mike cernovich
Well, it's visual.
It's because of visual persuasion.
A very non-political way that that survey was done is, if you pulled the American public and you said, what percentage of the population do you think is white, Hispanic, black?
Most people would say they think one in four people in America are black.
And if you ask them what percentage of the population is gay, you get something from like 5% to 25%.
And the answer is that, well, if you're doing a billboard and you have four people, you can't put four white people because that'd be racist.
So you have to put, you know, okay, we need a woman here, we need a black here, we need a gay person here, you know, we have all the representation.
And then people see that over and over and over and over again.
So that misunderstanding is the same thing with combat deaths.
If you say, hey, what percentage of combat fatalities do you think are like female versus male?
And they'll be like, well, like 25% are female or some high number.
You're like, No.
tim pool
It's like less than 1%.
mike cernovich
Yeah, yeah, it's like way, way down the list, and that's because medium is the message, visual persuasion.
Even if you're, even if, from a good point, because I believe in representation, I believe, I agree with the left in terms of representation matters.
You should have positive role models of every kind of race, religion represented, because that does matter, because kids watch that, because media is so important.
So if people grew up in the 80s and they watch action movies, they go to the gym.
It's unconscious.
Nobody's saying, hey, go look like Sylvester Stallone.
But it's there on a conscious level.
So I actually believe in representation.
But even when it's meant to be done in good faith, people then draw the wrong conclusions.
And then when it's done in bad faith, which is what the media is doing, hands up, don't shoot, all the various hoaxes, you're terrorizing.
I mean, the wild thing about it is, this is probably a weird thing that people wouldn't expect me to think, but I would say that black men are the biggest victims of the media hoaxes.
Because when I leave the house, I know as a lawyer, if I get pulled over, things get dodgy, you should be careful all the time.
I tell people that, whatever you are.
But I don't think that I'm gonna get hunted down by anyone.
I don't think that I'm gonna get hunted down by a gang of black teenagers, or the police, or anyone else.
There's a large percent of the population, there's actually somebody who worked for the NRA, a black guy, and he would say that, or African American, or POC, or whatever you're allowed to say now, he used to actually believe that white people with guns were gonna hunt him down.
What a terrible way to live, man.
tim pool
Yeah, it's scary, man.
mike cernovich
And that's because you've been gaslit.
tim pool
Well, so the crazy thing is, when I went to Sweden, there were a lot of conservative personalities talking about the migrant crime waves and things like that.
And they were showing these videos of burning cars and the most egregious stuff.
And what I discovered was, they were right.
There was a crime wave in Sweden.
The previous year, they had a total of one murder.
The next year, it went up to like 13.
For the people of the city of Malmo, that was nightmarish.
It was like, why are all these people being killed?
But for someone from Chicago, I was like, is that it?
So what happens is, people in the U.S.
hear a story.
Murders are up over 1,000%.
And if you live in Chicago, your perspective is based on the Chicago murder rate of being crazy.
Then you'd imagine your world, 1,000% increase in murder, you'd be imagining crazy insanity.
You'd be like, I'm not going to Sweden.
But you actually go there and you're like, oh, I get it.
Crime is up.
It's up quite a bit.
This has the residents scared.
But relative to where I'm from, crime is extremely and ridiculously low.
So what happens is, I think there are people who were correctly pointing out the crime waves, but basing the reality situation off of their personal experience in, say, London, where there is, like, more crime.
They then put out videos, or New York, or Chicago, or Baltimore.
And then they make it seem, because in their worldview, it is crazy to see this massive increase in murders.
For people who lived in Sweden, they were shocked by these numbers, but they're not used to it.
So their fear was legitimate.
When these people in Sweden would say, we're terrified to go outside, they mean it, but it's not the same thing.
You know, if you're not from there, you wouldn't know.
mike cernovich
Well, and a lot of that's in good faith too, which is, Why?
Like, I'll give you an example.
Like, I used to be, because I grew up in a small town, terrified of big cities, right?
I wouldn't want to go to New York and get shot.
You're going to go to Chicago to get mugged.
And then I started traveling more.
And then I would meet people from the city who were afraid of the country.
We'd be driving down.
They're like, Oh my God, country roads.
Is this going to be the Texas Chainsaw Massacre?
Is it going to be deliverance all over again?
So there, there is the other rising where, okay, I grew up in the rural area and actually it's incredibly dangerous in terms of driving, car accidents, a deer runs out.
And I'm afraid of going to Chicago to go shopping on Miracle Mile.
I'm actually safer on Miracle Mile than I am driving my car at night because some deer is not going to, you know, run out of the road.
So that's not even malicious.
But then with the media, because there's all these cognitive biases, the availability bias of the last thing you hear is what you think happens all the time.
So for example, there was that famous...
The case where the airline pilot, I think Captain Sullivan or Sully, landed in water.
And then after he landed in water, oh my God, an emergency.
We have to now have water life jackets in every kind of plane.
You're like, that happened one time in 10 years, dude.
But if you're the guy who says that happened one time in 10 years, it is what it is.
Now you're going to be massacred by the media.
Oh, you don't care if kids drown in a pool.
So that's always going to happen too.
And it happens to us even when you're trying to act in good faith and to And to tell the truth.
tim pool
I worked at O'Hare Airport and they hired a safety coordinator guy.
So they have the bag room where the conveyor belt brings all of your luggage when you drop it off.
And so I guess one day, this is what I was told, I don't know if it's true, but this is what I was told.
Somebody had something on their boot and slipped.
And so the next day I come in and they've glued this grit down to the floor, all across the floor.
And it made it a lot harder to drive across because it was super grippy material.
And it was really funny to walk over.
It was like they took sandpaper glued to the floor.
And, uh, I was like, so like one guy trips and that's their response.
Well, they don't want to be sued.
Yep.
So if one guy got hurt, the next time someone gets hurt, they're going to spend, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars.
They're like, spend a couple hundred bucks and glue the sandpaper to the floor.
So it was an overreaction, but it's also, I guess, just, we have this system built in place where nobody wants to assume any risks.
Nobody wants to recognize that sometimes accidents happen, but also some people exploit that accident for personal gain.
mike cernovich
Well, you don't want to be an adult.
That's where, you know, one of the things... I don't like how Trump handled coronavirus.
I'm not here to defend that.
But, like, one thing he said was, hey man, you know, like, people die.
It is what it is.
And the answer is yes.
I mean, a lot of people are going to die this year.
They're going to, like, die of different things.
There are trade-offs.
You can't just be like, every death is a tragedy.
I mean, it is to me.
You know, if I die, it's a tragedy to my family or friends or whatever.
But if you're in a leadership position, the answer is like, yeah, I mean, people die, dude.
Like, what are you gonna do?
You stop the world?
You shut everything down because people are gonna die?
But then if you say that, now you're a monster.
Oh, this person doesn't care about anyone.
He's killing Grandma.
tim pool
That's the scary reality of what's going on, is that everything has to be perfect all the time.
Like, I see these tweets from AOC, and she, you know, there was like some lefty who said, Uh, what did they say?
No one should ever have to live in poverty.
And it was like, someone responded, a person, there's a viral tweet, a person who was working full time should not be living in poverty.
And they responded with a snapback, no one should be living in poverty.
Poverty's relative!
Poverty 100 years ago was like people sleeping in a mud pit, and Rockefeller had garbage dental care.
Now, poor people in this country are overweight and have air conditioning and refrigerators and TVs.
Look, I'm not saying life is great for them.
I would like to see them live better.
I would like to see the standard go up, but the standard is going up.
If no one can ever live in poverty, well, I don't know what to tell you, man, because it's relative.
mike cernovich
Well, and Luke's been around, you know, like, I thought I grew up poor, and like, I, you know, I got the creds to say
I grew up poor, and then I went to Cambodia, and I was like, alright, dude.
You had a yard, bro.
You had a yard.
You didn't really grow up poor.
luke rudkowski
Yeah, I mean, traveling to places like Philippines and Africa and Somalia, it really gives you a lot of different perspectives.
tim pool
But you were also born in the Soviet Union.
luke rudkowski
Yeah, well, born in Poland.
But again, what's happening here is everything's becoming so political.
Everything's becoming this kind of emotional, manipulative mind control.
And it's being played over and over again just to make sure that we are convinced that something is happening.
When we look at the way that the media has been acting, they've been acting very, very intelligently when it comes to their propaganda.
There's a reason they repeated the George Floyd murder tape over and over and over again.
And when we talk about, you know, that particular event, whether you have questions about it or not, It brought up a lot of emotions for a lot of people that a lot of people capitalized on for their own personal political benefit.
Whether it was true or not, it didn't matter.
People saw it and got to see it all the time.
When it comes to other people, let's just say, you know, Ashley Babbitt getting killed, you don't see that footage on CNN for a particular reason.
This is why the Vietnam War...
tim pool
It was on CNN.
They paid the guy, the lefty activist, 30 grand for it.
luke rudkowski
But as far as, if you compare the footage to George Floyd, I think there's a big disparity as far as how much it's played, how it's played, and the coverage behind it, the music behind it, the zooming in on it, the face of a man dying in front of you is traumatic.
But we have to understand, these are selectively chosen to have a bigger agenda out there.
When you brought up, you know, COVID, if we treated obesity like COVID, cancer like COVID, the opioid epidemic like COVID, especially with the number of deaths, with the number of people's affected by that, my goodness, we would never get out of the door ever.
But COVID is something else that's being treated in this own special, unique way.
But obesity, depression, child suicide rates, all of those issues that are effective of the lockdowns, we're not, we can't even talk about it.
tim pool
300,000 people die per year from obesity.
We've got to lock everything down.
We've got to shut it all down.
It's 300,000 people who died.
mike cernovich
Diabetes, I mean, if you factor diabetes and heart disease in that, probably more.
I mean, if you look at it like lifestyle, well, the top 10 most prescribed pharmaceuticals, 8 out of 10 are lifestyle.
luke rudkowski
One of the most incredulous things that I saw was a Pepsi advertisement saying that your next COVID test is going to be at Walmart.
I mean, how ridiculous could it be?
There was a Pepsi advertisement that said, get your COVID test now at Walmart.
And I'm like, are you freaking kidding me?
Especially when you look at the scientific studies.
There's a meme I tweeted of this morbidly obese guy with all the KFC and all this fast food.
And the byline says, Americans be like, you have no right to go outside and endanger my health.
There's no real conversations about health.
There's no real conversations about stress, sleep, meditation, fasting, supplements, making sure you get enough exercise.
There's no conversations about that.
But there is conversations about restricting your freedoms, taking away your liberties, taking away your money, taking away your livelihood, taking away your existence for the benefit of the state.
And it's ridiculous, and it's sick, and it's two-faced, and it needs to be called out more than ever.
tim pool
Yeah.
luke rudkowski
So, thank you, Naomi Klein, for doing that.
tim pool
Let's sort of do a pretty harsh segue into this other segment that's about critical race theory and social justice stuff, but it's more about men and women and child rearing and stuff.
I normally like to make sure we keep everything in a standard through line, but this one's too interesting to pass up, because Matthew Iglesias.
So Matthew Iglesias is the co-founder of Vox.com, and he tweeted this today.
Here's a poll that could burn the discourse down.
And I don't know why he posted it, but it's family work preference based on gender and marital parental status.
And the funny thing is, I don't think there's anything necessarily definitive from it, but we do see that married mothers overwhelmingly believe, around 55%, that one parent should work full-time, and one parent should provide childcare in the home, and married fathers basically think the same thing.
But you know what's really funny about this?
Married mothers, only about 15%, think both parents should work full-time and use childcare.
Married fathers, you actually have around 25% who think both parents should be working full-time and using paid childcare.
I think it's funny that more guys think that.
And I think it's because men probably underestimate the amount of work that goes into raising kids.
So they're like, ah, my wife can work.
It's no big deal.
We'll get a child, you know, a sitter.
And the wife is like, no, no, no, you underestimate.
But interestingly, There's a poll from 2019 that Matthew also posted.
56% of women prefer working to homemaking.
I think there's interesting ramifications from this, notably that the number is actually 56 for women who prefer to work outside the home, but 75% for men.
And then 39% of women prefer being a homemaker and only 23% of men.
My question, and I want to get into the gender dynamics, especially with you here, Mike, about what you think this leads to, why it's happening.
We were talking about testosterone before, and men's testosterone levels going down, so I figured it'd be fun to talk about this.
mike cernovich
Yeah, those things, I'm surprised the numbers aren't inverse, where more people want to be stay-at-home moms.
One thing I've got with Shauna is, Shauna would be a little bit insecure
to say that she was a stay-at-home mom because she would get shamed by other women
for being a stay-at-home mom.
But why would you shame someone if you were happy?
That's where I think the numbers are probably even more skewed towards they actually don't wanna work
because think about it, if you're happy and somebody says, oh yeah, I'm doing this thing like me,
oh yeah, I like to lift weights and you tell me, oh, I like to bike,
you tell me you like to run, You like to run?
You like to bike?
And I'm like, I'm glad that everybody's really happy.
So she would feel like put on the spot.
unidentified
Right.
mike cernovich
Because there's all this like shame directed by women who are like only a stay at home mom.
I couldn't do it.
I could just, I know, I believe in mindset, your limits, blah, blah, blah.
I could not be all the time with the kids the way my wife.
tim pool
This is like the one subject that, when we talk about, triggers the most anger from leftists, and I don't... I mean, I can probably make some assumptions as to why they get so mad about it, because maybe it's what you kind of pointed out, that there's a lot of women who would rather be homemakers.
I mean, the Gallup poll says that.
Maybe there are more, but they're worried about being shunned or shamed.
mike cernovich
Well, parenting does too.
So Shauna, it's so interesting because I see things from her perspective too, is anything about parenting makes people mad.
So for example, I did a whole thread on how we did natural childbirth, and I prefaced it with, hey man, if you went to the hospital, I just hope your kids are healthy.
All love, blessings, love and light.
unidentified
How dare you!
mike cernovich
You're giving misinformation about home births and they're yelling.
So anytime you do something about parenting, you're already in the danger zone because people take it personally.
Oh, so you read to your kids three books a day.
I only read one book a day to my kid.
You're therefore saying that I'm a bad parent.
Nobody's telling you that, bro.
We're just hanging out.
So you're already in the danger zone.
And then when you talk about anything with the idea that there's a traditional gender roles might actually have a biological root to it.
Now you've doubled it, right?
Because if all you talked about was peaceful parenting, you would have people mad at you.
Well, I was spanked as a kid and I turned out good, so you're already there.
tim pool
And I'm not even saying biological component.
I'm just like, oh, look at this poll that says women prefer it more than men.
And then, man, people just light up.
mike cernovich
They're going to read that into it, though.
Oh, of course, of course.
Oh, so, because they all, you know, they're raised in like John Stewart and John.
Oh, so what you're saying is that men belong in the working and women belong in the house.
Like, bro, I never said that.
I mean, I'm just talking about an actual survey.
So I can just say that I could not, I could not be a mom.
And I, I don't have to pander to women because mine says men, all blessings to them.
tim pool
There's an article I read that really triggered the left.
And it, like, seriously did as I started writing articles about it and yelling at me and I got a bunch of people hitting me up.
Because it was about working women in their 30s who couldn't find men.
And I'm like, maybe there is something with this Gallup poll and this other discourse thing that Matthew Glacius tweeted, where if you got a guy who's in his 30s who's successful and attractive, he's not going to want to find a woman who, you know, wants to work.
He wants to find someone who can help him have a family.
luke rudkowski
There's a lot of things you can misinterpret with opinions, but one thing you can't misinterpret are the financial ramifications that cause people to have a home where both of the parents work.
It used to be that someone would have one job and they could pay for their family, they could pay for their mortgage, they could pay for the food on the table.
Now that situation is dramatically going down, especially with energy prices going up, housing prices going up.
Food prices going up this is affecting us in such a ... dramatic ways and we have to understand behind the larger ... movement especially in the early on sense of the 1900s ... there was a lot of industrialists that saw that if ... we have more taxpayers if we have more workers if we have ... more factory people if we have more employees to choose from.
Wages will naturally go down, and that's why big-time industrialists like Rockefeller were big-time proponents of movements that made women go into the workforce.
So there are natural incentives.
Sure, I don't even want to go there.
The financial incentives are something that we should be having a bigger conversation on because these are the talking points that do affect us, and we need to realize that in America, a single working family home cannot make ends meet.
One person working can't happen.
What's going to happen?
Two people are going to have to work, and they're going to have to rely on illegal labor to raise their children.
I think you're wrong.
unidentified
Why?
tim pool
Well, there's a bunch of different jobs in this country.
There's average, median income.
luke rudkowski
Very few that could survive and sustain a family.
What's the median income?
mike cernovich
I'll just tell you, man, I've been blessed in life.
It's hard out there, man.
When I go, because I don't do a lot of the shopping at the Albertsons or whatever.
You should go to Costco, buy in bulk.
I went to buy Halloween candy, and I was like, how is peanut M&M's You know, $44 or whatever.
It goes fast when you have kids.
It goes faster, like diapers and everything.
It's hard, man.
tim pool
So, there are some personalities who had kids when they were extremely young and became extremely successful.
I think that one of the issues, you've got a bunch of young men who are sitting around doing nothing.
That's one of the reasons I think Jordan Peterson became so popular is that he was trying to give young men purpose.
And I think it's one of the reasons why the far left got really mad about it.
But if you got a bunch of guys who are working maybe, you know, let's say they're working 40 hours a week.
Are they really striving and are they providing that level of demand to a boss?
Let me clarify.
Let's say you're 23 and you're working at a Best Buy or something.
You're not gonna go to your boss and put pressure on him and try and find more work because you're probably making more than enough.
You go home, you play World of Warcraft, you play Destiny, whatever video games you're into, Minecraft or whatever, film some YouTube videos maybe, and then you're done.
Let's say you're 23 and you've got a 3-year-old kid.
You're gonna go to your boss and be like, I need more money.
And he's gonna be like, we can't give you more money.
Say, okay.
Then you're gonna start looking in the classifieds.
Then you're gonna be like, I have no choice.
I have to find something bigger and better.
You literally have no choice.
I think that people are missing responsibility in their lives that would normally drive them To succeed and do better.
I'm not saying it's absolute.
I'm not saying everybody.
I'm not even saying a majority.
I'm just saying I think that is a component for a lot of people.
Because I know it is hard out there.
I know a lot of people struggle to make ends meet.
But I also know that there are a lot of people... So I knew people back where I grew up on the south side of Chicago who found a way to go from being a high school dropout to making six figures because they literally had no choice.
They had a kid when they were a teenager and they started working 80 hours a week And then every opportunity they saw they took, they pressured their bosses and they said, I got a kid.
I got to make more money.
And then by the time they were 20, they were a manager making six figures at some company.
mike cernovich
There's that.
I mean, there's, so you raised a lot of, there's so much swirl, which is the idea that a lot of reason, reasons that young men aren't driven is because the dating is a disaster.
Unless you're like a very top tier guy.
I read some statistic on how many people ever get matched on these dating apps.
So, the way the dating system has, it's actually kind of wild if you think about, if you're like a top tier guy, you can have four, they call them spinning plates, you can have four or five different girls that you're dating and they just kind of accept it like that's the way it is and you have all the leverage, and then if you're just like a guy who's maybe above average, a little bit above average, You're good luck, dude.
tim pool
Let me tell you a story.
A story and a theory.
Hypothesis.
I was talking to some 22-year-old dude on the East Coast a year or two ago.
And he was talking about how he never had a real relationship or anything like that.
And I was like, man, you're 22?
To me, that's crazy.
And I realized something.
When I was, when I was a teenager and when I was, you know, partying college years and it was just like, I drank way too much, man.
I used to drink and just party nonstop all day.
I didn't go to high school, so I was just skateboarding, playing music, being drunk, going and partying.
It was kind of wild.
But the women that I would meet, we didn't have Tinder.
We didn't, we didn't have any of these apps.
So what would happen is the women I knew in college only knew the men they met in college.
So, who are the guys in college?
Well, this chick's 19 years old.
She knows some 19-year-old guy.
He's not got anything really going for him.
He lives in a dorm.
He doesn't have a car.
But, it's who she knows.
So, she dates him.
Now he's 19.
They, you know, become college sweethearts or whatever.
Maybe they get married, maybe they don't.
There's a lot of people like that.
That's what's happening.
mike cernovich
Not anymore.
The game changed.
tim pool
That's my theory.
So I saw this guy.
Then dating apps come out.
Now, this college woman who's 19 or 20 opens up their app, and it's not just the 19-year-old guy.
This is what I said to this 22-year-old guy.
I said, I'll tell you what your problem is, and this is not absolute, I'm just saying, but I'll tell you, this is something you were really facing that I didn't face when I was younger.
I was like, look, I'm in my early 30s, I'm wealthy, successful.
I got a conversion RV van.
I can take you to an infinity pool on a roof of this luxury casino.
And when I go on these apps, how is a 19-year-old college kid gonna compete with that?
So it's really simple.
I'm not trying to impugn the honor of these young women.
It's very, very simple.
If there's a 20-year-old woman, and she swipes right on this attractive 20-year-old guy at her college, and they're messaging, and she's also messaging a 30-year-old guy, 30-year-old guy says, how would you like me to pick you up in my, you know, convertible and we'll drive to my house.
I've got an infinity pool I just built.
And the 20-year-old guy says, how would you like to come hang out at my dorm and watch movies?
And she's like, man, which one sounds like more fun?
There's more opportunity with the guy who's already established.
Dating apps have opened that up and made it much, much harder because now young men without the status and the wealth are competing against established men.
mike cernovich
Yes, and adding to that is The 30 year old guy isn't just texting one 19 year old.
So he's not just taking one off the market, which would be, you know, mathematically, it would all kind of suss out.
He's actually taken three, four or five off the market because he's making them all.
So it's the weird thing is online dating has ruined it for women because a guy can just be like, Hey dude, I need NUDESs.
And if you're like, no, it's like, okay, I'm the 35 year old guy.
I'm going to, I'm about to fly to Paris.
I'm picking out who I want to bring with me on this trip.
You're going to send them?
No.
See you later.
Going down the list of the, you have not just your 19 year old and you can't compete, but it's not just one girl has been taken off the market.
Now it's really like four or five are being taken off by the top dog.
So you have the, the, the top of the food chain kind of guys having a monopoly.
And then you have the younger guys who then just check out.
tim pool
I want to stress, too, more power to these women.
It's their choice to be with whoever they want to be with.
And I'm not saying that there's any violation of their autonomy or agency simply because they're engaged in this dating app game.
I'm just saying there is a general hypothesis I have that I think the math will pan out that young men are less likely to form bonds and relationships with women because of the competition in the market.
But then my question is, what happens when those 20-year-old guys are 30-year-old guys without any dating experience?
luke rudkowski
But also, most importantly, what's going to happen to those 19-year-old women that do become 30?
There's this weird kind of invert axis that happens, especially around the age of 30.
I mean, it's becoming later and later on, but it's not good.
It's not good for men when they're young, and it's not good for women when they're older.
So this is causing a lot of infighting that is causing a lot of relationships not to happen.
tim pool
I gotta say, too, I love, like, this always really, really pisses off the left, but I think it was OkCupid who did the study on... They would never do that again.
mike cernovich
Oh, right.
tim pool
They deleted them.
mike cernovich
Yeah.
tim pool
They deleted these studies.
It showed that... I forgot what their metrics were, but that women have maximum societal value at young ages and men have none.
And then around 28, men start going up.
It's around 22 men start going up and around 22 women, I think 22 is where their highest
point.
mike cernovich
Yeah, they peak at 22 to 25 and the man, so 25- But they flip it at like 30.
Yeah, so then a man's hitting prime time at 28 to like 36 and then the woman on the decline.
So then what happens, which Luke says, is if you're a 30 year old guy at the top of
the food chain, you're going to be like, why am I going to date a 30 year old who was dating
30 year olds when she was 19 all through that when I can be, I'm 30 years old, I'm on top
of the food chain now.
What are you going to do?
And then women get mad because they're like, well, I have a career, this and that.
And then, and that goes to the survey earlier is like one thing that really.
surprises women in a way that's unpleasant for them is most men don't care what your career is.
You know?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you can say I'm a middle-level executive at the whatever thing and if a guy's got his own thing going on he's like well that's nice I'm happy for you congratulations for your success but I don't know dude I'm trying to like take a trip you want to like get on a plane or you got to call in sick at work or you got to get vacation time or whatever.
tim pool
Yeah, so that's actually something I experienced.
I was in a relationship with a fairly prominent media individual, and it was just like, you're doing your thing that's really cool, then we're both doing our thing.
And so there was no real opportunity to actually spend time together.
It's like, if you've got your career, and your career is the most important thing, I gotta be honest, all we really did was like, sleep in the same bed.
Like, night comes, and it's like, how was your day?
That's great.
And then we didn't really do anything together.
There was no shared mission.
mike cernovich
Right.
And it can't be that way.
And I'm like what you said earlier.
If you're like 19 years old and you get to have fun, that's your life, man.
Men or women can do whatever they want to do.
The question was how mathematically that sets us out.
So then you have men kind of check out.
And then men are kind of, I don't know, man, they're kind of lame.
And then I know all these, because when you become a little bit more prominent, women will kind of start to talk to you a little bit more.
And a lot of attractive women would be like, oh man, no guys hit on me.
And I'm like, look, man, I don't know what you're trying to do here, but I'm not the guy who's going to compliment you.
And then I found out, no, no, they weren't fishing for compliments.
Men don't actually make a move.
So I would be at places and it's like junior high, you know, I'm 43.
It's like junior high all over again.
So there'll be four girls over here, women, or, you know, whatever, young women over here, four guys over here.
And they're kind of like looking and the guys don't make moves anymore either.
tim pool
They're on their app.
They're like, can I swipe?
mike cernovich
And they're like, I don't know, make a move or whatever, whereas when you were, you know, my, you know, when you were in college, your age or my age, you had to go make a move, dude.
tim pool
That's, that's the crazy thing.
I was thinking about that.
When I was, you know, like 18, 19, 20, every weekend we would be at some random house party and it was literally just dudes walking around, hey, what's up, to women and talking to them.
And then they'd feel it out and then they'd either leave or that was it.
Like, congratulations, you met someone.
Now you're going to go hang out or do something.
Now it's all, like, pre-screened on an app.
You know, Bumble, the woman who invented Bumble, becomes a billionaire where only the women can make the opening move.
Like, these apps have... You know what?
I'm not gonna say this.
I don't know what the long-term effects of this are gonna be, so I'm not here to make, like, a harsh criticism of the dating scene or the choices of men and women.
Just pointing out the differences that I've experienced and what I think might be affecting men and women at certain ages.
mike cernovich
Well, I mean, we see the results, and I'm happy to make a prediction.
The results are, if you're a guy at the top of the food chain, you're King Kong again.
You're in an aristocracy.
You have all the cards on the table.
We've returned to an aristocracy where you can live, as a man, a life that you couldn't have lived unless you were royalty in a previous time.
tim pool
I was talking to a friend about this.
I was like, I think a lot of this feminist liberation stuff and apps have been the greatest thing For like douchey alpha guys.
Oh for sure without question because now it's like They're they're going on apps, and they're swiping around literally every woman Then they're getting then they wait for the woman message them back And they just like I love these memes where like one guy will message 50 women the same thing and go oh man That's that you all saw that oops thinking it was gonna be like a blind carbon copy or something yeah, so What I've noticed from a lot of this, there's a lot of regular dudes, clueless and cut out.
And there's a lot of guys that are prominent, successful, wealthy, who are just owning the game.
mike cernovich
And they're doing it unabashedly because they're leaning into the sexual revolution too, which is okay.
There are guys who are just like, okay, I just don't do monogamy, dude.
You know, you got a problem with that?
Fine with me.
Whatever.
This is kind of the way it's going to be.
And everything is free.
Nobody's being compelled to do anything.
And so then the competition becomes less because more and more people check out.
It creates this vicious cycle.
So then you do.
The winner of all this stuff are the top 1% to 10% of men are the people who won from the dating apps.
And OKCupid showed that.
OKCupid, they had all this great... You could never do this now.
It shows how far cancel culture is.
tim pool
They deleted one on ugliness.
mike cernovich
Yep.
tim pool
Like if you're an ugly guy, you're doomed.
And they deleted it because they were like...
mike cernovich
Well, and they did one, too, where when you call somebody a douchebag, those people, the guy with the shirt off in front of the Corvette actually gets, yes, hit up more by the women.
tim pool
I remember saying that.
They said, although many women will stay in their profiles, if you're not wearing your shirt, don't bother.
They actually tend to respond more to men who are not wearing shirts.
mike cernovich
Right.
So all the empirical data show that if you're the douchebag guy, Take your shirt off, wax your car, show pictures of you by the Eiffel Tower, you're going to actually get hit up.
And if you're the respectable guy and very nice, you know, I read all the feminists lit, you're not going to get anything.
But that's, of course, why they had to delete it, because the empirical data was in direct conflict with the narrative.
tim pool
There was one they had specifically about attractiveness and what they found is men will message women similar to their own level of attractiveness, so it's a bell curve, but women overwhelmingly overvalue their attractiveness and only try going for the best of the best guys.
So it's something like, what is it?
Like 20% of the guys get 90% of the messages, right?
Something like that.
And it's all the top tier, best of the best chiseled six foot five, you know, models and shirts off.
ian crossland
Tribalism in general, you'd have a group of women and they'd all have one guy that they would use for the semen to have the children.
And that's how it went.
And now it's like, we're reverting back to that almost.
mike cernovich
We're evolving to a new version of it.
Is it evolving or devolving?
I don't know.
tim pool
I think it's a change or whatever.
mike cernovich
That's why I'm an institutionalist.
That's why I can represent John Roberts and maybe Jordan Peterson's point of view where he got in trouble with enforced monogamy because people can't have an adult conversation.
But if you don't want to be like the Middle East where one guy has five women and now four guys have nothing to do but blow
things up or get angry, get radicalized. The idea that if we want to
live in a socially cohesive stable culture,
I want people paired up. I want people having kids at an early age. I want them
thinking about the next generation.
Like I said, I'm a kucky institutionalist. I like social stability and social order. I think, you know,
probably less than Jordan Peterson does, but
tim pool
that's where Jordan Peterson got in trouble. It's called enforced monogamy.
And what happened was you had, I think, some feminist writers thought
what he was saying was you would take women and force them to be with men.
What he was saying was that just social, like, yeah, like cultural, like, hey, you should get married, you should
think about having a family.
Well, here's how it changed.
mike cernovich
When you...
I'm 43, I'm probably the oldest in the room, right?
Yeah, number one.
Okay, yeah, so enforced monogamy would just be when you were like my age, if you cheated on your girlfriend, you were like a scumbag.
You know, even your guy friends, you're not getting like high fives unless the other guy was kind of like a scumbag.
Right?
You're just like, Jesus, dude, like...
Your girlfriend's nice.
What are you doing?
That's enforced monogamy.
It isn't that you have to do it, but there's just a cultural norm.
luke rudkowski
Well, another thing we have to understand here, people not mating, people not having partners, leads to social decay, leads to crime, leads to violence, leads to radicalization, leads to, you know, again, I saw one of the stats, I forgot the exact kind of parameters of it, but it was People who don't get laid usually tend to be blowing themselves up or attacking people or to be some of the most crazy people in the world.
tim pool
I mean, that's a problem, man.
No one deserves to get laid.
Like, no woman owes any guy anything like that.
So, I don't know how you solve for that.
I'm assuming the data is probably true.
I've heard similar things, but I don't know what he's supposed to do in that regard.
mike cernovich
Well, that's the whole point.
You're not saying that you should change it or that you can change it.
It is what it is, to quote Donald Trump, which got him in a lot of trouble.
I think it's a bad situation societally, but what am I going to do?
It is what it is.
luke rudkowski
But also, let's make the point here that a lot of institutional establishment, mainstream media, Hollywood powers promote this larger message of promiscuity, of not having partners, of not having families.
There was even advertisements by the NIH in the United Kingdom telling people, do you want to have your video games or do you want to have a baby?
Do you want to have your high heels or do you want to have a baby as if having a baby is something bad and taking away from you having fun playing video games?
Are you wearing high heels or doing whatever you want to do with your life?
tim pool
It's almost like they just want you to be a kid.
They don't want you to grow up, you know?
mike cernovich
Did you post that meme earlier?
The high heels and lipstick?
Okay, because I saw that and the weird thing just is like a married guy is Sex gets better when you're with the person longer because you know what boundaries are and things aren't going to go too far and everybody knows what's going on.
So I saw that and I was like, actually these women don't know that in a committed relationship they're going to have more intimacy, they're actually going to have a better time.
So the idea that you're going to have a kid and you're never going to wear lipstick and lingerie and high heels is probably the opposite.
You're more likely to do that for a guy you're with.
tim pool
I grew up with TV telling me marriage was bad and having a family was awful.
I mean, you know what show I really could never, I hated, was Married With Children?
And the reason I hated it was not because he was, you know, it was because he was a loser.
It was because he always lost.
The only episode I remember where Al Bundy actually won was when he punched a guy in the face
and then they joked that he sued him and won for hurting his fist on his face.
And it was because like the show was making a point that the system was broken.
But like I watched the show, you know, when it would come on, I was, I was young and he was always just miserable.
He hated his kids.
He hated his wife.
They hated everything.
And I was like, what is this?
This is awful.
ian crossland
We weren't allowed to watch it.
My parents wouldn't let us.
luke rudkowski
Look at the way a family is characterized in mainstream media, television, and sitcoms and movies.
Look at the way that the father is portrayed.
Look at his characters.
Look at what he stands for.
Look at how he acts.
He's a dumb, dopey, fat dope that doesn't give a damn about anything and is absolutely miserable.
So seeing that representation plays on the subconscious of so many young Americans, of so many young children, and it's the complete, utter opposite of what's happening in China.
China, huge population crisis because of their one-child policy.
They're literally building databases of fertile women inside of Beijing with millions of people.
Yes, China is building databases of how fertile women are in Beijing.
And we only know about that because that was leaked.
There's other stuff that they're doing.
I mean, they're creating machines that suck out the male energy Family-friendly show here.
I'm trying to watch my word here.
But you saw, I don't know if you guys seen this, but the Chinese machines... Reproductive matter.
Yes, yes.
They're literally building machines that suck out your reproductive matter.
They're trying to make males more masculine.
They're not allowing immigration.
They're a very nationalistic country.
Lydia looks scared there.
unidentified
I'm horrified!
luke rudkowski
But that's happening.
That's the reality of the world that we're facing.
And if you compare what if you compare what China's doing to what the West is doing, it's a completely different approach.
And one of them is going to be successful.
Another one is not.
tim pool
We got to go to Super Chats because we went a little long, but it's OK.
Make sure you go to TimCast.com.
Become a member if you haven't already, because we've got a ton of we got three full bonus episodes up just in the past week or so.
It's fantastic.
We got Sidney Watson.
We got Phoenix Ammunition.
These are the guys who said no Biden voters allowed.
You can't buy the ammo.
And we got James O'Keefe as well, so we'll have a bonus segment up later.
And if you haven't already, smash the like button, subscribe, hit the notification bell.
Let's read some Super Chats.
All right, let's see what we got.
Krasen says, saw today on UK Channel 4 News, an interview with Enrique Tarrio was aired about January 6th.
What I found interesting, though, is they clearly used a filter to make him look white to trick Brits who know nothing about Proud Boys.
Is that true?
Did you guys hear that?
unidentified
I didn't see that.
mike cernovich
I wouldn't be surprised.
tim pool
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised either.
Eric Gresham says, look into China's 100 year plan, world domination type stuff.
Yes, I was actually working on a story when I was at Vice.
We talked about this quite a bit.
Never really came to fruition, though.
Chris Clark says, there was a vault surrounded by a town.
A bunch of waiters snuck into the vault, and said they were smart enough to be the overseer, took it over, and took all the weapons.
They control the vault now, and the town, the vault, was- was Facebook?
Was- is that a Fallout reference?
I'm not entirely sure.
Payne Cabal says, welcome to the not-playing Magic Club, Tim.
I figured MTG was pay-to-win after two games the week it came out.
Yep, yep, yep.
Rag on Magic the Gathering again.
Martin Edgar says, Tim, can you clarify if Crowder made reference to the votes from the fictitious, uh, votes were for a specific party or candidate?
I don't believe so, because, uh, so here's how it works.
Crowder did this, and Voter Integrity Project did this.
You can get access to publicly available voter information, people who voted.
You cannot see who they voted for.
So what happens is they pull up this information, get a list of addresses, and then, my understanding, I could be wrong, I think Crowder loaded up these addresses into a database checking whether or not you can deliver packages to them, and found a bunch that said you can't deliver packages to them, then went and investigated and found a bunch of parking lots, and, you know, there you go.
Then he tweeted about it, and he got temporarily suspended, you know, we'll see.
William Martin says, Hey Tim, are you going to upload the podcast from last Friday in full to YouTube?
I missed that one.
It won't be on YouTube because we can't re-upload, like, because it was live.
So they go live and they get published.
The clips are up, but we will have it on TimCast.com in a free area that I think we have ready to go.
Hopefully.
I just got to get it figured out.
We do have, uh, the website's getting totally redone.
We're just getting started.
It's only been about a month.
So, uh, thank you everybody who signed up.
Did you hear about that?
No, I haven't heard about that.
He's a good guy. Mark puts up barrier from the haters, but seriously, dr
Shiva won a case against Massachusetts and got them restrained from colluding with Twitter. Did you hear about that? Is
mike cernovich
that I haven't heard about?
tim pool
Yeah, I don't know about that Matthew Lutcher says Crowder caught a very damning sound
bite of biting yesterday and shows actual proof of fraud today and
It's not actual proof.
Crowder even said that.
He said it was evidence of fake voter addresses.
Well, actually, I could be wrong.
Maybe he did say fraud.
I don't think so.
I think he was very, very specific and precise for a reason.
When you're trying to prove something definitively, you have to make sure you're choosing the right words, which is why I don't even think, I'm pretty sure Matt Brainerd has never said fraud either.
He said potentially illegal ballots.
That's a very important distinction because you're, you want the courts to take it.
And like you were saying about legitimacy, if you come in and say these wild conspiracies, they're going to throw you out back.
I don't want to do, I don't want to be involved in this.
If you're very, well, it's just potential.
Maybe you could take a look.
They might come out and say, oh, I agree.
You know?
I'm not sure what that is.
Oh, I don't know.
Twilight says, Mike, what is your opinion of Raquetta Law?
mike cernovich
I'm not sure what that is.
tim pool
Uh, I think he's referring to the YouTuber.
mike cernovich
Oh, I don't know.
tim pool
Well, there you go.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Simple answer.
Let's see.
Let's move a little bit.
Tony Boy says, What good is a referee if the opposing side and the opposing fans ignore the ruling?
SCOTUS needs to enforce the rulings and laws that have been passed.
I think you mentioned they have no ability to enforce anything.
mike cernovich
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
tim pool
So who is supposed to enforce this?
mike cernovich
Well, technically, court order is enforceable by U.S.
Marshals.
It would be enforceable as civil contempt, which would, you know, get federal, federal forces.
So the executive branch of the government would be the enforcement mechanism, which requires a soft power.
Neither power of personal sword is the way they put it.
tim pool
Philip Kedick says, Tim, they aren't cages anymore.
They're shelters.
That's right.
SortaJumpey says, Tim, check out the Orville's Majority Rule episode.
The crew discovers a planet where society is governed by up and down votes.
After enough down votes, you get a brainwipe.
Scary look at our future.
Yeah, I saw that one.
That's what I love about the Orville.
You guys, have you seen it?
Seth MacFarlane's show?
Is that they're carrying on a bit of what the Next Generation did from Star Trek.
Philosophical.
It's almost like Black Mirror in a sense where they find these different worlds and they kind of ask the question of like, what would the society be like if we did these kinds of things?
So it's, you know, it's interesting stuff.
Good fun.
Good show.
Good for the family.
Big E says the left gets mad when you separate children from strangers.
They don't know.
What a surprise.
You know?
Lanius Shrike says, if Fauci just said spend more time in the sun, everyone would benefit.
He did say that.
Dr. Fauci did tell everybody to get more sunlight, vitamin D, because it's good for you and you need it.
So, gotta be fair, gotta be fair.
Gizmo79 says, we have universal healthcare.
If an adult or child breaks their arm or has dehydration from the flu, they can go to the ER and they cannot be refused care.
mike cernovich
They can be bankrupt, man.
Come on, bro.
tim pool
Yeah, they get bankrupted.
And then they garnish your wages, you get your credit destroyed, you can't rent, you can't buy property.
You know what's really crazy about the system?
You could be paying two grand a month in New York for rent and a bank will tell you, yeah, but we're not going to give you a thousand dollar a month mortgage because we don't think you, you know, you have the credit history for it.
Like, we don't trust you.
It's like, dude, I got to pay rent either way and I'm paying twice as much.
Let me buy the house.
I think that's dumb.
unidentified
All right.
tim pool
TP says... Good initials, by the way.
Hey, I know this is super off topic, but I was wondering if you know about or could raise awareness of Bill C-21 in Canada.
Gun owners losing their rights if this bill passes.
I don't know a lot about it.
Does anybody know about that one?
No?
Everyone's shaking their head.
Sorry, guys.
I guess we're not the Oracle tonight like we usually are.
Rogue says, Tim just lightly disparaged anime cat girls and I took that personally.
JK.
Wasn't like Elon Musk posting anime cat girls or something?
Matt L says, Antifa at least does something for their side.
That's true.
unidentified
Yep.
tim pool
That's true.
So you have Antifa on the left, actually going out, throwing temper tantrums, making demands, and they're getting what they want, right?
mike cernovich
Kind of.
I think, I still, maybe I'm delusional, but I think they've done way more harm than good.
tim pool
Oh, totally.
mike cernovich
Yeah, I think they've allowed the more, everything now looks bad now because it's tied to Antifa, so I think they've done a lot more harm than good.
tim pool
Yeah.
Nick Sweeney says, What happened to the I Am A Gorilla Love Yourself shirt?
I was holding out for that one.
Also, if you guys ever do a pop culture night, you should have on the guys from Clown... You should have the guys on from ClownfishTV.
I mean, we've had Jeremy from The Quartering, so we'll have him around.
He's a cool dude.
The I Am A Girl I Love Yourself shirt is just in the works.
I guess we have like one graphic designer who, you know, works on merch for the show.
And then I had to do the Our Pillow.
So like, we have a silly version from Teespring, where it's the Revolution Fist holding a pillow, and the my is crossed out, so it says our and not my.
But we actually do have just over there behind Ian, we've got the official Our Pillow.
Oh, you can see it!
There it is!
Yeah, look at that!
lydia smith
There it is.
tim pool
That's the burlap sack full of packing peanuts, and we used paperclips to keep it shut.
Fancy.
And I am not joking.
I fully intend to buy a commercial on Fox News, and there have been movements made in that direction.
I have contacted the appropriate agencies.
They said so long as it's a real commercial, they don't care.
If I want to spend the money, then it's fine.
And we're working on putting the commercial together.
I think it'll be a whole lot of fun, and I think it'll be good for everybody.
Good for everybody.
Matt L says, what's Luke's thought on Bobby Fischer and his calls?
luke rudkowski
I'm not aware of that situation, but let me know of that situation by tweeting at me.
tim pool
Bobby Fischer, the chess player?
mike cernovich
That's who I thought, yeah, Bobby Fischer.
tim pool
I don't know what's up with these superchats.
luke rudkowski
They're very descriptive.
lydia smith
Yes, I love it.
tim pool
Kaypok says, Tim is right.
I watch my favorite YouTube channels on my TV.
I usually don't need to chime in and I don't want to engage with the haters and chat.
lydia smith
Yeah.
tim pool
Yep.
That's the gist of it.
I think a lot of people, you know.
mike cernovich
I noticed that, too.
My engagement got really low, and then when I released Hoaxed a year ago, I was like, oh man, I wonder if the film's gonna flop.
And it actually did way better than I even thought my projections were, so it's like not even a silent majority anymore.
It's like a silent 99% of people who just like your stuff and support it when it matters and don't say anything good or bad.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Track Media Only says, Time claimed a conspiracy occurred.
How many other things faked to help win?
Does it take to show another or part of the same?
So much fear of a word that when one could be true, it is dismissed.
They win by that fear.
Proof a la time.
mike cernovich
You know, can I answer that real quick, which is, if you go back to the JFK election with Richard Nixon, none of the stuff, this is again, that's a first-time voter right there, who doesn't realize, if you've read history, if you looked at Bush versus Gore, this is always going to happen, it's just shenanigans.
But the idea that it's R-I-G-G-E-D, Puts too much weight on it.
You have two people on either side, there's going to be shenanigans everywhere you look at, and that's the elections, every election.
tim pool
Even Bill Barr said there was fraud.
Just not that they've seen that could have any serious impact.
But it's true, I mean, it was Paxton, was it, in Texas, I think?
That woman got arrested and charged.
Then there was even a video that was put out by, I think, some progressives, where it was a woman who claimed to have voted for Trump twice.
mike cernovich
Yeah, and that's what frustrates me, I guess, is that somebody kind of plugged into how it really works.
Ballot harvesting was what did it, but the James O'Keefe videos, for example, ballot harvesting was being way overdone, but they were still actually real ballots.
Now, was it a nurse filling out the balance of Alzheimer's patients?
I would like to know, but guess what?
We can't know because everybody's so fixated on that one word, and you have to have that one word as the grand metanarrative for what happened, whereas instead you could say, like, well, I don't know.
Did this happen?
Let's look into that.
tim pool
Well, people were easily distracted by the sensational.
And that's what my problem was.
I was like, dude, stop talking about the fringe weirdo stuff and just talk about the Supreme Court case on the legitimacy of, you know, or the Elector's Clause.
That's your key right there, the Elector's Clause.
But instead what happens is, you know, people will scream the most crazy conspiracy about server attacks and shootouts and people prefer the, you know, the crazy, shocking conspiracy narrative because it's fun.
I guess life is boring.
ian crossland
I think you might have a stink bug on your microphone stand.
No, not on you.
On the stand, just so you know.
In case Chad starts going crazy about it.
mike cernovich
I thought I had a Mike Pence moment.
There was a fly.
tim pool
Brown Bear says, Tim, it's referencing me saying it is a standalone complex and Time Magazine saying it is not a standalone complex.
This is the funny thing.
So I have an update on that Poynter Institute calling me out or lying about me.
So for those unfamiliar, Poynter Institute essentially runs the organization that determines who is allowed to be a fact-checker on Facebook.
They created a post where they said Twitter's fact-checking system has got problems.
Why?
Because Tim Pool made a post which said the election was rigged.
That's actually not true.
The post literally says Time Magazine claimed a cabal of elites rigged the election.
I'm sorry, they didn't say it was rigged, they said it was fortified.
Quite literally, the post says it wasn't rigged.
Well, they claimed I posted the opposite, which is just factually not correct.
Then they complained that Twitter's users Noted correctly on my post.
It was not misleading because I was just being snarky and referencing a Time Magazine article.
So, another outlet recently did a update, made a correction, and I'm eternally grateful for the correction.
It was the right thing to do.
And it flipped the article, which now, they wrote the same thing Poynter did, but with this correction, it inverted the narrative.
Now they're writing about how Pointer misframed my tweet, which was accurate and their post was wrong.
And so it's weirdly criticizing Birdwatch while recognizing they were correct and it worked.
The funny thing is, I sent this to another journalist at one of these prominent fact-checking organizations.
Here's the update.
And there's a funny bit of a realization in this.
If I message one of these prominent journalists and say, hey, here's my tweet, that's not true, they'll say, screw off.
But when I showed him a screenshot that said, correction, Tim's actual tweet referenced Time Magazine, he did not say this himself, they went, oh.
You see how that works?
Simply having it in text from some other journalist, they'll blindly believe it without facts.
mike cernovich
Okay, but I'll teach you the life hack.
So the life hack is they know that their Twitter DMs aren't discoverable in a lawsuit.
So what I do is I always find out who their lawyers were on their previous... I go way out of my way to do this stuff.
So you want to paper trail them.
So anytime they do that, rather than message the reporter, message the general counsel of the media holding company that owns it.
Include the lawyer and the CC, then include the editor-in-chief, because then what will happen is if something like Covington happens and people sue, that's why CNN settled the lawsuit.
They'll go and be like, oh, look, you know, you did this to everybody.
You've done it a hundred times.
So I don't even bother with Twitter DMs.
I go right to HR.
I go right to the general counsel.
tim pool
Oh, no, I didn't DM anybody.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
The DM was to a journalist as I wasn't asking the journalist for a correction.
I was like, hey, and update it for the record.
The correction I got because I literally sent an email in much the way you described.
mike cernovich
Right, okay, gotcha.
tim pool
I was very polite and I said, you know, I appreciate your time.
I humbly request that you simply make the correction.
Thank you very much.
ian crossland
With respect.
When you're using snark in, like, tweets, how does it work?
Because if I was like, Luke Rutkowski murdered some murdered random person.
I'll pick a person and I'll say it.
Oh no, he didn't actually murder him.
He just said he didn't like him.
Right.
Would I be liable for saying that Luke murdered someone?
mike cernovich
Okay, so their quick defamation law of that would be is they look at two things in addition to tone.
They look at the form.
So it's almost impossible to defame someone on Twitter.
It has to be really specific.
And it can't just be colorful language.
It would have to be something like Luke's friend told me that he tried to stab his friend.
And that gives it a certain condition of credibility.
That's why when Elon Musk, remember he called that guy pedo guy?
unidentified
Yeah.
mike cernovich
People were surprised that that even went to trial.
Because it's like, I mean, he's on Twitter and he called someone a pedo.
That's kind of like what happens on Twitter.
But the forum changes.
But if it's in the New York Times, then that's considered a more serious forum and they have to be more careful.
But as a general rule, you never want a statement of fact versus opinion.
So, you know, you're a terrible person, it's like a moral judgment.
But if you accuse someone of a very specific crime with enough detail that it has an indicia that it would be a truthful thing that you knew about, that's when you get jammed.
tim pool
There's also really, really clever tactics that they use.
They love doing this thing where they'll name somebody and then add, like, a comma and then some descriptor that makes no sense.
So, like, uh, Mike Cernovich once went to an ice cream shop and he dropped his vanilla ice cream on the floor and a little kid slipped and fell and busted his skull open.
What they'll do is, Mike Cernovich, comma, who once took actions which resulted in busting open a child's skull, comma, was seen at the park today.
And that's the truth.
It's a statement of fact, and they're allowed to say it.
mike cernovich
Yeah, that's why they also play the association game.
So, so-and-so, comma, who's associated with, comma, who's associated with white nationalism, or whatever you want to insert.
That's what they do.
It's a very dirty game.
I call it, like, the parenthetical of death, but that's also, too, why the media has lost its soft power.
tim pool
I was talking to Will about this, so I'll ask your opinion.
If someone defames you, and it's an overt false statement of fact they won't correct, what if you just defamed them to a more extreme degree with a very serious statement of fact to force discovery?
mike cernovich
Well, yeah, you just force... So that's a tactic?
Yeah, that would be the tactic, which is let everybody go under oath.
Because I've had people... Fortunately, I've never defamed anyone.
Because the things they say that I've defamed people on, like the P-I-G-A-T-E thing, I'm like, well, why was it never issued a retraction?
Because I've actually been defamed in terms of how they described my role in a certain thing that happened on the internet, and I won't say the words to get you flagged or whatever.
But that's the idea.
The idea is if somebody says, Tempool is blank, you could just say, well, you know what, I don't know if I can sue you for this, but I'll just say something about you.
Now you go ahead and sue me, tough guy, and let's all go under oath.
tim pool
And then I'll get all your documents.
mike cernovich
And I'm glad to go under oath with you, yeah.
tim pool
So I was talking about this because the thing is, when it comes to discovery, there's a certain chain of communications that will be allowed.
If someone defames you through an editorial process, there's a lot of discovery there.
But if you just come out with no editorial process and make your statement, you know on your end you've got nothing to lose in a discovery, whereas they might actually have something more serious.
mike cernovich
Yeah, I've had people threaten me all the time.
That's one reason I live in California, it has what's called an anti-slap law, which is if they sue you and you win, they have to pay your legal fees where in other states they don't have to.
Because I'm like, look man, I say what I believe.
And if I believe something... I think the first time we talked, I'm in Berkeley, You would have been like, oh yeah, you said this thing about Black Lives Matter, and it was actually not true, and then I told you it wasn't true, and you're like, okay, am I bad, and I corrected it.
Because what I say I believe to be true, and if you tell me no, actually it's not true, and here's why it's not true, then of course I'm going to delete it and change it.
That's probably why, in a way, the media is so jarring to me, because if you're just a human being... I've even deleted things that were true that were harming a person's Google results.
tim pool
I tweeted about AOC's timeline when she was lying about what happened at the Capitol, and she lied.
Yep, she did.
And I had a HuffPost journalist DM me saying, you're wrong, you're spreading misinformation.
And so I looked into it and was like, I better take this down, you know, because, like, that's, you know, I think he's right.
And after doing a deep investigation, I followed up saying, here's the real facts.
And he was like, oh, oh, yeah, I was wrong.
Long story short, AOC claimed that she thought they got in a full hour before anyone had actually stormed any part of any building.
So you had a bunch of Trump supporters outside yelling rabble, and then she was claiming that they broke into, like, that made no sense.
Her timeline was way off.
But I digress.
mike cernovich
I try not to.
But if we're digressing, I try not to talk about her too much.
But did you see the fact check where people were quoting her saying that protest isn't supposed to be comfortable?
And then she tried to get a fact checker to say, well, AOC actually never said that, even though she said it.
luke rudkowski
Yeah.
mike cernovich
Yeah.
And some of the fact checkers that go along with that were like, oh, well, she meant something completely different.
tim pool
Let's read this big ol' super chat from JMac.
He says, I work from home and have been the primary stay-at-home parent since I left the military.
Parenting is all about teamwork, and parents should figure out what works for them.
It also helps to have a good scale of masculine and feminine traits for your kids to pick up on, even in gay couples.
Interesting.
Akipat says, Luke, you mentioned emotional manipulation via media repetition conditioning.
So true.
Much of this past year has been direct foreign media influence, namely China.
Let's not forget how this all started this time last year.
luke rudkowski
It's also pretty scary the influence that China has on not just entertainment, but the news business and how many news executives are afraid to even, you know, voice their concerns about anything China's doing.
mike cernovich
Well, it's concentration media ownership.
That's what's funny is how the right and the left have switched, where everybody, it was like a left-wing talking point, at least when I was in college, you'd buy like ad busters.
And the idea was that six media conglomerates ordered everything.
And so if you're NBC News, are you going to say anything that's going to put NBCUniversal into peril with China?
Are you going to disrupt the next Disneyland if you're downstream of ABC?
And the answer is like, of course not.
But we're all supposed to pretend.
So that's where the influence of two arises.
tim pool
All right, we got Stankly Balls says, Tim, honestly, how are the Appalachian Mountains?
How would you compare it to the Rockies besides prices and height?
It's funny how due to COVID, the new economic powerhouses are in Florida and Texas and New York and CA are broke.
Florida and Texas and New York and CA are broke.
Uh, the Appalachian Mountains are green and beautiful.
Well, not right now.
It's mostly white with snow.
Yeah, the Rockies are just rocks.
unidentified
Yep.
tim pool
It's rocks.
It's not fun.
I've driven through them many times.
I mean, it's beautiful to look at rocks, you know.
Used to go to the Rockies, you know, look at all that stuff.
It's fun.
But when you're on the East Coast, a lot of rain, a lot of trees, a lot of animals.
unidentified
Ticks.
tim pool
A lot of, yeah.
Yeah, and if you get up north, you get black flies, I guess.
Is that what they're called?
I was looking at Maine, and people are like, don't do it because you'll get bit in the summer.
It's really awful.
mike cernovich
Yeah, because you want to be by the water.
It's idyllic, and then you realize you're getting attacked by it.
tim pool
You're getting attacked by other forms of life.
Casey Finnegan says the Canadian government had a vote on whether to designate the CCP as committing genocide against the Uyghurs.
Justin Trudeau and his whole cabinet abstained from voting.
What is that?
unidentified
True.
mike cernovich
It's true, but I don't know if I don't know if there's a reason that they had to abstain, though, because it was I think it was a unanimous vote.
So that I think that's something like a parliamentary procedure that I have to look into before I had an opinion.
luke rudkowski
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
luke rudkowski
Trudeau's comments on China are very eye opening.
tim pool
Barry Kitchen says, 12 years Army Ranger vet here.
Started watching you roughly 5 months ago.
Seen you on Rogan.
Well done.
Just wanted to say much respect to you.
Greatly appreciate it.
Thank you.
Gizmo79 says, very rarely does a hospital turn ER bills to creditors.
Most are written off of their taxes.
Interesting.
I have heard that.
mike cernovich
They sell it to debt collectors on pennies on the dollar, and then the debt collectors go after people, and then maybe the debt collectors, because you're only buying it pennies on the dollar, let people go.
But there's absolutely medical bankruptcies.
A lot of this happens.
One of the leading causes of bankruptcy is medical bankruptcy.
Come on, people!
Come at me with the facts!
tim pool
Yeah, man.
That's, you know... I was thinking about... Do you remember when Occupy Wall Street did that thing where they bought up all that medical debt?
Yep.
That was cool.
And it's very simple.
They just said, give us some donations, and then... It's like for every dollar, it's like $100 of debt wiped clean.
Like, I like that idea.
I don't know if it's a long-term solution, but at least it can provide some relief to some people who are suffering, you know what I mean?
mike cernovich
Yeah, and it's a better way of using money than, you know, anything else.
So yeah, that's where I would look at practical solutions, because the only reason that I would be quote-unquote against universal healthcare is because you still have the principal agency issue where I don't believe you can justly order a doctor to perform services at certain wages and who pays for it.
So the weeds are complicated.
tim pool
The one thing we have to bring up is, like, Are we gonna be paying for people who are unhealthy?
You know, who are eating poorly, not exercising, laying around, getting sick, and then it's gonna be a burden for literally everybody.
It's a challenge because we don't want people to die, but people gotta have some responsibilities, you know?
mike cernovich
Yeah, they're kids, I mean, there's a lot, like, my solution would be kind of like, I call it cancer and kids.
So, like, if you have a sick kid, man, I don't care if you're, like, a bad parent.
It's not the kid's fault.
And then if you have some kind of unforeseen cancer or something like that, then, you know, there'd obviously be gradations.
But if you, you know, if you eat yourself into a diabetic coma, I don't know, man.
We're a different situation.
tim pool
Alright, so WP says, Mike, I listened to Guerrilla Mindset on a solo road trip in 2019.
It was eye-opening.
I was able to get my hands on Danger and Play.
What's the true story?
Was it really banned?
I didn't find it offensive.
mike cernovich
No, the book wasn't banned.
The books have a certain life cycle to them.
And when a book stops selling, I just usually pull it.
Because then you can re-release it and there's more hype behind it.
I almost pulled Guerrilla Mindset, but then it got enrolled in this great on Kindle program, so I didn't.
Just from a marketing perspective, Guerrilla Mindset lived out its life cycle.
And it did really well.
And if I pull it for a year or two, and then I re-release it, It's gonna do way more in a month than it would have done in two years.
tim pool
Yeah.
mike cernovich
And then some.
So you always want to pull things and re-release it.
Even though they're digital goods and that's counterintuitive.
tim pool
Polani Casey says, I'm a full-time ER nurse with a family of four and I'm the sole financial provider.
I did nursing school as a single mom.
I want to be a homemaker.
Feminism made me believe homemaking was less.
Say no to toxic masculinity.
mike cernovich
Wait, what was that again?
They didn't?
She likes being a homemaker?
tim pool
She wants to be a homemaker, but feminism made her believe homemaking was less.
mike cernovich
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean, like I said, I deal with that just in my own personal life, where Shauna was insecure about being a stay-at-home mom.
So I call myself a stay-at-home dad, actually.
So if you watch my streams, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm just a stay-at-home dad to try to get away from that stigma.
tim pool
We were talking about this months and months ago, and I referenced Family Guy.
Because there's an episode about this where Lois Griffin, you know, encounters some businesswoman who looks down on her because she's a homemaker.
I use pop culture references because, surprise, surprise, how many people watch Family Guy and watch his movies and understand what these references are and find it relatable?
But this is what, like, the left loves to do.
They like to use that as some sort of, like, they have this, like, pseudo-intellectual or academic nature to the way they communicate, as if it's, like, better than you.
And by all means, go for it.
I look at how Trump was able to pull off one of the greatest media manipulations I've ever seen, ordering that, you know, dry aged steak with ketchup.
Well done.
And then the media mocked and insulted him.
And it was like telling middle America, like they were mocking and insulting you as well.
So I'm like, listen, I'm here to talk to regular people who watch regular TV shows who are like, yeah, oh, I get that.
I've seen that.
If you want to come out and act high and mighty and academic, like you're smarter than everybody, you just isolate yourself.
So by all means, go ahead and do it.
mike cernovich
Yeah, I just don't watch anything.
So, but luckily I watched a lot of TV when I was younger, so I get the Family Guy references, the Married With Children kind of stuff.
tim pool
Oh, Married With Children was the worst.
You know what I really hated was Ed, Edd n Eddy.
You guys ever see that show?
It's a kid, it was a cartoon on Cartoon Network, I remember when I was a kid.
I was like, it's a show about three kids who are losers, just absolute losers, who always fail and everyone hates them.
And I was like, what an awful show.
Just like, what's with these miserable cartoons where people are just losers?
mike cernovich
And again, that's the programming though.
That's why my views on representation minorities would probably be shocking to people because there's more left wing, which representation does matter, but it works like both ways too.
You shouldn't represent men as schlubby guys get henpecked by a wife because that's sending a bad message about family too.
So yeah, but representation does matter.
luke rudkowski
At least Beavis and Butthead were content.
tim pool
We have a very important message from Dingus Malingus.
It says, Hi Tim, I'm about your age.
And when I was in high school, the messaging was that having a baby would ruin your life in order to prevent teen pregnancies.
Maybe that sentiment carried into adulthood.
I think it absolutely did.
Good point.
unidentified
Maybe it did.
mike cernovich
To me, I didn't have, my first kid was 38 and I'm like, man, I should have started earlier, man.
Why'd I take, cause I really thought like you have a kid, it ruins your life.
Like, why would I give up my freedom?
Because that's the idea is you're giving up your freedom, but you're getting love and you're giving love and you're opening up your heart and your reality is something different.
But yeah, I fell for that.
tim pool
I'll tell you this, you know, it's gonna be it's gonna be crazy is what like 50 years when you've got a bunch of these millennials who are Get getting older, you know developing dementia and other you know, cognitive cognitive decline and they've got nobody there It's what are you gonna do?
Like right right now?
It's really easy for a lot of these, you know, single Millennials to just hang out with their buddies but when you are all entering the downward, the back end of the bell curve for your life, you need someone to take care of you.
ian crossland
I think about this a lot because I don't have kids.
I'm 41.
I don't really want kids or plan on it.
And I think like Socrates didn't have kids, but he had the tribe and they supported him.
And he had like friends and like even the young, he had the kids of the Greco kids would follow him around, the 12 year olds.
And he would tell them the truth.
tim pool
Listen, all of these 80 year old millennials will vote for government assistance.
mike cernovich
Well, you'll have good home care.
You'll have enough money saved up by then.
And who knows, you might be 50.
That's the thing.
That's where, talking about the gender stuff earlier, that's where the game is rigged in favor of men.
If you're 50 and you're like, alright, I'm gonna marry a 30-year-old and I'm gonna have three kids.
ian crossland
Or an 18-year-old.
mike cernovich
Yeah, well, you know, I try to keep it a little family-friendly.
ian crossland
It's totally legal and socially acceptable for a 58-year-old to marry an 18-year-old.
tim pool
It's not socially acceptable.
mike cernovich
It's not socially acceptable.
ian crossland
If you got money, it is.
tim pool
No, it isn't.
mike cernovich
There's still a stigma.
ian crossland
It's kind of crazy, but it is.
tim pool
There's memes every single day mocking Leonardo DiCaprio for constantly dating the same woman and dumping him at the same age.
It's not socially acceptable.
mike cernovich
I'm not judgey-judgey.
I'm just saying I'm not judgey-judgey.
I'm just saying that If you're 50, I doubt you're going to want to have children with an 18-year-old.
I think you'd lose your mind.
tim pool
Yeah, I have no interest in dating an 18-year-old.
This was actually part of OkCupid's data.
They found that... I'm not going to get into the really creepy findings they published because it was nightmarishly disgusting.
But what they said was that when it comes to any man of any age, the reason why they choose 22 is not because it's the ideal age.
It's the ideal combination of maturity and youthful vigor.
There's a big difference between an 18-year-old and a 22-year-old.
Okay, okay, he would put out because the age actually goes a bit further down
Yeah, creepy, but when they were like when they would ask a guy would you date an 18 year old?
ian crossland
They'd be like oh no way because it's like it's a big difference between 18 year old and a 22 year old
Definitely just a human brain changes so much. I mean you're totally mature to 23
mike cernovich
They say is when you're like your body's fully mature well And women mature a little bit quicker than men, too.
So a 22-year-old woman, on average, is going to be—or girl, whatever you call them—is going to be more mature than a 22-year-old guy, for sure, too.
But if you're 15, 18, even 10 years, which is the gap between me and Shauna, is about as much as I could do.
tim pool
Well, with that being said, I think we will have you all smash that like button, go to TimCast.com, because in about an hour or so we'll have the bigger segment on probably one of the most important and pressing issues that has happened in the past couple of years.
I don't want to get too much into it because YouTube is insane, but Cernovich was one of the legal parties to blowing the lid on the whole Epstein case, and that's correct, right?
mike cernovich
Yeah, yeah, the law degree came in handy.
You know, a lot of things that, you know, like I could explain the institutional mindset of John Roberts, the FC thing.
tim pool
Yeah, we'll get into all that.
We're going to get into all this in a bonus segment where we're going to get pretty serious and probably a lot of like, you know, family unfriendly things to say.
So go to TimCast.com, become a member.
That should be up hopefully in about an hour or so.
Make sure you smash that like button.
You can follow me on all social media at TimCast.
You can check out my other YouTube channels, YouTube.com slash Timcast and YouTube.com slash Timcast News.
This show is live Monday to Friday at 8 p.m., so make sure you like, share, subscribe, tell all your friends about it.
Mike, is there anything you wanted to mention?
mike cernovich
Well, you know, Buy Guerrilla Mindset is actually a great mindset book, and I wouldn't have to pull some kind of marketing gimmick and re-release it, you know?
Yeah, and they have a gorilla here.
It's a great looking gorilla.
tim pool
And we should bundle the I am a gorilla t-shirt.
mike cernovich
If you look at the magazine, we're proud of the book cover.
Shauna designed it, so you're actually supporting stay-at-home moms, you're supporting women.
It's a very feminist thing.
It's just a win all around.
luke rudkowski
You're a great marketer.
I'm also tweeting up a storm on LukeWeAreChange, and I'm pretty close to getting 700,000 YouTube subscribers, so go to youtube.com forward slash WeAreChange if you're not subscribed yet.
Even if you are subscribed, check it out because a lot of people are being unsubscribed to WeAreChange on YouTube.
I did a very informative video about reproductive rates, testosterone levels, and the depopulation that's happening on my YouTube channel today.
It's definitely interesting.
Go check it out.
WeAreChange YouTube.
ian crossland
Oh, hello.
I was just checking out Mike's book.
You can also follow me on at iancrossland.net.
You can check out all my social networks.
You can get there through there.
Hit me up on Mines and follow me on twitch.tv slash iancrossland where I will be going live to play some video games with Adam Krigler and more.
Very excited.
lydia smith
Very cool.
And I am Sour Patch Lids.
I push all the buttons in the corner and add unnecessary comments at intervals.
I am Real Sour Patch Lids on Twitter and Mines.
And I am... Oh, no, no.
I'm Real Sour Patch Lids on Instagram and Gab.
And then I'm Sour Patch Lids on Twitter and Mines.
tim pool
We will see you all over at TimCast.com for the much more serious, exclusive episode.
Thanks for hanging out.
We'll see you then.
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