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Sept. 13, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:05:36
STOP CHASING HOT GIRLS!
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Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux.
Hope you're doing well. I'm here with Christian, not his real name.
And Christian is going to tell us about the issue which I think obviously affects more than Christian.
So go ahead, friend. Hi, I'm a 24-year-old male who is temporarily committed to MGTOW until 32 years old.
My question is, how do I reconcile a desire for children once I've gained the knowledge that comes from taking, quote, the red pill?
People like Rolo Tomasi, who you've interviewed, have shown me the true nature of women, which I cannot stand.
And with the bias of the court systems and open hypergamy and radical feminism plaguing our society, how does a man find a good woman?
Since I've forgotten these relationships, I've been far more successful, happier, and educated.
And the problem...
Despite planning to maximize my sexual market value until 32, I don't think that even then I will have many prospects because of all the women I have met I have really no long-term desire for.
Right. So, just out of curiosity, what was the nature of femininity that you were exposed to that led you down this path to begin with?
Yeah, I think the thing that really annoys me is that I think it's not more annoying, I think it's more respect, you know, in business or in, you know, personal relationships and stuff, you know, you have to have respect for other people.
And with, at least with romantic relationships, I just, it doesn't The way that we've learned from the female psychology and stuff, like I've talked about, that's just one example, Rolo Tomasi, who you've interviewed.
I just don't respect it, and I can't, even as hard as I try to make myself respect it.
Okay, that's very, very general, and these kinds of conversations work better if it's specific, personal, and empirical, if that makes sense.
So there must have been something that led you down this road into looking into this question.
That's what I'm asking about. Oh, okay.
I see what you're saying. Sure. So, I mean, I guess there was one relationship in particular that I had that ended really poorly, and it It kind of rocked my world, and that's one of the ways I found you, and I found philosophy.
And I think maybe the open hypergamy is one of the...
All right, so we're back to abstractions again, which we'll get to.
I need to know where the abstractions are coming from.
So what happened with your relationship that ended badly?
Sure, yeah. I had a relationship that I was in for...
It was only for four months, which was shorter than a lot of my relationships have been in the past, but it was one of the most intense.
I would say that really the thing that really triggered all of this stuff was some extreme selfishness on this person's part that I was seeing.
For instance, You know, um, things like paying for things, you know, um, you know, as you know, oh, the man's always supposed to pay or, uh, stuff like that.
And even if you bring it up, you know, like, Hey, what if we split this one after you've been dating somebody for months?
Uh, she would just lose her mind about it and get really angry.
That's, that's one example.
Uh, another example would be, uh, Never, I mean, no, I'm a musician, and I have concerts and stuff that I do, and she never ever came to a single one of them, just out of, I guess, selfishness.
I'm not really sure. But those are two specific examples of what led me down this road.
Right. Now, as a musician, I assume your hearing is good, right?
Yeah. Okay.
Please, my friend, start hearing my questions.
Because, again, you're going back to general principles.
I asked what happened in the relationship, like around the breakup in particular.
Okay. So, yeah.
There were several actual, several breakups, but I would say the first one, probably, I'm thinking here, the first time was around Thanksgiving.
Not this most recent Thanksgiving.
It was well back, several years ago.
But... She had gone to her best friend's house over Thanksgiving, but it was a guy, and I didn't like it.
I was pretty passive and maybe cucked is the word.
I didn't like it, and she threw a big fit about that, about me giving her not even that much grief about, like, why are you going to this guy's house in another state?
For Thanksgiving. You know, that's a little suspicious.
Not a male relative, of course, just some dude.
No, yeah, just some friend.
Was he an ex? No, he was not an ex, but she later admitted that she had been friends with benefits with him in high school, which is basically an ex, I guess.
Yeah, that's an ex.
Sure. And that was later after the breakup had really happened, but It was that one night, and she was on antidepressants that I didn't like, which is a whole other topic.
And, you know, you can't even complain about those without sending her off.
And I remember one night we were texting, and I don't even remember what set it off.
But I said something, and she blew up.
And it was something very minor, because that happened quite frequently, you know.
One little thing would explode.
Into like a multiple days long of getting ignored and stuff.
And she broke up with me that night.
And I was like, okay.
And I was really mad.
And I had already been getting upset over time like that.
And that was the first time we'd really like broken up.
Like she at least said that, you know, there's getting ignored and there's actually I'm breaking up with you.
Somebody's saying that. And so I downloaded an online dating app and had gone and talked to a bunch of girls that night because I was like, I'm done with this.
I'm just moving on. And a sort of little Rach and Ross friend scenario happened from that TV show, if you've ever seen that.
You were on a break!
Yeah, we were on a break, yeah.
Hey man, something just happened to your audio.
It got real tinny. Did you change something?
No, I didn't. Does it still sound good?
Yeah, that's better. Yeah, go ahead.
Okay, I'm wearing a headset, so maybe the microphone got away.
But, yeah, we were on a break scenario, except we weren't on a break.
You said you're breaking up with me.
And then the next day, she just messaged me out of the blue, like, Nothing had happened.
Hey, how's it going? And I was like, that's not going to fly.
No, we're talking about this.
Because at that point, I was really angry and I had gotten several messages from several women in just like two hours on the app or whatever.
And so, you know, I guess maybe my confidence was boosted.
And we had talked and...
I had told her that I downloaded that app and that I didn't need that from her.
Her, you know, just threatening to break up with me or I'm going to break up with you whenever there's an argument over something little and how dumb that is.
And she got very angry at that.
Oh my gosh. Like calling me every name in the book and very abusive verbally, you know.
And I just kind of took it all.
And, you know...
Bowed down. Oh, I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry for doing that.
It's my fault. How could I have done that?
You're right. All that sort of stuff.
Wait, that was you or her?
That was me. Yeah, at the time.
Yeah, so she brought you into compliance.
Sure, yeah.
And then from there on, it was just guilt trip for like a whole month after that.
It was just every single day was like I'm getting beat over the head with that.
And I'm believing it, you know, that it's my fault.
That there was something wrong with me for doing that, which now I know that it wasn't.
I mean, but you were being nasty, right?
I mean, telling a girl where the relationship's really on the rocks, telling a girl you've downloaded an app and are communicating with other girls.
I mean, if she'd done that to you, you would consider that to be very mean, right? - Shh.
I think I would...
I don't know if I would...
Yeah, I mean, I guess I would consider it mean.
Well, you didn't like it when she was going to hang out with some ex, right?
So she's not going to like it when you download an app and start texting other girls, right?
Sure. But I think the one point of difference is that the app was downloaded when we were not dating.
And the next day she had tried to...
So you had officially broken up.
She had said that she had dumped me.
Okay, so, but then why would you want to rub it in her face, right?
That you've got these other girls?
Yeah, sure, I guess you're right.
You know, because if you're broken up, right?
I guess emotions, you know?
And you're devaluing her by basically saying, listen, we'll get into her mistakes and her lustiness, which is definitely there.
But you're basically saying, hey man, I can replace you like that.
Yeah, you're right. And I mean, I guess...
And those kinds of games, you know, she's dragging you down to that level, assuming you're not that way normally.
Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
I think I've got enough, but if there's anything else you wanted to mention about the breakup.
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just emotions ruling over reason, which isn't always...
No, no, not emotions, man.
Come on. Come on.
She was pretty, right? She was really pretty.
Yeah. Okay, so, come on.
You've got to be frank with yourself and with me, right?
You've listened to the show for a while, so you should already know.
Sure. So you picked a garbage woman, right?
Or rather, your dick picked a garbage woman, right?
Sure, I did. Yeah, at the time, I thought...
You did? No, hang on. No, listen.
I've been listening. Okay, so just listen for a sec, all right?
Let me finish a thought or two, and then you can chime in, right?
So you picked a garbage woman.
And listen, this is not any kind of female hatred.
There are wonderful women. There are garbage men.
But you picked a garbage woman. Unstable, manipulative, untrustworthy, false...
Abusive. I mean, you just picked a garbage woman, right?
And you picked her because she was cute.
Because she was pretty. Because she was sexy, right?
Yeah. Okay, so you take what you want and you pay for it.
If you're only choosing a woman because she's pretty and then you complain that women are shallow, you are missing the point completely.
Sure. You picked her for no other reason than physical attractiveness.
In fact, there were considerable signals that she was a crazy person and a nasty person But you pick a woman for the shallowest conceivable reasons, and then you say there's a problem with female nature.
Come on, man.
You've got to be kidding me.
Sure, at the time.
At the time. I totally agree with you.
What do you mean? I'm not sure what you say, at the time.
Yeah, at the time. Is this a time-dependent situation, like it's not going to be true tomorrow?
No, I mean, I think I've changed a lot since then, and...
I've grown a lot and read a lot and learned a lot.
No, I don't think you have, to be frank, right?
Because you didn't sit to me and say, hey man, I made a classic mistake.
I chose a hot, crazy woman because she was sexy.
And I got myself into all of the predictable trouble that happens when you pick a hot, crazy woman because she's sexy.
You say, I'm MGTOW because female nature is corrupt, and this is all the bad things she did, and I was justified.
You understand? Yeah, I do understand what you're saying.
I mean, if you reach into fire and then you say, fire is evil because it burns me, that's another way of looking at it, that's all I'm saying.
Oh yeah, I see your point. It's a really good point.
Okay, so the way to reframe that in your mind, right?
Because right now you're externalizing your terrible decision and blaming all women for your dick, right?
Sure. Not fair.
Not fair. Come on.
Come on. You know all these women, you've probably known women you've wanted to date, but they've gone for the bad boys instead, and you're like, oh my god, I can't believe these women go for these bad boys.
That's so terrible, right? Yeah, and then I had learned to sort of be that.
But you did the same thing. You just did the same damn thing.
You went for the bad girl because you got your juices flowing.
For sure. And then you're somehow blaming women for your bad choice.
Why are all women responsible for you choosing a hot mess?
I mean, maybe your mom's a hot mess.
Maybe there's something. We can talk about that.
But rationally, you can't blame all women or blame female nature for where immature penis lust led you.
Oh, absolutely. Okay, good.
Because you weren't at all talking about that when we were first talking, and that's why I sort of wanted to point it out.
Yeah, you're right. And listen, I understand, like man to man.
Yeah. That's how we're wired.
I'm not like, oh, you're a bad guy.
I'm just like, honestly, that's the way things happen, right?
Yeah, that's a really insightful point, I think.
Because, you know, the question is, do you trust women?
And the answer is right now, no, and you're grabbing for ideological reasons as to not trust women.
But what you need to do is cock-block your own teenage lust and choose a woman of quality rather than a woman of mere hotness, right?
In other words, you need to be K-selected rather than R-selected for those who've been following the Gene Wars presentations, right?
You need to choose quality over curves.
Yeah. Because if you can trust yourself, and I know that's why you're calling, because you're saying, how can I find a good woman?
So you don't believe this is female nature.
Saying this woman represents female nature is like saying that the Westboro Baptist Church represents Christianity.
Sure, yeah. I wouldn't be calling in and trying to find out these answers if I think it was doomed and all were like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I mean, look, the quality of femininity, just as the quality of masculinity, has taken a little bit of a dive lately.
And, of course, the risks of getting it wrong.
You know, this was bad.
It was only four months. You weren't married, right?
She's not going to drag you to court for the next five or ten years.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid.
Right, right.
Right. Okay, so this is not all women.
Yes. And, you know, I'm glad I'm not dating at the moment.
I'm glad I'm not dating at the moment because there's a lot of crazy people out there.
But there's also a lot of, you know, just as you're looking for a good woman, there's a good woman looking for a good man, right?
And then you date this hot mess, and the good woman is like, oh my god, men just think with their dicks, and they just follow tits and ass, and they don't care.
That's what I was doing.
And, you know, men are all just terrible.
And I'm going to talk to some woman named Rolanda Tomasi or something like that.
Right?
I mean, because women get really frustrated watching.
Because the women who are not attracted to women can look and see a hot mess from a mile away.
And they see all these guys swarming her, you know, like moths around a tennis light.
Right?
I mean, they can see all these men swarming her.
And they're just screaming silently or maybe not so silently.
They're screaming, what the hell are you guys doing?
Yeah, she's cute, but she's insane.
screen.
Yeah. And they're very frustrated, because the men are all running after these hot masses, and the good women sit home alone.
That's a good point.
I never thought of it in the reverse that way, you know, because the guys see the bad boy...
But I guess it does go the other way, too.
It's the same thing, man. It's the same thing.
I just want to reiterate this point, because this is learning to see things from a woman's standpoint, right?
Can you imagine? Look, there are women.
I assume you're an attractive guy, right?
Because you're getting pings on dating apps, and the hot mess wants to date you.
So you're a good-looking guy, would you say?
Yeah, I would say so.
Okay, so you're a good-looking guy, you're a smart guy, you're verbally acute, you're whatever, right?
So I guarantee you, there have been dozens and dozens of women who've had real crushes on you, man.
Real crushes on you.
And they're good women.
Dependable, solid, smart, good conversationalists, hard workers, supportive, ambitious, like you name it, good women.
And you haven't given them the time of day.
And you know what they do is they get really, really frustrated, right?
And they say, men...
A kind of crappy, man.
Men are kind of crappy. All they do is follow tits and ass.
They don't care about the quality of a woman.
And then those men sit there and whine and complain that they get treated badly when everyone can see these red flags a mile off.
It's like if you paint the wall of China red, you can see it from space.
Yeah. And, you know, these are as red flags as you're going to find in Tiananmen Square, right?
And so, you know, and maybe women or friends have warned you about this.
Like, oh man, she's not the right woman.
Look at all these red flags. And you're like, but vagina!
Yeah. But pretty vagina.
But expert shelling.
Casing is pretty.
Fertility markers. Nipples.
Right? I mean, and you just throw yourself into this completely predictable disaster.
And all the women who really want to date you are sitting there punching pillows.
Like, what the hell? Why is it that men just go for these garbage women?
Because TNA, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And also, a quality woman, if you tell her the story, will be like, well, that's nice.
Bye-bye. For sure.
Because you're playing, like, maybe you're not this kind of game player.
I don't think you are. My guess is you're not.
But you're like, okay, fine.
You're breaking up with me?
I'm going on Tinder.
I'm going to find some women.
And then it's like she calls you the next day as if nothing happened.
And rather than say, listen, no, you broke up with me.
If you were serious about that, let's respect that.
And if you weren't serious about that, then you're a manipulative hellhole of a human being who bullies enormously to get her way.
So, sorry, you can't fire me.
I quit, right? Yeah.
Yeah. But you didn't do that.
You're like, oh yeah, well I went on Tinder and I found all these great girls and they want to have sex with me, so...
Right? Come on.
That's not who you want to be in the world, right?
Yeah, it's not... And listen, when you're with a dysfunctional person, you can't lift them up.
All that will happen is they will drag you down, for the most part.
I mean, there's rare exceptions and all that, but oh man, no, no, no.
If you're with really empty, manipulative, vacuous, vacant people, they will drag you right down to their level and beat you with experience.
Yeah, I think that's true.
I think that also goes if you're that person...
Which I think I may have been also.
I don't know. What do you mean?
Which person? I mean, I think maybe she might not have been the only bad person in that scenario, which is why I turned to philosophy after that.
Yeah, you got that this was a bad road, right?
Yeah. And this kind of shit ends with stalking, it ends with date rape accusations, it ends with alimony and child support, and oops, pregnancies.
This is like you really are playing with some very explosive dice here, right?
For sure. Yeah, she gets real mad at you, and suddenly she runs to the cops.
All it takes is one crazy friend to talk her into it.
Yeah. So, yeah, don't be doing that.
And here's the thing, too.
If you're only dating a woman because of her looks, she will have nothing but contempt for you.
Of course. Because you don't care about her as a human being.
You don't even like her as a human being.
You just like that she has a misfiring brain that can give you access to DNA, right?
That's a funny way to put it.
We're mammals, you know, philosophers, right?
Sure, yeah. I'm only laughing because...
I can't believe how obvious it is and that I have not seen that.
Well, that's what I call it, and I'm still going to work it until people get the phrase out.
I call it being dicknapped.
It's like being kidnapped, but you're dicknapped.
You're just taken hostage by your penis and whatever.
She obviously had some physical...
Maybe you're an ass man, maybe you're a tit man, maybe you're a leg man, maybe you're a whatever man, right?
And she just had those attributes, and nature is just like, fine, I don't care.
Let's shut down the higher faculties.
We'll go with the gonads and just reproduce, spray and pray, man.
Yeah. And that used to be...
So the way that we used to short-circuit being dicknapped is you'd have to wait to get married to have sex.
And when you're sitting down there for a lifelong commitment, well, you're going to evaluate the girl a hell of a lot more carefully than you are if you're just banging her in a fling, right?
Sure.
So if the woman were to say, okay, listen, man, you've got to marry me before we make out.
Like, not even make love.
Before you make out, you've got to marry me.
And what would you say to this woman on antidepressants who wants to hang out with an ex for a weekend?
See ya.
Yeah, you'd be like, you know, hey, you know, you're hot, but man, I'm not.
So what you have to do is you have to date or evaluate a woman saying, would I put a ring on this?
That's how you battle.
The dicknapping is the short-term reproductive spray and pray.
The case selection is, will she be a good mom, a great friend, a boon companion into my old age?
Will she support me if and when I get sick?
Will I want to support her? Is she got qualities of character?
And what happens when kids, gravity, and time wrecks that beautiful stained glass of hotness that she currently possesses?
Yeah. Because you're evaluating for the long term then, right?
And you're just evaluating for the short term.
Now, evaluating for the short term is just about dick and balls.
Evaluating for the long time is about mind and character.
Yeah, that's a good point.
So give me the red flags.
And listen, hotness is a red flag.
It's not a decisive flag.
It's not a decisive flag, but power corrupts.
And hotness, combined with a polygamous or serial monogamy culture, is of grave danger.
Because a woman's hotness, if she uses it to snag a man and then she's monogamous, her hotness has a power that diminishes.
It's not like the sun. It's like fireworks, right?
Just, oh, that's cool.
And then it goes out, right? Because her hotness is used to catch the man, and then her hotness is...
If she's monogamous, it's not available to other people.
You may look at her and say she's hot, but she's married and she's monogamous and she's not going to cheat and all that.
So a woman, it's supposed to be a brief little flare.
It's supposed to be just a brief whoosh, like a firework.
Catch the man, it goes out, right?
And of course, she has kids. She gets pregnant.
Her boobs droop.
Her belly stretches out. It's just sex.
It's just the way of all flesh, right?
But because we've got this carousel culture now, right?
Then what happens is the woman can keep using her hotness into her early 30s.
And that level of power corrupts people almost always.
Sexual power corrupts as much as political power.
It just generally tends to corrupt women who possess it more than men who possess it less.
And so hotness, if it's not combined with monogamy and so on, and I don't mean serial monogamy, right?
But this woman, she's got power, right?
So if she can get good attention from you, but that attention diminishes, right?
Yeah. Sexual attention diminishes.
So then she's like, oh, and this is what you talk about with monkey branching or hypergamy.
Then she's like, oh, I remember this guy from high school.
We used to bang like T-Rex drum, right?
And so I'm going to hang out with him and he's going to pay me lots of attention.
And she just gets that dopamine of male attention.
Sure. Which is supposed to be used to get a husband and then you're supposed to replace it with the dopamine of actually loving your children and being pair bonded for life.
That's how it's supposed to work. But she's like running around.
She's a junkie, right? She's a hot junkie.
Yeah. She's a male attention junkie, and I understand that.
I mean, if you think of life as a hot woman, it's crazy.
I mean, this is something a friend of mine said to me when we were teenagers.
I think we were like 15 or 16.
We were talking about men and women. And he said, listen, if you want to understand what it's like to be a woman, think of being half your size, half your strength, and you walk through life, and half the population desperately wants something from you.
We don't... You know, it's hard for us to get that, right?
Yeah. For men, I think.
Yeah. And it definitely comes later, from what I understand.
Yeah. Oh, and by then, right?
So there's a purity in a young woman's hotness, but by the man who's 30, becomes the rock star of middle age, he's kind of jaded.
Yeah. And you were heading that way, too, right?
Cynicism and being jaded and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah. Yeah.
And the point in my initial question also...
Was that, you know, you talk a lot to people who didn't realize some of the things you're talking about or didn't, you know, those traps that you were talking about, babies and STDs and all this stuff.
Yeah. I don't want to be one of those people, so I'm trying to figure out...
Well, I want to retain your capacity to love.
Yeah. Right?
And to retain your capacity to love means not blaming other people or all women for your, in hindsight, but understandably, completely obvious mistakes, right?
Absolutely. Choose a woman for her hotness, and you will have a short burst of fun and a long time of misery.
It's a drug. It's a drug.
It's a good rule to live by.
Yeah, I mean, it's like cocaine, right?
You get a big burst of dopamine and you're like thrilled and you think you're a genius and you can't sleep and you do a Robin Williams episode or something like that and then you get the crash, right?
And it's the same thing with dating a woman from hotness.
It gives you dopamine, it gives you status, it gives you a sexual high and then you really fucking pay for it.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
So, at the At this point, how does somebody go about doing that?
It seems like one of those things that's easier said than done.
Oh, no, no. It's easy to do.
I mean, honestly, it's easy to do.
I'm not saying it's easy to be happy.
It's like, how do you not be a drug addict when you don't take drugs?
That's easy to do. I mean, it's hard to maintain, but you know what to do is easy, and we'll get into that.
But my question is, who the hell, my friend, are the people around you that you ended up dating this hot, dangerous mess?
Don't tell your mom or your dad, talk to you and say, hey man, we're all tempted by that, but she's the devil's work!
Back away slowly, call a priest, like, come on.
Who in your life, I mean, did people try to talk to you about it, but you didn't listen to what happened?
Yeah, I had a few friends that were telling me to get out and that that's not good and that's not normal and stuff like that and this sort of relationship is not good.
And I didn't listen to them, you know?
And when it was really, really falling apart there at the end, I was a huge wreck.
And my dad kind of realized that there was something going wrong.
And he talked to me.
And I just kind of let it all spill out.
And he really helped me get over it and come to my senses, you know?
Okay, but why aren't your parents monitoring your dating?
And I don't mean this sort of Old Testament style, but I mean, you know, like, hey, why don't you have conversations?
Like, your parents, I assume, they're married, and so they're successful, right?
So if you were starting to run a business and your dad had been a successful entrepreneur for 30 years, you'd talk to him, right?
Sure, absolutely. So, if your parents have had a successful relationship, vet your girlfriend with your parents, or your potential girlfriend.
Have her over before you start dating.
Tell your parents everything you know.
Here are the red flags. What do you think, right?
Yeah, and the one thing about that, I do sort of avoid that stuff with them, though they are very interested in it, primarily because They are very, very, very Christian, and I am not as much as them, and that's what it always leads back to, and I don't know.
I don't know. I just don't...
Their perspective might just be, is she a good Christian girl?
That's really all they care about, yeah.
Right. Right. Right.
And I don't really...
Yeah, you could absolutely do worse.
You could do a lot worse than a nice Christian girl and probably would, right?
Yeah. Because, listen, if you end up, let's say that you meet a nice Christian girl, and let's say that you're an atheist or an agnostic, well, first of all, what matters is the values.
I used to be much more of a purist about the origins, but origins don't seem to matter that much, right?
So, atheists should disbelieve in the state, but they don't.
They believe in the state far more than Christians, and therefore they are more dangerous than Christians, right?
Now, metaphysically, epistemologically, Atheists should be anarchists, right?
Because the state doesn't exist any more than God does.
A belief in God exists. A belief in the state exists.
Churches exist. Legislative buildings exist.
But these things don't exist.
And they should accept that. But in general, not always, but in general, they don't.
Right? So, origins of beliefs don't really seem to matter that much.
And so a Christian woman is, in general, going to have better values and a deeper commitment to ethics than an atheist or agnostic woman who's most likely to be a socialist or some sort of radicalist.
Sure, absolutely.
One problem with that, though I see, is that you could argue that a truly Christian woman would not ever marry somebody who's not that Christian.
I've not, I mean, I, let's see here, how much can I talk about this?
So, when I was younger, I was interested in a Christian girl, and really liked her, and we were good friends, and she, basically, we talked about marriage and raising kids, so we never actually dated, we never kissed, but we were exploring the possibilities, because we liked each other, and she said, oh, you know, my dad's an atheist, you know, my mom, he sleeps in on Sundays, my mom takes us to church.
Okay, so I've got a problem with that.
He's a good man. Solid father, good provider.
So, I'm not saying that's necessarily common or typical, but I've certainly heard and seen that kind of stuff.
And listen, who's...
Who's to say that you can't change your mind over time?
Sure. Because if you change a woman's mind about religion, the values aren't going to just evaporate, right?
She's not going to collapse into nihilism because the values are entrenched, right?
Yeah, and I'm not... Like, if you took someone out of, oh, tennis is not a good sport, let's say they've spent 10 years playing tennis, they don't suddenly lose all their tennis skills, right?
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not even, like, anti-Christian or anything.
It's just, I don't know.
Yeah. I don't know if it's what I want to commit my whole being to being.
Well, let me ask you this.
Was your last girlfriend a Christian?
I guess not, no.
Yeah, well, you didn't even know because she was that hot.
I don't care. You can be a solitary witch.
You can be a Satanist, but, you know, with a rack like that.
My religion is rack.
I don't think any of them have ever been any of the girlfriends I've ever had, thinking back.
So all the relationships that have failed have been with non-religious women?
Yeah, I would say so, or...
They would say they're religious, but not really.
Right. Okay. So that's interesting.
And it's not a bad place to start, because you can agree on values without necessarily agreeing on the source of those values.
It's the analogy that I've had before, which is if you have a doctor who gives you the right medication for the wrong reason, that's better than a doctor who gives you the wrong medication for the right reason.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, the atheists prescribe socialism, which is the wrong solution, for, quote, the right reason.
Rational, rational.
Rationalism and all that, right?
Whereas Christians, or religious people, will give you freedom and freedom of speech in general.
And you could say, or I would probably argue metaphysically, it's for the wrong reasons, right?
Which is God said, right?
Yeah. But given that UPB has not taken the world by storm quite as yet, Christians are the people who have the best ethics in the world.
because they're universal ethics, right?
You've got Muslims and Jews and other groups.
They have in-group ethics, right?
You only have moral responsibility to people who share your existing belief system.
Christians have universal ethics, and many of them are very hard to argue with, and many of them are fully supported by UPB.
So Christians have the right medicine, and in the absence of people accepting universal ethics from philosophy, saying that there are no ethics without God in the absence of UPB, that is an entirely valid statement, because you saying that there are no ethics without God in the absence of UPB, that is an entirely Thank you.
And so, this is a conversation I had with Dennis Prager years ago, where he said, look, you can't get morals without a God, because there's no ought, there's no should in the universe.
And again, I think UPB solves that problem.
But again, it's been 10 plus years and I know that it matters for some people, but people aren't reaching for it like water in a desert, right?
For a variety of reasons that we don't have to get into here.
And it's not because I haven't worked to promote it, man.
The book's been free for well over 10 years and I've done speeches and gone to conferences and debated and done PowerPoints and you name it.
I've worked really hard to get UPB out there.
And I know it's had a big effect on some people, but...
As far as shouldering aside, religious ethics to give you philosophical ethics, no.
It's not there, and time is running out.
So Christians have the best ethics as a whole in the world, and you could do a lot worse.
Okay. All right.
Now, this doesn't mean lie, obviously, right?
Say, listen, I don't accept the existence of God.
And you can say, listen, but let's talk about what we do agree with.
You know, we do agree that morality is universal.
We do agree that integrity matters.
We do agree that telling the truth matters.
I accept thou shalt not bear false witness.
Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal.
So let's look at our areas of agreement.
And if you're the best violinist in the orchestra, does it hugely matter if you can't sight-read, if you've got a great memory and you can just memorize the music?
Well, now sight-reads.
It's like, yeah, but, you know, you still get the great effect, even without the usual force.
Yeah, you're still number one. I mean, the ideal could be a Christian girl that you help branch out into philosophy, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, did you have something?
I wanted to give a couple of tips.
No, please. I'm here to listen to you.
And is this useful so far?
Absolutely, yes. You've pointed a lot of things, and I think particularly the first part when you were a little hard on me there, as you tend to be, I appreciate that because it's some things that I had never considered.
Cruel to be kind means that I love you, babe!
So here's the tip.
You've just got to start talking to girls that you don't find super hot.
Okay. I mean, it's really that simple.
Alright. If you want to stop eating candy, you've got to start eating more vegetables because you've got to eat either way, right?
You're a young man. You want to date.
You want to have sex. You want to be in a relationship.
Hopefully you want to get married. You want to have kids.
So you've got to...
You've got to start talking to girls that you would normally not chat with.
Yeah. Or that you wouldn't be like, oh man, she's the hottest girl in the room.
I've got to have her! Sure.
Right? You've got to be soul, not mammal.
Yeah. I'm sure you can think of girls that have expressed some kind of interest in you.
Yeah, absolutely. That was this great girl in high school.
She played the cello.
She had a little t-shirt, the cello power, and she and I would chat.
Very nice girl. Very solid, sensible, good girl.
But no. No, the staff bot had to chase the hotties.
And I'm sure it was, you know, if she ever hears this, I'm sorry.
Really sorry. I made a mistake.
I made a mistake. Now, I didn't make a conscious mistake.
I was completely untutored.
No one taught me a damn thing. I was left to run wild, which means you surf the hormones until you fall off a cliff several times, bounce on your way down, and then try and reassemble yourself at the bottom.
But if I could go back in time, I'd talk to that girl.
She wasn't super hot.
Nice looking girl. I'm not talking like somebody who's obese.
Sure. Pathology and lack of self-care.
I'm not talking about somebody who doesn't bathe or whose teeth are young.
I understand. I'm not talking about basic self-care.
Go talk to the homeless woman because you're not attracted to her.
I'm not talking about that.
Go talk to the woman with neck teeth.
The girl reading the book over there that maybe isn't the most curvy.
Yeah, yeah. Or somebody who's nicely presented and so on.
She's going to know that you're appreciating her or interested in her for who she is.
Yeah. And you can help restore her faith in masculinity, right?
Just as your faith in femininity is kind of taking a blow, right?
Yeah. And that raises one question.
Only one. One question I want to ask now first.
I guess maybe a first question, not a one question.
One thing I'm hyper aware of is the legal system, and I question whether that, what you've recommended, is enough.
That's definitely enough to, I think, find the qualities that I'm looking for.
But I wonder if it's...
Enough for the legal systems and stuff because it does scare me, you know, the idea of marriage, the idea of being legally bound to somebody forever where they can, you know, take all your stuff if they wanted to.
Yeah, and that's, you know, that's one of the reasons why it's good to focus on values and quality of personality.
Because here's the thing.
I really, really want you to net this into your brain.
Because men have been really hurt by women.
And I get that, right?
I mean, you know, Bill Burr's thing, you know, the epidemic of gold, digging whores and so on, is important, right?
I mean, that's a real phenomenon.
And I'll tell you why that system exists.
Now, it's not just... Oh, women are greedy and women vote and they have power and politicians.
I mean, there's all of that. All of that is certainly part of it.
And I'm not going to again say that and say it doesn't exist.
But here's the reality.
If you divorce a woman when she's 40 or 45, you can have a second family.
But she can't. Yeah.
Your sexual market value is high.
Because you have resources.
And she probably won't have as many resources, even if she didn't sort of stay home.
So monogamy is there to help women survive the loss of fertility.
And it's there for men to ensure the offspring are his and all of that, but monogamy is there in many ways to protect women.
Now, If a man, and a man can always trade in, right?
He can trade in for a younger model, right?
A man who's 45, his wife is 45, he can sort of sit there and say, well, there's this 30-year-old who really wants kids, and I could just dump my wife and go have another set of kids, right?
Yeah.
And so women are incredibly vulnerable to divorce.
Now, we look at family courts and I get all of that.
I'm not trying to gainsay any of that.
I say that doesn't matter.
That is terrifying stuff.
But listen, divorce is terrifying for women, too.
Sure.
And the way that they've overcompensated is running to the state and saying, OK, well, I'm in fertile now.
I'm older.
Can I at least have a quarter of a million dollars?
But that's how bad it is for them, that that level of money is what they feel they need.
So what I'm saying is that a woman who gets involved with you, like you're in your 20s, right?
So she gets involved with you, and you have family, kids together.
She is also incredibly vulnerable to being divorced.
It's not just the man who's at risk.
The man's at risk for his resources.
The woman is at risk for entire sexual market value.
Now, of course, a man's sexual market value is tied up with his resources, so I get all of that.
And again, I'm not trying to say that these aren't issues and factors and I wish they were different and all of that.
I get all of that. But thinking that only the man is at risk.
So let's say, you know, the woman gets divorced when she's 45.
And the man gets divorced when he's 45.
He can, you know, still date and date younger women.
But, you know, she can't.
She can't date younger men usually.
I mean, she could be a bit of a creaky rocking horse for them to practice their sexual skills on, but it's pretty pathetic, right?
So then she's facing 40 years or 45 years of pretty crippling loneliness.
Or she kind of has to marry a guy who's way older.
I don't know if you remember, I did a video podcast many years ago called Sex for Resources, the most honest modern woman, who basically was talking about, yeah, this guy's old and he's sick, but he's got a nice house.
And I'm like, okay, so you straddle the Nazgul to get real estate, right?
But it's pretty pitiful.
So the woman also faces enormous risks.
Sure, yeah. And recognizing that it's mutually assured destruction, as far as happiness goes, means that you don't just have to sit there and say, well, the woman is gonna, you know, just take my money and run and all that, right?
I mean, okay, so if she's dumb, then she will, but if she's got a brain, which you need to marry someone who's got a brain, then she'll look at all the negative consequences and say, you know, we'll work it out.
And if you share values, right, here's the thing, right?
Just be someone who can't be upgraded.
Like, be such a great husband.
Be such a great father. Because, you know, everyone thinks when you're young, everyone thinks, oh, the love is sexual and romantic love, passionate love between a man and a woman.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
That's there. But if you really want to fall in love with someone, if you want to really fall in love with a woman, see a great mom.
For a woman to really fall in love with a husband, he has to be a great dad.
Now, once that's all the case, because you're all growing together, right?
You've got your husband and wife, you're growing together like two trees.
They start off as saplings that are separate, and they end up growing together and knitting their trunks together.
And then you've got kids that are all growing into the same scenario.
Then everyone's embedded.
And if you, you know, the woman, if she can't find a husband who's going to make her happier, and she can't find a man who's going to be a better father to her children, which, you know, you'd have to be a pretty bad father if some stranger could replace you, then you have nothing to worry about.
Sure. You have nothing to worry about.
Nothing. Okay.
I do not ever, ever think of divorce.
And my wife never thinks of divorce.
And it's not like we're gritting our teeth.
It's like, you know, for me, divorce would be like, hey, man, it's great that you run a philosophy show, but would you like a job at a pig farm?
I'm sure that... That's a fine job, but I'm not, no, no.
You know, or, hey, do you remember how when you, like, when you were 14 and you used to clean, I cleaned a doctor's office, I cleaned a travel agent, I cleaned, you know, just stores in a mall.
Yeah. And people say to me, you know, it's really nice that you can go to documentaries and have great conversations like this and change the world and influence the lives positively of millions of people, but I could totally get you that job cleaning offices again in the middle of the night.
Like, I would sit there and say, yeah, okay, let me think about it.
And that's the same thing with divorce.
Like, there's no... Everything would just be a massive downgrade.
There's no...
It just doesn't occur. Like, if somebody said to you, hey, man, a spot opened up in kindergarten, what would you say?
Yeah. I've been there, done that, and I'm too big for the...
Yeah. I'm too big for the seats and the glue taste bad.
Not Adam Sandler. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, so that, I mean, if you understand that, then you just look for the qualities of character and you say, I can't do better.
I can't do better than my wife.
Like, there's no upgrade for her.
Yeah. That doesn't mean that everyone else gets second best.
I mean, some of it's just compatibility that's outside of values and virtues, but, I mean, there's no upgrade.
Yeah. You know, you don't go to Brad Pitt and say, well, you could have the starring role, or, hear me out, you could be an extra.
You know, he's not going to be an extra.
Yeah. That's true.
So, first off, thanks for saying all that, because, again, it's very useful information.
And that leads me to another question, which is, Me foregoing relationships until I can get older and accumulate more knowledge and establish a career and stuff like that.
I'm not asking you what I should do, but I'm asking you to talk maybe about...
Does this, looking for these values that you're talking about, does this...
Okay, I know.
This is a good question. I get it.
I get it. Yeah, I don't even know how to...
Yeah, go ahead. When I say I get it, I get it.
All right. What do you want from a woman?
You want to be a dad? Yeah, I'd really love to.
Okay, so you need a woman who's going to want to stay home with your kids, right?
I assume, right?
Yeah, all of that is stuff, yeah.
Okay, so you want a woman who's going to stay home and raise your kids, right?
And you're going to be the provider, right?
Is that fair to say? Yes, yes.
Okay, so that means that you have to be really wary of women who've taken soft arts degrees or soft science degrees in college.
Okay. Right, because most likely, right, they're going to be bitter, Marxist, feminist, in debt, dangerous.
Yes, that's true.
I've seen it. And you want a woman who's smart enough to say, and this doesn't mean uneducated.
This idea that you can only be educated if you go to college is just complete garbage, right?
I mean, the whole internet is out there.
There's this show, books, almost all of the popular courses or important courses at Ivy League universities are available online.
It's like you can educate yourself way better without going to college, way better without going to college.
And you don't want somebody who's a conformist, right?
And people who go to college and just mindlessly churn their way through garbage degrees and end up in debt or whatever.
I mean, it's just not people who are thinking for themselves.
They're just people who follow a particular train track and aren't individuated.
In other words, they don't evaluate information according to their own sensible standards.
They're just like, oh, everyone goes to college?
Okay, I'm going to college.
I mean, the whole college scam is doing a hell of a good job in the long run of weeding propaganda susceptible people out of the general population because they're not going to have kids, right?
Yeah.
Or if they do, kids are going to grow up and probably hate them, right?
So it's a terrifying thing, but it's just this weird scalpel that happens and says, oh, I can convince you to not have kids.
Okay, then the easily convinced people don't have kids and don't pass on those genes for being easily convinced.
Anyway. So that's important.
You want a woman who is not...
I mean, come on.
Listen. To understand how it looks to women when you fall for TNA... When a guy shows up somewhere in a Lamborghini, what do you think?
He's trying to show off.
Douchebag, right?
Yeah. Douchebag.
Or like those middle-aged guys who, you know, get hair plugs and Corvettes and, you know, hey, there's nothing wrong with the Corvette.
I love me. I've never owned one, but I've rented once or twice when I was in the business world a convertible, and they are a lot of fun.
I love convertibles. But, you know, the cliche, the midlife crisis, right?
Yeah. So, you know, the guys who show up in the Lamborghinis or the guys who, you know, just...
They're terminally cool, right?
I mean, they're just always trying to be, you know, cool and hip and one-up.
I mean, you just look at those guys and you say, oh, douchebags, right?
And then if you look at the women who flock to those guys, right?
Then you look at those women and you say, oh, gross, right?
Yeah. So if you understand that, that a woman who flash signals her sexuality...
You know, what is it? There's an old Katy Perry video where there's fireworks coming out of her tits.
I've seen it, but I can't remember its name.
I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you know the song, right?
Yeah. And, yeah, so, I mean, that's, you know, if she's flashing cleavage, if she's heavily made up, if she's got, you know, like there's this weird thing.
I was just in a store today. There was this woman there, this young woman there with those weird leggings.
And it's like, okay, I guess nakedness is technically illegal, but this is the next best thing, right?
Yeah. Okay, so she had a nice figure and all that, but it's like, okay, that's nice to watch, but no way.
Because that's like driving up in a Lamborghini.
Yeah. How insecure do you have to be to have your butt hanging out of the tight leggings and I mean, I was in a staple store, for heaven's sakes.
You know, I mean, I was in a staple store and I thought I could roll a quarter on the floor and she could pick it up, right?
And so, you know, just women who are transparently, sexually...
Exhibiting. It's a bad idea. It's a very, very bad idea.
I mean, that's the kind of thing where you say, hey, man, you know what it's like?
It's like when you go to a museum. I love going to museums and looking at art.
It's tough to do with my daughter because she gets a little bored.
But I love going to museums and looking at art.
And you know what you do is you look at that art and you say, God, that's beautiful.
But I can't. It's way too pricey.
It's way too expensive. That's what happens when you see the TNA show, right?
Yeah. You know, the tits on the shelf and the ass like a zebra's wagon tail, right?
I mean, you look at that and you say, man, that's pretty.
But it's way too expensive.
It's way too costly for me.
That's the exact image.
That's literally verbatim what I've had in my mind for years.
About a year is that art example.
Yeah, it's pretty, but it's behind glass and an alarm's going to go off and I'm going to get arrested if I try and take it.
I mean, it's a bad idea.
Or try and buy it. And again, it's fun to see.
It's enjoyable to watch. We're men.
We're not dead. But yeah, that's pretty, but I can't afford that.
There's no way. I can't possibly afford that.
And not even like you want to, right?
It's like, no thanks, right? Yeah.
It's too stressful having that in the house.
Someone's going to steal it, right? Yeah, I'm going to have to pay some money.
You want the Mona Lisa? No. Yeah.
I really don't, right?
So, look for a woman who presents herself in a sensible fashion.
And also, just look for things like, and I've talked about this recently, so I'll just run through it here real quick, but Look for things like, she doesn't have any debt.
She's got success in something, right?
She's got success in something.
You know, maybe she's really good at drawing.
Maybe she writes great haikus.
Maybe she's got a wonderful rose garden.
Maybe she volunteers and helps people in her community.
Like, just look for some evidence of kindness and competence, right?
And to me, getting a degree these days is not an evidence of competence, but of conformity and a dangerous level of conformity, too.
And I don't mean if she's got an engineering degree or physics or something like that, but...
Just look for, and look for, and it's a funny thing to say, but, I mean, just, is she a nice person?
Is she helpful? Is she helpful?
If, you know, I mean, I've mentioned this a million times before, but, you know, my wife is like, sure, I'll pick, I had a pair of shoes downtown, I had to go down and get them instead of getting them fixed, because I'm cheap, and my wife's like, this is just when we started dating, she's like, oh, I'm downtown, I'll grab them for you.
I'm like, what? It's a dragon.
It's a trap! Right?
Just helpful, right? Sure.
Is she nice? Is she helpful? If you've got, you know, something, I don't know, you got a job interview, does she say, hey, you know, I'll help you practice?
Yeah. Just, is she a nice, helpful person?
And of course, you should be too, right?
It's not a one-way street, right? Sure, absolutely.
Absolutely. Because, you know, if you live with a nice, helpful, generous person, man, it's the most glorious thing in the universe.
I'm not kidding.
There's a second to nothing.
A nice, you know, hey, hot, you know.
Yeah, okay, that wears off pretty quickly, right?
But, you know, somebody who's just nice and helpful and all that, I mean, it's like, wow, does this ever make my life easy?
And does it ever make it fun to be generous back, right?
Yeah, I bet.
How can I help you?
You know, this is great.
This is upward, you know, sometimes like sex is like a whirlpool, like hotness is a whirlpool that goes down.
This is like something that brings you up.
Yeah.
Thank you.
A good sense of humor is very important because life is pretty hard sometimes, man.
Yeah. Life is pretty hard and you don't want someone who's going to turn on you.
Yeah. Right? You want someone who's most times going to be able to see the funny side of things.
Good point. Because, you know, life is hard and when you've got a pair-bonded, loving, monogamous, committed team, there's almost nothing that you can't do.
And if you don't have that, there's almost nothing you can get done.
Yeah. Yeah. A woman who's willing to ask you questions, who doesn't jump to conclusions.
A woman who doesn't imagine your motivations.
That's a very tiring thing to be in.
Well, you're only doing this because of blah, right?
I see this on Twitter all the time where people are divining my motivations.
Oh, this is a dark whistle for this.
Well, he's really this, and he's insecure about that.
It's like, really?
This is not discourse.
This is like projection fantasy time, right?
It's like a nightmare. Yeah, absolutely.
So if a woman doesn't understand why you're doing something, a good woman will say, hey...
Why did you do that? Oh, you did that because you just wanted to hurt me, or you did that just because you're selfish, or you did that just because that's what your mom does, or you did that because...
Like, oh my god, that's...
You cannot... If people don't care who you are, but simply want a place to dump their own destructive projections, no.
No, no, no. Never in a million years.
That is way too exhausting, and that'll just...
That'll holler you out like an apple corer.
That's a good point. Yeah, I think I've even...
I've been there with people that do that.
And thinking back, it is very exhausting.
Oh, absolutely. And it's one of these things.
There's no null hypothesis, right?
Yeah. You try to explain yourself.
Oh, now you're just trying to justify.
It's like, okay, so you have an idea of who I am, which is not who I am, and nothing I can do to change it.
So I'll just leave you with the memory of who I am, and you can just have a relationship with your projections, because I was never here anyway.
Yeah. You want a woman who can speak fairly easily about her history?
And, you know, it can be a bad history.
I mean, I have a bad history, but I can talk about it.
It doesn't rule me. It doesn't ruin me.
It doesn't own me. It doesn't control me.
So, you know, if the woman comes from a bad background, she's like, oh, yeah, you know, this is pretty bad, and this, that, and the other.
And then, of course, you need to look at the extended family, because you're not just marrying a woman, right?
You're marrying an extended family for the most part, right?
You've got to evaluate those people, too.
And she should be evaluating you as well, right?
And your family. Because a couple is not a couple.
We've got this idea, like this atomized thing, like a couple is just a couple.
It's like, nope, a couple is not just a couple.
You know, you get two tits and 23 relatives.
Yeah. And if they don't have any relatives, there's something else going on.
If the woman says, oh, you know, I put distance between myself and my family because they're pretty destructive and here's why and, you know, ask me anything you want and here's the reasons why and I've done therapy and, like, that's perfectly valid, perfectly healthy.
You can't blame someone for having been victimized in the past, right?
But they're certainly responsible for dealing with it productively in the present.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, listen, you gotta...
You know what it is?
Let me give you an analogy.
This hopefully will sink deep, right?
Have you ever seen a bullfight?
I think so.
Yeah, I think you'd remember.
Yeah. When I was, I don't know, 20 or whatever, a friend, two friends, well, one friend and his roommate who I didn't like, but anyway, we went to, gosh, where was it?
Dominican Republic, I think, or Mexico.
No, we went to Mexico, sorry, we went to Mexico.
And it's too bad, you know, because I shot all this film on this old video cassette recorder, and then the friend I didn't like...
Ran it through the x-ray coming back and it destroyed all the film.
Oh, come on. That was really...
Anyway, so we went to a bullfight.
Now, I didn't know much about bullfighting.
I mean, I'd read my Hemingway, but I didn't know much about bullfighting.
And it's horrible. You know, with all due apologies to my lovely Spanish listeners, it's pretty gross.
I mean, you know, they hold the red flag out, right?
Yeah. The bull charges it and then they just start slicing it up.
Yeah, okay. I wasn't sure.
They disassembled that bull in real time.
It's hideous.
I've seen it, yeah. Right?
Okay. So, you're the bull, and hot girls are the red flag.
And you charge, and what happens?
Your heart gets sliced. And you want to say to the bull, for God's sake, stop running at the red flag!
Every time you do, you get hacked a little bit more.
I remember seeing the shoulder spilling out, and oh, it was hideous.
And you say to the bull, stop running at the red fucking flag!
It's getting you killed.
But it can't stop itself.
Apparently, because it keeps doing it.
And that's men and sexiness.
Mere sexiness. Sexiness is the main presentation.
If a guy's a great guy, he shouldn't need the Lamborghini.
And if a woman's a great woman, she shouldn't need the overt sexual display.
Or she wouldn't, right? In fact, the overt sexual display will attract exactly the wrong kind of guys.
So when you look at that hot woman, and you want to ask her out because your balls get itchy, just think of the bullfight.
Alright. You want to charge that red flag?
There's a blade that's going to come down.
That's a really good thing to remember.
Yeah, we're not bulls, right?
We have a choice that the bulls don't have.
Yeah, yeah. And listen, I say this again with all sympathy, and I've made the same mistakes older than you, so this is no preaching from some puritanical tower here.
Like, I mean, I've been in those trenches, almost literally, I suppose.
And so I really sympathize, and I understand.
You know, you've got to grit your teeth, man.
You know, if you want to lose some weight, you've got to push back the vanilla bean cheesecake or whatever the hell cranks your tongue juices.
It's the same thing with the hotness, right?
I mean, you don't have an infinity of heart to feed into the blender of hot girls' craziness.
Yeah, that's a good point.
All right. So that's most of what I wanted to say.
Does that give you a good place to start at least?
I think it does, Stefan.
It's been very, very helpful.
And I think that'll sort of turn me off one path onto the right path.
Fantastic. Well, listen, will you let me know how it goes?
Absolutely. Oh, yeah.
I just saw your picture here on Skype.
You are a good-looking guy. So, yeah.
No, that's a challenge, too, because you'll get the hot girls chasing you for status.
All right. Keep me posted, man.
Thanks for the chat. I appreciate it. All right.
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