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Nov. 26, 2008 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
37:30
1221 Standing for the Fallen -- Guardian

One reason why I say what I say about families.

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Good afternoon, everybody. Hope you're doing well.
It's, uh, Steph. And we're going to go and pick up my car car.
The dented Von Volvo.
And, uh, I'm walking over because, uh, Christina, she is at the work.
So, I wanted to provide some fodder for those who enjoy, I don't know, psychoanalyzing me or something like that.
And talk about something that I've been mulling about, right?
I mean, I am to a fault sometimes, I think.
A fraidy cat, right?
And alert to...
Or at least I try to be attentive to problems that...
In what it is that I might be doing.
And so when...
You know, when a real shite storm hits, like the one that hit FDR since this Guardian article came out, I always want to make sure, of course, that I'm not doing something weird, right?
Not doing something...
You know, that kind of flame-out thing that happens to a lot of...
Let's just say, thought-based organizations.
Thinking, of course, of RAND, to me, is the big and hopefully the most instructive article of these mock trials that went on and so on, I didn't think was very good.
And I remember being just desolated by hearing and reading about what occurred with RAND. It's even more Of an issue, I think, when it comes to the internet than it was with, you know, those gatherings which anyone can join.
The gatherings, I think they were in New York, where this, quote, collective, which they meant, of course, in a satirical way, met and discussed stuff, and I'm sure there was wonderful stuff being discussed, but there was always a kind of humility and humanity that was missing from The Randian approach,
and I am sure, imperfectly, I have tried to keep that, or maintain that aspect of things, making fun of myself, talking about big goals, big plans, big ideas, big beliefs, and at the same time, hopefully, remaining open to criticism and correction.
So, when...
I was sort of mulling over the steps that led to this recent series of questions about what it is that I'm doing.
I, of course, wanted to spend time mulling over what are my motives, right?
I mean, I'm sure that there are lots of people out there, maybe there aren't, maybe there are, I think there probably are, those who...
Who look for motives behind what it is that I'm doing.
So they say, oh, well, you see, Steph hates his parents and therefore he wants to make other people separate from their parents.
To cling to his justification for what he did and so on.
I mean, he's drunk with power, right?
Because there's so much power in podcasting.
I used to run a company, but now I want to beg for money over the internet.
I used to make huge money, and now I am happy with a $20 donation in the morning.
So, I mean, these are all silly things, right?
I don't have a shred of evidence, right?
In fact, there's counter-evidence, right?
If I really wanted money and power, I would not go into philosophy and podcasting and giving everything away for free, obviously, right?
I had the money and power thing when I was in the business world.
I had 30 employees.
I had power over, so to speak.
And... And so, if I wanted money and power, I would have continued to grow my business career and continued to apply myself in that way.
Because that's where the real money and if you want power is, right?
And so, I guess other people say, well, you know, he wants the money and he wants the power and that's why he's doing this, right?
That's why he talks about all this psychological stuff because it gives him power over people and so on, right?
Actually, it seems to be that it gives power over...
Them going to therapy, hopefully.
But people, this is a kind of religiosity, right?
I don't know where the universe came from.
And therefore, God made it, right?
Steph is doing something bad, and this is the reason, right?
Why does Steph focus on the family and voluntarism within the family?
It must be psychological.
Now the challenge...
With psychological stuff is evidence, right?
Always, always the challenge with psychological stuff is evidence.
I did a dream analysis recently, which by listener request was Gold Plus.
I did a dream analysis where we're trying to figure out why there was a hippie in the dream.
I spent like 45 minutes trying on various possibilities, asking questions, and I couldn't impose something.
On the person who had the dream, right?
I mean, I could, but it wouldn't mean anything, right?
So, evidence, we're looking for evidence as to why there's a hippie, and why the hippie's doing what the hippie's doing, and just to take a very obtuse example, if that makes any sense, but that's the challenge of looking for evidence, right?
You know, with Tom, I mean, I don't just sort of say to people, your dad is a devil, right?
When it's established that he physically intimidates bullies and, you know, terrifies his child, and he's perfectly capable of not doing it because he never does it in a situation where he might be caught by someone in authority, and I hear the pain and, like, all this kind of stuff, right?
Look for evidence, right?
I mean, one thing that people have missed in that conversation with Tom, most people, is, you know, when Tom says, why do I have this obsession about protecting animals?
And I say, well, it could be, as a theory, because...
You have seen someone in authority brutalize animals and you associate yourself with that.
Very few people have mentioned that that was bang on.
It's magic, right?
So you have a theory, right?
When you're talking about psychological things with people, you have a theory and you try it on.
And you see if it fits emotionally and empirically and so on.
And I did hear from a third party that Tom is doing fine.
So, I just wanted to mention that, right?
And so, when people say, like people have said, Steph twists conversations into conversations about bad families, right? That is an assertion that, of course, is perfectly viable to make, right?
You make that assertion. But the challenge always remains evidence, right?
I mean, assertions without evidence are just bigotry, right?
Blacks are inferior. Jews are cheap.
That's just bigotry.
And the great challenge is proof, right?
And people love to say stuff.
And this is completely, of course, endemic to YouTube, right?
People like to say stuff.
But evidence is the challenge, right?
So people say, well, Steph twists conversations to make families look bad.
Then that's quite easy to figure out, right?
Which is you take A conversation that I've had with someone, and there are hundreds and hundreds, wherein that person is talking about Austrian economics or how to grow hibiscus and hibisci.
And you find where I barge in and over their bewildered incomprehension tell them that their family is bad and berate them and do this and do that.
Like, that's where you find evidence for that, right?
And given the number of people who, I don't know, obsessively listen to the podcast with bad intent, if that were there, there would be no shortage of examples, right?
Right?
I mean, if the best of people with ill intent, if the best that they can come up with is...
Me saying, I don't think there are any really good parents out there, in the same way there weren't any really good doctors in the 10th century, which is actually quite forgiving of parents, if you understand that with any depth of detail.
If that's the best they can come up with, that's pretty sad, right?
That's not a whole lot to hang your hat on, right?
And you may agree or may disagree about the parenting thing.
I obviously have a theory around that.
I have a theory which is that in the absence of a rational understanding of ethics, a way of inculcating virtuous behavior without reason and evidence, parents have to substitute will for Negotiation, will for debate, will for...
And that doesn't mean that they beat their children, of course, right?
But it means that they have to dance around this vacuum of why be good?
Just because, right?
Well, that's not good for kids, right?
Where did the world come from?
God made it! Well, that's not a good answer, right?
Why be good? It's culturally approved of.
You don't want to go to jail, right?
That's peer pressure. That's violence, right?
You know, threat and conformities are not a good basis for ethics.
So, I have a theory around why I don't think there are any really good parents, and I've done my best to try and make that situation better.
Thank you.
But that's not really that nutty a statement, right?
If we look at the state of the world.
And the other thing, too, is that if Libertarians genuinely believe that there are a lot of really great parents out there, then it's kind of tough to explain why libertarianism fails so spectacularly all the time, right?
Why the goal of reducing state coercion has Maybe it's not the family.
Maybe it's something else completely.
Maybe it's gamma rays.
Maybe it's fluoride.
I don't know. I think it's the family.
But if there are a lot of really great parents out there raising their children rationally and Positively and calmly and with respect and dignity and curiosity and affection, if there are lots of really great parents out there, why is the world so unfree?
The theory that people don't see the gun in the room of the state or of society because they don't see the gun in the room of the family, the coercion or violence or bullying or just kind of overbearingness, the coercion or violence or bullying or just kind of overbearingness, which I have sympathy for with Not the physical assaults or anything, but you know, they haven't been handed a whole lot of good stuff by philosophers in this regard.
But if it's not the family, great!
It must be something else pretty freaking huge though, right?
It must be something monstrously large Because a lot of really smart people have come up with a lot of stone genius ideas, most of which I could never dream of approaching, particularly in economics.
Some just seriously genius stuff has occurred, right?
Road to serfdom, the human action, Great Depression.
All of these are massive, well, not the road to serfdom, weighty, scholarly, well-written, Engaging, valid tomes.
You know, almost a hundred years, some of them.
So, if we fail so spectacularly and it's not the family, if this is what the world looks like with great parenting, holy crap!
People don't understand that there's hope in what I'm saying.
And again, I could be completely biased, but if it's not the family, it's something equally big.
If it's not our first 20 years of authority, of formative relationships with authority figures who have almost complete power over us, if that does not make us blind to the problems of power, If the state is not an effect of the family, then fine.
All that means is that it's the effect of something else.
And maybe that's the dark matter that I completely miss every single time.
I have no problem with that.
In which case people are more than welcome, of course, In fact, I would strongly suggest that if they're offended and upset and mad and anxious and pissed off about my focus on the family, fantastic! Then focus on something else, right?
Go for it! I mean, if I'm trying to plot a path to Mars using Newtonian physics, And you're down with Einsteinian physics?
Go for it! If I'm attempting to design a computer chip without reference to quantum mechanics, I guess, yeah, try and convince me.
But if I'm just not going to listen, then go and prove me wrong.
Come up with something better.
Now, I will tell people, though, for sure, that it's not going to be the same old shit that's been tried for 300 years.
Right? I mean, with all due respect to people who get stuck in their ways of thinking, that's pretty retarded.
To say, what we need is another political campaign.
What we need is another book proving that the Fed caused the free market.
What we need is another book proving how the government creation of railroads in the 19th century in the United States was inefficient because the politicians drew the railroad lines according to political pressures rather than efficiency.
We don't need another book.
Talking about how Lysander Spooner circumvented the post office until the government shut him down because he was so efficient.
That shit has been done up, back, sideways, forward, backwards, inside, outside, everywhere.
There are thousands and thousands of books on free market economics and how voluntarism is superior To central planning, to coercion, to monopolies, to unionization, to political pressures, to tariffs, to taxes, to excises.
Right? That is all done.
There are more books on the free market than anyone could reasonably absorb in ten lifetimes.
So putting one more Throwing one more book down the hole with no bottom that leads to more and more government, that's not going to work.
That's not going to work.
There is no magic key combination, no book, no special argument that is going to make it work.
It's got to be something we haven't tried before, or at least that we haven't tried Very hard.
Or haven't focused on a lot, right?
Now what we have focused on is economics and politics and some philosophy.
Right? And religion.
Right? That's been pretty core.
Sorry, I hope this isn't too loud.
That's been pretty core to what we've been doing.
Economics, politics, a little philosophy, and a whole lot of religion.
Got a whole lot of God.
Ba-dang! Ba-dang! And doing more of that...
It's kind of ridiculous.
Well, it's not kind of ridiculous.
It is ridiculous. Now I know...
That letting go of a massive paradigm like that is really tough.
It's really tough.
It is like peeling off six of the seven layers of epidermis we currently possess as bipeds with human DNA. It's really tough.
But that's okay.
We deal. We deal with it.
I mean, how can we worship the creative destruction of the free market And then quail before throwing away our own assumptions about what works and what doesn't, despite centuries of failure.
Oh, these economists, these thinkers, right?
They say, oh, well, you see, if we had subsidized carriage makers, we'd still have carriage makers even when everybody wanted cars.
The carriage makers have to throw away their investment, their capital.
They have to adapt to changing circumstances.
That's the beauty of capitalism.
And, of course, people complain that new things nullify their investment in capital equipment in particular.
Carriage companies spend years, decades, building up a loyal brand following.
A car comes along, and it's tough, but we should celebrate that creative destruction, right?
But what happens then when someone comes along and says, you know, I think we're missing something, and it's got to be something big.
Because if it's something little, wouldn't we feel stupid?
Like, really, ridiculously, dumbass, stupid.
If it was a little thing.
Oh, a couple more charts on how the Fed interest rates drive the housing market and we're done, baby!
The state, it falleth.
That would be so frustrating.
That would be so annoying. Or if there was some magical argument that did not provoke emotional resistance, where you could just, in 20 minutes or half an hour a day, Convert someone to a voluntarist?
Man, wouldn't we feel stupid?
That would echo through the universe!
But it has to be something hard and bulky and unpleasant and emotionally difficult.
It would have to be something that requires a rewrite so fundamental that we feel like we're lost in space.
Because again, if it wasn't, I think it's the family.
I think it is the family.
We can't see the violence in the state until we see the violence in the family.
We can't see the bullying and propaganda in the state until we see the bullying and propaganda in the family.
Not all families, but not everything the state does.
It's that way directly either.
So that's my focus.
And it's testament, of course, to how people don't understand the free market, that new and creative ways of solving age-old problems are always going to come along.
Was it going to be me or was it going to be some other guy?
It was going to be me, or it was going to be some other guy, or woman, who was going to tackle the family, a basic social component, our first impressions of the world, for like 10 to 15 years.
pretty much soul power.
And it's a unified field theory, right, to tie the family to the state, to tie the most abusive, sorry, to try the most personal power structure to the most abstract power structure. to try the most personal power structure to the most But it was also going to take a kind of self-empathy, and that's what I want to talk about here, now.
It also was going to take a kind of self-empathy.
So, for me, and this goes back 25 years, when I first got into psychology, At various points over the years, and then, oh my lord, did we ever dig into this?
When I was doing years of therapy for three hours a week.
Oh, did we dig into it.
And what we dug into was...
What hurt me the most?
And it wasn't, to me, the obvious thing.
Obviously it wasn't the government. The government didn't do smack to me when I was eight or ten other than bore me in school, right?
I guess it was a government-sponsored school that beat me with a cane, but that wasn't common.
But what hurt me the most?
What hurt me the most?
And do you know what hurt me the most?
What hurt me the most was not what my family did when I was a child.
It wasn't the beatings or the screamings or the throwings or the terrorizing or anything like that.
That's not what actually hurt me the most.
What hurt me the most Was the completely cowardly, chicken shit evasions of the people who knew exactly what was going on.
The people who didn't want to get involved, right?
And good people, in many ways, courageous people, nice people.
I mean, in hindsight, I don't want to say that they're chicken shit as a whole.
I just mean in this decision, because when I look back on it years later, there was kindnesses that were done to me that I didn't recognize at the time, which made sense later.
But the thing that hurt the most was how everyone Let it happen.
Right? I could hear me get my head beaten against the wall, getting screamed at, getting punched.
You know, vases shattering, plates being thrown, hurled, right?
Knives. They could hear all of them.
We lived in an apartment building, for God's sakes.
Everybody knew. And of course, as I've mentioned before, the people who were in charge of my mother's mental health when she was institutionalized, I went to visit her.
So they knew that there was a 13 or 14 year old kid in the mix.
13, I think. Maybe 14.
And no one did anything.
They just left me to go home.
Of course, it doesn't take a lot of that to make you wonder, where is all the virtue in society that supposedly drives things like the welfare state and the war on drugs and the war on terror and patriotism and virtue and goodness and integrity and courage?
Right.
If a whole bunch of people with suits of armor and hunting rifles let a child repeatedly get mauled by a bear...
It's a little hard to hear them talk about their wonderful courage and how they would do anything to protect the helpless from bears, right?
The whole social apparatus in place, right?
Supposed to deal with all this stuff, right?
But no one did, right?
Because, I believe, I don't know, but because they were frightened of my mother.
Right? And I tell you, my friends, I tell you, I will not let that happen to anyone else Where I have a choice.
I floated through life regularly beaten and broken, floated through a social world, met thousands of people on a number of continents and countries, while being repeatedly brutalized, and no one did anything.
No one said anything, no one took me aside.
What they did do was blame me For the results of that.
You're lazy. You don't do your homework.
You need to shower more, right?
We have no money for soap.
But nobody cares, right?
And then they talk about Canada and England.
Oh, it's a compassionate society.
We care about the poor.
We care about the helpless.
Nonsense. That's just self-puffery, right?
That's just self-congratulation for heroism in the face in these examples of rank cowardice and avoidance.
So, I floated through the world, mauled among hunters.
And no one said anything about it.
No one said anything about it.
Right? And once I realized what really hurt me, which was the betrayal of those who had power where I did not, those who walked away and said, I'm not going to do anything because the mom is scary because she's Vicious.
And she is. Well, once I figured out what hurt me the most, if I'm gonna say that I'm at all interested in ethics, and people can throw UPB out the shitter, and maybe it will go.
That's complete nonsense.
It's okay. Maybe all I did was disprove one of many paths that doesn't work.
Hey! I'm happy with that.
Maybe it's completely incomprehensible, makes no sense, that's fine.
But what I will take endless pride in is the fact that I did and do stand up where it counts.
People may say, oh, UPB is crap, but they can never quibble with the fact They can never say that I ignore the suffering of hurt children and young adults,
or any adults. No one can say that I don't, with open arms and perhaps an over loud mouth at times, reach out to comfort and to validate the pain of those who've been hurt by families,
by parents. That the UPB which I live by, even if you think the theory sucks, fine, the UPB that I live by is what hurt me most was the lack of a sympathetic witness, was the lack of moral authority and authenticity and courage in standing up to those who abused me.
I also know, not that I do therapy, but I also know from my own therapy that when it really began to turn around was when my therapist finally accepted that I had been genuinely abused.
It took like a year.
And she got it with my mom.
Took a while for other family members, but when she finally got it, oh man, it was such a weight off my shoulders, right?
After year, after year, after year, after year, after year, after year, after year of people saying nothing happened.
There's nothing.
Not even saying it.
It's just not there, right?
It is in the null zone.
When someone said, oh yeah, you know what?
What happened to you?
It was seriously awful, unforgivable.
What your family did was absolutely wrong and unacceptable and evil.
When that occurred, there was still a lot more work to do, but that was the turning point of my life. but that was the turning point of my life.
When my therapist finally empathized with the victim at the time, the child, And I can still remember, almost word for word, though I won't mention it here, I can really remember, she had like a ten minute speech where she finally, kind of came out of nowhere, where she finally talked about all the things that had happened.
How hurt and frustrated and alone and terrified and angry I must have been and arrr and so on.
Ah! To be seen!
For there to be a moral reality which people are willing to stand by around the most obvious and egregious of wrongs, which is the abuse of a child who is, in effect, a slave.
Worse than a slave, a slave can run away.
There was underground railroads for slaves, not for children, right?
Which does not mean, I'm sure you understand, right, does not mean that the institution is innately wrong.
Of course not.
But because it has such capacity for wrong, we have to work to make it so right.
And so, attempting to provide that which was the greatest, attempting to alleviate in others attempting to provide that which was the greatest, attempting to alleviate in others that which was the greatest hurt for me, has a lot to do with Please.
Because as it has turned out, I'm not alone.
I mean, how many of us do get validation for the crimes we suffered as children if we suffered those crimes?
All society is obsessed with ethics, but won't take a stand against scary parents, right?
And of course, I couldn't logically really, I mean, this is going to sound silly, I couldn't really get mad at people for failing to do something I was unwilling to do myself, right?
The only morality is climbing the mountain.
Hey, you should go climb the mountain!
Uh, no!
Later! Soon!
Right? Because I felt so lonely and resentful, hurt, frightened, upset, angry, about society's constant failure.
To either actually protect me or show me any sympathy for the abuse I was receiving, yeah, of course I'm going to try and provide what I so desperately wanted, what we all so desperately want, which is for people to live the ethics they talk about.
And yeah, parents are scary.
I got it. Oh, I know.
Oh, I know.
And my mom Successfully kept everyone from helping me, or even admitting there was anything wrong with the household, with the screamings and the beatings and the smashings.
And it's not easy to screw my courage to the sticking plates, so to speak, and change that, right?
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