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Sept. 10, 2008 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:39:52
1145 A MUST LISTEN - Falling Stories - A Dream Analysis

Colleen's soul opens to the world...

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Time Text
Alright. So, do you want to stop by reading the dream?
Sure. Okay.
Okay. I'm wandering around a lobby area with Greg G for some reason.
I think perhaps it's some kind of meet-up.
I know there was a considerable amount of time spent in the hotel prior to these events, but I can't remember much of it.
At this moment in the dream, however, a siren starts to go off.
I know instantly that it's a tornado siren and that we should head to the basement of the hotel for safety.
Greg doesn't really believe me, firstly that it's a tornado siren and secondly that we need to head to the basement.
I do get him to follow me though, making a point to run...
What time of day is the dream occurring in?
In your dream, what time of day it is?
It is about midday.
Midday. Okay, okay, thanks.
Okay. I do get him to follow me, though, making a point to run down the stairs rather than take the elevator for some reason, and his skepticism vanishes when he sees the other people in the basement who are bracing themselves for the storm.
Okay, I notice with panic that Rich is not in the basement, and so even though I'm flooded with a sense of danger now, I tear up the stairs all the way to the top floor where our room is.
He's in the room, working on the computer, and I tell him hurriedly about the impending tornado and the need to head to the basement.
He seems skeptical too, certainly not sharing my urgency, but follows me with little persuasion.
Once in the basement, somehow I can see outside and see the tornado.
It's an absolute juggernaut, and the sky all around is a pinkish-brown.
The next thing I know, I'm in the backseat of a parked car with Rich in the middle of a field next to a tree.
The car in the field next to a tree is an image that has shown up in dreams prior.
We see the tornado behind us, which appears to be slowly approaching, but gets faster as it nears.
I'm not sure if the tornado will hit us or miss, but I press myself into Rich's arms, thinking this is the way I'd want to die.
We hold each other tightly, and suddenly the car starts to move.
I'm not sure who is driving, other than I know it's a woman.
She heads north, the same way that the tornado is winding.
I realize that we cannot possibly outrun it.
Sorry to interrupt. Does winding mean that you're following the tornado or that the tornado is coming towards you?
It's following us.
Okay, so it's in your rear view mirror and it's coming towards you but you're driving north.
Right. Okay, got it.
Sorry. I realize that we cannot possibly outrun it, so I give her directions to veer right, although I mean left, and head east as far as she possibly can, which she does.
We end up running over some train tracks to make our turn and head into the city.
I look up and the grey-brownish areas where the tornado has formed are stretching out like fingers across the sky, but now we're under a sky of blue with white puffy clouds.
Suddenly, we're now biking away from the storm and one of the people with us is an ex-friend of mine that I separated from somewhat early in my FDR journey.
She stops because she gets too exhausted and asks for someone to take her place.
A girl we don't know that's in the group volunteers and starts to put on proper footwear to ride the bike.
She does this slowly with absolutely no recognition of the possible danger if she doesn't hurry up.
I look down the street and notice that the mammoth tornado, which would have kept heading north past us, is now altering its course, heading straight at us.
I catch Rich's eye across the girl who's lacing up and make a silent request for us to leave these people behind and to just start running.
So now we're running down the street and I'm trying to get the attention of passing cars in hopes that they'll help us outrun the storm.
An Asian woman driver sees me, smiles, and stops her car.
I think she's going to let us in, but she gets out of her car and starts to walk fast alongside us.
I'm really put off by this, but ignore it completely.
I cut into another hotel lobby with plans to walk all the way through it and out the other end so as to change our direction out of the path of the tornado once more.
The next thing I can remember, and I'm not sure how I got here, is that I'm at the very top of this hotel, looking over the entire city.
The tops of the buildings are all visible, as this is the tallest point in the city.
I'm surrounded by wall-sized windows, and I witness the tornado ripping through downtown.
I can see all of this with clear horrifying detail.
The giant tornado is completely leveling buildings by barely touching a corner of them.
They're collapsing in a pancake fashion, and I can see, with nearly binocular vision, images of people being crushed underneath the collapsing stories.
I'm screaming and crying as I witness all of this.
I see an image of a family in a parking garage.
One corner of the store above them collapses onto their van and they run towards it, calling out, as one of their loved ones is apparently trapped under the rubble.
Watching the families split apart is the most tragic part.
The tornado now hits a lake or an ocean where a small day cruise ship is docked with people on board.
The tornado creates a large wave that knocks several people into the water.
I notice a Persian family has lost their youngest son and are now desperate to find him in the water and rescue him.
Suddenly, I'm with them, helping them trying to find their son.
They believe he's under the water, but I can hear his calls and he sounds as if he's on land.
He sounds fine, but we cannot find him.
The next scene of the dream I remember seems to have nothing to do with this series of events.
I'm riding in a car with my father in my old neighborhood.
We're in his old Toyota from many, many years ago and listening to Steph on the radio.
He's talking about how a reason parenting is universally bad these days is a result of parents not having a rational understanding of morality.
My father shuts off the radio at this point and angrily, bitterly mocks Steph for a while.
That's about where I think it ends.
Alright, so you understood the day before the dream, you can't think of doing anything in particular that was so unusual.
You went tubing with a friend?
Right. I was just floating down the river.
Oh, like the inner tubes thing, right?
Yes. And that's not like whitewater rafting, that's pretty calm, right?
Right. We talked about some philosophy and his problems with trying to bring atheists to his girlfriend.
We had a pretty fun time on the river.
Steph's idea of platonic epistemology leading to dictatorships before I went to bed.
Okay. Okay.
Interesting. So, A, so far, Dream Oscar goes to you.
That is, without a doubt, one of the wildest dreams that I've ever heard of.
And it's certainly not wilder than I've had, and I'm sure it's not wilder than people have had in general, but that is a very intense and very wild dream.
So, the Oscar goes to you, so far, at least.
And that's partly because we haven't done much on Dreams lately.
But I thought this one was powerful enough that it seemed like a life dream, in my opinion.
Something well worth spending time on.
So, the first thing we have to understand is why you hate Greg G so much.
Why you would leave him behind.
To be ripped apart.
Greg, you go to the basement.
I'm going to go and leave with Rich.
Anyway, we'll come back to that.
Because, you know, I've had those dreams about Greg too, so...
Just kidding.
Okay. Okay, so, I mean, the first thing that I notice, obviously, is the skepticism.
That people have...
And everyone who's skeptical, if I understand it rightly, is a man, right?
No. Well, yes.
Initially, I can sense skepticism from them, but there's a woman later in the dream who doesn't have a sense of danger either.
Oh, the Asian woman.
Oh, actually, I guess two then, because the girl who's lacing up to get on the bike and then the Asian woman.
Right, right. Okay, now, I just want to understand a little bit more about the conversation you had about your friend and his girlfriend.
Yeah. What do you think is going to happen to their relationship if the girlfriend does not accept recent documents?
It's not going to work out.
And how long have they been going out?
How is it? About a month or so.
Oh, okay. So this is not a huge thing.
Well, he's also the guy who's about to have the conversation with his foo.
Right. And did you guys talk about that much at all?
We did last night, and we're going to tonight as well, but we didn't talk about that when we were going to the river.
Right. Okay. Okay.
So you start in a hotel...
Right? And maybe it's some kind of meet-up like there was in...
It's nothing to do with FDR at the beginning, right?
Other than the fact that Greg's there?
Right. So it's not like you've come there for an FDR seminar or anything like that?
Right. I don't remember anything like that.
Okay. Well, that's probably why everything goes wrong afterwards.
Just kidding. Okay. Um...
And do you remember, if you were chatting with Greg, what you were talking about, anything like that before the siren started?
No, I don't remember any of that.
I remember, I got kind of a vague memory of, like, playing video games, and that's all I remember.
Right, right, okay. And do you know what a tornado siren sounds like?
Is it specific, or is it just in the dream you know?
Like, do you know in real life? Yeah, I do.
And it's a specific kind of siren?
Yes. Okay, so that makes sense.
And that you should head to the basement for safety.
Now, does Greg not believe you that it's a tornado?
Does he believe you that it is a tornado, but he doesn't believe it's dangerous?
Or is there something else? Well, at first, he doesn't believe that the siren is actually indicating a tornado because, I don't know, around where I used to live, they'd have sirens to test out the sirens every week.
And so he doesn't believe me that it's an actual tornado.
And then when I convince him of that, he doesn't believe that it's dangerous enough that we need to, you know, go to the basement.
Right, right. And is your sense, when you hear the siren, that there is great danger, or is it just, well, caution?
Yeah, it's definitely a sense of great danger.
Like, you know there's a big tornado, it's coming, that's certain, and so on, is that right?
Oh, you know, no, at first it's just caution before we get to the basement, and then when we get into the basement, I suddenly, like, have a huge flood of danger that it's a big tornado and it's, like, going to hit us or something.
Right, okay, so you're like, you know, it doesn't matter whether it's a drill or not, let's get to the basement.
And then, as you say, you get to the basement, there's all these people, and you're like, oh my god, right?
Right, that's more...
Greg's reaction. My reaction was like, I knew it was a tornado.
Like, I knew it wasn't just a drill.
Right, okay. But then when, sorry, but then when you get to the basement, Greg seems much more alarmed, and for you it's more of a confirmation, is that right?
Sorry, I didn't get the last of that.
For you, it's more of a confirmation, is that right?
One more time.
For you, it's more of a confirmation, is that right?
Thank you.
Thank you.
For me it's a...
Confirmation? Yes, yes.
Okay. Now...
You...
So Rich is in a room somewhere at the top of the hotel, right?
Right. And you go to the basement and your thought is that Rich is already going to the basement, right?
Right. Now Rich is not in the basement and so you go to...
He follows you, though.
He's skeptical, too, right? Right.
Now, when you're in the basement, you can see.
Now, there's no windows in the basement, right?
Right. So you can see to the outside, as you say, and see the tornado.
That indicates, psychologically speaking, that the tornado obviously is not an external phenomenon.
Can you elaborate on that?
Well, if you're in a room with no windows, I mean, physical laws are not violated randomly in dreams, in my experience, right?
They're violated for a reason, and they're violated to tell you something.
So if you're in a room with no basement, but you can see the sky outside, the dream is telling you that what you're witnessing is an internal state.
Okay, that makes sense.
Does that make sense? Yes.
Yes.
Now, the interesting thing is that in the dream, once you recognize that it's an internal state, the scene changes.
And I'm not saying you recognize this consciously because you're in the dream, right?
So you're just trying to struggle through.
But when you are in the basement with no windows but you can see outside, then you change and you're in the backseat with a park car in the middle of a field next to a tree, right?
Right.
Now, is this one of these things where it's a big, big field and there's only one tree and it's a big sort of wide tree?
They have these in movies all the time, right?
Yes. And that's the situation?
Is the woman in the front of the car at the beginning of this scene, the one who drives?
No, she just appears later.
Okay. Backseat of a parked car with Rich.
I mean, my thought, and this probably doesn't have anything to do with the dream, but obviously, you know, a man and a woman in the backseat of a parked car in some out-of-the-way place has sexual connotations in my mind, but that may mean nothing whatsoever.
That's just sort of what comes to mind.
But that has nothing to do with what's going on in the dream.
When you are first in the parked car, do you...
Think that there is a tornado still around, or does this start off as a completely different scene?
What happens is the tornado is in the background.
I'm not sure.
I'm thinking, I don't know how we got here.
You know that the moment you're in the scene with the car, you're still aware that there's a tornado and it's part of the same thing, right?
Right. Okay, got it, got it.
So, when you're in the backseat of the parked car, the first thing you would logically do would be to jump into the front seat and start driving, right?
Right, and I think to myself, like, there's no possible way that we can outrun this.
Well, sure, but you're in a field, so you can go any direction, right?
Right. Like, I mean, if you were in a canyon, you couldn't, right?
Right, right. Because later, although you say you want to go left, you say go right or whatever, but you go at a 90 degree angle away from the path of the tornado, right?
Right. And the dream is saying you're in a field, you're in a car, you're not in the driver's seat, but you can go anywhere you want, right?
Because it's a field, not a canyon or a narrow city block or something, right?
Right. So what happens when you're in the backseat of the car and you know there's a tornado coming?
I'm sorry? So you feel helpless to avoid the tornado, right?
Yes. So it appears to be slowly approaching, but it gets faster as it nears.
How far away is the tornado in the dream when you see it in the car?
Not more than like a hundred yards.
Oh, okay. So there's no point even getting out of the car, right?
Right. So you are resigning yourself to death at this point, right?
Yes. I mean, it really feels like this is it, right?
Right. There's no point getting out of the car, there's no point driving in the front seat of the car or anything, right?
Right. Now, it's interesting when you say you think this is the way that I would want to die, right?
Because that indicates that even in the dream, you know that it's not real.
The what's not real?
That the dream is not real.
Because if in the dream you genuinely believed that it was real, you'd say, this is the way I do want to die.
Because you think you're about to die, right?
Right, right. But you say, I think this is the way I would want to die.
Right. I mean, I don't want to be all semantic, but there's a big difference there, right?
Yeah, yeah, you're right. There's a kind of sentimentality about it, like, this would be a very stirring and emotional way to die, rather than, I'm just about to die and this is the way I want to die.
Right. Like, in a way, you're skeptical now.
And again, I don't want to read too much.
Maybe this is not the right approach, but there was just something about that that struck me as odd. - Right. - I mean, do you remember that moment Was it sentimental, like you're watching a movie and this is a stirring way to die, or was it, I'm about to die and this is how I want to go?
Could you repeat that? Sure.
Is it, when you're there, is it sentimental, like, this is moving, this is powerful, this is how I would want to die, or is it, this is how I do want to die and I'm about to die?
I do. I mean, the more I think about it, the more I think it was like, this is how I do want to die, and I am going to die.
Okay, got it. I just want to make sure whether that was something that was occurring.
So, in a sense, then, in the dream, you do accept your death, right?
Yes. And you also accept that trying to get to safety doesn't work.
Right. Because you were in a basement, right?
Right. You were in a basement, you were supposed to be safe, then you're in an open field in a car with the twister about to hit, right?
Yes. So that indicates that the basement is actually not safe, right?
Right. Right.
Now, later in the dream, you come back to that with the destruction of the family in the parking lot.
But we'll get to that in a sec, right?
Right. So once you accept that you cannot escape the tornado and you wait to die, the car comes to life, right?
Right. So she's gunning the engine like crazy...
And you say, go right, although you mean left.
Yeah. Is that something that you do?
Christina does that, right?
I mean, whenever she gives me directions in the car, I generally have to reverse them.
Does that happen to you at all?
Oh, yeah. And in a sense, it doesn't really matter, right?
In this situation. Whether you break or break left doesn't matter, right?
Practically, yeah. Yeah, because it's like, just don't be in the path of the tornado.
Whether you go left or right doesn't matter, right?
Right.
But I don't know if it's important to note or not, but left is the way of the city.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
today.
Now... Sorry, you give her directions to via right, although you mean left, and head east.
Does she go right or left?
She goes left. Oh, so you say go right, but you mean go left, and she goes left, right?
Right. And what does that indicate to you about her?
That there's some kind of...
The first thing I thought was something about my unconscious, like she understands what needs to be done, even though I'm an error.
Well, you're only an error in what you say.
What it means is that she has a connection with what you think, not what you say, right?
Right. So she's a part of you?
Yes. Now, if you contrast this to all the people who are skeptical, right, who don't believe what you say about the danger of the tornado, this woman is not only not skeptical of what you say, she gets what you mean, not what you say.
Right. That's quite a difference, right?
Yes. So the interesting thing is that this is a very mutually beneficial negotiation.
So she saves you, but then she goes in the wrong direction along the path of the twister, right?
Right. And then you say, go right when you mean left, but she actually goes.
So she's listening to you.
You're saving her, and she's saving you, right?
True. True. Okay, so we go to the city, right?
Now, is the city the same city that you came from?
That I originated from?
That you started the dream in with the hotel.
We weren't in a city. Oh, the hotel wasn't in a city?
I don't think so.
They usually are, but...
But it's not, basically, you're not going back to where you came from, right?
In the dream. Right.
Okay, so you look up in the grey-brownish areas, fingers across the sky.
We're now under a sky of blue with white puffy clouds, right?
Which is nice, right?
Yes. Now, you did the meditation, right?
I did. And did this sky remind you of anything?
there's a bit in the meditation where you think about a pleasant place with the sky?
No, I don't think so.
Okay, okay. Biking away from the storm.
Okay, so the car and the woman is gone, right?
Yeah. And is Rich still there?
Yes, Rich is there. Okay.
And ex-friend separated.
She stops because she gets too exhausted and asks for someone else to take her place.
What does that mean? God, I was thinking about that myself.
There's... These random strangers in our group, I can't remember if I was biking too or if this ex-friend was the only one with a bike, but she gets too tired on the bike and she wants somebody to take her place on the bike.
And this other girl volunteers that we don't know.
And does that mean that someone else is going to pedal, like there's going to be two people on one bike, or is it like, you take my bike, I'm going to stay?
Right, she's going to stay.
So she's accepting death, right?
Right. I mean, if I understand the dream correctly, right?
Right, she would be accepting death.
The thing is that none of them seem to realize that they are accepting death.
Right, okay. A girl we don't know that's in our group volunteers and starts to put on proper footwear to ride the bike.
Now, that's deranged, right?
Obviously. Right. There's one thing you don't worry about when you're out running a lion is whether your shoes are nice and tight, right?
Right. Okay.
Now, the tornado...
In this part, it starts to seem like a predator, you know?
What is that? It starts to seem like a predator.
Like, it's now, like, it was gonna head north past you, it's now altering its course, heading straight at us, if that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like a conscious entity at this point, if that makes sense.
Yes. So you catch Rich's eye across the goal is lacing up, request for us to leave these people behind and to just start running.
But why do you get off your bike?
Um... I can't really piece that together.
I don't even remember if I was riding myself.
I don't remember if I had a bike.
I just remember this other girl was on a bike.
Okay, got it. Got it.
Alright. So, are you in the city as yet?
Yes, we're in the city. Okay, trying to get the attention of passing cars in hopes that they'll help us out around the storm, right?
Right. Right. This Asian woman smiles and is friendly.
She gets out and starts to walk fast alongside us, right?
Yeah. And you say you're really put off by this.
Tell me what the feeling is there.
Like there's just a complete lack of understanding of the situation.
Like this woman is crazy or something.
Like she's choosing death in a way?
No, that she...
The thought I keep having about the people around me is they don't understand what's going on.
Well, but that lack of understanding, the dream seems to indicate, because when you're in the car, when the tornado touches you, you die, right?
Right. So the people who are treating it like it's not important...
And I'm trying not to read to you, I mean, this is because you feel, you explicitly feel like I'm about to die.
The people who don't take it seriously are courting death, right?
And the dream is very explicit about that later on, because thousands of people seem to get killed, right?
Right. Or more, right?
True. But, and I've just, if I were in the situation in real life, I mean, if she got out of her car, I would get into the car, because she probably wouldn't have left her keys in the car, right? She would have had them with her. Right.
But you don't try to reason with her, right?
Right. I didn't see a point in that.
But that's interesting because in real life, if you could get away in a car and someone got out of the car, you would try to reason with her, right?
Would you if they seemed completely insane?
No, I guess not.
Okay, so she just seemed completely insane, is that right?
Yeah. And of course, you already tried the car thing in the dream, right?
That's true. And it didn't work, right?
And you're on a bike, right?
Right? Right.
All right. So you cut into another hotel lobby.
You kick Greg once more.
No, sorry. I cut into another hotel lobby with plans to walk all the way through it and out the other end.
So as to change our direction out of the path of the tornado once more, right?
Right. Right. So, you're not going to the basement, right?
Right. Because last time you went to the basement, you end up in a field, right?
So, there's no safety, right?
Right. I'm at the very top of this hotel, looking out over the entire city.
Yeah, I've had that top of the city dream when I was in therapy during a particularly wrenching transition in my growth.
I know, I know.
It's like you can see every hair on everyone's head.
You can see every tire mark.
You can see the surface and the roughness of each brick.
It's incredibly detailed, right?
Yeah, yeah. I've had the whole city dream, and I wish I could have it again, but I don't get those dreams anymore.
Fortunately, I'm too stable at the moment.
The tops of the buildings are all visible.
This is the tallest point of the city.
Wall-sized windows.
The tornado is ripping through downtown, right?
Yeah. Now, leveling buildings by barely touching a corner of them, right?
Yeah. That indicates that these imposing structures...
These impressive buildings are actually paper thin, right?
Yes. It's like their house of cards, right?
Right, right. Because logically they shouldn't fall from just being brushed by a tornado, right?
Right, right. People are crushed beneath collapsing stories, screaming and crying.
Now, this justifies why you didn't stay in the basement or weren't allowed to stay in the basement, right?
Oh, I didn't think of that at all.
Yeah. Go on.
Yeah, of course.
If I would stay in the basement, the building was collapsed on top of us.
Right, right, yeah, as you see, right?
So this is good, right?
This means that going to the basement is not good, right?
Right. And have you, just obviously this is an obvious question I should have asked earlier, have you ever seen a tornado up close or doing its thing?
Nope. Movies, did you see the movie Twister?
Flying cows? Oh yeah, yeah.
Okay. And did you have any strong reactions to that movie, or was it just, you know, hey, that's fun?
Oh, no. I think I did have some kind of really strong reaction to it.
Like, I watched it several times, and I was, like, terrified of tornadoes after that.
Right. Because it sounds similar.
Like, I had dreams of two things, of a comet hitting the Earth, and of the resulting huge waves.
That would destroy cities.
And, like, I had that same world destruction dream sequence, although for me it was not a tornado, but a meteor, but it doesn't really matter, right?
Right. So, you see an image of a family in a parking garage.
Does that mean that you have a vision while you're standing at the top of the building, or are you actually there?
Right. Sorry, one more time.
When you see an image of a family in a parking garage, is it a vision that you see from the top of the building, or are you actually there?
I see it. I'm seeing it from the top of the building, but it's like I'm zoomed in, like I'm watching it with binoculars.
Got it. Okay. Now, I'm going to put an interpretation...
To this part of the dream, which you will only know if it's right if you get goosebumps, right?
So this is an interpretation.
It may or may not be true, right?
But you just let me know what your emotional reaction to it is.
You say, when you're looking at this family, one corner of the story above them collapses, right?
Right. Dreams are very adroit at double meaning.
The double meanings of words, right?
Right. A collapsing story.
Oh my god.
Do you get the goosebumps too?
Yeah. Okay, well that means we're probably in the right direction then.
Yeah. And I just felt this wave of sadness when you said that,
too. I keep thinking of these families, when we talk about at FDR, they collapse, or they get split apart, I guess, when the story of the family collapses.
Yes, when the mythology collapses.
Right? Everything collapses.
Right. And the twister, the tornado, merely brushes the building, merely brushes the building, and all the stories collapse, right?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
And they run towards the van, calling out as one of their loved ones is apparently trapped under the rubble, right?
Right. This also indicates that a car is not safe, right?
Right, right. Watching the families split apart is the most tragic part.
Can you tell me what you mean there by split apart?
Do you mean physically torn asunder?
Or do you mean split by rubble?
Or do you mean split emotionally?
Just tell me what that means.
Right. I guess what sort of touched me most deeply or sort of just horrified me was, you know, When a family had seen another family member die or get lost and they were all running back to them and,
you know, when you could see the loss and that kind of thing on their face, like that was the hardest part to see.
Right. Right, okay.
Now, the twister is huge, though, and everyone could see it coming, right?
Right. So, isn't the real tragedy, which is constantly talked about in your dream, that people reject the obvious danger?
Right, right.
And the consequences of rejecting the obvious danger...
Our disaster, right?
Right.
Yeah.
Okay, the tornado now hits a lake erosion by the small day cruise ship is docked with people on board.
Thank you.
I'm no expert, but I gotta think that's not a good place to be, right?
Right, yeah. A large wave that knocks several people into the water.
Now, a Persian family, I don't know, were you around at all in the chat room yesterday?
No. Oh, the reason that I'm saying is that I've mentioned, and I don't know if anyone mentioned this to you or not, but the good listener Ducky Feats, if you remember her at all?
Yep. She has decided to leave FDR because she's, as she says, concerned with the direction it's heading in and so on.
And she's friends with this Z3KO fellow that I had this big conflict with on the board.
Right. And she comes from a Persian family.
That's the only association that I could think of, but if you didn't know that, then I think we would be assuming too much of a psychic borg brain otherwise.
Yeah. And do you have any association?
Because Persian is not correct, right?
Iranian is Persian.
Persian's an old, right?
Persian doesn't exist anymore.
Right. Right. I don't know.
I have no idea. The only thing...
Yeah, Greg just said on the board, ancient history...
To me, it's an odd detail.
There's no other ethnicity that's mentioned in the dream.
Oh, sorry, there's the Asian woman, right?
Who's, dare I say it, disoriented?
No, that's just too clever.
But Persian, it's just interesting.
Do you have any associations with that?
Um... I don't, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know why normally I would have said, like, they're Iranian or something like that.
I don't normally use that.
Right, right.
And how would you even know that they're Persian, right?
Yeah. Like, we're Persian, you know?
I went to Persia and all I got was this lousy dream, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay, that's no problem.
Let me ask you this.
I assume that you've been listening to some of the stuff that I have been talking about that's come out of this psychohistory group?
Oh yeah, yeah.
Right, now in that there is of course a brutal and endless series of well-researched descriptions of the predations and abuse of children in Middle Eastern countries, right?
Yes, yes. And in the past, right?
And when you put the past together with the Middle East, you get Persia, right?
That's true. And in the psychohistory stuff, which is frankly having a terrible effect on donations, but that's a story for another time.
In the psychohistory stuff...
The children are exploited because they are psychologically invisible to the parents, right?
There's no empathy, right?
Right. And what you say here, desperate to find him in the water and rescue him, this Persian family, suddenly I'm with them, helping them try to find their son, right?
They believe he's under the water, but I can hear his calls and he sounds as if he's on land.
He sounds fine, but we cannot find him, right?
Right. Right. So the child is invisible.
Exactly. Also, I go to where I hear his calls coming from, and there's nobody there.
Right, right, right.
And in the psychohistory stuff, the children are exploited because psychologically they are invisible, right?
Right. I don't know exactly what we can do with this as yet, but what's also interesting is that they believe he's under the water, but you can hear him, and if he was underwater, you couldn't hear him, right?
Right. I mean, you can't hear someone yelling underwater.
I mean, if you're underwater, maybe you can a little bit, but you can't hear someone yelling underwater, right?
Right. So...
The Persian family, not only can they not see their son, but they can't even hear him, right?
Right. You can hear him, but they think he's underwater, which indicates they can't hear him.
Right, right. So he's not just invisible to them, but he is inaudible to them as well.
True. True. Right?
So, you can perceive more of this child than his parents can, right?
Yeah. But you can't find him.
Right. And what I'm guessing that means is he doesn't want to be found.
Yeah, I don't think so either.
Yeah. I mean, if he's around but can't be found, it's because he doesn't want to be found, right?
Right. And probably what that means is that he doesn't want to be found by his family.
Because you can hear him, right?
Yeah. And he sounds happy.
Oh, he sounds happy.
Okay. Yeah.
So he sounds happy, but he does not want his parents to find him.
And his parents can't see him or hear him, and are just making stuff up, right?
Yeah, yeah. Alright.
Come back to that in a sec. In the next scene, you remember, nothing to do with the series of events, riding in a car with my father in my old neighborhood.
His old Toyota, the Orient, from many, many years ago, and listening to Steph on the radio.
Oh, I see. I misunderstood this.
You say he's talking about how reasoned parenting is universally bad as a result of parents not having a rational understanding of morality.
I thought that he was your dad, which I was sort of shocked at.
But your father shuts off the radio at this point and angrily, bitterly mocks me for a while, right?
Yeah. So...
This is, to me, I think it does have a little bit to do with the last scene with the Persian family, because that you can hear a voice that the parent shuts off or won't hear is the same in both, Right?
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, and also the other similarity, like, he doesn't even look at me this whole time.
I'm sitting next to him. So I'm invisible to him, and I think this is me as a child.
Right, which means that it's very similar to the Persian thing then, right?
Right, right. Do you remember the last time, I know this is probably hard to remember, do you remember the last time you listened to that psychohistory stuff?
About a week ago. In the meditation, have you had much success with the inner child altar?
Inner child what?
Alter ego, in the dream, you know, to go and visit with the inner child and so on.
Have you had much success with that visualization?
Like, have I been able to do it?
Yeah. Yes, yes.
Because I think, if I remember rightly, one of the earliest things that you and I talked about many moons ago was that you couldn't remember much of your early childhood.
Yeah. Yeah. Have you had any more luck with that through anything you've done more recently or through any of this meditation?
You know, in the meditation, the child that I see looks to be about seven years old.
Like, I can't really picture it any younger than that.
Right. And when was the last time you did the meditation?
Last night. Before that.
Or have you only done it once?
Oh, no, I did it last night, and then, like, two nights before I had this dream.
Okay. I have an association that may mean nothing, of course, but the association that comes to my mind is that before seven is the tornado.
Like, pre-seven...
requires that you deal with the tornado to get to your earlier self.
Okay.
What, I mean, I'm kind of confused.
No, no, there's no reason to be confused.
Bye-bye. No, just kidding. No reason to be confused at all.
Okay, and this is totally...
Oh wait, I'm so sorry to interrupt you.
I just remembered. I did have a lot of success thinking about early, early childhood, but just feelings of around...
I'm thinking almost going back to infancy associated with my mother.
Go on. And this thought just came to you now, is that right?
Yeah. Okay, so what's the thought?
It was because for so long I had...
I never really felt any kind of connection with my mom and I didn't respect her at all.
I wouldn't have said that I loved her or anything, so I didn't really understand...
How it was affecting me for a long time, the lack of relationship with her.
And then I had this huge wave of sadness the other day.
It was so intense that I had to come home from work.
It was all around this feeling of wanting my mom and feeling like...
Knowing that she'd never, ever come.
Right. Right.
Right. I'm so sorry.
I totally get how sad that is.
I'm very sorry about that.
Yeah, and it was just the first time I had ever experienced anything like that.
And I just got the sense that it was like some really ancient feeling.
Right. Do you remember, when you think of that feeling, what was driving the need for your mother?
Was it because you were scared?
Was it because you were upset?
Was it because you wanted to express love?
What was it that was driving the feeling of wanting your mother?
At first, I was thinking it was being upset.
It was sadness, and I just wanted to be comforted.
I just wanted her sympathy and her...
I mean, I just can't remember a time like that.
And what was that?
I... At the time, I don't really know.
It was just this whole sort of existential depression.
But when I thought back, I was thinking of times of being in school and being so unhappy and faking sick all the time and deep down really just wanting her to notice that something was wrong.
It was your dad? Sorry, go ahead.
That's when it got the most sort of intense, I guess.
Right. Wanting to feel visible, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Whereas, in the dream, the Persian boy...
Ha ha ha.
This is another double entendre, and you can let me know if it gives you goosebumps or not.
It certainly did me, but that doesn't mean anything because it's not my dream.
Right.
What did I say the new word for Persia is?
Iranian.
I ran.
Yeah.
The whole dream is about running, right?
Right. I ran.
Yeah. That didn't give you goosebumps.
I can tell. I didn't give you goosebumps, right?
It could not be right.
It's a connection that I made, but it doesn't mean that it's anything accurate.
I made the connection.
I just... I don't know.
I think there is something to it, I just don't know.
Well, because right after we have this dream about Iran, the origins of Iran, Persia is the old, right?
Persia is pre-running, so to speak.
What causes you to run, what comes up next is your father, right?
Right.
And that, to me, would say, this is what I'm running from.
Okay, no, I'm totally lost.
No, no problem. Lost means either I'm completely wrong or I'm completely right.
So we'll figure it out, right?
Okay. Persian is such an odd detail.
Persian is the original form of the original country, which is now called Iran, right?
So let's say that your unconscious is telling you that you're running.
And of course, the whole dream, you're running from everything, right?
Right. You're running from this tornado.
Yeah. Right? And...
The tornado destroys blindly, right?
It seems to have some elements of consciousness, right?
Because it follows you.
But it destroys blindly, right?
Yeah. Right?
Yeah. And at the end, this Persian family...
Have lost their son who actually is hiding, right?
Who has run away, who's running from them, and only you can hear him, right?
Right. And he's happy that they can't find him, right?
Right. Now, children can't actually run away.
We can only run away at our minds.
It's called dissociation, right?
Yeah. And that's one of the things that I pointed out this Sunday night after the barbecue, right?
Right. That you were not present much on the weekend, right?
Right. Now, if the dream is about you running, it would be a very cruel dream if it did not tell you what you were running from, right?
Right. Because otherwise you're just a coward running around for no reason, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So what's the last snippet of this dream after Persia?
My father.
Something you care about, which is philosophy, right?
Being mocked and derided.
Right. In Persia.
In a cowardly, vicious, petty, little, nothing way, right?
Yeah. Bitterly mocking is the actions of a rank little coward, right?
Right. It's very petty, right?
Right. It's not like he's saying, man, this guy really makes me angry and I don't know why.
He's not saying, well, you know, Steph is wrong because of X and Y and Z, right?
Right. Bitter mocking is really unconscious rage, right?
Yeah.
It's impotent.
But when you see, if the tornado represents, this is nonsense, if the tornado represents, this is nonsense, right?
But maybe. If the tornado represents your father's rage, if, and it probably represents many things, but maybe, right?
Your father's rage.
Because my mother was the raging one in my family, right?
So... My world-destroying dreams, which was the world of my infancy and my early childhood, my world-destroying dreams were all feminine, right?
It's all about a comet going into an ocean, right?
Feminine?
Yeah, the ocean receiving the penetration from the comet.
It's more female.
Oh, okay. Okay.
Yes. Whereas the twister is phallic, right?
True. You say fingers in the sky, right?
Yes. And the women are all dissociated.
From the anger in the dream, from the tornado, forget the metaphor, but from the tornado, right?
Well, so are the men.
That's true. That's true.
But the men who are Dissociated from the danger, also had very angry fathers, right?
Yes. There's a reason why Greg's in there, right?
As opposed to, I don't know, Steve Buscemi, right?
Yes, that's true.
And Rich had an angry dad, right?
Oh, yeah. And your mom dissociated from the danger, right?
Right. So, if this is a possible interpretation that makes sense, and again, this is all conditional upon reflection and all blah blah blah, right?
But if this is a possible interpretation at one level, it probably is at many levels, that makes sense.
Then this is leading you back to your early experiences of your father's rage.
And as you go further back to experience your father's rage and the way in which it ripped apart things which seemed very strong, right?
I would say the city would be your mother.
Again, this is all because it's supposed to provide shelter specifically to children, right?
Right. And your mother crumbled in the face of your father's rage, right?
Right. Well, how does this connect to the collapsing story thing?
Well, when you see it...
Sorry, I'm just yelling, when you see it!
I don't mean to yell at you, right?
It's passion. When you see this, the story collapses, right?
Right. Yes, okay.
When you get to the top, the highest point in the city, which is the deepest part of yourself, and you see this, the stories collapse, right?
And you feel the agony of family death, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And nobody around you, if I understand it, and remember correctly and tell me if I'm full of nonsense, but people around you I don't think really saw how destructive your father was.
Right, right. So you hear the siren, right?
Auga, right? Tornado coming, right?
Yeah. And you try an enormous variety of strategies, right?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
To try and avoid this rage.
And we all did, God.
We all like that.
We all tried six million different ways to appease these angry gods, right?
Right.
And nothing worked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the amazing thing about this middle section of the dream is that when you see how destructive this tornado is, the whole dream you're terrified of this tornado, right? Right.
But when you get to the top of this building, And you see the tornado carving its way through the city.
You don't actually feel afraid of the tornado anymore.
Doesn't mean that you don't feel.
You do. You feel horror for what it is doing, right?
But you, because logically you'd say, oh, well, if it collapses every building it touches, and I'm in the tallest building, I could die here too, right?
Right. But you don't feel that.
No. No. That's a real change, right?
Yeah. So once you see the tornado, in a sense, from above, if that makes sense? Not from the ground looking up, from the tallest building looking, I know it's not exactly down, but it's a different perspective, right?
Right. You now feel empathy for others, not just fear for yourself, right?
Right. That's the difference.
That's the difference by getting to the big view, the top view, the top of the city view.
Because beforehand...
You're like, fuck, I'm leaving Greg behind.
Fuck, I don't care what happens to this woman in the goddamn car.
Fuck, I don't care what this woman who wants the right footwear, fuck her, right?
Fuck an oriental woman, she's crazy.
Fuck her too, right? You get no empathy, right?
Right, right. Ah, but then...
When you see...
The destruction. Rather than fear the destruction, when you see the destruction, that this tornado, you know it's not going to hurt you, right?
Right. So, you're no longer in fear of your life, and you can begin to feel empathy and the horror and the fear towards others, right?
Right, and then I want to help.
And then you want to help.
And then you can even see the invisible and empathize with the invisible children, right?
Right. To me, that's an amazing bit of progress, right?
You actually lose fear and gain empathy through the course of this dream.
Yeah.
And then, the dream gives you your father the dream gives you your father at the end, right?
Right. You said his old Toyota from many, many years ago.
How old are we talking? Oh, probably like a decade.
Oh, okay. So not like 15 years, right?
About 10 years? Yeah.
Now, the interesting thing is that In the car, I'm not actually criticizing parents.
Right, right.
I'm actually forgiving parents, so to speak, and that's what everybody misses, at least everybody who wants to miss it, misses about what I talk about in Our Truth.
What I talk about in Our Truth is parents are betrayed by intellectuals.
Of course parents can't invent ethics from the ground up, right?
Right. Right.
So when I talk about parenting as universally bad as a result of parents not having a rational understanding of morality, I'm actually not attacking him, right?
Of course, right. I'm actually trying to empathize with him.
Saying, look, it's not your fault.
You don't have the tools. And I'm trying to give you the tools.
Right? I'm not damning parenting.
I'm trying to improve parenting.
UPB is the most important parenting manual that I will ever write, right?
Right. Because it gives parents a way to talk about ethics with their children, right?
without having to lie and use force and bully.
So the dream...
Ah, I swear to God, the unconscious is a total stone genius in all of us, right?
The dream shows how your father reacts to sympathy and empathy and help.
Right.
And how did you feel when your father shot off the radio and started angrily and bitterly mocking me?
Almost pity.
Pity.
Thank you.
Go on. Um...
I... Like, just the sense that it was so...
needless and pathetic and like the sense of futility and Right. Helplessness, bitterness, loss, self-hatred.
It's so petty, right?
Right, right. I mean, he's not taking to a mountaintop with a megaphone and raging against philosophy, right?
Which, although insane, would at least have some grandeur to it, right?
He's like...
Right?
It's all that sort of little shit, right?
Right. And the sense, I think you're communicating to me, and tell me if this is right, the sense of your father's smallness?
Yeah. That is different from being under his thumb, right?
Because you're running from this tornado the whole time.
It's going to kill me. It's going to kill me.
I can't get away. Nobody cares.
Nobody notices. I've got no time for empathy.
I've got to run, right?
Right. But then when you see the tornado from a tall vantage point, you no longer feel fear and you can care for others, right?
And when you can see your father for the petty little man he is, he's no longer as scary, right?
I mean, you don't talk about fear of your father at the end at all, right?
Right. But he's just this petty little idiot, right?
Frightened and foolish and obvious, if that makes sense.
Yeah. I think that is the equivalent of standing at the top of the building and looking at the tornado, right?
You see the destructiveness You see how the visibility of it tears down the stories, right?
Right. And it gives you empathy.
Not perfect empathy, right?
Because you don't notice that the kid doesn't want to be found, right?
But a lot more empathy than you've had anywhere else in the dream.
And of course, perfect empathy is not possible.
I'm just pointing it out, right?
Right. Right. Because you're still running the parent's agenda when you're trying to find this kid who obviously doesn't want to be found, right?
Right, right, right. But so what, right?
I mean, we all have a journey to go in that.
It's a never-ending thing, right?
To become more empathetic. Right.
Now, tell me... I've been talking for a bit here.
Tell me what...
I want to make sure I keep the thread of what you're feeling and experiencing.
Um... I think that interpretation, it really connected with me when you said the tornado was kind of predatory in a sense, but was destroying blindly.
That's when I got the real connection, I guess.
To your dad's anger or to something else?
To my dad's rage, yeah.
Right, because it's not personal.
That's what I'm saying. It's blind. It's not personal to you.
It's not personal to me, right?
He's mocking me, but not because of anything to do with me, right?
Right. Right, and of course, blindness is a theme, like, just throughout the dream.
How so? Well, the, you know, the...
The Persian family is blind to their son, and everybody is kind of blind to the danger around them, and that sort of thing.
Right, right, right.
And your dad, fundamentally at the end, is blind to how he appears to you, right?
Which is obviously dysfunctional.
Right, right.
And your feelings?
Um...
just when I think of of that the part with the pettiness just intense really deep sadness and
When I think of the part when I'm on top of the building, yeah, I get sadness from that, but also I just get this sense of...
of, like, wonder, or...
I don't know, it's like...
Clarity? Yeah, clarity.
There's just this sense about the dream that I got that was like this sense of new possibilities or something.
Yes, well look, I mean, sorry, yes!
Sorry about your ear. But if the buildings are that fragile, they have to go anyway, right?
Right. I mean, if the stories are that fragile, they have to go, right?
I mean, no matter what we replace them with, anything that fragile can't last anyway, right?
Right. Yeah, and... Also, when I think of that scene, there's just so much wrapped up in it.
Also, there's just this sense of hugeness about it.
It's not just about my history for some reason.
No, for every reason.
For every reason.
The deeper you go, the more you connect.
The deeper you go into yourself, the more you connect with humanity as a whole.
Right, right. People think that going inwards is leaving the world.
No. Going inwards is touching the world.
It's getting closer to the world.
Because it is in our deepest experiences that we are the most human with each other.
Right. So this is not just your story.
That is part of the empathy that the dream is.
Is giving you that this is not just your story.
This is a universal story.
Surviving the storms of petty parenting.
Learning empathy after being treated with brutality.
Is that not the journey that we as a species are struggling so hard to achieve?
Right, right.
Because the other thing that the dream tells you, I think...
It's that you're the only one you know who is this hungry for life.
Because everybody else kind of...
Yeah, well, there's a twister coming, but I'm sure that's a death wish, right?
Right. And this is true of the families that you see as well, right?
The parents say, oh my god, these Persian parents, they say, oh my god, our child, our child, our child, right?
But they've got him on a fucking boat when a huge tornado was coming.
Right. They're not taking care of him at all.
These people who are like, oh, one of my family members is in a van, right?
The stories have collapsed.
Well, why the fuck aren't you in a shelter?
Exactly, yeah. And is this not what we see all the time with families, right?
God, a guy posted this two days ago.
I don't know if you read it. Got an email from my sister, he said.
She's like, I love you so much.
You are a treasure. You are a wonder.
You are a... Great person.
I wish I had you in my life more.
You're super special, genius, wonderful, blah, blah, blah, right?
Right, yeah, I saw that.
Right? And he's like, oh yeah, we've barely spoken in 12 years, right?
Yeah. But isn't this what people say?
They don't give a shit about family members until the defu comes along.
And suddenly it's like, ah, you know?
Right, exactly. You get treated like crap by your family, and then you say, okay.
It's like every abusive relationship on the goddamn planet, right?
Guy beats his wife, she leaves him, and suddenly he's like, oh, I'll bring you roses.
Oh, I miss you so much. Oh, you're the best thing ever, right?
Right. And also, it's like somebody else on the board...
What's going on for them?
I don't know if I can use names, but they see the disaster coming and they do nothing about it.
Oh yeah, I think I posted about that, right?
The disaster is coming, it's like a train at night with a big beam of light and everyone just stands on the track, right?
And then they get hit and they cry, random disaster, right?
Right. So, the interesting thing, in my view, is that even the sadness...
Of the families who lose loved ones is itself a story as well.
Yeah. Because if they cared so much for these people, they would not expose them to this terrible danger, this mind-bending tornado, right?
Right, and I guess that's the most tragic part, that it's not inevitable.
It's not inevitable. And the horror only strikes people, and I don't know the degree to whether it's real or not, but the horror only strikes people after the disaster is irrevocable, right?
Right. And I've always said, right, that the devils that are the worst...
Don't give us the emotional reaction until it's too late, right?
They hide it from us. They distract us with petty little things, right?
Then when the disaster has struck, we get the full horror.
But even that...
But, you know, we get the feelings later.
Everyone gets the feelings later when it's too late and it's too much, right?
Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly the sort of trajectory that my defu took.
I mean, with the rage and then just everything, yeah.
Right. So, I mean, it's a fantastic dream.
Obviously, you can look at it six different ways from Sunday.
What I've talked about here, or what we've talked about here, is one angle to it, right?
But, I mean, you could definitely spend some time thinking about this dream, working with the associations and so on.
But, I mean, thanks for posting it, and thanks for the conversation about it.
I mean, it's an incredible dream.
And this just sitting in our brains, right?
And then, bam, up it comes.
The mind is...
The ultimate fun park, right?
With some scary rides too, but it is an incredible place to live.
Right. Yeah.
The only thing I keep thinking of is why was this important now?
You mean why is it happening now?
Yeah, why...
Why did my unconscious decide to lay this on me now?
That kind of thing. Well, you'd have to trace, and it probably would be quite complex, but you would have to trace the themes that are the most resonant for you in the dreams and trace what happened in the day or two or three beforehand.
That would have triggered these things, whether it was the meditation.
Look, the meditation is basically saying it's safe, right?
I'm bigger than my feelings.
I'm not afraid of my feelings anymore.
I'm not going to view my feelings like a caged tiger.
Right? So that, you know, when you go down, down comes up, right?
It rises. You don't go down and it's not like a basement.
The unconscious is not like a basement, right?
It's like you're drilling for oil, and when you hit oil, right?
Yeah. It's not a museum we go down and root around with according to our will, right?
True. The unconscious is something where we go down and it erupts up to us.
I mean, Christ, 1,400 podcasts, I should know, right?
Yeah.
The thing I keep thinking of is because the significant things that happened during the day before was around speaking the truth.
Can you post where your videos are?
The ones you said you wrote, you did some videos on platonic epistemology leading to dictatorship?
Yeah. Post them, like, in the chat?
Just post them in the thread where your dream is, so that we can see them.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. There may be something in there.
There may be something in there. Platonic is a word that we use for non-sexual love, right?
Platonic love? Yeah.
Right, so, and again, this is all just nonsense in my head, right?
But love leading to dictatorship?
Love dependence leading to dictatorship?
May have something to do with the dream?
But I'd have to see the videos to see whether, again, it's all just nonsense, right?
Well, I don't know.
It was just basically reiterating your thesis.
I mean, that's all it is.
And tell me, I always think it's very interesting to figure out what causes this, but tell me why you think it matters fundamentally?
What matters? Why you had the dream now rather than a week ago or a month ago or a month from now.
I do think it matters.
You could be right, but why do you think it matters?
Um...
All right, let me ask it another way.
No, and my concern is that you're going to go in hot pursuit of what caused it rather than process it.
As a way of avoiding the dream.
Okay, yeah. That's my concern.
Like, if the dream were here, and we said, Dear dream, do you care if we figure out why you came along?
What would the dream say?
Um... No.
No. The dream doesn't care why it happened.
And it doesn't care whether you know why it happened.
Doesn't mean it's not fun to think about.
What does the dream want?
If the dream is a character, what does the dream want you to do?
Because the first thing the dream wanted you to do was post it on the board, right?
Right. That much we know, because you posted it on the board, right?
Yeah. And probably your dream was saying, this is probably going to hook Steph.
Put a little bait on it.
Come on, there's father stuff, there's twister stuff.
He's in the dream. He's got to do it, right?
He's going to do it. Bait that hook, right?
I know he hasn't done a dream for a while, but, you know, this is a dream that's showing a little leg, right?
Yes. So that probably also was what the dream wanted to talk to me, right?
Right.
So what does the dream want you to do?
With the dream.
Understand it?
Understand it?
Oh, that sounded willing.
Right. Because let me tell you what you don't want to do, Colleen, in my humble opinion.
What you don't want to do is this dream is a form of twister in your life as well.
And you don't want to be somebody who's like, dum-dee-dum, right?
Because that's exactly what the dream is telling you as well, right?
When something this powerful comes along, when something this huge comes into your life, right, don't worry about your footwear, right?
Right, yeah, okay, I understand.
Yes. I could explain it another 1,200 different ways if you like.
You know, I sometimes think people say, I understand, just so that I'll stop explaining, whether they do or not.
Like, oh, I'll listen to the podcast later, maybe I'll make it sense later, right?
No, I do get it.
The only thing, it's just like, I have...
Ah, I know why Greg was in the dream.
Because you've become a butt person too!
No! Yes, you have!
Okay, yes, butt!
One more thing and...
Sorry, go on. It's just that I had so much excitement about it, and it's...
So, I guess...
I don't know, I... I was kind of expecting it to be saying something about my situation now, but I don't know.
Sorry you don't see this as saying something about your situation now?
now?
You don't think that the dream ends with you having immense empathy for humanity?
Recognizing the true self in you and the true self in the world?
Is that not enough for you?
Do you want more?
Do you want to gain the ability to fly?
How about see-through time? Would that be enough for you?
Yeah, um...
It is about now.
Okay, yeah. No, you were just pacifying me there, right?
Okay, yeah. I know, I know, I can tell.
Even without the facial features and the eye rolling, I can tell, right?
No, okay, I'm having trouble connecting to that for some reason.
You are standing on top of a building seeing universal parental rage tear through a city, destroying families that mimic a sorrow they could have avoided.
And you don't think that's about the world as it is in the present?
You don't think that you're seeing so deeply into the soul of the planet?
You don't think you're seeing the agony that FDR shines a light on, we all do, of the world?
You don't think that you're seeing into the heart of superstitious religion and war and abuse?
And murder? Yeah.
This is universal. That's why the dream is so huge.
That's why the dream has primal forces in it.
That's why the dream is about a whole city.
That's why you can see everything.
That's why you can zoom in here and there.
Because when you get this knowledge into your head and into your heart, that during this conversation about a million children have been beaten and another half million of them have been raped and another 10 million of them have been screamed at and terrified that this is the world that we live in and I don't mean to inflict horror on you but this is the reality of the world that we live in that's what drives me to work so hard to do whatever I can To try and help it and solve it that you have seen from the top of the mountain,
you have seen to the four corners of the earth what is happening in the world.
Because you are genuinely and deeply feeling what happened to you.
You can see through the diamond-hard biosphere of the family into what is happening to the children, which is what the psychohistory stuff is all about.
The world is an effect of childhood.
And you're seeing that in your dream, not just for you, but for a whole city.
Right. We avoid empathy because it's painful as hell.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. Yes. And I say that with all due respect because I had my head so far up my own ass I actually met my own head again.
So I mean this with all due respect and sensitivity to the necessity of this phase where we abandon the world and we go inward.
And then through going inward we emerge into the real world.
The real world can only be gained, can only be achieved, can only be reached by tunneling through the self.
Right. Because we live in a fantasy world, right?
We live in stories.
We live in mythology. We live in patriotism and religion and the cult of the family and the virtue of the state.
We live in the matrix, right?
We only get to the real world by going inwards.
We burrow. You know, we all had this thing when we were a kid, we'll dig a hole so much, so deep we'll come out in China, right?
Go into the backyard and you start digging.
You dig so much and come out into China.
Well, we dig into ourselves and we come out in reality, right?
Blinking, wet, squalling, right?
In pain, crying.
It's a rebirth, right? Yeah.
And it means that you can see light through the tunnel of the self, which is reality.
Empathy, connection, depth, sensitivity, strength, courage, nobility.
The stuff that you want so much your life to be made of, right?
You have always talked about this, that you want your life to be something grand and terrible and beautiful.
Right.
Well, ask and you shall receive whether you like it or not.
Right.
I mean...
Yeah. And the terrible is not your life, the terrible, I just wanted to clarify, the terrible is seeing the world as it is, right?
Of course, yeah.
Which is a beautiful and terrible place.
I'm ambivalent about it, right?
Right. But with hope.
Right. Okay, thank you so much. I mean, that brings so much more clarity to it.
You're welcome. I mean, thanks for posting it.
Do thank the dream for me.
It was very kind. Does the dream think I did a reasonably good job?
Yes. Good.
Good, because, you know, I don't want the dream to come over and stop beating me up at night, so I just wanted to make sure that the dream was satisfied with the work that I put in.
And you'll know, if we got the dream wrong, you'll just have it again.
Don't worry about that. You'll get another twister and we'll try it again, right?
Because when I kept getting my dream wrong for about, oh, 10 fucking years, it just kept coming back, right?
So you'll know if you've gotten what the dream is trying to tell you if you don't have it again, right?
But you've got to meet it halfway and put the work in.
Okay, right. Yeah, all I want to do is, like, process it right now.
Right. Forget about the origins.
You will get the origins of the dream through processing the dream, not by leaving the dream to go look for its source, in my opinion, right?
But that would be the thing to do.
And great job.
Great job. I certainly felt that I think that you got a connection out of it.
And is that reasonable to say?
Yes, for sure.
And is this postable?
Is it what? Is it postable, the dream podcast?
It's been a while since I've been mocked for my addiction to dream podcasts.
Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, we won't send a copy to your dad, though, because we know what he'll do, right?
Right. All right, thanks.
And if you can post the videos that you did just before you had to stream, that would be great, too.
Okay. All right, thanks, Colleen.
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