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Aug. 18, 2023 - Sean Hannity Show
34:12
Governor Kristi Noem - August 18th, Hour 2
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All right, our two Sean Hannity show, 800-941-Sean.
If you want to be a part of the program on this Friday, we're going to have a little musical hour in the next hour.
John Rich, he's got his song, then Jason Aldee's Dean's song, and this viral tune that it basically has taken the country by storm.
Now, number one on the Apple charts, just like Jason Aldean's tune when it came under fire became number one.
Anyway, it's Richmond North of Richmond.
And this guy, Oliver Anthony, I just, Linda, is this true?
I just read that, in fact, he may have been offered like a huge record deal and he turned it down.
So the irony of all ironies is he's not getting one offer.
He's getting many offers.
And John Rich said it best, and he said, had he been on a record label, he never would have made the song because they never would have let him because they're too woke.
Wow.
That's so good.
Anyway, John Rich will break down what's going on in the music world on this Friday.
Some amazing things are happening in South Dakota and they just keep unfolding.
And I'm just fascinated by it.
And Governor Christy Noam has started her Freedom Works Here effort and that's bringing people.
They have more jobs in the state.
They have the lowest unemployment of any state in the Union.
They have more jobs, high-paying career jobs than they can fill.
And people now are beginning to flock all the way to South Dakota in, you know, in the search of a better life, and they're finding it.
And she just came out with the latest ed.
Now, remember, she was a dentist, and she's been an electrician and a plumber.
Well, she was a plumber and doing all these jobs and basically saying, come here.
Anyway, we're going to talk to the governor in a second, but she's promoting this nationwide workforce recruitment and it is working this time as an electrician.
Listen.
Let's look on the bright side.
South Dakota stayed open for business during the pandemic.
Now we've got more jobs than people.
So I'm filling in until you get here.
South Dakota is the freest state in America and the best state to live, work, and raise a family.
We accept most out-of-state professional licenses, and we have over 20,000 open jobs, including for electricians.
South Dakota, Freedom Works Here.
Oh, no.
I'm a lousy electrician.
All right.
She's been a dentist, a plumber, a welder, and now the electrician.
Joining us now this Friday, Governor Christy Noam of the great state of South Dakota.
Governor, you crack me up, but this campaign is working.
How are you doing?
I'm doing great.
It is working.
I have not tackled construction like you have, Sean, but we are proving in these commercials that I am not the best person to fill these jobs, that there may be people across the country that would be interested in having our quality of life and the high-paying career they've always dreamed of.
You know, that's the thing.
And when I got into the first initial details with you, I don't usually get shocked.
I think I've heard everything in all the years I've been doing radio and TV, but you really shocked me.
And in as much as how great these opportunities are.
Now, you can't really understate the importance of professionals that have licenses in other states and how difficult it often is for them when they move to another state to get they now have to go through an entirely different process to practice their trade.
And that can take in some cases even up to a year or longer.
That's not the case with your Freedom Works here effort and you're incentivizing all these people to come.
Tell us why that's not a requirement.
Well, we just recognize their licenses from their states wherever they're coming from.
And that was a real challenge for years in South Dakota.
If someone wanted to come to our state and be a nurse, if they wanted to be a teacher, if they wanted to be a real estate agent, it took months, sometimes a year, to get them qualified to take up that profession here in South Dakota.
And we just said enough is enough.
Many times the requirements were in sync, and we could recognize their license and let them get to work the next week.
And it's been phenomenal since we made that change when I became governor.
And now we are actually paying for people to get trained if they don't have any license.
We will pay for that administrative fee and that training while they're on the job so that they can go in and become a career and be what they've always dreamed of.
So for instance, welders can go work somewhere, be trained to do some types of welding while they're taking classes, and we're paying for those administrative classes so they can get a full welding certificate and move from a $20 an hour job into a $30,000, $40 an hour job.
And we're doing that in all professions.
In fact, we even have 100 teachers now that are not certified teachers, but they've been working in classrooms as teachers' aides or assisting in classrooms.
We've told them this year, we are going to get you trained and certified to be a teacher while you're serving in that classroom.
You will end up with your certificate, and someday soon you'll have your own classroom to teach in.
I mean, that's pretty amazing.
And this is what really blew me away.
Last time, well, the first time you were on radio talking to me about it, and you were on TV last night talking about it, you told me something that just blew me away.
80 grand for apprentice programs?
That's insane to me.
That's an amazing opportunity.
Yeah, I think that's what shocks most people, too, is they think that they have to give up a job, give up an income in order to be able to take on the training requirements that are involved.
And we have streamlined that.
In fact, many times these folks can get into a job that pays them a good wage and also gives them health benefits or a retirement package while they're being trained to get that certification.
So, you know, we have people that are in their late 20s, 30s, 40s that maybe have a responsibility to take care of a family and pay bills.
They can't quit their job and go back to school.
Well, now they don't have to.
If they come to South Dakota, you can continue to earn your wage and take care of your family while you move into that next career.
You know, I know oftentimes it's a little scary for people to pick up, pack, and move, and start their life over again.
But honestly, the fact that I was willing to move in my life and I was raised in Long Island, New York.
I lived five years in Rhode Island, five years in California, five, I'm sorry, two years in Alabama, four years in Georgia until I got hired by Fox.
And I'll tell you, I think it was one of the best things to ever happen to me in my life because I got to understand that New York is not the be-all-end-all, Governor.
It's the last place, frankly, I want to live at this point in my life.
I mean, you can't safely walk down the streets.
You certainly can't go on the subway in New York City.
Got to help you.
Yeah, no, I think that's one thing that COVID taught every family is they don't want to live like that anymore.
They want to live somewhere where their kids can go and have neighbors to play with, where the laws are enforced, where they still have a community they can be a part of.
People go to church in the morning on Sunday morning and they take care of each other when they hit a challenging time.
That's what South Dakota still is.
When people come here to visit, they go home and get their families and decide to move back because they can't believe how friendly the people are.
People think about our weather, but people that usually last for a couple months a year, but it also, the benefits far outweigh any challenges that January and February might bring us.
So the number one state that people are moving from since we've been tracking through this marketing campaign is California, which is no surprise.
Although we thought most of them would be coming from Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota.
Minnesota's in the top five, but the top five needs to be.
Well, this kind of blew me away because we now have data.
I mean, when you launched this program, it caught my attention and I really liked it.
And I looked at these numbers.
It's pretty amazing.
Since that first time you were on my show, my understanding is your Freedom Works Here ads have been viewed by 460 million people or 460 million times.
And now you have how many people have moved into the state?
Because I see that you have the most applications from California, 847, Texas, 361.
Florida is third with 360.
That kind of surprised me because they're taking in an influx of new residents every day.
Minnesota was fourth, and New York was fifth.
That's pretty amazing.
It is amazing.
And this is 5,000 families that are in the process of moving to South Dakota just in a two-month advertising campaign, telling them about the opportunities that we have.
We've never had a marketing campaign that has been so successful in the history of our state.
I even think larger states probably wouldn't have had a response like this before.
And it talks about showing a fun ad that gets people's attention, that's a little positive when you turn on the news.
Sometimes it all seems negative, gets their attention.
And then we start working with them individually to answer their questions about schools, about communities, what kind of town they want to be on.
Connecting them with those employers, it's a hands-on experience that actually helps get them comfortable with moving our family across the country.
So those numbers are incredible.
We've started the campaign saying we have 25,000 open jobs.
Now we're saying 20,000 open jobs.
Our businesses are excited because they have people that are ready to go to work.
And that's one of the benefits of this campaign, Sean, that we don't always talk about all the time.
But we need people in this country to start educating the next generation on the importance of work, on the benefits that work brings, that it's not good to live off a government program.
You don't get self-respect that way.
You don't learn discipline that helps you be successful.
It's better for us to get up and have a purpose every day because it helps us be healthier physically, but spiritually and mentally as well.
So that's what all of our messaging is to folks after we're connecting with them is how beneficial it can be to be a part of our state.
You know, Governor Kathy Hochl of New York recently made comments about conservatives.
And I mean, it's just so insulting.
Her predecessor, Andrew Cuomo, once said this.
Let me play it for you.
Their problem is not me and the Democrats.
Their problem is themselves.
Who are they?
Are they these extreme conservatives who are right to life, a poor assault weapon, anti-gay?
Is that who they are?
Because if that's who they are, and if they are the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York.
Because that's not who New Yorkers are.
And then he said this about taxing the rich.
Tax the rich, tax the rich, tax the rich.
We did.
Now, God forbid the rich leave.
You know, what's amazing.
Okay, so I happen to be pro-life.
I understand my fellow New Yorkers are not.
It's now a state issue, and they outnumber Republicans by a big number.
Yes, I'm pro-Second Amendment.
I'm not anti-anybody.
I'm pro-freedom.
I think what adults do is their business.
I'm actually leave people alone, libertarian-like.
But I mean, you know, after he made those comments, I'm like, I have to go to another state.
I'm not wanted in the state I was born in.
Yeah, he essentially told you to leave and get out.
You know, you claim that.
But they take an awful lot of my money every year, Governor.
I can tell you that, and I pay every penny of it.
I know, I bet you do.
You know, until you played those clips, I almost forgot how terrible he was.
He was such a horrible governor.
I remember one time George Stephanopoulos asked him to give me advice on what I should be doing during COVID.
And I remember just thinking, that's how messed up even some of our media networks are that aren't giving people the truth.
Anyways, that's exactly right.
Then that's why people are leaving.
They know they're not wanted.
They know they're not safe.
They know the government is taking their money and wasting it, and they want a different life.
I'm glad there's still places in this country where they can go.
There are still a few states where they can have a little bit of freedom still.
I love the fact that you're doing this.
Click break right back more with South Dakota Governor Christy Noam than your phone calls.
Hey there, I'm Mary Catherine Hamm.
And I'm Carol Markowitz.
We've been in political media for a long time.
Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.
That's why we started Normally, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.
We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.
We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.
So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass.
You're our kind of people.
Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday and Thursday.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen.
Hey there, I'm Mary Catherine Hamm.
And I'm Carol Markowitz.
We've been in political media for a long time.
Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.
That's why we started Normally, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.
We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.
We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.
So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass.
You're our kind of people.
Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday and Thursday.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen.
We continue now.
South Dakota Governor Christy Noam is with us.
Her new initiative is called Freedom Works Here, and she is promoting high-paying career jobs and apprenticeships in the state of South Dakota.
I mean, apprenticeships at $80,000?
Wow, I never heard of that before.
As we continue with the governor.
What do you make of the Republican primary generally?
I'm not going to ask you the usual questions I've asked you.
What do you make of what's going on?
What do you make of the indictments of Donald Trump and the weaponization of the DOJ and what we're discovering?
What do you make of the lack of interest and curiosity?
You know, Joe Biden lies to the country repeatedly about his relationship with his son as it relates to his foreign business dealings.
Clearly, we now have all the evidence that Joe Biden benefited financially from his son's foreign business deals, some of our top geopolitical foes.
You look at all of it together, what do you think?
Well, Biden is proving, and his administration and his DOJ is proving, that there's no equal protection under the law, that citizens aren't equal, that if you are of their political affiliation and their government control mandate that they want to pursue, then there's different rules for you.
So the hypocrisy is what's resonating with people across the country.
I've talked to people all across this country, and that's what they're angry about.
If they aren't thrilled with President Trump, they're so angry by seeing this corruption that is supposed to be within our justice system and discouraged by it that they know they need somebody tough in there that will actually fix it.
So, you know, I've got a lot of people in this primary that I know that are nice people.
I'm just, most of them, I haven't seen them fight when it's been important.
And President Trump is a fighter.
Right now, he's the only one that can win.
I don't see that changing in the near future.
But these other folks, if they aren't in a race and they know they can't win, I would wonder why they're still in there.
They're in there for a different purpose other than saving our country.
And all of us need to be on board with doing all we can to save our country right now.
Anyway, I got to give you huge props, Governor.
I love this program.
And, you know, if you're out there, how do people get in touch with this and get the process started with Freedom Works here and this effort to find workers and high-paying career job opportunities in South Dakota?
Yeah, absolutely.
Get on FreedomWorksHere.com and we will connect you with all the information you need, answer your questions.
But just since we aired this new ad, Sean, after your show, I think that night, we had 200 more people apply to move to South Dakota and connect with our folks in our Department of Labor to start working through the process.
So, you know, it makes a difference.
If people know there are opportunities, they're grabbing them right now because they want a different life.
So freedomworkshere.com will get them started.
And I've even done a few phone calls to some of these people myself and encouraged them to come.
I think it's great to talk to these Americans.
They need to.
It's kind of nice to hear from an elected official that is actually, you know, that gives a darn about people's lives and their futures and is providing them opportunities like this.
It's kind of refreshing, Governor.
Great job.
Appreciate you just sharing it with us.
Absolutely.
You have a great day, Sean.
You too.
800-941-SHAWN if you want to be a part of the program as we continue.
Mainstream press talking about this stuff.
Sean Hannity is on the radio.
Hi, 25 to the top of the hour, 800-941.
Sean, if you want to be a part of the program, quick reminder: you want your kids to get a good education.
School now back in session and soon to be back in session for others.
You want your kids, you think they'll be learning about the founding principles that made this the greatest country God gave man, the freest country on earth?
Well, will they learn about what are called natural rights, inalienable rights that are God-given?
Rights don't come from government, they come from God.
You think they'll get an honest accounting of our nation's history at your kids' school?
Well, if your kids are going to Hillsdale College, the answer is, yeah, they're going to get all of that.
And by the way, these days, in addition to teaching college students, Hillsdale has now extended their teaching to K-12 students, lifelong learners like you and me.
And if you're not already doing so, one way to expand your mind and learn the principles that make this country the greatest country ever, especially when we follow the Constitution.
Anyway, they have their free digest of liberty.
It's called Imprimus, and you can sign up and get it for free.
Just go to the special website we have set up at Seanforhillsdale.com.
That's S-E-A-N-F-O-R Hillsdale.com.
You're going to love it.
It's interesting, insightful, and it's free.
And the best and smartest and conservative and constitutional thought out there.
Anyway, get it for free.
Sign up now.
Go to this website, Seanforhillsdale.com, S-E-A-N-F-O-R Hillsdale.com.
Anyway, so, you know, all this devastation in Maui out in Hawaii, by the way, Hawaii, I've only been there once.
Beautiful.
I mean, it's definitely worth a trip at some point in your life if you can get away and you can afford a vacation.
I know a lot of people can't right now, but I've been there once.
Actually, it was a working vacation for me.
But I loved it.
I had a great time there.
And I met wonderful people there.
And anyway, and, you know, Joe Biden, you know, sets off this, what should be a media firestorm.
This is his Katrina moment.
You know, answers no when asked about the deadliest U.S. fire in more than a century because he was headed to the Delaware beach, you know, and he did it again yesterday, refused to comment yesterday on what's going on in Hawaii.
The death toll now is up to 111 people, and we're missing some 1,300 people.
You know, one guy yesterday, can you tell us about your Hawaii trip, sir?
Reporter asking on Air Force One.
And anyway, the president goes, no, not now.
I'm going to be leaving.
I'll be there on Monday.
Okay.
And the earlier excuse was, well, I didn't want to get in the way.
Excuse me, the response has been agonizing.
There are 1,300 families that have no idea if their loved one is going to make it home alive.
They don't know where they are.
And it's gone on day after day after day.
And the reaction has been cold.
It has been distant.
It has not lived up to any standard that we would expect in the United States.
Now, if it was a Republican president, it'd be a very different response.
You know, he's asked, you know, any new details on the Maui trip?
Listen.
Can you tell us about your Hawaii trip, sir?
No, not now.
I'm going to be leaving, and I'll be there on Monday.
Why is it leaving officer on the family issue?
Thank you, Mr. President.
Then he asked the press, the mob, the compliant media mob, to leave.
Politely asked the press to leave.
Thank you for coming in.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
I mean, it really is just unbelievable and so obnoxious.
I frankly am even stunned at the cold, callous reaction.
But Democrats like the claim that they're the most compassionate party ever.
Anyway, let's go to Bill is in Maryland.
Bill, how are you?
Glad you called, sir.
Thank you, Sean.
Thank you for taking my call.
Sean, you know, there's been a lot of talk, yourself included, about whether Donald Trump is going to be able to get a fair trial in these various jurisdictions.
And most of the focus has been voting on the voting outcomes in the presidential election, which is fair.
But less has been said about possible grounds for judicial recusal.
Some, and Trump has called for it, but there hasn't been a lot of specifics, just a lot of generalities.
But I came across something the other day that I found absolutely eye-opening about Judge Chutkin.
And this is obviously the D.C. case, and some things she has said.
And this is from a BBC article that I came across.
So this is published in legitimate media.
Some things that she has said to.
Wait a minute.
When you say that, I don't consider the BBC legitimate media necessarily.
I'm not sure why you're giving them such high regards.
I mean, I would say that it is pretty abusively biased left, but okay, I would think we're legitimate media too.
I'm a member of the press also.
Of course you are.
But fair enough.
But they published a quote from her to a January 6th defendant.
And keep in mind, she is going central to the trial before her will be Donald Trump's state of mind and whether he believed he had actually lost the election.
And she said to this defendant, it is not standing up to America to stand up for one man who knows full well that he lost.
That's a clear and unequivocal statement.
She's predetermined an issue central to the trial that's going to be held.
Well, she's going to have to say that.
Now, this is what most people don't understand.
And I went into great depth and detail this week on this.
Most of these charges, you have to show criminal intent, that the person that you're accusing of this crime, this racketeering effort, knew that what they were doing was wrong, that they knew it, but they did it anyway, and they had the intent to break the law.
That's going to, you know, this is one of the reasons I did not like hate crimes legislation because I thought, hey, you know, how do you punish people?
How do you ascertain what their motive was for doing anything?
Now, maybe somebody writes a screed or a manifesto and you put the two together and you say, okay, obviously this motivated the person.
To me, it's almost irrelevant.
If you commit murder, you get charged with murder.
And if you murder somebody in cold blood, you should get the penalty.
And you want to give added time.
Well, look at the case of James Byrd.
That was the infamous ad used in the 2000 election.
Now, George W. Bush's governor supported the death penalty for the evil people that dragged this innocent man to his death behind a car.
It was horrific.
And he supported the death penalty in that case, as I would have.
And anyway, then there was an ad.
The Democratic Party got a family member, you know, to cut this ad and say George Bush didn't support hate crimes legislation.
And it was like my father was killed all over again.
And it's just unfair because he wanted the death penalty for this evil act.
You know, what else?
At that point, does it matter what the thinking was of the people behind that act?
It was evil.
They killed an innocent human being.
I believe you kill an innocent human being.
If you can prove it beyond any doubt at all, you get the death penalty.
If you don't have that kind of proof, the Innocence Project has kind of convinced me you've got to be careful with the death penalty.
Because there have been too many times that new forensic science has proven people put in jail that were innocent.
And we can't risk that with the death penalty.
But if you have a videotape of somebody killing somebody in cold blood, yeah, give them the death penalty.
The people responsible for 9-11, I'd give them the death penalty.
What Joe Biden is doing there, I don't know.
Absolutely.
But the point here is, Sean, she has already made up her mind on this issue before she has heard a bit of evidence in the trial of Donald Trump.
She can't hear this case.
She has to recuse herself.
I mean, and you're talking about the judge.
Yes, she made this statement in open court on the record, disseminated to the media.
And isn't it ironic that she's issuing orders warning Trump about not saying things that might taint a jury pool when she's making these statements, again, in open court.
Well, she also said you can't compare the riots on January 6th to the summer riots of 2020, as if that there was a reason or a justification for that.
And I'm sorry, I disagree.
Unlawful acts are unlawful acts, period.
Listen, I don't disagree with you, and she's given out the harshest sentences to people that have gone before her court on issues regarding January 6th, but I don't think there's going to be a recusal, nor do I think there's going to be a change of venue.
And as I've been saying, I would anticipate, you know, the likelihood is probably going to be in New York, in Washington, Fulton County, the odds are very high that Donald Trump can't get a fair trial and that his legal remedy would be on appeal.
And I think that those will be real cases.
I think it's a very high bar that the statute that he was charged under in Georgia, it's very hard bar to meet.
I would argue, having interviewed Donald Trump as often as I have, that he passed a lie detector test if you asked him if he still believed it today that he won the 2020 election.
Well, I certainly, I personally think they should make the motion for recusal.
And there's a bigger issue here.
These comments aren't going to be limited to Tanya Chuck and in that court.
Every liberal in that court is going to have made these kind of comments, and that's most of that court.
And does it, could there be enough there, if you go through all of these hearings, that it actually supports a motion to change venue, because you have had so many prejudicial comments coming from so many judges.
Boesberg has called Trump a charlatan from the bench that an appeals court would say, this case does not belong here.
I just hope Trump's defense team is looking at this because I think it's really potential fertile ground.
I agree it's generally a long shot.
You are correct.
But these comments are severe.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, 31 defendants have gone before this particular judge, and she sentenced every one of them to at least some jail time, even in cases, by the way, where the prosecutors were not even requesting it.
And she's, you know, she has been very candid when sentencing defendants to heavy punishments.
It's not patriotism.
It's not standing up for America to stand up for one man who knows full well that he lost.
That's the quote that you're referring to, instead of the Constitution he was trying to subvert.
Yeah, I would say she's already made up her mind.
But I've been telling everybody that, and you're just adding more information that proves my point.
Bill, thank you.
All right, back to our busy phones this Friday.
Thomas New York next on the Sean Hannity Show.
Thomas, happy Friday, sir.
Happy Friday, Sean.
Sean, I haven't heard anyone in the media ask the Georgia Attorney General and the other Georgia District Attorney why didn't they join Fannie Willis in indicting Trump?
You know, the media should be asking the Attorney General that question of Georgia and also the other district attorney.
You know, did they look at the case?
You know, what was their reasoning for not joining District Attorney Fannie Willis in this case?
And I also, I'm not, I can't remember, but I believe District Attorney Willis said that this also happened in other states as well.
So if that's the case, why didn't the other Attorney Generals in other states also join in this as well?
And that's what you need to be asked of these people.
Yeah, well, I will tell you, you know, who was it?
One of the presidential candidates, I forget which one, brought up the idea that, you know, change of venue has got to be, you know, more common if we're going to have equal justice, equal application of our laws.
Does that sound like a fair statement to you?
Oh, no, I absolutely agree, but I'm surprised that nobody has asked the Georgia Attorney General.
The chief law enforcement of the state and the other district attorneys, because this their claim that this also happened in other counties in Georgia, why haven't they joined in?
Why did they look?
Did they investigate what the allegations?
Listen, I thought the process was not handled properly in as much as when they went to Cobb County, and I lived in Georgia, so I know the county breakdown politically, although Cobb County, since I have left, has gone a little more to the left.
However, what remains true is Fulton County, DeKalb County remain pretty solid blue counties in Georgia.
And so, you know, it's, I just, when you have somebody as high-profile as Donald Trump and he's being tried in New York City, where, you know, 12, 13% of the population voted for him, not a very high number, and 5%, a little over 5% in D.C. and 23, 4% in Georgia, Fulton County.
You know, it's kind of hard to get into a jury pool and pick a fair jury.
I think you agree with that too, right?
No, I absolutely agree with you.
So I don't think the other counties, I mean, them weighing in isn't going to matter.
When they did the recount in Cobb County, I thought that was, that's not where we would have expected the trouble.
I mean, I do believe it was Rafsenberger who had previously said that Fulton County had had a long history of electoral problems.
But I think he thought that the system that he put in place was better.
That's my take on it.
That's my read on it.
I don't know the guy.
Anyway, appreciate the call.
Thank you.
800-941 Sean, if you want to be a part of the program, more your calls coming up next hour.
How music now has become front and center in America's woke culture wars?
We're going to check in with John Rich and we'll talk about his song and we'll talk about the Jason Aldean controversy and this new song that has taken the country by storm, now number one on iTunes, Richmond North of Richmond by Oliver Anthony.
A terrific song.
You want smart political talk without the meltdowns?
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I'm Carol Markowitz and I'm Mary Catherine Hamm.
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