Daniel welcomes very special guest Molly Conger of Weird Little Guys (and much renown besides) for the mother of all Cantwell news installments. Much Content Warning. Molly's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/socialistdogmom.bsky.social Weird Little Guys: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-weird-little-guys-201395214 Show Notes: Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay ad-free and independent. Patrons get exclusive access to at least one full extra episode a month plus all backer-only back-episodes. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper/posts Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618&fan_landing=true IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod Daniel's Twitter: @danieleharper Jack's (Locked) Twitter: @_Jack_Graham_ Jack's Bluesky: @timescarcass.bsky.social Daniel's Bluesky: @danielharper.bsky.social IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Writing the American Third Position00:06:32
All right.
And welcome to Idol Speak German, episode 130 something.
I don't know.
I always counted the numbers a long time ago.
And today, from the title, you will know we are turned to one of our perennial favorite topics.
Unfortunately, Jack had something come up and he will not be able to make it with us today.
He's fine.
He's just having a bad night.
And in his stead, I have asked, actually, I asked before this, but we have a guest, a very special guest, someone that has long wanted to get on this podcast.
Welcome, Molly Conger, to Idol Speak German.
I'm so glad to be here for this.
in particular.
I think there really was a moment we were DMing and it just sort of turned into a, okay, we have to talk about that because, oh boy.
I don't know.
So we are going to be discussing Chris Cantwell.
And I think most of our listeners already know who Molly is and knows who Chris Cantwell is.
So we'll kind of go late on this.
But, Ollie, you have a project that, you know, people, I can't imagine that there are many people, but people listening to this might not be aware of what you do over at Widlittle Guys.
So talk to us a little bit about your project, about your podcast.
Yeah, I just started year two of my show, Weird Little Guys.
If you're a listener of I Don't Speak German and you haven't checked out Weird Little Guys, I think you'll like it.
I mean, I'm biased in that, but I think if you like this show, you'll like Weird Little Guys.
They are sort of biographical vignettes about exactly what it says on the tin the kind of guy that's just, he wants to be Hitler, but he's just a little fucking freak.
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And you've covered, I mean, you've covered, I mean, God, give us a rundown just some of the figures.
Because I've listened to every episode.
Actually, pardon me.
I'm too behind because I'm perpetually behind on everything.
Because after the Charlie Kirk thing, I spent like three days doing nothing but listening to Charlie Kirk content.
Oh, no.
I'm so sorry.
Yeah, multiple hours a day of material from Charlie Kirk or about Charlie Kirk.
Yeah, it's been fun.
So I pick movement figures that are sort of a lot of them are lesser known or unknown, even.
I found a couple of guys that I'd never even heard of that there's just nothing out there about.
But I spent three months writing about Dennis Mahon.
The guy who came up in white Aryan resistance who ended up in prison for sending a mail bomb to the diversity office in Arizona.
I spent a couple of months writing about white supremacist terrorism in South Africa in the 80s.
That was a weird journey.
Most recently, I was writing about the American Third Position Party.
Yeah.
Which was.
I'm familiar.
I'm familiar.
You know those guys.
I know the A3P because I listen to James Edwards' podcast every.
I think he's on the board still.
Yes, he is.
He is on the board and he brings a lot of the people.
I think he still refers to it as American Freedom Party sometimes.
So it's.
You know, or was it originally A3P?
It was A3P, and then they changed to AFP.
They're AFP now.
I think he uses it both ways from time to time.
Anyway, you know, I've been listening to James Edwards since like 2016.
So that's a bad ride.
That's, you know, every week, every week.
It used to be every Sunday because he records on Saturdays or, you know, releases on Sunday mornings.
And it was just my Sunday routine for a while.
And now it's not every Sunday, but I've listened to every episode since then.
So I didn't, even when I was writing about American Freedom Party, I didn't listen to any political cesspool.
I can't do it.
I can't do it.
I don't have your stamina.
Well, I.
The way you do it is something that I, you know, I feel like you and I have, you know, complementary skill sets because, like, the way you do it is you go in to look at, like, court documents and archives and recent newspaper stuff.
I mean, tell me what you're sorry, just for me.
I'm just geeking out here, getting to ask you about this.
So I have you in the hot seat now.
I get to implore you.
Tell me, how do you do it?
Like, what's the process?
Because a lot of this stuff, I mean, you've been researching for years and then you just kind of, so I do the same thing.
I've been researching for years and then pops up and I'm like, well, we're talking about this today, you know.
But obviously, you know, what I'm doing is just, You know, listening to these guys incessantly talk, and you're doing something a lot more thorough.
So, I mean, I'm just wondering, you know, what is a typical day for a man?
It's a nightmare.
Yeah, of course it is.
Of course it is.
No, I love to make, I've talked about this before, I like to make a timeline that's sort of my starting point as I make this sort of biographical timeline and I flesh it out.
And so, sometimes by the time I write an episode, I have like a 30 page single spaced bulleted list of every day of a man's life where I can put him on paper.
Wow.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like between newspapers, like genealogical records, like court records, their own public statements, social media, their family social media.
And so I'll have just this bulleted list of every place I can ever like pin down for sure this is where he was and what he was doing.
And then you just sort of go from there.
So, like this week, I'm writing about the episode that just came out today, and then there'll be a second one next week, a part two to that the guy that killed Rockwell.
Yes.
Right.
So, and there's, you know, there's a bit of information about Patler, John Patler, the guy that killed George Lincoln Rockwell.
But I'm sort of trying to piece together from, Because there's no biography about John Patler.
So I read a bunch of biographies of Rockwell and a biography about Dan Burroughs.
And, you know, I'm looking at genealogical records, court records from his brother.
His brother murdered his girlfriend in the 80s.
And they're sort of piecing together from all these like ancillary sources.
Like I read every issue of Stormtrooper magazine from the early 60s.
I'm just, and I don't know what I'm looking for, but I'll know it when I see it.
You know, it's like pornography.
Yeah.
Well, you know, a topic that will probably come up.
A topic that's going to come up.
We're going to be talking about that.
Yeah.
So.
Well, anyway, check out Weird Little Guys.
It's amazing.
It's astonishingly well researched.
I mean, people ask me how I do it, and I'm like, it's difficult.
I get it.
It's a pain every day.
Then I look at what Molly does, and I'm like, I got the easy job.
You know, all I do, I just carry these guys around with me all the time.
I mean, but like meticulously documenting it like that, that's honestly, if there's one thing I wish it was like, I wish it was something I could show people in written form, because some people just resist the podcast format.
I mean, I just don't speak German as so much like it's like we're chatting, you know, about this stuff, you know.
But yeah, I just, I, you know, I, I want there to be like transcripts that I can send people for people who are like, oh, I don't listen to a podcast.
It's like, no, this isn't that kind of podcast.
You know, well, if you know a literary agent, get me a book deal.
Well, you know, yeah, yeah, harder than you think.
Tracking a Libertarian's Ethics00:14:37
Anyway, right.
Okay.
So, um, all that aside, we are here to do something, uh, very important, which is to talk about the most, I, you know, uh, what Jack would probably say, like the most pathetic man we've ever covered on how to speak German.
Um, I mean, it's so pathetic that, like, I stopped talking about him in public because it felt cruel.
And honestly, I, there's going to have to kind of talk through some of this.
And like, look, this podcast is edited.
So if we get into places that are uncomfortable, we get to go through some of this.
The ethics of kicking a man while he's down.
Well, and the ethics of describing some of the things he's done is also like sort of, sort of becomes an issue.
Yeah.
And so I guess in the way that you, you know, I'm asking you to describe people who don't know you, which is one thing.
Now I'm going to ask you just to, I've talked about Chris Catwell enough on this podcast.
Give us your synopsis of who was Chris Cantwell up to about 2023.
Right.
So, this is your first time listening to I Don't Speak German, and you've never heard of Christopher Charles Cantwell.
If you bring audience over, it's entirely possible nobody's heard of Chris Cantwell.
There will be people who never heard of Chris Cantwell.
If you just woke up from a coma that you've been in since before 2017, you may not know the crying Nazi.
Yes, indeed.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I guess, I mean, he was a former libertarian.
He had some trouble with the law as a teenager.
You'll have to put a link in the show notes to the video of the Free Keen Squad from that episode of the Colbert Report from 2013.
Yeah, there's, man, you and I could sit for four hours and just riff on Catwall, so we can't do the deep lore.
The deep, because he used to be like an anarcho capitalist, libertarian.
You know, he's been through phases.
He was involved with the Free Keen people, that libertarian utopian society in Keen, New Hampshire.
And the Free Keen Project was only a big part of the state project, right?
Because the Free State Project was, they decided the libertarian movement in the 2010s decided that New Hampshire was the state most amenable to their way of life and was small enough that they could, if enough people moved to New Hampshire, take over.
They could take over and just like, I guess, succeed from the United States, or at least, you know, like it was this utopian project of like, but then again, getting people to move to a particular place because of abstract political ideas, you know.
Basically, the only people who went were a bunch of weirdos and crazies for the most part.
And the guys that stuck it out and free Keen all went to prison for a crypto scam.
Yeah, well, there's that too.
You know, you gotta.
That's a different story.
I think really what we're learning is that you and I need to do a collab project that's just walking through the steps of Chris Gatwell's life.
The deep lore.
So, yeah, he transitioned from being, you know, an anarcho capitalist, libertarian, whatever he thought that meant.
Yeah.
I think he lost his, he used to actually have a broadcast job, right?
That he lost for saying the N word on the air.
Yeah.
Well, he worked for Free Talk Live for a while.
And I think he had a previous job prior than that.
So, he had like a real job at some point.
Yeah.
And he said the N word on the air and he got in trouble.
And so, like a lot of guys, you know, his freedoms were abridged, right?
He was censored.
He was punished.
He was canceled for this.
You know, his free speech saying the N word on the air on broadcast radio, yes.
And then he became a Nazi, yeah.
He just, you know, as you do, it was 2016, and you know, you just you're far enough right and you start doing the race realist shit.
And then eventually you become a Nazi, and then you march into Charlottesville and you're one of the primary one of the guys on the poster.
I remember you were asked, right?
He was a headline speaker.
I remember you asked me at one point, sorry, I'm not giving you away our secrets, but you know, you were texting me, you were DMing me or something.
And you're working on something where you're like, who were the leaders?
Who was like a named person?
Do you have a list?
And like, well, I have the poster.
I sent you a link to the poster and you're like, perfect.
And he's like, I think, third on the poster or something like that.
I mean, it was like Spencer and Enoch was on there.
Invictus, Gessler.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All the original weird little guys.
It's almost like that's the Beatles, you know.
And they're all doing so well today.
They're all doing so well.
Yeah.
Do you see Richard Spencer's new mustache?
I have not yet.
I have seen much of his facial hair over the years.
I don't.
I don't track Richard Spencer on in the daily these days.
I kind of just, you know, he kind of decided he wanted to pretend to be a liberal.
And I did like one more episode.
It's like he's not a liberal.
He's just a racist who doesn't like Donald Trump and the Republicans.
And then I just stopped watching him entirely, except to just note when other Nazis went on his show.
You know, it was sort of like one of those things.
But yeah, so, you know, Cantwell committed some assaults at Unite the Right.
He did a little time in our local jail here for assaults.
And then he went home.
He went back to New Hampshire and he.
Became increasingly insane.
You know, he was trying to hold on to relevance by moving further and further right.
Some of it was a bit.
Some of it was for attention.
Some of it he genuinely believed.
It's hard to say.
He was tormented by accelerationist Nazis in the Bull Patrol?
Well, because he tried to get into their friend group, right?
Like at first they were friends and then they turned on him because that's what guys like that do.
Right.
And it broke him.
And then he went to federal prison for saying he was going to rape one of their wives.
Yes, yes, very.
And a trial that we covered on this podcast with Hillary Sargent, friend of the show, Hillary Sargent.
What a treat that trial was.
God bless Hillary.
Yes, no.
And then when he got out of prison, not quite two years ago, was it?
No, it was a little over two years ago.
It was at the end of 2022, right?
So early 2023, he's out of prison.
He's trying to get back into podcasting and no one gives a shit.
He became best friends with Victor Boot in prison.
He tried to ride that to relevance.
Didn't work out.
Did not work out.
And then he started doing this bit.
I think it was last spring.
So it was a year and a half ago.
He started doing this bit on his show where he was on Grindr.
That's kind of where I left him because that was kind of the last like big, you know, like episode I did about because he started talking about going on Grindr and like he's like, I forget if like he was going to like infiltrate and he was going to like expose like the networks of how like gape in, you know, like the, you know, that it's all subversives like working.
Yeah.
He's like, Oh, I'm just going to like show you how gross these guys are.
And my first thought when I first saw it was like, there are documented instances of, you know, far right guys, homophobes, violent.
Violent kind of guys.
Like, I think some former TWP guys did something like this where they tricked a guy into thinking they were going to come to a secluded area to hook up and then they did something violent to him.
So, my first thought was like, that's what he's doing.
And it wasn't.
It wasn't a trick.
Well, it was a trick.
It was a trick.
Well, at the time, I mean, I remember as I played some of the audio, right?
That Cantwell recorded during one of those sessions.
And I don't remember if I had decided to keep the person he was interviewing on mic or not.
But it was very much like, I don't want to.
Things that I said were, I don't want to victimize this guy further because there's no way Cantwell has really explained to this guy who he is and what his history is.
He's not being honest.
He's not being honest.
And there's something deliberately manipulative.
And I said something to the effect of, if you are this person and you hear the sound of your voice, reach out and I will remove those segments or take the episode down or whatever.
And nobody ever reached out to me on that.
I mean, it's just one of those things.
But I feel obligated to kind of.
And it turns out things like that would have been bad enough.
It's like every time we do another Cantwell bit, things have just gotten a little bit worse.
We skipped over.
Huge amounts of Catwell's history here.
We'll probably refer to some of it later on, but we're trying to get to the new stuff here.
Okay.
So I basically stopped once I always kind of have the opinion if you stop broadcasting, if you stop your propaganda, you're not my problem anymore, right?
You're my problem so long as you're putting words out into the world, you're so as you're putting content out that is manipulating public opinion, you know.
And once he stopped doing that because he was in a real job, whatever went on in his life, I now know more about what went on in his life.
You know, it's kind of like, well, if he starts broadcasting again, I'm sure it will come across my feed and I will start, you know, listening again.
But I have other things to do than just follow Chris Cantwell around, as do you.
But you tracking him, I guess, on his Telegram and such?
I keep sort of loose tabs on a long roster of guys, right?
And like for a long time, I was very interested in what Cantwell was up to because he was in active litigation with two friends of ours.
You know, he had harmed my community, he had harmed people I care about.
He was talking about me personally.
So for years, I was keeping.
Close tabs on this man because he was like, I don't know, telling his listeners where I live and that they should come hurt me there.
So, you know, I was checking it out.
I was keeping tabs.
But then as he became.
Sorry, not to discount that at all.
No, yeah, it's water under the bridge at this point.
He's hurt himself more than he could ever have hurt me.
But, you know, so I was keeping close tabs for a long time.
And he went to prison and I sort of, you know, I don't really.
He's, you know, he's gone away and he gets out of prison and I'm, you know, keeping an eye.
You know, I want to know where this man is that has threatened to rape me to death.
I want to know where he is.
Yeah.
But then, like you said, About a year ago, he kind of just stopped posting.
He stopped doing his show.
He was posting less and less.
He was really irrelevant.
He had no real following.
And so it's like, I don't need to keep track of this guy anymore because he's living in a halfway house in New Hampshire and he doesn't have a podcast anymore.
He can't hurt me.
But it turns out he was still hurting other people.
Not just himself, but other people.
He's physically hurting people.
So last year, he's doing the grinder thing.
People are making fun of him.
He's losing traction.
He's losing followers.
And so he stops podcasting.
And then earlier this year, I think it was in March, he was arrested on a charge of strangulation.
And I saw that.
I think I found it first and then someone wrote an article about it.
So I found that he'd been arrested and there was an article written about it.
And the journalist that wrote the article, I think it was in The Independent, uncovered that it was a strangulation charge and the victim was male and the police report had marked it down as a domestic violence incident.
And so then you were wondering, what does that mean?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Yes.
What is.
That means?
Because the address where it happened was the halfway house where he was living and it was domestic violence.
Yes.
And so it turns out the young man that he, I guess, allegedly strangled because that case hasn't gone to trial yet for reasons we will get to, it was a young man that he met on Grindr for sex.
And so we have known, Daniel, you and I have known for six months, like, I mean, I think we've suspected for longer than that, but we have known for sure, we have known Ironclad for sure for six months that he fucks men.
And we didn't say anything.
Yeah, yeah.
We did not out this man.
Right.
I mean, because why?
I mean, you know, this is why.
I mean, A, I mean, there would be a story in it because he's been viciously homophobic for the entire 10 years that I've been tracking him, you know.
But he was so irrelevant and his life had gotten so sad.
And I just like, you know, looking at this very young man, I mean, an adult, he's an adult, but it was a very young man.
And just like thinking about the situation that these men were in, it just felt sad to me.
And I said, I'm not going to be the one that outs this man.
Like, sure, he used to gleefully say he was going to rape the gay out of me, which.
Takes on a new dimension now that I know what I know.
Right.
But like, I didn't feel any value in outing this man, but last week he did it to himself.
He did it to himself.
His own personal 9 11.
Well, and he also published a little, like, I first found this as like an audio clip.
Oh, yeah.
So I guess we can give the name of the character.
He put it out there, right?
So.
Right.
He posted it.
Because again, we have had the audio book of his gay erotica for months, and neither of us did anything with it because we are.
Honorable people.
Yes, exactly.
Do you know the Cantwell News episode?
I could have made just plain clips of that.
Oh, my God.
Because he only.
So when he had his little gay meltdown last week, he posted a PDF of this.
I believe it is called Saving Myself for Marriage, kinda.
Kinda.
Yeah, I love that.
By Rick Greiner.
Yes.
Which is very interesting because his best friend in jail, Victor Boot, was very famously exchanged with Vladimir Putin in a prisoner exchange for Brittany Greiner.
Oh, interesting.
That's the first thing I thought of when I saw it.
But so his.
He posted the PDF of this gay erotica last week, but we have had the audiobook of him reading it in his own voice.
Yes.
And when I tell you, oh, did you listen to the whole thing?
I've listened to it a couple of times.
Yeah.
I didn't listen to it in preparation for this podcast.
It is repulsive.
Because he has a Long Island accent.
I think that's a big part of the problem.
Well, the thing is, I think there is no person other than Chris Cantwell who has listened to more of Chris Cantwell speak than I have at this point.
I mean, maybe some of his hardcore fans have not probably.
Gone as far back as I have.
I was reading some of these posts aloud to my partner, and he was like, Do you realize that you, even when you're not doing an impression of it, you're not doing the accent, you're not doing an impression, but you're reading it in his cadence?
Yes, yes, yes.
It's unmistakable.
My immediate thought when I heard it was, Is this AI?
Like, it was like, but it's not.
It's clearly, I mean, it's him.
It's him.
It's so specific to his cadence.
It is very much like.
The thing is, I've heard him talk about fucking women.
Yes.
And it's like.
In 40 year old virgin, when he says a breast feels like a bag of sand, right?
But when he talks about fucking men, it's like, oh, you did.
You sucked that cock.
Yeah, no, there's a.
I mean, God, no, I mean.
I've just never heard him say things like globs of cum.
You know, it was not.
I did not.
I did not.
No, no, no.
But usually it's in.
Sorry, on his Telegram, he's asking for this.
Does anybody have access to the audio of the Booty Judge segment that I did back when Pete Buttigieg was like something in Democratic politics?
The funny thing is, you probably do.
Oh, I have.
I absolutely have it.
Yeah.
I almost reached out to him like, here, here, dude, you want it?
You have it, you know?
God, when he was really hard up for money earlier this year and he said he was selling his personal notebooks to try and like get money to pay his rent, I was like, damn, like the only person who wants those is me.
Living in a Car with Meth00:07:03
Yeah, well, do you think he would let me buy them?
I think you could get them for a song so long as you didn't tell them it was you.
Like, I'll give you a hundred bucks.
Yeah, no, something like that.
God, man, you know?
Um, Yeah.
So I guess to get back to the chronology, January 2020, he gets arrested on federal charges for threatening to rape Cheddar Maine's wife, right?
September 2020, he's convicted.
He gets sentenced a few months later.
He gets out at the end of 2022.
And I think he has two years of supervision.
So he's on supervision until the end of last year.
So I think November, December last year, he gets off of supervision.
So he's not on probation anymore.
He's a free man.
So the end of 2024, he can do whatever he wants.
And then he immediately gets rearrested.
For strangling this young man in New Hampshire.
And that's when he starts to go completely bugfuck nuts.
Right.
I think within about six weeks of that arrest, two months maybe.
So, like, two months after he gets arrested for strangulation, he starts, and again, at this point, nobody's looking at him anymore.
He doesn't podcast anymore.
So, like, even his own former fans, like, nobody's paying attention to him anymore.
And he starts posting in the middle of the night, every night, All night, these insane long walls of text about how he's being gang stalked.
I could not read all of that.
That was, you know, I have a long, I have a strong summit for TLDR.
That was TLDR for me.
I don't know.
Like just pages and pages of text about this elaborate conspiracy about how he's being followed.
And so because he's out on bond for these assault charges, he's not supposed to leave the state of New Hampshire, but he believes he's fleeing gang stalkers, so he's driving.
All over New England.
Like one night in the middle of the night, he posts these videos where he's like, you know, I'm in my car, I'm in Connecticut.
It's like, what are you doing in fucking Connecticut?
And then a few weeks later, he gets arrested in Massachusetts.
He didn't.
So he gets into a car.
And I remember the day that it happened, because I, you know, at this point, I'm keeping tabs because I'm concerned.
I'm like, this is so sad that, like, again, this is a man who has threatened to kill me, who has physically harmed people that are close to me.
And I'm watching this happen thinking, like, should I call his mom?
Like, I'm.
Like, he's posting from the side of the road in Connecticut about how he's being followed by the, by the, by the, these, you know, I'm being followed by these criminals.
And I'm like, should, like, does anyone care about you?
Can someone come get you?
I mean, I remember you and I discussing this a bit in, in, in chat, you know, and it was like, you know, I mean, I think, I think there was a suggestion of like, is there a way to like tip off the cops that this is happening?
Cause he's clearly, you know, and like, not because I want him to get in trouble.
Right.
Like, but it's like, I need someone to go get him because I'm worried.
Well, it's, it's, this is, this, Sorry, more philosophically, you know, but this is the thing that, like, we believe that certain, I think you would agree with this that crime is not a, it's not, it's not, you're a terrible person, therefore you commit crimes.
And often it is this, it's coming from this, you know, you're in this place through you have no other option.
And there's just a, you know, no matter how much you have harmed me personally and my community and people that I care about and the world and how much hate you have put out into the world, like at some point, this is just like a homeless guy experiencing meth psychosis in public.
And it's like, can someone help him?
And with this one, he's living out of his car, I think is his kind of word.
He's living out of his car.
He doesn't have any money.
That's why he's trying to sell his papers.
And then, you know, he believes that he's fleeing these gang stalkers.
And so this rant.
The thing about gang stalking is like anyone who looks at you in public is now part of the conspiracy.
And so I was starting to get genuinely worried, not just for his safety, but like, is he, because I know he has committed violence in the past, is he going to lash out violently against a stranger at a Walmart?
Yeah.
Because somebody glanced at him because he looked probably pretty cruddy and he was carrying a blade or whatever he's allowed to carry or whatever he happens to carry.
And yeah.
By his own recounting of the incidents of the day of the accident, this woman got off the highway.
She was not following him.
She was in front of him on the highway and she got off on the exit that he was planning to get off on.
And so he thought, oh, she knew I was going to do that.
She's following me from the front.
So he followed her down into a residential neighborhood off the highway in Auburn, Massachusetts.
And they get in, they end up like she pulls over so that he can go around her.
And then he brake checks her and she re rends him, right?
So she did hit his car and he gets out and he's filming her and screaming at her and the cops show up and he doesn't have.
Car insurance.
And so, like, it was a pretty minor accident and it could have just kind of ended there.
But because he didn't have car insurance, they had to tow the car.
And because they had to tow the car, they had to inventory the car.
And as they're inventorying the car, they find a shit ton of meth.
Not what was it?
It was meth.
It was coke.
It was fentanyl.
It was, I mean, I don't know about, I don't know about the fent.
Like, it was a bunch of illegally purchased, allegedly, allegedly online purchased, like tons of boner pills.
So it was meth and a variety of other illegal drugs.
And boner pills.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you can use your imagination about what he's doing with 200 Viagra and enough meth that he got charged with intent to distribute.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, I mean, I understand that like these, these quantities are like set specifically to entrap people and et cetera.
But like that does seem like it's a lot of meth for a man living in his car.
I don't know how much 30 grams of meth is, but it sounds like a lot of meth.
Yeah.
I mean, I know what 30 grams is.
You know, I studied chemistry.
I've, I'm going to Google how much is a lot of meth.
Sure.
Um, How much does meth cost?
I don't know.
I don't know how to Google how much is too much meth to have.
Yeah.
Well, it seems like 30 grams.
It does feel like a lot of meth.
How much is a dose of meth?
I don't know.
I've never even actually seen meth.
So, an average dose of meth is 0.2 grams.
So that's 5 times 30, 150 doses of meth.
150 doses.
That's, yeah, that'll get you through.
That's a significant amount.
That'll get you through a good weekend.
Sure.
I'm naive.
So he's arrested in Massachusetts.
He still has pending charges in New Hampshire.
And so he's sitting in jail for a while in Massachusetts, and he finally gets them to let him out on bond on the condition that he's only allowed to go to an inpatient rehabilitation program.
So that's where he is now an inpatient rehab program in New Hampshire, and he is still posting, which brings us to last week.
Which brings us to last week.
This is where we've been trying to get.
So a week ago on 9 11.
I honestly thought, I honestly thought you and I were going to do an episode about the drug stuff at some point and like the paranoid delusions.
And then this puts that, we are no longer even considering that as like part of this.
Consensual Audio and Disgust00:15:12
I mean, it's.
Obviously, a part of the story, but he's definitely having meth psychosis.
Yes, yes.
In my layman's opinion of watching this man post for the last eight years, this is meth psychosis.
Yeah.
Which is, I mean, because we can say for sure he was definitely using meth, right?
That was speculation before, and I think it's certain now.
But one week ago, on September 11th, 2025, on 9 11, he posted this long wall of text saying, like, you know, I have to get this off my chest.
I've been having mountains of gay sex.
Forever.
Forever.
Starting from when he was 14 to 16.
I think he doesn't even know.
Since he was a teenager.
He was having like consensual sex with men.
So it's not just like after prison, I was into it.
No, it's forever.
It was forever.
Yeah, yeah.
He was always doing this.
You know, the entire, everything we've ever known about Christopher Cantwell coincides with this behavior.
Yes.
And it's like, it's so lazy to say like, oh, you know, homophobes are always.
That's not true.
That's not true.
There are plenty of homophobes who just hate gay people.
Yeah, yeah.
But for Chris, it always had that tenor.
Right, yeah.
I mean, we've been joking for years that he was probably a chaser, right?
And it turns out we were right.
Well, I always and I never really express this like in public just because you know it's I try not to speculate, you know, and I don't think anybody we're obviously not saying it's a bad thing that Chris Cantwell is gay or might be gay or has gay sex or that we are full, you know, no, it's just I'm just saying it out right, I'm just saying it out loud, all right, you know, like you can be as gay as you want.
I'm so happy for him, yeah, and even like tawdry, myth fueled, like you know, if that's your thing, and as long as everybody's consenting about it.
You know, look, legally, I'm not going to tell you that.
Is the opposite of what he has said.
You know what I mean?
Like, he, a year ago, would say that someone who did these things should be put to death.
God, I think he's kind of still saying that.
Yeah, he is.
We'll get there.
We'll get there.
He's still saying that he's not gay, that it's not gay what he's doing.
I actually find I have an interpretation here, but I want to kind of get, you know, because I want to go back briefly to the audiobook, to the PDF, to the short story, to the erotica.
Oh, yeah.
One thing I don't do on this podcast is talk about my sex life.
You know, it's just, it's not relevant.
You know, I will say I've been reading erotica.
For as long as the internet is assisted, you know, I was like 15.
So, what's your expert opinion on if this is because that's I don't read erotica, so I don't know if this is a normal tone.
Now, I don't read a lot of like explicitly gay erotica.
I've read, I mean, look, yeah, I mean, it's out there, sure.
I'm no judgment.
I like sex, I'm interested in sex.
I sex is like a nerd thing for me sometimes, you know, it's just like all the different ways people put their ugliest together.
I like learning about this, but this did not feel loving to me.
Oh, well, loving is not the question, it does not feel loving.
Um, it did.
So, one thing that you get when you read like amateur erotica, particularly like a lot of it is like teenagers, you know, sitting there on like, you know, and they're just right.
Like, there's a tab A and slot B problem where, like, if you actually start to diagram, okay, I was doing this and then I did this and then I put my hand here.
And then it's like, it sounds like you kind of have four hands.
You know what I mean?
And none of those problems exist in this.
This felt authentic.
Well, he wrote it as a love letter to the man being described.
He wrote it as like an experience of, I'm a straight man.
I never thought I would want to suck a man's dick.
Right.
But it's not like it's not an imaginary scenario.
He's describing his actual first experience sucking a dick and he wrote it for the man in the story.
And as we later learned, I took it as a work of fiction.
I took it as like at the time, you know, I took it as well.
We didn't know at the time.
We didn't know at the time.
I took it as well.
You've been reading, you've been talking to these guys on Grindr.
Maybe it's your way of trying to get in with them or maybe like make money off of them or like, you know, just.
He tried his hands at a ton of, remember?
Oh, yeah.
Edgy goodies.
Edgy goodies.
Edgy goodies.com.
Oh, my God.
He was just selling like little weather radios and shit just to make money.
It's like drop shipped.
You can get it from Walmart cheaper, but if you do it for me, you pay me.
And it's like, well.
Why would I do that?
Yeah, exactly.
God, how many times did you read that freaking ad read?
How many times did I listen to that?
Like hundreds, hundreds.
Anyway, so I took it as like, this is a work of fiction.
This is like, it's very well described.
It felt realistic.
It felt very realistic.
Is it good erotica?
I mean, again, I've read a lot worse.
I've read a lot better.
I would not put this, but I think the problem, I think the real stylistic Issue with it is he's trying to describe an experience that he enjoyed, but you can feel his own disgust with himself.
So it's like you can't really.
Erotica should not be full of self loathing.
You know, I've read enough.
I mean, there is a fetish.
He's describing gay sex in a way he's like, yeah, I was doing this thing and I really liked it, but he obviously still finds it disgusting.
Right, right.
I mean, I think.
And I find what he's saying disgusting for a different reason.
Right.
Well, I mean, what he's saying is disgusting for a lot of reasons, but, you know, But again, I took it as kind of like maybe he did this.
Maybe it's a work of fiction.
Maybe he's, you know, but I took it.
And then, like, yeah, he has since posted audio of it happening.
So we know it happened, unfortunately.
I, so as I said with the Charlie Kirk video, do not go look for this.
Don't fight.
Don't fight.
Don't do this.
I, Molly, though, everyone listening to the sound of my voice knows I have listened to ungodly hours of content that any, you know, the mild stuff that I listen to, most people would find completely objectionable to even know it exists.
This was the dirtiest I've ever felt listening to audio in the production of.
I didn't listen.
I didn't listen.
I couldn't do it because I don't think it was recorded consensually.
Okay, here's do you think, and we may cut some of this, all right?
Do you think that the gentleman, that the other person was the person he was in the short term affair with?
Or do you think this is a rando?
I didn't listen because I, again, I don't know that it was recorded consensually and I don't want to be involved in that.
I'm 100% agree with that.
For me, again, I'm not sharing it.
We're not putting any of this out there.
I'm not telling you how to find it.
You do not want to find this.
I believe it is entirely possible that it is completely unethically sourced.
I think there is a possibility that this was someone that he had that the audio quality is too good for it not to be like a visible microphone.
There had to be a microphone in the room.
Because again, I mean, I guess like if you're smoking both crack and meth, which he has admitted to doing simultaneously during some of these encounters, yeah, maybe that guy agreed to something crazy, you know?
He offered poppers at one point.
Like they do poppers on the audio.
I mean, that's just good fun, but like, yeah, sure.
I just, I don't know.
Is it, is consent meaningful if you're on crack?
I don't know the answer to these questions.
It felt dirty.
It felt dirty, and not because of the, you know, the degree to which they were having sex or the, like, it seemed mutually enjoyable for both of them, at least.
I'll give it that.
But no, it is, it is really one of those things of like, this, this felt like deliberately non consensual, even if there was kind of some meaningful consent.
And certainly, I don't think, and the same thing I said with the, with the gentleman on the, on the other episode.
Even if he consented to the recording, he didn't know how it was going to be used.
Exactly.
Did he know it was going to be shared in a Nazi chat room so that Nazis could hear him doing this?
Yes, exactly.
And that's the part where I felt like even more deeply uncomfortable.
So I have listened once.
I will never listen again.
Again, I get the ethical issues.
I thought it was important to hear for myself just as someone studying this stuff.
You're a completionist.
For better or worse.
Mostly worse.
I sit through all the credits of the Lord of the Rings movies and I listen to.
Oh, God, that's terrible.
Oh, God.
Okay, anyway.
So, we're not going to talk about the contents here, but it's deeply uncomfortable.
But it is very authentically real.
And he has continually come back.
And I stopped checking the chat.
He has come back over and over again, talking in more and more detail about just how many dudes he's fucked hundreds.
Hundreds.
He said sometimes several per day.
And he's talking.
Again, if you're someone who enjoys a casual hookup on illegal substances, That's great for you.
I'm so happy for you.
I hope you're being safe.
I hope you're on prep and I hope everything you're doing is consensual and safe.
Good for you.
Have a good time.
But he's talking about fucking multiple strangers per day while high on meth for days at a time.
And that's not good for you.
No, it's, it's, it's, yeah.
I mean, he's looking rough.
I haven't seen a photo of him in a while.
So, you know.
Oh, he's posted some video messages.
Oh, he's not looking good.
I mean, when he first started posting these videos, you know, earlier this year, I thought, well, that's just what he looks like.
When he doesn't have access to, you know, steroids, testosterone, because he was getting drug tested on probation.
So I thought, well, he can't use steroids, right?
That's just what he looks like not on steroids.
And it turns out that's what he looks like strung out on meth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but the reason he chose to come out was not because he's embracing his new identity and living authentically.
Well, certainly not.
Certainly not.
It's because he believes that it is important as part of this gang stalking narrative, right?
Yeah.
Like, he's like his enemies are going to release this at some point in the future to make him look bad.
Which is fascinating because his, you know, what he believes to be his enemies people like you and me and Emily and Goat and the FBI.
So, you know, we have known about this all year.
And I was thinking about this the FBI has probably known all along.
Oh, yeah, probably.
They had pole cameras outside of his house.
If men are coming over to suck his dick, the FBI saw them.
Yeah.
I mean, the FBI had search warrants for his home, his car, his phone, his email years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah, the FBI did know all along, didn't they?
And again, like nobody outed him.
The FBI didn't, you didn't, I didn't.
The journalist that wrote the article about him strangling that young man was careful not to explicitly out him, even though he could have.
Yeah, absolutely.
He's talking about this, you know, inevitability that he's going to be blackmailed, that his enemies are going to do this to him, but like nobody did.
You understand, you and I don't think that having anonymous gay sex for days at a time is necessarily a character flaw.
And the fact that Cantwell is gay, I mean, I think of it as interesting from a perspective of hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy.
To be fair to him.
To be fair to this psychotic Nazi, if he were still in a place where he was actively harming me and people I care about, I might have disclosed this information.
In a journalistically ethical manner.
You know what I mean?
It might have been a story that I felt inclined to disclose if we were still locked in this battle of the wills where he was threatening to kill me.
I don't know.
Whatever.
I'll admit that.
But at this stage of his life, I feel like everybody watching him still is like, but this is just a sad man.
And in classic Cantwell fashion, right?
He's like, my enemies are going to hurt me, so I'm just going to go ahead and shoot myself in the dick.
He did this to himself.
Almost literally.
He did it to himself.
Right.
I mean, he thinks like my enemies, and I guess maybe he thinks his enemies are like the ex bull, but like the guys to the right of him, like the accelerationist types.
Yeah.
As opposed to.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's the nebulous they, as we kind of sound like.
It's like the nebulous they hasn't existed.
It's not the bull patrol as you and I understand it to exist.
It's this thing in Catwill's head is like, it can't be you're just paranoid and strung out on drugs.
He keeps emphasizing that's not what this is.
I know you think that's what this is, but that's not what this is.
It's not because of the meth.
I'm not even on meth anymore.
And it's like, oh, Chris, I'm so sorry.
But like, sometimes it's permanent.
The thing is that like, I'm pretty sure he's known that I existed for a long time.
But I don't believe he has ever actually, maybe once, I think once he said my name on the podcast.
Like, I guess to not draw attention to the podcast, I think, was sort of like part of the thing there.
Right.
You don't want to draw attention to your enemy.
I remember at one point, and I'm going to reveal, you know, something about myself.
He was kept, he was referring to whenever he would like say Emily's name, Emily Grotchinsky's name on the podcast.
Like, he's not allowed to say her name through the terms of his.
It was illegal for him to say.
It was illegal for him to say on the podcast, et cetera, for very good reasons.
Stifling his free speech, obviously.
Sure.
And, well, Whenever he did, I would just message you and Emily and go, like, hey, you know, just letting you know.
And then he would get dinked for it by the legal system.
You know, he'd get a message or whatever.
He's like, how's it?
And then he said, like, Emily's listening.
It's like, it's not Emily, buddy.
It really isn't.
She really was not.
Emily has better things to do.
Not all of us have better things to do.
Yes, Cam.
Well, if you listen to this, I was the one the whole time.
It was always me.
Nobody else listens to your bullshit.
Anyway.
I have.
But again, you know, he's got this idea in his head.
I think even before the mess psychosis, right?
Like, from the beginning, from the beginning, you know, for at least eight years ago, as long as I've known of his existence, he has had this belief that he is the victim of this gigantic, nebulous conspiracy, right?
That everything that's wrong in his life is someone else's fault and they're targeting him because he's special.
So even when he's not psychotic, he believes that he is being targeted because of how special he is.
Right.
So he believes he's like, he's uniquely talented.
He's like, it's uniquely a brilliant figure.
He's God's gift to mankind.
And he's going to, Personally, save the white race by talking into a microphone and telling racist jokes.
It makes perfect sense in that context that once he finally cracked all the way up, this was the delusion he had, right?
That he is the center of this crazy, gigantic, worldwide conspiracy by the Jews and Antifa and also the Nazis, right?
The Nazis that are worse than him.
So it's the government, it's the Jews, it's Israel, it's Weave, it's everybody.
Because Weave is Jewish, they're like.
Ethnically Jewish, I don't even know how Jewish Weave is, but like he believes Weave is a Jew.
God, do we should we say who Weave is?
Andrew Arenharmer, yeah.
He was like the tech support for the alt right back in the heyday of the alt right, but he thinks Andrew Englen is involved and also Mossad and the CEO of Grindr.
I mean, since when has Englen even been relevant?
I mean, nobody has seen Englen in eight years, yeah.
Like, he's he doesn't exist anymore.
I think he's still hiding in his parents' basement or something.
I think he just hasn't been outside like he's.
Infighting Within the Alt Right00:14:27
You know, there's a strong contingent of belief that he's somewhere in Southeast Asia.
I think he's in Ohio.
I don't think he ever fucking left Ohio.
Why would you leave Ohio?
I'm sorry.
If you've been trapped in a basement in Ohio for eight years to avoid service of judgment in a civil lawsuit, like, you're not powerful enough to run an international conspiracy.
No, not at all.
Not at all.
You're not tormenting Christopher Cantwell, you know, hand in hand with the CEO of Grindr.
That's not happening.
Yeah.
It's the vast conspiracy of the Grindr CEO.
Andrew Angland and Antifa, it all captures experience between it.
Amicide, yes.
Or just, you know, it's the arm meme with all four arms, and those are the.
They're all doing it to him.
Yeah, and it's all about getting, stopping Chris Cantwell because otherwise he would be too powerful to stop.
It takes all of that might, you know.
Yeah.
And it's like, at this point in his career, why does he think anyone's trying to stop him?
Stop him from what?
Well, he hasn't.
He's not real.
I wanted to, I did want to, like, mention this a little bit is that, you know, when he went to jail for that physical, for that threat that he did, you know?
I was in, he was in for what a year and some change, and then he had a couple of years.
Um, there was, yeah, yeah, something like that.
Yeah, so he was arrested in January 2020.
He got out in December 22, but some of that was pre trial detention.
So, yeah, I mean, all told, he was in for almost two years, right?
Yeah, there was a sense that he's serving time for the cause that you and I know differently, but like on the far right, there was a sense that well, these are trumped up charges.
He just because they needed because they wanted to silence him after Charlottesville, well, or.
They just have it out for the guy.
He's just because, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
He's doing time for the cause.
And it might have worked in 2019.
Right.
But he's doing time for the cause.
And so, therefore, let's, you know, they don't like him anymore.
They didn't like him even then.
But there was.
And I think, especially because, like, if he had gone to prison for threatening me, I think that would have been way better for his reputation.
Oh, yeah.
But he went to prison for threatening another Nazi.
And so, as a result of this investigation and the trial, Nazis got outed.
People further to the right of Cantwell had to get on the stand because they got federal subpoenas.
It ended Paul Nealon.
It ended the Bull Patrol, right?
Because they were all outed.
They all had to talk to the fucking FBI.
So it's hard to go down as like, oh, I'm a martyr for the Nazi cause when like you ruined the career of a couple of Nazis.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, I guess what I was going to say is there was a sense in like, say, like Matthew Q. Gerbert, you know, Fourth House.
We got an, I'll do, I'm doing an episode on him.
He's got new lawsuits cooking too.
Don't worry.
He's still working on it.
He's still cranking them out.
If you want to come back and talk about the lawsuits, then I'd love to.
I'd love to.
I've been keeping track.
I get the updates.
No, I just listened to the podcast.
So, you know, you and I, again, we need to join forces more often.
Because I don't listen to that shit.
No, no, I listen to the shit.
I find it fascinating.
But, you know, the Daily Show kind of had this soft policy of we just don't criticize Chris Camp.
They criticize everybody, but he's doing time for the cause.
Like, let's, you know, don't kick him while he's down, you know, et cetera.
Gerbert, like, at the end of the most recent Full House, You know, it's like, yeah, we got a little housekeeping to do at the end.
And we were, I was kind of, so he says, and I promise you, this audio exists.
I'm going to share it with you.
I wish I clipped it just so I could share it with Molly right now.
It's astonishing.
He's like, yeah, Cantwell sent me this PDF of the book that he wrote, the little short story he wrote.
He sent it directly to him privately?
Months ago.
Months ago.
And he said, I think this is the greatest thing I ever wrote.
Why did he do that?
Chris knows this is true.
About six months ago, he messaged me and said, Hey, I wrote this thing.
You should read it.
I think it's one of the best things I've ever written.
And it was, it was that thing that he wrote.
And I started reading it and pretty, I was like, is this go?
Oh, yes.
This is going in a sort of gay erotica way.
And I stopped and I just wrote back and said, look, I have a, Personal policy of not consuming gay propaganda or gay pornography.
And I just said, I'm not going to read it and I don't think you should publish it.
And again, so if people were going to punish him by outing him, why didn't Matthew Geebert do that?
Exactly.
Everyone was looking at this man thinking, like, it's not even fun to fucking kick this man.
Yeah, there's no, like, it's like a sick dog.
You know, you just put it down, but you're not going to kick this man.
The guys at Full House absolutely should have outed him.
That's very much within their wheelhouse.
That's their MO.
And they didn't because it was too sad.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, they do a lot of infighting.
They try to do it.
They really love infighting.
They love, everybody loves infighting.
Oh my God.
I don't know when they invite.
That's always fun.
He sent it to Giebert personally.
He sent it to Giebert personally, yeah.
Why did he do that?
Because did he think that he would find it impressive?
I can only imagine that.
It's like Ben Shapiro or Matt Walsh or those figures who really wanted to get into Hollywood.
Right.
And Chris always.
He had that stand up comedy attempt.
He did stand up comedy for a little while.
But Giebert, of all people, right?
Giebert's podcast is about.
The joys and the value of white fatherhood and traditional white living.
Like, did you think this man was going to like your gay erotica?
I think, I think, I think, I just want to call him Q, Matthew.
There was a thing when his name was revealed.
Like, there was a segment that was like, oh, is this the original QAnon guy?
It's like, guys, you don't know what you're talking about.
It's fine.
It's fine.
The Q is for like Quentin or something.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
It's like Matthew Q Gerbert.
There's a thing where I think he was like maybe the one guy who was like had any degree of respectability who's had any like contact with Cantwell at that point, who had anything nice to say to him.
And I suspect that that may be like he just thought, like, this is like a great thing that I've done.
I just want you to read it.
And Gerbert, like, Gerbert's disgusted.
I mean, he's disgusted, not for the reasons that you and I are, but because it's gay content and get that the fuck out of my sight.
He's very much opposed to that.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Very publicly.
Yeah, very publicly.
I mean, you know.
Like his whole thing is like, gay people shouldn't exist.
Yeah.
I mean, that's one of his top 10 things.
No, I mean, it's kind of been in the top five, I think, really, honestly, you know.
I think race mixing would be higher than that.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
All right.
So I don't know.
Where do we think this goes from here?
So right now, he has pending charges in New Hampshire that I can't actually find the fucking docket.
New Hampshire has the, I don't know, New Hampshire doesn't have a greatly digitized docket system.
So I don't know.
But he says the trial is in March.
So maybe that's true.
Maybe he's going on trial in March for those assault charges in New Hampshire.
He's currently out on bond on those charges and on the charges in, Massachusetts.
It's like 10 different felony drug charges.
The misdemeanor assault in New Hampshire is probably less of a concern than the, I think, upwards of a decade he could get for some of those charges in Massachusetts.
Yeah.
He's convinced he can beat it all, but he is really hampered in his ability to fight the charges because he's stuck in rehab and he believes that one of the other men in the rehab facility is part of the gang stalking conspiracy, which, like, imagine group therapy sessions.
Imagine you're just some fucking guy.
You're just a random, Guy trying to go to rehab in New Hampshire, and during group therapy, some weird, bald Nazi is screaming at you that you're gang stalking him.
Like, that guy's just trying to get well.
Some guy stuck in this rehab facility getting screamed at by Cantwell, who believes he's Mossad.
I mean, I just imagine, I just imagine how much, despite that, you know, people in 2017, people thought he had talent.
I know, I know, but people thought he had talent and they really kind of liked his content.
And so they had gone, and then Even though they thought he had talent, his personality defects were so large that he alienated literally everybody.
And then, even when he got new, even nastier friends, he alienated all of them as well.
I can only imagine that as a meth addict, it's only that much worse.
Not probably not improving the abrasiveness of his interpersonal skills.
I'm just imagining, like, and no disrespect to anyone who has been addicted to any substance.
You know, we have great respect for the people.
It doesn't improve your personality.
But I can imagine, like, meth addicts kind of scurrying away from Chris Cantwell, even if he had the product.
It's like he's talking about, like, smoking crack at the orgy.
And it's like, dog, you ruined the vibe at that hotel.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like everyone else smoking crack was just vibing.
You wrecked it.
Absolutely.
I love the fact that he has so much Viagra on him.
You know, that he's got like hundreds of doses of Viagra.
Because one of the things he was bragging about in that terrible audio clip is like how long he could fuck.
You know?
Isn't that part of the appeal of having sex on meth?
I don't know.
I've never had sex on meth.
So, I mean, neither have I, but I. I've, from what I have heard, you can have sex for a very long time on meth.
I don't know.
That's maybe it.
I'm innocent.
Don't contact me about this.
Yeah.
I mean, I, the thing, I know more about Chris Catwell's dick than I ever really wanted to.
Dog.
I tried to get a quote about Catwell's dick in the New York Times once, and the editorial board nixed that immediately.
It was a really great line.
I even sent the guy audio of him bragging about his porn habits.
He's fucked up how much I know about this man, mostly against my will.
Yes, very much so.
Like, I'm just trying to make sure he's not hurting people.
And I, now I know, now I know what he does on crack.
Yeah.
Well, I, I'm going to, I'm going to end.
I mean, I think we're wrapping up here.
And I just wanted to end with, to me, sounds like it's like, it's less like I want to have sex with men, but that men are available to me very easily, whereas women are not.
And so, saying.
And like, the way he describes, and like in the past, the way he's described his like need to just come, his need to just get it out there.
And like, he just has to.
Ejaculate so many times a day, it does start to feel more like sex addiction than like anything else to me.
Yeah, but most people would just masturbate or hire a sex worker.
I feel like once you've had sex with over 100 men since you last saw a woman naked, that's not just because you need to bust.
I mean, I'm not an expert, I'm not an expert on what guys are doing, but we're not diagnosing from afar.
But I think his I just wanted to raise it as a possibility.
He's been posting nonstop for a week about how much he loves fucking men.
But he's always like, but like, not in a gay way, but like, not in a gay way, though.
And it's like, I don't know.
I read your erotica and it sounded in a gay way to me.
Yeah.
It sounded pretty gay.
Yeah.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
But it sounds like you think there's something wrong with that.
And that's, I mean, if he has been gay since he was a teenager, imagine if he could just have accepted that about himself.
Because he might have been a better person.
He's four or five years old.
He's 44.
He'll turn 45 later this.
He turns 45 in November.
God, okay.
That's healthy for both of us to know.
Well, I'm 45.
He's my age.
So, you know, it's easy for me to say.
But if he's been having gay sex for 30 years.
Yes.
He's had sex with, I would say, 100 times more men than women.
Yeah, probably.
Given that, God, how many women do.
I mean, that's probably like single digits, I think, at this point, right?
Single digits, right?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
And I think, you know, part of his turn to madness was that woman allegedly.
One of his villain origin stories, obviously, I can't verify that this is true, but his villain origin story is that that woman aborted his child, right?
A Puerto Rican woman aborted his baby.
Thank God she did.
I mean, if that even happened, right?
But, like, yeah.
And there's that one woman who lives in Maryland who keeps getting committed to a state hospital that I know he had an on-again, off-again thing for a long time.
Yeah.
There's the woman that he was dating in 2019 when he got into trouble with the Bull Boys.
But, I mean, like, single-digit, single-digit number of women.
Yeah.
No, it's just, yeah.
I mean, if he's having this much, yeah.
No.
God.
It just, it just, if you're getting your dick sucked by four men a day, it's because you like getting your dick sucked by men.
Yes.
Indeed.
I'm just, I don't think that's controversial to say.
No.
I mean, he's fucking.
At this point, this is a Nicki Crane situation.
This is a Nicki Crane situation.
Nazi by day, cruiser by night.
We've seen it before.
It's not unusual.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But no, so as far as what's next for him, I was just pulling up the docket for his case in Massachusetts.
It looks like yesterday he tried.
So he's been saying because he believes the gang stalker is in the facility with him that he wants to leave.
He can't leave because he's there on court orders.
So it looks like yesterday he.
Filed his had he had his attorney file a motion to amend his bond conditions, and the judge said no.
So he is still in that rehab facility, and the judge says he has to stay there or come back to jail.
And that's kind of where things are for him now.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I guess to be continued, if you know, if things continue down this path, I mean, at this point, it's almost like, man, it's every time he hits a new low, I just think, well, now there's just no much like I just thought he's going to get sentenced to something and he's just going to be in jail.
And he just, it'll just, that'll just be the end of it.
You know, like it's just, he'll come out in 20 years and, you know, he's just, he'll just, he'll just be an old man in a, in a, in a, on a, with a cane who was a lifer or something, you know?
It's sad to say, like, obviously I'm not a big supporter of the carceral state, but like, think about his options at this point.
I think going to jail for a few years is the best thing that could happen to him.
Yeah.
Because if he beats these charges, he's just a homeless meth addict.
Right?
Like, he can't get a job.
The Fall of a Famous Nazi00:07:02
He can't go back to being a famous Nazi because nobody cares about him anymore.
Like, I mean, and, and, I mean, like, I'm just wondering, like, one of the things, I mean, again, just like the social safety net kind of questions about this.
Like, I mean, it's a sad, it's a sad indictment on society, right?
That, like, the best thing that he can do is go to jail.
Well, you know, sometimes, I mean, again, sometimes that's the case.
I'm just like, he's not an unintelligent.
I mean, he's very stupid in the ways that, you know, but he's not un, he's not incapable.
Like, He can't wash dishes at a Pizza Hut or something?
Like, I mean, it just seems like he's.
I guess the problem is, he doesn't think he should have to.
Right.
Well, I don't think.
If two years ago, when he got out of prison, right, he's been sober for a while because he was locked up.
If at that point he was like, all right, I'm going to get a job washing dishes, he could have just been a guy.
He could have just gone back to being a person in the world, but he refused.
He refused.
He wanted to be a famous Nazi, and he's never going to get that, especially not now.
No, I mean, I think at this point that that ship has sailed, like you know.
Um, but again, he's always just blowing his own life up.
Yeah, it's sad to watch.
It's sad.
I mean, you know, I know we're laughing, we're having a good time.
It's funny to watch your enemies fall, but like he's fallen so far that it's not even fun anymore.
I'm sad for him, yeah.
And I mean, the day to day is, I mean, we're laughing, we laugh on the I mean, you know, say this all the time, we laugh on this podcast because we laugh so we don't cry, you know, because it's difficult stuff and we're just it's just uncomfortable to talk about this stuff, but.
Like watching us day by day, it's like, it's just, it's sad.
It's depressing.
It's just like, you know.
It's a very weird emotional place to realize.
Like, you know, like I was saying, when I was watching him like really start to lose it earlier this year, and like nobody's paying attention to this man anymore.
He's not famous.
He's not important.
He's not podcasting.
Even people like you are like, you don't care about this guy anymore.
To feel like I'm the only one watching this man fall apart, and it's like, I feel sad for you.
You have hurt me so badly, like on a personal, one to one, you and me in the arena.
You have tried to hurt me so badly, and I feel nothing but pity for you.
It's so strange.
Yeah.
Well, it just speaks to the fundamental patheticness at the heart of who Cantwell kind of always has been.
Ultimately, and I think the thing there was a moment where I was like, I might be the only person in the world who is concerned that you will die tonight, and that's so sad for you.
I think if you had reported that to me, like if you like if he had died that night and you had come to me and you had said, I can't, I can't tell you how I would have felt.
I think, I mean, because there were times where I think in the last couple of months, you and I have discussed, like, do I have an ethical obligation to help him because I think I'm the only person watching him hurt himself like this?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and I don't, I mean, you know, and I don't know the answer to that.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's, I mean, I.
I don't think anybody, I don't think anybody listening to this podcast would hold it against you to not like reach out with social support to help.
I mean, I didn't, I'll be honest, I didn't.
Yeah, no, I didn't need, I mean, you know, I mean, we both of us could have done something and, you know, I didn't do anything.
I mean, if you had announced, if you had told me like, oh, you found an obituary or something, I would have been, well, it was always going to be this way.
That may be what's next for him.
Like, he's, if he gets out of this facility, he's going to hurt himself or someone else.
And I know that.
Well, that's just what it is.
Obviously, we don't want him to hurt himself, but I would much prefer that than him hurting someone else.
Um, Because if he does that, that's probably going to be real bad.
Yeah.
I mean, thank God he doesn't have access to a firearm.
Yeah.
But it's sad.
Well, I will not speculate as to possibilities, but you're right.
It is sad.
He doesn't have the money to buy an illegal gun and he can't buy one legally.
So thank God.
But I don't know.
It's a sad story.
Hopefully, he will get the help that he needs in his court mandated rehab facility and he will come around and come through the psychosis and realize he's not being gang stalked by the CEO of Grindr.
And I don't know.
I will probably continue to have a vague idea of what state he is in for the rest of one or both of our lives, just in case.
Yeah.
Well, and you'll keep me posted.
Yeah.
And maybe you'll come back and we'll discuss him one last time.
But I think, you know, it sounds like this is we're nearing the end of like Cantwell News as being a thing that anybody cares about.
You know, like I think people glommed onto this segment.
People really like it because it was in a tune.
He's bombastic.
Because he's bombastic and you can kind of play audio clips of him.
He's always doing something crazy, like going to prison for threatening some other knight.
It you know what I mean, like crazy stuff, but this isn't this is just sad.
This is just you know, like, yeah, no, it's just yeah.
This is a man who's obviously hated himself for a long time, and he unfortunately turned that outward into a hatred of the whole world.
Yeah, he he hurt a lot of people, but I think the person he has hurt the most is himself, so yeah, that's at this point, that's probably true.
All right, Molly, tell us where we can find your more of your work on the internet.
Yeah, if you want to be depressed by me on in a long form.
Podcast format.
You can check out Weird Little Guys, available wherever you listen to podcasts.
It is, people say that it's like a sort of spooky bedtime story vibe.
You know, I do my NPR voice and there's music beds.
It's very soothing, except I am talking about Nazis.
It is one of those things where occasionally I will just have my podcast things playing as I go to bed and then Weird Little Guys pops up and I know the intro and everything.
And it does start to lull me to sleep just a little bit.
Like, oh, yes, this is, you know, but then, of course, for me, I.
It's this would not be the only time I've fallen asleep listening to Nazis.
It's got a good vibe, it's got great music.
I don't know as much.
I was listening to, I happened to fall asleep listening to the Daily Show one day, and I'm listening to the free stuff now.
And it wasn't, it was fine because it's just A, if I'm listening to it and I'm listening to it at like 2x speed.
So I've got these guys like yelling in my ear at like super high speed.
No, it's not.
But I'm having like nightmares where I'm like, listen, like Mike Enoch is yelling at me.
And what lulled me back to awakeness was they do in the free feed now, they do Jesse jumps in and he does like little ad reads for the podcast.
Hi, hope you're enjoying the show.
You can get this for a paywall at trs.com instead.
And when I heard that thing, I woke up and I'm like, oh, that was the ad.
Okay, God.
You have to subscribe to Premium to get more dreams.
Yes, exactly.
No, that was bad.
But anyway, thank you so much for coming on.
Whittle Guys is a great, brilliant show.
I really love chatting with you about this horrible, horrible man.
Please come back whenever you have anything else that you want to share with us.
And I hope you have a wonderful time feeling sad for Chris Cantwell.
Feeling pity for Chris Campbell.
Let's put it that way.
It's a miserable emotional situation for everyone involved, truly.