Daniel welcomes very special guest Molly Conger of Weird Little Guys (and much renown besides) for the mother of all Cantwell news installments. Much Content Warning. Molly's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/socialistdogmom.bsky.social Weird Little Guys: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-weird-little-guys-201395214 Show Notes: Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay ad-free and independent. Patrons get exclusive access to at least one full extra episode a month plus all backer-only back-episodes. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper/posts Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618&fan_landing=true IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod Daniel's Twitter: @danieleharper Jack's (Locked) Twitter: @_Jack_Graham_ Jack's Bluesky: @timescarcass.bsky.social Daniel's Bluesky: @danielharper.bsky.social IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1
And welcome to I Dol Speak German, episode uh 13 something.
I don't know, I lost counted the numbers a long time ago.
Um, and today from the title, you will know we are into one of our perennial favorite topics.
Um unfortunately Jack had something come up and he um will not be able to make it with us today.
Uh he's fine, he's just having a bad night.
Um and in his steed, I have asked, actually, I asked before this, but I um we have a guest, a very special guest, someone who has long I've wanted to get on this podcast.
Uh welcome, Molly Conger.
I don't speak German.
I'm so glad to be here for this in particular.
Thank you.
I think there really was a moment we were um we were DMing and it just could sort of turned into a um okay, we have to talk about that because Oh boy.
I don't know.
So we are gonna be discussing Chris Cantwell.
Um, and I think most of our listeners already know who Molly is and knows who's Chris Cantwell is, so we'll kinda go late on this.
But Ollie, you have a project that you know, people I I can't imagine that there are many people, but people listening to this might not be aware of what you do over at With Little Guys.
So um talk to us a little bit about you about your project, about your podcast.
Yeah, I just started year two of my show, Weird Little Guys.
Um if you're a listener of I Don't Speak German and you haven't checked out Weird Little Guys, I think you'll like it.
I mean, I'm biased in that, but I I think if you like this show, you'll like weird little guys.
Um they are sort of biographical vignettes about exactly what it says on the tin.
The kind of guy that's just he wants to be Hitler, but he's just a little fucking freak.
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um and you've covered, I mean, you've covered, I mean, God, give us give us a a rundown just some of the some of the figures.
Because I've listened to every episode.
Actually, pardon me.
I'm too behind because I'm perpetually behind on everything.
Cause after the Charlie Kirk thing, I spent like three days doing nothing but listening to Charlie Kirk content.
But oh no.
So sorry.
Yeah, multiple hours a day of of from material from Charlie Kirk or about Charlie Kirk.
Yeah, it's been uh it's been fun.
So I I pick movement figures that are sort of a lot of them are lesser known or or unknown even.
I found a couple of guys that I'd never even heard of that there's just nothing out there about, but um guy spent three months writing about Dennis Mahan, the um the guy who came up in White Aryan Resistance who ended up in prison for sending a mail bomb to the diversity office in Arizona.
Um I spent a couple of months writing about um white supremacist terrorism in South Africa in the 80s.
That was a weird journey.
Um most recently I was writing about the American Third Position Party.
Yeah.
Which was I'm I'm I'm familiar.
I'm you know those guys.
I know the A3P because I listen to James Edwards podcast every board still.
Yes, he is, he is on the board, and he brings a lot of the people.
I think he still refers to it as American Freedom Party sometimes.
So it's you know, or was it originally A3P and it was A3P and then they changed to AFP.
They're AFP now.
I think he uses it both ways from time to time.
Anyway, you know, I've been listening to James Edwards since like 2016.
So that's a bad ride.
And that's you know, every week, every week it used to be every Sunday because he records on Saturdays and you know, releases on Sunday mornings, and it was just my Sunday routine for a while.
And now I it's not every Sunday, but I've listened to every episode since then.
So I I didn't even when I was writing about American Freedom Party, I didn't listen to any political cesspool.
I can't do it.
I can't do it.
I don't have your stamina.
Well, I the way you do it is something that I, you know, I feel like I feel like you want to have uh, you know, complimentary skill sets because like the way you do it is you go in to look at like court documents and and archives and recent newspaper stuff.
I mean, tell me what you're sorry, just for me, I'm just nicknaming out here again to ask you about this.
Um I have you I have you in the hot seat now.
I get to I get to uh implore you.
Tell tell me how do you do it?
Like what what's the what's the process look like?
Because a lot of this stuff, I mean you've been researching for years, and then you just kind of my I do the same thing.
I've been researching for years, and then pops up and well, we're talking about this today, you know.
Um, but obviously, you know, what I'm doing is just you know, listening to these guys incessantly talk, and you're doing something a lot more thorough.
So I mean, I'm just wondering, you know, what how is it how does what what is a day?
What is a typical day for for It's a nightmare?
Yeah, so yeah, of course it is.
Of course it is.
No, I I love to make I I've talked about this before.
I like to make a timeline.
That's sort of my starting point as I make this sort of biographical timeline, and I flesh it out.
And so sometimes by the time I write an episode, I have like a 30 page single spaced bulleted list of every day of a man's life where I can put him on paper.
Wow.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like between newspapers, like genealogical records, like court records, their own public statements, social media, their family, social media.
And so I'll have just this bulleted list of every place I can ever like pinned down for sure this is where he was and what he was doing.
And then you just sort of go from there.
So like this week I'm writing about the episode that just came out today, and then there'll be a second one next week, a part two to that.
The guy that killed Rockwell.
Yes.
Right.
So and there's you know, there's a bit of information about Pattler, John Patler, the the guy that killed George Lincoln Rockwell.
But I'm sort of trying to piece together from because there's no biography about John Patler.
So I read a bunch of biographies of Rockwell and a biography about Dan Burroughs and you know, I'm looking at genealogical records, court records from his brother, his brother murdered his girlfriend in the 80s.
Um and so sort of piecing together from all these like ancillary sources.
Like I read every issue of Stormtrooper magazine from the early 60s.
I'm just and I don't know what I'm looking for, but I'll know it when I see it.
You know, it's like pornography.
Yeah, I know.
Well, you know, a topic that we'll probably come out.
We're gonna we're gonna be talking about that.
Um yeah, so um well anyway, uh check out Weird Little Guys, it's amazing, it's astonishingly well researched.
I mean, people ask me how I do it, and like I'm like, it's difficult.
I get it.
It's it's fine every day.
Then I look at what Molly does, and I'm like, I got the easy job, you know.
All I do, I just carry these guys around with me all the time.
I mean, but like meticulously documenting it like that.
That's honestly, if there's one thing I wish it was like I I wish it was something I could show people like in written form, because some people just resist the podcast format.
I mean, I just I don't speak German as so much like it's like a we're chatting, you know, about this stuff, you know.
But yeah, I just I you know, I I wish I want there to be like transcripts that I can send people for people who are like, Oh, I don't listen to a podcast.
Like, no, this isn't that kind of podcast, you know.
Well, if he was a literary agent, get me a book deal.
Well, you know Yeah, harder than you think.
Anyway, right.
Okay, so um all that aside, we are here to do something uh very important, which is to talk about the most uh you know uh what Jack would probably say, like the most pathetic man we've ever covered on Auto Speak German.
Um pathetic that like I stopped talking about him in public because it felt cruel.
And honestly, I there's gonna have to kind of talk through some of this and like look this podcast is edited, so if we get into places that it's uncomfortable, we get to the body.
Well, and the ethics of describing some of the things he's done is also like sort of sort of becomes an issue.
Yeah.
Um so um, I guess in the way that you uh, you know, I'm asking you to describe people who don't know you, which is one thing.
Now I'm gonna ask you just to I've talked about Chris Cantwell enough on this podcast.
Uh give us give us your synopsis of who was Chris Catwell up to about 2023, you know.
Right.
Right.
So this is your first time listening to I Don't Speak German, and you've never heard of Christopher Charles Cantwell.
If if if you bring audience over, it's entirely possible nobody's heard of Chris Cantwell.
Or there will be people who never heard of Chris Gantwell.
Um if you just woke up from a coma that you've been in since before 2017, you may not know the crying Nazi.
Yes, indeed.
Um I mean, I guess I mean he was a former libertarian.
Um he had some trouble with the law as a teenager.
You'll have to put it a link in the show notes to the video of the uh the free keen squad from that episode of the Colbert report.
Yeah, there's so many you and I could sit for four hours and just riff on cat law.
So we can't do it.
The deep lore.
The deep because he used to be like an anarcho-capitalist libertarian, you know, he's been through phases.
He was involved with the um the free keen people that that that libertarian utopian society in uh Keen New Hampshire.
And the free Keen project was only a they all went to the free state project, right?
Because the Free State Project was they decided the libertarian movement in the 2010s decided that New Hampshire was the state most amenable to like their way of life and was small enough that they could if enough people moved to New Hampshire, they could take over.
They could take over and just like it's in the like I guess succeed from the United States, or at least you know, like it was this utopian project of like, but then again, getting people to move to a particular place because of abstract political ideas, you know.
Basically, the only people who went were a bunch of weirdos and crazies for the most part.
And the guys and the guys that stuck it out in free keen all went to prison for a crypto scam.
Yeah, well, there's that too.
Um, you know, this is a different story.
I think this I think I think really what we're learning is that you and I need to do a collab project project that's just walking through the steps of Chris Gantwell's life.
The deep lore, the deep lore.
So yeah, he transitioned from being, you know, anarcho-capitalist libertarian, whatever he thought that meant.
Yeah.
I think he lost his he used to have actually have a broadcast job, right?
That he lost for saying the N-word on the air.
Yeah, he was well, he's a free talk live for a while.
And I think he had a previous job prior than that.
So he had like he had like a real job at some point.
Yeah.
And he said the N-word on the air and he got in trouble.
And so, like a lot of guys, you know, his freedoms were uh abridged, right?
He was he was censored, he was punished, he was canceled for this for you know his free speech, saying the N-word on on the air.
On on broadcast radio, yes.
And then he became a Nazi.
Yeah.
He just, you know, as as you do, it was 2016, and you know, you just you you're far enough right and you start doing the race realist shit, and then eventually you become a Nazi.
And then you march in Charlottesville, and you're one of the primary one of the guys on the poster.
I remember you were asking me.
Right, he was he was a he was a headline speaker.
I remember you asked me at one point.
Sorry that I'm not giving you away our secrets, but you know, you were texting me, you were DMing me or something, and you were working on something where you're like, who were the leaders?
Who who was who was like a named person?
Do you have a list?
And like, well, I have the poster.
I like sent you a link to the poster, and you're like, perfect.
And he's like, I think third on the poster or something like that.
I mean, it was like Spencer and Enoch was on there and Victus, Gessler.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's all the all the all the the original weird little guys.
It's almost like that's the Beatles, you know.
And they're all doing so well today.
They're all doing so well.
Yeah.
Did you see Richard Spencer's new mustache?
I have I have seen I have seen many much of his facial hair over the years.
I don't I don't track Richard Spencer on in the daily these days.
I kind of just, you know, he he kind of decided he wanted to pretend to be a liberal, and I did like one board episode.
It's like he's not a liberal, he's just a racist who doesn't let Donald Trump and the Republicans in many such cases.
Then I just stopped watching him entirely, except to just note when other Nazis wanted his show.
You know, it was sort of like one of those things.
But yeah, so you know, Cantwell committed some assaults at Unite the Right.
He did a little time in our local jail here for assault.
Um then he went home.
He went back to New Hampshire and he became increasingly insane.
You know, he was trying to hold on to relevance by moving further and further right.
I some of it was a bit, some of it was for attention, some of it he genuinely believed he was.
It's hard to say.
He was tormented by accelerationist Nazis and the bull patrol.
Well, because he tried to get into their friend group, right?
Like at first they were friends, and then they turned on him because that's what guys like that do.
Right.
And it broke him.
And then he went to federal prison for saying he was gonna rape one of their wives.
Yes, yes, very uh, in a trial that uh we covered on this on this podcast with uh Hillary Sergeant from the show Hillary Sergeant.
What a treat that trial was.
God bless Hillary.
Yes, you know, uh and then when he got out of prison, uh not quite two years ago.
So no, two, it was a little over two years ago.
It was at the end of 2022, right?
So early 2023, he's out of prison, he's trying to get back into podcasting and no one gives a shit.
He became best friends with Victor Boot in prison.
He tried he tried to ride that to relevance, didn't work out.
Did not work out, and then he started doing this bit.
I think it was last spring.
So it was a year and a half ago.
He started doing this bit on his show where he was on Grinder.
That's kind of where I left him because that was kind of the last like big, you know, like episode I did about Bo Calls.
He started talking about going on Grinder, and like he's like I forget if like he was gonna like infiltrate and he was gonna like expose like the the networks of how like gape and you know, like the you know that it's all subversives like working in the yeah, he's like, Oh, I'm just gonna like show you how gross these guys are.
And my first thought when I first saw it was like there are documented instances of you know, far right guys, homophobes, violent, violent kind of guys.
Like I think some former T WP guys did something like this where they tricked a guy into thinking they were gonna come to a secluded area to hook up, and then they did something violent to him.
So my first thought was like that's what he's doing.
Right.
It wasn't.
It wasn't a trick.
Well, it is a trick.
It was a trick.
Well, and at the time, I mean, I remember as I played some of the audio, right?
Um that that Cantwell like recorded during That set during one of those sessions.
And I don't remember if I had decided to keep the person he was interviewing on Mike or not.
But it was very much like I don't want to things that I said were I don't want to victimize this guy further because there's no way Cantwell has really explained to this guy who he is and what his history is.
He's not being honest.
He's not being honest.
And there's something like deliberately manipulative, and I said something to the effect of if you are this person and you hear the sound of your voice, reach out, and I will remove those segments or take the episode down or whatever in that, you know.
And nobody ever reached out to me on that.
I mean, you know, it's it's just one of those things, but I feel I feel obligated to kind of and it turns out things like that would have been bad enough.
It's like every time we do another Cantwell bit, it's so things have just gotten a little bit worse.
We skipped over huge amounts of Catwell's history here.
We'll probably refer to some of it later on, but we're trying to get to the new stuff here.
Okay.
So I basically stopped once I I always kind of above the opinion.
If you stop broadcasting, if you stop your propaganda, you're not my problem anymore, right?
You're my problem so long as you're putting words out into the world, you're so as you're putting content out that is manipulating public opinion, you know.
And once he stopped doing that, because he was in a real job, whatever, whatever went on in his life.
I now know more about what went on in his life.
Um, you know, it's kind of like well, if he starts broadcasting again, I'm sure it will come across my feed and I will start, you know, listening again.
Um, but I have other things to do than just follow Chris Catwell around.
Um, as do you, but um you tracking him uh I guess on his telegram and such.
I keep sort of loose tabs on a long roster of guys, right?
And like for a long time I was very interested in what Cantwell was up to because he was in active litigation with two friends of ours, you know.
Yeah, he had harmed my community, he had harmed people I care about, he was talking about me personally.
So for years I was keeping close tabs on this man because he was like, I don't know, telling his listeners where I live and that they should come hurt me there.
So, you know, I was I was checking it out, I was keeping tabs.
But then as he became sorry, not to not to discount that at all or anything like that.
It's water under the bridge at this point.
He's hurt himself more than he could ever have hurt me.
But you know, so he's keeping close tabs for a long time, and he went to prison, and I sort of, you know, I don't really he's he's you know, he's gone away, and he gets out of prison, and I'm you know, keeping an eyes, you know.
I I want to know where this man is that has threatened to rape me to death.
I want to know where he is.
Yeah, but then like you said, uh about a year ago, he kind of just stopped posting, like he stopped doing his show, he was posting less and less, he was really irrelevant, he had no real following, and so it's like I don't need to keep track of this guy anymore because like he's living in a halfway house in New Hampshire and he doesn't have a podcast anymore.
Like he can't hurt me.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but it turns out he was still hurting other people.
Right.
So not just himself, but other people he's like physically hurting people.
So you know, last year he's doing the grinder thing, people are making fun of him, he's losing traction, he's losing followers, and so he stops podcasting.
And then earlier this year, this I think it was in March, he was arrested on a charge of strangulation.
And I saw that I think I found it first, and then someone wrote an article about it.
So I found that he I saw that he'd been arrested, and then was an article written about it, and the journalist that wrote the article, I think it was in the independent, uncovered that it was a strangulation charge, and the victim was male, and the police report had marked it down as a domestic violence incident.
And so then you were wondering, what does that mean?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Yes, what does that mean?
Because the the address where it happened was the halfway house where he was living, and it was domestic violence.
Yes.
And so it turns out the young man that he I guess allegedly strangled because that case hasn't gone to trial yet, um, for reasons we will get to.
It was a young man that he met on grinder for sex.
And so we have known, Daniel, you and I have known for six months.
Like, I mean, I think we've suspected for longer than that, but we have known for sure.
We have known ironclad for sure for six months that he fucks men.
And we didn't say anything.
Yeah, yeah.
We did not we did not out this man.
Right.
I mean, because why I mean, you know, this why?
I mean, I mean, hey, I mean, there would be a story in it because he's been viciously homophobic for the entire 10 years that I've been tracking him, you know.
But he's he was so irrelevant in his life, it gotten so sad, and I just like you know, looking at this very young man, I mean an adult, he's an adult, but it was a very young man, and just like thinking about the situation that these men were in, it just felt sad to me.
And I said, I'm not gonna be the one that outs this man.
Like, sure, he used to gleefully say he was gonna rape the gay out of me, which takes on a new dimension now that I know what I know.
Right.
But like I didn't feel any value in outing this man, but last week he did it to himself.
He did it to himself.
His own personal 9-11.
Well, and he also published a little like I first found this as like an audio clip.
Oh, yeah.
So it's I guess I guess we can give the name of the character.
He put it out there, right?
So right, he posted it because again, this we have had the audiobook of his gay erotica for months, and neither of us did anything with it because we are honorable people.
Yes, exactly.
Do you know the Cat Wall News episode I could have made just plain clips of that?
Oh, because he only so when he had his little gay meltdown last week, he posted a PDF of this.
Uh I believe it is called Saving Myself for Marriage, kinda kinda.
Yeah, I love it by Rick Griner.
Yes.
Which is very interesting because his best friend in jail, Victor Boot, was very famously exchanged with Vladimir Putin in a prisoner um exchange for Brittany Griner.
Oh, interesting.
That's the first thing I thought of when I saw it.
But so his his he posted the PDF of this gay erotica last week, but we have had the audio book of him reading it in his own voice.
Yes.
And when I tell you, oh, did you listen to did you listen to the whole thing?
I've listened to it a couple of times.
Yeah.
I didn't listen to it in preparation for this podcast.
It is repulsive.
Because he has a long island accent.
I think that's a big part of the problem.
Well, the thing, the thing is, I think there is no person other than Chris Cantwell who has listened to more of Chris Cantwell speak than I have at this point.
I mean, maybe some of it's like hardcore fans, but I think even the hardcore fans have not probably gone as far back as I have.
I was reading some of these posts aloud to my partner, and he was like, Do you realize that you even when you're not doing an impression of it, you're not doing the accent, you're not doing an impression, but you're you're reading it in his cadence.
Yes, yes, yes.
It's it's it's unmistakable.
My immediate thought when I heard it was like, is this AI?
Like it was it was like it did like, but it's not, it's clearly I mean it's him, it's his so it's so specific to his cadence.
It is very much like the thing is I've heard him talk about fucking women.
Yes, and it's like in 40 year old virgin when he says a breast feels like a bag of sand, right?
But when he talks about fucking men, it's like, oh you you did, you sucked that cock.
Yeah, no, there's a I mean, God, no, I mean I was I've just never heard him say things like globs of cum, you know.
It's it was but usually it's in it's in um sorry on his on his telegram, he's asking for this.
Does anybody have access to the uh to the audio of the the booty judge segment that I did back when Pete Bud Buttig was like something in Democratic.
And the funny thing is you probably do.
Oh, I have absolutely have it.
Yeah.
I almost reached out to him, like, here, dude, you want it, you have it, you know.
God, when he was when he was really hard up for money earlier this year, and he said he was selling his personal notebooks to try and like get money to pay his rent.
I was like, damn, like the only person who wants those is me.
Yeah, well, you and I do you think he would let me do you think he would let me buy them?
I I think I think you could get them for a song, so long as you get in trouble with them, it was you.
Like, I'll give you a hundred bucks.
Yeah, no, something like that.
God man, you know.
Um, I guess so.
I guess to get back to the chronology, January 2020, he gets arrested on federal charges for threatening to rape Cheddar Main's wife, right?
September 2020, he's convicted, he gets sentenced a few months later, he gets out at the end of 2022, and I think he has two years of supervision.
So he's on supervision until the end of last year.
So I think November, December last year, he's he gets off of supervision.
So he's not on probation anymore.
He's a free man, so the end of 2024, he can do whatever he wants.
And then he immediately gets re-arrested for strangling this young man in New Hampshire.
And that's when he starts to go completely bug fuck nuts.
Uh right.
I think within about six weeks of that arrest, two months maybe, so like two months after he gets arrested for strangulation, he starts and again at this point, nobody's looking at him anymore.
He doesn't podcast anymore.
So, like even his own former fans, like nobody's paying attention to him anymore.
And he starts posting in the middle of the night, every night, all night, these insane long walls of text about how he's being gang stalked.
I I I could not read all of that.
That was it, that was you know, I have a long, I have a strong symbol for TLDR.
That was TLTL TLDR for me.
But Like just pages and pages of text about this elaborate conspiracy about how he's being followed.
And so because he's on he's out on bond for these assault charges.
He's not supposed to leave the state of New Hampshire, but be he believes he's fleeing gang stalkers, so he's driving all over New England.
Like one night in the middle of the night, he posts these videos where he's like, you know, I'm in my car, I'm in Connecticut.
It's like, what are you doing in fucking Connecticut?
And then a few weeks later, he gets arrested in Massachusetts.
Um he didn't so he gets into a car, and I remember the day that it happened, because I, you know, at this point I'm keeping tabs because I'm concerned.
I'm like this is so sad that like again, this is a man who has threatened to kill me, who has physically harmed people that are close to me, and I'm watching this happen thinking, like, should I call his mom?
Yeah, like I'm w like he's posting from the side of the road in Connecticut about how he's being followed by by the by the I'm I'm being followed by these criminals.
And I'm like, should like does anyone care about you?
Can someone come get you?
I mean, I remember you and I discussing this a bit in in in chat, you know, and it was like, you know, I mean, I think I think there was a suggestion of like, is there a way to like tip off the cops that this is happening?
Because he's clearly, you know, and like not because I want him to get in trouble.
Like, but it's like I need someone to go get him because I'm worried.
Well, it's it's this is this sorry, more philosophically, like you know, like this is the thing that like we believe that's certainly I I think you would agree with this that crime is not a it's not it's not you're a terrible person, therefore you commit crimes, and often it is this it's coming from this, you know, you're in this place through you have no other option.
And there's just a you know, no matter how much you have harmed me personally and my community and people that I care about and the world and how much hate you have put out into the world, like at some point this is just like a homeless guy experiencing meth psychosis in public, and it's like can someone help him?
And at this point, he's he's living out of his car, I think is his kind of thing.
He's sleeping out of his car.
He doesn't have any money, and that's why he's trying to sell his papers, and then you know, he believes that he's fleeing these gang stalkers, and so this rant the thing about gang stalking is like anyone who looks at you in public is now part of the conspiracy.
And so I was starting to get genuinely worried, not just for his safety, but like is he because I know he has committed violence in the past.
Is he going to lash out violently against a stranger at a Walmart?
Yeah, because somebody glanced at him because he looked probably pretty cruddy and he was carrying a carrying a blade or whatever he's allowed to carry or whatever he happens to carry.
And yeah, like by his own recounting of the incidents of the day of the accident, this woman got off the highway.
She wasn't she was not following him.
She was in front of him on the highway, and she got off on the exit that he was planning to get off on.
And so he thought, oh, she knew I was going to do that.
She's following me from the front.
So he followed her down into a residential neighborhood off the highway in Auburn, Massachusetts.
And they get in, they end up like she pulls over so that he can go around her, and then he break checks her and she re-rends him.
Right.
So she did hit his car.
And he gets out and he's filming her and screaming at her, and the cops show up and he doesn't have car insurance.
And so like it was a pretty minor accident, and it could have just kind of ended there, but because he didn't have car insurance, they had to tow the car, and because they had to tow the car, they had to inventory the car, and as they're inventorying the car, they find a shit ton of meth.
What was it?
It was meth, it was coke, it was fentanyl, it was I mean.
I don't know about fent.
Like he it was a bunch of illegally purchased, allegedly, allegedly online purchased, like tons of boner pills.
So it was meth and a variety of other illegal drugs and boner pills.
Yeah.
So I mean, you can use your imagination about what he's doing with 200 Viagra and enough meth that he got charged with intent to distribute.
Yeah, I mean, that that's I mean, I I understand that like these these quantities are like set specifically to entrap people and etc.
But like that does seem like it's a lot of meth for a man living in his car to think.
I don't know how much 30 grams of meth is, but it sounds like a lot of meth.
Yeah, I mean, I know what 30 grams is.
You know, I I studied chemistry.
I've I'm gonna Google how much is a lot of meth.
Sure.
Um how much does meth cost?
I don't know.
I don't know how to Google how much is is too much meth to have.
Yeah.
Well, it seems like it seems like 30 grams.
It does feel like a lot of meth.
How much is a dose of meth?
I don't know.
I've never even actually seen meth, so um an average dose of meth is point two grams.
So that's five times thirty, 150 doses of meth.
150 doses, that's yeah, that'll get you through this is significant.
That'll get you through a good weekend, sure.
Oh god.
I'm naive, but yeah.
Uh so he's you know he's arrested in Massachusetts, he still has pending charges in New Hampshire, and so he's sitting in jail for a while in Massachusetts, and he finally gets them to let him out on bond on the condition that he's only allowed to go to an inpatient rehabilitation program.
So that's where he is now.
It's an inpatient rehab program in New Hampshire, and he is still posting, which brings us to last week.
Which is where we've this is where we've been trying to get.
So a week ago on 911.
I I honestly thought, I honestly thought you and I were going to do an episode about the drug stuff at some point and like the paranoid delusions, and then that this puts that we are no longer even considering that as like part of this.
I mean, it's obviously a part of the story, but he's definitely having meth psychosis.
Yes.
In my layman's opinion of watching this man post for the last eight years, this is meth psychosis.
Yeah.
Which is I mean, because we can say for sure he's was definitely using meth, right?
That was speculation before, and I think it's certain now.
Um but one week ago, on September 11th, 2025, on 911.
On 911, yes.
He posted this long wall of text saying, like, you know, I have I have to get this off my chest.
I've been having mountains of gay sex forever, Brad.
Starting from when he was 14 to 16, I think he doesn't even know teenager.
Since he was a teenager, he was having like consensual sex with men.
So it's not just like after prison, I was into no, it's forever.
It was forever.
Yeah, yeah.
He was always doing this.
You know, the entire everything we've ever known about Christopher Cantwell, it coincides with this behavior.
Yes.
And it's like it's so lazy to say like, oh, you know, homophobes are always that's not true.
That's not true.
There are plenty of homophobes who just hate gay people.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh but for Chris, it always had that tenor, right?
Yeah, I mean we've been joking, we've been joking for years that he was probably a chaser.
Right.
And it turns out we were right.
Well, I I always and I never really expressed this like in public just because you know, it's I try not to speculate, you know, and I I don't think anybody we're obviously not saying it's a bad thing that Chris Cantwell is gay or might be gay or has gay sex or that.
We are full, you know, it's just saying it out loud.
Right.
I'm just saying it out loud.
All right, you know like you can be as gay as you want.
I'm so happy for him.
Yeah.
And even like tawdry meth fueled, like, you know, if that's your thing, and as long as everybody's consenting about it, you know, look legally I'm not gonna tell you to.
Is the opposite of what he has said.
You know what I mean?
Like he a year ago would say that someone who did these things should be put to death.
I I God, I think he's kind of still saying that and we'll get there.
We'll get to the biggest thing.
I I actually find I have an interpretation here, but I want to kind of get, you know, cause I want to go back briefly to the to the audio book to the to the PDF to the to the short story, right?
To the erotica.
Oh yeah.
It's I have I one thing I don't do on this podcast is talk about my sex life, you know.
It's just it's not relevant, you know.
I will say I've been reading erotica for as long as the internet is assisted, you know.
I I was like 15 when I was.
I don't read erotica, so I don't know if this is a normal tone.
No, I don't read I don't read a lot of like explicitly gay erotica.
I've read I mean look Yeah, I mean it's out there, sure.
Uh I'm no judgment.
I like I like sex.
I'm interested in sex.
I sex is like a nerd thing for me sometimes, you know.
It's just like a all the different ways people put their uglies together.
I like I like learning about this.
But this did not feel this did not feel loving to me.
Oh well loving is not the question.
It does not feel loving.
Um it did so one thing that you get when you read like amateur erotica, particularly like a lot of it is like teenagers, you know, sitting there on like you know, and they're just right.
Like there's a tab A and slot B problem where like if you actually start to like diagram, okay.
I was doing this and then I did this, and then I put my hand here, and then it's like it sounds like you kind of have four hands, you know what I mean?
Um and um none of those none of those problems exist in this.
This this felt it felt authentic.
Well, he wrote it as A love letter to the man being described.
He wrote it as like an experience of I'm a straight man.
I never thought I would want to suck a man's dick.
Right, but it's not it's not like it's not an imaginary scenario.
He's describing his actual first experience sucking a dick.
And he wrote it for the man in the story.
And as we as we as we later learned, I I I took it as a work of fiction.
I took it as like at the time, you know, we didn't know at the time.
We didn't know at the time.
I took it as well.
You've been reading you've been talking to these guys on Grindr.
Maybe it's your way of trying to get in with them, or maybe like make money off of them, or like you know, just he tried his hands at a ton.
Remember edgy goodies.
Oh my god.
He was just selling like little weather radios and shit just to make money.
Like dropshipped.
You can you can get it from Walmart cheaper, but if you do it for me, you may you pay me.
And it's like, well, why would I do that?
Yeah, exactly.
Um God, how many times did he read that freaking ad read?
How many times did I listen to that?
Like hundreds, hundreds.
Um anyway, so I took it as like this is a work of fiction.
This is like it's very well described.
It felt realistic.
It felt very realistic.
Um, is it good erotica?
I mean, again, I've read a lot worse, I've read a lot better.
I would not put this, but I think I think the problem, I think the the real stylistic issue with it is he's trying to describe an experience that he enjoyed, but you can feel his own disgust with himself.
So it's like you can't really erotica should not be full of self-loathing.
I you know, I've read enough.
I mean, there are there is a fetish.
He's describing gay sex in a way he's like, Yeah, this I was doing this thing and I really liked it, but he obviously still finds it disgusting.
Right, right.
Uh I mean, I think I think I find what he's saying disgusting for a different reason.
Right.
Well, I mean, what he's do what he's saying is disgusting for a lot of reasons, but you know, um, but again, I took it as kind of like maybe he did this, maybe it's a work of fiction, maybe he's you know, but I took it and then like he has since he has since post audio of it happening, so we know it happened, unfortunately.
I so as I said with the Charlie Kirk video, do not go look for this.
Don't fight don't feel this, you know.
You don't do this.
Um I Molly, so everyone listening to the sound of my voice knows I have listened to ungodly hours of content that any you know the mild stuff that I listen to, most people would find completely objectionable to even know it exists.
This was the dirtiest I've ever felt listening to audio in the production of I didn't listen.
I didn't listen, I couldn't do it because I I don't think it was recorded consensually.
Okay, here's do you think, and we may cut some of this, all right?
Do you think that the gentleman that the other person was the person he was in the like short-term affair with, or was do you think this is a rando?
I didn't listen because I again like I can't I don't know that it was recorded consensually, and I I don't want to be involved in that.
I I'm 100% agree with that.
For me, again, I'm not sharing it, we're not putting any of this out there.
I'm not telling you how to find it.
You do not want to find this.
It is I believe it is entirely possible that it is completely unethically sourced.
I think there is a possibility that this was someone that he had that the audio quality is too good for it not to be like a visible microphone.
There had to be a microphone in the room.
Like this is a good thing.
I mean, I guess like if you're smoking both crack and meth, which he has admitted to doing simultaneously during some of these encounters, yeah, maybe that guy agreed to something crazy, you know.
He he offered poppers at one point, like they do paupers on the on the audio crack.
I mean, that's just good fun, but like yeah, sure.
I just I don't know.
Is it is dis is consent meaningful if you're on crack.
I don't know the answer to these questions.
Um it felt it felt dirty.
It felt dirty, and not because of the you know, the degree to which they were having sex or the like it seemed mutually enjoyable for both of them, at least I'll I give it that.
But um, no, ah it is it is really one of those things of like this this felt like deliberately non-consensual, even if there was kind of some meaningful consent, and certainly I don't think and the same thing I said with the with the gentleman on the um on the other episode.
Um if even if he could send it to the recording, I'm he didn't know.
Did he know how it was gonna be used?
Did he know it's gonna be did he know it was going to be shared in a Nazi chat room so that Nazis could hear him doing this?
Yes, exactly.
And that and that's the part where I felt like even more deeply uncomfortable.
So I have listened once, I will never listen again.
Again, I get the ethical issues.
I thought it was important to hear for myself, just as someone studying this stuff.
You're a completionist, for better or worse, mostly worse.
I sit through all the credits of the Lord of the Rings movies, and I listened to uh possible sex.
Oh god, that's terrible.
Oh god.
Okay, anyway, so we're not gonna talk about the contents here, but it's it's deeply uncomfortable.
But it is very authentically real.
And he has continually come back.
And I stopped like checking, I stopped checking the chat, you know.
He has come back over and over again, like talking in more and more detail about just how many dudes he's fucked.
Hundreds.
Hundreds.
I mean, yeah.
He's he said sometimes several per day.
Like he is and he's talking and I you know, again, if you're someone who enjoys a casual hookup on illegal substances, that's great for you.
I'm so happy for you.
I hope you're being safe.
I hope you're on prep.
And I hope everything you're doing is consensual and safe.
Good for you.
Have a good time.
Um, but he's talking about fucking multiple strangers per day while on high on meth for days at a time, and that's not good for you.
No, it's it's it's yeah.
I mean, he's he's looking rough.
I haven't seen a photo of him in a while, so you know.
Oh, he's posted some video messages.
He's not looking good.
I mean, I when I when he first started posting these videos, you know, earlier this year, I thought, well, that's just what he looks like when he doesn't have access to you know steroids, um, testosterone, because he because he was getting drug tested on probation.
So I thought, well, he can't he can't use steroids, right?
That's just what he looks like not on steroids.
And it turns out that's what he looks like strung out on meth.
Yeah, yeah.
So but the reason he chose to come out was not because he's embracing his new identity and living authentically, certainly not.
It's because he believes that it is important as part of this gang stalking narrative, right?
Yeah.
Like he's like his enemies are going to release this at some point in the future to make him look bad.
Which is fascinating because his you know, what he believes to be his enemies, people like you and me, Emily and Goat and the FBI.
So, you know, we have known about this all year.
And I was thinking about this.
The FBI is probably known all along.
Oh, yeah, probably.
They had poll cameras outside of his house.
If men are coming over to suck his dick, the FBI saw them.
Yeah.
I mean, the FBI had search warrants for his home, his car, his phone, his email years ago.
So yeah, the FBI did know all along, didn't they?
And again, like nobody outed him.
The FBI didn't, you didn't, I didn't.
The journalist that wrote the article about him strangling that young man was careful not to explicitly out him, even though he could have.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh he's talking about this, you know, inevitability he's going to be blackmailed and his enemies are gonna do this to him, but like nobody did.
Well, you're like you you understand you and I don't think that having like anonymous gay sex for days at a time is necessarily a character flaw.
You know, like like the fact that if Cantwell is gay, I mean I think of it as like interesting from a like perspective of you know what's hypocrisy, hypocrisy or you know, and like fine.
To be fair, to be fair to this psychotic Nazi.
Um, if he were still in a place where he was actively harming me and people I care about, I might have.
I might I might have disclosed this information in a journalistically ethical manner.
You know what I mean?
It might have been a story that I felt inclined to disclose.
Um if we were still, you know, locked in this battle of the wills where he was threatening to kill me.
I don't know, whatever.
I'll put I'll I'll admit that.
But at this stage of his life, like I feel like everybody watching him still is like, but this is just a sad man.
Yeah, well, and in classic and in classic can't well fashion, right?
He's like, My enemies are going to hurt me, so I'm just gonna go ahead and shoot myself in the dick.
He did this to himself.
Almost almost literally, he did it to himself.
Right.
I mean, he thinks like my enemies, and I guess maybe he thinks his enemies are like the expulbit, like the like the guys to the right of him, like the accelerationist thieves, as opposed to.
I mean, it's it's the nebulous they as we kind of hasn't existed, it exists.
It's not it's not the bull patrol as you and I understand it to exist.
It's this thing in Catwell's head is like it can't be you're just paranoid and strung out on drugs.
He keeps he keeps emphasizing that's not what this is.
I know you think that's what this is, but that's not what this is.
It's not because of the meth.
I'm not even on meth anymore.
And it's like, oh, Chris, I'm so sorry, but like sometimes it's permanent.
The thing is that like I'm pretty sure he's known that I existed for a long time.
Um, but I don't believe he has ever actually maybe once.
I think once he said by name on the podcast.
Like as to not draw attention to the podcast, I think was sort of like part of the thing there.
Right, you don't draw attention to your enemy.
I remember at one point, and I'm gonna reveal, you know, so uh something about myself.
He was uh kept um he was referring to whenever he would like say Emily's name, Emily Grochenski's name on the on the podcast, like he's not allowed to say her name to the terms of his own.
He was it was illegal for him to say it was illegal for him to say and uh to say on the podcast, etc.
Um, for for very good reasons.
Um stifling his free speech, obviously.
And well, whenever he did, I would just message you and Emily and go, like, hey, you know, um just letting you know.
Um, and then he would get dinked for it by by the legal system with you know he get a you know a message or whatever.
He's like, how's that and then he said, like, Emily's listening?
It's like it's not Emily, but it really isn't Emily.
She really was not.
Not all of us have better things to do.
Yes, can't well.
If you listen to this, I was the one the whole time.
It was always me.
Nobody else listens to your bullshit.
Anyway, I have um But again, you know, he's he's got this idea in his head.
I think even before the Meth psychosis, right?
Like from the beginning, from the beginning, for at least eight years ago, as long as I've known of his existence, he has had this belief that he is the victim of this gigantic nebulous conspiracy, right?
That the everything that's wrong in his life is someone else's fault, and they're targeting him because he's special.
So even when he's not psychotic, he believes that he is being targeted because of how special he is.
Right.
So he believes he's like he's uniquely talented.
He's like it's uniquely brilliant figure.
He's God's gift to mankind, and he's going to personally save the right way the white race by talking it to a microphone and and you know, telling racist jokes.
Like that's his it makes perfect sense in that context that like once he finally cracked all the way up, this was the delusion he had, right?
That he is the center of this crazy gigantic worldwide conspiracy by the Jews and Antifa and and also the Nazis, right?
The Nazis that are worse than him.
So it's it's the government, it's the Jews, it's Israel, it's weave, it's like a ladder.
But I love that because weave is Jewish or like ethnically Jewish.
I don't even know how Jewish Weave is, but like he believes Weave is a Jew.
God, do we should we say who Weave is Andrew?
Andrew Aaronheimer, yeah.
He was like the the the tech support for the alt-right back in the heyday of the of the alt-right.
But like he thinks Andrew Anglin is involved and also Massad and the CEO of Grind.
I mean, since when has Anglin even been relevant?
I mean, nobody's nobody has seen Anglin in eight years.
Yeah.
Like he's he doesn't exist anymore.
I think he's still hiding in his parents' basement or something.
I think he just hasn't been outside.
Like he's you know, there's there's a strong contingent of belief that he's somewhere in Southeast Asia.
I think he's in Ohio.
I don't think he ever fucking left Ohio.
Yeah.
Why would you leave Ohio?
I'm sorry, if you've been trapped in a basement in Ohio for eight years to avoid service of judgment in a civil lawsuit, like you're not powerful enough to run an international conspiracy.
No, not at all.
Not at all.
You're not tormenting Christopher Cantwell, you know, hand in hand with the CEO of Grindr.
That's not happening.
Yeah.
It's it's the vast conspiracy of the grinder CEO, Andrew Angland, and the Antifa.
It all captured periods between it, and a slot, yes.
Uh, or just you know, it's it's the it's the um it's the uh arm meme with all four arms and those are the those are the we're all doing it to him.
Yeah, and it's all about getting stopping Chris Cantwell because otherwise he would be too powerful to stop.
It's it takes all of that might, you know.
Um it's like at this point in his career, why does he think anyone's trying to stop him?
Stop him from what?
Well, he hasn't got real.
I wanted to uh I did want to like mention this a little bit is that you know, when he went to jail for that um physical for that threat that he did, you know.
I was in he was in for what a year and some change, and then he had a couple years.
Um there was yeah, yeah.
Something like that.
Um he was arrested in January 2020, he got out in December 22.
Um, but some of that was pretrial detention.
So yeah, I mean, all told he was in for almost two years.
Right.
Yeah.
There was a sense that he's serving time for the cause that you and I know differently, but like on the far right, there was this sense that well, these are trumped up charges.
He just they wanted to silence him after Charlottesville.
Well, well, or they're they just have it out for the guy.
He's just because in yeah, etc.
etc.
etc.
He's doing time for the cause.
And it might have worked in 2019.
Right.
But he's doing time for the cause, and so therefore, let's you know they don't like him anymore.
They didn't like him even then.
But there was I think especially because if he had gone to prison for threatening me, I think that would have been way better for his reputation.
Oh, yeah.
And so it's a result of this investigation and the trial.
Nazis got outed.
People further to the right of Cantwell had to get on the stand because they got federal subpoenas.
It ended Paul Nealin.
It ended the bull patrol, right?
Because they were all outed.
They all had to talk to the fucking FBI.
So it's hard to go down as like, oh, I'm a martyr for the Nazi cause when like you ruined the career of a couple of Nazis.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, I guess what I was gonna say is there was a sense in like, say, like Matthew Q Gerbert, you know, Fort House.
Uh we got an I'll do it.
I'm doing an episode on him.
I'm he's got new lawsuits cooking.
Don't worry.
He's he's he's still he's still working on it.
He's still cranking him out.
If if you want to come back and talk about the lawsuits, then I'd love to I'd love to see it.
I've been keeping track, I get the updates.
No, I just listened to the podcast.
So, you know, you and I again we need to join forces more often.
Um because I don't listen to that shit.
No, no, I I listen to the shit.
It's I find it fascinating.
Um, but uh you know, the Daily Show uh, you know, kind of had this like soft policy of we just don't criticize Chris Camp.
They criticize everybody, but like yeah, he's doing time for the cause.
Like, let's you know, don't don't kick him while he's down, you know, etc.
Uh Gerbert, like at the end of like the most recent full house, you know, is like, yeah, we got a little housekeeping to do at the end, and we were I was kind of so says, and I promise you this audio exists.
I'm going to share it with you.
I wish I clipped it just so I could share it with Molly right now.
It's astonishing.
He's like, Yeah, Cantwell sent me this PDF of the he sent me the PDF of the the book that he wrote, the little short story he wrote.
He sent it directly to him privately?
Months ago, months ago.
Months ago, months ago.
And he said, I think this is the greatest thing I ever wrote.
Why did he do that?
Chris knows this is true.
About six months ago, he messaged me and said, Hey, I wrote this thing.
You should read it.
I think it's one of the best things I've ever written.
And it was it was that thing that he wrote.
And I started reading it and pretty I was like, is this gone uh oh yes, that this is going in a sort of gay erotica way, and I stopped and I just wrote back and said, Look, I have a personal policy of not consuming gay propaganda or gay pornography, and I just said I I'm not gonna read it, and I don't think you should publish it.
And again, so if people were going to punish him by outing him, why didn't Matthew Gieber do that?
Exactly.
Everyone, everyone was looking at this man thinking like it's not even fun to it's not even fun to fucking kick this man.
Yeah, there's no like you know, it's it's like a sick dog.
You're you know, you have to put it down, but you're not gonna like it.
The guys at full house absolutely should have outed him.
That's very much within their wheelhouse.
That's their MO.
And they didn't because it was too sad.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, and they do a lot of infighting, you know, they try to find out.
They love in the infighting.
They love everybody, everybody loves infighting.
Oh my god.
I don't know when they invite.
That's always fun.
He sent it to Gebert personally.
He sent it to Gebbert personally.
Why did he do that?
Because did he think that he would find it impressive?
I you know, I can only imagine that like Cantwell sees him.
It's kind of like it's like let's like Ben Shapiro or Matt Walsh or kind of those figures who like really wanted to get into Hollywood.
And Chris always mean he he had that stand-up comedy attempt.
He did he did comedy for a little while.
He like they they but giver of all people, right?
Like Giebert's podcast is about like the the joys and the value of white fatherhood and traditional white living.
Like, did you think this man was gonna like your gay erotica?
I think I think I think I want I just want to call him Q, Matthew.
There was a thing when this when his name was revealed, like there was a segment that was like, Oh, is this the original Q and I guy?
It's like, guys, you don't know what you're talking about.
It's fine.
It's fine.
The Q is for like Quinton or something.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
It's like Matthew Q Gerbert.
Um there's a thing where I think he was like maybe the one guy who was like had any degree of respectability who's had any like contact with Cantwell at that point who had anything nice to say to him.
And I suspect that that may be like he just thought like this is like a great thing that I've done.
I just want you to read it.
And Gerber like Gerber's disgusting.
I mean, he's just gonna say not for the reasons that you and I are, but because it's gay content and get that get that the fuck out of my sight.
He's he's very much opposed to that.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Very publicly.
Yeah, very very publicly.
I mean, you know.
Like his whole thing is like gay people shouldn't exist.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's I mean, that's what's one of his top ten things.
No, I mean, it's kind of another top five, I think, really, honestly, you know.
I think race mixing would be higher than that.
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
All right, so I don't know, where do we think this goes from here?
So right now he has he has pending charges in New Hampshire that I can't actually find the fucking docket.
New Hampshire has the I don't know, New Hampshire doesn't have a greatly digitized docket system.
So I don't know, but he says the trial is in March, so maybe that's true.
Maybe he's going on trial in March for those assault charges in New Hampshire.
Um he's currently out on bond on those charges and on the charges in Massachusetts.
It's like 10 different felony drug charges.
Um the misdemeanor assault in New Hampshire is probably less of a concern than the I think upwards of a decade he could get for some of those charges in Massachusetts.
Yeah.
Um he's convinced he can beat it all, but he is really hampered in his ability to fight the charges because he's stuck in rehab and he believes that one of the other men in the rehab facility is part of the gang stalking conspiracy, which like imagine group therapy sessions.
Imagine you're just some fucking guy.
You're just a random guy trying to go to rehab in New Hampshire, and during group therapy, some weird bald Nazi is screaming at you that you're gang stalking him.
Like that guy's just trying to get well.
Some guy stuck in this rehab facility getting screamed at by Cantwell who believes he's Mossad.
I mean, I just imagine I I just imagine how much, despite that, you know, people in 2017, people thought he had talent.
I know, I know.
But people thought he had talent.
And they really kind of liked his content.
They w so they and then even though they thought he had talent, his like personality defects were so large that he alienated literally everybody.
And then even when he got new, even nastier friends, he alienated all of them as well.
I can only imagine that as a meth addict, it's only not in not probably not improving the abrasiveness of his interpersonal skills.
I'm just imagining like and no disrespect to anyone who has been addicted to any substance, you know.
We we have great respect for it.
It doesn't improve your personality.
But I can imagine like Beth addicts kind of scurrying away from Chris Cantwell.
Even yeah, the problem he's talking about like smoking crack at the orgy, and it's like, dog, you ruined the vibe at that hotel.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like everyone else smoking crack was just vibing.
You wrecked it.
Absolutely.
I love I love the fact that he has so much um so much fat Viagra on him, you know, that he's got like hundreds of doses of Viagra.
Because one of the things he was bragging about in that terrible audio clip is like how long he could fuck.
Well, isn't that part of the m the the appeal of having sex on meth?
I don't know.
I've never had sex on meth.
So I mean neither have I, but I I've from what I have heard, you can have sex for a very long time on meth.
I don't know.
That's maybe it.
I'm innocent.
Don't contact me about this.
Yeah, I mean, I I the thing I know more about Chris Cantwell's dick than I ever really wanted to.
Dog.
I tried to get a quote about Cantwell's dick in the New York Times once, and the editorial board nixed that immediately.
It was like a really great line.
I even sent the guy audio of him bragging about his porn habits.
Um He's fucked up how much I know about this man, mostly against my will.
Yes, very much so.
Like I'm just trying to make sure he's not hurting people, and I now I know now I know what he does on crack.
Yeah.
Well, I I'm gonna I'm gonna end.
I mean, I I think we'll wrap it up here, and I just wanted to end with To me, sounds like it's like it's less like I want to have sex with men, but that men are available to me very easily, whereas women are not.
That's what I'm saying.
And like the way he describes it, and like in the past, the way he's described his like need to just come, his need to just get it out there, and like he just has to ejaculate so many times a day.
It does start to feel more like sex addiction than like anything else to me.
Yeah, but but most people would just masturbate or hire a sex worker that I feel like once you've had sex with over 100 men since you last saw a woman naked, that's not just because you need to bust.
I mean, I'm not an expert.
I'm not an expert on what guys are doing, but we're not we're not diagnosing from afar.
But I think he's I just wanted to raise it as a possibility.
He's been posting nonstop for a week about how much he loves fucking men.
And he but he's always like, but like not in a gay way, but like not a gay way, though.
And it's like, I don't know.
I read your erotica, and it sounded it sounded in a gay way to me.
Yeah, it's not it's sounded pretty gay.
Yeah, it's a you know and that's and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
But it sounds like you think there's something wrong with that.
And that's I mean, if he he if he has been gay since he was a teenager, imagine if he kids just could have accepted that about himself.
Because he's what he might have been a better person.
He's 45 years old.
He's 44, he'll turn 45 later to this.
He turns 45 in the middle.
In November, okay, that's healthy for both of us to know.
Well, he I'm 45, he's my age, so you know it's easy to do.
But if he's he's been having gay sex for 30 years, yes, he's had sex with I would say 100 times more men than women.
Yeah, probably.
Given that give God, how many women do you I mean that's probably that's probably like single digits, I think at this point, right?
It's single digits, right?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
And I think you know, part of his his turn to madness was that woman allegedly like his one of his villain origin stories.
Obviously, I can't verify that this is true, but his villain origin story is that that woman aborted his child, right?
A Puerto Rican woman aborted his baby.
Thank God she did.
I mean, if that even happened, right?
But like, yeah, and he mm-th there's that one woman who lives in Maryland who keeps getting committed to a state hospital that I know he had an on again off again thing for a long time.
Um, there's the woman that he was dating in 2019 when he got into trouble with the bull boys, but yeah, I mean, like single digit, single digit number of women.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, it's just yeah.
I mean, and if he's having this much, yeah, no, God.
It just it just if you're getting your dick sucked by four men a day, it's because you like getting your dick sucked by men.
Yes, indeed.
Um I'm just I don't think that's controversial to say.
No.
I mean, he's fucking at this at this point.
This is a Nikki Crane situation.
This is a Nikki Crane situation, Nazi by day, cruiser by night.
We've seen it before, it's not unusual.
Yeah, yeah.
But no, so as far as what's next for him, I was just pulling up the docket for his case in Massachusetts.
Um, it looks like yesterday he tried so he's been saying because he believes the gang stalker is in the facility with him that he wants to leave, he can't leave because he's there on court orders.
Um so it looks like yesterday he filed his had a he had his attorney file a motion to amend his bond conditions, and the judge said no.
So he is still in that rehab facility, and the judge says he has to stay there or come back to jail.
And that's kind of where things are for him now.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I guess to be continued if you know, if things continue down this path.
I mean, at this point, it's almost like man, it's like every time he hits a new low, I just think, well, now there's just no much like I just thought he's gonna get sentenced to something and he's just gonna be in jail and he just it'll just that'll just be the end of it, you know.
Like it's just he'll he'll come out in 20 years and you know, would it just he'll just he'll just be an old man in a in a in a in a on a with a cane who is was a lifer or something, you know.
And it's sad to say, like, obviously, I'm not a big supporter of the carceral state, but like think about his options at this point.
I think going to jail for a few years is the best thing that could happen to him.
Yeah.
Because if he beats these charges, he's just a homeless meth addict, right?
Like he can't get a job, he can't go back to being a famous Nazi because nobody cares about him anymore.
Like I mean, and and I mean, like, I I'm just wondering like one of the things I mean again, just like the social safety net kind of questions about this.
Like, I mean, it's a sad it's a sad indictment on society, right?
That like the best thing that he can do is go to jail.
Well, you know, and sometimes I mean again, sometimes that's the case.
I'm just like he's not an unintelligent.
I mean, he's very stupid in the ways that you know, but he's not unin he's not un incapable, like he can't wash dishes at a in a pizza hut or something.
Like, I mean, it just seems like the problem is is he like he doesn't think he should have to.
Right.
Well, I don't think you know if Two years ago, if two years ago when he got out of prison, right?
He's he's been sober for a while because he was locked up.
If at that point he was like, All right, I'm gonna get a job washing dishes.
He could have just been a guy.
He could have just gone back to being a person in the world, but he refused.
He refused.
He wanted to be a famous Nazi.
And it he's never gonna get that.
Especially not now.
No, I mean, I think at this point that that ship has sailed.
Like, you know.
Um but again, he's always just blowing his own life up.
Yeah.
It's sad to watch.
It's sad to I mean you know, I know we're we're laughing, we're having a good time.
It's funny to watch your enemies fall, but like he's fallen so far that it's not it's not even fun anymore.
I'm sad for him.
Yeah, and and I mean the day to day is I mean, we're laughing.
We we laugh on the I mean, you know, we say this all the time.
We laugh at this podcast because we laugh so we don't cry, you know, because it's difficult stuff, and we're just it's just uncomfortable to talk about this stuff.
But like watching this day by day, it's like it's just it's it's sad, it's depressing.
It's just like you know, it's a a very weird emotional place to realize like you know, like I was saying when I was watching him like really start to lose it earlier this year, and like nobody's paying attention to this man anymore.
He's not famous, he's not important, he's not podcasting.
Even people like you are like you're you don't care about this guy anymore to feel like I'm the only one watching this man fall apart, and it's like I feel sad for you.
Yeah, you have hurt me so badly, like on a personal, like one-to-one you and me in the arena, like you have tried to hurt me so badly, and I feel nothing but pity for you.
It's so strange.
Yeah.
Well, and it just it speaks to the like fundamental patheticness at the at the heart of of Chris of who can't well kind of always has been ultimately.
And I think the thing that there's a moment where I was like, I might be the only person in the world who is concerned that you will die tonight.
And that's so sad for you.
I think if you had reported that to me, like if you if like if he had died that night and you would come to me and you'd said I can't I can't tell you how I would have felt.
I think I mean, like, because there were times where I think in the last couple of months you and I have discussed, like, do I have a an ethical obligation to help him because I think I'm the only person watching him hurt himself like this.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And I don't I mean, you know, and I don't know the answer to that.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's I mean, I I don't think anybody I don't think anybody listened to this podcast was holding against you to not like reach out with social support to help me.
I mean I didn't tell you.
I'll be honest, I didn't.
Yeah, no, I didn't need I mean, you know, there I mean we both of us could have done something and you know we I didn't do anything.
I mean, if you had announced if you had told me like, oh, you found an obituary or something, I would have been well, it was always gonna end this way.
That may be what's next for him.
Like he's if he gets out of this facility, he's going to hurt himself or someone else, and I know that.
Well, that's you know just what it is.
Obviously, we don't want him to hurt himself, but I would much prefer that than him hurting someone else.
Um because if he does Yeah if he if he does that, that's probably gonna be I mean that that's gonna be real bad.
Yeah.
I mean, thank God he doesn't have access to a firearm.
Yeah.
But I I I will not speculate as the possibilities, but you're right.
It is very sad.
He doesn't have the money to buy any legal gun and he can't buy one legally, so thank God.
But I don't know.
It's a sad story.
Um, hopefully hopefully he will get the help that he needs in his court mandated rehab facility, and he will come around and come through the psychosis and realize he's not being gang stalked by the CEO of Grindr.
And I don't know.
I will probably continue to have a vague idea of what state he is in for the rest of one or both of our lives, just in case.
But yeah, no.
Well, and you'll keep me posted.
Yeah.
And um maybe you'll come back and we'll discuss him one last time.
But I think uh, you know, it sounds like this is we're nearing the end of like can't well news as being a thing that anybody cares about, you know.
Like I think people glommed on to this segment, people really like it because it was in a bombastic.
Because he's bombastic and you can kind of play audio clips when he's so he's always doing something crazy, like going to prison for threatening some other Nazi.
You know what I mean?
Like crazy stuff.
But this isn't this is just sad.
This is just, you know, like, yeah, no, it's just yeah.
This is I mean, this is a man who's obviously hated himself for a long time, and he unfortunately turned that outward into a hatred of the whole world.
And he he hurt a lot of people, but I think the person he has hurt the most is himself.
So Yeah, that's at this point that's probably true.
All right.
Molly, tell us where we can find your more of your work on the internet.
Yeah, if you want to be depressed by me on in a you know long form uh podcast format, you can check out Weird Little Guys available wherever you listen to podcasts.
It is um people people say that it's like a like a sort of spooky bedtime story vibe.
You know, I do my and my NPR voice and there's there's music beds.
It's very soothing, except I am talking about Nazis.
It is it is one of those things where occasionally I will I will just have my like podcast things playing as I go to bed and then like weird little guys pops up and I know the intro, you know, and everything.
And it does start to like lull me to sleep just a little bit, like, oh yes, this is you know, but then of course for me, I it's this would not be the only time I've fallen asleep listening to Nazis.
This is it's got a good vibe, it's got great music.
I don't know.
It's much I I was I was listening to uh I happened to like fall asleep listening to the Daily Show one day and I'm listening to the free stuff now.
Um it wasn't it was fine because uh it's just A if I'm listening to it and I'm listening to it at like 2x speed, so I've got these guys like yelling in my ear at like super high speed.
No, it's not, but I'm but like I'm having like nightmares where I'm like listen, like Mike Enoch is yelling at me.
And what lulled me back to awakeness was they do in the uh in the free feed now, they do um the Jesse jumps in and he does like little ad reads for the podcast.
Hi, hope you're enjoying the show.
You can get this for f for a you know paywall at TRS.com, etc.
And when I heard that when I heard that thing, it's like I woke up and I'm like, oh, that was the ad.
Okay, God.
But it's you know you have to subscribe to premium to get more dreams.
Yes, exactly.
No, that was yeah, no, that was bad.
But um anyway.
Anyway, thank you so much for coming on.
What little guys is a great, brilliant show.
I really love chatting with you about uh this horrible, horrible man.
Please come back whenever you have anything else that you want to share with us.
Um and um I hope you have a wonderful time feeling sad for Chris Catwell.
Feeling pity for Chris Catwell, let's put it that way.
