What do we know about Tyler Robinson? What don't we know? What are people saying? Why are they saying what they're saying? And again, who was Charlie Kirk really? Content Warnings Episode Links: https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/charlie-kirk-suspect-tyler-robinson-roommate-trans-relationship-65wvslwr8 https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/us/charlie-kirk-bullet-casings-engravings.html https://archive.ph/2025.09.14-154103/https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/14/us/kirk-shooting-suspect-ideology-partner.html https://www.thedailybeast.com/charlie-kirk-shooting-suspect-romantically-linked-to-trans-roommate-gov/?utm_campaign=owned_social&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=facebook_owned_tdb&source=TDB&via=FB_Page https://howdypolitics.substack.com/p/you-cant-eulogize-charlie-kirk-without?r=39ezrs&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true https://www.expats.cz/czech-news/article/prague-cardinal-to-hold-mass-for-slain-conservative-charlie-kirk-sparking-debate-in-czechia https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/charlie-kirk-assassination-maga/ https://www.garbageday.email/p/charlie-kirk-was-killed-by-a-meme https://web.archive.org/web/20250911142246/https://stonetoss.com/comic/turning-point/ (NOTE: Stone Toss comic, link to Internet Archive) https://www.bugeyedandshameless.com/p/who-was-charlie-kirk-anyway https://www.wsj.com/us-news/who-tyler-robinson-charlie-kirk-suspect-814fd21f https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/it-was-one-of-us-utah-governor-spencer-cox-hoped-charlie-kirk-shooter-was-not-from-us-faces-backlash-online/articleshow/123858257.cms https://boingboing.net/2025/09/12/1350-word-feature-about-the-appeal-of-charlie-kirks-beliefs-doesnt-specify-them-or-quote-him.html (NOTE: A good read) https://web.archive.org/web/20240112121724/https://www.wired.com/story/charlie-kirk-tpusa-mlk-civil-rights-act/ (NOTE: Another good read) https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/10/magazine/charlie-kirk-american-right.html https://www.liberalcurrents.com/not-all-victims-should-be-martyrs/ https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/douglas-murray-and-charlie-kirk-agree-there-war-white-people https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-and-tpusa-are-fueled-far-right-extremism Show Notes: Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay ad-free and independent. Patrons get exclusive access to at least one full extra episode a month plus all backer-only back-episodes. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper/posts Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618&fan_landing=true IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod Daniel's Twitter: @danieleharper Jack's (Locked) Twitter: @_Jack_Graham_ Jack's Bluesky: @timescarcass.bsky.social Daniel's Bluesky: @danielharper.bsky.social IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1
Again, I'm not saying he definitely wasn't a Gorper.
I'm saying we don't know yet.
We don't have that data yet.
And the fact that he's not using Gruper memes, he's not using, you know.
If there were Gorper memes, I would know them.
This was this guy was like in t was deliberately doing this for an ideological motive within this far right internet space.
I would see it and instantly know exactly where it came from.
And I don't know this.
This is this is an internet culture that I'm not that I do not partake of.
Um that does not seem to be um highly Nazi inflected.
So again, from what we know right now, I don't think this is a gory bird.
Music And welcome back to another edition of German, German, oh German, you are a language that some people speak, but not me, not yet.
Uh not yet.
So also known apparently as the as the Charlie Kirk Death Hour at the moment.
Anyway, that's breaking updates.
Yeah, it's fine.
No, no, absolutely.
This is something we wanted to make clear.
This is not becoming the Charlie Kirk Death Hour.
We are both officially very sick of talking about this guy.
Um and we are not a news podcast in in the sense that we are not, as we often stress, the place to come for hot off the presses news.
But um this this does seem to be the way the story is unfolding does seem to be interesting.
Um, and we recorded the we recorded the last one before we had any idea about anything about who the perpetrator was or anything like that.
And so um what we realized is like literally between the time that we recorded that and the time it was released, suddenly there were a whole lot more details released.
So they they caught somebody by which you know they're taking a victory lap, but what actually seems to have happened is that his family turned him in after they realized or you know again, this this person hasn't been given a trial, you know, hasn't been convicted of anything.
Everybody exactly just assuming that he's the shooter at this point.
I mean, uh, you know, again, I'm not commenting on the likelihood of that.
It's not my my area at all.
But this uh this young man has been arrested.
Uh as a Robinson Taylor Robinson is his if we're naming him, yeah.
Yeah.
As a result of his I feel like I feel like we can uh like we're in a place where we can name them there, you know, we're not hyping the thing or anything, you know.
Um, anyway.
Yeah.
And uh yeah, of course, that has been a a massive um news cycle uh around his arrest.
And let's let's dive straight into this.
Sure.
Yeah, both sides are racing to claim him for the other team, so to speak, to put it crudely.
Um people on the right, because immediate before he was even caught, they they were declaring the shooter just somebody on the left or and or trans, and they seem to they seem to talk as if that's just the same thing now.
Um after this uh this young man was caught, people on the left, by by which I mean sort of left of center people on blue sky and YouTube that that I'm familiar with, uh, which is really a very small number of people in in real terms, um, raced to do the other thing to claim him for the other side.
And right, like immediately, immediately going like he's a groiper, he's gotta be a grouper, etc.
You know, yeah.
Um yeah.
Now it he does from what we know, and we have various reports now, including th messages supposedly scratched onto bullets, one one of which being the bullet that was fired, and others being bullets that weren't fired, and and other things about him, he does seem to be, at least to me, and I imagine to lots of other people, a confusing and contradictory figure.
Um Daniel, what what what do you make of of him based on what we know so far?
Well, we know he's 22 years old.
Um he did turn I believe he turned himself in after he spoke to his family, like his family confronted him and he did turn himself in, but he has not been cooperating with authorities beyond like he turned himself in, but he hasn't been from uh everything I'm seeing in the news from every you know, from official statements, he's not really talking, he's just and so everybody's just going through his social media history and such.
And um, you know, apparently um interestingly, he was um well, he's 22 years old, he was a heavy gamer.
There was an old Facebook post I think that his mom put up in like 2013, like the new gaming rig when he was, you know, when he was 10 or whatever.
Um and that uh you know making commentary like, well, yeah, so that happened literally like six months before Game started.
And so he would have been stewing in this gamergate nonsense for basically his entire life for his entire you know his entire online life has been like consumed with gamergate.
And so there is part of the ASU is like, yeah, obviously we don't have a a conversation with him, but I don't know what games he was playing and what you know forum posts he was in.
But yeah, no, it it does it does seem like he kind of grew out of this gamer culture.
And I'm sure that Gamergate was a part of his formative years.
You know that his family is uh are all registered Republicans.
It's Utah everybody's a registered Republican in Utah.
Um but he was he had not voted so he didn't vote in the uh in the 2024 election um and so he in in some states you don't have to like uh officially register with the party sometimes not at all and sometimes if you vote and uh apparently if he had voted in Utah he would have had to register as one or the other but he didn't vote and so we don't know which so we don't know where he doesn't he doesn't have a voter right he has a voter registration but it's not it doesn't affiliate with a party so that much is kind of up in the air.
And I think you're right.
I think that I mean there was immediate thing I mean you know before we even found the guy before they even found the guy um you know there was this immediate um pressure to like well this is a trans anti-fa obviously this is this is someone who hated Charlie Kurt because they're on the left you know and there's been reporting where you know uh you know the uh the uh governor of Utah is coming out and saying like yeah there were clearly anti-fascist messages written on the thing and like no it it's actually a little more confusing than that.
Um I don't know should we talk about what was on the bullets maybe and uh can I yeah I'd like to go from there.
If if we can yeah because as you're right the governor of Utah has stated publicly along with saying that he's not cooperating that he has a left a quote left leaning ideology.
And a lot of the media are reporting the same, and they're reporting some of the stuff on the bullets as straightforwardly anti-fascist.
They're reporting, you know, I've read lots of things like one of the bullets apparently had written on it, catch this fascist or fascist catch.
Yeah, that's the one that they, hey fascist, catch this.
Yeah.
And that's the one that everybody is, you know, immediately, well, of course, he's got to be antifa if he's for that.
apparently had Bella Chow written on it.
Bella Chao is of course famous Italian anti-fascist or song uh dates back to I did not know I did not know it's still not that that dates back to partisan anti anti-Nazi and anti-fascist uh activity during Second World War they appropriated that song um but apparently that's that's fe that's been featured in a recent Netflix television series just in case there was any danger of things being clear about what was what that apparently is where he might have heard about that.
And of course, today's fascists, some of them anyway, online, are steeped in information about the history of fascism and anti-fascism.
And, you know, some of them will employ anti-fascist slogans and anti-fascist memes as jokes, ironically, as smokescreens.
And some of them actually don't consider themselves fascists.
They consider the other people on the, as we would see, other people on the same fascist right that they don't like as fascists whereas they themselves are not so this is not immediately as clear as it as it might seem to for instance the governor of Utah.
Yeah well I mean that I that's just I also have more comments about Spencer Cox is the name of the governor of Utah.
We have other things that I'm um I'm really uh well I can't say disappointed in but we have more commentary on on what things that he has to say about about this about this young man and certain people he is romantically involved with.
But um let's let's do the bullet casings first.
I think it's important to describe it.
So one casing or one cartridge, I believe the one that was actually fired, so I don't know if the order of them meant anything to him or whatever, but it's notices, bulges, ooh, what's this?
And it comes from an online furry kind of webcomic.
I found the webcomic.
Somebody had posted the webcomic that it comes from.
And it's used as a troll in these online gaming communities.
And so people are like, oh, is he a furry because he's quoting this comic?
And it's like, don't think so, because basically what these irony-poisoned, internet-poisoned kids do is they just use these memes.
They use these things as in-jokes between each other.
Can I just read you the headline that the New York Post had referring to that?
Absolutely.
The real quote, New York Post headline, the real meaning behind trans-sex furry meme online.
on rifle round that killed Charlie Kirk so you can see what they're going for in the way they're reporting this.
Yes.
The very, very respectful New York post.
I say that with great irony.
Um, the thing is, and this is like, this is like, I think the thing that we just have to get from this.
And if you like learn anything from this, then you need to implore your new services, um, to hire internet culture experts, um, people who are in these, in these realms, people who know this stuff.
Or just some journalists.
That would be a start.
Well, journal.
Well, so the New York post is particularly bad on that, but I mean, it is like, it is like, like five-year-olds who like use email at work and never go on the internet.
are like trying to interpret these things like well I googled this and it it's like from this furry thing.
Yeah and no like I mean you could be a decent like person and like make that mistake because like this is deeply irony poisoned internet culture.
And actually having somebody on your staff who's just a regular well paid member of staff who can cover these things for you and who understands how this shit works that's going to mean that suddenly you can actually deal with these topics in a realistic manner.
And maybe you know um I think that's important.
I think that's something that that we've learned is that you know you know who never go online do not understand how to interpret this stuff.
I mean I I'm not in this world I I I rely on other people who are more deeply in this world to understand it.
Um I'm obviously highly internet poisoned I've been on the internet every day since I was 15 years old but uh you know I I I was bored in the dock and you know but uh you know um I I think I think I mean just the reporting has been really disgusting on this and I think partly it's like the New York Post it's just they're just looking to spear furries and trans people.
Yeah.
And a lot of the, even the more responsible sober reporting, doesn't understand it because they just don't understand it.
So, I mean, they're just like, well, it seems to be a reference to this.
I mean, you know, one of the other casings said up arrow, right arrow, and three down arrow symbols.
And that gets reported as, oh, that's an anti-fascist symbol because it's got the three arrows.
It's like, no, this is some...
It's also been reported as a trans symbol.
People have been repeating a sort of transgender symbol that they found somewhere online where, you know, you have the circle and you have one arrow pointing up and, you know, like a riff on the old symbols for me.
male and female yeah right yeah yeah I've seen that kind of stuff before no this is a very specific meme from the game Helldivers 2.
I've never played any of the Helldivers games I don't know what you know it's apparently like a bomb launch sequence again it's internet meme it's something that these kids in their Discord chats they just trade this stuff back and forth all day long.
It's just an internet meme.
And it's something that like the 18 year old who's in that chat who thinks it's funny and like the grown ups don't understand this stuff.
So it's I mean I I would argue based on what we know right now I'm argue he's performing for that crowd in the same way that the um the Christchurch killer and the Buffalo shooter etc um were performing for their audiences.
Now that was a much more like directly politically engaged.
Um, whereas I think this seems to be more, um, just for the memes and just for just, you know, just, just for the fun of it.
Um, and was less like kind of directly ideologically motivated.
Um, from what I understand at this point, I could be mistaken on this.
Um, but, uh, you know, the other ones, you know, the, the, hey, fascist catch is apparently making fun of, uh, Kirk for being a fascist or not being fascist enough.
He could go either way, you know?
And then of course you mentioned the Bella Chow thing which uh was quoted in the um it appears in uh the Netflix series uh money heist which apparently it's like a big Netflix original um it's originally from uh it's originally in Spanish so I'm planning to watch the money heist in the original language pretty soon I just haven't gotten started on it yet but uh um so yeah that's what the that's that's of all the ideology that we get from this kid from this man from the 22 I don't know call him a kid I don't mean that to demean him or to you know some innocent or whatever.
I just for everything we know from this guy.
Um that's that's all the politics we have from him, basically.
Except for you know, he fought with his family sometimes about politics, but they I mean again, that could go either way.
He could be like a Nick Funtis fan, he could be an anti-fascist, and he's arguing with his normally conservative Utah parents.
Who knows?
I mean, at this point, we can't know.
There's just there that we cannot answer this question of you know there are what is his ideology, you know.
There are some photographs of him apparently wearing a sort of riding around a a Donald Trump costume, one Halloween.
And the the 2017 or something when he was I mean, a child, I don't know, at least he would have been 14 or something at that point.
And then Trump would have been recently elected, you know.
I mean, uh it would have been his first year in office, and Halloween would be, you know, kind of shortly after Unite the Right, kind of, you know, like a month or two, two six weeks after Unite the Right.
I don't know.
Like it's just like he wore a Donald Trump costume, and that again that could be interpreted either way.
I mean, I would just could be interpreted.
We don't have like a directional like thing for this.
It's like, is he mocking Donald Trump?
Is he just think Donald Trump is funny because he's 14 and Donald Trump is kind of hilarious if you're if you're a 14-year-old irony poison teenager.
Who's I mean, again, we just don't have we don't have the data on this, and the family isn't really talking.
Um I did see, interestingly, and I don't have this link in front of me, so I'll have to send it to you.
You can put it in the show notes, but um uh he was chatting with his Discord after the shooting, because he was in that like Discord chat and he shot Charlie Kirk, and then uh was memeing with them, and like he didn't tell them he was like, it's like somebody posted in the thing, it's like, God, that looks a lot like Tyler, doesn't it?
And it's like, oh, must be my daffelganger, ooh, yeah, like that sort of thing.
Um, and uh, you know, kept uh, you know, kind of commenting about the about the shooting and just kind of joking around with his buddies, never saying he did it, but then like he had knowledge that sounded like he knew more than cops did.
And um, I think part of the reason that he got and and you know, apparently some of these people were people that knew him in real life, like old like childhood friends of his that have just stayed in the Discord chat together.
But we have no idea who all those people are.
Um the uh Discord is not like disclosed, you know, those those handles, and so we can't like kind of figure anything out about it.
But like oftentimes he's online discord chats.
We'll have people from all over the world.
I'm in a couple of Discord chats, and it's literally people from all over the freaking planet.
So I mean, this is not you know, it's not it's not unusual.
Um this is this is very I don't know, it's very ordinary 22-year-old who likes video game stuff, you know, and it's just hard to um it's hard to make a direct like ideological comparison here.
I mean, obviously he shot someone who was very active in politics.
He also shot someone who is very well known to go to college campuses, um, and and debate people.
Um, and like all of his peers would have known who Charlie Kirk is because at least you know, he he did drop out of college, but he was there for a while, and uh he may have been to Charlie Kirk events before this one.
Who knows?
You know, the fact that he spent one semester at college is what the right immediately leapt upon.
Um Dinesh D'Souza was on that like a fly on a turd, you know, which of his professors radicalized him, you know.
Several of them have been doing that, as if you're you know, I think he was like a a technical vocational student or something, and he did one semester at a at a college in Utah.
Um I I don't imagine he was exposed to much you know critical race theory in that time, actually.
Um the the other thing that's been reported is that he apparently has or had a trans roommate, and yes, some people have been reporting this as important, yes, his uh him being in a relationship with this person.
I don't actually know if this person is trans.
I don't know if they're uh a trans woman or a trans man.
I've seen it both ways in in what I've seen, because of course some of these people are probably misgendering this person.
Apparently Spencer Cox has confirmed this for whatever that's worth.
Um and Tyler has been reported as saying that he he he hates Charlie Kirk because he he spreads hate.
So you can see uh a possible narrative starting to emerge there.
Yeah, so I have an article here from the Daily Beast.
Um, my understanding is that it was a trans woman, right?
That it is his roommate and that they are romantically involved.
I believe that the um hold on, let me give me just a second here.
Yeah.
The other thing I wanted to say was that this does strike me as opportunistic.
And this is, you know, the only reason Kennedy gets shot by Oswald is because Kennedy happens to to be driven past the warehouse where Oswald happens, this this particular guy who's d ready to do something.
He happens to be working there.
And here you have apparently a young man sort of in a similar sort of situation, ready to do something.
And this guy, Charlie Cook, happens to turn up at the college that's near where he lives, you know.
I think if that hadn't if this if that event hadn't been, it's me speculating, obviously.
But I s I strongly s suspect that if this event just hadn't happened to be scheduled in that particular place, uh none of this would have happened.
Yeah.
Which does tend to sort of run against the idea of this being a particular obsessive grudge.
But again, we do not know.
Okay.
So from what I understand, it seems to be true.
The problem is that like a lot of the uh reporting is kind of going through the Spencer Cox fellow.
Um and uh I was under the impression that some of that had been confirmed independently, but now I cannot find that uh that reference.
So I'm going to um to delay uh making a direct statement on this.
But from reporting, from reporting that seems solid, um, but that may be coming out of the Spencer Cox's rancid little asshole on this topic.
Um, I believe that it is true that uh that Tyler Robinson was dating his roommate and that it is a trans woman.
Um and uh Spencer Cox claims to have been incommunicato like in communication with this person.
They have not named this person, um, because they're not involved with the shooting or anything, they had no idea about it.
Apparently they were horrified when they found out um, as you know, as romantic partners found these, you know, Marina Oswald was was horrified when she found out that the RV Oswald had done.
Yeah.
And then, you know, spent the rest of her life pretending it was a conspiracy.
You know, you gotta love that.
Um, but uh yeah.
So again, in the movie, she knows it's a conspiracy, and then the Warren Commission convince her that it wasn't.
The reality, the exact opposite.
But we're not doing that again.
We're not doing that again.
We just can't we can't get away from GFK, man.
Uh it's uh it's a high-powered rifle, so therefore we just have to talk about DFK.
Anyway, um, no, this is being used.
This is the thing, this is the thing that's like really disgusting, is that at first before we knew anything about this kid, before we knew anything about anything, we had no identification.
We they were finding like 70 year olds and thinking that was the shooter because that was the first thing that was reported as a person of interest.
And you know, immediately, within within minutes, within hours, it's it's gotta be it's gotta be a trans person.
They would use the the T Sler.
I'm not gonna use the T Sor, obviously, but you know, like it's um Yeah, Nancy managed to use that or whatever statement.
It's gotta be first it has the the shooter has to be trans because all mass shooters are trans now.
They just decided it all matters.
That's right.
In in their in their alternate reality that they've chosen to live in, all mass shooters are trans now.
That's just something they know.
That's just a fact.
Because there have been a couple of mass shooters who happen to be trans, you know, um, because trans people are people, and some of them do despicable things, which I in case we did not this was a despicable thing to do.
I'm not, you know, we're not fans of this.
Um at the same time, uh so at first it was well, it's obviously gotta be a trans person.
And then when they kind of get photos of the guy and it's like, it doesn't look trans to me.
You know, obviously never sometimes you can't tell, or but it looks like a dopey little white kid, you know.
Um, and then it becomes, well, it's trans ideology because, you know, look, we've misinterpreted these things that are on the that are on the bullet casings.
And so it's gotta be a trans ideology now.
And then when that doesn't seem to be true, suddenly they're retreating again, and like, well, no, it's it's his trans roommate has infected his brain and made him like do trans these shootings.
So it's it's still based on the so the the common denominator here is hey, it is not surprising to me that a 22-year-old was um well, whether it's romantic or whether it's just a roommate situation, a whole lot of people in their late 20s are are playing with their gender these days, whether they remain trans or whether they transition back.
This is not a judgment.
This is a judgment-free zone on all that stuff, but a whole lot of 20-somethings play around with their gender these days.
This is not unusual for a 22-year-old to be friendly, emotionally invested in the life of a trans person.
That is not, and there's no indication whatsoever.
And again, if we find out, then I will be happy to discuss this further.
But there's no reason at this point to think this has anything to do with the reason for the shooting, that he was romantically involved possibly with his roommate
trans shoots Charlie Kirk who hates strength who hated trans people now maybe there's some there no we can't we cannot comment on this because we don't have the we don't have a motive yet you know we we just don't we don't know I'm guessing not I'm guessing if he was trying to do this for his you know partner there would have been a a more explicit statement to that effect that would that would be my guess is it would be trans rights bitch or something like that that he would have written on the on the on the casings.
The fact that it's not indicates that that is not the reason for this to me.
But again, we don't know.
I could be wrong.
I have been wrong before, but I don't know.
I find this whole thing.
I find this whole thing.
Just I find, I find it like the killing is one thing.
The, the way that the kind of the right wing is responding to that, but like response was supposedly responsible journalistic outfits and just drinking the sewage that Spencer Cox is saying hook, line, and sinker and persisting.
pretending that he has any particular insight into this because they don't have any information except for what he's feeding them like you know like a baby bird their baby birds taking this regurgitated crap.
And I don't trust it at all because Spencer Cox very clearly has an agenda here.
He wants this to be about trans people and the entire right wing media and a whole lot of the mainstream media are kind of running with that.
And I'm I it's just you know the absolute you know this is the Charlie Kirk won that day because you know suddenly the entire government apparatus that he spent a lot of hours many many hours trying to push it against trans people is now being even more pushed against trans people and there's no evidence that this kid had any kind of particular inclinations one way or another towards trans people um except if he's a friendly and romantically involved look there are Nazis who are friends with trans people.
Like there were members of Adam Waffen division.
So I feel like we should I feel like we've kind of been answering questions they get some questions on the internet.
And I guess we should start with um David Gerard friend of the show one of our very first fans.
Yeah I think he may have been like uh in our first like five listeners or something like that.
You know he was a he was a fan of the show before it was a show.
I think he's kind of the way it worked.
So he sent us a he first of all he sent me a a reply on blue sky and they very hurtfully recorded it for us.
They all quack like ducks, but fine delineations between the various varieties of mallard we see in this discussion and the wing feathers.
I mean, e.g.
how groopers thought dude was a groiper, even if he's technically another variety, which, fuck's sake, keep me up with these fucks.
Ah!
Yep, that's a question, I think.
And obviously that is intentionally, intentionally, you know, of the story.
But I think the intent is there, is like, so who the fuck was this kid?
Was this ideological or not?
And I think the honest answer, I think we've been answering the whole episode, and that's kind of the thing that's on everybody's mind, is tomorrow.
my mind this does not strike me as overtly ideological I again I could be wrong um I don't think that saying this kid you know that that the groper wars happened in 2019 and therefore this guy was a groiper.
Um a that was six years ago this kid is 22 he would have been 16 or so then yeah um probably not like I mean maybe hanging out in Nick Flint is I mean Nick Fluentes is just a big figure for a lot of these online figures.
I'm sure he knew who Nick Flintis was, whether he's like an accolade to Nick Flintis.
Well, that seems less likely to be.
Yeah, this is it.
It's not an either or.
It's not like, you know, he is or he isn't a Groyper.
You know, it's not an on or off switch.
And if he's not a Groyper, then there's no influence.
There's no association at all.
You know, he could have heard of Nick Fuentes.
He could be partly, you know, familiar with some of this stuff without being, you know, technically, whatever that would even mean, a groiper.
yeah yeah I mean again we can we like it's not like they have memories you know well I think some of them do but oh they do okay this is I think I think the inner circle they I mean there there are like you know Fluentes has this little hierarchy of people I mean if you're yeah if you're working with him if you're like going to his events and stuff I mean it's small it's not but like Nick Fluentes is enormous reach in among people of that age and among you know that that world.
That's one of the problems of Nick Fuentes, just having that kind of reach.
I mean, it's like you know, it's like it's like if it was the 90s, it's like, well, he watched friends, and so clearly, you know, he shot it because Chandler being told him, so it's like, no, that's not yeah, that's not how this works.
Um, you being familiar with Fuentes does not mean that he's like a descendant of the group or wars.
Um, and again, again, in the in the in the Sherlock Holmes sense of the the the dog that didn't bark, you know.
We can look at what isn't on the showcasings, like he doesn't say Jew lover, for instance.
He's not doing straight Nick Fuentes memes.
He's not doing these are these are internet poisoned, like I mean, and like yeah, he only has like you know, um some of the other shooters have had uh, you know, um like many, many like you know, like they draw on like the way Brenton Tarrant like drew on his rifle within the white marker and stuff, and they draw all these kinds of um, and some of them are just incoherent because it's just it's incoherence.
It's all just like backing, it's it's just being against the system in in whatever way, and so they just use it to do the thing.
Um, you know, the fact that this is like you know, one shot, one kill.
This was not a mass shooting.
Um you know, he brought for you know, if this is admitted to be intended to be a mass shooting and just like creating chaos, um, that would have been a very different kind of incident in my mind.
Again, I'm not an expert on this, you know, that on that kind of criminology, but you know, this this does not feel like you know the Christchurch massacre is uh it's a very different kind of thing.
But I think going out in the world and wanting to see, you know, wanting to do violence in the name of like seeing seeing people scatter, I think that was that was probably a big part of them, part of the the motive here.
Um and again, we don't know, but you know, we can we can infer from facts, and again, if it had Jew lover written on the side of these of these casings, you go, yeah, okay, well, that's that's a fascist, you know.
If you've been, you know, death to Israel, you know.
I mean, of course they'd read that as a left-wing thing.
Oh, it's just you know, generic anti-Semitism, you know, um, but again, it's so internet poison, it's so irony poisoned that um you cannot make a direct ideological meaning out of this whatsoever.
And I think that's the real answer is you know, a we don't know enough yet, and what we do know from what previous people have done this sort of thing.
So um, again, I don't know, is that clear?
I think I think it's pretty obvious at this point.
I think it's as clear as it can be, given the the the lack of clarity that reality is presenting us with at this point.
Yes, yes.
And you know, in a week or two we will know more, and maybe we'll we're we're not gonna revisit this every every four days, but like we'll obviously be discussing this as we know more.
We're just trying to update you.
Um, just because like I think the real thing is we just find um a lot of the reporting on this and a lot of the online, you know, on all sides, like look, yeah, left and right, you know, they're you know, the blue sky people going, well, this is clearly a grouper, you know.
I would like to believe that too.
It would be it would be very nice and comfortable for me to just say he's a fan of Nick Fuentes, fuck Nick Fuentes, take Nick Fuentes off the internet, but etc.
etc.
Unfortunately, you know, I'm honest and I have to respond with what I see.
Yeah, and again, I'm not saying he definitely wasn't a Groper.
I'm saying we don't know yet.
We don't have that data yet.
And the fact that he's not using Groper memes, he's not using, you know, if there were Gorper memes, I would know them.
This was this guy was like in t was deliberately doing this for an ideological motive within this far right internet space.
I would see it and instantly know exactly where it came from.
And I don't know this.
This is this is an internet culture that I'm not that I do not partake of.
Um that does not seem to be um highly not sea inflected.
So again, from what we know right now, I don't think this is a groper, but you know, we may, and if we and if we do find out more, I will crow on that.
But I'm telling you now, do not just start blaming Nick Fuentes for this.
Name think foot blame Nick Fuentes are the things Nick Fuentes actually did, yeah, and actually does every day.
Blame him for the real shit.
Don't blame him for this.
There's the there's no evidence yet.
So let's let's let let's be a little let's be a little bit more honest about that.
You know, and again, I've only seen it in a couple of places.
This is not like a regular thing, but I have seen people kind of jump into that conclusion, and I want to just say we cannot jump to that conclusion yet.
It's just not it is it is not based on facts and evidence, as they used to say I'm law on order all the time.
You know, conclusion not based in facts and evidence.
So it's just the that's just the case.
Um all right, we should answer a c we had a couple more kind of comments, jumping through those real quick.
Um we did have somebody um and I'm just gonna highlight this.
I'm gonna put these two links that this person provided.
Um it's not really a question, just something you might miss.
And this shows how the Christophascist far right is truly international.
A Czech cardinal will be holding a mask for Charlie Kirk, and then there's a link to a um expedit C D C Z um domain name, and apparently the Slovakian prime minister, and of course, um Orban in Hungary is kind of also like singing the praises of uh of Charlie Kirk.
Um and uh that's I mean, you know, I don't follow I don't track far right politics in Europe and and in the rest of the world.
That's you know, Craig Johnson, that's his speed, you know, we like Greg Johnson do that.
Um, and I focus here.
Um love you, Craig.
That's not that's not a Digo Craig Johnson, of course.
It's incredibly important work.
Um, but no, I I I am not I'm not unaware of that.
Yes, no, that is it is very um clear to me that um it became and I think what you know kind of more mainstream right-wing sources, what really happened um here in the like in the media on Fox News, you know, it's and um you know Megan Kelly and like those kinds of people is Kirk is no longer Kirk is isn't a person anymore.
He's a symbol, he's this thing they they're using to um you hear you see this a lot, and this is why we this is why I was really like really pushing in the in the last Charlie Kirk episode against this idea that he was just a reason to be.
He was just he would just like to spar with people.
He liked to he like to really get in the ideas, and he was just asking questions and and like no, he was he was producing far-right propaganda, racist Islamophobic propaganda, and we we covered that in a lot of detail and we can cover it in a lot more detail.
I went light on the guy, believe me.
That would it would be simple.
And I've seen I've seen a lot of stuff in the last like two days where people went a lot further than I did on that.
I was deliberately trying to hold back just to go like, look, we could tell you how bad this guy was just from one episode of this podcast.
You know, we do not have to go looking for stuff to to find like horrifying things.
And that's really just listen to a little bit.
That is really struck people, I think.
I've seen several things where people have posted about that last episode we did, where people have reacted very strongly to the fact that literally what you did was you you played people the last literally the last thing he said on his last ever podcast.
And it I think it has struck people, yeah.
He you know, and it he didn't know that was gonna be his last show.
That was just business as usual, just another that was just Tuesday for him or whatever day it was, you know.
And that's what he went out doing.
That's that is struck with listeners, I think.
Well, please share it widely, you know.
Speaking of, you know, it uh the way it's been received abroad.
I can tell you the British media have really latched onto this.
The Daily Mail, I mean, it's just no surprise really, but at the same time, it kind of is a surprise that this relatively obscure figure that most Americans uh really probably hadn't heard of, let alone most British people.
Daily Mail are running with this, they're doing you know, effectively our sort of British, you know, in a more polite, slightly more polite accent.
They're doing the New York Post's narrative, that the the anti-trans hysteria thing.
The BBC, the BBC did uh uh they got a documentary up about Charlie Kirk and the assassination up almost almost the same day.
Uh really disproportionate to to the direct relevance that this has in this country.
You know, just one more comment from from Blue Sky, um, which is again kind of more of a uh comment than a question.
Um and part of what we've already answered it, but this is somebody who also um asked a question for the main episode for the one that we did most recently.
Um said uh um I don't know the students, I don't know the gender of this person, and uh we will keep them anonymous.
Appreciate it that I kept them anonymous the first time.
Said maybe enjoyed, is it the word, but I enjoyed last week's Charlie Kirk episode.
Thanks for quoting quoting my question, by the way, and keeping me anonymous thoughtful.
As a follow-up, what do you think the truth is?
Read the assassin's political leanings, and what will the right do about that now that they can't say trans lefty?
Well, a they're just gonna keep saying trans lefty.
Like that's just that's just the truth.
They will just keep saying it, yeah.
Whatever the truth turns out.
Whatever, I think God I feel like we're doing this.
We're we're doing the same episode again.
Um, but you know, the butler of Pennsylvania, the guy, the the kid that shot Trump, you know.
Um, they just use the word they tried to kill him.
Hey, just uh just uh uh yeah, ill-defined they, and that's that's it's just gonna be well, obviously it was a trans killer because you know, the fact that it isn't the fact that it doesn't appear to be, and the fact that this is there is no evidence for that, they just believe it now.
And so they're just going to continue to believe it, regardless of what you say about it.
Um they are they already have it programmed into their brains, brains that every bad thing that happens to them is because of a trans lefty person.
And therefore, it's just they said it, Trump said it, people believe it.
That's the end of it.
So um it's disgusting that that's true.
It's disgusting that that's true.
But it is true.
What Charlie Kirk did for hit during his life and what is now being done in his name, um, against trans, it's it's it's the vilest fucking thing.
It just it really, it really is.
These are just ordinary people trying to live their lives authentically, and they get it's just there everything wrong in the world just gets just gets heaped upon trans people right now.
It is, you know, in in the in the in the way, you know, and let's not let's not mince words here, in the way that uh using that word about Jews was in 1920s and 30s Germany.
It's it's exactly it's exactly that bad.
Um my heart, my heart, yeah, my heart literally breaks.
Charlie Kirk didn't believe in empathy.
He he had a quote said, like, you know, empathy is a sinner, empathy is like is a weakness or whatever.
I I do not believe that.
I have I have empathy.
A Christian, and a self-professed Christian said, Oh, empathy's this new wishy-washy woke invention.
We don't need we don't need any of that.
We went so light on Charlie Kirk.
I mean, it's just sorry, we we we laugh to we laugh to not cry, but you know, I really cannot state how strongly enough how vile I find this rhetoric.
And it's just it is not going to stop.
It is only going to get worse.
So um hey, um, in more responsible sections of the right, they will correct that record.
Um you would find, you know, in some places they will, but not on the MAGA, right?
Not not not fans of Charlie Kirk, not not fans, not like diehard fans of Donald Trump, you know.
Um, you know, the Bill Crystals of the world, they'll they will, you know, they will understand that that it's not true.
You know, David French will understand, you know, very, very sober, thoughtful conservatives on the New York Times will will acknowledge that it would that there's no but those people with no influence on the right at all, in other words.
It was no influence on the right anymore.
No, no, it's you know, Charlie Kirk had a billion times the influence that these people had.
These people are like cuts.
Well, this is in this modern.
This is something I wanted to mention, actually.
Somebody on Blue Sky had a good post about this.
They said Charlie Kirk was very influential.
The media keep talking about how influential he was on young people.
Uh they keep talking about, oh, you know, he helped get Trump elected because he he helped shift, you know, the the young vote, which means the young white men vote.
Uh true, but he was he he was far more influential on the Republican Party, on Republican politicians, that and and movement conservatives, that's where he was influential.
So all these people that are just finding out who he was, you know, he was a fanatical partisan for far right, the far right version of quote unquote conservatism, MAGA and Trump and all that stuff.
And his influence was on that party.
So the fact that you know he played he played a huge role.
He wasn't the biggest factor or the only factor.
I'm not saying that, obviously, but he played a huge role.
He was one of the people that played a huge role in the MAGA takeover of the Republican Party.
So, you know, if you're looking at America today and you think everything is literally crazy, everything is insane.
The the economy is being driven into the into the into the you know off a cliff.
Uh, you know, and and all these things that are you know, ice agents on the streets, um, literally killing people, by the way.
Uh yeah, regardless of everybody's lovely pious declarations of political violence has no place in America.
ICE are now killing uh guys, you know, on the streets because they got a parking ticket twelve twelve years ago.
Um, if that worries you, Charlie Kirk, he played a very large role in that happening.
He was cheering that on.
Yeah, hey, he was cheering it on as a media personality and helps make it happen politically, yeah.
Through his through his influence in the Republican Party.
He is not solely responsible for this, of course.
It is not Charlie Kirk was not secretly pulling the strings, but he was highly influential.
I mean, I don't know, you when you tell like normies, it's like it's like, oh, he was such he he had a family and he has children, and isn't his wife gonna be said.
We'll talk about his wife in a second.
Oh, yeah.
Um I just I just feel for the family.
It's like Charlie Kirk was on a personal like text chat, like a group chat with like Donald Trump's kids and like JD Vance.
There were like he that's that's who he considers friends.
Yeah, in Peter Thiel, and well, he was paid by Peter Thiel as well.
But like he's in, I'm sure he was in a lot of group chats, but I mean, like we know because he would talk about oh yeah, I got a group, I got a chat from I get a chat from you know from JD Vance.
I was asking JD Vance about it the other day, and he said this.
I mean, he was very open about this, you know.
This is not secret.
All right.
Erica.
Erica Kirk.
Erica Kirk.
I said, I said in the last one.
There's not a crew.
Literally has three K's in her name, which is just that's entrapment.
I'm sorry.
That's not fair.
Yes, indeed.
Yeah, I mean, um, yeah, we'll just start uh online meme like you know, Twitter, like the old school Twitter stuff.
You should start, you know, the way they do Trump where they lowercase the T and then do uppercase the R to make it rump, you know.
Uh, you should just uh when you type Erica Kirk, just everything should be lowercase except for the three Ks.
That's the you know that's the way that's the way to get her.
Yeah, clearly.
That's that's that's really gonna make a difference.
That'll put an end to her career.
Well, she I said I said we don't have uh a clear successor to Charlie Kirk, and you know the organization might be a little rudderless.
And it's like, no.
Um Erica Kirk is stepping up.
She's in a very adroitly, steps right into that.
I'm sure she believes all the things that Charlie Kirk used to believe, and she's gonna be running the organization.
She's gonna be doing the thing.
I don't know if she's gonna do the podcasting and stuff.
Um, but she has she made a very clear public statement um that she's she's taking the rights and she's gonna be in charge of it.
And so now we know how that problem gets solved.
Um she's gonna she's gonna take she's gonna take control of it.
The thing is for me, it's like Erica Trump, uh Erica Trump, Erica Kirk.
Not yet practically the same difference, you know.
It's given a few years.
Oh my god.
Oh my god.
Oh, Baron is gonna marry an older woman.
Oh god.
Well, oh well that get rid of Melania and then a matchmate in heaven.
Oh my god, please, please.
This world would be anyway.
Um God.
Um, but no, she's gonna be taking over.
And um, you know, anybody who was who was, you know, feeling sorry for her because like here's where I was here's what I was going with this.
She uh appeared on the show occasionally.
I think I've heard her voice a few times, but really she's not and Charlie Kirk's whole ideology was like women should not be leaders, it should be men who are leaders of the household men.
He kind of believed women shouldn't vote.
He believed that the like this household vote idea, like really the men are going to be voting, but they vote as a household, and then you know, like so so you know that that's that's the kind of Christophascist Charlie Kirk was.
Um, and now his wife is his obviously very demure, doesn't have any political opinions of her own, of course, just you know, just boasts of her husband's brilliance and just like shines in his reflected glory.
Um, she's gonna be running turning point now, so maybe she wasn't as innocent as some people like to pretend she was.
I didn't see as much of that as I did for the kids.
I think you can legitimately feel I mean, it sucks to lose your father when you're like singular.
That sucks.
I don't wish that on anybody.
Um, and they're too young to know any better, but you but uh Erica Kirk knows better.
She knows she knows she knew she knew exactly who her husband was, and obviously she's fine with it because she's going to just take the reins of the organization.
And I highly doubt this is now going to be electing democratic socialists, you know, because suddenly Erica Erica Kirk is in charge.
No, she's going to continue with the exact same political project that her that her that her well, yeah, going by the speech she made.
I I don't see a huge change in editorial policy on the horizon.
No, there's no there's no there's no great uh thing lost there.
I did want to cover a little bit, you know, kind of um how the far right is responding to this.
Um, because I was listening to this just before we got on this call today, and I was listening to um the political cesspool on the political cesspool that we covered it in our southern nationalist episode.
I think that was episode eight or so.
Um so way back early we covered it.
I listen to it every week.
I've mentioned it here before.
Um, so I'm gonna I'm gonna play you this clip, and it kind of shows you how James Edwards of the political cesspool, um, who has has been in the white nationalist movement since he was 22 years old.
He volunteered for uh for Patrick B. Buchanan's campaign um back in um back in 2000 when running on the reform ticket.
Um he starts his podcast in 2004.
Um, and it's running on AM radio ever since.
He has interviewed everybody who is anybody in the white nationalist movement.
Um I don't know that Mike, you know, I think Mike I did appear on it once, uh, but it's a little more family friendly for for like the show of boys, like literally everybody.
Um he is personal friends with David Duke, like the uh this is this is that man who is much further right, Charlie Kirk was.
Um, just to be clear, um openly anti-Semitic, denies the Holocaust, the whole the whole nine yards.
I Was quoting Charlie Kirk's last tweet positively, as in wow, Charlie Kirk really was saying the right thing here.
He really appreciated it.
He knew he knows that Charlie Kirk was not as far to the right as he is.
And oftentimes um these guys consider Charlie Kirk a cock on these matters because he is in the pocket of Israel, in the pocket of the Jews, etc.
Um, and so they don't like Charlie Kirk for that.
But when he says something on topics they like, they agree with him 100%.
Really, it's changed since last week when the Irena Zarutka de Carlos Brown video went public because you know that happened back in August, uh 24th.
The the murder of Irina Zarutka.
And there's a correlation to Charlie Kirk's assassination by what appears to be a radicalized left-wing uh transsexual.
Charlie Kirk's last tweet before he was murdered on September, uh September 10th, was he said this.
If we want things to change, it's 100% necessary to politicize the senseless murder of Irina Zarutka, because it was politics that allowed a savage monster with 14 priors to be free on the streets to kill her.
It's eerie to think, James, that that was her la that was uh Charlie Kirk's last tweet.
I I noticed that, Paul, and it is, and I intend, and I know you do as well, and so many others to honor his wishes in doing exactly that because there is a reason for doing that, not for scoring political points, but to save lives.
It will save lives to talk about this, and let's talk about it.
It's about the murder of a young Ukrainian woman.
She is 22 or 23 years old in um Charlotte, North Carolina.
Her name is Arina Zarutska.
Um, from what I understand, um, there's no reason to think that this young woman was not a perfectly wonderful, she was she was beautiful, you know.
Uh she had she was a refugee from Ukraine, but working in a sandwich shop.
Parents, when they were discussed when they were in interviews that they did with the FBI, they had BI translator because they don't speak English yet.
Um and it's a senseless murder.
It is and and but because the perpetrator um is a scary looking black man with a large with a long rap sheet, um, and because it was a senseless murder, the right wing is just like every black person is doing this.
And as we showed in that audio that I played at the end of uh the last episode, this is not because like this particular person is it's all of these people.
They are all savages who are not fit for for human conduct, and we need to lock them up and throw away the key and execute them, ideally.
Um that that was his politics.
That's that's that's the man he was.
And actual the actual white nationalists read that tweet and bravo applause.
You are finally getting you are getting done what we want to get done.
You are engaging with our political project because we hate these people too, we hate them just as much as you do.
We just kind of don't think there are some good ones.
We just want all of them to go.
Um, whereas Charlie Kirk would be like, well, I have black friends, I have you know, and you know, um, but he he does.
He doesn't.
I mean, not I mean, he may, you know, right wingers who agree with his little project, you know, because again, there are bad black people because black people are people, you know, it makes sense to me.
That is again the legacy of that's how things are spitting out now.
Is that is because uh mainstream organizations, because the New York Times and Ezra Klein goes out there and says he was a debater, he was just a person interested in discussion in moving politics the right way.
Um, because they do not, and I have seen a lot of people, especially in um there's a great piece of boing blind that goes through this.
I mean, I'll put some some good links.
I'll give you a bunch of links you could have put in the show notes.
Um because the mainstream organizations, because he's mainstream news outlets, because they produce propaganda that is, well, Charlie Kirk is just he was just a debater.
It's a senseless murder.
He was just he was just having a conversation.
Um again, you cannot you cannot speak of Charlie Kirk that way, and then actually play things that he said in his day-to-day life.
It's just impossible to do.
And I thought I think it is it is the role of everyone who is listening to the sound of my voice, and everybody who, you know, get this word out there, like make people actually listen to his words.
This is what he actually said.
This is not what you what what mainstream outlets are pretending he said.
Let's let's talk about what he actually believed and what it was actually mode advocating for.
And if you're a fan of what he advocated for, that's fine.
But now we're having the honest conversation.
And that's a conversation I think is worth having.
But pretending that Charlie Kirk was this like sainted figure who was just interested in discussion and debate.
It is fucking bullshit.
If you're listening to the sound of my voice, I'm sure you know it's fucking bullshit.
And I just want you to, I want that message of anything that I've ever said on this podcast, that needs to be that needs to be like number one right now is Charlie Kirk was a moral monster.
He was not this figure that the New York Times and all these mainstream organizations, and even like Fox News, et cetera, is trying to pretend he was.
No, no, he was he was a disgusting, vile person with toxic politics who believed absolutely in the vilest, vilest of things.
Um, outside of like an open white nationalist.
Yeah.
And it's incredibly there's there's a quite a good piece that liberal currents.
We'll put that in the uh in the uh links as well.
Um yeah, I think it's incredibly telling.
They're trying to package him posthumously as this lost civil rights leader.
Of course, the civil rights in question being tacit, they never say this, but tacitly what we're talking about is white civil rights, which is basically so basically you're just saying, you know, uh a crusader against anti-white racism.
And we know what we know what that means.
He wants he little he literally was on record as like, I want to turn back the equal rights amendment and that sort of thing.
Like, you know, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that went a little too far.
Let's let's let's let's pull that back a little bit.
So what he actually is is an anti-civil rights campaigner.
Um, but it's just their version.
It's just the mainstream, you know, in 2025, American political and media mainstream is basically just recoding things that the the the far right, the Nazi right, was saying uh you know, a few years ago.
They're just saying the same things recoded, and that that that just uh in effect it just becomes anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
That's what they're saying when they call Charlie Kirk a civil rights leader.
That's what they're saying.
And it's very telling that in all this coverage which is trying to cast him in that way, they are for the most part being studious about avoiding actually repeating the pertinent or of what he did actually say.
Because precisely what you just said, you cannot square those two things.
You cannot portray him as this inspirational um civil rights leader and you know somebody who's doing politics the right way, engaging in the cut and thrust and debate and all that, and then actually quote him because you immediately give the lie.
They have to cover up in order to make that narrative work, what he actually was and what he was actually doing.
And in the process, they cover up the effect that that he has had on well, them a lot of the time.
Yeah, absolutely.
Obviously, we are going to have to continue discussing Charlie Kirk.
Hopefully, we'll not do a full another episode about this, at least not for a little while.
Um, but as we record other episodes, we will obviously kind of come in and kind of talk a little bit about what's going on.
Um, unless some major new development happens, I think this is the last we're doing like a full Charlie Kirk episode for the for for the foreseeable future.
