Daniel and Jack discuss who Charlie Kirk really was, and what he really said. Features Megyn Kelly's reaction to the breaking news, and clips from Kirk's shows, including his very last podcast. Content Warnings Episode Notes: https://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/133-the-mamdani-reaction https://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/102-rittenhouse-anarcho-tyranny-and-blood-libel https://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/episode-36-the-groyper-war https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/09/pardoned-insurrectionists-are-using-charlie-kirks-death-to-call-for-civil-war/ https://drwilliamhorne.substack.com/p/why-we-pretend?r=1hkrua&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/sep/17/turning-point-usa-professor-watchlist https://x.com/queenie4rmnola/status/1965960315587416268 https://www.the-end.news/after-kirk-right-wingers-double-down-on-eliminating-opponents/ https://www.404media.co/charlie-kirk-was-not-practicing-politics-the-right-way/ https://meidasnews.com/news/charlie-kirk-wants-coca-cola-sponsored-televised-executions-of-trumps-political-opponents Show Notes: Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay ad-free and independent. Patrons get exclusive access to at least one full extra episode a month plus all backer-only back-episodes. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper/posts Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618&fan_landing=true IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod Daniel's Twitter: @danieleharper Jack's (Locked) Twitter: @_Jack_Graham_ Jack's Bluesky: @timescarcass.bsky.social Daniel's Bluesky: @danielharper.bsky.social IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1
This podcast was recorded the day after the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
Since it was recorded, it has been massively overtaken by the news.
But as I often say, people don't come to this show for the latest news.
This episode is not about the news event as such.
It's about the background to the news event.
I can barely get my arms around the enormity of this.
Charlie is such a dear man.
And he's such an important cultural figure.
He is one of the bravest people I know.
He's been so unfairly demonized by his detractors.
At every turn, he's been villainized by people who disagree with him politically.
And that messaging can sink in.
I'm not blaming anyone.
I don't know exactly who did it, and I know the motivations are, but I know that a lot of hate has been stirred up for Charlie.
that is grossly disproportionate to the messaging he's bringing to this world And welcome to If It Weren't For Us, you'd all be speaking German.
Our podcast.
Yes.
So this is kind of an emergency gathering, I suppose, to record.
A luminary figure of American politics has been killed.
And um we get to talk about it.
Yeah.
Um I'm told a sort of MLK level figure.
Oh, believe me, you haven't heard the audio yet.
But uh, you know, yes.
Um we're we're we're gonna go there.
A towering figure of American politics, of American social life, a towering intellect has been lost.
So we are, of course, talking about the fact that uh yesterday, as of recording, Charlie Kirk, the fascist propagandist Charlie Kirk, was murdered in uh by rifle, apparently.
Yep.
At a uh turning point his organization, TP USA, Turning Point USA, one of their sort of uh university campus debate show thing-emy jigs.
Yeah, it was the Utah.
It was the first event in what was going to be like a 15-day event called the American Comeback Tour.
Um, he's been advertising it for the last couple of weeks, I think.
Um, and it's just like one of his he does these events, he actually goes around the country like uh well, he did he doesn't anymore.
Um, I don't know.
They might wheel him around and have a flight on like debate college kids from uh okay, yeah, that's a little that's a little borbid, but uh he spoke hundreds of times a year in front of crowds of various sizes.
And most of those were public, so this is not an unusual thing for Charlie Kirk.
He he regularly would um record those and even put them on the podcast feed.
They just became episodes of the podcast, the events that he did.
And so I've listened to a whole lot of him talking in these kinds of like big big crowd um setups.
So Yeah.
So yeah, he's uh he's on stage and he's as as I understand it, he's in the middle of talking about gun violence, gun massacres, and uh specifically responding to a question from the audience about trans shooters.
Yes and uh somebody says to him, you know, do you know how many uh gun massacres or mass shootings there have been in the in the the states in the last 10 years, and he he is in the process of he is responding with a racist dog whistle where he says are you counting gang shootings or something like that.
And immediately after he says that he is shot through the neck once.
Yes.
And uh I haven't seen any of the footage, but I'm told that it's horrifying.
It's it's it's really bad.
It's it's yeah, I've seen it.
Of course it is.
He was he was shot through the neck with a rifle.
You know, that's gonna be horrifying.
Um and he died in hospital, uh, I think an hour or a couple of hours later.
He is Yeah, I mean they they announced it, I mean, pretty pre I mean it's l it really was it really was the kind of thing like anybody who saw the footage was like, oh no, he's he's dead.
Um and we'll we'll get there.
We'll get there.
Megan Kelly, I'll just uh wet the whistle of the of the audience here, and you know, Megan Kelly went on the air after the shooting, but before the death was announced.
And um so we get live reactions, like the the actual live thoughts, um, as as they thought he was going to die.
Maybe, or maybe he wasn't going to die.
So we're going to get to listen to a bit of that today.
Um, in fact, you heard a little bit of that on our code open.
So yeah, the closest you get from Megan Kelly to unfiltered honesty, I suppose.
Um Charlie Kirk is he's kind of one of those figures who's been haunting this podcast the entire time.
We actually, he was on our most recent, or one of our most I can't remember.
But one of our most recent episodes where we talked about Zoran Mamdani, and uh we we played sections of a uh discussion between him and Megan Kelly about Zoran Mamdani, where he came out with just a just a a litany of again, you know, racist Islamophobic comments and uh lies and and so on and so forth, because that's just that was the man's job.
That was his career.
He was a professional liar uh in order to further a racist fascist agenda.
That was his identity.
That was his job.
He devoted his entire life to that.
A Chris a Christian nationalist uh agenda as well, like very explicitly Christian nationalist.
Yes, a Christophist agenda, absolutely.
Yes, yes.
And we we kind of talked about this a little bit before we started recording.
He has popped up at the periphery of this show a few times before.
Yeah, he came out uh he came up, of course, in the course of the episodes or one of the episodes that we did about Kyle Rittenhouse.
He did, yes.
Uh a uh a a gun murderer who Charlie Kirk championed and promoted and lionized and turned into a public messiah.
Yeah, look at how cute, look at how cute his dogs are, was essentially what that what that um interview was all about.
Um yeah, I think that's I think that's part of the bit we played.
I didn't go back and re-listen to it, but we did uh we he has he has been on this show before.
We have we have discussed Charlie Kirk briefly, so uh obviously not uh found guilty in court, but but certainly by my measurement, a low nut uh murderer with a rifle.
Um and it was also he was also in the uh grouper war episode that we did, because of course um the the immediate conclusion that the entire right has jumped to, and uh as far as I can tell, most people on the left actually is that Charlie Kirk was killed by somebody on the left.
Um we do not know.
That is the truth.
Yeah, yeah.
There's been a lot of speculation and rumors and so on swirling about, you know, well, there was a whole fucking clusterfuck about, you know, have they arrested somebody, have they arrested two people, etc.
etc.
etc.
And more of that.
I mean, I don't know if we're gonna talk much about this, but there was a statement about bullets they found with trans ideological.
Oh, it was one of them some shit like that.
That's one of those things, the Wall Street Journal.
I have that, it's linked in the show notes.
I don't have a quote from it, but uh ammunition and Kirk shooting found engraved with transgender anti-fascist ideology.
Um just treated as as fact, and then like little like law enforcement came out like an hour later, like, yeah, that's a bunch of shit.
We'd never said that, you know.
So the journalistic standard at the Wall Street Journal.
Um, hey, we will uh publish all the uh materials about um the the Jeffrey Epstein Dom Trump uh birthday card sex thing.
Um we'll publish that brave on that.
Um also we'll uh just smear trans people for no reason.
So yeah, you know of course.
I mean, you know, you take the good with the bad, I guess.
Jesus Christ.
Actually, you don't have to hand it to the Wall Street Journal.
Anyway, no.
So that is that is linked if you want to, if you want to uh go view it, you can go view it.
So yes.
Indeed.
The point I was working around to was that Charlie Kirk was the subject of a long-running vendetta by uh the Gropers, Nick Swenters and the Groipers.
Uh so it is at least as possible that it was one of them that that shot him.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, uh so I did I did um put out a thing on my blue sky.
This is the first time I've tried this, so maybe we'll do it in the future as well.
Um, but I did put out a you know, kind of like kind of thing, hey, hey, if you got questions you want me to answer, this is kind of right on one of those, so let's just someone I know I'm not gonna name this, I'm not gonna name these people, but you know, uh everyone's assuming the assassin was a left radical and MAG are pushing that narrative, but how feasible is it that it was a far-right actor?
Dick Fuentes supporters regularly disrupted Kirk's campus events for not embracing a harder line on immigration and rejecting openly homophobic and then it cuts off, But um language or something.
Um that's really what what was it to do there?
Um yeah, so we're not gonna speculate.
Um I don't have any data, I don't have any reason to have any data.
Um, we don't know on this.
Um, you know, I I mean in my heart, I I feel one way about it, but you know, we don't know.
And since we don't know, I don't have any facts, I'm not gonna report anything.
Um it very easily could have been a right wing person.
Like there's no reason to think this was, you know, some antifa some some trantifar or whatever, you know, like the um, you know, uh like some trans radical anti-fascist was out there with a with a rifle.
No, there's there's no reason to to assume anything at all at this point, and so there's no reason to to comment on it, except like it very easily could have been a right-wing supporter, like uh probably not a Nick Fuentes type, but like um, you know, one of the accelerationists, you know, one of the one of the um gulu types that we used to talk about pretty regularly.
Um very easily could have been a descendant from one of those groups.
So there's no reason until we have more data, there's no reason to discuss it.
Um, but when we do have more, presumably we will discuss it at some point on this podcast.
So but that's all I'll say about that.
So you what I was what I was saying was that he's he's one of the figures who's kind of haunted the the periphery of this show as one of those people who've been very much involved, of course, in the the rise of fascism in the United States over the last few years, and certainly connected to the kinds of people and uh subjects that we generally consider our beat, but not quite on our beat.
You know, it's it's one of those things.
People have often said, Are you going to do a Jordan Peterson episode?
Are you gonna do a Ben Shapiro episode?
And our attitude, and you know, Charlie Cook's, you know, he has at least in the past, I think he's become more radical and more tied in with the extreme over time.
But he's he's kind of been one of those people where our answer to that has always been not quite our focus, really.
Yeah, well, I mean, I don't so it's it's weird because in 2025 we just have to kind of discuss everything.
Um, but for a long time I kind of thought, well, because it's gone mainstream.
Our focus is now merged with the mainstream.
So I'm working on this.
I've been working on this Megan Kelly monstrosity for so fucking long at this point that my brain is growing my ears.
I'm so tired of listening to Banky Kelly.
We're gonna listen to Megan Kelly.
Uh you already heard some Megan Kelly, but we're gonna listen to more of Megan Kelly today because it's easy to I've always got I've always got a Megan Kelly clip the available to me.
Um but uh yeah, we're doing some of these more normy figures because the normies there's there's less distance between the normies and the and the you know, right now not streamists is a term I typically use, but you can get kind of in context to understand where I'm going for.
Um so you there is um again, I have another question, so I can just kind of do it right now if you want.
We can I'm I'm responding to you, but I can also given the recent fractures appearing on the right wing shit spreader scene, Israel, Iran, Ipstein, dot dot dot.
Do you think this could be a moment of galvanization for the far-right media?
A kind of reset point.
Um, I think we're gonna kind of be answering that question just in general over the um course of the episode.
Um so I'm not gonna do like a full answer to that here.
Um, but um I think it is important to note that list somebody like a Charlie Kirk or a Ben Shapiro or um Charlie K Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro, Megan Kelly, uh Jack Pasobiac, um since like 2017, you know, they didn't attend United the Right.
They did they would never embrace like the and the openly anti-Semitic stuff that like the Daily Show or Nick Fuentes and you know some of those figures have.
And so there's a real dividing line between like do you blame the Jews or not?
And this is like a real kind of hard and fast line.
Um, you know, somebody like a Charlie Kirk, he has certainly said anti-Semitic things, but they were in the context of whether they're Jewish and they're Jewish and not Christian, and not that like all Jews are like the spawn of Satan or all shoot Jews or like genetically programmed to he leans somewhat closer to that direction, but he he fought that.
And a lot of that is because, you know, the the funding, you know, if you want to get funded by the megadonors, um, you have to tow the line on on Israel to a certain degree.
Um, and so like that's the thing that um, you know, Nick Fuentes is never gonna be invited into the big boys club, you know, for for that reason.
And so um, yeah, so so that there's a there's a dividing line there.
And I always thought like our dividing where we were was on the openly anti-Semitic side on the openly like face science junk, all that kind of stuff.
Um, and then as that stuff has become as as the world's gotten closer together, we just by definition were just covering more of the mainstream stuff.
But um we saw that Charlie Kirk was kind of boring, especially especially back in like 2019.
It's like he's not he's just he's just just using rhetorical tools, you know.
I mean, it's just it's just it's it's it's like debaters tricks.
Um that's how Charlie Kirk succeeds at it or succeeded in his career was he got really good at knowing how to debate.
And so um yeah like not in the not in the classical sense not in the sense of like actually like bringing compelling arguments but in the sense of like knowing how to work around and knowing how to um how to get the how to get the the word in edgewise etc you know like those kind of things I'm not I'm not good at that at all.
Charlie Kirk was a master of it.
You never have to handle Charlie Kirk.
He was great at that kind of bullshit.
Of course he was.
Yes, he was good at the thing that we call debate now, which is a sort of public performance of answering objections.
That he was good at.
He was good at gish galloping and evading the point and obfuscation and all that sort of stuff.
Yes, he was very good at that.
Yeah.
And in the slimiest way, like Mediasan, I've expressed some admiration for media son pure son is also slime dripping off his you know just pouring out of every pore of his skin just endless gallons of icore just just flowing from him like Niagara fucking force yes but media sod is a doing it and for mostly for purposes that we agree with and also it's a lot more ethical about it.
You know Charlie Kirk is just is just a slime ball you know but but again you know not to say again we're not directly comparing the two but you know man it would have been nice to get like a one-on-one debate with those two at some point I would love to see media side just wipe the floor with Charlie Kirk but alas we're not we're never gonna get it um but anyway um so yeah we've we've discussed Charlie Kirk a bit before um I don't know do we want to do like a little bit like a I did link to this old piece in the New York Times magazine.
Um it's from I think February or March of this year.
It's from earlier this year and it's uh you know kind of an in-depth like history of Charlie Kirk there's a uh podcast episode that's on the New York Times you know they're they're the daily podcast um that kind of goes into this detail I don't know that we need to like discuss who Charlie Kirk is in that kind of detail I don't like I don't talk about who he is kind of moving forward.
But if you do want us, if the audience does want us to kind of go through some of this history, I'm happy to do so as well.
But it's just not what we're here to do today, if that's okay with you, Jarek.
Yeah, sure.
But I think there is some value in stating a few things clearly.
Absolutely.
I agree.
But I want to state clearly who this man was.
This man was a fascist.
Yes.
This man spent his adult life being a professional fascist.
He spent his adult life as a liar, a propagandist spreading racism, sexism, Islamophobia, bigotry, hatred, cruelty, sadism.
He advocated all manner of just absolutely atrocious, indefensible things.
He was homophobic, transphobic.
He was evil.
That is the truth about Charlie Kirk.
He was evil.
So, you know, I just want to be clear about what we're talking about.
Yeah, no, no, no.
We're not, you know, not that I think anybody would think that we're going to be fans of Charlie Kirk here.
But the fact that he's not as far right as like a Mikey Inok or a Nick Fontes or a...
an endorangula does not mean he wasn't like an awful human being in fact due to the fact that he ingratiated himself from the time he was like 18 years old into the Republican Party and that he has had the support of the Republican Party and that he is at the end in turn supported the Republican Party it makes him more insidious in this in this kind of disgusting way um in that the the way that like things are coded and I think that what we're seeing I mean I guess we'll talk about the Esther Klein piece.
I guess we'll mention that.
Yes.
We won't go into this in detail, but, you know, Esther Klein put out a very, you know, I don't know.
I have a love-hate relationship with Esther Klein.
When he's good, I think he's very good.
And when he's not, I think he's just atrociously awful.
And here he's being, you know, he's doing the, aren't we above it all?
Here, I've got a quote, if you don't mind.
I can read a little quote to you.
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead.
This is from the piece.
You can dislike much of what Kirk believed.
And the following statement is still true.
Kirk was practicing politics in its exactly the right way he was showing up to campuses and talking with anyone who would talk to him he was one of the era's most effective practitioners of persuasion when the left thought its hold on the hearts and minds of college students was nearly absolute Kirk showed up again and again to break it slowly and then all at once he did.
College age voters shift sharply right in the 2024 election that was not all Kirk's doing but he was central in laying the groundwork for it I did not know Kirk and I am not the right person to eulogize him but I envied what he built a taste for disagreement is a virtue in a democracy.
Liberalism Could use more of his moxie and fearlessness.
In the inaugural episode of his podcast, Governor Governor Gavin Newsom of California hosted Kirk, admitting that his son was a huge fan.
What a testament to Kirk's project.
Gag me with a goddamn spoon.
That is the most, you know, no.
That is, and that's the it's just it's it's like emblematic of the way that people are talking about him on the in like the center and like the you know progressive circles in like the New York Times is like, well, he was a very talented influencer.
He was uh able to persuade he had the gift of gab.
What we're doing today is we're gonna discuss exactly what kinds of things he had to say with that persuasive rhetoric, etc.
So, you know, um because the other that is such absolute steaming fucking horseshit.
That is radioactive fucking toxic waste from Ezra Klein.
And I want to quickly read a response to Ezra Klein from uh friend of the show, former guest Marissa Kabas, who came on to talk to me about uh George Santos way way back when uh before she got big.
Um please come back, come back, come back.
We'd love to have you again.
Um she's great.
Um she posted this on Blue Sky.
It's kind of it's an email that she sent to Ezra Klein in response to that fucking article that she she turned into an open letter by doing this.
Um this is her.
Ezra, your piece I'm constantly reading her on this on this show.
I don't know.
It feels it feels weird somehow, but I don't mean it that way.
You're a fan, it's okay.
We're fans, we're not creepy old men, we're fans.
It's fine.
I'm just a fan.
I'm just an appreciative reader.
Ezra, your piece on the death of Charlie Kirk was reckless, insulting, condescending, and worst of all, a piece of hagiography.
For someone who claims to honor history and context in your work, it reads as if it was written by someone who respects neither of those things.
What does it mean to practice politics in the right way?
For whom does a tasteful disagreement benefit?
Certainly not the vulnerable populations, trans people, black women, and more who Kirk routinely targeted with hate speech and calls for violence.
When I was a college intern at NBC News Washington in 2008, I would watch your MBC MSNBC appearances on the monitor in our office.
At that point, I could only dream of having a platform not like yours, which has grown exponentially since then.
Now that I have a platform, albeit a much, much smaller one than yours, uh, and I couldn't fathom using it to gaslight the country into believing a hateful man stood for a public good.
Maybe it's time to consider how you're using yours, Marissa.
There you go.
Brilliant.
Exactly.
Just applause.
Applause.
Yeah.
No, no notes, no notes on that.
Great.
Great governance cabinets.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Um, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, it's like it's it's one of the things that like you said to me many years ago, and that I've made like part of it's like one of the things that like spoke most deeply to me.
I think I think you could toss it off, and I said it to you.
It's like, you know, you said that politics has contents as well as forum.
And it's like such a such a perfect encapsulation of like that.
I believe that that is like the core of like how I approach my work in this podcast and in this world to some degree.
It's like, yeah, I mean, you can like stand above it all and be like, oh, yeah, we're all just the gods of Athens, just you know, having debates among about, you know, about about things of things of public notice.
But like, no, that's not what Charlie.
Charlie Kirk was demonizing like people of color, people women, trans people, leftists, you know, socialists, democrats.
I mean, he that was his political part.
That's what he did.
He wasn't trying to persuade, he wasn't, you know, like God, it's just, I mean, it's just he was actively working to take away the rights and freedoms and ultimately the lives of millions of millions of people, you know, vulnerable people, oppressed people.
Absolutely.
And and just half the population, ultimately.
This man was a male supremacist.
Um, he he wanted women barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen.
Yeah, well, we're gonna we're gonna play some clips to that effect shortly.
But yes, and yes, yeah.
He dedicated his life to that.
He made himself rich doing it, and he caused he he caused harm to this world that we will never be able to calculate.
And he, you know, I I don't I don't fucking care if he did it from a sense of personal conviction and belief or not.
I I do not care.
Like he did or he didn't, that's a distinction without a difference.
He was just toxic waste.
He was poison in this world.
That's all he was.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean, um, yeah, no, it's it's just you know, again, we're gonna we're gonna get into it, but Charlie Kirk was an awful, awful man who harmed.
I mean, I guess uh yeah, I have one more question.
We'll just kind of do him right now.
Um, how much did he actually advocate for violence and how responsible is he for the current political climate, which glorifies violence?
Um, he did not in the way that like um again, like the the you know, the um not in the way that like the boogaloo boys would advocate for violence.
Like it was never like that sort of thing.
It's never like go out and kill your local democrat.
Um, but he absolutely advocated for political violence up until the very I mean he was literally doing until he was shot.
He was doing it.
He was advocating for political violence.
He was advocating for cutting government programs that helped poor people, was advocating for um demonizing trans people who was advocating he was advocating for the uses of the state for for the most powerful state that has ever seen in human history to be used against his enemies, which were almost entirely kind of people who might listen to this podcast, you know, like entirely.
Um state violence.
He wanted he he advocated for it specifically and tacitly.
He wanted televised uh corporate sponsored executions that children were forced to watch.
For at least this is shit that he said to his mates in podcasts, you know.
How much how much again it's a distinction without a difference, how much of this is serious policy proposal and how much of it is this oh aren't we shocking performance that he does for his audience.
I don't care.
Uh these are things that he advocated for.
So he's advocating for it, you know, specifically, literally.
He's also advocating for it tacitly because he's advocating for things to happen in society that cannot happen without the state violently enforcing them.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Like he he yeah, no, I mean, and that's uh again another thing that I think we need to be clear about in this podcast is the difference between, you know, advocating for, you know, look, I would not advocate for Charlie Kirk to have been shot, but there's a difference between actually shooting shooting Car Charlie Kirk is violence.
I agree.
The things that Charlie Kirk did in his life were also violence, just of a different kind.
There was systematic violence.
He had an enormous platform for which he spewed hate and he spewed you know violence towards people he didn't like, and he did it for 13 years, 14 years, something like that, since 2008, 2009.
Um he was he was working on that political project.
And so um, you know, I'm not uh you know, I'm not I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna um Charlie Kirk.
Not not for a moment.
Not not not for the slightest little moment.
I have some sense for his kids, his kids are all very young.
Um and losing their father is probably not going to be a fun thing for them, but um that's all they know right now.
That's as far as that's as far as I'm going on that.
You know, that's it.
Yeah.
Okay.
Center quote open.
We uh heard Megan Kelly live on air.
Uh that's towards the beginning of her broadcast yesterday.
Uh between the time that Charlie Kirk had been shot and the time that the death was announced.
Um and Becky Kelly worked with Charlie Cook Rec Charlie Kirk regularly.
They were they were frequent collaborators.
Um Kirk went onto her show fairly regularly.
I don't know if she wanted to his very often because he usually was doing his public events, but they spoke at public events together regularly.
It was it was a thing.
They actually she had planned to be at one of his events during this American Comeback Tour thing.
So these people worked closely together.
Um they deserved each other.
They deserve each other.
It's like you know, and the the idea of like Charlie Kirk didn't doesn't doesn't deserve this.
I mean, you know, like you know, you can argue nobody deserves you know, a bullet through the neck or whatever, but uh you know, the the the people were mean to Charlie Kirk online because all he was doing was advocating for what he believed in.
Now we're gonna go through well, first we're gonna talk about like I've titled this like The Legacy of Charlie Kirk or something in something like that.
That's kind of my working title here.
Um and I think firstly we're gonna play a couple of clips from that episode uh from different people coming coming in.
Um Beck and Kelly wept on air.
You look you see you listen to her, she was weeping on air openly.
Um during that, she was sniffling the whole time.
Um Glenn Beck also wept on air.
Do you sorry?
Can I can I ask you you actually saw that?
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, I uh I mean it's it's on YouTube.
I played the audio, but I I watched the YouTube version a couple of times.
Because I haven't I haven't watched the actual clip.
Are they do you think I mean is that is that real?
Do you think they're real?
I think it's real.
Okay.
Um they worked close.
I mean, I I mean, you know, they're monsters, but they're but they're people, they have feelings.
I mean, you know, uh you know, I can't imagine uh some of them do.
Some of them, I mean, you know, I I don't think Megan Kelly gives a shit about Palestinians, but I think she gives a shit about like collaborator, not close political operative.
Yeah, I think she cares about that person, you know.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Um, she would weep for that.
I think there are times when she comes across as pretty fake on the show, but I think that I think that's probably real.
Um, if it's it may be a little bit like played up, but it's also, you know, I think it's a legitimate thing.
I mean, I think she said that he's a dead, you know.
I think that's true.
And I think you know, it's it doesn't seem unlikely to me that those were real tears, but you know, who knows?
Well, she was probably making money from him, so yeah.
Well, there's that too.
Um, Glenn Beck also openly wept uh when during his segment.
Well, he does that all the time.
Yeah, that's a more regular thing.
He would that man, that man is a lacrimous motherfuckers.
Um but uh no, um we don't have any clips from from uh from that.
We we I mostly stuck to like the first like 45 minutes of this, so we can um so we're gonna listen to two clips.
One is Megan Kelly talking to Rich Lowry, which Lowry is a kind of a more mainstream conservative figure.
Um he is the editor in chief of the National Review.
Um if that kind of gives you a sense of.
I think he's the one that uh started to say the N-word live on her show before that time.
I believe that's true.
Yeah, and then the uh second one is Mark Halperan, who um notably me too'd used to work at MSNBC and now has a his own show on the Megan Kelly's growing media network.
Becky Kelly has a media network.
We're gonna get into that when we do the Megan Kelly episode.
Anyway, um, so let's this is gonna be Rich Lowry kind of talking about um kind of the impact of the world on what what has happened to Charlie Kirk and this again is before anybody knew he was dead.
So um just what to start this.
Okay.
This is gonna make me sick, isn't it?
Yes, it will.
We can stop it whenever you want, my friend.
Don't worry.
Right.
We need more of that, right?
That's good for our society.
That's what the bedrock of our republic, that's what it's built on.
So he's talking about like debate, and like the old Charlie Kirk ever did was just debate with people.
We need more debate, we need more debate.
Argument, persuasion, clash of ideas, and a rifle should have nothing to do with it.
Obviously, nothing to do with it.
And you asked, you know, is this 1968 again?
This might be an event horizon where where we we've passed uh we've we've gone from the the the uh poisonous rhetoric into acts against people who are just just advocates, right?
Who are just out there uh expressing their point of view, and that's a really disturbing thing to think about.
There's a uh notably here, I mean there's something I'm just gonna jump in here.
I did I did see uh I did see a blue sky post that was, you know, something to the effect I don't have it in front of me, so I'm not gonna quote it directly, but um it's impossible to both uh to both um you know talk about Charlie Kirk's high ideals and his uh excellent debate tactics and how you know much of a man of ideas he was as he as Rich Lowry just was, and then actually actually quote things that Charlie Kirk actually said.
Those are two things it is impossible to do simultaneously.
Um because as we will see, Charlie Kirk was not a master of ideas, he was a master of bigotry.
Mark Alperin, the amount of security that Ben Shapiro has to travel with now, that Matt Walsh has to travel with now, that I know Charlie has had to travel with.
I travel with security too.
This is not normal.
This is this is not normal.
This is we're all news personalities.
I mean, first of all, like Brad Pitt also travels with security.
I mean, you know, you're famous people, you travel with security.
Um God, the level of sanctimonious self-pitying cry baby bullshit these people come up.
It's worth pointing out that we have we have actual numbers on this.
Political violence from the right dwarfs political violence from the left by orders of magnitude.
Absolutely.
The thing that's not normal, the terrible societal scandal of political violence, the persecution, the terror, the people not being people being afraid to speak, etc.
etc.
That's all on the other side.
And it's because of you fucking people.
You are the ones doing it with your endless avalanche of lies and bullshit and provocations and smears.
How fucking dare you sit there and do that?
This is not normal, Mark.
It shouldn't have to be like this.
I couldn't have said it better myself, could not have said it better myself.
This is very common.
And also, like the figures like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Charlie Kirk, people who are known to be these like you know, lightning rods of controversy.
Like these people, you mean they have to travel with, you know, they have to travel with security because they advocate for destruction of people's lives because they advocate for genocide.
They advocate for genocide, yes, yes, absolutely.
Um these people, these people like, oh, they have to travel with they need a security guard.
Oh my goodness, like I don't fucking care.
Like, yes, like you know, I am not advocating that anyone go out and harm these people.
That's arguably going to make it worse for everybody, but um, like the idea that you just get to like be a bigot, be a very public, be a very open bigot, be a very open, you know, advocate for genocide in in Israel in Gaza, being an open, you know, and trans person.
And and and against she named she named Matt Walsh there.
Yeah, Matt Walsh.
Matt Walsh is an endless tear of transphobia.
What's the other guy's name?
That other filthy bastard that works at uh or used to work at Daily Caller, can't remember his name, little weasel-looking, uh porn-looking guy.
He said he wanted transgenderism eradicated from public life, and then people said he called for a genocide because that is literally what you know that is not interpretable in any other way.
Exactly.
I didn't say that.
Yes, you fucking did.
You did, you did, absolutely.
I don't know.
I don't know which fuckhead you're referring to, but I I trust you on that.
Yes.
I can't remember his name.
They're all the same.
There, yeah, that's it's very similar.
Yes.
Okay.
You gotta get back into this, all right.
Yeah.
That's what we do.
We comment on the news.
This the the level of threats that now public figures are having to put up with in order to just talk about the news is irregular.
It's it's wrong.
There's just something just talk about the news.
Just talk about it.
I'm just talking about the news.
I'm just I'm just discussing just very, very nicely, just talking about the the events of the day.
We're just talking about the news.
No, you're advocating for genocide.
No, I'm sorry, you are.
And Megan Kelly, very much, you know, certainly uh don't worry, we're gonna do Megan Kelly later.
It's fine.
But like she absolutely is you know, is of a piece with these guys.
I think Matt Walsh is probably worse on trans issues.
Anyway, Megan Kelly is fascinating.
When we talk about her, I I've been reading her book, and the things she said in 2017 do not match up with the thing she says in 2025.
Let's just put it that way.
Deeply un-American about this.
Sorry.
So the guy I was talking about before, the guy whose name I couldn't remember, Michael Knowles.
Oh, oh, Michael Knowles, yeah.
No, he uh yeah, no, he's uh yeah, that's a little shit weasel.
Yes, absolutely.
We said at a speech he wanted transgenderism eradicated from public life, which is effectively a cult because it's very carefully like Elon's salute.
It's calibrated to be yeah, quote unquote plausibly deniable.
Yeah, but exactly what he's saying, clearly.
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Michael Knowles has appeared on um, I know he's appeared on Megan Kelly's show.
I think he appeared with Charlie Kirk.
I've only I've only really been listening to Charlie Kirk regularly for for a few months now, so um, I don't have a full like background history for Charlie Kirk, but and yeah.
I don't I don't know if we can take the loss of Charlie Kirk.
I don't well, I hope you come.
I don't know if yeah, retire, Megan.
That sounds like a good plan.
Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Kirk is gone.
Well, I guess I guess y'all just better like pack up a shop now.
There's no reason to continue your political project.
Um, yeah, that would be lovely.
If we can take the loss of him, I really don't.
I just think it's going pretty now.
Here, you can hear under voice.
I think this is definitely, you know, uh this this is this is acting.
Um, I think she does feel bad about it, but I think there is obviously some performance here.
God, it's not happening.
Pray God he survives this.
But this is this is an abject disaster.
I mean, this this is going to have a far-reaching, deeply resonating effect on the political right.
Even as we know it as of this moment, what's happened here.
So, what she's saying is, you know, this is going to like the fact that he has been shot is going to like make the right like pull ranks and and work together and you know, really uh push against the left, really push against these these communist democrats, effectively.
That's that's kind of her point.
And so, and that's I think you know, kind of what we're going to end up seeing.
Um, horrifyingly enough.
Yeah, that's that's all I have from Rich Lowry.
The other is gonna be from Mark Halperin.
And this is going to be, you know, uh you mentioned him.
Okay, this is going to be that conversation.
So uh, you know, if anything, I thought we'd get that.
Even worse, even worse, right?
You know, it always gets worse on this show.
Someone has tried to take away, let's put it that way.
Someone has tried to take away someone who was really fighting every day to change America for his kids to have a better future as he saw America.
For his kids to have sure his kids.
His kids like his 10-year-old daughter, who he said if she was raped and impregnated, he'd force her to carry the baby to turb and deliver it.
Like his kids.
Yeah, like one of them.
That kid.
That kid.
Make their life better.
Yeah, exactly.
But not all the other kids.
Not the kids in Gaza, not the trans kids, not the gay kids, not the black, not the not the children of immigrants.
No, none of that, none of those kids, just his kids, you know.
And advocated, he's gonna say something like, you know, advocating as he saw it, because even Mark Alper and Alperin does not agree with everything that Charlie Kirk has to say, presumably.
That's chilling to me.
You know, that's showing me that's I think the Yes.
Yeah, that's chilling to you.
Not the starving children in Gaza, those are not.
Left will chronicle his more hyperbolic and inflammatory statements.
Are we?
Is that what we're going to do?
I actually think we're gonna be pretty fair to Charlie Kirk.
I didn't I nearly pull all the clips I could have.
You know, I didn't pull the rest of the words.
How unfair of him of us to, you know, judge him merely by the things that he said in public.
Yes, the things the the hundreds or thousands, like really thousands of hours he spent speaking in public, and to judge him for those words and to judge him for the output of those words.
I agree.
Like if you took out of context, you took a little bit and you took like the worst thing he ever said and said this he was exactly this bad all the time.
That would be unfair.
That's not what anybody's doing.
People are like to everything that I've seen is people pulling like very presentations of things he actually believed.
There is there is no like stretching the truth on this.
Like there's no like you know, no one is saying he denied the Holocaust, for instance, because he didn't deny the Holy, as far as I know, he did not deny the Holocaust.
Um find me clips of him doing so, and I will absolutely um damn him even further than I'm damning him now.
No one is saying that.
They're saying things he actually did say and believe.
It's very, very normal.
Um I think uh uh I I think that that uh you know is it is it comparable to the uh if he does die to the death of Martin Luther King, the assassination of Martin Luther King.
I think there's parallels there because I think there are parallels too.
Charlie was a visionary for his vision of America and and screw people who said he was in it for money or in it for fame or in it uh to own the libs.
He was in it because he believed passionately about how to change this country to make life better for his kids.
Again, for his kids.
And uh I didn't really have time to go and pull audio for all the things that like um that Kirk has said about MLK over the years.
If this country goes down the road it's going down a few years, I think it is entirely possible that statues of Martin Luther King will be replaced with those of Charlie Kirk.
I think that is a very real tangible possibility.
I do not want to put that in anybody's head, um, who might be in a position to do so.
But I think there is a very real possibility that you know, down the line, you know, um another few, I don't they might try to do it tomorrow.
Who knows?
But I think you know, I think I think down the line it is very possible that that they consider Charlie Kirk to be a martyr to the cause of of incipient American fascism and that they do king place statues.
Who grew up in Jim Crow, who grew up effectively in American apartheid, yes, who had to who had to fight that savage system uh to lead a movement, a a civil a genuine civil rights movement.
Yes, uh who you know the who was beaten, who was beaten with clubs by people and staffed yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But Charlie Test March.
But Charlie Kirk got his fee fees hurt because the Celesbia didn't like what he had to say.
She talked over him that one time.
Oh boo, boo-hoo, Charlie Kirk, who dried his eyes with the millions that he made at spreading hate and bullshit.
You know, exactly, you know, just like him okay.
Yes, there's a parallel there.
Maggie Kelly, she won't say it out loud.
There's a parallel.
There's a parallel.
My god, Megan.
What fuck is it so contemptible the way white conservatives are desperate to try to cast themselves as the oppressed.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It is beneath beneath contempt the way they do that.
You know, and and Charlie Kirk himself explicitly slandered Dr. King.
Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Called his reputation a myth and a legend shaken.
maybe maybe I'll pull maybe while you're editing this, I'll pull up a clip and we can throw something in there.
But I just didn't have I was doing other stuff and I just didn't have time to to go into that.
Um but yeah, no, you know, again, not the absolute worst races with MLK that I've seen.
I mean, but I've seen I've seen the absolute worst imaginable, you know.
Um, but he was awful on that issue, of course.
He was absolutely disgusting on that issue.
Um, so um, and I think I mean again, I think it's a very real possibility, you know, especially you know, um gets a third term, gets a fourth term.
Very possible, very possible.
Or Trump dies, Trump dies, and they and they put up statue of um Trump with Charlie Kirk.
Because Charlie Kirk worked closely with with Donald Trump.
They were like he basically ran the ran the get out the vote efforts for the 2024 election.
Like he works intimately with with members of the of the Trump administration.
Like he was actively he's in like group chats with John Jr. and J D Vance.
Like that's how closely he was working with these guys, you know.
He organized funding for buses to take people to January 6th.
Yes, he did absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um Charlie Kirk is actively involved in organizing a fascist putsch attempt to overthrow American democracy.
I mean, there is there is a absolutely he did.
He absolutely did.
And there really is this thing of like Charlie Kirk got as far as he did in life by like sticking his lips right on Donald Trump's asshole and asking how hard do I need to pucker, sir?
Like that's exactly um what he did.
That's that's you know, Jack Basobiac to it to a lesser degree, but Charlie Kirk was like the def defining example of that of just whatever Donald Trump says is what I believe.
That's you know, just you know, a hatchet man for Donald Trump, you know, except we go to the different weasel kind, you know, not like the like the the Haldeman kind, you know what I mean?
You know, like you know release the Epstein ph phone rings.
I don't know.
Oh, I mean turns back to camera.
Don't release the Epstein file.
Exactly, exactly.
Um paid to believe things.
There is no greater insult.
Yeah.
Did we play a clip of him during that episode?
We might have played.
We might have been four episodes that we've played episodes that we played him on.
Anyway, all right.
So we're done with Megan Kelly.
We don't have to listen to any more Megan Kelly today.
I mean, I do, but you for now, uh you know, I'll listen to more as soon as we're done recording, I'm gonna go right back to listen to Megan Kelly, probably, but you don't have to do it for now.
Instead, um, so what I did, I I was I was about six days behind on Charlie Kirk's output yesterday when when he died.
And I said, Okay, I'm gonna sit and I'm going to listen to all those you know, six days worth of episodes, roughly like four hours, like three and a half, four hours worth of content.
And so um today I guess I'm gonna find little bits and we're just gonna clip from the last week of shows.
And I was planning to do that completely until I got to the last show and realized clip from this one.
So this is none of this like this was the very last episode Charlie Kirk will ever produce.
This is the very this is the and we're going to actually play the very end of that episode.
So you get to hear exactly the way this is about the legacy of Charlie Kirk, the way he left it.
The way the the thing that he's project, one of the many projects he one of the things that he did was this podcast, and this is going to show you the very last thing he did for that project.
I'm going to play for you here in about 15 minutes.
So this proves what you were just saying, which is that you know, you can just you can just dip in anywhere, basically.
Yeah, you don't you know Meg and Kelly's kind of the same way.
I feel kind of feel disgusting that I've like spent so much time on her when you really don't have to.
Um, but I think it's worth my my project is to do the deepest dives possible on these things.
And so there's there's just nobody can say I haven't done the hallmark on this.
Okay.
So this is from Charlie Kirk's last episode.
He is interviewing because he has like little segments in these in these shows, and they're like stitched together with ads.
I thought about playing some of the ads, they're hilarious, but that we don't need to do we don't need to.
If we do more Charlie Kirk material, I'll play some of the ads.
I'm about to do that for Meggie Kelly too.
Actually, there's probably an episode in just right wing ads.
That would be funny.
Um that would be that would that would be an easy one.
That would be a that would be a funny one.
Um so this is Charlie Kirk.
He is interviewing um Trisha McLaughlin.
Trisha McLaughlin, I have her um, she actually works for DHS.
I have her DHS.gov page linked in the show notes.
Um, and she is assistant secretary for public affairs, so essentially she's kind of like a PR person for DA for DHS.
She does interviews for these kinds of things and so this in this moment what they're talking about is the um whether Trump is going to be able to put federal troops in Chicago and perform and do these kind of you know police state actions that he was able to do in Washington DC.
Um that's a story we probably could have covered I think it's been covered pretty well already um DC has special status because it is not a part of a state that has like a home rule and so the federal government does have the ability to actually police in um DC which it does not have in any other city or other place in the country um because those are supposed to be handled at the state level this is like a very clear legal distinction that goes back you know to the time of the American founding it is we can argue it's nonsense um but that's it's it's the law it's a thing.
Um, Charlie Kirk, if Barack Obama or Joe Biden were still president would absolutely not think that federal troops can, should be able to, um, enforce federal laws in our state laws in, uh, no division of states, but because it's Donald Trump is in charge.
He's all for it.
And, um, he brings on, I've just been listening to the, the knowledge fight episodes about Alex Jones reacting to exactly this.
And it's, as they, as they point out, Alex Jones, his entire career has been based upon this fear mongering about the, America's becoming a police state.
The federal government is going to take over it's an end of states right so gonna send troops in etc etc his entire career up to this point.
And of course now Trump is actually doing it.
Trump is actually he federalized Washington DC sent yes National Guard into cities to try to take over Trump is actually because of course the right everything they talk about is what they you know the left are doing this the someone the globalists are doing that.
It's what they secretly fantasize about doing Trump is actually doing it.
Alex Jones is defending it.
And it's all in terms of it's all in terms of crime which of course when Alex Jones talks it just means black people existing.
Yeah no there's a one thing I did not do that I I probably should have done is like there's a ton like I clipped there's maybe three or four minutes of this episode that I'm gonna play for you.
I had to clip around there's a lot of like just absolutely savaging like black on black crime.
There's a little bit of that we're gonna get to a little bit of that but that's kind of the last thing that we're gonna play is some of that.
But like he names people and it's like this person this this filth this criminal and he goes he goes into this like totally you know um you know as we say he died doing that.
Yeah he died to doing that um but he was doing it and I the real reason I didn't want to do it is I didn't want to have to like look up all the cases and then like describe them and kind of explain why he's bullshitting or why maybe he's not bullshitting.
It really doesn't matter it's all just sludge of hate for Charlie Kirk.
Or it was all sludge for hate.
It was all you know just just ranting in order to create political violence against brown and black people against people of color and trans people in this country and around the world arguably but certainly in this country.
So anyway I just clipped like a minute or so out of this and just kind of gives you a sense of like again how closely connected Kirk is to the Trump administration that he's got I mean he's got like these people on I mean this is a PR person with this but he has like high level people like Trump cabinet people come on to Charlie Kirk's show for a 15 minute segment and they do it constantly this is a regular thing um like almost on a moment's notice he is very deeply ingratiated in the Trump White House or was very deeply ingratiated in the Trump White House.
Regime mouthpiece that's what we're talking about.
Exactly I mean arguably all of these people are just raising mouthpieces at this point.
That's something that the more you get into like the the normy side of this like the Jack Pasobiaks the the Matt Walsh's the the Megan Kellys um they just recite like with very few exceptions with very few like minor tweaks they basically always just tout administration talking points at this point.
That's all they are and then sometimes except when they think he doesn't go far enough that would be the other side of it.
Right.
So I guess could you guys do something as simple as just waiting outside of the jail that as soon as they get released then you can intercept them because then they're no longer in the jurisdiction of the city I mean this is so outrageous.
Why are we putting up with this so this is like deporting people who have been arrested um for other crimes and like basically the the local governments do not want like the government that the city of Chicago does not want ICE agents kind of coming in and like taking people from their criminal justice system because they're still a part of their criminal justice system.
And um and so this is a fight because basically ICE is like well we know where these people are they've already committed a crime let's just pump them out and deport him and it's like no there are rules around this we're not allowed to do that the these people have human rights human rights human rights what exactly um so that's that's that's the discussion that these two people are having um neo-confederism it's time for us to start neoconfederalism for like Chicago to want to or like the state of Illinois to want to enforce the laws in the state of Illinois.
It's neoconfederism This is just like slavery.
We can't we can't crush brown people fast enough.
Arresting these mayors and these city council members.
Are we really in a place where Chicago and be like, oh, sorry, feds, you're not allowed to deport here.
He's literally calling for arresting elected officials in the city of Chicago who are going to stand in the way of Donald Trump putting federal troops on the ground in Chicago.
That that's in exactly that many words.
That's what he just advocated for.
That's that's the thing he just advocated for.
Right there.
That's it.
That's that's the thing.
And this is not a one-off example.
He does this.
He did this.
I keep using president.
He did this all the fucking time.
This is this is I did not have to clip for the this is he I just this is basically I just found the clip and I'm like, we're just gonna use it.
Like this is very ordinary.
Child rapists, is that where we're at?
No, I think that's absolutely not a place where we're at, and we're working with the Department of Justice and uh really making sure we keep all of these options on the table.
I mean, we've introduced new functions, including being outside of courthouses so that those uh people who have had uh their day in court, uh we as soon as they are deemed.
She's the administration official, and she's talking about putting people not at the outset of the county jails, but at the outside of the courthouses.
There's a reason you do not arrest people for and threaten them with deportation when they have their day in court.
Reason is because you want people to actually show up for their day in court.
This is very normy good government stuff.
This is not radical left stuff.
You want people to show up for their day in court because otherwise they flee.
Otherwise, they commit more crimes.
There's no reason for anyone not to like commit terrible crimes in order to get away if they know that the they can't even go to their court date.
They're not gonna go to the court date.
You want to go to the you want them to pay their fines, you want them to pay their debt to society for whatever that means.
I understand the justice system.
We are not fans of the justice system in this in this podcast.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying in normal, you know, good government, boring, you know, so that's what you want to happen.
You want people to go through the justice system and for justice to be served.
You do not want people not to show up because there's like a masked guy with a giant rifle who's gonna like blow your head off if you don't come with him and ported back to El Salvador or down to Uganda or down to wherever the fuck they're sending these people.
Um it's just this is a government official.
This is a member of government.
This is someone federal government who either does not understand or does not care about this distinction.
This is I mean, it's mind-boggling.
It is mind-boggling to be.
Advocating a f an effective de facto end to the right to do legal process for the exactly, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, and and you know, it's not just for these people.
Once they can do it to that, they can do it to anybody.
Like, it's not like this is this that's once once you're not and a it would be bad enough if it was just these people.
Okay, let's let's say like Charlie Kirk is gone, the child rapists and the murderers and all this.
Okay, let's assume every single person that this has happened to is a truly vile human being that has actually committed all these horrible, horrible crimes.
Let's assume that for the sake of discussion.
They still have human rights, there's still a there's still a justice system, there's still something like the rule of law that and that's you know, the whole point of the rule of law is that we're not savages who just like kill people, have done something wrong.
We put them through a trial process.
There are rules for the way we do this.
Now, is that just absolutely not?
Absolutely not.
The way that we do it is absolutely not just.
I am not arguing for the de facto, you know, US criminal justice system.
I am saying that's the reason we have this criminal justice system to begin with.
And if we're not going to actually engage in that process, if we're just gonna say certain people, if we think they've done something wrong, they don't get they don't get a say anymore.
That is by definition not the rule of law.
That is by definition, and that's like we are all subject to it, you know, hypothetical.
The point is not whether or not these these people have done something wrong or not.
The point is that government is arrogating the prerogative to say the the decision about whether you've done something not or just de facto whether or not you get to have your rights taken away by the state.
It's no longer in it no longer exists in any public realm.
It no longer exists in any realm where law or precedent or public pressure or public view can touch it.
It is ours to decide.
We say exactly.
We say if you go to prison or not.
We say if you're a bad person or not.
That's what's wrong with it.
And then when uh, you know, Barack Obama comes in for his third term, because after Trump gets his third and fourth, then Obama's gonna come back.
And of course they're gonna like call that back.
No, no, no, we don't get to do that anymore.
No.
Um, of course.
No, it's tyranny when when you know Barack Obama tries to do it.
Barack Obama wears a tan suit, you know.
You know, we had a we had a mask band date.
We closed schools for f for two months, and uh, you know, that's that's tyranny.
That's tyranny, of course.
It's almost as if the entire basis of these people's politics is that the protections of law and rights and legality and all that sort of stuff belong and apply only to people like Charlie Kirk.
Yes, exactly.
It's that but they don't apply to people who are, for instance, migrants across the the southern border.
Exactly.
Because government says that they don't.
It's almost as if that's the whole point.
It's almost as if that's the whole point.
It's almost as if like uh they're advocating for a kind of dictatorship and it's in a type of fascism, almost.
Yeah, with a built-in uh government run racial hierarchy.
Yeah, yeah.
No, geez, can't it?
Anyway, let's let's not be sardonic on that level anymore.
Let's uh let's continue the clip.
To be in this country legally, we will take them, we'll arrest them and we will deport them.
But Charlie, remember, these arrests don't even need to be on the table.
Because what could be happening is those who are in this country legally could leave now.
They can get a thousand dollars and a free ticket home.
It's a very generous offer, the US taxpayer.
Uh and and then they avoid being arrested and deported.
But if they don't leave now, we will arrest them and we will deport them, and they'll never be able to come back to the United States of America.
You gotta love that carrot and stick approach, right?
You gotta love that, like, well, you know, we don't have to be deported.
We can just send you away.
We'll we'll give you, we'll give you a thousand bucks.
How generous of us.
A whole thousand dollars to uproot your life.
I don't you've lived here 30 years.
Maybe you never even knew, maybe you were a child when you left Mexico or Costa Rica or you know, Colombia.
Maybe, maybe those drug gangs, maybe they just don't it's just you know, a thousand dollars, you know, to uproot your life and move to a place you've never seen uh for for a whole lot of them, not for all of them, but for a whole lot of people.
That's that's exactly the tr the the the history.
Um yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, why not?
Yeah.
Well, we're so generous.
Look at us, you know.
This stuff just it's so like it's so normalized now, and it just disgusts me every single time.
This is political violence.
This is state violence against migrants, against legal agents, whatever.
This goes you know, Charlie Kirk's but Charlie Kirk specifically, you know, is is one thing, but in principle, this goes right the way back to stuff we were talking about at the very start of this podcast, which is the whole bullshit you would get from stuff like people like Richard Spencer about peaceful ethnic cleansing.
There's no such thing.
Yes, it's inherently violent.
It is inherently violent.
Well, people things are just getting unpleasant, and then people will just move.
Things I mean, it'll just you know, it's just people will be more comfortable.
It's like, yeah, you're talking about like vigilante violence, you're talking about I mean, you know, the methods by which this happens in reality, these are not peaceful.
This is not peaceful.
This is this is violence.
It's just oh, well, you know, my little white hands don't have to get dirty because I'm I'm the guy with the you know, with the with the teacup and sit surveying the field because like I see myself as a Victorian gentleman, I guess.
But that's always been the appeal of Trump and MAGA to his base that people like that Charlie spent their careers uh uh putting out there, which was the idea that the you know the guy, the savior, Trump is gonna come along and he's gonna do that for you.
He's gonna do the ethnic cleansing for you.
Yes, it's gonna be nice.
You won't have to you won't have to see any, you know, to the extent that anybody is sort of turning uh away who did support Trump and is now turning away, to the extent that that's happening.
It's happening because they're seeing sort of messy stuff on the streets that you know.
I don't I don't like the look of that.
That doesn't that doesn't make me look good.
The fact that I'm associated with that, that doesn't make me look good.
I didn't want to see that.
The whole idea was that these people that I don't like, they were just gonna disappear.
That was the plan.
That was what I wanted.
Yeah, no, they they just go away cleanly and nicely.
I don't have to look at the nasty things, you know.
It's just yeah, very much, you know, it's very much like you know, you show somebody the the inside of a butcher shop and suddenly they they don't want to eat meat quite as often as they used to.
This is this is the same, it's the same phenomenon.
Uh I'm not a veg I know you're a vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian.
I very much like to become one, but you get the metaphor I'm going for there.
You know, once you once you see that the sausage is made, Um it becomes uh something it's hard to look hard to look away from.
And um that's that's that's what people were seeing is like and like the people you know the people who didn't have to see it, the people who had read books, the people who knew exactly what this meant, the people who knew the history and who saw the direction this was going, leftists, you know.
Um, those people, you know, you you can listen to you can listen to those people back then, you know.
When when we were absolutely right about what was going to happen, it's like, oh well, you know, and nobody no nobody knew.
Nobody could have possibly known.
Yeah, some of us do.
Sorry, we knew.
We're very happy you're not you don't want to be a fascist anymore, but like let's sit sit in the corner for a while.
It's okay.
Let's listen to that.
Yes.
When the left are trying to tell you these things, or even just the liberal left to try to tell you these things, the entire media and ideological establishment lines up to tell you almost in unison that the there's some there's some reason why you shouldn't listen, or it's understandable that you don't listen.
Because the left are, you know, their tone is wrong, or their attitudes wrong, or they're saying it wrong, or they're they're too censorious or something.
And yet somehow these standards of behavior they're never applied to people like Charlie Kirk, who is he he's just you know, now that he's dead, he's just been completely repackaged by these people.
Millions of Americans are learning about this guy uh learning about this guy Charlie Kirk for the first time now.
And they're they're being given a completely fake image of him as kind of this reasonable political actor who was engaging in debate, but it it's complete it's a complete fiction.
As we said at the outset, this man was a fascist propagandist.
But the rules are different for people like him.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's get into some Nazi shit.
You want to get into some Nazi shit?
I mean, we're already kind of doing some Nazi shit.
Yes, yeah.
Are we not already in that?
Yeah, well, we're gonna so Jack Pasobia, get a Jack Pasobia, right?
It always gets that's the m the unofficial motto of this podcast, of course, is it always gets worse.
I mean, you do have to keep in mind that I do the uh the the schedule, I do the plotting of the of the clips and the and where we go, and so um there might be a reason that it always gets worse.
You know, I like to you know you start off in the in the in the in the in the kiddie pool and then it just gets deeper and deeper until you're finally you're you're you're drowning.
That's that's how that's how the structure of the podcast works.
Yeah, yeah.
Um yes, and piss and piss and shit and vomit.
Yes, and uh yes, God.
Let's not go any further with that metaphor.
Um anyway, so Jack Pasobia.
Um Jack Pasobiac, where's a so the Sobik and a couple of his buddies, including Charlie Kirk, used to do Pesobic will still do it, but used to do a podcast called Thought Crime.
I will have there's an episode on Thought Crime.
There's probably a Pesobic episode, there's episode Thought Crime.
It's like I first started listening to Charlie Kirk because I was listening to Thought Crime, and then I wanted to listen to the stuff he was saying when he wasn't on Thought Crime because Thought Crime is about as aggressive as Charlie Kirk ever got on like racial issues and all this stuff.
He starts to sound a lot more traditionally alt-right, you know.
Um thought crime, uh a term that comes from the the novel 1984, yes by George Orwell, who went to Spain to shoot fascists.
Yes, indeed.
Indeed, they they they're like, We're committing thought crimes because we're saying the things about race that are actually true that nobody else is allowed to say anymore.
It's like, oh my god, you guys.
Yes.
The legacy of Orwell, you know, Orwell's uh, you know, or was the names that word should be like ashes in their mouths, they should never be allowed to to say it aloud.
Um, but uh anyway.
Anyway, so yeah.
On this on this last episode, we said anyway in unison there.
That was great.
Sorry, go on.
It's uh it's it's uh you know, it's a verbal tick.
I I have it, and I think you're picking it up for me.
So on this last episode that Charlie Kirk will ever make of this stupid podcast that I never have to listen to again.
Um Sobiac started talking.
Uh he came on and they talked through some news stories.
It's a regular thing that they do.
Um and here there's a thing.
I don't know.
I had not heard of this until the I listened to this episode.
You probably haven't heard of it.
The the Phillies Karen incident.
Have you heard of this at all?
No, no, I have not.
So it's at a Phillies game.
I think it's in Miami.
It's anyway, the details are stupid.
Anyway, um, it's a baseball game and a baseball game.
So I do not follow sports, I'm not so police, you know.
And I assume that like at least some of our audience is not American, so I'll briefly explain how this works.
You hit throws a ball, you hit it with a bat.
If it goes into the if it goes past it, it's a home run, right?
And sometimes it lands at the stands, and there's a kind of thing, like if the ball, if you're sitting in the stands, one of the things is a fan is like if you get to catch the ball, you get to keep the ball, it's like a souvenir.
It's like it's like a it's a cool thing you get to do.
Okay, at this game, apparently.
and this went like mega viral in places that I don't look so whatever um there's a woman um who gets called the philly's carin because she's she's wearing philly's garb I guess um so a man with a young son sees the ball he skitters over to grab it he grabs it and then brings it over to his son and then this lady this woman the philly's carin um because the ball was hit closer to her she goes over they have like a kind of verbal fracas and then the man takes the ball and it gives it to it to
the woman.
And because she's got that traditional severe haircut, in her 40s I guess she's just hated all over the internet in this like little corner of the internet.
Anyway I've spent for too long discussing this this is very stupid but this is what they're talking about.
They spend like something we spent three I still feel like we spent too much time on this um this is anyway it's another incident it's a viral moment.
This is there's it's nothing there's no reason to be discussing this.
I'm discussing it because of what Charlie Kirk and Jack Posobiec are going to say.
Because they discussed it.
Because they discussed it because they're going to talk about the dynamics at play in this interaction.
Right.
So basically, ball is hit.
It's closer to the woman.
The man goes over.
He runs over.
He picks it up.
He gives it to his son.
The woman comes over.
There's a fight.
He takes the ball.
The man takes the ball from his son and gives it to the woman.
She walks away.
And I think she flips off some of the people filming it and stuff.
So, I mean, you know, anyway, it's a very light baseball fan kind of interaction.
this is so like you know this is so like this is like sports mediator hurts.
But um anyway um okay so we're just this is this is just this is a little so you don't need to know exactly what they're saying here.
I but let's talk about the way they describe this man.
And that's something that I've been trying to correct the record on because of the misinformation that's going out there.
The woman didn't take the ball at all.
It's the father who takes the ball from his own son's glove and hands it over to the woman.
And Charlie, my contention has been that's the decline of the West.
Well, I will say that, yes, this this father obviously has emotional.
Oh, God, I told you it gets worse.
Your thoughts, Jack.
That's the decline of the West.
The decline of the West is that a man and they went through this.
They got I could I could have made a whole episode about this exchange because they go on and on about, you know, the man he's he gives he takes this ball.
This is supposed to be this home spot American story of a man giving the baseball to his son, this heartwarming moment between the man and son.
And instead, he takes it, he robs this childhood memory, this treasure childhood memory from this son, from his begotten son and gives it to this terrible, awful, shrill woman because he wants.
strong enough he wasn't man enough to to tell her to go fuck herself like is the implication that's literally what they say but yeah.
I don't have much respect for the intellectual legacy of Oswald Spangler but I don't think that's what that book was about.
I don't think it was about an argument over who gets a a baseball my god when we do the Jack Pasobiac episode I'm gonna get to tell you about Pizza Hut nationalism pizza nationalism pizza in any of these discussions isn't is is not a good sign.
i'll give you the i'll give you the pizza hut um used to have uh back in the 80s when he and i were children he's a little bit younger than me you know had very distinctive restaurant like the like the architecture of the restaurants was very distinct and then um as they went to like more standard like modern styles and then um and they changed like the like there was a way that like the cops he had this long twitter thread one day about like you know um you know back in my day like nostalgia like fascist nostalgia for like pizza hut and like this is a world before there were always immigrants for these
people of color who were coming in and ruined these these true pieces of American culture like that's what pizza nationalism is it is back when my emotional age and my physical age were in accord with each other.
Yes I can't I can't wait for like in 20 years they're talking about like the Kim Possible nationalism like you know back in the days you know back when Avatar the last year bender was the was the best thing on TV.
Oh my god I actually like Avatar last name you know you know what I'm saying okay I haven't seen it all I like I like bits of it a lot uh I would have seen I liked a lot it's fine I'm not an anime fan it's uh it's fine you you're getting off track now yeah yes I am but uh you might want to cut all that it's fine if I was like if I'm gonna mention that I gotta I gotta explain it a little bit all right so we're gonna get back to the we're gonna get back to this I'm trying to avoid playing the rest of this clip it really is this an aid stability problems you could tell that he's got something off about him No one acts like this,
so I think uh you could tell there's there's something wrong with him.
Um and it's not even a matter of de-escalation, just the way he did his hands.
Uh he's got a- Charlie, I did do a little research and I found out that this father turns out he's from New Jersey, so well, sure, that explains half of it, but not the whole picture.
But uh there's the little shimmy shake.
There's he's got maybe a little Aspergery type thing.
And I'm not crit I'm not accusing him.
You just kind of tell there there's something that's not quite right there.
This is just not a normal reaction.
No, it's not a normal reaction.
So maybe he was completely overwhelmed and intimidated by the situation.
You can just tell from looking at him.
You can just tell by the way he's he does a little shimmy shake.
He does a like I watched this video, I don't know, I didn't pay any attention to it.
He seemed like a perfectly normal person to me.
Then again, maybe that's because I'm you know the six-letter F-word, and I'm you know, and I'm a socialist, and uh, you know, I'm a cuck.
I'm not a real alpha male like like Charlie Kirk and Jack Basobiacar, and so like I just think that looks normal.
But um, yeah, it's like the you don't have the you don't have the penetration to be able to see, you know, that the guy is is uh there's something wrong with him.
He's asperges also, yeah.
And this is the thing.
They really they really are like asshole teenage boys at the back of the bus, these people.
They really are.
Oh, a clip I didn't get to include because it wasn't from this episode.
They did a rerun of one of the old uh thought crimes, and they're literally talking about you know, you watch the Lord of the Rings movies, they seem kind of gay now.
And they're like talking about which media properties seem gay in 2025.
And like they're really using like they sound like 13 year olds.
They spend like an hour on this.
It was I mean, it was remarkable.
It was remarkable.
Anyway, the reason I've picked that clip is because like we had to see it the way and there's something wrong with him.
This is like eugenics talk.
That's what this is.
You know, it is like there's like it's like phrenology, there's something wrong with his face, there's something wrong with the way he is his hands, there's something, you know, and you can tell he's not a real man because it's very, very like it's very like coded through this like eugenics lens.
And it's just it's just like they're not being explicit about it.
It's just in their day-to-day conversation, like every like the thing, like the way that they think about the world, eugenics is built into it.
This like genetic determinism is built into every interaction that they see in the world.
It's just part of their part of the framework of the way that they'll see.
Yeah.
It's the air they breathe.
Yeah.
Along with uh that sort of prizing of toxic ideas of masculinity and sort of inherent homophobia and all this, you know.
As if these as if these doughy pillow soft fucking white boys that have never known a day's hardship or done actual physical labor or anything like that in their fucking lives, you know, as if they have anything to talk about here.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, no.
Yeah, we're the alpha men, you know, and the the that guy, you know, we we can tell he was there's just something something aspergery about him because he didn't, you know, he gave the ball back to the woman.
I mean, it's just it's such bullshit.
He de-escalated a conflict in public, you know, in front of his son.
Yes, yes.
What could be more weak and you know, gay than that?
And what would be I mean, honestly, like I mean, look, I'm not gonna read too much into this.
We're not doing like, but like you could argue this is actually like you know, de-escalating, even if he was in the right to have the ball.
You could argue I don't, you know, this is not this is not a debate.
I'm having to choose it the right.
The showing your child that the uh the skills of de-escalation is also a valuable parenting skill.
It's also a valuable thing to teach your child.
I mean, this could be a good parenting moment.
I don't know.
I don't know the history, I don't know those background.
I don't I don't know these people, but that's certainly a interpretation you could have at this moment.
He was teaching his child how to like I know we all we that was our ball, but you know, there's trouble with you know, etc.
etc.
That is a perfectly legitimate attitude to have towards this.
I don't know, it's just this whole thing.
Well, this is like that this is I suppose TV footage.
Yeah, yeah.
From like the baseball game.
It's I think it's partly TV footage and partly um like like um there's a a bunch of people like filmed the incident as it was happening.
Um because can you can you hear can you hear what's being said?
Can you hear me I didn't look into it.
I watched a couple of the videos, I couldn't really hear anything though.
I mean, it's just it's just yeah, you don't know you don't know what's happening.
No, shut the fuck up.
Indeed, indeed.
All right, we have a little bit more to say about this incident.
Um, and this is just a clip.
It's from like um two minutes later or a few minutes later, where they're still on this topic.
And we've talked about eugenics, we've talked about racism, we've talked about genocide support.
Um now talk about sexism.
Does she not hold all the cards of power?
Because in that situation, women in nothing will obviously go to physical blows, nor should it, but in that situation, she's actually in the power position there.
A screaming woman at a baseball game has more power than the man does.
Well, in our current inverted society, certainly, because we have this inverted victimhood hierarchy.
So a white man.
Hey.
You know, this is supposed to be a patriarchy.
No, it's a matriarchy.
You know, this is very like, you know.
Also, there's some like audio thing that's going on in Pesoviax.
That's not my mistake.
That's Zobic sentence.
So it just lets you know if that that little buzz sound it annoys me too.
But if it's annoying you, it's it put it on Jack Pasobia.
The worst thing he's ever done is have that little.
Well, there's this this there's several sort of annoying buzzing sounds, but I think it's just these guys talking.
Yes, indeed, indeed.
Um, no, yeah, no, it's uh, you know, like we live in a gynocracy.
I mean, this is straight like Rouche V like anti-feminism shit.
You know, this is straight out of 2014.
Yeah, these days he can't just punch her in the face to shut her up.
So obviously the world's upside down and inside out.
Yeah, it's like yeah, it's like you know, you see, even uh Kirk even says, you know, the line that's something like uh, you know, um, you know, it's not gonna come to like physical blows, nor should it, obviously.
It's like, yeah, we kind of know where you think this should really go.
Like, you she should know her place because you can beat the shit out of her.
That's really what you want to say.
Yeah, it's very clear.
Yeah, um well, she should be, you know, he shouldn't have to.
She should know her place.
She shouldn't be too afraid of that to even try this in the first place.
Yep.
Yeah.
Again with the carrots and sticks, it's carrots and sticks all the way down.
Anne is, you know, doesn't have as much power as the HR director Karen.
And so of course, you know the HR director is gonna call you to the to the to the carpet because you tweeted something that might have that was not sufficiently gynocratic, and therefore you're gonna lose your job.
This is like the terror that these men live under.
Yes.
You're all alpha males, you're all big tough masculine alpha males.
You shouldn't care about any.
It's it's it's wonderful the way they constantly constantly reveal themselves, you know, because they they're just they're just sitting around bitching and moaning and whining about oh, you know, somebody somebody held me responsible for something I said, somebody criticized me.
Well, you're the big fucking alpha males.
Fuck you and move on.
What do you care?
You should just you should just shake it off, you know.
But apparently no.
Apparently, this is something you need to all sit around in a coven of whiny little guys whinging about for hours on end.
Exactly.
Oh my god, it's so this is something like there's nothing is more alpha than sitting and whining about a woman that you never that you will never meet for 20 minutes.
It's nothing, nothing's nothing says like I definitely had sex today than that, you know.
You know, whose ability to criticize you apparently cuts your dick off.
Yes, that's exactly exactly.
Oh sorry, did not mean to imply anything about asexuals or people who choose not to have sex, but you know, you know what the genotype is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm I'm working within their view.
Within the yeah, we have to we have to speak in terms of their thoughts, you know.
But uh you know, I don't know.
People do I get emails sometimes.
I try to I try to cut that off, but I don't think it's no, it's fair enough.
It's fair enough, yeah.
All right.
We're gonna continue.
I mean, God, this is it's so like they're just whiny little they're whiny little babies.
That's uh this is all this is yeah, this is whiny nothing.
All right.
This is now unfortunately though, because this is all on video, I didn't do anything wrong.
I didn't do anything wrong at all.
I don't the only thing that he did wrong in the entire uh video that I've seen is hand the ball over to her.
He didn't strike her, he didn't assault her.
In fact, she actually grabs him at one point.
You can see her grabbing his arm and kind of pulling him a little bit, which the only thing I think of in this moment is back and to the left.
Back and to the left.
Yes, they're analyzing this like this is a pruder film.
Yeah, there's a pruder footageing some film of some people in the crowd up.
Yes, exactly.
You can see there must have been a second ball.
You can see it in frame 343.
Over the pettiest bullshit imaginable.
Like, this is these are professional political.
This is a political podcast.
This is a show.
I mean, no man would be cowed by just one woman, but if there was a second Karen coming in from the coming in from the book depository.
She came from the outfield.
She was there the whole time.
You know, she made herself look like a man.
It was a trans, it's a trans Karen.
The worst guy.
Yeah.
Trans Karen in the outfield.
I won't I want that to be, I want that's an album title, or it's a movie.
I want that now.
Um, you know, of course, it's a baseball game.
Like, come on, or you know, you're really gonna you're really gonna call that you know physical assault.
But if you wanted to go to that level, she has no legal claim here whatsoever, and in fact, the law would be completely on his side.
It's a baseball, it's a baseball.
What are you talking about?
Legal claim.
They're just bullshitting, they're just bullshitting.
It's just it's nonsense.
This is why this is people listen to this.
So why do people listen to hours and hours and hours of this?
Absolute fucking drivel.
I don't understand.
Daniel, I don't understand.
Help.
People get, I mean, this is like culture war nonsense because this went mega viral, and so it's like this thing where they're like covering it as like a it's like a you know, a light-hearted news story in between all the like the crime coverages they're doing, and they cover this stuff.
Yeah, um, yeah, I mean it it's probably it's part of the whole like package ultimately.
Um but like it's uh it's just it's so like it's just so nonsense.
It's just so like and I have spent many hours of my life listening to this kind of inane bullshit, like all the time.
Um, usually if it gets into where we're gonna spend 30 minutes on this, I just delete the episode and move on.
Yeah, it really is all right.
I'm getting what I need to out of this.
I'm done.
I don't need this anymore.
Um, but they all do it because they're all filling hours a day of content.
Charlie Kirk was putting out like in roughly an hour a day, five days a week.
Years, and this is how you do it.
You just if we had to fill an hour a day, five days a week.
We would do this kind of nonsense too.
Thank God we're not professionals, and we don't have to.
I think even if we could do this and make this a full-time job, I think that would be um I think there would be more soul crushing than unemployment at that point.
I think that would be hell on earth.
Yes, I need time to read books.
I need time to do anything but this, anyway.
All right, yeah, literally anything else.
Literally anything.
I need time to pluck my eye my eyelids out, you know, with with tweezers.
Okay, let's continue.
The only thing that she has on her side is the woke system of social justice that we have erected, sort of around our entire society, the longhouse, as uh as our friend, uh mutual friend Jonathan Kieperman would call it.
We're not gonna get into the long house today, but we could.
We get it.
We get a longhouse episode.
But again, this is the world in which these people live.
This is the world.
This is this is the mindset.
This is this is who Charlie Kirk was and Jack Pasobia is.
Again, I am not selectively quoting this.
This is not this is from the last episode that he ever produced, and so it's such a random episode.
This is this is just the way they talk to each other regularly.
This is a completely ordinary discussion that these two men are having for them.
Yeah, again, there's no effectively just a random sample.
You you just went to the last episode, basically, which is effectively random because of what happened, you know.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Proves the point.
Again, it's not like and you know, this shows you all right.
We're gonna play the last clip now.
We gotta get it here.
We've been doing this for 90 minutes.
Gotta get to the end of this, yeah.
Gotta get to the end.
But and this is uh, I don't know, Jack probably can't see the title of this, but I titled this clip in my like little montage.
This is Charlie Kirk Last Show 13 do 50.
You remember the 13 to 50 meme, don't you?
That 13% of the population does 50% of the crime.
Oh, yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah, and guess what that 13% are?
They're the African American population is 13%, roughly.
Umth sometimes they modify it to six and a half percent, because it's like, oh, it's all black men, it's not it's not even the black women, you know.
It's all it's all black men.
So this is this is this is a racist thing again from the earliest days of the alt-right, from even before the alt-right, but it was definitely this was like very strict alt-right meme from the beginning of like the time that they were doing this stuff, and here it is.
Charlie Kirk is going to express it in 100% of all of its vintage 2014 glory.
This could have been said on the streets of Charlottesville, Unite the Right in August 12th, 2017.
That's how direct this is.
This is the very last segment of the very last show Charlie Kirk ever produced.
This is the last minute and 17 seconds, and we're just gonna play it.
You go through the numbers, they're pretty shocking.
You go through the numbers and you go into the detail, You kind of walk away and you say, boy, this the media's really not been telling me the truth here.
Of course not.
In Minnesota, blacks are 6.4% of the population, and yet blacks account for 62% of all the violent crime in Minnesota.
According to 2021 FBI data, one in 22 males, black males, will murder someone at some point in their lifetime.
And that's by the way, that's with most of black crime going unsolved.
It's probably even higher than that, because half of all black murders go unsolved.
Half.
The projected lifetime murder rate for a black male is 4,500 eight per 100,000.
By age 23, about half of all black males have been arrested.
Let me say that again.
By age of 23.
So I'm playing this, I'm playing it kind of straight.
I did not check into all this data.
I don't know if this is all accurate or not.
Again, it doesn't really matter.
The these statistics are always plucked out of context.
It's always nonsense.
I'm just gonna say that out loud.
But it's worth listening to.
This is how Charlie Kirk ended his life.
This is the thing he was talking about a day before his life ended.
This is his legacy.
This is his life work.
This is his life's work.
Half of all black males have been arrested, and not enough of them have been arrested.
385,000, nearly 400,000, three times as many dis uh blacks are uh also I love blacks.
That's a blacks.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's you know, you've got to you gotta be pretty deep in your racism before you start using it.
You know, not black people, not African American people, not people of color, not you know, blacks, just blacks.
I mean, there is another word that he's probably actually thinking of, but you know, that that's that's that's pretty deep.
That's pretty deep in your that's that's pretty that's that's pretty much considering people as termites, you know.
That's that's that's uh it's close.
Yeah.
Commit crimes against white despite being only 13% of the population.
We need the fearlessness to say criminals are evil, crime will not be tolerated, crime will be stamped out regardless of who commits it.
And until then, these stories will keep on happening.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us as always, freedom at Charlie Kirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
And that's it.
And so he's he ended his podcasting career lying, uh, promoting racist stereotypes in order to further the agenda, the explicitly the agenda of an incipiently totalitarian fascist regime that is in the process of using racist dog whistles in order to take over American cities from yeah.
That's that's what he did with his life.
Yep.
And deliberately was using it.
I didn't play the there was like a five-minute kind of pre-sur sort of that.
It was all pretty much the same.
Um, but just to put it in context, the thing is you're not allowed to say these things.
That's the that's the point.
That's it's courageous for me to say these things.
Yeah, they have to be brave enough to say it.
Yeah, you're not allowed to be tough on crime anymore.
You're not allowed to say that like we should put criminals in prison.
A, you made yourself a multimillionaire many times over saying exactly these things.
And B, sentence now.
This is I mean, you know, our side is winning.
What do you what largely through Charlie Kirk's efforts?
Like, I mean, you know, not entirely.
This is not like we can't we can't say he's uniquely responsible.
But Charlie Kirk is a big part of the reason that this is happening right now.
This was Charlie Kirk's political project.
This was his life.
This is what he spent his life doing.
What is the legacy of Charlie Kirk?
What should be the legacy of Charlie Kirk?
That last clip I played.
That is the legacy of Charlie Kirk.
That is what he went out of this life doing.
That was that was what he loved.
That was that that's who he is.
And all the airy, the artsy fartsy, Ezra Klein, like he was just a man who loved debate, all the things that Halprin, everybody else's is going to say about Charlie Kirk.
That's not Charlie Kirk.
That is Charlie Kirk.
What I just played for you, that is Charlie Kirk.
Period.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lying propagandist furthering a racist fascist agenda, uh, congratulating himself as he does it for being brave enough to say things that are the common currency of uh the the movement that dominates alternative media and that's explicitly politically controls the White House, the Senate, the House, and the Supreme Court.
And the Supreme Court, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're so fucking brave, Charlie.
And I know you got shot, but you didn't think that was gonna happen, did you?
Let's be honest.
No, he didn't.
All right.
How do we feel about this?
What how do we feel?
Well, I mean, I want to ask you before we go Okay, what do you think the what do you think the effect is going to be in terms of the rights?
I mean, we're already seeing the right's reaction.
We talked a little bit about this.
They're immediately jumping to, it was the left that did it, and the left.
I mean, and of course, they define the left as everything from, you know, everything from, I don't know, Jamie Raskin onwards.
Yeah, what's the project, the Never Trump Republicans, you know, like the...
Yeah, the bulwark.
Bill Kristol is the left, you know.
Bill Kristol and Tim Miller onwards, you know, is the left.
Yeah, it needs to be suppressed, you know.
I mean, and the language is already explicitly violent and repressive and, you know, almost exterminationist.
I mean, is that what we're looking at?
Are we looking at a massive and immediate escalation in legal or even physical repression against dissent?
I see this as kind of a possibly a horse vessel moment.
It's like he becomes a rallying cry.
It becomes a symbol.
I mean, even now, you know, something that Charlie Kirk used to say all the time, but it's very common parlance is of Donald Trump.
They tried to kill him twice because there were two, like, nebulous they.
And it's always like, well, that must have been some leftist, you know, who was paid by the Democrats or whatever.
Like, it's always vague, but it's always, like, defined as, like, there's this nebulous they who is, like, the enemies of the people who tried to kill our hero Donald Trump twice.
And now it's going to be, you know, regardless of who this person ends up being.
We don't know.
I have no idea who this person is.
There's no...
I'm not going to speculate.
There's...
I have no data on this.
There's no reason for me to know anything more than anybody else.
It almost doesn't matter.
I mean, it won't matter to them.
If it turns out to have been a fucking Groyper, they will continue talking about it as if it was a...
Well, if...
An anarchist trans person hired by the DNC.
Yeah.
Well, even if it is a Groyper, that just proves that, like, oh, well, that anti-Semitic side, that those are the real violent ones.
And we're...
We just need to enact state violence against, like, those people now.
But, of course, they're just going to blame it all because they're all anti-Semites, you know?
The people who advocate for the murder of Jews and the...
the people who advocate for the live lives of Palestinians that's just anti-Semitism now.
That's just all the same thing.
There's no, there's no, there's no, there's no division point between that anymore.
This is, this is the horseshoe theory, man.
They're just anti-Semites on the left and the right, you know, we're the rational center.
There's no shortage of Ezra Klein's and Jonathan Chait's and all these people who will, who will line up to say, well, yes, extremism really is all a kind of the same thing.
And yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is, Ezra Klein, I said, I like, I loved it.
Like he often has this nuance.
He often has this like perspective that I really, I really appreciate his takes on some things.
And then he does this bullshit.
It's like, it's just, I don't know.
It's gotta be the masthead, right?
It's gotta be this, the New York times brain.
You know, you're just, you know, he, he gave a fawning interview to Ross do that.
Remember Ross do that.
He has a podcast.
Now I listen to this podcast, the dumbest man on the planet.
Ross do that.
That's not true, but he's pretty dumb.
He's pretty dumb.
Yeah.
He's pretty dumb.
Maybe we'll do some comedy episodes and we'll do some of those figures.
I'll just do 30 minutes and we'll just, we'll just play some clips and just let's laugh just point and laugh at the uh uh at the at the powerful stupid person that that sounds like a that sounds like a way of like lightening up the mood a little bit but yeah no uh it's hard to know where this goes I think I think he becomes uh I think he becomes a lionized figure I think he's already think that's what you're already seeing.
Um, Oh, sure.
Do you agree that they remember him?
He may just be forgotten, but I think that the size, like his, I think for one thing, it's going to be used absolutely to justify sending federal troops into cities.
It's like, well, they killed Charlie Kirk.
Charlie.
He's like a rallying cry for that.
And if Charlie, if they could get to Charlie Kirk, they could get to anybody.
We need federal troops to like stamp down on crime, regardless of who the killer ends up being.
Um, yeah, it's, it happened in Utah though, didn't it?
Which is pretty, that's pretty red.
They must be, they must be really frustrated.
that it didn't happen somewhere like Detroit or Chicago or somewhere like that they must be wishing it had happened there.
Well um you know Ed Bermilla put out uh put out a post on blue sky um that Utah was the first state or among the first states to allow open carry laws on universities.
Yeah the killer onto that university with the rifle and they had no legal way of stopping him like beside the point but still like no they're they're gonna use it they're gonna use it for crackdowns everywhere.
If it can happen and if it can happen in Salt Lake City it's not in Salt Lake City but it's it's like half an hour out of Salt Lake City it's in the veteran area.
If it can happen in Salt Lake City imagine what they're doing in Chicago and New York and Los Angeles and San Diego.
Imagine what they're doing in the Paso.
Yeah exactly um Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just uh it'll absolutely be used.
And Trump is already doing it.
Trump is already saying, you know, it was like a leftist guest member or whatever who did this, you know.
And it's just it's just going to become true.
Through repetition it becomes true.
And they're just going to say regardless of who this ends up being.
And the Megan Kellings and the Jack Pasobiaks and firmly the Charlie Kirk's and whoever comes in to take Charlie Kirk's place.
This is actually this is actually something I did want to mention very briefly is like it's unclear what the line of secession is here because Charlie Kirk kind of built this thing on his own.
I don't know that he has like a lieutenant who can step in and like engage in this.
So this may very well actively hurt the Republican Party and their ability to get out the vote and everything and like this kind of material way because this process was so turn so no yeah I I think I think this will I actually think this will be a net negative for them.
Yeah I really do.
Yeah.
Um and yeah on a structural level but not like a rhetorical level I think is kind of where I land on that I think the rhetoric is just going to get you know it's going to ramp up to 11 but um I think I I don't I don't want to sound like I'm downplaying the inevitable harm that's going to be caused to people by the backlash because there is going to be a backlash and it is going to cause harm to people but I think what we've what we're going to see is essentially not much more than an acceleration of a process that was already underway.
Yeah no no I mean that's not that's not insignificant but yeah it was already coming they're just going to use this it's just going to be one more thing.
It's just going to be one more you know one more thing that they that they throw on the and um yeah wait for the Charlie Charlie Kirk sat statues when it happens I said it first maybe not first but you know you heard it here very I I got to it early I figured this is going to happen.
So, all right.
That's all I have.
That stupid fucking hairdo in bronze or whatever.
I really, I was like looking at old clips like this afternoon, like kind of getting a sense of who he, you know, cause like a lot of the retrospectives had, you know, like clips.
And he has had a number of different hairstyles over the years.
So I'm just wondering which one they choose to, they choose to include.
Do they make the head as small?
Do they make that the head is large or the face is small as it was in real life?
You know, that's a fascinating question, really.
You know, he's going to look like a bronze Adonis.
You know, like it's like, I'm, I'm pretty sure he sort of shaped that, that hair to be because, um, so I haven't watched it, but South Park did a sort of Charlie Kirk thing recently.
We were going to cover that.
They didn't cover that.
And then it's fine.
Go ahead.
They didn't name him, but they have, apparently they have Cartman with just the Charlie Kirk hair and the hair by itself tells you who the, who they're referring to.
So Charlie Kirk had managed to make himself a completely recognizable villain.
visual identity which is an incredibly important thing for somebody in in politics if you can do it it's a big thing and people do it consciously I mean Trump Trump looks but objectively Trump looks ridiculous.
Yes but he is incredibly visually distinctive and this is a thing politicians love they love this if they can do that and I think Charlie Kirk very definitely deliberately cultivated look yeah no it's I think that's there's always been this thing of sort of mocking the way he looks and stuff.
Yeah he kind of had the well he didn't have the last laugh obviously but he he has the last laugh on that one kind of for for a while anyway yeah no yeah yeah okay well not to wish ill of the dead but I'm not I'm not mourning today not mourning today.
I I gotta I gotta confess I I'm not sad.
No I'm not a sad standard today.
No a a truly terrible person is no longer walking this earth and um it's probably gonna mean some worse things for a lot of the best of us but at least we can take solace in that he's not going to be spreading his bullshit anymore and I don't have to listen to him anymore.
Man that freeze so much of my time ticked off the list.
One ticked off the list that is not that is not do not make a list that is not sound we do not do that.
