All Episodes
Previous Next
Oct. 13, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
43:20
The Brutal Reality of the Palestinian State Plan the Media Ignores | David Friedman
Participants
Main voices
d
dave rubin
09:29
d
david m friedman
38:34
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Look, Israel has not had a day of peace with its neighbors since 1948.
It's still in a state of war with Lebanon.
It's still in a state of war with Syria.
Not the case with Jordan or Egypt, but two northern countries.
It's still in a state of war, obviously, with Hamas.
It's in a state of conflict with the Palestinian Authority, Islamic Jihad.
How do they live? How do they become a first-world nation?
We've been there together in some of the great places in Israel.
I mean, it's a beautiful country. It's a first-world country, first-world economy, elite universities.
How do they do that? They don't want to go to war every day.
If they went to war every day, they couldn't do these things.
They need deterrence.
It's all about deterrence.
They need to be feared by their enemies.
And when the enemies see that Joe Biden gets up and says, Bibi's not doing enough to make peace, or the United Nations gets up and criticizes Israel, that's the antithesis of deterrence.
That gives these people hope that they can actually defeat Israel.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Somebody's gotta have the same view Joining me today is the former U.S. ambassador to Israel under President Trump and author of the new book,
One Jewish State, The Last Best Hope to Resolve the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
Ambassador David Friedman, welcome back to The Rubin Report.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Thanks, Dave. It's great to be back.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I said that with a slightly depressing tone only because I didn't expect to have you back the second time so quickly and now the third time so quickly and I suspect I'll have you back a fourth time very quickly.
We're taping this, I just want to note at the top, we're taping this towards the end of September.
We're obviously going to air this the week of October 7th.
There's a lot changing on the ground at the moment.
So why don't we do a little bit of sort of what's happening right this moment and again some of it may...
Well, certainly will change, probably.
But the real issue is something that you actually brought up to me last time we spoke in this studio, which is that the war in the North with Hezbollah is actually sort of the real war or the big war, as crazy as that might sound to people that aren't that familiar with the area.
So can you kind of maybe sum up a little bit of what's going on there?
Again, understanding that some of the pieces are going to change.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Sure. Well, for starters, Hezbollah is the largest and most lethal terrorist organization in the world.
It's the largest army, armed forces among non-state actors.
It's right on Israel's border, right up at the border.
There have been wars in the past that have created significant damage for Israel, more for Hezbollah.
October 7th, Israel was attacked by Hamas.
The next day, before Israel even responded, before anyone knew what Israel's response would be, Hezbollah started attacking.
And they've been attacking every day since.
8,000 missiles have been fired against northern Israel by Hezbollah.
Out of sympathy for Hamas.
I mean, just to show we're with you.
Now, they haven't thrown their best stuff at Israel.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
unidentified
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
I think it's fairly clear he's not functionally president right now.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Look, Israel needs American ammo.
They need American diplomatic support, some other military support.
So they want to keep America happy, and America's taken advantage by basically handcuffing Israel.
And so it has prolonged this conflict, both with Hamas and with Hezbollah, for much longer than it should have.
And things started to change, really, in the past week, past week and a half.
And given me and many, many other people just sort of I would say real joy because we know what Israel is capable of doing and we know that Israel can fight back.
So the first thing they did, you know, after that horrible murder of 12 children playing soccer, Israel was able to target the guy responsible for it, right?
Literally in his room, in his apartment, in Beirut, just took him out.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Can you talk for a moment about the community that they actually targeted there?
Because those were not Jews, which people don't realize is even a thing.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Right. So, you know, 20% of Israel is Arab.
And, you know, let's say...
18% of that is Muslim and Christian Arab, but a small portion are Druze.
And the Druze are really beloved within the state of Israel because they're incredibly patriotic.
They serve in the army. They've achieved sort of the highest echelons of government service.
And so everyone in Israel loves the Druze.
And so these Druze kids were playing in northern Israel, playing soccer, and a rocket, a missile, came in and killed 12 of them.
And it was heartbreaking.
I mean, the whole country went into mourning.
And so Israel retaliated quickly against the guy.
And by the guy that they, this guy Shuker, who they took out, is also one of the guys who planned in 1983 the murder of over 200 American Marines in the Marine barracks in Beirut, as well as killing 60 people within the American embassy in Beirut.
So this is a guy who had American blood on his hands.
So that's the first sign that Israel was kind of, you know, fighting back.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
And then the next day, you know, 12 of the senior Hezbollah leaders are gathering in Beirut to plan a ground attack on the northern Galilee, which would have been catastrophic, would have been another October 7th.
Israel... You know, intercepts the communications, figures out where they are, kills them all, you know, in a missile attack.
And now, you know, what we're seeing is that every day Israel's going in, targeting exactly where their missiles are, where their rockets are.
Hezbollah's back on their heels.
They have literally, in two weeks, completely changed the balance of power between Israel and Hezbollah.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
right? What people are fighting—not what they're fighting for, the nature of how they fight.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Look, Israel has not had a day of peace with its neighbors since 1948.
It's still in a state of war with Lebanon.
It's still in a state of war with Syria.
Not the case with Jordan or Egypt, but two northern countries.
It's still in a state of war, obviously, with Hamas.
It's in a state of conflict with the Palestinian Authority, Islamic Jihad.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
That gives these people hope that they can actually defeat Israel.
I think for the first time in my lifetime, some of these nations actually felt that they could defeat Israel.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
They can make it go away. They watch what's happening in America.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
And all of a sudden, I think, you know, Israel finally said, enough.
We're not committing suicide.
We're going to go back and restore deterrence.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And it's very, very important. What did you make of the reaction to the beeper situation?
Because I thought it was a really very stark, obvious way of looking at who the rational actors are.
So, of course, there's always going to be some people that hate Israel relentlessly or whatever.
But I saw certain people being, well, okay, the beeper might have been in a car with the son and the uncle and whatever.
It's like, well, you guys, you always demand permission.
Proportional response. So would the proportional response be, okay, we'll fire 8,000 rockets at you?
Would that be proportional? Instead, they did the most targeting thing ever.
So I guess what I'm saying is it basically pulled the mask off of the people that kind of go both ways on a lot of this.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, and people that, you know, were in very high positions in U.S. government.
Look, Leon Panetta. Leon Panetta, I mean, unbelievable.
CIA director, chief of staff for Obama, secretary of defense.
He gets up and says this is a war crime.
Now, you know, I hadn't really thought very much about whether it was a war crime or not beforehand because it just seems so obvious to me that when you criticize Israel for not being targeted, and here they are, they're the most targeted thing you could possibly do.
It can't be a war crime, right?
But I went back and looked at it. I looked at what he was referring to.
And, you know, there's this, you know, legal, you know, international legal, you know, doctrine that talks about booby-trapping things.
You know, as being a war crime.
But then, except if it's targeted against your enemy who are engaged in military combat against you.
You know, so the whole thing's nonsense.
It's not a war crime, of course.
But that was, you know, we have serious people in our government, you know, serious leaders who are critical of what Israel did.
And it's unfathomable that that's the case.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So I sense, I mean, I can even see a little glimmer in your eye, like, that you really feel like this thing has now turned, at least for maybe the first time in these 11 months.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
It actually is, you know, all the people in Washington who try to figure this out, they're all wrong.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
They don't understand the Middle East.
If you want to be peaceful here, you got to come out with things like this is how you bring peace.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Are you surprised that people don't learn?
I mean, having done the Abraham Accords the way that you guys did it, which was completely against conventional wisdom that leave the Palestinians aside for the moment, let's deal with these other countries.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
You'd think that maybe people that were good actors might say, oh, maybe there's some new ways to think about these things, but they just simply don't.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, they don't. I mean, the left is frozen in failed policies.
I say, you know, the two-state solution is the mother's milk of the Democrat Party.
For example, they wanted to expand the Abraham Accords to include Saudi Arabia.
Okay, it's a great idea. We would have done it by now had we still been in office.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Most Americans don't want to be in a war.
There's wars happening all over this. We're funding a lot of wars.
There's all sorts of weird stuff. But what do you think proper policy is?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
I mean, the policy that we were using back in 2019 and 2020 was working.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Look, Let's go back and look at, you know, it's really America's policy that matters in the world, right?
What is America? Largest economy in the world, largest military in the world, most influence in the world.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Those decisions when Biden administration took over, is that naivete or is that something much worse?
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
I don't know.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
I don't know whether he's got an economic interest in these countries.
I don't know whether it's stupidity.
There are a lot of really, really dumb people that he surrounds himself with, again, who are wed to this academic approach which doesn't work.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
So the right policy with Iran is to bankrupt them.
You know, it doesn't matter how maligned they are, they will not pursue policies themselves if it causes their own bankruptcy.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
And that's what we need to be doing.
We had them on their ropes. They had a $180 billion GDP in 2020.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
They're now over $450 billion.
They've more than doubled it. Countries don't double their GDP in two years.
They just don't, unless somebody gives them a big assist.
And that's the mistake right now.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And we gave them a hell of a lot of money and got it.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
We could have written them a check, would have had the same effects.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Yeah. Well, didn't we? We did write them check.
We effectively did, yes. In essence, we did.
Yes. So I want to ask you one other thing about October 7th specifically, and then I want to get to—I thought the title of the book is particularly interesting, actually.
So, okay, we're about to hit this anniversary.
You mentioned to me you're going to be back—you're not going to be in Israel for October 7th.
You'll be back on the 8th.
What is the mood of the nation sort of at this moment?
And you were saying sort of it's in a weird way to commemorate it this year.
It's particularly bizarre because they're still in the middle of it.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Look, a memorial service for those who were lost for, you know, a recognition of the bravery of the soldiers who have fought and been injured, or even if they weren't injured, their bravery was extraordinary.
I get that, but this idea of a writ large October 7th ceremony as if we're in a position to really evaluate, fully evaluate and understand October 7th, I think is premature.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
And so I think that day will come.
And I'd love to celebrate that day and, of course, always to recognize the losses.
I just think it's a little too soon.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Let me just ask you one other thing about the geopolitical part.
Is there anything that you think Israel could have done differently, basically, in these last 11 months, either militarily or diplomatically?
And where do you think Bibi fits in that?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
I think, you know, leaving aside the criticism, the well-deserved criticism for what happened on that day.
The failure, yeah. That was a failure.
Since that day, I think the pressure on Israel has been enormous not to fight back or to fight back with one hand tied behind his back.
Bibi, to his credit— And I think the real kind of place where the rubber hit the road was in Rafa.
You remember all eyes on Rafa, right?
And they told him, don't do it.
You can't do it, you know?
And, you know, you remember Kamala Harris, you know, I've read the maps.
I've studied the maps. By the way, I could have written that map on a napkin.
Yeah. That's how complicated the map is.
But, you know, I've studied the maps.
You can't do it. And he said, look, we're going to do it.
And he moved out the population.
There weren't inordinate casualties.
Had he not done that, firstly, he rescued six hostages as a result of that.
And they discovered the smuggling routes from Egypt.
If they didn't discover those routes, this would never end.
So... I think that, you know, I'm not smart enough.
Of course, there's things they probably could have done better in hindsight.
But I think the only issue is it took too long.
Could it have done sooner?
Yeah. Look, they've got 350 miles worth of terror tunnels.
Again, this is a criticism on the failure.
They didn't understand how bad it was and what they were dealing with.
And so, to wipe out, you know, Hamas, I say, had the greatest home court advantage in the history of ground warfare.
There's no other place in the world which is that small, that kind of terror apparatus.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
What do you think is, I mean, Israel is so known for intelligence.
And when I was there with you in May, again, before October 7th, we were walking around Jerusalem.
And I kept saying to you that I could not believe that there were no soldiers on the streets because it felt so incredibly safe.
You're the ambassador.
We had lunch in the middle of Jerusalem in the middle of the day.
But how is it possible that there was a security failure of this nature, even as it relates to just cement getting in?
What do they think was happening with the cement?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
It's, it's, it's, I don't think there's an excuse.
I think it was, I think it was a certain level of, you know, collective arrogance.
You know, they're focusing on intercepting missiles going a thousand miles an hour.
You know, a bunch of physics, you know, PhDs were running the military.
I mean, very important part of the military.
But, you know, they neglected the offensive line.
You know, they didn't block and tackle the way, because they thought that was kind of beneath them, you know.
People were afraid of us.
It was arrogance.
And, look, you know, 9-11 was achieved with a bunch of box cutters, right?
I mean, it's the little things.
I always tell people, you know, I think it's the little things that get you, because, you know, you tend to ignore them.
And Israel clearly took their eye off the ball on the blocking and tackling.
I just hope that they'll never do it again.
I'm sure they'll never do it again, but usually a painful lesson.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So let's shift to sort of going forward, because we've done a bunch of what's happening now and a little bit of the past.
It says,"...the last best hope to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." I guess I'm going to give away probably the ending of the book, but do you think there is actually a resolution of the conflict?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Well, you know, I'd like to think that any conflict can ultimately get resolved if you just think hard and come up with the right solution.
I mean, I don't want to accept failure as being inevitable here.
There's two parts of the book.
The first part is to...
Convince people that shouldn't need to be convinced, but to convince people that there can't be a Palestinian state.
You know, and unfortunately, right now, around the entire world, whether it's the UN or America or anywhere else, the only resolution anybody talks about is the two-state solution, which would involve creating a Palestinian terrorist state.
So the first part of the book is you can't do that.
Why can't you do it? Because we tried it.
It didn't work.
What'd they do with all the money? You know, it's the same beachfront as Tel Aviv, right?
Western-facing, sunset on the Mediterranean.
They could have built hotels.
They could have built schools, infrastructure, roads.
They took all the money. First of all, the people elected Hamas.
Hamas didn't take it over. They were elected.
They elected Hamas, then proceeded to create 350 miles of terror tunnels and weapons of mass destruction, fired indiscriminately at Israeli civilians.
That's That's the first attempt at a Palestinian state.
Complete failure. The other side of Israel in the West Bank or today in Samaria as I refer to it, the Palestinian Authority has control over almost half of the West Bank, 40% of it.
And what have they done?
They've got places like Janine and Tulkaram and Ramallah and Abbas, also terror hotbeds.
And they, you know, what does their legislation look like, you know, in governing?
They created a pension system which rewards terrorists to kill Jews.
You kill a Jew, you get a bigger pension.
Kill two Jews, you get an even bigger pension.
You kill Jews and you die in the act.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Don't give the Democrats any ideas.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Yeah. Well, they're not—and we passed a law, you know, the Taylor Force Act outlawed the eighth of this, and Biden is giving them money anyway.
We, America, yeah. But my point is just that the Palestinian Authority isn't any better.
So we're not going to have a two-state solution that works, and we've got to think of an alternative.
So that's what the other part is. The alternative is one Jewish state.
Let Israel take over— Okay, the first reason We're good to go.
Commerce, business, law, medicine.
I mean, they do great. They have the best standard of living anywhere in the Middle East.
A dear friend of mine who's an Arab Muslim is the former chairman of Bangalumi, the largest bank in Israel.
Okay? So, Israel knows how to do this.
That's not number one. Number two.
I won't go into this in detail in the book, but legally, I mean, the American position legally for many years has been this land belongs to the Jewish people.
They have a better claim to it than anybody else, right?
And then the third thing is something which some people care about, some people don't, but I care about it, so I'm going to write about it.
You know, 20 million Bibles get purchased every year in the United States.
2,000 copies of the Bible are sold every hour.
I'd be thrilled with this book, you know, to get like a tiny percentage of that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I'll see what I can do for you. Link down below, don't worry.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
But... The Bible, the covenants of God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were that this land that we're talking about, this land, the West Bank, would be the Jewish people's forever.
The prophecies of Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, all that the Jewish people would return to this land.
This land is the high ground of the land of Israel.
It's been inhabited by Jews for 3,000 years.
Why? Because it's high, because it's where they can defend themselves.
And the places, Hebron, Bethlehem, Shiloh, Bethel.
I mean, Shiloh and Bethel, every state in America has a Shiloh and a Bethel, right?
Because of its biblical significance.
So this is the land that should be Jewish.
And by the way, So my view is that Israeli sovereignty over this territory,
over these territories referred to now as Palestinian territories, is a win-win for all.
It's good for Israel.
Israel will make it secure and safe.
It's good for the Palestinians.
Israel will make it prosperous with human dignity and opportunity.
It's good for the world because the biblical sites will be preserved, made available to all.
And nobody wants to talk about this.
This is, you know, people will say, I'm a colonizer, I'm an annexationist, and I'm...
This is the best outcome for the Palestinians, not just for the Jews.
And nobody's ever written this book.
I mean, no one with any diplomatic credentials in the United States has ever written this book.
And so after October 7th, I was motivated to get it out.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And yet, a certain set of people would have you believe that the Jews aren't supposed to live in the place that the story of Hanukkah is told?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Never about, you know, are we going to have, you know, a transparent economy?
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Are we going to have human rights? Are we going to have freedom of religion?
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
Are we going to, you know, who's going to live there and how are we going to govern ourselves?
Is it going to be a dictatorship, a monarchy?
You know, never.
The only motivation of this Palestinian Liberation Organization was to kill Jews, was to take over territory in a way that would exclude the Jews from the territory, push them into the sea.
That's all the Palestinian movement's ever been.
And the idea of giving them a state is just another way of saying, let's destroy Israel.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So not to go too black-pilled on you, because I tried not to go that road.
And you're trying to write something that's aspirational here, obviously.
But what do you think about the notion that in some ways, because these hatreds are so ancient, because...
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
But in some ways, it can't end because they need it.
The Israelis don't need it.
The Israelis want nothing to do with it, but they need it in a way to run their autocracies.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
So here's my response to that.
After October 7th, the college campuses in America blew up, right?
Anti-Semitism went crazy all around the world.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
The two million Arabs living inside of Israel, right?
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
Quiet. Why were they quiet?
I mean, they're the ones closest to the action.
Why were they quiet? Because they don't want to jeopardize what they got, because they've got good lives.
Their families are prospering.
So that's my hope.
My hope is that there are some Palestinians out there who can be appealed to, And when you see facts on the ground with better schooling, better hospitals, better roads, better commerce, better opportunity to sell and do it, I'm hopeful.
I can't tell you it's definitely going to happen, but I'm hopeful this is the solution.
Now, look, it could take 10 years, it could take 20 years, but we've got to change the trajectory where we're saying, okay, let's all work together to accomplish one Jewish state rather than to do something where more than 50 years with the stupid two-state solution is clearly pushing a square peg into a round hole, right?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
That's not going to work. So we barely talked about your former boss, but we did mention some of the things you guys accomplished, which were miraculous, and everyone said, oh, you're going to move the embassy to Jerusalem, and all hell's going to break loose, and basically nothing happened.
If Trump becomes president again, I assume you would be far more bullish that some of these things could actually happen, or that certain people might come to the table.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, no question. And look, I don't want to imply that he's read this book and has made this part of his policy because, you know, he's got bigger fish to fry right now.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
He's got to win an election. Well, I mean the general state of how things operate.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
But so I just sort of, in my mind, game it out and think of, you know, how would this play out?
Because we've had lots of discussions about this when I was in government.
So I said to him, look, you know, Mr.
President, I think...
That Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, over the entire West Bank, is going to, in the long run, be the only way to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
So the first thing he's going to say to me is, well, what do the Israelis want to do?
You know, I'm not going to move past the Israelis on this.
What do they want to do? It's a big lift.
I mean, they're taking over territory.
They're assuming responsibility for a lot of people that don't like them.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
I think they will. But they have to make this decision not on the basis of getting, you know, 61 seats in the Knesset and ramming it through, but actually kind of respecting people's views and having this process within the country.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
That's step one. If that goes well, I think if they come back to America and say, look, this is what we want to do.
This is why it's good for America, why it's good for Israel, why it's good for the region.
Trump will be receptive.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
You perform, you just run, grab them, and that's the extent of thought that's given to the two-state solution.
Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Right, you just say it. Just do it, that's it.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
No one's thinking about it. None of these people have to live with the consequences of being wrong.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
I mean, there's no margin of error here to be wrong.
You establish a Palestinian state, you know, within 10 miles of Tel Aviv and 20 miles of Jerusalem.
If you're wrong, that's it for Israel.
Right? So, but that's the extent of the thought.
And he's trying to challenge them on it.
They go, well, no, no. I mean, this is the answer.
I mean, it's the Heimlich maneuver.
It's what you do. And so, the first thing I want to do with this book is get people at least recognizing that there is an alternative.
Because I got to tell you, even Republicans don't spend a lot of time thinking about an alternative, you know?
And we have to, because this is our only choice, right?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I think I asked you some version of this when I saw you last time here, post-October 7th.
But do you think that there's an existential or spiritual element to this that needs to be explored more?
That a people who have been holocausted and pogromed and blah, blah, blah, here they are again, seemingly?
That there's something that's not exactly a geopolitical question that needs to be unfurled?
It's not really what we do well in societies, kind of talk about what's beneath everything?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Or, I guess. But there'll be a state of Israel.
There'll be a state of Israel long after all these other states are in the history books.
I think there's a special place in the world, and God, you know, I think looks over the state of Israel, and I think the Bible—I think, look, this is beyond, you know, probably our collective capabilities to really understand, but I think the world right now is desperate.
For some authentic values, meaningful values.
We're just not sure, you know, where we're going.
And Israel is the place where these values, from which they emerged, is the wellspring of the values.
It's also a way to anchor your faith because you can go back there and you say, Wait a second.
You know, this is not between me and my imaginary friend.
This is actually—these things happened.
They happened. They happened in Bethlehem.
They happened in Shiloh. They happened in Bethel.
I mean, all the stories, they actually happened in this archaeological evidence that they happened.
When you can take faith and anchor it in fact— It's very powerful.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Yeah. Everyone is so mixed up about boys being girls and whether the founding of any of our nations were good or not or anything else that it's just like, oh, well, I guess Israel just represents the old world.
It's like this couple thousand-year-old thing, and maybe if we just kind of let it go, we can usher in this new AI, genderless, you know, crazy world.
And I think that it's not so literal, but it's just like a subtext of what people are thinking in some sense.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Well, I think they do that at their peril.
I really think they do. I think, you know, these countries, British, you know, the Brits, the French, they're not going to survive this.
They're not going to survive. They're going to be taken over by hostile enemies from within.
You know, Isaiah said, you know, your destroyers will come from within.
That was his prophecy. I think England's coming true.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
What do you think, I mean, as it pertains to immigration and everything else, this is a bit separate from Israel, but Israel...
Welcome to my show!
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
What these countries are doing is, again, you know, without—I'm not speaking for every single person who comes in, but they're allowing their enemies—they're lounging Trojan horses into their countries all over the place.
It's not sustainable economically.
It's not sustainable politically.
And ultimately, you know, the—look, I think the radical Muslims don't underestimate them.
They play a long game. You know, they're prepared to take over countries in a way where they may never see it.
Their children may never see it.
But they're playing a long game for the ultimate, you know, Muslimization or Islamization or radical Islamization of the Western world.
Yeah. It's just happening right before us in plain sight.
It's very dangerous.
That's why I do have some optimism about Israel relative to its allies around the world.
Israel does not have that problem.
It does not suffer from a lack of self-identity.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I think you met my brother-in-law, who's Israeli, and we were talking about this, and I said to him, it seems to me that the West, largely, Europe specifically, is just dying a slow death.
Israel is at least fighting for its existence.
A lot of the Western countries don't seem like they're fighting.
They're just kind of allowing it, or they feel that they've allowed it, and now it's just too late or something.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Israel is the only country in the world where the youth are more conservative than the elderly, right?
You don't find that anywhere else in the world.
Because the youth understand what they're fighting for.
They understand the values. They want to preserve their values.
You know, Israel was founded by people very far to the left, right?
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
You know why? Because there are fewer workers around.
There are fewer Arab workers that can get into the country to do the building.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So it's only gone up. Well, it's probably also a lot of people from Paris that want to get there.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, they're racing in. They're all racing in.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
So the market, you know, I'm a big believer in market trends.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
You know, markets tell you things.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
The market's telling you to bet on Israel.
And I certainly do.
They know where they're going.
And You remember when October 7th happened, you know, most wars, everybody's trying to get out, right?
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
The flights are leaving packed and they're coming back empty, right?
After October 7th, you know, the flights were leaving empty and coming back packed.
All the Israelis on vacation, all, you know, the soldiers, they like to go to Nepal and to South America.
They tour for a year, you know, after the army.
They're all rushing back to serve their country.
Tells you a lot about the soul of the state of Israel.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Let me just ask you one or two things on the personal side.
You bounce back and forth, obviously, between Florida, which I always tell you is the other promised land, and Israel.
How does that feel for you being in these two different places?
And, you know, do you miss it when you're there?
Are you very aware of the difference of the struggle all the time and all that stuff?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Whenever I leave Israel, I miss it.
I really like Florida.
I mean, you know, there's something...
You're talking to the right guy. I really do like it.
I mean, first of all, you know, all our homes in the world are geared to where our kids are.
So we have kids in Florida, we have a home there.
We have kids in New York, got a home there.
to his credit. These girls, they came, they shared their opinions, they shared their thoughts.
And it's like Isaac said, I do this for a living. I express my opinion for a living.
I think it was more casual for them. But I appreciate it coming on. I thought it was a good conversation. And it's good to flesh out the topics. I think they represent what everybody thinks about the issues. I think in that way, it was balanced. I represent kind of the opposite view.
And I'm really not trying to score slam dunks and say, oh, well, I got you in my trap. I'm trying to get people to think about a totally different way of thinking in the sense that you could see so much of the talk is, well, everyone should vote.
Yeah, but then, you know, it's also a very small country with a lot of people, a lot of traffic, a lot of, you know, and so it's good to get out every now and then, come to Florida, recharge your batteries, get a little rest.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
We got a traffic situation down here.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
You do, but not so bad in Boca.
Everyone has rights. Women have rights.
You know, we live in a gated place.
Everybody has these unexamined assumptions about how the world is and how it should be.
We got to, you know, I go to the club and work out and get a trainer.
I mean, it's It's all good.
At my age, it's good to do both.
But there's nothing like Israel, no place in the world like Israel.
And what's best about it is when America is really with it.
That's when you marry.
For me, I get to marry the place of my birth and my heritage and the place of my faith, and also my heritage.
When you put those two together, go back and forth, and you see the relationship, and they're all We're good to go.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
In Jerusalem, basically a month from now or so, at the end of Yom Kippur, what would your message be for all the Jews sitting around and not eating for a day and then eating and trying to link that story to everything right now?
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
Well, look, to all Jews, you know, religious, secular, orthodox, conservative, reform, whatever, however you observe your Judaism, or even if you don't observe your Judaism, I'd like everyone to think just about this magnificent continuum that we're part of, right? I mean, there's nobody around from 3,000 years ago except us.
You know, you go to the Western Wall in Jerusalem, you are praying the same prayer in the same language, in the same location as where our ancestors prayed 2,000 years ago.
I hope people care enough about that not to break this chain.
You know, it's a glorious continuum.
Majestic. You know, there's a majesty to being Jewish and surviving, getting to this place.
And we brought the world so much wisdom and learning.
I'm not talking about the high-tech stuff, which, you know, You know, it appeals to me.
You know, it's cool, but it's not.
But I was talking about the value. I mean, the Judeo-Christian values, the wellspring is in Israel, and we need to hang on to that.
We need to find our own way.
You know, I happen to be Orthodox, so it's more regimented.
You know, I pray, I go to the synagogue, but everyone should try to find a way to hang on to our Jewish heritage because it's threatened now more than ever.
But if we can meet this challenge and come out on the other side of this stronger than ever, I think we'll all be, we'll all have done, you know, something really important and valuable.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Ambassador, it was a pleasure as always, and I suppose next year in Jerusalem.
david m friedman ▲ ● ▼
This year in Jerusalem. This year in Jerusalem.
▲
Export Selection