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March 11, 2021 - Rudy Giuliani
01:02:19
CARTELS CONTROL The US-Mexico Border | Rudy Giuliani And Lara Logan | Ep. 118
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Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani with Rudy's Common Sense.
Today we're going to focus on something I'm sure you're reading about, seeing, hearing about, oh gosh, for at least the last week, two weeks, and that's the border crisis and just how bad it is and how bad it will become.
And we have, as a guest, someone who probably knows the most about it.
She spent a great deal of time on both sides of the border.
She studied it and presented it on Fox quite effectively.
But also, she's just a world of knowledge about it and has a very, very good perspective on it.
We couldn't have anyone better on, or any braver or better reporter than Lara Logan.
Lara, how are you?
Thank you, Rudy.
That's very gracious.
Well, it's very true, Lara.
And you're focusing on a subject, and you started this a long time ago when nobody was paying attention.
All of a sudden, the eyes of the world are on the U.S.-American border.
And I guess we'll begin with a general question, so everybody is trying to characterize it.
Is it a problem?
Is it a crisis?
Is it a great—how bad is the situation at the border?
And where at the border?
It's not the whole border, it's certain places.
Well, so I live in Texas, not too far from the border.
And I've spent a lot of time down everywhere from McAllen to Brownsville to Laredo to tiny little places like Roma, Texas, in the Rio Grande Valley.
The Rio Grande Valley is really one of the epicenters here.
But I was also, just in December, I was in Arizona.
And Arizona has a lot of issues there.
As well, it's a different kind of movement because of the terrain.
But Rudy, if you want to know, the numbers do lie to a degree because they minimize the problem.
So you know, when the numbers are that you have over 102,000 people came illegally into the U.S.
last month, right?
In February.
That is without adding all the people that got away.
Because there's another 26,000 gotaways.
Then there are the turnbacks.
Those are the people who ran back into Mexico when they were seen or when they were chased.
And then you have other categories, like non-violations, that no one's determined.
And then you have all the people that weren't picked up by the censors and the cameras.
So that is an extraordinary number of people that Border Patrol agents haven't seen, some of them, say, in two decades.
And why does that matter?
Well, because You are talking about people who are being controlled.
Their movement is being controlled by the most powerful criminal organizations in the world.
And I want to ask you, Rudy, you know better than anyone else, why do we only talk about the border or a crisis at the border when it's an immigration crisis or a humanitarian crisis?
Why do we not talk about the security crisis at the border that has been going on for some time and is getting exponentially worse?
You have the most violent and powerful criminal organizations in the world who are running basically a parallel government in Mexico.
The Mexican government takes their orders from the cartels.
They recently doubled down on their sovereignty.
They removed immunity from prosecution for all U.S.
agents.
They forced their own law enforcement officers to go through a fusion cell for any of their communications.
And they can be charged with treason if they don't report exactly what those communications are about.
So basically, You know, U.S.
law enforcement has been pretty much shut down in Mexico.
They've doubled down on their sovereignty, and this administration has opened up the border.
And the numbers are only one part of the story, because they're also taking agents off security patrols, and they are making sure that we really don't see the scale of the crisis, because they're pushing people through as quickly as possible.
Border Patrol detained people for the briefest amount of time, because they don't want anything coming back on them.
And they're now releasing, the majority of them who are being released, get given a form, which is own recognizance.
So if you come from Honduras or Guatemala or El Salvador... Yeah, that's an old story, right?
Yeah.
Yep, you get this.
But Rudy, no, this isn't an old story.
This is an abbreviated version, an expedited version of the old story.
They're no longer DNA testing to make sure that people are really family members.
They are no longer interviewing people.
They are just releasing them on their own recognizance.
What about COVID?
Well, that's a very good question because the Trump administration, under Title 42 public health restrictions, because Mexico is a COVID hotspot, they used that to get temporary orders in place where they were returning everyone.
Then a judge in New York in a case that was brought by the ACLU said, you can't return children and unaccompanied minors.
So those have been let into the country.
And what people don't realize is that Border Patrol doesn't test anyone for COVID.
And so now family groups are also being released into the country.
They're not being tested.
Unaccompanied minors are not being tested.
Those numbers are through the roof.
That's a lot of material for people to cover.
So let's go back for one second because this one really, really confuses me.
So if a couple comes in and they're They're scheduled for a hearing.
They go out on their own recognizance.
I mean, they're released, basically.
They're released into the general population, the United States of America.
Are they tested for COVID before they're released?
No.
And how bad is COVID in Mexico?
Well, it's a COVID hotspot.
It's much worse than it is in the United States.
And also, Rudy, you're talking about people who don't have access to health care in Mexico.
They don't have access to mosques.
They're not living in hygienic conditions.
They're living in the worst possible conditions you can imagine.
They come in without masks.
They're the most vulnerable.
They come in without masks.
I've been down there on the border and I've seen them coming over with no masks.
In fact, one man who was separated from a group with another person with him, he had a high fever and all the rest of it.
I took my mask off and I gave it to the Border Patrol agents to put on him.
So could you say this is a possible super-spreader event?
Rudy, you know, if you're worried about super-spreader events, this is the ultimate super-spreader.
No, I'm saying this is the ultimate super-spreader event of all time because you've got, what is it?
Look at the numbers.
102,000 people came over the southern border in the month of February alone.
And not one of them was tested for COVID.
Now, when the cities get them, like the city of Brownsville, they tested people.
But it's up to these border towns and border cities.
If they have the money and the resources and the inclination, they can do testing.
But Rudy, these towns, they're poor anyway.
Of course they are.
Of course they are.
Yes.
These are some of the poorest places in the United States.
The only reason I asked you that silly question, which you appropriately laughed at, is maybe we can get the attention of the left wing if we say it's a super spreader event.
I mean, my goodness, a football game gets them concerned with 30,000 people who are spread apart by 10 miles.
These people are coming over.
They've been together for weeks and weeks and weeks.
They've been in some of the most infected parts of the world.
And we let them in.
We don't test them.
And we send them into cities.
And then they can go to other cities if they want.
Well, in fact, and not only that, we pay for that, right?
So we pay them to be super spreaders.
The U.S.
taxpayers are paying to put them in facilities, to house them, and to put them on buses and send them all across the country.
And no one is telling you when they're coming into your community.
Nobody is telling you how many are coming.
And so far, although there's been very limited testing by city officials in border towns and cities, what they're finding when they do test is very high numbers of COVID.
I read somewhere, I may be confused, that three, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Kansas are somehow gonna bear the biggest burden of this.
Is that a decision that was made, or why is that?
I'll tell you, it's very, very simple.
Where is the Texas Department of Public Safety right now?
Where have they marshaled all of their resources?
Where are U.S.
sheriffs?
Where are U.S.
law enforcement?
Texas's position is that if the federal government isn't going to do their job, If the federal government isn't going to secure this nation, if they're just going to open the border and they're going to bypass the legal immigration system and they're going to decriminalize coming into the United States and breaking the laws of a sovereign nation, then they're going to do it, which is very helpful for the federal government because they don't have to pay for it.
Texas does.
Can you help people kind of focus on where On the border, most of this is happening because the border is huge and it's hard to imagine how much in Texas, how much as you move over toward Arizona, New Mexico, California.
Texas is the epicenter at the moment.
Arizona is next.
There are people coming through New Mexico through the mountains, but there you're talking about vastly different terrain.
It's, you know, the mountains are very treacherous.
And it's much easier in El Paso.
Rudy, let me tell you, in El Paso, the Rio Grande River is a trickle.
It takes you half a second to step over it.
Right?
Yep.
Sure.
Sure.
Anybody can do it.
Anybody can do it.
Exactly.
Anybody can do it.
And look at Laredo, Texas.
Laredo, at the port of entry there, you have one of the busiest ports in the nation.
And even during the pandemic, they had 2,000, up to 2,000 more trucks coming through the Laredo port of entry.
than they did before the pandemic.
So, you know, Laredo gets a lot of single males.
That's where you find a lot of people with criminal records because of that.
But you also, through the Rio Grande Valley, you get a lot of families in McAllen and Roma, Texas, areas like that, Del Rio, Eagle Pass.
These are really sort of centers for a lot of the unaccompanied minors and the family groups right now.
And then in Arizona, you also have, you know, coming across where there's Cochise County Little border towns like that.
There's a lot coming up through there, all the way into Pinal County, some, you know, around 70 miles inland from the border, where Sheriff Mark Lamb is based, where you have a lot of illegal immigrants coming there.
It's kind of a nexus there, before they get sent out to the rest of the country.
And of course, Houston is a major center.
It's a stopping point, a halfway house, lots of stash houses.
I mean, they're everywhere, but, you know, Houston gets a lot of traffic.
So a lot of them are coming into Houston.
So what is Houston doing to protect itself from coronavirus?
Not a lot.
I mean, by the time they get to Houston, they've gone through private ranch lands, they've gone through public roadways, they've been held in stash houses in conditions that are equally as horrific as they are held in Mexico very often.
And they still, they're not given access to medical care.
They're not given access to real food.
I mean, once, you know, they get send off from health and human services.
You know, how many of these people are going to their own home and a job that's waiting for them and resources, right?
I mean, they're not.
The impression that you get from the Biden administration is that the people that are let out on their own recognizance or the children that are let go, they're going to a family member.
Is that mostly true or untrue?
Okay, well, so first of all, they don't know who's a child and who's not a child.
Because they're not verifying anyone's age.
So that's number one.
And there are people, you know, who, um, who are 22, 23, 24, 25 years old.
I've seen that, right?
Yeah.
Who are saying that they're a minor.
So that's one thing.
The second thing that people, it's very, you know, it can be confusing, right?
Because border patrol get different guidance every day.
And what they tell me is that it's really Mexico calling the shots.
One day an unaccompanied minor is age seven and below.
Then another day, it's 10 and below.
Then it's 12, 14, 17.
And that is relevant because it applies to family groups.
So unaccompanied minors don't come over with any parents.
They're unaccompanied, which is why it's so ironic when you hear about them being separated from their families and parents, right?
Because when they come over the border, they're already separated.
But when they talk about family groups, right now, the Biden administration has expanded the definition of a family group.
So you no longer have to be just immediate family.
You can be extended family, like a grandmother or an aunt or a cousin.
And if you have a child in your group and the guidance changes, but I think it's still at seven years old and below, the whole group gets to stay, right?
So that's all of those people in that group.
And then there's the category of people that Mexico doesn't want.
And those are the people from, you know, Muslim countries, from some African countries, from China.
Those are the ones that Mexico says, they're your problem and we don't want them back.
And, you know, the Biden administration is absolutely silent on what is happening with these people
because they're also being released.
Well, you know, Lara, I've thought this for quite some time, but that reminds me
of the Mario Bolt left when Castro said to a very simple-minded Carter, you know,
I'll send you all my people.
And Carter said, we'll take all your people.
Castro said, fine.
He sent him 100,000 good people.
And he sent him 25,000 people from the worst insane asylums in Cuba, including people that were chopping people's heads off.
And they created a two-, three-year crime wave that was one of the worst we've ever seen in America.
Is the same thing happening in Mexico?
Are they dumping some of their worst problems, hiding them in the groups that come over?
Of course.
Because, Rudy, I mean, why would you not?
I mean, if you're China and you want, you know, if you're China and you want to infiltrate hackers and spies and all those people who are not monitored by the embassy and U.S.
intelligence agencies, that's where you're going to send them.
If you're a terrorist and you want to come into this country, there was a terrorist that was apprehended who was from Yemen.
Now, you don't ever hear about this, but I know because I saw the paperwork.
I saw the BOLO, the law enforcement notice that was put out about it.
And I saw the parts of it that, you know, I was allowed to see.
And that person was apprehended.
How many other terrorists are coming across that border that we don't know about?
And the first thing that people will say to you is, well, you're suggesting that, you know, all of these hardworking, decent people are all terrorists.
No, that's not what you're suggesting at all.
The point here is not everyone is being trafficked for, you know, for child pornography.
But how many people are?
Not everyone is a terrorist, but how many people are?
Does it, you know, if there's a million people that come over the border in this fiscal year, and only, you know, a tiny fraction of them are terrorists, think about what that translates to in actual numbers.
If we have a hundred hardcore terrorists that infiltrate the United States over the southern border, What is the harm that they're able to do?
It didn't take 100 to do 9-11, did it?
Yes, ma'am.
That's right.
Absolutely.
Okay, Lara, let's just take a short break right now.
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Thank you for coming back.
So I've got to take you back to one of the things that I think you found before anyone else.
I'm not even sure that people understand this yet.
Who really runs immigration into the United States?
It's out of control in Mexico.
It's out of control in the United States.
But it seems to be happening in a deliberate way.
Somebody's running it.
Somebody's in charge.
Who's in charge of immigration into the United States?
The Mexican cartels.
And you can ask people in Homeland Security Investigations, in the Department of Homeland Security, in local law enforcement, in Texas law enforcement, you know, more sophisticated agencies like DPS.
You can ask any of them and they will tell you.
You know how they know, Rudy?
Because they've been down on the border and they've watched it.
They have seen how.
This is what the cartels do.
Yeah, tell us how it works.
It's very interesting and you're one of the few people that really, really knows it.
How does it work?
Well, if you have somewhere like in Texas, right?
Much of the border in Texas is the river, the Rio Grande River.
So what you'll have is the cartels will have what they call harcones, which are hawks, which are their scouts.
And they will have gates every so, you know, certain distance apart all along that border on both sides.
And those harcones are there night and day, 24 seven, right?
Seven days a week.
Yes.
the border for them, for the cartels, it never, ever, ever shuts down.
So they do on their side what we should be doing on our side.
They figure out where they like to come in.
And they have people there to make sure they don't elude them.
Yes.
They decide who's going to cross, where you're going to cross, how many you're going to cross,
when you're going to cross.
And believe me, when you're crossing and they're sending people here, you
know they're sending drugs and weapons and money somewhere else.
Because they're very strategic, they're very tactical, they're very well-trained, and they're incentivized, right?
And what they're doing, Rudy, just so you know, those lines of surveillance and counter-surveillance, they extend all the way through Mexico, and they extend some 20 to 30 miles into the United States.
Because I've spoken to agents who've literally They've done surveillance and counter surveillance operations, and they've mapped out these networks at times, and that's what they found.
And what's really significant for people to understand is that the cartels are a shadow government in Mexico today.
They are a parallel government that is giving orders to the Mexican government.
They are in control of every aspect of that border.
When you hear U.S.
law enforcement tell you the border is not secure and the cartels are in charge, That should get everybody's attention.
And it doesn't, which is extraordinary because you're talking about people who have armored vehicles, who have more money than anyone on this planet.
They are so wealthy.
And the people, the flow of people is now so lucrative that they've taken over the human smuggling.
They used to subcontract that out and take a cut.
Now they're in charge of it because it's so valuable.
And we're not even talking about what you're getting for special interest aliens or terrorists or your more high value targets.
or family members of cartel leaders who are living in the United States, who are going back and forth.
There's whole levels of the pay scale.
And it's really extraordinary that while the U.S.
has opened its border, Mexico has closed their border.
They've doubled down on their sovereignty and taken away the ability of U.S.
law enforcement to operate on Mexican soil, which is their right, because U.S.
law enforcement has no jurisdiction.
So why are we still using the same model So, roughly, how many cartels are there that are sophisticated?
shows that in spite of our best efforts, it isn't enough.
So roughly, how many cartels are there that are sophisticated, that are what you're describing?
People may have the impression you're describing a bunch of bandits, but what you're describing
are very, very sophisticated organized criminals.
We have to think Russian organized crime, the Italian mafia, Chinese organized crime,
people of that level, right?
Major criminals.
Major criminals who are heavy into the arms smuggling business, the drug business, the human trafficking business, from which they've made hundreds of millions and billions of dollars.
So these are rich, powerful people.
Rudy, these aren't just rich, powerful people, and they're not just organized crime.
You know why?
Because the Mexican cartels have something that none of the other cartels have ever had, which is narcotics.
They control more than 90% of the global trade in narcotics.
And as you know, every street gang in America, every street gang in every city in the world, what is their currency?
What do they live on and survive on?
Narcotics.
What do the other cartels and criminal organizations live on and survive on?
Narcotics.
So if you are controlling that, then you have more power than anyone else has ever had.
And not only that, the cartels have diversified.
They now do something called huachicaleo.
They've been doing this for years.
It's industrial-scale theft of oil in Mexico.
Industrial?
Say that again, please.
What's it called?
It's called huachicaleo.
which is the Spanish word, it's what the Mexicans call it.
It's industrial-scale theft of oil.
So Mexican state-run oil company is completely corrupted.
And the Mexicans have been siphoning off the oil.
The cartels have been taking the oil, and they decide who gets it, who doesn't, and they decide the prices.
They've gone into the avocado industry.
For the last few years, one of the most violent places in Mexico was where the avocados was in Michoacan, which is, you know, further from the border than normal.
And that is where they have taken over the avocado industry.
So every hipster in America who's ordering avocado toast.
If you're ordering avocado toast, Ruthie, you're financing a cartel.
I just had avocado last night.
Don't make me feel bad.
But, I mean, the reality is this is like the mafia taking over the cheapskate's union.
The mafia taking over the garment industry.
In other words, this is the thing about organized crime that makes it really dangerous.
That is absolutely correct.
In fact, it's so interesting that you brought that up, and you're the only one who ever does, because I just got some very significant information, which was breaking down the roles of certain people in a very powerful cartel.
Correct?
That is absolutely correct.
In fact, it's so interesting that you brought that up and you're the only one who ever does,
because I just got some very significant, very significant information, which was breaking
down the roles of certain people in a very powerful cartel.
And what's so interesting is the guy who was running this cartel has just left that position
to take the position as the political front.
He's the guy that manages all the political relationships.
He's the guy that is the interface between the cartel that's giving the orders to the political infrastructure.
So he has all the judges and politicians in his pocket.
Yep.
Like they say in The Godfather.
He has all the judges and politicians in his pocket.
Wow.
Can you identify him?
Oh, well, do I want to live?
No, I want you to live, dear.
No, don't identify him if you can't.
No.
Okay.
You know, I would not do that.
Do we know who he is?
The United States?
I can't say.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
But I will tell you, Rudy, you know what I will tell you?
These cartels are operating.
Sinaloa Cartel is in more than 50 countries.
The Cartel Jalisco New Generation, which is the newest cartel and considered the most violent and extremely powerful, moving extremely fast.
Which one is that?
Cartel Jalisco New Generation, CJNG, is what they're known as.
They're so powerful and so violent that Sinaloa Cartel, which is, you know, the oldest in Mexico, Sinaloa, which has been a rival of Cartel del Golfo, the Gulf Cartel, they are now joining forces to fight CJNG in certain places.
And the Zeta cartel, you know, Los Zetas, which was the one that was targeted by former president of Mexico, Felipe Calderon, right?
They were targeted and they're the one that's best known to the U.S.
because the Zs, as some people call them, they became such a brand and they became so big and famous.
But they were really crippled in Felipe Calderon's war on drugs.
And so they went away for a while, but they've come back.
They've rebranded as CDN, which is Cartel del Noreste.
And that cartel has become formidable because they really were the people that brought military discipline and military training to the whole world of the cartels.
And whatever tactic one cartel brings in, they proliferate among all of them.
So yes, you know, the Zetas were trained in part by U.S.
Special Forces, Green Berets.
And they were recruited out of Mexican Special Forces, and they were brought in by the Gulf Cartel originally, and then they broke off and became their old cartel.
But that old alliance... Why did we train them?
What is the mission of the U.S.
Green Berets?
Special Forces' mission is foreign internal defense.
That's what they were created for.
They do that for U.S.
allies all over the world.
They help U.S.
allies Of course.
military so that they can, the theory is that you're creating strong allies and strong partners.
Of course, I mean that has a good purpose if it's done the right way.
Well, it was done the right way and that's, you know, that's part of the problem because
they do it so well that the Zetas' real distinction is this military discipline and training.
They've taken those tactics and they've used them to very, very, very good effect.
And the Zetas have come back.
Everybody had written them off, but they are now CDN.
And they have, you know, they really own Nuevo Laredo.
If you look at the Texas border and you look right across the border from Laredo, Texas, you have Nuevo Laredo on the Mexican side.
And that is real traditional CDN turf.
And they are back in control of that, and they've moved beyond that.
They've moved into Miguel Aleman, which is right across the border from Roma, Texas, as you move towards the Rio Grande Valley.
And that's been Gulf cartel territory for the longest time.
And for, you know, I've been down there, Rudy, when I was there in December, I'm not kidding you, okay?
Night after night, we're talking about gun battles.
with 40 millimeter grenades.
I got out of the car at, I don't know, four o'clock in the morning.
And the first thing I heard was the unmistakable sound of a 50 caliber machine gun.
And let me tell you, it's not hard because they're using many 50 cals in one battle.
It's not like it's a couple shots here and there.
And that sound is distinctive.
I know it from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.
And to hear that right on the border and have people only define the border in terms of immigration and migrant care is really the, you know, it's an extraordinary dereliction of duty on the part of leaders in this country on both sides of the aisle, Republican and Democrats.
I mean, right now, the Democrats and the Biden administration is responsible for an astonishing disregard for US law because they've bypassed the legal immigration system.
But the Republicans do not get a free pass on this.
Their record on this has been abysmal.
It's a shame.
It really is a shame.
So how many cartels of note, of substance, would you say we're dealing with?
So the main ones are Sinaloa Cartel, which is the oldest, and for the longest time has been the number one supplier of narcotics, illegal narcotics, into the U.S.
Then you have Very significant cartels, the Zetas rebranded as CDN, you have the Gulf Cartel, and you have CJNG, Cartel Jalisco New Generation.
Now, of course, you have the Juarez Cartel, and you have, you'll read, some analysts will tell you, oh, Mexico's got 50, 60, 100 cartels.
You know, no, not really.
What they do, these cartels, so effectively, is they get, you know, they have relationships and histories, and they have loyal people.
And they will have a cartel like, for example, in Guadalajara in Jalisco province.
Chapo used to be in the Guadalajara cartel.
Well, El Chapo then went into Sinaloa and the Guadalajara cartel ceased to exist.
But now you have in that same area a cartel, Jalisco New Generation, from Jalisco province, right?
That has risen up.
And so these old relationships between the Gulf cartel and Sinaloa and the Zetas, those relationships are strategically reforming to counter the power and the violence of CJNG.
They're the new kids on the block, and they don't care about the old relationships.
You know, Rudy, you remember how the mob... Yeah, they can be the most violent very often.
Because remember how the mob would be in New York, that, you know, they were violent, but they had certain things that they wouldn't do, and they believed in the family, and, you know, this was their neighborhood, this was their turf.
Well, that's how Sinaloa is.
This is their neighborhood, this is their turf, You know, they want to take care of their own.
It doesn't work like that for CJ and G.
They couldn't care less.
They will literally... They have methods of killing people, Rudy, that you just cannot believe what you're seeing.
So what we're looking at is something closer to MS-13.
That kind of a group.
In terms of violence.
I mean, in terms of violence, not in terms of... Yes.
But MS-13 work for the cartels.
I mean, like, literally.
So the violence that they're perpetuating in MS-13 is proliferated.
And they do this because this is the way to challenge the old-timers.
This is the way to shake it up.
You know, I really wanted to try and understand the violence.
Why so violent?
Why so merciless?
What about all the women?
So many women have disappeared in Mexico that Human Rights Watch actually had to come up with a term, femicide, because they'd never seen anything like it.
Why the children?
Why the cruelty?
Why?
And the answer that I came up with, Rudy, after, I mean, honestly, I tortured people with this question.
And I really came to understand it is about the old bosses and it's about the new bosses, right?
It's, I mean, about the new people coming up.
It's about making sure that the guy under you doesn't dare take you out.
It's about terrorizing your rivals so that nobody challenges you for that territory.
It's, you know, it's primarily, it's a form of terror.
I mean, it's to instill absolute, Tara, in the people of Mexico, in your rivals, in the people around you, it's to make sure that nobody does the right thing, that no law enforcement officer would dare, that no child would dare tell anyone the truth.
I mean, it really is the most absolute form of terrorism.
Lara, I think this would be a good time for a break.
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Thank you for coming back and let's proceed with our interview of Lara Logan.
It really is fascinating.
So if I understand it correctly, although we think there's like tremendous number of cartels, there really are five or six that are the main ones.
And then they have shifting alliances probably with smaller ones.
Much, yes.
Which are kind of factions.
They're factions of the same cartel because they're still loyal.
And even within the cartels, like Sinaloa is so big, That you have, you know, the people that are loyal to RCQ, who's one of the main leaders.
Then you have Los Chapitos, who are the successors to Chapito, right?
His sons.
So the Los Chapitos is one part of that.
You know, so it breaks down within the cartels, but let me tell you, they are so strategic that none of those differences mean anything when they need each other.
They couldn't care less.
And people think that's the absence of ideology.
But it's really not the absence of ideology because the ideology that drives it is they want to control the state and take over the government without having any of the responsibility of government.
It's just that it challenges our definition of what ideology and ideologically motivated crimes and terrorism are.
But, you know, when people call these people, they say this is like a business and that they're taxing people.
I don't like those distinctions.
I don't use them because I don't know It's been a long time since 15th century England.
You're right.
Yeah.
But what are we doing about it?
I mean, this is a perfect application of the United States racketeering statutes.
Yeah.
It's a perfect application of it.
Even though they're offshore, they're affecting the United States.
So we have jurisdiction.
Why are we not aggressively identifying them?
You know, doing the great charts, the great big charts that we used to have, the boss, the number two, the number three, the groups.
Why are we?
It doesn't seem to me that the Justice Department has a massive program to deconstruct these organizations.
Well, you're right.
I mean, first of all, it's not just that it begins long before then, where you don't even have a real threat assessment.
The Department of Defense isn't doing it.
The Department of Homeland Security isn't doing it.
The Uniformed Crime Report isn't capturing the true nature of the crimes.
You'll have people say that, well, this is just, you know, they're just selling drugs.
No.
What about the car theft, which cars are being stolen to move drugs?
What about the murders and home invasions where one cartel is stealing from another on U.S.
soil?
Or people are being assassinated on the orders of a cartel because someone is accused of skimming.
Yes, yes.
But no one cares about the drug dealer that's dying, right?
What about all of the crimes that are taking place every day in this country that we're not capturing and sharing that data and letting the American people or even U.S.
law enforcement know how interconnected these problems are and where they stem from?
And Rudy, something very significant that no one is talking about enough.
is that the Mexican cartels have strategic relationships.
They have them with people like Hezbollah, with other terrorist groups.
They've had them for a long time.
And guess who one of their number one partners is today?
Is the Chinese.
The Chinese have not only been the people that are providing them with the precursor chemicals
for drugs like fentanyl and meth, but they are, sorry, not meth, with fentanyl.
What they're also doing is they're laundering the money for the cartels.
The DEA will tell you that the number one money launderers for the cartels today are the Chinese, and they're doing it through casinos, and they're doing it through Marijuana grows in states where marijuana is legal.
They're doing it through technology, these encrypted apps that they're using on their phones.
And they've made themselves, you know, in some ways, absolutely indispensable and integral to the Mexican cartels.
It doesn't mean they can't, you know, break up that relationship.
But what we're not talking about is that when U.S.
pharmaceutical companies put all their manufacturing capability in the hands of the Chinese, they got The formulas for every pharmaceutical that the U.S.
produces.
That's what the Chinese got.
And they took one.
They took the one for a drug called fentanyl, which was invented by a Belgian chemist and has been used in hospitals, is still used in hospitals and surgery because it's a very effective painkiller with very few side effects.
But what did the Chinese do?
In 2012, they began introducing that as a street drug in America.
DEA agents, Rudy, have told me Over and over again, they didn't know what it was.
They'd never seen it before.
They had to have it tested.
So for people who think that, well, you know, these things have always been around.
No, fentanyl is a new drug.
No, no, no, absolutely not.
I never dealt with it.
I mean, I did a thousand narcotics cases and never dealt with it.
And you know what, Rudy?
You know what's different?
The narcotics cases you were dealing with.
Poppies have to be grown, right?
Yes.
Heroin.
These things have to be harvested.
Marijuana, not fentanyl.
It's made in a lab and they're making so much of it that DEA has never seen quantities that you're talking about right now.
It's unprecedented in the history of any country on earth.
No one has ever had a drug this powerful in this quantity at this, you know, at this low price because fentanyl is cheap.
It's so cheap, Rudy, that they're giving it away to create a demand in cities and towns where there isn't one.
And it's so addictive that they're mixing it into other narcotics.
Why are overdose deaths from meth up 35% in the last 15 years?
Because of fentanyl, right?
Because it's mixed with fentanyl.
And the other thing that I'm just shocked that journalists are not talking about is that with the opioid crisis, access to prescription opioids was drastically reduced when the United States government put in all those controls.
But what did you see happen to addiction levels?
Did they go down?
They didn't go down.
Almost.
The collateral consequence was worse than the problem, in a way.
But it wasn't a consequence.
What it was, was a strategic move by the Chinese and the cartels.
What did they do?
They started producing what?
Who are the kings of counterfeit, Rudy?
The Chinese.
So what are they doing?
The Chinese are so strategic.
That when the Trump administration complained to them about all the overdose deaths from fentanyl, they made a big show of banning fentanyl, right?
Because they were already taking the precursor chemicals.
So if pseudoephedrine, right?
The ephedrine is the precursor chemical.
It's actually the thing that makes the narcotic a narcotic.
And it is made in China, and it is shipped as a chemical to Mexico, where Chinese chemists have come to They've come to Mexico.
DEA have gone into labs and found Chinese chemists training Mexican chemists and pharmacists into how to make these narcotics.
And they're making them in labs all across Mexico.
And what are they sending?
They're sending counterfeit pill presses.
They're sending the color dyes.
And when kids today are buying what they think is Adderall because they want to stay up for their exams, or they're buying a Xanax because they're being bullied
at school or they're nervous or, you know, they need a safe space or whatever it is,
they're traumatized and they want, you know, something for their nerves.
They're not buying the drug they think they're buying.
What they're buying is baby formula mixed with fentanyl.
And the way they mix it, Rudy, you hear about something called hot pills.
Yeah, sure.
Well, yeah, you know, a hot pill is, they put this stuff, whatever it happens to be,
baby powder, baby formula, anything, they put it in a blender or in some kind of machine
and they mix it up with the fentanyl and they have no idea what the distribution is.
So you could get a pill that's just baby formula and doesn't do anything.
So what do these kids do?
Look in Arizona at the number of teenagers who are dying from overdose deaths.
There is a police captain in Arizona, the head of the DEA, Sherry, down there told me a story about it.
She was in vice in Arizona.
in Phoenix for many years.
And so one of her fellow cops that she was still close to, he called her and he told her that his daughter was at a party the night before, three girls with her.
These four girls, they took one pill each, four hot pills, four of them died.
And this is a girl who grew up in a home.
Her father was a counter narcotics policeman all his career.
And she knew all about it.
She took one pill and she died.
So before we conclude, Lara, I need you to tell me so people get it.
This is a multifaceted business, international.
They're in many things, the cartels as a group.
Yes, many things.
So what we've explained to people is there are five or six or seven main ones, a lot of subsidiaries.
The main ones are highly sophisticated.
They're all in business with China.
It's almost like the French connection, right?
China sends over the precursors now.
They make it and they supply it.
What businesses are they in, in addition to drugs, illegal?
We know there are illegal drugs.
What other businesses are they in?
Well, if you go to Monterey and you go and stay in one of those beautiful hotels, they're laundering their money through the hotels.
If you drive in the Rio Grande Valley, You'd be surprised for a place that's so poor, where people live, so many people live below the poverty line.
How come there are all these big car dealerships, right?
They're into car dealerships, real estate.
They are buying up property across the United States at a staggering pace, which is something the Chinese are doing as well, by the way.
And also the human smuggling now is worth so much money to them, Rudy.
And of course, laundering the money is the big thing, right?
So you want to go into as many legitimate businesses as you can.
So import export.
That's an old favorite.
You just have to look at the Port of Laredo.
You know what's coming in on those trucks and what's going out on those trucks.
It's sort of the perfect vehicle for it.
And then of course that you know they have extraordinary amount of ways to skim off the surface.
And don't forget It's time to take a short break.
You ask Customs and Border Protection how many counterfeit masks have been seized
at the border during the pandemic.
Ask them how many hand sanitizers, counterfeit hand sanitizers that have come over,
some of them with dangerous chemicals in them, by the way, that have come from China
that are going in these shipping containers.
It's time to take a short break.
We'll be right back.
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Thank you for coming back to this very, very fascinating interview with Lara Logan.
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Thank you for coming back to this very, very fascinating interview with Lara Logan.
So what do you see happening?
What will it be like a year from now and two years from now?
Is there anything being done to reduce their power or are there things being done that's going to, in essence, expand their power?
Well, I mean, did you know that Mexico has practically ended cooperation with U.S.
law enforcement and has stripped U.S.
law enforcement of diplomatic And so what does that tell you?
The Biden administration's entire focus is on immigration and migrant care.
All of the money is going towards that.
They are shutting down security patrols.
which is terrible.
And so what does that tell you?
The Biden administration's entire focus is on immigration and migrant care.
All of the money is going towards that.
They are shutting down security patrols.
They're taking agents off security patrols, and they're putting them on migrant care.
They've created a position.
Actually, it was started before the Biden administration, under the Trump administration, where border patrol agents have a job now where you don't go out and be an agent on the line, and you don't track sign, and you don't do the security job.
All you do is processing.
So they are pouring resources into the processing and the migrant care aspect of the border, and they are taking resources away from border security.
I mean, look at what's happened with the wall.
Look at what's happening with the path to citizenship.
As long as you can claim that you were in this country before January 20th, you are eligible to apply, you know, for the path to citizenship.
And Rudy, don't forget that the Biden administration said they were going to put a pause, a 100-day pause on deportations, right?
That was a campaign promise.
They enacted that, and Texas opposed it, and a Texas judge put a temporary hold on that.
But what happens on the border when that hold is lifted?
I mean, I'll tell you what's happening.
Here's another thing that you can report that no one has reported yet.
Most of the reporters are looking at the border and they're looking immediately beyond the border, right?
Into Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador.
Who's looking beyond that into Colombia and Panama and Brazil?
If you looked at the Darien Gap right now, which is that, you know, you have to come through the Darien Gap.
As you head towards the United States, there are people pouring out of Brazil and other countries who have said on the record, they've said it to journalists, they've said it to others, they've said it to people living there.
This is our moment.
This is our chance to get to the United States.
Biden is going to let us in.
That's the word that has gone out.
There are people coming.
It's funny that you mentioned Cuba, because that is one of the biggest groups that is heading for this country right now.
And you know what the associated things are that have typically gone along with Cuban migration.
Terrorism is one of the things that has gone along with that.
You know, state actors, spies, hackers, and so on.
And there are people coming from Somalia, coming from Yemen, coming from Haiti, coming from many African countries.
And that's not even being talked about.
That's not even being seen because these caravans that are so massive still, where there's a huge flow of people, they're breaking up when they get to Guatemala and Mexico, and they're coming across in much smaller groups, and they're being shipped out as quickly as possible.
There's no access to the processing centers.
Many of them are being processed right there in the field, released almost instantly on their own recognizance after biometrics are taken and fingerprints, and they're going over to Health and Human Services, transported in buses with tinted windows, being shipped out to cities and towns across this country.
People don't know they're coming. They don't know who they are. You could say,
you know what the agents tell me? You could literally come across and say that you're
Jackie Chan. And what are you going to do? They're going to call the Chinese Communist Party and say,
do you have a criminal record for this person?
So if I get this correctly, the Biden administration, their policy is to increase
the number of what I would call illegal immigrants, they call them whatever they call them,
into the United States.
They've removed the word illegal, by the way, from the legislation.
They've actually removed it.
Now they're non-citizens.
So I'm a non-citizen because I'm in the process, right?
I'm a green card holder.
So now I'm in the same category as someone who crosses the border illegally.
But of course you are breaking the law.
They just ignore that.
Their goal is to get as many of them here as possible.
The Biden administration has instructed ICE that they do not have the power or the authority to implement the laws that are on the books.
The border patrol agents have been told that if they get people, they apprehend people who have a criminal record from entering the country illegally to disregard their criminal record.
It doesn't matter anymore.
So that's what I mean when I say they've bypassed the legal immigration system and they have decriminalized crossing the border without telling the country that that's what they're doing.
They've done that without being honest about it.
You know, for me, it isn't up to me to decide what's the right policy, what's the wrong policy.
My job is to figure out what is really happening, what is the truth.
And, you know, Rudy, I have a friend, you may even have met him, from Afghanistan.
He came here legally.
And one of the things I said to him when he was struggling with this decision, he has four daughters and a son.
And I said to him, Ahmed Shah, this will be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life.
You cannot imagine what you're about to go through.
And you don't know how long it's going to be before you hold your children again.
So you have to be certain.
You know, you have to be absolutely certain about what it is you are doing.
He was being threatened by the Taliban for the work that he did for us at 60 Minutes.
And you know what, Ruby?
I had no idea when I said that how terrible it would be.
Because this year, his youngest daughter turned six.
And she was six months old when he left.
Six months old.
And this man talks to his family every single day.
He doesn't go out and party.
He's never had a girlfriend.
He talks to his wife and children five, six, sometimes 15, 20 times a day.
It's like torture.
It is torture.
He is not, he is a real father who has done everything right.
And, um, I mean, his youngest is six months old, but I mean, his son has grown up without him.
His wife, his, his father died just before he left.
You know, and there are so many people who have made sacrifices like that.
Yes.
He's separated from his family, but we never hear about people who have been legally separated.
And one other thing I want to tell you, Rudy, what happens to you if you get arrested
and you have your children with you at the time? What happens?
I'm put in jail.
I'm put in jail.
And they either have to be taken care of by someone else, or they're put into child care.
It happens all the time.
I mean, we make arrests in New York, and it's a single parent.
Let's say the charge is rape or something.
We're not going to let them back.
So the children have to be taken away from the parent.
The parent caused that by the crime the parent committed.
So U.S.
citizens in the United States of America today are separated from their families if they commit a crime.
Every time you see someone arrested.
And it's traumatic.
They're being separated from their family.
And it's traumatic, right?
It's painful and traumatic.
Right, but what are you going to do?
Are you going to leave the murderer there?
So the kids can be taken care of and people can be murdered?
I mean, it's absurd.
Of course you have to do it.
But I need you to focus on two things because we're running out of time.
One, since January, roughly since Biden's come in, about how many illegal immigrants, or whatever you want to call them, have gotten into the United States?
And I'm asking you that question because All or most of them haven't been tested for COVID, and we closed down cities to protect us from that, yet it looks like we've let thousands and thousands and thousands of people come in who some large percentage of probably have the disease.
So, Rudy, in the Rio Grande Valley, in one sector, in one week, They had, last week, over 10,000 come through there.
And now, I don't know how many of those were released into the United States.
I don't know those numbers offhand because it's broken down into categories.
And there's unaccompanied minors, they're all let in.
If you look at the number of unaccompanied minors, that's thousands and thousands.
If you know, I mean, February was over 102,000 people entered the United States illegally, right?
I mean, that's just in apprehensions.
Then you add 26,000 in gotaways.
And then you factor in all the people that were turned back.
And then you factor in all the people that were not even seen or picked up on any of the surveillance.
And you had something close to that number.
I think January was 78,000, something like that.
And so when you add that together, you're already talking hundreds of thousands.
But something very interesting is happening here.
And I would love to know your opinion on this because The Biden administration, you know, signed a number of executive orders.
And one of those executive orders was to rescind Trump's emergency declaration, crisis declaration for the border, which as you know, ends federal assistance to the border states.
So that means pulling back the DOD assets that were sent there.
under the original Trump executive order.
It means removing the National Guard helicopters, removing the National Guard soldiers.
It means ending the federal funding that was paying for the overtime of local law enforcement, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, Rudy, that hasn't happened.
They're still there.
And the agents keep asking, and DOD press office, they're saying, no, they're not going anywhere.
Why aren't they going anywhere?
And Title 42 ended at 1400 on the February 21st.
But Border Patrol is still turning back adults under Title 42.
They're still sending them back.
So that's why I don't know the exact number of how many people have been released into the U.S.
It's thousands and thousands.
There's no question about that.
But what is the Biden administration's position on Title 42?
And I raise this because, of course, the Trump administration was accused of using The pandemic as an excuse and as a front for a cruel and heartless immigration policy.
Never mind that Mexico is a COVID hotspot, you know, and so on.
And so does the Biden administration, have they renewed and extended Title 42 and they just don't want their base to know about it?
Or is something else going on?
I mean, it's very odd and there's no answers for it and it's frustrating.
These questions are not being asked more because reporters are down there.
What are you doing down there?
It's a major contradiction.
He makes the order.
The order is not being carried out.
They know the order is not being carried out because it's brought to their attention.
So I think there are a couple of reasons for it.
I think, number one, there is probably dispute within his own administration as to the wisdom of this, because it really is a very dangerous thing to do to withdraw all those people.
Well, is it a legal order?
Is it a legal order?
I don't know.
It probably is.
He probably can do that.
A lot of those executive orders were not, but that one is pretty much within his executive power, and he's just canceling an executive order from another president.
The real question is, why isn't it being implemented?
Are they just disregarding him?
I don't think so.
I think they also may realize the impracticality of it.
They also may realize if it happens all at once, they're going to be dealing with numbers that are staggering.
The real question is, where are they going to be five months from now?
Well, when people are wearing T-shirts that say, Biden, please let me in, and they're all clean and they're brand new, who's paying for those?
Somebody on this side who, I mean, we escaped the real big elephant in the room, which I'll ask you about.
A lot of this is happening because the Democrat Party wants more voters.
Oh, yeah.
There's no doubt about it.
I mean, they want to flood these states like Texas, which they now consider to be maybe a swing state.
They want to flood them.
Plus, when you consider what they're doing with voting, where illegals basically can vote without anybody questioning it.
This is also a political strategy, similar to H.R.1 and other things, where they're trying to become not just the majority party, but the permanent party.
You know, a one party, one party state, right?
One party institutions, one party state.
You know, it's interesting, Rudy, because everyone talks about the voting part of it, right?
But they forget about the other parts of it, which are, you know, for all federal funds and assistance programs.
The higher the population, the more of the federal pie you're getting, right?
And also, the more members of Congress you get.
So you're ensuring that Congress will never go the other way again when you look at it like that.
And one other very significant aspect of this, look at the state of California.
What is being eviscerated and wiped out in California today?
It's the middle class.
Middle class people in California, Mexican Americans, many of them who are first and second generation, they cannot afford to live there anymore.
And it's always struck me as very odd that the Democratic leadership in California isn't worried about that.
Well, why?
You know, when I spent time reporting there, I realized some of the reasons.
Number one, if you eviscerate the middle class, that is the ground in which socialism really takes root.
Because it's the... When you take away the hope of people in one class to move upwards, right?
That has to be eviscerated, really, in order for a socialist kind of mentality and welfare state to exist.
So what California is really becoming, is the state, it has the highest number of billionaires of
any state in the country, and it has the highest number of people living below the
poverty line. So you have the super wealthy and the slave class, the indentured servants who
serve them. A real problem that can lead to very, very violent results when you have the
richest and the poorest. Look at San Francisco Who wants to move to San Francisco?
Nobody's moving to San Francisco, okay?
And that was one of the most beautiful places in this entire country.
Well, Lara, we could go on for another five hours.
Your wealth of information, basically because of the hard work you do and the incredible skill that you have in getting people to give you information.
I can't tell you how much I admire both your skill and your courage.
And I thank you very, very much because hopefully my conception is that we have to educate the American people.
They must know a lot more about this.
And nobody's done more of that than you have.
So thank you very much for being with us, Lara.
And you.
You've taken, you know, you've taken your hits and you've stayed consistent and steadfast.
And I have a lot of respect for you.
You know that.
Thank you.
We'll be talking very soon.
And you take care of yourself.
Be careful, my dear.
God bless you.
You too.
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