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July 3, 2020 - Rudy Giuliani
34:31
Rudy Giuliani Interviews White House Chief of Staff to President Trump, Mark Meadows | Ep. 50
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It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
It was Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason, we're able to talk to each other, we're able to listen to each other, and we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
We're here with the Chief of Staff to the President of the United States, Mark Meadows.
Just a little while ago, member of Congress and Probably one of the most important for the defense of the President and many other things.
So it's a real honor for me to be with him and to get a chance to ask him a few questions.
Mayor, it's always great to be with you.
Thanks for always leading the charge.
So it's good to be with you.
And thank you for taking on this responsibility at a very difficult time.
You sure didn't get a honeymoon when you came in.
No, I came in, you know, we had a global pandemic.
We have economic meltdown.
You name it, we've had it.
But the president's doing well and he's continuing to fight.
And as you know, he's a real fighter and he's not going to give up.
I think when it gets worse, he gets better.
He does.
I shouldn't say that, but I think that's the case.
Well, you know, he's a counter puncher, but he's also a puncher.
Thank God we have somebody like that.
Well, we've got to have that, because what happens, the forgotten man and woman, you know it all too well, the forgotten man and woman, the people that are tuning in right now, they're saying, well, what about me?
How is my voice heard in Washington, D.C.?
And I can tell you in one place it's heard, it's in an Oval Office not too far from here.
All the decisions are made that way.
Yeah, you're exactly right.
So what about this new...
Russia hoaxed, too.
Seems like the same cast of characters.
You got a couple of felons who are willing to leak very sensitive, confidential information that seems to be disputed at a minimum.
And then you got the New York Times willing to take the fruits of a felony and publish it.
All of a sudden, any further inquiry is blown.
Possibly sources, methods, people's lives.
They don't give a damn.
As long as they can somehow hurt President Trump.
Yeah.
Well, we know that a crime was perpetrated.
It's now up to us to make sure that we find out who that is.
But I think you're right.
It's Russia 2.0 or 3.0.
And there will be more because what happens is those who want to fight against the president know that there's a New York Times reporter that's all too willing to allow them to tell
only a little bit of the story.
And this one is even worse than anything
we could ever imagine because not only does it
put sources and methods at risk,
but in terms of going after the Russians,
if you wanted to go after them, which we
have been looking at this very...
I can see that.
But now, I mean, you know, I'm sure there were paper shredders and all kinds of stuff.
If indeed there was something, which you mentioned it, just you teased it just a little bit there.
There really wasn't anything.
We don't have any any intelligence that would support the reporting that the New York Times put out.
They put out one part of it, but it was like putting out one chapter in a book.
They forgot the conclusion and they forgot the final chapter.
So if you were these deep state felons, or the Times, and you were really interested in finding out, did the Russians or someone else do this, you would not leak the information.
No, you wouldn't leak it.
You'd wait and let it get investigated fully and then find out.
You're right.
But who cares about the truth?
Well, and that's the problem is whoever leaked this either was intentionally trying to harm the president, which we see off too often, or they were not happy with the president's policies.
So there's those two lines of thinking.
And one of those policies is it's time to get out of Afghanistan.
It's time to end endless wars.
This president has been very vocal, as you know, on that.
Sure.
Explain that all to the American people when he got elected.
That was his intention.
Well, that's why he got elected.
Of course.
Because he explained it.
And when you see that, when you see where this president is coming from on that, the vast majority of Americans support that.
They don't even understand why we're in Afghanistan.
And they figure that after we've been there more than a decade and we haven't accomplished our mission, why are we continuing to be there?
But just a few blocks from here, in a five-sided building known as the Pentagon.
Right.
There's a whole lot of people that make a lot of money based on the fact that we need to have these endless wars.
And this president said enough is enough.
It's the American taxpayer dollar.
It's time to come home.
And a few of our misguided Republicans who want to go to war every other day are on that side, too, which is really a shame.
Well, they are, but I think they also bit on a New York Times story that, quite frankly, they didn't do their due diligence.
So some of these people that came in, I've done a briefing with a few of them and shared the other side of the story, and then all of a sudden they're saying, They agree with you.
You know, whoever leaked this, one, it was a crime.
They shouldn't have done it.
But the other is, is they didn't even leak the whole story.
But Mark, you'll understand this better than most because of all your experience in Congress.
Why is it that the Democrats constantly stay together?
They can have anti-semitic statements of the worst kind.
They can have destruction of statues of Lincoln and Grant.
Say nothing.
They can have those three crazy people, AOC and her friend, say the craziest things.
End airplanes.
And they keep their mouths shut.
Yeah.
If there's one little thing that isn't even resolved yet, and there's a question, we've
got a bunch of Republicans that run away.
I mean, on this one, I have to tell you, Marco Rubio gave the greatest statement of all.
He basically said this is way too early for anybody to be commenting.
The real story here is somebody committed a serious crime.
Well, and Senator Rubio is exactly right.
Let me just tell you, he's seen what I've had the privilege of seeing and what others have seen.
And you know what?
This is not his first or second rodeo.
He's on the Intel Committee.
He's the chairman of the Intel Committee.
And he knows how dangerous this kind of thing is.
And so I applaud Senator Rubio for not only speaking out, but for calling it what it is, a crime.
Well, let's hope we find the people who did it finally and get some kind of punishment that deters it.
Well, we need to make sure that people go to jail.
We've found a few leakers.
They're no longer working for the federal government, but this one is more serious than that.
Go to jail!
See, in New York, nobody goes to jail anymore.
Anybody who goes to jail, the mayor and the governor release them.
Yeah, they're just released to an autonomous zone.
Unless they're a Republican.
Yeah, well, and therein is the problem, is we need to have equal justice under the law.
Boy, the double standard.
There's a double standard.
You know it.
Yeah.
You know it fully.
And this president knows it.
You know it.
The American people know it.
They see the two standards.
They see the fact that there's still over 30,000 emails that we never did fine, and somehow that that was justified.
You know, it's just...
Listen, what I will say is this.
We're determined to get to the bottom of it.
Good.
We do know that referring them for criminal prosecution is something that's already happened, and they're serious about the investigation.
Good.
Secretary Esper's looking at it, DOJ's looking at it, and others.
I think this would be a convenient time to take a short break.
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Welcome back to our interview with the Chief of Staff to the President of the United States,
Mark Meadows.
Now, I've got to ask you about the following.
We have a few places, some places where COVID-19, there are more people that are getting it, some places where it's gone down.
But the fact is, it's very different than before.
Right.
We now have experience with it.
We know it only affects a certain portion of the population.
That's right.
Another portion of the population virtually is safe and free of it.
Right.
Number two, we now have some medicines that have been 90, 95% effective in dealing with it.
Right.
Why is Dr. Fauci scaring us so much?
You know, Dr. Fauci, some call him Dr. Gloom.
And yet, here's the thing is, they're paid to show a worst case scenario to hopefully get everybody where they're on alert.
We're past the I'm on alert stage.
Here's what we do know.
We do know that if you're under 80 years of age, the chances of dying from COVID-19, or what I call the China virus, Please.
Thank you.
The chances of you dying from the China virus is really slim, unless you have three comorbidities.
So it means you've got to be diabetic, overweight, hypertension, a number of things.
And even with that, as we work down young people, There are greater chances of dying from other things than the China virus.
And so getting that message out, and yet when we're in this pandemic and this catastrophic time, it's important that we deal with the facts and not just with fear.
And the American people are starting to understand that, but yet each and every day we have on TV saying, Worry, worry, worry.
Obviously, New York was harder hit as a city.
But now it's virtually totally under control, but we're still shut down to a large extent.
Well, it is.
I think they like to have us shut down.
Here's what we need to open up.
We need to open up the schools and universities.
Let me just tell you, that population there is at Such a minimal risk compared to other things, compared to death by the flu, compared to a number of other risks associated with it.
We need to open up the schools.
We need to open up businesses.
And at the end of the day, take our precautions, be safe, but our economy can't stand this.
And I can tell you that the president acted decisively to stop really Tens of thousands of deaths because he acted very quickly.
But he also acted very decisively in terms of the economy.
I can tell you, there were a few days in my first hundred days where I looked at the economic numbers and what was happening, and we had the chance to have a prolonged depression.
And now the news is certainly good news.
I think we're going to continue to see the economy Well, he sure did.
He did it magnificently before.
He's already gotten a head start in doing it now.
The numbers, his first group of numbers on employment were unbelievable.
You're right.
I mean, they were predicting, what was it, 8 million, 9 million?
Or was it a 2 million gain?
2.5 million gain?
It was a 10 million swing.
They're only wrong by 10 million.
But no apology.
Listen, I'm not Pollyanna enough to believe that there are not going to be rocky roads ahead.
But I can say this, that based on the numbers and the indicators I'm seeing, I'm very optimistic
that we're going to have a great third quarter leading to an outstanding fourth quarter
and an economy that gets back to be more prosperous than where we were before this happened.
Well, we need somebody fighting for it because the left wing...
There's no doubt in my mind, I don't know if you can say this, this is a campaign to defeat him.
They've used a pandemic as a campaign to defeat him.
They want to prolong the shutdown and do as much damage to the economy as possible.
Hard to believe that!
So let me put on my personal hat instead of my Chief of Staff hat, and I'm going to comment on that.
Because this is all political.
It's exactly what it is.
The Democrats are using this political narrative in trying to get Joe Biden in the Oval Office, who has done nothing but talk for 40 years.
The great thing is, I want him to run on his record for the last 40 years.
Why?
Because there's nothing there.
Are you sure he'll leave the basement and go to the Oval Office?
No, no, he hasn't.
I don't know.
They're going to have to work on him to get him out of that basement.
He came out the other day.
He looked awful.
He came out, but he had a teleprompter.
He stumbled a few times anyway.
Back to your point on politics.
There is such hatred for this president in this city, in Washington, D.C., that even some that should be allies of the president are not allies because they're seeing it as a grasp for power.
And what happens is they see that that power is being taken away from them and given to its rightful owner, which is we the people, which is the moms and dads and aunts and uncles and kids and grandkids on Main Street.
That's who should have the power.
This president knows that and he's willing to give it.
He's taking it right away from the elite, the people who have been profiting, the people who have the power.
They either want to make money or they want to feel important.
They certainly want to feel like they're more intelligent than everybody else.
All of us dummies.
Well, they'll remind us of that.
All of us dummies.
We're all really dumb.
And they're really smart.
Joe is really smart.
Because he was last in his law school class.
He plagiarized three times.
I know Joe for 35 years.
I considered him one of the dumbest people in the Senate.
And now, he's cognitively impaired.
I mean, he was stupid before, and now he's cognitively impaired.
Well, and what we see, though, the interesting thing is what we see is the machine around Joe Biden.
It's incredible!
Again, speaking from my personal capacity, the machine that we've got around is trying to make the American people believe something that, with their own eyes and with their own ears, they know is not the case!
And yet, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to do that.
It's the ultimate cynicism.
Yeah.
And really just not caring about the United States.
Yeah.
To run somebody that appears to be as cognitively impaired as he is.
Yeah.
No matter what party you are.
No, it's scary.
And I mean, and so whether it's where Joe Biden is today or where he was a decade ago or two decades ago or three decades ago, here's what we do know is he's a product of the swamp.
He's not, you know, if you could name one thing that Joe Biden has done in terms of legislatively a hallmark example, no one can do that.
I can name one.
What's that?
The 1994 criminal justice bill that he was significantly involved in with me and with Chuck Schumer that they've turned their back on.
Yeah, you're right.
And actually the people that the president had to get out of jail who were put there for soft crimes.
Of course, it's his legislation.
So what you're saying is we've got to go back 26 years to find an accomplishment for Joe Biden.
But he's now disavowed it.
You're right.
He's gone the other way.
And here's the interesting thing.
As America's mayor, and as someone who is so pro-law enforcement as you are, and as the president is, to see Joe Biden turn his back on law enforcement.
Regardless of party affiliation, he's turning his back on every law enforcement officer, man or woman across the nation.
And I just say shame on him.
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Thank you.
Welcome back to our interview with Mark Meadows, Chief of Staff to the President of the United States.
Well, I have to tell you, I have to tell you, Chief, that in my city, which I know better than any other, it's just four weeks have destroyed 20 years of my hard work and Mike Bloomberg's hard work.
Yeah.
This progressive Democrat who had his honeymoon in Cuba, so you can figure out what he is, We've had several days where we had one shooting per hour, where our murder rate is up 58% after 20 years of decline.
Between Bloomberg and I, I took it down 60%.
He took it down another 15%, 75%.
He took it down another 15, 75%.
Right.
We took down overall crime 80%.
Right.
I didn't think it was possible to get back so fast.
Right.
But when you get rid of your most effective unit in the police department, the anti-crime,
got rid of them all.
They're the people who take the guns out of the city.
He's defunded the police department by a billion dollars, including the anti-terrorism unit that I began and Bloomberg and Kelly really built.
We're still the number one target in America.
He's done away with half of the anti-terrorism.
How could Mayor de Blasio and a progressive Democrat party do that in a place where 9-11 happened and all of us, you in particular, but me, a guy from North Carolina?
I know exactly where I was on that morning.
It's a disgrace.
And at that particular point, I was from North Carolina, but I was identifying with New Yorkers that I would never meet because we got to see it in real time there, and yet here we are going backwards?
I don't understand it.
And now we've got crimes all over the city.
Portions of the city that haven't had a shooting or a murder in 20 years have had several.
Holdups all over the city.
And it's getting worse and worse and worse.
Well, the mayor's on an apology tour.
That's what the mayor, the mayor's on an apology tour, but not an apology tour to those public servants that sacrificially give up their time and their lives.
You know, listen, they miss anniversaries.
They miss ball games.
They miss birthday parties to serve, serve the people of New York or any city across the country.
And yet we somehow have an apology tour and say that it is, it is wrong to serve in that capacity.
It's just, it's a sad day.
It's only the president, it seems to me, that has spoken out really strongly for the American way of life and American values that are now under attack.
Right.
Right.
and unjustified murder of Mr. Floyd.
Long ago, it changed from that.
Now, it very often turns violent.
And it always turns on hatred of the United States.
It does.
Either on our history, our heroes, our religions, our Constitution, our laws.
The United States is under attack and they're trying to engender hatred.
Why do you burn our flag if you don't hate us?
Why do you dishonor our national anthem?
Except you want to engender, the way Marxists do, hatred for the country so they can substitute socialism for it.
Well, it's interesting you say that, because it does have a Marxist and a socialist root.
And how do we know that?
Go talk to some Cuban-Americans in South Florida.
Go talk to some folks from Venezuela, where they see that socialism is not the answer.
You know, it starts with a great theme, and then you end up saying, are there enough rabbits here to feed our country?
I mean, it's gotten to a point, you ask those kind of people that have have really gone away and fled from Venezuela or Cuba.
And they know what America is all about and freedom.
And they're some of the most patriotic citizens that we have.
And yet here's what happens.
We try to change the course of history, redefine it and act like it doesn't matter.
And it does matter.
We have to understand that there's something unique about this country.
Something unique and special about how God has blessed this country, and we've got to stick with that.
God bless you, Mark, because that needs to be said.
And it seems to me, I'm probably wrong, but the only one saying it is President Trump.
It is!
The only one standing up for the American way of life.
Yeah.
How could you do more than Grant did?
is the president. I mean, they desecrate statues of Lincoln and Grant won the Civil War.
I mean, for goodness sakes, it's either they're ignorant of history or they're not ignorant of
history and they hate everything about America because it has to be one of the two. And many
times you're right, it's both. But if you look at this president, you know, one of his one of my
favorite pictures of him is when he comes out and he hugs the American flag. You know, the reason
And they hate that!
I love it!
He hugs the American flag, and he talks about America First, and you know what?
We should celebrate that, not be apologizing for that.
With the 4th of July coming up, John Well better be celebrating it.
You're right.
We better be celebrating the document written by Thomas Jefferson.
You're right.
You're exactly right.
And John Adams gave it to him because he said, if he writes it, it'll be immortal.
And it was immortal, and it gave us our guiding light.
He may have been an imperfect man, but he had dreams.
I got a newsflash.
Everyone is imperfect.
One man.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
But they all think they're... Oh, they do, especially in this town.
I mean, they think that they're so perfect that they're real easy to point at.
And we're deplorables.
Yeah, we're the deplorables.
The good thing is we may be deplorable, but we're definitely redeemable.
Well, Hillary thought that half of us were deplorable, and I think Biden thinks 15% of us are very bad.
Yeah, yeah, the 15%.
But he can't do percentages anymore.
Yeah, well, here's the thing is, he would have a hard time identifying that 15% if you put him on Main Street and said, well, which one's good, which one's bad?
He thinks that just because he happens to have somebody voting for him or running his campaign, They're good.
doesn't work out that way.
So Mark, I wanna ask you this.
I've been afraid to ask the president this.
Yeah.
Would you be willing, if push came to shove, that we go, the president go debate Biden in the basement?
Listen, I'm willing for the president to debate Biden anywhere.
I'll take odds on that on who's going to win.
So you think he's going to really debate?
Or are you going to try to weasel out of it?
I think they're going to try to weasel out of it.
Here's the thing is, is that Biden, if he needs a teleprompter to do a Q&A from a day or two ago, he's going to need a lot more preparation for debates.
But here's what I do know.
Let's put Joe Biden's record up against the President's record.
Forty years versus four years.
The President will take him to task on each and every option.
I'd love to debate every single day.
And when you see that, the choice is clear.
No, no, actually, I offered them six or seven debates.
I thought they were going to faint.
I love it.
That's when the sweat burns down on their brow.
I didn't even clear this one.
I said, how about we go three hours?
I love it.
Well, listen, you know the president.
He can take it.
You've got a lot of excess respirators.
Well, here's the other thing I would say, Mayor, is this.
There is no one who will work harder on behalf of the American people than this president.
You've seen it.
I've seen it.
He works through the night.
He works in the wee hours of the morning.
He's constantly reading stuff and giving me tasks.
I mean, to the point where he can come up with more ideas than I can implement in any given day.
And yet, the goal is always the same.
What do we do for the mom and dad, the single mom, the single dad, the kid on Main Street?
What do we do for them to make their life better?
And most of the people in this town, they want to know what Washington, D.C.
will do for them.
And the president has articulated he wants to be in Washington, D.C.
for what he can do for others.
And that's a big difference.
Well, I actually only work for one president, Ronald Reagan.
Yeah.
And I see numerous similarities between the two.
I do, too.
I do, too.
Two of them are, Ronald Reagan was always underestimated.
Yeah.
Everybody thought he was too dumb for the job.
Yeah.
I wrote a speech for him.
He rewrote the whole thing, and it was better written than all the reporters of the New York Times could write.
And just read his love letters to his wife, and you can see what a great writer he was.
This was a very intelligent man.
Same thing with President Trump.
Yeah.
This is a very shrewd, very intelligent man.
I agree.
And the second thing is, I haven't seen two presidents in my lifetime that love America
Yeah.
as much as the two of them.
I agree.
And are willing to express it.
Yeah.
You need to express it.
Yeah.
That's how you keep a country together.
Yeah.
Well, you know, you had the privilege of working for Ronald Reagan.
I had the privilege of working for Donald Trump.
I can tell you this, that Donald Trump takes things so personally and wants to make sure that good things are applauded when no one's paying attention.
He'll pick up the phone and he'll call somebody and say, hey, I just want to tell you, good job.
I want to tell you that you're right on this particular issue.
He does it every single day.
And if people understood how much he personally cares, he would win all 50 states.
So let me conclude with putting your political hat back on.
Yeah, yeah.
So how does he win the election?
In my humble view, America's at stake.
Just look at what's happening in our streets.
So again, again, putting my personal hat back on because I don't want to violate any law
in my humble view.
America's at stake.
It is not just look at what's happening in our streets.
Yeah.
Just look at what they're doing to our country, what they're doing to our history, our educational
system.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't even want to say what would be possible if he doesn't win.
So here's how he wins.
He doesn't talk about the major accomplishments of the last three and a half to four years, although there are many, and you don't talk about that.
It could be the greatest first term ever.
It is the greatest first term ever, without a doubt.
But you don't talk about what we've done.
Now you use that as a foundation of what you will do.
And what you do is you talk about bringing jobs back from China, because China is a real
threat.
You talk about that.
You talk about making sure that our communities are safe.
We wouldn't have thought that that was even important.
When you came in as mayor of New York, you had to address it.
Now it's a big issue.
No, but you have to make sure that they understand that we're not going to sit back and watch our statues be toppled.
We're not going to watch autonomous zones in the middle of businesses.
Because here's the problem is, When you do that, when you allow those rioters to go in, they're taking away the rights of business people and peaceful protesters at the same time.
Because what happens is they need to be held accountable.
And the last thing I think you see is a president who's willing to do bold things that no one else has ever done.
He will lower prescription drug prices.
He's already working on it.
He will do that before the November election.
You will see drug prices come down.
They've already stopped with the monumental increase, but you actually see them come down and you'll see him set out a bold agenda that people, in 2016, they said, well, gosh, if he could accomplish one or two things, you know, that would be, he's done, you know, he's done exponentially better than that.
Better than I thought.
I've been his friend for 29 years.
I thought he'd be a really good president.
I'm now starting to think he's one of our great ones and maybe our best.
He is not afraid to tackle what everybody else is afraid to tackle politically.
And that's the difference in him.
He's willing to take a political risk to do what he said he would do on the campaign trail and he'll do it again.
Well, Mark, I have to tell you, just as an American, it makes me feel really good that you're here, because I know all the things you did in Congress, and how loyal you were, not to the President, but to the law, and the Constitution, because you saw something terrible going on.
And you were strong enough to stand up, and some of your colleagues were, and some weren't.
Yeah.
You were a real hero.
Well, here's the thing is, when you stand up for the Constitution, and when you stand up for the forgotten man or woman, you know, it sides you with this President.
Yes, I can see that.
And when it sides you with this President, you're willing to get up, no matter the personal cost, you're willing to go out and fight again, and that's why in, you know, less than 125 days, this President will get re-elected, because of guys like you, And guys that are willing to truly fight the fight.
So my message, you know, to America, the people that are tuning in right now, is do not give up hope on the greatest experiment that has ever happened in loving this country and truly embracing the flag and being patriotic and knowing that you have a president who's willing to fight alongside you.
So that would be my message.
Happy Fourth of July.
Same to you.
Thanks so much.
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