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July 1, 2020 - Rudy Giuliani
32:49
Doctor Has 99.3% Survival Rate for COVID-19 Patients Urges America To Continue Reopening | Ep. 49
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It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
It was Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason, we're able to talk to each other, we're able to listen to each other, and we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani.
I'm back again with another episode of Rudy Giuliani's Common Sense.
And we have returning a guest who set off real sparks last time.
Might be one of our most watched episodes.
It created a whole new change.
and brought to America the knowledge of hydroxychloroquine and the, what the doctor calls,
the cocktail. Well, that was a month or two ago. It's been through a lot of controversy. It's been
through a lot of tests, including his own. We're going to go back and talk to him about that,
and we're going to talk about the situation we're in, and maybe we're going to talk about how about
we start having a little optimism about this, because we've accomplished a lot.
And I think Dr. Zev Zelenko can tell us about that with authority.
This is a doctor who actually treats patients.
Not one of these people sit in a little room.
The guy sees patients and he's cured probably more people than just about anyone that I know.
So there he is, Dr. Zev Zelenko.
I consider him One of the real heroes of the COVID wars.
And Zev, tell us about, shall we start like from now and the test that you just submitted and it's going to be published.
And so we put like an end to this nonsense about hydroxychloroquine for the benefit of people.
Mr. Mayor, thank you again for having me.
I think it's a wonderful opportunity to share some optimism.
Not some, a wonderful piece of information with the American public.
And I would like to reassure our country that we're going to get through this and there's no need for unnecessary anxiety.
So since the beginning of March, my team has seen over 2,200 patients of COVID-19 in the outpatient setting, not in the hospital, but in the primary care doctor's office.
And I developed an approach, actually been coined as a LENCO protocol.
And there's three important components to it, which is you have to identify the patients that are most at risk.
You have to initiate treatment within the first five days of symptoms.
And I use a three drug regimen of zinc, hydroxychloroquine, and azithromycin.
And it's very important to keep in mind that zinc is the virus killer and the hydroxychloroquine is the mechanism to deliver the zinc to the virus.
So think of zinc as the bullet and hydroxychloroquine as the gun and they need each other.
A gun without a bullet, a bullet without a gun is ineffective.
You need the combination of the two.
And azithromycin protects the person from getting secondary pneumonias and developing pulmonary complications.
If you apply the Zelenka protocol, I have a 99.7% survival rate.
Let me say that again.
Two out of 2200 patients unfortunately passed away.
But it's only two.
Two out of how many?
2,200.
99.7 survival rate, if used in the context I just mentioned, which is identify high-risk patients, treat early, within five days of symptoms, use a three-drug regimen that costs $20 and is completely safe.
I had no complications, no heart issues.
A few patients had a rash and diarrhea.
But besides that, there were no serious complications.
And just as significant, my data shows an 84% reduction in hospitalization when compared to patients in the same community that were not treated with this medicine.
So let me just frame this for you.
Out of 100,000 admissions, we could have prevented 84,000.
So these people that went into the hospital, they were not treated properly.
Correct.
That's what my data shows.
So, Zev, how do you get people to come to you or to a doctor within the first five days?
Because that's critical.
had you treated them, 84%, had you treated them with the Zelenko trio of medicines, right?
Correct. That's what my data shows.
So, Zev, how do you get people to come to you or to a doctor within the first five days?
Because that's critical. Now, it's critical with a lot of illnesses to get it early, but
does someone know enough about having it so they can get you in the first five days?
Well, the data shows that on average a patient comes between day four and five.
The doctor, simply because the first two days most people think it's a virus, it's a cold, it's going to get better.
When it doesn't get better on day three they call the doctor's office and usually they get an appointment in a day or two.
So they come on average, that's what the statistics are, between day four and five and that's okay because in this context the the viral load dynamics, in other words the amount of virus in the patient, stays relatively level or constant for the first five days.
It's around day six when it explodes like a wildfire and gets out of control.
So the key is to start within the first five days of treatment.
The problem is the testing takes too long.
It takes three days to get the results in most cases.
That brings us into day eight.
If you wait until day eight, The person is very, very sick at that point.
So the key is to start treatment when you clinically suspect that the patient may have it.
And the important thing there is to convince people that this is not a dangerous medication.
So you're not taking much of a risk in starting treatment with it.
You're taking a risk by not starting treatment.
No, but I mean, the way it's been framed, Washington Post.
Headline.
About a month ago.
You could die from it.
Sure, I remember.
It's a false narrative, as you know.
You have to ask yourself, why is a drug that's 65 years old?
Well, so they made lots of different arguments.
that's been used by millions of people, is currently being used by millions of people,
given to pregnant women, given to children, given to nursing women, it's all considered safe.
And now all of a sudden in the context of COVID-19 is this fear mongering about complications
while this drug is being used for other reasons and no one's saying anything there.
So they made lots of different arguments.
One of the arguments was that if you can combine hydroxychloroquine with erythromycin,
that's worse for the heart.
Is there anything to that?
The combination of the two makes it worse than either one alone?
So first of all, let's say that was true, which it isn't, you can use doxycycline.
Game over.
If you're concerned about the combination... I'm not!
I'm saying whoever's concerned about the combination, switch the antibiotic from azithromycin to doxycycline.
However, here's what the data shows.
I spoke to the top electrophysiologists in the country.
There's around 3,000 of them.
They queried their whole WhatsApp group, basically, and they asked, has there been any cardiac arrhythmias using the combination of these two drugs?
The answer was no, caveat, in the outpatient setting.
In the ICU setting, when the patients are very, very sick, they have seen that.
However, at that point, you should know COVID-19 causes cardiomyopathy.
Around 30% of patients who have COVID-19 will develop inflammation in their heart if it progresses.
So we don't really know what's causing the arrhythmias.
Is it the medication or is it the virus?
But one thing for sure, if you get rid of the virus early, there's been zero report, and using azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine, there's been zero reported incidence of arrhythmias in the outpatient setting.
So now, when you get beyond that five days, six days, Does it still have some utility, but just not as much?
It has a lot of utility, but then we have to be a little bit more aggressive.
I may even suggest the use of steroids and anticoagulation to prevent blood clots.
But that's done on a case-to-case basis.
Because what happens is COVID-19 causes blood clots, and that leads to strokes and pulmonary infarcts.
So once the viral load increases past a certain point, it makes the person's blood system form these dangerous clots.
So we have figured out that if we use anticoagulation blood thinning medication, it's been shown to reduce that from happening.
And also steroids are anti-inflammatory.
See, it's two diseases.
It's the infection, And then if it gets out of control, it's all the side effects of the infection.
So if we miss the boat, then we have to deal with the infection and the side effects.
Side effects, you have to take care of the inflammation using steroids sometimes and blood thinning medication and oxygen.
But the key is to stay out of the hospital.
Mr. Mayor, hospitals are dangerous and it's better to be out of them.
This would be a good time to take a short break.
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Thank you.
And back to our interview with Dr. Zev Zelenko.
I remember the first time I talked to you, I said, how do you measure success?
And you said to me, keeping them out of the hospital.
I said, what's ultimate success?
They don't die.
I said, not to die, not to end up on a respirator, and not to go to the hospital.
That's how I did it.
And that has turned out to be close to 100%.
The two that you lost, did they have comorbidities?
Yeah, one unfortunately had advanced cancer, leukemia, and the other was an elderly person who had come to my office.
He was already pretty sick, and unfortunately... So he wasn't in that first five-day category?
I think he actually was.
But it hit him right away?
Nothing in life is 100%.
We try to do the best we can under the circumstances and we make risk versus benefit analyses.
I can tell you there's nothing more risky than to have COVID-19 get out of control.
So now how widespread, conservatively, how widespread is the use of hydroxychloroquine in general and then hydroxychloroquine with the zinc and the erythromycin?
So unofficially, it's extremely widespread.
Most doctors I know are personally taking it for prophylaxis to protect themselves and their families.
Right.
We haven't talked about that, but there are a lot of people doing that.
There are many, many doctors that I can rattle off that are currently prescribing it to their patients.
No, I know when I first did the interview with you, I was pretty much first heard about it.
And then the president mentioned it, and then I started checking with doctors all around New York City.
I'd say 8 out of 10.
And this was when it was in most debate about it.
About 8 out of 10 were using it and were telling me the practicing doctors, not the Washington bureaucrats.
The practicing doctors were telling me, particularly when they started attacking it as dangerous, this is ridiculous.
People on lupus are asking for it.
Why would people on lupus be asking for it if it's dangerous?
They've been on it for 20 years.
Let me tell you what's really going on.
Please, I mean, because I suspect, we all suspect, but it doesn't make any sense, Zev.
It makes no sense at all.
The medicine's been around for 50 years.
Whatever side effects it has, we know and are manageable.
And then we're developing another medicine, but we're not going to know for a couple of years what side effects it really has.
It takes a while to find out about a medicine.
Why are they trying to step all over one and elevate the other that wasn't even ready?
The drug that you're referring to that's being elevated now, that HHS, the Health and Human Services, just awarded a billion dollar contract to, it's called Remdesivir.
Correct.
Made by Gilead Pharmaceuticals.
And I'll be the first person to tell you it's a pretty good drug.
However, it's used in a certain context.
It's been shown, are you ready?
To reduce the number of days of hospitalization from 15 days to 11 or 10 days.
In other words, it's IV and it's utilities only in the hospital setting to reduce the number of days that the patient is in the hospital.
And it costs $3,200 per patient.
For the whole treatment?
Yeah.
And what would the hydroxy thing for the whole treatment be?
It costs $3,200 for the whole treatment?
Yes.
Okay.
And then what about hydroxy?
What does that cost?
The trio?
Less than $20.
For the whole thing?
For five days?
Correct.
For five days?
The whole treatment, yeah.
Do you ever have to go beyond the five days?
Sometimes, yeah.
Around 5%.
But that's why follow-up is important.
And you have to keep close tabs on the patient.
And if they don't get better quickly enough or fully, then you extend it a little bit.
In the two cases that you very kindly helped me with, two very good friends of mine, One of them had a real serious problem in that he had a collapsed lung.
Yes.
And he was, he had some pretty strong symptoms and his doctor told him, gave him an appointment for two days later to take the test.
He would have been out of your, out of your five days right away, just by the doctor saying, yeah, I'll see you in two days.
We'll take the test.
He called me luckily on a Sunday night, told me, And I got you, you put him on hydroxy, and the rest of it, he's better in three days.
Three days!
Thank God.
I thought it would at least be, because he does have a serious underlying lung problem, I thought it would be a long one, but I think probably what you did is you prevented it from getting to the lung, so the lung was never implicated.
Most likely.
You know, it's like calling the fire department, saying, I have a fire, and they say, I'll come to you in two days.
And the second one was a former detective, and he had a pretty serious case.
But I don't know if he had any other problems.
And same situation with him.
You gave it to him, and it was about a two or three day period.
So I want to reassure the American people.
Listen, we have a very effective approach in treating COVID-19.
There's no reason to worry, but we need access to this medication.
We can reopen the economy, in my opinion, immediately because we have such an effective medication.
The key here is political will.
And the opposition to it.
We know some of it came about with this insidious anti-Trump, anything Trump is for.
You know, all the Democrats wanted a wall.
Trump wants a wall.
They don't want a wall.
Okay, that's politics.
But here we're talking about life and death.
So Trump, I think he mentioned both medicines when he mentioned hydroxychloroquine.
He mentioned this as a possible lifesaver.
Well, turns out he was right.
And because they want to make him wrong, I think some of it comes about for that reason.
But I also suspect some of it comes about because of the price difference between the two.
Do you want to say anything about that?
It's better to stay out of the hospital than to wait and get it to the hospital and then need remdesivir.
In other words, everything has its right place.
And I want to say that human life is beyond price tags.
Life is, uh, is divine.
It's precious and we need to respect its sanctity.
And as you know, natural law is based on the sanctity of human life.
So I think it's immoral.
I think it's wrong.
I think it's putting money before the well-being of our country.
And I think that we need to push prevention and early treatment.
And if, God forbid, the patient ends up in the hospital, we can use remdesivir in that context.
And what's the effect?
Just to clarify, it reduces from 15 to 11 days.
Does that mean it saves you?
The average number of, it may, it may.
But I mean, what percentage?
I'm not sure about that.
It's not 100%.
No, of course not.
No.
Well, anyone in the hospital, the survival rates are much lower.
You know, if someone's in, for example, someone ends up on a respirator, they have a likelihood of dying of 70%, 7-0, 70%.
Doesn't matter what you're treating with.
Exactly, yeah.
At that point, right.
So the best is to stay off a respirator.
Right.
And if you end up in the hospital, you can use remdesivir, but the key is stay out of the hospital.
Well, then you got to take the hydroxy cocktail, the Zelenko cocktail, and the zinc, and we'll keep you out of the hospital, right?
Yeah, it's the common stuff we can do.
We'll be back with you in a few minutes.
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And now we continue our very interesting interview with Dr. Zev Zelenko.
Now tell me about the, you gave us the results of the study, but it's going to be published, right?
Yeah, it's been submitted for peer review.
We're waiting for it to go through that process.
And hopefully, even before that, we'll make it available for public download.
Yeah, it pretty much follows the statistics you gave us, right?
That's exactly the statistics.
But you're still treating people.
Well, fortunately, in my community, the number of new cases has gone down drastically.
So I'm still dealing with the patients who had the complications, who ended up in the hospital, who they've developed permanent lung damage, and now we have to manage that.
But the key is to prevent that from happening in the future.
Now, as we open all over the country, and now we've had this little spike, this spike, how do you regard this spike when, yes, there's spike in new cases, but the mortality rate, fatality rate has dropped?
Pretty significantly.
It's hard to measure.
So how do you view what we're going through right now?
And there's almost—it seems like there are some people pushing to push us all back inside again.
No, I think the right thing is to reintegrate into society, but we need to have the resources available to manage those patients that get sick, because we can't hide in our apartments, in our houses forever, okay?
The only way to become immune to this virus is to get it and overcome it.
Now, most people will do that with no problem.
There is a subset of patients that will have trouble.
We need to have that medication available in every pharmacy and every doctor in this country has to be
taught and reassured that they can use this medication without retribution.
First thing I want to do is assure people that your study is backed up by numerous studies from
France, Italy, Spain, China, NYU, other places in the U.S.
and I mean, some of these studies are
Just so clear.
And I'm not a doctor.
And then I read one here.
This is 91.6%.
Well, you know, you were 99, 91.6%.
Association of American Physicians.
I've got another one, the earlier one by Dr. Rouault, who's considered the premier doctor in France, right?
One of the premier doctors in France.
He did two clinical trials.
And he's got a pretty close to a 90 percent, 80 patients, 78 recovered, one died, one went to intensive care.
And we've got numerous ones like this, and all throughout that, these people in the Washington Post, and the Washington Post was the worst, and those silly television stations, CNN, they would go on and tell people they're going to die.
What is CNN?
I don't know what that is.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
The Communist News Network.
So I want to congratulate you for sticking in there and telling the American people the truth that there's a medication that can cure it to the extent that you can cure anything.
You're always going to have a few people it doesn't work with or it's too late.
But the other thing you mentioned was a prophylactic.
Yes.
As we re-enter now, and we have this surge in certain places, not in other places, should people there take this as a prophylactic if they're in the high-risk category?
Yes, I think they should, but that needs to be done under the consultation of their doctor on a case-by-case basis.
I would say everyone in the nursing home should be taking it, and anyone who's a first-line responder, doctors, nurses, police, military, I think everyone who has a vital role in the government or society must be on it because we need to keep the society functioning.
Well, we know the president took it for about 10 days.
Yeah, he got a letter from a certain doctor somewhere by Westchester about telling him about how it works.
Well, we're not going to say how, but he took it for about 10 days really just to demonstrate that it doesn't kill you.
Now, do you have to take it once as a prophylactic or do you have to keep taking it while you're exposed?
I would tell you, you need to take it indefinitely, but it's only once a week.
Oh, you do it the way you take it when it's dealing with malaria?
Because we don't have an effective vaccine, and it's not clear when we will, if someone's very high risk, I would tell them to continue this prophylaxis until we develop another way of becoming immune to it.
Well, I mean, so I think that's very, very important advice for people in the high-risk category and people in places where there seems to be an increase in the disease.
You would not suggest it, though, for anybody, for any young person who doesn't have any comorbidities.
I mean, they're virtually free of really any possibility of death.
I mean, very small percentage, right?
You see, probably not.
I wouldn't recommend it because I want them to get it and overcome it and then become essentially protected from it.
So, schools should never have been closed had this been used?
Initially, they probably should have been closed because we didn't know much about the virus.
I meant now.
If you had to go... Suppose we had a repeat.
How would you handle it?
I would handle it initially the same way, but then when the information became available, I would have made adjustments very quickly to correspond to the information available.
So once we learned how effective the treatment is, it would have made sense to reopen the world much quicker.
And at this point, we can reopen it, keep it open, and deal with any recurrence of this by treatment, by effective treatment, prevention and treatment.
Right now, more people are dying from death by politics than death from COVID.
One last question, doctor.
As a doctor who has to deal with all forms of illness, did it ever make any sense to focus on COVID-19 as the only way somebody could die?
I mean, we closed down hospitals and we didn't let people Come in for the usual heart exam, for cancer treatment.
Some of those people have to have died.
I know personally many people that... I mean, we killed those people.
Yes, we did.
And not only that, but we've also abused a lot of children and wives.
Emergency room doctors have told me that they've seen a tremendous spike in child abuse and spousal abuse.
Well, we have, unfortunately, I know from being mayor and a prosecutor, we have a problem of domestic violence to start with.
And the minute you lock people up, particularly if they're a little unhinged for 30 days or 40 days, it's going to spread like a virus.
Hopefully we'll have more wisdom next time as we face it, and particularly because of you, Doctor.
It's because of God, and I can tell the President that we have a very effective, safe solution to this, and I think we need to move ahead.
Well, we're gonna get that message out.
You know that.
And all because of you.
Thank you, Doctor.
And go back to your patients and keep saving lives.
You're a wonderful man.
I'm so proud to know you.
Thank you, Doctor.
God bless you.
Bye-bye.
That was a very, very uplifting interview with Dr. Zelenko about a very, very difficult subject.
And we've got to have the maximum number of people absorb this because it means we can continue to reopen.
We don't have to stop.
We don't have to close down and crush our economy.
And we deal with this the way we deal with other diseases.
We try to prevent it.
And then if we think we have symptoms, we go to a doctor and a doctor will give us hydroxychloroquine and zinc and erythromycin.
In the vast majority of cases, it's going to work.
If it doesn't work, probably nothing else would have worked, and then you move on to stronger medicines.
But there can't be a guarantee that no one is going to get this disease anymore.
There can be a guarantee that no one is going to get flu, no one is going to get cancer, no one is going to get heart disease, no one is going to get diabetes.
We face all these issues.
We've got to face them proportionately.
We can't close down our society because of any or all of them.
We have to learn how to deal with them in the context of a functioning, strong economy, strong society, because when that collapses, people die for other reasons.
So I know the Democrats are trying real hard to get us back locked in again, and that we still have a couple of those governors who want to boss us around.
They showed their tendency to be a little bit dictatorial, which comes out of being a socialist, because you think you know better than everyone else.
They showed that in a pretty hard way in places like Virginia and Michigan.
The mayor of Chicago yelling and screaming at people for not being socially distanced, although not caring about the 10 to 20 that get shot every week in Chicago, and she does nothing about it.
So, Dr. Zelenko, thank you, and remember, as we move into This attempt to frighten you again, be strong, be courageous, be intelligent.
Use your reason.
Don't let them roll you.
There is a medicine to treat this.
There's more than one, but this is probably the best one.
And go, you go find a doctor that can do this for you.
And you're going to be, you're going to be in a position where you've got a very good chance to get through it.
Well, that's enough for today, and we'll be back very, very shortly with Rudy Giuliani's Common Sense.
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