We sit with longtime QAnon reporter Will Sommer of the Daily Beast to discuss Baby Q's weird cult, the rise of QAnon over the last few years, the hunt for Q's identity, and the Q-man Centipede. We also touch on the latest internal Fox News messages that reveal their eagerness to platform lies about the election even when they didn’t believe those lies themselves. Will Sommer's book is 'Trust the Plan: The Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy That Unhinged America'.
Subscribe for $5 a month to get an extra episode of QAA every week + access to ongoing series like 'Manclan' and 'Trickle Down': http://www.patreon.com/QAnonAnonymous
Will Sommer: https://twitter.com/willsommer
Will's Book 'Trust the Plan: The Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy That Unhinged America': https://www.harpercollins.com/products/trust-the-plan-will-sommer
QAA's Website: https://qanonanonymous.com
Music by Max Weber. Editing by Corey Klotz.
Welcome, listener, to Chapter 220 of the QAnon Anonymous podcast, the Rise of QAnon and Fox News Election Lies episode.
As always, we are your hosts, Jake Rokitansky, Julian Fields, and Travis View.
Once upon a time in 2018, three men in their mid-30s with stalled careers started a podcast about internet weirdos they were obsessed with.
But before then, one of the few places you could read about QAnon was through Will Summers' coverage of the phenomenon in the Daily Beast.
Five years later, he published a book about what he learned in that time, Trust the Plan, The Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy that Unhinged America.
Today, we're going to be talking to him about his experiences traveling the country, talking to QAnon influencers, attending the events, and listening to victims of the conspiracy theory.
We'll also take a detour to the world of cable news, where things are not okay.
They're in each other's DMs being shitty.
Yes, a lawsuit has revealed that Fox News hosts were eager to platform lies about the election, even when they didn't really believe those lies themselves.
So, Will, thanks again for coming on the show to talk about your book.
Hey, thanks for having me, guys.
Hello, Will.
Hey, it's good to be back, you know, with some fellow OGs of QAnon coverage.
Yeah, we're doing fine, man.
You're feeling a little silly.
This morning as Julian answered the door to his apartment to let me in so we can record, the first thing he said, he kind of looked down at the ground and rumbled and went, why do we have a podcast?
Why are we doing this?
Why do we do this?
I mean, God clearly doesn't want us to, so if he's hailing on us...
He's trying to kill me.
So if Julian has, uh, conspiracy coverage fatigue, Will, I can only imagine the torture you went through writing an entire book about this.
Will was 25 when he started writing this book.
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, that's right.
I'm in my mid-twenties.
He's 82! He's on dialysis!
He's 82.
But I'm really glad you published this book, because I was really eager to read it, because you were one of the people
who really covered these QAnon topics the longest.
And I remember when I first realized that QAnon was gaining significance in 2018, I was like, oh, holy shit, this is like a big deal.
Who's covering this?
It was basically yourself and Mike Rothschild.
And Nobody from like the major networks or like sort of the big newspapers or anything like that.
It was like this weird little fringe thing that a handful of people really cared about.
So I'm curious, what made you realize that QAnon was something that has significance and was like being part of the American political landscape in a big way?
Because, you know, we cover like extremism or internet weirdness.
There's this, there's these moral quandaries, because if you do cover it, there's this risk that you're helping amplify or making a mountain out of a molehill.
But if you don't cover it, Then there's a risk that you're allowing something significant to grow and thrive in darkness.
So, what made you realize that this was more than just a weird internet thing?
Yeah, I mean, Travis, I think that's a great point.
You know, people still to this day will say, why are you writing about QAnon?
You're only helping them.
And it's like, you know, people who are getting into QAnon, they're following like Jordan Sather and Dustin Nemos.
They're not getting the, you know, what's Will Summer got to say?
But for me, I mean, it's when stuff goes offline.
You know, the moment for me, I think, was April 2018.
There was a march in DC, and I've been covering QAnon for a few months, and a couple hundred people showed up and started chanting, where we go one, we go all.
And I thought, this is one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
Surely it won't go further than this.
And then a couple months after that, the guy blocked, you know, the bridge by the Hoover Dam with a bunch of guns and he was saying, you know, Q, what's going on?
You know, where's the IG report?
And I thought, you know, these are my internet buddies.
What is going on here?
And so that, you know, at that point, I think as weird as it is, you know, you kind of owe it to the readership and to, you know, the American public more broadly to accept that they, you know, they're big kids and they can handle knowing this freaky thing that's going on.
What was your first sort of introduction to, you know, that you saw that this thing was kind of like seeping out, uh, that even prompted you to cover it in the first place?
Because for me, it was, it was noticing that the posters in our conspiracy on Reddit were mentioning more and more and more mentioning this, this guy called Q and that there was this, uh, you know, there was this secret operation and stuff.
I mean, was it, was it more of the same for you or how did it first like come on your radar initially?
Yeah, well, initially it was cruising 4chan and seeing... Cruising's maybe not the right word, but you know, just seeing these... Yeah, you had a red handkerchief in your back pocket.
Yeah.
Cruising USA.
Yes, I mean, I'm into, I'm into groipers.
That was what it meant.
Um the the seeing these recurring threads they would have with the big lion and it would say uh you know the storm calm before the storm and then you know it's kind of one of these things where I feel like this is a lot of the way with these conspiracy theories they're kind of like in your peripheral vision and then you see them enough and you go okay what is the deal with this?
In my case, that happened, you know, after a couple months of Q sort of bubbling up.
And then, you know, once you see it and once I started seeing, you know, broader conservative influencers on Twitter just saying, you know, hashtag where we go and we go all or the storm and sort of alluding to Q, including a lot of people now who wouldn't be caught dead saying they're QAnon people, but who were just sort of casually using QAnon hashtags.
If you look on like LexisNexis back in early 2018, people who kind of got in early and, you know, It's just crazy how at every step I kept thinking, all right, this is the high watermark for QAnon.
This is it.
And then, you know, a couple years later, I was at January 6, and they had the giant Q signs and they were like, God, we got to kill Mike Pence.
Yeah, yeah.
Covering QAnon for me, at least, has always been this feeling of like waiting for the adults to intervene.
Like, okay, this is this has gone on far enough.
there's got to be somebody to step in and sort of like understand this and fix it.
But no, that just didn't work like that.
Well, you know, Travis, you might have, I think maybe I'm stealing this metaphor from you,
but I do feel like there was a feeling that people like us covering this for so long,
that the adults would arrive and I would say, "Okay, here it is!" and kind of hand it off and
say, "Okay, here's what I got on them and I'll let you handle it."
And really, that moment never happened, and it still hasn't.
Yeah, you're just standing with like, you know, a couple of legal pads, you know, filled to the brim, you know, arm outstretched, waiting, waiting for somebody to come and take them and go, thank you very much, Will, for all this work you do.
We've got it from here.
And you go, oh, great.
I can go back to my normal life.
But that happened for none of us.
Yeah.
No, we are we are locked in a Guantanamo Bay of the mind.
Yeah, they kind of won, I guess.
Well, I mean, certainly, you know, if you had said to me, even in 2019, that in 2023 Donald Trump would be posting Q pictures on Truth Social and, you know, oh, I am the storm, even then I never would have believed it.
But, you know, he's really getting into QAnon now and I think it's really only going to ramp up.
I mean, obviously he's getting ready to call Ron DeSantis a pedo and, you know, that's what we're locked in for.
I know.
He's like, yeah, no, I'm not.
I would never do anti-Italian sentiment by calling him Meatball Ron.
Anyways, he molests children.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's I mean, it always made sense to me, though, that that Trump would you know, he would always end up here because, you know, as you've seen with other sort of politicians, as they slowly, slowly fall out of mainstream favor, you know, they're getting dogged on by by cable news, you know, All you're left with is the most fervent sort of supporters and the people who believe that you are like the hero in this, you know, huge action espionage movie.
And so, you know, as you alienate everybody else, I mean, it's what also happens to your average sort of QAnon believer.
As you alienate everybody else in your life, all that's left for you waiting with open arms, ready to tell you that you're good, you're good, you're good, are, you know, the, you know, QAnon believers.
Well, you know, you think about in 2018 after all the Q people flocked to that one rally in Florida, and it sort of was a big breakout moment for QAnon, then they banned Q gear at the rallies.
And they're kind of like, look, why don't you just don't scare the suburban voters?
Just get away from the cameras.
And then now they're playing the QAnon song at the rallies and everything.
I mean, you can definitely see him warming up to them.
Yeah, you know, actually, I wanted to ask you about the Republican Party's relationship with QAnon, because you talk about some of this in the book.
Because, you know, again, early in its development, I thought that there would be like a hard limit on the degree of political sway that the QAnon community could have.
I thought that, you know, the Republican Party's tolerance for conspiracy theories wouldn't extend to the belief that a Chan poster is sending coded messages about secret military activity.
But as you point out in the book, Republicans learned to at least make space for QAnon followers.
This is dating back to the Tampa Trump rally in 2018.
You write this passage, which I thought was interesting.
QAnon's Trump rally debut was a disaster for Republicans looking to win over moderate voters.
A few days before the rally, a Florida Republican observer had complained to a local website that the increasingly visible presence of Q believers in the state meant the Florida GOP was becoming seen as the party of QAnon.
And that was before dozens of followers stole the show at a rally ostensibly meant to promote Republican candidates, not Q. For Trump allies, the smartest response to the party's newest faction had been to stay quiet.
Florida politician Ron DeSantis pioneered this response after QAnon believers crashed the Trump rally in Tampa that was meant to promote DeSantis' campaign for the governor's mansion.
A few weeks after the Tampa rally, DeSantis claimed ignorance about the Q-emblazoned rallygoers that appeared there and at many of his other events.
I'm not sure what that is.
DeSantis told a reporter.
For Republican officials, maintaining a polite distance from Q had some benefits.
It meant they wouldn't come off like lunatics to voters not already soaked in 4chan mind games.
But it also meant that Q supporters wouldn't be antagonized either.
So what do you make of, like, the way that Republican officials have, like, handled QAnon voters over the years?
Like, obviously, they, like you say, like, they have to, like, strike this really careful balance between, like, not, you know, overtly encouraging them and not alienating them.
Sure, I mean, so, you know, like I say in that passage, I mean, really, they did this thing where they said, okay, we're just gonna pretend QAnon doesn't exist, or that this is sort of a handful of nuts that, but we're not gonna say that, but, you know, that we can safely ignore.
There's a moment in the book where I talk about how Kevin McCarthy initially says, you know, oh, QAnon is obviously BS, don't worry about it, like, you know, it's just crazy stuff.
And then as QAnon gets more prominent in the party, he goes, he's asked about it later, and he says, I've never even heard of that thing.
What is it, QOwn?
You know, this is ridiculous.
So, you know, he really changes his tune.
And, you know, especially when it comes to someone like Donald Trump or someone like Michael Flynn, people who have really actively encouraged QAnon, and then have this kind of attempted plausible deniability where they say, you know, what are you even talking about?
You know, in the case of Michael Flynn, a guy holding up Q quilts at rallies and doing the where we go one, we go all slogan.
And now he says, no, that's just a slogan of family unity.
You know, these guys are, you know, I mean, it has practical effects in which QAnon believers and potential recruits see that and they say, well, you know, Donald Trump would just say this is a lie, if it is, and then they get deeper into it.
Yeah, what's really interesting is it's like, it's usually the other thing, the other way around with, with sort of, you know, popular culture trends, you know.
At first somebody will say like, oh yeah, I've like, yeah, I've never heard, I've never heard of that thing.
And then as it gets more popular and somebody asks them about it, they go, oh yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, I know what QAnon is, yeah, of course, yeah.
But this, it's like, when it was in its sort of initial stages, they're like, oh yeah, we know about that, it's nothing to worry about.
And then when it becomes, you know, massively popular, it's like, I have no idea what that is.
It's just really interesting, just like many other sort of behaviors around this phenomenon.
You find it the reverse of what the sort of logical step would be.
You have a really fascinating chapter on Austin Steinbart, who's sometimes called Baby Q. And for those who are just joining us, Austin Steinbart is an Arizona man who claims to be Q from the future.
He's one of the weirdest QAnon influencers out there.
He seemed to emerge from nowhere, but he had a lot of this financial backing that allows
him to have his own compound and this professional media studio.
Will, in your book, you publish some really fascinating reporting about his background
and the activity at "The Ranch," which is what they call his place, where he and his
most devoted followers lived.
So what's his deal, man?
This is a big deal.
What's his deal, man?
This is always confusing to me.
Yeah, you're like one of a few people, like maybe the only person I know personally, who's actually sat down and like talked to this guy.
Like, yeah, what's your sort of just general vibe about him?
It's so weird.
It's so weird.
I mean, he really is one of the, you know, I would rank him up there with Vincent Fusca as sort of one of the great, bizarre QAnon characters.
You know, I've been tracking him for a while, as I know y'all had as well, because he was so weird and, like, uniquely odd, because unlike other QAnon influencers who say, I'm interpreting Q's clues or whatever, he said, oh yeah, I'm Q, and future me is Q, and he's sending messages back in time, and so he was Baby Q. And he managed to get this compound going, even as he was flagrantly violating the law, as sort of to prove that he was above the law, so he was in this medical clinic, and he videotaped a bunch of football players brain scans for CTE and very bizarre crimes and he would do extortion against various websites and then at one point the FBI came to his door and he said oh yeah like I love doing crimes yeah I threatened to murder the Queen of Denmark and all this stuff and so as all this is happening I get a call from a woman whose sister has been sucked into the the compound and she says you know can you get my sister out and you know obviously I'm totally unqualified to do that but I think it's you
It's a sign of, you know, the desperation these families face when their relatives are sucked
into QAnon that this woman would just say, I guess, I don't know, this guy wrote the one
article about Baby Q, I guess maybe he can help. And so ultimately, I go out there and interview
him. And he was kind of on this post prison kick, where he was like now a young Republican, and he
was running a congressional campaign. He was hanging out with the CEO of overstock.com. And
he was like an official in the Arizona audit. And he gave this speech to some state senators,
it was very bizarre. And this guy who was just like, yeah, I'm Baby Q. But you know, I'm trying
to make QAnon for everyone. And you know, we're going to have this very kind of family friendly
Just a really bizarre experience, meeting his acolytes who are convinced that he's going to run the Space Force.
Not to mention that he has never backed away from his claim that he is from the future.
Okay, yeah.
Bizarre enough.
This young guy is doing weird crimes.
He's videotaping highly personal information.
While he himself is at a clinic for whatever reasons, he's starting all of these different podcasts with young millennials.
It looks like a gaming podcast, but they're talking about rabbit holes.
And on top of all of this, it's like he Claims that he's from the future and that Q is actually like a quantum operation.
It's so bizarre.
Yeah.
I think the best part is definitely being like, save me.
Will, could you, could you look into this?
And he looks into it and he, he walks away and he's like, Oh, he's wearing a fake penis.
Yes.
Well, thank you.
So, so, you know, I don't think all this made it into the book, but so at one point, you know, he's out on house arrest and he's living with, with the members of the alleged cult.
And he's not supposed to be drinking or smoking weed, and he's doing that very intensely.
And so some people in the compound start to get a little, they kind of start falling out.
And in these moments of alienation, he's supposed to have a cold storage Bitcoin worth billions of dollars on a hard drive.
And then one of these guys is like, you know, this guy in his 40s who's fallen for this, and he starts going, Wait a minute.
Austin never pays for the beer.
You know, he always makes me buy the six pack.
This guy's supposed to be a billionaire.
Wait a minute.
He starts digging into it and he gets a little suspicious.
And as best I can tell, one of them reports him to probation.
And so the cops sweep in and they find this prosthetic penis he's using to cheat drug tests.
And I report that it's a Whizinator because that's what the court records said.
And when I was hanging out with him and the gang, they were like, oh, no, it wasn't a Whizinator.
It was, you know, like the Donginator, like some other kind of fake.
That was all fake news and I said, Oh, did he not have a fake penis?
I was like, no, it was the wrong brand.
Yeah.
That's like, that's the $59.99 one.
Austin, he's got the $160 fake dong.
Uh, yeah.
The stream comes out much more realistically.
What's so funny about this.
I didn't know that about, about the, you know, that, that it was his own sort of, uh, you know, followers that, that, that dropped dime on him.
You know, similar thing kind of fucked over Hunter S. Thompson with the Hells Angels was him not buying the beer.
So yet again, you know, ladies and gentlemen, buy your beers.
Pay for the beer.
Don't go to jail.
That's just how you stay on with these kind of weird groups out in the American West.
I mean, he really, the compound, you know the story's getting good when I'm ripping YouTube videos for the future documentary.
Bizarre.
I was just kind of storing them away and the all these recriminations start and so Austin
ends up in jail and he's denouncing members from the jail pay phone and then they're saying,
you know, my buddy in the compound who I was working with, you know, was kind of keeping
me up to date on things. He's saying, you know, oh, I just I just need one more moment
with Austin to convince him that I'm not a snitch and stuff.
I mean, it was very it things really went off the rails.
Bizarre. I've never had anybody like me that much.
(laughter)
You know, that it's like, "Hey man, just one more call with J-"
Let me let me just like proved my loyalty to him.
Like, that's insane that he has such a dedicated, you know, dedicating and then also suspicious and traitorous following, I guess, as well.
Well, you know, he claimed they were setting up secret cameras to sort of record him drinking beers.
I mean, there seems to be a lot of evidence of that.
You know, I think I say this in the book that I sort of didn't get the appeal.
The raw charisma was not working on me.
Yeah.
Well, you're also, you know, I mean, you don't really believe that he's from the future.
I mean, if you believed in time travel legitimately, Will, as I do.
You know, maybe his glamoring would have, you know, worked a little bit better.
Or glimmering?
What do they call it with the vampires?
I think a glamour, yeah.
A glamour, yeah.
So I have two questions about Steinbart.
Number one, where did all of his money come from?
Because when I see his videos, he has the slickest setup, the coolest monitors.
Like, he seems like he has a lot of cash to throw around for equipment and stuff.
And number two, where are all these people who are like making content for him?
Somehow he's able to gather people who make these weird little podcasts in which, you know, they call Austin Steinbar's detractors Philistines.
Pharisees, Pharisees.
Yes, Pharisees.
Pardon me.
Pardon me.
Yes, Pharisees.
And and they seem they I don't know.
It's like, are they paid?
I keep puzzling it out.
It's like, are these people like paid actors or something?
What the hell is going on?
So, yeah, those that's those what I really want to know about this guy.
Travis that I hate to sadly I must report they are not paid actors I wish I wish yeah no they were they were you know they were living in this compound and they had they had like they rented a studio like a high-rise studio in downtown Phoenix I mean it looked they had better production values and I think some local TV stations I mean, it looked, you know, they had all these shows, there was like the Millennial Baby Q Show, where they would drink White Claws and say, you know, uh, you know, here's the tea on the Q Pharisees.
And, you know, that, it was very bizarre.
As far as where the money comes from, you know, one of these guys I was talking to, he said, oh yeah, I donated 50 grand.
So, you know, and I asked Austin, I said, is that true?
And this is the guy that he banished and said, you know, you have to break up with your fiancée because she's an agent for the NSA or something.
And I said, you know, so this guy says he gave you 50 grand?
And he said, oh yeah, yeah, I think that's about right.
Oh my god, and 50 grand wasn't enough for him to go, you know what, I'm just gonna hold back on the telling him that his wife is, or his fiance is like a, yeah, is a undercover agent.
Because maybe there's another 50 grand where that came from.
But amazing to me that maybe the guy who, you know, donated, you know, an insane amount of money, he's very quick to just banish and, you know, it's... Yeah, it's... I mean, he's not exactly careful.
The guy, that's why he ended up in jail.
Yeah, it's true.
He is insanely haphazard.
I think that's why we never really entertained the idea that it could be a full-blown cult is just because he's such a mess and he looks so young and his mannerisms just don't, he doesn't have the Keith Ranieri, he doesn't have the it thing.
Well, you know, his first video is he's wearing this backwards baseball cap.
I mean, he looks like he's going to be giving me a Call of Duty tips.
Yeah, totally.
Well, and that's what I always thought that the sort of the podcasters were because they were, you know, relatively young, attractive people.
I thought for sure I was like, OK, these are struggling actors.
You know, they they answered, you know, an open casting call.
You know, they they need the work.
They're not necessarily aware that it's tied to QAnon.
They just know they're doing some cool kind of popular culture conspiracy sort of show.
That was always what I thought, but you're saying that they're all sort of folded into his live-in believers or cult, as you said.
Yeah, I mean, they were all into it.
I mean, you know, it gets so bizarre.
I mean, you said he's not careful.
I mean, when the FBI knocks on his door, he's carrying a Desert Eagle handgun and he's like, yo, what's up?
Like, I got landmines in the yard.
I said, what?
And then they come in and they said, OK, so the issue is you've been putting out all these brain scans.
And he says, well, yeah.
Get what else I'm doing.
I smuggled drugs across the border because I can't be arrested.
And the FBI goes... And this is, you know, an African-American guy tweeted this.
I mean, he said, man, I would have been arrested immediately.
And so instead, the FBI just goes, OK, well, we'll be seeing you later.
A fucking deagle?
What?
What is going on?
Comes to the door with a deagle, says they're landmines, says I can never be arrested.
I mean...
Okay, here's a question I have for you, Will.
Based on your interaction with him and the research that you've done in your reporting and also in the book, I mean, do you think that Austin is a true believer?
Does he really believe that he comes from the future?
Or is this, like, a bit?
Or is there, you know, mental illness at play?
Well, I think there's a solid amount of mental illness or, like, some kind of just crazy personality issue.
I mean, he ends up at this brain scan clinic because his mother, according to the court records, sent him there.
I mean, you know, he heavily disagrees with that.
You know, as I say in the book, it doesn't seem to be an accident that this coincides with right around when he starts saying, I'm Q from the future.
And, you know, but he's nevertheless just sort of from the force of his personality, able to sweep up all of these sort of disaffected QAnon believers.
And, you know, I really get into the sort of the factionalism of the Q saga.
I call up Dustin Nemos to say, you know, what's the deal with Austin Steinbart?
And he says, oh, you know, that scumbag, you know, I'm fascinated by him.
Just sort of the factionalism and the idea that in QAnon everyone's always going, now that guy is making us look ridiculous.
This is a serious operation we're running.
Speaking of QAnon influencers, you talk about another once pretty big one in your book who goes by the name of NeonRevolt.
Now, NeonRevolt has a special place in my heart for a couple reasons.
Number one, he is someone who reacted to our podcast and kind of trolled us when we were just starting.
We were very excited to get the attention of people who were like promoting QAnon.
But also, he's a guy who's interesting.
Before my name was published in the Washington Post, he actually researched me and discovered my name and my backstory in an attempt to figure out if I was, like, intelligence or not.
And he wound up not publishing my name because he figured I was just a regular guy and that was who I said I was.
He had more discretion than the Post.
Yeah!
I remember that blog post, Travis, where he said, yeah, I figured out who he is.
He's got a kid.
He's pretty boring.
I'm not going to dox him.
It was very nice, I'll say that.
So I can't praise anything else he's done, but that was very nice of him.
But you learned some interesting facts about really how he came to QAnon, and how his struggles as a screenwriter sort of led him there.
I mean, he also talks about this openly in his book.
Yeah, I mean, so this is Neon Revolt.
He's kind of off the scene now.
But back in the day, I mean, he was, I would say, easily like a top five QAnon promoter.
And his book just laid out in such a fascinating way how he came to this, you know, lowly station in life.
I mean, the folks at Logically figured out his real name, and this guy's named Robert Cornero.
And essentially, he was a failed screenwriter who became convinced that Hollywood was biased against him because he was a white man.
And he moved back in with his folks in New Jersey and started, he was obsessed, he was really, he was a freezer clerk at the grocery store.
And he lost, I mean, he really, his life had hit the skids.
I mean, he lost the freezer position and was furious about it.
He had an online girlfriend in Canada whose dad made her break up with him.
And then he discovers QAnon.
And then he says, well, you know, now I can get kind of get revenge on people in Hollywood who wronged me.
And so he turns his mob on this Hollywood executive who create who's kind of a guy named Franklin Leonard, just kind of a big power player there.
And so suddenly this Franklin Leonard guy is like, wait, why is this random guy saying I'm the king pedo of Hollywood and all this?
I mean, running like a three part series on how I work for the cabal.
And so once his real identity came out, I just thought it was a fascinating way to look into the inside of a QAnon promoter sort of picking his targets and getting his personal grievances out through the movement.
I can actually relate to that on some level.
I was talking about this with Julian the other day is that, you know, I was a struggling screenwriter, you know, before, you know, before the podcast, Julian and I had a different podcast that wasn't going anywhere.
You know, I mean, people who listen to the show know my story.
You know, I started to kind of flirt with QAnon and get into that.
That's how we ended up starting the show, was trying to decipher, you know, if there was any truth to it and why were people, you know, radicalizing so quickly to this.
And I will say that there is something about the just a very difficult nature of breaking into the business that I think does Prime people for this kind of internal anger and not wanting it to be your fault because in a lot of ways it isn't.
It's, you know, a lot of it is luck, a lot of it is connections, a lot of it is who you come from, are you connected to people in the entertainment industry.
And so when I found out that this was Neon Revolt's past, you know, I can relate a little bit because, you know, I was in a very similar position.
And, you know, had I not had good friends who had good politics and were able to explain the sort of landscape of our current political situation in a way that allowed for the grievances that I had, but also offered a non-fascistic solution, I could have easily gone down that other path, and so I think that's important context to add here when talking about failed actors, failed models, failed screenwriters.
You know, we find out that a lot of these influencers came from, you know, sort of unsatisfactory careers in the entertainment industry.
You know, I think that's a great point, Jake.
As you said, I mean, you guys have talked a lot about these, you know, failed entertainers who sort of reinvent themselves as QAnon figures.
And I think in the case of Neon Revolt, you can really see where QAnon gives this guy a status that he would never have had in real life.
I mean, one notable thing I think about him is that most QAnon leaders cannot write worth anything.
I mean, and there's a reason there aren't really that many blogs about QAnon and many more YouTube shows and and what have you. And he was the only guy who could really
string together a sentence.
And so because of, you know, the screenwriting background.
And so in that way, he's able to sort of get an acclaim for his writing that he was not
in the real world.
And so much of, especially in the early days of QAnon, when it really was less about the
satanic panic and less sort of religion, you know, less, less religious vibes, less, you
know, it felt more, it was more in that sort of Tom Clancy behind the scenes sort of espionage
novel. I mean, that's something that a, you know, an aspiring screenwriter can really
There's a lot there, and it makes sense to me that instead of making YouTube videos, instead of trying to, you know, be an on-screen personality, he went to the thing that he believed was his strength, was this writing.
And it became very popular.
Yeah, he even ended up writing a sequel to Human Centipede.
He did, that's true!
That's true?
Yeah, he called it the Q-Man Centipede.
Well, what he did was, you know this, Will, he made an image of all the QAnon reporters, like myself, And Mike Rothschild and you, and I think Alex at Media Matters was also there, sort of like, tied together, Human Centipede style.
Honestly, like, the nicest, like, most mild-mannered, like, people in the business, which is so funny.
You couldn't find two nicer guys than Will and Travis.
Yeah, but that's who ends up in the Human Centipede.
The nice guys end up there.
I did not make it there because he's like, no, of course that guy, that guy has too much gumption to get his lips sewn to someone's asshole.
On a recent episode, we discussed the film Plandemic 3 by Mickey Willis, which is of course the second sequel to the mega viral anti-vaccine film, Plandemic.
Now, I don't know how many people know this, but the QAnon community was essential to making that film as successful as it was.
So how did that happen?
Sure, I mean, so, Plandemic was, you know, cooked up by, as you say, Mickey Willis, who's sort of a crunchy, alternative wellness, kind of conspiracy theory guy in California, who, of course, hooks up with Judy Mikovits, a doctor with plenty of axes to grind against Anthony Fauci, in sort of a one-sided feud.
But really, QAnon is what blew that up and made it so much bigger than really than
just the QAnon community. This guy named Zach Voorhees, who was a James O'Keefe whistleblower,
I believe at Google, who actually wrote a story quickly after he emerged as a whistleblower
about all his QAnon beliefs.
He was spreading the word among QAnon communities on Facebook saying, "Oh man, you know, this
video is cooking. We got to make this huge." And then, you know, people after a pandemic
exploded and really was sort of a foundational document of the kind of counter narrative
to the coronavirus science.
You know, people look back at it and say, yeah, I mean, these kind of hyper connected QAnon communities online were what exploded this and made this such a kind of a viral phenomenon.
Well, and that makes sense, right?
Because QAnon, you know, at least from my perspective, they're waiting for a big event.
You know, they don't necessarily know what it is, but they're told that some big event is going to take place.
There's going to be some kind of international or national conversation.
And COVID, you know, was a big event.
It was a serious change.
There were, you know, our way of life was interrupted and there were all sorts of new Rules and precautions, and there was information coming out so fast that sometimes people would get stuff wrong or, you know, information would change, practices would change.
And so if you're already in this mindset, waiting for some kind of, you know, event to happen, and then you're faced with COVID, it's really easy, I think, to make that jump and go, this is, okay, well, this is part of something.
Not exactly sure what, but I've been waiting for this.
It's like in, uh, you know, it's like Rick Moranis in Ghostbusters, you know, running around, running around the city, you know, we're waiting for the sun, you know, have you seen the key master?
You know, they're like waiting for this big thing.
And I think that COVID was, you you know, became that. And so, of course, there was going
to be content and alternate explanations thrown around as to what was really happening. Because even
for somebody who's not a conspiracy theorist, something like a pandemic that we never ever
thought that we were going to have to experience in our lifetime all of a sudden happens and it's
real and it's affecting your life. I mean, that it's hard to grapple with. Absolutely.
I mean, you know, the pandemic was just huge for QAnon.
You know, people have all this time online.
There was really weird stuff happening in the world that, you know, it was not, oh, I think there's like a weird light off the coast.
Maybe they tried to shoot down Air Force One.
I mean, these things that you could ignore.
I mean, instead, in the case of the pandemic, I mean, it's something everyone had to grapple with.
And You know, I think for a lot of people, QAnon offered a chance to have some sort of control because, you know, it wasn't about like weird trades in China or something going down over there and somehow now you're out of a job.
But it was, you know, here are five guys that we can blame for this.
Yeah.
You also discuss attending Clay Clark's Health and Freedom Conference back in the spring of 2021.
So, I mean, the way you describe it seems as though the crowd was hoping to hear more QAnon messages than were actually delivered.
So what did you learn during that trip?
Sure, so, Clay Clark, you know, I have to say, I think I was maybe right on the ground floor of the Reawaken America tour, which now has swept America and, you know, been accused as the site of an anthrax attack, when in fact everyone just got COVID.
So yeah, I traveled out there to Tulsa in 2021.
They said they were going to have heavy security to keep out media and Antifa, but I managed to get in.
And it was so obvious that everyone was just really primed for QAnon.
I mean, they had a bunch of QAnon influencers, and this is where Jim Caviezel gets up and he says, you know, I gotta tell y'all about Adrenochrome.
And everyone goes, ah!
And then Lin Wood just gives them a barn burner.
This is before Lin Wood really went off the rails.
And he said, you know, they're abusing children.
Tell it to George Soros.
Tell the House of Windsor we're coming for them.
And people were just on their feet losing it.
Yeah, because it's one thing to hear it from, you know, anonymous internet source and to discuss it in various, you know, internet quote-unquote research groups.
But when you have a huge celebrity like Jim Caviezel, especially in this crowd, because this guy played Jesus, you know, and you've got Lin Wood and they're on a stage.
You know, it's not coming out of your computer anymore.
It's on a stage.
These are people of authority that are echoing this thing that you have believed in for, you know, a year or two years at this point.
I mean, it's a much different vibe.
It's a validation and, you know, it makes perfect sense why, you know, bringing it off of the computer, you know, was so effective.
I mean, it was thousands of people and they were just, I mean, really, they were about to, they were ready to, like, roll out.
If Lin Wood had said, you know, okay, let's go get them, you know, they would have done it.
Next Sunday at the Royal Rumble, the House of Windsor is going down.
They're gonna feel the pain.
Well, and I mean, in all seriousness, what you're describing, when you look at January 6th through that angle, it makes a lot more sense.
If you have a group of people that is just foaming at the mouth and ready to do anything, to do something, to wait for, you know, the people that they trust and their authority figures and people that they just like, you know, waiting for instructions, you know.
There gets to a point where you can only trust the plan for so long, and I think that that is, you know, for all of us who've been researching this for so long, I think that, you know, that's a weird part to see, is that shift from trusting the plan to, you know, we are the plan.
Oh, chill.
I mean, you know, when you tell people, you know, the most powerful people in the world are doing these heinous crimes to children and no one's going to do anything about it.
The cops don't care, etc.
Maybe they're in on it.
And so suddenly it's, you know, someone's going to believe that.
And then maybe it's not such a surprise that someone busts into Comet Ping Pong with a gun or, you know, murders a mafia boss or all these different things that kind of go haywire when people really believe in it.
I mean, you have these other, like, weird details.
Stuff like, uh, Bill Gates's company, uh, has been doing, uh, vaccine research for, for, you know, over a decade.
And they had run trial, you know, sort of like, uh, uh, practice events to prepare for a plandemic.
You know, things that, you know, when you're, when you don't have a conspiracy, you know, sort of outlook of the world, you go, oh yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, he's in tech.
Yeah.
He's in, you know, the health industry.
You know, he's involved in all of that.
Sure, it would make sense that they would run a drill for, you know, something like this.
I mean, this isn't the first time that we've had, like, really powerful viruses out in the world.
You know, there was, you know, swine flu and the bird flu and all of this stuff.
It makes sense that they would be running drills for this.
But when you're told that Bill Gates is one of the main enemies and then you find out this information, you go, oh, well, it all makes sense, you know?
Yeah.
I like that you just called it the Plandemic.
Our brains are so cooked.
What did I... I said Plandemic?
Yeah, you said that like Bill Gates, they did a simulated Plandemic.
Well, I mean, in that... I mean, if you're looking... That is what the people believe.
Yeah, they were like...
I mean it is very funny when you watch it because it has super high production values and they are very, you know, once you've experienced the pandemic you go back and you look at that stuff and it does seem like they're talking exactly about the situation we came to be in.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's sort of once you have this, you know, and throughout the book, I talk about this, like, once you have this kind of conspiratorial mindset, or that lens over everything you see, I mean, suddenly, you know, stuff starts popping off everywhere.
And you know, the world makes sense in kind of a twisted way.
versus your own belief because now all of a sudden these things that didn't make sense
before are making sense and you believe that that's because you have insider information
and you understand it better than maybe your neighbor or your brother or your spouse or
all this stuff.
So it is this kind of self-validating theory that it's not going to steer you away from
conspiracy theories.
It's going to push you deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole.
Yeah, I mean, it seems like a lot of fun for a while, honestly.
I mean, you know the idea that, you know, I think a lot about this interview someone did with some QAnon people who said, like, you know, I get the news before everyone else, or, you know, I understand what's going on in the world.
So, you know, your neighbor says, oh, you see that Chinese balloon?
You go, what a simpleton, doesn't he know?
Yeah, doesn't he know?
Ha ha ha.
And you feel good because life right now is, you know, it's hard to decipher.
Some things seem unexplainable.
Some things just don't make sense.
I think that's the uncomfortable reality that we live in.
It makes zero sense.
None of this makes sense!
And so to have that little piece that goes, well, I actually do know what's going on, you know, that's a good feeling for a lot of people.
I want that.
I don't have that anymore.
I used to.
Nothing's fun anymore.
Yeah, we kind of ruined it for you.
I used to love conspiracy theories.
I was going to say, Jake, I mean, yeah, you know how fun it can be.
Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to put myself back in the headspace that I was in, you know, towards the end of 2017 into 2018.
And yeah, I mean, that really is what it was, was this idea that I had this idea You had secret knowledge about Hillary's arrest.
I had secret knowledge, and I was finding, whether it was through self-fulfilling prophecy or not, that my conspiratorial mindset had me more prepared than the next person.
A perfect example is, I was working with this woman, and we were writing a script together, and this was kind of in the rumblings of the beginning of COVID.
This was like towards the end of 2019 going into sort of like January of 2020, and I Is that right?
Is that when March of 2020 was like the first lockdowns, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So, and she kind of offhandedly said, you know, I spoke to, yeah, I have a friend who works at NASA and she told me not to get on a plane.
And I took that information.
I went, well, if somebody at NASA is, you know, saying not to get on a plane, they must know something that we don't.
And so me and my, uh, you know, fiance at the time, uh, went to Target and we were the people that had all the, you know, we had loading up on toilet paper, a big bucket of, uh, hand sanitizer.
And this was way before people rushed the, the grocery stores and the department stores to, you know, stock up on supplies.
And so then when that, when, when that first lockdown hit and we were stocked, I went, wow, my conspiratorial mindset is what left us prepared.
Yeah.
Little did you know at the time that, like, a couple years from then, you would basically gladly trade catching corona just to go watch a band like Pup.
Yeah, well, hey, we all get broke down, and I'll tell you this.
If any members of the band Pup are listening, it was fucking worth it.
It was worth it.
That is one of the best shows I have ever seen in my life.
Travis is going to have to do, like, two or three more, like, coronavirus conspiracy theory episodes to compensate for what you just did.
That ramp that I just did is just gonna be filled with bleeps, like, the members of BOOP, if you're listening, that was the BOOP show, I BOOP!
Alright, Travis, get us back on track.
Will you devote an early chapter of your book to the question of who is behind the QAnon persona, which appeared on 4chan, 8chan, and later on 8kun after 8chan went offline?
Now, we've of course talked a lot about this on the show, and the question was thoroughly explored on Cullen Hoback's docuseries Q Into the Storm.
And what's kind of emerged from everyone's investigations is what I call the conventional theory of QAnon's persona.
This posits that Q was possibly started by some trolls or LARPers on 4chan.
It was later picked up and controlled by Paul Ferber, and then when Q moved to 8chan, it was hijacked or taken over by Ron and or Jim Watkins, who was the admin and owner of 8chan.
Now, I should note that Ferber and both Ron and Jim Watkins have all denied being Q. In fact, Jim Watkins denied being Q when he was deposed by Congress.
And, you know, even if that whole story is correct, I kind of doubt it's the whole story.
I mean, there's still, like, there's still the question of, like, for example, who wrote all of those Q-drops?
There are over 4,000 of them.
Obviously, they didn't write all of them, I don't think.
And there's also the question of, like, the people who promoted QAnon off the chans, you know, Tracy Diaz, who is, you know, one of the first QTubers and that sort of thing.
Patriot soapbox, entities like that.
Pamphlet!
All these classic characters.
Yes, pamphlet anon.
Yeah.
So, but for like, for people who are like constrained by journalistic standards of evidence, that's the basic sort of like outline of like, you know, the theory that people have landed on.
So what was your experience like attempting to like unmask Hugh, which is, you know, kind of a rabbit hole in itself?
Yeah, I mean, so before, in 2018, I made my kind of first stab at trying to figure out who was behind Q, and I went through a lot of the, you know, the evidence that Pamphlet Anon was running it, that, you know, there would be these videos where he would appear to be logged into the Q account and these kind of things.
And honestly, I went nuts.
I took a couple days, you know, I didn't go to the office for a couple days.
I just kind of like started laying it all out in my living room.
And my wife came home and I was just like, don't you see like follow the money?
You know, it all makes sense.
But ultimately, you know, I couldn't I couldn't nail it down.
And you know, I think the the Colin Hoback thing laid out, you know, in the book, I'd say it's pretty much, you know, I think the most compelling evidence we have, although, as you say, I mean, kind of the key players all deny it.
You know, I sort of wish, hearing you recount this, I wish someone would kind of cook up a new one that was a little more, that was equally as compelling.
Because, you know, I think it's time to kind of freshen up the backstory there.
You know, it was tempting to kind of find my own cue for the book and kind of make my own counter-argument.
But as you say, I mean, when you actually have to stick with what's out there and what's provable, I think that's the strongest stuff.
But it really, you can get lost.
You kind of, I kind of had my own kind of cue-like moment obsessing over that.
Yes, many unnamed people have been lost.
It's almost like a smaller version of the pro-Q conspiracy theories are the anti-Q conspiracy theories, which, you know, obviously we're not going to get into, but it is fascinating that I think everybody was essentially waiting to put together a conspiracy theory.
People are hungry for this and, you know, that That kind of demand on the market has like, you know, obviously many people have set up stand and started offering product.
And often it's, you know, it's people who are kind of doing retreads of stuff everyone else has already discarded, where it's like, yes, I understand that story.
You know, we kind of went through it and it doesn't hold up.
Yeah.
And a lot of people don't know, understand what goes on behind the scenes, especially if you work for a journalistic outlet that has all sorts of resources, you know, at your disposal.
Fact checkers and, you know, the proper education to go through and sift out, you know, what is real evidence and what is circumstantial.
But my question for you is maybe kind of a personal one.
When you found yourself kind of You know, like you said, you had, you know, papers strewn out all over.
I mean, I imagine your wife comes home to the, you know, the always sunny in Philadelphia meme of you standing in front of a cork board going, look, look, babe, don't you see who it is?
You know, what, what was it that allowed you to kind of step back from, from that and, and sort of, you know, refocus and kind of, kind of admit to yourself that, that you were sort of becoming the thing that you were studying.
Well, I mean, I totally felt that desire to, you know, make that leap where it's like, it's almost there and, you know, I could probably do it and get away with it, you know, just say this guy's a Q. You know, I mentioned in the early days of QAnon, there were these videos floating around where people would, all these people with names like, you know, UltimateHackerX or whatever, would sort of purport to have these videos showing various figures logged in as Q. But it wasn't quite there.
And, you know, I would say, OK, well, where I, you know, you don't quite have it.
And they would say, oh, just watch the video again.
And I think there's a temptation to say, all right, good enough.
I'll run with that.
Um, you know, the, the readers of the Daily Beast will not be able to suss out the differences between all these different people named like Defango and whatever.
Sure.
But, but the, but you know, ultimately you do have to, you know, it's, I sort of had to admit defeat, uh, and say, okay, you know, maybe someday the, the information will emerge or someday someone who's a part of this collective or this discord group will leak the chats and we'll have it all nailed down.
And, you know, ultimately, I think Colin and his show got as close as anyone has.
And, you know, sometimes you just have to admit you didn't bake the breadcrumbs quite right.
Yeah.
And that's OK.
Look, guys, if you put a loaf in the oven and it comes out burnt or crusty or crumbly.
You don't have to eat it.
You try.
Yeah.
You try to put a little bit of butter on it.
It just it disintegrates under the knife.
It's OK.
It's OK to toss that loaf.
You know, you don't need to put it in a bag, put it in the freezer.
You know, when you take it out of the freezer two months from now, it's not going to be better bread.
When you reheat it, it's still going to be shit.
And that's OK.
While we have you here, I'd also like to talk to you about the recent revelations about Fox News that came from the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit.
So text messages and testimony from some of the biggest stars, the most senior executives at Fox News.
Revealed that they privately expressed disbelief about Trump's false claims about the 2020 election being stolen, even though the network continued to promote many of those lies on air.
The network hosts were especially shocked by claims by QAnon promoting lawyer Sidney Powell.
For example, there was this exchange between Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingram.
So, tell you what, Jake, can you play Tucker Carlson and Julian be Laura Ingram?
Sure!
I'll do my most annoying voice that I can do.
So that's crazy stuff.
Sidney Powell is lying, by the way.
I caught her.
It's insane.
Sidney is a complete nut.
No one will work with her.
Ditto with Rudy.
Our viewers are good people and they believe it.
But, Will, what do you think this reveals about, like, the inner workings of Fox News?
Oh man, I mean, I think this filing really, you know, it's like the biggest reporting on Fox News, you know, even though it's not really reporting, in maybe a decade.
It just shows us, you know, what was obvious to a lot of observers and what we suspected, which is this is a totally cynical operation saying, okay, we need to kind of walk the line between setting off a libel lawsuit, but keeping our viewers entertained and tuned in and sort of convinced that the world is all against them.
But then behind the scenes you have, I mean, just Tucker texting Hannity and Ingram being like, ah, fuck!
Or saying that, you know, Trump is the demonic force who wants to destroy me.
You know, I mean, these guys are going just absolutely flipping out.
And, as you say, behind the scenes saying, you know, Sidney Powell's just full of it, but I guess we have to keep her on, or she's gonna go to Newsmax.
Or saying, like, Maria Bartiromo is just off the reservation.
She's going nuts.
It's very insightful, and the good news is that there's more to come.
I think we're going to get more filings.
The dates keep changing, but by the end of the month, and then some more in early March.
It's just wild to me that Fox hasn't settled this.
I know it's a huge amount of money.
It's over a billion dollars, but in previous cases, like the Seth Rich case, they did settle it to avoid getting deposed.
This one is going on so far that it's just really giving us such a fascinating insight into how they run things over there.
Well, and what's so interesting to me is that, you know, they could probably have said, you know, hey, these claims are, you know, there's really nothing.
There's really nothing to them.
And hey, that's our duty to, you know, because we we value you, the viewer, and then move right on to something else that could keep their viewers engaged.
Any of the, you know, the wedge topics, gun control.
Yeah, but they were going to get they were going to get outflanked by Newsmax.
And I remember this this period because a lot of Q people started saying Fox Like they would include Fox in their like fake news, fake news CNN.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like suddenly Fox had a target on its back because it wouldn't essentially carry water for this thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, they're saying in these messages, you know, they're saying, oh God, Newsmax did a million last night.
Grant Stinchfield, whoever the hell that is, you know, he's kicking our asses.
And that must've, that must've, you know, just chuffed them so bad because you look at Newsmax and it looks like the, um, like the news station in like Grand Theft Auto 5.
Like, just like a completely like, um, fake or, you know, or a B movie, you know, when they open it with the newscast, they always do that.
And it just looks like the moniker or the, the chyron is, I've learned the right word.
I learned the word.
It's a chyron.
Thank you to Cousin Josh who texted me that after listening to the episode where I got it wrong.
you know, it's like, God, that must have sucked. Cause like Newsmax, listen, look at the name
Newsmax. It sounds like a fake operation. And they're like, Oh my God, they're doing millions.
The, you know, I think when, when you sort of view yourself as, as the number one, you know,
your Kleenex or whatever, and all of a sudden, you know, puffs is, you know, doing good numbers
during, during allergy season, you know, you're worried.
That is a very, very strange choice, but yeah.
It's just kind of what came.
It's cold outside.
I got a little bit of a sniffle.
I'm thinking about tissues.
The famous corporate war that we all know between Puffs and Kleenex.
They might even be the same brand.
I'm not sure.
I couldn't think of the number two Kleenex brand.
Anyways, carry on.
What is Q?
Who is Q?
Not interesting to me.
How does Jake's brain work?
That is the real question of our era.
Yeah, another thing that the lawsuit revealed, and I thought this was interesting, is that Fox News hosts think that fact-checking will cost them money.
There was a message from Tucker Carlson that pointed to a tweet in which a Fox reporter, that's Jackie Heinrich, fact-checked a tweet from Trump referring to Fox broadcasts.
It said that there was no evidence of voter fraud from Dominion.
Tucker Carlson said this about the reporter.
Please get her fired.
It needs to stop immediately, like, tonight.
It's measurably hurting the company.
The stock price is down.
Not a joke.
And then Heinrich deleted her tweet by the next morning.
Absolute insanity.
I know that, I know it's like, it's like kind of a weird cliche thing to say, like, like Fox News.
It's not a news organization.
But when literally fact-checking is discouraged in the fact it might cost you your job, then obviously it's not like a real news organization.
You have Tucker Carlson freaking out over this reporter doing the most milquetoast like, fact check, election not stolen.
And it's just like, oh, no, shut up.
And then also in the document, you have Rupert Murdoch saying, look, I know the election stuff screwed up.
For now, we just got to focus on electing Republicans in Georgia.
I mean, just really just laying it out there.
I mean, it does, it does seem like if you were to do like a parody of like how you imagine like Fox hosts and executives talk about it, it's like, who cares about what's true?
Let's get Republicans elected!
But like all that's kind of a cheesy, you know, skit you might see on like, like late night TV or something, but like it basically actually happened.
And this is, like, exactly what the QAnon believers think is happening, like, behind closed doors at CNN.
You know what I mean?
That, you know, some overbearing, uh, sort of, like, editor-in-chief is like, nah, screw the truth.
We're running with this.
This is what we're running with.
You know?
It's like, well...
Yeah, some guy, you know, I was tweeting about this and some guy was just like, oh, whatever.
I'm sure worse goes down at CNN.
And then I looked him up and he works at the Epoch Times.
I was like, well, what the hell?
Stay out of my mentions.
Oh, goddamn.
What a stupid world we all live in now.
More so than the folks that don't have to think about this kind of stuff every day.
How's your mental health after writing the book, Will?
Yeah, well, you know, I mean, it really was such a crazy journey, and I have been hearing from so many people who were sort of meaning to check out this QAnon thing, but then they look into it and they read the book and they're like, damn, this is pretty crazy.
Is this for real?
Yeah, yeah.
That's the number one question I get from people in my personal life who, once they find out that I do this, they go, people really believe in that?
I don't get it.
I don't understand.
I'm sure you all run into this all the time.
I mean, in the lead up to this, I was saying to people, or people would ask my wife, what's your husband do?
And she'd say, he's writing a book about QAnon.
And then you have to say, it's an anti-QAnon book, to be clear.
Yeah, when old friends check in on me randomly, and they'll be like, so how's it going, man?
What's going on?
You still work in entertainment?
I'm like, well...
Certain things have transpired.
Yeah.
I have like a whole, I'm sure you do too.
Like I have a whole speech to be like, well, yeah, I'm tracking like online radicalization through conspiracy theories and why, you know, why this happens.
And then they're like, what's the podcast called?
I'm like, QAnon Anonymous, but it's like anti-Q, but like, but we're, but we try to approach it with compassion.
Like there's just so many qualifiers because it is such a bizarre and nuanced and layered movement.
It's, yeah, it's really tough.
So, I mean, kudos to you for taking all of the research and, you know, embarking on the journey to try to put it in a book that somebody who isn't necessarily in, you know, in the weeds like we are can pick up and understand, you know, sort of the broad as well as sort of more nuanced and specific strokes of what really took place over the last, like, four years, five years, seven years.
I don't know.
How long?
It's been a while.
Too long.
Yeah.
That book again is Trust the Plan, the Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy that Unhinged America.
And we just scratched the surface of the fascinating stuff that's in it, so pick it up.
Will, thanks again for coming on the show.
Hey, thanks so much, guys.
It's always fun to be on.
Always a pleasure to have you, man.
Thanks, Will.
Thanks for listening to another episode of the QAnon Anonymous podcast.
You can go to patreon.com slash QAnon Anonymous and sub for five bucks a month to get a whole second episode for every main one, plus access to our entire archive of premium episodes.
There's more than 200 of them and ongoing series like Man Clan, previous series like Trickle Down, and of course, future series.
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For everything else, we've got a website, QAnonAnonymous.com.
Listener, until next week, may the Deep Dish bless you and keep you.
It's not a conspiracy.
It's a fact.
And now, today's Auto-Q.
Can't we just, like, build a little army lawful to just go to the monarchy and grab these monarchs and throw them on their face and throw them in handcuffs and just get them off the streets?
I actually plan on, and I'll show you this clip as I wrap it up here, but I'm trying to go around to these BLM-minded folks.
I have situations where we're going to go talk to some crimson bloods in South Central LA where they could tell us stories about the CIA drug dealing back in the day.
I'm trying to persuade the black media in Vegas and in LA to back our play here.
And if we do that, That creates this ripple effect around the world, and now all of these African refugees that they just let into Europe, now all of those African refugees are foot soldiers for the revolution, who are... Maybe, again, we're not going to tell them to go do anything crazy, but of course we can't be responsible if they hear the truth and they're very upset by that.
